The Accidental Tech Podcast

136: War and Peace


  I'm glad hand is perfect doesn't even take premium fuel yes it was about to [TS]

  bring the iPhones into the crescent moon problem and the various experiences [TS]

  people had and what the Apple Jesus asked them to do their phone and what [TS]

  happened to the phone when it was taken into the back room and all sorts of [TS]

  stuff like that so one theme was some people are super angry that we don't [TS]

  know the stuff I hear you talk about genius stuff that you don't know about [TS]

  it like yeah we we don't know and then people you know plenty of people tell us [TS]

  like without that kind of the show works like we've had wonder what does happen [TS]

  in the back room and then a bunch of algae is anonymous the email us back to [TS]

  those one team and by the way I can relate to that like when you when you [TS]

  hear people talking about stuff on the podcast and you know the answer but no [TS]

  one on the show knows the answer you know because you're an apple juice and a [TS]

  former Apple Genius and you have to be able to get this wonderful like we all [TS]

  of us offered at various ideas of what it could be a whatever so I can be [TS]

  frustrating that's also part of the fun of getting the second team that I saw [TS]

  emerged from the very large volume of feedback we got from Apple Genius is [TS]

  accessible geniuses are people who are Apple Genius adjacent like a caged about [TS]

  what they're you know jobs are known to be anonymous for the most part was that [TS]

  things are actually slightly different from Apple Store Doublestar regard you [TS]

  know email from geniuses in different countries in different states in the [TS]

  United States and they all describe what their store does and there is a [TS]

  commonality like we'll get to that we get the answers there is an answer to [TS]

  all of our questions last time but some stories we like our store tends to do [TS]

  this [TS]

  except there occasionally we do that our star always does this and doesn't like [TS]

  subtle differences in policy that I assume there are like may be at the [TS]

  discretion of the [TS]

  the store manager or just kind of like what they tend to do other people [TS]

  delving into details of how the geniuses are rated by their managers based on [TS]

  certain metrics that have to do with how they choose to discretionary things [TS]

  anyway I was surprised at the variety and how much things can vary from store [TS]

  to store and these are not things that the people writing in presented as [TS]

  things that might vary the only way we discovered that they've areas by the [TS]

  sheer volume of feedback and you know like these five people said they always [TS]

  do this and these four people so they always do something slightly different [TS]

  and all those people are not presenting as a thing that they think berries I [TS]

  think like Apple stores do this but they actually do very surprising about that [TS]

  kind of matches up with you know the experience even just you two had in [TS]

  terms of every night at the end of the day in the stores gonna close maybe [TS]

  they'll give me a replacement phone instead of trying to repair or just have [TS]

  me come out the next day or you know or if you you know if you have a high with [TS]

  nine or be done at the machine can replace his alleged that like lots of [TS]

  lots of variations from [TS]

  we're not really interesting images and variations find it interesting that [TS]

  there is apparently so much discretion from one side or the other but the [TS]

  common stuff is what we're doing and try to get to the feedback so you can try [TS]

  summarizing the answers to all of our questions you might let me take a stab [TS]

  at this very quickly so the general theme seems to be that the reason that a [TS]

  genius we'll ask you to turn off Find My iPhone there's a couple of reasons [TS]

  actual number one it's to prove that that is your regular phone and you [TS]

  haven't stolen the phone and you know claimed that something is broken or [TS]

  perhaps something is broken and you're trying to get a perfectly functional [TS]

  phone out of the deal so the most obvious answer was we want you to prove [TS]

  that it's indeed yours subsequent to that if they comes that they need to [TS]

  replace the phone according to the geniuses if i understood him correctly [TS]

  they [TS]

  the activation lock is tied in some way shape or form to Find My iPhone and so [TS]

  if they screw something up or something is just fundamentally broken and they [TS]

  need to give you a new phone they're going to want to recycle or [TS]

  remanufactured the word I heard use the lottery manufacture [TS]

  the the phone that you've just given up and they can't do that unless my phone [TS]

  is off because they have no back door to this I think that that summer is [TS]

  accurate [TS]

  most common reason we are inside it was provided ship for a reason because [TS]

  apparently people bring in stolen phones in going through this whole thing like [TS]

  intentionally breaking part of like opening it up and and disconnecting the [TS]

  home button and bringing in single the home button doesn't work like with [TS]

  stolen phones is apparently very common thing so that is the the primary reason [TS]

  is you're proving you're on the phone and then the other reasons I'm still a [TS]

  little bit fuzzy on but we got a lot of what you summarizes the common answer [TS]

  think right so that's the fun my from portion now the passcode was interesting [TS]

  I didn't realize the the the order of operations that happens once my phone [TS]

  disappeared to get crescent moon unlocked repaired so apparently what [TS]

  happens is they go to the back room and they use this little thing that has [TS]

  suction cups on it to heal apart the phone once they removed the couple of [TS]

  screws that are on the bottom of it then they replace the screen with the screen [TS]

  is the touch I D sensor and a bunch of other things I don't remember the list [TS]

  off the top of my head but the key is then they put it into this big black [TS]

  calibration machine and they are not allowed or told anyway not to give you [TS]

  your phone back unless you pass calibration and apparently the way you [TS]

  pass calibration is among other things they put in app on your phone [TS]

  temporarily that interacts with calibration machine in order to [TS]

  calibrate the screen and make sure the screen is working now this is important [TS]

  because they can't put this app on your phone or do any of those other things [TS]

  without you having either given them your passcode or just taken off the [TS]

  passcode so they run this thing through they run your phone service coverage [TS]

  machine just make sure everything's functional and if it passes calibration [TS]

  you get your phone back that has a new screen you touch idea etcetera if it [TS]

  doesn't pass calibration then they'll just hand you a new phone and say be on [TS]

  your way [TS]

  one person said that we also provide customers to decline giving us the best [TS]

  go with the expectation that will perform this functionality check with [TS]

  the customer [TS]

  some of the geniuses who said they said that they contrasted the machine more [TS]

  than like check [TS]

  functionality with the people I would trust the machine like to especially [TS]

  first screen calibration type stuff on that is not clear to me whether that can [TS]

  work with the passcode to offer not I think there's any way you would think [TS]

  that we've been on this now but there are subtle differences between all the [TS]

  feedback that we got and you can tell the subtle differences are significant [TS]

  differences in phrasing or whatever but bottom line and the passcode is they [TS]

  want to make sure that if they change something that phone that all the stuff [TS]

  that supposed to work still works and the other than just wanted to clarify [TS]

  little bit is when I said an appt with the calibration machine I mean I may [TS]

  have the details little wrong about that I think we've heard talk of a custom ROM [TS]

  firmware we've heard talks a talk from the feedback that it was a nap the point [TS]

  just being that something happens on your phone that interacts with this [TS]

  machine in order to make sure everything works right there anything else on the [TS]

  repair things I don't have anything else I feel like all we've done is initiated [TS]

  another torrent of geniuses which is fine but this one we can say right now [TS]

  we're not going to talk about this anymore so please you don't have to even [TS]

  email us about it we're done with this topic please for the love of God well I [TS]

  mean I don't think there's anything more productive to get out of it because we [TS]

  wandered like why they why they want you to have my phone that I think we got a [TS]

  solid answer and that you know it to prove you own it and then the passcode [TS]

  stuff and the other things and when you get a new phone and when you get a [TS]

  replacement although the stuff I've got another meeting to understand what [TS]

  they're doing [TS]

  I don't think we implied it was anything sinister going i think im just wondering [TS]

  and I don't think there's anything sinister going on so I think we're all [TS]

  satisfied that front Marco still wants the ability to you know there is one [TS]

  person said they had basically the ability to test everything without [TS]

  anyone like you or your thing with basket but anyway that's a clarification [TS]

  that I think I probably won't be able to help you I totally withdraw my argument [TS]

  just because i dont wanna get an email about it I'm so done with this topic [TS]

  just one just wanted to say thank you to the geniuses did write it as much as [TS]

  we're joking I I for one and I think I speak for at least John [TS]

  appreciated hearing all of this and i knows a lot of you and I'm not trying to [TS]

  be funny I know a lot of you probably felt like that was a risky thing to [TS]

  write into it to us and share any sort of information so I speak for all of us [TS]

  even those who are those of us who are grumbling in saying thank you for what [TS]

  you've already written but I agree I think we've got the just now so thank [TS]

  you [TS]

  alright mocha what would you like to talk about anything else so quickly [TS]

  very fast for this is how you to follow guys very fast follow-up last episode we [TS]

  talked about the lifeboat mode in the 60 S III said that it was most likely [TS]

  dumping the entire sensor at 12 megapixels in a very fast bursts make [TS]

  those videos you can see in John Gruber's review you should read it that [TS]

  the resolution is substantially lower than that is not dumping at 12 [TS]

  megapixels for the video it's basically taking a lower resolution video at like [TS]

  1440 buy something and it's it's one of those things like it looks fine on the [TS]

  phone I wouldn't even say it looks good on the phone looks fine the phone on any [TS]

  more inspections and that any larger viewing or any clothes you and it does [TS]

  not look very good but it looks good enough on the phone doesn't look good it [TS]

  is very weird creature i I think it's cool I think it's it's an interesting [TS]

  idea but the quality is is you know not amazing and you know it's it's not going [TS]

  to be for preserving things in in high-def it's gonna be for like a haha [TS]

  funny look at this moment surrounding surrounding kind of things if you want [TS]

  to actually have video of something just shoot video it'll looks way better when [TS]

  it's in video mode one way or another I am really really excited and amped see [TS]

  this because I really think this could be extremely cool a lot of times when [TS]

  I'm taking pictures with either by phone or my big camera I really wish I had [TS]

  either context or even just a crappy still from a half second before I [TS]

  actually hit the shutter [TS]

  and I'm really really excited to see this I think it should be really cool [TS]

  now I may end up that I get my iPhone success which by the way is in [TS]

  Louisville not that I've been looking I will get my iPhone success try and think [TS]

  it's crap but I know I'm really excited for it and I am in it just occurred to [TS]

  me I'm not saying that just because I want to sound enthusiastic about [TS]

  something i genuinely am enthusiastic and excited about this [TS]

  yeah I'm most excited reading on this your views on everything I'm most [TS]

  excited about 3d touch honestly and also the the performance increase was WAY [TS]

  bigger than I expected [TS]

  get my goodness I think they talked about it when you see it in the keynoter [TS]

  special event every year they say now it's even know it's [TS]

  percent faster eighty percent of the usually eat a lot of times they they [TS]

  carry pick that metric to be like the maximum than in reality it's me only 30% [TS]

  faster rates are still great for one year of some advancement compared to the [TS]

  world of PCs and Macs but this is this is one of those years are you know some [TS]

  years it makes a bigger jump than others and this is one of those years where [TS]

  it's a it's a bit know where the big jump her sponsor this week is [TS]

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  10% off your first purchase Squarespace noted beautiful so big we mark oh yeah [TS]

  you know what we might as well go right to the main controversy of the week the [TS]

  colored activity rings I don't get why that's such a big freakin deal like I [TS]

  don't I don't like that its color but I seriously I'm like whatever but man the [TS]

  internets upset is it only color on a much lower face No [TS]

  is it simpler the other one that its color has its own utility where its [TS]

  color that's the one that's what everyone's mad babies utility values and [TS]

  I have activity ring on it [TS]

  utility is it was previously a very kind of extreme design it really you could [TS]

  have called it simple like it is a very simple design wrap it up with a bunch of [TS]

  stuff it is a very good design and many people are very upset about the activity [TS]

  rings now being these bright colors that match the colors in the inactivity app [TS]

  rather than the previous monochrome version it was a great experience so [TS]

  it's best to write very confused by his first I tried to do it work and I didn't [TS]

  work because it wants to be connected the charger and of course I don't watch [TS]

  hard work so fine when I get home and do it and I did like the phone part of it [TS]

  then or download the OS right I get home and I put my watch on charger and it led [TS]

  to the update and it goes along and then come back later [TS]

  looks like it's all done and I pick up my phone in the watch app and I'm not [TS]

  sure if it's done so I go back into like the updates thing or whatever and it's [TS]

  everything is up to date one point zero point one you got one point your part 1 [TS]

  all good and Mike one point zero point one as it says there's no update them up [TS]

  to date in mind at one point zero plan one is is that talking about the version [TS]

  of the Apple app on the iPhone I was super confused anyway all I did was pick [TS]

  about watching turned it down to time travel go and basically say they go it's [TS]

  installed so I do have a choice to but I was confused about what is that if you [TS]

  did it too did you discover what the 1.0 part 1 is referring to what was the [TS]

  previous version just a bug in the washout books it wouldn't be the first [TS]

  one I i guess i dont like the colors on the activity rings on the wood which one [TS]

  did you say it was you don't utility I keep on just a simple I mean I looked at [TS]

  it too and I was like a utility and I thought you know this this really is now [TS]

  much less elegant looking face than it was before however I also do use the [TS]

  activity rings pretty heavily it's it's one of the most common reason they look [TS]

  at my watch face and so when I first saw it I thought what a terrible mistake [TS]

  there so garish and they are but then I went for a dog walk and on the dog walk [TS]

  usually [TS]

  I would open the watch or I would look at the washer wake up and usually I [TS]

  would tap the activity brings in the corner to launch the full activity app [TS]

  to check how I was doing in that out because of the Rings in the watch face [TS]

  either wouldn't have updated yet or or you know it would be kinda hard to see [TS]

  you when I was in motion in the space walk and rings and now with the colors [TS]

  it is easier to see how I'm doing what I'm doing a walk or something [TS]

  one of the Rings can get ahead of the others and sometimes you can't quite [TS]

  tell whether it's like the orange one of the green one you know and and so you [TS]

  got to look more closely to really know and now with these new colors it makes [TS]

  it very clear so when I find that was I don't have to launch the activity at the [TS]

  gym or I can just glanced at it with the colors and I can see how you doing with [TS]

  the with the green room so it actually works for me and I really don't like the [TS]

  way it looks but it does work better for me anything else going on this week for [TS]

  anyone [TS]

  Marco I don't think so I mean I'm working on some overcast upgrades and we [TS]

  really don't talk about this because I don't care either way but now we can [TS]

  talk about it we can talk about it now ok it will happen so peace your content [TS]

  locker that we talked about last episode it became extremely popular you had a [TS]

  change of heart you pulled it and the internet got really really upset about [TS]

  it I will start by saying I think it's kind of ridiculous how upset the [TS]

  internet got about it it bothered me quite a lot and I really have nothing to [TS]

  do with this really at all but I got bothered by it because I feel like the [TS]

  Internet [TS]

  wholly and entirely over-reacted over a decision that was not easy for you to [TS]

  make and quite literally cost you a ton of money [TS]

  cost them any money in the end right time obviously spent less time making [TS]

  this app and then you know it was all for nothing I get let me maybe cost is a [TS]

  poor choice of words what I need to say is on the icon and the SSL cert the [TS]

  domain name right so here's something I didn't know until this all went around [TS]

  that clarified for me ask questions about it with my previous understanding [TS]

  about how refunds worked was that if someone bought an application for a [TS]

  dollar and Apple issued a refund they would still want thirty cents from the [TS]

  person who made the appt in other words if every single person who bought your [TS]

  application asked for a refund you would start to pay Apple 30% of the total [TS]

  revenue for your application [TS]

  pally that change some point in the recent past market you know an exact [TS]

  date so people have said that over the years the thing is with with a mean it [TS]

  from a different on the Mac App Store where the prices are usually lot higher [TS]

  on iOS though the number of refunds that that happened to polly and I S is [TS]

  usually solo me most most days I get you know from over cast on GATT like you [TS]

  know whatever you know 2400 are tens of of byes and you have like 10 or 20 [TS]

  refunds like it'll be a massive difference and so it's it's the kind of [TS]

  thing almost all iOS developers never have to think about [TS]

  therefore I never looked into it and therefore I don't know if that was ever [TS]

  true anyway the new system as Marco can confirm is happily refund Marco doesn't [TS]

  know Apple any money for that particular purchase all the money goes back to the [TS]

  person who paid for the application and that's that so in theory and we'll find [TS]

  out in practice if for example every single copy of an application that was [TS]

  purchased was refunded the developer get zero dollars and ever [TS]

  one who bought it gets the exact amount they paid back so it's a clean slate [TS]

  ignoring Marco paying for the development the application in SLC [TS]

  tonight continent let us know so that is the current situation I'm happy to hear [TS]

  that because I remember hearing back in the old days about refinancing oh that's [TS]

  you know that's pretty pretty harsh that Apple still demands that 30% of whether [TS]

  it was a intentional policy or a side effect of the system that they had never [TS]

  used a big deal because refunds are infrequent but in a strange situation [TS]

  like we had here where many applications were purchased and all refunded that [TS]

  could have ended up being even more costly but it's it's nice that that [TS]

  wasn't the case if it becomes the case believe me I will notice and I'll let [TS]

  you know I said the other thing most people don't understand about you can't [TS]

  really blame them [TS]

  developers know this nerds to know developers know this but regular [TS]

  customers why would they even have any need to know this [TS]

  developers can issue refunds can't they just cant like it you sound application [TS]

  on the App Store and someone asked if your refund you literally cannot give it [TS]

  to him there's nothing you can do this no button you can press say here's your [TS]

  money back [TS]

  only Apple can issue refunds that stupid and it has been the case [TS]

  forever and you know everytime stuff like this comes up we all reflect once [TS]

  again about how Apple owns the customer in the developer doesn't we don't know [TS]

  the customers names were not accustomed to the people who sell applications can [TS]

  respond to customers comments don't know who they are in some respects it's good [TS]

  it's like Apple's isolating you keeping your privacy but on the other hand [TS]

  developers cannot issue refunds so a lot of the people who are angry justifiably [TS]

  is like I bought an application for all three dollars and really mad about it [TS]

  anyway and it's obviously not supporting it was pulled and the developer won't [TS]

  give me a refund which is true but he can't give you literally cannot I'm sure [TS]

  Marcos first question for Marco if there was a big button that you could have [TS]

  pressed to refund everybody when you decide to pull the app would you have [TS]

  press that maybe I would have I would have definitely considered it i mean one [TS]

  of the weird things about the way this was done so I get into why Apple the app [TS]

  you know this topic I will actually give people what they're looking for [TS]

  but unfortunately already did and it's it's it's a really boring story the [TS]

  story as its whatever you want but no refunds for a second you are right so [TS]

  far the way you said it we don't mean I wouldn't even gotten them assuming that [TS]

  the sales had gone through it had not been refunded I wouldn't even have the [TS]

  money until like a month and a half from now if there was a way in Apple system [TS]

  to basically say oh give all that money back like customers gave the money to [TS]

  Apple and you can push a button the main applicant the money back to them like it [TS]

  would never appear in any year statements are pluses and minuses [TS]

  mountain in your statement about half an hour be like $0 right right I mean if if [TS]

  they gave me the control then I would have really consider doing that it does [TS]

  really suck on that i are actually now losing money on this on this project [TS]

  rather than making some money but I also it was it was a weird dilemma of light [TS]

  do I keep all or any of this money that I you know whoever doesn't claim a [TS]

  refund do I keep an event an apple made the statement made this decision for me [TS]

  they sent me an email I can email from iTunes Connect whenever it was yesterday [TS]

  afternoon but whatever day wasn't lost track of the meaning of days but [TS]

  whatever it was saying because you pulled your app we are refunding all the [TS]

  customers and it almost like a form email you could tell that it was you [TS]

  know somebody killed in like three words and it but they they decided to do that [TS]

  most likely because I was directing over 10,000 people to their refund for think [TS]

  that's like I was seeing over the last couple days there there were i think i [TS]

  think i last kind of something like thirteen or fifteen thousand people who [TS]

  had been issued refunds through the regular process and the process is [TS]

  involves doing some kind of like live chat agent thing with somebody so this [TS]

  was I Apple money to write I mean I can't imagine the load that put on the [TS]

  man and I was not very happy about that either [TS]

  and you know but I didn't have much of a choice you know I mean my my my original [TS]

  choice would have been don't like this app but you know I messed up and i got [TS]

  to lie but I messed up simple as that [TS]

  so I decided given the situation I mean we're already done that mistake how do I [TS]

  resolve this mistaken the best way possible and had been given the option [TS]

  to issue everybody book refunds I probably would have done it I can't say [TS]

  definitely yes I would have because i dont [TS]

  it was such a rush I don't even know I also don't know but I i considered and I [TS]

  had asked some some friends at a some friends like is this possible to like [TS]

  both canceled all these all these things in bulk refund them and everyone I asked [TS]

  by a simple people and they all said I don't think that's possible because most [TS]

  of the time the way the iTunes Store works is this total black box and it's [TS]

  all it's all hit accused him in any Q's team has enough to do if there if [TS]

  there's one department within apple that has way too much on their plate it said [TS]

  accused apartment and so I thought especially in regard to the iTunes Store [TS]

  this is you know this this whole infrastructure that is often does not [TS]

  work incredibly well with things like iTunes Connect error that's the idea of [TS]

  asking them to make an exception for you sound so ridiculous to almost anybody [TS]

  who's involved in this because they know that you know asking them to just make [TS]

  the basic functionality work every day is enough work for them that's that's [TS]

  hard enough anyway so I i didnt i I was not given the option to book refund [TS]

  everybody but I am kind of glad it happened because it it resolved a lot of [TS]

  problems it even though it was it was weird that they didn't ask first but I'm [TS]

  not surprised and it is kind of nice that I didn't have a choice in the [TS]

  matter because then I didn't have to make that choice but related to that [TS]

  part of the reason why someone who purchase the application will be annoyed [TS]

  I mean if you purchase it since Marco can issue your refund and since he had [TS]

  no way to do about refund but what you were doing was directing people please [TS]

  go request a refund is the only way you're going to get one you have to ask [TS]

  Apple and that process is annoying and it's like you know by now busy just [TS]

  happen but on your phone [TS]

  getting your refund seems like a hassle I don't know how to do it now I gotta [TS]

  look at Apple's site how do i do refunds market link you to the form that the [TS]

  palace added champing at the hassle so that they can give you $3 bacteria but [TS]

  why would you want your $3 back over people basically doing is like the APIs [TS]

  pulled obviously know for the development of the Apple the question [TS]

  isn't a lot of people have this question will the application continue to work on [TS]

  you know why I bought it I installed it on my phone market pulled from the [TS]

  storage means no people can buy it what does it mean about the copy of peace [TS]

  that is on my phone right now will continue to work if I get a refund will [TS]

  continue to work will be deleted from my phone if i dont answer refund how long [TS]

  will peace work before it just breaks entirely right so the answer is as far [TS]

  as I know it doesn't affect the light logical mark on your account the says [TS]

  you bought it so you are still able to have it run it I think you're able to [TS]

  restore it the way I deleted it was I didn't actually delete the entry of [TS]

  iTunes Connect I just set the availability date to be as far into the [TS]

  future as it would let me I don't know that fine details of how that work and [TS]

  so how it works and so I'm not going to promise anything there but I think it [TS]

  should allow restores everything anyway as for it functioning once you have [TS]

  installed it will continue to function until something and iOS makes it stopped [TS]

  working it will though stop getting updates from good story sometime in the [TS]

  future right now it is still a bit updates these are going to be somewhat [TS]

  costly for me to run if a lot of people keep the app installed so I might stop [TS]

  that I'm going to something eventually because now that everybody has gotten a [TS]

  refund on it that also makes it easier for me to say well you know what [TS]

  in in a few months I decide to shut down the updater and stop paying for all that [TS]

  began with the hosting for for that operation then you know I feel ok doing [TS]

  that so I'm gonna shut down some point but I haven't yet [TS]

  and when that happens the app background updates to get new definitions from from [TS]

  my server so eventually it'll become less effective over time as new ad [TS]

  servers in New trackers start existing on the web that it doesn't know about so [TS]

  that's how it will eventually break or some iOS update comes out and says well [TS]

  now you have to be on our new 128 bit processor by this day and if you're not [TS]

  running to the store as far as I know I don't think they've done any permanent [TS]

  breaking changes that would say rule out and iOS four Apple still running today I [TS]

  don't think that's the case let's be all that is a very long way of saying if you [TS]

  want to keep peace installed and if for whatever reason Apple does not remove it [TS]

  off your phone and any kind of like budget restore operation are weird thing [TS]

  like that as far as I know it's going to continue to work for a long time I think [TS]

  John I both have some more questions about this but let's talk about [TS]

  something that's awesome [TS]

  our second sponsored this week is igloo igloo software dot com slash ATP igloo [TS]

  is an internet you will actually like now [TS]

  anyone that's worked in the corporate environment knows how painful internets [TS]

  usually are content to be stale the interface is usually very tedious and [TS]

  very hard to use and usually can access on your phone or the lab breaks in your [TS]

  phone's he can't really do much short span about to use a glue fixes all that [TS]

  includes an internet you'll actually like because it is designed with modern [TS]

  technology for modern devices for the user in mind now gives you flexibility [TS]

  to get your work done how you want where you want and whatever device you want it [TS]

  is truly built for 2015 not 1997 like unfortunately too many internets with a [TS]

  glue internets you can share news you can organize files coordinate counters [TS]

  and manage projects all in one place everything can be social with comments [TS]

  like buttons lots of modern conveniences like that anybody can add content based [TS]

  on their permissions with drag-and-drop widget and what you see is what you get [TS]

  editor and it makes use of fully responsive web design this looks [TS]

  fantastic on all of your devices they have so many events feature things like [TS]

  document [TS]

  editing anti-russian you don't read management tracking who's read what it [TS]

  is really advanced stuff check it out and one of the great things about it is [TS]

  free for up to 10 people and is also there's a free trial for even more than [TS]

  10 if you have more than 10 if you have 10 or fewer people it's free forever so [TS]

  really give this a shot if you have more than 10 people start with a free trial [TS]

  and the two very reasonably priced after that check it out [TS]

  igloo software dot com slash ATP for your free trial get started today things [TS]

  like to include the internet you'll actually like John any other questions [TS]

  immediately about he's yeah we get to the good stuff we just covered let me [TS]

  let me get into the white and let me tell you the story of how this came to [TS]

  be as it does that is that good will can we just cover a couple of something [TS]

  right off the bat can we just admit that it was just a a complete glorified [TS]

  well-executed money grab that that's absolutely what happened right now the [TS]

  most unsuccessful MoneyGram in history [TS]

  yeah I'm really bad at MoneyGram yes so anyway [TS]

  know what actually happened was Apple paid the other was my best I heard was [TS]

  the Apple paid me off 22 now Apple who made this content blocking API who [TS]

  clearly wanted people to use it for Adam tracking bloody just wanted you to block [TS]

  pictures of cats Marco who I was also making them a lot of money thirty [TS]

  percent 30% a lot you know that that I think by far my favorite theory that yes [TS]

  of course yet they Apple paid me off to take this down for what exactly to to [TS]

  make them lose money and go against all their strategy goals that that makes [TS]

  sense no I mean the fact is no one paid me anything I'm now losing money on this [TS]

  because all the refunds got issued so i'm gona I'm gonna lose a few thousand [TS]

  dollars on it but oh well it took so what happened was over the summer so so [TS]

  we we had the iOS we had the content blocker announcement the BBC and in fact [TS]

  John and I are actually in the session video this there's one of the one of the [TS]

  shots and pans over [TS]

  to the audience and there's a there's a clip of me and John I think were [TS]

  clapping and one of the things that was said whatever so that's how I know [TS]

  you're making content Marcos in this session go to make any content bunker [TS]

  and I hadn't I hadn't decided right then whether I was going to do it or not but [TS]

  I knew right then it was going to be a big deal in a big market and I wanted to [TS]

  use one and that is usually a pretty good recipe from you want to make an [TS]

  appt and you know that the reality is I also want to keep doing overcast as my [TS]

  primary a pipe and so I wasn't going to tackle a new app that I thought was [TS]

  going to be a massive time sink and so content blockers are are so easy to me I [TS]

  mean really it the one the one I made that briefly did very very well and then [TS]

  the ones that are there now this is probably like the most money for the [TS]

  least effort that is ahead ever been possible in the App Store in San Marino [TS]

  soon enough it'll be diluted by tons and tons but I thought on day one there [TS]

  would be way more in the market then there were yeah I I could make one [TS]

  that's how we did it because it's like the one if you go to the session he like [TS]

  this is how it works and it is down to the data and and so the data is the code [TS]

  part of it is ridiculous that people asking me to open source it you to [TS]

  understand how little code there is here it is an incredibly special you like the [TS]

  the the extensions I added all they do is bring Safari ViewController [TS]

  I don't even read them any browser like it there is so little code in the at [TS]

  anybody can make these the only limitation is what the heck he used for [TS]

  the data for the rules of what to block that is the only hard part and the fact [TS]

  is there's tons of public of publicly available lists and databases that you [TS]

  can use and you can even like that I expected to see more [TS]

  looked into cutting bloggers that deeply but you could have couldn't you have it [TS]

  so that someone enter the URL from which to pull data in a format that you [TS]

  specify like it could be like the app could come with no didn't say well this [TS]

  is a content blocker and it works like this and expect stated to be in this [TS]

  format so type the URL here a file that I can pull that will be in that format [TS]

  and I will parse it and I will be your content blogger and maybe you don't like [TS]

  a defaulting on that pole like a block or two blocks like to be in that [TS]

  something you could do as well yeah I mean all the data you have to give them [TS]

  is just a it's a list of rules expressed in JSON and so you can you can get that [TS]

  Jason from anywhere you could included in the app you can build it on demand [TS]

  way I was doing it you get a dynamic rules it doesn't matter if it doesn't [TS]

  matter so you can make up your own format this is like a bunch of hostnames [TS]

  if you want to be like a super simple 1 I'm actually surprised more people to do [TS]

  that because that is really the least amount of work he can do you make like a [TS]

  trivial application that uses one epi and maybe even you go the extra mile [TS]

  marker didn't do the little extensions to bring up the separate you controller [TS]

  and I see nice I said there's not a lot of code in here a lot of people said the [TS]

  right thing to do is to open source it a I disagree that's I'm not obligated open [TS]

  source it would be my arrangement with ghost story is that I'm just giving it [TS]

  to them and they can do whatever they want it so it's it's no longer mine and [TS]

  that's fine [TS]

  the fact is if you want to reproduce this it is not a lot of work to do to [TS]

  make another appt like this it really is very very easy [TS]

  the only hard part of the data and that is that is very hard and make the icons [TS]

  are you could copy markers I can I don't mind could go to him and what the what [TS]

  the what the million ripoff applications that science and a few occasions that [TS]

  but like pictures of Mario into their games and stuff like they'll just copied [TS]

  exactly yeah if you want to get icon made good apparently it's great because [TS]

  they're awesome to do great work [TS]

  copy my designer don't have my design anyway [TS]

  so the thing is all summer I was I was thinking you know I should do this [TS]

  because I have like a it seems like there will be a market now again I was [TS]

  assuming from the beginning that it would be a very crowded market right [TS]

  from day one and that somebody like Adblock Plus like some well-known brand [TS]

  in an ad blocking that had to wait more exposure and visibility and user base [TS]

  than I could ever muster that they would be there in day one and would just own [TS]

  the whole market I want to think they don't they just not paying attention to [TS]

  WWDC like just not like you know cuz we all knew bloggers are going to be a big [TS]

  thing is we were but like maybe they get lost in the W ABC news like you would [TS]

  think I don't know I agree with you I totally thought that on day one of the [TS]

  store there would be a million content like this because they are so easy to [TS]

  make and there are so many places where you can get list from you can do the [TS]

  things like I said in nineteen clueless and I am when I found out you are making [TS]

  a Michael that's pretty good because in the sort of even if there are tons of [TS]

  them coming out because they're easy to make [TS]

  how do you get yourself heard above the noise and people who are against all I [TS]

  was nine on day one like you know and who are into who know that their content [TS]

  blockers and who gonna be looking for one day one you have better access to [TS]

  them than a lot of other things maybe you better access to those people then a [TS]

  big company like the thing to make that bike plus because you travel and Mac [TS]

  nerd circles and macaroons read your blog and podcast or whatever so if your [TS]

  goal is to try to sell a lot of content blockers being there on day one with the [TS]

  content blogger with a name that people recognize was a good play and you know [TS]

  it was it turns out that you know there was a good play a lot of people thought [TS]

  you meant to being number one paid app in the App Store and there weren't a lot [TS]

  of other ones too and I don't quite understand why either [TS]

  maybe they were just everyone else is asleep at the switch yeah I mean like [TS]

  like at the loop they tried to they were published in this list that was that was [TS]

  being updated and even at low on launch day they were only something like six [TS]

  entries on it and and only a half only like two or three of them were really [TS]

  getting any traction with charts I mean I was really surprised by how few there [TS]

  were any way and and by the way going back I think one of the reasons why the [TS]

  big companies like a block plus didn't go there or or haven't been there yet is [TS]

  because I was kinda blockers are very very limited didn't have access to [TS]

  what's being browsed all you do is you provide a list of rules and regular [TS]

  expressions the same block things that match this but you are not being your [TS]

  code is not being called on every page load or is it not being notified on [TS]

  what's being loaded and you can't do things like inject your own script to [TS]

  your own tracking from your site like you have no access to the way things are [TS]

  and these big companies like Adblock Plus like ghosts hurry they have you [TS]

  know the business arm of those companies usually need some kind of access or [TS]

  analytics or or track he humorously of what you are what your browsing and what [TS]

  things are being included on this page what ads are being shown what trackers [TS]

  are being loaded almost all these big companies have arrangements like that in [TS]

  some way shape or form some of them are kind of questionable I think those trees [TS]

  is pretty safe the way it works I explained in the post you know I don't [TS]

  their business model I don't think it's something to be concerned about the [TS]

  whole a couple as they are now blocked pluses I think more here doesn't matter [TS]

  fact is that i think is why these big companies weren't there on day one of a [TS]

  kind of makes sense because like I understand that their business model [TS]

  doesn't work on to be like oh by the way when they just do exactly what you did [TS]

  in selling out for three dollars and make a whole bunch of money and I think [TS]

  the answer is probably that even though it's a lot of money for a one-person due [TS]

  for a big company they're like well paid apps they can make a little money in a [TS]

  burst in and that's it there's no recurring revenue [TS]

  and we can support I mean business models so they say they're passing up [TS]

  what they consider to be chump change what is significant to one person I [TS]

  don't know how many people work for companies but a lot more than one person [TS]

  like that it just didn't seem worth it so that it might explain why the really [TS]

  big companies that do it they do you know they want huge numbers they don't [TS]

  like something that would be significant to an individual and especially but not [TS]

  recurring but then it's like why didn't someone else's another single person [TS]

  developer just give it a shot like it there were so few of them that many [TS]

  people are making a list I with my lunch they like here although I was nine [TS]

  content bloggers [TS]

  two things on a list of yours wasn't even included because of the five hour [TS]

  delay getting on the stars like crystal purity purify one blogger blog blogger [TS]

  within our yeah I saw this and trickling in but to be able to have them in a list [TS]

  if it's on a single screen and not a lot of people make content placards right so [TS]

  that's that was surprised number one was that there were so few surprise number [TS]

  two is that mine top the chart anticipate chart crystal was free on day [TS]

  one and got I think the guy said it was a hundred thousand situations and then [TS]

  he he made it paid on day two and I think now its number one but anyway [TS]

  doesn't matter and you're right I mean the kind of money that's coming in it's [TS]

  great for individual if you have a big staff it's questionable you know if it's [TS]

  worth going against your business interests and then you have to support [TS]

  that like say so you're a big well-known companies like I make my little bursts [TS]

  of money from it and maybe a little bit trickle-down effect but it's not [TS]

  significant bottom-line and then I have to continue to pay some contractor to [TS]

  make sure the app continues to work and make sure whatever servers serving data [TS]

  file that gets up to like it just might seem like a hassle of the big companies [TS]

  exactly so anyway [TS]

  going for the summer as a as I'm thinking about building this and I i [TS]

  really didn't spend a lot of time on it mostly summer was spent thinking about [TS]

  how to do it and I had my form the idea of the structure of the app at these [TS]

  extensions it would have [TS]

  have you know how that would work everything on that be great I wasn't me [TS]

  writing a lot of code until the middle of summer when I started playing with [TS]

  the various blocklist third that exists out there and in various hosts files I [TS]

  started emailing the people who maintain them asking if I could license them for [TS]

  use in a in a paid app is most of them are for non-commercial use only so you [TS]

  have to get a separate license so I started that that kind of negotiation [TS]

  and discussions but the original version of a tiny made when I was running for [TS]

  for at least a few weeks over the summer [TS]

  my own phone it was much simpler all it did was a block all third-party [TS]

  JavaScript that actually works surprisingly like one rule just block [TS]

  all third-party JavaScript [TS]

  I'm not entirely sure and recommended people do this but if your main goal if [TS]

  you're really tolerate a lot of things being broken and you're willing to go [TS]

  through the process of making the exception or whitelisting or opening up [TS]

  you know without condom bloggers like if you're going to go through that process [TS]

  a lot that gets you most of the way there I would say just blocking all [TS]

  third-party JavaScript gets you eighty percent of the way there and that's [TS]

  really it's kind of it's kind of sad how much I get you there and all these other [TS]

  databases and everything they their their strengths are mainly in getting it [TS]

  getting to the point where blocks the ad without making anything break or making [TS]

  very few things break but if you want to block all the ads and and you know [TS]

  occasionally have to open something up in in the undershirt of you just call [TS]

  germs that works fine and so awesome as do that and you know towards the reason [TS]

  this this problem attractive in the first place again was because I know [TS]

  there's going to be a market for it I wanted to use it and I had the idea of [TS]

  how to do it my way I i thought i I did think at a time you know I wonder if if [TS]

  I'm gonna get in trouble for making a block I wonder if people get people are [TS]

  you get mad at me if I make it a blocker I did think about that but in the [TS]

  excitement of solving this problem in a way that I thought was very good luck I [TS]

  was very proud of this work and so in the process of like ramping up and see [TS]

  how it turned out see how good it was [TS]

  my phone even with just that but just that Jobs corporal I kinda got lost in [TS]

  the the the the the idea of I wonder what people are going to think and if [TS]

  anyone is gonna be mad about this that got pushed back of my head because I was [TS]

  so driven by and happy about how nicely the APIs turning out and like so I was I [TS]

  was focused on totally the wrong things I was focused on I'm very proud of this [TS]

  of this nice app I made that is that is very it's making me very happy on my [TS]

  phone and I sent it to some friends later on and they they is making them [TS]

  very happies like I was so caught up in that that I i didnt go back in and [TS]

  rethink issues and then then what happened was you know I in an effort to [TS]

  try to make it better because at first you know again I said like running it [TS]

  for me with just the note thereby JavaScript ruled that worked ok but I [TS]

  wasn't necessarily sure that that was going to be a good enough product to [TS]

  text my name too because it's like you know this is really great if you're a [TS]

  nerd and you don't care about reloading lot of things [TS]

  couple times to make them work properly so that's when I started looking at [TS]

  licensing one is a daily basis and I couldn't find a good one until I tried [TS]

  groceries and then I tried that it was amazing so I contacted them I didn't [TS]

  think they would even say yes and they did say as it turns out they're actually [TS]

  really nice easy to work with and really fast to get things together I wasn't [TS]

  expecting any of these things from from a company as big as them but they they [TS]

  were really really easy and nice to work with so I work with them and and and we [TS]

  you know met their offices right here in new york city met in person we we [TS]

  arranged and we did the whole database contract everything else so then my mind [TS]

  from his last few weeks before the launch as this is all you know getting [TS]

  in place my mind is all about that and about looking now at were on this street [TS]

  this has a shower going this is gonna happen once I sign that contract I'm [TS]

  like this is going to happen and I never went back to re-evaluate should I do [TS]

  this do I want to do I want to be the person who owns the app Locker do I want [TS]

  to be in charge of an ad blocker that I stopped evaluating that [TS]

  once I got on this train of like you know this app is really good and now I [TS]

  have someone else's data in a deal with them to keep going with it and even [TS]

  better with their data I was so excited about how good the app was I never went [TS]

  back and and rethought that initial decision to even make it in the first [TS]

  place [TS]

  also I made the same mistake with the magazine that's that was an interesting [TS]

  story but you know when a when I made the magazine I was so tied up with the [TS]

  idea of making the school magazine app looks really nice and worked well and we [TS]

  better not either newsstand apps that I I forgot her really truly evaluate like [TS]

  what it would be like to have to publish an issue of the magazine every two weeks [TS]

  indefinitely and that's a lot of work and it's really hard to make the [TS]

  economics work and I kinda brushes aside I wanting to school at and so I made the [TS]

  same mistake here with different consequences different downsides where I [TS]

  was so enthralled with the app with with the technical side of it that I didn't [TS]

  adequately think about you know so what so I didn't think ahead in six months [TS]

  do I want to be spending half or more of my time being the guy who runs the big [TS]

  ad blocker Casey this very jumping with address bar code that you have off the [TS]

  top of your head I do it in about seven seconds he that he spared no expense no [TS]

  thats can go right movie I've got nothing got it market so preoccupied [TS]

  about whether or not he could make an app that didn't stop to think we should [TS]

  write exactly and or rather I stopped really early on to think and I was like [TS]

  let me try it so when you when you thought about it but before you got into [TS]

  like the whole time in making deals with those tree I'm happy with the applicable [TS]

  you thought about before that before before all that you said I'm gonna make [TS]

  what did you what was your thinking like you you you got to give yourself the [TS]

  green light you thought about it before you decide you do this and you said you [TS]

  know what I am going to do with it [TS]

  based mostly on the fact that you wanted to run one just before anyone had run [TS]

  when you had made one [TS]

  didn't exist I want to run one that why you're making you know like take us back [TS]

  to that thinking before you got caught up in some of the momentum of making the [TS]

  right I mean I absolutely want to run one as soon as I they had the very early [TS]

  prototype of the app on my phone with me just know they're pretty jobs for parole [TS]

  as soon as I had that on my phone and saw the massive difference it made in [TS]

  browsing speed and also I really do objected to tons of web advertising and [TS]

  tracking I think what the web publishing rule has done and and I blame the [TS]

  publishers a lot of people you know that I don't go too far in this case if you [TS]

  want to hear more about the you know why this debate is so complicated this [TS]

  week's epicenter back to work is really good on a topic and then talked at [TS]

  length about this whole thing it covered a lot of angles because it really is a [TS]

  very complex problem that is not a simple yes-no kind of thing they covered [TS]

  a lot of it but just you know briefly I do want to make clear I'm gonna still [TS]

  use an ad blocker and I'm still going to advocate that people block things that [TS]

  they don't think are acceptable [TS]

  what changed in my in my mind and what really should I bother you that I don't [TS]

  want to be the person in charge of making this decision for everybody I [TS]

  don't want to be the enabler necessarily I don't want to be the arbiter of what [TS]

  is good and what is the problem is you know you say block first of all I want [TS]

  to clear up right up front the idea of what I just want to block tracking but [TS]

  not adds that's BS because you because ads are tracking like you you can't [TS]

  while this is why they are very very few ads like the deck recently published [TS]

  their new privacy policy where they they explicitly say we we will not do any [TS]

  tracking from the decker disturbingly static images or whatever but that is [TS]

  really there's there are almost no advertising networks that will that will [TS]

  claim that will guarantee that and actually do that so the fact is if you [TS]

  are saying I want to block tracking but not adds that is not that's not really [TS]

  an enforceable thing you have to in order to block almost any tracking [TS]

  you have to block almost all ads that that simple it's simple as that you have [TS]

  to block at supply tracking furthermore if you really want to block more [TS]

  tracking you also have to block things like social and beds because Facebook [TS]

  and Twitter and Google+ all these things Amazon all these links these things that [TS]

  are embedded in people's site +1 this on Facebook thumbs up this on Twitter [TS]

  whatever I know this because I don't care all those things are also tracking [TS]

  because the social companies are some of the biggest tracking companies in the [TS]

  world so you also have to block social and pets and what about embedded YouTube [TS]

  videos [TS]

  Google's tracking those like there's a lot you if you really want to block [TS]

  tracking there's a lot you have to block so the fact is this is very very [TS]

  complicated it's it's a very much a gray area but you can't have it both ways if [TS]

  you say you object to being tracked or you say you check too bad ads or you [TS]

  know you try to dance a well I want to block ads but not yours yours are good [TS]

  you know it becomes very very hard to actually do that to actually manage that [TS]

  because it's usually usually are asking for something that isn't possible are [TS]

  you asking for for distinction doesn't really exist and you thought about this [TS]

  angle at all before embarking on creating the application as in like when [TS]

  I make this application when I use it you know I'll set it up so I like how it [TS]

  works but then I will sort of de facto be even if it's just buy a pitiful that [TS]

  included the application be deciding what everyone who uses my application [TS]

  fees on the web and therefore I am sort of like be the linchpin of some subset [TS]

  of the number of iOS users like Marco controls whether [TS]

  this these this group of users sees this kind of ad on this site because he's out [TS]

  to the defaulters application that happens to be thought about that at all [TS]

  or not measured reminder if you did think about it that was going to shake [TS]

  out I really didn't think that much about these distinctions CEO the only [TS]

  thing I thought of when I was making the appt was good stories data is tagged [TS]

  with like this one of the reasons why go through to be so good as you can see [TS]

  this when you stop liking each of the entries is taxable sales block this page [TS]

  you can see how it brought you know Google Page century never ends comma to [TS]

  add comment tracker it brought the deck ends a plot to do the amateur tracker [TS]

  and it'll get tags each entry with whether it's in a detractor social [TS]

  widget find commenting on whatever the categories attends so I could have very [TS]

  easily made an option right in the app that said you know check mark block ads [TS]

  check mark block trackers and had you target the separately from each other [TS]

  but again I think that's a false distinction because the fact is if you [TS]

  say you don't be tracked you have to look at [TS]

  simple as that so anyway so I really hadn't thought about the reality of me [TS]

  because I thought you know up until a few weeks before the thing launched I [TS]

  was doing my javascript thing and didn't have any distinction whatsoever and [TS]

  that's i think almost more defensible if if you say third-party javaScript is a [TS]

  problem because the reality is most of the problems with web tracking and [TS]

  creepiness and bad ads if you block third-party JavaScript that is a very [TS]

  defensible practical thing that you should consider doing because that is [TS]

  kind of why these trackers on the web can be so powerful because you can embed [TS]

  a script tag on millions of different publisher sites and your your server is [TS]

  called from the use the browser and you're able to run code arbitrary code [TS]

  on the user's browser and have access to the top of the browser the hardware [TS]

  access it's now the exposed API's all this crazy stuff you have access to [TS]

  freeze their party in beds you as the creepy had company or whatever and you [TS]

  can track everything and [TS]

  offended if people saw what is possible if if if you're on the fence about [TS]

  whether you want to block tracking you see like the kind of just it is so [TS]

  creepy what publishers are able to see the they're basically watch they can [TS]

  watch an individual's every move they can see when you throw the consumer your [TS]

  mouse cursor they can see what you have heard how long you have and how long you [TS]

  look at something they can see everything if you block cookies or if [TS]

  you block their party you know whenever there's almost nothing you can do [TS]

  including a tractor there's almost nothing you can do to prevent them from [TS]

  identifying you uniquely because even if you disable cookies and everything else [TS]

  they can identify what your phone's battery capacity is to the new battery [TS]

  level API's they can set different kinds of cookies through flash or through [TS]

  databases web TV kinda stuff there's so many they can't they can just analyze [TS]

  your browser request headers and just just combining that with your IP address [TS]

  and you can they can generally get pretty unique with that it is so easy to [TS]

  track you and to uniquely identify you [TS]

  between multiple sites between the only thing you can really do is block their [TS]

  party and beds now and so let me get to it but Garba said in the chat so you [TS]

  know what a publisher's then just proxy the JavaScript do their servers good [TS]

  question the main area so first of all and this is a whole topic we can get to [TS]

  it like you know what happens if others have blocking does it become so big that [TS]

  publishers have to change what they do things and you know the things they [TS]

  changed you might be worse and in some ways they will be but that major thing [TS]

  holding us back right now is ease and trust publishers usually don't have big [TS]

  tech teams and whatever tech teams they're doing are busy busy doing the [TS]

  crazy CMS stuff trying to accommodate some crazy stuff the salespeople sold an [TS]

  advertiser for like a one off thing that's the tech teams are busy doing it [TS]

  at big publishers and they're usually not very big teams so to have those [TS]

  texts teams do any custom work that involves running more things through [TS]

  their software and through their servers through their domain names that's [TS]

  unlikely to happen a lot of publishers secondly the issue of trust and the [TS]

  effect is the advertisers and publishers and the Vienna visitors we all hate each [TS]

  other like this [TS]

  the advertisers and publishers either get published writer at them off and so [TS]

  the advertisers don't usually trust the publishers to say how many people viewed [TS]

  something if you prosecute everything through the publisher server then the [TS]

  advertiser whatever the network has no way to verify that those were real hits [TS]

  that came from real unique people [TS]

  the publisher could fake that dated back to the advertiser and enough people [TS]

  would that you know you might get the big sites could agree to do that [TS]

  like you know New York Times could do that but you wouldn't see something like [TS]

  Google Adsense her like this common things on tons of sites you would see [TS]

  some like that kind of model because they just couldn't be trustworthy back [TS]

  to advertisers so that's not gonna happen anyway going back before I before [TS]

  i came to part of it to be like the post-release thing services thing not be [TS]

  a problem and then as the success rolled in and as I started as a hit number one [TS]

  and as money started rolling in big money starts rolling in I started [TS]

  getting a lot of attention that I really was not prepared to get and I didn't [TS]

  want to be the face of this war you know I felt and I used a war metaphors and I [TS]

  am i pulling post and I do want to recognize that I'm using these metaphors [TS]

  extremely lightly because this is all very much first world problems and this [TS]

  is nothing like what real war is so I really want to do these metaphors [TS]

  extremely loosely in with that John disclaimer had a bit but I I almost feel [TS]

  like I was an arms dealer you know there's a war going on and these two [TS]

  sides you know really don't like each other and attorney whatever they can to [TS]

  disagree a lot of casualties happening and I was the arms dealer that was [TS]

  enabling them [TS]

  and yet if I start if I pull my appt somebody else will step in they are did [TS]

  i mean you know somebody can step in and can become the arms dealer so it's gonna [TS]

  happen anyway let them be Dr regular I didn't want to do that I didn't want to [TS]

  be in a position and I i just i didnt expect the scale of it I didn't [TS]

  adequately question how I would feel about it you know [TS]

  late enough in the process I was so I was so taken by how great the app turned [TS]

  out and how great the good news was working that I I didn't put enough [TS]

  thought into do I really want to be doing this and then all the requests are [TS]

  rolling in a well you know this is really terrible for everybody but if he [TS]

  could make these changes and everybody had different changes and they were all [TS]

  very complex and it was going to be that peace was going to take it was it was [TS]

  going to have to replace overcast completely it was I was no are going to [TS]

  be a podcast at maker I would have had to be a full-time ad blocking at maker [TS]

  dealing with the full-time realities of being in a position of being an arms [TS]

  dealer being that arbiter of what is what is acceptable and what's not and [TS]

  the fact is I don't know anything about that business at all I've only even used [TS]

  an ad blocker for like three or four months and barely even use them for that [TS]

  long I was totally unprepared to to be in this role and one slice once I was [TS]

  faced with the reality of what this role is like I realized oh I really don't [TS]

  like this this is really uncomfortable I was I was having trouble sleeping for [TS]

  those few minutes only few nights that people before it pulled it but you know [TS]

  I was having trouble sleeping I was I was really kind of upset all day all [TS]

  night it was I really did not know what to do I I just realized that I I had [TS]

  gotten in way too deep [TS]

  i'd was way over my head I had not thought through enough and I have found [TS]

  myself in a very powerful position that I really didn't want that power [TS]

  in an industry that I really didn't want to be in being the face of a war that [TS]

  are really did not want to face up that's what happened though it was just [TS]

  ask the question that a lot of people have asked on Twitter in a ceremony with [TS]

  the answers [TS]

  was the fact that piece blocked ads on Marco dot org factor in any of your [TS]

  decisions no I don't make that much money from that is fine it's not at all [TS]

  and it does block them right piece on the market of your website it blocks the [TS]

  ads on it and you know that and it did not affect any of your decisions I [TS]

  thought it would be a massive dick move I didn't i mean that's maybe it's [TS]

  because of you know like that all the different things that you do you make [TS]

  overcast got the podcast you got a website and they all kind of contribute [TS]

  to the stuff that you do but it seems to me in recent years that your website [TS]

  although it used to be much more important is now less important so maybe [TS]

  people who only know you're a public space from me didn't you stop selling [TS]

  sponsorships to the website recently like a year ago or more anyway I think [TS]

  people have the wrong impression and think think of you think of black market [TS]

  targets are saying things like there is in like that Martin target the main [TS]

  thing and then you do these podcasts on the side you make software on the side [TS]

  or whatever but at various times the balance between the things you do it [TS]

  right away I barely even write on my site anymore [TS]

  tell me about it yeah yeah you winning you are no but I mean the fact is like [TS]

  if the deck cancel my membership over this that would like threatening to do [TS]

  that wouldn't have been if they didn't but threatening to do that would not [TS]

  have been enough for me to make this is it I made this decision with almost no [TS]

  input I asked almost nobody I did actually run a lot of a lot of theories [TS]

  are the John Gruber somehow like sodomy to force me to do this the only person [TS]

  who knew before I pulled the app that I was going to pull the ad besides history [TS]

  and my wife the only the person that I told was John Gruber and he's he's here [TS]

  he's he's a smart guy and and so I ran up by him as kind of a sanity check [TS]

  like my totally insane here and I don't want to ask a lot of people but I did [TS]

  ask him is he has thoughts on this issue and he said I should keep it up he told [TS]

  me to leave like he said don't do it he said wait you know this is your being [TS]

  rash is think this through you really want to do this so the theory that he [TS]

  somehow got to me I don't know that in the bed the theory that he got to me is [TS]

  completely wrong that the fact is I made the decision before talked to him about [TS]

  it I ran by him he told me don't do and then I did it anyway so that's what [TS]

  happened and you know once and goes there was great and I thought that was a [TS]

  problem going to them and be like hey nevermind but they made their employment [TS]

  before them but we we were on the same page it was fun and they were they were [TS]

  like they were again so incredibly easy to work with [TS]

  ok if that's what happened you know before and during and so I don't know [TS]

  how much time I talked about you know what I think about ads today a Merry [TS]

  ranted about how a detractors are the same thing as they are I will say that I [TS]

  think the biggest problem that web publishing faces is that things they're [TS]

  doing it is nicely I would say journalists are kind of like I've had [TS]

  this problem with academics as well and probably cuz I was a terrible student [TS]

  had generally terrible experiences with school incurring up but academia put [TS]

  itself in in a really pious position and some of those deserved but a lot of it [TS]

  isn't in a lot of ways they're just people with the same flaws as everyone [TS]

  else [TS]

  the role they serve is in some part special necessary in some parts just a [TS]

  business and so journalism I think you can see all the same things about it is [TS]

  it does serve a critical role in society [TS]

  sometimes most of the journalism taking place today is not providing value [TS]

  really or not providing enough value [TS]

  it's really hard business because if you're in the business like I thought it [TS]

  was kind of ironic premium [TS]

  misusing that word the ironically these but it was kind of ironic that my my [TS]

  post in which I said that I was pulling the app somebody's preacher and take me [TS]

  that it was you know they were like you know a hundred other posts from new [TS]

  sites that were basically gives rewrites of it just valueless bad rewrites of it [TS]

  that didn't even get the right point out of it of course my experience with [TS]

  journalists personally has been mostly mediocre to negative I have said many [TS]

  times in the past that talking to journalists is like talking to the [TS]

  police [TS]

  ideally don't they they have different goals the new and they have lots of [TS]

  incentives that might be misaligned incentives and you in my experience I've [TS]

  been very frequently misrepresented and I've had my quote very frequently used [TS]

  out of context and against me or again or as weapons to fight a cause that I [TS]

  wasn't representing so I had a lot of mediocre experiences or negative [TS]

  experience of the journalists because there's this this attitude in the [TS]

  business that they are untouchable that that they are that they they must they [TS]

  must be automatically supported by society somehow that what they're doing [TS]

  has has infinite value and the fact is that you have read this post I see like [TS]

  the hundred useless rewrites that that most site publisher some sites had [TS]

  original content that was interesting an interesting perspective most didn't [TS]

  there's a massive oversupply of journalism publishing on the web ad [TS]

  blockers have existed for a long time people from blocking ads for a long time [TS]

  ad rates have been going down for a long time especially display ads on websites [TS]

  design decisions have been being made by data for a long time there's this this [TS]

  infectious culture of data people to drive me nuts [TS]

  the analytics and data and read all those things are euphemisms for tracking [TS]

  and so this culture drives major decisions [TS]

  at publishers including what analysts going to have in their site what [TS]

  trackers are going to embed how to attract you what they're going to track [TS]

  who they're going to cellular data to this culture of we're gonna track [TS]

  everything that's ok we're gonna make all of our design decisions based on [TS]

  data and he be testing everything that has infected the industry so so badly [TS]

  and by the way all the supplies to apps as well but whereas can do is different [TS]

  and then we'll get to that of the time but the combination of the the the data [TS]

  people plus publishing just being so hyper competitive so oversupplied and [TS]

  adverts being so bad leads to an environment where publishers are just [TS]

  desperate because as an economic so hard they're really hard if you have a staff [TS]

  of more than zero here if you're just yourself working a lot of people can [TS]

  make can make money themselves enough to survive but once you're supporting staff [TS]

  like if you if you're big enough to like having a chart apartment I think that's [TS]

  that's a good barrier like if you're so be like that and you're trying to make [TS]

  it in publishing it's really hard to do this environment this atmosphere of [TS]

  difficult economics decreasing ad rates it screams environment where bad [TS]

  behavior like him getting tons of trackers and doing creepy things to your [TS]

  data is only going to increase it is it is prevalent now it only going to [TS]

  increase and the fact that or the idea that journalism needs to be supported by [TS]

  society no matter what despite all this garbage I don't think is a valid [TS]

  argument and and I think that there's really fault on both sides here the [TS]

  attitude from publisher seems to be that they are helpless in this fight that [TS]

  well it's not our problem but advertisers do we have to use them then [TS]

  that's your problem you know it then that's your fault you you are choosing [TS]

  to do this you are selling me to them so this is this is a hard problem it is not [TS]

  going to be solved anytime soon [TS]

  it is not you know it's as much a blogger's fault as the decline of the [TS]

  music sales were Napster his fault you know that gets you know that's [TS]

  contributing factor but it's not only the root problem [TS]

  and I think any discussion of of a bloggers that comes over the next months [TS]

  and years as the economics of these friend and will continue to crumble a [TS]

  lot of people in a blockers but the reality is it's much more complicated [TS]

  than that and i really think journalists and publishing companies are looking at [TS]

  complete their own way they're looking at it it really in a way to bury their [TS]

  head in the sand they're saying well it's your fault you're blocking our ads [TS]

  whatever the real problem is that the real problem is that they are adding [TS]

  things to their sites and tracking things and and shoving in an arbitrary [TS]

  could they are allowing themselves and advertisers to do really creepy things [TS]

  in the name of money and data that's problem number one problem number two is [TS]

  that many of them are doing work that they assume has value that might have [TS]

  less value than they think like taking my blog post and rewriting it for your [TS]

  audience how much value that have really liked are you adding much there should [TS]

  people be paying you for that I don't know if I think there I think they're in [TS]

  trouble I i think they're looking at it the wrong way and I don't want to seem [TS]

  like to enter publisher here because a lot of them they're really good but [TS]

  there's also a lot of having a really hard next few years and I think they're [TS]

  gonna blame ad blockers but the reality is this was happening with or without a [TS]

  blogger's anywhere finals but really it's about time for that much of this [TS]

  week is a mail route mail route that net / ATP to learn more [TS]

  just makin first second and world that's spam without viruses about don t know [TS]

  that is why they can bring that to you today here's what you do you put mail [TS]

  route in front of your mail server they filter the mail and a forward the clean [TS]

  mail to your mail servers that's it you can configure if you want you can set [TS]

  times a great option they can they can establish you know they can administer [TS]

  groups and individuals and all sorts of corporate buzzwords that they support [TS]

  they they support everything LDAP now back after director et al Sabban really [TS]

  all this crazy stuff but that's it that's all there call option but if you [TS]

  want to learn how to do [TS]

  is this point your MX records of them have them point to you and then you just [TS]

  stop it expand [TS]

  that's it i mean i view this now for six months a year some have used for a while [TS]

  and it is really good I mean they they cannot pay me to say that is really good [TS]

  I'm telling you myself off script I've been using it and it's a really good I [TS]

  hardly ever C span it is it is a rare occasion that spend it through the [TS]

  school thing where they send to Quarantine email if they think something [TS]

  might be spam [TS]

  but they're not that confident about it because the quarantine it sends you an [TS]

  email digest [TS]

  like one email I think it's one today I have mine set to come in the morning for [TS]

  this through this time period and then there's just a list of subject lines and [TS]

  there's links in there you can just tap a link to say what was this one send it [TS]

  through and the rest is ignore and India that adds to your database overtime and [TS]

  they learn from that so I'm not worried about things getting falsely trapped in [TS]

  my spam filter because I'm being sent anything that was questionable and [TS]

  occasionally I want this one to send it through and you get there is no longer [TS]

  news click link it's it's all you know has everything you need to login it's [TS]

  great it's such a great system [TS]

  economic phone you know my brother doesn't matter it is great and so all [TS]

  you do you set this up and then you just dont C span anymore that alone until you [TS]

  it works I'm telling you this makes any email hosts have better spam filtering [TS]

  than gmail from Gmail friends told me from hurting other people have said that [TS]

  on the previous ad reads and hurting people who say the same thing but this [TS]

  is better than Gmail spam filter the combination of mail route in front of [TS]

  any other I'm outposts gives you standards-based email with world-class [TS]

  painful during a mean the best I've ever seen on any host you want and it's great [TS]

  so check it out now right that net / ATP for a free trial and if you use that [TS]

  link you get 10% off for the lifetime of your entire account there it is used by [TS]

  all sorts of people individuals like me all the way up to large corporations [TS]

  large universities can reduce load in your email service your self can really [TS]

  dramatically improved just been filtering on a host service that you use [TS]

  like what I do they have API is everything it's amazing [TS]

  check it out and tell you it works now read that net / ATP thanks a lot for [TS]

  sponsor show [TS]

  what did you learn from all this from the peace thing and and I mean this not [TS]

  to be you up but clearly this did not go the way you thought it was going to go [TS]

  and clearly it was a disaster right and and i think what a lot of people lost [TS]

  sight over when you pulled piece was was that that it was going to be a long-term [TS]

  fix but it was a short-term increased disaster like you are not making things [TS]

  easier on yourself by at least for the first few days by pulling peace and I'm [TS]

  curious you know what did you learn from this experience and and maybe even from [TS]

  the magazine you've made a few parallels with that experience what have you [TS]

  learned I'd like to say that I learned not to tackle after thinking them [TS]

  through but the reality is I'm probably gonna make that mistake again the future [TS]

  a pic better ones I say I like making stuff and I got carried away in both in [TS]

  both cases they carried away with like you know first of all underestimate how [TS]

  much work they would be in second of all not taking forward enough like do I [TS]

  really want to be this thing full time because that can and probably will [TS]

  happen a lot of these things you know I thought he was going to be a really [TS]

  simple thing that especially since I outsource the data to go story I thought [TS]

  it would be effectively no upkeep I did not think it was going to do that well I [TS]

  didn't think I'd become the face of a blocking and I didn't think through what [TS]

  it meant what it would mean for it to be widely used and what it what it would [TS]

  mean to put myself in that position and whether I want to be in a position and [TS]

  the reality is I'm not made for that I'm not made for this business I i made for [TS]

  occasionally talking about it on podcasts but I'm not made for for [TS]

  actually being in it for being involved her for being a major decision maker for [TS]

  the politics for the pressure for possibly being sued I mean we don't know [TS]

  anything about cricket suit you know that there's all these things could [TS]

  happen [TS]

  and I didn't want to be in that business that deeply I just wanted to make a cool [TS]

  app and then get back to my podcast and the fact is it isn't that simple and [TS]

  success makes it especially not that simple but you could have done that like [TS]

  physically speaking it could have been no upkeep if you had to deal with those [TS]

  trees could have made the appt you could have never modify the application again [TS]

  except to keep it running and you know just continue to serve the country like [TS]

  that was that was a possibility it's not as if there was something specifically [TS]

  about this application that required a tremendous amount of upkeep right yeah [TS]

  it's it's more that I thought the problem was with simple it really was [TS]

  you know i i really thought that just having this master on off switch and a [TS]

  handful options below would be enough to solve the problem and the reality is [TS]

  that's not enough you know like any app I mean when I made buckshot whenever was [TS]

  two years ago yet two years ago when I meet buckshot I thought the same thing [TS]

  that this is going to be a simple little thing I know I'm gonna spin like a week [TS]

  on it and then you know if I'll use my friends we use it maybe also a couple [TS]

  thousand copies right then and buckshot case that's exactly what happened but [TS]

  it's even on day one it was like well gotta fix this bug this feature requests [TS]

  coming in a lot I really should address that it wouldn't be that much work and [TS]

  so it starts eating more and more time eating more and more of your attention [TS]

  the idea of just releasing an app out there and and that's the end of it is [TS]

  something that I keep falling into that that is one of the things I have to [TS]

  learn here is like when I had his idol ideas for little side apps it's very [TS]

  hard to to make those stay a little side apps to really make them not take that [TS]

  long [TS]

  not take away a lot of time for my primary APICS right now is overcast and [TS]

  I i said to be there for a long time I I keep thinking I can do more than I [TS]

  really can in in in a day or at a time that is the main problem here I have a [TS]

  lot of things I want to do have a lot of ideas I want to work on but I really [TS]

  need to first question a how much time they were actually take probably way [TS]

  more than I think of ongoing time [TS]

  and then be do I really want to be there what if it succeeds then I then I'm that [TS]

  person that I mean that business to everyone to be there I think but I see [TS]

  at the center of this is like getting hit by the idea that you could have made [TS]

  peace the way it was a major continued to work as I was updated but never had [TS]

  another feature to it never changes thing on it never update the icon never [TS]

  liked that's it you do the app you make it you leave it on the story this for [TS]

  sale [TS]

  you never make any other changes to it that is thing you could do but I think [TS]

  the problem is that the application requires up to that they don't require [TS]

  the appeal the only required because you feel bad about having an application [TS]

  that you know could be better in the million ways that everyone is it just [TS]

  you and so you feel compelled to you like with buckshot like you know those [TS]

  people have a point it would be better at this feature that beer and this [TS]

  actually would be a good idea and it just you can't you can't you can't abide [TS]

  by having an application on the story that you made the debt is in some ways a [TS]

  representation of you like this is my work is it everything I made and they [TS]

  just never touch it again like that sounds like it would be torture for you [TS]

  to be forced to put out an application is that the only thing to do is [TS]

  application from now on you know I do any work on it except that it breaks [TS]

  because of an OS update and you do the minimum to get it working in that he [TS]

  can't be Jersey can't change behavior you can tap the icon you can't make it [TS]

  more efficient you can't do anything with it right and it seems like you are [TS]

  constitutionally incapable and you know I think most developers are customers of [TS]

  cable doing them because they would just eat it to you to be like but it's not [TS]

  but is not good is not as good as it could be it could be better or I think I [TS]

  made a mistake with this or it should or should be different or even just your [TS]

  own purposes even like you know what a distinct set up its not even working for [TS]

  me anymore I can use my own out because of the changes of that that i think is [TS]

  at the core here because I know there are a lot of developers like who you [TS]

  know these these these places they just turn up thousands and thousands and [TS]

  thousands of applications but you know fleets are developers their fire and [TS]

  forget it's like how goes out into the world makes whatever money is going to [TS]

  make it will never be revisited right but that is not how you you don't feel [TS]

  good working that way so you never will work that way and so that's why it's [TS]

  basically impossible for you to [TS]

  up like that you to say just make this app to sit on the store making money on [TS]

  never look at it again [TS]

  yeah I think you're right I mean that I can't do that I am NOT able even eat [TS]

  whatever I think will will happen before it happens when the time comes I am NOT [TS]

  able in the morning and that that I decided to pull it decided to pull you [TS]

  know mid-morning before that I was sitting down to start work overnight [TS]

  peace there I was starting to work on the on the 1.1 update that would add all [TS]

  these you know granular settings and all this crap people wanted unlike you know [TS]

  that's when I start thinking like I really don't want to do this like this [TS]

  is really I'm not happy making this app I am i cant handle the heat I would like [TS]

  to go to the kitchen please like I i cant get and why am I like I wanna be [TS]

  shipping overcast to point out what what the heck am i doing doing this app that [TS]

  is that is making me hate myself and one of the problems is it was bringing good [TS]

  money it's really hard to turn that down a lot of people wouldn't be able to turn [TS]

  that down I was fortunate that I have other sources of income I had made money [TS]

  in the past so I i I could you know I'd ask my wife of course like you know like [TS]

  crazy but I you know the fact is it was really hard to turn that away once it [TS]

  was working but that should give you some idea of how bad I felt about it [TS]

  like that I really really did not want to be in at once I was in it once I was [TS]

  in 2010 this is this is not for me I can't I can't handle it I mean being in [TS]

  the AM blocking business feels like being the piracy business you know men [TS]

  please don't wanna hear from people about this comment but because it isn't [TS]

  it isn't the same it isn't it isn't a direct perfect metaphor but there are [TS]

  there's a lot of that that you know being an ambush you know piracy and [TS]

  blocking these are things that lots of people want lots of people or admit they [TS]

  wanted [TS]

  the one anyway lots of people do it and don't talk about it it's no big deal [TS]

  there are some legitimate reasons to do things that are unjust you want things [TS]

  for free like this actually get reason for people power thing sometimes and [TS]

  there's I think very many legitimate reason to block ads but the fact is they [TS]

  they can all live in the same world of like things that are either illegal or [TS]

  kind of clothes you know kind of in a gray area it's it's a it's a tricky area [TS]

  to to define like morals and standards around and so making a living from a [TS]

  blocker it kind of feels like a kind of music profiting off of piracy or I [TS]

  wonder if like people who work for porn sites field feel weird about it like any [TS]

  season is over I don't know I don't like either but I suspect it might have some [TS]

  similar issues of like some people just don't want to be associated with that [TS]

  kind of industry you know and so i think i block it one of those things where it [TS]

  is questionable [TS]

  it is potentially risky your people getting hurt somewhere along the way [TS]

  like it's kind of tricky to stomach and I think there's a reason why most people [TS]

  who make a blocking software are not like prominent indeed personalities in [TS]

  public like I don't know the people in either a blogger's at all I've never [TS]

  heard of them its fine they probably would not be exposed to as much crap as [TS]

  well I was getting because I I put myself out there in the public eye I [TS]

  have a very public persona in this industry and and and among the press [TS]

  which sometimes I really regret and this is one of those times but where it's [TS]

  really hard to handle but this this is the business made for anonymous [TS]

  companies and people who don't mind the heat that's made for them and I'm [TS]

  neither of those things from people who are angry like my anger about this thing [TS]

  I if I could speak to those people are moment of this show and didn't rage quit [TS]

  figures now [TS]

  stabilize banks at first I think it's reasonable for people to be angry his [TS]

  Marco did it convenes a lot of people who had to go get a refund before the [TS]

  big thing happen and and also like you know it's a sort of feeling of betrayal [TS]

  like I'm buying the thing because I trust the things that Marco makes and [TS]

  now the address is being betrayed so there is a fundamental screw up on [TS]

  Marcus part underlying all this and understand why people are angry about it [TS]

  and you know Marco knew that I would be coming and I think you accept that ya [TS]

  know like that the short-term pain for long-term gain it's best to just rip off [TS]

  the bandaid now people are going to be angry at you and that's just something [TS]

  you have to deal with right obviously goes online people get really like [TS]

  there's that aspect of it and I don't think that's that's that's that's part [TS]

  of your decision-making as I think although you made any way to get to the [TS]

  second thing is that people are angry about that you know they're angry spend [TS]

  down all sorts of directions and it's like how did you make an ad blocker and [TS]

  not understand that you didn't want to be a person who makes a netbook I think [TS]

  you've got done a good job explaining that now but I think your blog post [TS]

  about it explains even better particularly in the title and that they [TS]

  like how dumb is going to be he spent the whole summer making an ad blocker he [TS]

  put that out there and then one day later he goes you know what I don't want [TS]

  to make an ad blocking a block ads right like that it somehow you didn't [TS]

  understand how ad blockers work and my take on the base on your blog post [TS]

  everything you said is that you understood that you were going to make [TS]

  an ad blocker you wanted to use that bloggers you still do want to use in [TS]

  that bunker and you may 21 you like to adjust it a serious like you said you're [TS]

  overdoing things an application that you think is gonna be popular that you [TS]

  yourself want to use that you can develop that the formula for making it [TS]

  an outbreak yeah and so you you made the thing and when it came out that thing [TS]

  you didn't anticipate was the fact that not that I couldn't block dad but it was [TS]

  you know making an ad blocker and having a block as all that work the way you [TS]

  hope that it's great but you didn't anticipate was how you would feel about [TS]

  beating how you feel about being the person who made a net locker and people [TS]

  who think that you should be able to predict how you feel about something [TS]

  that has now [TS]

  happened are asking too much I think of you know like I really want to be I [TS]

  don't know like the manager of the store that I work out I really want to be [TS]

  married I really want to you know get a tattoo I really want to learn to fly a [TS]

  plan to be an account until you actually do all those things you can have [TS]

  predictions about how much you're gonna like it are you really gonna like being [TS]

  manager [TS]

  are you actually gonna like learning to fly a plane you know all those things [TS]

  you say you want to get married once this person a lot of people change their [TS]

  mind about that about half of them you know like you may think you know like [TS]

  didn't you understand what it would be like to be managed to see the manager [TS]

  every day you know what managers do it's not like the mystery and then you're [TS]

  saying you're the man now you're not happy sometimes you just don't know how [TS]

  you gonna feel about doing anything until you actually do it and that's a [TS]

  mistake we all make that mistake in various sizes hopefully most of us don't [TS]

  make those mistakes in the public eye but sometimes you do right and so my the [TS]

  way i frame what margaret is done here is that he didn't correctly picked [TS]

  predict how he would feel about something that's not an intellectual [TS]

  thing where he didn't understand the consequences or that you know all the [TS]

  grand conspiracy theories Iran to get into is that like you said you think it [TS]

  didn't feel good to you to be doing everything else was working exactly as [TS]

  you predicted like you thought it would could potentially sought because you you [TS]

  know you're prominent and something that people want and it was working more or [TS]

  less the way you wanted and your friends that you tried out working well and it [TS]

  worked well for you all working exactly but other things made you feel bad about [TS]

  having you there and so what you did was make decisions I feel bad if I want out [TS]

  of this feeling make feeling stop now please and the consequence of doing that [TS]

  was making a bunch of people angry and they're just by an angry cuz you screwed [TS]

  up and but you fix it as fast as he could and you know like ripping off a [TS]

  bandaid the worst thing you could have done is Hemant on feel bad about this [TS]

  for weeks and weeks and then that would've been terrible get an even more [TS]

  money even more people pissed and we were in the same situation but you still [TS]

  had no way to both refund them and they would have to even more people going [TS]

  through there [TS]

  you know it was just you made the decision you made the best of many [TS]

  possible bad decisions at the time you had to make it and that bad decision [TS]

  doesn't absolve you of everything but like I think people are who are who you [TS]

  don't forget who are very angry and I like you know that's like I have to say [TS]

  like that's too high of standards like what you're basically saying is my [TS]

  public figures can never make a mistake you know no that's not you can't hold [TS]

  people that america's you can you can just say about this mistake this one [TS]

  mistake too far and now I'm never gonna like I'm never gonna leave a mark was [TS]

  again I will never trust him again I mean it is a minor betrayal of trust you [TS]

  can decide that night but like I think it's unrealistic to think that anybody [TS]

  is ever going to fulfill you know they're never gonna do a market in which [TS]

  is basically not correctly predicted they would feel about something I don't [TS]

  just like I'm not going to say that people should or shouldn't be angry or [TS]

  whatever it just from my perspective in the grand scheme of things it's so [TS]

  understandable as a thing that happens to all of us and it just happened that [TS]

  happened to Marco on a grand scale and public which is ready for Marco and [TS]

  credit for everyone else involved and you know to be clear I really messed up [TS]

  like I made a huge mistake but a huge mistake was launching the app it was not [TS]

  pulling it pulling it was my solution to the mistake the mistake was watching it [TS]

  that I should have I should have seen some warning signs ahead of time that [TS]

  you know I don't wanna sleep in this business or I won't be able to handle [TS]

  the heat I should have seen those warning signs and I didn't feel I was [TS]

  blinded by the idea of this cool app that I just made that I thought was [TS]

  working really well and that was very proud of so I did make that mistake but [TS]

  the mistake was launching it once the idea got my head I was feeling miserable [TS]

  for like to know that the two and a half days earlier and then once the idea got [TS]

  my head that you don't wait a minute I can just end this I can just pull down [TS]

  and get myself out of this and I knew it was going to be really messy I knew that [TS]

  it was a problem with apple juice into a problem with all the customers you know [TS]

  part of the reason why the Apple launched so well and and grow so quickly [TS]

  is because [TS]

  was I've been building a reputation for years and my audience for years and I [TS]

  knew they were gonna be a major cost to do that that I have died have lost a lot [TS]

  of people the next time I do anything even when overcast two ships hopefully [TS]

  sometime soon [TS]

  the next time I release anything or ask people to buy or look at anything I lost [TS]

  a lot of the reputation over the years now that a lot of those people will no [TS]

  longer buy it they won't look at it I'm gonna be hearing about this in emails [TS]

  and comments and tweets for years and people are still making butter coffee [TS]

  jokes I'm going to hear about this this for years the other aspect of the [TS]

  polymer all the bad things about it like the people who who applauded your [TS]

  decision like a lot of people like you know my respect for your Marcos increase [TS]

  are you doing this thing I'd ever subset of them are happy about it because they [TS]

  think a block is unethical and guess what guys market input because he's [TS]

  against that blocking right and so they're like oh well you know like so [TS]

  then maybe you lose those people to their there's still hope that majority [TS]

  of the people I didn't understand like this the person who made a mistake in [TS]

  public and fixed it decisively as fast as quickly as possible and like you know [TS]

  and again once you've made the mistake you can't unring that Bell you did ship [TS]

  the app but like the worst thing you could do is just like I don't know leave [TS]

  it out there for a week two weeks and then just like you would like two days [TS]

  right I don't I think that is it was one night wonderful day and then one morning [TS]

  so it was a total of about 48 hours there is a resume and and and and like [TS]

  so as soon as I decided that morning I decided well having my morning coffee [TS]

  and talking to my wife we were talking about like I really want to go to this [TS]

  i'd I wanna be done with this it was it was down within an hour and a half of [TS]

  that decision because I the only thing I want the only thing I had to do was I [TS]

  had to look at my contract with those three make sure you could do this and I [TS]

  want to call and ask them and the CEO of ghost tree super nice guy was on a plane [TS]

  coming back from Germany [TS]

  time [TS]

  but he has wifi so every email on his in-flight wifi was bothering him on a [TS]

  plane trip like we don't talk right now I'm that I got this business [TS]

  the app was was pulled within an hour and a half of me deciding that this is [TS]

  what I wanted to do and I would have done it sooner I was gonna be sued by [TS]

  anybody but it believe me I did not take the decision lightly and it would have [TS]

  been way more profitable [TS]

  you know if I got to keep the money it would've been way more profitable to [TS]

  just sit on it for a while and I and II know that's the thing is what a lot of [TS]

  people don't understand you know when I said that you know I didn't make Yahoo [TS]

  helicopter money which is true but that I now have i I have enough of a cushion [TS]

  now from from the timber sale that I don't need to take every opportunity I [TS]

  get to make money if it's something that I don't feel good doing I don't feel [TS]

  comfortable doing are they don't we want to working on I can pick and choose now [TS]

  and when I was writing that when I was actually talking about was making a [TS]

  podcast app because the time [TS]

  podcast apps for way smaller there today targeting was waste more than it is [TS]

  today and I really wanted to work on a podcast app but I knew it probably [TS]

  wouldn't make as much money as Instapaper was making or anything else [TS]

  that I could do more generally would make but the fact is I am I'm able now [TS]

  I'm fortunate enough that I can I can make a decision that is against my best [TS]

  financial interests but that is for my own mental health and for long-term [TS]

  habitation and for you know of avoiding problems in my life avoiding burnout [TS]

  times my family etcetera I can make decisions like this and I had to make [TS]

  one of those decisions for this to preserve myself I'm a programmer I'ma [TS]

  keep working hard technical problems and a blocking is not a particular problem [TS]

  is actually a very very very easy technical problem [TS]

  combined with a really really [TS]

  messy tricky political guilt-ridden problem of classifying sites and dealing [TS]

  with what is right and what is wrong and what is good and what is bad and all [TS]

  these impossible to solve decisions that's the a blocking business and [TS]

  dealing with really really angry people all the time that that is what this [TS]

  businesses it's really gross to me and I didn't think that through my mistake was [TS]

  launching it not canceling it so that the subset of people who made the people [TS]

  who are applauding you because they thought you had a change of heart about [TS]

  at blocking which you have not know I just don't want to be the one doing it [TS]

  right so the remaining people who applaud your decision basically you know [TS]

  basically showing sticking to your principles doing the decision that is [TS]

  bad for you and but doing it again ripping off a bandaid quickly instead of [TS]

  doing it slowly right I am trying to think of what distinguishes those people [TS]

  from the people who like will never forgive you I think what it comes down [TS]

  to as it very often doesn't things is empathy because the people who applaud [TS]

  your difficult decision to to have that feeling where you have to do is [TS]

  empathize with the personally imagine yourself in that situation imagine that [TS]

  you had made a mistake he would launch an application that you realized you [TS]

  don't want to be the person who make the application and it [TS]

  and and it's too late now and you know that any course of action is going to [TS]

  make a bunch of people unhappy and you know it's going to cost you money is [TS]

  gonna cause irritation or whatever if you can empathize with that if you can [TS]

  put yourself in my shoes and say boy that must have really sucked because you [TS]

  know I remember when I made a mistake and miscalculated how much I would like [TS]

  doing X&Y and after that I got myself stuck in it and then you're stuck with [TS]

  like well do I have to just you know well on it now I just gotta get through [TS]

  it or can i just imagine for example you took a new job and first weekend you go [TS]

  I made a terrible mistake this I am NOT happy this job I will never be happy [TS]

  this job do you quit after working there for a week there to be like that guy we [TS]

  hired they kinda quit in the first week don't hire him he's fighting he doesn't [TS]

  know what he was like that's a mistake you should not have taken that job i met [TS]

  that's a mistake that people can relate to read anyway [TS]

  empathy is what separates people people who are able to empathize with your [TS]

  situation said boy I feel bad I've been in a similar situation to understand [TS]

  what it's like and what I know the decision had to make this hard and all [TS]

  his decisions are crappy and it feels bad language you for justifiable reasons [TS]

  and therefore they say now Marco my esteem for you has risen because I [TS]

  understand what you like and the thing you just mentioned about you know Tumblr [TS]

  and being able to make podcast applications and and not having to do [TS]

  Instapaper past where you want to and stuff like that that really hurts [TS]

  empathy because people don't have empathy for people who are financially [TS]

  more well off than they do in general like that that is a theme that you know [TS]

  people but it is sometimes difficult to put yourself in the shoes of somebody [TS]

  who you think doesn't have what you think is one of your main sources of you [TS]

  no problem if you worry about money a lot you can and and you think I am a [TS]

  good smart hardworking person and this guy does not to worry about money at all [TS]

  and how how is he any better than me it's harder to add them to the is like [TS]

  how can you you know like all your problems whatever your problems in your [TS]

  life you Marco you like this well Marco may have stubbed his toe but about his [TS]

  money I wouldn't care about stood toe stepping right you know me like it it's [TS]

  very popular to turn down the embassy dial when somebody is more successful [TS]

  than you or has something that you want as if that why why does everything [TS]

  famous people like he's a celebrity well like I have no empathy for you know I'm [TS]

  a celebrity ever I was gonna say tempers of that salt and scientology I wanna go [TS]

  down that way and I'll jump in the rebel you know and Julia Roberts like you can [TS]

  say mean things about her while she's rich and famous if I was rich and famous [TS]

  nothing anyone could ever say would bother me or like I i don't have any [TS]

  sympathy for her she is the most you know she's beautiful she's rich she's [TS]

  famous like it's very easy to not have empathy when you feel that about people [TS]

  and so that i think is a factor in the exactly how angry people are about what [TS]

  you did because they they feel like you you know they can't put themselves in [TS]

  your shoes they can't they think that you know that they have to think that [TS]

  everything you do is sort of machiavellian and and it made to [TS]

  maximize your profit or there is a conspiracy theory or you are taking [TS]

  advantage of your position of privilege to screw other people like it had no [TS]

  thought the people who bought your application or you all you care about [TS]

  your feelings and so on and so forth like I get that I see I see that play [TS]

  out in this is a perfect a perfect little crucible for that to play out [TS]

  because it is legitimate mistake but it's a small mistake in terms of like [TS]

  impact on an individual right it's $3 like I don't get involved like you know [TS]

  they are you people are angry feel free to being a minor way but some people [TS]

  just so angry that it is and you would like for closed on their house in [TS]

  Clifton hey guys I got some guy threatened to sue me that was [TS]

  interesting to see how much lawyers charge that's more than three hours it [TS]

  thank ya know but like seriously I one of the lessons i'm taking away from this [TS]

  besides the [TS]

  previously expressed lessons about reconsidering what the heck I'm doing [TS]

  before I do it whether I want to be in the business of trying to be in it like [TS]

  it's a great concern like what if this succeeds like that's that's obviously [TS]

  the number one lesson that I have learned from this but down the list [TS]

  somewhere one of the additional lessons I learned from this do I really want to [TS]

  be allowing people to hold me hostage over $3 because that's the attitude is [TS]

  that there's a there's a psychological thing I probably heard about it from [TS]

  Merlin Merlin my psychology news but there's some kind of thing really people [TS]

  are are way way more reactive and feel way worse about about a loss of feeling [TS]

  like they they had taken from them then a missed games so if you said like you [TS]

  know i neva $3 oh no not you know that they don't feel as bad about that as if [TS]

  you take $3 from them something something like that of a premium if they [TS]

  had lost a version that you can just go to 200 studies trying to put you on [TS]

  Compal situations and saying hi to people felt really bad about the [TS]

  negative thing but not so bad about be lack of the positive thing to be [TS]

  homemakers you right there you go [TS]

  so everybody wants to read the correct version of the things about you but [TS]

  right now i i give people opportunities like that we're like by putting this out [TS]

  there I said please give me three dollars and in Sheen's you will get this [TS]

  app and of course than most people [TS]

  implicitly assume that you will therefore have this at be free and [TS]

  updated river as you give me that $3 an end so that's why they they got so angry [TS]

  when I pulled it two days later they don't perceive that I had stolen at [TS]

  three dollars from them the things that were said to me by so many people on [TS]

  Twitter you couldn't pay that person $3 to go tell a stranger that if somebody [TS]

  on the street and was like hey I'll give you $3 if you go over there and tell [TS]

  that person just how I just this horrible thing about themselves I just [TS]

  tell you that you've never gonna love you again like would you do that for $3 [TS]

  but people get so into this thing that like they they really it's like they're [TS]

  holding you hostage but their expectations and they they feel they [TS]

  really have this over you that that you know I'm you owe me this massive thing [TS]

  for my three dollars and the fact is I don't think I want to give people access [TS]

  to mice to me that way anymore I don't think I want to give you the chance to [TS]

  hold me hostage for that $3 anymore because you know what I don't want your [TS]

  $3 badly enough it's not worth it so I i'm gonna reconsider things I'm doing [TS]

  with that with that in mind I don't have a plan yet but that that was another bit [TS]

  of perspective I can from this that you know what if that's how you're going to [TS]

  treat your money then I don't want it [TS]

  the amount of just unbelievable bitterness over this $3 I i remained [TS]

  stunned and I find it kind of comical because I think to myself I go to the in [TS]

  this is just an example but I go to football games at my wife alma mater the [TS]

  University of Virginia know what you mean soccer or football no football like [TS]

  the one that is actually fun to watch [TS]

  finally you're taking a position now don't email me I know that american [TS]

  football is much lower it was just a joke everybody calm down anyway the [TS]

  point of driving it is I go to these football games and a soda at these [TS]

  football games as I believe three or four dollars a bottle of water I'm [TS]

  pretty sure see the 250 or $3 that's a bottle of water but it doesn't matter [TS]

  it's a whole different context whole different context it's just ridiculous [TS]

  to me like it but it is and you're right but it's $3 for a bottle of water that [TS]

  I'm literally away in an hour literally and these people like some of these [TS]

  replies that you got just unbelievably disproportionately and I think that's [TS]

  the real crux of it here [TS]

  disproportionately angry over the money not all of them in John went over a lot [TS]

  of this before and he's right but some of them are disproportionately angry [TS]

  about $3 and so [TS]

  my first thought was ok was there was a time when I had no freakin money just [TS]

  non we're going to McDonalds in getting myself like a Big Mac was a special [TS]

  treat and yes I know that's terrible for me but I don't need to hear about it at [TS]

  the time going McDonalds and getting myself a Big Mac was a special treat and [TS]

  I only allowed myself that once a month or once a week at most and i genuinely [TS]

  had to think about whether that's seven dollars whatever was was worth spending [TS]

  and even then I don't think I would have gotten this upset over $3 loss which [TS]

  ends up as it turns out not being lost and I think John really hit the nail on [TS]

  the head [TS]

  earlier when he said people just don't have enough empathy and these people [TS]

  seem to think that you mark over this infallible person that never makes a [TS]

  mistake in its bowl if you if that's just completely wrong that you might [TS]

  have made a mistake and clearly I mean you are infallible so this must be a [TS]

  money grab this is this is insane [TS]

  there's no other explanation and just people need to relax understand that [TS]

  people make mistakes and $3 probably isn't going to be the end of the earth [TS]

  on your $800 iPhone but they have the wider context the people who most me [TS]

  know the context they know a lot of copies of assault they know that the [TS]

  total amount is much more than their $3 and what they're really angry about is [TS]

  this guy who doesn't need my is much as them is getting a bunch of extra money [TS]

  and that makes them have less empathy for Marcos not as if they do write him [TS]

  off slow because I had everybody was richer than me know i'm saying is it for [TS]

  the people who are angry it lessens their ability to empathize because they [TS]

  feel like this very good thing is happening tomorrow go and just minor bad [TS]

  things happening to me but to smile about things like Steve Jobs like one [TS]

  second off the boot time this computer [TS]

  millions of people uses computer you're saving millions of seconds every time [TS]

  people booed up like it's it's you know at scale and they do the scale like him [TS]

  i three dollars in a big deal but he still three dollars from thousands and [TS]

  thousands of people he's basically a thief and this guy doesn't even need the [TS]

  money and it makes me even more angry and to some degree that's how I like [TS]

  people feel that all businesses everyone has seen the person is angry at the [TS]

  person serving them coffee at a coffee shop [TS]

  you know or at a store or whatever and they're out like a dollar fifty or [TS]

  whatever because they wouldn't accept that return because he was like all [TS]

  sales final like a stick of gum or something like you know what I'm never [TS]

  coming to this coffee shop again and whether that's true or not like they're [TS]

  willing to say you know this entire business you know you this is not [TS]

  ethical business you should have let me return the sticking gum like it's the [TS]

  principle it's not the dollar 50 at the principle that UN on ethical business [TS]

  and I'm never going to you know that's that's the power of the heavy the [TS]

  consumer in the hole you know customers always right thing we've all seen people [TS]

  get angry about that and in that case it's like the poor cashier is like you [TS]

  know just trying to do the job that owned the place or whatever someone who [TS]

  looks like they don't control the policies of the store they're just [TS]

  trying to do their job they get yelled at for the most part those businesses [TS]

  are like faces entities that people can be indignant angry about you know I'm [TS]

  just thinking like airlines where there's no more legitimate reasons to be [TS]

  angry like I've been delayed today for my destination and you know like I got a [TS]

  ticket on this flight but now you know oversold it and I have to check my back [TS]

  like whatever being mad businesses just on the murder case that he is the [TS]

  business it's a one-man business is the public face and it's not just like he's [TS]

  not wrong mcdonnell he is the actual he's not just a figurehead he actually [TS]

  does all the pushing buttons and key parts two and so it it's a bummer for [TS]

  Barco but like that that attitude is not unique to Marco it but it's exactly the [TS]

  same thing in the way that would people are really angry at the place wouldn't [TS]

  accept a return to the starting gun they're not thinking about the stores [TS]

  feelings because the store is the man and you know it's like the big faceless [TS]

  entity and may as well be the government Marco is the man in the bad way [TS]

  bad and so they like the man is sticking to me the man is taken three dollars and [TS]

  thousands of people and the man is you know screw us all over and so it's easy [TS]

  to get a self-righteous and indignant and angry at the man [TS]

  you don't spend a lot of time empathizing with the man and saying how [TS]

  does a man feel man said the demanding a mistake and now he has to do the you [TS]

  know something that he knows gonna make people even more angry at me like I'm [TS]

  sorry that's the divide some people are able to empathize and understand some [TS]

  people mistakenly thought the marcos now again that blocking and some people were [TS]

  more or less able to empathize and we're super angry about it and I think this [TS]

  all this will pass we covered all the positive negative income from it we all [TS]

  make mistakes it's a bummer we do it we can hopefully we'll all learn from this [TS]

  we can learn by proxy by Mark for Marcus mistakes marker can learn from his [TS]

  mistakes and we can all move forward together and finally get overcast 2.0 [TS]

  out with you ever stop loving pockets microphones this is a really good [TS]

  actually tonight they said her three sponsors this week Squarespace igloo and [TS]

  Mallory out and we will see you next week [TS]

  now the show they didn't even mean to begin was accidental [TS]

  accidental [TS]

  it was accidental [TS]

  shown to be a team are cool [TS]

  got the most important question are you going to make a peace fracture know yet [TS]

  a lot of people have asked this no I don't think I'm a planning to wear now I [TS]

  mean maybe in the future once it hurts less but right now it's it's too painful [TS]

  I can't do it what you should do is order the fracture suffered and throw it [TS]

  away [TS]