The Accidental Tech Podcast

142: Hateful Game of Frogger


  I'm running I'm almost at the bottom of my window it's like you know a little like the calm of icons I pretty much [TS]

  almost hold all the different slacks Iran. Yeah. My God I'm in three destiny slacks alone. Just for Destiny. [TS]

  Even before you show that like podcast. Tech friend. My work has one now. [TS]

  I think my work has multiple ones or only I'm one of them. Slack proliferation of the thing. [TS]

  So you aren't all the ones for work but you are in multiple destinies LAX you know. [TS]

  I'm not in all the destiny life that exist I'm just. Yeah people can get their act together with the best things like. [TS]

  Right so we want to actually talk about something that's relevant. Tonight. Do we ever really. [TS]

  Not really what is relevant. [TS]

  Yeah you pour didn't follow up that's not really follow up I guess you could even call it fall out. [TS]

  You have a new show how we couldn't. Yeah. [TS]

  Yeah I started a new developer pod cast with our friend underscore David Smith who is the. [TS]

  The app developer and podcast indexer extraordinaire. [TS]

  He and I talked about it last summer at the be reducible to summer W.B.C. [TS]

  Talk about doing it and then just you know life got in the way for both of us now we finally got it together [TS]

  and are doing it. And we publish our first episode today. So. So far it's doing well. [TS]

  Check it out it's called under the radar. And it's basically you know he had his show developing perspective. [TS]

  And he is now basically ended it. To do this is kind of the successor to that. [TS]

  I back in the day did build and analyze [TS]

  and so this is kind of the combination of those two shows it is kind of like the successor to build and analyze [TS]

  and developing perspective. It's really a developer focus show like this show is kind of more general Apple tech world. [TS]

  That show is really developers. And it's limited to only thirty minutes. So it's a quick. [TS]

  You know thirty minutes a week so it's not too. Time costly to subscribe so check it out. [TS]

  That's actually it's for developers developers developers. So at this point. It is unequivocal. [TS]

  That that all of us have shows on really a family and I know you have top form for this. [TS]

  And so this is this is what point do we join Really. I mean at this point we're pretty much there. People have asked. [TS]

  So I honestly it's we're talking about briefly if anybody actually cares about the answer. [TS]

  The answer basically is that we didn't start out really and there in there is not real like as much as we love. [TS]

  Really we don't really have a lot of reason to move A.T.P. [TS]

  There because it's already going on its own it's already independent. [TS]

  We already have our own ad sales and hosting and everything set up already. So there's not much reason to move it in. [TS]

  But starting a new show. [TS]

  David and I didn't even question with course we're going to hurt I really just because you know there's [TS]

  and I talked about pod cast networks before and I've been against them in certain ways and for them in certain others. [TS]

  And the reality is a pod cast network is a trade off you lose control. [TS]

  You lose some of the money and you lose some of the branding. [TS]

  But you get is you have to do a lot less work to make the shows. [TS]

  And so depending on what you need to show to do and what your priorities are [TS]

  and how much time you have that can determine kind of you know where you fall in that and so for this new show. [TS]

  Given where we were we decided network was the right move for our needs right now. That makes sense and. [TS]

  Folks are really really awesome. And they're all. [TS]

  They're all good friends of ours we really enjoy them so yeah I mean I think if A.T.P. [TS]

  Were to start tomorrow it probably would be unrelated but at this point don't don't fix what ain't broke so. Yep. [TS]

  All right so now we're done with fallouts asterisk not staircase approved let's do some follow up.. [TS]

  Somebody wrote in dust as it's got to be pronounced wrong because there's a fancy strike. Through the O.O. [TS]

  Masterson road into it's just the euro. Dust is Iran that's true. That is actually how I write zeros anyways. [TS]

  This individual said another thing about the Facebook app saying it all. [TS]

  Please videos in your timeline and even muted videos take over I.O.'s is Audioboo. This is. If you remember. [TS]

  Because Facebook claims that oh it was just an accidental bug that we had videos that played a never released the audio [TS]

  session and that's why we were backgrounded for forever. That still strikes me as a little weird. [TS]

  And a little aggressive for them to auto play videos but. I don't know. [TS]

  It seems like everyone's kind of starting to believe that this is really their net to to to not nefarious actions is [TS]

  that what the going theory is now. [TS]

  Well the fact that the auto plant was brought up by a couple people I just bought this one in there because like I said [TS]

  I didn't watch a video on the Facebook app and it's still eating my battery lol. [TS]

  You didn't probably watch a video as an intentionally tap on a little play button [TS]

  but if you just launch Facebook apparently and scroll through your timeline. It. [TS]

  You know it considers it will start playing it it will grab the audio session even if i guess even if you just scroll [TS]

  past that or whatever. [TS]

  So a lot of people are sort of unknowingly implicitly playing videos merely by launching the Happen scrolling through a [TS]

  timeline. Which would further explain why. [TS]

  You know that this audio session bug thing is biting lots of people even people who don't have any recollection [TS]

  or watching a video. They make sense. [TS]

  All right Jeff Strobel wrote in [TS]

  and told us that he knows how to have spotlight index his Snellen G eight hundred fifteen plus which Well I don't [TS]

  remember which one of us is talking about that because it wasn't me. [TS]

  I was exhausting Halleck one of the reasons why I like direct attached or ice because he over. Regular network shares. [TS]

  Is that regular network shares don't have the spotlight integration they don't have like system integration I just hate [TS]

  how slow it is to connect to and browse network shares. Still in twenty fifty even over wired gigabit networks. [TS]

  There are not so Jeff has the appropriate commands that are sitting in our show notes which are not helpful to [TS]

  listeners [TS]

  and reading this out will also be not helpful so we will link to something some way somehow that explains this exciting [TS]

  things question [TS]

  and answers I remember doing it back in one spot a source introduced like one of the bragging rights as ole even index [TS]

  your network of this is back in the F.P. Days. Believe even index or network shares. [TS]

  I don't know what the status of that is like if it doesn't do it by default a name or ever [TS]

  but bottom line is this command line tools where you can force it to is the empty you till command line in the empty [TS]

  import command line if you just read the man pages them you can figure it out will try to put a link to the Stock [TS]

  Exchange question in the show notes so you can fall through it and figure out how to enable it yourself. [TS]

  I don't know what it will be like I'm not even sure how it keeps up keeps track of what has been updated there does [TS]

  appear to be rescanned the whole drive anyway. Maybe you just have to run it on a schedule to rescan the drive. [TS]

  But if you. This is something you want to do. You can try it. Excellent. All right. [TS]

  And Rich night wrote in to ask us some questions about Google and stitcher. [TS]

  He says It seems that the biggest issue that you guys have with these apps applies equally to Google and stitcher. [TS]

  Is that they re host your files that impacts your stats [TS]

  and he lose control over quality making changes cetra My question is why do they bother. [TS]

  Let's imagine Google built the exact same app but without real sting. [TS]

  If they want to inject ads at the beginning at the end they can still do a client side they could still build [TS]

  interesting things like full text search. [TS]

  That John had mentioned by simply downloading your file wants to index it it wouldn't take off the publishers who would [TS]

  still have control over their files and download stats. Bandwidth costs shift back to the publishers etc etc etc. [TS]

  This is all good for them so what's the big benefit of Rio sting in the first place. So this is so and. [TS]

  You know this is again the pod cast things of legals pod casting with Google music they announced [TS]

  and detour the podcasting. Re hosting people's pockets file before serving them in the. [TS]

  There for requiring publisher approval and that I'm publisher Staton everything else. The main benefits are really. [TS]

  It comes down to control and consistency. If you re host the files yourself as the intermediary service provider. [TS]

  You can first of all you can guarantee that they will be there. And they will load quickly. [TS]

  Because if you just rely you know. Overcast isn't worth the overcast and most pod cast apps. Just degassed. [TS]

  They get the files directly from the publisher server which could be a terrible little web hosting box it could be a. [TS]

  nice C.D.N. It could be something very far away or very geographically close. And there's. [TS]

  So as wide variety in transfer speeds download speeds for progress files just come directly from publishers. [TS]

  So if you're running a service like Google Play music or stitcher you want like some kind of big integrated experience. [TS]

  You don't want to take the risk of wondering whether someone else's server will actually be will serve you the file at [TS]

  the moment that that user requests it. [TS]

  So that's the biggest reason and you don't know how quickly they will serve it to. [TS]

  So that's the biggest reason why they want to do this is also. [TS]

  You know there's other additional things you can do for instance like. [TS]

  Now you know Rich mentioned that Google is most certainly going to the transcription thing that lets you tube videos [TS]

  for search. And you could indeed. Fetch the file once. Do you know. [TS]

  Transcribe it and then continue to send people to the originals to download but then you have to like manage. [TS]

  Do I still have the most up to date copy it to pull it periodically to make sure you still the most up to date copy. [TS]

  And yet to update it if it changed. [TS]

  You never quite can be sure to Sara Lee If people going to get the exact version you got. Additionally. [TS]

  And this is actually one thing that that might be a problem for play music. [TS]

  One thing that's that's really taking off big time in in big podcasting And you know it's basically the public radio [TS]

  kind of shows the big name shows of a lot to download stuff. [TS]

  Is that dynamic ad insertion where every copy of the files they serve. Has a different set of ads in it. [TS]

  And the idea here is they want to capture So you know. Suppose they sell an ad for a sir. Number of downloads. [TS]

  They want to make sure that once those downloads have happened. [TS]

  They can put a different ad in there they've sold separately. [TS]

  And for lots of reasons I honestly don't think this is a very good idea. [TS]

  But regardless of what I think people are doing it. You know this is this is where a lot of the market is moving. [TS]

  And so if you make some secret requests to the same file on some of these big networks. [TS]

  You will get actually different copies of the file at different ads. That might even be slightly different lengths. [TS]

  So you can even link to a timestamp in the middle file because it might be a different time stamp for Tim who downloads [TS]

  it. Anyway. [TS]

  All of that is kind of messed up by systems like this that cache the file and everything [TS]

  but it also kind of throws a wrench in anything like overcast that assumes that the file will be generally the same. [TS]

  If you go to fetch it a second time. [TS]

  So there's justification on both sides for why you would read host files as a service provider versus why you would [TS]

  want to pass them through. Neither side is perfect as a publisher. [TS]

  I greatly prefer that they pass them through to two to us. You know but that is not necessarily their goal. [TS]

  Now makes sense and speaking of head and searching. [TS]

  Have you heard about people who put different ads into like their archive shows like they'll put their archive. [TS]

  Shows up in like a year later they'll go through [TS]

  and change all the ads in the year old shows exactly the same platform. Yeah exactly the same thing where. [TS]

  And that's what that's one of the. [TS]

  One of the ways they can justify you know our show doesn't we don't really do a lot of archive downloads because we are [TS]

  a topical news show most of the time. So. But there's a lot of shows out there. [TS]

  Kind of like the magazine style like human interest kind of shows that are fairly timeless [TS]

  and so those shows tend to get way more archive downloads. Than a show like ours. [TS]

  Sometimes those are even the majority of their downloads for say for certain kinds of shows. [TS]

  So they have different needs really like they if they tell an advertiser. [TS]

  You know we generally get to know the temper of downloads you want you want sponsor episode. [TS]

  You know two hundred or whatever. [TS]

  And it was a two hundred ends up in the archives getting five times as many downloads as usual because it had you know [TS]

  has longevity there. Then those publishers want to get more value out of that. [TS]

  I honestly think this is a bad idea because I think that those surpluses that happen here [TS]

  and there are actually already priced in to the premium C.P.M. [TS]

  Rate that we're able to get as POD casters compared to other media. [TS]

  So I think this is actually a terrible idea that this surplus has already been priced in [TS]

  and that we are actually eroding that by doing systems like this. [TS]

  And therefore I think it will almost certainly result in a noticeable drop in pod cast ads. Those but that's just me. [TS]

  I think about people listening to all that was sort of ever critical [TS]

  and I wonder like some most companies that we had for Slim business. Get over enjoy it's going to be the thing. [TS]

  And they aren't always you know like that like. There's obviously like. [TS]

  There is an argument to be made that you should be kind of reminded ties into. It sounds terrible. [TS]

  Re monetizing these old episodes after a certain number of users and a time you can make that argument [TS]

  but I think it will have negative effects that. [TS]

  I'm not sure people are are fully thinking through [TS]

  but it doesn't really matter because if enough of the market does this it leave road to C.P.S. Anyway. [TS]

  And so even if you aren't doing it. It will. [TS]

  It will be affecting you so you might as well do it now like the idea of like [TS]

  when you watch old television programs like the most fun is watching the period. Appropriate ads that run. [TS]

  Sensitive or going to be gone back so I remember Squarespace. Yeah. You know I'll be crazy. [TS]

  All right any other follow up there when you talk about Jon you have any other fallout that you'd like to cover. [TS]

  Don't even know what you're talking about Marco save me until we got something that's awesome. [TS]

  Well we're back to John because our first bunch of this week is Cards Against Humanity. [TS]

  And rather than doing the sponsor read bad John to review another toaster oven is a top down on the coast to coast [TS]

  stuff. So John what is this week's toaster oven. Toaster oven is it is this week's US or something. [TS]

  This is I think in the style just actually the name brand but anyway. It's than a style just like tricks. [TS]

  B S E T three hundred. The retro red variant. [TS]

  Three [TS]

  and one breakfast station before I continue with this I'm going to put one going to show notes are in the chat room you [TS]

  two should look at it. So I don't have to try to paint your word picture of the spawn Stross the Holy Mother. [TS]

  All right. Oh oh oh oh my god what is that all right. Oh yeah. You are. [TS]

  If you're listening to this and you are not driving [TS]

  or not in a situation where you will put people in danger by taking a moment to look at this picture. [TS]

  Then please take a moment to look at this picture because this is amazing. My God. So it's like. [TS]

  It's like a toaster oven. And it's red. [TS]

  I like the idea of these things being interesting colors because they're boring when they're gray or black. [TS]

  So someone has a nice kind of fire engine red. The toaster oven. [TS]

  Part of this thing is actually pretty small They show two slices of bread in at us kind of optimistic again miniature [TS]

  bread for the pictures. But that's not all there. In like the right side of the thing. [TS]

  Above the toaster oven is a non-stick griddle. [TS]

  Or what they call a non-stick griddle it so that no little bit here in the show eggs cooking on it [TS]

  and sausage causing it to the left of the toaster oven again this is all one unit these are not three separate things [TS]

  it's like a Steve Jobs i Phone six is a coffee maker. Like a filter. [TS]

  Drip coffee maker with a little coffee thing and so in the same appliance. [TS]

  Yes The I did that in this one thing you can toast your bread. [TS]

  Make your coffee cook your eggs and your sausages that's why it is a three [TS]

  and one breakfast station things done went out about this is it when you look at the picture. You. It looks crazy. [TS]

  But there is I know they put things in a picture like the miniature bread and eggs and sausage. [TS]

  But there's really no sense of scale here. If you think that coffee. [TS]

  The drip coffee mug it looks like you know a typical like you know eighty's kind of office drip coffee thing before I [TS]

  have a cake ups and everything. It is not a false I think it's like a doll's coffee thing that container. [TS]

  Holds maybe like a comp and I have two cups of hot water or coffee and it is not a full size think so it's very [TS]

  and I guess this is good because it was a full size coffee maker the thing would be huge right. [TS]

  And same thing with the grid all very small so it's strange and it's like maybe if you live alone [TS]

  and you just want to make yourself. [TS]

  Coffee and you want to make yourself drip coffee with like little filters and everything. [TS]

  As you can do with the same so the controls get it for those functionality this is the one tell us it said you know we [TS]

  don't need three hundred two knobs it's funny which on the bottom of the switch on the bottom. [TS]

  It's like a toggle switch. [TS]

  And that just turns the coffee thing on [TS]

  or off like basically do you want me to heat up the heating element that heats the water for the coffee or do you not. [TS]

  So that's independent the top tile is a thing that lets you turn on [TS]

  and off the elements the things got for guarded elements to on the bottom to the top. [TS]

  You can say only bottom only top or top and bottom are off those your settings there [TS]

  and then the second knob is temperature. And the temperature novice fairly hilarious. [TS]

  If you can zoom in on the Amazon then you can see that the light medium [TS]

  and dark settings for toast are within like three degrees of each other on the dial. [TS]

  Like the whole rest all my life for all the stuff. And this is not an accurate. [TS]

  Like it was a surgical instrument you could say and I between medium and dark. [TS]

  This so much slop in the doll like the three dots are within the margin of error. Like the flop on the dial. All right. [TS]

  But here's the biggest problem with this device. And I actually I don't drink coffee. So I just made hot water. [TS]

  Well what am I going to jail and I'm and I'm dirty up of the filters and everything [TS]

  but the idea behind it seems to be that rather than. [TS]

  You know for space savings and to have like all your stuff happening in one spot if you have a like a small kitchen [TS]

  or you just want to like why waste all the space you know you can do this thing right so there's a lot of problems that [TS]

  thirty first is there's not room on top of a toaster depending how low your cabinets are the distance from the top of [TS]

  the telestrator the bottom of your cabinets. May not be that big. [TS]

  And you really don't want anything that's going to put off steam [TS]

  or like spatter from from sausages are really just like there's a reason they have vents on top of the cooking services [TS]

  you don't want there to be like a an aide ensure a one foot gap between your cooking sausages in the bottom of your [TS]

  counters going to coat them with Greece [TS]

  but it turns out that's not that big of a problem because the way the things works is you can. [TS]

  Like there's no separate control you just take like which elements you want to turn on so if you want all the elements [TS]

  on the top on the bottom ones. And you turn the dial turn it on those for he Amen. [TS]

  That's it except for the coffee thing. [TS]

  And they have to fulfill the job of toasting the bread and also heating the griddle on top. [TS]

  They're not up to that task. Wow. You blow if you know they didn't blow a fuse they're just not up to the task. [TS]

  Basically my bread that I put in to get toast out came out is baked bread. [TS]

  Because it's just slow and it just slowly heats and dries and heats and dries bread [TS]

  and eventually kind of sort of browns that in the time you get a model like little bricks. Like it's not. [TS]

  Not a good toaster. Takes a really long time. [TS]

  And they don't they don't toast you want to be toasted in crispy on the outside but not like totally be hydrated right. [TS]

  And the second problem is the only things that are heating the grill part of the top two elements. [TS]

  And they're not enough they just you know. [TS]

  The instruction guys like oh you should preheat it for five minutes [TS]

  or I don't appreciate the time doing that I'm losing the whole convenience thing. [TS]

  So I cooked an egg on top of the same and it was the worst like it just did not get hot enough to really cook the egg. [TS]

  And by the way the service on top of this is like. Payloads like a pill quilt. [TS]

  You know like a bunch of little rounded rectangle lumps all over it I don't understand what the polling is there for [TS]

  all it does make it more likely that your egg is going to stick through has more certain. And crannies to go into. [TS]

  Maybe it's a degree from your sausages to drain out or something. Anyway. [TS]

  Terrible for cooking eggs just does not get hot enough fast enough. Doesn't get hot enough period and. [TS]

  I don't see any extra convenience [TS]

  and the coffee maker thing is totally disconnected from the toaster in the griddle might as well be separate because [TS]

  it's just like well this is a very small opacity think that he's hot water for drip coffee. [TS]

  So just like anything that was a slot toaster until Strabane this multi-function device does not have its functions [TS]

  or maybe like to say maybe it does the coffee thing well maybe it is a sent good single serving drip coffee thing [TS]

  but I really doubt it. [TS]

  All I can say is that it does boil the water in a reasonably timely fashion because hey it's only a boy like one cup of [TS]

  water. Probably isn't boiling. Go ahead. And it did. Well here probably not. And it did. [TS]

  Didn't blow a circuit or anything but it really should have because if you. [TS]

  It just was not getting hung up the top and here wondering how the hell you wash a thing. [TS]

  The griddle top thing comes right off which seems weird maybe if you take it off and turn the toaster [TS]

  and you've got hot heating elements on help is there any way. [TS]

  It comes off and you can clean diesel A about the I guess I can say about this the door. [TS]

  Until the thing I say about it is that it's cute. [TS]

  Like this is a cute thing the fact that it's red and it looks kind of like I don't know. [TS]

  I thought it was a cute appliance so it would look good in the background of a of a movie or sitcom [TS]

  but don't actually use it to heat up any of your food to make it better to eat. [TS]

  Cannot recommend even its bargain price for three different lines is the combination of only seventy dollars. [TS]

  Doesn't seem that ridiculous. That's. I wouldn't spend seven hundred dollars misspeak you don't. [TS]

  You can get a good toaster. For less money than that. This is not a good toaster is not going to do anything. [TS]

  So I don't I don't. If I have this in my house I don't know what I would use it for. I would use it for nothing. [TS]

  If I paid you seventy dollars to keep it on your counter would you not on the counter space. [TS]

  Oh I forgot to mention there's also a lid. That goes on the griddle thing on the top. [TS]

  And I only can only assume that's like look we know the thing to get hot enough for you [TS]

  but the lid on it will steam your eggs at least until I actually kind of cook. [TS]

  So my final question on this is this is from this brand called Nostalgia electronics [TS]

  and they appear to have a whole different line of things but was this kind of thing ever. [TS]

  A thing that people use like it kind of implies that this is an old appliance they're bringing back [TS]

  and missed out your butt. Was this kind of a points ever really used by anybody ever. I think. [TS]

  I assume the than a Stoddard brand is only loosely connected with the theme of actual missed Alger [TS]

  and Highwood I'm guessing based on the appearance that. [TS]

  Just the idea is make it look like appliances look at another there was a specific appliance like this [TS]

  and it does like with the script lettering and the red metal [TS]

  and everything it does look like a little bit of a throwback [TS]

  but it was that plastic thing on top of the coffee maker that doesn't quite look right [TS]

  but it does kind of fit in with the sort of fifty's sixty's. Saif I like the get you know the future automation. [TS]

  And you know it does fit in even of the never made one of these things. It totally fits with that same. [TS]

  Especially with the fact that it doesn't work with them just like every one of the future things they made up in the [TS]

  fifty's and sixty's. That is called a saddle Actrix. Because I think like there is no way to use this. [TS]

  And not be sad somehow either. [TS]

  Either just using it because your life situation somehow led you to buy and own one of these things or. [TS]

  You are sad because it's performances so bad that you are sitting there eating your baked bread [TS]

  and under-cooked sausage and just makes you set it on a chat room or posting the positive [TS]

  and negative Amazon reviews I can't believe there are positive ones. [TS]

  I'm not being like joking [TS]

  when you factor I just cannot believe anyone would find any part of the satisfactory except like that maybe. [TS]

  I wanted to drip coffee maker that only made enough coffee for one and a half people and finally I found. [TS]

  Yeah you know a cure it gives insufficient they really want that drip coffee. Yeah yeah. Well. [TS]

  Well I did I did not know what toaster this was going to be before the show started [TS]

  and I'm glad I didn't because that is magnificent. I hadn't before before we before we wrap up the toaster things. [TS]

  Two things in this one. I finally people have been asking me. And I've been asking for this entire run of ads. [TS]

  What do I do with all the old souls old toasters and my answer for a long time had been nothing. [TS]

  We don't have any plans of writing with all those years of Angele got to the point where I had just too many gigantic [TS]

  toaster boxes miles I needed them to go away. And so now the toasters have gone away. I don't know where they went. [TS]

  But a nice person came to my house and took ten toasters. [TS]

  Jammed into a giant truck and took them away from my house so there. On I no longer have them. [TS]

  When I was taken me ten toasters and sending them away. I found this box. Unopened. [TS]

  I hadn't realized that I had an extra on open box this is like finding the strange treasure like wait a second this one [TS]

  still sealed up. Good I never opened this one. And I opened it and this is the on holy thing that came out. [TS]

  So I don't even know [TS]

  when I got the stuff all the way with the rest of the toasters like the Ark of the covenant the end of Indiana Jones. [TS]

  Couple of simple terms you. [TS]

  At the end of rate is a lost art which is not having any I don't pretty sick see what you've done to me now by any [TS]

  chance. Did you have a coffee maker box near them. [TS]

  Me I'm thinking maybe there was some hanky panky going on in this came out. Wow Yeah. Anyway. [TS]

  So this is the second to last poster of this Ron we've got one more left this year I think. [TS]

  So I don't have to get rid of these posters [TS]

  and so that's where they go they go away from my house so I can set my car on the driveway. [TS]

  I don't even know where to go from here. Well thanks and thanks to Cards Against Humanity. For sponsoring our show. [TS]

  Once again. Well. So we just been here. [TS]

  I mean we have other things to talk about we have other sponsors but where do we go. [TS]

  I mean going to go downhill from here like the. How do we talk. What do we really do. Why good and it's alright. [TS]

  So we do have things to talk about. And most specifically. We have some Apple T.V. Things to talk about in the end. [TS]

  I don't know how much I can contribute to this because I'm holding strong and not buying the Apple T.V. [TS]

  That I'm sure I'm going to buy sometime between now and Christmas. He didn't even order it. [TS]

  I thought you would find out you were surely audited at least now I think imma try to hold out for Christmas last [TS]

  Hanukkah gift but we'll see how it goes. You know the Plex app is out right. Yes. [TS]

  Plex is out which is why I am not really. Not really holding too strong on this. And I've heard it's really good. [TS]

  Which is not helping me. Keep in mind also that the way Apple's product release cycle and pricing works. [TS]

  Is that you're not be. You're getting. Anything by waiting. If you're going to buy this model of Apple T.V. Ever. [TS]

  You should buy it now. [TS]

  Yeah you're right but I mean I don't I figure they're like I said it's holiday time coming up [TS]

  and this is the sort of thing that I do kind of want [TS]

  but I really don't feel like spending money on in part because I really don't want to mess with my audio set up that we [TS]

  went through last week and yes there are options like the little kooky box that we found last week [TS]

  but I don't want to mess my set up a lot of people. [TS]

  Maybe this is completely reasonable and I'm a weirdo but a lot of people wrote to me via Twitter and we're like. [TS]

  Do you just leave your old Apple T.V. Execs it where it is. [TS]

  I don't have to do that men don't like this is his thing where you can read you can use your old Apple T.V. [TS]

  As an airplay speaker for your new one. That's exactly what they're saying and I'm just like why. [TS]

  That seems so crazy to me that that's the best course of action is to leave this old Apple T.V. [TS]

  That I really will almost never use anymore. [TS]

  Leave that plugged in because that's the best scenario I'm not saying it's unreasonable for Apple to take away my [TS]

  optical connection which is the thing that I'm all upset about this. [TS]

  They probably did the right thing here it's probably silly to leave that optical connection on the new Apple T.V. [TS]

  and That's why they pulled it. So I'm not. [TS]

  I hope I don't sound like one of those people that's like oh well they change that one thing I needed [TS]

  and they're wrong no they're not wrong they're right on the one that's crazy. [TS]

  But I'm crazy and I like having my optical connection so. In any case I'm sure I will get an Apple T.V. [TS]

  I'm sure it will be in twenty fifteen and we'll see if I end up paying for it myself or just getting it as a gift. [TS]

  Stand strong with Sony Philips to google interface is L S P D I O Yeah yeah. [TS]

  I didn't know that's what it stood for you ever see it written F. Last P.D.F. Yeah yeah I don't need Flash Phillips. [TS]

  Did you. All interface. [TS]

  I did not know that was the acronym there yakka sone in fellows they work together and also like the CD [TS]

  and all sorts of like to get a lot of those stuff and so they standardize this thing forever ago it's really old. [TS]

  And yes the Sony Phillips digital interface. Today I learned. [TS]

  Anyway so what we have to talk about with this are what do you guys have to think about with this. [TS]

  I got I got my Apple T.V. Today actually. So I have unpacked it and set it up and bit of a hurry before the show. [TS]

  But I also at C.N.N. [TS]

  The Apple story was so I actually have some real world experience with this thing and I have to say after reading. [TS]

  Everybody stories and listening to what they had to say about the Apple T.V. [TS]

  Specifically the set up experience I was prepared for the worst. [TS]

  Like I was repaired for like we do we you my Gratian level of nightmare that. [TS]

  One of the things this thing does it know if they opened it as well and I remember is when you take out of the box [TS]

  and plug it in. It wants you to bring your i Phone near it and make sure Bluetooth is on your i Phone. [TS]

  And just hold it near the thing and it will sort of figure out what wife I network your phone is on. [TS]

  And connect to the same life I network and use the same password and all that other stuff. So the Apple T.V. [TS]

  Can get on the same network and. That part work for me. [TS]

  I plug be able to be and I brought my phone over to I unlock my phone couple. Wait if a couple seconds. [TS]

  Tapped a little dialog box on the phone [TS]

  and it found my network which doesn't really matter because I haven't plugged into you know anyway so I was seem like [TS]

  kind of a waste but anyway. That part worked. And then I. Some point I signed in with my Apple I.D. Password and. [TS]

  I had to use a terrible keyboard that everybody hates which is not so much a keyboard as a key line. A through Z. [TS]

  In a single horizontal strip. [TS]

  And there's another row punctuation another row with switch to capital or lower case [TS]

  and by the way if you hold down the button on their mode you can get capital letters about having to switch from [TS]

  capital or a case. [TS]

  That is very painful to use I'm not entirely sure but some more painful than the old way where you had to hit. [TS]

  Like because you have a swipe ipad you can swipe quickly from the left or the right and skip multiple letters. [TS]

  Instead of having to go. A B. C. D. E. Like you can go swipe one thing go be all way I'd like JR. Whatever. So I don't. [TS]

  I think the touch pad is useful for that. [TS]

  And I don't understand why they made a strip like there's not enough room on a screen to get the whole rest of the [TS]

  screen there maybe maybe with the rest of the U.I. Apps it was better that way anyway. [TS]

  Because I only had to undermine the ID. I had an inverter a couple times but not an obscene number of times. [TS]

  It didn't seem that ridiculous to me. So I enter my Apple ID. I watch Netflix I had to sign with my Netflix ID. [TS]

  It's kind of a shame that it can get all this information from the previous Apple I.D. [TS]

  or From Michael key chain or from any other place that. [TS]

  In the Apple ecosystem that is supposedly has secured storage of you know the password this seems like is the main [TS]

  thing people were complaining about. I got asked about their passports too often. The passwords are hard to enter. [TS]

  And if you haven't read these articles you may be wondering why they just use the I was remote app. That doesn't work. [TS]

  Now. Yeah I was remote out does not work with a new album where he does not work yet and they get to make it work. [TS]

  I don't know. Doesn't work now. So doesn't help you if you're setting up your Apple T.V. Now. [TS]

  And that's a legit complaint like. It's a regression. From the old version of the product. [TS]

  It's a pain to use any kind of on three. Screen keyboard. And the onscreen keyboard the have Seems pretty stupid. [TS]

  I find with a little swipe the remote. [TS]

  It's hard for me to swipe up [TS]

  and down I don't know why it's not registering it just takes it if I'm going across like [TS]

  when I want to swipe down to the next row of things or something to the punctuation. It.. [TS]

  Just doesn't you know I feel like it stuck a lot. You can also by the way if you have the new Apple T.V. [TS]

  You can tap on it like it's a deep had not pressed it always down to it physically clicks [TS]

  but just tap like touch the surface and zip it's a virtual D.. [TS]

  Pad and that works as well in most places and as Apple T.V. [TS]

  There's a little bit of a learning curve I feel like would be able to get spent a while the remote [TS]

  and try to discover all the possible. [TS]

  Sort of combinations where you click on the left side of the remote and click on the right side path [TS]

  and a left tap on the right swipe up slap down swipe from the top swiped from the bottom. [TS]

  A surprising number of interesting inputs. [TS]

  All hampered by the fact that remote is really too small an arc with a shaped [TS]

  and not the best thing in the world hold on to but always say that my sort of experience wasn't that bad [TS]

  and I was mostly pleasantly surprised by the variety of ways that you can interface with the thing to speed it felt [TS]

  faster to me to navigate around than my old Apple T.V. That could just because you didn't have to use I.R. [TS]

  and Bluetooth has less latency in that it could just be because it's much faster C.P.U. [TS]

  or Whatever [TS]

  but it felt pretty good to me I maybe I was like primed to like with all the better views I was expecting the worst. [TS]

  But I gotta say I would much rather have this than my previous Apple T.V. and A that week. [TS]

  Well that's that's a much more positive review than a lot of what I've heard I haven't read any To my recollection [TS]

  but I listen to this week's Talk Show with Jon and Guy English and he seems like that's it's good [TS]

  but it's got a lot of problems. This week's upgrade. With with Jason snow and Mike Hurley and Joe Steel. [TS]

  They were in various levels of frustrated to Furious I'd say. And I don't know which is. [TS]

  I'm looking at it from an outsider's point of view in the sense that I don't have one I haven't done hours of research [TS]

  into the specifics of what it offers because really the only thing I care about the most part is plex. [TS]

  I just feel like I saw an inordinate amount of grumbling on Twitter and. And it seemed like everyone. [TS]

  Everyone was really really grumbly about it and maybe that's my own biases that are surfacing [TS]

  and maybe it's not that bad but you know Jesse Charlier today was saying that that it's really a great device [TS]

  and everyone's just being a bunch. And that very well could be. [TS]

  But I don't from the outside it seem like with the watch really Several was like hey this is cool. [TS]

  You know it's got some issues but it's cool. [TS]

  And with this it seem like all man this is nothing but issues to almost everyone. [TS]

  Well I wouldn't say that I mean this is different. So we've all you know many of us.. [TS]

  People who have been fans of the Apple T.V. So far we've been using the Apple T.V. For years. [TS]

  And it's been pretty much the same like most of it has not really changed much at least since the introduction of the [TS]

  second gen one and a lot of it even began before that. It's you know it's been really the solid thing and... [TS]

  Like for me the Apple T.V. Is by far the most common device that we use for the T.V. It is our T.V. [TS]

  You know because we don't have cable or cable cutter heard those annoying people. We don't like the Apple T.V. [TS]

  Is our everything. Like I have an Amazon Fire T.V. On the front T.V. I have a Roku on the back T.V. and. [TS]

  We never actually switch to those for almost any purpose. [TS]

  Except the Amazon one will switch to to use Plaxo Farleigh Now I want you to do that anymore [TS]

  but the fact is it's different you know the remote. I think has some issues. [TS]

  It is it is unquestionably more capable in general and you know it can do more things. [TS]

  And some of the big ones obviously are Syrian volume control. [TS]

  But it also you know if there it has a call Robin or is it has the touch pad which can be. [TS]

  You know more more different levels of input or more different kinds or Dereck. [TS]

  Of input then just a very clear Deepak could be. But I do feel like. In my opinion. It is a step back from a deep had. [TS]

  In general. Usability of the things we've used the T.V. For so far. [TS]

  So who knows where the absence of will go in the future. You know we don't we don't know that yet. [TS]

  Time will tell whether absolute take advantage of of it being a touchpad not just a directional control. But today. [TS]

  Using the Apple T.V. The way you've always used it before. It feels very imprecise. [TS]

  And one of the problems with the key line. Text input. And we are typing these amounts on this keyboard. [TS]

  There's a high cost to miss typing anything. [TS]

  Because you have to like you know then go find the delete key or if you hold it down as one of the hold down menu [TS]

  but it's kind of hard to do and especially if you're new to the control. [TS]

  So you need to be very precise on that keyboard because the cost of making an error is annoying. [TS]

  But that's the first thing you really need to do in terms of his type in your password a few times. [TS]

  And that is the time when you have the least experience with the new remote. [TS]

  So your very first interaction with the thing is set up to make you basically hate the remote I hate inputting text [TS]

  into it [TS]

  and I who knows what they can do what they could've done to fix that I think obviously better integration with with an [TS]

  i Phone to use the i Phone keyboard like the old remote Apted would have been nice. [TS]

  I hope they do something that in the future. [TS]

  It's not there now and that is unfortunate but for me so far like like when you pick up the remote. [TS]

  Let's say there but falls in the couch. You pick it up. [TS]

  It is incredibly hard to pick it up without accidentally seeking the video that you're in. [TS]

  Because you pick it up and if you if your finger brushes that touch pad area at all. [TS]

  You seek the video they're watching. And so there's little issues like that of like accidental input. [TS]

  These issues with the key line and navigation of just imprecision. Because it's a touch pad like. [TS]

  Honestly if they made this remote. With a regular Up down left right deep had kind of buttons like the old one. [TS]

  As an option in that top area instead of the touchpad. I would choose that option. No question. [TS]

  And maybe a get maybe in the future. If ab start really needing to touch pad and taking good advantage of it. [TS]

  That might change but right now. I think everything with the new remote.. [TS]

  That that you think of as things you do on an Apple T.V. [TS]

  Things like navigating things like Netflix and night and everything. [TS]

  Those kind of things in my opinion are made worse by the touch pad not better. Have you tried to use your old Apple T.V. [TS]

  Remotes. With the new Apple T.V. Because my understanding is it does have an R. Receiver and that does work. [TS]

  Yeah you can. Yeah and. Which is nice because like we have a universal logic tech harmony thing. [TS]

  And so that can control it also because it works. It'll accept the old kind of input from all the older modes. [TS]

  So that's nice but then you don't have things like Siri. Kind of miss out on some of the new features so again. [TS]

  Time will tell how this all shakes out. [TS]

  Chances are we're probably August and get used to it and it will probably blow over. [TS]

  But I don't think that takes away from that there are downside you know it's very similar in so many ways. [TS]

  Very similar to the force to extract pad which I finally got to try the full size one. Yesterday an app store. [TS]

  And I actually was about as I expected it and neither was the keyboard. Actually at the keyboard but in the trackpad. [TS]

  And if that's the future keyboard of Apple laptop which I assume it will be. Then it's on that. [TS]

  And the trackpad all the force touch stuff it's always like almost good enough. [TS]

  But in my opinion has said many times before it's. It's not quite there. [TS]

  So it is kind of a step backwards in reliability and pursuit [TS]

  and I think the touch feel sucks on the force extract that and the full sized one. [TS]

  No different from all the different settings in the App Store. It feels in my opinion the click feels awful. [TS]

  Even worse in laptops I think it's a horrible feeling click. [TS]

  But they've made this thing you know thinner more advanced more complicated. [TS]

  And they've achieved something that is almost as good as the old one. [TS]

  I think that's probably what's going to happen with the touch pad remote. [TS]

  That they they've added always keep abilities. [TS]

  By making it a text that even that isn't for stock in our computers too but they've added to keep billets by making it. [TS]

  You know a touch pad instead of just up down left right buttons. But the basics of like you're operating this thing. [TS]

  Imprecisely. Often in the dark. Often without looking at it. It's less reliable. [TS]

  And that I think is is always going to have a baseline level of slight frustration for a lot of people. [TS]

  And more frustration for geeks like me who are very picky about such things. [TS]

  Even though it will offer us more capabilities. [TS]

  You know on the previous shows I complained about all the things that are still wrong with throughout before I had laid [TS]

  eyes on it are before I touched it. [TS]

  That's also true it shouldn't be shaped the way it is it's way too small it's not it's not made for to be easy to grip. [TS]

  Mark of took elect about accidentally touching the touch pad it symmetrical more or less it symmetrical. [TS]

  You know as a buttons are kind of in the middle. [TS]

  So you can even feel your way to which way is the right way to pick it up [TS]

  and if you try to feel which side is right by perhaps feeling the different texture of the Touch Pad nothing. [TS]

  If you happen to feel around and it's touch bedside yeah you're going to move the video. [TS]

  All that stuff the stupid it shouldn't be shaped like this it should be bigger it should be something that eggnog is [TS]

  that people are going to grab it with their hands the button should be different sizes and shapes and textures [TS]

  and positions and all that is true. [TS]

  But specifically on the issue of the Touch Pad versus that a bad thing like that I have trouble. [TS]

  I don't understand why this is maybe just because of the way moving my thumb I have trouble doing up down left [TS]

  and right I can mostly get it to do it every time but up down have a little trouble. [TS]

  But here's the here's the reason I think it's better than the pad. [TS]

  Are better than the previous album Alyssa first thing. Piers Albert did not have a deep pad in the Nintendo sent. [TS]

  It had a circle. [TS]

  And I hated that I could never feel my way towards what was exactly up and left [TS]

  and downright And yes if you like well you're feeling the edges of the remote don't you know that left is perpendicular [TS]

  to the left edge [TS]

  and right as you know it like very often it just didn't feel security as an actual deep had risen to the ranks will be [TS]

  peasants across the cross it piece of plastic you can feel. [TS]

  Where the left for the right as long as you make that you had big enough [TS]

  and like the stupid tiny one in the Game Cube controller which was impossible to tell us your action you're pressing [TS]

  even though it was across anyway. I didn't like that circle. But setting that aside. [TS]

  Even if you're comparing it to a full size good deep had the most important thing is this this Touch Pad has despite [TS]

  the fact that they're not as the wrong shape despite the fact that kind of hard to like a reach to the touch pad area. [TS]

  Over all the buttons and everything and safely and safely get to it without actually swiping [TS]

  when you pick it up the most important thing in houses. Gets you out of the. [TS]

  The nightmare realm of controlling anything on your television which used to be right up on Apple T.V. [TS]

  and On your actual television and I never use the roguery most writing I got so I don't know what they like [TS]

  but for the longest time doing any television. All you had was button presses. [TS]

  And so any time you were faced with anything that had a lot of stuff on the screen. And you wanted to go through it. [TS]

  But you wanted to be able to select any one of those things whether it's letters in the alphabet. [TS]

  List items in a big list or anything like that you don't have to go. Next next next next next. Right right. Up up. [TS]

  DOWN DOWN LEFT LEFT FOR YOU do the contra code try to get to the thing that you want your screen. [TS]

  You never had a way to go more than one thing. And so. Yeah on the Tivo they did smart things like hate on this menu. [TS]

  It's such a pain to go. You know. [TS]

  Through the whole the use channel up and challenge down to go page at a time [TS]

  but even that was like discrete it's discrete versus continuous having a touchpad having [TS]

  and adding a little bit of momentum is incredibly freeing. [TS]

  Because if you see something that's at the very top of the very left a very right you can flick over to it [TS]

  and yes not going to be precise. But it's so much better than having to to go. [TS]

  One two three four five six seven one two three five one two three four five six seven. Mentally. [TS]

  Even if not speed wise even if you were to stop watching me I was actually slower. [TS]

  Mentally speaking it feels better to me not to be stuck in this like hateful game of Frogger across the road. [TS]

  Are you going to hop hop hop hop hop. [TS]

  Now the touchpad the chose to do it on the shape of the touchpad the fact that like bends down the fact the whole top [TS]

  of the remote is made of glass. The feel of the physical click and everything. [TS]

  All that is bad but I'm here to defend the concept of finally divorcing the television from a discrete single step [TS]

  or a single page of a time interface because you finally have more. Just buttons. [TS]

  And the sort of advance things that I was talking about market you should try this it doesn't help with the accidental [TS]

  swiping for a scrubbing is all terrible. But use it like at the pet. [TS]

  Don't try to do the swiping Eventually I gave up on getting my thumb to correctly so I pop in down to get the to the [TS]

  apple tree to register it. Just use it as if it's the pen. [TS]

  I like it because you don't have to press always down to really don't like that click like trying to play cross your [TS]

  own speaking of on the thing. Or out those adventure. [TS]

  I didn't like having to press down all Rick I wish these game developers had accepted attachments that have a quick [TS]

  because I don't like hearing that it's pretty noisy [TS]

  and it doesn't feel good doesn't feel good as a game controller at all to feel flag and it doesn't you know. [TS]

  I don't like it but I just touch the touch pad of the left or go left. [TS]

  Touch a touch pad on the right to go right touch that top of the touch pad to go up touch the bottom of the touch pad [TS]

  to go down. Don't click it just touch it. If you. If you want to go. I rather go right right right down down down. [TS]

  You can do that much faster if you don't have to actually physically depress the button. So I am pro. [TS]

  Having something I can swipe to navigate. And I am pro having something that registers my touch. [TS]

  To do interesting things. [TS]

  The particular implementation on this remote is not ideal but I would still rather use this remote than the old one. [TS]

  It's not a humongous win. [TS]

  But it's a big enough when that I would never like because you know I still have my regular Apple T.V. [TS]

  Remote with a circle on it which I never use. I would never thought that for this one. And I probably wouldn't swap. [TS]

  The T.V. or That I was using with my old Apple T.V. [TS]

  With this one because that you know like Marcus said you're missing a serious button but even just I just I just enjoy. [TS]

  Not being in the business of hitting a button repeatedly to go. An integer number of screen items. [TS]

  Away from where I was. [TS]

  I can't wait for all the tweets and e-mails you get about the Konami code being referred to as the contract [TS]

  and now that's a valid alternate name for it and the oh yeah. [TS]

  But you know the nerds are going to come out and they're going to be angry. Now. Our second sponsor this week. Harry. [TS]

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  So any other thoughts on the Apple T.V. I do have more. So many thoughts or an hour of using this thing. [TS]

  I'm surprised a lot of people have asked me about the video scrapping I've talked about my anger with how videos [TS]

  covering works in most television. Attach devices and these days. Also with many things that are in web pages or. [TS]

  I Phones and. [TS]

  I have heard a lot of the reports about the able to be [TS]

  and how you say they all seem to be true I describe exactly the way I wanted it always wanted to be done. [TS]

  And this is another instance where the little swipe you Pad comes in handy. [TS]

  One of the worst things about video scrubbing with with if you just have buttons. Is you know like. [TS]

  If you go to the end of the movie or like was a scene in the middle I want to look at the thing again. [TS]

  All you can do is perhaps. Press the you know. Rewind button multiple times to go like one X.P. Ten X.P. Twenty X. [TS]

  Speed and it's going really fast and you have to hit the pause button so you don't overshoot it [TS]

  or you try to slow it down like. It's difficult to drive the little. [TS]

  The play head and that way with the series of buttons. [TS]

  And the other difficulty have a complaint about as if you want to go to the middle of the thing or jump back. [TS]

  Half an hour or something like that very often. [TS]

  Attempting to navigate it all just causes the holding to freeze [TS]

  and essentially do the television app equivalent of beach ball where it's trying to load the video where the thumbnail [TS]

  or want to show you a frame of video you like just go to thirty minutes then you feel like you know you wish you could [TS]

  have somebody who can just type three zero colons zero zero go through that offset now. [TS]

  Don't do anything else don't try to show me the video sliding past. I don't care what you do.. [TS]

  I just want you to move that little play had thirty minutes. And the Apple T.V. [TS]

  At least playing like all the things that I tried most of like television shows movies from i Tunes Maybe it's up to [TS]

  other apps to do the same thing I think I try to be zero and Showtime and Netflix is only thing to do similarly well [TS]

  but anyway. Certainly for the apple things. While you're playing as Mark A found out. If you swipe. [TS]

  The little touch pad. It moves the play head. And it moves the play had no matter what immediately. [TS]

  If it has been to you to show you it will change a little thumbnails and stuff. [TS]

  If it doesn't have video to show you the thumbnail be whatever the last frame was. [TS]

  But it moves the play had it does not wait. [TS]

  Does not beach ball it just goes where you wanted it shows you the time offset. [TS]

  And it is a glorious like finally finally I understood that that is the most important thing. [TS]

  Although stuff I don't care like if you can do it fine as I did I loaded like a an episode of Legend of Korra something [TS]

  to get all the you know a small episode. [TS]

  So it had all the things that will show you live thumbnails as you Scott Brown if you can but if you can't. [TS]

  It always prioritizes moving them now and then when you hit the button to play from the position. [TS]

  Maybe takes a little while for to get the video and start playing in that position to find whatever. [TS]

  When you're watching. You can tap. You can click the left side of the touch pad. There's another good U.I. [TS]

  Type thing if you rest your thumb on the left side of the touch pad. [TS]

  It puts a little ten second rewind icon on the screen letting you know hey. [TS]

  If you were to press here we go back ten seconds you haven't actually done the back ten seconds yet [TS]

  but it's telling you [TS]

  and same thing if you would just lay your thumb on the right side of the Touch Pad It says that you can go forward [TS]

  thirty. I wish those numbers are adjustable not sure of they are but anyway. [TS]

  If you tap about and you can go forward and back thirty seconds of course we've all seen the cool Siri demos of. [TS]

  What did he say and then it goes back. Some amount of seconds. Turns on subtitles. Shows you what you just saw. [TS]

  And then turns the dials off automatically. [TS]

  Which I think is a very clever feature The only difficulty is if you miss an entire conversation I don't know how to [TS]

  pick how far to go back I don't know how it takes one to turn the subtitles off. [TS]

  They had to make a compromise there it seems like a reasonable compromise but anyway. [TS]

  You can swipe down from the top to pull the menu item down to turn on off subtitles another thing that was a little bit. [TS]

  annoying to do if you didn't know the secret shortcuts of the old Apple T.V. You can fast forward and rewind scan. [TS]

  It's still not as capable. [TS]

  Fast sort rewind scanning as like a Playstation three is where you have from like one point five X.. [TS]

  With pitch adjusted audio still playing. To all wept like one hundred twenty X. [TS]

  The reason for a hidden three needs a hundred twenty X.. [TS]

  Is because it doesn't have flicks scrubbing through the whole thing. That's not a problem the Apple T.V. [TS]

  I go right to the middle of something or right to the end or right to three quarters through. Very easily. [TS]

  Whereas in the Play Station I would have to go to one twenty X. Mode and move over to it ever but anyway. [TS]

  Big thumbs up on the video scrubbing. [TS]

  They finally did it right as far as I can tell if applications do it wrong I will least know that it is not the fault [TS]

  of the hardware or the O.-S. Is only the fault of the people in pointing those applications. [TS]

  Not doing it the way Apple does it. [TS]

  I'm impressed I really thought you were going to find something to dislike about this but. [TS]

  Sounds like we're going to go. That's excellent. [TS]

  No I mean really I've heard only I haven't done much video scrubbing with it myself because I'm not much of a scrubber. [TS]

  I guess. [TS]

  But I've heard only great things about it from people who care more about these things are [TS]

  or use it more than I do like John. I mean I I think that is one thing. [TS]

  Almost everybody has agreed that this had a process can be very bumpy. [TS]

  With the with the number of times you have to enter passwords on that terrible key line. [TS]

  But almost everyone also agrees that the video seeking behavior [TS]

  and all that whole engine that is that is in there is incredibly good. And also I mean this is. This is just a. [TS]

  It's just good hardware. You know this has the eight has two gigs of RAM it's fast. I am optimistic. [TS]

  For the future of this platform. Just because of what everyone else is going to do with it. [TS]

  You know what Apple does that is still a big question mark. And Apple stuff recently has been inconsistent. [TS]

  I would say you know like some stuff. They nail pretty well some stuff is pretty half baked even. Well after launch. [TS]

  So Apple stuff I think will be less consistent but. [TS]

  Third party stuff I think there's a lot here to do that there's a lot of hardware to use. [TS]

  There's you know we'll talk about gaming in a second be after the next Ponce or break as there's lots about here. [TS]

  But I do think a lot of potential here for developers I mean I did start. [TS]

  I don't know if I'm going to actually finish and release. Such a thing. [TS]

  But I did actually start porting overcast to it. [TS]

  Just to see like you know how much work will this take Do I have to really make a lot of special cases [TS]

  or do it doesn't the is going to need a whole lot of work to do or will it need relatively little. [TS]

  And so I'm playing with the S.T.K. and Playing with the hardware a little bit and. It is of really really nice. [TS]

  Like the interface. [TS]

  Challenges are going to certainly be there but it is really nice to develop for because it is basically I.O.'s. [TS]

  Minus some stuff. But it is very most of us is there. And the hardware is very capable and. [TS]

  This is the you know this is the baseline and in five years from now. [TS]

  Developers will be complaining they have to go go all the way back and support the eight. [TS]

  But right now a new hardware line where the eight is the minimum is pretty nice. Because you can do. [TS]

  And also it has A C. Power. So you can be as power inefficient as you want. [TS]

  So you can do things that really crank that C.P.U. Hard. So it is going to be a really really nice. Developer platform. [TS]

  I do have concerns about whether it will be worth. Developers doing a lot for it so soon. [TS]

  And that I think arrange to be seen. Yeah. The app. [TS]

  I'm going to be apps that are first thing to you know I was surprised when you load the thing up. Like it looks empty.. [TS]

  Like where all the icons because the old Apple T.V. [TS]

  It would start off with like tons of icons on your screen and new icons would appear whether you wanted them [TS]

  or not you got to turn on like the. Whatever the parental controls to make them disappear and stuff. [TS]

  This thing comes out and there's the apple icons for the Apple stuff. And settings and search and I sit. [TS]

  Saw immediately the first op is always I gotta go and Netflix H.B.O. Showtime. [TS]

  You know all the other different apps that it. And I wanted to get those and. [TS]

  You know I I don't know if this is just the top list or whatever but on the first screen. [TS]

  First screen or screen or two in the App Store. Was all the things I wanted. [TS]

  I got you know how does it venture across the road Netflix H.B.O. Show done F.X. US A.B.C. N.B.C. C.B.S. [TS]

  Like they're all there. The sort of base to restore my Apple T.V. To its previous level of functionality. [TS]

  Including all the apps that actually or the user the kids use. [TS]

  Was pretty easy to do when I went to download this I think this is the second time asking for my Apple ID password [TS]

  and I entered in once [TS]

  and asked me Do you want to have to enter that like you want to do this every time you make a purchase [TS]

  and I said no because I really don't want to enter it. Every time I make a purchase. [TS]

  I accidently click the Yes on that because I I just miss use the trackpad it was another one of my many errors. [TS]

  When I go get around settings entered again and. Yeah. [TS]

  And I'm a little bit wary about that because I mean really it should have integration with Touch ID really they're much [TS]

  have a Touch ID sensor on the last so many gimmies here that's by the way. With the negativity about this. [TS]

  All the people complain about a set up. [TS]

  Process there right it's bad [TS]

  and it's like it's feels like an unforced error was like come on Apple you know how to do this is not your first Apple. [TS]

  T.V. [TS]

  You have you have a name brand technologies across your whole product line that solve all of these problems you had an [TS]

  existing I was at that work with the old one that gave you keyboard you've got touch I do you've got i Cloud key chain [TS]

  you've got all you've got. You know I cloud photo library. [TS]

  You've got all these things they're all just sitting there and. [TS]

  That's why I feel so bad it's like this set up experience is worse than the apple norm for what seems like no good [TS]

  reason the theories I've heard think I can smell feel this area like that the Apple T.V. [TS]

  Was actually done a long time ago and wasn't launched because the they're waiting for the content deals [TS]

  and actually decide Welp content deal. Schuman tent deal. We're shipping head. [TS]

  And so that's why it doesn't have support for technologies and things that. [TS]

  That are old hat as far as we're concerned but they weren't all that when this work was actually done on the Apple T.V. [TS]

  Team and of the Apple T.V. Team was more or less disbanded incentive do other things while the Apple T.V. [TS]

  Just stood there I don't know if there's any truth behind that that's what it feels like. [TS]

  So that's why people are complaining because it can be really bad Likewise for Jason where he's got except the ten new [TS]

  terms and conditions [TS]

  and you got do that on his back in your entering your stupid long password a million times with a terrible keyboard. [TS]

  And you the whole time you just grumbling was all a G.'s the i OS app. [TS]

  That is all terrible and that's definitely worthy of complaining about. [TS]

  But if you power through that crap kind of like I powered through that stuff with my we you. To we transfer. [TS]

  Experience. You can't the other side you're left with a product that I think is clearly better than the old Apple T.V.. [TS]

  In many many ways and that shows promise and like [TS]

  and the promise rostering to like talk about I love the fact that there's a touch pad their remote I hate pretty much [TS]

  everything else about their not like I would like a good remote. With a touch pad and. [TS]

  One of the thing I would throw with a touch pad on the remote. [TS]

  When you go to the apps which are which by the way people might not know it's there you double tap the home button [TS]

  which looks like a big picture of a T.V. and Your remote will bring up. And I was like App So if you're rich. [TS]

  That shows all your apps like kind of the old stop such a guy was a tab so if your shows each screen next to each other [TS]

  when you go between them. You have to basically do the equivalent of a deep had input. Swipe so I pour tap tap. [TS]

  I would love it if I could touch my phone to the touch pad. [TS]

  And as I move my thumb things move on the screen tracking my thumb. [TS]

  You know what I mean like in other words more like an i O. S. [TS]

  Scrolling type thing where you can flick but if you flip your flicking like you're flicking the screen [TS]

  and I was as opposed to what this thing was like it's doing is. [TS]

  I'm waiting to get a gesture that I interpret as go left one. [TS]

  And it's not quite that you can swipe past more than one of the time I think [TS]

  but anyway I just feel a bit off to me a lot of that is because the Touch Pad is too darn small. But anyway. [TS]

  You know a lot of negativity about the sort of process. [TS]

  All which I agree with all which should be complained about [TS]

  and all of which were just really angry at Apple because they just seem like unforced errors. Yeah. [TS]

  I mean once you have it set up it seems like a pretty nice device. [TS]

  But again we know we're all having this right now [TS]

  and there's going be a lot of people who are getting this this holiday season as they get their their first.. [TS]

  You have a T.V. Possibly their first Apple T.V. Ever. [TS]

  And I do think that it seems like they rushed it out to make this holiday season. [TS]

  But it doesn't seem like it's ready like there's so many little exceptions. [TS]

  It really does seem like it could be used to explore months of polish. [TS]

  It's not like the features that are there aren't polish they just aren't there. [TS]

  Like why the hell can you not enter text on my phone. [TS]

  Like that's not a Polish right that's just a just a plain feature thing. And the other. [TS]

  Maybe I think you could says Pa If you make it because Apple recently updated the terms and conditions for the. [TS]

  The app store. [TS]

  If you haven't agreed to those or if your credit card is expired [TS]

  or you have have to enter your credit card code again or something anything involving purchasing from Apple. [TS]

  That is messed up. [TS]

  The television doesn't have a way to do it for you to fix that apparently you have to go back to your mac [TS]

  and try to do it in i Tunes which feels really weird kind of the same thing with those not Apple's fault entirely [TS]

  but like activating the H.B.O. Go app if you're a subscriber to H.B.O. [TS]

  Like I am they all have a thing that has like I'll go to your web browser and go to H.B.O. [TS]

  Doda com slash activate and enter this six letter code and. If you're out and you go to H.B.O. [TS]

  Go website and wants you to log in with your cable providers. A log and print credentials in a possible little I frame. [TS]

  And now you have of Arisan I framed inside H.B.O. Go which is all try to get your Apple T.V. To work and. [TS]

  That is all gross and. It's going to confuse many a person. On Christmas morning. Or whenever. During the holidays. [TS]

  There's only so much Apple can do to fix that [TS]

  but surely Apple can fix the equivalent of those experiences in its own ecosystem. [TS]

  And so that maybe is an area of Polish But yeah just like I feel like if this. [TS]

  The story of them having it done and then disbanding the team waiting for content deals. If nothing remotely true. [TS]

  That's silly because they just a left those people on and said. Just maintain the think keep pace. [TS]

  And so introduce a new technology or new thing. Make sure it's integrated. [TS]

  And by the way while you're there find those corner cases for the people who haven't agreed to interact in terms of you [TS]

  live without in the in the thing or whatever. I mean if I had to guess I'm guessing that the biggest reason why this. [TS]

  Why is there so many rough edges around. Entering your password logging into the store different story issues. [TS]

  Is because this crosses departments with an apple. This goes like you know from the engineering department. [TS]

  Into the queue lead store infrastructure. Area. [TS]

  Right and so that that crossing those crossing those lines has always been very messy in the product. [TS]

  That's always where people had a lot of issues and errors and bad user experiences and. [TS]

  I've heard so many things from various people inside and outside of Apple. [TS]

  Some of which conflict but most of which tend to agree. Any time the other teams need something from the store team. [TS]

  It's hard to get or it's a problem in some way or it takes too long or something. [TS]

  There seems to be a lot of friction there. And I don't know whose fault it is it doesn't matter. [TS]

  The result is that when we when the products reach us the consumers. [TS]

  We see that friction in the same way that like it as Microsoft is so famous for in fighting back in the day I don't [TS]

  know how bad it is now but back in the day they were famous for it. But between Windows and Office and a lot of times. [TS]

  Those in fights would would affect customers negatively and really affect the whole company negatively as a result. [TS]

  She that an apple in the way that the software products have to interact with the store backend [TS]

  and anything that uses the store back and again. Who knows there. [TS]

  I'm sure there are lots of smart people working on that. But whatever the cause. [TS]

  Things that need to interact with that tend to work worse than the rest of the stack. And the Apple T.V. As a product. [TS]

  Depends so heavily on the store back end. That I think that is really causing a lot of this friction and. [TS]

  And there might be tons of well meaning teams and people inside of Apple who are trying to fix this. [TS]

  But even simply through the way these teams are organized [TS]

  and divided between each other it just might be really hard to do and just. Therefore just doesn't happen. [TS]

  Doesn't happen well enough in practice. [TS]

  Auspex of the story there it just seems to be the a things that have to do with like account management. [TS]

  For example once I entered my password and I was downloading all those apps. [TS]

  Of I tapped the little installer get icon I don't know why I sometimes had installs and I was a get [TS]

  or whatever anyway I downloaded really fast. Like I was just basically going through. Tap tap tap. [TS]

  Like it felt fast a little circle progress and together. [TS]

  Filled really fast [TS]

  and all the maybe they're all tiny apps because they're all T V M L And they're just kind of all that [TS]

  but everything about that felt fast. And yet. [TS]

  When you had to deal with anything having to do with hey am I signed into my account. [TS]

  Have I done any sort of administrative bookkeeping stuff related to my counter need to enter the little three did it [TS]

  come from the back of my credit card again. There you want to do that in here. [TS]

  All that just felt like it was lacking and I just punted that [TS]

  and said Well the seventeen other ways for you to do that you can't do that on your happened heavey. [TS]

  We're just going to throw up something from your face and says Go do this someplace else and then come back here [TS]

  and everything will work and you even with the weird sign and stuff like going to the H.B.O. [TS]

  Thing and signing on through Verizon and all of the stuff. It's like OK well. Your device is activated now. [TS]

  Go back to your T.V. and It should be activated and I always walk into the next room to go back to my T.V. [TS]

  Dreading the fact that I'm going to look at the Wii and if there's going to be sitting there saying please sign. [TS]

  You know like that or want that the dots won't connect. [TS]

  If that happens like what the hell do you do you just go back and try to go but every time I did it actually worked [TS]

  and maybe I just lucked out on it but that. [TS]

  That is not a seamless experience dealing with Apple's own story so not a seamless experience [TS]

  but some aspects of it are good the video downloads fast apps download fast apps launch fast. [TS]

  If this thing feels faster than my Tivo which is ridiculous considering my Tivo cost like five times as much literally. [TS]

  But it feels faster and things. Everything about it like. [TS]

  I can kind of tell that it has two gigs of RAM because I like. [TS]

  I want to the apps which I went back to a game that I had played like a half an hour ago [TS]

  when the game was still in memory sitting in on the place where I left off. That is a sort of premium quality T.V. [TS]

  Box experience. So you know. [TS]

  It's all good but you have just embarrassing the set up stuff is just embarrassing [TS]

  and I still think the remote is kind of embarrassing because I can't imagine. [TS]

  Like maybe people will eventually come to appreciate what I was just describing the swiping as versus the tapping [TS]

  but that may be more just a personal thing where I hate waiting for the machine to do anything [TS]

  and I hate the fact that I have to I know I'm going to have to be pressing release this little rubberized button to [TS]

  have to operate a mechanical switch seven times the of the seventh item. [TS]

  That probably doesn't annoy other people's much of that annoys me in fact other people probably feel more comfortable [TS]

  feeling that physical quick seven times to get from place to place so I don't think they're going to pick up on those. [TS]

  You know. [TS]

  The things that appeal to me rather remote may not be the things that the all the other people [TS]

  and everything else about theirs miswrote is just terrible as discussed in previous shows it's just too small to the [TS]

  wrong shape. [TS]

  It's doesn't feel good it doesn't look good it doesn't light up it's not easy to find a fall down couch cushions. [TS]

  If you dig for your next only scrubby video be pissed off. Yeah. [TS]

  Our final sponsor this week is back later going to back Blaze dot com slash A.T.P. For unlimited. [TS]

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  So let's let's talk about Apple T.V. Gaming. [TS]

  Wow that was a long I was a long pause So John I'm assuming that your gaming experience has been has been limited in [TS]

  the short time you've had it. [TS]

  Well here's what I plan to play Cross hero to put out of the adventure to games I've already it was already familiar [TS]

  with. [TS]

  I thought cross the road was what I thought all those adventure was the best test because it only has one button module [TS]

  Oh the wingsuit activation and some other stuff but for the most part. [TS]

  You're just having about [TS]

  and that's that's why I said before that I think of is the the remote isn't like that touch pad that you press it [TS]

  actually would have actually been like it bends that. To videos down. That's not a good. Button. [TS]

  Like if that's going to be the main button you press like to start to during a flipper jump or whatever [TS]

  and all those adventure. It just doesn't feel good as a button does not feel like a controller button. It is. [TS]

  I mean it's big it's easy to find it's not like you know it's good to be the primary [TS]

  but it's just not just feel good it's a pretty loud click it feels more like. I don't know what it feels like. [TS]

  Maybe maybe cooking a mouse button. [TS]

  It's as if every time you want to make Mario jump you click an old style mouse [TS]

  but it just doesn't doesn't feel like an A but an essential a right. [TS]

  Yeah and the Seems like a lot of travel on [TS]

  and it just it feels kind of like there's a little bit of what I know there probably isn't lag I don't know what I'm [TS]

  feeling maybe I'm feeling like the fact that my thumb has to go through a lot of travel I don't know. [TS]

  I've I've spent a lot of time using all sorts of controllers Miss A doesn't feel like a controller and B. [TS]

  Doesn't feel good. Which is kind of a shame. That's why I was wishing like. [TS]

  If they just did Tapper ever cross your road. [TS]

  Similar across the road I feel like a little bit better has kind of more deliberate I guess we're going to hop hop hop. [TS]

  But even that. [TS]

  And then cross road of course you have to do the sideswipe on the upside to do the directional changes and. [TS]

  I found that the directional changes frustratingly inaccurate in the I.R.S. Games where you swiping on the screen. [TS]

  I don't know if it's because I'm trying to help playing sax on you guys don't remember that [TS]

  but it was sort of isometric view of a game where I could never quiet my. My hand. [TS]

  I coordinate connection could never cry to get on the same page in terms that OK so I my in my pressing up to the left. [TS]

  Like northwest. To try to make my Zaxxon shift go. Left in ship space or and live pressing directly west. [TS]

  Like is it is a relative or absolute control from the perspective of the ship [TS]

  or from the perspective I'm looking at the screen is very often across the road I will swipe. [TS]

  What looks like left along the ground but it wants me to swipe left. With respect to the screen anyway. [TS]

  Those problem seemed less than somewhat by using the swipe your MO for television I don't know why I did like on my [TS]

  first couple runs [TS]

  and cross the road I hadn't played in a very long time I did really well with a television so I guess the controls game [TS]

  is pretty OK for that [TS]

  but the button is still pretty terrible performance wise it performs like it I hate so you know those games are not [TS]

  challenging. [TS]

  The games launch fast they they want faster on a lot of our eye with devices because I don't have many I was devices [TS]

  that are as fast as an eight and house. I can't imagine playing a quote unquote. Real console game. With that remote. [TS]

  I don't even like playing with that with that we remote sideways. And that has a real be bad on it. [TS]

  So I don't know if gaming was the kids seem interested in the because they play a lot of Iowa's games they're excited [TS]

  to play them on T.V. We play to play across your own that was a little fun twist as well. [TS]

  I don't know if I'll do a lot of gaming on it I guess it depends on what games come out [TS]

  but I know I'll be more inclined to to take it seriously as a gaming device for my game you need. [TS]

  If it had but we know Mark already bought which is a third party control looks like a console controller. [TS]

  Yes So about the controller. I haven't used it yet it's. It's charging up on my desk. [TS]

  And I'm probably going to try to out tomorrow night. But. It feels. You know it's fifty bucks. [TS]

  Which I guess is in the round one is like a P S four controller cause like forty. [TS]

  There are more expensive than you think. Right. Fifty boxes. [TS]

  Is reasonable a reasonable price is this what you should say what make a model that says it's the Steelcase Nimbus [TS]

  which is the only one so far I think it might be. [TS]

  You can use any I think you use any made for i Phone controller with it. OK. So anyway. [TS]

  It's not a great feeling controller I will see how it how it goes in practice [TS]

  but just like pushing the buttons of without being pleasant anything. [TS]

  The Deep had does not feel very good the buttons don't feel very good it feels kind of like. [TS]

  You know like back in the day. I don't know I don't know what the current market for these things would be. [TS]

  But back when I had a Sega Genesis growing up. [TS]

  You occasionally be at a friend's house where they didn't want to spend the full twelve dollars to get the name brand. [TS]

  Sega controller as their player to controller. [TS]

  So you'd be Player two and you'd have like the like not the twelve darn nice one but the seven dollar crappy one. [TS]

  And it was like a third party kind of cheap knockoff tried to be as good as the real say go on but never was. [TS]

  This feels like one of those like compared to the other you compared to like you know real Sony [TS]

  or Microsoft controllers or Nintendo controllers that are actually good. [TS]

  This just feels like a third party knockoff kind of control [TS]

  and doesn't it doesn't feel like terrible it just doesn't feel good. So all that aside. [TS]

  There was a great article I put it like in the should I say I want to bring up those great article on polygon. [TS]

  Today I think that came out. That was all about like you know like one of the best games in Apple T.V. [TS]

  and and It talks about like you know how many of them actually change noticeably. If you're using this controller. [TS]

  Versus just using the. The Syria mode. [TS]

  And like Rain Man like it becomes like a lot of the INS like it like in Rain Man A Give the case where apparently. [TS]

  Normally if you just use the Apple T.V. Remote. The player can just runs fix be in your control and jumping in stuff. [TS]

  And if you plug into controller that you can you have full control over the player. [TS]

  So it's like the games change in pretty substantial ways. If you use one of these controllers. [TS]

  But in general I think there's going to be two main problems that this faces number one. [TS]

  These aren't going to be triple A quality games. [TS]

  Just because the economics are not going to work out for people for a while if ever. Well. [TS]

  They could be shovelware RAM [TS]

  and they were talked about I'm pretty sure is shovelware like that is that as a high profiled multi-platform console [TS]

  game that they ported to i OS and now Apple T.V. [TS]

  If it's again it's Rayman Legends right frame and something I don't know. [TS]

  I'm played in but it doesn't matter so there's there's going to be obvious lot of shovelware from. [TS]

  I Pad and i Phone games of course because it is easy [TS]

  but you know so there's going to be issues of like you know the games are going to be that great. [TS]

  From from just like the the budget perspective. Because they're not going to make that much money. [TS]

  You know compared to like selling it for sixty bucks on a console. [TS]

  They're they're not going to make as much money on this device that you're lucky to get ten bucks upfront for a game. [TS]

  Or do some kind of terrible and I purchased scheme. And the installed base for the Apple T.V. [TS]

  Is going to be smaller than the game console for a while probably in the long term it'll little eventually surpass them. [TS]

  But for at least a few years it's probably going to be smaller. So we'll see what happens there. [TS]

  To me I think what we're going to see here. I think it's kind of like You Tube versus H.B.O. Of games. [TS]

  If that makes some sense. The big budget AAA game that's like the H.B.O. In this analogy like. [TS]

  Those are going to go to the consul's in the P.C.'s. Because that's where they can charge the most money. [TS]

  And really respect the most hardcore enthuses are willing to pay a premium to play those games. And to really get into. [TS]

  Into a purely game enthusiasm everything. [TS]

  Whereas You Tube is kind of like well anybody can throw some stuff up here [TS]

  and most what's going to guard some of the soon to be good. That I think is going to be more like what the Apple T.V. [TS]

  Gaming scene becomes where it's going to be a lot of garbage. Some good stuff. [TS]

  It's probably never going to be the quality you get out of out of the AAA studio. AAA released on a console. [TS]

  But there's going to be a lot more stuff and it's a lot more casual [TS]

  and the bar is a lot lower because programming for I was easy and just [TS]

  and distribution despite all of our complaint in the App Store is still WAY easier than trying to ship a console game. [TS]

  So you know. I think it's going to be more like that and that isn't necessarily a bad thing. [TS]

  But it's just different and it's this is never going to be a competitive gaming console. [TS]

  In what we think of as a gaming console but it might be a thing that people play games on. [TS]

  If that makes sense of rhythm follow up apparently Rayman Legends is not an Iowa skull [TS]

  or a man adventures I'm not sure how much it shares that her and Legends is on Play Station three and far [TS]

  and the way you and three sixty and I saw this one in the read on Windows but not in Iowa us. [TS]

  So like I I have some hope for the people who are good at making I was games will become good at making Apple T.V. [TS]

  Aims. [TS]

  I'm really disappointed about the rules surrounding controllers I'm disappointed Apple doesn't make a first party [TS]

  control what you said about third party controllers. [TS]

  Is still entirely true with the one possible exception of controllers Major you sports which costs more [TS]

  and are presumably higher quality and better feeling. But the consumer third party controllers. [TS]

  Always gross like even as recently as I think the last one I actually bought was maybe for the Game Cube [TS]

  but I always play with them stories he would think how how going to be that much worse like it's just it's a pad with [TS]

  buttons and if you look at pictures of me like actually a third party ones look better like they're better shape. [TS]

  They're better suited to my hands is there a different shape. [TS]

  I like where they did with the controls and you just press the button. You like but if you guys done. [TS]

  When you do wish the button. How can you screw it up. Why does it feel so. [TS]

  How does it feel so different or better at like like a Super Nintendo controller would feel better than this. [TS]

  Yeah and I don't know what magic first party controllers have or just you know you could say. [TS]

  It's just that you're used to the first party control you get the thing use the player longer for a long time then you [TS]

  get a new cheap out and you know thirty one and it feels different and you don't like it [TS]

  but there is no force party controller. With the Apple T.V. It is just that silly remote. [TS]

  So it's not like you're comparing the Nimbus the OK thing to Apple's first party control that feels really good. [TS]

  You're comparing it to nothing and you still find it doesn't. [TS]

  You know feel good to your hand so I totally believe that. I don't know what it is that makes first party controllers. [TS]

  So much better although I have to say that I'm still you know I have been playing destiny in my P.S. [TS]

  For control of her a long time and L. To an archer trigger squeak. When I hold them down. [TS]

  And it bothers me a little bit. I destroyed it by playing five hundred hours of destiny. [TS]

  Maybe I don't feel like I'm being that rough on the thing. [TS]

  I just feel like it's not up to Nintendo's qualities and I guess the Game Cube. [TS]

  Triggers that sweet little bit too but compared to the we. Program troll or which feels the sought of Iraq. [TS]

  Even though some six are in the wrong place anyway. I may be interested enough to buy a real controller from Apple T.V.. [TS]

  Depending on how much my kids get into playing you know how much I get into playing it [TS]

  but your view so far of this day OK. Numbers is not making a run on by a particular model so many voters weight. [TS]

  Honestly I wouldn't expect there to be a lot of these. I honestly wouldn't. [TS]

  I don't think the market can really support a lot of them. I think it can support. One to two. Really. [TS]

  And only because like. If this wasn't sold in the Apple Store I wouldn't have even considered it. [TS]

  But I was there to get a second Apple T.V. and I wanted one for for my desk to develop on. So I could. [TS]

  So I can use a nice remote and not have to use the terrible simulator remote. [TS]

  So I want to do so anyway I was there I got one kind of impulse buying. But if they were in the store. I don't think. [TS]

  I don't think I would've gotten one apple to be doing the wait [TS]

  and see things to like Hey if people really start making console quality games. There's no reason. [TS]

  Apple can make a first party controller and ship over the next Apple T.V. [TS]

  Other than the fact that it will destroy you know the poor people who design the packaging to be like oh. [TS]

  I have to put this in the box and destroy the whole box is on as opposed to be a cute little Apple T.V. [TS]

  In a little cubby with the remote. [TS]

  And the wire and every think that's the neatly [TS]

  and now you going to give me this control it's bigger that entire box combined I got mine that was the but this. [TS]

  It just seems like a shame. [TS]

  Like a part of these things like half the reason I don't want to sell a controller is because it necessarily would have [TS]

  to be so much larger [TS]

  and everything about all their packaging their products like how small can make the box how many of these Can we finish [TS]

  up in the ten or how little waste can we make I'd fire mentally speaking. [TS]

  And there's just no getting around the fact that if you want something for adults to hold with two hands. [TS]

  It has to be a certain size. And you have to make or break a rocks. [TS]

  No honestly I think that that is probably a really big part of the reason why they don't make one they seem to do a lot [TS]

  like this is kind of like what I mentioned last week about how I feel like Johnny Ives influence is slightly too strong [TS]

  in the organization news be some some adjustment there. I feel like the. The influence. It's of packaging. [TS]

  Size is supposed to wrong right now that they do things like that that like. It's optimizing for the size of the box. [TS]

  When it actually has noticeable ramifications on the product. [TS]

  So there are some things that they could use I think some rebalance and but regardless. Yeah. [TS]

  I wouldn't expect Apple to make a game controller the penny good even he did make one for themselves because for all [TS]

  the same reasons everything that that is making Apple's products. Compelling and good today. [TS]

  Hardware wise of like making these like. [TS]

  Then sleek things that are by the way did I mention thin by the way Julie thin. [TS]

  What is required to make a good game controller. Goes totally against. Apple's hardware design. In recent years. [TS]

  Like day I don't think they are capable of shipping one that is good they would never get out the door. Yeah. [TS]

  Because it's the same reason. You know the remote is the best example. [TS]

  If they can make a good control they would have made a good remote. [TS]

  Exactly the just that just doesn't [TS]

  and I kind of like packaging is kind of silly because there are likely to reasons for the packaging to you know me to [TS]

  make a minimal pack regardless of the side of the product you do want to make no packaging for Economics [TS]

  and for environmental reasons both of which are good to go but. You just look at the Apple T.V. [TS]

  In the size the remote and you have to think these two were designed as a pair and they are in scale with each other [TS]

  and it's ignoring the fact that human beings are not in scale with the Apple T.V. [TS]

  I don't care how big the puck is don't size their remote based on the size of the puck. [TS]

  Size it based on hands you know. Shape it and size it based on hands. [TS]

  And that's not too many things that Apple makes that you that you grip in that way. [TS]

  Like Obviously the phones in the pads and stuff they just they want to be like you know. [TS]

  Then it's done it's not in the lightest possible until they're you know until it becomes a non-issue in your calling [TS]

  like a a completely clear he's Oleksandr weighs almost nothing that magically has an image of your screen Apple would [TS]

  be all for that right but they they make keyboards that you touch in those they've been trying to shrink down. [TS]

  But at least the he got to keep have a still his eyes and make the sushi mouse. Which you touch but in a weird way. [TS]

  And maybe if you hold it that way it's good but if you don't hold the way tough luck. I still like it. Yeah me too. [TS]

  And they don't yeah I mean it's fun like if you use the web [TS]

  but they don't make many things that you that you kind of a grip and hold in using the same way that you would grip [TS]

  and hold a remote or a game controller because there's nothing on the remote of the game [TS]

  and told you look at the we Game Pad aside. [TS]

  It's purely a thing that you hold with buttons on it that you're not staring at [TS]

  when you use so it has to be sort of tactile and you have to be able to tell which way is what way [TS]

  and where the buttons are and you know there's not there's not much like that they make and there. [TS]

  Their aesthetic doesn't lend itself well to that because you know. The negative space for. [TS]

  By the gripping human hand is ugly and there's no getting around that. Ergonomics are ugly. [TS]

  Like things that are well design or Anomaly are not going to be as visually attractive. As a thin. Bar of soap. [TS]

  Remote that they can make but you know. It might not work as well. But they are willing to make that trade off. [TS]

  Specifically things that you grip. [TS]

  Because like a grip in this type of way because you can make a very are going to like and to beautiful. [TS]

  Door handle right. [TS]

  Or or a lever or shift knob in a car or steering wheel or anything like that those can be both beautiful [TS]

  and are going to comic. [TS]

  But once you're wrapping your hand entirely around something like a controller that you're gripping with two hands [TS]

  or remote that you gripping entirely with one hand then you're just all around the thing [TS]

  and it's like you can't get around the fact that the hands don't want to go around a rectangular solid they don't want [TS]

  and it's hard if it's a little tiny sliver of a thing it's hard to kind of grip that at the same time as a manipulating [TS]

  the top surface what do you even holding onto the little edges of like yeah. [TS]

  I feel like the people from Oxo need to parachute into the industrial design headquarters at Apple. [TS]

  All right guys listen. Everybody on the floor. You know just like strapped into the chairs. [TS]

  And just go over although oxide is continuing the good cheese graters and maybe they're losing their way as well. [TS]

  To go back and so I said that that I there were two challenges that I see for Apple T.V. Games and I only named one. [TS]

  The other big one is. It's what I always say. Never go against the smartphone. All the Apple T.V. Games so far. Again. [TS]

  I assume this will change. Hopefully quickly. [TS]

  And hopefully to such a degree the statement sounds ridiculous in retrospect. [TS]

  But so far I haven't seen anything on the Apple T.V. Game wise. [TS]

  That was that that was substantially better than just running that same game on an i Phone or an i Pad. [TS]

  That's going to be a problem for a lot of games. [TS]

  So because you know we've been everyone who's developing Iowa scheme so far mobile game so far has been doing on these [TS]

  platforms where certain things apply we know all these all these as Dick isn't everything. [TS]

  People who are making games that can be played nicely on a T.V. With a controller. [TS]

  Have not really been in this business because business has not really allowed them to thrive. [TS]

  So we need to either attract those kind of those trying to kind of games. Into the business. [TS]

  Already to have our game developers start making games that actually make sense on T.V.'s more than it makes sense [TS]

  and just running it on an i Pad or and i Phone. [TS]

  I would say they're not substantially better than other how you how you qualify substantially because I think even [TS]

  these two games that are totally I.O.'s and like you know how to venture [TS]

  and cross here are both designed with the control scheme of a smartphone [TS]

  or a touchscreen in mind it's very you know Alto is like. [TS]

  How can you make a fun game with very minimal controls most of the you just tap anywhere on the screen right now [TS]

  Chrysler are mostly just happening where with a little bit of swipes there. [TS]

  They're totally designed for the very limited very primitive input and purposes and style of a touchscreen device. [TS]

  But I think both of those games. Benefit enormously from being on a T.V. Screen. [TS]

  For the first reason that your hands aren't blocking any part of the screen. [TS]

  Which is for console gamers part of the thing that annoys about I was Games is that if it doesn't have an interface [TS]

  that totally demands touch like Flight Control writes like OK that's not working anywhere else. [TS]

  You know it's got to be a finger or a mouse and finger kind of makes it more fun. But those type of games. [TS]

  I like not having my hand blocking a screen is always the reason I was quite Alto on my i Pad as I don't like how much [TS]

  of the. Screen. [TS]

  My two thumbs potentially block when playing alto on my i Phone six or even worse on a foreign Shailesh device. [TS]

  I like seeing the whole screen. Games that look good I think Alto does look pretty good or even cross the road. [TS]

  They look really good on the big T.V. Big bright beautiful colors again none of it blocked by your fingers. [TS]

  I think that is a big enough when that like if you if I was going for a high score in cross or outer Alto. [TS]

  I would now do it on my television. Like I would I would not try to do it on my i Pad or I'm on my phone. [TS]

  Because I feel like I would. [TS]

  I would do better it's like it's better suited to even this really super simple kind of game it's not like I'm saying [TS]

  well as a game that takes advantage full advantage of the controller and you couldn't play it at all and I was devised. [TS]

  I think that the when there was that a big enough when that people care. [TS]

  Like a cross the road of already got the my phone. Probably not because from what I've seen with my kids. [TS]

  They're fine playing the like. [TS]

  They they experience those games for the first time on their i was devices they're fine playing them there. [TS]

  I don't think they would feel the same way I do about getting my fingers the hell away from the screen so I can see [TS]

  what's going on but will say like my son is now. [TS]

  He downloaded some first person shooter or I was and I like for like a phone size device. [TS]

  Who in the world is trying to buy a first person shooter and a phone screen well. He's doing it. [TS]

  He seems to be enjoying it so he doesn't know the other experience he plays minecraft on you know on the mac so he got [TS]

  the mouse and keyboard controls there. He plays destiny. [TS]

  On the the P S four so he knows what it's like our consul controlling Here he is tilting the thing [TS]

  and shoving a little fingers into different parts of the screen to try to make the guy walk forward in jump [TS]

  and shoot my cow that's that's no way to live but he seems fine with it. [TS]

  So you may be right the market as a whole is not going to see a significant differentiator for the same games on the [TS]

  television. But I certainly do. [TS]

  So least maybe for all people who know what it's like been through the whole screen there is an upside. [TS]

  The other thing too is like T.V. Screens are way worse than modern smartphone and tablet screens. [TS]

  The graphics that you see on T.V. The resolution. [TS]

  Anything involving text [TS]

  and I totally agree with Joe Steel on an upgrade this past week about how like there are so many like blurs that use [TS]

  these gradients that between colors and you see noticeable banding on on my T.V. [TS]

  and Probably many T.V.'s to the point where it doesn't seem to this interface was designed for T.V.'s like I've got to [TS]

  get better T.V.'s Anyway I like it in many ways. Gaining. When you used to gaming and I.O.'s gaming on on a T.V. Again. [TS]

  Is a step down in many ways [TS]

  and I totally agree there are so many kinds of games where a controller with a real deep had a real. [TS]

  And real buttons or really like say whatever you whenever your case to be a controller with physical buttons. [TS]

  Is so much better than touch controls for so many kinds of games not all. But so many kinds of games. And yet.. [TS]

  Playing games on T.V. Once you are used to casual gaming on i OS devices. [TS]

  It really does feel like a big step backwards. [TS]

  Another to have a game like this is this is one of the games that was in the top. [TS]

  Why it was presented to me in the first screen of apps and I almost bought it is a game that I never bought an i O. S. [TS]

  Because I look at the game I'm like oh that's a console game is no way I'd want to play that [TS]

  and I was the last I thought. Or the called someone to Charles tell me. [TS]

  Ocean horn or something like that it's is all the clone basically it's a. It's all the. But not without adult IP and. [TS]

  That's the traditional console game charms of ocean aren't your run around [TS]

  and you do Zelda like things with a character who is totally not named Link and soon as an apprentice. [TS]

  Not names all the and beautiful graphics and it looks nice but I'm like. [TS]

  I don't want to play that kind of again maybe because I'm old I don't want to play that kind of game on a console. [TS]

  Aren't on a phone or by Pat. [TS]

  I want to play on my television holding a controller and because I can't do that I'm never going to buy it now [TS]

  when I saw it come up on my Apple T.V. Screen like you know what. [TS]

  Maybe I would play that maybe is just to get it in the context that I feel like certain types of games are going to [TS]

  spend hours and hours. Going on like a quest and a game of continuity and saves an adventure an inventory. [TS]

  That would just rather do that on television I don't know if that's the. [TS]

  The common case for for people who grew up with i OS devices but I definitely felt that [TS]

  when I saw that icon that same game that I know is a quality game that I've seen lots of things about that I would [TS]

  never in a million years would buy and plan my i Pad. Our i Phone. I was tempted to buy it on the television. [TS]

  I should think it also want to know that this would be awesome for that would make my gamepad purchase worthwhile. [TS]

  Is if good emulators exist. Like for old. You know any as Genesis. [TS]

  We haven't had a good N.E.'s or maim breach in the App Store in a while. [TS]

  Yeah there is that one like there is there is some somebody open sourced one back when the devil kits for shipped out. [TS]

  I have a bookmark somewhere. And one of my many tabs in my many chrome windows John. [TS]

  No just kidding but I think and put it where it somewhere. Anyway. [TS]

  So I wanted to try to run that because this really could be a really nice. [TS]

  Emulator machine but getting the software on their through the app store stuff is probably could be a problem. [TS]

  And I think my OF LAST And yes I mean they're probably crashes on launch now. I was nine which is kind of a shame. [TS]

  My main one might still run. [TS]

  I don't in the early days of the App Store for people who were in around back then very frequently someone would manage [TS]

  to get some kind of game emulator on to the app store briefly before Apple would pull it so if you purchased [TS]

  and downloaded during that window of time. [TS]

  Apple wouldn't remove it from your device even though it's gone from the store so a lot of us have these emulators from [TS]

  like V I O S three or four days. [TS]

  Still sitting around of course they're not maintained [TS]

  and the developer can't release update televangelism just are crashing and launching don't work [TS]

  but some still to resign follow up. Thanks to jelly bean soup book sounds disgusting. In a chat. [TS]

  I know you want to talk Mike and Ike man. The emulator that I was referring to for Apple T.V. [TS]

  Is called provenance and will in that mission notes. I will try it at somewhere I have like a D.V.R. A D.V.D. [TS]

  Sorry David E. Plus our disk with like the entire Nintendo in Genesis. Catalogs on it and roms. [TS]

  But who knows how to do this out because yeah that could be really cool. [TS]

  And I could be like a fun thing to do with my kid who's now. Like getting into games. [TS]

  You know because he's almost four so. Yeah that could. That could be fun and. [TS]

  If that if that does work well then I will not regret the purchase of this controller at all so one final thing on. [TS]

  Apple T.V. You'll notice if you see in a the screen shots the old Apple T.V. [TS]

  Appearance was basically a black background. With light colored things on a lot of the icons were also kind of dark. [TS]

  But anyway the background of the whole thing was black. [TS]

  I like that for a lot of reasons I don't like bright white screens in my face. [TS]

  But also because I have a plasma television that does not like that show a for white screen. [TS]

  And also because I have a plasma Taro television with various regions of the screen with burn in another Image [TS]

  Retention artifacts on it from the kids watching Cartoon Network in a stupid C.N.N. [TS]

  Logo burning into the side and the destiny you had burning into the left and so on and so forth. [TS]

  Obviously this is a problem. Only for me in a seven other people list on plasmas. [TS]

  But I bet if you own a plasma and I've heard from a CO They have already have done this. [TS]

  And you think you don't have any Image Retention. Launching something like say. Chrisy road having a big giant uniform. [TS]

  Teal background in the history all comes up. [TS]

  You'll notice hey wait a second that big giant steel background is not uniform. [TS]

  I can see the logo of the shall I watch all the time in the corner Well I didn't know that was there before [TS]

  and same thing with the menu screens where it's like you just have this big sea of icons on a big it's not pure white [TS]

  but on a big light colored background it's supposed to be uniform. [TS]

  But then you start seeing the little things burned and that makes me feel sad. [TS]

  I don't think it's a reason for Apple not to do it except the only argument for Apple to go back to a black background [TS]

  is just in general staring at a television with a white background is not fun on your eyeballs. Especially if you have. [TS]

  If you don't have a plasma you have an L.C.D. Backlit L.C.D. [TS]

  Those can go really bright [TS]

  and having a Fulbright screen even of the room is not dark having a full white screen with icons on it. [TS]

  Not great for television so I wish both for selfish reasons [TS]

  and a few minor practical reasons that they would tone it down a little bit [TS]

  and go back to black background with light icons on it instead ago I read it [TS]

  and also kind of feels more T.V.'s methink plexus your eyes like that case you can tell me I'm wrong.. [TS]

  Well plexus you I. In general tends to be. I don't know. It is T.V.'s but I've not seen it on the new Apple T.V. [TS]

  Now I'm not even using new Apple T.V. [TS]

  So beats me [TS]

  and so you think it's conceivable that that would also be a light background with dark text on instead of what I'm used [TS]

  to seeing which is black background with live text the pictures I've seen I thought it looked very much like the home [TS]

  screen of the Apple T.V. and That it was like a very gray background. [TS]

  With like whitish text on it but yeah well they're using a lot of the a lot of layout template the get from T V M L. [TS]

  So it does appear that's going to be like a general light. Theme. [TS]

  And I'm with you John I honestly I didn't realize I'd forgotten what does look like in the in the event. [TS]

  So when I kind of floated in I'm like oh everything the really bright. [TS]

  And I also have a plasma even though it's an ancient one but I I had made I would prefer a dark theme for T.V. [TS]

  So it just kind of feels like. That is that the color scheme for T.V. Is black with. You know color were necessary. [TS]

  Rather than what we have with this which is just everything is just bright and full of banded Grady all over the place. [TS]

  So they do vibrancy to that so that's the thing I actually do think ours they do a vibrancy effect where like the new [TS]

  app fades to the foreground or sometimes [TS]

  when you're on like a setting screen you can see behind it the sort of like you can [TS]

  and I us where they put a sheet up over it and really can't see through it [TS]

  but it is kind of these weird colored blobs it's not straight translucent fiber [TS]

  and feel like it's not a fact that you've seen there else they do on the television. And that I don't mind so much. [TS]

  Because it does tend to be darker at least. [TS]

  But it's is the thing that it's covering up that having a dog or gray thing over some icons looks OK but [TS]

  when it go at flies away getting you know like a light gray. [TS]

  Icons on light gray or Wyatt it just it just doesn't doesn't feel right to me. Now under. [TS]

  There's different vibrancy modes. One of them is super light and one of them is middle one of those dark. [TS]

  So it's really up to developers to to choose but I think by default and kind of like the. [TS]

  The norm on the platform is going to be things that are fairly light. [TS]

  And I agree with you that's probably a mistake [TS]

  but you can look at this screenshots of the Plex Apple put in the show notes it looks like it does the vibrancy thing [TS]

  and like for example showing a thing from Louis here. As this is the flex up or as a severed Yeah.. [TS]

  That's that's Louis habits you get using all the built in templates from T.M.O. Anyway. [TS]

  Since Louis has a picture of Louis C.K. [TS]

  With like a blue sky and some clouds the whole background of the page is kind of like a blurred. [TS]

  Smeared version of the you know it's. It does Auto Color theming right. Like Breaking Bad is like greenish. [TS]

  Greg and so the whole background is granted guy. [TS]

  And that means does similar things like apples bananas for a long time trying to sort of have algorithm Legion. [TS]

  Algorithmically generated. [TS]

  Color schemes that match the thing you're seeing [TS]

  but still find a way to make the text legible on it is very difficult to do [TS]

  and they seem super determined to be able to do it. And I think they do a pretty good job here. [TS]

  I like the fact that every one of these screens isn't completely black with white text on it like it used to be on the. [TS]

  old Apple T.V. Sometimes you get a bum color scheme sometimes things are hard to read. So maybe you could say. Apple. [TS]

  Like just pick one theme that looks nice that you can read text on. [TS]

  But I am not as vehemently anti vibrancy as some other people. [TS]

  I think they go too far with it I think it's little bit silly [TS]

  but on the on for television interface I think this gives an apple a branding because they're the one company. [TS]

  That's going to go through these kind of pains to stick to this. [TS]

  What seems like a very stupid idea for how to color theme things out rhythmically. [TS]

  And there's going to keep working until they get it to work and. [TS]

  You know they've done it and it makes it look different than everything else. [TS]

  It's when you go always back to the menu screen where it's like well now you're at the bottom. [TS]

  And all there is is a very light gray background with some drop shadows on it that that still feels wrong. [TS]

  And I think we're good. They thought for three sponsors this week. [TS]

  Harry's Cards Against Humanity and back please and we'll see you next week. Now the show is over. [TS]

  They didn't even mean to be because it was accidental. It was accidental. JOHN going to be seen with him. [TS]

  Because it was accidental. It was accidental. And you can find the show nom de de de da. [TS]

  And if you're trying to get a little bit. [TS]

  He was no says that ski lifts and the and and the Marco are limited to fifty states the real key is. [TS]

  when you get your Apple T.V. You will have things talk about. Well honestly Casey now you have to get one. [TS]

  You can tell us about plex on it. Rival aren't enough about myself to know that what that. [TS]

  I'm going to get one is just a matter of will I hold out for the holidays or not [TS]

  and I don't know I probably I'm this this. Optical things really chap in my hand and and it's stupid like. [TS]

  Conceptually I know it's stupid I know it's not that big a deal and I can get over it [TS]

  but it's really just get one of those thirty dollar boxes it's not worth this fretting it. [TS]

  The thirty on a box might break. But it might not ever break. So what return it. Get a different one. [TS]

  If it doesn't break. Problems all you can get to them for the cause of the game control. Jastrow. [TS]

  It's all I know I'm being crazy like I said earlier there's no doubt my mind this is a Casey issue [TS]

  and I'm just being weird. But I don't know it really grinds my gears that. That that's the way that. That is involved. [TS]

  That much is like you said it makes total sense adopt that altho who call it off to go anymore you just need to get a [TS]

  new receiver [TS]

  and you don't have the same excuse the market does where you're not allowed to get ones above a certain height so [TS]

  interesting fall of about that by the way. It turns out. So to recap. [TS]

  My issue last that I brought up last time was that. I really want. Dynamic range compression. In my audio for my T.V. [TS]

  but Due to household balance issues I'm not allowed to have a a big receiver. [TS]

  That does not fit in this really really narrow spot. In our T.V. Stand and I have not found any receiver. [TS]

  That is short enough height wise to actually fit in here. [TS]

  Even the Moran slimline ones which are almost there but not quite. And I also later on asked what the heck. [TS]

  A sound bar was who I keep seeing sound bars are going to be the new cool thing I wanted what the heck it's a sound bar [TS]

  why why do people keep buying. What appears to be a big row of tiny little speakers and turns out. [TS]

  The answer to what I want. Probably is a sound bar. [TS]

  Many of them include range compression as a feature of the sound bar. Which is a wide. Skinny speaker. That can fit. [TS]

  Free much anywhere in the kind of shape. Shelf. That I have our T.V. On with that everything comes that Apple T.V. [TS]

  Comes that everything has it and everything you suffer your television in your current speakers. [TS]

  Write and say and so it turns out the Apple T.V. [TS]

  Doesn't fact have built in recent version so that is also going to be something that will be a possible answer [TS]

  but I'm actually a a very kind manufacturer of audio equipment has actually sent me a sound bar to do that [TS]

  or I have today I haven't time to look it up yet. [TS]

  I don't know if you can a life like I said it does sound different than stereo. [TS]

  And it's trying to find a middle ground it's not going to sound like stereo. [TS]

  But like you know better sound is going to sound different. Because it's. Trying to say. Trying to be like. [TS]

  It's just like a five by ones US them so is going to do crap by bouncing sound around your room. [TS]

  That you may find weird. Interesting to see how you. How this. [TS]

  If it actually is pleasing enough for you to to keep using it or if you say you know it that's just too weird. [TS]

  I'd rather have either. Just plain stereo or five point one than this thing. You and I have to look at the same and. [TS]

  There's probably like different modes [TS]

  and like settings of like you know if I can like tell it to just try to make it sound two D. and Like like to not. [TS]

  Boost up the the depth. Simulation is much maybe it won't sound weird I don't know. [TS]

  I'll let you know how goes you know that well that's the thing with it with the surround systems [TS]

  and one of the reasons that people tend not to like them is pretty much every receiver. [TS]

  Comes with like all these weird modes like. Pretend you're an opera hall right here in a stadium or you rather like. [TS]

  Just do not ever use any of those there pointless. I don't know. [TS]

  I guess they're there to wow people and charms I'm going to tend they don't exist. [TS]

  And so over the soundbar think what you. What you're probably going to be wanting is. [TS]

  Please just play the center channel out of your center speakers. The right out of their left out of there. [TS]

  And like just have it go straight [TS]

  but even that can sound weird if the speakers are angled behind the grill in weird ways because a lot of on they try to [TS]

  bounce the back tiles off of like the side wall in the back wall the kind of you know I mean you know [TS]

  and if they're if they're And I'm glad that they're never going to be going right at you like I feel like I was saying [TS]

  before. [TS]

  Don't run of five point one mix out of less than five point one speakers because some sounds are only on a certain [TS]

  channel and you were literally not hear them [TS]

  and so you won't understand what someone is replying to it's like you're not hearing the whole movie. [TS]

  So you have to play those speakers. But you just want them to play like just play the sound like. [TS]

  If they could be route them to the right. [TS]

  Left of the right channel [TS]

  or just play the sound straight at me because I'm not interested in feel I can feel like I'm surrounded. [TS]

  I just want all of the sound coming straight for me anyway. Well. I can't wait to hear your view of this Amber. Thanks. [TS]

  Doesn't even fit though that's another thing I would love for you to unpack the thing and realize. [TS]

  It doesn't fit either. I measured and it should fit but should is different from does in practice we'll see. [TS]

  And if I have my car back for a week until it goes into the body shop. My was a little bodies out. [TS]

  So the area in which my house is and in between my house and work. There's a landfill. Don't be creepy and. [TS]

  One of the main access roads to the landfill is one of the roads I drive on there's probably bore them one landfill in [TS]

  for Jeanette Casey. Well in the Richmond area. [TS]

  I genuinely don't know how many there are that are accessible to the public so what happens is people who perhaps live [TS]

  in like extraordinarily rural sections of this area which there are some but there. They're relatively far out. [TS]

  Or if you just don't feel like paying for trash service you can bring your trash to the landfill and. [TS]

  And you can dump it yourself Well the problem is nobody actually secures their trash as they're driving up this main [TS]

  access road. And one day I was driving to work. [TS]

  And apparently was daydreaming I wasn't MY PHONE hand on heart I was on my phone was [TS]

  and fiddling with the radio I was just apparently not paying enough attention the road. [TS]

  And I must a clip like a piece of wood or something and I heard this tremendous like Crash or bang or something and. [TS]

  And I've discovered a day or two later because I went looking around the cart and seen a thing and I discovered a day [TS]

  or two later that. I had apparently kicked it up with my rear passenger to the tire. And it impacted on the fender. [TS]

  Like on the very edge of the fender. [TS]

  And so there's like this really bad like impact on the fender so it's going into the body shop next week for a parent [TS]

  me a week's worth of body repair just for that one Fender issue. [TS]

  To the tune of a thousand dollars that thankfully insurance has already paid for. But yeah. [TS]

  Yeah and then you have had some car problems as well I hear. So fortunately I have an employment to go get my. [TS]

  My snow tires installed and get whatever. B.S. I'm supposed to get a mileage. Next week already. But. So yesterday. [TS]

  My trunk stopped opening. So I don't have a trunk. For the time being. Well just use your for oh wait never mind. [TS]

  There is literally no way to open it so it's one of those. It's one of those electric lifting. Trunk. Gate things. [TS]

  So if there is no mechanical way to open the trunk you have to do. [TS]

  It has to invoke the electric motor the controls it somehow. [TS]

  And there's like three different to do you can do it on the key fob you can. You can grip the button. [TS]

  That's on like under the trunk lid. Like where the anyone else would put a latch. [TS]

  There's a button there that you just push and it opens or there's a button in the driver's side foot well. [TS]

  None of those work. They all like pull them and it just does nothing. [TS]

  And I don't think you can get to it from the cabin. [TS]

  Because I think the whole point of like the various locks that are on the fold down seats in the back I think the whole [TS]

  point is that you aren't supposed to have access to the trunk. Without going through the trunk. [TS]

  Now if you had if it was mechanical and mechanical cars you had a key thing. A very often in the back seat. [TS]

  You put a key actual physical HE WOULD YOU DO YOU EVEN HAVE. You know. Yes buried in the key fob. [TS]

  I think I actually might have one of those little key slot in the in like the. The ski pass through. Yeah exactly. [TS]

  And then if you get to that what you can do is get to the one that they have to put in there probably by law for like [TS]

  if you get trapped in the trunk you have a way to get out. You know that little thing. Yep yep yep. [TS]

  Yeah little people handle things out. So if you send out a man sent in a vendor this key thing and say OK Adam. [TS]

  Pulled a little red hen Liza's Daddy I'm scared of these i just bought it anyway intentionally.. [TS]

  You'll open the trunk but this. This I think the first car I ever saw the did this was. I agree C.L. [TS]

  I remember looking at it and noticing that the trunk lid. Had no. No place to put a key and. [TS]

  And no handles whatsoever on a bike I think they did it for us that excite car looks a smooth [TS]

  and slick just to have the strength in that comes down and you don't have any of these silly. [TS]

  Key openings or handles or whatever. I assume it was still mechanical and you'd pull the little thing in. [TS]

  You know the driver's foot well over never. But what I thought was well that's stupid. It's like John. [TS]

  I've time of purely for us that if you don't provide a mechanical latch [TS]

  or a place for sticking at Margo's thing is more like. [TS]

  We want little tiny electric motors and circuits that will fail because probably electronics and cars are [TS]

  and possibility. Instead of having a lot but on your car. There's a place like you said. [TS]

  That would be where you would put the latch. [TS]

  You wouldn't see it it would be fine it would work but this I you know I know all motors and of the motors fell. [TS]

  Just forget about everything the trunk. And this one thing like. [TS]

  So I got the electric trunk because it was part of a package and. [TS]

  I kind of had to get it if I wanted to bunch of other cool stuff. Since the beginning of having this I have said. [TS]

  This is stupid and I would prefer the car not have this if given the option to just delete that. [TS]

  Because everything about an electric trunk is worse than a manual truck. There is literally nothing. [TS]

  There is no benefit so. First of all it has like the cool feature. [TS]

  Readers wave your foot under the bumper in the trunk opens. Yet you know how often that works. [TS]

  Just to stand there doing the B.M.W. Damn waving your foot Yeah. [TS]

  Waving your foot bumper and cursing your trunk because it's not like. [TS]

  That's the kind of thing you try like twice maybe any other I'm never doing this again. [TS]

  So that's problem or one like those things just don't work. [TS]

  They work frequently enough that you can tell it's not broken. But infrequently. You never want to do it. [TS]

  So that's from a problem or two. Is that the electric. [TS]

  Whatever whatever mechanism raises and lowers this is kind of permanently engaged. [TS]

  So that if you want to like manually close the trunk. [TS]

  There's so much resistance you actually kind of can't do it or you have to push really hard and go to really slowly. [TS]

  Like it isn't. It isn't like it like a bike gear were just disengage when it's not applying pressure like. [TS]

  It is just always engage your like pushing down really hard trying to many close if you ever need to that's no good. [TS]

  So you can always have to use the motor which is probably my problem right now. [TS]

  The reason I can't open it was something failed in and. There is no manual way open it. [TS]

  So is also making a way to close it. So that's that's annoying and. It's slow. [TS]

  Like if you haven't a regular trunk lid a regular mechanical trunk lid. You can close it and open it. [TS]

  Way faster than the people with the stupid electric ones like me. [TS]

  That's the one advantage of is that you can slam your hand on the lecture on his associate go so damn slow [TS]

  and presumably has the back off thing that if your hand was stuck in it would be like whoa I'm getting too much [TS]

  resistance that's true it does but. I mean I've I've been driving a long time I've never had that happen. [TS]

  Have you ever had that happen. The only place. Well. [TS]

  It's for like little kids again our hands because the only place I like trick. Thing makes any kind of sense. [TS]

  Is for many vans where very often the lift the let's get in the back. Is so high that short people can't even reach. [TS]

  To close it. [TS]

  And if you can reach it it's sometimes difficult to get enough a waiter leverage if you are a smaller lightweight [TS]

  person to pull that giant lid all the way down. [TS]

  That's And the same thing I'm any man's with the sliding doors with kids getting in [TS]

  and out of it is a big you know getting your hand caught red. [TS]

  So those are electric as well because you know it may be hard for a kid to pull that big heavy door closed. [TS]

  And it's a very easy for people to get their hands got because kids are stupid and fight around doors [TS]

  and shove their hands and gaps to try to stop those whatever [TS]

  and the electric one solves that problem in those things [TS]

  and the final reason to make sense for many bands is a lot more minivans are sold than B.M.W. M five. [TS]

  And any type of thing like this any kind of car related technology. We're talking about this with the. Tesla Model X. [TS]

  Going door. Things or whatever you do not want to be this feature to only be on a low volume car. [TS]

  You want them to be the nine hundred that are racing of this feature that sells thousands [TS]

  and thousands of copies every single year so they can get the kinks worked out of it. [TS]

  Regular trunk lives and that they put on like a Honda Accord or you know. Toyota Camry or trying to Corolla. [TS]

  You can be damn sure that if there's anything wrong with that trunk closing. Magnetism the next or vision of the Camry. [TS]

  They will work on it and you repeat that process for fifteen twenty years. [TS]

  They're pretty much have the stupid Well the do snack manual trunk lid things and latch. Down to the point. How many. [TS]

  I think the electric closing thing in your B.M.W. [TS]

  Have five trunk lid is probably a beautiful Be Spoke mechanism made only for this year's men five. [TS]

  And the total number of electric closing B.M.W. Trunk lid sold in the history of B.M.W. [TS]

  Is probably less than the number of Camry sold this year. Bruce S. [TS]

  On the chat point something out to me or to us which got me thinking and so a little bit of real time follow up there. [TS]

  Well let me start by reading page thirty nine of your owner's manual. [TS]

  Manual for a good one of us who has read it by the way. I'm sure. [TS]

  In fact I think I cracked the soap lippy efforts in open before we went to Germany which is because I'm not much for a [TS]

  nerd but anyway I did. The manual operation in the event of an electrical fault. Manually operate the unlocked. [TS]

  Trunk lid. Slowly and smoothly. To close it completely push the trunk lid down lightly. It is closed automatically. [TS]

  What. What does that even mean that going to make a sound like if it's stuck open. You can close it carefully. [TS]

  Very weird. Anyway. But to continue on the thing a precise product which I had forgotten about. [TS]

  In my glove box but apparently in your center armrest. There is actually a segregated. [TS]

  Locks which specifically for the trunk. [TS]

  So you might want to run to your car feel free to do that now if you'd like whoa hold on run to the current just double [TS]

  check that the switch is flicked the appropriate direction. [TS]

  I might actually want me to do this and wait here both before you go. [TS]

  Let me just send your screen shot of the relevant portion because I want to make sure you see what I'm talking about [TS]

  now not to be able to put this in the chat room because I don't use like droplet or anything like that [TS]

  but I'll put it in our little robot here is that a little go pro on its head so we see the Marco Cam [TS]

  and I think that's right. I think I've seen it. All right let me try it out on America. [TS]

  Well kind of person doesn't read the manual for their car horn knows. [TS]

  ALL MY GOD THANK YOU I don't get it because you'll never discover the U.I. [TS]

  Is so bad you'll never discover over you press [TS]

  and hold this button it does some feature that you always wanted in your car. [TS]

  I guess is baby easier than you can control the phone with high court even first terrible estate. [TS]

  The infotainment system is at the very least of his menus. [TS]

  So I could find all there is an option to make it so you only have to press their remote wants to lock all four doors [TS]

  instead of having to do it twice or to write writer on lock off orders that about going to do twice. [TS]

  I want to know I've read my Daniel it least once cover to cover. [TS]

  And you see the whole area things they tell you about engine break and stuff like seriously. [TS]

  It's never going to happen. Any car any car. [TS]

  I've owned if memory serves they're like don't do NOT engine brake that's what the brakes are for. [TS]

  And I always enjoy a break. No I mean break in not. Not all over. [TS]

  You don't know your manual say no engine braking I still do it. [TS]

  They do it because I was like the telling you to do because they want you to go through your brake pads faster like no. [TS]

  Well [TS]

  and I think the thing is if you're going to find if you can put pressure on anything want to put pressure on the thing [TS]

  that's easy to replace right. But with that said I still engine brake constantly. Well it's a calculus. [TS]

  You put pressure on the engine if you're leasing Like I said the pressure on the engine maybe it's for for any more [TS]

  finicky cars but I have never I keep my cars for ten years plus. And you break all the time although the manual. [TS]

  Never any engine problems that could conceivably be attributed to engine braking [TS]

  and less engine braking causes my radiators to rust out my with my one of them to die. [TS]

  Which always happens around two thousand. [TS]

  But I feel like what's going to happen your head guess it's going to blow like one of the afraid is going to mess with [TS]

  the valve train on with the I well my valve train is now brand new I'm with you. Oh by the way. [TS]

  Parents this is actually fun and I want to get to what Marco discovered but [TS]

  when they did my valve train they said that I should get the sheet out it doesn't matter but suffice to say that [TS]

  when they were pulling the injectors which apparently was part of this process. They had to apply too much torque. [TS]

  To get the injectors out so that the. [TS]

  Anguish for them that they broke something called are saying they're trying to pull them out hard doing goes home [TS]

  and then. Well you broke it. [TS]

  Whenever you very well could be right but according to the service advisor who I do actually trust. [TS]

  They apparently pitched all six injectors and gave me new ones which I thought was interesting. [TS]

  And I mark a what did you discover. It was locked. [TS]

  Now this is annoying because you're the one that's going to do this that [TS]

  and then we will know no one will ever hear this a lot of listeners. This is this is a pact between all of us that you. [TS]

  You can remind Marco and time you want but he doesn't know how to work is on target didn't read the manual. Yup. [TS]

  Who reads the manual. Both So I would just this is not what you were gone I always do. [TS]

  Like Ms otherwise I was saying to take it easy otherwise you don't find these old days of secure features in your car [TS]

  because the U.I. [TS]

  Is so bad you would never guess you had to press this button or hold this button [TS]

  or whatever activates this thing better than you can control because you can read stuff [TS]

  but if you don't read the manual you just won't know how your car works you won't know where all the little things are. [TS]

  I certainly I mean it was right in the center armrest thing which I have. [TS]

  You know there's like change in there the tune of Alto oid There's i Phone battery. [TS]

  Yeah so who's going in there [TS]

  and you basically actually bump it with your tin of Alto it's a real number that is most likely to happen. [TS]

  Yeah I mean I don't know but it is that is most likely you know. [TS]

  Accidental bumping of the switch which is right in there. We think of you an embarrassing trip to the dealer. Yeah. [TS]

  Well it was a combination of us Rousseff actually because I'd forgotten about that [TS]

  and it soon as Bruce has settled that thing in the glove box was like. [TS]

  Yes that's right I completely forgot and then that. [TS]

  The last time we were looking in the manual for Marcos to try to find his battery another you have no idea where the [TS]

  battery is a vector people other people are reading Marco's cars manual but him not so much. [TS]

  Clearly I don't need to crowdsource that. [TS]