The Accidental Tech Podcast

164: Waiting for the Bla-Bloop


  I like the fact that every time I [TS]

  started call i have to click the button [TS]

  to say that I want to see the chat even [TS]

  though every single time Mr Colley do it [TS]

  yeah of all of all the work they've put [TS]

  into skype they've never decided to make [TS]

  that persistent you know God forbid [TS]

  application remember anything that you [TS]

  do it it's born in New everyone happy [TS]

  birthday [TS]

  we have important things to talk about [TS]

  so we should dive right in house the [TS]

  Tesla not that different from my opinion [TS]

  of it last week [TS]

  it's amazing like yeah it's just amazing [TS]

  I i really am appreciating it more and [TS]

  more everyday which and I already [TS]

  appreciate it quite a bit so that's [TS]

  saying a lot [TS]

  I'm very happy with the decision I made [TS]

  to go with it I'm also very happy with [TS]

  the one I chose to get not getting the [TS]

  faster with less range for a lot more [TS]

  money i I'm just very happy with it [TS]

  now tell me about you tweeted earlier [TS]

  today as we record that you put like [TS]

  this little teeny tiny USB stick [TS]

  what is this all about is this to put [TS]

  like a three fish songs because it's [TS]

  like a 30 gig stick right so that's like [TS]

  three or four fish songs it's 220 a cake [TS]

  sticks so it's six fish songs [TS]

  fair enough i don't actually need a [TS]

  hundred twenty eight gigs of storage in [TS]

  my car but it was like 10 bucks more [TS]

  than that [TS]

  that's what i needed so it's like okay [TS]

  just in case i'm sure i will have some [TS]

  reason to use under 20k USB stick it was [TS]

  like 40 bucks is that all they aren't [TS]

  could grief yeah exactly so this is this [TS]

  is the first USB stick i've ever [TS]

  purchased really i've never really used [TS]

  them and I I've accumulated enough like [TS]

  little ones from freebies from things [TS]

  here and there over the last decade that [TS]

  if I ever needed one for like the the [TS]

  one time every two years I might [TS]

  actually need 1i would just use one of [TS]

  those but none of them are big enough [TS]

  and and if you wait until 2016 to buy a [TS]

  USB stick USB sticks are really good and [TS]

  are almost free so I want something very [TS]

  very small because this is in the it's [TS]

  in the center console of the car it's [TS]

  like in the passenger was visible and [TS]

  it's protrudes from from a port so [TS]

  wanted to be as small as possible [TS]

  you know there is a base like this one [TS]

  and a sandesh one and the reviews of the [TS]

  Santa's gonna haul said that overheated [TS]

  constantly and was and like ran weirdly [TS]

  hot all the time and land the samsung [TS]

  what everyone said that works great [TS]

  doesn't overheat like that we're Santa's [TS]

  one so I want that and the only the only [TS]

  downside of it you know it's incredibly [TS]

  fast [TS]

  sb3 and has really high quality flash in [TS]

  there it's a samsung is really good [TS]

  flash i also have samsung external flash [TS]

  drive just in a two-and-a-half-inch [TS]

  enclosure from a computer because they [TS]

  make two gig SD or sorry two terabyte [TS]

  ssds now for like 600 bucks and granted [TS]

  $16 a lot of money and two terabytes is [TS]

  not an earth-shattering amount of space [TS]

  and 2016 however a two terabyte SSD that [TS]

  exists at all let alone is an affordable [TS]

  price is quite something [TS]

  yeah so I'm very happy with that because [TS]

  it is totally silent and very very fast [TS]

  and so I started on my media on there [TS]

  anyway so this little samsung stick the [TS]

  only flaw in it is that it has this [TS]

  giant Samsung logo written on the part [TS]

  of it sticks out so I just send it off [TS]

  with some you know like sandpaper in [TS]

  about five minutes [TS]

  I found my garage and it's great so now [TS]

  it's a nice blank is a USB Drive that is [TS]

  perfect [TS]

  turns out USB stick your kind of useful [TS]

  sometimes so anyway the reason is there [TS]

  my car is a because the car has the [TS]

  ability to like many modern car stereos [TS]

  to browse folders of mp3 files that you [TS]

  put on USB storage medium media and i [TS]

  don't think i have to double check but [TS]

  I'm i was pretty sure that it didn't [TS]

  have the ability to use like the the [TS]

  ipod music browsing interface off from [TS]

  the iphone that was plugged in so which [TS]

  is fine because i actually prefer like [TS]

  having folders i can organize things [TS]

  because I don't take my entire [TS]

  collection in the car because most my [TS]

  collection and doesn't matter in the car [TS]

  so it's nice to kind of build organized [TS]

  into folders and have actually [TS]

  subfolders at like so i have a folder [TS]

  for fish 2015 and then in that is like [TS]

  each 2015 tour like an organized and I [TS]

  want which is kind of different from [TS]

  what you get in like a typical ipod [TS]

  thing and it plays the songs in order [TS]

  which thank god it's amazing [TS]

  I don't know who who designed whatever [TS]

  system many other car manufacturers and [TS]

  head unit manufacturers use wear [TS]

  whatever you insert it plays the songs [TS]

  like alphabetically by song title [TS]

  whoever wants to hear things [TS]

  alphabetically by song title there are [TS]

  two [TS]

  orders that you're like to play things [TS]

  in either the order that they are on the [TS]

  album or shuffle [TS]

  nobody ever wants any other order yes [TS]

  the i have I don't remember how much [TS]

  music I have my car only have about 12 [TS]

  gigs that's available to me I believe [TS]

  but I almost exclusively listen to stuff [TS]

  on my car and even the Bluetooth stack [TS]

  is pretty good on my car i find it just [TS]

  easier to navigate the eye dr and so [TS]

  with that in mind would you why do you [TS]

  not use bluetooth on the test i would [TS]

  think not having played with it that [TS]

  that being able to manipulate things on [TS]

  the test would be a lot easier because [TS]

  you have that whole big display there [TS]

  but i guess if all you really have [TS]

  available to you via bluetooth is like [TS]

  skip forward skippack play/pause maybe [TS]

  it's not really any different than any [TS]

  other car [TS]

  you're right that having to be displayed [TS]

  there actually does make it much more [TS]

  useful when you're doing things like [TS]

  navigating a USB stick full of folders [TS]

  and stuff so that is awesome on there [TS]

  you are also right that bluetooth is [TS]

  very limited its interaction and making [TS]

  this problem worse [TS]

  Tesla's bluetooth implementation isn't [TS]

  particularly great it's it's an ok one [TS]

  but there's a couple of shortcomings the [TS]

  biggest one to me is that it doesn't [TS]

  display the time elapsed or remaining [TS]

  which is really annoying for podcasts [TS]

  more more humorously there is some [TS]

  method to transfer album art and many [TS]

  blue stereos will show album art as [TS]

  transferred from anybody [TS]

  I think that's actually an apple [TS]

  extension to the standard or something [TS]

  anyway it doesn't matter [TS]

  test doesn't support the album art [TS]

  extension or whatever displays albemarle [TS]

  over bluetooth so instead they show you [TS]

  the album art from some kind of central [TS]

  album art database of a fuzzy match of [TS]

  whatever title is being supplied by the [TS]

  device so it tries to be smart but then [TS]

  you end up with completely nonsensical [TS]

  random often like slightly risque album [TS]

  art when you're listening to like back [TS]

  to work [TS]

  it's like it's a it makes no sense [TS]

  look at the other day was like back to [TS]

  work and feeling someone growing a [TS]

  bikini like some albums like you gotta [TS]

  be kidding me like at that they're [TS]

  driving around like my game is my son's [TS]

  high school or preschool parking lot and [TS]

  and they're like this bikini girl [TS]

  showing on my dashboard like oh my god I [TS]

  got a little something else [TS]

  that's not gonna work it so yeah that is [TS]

  very student eh I I hope Tesla improves [TS]

  that shortly i'm not i'm not you know [TS]

  keep my hopes of your site i know that [TS]

  chances are they'll just be had this car [TS]

  is for most of the time i have it [TS]

  because nobody cares about this area of [TS]

  the software accept me but yeah well you [TS]

  said you never work at Apple would you [TS]

  work at Tesla i mean i don't really want [TS]

  to move to California for a job however [TS]

  i'll actually did I was thinking [TS]

  recently like you know what I what I be [TS]

  interested in working for husband and i [TS]

  think i think it would be actually [TS]

  potentially very interesting it i would [TS]

  certainly it would certainly give me [TS]

  pause i would certainly consider it not [TS]

  you know not to work on any of like the [TS]

  fancy electrical stuff because I'm not [TS]

  qualified and also don't care but I you [TS]

  know to in order to work on like the the [TS]

  like in the in dash software the [TS]

  touchscreens offer the interface the [TS]

  media stuff maybe you know I don't know [TS]

  maybe what if you had to leave the house [TS]

  change the answer a little bit maybe a [TS]

  little [TS]

  could I bring hops the whole mm like a [TS]

  job for you get up and you getting your [TS]

  Tesla and you drive to the office you do [TS]

  your work there and then you drive back [TS]

  home and you have to do it monday [TS]

  through friday and when you take [TS]

  vacation you have to tell them and you [TS]

  get a certain number of those a year [TS]

  reminding you what a job is if i could [TS]

  if i can wear my slippers and if i can [TS]

  take naps at the office then then yes [TS]

  slippers i don't know i think although [TS]

  we have some people at work who wear [TS]

  socks and some people work who are [TS]

  barefoot but I I feel like that is not [TS]

  the norm [TS]

  do you ever rocky those look strong and [TS]

  hope you kidding i mean if you've been [TS]

  in the if anyone has ever been in an [TS]

  office late in New England you see the [TS]

  the mice to come out like I mean you [TS]

  just use their let you look over in like [TS]

  I was a mouse just hop across the carpet [TS]

  and then you think about the people [TS]

  walking around all day with socks or [TS]

  bare feet in his office tonight [TS]

  nope just the big note there [TS]

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  part is a big deal here their fees are [TS]

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  alright so anonymous wrote in again [TS]

  anonymous does that from time to time [TS]

  and they cleared something up sort of [TS]

  about Apple renewable energy and i was [TS]

  wondering and I think a lot of people [TS]

  are wondering and are they really using [TS]

  renewable energy or they just like doing [TS]

  offset sort of thing so anonymous wrote [TS]

  apples engaging agreements for 15 to 25 [TS]

  years of power from renewable facilities [TS]

  by contracting with the wind or solar [TS]

  developer and agreeing to a fixed price [TS]

  of power over the term so apple doesn't [TS]

  physically use this power instead they [TS]

  agree to pay the wind or solar operator [TS]

  to the fixed price per megawatt-hour of [TS]

  energy generated by the farm the [TS]

  operator then sells the actual power [TS]

  into the local market or utility service [TS]

  area where the facility is located [TS]

  and I don't know John do you want to [TS]

  kinda still this whole economic bit [TS]

  after here I believe this anonymous [TS]

  person with somebody who works for some [TS]

  alternative energy works in the [TS]

  alternative energy industry and I don't [TS]

  think they were going from any [TS]

  first-hand knowledge of contracts but [TS]

  just like last time we talked about [TS]

  solar and everything in that I think [TS]

  some people have a vision in their minds [TS]

  of Apple building solar farms and [TS]

  connecting a big wire from the solar [TS]

  farms to their facilities which may be a [TS]

  thing that happens in certain [TS]

  circumstances depending on the geography [TS]

  and the available existing alternative [TS]

  energy sources and then other people are [TS]

  imagining all apple is doing is buy [TS]

  offsets from some distant land and just [TS]

  saying we'll pay you for that energy and [TS]

  that offsets the energy were taken from [TS]

  our local power provider and then you [TS]

  give that energy to the people who live [TS]

  near the existing solar wind farm and I [TS]

  imagine they do all those things and [TS]

  this feedback we had more detail in [TS]

  terms of the specifics of the agreement [TS]

  of not just that they're paying for [TS]

  energy you know elsewhere because like [TS]

  there's a you know solar power facility [TS]

  miles and miles away and they're not [TS]

  gonna like run a wire from that to them [TS]

  you know but that there is not even that [TS]

  the entered these contracts where they [TS]

  say will pay you a certain amount every [TS]

  month for you know for each [TS]

  megawatt-hour of energy and it's not [TS]

  like a bet between the alternative [TS]

  energy provider and apple because if it [TS]

  turns out that the price to generate the [TS]

  energy was lower than what Apple agreed [TS]

  to pay then that's good because the the [TS]

  universe solar operator says we only [TS]

  have to pay you know two cents per [TS]

  megawatt hour and you're buying it from [TS]

  us for for a dollar per megawatt-hour we [TS]

  get to keep the difference and the [TS]

  reverse is true too if it costs the [TS]

  solar energy provider always turns out [TS]

  this month that crosses ten bucks per [TS]

  megawatt-hour an apple agreed to pay us [TS]

  a one-dollar we just have to eat that [TS]

  nine dollars per megawatt hour so that [TS]

  the key financial deal here because if [TS]

  this comes in was talking about how [TS]

  Apple can do this because I have all [TS]

  this money to burn [TS]

  is that an indie luv this kind there's [TS]

  no upfront payment for the power of the [TS]

  facility already exists all apple has to [TS]

  do is enter into a contract with them [TS]

  and have this agreed-upon price in this [TS]

  particular arrangement i think what is [TS]

  it called a contract for differences [TS]

  it's called so you don't necessarily [TS]

  even have to have a lot of capital if [TS]

  you [TS]

  and enter into one of these agreements [TS]

  and it's just a matter of striking a [TS]

  good deal based on what you think it [TS]

  will actually cost over the long term to [TS]

  generate this power from this particular [TS]

  facility so anyway the world was weird [TS]

  and that is a a detail that's not [TS]

  particularly important it's not as of [TS]

  apples being disingenuous because buying [TS]

  offsets are entering into these [TS]

  agreements or paying for someone who [TS]

  lives near solar facility to get that [TS]

  energy from the solar facility while you [TS]

  get it from the coal fire plants like [TS]

  it's all it all comes out in the wash [TS]

  we're all on the same plan it's all the [TS]

  same atmosphere all the same co2 and if [TS]

  Apple didn't do this and didn't pay for [TS]

  these renewables no matter who is [TS]

  actually getting those specific [TS]

  electrons I would make a difference is [TS]

  what you're looking for is total you [TS]

  know total co2 output of the planet and [TS]

  not you know whether it's like right [TS]

  next to you or right next to someone [TS]

  else anyway I thought it was interesting [TS]

  alright so have all of us switch to [TS]

  purple safari i am using it on my work [TS]

  computer I just tonight installed on my [TS]

  imac but haven't started using it yet i [TS]

  should note actually as I forgot about [TS]

  this follow-up the beta of one password [TS]

  for sure in died at this point they [TS]

  might have released a new non beta [TS]

  version but anyway the beta of 1password [TS]

  supports the new purple safari so if you [TS]

  are having the same woes that I was you [TS]

  can run the beta additionally there's a [TS]

  switch and preferences that a couple [TS]

  people wrote wrote in to tell me about [TS]

  and forgive me because i don't have [TS]

  neither your names or the preference in [TS]

  front of me but even on the regular [TS]

  version somewhere in like the advanced [TS]

  preferences where they have a little [TS]

  love [TS]

  Yoda or the little Jedi looking person [TS]

  on the right-hand side of the robot or [TS]

  not there's a switch that says you can [TS]

  override the security checks on the [TS]

  browser but anyway we're not here to [TS]

  talk about one password were here to [TS]

  talk about purple safari so have you [TS]

  guys been using it [TS]

  I'm switched everywhere and last week I [TS]

  was worried that switching the that I [TS]

  have to somehow disabled my regular [TS]

  safari or would like get launched by [TS]

  like an apple event somewhere or you [TS]

  know whatever on but after using it [TS]

  both at home and at work for a week my [TS]

  fears were unfounded you switch the [TS]

  default browser in the Safari preference [TS]

  pains for either version of Safari you [TS]

  know pull the other one off your dock [TS]

  and it's purple safari all the way from [TS]

  there and it works fine maybe only [TS]

  annoyance i found is [TS]

  that it unlike chrome which will like [TS]

  sync your extensions everywhere I had to [TS]

  sort of reinstall my safari extensions [TS]

  and a lot of them i had to kind of track [TS]

  down and find the original websites [TS]

  where I mean I just dug them out of the [TS]

  folder but I was trying to you know it [TS]

  was a good time to just get them from [TS]

  the web again or go through the you know [TS]

  maybe get that the later version if I [TS]

  had a bad update your help anyway i had [TS]

  to reinstall my extensions rear and I'll [TS]

  rearrange all my icons on my toolbar [TS]

  re-import the options like I have said [TS]

  this far keyword extension lets you type [TS]

  stuff in the address bar and do searches [TS]

  I'd export those from safari import [TS]

  never once i got everything set up [TS]

  I'm all purple sorry now and I think [TS]

  I'll just stay this way unless i have [TS]

  some compelling reason to switch back [TS]

  like purpose of our suddenly starts [TS]

  crashing but so far so good i recommend [TS]

  people trying it out if you're [TS]

  interested in maybe having a little bit [TS]

  faster safari or if you're interested in [TS]

  any of the the many new web technologies [TS]

  that are interested like if your web [TS]

  developer and wanna try to map [TS]

  yeah I didn't feel like it was faster [TS]

  although that very well could be a [TS]

  placebo the fact but my remember things [TS]

  myself [TS]

  well this feels fast so I don't know but [TS]

  if you do you feel like it's been [TS]

  quicker for you as well [TS]

  purple is faster ever notice that I [TS]

  totally alright good talk [TS]

  I don't know what that reference was it [TS]

  was one anyway so there's been a pretty [TS]

  considerable kerfuffle going across the [TS]

  internet over the last couple of days [TS]

  about TextExpander six text expander is [TS]

  an app that have a sponsored us in the [TS]

  past i believe they have a sponsor so [TS]

  much stuff i think i'm pretty sure like [TS]

  I mean I think pfn sponsor my side while [TS]

  battle back is also smile so anyway [TS]

  they've probably spotted our stuff right [TS]

  so text expander six is new and it is [TS]

  moving to a subscription model and it [TS]

  previously was somewhere between like 10 [TS]

  20 bucks depending on the platform i [TS]

  believe and they tended to do an update [TS]

  about once a year from what i gather i'm [TS]

  actually not a text expander user but [TS]

  I'm that that's the general gist of what [TS]

  I've understood and they've announced [TS]

  that hey they're going to switch to [TS]

  subscription pricing it's about 50 bucks [TS]

  a year give or take and you can get sink [TS]

  through their own servers kind of like [TS]

  what one passwords doing now with one [TS]

  password four teams and one [TS]

  password families and actually day one [TS]

  as well so you can sync via their [TS]

  servers and you can have collaborations [TS]

  or you can have a shared TextExpander [TS]

  snippets across teams if that's [TS]

  something that you're interested in but [TS]

  by the way we are not supporting dropbox [TS]

  based sink anymore [TS]

  basically it's either use the old [TS]

  version until it doesn't work anymore or [TS]

  give us money and well and will give you [TS]

  the new hotness and a lot of people are [TS]

  flustered and we'll put a link to je [TS]

  sais blog which as always is a really [TS]

  good summary this is one of the longer [TS]

  ones I've seen actually but a really [TS]

  good summary and it kind of goes through [TS]

  a lot of different reactions and I think [TS]

  the general summary is those who are [TS]

  developers are no developers completely [TS]

  understand it and and are probably [TS]

  willing to pay for it but those who are [TS]

  just users or can kind of put on their [TS]

  user hat they it's it's a tough sell [TS]

  because I'm like 1password their kind of [TS]

  taking something away [TS]

  1password like it will continue to let [TS]

  use dropbox least for now and it seems [TS]

  that smiles taking away that option for [TS]

  any future versions so i don't know i [TS]

  don't really have a lot to say about [TS]

  this because like I said we're not text [TS]

  expander user but it's certainly a tough [TS]

  thing because how do you make money in [TS]

  the app store these days I mean it's not [TS]

  easy as a Marco no it's really not i [TS]

  mean you know my my view on this is [TS]

  certainly colored by my own experiences [TS]

  within the app store and and I have some [TS]

  distance from it because while I did [TS]

  purchase the most recent version texted [TS]

  before this when I was thinking I could [TS]

  actually answer support emails I don't [TS]

  currently use it because I turns out i [TS]

  can't answer support emails so I I'm not [TS]

  an active user so it doesn't i'm not [TS]

  really invested in it either way and at [TS]

  the same time I also now sell an appt [TS]

  with subscription pricing sort of i see [TS]

  why a lot of people are mad about this [TS]

  what I've seen from my own experience it [TS]

  is that people get mad when they sense [TS]

  that you're like double dipping or [TS]

  unfairly charging in and whatever their [TS]

  view is unfair or if you charge them or [TS]

  if you ask for money or if you put up [TS]

  barriers in a way that they are not [TS]

  accustomed to that breaks their [TS]

  expectations of like I've never had to [TS]

  pay this way before or never had to pay [TS]

  for this thing before or i thought i [TS]

  already owned this thing out right and [TS]

  this is all very very tricky these days [TS]

  because the reality is people's [TS]

  expectations of software you buy it and [TS]

  then you know you can use it for a while [TS]

  until maybe there's an upgrade a few [TS]

  years down the road and then you by the [TS]

  upgrade maybe a discount people's [TS]

  expectations of that kind of software is [TS]

  that you pay once and then you have it [TS]

  and at the same time though they also [TS]

  expect updates to it they expect you to [TS]

  be fixing bugs to be providing [TS]

  compatibility for new version of the OS [TS]

  and possibly even adding features all [TS]

  within that same initial price they paid [TS]

  somewhere on the line like that that [TS]

  doesn't work they are fatally the people [TS]

  are thinking of the benefits of the [TS]

  software and the responsibility of the [TS]

  software makers as a service that is [TS]

  constantly provided over time for their [TS]

  one initial purchase price but of course [TS]

  they get really mad if you want them to [TS]

  pay on a subscription basis for what [TS]

  they are really getting which is [TS]

  subscription benefits it's kind of hard [TS]

  to not do that in some way or another [TS]

  day filled with your software vendor you [TS]

  are having ongoing costs you're having [TS]

  cost as a service whether you're running [TS]

  servers or not it's like you're having [TS]

  constant ongoing maintenance of this app [TS]

  and and you know advancing moving [TS]

  forward keeping it working [TS]

  improving etc so there is this [TS]

  disconnect between what people are [TS]

  willing to pay for which is they want to [TS]

  pay once and own it forever but also [TS]

  that if you don't give them constant [TS]

  updates they will hate you even more for [TS]

  that and they certainly don't want to go [TS]

  out of business they really hate when [TS]

  you do that or when you pull a product [TS]

  they really hate that so that's worse [TS]

  so they want you to be there and to be [TS]

  providing updates on a regular basis and [TS]

  to fix any bugs the crop up and to [TS]

  improve the product [TS]

  make it work whenever there's new OS [TS]

  they want that but they don't want to [TS]

  pay more than that one time upfront so [TS]

  obviously something has to give here so [TS]

  I don't begrudge the idea of [TS]

  subscription pricing i do think however [TS]

  that this particular case I i don't [TS]

  think they did a very good job with it [TS]

  and I'm not too close to it so it's [TS]

  maybe i'm wrong but i think the reaction [TS]

  of a lot of their customers that have [TS]

  been hearing about from today at that [TS]

  might backup that I'm right [TS]

  what text expander has done is they've [TS]

  transformed from a like what was the [TS]

  president like 35 bucks something like [TS]

  that i don't know to be honest I thought [TS]

  it was closer to 20 originally but I [TS]

  very well could have that wrong i think [TS]

  whatever it is i think it's somewhere in [TS]

  that range right it has transformed from [TS]

  that into a required five dollars a [TS]

  month service so it's it's a pretty [TS]

  substantial price increase it as well as [TS]

  the justification for this service being [TS]

  something that they justify it by saying [TS]

  oh now you can like share your snippets [TS]

  with co-workers or family or whatever [TS]

  else and this is it's like they took [TS]

  away that the problem or the the [TS]

  solution they had for syncing for your [TS]

  own personal stuff between your own [TS]

  computers which was thinking via Dropbox [TS]

  or you know BitTorrent sync or whatever [TS]

  other options they had that you think [TS]

  pretty much any way you want to but i [TS]

  think a lot people to dropbox thinking [TS]

  they took that away and now they're [TS]

  saying now you have to pay us a lot more [TS]

  than you're paying before but you will [TS]

  get these benefits and the problem is [TS]

  those benefits were things that most of [TS]

  their customers at least we're hearing [TS]

  from I don't know the supplies their [TS]

  customer base but the customers were [TS]

  hearing from don't really want those [TS]

  benefits don't really care about the [TS]

  benefits and they're not going to use [TS]

  those benefits so the reason everyone's [TS]

  mad is because not only have they change [TS]

  the model in a way that a lot of people [TS]

  don't like a lot of people just don't [TS]

  like subscription pricing and again I [TS]

  totally get why people don't like that I [TS]

  don't like it either but I also don't [TS]

  like software that goes out of business [TS]

  or that can't afford to keep updated or [TS]

  anything else like so it's hard [TS]

  I recognize this the way that software [TS]

  developers really need to have some [TS]

  model that provides recurring revenue [TS]

  over time for users who are using all [TS]

  the time [TS]

  whether you do that via occasional [TS]

  upgrade upgrade pricing or whether you [TS]

  do it via a monthly subscription or some [TS]

  other scheme where they do that you know [TS]

  somehow you need to eat have some way to [TS]

  make money from people over time not [TS]

  just once up front I don't think you [TS]

  need to be deep in the development [TS]

  community like what you know the mindset [TS]

  you know certainly marcos coming from [TS]

  and all of us because we know developers [TS]

  and we talk to developers like we have [TS]

  that perspective but I think for this [TS]

  particular change I think you could take [TS]

  just anyone from business school and [TS]

  throw them at this and even understand [TS]

  what software is I think it it looks [TS]

  like so many other business decision so [TS]

  from my perspective what they're doing [TS]

  and explains a lot of the anger the [TS]

  marker just you know talking about from [TS]

  the the you know the customers [TS]

  perspective at the very least is they [TS]

  have a they have a customer base now the [TS]

  use the product if you were to serve as [TS]

  customer insight how much value do you [TS]

  get out of using text expander a lot of [TS]

  them would say you know I maybe I get 45 [TS]

  dollars worth of value added over the [TS]

  lifetime that i've been using it [TS]

  some would say maybe I you know it's [TS]

  like asking how much would you pay if we [TS]

  say we take Texas been away from you and [TS]

  to get it back you have to pay some [TS]

  money obviously if someone accuses at [TS]

  answer support email for example or like [TS]

  does a lot of repetitive emailing or [TS]

  uses very sophisticated features where [TS]

  you fill in the blanks everything like [TS]

  that they're going to say all you know [TS]

  this is the main tool i use to make my [TS]

  living like it is an essential part of [TS]

  my workflow of texas-pan was gone I [TS]

  don't know what I would do with myself [TS]

  it is incredibly valuable for me the [TS]

  fact that i paid forty five dollars for [TS]

  last year's like the steal of the [TS]

  century like this is literally how I get [TS]

  all my income and then the dream of any [TS]

  business school major is like can I [TS]

  charge that guy like three thousand [TS]

  dollars and then charged at the guy who [TS]

  is only going to use it twice a year [TS]

  like 5 bucks like can I charge every [TS]

  customer in the maximum amount they're [TS]

  willing to pay for this software [TS]

  yeah maybe and the answer is you can't [TS]

  do that because we don't know how much [TS]

  worth or whatever but what you can do [TS]

  and what it seems like to spend smiles [TS]

  trying to do with this one is say we've [TS]

  got all these customers for a lot of [TS]

  them they're getting like $45 for the [TS]

  value or even less out of the software [TS]

  but there are some users who get a [TS]

  tremendous [TS]

  Amanda values texture is very powerful [TS]

  if you do the type of things tech [TS]

  suspenders made to do is like [TS]

  best-in-class like very sophisticated [TS]

  features you know like it makes and you [TS]

  know love very polished workflow amateur [TS]

  products tables you know like this is [TS]

  this is a it's not just like my first [TS]

  text expander type thing this is a very [TS]

  substantial product for the people who [TS]

  do this all the time and you say i would [TS]

  rather just sell to those people for a [TS]

  much higher price in a way that we can [TS]

  continue to sell to those people [TS]

  essentially forever as long as those [TS]

  people exist because they're doing it [TS]

  for their job and we're going to provide [TS]

  them with this tool to do their job and [TS]

  the same kind of like photoshop have [TS]

  arrangement like your graphic designer [TS]

  you use Photoshop to make your living [TS]

  I and we will give you the tools to make [TS]

  your living and so you will subscribe to [TS]

  photoshop because it's a bargain to you [TS]

  to pay you whatever it is a hundred two [TS]

  hundred bucks a year to make thousands [TS]

  upon thousands of dollars is a graphic [TS]

  designer every year if we took away [TS]

  photoshop it would be seriously impair [TS]

  your productivity is you have to learn [TS]

  the program and so on so forth so it's [TS]

  like Texas matter is saying thanks for [TS]

  all the participation casual Texas [TS]

  manner users but we would much rather I [TS]

  he sell to the heaviest TextExpander [TS]

  users at a price that they find [TS]

  justifiable and that we feel like is the [TS]

  most sustainable the most profitable [TS]

  like whatever you know we're we're gonna [TS]

  make it up and lack of volume [TS]

  essentially is the opposite of we're [TS]

  going to make it up in volume [TS]

  I just want the good customers the ones [TS]

  who the power user customers and so why [TS]

  people are mad is Texas matter basically [TS]

  saying to them not really basically [TS]

  saying were not that interested in your [TS]

  business anymore as Texas matter was [TS]

  only worth $45 you want to use or five [TS]

  years that's not the kind of customer [TS]

  that we want to serve maybe it's because [TS]

  they feel like they can't serve it may [TS]

  be you know like I don't know what the [TS]

  what the motivation for it is but even [TS]

  if they were doing great they could say [TS]

  we're refocusing our business on the pro [TS]

  TextExpander market right and everybody [TS]

  who wasn't a pro tech centers like but I [TS]

  like TextExpander like I don't use that [TS]

  much but i really like it and now you're [TS]

  telling me i've been priced out of this [TS]

  market like because you want those other [TS]

  customers and that can definitely make [TS]

  people mad but what I keep thinking is [TS]

  the those people getting mad does that [TS]

  affect TextExpander at all [TS]

  like you know this that's the business [TS]

  you try a business model you see are [TS]

  there enough people who are willing to [TS]

  pay 50 60 bucks a year for Texas pander [TS]

  to make up for all the people you're [TS]

  losing who wanted to pay you know $45 [TS]

  once and use it for three years [TS]

  that's the experiment they're running i [TS]

  think it is a perfectly valid experiment [TS]

  to have but a necessary side effect is [TS]

  the sort of the disenfranchised become [TS]

  angry about the fact that previously [TS]

  they had access to this very powerful [TS]

  utility that maybe they only use the [TS]

  case when you're using a fraction of the [TS]

  power of and now they you know they can [TS]

  just use the old version until it [TS]

  eventually stops working and they you [TS]

  know that they've been cut out of that [TS]

  market and they have to look elsewhere [TS]

  it so they could be annoyed by it but i [TS]

  can feel like i can get MIT and [TS]

  particularly mad about it just because i [TS]

  think it is a it's a reasonable strategy [TS]

  for trying to make your business both [TS]

  more profitable which you know flavors [TS]

  all they just want more money yeah [TS]

  that's how business works i can get more [TS]

  profitable and more sustainable because [TS]

  if you get if you ever hit that critical [TS]

  mass like apparently adobe has many [TS]

  other companies are trying two of these [TS]

  users use my tool to make their living [TS]

  they're willing to pay this much every [TS]

  single year and that amount of the pay [TS]

  every single year with the number of [TS]

  them there are is enough to sustain [TS]

  development you can do that essentially [TS]

  indefinitely like as long as you know [TS]

  your competitor doesn't come and steal [TS]

  your thing or your practice and become [TS]

  moot because everyone uses mind control [TS]

  you know so many other things can affect [TS]

  you but at the very least you've got [TS]

  you've got the basic inner workings of a [TS]

  sustainable business model there which [TS]

  is a refreshing change after the sort of [TS]

  boom-bust you know viral hit a throwaway [TS]

  application you know the things that the [TS]

  app stores have brought on where it's [TS]

  like I gotta make a new app every year [TS]

  and it's got to be a big hit and if it [TS]

  isn't going out of business [TS]

  it's so much more comfortable to be able [TS]

  to have loyal customers who pay for your [TS]

  product and they're paying for your [TS]

  product every year pays for development [TS]

  you just do that you know if that really [TS]

  works out for them if they end up making [TS]

  more money from this that's fine I i [TS]

  think there's a couple angles to this to [TS]

  reconsider the first of all and I know [TS]

  you didn't say this but for people [TS]

  thinking this you can't just say oh they [TS]

  just want to make more money it might be [TS]

  that they were declining revenue and [TS]

  they're trying to sustain this business [TS]

  or to keep this product going all that [TS]

  that is making more money that is made [TS]

  more money more money than they were [TS]

  previously making the previous amount [TS]

  was not enough to keep them in business [TS]

  like they need to pay the bills and get [TS]

  the lights on [TS]

  right but like you can look at it as a [TS]

  computer green angle if like they were [TS]

  doing fine before I know that you want [TS]

  to juice it even higher but it's also [TS]

  possible that it was going down before I [TS]

  never trying to just like bring it back [TS]

  up to where it was right so and if you [TS]

  read between the lines and some of the [TS]

  statements they've made it sounds kind [TS]

  of like it wasn't making enough money [TS]

  before for them to justify working on it [TS]

  but do you draw a distinction between [TS]

  those two cases they just outlined as in [TS]

  previously we were sustainable but we [TS]

  felt like we can make more money with [TS]

  this model and previously we were [TS]

  unsustainable so we have to do something [TS]

  to avoid going out of business like you [TS]

  it do you think those those are really [TS]

  any different like is there is that [TS]

  distinction that you make as a customer [TS]

  certainly is a distinction you can [TS]

  imagine making just as kind of like a [TS]

  human being where if they are it looks [TS]

  like they're going to go into business [TS]

  you feel bad for you have empathy for [TS]

  like I like those guys i like their [TS]

  product I don't want to see them go out [TS]

  of business both for selfish reasons [TS]

  like you said because I'm user of the [TS]

  product and I don't you know I wanted to [TS]

  continue to be developed right and also [TS]

  because you feel bad like Oh they've [TS]

  been doing a good job [TS]

  their job is to write programs i think [TS]

  they're good at their job and I would [TS]

  like to see them succeed because you [TS]

  know just basic human empathy and [TS]

  therefore you're more willing to sort of [TS]

  you know allow for changes in their [TS]

  pricing model to sort of help them out [TS]

  versus they had a sustainable business [TS]

  and they just want more money and that [TS]

  suddenly that that is its villainous to [TS]

  do that like that that you should never [TS]

  that as soon as you have enough to pay [TS]

  your bills and not go hungry and pay for [TS]

  food and shelter you should never want [TS]

  more because wanting anything more is [TS]

  entirely like is essentially evil and [TS]

  that's that's agreed and I don't see a [TS]

  hard line between those things i know a [TS]

  lot of people do but it's like where do [TS]

  you draw that line when it was enough [TS]

  money like i have enough to have payroll [TS]

  and enough to pay my mortgage but not [TS]

  enough to to save for retirement send my [TS]

  kids to college is that ok asked to make [TS]

  more money then like I don't know that [TS]

  that if you start breaking that down and [TS]

  starts to be nonsensical so I'm [TS]

  personally going to give wide latitude [TS]

  to making more figuring out ways to make [TS]

  more money with your labor if you're [TS]

  good at writing software and the [TS]

  software product you have made and [TS]

  polished over the years is text expander [TS]

  and you find a way to make more [TS]

  money from that product I don't attach [TS]

  any moral judgment to that at all even [TS]

  if it means that a whole bunch of your [TS]

  previous customers are no longer in your [TS]

  customer base for future versions but i [TS]

  know a lot of people do it and i think i [TS]

  think a lot of that like what you just [TS]

  highlight Margo explains a lot of the [TS]

  anger that people really do draw that [TS]

  line of like you were making enough [TS]

  money to not do not live in the street [TS]

  already and now you want more forget [TS]

  your evil 02 a lot believe me I hear [TS]

  from them a lot of people thought that [TS]

  about that line and I'm not one of them [TS]

  but that you know that I think that [TS]

  could be something to consider here for [TS]

  it you know if you're getting angry at [TS]

  smile for really dramatically raising [TS]

  the price of this app in a way to you [TS]

  might not like you know it might be [TS]

  because they had to but also you have to [TS]

  look at the competitive landscape here [TS]

  there are lots of similar utilities that [TS]

  do the same basic job and just differ in [TS]

  like the features they offer on top of [TS]

  that you know so there's there's lots of [TS]

  alternative to this and honestly today [TS]

  following a very good day for them [TS]

  however you feel about this with you [TS]

  know whether your customer or not [TS]

  looking at it from smiles perspective I [TS]

  i think this was a mistake for them and [TS]

  time will tell i was sat on the market [TS]

  at all [TS]

  time will tell but they have basically [TS]

  discarded a big part of their existing [TS]

  customer base in an effort to either get [TS]

  more money from the parts left and/or to [TS]

  move into a more business-oriented one [TS]

  where there there will be allegedly [TS]

  businesses who use like synced snippets [TS]

  and everything from Texas matter and [TS]

  that might be a big business i don't [TS]

  know i don't I wouldn't have guessed it [TS]

  would be a big business but I'm wrong [TS]

  all the time so that might work out for [TS]

  them if it does that's fine but i don't [TS]

  think this is gonna go well because what [TS]

  I see mostly happening here is you know [TS]

  you could you can make a move like that [TS]

  when you are in a position of strength [TS]

  you know when when you're like the only [TS]

  game in town and people depend on you to [TS]

  get their work done and for a lot of [TS]

  people that will be true but I don't [TS]

  think for enough people because for a [TS]

  big part of the customers who are now [TS]

  faced with a big price hike and removal [TS]

  of features they used vs no other [TS]

  choices they [TS]

  have lots of other choices there's all [TS]

  these alternatives a software things [TS]

  that do this for substantially less [TS]

  money now you know be before they were [TS]

  much more competitive now like they're [TS]

  in a high competition environment so I I [TS]

  think I mean one way to do this or you [TS]

  know one way to resolve this [TS]

  if they wanted to make more money or [TS]

  need to make more money from this you [TS]

  can either cut the costs that you're [TS]

  putting into it or you can charge more [TS]

  both of those are going to affect your [TS]

  users negatively in some way [TS]

  the question is you know which one can [TS]

  you get away with better and I I'm not [TS]

  sure they chose correctly but i don't [TS]

  know how many choices they had AI don't [TS]

  know anything with the business and the [TS]

  natural consequence of this if you just [TS]

  keep playing it out is that you know [TS]

  it's like someone gets the idea we could [TS]

  be enterprise software we could charge a [TS]

  minimum five fingers for any [TS]

  installation of our things like what why [TS]

  not sell TextExpander into you know the [TS]

  sort of large email based support [TS]

  networks of like where if you if you if [TS]

  you're a very large company you just [TS]

  have to hire like literally hundreds and [TS]

  hundreds of people to answer your [TS]

  support emails and everything you'd want [TS]

  to give them tools to do their job well [TS]

  and sort of standardized and basic [TS]

  snippets and templates and so on and so [TS]

  forth you can imagine i'm sure there is [TS]

  really terrible enterprise over that [TS]

  already does that and text expander [TS]

  perhaps these that market and say i [TS]

  would rather sell 5 million dollar [TS]

  installations then yeah you know million [TS]

  five-dollar apps right like that we want [TS]

  to actually become enterprise offerings [TS]

  are as we discussed in many past shows [TS]

  enterprise software can be tempting and [TS]

  can be lucrative and you can be [TS]

  protected from competition by the fact [TS]

  that it's a pain in the butt to sell [TS]

  enterprise offering at the higher sales [TS]

  people is a high barrier to entry and [TS]

  you have relationships and make the old [TS]

  golf courses around the hell goes on but [TS]

  enterprise software is absolutely poison [TS]

  to the quality of your product and it [TS]

  makes you vulnerable to anyone making [TS]

  anything worth a damn because eventually [TS]

  you know the enterprise software the my [TS]

  definition for many years ago was like [TS]

  when the person who buys your software [TS]

  is not the person who uses it and that [TS]

  is a totally misaligned incentives and [TS]

  it leads to software that is very very [TS]

  attractive to buy but terrible to use [TS]

  like it's my big loop stays in business [TS]

  like you really you really want to you [TS]

  you are vulnerable to someone who [TS]

  actually makes a product that the users [TS]

  like because eventually [TS]

  even enterprise you start to result in [TS]

  bring their iphones to work or bring [TS]

  their max to work or bring whatever [TS]

  product they think is not a piece of [TS]

  crap and use that instead so it's not [TS]

  that I'm saying sex offender something [TS]

  terrible you know [TS]

  oracle or is a p-type company but that [TS]

  is if you just keep playing that out and [TS]

  say instead of mass-market low price [TS]

  let's do you know much smaller market [TS]

  much higher price and it could be like [TS]

  you said Marcus if the crowded market [TS]

  for text expander type products [TS]

  how does tex expanded differentiate what [TS]

  do they have the beloved ones don't [TS]

  maybe what they have is we have a very [TS]

  sophisticated feature set we want to be [TS]

  the pro TextExpander product we're going [TS]

  to leave the consumer market to our [TS]

  competitors and let them fight it out [TS]

  for you know thousands and thousands of [TS]

  people want to pay you know 5 10 15 20 [TS]

  30 40 bucks and we want to move up [TS]

  market and just keep the sort of [TS]

  high-end the people who are willing to [TS]

  pay more for a better fit more [TS]

  sophisticated product because part of [TS]

  how to do the job I don't know how to [TS]

  handicap neither like you said marker we [TS]

  need to run with notes like the intimate [TS]

  details of the text expander market [TS]

  landscape or whatever I have the same [TS]

  feeling that this doesn't seem like a [TS]

  Power Move to me this seems like [TS]

  something they would do because they [TS]

  were having trouble sustaining i do [TS]

  agree that the alternatives you later [TS]

  they're like maybe just lower your costs [TS]

  maybe they had hired too many people [TS]

  make you know I have no idea how big [TS]

  their their staffing is there but that's [TS]

  one way to go but the other way is to [TS]

  you know because I make it up and lack [TS]

  of volume can we make more money by [TS]

  selling to fewer people for a higher [TS]

  price and that seems again with total [TS]

  vacuum of knowledge to me if I had to [TS]

  make a bet i would say that that has a [TS]

  higher chance of failing and not because [TS]

  it's really really hard to do that i [TS]

  mean it's it's hard to do in either [TS]

  direction to say hey if we if we cut the [TS]

  price in half we get more than double [TS]

  the customers especially in the appstore [TS]

  market the way it is that has worked for [TS]

  many people more often than hey if we [TS]

  double our price or triple our price [TS]

  can we get more than half for his third [TS]

  as many people i don't know but this is [TS]

  business like I don't I again I [TS]

  understand what people get angry about [TS]

  it but like that's how it works and they [TS]

  decide a price and they say we are [TS]

  offering you the service priceline [TS]

  customers decide whether it's worth it [TS]

  for them it is not worth it they don't [TS]

  buy it and that is signal the company [TS]

  that you need to change something and if [TS]

  it is you know and maybe the signal they [TS]

  were getting with the $45 [TS]

  one-time purchase product was people [TS]

  will buy it but they don't like upgrades [TS]

  and we can't pay to maintain the [TS]

  software so i think we're just you know [TS]

  will come to revisit this in a year and [TS]

  see how it worked out for them but i [TS]

  think going on market is a viable [TS]

  strategy I just feel like they might [TS]

  have to go even farther on market than [TS]

  this and i agree with every Marco said [TS]

  about it's kind of like the you know the [TS]

  things we talked about with with [TS]

  overcast like perception-wise that you [TS]

  being cut out of the market you know in [TS]

  a way it makes you feel bad like I you [TS]

  know I like the previous deal i was [TS]

  getting and now they've altered the deal [TS]

  and case you can finish that reference [TS]

  for Murphy remembers it and they're sad [TS]

  about it and they also think there's no [TS]

  reason for it but i don't think they're [TS]

  looking at it from the perspective of [TS]

  texas-pan why should they are just the [TS]

  customer but from the perspective [TS]

  protect expands like maybe maybe to [TS]

  expand doesn't want you as a customer [TS]

  anymore it's like what do you mean you [TS]

  don't want me to bring such a loyal [TS]

  customer i love the product why wouldn't [TS]

  they want me anymore [TS]

  why can't why can't they just continue [TS]

  to make the product that i've been using [TS]

  it since withdraw can just keep taking [TS]

  me forever and the answer is because you [TS]

  don't want to pay for it again i do want [TS]

  a paper again i'll pay you forty five [TS]

  dollars right now would you [TS]

  suddenly you're ready to pay $45 they [TS]

  came up with universal TextExpander you [TS]

  bought six months ago you'd be excited [TS]

  to play $45 for a new version i don't [TS]

  know if you anyway even if you would [TS]

  maybe there's not enough other people [TS]

  like you and so they have to come up [TS]

  with something different it's it's not [TS]

  it's not personal just business [TS]

  I made passing reference earlier but i [TS]

  think it is important to reiterate that [TS]

  no one password change well maybe not [TS]

  change their model but augmented their [TS]

  model by this one password four teams [TS]

  and then one password for families and [TS]

  the thing that that made me cool with [TS]

  one password four teams one password for [TS]

  families was it didn't change the way [TS]

  things were so it was not a change as [TS]

  like I said a second ago was an [TS]

  augmentation or in addition if 1password [TS]

  hypothetically had said you know what if [TS]

  you want to sync between your own [TS]

  devices leave aside other people leave [TS]

  aside the team aspects of the family [TS]

  aspect if they had said that hey if you [TS]

  want to sync your passwords between your [TS]

  devices guess what you have to sign up [TS]

  for five dollars a month [TS]

  uh I would be fairly upset because I [TS]

  would feel like I got hoodwinked I would [TS]

  feel like it was a bait-and-switch and I [TS]

  freaking love 1password i consider it [TS]

  like you're I think it was you John [TS]

  describing earlier name is Marco but it [TS]

  is essential for me to get my my life [TS]

  done not even my work but my life I [TS]

  loved one password i would probably pay [TS]

  five dollars a month for this [TS]

  hypothetical sink only service but i [TS]

  would be pretty frustrated with it and I [TS]

  would perhaps go from saying i freaking [TS]

  love 1password to yeah I like 1password [TS]

  i use it as it turns out because there [TS]

  they didn't take away what i already had [TS]

  and additionally they they added this [TS]

  new family feature that's five dollars [TS]

  per I think her family per month and [TS]

  families to find us like I don't know [TS]

  fiber so people forget exactly the [TS]

  specifics [TS]

  I've signed up one password for family [TS]

  and that was actually the impetus I [TS]

  needed a to continue get Aaron using one [TS]

  password as well which we haven't [TS]

  actually done yet but it's on her to-do [TS]

  list for the weekend is to get Aaron [TS]

  finally using one password and and that [TS]

  to me is the right way to handle this [TS]

  but just like you guys said you know [TS]

  making I'm making all these [TS]

  proclamations in a vacuum and I don't [TS]

  know what with smiles dealing with I [TS]

  don't know what they're up against but [TS]

  taking away what's already there in that [TS]

  in that they're saying that they're not [TS]

  going to support dropbox and other sink [TS]

  methods man that it's hard not to feel [TS]

  burned by that and even if you're [TS]

  sympathetic to them it's hard not to [TS]

  feel burned but you wonder with it's [TS]

  like intentional like will see in the [TS]

  coming days if they change course [TS]

  because it could have been like [TS]

  1password it was essentially expanded [TS]

  their market like I said we have all [TS]

  these Yammer's their product we think [TS]

  some of these customers would be willing [TS]

  to pay more because it is really [TS]

  important to them so if we give them [TS]

  this one extra feature this family [TS]

  singing or whatever we're gonna leave [TS]

  all the existing customers with the [TS]

  product they have it's the same product [TS]

  it's not you know we're not excluding [TS]

  them we just want to expand the market [TS]

  with this new little bump in our little [TS]

  you know the blob that is the market put [TS]

  another little bump that's and these [TS]

  people are willing to pay five bucks a [TS]

  month everyone else keeps what they've [TS]

  got [TS]

  but we can we can extract more money [TS]

  from our customers for certain subset of [TS]

  the customers by giving them a little [TS]

  bit more and charging them a little bit [TS]

  more it totally see if that's what [TS]

  texture was trying to do doesn't seem [TS]

  like you did it well because what they [TS]

  did instead was took the blob that is [TS]

  their market sliced off most of it and [TS]

  then the remaining parts is the people [TS]

  who are willing to pay fifty dollars a [TS]

  year right if that's not what they [TS]

  intended then you'll see scrambling a [TS]

  week now all we've changed our mind in [TS]

  fact you can use text expander sync with [TS]

  sex offender sex with dropbox thinking [TS]

  or you can use text expander six with no [TS]

  syncing for the old price or whatever [TS]

  like will see like I'm basing my you [TS]

  know looking at what this move as if [TS]

  this is intentional because we all see [TS]

  the effects that it's happening i think [TS]

  they see the effects that is having if [TS]

  that is an intentional i think they will [TS]

  backpedal and say we need to what we [TS]

  really meant to do was actually just get [TS]

  more money from the people who use it a [TS]

  lot but not lose all those other [TS]

  customers because we totally need them [TS]

  so we'll see if they change their mind [TS]

  based on you know the first week or two [TS]

  of you know sales and returning and [TS]

  complaints about it but I think both of [TS]

  those strategies are viable like one is [TS]

  not made one of them makes Casey said I [TS]

  mean you know obviously if you're in the [TS]

  market that gets cut off by that [TS]

  strategy can be you know not good for [TS]

  you but in the end it doesn't you know [TS]

  from the company's perspective it [TS]

  doesn't matter except for perhaps [TS]

  long-term brand loyalty decisions but [TS]

  again if you're going towards the high [TS]

  end or enterprise the enterprise people [TS]

  may love you even more if you add all [TS]

  the super power user features like hell [TS]

  yeah i'll pay fifty dollars a year oh [TS]

  you know this is how I make my living [TS]

  sure you know [TS]

  sign me up and especially if they they [TS]

  realized after year that this means new [TS]

  versions come out regularly bugs get [TS]

  fixed [TS]

  you know better whatever but with as [TS]

  with all things you can't assume [TS]

  omniscient some on the part of either [TS]

  party here so it's it's it's possible [TS]

  that they just didn't anticipate the [TS]

  backlash and I guess we'll find out in [TS]

  the next week shows or the week after we [TS]

  also sponsor tonight by ring the ring [TS]

  video doorbell to ring dot com / ATP to [TS]

  see the ring video doorbell now video [TS]

  door bells are pretty cool gadgets and [TS]

  there's lots of reasons to have them for [TS]

  convenience of course you know there's [TS]

  you can see who's at your door you can [TS]

  respond and what's really cool is [TS]

  there's advanced motion detection here [TS]

  this alerts you whether or not somebody [TS]

  actually rings the doorbell or not if [TS]

  they're if there's just like a person [TS]

  who walks up to your door ring will [TS]

  alert you about that too it's like all [TS]

  ID for your house like no matter whether [TS]

  some reasonable or not they alert you to [TS]

  it [TS]

  regardless of whether your home or not [TS]

  because it uses your phone in addition [TS]

  to your actual doorbell like ringer [TS]

  so if you're not home you still get [TS]

  notified and you can respond through [TS]

  two-way audio through the ring doorbell [TS]

  so you can pretend like you're home [TS]

  the advantages here and only your [TS]

  convenience but also safety for your [TS]

  home in your possessions because ring is [TS]

  found over ninety-five percent of home [TS]

  break-ins and burglaries happened during [TS]

  the day and brothers usually start by [TS]

  ringing your doorbell to see if [TS]

  somebody's home and of course if they're [TS]

  home you'd generally move on right [TS]

  so with the ring video doorbell it can [TS]

  actually be a security benefits not only [TS]

  showing you when people walk up to your [TS]

  door and having a record of that but [TS]

  also it can help to her people first of [TS]

  all they know they're being watched once [TS]

  you respond and they'll think you're [TS]

  home and so they'll move on [TS]

  so in addition to all the incredible [TS]

  convenience features of having a video [TS]

  doorbell it's pretty great for home [TS]

  security as well you missed the [TS]

  essential feature of this we talk about [TS]

  home security and you know if you're not [TS]

  in the house the key one is for the [TS]

  ultra lazy you can hit the door without [TS]

  getting up with your catch you can send [TS]

  away so listeners you can you know tell [TS]

  the delivery guy just put it on the [TS]

  doorstep [TS]

  you know you could like you can see who [TS]

  it is and decide to pretend you're not [TS]

  at home all while you just sit in your [TS]

  living room watching TV i love that [TS]

  that's what you took away from this was [TS]

  like yes is really is in a blur i do you [TS]

  know how to get up from your couch you [TS]

  can just pick up your phone and go now [TS]

  I'm not answering that [TS]

  no sorry I'm not interested in whatever [TS]

  you're selling you know they're only [TS]

  robbing the civic it's fine [TS]

  ya know so check it out today it can [TS]

  work with your existing wiring for your [TS]

  doorbell or they also have a model that [TS]

  uses a battery so you don't need to wire [TS]

  it to ring dot com / ATP this is widely [TS]

  recognized as a great gadget by time [TS]

  magazine USA Today to name a few [TS]

  listeners get a free expedited shipping [TS]

  rate by using our co2 if you go to bring [TS]

  calm / ATP you get free fast shipping [TS]

  check out today with the ring video [TS]

  doorbell [TS]

  you're always home go to bring calm / [TS]

  ATP now thanks a lot [TS]

  this this actually segues into our our [TS]

  next our next topic slightly unbeknownst [TS]

  to Marco although he's probably the one [TS]

  who wrote it there because i think this [TS]

  is a good time to bring this up with me [TS]

  having my ipod stolen out of my car by [TS]

  the way speaking a lot of having sold my [TS]

  car when they got to having you guys [TS]

  were talking about your your various [TS]

  ways of trying to play folder show love [TS]

  mp3 is like it's 1994 and you're in your [TS]

  cars [TS]

  why do neither one of you do what I had [TS]

  been doing which is take one of the many [TS]

  old iOS devices that is no longer useful [TS]

  for anything and connect it through USB [TS]

  to your car and just leave it in there [TS]

  permanently aside from the fact you're [TS]

  afraid it's going to storm out of your [TS]

  car setting that aside if you do that [TS]

  you will get all the things you talked [TS]

  about like it you know real interface to [TS]

  playing things hopefully reasonable [TS]

  album art not worried about it actually [TS]

  doing things alphabetical if you park [TS]

  your car close enough to get Wi-Fi from [TS]

  your house and your thing has you know [TS]

  itunes in the cloud things think you [TS]

  won't even have to bring the thing back [TS]

  into put your music on your new musical [TS]

  just think to it you know silently when [TS]

  you drive your car home and just let it [TS]

  sit there right [TS]

  that seems like it would solve all your [TS]

  problems assuming you had a place to [TS]

  store the connected ipod and all that is [TS]

  is that not something you guys are [TS]

  interested now definitely i don't want [TS]

  another thing to manage i would either [TS]

  use the stuff that's built into the car [TS]

  like i was describing earlier because i [TS]

  actually don't have a problem with it or [TS]

  if it's not already in my car then I [TS]

  would just use bluetooth on my phone but [TS]

  what are you managing those likes it [TS]

  literally my thing is just it's plugged [TS]

  in in in a closed compartment and I [TS]

  never even see it and like I said now [TS]

  that that I park within Wi-Fi range of [TS]

  my house I it gets my new music on if i [TS]

  buy a new song that song is on my car [TS]

  like the next time I Drive it isn't [TS]

  there is nothing to manage you don't [TS]

  need to recharge it because it charges [TS]

  when you drive your car get all the [TS]

  features that you would expect like on [TS]

  my on-screen display showing the artist [TS]

  album the whole thing it even shows you [TS]

  know unicode characters and the title is [TS]

  correctly like everything just works and [TS]

  this is a honda accord i'm assuming all [TS]

  your fancy BMWs intestines have the same [TS]

  ability [TS]

  the only downside is you got to have an [TS]

  iOS device which is way larger than the [TS]

  little tiny thumb drive that mark eyes [TS]

  so it turns out [TS]

  Tesla actually does not support ipod USB [TS]

  interfaces [TS]

  Oh like the only support either USB [TS]

  folders like USB file browser or [TS]

  Bluetooth the preemptively spotting the [TS]

  Apple car gonna compete with us APPL [TS]

  rumored to be could possibly in the [TS]

  future competing with us no USB support [TS]

  for ipods I mean it also could be [TS]

  possible that like you know either a [TS]

  they haven't gotten to it yet because [TS]

  they're a little bit new at or be they [TS]

  just probably think like you know the [TS]

  future is Bluetooth anyway for you know [TS]

  for that kind of role for most people so [TS]

  it'sit's kind of it probably isn't worth [TS]

  the trouble to build that into a car [TS]

  that like you started the media system [TS]

  platform only a few years ago [TS]

  yeah I mean I couldn't you could do also [TS]

  the same thing like my ipod that I have [TS]

  plugged into the USB interface i could [TS]

  leave it plugged into USB just for [TS]

  charging purposes and then had that [TS]

  connect your bluetooth [TS]

  yeah like anyway anyway that sort of [TS]

  that derail the the the topics related [TS]

  to the ring doorbell is recording the [TS]

  show notes here who presumably written [TS]

  by Marco Marco recent experiments and [TS]

  home automation surveillance and general [TS]

  madness i'm adding that last part [TS]

  yeah this was my grab bag of topics that [TS]

  we were not if we're at a time or two [TS]

  topics today we wanted something else [TS]

  and you moved it out what you didn't run [TS]

  out i actually I shuffle shuffle it [TS]

  upwards because i see i see your tweets [TS]

  about like I doesn't can anyone tell me [TS]

  how to find a replacement for 3-way [TS]

  light switches that will respond to like [TS]

  voice commands to my amazon echo and it [TS]

  sounds like you're really you're really [TS]

  going off the deep end as as is your way [TS]

  so i actually don't wanna hear about it [TS]

  ok so let me let me preface by saying i [TS]

  think i said this last week that you [TS]

  know earlier in in I forget what it was [TS]

  but there was our Thanksgiving episode [TS]

  or whether it was after the new year [TS]

  sometime we were in a positive mood and [TS]

  we were expressing what we're going to [TS]

  do in the future this year whatever and [TS]

  one of the things I said was I because i [TS]

  had been having trouble getting excited [TS]

  about a lot of stuff coming out of apple [TS]

  recently I decided that you know I [TS]

  wanted to start exploring more outside [TS]

  of the apple ecosystem you know just [TS]

  other stuff other platforms other [TS]

  exciting things happening technology [TS]

  that aren't from apple and so that the [TS]

  test obviously was it was contributing [TS]

  to that quite a bit but also i've [TS]

  recently said you know what let me let [TS]

  me explore [TS]

  past a serie and everyone saying the [TS]

  Amazon echo is really good so you know [TS]

  what the heck I'll try you are our [TS]

  friends have fun for a while and [TS]

  whatever whatever we're over there i [TS]

  always think like you know that that's [TS]

  kind of really awesome i do you talk to [TS]

  it and plays good music and agency and [TS]

  like the voice activation was really [TS]

  good and fast and always worked and I [TS]

  think that's kind of incredible like you [TS]

  being because i'm not gonna try meant [TS]

  nothing about Apple but she'll be [TS]

  accustomed to serie a for Apple in the [TS]

  Amazon echo by comparison is extremely [TS]

  fast to recognize what you're saying and [TS]

  can recognize it at a seemingly much [TS]

  higher success rate from for me at least [TS]

  an enemy in the environment I've seen it [TS]

  and even in in conditions that you would [TS]

  think would be hostile like while it's [TS]

  already loudly playing music in a loud [TS]

  room and you are 12 feet away it can [TS]

  still recognize you [TS]

  most of the time so that it's actually [TS]

  surprisingly good if you're if you've [TS]

  only ever used Syria as like your voice [TS]

  control baseline it really is [TS]

  surprisingly good i would say in many [TS]

  ways substantially better probably not [TS]

  every way but in the ways that i use it [TS]

  for it is substantially better anyway so [TS]

  we got an echo [TS]

  I decided you know what else can this [TS]

  thing do and it turns out when you're [TS]

  not in you know similar to what is [TS]

  covered with USB sticks when you're not [TS]

  in the apple ecosystem nothing cost any [TS]

  money you can get a ridiculous number of [TS]

  like smart objects hey things things [TS]

  with ports or Wi-Fi in them for almost [TS]

  nothing so for instance one of the [TS]

  things because got was amazon dash [TS]

  buttons look at its this it seems [TS]

  ridiculous for five dollars which [TS]

  becomes a five-dollar credit once you [TS]

  use it so for basically free you get a [TS]

  little button the size of like a [TS]

  keychain with a sticky back and it's it [TS]

  comes assigned to a certain brands [TS]

  products things like Charmaine for for [TS]

  your toilet paper or bounty paper towels [TS]

  or you know razor blades or whatever [TS]

  it's there just a button there's no [TS]

  screen just a single button you stick [TS]

  this wherever you stories household [TS]

  objects and when you are running low you [TS]

  hit the button it automatically orders [TS]

  more of that thing whatever you've [TS]

  assigned to order from that brand [TS]

  from amazon and it comes in a couple [TS]

  days so I have 14 paper towels and have [TS]

  a4 paper we don't let me interrupt you [TS]

  right there a genuine genuine question [TS]

  yes if they're like eighty four [TS]

  different flavors of Charmin so to speak [TS]

  do you like specify what one it is that [TS]

  you want yes and you can you can go on [TS]

  the site and you can get with this dash [TS]

  button there's a little green thing it [TS]

  looks like a banner ad and so you missed [TS]

  the first few times but it's not a bit [TS]

  there is little agreement right below [TS]

  the item description nice dash button [TS]

  and it's like you know [TS]

  view what this button can order and you [TS]

  can click on and I'll show you before [TS]

  even buy you can see like make sure that [TS]

  it can order the things you know the [TS]

  version that you use and then you set [TS]

  and when you set it up its kind of free [TS]

  so it's it's a little button thing with [TS]

  no screen and with some kind of you know [TS]

  long-lasting battery and it's a [TS]

  permanent installous I think battery [TS]

  it's a Wi-Fi device so it has to be [TS]

  pretty hefty like lithium something or [TS]

  other battery in there anyway how do you [TS]

  prepare the thing [TS]

  normally these things that you know many [TS]

  of these smart objects they will create [TS]

  their own little ad hoc Wi-Fi network [TS]

  and so you launch the app on your phone [TS]

  you join your phone to the stupid things [TS]

  Wi-Fi network and then it auto config [TS]

  with the app and tell you know the app [TS]

  tells it your real Wi-Fi networks [TS]

  password and then you said you click [TS]

  back over and sucks huge you know clunky [TS]

  process that I hope Apple gives some [TS]

  kind of method of improving with like [TS]

  you know multi-mode Wi-Fi something i'm [TS]

  pretty sure things that exist anyway you [TS]

  know those kind of a temporary ad-hoc [TS]

  Wi-Fi networks don't take over your main [TS]

  Wi-Fi whatever they're called that like [TS]

  you know camera thanks used to anyway [TS]

  please Apple add those things anyway so [TS]

  that the way the the Amazon dash buttons [TS]

  work his you you place the button next [TS]

  to your phone and the phone like emits [TS]

  like static pulses out of the speaker [TS]

  via audio and the dash button has a [TS]

  little microphone it and just like [TS]

  communicates by the static pulses the [TS]

  Wi-Fi information to the dash button and [TS]

  Angela right after a few seconds equals [TS]

  a little weird seconds like alright done [TS]

  just so cool it and all this was for [TS]

  five dollars i know this is all just [TS]

  shameless consumerism to honor the God [TS]

  of amazon and make you buy even more [TS]

  things from amazon but [TS]

  that is still remarkable from a [TS]

  technology perspective that works and [TS]

  costs nothing like that's kind of [TS]

  incredible i want I really looked into [TS]

  recently and I think this is just [TS]

  fascinating [TS]

  somebody has like reverse-engineered how [TS]

  all of this works and there's actually a [TS]

  a node module called no dash button that [TS]

  you can use to have a dash button [TS]

  instead of calling phoning home to [TS]

  amazon it it just tells a node server [TS]

  running on a local network the button [TS]

  has been pressed and so what I was [TS]

  really looking into but I couldn't quite [TS]

  make it work each just the other side of [TS]

  it work [TS]

  I really wanted to buy a dash button and [TS]

  then stick it on like the bedside table [TS]

  and then have that call down to my [TS]

  internet-connected garage door opener my [TS]

  Chamberlain Mike you and if the garage [TS]

  doors open close it so that my bedtime [TS]

  routine would just be to smack this dash [TS]

  button that has nothing to do with [TS]

  amazon anymore and if the garage doors [TS]

  open it will automatically close I could [TS]

  never get it to work but I think it's [TS]

  really cool and fascinating that people [TS]

  took this five-dollar device and are now [TS]

  like hacking it such that it can be used [TS]

  for something entirely different and i [TS]

  just think that's fascinating super cool [TS]

  and is for reasons like this that i [TS]

  really want to start figuring out how [TS]

  the hell raspberry PI's work and what [TS]

  that's all about [TS]

  yeah my question about these buttons is [TS]

  like the reason i would donate can with [TS]

  them was like is this like a joke is [TS]

  like an april fools joke you know like [TS]

  they cannot like last year or the year [TS]

  before whatever just seemed so [TS]

  ridiculous that you're gonna have talked [TS]

  about a you know [TS]

  Alton Brown angering unit ask her you [TS]

  can't have a big shiny red button in [TS]

  your house and all this other paper [TS]

  towels my fear and wide never want to [TS]

  have the thing and it's like I'm the [TS]

  same type person who was always afraid [TS]

  to enable 1-click ordering is I know [TS]

  that I and everyone else in my house [TS]

  would forget when we get that stupid [TS]

  button [TS]

  who knows all we need paper towels and i [TS]

  will click the button but i have no idea [TS]

  if someone who came into the same room [TS]

  and came to the same conclusion an hour [TS]

  ago and now we have two orders of paper [TS]

  towels coming know someone else did you [TS]

  know it turns out they thought of that [TS]

  once you want somebody hits it it [TS]

  doesn't except in order for another one [TS]

  until that one has been delivered right [TS]

  that's pretty good [TS]

  everything I was thinking like it but [TS]

  while rate-limiting [TS]

  the bouncing and here's here's the other [TS]

  secret thing like if it doesn't order [TS]

  until it's delivered but you have small [TS]

  children your house you figure out how [TS]

  these buttons work they wait for a [TS]

  package to be delivered and they go [TS]

  around the house impressive real button [TS]

  like just you know because essentially [TS]

  is applying it is allowing anyone with [TS]

  physical access to your home to spend [TS]

  your money [TS]

  yeah but it's not like ordering an ipod [TS]

  like it's you know what happens pretty [TS]

  cheap it's a bad example and you just [TS]

  wait for the ipod [TS]

  wait for the ipod [TS]

  you got the iphone button just let me [TS]

  just put it we'll put in in your house [TS]

  and groupers houses the keynotes over [TS]

  you slam your fist on the button and [TS]

  then there's one that's the new method [TS]

  rolling as you go visit somebody doesn't [TS]

  like when they're when they're like you [TS]

  know in the other room you go pushing [TS]

  all the buttons to order all the paper [TS]

  towels and so this is these dash buttons [TS]

  these are entirely independent of the [TS]

  echo other than the fact they're all [TS]

  made by amazon hook up your amazon [TS]

  account right yeah I was just really [TS]

  decide that you know I'm now like giving [TS]

  amazon the benefit of the doubt and [TS]

  trying some of the stuff that they're [TS]

  doing that's all crazy and after the [TS]

  fire phone and after some of the really [TS]

  crappy fire tablets it's easy to write [TS]

  off amazon's hardware efforts but [TS]

  they're getting better and they're kind [TS]

  of getting remarkably better at some [TS]

  things and I I think writing them off [TS]

  completely is not wise because you know [TS]

  they are going to keep making a lot of [TS]

  duds I'm sure but there but not [TS]

  everything they make it up and some of [TS]

  them exactly pretty cool anyway so yeah [TS]

  so I guess I have some some dunkin Wemo [TS]

  switch to outlets that amusing to switch [TS]

  some lamps [TS]

  yeah can you explain that to me because [TS]

  I understood that you were trying to [TS]

  make it so you could say words into the [TS]

  air and cause lights to go on yet i [TS]

  don't know anything that connects those [TS]

  things other than the Amazon echo is [TS]

  listening to you and then presumably [TS]

  what happens after that the amazon i [TS]

  hears you and what does it do what does [TS]

  it communicate with is this like an open [TS]

  standard layout amazon products don't [TS]

  understand this world [TS]

  honestly I don't know that much about it [TS]

  I I haven't looked that much into it you [TS]

  know you go and i was on site that tells [TS]

  you like here's the all the things that [TS]

  work with the echo some of the things [TS]

  require like a smart devices hub some of [TS]

  them don't have been only getting the [TS]

  ones that don't so far because why not [TS]

  about a couple of mos switched outlets [TS]

  because I there the better way to do [TS]

  lighting is if you can swing it to use [TS]

  Wi-Fi light bulbs like life xor philips [TS]

  hue that kind of thing I haven't used [TS]

  any of those yet because the lifx bulbs [TS]

  are too large to fit into the lamps in [TS]

  question and the philips hue bulbs are [TS]

  not bright enough and i like nice bright [TS]

  bulbs and even leds always to get the [TS]

  ones that are like 200 watt equivalent [TS]

  rather than the most the more common [TS]

  ones are more like a 60 watt equivalent [TS]

  so they're just not right now anyway so [TS]

  the way i do this is I keep my fancy [TS]

  bulbs and I guess which the outlets [TS]

  philanthropist [TS]

  two again I don't know any other system [TS]

  works but the way belkin's Wemo thing [TS]

  works is all just local Wi-Fi and [TS]

  there's probably a way to come to a web [TS]

  service I don't really care [TS]

  there is but right now doing a local [TS]

  Wi-Fi only so you use their apt to like [TS]

  configure the things using the stupid [TS]

  like join the Wi-Fi network thing but [TS]

  then once configured the echo to talk to [TS]

  it directly so you know the echo just [TS]

  had support for whatever local protocol [TS]

  that uses over the local Wi-Fi network [TS]

  and then you you go to the alexa up to [TS]

  configure the echo it shows all your [TS]

  compatible devices and you can create [TS]

  groups so you can see like to turn off [TS]

  all lamps and it will and it will end it [TS]

  just says okay and turn them all off and [TS]

  that's it sorry for anybody whose life [TS]

  is turned off [TS]

  it's really cool like it get it was [TS]

  really cool about it is that it's fast [TS]

  enough and it works enough of the time [TS]

  that it's actually comedian so part of [TS]

  my nightly routine use your cell your [TS]

  garage like trying to like trying to [TS]

  eliminate steps for nightly routine part [TS]

  of my daily routine is you know we which [TS]

  are watching TV and I whatever so I go [TS]

  around locking all the doors turning off [TS]

  all the lights taking the taking hops [TS]

  out we know one last time in the [TS]

  backyard and more lights go on and off [TS]

  going off and coming Lok Lak any step i [TS]

  can remove from that process will save [TS]

  me like 15 seconds a day and yet it's [TS]

  stupid to be talking about 15 seconds a [TS]

  day and you know this is obviously a [TS]

  position of like first-world privilege [TS]

  here but that's convenient and when [TS]

  everything is so cheap it its it's [TS]

  actually kind of compelling I've [TS]

  effectively cut 30 seconds out of my [TS]

  nightly routine just by automated my [TS]

  switches and being able to tell the echo [TS]

  turn everything off wants the Amazon [TS]

  echo tell my children eight thousand [TS]

  times to brush to think that their [TS]

  pajamas on because i'm able to stay at [TS]

  amazon echo do the bed down routine an [TS]

  Amazon echo will say you guys have your [TS]

  amazon yet have you brush your teeth [TS]

  every Rush do you have your amazon and [TS]

  you find them in their room an hour [TS]

  later playing with Lego without their [TS]

  pajamas on have you put your pajamas on [TS]

  and brush teeth that's the service I [TS]

  need you could probably get up with you [TS]

  know I have tea tea or something [TS]

  I'm i bet you that there's something [TS]

  like I mean the thing is like it and [TS]

  this is this is why I I really been [TS]

  joined the echo and why I I do worry for [TS]

  apples presence or lack thereof in this [TS]

  market in order to make this market [TS]

  succeed [TS]

  you know in order to get what makes the [TS]

  echo so good is a combination of having [TS]

  what seems to be a pretty awesome solid [TS]

  big data web service behind it which is [TS]

  not something apples good at you know [TS]

  Apple can do things like you know [TS]

  keeping notifications running and [TS]

  running when it comes to the kind of web [TS]

  service that uses big data and AI type [TS]

  stuff Apple is not as competitive as [TS]

  other entrance in the market and and it [TS]

  seems it maybe that will change over [TS]

  time but they're just not there and [TS]

  they've been not there for so long after [TS]

  be after began to matter that it does [TS]

  seem like they're not capable of it or [TS]

  at least don't prioritize it you know it [TS]

  seems like this is the kind of problem [TS]

  that other companies Google Facebook [TS]

  Amazon just do big data services better [TS]

  than apple does and what also makes it [TS]

  so powerful is all this integration with [TS]

  their party stuff and so Apple has home [TS]

  kit but home kit is is a much less [TS]

  successful program i think then then [TS]

  what it needs to be [TS]

  where's the echo doesn't really care [TS]

  like the echo is kind of all-inclusive [TS]

  it'll work with everything that we [TS]

  talked briefly about this on unconnected [TS]

  this weekend relay they were they were [TS]

  they were saying that there's some kind [TS]

  of like hardware requirement for home [TS]

  kit devices and then the belkin kind of [TS]

  balking at it [TS]

  amazon doesn't really care i worked with [TS]

  everybody and like Siri launch in twenty [TS]

  eleven it is 2016 there is still no [TS]

  sirree API there is no way for third [TS]

  parties to integrate with Siri at all [TS]

  the echo comes out like not that long [TS]

  ago what like year ago last June [TS]

  something's on almost a year ago it is [TS]

  already full of third-party integrations [TS]

  there's an API for a lot of what it can [TS]

  do not everything there's still no music [TS]

  API looks at which means i can make [TS]

  overcast for it yet but I'm hoping there [TS]

  will be soon so that it has but it has [TS]

  tons of integration with all these [TS]

  third-party things anybody can go and [TS]

  make a speech response API to it and it [TS]

  integrates with all this different [TS]

  hardware from all these different [TS]

  vendors amazon I feel like they're in a [TS]

  better position that Apple is to to [TS]

  really take over this kind of thing [TS]

  because this is so dependent on both the [TS]

  big data web service and also tons of [TS]

  third-party integration [TS]

  yeah apple had the foresight to you know [TS]

  to purchase the you know the sea [TS]

  research project company or whatever [TS]

  they were like the day that they [TS]

  understood very early on that something [TS]

  like this could add value to their [TS]

  products and you know my friend when [TS]

  they bought them but obviously was [TS]

  before it was actually released publicly [TS]

  released to the public with the [TS]

  exception of google like they don't know [TS]

  if they were in the lead next Google but [TS]

  they were at the very least seemingly [TS]

  neck-and-neck with google in terms of we [TS]

  recognize this is going to be important [TS]

  thing for the future and maybe your [TS]

  thing is kind of crappy when it launches [TS]

  series certainly was [TS]

  but at least you know at least we're not [TS]

  ignoring this market like in fact we're [TS]

  out ahead of a lot of our competitors [TS]

  but like Marco set like and then what [TS]

  happened to be like the mac pro all over [TS]

  again [TS]

  well we'll make Siri better and Cirie [TS]

  certainly has gotten better but there's [TS]

  no reason Apple couldn't have done [TS]

  something like Amazon echo years and [TS]

  years ago because they had like there [TS]

  and google has been expanding google now [TS]

  and did you know to make it much more [TS]

  sophisticated and complicated in Syria [TS]

  and we even have like just random apps [TS]

  like this third-party hound application [TS]

  that Merlin was raving about a little [TS]

  while ago like like lots of other [TS]

  companies are you know it's it's not [TS]

  early days anymore everyone's like Oh [TS]

  some kind of intelligent agency you can [TS]

  talk is basically like speed recognition [TS]

  has as kind of cross de vaguely good [TS]

  enough barrier and an understanding of [TS]

  speech and breaking it down into meaning [TS]

  and figure out what you mean not just [TS]

  like translate into text doing a Google [TS]

  search or whatever you know that's [TS]

  getting more sophisticated and it just [TS]

  takes a little bit more stuff to put it [TS]

  together in two ways that allow like the [TS]

  community essentially community of like [TS]

  nerds and hackers to come up with more [TS]

  uses this things like that was like oh [TS]

  and also definitely seems like much more [TS]

  you know nerd you know hacker friendly [TS]

  if someone who wants to just toy with it [TS]

  and figure out what kind of cool things [TS]

  to do with an animal lecture whatever [TS]

  build whatever on you want is a pretty [TS]

  open protocol you can reverse-engineer [TS]

  it like just go down as they don't know [TS]

  like that you know their approaches like [TS]

  this new stuff and see what sticks right [TS]

  Apple's just totally absence marketing [TS]

  use that makes sense because apple [TS]

  doesn't make sort of like Tinker [TS]

  products for people who just want to [TS]

  hack on things and you know I've ever [TS]

  want to have this product would be like [TS]

  no no [TS]

  it has to be beautiful and elegant and [TS]

  integrated in blood with the end result [TS]

  is they just aren't in the market doll [TS]

  or know what you know they do home kit [TS]

  and said we have a strict requirements [TS]

  because you're your products must meet [TS]

  the stringent standards that we have [TS]

  apple and blah blah in the meantime [TS]

  amazon just like running off with it and [TS]

  they're gonna wake up one day and say [TS]

  you know we we could have had [TS]

  substantial chunk of that market and we [TS]

  just we just waited too long for for for [TS]

  perfection and didn't you know to start [TS]

  releasing and iterating again that's not [TS]

  the Apple way to do it but I feel like [TS]

  in many other Syria was was like that it [TS]

  was like series not gonna be perfect [TS]

  initially but it's important for us to [TS]

  get this out there because we feel like [TS]

  in the future you telling your phone to [TS]

  do something is a feature that we need [TS]

  to happen they were right about that [TS]

  every every cell phone you by now has [TS]

  some feature where you can speak to it [TS]

  and have it do something either but you [TS]

  while you're driving to tell it to play [TS]

  a song or if you're just lazy and don't [TS]

  want to go find an icon and tap [TS]

  something just to run a search for [TS]

  whatever they all have that an apple [TS]

  recognize that not saying they have to [TS]

  be in the Amazon echo market but I'm [TS]

  just saying like vr we also Mapple [TS]

  secretly doing things behind the scenes [TS]

  i hope they don't stay secret for too [TS]

  long either [TS]

  if BR turns out not to be a bust apple [TS]

  doesn't want to just be sitting there [TS]

  waiting for their perfect entry in that [TS]

  market either and I think like the watch [TS]

  as much as we've all talked about it and [TS]

  had complaints about it i think it was [TS]

  important for Apple to do a watch even [TS]

  if the watch they did has problems [TS]

  rather than saying no we're not entirely [TS]

  sure we figure out every aspect of what [TS]

  makes a watch good like the only way [TS]

  you're going to figure out is to make a [TS]

  product right there that's that's in you [TS]

  can't you can't hold back from it and [TS]

  how they're making a freaking car [TS]

  surely the bacon amazon echo type [TS]

  competitor and I think they could do a [TS]

  reasonably good job for it if only [TS]

  because it would force them like Morgan [TS]

  was saying force them to work on their [TS]

  back end whereas Cirie has like the hell [TS]

  those presentations like look we're [TS]

  using these open source you know data [TS]

  processing backends for Syria and we're [TS]

  all impressed by that we're talking at [TS]

  conferences like Siri force them to do [TS]

  that because it wasn't simple enough to [TS]

  use whatever they were using before was [TS]

  complicated [TS]

  was it make those someone just wrote an [TS]

  entire room you having a product like [TS]

  Siri forces them to get better that [TS]

  stuff having a product like Amazon echo [TS]

  would also force them to get better this [TS]

  type of thing as home kit should be [TS]

  forcing them to as well but if they're [TS]

  if they're going into the same situation [TS]

  where there [TS]

  making you know very onerous demands of [TS]

  the third parties and the result is a [TS]

  few third-party products they're you [TS]

  know they're they're not they're not [TS]

  winning that battle so it's kind of it's [TS]

  kind of disappointing and with amazon [TS]

  their challenge is always going to be [TS]

  easy to do the beginning part which is [TS]

  very open and will try to things like [TS]

  those people go in [TS]

  how do you develop I've been waiting [TS]

  person I don't know if enough people who [TS]

  have an echo that I'm like I'm kind of [TS]

  interested in that I'd like to try but i [TS]

  would like to wait for the echo to come [TS]

  out the the one that is nicer and [TS]

  smaller and faster and more reliable and [TS]

  has more features i know they came out [TS]

  with a little tiny one that doesn't have [TS]

  the speakers and stuff like that but I [TS]

  want like the full-fledged echo version [TS]

  2 if Amazon doesn't make an echo version [TS]

  2 for 3 years I will have you know they [TS]

  will be again pulling a mac pro it's [TS]

  like you were right there what why did [TS]

  you stop [TS]

  I don't think they will I think they [TS]

  will continue to iterate just look at [TS]

  how many freaking candles I found out [TS]

  with there's about to be another one [TS]

  they're hyping up next week I I [TS]

  volcanoes to mail you and they're having [TS]

  up next we're gonna we're gonna make [TS]

  another one that's that's even thinner [TS]

  awesome [TS]

  yeah and we have no idea how many [TS]

  candles they have ever sold because they [TS]

  never put numbers on their graphs but [TS]

  they continue to plug away at that so I [TS]

  fully believe that Amazon will continue [TS]

  to plug away the echo if only because it [TS]

  just has a natural synergy of like make [TS]

  it easier for people to give us money [TS]

  alright thumbs up this is a good product [TS]

  for amazon to make especially since the [TS]

  harbor across don't seem that big it's [TS]

  like it's speaker with Wi-Fi and a whole [TS]

  bunch of microphones and a little bit of [TS]

  software don't make that up the first [TS]

  year alone people with a people [TS]

  accidentally ordering things by saying a [TS]

  alexa by paper towels or whatever your [TS]

  kids are saying when you're not in the [TS]

  room anyway I'm enjoying this thing it's [TS]

  not perfect [TS]

  there's lots of things about it that are [TS]

  that are not perfect but overall it's [TS]

  really cool and I would say if you're on [TS]

  the fence if you if you've been tempted [TS]

  by the echo if you're on the fence just [TS]

  get it just order it now like you won't [TS]

  regret if you if you're already like [TS]

  taking you might enjoy you probably will [TS]

  enjoy it and you should just try it [TS]

  because it really is quite good what is [TS]

  adam said it like so he gets very mad [TS]

  that she doesn't recognize him because [TS]

  he doesn't unsee it well enough that [TS]

  yeah basically he asked her to define [TS]

  words multiply numbers play music [TS]

  convert units of measurement [TS]

  cooking so many things you can do [TS]

  setting timers by voice while cooking is [TS]

  so useful like that's it always [TS]

  urbanites with the Apple watch that with [TS]

  it was so slow and somewhat unreliable [TS]

  to do that because when that works it's [TS]

  so useful it doesn't work enough with [TS]

  the apple stuff but it works all the [TS]

  time with the amazon thing its are you [TS]

  have to push a button like activate Siri [TS]

  if you don't have a Syrian able to [TS]

  basically have to take your dirty you [TS]

  know cooking fingers and touch some iOS [TS]

  device and then have a good loop and [TS]

  figure out do i talk before the blooper [TS]

  does it not matter is not the bloom and [TS]

  then you say set a timer for five [TS]

  minutes and then you wait and then you [TS]

  see and sometimes misunderstands you it [TS]

  seems to me from all the people i know [TS]

  how that goes that you can basically [TS]

  just yell into the air with a reasonable [TS]

  expectation that it's going to get you [TS]

  and if it doesn't yell it again and [TS]

  you're not waking whatever waiting [TS]

  verbal open the echoes plugs in right [TS]

  it's not the battery power [TS]

  yeah that they have won this battery [TS]

  power but it did won the battle the ones [TS]

  battery-powered is is the tap and that [TS]

  one doesn't listen all the time to get [TS]

  to push it to listen [TS]

  yeah that's not good so if you want to [TS]

  be listening all the time you need to [TS]

  plug it is that is that the one thing [TS]

  that I thought that the one that I was [TS]

  thinking of is is like is a very short [TS]

  cylinder it doesn't have it doesn't [TS]

  double is basically a bluetooth speaker [TS]

  that's the dot but great names i'm at [TS]

  the dot does also plug in and always [TS]

  always listening [TS]

  the dot is basically just like the big [TS]

  echo but without the big speaker so it [TS]

  sounds substantially worse if you play [TS]

  music through it and the big echo like [TS]

  as as a speaker is also the bluetooth [TS]

  speaker as a speaker it is merely decent [TS]

  it is not an amazing speaker like it [TS]

  like I have a sonos play one right next [TS]

  to it and the play one is a way better [TS]

  speaker by by a mile [TS]

  you know for like music quality volume [TS]

  tone the universe the sonos system has [TS]

  way better speakers but the Amazon echo [TS]

  is really convenient and that often wins [TS]

  cool our final sponsor tonight is [TS]

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  expenses you know in real life and it [TS]

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  them etc so you can just you know take [TS]

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  your life [TS]

  you can of course also enter things but [TS]

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  details just like a lot of popular [TS]

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  first can do that too and you can help [TS]

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  first was also offers for your invoices [TS]

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  end up getting paid a lot faster [TS]

  in fact they even have a cool thing that [TS]

  I didn't really broaden the appeal here [TS]

  you can even if you if you do something [TS]

  in person if you're little you're like [TS]

  an electrician you go to somebody's [TS]

  house you perform a job they have a [TS]

  credit card reader that you can use with [TS]

  your phone in person that integrates [TS]

  completely with their system with their [TS]

  invoicing and everything is you can [TS]

  actually accept payments in person with [TS]

  your fresh books invoices they also have [TS]

  overdue payment reminders so if you know [TS]

  people let's say people take long term [TS]

  paper invoices which is often the case [TS]

  in the invoicing world they were they [TS]

  can automatically help send kind of [TS]

  robotic reminded reminders that you [TS]

  don't really have to have these these [TS]

  awkward conversations and keep bugging [TS]

  people it does it on your behalf and you [TS]

  can customize what the message says and [TS]

  when they're sent and everything it's [TS]

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  to enter accidental text podcast and how [TS]

  did you hear about us section once again [TS]

  fresh / 8 [TS]

  ap thanks a lot of fresh books trying to [TS]

  think about why Apple Bible is the way [TS]

  it is about third-party integrations if [TS]

  they it's not as if Apple's is all we [TS]

  have to do everything myself almost [TS]

  everything Apple does that has a [TS]

  reasonable place for third parties to be [TS]

  part of it [TS]

  there is a place for it to do it like [TS]

  there-there api's they make a B is for [TS]

  third parties to write software for [TS]

  their platforms they have programs for [TS]

  hardware vendors to make accessories for [TS]

  all their various hardware devices they [TS]

  have especially for hardware they have [TS]

  compliance programs you have to fulfill [TS]

  these requirements in terms of size and [TS]

  voltage and reliability and you know [TS]

  whatever like all sensible things [TS]

  especially in the hardware around [TS]

  there's no shortage of accessories for [TS]

  iOS devices you can buy even for the [TS]

  watches you can buy watchbands you can [TS]

  buy cases for your iOS devices you can [TS]

  buy docs for them [TS]

  keyboards I gave everything that apple [TS]

  sells for its devices there's tons of [TS]

  choices for third parties so it seems [TS]

  like they know how to foster at an open [TS]

  ecosystem of third parties selling [TS]

  things for their products and software [TS]

  application the application front there [TS]

  they're OK at that like you know we [TS]

  talked about the app store and the [TS]

  problems that might have but it's not as [TS]

  if people have the impression that if [TS]

  you buy an Apple product you're stuck [TS]

  with apple software they know lots of [TS]

  ppl makes offer especially for iOS [TS]

  devices and most of those people are not [TS]

  Apple that make them and yet for things [TS]

  like this where they're connecting like [TS]

  to web services or they're sending you [TS]

  to someone else's store or they're [TS]

  integrating with someone else's line of [TS]

  products for your home [TS]

  that seems to be like apples kryptonite [TS]

  like anything having to do with the web [TS]

  certainly anything having to do with [TS]

  money like giving other people money or [TS]

  becoming their customer those seems to [TS]

  be areas that Apple is not willing to [TS]

  sort of open the doors and make [TS]

  connections there precisely the area [TS]

  that you would want anything having to [TS]

  do with home automation or two [TS]

  connectors imagine if apple sold [TS]

  something like this but you couldn't use [TS]

  it to buy things from Amazon Apple is [TS]

  not a retailer physical goods other than [TS]

  on products like it's not it's not [TS]

  technically a competitor to amazon in [TS]

  this way but can you imagine Apple [TS]

  selling products and say oh and had [TS]

  doing the keynote demo and say look how [TS]

  easy it is for me to order new paper [TS]

  towels because they don't care about [TS]

  ordering paper towels and their [TS]

  customers have to order paper towels but [TS]

  they're not going to endorse amazon [TS]

  unless they can extract some money or [TS]

  some deal from amazon or whatever but [TS]

  that would be a perfect third-party [TS]

  integration if they made a product like [TS]

  this and made an open API show your [TS]

  third party would make an integration [TS]

  for their favorite brand of you know [TS]

  Wi-Fi enabled light bulbs or their [TS]

  favorite retailer or a raspberry pi [TS]

  thing or integration with the ring [TS]

  doorbell that we just talked about or [TS]

  whatever those are the things that you [TS]

  have to do if you're going to try to [TS]

  break open this market and be like this [TS]

  or de facto central speaking into the [TS]

  air in the middle of my house hub for [TS]

  home automation and it just seems like [TS]

  Apple and even companies like Nestor [TS]

  stole the idea like no we're going on [TS]

  the whole freaking house and we're going [TS]

  to totally control hardware vendors and [TS]

  they're going to comply to our [TS]

  specifications and in the meantime [TS]

  amazon using the old pc strategy of just [TS]

  working fully open door to help ever the [TS]

  hell you want and we'll just look at it [TS]

  a couple years later and see what worked [TS]

  so far is the only thing that has that [TS]

  any measure of success even though it's [TS]

  a very small measure success just among [TS]

  nerds are willing to pay a hundred [TS]

  eighty bucks to have a wear black [TS]

  cylinder of the house that they can ask [TS]

  how to spell words [TS]

  Apple has always had this part of its [TS]

  like corporate personality and reflected [TS]

  by originally by Steve and and buy you [TS]

  know a lot of people who are still there [TS]

  i think and who are still making [TS]

  important decisions that they've always [TS]

  had this this these parts of their [TS]

  personality where sometimes a little bit [TS]

  too much greed shows and sometimes a [TS]

  little bit too to like control freaky [TS]

  shows if that makes sense and that that [TS]

  often holds these things back [TS]

  so for instance the thirty percent [TS]

  in-app purchase rule on iOS apps one of [TS]

  the reasons why you can't buy amazon [TS]

  books and the kindle app for I for iOS [TS]

  is this rule that like apple won't let [TS]

  amazon selling directly without using a [TS]

  purchase and if using our purchase apple [TS]

  takes thirty percent [TS]

  and that is a very very high commission [TS]

  to take on sales that you're kind of not [TS]

  much of a part of but they do it and it [TS]

  works and it's only in town and you know [TS]

  if you want to be this platform which [TS]

  really matters a lot [TS]

  you basically have to play by those [TS]

  rules or avoid them like Amazon doesn't [TS]

  just don't sell anything there and that [TS]

  kind of attitude you know it goes way [TS]

  beyond that rule you know that kind of [TS]

  attitude also expensive things like 60 [TS]

  devices the price hike in the ipad cases [TS]

  that you know Apple has some greed there [TS]

  and is that you know depending on what [TS]

  you know like our discussion earlier [TS]

  about like whether you consider that you [TS]

  know offensive or not or whether it's [TS]

  just business but they they do [TS]

  oftentimes prioritize profitability of [TS]

  things over you know making everyone [TS]

  else happy and that is often good [TS]

  business so i can't really fault them [TS]

  for that but it does hold back certain [TS]

  kinds of advancements from from the [TS]

  products or they're going for an ideal [TS]

  like sometimes they have a vision in [TS]

  their mind of how it's going to look and [TS]

  third parties will describe that vision [TS]

  with the crap that they had where and so [TS]

  that's the other side of it is like is [TS]

  the controlling part of it where Apple's [TS]

  very opinionated in a lot of ways and [TS]

  and very controlling it like so for [TS]

  instance one of the more recent dust-ups [TS]

  around around apples decision making was [TS]

  in the early days of 9.3 they stopped [TS]

  letting the Apple pencil navigate the [TS]

  entire ipad interface so the applicants [TS]

  that came out in November whatever with [TS]

  the ipad pro it could navigate the whole [TS]

  interface for you know its first few [TS]

  months and then in the early betas of [TS]

  nine point whatever 9.3 they removed the [TS]

  ability and it was from you know the the [TS]

  official PR statement was was kind of [TS]

  BSE the what we've heard from from from [TS]

  people who are better informed of the [TS]

  matter is that this is actually an [TS]

  intentional decision because it was not [TS]

  being used the way they thought it [TS]

  should be used they didn't want to be [TS]

  used to navigate the interface they [TS]

  wanted to only be used for like artistic [TS]

  purposes or or you know drawing or [TS]

  whatever it was being it was being used [TS]

  in a way that Apple didn't foresee and [TS]

  didn't think was proper but wasn't [TS]

  really hurting anything and apple almost [TS]

  remove that ability and it was only i [TS]

  think only by a decent amount of public [TS]

  shaming and now cry over this during the [TS]

  beta period that reverse their decision [TS]

  they were being a little too [TS]

  overreaching in their control you know [TS]

  that their desire for control [TS]

  I don't think so true though because [TS]

  there was no obvious reason for them to [TS]

  get rid of it today but what if [TS]

  something's coming in the future that [TS]

  that would conflict with this the the [TS]

  pencil is equivalent to your finger [TS]

  approach that Mike and gray love so much [TS]

  you know it it certainly seems to me [TS]

  like they should have some sort of happy [TS]

  medium like there should be a switch [TS]

  forward or something like that but i [TS]

  think it's it's a little bit it's a [TS]

  little bit bold us to assume they're [TS]

  doing it just to be jerks there they [TS]

  very well could be that they're doing it [TS]

  to set themselves up for something in [TS]

  the future [TS]

  well it might not even you know I don't [TS]

  want to say that that they're being [TS]

  jerks necessarily it's that they're [TS]

  being controlling [TS]

  you know we see a lot of this with a [TS]

  preview to and whenever there's like a [TS]

  whenever there's an app review [TS]

  controversy a lot of times it's because [TS]

  apple doesn't want us to do things a [TS]

  certain way or you know like like with [TS]

  like what happened with the disaster of [TS]

  like very projections around today [TS]

  widgets with calculators and draft and [TS]

  everything else we're like p calc it in [TS]

  this in interview and it's like no well [TS]

  you can't have buttons there could we [TS]

  don't want people to do calculations or [TS]

  to do work in today viewers like okay [TS]

  that's kind of weird and maybe there [TS]

  might have been a technical reason for [TS]

  that but it seemed from what they from [TS]

  Apple statements to the various [TS]

  developers whoever those things that [TS]

  didn't seem like it was a technical [TS]

  limitations seemed like it was just like [TS]

  an ideological thing we know we this is [TS]

  not right they should be using your app [TS]

  for this all this is just to say like [TS]

  there are these these areas in the [TS]

  company that still show these these [TS]

  negative personality traits that i think [TS]

  do hold them back in some ways and [TS]

  sometimes it's the right move but a lot [TS]

  of times it's not sometimes leads to [TS]

  expect to better products but a lot of [TS]

  times it doesn't [TS]

  I brought the ipod and everything [TS]

  because I feel like they do this so well [TS]

  and so many areas like they strike the [TS]

  right balance in terms of you know but [TS]

  the reason we buy their products is [TS]

  there opinionated and we like their [TS]

  opinion if you don't like their opinion [TS]

  by different products right but if you [TS]

  like they're paying you like the fact [TS]

  that you know designed as [TS]

  you know again especially in the [TS]

  hardware carefully designed for the [TS]

  particular look and feel and the [TS]

  features they put in them and just you [TS]

  know the whole the iPhone itself like [TS]

  one is that one is what is the iphone is [TS]

  when do we make a touchscreen that Apple [TS]

  feel like it's good enough for the [TS]

  aspects of like the whole you know that [TS]

  that's how you end up with something [TS]

  like the iphone that you have tastes and [TS]

  opinions and you are controlling about [TS]

  it and you slowly open it up but it if i [TS]

  look at the market of iOS devices [TS]

  especially on the hardware side they're [TS]

  striking such a good balance in terms of [TS]

  having the products they want to have [TS]

  selling accessories that they want to [TS]

  sell but also having this huge ecosystem [TS]

  of accessories from other people every [TS]

  kind of case you could possibly imagine [TS]

  including ones that Apple surely thanks [TS]

  are ugly but they're not forbidding [TS]

  those to be made or forbidding and [TS]

  integration we're not going to let our [TS]

  iphone be docked into this you know [TS]

  docking devices we think it's gross or [TS]

  we don't want it but we don't want you [TS]

  to be able to plug this thing in with [TS]

  the USB cable and control this other [TS]

  things like for the most part within the [TS]

  constraints of their programs they have [TS]

  a hands-off type of attitude you want to [TS]

  make a weird keyboard case that falls [TS]

  onto your iPad six years before we come [TS]

  out with a hardware keyboard for our [TS]

  ipads it's not bluetooth fine we're not [TS]

  gonna be like oh we don't we want to [TS]

  forbid that because we haven't decided [TS]

  whether we're going to do a a keyboard [TS]

  with thing even styluses now we we don't [TS]

  want you to we don't give you a maid for [TS]

  you know iOS stamp of approval on any [TS]

  stylist because we don't want to have a [TS]

  stylist like four years you had this [TS]

  little fake finger Silas's there was a [TS]

  million of them right [TS]

  Apple's willing to just let that go and [TS]

  I think that was to an important thing [TS]

  because it showed them like especially [TS]

  if they selling in their stores boy [TS]

  surprising number of people buy these [TS]

  super terrible you know stylist things [TS]

  that pretend to be fingers maybe there's [TS]

  something to this style thing after all [TS]

  and eventually they can put their own [TS]

  solution which of course didn't have to [TS]

  emulate a finger and was much much [TS]

  better and they did a really good job [TS]

  but that I feel like that falls out of [TS]

  the having a big open market and it's [TS]

  just certain kinds of products they have [TS]

  a blind spot about that with even you [TS]

  can even say Apple TV has that for so [TS]

  many years not having apps on it which [TS]

  just seems crazy because they had [TS]

  learned how important apps are and even [TS]

  now having the apps and having to be [TS]

  limited in all sorts of ways because [TS]

  Apple has an idea of what the TV app [TS]

  should be like and they're necessarily [TS]

  fencing off whole range of possibilities [TS]

  even going [TS]

  down to you know my own particular pet [TS]

  peeves about 24 hurts output or whatever [TS]

  like that's a whole class of [TS]

  applications that could flourish or not [TS]

  on the appletv but because Apple has [TS]

  narrowly defined you you know you get [TS]

  200 megs you download stuff on demand [TS]

  you can have games but you have to [TS]

  support the remote just like they're [TS]

  just a fenced-in so narrowly they're not [TS]

  allowing that ecosystem to expand in the [TS]

  ways that some of their other ecosystems [TS]

  have been allowed to expand its and I [TS]

  think it's just it's just not the right [TS]

  balance like I think that's what we put [TS]

  apples always looking for and what I'm [TS]

  what grapple to do is not to be [TS]

  completely open not to become really [TS]

  close to find the right balance for each [TS]

  product line and it's and the way we see [TS]

  one Apple hasn't found the right [TS]

  balances competitors competitors show us [TS]

  because they say if Apple's dropping the [TS]

  ball here then we can do better and show [TS]

  you something and you look at it after [TS]

  the back near boy apple had all the [TS]

  pieces that all the technology and they [TS]

  just didn't they just didn't do it or [TS]

  they were their own worst enemy and I [TS]

  see that you have the most for every [TS]

  product that Apple does anything to do [TS]

  is sort of the open web and web services [TS]

  not that Apple is against the open web [TS]

  services but it just seems to be a big [TS]

  blind spot for them they don't realize [TS]

  the inherent power in that an Amazon ago [TS]

  I think it's the is the most recent and [TS]

  most glaring example [TS]

  alright thanks 143 sponsors this week [TS]

  betterment ring and fresh books and [TS]

  we'll see you next week [TS]

  now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

  mean to [TS]

  because it was accidental death was [TS]

  accidental [TS]

  John didn't [TS]

  any research Marco and Casey would like [TS]

  because it was accidental was accidental [TS]

  and you can find show know today d p dot [TS]

  and if twitter follow them [TS]

  yes byl ISS so that's Casey list and a [TS]

  co-pay rm20 Marco Arment and our AC [TS]

  Syracuse is [TS]

  what [TS]

  so Tesla came out with the new car which [TS]

  means your model asses effectively old [TS]

  and busted [TS]

  yep totally absolutely no it isn't big [TS]

  as his car is still better than they did [TS]

  pretty good car in so many ways it's [TS]

  better [TS]

  mm so Tesla came out or debuted with the [TS]

  the model 3 [TS]

  I like the emphasis on the master plan [TS]

  and the presentation like oh my so many [TS]

  years ago I had this master plan about [TS]

  what we're going to do if you're making [TS]

  a master plan maybe that's the time to [TS]

  come up with like a naming scheme for [TS]

  cars that's simple like someone like you [TS]

  only got three cars can be model 12 and [TS]

  three male B&C you know 468 like there [TS]

  are many possibilities that you could [TS]

  you draw from whatever name them after [TS]

  your favorite cities or whatever but i [TS]

  don't think anyone he drawing of a [TS]

  master plan would be like roadster s x + [TS]

  3 like it in your first outing [TS]

  that's ball drop anyway but we don't [TS]

  care about the name right so for those [TS]

  who are not aware this is there they're [TS]

  cheaper sedan their kind of mass-market [TS]

  car i did watch the presentation which [TS]

  was a link in the show notes a seal on [TS]

  it said hey the Roadster was to kind of [TS]

  get really really really rich people to [TS]

  spend money on something stupid and then [TS]

  that would let us bootstrap the S which [TS]

  would let well-to-do people spend money [TS]

  on something that was less stupid which [TS]

  in turn will let us do what we really [TS]

  want to do which is the mass market [TS]

  model 3 and they open pre-orders for the [TS]

  model 3 the day of the announcement but [TS]

  but i think really really early in the [TS]

  morning in whatever your local time was [TS]

  and by the time of the announcement they [TS]

  had over a hundred thousand pre-orders [TS]

  is that right [TS]

  a hundred and ten i think yeah something [TS]

  like that and so the pre-orders you have [TS]

  to put a thousand dollars down but it is [TS]

  refundable so that means a hundred [TS]

  thousand people had given Tesla a [TS]

  thousand dollars apiece and I think [TS]

  they're up to like a quarter million [TS]

  from like that and what's interesting is [TS]

  you know the first half of those people [TS]

  did it sight unseen [TS]

  they knew nothing about the model three [TS]

  other than that it was going to cost me [TS]

  around 40 grand and it should have [TS]

  around the same range model s give or [TS]

  take and then they did the the reveal [TS]

  which it was clear that Apple employees [TS]

  spend a lot of time practicing their [TS]

  presentations not only those in the [TS]

  keynote but those are like dub but [TS]

  because man Elon Musk was not built for [TS]

  this sort of presentation and that's [TS]

  okay i mean but it could use some [TS]

  rehearsal [TS]

  it seemed like you didn't rehearse it [TS]

  once right but the presentation [TS]

  nevertheless was impressive and the [TS]

  model 3 on the whole I like it I think [TS]

  aesthetically it's got some a little bit [TS]

  of problems on the outside I think John [TS]

  takes more issue with the outside than I [TS]

  do on the inside i have major issues but [TS]

  a 40,000 dollar-plus car ish that has [TS]

  200 miles plus ish of range [TS]

  that's pretty damn appealing and so been [TS]

  supposedly they're going to ship the end [TS]

  of next year like this is sounding [TS]

  pretty good i'm definitely interested [TS]

  I wouldn't call this mass marketed I [TS]

  understand the progression like you go [TS]

  from a hundred-thousand-dollar [TS]

  impractical car 270 ready [TS]

  thousand-dollar very practical car to [TS]

  35,000 dollar still pretty practical car [TS]

  like broken no mass market is 25 k where [TS]

  you it's not not that they're doing [TS]

  everything I can like they the batteries [TS]

  cost a lot of money right so they're [TS]

  building a big factor whatever the drive [TS]

  might price down like eventually you [TS]

  would expect that test was still in [TS]

  business 10 years from now that they [TS]

  will have something in the honda civic [TS]

  category or whatever so they're working [TS]

  their way down i like the progression [TS]

  like what they're going as for the [TS]

  specifics of the product that I was [TS]

  never really impressed with the Roadster [TS]

  because it's just the you know what he [TS]

  called a lotus lotus elise yeah yeah but [TS]

  you gotta do what you gotta do i never i [TS]

  I you know it's it was a sort of a [TS]

  minimum viable product type thing but as [TS]

  a car was like alright fine whatever [TS]

  PS i was in generally impressed by the [TS]

  styling because i think the overall [TS]

  shape of the car is good that into the [TS]

  details very right but practically [TS]

  speaking have [TS]

  both written in Model S's and driven one [TS]

  it's a good car like we talk about this [TS]

  more like it's not it's not just a good [TS]

  electric car it's a good car I mean can [TS]

  you imagine well it better be for the [TS]

  price you get but they successfully made [TS]

  a good car which is no small feat [TS]

  because not a lot of new car companies [TS]

  have come out and made a good car in our [TS]

  lifetimes right and it seemed to have [TS]

  enough of the all the components [TS]

  together that even if you have a [TS]

  complaint about certain small areas that [TS]

  it's not a big deal i totally expect the [TS]

  model 3 to the same thing to be good and [TS]

  all the same ways that the S is good [TS]

  because you know that they can use the [TS]

  same foundation battery electric motor [TS]

  wheel suspension steering everything it [TS]

  I see no reason to believe that those [TS]

  aspects of the three won't be just as [TS]

  good as the model is the only place [TS]

  you're saving any money is I've imagined [TS]

  his cars smaller lighter has less [TS]

  batteries in it and so that's how you [TS]

  and they're made in the biggest factor [TS]

  in economies of scale of all the sorts [TS]

  of reasons why why does this car costs [TS]

  less than the model s mostly it's [TS]

  because they're getting better at [TS]

  building these cars and have the big [TS]

  factory building the batteries and [TS]

  there's fewer of them and it's smaller [TS]

  and all the stuff but I can imagine for [TS]

  instance the interior of the model 3 [TS]

  giving the model s the reason will run [TS]

  for his money mostly because the model [TS]

  is not super luxurious to begin with but [TS]

  like that's not where the money is in [TS]

  these cars like the minus all the [TS]

  freaking battery and just you know [TS]

  general materials and assembly like [TS]

  electric motors aren't super expensive [TS]

  and the grand scheme of things certainly [TS]

  not compared to an internal combustion [TS]

  engine where I think the three falls [TS]

  down for me is I feel like it should it [TS]

  had the opportunity to learn from the [TS]

  s-class and exceeded in all of the few [TS]

  areas where it falls down so is the [TS]

  interior going to be better than the s [TS]

  probably not [TS]

  design-wise having that big screen in [TS]

  the middle doesn't strike me as a we [TS]

  learned a lot from the the model s and [TS]

  so now we know how to make a better [TS]

  interior other than the fact they [TS]

  learned that bigger screens are better [TS]

  but my biggest complaint about the [TS]

  outside is what they've done with the [TS]

  front end treatment and in some respects [TS]

  it's obvious what they're going for it's [TS]

  like hey guys we don't have to have a [TS]

  place where air goes into the front of [TS]

  our car because there's not a giant [TS]

  exploding internal combustion engineer [TS]

  that we have to blow air on [TS]

  was it overheats we don't have to do [TS]

  that so we should not be constrained by [TS]

  the styling of internal combustion [TS]

  engine cars we have all this freedom [TS]

  let us now reimagine with a friend of a [TS]

  car can look like because why should we [TS]

  make it look like an internal combustion [TS]

  engine that's a good spirit and that's a [TS]

  good idea and they should pursue that [TS]

  but I feel like what they did was took [TS]

  the front of an internal combustion [TS]

  engine car and just erase the grill in [TS]

  Photoshop it that there's a place for [TS]

  the grill it is shaped like a car with a [TS]

  grill would be was Marcus does the same [TS]

  thing the Model S has a place for the [TS]

  grill and they just put a thing there [TS]

  that is a different color and looks [TS]

  grill like but there's no holes in it [TS]

  it's you know because you don't need air [TS]

  to go into their right that at least [TS]

  like visually from a distance like oh [TS]

  that's a car with a grill but it's not [TS]

  really grill this car clearly has no [TS]

  grill but it has shape wise the place [TS]

  for the grill so I i would encourage [TS]

  them to pursue this Avenue of styling [TS]

  further not like they went too far [TS]

  they didn't go far enough that they [TS]

  didn't sort of reimagine the front end [TS]

  of an electric vehicle that does not [TS]

  need to suck air through a big opening [TS]

  of the heart that didn't do it enough [TS]

  and this is not AI think this may not be [TS]

  the final design they have they could [TS]

  conceivably change it a little trim [TS]

  things to dress it up so friends mess as [TS]

  far as I'm concerned and then the [TS]

  overall shape I get why they made this [TS]

  play [TS]

  they're touting like the interior space [TS]

  the bedroom or whatever but its [TS]

  proportions are just not as nice as the [TS]

  SDS is a bigger car [TS]

  the bigger heart allows it to have nicer [TS]

  proportions to look more aggressive to [TS]

  look less kind of punch back in and [TS]

  dowdy and like a droplet of water or [TS]

  whatever i suspect the three will look [TS]

  better in person than a dozen pictures i [TS]

  really hope look better in person that [TS]

  doesn't pictures but if I remark I be [TS]

  feeling pretty good about my purchase [TS]

  because he still has the best-looking [TS]

  largest best-performing and prettiest [TS]

  Tesla and will for seems like a long [TS]

  time now [TS]

  well yeah I mean I I don't have any [TS]

  buyers remorse you know if for no other [TS]

  reason that this probably won't even be [TS]

  out until my lease is over there saying [TS]

  this will allegedly ship by the end of [TS]

  next year so about 18 months from now I [TS]

  would be surprised if it shipped on time [TS]

  and also there are two [TS]

  200,000 pre-orders and they currently [TS]

  can make something like 50,000 cars a [TS]

  year obviously not all those printers [TS]

  will turn into real orders because it's [TS]

  a refundable deposit so a lot of those [TS]

  people are going to cancel but you know [TS]

  even even if like a quarter of them end [TS]

  up actually going through with it and [TS]

  accepting their cars and buying them and [TS]

  even if there are no production delays [TS]

  which is unlikely it would still put it [TS]

  helped like three years roughly so [TS]

  before I could even get one if I if I [TS]

  wanted one instead of my models and it [TS]

  turns out i probably won't because i [TS]

  like big sedans and I like the [TS]

  additional features the model as I like [TS]

  the additional space i like the [TS]

  additional luxury that it will almost [TS]

  certainly continue to offer over the [TS]

  three you know cost-wise that the model [TS]

  3 is is from from the info we have so [TS]

  far none of its final form from the info [TS]

  we have so far it is substantially d [TS]

  content adore you know d option from the [TS]

  base model model s and the cheapest you [TS]

  can get a model s right now if I guess I [TS]

  just when configured it 72 hour battery [TS]

  and you can you turn off all wheel drive [TS]

  you get the cash price down to 70,000 [TS]

  and the cash pressure this is allegedly [TS]

  going to be 35,000 and they've said this [TS]

  enough times and been really sure about [TS]

  enough times that they probably really [TS]

  can't go back on that PR wise or at [TS]

  least not by much [TS]

  so in order to cut the cash price of the [TS]

  car in half [TS]

  it's going to have to come with less [TS]

  than what the S comes with at its base [TS]

  model so they've already said it's gonna [TS]

  be it's gonna have things like it's not [TS]

  going to have supercharging about [TS]

  built-in by default like you have to pay [TS]

  after for that if you want supercharging [TS]

  there's a whole bunch of stuff that [TS]

  comes standard on every model s that [TS]

  about the model 3 probably will have to [TS]

  not come with just hit that price point [TS]

  i'm guessing that this is gonna be a [TS]

  major difference between these two cars [TS]

  and and part of the reason they had to [TS]

  make it so much smaller you know and and [TS]

  make it kind of these weird proportions [TS]

  is to help set it apart i think from the [TS]

  s because you know the essence kind of [TS]

  competing in a different bracket here [TS]

  but overall I think from what they've [TS]

  shown so far the e we can have crippled [TS]

  about the dash which [TS]

  I do but even you on twitter like it's [TS]

  not even the final steering wheel and [TS]

  the final steering wheel is going to be [TS]

  amazing like a spaceship so that kind of [TS]

  might take care of the weird issue with [TS]

  not having any displaying from the [TS]

  driver but overall I think this looks [TS]

  like a really potentially awesome car [TS]

  but there's still a lot of question [TS]

  marks over whether they can actually [TS]

  deliver and we know with whether they'll [TS]

  deliver on time and what you'll actually [TS]

  get for the money because I I suspect [TS]

  there's gonna be a lot of things that we [TS]

  think you'd probably want that are going [TS]

  to be optional add-ons at that price [TS]

  point real-time follow-up of the the [TS]

  whole chat room and my memory says that [TS]

  actually they said that they will have [TS]

  supercharging on all models but they [TS]

  will have the capability to but Ilan [TS]

  said on Twitter to somebody recently [TS]

  that it might be an additional fee to [TS]

  activate it just like the old model s [TS]

  was so they will all have the ability to [TS]

  is same thing with them with the [TS]

  autopilot they will all have the [TS]

  hardware to do it but you won't [TS]

  necessarily have that enabled unless you [TS]

  pay extra [TS]

  it's in app purchase in from any car [TS]

  purchase yes it really it's basically I [TS]

  have some faith that the only wild card [TS]

  i feel like in their ability to deliver [TS]

  on this in terms of schedules and [TS]

  pricing everything is the battery [TS]

  factory because you know many things can [TS]

  go wrong there and it is a very large [TS]

  endeavor as they emphasized in the [TS]

  keynote and you're right sorry but [TS]

  everything else about this car [TS]

  they've already done on the model is it [TS]

  doesn't have any weird Falcon wing doors [TS]

  BS it is essentially a smaller s [TS]

  everything in it they they have [TS]

  substantial experience doing yes they [TS]

  know how to make cars with doors with [TS]

  door handles with mirrors with wheels [TS]

  suspension-steering of the motors if [TS]

  they can get the battery manufacturer [TS]

  the price they wanted working the way [TS]

  they wanted sticking in this car i [TS]

  totally believe they will hit their [TS]

  delivery dates because this is this is [TS]

  the kind of iteration I would expect I [TS]

  feel like the X is a weird boondoggle [TS]

  lot with those you know much larger size [TS]

  and the weird doors that it like its own [TS]

  worst enemy this is the natural [TS]

  evolution downmarket of the s and how to [TS]

  make achiever I still feel like the way [TS]

  they make sure is [TS]

  I've got its gonna have a smaller [TS]

  battery that's because it's a smaller [TS]

  car and you can get away with equal or [TS]

  rain or whatever that start with 215 [TS]

  range i think 250 [TS]

  users it was the rumor but i think they [TS]

  announced 215 yes it's official expected [TS]

  to 15 and for reference that the 70 that [TS]

  the model s 70 kilowatt-hour one [TS]

  specifies 230 and it's also a much [TS]

  bigger heavier car like if you look at [TS]

  the at the ratings compared between the [TS]

  s and the X the X ratings are lower per [TS]

  kilowatt-hour because it takes more [TS]

  energy to move the larger heavier car so [TS]

  i'm guessing with the s having 230 miles [TS]

  out of a 72 hour battery and yes they [TS]

  could put maybe a 50 or 55 into the [TS]

  model 3 to hit that goal [TS]

  yeah I don't think the other thing of [TS]

  the wild-card I don't know about is how [TS]

  much is this going away because you [TS]

  obviously it weigh less than yes but how [TS]

  much less and the only way you get it to [TS]

  weigh a lot less is to use a much [TS]

  smaller battery because those things one [TS]

  at a time or two use lighter materials [TS]

  are they replacing steel aluminum is [TS]

  there any like magnesium or other [TS]

  weirdness going you would imagine it can [TS]

  get to exotic is thirty-five thousand [TS]

  dollar car but aluminum at the very [TS]

  least could be in the mix to try to [TS]

  light in the car and obviously the base [TS]

  model i would just assume i don't [TS]

  remember this was announced [TS]

  you know one motor in the base model [TS]

  right that not the motors are again not [TS]

  as expensive as internal combustion [TS]

  engines but if you want to save money [TS]

  like that's the beauty of electric cars [TS]

  and the sort of the curse is there's not [TS]

  much to them there's electric motor like [TS]

  more or less directly attached to your [TS]

  wheels through a fixed gear ratio their [TS]

  suspension the steering there's some [TS]

  pumps and compressors there's a giant [TS]

  battery and then there's a living room [TS]

  that you put there to say that right and [TS]

  that's it that's all there is in the car [TS]

  this inventing I guess bird for blowing [TS]

  air on you like they're so many fewer [TS]

  components than the giant mess that is [TS]

  under the hood of internal combustion [TS]

  engine cars we're just like the little [TS]

  villages and you know all around the [TS]

  engine in terms of keeping the engine [TS]

  cool and and and keeping the oil flowing [TS]

  through it and things going up and down [TS]

  and firing Sparks and wires and it's [TS]

  just there's just so much extra stuff [TS]

  there that just isn't in this car which [TS]

  means that if you want to make the car [TS]

  for cheaper you can reduce your [TS]

  component costs or you can use less of [TS]

  something that's expensive but there's [TS]

  not much else they're like I really [TS]

  don't feel you know that's why i say on [TS]

  the interior I guess they have to make [TS]

  it not as nice as the s just to like to [TS]

  differentiate their lines but how much [TS]

  money are you really going to save by [TS]

  using different seat materials like you [TS]

  could save a couple hundred bucks here [TS]

  and there but the big-ticket items that [TS]

  stupid battery all the big steel parts [TS]

  that make up a car that you can't get [TS]

  rid of because you need suspension and [TS]

  wheels and a body and crash protection [TS]

  and stuff like that are and I guess that [TS]

  you know one motorist cheaper than two [TS]

  and then that's it then you know so [TS]

  they're they're wise to go after their [TS]

  big cost centers the batteries like how [TS]

  cheaply can we make them can we build [TS]

  like this giant Factory and make pretty [TS]

  huge capital investments that we can [TS]

  turn out that the first year 250,000 [TS]

  these batteries and put them into cars [TS]

  that we can sell for thirty-five [TS]

  thousand dollars and at least break even [TS]

  or come close to a product I mean that's [TS]

  the sort of metal thing that we're not [TS]

  really talking about here is that you [TS]

  know Tesla is it would also what you may [TS]

  think it's a car guy about their [TS]

  individual products they're actually [TS]

  doing the thing that so many other car [TS]

  companies have failed to do which is [TS]

  build electric cars build a business on [TS]

  them and make them good cars that people [TS]

  want to buy like that just you know [TS]

  it'sit's it kind of goes without saying [TS]

  we don't say like oh I've complained [TS]

  about this particular car but like [TS]

  nobody else is doing that how the [TS]

  biggest car companies in the world [TS]

  sometimes have difficulty making a car [TS]

  that people want to buy and they're [TS]

  making internal combustion engine car [TS]

  sometimes they miss that target tesla's [TS]

  making electric cars that people want to [TS]

  buy but hundreds of thousands of people [TS]

  water sight unseen so they're you know [TS]

  they're they're quite a phenomenon [TS]

  regardless of the quality of the range [TS]

  of products and this is like their third [TS]

  car or whatever i'm willing to give them [TS]

  why to the way to continue to forth to [TS]

  continue to figure out how to do cars if [TS]

  they're still in business but i really [TS]

  hope they are you know when my grandkids [TS]

  are driving they should be making pretty [TS]

  amazing cars for prices that hopefully [TS]

  anybody can afford the first of all it [TS]

  being in business [TS]

  all in all the way out that I think [TS]

  someone's gonna buy them apple tried [TS]

  right i isolate isolate the car [TS]

  companies the bottom but well maybe a [TS]

  police car company could would even sell [TS]

  to a car company i think they have [TS]

  assassinated on first before you know [TS]

  but I i'm thinking like you know [TS]

  worst-case scenario if they're like [TS]

  desperate and if they're gonna go out of [TS]

  business [TS]

  I think they're gonna get bought rather [TS]

  than just shut down but anyway it's [TS]

  really quite something like to see the [TS]

  amount of enthusiasm [TS]

  and and energy and momentum behind this [TS]

  launch of this car that we know almost [TS]

  nothing about eight and even before we [TS]

  knew anything about it can't happen your [TS]

  story but it's this is really we're on [TS]

  the cusp of something big here and it's [TS]

  it's happening now it's not like this is [TS]

  like well in the future cars will be [TS]

  really nice and will be all electric [TS]

  know today [TS]

  cars are really nice and all electric [TS]

  they're just really expensive right now [TS]

  but they're here they exist they're [TS]

  selling you know like they I think they [TS]

  have something like a hundred and fifty [TS]

  thousand Model S is already out in the [TS]

  world so there's all their they already [TS]

  sell these cars in decent volume and yet [TS]

  this that isn't as much volume as like [TS]

  you know the the entire world driving [TS]

  population or some other big brand cars [TS]

  but that is like real volume that counts [TS]

  for something [TS]

  you know that these things already [TS]

  exists today and they're only going to [TS]

  become more of them in the future it i [TS]

  don't think this is a temporary fad I [TS]

  think this is like this is the lake and [TS]

  once you drive one you realize like oh [TS]

  my god this is amazing [TS]

  why doesn't everybody happened of course [TS]

  the answer is because it's very [TS]

  expensive right now but that seems to be [TS]

  a temporary problem i'm kind of confused [TS]

  about why some of them have a shape door [TS]

  handles and at least one model i presume [TS]

  the base model doesn't like that is that [TS]

  like a value add feature well you by the [TS]

  base model you get straight door handle [TS]

  like Marcos crappy cars but if you have [TS]

  the upsell models your door handle is [TS]

  slightly l-shaped they probably haven't [TS]

  decided which one yet [TS]

  like the one with the elves and built [TS]

  the other one the other without them all [TS]

  those that I think I when they when they [TS]

  drove the cars out onto the stage [TS]

  another electric car moments when you [TS]

  realize they don't have to worry about [TS]

  filling the room with carbon monoxide is [TS]

  a drive cars out hundreds straight [TS]

  exactly and they also have to worry [TS]

  about the noise of the engines running [TS]

  just drive right out fine [TS]

  yeah that was pretty wild really really [TS]

  every time I Drive this electric [TS]

  drivetrain I'm just like all my god this [TS]

  is so good [TS]

  like why why would it if if you can get [TS]

  one of these if you can both swing the [TS]

  price and if it fits within your [TS]

  lifestyle with like you know range [TS]

  concerns and everything if those are and [TS]

  those are two big IFS but if it fits [TS]

  why wouldn't you get it like once you [TS]

  drive it that's honestly how you feel [TS]

  because it's [TS]

  no good if you have the means i highly [TS]

  suggest try picking one up i have to [TS]

  tell you though the interior is so [TS]

  unbelievably bad to my eyes it's got a [TS]

  dashboard ish it has a thing that looks [TS]

  like a dashboard but all it has on the [TS]

  dashboard is a steering wheel and a [TS]

  touchscreen and yes I'm aware that all [TS]

  of this is in flight but it looks like [TS]

  they didn't even try yet like oh god I [TS]

  don't like the floating display it just [TS]

  looks fragile to my eyes which i know is [TS]

  is akc problem but I don't like it and I [TS]

  definitely do not like having any sort [TS]

  of gauges behind the steering wheel I [TS]

  just think that's a terrible idea a lot [TS]

  of other cars have tried that like and [TS]

  there have been various theories i mean [TS]

  the economic one is like will make a [TS]

  world car that's symmetrical so we can [TS]

  do right and left hand drive and just [TS]

  put the dash cluster in the middle [TS]

  I'm not sure how much i buy that as a [TS]

  reason but it's something you can see [TS]

  and think about the one of the reasons [TS]

  they gave was like well it's better to [TS]

  not have to change your focal distance [TS]

  as much from looking out the window [TS]

  where your focal distance is way off [TS]

  down the road to looking super close to [TS]

  you be like the gauge cluster so let's [TS]

  do like a two-level dash or put it in [TS]

  the center so it's you know difference [TS]

  between focusing at four feet versus two [TS]

  feet [TS]

  I'm not sure I buy that because i don't [TS]

  know i mean III can't understand maybe [TS]

  the focal distance you don't want to go [TS]

  from really close to really far but how [TS]

  much farther away from you can you get [TS]

  that dashboard when it 10 had still have [TS]

  it inside the car with you it can you [TS]

  know make that big of a difference and I [TS]

  just think consumers have voted with [TS]

  their feet to say every car that has [TS]

  tried to do this and there have been [TS]

  many of them the feedback has been [TS]

  universally negative not massively [TS]

  negative but enough negative that in [TS]

  subsequent models they changed every car [TS]

  that's not a two-level dash where you [TS]

  have 17 Gators close one so far [TS]

  regardless had a bunch of gauges in the [TS]

  middle has eventually gone back to a [TS]

  more conventional arrangement or like [TS]

  that model has you know faded away a new [TS]

  models replaced i think maybe toda echo [TS]

  still has that arrangement as the SD the [TS]

  loan store but it baffles me why people [TS]

  want to do that in anything other than a [TS]

  concept Carly and the wild card is in [TS]

  course we don't know it [TS]

  I can find you have another solution [TS]

  maybe it's all heads up display and have [TS]

  an amazing HUD alright fine I'm you know [TS]

  I'm just saying is like somewhere where [TS]

  the driver doesn't have to turn his head [TS]

  you need to be able to see things like [TS]

  how fast you're going and you know other [TS]

  information about the car is your turn [TS]

  signal on your headlights on like [TS]

  without having to look elsewhere i feel [TS]

  like that should be easily within the [TS]

  drivers vision without requiring and [TS]

  that's why we have gauge clusters so I [TS]

  really hope they have some solution to [TS]

  that that isn't just look at the giant [TS]

  screen but the Giants 17 or 18 inch [TS]

  screen that we have stable to the front [TS]

  of the dashboard [TS]

  yeah I completely agree i just i [TS]

  understand it's not the final design but [TS]

  god I do not like it at all it just [TS]

  looks so boring and sis this vast [TS]

  emptiness there it's it's terrible [TS]

  all in all I am very interested in the [TS]

  car i'm not interested enough to have [TS]

  put down a pre-order and at this point [TS]

  there's no point putting down a [TS]

  pre-order because Declan will be out of [TS]

  college by the time they would deliver [TS]

  on that formerly part was saying but I'm [TS]

  but I'm really intrigued and i'm really [TS]

  pleased that they're they're moving on [TS]

  off down market is really the right way [TS]

  to describe it but certainly into a [TS]

  larger segment of the market and having [TS]

  driven underscores model s it kind of [TS]

  ruined me for life I mean it [TS]

  electric cars done right are [TS]

  phenomenally cool and and I'm really [TS]

  really anxious to see what this looks [TS]

  like when it's all said and done when [TS]

  it's actually released when will you [TS]

  know what I also want to see is like how [TS]

  did anyone else respond to this [TS]

  yeah what happens when this eat into a [TS]

  big part of sales of the BMW 3-series [TS]

  you know what happened what happened [TS]

  how does everyone else react to this [TS]

  well they already have all got electric [TS]

  our projects in the works like all them [TS]

  a BMW already got one of the i8 and [TS]

  India the i3 and portions got the there [TS]

  are their electric car product that a [TS]

  lot of people have essentially model s [TS]

  competitors in various stages of [TS]

  development i think now it's just a race [TS]

  of who can get their cars to market soon [TS]

  enough because of tehsil beat them the [TS]

  market is going to be a real problem [TS]

  because as we've seen people just gonna [TS]

  buy whatever whatever good electric car [TS]

  is about [TS]

  well they're gonna buy it if for sure [TS]

  beats the the model 3 out i mean the [TS]

  portions are kind of already lost the [TS]

  palace has been out like those something [TS]

  was brought up in a recent article I was [TS]

  reading Porsches target for their [TS]

  electric vehicles like I was going [TS]

  through 15 seconds 0 to 60 in the car [TS]

  that's already out now beats that the [TS]

  model for you that this is a car you're [TS]

  going on within three years that's not [TS]

  good planning right especially if your [TS]

  name is portion you're gonna sell it for [TS]

  a fortune levels prices Tesla is a [TS]

  strong competitor and has a lead but I [TS]

  feel like every cut car companies are [TS]

  competing with even like the new audi a8 [TS]

  was designed from the beginning to be [TS]

  this is it this structure this chassis [TS]

  this this you know underpinnings of this [TS]

  car accepts both an internal combustion [TS]

  engine and a full electric setup they do [TS]

  a good job [TS]

  well they will be as good as Tesla who [TS]

  knows but all everyone else has woken up [TS]

  now and said you know we have to do this [TS]

  and now it's just to see a race to see [TS]

  who gets there first I really do feel [TS]

  like the the only edge the established [TS]

  car companies have is the fact that [TS]

  better its styling and they're better [TS]

  look better details and interior and [TS]

  just general kind of like the the [TS]

  intangibles because the Tesla's for all [TS]

  of their their good looks and everything [TS]

  still they haven't I don't know they [TS]

  haven't really defined a strong visual [TS]

  language and I was that you know they [TS]

  kind of have because you can tell a test [TS]

  looks like a Tesla but they all kind of [TS]

  look more generic in-laws like then the [TS]

  fairly distinctive personalities of the [TS]

  other car lines that yeah if you see an [TS]

  audi you know it's an hour be if you see [TS]

  a BMW not to BWW you know like there's [TS]

  this family resemblances the changeover [TS]

  the year and I think Tesla's is to my [TS]

  eyes having trouble establishing [TS]

  anything outside the sort of generic [TS]

  future looking car aesthetic in the [TS]

  early days of the ipod apple had a [TS]

  really really strong advantage over the [TS]

  rest of the market that not only were [TS]

  they often first to some of those form [TS]

  factors they would negotiate rates with [TS]

  the flash memory and they would they [TS]

  would consume so much flash memory [TS]

  production in the world that other [TS]

  manufacturers were not even able to [TS]

  match them on price we even get enough [TS]

  flash memory or get the best kind of [TS]

  flat memory because Apple was consuming [TS]

  at all and had locked up all the supply [TS]

  one of Tesla has that for lithium-ion [TS]

  battery [TS]

  production yeah they're not buying [TS]

  they're making themselves what I fully [TS]

  expect to happen is as part of Tesla's [TS]

  financial viability if they have any [TS]

  excess capacity they will sell batteries [TS]

  from the gigafactory to audi and BMW and [TS]

  Mercedes or whatever because because why [TS]

  wouldn't you like them in the same [TS]

  reason toyota sells the the body called [TS]

  the previous electric drivetrain to so [TS]

  many other car manufacturers they're not [TS]

  afraid of people competing the priests [TS]

  because they feel like the whole package [TS]

  but they'll sell you their system at a [TS]

  at a you know had a profit and license [TS]

  that essentially to you to use your car [TS]

  she's not interested in it [TS]

  one other thing I'm calling is that you [TS]

  remember the the faith beyond the [TS]

  Volkswagen Phaeton are you pronounce it [TS]

  it was like their attempt to make a [TS]

  high-end BW which is weird because IM w [TS]

  is called an audi but anyway vaguely [TS]

  confused product but anyway the reason [TS]

  I'm calling is the the new audi a2 but [TS]

  the option of electric drivetrain my [TS]

  understanding is the new Phaeton is only [TS]

  electric like so that's that's going to [TS]

  be the Volks what is the volkswagen [TS]

  models compared like everyone seems like [TS]

  they want to have one and just it's not [TS]

  so much that like the their secret tech [TS]

  the Tesla has unlocked the Tesla has [TS]

  proven that if you just do a really good [TS]

  job with modern lithium-ion battery [TS]

  technology and put some electric motors [TS]

  people will buy that car for like it [TS]

  like if you if you had told any car [TS]

  manually totality several years ago just [TS]

  sell a car starting at 70 grand the [TS]

  electric can get that you gave him the [TS]

  specs of the my life like no one's gonna [TS]

  buy that that's ridiculous people why [TS]

  don't we just tell them the cars we know [TS]

  how to make exactly the same price [TS]

  that's better in every possible way like [TS]

  that was their shortsightedness they [TS]

  didn't see that this didn't see the [TS]

  advantages of this product it's not [TS]

  because I said we have no idea how to [TS]

  build that because in so many respects [TS]

  building a pure electric car is so much [TS]

  more straightforward than hybrid i was [TS]

  just all them were doing like Oh hybrid [TS]

  systems and we'll go back and forth and [TS]

  the motor will charge the battery in [TS]