The Accidental Tech Podcast

165: Time Was…


  we should briefly discuss that it is [TS]

  earlier in the week we have some [TS]

  interesting travel arrangements between [TS]

  the three of us coming up in the next [TS]

  couple of weeks and so we're trying to [TS]

  get ahead of everything [TS]

  additionally we should note that jon is [TS]

  coming to us on assignment from an [TS]

  undisclosed location [TS]

  so if he sounds a little bit peculiar if [TS]

  you hear slightly more background noise [TS]

  unusual that's not his fault that's what [TS]

  being on assignment is all about so [TS]

  please bear with us [TS]

  not much of an assignment my internet [TS]

  went out of my house so i had to find [TS]

  make other arrangements better that's [TS]

  not my files box from i don't know how [TS]

  many years ago 10 years ago 12 it's [TS]

  really really old and I think it's [TS]

  finally given up the ghost witches a [TS]

  shame and of course it does it now at [TS]

  the most inconvenient time we have to [TS]

  podcast during this week and I'm about [TS]

  to leave somewhere to complications so [TS]

  what can you do [TS]

  well you know things happen but we [TS]

  appreciate you not only be going on [TS]

  assignment like that but also admitting [TS]

  to the fact that on assignment just [TS]

  means you have internet problems i was [TS]

  trying to build you up and make it [TS]

  sounds super exciting and then you had [TS]

  to go and ruin it [TS]

  yeah i've also got my my little cup of [TS]

  water on the same level as my macbook [TS]

  air [TS]

  I'm totally a channeling you you know I [TS]

  hear that's a bad idea [TS]

  I hear that's very dangerous again [TS]

  limited options in my undisclosed well [TS]

  Godspeed my god will be so funny if you [TS]

  spilled it i really don't want you to [TS]

  but I neither do i but but that would be [TS]

  going I'm going to be pretty careful as [TS]

  you can imagine my goodness alright so [TS]

  we should start with some follow-up the [TS]

  Internet has written to tell us about [TS]

  the tesla model name a team now I didn't [TS]

  really I knew this and I think you guys [TS]

  did too but none of us our lease I [TS]

  didn't really want to bring it up [TS]

  because I didn't think it was relevant [TS]

  and nobody was a hundred percent sure at [TS]

  the time that we recorded whether this [TS]

  was a clever like backronym or if this [TS]

  is a good theory or what but the [TS]

  Internet has written to tell us that the [TS]

  intention for the tesla model names [TS]

  which are sx3 and why the original [TS]

  intention was for them to BS xe8 and y [TS]

  which you jumble that around a little [TS]

  bit that become [TS]

  s.e.x y which is then the word sexy and [TS]

  haha look at how clever Elon Musk is so [TS]

  this is our just our way of [TS]

  acknowledging that yes we are aware of [TS]

  this and in fact we were aware of this [TS]

  we just didn't really want to bring it [TS]

  up and now we have been compelled to [TS]

  bring it up it's actually not quite true [TS]

  that one of us did bring it up and i [TS]

  actually ended it out i thought it [TS]

  sounded so juvenile and implausible I'm [TS]

  like that's probably not true it i don't [TS]

  want to have that in the show so i just [TS]

  edited out it's so you actually did [TS]

  cover it [TS]

  you got to read more articles about it [TS]

  on mosque maybe i don't i think a better [TS]

  off not reading your articles already [TS]

  asked [TS]

  yeah I didn't go back and look at the [TS]

  master plan thing but I'd that during [TS]

  the presentation for the model 3 said [TS]

  the master plan was three cars so at [TS]

  best best case the original plan could [TS]

  have been for ssex you know what the [TS]

  four models now and the whole thing with [TS]

  the why and what I don't know [TS]

  anyway it sounds silly it is silly and [TS]

  it doesn't work because it's called the [TS]

  three and there's no why [TS]

  and the ex came before the three it's [TS]

  just a mess yeah but everyone thought [TS]

  that we were not aware of this because [TS]

  whether or not we brought it up on the [TS]

  original version of the show wasn't on [TS]

  the release version of marketers said [TS]

  but we are aware I whatever i don't [TS]

  think this is amusing as everyone else [TS]

  does like I don't what did whatever it [TS]

  doesn't really matter to me but since we [TS]

  brought up the tehsil any other thoughts [TS]

  on the test left for Marco same old [TS]

  stuff still love it still love it still [TS]

  awesome i really am just enjoying it a [TS]

  ton [TS]

  the thought of going back to a gas car [TS]

  now or as underscore David Smith calls [TS]

  and exploding dinosaur car I it just [TS]

  seems like the past it seems like a step [TS]

  back to think about it and there's no [TS]

  gas car on the market that I'm [TS]

  interested in [TS]

  and by the way sorry underscore but i'm [TS]

  not going to give you credit for the [TS]

  exploding dinosaurs thing he claimed in [TS]

  select the other day that he had coined [TS]

  that term and i'm going to say no on [TS]

  that one [TS]

  have you found prior art I don't know [TS]

  when he claims to have coined it but [TS]

  I've heard for a long long time Google [TS]

  searches for to go back pretty far he [TS]

  could have coined it when he was 15 I [TS]

  don't know but it's yeah that's pretty [TS]

  old [TS]

  I'm gonna do I hadn't heard that exact [TS]

  combination of her Dino juice in [TS]

  reference to regular traditional motor [TS]

  oil instead of synthetic [TS]

  but I had not heard this particular [TS]

  combination that being said we will put [TS]

  this link in the show notes this is [TS]

  underscored David Smith's innards review [TS]

  of the Tesla Model ass and it was really [TS]

  great i really really enjoyed it and it [TS]

  is exactly what it says on the tenets [TS]

  his review from the Nerds perspective [TS]

  tomorrow if you've been in the 3 GT [TS]

  since you've owned the Tesla only to [TS]

  move it in and out of the garage when [TS]

  doing some driver arrangement and it's [TS]

  only very briefly but that's fine it's [TS]

  still a great car for what it is but it [TS]

  like this is again this is why Tesla is [TS]

  is so interesting because I really want [TS]

  you drive an all-electric car it really [TS]

  does make all other gas cars feel like [TS]

  obsolete things in the past i just it [TS]

  it's hard to describe it just it's just [TS]

  a feeling that you get and it's the [TS]

  average great i did I I do have a little [TS]

  bit more experienced now with autopilot [TS]

  with the automatic steering I did a [TS]

  couple of highway driving the day and [TS]

  and so I'd I used it for a lot of them I [TS]

  I agree mostly with what underscore says [TS]

  about it which is that it really is more [TS]

  like an advanced cruise control [TS]

  it's not the kind of thing where you [TS]

  want to stop paying attention or even [TS]

  can safely stop paying attention and I [TS]

  would barely call itself driving because [TS]

  basic things will throw it off like if [TS]

  you're driving on the highway lane and [TS]

  the land the lane you're in splits and [TS]

  part of it was like the continue on this [TS]

  road fork and the other part of it is [TS]

  like the get ready to exit off somewhere [TS]

  else or the highway spoken to whether it [TS]

  chooses to follow the right side of the [TS]

  split it if you're like if he should be [TS]

  staying left is kind of inconsistent and [TS]

  vague it and there were a couple of [TS]

  times where it was steering me I thought [TS]

  a little too close to like walls on the [TS]

  side that barriers in the side and [TS]

  everything so I got a little freaked out [TS]

  a couple times so basically I wouldn't [TS]

  necessarily say that this is like [TS]

  massively useful you can't stop paying [TS]

  attention you can even take your hands [TS]

  off the wheel [TS]

  you're basically left it loosely holding [TS]

  the steering wheel because it turns for [TS]

  you you know like buy it by the car so [TS]

  you're basically left [TS]

  loosely gripping the steering wheel [TS]

  still holding your hands up at least one [TS]

  hand and so it's kinda like what's [TS]

  really the benefit of it if you have to [TS]

  if you have to do all that so I don't [TS]

  know I'm a little torn on the value of [TS]

  autopilot and I i couldn't i can now see [TS]

  firsthand just how incredibly [TS]

  complicated the idea of self-driving [TS]

  cars really is in practice if this is [TS]

  like that the current generation of what [TS]

  regular consumers can get today we still [TS]

  have a lot of work to do and and you [TS]

  know it is very impressive compared to [TS]

  nothing but is really still it is very [TS]

  early days and i would not expect fully [TS]

  autonomous self driving cars in the next [TS]

  few years I i think where I think we're [TS]

  further away on that then a lot of [TS]

  people might think just because driving [TS]

  is so complicated and it these are such [TS]

  hard AI problems and such hard technical [TS]

  problems to solve that and then after [TS]

  that we'll be such a hard human problem [TS]

  to solve that I think we're still a [TS]

  while off on that but I do think we're [TS]

  heading that direction they just a [TS]

  question of like you know how quickly [TS]

  and maybe not so quickly [TS]

  actually i want to i agree with Margo [TS]

  and I want to talk a little bit about [TS]

  self-driving cars actually put that in [TS]

  the topic list is something I want to [TS]

  talk about for a while because of all [TS]

  the press with the Tesla stuff but i [TS]

  just want to chime in briefly and say [TS]

  that i found a reference to explain [TS]

  dinosaurs from 10 years ago more than 10 [TS]

  years ago so we're against underscore i [TS]

  just found a forum post quoting [TS]

  something is a December 27 2005 someone [TS]

  saying just remember that your car is [TS]

  propelled by exploiting dinosaurs [TS]

  anyway it's a really old saying again [TS]

  underscores alive in 2005 we did he [TS]

  never claimed when he pointed but i'm [TS]

  going to say no anyway I'm gonna say yes [TS]

  I think he's in his thirties like us so [TS]

  you know pretty sure would like to hide [TS]

  I you gotta keep going backwards and [TS]

  Google keep finding it anyway 2005 is [TS]

  the earliest i found an end two seconds [TS]

  with the clear down here so with the [TS]

  self-driving car things you hear about [TS]

  it because the test autopilot you hear [TS]

  about it because all the other car [TS]

  makers that are showing their [TS]

  self-driving cars just today I saw a [TS]

  news story about the agency is about the [TS]

  convoy of self driving trucks that went [TS]

  across Europe [TS]

  no I saw the headline but I didn't see [TS]

  anything else had like a human-powered [TS]

  one in the front and then like two or [TS]

  three days like big you know semi-trucks [TS]

  two or three behind [TS]

  following along looks terrifying i think [TS]

  the press and the public has and even [TS]

  car magazines have really jumped the gun [TS]

  on this one because it's clear we have a [TS]

  nice progression from cruise control to [TS]

  radar cruise control two things that [TS]

  will try to steer for you and so on and [TS]

  so forth but to make that final leap to [TS]

  actual self-driving cars with you know [TS]

  with all the sci-fi pictures when you [TS]

  see someone like reading a magazine all [TS]

  there in the car i think we are a ways [TS]

  away from that and especially since the [TS]

  most successful version of this the idea [TS]

  which i think is the google self-driving [TS]

  cars that tool around their campus and [TS]

  have been driving you know if the [TS]

  hundreds of thousands of miles like [TS]

  that's that's the one that the press [TS]

  stories loved the site like however many [TS]

  thousands upon thousands of miles Google [TS]

  self-driving cars have driven just you [TS]

  know I never had like you know one [TS]

  accident or something that was a human's [TS]

  fault or whatever like that the amazing [TS]

  driving record in the amazing technology [TS]

  like wow well if that's happening in the [TS]

  magical Silicon Valley surely it will [TS]

  only be a couple of years before I'm [TS]

  able to go to work in a self-driving car [TS]

  and it just comes down to the you know [TS]

  the difference between like the [TS]

  conditions and the way the the thing [TS]

  about so the Google self-driving cars [TS]

  they mapped out every inch of this [TS]

  friggin roads and the cars no not just [TS]

  which you know where the roads are like [TS]

  a GPS style map but i think they have [TS]

  like 3d terrain maps of every inch of [TS]

  the roads may have you know a lack of [TS]

  weather and they have lines painted on [TS]

  the road and I have other things that [TS]

  you know it'sit's california for crying [TS]

  out the cars on vacation [TS]

  yeah people don't live in those [TS]

  environments and google has not map 3d [TS]

  laser mapped every inch of pavement [TS]

  everywhere and another point of cars [TS]

  that can drive it out their markers got [TS]

  one now we'll stay in the lane as much [TS]

  as you can if you can figure out where [TS]

  the lanes are and you know there's not [TS]

  snow covering the road and always that [TS]

  you know all these other factors but he [TS]

  can't read a magazine because it's not [TS]

  doesn't hasn't gone that last that the [TS]

  last little bit right and last little [TS]

  bit of killer you can make increasingly [TS]

  sophisticated it's essentially smart [TS]

  cruise control but to get over that [TS]

  hurdle where you don't have to pay [TS]

  attention anymore in the same way you [TS]

  don't have to pay attention when you [TS]

  take the train [TS]

  because you're not driving the train [TS]

  right that is going to take a really [TS]

  really long time and i'm going to say [TS]

  probably not within our lifetimes on [TS]

  existing roads [TS]

  Wow because every special road sure [TS]

  especially mapped roads may be but like [TS]

  when I mean existing roads in like a [TS]

  road that a human could drive on right [TS]

  now that's not specially prepared that [TS]

  has been carefully mapped out that [TS]

  doesn't have things embedded in the [TS]

  pavement like all those things you can [TS]

  do like you know it's not saying you [TS]

  can't have this man they could they [TS]

  could do that to every single Road in [TS]

  all of Manhattan and then you just know [TS]

  that if you go to Manhattan there's no [TS]

  more taxes you just get there you go [TS]

  self-driving car because it's a grid and [TS]

  I can do whatever they want and they can [TS]

  make it work right in limited [TS]

  circumstances it can work but in general [TS]

  I think it's so far off because it's [TS]

  just so much harder problem than winning [TS]

  jeopardy or playing go or anything like [TS]

  that because the possible inputs are so [TS]

  incredibly varied humans have difficulty [TS]

  sometimes finding where the whole road [TS]

  is and we're pretty good at looking at [TS]

  the world and figure out what the hell [TS]

  it is we're looking at so i think full [TS]

  self-driving cars in the way that people [TS]

  imagine it is really really far [TS]

  yeah I don't think it's that far off i [TS]

  would say most likely within our [TS]

  lifetimes but you know I think most [TS]

  people are thinking this is going to [TS]

  come in like 25 years and I think it's [TS]

  probably more like 10 to 20 it's hard [TS]

  for me to say more than 20,000 our [TS]

  lifetimes like I think we'd be pretty [TS]

  darn old because you need you just need [TS]

  so much and it's not just the tech like [TS]

  even if the tech gets there in 25-30 [TS]

  years then you need all the legislation [TS]

  and then you need all the other like I [TS]

  think it'll be fine that like it will [TS]

  have arrived as far as people are [TS]

  concerned if it works in limited [TS]

  circumstances so if all London a [TS]

  self-driving cars would like see you [TS]

  didn't successful having cars are going [TS]

  to come but they're totally there's like [TS]

  sure they're in all of London there in [TS]

  Manhattan they're over there in disney [TS]

  parks like there were there wherever [TS]

  there are there all over Silicon Valley [TS]

  but I mean like a car dropping on any [TS]

  road the United States and it drives and [TS]

  is able to successfully get from point A [TS]

  to point B and maybe you don't need to [TS]

  get all the way there but i think people [TS]

  envision a such a quick ramp from [TS]

  controlled circumstances laser map roads [TS]

  and then fast forward a couple years and [TS]

  any road [TS]

  and I just don't see that happening just [TS]

  because the like we did you know I I [TS]

  don't think we have the we don't have [TS]

  the know-how the technology for that yet [TS]

  I mean just look at those darker [TS]

  challenges where they have those [TS]

  vehicles try today they've come so far [TS]

  but it's it's kind of like a I wear when [TS]

  I was a kid it was like computers can [TS]

  answer simple questions now and maybe [TS]

  they're about as smart as a cockroach [TS]

  and if we extrapolate from current [TS]

  trends by the time you're an adult [TS]

  computers will be super geniuses and [TS]

  they're not AI is really really hard and [TS]

  we don't understand even our own minds [TS]

  work and it's not easy to you know that [TS]

  it's unlike all the other situations [TS]

  like games like chess and go in jeopardy [TS]

  it's not a controlled situation is the [TS]

  real world and our problem is [TS]

  synthesizing sensor input and processing [TS]

  it and we don't even know her own [TS]

  freakin brains do that we don't even [TS]

  have a good model to work off of so what [TS]

  should we were working off our brain now [TS]

  should we do be doing something [TS]

  different we're trying the best we can [TS]

  but i think it's much harder problem [TS]

  then the news media thinks it is do we [TS]

  know when the bear with me for a second [TS]

  here do we know when the Tesla [TS]

  supercharger started getting installed [TS]

  that was like couple years ago right [TS]

  maybe three or four years ago right so [TS]

  one of the things that I've always [TS]

  thought about electric cars being [TS]

  completely not feasible is that how [TS]

  could they possibly create enough [TS]

  charging stations to make it feasible [TS]

  and one company as of the time record is [TS]

  claiming 613 supercharger stations and [TS]

  i'm looking at this map and it's all [TS]

  over the United States there's some in [TS]

  Europe and Asia as well and they're sick [TS]

  3628 superchargers across those 613 [TS]

  stations and so this is surely not the [TS]

  coverage that gas stations have but it [TS]

  is a tremendous amount of coverage in [TS]

  the United States which is not a small [TS]

  country and so I think about that i [TS]

  think well they really did kind of fix [TS]

  this problem and then I think to myself [TS]

  well let's assume for a second that in [TS]

  order to get totally self-driving cars [TS]

  you need to put you know sensors on the [TS]

  on the sides of each Road in in between [TS]

  each lane or what have you and [TS]

  admittedly there are many gazillions of [TS]

  miles of roadway in the United States [TS]

  and but what if we just said hey on any [TS]

  you know federally-recognized interstate [TS]

  we're going to put the sensors necessary [TS]

  to get self-driving cars on there if we [TS]

  can put a whole bunch of superchargers [TS]

  out there in the span of about four [TS]

  years since the model ass [TS]

  we might be able to do this thing that I [TS]

  sitting here now that seems just [TS]

  completely implausible but I thought [TS]

  that the superchargers or what is now [TS]

  the superchargers was implausible and [TS]

  that seems to Fort alright so you never [TS]

  really know [TS]

  well I think you're overestimating the [TS]

  superchargers because first off you [TS]

  think the supercharger map looks [TS]

  impressive until you were to put it [TS]

  side-by-side with the map of gas [TS]

  stations so sure you get a certain [TS]

  amount of time and gas stations you felt [TS]

  pretty quick [TS]

  gas stations you're not there at the [TS]

  pump for very long right so do the math [TS]

  on that you know if we convert all the [TS]

  cars to electric coming out is there [TS]

  enough superchargers to support the [TS]

  existing testicles [TS]

  maybe but charging the test was takes so [TS]

  much longer that you would need more [TS]

  supercharging stations not fewer to [TS]

  support the number of cars if they were [TS]

  eventually to become all-electric so I'm [TS]

  not saying it's you know it's an amazing [TS]

  feat and surely enough for long car [TS]

  trips for the number of people who have [TS]

  testicles right now right but it's so [TS]

  far from you know that and that's a [TS]

  fairly easy problem the grand scheme [TS]

  it's just keep making more of these [TS]

  stations and you keep selling more of [TS]

  the cars and the corresponding stations [TS]

  and you know it should all work out so I [TS]

  think it's totally feasible as would be [TS]

  putting things in the roads are doing [TS]

  what you need to do especially limited [TS]

  scope just New York City just london or [TS]

  you know regions of the country [TS]

  especially ones with not a lot of [TS]

  weather but then you look at how the [TS]

  United States government spends money [TS]

  and we can't even keep our bridges from [TS]

  falling into rivers can can't fill the [TS]

  potholes that are covering every street [TS]

  you know so it had in the past couple [TS]

  decades the US has not been really good [TS]

  about infrastructure spending so that is [TS]

  definitely technology is a lot of people [TS]

  in the chat room trying to send me [TS]

  videos ever seen this video have you [TS]

  seen this video like things that look [TS]

  impressive and controlled circumstances [TS]

  don't necessarily translate to the the [TS]

  test of drop his car onto any road in [TS]

  the entire United States and it can [TS]

  drive you to anywhere else in the United [TS]

  States it's it's a very complicated [TS]

  problem [TS]

  well the thing is to like these are [TS]

  these are very infrastructure heavy [TS]

  problems if you get if you start getting [TS]

  into like you know fixing the roads are [TS]

  improving the roads to be more friendly [TS]

  toward self-driving like [TS]

  like the reason why superchargers could [TS]

  get built and cover a big portion of the [TS]

  country and useful way is because you [TS]

  don't have to put one under every square [TS]

  foot of road you can kind of cherry pick [TS]

  where they go and they serve wide areas [TS]

  whereas anything that involves modifying [TS]

  the roads themselves or just even as [TS]

  Johnson they just bring the roads up to [TS]

  standards of like basic maintenance and [TS]

  like painting lines on them [TS]

  yeah looks like the lines on the road we [TS]

  tend to paint those so much in this [TS]

  country [TS]

  exactly so like basic things like that [TS]

  it's easy it you wouldn't need to put [TS]

  advanced sensors and everything on the [TS]

  highways because the highways are easy [TS]

  for self-driving cars to navigate [TS]

  I mean my test can do that you know [TS]

  already fairly well like the highway is [TS]

  the easy part [TS]

  the hard part is all the other roads and [TS]

  you know it sounds like it's there it's [TS]

  such a hard problem because the roads [TS]

  that cover our country and other [TS]

  countries but the cars in particular [TS]

  especially when you're recording where [TS]

  me and John live in the northeast where [TS]

  weather is severe [TS]

  everything is ancient and there's no [TS]

  budget to fix anything it's just a [TS]

  really hard problem that like the roads [TS]

  that I encounter everyday are filled [TS]

  with like weird little edge cases and [TS]

  weird conditions and not ideal [TS]

  conditions unmaintained portions or like [TS]

  vague things like am I supposed to be in [TS]

  that Lane to go over there or not like [TS]

  it's hard even for humans to navigate [TS]

  and so to make AI algorithms to to [TS]

  navigate these things is just really [TS]

  hard and I do think you know similar i [TS]

  do think it is possible i do think that [TS]

  we are making progress in that area and [TS]

  I do expect to see meaningful progress [TS]

  in that area within 10 to 20 years but I [TS]

  i really think it's not as close as a [TS]

  lot of people think just because it is [TS]

  so hard and that last mile of like you [TS]

  know making sure we can go on [TS]

  ninety-five percent of the roads is a [TS]

  heck of a lot easier than making sure [TS]

  that you can self drive on a hundred [TS]

  percent of the roads and then parking [TS]

  lots think of parking for cryin out loud [TS]

  how to find your way into the parking [TS]

  lots of which way you go in and out [TS]

  like you know like there's a little [TS]

  miniature road signs that aren't real [TS]

  road signs and the lines they paint in [TS]

  parking lots are almost meaningless and [TS]

  where do you go and are you know it's [TS]

  not that they would suddenly kill people [TS]

  in parking lots that would be more like [TS]

  electric car gridlock as they all are [TS]

  paralyzed by indecision about what the [TS]

  hell that's supposed to do we're [TS]

  supposed to go and thinking they arrive [TS]

  like this again what I'm thinking of is [TS]

  not the situation where the car can do [TS]

  the driving for you for a certain [TS]

  portion of time but the idea where you [TS]

  don't have to have a driver's license to [TS]

  get from place to place in a car you [TS]

  don't need a driver's license to get on [TS]

  the subway and get places right that's [TS]

  public transportation that's truly [TS]

  driverless as far as the passenger is [TS]

  concerned our bus or whatever greater [TS]

  there's somebody driving those foot in [TS]

  most cases are not always in trains [TS]

  because you can make trains driverless a [TS]

  lot easier because their tracks and [TS]

  everything but it's like to get to get [TS]

  the big winner of saying we are a [TS]

  society where I just types tab something [TS]

  on my phone and a magic personal asst [TS]

  the vehicle comes and I get in and the [TS]

  vehicle doesn't care whether have a [TS]

  license or have ever driven that just [TS]

  seems so close to some people like 35 [TS]

  years away surely and it just it just [TS]

  seems so incredibly far away to me [TS]

  because think of it you can do the [TS]

  extrapolation thing like in the sci-fi [TS]

  movies where they'll have a premise for [TS]

  a sci-fi movie that's for the purposes [TS]

  of the movie like this thing is possible [TS]

  but they never say well if it's possible [TS]

  to do this say making you know robots [TS]

  look just like humans that fool humans [TS]

  if it's possible to do that what else [TS]

  must be possible given that technology [TS]

  like what does it mean to have that talk [TS]

  technology so soft driving cars if [TS]

  you're able to get a car that can drive [TS]

  anywhere as well as it is a pretty good [TS]

  human what else month that must that [TS]

  mean in terms of the technology [TS]

  available like would be slavery to make [TS]

  that kind of intelligence drive a car if [TS]

  it truly is able to is their way to do [TS]

  that without being conscious and [TS]

  intelligent as as a human and ok gray [TS]

  understand like it's anyway [TS]

  don't hold your breath but you can have [TS]

  really awesome cruise control and can [TS]

  maybe take your hands off the wheel on [TS]

  the highway for a long time and maybe if [TS]

  you live in a major metropolitan area or [TS]

  silicon valley you don't have to have a [TS]

  license at all within similar city [TS]

  limits all perfectly possible but i [TS]

  would still bother to get your license [TS]

  because it will give you more freedom [TS]

  then the alternative until then i can [TS]

  temporarily take my hands off the wheel [TS]

  for three seconds while straight highway [TS]

  21 kappa tightly capped drink you know [TS]

  you say that but that is a that is a [TS]

  pretty nice change yeah I definitely [TS]

  done these squeeze that's that I've done [TS]

  squeezed between your thighs and hope [TS]

  you don't spill approach numerous times [TS]

  and a given my history I can tell you [TS]

  about how well that works out really [TS]

  quick to finish our follow-up an [TS]

  anonymous applecare senior advisor wrote [TS]

  in to tell us that applecare uses text [TS]

  expander was that was the impression I [TS]

  got from this email that's what you guys [TS]

  have gotten from it right [TS]

  it seemed like it was it was maybe not [TS]

  necessarily the official tool they use [TS]

  but that it was widely used and so that [TS]

  means that comes up as in terms of [TS]

  enterprise software people using a big [TS]

  call center so on and so forth and the [TS]

  other point this anonymous person [TS]

  brought up was the applecare prohibits [TS]

  the use of any third party sync service [TS]

  that could contain confidential or [TS]

  internal or customer data now I don't [TS]

  know [TS]

  textexpander sync service that qualifies [TS]

  for it was obviously customer data [TS]

  wouldn't be in there but maybe internal [TS]

  data like maybe part of your little [TS]

  snippets are contained internal [TS]

  proprietary data or whatever this is the [TS]

  tricky bit with enterprise software that [TS]

  a lot of people drop like texts and [TS]

  everyone's to go enterprise one of the [TS]

  first hurdle is going to be that [TS]

  Enterprise IT people always want to have [TS]

  everything in-house so I want to run my [TS]

  own sync server and all by piece of [TS]

  hardware and i'll put a server on it but [TS]

  I don't want my company's data going to [TS]

  your server sex offender because i have [TS]

  no idea what's going on your service and [TS]

  for compliance reasons and so on and so [TS]

  forth [TS]

  it has to all be internal so text [TS]

  expander will you please sell me an [TS]

  internal TextExpander sync server that i [TS]

  will run and text vendor as far as I [TS]

  know has not gone that far down the [TS]

  enterprise rabbit hole but if they want [TS]

  to keep customers like applecare and [TS]

  they're going to force everyone to use [TS]

  thinking because that's their your [TS]

  premier feature for enterprises they may [TS]

  have a man up having to do that [TS]

  our first concert tonight is hover hover [TS]

  is the best way to buy and manage domain [TS]

  names to hover com and use promo code [TS]

  alexa play fish for ten percent off your [TS]

  first purchase [TS]

  oh when you have a great idea you want a [TS]

  great domain name its catchy and [TS]

  memorable however gives you exactly what [TS]

  you need to find the perfect domain for [TS]

  your ideas you can get started actually [TS]

  working on it never gives you easy to [TS]

  use powerful tools to buy a managed [TS]

  domain so anyone can do it and support [TS]

  he was always ready if you need a hand [TS]

  however known for their no wait no hold [TS]

  no transfer phone service so when you [TS]

  call a real live human being is ready to [TS]

  help plus the great online tutorials and [TS]

  email support if you hate the phone like [TS]

  me now less than five minutes you can [TS]

  find the domain name you want and get it [TS]

  up and running with hover all you have [TS]

  to do a search for a few keywords and [TS]

  however will show you the best available [TS]

  options across all the crazy domain [TS]

  extensions out there now if you forever [TS]

  remain anywhere else you know that this [TS]

  can be a very unpleasant experience at [TS]

  other registrar's to make it very [TS]

  complicated or it may be a little bit [TS]

  scary feeling and you just want to get [TS]

  what you need and get out of there may [TS]

  be no they try to upsell you with crazy [TS]

  stuff that you're not really sure that [TS]

  you need [TS]

  they make you pay extra for things to [TS]

  upgrade that you think should come for [TS]

  free things like who is privacy [TS]

  however does not believe any of this [TS]

  stuff they don't believe in heavy-handed [TS]

  upselling and they don't believe in [TS]

  crappy designer making you feel scammed [TS]

  instead of charging you for something [TS]

  that should be their biggest include [TS]

  everything you need with your domain [TS]

  name you get a smart control panel who [TS]

  is privacy always for free and they even [TS]

  offer a free Valley transfer service you [TS]

  can skip the hassle trying to move a [TS]

  whole bunch of domains over there one [TS]

  that you have a whole bunch they will [TS]

  actually if you want to they will take [TS]

  your login information for your old [TS]

  record store and do the entire transfer [TS]

  for you and make sure that they get all [TS]

  the dns and everything so you don't [TS]

  break actually break anything so check [TS]

  it out today [TS]

  hover is great they have email hosting [TS]

  if you need that it you know very [TS]

  reasonable prices they are twenty bucks [TS]

  a year into a fully functional email [TS]

  account and remain with 10 gigs of [TS]

  storage you can pay more 29 bucks year [TS]

  for the big mailbox which is a full [TS]

  terabyte of storage and if you want to [TS]

  email forwarding just five bucks a year [TS]

  check this out today go to hover com and [TS]

  use promo code alexa play fish for ten [TS]

  percent off your first purchase thanks a [TS]

  lot to hover for sponsoring our show you [TS]

  are the trolius of all the trolls [TS]

  by the way we're getting some real-time [TS]

  follow-up from several different sources [TS]

  that says apple does have a site license [TS]

  for text expander so it is at least [TS]

  partially blessed from what I'm told [TS]

  in any case market wanted to tell us in [TS]

  your quest for more home automation or [TS]

  excuses to get more home automation sort [TS]

  of things tell us about your [TS]

  surveillance camera what is surveilling [TS]

  exactly ducks [TS]

  ok anything else you'd like to add is so [TS]

  last year we had a a duck that was [TS]

  laying eggs and nesting in our backyard [TS]

  and then the ducklings all hatched and [TS]

  they all got to the nearby hudson river [TS]

  and we actually found a few months later [TS]

  we finally kind of where they lived it [TS]

  sits near park that we sometimes go to [TS]

  and yeah they all seem to survive and [TS]

  pretty great so that came back this year [TS]

  to lay eggs in the same spot again I [TS]

  guess this is a thing ducks do once they [TS]

  find a good spot they'll come back the [TS]

  next year and lay more eggs there i [TS]

  ordered a whole bunch of home camera [TS]

  equipment IP camera equipment to watch [TS]

  the duck and to check on the duck and [TS]

  then if I can figure out a decent way to [TS]

  do it to possibly live broadcast the [TS]

  duck [TS]

  this is kind of another part of of my [TS]

  recent discovery that everything outside [TS]

  the apple ecosystem costs nothing and [TS]

  technology is amazing [TS]

  these days it's like tons of [TS]

  ridiculously like capable cheap hardware [TS]

  out there to do things that used to be [TS]

  really complicated or impossible so the [TS]

  way i have this working [TS]

  first of all my my Wi-Fi doesn't reach [TS]

  the backyard very well so the first [TS]

  thing i did was i ordered another [TS]

  wireless access point from ubiquity and [TS]

  i don't think i've talked about my [TS]

  ubiquity gear on the show yet have I not [TS]

  to my recollection so a couple of maybe [TS]

  a year and a half two years ago and have [TS]

  something like that my apple airport [TS]

  extreme started becoming flaky and this [TS]

  is a this makes me said the airport [TS]

  extreme is used to be rock-solid they [TS]

  used to be like the best route as you [TS]

  can get and these days [TS]

  not only have they fallen behind on a [TS]

  lot of the features and at then they [TS]

  were never amazing on the features but [TS]

  they were at least i think more [TS]

  competitive in the past but also i've [TS]

  had [TS]

  only mixed success with their [TS]

  reliability in the last maybe five years [TS]

  or so you're talking about the one that [TS]

  you gave me using that's the one you [TS]

  have trouble i think so great [TS]

  yep I mean well you know so far I'd say [TS]

  that but like my previous flat one last [TS]

  a really long time and I think what [TS]

  turned out to be wrong with it was the [TS]

  stupid power brick which really isn't [TS]

  the fault of the overall thing and it [TS]

  wasn't plugged into a surge strip so [TS]

  it's probably nobody's also i I've had [TS]

  very good luck with with the airports [TS]

  and the one that you gave me [TS]

  so if I'm gonna have a long enough to [TS]

  say one way or the other but so far it's [TS]

  been just as solid as all the other ones [TS]

  and i remember when you you're talking [TS]

  about getting this ubiquity gear Michael [TS]

  marcos found some way to spend more [TS]

  money on computer equipment is working [TS]

  surprise there but actually less money [TS]

  out there like that maybe um and I'm [TS]

  interested in a kind of but there I [TS]

  think the reason I keep coming back to [TS]

  the airport ones is because of all the [TS]

  integrations that I have with them and [TS]

  every time I look up how to do those [TS]

  integration with other things it just [TS]

  seems ever so slightly more complicated [TS]

  not much more complicated like oh and [TS]

  you know I want to hook my printer up to [TS]

  it to USB this one doesn't have a USB [TS]

  port but you can buy little dongle five [TS]

  dollars that lets you do that i'm sure [TS]

  that will work fine but if it doesn't [TS]

  you might have tried different dongle [TS]

  and you know does how do i connect to it [TS]

  don't have to come bring up somewhere [TS]

  web UI or to get to use the shiny apple [TS]

  airport whatever thing so i'm i'm still [TS]

  mostly open to the idea of sort of more [TS]

  reliable enterprise callable or router [TS]

  type equipment but i guess i need the [TS]

  apple stuff to be crappier first I think [TS]

  it really started to really start [TS]

  flaking out on me but so far I think I'd [TS]

  like three of them in my life and [TS]

  they've all lasted just until they [TS]

  really need to be replaced anyway and so [TS]

  far you told them pretty well tow good [TS]

  enjoy it with its fan silent silent fan [TS]

  or I'm old enough now that I can hear it [TS]

  let the eggs either way you win but yeah [TS]

  so the thing with you here is that first [TS]

  of all a huge warning there's a bit of a [TS]

  learning curve and there's some weird [TS]

  java based software that you have to [TS]

  install when you first set up a whack a [TS]

  wireless access point not the router the [TS]

  router come out cannot be done web-based [TS]

  but there [TS]

  matter does not include whack these are [TS]

  separate components like they originally [TS]

  long long ago used to always be so [TS]

  ubiquity stuff [TS]

  the components are all separate and [TS]

  there is a learning curve i would not [TS]

  recommend that you like you know tell [TS]

  your non-technical friends or relatives [TS]

  i'll just go out and buy the ubiquity [TS]

  gear no don't do that but if you listen [TS]

  to the show you could probably handle it [TS]

  you probably figure it out [TS]

  i I didn't have any trouble with it and [TS]

  I'm not you know I'm a computer nerd I'm [TS]

  a programmer but I'm not like a [TS]

  networking gear expert but a lot of [TS]

  things that can do that i just don't [TS]

  enable and don't do the the java [TS]

  software that manages the installation [TS]

  of the laps if you don't do a lot of [TS]

  crazy features you don't need to run [TS]

  that software continuously where you're [TS]

  running it [TS]

  do you run it on where is it where they [TS]

  run continuously on one of your clients [TS]

  on the router on the access point [TS]

  understand where it's running any [TS]

  computer so it can rate you know it's [TS]

  java-based there's a mac version so when [TS]

  i installed i have on my laptop so i [TS]

  want to put job my desktops but so i [TS]

  have it on my laptop where I put [TS]

  software that i don't but i don't [TS]

  necessarily trust like crazy chinese [TS]

  jailbreak apps and Java which are [TS]

  categorized together at and anyway some [TS]

  people running on like linux cloud [TS]

  service you can like running online [TS]

  interpreters and you have to be in your [TS]

  network necessarily i'd i haven't gotten [TS]

  that advance with it but it doesn't [TS]

  really matter anyway so you set this [TS]

  stuff up and once you set it up you [TS]

  basically don't have to touch it and [TS]

  also once you set it up things like [TS]

  because of this dot camera setup thing i [TS]

  wanted to expand my Wi-Fi coverage to [TS]

  more than one access point and apple [TS]

  made this easy in the past to you know I [TS]

  recognize that but ubiquity makes it it [TS]

  possibly even easier that you basically [TS]

  plug in the access point you just add it [TS]

  to the network with like two clicks and [TS]

  then it's just part of the network and [TS]

  it brought and so any changes you make [TS]

  to the Wi-Fi network to if you want to [TS]

  change the password anything it [TS]

  propagates like it its you just have to [TS]

  manage one network and it applies to all [TS]

  the access points are on it really [TS]

  advanced features here [TS]

  it features that i am not even qualified [TS]

  to describe because i said i'm not a pro [TS]

  network engineer so I i don't i don't [TS]

  know everything these things can do I [TS]

  don't appreciate everything these things [TS]

  can do but i do know that they compete [TS]

  eat apparently very well against [TS]

  high-end cisco routers and and other [TS]

  like you know super high-end [TS]

  enterprise-grade stuff but it's really [TS]

  surprisingly cheap so the a Wi-Fi access [TS]

  point is usually around a hundred bucks [TS]

  and when you get it you know in that [TS]

  range and the the router is you know [TS]

  just as dedicated little box that [TS]

  doesn't have wireless itself it's just a [TS]

  router the router that i get it i have [TS]

  the the ER light 3-2 edge router like [TS]

  three and i think that's like 80 or 90 [TS]

  bucks so if you're looking at total of [TS]

  about 200 bucks to get a router plus a [TS]

  decent access point and it is just [TS]

  awesome it is solid the gear so far I've [TS]

  had no problems I've never had to reboot [TS]

  it [TS]

  I have once or twice rebooted it because [TS]

  I thought it might be the cause of a [TS]

  problem and that but it just wasn't like [TS]

  I recruited and it came back up and [TS]

  problem-solving ago [TS]

  that's right it was the finest problem [TS]

  so it's so I there has literally never [TS]

  been a problem that i have traced to [TS]

  this routing gear and it's never been a [TS]

  problem that rebooting fixed its it is [TS]

  just rock solid and i know i'm not the [TS]

  only one because you look at the reviews [TS]

  of the all the ubiquity gear and it also [TS]

  it's all just stellar [TS]

  people love this stuff and the only [TS]

  complaint people have is learning curve [TS]

  and that java software to set up the [TS]

  lapse and that's it [TS]

  if you can get past those things is just [TS]

  awesome how many how many different [TS]

  ports on the dresser [TS]

  it's it's not really made to be like a [TS]

  built-in switch like because it's like [TS]

  every it's like if you ever set up like [TS]

  a pfsense router and put that like I [TS]

  think it has three or four ports on it [TS]

  maybe three but they're all separate [TS]

  interfaces so you could like have like [TS]

  two inbound connections and you can [TS]

  bridge them or you couldn't you can load [TS]

  balance between them instead you can [TS]

  configure it how you want but for most [TS]

  cases you're only going to want to use [TS]

  one in one out and then you and I have a [TS]

  separate little HP switch next to it [TS]

  that's the other category of software or [TS]

  hardware that I have you talked about [TS]

  USB hubs and now it's hard to find good [TS]

  ones or like driving closures or [TS]

  whatever my latest not a white whale are [TS]

  my latest the thing to battle is network [TS]

  switches XP done i'm telling HP switches [TS]

  are awesome but do they make a my big [TS]

  thing is heat and power supply noise [TS]

  blade or not the 1i have a feeling about [TS]

  the show it's a little tiny 8-port [TS]

  gigabit one it is not like a full-size [TS]

  one I don't think there's any fan and I [TS]

  don't think there's room for one the HP [TS]

  procurve 1410 dash 8 g now that I [TS]

  switched all the stuff like maybe a year [TS]

  and a half two years ago and I've really [TS]

  just had zero problems with the network [TS]

  since then and I i really cannot [TS]

  recommend ubiquity gear enough if you [TS]

  are a geek enough to be willing to set [TS]

  that up so you we somehow ended up on [TS]

  this in talking about the camera so you [TS]

  said you had started looking into it was [TS]

  you we we had you had started looking [TS]

  into broadcasting the dock to the [TS]

  internet and you decided to abandon that [TS]

  or at least temporarily abandon it [TS]

  so you know I wanted to have some kind [TS]

  of live webcam kind of thing IP camera [TS]

  kind of thing looking at the duck nest [TS]

  area both for potential future live [TS]

  broadcasting to nobody in the internet [TS]

  and also just for like me and Tiffany [TS]

  like you know take our phones and check [TS]

  out his is the dark outside the Ducks [TS]

  outside you know maybe we won't let the [TS]

  dog out yet or we just want to know like [TS]

  when it has the dot-com last night when [TS]

  was the duck here [TS]

  did any raccoons try to eat the duck so [TS]

  I set up this camera and you know you on [TS]

  amazon you try to find an IP camera and [TS]

  there's just a billion of them [TS]

  hi it is really hard to figure out like [TS]

  what makes a good IP camera so the one I [TS]

  got is the tree is a try vision on [TS]

  amazon it was very highly rated it's [TS]

  okay they the colors on it suck but the [TS]

  resolution is decent has built in Wi-Fi [TS]

  built-in web server and all this crazy [TS]

  garbage like ftp server and SD card slot [TS]

  and you can upload to an ass if you want [TS]

  to its it just crazy and it's of course [TS]

  outdoor capable and what makes you think [TS]

  super easy is not only does it support [TS]

  Wi-Fi which is one reason i was trying [TS]

  to sell my Wi-Fi network bye-bye more [TS]

  ubiquity here looks as well how about a [TS]

  topic the person it is [TS]

  yes yes yes that's right it's a look at [TS]

  one of these APIs cameras it has it has [TS]

  Wi-Fi most of them to only [TS]

  yep how everything over ethernet or even [TS]

  worse just ethernet and power separately [TS]

  but this one has all those things you [TS]

  can do PE you can and power reason it is [TS]

  also very awesome you have internet in [TS]

  and you have a little AC adapter and [TS]

  then out you have just ethernet with [TS]

  power on the unused pins of it it allows [TS]

  you to run just one cable to things that [TS]

  need that can take the power reason it [TS]

  and then that can then supply power and [TS]

  data to them so it's often used for IP [TS]

  cameras also often used for wireless [TS]

  access points and all the biggies [TS]

  wireless access points do this and they [TS]

  usually come with a little injector that [TS]

  you need you can have a wireless access [TS]

  point somewhere in a ceiling or up on a [TS]

  wall wherever and you only run one cable [TS]

  and that cable can be as long or short [TS]

  as an ethernet cable needs to be and can [TS]

  be so you can have a very long cable [TS]

  that you just have one thing to and you [TS]

  have power and data in that one cable [TS]

  it's great so that's right it's with the [TS]

  with the camera i originally ran over [TS]

  Wi-Fi [TS]

  it was kind of cutting out and wasn't [TS]

  correct quite great deal i didn't have [TS]

  the second access point yet it was it [TS]

  was there was a shipping delay on it [TS]

  because everybody's buying these things [TS]

  all at once so I ran power reset to it [TS]

  using a powerline adapter kit to get [TS]

  outside in the first place so this is [TS]

  this is all this massive pile of complex [TS]

  technology home powerline networking [TS]

  running into a power of power over [TS]

  ethernet injector that spans ethernet [TS]

  cable across my patio that into a camera [TS]

  that is showing a picture of my dog live [TS]

  to my desktop and recording on this [TS]

  motion all this stuff was like a total [TS]

  of a couple hundred dollars and it does [TS]

  these amazing things of showing me live [TS]

  video the duck my backyard without a [TS]

  whole lot of wiring without a whole lot [TS]

  of effort and in pretty impressive [TS]

  quality know what are you using to do [TS]

  the motion detection and recording that [TS]

  part is less pleasant [TS]

  this is the the area of surveillance [TS]

  type software like any kind of software [TS]

  that can back and display IP camera [TS]

  feeds and record them and possibly [TS]

  detect motion on them and save them in [TS]

  certain conditions this is not a great [TS]

  area of software there's very few [TS]

  choices the choices that are out there [TS]

  seemed not amazing and I'm not gonna [TS]

  name names in case someone listens who [TS]

  writes one you can just assume i didn't [TS]

  find yours they're there they're not [TS]

  great but these are great software [TS]

  packages and then I i briefly looked [TS]

  into what would I do if I wanted to [TS]

  stream this the internet and one way to [TS]

  do it is the camera itself has it built [TS]

  in our something MP whatever protocol is [TS]

  like the streaming protocol for this [TS]

  video it has a built-in server for that [TS]

  but hey i don't think it can really take [TS]

  a whole bunch connections at once and be [TS]

  i don't really want to have everybody [TS]

  hitting my home IP directly I'd rather [TS]

  like relayed through a server somewhere [TS]

  and then that provides both a level of [TS]

  interaction for the home IP as well as a [TS]

  capacity like to you know similar to how [TS]

  we went we broadcast the show live [TS]

  I'm bouncing this off of my webserver my [TS]

  market or web server because that way [TS]

  that is connected to this giant Internet [TS]

  backbone that relays the audio to [TS]

  everybody in a way fat way higher [TS]

  capacity method than what i can do from [TS]

  my house [TS]

  the options to do that for video seemed [TS]

  pretty slim and usually have Enterprise [TS]

  pricing call us and you know if you need [TS]

  more than one live you were a time you [TS]

  need to call us or well that'll be three [TS]

  thousand dollars please [TS]

  or you know someone crazy crazy money to [TS]

  do these things [TS]

  many of them are like entire video [TS]

  platforms where if you you want to live [TS]

  if you want to transfer translate from [TS]

  your or whatever MP video stream to a to [TS]

  a video feed online people can just go [TS]

  to and see all that that will use this [TS]

  crazy software package and cost [TS]

  thousands of dollars and call surprising [TS]

  it's kind of a mess i did find YouTube [TS]

  live streaming it seems it's kind of [TS]

  like periscope and that like you can do [TS]

  a live broadcast but then it wants to [TS]

  like then save that as a video on your [TS]

  account so it probably doesn't want the [TS]

  live broadcast like a month-long that [TS]

  probably won't work and then to get to [TS]

  get youtube another pilot acts where you [TS]

  have to use the open broadcasting [TS]

  whatever whatever whatever called the [TS]

  OBS yeah the open market server that [TS]

  like all the gamers use [TS]

  we have to use OBS [TS]

  to window capture something that's [TS]

  viewing the IP camera like a browser [TS]

  window or something and then rebroadcast [TS]

  to youtube live so this is like if I'm [TS]

  gonna do this we're gonna actually live [TS]

  broadcast this it's gonna basically [TS]

  require like a computer dedicated to [TS]

  this task 24-7 or as long as live [TS]

  broadcasting and I just don't want to do [TS]

  that I don't have a lot of extra [TS]

  computers to dedicate to that and I just [TS]

  don't I don't see more of it [TS]

  did you look into this has nothing to do [TS]

  with live broadcasting but just for your [TS]

  own viewing did you look into [TS]

  surveillance station on your Synology I [TS]

  did but the the list of cameras that it [TS]

  takes did not include the 1i got and [TS]

  including any of the ones that seemed [TS]

  highly rated on amazon right now and [TS]

  also my synology the only i use almost [TS]

  none of the software on it because the [TS]

  only drive i really value my have [TS]

  formatted on this technology in its own [TS]

  native format is my time machine volume [TS]

  because it's that the synology time [TS]

  machine server is awesome it's way more [TS]

  solid in my experience then any Apple [TS]

  time machine from implementation and use [TS]

  I think of some kind of open source time [TS]

  machine thing that they built into that [TS]

  but it is way more solid than direct [TS]

  attacks disc has ever been for me and we [TS]

  were solved then then a time machine [TS]

  server on a mac mini or time machine [TS]

  action are just running on an airport [TS]

  extreme it whatever package technology [TS]

  uses for their time machine server [TS]

  I never hit problems with like oh it ran [TS]

  out of space and have to format the [TS]

  whole thing to actually make time [TS]

  machine resume it never errors out H it [TS]

  is just it just works and i have disk [TS]

  quota set so that me and tiff share one [TS]

  volume its i'm amazed it works as well [TS]

  as it does given my experience with [TS]

  other time machine options but it works [TS]

  great [TS]

  anyway my psychologist formats such that [TS]

  the time machine volume on there is no [TS]

  negative 1 all the rest of it is one [TS]

  giant iscsi volume so the types of this [TS]

  technology can't see it's just like you [TS]

  know dumb box to the technology so that [TS]

  I can't I don't really want to devote my [TS]

  time machine space to this so i haven't [TS]

  done that yet [TS]

  well I ask because my dad set up an IP [TS]

  camera with power over ethernet at his [TS]

  house to point in his driveway [TS]

  and has an ancient ipad just sitting [TS]

  there streaming it in his office so we [TS]

  can see when if people are coming up to [TS]

  the house and he using surveillance [TS]

  station on the ipad the other the app [TS]

  for the iPad he uses it on this [TS]

  technology and really really has had [TS]

  wonderful things to say about it i've [TS]

  seen it although i've not played with it [TS]

  and it looks really solid to me and it [TS]

  will leave in like send emails when it [TS]

  detects motion with like a screen [TS]

  capture it looks really really good if [TS]

  it doesn't work with your camera there's [TS]

  nothing you can really do about that and [TS]

  obviously you've made different choices [TS]

  with regard to your volume set up but if [TS]

  anyone else is listening and has a [TS]

  synology I've heard very very good [TS]

  things about surveillance station can [TS]

  also just kind of sounds creepy [TS]

  oh you know I'm gonna set up [TS]

  surveillance station in my house [TS]

  yeah well there's that you don't respect [TS]

  the privacy of your ducks know who knows [TS]

  what they could be doing there are we [TS]

  filming them 24 hours a day to be fair [TS]

  it's only it's only one duck and so far [TS]

  for potential future ducks [TS]

  yeah i think though I brought you tacos [TS]

  up here like where I can't wait to look [TS]

  at marcos duck am now just sounds like [TS]

  there's not going to be a duck camp so I [TS]

  guess what people are gonna have to [TS]

  settle for is like the highlights like [TS]

  when something eventful happens like [TS]

  that the extra something in you you [TS]

  catch that then you can pull that clip [TS]

  and then put that up on YouTube inside [TS]

  here the hit here's the the exciting [TS]

  part with the eggs hatch or the exciting [TS]

  part when the record company somewhat by [TS]

  hoppes doesn't follow the eggs hospices [TS]

  is a terrible hunter and if you give him [TS]

  a treat and it falls between his legs or [TS]

  behind him he can't find it [TS]

  his brain is the size of all not given [TS]

  break and get his little shorts just two [TS]

  nodes so like you know he's not doesn't [TS]

  have the greatest sense of smell but [TS]

  they look at you and say you did this to [TS]

  me [TS]

  selective breeding I used to be a wolf [TS]

  and not look at me very sausage [TS]

  he was never a wolf what if whatever [TS]

  helps came from he could he's never [TS]

  without a wolf long ago his ancestors [TS]

  very sausage oh my goodness [TS]

  your sponsor tonight by blue apron and a [TS]

  blue apron calm / ATP to get your first [TS]

  two meals for free [TS]

  you need to know how to cook and not [TS]

  only should you know your way around a [TS]

  kitchen cooking at home means eating [TS]

  healthier and saving money instead of [TS]

  ordering expensive unhealthy takeout [TS]

  every night where you start [TS]

  blue apron has you covered for less than [TS]

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  all the fresh ingredients you need to [TS]

  create home-cooked meals just follow the [TS]

  easy step-by-step instructions for each [TS]

  recipe with pictures of every step right [TS]

  on the recipe cards and many more online [TS]

  how to videos to teach you any [TS]

  fundamentals and techniques may not be [TS]

  familiar with each meal could be [TS]

  prepared in 40 minutes or less and comes [TS]

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  out every girl loves your dietary [TS]

  preferences they make it a breeze to [TS]

  discover and prepare dishes right in [TS]

  your kitchen this week we have things [TS]

  like fish piccata with fresh pasta and [TS]

  pink lemon and teriyaki steak with [TS]

  peanut dipping sauce jasmine rice and [TS]

  baby bok choy and recipes are between [TS]

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  delicious and good for you right now you [TS]

  can get your first two meals for free at [TS]

  blue apron calm / ATP that's blue apron [TS]

  calm / ATP and islets they personally [TS]

  we've been bleep and customers for many [TS]

  months before they sponsored our show I [TS]

  think we've been with him for about a [TS]

  year now and it we are still with them [TS]

  when we don't get it for free like we [TS]

  pay for it because the fuck are counted [TS]

  before this partnership we pay for its [TS]

  great and we're gonna keep doing it [TS]

  because it not only is it great to not [TS]

  have to decide what to cook every night [TS]

  for the family but it also really is [TS]

  making us better cooks like now even [TS]

  like we don't we don't we have them [TS]

  three nights a week and for the other [TS]

  night of the week now I'm a way better [TS]

  cook than I was before we started way [TS]

  better and I i have techniques I've [TS]

  never done before [TS]

  I'm more comfortable cooking ingredients [TS]

  and cuisines I've never was never [TS]

  comfortable before so I we really had a [TS]

  good time with Raven is a little [TS]

  different tonight too [TS]

  we still we didn't get like a free trial [TS]

  as part of the sponsorship and the free [TS]

  trial ended and i kept paying for like [TS]

  now I'm just a regular customer [TS]

  same here Mike most the most exciting [TS]

  thing for me still is there's a [TS]

  different me like I haven't I guess they [TS]

  repeat after a year because markets been [TS]

  at it for the year and they start to [TS]

  repeat but I [TS]

  I have had zero repeats like it's it's a [TS]

  different meal every single time which [TS]

  for someone who's old entire like I'm [TS]

  like you eventually get a repertoire of [TS]

  meals that you like or that your family [TS]

  likes or whatever and just the [TS]

  excitement to have a different thing [TS]

  every single time which sometimes we [TS]

  made repeats by the way you get to keep [TS]

  the recipe cards sometimes I'll have one [TS]

  that I like and we will make that on our [TS]

  own just buy the ingredients ourselves [TS]

  so we've been like manually done repeats [TS]

  but just know that it's you know it's [TS]

  always something different and we're not [TS]

  particularly adventurous eater so this [TS]

  kind of forces us to be slightly [TS]

  adventurous we still didn't you know you [TS]

  get to pick what your preferences are so [TS]

  we still didn't pick any weird stuff [TS]

  that we know we're not going to like but [TS]

  anyway it has a more often it's it's [TS]

  nice to to be surprised every week about [TS]

  what's going to come check it out [TS]

  blueprint com / ATP blue apron a better [TS]

  way to cook [TS]

  alright so it was last week that Apple [TS]

  turn 40 if I have my crawled ecology [TS]

  right whenever it may have been Apple [TS]

  turn 40 and John you had some thoughts [TS]

  about this would you like to share [TS]

  now we missed it by two weeks i think [TS]

  but yeah I have all I think april first [TS]

  it was founded because they're just a [TS]

  bunch of jokesters those two Steve's and [TS]

  a lot of people did applet 40 stories [TS]

  talking about their history of apple or [TS]

  whatever and it's such a big topic I [TS]

  didn't really know how to address it [TS]

  especially with you too Maggie come [TS]

  lately so whatever you want to call you [TS]

  if you came on for later but I'd i think [TS]

  it's worth at 40 is a nice round number [TS]

  i think it's worth at least reflecting [TS]

  on the the first 40 years of apple and [TS]

  any kind of sort of like for you when [TS]

  you look at it what stands out in your [TS]

  memory as important whether you were [TS]

  involved an apple or not and have all [TS]

  your memories are only from like 2004 on [TS]

  that's fine but i figure it's worth [TS]

  taking this time to look back and think [TS]

  about what you know what what important [TS]

  things apples that's kind of like when [TS]

  is a great way to put it like when you [TS]

  like a celebrity or something dies and [TS]

  they have their obituaries like the [TS]

  first couple sentences of the obituary [TS]

  you know kind of have the highlights and [TS]

  so apples not dead and we're not trying [TS]

  to write an obituary for but we can look [TS]

  back on the first 40 years and say what [TS]

  were the most important thing [TS]

  that happened there to you personally [TS]

  not just like we're not gonna say like [TS]

  well you know it's important for the [TS]

  history of computing XYZ but to you [TS]

  personally what do you think was a what [TS]

  weighs heavily on your mind when you [TS]

  think of the first 40 years of apple now [TS]

  you know my experience with Apple was [TS]

  probably very similar to many people my [TS]

  age in that I experienced it [TS]

  Max and I guess the apple to at school [TS]

  and that was it until much later in my [TS]

  life and so my earliest memories of [TS]

  Apple were playing oregon trail like so [TS]

  many kids my age did I also vividly [TS]

  remember when i was in i believe middle [TS]

  school I was already showing an affinity [TS]

  and a love for computers and i ended up [TS]

  being like kind of a volunteer like pee [TS]

  on for the computer lab administrator [TS]

  and they were running some flavor of Mac [TS]

  I'm sorry John and Stephen Hackett I [TS]

  couldn't tell you what kind of mac it [TS]

  was but they were running max and i [TS]

  remember vividly like being able to help [TS]

  out and i think i have like some [TS]

  super-secret like administrative [TS]

  password that they trusted with the [TS]

  middle schooler for some stupid reason [TS]

  and I couldn't really do much with it [TS]

  but i thought i was so cool because of [TS]

  it and the thing that sticks out in my [TS]

  mind even to this day like 20 years [TS]

  later is we all had to like buy a floppy [TS]

  disk or one of the three and a half inch [TS]

  disk so wasn't even floppy but anyway we [TS]

  are divided floppy disk and we would [TS]

  store all of our you know school [TS]

  documents on it because that was more [TS]

  than enough room for years with school [TS]

  documents and I remember someone had [TS]

  shown me or somehow I figured out how to [TS]

  set the icon for the disk so when you [TS]

  put the disc into the mac in any mac it [TS]

  would like it instead of being a regular [TS]

  grey icon or whatever it was by default [TS]

  mine would be like really bright blue or [TS]

  something like that or maybe it was an [TS]

  entirely different icon altogether blue [TS]

  disc stood yea trained exactly hits [TS]

  remember figuring out how to do that and [TS]

  oh my [TS]

  god I thought I was hot stuff because my [TS]

  disk when it was on the desktop look [TS]

  different than everyone else's aren't I [TS]

  a badass and I just remembered that so [TS]

  vividly and I have some other memories [TS]

  but but they're more of like modern era [TS]

  so Marco let me give you and then John [TS]

  as well a chance to kind of cover the [TS]

  the the let's call it the pre-2000 era [TS]

  right before you move on [TS]

  what does your hard disk icon looking [TS]

  like right now on your Mac oh it's not [TS]

  on my desktop in the one in finders [TS]

  whatever the default is what happened [TS]

  you were you were there you were blue [TS]

  disc stud and it and the same exact you [TS]

  could do the same feature has lived on [TS]

  through the various versions of the mac [TS]

  operating system to today or you can do [TS]

  it [TS]

  probably an even easier way that you did [TS]

  back then depending on how far actually [TS]

  was probably the same way because you're [TS]

  not that old i think it was about the [TS]

  same way was like get info and then you [TS]

  just drag competition just copy and [TS]

  paste right yeah maybe that's what was [TS]

  used to be more difficult they added [TS]

  that the copy and paste feature in a [TS]

  later version of that conversation [TS]

  either way I'm excited that you did that [TS]

  like that that's definitely a Mac user [TS]

  kind of thing to do like that you want [TS]

  your thing to look nice and you can do [TS]

  it and as you noted it's not as if well [TS]

  I wouldn't say it look nice i'm sure was [TS]

  god awful hideous but it was mine and as [TS]

  you noted [TS]

  it's not as if that was just a change on [TS]

  your computer he brought us to any mac [TS]

  that they would honor it [TS]

  you should be doing that I all of my [TS]

  hard drives have been named fancifully [TS]

  and have had custom icons do the same [TS]

  thing for most of my folders back in the [TS]

  day although now that the finder is my [TS]

  enemy that doesn't well but this is [TS]

  still battle in this way there are many [TS]

  like it but this one is mine [TS]

  I also rocked the standard disc and it [TS]

  also is no desktop haha oh goodness [TS]

  alright so Marco what was your like [TS]

  let's say up until high school [TS]

  experience with the mac it actually [TS]

  wasn't the mac it was the Apple to the [TS]

  fair enough fair enough [TS]

  and this might sound more impressive [TS]

  than it was because my first experience [TS]

  the Apple to was around nineteen ninety [TS]

  maybe it [TS]

  it's okay it was you know already what [TS]

  12 years old something by then right [TS]

  nice so it my experience was I was I [TS]

  went to a very poor and not very like [TS]

  scientifically advanced elementary [TS]

  school so the the computers they had [TS]

  they did have computers they had one [TS]

  computer lab that had maybe I don't know [TS]

  15 computers in it and they were all old [TS]

  donated Apple tues by the time i was it [TS]

  maybe fifth sixth grade so what is that [TS]

  like if I was born 82 when is that like [TS]

  91 and you something like that we [TS]

  roughly and I just play games on them [TS]

  like did you see oregon trail [TS]

  I'm not gonna try to say my version of [TS]

  how to pronounce that state name i know [TS]

  i'm gonna get it wrong also but I is [TS]

  pronounced worcester yeah it was the [TS]

  trail it's it's either oregon or again [TS]

  is the only two ways i've ever heard it [TS]

  I'm gonna use either of those anyway so [TS]

  God but it's so played that you know [TS]

  another you know math lectures and the [TS]

  other like you know games that were [TS]

  supposed to be educational that weren't [TS]

  really and had fun with that in seventh [TS]

  grade my friends and I he was a mac nerd [TS]

  at the time and he this was in like [TS]

  nineteen ninety-five or something he had [TS]

  a laptop in class all the time as a [TS]

  seventh-grader what's so they were some [TS]

  kind of arrangement he had with the [TS]

  school with his parents in school that [TS]

  he was allowed to have a laptop for a [TS]

  learning disability of some kind [TS]

  I don't details anyway he had a laptop [TS]

  and we would program on on that and I [TS]

  kind of learned basic and then there was [TS]

  this Apple two in the back of the room [TS]

  and you know it is like we just move [TS]

  around because it was some kind of [TS]

  whatever mac laptop would have been [TS]

  somewhat current in 1995 [TS]

  it was great i don't know we play on [TS]

  that he had real basic on there we play [TS]

  a real basic on that and then in the [TS]

  back of the room there's ancient Apple [TS]

  to that no one else in the class knew [TS]

  what to do with except me and him so we [TS]

  would deal with stupid things like we [TS]

  would like make it right a for loop to [TS]

  place and just leave you know it's [TS]

  really kind of course like infinite [TS]

  loops and you know try to show a little [TS]

  graphics on there and stuff and kind of [TS]

  mess around and then he really is [TS]

  the after that I I kind of didn't use [TS]

  Apple computers for a long time because [TS]

  i never had one for that whole time and [TS]

  it was until after college I got one and [TS]

  that whole time Apple computers were [TS]

  seen as like kind of a tragedy if you [TS]

  had one because it was like oh well you [TS]

  know all of us were over here like [TS]

  playing are awesome pc games and [TS]

  everything and then [TS]

  oh that guy oh he he just has he has a [TS]

  mac and it was kinda like oh hehe can't [TS]

  play any good games and we kind of feel [TS]

  bad for him because he has the mac this [TS]

  that's him that's remember about [TS]

  politics the tragedy if you had one and [TS]

  that you played with the Apple to be a [TS]

  before before i got my own in in 2004 [TS]

  yeah I guess I mean I guess that makes [TS]

  more sense than kc story where he saw [TS]

  the the max and the cool disk icon and [TS]

  yet you didn't really they didn't make [TS]

  enough of an impression on you two for [TS]

  you to 2% I guess you had your your IBM [TS]

  father that was really going to prevent [TS]

  you from ever getting into max until yes [TS]

  no I'm it wasn't I don't think he ever [TS]

  would have necessarily actively [TS]

  prevented it but there were always [TS]

  thinkpads just hanging out around the [TS]

  house and I had a laptop or desktop [TS]

  since I can remember [TS]

  now granted they were all typically very [TS]

  old and out of date but they were mine [TS]

  and and I didn't share them with anyone [TS]

  and so I grew up on predominantly [TS]

  thinkpads and nothing about the mac ever [TS]

  really called to me like I respected [TS]

  that that little bit of customization I [TS]

  thought that was cool i remember vaguely [TS]

  trying to like skin windows XP look like [TS]

  a Mac from time to time like I would get [TS]

  this this kick would get on this kick to [TS]

  to try to fake like the Apple menu at [TS]

  the top of the screen and in some of the [TS]

  icons to make them look like a Mac just [TS]

  because I thought it looked good and [TS]

  inevitably I will always regret that [TS]

  because it just what was a total utter [TS]

  hack but no wasn't until far later which [TS]

  we can get to when we get to the 2004 to [TS]

  the knots that i really started thinking [TS]

  about the mac again you to her to people [TS]

  i probably would not have been able to [TS]

  convince that the mac [TS]

  was the amazing thing that that it was [TS]

  because you were just note so content [TS]

  with your weird worlds bc is now so the [TS]

  early early apple for me like I mean I [TS]

  did you use Apple tues and stuff like [TS]

  that Apple tues or not that exciting for [TS]

  me they didn't seem I mean having call [TS]

  upon my Commodores and stuff like that [TS]

  the Apple to seem like a natural [TS]

  progression there and it was fine but [TS]

  did not make much of an impression [TS]

  especially probably because most of the [TS]

  Apple tues we had at school or like [TS]

  monochrome display it just you know [TS]

  character mode programs maybe a couple [TS]

  of games you could even call them that [TS]

  eventually there was like 2 GS and stuff [TS]

  about on TGS was in play in the school's [TS]

  I the mac already company so that that [TS]

  the big thing about the mac for me that [TS]

  people who missed this air [TS]

  people who missed this air [TS]

  I don't understand is that it was the [TS]

  computer that made the statement that [TS]

  with graphical interface GUI was the way [TS]

  that we should use computers it wasn't [TS]

  the first gooey but it was so far and [TS]

  away the best one ever sold in a [TS]

  computer that regular people could buy [TS]

  or oversold anyone really and it's big [TS]

  statement was hey guys stop typing a [TS]

  command prompts do this instead and the [TS]

  entirety of the computer world said no I [TS]

  don't we don't want that [TS]

  that's not a real computer that's stupid [TS]

  it you can't do anything with it it [TS]

  looks ugly it's pointless [TS]

  you need to have a command prompt I [TS]

  don't know what the hell you're doing [TS]

  over there apple and even though this [TS]

  was a short period of time historically [TS]

  speaking for the transition for the [TS]

  whole world to figure it out when we [TS]

  were in the middle of it it seemed like [TS]

  the Battle of the century with the [TS]

  people on the good light side the mac [TS]

  users not one being able to understand [TS]

  how anyone could argue against this is [TS]

  it wasn't as if they were arguing [TS]

  windows is better or some other GU is [TS]

  better their argument was the GUI is [TS]

  dumb that you should not use a GUI is a [TS]

  waste of computing resources and makes [TS]

  the computer less powerful it will never [TS]

  catch on [TS]

  it is a pointless diversion it's a bad [TS]

  and you should feel bad about using that [TS]

  computer and stop distracting me and you [TS]

  have to get your own magazines and I'm [TS]

  never gonna hook up Mouse to my computer [TS]

  and all that other stuff and to grow up [TS]

  in that environment kind of like if you [TS]

  grew up in the sort of the the second [TS]

  antenna console wars was just such a [TS]

  huge dividing line and this in the same [TS]

  way that I imagine for people who are [TS]

  not computer and sports teams might be [TS]

  dividing line if you grew up in like [TS]

  mets vs yankees or whatever year your [TS]

  sports rivalry is is just imprinted in [TS]

  your DNA as a super important thing and [TS]

  eventually a transition to okay fine so [TS]

  GU is a reasonable idea but now windows [TS]

  is better than the mac or whatever and [TS]

  that became you know the mac vs pc thing [TS]

  which was another form of tragedy [TS]

  my original abiding memory of the mac is [TS]

  essentially trying to convince other [TS]

  computer nerdy people kids and adults [TS]

  the GUI itself was a good idea and the [TS]

  end that you know just try convincing [TS]

  something like I need you know what has [TS]

  that argument anymore because no one [TS]

  ever are using it because it seems [TS]

  ridiculous i thought it was ridiculous [TS]

  than two and yet people had arguments [TS]

  and you could not convince them because [TS]

  all they knew was the command line and [TS]

  they had what they thought were really [TS]

  solid arguments about like how much more [TS]

  efficient is to memorize the commands [TS]

  inward star than it is to like bring [TS]

  your mouth up to menu was like you you [TS]

  know you're not getting its not on a [TS]

  micro-level thing a macro level thing is [TS]

  and this helps people use computers like [TS]

  the idea that every computer was going [TS]

  to work this way inevitably there's [TS]

  nothing you could do about it and they [TS]

  were like every computer are you kidding [TS]

  me [TS]

  so that is my sort of my core memory in [TS]

  the d inside-out parlance of the [TS]

  earliest core memory [TS]

  I'm Apple was going and I would say to [TS]

  this day the sort of cohesive pneus of [TS]

  the original Matt GUI the only thing it [TS]

  has been matched by I think are probably [TS]

  appliance like devices and iOS because [TS]

  there's never been another personal [TS]

  computer operating systems including Mac [TS]

  os10 that has so fully committed to the [TS]

  graphical user interface to providing [TS]

  sort of a coherent consistent world of [TS]

  the computer in which it wasn't an [TS]

  abstraction or a shell on top of [TS]

  something that as far as the user is [TS]

  concerned there was nothing underneath [TS]

  there was no way to get underneath there [TS]

  was no terminal there was no there was [TS]

  no command line there was no there were [TS]

  no filesystem paths visible anywhere in [TS]

  the user interface you know it if you [TS]

  asked a Mac user what the path separator [TS]

  was on their operating system personally [TS]

  don't pass separator as if you were [TS]

  explaining to them they would have no [TS]

  idea that the colon is used internally [TS]

  because you just never ever sought same [TS]

  thing with the files and folders and [TS]

  icons the idea that files and folders [TS]

  represented you know this little picture [TS]

  represents your file and this little [TS]

  picture represents a directory none of [TS]

  those things represented anything they [TS]

  were the thing [TS]

  there was no in direction it was just so [TS]

  so incredibly consistent in the same way [TS]

  that if you were to ask someone like [TS]

  where is the you know the instagram app [TS]

  like oh this little icon represents the [TS]

  Instagram no they did not that is the [TS]

  Instagram when I delete that incident [TS]

  has gone and what is their the insert I [TS]

  have the answer map like that is so [TS]

  solid and there's no command line and on [TS]

  iOS and there is no way you can see file [TS]

  path on iOS start exposing I guess [TS]

  you're else kind of came and screwed up [TS]

  for everybody but anyway that was a [TS]

  there was an important part point in [TS]

  computing history and that was the most [TS]

  important point in my computing history [TS]

  as relates to apple or any other company [TS]

  has just said that you guys missed it i [TS]

  guess by my journey and computers began [TS]

  with trying to get stuff to work in das [TS]

  and and i believe was pc Darcy was IBM's [TS]

  version of us even when ms-dos was a [TS]

  thing and and I was annoying my dad [TS]

  constantly asking you know how do i do [TS]

  this how do i do that i do this happen [TS]

  that he just got exasperated and said [TS]

  I'll just read the manual and even [TS]

  though I was like eight years old he [TS]

  said it kind of sarcastically interest [TS]

  in and i took him at his word and I read [TS]

  the manual and so I I remember trying [TS]

  windows 31 and just thinking this is a [TS]

  piece of crap and I don't know why [TS]

  anyone would use this it's terrible i [TS]

  want to go back to toss and then when [TS]

  windows 95 came around it was like oh [TS]

  yeah this thing all those mac users were [TS]

  all excited about now I get it now this [TS]

  ain't so bad and look we have a recycle [TS]

  bin sort of the trash because we're [TS]

  better than they are but it was until [TS]

  windows 95 that I really understood what [TS]

  the point of it well that's not entirely [TS]

  true obviously I was nervous to warp [TS]

  user for a while and then I understood [TS]

  the gooey but but anyway it wasn't [TS]

  really much of a thing as early as it [TS]

  was for Mac users and I never really got [TS]

  that involved in the debate because I [TS]

  don't really know any mac users at the [TS]

  time [TS]

  any other thoughts on the pre to [TS]

  thousands and then let's cover the 2004 [TS]

  going to write from this is a pre-2000 [TS]

  like this something like almost of my [TS]

  Apple histories and provides giving my [TS]

  earliest ones you get referrals runs it [TS]

  always gonna be home and there's just so [TS]

  much stuff before the 2,000 that's like [TS]

  a lot of Russia old man no no shit no I [TS]

  like I'm really even though you guys [TS]

  turns into let me reminisce about my [TS]

  earliest memory of apples I was trying [TS]

  to think of like why when I think back [TS]

  on Apple like the sort of milestones and [TS]

  so that the the mac gooby the mac itself [TS]

  that computer that gooey that is the [TS]

  first big gigantic tentpole when I think [TS]

  back of the first 40 years and apple [TS]

  such an important thing and then [TS]

  probably people feel like I'm giving the [TS]

  Apple to short-shrift because that's so [TS]

  important in the history of apples the [TS]

  company but i'm not going with like what [TS]

  was important to the company where I'm [TS]

  going like when I look back on the first [TS]

  40 years of Apple the first big ten [TS]

  policy is that mac and I feel like that [TS]

  that tent pole there's a through line [TS]

  from that tent pole all the way through [TS]

  to the iphone whereas i don't think [TS]

  there's a very solid through line from [TS]

  the Apple to with expansion cards and a [TS]

  command line and all and you know and [TS]

  really like there's very little about [TS]

  the Apple to like the Apple to Steve [TS]

  Wozniak's machine the mac was jobs as [TS]

  machine right and jobs is the through [TS]

  line through the all history of apple [TS]

  and four for better for worse the Apple [TS]

  to was kind of an aberration in the [TS]

  entire line and then that it was like [TS]

  the company didn't become Steve [TS]

  Wozniak's company it became Steve Jobs [TS]

  company you know he left he came back he [TS]

  brought it back in line or you know but [TS]

  like even he was gone the people who [TS]

  were there in his stead making computers [TS]

  they were much more jobs like then was [TS]

  like a launcher jobs on the unsatisfying [TS]

  as well so that's the first big ten [TS]

  policy and then you could say and then [TS]

  fast forward and it's just like ipod [TS]

  iphone right i don't i don't really see [TS]

  that I see a lot of significant [TS]

  advancements in the middle there sort of [TS]

  like that the heart of the the snow [TS]

  white design error of max where they [TS]

  were all kind of platinum colored i [TS]

  guess and had slats in them and add a [TS]

  little rainbow logo on them and no one [TS]

  else was paying attention to them and [TS]

  Marco feel bad for anyone who had one [TS]

  but he shouldn't have felt bad because [TS]

  there were some amazing computers that [TS]

  none of his friends were going to have [TS]

  because they were like ten thousand [TS]

  dollars and then the eighties like here [TS]

  1989 actual $10,000 for a computer like [TS]

  nobody like regular people did not have [TS]

  these computers which is part of the [TS]

  reasons i lost the deaf and like they [TS]

  even look like Ferraris with the side [TS]

  slats on everything like you don't know [TS]

  anyone sorry just look at pictures of my [TS]

  magazines i was like them but the mac to [TS]

  FX was like to me actually never gonna [TS]

  meet anyone who was actually even touch [TS]

  one of these computers but I know it's [TS]

  out there an existing boys that amazing [TS]

  and I would kill to have that computer [TS]

  but it cost him maybe wasn't 10,000 it [TS]

  was like eight thousand dollars in [TS]

  1988-89 might as well been 10,000 was no [TS]

  help was ever gonna get one and there [TS]

  was no equipment for that to me and in [TS]

  any other line of computers forget about [TS]

  the GUI and everything like that like [TS]

  that this was like a Ferrari in that it [TS]

  wasn't like a muscle car which you could [TS]

  say all I could I could buy a beat-up pc [TS]

  and built myself and a bold you know I [TS]

  have better specs in my mac to FX if [TS]

  you're lucky right that might have been [TS]

  possible but it's not a Ferrari you [TS]

  can't build a Ferrari yourself in your [TS]

  garage out of spare parts you can't buy [TS]

  like a stock mustang and replace the [TS]

  engine and do custom suspension I got my [TS]

  own for are you do not you do not have [TS]

  your own ferrari the high-end max or [TS]

  like Ferraris and that they were [TS]

  technical Marvel's they were [TS]

  ridiculously expensive and they were [TS]

  beautifully designed and like they were [TS]

  products right you know that the whole [TS]

  thing that we love about our products [TS]

  today that was there was something they [TS]

  had back then as well they had became a [TS]

  beautiful manuals their accessories [TS]

  their keyboards and mice the monitors [TS]

  they came with you know that trend tron [TS]

  displays when no one else was bothering [TS]

  with those things and make the case was [TS]

  beautifully matched to the computer and [TS]

  the power cords and just like everything [TS]

  about them they're just they're just [TS]

  magical [TS]

  I do have two effects now by the way [TS]

  home I got 135 dollars so depreciation [TS]

  sports stuff but uh I just imagine you [TS]

  don't quite have my Ferrari yet but [TS]

  maybe someday well but I guess that's [TS]

  like the second tent pole is that the [TS]

  whole error max when everybody else [TS]

  thought max sucks because the operating [TS]

  system was still great windows had not [TS]

  caught up because they never really [TS]

  understood [TS]

  what was truly magical about the mac [TS]

  like the fact that there were no file [TS]

  past that there was no command line [TS]

  there was no any files and bat files and [TS]

  I are cues and anything like that or [TS]

  drivers or any of that crap you had your [TS]

  own series of hacks though but they're [TS]

  all of them involve the abstraction grip [TS]

  we would drag things in and out of the [TS]

  system folder like physically you know [TS]

  pull this analysis and folder put into [TS]

  the system folder put in control panels [TS]

  folder put in the control panel to sable [TS]

  folder but take it out of the extensions [TS]

  folder and reboot like it was all done [TS]

  on top of that X abstraction like there [TS]

  was no there is no command line like [TS]

  there was there was no underneath like [TS]

  you know obviously you can get at the [TS]

  debugger and start pokin memory [TS]

  addresses and stuff but the abstraction [TS]

  was so total eventually the detriment of [TS]

  the mac obviously i could I love Mac [TS]

  os10 like a lot of unix right but it was [TS]

  just such a different a different age or [TS]

  computer engage eyes I think he needs to [TS]

  come back eventually and has sort of [TS]

  come back in iOS iOS takes away all that [TS]

  stuff from the users perspective it's [TS]

  still there under the cover is much more [TS]

  visible even from the developer's [TS]

  perspective than it was in the mac but [TS]

  from the users perspective iOS has [TS]

  continued to remove so I i truly feel [TS]

  like iOS is the natural successor to the [TS]

  original mac operating system much more [TS]

  so than mac OS tennis despite the fact [TS]

  that of course being a modern except i [TS]

  love my question last concert tonight is [TS]

  betterment betterment is the largest [TS]

  independent automated investing service [TS]

  out there go to betterment calm / ATP it [TS]

  is never too late to start saving for [TS]

  retirement or to meet your other [TS]

  financial goals financial services [TS]

  industry has embraced technology with [TS]

  the entry of automated investing [TS]

  services like betterment and they're the [TS]

  largest you probably hearing a lot about [TS]

  betterment in TechCrunch Wall Street [TS]

  Journal other big news outlets better it [TS]

  makes it easier more straightforward and [TS]

  less expensive to invest betterment [TS]

  built on smarter cutting-edge technology [TS]

  to bring the sophisticated investing and [TS]

  financial advice on a lower cost than [TS]

  more traditional financial services and [TS]

  i can personally vouch for that that the [TS]

  fees they offer that are so much lower [TS]

  order of magnitude lower than most the [TS]

  fees that I've seen my personal [TS]

  investing experience before this you [TS]

  really cannot beat these fees there's [TS]

  their solo and that that really adds up [TS]

  over time [TS]

  now more than a hundred fifty thousand [TS]

  customers choose betterment advanced [TS]

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  their dollars [TS]

  this is the perfect time to get started [TS]

  with betterment and saving for your [TS]

  retirement or other financial goals [TS]

  because eighty listeners can get up to [TS]

  six months of no fees learn how a better [TS] / ATP that's better / [TS]

  ATP betterment investing made better [TS]

  alright so i will start with my next [TS]

  memory and that I don't remember where [TS]

  this isn't the chronology so if i'm [TS]

  skipping to the end of the 2,000 by I [TS]

  don't think I am but I know actually do [TS]

  remember it was roughly 2,500 had heard [TS]

  about our ipods i had seen them i had [TS]

  perhaps used one from time to time and i [TS]

  never really was that into them [TS]

  I'm diamond rio way back when I think [TS]

  before an ipod was a thing but then the [TS]

  ipod nano came out and holy crap that I [TS]

  want one something awful and I [TS]

  eventually got 1i think aaron got it for [TS]

  me I'm this was right after we started [TS]

  dating but I got it I eventually got an [TS]

  ipad ipod nano which i still have or I [TS]

  think that's what was whatever the one [TS]

  was that had the screen and click wheel [TS]

  but it was super super thin and I just [TS]

  wanted one so hard and that was the [TS]

  first time i was really interested in an [TS]

  apple product that i can remember and [TS]

  that was I think the beginning of the [TS]

  end for me when it came for the [TS]

  beginning the beginning actually I [TS]

  should say when it came to apple stuff [TS]

  was looking at ipod nano and just [TS]

  thinking holy crap i must have that yeah [TS]

  that mean that was denied having a lot [TS]

  of people in apple honestly I mean you [TS]

  know the ipod it as a whole [TS]

  obviously a lot of people in but that [TS]

  first that first nano and the situation [TS]

  ally think really played a large part in [TS]

  it because it was so compelling that the [TS]

  the full-size ipods were always a lot [TS]

  more expensive and you know they they [TS]

  weren't they were [TS]

  amazing for the for the time but I just [TS]

  feel like that than the mini first and [TS]

  the nano just took it to another level [TS]

  yeah i agree the magic of flash storage [TS]

  so everything that was not the flash was [TS]

  not other people's radar but I review or [TS]

  an apple fan at that time as well like [TS]

  the progression from that you know the [TS]

  whole ipod line was made possible that [TS]

  tiny little whatever it was like [TS]

  inch-and-a-quarter one inch or whatever [TS]

  was this tiny little hard drives which [TS]

  are such a ridiculous hacks like doll [TS]

  furniture for your computer and you know [TS]

  a little but it works it's a real [TS]

  working hard drive right jumping from [TS]

  that to no moving parts and much smaller [TS]

  made a shocking you know that the Steve [TS]

  Jobs same Center already had in that [TS]

  little and like the little change pocket [TS]

  and your nose with that pocket does he [TS]

  pulled out of that pocket and it was it [TS]

  was such a leap and especially for [TS]

  something that involves miniaturization [TS]

  it's so weird to have a popular product [TS]

  line that that really hinges on [TS]

  miniaturization to have become popular [TS]

  before flash memory was ubiquitous which [TS]

  allowed that big jump because you would [TS]

  think it would be impossible to even [TS]

  popularizing music player whether all [TS]

  the size of a deck of cards that guard [TS]

  isn't big but again it's kind of [TS]

  ridiculous when you think about it and [TS]

  so unlike cell phones and so many other [TS]

  things are smart phones anyway that it [TS]

  were born in the era of flash storage [TS]

  we're never gonna get another another [TS]

  leap like that until we get to some you [TS]

  know whatever the next technological [TS]

  breakthrough is that allows I cannot [TS]

  imagine again if you if within one phone [TS]

  generation it had the same drop in [TS]

  volume as from the mean to the nano we [TS]

  would our drawers would be on the floor [TS]

  like it would almost be the credit card [TS]

  i phone you know what I mean it would go [TS]

  like well we haven't just made it like [TS]

  half is thin and half is narrow but like [TS]

  it would you know so much to do the math [TS]

  on what the volume difference but was [TS]

  between the mini and the nano but it was [TS]

  just viscerally when you hold in your [TS]

  hand it was just shocking like how could [TS]

  this be possible this is a magic candy [TS]

  bar the gym does everything that the [TS]

  many did but it's so much smaller and [TS]

  looks like the future and scratches like [TS]

  crazy because the plastic is really soft [TS]

  loops but anyway effects that minor [TS]

  detail [TS]

  minor details no i mean so I got into [TS]

  apple stuff really in in the 2,000 in [TS]

  the in nearly 2,000 because i was [TS]

  leaving [TS]

  college and he doesn't for and I was [TS]

  about to start a new job and i was i was [TS]

  ready for a new computer and was ready [TS]

  for my first laptop and it's high time [TS]

  you looking on the pc laptop area I i [TS]

  always like ventured into like the Apple [TS]

  room at microcenter here and there to [TS]

  guess I kind of look around like as os10 [TS]

  kinda got off the ground and started [TS]

  because started getting a little bit of [TS]

  attention and started you know getting [TS]

  good in in the early two thousands I i [TS]

  was i wouldn't even look in there and I [TS]

  just kept thinking like man os10 looks [TS]

  really nice and these apple laptops are [TS]

  really nice this is the area of the [TS]

  powerbook g4 and so I i was seeing these [TS]

  apple laptops looks so good [TS]

  the same house in the market for a [TS]

  laptop the pc laptops at the time were [TS]

  just no not doing anything for me and I [TS]

  wanted something really good because I [TS]

  was curious about this platform as you [TS]

  know what this this seems like the right [TS]

  time i think im gonna try because i [TS]

  really just want that you know that the [TS]

  basic 15 inch powerbook g4 that the [TS]

  current macbook pro doesn't still look [TS]

  that different from I just wanted that [TS]

  so badly and and so I I once I finished [TS]

  college I scrape together the graduation [TS]

  money I gotten from here and there and [TS]

  various savings here and there and spent [TS]

  something like twenty four hundred [TS]

  dollars on powerbook g4 1544 at first i [TS]

  was using it like I got into it slowly [TS]

  i-i-i-ice forgetting i clearly figure [TS]

  how this works [TS]

  transfer over some some of the things i [TS]

  do on to this and then over the next I [TS]

  don't know year or two around two [TS]

  thousand five or so over the next year [TS]

  too i just stopped wanting to use my [TS]

  windows pcs it because os10 was just so [TS]

  much better in so many ways and most was [TS]

  when I think it still is better just [TS]

  think this design considerations the way [TS]

  things worth technical advancements of [TS]

  things the respect it shows for users [TS]

  and their time and their attention [TS]

  I just the overall quality of of good [TS]

  third-party software on the platform it [TS]

  it was just so much better than windows [TS]

  and in my opinion again still is [TS]

  it got to the point where i was when i [TS]

  was at work one day I i worked at a [TS]

  company that was developing a search web [TS]

  apps like search-based enterprise web [TS]

  apps so all i had to do was write code [TS]

  in C it didn't really matter what [TS]

  platform i used to write that code and I [TS]

  needed I needed a terminal window that [TS]

  can run VI and then excuse me determine [TS]

  whether they can run like a run them on [TS]

  linux servers that we were logging into [TS]

  development on and web browser and an [TS]

  email client that's all i needed so all [TS]

  those things I got the mac in fact [TS]

  terminal it's actually easier on the mac [TS]

  i was using stupid cygwin that work in [TS]

  that sucks oh yeah exactly so one day at [TS]

  work it was when windows XP service pack [TS]

  2 came out this is somewhere around two [TS]

  dozen five members very specifically [TS]

  service pack 2 introduced a feature if [TS]

  there was an update to be installed from [TS]

  windows update which there always was it [TS]

  would show boxes saying hey this is [TS]

  ready to go you want to reboot now or [TS]

  later [TS]

  and if you didn't click reboot later [TS]

  after a certain amount of time maybe a [TS]

  couple hours or whatever it was just [TS]

  reboot for you and it would force close [TS]

  everything all windows you had open it [TS]

  would just force close the mall and [TS]

  forcefully reboot the computer if you [TS]

  didn't respond this box in a certain [TS]

  number of hours so one day I had a ton [TS]

  of terminal windows open [TS]

  tons of stuff open my computer and I [TS]

  went home for the night it was my work [TS]

  computer and I came back came back the [TS]

  next morning and it's unfortunately [TS]

  rebooted the computer and I was so mad [TS]

  that I just unplug the monitor plugged [TS]

  into my mac that I was being with me [TS]

  everyday anyway like when I to stuff it [TS]

  into my mac keyboard and mouse plug them [TS]

  into my mac and just turned off my work [TS]

  computer and just never use that windows [TS]

  where computer again after a small [TS]

  amount of time i did the same thing at [TS]

  home I had this gaming pc ableton home [TS]

  basically only to play half-life two [TS]

  ahead [TS]

  I eventually just stop wanting to use [TS]

  that for anything too and so I i just [TS]

  started using my Mac full time because I [TS]

  just I didn't want to use windows [TS]

  anymore it had annoyed me for so many [TS]

  years with mediocrity [TS]

  you know I i had some good times on [TS]

  Windows but those times were over [TS]

  and it was very very clear from you know [TS]

  2005 ish forward those times were [TS]

  completely over you know I had a very [TS]

  similar journey into the max so after i [TS]

  think it was in school maybe or shortly [TS]

  after I graduated I started running [TS]

  ubuntu on my thinkpad and that was what [TS]

  i was using full time at home i was on [TS]

  windows at work and a bunch of home and [TS]

  it was working pretty well for the most [TS]

  part this was fairly early in bunches [TS]

  history and I was doing a distro upgrade [TS]

  from like God gutsy given to hardy heron [TS]

  or something like that I forget exactly [TS]

  what it was but I was doing upgrade and [TS]

  i think was like x windows just [TS]

  completely crapped the bed and I [TS]

  couldn't get my thinkpad to work anymore [TS]

  without like reinstalling everything and [TS]

  I didn't want to go back to windows [TS]

  because i'd left windows on purpose and [TS]

  even though you know linux on the [TS]

  desktop was and remains a disaster it [TS]

  was less with disaster windows but now [TS]

  in a similar way to what you would [TS]

  experience on Windows Marco were just [TS]

  kind of reboot it on you and didn't tell [TS]

  you or didn't give you the chance not to [TS]

  well i tried to do this upgrade it just [TS]

  failed miserably and meanwhile i had you [TS]

  among others Marco whispering in my ear [TS]

  figuratively speaking you should get a [TS]

  mac you should get a mac you should get [TS]

  a mac you should get a mac and I vividly [TS]

  remember it was the WTC keynote i [TS]

  believe was 2008 i'm almost sure that I [TS]

  was wdc 2008 I listen to it or fail to [TS]

  follow along i guess to make sure they [TS]

  didn't introduce new macs and then that [TS]

  evening I went to the apple store and [TS]

  bought myself my first mac which was a [TS]

  polycarbonate macbook or poly book as i [TS]

  like to call it and that was in 2008 and [TS]

  I haven't bought a pc sense and you [TS]

  started an intel yeah yeah it that this [TS]

  is the same way that John can't stand [TS]

  how late i started I i look at your [TS]

  start that way even though the [TS]

  difference between John started when i [TS]

  started was like 20 years and between [TS]

  when i started when you start was like [TS]

  two years [TS]

  yeah yeah that really is accurate but it [TS]

  i can understand why you would feel like [TS]

  it was a lifetime difference i mean i [TS]

  think i was on leopard i think i was [TS]

  after tiger when i bought a machine [TS]

  am i started on whatever 10-3 was called [TS]

  I can't forget i keep forgetting that [TS]

  you guys never read any of my OS 10 [TS]

  reviews like in real time as they're [TS]

  released like it only if you would ever [TS]

  look at that would only be like looking [TS]

  backwards what you said about about [TS]

  windows like kind of feeling wronged [TS]

  feel like I think what crystallized it [TS]

  for me was the overall feeling from [TS]

  using windows at the time I don't know [TS]

  the last version of windows i used [TS]

  extensively was windows XP so I which [TS]

  grants many people are still using that [TS]

  but I don't know how it's been since [TS]

  then in anything more than just [TS]

  occasional users here and there but the [TS]

  impression I got from one up to that [TS]

  point was just that this was microsoft [TS]

  computer and I was along for the ride [TS]

  like the computer would just like you [TS]

  know if the winners like hey you know [TS]

  what we're gonna reboot now [TS]

  ok i just go and wait wait i was doing [TS]

  something know we're gonna reboot now [TS]

  sorry and you back up and it's like hey [TS]

  you want to take a tour [TS]

  no I want to do my work like it's it [TS]

  just always felt like Windows treats the [TS]

  computer like it's theirs and that [TS]

  they're pretty they're putting on a [TS]

  little show for you and I gonna do what [TS]

  they're gonna do it without regard to [TS]

  any respect for you and what you're [TS]

  doing in the working to do whereas max [TS]

  and they still have this advantage a [TS]

  little not as much but they still do [TS]

  whole disadvantage the mac respected you [TS]

  as the user things out of your way [TS]

  they're like things like for instance on [TS]

  Windows it was a common occurrence for [TS]

  some background application to put up a [TS]

  box that would steal the focus from the [TS]

  former from the first application and so [TS]

  you be just typing on all of a sudden [TS]

  you get a different app like wait what [TS]

  the hell happened and it was some things [TS]

  showed a system model box and took over [TS]

  the focus and imax that wasn't possible [TS]

  but it happened oh just way less often [TS]

  and just in general [TS]

  max give you the the the impression and [TS]

  the design that really left you in [TS]

  control of your computer and respected [TS]

  your time and your attention eh it [TS]

  wouldn't just like drag you along in two [TS]

  different things all we hey we got to go [TS]

  to this new thing having a what you want [TS]

  you want to get spammed by this new [TS]

  offer that we have this nude cool [TS]

  feature here's here's more balloons to [TS]

  profit from the system tray to tell you [TS]

  all about things and [TS]

  if you if you click on the blue they [TS]

  don't go away about a new window so you [TS]

  gotta figure out where to click on make [TS]

  them go away which might exist [TS]

  it was just the difference in overall [TS]

  attitude towards the user and the [TS]

  experience of being a user of both these [TS]

  platforms at the time the difference [TS]

  could not have been more striking and [TS]

  and I do still think that that [TS]

  difference exists today and I i don't [TS]

  know if it's wider or narrower but it's [TS]

  still there as far as i know and i think [TS]

  i think os10 soon to be renamed max [TS]

  still has the the advantage there is a [TS]

  significant margin and that's why i [TS]

  still use and this is why I like I am [TS]

  such a fan of the Mack I i know it's [TS]

  less cool these days to be a fan of the [TS]

  mac because not only does everybody have [TS]

  them but now the future of computing is [TS]

  not the mac according to everybody I [TS]

  just don't buy that because I'm such a [TS]

  huge fan of the mac i love the mac so [TS]

  much i still love it to this day and [TS]

  this is all one of the reasons why i am [TS]

  so critical when things the mac don't go [TS]

  well when it you know if I start seeing [TS]

  things slipping or things getting worse [TS]

  this is why I'm critical because [TS]

  everything i do for work for hobbies for [TS]

  entertainment [TS]

  almost everything i do involves using a [TS]

  computer and I do not want the computer [TS]

  to be anything else but a Mac I've tried [TS]

  windows [TS]

  unfortunately never in linux on the [TS]

  desktop of my main desktop i use it here [TS]

  and there like at work and school [TS]

  sometimes but I never never and I'm a [TS]

  computer because I'm not crazy [TS]

  okc but everyone I please I know that [TS]

  Windows is going to have this new linux [TS]

  subsystem we will talk about if it ever [TS]

  becomes relevant to us you know I think [TS]

  it's still early but I know windows [TS]

  Adams please please don't emails about [TS]

  this week we know thank you very much we [TS]

  will talk about it when when the time [TS]

  comes but i do not want to switch back [TS]

  to windows and I think if Mac os10 never [TS]

  got so bad that I couldn't use it [TS]

  anymore [TS]

  I would switch to linux because i really [TS]

  did run fleeing from windows and as much [TS]

  as Microsoft has done things in recent [TS]

  years that are interesting to people [TS]

  like us they know we always say oh this [TS]

  is interesting [TS]

  windows 8 with this [TS]

  new thing was interesting and Windows 10 [TS]

  these new things are interesting the [TS]

  gnu/linux system that's interesting [TS]

  these are all interesting when you're [TS]

  not using them and they're interesting [TS]

  because we are a distance and people who [TS]

  use them everyday they're probably a lot [TS]

  less interesting and and from what I [TS]

  hear from people they read the reason [TS]

  the reviews from all these things are so [TS]

  mixed and there's so many gotchas and [TS]

  trade-offs and negatives associated with [TS]

  them that it's it sounds to me like [TS]

  Windows is roughly the same that it's [TS]

  always bit where my entire time using [TS]

  Windows I had a love-hate relationship [TS]

  with it it was always fine i put up with [TS]

  it i tolerated it but it had all these [TS]

  annoyances shortcomings and it sounds [TS]

  like that's still what it is you know [TS]

  just how things shift around a little [TS]

  bit there's different audiences some of [TS]

  them fix them but have someone added [TS]

  sounds like windows from what everyone [TS]

  uses it tells me it sounds like it's [TS]

  still about the same just you know think [TS]

  things are different but the same but [TS]

  the mac i I really feel protective of [TS]

  because it is my entire computing life [TS]

  and I I don't I I neither want that to [TS]

  change nor do I want the mac to get [TS]

  worse [TS]

  I only want them back to get better and [TS]

  and that that is why you know I every [TS]

  time i say anything negative about apple [TS]

  on the show we hear criticism for it [TS]

  people complain to us all the time that [TS]

  were that were to negative towards Apple [TS]

  or that we created Apple too much rather [TS]

  tired of hearing a lot about especially [TS]

  focused towards me but this is why I do [TS]

  it because I love this platform so much [TS]

  I depend on the platform so much and [TS]

  nothing else out there is good enough [TS]

  for me [TS]

  you know you mentioned when you're [TS]

  talking about the computer like [TS]

  respecting the user and you know not [TS]

  feeling like you're using someone else's [TS]

  computer and like the computer microsoft [TS]

  was in control of the computer and you [TS]

  just happened to be there and it would [TS]

  tolerate your some period of time [TS]

  it's once again reminded of how sad mall [TS]

  it's probably your age but also partly [TS]

  but that you were alive when using [TS]

  computers during the age when the mac [TS]

  even more like this for the first thing [TS]

  that popped in my mind I they gave your [TS]

  original example of the computer not [TS]

  respecting what you were doing whatever [TS]

  it's like old man voice time was and you [TS]

  could name it whatever you wanted [TS]

  I mean you guys never you lived through [TS]

  it but you didn't live through it as a [TS]

  user there are when I mean it was still [TS]

  files and folders right but you could [TS]

  name files whatever you wanted and most [TS]

  of the computing world has never lived [TS]

  on a system where that's true that the [TS]

  file the file name was you just type [TS]

  stuff there right sentences spaces [TS]

  punctuation no Colin's that will just [TS]

  substitute hyphen most people didn't [TS]

  notice that one but you but slashes you [TS]

  if you want to put dates whatever you [TS]

  wanted except for this one special [TS]

  character [TS]

  yeah yeah all that that's the whole [TS]

  thing they wouldn't it wouldn't be but [TS]

  you would just suddenly turned into a [TS]

  hyphen and and you know but mostly what [TS]

  I remembering dates like you do you know [TS]

  month day year and the you know typical [TS]

  us date type thing with / and stuff [TS]

  anyway [TS]

  most of the time you just typing words [TS]

  there but the whole point is that the [TS]

  file name was entirely the users domain [TS]

  you could you name your hard drives [TS]

  whatever you want you can name your [TS]

  files whatever you wanted and I did I [TS]

  mean my hard drives whatever I wanted to [TS]

  call them my name my files and folders [TS]

  in sentences with capital letters in [TS]

  each word and spaces between them and [TS]

  punctuation and that was a freedom that [TS]

  essentially we had for this brief moment [TS]

  in time is mostly gone now in any system [TS]

  that forces us to deal with the files at [TS]

  all I mean I guess the freedom and iOS [TS]

  like all your files at all now you're [TS]

  free don't feel better but that got [TS]

  taken away because it was one of the [TS]

  things that didn't carry over from [TS]

  classic Mac Mac os10 it's one things [TS]

  that has never existed in Windows or [TS]

  Linux or anything like that [TS]

  yeah whatever you guys missed it it was [TS]

  great it was glorious and I don't know [TS]

  if I don't know if all ever [TS]

  I don't know who ever lived to see it [TS]

  again when will i have when will someone [TS]

  rediscover that I guess maybe they only [TS]

  rediscover it in the context where files [TS]

  are no longer thing I know that's the [TS]

  jury's still out on that we've talked [TS]

  about it so much about how iOS does this [TS]

  wonderful thing of [TS]

  hiding the file system from people and [TS]

  yet the file system is such a flexible [TS]

  way files and folders to solve so many [TS]

  problems that you either have to end up [TS]

  recreating the file system in the form [TS]

  of a new abstraction that isn't actually [TS]

  directly back by the file system but [TS]

  just gives people to arrest you know [TS]

  like springboard is a great example [TS]

  folders you know they call them folders [TS]

  just for historical reasons if you were [TS]

  to plop someone down in 2007 that our [TS]

  whatever they added folders to [TS]

  springboard not 2007 I guess they wanted [TS]

  they call those folders they don't look [TS]

  anything like folders and they don't [TS]

  really behave anything like that's all [TS]

  you got to explain desktop metaphor [TS]

  files folders anyway [TS]

  yet you re creating something like that [TS]

  but it's not quite the same thing [TS]

  doesn't have the same flexibility of [TS]

  being able to name things and save them [TS]

  somewhere and and organize them and pull [TS]

  them back up so it could be that no one [TS]

  ever hesitation to use that but if it [TS]

  turns out that that type of arrangement [TS]

  really is the best way we come up with [TS]

  for people to arbitrarily arrange stuff [TS]

  on their computing device maybe it will [TS]

  come back again but boy it was great and [TS]

  I still think about it every time I see [TS]

  like a a hidden file name extension [TS]

  comes out and scares me or incorrect [TS]

  file an extension causes an icon to have [TS]

  chosen the file to have the wrong icon [TS]

  of course it to launch the wrong [TS]

  application by what a mess so just annoy [TS]

  you John like all kidding aside that [TS]

  that Marco and I especially I especially [TS]

  me are so new to the platform like does [TS]

  that frustrate you because we don't have [TS]

  that that we didn't go through the [TS]

  crappy time like you did now it's mostly [TS]

  I i tried the thing that bothers me the [TS]

  most is the time when you guys were [TS]

  alive and using computers but weren't [TS]

  using that all the things that all [TS]

  things that you like about Max were true [TS]

  and Pat perhaps like it's that perhaps [TS]

  even more true then [TS]

  and yet you weren't like it's like [TS]

  wasted time like you could have been [TS]

  using max but you weren't for a bunch of [TS]

  silly reason right that's fair that's [TS]

  fair [TS]

  although i don't know if you would put [TS]

  you know 10 or 12 year old me in front [TS]

  of a mac at home like not at school [TS]

  because I enjoyed using at school I mean [TS]

  it was a it was a neat little diversion [TS]

  but if you put me in front of one of [TS]

  those at home I don't think I would have [TS]

  appreciated [TS]

  like even you know an equivalently aged [TS]

  you was like i don't i don't want to do [TS]

  the math in my head but however old you [TS]

  were when the mac was new was young as [TS]

  far as i remember as far as I'm aware [TS]

  and so you appreciate it even has a [TS]

  younger age are at a younger age you [TS]

  appreciated much better than I think I [TS]

  would have if I were in your shoes [TS]

  not I I think you would I think you both [TS]

  had you both had and have the like the [TS]

  the sensibilities to appreciate it i [TS]

  mean speaking more realistic me that I [TS]

  like this [TS]

  my experience has been whenever I had [TS]

  someone over my house who was a hardcore [TS]

  PC user like a friend or whatever was [TS]

  totally into be seized and thought max [TS]

  were junk i could blow their mind with [TS]

  the things i did with my computer even [TS]

  my computer was black-and-white the fact [TS]

  that the pixels are so friggin microsoft [TS]

  was the retina screen of the day they [TS]

  had never seen experience with pixels [TS]

  the smaller the sharp like I would blow [TS]

  their mind with black-and-white games [TS]

  you know I games and inequity talk how [TS]

  could you blow their mind with the game [TS]

  they're playing doom right the pixels of [TS]

  the size of boulders right i would blow [TS]

  their mind by having multiple screens [TS]

  and arranging them was like the displays [TS]

  control panel like there were so many [TS]

  things I could do that would just make [TS]

  their heads explode and they were their [TS]

  drawers would drop it was just so much [TS]

  farther ahead of anything we had ever [TS]

  seen [TS]

  did that mean they were gonna go home [TS]

  and buy a mac know because max where max [TS]

  or a bajillion dollars there's no [TS]

  avoiding this like they were just so [TS]

  much more expensive and it's kind of [TS]

  like it you know the computers [TS]

  themselves are so much more expensive [TS]

  back then it's not like you had each kid [TS]

  had their own computer like the family [TS]

  had one computer was like a car you know [TS]

  it wasn't like you just bought a new one [TS]

  every year hoping this would be for the [TS]

  upgrade cycle and the internet and other [TS]

  stuff so realistically speaking about [TS]

  how made somebody was by my mac they're [TS]

  not going to go home and say hey mom can [TS]

  we buy three thousand dollars in [TS]

  nineteen eighties money computer they [TS]

  were like what are you talking about it [TS]

  was you know so really i'm speaking of [TS]

  our position of massive privilege having [TS]

  had the original you know macintosh 128k [TS]

  macintosh and a series of maxim like you [TS]

  just couldn't form that because that was [TS]

  one thing that was true back in the you [TS]

  know the the slam against the max [TS]

  they're more expensive my god with a [TS]

  more expensive everything to help them [TS]

  somewhere the keyboard was two hundred [TS]

  dollars for crying out loud at nineteen [TS]

  eighties money right one [TS]

  fantastic was an awesome keyboard though [TS]

  ask where I think he's still using it [TS]

  oh that's so real so this week that's [TS]

  one of the reasons but and that was also [TS]

  one of the reasons that you couldn't [TS]

  convince people accepted that they would [TS]

  come over and I would blow them away [TS]

  with my amazing mcintosh but they had to [TS]

  go back home and retrench on the pc [TS]

  because there's no way they could get a [TS]

  mac like there was it was never going to [TS]

  happen right i mean they would have had [TS]

  to turn around and try to convince their [TS]

  parents together mac and they would not [TS]

  be successful because their parents [TS]

  wouldn't be as impressed by what [TS]

  everything that i showed them so that it [TS]

  was it was an uphill battle and but i [TS]

  believe both of you would have also been [TS]

  impressed by the things I mean even when [TS]

  i got my color 1 24 bit color it's not [TS]

  24-bit color on picking on me again all [TS]

  my pc using friends have never even seen [TS]

  a screen with 16.8 million college had [TS]

  no idea like they were you know vga 256 [TS]

  they were just amazing that you would go [TS]

  640 by 480 it's like you don't even know [TS]

  what you're talking about guys let me [TS]

  show you [TS]

  you know you're like a transfer [TS]

  on-screen high risk transfer on screen [TS]

  with 24 bit color attached to my mac [TS]

  ac30 arranged with the black-and-whites [TS]

  got i would drag a window half on the [TS]

  black and white screen half on the color [TS]

  screen and move it around just their [TS]

  little brains would explode and you know [TS]

  and that computer setup was like six [TS]

  thousand dollars right so how those are [TS]

  the days man but I mean there there are [TS]

  explicable reasons but i feel like you [TS]

  two would have appreciated what you're [TS]

  seeing because you appreciate I mean you [TS]

  appreciate nice things like that that [TS]

  look nice you appreciate the Apple [TS]

  aesthetic like all the sort of things [TS]

  that make a Ferrari different than a [TS]

  muscle car i believe you both could have [TS]

  appreciated then because you do [TS]

  appreciate that the same reason case you [TS]

  made your disk icon look different [TS]

  that is a Mac user thing to do 9pcs had [TS]

  drive letters I see and I think it was [TS]

  just me wanting to be cooler than my [TS]

  peers I appreciate everything you just [TS]

  said that the mac was cooler though it [TS]

  was it i mean yeah i know i was well put [TS]

  to you because you appreciated these [TS]

  things whereas to mark when I am i'm [TS]

  putting words in Marcos mouth [TS]

  I think we would have been like you know [TS]

  that is really cool that you have all [TS]

  these colors and yeah that does look [TS]

  nice but [TS]

  remind me again why I can't play doom or [TS]

  whatever you know the game of the week [TS]

  was right i don't think i would have [TS]

  carried a game games was the thing that [TS]

  you could pull out of the pc but like a [TS]

  you know it seemed like it was old hat [TS]

  like doing was everywhere it doing was [TS]

  not a differentiator everybody had doom [TS]

  like you could you could play due mon on [TS]

  any old computer wasn't technically [TS]

  impressive after the first you know then [TS]

  it [TS]

  same thing with like you know the the [TS]

  playstation and once the 3d game console [TS]

  started coming out a lot of the gaming [TS]

  shifted that look like pc gaming you [TS]

  know the result that was always gonna be [TS]

  something that the pc was going to do [TS]

  better and you know the mac never came [TS]

  close in gaming so that was just just [TS]

  complete write-off but that's why I said [TS]

  it was amazing that I can impress my [TS]

  friends with mac games good [TS]

  what in the world could you impress them [TS]

  with like they had every game in the [TS]

  world right then they have everything in [TS]

  the world what what kind of mac possibly [TS]

  do with games and our children games [TS]

  that didn't even exist on the pc so [TS]

  that's like opening their eyes up to a [TS]

  you know whole world of quirky games and [TS]

  be high-res games like there are certain [TS]

  genres of games that's why syndicate was [TS]

  so amazing to go with 640 by 480 you [TS]

  have to see the little people on your pc [TS]

  it was like one of the only pc games [TS]

  like when i was playing sitting with my [TS]

  friends that even like see the reason [TS]

  you like this game is the reason why [TS]

  people care anything about the mac games [TS]

  because the mac has no games the most [TS]

  the games are terrible but the ones that [TS]

  it has are all beautiful and high-res [TS]

  and have nice colors & are interesting [TS]

  or whatever anyway now I definitely [TS]

  think the mac was cooler in the same [TS]

  with Steve Jobs cool than Bill Gates [TS]

  like that's basically the human [TS]

  embodiment of why app on the max cooler [TS]

  first of all I think there might be at [TS]

  the age gap here showing that like I [TS]

  think John you're talking about the [TS]

  difference between macs and pcs for [TS]

  gaming and stuff i think at an earlier [TS]

  time span that was mostly relevant to me [TS]

  in kc words like for us like we were [TS]

  comparing max in like you know 1994 [TS]

  through 99 like that like that error [TS]

  like comparing those macs two depending [TS]

  on one the 46 and and us vga graphics [TS]

  cards and us that you're comparing the [TS]

  Apple going down the toilet drain like [TS]

  Apple going-out-of-business like the pre [TS]

  Steve Jobs 1997 like the low point of [TS]

  Apple so if you're if you're any of the [TS]

  middle to late nineties yet that was the [TS]

  worst Apple would ever be [TS]

  that's why I'm saying that it was a [TS]

  shame that you had missed out on apple [TS]

  for all those years when you could have [TS]

  been using when you just wasn't even on [TS]

  your radar right because Apple was not [TS]

  as bad then especially in comparison so [TS]

  I mean computer and i got my first [TS]

  computer 94like so it was but I got a [TS]

  computer APPL was already on the decline [TS]

  and at that point like you know you say [TS]

  you say like me in kc you know we [TS]

  appreciate good things I don't know [TS]

  about Casey but would not when i was in [TS]

  middle school and high school I didn't [TS]

  appreciate nice things I just wanted to [TS]

  play games like that's yeah that's what [TS]

  every middle school or high school wants [TS]

  to do with their computers play games [TS]

  it's look I you know I can yeah i could [TS]

  type of paper on it cool let me finish [TS]

  that we can go back to playing doom like [TS]

  that it was an end by the way every [TS]

  other game because of the high like yes [TS]

  you could play games on max but not most [TS]

  of them and usually not when they were [TS]

  new 1pcs i think over your play doom on [TS]

  the mac and the nineties actually have [TS]

  terrible terrible next version of doom [TS]

  for that was grim [TS]

  yeah but see and like gaming on the Mac [TS]

  was always a second-class citizen very [TS]

  gaming on the on the pc like in the [TS]

  nineties so and honestly still today but [TS]

  less less so to hey you guys know how [TS]

  good you have it today I think maybe [TS]

  worse today is like a backhand even in [TS]

  the nineties if I had showed you a [TS]

  black-and-white version of dark castle [TS]

  you would have been impressed because [TS]

  there was nothing like that on the pc [TS]

  because there was over the mac only game [TS]

  and it just looked and played so much [TS]

  differently than anything you would have [TS]

  seen on NBC you would have still said [TS]

  that dream was better because doing was [TS]

  better but it was interesting and an [TS]

  impressive and novel in in a way that [TS]

  made the mat and differentiated the mac [TS]

  because there is no way the mac was [TS]

  going to me by saying whatever popular [TS]

  game you liking your pc we have that on [TS]

  the Mac because of what was the point [TS]

  even if it exactly duplicated was like [TS]

  well but i already had that the only way [TS]

  that could could be meaningful in any [TS]

  way was to have something different and [TS]

  that's how you would impress a jaded [TS]

  diehard PC you can impress them by [TS]

  showing them doom and quake they already [TS]

  have those games like even if they ran [TS]

  perfectly so what they already had that [TS]

  it has to be something different [TS]

  and that's what Mac gaming had again [TS]

  they're not gonna say okay well now i [TS]

  need to get a mac but plenty of pc using [TS]

  friends like I will never give up my pc [TS]

  for a mac but can we go over to your [TS]

  house and play that weird that game that [TS]

  we're playing hey what happened to all [TS]

  the time [TS]

  well that was going to like be abandoned [TS]

  computers were educated they're so [TS]

  expensive the so not only did like most [TS]

  people don't even have one so you have [TS]

  to have one at all was a luxury and also [TS]

  you wouldn't have been exposed to many [TS]

  of them during that time like like you [TS]

  know the total number of computers that [TS]

  I played on during my entire childhood [TS]

  was probably like including at friends [TS]

  houses was probably less than 10 so i [TS]

  can get you weren't exposed to many [TS]

  computers you if you have any were very [TS]

  lucky and the upgrade cycle was pretty [TS]

  long especially when you're a kid like [TS]

  three years or five years feels like [TS]

  forever when you're a kid that could be [TS]

  like a 30 or childhood least the part [TS]

  you remember so whatever you got like [TS]

  the sense of like you know what is now [TS]

  called fanboyism like the sense of I [TS]

  trying to defend your purchase trying to [TS]

  never let the thought into your head [TS]

  that something else is out there is [TS]

  better than what you got [TS]

  pc people had no chance of appreciating [TS]

  anything the mac had that was better [TS]

  because they were pc people already and [TS]

  they couldn't just like buy a mac next [TS]

  month like know you were stuck with that [TS]

  pc you got for all of middle school you [TS]

  know you're over it so like whatever you [TS]

  had like you had to be happy with that [TS]

  and they could probably couldn't buy a [TS]

  mac next year in prison they were so [TS]

  expensive when it came time to replace [TS]

  your pc there's nowhere you're gonna [TS]

  replace it with a computer that cost [TS]

  literally twice as much right times as [TS]

  much everything but I've again the [TS]

  things you appreciate the type of person [TS]

  who would see just the hardware on a Mac [TS]

  like what the case looks like what how [TS]

  it's designed and how it doesn't look [TS]

  like you know the IBM PC xtk soar like [TS]

  the Gateway always liked it was [TS]

  aesthetically a difference in both the [TS]

  hardware and the software that you would [TS]

  appreciate it as sort of like a nicer [TS]

  things kinda like if you got into your [TS]

  friends Mercedes like we never had fancy [TS]

  cars but I had friends who had Perseids [TS]

  are their parents will come to pick me [TS]

  up and I would sit in them over like wow [TS]

  like this is a different this is a [TS]

  different kind of car everything in this [TS]

  car is nicer the door handles the seats [TS]

  the dashboard the headliner the little [TS]

  carpets under my feet [TS]

  everything about it's just nicer and [TS]

  Weiner and like the mac did that with [TS]

  the little pixels on the screen that [TS]

  everything was like classy and tasteful [TS]

  and nicely drawn maybe again if you'd [TS]

  like that particular style that the mac [TS]

  deals you I feel like both you do like [TS]

  that particular style because apple [TS]

  style today when both hardware and [TS]

  software is not that different from that [TS]

  and so again it doesn't mean that you [TS]

  would run out and buy one but that you [TS]

  would see it and go this is a nice this [TS]

  is a nice thing here this ridiculously [TS]

  expensive computer I can kind of see [TS]

  where the six thousand dollars went [TS]

  someone paid some designer to make this [TS]

  case to look nice so it looks good from [TS]

  all sorts of angles and everything kind [TS]

  of matches and its really nice and [TS]

  everything I see the screen is nice to [TS]

  like to the keyboard sucks [TS]

  yeah some people some people can't be [TS]

  ship is all they would see is like the [TS]

  lack of a command line or let you know [TS]

  if there are eunuchs never did like the [TS]

  lack of you know emacs or them or [TS]

  whatever like it depends on what you say [TS]

  about it because the fact that you two [TS]

  are Mac users today I feel confident [TS]

  that you would have that attraction [TS]

  could have been fostered in younger [TS]

  versions of yourself and so you did so [TS]

  your first Apple experiences weren't [TS]

  like when Apple what is the lowest point [TS]

  it would ever be in the history of the [TS]

  company and had the worst products that [TS]

  would ever have a ministry of the [TS]

  company probably not a good entry point [TS]

  for you to get into apple i don't know i [TS]

  agree with Marco that I i think in that [TS]

  era I don't know that I the eye for it [TS]

  but who knows you know you know you can [TS]

  never really tell you one thing though [TS]

  that I that I feel like you might have [TS]

  missed out on at least my perception of [TS]

  how ordering and a mac worked back in [TS]

  the day is I remember fretting with my [TS]

  father for days sometimes weeks trying [TS]

  to figure out the exact right bill to [TS]

  make of our gateway 2000 computer and [TS]

  then eventually our dell computers and [TS]

  in many ways that's not a good thing [TS]

  that we had that much choice that there [TS]

  were that many options that we have to [TS]

  figure this all out [TS]

  oftentimes you have to call somebody [TS]

  because the internet was either not a [TS]

  thing or brand new and you would [TS]

  eventually place the order over the [TS]

  phone and you have to quadruple check it [TS]

  to make sure they got it right and you [TS]

  have to get catalogs and blah blah blah [TS]

  but so much of that was so intense and [TS]

  in for me with such a bonding moment [TS]

  with my dad that we had to figure out [TS]

  the exact right computer [TS]

  that both of us could agree on and we [TS]

  had so many choices a raid in front of [TS]

  us and so many different decisions we [TS]

  have to make and although i'm so glad [TS]

  today that i don't have to do those [TS]

  sorts of things that that my data that i [TS]

  have maybe two or three options within [TS]

  the brand the kind of computer i want [TS]

  i'm still up i'm thankful for that time [TS]

  because it was really really awesome at [TS]

  that moment in such an exciting time to [TS]

  be in 2pcs was when you had so many [TS]

  options to customize so much but i don't [TS]

  know maybe for you John you just found [TS]

  that deplorable well then when you're [TS]

  done you got a pc at the end so is kind [TS]

  of back and I remember because I would [TS]

  go to the you guys probably do these [TS]

  things to him maybe a little before your [TS]

  time you go to like computer fares are [TS]

  like flea market type things where [TS]

  people would sell all the components to [TS]

  build your pc that's how I built the [TS]

  first pci built right and being you know [TS]

  that's that was I guess it was kind of [TS]

  like maybe before compusa and the super [TS]

  stories came like this is where you [TS]

  would go to pull your pc or just people [TS]

  people will have cases and drives and [TS]

  motherboards and just all the different [TS]

  components and it was just making around [TS]

  around 36 46 hours i remember these [TS]

  being big before like by the time the [TS]

  Pentiums around I feel like the super [TS]

  stores to start to come on and you would [TS]

  go there you just go to frys or [TS]

  something and get your pieces but these [TS]

  are more sort of low-rent people setting [TS]

  up tables buying parts from the Far East [TS]

  and just selling them to you know about [TS]

  a pentium two and one of those you could [TS]

  get you could go there you know what you [TS]

  were looking for you could go there and [TS]

  build yourself a pc at all sorts of [TS]

  parts and again that was the one of the [TS]

  big rally crisis like I can build this [TS]

  amazing computer they can run quick in [TS]

  this that and the other thing and look [TS]

  how cheaply I could do it and of course [TS]

  what you would end up with this is [TS]

  terrible mongrel looks like it was made [TS]

  assembled from pieces that you bought a [TS]

  computer fair which is exactly what it [TS]

  was [TS]

  how come on it wasn't it was just in the [TS]

  same and light 737 that everybody else [TS]

  had their with lots of different popular [TS]

  case i remember i was still going to [TS]

  computers went full high towers were [TS]

  thing did you ever get a full height [TS]

  that yeah actually the first one built [TS]

  was indeed a full-height shower because [TS]

  i want another drive bays [TS]

  I mean you can live in there like you [TS]

  make a little house is like a hawk said [TS]

  yeah [TS]

  remember how your computer's I i think [TS]

  the only time i had excitement about the [TS]

  phenomena together with my friends and [TS]

  watch them assemble their crap pcs with [TS]

  the part about the same part that I was [TS]

  excited about was I was excited to help [TS]

  them build their species i will say i [TS]

  want to go over their house and play pc [TS]

  games on it right on the head [TS]

  also I had later a little bit later i [TS]

  guess this was in the superstar when the [TS]

  dawning of the linux age minutes before [TS]

  that and linux that was exciting because [TS]

  all right everyone knows you can build a [TS]

  pc but you can build a unix computer [TS]

  from the same pieces that was a novel [TS]

  concept because before that the only way [TS]

  you got against computer was like any [TS]

  university and like you know son would [TS]

  sell to you for even more than a mac or [TS]

  whatever now it's like these same parts [TS]

  of the same flea market I can make a [TS]

  computer and run linux on and so now I'm [TS]

  not building a crappy pc i'm running a [TS]

  linux server that's going to connect to [TS]

  the internet and it's going to be [TS]

  amazing [TS]

  goodness [TS]

  any other thoughts market let's start [TS]

  with you on the apples 40th congrats i [TS]

  guess i don't know it's hard you know [TS]

  it's there such a big company now [TS]

  they've come so far it's it's kind of [TS]

  like saying you know the history of like [TS]

  GE like it [TS]

  they're so big that it's it's kind of [TS]

  hard to sum it up and and to see what's [TS]

  going to happen next [TS]

  i I just I hope that they continue to be [TS]

  Apple to take TQ to be a Polly to not [TS]

  lose their personality and I hope is a [TS]

  very strong future for the Mac because [TS]

  almost every thing we've talked about so [TS]

  far tonight in in this celebration of [TS]

  their history was not just the history [TS]

  of Apple but the history of specifically [TS]

  the mac and now Apple to a lot more [TS]

  things and I really hope the Mac doesn't [TS]

  get lost or neglected because it is so [TS]

  great and while there is obviously tons [TS]

  of room for people to be you doing their [TS]

  computing on iOS and other things I i do [TS]

  still think that these devices are not [TS]

  killing the mac and not replacing the [TS]

  mac it's just sit there just a new thing [TS]

  it's another thing that you could do [TS]

  in addition to or instead of if you want [TS]

  to but the mac itself I think is the [TS]

  core of all this stuff it's it's the [TS]

  home base it is the hub as they used to [TS]

  sell as they sell it by and I i really [TS]

  hope the mac has a bright future and I [TS]

  think it will and I i look forward to [TS]

  what that includes yeah i agree it's [TS]

  funny you're you're right in saying that [TS]

  we haven't really talked about iOS much [TS]

  and I think that's because I associate [TS]

  so much of like older Apple with the mac [TS]

  because naturally these things weren't [TS]

  existing but you know i have five [TS]

  stories about the ipad I've stories [TS]

  about the iphone but man I've really [TS]

  like using this as an opportunity to [TS]

  think about the mac and John final [TS]

  thoughts [TS]

  yeah we didn't really get to the other [TS]

  pillars every night they're kind of [TS]

  obvious that i get me the too close to [TS]

  home but I maybe I put in the notes [TS]

  maybe i'll talk about the imac a little [TS]

  bit next week but obviously after that [TS]

  you know you mentioned the ipod and of [TS]

  course you got the iphone we're in the [TS]

  obituary of apple if it was to die today [TS]

  the young age of 40 iphones line one [TS]

  right i mean it is such a sum of the [TS]

  larger much more successful revolution [TS]

  of the same kind as the mac in that what [TS]

  Apple said is here's the way the phones [TS]

  are going to work and it this time the [TS]

  world was much faster to go oh you're [TS]

  totally right that's it that's because [TS]

  that's what we're going to do you see [TS]

  all the pictures of like phones before [TS]

  and after the iphone again apples not [TS]

  first with a touchscreen phone not even [TS]

  first with mostly screen touchscreen [TS]

  phone but such a huge revolution so I [TS]

  feel like it's the mac maybe the ipod [TS]

  and then the iphone hot for 40 years of [TS]

  putting most companies don't even get a [TS]

  one hit on the caliber not hit not even [TS]

  just like popular product and one sort [TS]

  of revolution where it is a dividing [TS]

  line between what did computers look [TS]

  like before they had gooeys and what [TS]

  they look after and what was responsible [TS]

  for that transition [TS]

  what did phones look like before the [TS]

  iphone and what they look like after and [TS]

  ipod about the digital music players act [TS]

  like before and after maybe sort of [TS]

  popularized digital music player but [TS]

  again most companies don't even have a [TS]

  single one of those the biggest company [TS]

  in the world [TS]

  and have one Apple has to which is [TS]

  phenomenal to maybe 2.5 and that's what [TS]

  I think defines Apple its first 40 years [TS]

  that it proves that it's the company and [TS]

  then you get in but the Apple too and [TS]

  there you nobody did the line needs to [TS]

  put in their press the button on the [TS]

  press releases Apple ignited the [TS]

  personal computer revolution blah blah [TS]

  and yet the Apple to was important but [TS]

  you could say that if the if the Apple [TS]

  to didn't happen then maybe the IBM PC [TS]

  might everywhere they really that [TS]

  different but the mac really made [TS]

  something happen that the I don't think [TS]

  if the mac didn't exist we would have to [TS]

  wait much longer for the first big-girl [TS]

  computer and the same thing with a [TS]

  smartphone with the iphone didn't exist [TS]

  we probably would eventually got into a [TS]

  similar place but it would have taken [TS]

  way longer just look what I android look [TS]

  like in the days before the iphone will [TS]

  look like after so Apple is defined as [TS]

  this company that has done this [TS]

  miraculous thing multiple times and [TS]

  therefore take this magical place in our [TS]

  minds in our memories that it is not [TS]

  just a bunch of people who are in the [TS]

  right place at the right time and got [TS]

  lucky once that they somehow have [TS]

  figured out a way system for you know a [TS]

  system for greatness and then same is [TS]

  similar to picture or whatever with that [TS]

  system of steve jobs i guess we'll find [TS]

  out in 30 years ago you know it wasn't [TS]

  really assistant for greatness was [TS]

  really just as one amazing guy but I [TS]

  feel like there's been enough things [TS]

  that have happened and enough promise [TS]

  has been shown that i did it's not out [TS]

  of the question for Apple to have [TS]

  another iphone like product revolution [TS]

  somewhere in our lifetimes I'm like [TS]

  self-driving cars i'm pretty confident [TS]

  notice that is a feasible a feasible [TS]

  thing that could happen but if not if [TS]

  Apple goes out of business today I'd [TS]

  still say you would stand it up as one [TS]

  of the great companies ever to be on the [TS]

  face of the earth in all terms you could [TS]

  possibly measure financial success [TS]

  customer satisfaction which Tim loves [TS]

  mr. percent and just it an impact on the [TS]

  world like if you were to you know they [TS]

  were do one of those montages of the the [TS]

  you know the years that Apple has [TS]

  existed a lot of things that Apple did [TS]

  would appear in that montage not because [TS]

  it would be glorifying apple because [TS]

  they changed the way all of us live [TS]

  and.and work and had to help the thing [TS]

  that sucks about three sponsors this [TS]

  week [TS]

  hover blue apron and betterment and [TS]

  we'll see you next week [TS]

  now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

  mean to be in because it was accidental [TS]

  was accidental [TS]

  John research Marco and Casey would like [TS]

  because it was accidental was accidental [TS]

  you can find the show know today d p dot [TS]

  and it for twitter follow them [TS]

  yes byl ISS so that's Casey list and a [TS]

  co-pay rm20 Marco Arment our DC at [TS]

  Syracuse it [TS]

  now what is this ongoing I ongoing [TS]

  iCloud Drive pages TextEdit failures [TS]

  that some quick that we can just use his [TS]

  name for sure [TS]

  yeah that's a quickie guess it's just [TS]

  complaining but like I talked to this [TS]

  before that you really want to follow up [TS]

  that with with complaining what Apple [TS]

  think this fair point it's just it's [TS]

  just a minor like update on this thing [TS]

  we were talking about before like doing [TS]

  stuff and pages and it wouldn't let me [TS]

  save it's not me it's my daughter she [TS]

  wants to write things [TS]

  yeah you had some kind of like some kind [TS]

  of like sink conflict right yeah and I [TS]

  just I just wants to write plaintext [TS]

  more or less or style text and I don't [TS]

  know why I keep encouraging her to do [TS]

  this sort of the pages in the dark I [TS]

  said oh just launched pages and do that [TS]

  and then it wasn't even like I was [TS]

  trying to have read about our iPad [TS]

  anymore they gave up on that but this [TS]

  just a mac just a single mag open a [TS]

  document and she typed stop she likes [TS]

  the right thing so just got a bunch of [TS]

  writing paragraph you typed a bunch of [TS]

  stuff then it was time for dinner to get [TS]

  off the computer or something else [TS]

  should say before you go and she [TS]

  couldn't save your command s and gave [TS]

  some error and I'm like really it's a [TS]

  new untitled document created on a [TS]

  single computer with no thinking about [TS]

  whatsoever and I can't save and at that [TS]

  point my god just go and do your thing [TS]

  daddy will take care of this I couldn't [TS]

  take care of it and there I couldn't I [TS]

  couldn't save this document is an [TS]

  untitled document I i could not say that [TS]

  i had to copy and paste text out of it [TS]

  put into text edit and save it somewhere [TS]

  else and I don't know what the moral of [TS]

  the story is but I just it's slowly [TS]

  teaching me an important lesson like [TS]

  Marco and plugging his pc and and [TS]

  connecting up the mac that just just [TS]

  never use anything that touches iCloud [TS]

  or pages that were just as I don't know [TS]

  what teaching you teaching me to be sad [TS]

  and and it's it's a it's making the [TS]

  unsuccessful it showing my daughter [TS]

  anything about computers new document [TS]

  type words it's a [TS]

  type words it's a [TS]

  complete utter failure she just has to [TS]

  leave the room and when she comes back [TS]

  have to say don't use that program [TS]

  anymore just what I don't dumb ass daddy [TS]

  why it's just it's too sad for words to [TS]

  use and i had to use microsoft word [TS]

  that's what I did because you know when [TS]

  you make a new document according to [TS]

  type words in it you save it save the [TS]

  document pretty much every time i'm [TS]

  pretty sure saves document local disk [TS]

  and that's it [TS]

  I one of the problems with like you know [TS]

  as as we've gotten so much more advanced [TS]

  in the technology it's also gotten so [TS]

  much more complicated that the basics [TS]

  often don't work as reliable as they [TS]

  used to because it's not as basically [TS]

  you think it's basic you think I'm just [TS]

  saving a document to local disk but some [TS]

  that like it basically i mean if i want [TS]

  to put on my computer and for a second I [TS]

  thought pretty sure what happened is a [TS]

  lot of documents even text edit when you [TS]

  make a new document since it is like [TS]

  autosave enabled it will make the new [TS]

  document in your iCloud Drive like by [TS]

  default or maybe if that's the last [TS]

  place you saved or whatever so [TS]

  unbeknownst to you you think you're [TS]

  typing in a document that has not yet be [TS]

  saved but it has been saved it's gonna [TS]

  save in iCloud Drive you know and [TS]

  everything except text that has been [TS]

  doing that since like the very first [TS]

  cloud-enabled version you just open up [TS]

  and taking your document you don't know [TS]

  but it's just it's put an iCloud Drive [TS]

  and something is wrong with her specific [TS]

  iCloud drive connected to her Apple ID [TS]

  so again don't even think this is a [TS]

  systemic problem or a bug i think like [TS]

  something server-side and her iCloud [TS]

  Drive is hosed and like it poisons [TS]

  anything you put there and at that point [TS]

  like that that new document that you [TS]

  created was already essentially sort of [TS]

  autosave created in her iCloud Drive and [TS]

  trying to save it and give it a name [TS]

  gave some weird error like can't open [TS]

  untitled like it was trying to sort of [TS]

  might not make it open the document and [TS]

  then received under new name but it was [TS]

  already iCloud like driving factors if I [TS]

  had open pages and made new document [TS]

  such that it auto save their desktop i [TS]

  think everything would have been fine [TS]

  but it was too late i had a single [TS]

  window is called untitled one or [TS]

  whatever it's called and had the words [TS]

  in it [TS]

  and there was no action i could take [TS]

  other than copying pasting content of [TS]

  that window to get that thing saving to [TS]

  a file on disk like literally nothing [TS]

  this is a single computer no thinking [TS]

  involved and so I can kind of understand [TS]

  how it didn't work but like you said [TS]

  Margaret I know the basics of New York [TS]

  it's not basic [TS]

  I cloud a cloud ConnectedDrive synced by [TS]

  a background demon running on the thing [TS]

  with the you know document ubiquity and [TS]

  all these that's not basic at all it's [TS]

  far it looks basic but it's not it's not [TS]

  it's just it's fiendishly complicated if [TS]

  it works fine but if it doesn't regular [TS]

  people can't be expected to understand [TS]

  that all they know is i had saved a game [TS]

  in error dialog box and put me back into [TS]

  a window that would that was still [TS]

  unsaved and window call untitled you [TS]

  know you should have done no use the IRA [TS]

  Max's answer should have drove over to [TS]

  cracks s [TS]