The Accidental Tech Podcast

173: A Series of Heartbreaking Rejections


  but I put my photos and google photos oh [TS]

  yeah you know I finally ended up doing [TS]

  it because like that thing I just [TS]

  tweeted about my controller my [TS]

  playstation controller with the worn-out [TS]

  thing on the bottom [TS]

  mm-hmm i was trying to find the old [TS]

  picture like the original ones i wanted [TS]

  to the tweet like here's the new one [TS]

  yeah uh-huh and i could not find that [TS]

  picture i'm scrolling through my photos [TS]

  library I just like I could not find I [TS]

  couldn't even narrow down to like was [TS]

  trying to look at the release date [TS]

  destiny but I didn't get in the release [TS]

  date i'm scrolling and I know it's like [TS]

  one picture i could not find it so I'm [TS]

  like okay so to find one picture you [TS]

  upload your entire photo collection [TS]

  google photos and that was easier [TS]

  yes to fight because how else are you [TS]

  gonna find the one picture if I knew [TS]

  which photo upload like I have to upload [TS]

  the whole thing I want to try it anyway [TS]

  that's just push me over the edge that's [TS]

  amazing so as uploading to literally [TS]

  70,000 photos i'm typing in searches [TS]

  like as you can search while it's [TS]

  uploading trying to think of searches [TS]

  that will find this so i type in [TS]

  controller [TS]

  no matches ps4 no matches black plastic [TS]

  matches but none of the ones i wanted [TS]

  then I was thinking maybe it's not in my [TS]

  photo library maybe some other trapped [TS]

  in some iOS device so i start putting up [TS]

  and I think it was actually trapped in [TS]

  my phone so now i'm uploading from my [TS]

  phone like photos that appears again [TS]

  Tina has the library not me [TS]

  right so it's her photo things so [TS]

  uploading from google photos of Google's [TS]

  from our mac is pushing those pictures [TS]

  up but it's not pushing any of the [TS]

  pictures up from my phone so now I'm [TS]

  trying to push up my phone into the [TS]

  thing and I just had control into the [TS]

  search and found two pictures of [TS]

  gamecube controllers and a picture of my [TS]

  brother getting a playstation 2 in 2004 [TS]

  seriously it's magic [TS]

  it is but it still didn't find the damn [TS]

  picture i mean i found myself eventually [TS]

  because I figured out that i had tweeted [TS]

  it and i found the tweet based on [TS]

  searching the tweet so all that and it [TS]

  still didn't you still didn't actually [TS]

  find the 5th with 3 it found three [TS]

  controllers [TS]

  the problem is I don't know if that [TS]

  picture has been pushed tapenade the [TS]

  whole time we've been recording my phone [TS]

  has been in theory pushing photos up and [TS]

  I guessing that's where it is and the [TS]

  seven thousand photos that are on my [TS]

  phone anyway it did find pictures of [TS]

  controller so I have some help now we [TS]

  should do a little bit of John's [TS]

  favorite thing in the world we should do [TS]

  some follow-up and there's some very [TS]

  very sad follow-up there's not going to [TS]

  be a 5k monitor at WCC but we don't know [TS]

  but that's the rumor [TS]

  was there was there ever going to be the [TS]

  5k monitor was that really a strong we [TS]

  did a whole show last week all about all [TS]

  the hardware that we were excited for [TS]

  and then like immediately after that all [TS]

  the rumor sites said you know you're [TS]

  looking for a five-game honors with gpus [TS]

  forget it you're looking for new [TS]

  macbooks those might not even be there [TS]

  no hardware it's gonna be all about [TS]

  software don't get your hopes up and of [TS]

  course no one even bothered to reshoot [TS]

  the idea that they're going to make a [TS]

  new back progress don't care about that [TS]

  enough to even put on the Riverside yeah [TS]

  there's not gonna be any of those either [TS]

  so yesterday I was all helpful and now [TS]

  the prevalent rumors are all the [TS]

  hardware you hope for may still come but [TS]

  not at WTC that's not a huge surprise i [TS]

  mean the the nomadic prose is a little [TS]

  bit surprising but i would expect the [TS]

  display to come with an expert to the [TS]

  mac pro and whether it's the same time [TS]

  is the macbook pro or not who knows but [TS]

  it does seem like it's probably going to [TS]

  be a a high-end mostly pro products for [TS]

  a while I don't think a lot of people [TS]

  who are like mid-range buyers who have a [TS]

  13 macbook pro are going to be buying [TS]

  the very first Apple 5k display it's [TS]

  probably going to be expensive [TS]

  it's probably going to be you know [TS]

  there's this big special thing to [TS]

  require the brand-new computers i [TS]

  wouldn't expect this to be like just an [TS]

  average consumer release i would expect [TS]

  us to wait for the background to the mac [TS]

  pro but I could be wrong [TS]

  I i would think the opposite i would [TS]

  think that the whole purpose of this [TS]

  monitor is so people who buy macbook [TS]

  pros can have a really big screen when [TS]

  they said down at their desks and that [TS]

  the whole point of this entire product [TS]

  is that's why it's got a GPU inside so [TS]

  even our lowly macbooks that don't [TS]

  actually have a GPU that can drive it no [TS]

  problem [TS]

  the GPU is inside the screen is enough [TS]

  to drive it you're not going to play [TS]

  games on it or anything but it's just [TS]

  it's enough to actually drive that many [TS]

  pixels so now look at all these great [TS]

  laptops they're great laptops on the go [TS]

  and sit down at your desk and you have [TS]

  essentially a 5k imac style screen in [TS]

  front of you and they don't even mention [TS]

  the macro because who the hell cares [TS]

  about the mac pro because if this was [TS]

  like a regular update like when they [TS]

  when they went from 27 inch LED 227's [TS]

  thunderbolt display that was like okay [TS]

  we already know how to make screens this [TS]

  sighs we've been making them for a long [TS]

  for a few years for that point and [TS]

  before that we made 30 inch screens for [TS]

  even more years like this is no big deal [TS]

  it's like mostly existing technology put [TS]

  together in a new way in this case this [TS]

  is a 5k screen this is still very high [TS]

  Empress [TS]

  but there still are very few five [TS]

  countries in the market so you gotta [TS]

  figure out this is going to be expensive [TS]

  it's probably not going to be a thousand [TS]

  dollars it's probably gonna be a little [TS]

  more and even even if it was a thousand [TS]

  dollars that still compared to other [TS]

  monitors that people would have to put [TS]

  on investment that's that's still a [TS]

  pretty expensive monitor so I i would [TS]

  expect this to be a high-end thing at [TS]

  first and then maybe in a few years when [TS]

  they update it next to add whatever new [TS]

  you know screen construction technique [TS]

  developed by then then it'll be more [TS]

  consumer e but i would expect version [TS]

  want to be [TS]

  yeah i agree with that uh however I do [TS]

  think that there is some very very big [TS]

  demand for this say for example you are [TS]

  in iOS developer and say just for the [TS]

  sake of discussion you have an actual [TS]

  job and you go to an office and that [TS]

  office issues you a 15-inch macbook pro [TS]

  but they issue you to lenovo displays [TS]

  that are of unremarkable resolution and [TS]

  so every time you're running iOS [TS]

  simulator you're running it at like half [TS]

  size even for like an iphone 6 simulator [TS]

  so that can cause problems such as [TS]

  you're doing something with a [TS]

  uitableview and you don't want it to [TS]

  look like a uitableview you don't want [TS]

  any separators between all the high [TS]

  table these cells and when you're just [TS]

  looking at the simulator stationary the [TS]

  divider lines separator lines between [TS]

  each cell disappear because it's at half [TS]

  zoom and then suddenly you go and you [TS]

  start playing around with your UI [TS]

  tableview and suddenly these magical [TS]

  lines appear from nothingness and it's [TS]

  very freaking annoying because you wish [TS]

  you had noticed in the first place [TS]

  very not a very big deal but still [TS]

  annoying and then you come home to your [TS]

  beautiful 5k display and think to [TS]

  yourself wow [TS]

  would it be nice to have something like [TS]

  this at work so i didn't have to run the [TS]

  simulator at half height [TS]

  I mean just hypothetically anyway I [TS]

  would kill for a thunderbolt retina [TS]

  display i would kill both of you for a [TS]

  thunderbolt display thanks at work hard [TS]

  yeah i know you are on I don't think [TS]

  work would pay for it because I agree [TS]

  with you it'll probably be very [TS]

  expensive but man would that be awesome [TS]

  Jericho and before the entire internet [TS]

  or writes me I i have the two displays [TS]

  like and I have a standing desk so I run [TS]

  my macbook pro in clamshell mode [TS]

  yes I know you don't think that's a good [TS]

  idea yes I'm aware that there's heat [TS]

  potential heat problems yes I know the [TS]

  simulator would be able to run full [TS]

  height if i did use the onboard display [TS]

  I understand all those things I I'm my [TS]

  own man and i do what i want to do all [TS]

  right which one of you decided you [TS]

  wanted to talk about the iphone SE you [TS]

  know it's all about it's all like me to [TS]

  add follow-up to the show yeah it was a [TS]

  big as a lot of people sent us this [TS]

  follow-up it last week we talked about [TS]

  the upcoming iPhone and how it might [TS]

  look very similar to the 6 and 6s and if [TS]

  that was a big deal and one of the [TS]

  ending points was like this is their [TS]

  third shot at the same form factor and [TS]

  if they do a really good job like the [TS]

  second second iteration phones usually [TS]

  are really good and the third one could [TS]

  be even better and we talked about all [TS]

  the reasons that might be and a lot of [TS]

  people said hey the iphone SE is [TS]

  basically the third shot at the same for [TS]

  rfactor albeit separated in time by you [TS]

  know by quite a few other models in [TS]

  between but it really is the third shot [TS]

  at five style form factor i don't think [TS]

  the SE change that much about the case [TS]

  like it's not like the second successive [TS]

  being like les bendiga and less slippery [TS]

  good to you know trying to do minut [TS]

  changes you might not even notice but [TS]

  it's still improving on the six does the [TS]

  SEC improve on the 5s case in any way [TS]

  other than possibly being cheaper to [TS]

  manufacture because they didn't have the [TS]

  shiny chamfered edge around it [TS]

  gosh yeah I don't remember but i think [TS]

  there's nothing i can think of and I [TS]

  guess different colors but anyway [TS]

  everyone loves a phone i see i don't [TS]

  know if it's because the third shot of [TS]

  the same form factor but it is a [TS]

  precedent for doing doing a phone that [TS]

  they had two models experience with and [TS]

  doing it again and they can do it even [TS]

  better [TS]

  alright and yet another instance of [TS]

  lowercase M act 0 capital OS mac OS as [TS]

  husbands [TS]

  yeah that's exactly how you pronounce it [TS]

  lowercase M back in echo s yeah that's [TS]

  how you pronounce it had been seen in [TS]

  the wild but apparently has been [TS]

  killed and brought back to the farm well [TS]

  i think i've seen it before it with a [TS]

  capital m and some like apple thing it [TS]

  just looks like they forgot the space or [TS]

  another thing makes sense that anyway [TS]

  they hadn't seen before an apple stuff [TS]

  with the capital and I think quickly [TS]

  removed as we're recording this right [TS]

  now or you can click on the URL that [TS]

  were pasted into the chatroom you would [TS]

  see an official apple page that lists [TS]

  will not [TS]

  it's already been changed already [TS]

  checked it that you like five minutes [TS]

  before the show started [TS]

  well is is there a spy in our document [TS]

  you know it was this is a 9to5 mac it [TS]

  was tweeted all over the place is not a [TS]

  secret URL that we just figured out like [TS]

  I guess yeah they're on top i was i [TS]

  purposely check just before we [TS]

  reconnected the sky to call I wonder [TS]

  think change it like nope still there [TS]

  and I copied and pasted it right that [TS]

  document into the notes mere moments ago [TS]

  but apparently the little elves are [TS]

  really fast anyway that's probably a [TS]

  fairly telling slip up because when you [TS]

  have the list of us all in order like [TS]

  that you know iOS Mac OS TV us and watch [TS]

  us they all look like the same when you [TS]

  write them like that and I know if it [TS]

  turns out they don't rename it like this [TS]

  this will be a weird series of slip-ups [TS]

  yeah i think at this point it's over [TS]

  that's that's the name period if you [TS]

  don't like it [TS]

  sorry I really hear the name macbook [TS]

  when like the very first macbook and [TS]

  macbook pro I really hated the name [TS]

  macbook at the powerbook was such a [TS]

  better name so it still is a better name [TS]

  and macbook still has a terrible man [TS]

  it's still I agree but I got used to it [TS]

  and now I don't care you know so that's [TS]

  something that if you if you hate [TS]

  lowercase mac OS okay you know it's [TS]

  gonna suck for a little while and then [TS]

  you're gonna move on and life will go on [TS]

  our first sponsor tonight is hover go to [TS]

  hover com and use promo code this week [TS]

  k 56 flex at checkout to save ten [TS]

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  it was like a few successes of my coupon [TS]

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  for project go to hover they make it [TS]

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  if you want you can email them of course [TS]

  you can also call them on the phone and [TS]

  an actual person will pick up the phone [TS]

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  it's amazing check it out today hover [TS]

  dot-com and use the promo code [TS]

  k 56 flex at checkout to save ten [TS]

  percent off your first purchase thanks [TS]

  to her for sponsoring our show so i'm [TS]

  happy to report that Apple apparently [TS]

  knew that I had not spent the time to [TS]

  figure out my WWDC predictions yet and [TS]

  has decided to drop some very [TS]

  interesting news and thus me take away [TS]

  most of the time that we're gonna be [TS]

  able to talk about Doug predictions and [TS]

  instead well we'll just have to talk [TS]

  about some app store changes so thank [TS]

  you people at Apple for timing it [TS]

  appropriately because I haven't thought [TS]

  about my depth of predictions yet and [TS]

  you can hear me fumble about it in [TS]

  probably about an hour and a half but [TS]

  then Marco had to go and ruin it by [TS]

  having an entire podcast about this [TS]

  earlier today so he's all got all these [TS]

  thoughts out of a system already about [TS]

  this [TS]

  oh yeah cuz all my thoughts on this [TS]

  totally fit in 30 minutes well it's your [TS]

  own fault for having a short while I [TS]

  save minutes 31 through 90 for you guys [TS]

  haha alright so what we're talking about [TS]

  is that phil schiller went to I think [TS]

  was the verge that broke the news is [TS]

  that correct it was a whole bunch of [TS]

  sites actually I saw it on a loop first [TS]

  actually yeah wewe my twitter feed which [TS]

  is now the substitute RSS the loop is [TS]

  the first one that tweeted about it and [TS]

  i think i saw the verge next or maybe [TS]

  group after that [TS]

  yeah loop verge Gruber Telegraph had 1i [TS]

  think that was it that was all the ones [TS]

  I saw although be it's actually like who [TS]

  who got this story and who didn't I [TS]

  don't know how they made those decisions [TS]

  but you could probably read something [TS]

  into the favorability of the various [TS]

  outlets based on who got this [TS]

  yeah it was so basically the story is [TS]

  that there are some substantial changes [TS]

  to the appstore that are happening now [TS]

  so the first one I think is it gimme [TS]

  that [TS]

  first one is these really suspiciously [TS]

  fast a preview times that we've seen the [TS]

  last few weeks [TS]

  this is not just a fluke it is not an [TS]

  accident and it is apparently not [TS]

  temporary [TS]

  Apple has officially acknowledged that [TS]

  these things are real that yes indeed a [TS]

  preview is much faster they they have [TS]

  made some changes to allow it to be [TS]

  faster and to probably stay faster and [TS]

  that is really good because before it [TS]

  was like well this could be an accident [TS]

  that you know it just happens to be [TS]

  really fast but it will you know if they [TS]

  don't mention it ever then i could [TS]

  probably go back at any time but now [TS]

  that they've mentioned it in public [TS]

  they've they've like brag about how good [TS]

  this is it is way more likely i think to [TS]

  to stay this way or order for this to be [TS]

  the new target standard rather than just [TS]

  a fluke i wonder if i'll get a WMD slot [TS]

  now maybe like they've and by the way [TS]

  before we even continue with these [TS]

  things that the very fact that all [TS]

  everything we're going to talk about [TS]

  these apps are changes is being [TS]

  announced now like days before WWDC but [TS]

  presumably you know not saving it for WC [TS]

  of this lot of speculation why that [TS]

  maybe the course the party line is we [TS]

  have so much good stuff to tell you [TS]

  about WWE just just wouldn't fit so here [TS]

  a couple days early here is this news [TS]

  and the more pessimistic take is there's [TS]

  enough in this announcement to cause [TS]

  discussion consternation and worry among [TS]

  developers in addition to like [TS]

  excitement or whatever that if this was [TS]

  in the keynote this is all people will [TS]

  be talking about afterwards and Apple [TS]

  wants people to come out of the [TS]

  community not not talking about App [TS]

  Store pricing but instead talking about [TS]

  insert thing that they're going to [TS]

  announce yeah I mean it's AII think [TS]

  there's a few different takes on this [TS]

  that are plausible certainly a [TS]

  pessimistic take of like well developers [TS]

  are gonna hate these changes i don't [TS]

  think that was it honestly because i [TS]

  think most of these changes are good but [TS]

  not hate them but that they will be [TS]

  talking about them they'll be a [TS]

  top-of-mind for developers is not you [TS]

  know it goes towards RWC being yet to [TS]

  developers conference monies key notice [TS]

  for the public and they didn't want they [TS]

  want developer oriented news dominating [TS]

  their let's talk to the public one time [TS]

  a year that's not a special event thing [TS]

  well that's the thing too I think we [TS]

  have to realize like yeah there are 5000 [TS]

  developers who watched that keynote in [TS]

  that room [TS]

  and there's another you know another [TS]

  handful of thousands of developers [TS]

  impact knows who probably probably [TS]

  another like 10 to 15,000 developers who [TS]

  are watching a keynote livestream to [TS]

  various places and there's also like [TS]

  thousands and thousands thousands of [TS]

  people who just walked the keynote is [TS]

  their apple fans are their apple [TS]

  customers or their press or whatever and [TS]

  and then whatever is announced in the [TS]

  keynote gets reported on mainstream news [TS]

  gets reported all over the web is [TS]

  reported on TV on like CNN and stuff [TS]

  this is a mass media event that happens [TS]

  to be the beating of of a developer [TS]

  conference so the focus of whatever is [TS]

  in that main keynote is going to be more [TS]

  mainstream then just talking to [TS]

  developers you know like that thats why [TS]

  i like you know there it was also kind [TS]

  of surprising that Swift was controlling [TS]

  the key because it was so like technical [TS]

  you know even though is barely unveiled [TS]

  but it was but you know generally you [TS]

  know you don't see like source code on [TS]

  you know in the in the key in the main [TS]

  keynote you you don't hear about a lot [TS]

  of low level changes here but some maybe [TS]

  we'll be like one of those like word [TS]

  cloud slides there's like a whole bunch [TS]

  of little words on a slide and everyone [TS]

  like rush take a picture of it can wait [TS]

  there's a whole bunch of stuff buried in [TS]

  there and they just kind of move on and [TS]

  tell you more detail later like after [TS]

  the public has gone away and tell you in [TS]

  the session so you know that that [TS]

  keynote is a is mostly a consumer event [TS]

  is barely a developer keynote and so it [TS]

  could be that this stuff is really [TS]

  mostly only relevant to developers and [TS]

  so they and the stuff that they had that [TS]

  they are leaving in the keynote is just [TS]

  more than this is Apple summer [TS]

  announcements and getting people ready [TS]

  for the big stuff that's happening in [TS]

  the fall so you know that they're just [TS]

  like how last year they spent so much [TS]

  time on Apple music and developers could [TS]

  do nothing with that and that turns out [TS]

  neither could the public haha great but [TS]

  like it was like that this is mostly a [TS]

  consumer advantages and so you know [TS]

  having some developer stuff that's [TS]

  that's of you know possibly large [TS]

  importance happen outside that main [TS]

  keynote is totally understandable [TS]

  absolutely the appstore of your times [TS]

  may or may not going to slide if they [TS]

  did I mean you can do it the one brief [TS]

  slide as we talked about earlier in the [TS]

  week review times are down isn't felt [TS]

  really great everybody loves it and the [TS]

  answer to the question of we discuss a [TS]

  couple weeks ago if things are actually [TS]

  faster how might they do this we did [TS]

  talk about many possibilities that they [TS]

  could change the rules that govern how [TS]

  they do things that they can have better [TS]

  automated tools and there are some [TS]

  rumors of management changes i think [TS]

  there was a couple stories about that on [TS]

  the web [TS]

  earlier the answer from phil schiller [TS]

  when he did his media tour was basically [TS]

  everything we said contributed to the [TS]

  thing that's all its everything to [TS]

  improvement on the Apple staffing [TS]

  changes in policy changes i think what [TS]

  group are listed so there is no one [TS]

  thing that is making this faster it's a [TS]

  series of changes but some up to the the [TS]

  status of their touting now which is [TS]

  fifty percent of apps are reviewed [TS]

  within 24 hours and ninety percent [TS]

  within 48 hours [TS]

  yeah this is this is awesome it's just [TS]

  so so awesome [TS]

  yeah I've been stunned by this and I [TS]

  think it's a good thing that the two [TS]

  improvements and just trusting their [TS]

  tools to suss out any like private api [TS]

  violations and crashes potentially [TS]

  things like that i mean trusting your [TS]

  tools that's a good thing I mean this is [TS]

  why i write unit tests mm-hmm that makes [TS]

  one of the other no i mean like it to me [TS]

  like this is it this kind of just shows [TS]

  the potential of you know before Phil [TS]

  took over the app store [TS]

  I don't wanna you know throw anybody [TS]

  under the bus or anything but it sure [TS]

  seemed like it was not progressing at [TS]

  all and that basically nobody was [TS]

  working on progressing it and filter / [TS]

  not that long ago and a lot of stuff is [TS]

  changing and a lot of progress is being [TS]

  made for the better so I'm kind of [TS]

  excited like if all this change in such [TS]

  a short time while there's been kind of [TS]

  you know finally somebody literally [TS]

  running the store what else is gonna [TS]

  change you know if this is a a and even [TS]

  you know in the big picture even if some [TS]

  of these things don't work out or don't [TS]

  do you know it don't do as well as they [TS]

  wanted or whatever or you know make [TS]

  things harder for in certain ways or an [TS]

  easier in other ways whatever happens [TS]

  with these changes there that they're [TS]

  doing they're making changes [TS]

  that's amazing because for like eight [TS]

  years they changed almost nothing [TS]

  so this is this is real progress and [TS]

  this is a a rapid and dramatic change [TS]

  almost all if not all for the better you [TS]

  know the the again the pessimistic take [TS]

  is this was management change like [TS]

  Phil's just taken over control of your [TS]

  previously didn't have control over and [TS]

  when you switch in your manager on to a [TS]

  new project and it's important and they [TS]

  want to make a good showing they want to [TS]

  come out of the gate and say okay you [TS]

  put me in charge of this and in short [TS]

  order i did these things that made it [TS]

  better isn't that great [TS]

  that's a pressing need within a typical [TS]

  you know bozo corporation which we [TS]

  assume Apple isn't but anyway that's one [TS]

  person taking the other one is we were [TS]

  all excited when they finally turned [TS]

  their attention to the mac pro that when [TS]

  they collected for a long time and came [TS]

  up with this amazing radical new [TS]

  computer that shows they really do care [TS]

  about the macro pro and surely this [TS]

  means that the mac pro is off to a new [TS]

  brighter healthier future involving lots [TS]

  of updates and lots of future changes [TS]

  not that I'm predicting this for the app [TS]

  store but if you want to be pessimistic [TS]

  about it and and you know it is possible [TS]

  that there's enough is enough [TS]

  the reasons why this might be a bunch of [TS]

  big dramatic changes that have been a [TS]

  long time coming sort of like pent-up [TS]

  demand and they'll let this stew for a [TS]

  year not because they don't care anymore [TS]

  but even just like like the idea that [TS]

  they're going to be court sort of let's [TS]

  try a bunch of things and fail faster [TS]

  whatever like I think their appetite for [TS]

  turn in the app store rules has [TS]

  obviously increased but I don't think [TS]

  it's that great so I would expect this [TS]

  set of rules to possibly be tweaked and [TS]

  sussed out over the next year and then [TS]

  maybe you know I think we'd all be happy [TS]

  if every year they revisited the rules [TS]

  of the store and so how they did for a [TS]

  year because you can't really change it [TS]

  every week what you can change in [TS]

  response to you don't have enough data [TS]

  to know whether it's a good idea or bad [TS]

  idea so unlike perhaps the operating [TS]

  systems a yearly pretty regularly [TS]

  scheduled update to appstore rules is a [TS]

  reasonable idea if you tried to update [TS]

  the rules radically more often than that [TS]

  I think it would be too much turn for [TS]

  developers [TS]

  I mean even if they change the change me [TS]

  with the store every two years just like [TS]

  more than once every eight years [TS]

  yes that would still be like radically [TS]

  more progressive than the way it's been [TS]

  all this time [TS]

  yeah that bundles right sort of the [TS]

  other good thing by the way about all [TS]

  these changes are going to go through is [TS]

  they all apply to all stores [TS]

  including the mac app store the TV a TV [TS]

  OS store [TS]

  yeah alright so that's a that's faster [TS]

  few times good good for Phil the next [TS]

  thing is subscription pricing available [TS]

  for all app types which is by far the [TS]

  most interesting and most fraught with [TS]

  doubt announcement across were only like [TS]

  you know one day into this announcement [TS]

  but the the gist of it is that hot in it [TS]

  previously if you want to sell an app on [TS]

  the App Store the descriptions that had [TS]

  to be a subscription to some kind of [TS]

  media thing like television or like a [TS]

  new service or audio or whatever and now [TS]

  subscription pricing is open to all [TS]

  kinds of apps and so a quick naive [TS]

  reading of that could be like great then [TS]

  basically no more restrictions [TS]

  previously I had to follow the special [TS]

  rules to be super map now anybody can [TS]

  just say i want to have to use [TS]

  encryption app and then you start [TS]

  reading the rules and you like is that [TS]

  what they're saying that any app can be [TS]

  a significant apples you just say that [TS]

  any app can potentially be a [TS]

  subscription happened that is the [TS]

  current source of data generated one day [TS]

  and I'm sure Apple clarify sure things [TS]

  will get worked out but right now [TS]

  there's still some doubt about it so [TS]

  it's hard to know entirely how to feel [TS]

  about this because all the debates about [TS]

  does this enable sustainable development [TS]

  is this you know all the things the mark [TS]

  I'm sure talked about on his a developer [TS]

  podcast whose name I can never remember [TS]

  earlier today it we don't know if this [TS]

  is going like should we indulge in in [TS]

  speculation about how this model might [TS]

  work particular particular kinds of apps [TS]

  before we even know whether Apple will [TS]

  allow it [TS]

  yes mom we should indulge in that yes [TS]

  we're yeah because I mean look at so if [TS]

  you did you just look at this as like [TS]

  the most conservative reading of the [TS]

  rules that they put on that page then [TS]

  it's basically no change from what we [TS]

  already had that policy was I mean there [TS]

  are some technical changes but [TS]

  policy-wise it would say you don't have [TS]

  to be a media [TS]

  yeah but you already didn't have to be a [TS]

  media app like it's papers has a kind of [TS]

  description now everyone has had it [TS]

  forever [TS]

  instapaper counts as a news thing [TS]

  Evernote no it doesn't cause it's not [TS]

  sure when it believe me i look at this [TS]

  back when the woods when these first [TS]

  launched in the in the days of newsstand [TS]

  when newsstand launch [TS]

  nothing 2011 or something like that it [TS]

  was only newsstand apps and then shortly [TS]

  afterwards I think maybe like a year [TS]

  afterwards it became available to any [TS]

  app that was delivering periodic content [TS]

  of some kind but it could have to be [TS]

  like like issues or episodes and had to [TS]

  be like you know they couldn't be for [TS]

  like I guess it couldn't be that we [TS]

  don't know but like if you're delivering [TS]

  video because HBO going everything has a [TS]

  lot of stuff outside it could have been [TS]

  but it had to be like episodic content [TS]

  that you know it couldn't just be like [TS]

  you just have access to this thing [TS]

  forever but it could be like you have [TS]

  access to this new thing every week or [TS]

  month or whatever and then that then [TS]

  quickly got like semi relaxed into kind [TS]

  of the where it stayed between then and [TS]

  now which is you could kind of do it for [TS]

  any kind of recurring service but it was [TS]

  it was risky weather app would approve [TS]

  you or not because the definitions [TS]

  around it were fairly vague as to what [TS]

  would qualify but it was clear that you [TS]

  have to have some kind of recurring [TS]

  service like some kind of you know [TS]

  backing web service that had like you [TS]

  know cloud storage or content available [TS]

  on the service or something it was it [TS]

  was it like most apps would not qualify [TS]

  for that but all that language is still [TS]

  there though everything you just said [TS]

  that that's the problem so I I know like [TS]

  any like Branson Missouri compose [TS]

  basically asking clarification on this [TS]

  and because like if you read Phil's [TS]

  comments in these interviews [TS]

  it sounds like now any app can do this [TS]

  no matter what but if you look at that [TS]

  page it looks like that's not the case [TS]

  looks like it's still the old rules of [TS]

  it and it depends a lot like the [TS]

  interpretations of some words on the [TS]

  page like it has like all apps are [TS]

  eligible to use this but it's only up [TS]

  but it's appropriate for this is for [TS]

  these types of roles so does that mean [TS]

  they would approve it for inappropriate [TS]

  uses it you know it it depends on how [TS]

  things are but you know I think what's [TS]

  going to happen is like most times when [TS]

  a new app review policy gets put into [TS]

  place and details aren't quite worked [TS]

  out yet [TS]

  what's almost certain to happen is [TS]

  either in the next few days are going to [TS]

  edit the language and that page to be [TS]

  more clear and to like firmly fall on [TS]

  one side or the other or [TS]

  unfortunately more likely they're gonna [TS]

  figure it out through rejections later [TS]

  this fall and then we'll kind of sort of [TS]

  policy and that that would suck i hope [TS]

  that's how they do it but you know I [TS]

  because phil is like the guy on top of a [TS]

  preview you know one in the grand scheme [TS]

  of things and because his actual [TS]

  statements really strongly say otherwise [TS]

  than that page i'm guessing this was [TS]

  probably like a deviated thing [TS]

  internally until very recently and they [TS]

  they just kinda haven't worked out like [TS]

  the details yet but i don't know is for [TS]

  peace from marketing they always want to [TS]

  put on to give you the bright side of it [TS]

  that's what this whole role is let me [TS]

  tell you what's great about this so even [TS]

  if it was exactly as you said where [TS]

  maybe they'll reject it maybe they won't [TS]

  he's not gonna come and tell you that is [TS]

  gonna come and tell you it's open to [TS]

  everybody and then sort of allow the [TS]

  chips fall away and I think they did [TS]

  update the copy on this page because a [TS]

  lot of the language is about all you [TS]

  have to have like a you know content or [TS]

  services or you know issues or whatever [TS]

  but then certain sense is explicitly [TS]

  called exactly what we're talking about [TS]

  like this is no like many freemium apps [TS]

  successful auto-renewal subscription [TS]

  apps operated services that are [TS]

  continuously supported and often require [TS]

  sustained content development that would [TS]

  be like you get a new you know a new [TS]

  level every week or something for a game [TS]

  or feature enhancements to retain users [TS]

  feature enhancements is exactly what [TS]

  we're talking about we're saying hey I [TS]

  want to add a new feature to my app that [TS]

  you use to take notes with there is no [TS]

  service there's not even a sink service [TS]

  let's say there is no that's just an [TS]

  application that runs on your phone [TS]

  I just want to add feature enhancements [TS]

  can I charge you a subscription for that [TS]

  it's right there in the language but [TS]

  that every other thing on the page it [TS]

  just leads you back into the hall but of [TS]

  course you have to be providing a [TS]

  service or you know periodic content or [TS]

  whatever so it's I don't think feature [TS]

  enhancements was there before I like [TS]

  that it does not real to those pages of [TS]

  things are on the pages right yeah but I [TS]

  don't think that language so someone put [TS]

  that those words there but then didn't [TS]

  get on didn't like it's like the rest of [TS]

  the page doesn't agree with its your [TS]

  right kind of looks like it might be [TS]

  conflicted but again the pessimistic [TS]

  take and pessimistic not because we're [TS]

  just mean people but founded on past [TS]

  history like the past has been very much [TS]

  like the rules are kind of vague it will [TS]

  will nail it down through a series of [TS]

  heartbreaking rejections to a bunch of [TS]

  small developers [TS]

  and then when you see their bodies fall [TS]

  below you like oh don't do that what [TS]

  that guy did [TS]

  don't do that that's a waste of time [TS]

  they can put those guys wait six months [TS]

  in their app can get on the store right [TS]

  you know you know it's gonna be James [TS]

  Thompson again he gets he gets like the [TS]

  worst luck with a preview get sick you [TS]

  know it's gonna be like james thompson [TS]

  come to have a calculator app and you [TS]

  have a subscription and each month you [TS]

  get a new number [TS]

  so once you have all the digits 10 plus [TS]

  two operators so he's like the stop [TS]

  making sense of calculator apps i see [TS]

  you notice [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah I I i think that if I [TS]

  were apple i would do pretty much [TS]

  exactly what they did which is i would [TS]

  write the the verbiage verbiage however [TS]

  you pronounce the word for biaggi I [TS]

  never be right I would write the text [TS]

  such that it leaves plenty of room for [TS]

  Apple to put the kibosh on anything that [TS]

  they don't think is appropriate but that [TS]

  doesn't mean they'll actually wield that [TS]

  hammer it just means the Hammers [TS]

  available to them if they so desire [TS]

  would you do that because you because [TS]

  your apple and you're trying to act like [TS]

  a big jerk because that's what that's [TS]

  like let's write it real vague to [TS]

  believe everyone and out so we retain [TS]

  all the power and can make arbitrary [TS]

  decisions features know Apple decide [TS]

  what you want now and if you can't [TS]

  decide even to be honest about that this [TS]

  is the worst like if you get like [TS]

  seriously it's their job to come up with [TS]

  a policy do you want people to be able [TS]

  to charge money for an app that just [TS]

  adds new features every year and has no [TS]

  backend services decide that before you [TS]

  write the policy don't ride in biggest [TS]

  well how are they going to whatever [TS]

  mechanism they're going to use to make [TS]

  that decision later when they decided to [TS]

  reject someone zap do that now is a [TS]

  thought experiment don't wait until it [TS]

  comes it's so asinine to not i mean if [TS]

  they're in a hurry and they have to put [TS]

  the sound they have decided fine but I'm [TS]

  saying like that is a general policy to [TS]

  like retain reserve the right to like be [TS]

  vague and just let people send things in [TS]

  and then decide then don't wait for that [TS]

  to happen with relapse the run a thought [TS]

  experiment and decide now they should be [TS]

  able to decide i think very clearly is [TS]

  this a valid thing to do for just plain [TS]

  old apps that ad features that have no [TS]

  back-end service and no peer at content [TS]

  yes or no pick something now write it [TS]

  down clearly i I'm not even a developer [TS]

  but i'm super angered by [TS]

  inability to communicate clearly on this [TS]

  topic and if it's just an error in the [TS]

  text into fixing three days then find [TS]

  you no good on Apple you know i should [TS]

  give them break it's only been a day but [TS]

  I don't buy that whole this is what i [TS]

  would do too because it remains maximum [TS]

  power for me like that's gross right and [TS]

  and the big thing is like this you know [TS]

  in addition to you know hurting all the [TS]

  biggest developers to her and try this [TS]

  and hurting you know new stuff what this [TS]

  is really going to hurt if they can [TS]

  clarify this or if they don't clarify [TS]

  this or if it stays in in the more [TS]

  restrictive interpretation of these [TS]

  things which is only apps with services [TS]

  and content stuff then with this won't [TS]

  apply to things like a pro content [TS]

  editing or pro content creation apps and [TS]

  that seems like a perfect candidate for [TS]

  subscription pricing in the app store [TS]

  something like you know if you're gonna [TS]

  have like a pro image editor or pro [TS]

  audio editor or you know the content [TS]

  creating a drawing pro drawing apps like [TS]

  pro apps usually don't have backing web [TS]

  services usually don't have like a [TS]

  magazine built into them like what would [TS]

  you can have a backing drm service like [TS]

  i was saying before shot don't have a [TS]

  back in service but it does just for DRM [TS]

  but I guess you don't know what has all [TS]

  this be hansberry's nobody wants you [TS]

  know it pro apps are a perfect use for [TS]

  first subscription pricing on an iOS [TS]

  because it kind of solves free trials it [TS]

  completely in my opinion solves upgrades [TS]

  if you can get people to pay and the [TS]

  people who are most likely to pay our [TS]

  people who use pro apps to get advanced [TS]

  functionality on things like their ipad [TS]

  pro is that they're like desperate for [TS]

  amazing software on it seems like this [TS]

  is the most clear need a first edition [TS]

  pricing is like you know a video apps on [TS]

  the appletv be pro stuff on the ipad and [TS]

  if they don't clarify this rule I don't [TS]

  know it would be royally stupid for any [TS]

  pro app developers to start developing [TS]

  their pro a porter pro app over to the [TS]

  ipad or the iphone is you know suppose [TS]

  you make like an amazing you know music [TS]

  app for for pros or if profoto avenue [TS]

  you bring it to ipad you won't want to [TS]

  charge like 40 bucks a year or something [TS]

  and then [TS]

  oh you can't do it rejected sorry you [TS]

  don't have a web service like that's [TS]

  horrible and and most smart business [TS]

  people won't even start the development [TS]

  too [TS]

  clarified so it seems like it this is a [TS]

  great way to incent or incentivize [TS]

  thanks to phil's quotes on these on [TS]

  these websites it looks like incense is [TS]

  actually a word I'd I thought the same [TS]

  thing I was like wait I thought that was [TS]

  incentivize I guess not I guess I'm [TS]

  wrong yeah I looked it up it's in [TS]

  Apple's dictionary on on on max so I [TS]

  assume it's a real so I think you're [TS]

  thinking of em a cost that's what I'm [TS]

  thinking about his ex people going to [TS]

  hit a solo voy [TS]

  yes anyway but yeah I get so anyway that [TS]

  it this is a great incentive for pro app [TS]

  development on iOS or wood or would be [TS]

  if they were clear about it and I'm like [TS]

  and tributaries it's not as if this rule [TS]

  this new rule necessarily needs to be [TS]

  the thing that solves the problem we've [TS]

  identified as a potential problem it [TS]

  could be that these changes just not [TS]

  addressing that which is fine too but if [TS]

  they think they're addressing it for all [TS]

  the reasons morrow said they're not [TS]

  really because pro at the reason perhaps [TS]

  are scared away from other you know the [TS]

  ipad pro and to some degree these days [TS]

  you know the mac app store some degree [TS]

  heat [TS]

  yeah well all apps are so you can tell [TS]

  us just because the process but I'm it [TS]

  that they don't think they can't be sure [TS]

  that there is a business model that will [TS]

  support sustained development of a pro [TS]

  application that's and because they're [TS]

  so expensive because they're you know [TS]

  because the abbey barrier to entry of [TS]

  like what does it take to make a real [TS]

  full-featured pro application at the [TS]

  gate that takes a lot of money initially [TS]

  you have to have a plan going forward [TS]

  you could try like I think it might be [TS]

  fun to make it you know a silly free [TS]

  play game you know or 99-cent thing like [TS]

  you can try that and it can be a [TS]

  throwaway thing if you have the money to [TS]

  spare but if you're going to embark on [TS]

  making a pro app you have to have a [TS]

  solid go-to-market strategy where you [TS]

  understand how it's going to be sold how [TS]

  you're going to get money [TS]

  how are you going to fund development [TS]

  are you gonna make the money back that [TS]

  you spend on it and how you're going to [TS]

  continue to pay for it and that same [TS]

  uncertainty still exists if these rules [TS]

  are still fake like is that this rule [TS]

  doesn't necessarily have to make that [TS]

  possible but when i first heard no [TS]

  subscription pricing opened all that's [TS]

  the first thing I thought of was finally [TS]

  there's a way to sustain you know [TS]

  basically I've had pro applications [TS]

  expensive to develop full-featured [TS]

  applications that are important for [TS]

  people to do their jobs [TS]

  aren't just put on the app store and [TS]

  then forgotten about and like you make [TS]

  your money back and then you move on to [TS]

  the next thing that's what this seems [TS]

  like and again a lot of language and [TS]

  almost everything phil has said makes [TS]

  that clear a lot of the other language [TS]

  makes it not clear so hopefully this [TS]

  will be clarified you know again where [TS]

  we are less than 24 hours after this [TS]

  announcement so maybe we're being too [TS]

  harsh but I just find it frustrating to [TS]

  for the press tour to be leaning so [TS]

  heavily on all our hopes and dreams and [TS]

  in the actual text of all the web pages [TS]

  to be just making everything is clear as [TS]

  mud again you know maybe it's freaky [TS]

  friday or i guess since it's Wednesday [TS]

  wacky wednesday because Marco is [TS]

  SuperDuper enthusiastic and chipper [TS]

  about this and I'm I don't know man I [TS]

  don't know how i feel about this and I [TS]

  think the reason I'm having hauling a [TS]

  little bit is because looking at this [TS]

  from the perspective of a very cheap [TS]

  consumer who is happy to pay for apps [TS]

  for sure but I don't want every app that [TS]

  is even remotely decent to think of [TS]

  themselves as oh I certainly am a [TS]

  professional app and I can go [TS]

  subscription and i can charge you know [TS]

  five or ten or fifteen or twenty bucks a [TS]

  year because i'm worth it [TS]

  where some apps like twee pop I freaking [TS]

  live in Tweetbot and overcast actually I [TS]

  spend a lot of time and overcast i would [TS]

  pay twenty dollars a year for those apps [TS]

  but there's a lot of apps that i worry [TS]

  their developers will think oh we are [TS]

  definitely a pro app we deserve a [TS]

  subscription pricing blah blah where I [TS]

  really don't think that's the case I [TS]

  think it should be there a one-time fee [TS]

  or perhaps one time in a purchase or [TS]

  something along those lines and i don't [TS]

  know i just i'm hopeful that this does [TS]

  solve all of our problems like like [TS]

  Marco seems to think that it will but I [TS]

  really just don't want to end up paying [TS]

  a monthly fee or yearly fee or [TS]

  what-have-you for every damn app on my [TS]

  home screen it'll sort itself out though [TS]

  it'll sort of somehow in the market like [TS]

  it's not going to developers are free to [TS]

  try whatever they want but if it but i [TS]

  don't think i don't think these rule [TS]

  changes especially in the short term [TS]

  will change what people are willing to [TS]

  pay [TS]

  for applications all it will do is make [TS]

  it so that the sort of like the [TS]

  unrealized online marketing with Pickard [TS]

  patronage there's untapped money like [TS]

  money that people would be willing to [TS]

  give but have no way to give to stay in [TS]

  the development of the apps that use [TS]

  regularly like that's what basically [TS]

  patron is like you care enough about [TS]

  overcast you want to make sure that [TS]

  overcast continues to exist you know [TS]

  subscribe right and like you said you [TS]

  listened to have to use all the time [TS]

  that you would gladly subscribe for [TS]

  without any kind of description and [TS]

  without like a patronage thing that [TS]

  Marcos doing [TS]

  there's no one someone buys it for me [TS]

  there's no way for them to give you [TS]

  money unless market that's the thing [TS]

  where he makes an entirely new overcast [TS]

  to and you know all the things we've [TS]

  talked about in the past right so this [TS]

  releases that money from the people who [TS]

  are willing to pay it but it doesn't [TS]

  make everyone else suddenly willing to [TS]

  pay way more for the software they have [TS]

  now we could make developers be all like [TS]

  oh I want to try this the hot new thing [TS]

  but those developers will be sad because [TS]

  they'll find out what is the actual [TS]

  appetite to pay a monthly subscription [TS]

  for apt they'll realize that many people [TS]

  you know installed there 99 cents that [TS]

  never looked at it again or you know or [TS]

  or whatever like i don't i don't think [TS]

  you have too much to worry about because [TS]

  I really don't think this will change [TS]

  the hearts and minds of users in the [TS]

  short term especially and so if [TS]

  developers change their plans they will [TS]

  be punished by not getting a lot of [TS]

  sales and people stop using their app [TS]

  and move to competitors and then they'll [TS]

  change back and we'll sort of settle [TS]

  down again right that's the thing is [TS]

  that i agree with you that users aren't [TS]

  going to look at this [TS]

  generally speaking that differently but [TS]

  what I'm worried about is that even in a [TS]

  run-of-the-mill developer with a good [TS]

  but not world-class app is going to [TS]

  think oh well darn it my apps great and [TS]

  I think everyone is gonna pay [TS]

  subscription for me and you're right [TS]

  that this will kind of sauce itself out [TS]

  over time but i really hope that [TS]

  everyone in the app store doesn't [TS]

  immediately run to subscription pricing [TS]

  when really at least on my phone in my [TS]

  ipad anyway there's a very small subset [TS]

  of apps that I think really should [TS]

  consider subscription pricing that I [TS]

  think really should that should be worth [TS]

  it and granted by handful my five apps [TS]

  are different than your five apps are [TS]

  different from archos five apps so maybe [TS]

  that will sort itself out that way as [TS]

  well but I don't know I just really hope [TS]

  that everyone [TS]

  and the app store doesn't immediately [TS]

  run subscription pricing i I've heard [TS]

  from a number of people now saying [TS]

  basically especially the same sentiment [TS]

  of you know III as user don't want [TS]

  everything on my phone and all of a [TS]

  sudden be charging me like two dollars a [TS]

  month or whatever to some degree that's [TS]

  reasonable to some degree jon is right [TS]

  that the market will sort this out and [TS]

  and also to some degree i think this is [TS]

  an improvement over the reality that we [TS]

  have now so right now if you consider [TS]

  the example of say tweet by like you [TS]

  mentioning tweet by releases a brand-new [TS]

  version of the app and teapot is a paid [TS]

  upfront app and then about every one [TS]

  year too [TS]

  yeah they they release a new version [TS]

  that is a brand new standalone app for [TS]

  what is a few blocks like five bucks [TS]

  four bucks whatever so basically you're [TS]

  already you're almost already paying [TS]

  three or four hours a year for thuy pot [TS]

  if you move to subscription pricing [TS]

  there's not really much of a change [TS]

  except it's easier and better for [TS]

  everybody was a psychological change you [TS]

  know they don't want to sign up for [TS]

  another Zealander online Parliament no [TS]

  I'll get there but so you know and then [TS]

  the customers like you don't have to go [TS]

  through the stupid hoops of like will [TS]

  download the new app that true hopefully [TS]

  transfer all your accounts over delete [TS]

  the old apt change all your settings all [TS]

  the stupid stuff like a you know that it [TS]

  avoids all that all the cumbersome [TS]

  complexity of like replacing the paid [TS]

  app with the next paid version do the [TS]

  developers will make more money this way [TS]

  because of the new 8515 split that you [TS]

  get in years two through infinity which [TS]

  is a whole other thing that's really [TS]

  cool and most likely related to appletv [TS]

  negotiations but you know with look like [TS]

  video providers and possibly amazon and [TS]

  that but anyway the consumer side of [TS]

  this is it everyone saying you know I [TS]

  don't want everything on my screen all [TS]

  of a sudden charge me you know X dollars [TS]

  a month if you instead think about it as [TS]

  X dollars a year which is probably going [TS]

  to be a more common price point because [TS]

  you don't want to ideally you don't want [TS]

  to be like bugging people every like you [TS]

  don't want to be reminding people every [TS]

  month that they could cancel your [TS]

  subscription if they want to like it [TS]

  because every time that email comes in [TS]

  for Apple saying follow instructions are [TS]

  about to renew again in a few days or [TS]

  whatever like that's that's like a [TS]

  prompt for people to cancel your [TS]

  subscription so [TS]

  really want to do that if you can help [TS]

  if you can charge a few dollars a year [TS]

  instead of a few dollars a month that is [TS]

  probably a better idea as long as you [TS]

  can still make enough money that way and [TS]

  so if you think about like you know from [TS]

  it from like a paid app perspective like [TS]

  if you're if you're paying five bucks or [TS]

  four bucks for three bucks every year or [TS]

  18 months whatever whatever look at new [TS]

  standalone paid app version of something [TS]

  that's upgrade upgrade that way versus [TS]

  if you have like a four-hour year [TS]

  subscription [TS]

  it's not that different and it's [TS]

  actually way easier for you [TS]

  with description so i think this is the [TS]

  kind of thing we're not every Apple do [TS]

  it in fact i would guess very few actual [TS]

  do it for the same reason very few after [TS]

  paid upfront anymore [TS]

  most people won't pay for most apps [TS]

  that's not going to change most apps are [TS]

  still going to be free with garbage [TS]

  inside of them to fund it somehow most [TS]

  apps are still going to be like you know [TS]

  you don't really have to pay for really [TS]

  anything but you could pay if you want [TS]

  to all the big you know in a purchase [TS]

  Premium your mind trick games are still [TS]

  going to make all the money in the app [TS]

  store all those like all the market [TS]

  forces around this aren't really going [TS]

  to change that much as far as far as I [TS]

  as far as I can guess what will change [TS]

  is apps that are already now earning [TS]

  money through some way that's a little [TS]

  bit clunkier now have a smoother easier [TS]

  way to do it where they will probably [TS]

  also make more in the process and it's [TS]

  easier for both them and for users so [TS]

  you know don't think about it as [TS]

  everything on your homescreen charging [TS]

  two hours a month [TS]

  think about it as maybe two or three [TS]

  apps that you really use gonna charge [TS]

  you four bucks a year thats that's more [TS]

  likely to be the outcome anything about [TS]

  it that way it's pretty awesome [TS]

  well i agree i completely agree I just [TS]

  hope that the people who are writing [TS]

  these apps that the developers writing [TS]

  these apps have the self-awareness to [TS]

  realize whether or not it's appropriate [TS]

  for them to to move to subscription [TS]

  pricing and if they don't realize it [TS]

  that's why coming back around I think [TS]

  some of this verbiage is written the way [TS]

  it is on the website that gives Apple [TS]

  the the leverage and ammunition with [TS]

  which is already have the leverage but [TS]

  the ammunition with which to say now [TS]

  this is not an appropriate use of a [TS]

  subscription [TS]

  again that the market will sort this out [TS]

  like developers will very very quickly [TS]

  learn that you know pricing well above [TS]

  what people are willing to pay for their [TS]

  app is is probably going to work for [TS]

  them on the other hand you know suppose [TS]

  you have an app on your home screen and [TS]

  then they and they start charging for [TS]

  bucks a month if they can make enough [TS]

  money doing it that way and you don't [TS]

  want to pay good for them and that's not [TS]

  and that's you know too bad for you you [TS]

  know like it so yeah I think that like [TS]

  that again the markets work this out you [TS]

  know that the developers who overpriced [TS]

  their apps past with the market will [TS]

  bear will adjust it and you as a [TS]

  consumer might have to pay more but you [TS]

  know i would argue that prices for [TS]

  software have been artificially [TS]

  depressed for quite some time and a lot [TS]

  of kind of subsidized by a combination [TS]

  of hope and VC money i think that it's [TS]

  really good to have this option and not [TS]

  every developer will use it you know [TS]

  implementing these these subscriptions [TS]

  is not that easy and it's kind of a pain [TS]

  and it you know it's it's not as easy as [TS]

  putting a paid app up there you have to [TS]

  like code in this and purchase and have [TS]

  the backend to verify the receipts and [TS]

  keep track of who subscribe and [TS]

  everything so like it's not simple to do [TS]

  this so not every app will do this even [TS]

  if Apple to prove them which we don't [TS]

  know so i think this is going to be a [TS]

  much smaller deal than you expect to [TS]

  like apps as on a whole life as a whole [TS]

  but it will make a really big difference [TS]

  to the relatively low percentage of apps [TS]

  that will actually abusing it and one [TS]

  thing that developers who decided to go [TS]

  subscription should factor and i'm sure [TS]

  they're all are all thinking about this [TS]

  already but like the psychological [TS]

  barrier to signing up for a recurring [TS]

  payment even if the recurring payment is [TS]

  actually less than what you've actually [TS]

  been paying like for example say your [TS]

  twitter client updates every year and [TS]

  every year you buy a new copy for five [TS]

  bucks and they go to two years two [TS]

  dollars a year you're like great that's [TS]

  like half price you like but what if at [TS]

  the end of this year I don't want to [TS]

  upgrade right as always you know the [TS]

  whole like if you're signing up for a [TS]

  building like well how am I going to [TS]

  keep track of bills how am I gonna know [TS]

  when it renews like and we know that [TS]

  Apple house is pretty well-liked in [TS]

  terms of sending you an email letting [TS]

  you know [TS]

  that your thing is up for renewal that [TS]

  there and let you know if the price [TS]

  changes like that you know apples doing [TS]

  a good job at it but just the mere [TS]

  concept of signing up for a recurring [TS]

  payment even if it is less money now and [TS]

  less money in the long term bothers [TS]

  people and then the technology angle is [TS]

  and also what if i just want to keep [TS]

  using the old version right and and [TS]

  honestly like as a developer i say too [TS]

  bad you know like so so we'll take these [TS]

  things separately first of all day like [TS]

  Superman prices like yes but as i said [TS]

  before people people sure that you want [TS]

  to pay between 0 and 1 times and and and [TS]

  then have functionality is updated [TS]

  forever and that's that's not [TS]

  sustainable right well nobody not even [TS]

  you want to be updated forever it's just [TS]

  that you like the idea that the thing [TS]

  that goes on in the background you have [TS]

  to be aware that it exists like the the [TS]

  perhaps a rational in the case of Apple [TS]

  fear that you will forget this thing [TS]

  existed that you're being charged you [TS]

  know five dollars a year forever kind of [TS]

  like an AOL dial subscription that you [TS]

  just forgot the canceled in nineteen [TS]

  ninety-seven like that that's what I'm [TS]

  talking about mostly not the idea that [TS]

  you just want to pay once and future [TS]

  space again say your gladly paying like [TS]

  you know so you're paying like five [TS]

  dollars for nuclear client every nine [TS]

  months and you're happy to do is you [TS]

  think it's awesome every single time [TS]

  when they ask you to pay two dollars a [TS]

  year you're like what in perpetuity like [TS]

  I'm signing up for something that you [TS]

  know like it doesn't make sense but [TS]

  especially again especially since Apple [TS]

  is so good about like not letting you [TS]

  forget these things there's not as if [TS]

  you're going to not know that you're [TS]

  being built for this and everything in [TS]

  fact I think isn't like if you don't do [TS]

  something it wont autore no I don't know [TS]

  how how good is it [TS]

  no no it does that's only if you raise [TS]

  the price it will it will continue to [TS]

  Bill you until you stop it [TS]

  and right now the interface to stop [TS]

  these descriptions is awful and buried [TS]

  is something this will all be better [TS]

  yeah but they have said like part of [TS]

  this announcement was that all this is [TS]

  getting an overhaul so it a lot of this [TS]

  depends on the implementation details [TS]

  it really does and so we will see that [TS]

  the the previous redoing subscription [TS]

  system was really rough there were a lot [TS]

  of things about it that were really just [TS]

  badly done or inconvenient or consumer [TS]

  hostile or developer hospital so this a [TS]

  lot of this depends on the details so I [TS]

  I'm just assuming with with my [TS]

  predictions here i'm assuming that they [TS]

  have made it [TS]

  are enough that we can overcome those [TS]

  problems I I see what you're saying I [TS]

  agree that it is a bigger barrier but I [TS]

  you know the reality is paying it all as [TS]

  a big barrier and once you're over the [TS]

  hump of paying at all [TS]

  yes people would choose to pay once if [TS]

  given the option of you i want to pay [TS]

  four dollars once or four hours every [TS]

  year of course you're going to choose [TS]

  the first one but that is not [TS]

  sustainable like it and we've seen this [TS]

  over and over and over again [TS]

  software these days people expect [TS]

  continuous updates and the end up a [TS]

  wants model whether it's pay once [TS]

  forever or whether it's pay once every [TS]

  like 18 months than the others upgrades [TS]

  in separate apps [TS]

  both of those are dysfunctional in a lot [TS]

  of ways you're saying it's not feasible [TS]

  for developers right but i'm thinking it [TS]

  from from the perspective of the [TS]

  customers perfectly it's perfectly [TS]

  sustainable from the perspective of the [TS]

  customer because the customers like i [TS]

  buy twitter client a year later that [TS]

  developers out of business because no [TS]

  never could find a way to get more money [TS]

  and then I pick a new Torah client the [TS]

  year goes by and then new character [TS]

  developer releases a new versions [TS]

  application i can use it or not you know [TS]

  like like buying a new application every [TS]

  year is the model that they've been [TS]

  going on if the new application is from [TS]

  the same developer find something that's [TS]

  sustainable from the developers correct [TS]

  perspective if that new application is a [TS]

  different one [TS]

  it's still the same money from the the [TS]

  user's perspective right we're just [TS]

  looking from the developer's perspective [TS]

  saying it's not sustainable therefore [TS]

  are going to go to subscriptions [TS]

  subscriptions are not going to help you [TS]

  if Pete if your application is not [TS]

  attractive enough to get people over the [TS]

  heel barrier but be sure [TS]

  however the the other model has a whole [TS]

  bunch of problems so for instance why [TS]

  are you not considering buying a mac pro [TS]

  today John my process cost way more than [TS]

  apps i don't think that this is [TS]

  applicable time I short-circuit [TS]

  short-circuiting this analogy believe me [TS]

  it works exactly the same way [TS]

  why you're not buying a mac pro right [TS]

  now because crappy I don't want that one [TS]

  because you know a new ones coming out [TS]

  soon [TS]

  no i don't i don't know that all nobody [TS]

  knows that well the current was three [TS]

  years old and the same that's why I [TS]

  don't want to buy it doesn't have its [TS]

  not like a good product about you expect [TS]

  there's probably going to be an update [TS]

  to it coming soon and if you buy it now [TS]

  you won't get the updated one for free [TS]

  ya know I know [TS]

  although the anti-piracy i'm not saying [TS]

  this is not bad i'm just i'm saying that [TS]

  by the started with me giving advice to [TS]

  developers hey developer you're thinking [TS]

  of changing your applications too [TS]

  surprising if you only think about how [TS]

  this will affect your revenue you're not [TS]

  factoring everything you also have to [TS]

  factor in how unattractive the idea of [TS]

  of a pay this amount on this interval [TS]

  forever and ever until you cancel is to [TS]

  people that is very unattractive to a [TS]

  lot of people more so then every year [TS]

  after my favorite app developer goes out [TS]

  of business find the next client that I [TS]

  want to buy for toolbox even though or [TS]

  five bucks even though it may be costing [TS]

  the user more to do it the other way [TS]

  people are more comfortable that and not [TS]

  just because there was used to because [TS]

  people have a real fear of recurring [TS]

  bills of all kinds like even if it's a [TS]

  one-dollar year it like and I think the [TS]

  older you get the more like younger [TS]

  people may eventually get ok with you [TS]

  just get used to whatever like the [TS]

  status quo is like so if you're coming [TS]

  of age during this time I won't be a big [TS]

  deal but the older you get like I have [TS]

  trouble convincing my parents to buy two [TS]

  dollar application i could never [TS]

  convince them to buy a one-dollar your [TS]

  application even if they use that [TS]

  application every single day my parents [TS]

  have one-dollar year to spend but if I [TS]

  try to say what I have to pay that every [TS]

  year for how long forever and if I stop [TS]

  paying do I stop being able to use the [TS]

  app doesn't make any sense [TS]

  people do not like recurring payments [TS]

  that you're right there are a lot of [TS]

  people who don't it's not everybody a [TS]

  lot of you don't care but there are a [TS]

  lot of people who don't certainly but [TS]

  not like I think so many of those people [TS]

  will wouldn't pay for these things [TS]

  anyway that it's not is I don't think [TS]

  it's as big of a problem is you think [TS]

  I'm thinking I'm thinking of applicants [TS]

  they're changing their things like it [TS]

  like the the topside the upside this and [TS]

  it is very large for applications that [TS]

  like the ones the case he said we all [TS]

  have applications that our phones that [TS]

  we hope continue to be updated improve [TS]

  that we will gladly pay a yearly fee for [TS]

  everybody has stuff like that on the [TS]

  phone [TS]

  those developers now have a way to [TS]

  unlock that money that we were ready to [TS]

  give them but usually didn't have a way [TS]

  to do so like so that is the big upside [TS]

  to this the only potential downsides [TS]

  developers miscalculating if their [TS]

  application is one of those ones that [TS]

  has that on tap [TS]

  market like or if that on top marketers [TS]

  is big enough or whatever and so I guess [TS]

  you have to know as a developer who are [TS]

  my customers who are my potential [TS]

  customers if i change the description [TS]

  pricing is my it does my appt have that [TS]

  much potential value to that many [TS]

  potential people that it is one of those [TS]

  apps you can get away with subscriptions [TS]

  or does it not [TS]

  and the the things that case was worried [TS]

  about is that a hundred a bunch of [TS]

  developers will miscalculate will think [TS]

  that they can do it and it will be like [TS]

  maybe not company killing but like [TS]

  they'll be a short-term loss of [TS]

  application has a bunch of them try out [TS]

  the subscription model lose all the [TS]

  customers who are willing to do that [TS]

  people seek out alternatives and then [TS]

  when they change their mind and realized [TS]

  that they're not the one of those people [TS]

  who can sustain subscription pricing [TS]

  then switch back into it they lost [TS]

  everything and that would be like a net [TS]

  loss of like it would be your perturb [TS]

  users who lose a bunch of applications [TS]

  and was at like I said that the market [TS]

  will start out eventually but there [TS]

  could be some short-term turn and pain [TS]

  from user perspective as developers try [TS]

  things out [TS]

  yeah but ultimately i think this is [TS]

  going to be a very short-lived [TS]

  experimentation period you know it [TS]

  people are going to realize very quickly [TS]

  whether this is working with them or not [TS]

  and honestly most developers underpriced [TS]

  their work anyway so I think if the [TS]

  opposite profitable Edward not enough [TS]

  people will try this now that although [TS]

  that is speaking at speaking of the [TS]

  short-term thing that is another [TS]

  phenomenon is that if you are the first [TS]

  application and a set of users [TS]

  applications that they have on the home [TS]

  screen or whatever to go subscription [TS]

  they might be like you know what I [TS]

  really don't like subscriptions but I've [TS]

  been hearing a lot of Medicine [TS]

  description thinking maybe i'll try it [TS]

  if you are the tenth one to do that [TS]

  subscription fatigue may said and so [TS]

  like it like so many changes in the app [TS]

  store like the app store itself there is [TS]

  probably a gold rush period where if you [TS]

  can get me know [TS]

  decide now like if you want to run this [TS]

  experiment it's probably better to start [TS]

  soon rather than you know three weeks in [TS]

  after everyone has been prompted three [TS]

  times on their home screen if they want [TS]

  to you know change the description or [TS]

  whatever could be the first one that is [TS]

  definitely an advantage and there is it [TS]

  definitely a first mover advantage and [TS]

  then I guess you'll find out if your [TS]

  model is sustainable before anyone else [TS]

  does i think most people don't really [TS]

  use that many apps on a regular basis [TS]

  that they even pay for let alone that [TS]

  would be subscription-based [TS]

  i'm guessing the average number of apps [TS]

  on somebody's phone that are going to [TS]

  attempt this at all [TS]

  it's probably something like three at [TS]

  most I mean like it's probably not that [TS]

  many you know that that's why I think I [TS]

  don't think the fatigue issue or the [TS]

  like too many eels issue i don't think [TS]

  these will be prevalent because 33 is [TS]

  fatigue the third one people are gonna [TS]

  be like that's it no more of these [TS]

  applications asking me for subscriptions [TS]

  three is definitely over the fatigue [TS]

  bury one is the honeymoon period two is [TS]

  you're getting grumpy three is like nope [TS]

  i'm out for regular people [TS]

  yeah i agree i really i really think [TS]

  these are gonna be mostly single digit [TS]

  number of dollars per year [TS]

  most people won't have a whole lot of [TS]

  those in their phone except like that [TS]

  the most power of the power users you [TS]

  know then it's gonna be very small [TS]

  amounts per year and it's going to be [TS]

  fine and just going to be easier for [TS]

  everybody once it's all established but [TS]

  we'll see any way to stop this thing I [TS]

  think any kind of change description to [TS]

  it to broadening it in anyway even if [TS]

  it's a given whatever is a good thing [TS]

  because I mean I'm talking about all the [TS]

  potential bad sides but net [TS]

  this is going to be an improvement like [TS]

  this is a positive change for all were [TS]

  arguing about is exactly how positive [TS]

  because it could potentially be really [TS]

  really positive or just a little bit [TS]

  positive but it's going to be positive [TS]

  like make no mistake about that even [TS]

  though it sounds like we're i'm just [TS]

  complaining about all the potential [TS]

  downsides and how things can go wrong [TS]

  like anytime there's any change people [TS]

  can go wrong and developers can make bad [TS]

  choices about how to change the pricing [TS]

  structure of the application or which [TS]

  applications to make but I can't see any [TS]

  way that this could make things worse [TS]

  this is going to make things better it's [TS]

  going to make us have better [TS]

  applications on the phone it's going to [TS]

  make it so that our favorite [TS]

  applications don't go out of businesses [TS]

  often after whatever the initial [TS]

  shakeout period and people figure this [TS]

  out right and it could potentially [TS]

  finally solve the problem of how do you [TS]

  get pro level features full applications [TS]

  on all of apple's platforms in a way [TS]

  that can be ongoing just like it was a [TS]

  box software you after year they would [TS]

  make new versions and charge of [TS]

  everything so and we didn't talk about [TS]

  8515 split except mentioned briefly also [TS]

  obviously a positive change for [TS]

  everybody except for Apple you know okay [TS]

  we respond to this week by Ringo to ring [TS]

  dot com / ATP for fifty dollars off the [TS]

  ring video doorbell there are very often [TS]

  home burglaries every 13 seconds on [TS]

  average most things happen in the middle [TS]

  of the day with burgers ringing your [TS]

  doorbell first to make sure you're away [TS]

  before they try to break into your house [TS]

  now the ring video doorbell is improving [TS]

  stop burglaries before they happen by [TS]

  allowing you to see and speak to through [TS]

  the doorbell anyone approaching your [TS]

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  their advanced motion detection [TS]

  technology to protect your entire [TS]

  property with the ring of security kit [TS]

  this includes a ring video doorbell for [TS]

  the front door and a ring stick-up cam [TS]

  the wireless weatherproof HD camera to [TS]

  keep an eye on other parts of your [TS]

  property or the side of John's car now [TS]

  the ring video doorbell and stick-up [TS]

  campus install minutes and working [TS]

  together they provide 24 7 monitoring of [TS]

  your entire home whether you're right [TS]

  there in the house or thousands of miles [TS]

  away now Casey you have one of these [TS]

  right at both you do in case you you [TS]

  have won this time I actually really [TS]

  honestly like this thing a lot when [TS]

  somebody rings the doorbell it [TS]

  immediately pushes to not only my phone [TS]

  but I've set up Aaron as a shared owner [TS]

  so her phone with her own ring account [TS]

  you can answer that push and it will [TS]

  show you live video what's going on in [TS]

  the front door it will allow you to [TS]

  listen [TS]

  it will allow you like you said to talk [TS]

  back I really really like this thing I [TS]

  wasn't sure what to make of it to make [TS]

  it at first then I am definitely a [TS]

  convert I'm really pleased with it [TS]

  user link ring dot com / ATP for fifty [TS]

  dollars off the ring of security kit [TS]

  join the hundreds of thousands of others [TS]

  who protect their home with the ring [TS]

  video doorbell to ring calm / ATP once [TS]

  again for fifty dollars off thats ring [TS]

  com /a TV thanks a lot to ring for [TS]

  sponsoring our show [TS]

  we were talking earlier about the 8515 [TS]

  split so Apple is said if you keep if [TS]

  you have a subscription with a user and [TS]

  that user keeps the subscription for at [TS]

  least a year [TS]

  subsequent to that first year being [TS]

  completed apple will only take fifteen [TS]

  percent and they will give eighty-five [TS]

  percent of the revenue back to the [TS]

  developer and John had made a kind of [TS]

  offhanded comment that oh that's bad for [TS]

  apple and and I presume John you don't [TS]

  mean that no literal sense that's good [TS]

  for everybody except that was mostly [TS]

  joking obviously it's good for Apple [TS]

  more people develop the app store and [TS]

  all you know more sustainable [TS]

  applications more people developed for [TS]

  longer they're motivated to make their [TS]

  customers happy and keep them for a year [TS]

  like obviously there is upside for Apple [TS]

  but i'm saying is there isn't [TS]

  you know it's all upside for developers [TS]

  getting more money and for users [TS]

  it's upside because that the price to [TS]

  the user doesn't change at all they [TS]

  don't really care how the money split up [TS]

  except for the fact that they they [TS]

  probably like it that the developers are [TS]

  getting more money because I'm not [TS]

  really worried about Apple being [TS]

  cash-strapped at this point this is [TS]

  great because first [TS]

  great because first [TS]

  vol shows that Apple can lower their cut [TS]

  and that they're willing to selectively [TS]

  lower their cut now for for the right [TS]

  reason we always do they could just [TS]

  didn't really say whether they would [TS]

  yeah exactly so so this is interesting [TS]

  so now they can lower their cut to [TS]

  incent behavior that they need or want [TS]

  so i mentioned under the radar like this [TS]

  would be a great thing to do to so for [TS]

  instance like if they really wanted to [TS]

  to kind of juice or subsidized more [TS]

  growth of certain kinds of apps or [TS]

  certain platforms like if they wanted to [TS]

  say like all right anything bought an [TS]

  ipad pro would be this or anything any [TS]

  apple TV apps would have this split this [TS]

  is a way for them to you know turn some [TS]

  levers 22 juice development of certain [TS]

  kinds of apps that they want or need you [TS]

  know it's like edge I think they've seen [TS]

  the things like the watch in the apple [TS]

  TV & and the ipad pro like having having [TS]

  their app stores take off probably more [TS]

  slowly than apple wanted them to [TS]

  I think this is it's good for them to [TS]

  develop incentive systems that they can [TS]

  use to to help juice app development in [TS]

  the right and in sustainable ways so [TS]

  that's good [TS]

  it's also interesting that you know this [TS]

  is probably part of the negotiation of [TS]

  things like getting netflix and HBO go [TS]

  to allow signups on the appletv you know [TS]

  and there was actually a report like [TS]

  that country code like an april that [TS]

  this was the case that they were [TS]

  actually getting fifteen percent you [TS]

  know from the beginning on those things [TS]

  for the longest time for the entire list [TS]

  of the app store until possibly this or [TS]

  until possibly you know this Apple TV [TS]

  deal all developers were given the exact [TS]

  same terms and the and had to follow the [TS]

  exact same rules everybody from like [TS]

  Facebook down to you know the the 123 [TS]

  note-taker lon connected like every app [TS]

  was given the same terms and that it was [TS]

  very kind of like fair and democratic in [TS]

  that way and and that was actually from [TS]

  understand that was kind of like a big [TS]

  part of the culture of the Eddy Cue [TS]

  appstore team so good on them for that [TS]

  this is interesting in that like [TS]

  obviously they're there have been market [TS]

  pressures for Apple to lower that rate [TS]

  for certain big companies a big one is [TS]

  amazon right I'm sure part of the [TS]

  negotiations amazon are that Amazon does [TS]

  not want to get apple thirty percent of [TS]

  things that are bought in there after or [TS]

  no memberships are starting their apps [TS]

  apple doesn't budge on that an Amazon [TS]

  doesn't budge on that and that that's [TS]

  why we don't have a music video on the [TS]

  appletv this is interesting in that it [TS]

  looks like Apple is now bugging on that [TS]

  for the right reasons which include [TS]

  things like getting important partners [TS]

  in the apple TV and that as they're [TS]

  doing that for them they're also then [TS]

  bringing in any developer under certain [TS]

  terms with that too so yeah it'd be nice [TS]

  if all apple TV apps or 8515 for [TS]

  everything that's going to happen at [TS]

  least not yet but this is nice that like [TS]

  that kind of like everybody gets the [TS]

  same deal thing seems to be still either [TS]

  continuing or mostly continuing and also [TS]

  this is great because like that cut [TS]

  being so high in thirty percent is a lot [TS]

  that cut being so high [TS]

  make certain business models either [TS]

  impossible or at least not very [TS]

  compelling to even try to do on Apple's [TS]

  platforms the more they can lower that [TS]

  or the more places in which they can [TS]

  lower that the more it makes completely [TS]

  new business models possible or or more [TS]

  practical on Apple's platforms and [TS]

  that's good for everybody that's good [TS]

  for the developers and the users and [TS]

  apple everything won't suddenly possible [TS]

  because you know for a lot of business [TS]

  models fifteen percent is still too much [TS]

  for somebody else to be taking still [TS]

  can't sell ebooks fifteen percent is too [TS]

  high for that to get one example [TS]

  yeah probably but you know and you know [TS]

  amazon is is not going to be happy with [TS]

  that either [TS]

  amazon is only going to be happy when [TS]

  they can have their own check out with [TS]

  their own stuff and not pay apple [TS]

  anything and that's I don't expect [TS]

  Amazon Apple to resolve that anytime [TS]

  soon because apples are not gonna budge [TS]

  on that and Amazon is not going to [TS]

  accept anything else from Apple [TS]

  especially at least not for the apple TV [TS]

  where Amazon kind of you know where [TS]

  Amazon can afford to lose the appletv [TS]

  can't they can't just do a like what [TS]

  you're talking about just for people who [TS]

  subscribe to the app but don't a lot of [TS]

  the video apps say like oh if you [TS]

  subscribe to the web that apple doesn't [TS]

  get any of that money yeah and then you [TS]

  just sign like why does an amazon just [TS]

  do that they they already do that on all [TS]

  up on all Apple other platforms that's [TS]

  exactly what they do the the only reason [TS]

  they don't do it on the appletv is [TS]

  because they're there are so few apple [TS]

  tv's out there of the generation that [TS]

  Amazon is is gambling that they can just [TS]

  afford [TS]

  to not be there and that they are in the [TS]

  they have the upper hand in the [TS]

  negotiation whether it's true or not so [TS]

  that self fire TV boxes so that you can [TS]

  check them to be for free this packing [TS]

  material but that's the whole thing with [TS]

  amazon its I i have no pity for their [TS]

  it'sit's to eat you have two stubborn [TS]

  monopolist fighting over who gets to be [TS]

  the summer monopolist like okay that's [TS]

  good luck with the fact that but yeah [TS]

  anyway so I think this is great this a [TS]

  15 thing is great i would love to see [TS]

  this in more places I I wouldn't hold my [TS]

  breath on that yet but I'm glad to see [TS]

  it anywhere and and to have to have this [TS]

  makes make things possible the word [TS]

  impossible before entering and to give [TS]

  to reward developers who are who have [TS]

  that kind of like long-standing customer [TS]

  base to reward them with basically a [TS]

  raise is really cool and it's the only [TS]

  downside to it is that I think for the [TS]

  foreseeable future it's probably going [TS]

  to benefit very few people like it's [TS]

  good that there's going to be very few [TS]

  developers who have a subscription [TS]

  priced apps and who has user sticking [TS]

  around that long it is i think it's [TS]

  gonna be a small group but for those [TS]

  people this is really nice and it's the [TS]

  second the second change that we've gone [TS]

  through so far that no matter how you [TS]

  look at it definitely seems focused on [TS]

  what we always talk about sustainable [TS]

  development [TS]

  how do i make it more feasible for a [TS]

  developer to make something for the [TS]

  platform and then keep improving it year [TS]

  after year rather than doing the [TS]

  hit-and-run or the one-hit wonder or the [TS]

  game or other throwaway type of thing [TS]

  how do we make that possible [TS]

  subscriptions no matter how we slice [TS]

  them either make that a little bit [TS]

  better or a lot better than 80 15 after [TS]

  the first year couldn't be more clear we [TS]

  want you to keep your customers for an [TS]

  entire year if you can do that there [TS]

  will be a reward at the end of it you [TS]

  are now and sent devised motivated to do [TS]

  this not presented because I'm like that [TS]

  it's a weird word [TS]

  yeah and so you know that's that's 242 [TS]

  and trying to make a more sustainable [TS]

  the only question I have about it I'd [TS]

  look into it deeply is like the the [TS]

  loophole of like it so its bits per [TS]

  customer so it's like you Joe Schmo have [TS]

  been a customer for a year Joe schmo's [TS]

  subscription money after the first year [TS]

  changes / day 15 but they get but the [TS]

  guy who signed up six months later it [TS]

  doesn't change 2015 innocence [TS]

  it's not counting it's like customer [TS]

  year but so if your customer if you have [TS]

  a customer who has been subscribing [TS]

  every month for 12 months and then the [TS]

  13th month ago you know what I'm not [TS]

  subscribing anymore and cancel the [TS]

  subscription and then five minutes later [TS]

  resubscribe or a month later resubscribe [TS]

  like it is a gap in the year long thing [TS]

  that you lose out a native team to the [TS]

  clock start over again or visit the [TS]

  cumulative 11 months that they were [TS]

  subscriber and then after their 12-month [TS]

  like details like that about it doesn't [TS]

  have to be continuous streak if they [TS]

  bail on the last month but changed their [TS]

  mind five minute later five minutes [TS]

  later or day later or a month later what [TS]

  are all the rules surrounding that [TS]

  because it would seem kind of cruel to [TS]

  like say you're a really good customer [TS]

  for an application and you want to be [TS]

  sustainable and you were really excited [TS]

  about being able to fund for an entire [TS]

  year bc nude in your second year that [TS]

  the developer would be getting more of [TS]

  your money but for whatever reason you [TS]

  either accidentally or you changed your [TS]

  mind briefly or something you can select [TS]

  it and then you re subscribe and i [TS]

  gotta-i gotta use that for another year [TS]

  before the developer it's not that [TS]

  people care much about so much about [TS]

  developers that they're worried about it [TS]

  but I'm just trying to like I hope there [TS]

  are rules in there that have reasonable [TS]

  buffers to make it so that you don't [TS]

  visit you you have to keep the customer [TS]

  for a year [TS]

  you wouldn't want to lose out on that [TS]

  money due to a technicality or silly [TS]

  mistake real-time follow-up from pat [TS]

  Murray there's a 60 day grace period on [TS]

  the 1815 split that's pretty generous [TS]

  and it's pretty quiet into that are [TS]

  found sponsor this week is backblaze go [TS]

  to backblaze calm / ATP for unlimited [TS]

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  backup that's awesome [TS]

  it's unlimited it's uh throttled the [TS]

  client is native it runs really well [TS]

  i've been using it now for a number of [TS]

  years since before they were sponsor I [TS]

  have something like 45 terabytes backed [TS]

  up with them very very easy to restore [TS]

  things you want to restore just one file [TS]

  you can do that or you can restore your [TS]

  entire drive you can download files from [TS]

  online so if you want to like you know [TS]

  restore a file when you're on vacation [TS]

  just get a file from your home computer [TS]

  you can do that it's really convenient [TS]

  for that you can also restore and [TS]

  our hard drive with the files and they [TS]

  can you can download if you want to or [TS]

  they can actually mail you a hard drive [TS]

  they can you restore my mail overnight [TS]

  to you with fedex mail you a hard drive [TS]

  and if you return it to them within 30 [TS]

  days he had a refund on the hard drive [TS]

  I still suggest you have local backups [TS]

  because local backups are just faster [TS]

  and more convenient and everything [TS]

  because they're right there was no [TS]

  internet involved but you should have [TS]

  backblaze as an insurance policy just in [TS]

  case something happens to your local [TS]

  bank is also so if you have something [TS]

  like a fire or flood or a power surge or [TS]

  just human error there are so many [TS]

  things that can affect your local [TS]

  backups as well as your main computer [TS]

  you need online backup as a as like a [TS]

  whole failsafe insurance policy against [TS]

  those kind of conditions and if you're [TS]

  going to online backup backblaze is the [TS]

  best one [TS]

  believe me I have tried the other ones [TS]

  back places the best there's no gimmicks [TS]

  there's no additional charges [TS]

  there's no weird throttling are slow [TS]

  upload speeds and point that five [TS]

  dollars a month for unlimited space on [TS]

  throttle speeds for your online backup [TS]

  with back place to / ATP so [TS]

  they know you where you came from and so [TS]

  they can do to support our show thank [TS]

  you for supporting them and us by going [TS]

  there 18 listen to get a free 15 day [TS]

  free trial at / ATP thanks [TS]

  a lot [TS]

  alright so another big change to the way [TS]

  the appstore works you can [TS]

  hey to get placement in search results [TS]

  sort of kind of i'm not entirely clear [TS]

  on how this is all held together and I'm [TS]

  guessing Marco you probably have the [TS]

  best overall understanding of it so it [TS]

  can you can you take the summarizer in [TS]

  chief mantle from me and kind of give us [TS]

  the quick quick and dirty version just [TS]

  go if you're if you're interested in [TS]

  these search ads go to the link that [TS]

  we're gonna put the show notes apples [TS]

  page on this because they they have [TS]

  screenshots and it explains better than [TS]

  we can in the text but in the audio [TS]

  basically the gist of this is they are [TS]

  now offering search ads for developers [TS]

  so that when you search you can pay for [TS]

  your app to show up for certain relevant [TS]

  search keywords when people you know [TS]

  people search warrant after you can pay [TS]

  for it to take there's a single spot on [TS]

  top it's highlighted in blue so it's you [TS]

  know you don't like fooling people into [TS]

  thinking this is a real result it looks [TS]

  like an ad it's labeled as an ally I [TS]

  think you are fooling people but forget [TS]

  that after years after you finish [TS]

  summarizing good so it's basically it's [TS]

  very similar to what we've seen from [TS]

  search engines like Google from from [TS]

  search ads for over a decade [TS]

  it's the very similar kind of thing so [TS]

  that and I think Apple has put in place [TS]

  certain limits and controls that that [TS]

  are better there to limit potential [TS]

  abuse and annoyance and you know [TS]

  possible fraud issues and it sounds like [TS]

  they've actually a really good job at it [TS]

  looks pretty good to me [TS]

  the restrictions they put in place sound [TS]

  pretty good if they work as well as they [TS]

  sound [TS]

  I think it'll actually be a really good [TS]

  system you know and there's there's a [TS]

  lot of beds and better just briefly some [TS]

  of those restrictions are things like [TS]

  that obviously the only one AD being [TS]

  shown at a time so you don't have to [TS]

  worry about like a giant stack of ads [TS]

  above the real search results because [TS]

  the ads only take up like at most half [TS]

  of the of the viewport of the other [TS]

  before you're still seeing you know [TS]

  whatever the top couple results are you [TS]

  still going to see those pretty easily [TS]

  on screen so it's not really gonna like [TS]

  bury their the organic search results 1 [TS]

  worried that i saw a lot of people site [TS]

  is was basically like keyword squatting [TS]

  of of like of bitters of like you know [TS]

  big-budget games bidding on like on your [TS]

  keywords like image editor or podcast [TS]

  player like just to get their big 12 [TS]

  game [TS]

  squatting on your trademarks like they [TS]

  would actually register your products [TS]

  exact name as a as a keyword right [TS]

  exactly and and apple apple says on this [TS]

  page that you're only going to show up [TS]

  on searches for which your result would [TS]

  be relevant [TS]

  no matter how much you're willing to pay [TS]

  and so will see like what that means in [TS]

  practice that sounds a lot like a big [TS]

  data search problem apples usually not [TS]

  very good at but we'll see i can i'm [TS]

  gonna get into the benefit of that at [TS]

  least let's see what this is because if [TS]

  they do this well and you know it looks [TS]

  good so far in in their press shots [TS]

  we'll see how it is again if they do [TS]

  this well I think this is great you know [TS]

  other developers are I have not heard [TS]

  from any other developers who are as [TS]

  excited about this as I am and maybe [TS]

  that's a bad sign i don't know but if [TS]

  you have a big budget and you want more [TS]

  growth you now have a way to get more [TS]

  growth you can bid on some search [TS]

  keywords or there's even what i thought [TS]

  was interesting [TS]

  there's an option in in the screenshot [TS]

  they show there's an option to not [TS]

  specify the keywords and just let Apple [TS]

  kind of put you into things it thinks [TS]

  are relevant not just the option i think [TS]

  that's the default I think you're right [TS]

  so that i think is more interesting [TS]

  because honestly trying to keep track of [TS]

  what keywords you should be bidding on [TS]

  is a lot of work and a lot of kind of [TS]

  voodoo and a lot of some data some [TS]

  guessing and it's just it's just it [TS]

  makes it more work so if Apple can do a [TS]

  decent enough job and get you a decent [TS]

  return or you know decently low cost per [TS]

  tap for automatic searches you actually [TS]

  get more places like you'll be on on [TS]

  keywords you wouldn't have thought of [TS]

  that you know and if they work then [TS]

  great so that i think is interesting but [TS]

  if the system works so it's a way for [TS]

  both people with a budget to spend to [TS]

  get more people to download their app so [TS]

  that's cool and also you know people [TS]

  keep saying like oh what's what's going [TS]

  to happen to like the small developers [TS]

  who can't afford this [TS]

  if you're a small developer trying to [TS]

  trying to break into a market it is [TS]

  almost impossible to get meaningful [TS]

  exposure unless you like with the press [TS]

  and and get them to write about you [TS]

  somehow this is easier and more reliable [TS]

  and yes it costs some money but you know [TS]

  it's a crowded market sometimes you [TS]

  gotta pay some money to get noticed [TS]

  just by you have to buy promotional [TS]

  spots if you are going to try to break [TS]

  into a category where no one's really [TS]

  going to write about your app or you [TS]

  haven't gotten the kind of press you [TS]

  want or it's too narrow a category for [TS]

  the press to care [TS]

  this is great this is a way for you to [TS]

  get to your customers and to be visible [TS]

  if you're launching a new photo editor [TS]

  there is no way you're going to show up [TS]

  in that number one spot at any piano [TS]

  before this you you could not show up [TS]

  there if people search for image editor [TS]

  and they got this one camera verse [TS]

  number one spot that's it that's what [TS]

  they're seeing your app doesn't stand a [TS]

  chance [TS]

  now you have a way to get there and [TS]

  maybe you don't do it forever [TS]

  maybe you do it only like Bill your [TS]

  initial audience then you then you [TS]

  depend on you know organic spreading of [TS]

  your app after that but this gives you [TS]

  an option where there was no option [TS]

  before I don't see how you can look at [TS]

  this and say this is a bad thing the [TS]

  only major valid criticism of this is [TS]

  yeah they really should make the actual [TS]

  search better be before worrying about [TS]

  things like this but ultimately ok that [TS]

  this is reality that's not going to [TS]

  happen the old the original search will [TS]

  will get better or not separately from [TS]

  this that is independent of this so in [TS]

  the reality that we live in make this [TS]

  happen independently i would much rather [TS]

  have an app store where I as a developer [TS]

  can buy keywords for to promote my apps [TS]

  and we'll see you know maybe the pricing [TS]

  will will make this impossible but at [TS]

  least rather have the option to try then [TS]

  to have something where if I want to [TS]

  break into a new market i have to either [TS]

  already be famous or get the press to [TS]

  write about me because that's that is [TS]

  not nearly as open and democratic as [TS]

  this is they're trying to be helpful it [TS]

  seems like two people who have [TS]

  experienced these things by giving you [TS]

  the tools to do the fairly simple [TS]

  multiplication and division to say look [TS]

  it you're gonna lose money if you bid is [TS]

  an auction system if you bid too high [TS]

  but this is a very popular keyword and a [TS]

  lot of people are bidding on there being [TS]

  it up and up and you get caught up in [TS]

  that you won't make that money back [TS]

  because it costs so much money and its [TS]

  part app by the way like it's not per [TS]

  purchase it's not for time period its [TS]

  how many people tap on your [TS]

  are your results right you have to kind [TS]

  of guess what do I think my conversion [TS]

  rates going to be of all the people who [TS]

  tap on my ad how many of them are [TS]

  actually going to buy it for each one [TS]

  who buys it how much do i how much money [TS]

  am I going to make and therefore how [TS]

  much money does it cost me an aggregate [TS]

  during this ad campaign to acquire each [TS]

  customer who will give me a certain [TS]

  amount of money and apple actually have [TS]

  a little tool where you can say look if [TS]

  you don't want to do this very [TS]

  complicated multiplication and division [TS]

  in your own head [TS]

  just put your cost per acquisition your [TS]

  CPA goal in there and then they'll [TS]

  figure out how to maximize your app [TS]

  downloads like you just give them your [TS]

  target number where you feel like this [TS]

  ad campaign will be worthwhile for you [TS]

  whether it's you put in a number that [TS]

  makes you feel like you won't lose any [TS]

  money or that you're willing to lose a [TS]

  certain amount of money like how much [TS]

  how much do you want to cost you to get [TS]

  a new customer if you want to cost you [TS]

  fifty cents to get into customer you [TS]

  call the customer gives you a dollar [TS]

  you're going to come out ahead maybe it [TS]

  cost you you get a dollar for every [TS]

  customer but you're willing to pay two [TS]

  dollars to acquire your first set of [TS]

  customers like marker was saying on your [TS]

  launch day or whatever you can do that [TS]

  just put that number in Italy like [TS]

  everything they say about the sounds [TS]

  good down to have heard I don't know if [TS]

  this is text from the ads or still show [TS]

  talking to people the idea that like say [TS]

  your application is terrific and someone [TS]

  types twitterrific into the search thing [TS]

  I had heard that there would be no add [TS]

  their the twitter if we will be the [TS]

  number one hit and there'll be no ad [TS]

  displayed because it is exact match for [TS]

  the name of an existing application in [TS]

  other words nobody can buy the [TS]

  twitterrific keyword to make their thing [TS]

  show up as the number one head when [TS]

  someone searches for twitterrific again [TS]

  i don't know if this is official or [TS]

  something that was like floating around [TS]

  but that is exactly the type of thing [TS]

  that i would expect from Apple to try to [TS]

  have tried to be classy and and not [TS]

  sleazy friend for the reason that like i [TS]

  posted about this early on Twitter today [TS]

  i mentioned earlier when Marco we said [TS]

  that the ads are clearly marked doesn't [TS]

  quite work on Twitter when I what I said [TS]

  was that I had heard a couple stories [TS]

  about how the ads how you know as will [TS]

  be in search results and all of them had [TS]

  the same screenshot ice and provided by [TS]

  Apple that shows the search and shows [TS]

  and at the top and I saw that picture [TS]

  four separate times on four separate [TS]

  websites each time i looked at it it was [TS]

  like you know in the mix with an article [TS]

  that I like skimming and reading or [TS]

  whatever I look at the screenshot like I [TS]

  guess best this is showing an ad result [TS]

  and I looked at and go oh no it's not [TS]

  showing a result this is just regular [TS]

  search results because at that point I [TS]

  didn't know it [TS]

  from Apple I thought people were just [TS]

  showing what the App Store search looks [TS]

  like four times I looked at it only on [TS]

  the fourth time did I realize they're [TS]

  trying to show this as one of those ads [TS]

  search results and I looked at it a [TS]

  little closer and then I saw the tiny [TS]

  letters ad in a little tiny blue light [TS]

  blue box in a light blue thing and so i [TS]

  posted to Twitter course everyone said [TS]

  it once you say this is including mark [TS]

  is an added you know I basically posted [TS]

  the store and I saw this image four [TS]

  times before i realized that it was an [TS]

  ad when you said that everyone looks [TS]

  little things add right there you clear [TS]

  seems clear that if you're looking with [TS]

  that mindset yes and other people like [TS]

  how can you not tell it's blue blue [TS]

  doesn't mean add I thought it was like [TS]

  the top hit a selected hit I have no [TS]

  idea why it was blue and this is this is [TS]

  a real phenomenon someone posted a tweet [TS]

  with a study showing something like [TS]

  fifty-seven percent of people don't [TS]

  identify ads in my google search results [TS]

  as ads even though they're also clearly [TS]

  marked again with a little tiny yellow [TS]

  thing that says add them or whatever if [TS]

  you're not going into with the mindset [TS]

  that some of the things are going to be [TS]

  ads and that you should look to see how [TS]

  they're identified you won't recognize [TS]

  this as an ad it will look like the most [TS]

  prominent and the most important [TS]

  especially if it's colored differently [TS]

  and it's on the top but there's a [TS]

  difference between recognizing that you [TS]

  know people say what do you care about a [TS]

  good analogy some given Twitter was like [TS]

  when you go into the store to buy DVDs [TS]

  which i guess is an old person who said [TS]

  this and you see the video and you see a [TS]

  DVD on the end cap of the display right [TS]

  someone paid for that end cap place was [TS]

  all retail thing where you pay the [TS]

  retailer more money to have your thing [TS]

  more prominently placed do you care that [TS]

  they paid for that placement or do you [TS]

  just care that all that's the [TS]

  application that i want but that analogy [TS]

  does not work at all because what you [TS]

  want people to know is again in theory [TS]

  this breakdown for example searches so [TS]

  bad you want them to think when I do a [TS]

  search the things near the top of the [TS]

  search are the most relevant to the [TS]

  thing i searched ads don't care about [TS]

  your relevance again modulo apples rules [TS]

  the thing at the top when it's an ad is [TS]

  not there because Apple search out room [TS]

  thinks this is the most relevant [TS]

  application for your search [TS]

  it's there because someone paid for it [TS]

  to be there for your search and that is [TS]

  different is different you know from the [TS]

  users perspective you want to know [TS]

  oh this must be the thing you know I [TS]

  searched for [TS]

  no Twitter and this is the top one this [TS]

  must be the best twitter application the [TS]

  most popular Twitter application the [TS]

  most downloaded to upper application the [TS]

  application that most matches the [TS]

  keyword Twitter or is it more [TS]

  complicated thing or whatever [TS]

  none of those things are true if it's an [TS]

  ad it is an ad the answer is it's [TS]

  because someone paid a lot of money to [TS]

  put it there which is totally different [TS]

  and it totally a misaligned incentives [TS]

  love the user was expecting now because [TS]

  Apple search results are so terrible [TS]

  maybe a paid ad is just as relevant is [TS]

  that important in many cases but but you [TS]

  know in theory it's not i'm not saying [TS]

  that shouldn't be at having only one and [TS]

  it's good having it you know having you [TS]

  not be able to fill it with with garbage [TS]

  lies and well I know that's it again we [TS]

  fall back on the App Store not doing [TS]

  that great i was going to say that [TS]

  because the ads themselves can only [TS]

  contain text from your actual [TS]

  application like you don't get to write [TS]

  and add you don't get the right like [TS]

  your own ad copy it just pulls from your [TS]

  actual application on the story you have [TS]

  to have an application on the store and [TS]

  all this does is pull your icon your [TS]

  name your description everything from [TS]

  your actually entry that should go [TS]

  towards making sure that you can't make [TS]

  it misleading and or fake at [TS]

  unfortunately as we see many times over [TS]

  you can make it misleading application [TS]

  icon you can make misleading application [TS]

  name and you can make your description [TS]

  misleading and those can all be in the [TS]

  store so this doesn't really say this [TS]

  but again in theory the rule system is [TS]

  correct [TS]

  you don't get to write your own custom [TS]

  and so it's very classy there's only one [TS]

  of them is limited [TS]

  if everything goes well they should all [TS]

  work out really well and still I say [TS]

  that it's not even a passport no matter [TS]

  how prominently apple says this is an ad [TS]

  most people i feel not realize it's an [TS]

  ad they could but ad and gigantic black [TS]

  letters and people like huh weird ad [TS]

  letters because they could put this is [TS]

  an advertisement surgeon general's [TS]

  warning smoking causes cancer and giant [TS]

  box people would still not see it this [TS]

  this is a real phenomenon happens all [TS]

  the time and apples being so super [TS]

  subtle about it there's no chance to [TS]

  people regular people are going to [TS]

  realize this is an endless someone [TS]

  pointed out to them even if they notice [TS]

  the ad they be like that mean is this an [TS]

  advanced copy or business application [TS]

  contain ads like it is not clear at all [TS]

  now maybe it doesn't really matter in [TS]

  the grand scheme of things whether it's [TS]

  clear because it most of the top Google [TS]

  search results are also adds and nobody [TS]

  knows when people click on them in the [TS]

  world turns on and everything is fine [TS]

  but i think that is the final barrier to [TS]

  like [TS]

  a completely clean totally classy sound [TS]

  like Donald Trump now you know like [TS]

  believe me you don't it yeah an apple [TS]

  style [TS]

  how does Apple do advertising in a way [TS]

  that avoids all the pitfalls of [TS]

  advertising I think they have avoided [TS]

  pretty much every single one of them in [TS]

  theory except for the part where people [TS]

  just absolutely cannot tell that this [TS]

  thing is an ad [TS]

  well I think the reason that well one of [TS]

  the reasons it's so hard to tell it's an [TS]

  ad is one of the really great decisions [TS]

  they've made which is what you were just [TS]

  talking about that you can't really [TS]

  write an ad for your app it just shows [TS]

  your apps search results at the top and [TS]

  labels it as an ad and I think that's [TS]

  really smart because then you're not [TS]

  gonna have a bunch of like really [TS]

  obnoxious like you punch the monkey sort [TS]

  of things going on but on the other side [TS]

  of the coin it makes it nearly [TS]

  indistinguishable from all the genuine [TS]

  search results below it so it's kind of [TS]

  a double-edged sword but I will [TS]

  absolutely take this approach over [TS]

  allowing any sort of image there in or [TS]

  you know god-awful punch the monkey sort [TS]

  of things [TS]

  this is a much class here much better [TS]

  approach even despite the fact that by [TS]

  forcing it to look like the search [TS]

  results below it [TS]

  it does kind of blend in a bit and the [TS]

  thing is not to blame them because it [TS]

  does look distinct it's not like oh this [TS]

  is just like all of it but it looks like [TS]

  the best result like that was that I [TS]

  gotta find the survey for the show notes [TS]

  but the survey result was like they [TS]

  showed people search results and others [TS]

  google but like from a search engine and [TS]

  I asked them what do you think these top [TS]

  results are and people would say these [TS]

  are the most popular results [TS]

  these are the most relevant results [TS]

  these are the results than most other [TS]

  the most other people clicked on like [TS]

  this is what people thought those [TS]

  results for what they actually wears ads [TS]

  people could tell they were different [TS]

  that they were highlighted they were [TS]

  prominent but what they would read that [TS]

  as is [TS]

  these are the best like it is it does [TS]

  look different you can tell there's the [TS]

  white results and then there's the one [TS]

  blue and on top but how you interpret [TS]

  that blueness is not built into the [TS]

  blueness like you can tell that's blue [TS]

  are you colorblind know you can see that [TS]

  it's different everyone sees it is [TS]

  different but if you ask them you know [TS]

  again you know prime by giving the [TS]

  answer and say can you tell this is an [TS]

  ad you say what do you think the blue [TS]

  results were I bet people are going to [TS]

  say that's the best result that's the [TS]

  one that's the most downloaded that's [TS]

  you know like that's the highest rated [TS]

  some people are going to say even though [TS]

  it says right in their face capital a [TS]

  lowercase D a tiny little blue box that [TS]

  I guarantee my parents cannot see by the [TS]

  way even if you made it bigger people [TS]

  won't read it or people will think that [TS]

  meant the application contains ads which [TS]

  by the way is the thing that should [TS]

  probably tell you when they do tell you [TS]

  that contains an app purchases but [TS]

  anyway not clear [TS]

  not really apple's fault entirely [TS]

  probably almost nothing we can do about [TS]

  it but it's one of the reasons that i [TS]

  was asking me if I was for or against [TS]

  this change [TS]

  um I'm think I'm slightly against it [TS]

  because i don't i would rather just have [TS]

  a really good search i see all the [TS]

  things that Marco saying about it from a [TS]

  user perspective how applications gain [TS]

  traction in the market is not my problem [TS]

  and i just want really relevant search [TS]

  results without any ads that have to [TS]

  skip over honestly like I as a user I [TS]

  mean maybe I'm biased I'm a developer [TS]

  and I kind of understand that the back [TS]

  workings of this but like as a user I [TS]

  think it also might be helpful to know [TS]

  like you know because the searches [TS]

  usually pretty pretty poor if you're [TS]

  looking for something decent [TS]

  if an app is advertising there's a [TS]

  better i think there's a there's a [TS]

  better chance it's a decent app because [TS]

  like all this happens that is like being [TS]

  cared for it has a budget like or it has [TS]

  a really good free-to-play hooks and [TS]

  it's gonna it's a it's going to bankrupt [TS]

  me my kids spend lots of money and I [TS]

  mean obviously like you know games or [TS]

  games or a different story here and and [TS]

  games I i think we we don't usually when [TS]

  we're talking about like act pricing and [TS]

  issues and so I think we aren't usually [TS]

  talking about games which is worth [TS]

  clarifying because games are obviously [TS]

  not only are they a massive part of the [TS]

  app store and we should be talking about [TS]

  them the majority of the appstore [TS]

  exactly but but but they also work very [TS]

  differently in a lot of different ways [TS]

  and and so you know if you're thinking [TS]

  if you're talking apps like yunnan game [TS]

  apps if you're searching for something [TS]

  to do something a certain type of app [TS]

  whatever the one that advertises their [TS]

  and this shows up there and that Apple [TS]

  has deemed relevant to your search query [TS]

  enough to show you that add that [TS]

  honestly to me is is one signal of of [TS]

  many that you should take with like [TS]

  whether this is the this is the one you [TS]

  look at or not you know because it's you [TS]

  know it's like having a high-quality [TS]

  icon or high quality screenshot so you [TS]

  know or like you know having whether you [TS]

  like garbage up your name with a whole [TS]

  bunch of crap or whether you leave a [TS]

  fairly clean like [TS]

  it just is one signal of many that you [TS]

  can use try to figure out when you're [TS]

  searching for something [TS]

  what should i do what should i look [TS]

  further into then the search results [TS]

  screen like you know what way to tap [TS]

  into to glance at to evaluate and decide [TS]

  whether to download or not an app that [TS]

  has decided to pay for an ad and the can [TS]

  pay for an ad and that is running an [TS]

  active ad campaign and that Apple has [TS]

  deemed relevant those are all useful [TS]

  signals to use that same logic when you [TS]

  do Google searches you click on the [TS]

  first five things which are all ads I [TS]

  don't do this which is anymore but but [TS]

  oftentimes 4dr go i do pictures I don't [TS]

  that guy I I'm to kc you use DuckDuckGo [TS]

  you got all your photos and google [TS]

  phones they have every picture your [TS]

  family but you don't give them your [TS]

  searches right because i actually think [TS]

  that dr. go has been better for me those [TS]

  those banks shortcuts whatever they call [TS]

  them are the best those are great those [TS]

  docs man that sucks really getting to [TS]

  you they're really going now so it's [TS]

  like but you know in general search [TS]

  search result ads I do occasionally [TS]

  click on because they are cases when i'm [TS]

  looking for like you know it not every [TS]

  time certainly but sometimes sometimes [TS]

  when i search amazon amazon has like has [TS]

  sponsored listings and like sponsor [TS]

  alternatives to products [TS]

  something-something on those two not all [TS]

  the time but sometimes I you know I know [TS]

  what that means [TS]

  and I just so you know I i use that as [TS]

  again one input of many to decide what [TS]

  to do with these results i will see how [TS]

  it works out i can see many scenarios in [TS]

  which the people with the most money to [TS]

  spawn spend on ads are going to be the [TS]

  worst developers with the worst apps but [TS]

  it's only one and realistically speaking [TS]

  most of the time searching for a nap [TS]

  because of the the technique that i am [TS]

  already know exactly what I'm looking [TS]

  for I don't spend a lot of time browsing [TS]

  so maybe it's not particularly relevant [TS]

  to my life but in general I don't really [TS]

  like the idea of advertisements can [TS]

  bring themselves into the store in this [TS]

  way but you know if I can see the [TS]

  potential upside for developers on many [TS]

  fronts so if it helps more good [TS]

  developers that helps bad developers I [TS]

  guess the net win for users as well [TS]

  yeah and and honestly if you think about [TS]

  like big picture you know long-term [TS]

  stuff here [TS]

  I think not only does this make it [TS]

  easier for less known developers to get [TS]

  better known and it makes it way easier [TS]

  to [TS]

  launched a new app in a crowded category [TS]

  but also long-term I think this helps [TS]

  kind of support higher prices were like [TS]

  if we if we're trying to move towards an [TS]

  app store where developers have good [TS]

  reasons to charge higher prices and can [TS]

  sustain those prices [TS]

  one of the ways you can get higher [TS]

  prices is by getting your app in front [TS]

  of a better targeted audience for people [TS]

  to be to potentially buy it and so this [TS]

  the as well help on that front also [TS]

  developers want to consider the cost of [TS]

  the ads when considering how to price [TS]

  their apps will have how high they can [TS]

  price them how how low they can afford [TS]

  to price them are not afford to price [TS]

  them this is all going to be kind of [TS]

  added into the all this calculus and all [TS]

  this marketing so like this will in [TS]

  general I think helped slightly raised [TS]

  at prices and better reward developers [TS]

  who who can find a target market this [TS]

  way I mean it's AI think i think this is [TS]

  a really big move towards higher quality [TS]

  more sustainable software and and making [TS]

  it easier not harder for new developers [TS]

  to break in the market [TS]

  alright so a couple of quick points and [TS]

  then we really need to get in some wdc [TS]

  talk beta will be over the summer and [TS]

  they're not going to charge people [TS]

  during the beta they are not showing ads [TS]

  to anyone 13 or younger which i think is [TS]

  excellent and they're not going to do [TS]

  any terribly crazy tracking outside of [TS]

  location tracking which you cannot be [TS]

  pretty easily turn off in settings so [TS]

  this is I mean as advertising goes it's [TS]

  a pretty Apple pretty classy approach to [TS]

  it but it is still advertising in a [TS]

  place that we may or may not want it so [TS]

  we'll see but I'm hopeful I'm hopeful [TS]

  mitt and this is like apples second move [TS]

  into a second or third depending how you [TS]

  can move into google style businesses [TS]

  tried to do i add a serious kind of [TS]

  google style thing and maybe this is [TS]

  what you know google and facebook like [TS]

  their businesses are based on this type [TS]

  of thing and so it's about time because [TS]

  certainly google has done tons of apple [TS]

  style things including making their own [TS]

  hardware and making a phone [TS]

  and you know doing all this stuff and [TS]

  trying to have a desktop operating [TS]

  system and facebook name is calculus [TS]

  with on the harbourfront then they try [TS]

  to make a phone once to anyway [TS]

  yeah you know what's good for the goose [TS]

  is good for the gander it's nice to see [TS]

  Apple like yeah I know it's nice to see [TS]

  if I'm not that into the advertising but [TS]

  like for so long it seems that every [TS]

  other company was willing to try to do [TS]

  the things that Apple was good at and [TS]

  there were certain things that those [TS]

  other companies that to make lots of [TS]

  money that Apple decided but not worth [TS]

  really looking into selling ads against [TS]

  search is not a speculative business [TS]

  model at this point it is it is a known [TS]

  quantity and the fact that Apple just [TS]

  didn't do it for so long [TS]

  other than selling this Safari search [TS]

  particle but that's kind of more of a [TS]

  corporate thing and then an individual [TS]

  building on keywords ya ever want to [TS]

  make more money from services [TS]

  this couldn't work out i saw someone [TS]

  joking in the again on the the [TS]

  pessimistic angle that the 1815 split [TS]

  all the extra money that the developers [TS]

  make will get fun right back into apple [TS]

  in the form of thing for keyword search [TS]

  ads but hey if that is a virtuous cycle [TS]

  that it produces more and more revenue [TS]

  and more and more customers i think [TS]

  everyone will still be happy [TS]

  yeah i agree let's talk to BBC swc it's [TS]

  the thing that you two are going to that [TS]

  I'm not [TS]

  thanks for that uh-huh so this is [TS]

  wednesday that we're recording the [TS]

  eighth of june this coming monday the [TS]

  13th of june is the big keynote and then [TS]

  following the keynote as a developer [TS]

  state of the union [TS]

  so what are we expecting Apple will [TS]

  announce we are hearing no hardware [TS]

  we're hearing a lot of rumors about [TS]

  Syrian OS 10 / a mac OS what are we [TS]

  thinking let's start with Marco [TS]

  basically you know its software update [TS]

  that I think maybe the big thing you [TS]

  know what what's new in iOS what's new [TS]

  one on max what is new [TS]

  no TV watching mean look apple now has [TS]

  four platforms that they are hopefully [TS]

  evolving at [TS]

  at a steady pace you know like iOS is i [TS]

  mean i would imagine it's got a slow at [TS]

  some point going to mature at some point [TS]

  but you know apple always pushes that [TS]

  one really hard [TS]

  the ipad is probably has like separate [TS]

  enhancements for multitasking and [TS]

  everything so that's it was gonna be [TS]

  like probably especially example still [TS]

  is pushing the ipad hard trying to try [TS]

  to save its its sales decline so you [TS]

  know I expect to see major time and [TS]

  energy devoted to ipad software [TS]

  improvements for pro use in all [TS]

  likelihood things like multitasking [TS]

  so you know what's new on the iphone [TS]

  that's gonna take some big stuff [TS]

  what's new in mac OS 12 well you know [TS]

  that's that's obviously going to be a [TS]

  part of it [TS]

  anything that's new you know if there's [TS]

  you know any new major underlying [TS]

  technologies any new method of storing [TS]

  files on the on the local disk John you [TS]

  know if there's anything you know it [TS]

  shared technology that's gonna get some [TS]

  time and then you gotta figure like this [TS]

  is going to be the first WTC since the [TS]

  appletv was launched [TS]

  it's probably going to be something [TS]

  Apple TV lady no major new stuff and [TS]

  apple TV OS whatever tos and then I i [TS]

  honestly hope there's significant [TS]

  changes to watch us too because I'm [TS]

  sorry you're out you're out of time in [TS]

  the keynote exactly like you know they [TS]

  they invited us to all this like [TS]

  developer after changes today because [TS]

  you know if you think about like all the [TS]

  software platforms that need to go into [TS]

  that keynote at that are especially the [TS]

  ones that are still fairly young like [TS]

  ipad pro and TV OS and watch us that [TS]

  still have like lots of room for major [TS]

  improvements I i think it's gonna be a [TS]

  pretty funky not to mention if they [TS]

  actually shovin the app music updated [TS]

  damage was rumored I hope they don't but [TS]

  I think they probably will you know if [TS]

  they actually shove that in there too [TS]

  that that takes even more time and then [TS]

  we know try to keep the keynotes to [TS]

  under two hours so like I think it's [TS]

  gonna be you know software updates the [TS]

  whole thing basically software software [TS]

  it's almost the whole time and then [TS]

  maybe maybe a little bit for Apple music [TS]

  and and that's that's two hours easily [TS]

  the thing I'm most interested in is [TS]

  there's been a humongous push towards [TS]

  cloud data and big data and in [TS]

  processing [TS]

  yo huge quantities of data in doing its [TS]

  server side like Google photos as a [TS]

  great example and i'm really curious to [TS]

  see and actually alexa from amazon Kurt [TS]

  really curious to see what is Apple's [TS]

  answer to this or maybe even not answer [TS]

  but what is their approach to solving [TS]

  similar problems and they're not even [TS]

  necessarily with photos but just in [TS]

  general everyone who has Alexis seems to [TS]

  fall in love with her [TS]

  so what is Apple doing with Siri or [TS]

  inequivalent technology to to keep our [TS]

  attention on products that they create [TS]

  and I don't know what it's gonna be but [TS]

  I'm very curious to see what they do in [TS]

  that department because I suspect [TS]

  they're going to do something that that [TS]

  is a little bit different than everyone [TS]

  else a little bit more apple than [TS]

  everyone else which is obvious but [TS]

  something that we didn't really expect [TS]

  in and I'm looking forward to seeing [TS]

  what that is here Marco make his a [TS]

  snarky filesystem comment about new ways [TS]

  of storing it's the disk or whatever we [TS]

  realize they were all entering the the [TS]

  the the age where we say things like I'm [TS]

  gonna did you tape that on TV I think we [TS]

  also taped you guys say tape that you [TS]

  should take that not I know what you're [TS]

  saying but I think I usually say record [TS]

  and you may be past that but I'm [TS]

  borderline in my generation we all take [TS]

  things you know and it doesn't make any [TS]

  sense because for such a long time we [TS]

  haven't been using VCRs for anything [TS]

  that has actual tape so we still on [TS]

  phones and even you watch the WC [TS]

  presentations unless it's being done by [TS]

  a very young person will talk about you [TS]

  know dis guy or writing things the disc [TS]

  there's no disc never has been a disk in [TS]

  a phone right as in a round thing that [TS]

  spins but we still say disk so disc is [TS]

  the new tape [TS]

  what else is new anyway speaking of that [TS]

  you know if they want to know fossil [TS]

  that's fine [TS]

  like whatever I still say 2017 is you're [TS]

  not going to see this thing on people's [TS]

  computers so 27 but you want to announce [TS]

  the early i'm all for it [TS]

  bring it on any way to more serious [TS]

  predictions [TS]

  I'm really said if the always rumors [TS]

  about no hardware going to be our true [TS]

  because I'm excited about hardware but [TS]

  you know what can you do if it's just [TS]

  the obvious ones are [TS]

  no the the mac and iOS updates because [TS]

  we know the iOS upstate like whatever we [TS]

  know that's happening the mac one we [TS]

  also kind of know what's happening you [TS]

  know about a rebrand we know about [TS]

  cerium on on the Mac I don't know what [TS]

  other features are going to mix that [TS]

  that's all well and good [TS]

  based on the the marketing and the [TS]

  design of the WTC site and also all the [TS]

  activity on swift evolution which has [TS]

  been totally out in the open [TS]

  surely there will be stuff in there [TS]

  about the new version of Swift I mean we [TS]

  have we already know everything about [TS]

  two or three look at the mentalist all [TS]

  public you know what's going to be in [TS]

  that I don't think it's gonna be any [TS]

  surprises they're like oh there's a [TS]

  secret Peter Swift three that we didn't [TS]

  reveal maybe one or two minor ones like [TS]

  that but nothing earth-shattering but [TS]

  they will emphasize that you know it [TS]

  will get a slider too and the keynote [TS]

  and much more in the state of the union [TS]

  hey if you haven't been paying attention [TS]

  Swift 3 is actually pretty difference [TS]

  with 2.2 in a bunch of ways they're [TS]

  gonna break your apps but don't worry ! [TS]

  for you [TS]

  well in speaking of xcode you know you [TS]

  said that you there's not a lot of [TS]

  surprises they can have with regard to [TS]

  Swift because it's all out in the open [TS]

  and i agree but they could certainly [TS]

  have some surprises around xcode for [TS]

  example much better switch support for [TS]

  example syntax highlighting that doesn't [TS]

  crash constantly for example segfaults [TS]

  11 going away maybe crashes even more is [TS]

  that a feature a bucket historically [TS]

  speaking they've done a lot of changes [TS]

  to 2x go to support Swift and not all of [TS]

  them have reduced the number of crashes [TS]

  yeah so we'll see i would love God what [TS]

  I ever loved to have some improvements [TS]

  tax code with regard to Swift and [TS]

  actually I like xcode I don't I don't [TS]

  begrudge it like so many people seem to [TS]

  perhaps because i haven't been using it [TS]

  long enough but they're definitely [TS]

  annoyances that I run into pretty much [TS]

  daily that I would read typically around [TS]

  Swift that I would love to see improved [TS]

  so fingers crossed your mind that you're [TS]

  pretty much guaranteed to get that [TS]

  there's going to be a new version of [TS]

  xcode it's going to have better Swift [TS]

  supports going to fewer bugs going to be [TS]

  faster it's going to support all the [TS]

  news but like that's going to happen it [TS]

  happens every year that's gonna happen [TS]

  as well it's also that's also give me I [TS]

  think the wild cards for me are again [TS]

  still sticking the software watching TV [TS]

  I don't know first water how much room [TS]

  there is it the things i just listed [TS]

  you're already at the point where you [TS]

  have room for maybe one or two more [TS]

  segments how much can you really say [TS]

  about why [TS]

  NTV i also have a hundred the impression [TS]

  that one of those two platforms is not [TS]

  going to have that much knew about it I [TS]

  just don't know which one it is right i [TS]

  hope its TV because the newer one and [TS]

  the watch could really use some some TLC [TS]

  but i'm not quite sure what to expect [TS]

  their TV doesn't really need a whole lot [TS]

  right now like but it needs a lot of [TS]

  things in a remote but they're not going [TS]

  to announce that WC yeah like that that [TS]

  would be a fall harbor update thing ate [TS]

  and I honestly I'm not expecting the [TS]

  appletv updated every year i'm guessing [TS]

  we don't get a new one this fall i'm [TS]

  guessing maybe some two-year cycle but [TS]

  we will see that that's we'll talk about [TS]

  that later but the teeth tdos in general [TS]

  like it's it's fine it's it's not you [TS]

  know it's not perfect but it's fine [TS]

  the watch really needs a lot of help in [TS]

  a lot of areas and and it's also as you [TS]

  said it's also the older platform so I [TS]

  would expect i hope that if they if [TS]

  they're trying to figure out how to [TS]

  allocate resources here I hope watch OS [TS]

  gets more attention a reality from what [TS]

  i've heard watch us is still like a very [TS]

  separate team from the rest of the [TS]

  organization but I i really hope we see [TS]

  something significant from watch us and [TS]

  I think we will i think i think the time [TS]

  is right [TS]

  anything didn't have time to do like a [TS]

  whole rethink and revamping just a [TS]

  custom watch faces to get a lot of [TS]

  applause everybody comes out smiling [TS]

  right doesn't take much you know like [TS]

  because that's a significant enough [TS]

  feature where they don't have time to [TS]

  really delve into all the details of how [TS]

  water is the role of the watching balls [TS]

  off you just do custom watched races [TS]

  that opens up such a market and people [TS]

  will attend the sessions and everyone [TS]

  want to make one and people have watches [TS]

  will be excited about the idea that's [TS]

  just you know i'm not saying that I'm [TS]

  not predicting this is something going [TS]

  to do but all you need is one [TS]

  announcement of that caliber it will [TS]

  tamp down a lot of the grumbling and I [TS]

  don't think they have I don't think we [TS]

  have time even the presentation if [TS]

  they've totally thought watch OS like a [TS]

  Marco style we think we're like you know [TS]

  we've learned a lot from years of work [TS]

  and turns out we were totally wrong [TS]

  about a hundred ways that people use [TS]

  their watches I don't know if you have [TS]

  time to talk about that with everything [TS]

  else because the my final prediction is [TS]

  like if this is ready [TS]

  this will be a cornerstone of the [TS]

  presentation which is really no series [TS]

  coming to the mac and everything but [TS]

  like if there is a radically new better [TS]

  version of Siri which I really hope [TS]

  there is I think Apple that will be a [TS]

  fairly big leg on the stool that is this [TS]

  presentation just if not just simply [TS]

  because those things are prominent now [TS]

  with the echo and with uh Alexa and with [TS]

  google i/o lean so heavily on that and [TS]

  with the rumors of apple improving serie [TS]

  they will spend time in the keynote [TS]

  saying series better than ever and i [TS]

  think they have to just show that they [TS]

  are still there still relevant in that [TS]

  market they were one of the the pioneers [TS]

  in that market and they everyone else [TS]

  seemed to be eclipsing they have to say [TS]

  that at least say hey we're still here [TS]

  and I think that would be what they [TS]

  would like to say is in fact the new [TS]

  version of Siri is the most amazing [TS]

  thing you've ever seen and we're going [TS]

  to burn a lot of keynote time showing [TS]

  you the most people talking to a [TS]

  computer that they hope to god listens [TS]

  to them and doesn't want to do live on [TS]

  stage right so I don't know anything [TS]

  about whether a amazing new suit version [TS]

  series ready but if it is i think that's [TS]

  going to get a lot of time so my vision [TS]

  this keynote I see lots of software [TS]

  every single update has something that [TS]

  you like and tentpole features the [TS]

  really new version of Siri Swift in the [TS]

  new version of xcode is that the little [TS]

  developer nugget and then some of the [TS]

  wild card for maybe watch or something [TS]

  else not even thinking of [TS]

  yeah i forgot about Cirie but that's [TS]

  obviously you're totally right and they [TS]

  like you know in the current landscape [TS]

  they they need to say something about [TS]

  series so I i'm totally with you i think [TS]

  i think they will present a new a new [TS]

  version of Syria that appears to be very [TS]

  much improved whether it is actually [TS]

  very much improved we don't know yet and [TS]

  it might not be but they I think they [TS]

  will definitely presented as if it is [TS]

  regardless and if there's an API even [TS]

  better i really really hope there is a [TS]

  serious pii think we are way past due [TS]

  for that but that's part of the number [TS]

  of Siri not just that listens to better [TS]

  with it and it's like those other ones [TS]

  where they all have api's an apple [TS]

  doesn't yet yeah i mean if if there's [TS]

  really an API to Siri that and in and [TS]

  it's done in a way that you know maps [TS]

  can actually take advantage of not just [TS]

  like a handful of contain China use [TS]

  cases but like if it's done well and if [TS]

  it done broadly so the lots of apps can [TS]

  use it for good for lots of good things [TS]

  it almost wouldn't matter how [TS]

  whether the weather underlying service [TS]

  improved at all otherwise or not like [TS]

  that would be enough that is that is [TS]

  such a big deal to do that that would [TS]

  certainly be a much better Cirie and i [TS]

  think the last year i think maybe the [TS]

  past I think my track record for WC [TS]

  predictions the week before have been [TS]

  awful like that I just like totally [TS]

  wrong about everything thats my that [TS]

  just take that in Council is much easier [TS]

  for me to do the next thing which is [TS]

  like which announcements would you must [TS]

  be excited about and the more I think [TS]

  about it the more I think that I would [TS]

  actually be more excited by new macro [TS]

  the new file system not because i think [TS]

  the new mac pro's more need there's a [TS]

  new file system but because that because [TS]

  like the Last Guardian I'm willing to [TS]

  wait till you know I don't have to wait [TS]

  to 2017 Last Guardian right guys 2016 [TS]

  anyway I'm willing to wait 20 17 is my [TS]

  file system year I'm filing it away it's [TS]

  over there 2017 new file system if you [TS]

  want to announce in a fine but if not i [TS]

  will be broken up but this is the year [TS]

  of the new mac pro if you're going to [TS]

  keep making the mac pro it's time so i [TS]

  will that is the b.s announcement that [TS]

  WC will get me personally the most [TS]

  excited is new mac pro not probably [TS]

  nothing but most excited to almost [TS]

  anyone else in the entire audience [TS]

  especially Casey but that's that's what [TS]

  I want if they do new fascism and not [TS]

  the mac pro i'll be like you couldn't [TS]

  save the process until next year [TS]

  give me the mac pro this year because [TS]

  the honestly a new faucet is not going [TS]

  to help anybody not going to help my [TS]

  poor 2008 mac pro right now like its new [TS]

  faucets not even are probably run on it [TS]

  will maybe on the SSD but anyway I want [TS]

  a new mac pro in this completely [TS]

  hardware freaky no time almost certainly [TS]

  not going to get one but that's my [TS]

  pie-in-the-sky dream but if you could [TS]

  pick any feasible announcement for WC is [TS]

  your number one what would it be [TS]

  that's a really good question hmm maybe [TS]

  if we already got like you know [TS]

  substantial app store business model [TS]

  changes today so yeah you can pick that [TS]

  one died was said becomes unfeasible [TS]

  because they were there they recommend [TS]

  this announcement said no longer [TS]

  feasible that they can't do them but [TS]

  it's just that you got them right here [TS]

  talking just keynote not like the whole [TS]

  conference just keynote announcements [TS]

  basically yeah mu1 the wild-card that [TS]

  people are asking for the people are [TS]

  predicting possibly is some kind of [TS]

  developer tools for the ipad of xcode or [TS]

  playgrounds or something else you know [TS]

  some kind of developer story for ipad [TS]

  last [TS]

  year or the year before I thought they [TS]

  were gonna announce that I fully expect [TS]

  has arrived Sunday but i haven't heard [TS]

  enough around like to think this is the [TS]

  year but who knows [TS]

  yeah that's I mean it eventually will [TS]

  you know what's that will be the scope [TS]

  of it like if they wanted to bring just [TS]

  Swift playgrounds you didn't do just [TS]

  that to the ipad without like the whole [TS]

  developer tools stack that's obviously a [TS]

  much smaller problem set to bring over [TS]

  and that is more plausible like you just [TS]

  have playgrounds to bring over like [TS]

  xcode for the ipad yeah i think people [TS]

  who are predicting that maybe don't [TS]

  understand or don't know quite how [TS]

  complex of a job that would be because [TS]

  it isn't just like the xcode interface [TS]

  it's the entire system of you know the [TS]

  massive ecosystem ends and pile of tools [TS]

  and frameworks and everything that goes [TS]

  under xcode everything xcode is like [TS]

  calling out to 22 all the work and and [TS]

  all these build tools and integration [TS]

  with other things that are part of [TS]

  people's build needs and everything like [TS]

  it it's so complex to bring over all of [TS]

  xcode I don't think it's going to happen [TS]

  in the near future because it just [TS]

  depends on its common I think it's [TS]

  pretty near there's a reason i pad press [TS]

  four gigs like if I'm not saying it's [TS]

  going to be this year but i think is [TS]

  totally feasible this year and next year [TS]

  is when you should really be on the [TS]

  lookout if it doesn't happen this year [TS]

  because i think it's coming full on [TS]

  xcode or just like a playground [TS]

  equivalent obviously it will be a [TS]

  different application you can have a [TS]

  short nose and everything right but like [TS]

  all those tools that mark was talking [TS]

  about like I said that so I think that's [TS]

  why the ipad pro is for geeks whilst the [TS]

  ipad pro 4 gigs doesn't make any sense [TS]

  unless unless it is allowing for a class [TS]

  of application that does not yet exist [TS]

  on the ipad and one of those classes of [TS]

  applications would be a ever-so-slightly [TS]

  cut-down version of xcode i don't know i [TS]

  think it has that much ram just so i can [TS]

  multitask efficiently and well but why [TS]

  doesn't mine up for geeks I like the [TS]

  multipath no I I think I think long-term [TS]

  xcode will you know or did you know [TS]

  developer tools will come to the ipad [TS]

  but i don't think we're there yet [TS]

  because it is such a big job playground [TS]

  was it some kind of like very cut down [TS]

  subset of it maybe but like whatever we [TS]

  would call like it's something that we [TS]

  would consider xcode or equivalent can [TS]

  you make an apple [TS]

  on the app star maybe but they're so I [TS]

  mean there's so much there that that is [TS]

  that you need for the platform to [TS]

  support that it just doesn't yet or that [TS]

  it does very clinically so far for [TS]

  developer tools but it wouldn't have to [TS]

  be sandbox you know it would be the one [TS]

  happen to you no rules would apply to [TS]

  that like know but it's so I mean it's [TS]

  so much to bring over and so much change [TS]

  and so much that like you know that [TS]

  people don't worry if you just think [TS]

  about the idea just if you start out [TS]

  there you realize like quite how much [TS]

  more is involved like until you really [TS]

  start thinking about okay well let's [TS]

  bring over things like version control [TS]

  and package management and all the [TS]

  compilers all the linkers all the [TS]

  libraries and all the tools and i think [TS]

  that i think i think they're all running [TS]

  for gigs [TS]

  oh geez I mean it's your menu compile [TS]

  times will not be good know right i [TS]

  don't know any of its already slow on [TS]

  like an imac he goes into building [TS]

  bricks with project it's not it's not [TS]

  fast you know it's something like I [TS]

  think you know long-term I think we'll [TS]

  probably get there but I i would not [TS]

  expect this to be imminent you know [TS]

  unless it is it only a very cut-down [TS]

  version like playgrounds only yeah i [TS]

  agree i had a vision in the audience was [TS]

  announced in my vision was xcode for [TS]

  ipad and now just because i had that [TS]

  vision I feel like it's closer than [TS]

  other people but it doesn't make it any [TS]

  way that wouldn't be your most exciting [TS]

  still haven't said but what you'd be [TS]

  most excited about this feasible i guess [TS]

  it would probably be mac pro plus 5k but [TS]

  I i think it's a no Apple PR has been so [TS]

  clearly leaking to everybody that [TS]

  there's not gonna be any new hardware so [TS]

  I think that's still still feasible that [TS]

  you can have that as your pic i had it [TS]

  is you know what i would do I would even [TS]

  argue it's not feasible because Apple PR [TS]

  has basically said it's not happening [TS]

  I mean like technically feasible like [TS]

  the reason that the appstore changes are [TS]

  feasible because they already did that [TS]

  not because you like you know anyway if [TS]

  you want to pick that I would have [TS]

  picked for you watch her out but you [TS]

  don't wear the watch them are never mind [TS]

  you were so excited about watch races [TS]

  until you stop wearing well and you know [TS]

  i would certainly be interested in [TS]

  developing watch faces i but i think i [TS]

  would be I'd be more interested if the [TS]

  watch hardware also changed have some [TS]

  kind of always-on screen mode because [TS]

  that like what what now I've gotten [TS]

  accustomed to the regular watches [TS]

  the one thing I really they really [TS]

  irritates me when I when I go back to [TS]

  the apple watch for like a day here [TS]

  there is the that the face isn't always [TS]

  on so I can glance out you have to wait [TS]

  for it to turn on and sometimes it [TS]

  doesn't and you know it like that it [TS]

  adding that level of adding that amount [TS]

  of friction to every little interaction [TS]

  that when your lesson [TS]

  listen you're watching you aren't used [TS]

  to it is is very just kinda just grinds [TS]

  like it just it just kinda it's [TS]

  irritating you know so for me to get [TS]

  back into wearing the apple watch and [TS]

  and using it for any meaningful amount [TS]

  of time I would need I think to change [TS]

  out the first I would want custom watch [TS]

  faces and excited and I want to make my [TS]

  own of course and then second i would [TS]

  want some kind of always-on screen and I [TS]

  don't I just don't think that's feasible [TS]

  this year you know that maybe maybe in [TS]

  any hardware event later this year or [TS]

  next year when our new watches unveiled [TS]

  maybe then but honestly given given the [TS]

  state of the watch hardware and software [TS]

  today it doesn't seem like an always-on [TS]

  screen mode is is even in the plans but [TS]

  I don't know why your inability to pick [TS]

  one is in keeping with your top for [TS]

  performance exactly what it is you're i [TS]

  will partially not pick three options [TS]

  here [TS]

  hey your feasible announcement they [TS]

  would you be most excited about [TS]

  mmm SI topics far i don't know i mean i [TS]

  can have answers to both of you going I [TS]

  already gave marcos answer should be on [TS]

  the watch face one cases answer is the [TS]

  the new macbook pro now because I'm not [TS]

  gonna get 1i know what you would be most [TS]

  excited about you want one you know you [TS]

  shouldn't get one you feel ashamed but [TS]

  you'd be like all those are awesome and [TS]

  I think that is true that i would i [TS]

  would lost 4-1 and I would be excited [TS]

  about one but i am pretty happy with my [TS]

  retina 5k life at home and sitting here [TS]

  now and famous Casey last words I don't [TS]

  see anything wrong with my current [TS]

  macbook pro just when do you start [TS]

  unlocking your the people seeing people [TS]

  unlock their new MacBook Pros with touch [TS]

  ID while you're typing in your password [TS]

  lock screen again and again truth now I [TS]

  think [TS]

  you know what I'd this is a very odd [TS]

  choice and it wouldn't be during the [TS]

  keynote i'm quite sure but I'd love to [TS]

  see a reflection a better reflection API [TS]

  and Swift because I feel like that that [TS]

  reflection allows me to solve a whole [TS]

  class of problems and I include in that [TS]

  annotations as well so in cincy sharp [TS]

  that would be attributes reflection [TS]

  annotations and Swift I think would be [TS]

  really really awesome and it would help [TS]

  me solve a bunch of problems that I'm [TS]

  struggling to solve today there are ways [TS]

  around these problems are there ways to [TS]

  solve this problem without reflection [TS]

  without metaprogramming but it would be [TS]

  easier if i had it [TS]

  oh and uh I always get them backwards [TS]

  but covariance and contravariance in [TS]

  generics better support for that because [TS]

  it's driving me up a wall [TS]

  i would say that those aren't feasible [TS]

  only because if they were coming you [TS]

  were to have already seen them and sweat [TS]

  evolution because those are the type of [TS]

  stuff they would and they talk about [TS]

  them and I think they are coming but [TS]

  probably not sore throat but that's what [TS]

  I want most see what we all want things [TS]

  that are not feasible right that's the [TS]

  problem but so many things that are [TS]

  feasible like I think all the [TS]

  unannounced hardware is feasible like [TS]

  they'd announce it even if it's not [TS]

  shipping for a long time right [TS]

  even a new Apple TV or something like [TS]

  that would be feasible but I well I mean [TS]

  I think it's something that is truly [TS]

  feasible that i think i would be the [TS]

  most amped up about is actually probably [TS]

  the Thunderbolt Display because it at [TS]

  first I didn't really get the draw but [TS]

  now now that I'm living this life like [TS]

  that we were discussing earlier where [TS]

  I'm really living in the simulator and [TS]

  doing it on a non retina screen it's [TS]

  pretty freaking miserable and it's it's [TS]

  miserable enough that i would probably [TS]

  use my own personal money to buy myself [TS]

  a thunderbolt display or whatever they [TS]

  end up calling in a rednecks turn an [TS]

  external retina display and bringing it [TS]

  to the office and having it just live [TS]

  there because it would make my [TS]

  professional life that much better that [TS]

  Apple on 5k external displays chop-chop [TS]

  yes please you know John you have to buy [TS]

  new mac pro to drive it yeah i know [TS]

  there is no way you're 2008 mac pro is [TS]

  driving that thing GW inside or not [TS]

  there's no really it's okay [TS]

  you'll even have Thunderbolt 1-port you [TS]

  don't even have USB 3 nope you need is [TS]

  the current my pro yeah that's right [TS]

  yeah just definitely the US base doesn't [TS]

  have USBC see actors [TS]

  alright thanks to our three sponsors [TS]

  this week ring hover and back plays and [TS]

  we will see you next week [TS]

  live from California where we will be on [TS]

  vacation always now the show is over [TS]

  they didn't even mean to begin because [TS]

  it was accidental was accidental [TS]

  John research Marco and Casey would let [TS]

  him because it was accidentally was [TS]

  accidental and you can find show know [TS]

  today [TS] and if your twitter follow them [TS]

  s/he yl ISS that's Casey list and a [TS]

  co-pay rm20 Marco Arment and our AC at [TS]

  Syracuse [TS]

  so if you want this this big time we [TS]

  talked about my garbage topic at the [TS]

  bottom of the list the change the change [TS]

  of opinion you decide you love the Apple [TS]

  watch [TS]

  yeah Margo changes in opinion and i love [TS]

  how that's a bullet point the app so i [TS]

  think i like the ipad now [TS]

  oh god okay my you just sold the big pro [TS]

  I thought that was like you want to big [TS]

  pros and you sold yourself tipsy she's [TS]

  using smaller now so we got the big pro [TS]

  at different if thought you might be [TS]

  interested in it and she was her like it [TS]

  was her upgrade cycle for the ipad like [TS]

  her upgrade year and she ended up just [TS]

  not really liking it that much love the [TS]

  pencil support but it was just so big [TS]

  she kept her to her regular-sized [TS]

  10-inch I've had around also had two [TS]

  ipads if you're not my core cgpgrey is [TS]

  kind of you know it's it's burdensome [TS]

  and a little bit wasteful and in some [TS]

  ways so you know from for most people so [TS]

  she decided she said I could have the [TS]

  big Pro and she wouldn't you [TS]

  we got her one of the new baby present [TS]

  came out because you know she wanted [TS]

  pencil support we wanted to consolidate [TS]

  so it's got a new baby bro and I got the [TS]

  big one and the big 1i didn't have much [TS]

  to do with you know it's like I said [TS]

  this is not for me at all [TS]

  so since neither was reading the big one [TS]

  we sold it the baby pro though one thing [