The Accidental Tech Podcast

180: Don't Cry for John, Argentina


  that's right it's given me time to us [TS]

  since we're in this no-man's land [TS]

  give me time to eat this delicious warm [TS]

  apple pie that Aaron just brought up [TS]

  that she just made because apparently [TS]

  that's what we decide to do when it's a [TS]

  thousand degrees also eating all podcast [TS]

  think what do you think you are John [TS]

  Roderick no eating well party as they [TS]

  did you hear anything up until I [TS]

  admitted it nope have have you yet [TS]

  spilled any apple pie into your imac now [TS]

  that would be quite impressive the feet [TS]

  though it really would I mean I just [TS]

  really eating in podcasting do not mix [TS]

  well that's what meet buttons for it [TS]

  feels like we just got off the phone [TS]

  like we just got off skype for the last [TS]

  episode and it really honestly does your [TS]

  heart get two nights later there 48 [TS]

  hours later almost to the minute i'm [TS]

  barely published last episode so as we [TS]

  record it is friday evening the [TS]

  twenty-second of july and one of us is [TS]

  skipping town next weekend so recording [TS]

  early because we're dedicated to you our [TS]

  listeners and don't want you to go [TS]

  anytime for any weeks i should say [TS]

  without a new episode of this accidental [TS]

  of podcasts and so we are recording very [TS]

  shortly after the last show in did not [TS]

  have a lot of time to accumulate [TS]

  follow-up that being said as always we [TS]

  do have some for you do we want to dive [TS]

  right in gentlemen let's do it let's [TS]

  start with the dog rental there which [TS]

  was the namesake for the last episode [TS]

  free-to-play free-to-play dogs was yeah [TS]

  that's right now anyway the internet is [TS]

  written into to correct us and is [TS]

  referred to the the true gift to [TS]

  humanity that is which says [TS]

  that the title they used was pika q [TS]

  which I thought was kind of funny they [TS]

  correct us in the story that we told [TS]

  about the animal shelter and the dogs to [TS]

  quote from snopes claim a shelter rented [TS]

  dogs from Aristotle pokemon go players [TS]

  and rent raked in tons of cash for all [TS]

  their dogs were swiftly adopted mostly [TS]

  false what's true the Muncie animal [TS]

  shelter muncie indiana enacted a novel [TS]

  pokemon go dog walking program inviting [TS]

  local store shelter dogs during the [TS]

  gaming sessions what's false the shelter [TS]

  didn't charge players five dollars an [TS]

  hour per dog to scare quotes rent dogs [TS]

  for also it was free to play that's the [TS]

  fair point [TS]

  Cooper in talks for walking [TS]

  they were not rant rapidly cleared of [TS]

  dogs for adoption or do they make [TS]

  megabox off a program designed to [TS]

  harness the gaming phenomenon to get [TS]

  shelter dogs some time outside so that [TS]

  was all about ups for the most part but [TS]

  it's still an adorable story and I'm I'm [TS]

  kind of glad we talked about it anyway [TS]

  as I do things on this first I [TS]

  intentionally didn't retweet people [TS]

  pointing us to the Stopes because i [TS]

  wanted to give people like a week to [TS]

  think it's real [TS]

  of course it doesn't work if we record [TS]

  two days after the previous one people [TS]

  who aren't listening to the livestream I [TS]

  want to give them i mean maybe you guys [TS]

  already are treated so that's that's too [TS]

  bad i did not i didn't have the heart I [TS]

  i want to give people a week to to [TS]

  believe like when we preface this in the [TS]

  past the last show or like you know who [TS]

  knows that this is true it's on the [TS]

  internet blah blah but it sounds like a [TS]

  good story that's of course all the [TS]

  things that are made up on the internet [TS]

  selling a good story that's how they [TS]

  spread but i like to give people a week [TS]

  to think it was real because it said it [TS]

  was a nice heartwarming story and the [TS]

  second Casey referred to slopes like the [TS]

  gift of the internet or whatever it used [TS]

  to be a lot more than it is now the [TS]

  snopes website is pretty grim pretty [TS]

  different diagram like it is not a nice [TS]

  place to be i was scrolling through this [TS]

  story in this like this picture of [TS]

  maggots at the bottom that's part of one [TS]

  of those terrible ads and everything is [TS]

  like blinking calling and God yeah [TS]

  you're right [TS]

  no it's not it's not a good sign i don't [TS]

  know what happened to you feel like like [TS]

  IMDb or whatever and I'm TVs gotten [TS]

  worse to be like you do you think these [TS]

  old sort of things that are around a [TS]

  long time ago that have value that sort [TS]

  of our category defining websites should [TS]

  have found some way to to make it work [TS]

  without making their sights more and [TS]

  more gross over time but but alas but [TS]

  that's just that's just the web these [TS]

  days and it isn't like snopes run by [TS]

  horrible people and I don't know who [TS]

  runs it but it's not just the web these [TS]

  days no it really is it isn't digit is [TS]

  just your in your cynical view think [TS]

  every website is doomed to this paper [TS]

  that's not true there are websites that [TS]

  are not like that even IMDb which has [TS]

  gotten worse in terms of usability but [TS]

  hasn't become festooned with ads and [TS]

  viruses and pictures of maggots and [TS]

  there's a pro version that you can pay [TS]

  for because read a lot of that crap like [TS]

  that's the way you do it or Wikipedia [TS]

  Wikipedia is not you know doesn't have [TS]

  to believe whatever ads [TS]

  bottom of it it's got what's-his-name's [TS]

  face coming down asking for money but [TS]

  still it's not you know if this is not [TS]

  the ultimate fate of every website this [TS]

  is the fate of websites that are slowly [TS]

  going circling the drain [TS]

  it's it's very hard to monetize a [TS]

  website in 2016 that doesn't have a very [TS]

  particularly targeted audience likes [TS]

  nopes in ways that aren't horrible like [TS]

  it [TS]

  this is this is not like a gradual [TS]

  progression that happened over the last [TS]

  20 years [TS]

  this is a very rapid progression [TS]

  happened over the last like three years [TS]

  it's been it's been very recent very [TS]

  quick with with the the massive shift in [TS]

  traffic of like where traffic comes from [TS]

  going all the way into facebook a ton of [TS]

  of desktop browsing going away being [TS]

  replaced by either phone browsing or [TS]

  just not browsing websites and just [TS]

  spending more time in social networks [TS]

  instead it and of course all the you [TS]

  know Robo ad networks and all the [TS]

  problems that go along with those like [TS]

  the horrible ads and the massive fraud [TS]

  problems and I mean it it's a tough [TS]

  business now to try to make money by [TS]

  just having an ad-supported website it's [TS]

  very very hard it's nearly impossible [TS]

  for most sites to do it in a way that [TS]

  they can both afford to have any kind of [TS]

  staff quality at all and also have a [TS]

  site that is not very focused you know [TS]

  audience why so it can get very [TS]

  expensive ads and that is not just full [TS]

  of horrible crap like that it didn't [TS]

  look around [TS]

  how many websites do you see that are [TS]

  really in great shape these days that [TS]

  have a staff of more than like two [TS]

  people it's it's really hard to find any [TS]

  at all the more reason that like the [TS]

  well-known sites have a leg up because [TS]

  they're like where did everybody go for [TS]

  movie stuff IMDb I mean amazon bought [TS]

  them already so they basically have [TS]

  already been saved by their plans but [TS]

  you know it's not impossible and it [TS]

  isn't if it's going to be more difficult [TS]

  now than it used to be or whatever the [TS]

  ones that have the most advantage are [TS]

  the ones that are already established on [TS]

  your defining categories even slashdot [TS]

  never got this bet or isn't this better [TS]

  now because I'm really still exists we [TS]

  all / trash in the comments a fair point [TS]

  so what about like the sweet home for [TS]

  example that's not just students with [TS]

  terrible ads all over the place now to [TS]

  be fair they are [TS]

  they appear to be pretty reliant on [TS]

  affiliate amazon affiliate money and go [TS]

  straight is reporting what looks at a [TS]

  glance to be 20 different trackers [TS]

  interviews on the Site yeah and I mean [TS]

  it is basically a shopping site so it's [TS]

  different like what if you're shopping [TS]

  site you can make money off of affiliate [TS]

  stuff we offer the prophet of things [TS]

  you're directly selling it's very [TS]

  different for you know something like [TS]

  snowshoes like a very basic content site [TS]

  you know you make money off of page [TS]

  views period and it is really hard to [TS]

  get anything good there these days [TS]

  especially when you are both big and [TS]

  untargeted likes notices snap should be [TS]

  no different than wikipedia though [TS]

  because anything wikipedia [TS]

  general-purpose there's no confined [TS]

  audience it's extremely broad it's a [TS]

  simple side that just contains text and [TS]

  a wikipedia not vested with that or [TS]

  viruses wikipedia also you know first of [TS]

  all it is donation funded by up what [TS]

  seems like a pretty large amount of [TS]

  people and even then they still put the [TS]

  giant jimmy wales head on top of the wp [TS]

  a-- in what seems like a very increasing [TS]

  frequency but that also i'm pretty sure [TS]

  that they have a pretty small staff of [TS]

  actually paid people and I are they [TS]

  probably went on profit right how many [TS]

  people do you think stopes needs I don't [TS]

  think it needs a gigantic staff of [TS]

  people and they could they could [TS]

  leverage volunteers wide this this is [TS]

  not a site where people have to file [TS]

  seven stories a day I was like a gaming [TS]

  site or something they're much harder [TS]

  categories then snopes it just feels [TS]

  like a shame that slope is exactly one [TS]

  of those sites that because it's mostly [TS]

  purely text and it's simple site and it [TS]

  shouldn't require a giant staff and [TS]

  they're not you know the reviewing cars [TS]

  are sending people to trade shows or [TS]

  doing anything else that cost a lot of [TS]

  money upfront it you know it's just a [TS]

  shame that it is like and and because [TS]

  it's so popular people still like this [TS]

  notes i wish i had been replaced by like [TS]

  a stack overflow vs kaur equivalent [TS]

  where the crappy psyche and replaced by [TS]

  the better one but instead we all just [TS]

  go to slopes and just every time we do [TS]

  it gets worse when you know it's also [TS]

  possible you know it we don't we don't [TS]

  know that the snopes owner who own snow [TS]

  is it some big companies just kind of [TS]

  don't think the maggots on Snopes now [TS]

  you ever feel like you know they could [TS]

  just be really tired of running it and [TS]

  just maximizing profit for a while to [TS]

  that is also a possibility here [TS]

  I I think it's more likely that they are [TS]

  a at least partially victim of the [TS]

  problems that all web publishers face [TS]

  these days with trying to get any money [TS]

  out of ads in an age where almost [TS]

  everybody browsers on phones almost all [TS]

  traffic comes from facebook and almost [TS]

  nobody click on ads on phones by the way [TS]

  you have to make money other creepy ways [TS]

  and also the ads that you're selling are [TS]

  being sold by decreasing the few brokers [TS]

  with decreasing prices [TS]

  fair enough alright and to bring this [TS]

  back to pokemon you really nothing today [TS]

  but hey that's this is the rules you got [TS]

  to get through the follow up before we [TS]

  move on he wrote in to say my friend was [TS]

  very excited to play pokemon go with her [TS]

  seven-year-old son she excitedly [TS]

  installed it and said let's go out play [TS]

  but he was quick with his rebuttal [TS]

  no mom pokemon is for old people say at [TS]

  times just like that were all old all [TS]

  over again [TS]

  it's kind of true like you look outside [TS]

  there was a couple stories about this [TS]

  but a nintendo targeting people and in [TS]

  generational waves like you played [TS]

  pokemon as a kid now you're ready to [TS]

  play it on your smartphone because the [TS]

  same situation with my family realized [TS]

  that if your kid doesn't have a [TS]

  smartphone it's very difficult to play [TS]

  pokemon go without at least one person [TS]

  with a smartphone you can tell the tubes [TS]

  you do have to be on the move with [TS]

  internet access at the same time and [TS]

  seven-year-olds don't have a device a [TS]

  portable device with internet access [TS]

  that they can walk around the [TS]

  neighborhood with they would have to go [TS]

  i'm going to be going with a parent [TS]

  anyway but like when I look what I see [TS]

  all those pictures look at all these [TS]

  people they're all playing pokemon go i [TS]

  don't see fifty percent kids I don't [TS]

  even see 25 percent kids they see maybe [TS]

  like five percent kids in ninety-five [TS]

  percent young adults and adults so it is [TS]

  a game for all people i don't know cares [TS]

  only about money right but i will say [TS]

  although if they're finally nintendo is [TS]

  making public statements trying to [TS]

  deflate his home stock right now like [TS]

  you realize we don't make that much [TS]

  money from this like we get a license [TS]

  fee and the actual money goes another [TS]

  company like it's great that you double [TS]

  the stock price but perhaps you don't [TS]

  understand how this works we're not [TS]

  getting as rich as you think we are [TS]

  delightful [TS]

  alright any other follow-up for every 48 [TS]

  hours later no actually we we did get [TS]

  one really nice note from person in kap [TS]

  kap said hi [TS]

  one thing that's great about Apple not [TS]

  updating the mac for ages there's never [TS]

  been a better time to buy a mac second [TS]

  hand if you want to manage to pick up [TS]

  2011 imac with a SSD installed for an [TS]

  absolute bargain added a bunch USB 3 [TS]

  ports for Thunderbolt dongle and [TS]

  couldn't be happier [TS]

  it doesn't just this means this machine [TS]

  was ridiculously cheap I wouldn't feel [TS]

  like I'm missing out on anything besides [TS]

  right now by not getting a new mac and [TS]

  this is I think this is a really good [TS]

  point because like when you see that the [TS]

  entire lineup inserted in certain [TS]

  families about the whole Mac lineup has [TS]

  not changed that much in like 3 years [TS]

  that means you can buy a three year old [TS]

  Mac and it's still pretty competitive [TS]

  with the with the brand new ones that [TS]

  are coming out today and you know that [TS]

  it's a mixed bag [TS]

  obviously we'd like things to be getting [TS]

  better over a period of three years in [TS]

  the computer industry but as long as [TS]

  they're getting better so slowly or not [TS]

  at all then you know like you could pick [TS]

  up like a three-year-old mac pro that's [TS]

  almost out of warranty now for probably [TS]

  a decent price and it's still the same [TS]

  machine being sold new you know more [TS]

  more realistically you know you most [TS]

  people would be doing that most people [TS]

  can get this get similarly great deals [TS]

  on like a macbook pro you can get the [TS]

  first generation retina macbook pro is [TS]

  from 2012's now four years old and it's [TS]

  not that different from the ones they're [TS]

  selling brand new still today like it [TS]

  isn't that much slower you know you [TS]

  might you might have to replace the [TS]

  battery if it's worn out but these you [TS]

  know the poly batteries don't work don't [TS]

  wear out that quickly so like you can [TS]

  really get amazing deals on like three [TS]

  to five year old Max now that are almost [TS]

  as good as the ones they are still [TS]

  selling brand new today I have trouble [TS]

  bending my mind in such a way that this [TS]

  is actually a good thing like i know [TS]

  some people can you know is it like I'm [TS]

  not missing out as its not much for [TS]

  someone you could buy new but it is [TS]

  still a really old and really slow [TS]

  computer just so happens that you can [TS]

  even buy one is that much better but it [TS]

  doesn't change like an absolute values [TS]

  the state of Metal Machine and also it [TS]

  may not change like Apple sort of [TS]

  deprecation window like a like mind [TS]

  pro and a bunch of machines don't have [TS]

  support for mac OS ER and stuff i'm not [TS]

  sure that window Apple sort of sliding [TS]

  window of dropping old hardware support [TS]

  for os's takes into account the fact [TS]

  that Apple is not making their computers [TS]

  much better so I think that window moves [TS]

  along whether Apple releases new max or [TS]

  not which is kind of said and really [TS]

  you're right it's not there not that [TS]

  much worse than the current ones in some [TS]

  cases you can find a machine that's it [TS]

  that's a couple years old that has some [TS]

  attributes that are actually a little [TS]

  bit better than the current machines but [TS]

  all you're doing is putting yourself [TS]

  even farther back so that when the new [TS]

  max and i really do come back like that [TS]

  gap will suddenly want because we all [TS]

  presume apple will continue to produce [TS]

  Macintosh's in the future at some point [TS]

  and when they come out suddenly that you [TS]

  know the the feeling that you have it's [TS]

  like oh this is such a bargain such a [TS]

  good deal because the gap between you [TS]

  and the best available is small the gap [TS]

  between you and the best available is [TS]

  about to take a giant leap and that's [TS]

  not gonna feel too good so I yeah it i [TS]

  can see whether this person is coming [TS]

  from but my to my mind my personality I [TS]

  think it's even worse to buy used one [TS]

  now it's kind of like if Apple was [TS]

  rapidly advancing you could get a used [TS]

  one that is better in terms of absolute [TS]

  value just because they're going forward [TS]

  so quickly that you don't but everything [TS]

  but like I I think it's better [TS]

  all-around maybe i'm just sad about this [TS]

  well I mean I suppose you could look at [TS]

  the the most horrible way which is if [TS]

  you buy a brand-new machine from apple [TS]

  today you're basically buying a 30 pitch [TS]

  in at four brand-new fries i'm saying [TS]

  like saving like save your money and [TS]

  rather don't buy you don't buy new one [TS]

  don't buy used one just keep putting [TS]

  money into your little buy a mac later [TS]

  fund so that when they do come out with [TS]

  new ones you can get a fancier sure but [TS]

  if you if you need a mac now and u14 [TS]

  like I don't know [TS]

  700 bucks like what do you really and [TS]

  especially if the mac mini is not going [TS]

  to suit your needs which at seven or [TS]

  seventy bucks it almost certainly won't [TS]

  and even if even with infinite money it [TS]

  might not if you really want a laptop [TS]

  which almost everybody does these days [TS]

  you know it if you have that kind of [TS]

  budget and [TS]

  you know a good macbook or macbook pros [TS]

  gonna cost you nearly two thousand [TS]

  dollars you know once its options [TS]

  reasonably then that's a pretty good [TS]

  option to you know get a three-year-old [TS]

  14 you know basically you know get [TS]

  today's mac for what it's actually worth [TS]

  today which is a three-year-old was [TS]

  surprised if I had a business and I [TS]

  absolutely had to buy was like new [TS]

  employees becoming a bar and we didn't [TS]

  have computers to them i might buy you [TS]

  the cheapest use when I could possibly [TS]

  get with the idea that i will buy a new [TS]

  one also like as soon as they come out [TS]

  because that that is probably like [TS]

  what's the least amount of money we can [TS]

  spend now to get a computer on your desk [TS]

  that you can use while we wait for the [TS]

  new mexico out knowing that as soon as [TS]

  they do we are going to resell those [TS]

  used ones and get a new one for you that [TS]

  makes sense to me [TS]

  I mean you could you could probably get [TS]

  a used 101 for the same price it will [TS]

  cost to upgrade the new one to one [TS]

  terabyte don't remind me [TS]

  we are sponsored this week by trunk club [TS]

  premium clothes expert advice no work [TS]

  thanks to your own personal stylist at [TS]

  trunk club got a trunk club com / ATP to [TS]

  get started shopping takes forever and [TS]

  nobody has time for it now it's summer [TS]

  see probably to solve pair of shorts and [TS]

  some swimwear for all your offshore [TS]

  activities and be nice to have somebody [TS]

  else pick out all these things for you [TS]

  with trunk club you never have to set [TS]

  foot in a store and get your very own [TS]

  stylist friend again this is not like a [TS]

  bot stylist this is not like a little [TS]

  window on a website that you type into [TS]

  and you kind of wonder is that even [TS]

  humanly the slider is a bot this is an [TS]

  actual human that they contact you and [TS]

  you know you get assigned at one person [TS]

  and that they're real [TS]

  they really exist they're real person [TS]

  you know their name they know your name [TS]

  you send them your measurements and [TS]

  everything and they and you said you [TS]

  telling your preferences what kind of [TS]

  stuff you like because if you don't and [TS]

  they make it easy to look your best [TS]

  by sending your clothes that will fit [TS]

  you perfectly they hand-picked them the [TS]

  stylist and fix them for you but you [TS]

  know they have your measurement and [TS]

  everything else they pick clothes from [TS]

  over a top brands and ship them right to [TS]

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  will you request from them a shipment of [TS]

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  them send it to you once once a month [TS]

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  isn't like a subscription we're just [TS]

  paying every month no matter what you [TS]

  use you you you tell them when you want [TS]

  them to send you a trunk full of clothes [TS]

  and they will send it to you and then [TS]

  you can try things on for up to 10 days [TS]

  in your home and then you just keep what [TS]

  you want to keep and they charge you for [TS]

  that and you send back anything you [TS]

  don't want [TS]

  so it's totally risk-free this is [TS]

  premium clothing being sent to you by a [TS]

  real personal stylist with your [TS]

  measurements and preferences in mind [TS]

  this is not just another way to another [TS]

  way to shop online because this is all [TS]

  human trip and a risk-free they send you [TS]

  stuff right to your door you try it on [TS]

  you keep what you like you send back the [TS]

  rest and you only pay for what you keep [TS]

  so make a statement today at the next [TS]

  big event on your kid doesn't make sense [TS]

  make a statement at the next big event [TS]

  in your calendar will look at handpick [TS]

  just for you and your style get started [TS]

  a trunk club today premium clothes [TS]

  expert advice no work thanks to your [TS]

  very own personal stylist at trunk club [TS]

  go to trunk club com / ATP that's trunk [TS]

  club com / ATP thanks a lot i talked a [TS]

  lot about this on a recent episode of [TS]

  reconcile the differences that I think [TS]

  it's not out yet so I don't really have [TS]

  that much to reach read about it here [TS]

  although honestly I'm not sure how much [TS]

  overlap there is no dancing those two [TS]

  shows so may be able to sell the same [TS]

  things again in true Marco fashion he [TS]

  says he doesn't have anything to say [TS]

  about a topic menu says everything over [TS]

  again [TS]

  um so this topic is twitter twitter [TS]

  little verified checkmark the [TS]

  historically people have had if you're a [TS]

  super important celebrity and people [TS]

  want to know like is the real Sheryl [TS]

  Crow and you look at their little [TS]

  twitter profile and it shows a little [TS]

  check mark you're like oh it must be the [TS]

  real one and not the million parody [TS]

  impersonation accounts or whatever of [TS]

  which there are many how to Julian [TS]

  Sheryl Crow is your example example I [TS]

  don't know I was trying to think of a [TS]

  celebrity I could the kids know these [TS]

  days and shuttlecock sheryl crow the [TS]

  most recent celebrity come up with Free [TS]

  Association now it's not the most recent [TS]

  but like I mean I guess I could've gone [TS]

  with taylor swift I mean I don't know [TS]

  what you anyway that's what the check [TS]

  mark has been for historically and I [TS]

  think we've talked about this topic [TS]

  before how it would be much better if [TS]

  that kind of attestation where twitter [TS]

  says yes we are telling you that this is [TS]

  actually the person you think it is if [TS]

  that was available too many more people [TS]

  because it's not just celebrities that [TS]

  suffering from counts that I've [TS]

  impersonate them and otherwise make [TS]

  their lives miserable by people [TS]

  mistaking them for somebody else just [TS]

  like different unicode characters are [TS]

  capitalized instead of an L or like [TS]

  whatever I mean I don't understand that [TS]

  much because you can just right click on [TS]

  your web browser and take a screenshot [TS]

  much easier than making a fake Twitter [TS]

  account but anyway the second aspect of [TS]

  this is because because historically [TS]

  been celebrities that get that check [TS]

  mark [TS]

  twitter has rolled out a series of like [TS]

  different views and tools and filters [TS]

  and features in their official client [TS]

  that are only available to people who [TS]

  are verified with the idea being they [TS]

  have so many followers and have so many [TS]

  replies to go through they need extra [TS]

  tools to deal with their stuff and again [TS]

  a lot of people who deal with harassment [TS]

  and other problems on Twitter could also [TS]

  use those tools but oh they're not [TS]

  important enough to get verified and so [TS]

  I think our last conversation about this [TS]

  but I was saying and so we're giving you [TS]

  two were green like verification should [TS]

  be available to everybody and we [TS]

  understand that it takes time and [TS]

  possibly money to verify because they [TS]

  have a look at your gonna need like a [TS]

  state ID or they basically need to check [TS]

  that you really are you and that takes [TS]

  time and human being has to do it in [TS]

  that costs money but we like just charge [TS]

  a fee for it if it costs you money we're [TS]

  not saying where you have to give us [TS]

  away for four free charging nominal fee [TS]

  because pretty much everybody i know who [TS]

  desperately wants to be verified for [TS]

  actual for a purpose you know to to get [TS]

  the tools to deal with harassment or to [TS]

  make sure that they're not impersonated [TS]

  would gladly pay a nominal fee to I mean [TS]

  they'll throw the money at you in two [TS]

  seconds to get the little check market [TS]

  says yes I really am my is limited [TS]

  celebrities why not open to everybody so [TS]

  in theory recently [TS]

  twitter has changed its rules in the [TS]

  light of the whole Ghostbusters abuse [TS]

  thing and all you know one of the stars [TS]

  Ghostbusters got it chased off twitter [TS]

  by a bunch of terrible people i don't [TS]

  know if that was the impetus behind this [TS]

  move but it you know timing was it looks [TS]

  like it [TS]

  twitter verification is now open to [TS]

  anybody who wants to fill out an [TS]

  application on towards web [TS]

  site you told a bunch of field you try [TS]

  to tell them why you think you should be [TS]

  verified if you're a brand or a company [TS]

  you can check checkbox for that if your [TS]

  individual you tell them like here's all [TS]

  the places where you can see why i am [TS]

  here's why should be verified and then [TS]

  it goes to a big black hole in theory [TS]

  they come back and say yes your verified [TS]

  or no you're not and this comes up [TS]

  specifically as it relates to the show [TS]

  because Marc Marquez verify for a long [TS]

  time whether you were verified like the [TS]

  very beginning this is why would I i got [TS]

  verified like three weeks ago course [TS]

  it's it was really recently I thought [TS]

  you've been verified for a long time no [TS]

  I i started ranting about it there is [TS]

  some well it was when the most app [TS]

  engage with that they launched a couple [TS]

  weeks ago with my son of AI like the [TS]

  celebrity only yeah and see what people [TS]

  are saying about your tweets or whatever [TS]

  like he go surfing yeah i mean if [TS]

  anybody could use it but yeah I mean I [TS]

  actually use it for a few for a few days [TS]

  on my phone and kind of try out but when [TS]

  that launched i was i was basically [TS]

  ranting about how like you know this app [TS]

  gave special privileges to verified [TS]

  people in the in the way that like not [TS]

  not as the very people using the app but [TS]

  if you were verified you your tweets [TS]

  would show up in these filter views [TS]

  higher than non verified people and I [TS]

  was just like yet one more thing that [TS]

  was because the verified system has you [TS]

  know having assessment this has lots of [TS]

  problems and inequalities that inherent [TS]

  in it you know it's one thing if it's [TS]

  only for identity verification but once [TS]

  you add any other like bonus features or [TS]

  higher statuses once you attach those to [TS]

  verified status it makes this program [TS]

  something that should be available to [TS]

  everybody because then it's like well [TS]

  you know if verified people get their [TS]

  tweets seen more in certain filters are [TS]

  going higher priority things are get [TS]

  certain abuse control filters that that [TS]

  other people don't get I mean everybody [TS]

  should be able to be verified that [TS]

  because then that's that it's a feature [TS]

  segment not like a status thing and anti [TS]

  status to also like abuse control [TS]

  features and relevancy insert stuff is [TS]

  that's kind of its kind of icky you know [TS]

  so I was ranting raving about that and a [TS]

  nice person who worked twitter submitted [TS]

  me [TS]

  but it seems like that's been open to [TS]

  the public now that's great sort of it's [TS]

  great in that ok will now a lot more [TS]

  people can get verified but it still is [TS]

  subject to some kind of like importance [TS]

  judgment on undecided who was reviewing [TS]

  these forms because we know like for [TS]

  example a federal poverty she got [TS]

  rejected which is insane by the way it [TS]

  completely a person who at it is like he [TS]

  has his own website that popular [TS]

  websites around for years [TS]

  yes like I said a pillar of the [TS]

  community but it's not an obscure place [TS]

  he's not an obscure person and he's not [TS]

  even like just like a random person who [TS]

  happens to have a blog like this is [TS]

  years and years of working in like if he [TS]

  doesn't I he should be verified under [TS]

  the the old password toting around all [TS]

  the websites that like all the tax act [TS]

  or whatever and say hey here you go [TS]

  anybody who works your website can get a [TS]

  check mark didn't get one then and the [TS]

  fact that rejecting out makes no sense [TS]

  exactly because like for you know they [TS]

  they always a you know that they had a [TS]

  lot of rules shifts over time of what [TS]

  kind of people would get verified [TS]

  initially when i first started it was [TS]

  basically like people who had the most [TS]

  followers on Twitter and kind of work [TS]

  their way down the following account [TS]

  until they got just above my number of [TS]

  followers they stopped and they say and [TS]

  then it was ok well now we're gonna do [TS]

  like you know public figures like [TS]

  celebrities put politicians and people [TS]

  who work for the media and that was kind [TS]

  of loosely defined the media it always [TS]

  meant whatever kind of media I didn't do [TS]

  so it was you know not just bloggers and [TS]

  not podcasters and not app developers [TS]

  but if you work for like a journalism [TS]

  thing whatever however they find that it [TS]

  was it [TS]

  these definitions we shifted and we're [TS]

  very vague and really very much based on [TS]

  like does some handful of people at [TS]

  Twitter think you're important this [TS]

  month and it was it was weird it was [TS]

  like if you worked for you know if if [TS]

  they declared a certain website of [TS]

  publication to be like a verified [TS]

  publication anybody who worked for them [TS]

  would get verified like this big batch [TS]

  that they would do and so like you you'd [TS]

  have people who like wrote one article [TS]

  44 like a paper somewhere [TS]

  I'd like 400 followers and they verified [TS]

  and then you have people of like 50,000 [TS]

  followers who can't get verified it just [TS]

  it was always a weird system and it's [TS]

  always been this kind of like vaguely [TS]

  defined very like cumin judgy kind of [TS]

  clarification like I I feel like one of [TS]

  our friends reached out about a year ago [TS]

  to see to try to get the three of us [TS]

  verified and they told because you know [TS]

  he knew a guy who knew a guy and the [TS]

  response was we don't consider [TS]

  podcasters to be media personalities at [TS]

  this time and youtubers were getting it [TS]

  the podcasters more it's just like it's [TS]

  always been this weird system and its [TS]

  it's always gonna rub me the wrong way [TS]

  that's why i started complaining and [TS]

  eventually I complain enough like I [TS]

  verified and I made a joke when I got [TS]

  verified that you know now that i got it [TS]

  in like three weeks they're going to [TS]

  just end the program and they didn't [TS]

  instead it was open to everybody looks [TS]

  like it's been well i got like that so [TS]

  your complaint was originally hey it's [TS]

  like you said it's a stupid tie features [TS]

  and things that a lot of people could [TS]

  use to this whole vague status thing [TS]

  right exactly and i'm not saying that [TS]

  whoever was to help you speaks for all [TS]

  twitter but what happened was not [TS]

  hey you know marker you have a point we [TS]

  should change the way we do things [TS]

  instead it was hey you know Marco if we [TS]

  give you a check mark will you shut up [TS]

  like I'm not yet another thing that yes [TS]

  that was the intent or whatever but like [TS]

  it adversely the person who did this [TS]

  view is not empowered to change [TS]

  Twitter's policy right so they can't [TS]

  like it's not a CEO that did this for [TS]

  you i'm assuming right so they just [TS]

  tried to do the nice thing that could [TS]

  make you feel better which is a good [TS]

  customer service move and it's like I [TS]

  can actually solve your problem but how [TS]

  about if i do this is to make you feel [TS]

  better and like you know what kind of [TS]

  does make me feel a little better but I [TS]

  didn't do anything to it to solve the [TS]

  actual problem because the person who [TS]

  cared about this was obviously not the [TS]

  CEO or anyone in a position to solve the [TS]

  problem and as for that the media things [TS]

  to to reinforce your point that anybody [TS]

  vaguely associated with anything to get [TS]

  one when the Twitter checkmark fairy [TS]

  came to Ars Technica is offered to [TS]

  everybody including to me and i am one [TS]

  of those people who writes like one [TS]

  article year I didn't 400 followers but [TS]

  you know I was not a my contribution [TS]

  star tecnica though they may have been [TS]

  large in size where [TS]

  few in number and i was offered to check [TS]

  mark and I didn't take it because part [TS]

  of the conditions were you would be [TS]

  getting a check mark as part of our [TS]

  technique as you have to use your are [TS]

  technically email to be associated with [TS]

  it and I didn't want to check mark [TS]

  Esparza a because I didn't feel like I [TS]

  was part of ours like I was a freelancer [TS]

  i'm not i don't have any sort of you [TS]

  know stake in the company i'm not even a [TS]

  full-time employee and never have been [TS]

  right and be I didn't want to check mark [TS]

  as part of our tecnica I because I'm a [TS]

  giant ego maniac or whatever want to be [TS]

  recognized for myself and if you don't [TS]

  want to recognize give me a check mark [TS]

  for being me than fine i don't want one [TS]

  like I don't want to be an architect his [TS]

  coattails or whatever so for multiple [TS]

  reasons I turned that one down and I [TS]

  figured Mike look around you know it [TS]

  never gonna check mark and we're going [TS]

  to check mark right but this whole thing [TS]

  of like whatever I've always you can [TS]

  find a press release or whatever was [TS]

  opening it up to everybody the [TS]

  application process may be open to [TS]

  everybody but as the TV shows [TS]

  it's not as if they opened up the check [TS]

  marked everybody not only did they not [TS]

  open it up to everybody but their [TS]

  definition doesn't make any sense [TS]

  because it's maybe it's a slightly [TS]

  broader definition but if the teacher [TS]

  doesn't fit under the definition then I [TS]

  should get a check mark either and I [TS]

  don't like that because i want to check [TS]

  mark that's what this time because [TS]

  beyond all reason I want to stupid [TS]

  checkmark and as I whined about at [TS]

  length on reconcile the differences i [TS]

  don't need to check mark like the people [TS]

  who actually needed people who are [TS]

  actually the targets of harassment who [TS]

  need these tools people who have huge [TS]

  number of accounts impersonating them [TS]

  because I mean Brad Brianna was that the [TS]

  poster child for this like the fact that [TS]

  she doesn't have a checkmark makes no [TS]

  sense she's constantly in touch with [TS]

  twitter sending them hundreds of reports [TS]

  getting accounts banned and no one [TS]

  received the receiving end of this flood [TS]

  of like reports reviews of Tears goes [TS]

  you know it might help this person maybe [TS]

  we should make her verified and she has [TS]

  a huge number of followers to like every [TS]

  criteria you possibly think of like for [TS]

  someone who's like not a publication or [TS]

  whatever that doesn't make any sense [TS]

  so I'm frustrated with these strange [TS]

  rules i'm frustrated that even under the [TS]

  strange rules i still don't have one and [TS]

  yes i did apply applied on wednesday i [TS]

  had to fill in a bio which I never [TS]

  filled out on Twitter intentionally [TS]

  again was not [TS]

  10 minutes of whining about this and [TS]

  resolve differences it's impossible to [TS]

  write a bio that doesn't sound god-awful [TS]

  so i just got off a vile you look at [TS] / syracuse right now you'll [TS]

  see my god awful bio i had to put a [TS]

  birthday i already had header image i [TS]

  will end when either the application i [TS]

  was worried that they would get yelled [TS]

  at for my header image my header image [TS]

  is a picture from the video game journey [TS]

  which I love and everyone should play [TS]

  and no one should get be spoiled about [TS]

  and it's like a-a-a-a wallpaper that you [TS]

  could download from sony's website but [TS]

  technically contains like copyrighted [TS]

  images or whatever like maybe go to the [TS]

  sony sites like hey you're just in [TS]

  journey come here and here are [TS]

  wallpapers and that's one of the [TS]

  wallpaper so I assume it's free for me [TS]

  to take and put as my header image i [TS]

  don't even know anyway I filled it out i [TS]

  have not heard back from everyone else's [TS]

  today I entered this thing into the [TS]

  application and I heard back and I'm [TS]

  verified and i have a check mark all [TS]

  sorts check marks at blue checkmark [TS]

  sprouting everywhere and honestly I [TS]

  shouldn't care all i should care about [TS]

  is that the people who actually need [TS]

  check marks at them and by the way those [TS]

  people still aren't getting them which I [TS]

  don't understand but anyway you need one [TS]

  John you need one [TS]

  yeah i'm not getting one either this is [TS]

  like the good version of a Wikipedia [TS]

  page because everyone thinks they want a [TS]

  Wikipedia page but anyone's heard me [TS]

  talk about what he knows i have many [TS]

  problems wikipedia i don't want to [TS]

  wikipedia page is the curse more than a [TS]

  blessing but but a checkmark it's [TS]

  basically only upside and no real [TS]

  downside and I I don't have them [TS]

  let me tell you why you want one because [TS]

  like you know why I want one you notice [TS]

  or legal maniacs first of all [TS]

  yep but like you can look at it from [TS]

  like the original purpose of verified [TS]

  and it's kind of like the lock icon on [TS]

  SL site you know I get a lock on your [TS]

  address bar [TS]

  first of all you can quit there is worth [TS]

  question like is that even effective [TS]

  because we know that we know very much [TS]

  that the lock icon address bars has [TS]

  never been very effective because nobody [TS]

  goes to check it and all the web [TS]

  browsers keep updating their designs to [TS]

  more and more emphasized the security [TS]

  level of the site that you're on or to [TS]

  put up even crazier and scarier warnings [TS]

  if something is not quite right and yet [TS]

  people still get fished all times [TS]

  and still into their stuff and insecure [TS]

  forms and everything so we know that [TS]

  that kind of warning doesn't really work [TS]

  for the most part for most people [TS]

  because most people just don't think to [TS]

  check that kind of thing or they don't [TS]

  know to check the kind of thing and even [TS]

  if they know they sometimes forget and [TS]

  just miss it [TS]

  whether its original purpose is kind of [TS]

  its not that relevant because the [TS]

  original purpose is not a very strong [TS]

  purpose what it really is is jewelry it [TS]

  is it is a surprise it is it is a assign [TS]

  awarded to you that says I am important [TS]

  and because it is emphasized everywhere [TS]

  you're seeing those big blue checkmarks [TS]

  always important people in your timeline [TS]

  so it is very much a status symbol and [TS]

  whether whether you need or want the [TS]

  additional filtering features it brings [TS]

  you want to be a special person and [TS]

  honestly when I got it I have almost [TS]

  felt like a responsibility has been [TS]

  granted to me and I have to like to eat [TS]

  more responsibly now it's weird like [TS]

  it's a right [TS]

  how does one go about 20 more [TS]

  responsibly when you're not winning that [TS]

  previously you would have to eat it it's [TS]

  it's like getting like a like a BS title [TS]

  at work to try to like make you more [TS]

  responsible like it's totally worked on [TS]

  meet you there like I'm like well you [TS]

  know I'm like representing the blue [TS]

  checkmark now I I better you know you [TS]

  know that it is like how like contract [TS]

  supposed to like you know drinking bars [TS]

  in their uniforms and I kind of feel [TS]

  like you know I i got like you know be [TS]

  good for this checkmark and Beyond but [TS]

  beyond better behavior now because it [TS]

  because you can't say that it's not [TS]

  really Marco but not that really me [TS]

  that's an impersonator know it just kind [TS]

  of feels like I've been blessed with [TS]

  this honor that I have to like treat [TS]

  well I don't know it's it does it's not [TS]

  rational but that's how it feels [TS]

  well for what it's worth the there's an [TS]

  account which is at verified is that the [TS]

  this is an account on Twitter that from [TS]

  what i can tell follows every verified [TS]

  account and it follows a hundred ninety [TS]

  thousand fourteen accounts as we record [TS]

  one of those accounts ladies and [TS]

  gentlemen is this guy because guess who [TS]

  got his blue checkmark a couple days ago [TS]

  i did in man John does it feel good [TS]

  oh I'm sorry yeah it's okay it's not bad [TS]

  but the thing that burns me up so much [TS]

  about your check mark that you've got to [TS]

  six hours after filling out the app [TS]

  patient like you fill out the [TS]

  application not too long before i did [TS]

  like basically I didn't fill it out [TS]

  because i was too busy podcasting with [TS]

  Marlon while trying to fill it out which [TS]

  is why we ended up talking about it and [TS]

  so when the show is over i filled it out [TS]

  you feel that you said what six hours [TS]

  later you got your check mark [TS]

  yeah it was a little after noon on [TS]

  whatever day it was announced and it was [TS]

  just before I recorded the latest [TS]

  episode of analog that i received it and [TS]

  so we actually talked my can I talk [TS]

  about this on analog as well but yeah it [TS]

  was somewhere around six or seven hours [TS]

  it's like it's showing up to likes a [TS]

  really popular event just after the [TS]

  whole crowd gets there like there's a [TS]

  line of five people can you wait 15 [TS]

  minutes there's a line of 3,000 people [TS]

  so now I'm somewhere back in EQI just [TS]

  assume i'm going to get rejected because [TS]

  that would fit perfectly with the [TS]

  completely arbitrary pattern of like not [TS]

  giving the g1 rejecting the TG and just [TS]

  never responding to Brianna like it fits [TS]

  perfectly with with the the whole notion [TS]

  that is just like a hamster in a wheel [TS]

  over there some kind of random number [TS]

  generator and no actual human with any [TS]

  kind of judgment is doing this because [TS]

  honestly if there was anybody with any [TS]

  kind of judgment doing this like not [TS]

  giving verified checkmarks immediately [TS]

  every single target of gamergate like I [TS]

  don't understand the meeting where you [TS]

  would like to we didn't think about this [TS]

  and should get the check now that's just [TS]

  not ever do it for like a year [TS]

  that sounds good guys ok good let's [TS]

  break for lunch like I don't understand [TS]

  the logic don't understand that collect [TS]

  I don't understand [TS]

  and how can it be staff to such a degree [TS]

  that Casey's wait time is six hours and [TS]

  that they they gave him a thumbs up and [TS]

  yet all these other people don't get the [TS]

  idea it doesn't make sense to me anyway [TS]

  I totally recognize that this entire [TS]

  topic of conversation is obnoxious and [TS]

  that I shouldn't care what do you care [TS]

  because they made us care they [TS]

  manipulated listen to caring for these [TS]

  blue checkmark yeah there are some with [TS]

  some legit reasons that did that at a [TS]

  regular person would want this like [TS]

  people who don't need it like me like [TS]

  that because you get you get more [TS]

  features that make Twitter nicer to use [TS]

  and I think you're thinking the lock [TS]

  icon is great just like I want my [TS]

  account to seem trustworthy and two [TS]

  people not to think it's me and I have [TS]

  had a few impersonators have reported in [TS]

  their accounts have gotten close and [TS]

  like whatever [TS]

  it's not i don't have any actual issues [TS]

  but it put it this way if they literally [TS]

  open to everybody with ten bucks i would [TS]

  pay ten bucks in a second [TS]

  oh yeah I mean like I i registered the [TS]

  overcast account for and I I i signed up [TS]

  for I filled out the form roughly the [TS]

  same time you did I think John and I [TS]

  haven't heard back from that either it's [TS]

  still pending but I did it for for [TS]

  basically that reason of like I wanted [TS]

  the overcast twitter account to appear [TS]

  you know official to really make it look [TS]

  like this is a real business for a real [TS]

  app that that matters in the world [TS]

  because it's good enough to get a blue [TS]

  checkmark like I want people to see that [TS]

  that is that it helps look more [TS]

  professional [TS]

  I mean we're gonna do the same thing to [TS]

  the ATP account 880 pfm on twitter i [TS]

  want people to know that's the official [TS]

  account of the show and so check mark [TS]

  would be good to give them the [TS]

  reassurance that they like what was the [TS]

  ATP one is not just add ATP that's a [TS]

  different one and you might not be sure [TS]

  and again like it's a thing I think [TS]

  should be open to everybody as in if you [TS]

  have ten dollars boom you've got a [TS]

  checkmark know like a mechanical process [TS]

  with no humans involved except for the [TS]

  verification part and that's what you're [TS]

  paying your ten dollars for but like the [TS]

  idea of being rejected for verification [TS]

  doesn't make any sense to me [TS]

  yeah yeah it is weird with that said in [TS]

  my what is this like three or four days [TS]

  of living the sweet sweet sweet blue [TS]

  checkmark lifestyle I've only noticed [TS]

  two differences so far did you get your [TS]

  gift bag [TS]

  yeah yeah did you see that special [TS]

  present they gave us oh yeah I'm process [TS]

  so good that was that was awesome anyway [TS]

  so if i look at the tour website on the [TS]

  in the settings area on the left hand [TS]

  side where it begins with account [TS]

  security and privacy blah blah blah blah [TS]

  there's a there's another one which i [TS]

  believe is new [TS]

  that's notifications timeline and I [TS]

  don't recall having seen this before and [TS]

  it says filter tweets by and then [TS]

  there's a checkbox only one of them [TS]

  that's quality filter is quality [TS]

  filtering aims to remove all tweets from [TS]

  your notifications timeline that contain [TS]

  threats offensive or abusive language [TS]

  duplicate content or sent from [TS]

  suspicious accounts i haven't yet turned [TS]

  that on just because I don't feel like I [TS]

  really need to and what kind what kind [TS]

  of people might need that feature i'm [TS]

  having trouble thinking of any examples [TS]

  want that [TS]

  why is this not available to everybody I [TS]

  i got the two accounts open here but it [TS]

  might be available to everybody because [TS]

  like maybe the computational or [TS]

  scalability thing or whatever but then [TS]

  too bad fix that we have computers now [TS]

  computers do these things quickly i'm [TS]

  trying to think of a scenario where is [TS]

  reasonable but even if you're gonna give [TS]

  it to limited set of people who would [TS]

  you give it to who might you give this [TS]

  thing that's limited say you only have [TS]

  you know 500,000 hand out who would you [TS]

  give it to [TS]

  I don't know maybe you would like you [TS]

  said divorce it from there are five and [TS]

  offered to people who are constant [TS]

  target of abuse or no maybe just not do [TS]

  that so yeah so there's that and then it [TS]

  was actually Mike who got verified in a [TS]

  beautiful wonderful turn of events got [TS]

  verified after we recorded analog so I [TS]

  had been an entire episode of analog to [TS]

  lord over him and and make fun of him [TS]

  for not being schools i am which was [TS]

  delightful but anyway he had noticed [TS]

  once he got verified that apparently in [TS]

  the official app there's a notifications [TS]

  tab and there's a new entry in the [TS]

  segmented control there so he sent me a [TS]

  screenshot and what he had was all [TS]

  mentions and I believe he said that the [TS]

  verified one was new so he can look at [TS]

  notifications from everyone noted [TS]

  notifications just in terms of mentions [TS]

  again this is the official app or I [TS]

  guess mentions just from verified people [TS]

  or perhaps any sort of notification that [TS]

  sourced with a verified individual and [TS]

  those the only two differences that I've [TS]

  noticed i don't know Marco if you've [TS]

  noticed anything else [TS]

  well not really just because I don't use [TS]

  the official client or the website very [TS]

  often same here and so most of the stuff [TS]

  only is visible in those places and [TS]

  honestly it might be like you know if I [TS]

  starting a lot of abuse again I know [TS]

  they were there appears in the past [TS]

  where I've gotten here and there is [TS]

  nothing like what people like Brianna [TS]

  cat not in close but you know if that [TS]

  kind of thing became a problem for me i [TS]

  would very much consideration is [TS]

  official apps and again if you're going [TS]

  to make this like a content filter kind [TS]

  of thing and abuse filter kind of thing [TS]

  you want as many people as possible [TS]

  who are legitimate account holders to be [TS]

  verified and if you charge a bit of [TS]

  money to be verified it really does [TS]

  you know it it puts a big barrier [TS]

  in front of any no not necessarily like [TS]

  to the point where nobody can pay but [TS]

  not all people will pay in order to make [TS]

  a bunch of dummy accounts to troll [TS]

  people with or harass people with you [TS]

  know typically you know when you pay for [TS]

  an account you are less likely to be [TS]

  willing to just throw it away and [TS]

  because you lose that money and you know [TS]

  you have to pay again if you want to [TS]

  come back to the service and and like [TS]

  there have been like my my old friend [TS]

  something awful forums back from my [TS]

  early internet days they they have [TS]

  system they were you had to pay i [TS]

  believe it was ten bucks to register an [TS]

  account and it was incredibly effective [TS]

  at keeping out spam and crap and if [TS]

  anybody got banned you know you get if [TS]

  you broke a rule you get banned like [TS]

  yours out ten bucks and if you want to [TS]

  come back you gotta paint of ten bucks [TS]

  and it really did make a big difference [TS]

  in how well that community was run and [TS]

  how little crap there really was there [TS]

  compared to number of people that were [TS]

  there you know that's just mean [TS]

  probably doesn't work for something [TS]

  that's supposed to be as as mass market [TS]

  as twitter which is like AI think that [TS]

  have to come up with a hybrid strategy [TS]

  where they would have to be like we we [TS]

  will give out free checkmarks to [TS]

  everybody who we think deserves them and [TS]

  then we will actually higher or set a [TS]

  policy where deserves make some sense to [TS]

  somebody in the entire universe and then [TS]

  anybody can get if they pay like you [TS]

  need to hire because you don't want it [TS]

  to be like oh you know so few people [TS]

  will pay you don't want to be like only [TS]

  people with this amount of disposable [TS]

  income are allowed to participate in [TS]

  twitter because I think twitter has [TS]

  already established itself is sort of [TS]

  like everybody can be on twitter it's [TS]

  open to everybody it's free but maybe [TS]

  that's not sustainable either but it's [TS]

  kind of a shame to take a service with [TS]

  that broader appeal as opposed to [TS]

  something it's like a community like [TS]

  metafilter are where those forms you [TS]

  were talking about where it's not going [TS]

  to be everybody's gonna be a tiny subset [TS]

  a very small community and and even [TS]

  there's kind of a shame to select only [TS]

  people who can afford to add that money [TS]

  but you're right that it is like [TS]

  incredibly effective to raising the [TS]

  quality because no one wants to keep [TS]

  paying money to to make sock of it [TS]

  puppets because it just it gets [TS]

  expensive and it doesn't feel good i [TS]

  mean i guess the unfortunately at the [TS]

  scale Twitter operates i can imagine [TS]

  people like running Kickstarter's to [TS]

  fund the creation of the sock puppet [TS]

  accounts like in the alternative [TS]

  this record was always the pay thing [TS]

  they were just raised tens of thousands [TS]

  of dollars from horrible people to [TS]

  constantly make it site and you know [TS]

  anyway this is like so many things [TS]

  Twitter does this is weird state where [TS]

  it's not clear what the new rules are [TS]

  it's not clear how long was the last [TS]

  name is Marco said who knows that you're [TS]

  checkmarks tomorrow and and split these [TS]

  features into different things but at [TS]

  least it's some kind of oceanfront and [TS]

  by the way speaking of the checkmark i [TS]

  use a third-party clients i'm an old [TS]

  twitter user I really surprising people [TS]

  use the official client but apparently [TS]

  lots of actual people do anyway [TS]

  and my third party client has an option [TS]

  for whether it wants whether it should [TS]

  show the checkmark overlaid on the [TS]

  little you know avatars for individual [TS]

  accounts and I always have it turned off [TS]

  because I didn't like when I'm going [TS]

  through my time I didn't like the sort [TS]

  of the visual indication that this [TS]

  person was more important than what they [TS]

  had to say was more important [TS]

  I mean if I dig into the account I've [TS]

  ever have questions or is this really [TS]

  the celebrity itap name i can see the [TS]

  checkmark but seeing the check market [TS]

  but also because i actually follow a lot [TS]

  of people who have checkmarks who [TS]

  actually no I don't need to constantly [TS]

  remind that they will have check marks [TS]

  and I felt like it was making me pay [TS]

  less attention to the ones that don't [TS]

  have checkmark so just turn it off on [TS]

  all of them [TS]

  you know pretty quickly after that uh [TS]

  that feature is available several years [TS]

  ago and i would definitely not want to [TS]

  turn it back on that either then you [TS]

  aren't seeing our bling [TS]

  hey I know believe me I know I put it on [TS]

  tomorrow I thought I thought you had 14 [TS]

  years I'd forgotten about that whole [TS]

  little blob thing [TS]

  yeah the funny thing is right after i [TS]

  got mine mark when I were talking [TS]

  privately and we had concluded without a [TS]

  shadow of a doubt collectively that [TS]

  there was zero chance that you would [TS]

  solicit your own checkmark because you [TS]

  are above that and then fast forward [TS]

  like two hours and you said in the [TS]

  release like oh I totally ask them and I [TS]

  can't believe i've got no I've I thought [TS]

  you knew that we discussed before I want [TS]

  to check work forever 10 we knew that [TS]

  you wanted to check mark that wasn't up [TS]

  for grabs but we also thought there [TS]

  would be no chance that you would like [TS]

  apply I wouldn't apply now you have to [TS]

  have to apply once they say it's open to [TS]

  everybody have to apply like it i just [TS]

  choked down writing that stupid biome [TS]

  like kinda do it like even like a little [TS]

  box where they say like tell us why we [TS]

  should verify you i wrote like the most [TS]

  Craven like disgusting [TS]

  here's why I'm an important person thing [TS]

  like I'm just like this is the strongest [TS]

  argument i have here it is [TS]

  I'm not no no being coy no beating [TS]

  around the bush this is it and thank god [TS]

  that's not public [TS]

  hey I don't like I'm what am I gonna do [TS]

  be like all shy and mirrors like well [TS]

  probably shouldn't give it to me i'm not [TS]

  that well-known like no I think I should [TS]

  have it like I maybe I should have taken [TS]

  a couple sentences to say I mean I can't [TS]

  even be honest and say you should not be [TS]

  giving this to me before you give it to [TS]

  every single person has ever been [TS]

  targeted by gamergate like its it but if [TS]

  you start yelling at them telling what [TS]

  they should do also not a good way to [TS]

  get a check mark so anyway they're just [TS]

  not responding to my request anyway so [TS]

  it's been what three days now [TS]

  whatever so and analogue on the episode [TS]

  of analog that will be out by the time [TS]

  this episode is out [TS]

  John John your john mike and i discussed [TS]

  what we had written and it was funny [TS]

  because we took two different approaches [TS]

  lon what we wrote to justify our [TS]

  coolness and i agree with you was it i [TS]

  am not a fan of writing that sort of [TS]

  thing about look at me I'm just so [TS]

  important and let me tell you all the [TS]

  reasons why but what I ended up doing a [TS]

  spaceman name-dropping people that I [TS]

  knew and interact with that are also [TS]

  verified so like that's not a power [TS]

  moved my brother love that Barack Obama [TS]

  one sort of Nomar Armand think so no I [TS]

  mean I'm serious that's what that was [TS]

  the approach i took was you know hey I [TS]

  share a podcast with verified user mark [TS]

  harmon and Jones are yousa hey [TS]

  well the fact is verified that might [TS]

  have that actually actually strengthens [TS]

  it would write that's my point no no [TS]

  that was exactly my point you and I [TS]

  talked about how much on relay which [TS]

  also has jason l verified in cgpgrey [TS]

  verified and and my podcasts are you [TS]

  know by many thousands of people each [TS]

  week and leg approach I mean obviously [TS]

  worked but then again like with this [TS]

  black box we have no idea i worked it [TS]

  could have been because what who the [TS]

  person who was inside to check your box [TS]

  with adp boom Casey less done [TS]

  yeah and my took a different approach [TS]

  she what did he see did I forgotten now [TS]

  but whatever was I spell my name of the [TS]

  y which is much cooler than I don't know [TS]

  what it was that's what it was was he [TS]

  had said he thought to himself what why [TS]

  would they have explained [TS]

  made this available to everyone it must [TS]

  be because there they want people to [TS]

  verify their you know their identity and [TS]

  so Mike was all oh you know I'm really [TS]

  concerned that people that listen to me [TS]

  might not be able to find the real me [TS]

  you know and in playing the whole like [TS]

  parody card and and I'm very poorly [TS]

  paraphrasing what he said Golden Girls [TS]

  on that up so the analog but we took two [TS]

  different approaches and well I gotta [TS]

  tell you my bling looks great how to [TS]

  save yourself Marco but he got his 2 i'm [TS]

  I got it makes perfect to write [TS]

  yep I'm like totally deserves want to [TS]

  like you mean it's no question but like [TS]

  that that's an interesting approach i [TS]

  mean like i said i have had actual [TS]

  impersonators we're using my avatar and [TS]

  using variations on my name with [TS]

  different unicode glyphs and stuff to [TS]

  make a thing like that had happened to [TS]

  me not a lot but it has happened he [TS]

  ended up going with that approach and it [TS]

  working good was it did have real [TS]

  examples it was just speculative and I'm [TS]

  afraid I to go on there i don't recall I [TS]

  feel like he was speculative but I'm not [TS]

  a hundred percent sure about that anyway [TS]

  you have no idea how annoying i'm going [TS]

  to be when i get rejected [TS]

  yeah okay because I'm where do I go from [TS]

  there do I just reapply every six months [TS]

  forever throughout one month [TS]

  yes one month every month I can't I did [TS]

  save the paragraph of text there on the [TS]

  box just so I don't have to think it up [TS]

  against I'll just paste in every month [TS]

  but like what is considered as a certain [TS]

  point I'm just gonna stop I'm not gonna [TS]

  be able to like to muster the just what [TS]

  is the quote from Jerry Maguire and not [TS]

  apply in the world am I asking you guys [TS]

  check your entire quote gonna look it up [TS]

  now have you eaten are you seen that [TS]

  movie [TS]

  yes but forever ago yeah i actually did [TS]

  see it but I saw it like when it was new [TS]

  which was a very long time ago [TS]

  all i know is i love looking at my bling [TS]

  everytime it flies by after I tweet [TS]

  mmm looks good for awhile i i i i [TS]

  actually had trouble recognizing myself [TS]

  on Twitter like if I'd like double click [TS]

  to tweet to like get the the [TS]

  conversation history and like mine would [TS]

  be at the roots i wanted to see like [TS]

  which of my tweets is in response to em [TS]

  I for like the first few days I'll it [TS]

  didn't register visually as me at that [TS]

  like when I see the avatar with [TS]

  checkmark onyx like that's not how I [TS]

  look on Twitter all right here you go [TS]

  this is the scene that you guys don't [TS]

  remember but you should be cut all this [TS]

  what is this for quotable things are you [TS]

  cutting my Jerry Maguire quota go I'm [TS]

  gonna cut like half this topic it's so [TS]

  well you but we don't have much in the [TS]

  other end of it so when you get it you [TS]

  know when you're here [TS]

  this is ben jerry's talking to we're [TS]

  computing during your was playing like [TS]

  the athletes that he represents the [TS]

  sports asian timeout here for you [TS]

  you don't know what it's like to be me [TS]

  out here for you it's an up at dawn [TS]

  pride swallowing siege that I will never [TS]

  fail you tell you about now I blew it i [TS]

  was so close so close anyway up at dawn [TS]

  pride swallowing siege is my think of as [TS]

  a good description of reapplying to get [TS]

  forever and every month because that is [TS]

  a hell of a pride swallowing siege [TS]

  oh wow John I I genuinely feel bad for [TS]

  you and I really want you to get there [TS]

  you shouldn't you no one should feel bad [TS]

  for me for the love of God no one please [TS]

  don't feel bad for the most pathetic [TS]

  thing in the entire did not actually [TS]

  important know we should know better [TS]

  than me you should you should pity me [TS]

  that I care about this at all [TS]

  well I do that too but don't cry for [TS]

  John argentina exactly do you think you [TS]

  know something from Bob culture are you [TS]

  quoting like the Madonna remake no I saw [TS]

  that uh wait which one we came out like [TS]

  the nineties with on investment with [TS]

  Donald okay that's what I saw [TS]

  yes what are its fine at least that's [TS]

  all one of them i mean come on [TS]

  yeah well anyway I'm well I hope you get [TS]

  your check mark in no small part because [TS]

  it will make getting the ATF em check [TS]

  mark that much easier because we can say [TS]

  hey all three about it and it probably [TS]

  won't because apparently the process is [TS]

  random and the teacher doesn't everyone [TS]

  is anyone talking about gamergate I mean [TS]

  this is part of the problem with any of [TS]

  these like human review it you know it's [TS]

  like the app store where like even if [TS]

  you set rules in place and even if the [TS]

  rules don't change which I think for [TS]

  Twitter's verification process those are [TS]

  two big requirements that probably have [TS]

  never been met before but assuming you [TS]

  have no codified rules that don't change [TS]

  much over time you still have a team of [TS]

  humans and forcing them and like you [TS]

  know when when the teachers went through [TS]

  it could it was right after this big [TS]

  rush started it could have been a bunch [TS]

  of people who saw this giant pile behind [TS]

  them and it was right before lunch and [TS]

  they were tired and they were grumpy and [TS]

  they just start saying no no don't like [TS]

  it could be so many things once you have [TS]

  like humans trying to review a whole [TS]

  bunch of stuff [TS]

  subjectively and it's it's just these [TS]

  kind of roof systems will never be [TS]

  consistently enforced as long as there [TS]

  is that subjective component to it [TS]

  that's why this [TS]

  that's why they should remove that and [TS]

  it should just be like do you fit the [TS]

  basic qualifications you know can you [TS]

  prove your identity with like you know [TS]

  government-issued ID that we trust and [TS]

  can you know maybe pay a few bucks for [TS]

  our time since you since you know we're [TS]

  going to the wrong people [TS]

  that's it like that should be all it is [TS]

  and as soon as you put in judgment calls [TS]

  of well ru important enough it's never [TS]

  going to be consistently enforced we're [TS]

  also sponsor tonight by hover when you [TS]

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  recently launched dot store now among [TS]

  all these jokey weird ones that have [TS]

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  you can actually use for a useful [TS]

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  weird or cheaper and like that dot [TS]

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  so Marco we're doing pretty well we're [TS]

  about an hour in and we still have one [TS]

  more topic left and I think we might be [TS]

  able to dodge stupid tivo for one more [TS]

  week so we got to stretch this one a lot [TS]

  i will see we can do so tell me [TS]

  everything that I could ever possibly [TS]

  want to know about serial number [TS]

  tracking and forecast [TS]

  ok now that you've ruined both product [TS]

  names of the things i was gonna make it [TS]

  was that not what it was like in the [TS]

  show notes United was called that right [TS]

  and the other was in the name of the [TS]

  site realignment yeah you he didn't say [TS]

  that you did you know anybody in the [TS]

  show notes and i missed it [TS]

  it's fine doesn't matter oh crap I'm [TS]

  sorry so wherever have you not announced [TS]

  forecast [TS]

  I think I'd convention here and there is [TS]

  also it's in the id3 tags of every mp3 [TS]

  I've made in the last two months so it's [TS]

  it's just sitting right there [TS]

  people have asked me on twitter like hey [TS]

  what's this forecast thing so yeah [TS]

  thinking about to turn do you want to [TS]

  record that we can rerecord no it's mine [TS]

  now you have to explain the goofy [TS]

  origins of the name and in typical Marco [TS]

  naming that I am excellent naming things [TS]

  I don't know what you're talking about [TS]

  actually this is perfect because this [TS]

  will delight even more so please tell me [TS]

  the name about this thing that I just [TS]

  spilled the beans on sure so forecast is [TS]

  my podcast post-production app for the [TS]

  mac it basically is an mp3 encoder as [TS]

  well as a chapter and metadata editor so [TS]

  it allows you to input any audio file [TS]

  wav aiff you know other mp3's whatever [TS]

  else and just edit the metadata on that [TS]

  encoded mp3 is mp3 already uses my [TS]

  parallel version of the lame mp3 encoder [TS]

  like I discussed a few episodes back i [TS]

  did succeed in making that it does work [TS]

  the last episode of the show have been [TS]

  encoded with it and nobody noticed so [TS]

  that's good and also can do things like [TS]

  eight chapters and you might have [TS]

  noticed a recent shows that not only [TS]

  have i been using chapters more in the [TS]

  encode here but also that we've recently [TS]

  gotten here and there have been throwing [TS]

  in some chapter images where you have a [TS]

  special special image for showing up at [TS]

  certain times in certain shows that's [TS]

  not really relevant and this is all [TS]

  being done by this app forecast [TS]

  and the reason i need the forecast is [TS]

  because it's what comes before overcast [TS]

  come on I mean I know you got the three [TS]

  things so it's the connection to the [TS]

  weather so over yes and forecasts you [TS]

  forget the weather [TS]

  yeah but you've also an was the one you [TS]

  just said you got the you can do it [TS]

  before it appears and overcast [TS]

  uh-huh and also this application takes [TS]

  files and prepares them for overcast [TS]

  haha yep and overcast ends in cast which [TS]

  is because it's about podcast so it's [TS]

  all these different that you know all [TS]

  these references in his name forecasts [TS]

  oh and also you're the famous creator of [TS]

  the podcast application instant cast as [TS]

  far as i know that right [TS]

  I yeah that's I you know if people for a [TS]

  while I thought I kind of own like the [TS]

  instant prefix instapaper mhm and then [TS]

  Instagram came out and the game is over [TS]

  because now like everybody just thinks [TS]

  anything instead people people think [TS]

  Instagram so even if i tried to you know [TS]

  an instant cast was a different punch a [TS]

  step by a different person but even if [TS]

  they never existed even if i tried to [TS]

  launch a new podcast app called instant [TS]

  cast people think i was ripping off [TS]

  instagrams name not not playing off my [TS]

  own name of my own products from from [TS]

  you know ten years ago but so anyway so [TS]

  my app is called forecast and its a Mac [TS]

  App although as far as far as I know [TS]

  there's nothing really about it that [TS]

  would make it that would preclude an iOS [TS]

  version the future I really thought that [TS]

  that was warranted but that there's not [TS]

  a whole lot of pockets Russian happen is [TS]

  these days so that the demand is mostly [TS]

  on the computer side and probably most [TS]

  of the max i had to guess between mac [TS]

  and pc so that's what I'm doing a it's [TS]

  you know it's it's a small projects not [TS]

  like a massive thing I've been working [TS]

  on it for a few weeks it's at it's in [TS]

  beta now a very small private beta and I [TS]

  haven't really decided how to how and [TS]

  when to release it and charge for it and [TS]

  talk a little bit about this [TS]

  under-the-radar two weeks ago so willing [TS]

  to that just basically considerations of [TS]

  like whether whether you should even [TS]

  charge money for something like this or [TS]

  whether it's not even worth the hassle [TS]

  of [TS]

  charging money because the charging [TS]

  money brings a certain degree of [TS]

  overhead and and of support burden and [TS]

  things about and and it's only gonna [TS]

  make a small amount of money overall [TS]

  because of you know small volume of [TS]

  sales its kind of questionable like you [TS]

  know whether it's even worth doing you [TS]

  know like you know the the entire run of [TS]

  buckshot III blog you know when I when I [TS]

  was charging for it and I still own [TS]

  buckshot the entire run of it made [TS]

  something like three thousand dollars [TS]

  and $3,000 a lot of money to a lot of [TS]

  people and it was for me at the time as [TS]

  well [TS]

  however it also took a pretty big [TS]

  portion of my summer to do that and [TS]

  there's an opportunity cost they're like [TS]

  I probably should have been working on [TS]

  overcast at the time and instead i made [TS]

  bug shot and you know to only to have [TS]

  made a relatively small amount of money [TS]

  over like a year worth of sales it [TS]

  probably wasn't worth it in retrospect [TS]

  and that's that's why I eventually [TS]

  decided to just make it free and just [TS]

  you know learn from it [TS]

  whatever I could [TS]

  whatever I could [TS]

  learn from having a free apple store so [TS]

  with with forecasts I'm kind of faced [TS]

  with a similar conclusion or a similar [TS]

  dilemma here of DUI charge for nye talk [TS]

  actually a little bit about this last [TS]

  week when we talked about sidetrack my [TS]

  alignment utility that also exists [TS]

  although forecasters is way more in a [TS]

  releasable state because it's just a [TS]

  simple problem but anyway I don't really [TS]

  know where they're going to charge for [TS]

  not if i'm going to charge for it would [TS]

  probably be like 50 bucks because [TS]

  anything less than that i want to be [TS]

  worth it but the problem is like how [TS]

  many people are going to pay for a [TS]

  podcast chapter utility now there is a [TS]

  podcast chapter utility already the mac [TS]

  app store today I believe it's called [TS]

  podcast chapters [TS]

  its twenty bucks and as far as i can [TS]

  tell it doesn't look at selling in in [TS]

  meaningful volume which is too bad [TS]

  because i think this is a market that [TS]

  that should be a strong market with me [TS]

  going in there saying I want to be able [TS]

  to charge 50 bucks for this it's not [TS]

  very promising there's already one for [TS]

  twenty that appears not to be selling [TS]

  very well so I think you gotta figure [TS]

  like yeah you know I could push it i can [TS]

  use my brand of my blue checkmark to [TS]

  really sell this thing and like but how [TS]

  many copies am I really going to say how [TS]

  many people are really making chapter [TS]

  eyes podcast and willing to pay fifty [TS]

  bucks for my version of solving this [TS]

  problem that number is probably [TS]

  something like a hundred people at most [TS]

  it in the most optimistic projection a [TS]

  hundred people probably more like 20 to [TS]

  30 people if I'm really being honestly [TS]

  it's probably a very small number of [TS]

  people who actually buy this thing so [TS]

  because it's so small I i want i'm [TS]

  leaning mostly towards not even charging [TS]

  money for it because it just seems like [TS]

  the overhead of charging money would not [TS]

  really be be worth setting all that up [TS]

  that being said you know I also have an [TS]

  app called quitter which we probably [TS]

  plugged poorly last episode my life and [TS]

  I have a quitter and it would kind of be [TS]

  interesting learning experience to [TS]

  figure out how to charge money for mac [TS]

  apps to set up the infrastructure to [TS]

  charge money for mac apps [TS]

  this is a lot of the outside the app [TS]

  store because that the mac app store [TS]

  does not really [TS]

  offer anything it doesn't offer enough [TS]

  to make it worth the thirty percent [TS]

  anymore if it ever did anyway so big [TS]

  question is do I release this thing and [TS]

  then do i charge for it and then if i [TS]

  charge for how do i charge for it and [TS]

  then the the following topics which is [TS]

  how do i do license management and [TS]

  piracy prevention or rather piracy [TS]

  reduction I guess it's a little more [TS]

  realistic Iran know these things work [TS]

  so what do you think which they do here [TS]

  if you weren't going to charge for it [TS]

  which you're slowly convincing me out [TS]

  before I was like you should just charge [TS]

  a huge amount of money four kiss five [TS]

  people are gonna buy it and [TS]

  unfortunately you're gonna get free [TS]

  copies that's why people so really [TS]

  you're gonna sell 0 right but now you [TS]

  talk about it more like well it's going [TS]

  to be free [TS]

  I started to think like not only should [TS]

  it be free it should be open source [TS]

  because when some annoying corner case [TS]

  of the spec comes out there is enough [TS]

  nerdy people that they'll just you know [TS]

  send you a pull request and like like [TS]

  why why not get the benefits of it being [TS]

  for you're not going to get the many of [TS]

  the benefits of of making any money if [TS]

  you're going to make it free [TS]

  why not go all the other direction so [TS]

  not only is this free this is open [TS]

  source and then also like if you get [TS]

  tired of maintaining it some other [TS]

  person who's more enthusiastic about [TS]

  maintaining it could take it over [TS]

  because you just want this tool to exist [TS]

  which is why you're making it like [TS]

  you're scratching your own niche here [TS]

  sure that this is your grand plan for [TS]

  world domination right i think you would [TS]

  be fine if someone took it over and kept [TS]

  up with all these you know whenever you [TS]

  get over for like oh I tried to use your [TS]

  tool and didn't work on this particular [TS]

  weird thing and coat over this like you [TS]

  want to deal with that crap so I would [TS]

  say free and open source is a good [TS]

  option or closed source and charge your [TS]

  amount of money as a deterrent like to [TS]

  keep away the looky-loos yeah and then [TS]

  see how it works out it and and if you [TS]

  really do want to figure out like how [TS]

  how can people send me money for a mac [TS]

  application like maybe as people saying [TS]

  in the in the chat room maybe make it [TS]

  like a tip jar type of thing where it's [TS]

  not even like patronage is not even like [TS]

  you're promising that anyone that you're [TS]

  even gonna like put that money into [TS]

  further developing this application is [TS]

  just like look this free if you like it [TS]

  and you want to say thank you put a [TS]

  dollar in this jar you [TS]

  nothing for this dollar like it doesn't [TS]

  even guarantee that I'm ever gonna make [TS]

  another version of the application but [TS]

  if you just want to be a nice person do [TS]

  that and I think that that you make as [TS]

  much money as the one where you charge [TS]

  five people 50 bucks [TS]

  it might well okay so let me address [TS]

  these two separate because these are too [TS]

  too big topics i think so first up the [TS]

  open-source question that's a very very [TS]

  good question it's an interesting theory [TS]

  of you know should be when I thought [TS]

  about that for this and sidetrack what I [TS]

  found the eight you know in just being a [TS]

  person uses computers for a while and [TS]

  and a little bit you know a little bit [TS]

  of direct developer experience but [TS]

  mostly just being a user of the stuff [TS]

  what i found is that there tends to be [TS]

  not that much value to entirely open [TS]

  source applications especially for [TS]

  fairly narrow uses like this there is [TS]

  lots of value and open source components [TS]

  and utility libraries and stuff like [TS]

  that is lots of value there but the [TS]

  value of open sourcing the entire app [TS]

  here is is not incredibly great unless [TS]

  there's going to be a lot of [TS]

  contributors working on it and foremost [TS]

  apps that simply doesn't happen from you [TS]

  know most apps getting a lot of [TS]

  contributors is like is like this this [TS]

  fantasy that you have when you think [TS]

  about open-sourcing it but then if you [TS]

  actually do open source it almost nobody [TS]

  contributes and you get a handful [TS]

  request here and there and then they're [TS]

  gonna just work then it's just like that [TS]

  it's like going through resumes but [TS]

  people probably work too and you have to [TS]

  like you know yet the ones you want to [TS]

  accept you i like you know make sure [TS]

  they work you gotta test them with all [TS]

  cases unit tests and all this crazy [TS]

  stuff and then it and even the ones that [TS]

  that that work that you want to add it [TS]

  might've been the way that you would [TS]

  want to do it or they could might be [TS]

  messy and let go and it's open source [TS]

  material like let go of the thing and [TS]

  like and I think you don't want a whole [TS]

  bunch of contribute something I think [TS]

  you just want like two smart people [TS]

  contributing to and that's it and all [TS]

  does is like relieved that the [TS]

  maintenance burden for you it with the [TS]

  idea that eventually you'll be bored [TS]

  with it and someone else will just take [TS]

  it over and then you'll be sending them [TS]

  five line for requests [TS]

  yeah but I mean it i think in reality [TS]

  again that that's a great theory in [TS]

  reality doesn't happen very often and [TS]

  also when you so when you open source [TS]

  things you know especially for those [TS]

  like you have the problem of like you're [TS]

  generating work for yourself because [TS]

  you're going [TS]

  I have to deal with the the [TS]

  contributions and and the reports from [TS]

  people and everything that we do is you [TS]

  don't have to deal with the [TS]

  contributions to get you can just ignore [TS]

  it eventually people will fork it and [TS]

  like it that's the only thing your [TS]

  journey was not i think i'm going that's [TS]

  every open source thing I've ever done [TS]

  it's been like look here it is [TS]

  maybe if I feel like I look at your pull [TS]

  request but if not like because if [TS]

  people are annoyed you're not taking a [TS]

  power crystal just workin and then like [TS]

  they've taken out that's the only way [TS]

  you get people to take it over if you [TS]

  just neglected and then someone else [TS]

  takes over not good [TS]

  done like I guess I'm thinking of it as [TS]

  totally like not feeling any social [TS]

  responsibility because this is a very [TS]

  obscure thing yes like it is not a mass [TS]

  market thing it's super obscure and it's [TS]

  just it's just kind of your way of [TS]

  having like buying a lottery ticket for [TS]

  removing a small amount of maintenance [TS]

  for future but it really is totally [TS]

  giving up ownership of it so forget [TS]

  about like picking a cool name for it [TS]

  and having any ownership or any state [TS]

  northridge was like please open source [TS]

  like it's the far extreme of the these [TS]

  possibilities which you have never done [TS]

  anything like this and the only reason [TS]

  I'm suggesting in this case it's because [TS]

  this seems like the only time I would [TS]

  ever recommend it because it's so it's [TS]

  so clearly not [TS]

  not a thing that has any potential [TS]

  upside that like that is significant [TS]

  yeah i agree with John unless you're [TS]

  going to spend a be charging an absurd [TS]

  amount of money which i think in [TS]

  principle you could because the kind of [TS]

  people that would use this for probably [TS]

  the kind of people that make a decent [TS]

  amount of money at making these shows [TS]

  mm that's not necessarily true that's [TS]

  not necessarily true but it's certainly [TS]

  possible but but regardless of that I i [TS]

  think john has convinced me listening to [TS]

  him that open sourcing is probably best [TS]

  way to go because the key to open [TS]

  sourcing it is is that you can point at [TS]

  that you'll get hub repo and just say [TS]

  you know drug it's up to you man I did [TS]

  my part now it's up to you and and then [TS]

  if somebody complains do that something [TS]

  isn't working you can you are completely [TS]

  absolved of any guilt because it is [TS]

  within their power in principle to [TS]

  attack that's a wonderful Theory it [TS]

  doesn't work in practice w that's like [TS]

  it you can just it's just a change in [TS]

  attitude you just say like what [TS]

  like that I I'm not offering you support [TS]

  for this this is not a product you [TS]

  didn't pay me any more like about me if [TS]

  anyone actually complain be like you're [TS]

  getting what you paid for our refund all [TS]

  zero dollars of your mind like don't [TS]

  even respond to the emails don't even [TS]

  look at things like I'm good at that [TS]

  tons of times or suffer as like that and [TS]

  I don't think anyone can get mad about [TS]

  it like pop here it is and you can [TS]

  continue to edit your thing or like like [TS]

  there's no obligation i feel like this [TS]

  is you know this is a topic of some [TS]

  countries in the open source world [TS]

  people like once you have it open source [TS]

  you have to like maintain it and do a [TS]

  breast know you don't that my i'm [TS]

  totally of the opinion if you just want [TS]

  to plop a bunch of code down maybe like [TS]

  period and never never communicate with [TS]

  anyone in the entire world about it ever [TS]

  again [TS]

  just put it under license is like you [TS]

  wanted here you go for kit do whatever [TS]

  the hell you want you and your friends [TS]

  do whatever you want if you don't have [TS]

  the ability to change it [TS]

  oh well you're sucks to be you like but [TS]

  whatever i'm a programmer i wrote this [TS]

  for my own purposes and as a nice aside [TS]

  check it out there so other people can [TS]

  mess with that they want if i'm in the [TS]

  mood and someone sends me focus maybe on [TS]

  corporate but no promises maybe I'll [TS]

  never look at it again which I [TS]

  understand like that doesn't feel good [TS]

  to a lot of people it doesn't but like [TS]

  to me that feels like one of the [TS]

  beautiful things about open source like [TS]

  the the you that it's kind of like [TS]

  rather than sort of keeping it to [TS]

  yourself like say you would we take the [TS]

  the selling to people off the table [TS]

  which I don't think it should be off [TS]

  table anyway say they the alternatives [TS]

  like I wrote this out for myself and I [TS]

  use it myself and this is the [TS]

  alternative like don't don't hi it's [TS]

  like a taking all your belongings with [TS]

  you when you die or I like you you know [TS]

  as soon as I died burn every one of the [TS]

  van Gogh paintings i own because I don't [TS]

  want anyone else to ever have them it's [TS]

  like I made this thing for myself but [TS]

  also i want to share with the world so [TS]

  if you want it here it is it is what it [TS]

  is [TS]

  go nuts with it and then having it [TS]

  doesn't affect you because the software [TS]

  like you can both have it at the same [TS]

  time and you can both do whatever you [TS]

  want with it develop it not develop it [TS]

  whatever and the final thing is like it [TS]

  has all the benefits of being free [TS]

  because like if we look at the iTunes [TS]

  podcast directory there are a huge [TS]

  number of podcasts if you made a free to [TS]

  like this word would get around among [TS]

  the tongue [TS]

  in terms of sort of like you know like [TS]

  that whatever the bell curve looks like [TS]

  for podcast in terms of traffic numbers [TS]

  the longtail podcasts that are out there [TS]

  are a lot of podcast and i bet a few of [TS]

  them if they need to look at this and [TS]

  workout lycopene atul does this the [TS]

  easiest one is this free mac app click [TS]

  on this thing download the thing and use [TS]

  it [TS]

  whatever your help like you're helping a [TS]

  lot of people do their part of gas [TS]

  production and if those people come [TS]

  looking for like I found a bug in this [TS]

  program or whatever you don't respond to [TS]

  them either because they got a free [TS]

  application off like a github page like [TS]

  maybe they won't even be downloading it [TS]

  from your page they'd be downloaded from [TS]

  the seventh or eighth person who worked [TS]

  at who knows [TS]

  ok and those are all reasonable concerns [TS]

  and reasonable points but I don't think [TS]

  I'm ready to give up that kind of [TS]

  control [TS]

  I know I know I I totally know through [TS]

  your personality you don't want to do [TS]

  this right and by open source yet you [TS]

  you closing of doors for yourself in the [TS]

  future like I mean yes you open some [TS]

  thank you with richard stallman but you [TS]

  know you close the door for yourself of [TS]

  like what if i wanted to start charging [TS]

  for it in in like the next version or or [TS]

  even even just take this versions are [TS]

  hurting for like they're there are a lot [TS]

  of opportunities that you basically [TS]

  closed off by doing that also open [TS]

  source has a number of problems in in [TS]

  today's world and I don't know this was [TS]

  always the case but it certainly seems [TS]

  like today this is this is a big problem [TS]

  where any kind of open source app now in [TS]

  the world of app stores will have lots [TS]

  of opportunistic vultures and scammers [TS]

  basically just taking it changing the [TS]

  name maybe if you're lucky and put it on [TS]

  the app store for money and try to make [TS]

  money off of it [TS]

  if this happens so to all sorts of open [TS]

  source applications now it happens a lot [TS]

  app review would never allow that [TS]

  yeah alright thats that's hilarious but [TS]

  a little icon of mario on it and exactly [TS]

  you can call it minecraft to point out [TS]

  and i'm sure that will go right through [TS]

  our view exactly and so it basically [TS]

  like it there's a lot of problems with [TS]

  like entire open source applications [TS]

  that's one of them and so yeah i mean i [TS]

  don't think i'll open source it you know [TS]

  if I if I ever decided that I was like [TS]

  done working on it and I would that it [TS]

  was going to be unmaintained you know [TS]

  maybe they're not open source of that [TS]

  would be kind of the class [TS]

  he moved to do if there were no obvious [TS]

  problems by doing that but you know [TS]

  that's it i would I think I keep a close [TS]

  source until I figure out what to do [TS]

  with it [TS]

  that being said you know again like do I [TS]

  really charged for it or not I don't [TS]

  know I mean ultimately the world is [TS]

  better off if it's free but I have a [TS]

  hard time justifying working on it if [TS]

  it's free so i have to kind of balance [TS]

  that like you know is it really like [TS]

  because it every day has been working on [TS]

  this [TS]

  I'm not improving overcast and i still [TS]

  need to do that too and you know I need [TS]

  to like this needs to be a project i [TS]

  only work on in short bursts so that i [TS]

  can get back to work on overcast which [TS]

  is still providing the bulk of my [TS]

  software income so you know it's I don't [TS]

  know it's a tough balance i would love [TS]

  to be in a position where I could start [TS]

  making real money from podcasting tools [TS]

  and have that start being an important [TS]

  part of our business like it spent more [TS]

  time working on it but I think as as [TS]

  many people have have family try to this [TS]

  business it's just very hard to make [TS]

  money off of partisan tools because even [TS]

  though podcasting is is really doing [TS]

  very well right now the number of [TS]

  podcast producers are still fairly small [TS]

  relative to things like blogging and so [TS]

  and stuff like that it's still pretty [TS]

  small number prison podcasts and of the [TS]

  ones who produce podcast there are so [TS]

  many different ways to produce them so [TS]

  many different tool people prefer to use [TS]

  or can afford to use or need to use in [TS]

  various conditions that they're working [TS]

  in that even if you make a tool the the [TS]

  percentage of the market that will [TS]

  actually choose to use that tool [TS]

  especially if it's if it's charge charge [TS]

  money for it like it you're talking [TS]

  about very small numbers of people and [TS]

  if you mean if you raise the price high [TS]

  enough to make it worth your time to [TS]

  develop it [TS]

  those people will be able to afford it [TS]

  anymore so it's it's just really it's a [TS]

  very hard market to really make money in [TS]

  directly through direct sales now of [TS]

  course there are other strategies I [TS]

  could use here i could give away a whole [TS]

  bunch of great production tools for free [TS]

  that are all optimized for how overcast [TS]

  works and so this will be in a position [TS]

  to do things like you know add new [TS]

  metadata formats that it wasn't that [TS]

  overcast could debut being the first apt [TS]

  to read them [TS]

  and that would also pissed off a lot of [TS]

  people but you know that's that's an [TS]

  option i could do I could just have this [TS]

  thing be a be something that you know [TS]

  pushes the mp3 chapter 4i because i love [TS]

  mp3 chapters i hate m4a chapters that's [TS]

  a terrible format and this would help [TS]

  push it towards mp3 which overcast feels [TS]

  better with which everybody better with [TS]

  it's a much easier format [TS]

  it'sit's actually documented that's a [TS]

  big one right there [TS]

  thanks Apple front never documented the [TS]

  original and for a sec and enhanced [TS]

  format anyway lots of options i have [TS]

  here I don't think this is for all the [TS]

  listeners so i guess i guess i can move [TS]

  on from that portion of you know whether [TS]

  releasing whether i charge for it and [TS]

  then we can move on to discussing piracy [TS]

  fun but first response to this week by [TS]

  Harry's go to Harry's calm / ATP to get [TS]

  five dollars off your first purchase you [TS]

  know her razor companies keep putting [TS]

  out new models and reason they're [TS]

  already high prices [TS]

  well our friends over at Harry's don't [TS]

  believe it up charging they just made a [TS]

  bunch of improvements to their razors [TS]

  and blades and they're keeping prices [TS]

  exactly the same so it's still just two [TS]

  dollars per blade cartridge compared to [TS]

  before more dollars you will pay at the [TS]

  drugstore for the big brands Harry's [TS]

  five blade razor cartridges now include [TS]

  a softer flex hinge for more comfortable [TS]

  glide a trimmer blade for hard-to-reach [TS]

  places a lubricating strip and a [TS]

  textured handle for more control when [TS]

  it's wet hair is founded by two friends [TS]

  to offer people a great shave at a fair [TS]

  price this is for both men and women by [TS]

  own the factory in Germany where they [TS]

  make the blades Harry's can produce [TS]

  high-quality razors themselves and some [TS]

  online for half the price of your [TS]

  programs really half the price two bucks [TS]

  per blade cartridge for heritage blades [TS]

  or less if you buy in bulk qualities a [TS]

  hundred percent guaranteed always if you [TS]

  don't love your shave Harry's will fully [TS]

  refund your money to get the starter set [TS]

  to the stars that is an amazing deal you [TS]

  get a weighted razor handle of your [TS]

  choice moisturizing shave cream three [TS]

  precision-engineered five blade [TS]

  cartridges and a travel cover all for [TS]

  just 15 bucks and for a limited time [TS]

  only there's a special offer fans of the [TS]

  show you can get it for even less [TS]

  because you go to Harry's calm / ATP and [TS]

  you get five dollars off your first [TS]

  purchase just ten bucks for starter set [TS]

  an amazing deal go to Harry's complex [TS]

  ATP right now to clean your offer [TS]

  that's Harry's calm / [TS]

  ATP thanks a lot [TS]

  so based on your what we know about you [TS]

  and how you don't want to do is open [TS]

  source and you want to give away free or [TS]

  whatever but also what you said about [TS]

  the maximum addressable market for this [TS]

  application being relatively small it's [TS]

  making me leaning pretty heavily towards [TS]

  the idea that you do not spend much time [TS]

  trying to prevent piracy because I've [TS]

  has been discussing slack for the best [TS]

  weeks and as has been discussed many [TS]

  times on the web especially in the old [TS]

  days back before you know the days of [TS]

  shareware and everything you can invest [TS]

  essentially infinite time and trying to [TS]

  stop piracy you will always lose it's [TS]

  almost impossible to stop unless you're [TS]

  really bad your legitimate users and and [TS]

  then for what to get like two extra [TS]

  users out of addressable market of a [TS]

  hundred it's just not worth it like so [TS]

  not only should you not spend lots of [TS]

  your time on an application that you [TS]

  know is not gonna make tons of money up [TS]

  but of the time that you spend all that [TS]

  time should be on the actual application [TS]

  very little of it should be on the part [TS]

  that you know prevent piracy just you [TS]

  want to prevent super casual piracy so [TS]

  do basically the simplest thing a little [TS]

  possibly work and uh and i would say [TS]

  that's it and then just like you know [TS]

  you don't do nothing because it's so [TS]

  easy to just do something and that helps [TS]

  but and especially if like as you [TS]

  mentioned the ambition to be like this [TS]

  could be a stepping stone to like it you [TS]

  know of a suite of podcasting tools are [TS]

  indicated integrated podcast production [TS]

  application like you have to build your [TS]

  way up to an app like that it's very [TS]

  difficult for single developer yeah with [TS]

  other applications to do that like but [TS]

  if you are going to build your way up to [TS]

  it you'd want to build it on a ladder of [TS]

  small applications that make money in [TS]

  that you learn things from and once you [TS]

  do like Marcos minimal casual piracy [TS]

  prevention kit you just reuse that and [TS]

  all the other apps you do and then you [TS]

  know there's there's a it's an [TS]

  infrastructure when like you do it once [TS]

  do it to your satisfaction [TS]

  don't worry about it again and then try [TS]

  not to because as programmers it's fun [TS]

  to get sucked into like all I can battle [TS]

  these hackers and what if i do this [TS]

  clever thing and that like you're going [TS]

  to lose and it's just a rat hole and no [TS]

  one gives you money for throwing daggers [TS]

  like literally no one gives you my like [TS]

  it's the whole thing about how many [TS]

  people would have paid if you prevented [TS]

  it [TS]

  like do enough to keep the people with a [TS]

  conscience vaguely honest and then call [TS]

  today [TS]

  yeah that's I mean that's basically my [TS]

  thought here too which is if i charge [TS]

  which again I'm I'm really leaning [TS]

  mostly towards keeping close source but [TS]

  probably seen it for free but if i do [TS]

  charge for it [TS]

  ultimately i agree because you know I [TS]

  grew up as as a pc user and in the late [TS]

  nineties pirating tons of crap as a [TS]

  stupid teenager I know how these things [TS]

  work and I it's been awhile since I've [TS]

  been in that scene but i'm pretty sure [TS]

  it basically works the same way now as [TS]

  it always has the easiest case scenario [TS]

  is you share key and even if you start [TS]

  doing like he checks well then you just [TS]

  hack the binary to bypass the check and [TS]

  no matter how obscure and you know you [TS]

  can obfuscate the check you can put [TS]

  multiple texts all over the code there's [TS]

  all sorts of strategies techniques you [TS]

  can do and ultimately none of them [TS]

  really work for very long and you can [TS]

  look at the gaming mark the pc gaming [TS]

  market for all their wonderful tricks [TS]

  they they probably over the years and [TS]

  most of which get cracked fairly quickly [TS]

  you know granted a big reason those get [TS]

  cracked is because there's a lot of [TS]

  people who want them to be correct and [TS]

  if for a very narrow to like this if [TS]

  it's only gonna be like a hundred [TS]

  possible customers you know it's very [TS]

  likely that none of those hundred people [TS]

  are actually like professional crack [TS]

  this but you know the reality is that I [TS]

  i agree that it's not really worth [TS]

  spending a lot of time on it is we're [TS]

  spending some time on because a little [TS]

  goes a long way if if you put in a [TS]

  system where like all right i just [TS]

  bought it and I want to give it to Casey [TS]

  and I just you know I email him a copy [TS]

  of my key and he's entered it works and [TS]

  then what if he wants to go to a friends [TS]

  he just passed on Mikey to like you know [TS]

  how does all these things work or in the [TS]

  case where none of us have bought it you [TS]

  know does he go on whatever the [TS]

  bittorrent tracker of the month is and [TS]

  try to download it from there or [TS]

  download a cracked from some you know [TS]

  big database something i don't know i [TS]

  don't know if it's been a long time to [TS]

  piracy think but or at least anything [TS]

  that was a TV show but I I assume that's [TS]

  how these things still work and you're [TS]

  never gonna win against that and so yeah [TS]

  it isn't worth a lot of effort it and [TS]

  there's and I am I'm of [TS]

  course not naive enough to assume that [TS]

  every pirated copy is a lost sale and if [TS]

  i make it impossible to pirate on me [TS]

  crazy or something that I can that i [TS]

  will somehow get all those sails again [TS]

  like I know that's how the world works [TS]

  but i would build something you know I [TS]

  could do some kind of cryptographic key [TS]

  like that's pretty easy i have like a [TS]

  public/private key thing already set up [TS]

  to like you know I can verify that my [TS]

  server generated a certain string like [TS]

  an you know with signature and [TS]

  everything but this all really seems [TS]

  like it's probably not necessary at all [TS]

  because this is probably not charging [TS]

  for at least for a while and maybe [TS]

  someday if I have you know a few years [TS]

  down the road if I have like a suite of [TS]

  tools that i can release together as [TS]

  like one sweet and maybe charge fifty or [TS]

  hundred bucks for that maybe that [TS]

  becomes more compelling and maybe I [TS]

  charged then but i just don't see [TS]

  charging for this now in a way that [TS]

  would be really worth the trouble [TS]

  because i think that most I might make a [TS]

  couple thousand dollars over the course [TS]

  of like a year and it you know i know [TS]

  that sounds like a lot of money to some [TS]

  people but if I have to have this entire [TS]

  support system in place to make that [TS]

  it's probably not worth it you know as [TS]

  I'm thinking about it listening to you [TS]

  talk [TS]

  the only reason I can see not to open [TS]

  source it on the assumption that it's [TS]

  free which is what it sounds like your [TS]

  kind of backing your way into the only [TS]

  reason I can see not to open source it [TS]

  is if you wanted to eventually sell it [TS]

  down the road and that's a weak argument [TS]

  to begin with but if you make it free [TS]

  there's still support burden it may not [TS]

  be quite as obnoxious as a paid app but [TS]

  you still have a support Burton whereas [TS]

  if you open source it it should absolve [TS]

  you of any support but i guarantee you [TS]

  it doesn't i guarantee it but that's all [TS]

  in you right i think i think the free [TS]

  one absolves you support to cause it's [TS]

  free like I don't think the open-source [TS]

  get through the support like it was the [TS]

  open source does is that I was just [TS]

  saying like if people do send your [TS]

  patches you don't have to accept those [TS]

  but if you have a free app to that does [TS]

  not support Burton they're like it's a [TS]

  free app like this is what i'm using [TS]

  right now i have a link on our website [TS]

  you feel free to download and use it but [TS]

  you get nothing for me I don't owe you [TS]

  anything i again i will refund your [TS]

  entire zero dollars that you paid for it [TS]

  well but what if it's open source than [TS]

  you can say will go fix it yourself [TS]

  which is obnoxious but now you can [TS]

  actually you can actually say that you [TS]

  should never actually said that and you [TS]

  can't say that because nobody who [TS]

  complains knows how to fix it [TS]

  yeah i mean like i am a programmer i use [TS]

  lots of open source libraries and stuff [TS]

  and things and i hardly ever fix bugs in [TS]

  them [TS]

  I just if I find a problem with one eye [TS]

  either worker and I stopped using it [TS]

  usually because usually it's it's a [TS]

  deeper problem that I don't feel [TS]

  qualified to fix or don't want to spend [TS]

  the time to get familiar enough with the [TS]

  codebase to fix correctly and be like [TS]

  hey how many podcast producers are also [TS]

  Mac programmers as some of them are but [TS]

  probably not a lot of them but yeah [TS]

  that's a fair point I really feel like [TS]

  if you have a free app you will [TS]

  definitely get a free closed source app [TS]

  you will definitely get support requests [TS]

  and complaints and if it were me anyway [TS]

  I would feel a lot more compulsion to to [TS]

  address those because I'm the only [TS]

  person on the planet who can address [TS]

  them as opposed to if this thing is on [TS]

  github which admittedly the people who [TS]

  are emailing may not have the capability [TS]

  of fixing the problem but but at least [TS]

  there's some other human being out there [TS]

  that might be able to and that's how i [TS]

  would rest easy at night is knowing look [TS]

  I'm not helping all these people that [TS]

  are whining about what doesn't doesn't [TS]

  doesn't does not work but I'm also not [TS]

  standing in the way of them figuring out [TS]

  a way to fix it is any future designs on [TS]

  podcast reduction products which clearly [TS]

  as though all you're doing is giving [TS]

  head start your competitor to your [TS]

  future competitors essentially like [TS]

  someone could just pick up that codes [TS]

  are going to use this is the basis of my [TS]

  competing sweet and that's that's not a [TS]

  good plan if thats here if you even not [TS]

  even plan to do that but like I might do [TS]

  that like you like Marcus everyone says [TS]

  I want to leave that option open so yeah [TS]

  and getting back to the serial number [TS]

  thing I think the most important feature [TS]

  of the antivirus thing other than the [TS]

  fact that it exists at all as a you know [TS]

  I'm non zero barrier is that it not [TS]

  annoy honest people and is the pump up [TS]

  the part where most of these systems [TS]

  fall down because really where like it's [TS]

  again it's so tempting to be able to [TS]

  judge your ante peri system on how well [TS]

  prevent piracy but your anti-piracy [TS]

  system should be judged on how little it [TS]

  annoys people who are not pirates and [TS]

  that's really hard to do you really [TS]

  mostly in terms of restraint you have to [TS]

  like back off and not be like but but [TS]

  but if I can't contact the server to [TS]

  verify the code i should launch right [TS]

  it's like no no you gotta go just let go [TS]

  just think think about the honest user [TS]

  and how you never want to be in their [TS]

  face [TS]

  yeah no I mean that's I mean III because [TS]

  I am me I bring from all sorts of crazy [TS]

  ways that I could do this then think of [TS]

  course I'm I'm thinking about doing a [TS]

  password this email lock because that's [TS]

  what I do we already beta-tested that [TS]

  the focus group is not a not good i [TS]

  still don't have a problem with it [TS]

  yeah that's because maybe your emails [TS]

  likely show up in time and you're not [TS]

  sitting there hitting refresh on your [TS]

  email client gone cursing Marco every [TS]

  time [TS]

  yeah so anyway those of us with really [TS]

  my clients love these kind of systems [TS]

  you but it's not the clients your damn [TS]

  server it's not gonna take you somewhere [TS]

  trying to get out of your is be my [TS]

  server is your client [TS]

  this is why you don't use the gmail web [TS]

  app kids this way don't use gmail kids [TS]

  gmail's 50 gmail gets mail gmail get [TS]

  smells like instantly except for yours I [TS]

  really don't know no some websites [TS]

  third-party websites that are not [TS]

  Google's I go and I do like a reset my [TS]

  password i click the reset my password [TS]

  link and like before the mouse button is [TS]

  up it arrives in the other browser [TS]

  window in gmail like and when i see that [TS]

  i realized it's that gmail that's not [TS]

  checking my mail fast enough [TS]

  it's something else there's internet [TS]

  traffic emails store-and-forward system [TS]

  many things can go wrong it's not that [TS]

  it's great listing it's always great if [TS]

  there's ever a delayed email arriving in [TS]

  2016 it's great listing it is not like [TS]

  all the postfix queue is full no that's [TS]

  we are so far past that point these days [TS]

  so for those who are familiar great [TS]

  listing is a type of spam prevention [TS]

  technique where basically that the [TS]

  theory is that spam servers have to go [TS]

  to this massive list and don't have time [TS]

  to like retry and wait around [TS]

  if the server says I'm busy try again [TS]

  later so the idea it but well behaving [TS]

  mail sending server if this its [TS]

  destination server says sorry I'm busy [TS]

  try again later it'll actually hold that [TS]

  message for a while like a week and and [TS]

  you'll just try like every hour every [TS]

  you know whatever will try again after [TS]

  certain certain short intervals and [TS]

  followed by long intervals anyway it [TS]

  doesn't matter [TS]

  so a spam prevention techniques that a [TS]

  lot of people that a lot of places do is [TS]

  upon like the first time you you get [TS]

  email from from a certain center so you [TS]

  don't already know they're legit you you [TS]

  just tell them oh you're too busy right [TS]

  now wait a bit and the theory is the [TS]

  spammers we'll just move on because [TS]

  there's the spam bots have enough memory [TS]

  to keep track of all those things and [TS]

  try again later and then but legit [TS]

  servers will try again later and we'll [TS]

  get through and that's why so often the [TS]

  first email you get from a certain [TS]

  service or whatever else will be delayed [TS]

  by like an hour that's that's what's [TS]

  happening it is not any other reason is [TS]

  that it's great listing was like the [TS]

  first email from your service gets [TS]

  delayed its random and it's not an hour [TS]

  it's like 60 seconds but it seems like a [TS]

  long 60 seconds i'm sitting there [TS]

  waiting for it to arrive [TS]

  no it'sit's kind of it's up to you well [TS]

  okay i see you're saying it when you're [TS]

  in your case it's not that long because [TS]

  like it's I think it's kind of up to the [TS]

  client is to like up to the center as to [TS]

  when they try again but i think i think [TS]

  a common practice is about an hour or [TS]

  something like that but yeah anyway it's [TS]

  kind of like the the orders of magnitude [TS]

  in terms of like instantaneous is less [TS]

  than the speed and like you know not [TS]

  waiting is less than you know hundred [TS]

  milliseconds and like it is the certain [TS]

  like you know orders of magnitude of [TS]

  like 10 milliseconds a hundred [TS]

  milliseconds one second of like you know [TS]

  when does attention wander when do you [TS]

  feel like you can go off and do other [TS]

  things when do you feel like you're [TS]

  waiting on it and going from one having [TS]

  a password and having an auto-fill and [TS]

  clicking the button is in a different [TS]

  order magnitude than having to go to get [TS]

  an email like even before you get into [TS]

  the idea of like having to find a link [TS]

  to click on or whatever or copy and [TS]

  paste something whatever it is you may [TS]

  have to do it is just a whole other [TS]

  order of magnitude in terms of [TS]

  responsiveness of like how long does it [TS]

  take me to login to the site and what [TS]

  other things involved so not a fan [TS]

  alright thank you are three sponsors [TS]

  this week hover trunk club and Harry's [TS]

  and we will see you next week [TS]

  now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

  mean to be in because it was accidental [TS]

  it was accidental John research Marco [TS]

  and Casey would let him because it was [TS]

  accidentally was accidental and you can [TS]

  find the show know today [TS] em and if your twitter follow [TS]

  them [TS]

  yes eyl ISS so that's Casey list and a [TS]

  co-pay RM Angie Marco Arment and our AC [TS]

  at Syracuse is [TS]

  you see all the articles like like our [TS]

  passwords the end of the password [TS]

  password is over like that all the just [TS]

  I I don't know I even click on those are [TS]

  girls name was all they're talking about [TS]

  like what password this login [TS]

  this is like this you know he'll escape [TS]

  where reset my password is the only way [TS]

  you can log into anything essentially [TS]

  well but I mean honestly first of all [TS]

  that is not that bad [TS]

  I've done it's fine second of all that [TS]

  is kind of the reality of how a lot of [TS]

  people log into things anyway because a [TS]

  lot of people I I know but it's not it's [TS]

  not a good reality like it's a bad [TS]

  reality I don't want that reality [TS]

  agreed but a lot of people like to [TS]

  always forget their password to [TS]

  everything and they just click that link [TS]

  almost every time they log in [TS]

  I know but anyway you still in the [TS]

  passwords your email like you're [TS]

  eventually get down to one password [TS]

  situation and then hey why not just use [TS]

  1password so here's a question what if [TS]

  what if my key system was a web login [TS]

  and what if it was basically like in the [TS]

  app it would have liked email and [TS]

  password know it you can you not make a [TS]

  client-side application that does not [TS]

  have a server component you do not need [TS]

  a server completed for you just like I [TS]

  want to write PHP dammit i know it's a [TS]

  madcap but like this a huge huge wind [TS]

  just giving people a binary and then [TS]

  they never touch your servers like its [TS]

  it scales much better than you having to [TS]

  babysit servers with that but that does [TS]

  not do anything about key sharing which [TS]

  is probably the biggest form of casual [TS]

  piracy not I was like it's free like it [TS]

  was free application i just want to show [TS]

  Jeffrey Jeffrey like quitter quitter I [TS]

  guess you did there's no server you want [TS]

  to quit right yeah just freaked but but [TS]

  you're just dying to do something in PHP [TS]

  like have a login page [TS]

  I like PHP i love all the backslashes in [TS]

  the namespaces not going to solve using [TS]

  the name is basically hit the back left [TS]

  you quickly got over windows and huh [TS]

  yeah i know-oh-oh AI can talk about that [TS]

  briefly if you wanted if we have an [TS]

  after-show don't have to tivo so yeah [TS]

  basically I i asked on Twitter so tiff [TS]

  wants to play a certain game that's only [TS]

  available on xbox one [TS]

  yeah xbox one and windows you asked on [TS]

  Twitter that's how you're gonna start [TS]

  the story [TS]

  yeah hey so what's the real start of the [TS]

  story his story is i was asked because [TS]

  I'm a person who you know who plays [TS]

  games on man [TS]

  exhale i want to play inside how should [TS]

  i do it and I told you the answer two [TS]

  days pass and then you post on Twitter [TS]

  hey can anyone tell me how I can play [TS]

  inside as if we had never talked as if [TS]

  the discussion never took place [TS]

  is that what I had to say was just [TS]

  garbage and obviously not trustworthy [TS]

  because what do I know having actually [TS]

  played inside on a Mac what did you tell [TS]

  each other's competition with me or tiff [TS]

  want you to you're the same person you [TS]

  live in the same no you did not know [TS]

  they are not a minute or two people she [TS]

  was like can you convince marco to do [TS]

  this I'm like you can convince mark I [TS]

  think your husband i bet you I bet you [TS]

  have some influence in that area so so [TS]

  wait so before I tell you what I did [TS]

  what should I have done so my options [TS]

  are basically like should I should I [TS]

  attempt to go through the hassle of [TS]

  making a bootcamp partition and and of [TS]

  course you know then having to install [TS]

  without first having to get windows [TS]

  having to install windows and then [TS]

  having to run windows or should be [TS]

  caused by an xbox one because they're [TS]

  actually not that expensive these days [TS]

  the answer the surrounding context of [TS]

  this is that a bunch of people who are [TS]

  on the incomparable have played inside [TS]

  and it's the whole reason I want to play [TS]

  was like they've already played it and [TS]

  they wanted to have a podcast about it [TS]

  and if you want to be on the podcast you [TS]

  have to have played at this point there [TS]

  was no implied schedule like when we [TS]

  were going to do this thing but the [TS]

  point is they had just played like three [TS]

  or four people that played it so there's [TS]

  a possibility that had three or four [TS]

  people played it could have gone up on [TS]

  the schedule for next week's show and so [TS]

  time was kind of the essence here and in [TS]

  that scenario in the context in which it [TS]

  was asked a bunch of people played [TS]

  inside I want to play too i only have a [TS]

  mac the answer the obvious answer is [TS]

  boot camp because it's not just an [TS]

  investment for this game because you can [TS]

  play lots of things in bootcamp there [TS]

  are lots of games that are only [TS]

  available for Windows and it's really [TS]

  easy to do and i know you have tons of [TS]

  our spare hard drives laying around and [TS]

  it gets you the game the fastest with [TS]

  the most bang for your buck now the [TS]

  windows thing is an issue but had you [TS]

  followed up with me that I would've told [TS]

  the same thing ever on twitter did which [TS]

  you can get a free trial and does the [TS]

  free trial matter for a game it takes [TS]

  three hours to play who cares a 90-day [TS]

  30-day free trial of windows like this [TS]

  is the fastest way to go from zero to i [TS]

  have played inside with minimal [TS]

  especially if you're not the one has to [TS]

  install bootcamp just make make you do [TS]

  it and like different makes you do it [TS]

  and it's fine but even if you have to do [TS]

  it yourself like I did [TS]

  before you even got to the point where [TS]

  you ask the same question on Twitter to [TS]

  get the same answers from other people i [TS]

  had finished the game free i did install [TS]

  I didn't know you can't play the game [TS]

  finished it like it is not that bad and [TS]

  now i actually have actually have a [TS]

  legitimate copy of windows7 from back in [TS]

  the day so now i have a more up-to-date [TS]

  bootcamp partition and by the way yes my [TS]

  2008 mac pro played inside just fine at [TS]

  native rest of course [TS]

  okay see what do you think I should have [TS]

  done oh you absolutely without a shadow [TS]

  of a doubt by the exponent because it [TS]

  was that is the most Marco a solution to [TS]

  this problem but now but you don't know [TS]

  like that the backstory and xbox one is [TS]

  there's two new ones coming out the [TS]

  better version of the current one and [TS]

  then a much more powerful one year later [TS]

  this is kind of the wrong time to buy an [TS]

  xbox one as well how much is the xbox [TS]

  one you can get among it you can get [TS]

  amazon for about 250 bucks you [TS]

  absolutely by the xbox one and then if [TS]

  you want to try to sell it for a hundred [TS]

  bucks later and I could be able to sell [TS]

  that xbox one once the new ones come out [TS]

  so here's my dilemma basically like the [TS]

  xbox is the lower effort very the lower [TS]

  efforts slightly more money version than [TS]

  just buying windows or whatever else [TS]

  which is the Marco version that is the [TS]

  Marco version yeah probably right [TS]

  however and and if it was if it was a [TS]

  ps4 and it already have plans for I [TS]

  might have done that [TS]

  however our house is full of game [TS]

  consoles that we've played very briefly [TS]

  and then you sit around for the next [TS]

  seven years collecting dust on the TV [TS]

  and I just I don't want another console [TS]

  because like if you like these two [TS]

  options what do I had like after we're [TS]

  done with this if it be whether it's [TS]

  like a windows partition or an external [TS]

  windows drive or whatever or this game [TS]

  system [TS]

  what am I stuck with afterwards in the [TS]

  house like what is going to collect us [TS]

  in the house afterwards if it's a [TS]

  bootcamp partition nothing or at worst [TS]

  an external disk of some kind if it's [TS]

  the game system which admittedly is [TS]

  easier i had this giant box sitting [TS]

  around these controllers and these plugs [TS]

  adapters and all this crap I i have [TS]

  games and we have a ps3 in the closet [TS]

  that I hardly ever played we have a ps4 [TS]

  that we've played that template i think [TS]

  two games on so far [TS]

  uh and but in VR stuffs gonna come out [TS]

  and make all these systems irrelevant [TS]

  anyway [TS]

  well I was like okay there we have a 360 [TS]

  that i bought like it you know back in [TS]

  two thousand eight or something that's [TS]

  that is very rarely actually you know [TS]

  we've used in bursts here they're like [TS]

  to like typically a certain game on my [TS]

  pleasure to give up but for the most [TS]

  part it didn't get a lot of use before [TS]

  that we had a we didn't get a lot of use [TS]

  because like everyone else is we we try [TS]

  to have fun for a month and i never [TS]

  played again you know with somewhere we [TS]

  have a wii fit balance board with this [TS]

  same the same fate happened i mean like [TS]

  i have always liked giant plastic games [TS]

  and all over the place trying to figure [TS]

  what the hell do it then we can really [TS]

  sell them not really worth enough to [TS]

  justify like they're shipping weight [TS]

  once they're used an old and so like I [TS]

  like what the heck do i doing so and [TS]

  also the xbox one in the current [TS]

  generation just seems like the loser [TS]

  system and I apologize for anybody who [TS]

  has fun but it just seemed like I have [TS]

  so often in my life made the wrong [TS]

  choice on a format war or a game console [TS]

  generation or something I've so often [TS]

  like shows in the losing side and then [TS]

  been stuck with this like losing [TS]

  hardware and and you know having all the [TS]

  problems that go along with that and so [TS]

  I try to avoid as much like and he's [TS]

  like I've done so many times like I [TS]

  bought a DVD + r dr I mean come on [TS]

  so I try to avoid that and the xbox one [TS]

  just seems like it has so definitively [TS]

  lost this generation and you know some [TS]

  generations are closed and others this [TS]

  one seems like it's not close [TS]

  well the xbox one that's the reason you [TS]

  want to buy now because it is poised to [TS]

  win the point five generation that [TS]

  they're both doing like so when in the [TS]

  revised versions the knot this knot the [TS]

  xbox that is essentially the same xbox [TS]

  one but smaller and quieter like what is [TS]

  coming out in a week [TS]

  yeah whatever not that one like that's [TS]

  fine that's just like what they normally [TS]

  do but the one after that which will be [TS]

  competing with the new new ps4 they will [TS]

  both be more powerful consoles the new [TS]

  more powerful xbox one who will be much [TS]

  more powerful than the new more powerful [TS]

  playstation 4 so it will be an inversion [TS]

  of the current scenario where the [TS]

  playstation 4 is slightly more powerful [TS]

  this will this will widen the gap in the [TS]

  opposite direction it will that be [TS]

  enough to make the xbox one do better in [TS]

  this generation probably not especially [TS]

  since they'll have to make the games [TS]

  playing xbox one too but [TS]

  I it's all that means is that this is [TS]

  the wrong time to buy an xbox one [TS]

  essential message a whole bunch of games [TS]

  that you know you want to play but more [TS]

  importantly in this whole big thing that [TS]

  you missed that you've gone through the [TS]

  most salient fact here is why you've [TS]

  been worrying about this tiff is not [TS]

  been playing inside and she can be done [TS]

  right it's a three-hour game you could [TS]

  have been done like all this hemming and [TS]

  hawing is like pointless and it's like [TS]

  oh you're not stuck with much and steam [TS]

  not only not stuck with much if you make [TS]

  like a boot camp partition that is an [TS]

  asset she will not delete it [TS]

  there are tons of games on steam that [TS]

  are only available on windows when they [TS]

  have steam sales she'll buy something [TS]

  for three bucks and get a day's worth of [TS]

  fun out of it and that's a good deal [TS]

  like you won't be like and I know you [TS]

  have hard drives her you don't have to [TS]

  buy a hard drive like you have them [TS]

  there [TS]

  this you should have already done this I [TS]

  feel like you're failing as a husband [TS]

  and probably the Father Adam is [TS]

  disappointed in you two let's be honest [TS]

  so here's the other the other side of [TS]

  this direction on the bootcamp side is i [TS]

  find windows dirty like I don't like [TS]

  Windows I i was there for so long I I i [TS]

  fled and I don't want to go back and i [TS]

  have i have occasionally maintained [TS]

  bootcamp rotation on my own computer on [TS]

  my own my own mac very occasionally and [TS]

  the last time for a long time ago [TS]

  because every time I do it every great [TS]

  having done it because I just I realize [TS]

  how much I hate windows and how much I [TS]

  actually don't like gaming very much [TS]

  anymore anyway but if tiptoes play games [TS]

  so you know if I want to I want to do [TS]

  something for her so I'm but her [TS]

  computer has like no free space which [TS]

  has tons of photos on that she's a [TS]

  photographer so tons of photos on there [TS]

  there's no free space in the built-in [TS]

  drive [TS]

  I eventually learned that oh you can [TS]

  actually do bootcamp on external drives [TS]

  these days I didn't realize that until [TS]

  fairly recently that solves all these [TS]

  problems like I don't feel like and [TS]

  dislike dirty windows partition sitting [TS]

  around like jumping up my mac all the [TS]

  time because i can just unplug the drive [TS]

  and put it in a drawer and then it's [TS]

  it's gone you know so i didn't and i [TS]

  also didn't want to put it on a spinning [TS]

  disk because those are huge and ugly and [TS]

  loud and actually don't have any [TS]

  two-and-a-half-inch appendix III only [TS]

  have three and a half inch ones that I [TS]

  could do it to it now be even larger and [TS]

  even louder and and even hotter and slow [TS]

  and i don't think i even have any [TS]

  three-and-a-half-inch enclosures this is [TS]

  a lot of excuses i installed on a big [TS]

  spent about five inches and you know [TS]

  what i want to play the game good and I [TS]

  hate windows my guarantee i hate windows [TS]

  more than you guarantee ya [TS]

  yeah well anyway so instead of doing any [TS]

  of those options I had to buy something [TS]

  of course because i like buying things I [TS]

  when I was on a ball one of those little [TS]

  samsung t three external ssds of course [TS]

  you did [TS]

  yeah because they're great overall and [TS]

  their friend has a little ssds great and [TS]

  I didn't have any other recipes that [TS]

  were large enough I have like an old [TS]

  really tiny one but none that were large [TS]

  enough I just bought the 250 gig one for [TS]

  like 80 bucks on amazon if you a few [TS]

  days ago [TS]

  it arrived yesterday i install this [TS]

  morning I'd i followed the stackoverflow [TS]

  instructions on like how to do an [TS]

  external windows first like load of [TS]

  vmware loadable little windows in that [TS]

  use the disc image tool whatever you [TS]

  know automated install tools or whatever [TS]

  to do all the stuff to make a [TS]

  configurable national guard then it's [TS]

  almost national driving these other [TS]

  windows installation from your vmware [TS]

  it's like all this crap sorry i'll put a [TS]

  scrap my laptop to figure out exactly [TS]

  what this cluttering up my best but it's [TS]

  like I want to vmware installation I'm [TS]

  never going to use that is going to [TS]

  cause problems for me so just put it on [TS]

  my left a friend okay so then i [TS]

  configured it all and now it works and [TS]

  as of this morning we have now is [TS]

  bootable little samsung SSD WSB has a [TS]

  Steve that we can plug into either of [TS]

  our computers whenever a game comes [TS]

  along we want to play and we can just [TS]

  play it i installed steam are our [TS]

  account force teams already set up and [TS]

  I'd already bought and downloaded inside [TS]

  it's all ready to go so typical now play [TS]

  inside by plugs into the computer [TS]

  rebooting and then we're done we can [TS]

  unplug it and put it in the drawer and [TS]

  if I really need disc for you no [TS]

  external use for her but I'm going on a [TS]

  trip or something i can just bring this [TS]

  disc and we have a disk and afterwards I [TS]

  don't have this giant game console [TS]

  collecting dust [TS]

  I have this useful little external drive [TS]

  so I'm reminded of what if I told me [TS]

  when I was telling her that she should [TS]

  speed you along to get this done several [TS]

  days earlier instead of asking and [TS]

  Twitter and doing all the stuff and not [TS]

  listening to things that I already told [TS]

  you he told her not me she told you to [TS]

  you live together anyway [TS]

  do you know what you told me what you [TS]

  said this is what Marco does you just [TS]

  have to let it run its course and you [TS]

  weren't going so well you just that this [TS]

  is what she said you just have to let it [TS]

  run its course [TS]

  spoken like a woman [TS]

  who knows what she's dealing with no one [TS]

  knows me better than her so it has run [TS]

  its course you have you have acquired a [TS]

  new toy you have read web pages about [TS]

  how to do something techy and net and [TS]

  now you're happy because you don't have [TS]

  an xbox in the house and you both have [TS]

  the capability place team games I just [TS]

  can't wait for you to be fighting over i [TS]

  guess you can just climb but at that [TS]

  point then you have to look up our [TS]

  windows disk line tools i guarantee you [TS]

  there will never be a time when TIFF and [TS]

  I both at the same time want to play the [TS]

  same windows game that's not good at [TS]

  both lay inside it's fun although yeah [TS]

  but just watch article i will be fine [TS]

  that's all I want to do yeah I just I [TS]

  cannot believe you spent this much time [TS]

  on this [TS]

  a what what is that you're supposed to [TS]

  be doing on overcast that you're [TS]

  refusing to do or avoiding doing with [TS]

  such passion that you're writing mac [TS]

  apps and installing windows a new watch [TS]

  app [TS]

  Oh from scratch for watching us three [TS]

  that's what I have to drive because you [TS]

  skipped a generation like Apple in there [TS]

  max yeah because the generation sucked [TS]

  to show me any watcher was to developers [TS]

  like I'm glad I did that I can't think [TS]

  of any underscores glad is now he has [TS]

  the experience now we can do watch apps [TS]

  and sleepy sneezes and watch app comes [TS]

  up [TS]