The Accidental Tech Podcast

181: Eat Your Vegetables


  goodness John how was your trip to Long [TS]

  Island just lovely [TS]

  do you like the beach I hear you're [TS]

  plugging your phone in i am i'm rolling [TS]

  unified you up and ask me questions so [TS]

  now you get to hear behind-the-scenes i [TS]

  plug in my phone so my charger as well I [TS]

  record it's exciting [TS]

  why why not just do that when you go to [TS]

  pad i do how long of a time span is it [TS]

  between when the podcast and when you go [TS]

  to bed usually you never know [TS]

  vacation was good anything interesting [TS]

  to report you rented a camera would you [TS]

  like to learn ya whole camera right [TS]

  would you like to talk about that at all [TS]

  yeah camera and a bunch of lenses this [TS]

  is marcos recommendation of what camera [TS]

  should rent and the only reason I was [TS]

  doing it all is because my wife is going [TS]

  off on a cruise with her mother which is [TS]

  the thing to do [TS]

  maybe we'll talk about later and she [TS]

  decided that our camera is not good [TS]

  enough [TS]

  she's had too much proximity exposure to [TS]

  Marco's fancy cameras and other people [TS]

  that runs like rubbing off on her so [TS]

  she's like we should get a better camera [TS]

  line on the get about ABC was going on [TS]

  vacation and she wants to have good [TS]

  pictures just like our cameras up to the [TS]

  task I think our cameras plenty of the [TS]

  task but she disagrees so I don't wanna [TS]

  buy no camera but I know Marco rents [TS]

  camera so i asked him about his the [TS]

  camera rental service that he uses and [TS]

  he gave me the URL and suggested a [TS]

  camera that we should rent because we [TS]

  didn't want something as big as Marcus [TS]

  Marcus is not big it's not as big as [TS]

  like that 5dr likes it's not like a [TS]

  giant a full-frame DSLR but yeah it is [TS]

  about as big as a mirrorless camera can [TS]

  get and still be a mirrorless camera [TS]

  still it's so full frame but it doesn't [TS]

  have the mirrors in it to add some [TS]

  clarity here since everybody will be [TS]

  asking the site that I recommended you [TS]

  rent from his lens there are [TS]

  a couple other sites that's the 1 i've [TS]

  used a lot over like same here [TS]

  she's I don't know maybe over a decade [TS]

  it i've used for a long time they've [TS]

  been great no complaints I've rented [TS]

  both lenses an entire cameras from [TS]

  they've been great land this [TS]

  is not a sponsorship the camera i [TS]

  recommended that you rent is the sony [TS]

  a6300 added it is Sony's new high-end [TS]

  but still crop sensor mirrorless camera [TS]

  runs a little thing like 1,200 bucks [TS]

  something in that range [TS]

  it's it's a very very good camera it's [TS]

  as bad as good as you can get without [TS]

  being a full-frame sensor the camera [TS]

  that i have is the sony a7r to which is [TS]

  a full-frame sensor is a lot more money [TS]

  but is a lot bigger and a lot higher [TS]

  quality images but the day 6300 that I [TS]

  had John rent is incredibly good and i [TS]

  would say if you're looking for [TS]

  America's camera in the like thousand [TS]

  dollar range that seems like it would be [TS]

  a really it should be very high on your [TS]

  list [TS]

  that said I haven't actually used this [TS]

  is all based on review info experience [TS]

  with other sony camera so John how is [TS]

  the a 1600 well looking at it compared [TS]

  to your camera i was surprised to see [TS]

  that there are a couple specs where the [TS]

  smaller lesser camera is better for [TS]

  instance number of photos it can take [TS]

  per second for burst mode is like double [TS]

  the maybe even triple than the highest [TS]

  setting [TS]

  what yours does and i think it had my [TS]

  don't know these texts me like that [TS]

  number of areas of phase detection for [TS]

  auto focus was higher on this thing like [TS]

  this is a couple of attributes make me [TS]

  think this camera in this sensor came [TS]

  out after yours is that the case they [TS]

  did yeah and also when you have a [TS]

  smaller ND i came out i think it was [TS]

  like six months or maybe a year after [TS]

  mine and well yeah I bet between six and [TS]

  nine months i think after month and also [TS]

  when you have a so full frame sensor is [TS]

  a lot larger it's I think it's sixty [TS]

  percent larger by area something like [TS]

  that has double the megapixels two years [TS]

  4224 so it's close to double right right [TS]

  and so when you have a larger sensor and [TS]

  you have more pixels it is it is much [TS]

  harder to make the surrounding [TS]

  electronics able to deal with the sensor [TS]

  dumping like a hundred photos a second [TS]

  off of it and so usually the smaller [TS]

  sensors will have higher slo-mo video [TS]

  frame rates and higher bursts per second [TS]

  capacity simply because there's a lot [TS]

  less data deal to deal with and that has [TS]

  to be pulled off that sensor and the [TS]

  reason we weren't looking at marcos [TS]

  camera specifically is not particularly [TS]

  because it's too expensive because all i [TS]

  do is we're going to rent it but just [TS]

  because it's big and you know we're [TS]

  going from as much smaller it's all [TS]

  relative of all much smaller much [TS]

  lighter Cameron on interchangeable lens [TS]

  camera always have super zooms and [TS]

  they're all made of plastics a very [TS]

  light [TS]

  and they're they're small and you're [TS]

  gonna be walking all over Europe maybe [TS]

  you don't want to go right from a small [TS]

  light camera to something that's bigger [TS]

  market again it's not as big as a as a [TS]

  full-frame DSLR but still pretty big and [TS]

  that whether the magnesium aluminum body [TS]

  is not as heavy is like a steel body or [TS]

  something but it's way heavier than a [TS]

  plastic one [TS]

  so this is a kind of a good choice for [TS]

  like it's going to take good pictures [TS]

  but it's really it's a very small body [TS]

  like it's so small that a lot of the [TS]

  lens is like comic like a lot of the [TS]

  sony looks like they want the NEX series [TS]

  and all that they always look like the [TS]

  lens was too big for the body because so [TS]

  many maybes very small it's what you can [TS]

  do with mirrorless cameras and very [TS]

  small looking bodies with pretty good [TS]

  sensors in them sometimes to a fault is [TS]

  my brother has one of the earlier so [TS]

  amazing it was very often difficult to [TS]

  hold them like to find a place where you [TS]

  could grip them and Sony was making them [TS]

  kind of like the PlayStation controllers [TS]

  like little pieces of art made of like [TS]

  conical section is an ideal solid stuff [TS]

  instead of saying no you have to have to [TS]

  make it grippy so that's why when i use [TS]

  marcos camera when I first saw it I was [TS]

  happy to see that Sony has learned hey [TS]

  you should put grippy stuff on the part [TS]

  where you grip it like nice grippy [TS]

  rubber you know like camera grip stuff [TS]

  if you make the whole thing is smooth [TS]

  beautiful rectangle with a little bulge [TS]

  it falls out of your hand and you're set [TS]

  so the ac360 like a shrunken version of [TS]

  Marcos is very small [TS]

  it's still relatively heavy but most of [TS]

  the weight is in the lenses if you use a [TS]

  larger lens lenses i got was that the [TS]

  silly little kit lens that comes with [TS]

  which is like a everybody was like 15 to [TS]

  50 or something power zoom like that [TS]

  yeah something like that it's a it's a [TS]

  it's a very small zoom range is a very [TS]

  compact lens and it doesn't seem to be [TS]

  very good and I got a 50 millimeter [TS]

  prime and I got a what was it 30 to 140 [TS]

  to 150 him all these were sony branded [TS]

  lenses that's another possibility with [TS]

  these things is that supposedly the sony [TS]

  can take third-party lenses and do auto [TS]

  focus on them but Marcos has the [TS]

  advantage that all the image [TS]

  stabilization stuff is in the body not [TS]

  in the lens is this correct I'm not [TS]

  that's right well it's both I mean the [TS]

  lot of the lenses have it but but yet it [TS]

  mine has in body stabilization right and [TS]

  this one doesn't so realize somewhat on [TS]

  its ability to work with lens [TS]

  but as a bunch of adapters for the [TS]

  lenses stuff anyway just got so many [TS]

  lenses and use the vacation normally on [TS]

  my long island vacations I take pictures [TS]

  and rest of the family hanging around [TS]

  the beach but i also take a lot of [TS]

  pictures of my family playing in the [TS]

  ocean and when I take those pictures i'm [TS]

  usually up to my knees or my waist in [TS]

  the ocean and the ocean waves in the [TS]

  surf and that's not a really good place [TS]

  to be with an expensive camera [TS]

  I've always assumed that one year the [TS]

  wave will get me and i will drop my [TS]

  camera but as I don't know we're going [TS]

  on five years ten years so far has not [TS]

  gotten me and the streak continues but i [TS]

  plan to not even bring the fancy camera [TS]

  to the ocean because I was like well you [TS]

  know i'll use that one for all the [TS]

  pictures except the ocean pictures and [TS]

  also by the way my super zoom is 600 [TS]

  millimeter zoom it's ridiculous like it [TS]

  helps me get when the surface like far [TS]

  out [TS]

  I can be up to my knees and they can be [TS]

  away for I can still get close-ups oh [TS]

  really i really like my camera my [TS]

  superstar by the way is the canon fz200 [TS]

  but when it came down to it I taking so [TS]

  many pictures with the sony I didn't [TS]

  want to leave at home so I brought to [TS]

  the beach with me in fact that both [TS]

  cameras to the beach I took a bunch of [TS]

  pictures with my other camera like you [TS]

  know what I could probably take a few of [TS]

  the sony may go a little deeper and [TS]

  makeup money's going to let you know i [TS]

  did the main thing was holding back on [TS]

  sunday with the zoom is just not that [TS]

  was all hundred and five millimeters [TS]

  it's not it wasn't getting me close [TS]

  enough it was so some of the pictures [TS]

  are kind of already but then he gets 24 [TS]

  megapixels compared to whatever 12 or [TS]

  whatever my other thing is I could drop [TS]

  a lot of them to get the same image [TS]

  quality out of it but I kept it out of [TS]

  the ocean [TS]

  I think I got a couple of drops of water [TS]

  splashed on it but none on the lens I'm [TS]

  pretty good at staying away from all [TS]

  that and protecting the camera and the [TS]

  results are really nice and really liked [TS]

  it and she's definitely gonna bring it [TS]

  on vacation the only decision I have now [TS]

  is whether we're going to rent it again [TS]

  for her vacation or just buy it [TS]

  yeah i mean so first of all I should [TS]

  point out that lens rentals has an [TS]

  incredibly broad insurance to add on [TS]

  that you can buy so that would cover i [TS]

  think it would cover your ocean fears [TS]

  that you have to pay ten percent still I [TS]

  paid for like whatever the most [TS]

  expensive insurance was against damage [TS]

  and theft but even if the worst happens [TS]

  you still have to pay ten percent and I [TS]

  had like was like a six-hundred-dollar [TS]

  lens $150 lands a hundred-dollar lens [TS]

  that [TS]

  and a thousand-dollar body or whatever [TS]

  soda ten percent of that is still [TS]

  something I didn't want to pay so how [TS]

  many wins did you say you rented just [TS]

  three just the prime zoom and the little [TS]

  kit lens thing because i didn't know [TS]

  which one I would end up using more of [TS]

  it as it turns out what I ended up using [TS]

  was almost never use the little kit lens [TS]

  you think because I had to optically [TS]

  better lenses with me and the indoors i [TS]

  use the prime because it was the it was [TS]

  a tough one point it was the one that [TS]

  took the best light pictures & outdoors [TS]

  i use the zoom even though is relatively [TS]

  huge just because it gave me the most [TS]

  flexibility and in all fairness your [TS]

  battle between like the reach of the [TS]

  super zoom and the quality of the of the [TS]

  nice camera in all fairness I did [TS]

  recommend that you consider the sony [TS]

  rx10 which is it's super zoom but it's [TS]

  not doesn't have the same reaches this [TS]

  one like I'm gonna get a super zoom not [TS]

  gonna get one that stops at 400 or [TS]

  something whatever they are extended to [TS]

  maybe does go to 600 or some other [TS]

  aspect of it was worse than my camera I [TS]

  think the most recent one actually might [TS]

  go out that far it got a pretty big [TS]

  update run but it doesn't it's not have [TS]

  2.3 the whole zoom range like like this [TS]

  thing is no that's pretty rare I mean it [TS]

  basically to achieve that you have to [TS]

  have a very small sensor now all them i [TS]

  do so anyway I'm like this it is not not [TS]

  only is there no sony superzoom that i [TS]

  can get at any price that I feel like [TS]

  has better feature set university better [TS]

  than the 1i have but there's no [TS]

  panasonic on the panasonic updated my [TS]

  camera to and made it worse like from [TS]

  for my purposes but anyway be that [TS]

  there's a problem with the zoom lens is [TS]

  the problem all the sony lenses is that [TS]

  I don't know the ones get expensive [TS]

  really fast [TS]

  there's no sort of maybe I could talk to [TS]

  you about what lens i should have [TS]

  actually buy this thing but there's no [TS]

  reasonably expensive zoom lens above [TS]

  like a hundred something only their [TS]

  resume like forget about 600 forget [TS]

  about 400 i think i can get like a 404 [TS]

  twelve-thousand dollars that's something [TS]

  yeah well the moment so you know the [TS]

  problems like what you're looking at [TS]

  here is you're looking at a lens system [TS]

  that spans from prosumer to really like [TS]

  low to mid-range pro [TS]

  the sony full-frame sensors like that [TS]

  the a 7-series have become very popular [TS]

  very quickly among high end users and [TS]

  that you know we can have lots of [TS]

  debates over like whether they are [TS]

  considered pro cameras or not but it's [TS]

  kinda like you know asking like whether [TS]

  the ipad is a computer like you know [TS]

  whether or not their pro cameras by some [TS]

  people's definitions they are still [TS]

  being used by a lot of pros for [TS]

  professional use it doesn't really [TS]

  matter whether you think they're for a [TS]

  camera or not because they are just [TS]

  incredibly good incredibly compelling it [TS]

  for a lot of reasons anyway so the [TS]

  problem is that when you have these [TS]

  large very dense very high-quality [TS]

  sensors you need really good lens glass [TS]

  in front of those to be able to resolve [TS]

  enough detail to really take advantage [TS]

  of what those sensors have to offer and [TS]

  so when you can look at your little [TS]

  super zoom zooms and super zooms you [TS]

  know they they sacrifice a lot of image [TS]

  quality and optical quality to be able [TS]

  to put a large zoom range into a [TS]

  relatively compact and relatively [TS]

  inexpensive body that's that's not [TS]

  really possible to you know it's like [TS]

  something has to give their if you're [TS]

  gonna have to serve a very large nice [TS]

  sensor with lots of megapixels of detail [TS]

  and not have a bunch of distortion in [TS]

  the images I mean some of that you can [TS]

  correct with software but you know still [TS]

  try to avoid it you can then you have to [TS]

  either shorten the range in order to [TS]

  have less glass that needs to be in [TS]

  place to get that high-quality image [TS]

  onto this high-quality sensor without [TS]

  distorting or you have to put just a ton [TS]

  of glass in front of that thing [TS]

  tons of like highly engineered you know [TS]

  lens elements and is very expensive very [TS]

  large very heavy lenses and so it's just [TS]

  as this trade-off between all these [TS]

  different factors of like well if you [TS]

  want to have something that is small and [TS]

  light and probably cheap and also has [TS]

  big zoom range [TS]

  it can't have good optical quality and [TS]

  if you want something that is small with [TS]

  top-quality you should really be [TS]

  probably using a prime if you want [TS]

  something large with good optical [TS]

  quality and and you have a lot on the [TS]

  unlimited budget and you know you don't [TS]

  mind carrying his giant heavy lenses the [TS]

  lens you see in the new high-end sony [TS]

  every lineup that's the market they're [TS]

  targeting the targeting like the Canon L [TS]

  Series [TS]

  and stuff and whatever that the nikon I [TS]

  figured with my compro ones are called [TS]

  they're targeting that market like pro [TS]

  photographers the people you see on the [TS]

  sidelines of like sports games the giant [TS]

  white lenses like they're targeting that [TS]

  market now because they're their cameras [TS]

  are so good to turn to be using that [TS]

  kind of industry which is pretty [TS]

  impressive for mirrorless to begin with [TS]

  but anyway so for what you're looking [TS]

  for your you should probably honestly [TS]

  consider the rx10 they're super zoom or [TS]

  at least only use your only consider [TS]

  using the sony for four occasions in [TS]

  which you don't really need massive [TS]

  reach of of a telephoto zoom because [TS]

  that's just like you're looking at a [TS]

  market that is designed for very [TS]

  different needs and optimizing for very [TS]

  different factors in that trade-off of [TS]

  lens design you're trying to get out of [TS]

  that market like like you know a 16 [TS]

  millimeter lens like try to find a [TS]

  second millimeter Canon L lens and you [TS]

  will see quite how you not quite what [TS]

  this what this kind of quality was kind [TS]

  of market is like it's you know they get [TS]

  pretty ridiculous pretty fast i would [TS]

  say this is kind of like your mac pro vs [TS]

  gaming pc think you kind of want the [TS]

  impossible i have added this high-end [TS]

  thing but what you really actually need [TS]

  is a low anthem now there's no 2000 a [TS]

  mac pro quo woman that's 2,000 a micro [TS]

  is perfect because I did everything but [TS]

  now I'm like what i learned the vacation [TS]

  is that I'm willing to give up the zoom [TS]

  range for the better quality because [TS]

  first of all with the Prime this can [TS]

  take pictures and doors that nothing [TS]

  else I have to take was the reason I [TS]

  never wanted to get high on camera [TS]

  because you get you started your like [TS]

  well now I can't go back how can you go [TS]

  back from using you know a reasonably [TS]

  good camera for indoor photography that [TS]

  you can't go back because do you not at [TS]

  all the pictures other pictures are [TS]

  garbage indoors because there's no light [TS]

  and your phone can't get the light and [TS]

  nothing else can and you know so and [TS]

  then at the beach when I had the choice [TS]

  between both cameras that have them both [TS]

  right there by using both of them [TS]

  eventually by the last day we are at the [TS]

  ocean didn't even take out the panasonic [TS]

  voltages sony the whole time you know [TS]

  and by that i forgot [TS]

  then I was brave enough to go in the [TS]

  water with it and I didn't mind the fact [TS]

  that i was a little bit farther away [TS]

  because the the you know had more [TS]

  megapixels and I could crop them i [TS]

  really needed to but in the end even if [TS]

  I was a little bit farther away the [TS]

  increased image quality was worth it to [TS]

  me [TS]

  I mean so maybe like a little bit bigger [TS]

  zoom American you know I'll shop around [TS]

  like I'm looking series lenses now [TS]

  they're 500 millimeters you're right [TS]

  that the signal is when the lens is [TS]

  white Runaways probably like a rhyme [TS]

  about with the lens is white the price [TS]

  is not right that 500 millimeter at for [TS]

  gsm whatever those letters stand for [TS]

  12,900 and otters so i don't think i'll [TS]

  be skipping that lens there's also the [TS]

  size of a truck like you can it's also a [TS]

  bad sign when the lens itself is the [TS]

  thing that amount of the tripod and not [TS]

  the camera because of a camera just [TS]

  hanging off the end of lens [TS]

  these are all bad signs for your budget [TS]

  with 300 millimeter 14 only 7500 anyway [TS]

  probably just end up getting this camera [TS]

  with the kit lens and a prime and then [TS]

  save up for resume because I mean I [TS]

  enjoyed it that much I get it was it was [TS]

  heavier but not that much heavier and [TS]

  the socks size wise it was ok for [TS]

  economically and you I was I felt [TS]

  something cameras have a long way to go [TS]

  like every I recognize this is a big [TS]

  improvement over the old sony says that [TS]

  my brother had an older one like this is [TS]

  this is better doesn't have a [TS]

  touchscreen which would help but camera [TS]

  manufacturers need to need to get over [TS]

  the idea that the the best way to [TS]

  arrange all your options is in a big [TS]

  linear list over a series of screens [TS]

  like this one has tabs and then within [TS]

  each tabs there's a number line like [TS]

  search results that has seven screens is [TS]

  a bunch of texts things like that's not [TS]

  it it's organized kind of but you can [TS]

  imagine a much better UI to organize the [TS]

  scriptures i can never remember where [TS]

  the hell's the feature this thing like [TS]

  they weren't organized in a logical way [TS]

  than like these are the camera settings [TS]

  through the ones under gear these are [TS]

  settings but not camera-related set it's [TS]

  just too terrible organization but at [TS]

  least we've gotten on the BMW pages said [TS]

  look we put a bunch of buttons on this [TS]

  thing and most cameras do this but [TS]

  apparently some reason bad about this in [TS]

  the past we have a bunch of buttons you [TS]

  can program the whole do anything you [TS]

  want we printed something next to the [TS]

  buttons thats have little to no [TS]

  abbreviations to tell you what they do [TS]

  by default but if you don't like that [TS]

  you can make anybody do anything for the [TS]

  most part which is another business [TS]

  innovation what you want this button to [TS]

  scroll through this list of literally 70 [TS]

  options and finally think it's really [TS]

  terrible at everything cameras want to [TS]

  do on-camera like there's a tablet saps [TS]

  just know Sony there are no apps that i [TS]

  want to run [TS]

  your camera to take pictures may be on [TS]

  camera convert to jpeg which by the way [TS]

  that doesn't even do is just the wrong [TS]

  as you have to pull off but everything [TS]

  else [TS]

  wait what it doesn't convert to you [TS]

  can't do like in-camera conversion where [TS]

  you shoot in raw and then filled with it [TS]

  and then do a conversion 2.jpg before [TS]

  you pull it off oh okay I see you mean [TS]

  you can shoot j+ for all you should roll [TS]

  out your JPEG but a lot of cameras have [TS]

  a thing where you shoot in raw and that [TS]

  on the camera screw with the whatever [TS]

  you're going to screw with to get that [TS]

  you know pull out the detail from the [TS]

  shadows and blah blah blah and then just [TS]

  pull off jpegs that are burned in like [TS]

  that why would you want to do that [TS]

  ok let's save to save room that you know [TS]

  because that's another thing like now I [TS]

  understand why my brother has the [TS]

  problem that he can't use iCloud library [TS]

  because he has more than one terabyte of [TS]

  my photos and why is that more than one [TS]

  terabyte photos because he shoots wrong [TS]

  on this little sunny and so yeah the [TS]

  each of these rows like 25 megsie [TS]

  compared to like yeah 3 or 4 Meg's in [TS]

  jpg and even smaller and so I I feel the [TS]

  64 gig card and a little bit of another [TS]

  card [TS]

  yeah i mean in all fairness buying a [TS]

  larger SD card is probably a lot easier [TS]

  and they're pretty cheap now then having [TS]

  to fiddle with like taking up space on [TS]

  the camera because the other thing too [TS]

  is like a larger SD card is is a [TS]

  credible easily you know pretty easily [TS]

  thing what is not so easy is to get [TS]

  these cameras battery so last very long [TS]

  when the screens are on and expense I [TS]

  mean that's one thing like Sony i love [TS]

  my camera I love almost everything about [TS]

  it but the battery life is embarrassing [TS]

  and I have like all these different [TS]

  power saving tips like it has Wi-Fi but [TS]

  you can put it in airplane mode from the [TS]

  wife III did that immediately as soon as [TS]

  I think this out-of-the-box yeah my [TS]

  camera has always been an airplane mode [TS]

  hit me because the battery like this so [TS]

  bad i do all the help I can get it to [TS]

  turn the back screen on sunny day mode [TS]

  you have yours I'm sure you don't have [TS]

  yours in sunny day mode because sunday [TS]

  morning reads means max brightness on [TS]

  the screen that's what any of that [TS]

  because it was a sunny day at the beach [TS]

  otherwise I couldn't see a thing and i [TS]

  would use if you find a long time I i [TS]

  usually when I'm shooting i will almost [TS]

  always be using the optical viewfinder [TS]

  just because I prefer the additional [TS]

  detail and I'm able to see just because [TS]

  it is closer to my and there's an [TS]

  the outside light coming in and [TS]

  everything else so anyway so yeah I mean [TS]

  I honestly i recommend possibly giving [TS]

  up on the idea zooms for the most part [TS]

  because honestly like the trade-off is [TS]

  so big in terms of you know quality or [TS]

  size and and money like like you can get [TS]

  zooms that are you know and this is [TS]

  there's only very few of them that this [TS]

  is true for but you can get zooms that [TS]

  are about as good as as most primes they [TS]

  do exist but their massive heavy and [TS]

  very expensive and there aren't that [TS]

  many of them most zooms you're giving up [TS]

  a lot of quality to get that soon [TS]

  flexibility and you know if you think [TS]

  about like when you shoot with your [TS]

  iphone you have a prime on there except [TS]

  for the next you know large iphone plus [TS]

  it's gonna have the optical zoom but so [TS]

  you know when you shoot with your iphone [TS]

  you're shooting with effectively a [TS]

  35-millimeter prime and you've been [TS]

  shooting with that 35-millimeter primary [TS]

  iphone for the last like a seven years [TS]

  or whatever [TS]

  however long as well you haven't John [TS]

  everyone else haha you know it's been [TS]

  awhile and and we've gotten used to that [TS]

  and it's fine and it turns out that when [TS]

  you just have like a decent prime in the [TS]

  wide to normal range you can get pretty [TS]

  much all of your photography done that [TS]

  way but you know most of the time and [TS]

  it's great and the trade-off is worth it [TS]

  like well if you have a prime here that [TS]

  you can make this a much smaller and [TS]

  cheaper and have higher quality and [TS]

  everything [TS]

  same thing is true for any size camera [TS]

  anybody listening if you have a an SLR [TS]

  anything with interchangeable lenses if [TS]

  you don't have a prime lens which means [TS]

  it's fixed one focal length of you that [TS]

  you can't zoom it's zoom with your feet [TS]

  if you have if you don't have a prime [TS]

  lens whatever camera system you own get [TS]

  the cheap 50-millimeter prime lens for [TS]

  it there is it is almost every camera [TS]

  system has something like this where it [TS]

  is 50 millimeter or whatever the [TS]

  equivalent is for your sensor size [TS]

  usually it's f 1.8 and usually it's like [TS]

  a hundred bucks in that range it's it's [TS]

  fairly inexpensive for allen's the [TS]

  optical quality you can get out of those [TS]

  is it just kicks the butts of zoom [TS]

  lenses it so and you know that looked [TS]

  like you were saying earlier John you [TS]

  that's the one you said you were saying [TS]

  you were using indoors because when [TS]

  you're indoors or when you're you know [TS]

  when it [TS]

  not that much light you can really get a [TS]

  lot of light in there and even you have [TS]

  lots of light the sharpness and the [TS]

  color and then just the optical quality [TS]

  that you get out of these lenses is [TS]

  amazing because they can be so much [TS]

  simpler than resume like just there's [TS]

  fewer elements the elements you know [TS]

  they can afford to get higher quality [TS]

  optics in there at that price point when [TS]

  you don't have all those elements to to [TS]

  zoom things are to have a weird [TS]

  we're perspective or the extreme you [TS]

  know wider extreme narrow primes are [TS]

  just so nice like I found that even when [TS]

  I have a big camera i spend the vast [TS]

  majority of my time using primes and [TS]

  even when i've used zooms I mostly have [TS]

  not liked the pictures that i get from [TS]

  them the primes are just so much better [TS]

  and so I I urge anybody with cameras out [TS]

  there to consider just shooting with [TS]

  crimes because it really is incredible [TS]

  and there are situations where you were [TS]

  you quote need a zoom but I bet there's [TS]

  a lot fewer of those and you expect and [TS]

  for a lot of camera owners you basically [TS]

  never had the basement ever have those [TS]

  and a lot of those can be covered by [TS]

  renting yeah so we're going on a trip [TS]

  soon and I have rented a lens from once [TS] i did so few days ago [TS]

  because i also used on trend also [TS]

  probably less frequently i rented a 35 [TS]

  100 millimeter zoom for micro four [TS]

  thirds camera and I did that because I [TS]

  want to be able to be a creeper he's [TS]

  clearly i want to be able to capture [TS]

  what I mean by that is that with my own [TS]

  family Oh God taken out of context that [TS]

  sounds terrible but that's good to know [TS]

  what i mean by that is so if we are all [TS]

  at a beach or for all in in a rented [TS]

  house together so it's only people i [TS]

  know i don't want to have to get up in [TS]

  somebody's face in order to take a [TS]

  really good picture that i want to be [TS]

  able to be across the room where they [TS]

  don't even know I'm taking a picture so [TS]

  it's a lot more natural but that being [TS]

  said generally speaking the only lens [TS]

  that has ever on my camera is a 25 [TS]

  millimeter I have no idea what the [TS]

  equivalent of that is in a SLR but it's [TS]

  a 25 millimeter i think it is a 50 [TS]

  equivalent it your pictures look like 50 [TS]

  pictures okay so it's a 20-millimeter f [TS]

  1.4 that Sean blanc had recommended and [TS]

  it is very expensive it was like six [TS]

  hundred dollars but it is a unbelievably [TS]

  phenomenally good lens to my eye and [TS]

  don't know crap about the stuff and if I [TS]

  ever take a decent picture it's because [TS]

  I've got lucky and because of this lens [TS]

  and I rented this zoom just like Marco [TS]

  said because i want to have something to [TS]

  take the pictures you know maybe in the [TS]

  surf or something like John was [TS]

  describing or or take pictures from [TS]

  across the room but generally speaking I [TS]

  never bother with a zoom and I do have [TS]

  the kids oom for this Olympus camera [TS]

  that I have and it's freaking terrible i [TS]

  can't give up on resume that like the [TS]

  one I was using this is a cheap so much [TS]

  like six hundred dollars 18 2 105 [TS]

  millimeter sony zoom lens it's for its [TS]

  for the aps-c format is not a full-frame [TS]

  a lens so maybe that's why it's cheaper [TS]

  and I was really happy with the pictures [TS]

  it took outdoors in the bright sunlight [TS]

  on the beach in the same reason cases [TS]

  that I'm most of the time I like to have [TS]

  candid pictures and either i don't want [TS]

  to or can't get close so like people are [TS]

  all around i can't get close to them if [TS]

  i do they start acting weird so i have [TS]

  to go over there for far out on the [TS]

  water like they see you coming with the [TS]

  camera and they all turn and smile and [TS]

  ham it up and I like candid pictures [TS]

  better and so I can capture them like [TS]

  the hundred million resume is enough for [TS]

  like in it [TS]

  outdoor gathering of people to get close [TS]

  enough to get groups of people as if [TS]

  you're right next some of that being on [TS]

  next time the surface a little bit [TS]

  little bit low but again i can i can [TS]

  crop and I mean to my eye [TS]

  obviously the the aperture wasn't like [TS]

  it was on the prime likes you couldn't [TS]

  you know open up super wide and get the [TS]

  entire you know background nice and [TS]

  blurred and everything sharpen and maybe [TS]

  that and I had you know I did little to [TS]

  f 1.8 50-millimeter prime that tomorrow [TS]

  starting at cheap but good but I mostly [TS]

  outdoors i use the big zoom and i [TS]

  thought i would be bothered by how darn [TS]

  big it is but it was i was able to [TS]

  wrangle it fairly easily and I felt like [TS]

  it was worth it like that's that's lens [TS]

  believe about the end up using the most [TS]

  i thought of using the prime minister [TS]

  but I end up using this fairly large [TS]

  doing the most so I don't want to maybe [TS]

  i'll just get that same lens only six [TS]

  hundred dollars but in the beginning I [TS]

  probably just get that the Prime and and [TS]

  the kit lens our mail by the body [TS]

  without lens and just get the prime for [TS]

  it just to save some money i don't have [TS]

  to decide yet responsive this week by [TS]

  Casper and obsessively engineered [TS]

  mattress and shockingly fair price to [TS]

  Casper calm / ATP and use code ATP for [TS]

  fifty dollars towards [TS]

  your mattress Casper creative one [TS]

  perfect mattress sold directly to you [TS]

  eliminating Commission driven inflated [TS]

  prices at mattress stores this [TS]

  award-winning mattress was developed [TS]

  in-house by Casper has a sleek design is [TS]

  delivered in a remarkably small box you [TS]

  can get it up narrow stairs almost like [TS]

  a small file cabinet box and now in [TS]

  addition of the mattress they also offer [TS]

  adaptive pillow and soft breathable [TS]

  sheets Casper is revolutionising the [TS]

  high markup mattress industry by cutting [TS]

  the cost of dealing with resellers and [TS]

  showrooms and pass the savings directly [TS]

  onto you an in-house team of engineers [TS]

  spent thousands of hours developing the [TS]

  Casper mattress it combines springy [TS]

  latex and supportive memory foams for [TS]

  sleep service with just the right sink [TS]

  and just the right pounds plus it's [TS]

  breathable design sleep school to help [TS]

  you regulate your temperature throughout [TS]

  the night especially important in the [TS]

  summertime now the catcher mattress is a [TS]

  shockingly fair price premium mattresses [TS]

  usually cost fifteen hundred dollars or [TS]

  more and that can be a lot more but [TS]

  Catherine mattress cost just 500 for [TS]

  twin 754 full 854 queen and 954 King [TS]

  these prices are awesome for premium [TS]

  mattress that's like half the price of a [TS]

  similar quality mattress and every [TS]

  Castle mattress is made right here in [TS]

  America now Casper has made buying [TS]

  mattresses online easy as you might [TS]

  think why would you want to buy matters [TS]

  online how do you know if it's going to [TS]

  be any good for you [TS]

  well they have free delivery and free [TS]

  returns with a 100 night home trial it [TS]

  it's very very simple there's no risk [TS]

  here if you don't love it they will pick [TS]

  it up at your house and give you a full [TS]

  refund within a hundred Knights [TS]

  understand the importance is truly [TS]

  sleeping on a mattress before you commit [TS]

  especially considering to be spending a [TS]

  third of your life on it so get yours [TS]

  today and try it for a hundred Knights [TS]

  in your own home free delivery and free [TS]

  returns if you don't like it with home [TS]

  pick up completely risk-free go to [TS]

  Casper calm / ATP and use code ATP for [TS]

  fifty dollars towards your mattress [TS]

  thanks for Catherine for sponsoring our [TS]

  show [TS]

  our days Marco of lording over John and [TS]

  feeling superior to him I'm sad to say [TS]

  they're over because John now has a blue [TS]

  checkmark oh I was afraid you're going [TS]

  to see you finally got a new computer [TS]

  oh god no come on let's talk everyday kc [TS]

  ya John congrats on your blue checkmark [TS]

  my friend my computer still better than [TS]

  yours too crazy [TS]

  mmm is it doesn't crash that was waiting [TS]

  for that's why I didn't say anything [TS]

  because I knew that was coming before we [TS]

  go to check marks what is the status of [TS]

  the computer has has the problem [TS]

  recurred it has not and i haven't lost [TS]

  power for let's see six days 14 hours 20 [TS]

  minutes still stock ramen it is your [TS]

  computer plugged into the UPS yes no [TS]

  it's not because you want to reboot it [TS]

  that's what because I wanted to I wanted [TS]

  to keep this damn run going [TS]

  I it has not lost power is not rebooted [TS]

  it say does still have the OEM ram [TS]

  minutes so i am still perhaps perhaps [TS]

  unfairly I'm still convinced it's the [TS]

  mac sales ram ok [TS]

  no you should get a get on getting that [TS]

  replace then I did you well I wanted [TS]

  memtest x64 thing that does like the [TS]

  SuperDuper thorough ran tests i did not [TS]

  see six come on whatever side but that's [TS]

  what that's what i said in my head but [TS]

  my mouth did something different [TS]

  your section not a pc nerd every pc here [TS]

  knows that is what i said in my head but [TS]

  the words came out differently it's [TS]

  pronounced 1086 now what did I actually [TS]

  say that XD cool i was probably thinking [TS]

  uh you know the modern instruction set [TS]

  every hand a memory test [TS]

  so anyway the point is this is still [TS]

  going strong on the on the OEM ram and [TS]

  whenever this thing decides to reboot [TS]

  itself or I lose power text or after [TS]

  like two to four weeks I've decided what [TS]

  i consider to be a long enough run then [TS]

  at that point i will officially start [TS]

  the arm a process with Maxwell's didn't [TS]

  you have to install the the 10 whatever [TS]

  6 update recently the the really [TS]

  critical security updates with the image [TS]

  parsing i recall i know what you talk [TS]

  about our qualified it or not you should [TS]

  do that if you have yeah alright i'll i [TS]

  will see it maybe I'll just did not use [TS]

  my computer for the next week [TS]

  it's what I don't have to reboot it I [TS]

  don't see what happens but anyway I so [TS]

  to come back on point John you are [TS]

  verified congratulations you are a [TS]

  sellout just like me [TS]

  we are not good enough like Marco to [TS]

  have had received our check marks [TS]

  without solicitation in all fairness I [TS]

  did basically asked for it just not [TS]

  doing it [TS]

  yeah yeah I guess it's just the normal [TS]

  version of the same thing but most [TS]

  importantly now we are the fully [TS]

  verified podcast obviously so as I [TS]

  analog for that matter any more fully [TS]

  verified podcaster happening now let's [TS]

  just put there by the way you know so i [TS]

  got my check mark 42 did not get his [TS]

  brown did not get hers so there's still [TS]

  day [TS]

  Renee didn't get it nope use your [TS]

  generator just hasn't heard back to know [TS]

  he got rejected rejected don't the [TS]

  world's coming to and what the hell's [TS]

  going on anyway still massive injustice [TS]

  in this world there is for those of us [TS]

  who don't actually need it on this [TS]

  podcast guess what we got it makes no [TS]

  sense [TS]

  oh and people ask me if I'm going to [TS]

  change my bio that I complained about [TS]

  mostly in reqtest about having to write [TS]

  this silly bio now I'm afraid to change [TS]

  because I'm afraid of change all this [TS]

  magic mark so i decided to leave the [TS]

  Siller silly embarrassing bio there [TS]

  forever or maybe to like give it a year [TS]

  and then it's safe for me to change it i [TS]

  don't know [TS]

  so do i have to be influenced or forever [TS]

  I think you can change it i just i'm not [TS]

  sure if you make it go away if they'll [TS]

  get upset because part of what you have [TS]

  to do to have a right exact mark is to [TS]

  is to have a bio the funny thing about [TS]

  this whole experience for me is that I [TS]

  have apparently become I don't know how [TS]

  to put this maybe I I've become like the [TS]

  litmus test for like Oh Casey got [TS]

  verified of course insert person here [TS]

  should totally be verified so I saw that [TS]

  about Renee is all that about federico [TS]

  dude [TS]

  Casey got verified little bit worse this [TS]

  person should be verified so that that's [TS]

  my new claim to fame I should change my [TS]

  bio I'm that guy you couldn't believe [TS]

  got verified that's me [TS]

  you just have to find someone who you [TS]

  think is even less deserving of being [TS]

  verified and then you just point to them [TS]

  yeah right whatever but yes I get to see [TS]

  those tweets flyby like everything have [TS]

  every few hours dude Renee didn't get [TS]

  his thing I can't believe that Casey got [TS]

  one call my favorite things like Howard [TS]

  people are [TS]

  just like back and insulting you like [TS]

  this they feel the need to add to [TS]

  mention you to average actually except [TS]

  that that's what sure like okay if you [TS]

  want to think that I mean knowing me [TS]

  i'll probably find it an advantage [TS]

  research because hello little least have [TS]

  the decency not to not to mention me [TS]

  oh yeah ok so we are the fully verified [TS]

  podcast and that's very exciting right [TS]

  moving on I where is tip these days [TS]

  Marco I don't know how to pronounce the [TS]

  more specific location however the [TS]

  general location is France [TS]

  fair enough yeah my dad took my wife is [TS]

  on vacation for the week so I am solo [TS]

  parenting this week how's that going on [TS]

  well I mean it's only been like three [TS]

  days so far so for these three days it's [TS]

  been totally fine but there's four more [TS]

  something like that yeah so there's [TS]

  still a while ago i'm mainly finding it [TS]

  challenging that like like last night [TS]

  you know so is the last night was sunday [TS]

  night and he he's in he's in like a [TS]

  school day camp just like that you know [TS]

  de Kamp is preschool the summertime I i [TS]

  have to pack his lunch every day and I [TS]

  realized last night like a big part of [TS]

  what we pack is fruit of some kind like [TS]

  you know raspberries or strawberries or [TS]

  something and there was just nothing in [TS]

  the fridge we had none and he was [TS]

  already in bed [TS]

  it was like ten o'clock at night oh also [TS]

  Marco doesn't know where food comes from [TS]

  no I would usually comes from me going [TS]

  shopping for it but I can't leave the [TS]

  house with him that's your shopping with [TS]

  the kid [TS]

  imagine that yeah that's what we did [TS]

  today but yeah it's just there's just [TS]

  little things like that that you know [TS]

  like I had to realizing oh when you have [TS]

  two parents in the house one of them can [TS]

  leave and go go run an errand and you [TS]

  don't go to jail you know so it's it so [TS]

  it's been a slight learning experience [TS]

  like that but otherwise yeah things are [TS]

  going pretty feel like I've had it [TS]

  before alone just think is the longest [TS]

  span that we've ever had and see the [TS]

  chatroom see this is this is a rookie [TS]

  mistake here so a sip in the chat room [TS]

  has suggested that I go food shopping [TS]

  while he is a camp that is an [TS]

  interesting idea [TS]

  sip I thought of that however then after [TS]

  school in the six hours before he goes [TS]

  to bed [TS]

  that's one less thing we could do [TS]

  together [TS]

  we have a whole week here the whole week [TS]

  so we get any any area that i can run [TS]

  with him i'm going to run with him [TS]

  yep i know those fields and that [TS]

  actually segways someone nicely into a [TS]

  brief follow-up I wanted to discuss [TS]

  which was a friend of the show [TS]

  underscore David Smith came down to [TS]

  visit on Friday evening into Saturday [TS]

  morning we watch The Hunt for Red [TS]

  October together because it's one of the [TS]

  best movies the entire world come at me [TS]

  and then saturday morning which is I [TS]

  think you guys do sunday Marco but in [TS]

  the landless household we do a saturday [TS]

  morning into into naptime daddy time and [TS]

  Dave join me on this and we took his [TS]

  Tesla to cars and coffee [TS]

  it was underscore in Declan myself and [TS]

  we took the Tesla cars & coffee and it [TS]

  was funny because I had promised him [TS]

  that we would try to find the [TS]

  self-organizing group of Tesla's that [TS]

  always shows up there's typically three [TS]

  or four of them i even saw a Model X [TS]

  there two to one or two times ago which [TS]

  was surprising but anyway we showed up [TS]

  in the Tesla and i drove there which I [TS]

  was slightly perturbed by only because I [TS]

  felt like this was Dave's big moment and [TS]

  you know here it is you can get out of [TS]

  his car and be like yes well this is so [TS]

  not underscore style but yes look at me [TS]

  in my Tesla this is mine and I'm proud [TS]

  of it but instead it's me instead it was [TS]

  me who got out of the driver's seat and [TS]

  of course we we stepped out of the jar I [TS]

  stepped on the driver's seat within i [TS]

  kid you not 15 seconds somebody came [TS]

  running over to ask questions and I [TS]

  basically threw my hands in the air and [TS]

  wave them like I just don't get no I [TS]

  threw my hands in the air instead dude [TS]

  it's his car [TS]

  you should ask him about it but yeah it [TS]

  made quite a splash people quite liked [TS]

  it [TS]

  yeah we were packed in as you do because [TS]

  I'm not an animal and I was back in [TS]

  against maserati so it was pretty [TS]

  interesting but it was funny how many [TS]

  people were just completely impressed by [TS]

  and and interested in the Tesla and [TS]

  perhaps even more surprisingly really [TS]

  loved the rear jump seats they really [TS]

  thought three jumps were interesting to [TS]

  the point that I i think it was a kid it [TS]

  was like 15 18 year-old something like [TS]

  that to ask if he could jump in the [TS]

  jumpseat just to see how they have a [TS]

  fail how they felt which underscore [TS]

  because he's a nice man alive was like [TS]

  sure definitely definitely feel free but [TS]

  it was funny and underscore is is [TS]

  hysterical watching him do this because [TS]

  he's like the most easygoing guy [TS]

  meanwhile i wouldn't be able to hide the [TS]

  fact that my you know my plumage had [TS]

  come out in full force if you will if it [TS]

  were me but underscores just like [TS]

  announce the thing is he's just so much [TS]

  better than I am now he's way cooler [TS]

  than all of us yet pretty much what a [TS]

  nice car though I kind of a mad at him [TS]

  now because I've forgotten how much I [TS]

  hate my car i had forgotten how much I [TS]

  hate my car and then I drove his test [TS]

  again and now I hate my car again that [TS]

  you have a very nice car just the test [TS]

  was better i have a wonderful car truly [TS]

  do but a kind of test so nice i saw [TS]

  white m3 today and thought you know [TS]

  thanks buddy anyone or an older one that [TS]

  was the last generation the one that you [TS]

  like but it was the fucking door like [TS]

  converter i think it was convertible is [TS]

  at least two door so it's like the weird [TS]

  one snap question I know we're not [TS]

  really in the neutral part of the show [TS]

  but I have to ask friend friend of the [TS]

  show who will remain nameless has been [TS]

  debating between m2 and boxster s what [TS]

  do you think so with the caveat that [TS]

  driven either i would say I mean those [TS]

  are very different cars like the boxer [TS]

  is like you know it's convertible I [TS]

  assume right because the kid that came [TS]

  asking everyone so yes okay it's [TS]

  convertible it's probably smaller if I [TS]

  had to take a guess I would guess the [TS]

  box was probably more expensive it is [TS]

  why are you waffling there's an obvious [TS]

  answer air Marco finish the thought that [TS]

  I want to hear the obvious answer so get [TS]

  the m2 that's not it is not the answer [TS]

  the correct answer first of all don't [TS]

  get the new generation boxer like the [TS]

  one with the the turbo engine get the [TS]

  previous generation boxster if it's [TS]

  still on sales not get like it used one [TS]

  that's the obvious choice [TS]

  it's so much better than the m2 and [TS]

  every possible the car will make you [TS]

  happier because if you're shopping for [TS]

  him to or boxer you're not looking for [TS]

  like going something to all the [TS]

  groceries of the kids get the previous [TS]

  generation non turbo charged boxer well [TS]

  so again having driven none of these two [TS]

  cars and now the third about to mention [TS]

  why get the boxster when you can get the [TS]

  Cayman isn't the Cayman better in every [TS]

  way and has all the same advantage of [TS]

  the boxer this person once i Convertible [TS]

  obviously the shopping boxer mix [TS]

  convertible the top comes that's a big [TS]

  difference if you're shopping horrible [TS]

  you're not confused about whether you [TS]

  know [TS]

  you want to convert you want to [TS]

  convertible nobody wants a convertible [TS]

  people like them [TS]

  no no but it's not convertible it's it's [TS]

  one of those decisions that you should [TS]

  choose to sway people away from like no [TS]

  you trust me you don't want to [TS]

  convertible how their this well this [TS]

  person wants one and I think it's fine [TS]

  and the box the box was just a more [TS]

  special car yes it is more expensive the [TS]

  M two is a good car if you're shopping [TS]

  like em two verses m3 then we're gonna [TS]

  have a real discussion but it was them [TS]

  to vs. box or no contest boxer previous [TS]

  gen yeah i know you want to wear socks [TS]

  with sandals but trust me you don't want [TS]

  to wear socks with sandals you don't [TS]

  want to convertible convertibles are not [TS]

  sauce and fun experiences but I'm [TS]

  talking about like Jaguar convertible [TS]

  from the eighties that are going to leak [TS]

  water all over you and short out that [TS]

  modern convertibles are fine not there [TS]

  they're never find out about [TS]

  convertibles a fine car in general I'd [TS]

  really do like convertibles but yeah [TS]

  this particular individual let's just [TS]

  say that they're always on vacation so [TS]

  it would make sense for this particular [TS]

  individual to be shopping a convertible [TS]

  but anyway um yeah I was just curious [TS]

  like years ago in like 10 2005 I a [TS]

  friend of a friend had a Boxster S this [TS]

  is when they're still pretty new and i [TS]

  drove that box dress and I got in that [TS]

  car thinking others just an imposter 911 [TS]

  I'm gonna hate this piece of garbage and [TS]

  all my god did I loved it it was [TS]

  phenomenally good i was stunned i could [TS]

  see all the non s boxer would be kind of [TS]

  a dog and kind of boring but man the box [TS]

  dress was nice this way back no.5 I [TS]

  haven't driven them to there is a friend [TS]

  at work that has m235i that i have yet [TS]

  to drive without he promised me I could [TS]

  at some point and this obviously it's [TS]

  just that but more but yeah that the old [TS]

  boxers anyway super nice i'm curious to [TS]

  see how this new one is we are all [TS]

  sponsored this week by warby parker who [TS]

  makes buying glasses online easy and [TS]

  risk-free warby parker calm / ATP order [TS]

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  lenses they also offer prescription and [TS]

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  me as long as I don't go to a doctor and [TS]

  get my you know denial report i'm [TS]

  actually not there's still something for [TS]

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  offer ultra-thin high index lenses now [TS]

  buying glasses online [TS]

  sounds tricky but warby parker makes it [TS]

  easy and risk-free with this home try-on [TS]

  program that you order up to five pairs [TS]

  of glasses to evaluate for free they [TS]

  ship the frames to you for free you try [TS]

  them on the comfort of your own home for [TS]

  free you can keep the friendship of five [TS]

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  prepaid return label with no obligation [TS]

  to purchase anything after all that if [TS]

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  there you spent nothing if they are for [TS]

  you or park early start on your order [TS]

  right away taking a prescription glasses [TS]

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  go to warby parker calm / ATP or your [TS]

  free home try-on today with free [TS]

  shipping both ways and no obligation to [TS]

  buy once again [TS]

  warby parker calm / ATP thanks to worry [TS]

  Parker for sponsoring our show a quick [TS]

  follow-up on the neutral thing [TS]

  apparently the 2016 model is the bad [TS]

  boxer it's when they added 17 to the [TS]

  public-facing name the Porsche 718 [TS]

  boxster that's 2016 model don't get that [TS]

  one you want the 2015 boxster which [TS]

  doesn't have a number in the name it [TS]

  does have a number 98 one is that the [TS]

  number behind the scenes but it's just [TS]

  called boxer so it's confusing i know [TS]

  because karma is always on they do look [TS]

  very similar but the 2016 one with the [TS]

  turbo four-cylinder engine thumbs down [TS]

  so we thought the neutral part of the [TS]

  show was over but turns out it's not [TS]

  apple was hired somebody from QX which [TS]

  is interesting so qnx is a company that [TS]

  makes an operating system also called [TS]

  qnx and that operating system [TS]

  I understand to run a bunch of embedded [TS]

  systems not least of which is [TS]

  so is it the entertainment system in [TS]

  cars or is it the actual like ECU and [TS]

  cars [TS]

  I don't think it's well it might be the [TS]

  ECU but i think what did its most known [TS]

  for its like that the reason you people [TS]

  care economics at all is because it's a [TS]

  real-time operating system so you would [TS]

  never need a real-time operating system [TS]

  to run like your infotainment because [TS]

  things are slow as molasses anyway [TS]

  oh my god so slow yeah well but the link [TS]

  in the show notes about what [TS]

  no that would be the entry in real-time [TS]

  operating system which describes it [TS]

  pretty well basically real-time [TS]

  operating system is the only situation [TS]

  where you can make guarantees about when [TS]

  things will happen so you can say we be [TS]

  guaranteed that this thing will be [TS]

  serviced in a maximum of this amount of [TS]

  time writing is hard real-time and soft [TS]

  real-time soft real-time you know cries [TS]

  very hard to to give you know computing [TS]

  time to certain things and certain [TS]

  intervals and hard real-time is like [TS]

  this is a part of the system you are [TS]

  going to be able to service this in a [TS]

  certain interval at minimum and use hard [TS]

  real-time systems for things like space [TS]

  probes or flight control systems where [TS]

  you can't have like a space probe [TS]

  whizzing around the solar system and [TS]

  have it go to do something that has to [TS]

  be done with millisecond precision and [TS]

  then have a a memory allocation happen [TS]

  or interrupt happen when you didn't [TS]

  expect it and not have your routine [TS]

  service for an extra couple of [TS]

  milliseconds because there was like a [TS]

  little icon right on our personal [TS]

  computers those little hiccups and [TS]

  glitches happen all the time but in [TS]

  real-time operating systems especially [TS]

  hard real-time operating systems that [TS]

  the whole design is made so that can't [TS]

  happen ever [TS]

  and the reason this comes up for [TS]

  automotive things is there are some [TS]

  things in automotive systems that are [TS]

  like that you know anti-lock brakes [TS]

  possibly also engine control things [TS]

  where you can't ever have any kind of [TS]

  pick up you always have to have things [TS]

  done on a certain time line within a [TS]

  certain deadline but some fuzzy decided [TS]

  but like there are limits that you need [TS]

  things to happen right now guaranteed [TS]

  every single time no possibility that it [TS]

  could make it happen so I think we [TS]

  talked about this we're talking about [TS]

  like what kind of what could Apple bring [TS]

  the cars with software we talked a lot [TS]

  about like like Barbie mb entertainment [TS]

  systems and the UI and things that Tesla [TS]

  does on its big touchscreen that's all [TS]

  well and good Apple probably good then [TS]

  you can basically run Iowa [TS]

  it's on that and you'll be fine but for [TS]

  the other parts of the car that driving [TS]

  parts whether they be self driving or [TS]

  just simply driver aids or smart cruise [TS]

  control or engine control and stuff like [TS]

  that that stuff has to be real time [TS]

  because it's a safety issue you can't [TS]

  have me you know you can't have any like [TS]

  stutter or whatever that you see and and [TS]

  regular operating systems and you know [TS]

  offering something like I was ten do [TS]

  have things with a try to give you [TS]

  guarantee times like audio processing [TS]

  but anyone who's ever used audio on a [TS]

  Mac knows that it's not a hard real-time [TS]

  operating system you can get into [TS]

  situations so you have underflow and you [TS]

  have a little stutter and you know your [TS]

  disk isn't fast enough or whatever parts [TS]

  of the whole chain can fall down to give [TS]

  you a failure in the weather the audio [TS]

  or video but a hard real-time system [TS]

  just simply can't do that it has to give [TS]

  guaranteed time slices to all the [TS]

  software running which means it's much a [TS]

  very different thing for you to create [TS]

  you wouldn't create a real-time [TS]

  operating system even for someone like [TS]

  to watch it would be silly but it's very [TS]

  different than anything apple has ever [TS]

  created to my knowledge and so that's [TS]

  why it's interesting to see this person [TS]

  who i think it was like that the founder [TS]

  of q XR jump that's right some bigwig [TS]

  and QX it's not like he's the one [TS]

  writing the real-time operating system [TS]

  but he was well in the beginning but you [TS]

  don't even like now I'm sure I was not [TS]

  hiring into right there operating [TS]

  systems or if you're going to hire [TS]

  someone to be in charge of the real-time [TS]

  operating system effort for your car or [TS]

  whatever the guy who is the founder of q [TS]

  NX is pretty darn good hire yeah and [TS]

  real-time follow-up from wikipedia where [TS]

  everything is guaranteed to be true at [TS]

  the geneva motor show Apple demonstrated [TS]

  carplay which provides an iOS like user [TS]

  interface to head units and compatible [TS]

  devices once configured by the [TS]

  manufacturer QX can be programmed to [TS]

  hand off its display in certain [TS]

  functionality to an apple carplay device [TS]

  so it seems at least for now that can [TS]

  actually be used for carplay but like [TS]

  John is as described maybe more than [TS]

  that and blackberry about human acts [TS]

  like it's not as if you can access the [TS]

  only useful for real-time like [TS]

  blackberry bottoms like oh they can be [TS]

  our phone OS like it big QX is a [TS]

  flexible operation you make do whatever [TS]

  you want but for if Apple's ever going [TS]

  to any self-driving stuff or even just [TS]

  like the you know the the barrier to [TS]

  entry for just a basic car with simple [TS]

  smart cruise control and lane departure [TS]

  warning stuff like that or even just [TS]

  anti-lock braking systems or what [TS]

  ever you need a real-time operating [TS]

  system to do that type of functionality [TS]

  and the question is always applicant it [TS]

  invent one in house is already have one [TS]

  in house is it going to I mean obviously [TS]

  didn't just want the it hired this guy [TS]

  didn't buy qnx I forget who owns the [TS]

  assets the Qax maybe blackberry still [TS]

  around i guess they still wanted at this [TS]

  point mom anyway this is a problem that [TS]

  they need solved if they're ever going [TS]

  to make a car like an actual complete [TS]

  car instead of just like some component [TS]

  of a car the software system for a car [TS]

  so I think this is the first public [TS]

  signal that they are serious about this [TS]

  aspect of the car as opposed to all the [TS]

  rumors like well of course it's going to [TS]

  be self driving and of course it's going [TS]

  to that this higher really only makes [TS]

  sense in that in the context of car [TS]

  software that does the car stuff the [TS]

  safety related car stuff [TS]

  yeah the gentleman's name is damn dodge [TS]

  for the record the unfortunate name for [TS]

  really ended up not a motive sort of so [TS]

  I guess that makes sense right [TS]

  I know but Dodgers not really the brand [TS]

  that i will probably want to evoke yeah [TS]

  I don't know whatever i'm at least in [TS]

  part of products with mopar family so [TS]

  nobody's perfect but yeah it's really [TS]

  interesting i like you said John I think [TS]

  what's most interesting about this to me [TS]

  is that it's a public signal that Apple [TS]

  is moving towards automotive I mean sure [TS]

  you could interpret this in many other [TS]

  ways short qnx does seem to underpin [TS]

  blackberry 10 or the the newest [TS]

  blackberry operating system i think but [TS]

  anyway the point is all signs point to [TS]

  this being an automotive related higher [TS]

  and and a high-profile one so I don't [TS]

  know where there's smoke there's fire [TS]

  and there's ever-increasing amounts of [TS]

  smoke seem like Apple is kind of like [TS]

  decreasing ly o lay about their car [TS]

  plans they're like they're just not even [TS]

  denying them anymore and he's like yeah [TS]

  okay you guys all know we're making a [TS]

  car right and something they could do [TS]

  which is definitely an apple move is for [TS]

  the first car that comes out 20 20 or [TS]

  whatever like if they're just starting [TS]

  the real-time operating system ever now [TS]

  it's not gonna be ready in time for that [TS]

  right so what they can do is release a [TS]

  car that's not self-driving [TS]

  it merely uses third-party components [TS]

  for its engine control and anti-lock [TS]

  brakes and it's airbags and it's smart [TS]

  cruise control these are all things that [TS]

  you can buy you know from various [TS]

  manufacturers off-the-shelf an apple [TS]

  does the car play part of the car right [TS]

  in the UI and all the things that are [TS]

  not real time that are just you know you [TS]

  i type things and that's still a [TS]

  perfectly good Apple car and in the [TS]

  meantime over the next three or four or [TS]

  five years they work on their [TS]

  self-driving thing with their own [TS]

  real-time operating system that it's [TS]

  kinda like the ipod approach where you [TS]

  know they had that pic slowest thing or [TS]

  whatever the day from a third-party the [TS]

  license then using their ipods when it [TS]

  came time to the iphone they didn't put [TS]

  that over [TS]

  oh that was one of the competing options [TS]

  internally they they did their own thing [TS]

  it takes a long time to do your own [TS]

  thing [TS]

  I'm not sure depending on what stage [TS]

  there right now and if this is coming on [TS]

  board to Shepherd their multi-year [TS]

  running real-time operating system [TS]

  effort to just make sure like it's on [TS]

  track in to you know get a gun then [TS]

  maybe they can hit 2020 but if they're [TS]

  just starting their ever now and [TS]

  staffing up i don't think they're gonna [TS]

  be ready in time for current running and [TS]

  I think they need to be because nobody [TS]

  has produced a completely self driving [TS]

  car this point they can drive in any [TS]

  roads and I don't think apple is going [TS]

  to in 2020 either so it might be smart [TS]

  to put out a car that is impressive and [TS]

  good in all the ways that Apple's cars [TS]

  can be good but that Apple outsources [TS]

  all the parts that it's not innovating [TS]

  and essentially like they don't have any [TS]

  particular innovation to add to and you [TS]

  like breaking your or adaptive cruise [TS]

  control or engine control and so there's [TS]

  no reason for them to put their own [TS]

  operates in fact it's a huge risk to do [TS]

  that just their third party vendors who [TS]

  make parts for the rest of the car [TS]

  industry that you can buy those things [TS]

  from the software and hardware they [TS]

  should just do that and put all their [TS]

  effort into the design of the car and [TS]

  the UI in the parts that they're good at [TS]

  all right so I guess we're out of [TS]

  neutral portion of the show which means [TS]

  only one thing left to talk about that [TS]

  we might have to go through the stupid [TS]

  tivo section i offer i can explain the [TS]

  mp3 file format to you if you want and [TS]

  why podcasts apparently aren't and maybe [TS]

  can't be vbr oh yeah where does that go [TS]

  that was in the show notes then [TS]

  disappear it John demoted it right [TS]

  before the show oh I was the motive the [TS]

  Swift thing too is I don't think there's [TS]

  much to say but you put their gay so [TS]

  what you have to say about swift swift [TS]

  update it's gonna be quick to be honest [TS]

  mostly I just wanted to hear you hear [TS]

  your reaction to the line about [TS]

  the the goal being to be better at [TS]

  regular was it regular expressions then [TS]

  purl way to remember a time i read them [TS]

  on the Swift evolution mailing list i [TS]

  read all these things I'm I'm soaking in [TS]

  it there's nothing that's what is going [TS]

  to be surprised [TS]

  that's a reference to an ad that was on [TS]

  before you're both delightful anyway so [TS]

  I tell me John what you think about this [TS]

  claim that Swift will be better than [TS]

  string processing then purl not a claim [TS]

  it's a goal and the goal is not a [TS]

  promise if you would know if you read [TS]

  this [TS]

  yes i did read it I did really just [TS]

  kinda I'm just trying to get you to get [TS]

  a rise out of you anyway tell me about [TS]

  it [TS]

  number its fine so like Swift three that [TS]

  a lot of lofty goals some of them is [TS]

  particularly ABI stability they didn't [TS]

  get not api api application binary [TS]

  interface which basically means can [TS]

  Apple build a library and Swift and ship [TS]

  it with their operating system and then [TS]

  people ship applications that link to [TS]

  that binary and then can they update [TS]

  that binary the next person operating [TS]

  system and not break people's [TS]

  applications because the applications [TS]

  that are linking to the library and [TS]

  expecting things to be in certain places [TS]

  and find certain symbols [TS]

  how do you update that you need ABI [TS]

  stability if you change the calling [TS]

  convention 04 libraries and you release [TS]

  a new version of that library it will [TS]

  break everybody's applications because [TS]

  they they're binaries expect a call in [TS]

  to a different way so so if the still [TS]

  point where they haven't nailed that [TS]

  town and wanted to episode 3 but it [TS]

  didn't make it a lot of things they did [TS]

  doing with three are the reason because [TS]

  they're still trying to nail down [TS]

  generics and some other features that [TS]

  effect [TS]

  ABI and also this resiliency stuff where [TS]

  it's like if we change aspects of the [TS]

  language now again can we make a new [TS]

  version of library and have the old [TS]

  applications still work with it [TS]

  this is important for its most important [TS]

  for us vendors what Apple does the ship [TS]

  libraries like UI kit and many other [TS]

  you know it's an umbrella framework [TS]

  whatever huge libraries that application [TS]

  link against individual application [TS]

  developers for the most part unless they [TS]

  have like a suite of applications and [TS]

  they have their own frameworks that they [TS]

  share between them [TS]

  you can always application better just [TS]

  at the link your whole thing but you're [TS]

  going to dynamically linked to the OS [TS]

  libraries but up until this point [TS]

  everyone shipping a swift app was sort [TS]

  of shifting shipping uh with the entire [TS]

  Swift standard library as part of their [TS]

  application because it was the only safe [TS]

  way to do that and that's sort of [TS]

  untenable even for applications to be [TS]

  shipped that way so apples gonna fix [TS]

  that problem and swift for that is now [TS]

  they're going for so forth they still [TS]

  have some issues to work out [TS]

  leftover stuff from 23 to make that [TS]

  possible and they're trying to put [TS]

  forward two phases one is like the [TS]

  important stuff and then it's like the [TS]

  threat the frills [TS]

  interestingly the in the important stuff [TS]

  section the stage one of swift for one [TS]

  thing the case he was talking about is [TS]

  that they're going to take another crack [TS]

  at their strings they can change the [TS]

  strings couple times already and they're [TS]

  gonna fill with them again and their [TS]

  goal is to be as good at string handling [TS]

  as parlous which is actually fairly [TS]

  lofty goal because parole for all its [TS]

  historic weirdness is actually really [TS]

  fast dealing with strings and can do [TS]

  things that most other languages can do [TS]

  in terms of Unicode and all sorts of [TS]

  cool stuff like that [TS]

  I to hold on i was going to ask you [TS]

  about this I I now I am NOT trying to [TS]

  needle um honestly asking what makes [TS]

  pearl so good at string processing I [TS]

  know that like regular expressions [TS]

  expressions are I guess like a first [TS]

  class citizen or something but I've [TS]

  written very little pearl my life and it [TS]

  was a long time ago so can you give like [TS]

  an executive summary of what makes pearl [TS]

  so don't go to this because it seems [TS]

  universally accepted that it is so why [TS]

  well this two aspects one is string [TS]

  representation which is weird and pearl [TS]

  for historical reasons and is actually [TS]

  very complicated but for example in a [TS]

  language like objective-c that doesn't [TS]

  sort of have native strings like you've [TS]

  got you know character pointers which [TS]

  are no good for you because we live in [TS]

  the modern world [TS]

  I mean you had a string and a string is [TS]

  like utf-16 under the covers [TS]

  there's also some methods to get what [TS]

  you want but it's not a particularly [TS]

  efficient format if you had to pick like [TS]

  you never pick utf-16 as an internal [TS]

  representation for because it's just not [TS]

  it's not the way to do things [TS]

  in the modern world it's bigger than you [TS]

  wanted to be it's still not fixed size [TS]

  because you have things that did take [TS]

  you know it's not everyone that you know [TS]

  you have characters take multiple sets [TS]

  of the bytes in studio it's not it's not [TS]

  uniform like an array-like it has all [TS]

  the disadvantages none of the advantages [TS]

  pearls representation used to just be [TS]

  bag of bytes and they were smart enough [TS]

  to switch to utf-8 internally pro can do [TS]

  everything every other language can in [TS]

  terms that has libraries that you could [TS]

  encode and decode however you want the [TS]

  way you want to write things in pearl is [TS]

  when you pull data into pearl from [TS]

  whatever from the disk from the network [TS]

  or whatever that string data you have to [TS]

  know the encoding obviously because [TS]

  otherwise how do you help you know how [TS]

  to deal with it and you want to sort of [TS]

  decoded into pearls internal [TS]

  representation then all three or poker [TS]

  program you want to deal with I don't [TS]

  know what you might call it like pearl [TS]

  strings where they they are just strings [TS]

  that pearl understand that you don't [TS]

  have to deal with the encoding and all [TS]

  pearls functions in terms of regular [TS]

  expressions and sub string matching and [TS]

  all sorts of other stuff deal with them [TS]

  as logical sense of characters or fan of [TS]

  comic characters whereas unicode code [TS]

  points right and when you output them [TS]

  whether to be a disk file or terminal or [TS]

  over the network whatever at that point [TS]

  you decide how you want to encode it for [TS]

  transmission you turn it back into a [TS]

  byte sequence with the utf-8 16 so on [TS]

  and so forth and because the modern [TS]

  world basically uses utf-8 everywhere [TS]

  and parole you know secret secret [TS]

  unbeknownst to you use utf-8 internally [TS]

  as internal representation you can go [TS]

  through that whole cycle without ever [TS]

  having to encode and decode which is not [TS]

  the case for a string which isn't a [TS]

  native feature of delicacy and every [TS]

  time you come from utf-8 and tennis [TS]

  string instrumental string back to utf-8 [TS]

  it's an expensive process so that's just [TS]

  like the most fundamental level [TS]

  why is it convenient to deal with stuff [TS]

  in Pearl because they picked a good [TS]

  internal representation format because i [TS]

  have a system that says we decode on the [TS]

  way in our entire working with the [TS]

  string of the program you don't have to [TS]

  worry about the reputation but trust us [TS]

  it'll be efficient and an output UN code [TS]

  to whatever you want to be and that's a [TS]

  no op it's utf-8 through the whole way [TS]

  and then after that it's like okay well [TS]

  then your representation is good your [TS]

  algorithms are efficient in terms of [TS]

  allocating but for strings when you [TS]

  start a pending and realizes you're [TS]

  going to keep ending so pre-allocated [TS]

  you know like also just smart things [TS]

  like that [TS]

  Pearl's regular expression engine is you [TS]

  know that the gold standard of a regular [TS]

  expression engines in terms of the [TS]

  number of years that have been put into [TS]

  both the syntax and the engine itself [TS]

  with all sorts of crazy efficiencies [TS]

  we're going to look at your regular [TS]

  expression figure out you know what i [TS]

  can see that is it faster way to do this [TS]

  than using you know just a regular [TS]

  regular session I could do something [TS]

  simpler because I can shortcut this by [TS]

  looking at the anchor and optimizing it [TS]

  to an index lookup or use a DFA when [TS]

  it's faster than fa rapes engine because [TS]

  I can look at the regular session like [TS]

  it is very clever optimizations for [TS]

  regular expression engine addition to [TS]

  all the features i think we're talking [TS]

  about for the Swift stuff is they just [TS]

  want their switch strings to be as [TS]

  powerful as pearl strings is convenient [TS]

  to deal with that have a nice can be [TS]

  methods for doing things and that when [TS]

  you use those methods things are fast [TS]

  because you can get in trouble really [TS]

  fast with strings if you have to keep [TS]

  changing representation internally or [TS]

  your internal representation is weird [TS]

  and anytime you have to do any operation [TS]

  you have to like walk the whole string [TS]

  defined boundaries between things or [TS]

  whatever there's lots of lots of chances [TS]

  for inefficiency or even just like you [TS]

  have a string in your repeatedly pending [TS]

  and making a bigger and biggest [TS]

  and making a bigger and biggest [TS]

  bring that can be massively inefficient [TS]

  to if you are careful about how you [TS]

  allocate memory so pearl for all the [TS]

  weirdness know there is one is related [TS]

  to this that didn't wanna go into mom is [TS]

  very fast and has like all the features [TS]

  you can possibly imagine some which may [TS]

  be obscure but the investments was going [TS]

  for they want to be faster than NS [TS]

  string which they didn't list but [TS]

  they're not gonna throw their own stuff [TS]

  under the best number faster and better [TS]

  than NS string native to the language [TS]

  and really efficient internally with [TS]

  lots of operations and then regular [TS]

  expressions were in the face to where [TS]

  it's like that's a nice day we just need [TS]

  to get the string representation and the [TS]

  basic features down and then we can add [TS]

  regular expressions at any point after [TS]

  that and that's a whole the project like [TS]

  how do we make a really fast regular [TS]

  expression engine but that's that's in [TS]

  the face to box the phase two is the [TS]

  goodies in phase one is like eat your [TS]

  vegetables and get get our house in [TS]

  order to get everybody down figure out [TS]

  with generics going to be and by the way [TS]

  async stuff that's that's even farther [TS]

  in history it's not even gonna be so for [TS]

  probably know like icing kuwait and I [TS]

  actually didn't get to use that too much [TS]

  my C sharp days but i know enough to [TS]

  know that's super awesome but you know [TS]

  what i did use a lot of my csharp days [TS]

  and i'm really excited about reflection [TS]

  super stoked about that was that stage [TS]

  one I forget this reflection stage 1 [TS]

  stage 2 so reflection is basically a it [TS]

  allows you to it allows your code to [TS]

  look at itself [TS]

  hence reflection and make decisions [TS]

  about things and i think i like it so [TS]

  much because it's my favorite hammer and [TS]

  so everything looks like a nail to me [TS]

  and there's certainly appropriate times [TS]

  and ways to use reflection and [TS]

  inappropriate times and ways to use [TS]

  reflection but they're there sometimes I [TS]

  can think of a contrived example right [TS]

  off my head but there are some times [TS]

  when when reflection is a very powerful [TS]

  way to solve a problem and I think a lot [TS]

  of the kvetching that was going on in [TS]

  the past about how swift is not dynamic [TS]

  enough for some of the developers [TS]

  particular generally speaking the old [TS]

  objective-c guard a lot of that would [TS]

  potentially a lot of that complaining [TS]

  would potentially go away with more [TS]

  robust reflection because there is some [TS]

  support Swift but it's really really [TS]

  crappy that's with today but it's really [TS]

  crappy i don't i'm excited about what's [TS]

  coming I think [TS]

  everything in this post by chris lattner [TS]

  which will link in the show notes all [TS]

  that is worth reading I don't think [TS]

  there's any really wasted words and i'm [TS]

  really curious to see where this goes it [TS]

  seems like they're learning from their [TS]

  mistakes are learning from [TS]

  over-promising and under-delivering or [TS]

  maybe it seems from their perspective [TS]

  they didn't necessarily promise ABI best [TS]

  ability in three but they didn't do a [TS]

  good job of staying with their intention [TS]

  was whether or not you agree with that [TS]

  whatever but the point is they're trying [TS]

  to be a lot better about that in the [TS]

  future maybe a stability was a goal so [TS]

  if everybody got as they got into [TS]

  swiftrage i think they realized a couple [TS]

  of things one of the the appetite for [TS]

  syntax changes and Swift seems to be [TS]

  waning like as in people got it kinda [TS]

  like I just learned with two or Swift [TS]

  2.12 by now we're gonna change it again [TS]

  as with three and so there was kind of [TS]

  eventually a a rush say look this is [TS]

  probably our last big chance to change [TS]

  some tax stuff so everybody let's like [TS]

  it was any other sin tax crap in the [TS]

  language overusing equals here we should [TS]

  use the colons or casing of things [TS]

  inconsistent between this and that and [TS]

  picking new keywords like now is the [TS]

  time to do is I spent a lot of time and [TS]

  Swift three doing syntax breaking [TS]

  changes non backward compatible changes [TS]

  to the language itself to the characters [TS]

  that you type to make your programs [TS]

  because they're trying to really say we [TS]

  got a little bit you know a little [TS]

  trailing end of syntax changes numbers [TS]

  shutting the door on that and we're [TS]

  saying now that we're never going to [TS]

  have them again but they're they're [TS]

  going to be really you know they have to [TS]

  be really justified as to be really [TS]

  strong reason to then we're going to try [TS]

  to maintain source cumulative [TS]

  probability from Iran so there's a big [TS]

  rush to get those things in the second [TS]

  part is when dealing with the ABI stuff [TS]

  they still haven't sorted out all the [TS]

  generic system and other things that [TS]

  that affect the ABI because they have to [TS]

  figure out what kind of things are we [TS]

  going to be calling in what ways and [TS]

  everything before they can nail down all [TS]

  the ABI and if they hadn't started out [TS]

  that part of language is impossible to [TS]

  the API so it's kind of like they [TS]

  weren't ready to do the ABI yet because [TS]

  there are other things that they had to [TS]

  do first like they went off into the [TS]

  weeds and we're dancing through the [TS]

  daisies and doing other frivolous things [TS]

  right [TS]

  they realize that actually were not at [TS]

  the point yet where we [TS]

  can do ABI stability we haven't figured [TS]

  out all these things that are [TS]

  prerequisites for it so they spent all [TS]

  their time trying to sort of get all [TS]

  that painful stuff out of the way and [TS]

  develop and they're still doing that do [TS]

  all the prerequisites and then hopefully [TS]

  in this in the swift for Stage one time [TS]

  frame they will have all that i'm not [TS]

  sure you know again they were trying to [TS]

  be careful say this is a goal or [TS]

  whatever not a promise it's still not a [TS]

  promise with stage one thing who knows [TS]

  how this will turn out because you can't [TS]

  like the worst mistake they can make is [TS]

  to rush the ABI stability and be stuck [TS]

  with a dumb calling convention that [TS]

  prevents them from adding features later [TS]

  this is like the most important time to [TS]

  not rush to nail things down and set in [TS]

  concrete because once you do that and I [TS]

  will start shipping frameworks that [TS]

  people like their apps against that's it [TS]

  you can't renege on that you can't like [TS]

  oh we're breaking all your absence next [TS]

  release we compile everything right [TS]

  they I mean they really really don't [TS]

  want to do that kind of like you know [TS]

  for for an OS vendor for platform render [TS]

  API promises are something you really [TS]

  don't want to break or if you do break [TS]

  them you want to a carbon 64 and break [TS]

  it before you actually shipped to [TS]

  customers and they're still pissed off [TS]

  about that because they are developed [TS]

  applications against it and plan their [TS]

  products and so is over but it's even [TS]

  worse to be shipped to customers and [TS]

  then a year later say up you know what [TS]

  all your apps don't work anymore and [TS]

  people update their operating system [TS]

  sorry about that so this is really a [TS]

  critical time in Swift and it's much [TS]

  much better for them to continue to miss [TS]

  dates and to make sure they have it [TS]

  solid because once you set this in stone [TS]

  and start shipping and frameworks that's [TS]

  it for many many many years that makes [TS]

  sense [TS]

  Marco you have a lot to add on this [TS]

  would you like to add about this whole [TS]

  Swift thing haha final sponsor tonight [TS]

  is 0 [TS]

  despite its importance in everyday life [TS]

  Wi-Fi is broken Wi-Fi never reaches your [TS]

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  the way they do it with this mesh [TS]

  network it's actually faster than you [TS]

  think like it isn't just like a repeater [TS]

  they actually do this kind of side [TS]

  network in its way faster than like it's [TS]

  a simpler Peter would be and you guys [TS]

  have gyros this works pretty well for [TS]

  you right [TS]

  yep yep i have a set that they sent me [TS]

  three and i plug them in thinking i'll [TS]

  just try this out so I can talk about on [TS]

  the sponsor me then I'll go back to my [TS]

  actually relatively old airport extreme [TS]

  and the i'm looking at my ear one of my [TS]

  three-year-olds right now because it's [TS]

  sitting right next to me because I liked [TS]

  it enough that i never disconnected it [TS]

  so the management through the ios app is [TS]

  great it's simple in a good way and i [TS]

  really like it did the same thing I i [TS]

  hook them up thinking all trying out for [TS]

  you know because their sponsor still [TS]

  hooked up [TS]

  there's then I also still have my other [TS]

  router connected to have them in bridge [TS]

  mode like not that i would recommend [TS]

  doing this really you should just get [TS]

  these and they will do everything but [TS]

  because i have all these rules in my [TS]

  airport router you can set up in bridge [TS]

  mode so i have my previous wireless [TS]

  router not doing anything wireless [TS]

  anymore and those things too is [TS]

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  having you know five little fan shape [TS]

  things everywhere in my house [TS]

  yeah i mean zero it's such a better [TS]

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  shipping free thanks a lot 20 for [TS]

  sponsoring our show [TS]

  it's time whether you end the show or [TS]

  not because if you try to the show now [TS]

  it's just going to be in the after-show [TS]

  that's still part of the show [TS]

  it's so the thing of it is I swear to [TS]

  god it's true i opened and I message [TS]

  window and started writing to Marco you [TS]

  should just end the show after the Swift [TS]

  I know I know your plan doesn't matter [TS]

  doesn't matter if you do it you go ahead [TS]

  and show we're just gonna do in the [TS]

  afternoon I didn't send it I was going I [TS]

  was going to have you know i was gonna I [TS]

  was gonna tell him just do it just end [TS]

  the show and then we'll do it the [TS]

  after-show but it'll be a funny moment [TS]

  but that as i was typing that I message [TS]

  I swear to god this is true as i was [TS]

  typing the iMessage it occurred to me we [TS]

  had more sponsor to do and then I [TS]

  resigned myself to my fate [TS]

  John tell us everything that I'm so [TS]

  excited to know about tebow what you [TS]

  want to hear but mp3 file format i would [TS]

  love to but somebody had to move it down [TS]

  no that doesn't deserve the place that I [TS]

  got that'sthat's down by how we handle [TS]

  email now [TS]

  tivo tivo was purchased by Rho V a long [TS]

  long time ago [TS]

  solo in April long time I tried so hard [TS]

  you guys let's go over the list of [TS]

  things that have happened since the yeah [TS]

  rovi is used to be gemstar even [TS]

  remembers them and make like on screen [TS]

  TV guides like that big gray would you [TS]

  pick some channels and macrovision do [TS]

  you actually remember macrovision like [TS]

  when it was a thing i do know it was [TS]

  like a copy protection for VHS tapes [TS]

  like analog protections and if you [TS]

  bought a VHS that had a movie on that [TS]

  you tried to make a copy of it and now [TS]

  the right equipment the copy would have [TS]

  all these little fuzzy things on it [TS]

  wouldn't look good it was very silly [TS]

  yeah but it has that is weird like [TS]

  alternating bright and dark line that [TS]

  was in the overscan range of the TV [TS]

  picture so that it wouldn't show up on a [TS]

  TV but the idea was to throw off the [TS]

  automatic gain control of the VCR that [TS]

  would you possibly flight from bright to [TS]

  dark and show we are things in this one [TS]

  line so garbled the maximum brightness [TS]

  of the signal is really high right now [TS]

  so tournament game control down and then [TS]

  like then it would go back loading area [TS]

  that now turning trigger making control [TS]

  up and so if you made a copy of a movie [TS]

  with this with the VCR when you know [TS]

  most VCRs would try to automatically [TS]

  balance the brightness of the picture [TS]

  the movie would just isolated a few [TS]

  seconds from light to dark and light to [TS]

  dark [TS]

  as it was adjusting for this line that [TS]

  was actually off-screen yeah of [TS]

  protection has always been crappy but [TS]

  anyway this is the company that bought [TS]

  team its kind of someone had mp3 file [TS]

  format works actually if you get that so [TS]

  many more [TS]

  no we're not talking about that now I'm [TS]

  so the company rovi is a combination of [TS]

  jumpstart macrovision so this is not a [TS]

  company that really makes products that [TS]

  people love like who love macrovision I [TS]

  guess content owners did I mean throwing [TS]

  Rambis and that you have let you know [TS]

  rambutan lots and you have really a [TS]

  favorite team here but Ram bus made like [TS]

  in theory you know their patterns that [TS]

  were used in products to people like but [TS]

  yeah until they were convicted for fraud [TS]

  because at deep links anyone like that [TS]

  you know the gemstar on screen TV guides [TS]

  like a bit to jumpstart suffers [TS]

  enterprise software was sold to people [TS]

  who make cable boxes and macrovision was [TS]

  licensed to people who you know you know [TS]

  content owners for making their thing so [TS]

  this is the company that bought tivo [TS]

  just give a very very brief Tebow recap [TS]

  people who don't know what the boys [TS]

  because it's increasingly larger number [TS]

  of people that evil was one of the [TS]

  original and probably the best-known [TS]

  makers of dvrs digital video recorders [TS]

  which is like a VCR but instead of [TS]

  recording television onto a bunch of [TS]

  tapes and records that video onto your [TS]

  hard drive in the beginning they were [TS]

  they would take analog video and [TS]

  recorded onto a hard drive and [TS]

  eventually they worked with cable cars [TS]

  in digital stuff or whatever and not a [TS]

  lot of people bought TiVo's in the grand [TS]

  scheme of things people who bought them [TS]

  early on early adopters like change [TS]

  their lives are changing bar alive we [TS]

  bought goblin around the same time we [TS]

  had kids when we couldn't like schedule [TS]

  your lives around like Oh a television [TS]

  show is going to be on a date I better [TS]

  be at the TVA if I got some possible the [TS]

  children so along with getting a digital [TS]

  camera getting a tivo around the same [TS]

  time we had kids was a really smart move [TS]

  because now we no longer had to be on [TS]

  the schedule of televisions and really [TS]

  totally changed your life but in terms [TS]

  of how to deal with television everyone [TS]

  has tivo especially but early on like [TS]

  the fact that you could pause live [TS]

  television you recorded anything whether [TS]

  you could choose the show's you want to [TS]

  record by picking the shows instead of [TS]

  programming your VCR to say record [TS]

  channel for an 8pm and stop recording at [TS]

  9pm and you would have to do that it [TS]

  just had a built-in guide the children [TS]

  the show you to a season pass for show [TS]

  to say i want to watch next [TS]

  calls whenever the x-files on is [TS]

  recorded only record the new episodes [TS]

  don't record the repeats all sorts of [TS]

  good stuff like that it just became the [TS]

  way we watch television you never [TS]

  actually watched live television and of [TS]

  course the most important feature is the [TS]

  skip button where you could skip 30 [TS]

  seconds at a time so you wouldn't have [TS]

  to see any commercials because your DVR [TS]

  you tivo would record the commercials [TS]

  but you would skip over them when you [TS]

  watch because he wants to watch that the [TS]

  current version of tebow has a series [TS]

  i'm assuming a series of humans figuring [TS]

  out where all the commercial break [TS]

  boundaries are and shows so now when [TS]

  you're watching tivo when the commercial [TS]

  start you can hit one button it just [TS]

  jumps past all the commercials in a [TS]

  single button press you may ask yourself [TS]

  hey why do I have to even push the [TS]

  button why doesn't the table just [TS]

  exercise the commercials for me [TS]

  well replaytv did something like that a [TS]

  competitive and I got suit out of [TS]

  existence so he was kind of dancing [TS]

  around but anyway I love TiVo's I keep [TS]

  buying them i always buy the most [TS]

  expensive biggest best TV like possibly [TS]

  can and when a new one comes out i buy [TS]

  that one and keep replacing them they're [TS]

  fairly expensive there's either a [TS]

  monthly fee or you pay a huge amount of [TS]

  money for like a lifetime service and I [TS]

  you should just do that because you know [TS]

  we use the TV wasn't just rotate around [TS]

  the house i'm a big proponent of tivo [TS]

  for many many years I've complained that [TS]

  their software and hardware has been [TS]

  terrible for the amount of money you pay [TS]

  it should be incredibly fast and [TS]

  responsive and it hasn't been they've [TS]

  improved that in recent years but [TS]

  apparently not enough to make people buy [TS]

  their products so I'm if you listen to [TS]

  I don't hypocritical of me complaining [TS]

  about tivo or many podcasts have [TS]

  complained about it same way we can play [TS]

  about cap Apple it's like its product [TS]

  well for me and it's a product i love [TS]

  that i think is the best in the industry [TS]

  but that it could be better in obvious [TS]

  ways and I've always complain that the [TS]

  company seems not to know how to be [TS]

  successful and doesn't understand what [TS]

  it's got like many times I was asking [TS]

  the charge me more money for higher-end [TS]

  product that higher margins like I was [TS]

  ready and willing to pay but really they [TS]

  were going down Market to try to grow [TS]

  their their user base anyway everybody [TS]

  didn't work they were never able to [TS]

  really make any money they're streaming [TS]

  services came and started their lunch [TS]

  and I was sad about that because I think [TS]

  you know until cable companies released [TS]

  their death grip on all the content that [TS]

  we all love which is happening slowly [TS]

  like a lot [TS]

  large increasing number of the shows [TS]

  that i watch are not on quote unquote TV [TS]

  like a stranger things that I just [TS]

  watched as on netflix and not anywhere [TS]

  else orange is the new black house of [TS]

  cards was that a man hi castles and [TS]

  Amazon there is lots of original content [TS]

  coming there but there's still a lot of [TS]

  stuff that's only on television or HBO [TS]

  now Marco can get the HBO thing that you [TS]

  can never remember the name of but it's [TS]

  now the one doesn't require you to have [TS]

  the the cable subscription right so [TS]

  things are happening to eventually take [TS]

  us out of the death grip of cable [TS]

  companies but for many many years and [TS]

  still today in many ways depending on [TS]

  which shows you're interested in the [TS]

  only place to get this content is on [TS]

  television the only place to get it in [TS]

  real time in high quality without having [TS]

  to wait you know is on television and [TS]

  the only civilized way to watch [TS]

  television and my opinion is to use a [TS]

  tivo not to use the DVR that comes from [TS]

  the cable company which are universally [TS]

  very bad but t-bo's been bought by this [TS]

  company and the question was well what [TS]

  we gonna do with them wrote mostly [TS]

  licenses intellectual property and does [TS]

  their on-screen guide stuff doesn't look [TS]

  promising [TS]

  rosie has a lot of patents tivo has a [TS]

  lot of patents related to DVR stuff so [TS]

  everyone's worried like oh yeah they [TS]

  just want to go for the patents through [TS]

  a couple of good signs when they bought [TS]

  them by they bought them for 1.1 billion [TS]

  dollars which is not you know it's not [TS]

  bad that's like an Instagram and a bit [TS]

  right for a company that everyone's like [TS]

  Tebow are they still in business so it's [TS]

  pretty good because they have a lot of [TS]

  important patterns they're also taking [TS]

  the name of tivo which I thought was a [TS]

  good sign like we didn't buy them and [TS]

  say the tivo name is no more now it's [TS]

  just Roe v and we will just stop selling [TS]

  people will stop selling Hardware to [TS]

  customers and we will just stop [TS]

  everything about the company and just [TS]

  like license the patents and become like [TS]

  a patent troll or whatever but the fact [TS]

  that they're taking the name TV over the [TS]

  new company is my thought was a good [TS]

  sign at least in their initial [TS]

  announcement then they started saying [TS]

  well we we don't really feel like we [TS]

  might we have to make these plastic [TS]

  boxes with hard drives in them and give [TS]

  them the customers that Kim seems like a [TS]

  loser business to us so we're looking [TS]

  into other options and people are [TS]

  panicking like oh no like when my tivo [TS]

  dies [TS]

  well I not be able to buy another box it [TS]

  does the same thing this is my big fear [TS]

  because we're at evil household and [TS]

  you keep buying them ever ever catch [TS]

  wind of that happening kinda like with [TS]

  the plasma a new panasonic was stopping [TS]

  making plasmas gonna buy like three of [TS]

  these things and just hope they continue [TS]

  to work until you know they'll break [TS]

  right there aren't dependent on a [TS]

  service run by tivo uh yeah kind of I [TS]

  mean I feel like that's the surmountable [TS]

  problem we're like I don't know what [TS]

  their their commitments are illegal [TS]

  legally to people who bought their [TS]

  products to keep that service up and [TS]

  running for a certain period of time but [TS]

  even if they stop selling the plastic [TS]

  boxes i'm assuming they'll keep running [TS]

  the service first because the service [TS]

  like if you don't pay for lifetime [TS]

  you're paying monthly fee for service [TS]

  and it's got a hugely profitable to just [TS]

  run the service because it's not you [TS]

  know whatever the fee is it's pretty [TS]

  expensive and it's not costing that much [TS]

  per user to keep the service up and [TS]

  running so i'm assuming they'll keep the [TS]

  service running for a while but that is [TS]

  very optimistic [TS]

  well so here here's the here's the angle [TS]

  like the statements that the most recent [TS]

  statement i seen from this is basically [TS]

  the the new owners of the company [TS]

  hinting at the idea that they don't want [TS]

  to make the boxes but they will gladly [TS]

  let somebody else make a box and tivo [TS]

  branded which have done before they did [TS]

  the directv which was the tivo branded [TS]

  for directv if you sign up for direct TV [TS]

  you would get essentially a tivo box [TS]

  integrated with a directv thing in a [TS]

  single unit so that you know from your [TS]

  cable company or your television [TS]

  provider instead of doing the crappy [TS]

  set-top box that they have now they [TS]

  would let them use tivo software and [TS]

  tivo services to give you a tivo power [TS]

  tivo branded box that is not sold to you [TS]

  by tivo so the kind of like armor they [TS]

  were just license to them these [TS]

  electrical properties software and the [TS]

  hardware and maybe they would still run [TS]

  the service or whatever but that would [TS]

  give you a larger variety of potential [TS]

  tivo boxes of all tied to the cable [TS]

  companies which if I had to pick i'd [TS]

  rather than continue to make their own [TS]

  hardware and just be better at it like [TS]

  this [TS]

  that's choice number one second choice [TS]

  of having a bunch of cable companies [TS]

  make tivo branded boxes that's not [TS]

  terrible i suppose the worst is no more [TS]

  cable boxes at all and I have to use the [TS]

  current you know cable company dvrs [TS]

  that's that's my nightmare scenario so [TS]

  keeps you up at night it does because [TS]

  like this is literally how we watch [TS]

  television in the house if it's not on [TS]

  netflix or amazon video it steve-o [TS]

  that's how our apple TV 2 apple users [TS]

  our client boxer netflix or whatever [TS]

  that's how we watch television in the [TS]

  house and I'm just waiting my finger on [TS]

  the trigger to spend like one or two [TS]

  grand on a bunch of the highest-end [TS]

  TiVo's before they stop making [TS]

  amendments I guess when do that i'm [TS]

  going to i love like your nightmare [TS]

  scenario like it's like one of the [TS]

  reasons why I criticize Apple we had to [TS]

  listen to the show somewhere [TS]

  what reasons might criticize apple is [TS]

  that i love using the mac so much and I [TS]

  worry like if the mac ever became [TS]

  something that I couldn't or didn't want [TS]

  to use any more from my work I'd have to [TS]

  switch back to windows and the thought [TS]

  of that [TS]

  I mean I don't say I might even try [TS]

  linux instead like that the thought of [TS]

  going back to Windows it is so like [TS]

  turns my stomach [TS]

  that's how little i want to do that you [TS]

  seem to be having that kind of reaction [TS]

  with the thought of going for a tivo to [TS]

  let the cable companies DVD partner you [TS]

  just you can't go back like just ask [TS]

  anybody who has a tivo like they'll have [TS]

  complaints about it's not the greatest [TS]

  product number but you can't go back to [TS]

  watching regular like live television is [TS]

  barbaric like first of all you see [TS]

  commercials which is you can't go back [TS]

  to that of use and never ever seen [TS]

  commercials and second of all like just [TS]

  losing the ability to pause live [TS]

  television or skip around without a [TS]

  buffer queue up for like you just can't [TS]

  there's no replacement for that because [TS]

  it is always just do screaming well you [TS]

  know what it's like when game of throne [TS]

  comes on like the commercial have to [TS]

  skip but like I can watch it every time [TS]

  whereas when their servers go down [TS]

  because everyone's trying to watch the [TS]

  episode exam time I don't have to deal [TS]

  with that I'm I'm above the fray on that [TS]

  like it is the tivo for all its faults [TS]

  and all its low software passes the bar [TS]

  of being like as reliable for the most [TS]

  part as TV is supposed to be when we [TS]

  were growing up you turn on the [TS]

  television is a picture there right [TS]

  especially if you had cable as the cable [TS]

  is out in which case you see nothing [TS]

  right but if the cable is not out you [TS]

  turn on and the picture is there and you [TS]

  change the channel you can see what's on [TS]

  that channel and never is buffering and [TS]

  never can't find the servers and never [TS]

  asked your iCloud password and [TS]

  there's anything like it's just there [TS]

  like it is it passes that level of [TS]

  reliability this way way more and is [TS]

  only ever slowed slightly less reliable [TS]

  I can't remember the last time I had a [TS]

  time of crash or problem at all with my [TS]

  tivo just sits there like an appliance [TS]

  on all the time 24 hours a day never [TS]

  have to do anything to it and it just [TS]

  runs home and it's it's incredibly high [TS]

  bar that i've been using them since the [TS]

  the series 2 which is not the original [TS]

  one but it was still back in the analog [TS]

  days and everyday box i've had i've been [TS]

  frustrated that it's not faster and [TS]

  doesn't have better hardware in it and [TS]

  can I can't get it with a faster cpu and [TS]

  more ram and a bigger hard drive but [TS]

  other than that the alternative is just [TS]

  unthinkable to me so eventually like [TS]

  when all the streaming services get [TS]

  better and all the content of care about [TS]

  is no longer on court realty but it's [TS]

  all on streaming then I'll be able to [TS]

  leave tivo behind but until then I want [TS]

  something like that and back in the old [TS]

  hypercritical episode about this I [TS]

  talked about what I really wanted Apple [TS]

  to make this back before Apple [TS]

  definitively close the door on ever [TS]

  doing anything tivo like when Steve Jobs [TS]

  was like one of his a most like d3 talk [TS]

  to something like that and basically [TS]

  explain exactly why they're never going [TS]

  to tivo box and made me super said what [TS]

  I always wanted was a company that's [TS]

  better at this than tivo to do what I [TS]

  called an omnivorous box because of my [TS]

  idea back then was like look video comes [TS]

  from million different places even back [TS]

  then there was Netflix and there's cable [TS]

  network over the air and there's local [TS]

  TV and all sorts of other places where [TS]

  you can get video from an itunes and all [TS]

  that stuff it's like I don't want to [TS]

  deal with all those places the video [TS]

  comes from i don't wanna deal with 10 [TS]

  remotes I don't want to deal with 10 [TS]

  services i don't want to deal with [TS]

  figuring out where it is and how i get [TS]

  it and what input i have switched or [TS]

  anything like that but on the other hand [TS]

  I realized that all the different people [TS]

  who own those things are never gonna get [TS]

  together and say we should make things [TS]

  easier for customers because everybody [TS]

  owns their different content and the [TS]

  different towns has a different [TS]

  licensing deals for the NFL Major League [TS]

  Baseball and all the HBO shows and [TS]

  network programming and all the [TS]

  different channels and cable but like [TS]

  they're never going to get together so [TS]

  the only way to solve is technologically [TS]

  is to do what Tebow did but even bigger [TS]

  to make a box that will eat any kind of [TS]

  input an omnivorous box that says I will [TS]

  sit in front of your television and you [TS]

  just throw all your video crap at me [TS]

  and then a bunch of people will figure [TS]

  out how to integrate with all those [TS]

  services and they will make the software [TS]

  for it and figure out how to do all the [TS]

  integration and you're only interface [TS]

  will be with that I'll never ask box and [TS]

  it takes in all your input and it can [TS]

  record it locally can stream it can do [TS]

  everything and it doesn't matter where [TS]

  it's coming from as far as you're [TS]

  concerned into one unified interface and [TS]

  that's an incredibly hard thing to do [TS]

  google drive to do it [TS]

  tebow has been trying to do because you [TS]

  can do netflix on TV on amazon be open [TS]

  to you and stuff like that but they're [TS]

  not great at either no one has ever made [TS]

  that because it's incredibly hard [TS]

  problem every one of those companies [TS]

  would be your enemy because they don't [TS]

  want you doing that they don't want you [TS]

  being the one and only device television [TS]

  like the cable companies want to do with [TS]

  a set-top box and netflix wants to do [TS]

  that need to have your client and [TS]

  everything like it's incredibly hard [TS]

  thing to do no one has ever even [TS]

  attempted to do except for maybe you [TS]

  will not fail pretty much measurably [TS]

  tebow has come the closest Tebow does it [TS]

  for playing old cable television they [TS]

  were able to do that because of the [TS]

  cablecard thing where you can totally [TS]

  replace your I don't have cable box and [TS]

  all i have found that cable box in my [TS]

  house ever [TS]

  maybe I had when I was in Georgia before [TS]

  a TV out but since i've had people have [TS]

  not having cable box in my house period [TS]

  only had Tebow's the thing you can do [TS]

  because of cable car which was a sec [TS]

  thing they did was not perfect but it's [TS]

  better than nothing and the tivo it's [TS]

  not omnivorous but it will accept all [TS]

  like corte-real TV input and then slowly [TS]

  but surely they added features for like [TS]

  Netflix clients and amazon video clients [TS]

  and the ability to play video from one [TS]

  tivo onto another tivo and they added [TS]

  iOS app which is actually pretty good [TS]

  what I can do everything on my tivo from [TS]

  my phone or my iPad anywhere in the [TS]

  world i can delete shows i can set up [TS]

  season passes i can watch video on it [TS]

  from my tivo anywhere kind of slingbox [TS]

  style I can you know what shows on tivo [TS]

  on the TV downstairs a little extender [TS]

  box you can do if you don't need a full [TS]

  fledge Tebow they actually have a pretty [TS]

  good system in a pretty good product [TS]

  this point it just said that they could [TS]

  never get enough customers to make it [TS]

  work financially i really hope that [TS]

  someone would buy them that had a lot of [TS]

  money that could do really good job of [TS]

  the product but Apple sort of put a [TS]

  stake in the ground said no we're doing [TS]

  the appletv puck thing we're never going [TS]

  to record locally we're just going to [TS]

  streaming that's the future [TS]

  forget about the tivo thing and rovi [TS]

  seems like their plan is we will take a [TS]

  piece of every cable box sold by letting [TS]

  your [TS]

  the box have tivo hardware and software [TS]

  and I didn't get to talk about the [TS]

  remote which is another table innovation [TS]

  of having an actual good remote with a [TS]

  nice shape and distinct buttons that you [TS]

  can use in the dark by feel [TS]

  boy there's a lot of things like about [TS]

  evil and i will be sad when they're gone [TS]

  and right now with rovi owning them it's [TS]

  kind of like a quiet period where [TS]

  nothing is happening but I just really [TS]

  really hope that I can still I'm begging [TS]

  his company let me give you that [TS]

  literally thousands of dollars to buy [TS]

  the most expensive DVR with tivo [TS]

  software that I possibly can that works [TS]

  with my cable cards and i will keep [TS]

  doing that for a long time [TS]

  cool I don't understand why either one [TS]

  of you two don't have tivo boxes you can [TS]

  we'll save that for the next episode and [TS]

  follow-up you to come all this way why [TS]

  you don't have to i can tell you right [TS]

  now the files box just fine [TS]

  it's not that I don't have cable yeah [TS]

  you keep that it's a really quick [TS]

  response to it she doesn't care and I [TS]

  can't use it so there you go [TS]

  actually all kidding aside that is the [TS]

  executive summary right there but here's [TS]

  the thing that with 4k see if you got [TS]

  one you would never be able to get rid [TS]

  of one it's like the Tesla thing like [TS]

  you can't you can't go back [TS]

  no one gets tivo uses it and then it's [TS]

  like go back to the old way it's [TS]

  apparently a lot of people did otherwise [TS]

  he wouldn't be out of business [TS]

  no it's not enough people got them to [TS]

  begin with because it was so much more [TS]

  expensive like the cable box is like oh [TS]

  it's part of my cable to lincoln dollars [TS]

  a month to rent or whatever no does the [TS]

  math to figure out that if you just [TS]

  bought a tivo you were to come out [TS]

  anyway [TS]

  good idea in the show thanks for the [TS]

  responses this week [TS]

  Casper warby parker and 0 and we'll see [TS]

  you next week [TS]

  now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

  mean to be in as it was accidental was [TS]

  accidental [TS]

  John racer Margo in kc would let you [TS]

  because it was accidental was accidental [TS]

  and you can find show know today p dot [TS]

  and if twitter follow them [TS]

  yes byl ISS so that's Casey list and a [TS]

  co-pay rm20 Marco Arment and our DC at [TS]

  Syracuse [TS]

  I don't the the files box is not good I [TS]

  that as much as I'm trying to get a rise [TS]

  out of you it's not good but it's a [TS]

  meeting for the basic needs that I had I [TS]

  really think like the windows comparison [TS]

  here is apt like the like every DVR [TS]

  that's not a tivo is mediocre at best [TS]

  and that's really being generous [TS]

  you know the interfaces these things are [TS]

  all awful unlike john i actually have [TS]

  reused and lived with a cable company [TS]

  DVR before and yet like yeah they're [TS]

  they're horrible really [TS]

  however most at the whole reason TV [TS]

  doesn't really have much business left [TS]

  anymore is because as you said like most [TS]

  people don't care and they will just be [TS]

  happy to get the one their cable company [TS]

  offers them for a few dollars extra [TS]

  month and that's all they know that's [TS]

  probably the only kind of Arsene know [TS]

  something I don't care it's just that [TS]

  they can't they don't want to pay more [TS]

  that's what it comes down to it steve-o [TS]

  you have to pay for the box which is [TS]

  expensive and then you have to pay for [TS]

  monthly service on top of that that's [TS]

  not part of your cable bill which is the [TS]

  key feature right exactly and then so [TS]

  they yeah they were just never able to [TS]

  remember an able to come up with a [TS]

  business model the customers they got [TS]

  for the most part of you did their [TS]

  customers SAT there be super happy but [TS]

  they could never figure out a way to get [TS]

  people over the barrier and it was [TS]

  substantial barrier because the boxes [TS]

  have always been expensive lifetime has [TS]

  always been super expensive and the [TS]

  monthly bills have also i mean i think [TS]

  they've gone down but they used to be [TS]

  like equal to or more than netflix i was [TS]

  like what am I getting for this like I'm [TS]

  you know it was hard to understand what [TS]

  youre even paying for so it's mostly [TS]

  just a bunch of you know rich people [TS]

  essentially will have these boxes and [TS]

  who enjoy them which is a shame and the [TS]

  windows comparison i would do it like [TS]

  this i think Tebow is the windows where [TS]

  it's like that's good enough it's like [TS]

  maybe the windows 95 there is no Apple [TS]

  that's actually good in all respects [TS]

  like there is no iOS and then the cable [TS]

  boxes or i guess like das maybe or like [TS]

  punch cards [TS]

  thank you know and some cable box is [TS]

  better that like I've seen I seen a lot [TS]

  of these cable box that use them some of [TS]

  them have interesting technological [TS]

  solutions someone actually i think some [TS]

  companies do server-side DVR and [TS]

  industry to over there what's [TS]

  interesting solution to keep hard drives [TS]

  out of people's houses but the UI's are [TS]

  all terrible the capacities are like [TS]

  maybe they're ok for regular people by [TS]

  feel like part of the thing about t-bo's [TS]

  and part of the reason i think [TS]

  I think most ppl customers by the fancy [TS]

  ones is the people who buy our like [TS]

  enthusiasts ensure they will know what [TS]

  is the biggest hard drive you can get [TS]

  the biggest heart ever had in my house [TS]

  was like when they cannot go 3 terabyte [TS]

  hard drive this that was the biggest [TS]

  hard drive my house was the one in my [TS]

  tivo why do I need to like capacity [TS]

  because you realize when you have a lot [TS]

  of room you can do things you can treat [TS]

  it differently you kind of like oh I'm [TS]

  just going to do a season pass and then [TS]

  I'll watch them you can record an entire [TS]

  season of a show and just have it [TS]

  sitting there for like the period of [TS]

  time with no new shows are coming out [TS]

  and then just you know and again this is [TS]

  barbaric people like oh well i dunno [TS]

  netflix has always a house of cards i [TS]

  can watch it whenever I want [TS]

  why don't you have recorded but these [TS]

  are shows that are not available through [TS]

  streaming or all are only available [TS]

  through purchase on itunes our date [TS]

  delayed or whatever like you know again [TS]

  it's getting better [TS]

  back in the day there was this was [TS]

  literally the only place to get a lot of [TS]

  stuff these days it's almost never the [TS]

  only place but it is still often the [TS]

  best place I mean that something like i [TS]

  mean the the reason why Apple never [TS]

  aren't this business is very obvious [TS]

  that it the the DVR as a thing is just [TS]

  an incredible pile of messy hacks [TS]

  everything about it is a messy hack [TS]

  that's a beautiful hack there is no way [TS]

  to make it good [TS]

  there is no way to make it reliable and [TS]

  and perfect there's no way to get what [TS]

  like what it tries to do is turn [TS]

  broadcast TV here and whether it's [TS]

  broadcast over the air cable I'm not [TS]

  distinguishing here effectively into [TS]

  on-demand video but with a ton of [TS]

  asterisks on that and and where you know [TS]

  it's well turns into on-demand video [TS]

  sort of and most of the time but it does [TS]

  a phenomenal job with the only place [TS]

  where it falls down as i said in the [TS]

  fall down neveress thing where it only [TS]

  consumes broadcast television broadcast [TS]

  television is a really really good job [TS]

  they're really good at that but it [TS]

  doesn't take input from any other source [TS]

  and treated the same way it's like if [TS]

  you want to watch netflix or you can [TS]

  load the netflix client and the netflix [TS]

  client evo is not good and neither is [TS]

  the m11 like they're just this is not [TS]

  their strength right so there is no [TS]

  omnivorous box for broadcast TV tivo got [TS]

  pretty darn good at and the number of [TS]

  caveat is really small and if the [TS]

  alternative is just watch it when it's [TS]

  on to use the cable company DVR it's [TS]

  it's night and day [TS]

  ultimately this is it's a really [TS]

  the complex Jackie solution to a problem [TS]

  that shouldn't really exist and the [TS]

  world is moving away from needing to [TS]

  exist [TS]

  yep investing in tivo now would be like [TS]

  investing in cassette tapes in 2002 [TS]

  having yeah there might still be some [TS]

  uses for them but it there diminishing [TS]

  and it's not as bad as acceptance but [TS]

  here's the thing about that like apples [TS]

  Apple decision not to do it like they [TS]

  did their own TV thing which is more [TS]

  forward-looking that makes sense right [TS]

  but this was happy when it was done with [TS]

  analog standard-def video and if you had [TS]

  said okay well I'm not going to be [TS]

  interested in that because it's not the [TS]

  future that was what 10 years ago 15 [TS]

  years ago like it's not as if like just [TS]

  around the corner we won't have regular [TS]

  television anymore [TS]

  there was a long period of time and [TS]

  during like basically my entire [TS]

  children's life at least decade [TS]

  oh maybe a decade-and-a-half that's it [TS]

  15 years worth of value that they've [TS]

  delivered making my television watching [TS]

  better during that time you could be [TS]

  saying whole time while this isn't the [TS]

  future this is my futuristic yeah but [TS]

  it's a 15 years from like I'm not gonna [TS]

  just throw in 15 years not talk about [TS]

  geological timescales I live through [TS]

  this 15 years acting important years [TS]

  during those 15 years I had a better [TS]

  experience of watching television so [TS]

  maybe if you're investing on a 20-year [TS]

  timescale maybe don't invest in t-ville [TS]

  but I'm glad some company decided it's [TS]

  worth doing this for 50 I mean look at [TS]

  how long you know classic mac OS last [TS]

  July we shouldn't have done that because [TS]

  the future is not this the future is iOS [TS]

  well I was not going to be here in 2007 [TS]

  so want to do something between 1984 and [TS]

  then and and maybe we'll get value out [TS]

  of that like it because Apple only turns [TS]

  I television really late to office it [TS]

  wasn't the time for them to do that well [TS]

  I feel still think they would have [TS]

  benefited from for example buying them [TS]

  up and buying all their patents and [TS]

  assets and having them perhaps designed [TS]

  the remote for the apple TV like they're [TS]

  still value that they could extract from [TS]

  the company but whatever they wanted to [TS]

  go their own way but I'm glad to have it [TS]

  was around for her what it was and I [TS]

  still think now there's a place for its [TS]

  fading there they should be they should [TS]

  be shown the door eventually but for [TS]

  that to happen [TS]

  everybody else needs to get on the same [TS]

  page and right now like I would much [TS]

  rather watch Game of Thrones cute up [TS]

  you know 10 or 15 minutes they couldn't [TS]

  get into the room and time on my tivo [TS]

  because i know a hundred percent [TS]

  reliable i'll be able to watch it and I [TS]

  can watch the tears of people as the [TS]

  week on twitter trying to load their HBO [TS]

  now happen they can't get the video to [TS]

  load because lots of people trying to [TS]

  stream it next week tune in for the best [TS]

  cordless phone to buy for your home [TS]

  already did that [TS]

  I think about the wire cutter pic and [TS]

  I'm not happy with it but whenever I [TS]

  seriously we did like it but i love that [TS]

  you wanted to cordless phones like now [TS]

  no new cordless phones plural oh that [TS]

  makes it so much but we have to have we [TS]

  have to have their minds because [TS]

  ourselves like most terrible at her [TS]

  house so we can't reliably just use our [TS]

  cell phones you know obviously both have [TS]

  cell phones there are no other solution [TS]

  to this problem so we have a landline [TS]

  but we don't like we have like you know [TS]

  telephone wire running all over the [TS]

  house so we didn't really need new [TS]

  phones i think our find one of them just [TS]

  had a dead battery but she was annoyed [TS]

  and once we go on no one's everywhere [TS]

  they're not getting much better [TS]

  that's another thing of like our phone [TS]

  cordless phones getting much better not [TS]

  really not really great put the cheap [TS]

  and we got like 5 handsets and you know [TS]

  they're all over the house and they work [TS]

  fine and like you know talking about [TS]

  that much anyway but anyway I had [TS]

  entered the wire cutter pick and it was [TS]

  it was alright i love John that you are [TS]

  that the same man can say oh I must have [TS]

  the best possible version of this [TS]

  antiquated technology and my antiquated [TS]

  edge its oh god I just follows all the [TS]

  menus are in HD now who are you gonna be [TS]

  the one that's buying the accord when [TS]

  everyone else on the planet has a Tesla [TS]

  or other electric vehicle not buying the [TS]

  quarter of its only CVT I'll tell you [TS]

  that my limits no its you know will say [TS]

  maybe we know when I'll stop with the [TS]

  cord but yeah I said I don't have a [TS]

  choice for what am I gonna do it all you [TS]

  shouldn't I call this one you can do [TS]

  everything yourself on wall if I want to [TS]

  hear people's voices I can't and I can't [TS]

  install new cell power so you can [TS]

  actually install really little ones in [TS]

  your house so the little repeated now [TS]

  i'm there's no way in hell I'm doing [TS]

  voice that's something i have the my [TS]

  demand is that phone be as reliable as [TS]

  phone and one of those little repeater [TS]

  things that use the internet connection [TS]

  does not pass that bar for me you can [TS]

  also switch to a carrier that actually [TS]

  works in your house like AT&T know [TS]

  everyone just bit my carrier has the [TS]

  best signal at my house i'm in a there's [TS]

  a cell phone dead zone nearby me where [TS]

  certain section of rich people refuse to [TS]

  have cell towers build another house and [TS]

  the reward is they get no cell signal [TS]

  i'm not in the i'm not in the actual [TS]

  dead zone but I'm close enough to it the [TS]

  dish [TS]

  the great thing about is on my thing I [TS]

  can hear them but I can't hear a word I [TS]

  say they think you're just a really good [TS]

  listener [TS]

  now I calls me all the time my cell [TS]

  phone on at home and I'd say hello you [TS]

  talk to you there are you there family [TS]

  know about talking you can your word I'm [TS]

  saying I can hear everything you're [TS]

  saying perfectly clearly it's great [TS]