The Accidental Tech Podcast

182: I Had to Reboot My Car Today


  so are you recording in a format that is [TS]

  not just call recorder [TS]

  nope start recording in a format that is [TS]

  not just call recorder you're just [TS]

  asking me to mess things up [TS]

  oh because you're afraid he's gonna pull [TS]

  Casey hmm my UPS last for at least five [TS]

  minutes i'm actually plug into it so yes [TS]

  yes I hear the truck to hear it here [TS]

  drivers driving away would say maybe [TS]

  it's leaving [TS]

  yeah i think it's driving away alright [TS]

  so a job market just asked John if if he [TS]

  could start a crash resilient sound [TS]

  recording programs so that if this truck [TS]

  was doing some sort of electrical work [TS]

  and suddenly the power went out it would [TS]

  be a big deal because John hopefully and [TS]

  would be using something that isn't call [TS]

  recorder like i was using my Mac crapped [TS]

  out which i can tell you why that [TS]

  matters if we ever get to talk about the [TS]

  mp3 file format i would love to do that [TS]

  actually but anyway it's the John it [TS]

  said to Marco well it doesn't matter [TS]

  because my UPS last for at least five [TS]

  minutes and I'm plugged into my UPS that [TS]

  that's how I said it was an accurate [TS]

  reproduction that is a completely [TS]

  flawless reproduction it was effectively [TS]

  verbatim only was recorded oh yes it was [TS]

  in my end of my phone recorder recording [TS]

  it will successfully make it a disc [TS]

  anyway I bring all this up because not [TS]

  20 minutes ago I was sitting at my imac [TS]

  knowing that i'm going to be going out [TS]

  of town and thinking to myself I don't [TS]

  know what to do because i really want to [TS]

  let this thing run for another week and [TS]

  see if it if it reboots itself and if it [TS]

  doesn't I think at that point i will [TS]

  personally be fairly convinced that the [TS]

  OEM ram is good and that the owc ram was [TS]

  bad but i'm probably going to be using [TS]

  plex at some point the Plex server is [TS]

  the imac if this thing turns itself off [TS]

  I don't have any mechanism to turn it [TS]

  back on [TS]

  should I turn it off and plug it into [TS]

  the battery part of the PS i don't know [TS]

  it i decided not to because I went into [TS]

  system preferences and confirmed that [TS]

  little check box that reads so start up [TS]

  automatically after a power failure in [TS]

  so i'm just going on faith that either [TS]

  we won't have a power failure [TS]

  or if we do the mac will start itself [TS]

  back up and somebody in the chat is [TS]

  asking you don't shut down your machine [TS]

  at night like the rest of us now this [TS]

  thing is on always i turn the screen off [TS]

  yep i'm an exact same way no one should [TS]

  be shutting down their machines at night [TS]

  anymore ever [TS]

  doesn't make any sense but to be fair I [TS]

  there's there's no reason not to i guess [TS]

  now there is there's a pretty big reason [TS]

  they do use a good amount of power but [TS]

  you know the probably ideal balance [TS]

  between like functionality and power [TS]

  savings is sleep mode to actually put [TS]

  this to put the machine to sleep not too [TS]

  deep hibernation mode but regular sleep [TS]

  mode that is like I think a great [TS]

  balance for most people want to put it [TS]

  slip your energy saver settings to do [TS]

  that for you after one hour of idle time [TS]

  go to sleep or whatever [TS]

  yeah but not that I don't want that [TS]

  happening during the day though when I'm [TS]

  awake because at any moment I might want [TS]

  to do something on this mac remotely and [TS]

  yes I could do wake-on-lan blah blah but [TS]

  that's what scheduled sleep before then [TS]

  if you know you know scheduled to go to [TS]

  sleep at 11pm everyday i wake up at 5am [TS]

  and you're fine don't know that was the [TS]

  thing that's the thing [TS]

  oh yeah schedule that's how i do my back [TS]

  plays backups my computer wakes itself [TS]

  up at around three a.m. and does [TS]

  backblaze and then go to sleep so I [TS]

  don't actually run continuously all day [TS]

  I just do like nightly backups [TS]

  interesting this is that it is always [TS]

  from the wake up is the mac feature and [TS]

  then back with you to stay put me just [TS]

  put to sleep when it's done now back [TS]

  place has its own independent schedule [TS]

  which is the run continuously or choose [TS]

  when you want me to run so i have I two [TS]

  independent schedules that I just [TS]

  synchronize good old Quran style say the [TS]

  mac wakes up to 3 or the mags up to 55 [TS]

  and back play starts at three and yeah [TS]

  so every day you're ruining five minutes [TS]

  of power user 0 of your computer use [TS]

  wasting that power 15 minutes to stay [TS]

  awake for like an hour i like to do all [TS]

  that stuff to do it during that time [TS]

  probably just time machine backups and [TS]

  like power nap is like think predates [TS]

  are postdates my mac but power an apple [TS]

  have things wake up from their sleep in [TS]

  due time machine backups oh and check [TS]

  mail and stuff that doesn't help that [TS]

  place although technically if it wakes [TS]

  up to the time machine back place will [TS]

  also run if you have a set to continue [TS]

  anyway the point is scheduling feature [TS]

  is part of rs.10 it's been there for [TS]

  years and years and years you should use [TS]

  its cool yeah I probably should sleep [TS]

  this thing at night but I just never do [TS]

  I me and I say that only because nothing [TS]

  is happening on it while I'm sleeping i [TS]

  mean i guess the [TS]

  one of you guys or maybe like Jason's [TS]

  Nelson sees three hours in the past [TS]

  might be trying to watch something off [TS]

  of my plex server that I've shared with [TS]

  you guys but in principle there's a [TS]

  reason I shouldn't just let the things [TS]

  sleep at like midnight or one o'clock or [TS]

  something like that and wake itself back [TS]

  up at a at like six or seven in the [TS]

  morning [TS]

  I mean you can use that as like your own [TS]

  kind of like political statement of you [TS]

  know you should really go to bed like [TS]

  stop watching top gear of my flexor need [TS]

  to go to sleep well I just thought it [TS]

  was funny because I was having this this [TS]

  internal debate with myself about [TS]

  whether or not i should move the mac [TS]

  onto the battery side of ups and once [TS]

  once i have it should only be a question [TS]

  of when not whether wrote short and [TS]

  that's exactly what I was about to say [TS]

  actually once i have my data point with [TS]

  regard to the OEM ram at that juncture i [TS]

  will move it over to the battery side of [TS]

  the UPS but I don't want to mess with [TS]

  anything until that i am still a little [TS]

  concerned that there was that one seeing [TS]

  GP related failure like a day after you [TS]

  put the stock ran back in that is that's [TS]

  like the only thing that's weird about [TS]

  this to me that says like maybe this is [TS]

  more a more complex problem but the fact [TS]

  that it hasn't happened all at all in [TS]

  what three weeks or something and it was [TS]

  happening about every week like it's [TS]

  correct that is a pretty strong you know [TS]

  switch over there so I i'm not entirely [TS]

  ready to say it's definitely the ram but [TS]

  i'm probably about ready to say you [TS]

  should always get the ram swamped [TS]

  yeah and basically as I've said in the [TS]

  past [TS]

  all I'm doing right now is trying to get [TS]

  a data point so that i can go to owa owc [TS]

  and cermak sales where the hell they're [TS]

  called and say hey listen you know I was [TS]

  having reboots once a week up with the [TS]

  OEM ran back in it ran for blank without [TS]

  a reboot [TS]

  I'm pretty confident it's the ram can [TS]

  you send me new sticks and actually i [TS]

  don't have the individuals name handy [TS]

  but somebody had sent me a couple of [TS]

  tweets over the last couple weeks saying [TS]

  that they had similar issues with owc [TS]

  ram and ended up returning it i think [TS]

  now and I presume at this point I'm well [TS]

  out of the return window because I got [TS]

  this computer in January but anyways I [TS]

  they said that they had gotten crucial [TS]

  ram instead and thus far it had been [TS]

  flawless although to be fair to only [TS]

  been [TS]

  few days at that point so I think what [TS]

  I'll try to do is I'll try to do a [TS]

  return on the owc ram assuming my test [TS]

  plays out the way I expected well and [TS]

  then if that Ram has similar issues at [TS]

  that point i'll probably either asked to [TS]

  return it or i should say an exchange or [TS]

  whatever and then i'll ask to return it [TS]

  if it if the new hypothetical ram has [TS]

  the same issue and maybe just get like [TS]

  you know crucial ram or something like [TS]

  that anyway we should probably do some [TS]

  follow-up is john doing less rentals [TS]

  wrong [TS]

  yeah i got an email today that this is a [TS]

  reminder from lens rental com this is a [TS]

  reminder that your rental and yesterday [TS]

  in our system indicates that has not [TS]

  been sent back to us so i was surprised [TS]

  by this email because first of all my [TS]

  rental didn't end yesterday it ended on [TS]

  monday and yesterday was Wednesday and I [TS]

  sent it back on monday and of course [TS]

  when i sent it back i got a receipt from [TS]

  the fedex place and take a picture of [TS]

  the receipt with my phone so as soon as [TS]

  i got this email I could immediately [TS]

  reply with a picture of my received the [TS]

  tracking number that if they were [TS]

  entered into the fedex website they [TS]

  would see was on truck for delivery back [TS]

  to their place in Missouri or whatever [TS]

  they are and my question is to market [TS]

  was down the shore did I do it wrong am [TS]

  I supposed to enter my tracking number [TS]

  after i returned am I supposed to go to [TS]

  the website and click a button that say [TS]

  that I shipped it back that I messed [TS]

  this up somehow [TS]

  you didn't mess it up at all basically [TS]

  something messed up that doesn't usually [TS]

  do that anyway they don't have that they [TS]

  don't have the lens i want to rent for [TS]

  Morris vacation so I'm kind of upset [TS]

  about that will show what lens is it [TS]

  it's a lens that I probably don't want [TS]

  to buy because it's a thousand dollars [TS]

  and it's a trying to find like a zoom [TS]

  zoom that I wouldn't want to buy because [TS]

  it's like a compromise but it's a pretty [TS]

  good compromise this is the sony vario [TS]

  tests artiste re60 into 70-millimeter [TS]

  it's a very compact zoom it's like if [TS]

  you wanted to have one lens on your [TS]

  camera on vacation [TS]

  it takes decent pictures at many ranges [TS]

  and has a pretty good zoom range not [TS]

  really really big zoom but you know [TS]

  pretty wide to pretty close up and folds [TS]

  back to a small size [TS]

  this looks like a good lens for that but [TS]

  then it's also a thousand dollars and do [TS]

  i really want to spend a thousand [TS]

  dollars on a zoom lens that isn't [TS]

  optically that amazing but it really is [TS]

  very flexible and it's much smaller than [TS]

  the zoom lens [TS]

  it's i'm thinking of renting that and [TS]

  just buying some problems with the [TS]

  camera [TS]

  yeah i mean honestly and I was actually [TS]

  very pleased we got a lot of feedback [TS]

  from other photographer so far basically [TS]

  saying that they too and these are some [TS]

  some pro photographers that they too [TS]

  only on primes and and some of them said [TS]

  I occasionally resume for like an event [TS]

  but for the most part there's been a [TS]

  number of people who basically saying [TS]

  that they agree with with my plea last [TS]

  episode 2 please consider only using [TS]

  crimes and please at least get the 50 [TS]

  prime equivalent for your system they [TS]

  were actually quite a lot of of those i [TS]

  was that was very nice to hear so I so [TS]

  it does seem like you are looking at i [TS]

  also have to mention last show if you're [TS]

  not looking at the sony system i would [TS]

  also give serious consideration to the [TS]

  fuji xt line or X Pro Line like there's [TS]

  there's the xt-1 that a lot of people [TS]

  loved i believe the xt 2 is now out or [TS]

  at least it's about to be out the the [TS]

  whole fuji x-trans sensor thing is kinda [TS]

  cool and has some pretty cool advantages [TS]

  so i would strongly recommend if you [TS]

  don't want to jump all the way up to [TS]

  Sony's a 6300 / j7 price ranges consider [TS]

  the fuji exline because it is I i have [TS]

  not had any experience with it but it is [TS]

  very well-regarded and a lot of people [TS]

  like that a lot at the slide at the [TS]

  slightly lower price point people trying [TS]

  to talk about the micro four-thirds [TS]

  already know I'm totally aware of all [TS]

  these things I think I've read every [TS]

  single review on dpreview for every 2016 [TS]

  camera at this point so I'm very aware [TS]

  of the things and you know i'm i'm [TS]

  pretty settled on the sony body i'm [TS]

  willing to pay the extra money for the [TS]

  action and like it's a camera that I [TS]

  used like I you know it's a known known [TS]

  at this point i rented i use that I [TS]

  liked it [TS]

  the Fugees are less expensive but I [TS]

  don't mind the extra cost for the body [TS]

  especially when i'm looking it cleanses [TS]

  at all costs a bazillion dollars anyway [TS]

  still no purchases maybe I'm thinking [TS]

  about also worth pointing out as one [TS]

  person do that I also neglected to [TS]

  mention last episode the the lenses that [TS]

  I by are the full-frame lenses the fe [TS]

  line in Sony's parlance John would not [TS]

  need to buy the fe Lenzi could buy the [TS]

  crop sensor a lens's and so I like the [TS]

  lens you were just mentioning John that [TS]

  that is not available in full frame [TS]

  there is no equivalent to that for full [TS]

  frame i know that's why that's why it's [TS]

  a good [TS]

  friends like it's perfect for my camera [TS]

  that's why it's versatile lens for my [TS]

  camera is like you don't want I don't [TS]

  want to pay the amount of money i have [TS]

  to pay for a full-frame version of the [TS]

  same lens and I don't want the size that [TS]

  would bring so here's the lens made [TS]

  specifically for my size sensor that is [TS]

  very compact that has a good zoom range [TS]

  is optically pretty good [TS]

  exactly yeah so for your needs [TS]

  I i do recommend for most people that [TS]

  they like that if they have the budget [TS]

  for one of these sony a7 series full [TS]

  frame cameras to step up to it if you [TS]

  can because the quality difference is [TS]

  immense [TS]

  however for what you are using and 44 [TS]

  your stated needs for zoom lens is [TS]

  basically for really far-reaching but [TS]

  also small and somewhat affordable zoom [TS]

  lenses i would not recommend full-frame [TS]

  I think you're making the right move by [TS]

  not going full frame for that particular [TS]

  reason but it pains me to say that I [TS]

  would go full frame if the body wasn't [TS]

  so I would go for the body wasn't so big [TS]

  like I would sacrifice resume if the [TS]

  body wasn't so big and if the body [TS]

  wasn't literally three times the cost [TS]

  like it's not it's not a small price [TS]

  type a couple hundred actually about [TS]

  3,500 bucks out what everyone wanted to [TS]

  consider if if you don't want to go all [TS]

  the way to the three-thousand-dollar a7r [TS]

  to the regular a 72 without the r came [TS]

  out something like six to nine months [TS]

  earlier and I i rented one of those [TS]

  before it before his attitude to wait [TS]

  for them by the a7r to it's a v8 the [TS]

  regular a 72 is not that much more money [TS]

  than the day 6300 and it's not quite as [TS]

  advanced in some of the newer stuff like [TS]

  some of the video features and the focus [TS]

  there i think there aren't as many fate [TS]

  focus points on it i think and the burst [TS]

  mode thing and it's bigger like and I [TS]

  looked at it but the sensor for the a 72 [TS]

  it is full frame and I think it's me [TS]

  what you can get those things for what [TS]

  like like 14 or 15 hundred dollars like [TS]

  the effort for what they are they're [TS]

  incredible value right now because it's [TS]

  kind of like last year's model but still [TS]

  for sale basically that is a very good [TS]

  by if you want full frame but don't want [TS]

  to spend like three grand on it and [TS]

  compared to always felt like if you want [TS]

  full frame before the sony a series you [TS]

  had to go like-for-like you know 5d mark [TS]

  to mark 3 and those are those are like [TS]

  3,000 our cameras that you see the only [TS]

  way to get full frame like that was like [TS]

  the entry point for full frame was like [TS]

  three-thousand-dollar cannon [TS]

  big slrs to have something like the sony [TS]

  a7 series and to have their full frame [TS]

  sensor starting at like 1,500 bucks is [TS]

  amazing for for quality photography and [TS]

  for bringing it to people it's really [TS]

  quite something I'm gonna do the kc [TS]

  production and here's what's actually [TS]

  going to happen [TS]

  I'm gonna get this camera we're going to [TS]

  use your fingers the new whatever [TS]

  replaces your camera is going to come [TS]

  out and or there's going to be a [TS]

  full-frame camera and a similar form [TS]

  factor to the 6300 and several years [TS]

  after buying this camera a bunch of [TS]

  lenses i'm going to sell it all and by a [TS]

  full-frame mirrorless camera which may [TS]

  or may not be room so nice I i know [TS]

  that's gonna happen like it's inevitable [TS]

  but i'm willing to spend the three or [TS]

  four years now with this small camera as [TS]

  a transitional phase [TS]

  yeah that's totally fair honestly i [TS]

  would bet against that feat that future [TS]

  for you because like to come through [TS]

  cheap no III fair fair [TS]

  I mean that might be there might be a [TS]

  factor here but I've been talking to you [TS]

  about cameras for like two years now for [TS]

  three years now and you've never wavered [TS]

  on the point of like I I like good [TS]

  cameras but i will never buy one at that [TS]

  nice i know because it's a money pit I [TS]

  know I'm susceptible to this money but [TS]

  it and my wife made me enter it and it [TS]

  provides predicted once you have one and [TS]

  use it a lot like just it's i know i [TS]

  know myself I was trying to avoid this [TS]

  particular money pit now easing into the [TS]

  money pit and also i feel like a camera [TS]

  is like your camera is still a little [TS]

  bit in transition [TS]

  I feel like this whole mirrorless [TS]

  revolution is kind of like just getting [TS]

  going here and i wanna actually I really [TS]

  believe that you could have a decent [TS]

  full-frame camera with all of your [TS]

  features in a smaller form factor that [TS]

  has even better performance I think that [TS]

  is coming at the wait like five to seven [TS]

  years i'm willing to wait and the 6300 [TS]

  was really cool and I think all use that [TS]

  way I I'm not sure to get that much [TS]

  smaller honestly because they like like [TS]

  the the a7 line before the 272 a7r to [TS]

  the regular a7 line was a little bit [TS]

  smaller one of the reasons that had to [TS]

  get bigger was the giant embody [TS]

  stabilizer thing they're if you look at [TS]

  there's actually a teardown on iFixit of [TS]

  the a7r to there really is not a lot of [TS]

  room in there too to shrink this thing [TS]

  any further and also if they did shrink [TS]

  it further somehow that would probably [TS]

  mean an even smaller battery and that's [TS]

  the last listing needs like this [TS]

  plenty of room for more battery they [TS]

  need to talk about Apple about scallops [TS]

  batteries or something visible more [TS]

  battery man and I mean you can't change [TS]

  them [TS]

  I'm totally willing to not have the [TS]

  n-body stabilization like do the the [TS]

  6300 but with a full-frame sensor but [TS]

  without the stabilization like anyway [TS]

  I'm i believe in the future of [TS]

  technology and I believe cameras will [TS]

  get smaller and better and so i'm going [TS]

  to wait it out and he even w if you [TS]

  don't if you don't want the [TS]

  stabilization don't know how much is in [TS]

  a7r forget the first day 7 are actually [TS]

  that's a contrast only you don't want [TS]

  that but that's the old cameras slow [TS]

  slow burst mode and not as good sensor [TS]

  yeah you too you don't want contrast [TS]

  autofocus nevermind exactly forget about [TS]

  it anyway but we had enough camera talk [TS]

  at some point i'll buy something then [TS]

  we'll talk about it some more okay [TS]

  alright good talk yeah we got a bit of [TS]

  feedback with regard to qnx which is [TS]

  that real-time operating system and damn [TS]

  Dodger believes gentleman's name that [TS]

  was co-founder and is now working at [TS]

  apple an anonymous source with two [TS]

  different anonymous sources the first [TS]

  told us that the 75 that Marco had my [TS]

  335 both the eye dr systems are running [TS]

  on QX and this particular individual [TS]

  also added that there really isn't any [TS]

  requirement for real-time OS for [TS]

  infotainment it just kind of happens to [TS]

  use qnx kinda like the standard that [TS]

  everybody does [TS]

  yeah i was about to say that's [TS]

  apparently fairly popular and [TS]

  furthermore from what I understand the [TS]

  car play features that are in a lot of [TS]

  modern cars that's as a lot of that [TS]

  support happens at the QNX like os-level [TS]

  even before like the eye dr here if you [TS]

  will or level in the software and then a [TS]

  different animal source wrote us a [TS]

  really fascinating email which i'd love [TS]

  to read the whole thing but I presume [TS]

  John is called out a couple of parts [TS]

  that are that i'll read to you the [TS]

  biggest performance problem in car UI is [TS]

  usually the embedded chips that used our [TS]

  system has to work on 10 plus chipsets [TS]

  by different manufacturers car companies [TS]

  save every cent on their chipset the [TS]

  fact that some cars built today still [TS]

  have less than 20 megs ram all the ram [TS]

  costs almost nothing shows that [TS]

  perfectly [TS]

  as my head of engineering once said to [TS]

  me they'd rather spend money on three [TS]

  software engineers for two years trying [TS]

  to get that system to run as efficiently [TS]

  as possible rather than spending a few [TS]

  dollars more in each chip and that's [TS]

  because of the economy of scale that you [TS]

  know when you're building 11 gazillion [TS]

  cars a few dollars per car really starts [TS]

  to add up and I just I mean it makes [TS]

  sense but didn't really think of it that [TS]

  way until this anonymous little bird in [TS]

  and in and said that so I thought that [TS]

  was fascinating it doesn't make sense [TS]

  it's the exact definition of penny wise [TS]

  pound foolish like well okay gonna think [TS]

  like oh you're right about the math that [TS]

  how it multiplies out but you're wrong [TS]

  about their the car companies are wrong [TS]

  about the value provided by having good [TS]

  software the good software is an [TS]

  important differentiation increasingly [TS]

  important differentiator in cars and you [TS]

  saving two bucks on that chip is not [TS]

  worth the value lost to your brand like [TS]

  all the people like Marcos that you get [TS]

  drives us this you know really nice [TS]

  Mercedes but is disgusted by the [TS]

  infotainment system you spent all this [TS]

  money on this car you know so many parts [TS]

  of the Mercedes are fifty cents more [TS]

  expensive than they are other cars one [TS]

  cent more expensive one dollar more [TS]

  expensive that from like the fuel lines [TS]

  to the filters to the muffler's to every [TS]

  single part of that car is just a little [TS]

  tiny bit more expensive than honey [TS]

  that's what makes it a Mercedes the the [TS]

  software you can't treat like oh well [TS]

  we're going to 120 gigs ram because [TS]

  double the ram across three extra sense [TS]

  instead of organists we're going to [TS]

  spend you know that three engineers work [TS]

  on this and to jam the software into [TS]

  this tiny little chipset with a small [TS]

  amount of ram because hey it's cheaper [TS]

  do the math it is cheaper but you're [TS]

  making your product worse in a way that [TS]

  is way out of proportion to the money [TS]

  that you save if you just add up like [TS]

  okay two bucks two extra bucks per card [TS]

  x number of cars we sell you are adding [TS]

  so much more value to your brand as [TS]

  mercedes as a car that people want to [TS]

  buy by making decent software and you [TS]

  make business software by not making [TS]

  your software engineers past it jammed [TS]

  their software into a bunch of weird [TS]

  underpowered chipsets to the ram [TS]

  constraint is it's a terrible idea and [TS]

  you know that this email and say the [TS]

  good part is all these problems are so [TS]

  again worked on the companies creating [TS]

  simple time systems are slowly getting [TS]

  better understanding of Technology [TS]

  hurdles and some car companies really [TS]

  care are taking this away from [TS]

  third-party vendors basically take it [TS]

  in-house kinda like Tesla does so [TS]

  they're getting better about this but [TS]

  the mine [TS]

  that is like totally wrong and you know [TS]

  we're totally not blaming the people who [TS]

  make these infotainment system because [TS]

  you know as friends said they have to [TS]

  write this thing has to work on these [TS]

  terrible washing machine chipsets that [TS]

  are in these cars because they're cheap [TS]

  and of course they're terrible [TS]

  and by the way the infotainment system [TS]

  on cue next thing that was in response [TS]

  to the last episode of our BBQ and [TS]

  accents like well you don't need a [TS]

  real-time operating system for the [TS]

  entertainment you need it for like that [TS]

  self-driving car the other you know the [TS]

  automatic stopping system that prevents [TS]

  you from hitting pedestrians and other [TS]

  things that are critical they need to be [TS]

  in real time but QX is also a reliable [TS]

  popular embedded operating systems like [TS]

  they just used for the infotainment [TS]

  system stupid they're not even using [TS]

  real-time features like this was my [TS]

  question like what what is it about the [TS]

  infotainment system that needs real-time [TS]

  and answers nothing it's just you know [TS]

  it's a good embedded operating system [TS]

  with the automotive engineers are [TS]

  familiar with that runs in a runs on [TS]

  those washing machine ships with the [TS]

  tiny amount of ram so there you have it [TS]

  i should also point out that i had to [TS]

  reboot my car today [TS]

  how do you do that it happens he holds [TS]

  down a key combination right [TS]

  yes and and I should point out to this [TS]

  is the third time I've had to do this [TS]

  the instant owned the car for three [TS]

  months that you should really look at [TS]

  the ram Marco I hear that's problematic [TS]

  yeah so it's so what was the symptom so [TS]

  that the first time I had to reboot it [TS]

  so there's two screens that there's the [TS]

  screen were like the speedometer is like [TS]

  right in front of you on the little [TS]

  little dash counseling and there's the [TS]

  giant touchscreen in the middle and [TS]

  those are actually running like two [TS]

  different computers or like they like [TS]

  that the one in front of the driver is [TS]

  kind of like a sub interface that [TS]

  remotely controls the main one in the [TS]

  center and the main one in the center [TS]

  also controls all the hvac stuff all the [TS]

  media stuff and a bunch of other things [TS]

  that are not driving but a lot of other [TS]

  accessory features of the Interior so I [TS]

  went out one afternoon and the the [TS]

  driver facing one said there's a problem [TS]

  with your center console call service [TS]

  I hate talking on the phone so rather [TS]

  than calling customer service I just [TS]

  search the web for like this error [TS]

  message and found like some forums posts [TS]

  and everything's a go just reboot it and [TS]

  it took me another 10 minutes figure out [TS]

  how the heck do you reboot it and the [TS]

  way he rebooted as you like the steering [TS]

  wheel has a little like jog we on each [TS]

  side like by that by the buttons like [TS]

  for the controls and if you hold if you [TS]

  click in [TS]

  and both of those jog wheels and hold [TS]

  them in for like five seconds the center [TS]

  screen boots [TS]

  that's interesting so i had so i did [TS]

  that fix the problem i came back up [TS]

  it takes like 20 30 seconds to reboot [TS]

  came back up it was fine and then I i [TS]

  did it willingly [TS]

  about a month ago because the navigation [TS]

  when it highlights the the road you're [TS]

  supposed to drive on with a blue overlay [TS]

  sometimes if you if you zoom or pan or [TS]

  otherwise cause the map to redraw [TS]

  sometimes the blue overlay stop strong [TS]

  reliably deliver the leader omit [TS]

  sections or just not draw at all and it [TS]

  looks like it may be running a texture [TS]

  memory or something and so the texture [TS]

  just not being painted right or [TS]

  something I don't know the system is [TS]

  working enough detail to say for sure [TS]

  but it looks looks like you know some [TS]

  kind of just like you know memory leak [TS]

  bug that slowly this is stops working [TS]

  very well and actually when I had the [TS]

  service loner when I got my windshield [TS]

  replaced that car had that same symptom [TS]

  we're just wasn't drawn the overlay [TS]

  right so I know it's not just my car [TS]

  didn't have to fix in the service honor [TS]

  but now i do you could reboot and it's [TS]

  immediately better and today the center [TS]

  console you stopped responding and like [TS]

  the audio froze and it was playing over [TS]

  bluetooth so it was like cable issue and [TS]

  yet so I was like driving at the time [TS]

  like well i hope this isn't doing weird [TS]

  so I was a strategy stopped at traffic [TS]

  lights like all right good time [TS]

  older than me but it was finally get [TS]

  back up again totally fine i will say [TS]

  overall i can get you no matter what the [TS]

  subject of these entertainment systems [TS]

  it kind of annoys me that Tesla is [TS]

  working on these automatic driving [TS]

  things and pouring so much of their [TS]

  resources into that while they're there [TS]

  in car navigation and media system still [TS]

  could use a lot of improvement it's [TS]

  still pretty rudimentary it is nice and [TS]

  that it has the big touchscreen and [TS]

  everything but the the media interface [TS]

  is extremely basic it [TS]

  it supports very little of bluetooth [TS]

  audio capabilities control capabilities [TS]

  doesn't support like artwork and stuff [TS]

  like that doesn't support fast-forward [TS]

  and rewind it doesn't there's no of [TS]

  course browsing or anything no ipod [TS]

  interface no carplay so if they're there [TS]

  they're missing a lot there and then the [TS]

  navigation is also very rudimentary you [TS]

  can't set waypoints you can't like you [TS]

  know say alright we'll drive here to [TS]

  here [TS]

  use this highway or drive here but stop [TS]

  here in the middle you can't do that you [TS]

  have to just make separate trips and [TS]

  stuff like that and also the directions [TS]

  like the map the map images come from [TS]

  google but I think Tesla has its own [TS]

  Street data and texts also provides own [TS]

  navigation despite where the data is [TS]

  coming from is not using google [TS]

  navigation tell his own navigation and [TS]

  Tesla's time estimates are never right [TS]

  with traffic and it is not very good [TS]

  navigating around traffic heavy sigh [TS]

  I've made the mistake of following a [TS]

  couple times for Manhattan and it was a [TS]

  disaster every time and like it was not [TS]

  that it's not the driving to Manhattan [TS]

  had to be disaster it just made really [TS]

  bad choices when I followed them and [TS]

  then I you know I i would look over like [TS]

  if I would you stay on the highway one [TS]

  more exit i would have bypassed all of [TS]

  this that took me 40 minutes you know [TS]

  so overall Tesla's head unit is like the [TS]

  navigation system is no it's it's good i [TS]

  love having the big screen [TS]

  however I wish they'd put more resources [TS]

  into that because it seems like they [TS]

  haven't really touched that in a long [TS]

  time and and for them to be putting all [TS]

  this amazing effort into cool AI [TS]

  features that's nice from like any know [TS]

  if you look at the big picture like if [TS]

  it if these things end up saving lives [TS]

  that's awesome and that is more [TS]

  important but at the same time as a [TS]

  customer of their car i do wish the [TS]

  system was better and it is kind of [TS]

  weird that such a tech forward company [TS]

  has kind of dropped the ball on the [TS]

  basic features of their of their [TS]

  technology in the car facing the user [TS]

  you know also that the touchscreen just [TS]

  really sluggish like navigating the map [TS]

  is is very very low framerate it you [TS]

  know it's kind of like navigating like [TS]

  google maps on like a pentium 3 like if [TS]

  it's not like it's not like using an [TS]

  iPad like it's not at all like that it's [TS]

  very sluggish and there's all this all [TS]

  this latency in the interface and and [TS]

  and I you kind of expect more from car [TS]

  of that caliber some features aside I [TS]

  getting back to the rebooting your car [TS]

  and stuff you kind of well I don't start [TS]

  to separate from the features that we've [TS]

  been talking about this but I think a [TS]

  lot of regular people have this feeling [TS]

  and is easy for us to slip into it [TS]

  do is like when things were simpler and [TS]

  didn't have as much computer stuff they [TS]

  were more reliable because there are [TS]

  fewer things that can go wrong as soon [TS]

  as i started adding software to their [TS]

  stuff like we talked about this isn't [TS]

  smart TV that old smart TV post ad from [TS]

  CS so word processing software that all [TS]

  the software and just makes the thing [TS]

  less reliable and more annoying to use [TS]

  and you're doing everything that in [TS]

  terms of the basics like they've added [TS]

  by the software to the car which is good [TS]

  and they're better than a lot of other [TS]

  people but on the other hand it's also [TS]

  less reliable in my terrible terrible [TS]

  entertainment if you don't even call [TS]

  that system on my honda accord [TS]

  I've never had to reboot it but it's [TS]

  just terrible all the time so that's [TS]

  kind of like in the in-between phase [TS]

  where everything is not as simple as it [TS]

  used to be like my wife's record that [TS]

  has no infotainment screen at all that [TS]

  was you know it's simple fixed-function [TS]

  everything implemented in hardware with [TS]

  you know some very rudimentary firmware [TS]

  you would even call it no sort of [TS]

  general-purpose touch screen menu system [TS]

  software like nothing like that there's [TS]

  a bunch of cpus there's a bunch of [TS]

  memory but they're all basically like [TS]

  little embedded systems that's like as [TS]

  far as the car industry can go along the [TS]

  lines of like everything is super [TS]

  reliable and as we all know as [TS]

  programmers but it's sometimes easy to [TS]

  forget as consumers as soon as you make [TS]

  real live software like a GUI you can't [TS]

  make it the same way as an embedded [TS]

  system you have to have a GUI framework [TS]

  and an API and like you know regular [TS]

  application development for human [TS]

  interaction as opposed to this is custom [TS]

  software for this little chip that [TS]

  controls the radio and instead of you [TS]

  know it's not like the more you start [TS]

  making a platform [TS]

  the more you start making what we know [TS]

  is like a pc style platform or you build [TS]

  applications on top of where you're [TS]

  farther farther away from that ideal [TS]

  embedded system that just has like a rom [TS]

  or something you just get all the bugs [TS]

  out of it and you get a writer if there [TS]

  are bugs are known bugs were just once [TS]

  you start having real life software it's [TS]

  me there's nothing so far that we as [TS]

  humans have been able to figure out how [TS]

  to do to make that software as reliable [TS]

  as the thing without software without [TS]

  sacrificing huge things like just ok it [TS]

  will you no will do space probe [TS]

  reliability metrics but it will take us [TS]

  years and years to write a very small [TS]

  amount of [TS]

  code and the limitations are so onerous [TS]

  that no one would ever want to do [TS]

  anything that way unless you're writing [TS]

  a space problem which case you have no [TS]

  choice right but cars are not space [TS]

  probes the the the cost-benefit ratio so [TS]

  different so bottom line is once you add [TS]

  software the cars you have to reboot [TS]

  your car like it essentially that is [TS]

  inevitable at you know we do want [TS]

  software to be added to our cars because [TS]

  we think it's a better user interface [TS]

  they can do all that stuff but you'll [TS]

  have to reboot your car like there's no [TS]

  like if only you had tried harder Tesla [TS]

  then market wouldn't had to reboot his [TS]

  car like there's there's there's you [TS]

  know there's a sliding scale quality but [TS]

  a car with software it's never going to [TS]

  be as reliable as the car with the [TS]

  hardware radio because the harbor radio [TS]

  either works or it doesn't when it stops [TS]

  working throughout you put a new [TS]

  hardware radio and for the life of the [TS]

  hardware radio it doesn't change know [TS]

  for more updates is no software being [TS]

  sent to and it's doing so much less [TS]

  doing so so much less than marcos think [TS]

  it's like pulling images and doing gps [TS]

  and navigating and talking to you and [TS]

  putting images up on the screen like [TS]

  it's doing so much less like it's not as [TS]

  if you know it's this magic sauce when [TS]

  you do more stuff that's more [TS]

  complicated software has bugs the Moores [TS]

  offer you have the more bugs you have [TS]

  and until we get like a sort of emergent [TS]

  AI to write and fix our software for us [TS]

  that seems to be the way of things [TS]

  probably for most of our life so we [TS]

  should just kind of get used to this now [TS]

  the features discussion i think is a [TS]

  separation which marketing look you have [TS]

  you know you're going to have bugs you [TS]

  have a lot of software spend more time [TS]

  here instead of less of your time there [TS]

  we say the same thing about Apple [TS]

  especially on the mac like if you're not [TS]

  don't try to look for the next big [TS]

  feature dad wanted to just make all the [TS]

  features that are already there much [TS]

  more reliable and that definitely is [TS]

  possible and it is something that should [TS]

  be doing but whenever I feel like high [TS]

  and mighty about the fact that I never [TS]

  had to reboot my cord i realize it's [TS]

  only because it doesn't really have as [TS]

  much software and features as Marcos [TS]

  cards and as soon as it does it's going [TS]

  to be just as bad and you know we as [TS]

  programmers understand why that happens [TS]

  because software without bugs doesn't [TS]

  exist then more most software more bugs [TS]

  is used to get there [TS]

  well is that depressing i don't know but [TS]

  like you know that's that's the way of [TS]

  things I feel like we should understand [TS]

  that better than anyone because it's we [TS]

  can do it for a living and we know what [TS]

  it's really like [TS]

  we're sponsor tonight by hover go to [TS]

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  much to hover for sponsoring our show [TS]

  jamie is written and they asked i'm [TS]

  surprised that the clocks in different [TS]

  computer recording devices can't keep a [TS]

  can't keep frame accurate time I say [TS]

  frame since I come from the film world [TS]

  but you know accurate 224 thirtieth of a [TS]

  second [TS]

  this has been solved and sound recorders [TS]

  and cameras since the fifties and [TS]

  sixties using a quartz crystal with you [TS]

  an accuracy of a few parts per million [TS]

  computers can provide the accuracy of [TS]

  quartz watch it's so nuts market would [TS]

  you like to comment yeah so this is in [TS]

  response to my discussion about audio [TS]

  drift being a problem in Long podcast [TS]

  recordings we're basically when your [TS]

  sound card is sampling your microphone [TS]

  at 44100 times per second then over the [TS]

  course of like a two-hour recording what [TS]

  your computer thinks is the correct time [TS]

  and the number of samples is recorded [TS]

  might be off from your co-hosts computer [TS]

  by like half a second to one second and [TS]

  it just do two imprecision between the [TS]

  computers like my sound chip might just [TS]

  be you know point zero zero zero one [TS]

  percent less accurate than yours but [TS]

  when you doing [TS]

  forty-four thousand samples per second [TS]

  over two hours that could start to add [TS]

  up to something noticeable because it [TS]

  only takes like a half-second for the [TS]

  two tracks to be off before you can [TS]

  really notice it [TS]

  my reply to Jamie's feedback here is I [TS]

  don't know why they can't do it i mean [TS]

  if it's possible to do it somewhere else [TS]

  I don't know why I'm sure there's a good [TS]

  reason because it's been a problem for a [TS]

  long time [TS]

  one of the ways that this problem gets [TS]

  avoided in professional equipment with [TS]

  team is probably familiar with if you [TS]

  look at pro audio gear like really pro [TS]

  audio gear there is usually a clock [TS]

  input and output port on the back and [TS]

  there's there's something you can use [TS]

  separate devices for clock generation so [TS]

  what they do is they don't rely on [TS]

  incredible precision that to make sure [TS]

  that this device in this device have [TS]

  exactly the same precision on the clock [TS]

  ships know that is outsourced the [TS]

  problem they did they declare like one [TS]

  source of the clock rate to be [TS]

  authoritative and they just hardwired [TS]

  all to each other and say alright this [TS]

  device is providing the clock for me so [TS]

  my internal circuitry is not going to do [TS]

  it this is the Royal very little about I [TS]

  just know this exists so if I am getting [TS]

  those details wrong I apologize but [TS]

  that's the gist of it that is how that [TS]

  world deals with its not by getting [TS]

  incredibly press components it's [TS]

  simply by outsourcing the problem to one [TS]

  device and saying okay you're the master [TS]

  of the clock i put this feedback members [TS]

  i had the same question when you were [TS]

  describing and I was thinking along the [TS]

  lines of look the clocks have to be [TS]

  pretty darn accurate from one computer [TS]

  to the next could be instead that [TS]

  because again we're not using real-time [TS]

  operating systems here to record our [TS]

  audio that it's easy to miss a frame [TS]

  here and there because some other things [TS]

  happens and it's not a big deal you'll [TS]

  never notice it audio wise but if you [TS]

  add that up like in other words is [TS]

  basically a software problem and not a [TS]

  hardware problem that the quartz [TS]

  crystals and our computers are all close [TS]

  enough to each other that it wouldn't [TS]

  matter but our computers aren't hardware [TS]

  audio recording devices their general [TS]

  purpose computers and in the end it's a [TS]

  piece of software that's pulling samples [TS]

  off the bus and so many things in the [TS]

  middle of it [TS]

  missing a few things here in their cars [TS]

  but I don't I guess I wouldn't explain [TS]

  systemic drift because if it was really [TS]

  random area and it was equal a lot of [TS]

  computers maybe you would even out [TS]

  anyway I don't know the answer either [TS]

  you're serious sounds reasonable but i [TS]

  have the same questions about like look [TS]

  quartz crystals that should be accurate [TS]

  matching but then again I didn't know [TS]

  about this whole thing of having a clock [TS]

  being fed into multiple audio components [TS]

  so I don't know what to think so if you [TS]

  are an audio person who does audio on [TS]

  computers and you know the definitive [TS]

  answer please write in and tell us [TS]

  yeah that'd be great also forever it's [TS]

  worth I've always noticed that laptops [TS]

  have way more drift than desktops Mac [TS]

  Pros have way less adrift in imax like [TS]

  so it does seem to possibly be related [TS]

  to just like kind of the quality and the [TS]

  end the conditions of the components i [TS]

  once I'd like the components like a [TS]

  laptop may just be mon under more stress [TS]

  like the more likely to be thermal [TS]

  throttling up and down and doing other [TS]

  stuff like again i would imagine that [TS]

  the clock crystals inside the related [TS]

  chips and all those things are of equal [TS]

  quality but it's not it's where we are [TS]

  not solid state audio recording devices [TS]

  like a little handheld thing to do it's [TS]

  a whole computer in there so so much in [TS]

  go wrong between the samples being [TS]

  pulled off is really complicated bus and [TS]

  then going out to a file so anyway this [TS]

  right Intel's but you know we all see [TS]

  the results if you want to try the [TS]

  experiment yourself feel free do a [TS]

  double ender podcast with two friends [TS]

  across country and a laptop and try to [TS]

  put the audio together and [TS]

  realize we're multiplying margos night [TS]

  alright let's see here so one of you put [TS]

  in here and i'm quoting the arm and mac [TS]

  feedback that won't die it won't this [TS]

  key people keep suggesting it [TS]

  it's been like three months six months [TS]

  this is literally will not die and i [TS]

  feel like now final game plan we will [TS]

  address it quote it's obvious what's [TS]

  going on with the mac lineup colon total [TS]

  arm reboot this is from a tweak this is [TS]

  a concise form of what everyone is [TS]

  telling us every time we can plan out [TS]

  where the new mags why are they updated [TS]

  the mac pro was taking so long with the [TS]

  mac pro updates everything says don't [TS]

  buy and the mac buying guide thing on [TS]

  macrumors site doesn't seem like they [TS]

  care about the magnum and everyone's [TS]

  like you dummies [TS]

  it's because every single mac is being [TS]

  converted to our mother is taking a long [TS]

  time why don't understand what you don't [TS]

  realize that why don't you reply to my [TS]

  tweets all the macs are going armed [TS]

  maybe maybe all the macs are going armed [TS]

  we've just talked about that many many [TS]

  times in the past a couple things that [TS]

  have to say about that and the reason [TS]

  why we don't bring that first always [TS]

  talk about our max forever on past shows [TS]

  and all the different trade-offs [TS]

  inherited we're not going to rehash all [TS]

  that right but first of all the macs are [TS]

  going arm still kinda doesn't excuse the [TS]

  tremendous delay like look at the Intel [TS]

  transition they didn't stop selling [TS]

  powerpc macs and not update them for [TS]

  three years before the transition to x86 [TS]

  right and they knew that was coming for [TS]

  a long time you sell the old computers [TS]

  right along until you tell the world [TS]

  hey world we're changing to an [TS]

  architecture well in all fairness though [TS]

  that's a bad example because back then [TS]

  the mac was apple's main product like [TS]

  they cared a lot more about it they [TS]

  prioritize a lot more engineering-wise [TS]

  these days it doesn't seem like it is [TS]

  that high priority but it's not a high [TS]

  priority is not a primary whether it's [TS]

  changing or not and i get back the last [TS]

  week's argument of like maybe not high [TS]

  enough priority to care to switch to arm [TS]

  because then you have to develop arm [TS]

  chip suitable for all your Mac line and [TS]

  its cost a lot of money but anyway [TS]

  second thing is and the the conventional [TS]

  wisdom about the arm transition is [TS]

  available is going to convert to arm [TS]

  they have to essentially pronounce it [TS]

  because developers need to get their [TS]

  stuff together the same way they [TS]

  pronounce the x86 transition they didn't [TS]

  announce it and say and you can buy an [TS]

  x86 mac today [TS]

  nope they had to announce the developers [TS]

  first and then developers could get like [TS]

  that test hardware was like a was like a [TS]

  pentium 4 and a cheese grater case and [TS]

  all you know you could make sure you [TS]

  recompile your apps and update all the [TS]

  tools and blah blah so could be could be [TS]

  that Apple is converting their whole [TS]

  line to arm but that is not the that is [TS]

  not the obvious explanation what's going [TS]

  on and it's not even the number one most [TS]

  likely explanation is probably like the [TS]

  number two or three possible explanation [TS]

  and I would be very surprised if Apple [TS]

  is converting the entire Mac lined arm [TS]

  and didn't tell the world and developers [TS]

  before you could buy the hardware so I [TS]

  don't know anyone you have anything else [TS]

  to add about this is eternal feedback [TS]

  that that tells us we're adults are not [TS]

  realizing it's a complete army boot like [TS]

  it's a nice idea if you don't think [TS]

  about it for too long or if you're not [TS]

  familiar with this will be involved or [TS]

  or like the markets here I just don't [TS]

  think it's realistic [TS]

  I I don't think there's enough to say [TS]

  that Apple couldn't release a whole line [TS]

  of our max but that's probably good [TS]

  yeah as we've talked about and and we're [TS]

  you know we're all under the impression [TS]

  that they probably have armed os10 [TS]

  running the labs and have for some time [TS]

  they probably just maintain it as like a [TS]

  parallel just in case branch but there [TS]

  really is just not a lot of motivation [TS]

  for them to do that right now and as we [TS]

  discussed you know i'll summarize it [TS]

  briefly basically it would take a lot of [TS]

  work would have a lot of downsides and [TS]

  intelligent isn't bad enough yet [TS]

  yeah and i'm meghan everyone getting [TS]

  back to his like our max yes know [TS]

  whatever but the delay in updating all [TS]

  the max is unrelated [TS]

  because like there's no reason why you [TS]

  would say because we're doing the arm [TS]

  thing therefore we're going to delay [TS]

  it's not as if they would say we we [TS]

  don't have time to update those old [TS]

  cruddy max we're gonna take every person [TS]

  who was working on Mac hardware before [TS]

  and put them all on the Armed hard right [TS]

  then you know it's it does it doesn't [TS]

  make any sense and also because there [TS]

  had been massive delays in the past like [TS]

  the cheese grater mac pro not being [TS]

  updated forever and that wasn't [TS]

  explained by an army boot either just [TS]

  playing out like there's so many more [TS]

  explicable reasons about sky like having [TS]

  bugs and taking a long time to come out [TS]

  and being delayed and then skipping [TS]

  generations like those are the actual [TS]

  reasons why there's a delay even if they [TS]

  come out with a complete arm reboot in a [TS]

  month i will still say this theory is [TS]

  wrong [TS]

  right because all those delays were not [TS]

  related to the arm reboot they're [TS]

  related to all things we've talked about [TS]

  so many times they're not does not [TS]

  speculation that they skip generations [TS]

  they did they skip them and then it's [TS]

  not speculation that sky like it was [TS]

  delayed and had rollout problems that's [TS]

  a real thing that happened that alone is [TS]

  sufficient to explain the the delay and [TS]

  what we're complaining about in the past [TS]

  shows is Apple don't skip generations if [TS]

  you do any bump and Intel's plan makes [TS]

  your computer's embarrassingly late [TS]

  bingo and by the way update your gps [TS]

  haha in in the other thing I just want [TS]

  to throw in there really quickly is that [TS]

  it's been for me personally less than [TS]

  issues since my new job in since i'm [TS]

  doing iOS development but in my last job [TS]

  and that job or two before that as well [TS]

  as all of the developers generally [TS]

  speaking used macs but they all lived in [TS]

  vmware fusion or parallels or on [TS]

  VirtualBox if they really hated their [TS]

  lives and virtualizing against the same [TS]

  chipset is fairly easy you know to have [TS]

  OS 10 running on x86 and then virtualize [TS]

  windows which is also running on x86 [TS]

  that's fairly straightforward and easy [TS]

  if this was an armed Mac trying to [TS]

  virtualize x86 that would have just [TS]

  slowed everything down tremendously in [TS]

  all likelihood and would really be a [TS]

  potentially very bad thing for business [TS]

  users that need to have the MS even [TS]

  business users that need EMS not for [TS]

  their day-to-day but for their one old [TS]

  legacy app that only runs on ie6 and so [TS]

  they need to boot into XP in a vm to use [TS]

  that one app like that happened a lot in [TS]

  in past jobs and maybe if it's just that [TS]

  one a pin and ie6 you can deal with it [TS]

  being slow but I mean up until this job [TS]

  i lived in vmware fusion and i was [TS]

  developing in vmware fusion and it would [TS]

  probably be a lot worse if the mac in [TS]

  which i was using wasn't Intel and to [TS]

  the point that I would probably have to [TS]

  use some crappy Dowler when / or [TS]

  something like that and that would be [TS]

  just said microphone did take a run of [TS]

  his arm transition with the whatever the [TS]

  windows forearm thing for the surface [TS]

  thing and that's not going to i grant [TS]

  they did badly they didn't commit [TS]

  they're just like well we're also [TS]

  having our version of windows that's [TS]

  cool right guys and the the market was [TS]

  like not not that cool because we need [TS]

  to run or x86 software yeah the only way [TS]

  to do is the way Apple does it was like [TS]

  look for changes everything from 68 a [TS]

  powerpc get on board and if they doing [TS]

  on transition on Mac I feel like going [TS]

  to the same thing they're not gonna let [TS]

  the two computers live on which will [TS]

  mean exactly Casey said if you've gotta [TS]

  run that x86 virtualization you're gonna [TS]

  be super sad and it's the i'm not going [TS]

  to be it's not gonna be feasible it's [TS]

  gonna be like the bad old days when Iran [TS]

  virtual pc to an x86 software on powerpc [TS]

  and it was so slow just stores do you [TS]

  remember I think we talked about this [TS]

  year at some point but they had the like [TS]

  daughter cards for old old old max I [TS]

  remember hearing about this when I was a [TS]

  kid and I had like 46 is on them [TS]

  yeah yeah it's like a whole pc on a card [TS]

  yeah right well right and this was just [TS]

  so that I so that you could have a [TS]

  somewhat livable virtualization [TS]

  experience on ancient max alright one [TS]

  last piece of follow-up and then we we [TS]

  are finally done we're still fuckable I [TS]

  don't especially since we recorded what [TS]

  two nights ago three nights ago how is [TS]

  this possible these are topics come on [TS]

  these are just these are really just [TS]

  hopping all these are all I i can i can [TS]

  justify everything one of these for [TS]

  being follow-up and so can you because [TS]

  you know what they're about Apple is [TS]

  follow-up I was we talked about it last [TS]

  episode III have issues with long [TS]

  follow-up it just so happens that we [TS]

  have long following beltro and [TS]

  which we sort of kind of new and gary [TS]

  vaynerchuk i hope i pronounced that [TS]

  right you did are going to be the [TS]

  advisors for planet of the apps that was [TS]

  just announce that today or yesterday [TS]

  sometime recently as we record them [TS]

  serving as an open but with paltrow is [TS]

  going to be a mentor to the contestants [TS]

  so I guess she's there for like just [TS]

  moral support and like motivates them [TS]

  i'm not quite sure what her credentials [TS]

  are to help people develop applications [TS]

  but like you go guys anyway she's famous [TS]

  and then check it check is a PVC so he [TS]

  guesses on the b-side of the shark tank [TS]

  vents is famous person who [TS]

  likes apple whose work with Apple a lot [TS]

  on his entertainment industry person I [TS]

  guess that's relevant to building apps [TS]

  if you really entertainment and they [TS]

  will serve as advisors not sure it's [TS]

  different than a mentor [TS]

  anyway if you're wondering who they're [TS]

  going to be on the show banner check i [TS]

  could have like that's right up the the [TS]

  middle of what i was expecting like pcs [TS]

  who want to promote [TS]

  themselves in their be serious well [TS]

  their check is not quite really a VC [TS]

  he's he does his own stuff he's like a [TS]

  business consultant he came up through [TS]

  like the through wine library TV and [TS]

  then like came up and develop kind of [TS]

  dislike promotional company with like a [TS]

  bunch of his own media projects and he's [TS]

  basically media personality and a [TS]

  business speaker and business consultant [TS]

  and everything that he did you worked [TS]

  with and benjamin has a different no [TS]

  that's dancing home i believe but [TS]

  alright Eric no guarantee he he he got [TS]

  famous by having this really quite [TS]

  amazing very early video series i don't [TS]

  even know it was on you i think it was [TS]

  on youtube but i'm not positive called [TS]

  wine library TV he his family owns this [TS]

  big wine retailer in New Jersey and [TS]

  every day he would just go and do like [TS]

  this like five minute video tastes like [TS]

  featuring a couple of wires using from [TS]

  like a really like New Jersey like [TS]

  middle-class approach to wine so it's [TS]

  like very like like note like low BS [TS]

  like reviewing low-cost stuff like and [TS]

  he was very good at describing how it [TS]

  tasted like how this tastes like grass [TS]

  and like it like he was really he was [TS]

  surprisingly charismatic and excellent [TS]

  at this seemingly boring topic of wine [TS]

  reviews anyway so then his whole career [TS]

  kind of balloon after that of like you [TS]

  know being it's like an outrageous like [TS]

  loud guy who promotes stuff and talk to [TS]

  businesses about how to do stuff but [TS]

  actually i would say of the of this list [TS]

  of people he is probably by far the most [TS]

  qualified to judge people on how to [TS]

  learn how to do their app stuff below I [TS]

  i have i but i have not followed his [TS]

  work very closely recently but from what [TS]

  he is on the past he's definitely more [TS]

  related and and is better knowing like [TS]

  how to promote stuff real-time follow [TS]

  gary vaynerchuk did by Corky bought it [TS]

  from the two that up i'm dancing Roman [TS]

  dan Benjamin yeah and by the way I found [TS]

  this out by googling and the homicide [TS]

  wine cast dotnet brief aside if we could [TS]

  all go to one cast that net everybody [TS]

  and look at the logo in the upper [TS]

  left-hand corner do not make your logo [TS]

  look like a condo [TS]

  oh wow gracious that within tiny little [TS]

  sperm like [TS]

  crawling its way better job on cast [TS]

  hello I'm also seeing a PHP warning [TS]

  being admitted into the page on top [TS]

  yeah mysql don't feel it's best [TS]

  parameter 1 to be resource boolean given [TS]

  wow that's fine [TS]

  anyway that log right so yes it's [TS]

  gerrymander shock [TS]

  well i am who i believe we had already [TS]

  known was involved with this from a like [TS]

  producer standpoint or something or [TS]

  advisor something yeah and like you said [TS]

  going to show so i don't know i mean i [TS]

  don't think this is really meant for us [TS]

  and we talked about this a lot in the [TS]

  past we need to go into this too much [TS]

  but i don't think this is a showman for [TS]

  us i think it's in theory show meant for [TS]

  people who are not really in the [TS]

  industry but i'm i'm curious to see it i [TS]

  will certainly watch just like you know [TS]

  the new top here i will watch an episode [TS]

  or two and assuming it is not apple [TS]

  music so i guess maybe I can't because I [TS]

  don't subscribe to that music don't know [TS]

  if i can i will you watch it with my [TS]

  flex server you have anything that i [TS]

  will watch an episode or two and I i [TS]

  suspect it will not be very good but you [TS]

  know what you don't know until you try [TS]

  so we'll see what happens I watching for [TS]

  Gary Vee I like him so i will gladly [TS]

  watch it for him [TS]

  fair enough all right at this point I [TS]

  think we are officially out of follow-up [TS]

  so what else is awesome these days who [TS]

  need a break in a cigarette now I don't [TS]

  smoke [TS]

  neither one of us do but i can see John [TS]

  like sneaking under the under the deck [TS]

  or something [TS]

  smoking another least likely thing that [TS]

  will ever see me doing the height of if [TS]

  any of the three of us had a secret [TS]

  smoking habit [TS]

  John be by far the most amusing 12 have [TS]

  to goodness this smoking out like under [TS]

  the tree to drop the acorns hitting [TS]

  every so often thought to be the trees [TS]

  all the trees defeated for the most part [TS]

  all that the limbs are cut off one [TS]

  questionable then when I look up might [TS]

  still be in line of sight but a lot of [TS]

  that tree is all gone [TS]

  that's ok we solve that problem before I [TS]

  want for my wife's new accord not safe [TS]

  for ferrari because I don't you want to [TS]

  leave that outside in the winter and you [TS]

  don't squeeze it into my garage [TS]

  ok [TS]

  we also sponsor this week by Harry's go [TS]

  to Harry's dot-com / ATP to five dollars [TS]

  off your first purchase no reason [TS]

  companies keep putting out new models [TS]

  and raising their already high prices [TS]

  well Harry's does not believe in up [TS]

  charging they just made a bunch of [TS]

  improvements to their razors and they're [TS]

  keeping prices exactly the same so it's [TS]

  still just two dollars per blade [TS]

  cartridge compared to four or more [TS]

  dollars you will pay for the big brands [TS]

  of the drugstore so he's five blade [TS]

  razors now these new improvements now [TS]

  include they still the same five blades [TS]

  they now have a softer flex hinge for [TS]

  more comfortable glide they have a [TS]

  trimmer blade for hard-to-reach places [TS]

  they have a lubricating strip on one [TS]

  side and a textured handle for more [TS]

  control when it's wet so that it had [TS]

  like a rubber grip on the handle now so [TS]

  Harry's was founded by two friends to [TS]

  offer people a great shave at fair [TS]

  prices razors they were there they [TS]

  market them mostly towards men however [TS]

  we hear from lots of women [TS]

  these are really unisex razors and women [TS]

  can women use them too and they are [TS]

  great for both now qualities a hundred [TS]

  percent guaranteed if you don't love [TS]

  your shade Harry's will fully refund [TS]

  your money and these these blades are [TS]

  made in this incredible German blade [TS]

  factory that Harry's bought and they [TS]

  sell their own razors direct from this [TS]

  factory and because of selling directly [TS]

  on the factory and there's no retailer [TS]

  anything else they literally charge you [TS]

  half the price or less of what you're [TS]

  paying at the drugstore for similar for [TS]

  similar blades from big brands forget [TS]

  the starter set today this to the harry [TS]

  started as an amazing deal you get a [TS]

  weighted razor handle of your choice [TS]

  moisturizing shave cream three [TS]

  precision-engineered five blade [TS]

  cartridges and travel cover off for just [TS]

  15 bucks and that's 15 bucks at the [TS]

  regular price but again if you go to [TS]

  Harry's calm / ATP you will get five [TS]

  dollars off your first purchase that [TS]

  means you could get this article for [TS]

  just ten bucks that would be ten bucks [TS]

  to cover handle shaving cream and three [TS]

  blade cartridges [TS]

  that's incredible that's incredible deal [TS]

  so right now go to Harry's calm / ATP to [TS]

  claim that deal that's Harry's calm / [TS]

  ATP thanks a lot [TS]

  there's a rumor that apple has pivoted [TS]

  their brand a hand is going to be taking [TS]

  a different approach to the apple TV as [TS]

  in like the setup the the television set [TS]

  sort of that again again recode reports [TS]

  that they're going to make the most [TS]

  baller TV Guide ever at the growth [TS]

  industry the right and I guess the plan [TS]

  is to be able to let you search and no [TS]

  matter where the thing you're looking [TS]

  for maybe get paid or not or whatever it [TS]

  will figure out a way to get it to you [TS]

  presumably through your existing [TS]

  accounts like Netflix whatever which i [TS]

  think it can do already but also perhaps [TS]

  by partnerships with some of the [TS]

  traditional TV folks like maybe ABC or [TS]

  CBS or something like that so I mean [TS]

  this is kinda cool and I would certainly [TS]

  be interested in it but I mean like you [TS]

  said Marko this is I don't know TV I [TS]

  don't want to say it's not long for this [TS]

  world because I mean it's been around [TS]

  for a long time on Cinco see it going [TS]

  away that soon but I mean is this the [TS]

  the sign of major changes and how we [TS]

  consume our television I mean that in [TS]

  netflix and and and an Amazon creating [TS]

  their own television shows and I what do [TS]

  you think this seems like kind of [TS]

  extension of what they're already trying [TS]

  to do with the apple TV they already [TS]

  have Universal Search and it is i think [TS]

  it is still limited to partners only on [TS]

  the appletv at least it's not an iOS app [TS]

  so that they already have like you know [TS]

  cross provider search with Cirie and and [TS]

  being being able to search for a TV show [TS]

  or movie or whatever and say alright [TS]

  well it's available on netflix on HBO go [TS]

  and for my to like they can already list [TS]

  all this like that's already there so if [TS]

  this is just kind of an extension of [TS]

  that our expansion of that that's great [TS]

  you know that's that's good [TS]

  I i would question their ability to get [TS]

  these deals though because it seems like [TS]

  we've been hearing reports for what [TS]

  three years now that Apple keeps trying [TS]

  to make like a TV service like one grand [TS]

  new TV service to rule them all [TS]

  oh you know or something along those [TS]

  lines [TS]

  honestly I you know like there's a story [TS]

  writers making fun of you know last week [TS]

  whenever about it about a eq walk into [TS]

  the meeting with TV executives wearing [TS]

  like shoes without socks and a Hawaiian [TS]

  shirt and jeans whatever whatever it was [TS]

  and apples basically like you know where [TS]

  Apple screw you [TS]

  method of negotiation with TV companies [TS]

  and who knows that was real or not you [TS]

  know we don't really know and how [TS]

  accurate that was you know those a story [TS]

  source from TV executives by the way [TS]

  exactly so like of course they're gonna [TS]

  say the other side was unreasonable in [TS]

  our negotiation and they were the wrong [TS]

  clothes [TS]

  exactly so chances are you know it [TS]

  those details are probably probably not [TS]

  a hundred percent accurate but it was [TS]

  probably just a bit you know like it [TS]

  there is very likely that was the gist [TS]

  of what happened and we've heard similar [TS]

  attitudes we've heard of that before [TS]

  from both a DQ and apple so it wouldn't [TS]

  surprise me if this is if the gist of [TS]

  this is true i would say that the TV TV [TS]

  companies are being more unreasonable [TS]

  these scenarios that like it from if you [TS]

  are as he becomes it seems like apples [TS]

  being unreasonable because Apple is not [TS]

  budging on things they want you to do [TS]

  that you're never gonna do but if you [TS]

  were to be a third party outside [TS]

  observer and say what things are TV the [TS]

  TV people never going to do what things [TS]

  apple want you would say it's probably [TS]

  better for everyone involved [TS]

  at least it's probably better for us as [TS]

  the consumer if you if TV companies you [TS]

  did what Apple s but the question is is [TS]

  it better for the TV companies and maybe [TS]

  maybe not so that's why we don't have a [TS]

  deal [TS]

  well that's the thing i mean like we've [TS]

  heard for years now that Apple is you [TS]

  know there's they're working on that on [TS]

  this new thing and the details with a [TS]

  new thing is shift slightly over time [TS]

  but the just has been the same they're [TS]

  working on some kind of TV plan that [TS]

  unifies multiple TV sources and [TS]

  something rather you know whether thats [TS]

  related to the new Apple TV or not [TS]

  that's been the plan for years now and [TS]

  it just seems like they aren't getting [TS]

  the deals and so maybe this approach [TS]

  they're taking two deal-making they're [TS]

  walking in there as though they own the [TS]

  place and I think at one time in like [TS]

  maybe they did at one time have that [TS]

  kind of power in certain industries but [TS]

  I think it's pretty clear that what [TS]

  they're doing isn't working and so when [TS]

  we see another report that says i will [TS]

  now the new thing is they're gonna be [TS]

  this this version of this [TS]

  man well show me show me any evidence [TS]

  from the past that we should believe [TS]

  that on this like there there's nothing [TS]

  well that that's why they are pivoting [TS]

  though because they failed with the [TS]

  press departures are not sticking to the [TS]

  past approaches there are pivoting and [TS]

  trying new things but like I in some [TS]

  respects I think Apple still feels like [TS]

  time is on their side and they may be [TS]

  right because the holdouts and all this [TS]

  are not the netflixs of the world but [TS]

  it's like the ABC NBC disney you know [TS]

  CBS like those are the the difficult [TS]

  ones there and all local television and [TS]

  all the deals we don't think so [TS]

  apples apples most recent pivot that we [TS]

  have in front of us and our houses now [TS]

  is like the future if you use apps and [TS]

  we make apple TV and on your Apple TV [TS]

  you can find an app for Major League [TS]

  Baseball you can find the NFL app you [TS]

  can find out for ABC CBS netflix [TS]

  Showtime HBO like that's what you can [TS]

  find and this I wouldn't even call this [TS]

  a pivot but this latest rumor is [TS]

  basically that Apple's new approach sort [TS]

  of their version of the omnivorous box [TS]

  that talked about in the last show like [TS]

  we will take an all content and provide [TS]

  you one unified interface like the [TS]

  current apple TV is like here's your [TS]

  unified interface it's a bunch of [TS]

  rounded rectangles is not a great [TS]

  unified interface and you can do see [TS]

  research across them and you know like [TS]

  like as this article says like they [TS]

  already have a thing where people who [TS]

  make the disney a poor the ESPN app or [TS]

  the NFL app if you use apples api's and [TS]

  make your information searchable that [TS]

  when you say show me whatever that the [TS]

  appletv can search across all of them [TS]

  but it's not quite the same as a TV [TS]

  Guide like a lot of what a lot of people [TS]

  want to do do is say what's on or [TS]

  whatever that the series that are [TS]

  currently running that are popular like [TS]

  we can imagine a much better interface [TS]

  to television uh that is independent of [TS]

  where the show has come from tivo does [TS]

  this as many people are running about 20 [TS]

  people has a thing where you can search [TS]

  for stuff and it's like here's the show [TS]

  is airing these episodes these five or [TS]

  streaming you this season passes show [TS]

  but different icons to see where you can [TS]

  get them from but like that's what we [TS]

  all want we don't want to have to switch [TS]

  inputs you on one unified interest [TS]

  everything the old way which apple [TS]

  declined to participate in which is [TS]

  still think would have been a good idea [TS]

  because it shows so far no one has been [TS]

  able to do it so they could have been [TS]

  doing that old thing anyway is to just [TS]

  be a box it takes input from all the [TS]

  different places but nowadays TV doesn't [TS]

  come from all these different sources [TS]

  from cable from these are like it comes [TS]

  the increasingly across the internet but [TS]

  there's still this whole things that [TS]

  come across you know that all the [TS]

  television networks as you still have [TS]

  the [TS]

  similar on the response program but [TS]

  Apple has been able to persuade the [TS]

  networks of the most part to put apps on [TS]

  their platform like we're getting close [TS]

  guys right all we need to do the last [TS]

  thing is to give people like a unified [TS]

  interface to that call that programming [TS]

  across all these apps only instead of [TS]

  the interface being here is a bunch of [TS]

  rounded rectangles arrangement how you [TS]

  want and pick the one you want or [TS]

  talking to this terrible remote control [TS]

  and try to find the show you want we [TS]

  want to provide more people are kind of [TS]

  used to like a guide maybe doesn't look [TS]

  like the big grid or whatever and we [TS]

  will we will be the face of television [TS]

  two people in the same way that tebow is [TS]

  the face of television anyone who had [TS]

  tivo especially days before streaming [TS]

  services but even with the streaming [TS]

  services kind of course but you gotta go [TS]

  find the client but anyway Apple wants [TS]

  to be the face of television the one [TS]

  unified interface the one box you never [TS]

  changing but it's always an opportunity [TS]

  to watch whatever you want to do that [TS]

  they need to make deals the deals are [TS]

  not happening because most deals are [TS]

  probably not in the interest of the [TS]

  networks and you can imagine for the [TS]

  network like if your only interest was [TS]

  we are the network we want to survive as [TS]

  a thing that can extract money I think [TS]

  there's a lot of problems that long term [TS]

  anyway but it's a never-give-up the [TS]

  primacy [TS]

  primacy [TS]

  of you know that never give up the [TS]

  interface to television to apple like [TS]

  don't don't let them be the face of [TS]

  television they are just decreasing your [TS]

  value making you just one more source of [TS]

  content and then the only value have is [TS]

  your ability to produce quality content [TS]

  that people want to watch and network [TS]

  television are for the most part is [TS]

  terrified of that because historically [TS]

  have not been really good at that and [TS]

  it's only because of the legacy of the [TS]

  fact that they have the certain [TS]

  frequencies in the airwaves that their [TS]

  ABC NBC CBS and you know fox or whatever [TS]

  and all the Fox could arguably got its [TS]

  place by having quality content they're [TS]

  being out completed by HBO and Netflix [TS]

  and Amazon for crying out loud in some [TS]

  cases in the hey can we make interesting [TS]

  content that people want to watch if [TS]

  that's the only competition if it's like [TS]

  apples the interface and the program's [TS]

  come from the services that you pay for [TS]

  and you pay for the service that has the [TS]

  show's you want the networks are like [TS]

  little people are gonna pay to watch [TS]

  NCIS colon some other word people are [TS]

  really old and they're dying and [TS]

  everyone else is watching you know game [TS]

  of thrones on streaming services and so [TS]

  the course to clarify that future but in [TS]

  the meantime that basically means that [TS]

  Apple strategy of like we are the [TS]

  unified interface to all your television [TS]

  is a no-go because there's still enough [TS]

  television particularly live television [TS]

  local news and sports that is tied up [TS]

  between between behind owners and [TS]

  contracts for companies that don't want [TS]

  to be basically disenfranchised so i [TS]

  don't know if this latest strategy of [TS]

  Apple is Iran I guess it's better than [TS]

  the old ones at least you can do [TS]

  something but I don't know if he's ever [TS]

  going to work and I think the whole like [TS]

  we'll finally we don't have a deal that [TS]

  was trying to wait them out it's like [TS]

  look we don't have to do anything [TS]

  network television everything netflix [TS]

  and HBO and showtime and amazon and AMC [TS]

  and all these other cable companies are [TS]

  just nibbling get coming at you from all [TS]

  sides [TS]

  they're making better content there's [TS]

  more of them people who are willing to [TS]

  pay for their services where is the only [TS]

  willing to pay for you as part of a [TS]

  bundle you get to be over the air but [TS]

  that like all this legacy stuff like [TS]

  we'll just wait out and so I feel like [TS]

  Apple is walking away from the table [TS]

  with your flip-flops and hawaiian-style [TS]

  shirt and saying all right let me try [TS]

  made we made another run out of this [TS]

  time but time is on our side every for [TS]

  every year you refuse to do a deal with [TS]

  us your competitors make you less and [TS]

  less relevant [TS]

  and when the generation of kids that's [TS]

  born today grows up they're not gonna [TS]

  care what the hell you are and all their [TS]

  shows are going to be another networks [TS]

  and once that happens we have good [TS]

  relationships with the netflixs of the [TS]

  world and they're already honor at [TS]

  platform we just need to make really [TS]

  good at platform they haven't quite done [TS]

  that yet but in the meantime we will [TS]

  just keep sliding that terrible remote [TS]

  around are rectangles being careful not [TS]

  to ever touch while watching TV don't [TS]

  touch it you messed everything up [TS]

  honestly I do you do you think this is [TS]

  more about UI control or more about just [TS]

  money if I had to take yes I don't think [TS]

  the TV's give it two craps about the UI [TS]

  I think it's all about it all comes down [TS]

  to money [TS]

  yep it's not that it's not all the money [TS]

  is the reason Apple into the deal [TS]

  because they the other companies won't [TS]

  do a deal that Apple Apple want to do is [TS]

  palatable to customers and the parties [TS]

  have to be involved in that deal want [TS]

  more money like Apple have to charge you [TS]

  much more that's why this is never that [TS]

  that's basically it comes down to see [TS]

  right does come down to money but like [TS]

  why do the the network's want so much [TS]

  money because they don't it's it's not [TS]

  like the USA just don't want to be taken [TS]

  out of the equation they want to be them [TS]

  they want you to go to move your little [TS]

  rectangle to go to the ABC app they want [TS]

  you to know that ABC is a thing a brand [TS]

  that means something that the shows on [TS]

  ABC like they don't want you to just say [TS]

  what's on and see a giant [TS]

  undifferentiated great with maybe an ABC [TS]

  logo somewhere on it and just say this [TS]

  is all television and i will pick the [TS]

  show I want to watch because again that [TS]

  reduces them entirely to the quality of [TS]

  the shows they produce and they don't [TS]

  want that because they need they need [TS]

  the the other intangible BS branding [TS]

  stuff to prop up the fact that they make [TS]

  more shows than other people like they [TS]

  did it used to be the fact that like [TS]

  they are channel 4 and they come over [TS]

  the airwaves and they're one of the five [TS]

  sets of channels that coming good on [TS]

  your little rabbit ears and therefore [TS]

  they have a default importance that you [TS]

  cannot argue with even if all their [TS]

  shows are crap if they're just another [TS]

  provider of video behind a unified [TS]

  interface undifferentiated on made not [TS]

  any different than any of the other [TS]

  services that some of which may not even [TS]

  be recording corte-real TV stations like [TS]

  Amazon that's not good for them so [TS]

  that's you know that you're right the [TS]

  money i think is definitely a part of NY [TS]

  the deals don't happen but why they want [TS]

  so much money what's the big deal [TS]

  because if if they're going to give up [TS]

  that role they want to be paid for [TS]

  handsomely because you know [TS]

  they're CBS or whatever I feel like this [TS]

  is AT&T the iphone or singular at the [TS]

  time in the iphone all over again it's [TS]

  not exactly analogous because i think it [TS]

  to my recollection AT&T or singular the [TS]

  time was was really not doing terribly [TS]

  well in verizon's just eating their [TS]

  lunch and I think they were kind of on [TS]

  the ropes and knew it and to their [TS]

  credit they have the wherewithal to know [TS]

  that they were on the ropes and make [TS]

  this really onerous deal with Apple from [TS]

  their perspective but it ended up paying [TS]

  out for them big time and I I can't help [TS]

  but wonder who's going to be the [TS]

  singular of the big American TV channels [TS]

  you know the Fox ABC CBS and NBC you [TS]

  know who's gonna be the first one of [TS]

  them to to to say uncle and and make a [TS]

  deal it will that be better that way [TS]

  will it be worse will they will they end [TS]

  up becoming you know more popular and [TS]

  rolling in cash or they just gonna be [TS]

  you know hastening their own demise when [TS]

  the difference here is like you only [TS]

  need one cell carrier [TS]

  yeah exactly like once you've got the [TS]

  cell carrier now you it now you have an [TS]

  iphone as a product but until you get [TS]

  them all its kind of the music labels of [TS]

  itunes the itunes music store had rolled [TS]

  out with some of the labels but not [TS]

  other ones and stuff but honestly I we [TS]

  have not seen Apple score a lot of great [TS]

  content deals in recent years I i really [TS]

  do question whether you know I I don't [TS]

  obviously you know anything we hear what [TS]

  this deal is always liked rumor and [TS]

  speculation and everything because [TS]

  they're not going to talk about how they [TS]

  went or anything but it just seems like [TS]

  what Apple's negotiating position might [TS]

  just be wrong or or you know possibly [TS]

  too arrogant or asking too much or [TS]

  whatever whatever the conditions are but [TS]

  it depends if you think its time is on [TS]

  their side if you think time is on our [TS]

  side like the longer we wait the [TS]

  stronger the next time we come to the [TS]

  table we will be even stronger because [TS]

  you will have been weakened by your your [TS]

  internet native competitors like and I [TS]

  think that's been true every time that [TS]

  Apple has gone back table they have been [TS]

  in a stronger position because the [TS]

  networks have been in a weaker position [TS]

  not because of anything Apple did but [TS]

  because of what the competitors to the [TS]

  networks have done so i think i mean you [TS]

  may argue if they don't make a deal then [TS]

  someone else will come and and sweet [TS]

  this way but they [TS]

  they are developing the appletv it is [TS]

  improving unlike you know some other [TS]

  products they might have might have [TS]

  where you know the Apple he wasn't a [TS]

  drought and now it's sort of on the [TS]

  track again it's just a question of [TS]

  whether someone else is going to get [TS]

  their first in it but nobody likes far [TS]

  as I'm or nobody has deals with every [TS]

  call these networks because because of [TS]

  the the itunes thing everyone is scared [TS]

  to be like as an industry we can't all [TS]

  signed a deal with one company because [TS]

  that takes way too much power so let's [TS]

  all just bargain individually with each [TS]

  things like hulu is everything was [TS]

  beyond who's that NBC or comcast come [TS]

  you know table town whatever it's it's [TS]

  balkanize because everyone's afraid to [TS]

  give one technology company too much [TS]

  power but I i don't know i'm i'm kind of [TS]

  in favor of not doing a deal that is [TS]

  unfair business they do that deal like [TS]

  financially speaking to have to take a [TS]

  loss on every subscription or they would [TS]

  have to make it too expensive and will [TS]

  be unappealing like they have to [TS]

  undercut cables what they have to do [TS]

  they have to be able to offer a thing [TS]

  that's like this is like cable but [TS]

  either cheaper and way better or way [TS]

  better and around the same price they [TS]

  can't say this is like cable but [TS]

  twenty-five percent more but hey there's [TS]

  a bunch of good features because no [TS]

  one's going to go for that [TS]

  alright so apple today has a Down store [TS]

  let's slip i'm not entirely clear what [TS]

  happened here but announced a deal was [TS]

  announced today because i saw a tweet [TS]

  fly by somebody taking like a picture of [TS]

  a slide at some conference or something [TS]

  like that and so I wasn't sure if this [TS]

  likely or if it was formally announced [TS]

  anyway Apple I guess announced that they [TS]

  are doing a bug bounty program and so if [TS]

  you're not familiar with what that is [TS]

  basically that means if you find a bug [TS]

  in some of apple's code and I and the [TS]

  specifics no change your company but [TS]

  generally speaking the way it works is [TS]

  if you can exercise it and show Apple [TS]

  rather than you letting it out into the [TS]

  wild [TS]

  if you come to a pond say hey I found a [TS]

  bug here's how you exercise it and you [TS]

  do the right thing in quotes then they [TS]

  will pay you in some cases a tremendous [TS]

  amount of money for having done the [TS]

  right thing and brought that bug to them [TS]

  and and not just used it for nefarious [TS]

  purposes and what it was also [TS]

  interesting apparently if you choose to [TS]

  donate the money that they give you [TS]

  which in some cases is up to [TS]

  hundred thousand dollars they will match [TS]

  that donation 141 so that two hundred [TS]

  thousand dollars hypothetically becomes [TS]

  four hundred thousand dollars [TS]

  I i think this is a great thing the the [TS]

  prices the relative prices i thought [TS]

  were a little bit weird like $20,000 was [TS]

  for like the bootloader something like [TS]

  that if you're there are something [TS]

  pretty low level which made sense but [TS]

  but like the secure Enclave was was half [TS]

  that or maybe even a quarter that which [TS]

  struck me as very weird i would assume [TS]

  that the scare enclave if you found a [TS]

  bug in that would be worth easily as [TS]

  much as the as the the most the the [TS]

  highest reward is easily worth 200 you [TS]

  have to price them not just how valuable [TS]

  it is to find the vulnerability but how [TS]

  how difficult it translates to how many [TS]

  vulnerabilities you think people will [TS]

  find so it's kind of depressing like [TS]

  what is it sandboxing vulnerabilities [TS]

  only 25k sandbox tomorrow glories are [TS]

  serious but I think Apple think that's [TS]

  probably a lot of them and they're [TS]

  probably not as hard to find as boot [TS]

  from vulnerability so it's a balancing [TS]

  act of like how do you price these [TS]

  things you can't just price them and how [TS]

  important they are [TS]

  if you're kind of afraid that you have [TS]

  like tons of sandboxing books because [TS]

  you will you know its 200-day each and [TS]

  you get 300 of them [TS]

  that's our stand-up you even apple [TS]

  doesn't like to just give away money but [TS]

  the charity thing is a total Apple move [TS]

  to kind of guilt you into not keeping [TS]

  the money yourself by by spending even [TS]

  more of their own money is this has been [TS]

  I think we had something way way down [TS]

  the showings someone can find and delete [TS]

  later about you know the problem with [TS]

  apple is that they don't have bug bounty [TS]

  programs every other companies bug [TS]

  bounty programs and so people find bugs [TS]

  and apple stuff and it's more valuable [TS]

  to the people find the bugs to like sell [TS]

  it to jailbreak people or use it for [TS]

  malware that is to go to apple because [TS]

  from Apple you get nothing [TS]

  you don't even get like thank you like [TS]

  you just turn into a black hole they [TS]

  don't fix it for a year and then you [TS]

  fret about whether you feel really good [TS]

  the White had people like I sent you [TS]

  this out this bug apple for free it's [TS]

  super serious i have a suspicion that [TS]

  I'm not the only person in the world who [TS]

  knows it I haven't told anybody but if I [TS]

  know it probably means the bad guys know [TS]

  it too and it's been six months since i [TS]

  reported to you and I've heard nothing [TS]

  if I don't hear from you soon I'm gonna [TS]

  tell the world hey guys you all have a [TS]

  phone it's normal to this exploit and [TS]

  chances are good the bad guys already [TS]

  know about it [TS]

  and then I look at the cranky about that [TS]

  Ryu disclosing and then the people like [TS]

  well why don't you fix the damn bug and [TS]

  people have vulnerable phones and anyway [TS]

  the bug bounty program adjust the [TS]

  incentives to to make things nicer they [TS]

  have an incentive to give it to apple [TS]

  apple has an incentive to do something [TS]

  about it i suppose and they you know [TS]

  it's it's more likely it makes it more [TS]

  valuable than even the bad guys will say [TS]

  I found this exploit how can i make the [TS]

  most money from it's like you know what [TS]

  I can make 200k right now guaranteed if [TS]

  I do this and I just give it to apple so [TS]

  i hope this works and by the way this [TS]

  was announced at the black hat [TS]

  conference which is big you know as the [TS]

  name implies a hacker conference or [TS]

  security vulnerabilities and stuff as [TS]

  far as I'm aware apple has not had a [TS]

  pee-pee made any formal presence or [TS]

  particularly prominent former presidents [TS]

  like their their relationship with the [TS]

  community the security community has [TS]

  been sort of standoffish you know as [TS]

  evidence by not having a bug bounty [TS]

  program and people being cranky about [TS]

  sending example and not hearing anything [TS]

  and this is just another day it's about [TS]

  it it's about as friendly as they've [TS]

  been to the developer community [TS]

  well it's a little bit worse because [TS]

  when you find a security vulnerability [TS]

  apples kinda angry about it like they're [TS]

  they're not particularly grateful and [TS]

  security researchers like have done that [TS]

  thing where they said i sent this to [TS]

  apple ID responsible to the disclosure [TS]

  but you haven't done anything so i'm [TS]

  going to announce it to the world and [TS]

  apples like don't announce it to the [TS]

  world we hate you now it's like but i [TS]

  found this bug and anyway it's a front [TS]

  relationship but this is another tiny [TS]

  step along the line of Tim Cook's more [TS]

  open apple the Apple sins wasn't there [TS]

  their head of security engineering to [TS]

  blackhat to speak there to represent [TS]

  apple and to say here we have this thing [TS]

  that everyone else in the world has had [TS]

  forever you know they're playing [TS]

  catch-up but this is Apple being more [TS]

  open and doing more of the things that [TS]

  everyone said they should always do so [TS]

  thumbs up [TS]

  yeah this is this is only good things it [TS]

  is kind of embarrassing that this wasn't [TS]

  already in place given the rest of the [TS]

  market however this is great progress [TS]

  and better doing it [TS]

  yep I I completely echo what you guys [TS]

  said I'm i can't believe it's taken this [TS]

  long but at least I got there [TS]

  that's what matters one more thing on [TS]

  this has some of the chatroom pointed [TS]

  out and storming out like it's baby [TS]

  steps [TS]

  this is not a programmer anybody finds [TS]

  about reported to us it's an invite only [TS]

  Graham where you find a bug if you are [TS]

  among this class of people that apple [TS]

  says you are we find you are trustworthy [TS]

  and you have the skills so please send [TS]

  us a bug but there's also things i think [TS]

  this is from Gruber site said sources [TS]

  that Apple mentioned if someone outside [TS]

  the program discovers an exponent of one [TS]

  of these classes they could be added to [TS]

  the program so it doesn't really close [TS]

  and I don't understand that make sense [TS]

  like it's closed it's not it's like [TS]

  what's close but if you find a [TS]

  vulnerability will add you to the group [TS]

  that's close so i guess if you can [TS]

  demonstrate that you're a good guy [TS]

  by giving them an important bugs will [TS]

  put you into the program but then do you [TS]

  not get paid for the bug to put u amp [TS]

  apple apple the Apple and I guess I can [TS]

  help you could just make it up and [TS]

  everybody but they don't but it's kinda [TS]

  open so anyway maybe next year we'll be [TS]

  announcing that black hat the bug bounty [TS]

  program is open to everybody just like [TS]

  everyone else's bug bounty program but [TS]

  they would keep 30-percent yeah right [TS]

  what how we respond to this week by [TS]

  linode go to / ATP for a [TS]

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  accidental podcast 10 linode is a [TS]

  webhost they have these linux VPS is and [TS]

  i use them myself and i have used them [TS]

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  were sponsored and they've been sponsor [TS]

  for like a few months I've used them for [TS]

  years and icons they say they are my [TS]

  favorite web host have ever used that's [TS]

  why i keep using them for everything all [TS]

  over catches hosted their like my site [TS]

  is hosted their you know maybe somebody [TS]

  will be hosted there as well if ever get [TS]

  around to it it's it's a great service [TS]

  plans are just ten dollars a month for [TS]

  your own private VPS you have root [TS]

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  you never liked paid more than what the [TS]

  monthly rate would be they have amazing [TS]

  add-on services they have backups load [TS]

  balancers that they called node [TS]

  balancers they have these long view [TS]

  stats and you can get a server running [TS]

  at load in under a minute it is so easy [TS]

  and it's they have the best control [TS]

  panel their use of anyone posting [TS]

  believe me i use a lot of weapons [TS]

  control panels and [TS]

  most of them i would not say anything [TS]

  nice about it all linode is actually a [TS]

  pleasure to use it really is quite good [TS]

  you can do so many things in these [TS]

  things course you can run websites you [TS]

  can run services you can also do things [TS]

  like gonna get server if you if you're a [TS]

  developer you want to run your own [TS]

  source control servers have your control [TS]

  over that you could do that to you can [TS]

  run VMS you can run containers there's [TS]

  so much you can do it linode it's having [TS]

  your own server and it's great [TS]

  the support is great if you that before [TS]

  I really really enjoyed and they're not [TS]

  paying me to say that they can't be me [TS]

  to say that I'm saying anyway because [TS]

  that's how much I enjoy it i'm so happy [TS]

  to finally sponsor they now have in [TS]

  credit their prices always been good but [TS]

  it gets better like every every [TS]

  Lightyear so they do hardware updates [TS]

  and stuff and they just make their plans [TS]

  better at for the same prices it's so [TS]

  great so they now offer for ten dollars [TS]

  a month a VPS with two gigs of ram you [TS]

  can do a lot actually have six of those [TS]

  doing on my feet crawling because for 10 [TS]

  bucks a month wait why not that i don't [TS]

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  go to that's al ino de cama [TS]

  clinics you know [TS] / ATP and use promo code [TS]

  accidental podcast ten for ten dollar [TS]

  credit thanks a lot to learn for [TS]

  sponsoring our show in a final note for [TS]

  today's episode [TS]

  speaking of things that are taking a [TS]

  long time diversity dapple progress [TS]

  it seems is being made i was looking at [TS]

  these numbers yet when they were [TS]

  released a day or two ago and it didn't [TS]

  seem like things were too terribly Rosie [TS]

  like a year-on-year and trying to find [TS]

  which specifically number was but i [TS]

  can't at the moment but supposed to say [TS]

  apples released their annual semiannual [TS]

  diversity page and diversity numbers and [TS]

  with one of the more impressive things [TS]

  that I think we definitely need to [TS]

  applaud is that they had claimed to have [TS]

  one hundred percent pay equity across [TS]

  all of apple's so that any any job that [TS]

  a woman would do that man would do those [TS]

  two people should make the exact same [TS]

  amount of money for doing that exactly [TS]

  job and of course that's everything is [TS]

  open to interpretation so it's hard to [TS]

  say whether or not that's really real [TS]

  but that [TS]

  but Apple is claiming an end is [TS]

  asserting that that's the case so i mean [TS]

  that's that's stupendous [TS]

  oh they're here is the number that i [TS]

  didn't like was data from last three [TS]

  years most way down the page 2015 [TS]

  fifty-four percent of apples white 2016 [TS]

  fifty-six percent of apples white which [TS]

  is not getting more diverse that's [TS]

  getting less diverse so that's not good [TS]

  but there I I'm nitpicking perhaps on [TS]

  one particular data point but you know [TS]

  that's one percent less male-dominated [TS]

  we went from sixty-nine percent to sixty [TS]

  percent which is an improvement and one [TS]

  thing that they've made very clear on [TS]

  this site is that they're they're hiring [TS]

  practices are changing so it says are [TS]

  hiring trend over the past three years [TS]

  we are steadily attracting more and more [TS]

  under-represented talents global female [TS]

  new hires in 2014's 31-percent 2016 is [TS]

  thirty-seven percent and the u.s. what [TS]

  is it you urm is under represented [TS]

  something or other underrepresented [TS]

  minorities [TS]

  Thank You us urls new hires got um just [TS]

  sounds so dismissive don't like that at [TS]

  all but anyway uh 21% in 2014 24-percent [TS]

  2015 twenty-seven percent in 2016 so [TS]

  definite improvement in in new hires [TS]

  which witch is which should be [TS]

  celebrated so a little bit of good a [TS]

  little bit of bad but the fact that they [TS]

  they seem to be paying this much [TS]

  attention to it i think is a hundred [TS]

  percent good is a borderline amazon [TS]

  charts down here though like everything [TS]

  i have three three data points now so [TS]

  like they had to and you can make a line [TS]

  at it too but it's more impressive when [TS]

  you have three and of course the [TS]

  highlight here the lines with the slopes [TS]

  that are going up into the right and you [TS]

  know they are doing better with new [TS]

  hires of underrepresented minorities are [TS]

  doing better with with female hires [TS]

  right so they show these things but [TS]

  there's nothing along the y-axis there [TS]

  is no I access they just show they [TS]

  decide 21% is like a centimeter from the [TS]

  bottom and twenty-seven percent like [TS]

  three times higher 27 is nothing anyone [TS]

  so it's not zero based no I mean yeah [TS]

  anyway positive trends progress is slow [TS]

  they're highlighting where they're doing [TS]

  the best obviously and [TS]

  new hires if you're going to the best [TS]

  somewhere like that's you know it's you [TS]

  know forward-looking try to try to fix [TS]

  this going forward as much as possible [TS]

  and the other numbers mean I don't know [TS]

  any way that one of the most important [TS]

  things is that Apple has a webpage at [TS] / diversity and that they're [TS]

  open and transparent with these things [TS]

  but as always liked the attention [TS]

  between oh good job at ball stop on the [TS]

  back you really care about this let's [TS]

  give you cookies for being caring and [TS]

  having a webpage on the other hand it's [TS]

  like but on the other hand these numbers [TS]

  are awesome and so apples job is kind of [TS]

  its kind of weird making this webpage [TS]

  your job making web pages show that [TS]

  Apple cares [TS]

  the website is there right good show the [TS]

  progress apples making but also be [TS]

  honest and upfront as they have been in [TS]

  the past about where your problems are [TS]

  and I think that's maybe where this [TS]

  falls down a little because their [TS]

  original diversity of things like we [TS]

  take a look at the diversity we are not [TS]

  doing a good enough job like it was [TS]

  totally unflinching saying like oh [TS]

  there's good and bad know the first run [TS]

  of this a four-year was like we are not [TS]

  happy with this we are not doing a good [TS]

  job [TS]

  we are not meeting our own standards for [TS]

  how this should be and the same pages [TS]

  this page here is more about like hey [TS]

  we're doing well and everything i'm sure [TS]

  internally they still have their eyes on [TS]

  the prize and like all right there's [TS]

  still progress to be made but there is a [TS]

  danger of falling into the trap where [TS]

  every time you come out these numbers [TS]

  that we just parrot back the the cherry [TS]

  stats that are getting better and don't [TS]

  realize like the overall picture still [TS]

  pretty grim [TS]

  so I don't like I don't want to slam [TS]

  them for not making progress faster [TS]

  because again like it takes a long time [TS]

  to turn ship this big it's not like [TS]

  you're going to fire all your employees [TS]

  and start over again from scratch and [TS]

  new hiring is the place where you can [TS]

  fix things and they're doing better but [TS]

  on the other hand there's a long road [TS]

  ahead so i hope i hope this page still [TS]

  here 15 years from now and i hope if you [TS]

  need a 15-year graph with an actual [TS]

  labeled y-axis it will still show [TS]

  equally encouraging a zero-based y axis [TS]

  which are equally encouraging trends [TS]

  yeah it's it's tough because I I want to [TS]

  celebrate this so bad so much but [TS]

  there's there's a lot of room for [TS]

  improvement [TS]

  I mean 2016 Global Gender [TS]

  in what they described his tech is [TS]

  seventy-seven percent and fifty-six [TS]

  percent of it is white like that's it's [TS]

  a lot of room for improvement there but [TS]

  I mean if you look at to be fair if you [TS]

  look at my company there for android [TS]

  developers for iOS developers and every [TS]

  single one of us as a white male so I [TS]

  mean I shouldn't really be throwing [TS]

  stones on this myself but I i hope we [TS]

  get better I'm time I would love to see [TS]

  us get better and and hopefully is as we [TS]

  open other offices we will get better [TS]

  but it's alright i guess it's hard and [TS]

  it shouldn't be but it is [TS]

  thanks 143 sponsors this week hover [TS]

  Harry's and linode and we will see you [TS]

  next week [TS]

  now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

  mean to be in as it was accidental death [TS]

  was accidental [TS]

  John didn't [TS]

  research Marco in kc would [TS]

  because it was accidental was accidental [TS]

  and you can find the show know today p [TS]

  dot and if twitter follow them [TS]

  s/he yl ISS so that's Casey list and a [TS]

  co-pay rm20 Marco Arment are c.c recuse [TS]

  alright so Marco you and I went through [TS]

  a deeply painful episode last week when [TS]

  we had to hear about tivo for entirely [TS]

  too long and what i remind me again why [TS]

  that was so painful [TS]

  yes I just don't care it's really don't [TS]

  care as pain it's painful to hear about [TS]

  things you don't care about it's painful [TS]

  no I'm just being silly it's not painful [TS]

  i was I actually I thought it was gonna [TS]

  be worse than it was i just own dad and [TS]

  I I just pretended like I wasn't [TS]

  hypercritical and I guess I just forgot [TS]

  that i could talk for most of the time [TS]

  and just pretend like this never [TS]

  critical and and for that it was great [TS]

  because it was basically a brief [TS]

  interlude hypercritical that'sthat's [TS]

  there right now I'm just giving you a [TS]

  hard time John it was wasn't going to be [TS]

  very feeling it [TS]

  interlude of building analyzed because i [TS]

  don't think you would ever talk about [TS]

  the mp3 file format and build analyze [TS]

  this is no i didn't know much about it [TS]

  back then but even if you did like this [TS]

  is very nitty gritty feeling [TS]

  yes to tell us what it is that we need [TS]

  to know and don't know about the mp3 [TS]

  file format because I I genuinely am [TS]

  very interested [TS]

  this is basically kind of like this [TS]

  developer rathole i fell into last [TS]

  weekend I had I had some work time and [TS]

  rather than then do what I'm supposed to [TS]

  be doing this summer which is updating [TS]

  overcast to iOS 10 making a whole new [TS]

  watch app and making it today widget and [TS]

  also the garbage in today was [TS]

  procrastinating by working on forecasts [TS]

  my mp3 encoder and I i decided to let me [TS]

  just do whatever work is required to [TS]

  make it work with VR output so to back [TS]

  up a little bit the way that it just a [TS]

  high-level version of the mp3 file [TS]

  format so the way mp3's work at a very [TS]

  high level and please if you if you're a [TS]

  nerd about this stuff please forgive me [TS]

  about these details of getting anything [TS]

  wrong i'm trying to get very high level [TS]

  overview here the way lossy compression [TS]

  works is basically try to not store [TS]

  things that you probably won't notice if [TS]

  they're not stored and then for the [TS]

  things you do notice try to store them [TS]

  with less precision in mp3 there's [TS]

  they're one of the famous ways it does [TS]

  this is by omitting sounds that you [TS]

  probably won't hear and so obviously [TS]

  things are outside the range of human [TS]

  hearing that's the easy one [TS]

  they also do things like there's a [TS]

  principle called masking where if [TS]

  there's a very quiet sound and a very [TS]

  loud [TS]

  sound at the same time the very last [TS]

  time is going to be so overpowering the [TS]

  very quiet and is going to be drowned [TS]

  out so there's no reason to store the [TS]

  information about the very quiet sound [TS]

  because the very lightest and that's all [TS]

  you'll hear one way they they achieve [TS]

  the size savings just by omitting things [TS]

  that are just kinda drowned out or that [TS]

  you won't hear another way to do it is [TS]

  by reducing the precision of the things [TS]

  you do here and so there there are a few [TS]

  different tricks they can do for this [TS]

  because basically the the precision at [TS]

  which we perceive what we hear is not [TS]

  constant throughout the frequency range [TS]

  very low frequencies very high [TS]

  frequencies we tend not to have as much [TS]

  precision about perceiving those things [TS]

  and so they can store those less [TS]

  precisely and therefore using less data [TS]

  they can also do things like in a stereo [TS]

  recording where you know you might have [TS]

  very very similar sound coming out of [TS]

  left my channel just slight differences [TS]

  so there's there's a method called joint [TS]

  stereo we're basically this is the left [TS]

  channel and the right channel differs by [TS]

  this much and just all the difference [TS]

  for the right channel we are also very [TS]

  bad at perceiving not only the details [TS]

  about very high pitch and very low pitch [TS]

  sounds but also where they're coming [TS]

  from and you might realize this like if [TS]

  if you if you can hear a very [TS]

  high-pitched challenge in your house i [TS]

  get like back in the old days like you [TS]

  hear the very high-pitched whine of a [TS]

  CRT TV and you like you can just walk [TS]

  into as you can hear like I can hear [TS]

  there's a TV on somewhere in the house [TS]

  but you might be able to pick out where [TS]

  exactly like what direction exactly was [TS]

  coming from also similar reason why [TS]

  subwoofers in home theater systems tend [TS]

  to be one so before that you just put [TS]

  somewhere and it kind of doesn't matter [TS]

  because the very low frequencies again [TS]

  you you're not nearly as good at [TS]

  perceiving where they're coming from [TS]

  so they can do things there too they can [TS]

  save space there too with things like [TS]

  all right well you know if we have to [TS]

  store this separated stereo image here [TS]

  maybe we can just store the average of [TS]

  the very high very low stuff in the [TS]

  middle and not have to worry about the [TS]

  sides you know i have not did not have [TS]

  the separation so the whole print the [TS]

  whole principle the mp3 file format and [TS]

  all loss are all lost the audio formats [TS]

  is based on this idea of like figure out [TS]

  what we couldn't either omit entirely [TS]

  from storing and then figure out tricks [TS]

  we can use to store it less precisely [TS]

  obviously though [TS]

  you lower the amount of space you're [TS]

  going to spend as you lower the bitrate [TS]

  how many bits per second you're going to [TS]

  devote to storing this it may become you [TS]

  start hearing artifact you start hearing [TS]

  the quality loss you start hearing of [TS]

  this is now this anymore folder that's [TS]

  kinda store that's something weird or [TS]

  that you know that symbol hit kind of [TS]

  sounded weirdly telephonic like you know [TS]

  you start hearing flaws i don't want to [TS]

  get into too many of the details of what [TS]

  the argument over whether you can hear [TS]

  the difference or not generally most [TS]

  tests show that about a hundred [TS]

  ninety-two kilobits per second [TS]

  you don't really hear the difference in [TS]

  most things for most people that's [TS]

  beside the point though so everyone your [TS]

  encoding a podcast there's a few [TS]

  different ways you can you can go about [TS]

  like managing the bitrate how many bits [TS]

  per second you are willing to spend on [TS]

  the audio the most direct kind is [TS]

  constant bit rate or CBR which basically [TS]

  so mp3 files are divided into frames and [TS]

  just it's just time slice every frame is [TS]

  as a 1152 samples [TS]

  whatever your sample rate is like at at [TS]

  44 k that's like 26 milliseconds every [TS]

  frame us you have a bit rate and you [TS]

  very well in constant bitrate mode every [TS]

  frame will get 96 kilobits or 64 [TS]

  kilobits 128 kilobits whatever and it's [TS]

  a very simple way to do things and that [TS]

  mostly works and podcasts are almost [TS]

  always encoded that way I started to [TS]

  wonder why exactly you know because we [TS]

  also have these other methods they're [TS]

  based on variable bit rate or vbr the [TS]

  encoder has some idea about the [TS]

  complexity of each frame each one of [TS]

  those little 26 millisecond each one of [TS]

  those little time slices the encoder can [TS]

  decide this part of encoding right now [TS]

  this little time slice is a pretty [TS]

  complex there's a lot going on here so [TS]

  to encode this with a certain degree of [TS]

  perceived quality i need more bits and [TS]

  then maybe like three seconds later [TS]

  there's a quieter passage or a simpler [TS]

  passage and you can say you know this [TS]

  part I don't need this many bits i can [TS]

  include a lower bitrate you know you can [TS]

  have the encoder kind of decide on a [TS]

  target perceived quality level and just [TS]

  use as many bits as you need to achieve [TS]

  that quality level and have it just very [TS]

  constantly throughout the file for pie [TS]

  cast this is an obvious choice right it [TS]

  makes sense that for podcast that should [TS]

  work really well because podcasts have a [TS]

  lot of silence [TS]

  this is I kind of my current living on [TS]

  this tape has have a lot of silence and [TS]

  voice is pretty easy and occasionally [TS]

  you throw in like a music clip or music [TS]

  bed running under things or theme song [TS]

  or a clip from TV or something like so [TS]

  you occasionally have more complex stuff [TS]

  that could use more complexity and like [TS]

  in our show we started out being a a 64 [TS]

  kilobit mono show for it for like the [TS]

  first year too and centered okay it [TS]

  didn't sound great centered ok [TS]

  one of the things that's how the worst [TS]

  was our themes on because 64k mono is [TS]

  kind of terrible for music a while back [TS]

  now maybe a year ago or something like [TS]

  that [TS]

  i switch to 96k stereo and it made the [TS]

  theme song sound way better anytime you [TS]

  insert a clip like from a Steve Jobs [TS]

  hear anything made all those sound way [TS]

  better and kind of musical clip or any [TS]

  kind of inserts and away better and [TS]

  voices sounded better too and even [TS]

  though the entire rest of the of the [TS]

  podcast is us talking and I don't do any [TS]

  kind of stereo separation so just a mono [TS]

  thing because of the way the joint [TS]

  stereo encoding works we just get all 96 [TS]

  kilobits to our mono channel for the [TS]

  entire rest of the file because it can [TS]

  say all right well the the channels are [TS]

  encoded as like you know the main [TS]

  channel equals this and the difference [TS]

  in the other channel is 0 basically so [TS]

  you get all the bits to yourself and [TS]

  then only when you have a stereo thing [TS]

  inserted do you then split up the bits [TS]

  as necessary between the channels so it [TS]

  is really a great way to do it but what [TS]

  would be even better would be a vbr [TS]

  encoding all the silence between all the [TS]

  words i'm speaking those would get like [TS]

  the minimum frame size which i think is [TS]

  there is 32 kilobytes per second so it's [TS]

  like the minimum frame size for all [TS]

  those sounds because it doesn't matter [TS]

  you want to the difference and then we [TS]

  throw in music clip or something that [TS]

  could go all the way up to like 192 to [TS]

  really get the music to be perfect [TS]

  quality if you did that way it wouldn't [TS]

  take very much more space in fact it [TS]

  probably takes up less space and in my [TS]

  tests it actually would take up about me [TS]

  twenty-five percent less space than my [TS]

  constant 96k [TS]

  to have similar voice qualities we have [TS]

  now but then have the ability to put in [TS]

  like that like our theme song at [TS]

  effectively perfect quality so why don't [TS]

  we do this so i spent the weekend adding [TS]

  the capability forecast to say you know [TS]

  what let me just give it the ability to [TS]

  output vbr files because it wasn't that [TS]

  much more work and I got to dive into [TS]

  the format learn a bit more about it is [TS]

  also for completeness there's something [TS]

  called a br which is average bitrate and [TS]

  the idea here is it is vbr but instead [TS]

  of targeting a certain quality level it [TS]

  just says try to keep the bitrate at [TS]

  exactly this average over time so [TS]

  basically if you have like a couple of [TS]

  very brief frames where you can like you [TS]

  know for this second of audio anymore [TS]

  quality but for the other 30 seconds [TS]

  around it you don't you know you can [TS]

  have a little temporary jumps there but [TS]

  ABR would not work for the case i'm [TS]

  talking about which is if I say you know [TS]

  average bitrate of our whole file needs [TS]

  to be this [TS]

  well the theme song is going to just [TS]

  blow that because the theme song needs [TS]

  like two minutes of really high-quality [TS]

  so the average during that time is gonna [TS]

  be way higher and so it you basically [TS]

  doesn't work right like you could have a [TS]

  few seconds of higher quality but not [TS]

  minutes of higher quality so that [TS]

  wouldn't work for for our needs so I i [TS]

  really started trying to figure out like [TS]

  how can i get a true vbr encoding in the [TS]

  world of podcast because again PBR has [TS]

  been around for almost 20 years this is [TS]

  not a new thing and yet almost no [TS]

  podcast vbr why off the top of your head [TS]

  you guys think of why this might be [TS]

  because podcast podcast sures don't [TS]

  support it for some reason or another [TS]

  they didn't at some point or what about [TS]

  like the hardware actually the old [TS]

  hardware the old ipod hardware good [TS]

  question so honestly I think that I'm [TS]

  ipod came out and doesn't want I think [TS]

  all the hardware support it like in the [TS]

  very early days some hardware have [TS]

  problems and maybe if you had like one [TS]

  of the first like mp3 CD players or mp3 [TS]

  flash players like that i mean really if [TS]

  you had some of the very first mp3 [TS]

  players or software or like car stereos [TS]

  play mp3's Navy to be a problem there [TS]

  but vbr compatibility has been solved so [TS]

  long ago in all this stuff because [TS]

  literally almost 20 years old was that [TS]

  my music has always been vbr I've never [TS]

  done CPR from the second i ever made an [TS]

  mp3 i had the choice [TS]

  vbr are constant bit rate and was like [TS]

  why would i choose constant Phoebe are [TS]

  always and as always played and [TS]

  obviously i started listening to it on [TS]

  actually did we had a yamaha mp3 player [TS]

  for like running or whatever like the [TS]

  size of a shuffle and that played vb are [TS]

  so no I don't think it's hardware either [TS]

  yet so what I what I found out the main [TS]

  problem with vbr is streaming if you [TS]

  want your streaming when you when you [TS]

  when when a player plays back upstream [TS]

  file if you need to jump ahead to a [TS]

  timestamp and you haven't downloaded [TS]

  that part of the file yet you don't have [TS]

  that far the way this is usually done is [TS]

  the player will download the first few [TS]

  you know a hundred kilobytes maybe like [TS]

  the basic little down the first part of [TS]

  the file to get all the header [TS]

  information and everything all the [TS]

  metadata and then they will terminate [TS]

  that connection and make a new [TS]

  connection that jumps ahead using a [TS]

  range request to begin playback like you [TS]

  know 50 megabytes into the file so it [TS]

  doesn't have to download all of you know [TS]

  everything in the middle there to get [TS]

  there so the problem is it needs to be [TS]

  able to predict at what byte offset in [TS]

  the file maps to the timestamp that it's [TS]

  going to also used to how long the file [TS]

  is you know duration is another is not [TS]

  the challenge here and with with a [TS]

  constant bit rate or ABR average bitrate [TS]

  kind of kind of scheme you can do that [TS]

  pretty effectively mp3 it once you have [TS]

  like the like the byte stream i [TS]

  mentioned in the past so once you have [TS]

  the byte stream like you can jump ahead [TS]

  to a certain point and then every mp3 [TS]

  frame every one of those 16 millisecond [TS]

  time slices begins with a certain bite [TS]

  pattern that's easy to seek to and and [TS]

  locate you can jump into an official mp3 [TS]

  files from any point any bite and you [TS]

  can just scan forward until you see 11 [TS]

  ones basically and you know an MC or [TS]

  whatever it is you can scan for until [TS]

  you see that and then that's your frame [TS]

  header you can start playing from there [TS]

  but you still have to know where you are [TS]

  so if you jump ahead to bite position [TS]

  you know [TS]

  fifty megabytes expecting that to be [TS]

  timestamp one hour and 20 minutes [TS]

  there's nothing in the file in the byte [TS]

  stream that says I am timestamp one hour [TS]

  and 20 minutes at that point so you have [TS]

  to already know the timestamp that you [TS]

  are at you have to keep track yourself [TS]

  as the decoder as the player and so in a [TS]

  file where you know the constant bitrate [TS]

  where it's kept the same you can just do [TS]

  the math you can see all right well you [TS]

  know I know the music data began at x 0 [TS]

  and you know the file is under megabytes [TS]

  and you know the duration from the [TS]

  header says it's an hour long so if you [TS]

  jump to point fifty megabytes [TS]

  that's right in the middle so that [TS]

  should be 30 minutes done in constant [TS]

  refile that's true you know probably [TS]

  solve this problem [TS]

  quicktime mm do you hate those container [TS]

  formats in the NB NB mpeg-4 for a [TS]

  container formats that spot far because [TS]

  they're all complicated you have [TS]

  multiple atoms and streams or whatever [TS]

  but i'm pretty sure they sell this one [TS]

  but anyway yeah quicktime has a number [TS]

  of other problems actually pick anyways [TS]

  well the fact that Apple is not [TS]

  interested in any more being the most [TS]

  primary whatever but that this this [TS]

  exact problems like to be able to pick [TS]

  different codecs to have them be [TS]

  variable bitrate to be it but be able to [TS]

  have time codes and other you know [TS]

  multiple streams to tell you how I've [TS]

  come to a point in the file where how [TS]

  far am I in the file and what is the [TS]

  subtitle I should be showing and what is [TS]

  the yeah picked image that should be [TS]

  displaying on top of the anyway yeah 11 [TS]

  of the fun challenges about the about [TS]

  the wonderful QuickTime file format and [TS]

  it's undocumented chapter spec is that [TS]

  in mp3 chapters all the chapter info is [TS]

  right up front the file so you can [TS]

  relive the first couple hundred [TS]

  kilobytes and have all the information [TS]

  you need to show the entire table of [TS]

  content and then you can jump the point [TS]

  you need quicktime predates internet [TS]

  streaming quicktime predates internet [TS]

  yeah but quicktime chapters doesn't and [TS]

  they still did it this way so quick to [TS]

  pay the full time format important [TS]

  information like the chapter titles are [TS]

  spread throughout the entire file like [TS]

  the title occurs in the file when the [TS]

  music does like at like in the audio at [TS]

  that point the titles interleaved there [TS]

  so in order to display the table of [TS]

  contents you have to have the entire [TS]

  file basically so that's that's a bad [TS]

  design for this prick is going to use [TS]

  anyway the main problem with the mp3 [TS]

  format is you know with with seeking [TS]

  and and duration estimates and ends and [TS]

  streaming vbr files is that you need to [TS]

  know like what white position in the [TS]

  file maps to what time stamp and this [TS]

  you know they figure this out early on [TS]

  this is a problem from the start [TS]

  people chatter staying with these two [TS]

  have like maybe old software old [TS]

  hardware that would display the wrong [TS]

  duration on PBR files one of the ways [TS]

  decoders would do this would be to just [TS]

  read the first couple mp3 frames and [TS]

  figure out like you know the average [TS]

  bitrate of of those frames or even read [TS]

  the very first one and then just look at [TS]

  this look at the file size and say [TS]

  alright well we're going to assume this [TS]

  represents the average bitrate of the [TS]

  file and extrapolate from the file size [TS]

  how long this file is and that's dumb [TS]

  and doesn't work so that's why that's [TS]

  why those programs often display the [TS]

  wrong durations there is also an ID [TS]

  three tag value of the duration of the [TS]

  file but not everything supports that [TS]

  you know not every encoder embed that [TS]

  and somebody might have edited that's [TS]

  what might be wrong [TS]

  early on they figured out a little [TS]

  solutions problem and it's it's the do [TS]

  you remember back when people argue mp3 [TS]

  encoders determine the encoder that was [TS]

  a zing or exiting it's x-ing know anyway [TS]

  they figure that early on then the [TS]

  current hack to do this is in these mp3 [TS]

  frames which are like you know 300 bytes [TS]

  long for this kind of file in these [TS]

  frames the very very first audio frame [TS]

  in the file is called an info frame in [TS]

  for vbr files and they they basically [TS]

  right all zeros of the audio data and [TS]

  they have a bunch of free space and the [TS]

  frame because they didn't use it all so [TS]

  they they had the special format where [TS]

  they embed really really tiny metadata [TS]

  and one of the things they embed is a [TS]

  100 bite seek table that literally just [TS]

  Maps percentage points to the the [TS]

  unsigned character values so that you [TS]

  have 255 values their of like it Maps [TS]

  the duration percentage to the bite [TS]

  percentage of the file that's [TS]

  fascinating yeah and then I'm sure [TS]

  there'll be no rounding errors in that [TS]

  with that long and files with thats also [TS]

  incredibly precise right like for a song [TS]

  if the song is more than a minute and a [TS]

  half long you already don't have second [TS]

  per second level precision you already [TS]

  are like less than one second position [TS]

  for a podcast that's like less than one [TS]

  minute precision let's eat it so that is [TS]

  terrible right i fed and that it turns [TS]

  out that is for the most part what most [TS]

  Apple playback interfaces you know most [TS]

  of the API 80 players everything that is [TS]

  what most these things will use and this [TS]

  again this info frame with this jump [TS]

  information has been around for a very [TS]

  long time so that's what most however [TS]

  you will use with CBR files to just be [TS]

  able to tell you all right well this be [TS]

  our song if you seek ahead to point X [TS]

  and we don't have the whole file we know [TS]

  we can jump to about this x position and [TS]

  be approximately correct within a couple [TS]

  of seconds for you know a three-minute [TS]

  song doesn't really work for podcasts [TS]

  right so the idea I had [TS]

  I you know I'm making the encoder I make [TS]

  the player [TS]

  what if I just make i define a new ID [TS]

  three tag that gives way more percent [TS]

  you know I could do like you know second [TS]

  level precision and just have it have it [TS]

  be as long as it needs to be or [TS]

  something like that you know whatever it [TS]

  is like an icon with a scheme that is [TS]

  the size wouldn't matter for a hundred [TS]

  megabyte podcast file or whatever [TS]

  because it could be like you know 15k [TS]

  and have all the information we need so [TS]

  I I figured I you know I was like I was [TS]

  drafting this plan in my head like what [TS]

  if I just do this and the main problem [TS]

  with this is even if overcast supports [TS]

  it [TS]

  nobody else would support it because how [TS]

  many people do you think are working on [TS]

  the low-level mp3 decoding libraries at [TS]

  Apple or Google this is ancient stuff [TS]

  now it's like so many people tried to [TS]

  modify and advance the jpeg format and [TS]

  none of them ever take off because [TS]

  nobody is still working on their jpg [TS]

  decoders like they're there is no new [TS]

  version of JPEG that's going to ever [TS]

  matter because we have JP already and [TS]

  thats everywhere and nobody wants to [TS]

  talk to consider a solved problem mp3 [TS]

  the same way like there are other audio [TS]

  formats and advancement and everything [TS]

  and most of them have really gone [TS]

  effectively nowhere with the exception [TS]

  of AC because Apple use it everywhere [TS]

  but for the most part like most [TS]

  improvements have gone very very very [TS]

  few places p [TS]

  it was basically like nothing implements [TS]

  them and no one cares right [TS]

  so if you fed a PBR file to one of these [TS]

  non overcast players and they ignore [TS]

  your ID three day because they have no [TS]

  idea what it means i would what would [TS]

  they do for duration and skipping around [TS]

  like who they were just read that little [TS]

  zing thing if it was present and that's [TS]

  it like how I don't understand how they [TS]

  can even use that thing that was like it [TS]

  i jumped his offset does it just display [TS]

  the exact number of seconds that should [TS]

  be according to its math with some [TS]

  rounding yes and then just be like [TS]

  that's not the real offset but oh well [TS]

  that's the best we can tell you if where [TS]

  you know if you're streaming that [TS]

  literally is what happens like if you if [TS]

  you have the whole file the the file you [TS]

  can ski you can just scan forward and [TS]

  scanning forward is incredibly fast [TS]

  because it you're dealing with very [TS]

  small data ranges here and the like in [TS]

  order to to find and read an mp3 header [TS]

  is incredibly simple like bit shifting [TS]

  it's very very simple stuff because this [TS]

  is an old format designed for like [TS]

  really slow computers so if you have the [TS]

  whole file you can seek back and forth [TS]

  just by reading all the frames and you [TS]

  know and keeping track yourself and you [TS]

  can have perfect accuracy there it's [TS]

  only an issue with streaming and only an [TS]

  issue if you are and streaming if you're [TS]

  playing from the beginning it isn't a [TS]

  problem but it is a problem if you're [TS]

  trying to jump ahead to a timestamp [TS]

  where you have not downloaded the the [TS]

  intermediate part of the file between [TS]

  the beginning and that timestamp that is [TS]

  the only place is a problem the obvious [TS]

  terrible problem solution that springs [TS]

  to mind for me is all right fine then [TS]

  overcast just uh makes a different [TS]

  requests to the server and if it has a [TS]

  vbr version with the special thing it [TS]

  serves it and if it doesn't you know I [TS]

  mean like my smarts and it's terrible i [TS]

  know but it would totally work was like [TS]

  everyone else will get the normal [TS]

  constant bitrate one and then now you [TS]

  have to make two versions of ATP one [TS]

  special 141 overcast savvy version that [TS]

  would be vr better quality and baba but [TS]

  everyone else will get the other version [TS]

  and that's terrible solution because you [TS]

  haven't changed what anyone else does [TS]

  but you have made your player slightly [TS]

  better but now you have to cut [TS]

  everything twice and if anybody else [TS]

  wanted to do that which I assume you [TS]

  want other people to do it 2day pissed [TS]

  at you because now you have to cut [TS]

  everything twice since dump [TS]

  yeah and there's there's also another [TS]

  problem that for example we have to [TS]

  leave Squarespace because here's the [TS]

  thing that podcast has been around for [TS]

  so [TS]

  long that there's all these like [TS]

  wordpress plugins and CMS is like [TS]

  Squarespace that have podcast support [TS]

  but i don't think any of them have the [TS]

  ability to different to say to have like [TS]

  oh you know it my feet actually every [TS]

  entry is now gonna have to enclosure tag [TS]

  if you just do a stupid can you do a [TS]

  convention over configuration dot [TS] marcos weird version [TS]

  oh god that's even worse like the RSS [TS]

  feed would just say that mp3 but [TS]

  overcast would know actually make a [TS]

  quick request for that mp3 that markers [TS]

  we were in first if you can afford then [TS]

  make a request with yes I'm telling you [TS]

  this is a terrible like this is the the [TS]

  obvious terrible solution that comes to [TS]

  mind immediately that you should [TS]

  probably ever do but like people have [TS]

  done worse things like the other one is [TS]

  the hombre some extent thing i'll get it [TS]

  at e3 spec socializing something like [TS]

  that so everything happens and you can [TS]

  make it to facto standard i'm just not [TS]

  sure you have the market share to pull [TS]

  it off at this point [TS]

  yeah and the other problem is like you [TS]

  know if if I actually made just the [TS]

  regular file vbr the one of the biggest [TS]

  problems here is my time stamp share [TS]

  links because when you open up a [TS]

  timestamp share link in that overcast [TS]

  generates for you share this podcast at [TS]

  this point in time it's using the html5 [TS]

  audio tag and that's just apples decoder [TS]

  like that's just going to load up to use [TS]

  a particular and I tested this and with [TS]

  me BR files and you know it just it just [TS]

  off like it doesn't it doesn't work [TS]

  correctly it does not seek correctly [TS]

  position the share link would have to [TS]

  use the dot mp3 instead of that mp3 by [TS]

  marcos better person [TS]

  yeah i mean basically the only way this [TS]

  works is that the market weird version [TS]

  but all that that this the truly sad [TS]

  part about all this is like after doing [TS]

  all this research after figuring out [TS]

  this this crazy info frame and the rest [TS]

  of the PBR file format now i have like [TS]

  this awesome parallel vbr encoder that I [TS]

  basically can't use and that be because [TS]

  even if I did the craziness required to [TS]

  make this work with overcast ATP would [TS]

  probably only podcast that ever did it [TS]

  because most podcasts producers simply [TS]

  don't care what audio quality very much [TS]

  to them they encoded at like 64k and [TS]

  that's good enough and maybe they're [TS]

  paying per gigabyte and so they can [TS]

  maybe they can't afford larger files [TS]

  funny thing there though is like even if [TS]

  you were doing 64k mono I've done [TS]

  testing that to be already saving my [TS]

  twenty-five thirty percent [TS]

  for most shows but most people are not [TS]

  interested in causing a possible [TS]

  headache with certain players in [TS]

  exchange for a 30-percent file savings [TS]

  we gotta do it maybe it'll be like [TS]

  handcrafted artisanal podcast we're like [TS]

  yeah only you want to do it and five [TS]

  other people in Brooklyn would do it was [TS]

  like oh I everyone knows you have to [TS]

  call it twice one dot mp3 for the peons [TS]

  and then one down mp3 DeMarcos we're [TS]

  very much by the way is bad branding if [TS]

  you come up with a clever name for you [TS]

  that I've done be three will be like [TS]

  MDOT MP z which is probably already [TS]

  taken or some other night mp3 got [TS]

  something else like you could brand this [TS]

  in a way that it's like yeah nobody does [TS]

  this but the people who really care [TS]

  about it you really care about locally [TS]

  sourced handmade you know fairtrade [TS]

  podcast they encode everything twice and [TS]

  and and the one good player that cares [TS]

  about it always makes a request for the [TS]

  dot MPEG file first into the forest and [TS]

  request that I mp3 but if it doesn't it [TS]

  plays that MPC and it's better [TS]

  yeah so basically i'm running this trend [TS]

  expedition i achieved a lot i made [TS]

  forecast a lot better by making it right [TS]

  that in folk that crazy info frame and [TS]

  and understand format a lot better and [TS]

  be able to DVR forever needs to but the [TS]

  moral of the story is I ran into a whole [TS]

  bunch of barriers that basically nobody [TS]

  will ever care as much as i do to fix [TS]

  and that make it pretty much impossible [TS]

  to really use for podcast in a [TS]

  responsible way [TS]

  oh here's the other angle on it like [TS]

  remember one microsoft had secret api's [TS]

  that only they could use to make their [TS]

  apps faster and everything and people [TS]

  were all angry about it [TS]

  so this will you could do this frame [TS]

  this as like this is a secret overcast [TS]

  API but only a TPU knows everyone is [TS]

  always obsessed with the idea that ATP [TS]

  is like a preferential treatment in your [TS]

  podcast app or whatever but like that [TS]

  only ATP has access to it and you do it [TS]

  and then when someone comes using well [TS]

  actually it's not a secret API here's a [TS]

  webpage it's been up for a year telling [TS]

  you if you want to do this that make it [TS]

  out mp3 file you can do it though and [TS]

  then suddenly it's on them to be like if [TS]

  they come back at all that's annoying [TS]

  it's like well you wanted the secret API [TS]

  you're wondering why it's overcast that [TS]

  was ATP sounds so good and the file size [TS]

  is so small and the other podcast don't [TS]

  and that's the city you know so you got [TS]

  you to make them come to you with the [TS]

  anger about like ATP is using a secret [TS]

  API and then you could say nope [TS]

  not secret it was just so onerous that [TS]

  we didn't think anyone else could do it [TS]

  but the webpage has been there forever [TS]

  and then they're like what can they say [TS]

  they like oh well I guess we can do it [TS]

  but it seems kind of annoying and so you [TS]

  know anyway I stolen thank you good [TS]

  option except in Brooklyn but that's [TS]

  something right [TS]

  yeah but they want to even they wouldn't [TS]

  even want it because like the headphones [TS]

  and stuff that look really cool that [TS]

  they look cool to be in brooklyn aren't [TS]

  actually good enough like the heat with [TS]

  me and and and the sad part is about all [TS]

  this [TS]

  the main reason I be doing all this is [TS]

  to make our theme song time better like [TS]

  our speech we've already reached the [TS]

  point where r speaks is being [TS]

  represented in a way that is pretty much [TS]

  what I'm puttin out from logic like it [TS]

  you really can't tell the difference [TS]

  between the wave and the mp3 for our [TS]

  speech you can only tell for the theme [TS]

  spot can do multiple enclosures so the [TS]

  player will play the you know basically [TS]

  have three mp3's have the for the show [TS]

  the song and the after-show well it it [TS]

  has to be one file for podcast clients [TS]

  you could you potentially just have like [TS]

  basically like three constant bitrate [TS]

  sections of the file but then any seeks [TS]

  during streaming to the after-show would [TS]

  have the wrong time stamps [TS]

  yeah and and when they're wrong they're [TS]

  wrong by a lot like I like in my tests [TS]

  like of privacy of your file it's off by [TS]

  like a minute and a half like it's a [TS]

  pretty big difference and has the wrong [TS]

  time stamp and then yeah it's a it's a [TS]

  mess when it happens so quickly back [TS]

  just a little bit so you had said if you [TS]

  created your own version of this table [TS]

  you had stuff in in an ID three tag [TS]

  hypothetically yes it most likely be too [TS]

  big to fit in a frame and I wouldn't [TS]

  want to run the risk of of a player [TS]

  trying to play the frame as audio and [TS]

  weird things coming out of speakers and [TS]

  so again like it would mean it's no big [TS]

  deal 72 NTID 383 has a max size of 256 [TS]

  megabytes so if there's a lot you can [TS]

  shove in there so the hypothetical [TS]

  scenario then would be you have marcos [TS]

  custom jump table in a 93 tag but you [TS]

  would still presumably populate the [TS]

  really crummy existing jump table that's [TS]

  in that that frame correct yeah so the [TS]

  and that would work with no server-side [TS]

  changes that they would just work [TS]

  if an overcast and it would fall back in [TS]

  integrated gracefully another clients [TS]

  but the problem you have with that is [TS]

  that the the overcast jump to this [TS]

  moment feature which hand on heart no [TS]

  sarcasm intended i think might be the [TS]

  most impressive feature of overcast even [TS]

  more so than smart speed is that it [TS]

  would break that feature and that's why [TS]

  you don't want to do it [TS]

  basically yeah because I i really do [TS]

  think that my share links are very [TS]

  important for podcasting tiger and you [TS]

  know not a lot of people use them but [TS]

  they do get used and and the usage is [TS]

  going up over time that to me is very [TS]

  important and I want to keep promoting [TS]

  that I want to keep making them better [TS]

  I have a lot of crazy ideas for how to [TS]

  make them better most of most of these [TS]

  ideas are terrible and whatever happened [TS]

  or will able to I will tempt them [TS]

  realize their terrible and then cancel [TS]

  it before actual release them but some [TS]

  of these ideas will actually work and [TS]

  we'll be good [TS]

  I don't know which one yet but that's [TS]

  that that's good because I really do [TS]

  care a lot about those times and this is [TS]

  like this is one of the reasons why i [TS]

  really get annoyed with some of the big [TS]

  publishers using dynamic ad insertion [TS]

  platforms because when they do dynamic [TS]

  ad insertion which basically gives you [TS]

  new ads on every download so if you [TS]

  don't like a really old episode of like [TS]

  a storytelling show and you get like a [TS]

  brand new admits like how this company [TS]

  didn't even exist when this episode and [TS]

  2013 whatever that's what was happening [TS]

  is like literally every downloader [TS]

  serving you and the idea there is to [TS]

  better monetize their back catalogues [TS]

  because they're advertised paid back in [TS]

  2013 they're getting paid anymore so [TS]

  only let's put a new as we can charge [TS]

  people again fun one of the problems [TS]

  with these platforms one of the many [TS]

  problems with platforms is that they [TS]

  don't always have a daughter the same [TS]

  length as the original ads so basically [TS]

  timestamps are not persistent between [TS]

  downloads because he liked the ads are [TS]

  inserting in the show are very in length [TS]

  on every download so it totally breaks [TS]

  time timestamp share links with drive me [TS]

  crazy but I'm trying to make sharing [TS]

  better and you're throwing it away [TS]

  everyone complains like podcast don't [TS]

  share we need more sharing for podcast [TS]

  and the big pockets producers make [TS]

  sharing more difficult [TS]

  well if you really want to solve that [TS]

  problem you know the [TS]

  quicktime /template consortium solution [TS]

  that problem is that you need to have a [TS]

  more comprehensive map of the content [TS]

  that also incorporates the maps of the [TS]

  ad so when they change the ads they [TS]

  change the map and so you can do [TS]

  it's like source maps for JavaScript [TS]

  when you magnify it right now look you [TS]

  little chapter you you could just you [TS]

  could store the chapter idea an offset [TS]

  in within the chapter ID rather what [TS]

  that means the sharing links can't just [TS]

  containing offset that percent [TS]

  containment offset and like a version to [TS]

  say in this version of follows this [TS]

  offset and has to say oh well I haven't [TS]

  started to add since then and I can [TS]

  translate your offset exactly like [TS]

  source Maps JavaScript this this offset [TS]

  in this file is actually this offset in [TS]

  this other file [TS]

  yeah no don't do that though but because [TS]

  the thing like any any advancement you [TS]

  make in podcasting it you you basically [TS]

  like you have to assume that if it [TS]

  involves anybody anybody if it involves [TS]

  many producers changing their workflow [TS]

  in any way or changing their especially [TS]

  changing their CMS anyway it's never [TS]

  gonna happen [TS]

  no I'm gonna do it yeah you need to have [TS]

  one giant proprietary platform that can [TS]

  dictate because the only thing that they [TS]

  there what matter and whatever they do [TS]

  is what everyone has to follow and [TS]

  that's how it would work but we don't [TS]

  have that and that's a good thing so [TS]

  you're stuck in the technological [TS]

  backwater that is the mp3 format enjoy [TS]

  honestly I i really enjoyed I really do [TS]

  enjoy the format the format is very [TS]

  refreshing Lee simple and [TS]

  straightforward it just has like this [TS]

  one [TS]

  wart of this stupid hundred bite [TS]

  precision offset think three BR files [TS]

  that and again when you went there [TS]

  download it's not a problem it's only a [TS]

  problem when they're streaming and [TS]

  you're jumping ahead that's award an [TS]

  award though because the original the [TS]

  original words they don't have his [TS]

  information in the secondary Ward is [TS]

  we've tried to jam this information and [TS]

  using tiny little bites and we can only [TS]

  have a hundred we can only do [TS]

  percentages [TS]

  yeah well the bigger problem though is [TS]

  that everybody stopped advancing the mp3 [TS]

  format 15 years ago as technological [TS]

  backwater die and i'm going to hear from [TS]

  all like the the OGG and the HEA AC and [TS]

  mp3 pro-people i'm here from all these [TS]

  people at all the new audio for us this [TS]

  is I hdac supposed to be better than mp3 [TS]

  yes I'm aware of all these arguments [TS]

  about real audio that [TS]

  oh god you are a bad bad bet they solve [TS]

  this problem [TS]

  I mean the reality is like mp3 encoders [TS]

  are so good and have been so good for [TS]

  quite some time now but like a well [TS]

  encoded mp3 is already a really [TS]

  fantastic trade-off of size versus [TS]

  quality and it's compatible with [TS]

  everything everywhere and it has been [TS]

  for a very long time and that's why [TS]

  people still use mp3 also there's like [TS]

  patent issues with some of the newer [TS]

  ones and mp3 did have patents on it but [TS]

  almost all of the mp3 patents have [TS]

  expired and the ones that haven't [TS]

  expired a expire soon and be our arm i [TS]

  think entirely or mostly for like [TS]

  obscure variants that you could enable [TS]

  that almost nobody does enable of the [TS]

  format so bit mp3 has is almost public [TS]

  domain and it is effectively public [TS]

  domain now because it is so old that is [TS]

  a technology technology backwater thanks [TS]

  jon is so old the patents have expired [TS]

  which makes it way better than [TS]

  everything else in the world [TS]

  well what's even worse about this too [TS]

  would drive me nuts about this is my [TS]

  analytics and overcast streaming is like [TS]

  ten percent of play that really like i [TS]

  did all that work for streaming and now [TS]

  i'm forgetting all about streaming I'm [TS]

  glad you did because now I have overcast [TS]

  on my iPad and I tell it to stream [TS]

  everything and download nothing because [TS]

  i don't want to take up any space yeah [TS]

  actually like on like an iPad that you [TS]

  listen on sometimes it is the perfect [TS]

  case for streaming like that's it's [TS]

  perfect but man i I'm so it makes me so [TS]

  sad that like I did all this work for [TS]

  streaming and almost nobody uses that [TS]

  basically [TS]