The Accidental Tech Podcast

201: Volume Micromanager


  the correct title for this episode is [TS]

  John syracuse was wrong about something [TS]

  you too you too love love love love just [TS]

  listening and jumping on something you [TS]

  think is wrong both at once was nothing [TS]

  we think it's wrong and Israel all know [TS]

  you think you think are you saying [TS]

  there's only children that it takes me [TS]

  10 minutes to explain what I actually [TS]

  said but yeah it's a thing now you were [TS]

  wrong [TS]

  where's that window so many windows open [TS]

  i can't find it [TS]

  actually I have it's funny you say that [TS]

  i have one two three four five six [TS]

  different desktops running which is more [TS]

  than I usually do and they're not in the [TS]

  places i usually leave them which is my [TS]

  own problem of my own creation [TS]

  I have three what is its paces is the [TS]

  official mac OS terminal virtual [TS]

  desktops I three of them at you like a [TS]

  maniac [TS]

  it's and I probably 15 tabs open across [TS]

  all my browser's this is ridiculous at [TS]

  revenge on i-15 tabs across probably [TS]

  more like I guess I can figure this out [TS]

  how many browser windows three browser [TS]

  windows not like maybe 15 tabs open made [TS]

  my name or tabs open i do it's [TS]

  unmanageable I tell you say what I i [TS]

  listening listening back the windows [TS]

  siracusa County last week during that is [TS]

  so good so good i like a listening after [TS]

  the after-show clip and paste and then [TS]

  it just it holds up like it i mean Casey [TS]

  and I sound like garbage we have [TS]

  terrible microphones and like it we [TS]

  recorded the bottle well like [TS]

  everything's all echo we'd terrible John [TS]

  has good microphone by then so he sounds [TS]

  perfect of course because he sounds [TS]

  frustrating but the most difficult to [TS]

  use microphone of all of us and [TS]

  naturally but if you if you get past the [TS]

  other quality [TS]

  oh my god that holds up so well it's [TS]

  probably my favorite episode of ATP that [TS]

  has ever happened [TS]

  yeah that's so good you that the bed the [TS]

  best part was its and I think it's kind [TS]

  of like top gear at its finest [TS]

  which was it was completely genuine like [TS]

  genuinely we had no idea where this this [TS]

  conversation was going and the two of us [TS]

  like my recollection mar I've listened [TS]

  to it outside of what you put in the [TS]

  show the the two of us mark and I were [TS]

  just completely stupefied dumbfounded [TS]

  flabbergasted that this was what that [TS]

  what was unfolding in front of us was [TS]

  real life like I could not believe John [TS]

  and still can't that you feel like that [TS]

  was an acceptable way to manage your [TS]

  windows and browsers and tabs and when [TS]

  did you realize that it's only a matter [TS]

  of time before both of you eventually [TS]

  adopt that the the quantities so [TS]

  ludicrously disgusting i can't believe [TS]

  these numbers are so big it's blowing my [TS]

  mind it's only a matter of time before I [TS]

  mean you're getting close already you're [TS]

  making jokes about 15 times i mean i [TS]

  don't how many times do I have any open [TS]

  chrome right now i have two chromosomes [TS]

  open with 123456 I 1212 tabs to Windows [TS]

  six times each [TS]

  honestly I I be I'd be surprised if both [TS]

  the mac and the web last long enough for [TS]

  us to get to that point here we go [TS]

  there's the Marco we know and love [TS]

  welcome back one of those gonna let me [TS]

  come on like what are the chances really [TS]

  let's be realistically tabs will live [TS]

  forever hopefully not in multiple rows [TS]

  windows style because that was [TS]

  ridiculous [TS]

  yeah tap will tablet for every do you [TS]

  think there's a few honest honest [TS]

  question do so everyone everyone around [TS]

  this this part of the commenters fear [TS]

  seems to have some idea of what the [TS]

  future of computing is like the future [TS]

  of computing so far does not seem to [TS]

  contain tabs much if at all [TS]

  what do you think about that sure it [TS]

  does there are there in safari on the [TS]

  ipad so they're they're safe for the [TS]

  future but i really want to put a pin in [TS]

  the comments fear thing [TS]

  pin pin that fatally wound that word and [TS]

  then die and never escape from where it [TS]

  is pinned down [TS]

  would you rather I started a blog John [TS]

  is that is a better lock [TS]

  I just feel like that you need to like [TS]

  you didn't you don't need to go to [TS]

  comment 0 sphere you could fix something [TS]

  anything else blogosphere that's just as [TS]

  bad [TS]

  no no it's a blogosphere is better it's [TS]

  the weather gets better but it will [TS]

  honestly though so like so you know you [TS]

  mentioned like okay there's there's [TS]

  obviously tabs in web browsers even on [TS]

  on iPads and stuff [TS]

  well how much of computing these days is [TS]

  happening in web browsers and how much [TS]

  of the web browser part of it is [TS]

  happening on mobile which is where the [TS]

  future apparently [TS]

  yes like the future like if I'm using [TS]

  the amazon app I can't do crap with tabs [TS]

  i can't do anything if I'm using some [TS]

  other application if i'm working in a [TS]

  nap [TS]

  it's up to each individual after support [TS]

  tab like there is there was this this [TS]

  relatively brief span in Computer [TS]

  History where we did a whole bunch of [TS]

  stuff and pc based web browsers so there [TS]

  was this time that I think is is pretty [TS]

  clearly fading where we could have the [TS]

  amount of ridiculous tabs that John had [TS]

  and we could have all this stuff open [TS]

  and different you know everything was a [TS]

  URL and we can have multiple windows to [TS]

  everything we did because everything was [TS]

  basically a web app that time is clearly [TS]

  fading away and moving towards and very [TS]

  much already in this other thing with [TS]

  custom apps for almost everything most [TS]

  of them on phones and then that error in [TS]

  that era in the current paradigm that we [TS]

  have here i don't actually think that [TS]

  we're going to get to a point where the [TS]

  type of keeping all this stuff open that [TS]

  type of multitasking is really not going [TS]

  to be possible in this world for the [TS]

  foreseeable future [TS]

  people love tabs you can stop tabs they [TS]

  might not be on web browsers they might [TS]

  be on the future of mobile facebook app [TS]

  that will have tabs but people love taps [TS]

  until something comes to replace tabs [TS]

  tabs will be that doesn't mean that [TS]

  they're tabs have to be what they are on [TS]

  PCs today which is like the document [TS]

  model but instead of multiple windows [TS]

  you have a single window with multiple [TS]

  tabs and they're interchangeable and [TS]

  that doesn't mean they have to be that [TS]

  I'm just talking about like tabs like [TS]

  little things that when you hit them [TS]

  switch it i mean you can just call the [TS]

  segmented control and extend that counts [TS]

  tabs too because actually used to be [TS]

  tabs back on the you guys never use [TS]

  Mac's back on those are actual tabs [TS]

  right I no no I remember when they were [TS]

  tabs [TS]

  yes I'm saying but I guess it's like you [TS]

  go to like system permits is now go [TS]

  what is it called Marco do you don't [TS]

  know the segment on your Mac programs [TS]

  you have a segment of control used to be [TS]

  tabs used to be rendered as tabs and [TS]

  they changed it to this big long capsule [TS]

  huh somewhere around 10.1 points3 10.4 [TS]

  figure when they switched it weird go [TS]

  find that they were big shiny glossy [TS]

  aqua tabs they're like that the the aqua [TS]

  mist tabs you have everything that you [TS]

  know would be really cool if there was [TS]

  some sort of resource that [TS]

  existed that we could go to see lots of [TS]

  screenshots and intense discussion about [TS]

  old versions of Mac OS excuse me os10 [TS]

  man that would be awesome wouldn't know [TS]

  but honestly I i really do wonder how [TS]

  this that the way that we like to work [TS]

  with all that with tons of Windows and [TS]

  tabs and of course on take it to a whole [TS]

  other level [TS]

  like is there room in what we know today [TS]

  as as the iOS animal paradigm and what [TS]

  everyone says the future of computing [TS]

  and what Apple seems to be print be you [TS]

  know not only saying is the future but [TS]

  also like allocating resources in order [TS]

  to basically force it to be our only [TS]

  choice for the future is there room in [TS]

  that for a lot of power users i don't [TS]

  know i think that tabs are the easiest [TS]

  way to punt on like having multiple [TS]

  things open at once you know you don't [TS]

  need to do a full-on windowing system [TS]

  you just have a little tab control at [TS]

  the top of the bottom and I mean think [TS]

  about you I tab are in iOS I mean that's [TS]

  those are still tabs strictly speaking [TS]

  well no that's like that's different [TS]

  like tabs the way we're talking about [TS]

  are like are not the way a segment [TS]

  controller at a bar would would like [TS]

  separate different functions of the same [TS]

  app that's just how you arranged like [TS]

  one windows interface i'm talking about [TS]

  the way but like what browser tabs are [TS]

  and then what Ciara introduced as I kind [TS]

  of for any document based app we're like [TS]

  you can basically spawn as many tabs you [TS]

  want each one is like an independent [TS]

  document or window for that application [TS]

  and the problems in iOS apps are not [TS]

  designed to have multiple windows at all [TS]

  so you can't even simulate this easily [TS]

  for all apps like basically all at have [TS]

  to be rewritten to support multiple [TS]

  windows and iOS not to mention whatever [TS]

  kind of complexity the the iOS UI itself [TS]

  would have to add two people to manage [TS]

  their windows which i'm sure would not [TS]

  be good enough for John so you know I [TS]

  wonder like it is our is the idea of [TS]

  having all these things open a relic of [TS]

  the past that's going to die with the [TS]

  mac which might be sooner rather than [TS]

  later [TS]

  yeah I don't want to be clear I was [TS]

  actually just talking about them as [TS]

  again not as like browser tabs or [TS]

  separate areas but it's just the plane [TS]

  on you I can [TS]

  troll so the iOS ones would count as in [TS]

  a horizontal strip that has a bunch of [TS]

  things in it and when you hit one of the [TS]

  things a larger area above or below it [TS]

  changes to reflect the thing that you [TS]

  hit only one of them can be selected to [TS]

  the time that's totally what i was [TS]

  talking about you're talking about [TS]

  specifically the idea that it's [TS]

  user-controlled arbitrary in which case [TS]

  like a tab bar wouldn't count that's a [TS]

  different thing I understand people like [TS]

  people like the idea of a strip where [TS]

  you can hit a thing and it's always [TS]

  visible the radio buttons basically you [TS]

  can only pick one of them only one can [TS]

  be active at once and when you pick it [TS]

  the whole rest of some large area [TS]

  changes to reflect the thing that you [TS]

  picked tabs people of them i pasted a [TS]

  bunch of ones in there it's it i think i [TS]

  got about ten tend to pinstripes Justin [TS]

  10-3 look at those those tabs that are [TS]

  those not the tabs tabs that same [TS]

  control yeah change they change the [TS]

  appearance in I think 10 5 ish i haven't [TS]

  gotten up to that to look like segmented [TS]

  control it was like your same code all [TS]

  of a sudden would go from that to what [TS]

  you see today more or less with the [TS]

  segmented controls because it isn't it [TS]

  isn't just the the bar of words the top [TS]

  is it the whole frame there that makes [TS]

  it the whole card thing around it it's [TS]

  it's exactly the same as the segment to [TS]

  controlling so if you look at this look [TS]

  at one of these things and then just go [TS]

  to like system performance today it [TS]

  would you if you just took this code and [TS]

  were able to run it today it would look [TS]

  like it doesn't like the little recessed [TS]

  well i think i had a graphic because the [TS]

  cool thing was like they would change [TS]

  the original implementation they would [TS]

  change the texture of the well-liked the [TS]

  inset period ii-era inset area to be [TS]

  darker so if you nested a bunch of them [TS]

  just get darker and darker and darker [TS]

  and darker was fun [TS]

  the windows did that to ya all the [TS]

  windows tinted windows to the double row [TS]

  of tabs which was just about nobody [TS]

  windows windows had I believe they call [TS]

  it frames but it was like it was the [TS]

  similar kind of thing we'd have the [TS]

  inset area with a label or tab row at [TS]

  the top but of course windows did it [TS]

  uglier but more affordably you know that [TS]

  reminds me and I'll use this to segue [TS]

  into follow-up we had a handful of [TS]

  people write in and say that they are [TS]

  Microsoft employees that listen to the [TS]

  show and roof [TS]

  I'm sorry turns out there are some not [TS]

  yet not sort of your Microsoft employee [TS]

  I'm just sorry that well for me [TS]

  see anything we've ever said about [TS]

  anything microsoft product except [TS]

  apparently the surface sure we said we [TS]

  say nice things but Microsoft products [TS]

  all the time [TS]

  yeah and I understand from from what I [TS]

  hear from people who work there or have [TS]

  worked there [TS]

  it actually sounds like a pretty good [TS]

  place to work is that right [TS]

  we know that yeah I've always a Bible [TS]

  I've only ever heard good things about [TS]

  the the microsoft work environment and [TS]

  just like the kind of place at a store [TS]

  the you never have micro surface or [TS]

  learn about stack ranking and stuff like [TS]

  that bad things that I cannot believe me [TS]

  but when they're being right there being [TS]

  a really nice office [TS]

  mmm goodness in any case so i just [TS]

  wanted to thank those of you who have [TS]

  written in that are Microsoft employees [TS]

  and they all were quick to point out [TS]

  that they were not in the surface Studio [TS]

  group and they didn't know anyone from [TS]

  the surface Studio group which is [TS]

  unfortunate however it was still nice [TS]

  them to write in so thank you for that [TS]

  secondly John's extraordinarily nerdy [TS]

  and fiddly wish for a battery burndown [TS]

  chart guess where it exists kids but it [TS]

  exists an android because why wouldn't [TS]

  it [TS]

  so I did I didn't know what a burndown [TS]

  chart was as you correctly predicted [TS]

  during the show but i did of course find [TS]

  that afterwards for other people talking [TS]

  standard hasn't shown us what they look [TS]

  like and yeah actually pretty useful I [TS]

  would love the head and and I think now [TS]

  the the doors open for people to make [TS]

  that for the mac as a little battery [TS]

  widget for the menu bar honestly [TS]

  probably already existing copies don't [TS]

  know about it but that would be a I [TS]

  believe the market for that on the mac [TS]

  is now very real and i hope that either [TS]

  it already exists and it's good for [TS]

  somebody makes a good one [TS]

  yeah so there's that Mario run is now a [TS]

  thing it's out i personally have yet to [TS]

  try it [TS]

  I've been extremely busy but it'sit's [TS]

  out it's a thing and if you're John [TS]

  turkey sits maryo run so John how do you [TS]

  like Mariano run that's what i thought [TS]

  it would be i mean we've all seen the [TS]

  videos that plays like it plays it's [TS]

  fine you know the online thing is [TS]

  annoying the the UI that they put in [TS]

  there is is weird the first one [TS]

  experiences creddie but as I said last [TS]

  week like they get the first one for [TS]

  free because there's so much pent-up [TS]

  demand for nintendo game on iOS [TS]

  and it's a popular property and so I the [TS]

  first thing that you're just like oh [TS]

  it's been downloaded 2.8 million times [TS]

  the first day and then we have updated [TS]

  numbers 40 million times in the first [TS]

  four days and phil schiller made a [TS]

  statement in 10 domain statement feels [TS]

  is the fastest selling fast fastest [TS]

  downloaded game not fastest selling [TS]

  fastest downloaded game ever and then [TS]

  these various companies try to estimate [TS]

  how many people are actually buying it [TS]

  based on the top charts and all those [TS]

  stuff guessing that maybe four percent [TS]

  of the people who downloaded actually [TS]

  paid for its astronomical ten dollar [TS]

  price and so that means made like 16 [TS]

  million dollars which is you know pretty [TS]

  darn good [TS]

  yeah gonna see that money and then I [TS]

  don't know if it is already made back [TS]

  the amount of money it costs to develop [TS]

  it considering the use of third-party [TS]

  engine forward and had another developer [TS]

  i think help them actually do the dev [TS]

  work [TS]

  yeah so it's going well uh I their [TS]

  second game that they release i guess [TS]

  that probably still do okay on second it [TS]

  will be different property or whatever [TS]

  but uh I was a lot of people are sending [TS]

  feedback saying are saying you reviews [TS]

  that are saying that this shows the [TS]

  Nintendo or whoever helped them develop [TS]

  this game really understands the mobile [TS]

  platform because it's a great mobile [TS]

  game and it's good it's fine it's a good [TS]

  mobile game but I still feel like it is [TS]

  taking an existing game the 2d marrow [TS]

  game you're running from laughter with [TS]

  merry gentlemen stuff taking that and [TS]

  finding a way to make it work on mobile [TS]

  which is different than starting from [TS]

  scratch and finding a good mobile game [TS]

  idea and it's different subtle ways like [TS]

  I keep comparing it out those adventures [TS]

  like isn't exactly the same thing you [TS]

  just go from left to right any person [TS]

  button to do some stuff i would argue [TS]

  that it is not quite the same thing as [TS]

  altos adventure is not an established [TS]

  franchise skiing platform reported to [TS]

  single button press think it's conceived [TS]

  from the beginning to be a game for [TS]

  mobile I find it more pleasing than [TS]

  America game a partially because when I [TS]

  see him running [TS]

  from left to right I have certain [TS]

  expectations of gameplay and realizing [TS]

  that they had to subvert that and find a [TS]

  way and to their credit they did but [TS]

  find a way to make it interesting novel [TS]

  and fun while taking away freedoms that [TS]

  you expect when you see a static [TS]

  screenshot i expect to be able to stop [TS]

  and run left and i expect to run into [TS]

  going behind I instead of automatically [TS]

  vaulting over him like changing his [TS]

  expectations like you're getting a lot [TS]

  of pressure isn't that clever they did [TS]

  chose just the right balance of things [TS]

  to make the game different and fun or [TS]

  whatever was like but you are taking a [TS]

  different kind of gaming dressing it up [TS]

  and cause playing it as a merry game and [TS]

  I think it's a good game and people [TS]

  should probably get it's well worth the [TS]

  ten dollars you pay for it but it is i'm [TS]

  not saying this to say it's not a good [TS]

  game and you shouldn't buy but I think [TS]

  nintendo has not yet made a game [TS]

  conceived for the the mobile platform [TS]

  like every five had their mascots and [TS]

  everything but just like don't in the [TS]

  same way that Mary play soccer [TS]

  he plays baseball players I don't forget [TS]

  everything every sport he plays he [TS]

  drives around in go-karts and stuff and [TS]

  the same way you can take that property [TS]

  and put it on a different genre I they [TS]

  have not yet taken that property and put [TS]

  it on a jean room or a style of game [TS]

  made for mobile force instead they have [TS]

  taken an existing game style which is [TS]

  the 2d platformer and modified it to [TS]

  work better in this environment that I [TS]

  find the and I don't think that's a [TS]

  sustainable business for that it's just [TS]

  a way to get people into larger [TS]

  franchises that's fine but I'm still [TS]

  looking forward to the day where they [TS]

  come up with a game concept and idea [TS]

  that is for mobile first and truly plays [TS]

  to the strength of that platform in the [TS]

  way the pokemon go did basically but you [TS]

  know not not that specific franchise [TS]

  like we're very Merry whatever and then [TS]

  put whatever IP on that you want call it [TS]

  metroid pinball I don't care whatever [TS]

  you know whatever graphics you have to [TS]

  put on to make it palatable make people [TS]

  buy fine but they are quite there yet so [TS]

  ice continue to view this as then [TS]

  dipping their toes and making some money [TS]

  making some mistakes by making an [TS]

  online-only and doing silly things on [TS]

  first launched like [TS]

  can people pick their country from [TS]

  really long list instead of using [TS]

  location services and so on so forth but [TS]

  if you know but this is only a way to [TS]

  get people onto their other platforms [TS]

  which by the way even though these [TS]

  numbers look big [TS]

  they still make more money selling one [TS]

  of their other games on their own [TS]

  platforms because every single person [TS]

  who buys one of those games pay sport [TS]

  whereas 40 million downloads those are [TS]

  all paying ten dollars for things so [TS]

  right now still looks like a hedge and [TS]

  if they're going to commit to it will be [TS]

  able to tell when they start getting [TS]

  serious about the game's development for [TS]

  these platforms right now students it [TS]

  still seems like they're going for the [TS]

  switch and so we'll see how that turns [TS]

  out for them tomorrow if you play this [TS]

  at all [TS]

  of course I have it's my job to stay [TS]

  current on the world of video games [TS]

  so that's a no no I don't see how I and [TS]

  I honestly have enjoyed this game it is [TS]

  currently on my home screen I don't know [TS]

  how long it will stay there but it is [TS]

  currently there and I i used as a fun [TS]

  diversion [TS]

  I think they did overall a really good [TS]

  job with it there are areas of it that [TS]

  drive me nuts [TS]

  the internet connection thing hasn't [TS]

  hasn't hit me yet because i don't have a [TS]

  real job anymore but it will hit me next [TS]

  week when i'm traveling it and when i'm [TS]

  in areas with poor reception i will [TS]

  definitely hit me then but overall it's [TS]

  a really fun game i really enjoy I I [TS]

  like like what I'm doing is rather than [TS]

  just blowing through all the levels [TS]

  I'm I'm not moving on until I've gotten [TS]

  at least the first two coin colors the [TS]

  pink and the purple in each level and [TS]

  that and so like it what I like about [TS]

  this game is that while i'm probably [TS]

  playing it wrong by whatever john would [TS]

  say I'm supposed to play it [TS]

  I this game allows you to play it kinda [TS]

  however you want you can go through [TS]

  everything you can do like I haven't I [TS]

  haven't even done towards racetrack or [TS]

  whatever that is I haven't built [TS]

  anything I haven't read any of the [TS]

  various currencies have been earning or [TS]

  whatever all I've been doing is playing [TS]

  the levels to get the coins that's it [TS]

  and I've currently gotten through only [TS]

  world one doing it this way I haven't [TS]

  even gotten to the second row yet [TS]

  because I'm not very good at video games [TS]

  turns out but it's fun and I like this [TS]

  that this [TS]

  you that I I don't like how much [TS]

  overhead there is like in waiting for [TS]

  menus and stuff and waiting for loading [TS]

  screens [TS]

  I'm not crazy about that there's like to [TS]

  me like an iOS game like this is [TS]

  something that you should be able to [TS]

  play while waiting on line for something [TS]

  quickly and and it they they have [TS]

  there's a lot of friction involved in [TS]

  like getting started with this game and [TS]

  that's I don't know if nintendo is [TS]

  incapable of not doing it that way or [TS]

  they just think it's the right thing to [TS]

  do I don't know [TS]

  anyway I just like it's fun i I'm not [TS]

  analyzing it too deeply I'm just having [TS]

  fun with it because I'm I've always been [TS]

  more of a casual Nintendo fan I'm not [TS]

  like a super diehard Nintendo fan or a [TS]

  die-hard gamer for that matter so I'm [TS]

  having fun with its nice i bought the [TS]

  unlock I'm not going to give it one star [TS]

  review and that's it that's why I'm [TS]

  having fun with it and that phenomenon [TS]

  was the other story about this the fact [TS]

  that nintendo released what I think [TS]

  anyone would have to say is a really [TS]

  good iOS game like despite whatever you [TS]

  know stumbles and and the first launch [TS]

  party like it's a good game it's a fun [TS]

  game people enjoy playing it and the [TS]

  reviews are being massacred by people [TS]

  who don't want to pay money mostly by [TS]

  people who say this game is so fun [TS]

  it's so mean of you to ask me for money [TS]

  for it why couldn't you give me this [TS]

  game that's why i love this game isn't [TS]

  my loving this game enough for me to get [TS]

  it for free [TS]

  huge number of reviews say not worth ten [TS]

  dollars all of the people who like i [TS]

  would pay seven but not tense i come on [TS]

  anyway welcome to the appstore that [TS]

  there's so many things wrong with the [TS]

  app star and verbena I always wonder who [TS]

  read those reviews hoping to find out [TS]

  you know the in many ways this game is [TS]

  review proof because once if people are [TS]

  actually able to confirm that it is [TS]

  actually a Nintendo game and not a scam [TS]

  which is a topic that we keep pushing [TS]

  out on the shots might be able to get to [TS]

  and a future show if they're able to [TS]

  make that determination [TS]

  no one's reading the reviews say this is [TS]

  the one and only mario game on the app [TS]

  store let me read reviews first on the [TS]

  reviews on the app store maybe people we [TS]

  read reviews on their favorite like tech [TS]

  site they really care but people know [TS]

  whether they want to marry Oh game [TS]

  especially since it's free to download [TS]

  just get it [TS]

  the only people who are taking to the [TS]

  review section after you know I want to [TS]

  play this game but I can't spend ten do [TS]

  I have to think most of those people are [TS]

  younger people [TS]

  children who literally don't have ten [TS]

  dollars to spend are no I just can't [TS]

  imagine someone getting angry about ten [TS]

  dollars for nintendo and taking to the [TS]

  reviews about being angry and are not [TS]

  sign on to buy 50 John haha you you have [TS]

  never had an app in the App Store III [TS]

  for nintendo games specifically i'm [TS]

  thinking because you don't know it [TS]

  doesn't matter i don't think it matters [TS]

  it doesn't matter at all someone who [TS]

  isn't someone who's angry about their [TS]

  note-taking app or whatever i can [TS]

  understand them going to it because [TS]

  those are adults but these have to be [TS]

  children John when when you tell me what [TS]

  it's like to have a real job [TS]

  this is I'm telling you what it's like [TS]

  to have Anthony and just put your never [TS]

  could never put a Nintendo game on the [TS]

  app so obviously if you're creating it [TS]

  an app for adult it doesn't matter Jon [TS]

  that's the thing it doesn't matter how [TS]

  many people who how many of those ok so [TS]

  first of all they had was 40 million [TS]

  downloads so it doesn't take a lot of a [TS]

  high percentage of those to result in [TS]

  tons of reviews right so that that's why [TS]

  i think most of those one-star reviews [TS]

  complaining about the price are young [TS]

  people are children because it doesn't [TS]

  take a lot of them to you know to do the [TS]

  top 50 reviews is 40 million people 5750 [TS]

  cranky children you know who who spends [TS]

  the time to write a review for a [TS]

  Nintendo game like again its review [TS]

  proof is like a Star Wars movie [TS]

  I don't understand why you're hanging [TS]

  your hat why are you hanging your head [TS]

  on nintendo nobody gives a crap that [TS]

  it's nintendo finger all they care about [TS]

  is that it's a game that they want to [TS]

  play but they have to pay for their [TS]

  pissed off but but no but adults [TS]

  understand that no one is going to look [TS]

  at reviews for nintendo oh noes 0 [TS]

  they really don't know trust me they [TS]

  don't if you are if you heard adults who [TS]

  left an angry review about ten dollar [TS]

  game about this specific ten-dollar game [TS]

  plays right into us and tell us why you [TS]

  think it was a good idea for you to [TS]

  spend he's been writing a review for [TS]

  nintendo game for the one and only the [TS]

  first John nintendo game you don't you [TS]

  are and you are getting clouded by your [TS]

  own love nintendo there you are so out [TS]

  of touch on this one and your own faith [TS]

  in adults apparently it's not it's not [TS]

  about love nintendo it's about the idea [TS]

  i can't imagine it in adult wasting the [TS]

  time for to write an angry review about [TS]

  the one and only [TS]

  game on the app store just god you're [TS]

  gonna hate it feel free to not spend ten [TS]

  dollars on it that there are a lot of [TS]

  angry naive children of all ages [TS]

  yeah but i know i agree with that but I [TS]

  feel like those people are writing angry [TS]

  reviews about a two dollar note taking [TS]

  app they're not writing reviews about a [TS]

  ten-dollar Meyer again they very much [TS]

  are all you are so wrong job so little [TS]

  small so you don't know that because [TS]

  it's not ages attach this thing and [TS]

  neither one of you have written and the [TS]

  one and only nintendo game of the app [TS]

  store so I'm not arguing whether that [TS]

  were there are adults ending angry [TS]

  reviews about note-taking apps of course [TS]

  there are you can tell that they're [TS]

  adults running reviews about to open up [TS]

  taking app I know they're out there but [TS]

  for the nintendo game I feel like it's [TS]

  got to be young people it doesn't matter [TS]

  Jon it doesn't matter if it's a Nintendo [TS]

  or Vesper or your mom or 123 note-taker [TS]

  it doesn't matter the fact of the matter [TS]

  is it's ten dollars they don't want to [TS]

  spend so let me give you an example [TS]

  just today I was a target and I realized [TS]

  that captain america civil wars out and [TS]

  whether or not you [TS]

  the collective you liked that movie I [TS]

  enjoyed it and I wanted to buy it on [TS]

  blu-ray [TS]

  it was $15 so it was fifteen dollars for [TS]

  me to legally purchase a movie think [TS]

  about the incredible hoops adults go [TS]

  through adults who make over a hundred [TS]

  thousand dollars a year go through in [TS]

  order to rip off a fifteen-dollar [TS]

  blu-ray think of the think of all the [TS]

  trucks that they look in to see if the [TS]

  if the back is falling if the back has [TS]

  come off of them to say fifteen dollars [TS]

  on a movie and you think that they're [TS]

  going to say oh well this is Nintendo [TS]

  there okay [TS]

  they get a bye hell no you're [TS]

  misunderstanding what I'm saying those [TS]

  people you are not writing angry reviews [TS]

  they're not going to bestbuy and going [TS]

  to the bottom of the best buy store [TS]

  section where you by Civil War and [TS]

  saying this movie isn't worth fifteen [TS]

  dollars i would maybe pay ten dollars [TS]

  for fifteen dollars to watch one star [TS]

  have you see the Amazon reviews are [TS]

  coming here there's a lot of people out [TS]

  there who will who will complain about [TS]

  any other not there just because they're [TS]

  just going to go get the movie another [TS]

  way and it's not because they're they're [TS]

  laying off because Nintendo it's because [TS]

  they realize that nothing they can say [TS]

  in the comments section of a Nintendo [TS]

  game has any relevance to anybody no one [TS]

  is reading the comments section to [TS]

  decide whether they want to marry a game [TS]

  or not that's where this is the flaw in [TS]

  your logic John [TS]

  that these people who leave one star [TS]

  reviews think they have power they think [TS]

  this worry this they think this will [TS]

  hurt their sales they think that people [TS]

  will be forced to read this that people [TS]

  will respond to it somehow they think [TS]

  they're voting with their one-star they [TS]

  they really do think they are powerful [TS]

  and they are going to register their [TS]

  complaint and it's going to make a [TS]

  difference and someone's gonna have to [TS]

  face them but that's true i kno de [TS]

  Kamp's because people do read reviews [TS]

  and note-taking apps because they have [TS]

  to find which one of the eight thousand [TS]

  note-taking apps is any good so they [TS]

  actually do have power and the [TS]

  note-taking apps because by millions of [TS]

  people leaving credit reviews people [TS]

  will sort you know trying to find ones [TS]

  that have high standards are so [TS]

  confusing p logic with emotion didn't [TS]

  know this is so wrong there is no logic [TS]

  in appstore review and I understand [TS]

  about inventing understand those things [TS]

  like look I will and we don't have [TS]

  demographic so nobody actually knows the [TS]

  ages of these people even reviews [TS]

  you could try to surmise the ages by the [TS]

  grammar and punctuation but that is a [TS]

  better you can do the work i did you [TS]

  know but it gives you something to hang [TS]

  out on like that's all we've got to go [TS]

  on [TS]

  let the record show on the 21st to [TS]

  December in the year 2016 John syracuse [TS]

  was finally wrong about something and [TS]

  you have no idea who is right around was [TS]

  we don't have the demographics you just [TS]

  assume though we know you're wrong i [TS]

  would love to see the demo on this is [TS]

  its timely in people with all the all [TS]

  the demographics on come on [TS]

  yeah exactly now that yeah it is 40 [TS]

  million people but you think the 40 [TS]

  million people are evenly distributed [TS]

  the people who write reviews like [TS]

  demographically speaking there's an even [TS]

  distribution [TS]

  no I don't think they're told I don't [TS]

  think it's a bell curve hovering around [TS]

  10 year old so all right here here let's [TS]

  put it this way said let's say a [TS]

  distribution wise for gender what do you [TS]

  think the distribution is of gender [TS]

  people writing reviews as compared to [TS]

  the purchaser so let's say the purchase [TS]

  are 5050 [TS]

  what do you think distribution is of [TS]

  angry commenters probably a little bit [TS]

  more mail but probably not as much as [TS]

  you think a little bit more i'm going on [TS]

  98 degrees John mountain I wouldn't have [TS]

  got to have sent this is an example of [TS]

  how the the demographics of commentaries [TS]

  can be wildly out of line with [TS]

  demographics of downloads your [TS]

  purchasers oh sure however there is [TS]

  absolutely no way that the people [TS]

  commenting on this are only children [TS]

  because the adult know that it doesn't [TS]

  matter and it only I said mostly I [TS]

  said mostly evidence that only I still [TS]

  disagree how many children do you know [TS]

  that have iphones I know it's a lot but [TS]

  still come on [TS]

  I i include young adults like I said [TS]

  Young kalo that changes everything [TS]

  these are people of all ages who want to [TS]

  get their satisfaction I want to be [TS]

  heard and want to send a message to [TS]

  those greedy money-grabbing people [TS]

  intend oh that is trust me that it's [TS]

  this is the after i haven't read my app [TS]

  store reviews for overcast in probably [TS]

  two years and i have been so much more [TS]

  mentally healthy as a result of that [TS]

  because for years I would worry [TS]

  what would the reviewers say what with [TS]

  every change i made with everything i [TS]

  did or didn't do I was constantly word [TS]

  my apps like what will get more one [TS]

  stars for this and you know what it [TS]

  doesn't matter at all the vast majority [TS]

  of the time if you have any number if [TS]

  you basically have anybody looking for [TS]

  your app for any other reason if they [TS]

  heard about it somewhere if they know it [TS]

  by name whatever else if you have any [TS]

  number of people seeking out your app [TS]

  reviews don't matter and if you don't [TS]

  have a number of people seeking out your [TS]

  app you're going to fail anyway so [TS]

  really it kinda doesn't matter and fully [TS]

  any i can i can urge all developers out [TS]

  there please if you read your itunes [TS]

  reviews you're after reviews its a [TS]

  podcaster I don't read those either take [TS]

  six months and don't read them and see [TS]

  what happens it are you happier is [TS]

  anything differently your sales and [TS]

  different and probably not it's so true [TS]

  so um there's a feedback form within the [TS]

  app that are that I work on at work and [TS]

  it emails a mailing list that's internal [TS]

  to the office and in all the the [TS]

  developers iOS and Android get all of [TS]

  the feedback from both iOS and Android [TS]

  and you would not believe the amount of [TS]

  four-letter words and demands that we [TS]

  get just the other day I was stunned [TS]

  somebody wrote in such as such thing [TS]

  doesn't work i expect this to be fixed [TS]

  immediately like this is just some [TS]

  random Schmo writing into the ether they [TS]

  have no idea who this is going to expect [TS]

  us to be fixed immediately but what it [TS]

  was clearly an adult like this was not a [TS]

  child this was an adult [TS]

  you don't have to convince me that the [TS]

  adults and send angry applicant angry [TS]

  emails and random feedback about Apple [TS]

  could not attend oh yeah no it doesn't [TS]

  match it looks all I'm saying is this [TS]

  specific game i would say the reviews [TS]

  are skewed way more mail than the [TS]

  purchasers and skew way younger than the [TS]

  purchaser's not just by like a [TS]

  percentage or two but hugely way more [TS]

  mail and way younger and I'm gonna and I [TS]

  would say that if you took the top 10 or [TS]

  20 angry as one star reviews complaining [TS]

  solely about price [TS]

  those are going to be dudes and they're [TS]

  gonna be between the ages of young [TS]

  enough to be able to write in to review [TS]

  and like 25 I'm not something that I [TS]

  mean you might be right i don't know but [TS]

  i doubt it's not there all children it's [TS]

  not that adults don't write an angry [TS]

  things other applications is not the [TS]

  reviews kill other applications all [TS]

  those things are not things that I said [TS]

  I said that I have to think these are [TS]

  mostly children which it nailed down [TS]

  into more concrete terms that these [TS]

  reviewers sku more younger and more mail [TS]

  and the more mail i think you can both [TS]

  get on board with because honestly like [TS]

  that men are terrible like just you know [TS]

  that this term it's that's a gimme [TS]

  right and and and not because people not [TS]

  because men refused to buy things more [TS]

  than anything it's just they're going to [TS]

  tell you about it right and and then [TS]

  young people like all people don't have [TS]

  time for that crap right so it's just a [TS]

  question of how are ya how it skews [TS]

  compared to the demographics right that [TS]

  the male part i agree with the youth I [TS]

  agree with I believe these are both like [TS]

  you know it it does sku that direction [TS]

  it's not all men it's not all young [TS]

  people i read right but but compared to [TS]

  that compared to the purchaser's because [TS]

  i don't have to think the purchaser's [TS]

  it's probably even gender split from [TS]

  area like it's a popular you nobody will [TS]

  say it is all ages and it doesn't matter [TS]

  whether they've heard intended or not [TS]

  everyone's hurting Tendo doesn't [TS]

  surprise heard of Nintendo but not but I [TS]

  think your affection for nintendo is [TS]

  deeply clouding your perspective here we [TS]

  were somewhere that has nothing to do [TS]

  with affection it has to do with it with [TS]

  an understanding that the older you get [TS]

  the more you realize what Marco just [TS]

  said that no one reads those reviews to [TS]

  find out whether they're gonna download [TS]

  a game and all you have left is venting [TS]

  about [TS]

  and little really don't eventually give [TS]

  up on venting because they realize oh no [TS]

  they do not [TS]

  are you kidding or do you have you ever [TS]

  been around an old person the only do is [TS]

  vent their writing to their congressmen [TS]

  and sending angry letters to the diner [TS]

  because it was cold [TS]

  it's not different that's a different [TS]

  than find different outlets oh noes [TS]

  others there's a personality type that [TS]

  liked that they they need to get their [TS]

  satisfaction and they need to make their [TS]

  voice heard about every minor complete [TS]

  in their life i mean i can't i can't [TS]

  really talk that much but isn't that [TS]

  type of this does not change over time [TS]

  this does not they don't like grow out [TS]

  of that that stays with people forever [TS]

  their entire lives all ages [TS]

  that's what well maybe we have to wait [TS]

  until the generation that grew up with [TS]

  the app store gets that age but they're [TS]

  not that a jet all right we were circle [TS]

  we're going in circles and this let's [TS]

  move on but let me make sure you need to [TS]

  do apple is put demographic information [TS]

  attached to all the comments so we can [TS]

  just settle down there and say oh male [TS]

  18 male 22 male 25 always press but we [TS]

  go [TS]

  God of all the by the way if you go to [TS]

  like here let's try to think of the [TS]

  application that has the audience that [TS]

  skews the oldest so what the the oldest [TS]

  / I guess is probably health-related [TS]

  like a blood-pressure things are like [TS]

  health monitoring some broadcast TV apps [TS]

  like an NBC app or something maybe but [TS]

  that's probably broader than you think [TS]

  but now maybe the CBS app is he was real [TS]

  right and I have trouble because those [TS]

  people who are that age didn't grow up [TS]

  with the app store i have trouble at [TS]

  thinking how many of them realize that [TS]

  leaving a review is a thing you can do [TS]

  even though they know they know i think [TS]

  in small numbers but anyway Oh John your [TS]

  innocence beautiful i would love to read [TS]

  the angry reviews of of the application [TS]

  whose room whose custom rescue the [TS]

  oldest some maybe the AARP app or [TS]

  something [TS]

  facebook because that I think they would [TS]

  look and comparing them like sentence [TS]

  structure wise like with the things [TS]

  they're about how they express [TS]

  themselves to the angry Mary reviews i [TS]

  think you could feed the text through [TS]

  one of those like guess the age and [TS]

  education level and year they were born [TS]

  based on the words and sentence [TS]

  structure they use [TS]

  I i think the incredibly angry AARP app [TS]

  reviews would look materially different [TS]

  than the incredibly angry [TS]

  Mariana reviews wow we have a new [TS]

  sponsor this week it is called we sell [TS]

  socks so it's that we sell socks dot-com [TS]

  and that everyone just it'sit's a [TS]

  one-person operation [TS]

  he's a fan of the show and he said [TS]

  whatever your request that Marco John [TS]

  Casey critique the site and the service [TS]

  negative and positive on first glance [TS]

  instead of doing a regular add read that [TS]

  is a bold bold maneuver my goodness [TS]

  terrible idea [TS]

  Johns Creek originally as even as you [TS]

  never listen to the show it's a good [TS]

  thing I'm not riled up today [TS]

  haha so I think we should probably save [TS]

  John for last case you wanna go first or [TS]

  should I opening hero image good not a [TS]

  movie good 14-month 14-month it's it's a [TS]

  little aggressive depending on how much [TS]

  how many socks you get into how fancy [TS]

  they are scrolling down pretty good [TS]

  calls to action pretty simple [TS]

  Paul quote good faq smells site looks [TS]

  good and i don't i'm not clear on how [TS]

  many pairs of socks you get fourteen [TS]

  dollars a month but the Sox look nice [TS]

  they're colorful seems good to me i also [TS]

  was not sure so forty dollars a month is [TS]

  working hours when delivered worldwide [TS]

  and with a clarification and it's [TS]

  actually $14 Canadian oh because about [TS]

  ten dollars us but there's a five-dollar [TS]

  shipping charge on top of that i believe [TS]

  and so that ends up being $14 fifteen [TS]

  cents us including happy but it's not [TS]

  working out about to see him so anyway [TS]

  robot shipping that's good and they also [TS]

  do a cool thing where where for every [TS]

  pair that he sells and i'm pretty sure i [TS]

  also didn't know how many pairs you get [TS]

  i'm pretty sure it's one pair for that [TS]

  that's because it's like he's like fancy [TS]

  socks is not like it is like a pack of [TS]

  hands like he's like fancy designer [TS]

  socks like that like people who are [TS]

  cooler than us would usually wear right [TS]

  although honestly I have been thinking [TS]

  about whether i want to get into the [TS]

  world of fun socks because right now [TS]

  we're very more assume that you always [TS]

  the same black t-shirt every single day [TS]

  jeans and a black teachers but every [TS]

  de socks are different exactly oh my god [TS]

  you two are out of control i need to [TS]

  start drinking [TS]

  holy crap so anyway so at and he also [TS]

  has a school thing where for every pair [TS]

  he sells he donates a pair to a local [TS]

  shelter for people in need [TS]

  almost there and it's not like it is it [TS]

  isn't don't like a crappy pair here it's [TS]

  a good pair along with the pair that you [TS]

  buy all that that's awesome so it's it's [TS]

  a cool mission i think the cycle [TS]

  communicate this better because like the [TS]

  thing about like how that's 14 hours a [TS]

  month Canadian and that it's one pair of [TS]

  socks and there needs to be [TS]

  clarification on that but otherwise I [TS]

  think it's pretty cool you know i know [TS]

  there are other sock subscription [TS]

  services out there but i would try this [TS]

  one first honestly I've always I i will [TS]

  reveal a secret to you guys i have [TS]

  always had a dream of getting a [TS]

  subscription service where i could wear [TS]

  a pair of brand new socks every day of [TS]

  course of course content of new socks is [TS]

  so awesome you know and and the reason [TS]

  why I've never done this because it just [TS]

  obviously sounds incredibly wasteful and [TS]

  because what do you do with socks that [TS]

  were worn once like for one day at like [TS]

  you can't just throw it away that's [TS]

  terrible [TS]

  and nobody really wants used socks so I [TS]

  haven't ever done this or started this [TS]

  business or patronize any such [TS]

  businesses because that would seem [TS]

  ridiculous but I feel like one pair of [TS]

  of cool new socks a month might be a [TS]

  nice compromise you are the clothing [TS]

  equivalent of the billionaire who smoke [TS]

  cigarette once and goodness and [TS]

  cigarettes but sure yeah I'm pretty sure [TS]

  I know what you're referring to [TS]

  I I'm all right side i did look at that [TS]

  time I had the same question I think it [TS]

  needs to be clear how many things you [TS]

  get I maybe i would throw in some more [TS]

  reassuring text about like if you want [TS]

  to bail you just cancel like the options [TS]

  the stuff like that because you want to [TS]

  overcome people's you want you to tell [TS]

  people the deal is quickly and overcome [TS]

  people's anxiety about getting roped [TS]

  into something as for the concept Marco [TS]

  aside which is something like a little [TS]

  bit okay this is a thing that i have [TS]

  seen like the idea that interesting [TS]

  socks is part of [TS]

  your look and I can imagine if that was [TS]

  part of something you do just have fun [TS]

  with your clothing [TS]

  it's not that easy to find interesting [TS]

  socks and also you never quite know like [TS]

  if you're presented with you just going [TS]

  at C&C like billions and billions of [TS]

  weird socks which one should i get now [TS]

  or whatever they're the aspect of having [TS]

  someone do the picking for you and just [TS]

  like you know having a be a surprise you [TS]

  say like you take know whatever you you [TS]

  arrive that's what you're gonna take [TS]

  that is both freeing and a little bit [TS]

  interesting and exciting so i can [TS]

  imagine people not Margo doing this and [TS]

  and getting a kick out of it [TS]

  the website my only real complaint of [TS]

  the the whatever those non loading [TS]

  images are is a hate when they do the [TS]

  little cut away with this the you know [TS]

  the position fix background as you [TS]

  scroll things above it so that the [TS]

  pictures like that back when you scroll [TS]

  I don't like that i don't like things [TS]

  that break the physical metaphor of the [TS]

  scrolling page i know of course you kids [TS]

  like that but it's it's not for me [TS]

  yeah and I think there's a lot of space [TS]

  taken up by stuff that is not the the [TS]

  most important to repair me to have [TS]

  three paragraphs on anything but I feel [TS]

  like information density could be better [TS]

  legs than that yeah I it's not for me [TS]

  it's probably not for Marco but I have [TS]

  seen people in real life who are into [TS]

  fancy socks and I subscribe to the idea [TS]

  of putting that into someone else's [TS]

  hands [TS]

  so anyway I think it's a cool i think [TS]

  it's a cool service i think john i agree [TS]

  with you that if i were to be a fancy [TS]

  sock person I would want someone else [TS]

  who is more fashionable and into sock [TS]

  choices than me to be choosing them for [TS]

  me and that's what this would offer and [TS]

  I think I might do something crazy like [TS]

  this because you know for basically like [TS]

  half of the days of my life when I put [TS]

  on my outfit which is the same thing [TS]

  everyday about half the time I put on [TS]

  the socks i think wouldn't it be great [TS]

  if all of my socks were exactly the same [TS]

  and I wouldn't have to match up the [TS]

  subtle difference between texts like [TS]

  minor black pattern variations that [TS]

  solves the problem of different areas [TS]

  right and then the other half of the [TS]

  mornings I think you know maybe I could [TS]

  try some fun socks some time because [TS]

  everything also where is boring and I [TS]

  like it that way to keep it that way but [TS]

  I'm always wearing a nice watch and I [TS]

  wouldn't mind always wearing cool socks [TS]

  so I have thought about this before and [TS]

  I'm I might I might do it i also like [TS]

  the idea that inevitably you'll get some [TS]

  socks that you that you think you're [TS]

  hideous in the same way like Jelly [TS]

  Bellies when it's like a bad flavor i [TS]

  think that is part of the front that you [TS]

  know the whole idea of let's understand [TS]

  how much socks as you're going to have [TS]

  someone that are like exciting cool and [TS]

  fun and maybe you wouldn't pick up for [TS]

  yourself and you can have some of that [TS]

  hideous and that is part of the fun [TS]

  that's true yeah or just suppose to you [TS]

  well you know you can you should you [TS]

  should still wear them i can do a thing [TS]

  of like even when they come in they're [TS]

  hideous in the same way that you end up [TS]

  eating like the jelly bean flavor you [TS]

  don't like or like you put them all side [TS]

  but then when you're done you still have [TS]

  more jelly beans you just eat all the [TS]

  black ones anyway it wasn't the worst [TS]

  anyway thanks thanks to we sell socks [TS]

  for sponsoring our show and check it out [TS]

  thanks we sell socks [TS]

  ah did you guys get your pots i did [TS]

  wanted to I i got my little clicking [TS]

  case right here fancy nice and what do [TS]

  you think [TS]

  which one you have to address one of us [TS]

  posted 101 is that one time this is the [TS]

  one time that the two of you don't jump [TS]

  in and you wait for me to give you this [TS]

  further that's ever happened i didn't [TS]

  light up stupid fun fun up because i [TS]

  would have gone i would have gone for [TS]

  but i wanted to i want to go back to [TS]

  this the the item i had for their [TS]

  problems before we had received are so [TS]

  this was last week is about why they [TS]

  were delayed you know they they were [TS]

  expected i think everyone that was there [TS]

  so they're going to come in October [TS]

  something and it's like we're the airpot [TS]

  there's no there's some sort of delay [TS]

  and apple had to scrap its entire first [TS]

  production around of the things and and [TS]

  remake a whole bunch of other in short [TS]

  supply and there's a bunch of stories [TS]

  about that and whatever their shipping [TS]

  now and it was difficult to get them for [TS]

  Christmas and and even in the new year [TS]

  will be difficult and apple stores are [TS]

  getting tiring shipments but what I'm [TS]

  interested in is the idea of the delay [TS]

  because a lot of people of were upset [TS]

  about just because people want what they [TS]

  want but also applesauce to be good at [TS]

  making things what are they [TS]

  why did they do this and I think this is [TS]

  a situation where is anyone who is who [TS]

  thinks this delay is indicative of [TS]

  something bad about apple or problem has [TS]

  things backwards it's disappointing like [TS]

  you know obviously Apple would have [TS]

  liked to have gotten them out sooner and [TS]

  someone made a mistake somewhere or [TS]

  whatever but the fact that there's a [TS]

  delay is exactly what we want Apple to [TS]

  be doing especially in light of like the [TS]

  samsung galaxy note you know batteries [TS]

  exploding or whatever it is that the [TS]

  note 7 batteries exploding like the most [TS]

  important thing Apple can do is make [TS]

  sure that whatever it is they ship meets [TS]

  their standards for whatever aesthetics [TS]

  reliability safety so on and so forth [TS]

  whatever this problem was that caused [TS]

  them to have to delay the thing that's [TS]

  exactly what we wanted to do like I was [TS]

  ideally that you don't mess up right but [TS]

  if you do mess up you have to do the [TS]

  right thing and I just can't uh I can't [TS]

  you know think about people being angry [TS]

  at apple for delays like this is exactly [TS]

  what we mean if anything ever goes wrong [TS]

  is it well why did you ship it wasn't [TS]

  ready [TS]

  don't ship if it's not we say that about [TS]

  software all the time is it's like [TS]

  quadruple true [TS]

  about hardware so I don't know what the [TS]

  problem was I don't really care what the [TS]

  problem was i would much rather have a [TS]

  product that is ready to be released [TS]

  then one that is rushed out and have [TS]

  some sort of problem because who wants [TS]

  to get their pods and find out there's [TS]

  some little flaw and some you know even [TS]

  two percent of the people have to end up [TS]

  going back to the apple store that's [TS]

  terrible must go back to the apple store [TS]

  i'll wait an extra two months ship it [TS]

  when it's done so i'm not gonna say I [TS]

  applaud the delay because no one likes a [TS]

  delay and again ideally whatever the [TS]

  problem was Apple would have called [TS]

  earlier and fixed it and you know this [TS]

  is not exactly a good thing but this is [TS]

  exactly what I want a a company to do [TS]

  when they do make a mistake which [TS]

  happens companies made of people people [TS]

  make mistakes when they do make a [TS]

  mistake and do the right thing about it [TS]

  and it seems like that's what they did [TS]

  here [TS]

  cool i'm a little bummed that there was [TS]

  a delay just because he seem like [TS]

  they're super cool but I i completely [TS]

  agree with you that that if you're going [TS]

  to roll the dice you you died [TS]

  error on the side of caution and in gosh [TS]

  only knows what the delay was i think [TS]

  was i fix it said that there were some [TS]

  dubious tolerances or something like [TS]

  that in the case which they somehow [TS]

  extrapolated to mean that maybe there [TS]

  was some some build quality issues I [TS]

  don't know about that one way the other [TS]

  hand that didn't that didn't read write [TS]

  to me that that that read a lot more [TS]

  like be completely baseless speculation [TS]

  than anything real [TS]

  I agree yeah like that's how I read it [TS]

  too which is why I was kind of confused [TS]

  by it but anyway but i don't know that [TS]

  we'll ever know why the why there was a [TS]

  delay but it's certainly I like you said [TS]

  I'll take the delay and they did he get [TS]

  in by the end of the year and i'll take [TS]

  the delay over some sort of flawed [TS]

  family if anything I'm hoping at this [TS]

  point that they didn't do anything silly [TS]

  to rush it out just to get something [TS]

  ready for the holiday season of anything [TS]

  I you know I'm hoping that like it [TS]

  really was ready to ship and there [TS]

  wasn't some immense pressure because [TS]

  obviously there's immense pressure ship [TS]

  but you know in time for the holidays [TS]

  right uh and that can cause that's [TS]

  exactly what causes a company say well [TS]

  under normal circumstances I wouldn't do [TS]

  it because we have to make the holiday [TS]

  season [TS]

  everybody's on here under huge amount of [TS]

  pressure to just make it happen even if [TS]

  they're not quite up to where they want [TS]

  them to be and I haven't heard any [TS]

  stories yet I guess we'll find out in [TS]

  a couple months of our pods dire [TS]

  whatever but I'm hoping that they waited [TS]

  long enough because honestly like that's [TS]

  the right move for the companies like [TS]

  you your reputation as Apple as they [TS]

  come you know just a samsung again it [TS]

  you your reputation for reliability and [TS]

  and doing the right thing and only [TS]

  shipping products that are of the [TS]

  standard people expect especially for [TS]

  hardware you can't ship a CH right you [TS]

  can't fix it in the point release that [TS]

  is so much more important than even [TS]

  hitting the holiday season especially [TS]

  for company was much money in the bank [TS]

  is Apple you have to miss the holiday [TS]

  season [TS]

  miss the holiday season you get dinged [TS]

  for it and you'll say hey you tried to [TS]

  the holiday season with your product and [TS]

  you didn't and that's bad and you have [TS]

  made a mistake but it's still a lesser [TS]

  mistake then shipping people here pods [TS]

  and blow up in their ears or whatever [TS]

  yeah and for whatever it's worth 80 tips [TS]

  on the chat is saying that the issue was [TS]

  not blowing up in your ears [TS]

  it was a manufacturing problem initially [TS]

  related to the bluetooth hardware that [TS]

  it was not performing well and was using [TS]

  excessive battery during operation so [TS]

  that could be true any of those things [TS]

  like oh I got my ear pods they don't [TS]

  connect or the battery runs out too [TS]

  quickly and you know it again [TS]

  Apple can't patch it if it's a hardware [TS]

  problem so yeah and it does seem like [TS]

  the basic operation of the most people [TS]

  have had them for one or two days so far [TS]

  but it does seem like they work well and [TS]

  then with with a few exceptions a few [TS]

  people have had like you know [TS]

  interference problems or connection [TS]

  problems with them but with with those [TS]

  few exceptions that I've seen almost [TS]

  everyone who has them seems very happy [TS]

  with them so you guys starting with [TS]

  Marco one more item to know god that was [TS]

  the perfect segue we're not beholding to [TS]

  the damn notes job okay John Jenni you [TS]

  are you are you are the Warriors you're [TS]

  into the passage of time earlier things [TS]

  and then they're followed by later [TS]

  things [TS]

  Oh John the earlier item is at first [TS]

  while apple's market have you lost any [TS]

  of your project [TS]

  I don't know TIFF has them right now but [TS]

  when I gave it to her an hour ago last [TS]

  time you saw them they were both there [TS]

  that's alright i have lost mine either [TS]

  but if I did was ask them last show what [TS]

  we do about it [TS]

  you can apparently replace one 470 bucks [TS]

  i did have one follow my ear during [TS]

  the first two hours of using it alright [TS]

  well now we can shift into market [TS]

  telling us all these nobody thinks that [TS]

  I just wanted to be just wanted to get [TS]

  the best that was a question that show [TS]

  what happens if you lose one answer 70 [TS]

  bucks yeah so that's obviously not bad [TS]

  you know for what they cost that's [TS]

  that's fine that's that it's good they [TS]

  will sell you individual ones at all you [TS]

  know because they could have just very [TS]

  well said well you gotta buy a new pair [TS]

  oh well and you know so i have to have [TS]

  an option at all to buy individual ones [TS]

  to replace lost broken ones is nice [TS]

  yes so my impressions overall as you [TS]

  know i'm reviewing all the headphones in [TS]

  the universe and basically my my [TS]

  concerns before this were I've never had [TS]

  an apple earpods or any year pot or any [TS]

  year but or any in out any ear near [TS]

  canal phone that fit me comfortably and [TS]

  and well that eat that both was [TS]

  comfortable and would stay in I've never [TS]

  found 1i my ears are just weird i guess [TS]

  and i was concerned the Pierre pods [TS]

  would fit me as well as the earpods do [TS]

  which is with mediocrity with some [TS]

  discomfort and they fall out and I was [TS]

  also concerned about the lack of of [TS]

  controls on the earpods on the airport [TS]

  excuse me but it's come to take this [TS]

  week and that is actually I you know the [TS]

  lack of of like volume and play pause [TS]

  and and seek back seat forward which are [TS]

  very commonly used in podcasts one [TS]

  person i'm sorry i forgot the name is [TS]

  one person twitter said I've heard more [TS]

  ads and overcast this week than I ever [TS]

  have before with you haha but anyway [TS]

  thanks to our sponsors so you know [TS]

  they're the only have either Siri or [TS]

  play/pause with the double tap gesture [TS]

  now we've gone over this before so [TS]

  anyway when they arrived those are my [TS]

  concerns and they are exactly what i [TS]

  thought they would be in good and bad [TS]

  ways so in all the good ways the the [TS]

  pairing process is awesome the case the [TS]

  battery charging all that stuff is [TS]

  awesome [TS]

  the case is a little bit thick for [TS]

  pocket use it fits okay in a little like [TS]

  change pocket on top of your jeans right [TS]

  pocket if it's okay in there [TS]

  I didn't [TS]

  think about that but otherwise they're [TS]

  great they they actually you know i'm [TS]

  not a huge fan of of your buds for sound [TS]

  purposes but these sound pretty good if [TS]

  you like hold them in especially like [TS]

  basically the the amount of base that [TS]

  earbuds have depends entirely on how [TS]

  well they seal snugly inside of your ear [TS]

  if they seal well if if they can really [TS]

  rest in there really get land really [TS]

  like large themselves in there you will [TS]

  get great base and they will stay in and [TS]

  if you are not mean they might even be [TS]

  comfortable [TS]

  yeah I couldn't agree with you more i'm [TS]

  sorry for jumping in but i have a pair [TS]

  of ultimate years I don't know how [TS]

  they're classified but they're they're [TS]

  basically earphones and I could not [TS]

  agree with you more that when I have [TS]

  them seated just right they are probably [TS]

  the best sounding speakers that i own [TS]

  and I have a couple of pretty decent [TS]

  pair of headphones notnot Marco crazy [TS]

  good but decent pair of headphones and [TS]

  and I actually think the stereo my car [TS]

  is really darn good as well but these [TS]

  ultimate ears are phenomenal as long as [TS]

  they're seated properly and the moment [TS]

  they get even the teensy weensy is bit [TS]

  unseeded it's a totally different [TS]

  scenario yet so that's what the airports [TS]

  are exactly the same base when they are [TS]

  very well seated so that you get good [TS]

  base out of them [TS]

  the sound quality is very good when [TS]

  they're that seated the the harshness of [TS]

  like Antoninus of the mid-range and the [TS]

  high is that you often get if they're [TS]

  out a little more that gets softened and [TS]

  and rolled off and muted a little bit so [TS]

  it's actually a very well balanced sound [TS]

  and 460 dollars a properly sealed air [TS]

  pod is a really good deal in the [TS]

  headphone world it's it's not the best [TS]

  but it's really good especially for [TS]

  something that small so when they're [TS]

  well steal the sound good when they are [TS]

  not well see like how they sit in my [TS]

  ears they said a little loose i can't [TS]

  get them to seal because whatever my [TS]

  ears suck the base suffers tremendously [TS]

  but the rest of the sound actually isn't [TS]

  too bad the mid-range it's a little bit [TS]

  accentuated and so it sounds a little [TS]

  bit more harsh but overall I'm very [TS]

  pleasantly surprised by how good they [TS]

  sound and I really wish they fit me [TS]

  better because [TS]

  I would use them a lot more [TS]

  unfortunately they don't they fall out [TS]

  of my ears even if I'm just like I more [TS]

  than yesterday when I was wrapping gifts [TS]

  like walking around the table bending [TS]

  over here and there and they fell out at [TS]

  one of them fell after a few minutes the [TS]

  fortunately I kind of felt happening so [TS]

  i call it the other day area yesterday [TS]

  whatever was i I took my dog for a walk [TS]

  also and had to bend over to pick up [TS]

  something that you have to do when you [TS]

  take your dog for a walk and got the [TS]

  worst almost happened [TS]

  oh god it didn't it missed by like a few [TS]

  inches tall spent seventy dollars at the [TS]

  apple store that day didn't buy a new [TS]

  one you can clean that off come on [TS]

  natural and you clean that off I ok but [TS]

  yeah so you have a kid you know it's [TS]

  like everything in your house is covered [TS]

  pooped and pretend it isn't i put in my [TS]

  ear something you are you don't nobody [TS]

  want so yeah manufacture the they don't [TS]

  end and that actually happened to Jason [TS]

  smells well you mentioned upgrade this [TS]

  week so yeah I they don't fit me well [TS]

  and it's unfortunate because they are it [TS]

  is really nice to have something that [TS]

  small on the the double tap to play [TS]

  pause i have found to be fairly [TS]

  unreliable you have to tap it pretty [TS]

  firmly to get it to work reliably and [TS]

  that's not good because it's kind of [TS]

  uncomfortable [TS]

  why would you do that rather than just [TS]

  probably one of the earbuds out so you [TS]

  can do that too [TS]

  so basically I'm just saying like you [TS]

  know for reference for reference the [TS]

  gesture of either invoking serie [TS]

  ordering play positive but depending on [TS]

  your preference [TS]

  it is a little inconsistent a little [TS]

  little tricky to do reliably so that's [TS]

  unfortunate but other than that they're [TS]

  fine the sound is better than I expected [TS]

  they are you know small and light and [TS]

  they almost fit in my pocket comfortably [TS]

  with the charging case and without of [TS]

  course you could do everyone with them [TS]

  they do unfortunately fall out of my [TS]

  ears and so I i am i'm not going to [TS]

  return them like they're nice to have [TS]

  around but I think they'll be more like [TS]

  something I keep in my backpack for like [TS]

  a forgot big headphones and I'm like on [TS]

  a trip or I'm going to the city you know [TS]

  maybe I bring them that they said [TS]

  something like that like where [TS]

  like I'm not gonna be like bending over [TS]

  much I'm i even get like sitting on a [TS]

  train or a bus for a while like that [TS]

  would be better for that but i don't so [TS]

  I'm gonna keep them i'm glad i have them [TS]

  but I'm probably not gonna use them [TS]

  heavily because they just are physically [TS]

  incompatible with me in a pretty big way [TS]

  unfortunately also i found if you have a [TS]

  winter hat over them it could help hold [TS]

  them in because the winter was over [TS]

  years and then you know like not too [TS]

  tight but like it'll basically they want [TS]

  for their basic it's impossible to fall [TS]

  out with my big heavy winter hat pulled [TS]

  down over my ears [TS]

  yeah i'll try that next actually because [TS]

  walking with like bigger headphones is [TS]

  not great in the winter but now so let's [TS]

  try that [TS]

  so John what do you think about yours I [TS]

  agree with most things market said mud [TS]

  at the ear arab thing your pods do stay [TS]

  and my ears like the plain old earpods [TS]

  do and so do the air pods because i keep [TS]

  reading reviews of like whether they're [TS]

  shaped differently even jason said he [TS]

  thought they were shaped differently and [TS]

  I looked it my you know the ones that [TS]

  came with my iphone 7 and these and as [TS]

  far as my eyeballs can tell without a [TS]

  micrometer they are identically shaped [TS]

  anyway they they stay in my ears just [TS]

  fine just like all the other ones have [TS]

  and i've been using them for a long time [TS]

  now so that's not a problem for me i was [TS]

  interested to see how they would change [TS]

  the way you know I listen to stuff [TS]

  because I do listen during my commute [TS]

  and the community bluetooth in the car [TS]

  obviously but walking to my car [TS]

  you know I just a long walk but even [TS]

  just a walk around the house in the [TS]

  morning and then I go out to my car and [TS]

  I get into my car and then it comes with [TS]

  a bluetooth and I take out my headphones [TS]

  and i drive to work i want to get out of [TS]

  my car from the umpteenth for the [TS]

  parking garage of my phones back in and [TS]

  I walked all through the parking garage [TS]

  in the building it you know so I'm using [TS]

  my headphones for the walking part of my [TS]

  commute and also wear them a lot when I [TS]

  am doing dishes are when I'm cooking [TS]

  a dinner at night and stuff like that [TS]

  just other are just folding laundry or [TS]

  whatever just doing my must work by [TS]

  myself and not using my bluetooth [TS]

  speakers and sometimes because i want to [TS]

  start by the people in my house so x is [TS]

  just you know you just want to have your [TS]

  own thing so i thought these would be [TS]

  ideal because i wanted some of this for [TS]

  a long time we're talking about it as [TS]

  many you know like six months ago or a [TS]

  year ago and about how wireless earbuds [TS]

  and they mostly work the way i thought [TS]

  they would a glad that you know the pair [TS]

  with the phone sound comes out of them [TS]

  no real problems the taking of thing out [TS]

  of your ear to pause and putting it back [TS]

  in actually works for the most part [TS]

  exactly as advertised the construction [TS]

  of them looks good [TS]

  they sound more or less the same as i'm [TS]

  not picky about their butts I'm just [TS]

  letting the podcast or whatever as as [TS]

  the other pods hear the things that [TS]

  surprised me though what I I knew this [TS]

  is the thing that I did but this really [TS]

  hammered on how much should do it [TS]

  apparently i adjust the volume a lot [TS]

  require your butt in all sorts of [TS]

  circumstance [TS]

  why would i be adjusting the volume a [TS]

  lot when I'm making dinner alone in the [TS]

  kitchen by myself [TS]

  well because sometimes the little [TS]

  overhead fan is on and sometimes you run [TS]

  the garbage disposal and sometimes [TS]

  there's a pan sizzling and something you [TS]

  know apparently I'm just like I'm a [TS]

  climate micro adjust her you know my [TS]

  crowd time a micromanager in the car i [TS]

  am a volume micromanager with listening [TS]

  to podcasts [TS]

  I'm shocked that is huge and me as well [TS]

  i tried going with can I squeeze the [TS]

  little volume buttons with the thing in [TS]

  my pocket like in my jeans pocket of my [TS]

  jacket pocket as I'm walking before [TS]

  walking like in the parking garage as [TS]

  noisy as a car goes past with them and [TS]

  you get on the street is not as noisy [TS]

  but then the UPS truck [TS]

  but then the UPS truck [TS]

  driving passing again your podcast [TS]

  against you need closet or make it [TS]

  louder again taking the matter year is [TS]

  not an option when you have a big thick [TS]

  glove on anyway [TS]

  volume adjustment is it's a no go at but [TS]

  i think it would probably tolerate that [TS]

  I putting it would probably just put in [TS]

  a louder volume and just tolerate it and [TS]

  just there are trying to learn to it [TS]

  wasn't for the second thing which is I [TS]

  pause the podcast a surprising amount of [TS]

  time specifically when I'm in the [TS]

  kitchen cooking because my wife will [TS]

  come in and ask me something and go back [TS]

  out or I want to ask her something or my [TS]

  kids will come in and say something I [TS]

  pause and play and pause and play a huge [TS]

  amount taking out is not really an [TS]

  option because then i have to have some [TS]

  place to hold it and maybe my fingers [TS]

  are gross enough that you know like it [TS]

  too gross to be grabbing your butt just [TS]

  gross enough for me is just my pinky and [TS]

  my thumb depressed a little but I don't [TS]

  know but like you know taking it out [TS]

  just didn't feel I was afraid I was [TS]

  gonna drop it down the disposal or not [TS]

  keep track of where it is or then I had [TS]

  you know then I'm occupying one hand [TS]

  because I if I have to pause it to help [TS]

  do something else and often actually i [TS]

  will pause when I need to concentrate on [TS]

  the important part of the blue aprons [TS]

  recipe that I'm doing because i have to [TS]

  read the instructions i want to pay [TS]

  attention to the instructions and not be [TS]

  like gloss over the river so sometimes [TS]

  I'll pause when I'm alone in there just [TS]

  because I need to concentrate slightly [TS]

  more and i'm an active listener who [TS]

  wants to listen to what they're doing [TS]

  you have to pay that much attention [TS]

  season with salt and pepper Washington [TS]

  the first person I'm like well you see [TS]

  it's easy to miss the fact that they [TS]

  said only fry up a quarter of the [TS]

  noodles not all of them because the [TS]

  fried ones are just put on top and [TS]

  you're supposed to boil the up you know [TS]

  so now you find all the noodles and in [TS]

  the in the chicken soup [TS]

  I didn't but someone we both know did [TS]

  exact all instructions and pause during [TS]

  which there in that Parkin I'm just [TS]

  saying it's possible to Madeline [TS]

  goodness now anyway so I'm I'm pausing [TS]

  and resuming now what about the double [TS]

  tap [TS]

  here's the is the thing that surprised [TS]

  me I was like all right fine whatever [TS]

  had to pause the biologists do the [TS]

  double tap the double tap reliability [TS]

  wise i found like Marco that it's not a [TS]

  hundred percent reliable but I think you [TS]

  can live with that [TS]

  you know it's not a hundred percent [TS]

  reliable pinching the little thing about [TS]

  whatever i'll get by but i find it to be [TS]

  incredibly physically unpleasant yes to [TS]

  tap that things in my ear increase [TS]

  terribly unpleasant like shockingly like [TS]

  I didn't even occur to me to think about [TS]

  how pleasant but you know that you know [TS]

  how pleasant it is to get your buzz [TS]

  yanked out every year by the wires but [TS]

  never happen again with air buds [TS]

  it's like that but you're doing it to [TS]

  yourself you have to hit presently hard [TS]

  and if you have to do it four times [TS]

  instead of two like know if someone was [TS]

  doing this to me i would punch them but [TS]

  i'm thinking to myself I'm tapping think [TS]

  that the modulus is it is terrible and I [TS]

  just can't have sowed in the kitchen now [TS]

  I'm back to using my wired earbuds [TS]

  because pressing the little play pause [TS]

  button is way more pleasant and way [TS]

  faster and just you know and i also have [TS]

  volume control so the the air pods are [TS]

  banished from the kitchen for other [TS]

  environments if I'm going out for a walk [TS]

  or just you know anything that is like [TS]

  out and about in the world including [TS]

  mostly community you know walking [TS]

  through the parking garage and down and [TS]

  across the campus and up to like their [TS]

  pods I think mostly still good for that [TS]

  I was still using for that but for [TS]

  obviously for non-exercise or non-mobile [TS]

  things for in the house the wired [TS]

  earpods have been them out for me [TS]

  personally I'm not saying this is going [TS]

  to be for you because everybody everyone [TS]

  is different to say like as a review of [TS]

  the product and the product works as [TS]

  advertised and does exactly what [TS]

  everyone says it does you can read the [TS]

  reviews to see the feature set and so on [TS]

  and so forth that you know there's no [TS]

  volume control right but for me [TS]

  personally the wired ones went for the [TS]

  house so I got to tell you in my [TS]

  personal opinion I find love these [TS]

  things as it turns out listener of the [TS]

  show who lives in richmond Matt Wallin [TS]

  wrote me two nights ago there are two [TS]

  nights ago and said hey I bought two [TS]

  pairs one for my wife one for me and my [TS]

  wife said yeah I'll pass things do you [TS]

  want them and I said well yes yes I do [TS]

  and so I met Matt at a local starbucks [TS]

  sorry Marco and he was very nice and I [TS]

  and it happens is very nice guy and I [TS]

  gave him a very sketchy looking one of [TS]

  twenty dollar bills and he gave me a [TS]

  completely sealed air pots so i do have [TS]

  their pods as it turns out [TS]

  and i love these things there are [TS]

  problems for sure i personally have not [TS]

  run into the double tap thing because i [TS]

  find that I've never ever ever double [TS]

  tapping the air pod if I want to pause [TS]

  i'll just pull one of them out of my ear [TS]

  and I don't I haven't even thought to [TS]

  use Siri for anything the pairing [TS]

  process as you said was phenomenally [TS]

  easy [TS]

  I they showed up on my imac pretty much [TS]

  immediately although is a little wonky [TS]

  pair are getting them to to attach I [TS]

  don't want to say pair because they were [TS]

  prepared to the imac but getting them [TS]

  active on the imac and we'll come back [TS]

  to that in a second [TS]

  it took a reboot to get them to show up [TS]

  on my work computer but my work computer [TS]

  as odd firewalls and security [TS]

  restrictions and big business yada yada [TS]

  yada but after reboot that did work just [TS]

  fine i use them often on today at work I [TS]

  use them as much as i would use my [TS]

  traditional bluetooth headphones and at [TS]

  the end of the day I the earbuds the air [TS]

  pods were pretty much entirely charge [TS]

  because the handful of times that I [TS]

  would go and use the restroom or have a [TS]

  chat with somebody or or auto go [TS]

  downstairs to to nuke my my lunch i [TS]

  would put them back in the case and that [TS]

  would top them up in the case was down [TS]

  to about fifty two percent now I did [TS]

  leave work early today i left work at [TS]

  about one o'clock and so this isn't a [TS]

  perfect exemplar of a normal eight nine [TS]

  hour workday but having worked over half [TS]

  a day I the cases 52-percent and the [TS]

  earbuds were for basically completely [TS]

  charged i didn't have any grumbling or i [TS]

  didn't i didn't find it frustrating to [TS]

  not have any sort of playback controls [TS]

  because most of the day I spent that [TS]

  with them active on my work computer [TS]

  where I have my keyboard play pause and [TS]

  all that other stuff right there waiting [TS]

  for me [TS]

  the handful of other times i use them [TS]

  throughout the day they were attached to [TS]

  my iphone which was attached to me I can [TS]

  absolutely see how it could be annoying [TS]

  and John I totally understand what [TS]

  you're saying and and I can totally see [TS]

  why that would be frustrating that's not [TS]

  something that has bothered me yet [TS]

  Aaron every time she sees them season [TS]

  with them in my ears very casually and [TS]

  very politely reminds me how much for [TS]

  more on I am or in peace how much what a [TS]

  moron i look like which I think she's [TS]

  kind of right about that they do look a [TS]

  little goofy but i love these things the [TS]

  one complaint I have is that i haven't [TS]

  quite figured out the right dance in [TS]

  order to get them to to mate if you will [TS]

  that's probably not a good word for it [TS]

  either but whatever you like me with a [TS]

  desktop good with a with a laptop or [TS]

  desktop as opposed to the phone because [TS]

  the phone is pretty much always near me [TS]

  and even if the phone is off in the [TS]

  sense that it's it's it's not the the [TS]

  display is not on and it's just sitting [TS]

  there idly it seems like they really [TS]

  want to connect to the phone first which [TS]

  i think i understand but i'll start [TS]

  playing like a podcaster music or [TS]

  what-have-you on save my work laptop and [TS]

  that doesn't seem to be enough now maybe [TS]

  this is user error and I just haven't [TS]

  like broken the code on the right [TS]

  sequence of events to do but it wasn't [TS]

  until I went to the bluetooth menu item [TS]

  and then went to my ear pods and then [TS]

  said connect that they would wake up in [TS]

  and start to to connect to my work [TS]

  computer [TS]

  it was also very briefly discerning [TS]

  their dinner if it's just really weird [TS]

  thats thank you that's what i was [TS]

  looking for that I would hear audio out [TS]

  of the right here first consistently and [TS]

  then the left here now it was for a [TS]

  flash just barely enough for me to tell [TS]

  that there was a difference and then [TS]

  they never got out of sync after that [TS]

  but that was a little weird but all in [TS]

  all I love these things and the and i [TS]

  think a large part of the reason that i [TS]

  love these things is because it reminds [TS]

  me of the idealized apple that we all [TS]

  love and I think we're probably going to [TS]

  talk about the other kind of Apple that [TS]

  might be the apple of today here in a [TS]

  few minutes but the at the apple that [TS]

  ship these the apple today that ship [TS]

  these air pods is the Apple that I love [TS]

  the most and the one that is whimsical [TS]

  and has soul and has energy and has fun [TS]

  and god i love these things and just [TS]

  doing a little flip [TS]

  I don't know if that's you know through [TS]

  on the mic but oh god just doing that [TS]

  I'm gonna break this damn case from [TS]

  doing that constantly so satisfying it's [TS]

  so satisfying and then pick the magnets [TS]

  that kind of like suck the air pods into [TS]

  the case yes super satisfying so good i [TS]

  love these things i do think a hundred [TS]

  sixty dollars is pretty steep why I'm [TS]

  not saying it's not fair [TS]

  honestly 44 what you're getting in the [TS]

  competitive landscape of decent [TS]

  bluetooth earbuds especially separate [TS]

  ones because it like the level of [TS]

  complexity to make them not have a wire [TS]

  that goes between them is very like [TS]

  that's it that's a very cutting anything [TS]

  very few other things in the market can [TS]

  do that right now and and they all have [TS]

  massive challenges in making that happen [TS]

  and making it work well because the way [TS]

  bluetooth works basically but uh for [TS]

  what you're getting here [TS]

  I think they're actually well-priced [TS]

  they're like it's not like a [TS]

  bargain-basement like you know gonna [TS]

  blow the doors off with pricing only [TS]

  kind of thing but it is a it is a fair [TS]

  price for what you're getting [TS]

  yeah that's their ages it i'm not saying [TS]

  it's not a fair price is just a hundred [TS]

  sixty dollars is a lot of money for for [TS]

  what appears to be physically not that [TS]

  much now in reality you're exactly right [TS]

  that there's a lot there and in fact [TS]

  getting it so small is a big freaking [TS]

  deal but I love these things I am [TS]

  surprised how much alive and i knew i [TS]

  was going to like them but i really [TS]

  liked them a lot and there's a little [TS]

  you know there's a rough spot here and [TS]

  there like you guys are saying about [TS]

  double-tapping again maybe its user [TS]

  error but I haven't really gotten the [TS]

  sync between computer and phone working [TS]

  quite right but have like the the [TS]

  bluetooth headphones that i use a work [TS]

  which I've talked about incessantly for [TS]

  the entire run of the show their [TS]

  terrible headphones but they're there [TS]

  they work consistently however they were [TS]

  consistently in part because i only ever [TS]

  have them paired to one computer at a [TS]

  time right these air pods are paired to [TS]

  a work computer and I mac and iphone and [TS]

  ipad and don't blink an eye [TS]

  and i only had to really do the pairing [TS]

  once and that is freaking magic and for [TS]

  that [TS]

  that alone makes me super enthusiastic [TS]

  and and and i know that silly i [TS]

  recognize how silly that is but just [TS]

  having the flexibility to use these [TS]

  things with whatever I want basically no [TS]

  more difficult in an interview in a way [TS]

  that's no more difficult and unplugging [TS]

  replugging a que [TS]

  that's just awesome so I love him I [TS]

  really do [TS]

  yeah and there are other bluetooth [TS]

  headphones on the market that support [TS]

  being paired to multiple devices at the [TS]

  same time and having some way to to [TS]

  choose between them were to be [TS]

  simultaneously connected like that does [TS]

  exist in other headphones but none of [TS]

  them do it quite to this level they like [TS]

  they like to be it to have like this [TS]

  especially like the way they basically [TS]

  sink the pairing to all the other iCloud [TS]

  devices and like you know if you have an [TS]

  Apple watch it will just show up as as [TS]

  like an airplane output device like the [TS]

  same way an airplane Wi-Fi show up it [TS]

  shows up on your devices like that it's [TS]

  like if you have if you're sharing [TS]

  between as you like a laptop and and [TS]

  phone or phone and iPad or all the above [TS]

  like it it is way easier with the air [TS]

  pods then with anything else I've ever [TS]

  used from to have it on more than two [TS]

  devices [TS]

  yeah so two thumbs up I know I'm one [TS]

  person in that week [TS]

  did you see that feedback we got way [TS]

  back when that one person can say two [TS]

  thumbs up but anyway [TS]

  two thumbs up for me anyway everything [TS]

  so much i like them yeah there are any [TS]

  other thoughts on your pods from either [TS]

  of you two before we move on about the [TS]

  the hardware i was thinking about how [TS]

  you know how these things are so close [TS]

  to being just take the regular pausing [TS]

  cut off the wires and like if we had [TS]

  seen this exact thing in like a nineties [TS]

  sci-fi movie wouldn't like that so fake [TS]

  and ya know a thing like that [TS]

  absolutely we are like they've done such [TS]

  an incredible job of not having this [TS]

  look like a thing that plays audio plus [TS]

  a big blob that has the electronics in [TS]

  it right like it because it's an object [TS]

  that we've seen so often these white [TS]

  earpods that have been on the market for [TS]

  a long time just like a slightly sticker [TS]

  thicker skin it just appears to be magic [TS]

  that's part of our respond to like that [TS]

  is a magical a minute [TS]

  it's low level magick you know it's not [TS]

  it's not you know you know levitate a [TS]

  mountain magic but it is low level [TS]

  magick like we know it [TS]

  it is surprising that it works and you [TS]

  very quickly you get used to it but it's [TS]

  it's very impressive in terms of this [TS]

  this is the magic of design of like [TS]

  making a thing that looks boring and [TS]

  simple but then like if you look at the [TS]

  ifixit teardown and realize what they [TS]

  shoved in there [TS]

  and what it manages to do and just it's [TS]

  it's fairly incredible that even the [TS]

  basics work i think they made sacrifices [TS]

  to do that like by not having a wire you [TS]

  sacrifice the ability to have a little [TS]

  dongle by making them so small and [TS]

  perfect you sacrifice the ability to [TS]

  have like a little touch area we slide [TS]

  your finger up and down the volume [TS]

  control like it wouldn't be the same [TS]

  magic with that I still would like a [TS]

  little extra dongle that would maybe let [TS]

  me use these that I could you know play [TS]

  pause or whatever like a clip into my [TS]

  belt or something who knows what the [TS]

  hell i would do with it [TS]

  I'm and yes we've seen the ones that are [TS]

  on the market like that i wish more than [TS]

  had buttons that I could feel without [TS]

  looking instead of being a uniform [TS]

  circular whatever but anyway [TS]

  hardware-wise this is a pretty big home [TS]

  run I think other minor details a couple [TS]

  of the chatroom we're talking about my [TS]

  how I didn't like tapping in my ear [TS]

  doesn't matter where I tap it i tried [TS]

  every location you can tap the thing i [TS]

  tried tapping you know the stem part the [TS]

  end the middle the parts in my er [TS]

  tapping light-heavy tapping next to it [TS]

  not actually that like every combination [TS]

  that actually causes it to play pause or [TS]

  to activate or whatever i'm really [TS]

  changed the plans that didn't bother [TS]

  with a serious thing but yeah anyway at [TS]

  any location i find very unpleasant the [TS]

  other thing that my wife wanted out [TS]

  after you know for me giving these a [TS]

  trial run is that the signal that you [TS]

  send other people if they try to talk to [TS]

  you and you turned look at them and [TS]

  DoubleTap year is kind of like you're [TS]

  saying haha i'm listening to something [TS]

  here like as you point her here [TS]

  hello hello see the thing in my ear was [TS]

  exactly single you do not want to send [TS]

  good teams like you know because you do [TS]

  turn to face them and then you tell you [TS]

  DoubleTap you're like you're pointing to [TS]

  it especially if you have to do it four [TS]

  times you go one two three four it seems [TS]

  like you're saying you know you see the [TS]

  earpods don't try to talk to me which [TS]

  let me tell you doesn't go over big [TS]

  I'm just trying to play pause so I'm not [TS]

  quite sure I think obviously you're [TS]

  meant to just remove one from your ear [TS]

  which does the same which also causes it [TS]

  like that's obviously like the more [TS]

  common thing you're supposed to do right [TS]

  right yeah [TS]

  but I'd like that i'm removing is just a [TS]

  non-starter for me like an in that [TS]

  environment like is a even if only [TS]

  because that means i have to receive [TS]

  them and I'm i'm grabbing the thing with [TS]

  my grubby fingers again I mean become [TS]

  much better at tapping little thing one [TS]

  thing that a lot of us who just received [TS]

  our your pods notice the similar story [TS]

  of receiving them you know a couple days [TS]

  ago in the Northeast anyway it's very [TS]

  cold and you get the package at you know [TS]

  and you open up and you want to try [TS]

  mountain because they're so cold and [TS]

  have these tiny little batteries that [TS]

  are frozen and lithium-ion batteries do [TS]

  not do well when they're frozen [TS]

  I got them and it's like oh these things [TS]

  need to be charged like they're not you [TS]

  know I i opened up immediately and [TS]

  started to pair but then it was like you [TS]

  know low battery wherever I go you know [TS]

  I just gonna have the box maybe they [TS]

  don't have a charger to charge them so i [TS]

  want to plug them in the time it took me [TS]

  to take them over to the other room and [TS]

  find a lightning cable and plug it in [TS]

  like all of a sudden there were you know [TS]

  they appeared as on my phone was being [TS]

  with me was like oh they're almost [TS]

  already charged really was just the [TS]

  battery starting out like so if you do [TS]

  get it and it's cold and you're anxious [TS]

  to open the package like given five [TS]

  minutes to warm up like they usually do [TS]

  come with some amount of charge in them [TS]

  it's not as if they charge in five [TS]

  seconds they didn't they just thought [TS]

  out so chill when you're the reverse of [TS]

  she'll let them unchill when you getting [TS]

  more match finally I may be a factor for [TS]

  people who run in the cold this is what [TS]

  I'm thinking about like these are the [TS]

  exercise [TS]

  well our pods now if it's in your ears [TS]

  you're going to keep more of the bigger [TS]

  issue would be if you liked leave them [TS]

  in your car all day and your car's [TS]

  parked outside and you come back to your [TS]

  car and they have been there and they're [TS]

  frozen that's going to be the bigger [TS]

  issue [TS]

  yeah don't leave them in your car but i [TS]

  was thinking like for these it seems [TS]

  like they'd be ideal for exercise as [TS]

  well especially I know they're I don't [TS]

  want to go into things that are probably [TS]

  not public but anyway I would love to be [TS]

  able to play podcast from my watch [TS]

  locally on to my ear pods went out for [TS]

  like a run or something and not have my [TS]

  phone with me at all for a lightweight [TS]

  over way to do this without wires that [TS]

  is very appealing to me i'm looking [TS]

  forward to something like that the [TS]

  summer if possible [TS]

  what if it's possible we could talk i'm [TS]

  not entirely mr. possible i know and i [TS]

  don't want my on talk anyway you can you [TS]

  can talk about that later on the final [TS]

  thing is [TS]

  the case is awesome looking a little [TS]

  thing is awesome pulling the earpods out [TS]

  of the cases sometimes less than awesome [TS]

  because they are held in there by weak [TS]

  magnets but there's not really a good [TS]

  place for you to grab yeah that's been [TS]

  and guess what guess what year is on [TS]

  your pods eventually your wax mhm which [TS]

  can be kind of slippery if you're a [TS]

  greasy italian like me to make the [TS]

  earpods greasy and sometimes I'm trying [TS]

  to remove a greasy ear pod from a tiny [TS]

  little case and it's slippery and [TS]

  sometimes a little bit difficult to get [TS]

  them out as always say anyway yeah like [TS]

  I I in closing I agree with casey like [TS]

  this these are such a good product if [TS]

  this is apple at its best [TS]

  like this is the kind of thing that most [TS]

  people don't do as well as Apple it's [TS]

  them tackling an incredibly complicated [TS]

  problem both it's a it's a serious [TS]

  technology challenged any serious design [TS]

  challenge and i don't mean that in just [TS]

  the way it looks I mean a lot of design [TS]

  choices that go into it [TS]

  this is a serious challenge and Apple [TS]

  really did a really good job with it [TS]

  I wish they'd fit me they don't but for [TS]

  people who they fit you should really [TS]

  consider picking these up because [TS]

  they're really really quite good i don't [TS]

  fit thing by the way i'm trying to think [TS]

  about you know because there are people [TS]

  with interesting figures everyone's ears [TS]

  are different right [TS]

  that's not much you can do about it [TS]

  because Apple only sells one shape do [TS]

  you think it would [TS]

  would it help you do you think they sold [TS]

  them like three sizes like standard and [TS]

  like a smaller and a bigger or like I [TS]

  don't know if the problem is that there [TS]

  to bigger to smaller shaped wrong or [TS]

  whatever but like obviously apple that [TS]

  the whole big thing when it first came [TS]

  out with the earpods the wire was long [TS]

  time ago we measured a million years and [TS]

  they try to go for the you know the [TS]

  shape that will fit the most years and [TS]

  they probably did they would probably [TS]

  nailed this [TS]

  this is a shape that fits the most [TS]

  possible years with a single shape but [TS]

  with a single shape you're never gonna [TS]

  fit all the years i do you think they [TS]

  could eventually expand to have two or [TS]

  three different sizes and if they did [TS]

  you think that would help your fit [TS]

  because i don't know exactly what the [TS]

  problem is [TS]

  but I would imagine if it's falling out [TS]

  it's probably either you know too small [TS]

  so it's not gripping as the edges or too [TS]

  big that you can't really get a wedge in [TS]

  there right i mean i also don't know [TS]

  what the problem is but assuming that [TS]

  that would be a problem that they could [TS]

  address that way i don't think they [TS]

  would I I don't think it's it would be [TS]

  their style to sell earpods in three [TS]

  different sizes and so watching to his [TS]

  eyes especially because I think about [TS]

  like like you know when when somebody [TS]

  returns and your pod they cannot do [TS]

  anything with that like they can't [TS]

  resell it [TS]

  they can probably refurbish it if they [TS]

  can get all the crap out but they [TS]

  probably can't is probably not what [TS]

  they're gonna research guarantee when [TS]

  you put your 70 bucks I guarantee you're [TS]

  getting somebody else's your pot maybe [TS]

  but it's probably you know because it's [TS]

  been somebody's ear like there's like a [TS]

  lot of like issues anyway so like they [TS]

  have to totally refurbished that if they [TS]

  sold them in three different sizes they [TS]

  get so many more returns from people who [TS]

  they didn't fit and they think you know [TS]

  what this is the wrong size [TS]

  let me try this other sighs now and they [TS]

  get that you got it then and they know [TS]

  that turn that doesn't fit me either [TS]

  it's like that would be problematic also [TS]

  gonna have trials in the store they [TS]

  should have like little inert plugs that [TS]

  they like doused in alcohol between you [TS]

  know like you know me I'm gonna wipe [TS]

  down all that they wiped out all the [TS]

  stuff in the store and you haven't [TS]

  already [TS]

  they didn't know they do that for all [TS]

  the phones and everything like that [TS]

  there are all those German transference [TS]

  devices anyway and the for sure [TS]

  yeah they'd wipe them down with these [TS]

  disinfecting wipes like I don't know all [TS]

  day long and also witnessed yeah but [TS]

  like they're not going to like open [TS]

  little drawer under the table that [TS]

  you're not supposed to exist and put a [TS]

  tray of your plugs and be like here it's [TS]

  not like that's not know they were they [TS]

  would rather take the return hit but [TS]

  they like to try and watch us to see [TS]

  which size fits you they do have two [TS]

  different sizes of watch [TS]

  yes but that's not putting something [TS]

  inside of you yeah and you can see it [TS]

  and and more i think most of the time [TS]

  like you know you can just know by [TS]

  trying out for a second that that make [TS]

  it then they can reuse that wanted that [TS]

  you tried on but yeah it's like that's [TS]

  it that's very different [TS]

  the chatroom says they do air pod try on [TS]

  and they wipe them down [TS]

  really you already anyway so the other [TS]

  thing is like I don't really see today's [TS]

  apple [TS]

  as carrying a whole lot about edge cases [TS]

  and so anything that they consider an [TS]

  edge case it's they they kind of by [TS]

  their actions or lack thereof have been [TS]

  giving the middle finger to recently so [TS]

  I I can't imagine that that they would [TS]

  care because it really matters what [TS]

  percentage of the hit because again [TS]

  they're all things like we measure [TS]

  thousands of years and we tried to run [TS]

  one shape that would fit the largest [TS]

  number of them if that number is like [TS]

  ninety-five percent not they're never [TS]

  gonna do anything four percent but if [TS]

  it's seventy percent I think eventually [TS]

  they could be convinced that seventy [TS]

  percent is too low and so either change [TS]

  the shape of the one that we're selling [TS]

  to try to get 80 or 90 or if you can't [TS]

  then you know i'm sure they gather this [TS]

  information of like people buy these [TS]

  things and fill out a survey or [TS]

  complaints they do do that every time [TS]

  you buy something and it seems like [TS]

  every time I buy something I get one of [TS]

  the surveys and they ask you a very [TS]

  pointed questions about stuff like that [TS]

  if they ask anyone any questions about [TS]

  your pods or air pods guarantee one of [TS]

  the questions we do find that it falls [TS]

  out do you feel like it fits well as a [TS]

  comfortable like this is one of the [TS]

  pillar items of this product is they [TS]

  want to know you know when people put in [TS]

  their ears and doesn't do the job of you [TS]

  know playing music reliably and staying [TS]

  in their ears and doing was supposed to [TS]

  do and it seems like I seems to me [TS]

  anecdotally that I think they're already [TS]

  are getting a really high percent or so [TS]

  I think you're right that they're [TS]

  probably not ever gonna do anything [TS]

  about that but if if i'm wrong and there [TS]

  really a little low percentage i would [TS]

  say hi is like 80 or 90 and low as 70 or [TS]

  lower if i'm wrong and they are low [TS]

  I think they will do something to try to [TS]

  address that because seventy percent is [TS]

  not is not a hi-fi that I think they [TS]

  would like to sell products like this [TS]

  two more than seventy percent of their [TS]

  customers and granted they're likely to [TS]

  buy beats by whatever like it's you know [TS]

  its third-party ecosystem so on and so [TS]

  forth as long as its does bluetooth has [TS]

  a lightning connector haha it'll be fine [TS]

  but and also like one a product is [TS]

  really mature than and you have nothing [TS]

  left to do that's when you start [TS]

  diversifying so we'll give it a few [TS]

  years but i i i i think the first thing [TS]

  we would try it may be tweaking the [TS]

  design and they would say oh now the [TS]

  all-new air pods three years from now [TS]

  with a slightly different shape that we [TS]

  think it's more wider variety of years [TS]

  maybe not Marcus oh no don't ever fit my [TS]

  and you know I don't really hold against [TS]

  them in this particular case it going [TS]

  because what can you do [TS]

  yeah i mean i don't because I don't even [TS]

  know what the problem is you know so [TS]

  it's you know that's that's fine i I'm [TS]

  perfectly fine with other headphones i [TS]

  would be happy with their pods but I [TS]

  also do like having a lot of good [TS]

  controls on my headphones and my little [TS]

  more isolation sometimes so that's nice [TS]

  anyway i'm reviewing a bug shield you'll [TS]

  hear about them later just to avoid the [TS]

  feedback that will get I what do you [TS]

  make of this theory that these were [TS]

  originally supposed to charge me USBC [TS]

  based on the size and shape of the [TS]

  receptacle the Lightning receptacle and [TS]

  then at the last second they said no [TS]

  just kidding let's use lightning i [TS]

  personally don't really buy it i have [TS]

  plugged in official first-party cable [TS]

  into my ear pods case right now [TS]

  yes it does it does look ever so [TS]

  slightly bigger the receptacle does but [TS]

  and I don't have a USBC connector handy [TS]

  but I this this seems like a really weak [TS]

  argument to me what do you think John [TS]

  know that I don't buy that one [TS]

  mostly because if you remember we talked [TS]

  about the fat lightning connector that [TS]

  it didn't like plugging into the bottom [TS]

  of the iphone 7 that the larger one that [TS]

  has the chip and because as the back and [TS]

  everything like that if you plug that [TS]

  into the case which immediately makes no [TS]

  sense because it's a headphone right but [TS]

  if you plug that into the case it [TS]

  perfectly covers the opening like it [TS]

  looks perfect [TS]

  it looks exactly like it was made to [TS]

  plug in there right if you plug in one [TS]

  of the older ones or if you plug in the [TS]

  lightning cable that is hidden at the [TS]

  bottom of your box that you may not have [TS]

  found if you have air pods by the way [TS]

  look at the bottom of the box it comes [TS]

  with lightning cable for charging which [TS]

  as Marco points out has a USB a [TS]

  connector on the end courage [TS]

  yep that one does not cover the ends of [TS]

  the connector and you can see this [TS]

  little part speaking out and it looks [TS]

  weird you like what's the deal Johnny [TS]

  I've but I had like here's the memories [TS]

  and I don't think it was us bc but i [TS]

  think apple charges stuff with lightning [TS]

  connectors all of its iOS devices [TS]

  charged with lightening creams everybody [TS]

  who has apple crap has a bunch of [TS]

  lightning connectors to charge stuff [TS]

  what in the world would they make this [TS]

  one thing charged now with the Lightning [TS]

  connector so I think you know the only [TS]

  thing I could think of was like what [TS]

  does that mean that every lightning [TS]

  connector is going to be out these fat [TS]

  ones even if they don't have the [TS]

  dachshund chips in them like the boulder [TS]

  plan on charging cables we find hope not [TS]

  because I like the fat 1i liked the [TS]

  skinny ones so i don't really have a [TS]

  good explanation but I have a hard time [TS]

  thinking of any reason that this one [TS]

  particular peripheral would charge with [TS]

  USB see unless they're gonna go USBC [TS]

  everywhere it seems entirely unlikely [TS]

  because it's still bigger and so on and [TS]

  so forth but yeah but it is an [TS]

  interesting theory i would love to know [TS]

  the actual explanation and I guess if we [TS]

  wait a year and every single lightning [TS]

  cable now comes with the fat connector [TS]

  there's your explanation because it [TS]

  looks perfect on this thing [TS]

  Marco what do you think John cover it [TS]

  well basically like it yes there is this [TS]

  weird gap that is kind of an apple like [TS]

  to have this weird-looking mismatch it's [TS]

  extra weird that the cable that comes in [TS]

  the box doesn't fill the gap properly [TS]

  but I i also would think it would be [TS]

  very strange to have this charger USB [TS]

  see given the current lineup because all [TS]

  of their other accessories like that are [TS]

  that are this size and in this area and [TS]

  yeah alright yeah that's that's old that [TS]

  its own weird charging thing but like [TS]

  everything else charges by lightning [TS]

  that's like this in the Apple world so [TS]

  yeah I would be very surprised if it [TS]

  didn't and it would actually be I think [TS]

  less convenient for most people if it [TS]

  charged for us bc because if you are [TS]

  using these you're almost certainly [TS]

  using them with iphone and you are going [TS]

  to have little lightning cables all over [TS]

  your house or car or work or all of the [TS]

  above to charge your phone where you are [TS]

  hidden in the most you know in most [TS]

  cases so you're always going to have the [TS]

  ability to talk to charge something that [TS]

  charges by lightning [TS]

  if you if you own the air pods so it [TS]

  makes total sense to have these also [TS]

  charged by lightning and it would not [TS]

  make a lot of sense in real-world use [TS]

  for who's actually buying these and how [TS]

  they're actually using them to have to [TS]

  be USBC port we also sponsor this week [TS]

  by another new sponsor it is SQL pro [TS]

  this is a man [TS]

  a cap at SQL pro I'm so happy [TS]

  that they actually told me how to [TS]

  pronounce SQL because otherwise I [TS]

  would've had to guess i'd be very very [TS]

  worried that guess wrong anyway SQL pro [TS]

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  SQL pro SQL pro you can get [TS]

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  using the promo code ATP 20 once again [TS]

  SQL pro code eighty twenty [TS]

  twenty percent thank you very much to [TS]

  SQL pro for the mac for sponsoring our [TS]

  show [TS]

  alright I'm bracing myself for impact [TS]

  over the last couple of days but there's [TS]

  been a little bit of chatter about the [TS]

  state of the mac this started I at least [TS]

  as far as I'm aware by a back-and-forth [TS]

  Q&A some sort of thing that happened on [TS]

  some sort of internal Apple message [TS]

  board that of course got leaked and it [TS]

  has Tim Cook discussing the the future [TS]

  the mac and I don't have the exact quote [TS]

  in front of me but he says basically [TS]

  hate imac is great oh ok [TS]

  would you mind jumping then please yeah [TS]

  so the question from my guess an [TS]

  employee was with a big mac pro launched [TS]

  in october and powerful upgrade the [TS]

  macbook back in the spring our mac [TS]

  desktops strategic for us and so Tim [TS]

  Cook basically several summers little [TS]

  bit he says the desktop is very teaching [TS]

  for its unique there's no football that [TS]

  he says the current generation imac is [TS]

  the best desktop we've ever made and [TS]

  it's beautiful retina 5k display is the [TS]

  best desktop display in the world some [TS]

  folks in the media have raised the [TS]

  question of whether we're committed to [TS]

  desktops if there's any doubt about that [TS]

  with our team's let me be very clear we [TS]

  have great desktops in our roadmap [TS]

  nobody should worry about that so so [TS]

  this [TS]

  yeah i mean here's that was a very [TS]

  Trumpy an answer i have to say [TS]

  yeah well wasn't that bad let's be [TS]

  honest but it wasn't that much better [TS]

  here's the thing this was an opportunity [TS]

  that Tim Cook shows to take to reassure [TS]

  people who really care about Max and [TS]

  specifically mac desktops to to reassure [TS]

  them that Apple still has their needs [TS]

  covered and has any and plans to keep [TS]

  covering their needs and Tim basically [TS]

  gave information let's answer that [TS]

  committed to nothing that had even less [TS]

  hope than the last time somebody asking [TS]

  about this that resulted in 2013 mac pro [TS]

  where he said like we have something for [TS]

  our program is coming later next year [TS]

  whenever that was 2012 problem if he had [TS]

  anything positive to say about any mac [TS]

  desktop other than the imac I think he [TS]

  probably would have made a stronger [TS]

  implication about that or or would have [TS]

  used some different wording Tim Cook [TS]

  chooses his words very carefully he knew [TS]

  by writing this he knew that somebody [TS]

  would leak it so he was obviously [TS]

  writing it [TS]

  with that in mind because he's a smart [TS]

  person though these things work and [TS]

  again he chooses words very carefully if [TS]

  he had anything more reassuring to say [TS]

  about mac desktops he would have said it [TS]

  so the fact that he didn't is actually a [TS]

  little unsettling even even more [TS]

  unsettling that I think that if then if [TS]

  we didn't have this interaction with [TS]

  them that like if we had no information [TS]

  that would i be a little more confident [TS]

  with that then than what we have here [TS]

  which is basically him saying we have [TS]

  desktops covered with the imac like [TS]

  that's basically what he's saying here [TS]

  and I don't and look I'm I'm talking to [TS]

  you from an imac i have an imac right [TS]

  here i sold an underperforming older [TS]

  older generation processor mac pro to [TS]

  get this imac because the imac [TS]

  outperformed it but that's not a problem [TS]

  like that the problem there is not that [TS]

  mac pros are terrible it's that the [TS]

  macros we have right now are not [TS]

  competitive and are not a very good bye [TS]

  and are not keeping kept up-to-date the [TS]

  you know I i wrote months ago now like [TS]

  you know how why I care about the mac [TS]

  pro so much and why I think it needs to [TS]

  remain in the lineup and remain good and [TS]

  remain up-to-date none of those things [TS]

  have changed the mat the mac pro still [TS]

  does things that I max can't do not to [TS]

  mention apple also tells other bestop [TS]

  called Mac Mini which is even more [TS]

  neglected most of the time the matter [TS]

  which is saying a lot the last update to [TS]

  it was not only many years ago but made [TS]

  it worse so it's like you know that [TS]

  there are these two desktops that a lot [TS]

  of people use and in many cases depend [TS]

  on and apple is it would be Apple has a [TS]

  lot of customers who defend these [TS]

  machines who were who are basically [TS]

  begging them for some sign that their [TS]

  needs will continue to be covered in the [TS]

  future and apple is responding with most [TS]

  of the times silence and inaction and [TS]

  then this statement here is not only not [TS]

  better than silence but is actually [TS]

  worse think because the way you can read [TS]

  it very easily really does seem [TS]

  like the only desktop that Tim Cook [TS]

  thinks people need is the imac and and I [TS]

  I there are other ways to read it i'm [TS]

  not saying that the only way to read it [TS]

  but I think that's the implication here [TS]

  and I think it's pretty clear i have a [TS]

  different take on the marco and the [TS]

  terms of being unsettled by it because [TS]

  first of all high it could have been way [TS]

  worse [TS]

  I know that's you know damning with [TS]

  faint praise but I if he had been asked [TS]

  this question and it said I know [TS]

  desktops have been an important part of [TS]

  our business but really we really [TS]

  believe that the future is laptops only [TS]

  and our laptops actually now almost [TS]

  powerful that stops that we never update [TS]

  actually we think that having a laptop [TS]

  with the amazing Thunderbolt ports that [TS]

  can connect to these these wonderful LG [TS]

  display's that are totally not delayed [TS]

  and that we discounted like they could [TS]

  have given an answer that said actually [TS]

  the day of the desktop is done he didn't [TS]

  give that answer instead as vague as it [TS]

  was said we believe that was really [TS]

  boring blah blah we have great desktops [TS]

  coming blah blah [TS]

  he felt compelled to give an answer that [TS]

  is in the direction of attempting to [TS]

  reassure people that [TS]

  yes Apple still does care about the [TS]

  desktop despite recent not so recent [TS]

  events so and that doesn't change [TS]

  anything because that's where the [TS]

  direction i thought they were going in [TS]

  anyway the only information in this [TS]

  statement is for people who were afraid [TS]

  that Apple was going to cancel the imac [TS]

  this statement would reassure the people [TS]

  who are afraid that mammals going to [TS]

  cancel the imac it did nothing to [TS]

  reassure our people who were hoping that [TS]

  he would say go the mac pro the mac mini [TS]

  because he didn't and you know it's [TS]

  totally clear you know we think the [TS]

  desktop is important hey we've seen the [TS]

  imac because when we say desktop here at [TS]

  Apple basically mean i'm at this point [TS]

  it's really great that's not the best [TS]

  desktop we ever made look at that screen [TS]

  is great imac imac imac and then one big [TS]

  statement we have great desktops coming [TS]

  one of which is an imac with a better [TS]

  GPU right whatever like whatever you [TS]

  want to read into it it could be with [TS]

  great desktops come including an amazing [TS]

  new mac pro an amazing new mac mini or [TS]

  something you've never heard of and will [TS]

  cancel both the signs replace it who [TS]

  knows you could read anything you wanted [TS]

  to that statement so I [TS]

  like this entire exchange is a [TS]

  reaffirmation of the status quo that we [TS]

  on this show at least have have you know [TS]

  how to consensus on that basically the [TS]

  imac is a position of the desktop is the [TS]

  only thing they're updating its the one [TS]

  that we all think is the best one to buy [TS]

  because the other ones are so terrible [TS]

  and they reaffirmed that and only if you [TS]

  were afraid that they were going to go [TS]

  laptop only would you be reassured by [TS]

  this otherwise it's just you know [TS]

  business as usual [TS]

  yeah i don't know i don't have to feel [TS]

  good about the mac right now and and I I [TS]

  that is very painful for me I don't [TS]

  wanna get into it because we're already [TS]

  we're happy for the most part tonight so [TS]

  I want to say that way and talking with [TS]

  the mac makes me sad because it seems [TS]

  like I care about a lot more than apple [TS]

  does and that's scary [TS]

  also we should save since we have we [TS]

  have scheduling thing and we want to but [TS]

  we're going to have another we're going [TS]

  to record another show very soon after [TS]

  this one so i think i want to save the [TS]

  the German Mac malaise article hundred [TS]

  is called them and the shots here which [TS]

  may be very happy by the way that was [TS]

  very well done for the next episode but [TS]

  there is one thing on a slightly lighter [TS]

  note that I don't throw in on the team [TS]

  cooking all those actually more related [TS]

  to maximize someone wrote in his name [TS]

  I'm removing to protect the innocent a [TS]

  listener about the averaging about the [TS]

  idea of us complaining about the mac pro [TS]

  and everything and they were giving us [TS]

  information they thought we might not [TS]

  have and this person said wondered if [TS]

  you you'd mention that back in 2010 they [TS]

  took two years to make a minor silent [TS]

  update to the mac pro and then the day [TS]

  after the silent update Tim Cook has [TS]

  said you get a better update the [TS]

  following year but then it took 18 [TS]

  months to get this better update so I [TS]

  was taking its sweet time giving the [TS]

  update to the mac pro before just [TS]

  wondering if we we were aware of that [TS]

  and what he basically did in those two [TS]

  sentences is summarized the first year [TS]

  and a half to two years of ATP haven't [TS]

  listened to the show in the beginning [TS]

  our logo was the old cheese grater mac [TS]

  pro with a sarcastic new badge [TS]

  it that was about the silent update [TS]

  after WWDC keynote I get we updated the [TS]

  mac pro but it's such a minor update [TS]

  that is not even worth talking about and [TS]

  they're not really new and it's not a [TS]

  good update but we have more stuff [TS]

  coming and then we still have to wait a [TS]

  long time for it and then it was the the [TS]

  trashcan can innovate was it can [TS]

  innovate my ass or whatever it was [TS]

  supposed to be integrated anymore my ass [TS]

  and then an update for three years so [TS]

  yes dear new sweet listener [TS]

  we are indeed aware of this history of [TS]

  the mac pro and just kind of one of the [TS]

  foundational building blocks [TS]

  uh I don't know what you call it a it's [TS]

  really the one of the running themes of [TS]

  our show [TS]

  yes yes I'm trying to think of it it's [TS]

  one of the axes that we grind our main [TS]

  grinding axes it is the acts that we [TS]

  corrected there are these two out of [TS]

  three of us anyway and then and then we [TS]

  can we grinded and Casey rolls his eyes [TS]

  and minds and drinks that was only once [TS]

  thank you very much lately but [TS]

  nonetheless died i'm not as worked up [TS]

  about it is as you guys are for sure [TS]

  because I whether or not i would be [TS]

  better served by a mac pro which [TS]

  presumably I would i don't personally [TS]

  feel like I have a need for one [TS]

  and so because of that amount has worked [TS]

  up about it I am however worked up about [TS]

  the future of the mac in general it [TS]

  seems clear that the kind of Max that i [TS]

  would buy which is either macbook pro or [TS]

  5p imac I don't think those are going [TS]

  away anytime soon but i do think that [TS]

  there will come a time that these these [TS]

  machines are either going to be even [TS]

  more delighted and even more neglected [TS]

  than they are today or perhaps [TS]

  non-existent at all and I think that my [TS]

  canary in the coal mine to some degree [TS]

  is going to be what is it what windows [TS]

  Swift playgrounds become more than just [TS]

  playgrounds because the most obvious [TS]

  reason to keep the mac around is to make [TS]

  iOS apps and and if suddenly it's [TS]

  possible to do [TS]

  that on an iPad that makes things [TS]

  interesting and potentially very bad for [TS]

  someone like me who genuinely prefers [TS]

  the mac because if I have a choice to do [TS]

  anything other than like you know [TS]

  browse Twitter or whatever even even [TS]

  oftentimes ordering something on amazon [TS]

  if i have the choice I'd rather go to my [TS]

  5k imac or or perhaps my back pro them [TS]

  an ipad or anyone open up a lot of tabs [TS]

  right exact no truly yeah that's exactly [TS]

  what I know I was not being sarcastic [TS]

  and is slowly i'm showing you how you [TS]

  are going down the slippery slope [TS]

  towards me or rising up to Mount Olympus [TS]

  to be with me I is your this guy [TS]

  oh my haha oh Jesus I think my eyes just [TS]

  rolled right out your brother I'm [TS]

  dragging you down into hell or afternoon [TS]

  common i plead the fifth your honor [TS]

  anyway odd but the point being I I still [TS]

  very very deeply care about the mac i [TS]

  would like to think just as much as the [TS]

  two of you guys do the differences i [TS]

  don't personally need a mac pro in my [TS]

  life where I think that you guys do and [TS]

  and so I'm scared I'm scared about where [TS]

  this is all going but i'm not i don't [TS]

  think the sky is falling quite yet but [TS]

  it certainly looks like it's getting a [TS]

  little closer and that's scary [TS]

  I I fundamentally have a major problem [TS]

  with the perception that many people [TS]

  have not seen this to attack you Casey [TS]

  but if this is not just use as far from [TS]

  you [TS]

  many people seem to be under the [TS]

  impression that the main role that the [TS]

  mac serves as a as a legacy support [TS]

  platform for the creation of iOS apps [TS]

  and that is just complete and utter [TS]

  bullshit it is nowhere close to reality [TS]

  that being said that is not necessarily [TS]

  to say that apple doesn't think this or [TS]

  that some people inside of Apple don't [TS]

  think this I don't think everyone Apple [TS]

  thinks that but I do think that there is [TS]

  a strong risk that took might think that [TS]

  I don't know that for sure obviously I [TS]

  don't know Tim Cook we don't hang out [TS]

  but I do worry about that percent [TS]

  in that like a the assumption that the [TS]

  mac is a legacy platform that is on its [TS]

  way out that it is not the future and [TS]

  then be that its main reason for [TS]

  continued existence now is as an iOS app [TS]

  creation platform and then see that iOS [TS]

  will become a better app creation [TS]

  platform because i would actually argue [TS]

  that all three of those are wrong i have [TS]

  thoughts about this but before we do [TS]

  that why don't we go through last [TS]

  sponsor your sponsor tonight by kokhon [TS]

  go to cocom kokhon is a technical [TS]

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  designers and next year for Mark's 20 [TS]

  through 23rd kocontes returning to [TS]

  yosemite national park first 3070 event [TS]

  it is B it is held once again they've [TS]

  done this for three years now at the [TS]

  yosemite lodge at the Falls it is a [TS]

  beautiful location [TS]

  this is one of those things where like [TS]

  if you want an excuse to just be in a [TS]

  beautiful place [TS]

  this is a conference like your work will [TS]

  pay for this and this is a greatly you [TS]

  need to go to this conference if you're [TS]

  going to have work favorite conference [TS]

  you want it to be this one because my [TS]

  god what a beautiful venue they have [TS]

  their speakers this year also include [TS]

  actually Nelson Hornstein Brent Simmons [TS]

  daniel steinberg underscore David Smith [TS]

  Georgia doubt Jamie Newberry mad rants [TS]

  and Sebastian would do with these are [TS]

  all great people very smart top of their [TS]

  fields were excellent speaker I've [TS]

  actually seen most of them speak they [TS]

  are excellent people i highly recommend [TS]

  this lineup [TS]

  there's also guided hikes and a [TS]

  photowalk led by Ted photographer james [TS]

  duncan davidson also excellent and [TS]

  there's music by james Dempsey and the [TS]

  breakpoints and Jonathan man who sings [TS]

  the song a day and who sings our theme [TS]

  song [TS]

  I've also seen both the musical acts [TS]

  their excellent so basically i seen [TS]

  almost everyone is putting on this [TS]

  conference and this is an incredible [TS]

  lineup highly highly recommended and the [TS]

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  they have a Chicago event April 21st [TS]

  22nd use code ATP to say fifteen percent [TS]

  off tickets for those two events [TS]

  thank you very much coke on for [TS]

  sponsoring our show once again [TS]

  ah marka a second ago you had take me to [TS]

  task and fairly that you know it's kind [TS]

  of BS that that everyone looks at iOS [TS]

  apps is the only reason the mac exist [TS]

  and and I think that's that you're right [TS]

  to take issue with that if I'm if I'm [TS]

  allowed to spend a moment and expand my [TS]

  thoughts a little bit I I think the [TS]

  thing to me is if I try to put myself in [TS]

  apple shoes apple may not have an answer [TS]

  like the chat room is talking about [TS]

  having hundreds of gigabytes of photos [TS]

  that they'd like to process on their max [TS]

  okay that that's totally fair but Apple [TS]

  may not care about people who have [TS]

  hundreds of gigabytes of photos that [TS]

  they need to process they could just say [TS]

  you know what by damn pc i'm not saying [TS]

  that's factual I'm just saying it's a [TS]

  possibility and and the thing that Apple [TS]

  cannot get around there is no two ways [TS]

  around it is if they want their [TS]

  strongest most profitable platform to [TS]

  continue to exist which is iOS if they [TS]

  want that to continue to exist they need [TS]

  third-party developers and those [TS]

  developers intern need max they I don't [TS]

  think that Apple wants to telephoto [TS]

  professionals or video professionals or [TS]

  any other professional to go away but [TS]

  they could wear as they can't tell iOS [TS]

  developers to go away unless suddenly [TS]

  xcode is running on a pc which I guess [TS]

  weirder things have happened but that'd [TS]

  be really freaking weird and that's why [TS]

  i'm hanging my hat on this iOS app thing [TS]

  it's not because it's just because that [TS]

  that to me is the one thing that is [TS]

  non-negotiable and if that goes away if [TS]

  if suddenly you're capable of building [TS]

  an iOS app on an iPad which i think [TS]

  would be preposterous instruction [TS]

  frankly strikes me as a friggin terrible [TS]

  idea but who knows if that works well I [TS]

  think it's coming but I just don't think [TS]

  it would be particularly efficient at [TS]

  all [TS]

  for a lot of fun but that being said [TS]

  look at a what's the TravelSmith has [TS]

  been doing and you know there's there's [TS]

  an argument for it but anyway it if that [TS]

  becomes possible if you can submit to [TS]

  the appstore from an ipad then suddenly [TS]

  the app isn't non ago that the Mac isn't [TS]

  non-negotiable anymore and suddenly [TS]

  apples options that involve killing the [TS]

  mac and that that's what I'm saying does [TS]

  that make any more sense and I I [TS]

  understand why you say that I understand [TS]

  why a lot of people say that I [TS]

  understand why people think that [TS]

  developing full apps iOS is going to be [TS]

  a thing and I think it will be a thing [TS]

  for some people but i also think that [TS]

  I've heard that argument almost entirely [TS]

  from non-developers and there's a reason [TS]

  for that modern app development involves [TS]

  the integration of a lot of small tools [TS]

  everyone has a slightly different set of [TS]

  it is kind of in many ways you know it [TS]

  isn't just xcode you know there's lots [TS]

  of like if you support xcode over that's [TS]

  not enough that's enough for some [TS]

  absolute but not enough for like complex [TS]

  apps not enough for most good apps the [TS]

  the way developers work with the [TS]

  computer itself with the apps with the [TS]

  file system with the tools that the [TS]

  various tool chains all these different [TS]

  integrations and plugins and custom [TS]

  scripts and custom builds and every the [TS]

  way all the way developers work in [TS]

  practice professional real developers [TS]

  does not translate well to iOS software [TS]

  ecosystem or 2i to the OS itself right [TS]

  now the machines like the ipad is is [TS]

  powerful enough that you could like that [TS]

  it is a computer of sorts and you could [TS]

  the hardware could do this but the OS is [TS]

  completely wrong for most developers [TS]

  foremost development task and most [TS]

  development needs and this is true needs [TS]

  not like you know I need this chair to [TS]

  be purple like a need like know if I [TS]

  don't have this capability i can't do [TS]

  this or it would suffer so much that I [TS]

  would never want to do it that way the [TS]

  way software development happens in [TS]

  practice [TS]

  for that to move to iOS in a meaningful [TS]

  way would require so many changes to iOS [TS]

  that I think you're either unlikely to [TS]

  happen market wise or that apple would [TS]

  probably never do and probably shouldn't [TS]

  do to iOS because it would in many ways [TS]

  ruined a lot of what makes us great so [TS]

  like development of software I i always [TS]

  see as needing a more pc like operating [TS]

  system and whether that is the mac or [TS]

  windows or linux god I hope is still the [TS]

  mac and out of that list i think my [TS]

  second choice would be linux but I i [TS]

  really don't see professional software [TS]

  development moving to iOS not only for [TS]

  the next few years but possibly ever [TS]

  just because of the way iOS works the [TS]

  weight limited the whole way of iOS [TS]

  being like a collection of not like [TS]

  small apps that do one thing and not [TS]

  people scripts they wrote for the most [TS]

  part III know it's possible that's not [TS]

  the common case and there are main [TS]

  limitations there but iOS is the world [TS]

  of maximized full screen apps i know [TS]

  again not always but it is the world of [TS]

  like big complex after you do everything [TS]

  inside of this one app and xcode could [TS]

  be one of those apps but most developers [TS]

  who I know working in software [TS]

  development use way more than just xcode [TS]

  to get their job done and all integrates [TS]

  in these weird little custom ways and it [TS]

  every single thing like every developer [TS]

  has something in there that Apple excuse [TS]

  would call an edge case and each one is [TS]

  an edge case but everyone has at least [TS]

  one of those so you need in order to [TS]

  accommodate that style of use that style [TS]

  of tool chain and workflow you need [TS]

  something more like the pc operating [TS]

  system then like iOS in the way you can [TS]

  have tons of different tiny laps working [TS]

  together tons of Windows John tons of [TS]

  like in a different thing that integrate [TS]

  and plug-in and are all firewall often [TS]

  sandbox all from each other [TS]

  this is what developers need to work [TS]

  this is not negotiable this is the way [TS]

  things actually work in the real world [TS]

  for all developers I don't see how iOS [TS]

  get to that ever unless it basically [TS]

  gets ruined and becomes just like a [TS]

  weird being the implementation of mac OS [TS]

  which could happen but I don't think [TS]

  that should happen i don't think that [TS]

  will happen so on that particular point [TS]

  and when you said it before and youre [TS]

  just reiterate again the idea that uh [TS]

  this you're not gonna be doing [TS]

  developing an iOS unless unless iOS it [TS]

  you know on iOS as it currently exists [TS]

  unless I was changes in a way that [TS]

  allows you to do that because right now [TS]

  it doesn't have the facilities right [TS]

  the other option obviously and i think [TS]

  the one that Apple thus far has shown [TS]

  the most inclination to pursue is not to [TS]

  change iOS or disables for development [TS]

  but the change development so that it is [TS]

  able to be done eyeless and so if you [TS]

  look at playgrounds obviously that's no [TS]

  excuse right but the idea that what it [TS]

  takes to develop software could be [TS]

  change rather than changing iOS so that [TS]

  it can support what it currently takes [TS]

  to develop software change what it takes [TS]

  to develop software so that it fits into [TS]

  some semblance of the shape of iOS and I [TS]

  totally think making applications for [TS]

  iOS iOS is going to come if iOS itself [TS]

  exists long enough i would say within [TS]

  the next decade or two you're going to [TS]

  be able to make iOS applications and [TS]

  probably sooner for toy applications but [TS]

  for real full fledge applications i [TS]

  think it's coming and I don't think it [TS]

  will come from iOS changing to be more [TS]

  like the mac i think it will come from [TS]

  the process of developing software [TS]

  changing to fit into iOS and I don't [TS]

  think market will like it or anybody who [TS]

  has developed software and this current [TS]

  age because it will be different and [TS]

  more limited and crappier and a whole [TS]

  bunch of ways but I think that's coming [TS]

  now i don't i don't want to believe it [TS]

  is more because we do have another whole [TS]

  show to record tomorrow and I want to [TS]

  talk more about the the government Mac [TS]

  malaise story and and different angles [TS]

  and that but on the specific issue of [TS]

  development i would say that all the [TS]

  things i just said it's possible for [TS]

  ought to happen and the mac is still [TS]

  being going to [TS]

  but skc points out here i think mostly [TS]

  what Casey's point is this is a [TS]

  prerequisite if you ever want to ditch [TS]

  the Mac you gotta do something about [TS]

  developer socially and all the options [TS]

  are like well track them to pc and [TS]

  having to the development there or [TS]

  whatever or bringing into iOS and I [TS]

  think all those options always [TS]

  prerequisites ditching the mac are [TS]

  difficult to do like they'll take a long [TS]

  time it will certainly take a long time [TS]

  to try to it would take a long time to [TS]

  do a marco was suggesting like change [TS]

  iOS to basically ruined make it more [TS]

  like the mac not that I think Apple [TS]

  would do that but that would certainly [TS]

  take a long time it would take a long [TS]

  time to change software development so [TS]

  that fits and within I and iOS shape to [TS]

  make you be able to make serious apps [TS]

  that would take a hell of a long time [TS]

  and it would take a long time to boot [TS]

  people to be seen as though we're going [TS]

  to pour xcode to be see all those [TS]

  options would take a long time and most [TS]

  of them selling bad ideas and would [TS]

  actually be bad ideas for anybody who is [TS]

  currently developing top-tier iOS [TS]

  applications today so what does that [TS]

  mean about the future of the mag tune in [TS]

  next week / tomorrow live listeners [TS]

  cliffhanger ending that's so it's our [TS]

  style right and on that bombshell thanks [TS]

  for 23 sponsors this week we sell socks [TS]

  SQL pro studio and coke off and we will [TS]

  see you next week [TS]

  now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

  mean to begin because it was accidental [TS]

  it was accidental John research Marco [TS]

  and Casey wouldn't let him because it [TS]

  was accidentally was accidental [TS]

  you can find the show know today d p dot [TS]

  and if your twitter follow them [TS]

  yes byl ISS so that's Casey list and a [TS]

  co-pay rm20 Marco Arment and our AC at [TS]

  Syracuse [TS]

  so we have an extremely important bit of [TS]

  after-show follow-up that I've been [TS]

  really really excited to talk about for [TS]

  easily hours now Marco how's your [TS]

  snowblower i have used it and I'm pretty [TS]

  sure I know how to start it now [TS]

  alright and it turns out that wireless [TS]

  snow blowers are awesome [TS]

  what haha i forgot that you actually [TS]

  trying to use electrical i used my ears [TS]

  I think you guys got snow [TS]

  yeah we got we got me maybe like six [TS]

  inches and it was really wet and go [TS]

  ahead [TS]

  I knew that if I didn't clear it it [TS]

  would just turn into a block of ice [TS]

  which everyone else who hasn't cleared [TS]

  it has done exactly that so yeah it and [TS]

  and I had a I've had electric ones in [TS]

  the past and they they work ok but they [TS]

  tend to die after about two seasons [TS]

  maybe three if you're lucky and every [TS]

  electric snow clearing applied to have a [TS]

  powerful before they all have the same [TS]

  problem they all just work for a little [TS]

  while they be okay and they would die [TS]

  and having to drag around like a [TS]

  hundred-foot 15 an extension cord is as [TS]

  you go is is both limiting and annoying [TS]

  so I now finally have a wireless [TS]

  snowblower it is powered by old [TS]

  dinosaurs [TS]

  I know please don't tell me it's [TS]

  actually old plants I'm very aware and [TS]

  and is I i thought this is this is the [TS]

  first gas power to non car I've ever had [TS]

  like I've never had a gas powered lawn [TS]

  mower or anything like that it is i was [TS]

  worried that it would be a huge pain in [TS]

  the butt and maybe as it gets older it [TS]

  will be but right now as it's brand-new [TS]

  and I get fancy gasps from true fuel it [TS]

  is awesome and I it turns out it's just [TS]

  it's really heavy but that's about the [TS]

  only it's pretty loud too but those are [TS]

  the kind of the only downsides otherwise [TS]

  it's kind of amazing to not be tethered [TS]

  by [TS]

  cord I got to go I you know because i [TS]

  love i'm no longer tethered to my house [TS]

  by a hundred foot cord i got to do the [TS]

  entire sidewalk for the three houses [TS]

  adjacent to mine because they never do [TS]

  it themselves and it's always very hard [TS]

  to walk around here it's going to be [TS]

  like finally I can just clear this whole [TS]

  sidewalk myself dammit and it was [TS]

  everything I hoped it would be [TS]

  it was easier than I hoped it would it [TS]

  was easier than I expected less hassle [TS]

  than I expected and overall now I kind [TS]

  of see after mentally one use with no [TS]

  problems but now I kind of see why most [TS]

  of these appliances are gas-powered and [TS]

  yes I do know that wireless electric [TS]

  ones do exist but I've never been brave [TS]

  enough to try them because not only are [TS]

  they almost as expensive as the gas ones [TS]

  but i would expect that to not have as [TS]

  much power as the electric ones are as [TS]

  as the quarter ones do and the cord ones [TS]

  have even less power than the gas ones [TS]

  and so yeah that's no good i'm very [TS]

  proud of you [TS]

  we have the same amount of snow but I [TS]

  don't have a brand-new snow blower so I [TS]

  had no real [TS]

  had no real [TS]

  to use the snowblower we just shoveled [TS]

  it you also have a lot less square [TS]

  footage to shovel than i do I know but [TS]

  like about it at six inches or 8 inches [TS]

  even is not snow is not worthy of me [TS]

  getting out this number is my cell bar [TS]

  is is worse like like environmentally [TS]

  both environmentally as in for the [TS]

  environment but also environmentally as [TS]

  in the area around the snowblower [TS]

  because it's to cycle and it is old and [TS]

  is incredibly noisy and it makes [TS]

  everything smell and it's gross and so [TS]

  they're at their high barrier for me to [TS]

  take that thing out and that's great [TS]

  inches we actually shovel twice we [TS]

  shoveled once when it was a couple [TS]

  inches and once more when it was a [TS]

  couple more inches 16 inches and we shut [TS]

  down for a week it yeah okay because you [TS]

  guys don't have plows well we do but did [TS]

  certainly not to the extent that you [TS]

  guys I said flowers plural you have one [TS]

  plow haha this show where we didn't have [TS]

  a lot of clouds were not either like i [TS]

  don't understand what our plans are [TS]

  waiting for but the plows did not come [TS]

  by our house until for a long time and [TS]

  and we did I did that we always do our [TS]

  sidewalk is we're good [TS]

  suburban people and like you said demons [TS]

  are the Living marcos neighborhood or [TS]

  shovel their sidewalks but we have a lot [TS]

  of sidewalk to shovel and shovel the [TS]

  sidewalk twice to Marco did you take [TS]

  your test out and go hooting feel what [TS]

  actually hooligan who know their [TS]

  southern thing I think you know me I [TS]

  never sounds like a southern thing it's [TS]

  not a southern thing I was a college [TS]

  football thing [TS]

  no it's a problem is probably the what [TS]

  is that god-awful WRX forum North [TS]

  American subaru impreza owners club Nazi [TS]

  yolk or whatever is it a rally cars no [TS]

  that's just the act of being a hooning [TS]

  top definition on urban dictionary they [TS]

  are regularly well there you are driving [TS]

  recklessly racing doing burnouts etc [TS]

  I've never heard that my life hunting is [TS]

  Australian the chatroom says its [TS]

  Australian huh stream from beer made [TS]

  youngsters anyway I have you gone out [TS]

  driving like a moron apologies in your [TS]

  Tesla in the snow [TS]

  I know but by the time I got on the road [TS]

  it was all it was raining this no that's [TS]

  alright so speaking of cars the actual [TS]

  thing I really did want to talk about [TS]

  but i was i was hoping to bait and [TS]

  switch John with this there's been a new [TS]

  arrival in the circus [TS]

  really just today finally got your [TS]

  Ferrari right yeah [TS]

  look it's red in color it's the car [TS]

  we've been talking about for awhile i [TS]

  finally got my wife's car she finally [TS]

  replaced her old accord with a new [TS]

  record it was very difficult for us to [TS]

  get a stick shift sport accord sport [TS]

  special edition because apparently [TS]

  nobody in the entire world or at least [TS]

  an entire US wants to buy that car so [TS]

  they had to make it for us and then ship [TS]

  it out to us and now we've got it and [TS]

  it's nice and it is currently [TS]

  unscratched a nun dented and on acorn [TS]

  dented and had seven miles on it and [TS]

  it's got the new car smell and it's got [TS]

  seat heaters and we're all very happy [TS]

  congratulations that's awesome yeah and [TS]

  i think they might have added some [TS]

  options to the infotainment system which [TS]

  is still terrible but I saw a couple [TS]

  like I found the option to remove [TS]

  pandora which I never used so it's not [TS]

  on the source list anymore so I gotta [TS]

  check my car to see if that option was [TS]

  always there and I just missed it [TS]

  well I couple other nice things there [TS]

  and and fine and you can one of the few [TS]

  options the infotainment system has you [TS]

  can change like the color scheme for it [TS]

  and that's a red color scheme and we're [TS]

  going to keep it because it matches the [TS]

  car that's that's adorable and i gotta [TS]

  say looks great really aggressive wheels [TS]

  which we covered on [TS]

  I don't know if we never even made it in [TS]

  the post version of the show but we did [TS]

  talk about it on the show at one point [TS]

  or another looked really really good i'm [TS]

  the wheels particularly i really liked [TS]

  and it's a sharp-looking car so the what [TS]

  what year was the one that you just [TS]

  replaced 2006 may be okay and this is a [TS]

  20-17 yeah we keep our cars for about 10 [TS]

  years for the most part that is 10 years [TS]

  in my word i didn't even put that [TS]

  together it didn't seem I did 6006 [TS]

  doesn't seem like that long ago to me [TS]

  but yeah you're right wow yeah and those [TS]

  aggressive wheels by the way those [TS]

  aren't as aggressive as they look they [TS]

  look like Marcos and five wheels but [TS]

  they're not marketing files with 15 [TS]

  wheels were like five spoken to the [TS]

  smoke through these two little skinny [TS]

  things and you know so these look like [TS]

  that but only because they have it's a [TS]

  it's you know it's it's our wheel and [TS]

  everything it's all its you know but [TS]

  then they're big openings you can see [TS]

  the the brake discs in the caliper and [TS]

  stuff like that but it doesn't have [TS]

  these little skinny spokes what it has [TS]

  big thick spokes most of which are [TS]

  painted black [TS]

  leaving the shiny silver parts that look [TS]

  like Marcos wheels did so it is cheaper [TS]

  than you think it is but it's still [TS]

  pretty cool [TS]

  yeah it's cheating but it's fine I'm is [TS]

  your wife happy and that's really the [TS]

  only thing about yeah so far enough [TS]

  where the kids at all enthused with a [TS]

  completely what did not care about it [TS]

  don't think they care of my daughter to [TS]

  be contrary because that's who she is [TS]

  said she likes that car better than my [TS]

  car but honestly I don't [TS]

  she couldn't actually believe that yeah [TS]

  I don't know what I mean that from her [TS]

  perspective in the backseat like they're [TS]

  practically identical I mean like good [TS]

  there i think only a corporation would [TS]

  notice a difference between these two i [TS]

  mean i can tell that the different model [TS]

  years but it's the same generation of [TS]

  card its brand-new it's read it has cool [TS]

  wheels [TS]

  I'm not well that they don't care about [TS]

  the words believe me they don't care [TS]

  about the wheels on the leather seats i [TS]

  tried to point out of this country no [TS]

  seats are leather and the different i [TS]

  think they notice their different i [TS]

  don't know if they if they said which [TS]

  one is this is the leather one of the [TS]

  novel i don't think they know what [TS]

  letter is I don't know but anyway they [TS]

  seem to be fine with it [TS]

  so you had sent us a picture of you know [TS]

  the the outgoing car you sent two [TS]

  pictures of the new car and then you'd [TS]

  also sent a picture of the stick shift [TS]

  which made me deeply deeply happy I was [TS]

  very enthused to see that however i [TS]

  noticed that this is one of the I think [TS]

  pretty much standard configurations [TS]

  where reverse is down into the right so [TS]

  away from the driver and laterally and [TS]

  toward the driver vertically that is so [TS]

  ancient looking to me because my legacy [TS]

  my Subaru had that same arrangement [TS]

  although it was a five-speed but now [TS]

  I've been ruined in the in the good way [TS]

  i guess by going in toward me and [TS]

  forward which I actually really like as [TS]

  having reverse all the way to the left [TS]

  and end up which is the german way of [TS]

  doing things I believe Volkswagens do it [TS]

  this way i can't speak for audi [TS]

  obviously BMWs do it this way [TS]

  mercedes hasn't built a car with a stick [TS]

  shift and fifty years so who knows [TS]

  but and in any case I i really prefer it [TS]

  there and it was like a flash from the [TS]

  past the past to see it back into the [TS]

  right is weird i think i would like [TS]

  reversing up in position to describe [TS]

  think probably actually makes a little [TS]

  bit more sense they're the only thing [TS]

  back into the right has going for it is [TS]

  that feels reversi like you're pushing [TS]

  yeah that's true but other than that [TS]

  like I mean it i think the strongest [TS]

  argument for being next to first is I [TS]

  mean especially the age before lockout [TS]

  switch everything has now if you're if [TS]

  you're reaching for reverse your car [TS]

  stopped and the only time you're [TS]

  reaching for first is also when your car [TS]

  stopped so the two gears you read for [TS]

  when your car stopped right next to each [TS]

  other whereas if you're reaching for 16 [TS]

  and get reversed which I will leave [TS]

  campus as a lockout but if you were [TS]

  there was no lockout that would be very [TS]

  bad and the days before lockouts that [TS]

  would actually be bad so I i can see the [TS]

  argument for being up there but I'm [TS]

  hondas are all like that part where its [TS]

  back and you just kind of get used to [TS]

  going back and then you're going to go [TS]

  first forward and I mean whatever he is [TS]

  what you used it [TS]

  that's totally what you used to but I [TS]

  quite liked having the two things that [TS]

  are most likely to do from a stop be [TS]

  close to each other that but I is I mean [TS]

  but then again you can also confuse them [TS]

  so there's an argument either way but I [TS]

  know I congratulations to your lovely [TS]

  wife this is very exciting i'm glad she [TS]