The Incomparable

267: I Read It All


  the incontrovertible number 267 October [TS]

  welcome back everybody to the [TS]

  incomparable i'm your host Jason L we [TS]

  are reconvening our book club this [TS]

  episode we're going to be talking about [TS]

  two books one by paolo bacigalupi it's [TS]

  called the water knife and another final [TS]

  Stephenson which is called seven Eve's [TS]

  these are authors we've talked about [TS]

  before in previous episodes you can look [TS]

  at poor in the show notes perhaps if i'm [TS]

  not too lazy to talk about these two [TS]

  novels of the of a science-fiction [TS]

  nature i have four human beings who are [TS]

  not robots that we know Lisa Schmeisser [TS]

  not a robot hi Lisa [TS]

  hi how are you I'm doing fine and I'm [TS]

  doing fine [TS]

  David jail or probably not a mandroid [TS]

  possibly possibly that's awesome [TS]

  serenity Caldwell good dad good to hear [TS]

  your voice your human voice yes I am NOT [TS]

  a robot more than I don't believe you [TS]

  and the the most of all of the creatures [TS]

  I've met in my travels his is the most [TS]

  human it is Scott McNulty hello hello [TS]

  thanks i got your Star Trek reference in [TS]

  there i hope you can appreciate that [TS]

  yes I was gonna do the robot voice but [TS]

  then rendered it and I was like well I [TS]

  don't need to do it now it's always [TS]

  being left both of these books are about [TS]

  robots nope they're not at all not even [TS]

  a little [TS]

  they're not even there are a lot of [TS]

  robot 30 well there are main room bar or [TS]

  not they're not like sent you not think [TS]

  yeah then I me Ryan Lee Johnston [TS]

  syracuse would probably say that they're [TS]

  not robots that is a different podcast [TS]

  all right we should start with the water [TS]

  knife i think i would like to start [TS]

  there and then and then we will whatever [TS]

  time we have left will be devoted to the [TS]

  eighty thousand pages of the latest you [TS]

  know steve is a novel is certain is that [TS]

  first third so the water knife is a is a [TS]

  shorter book than 70 use i'm told that [TS]

  the hard lately is about 370 pages long [TS]

  I right yeah Kendall Paul bacigalupi [TS]

  we've talked about him before he wrote [TS]

  the windup girl which I thought was [TS]

  really excellent he wrote a couple of [TS]

  really good albeit depressing why a [TS]

  novel that we talked about Scott and I [TS]

  think maybe we talked about those we did [TS]

  the agency together on an episode and [TS]

  now I had I had to miss an episode that [TS]

  was traveling I was so bummed [TS]

  yeah so should bring her in the ground [TS]

  cities both III really highly recommend [TS]

  ship breaker and and John cities is just [TS]

  more depressing but also good just [TS]

  depressing very good so yeah so I'm as [TS]

  somebody who is a resident of california [TS]

  i can tell you especially the water [TS]

  knife for portrays a future in which the [TS]

  desert southwest of the United States is [TS]

  a horribly short on water water has [TS]

  become incredibly valuable and [TS]

  essentially the US government has [TS]

  abdicated a lot of their [TS]

  responsibilities over the border [TS]

  disputes between the various powers in [TS]

  the region that there is a there there [TS]

  you know there still is a US government [TS]

  and all of that but they're kind of not [TS]

  going to get involved in nevada and [TS]

  california and arizona and and other [TS]

  parts of the Southwest squabbling over [TS]

  who gets the water rights and who has [TS]

  water and who is going with and what [TS]

  cities are going to essentially shut [TS]

  down and crumble into dust because they [TS]

  don't have enough water and that is the [TS]

  that is the the backdrop for the water [TS]

  knife power but you're loopy is notable [TS]

  for writing about about econ ecology and [TS]

  Atmospheric stuff and and climate change [TS]

  and stuff like that it's a UH the the [TS]

  what-is-it the windup girl takes place [TS]

  in a in a mostly drowned Southeast Asia [TS]

  with some dykes and stuff and it's a [TS]

  similar kind of situation in the in [TS]

  those two why a book set in a in a kind [TS]

  of post sealevel rise dystopia this is a [TS]

  different world [TS]

  it's not about sea level rise here but [TS]

  it is still about climate change i've [TS]

  heard people refer to this as Clive I [TS]

  which I do not like do not [TS]

  let's let's never say that again i just [TS]

  i'm putting it out there and then we're [TS]

  going to be to death and it will never [TS]

  escape so and I assume this backdrop is [TS]

  a story about a guy who is working for [TS]

  the head of the water agency in Las [TS]

  Vegas he is the titular water knife [TS]

  he's basically a thug an assassin in the [TS]

  employ of the water agency and then [TS]

  there's also a plucky reporter named [TS]

  Lucy Monroe who who has sort of [TS]

  accidentally found herself in phoenix as [TS]

  its in its death throes and and then [TS]

  they they may meet along with uh refugee [TS]

  from Texas because Texas is basically [TS]

  following entirely apart [TS]

  Maria and and they fight crime know that [TS]

  doesn't happen but this is the this is [TS]

  this is your story it is the water knife [TS]

  it's all about the terrible things that [TS]

  happen in phoenix arizona AZ it's [TS]

  basically falling apart because it has [TS]

  no water that's my summary of the water [TS]

  knife what people think of this one [TS]

  Lisa you're a resident of California [TS]

  yeah I don't know if this happened for [TS]

  anybody else but the first time you got [TS]

  up to wash your hands get a drink of [TS]

  water while reading after reading this [TS]

  book did you think to yourself my god [TS]

  what a miracle that we can just turn on [TS]

  the tap and the water comes out I should [TS]

  have a bowl under the under my want [TS]

  Molly wash my hands and then use that to [TS]

  water this plant which is what we do [TS]

  actually being a cat a fellow [TS]

  Californian we all the again as jason [TS]

  has said we're both in California it's [TS]

  suffering a huge you know once and 500 [TS]

  every years type of drought and so in my [TS]

  house we already do the thing where we [TS]

  use every bit of water we have and and [TS]

  I've got a great water system now for [TS]

  watering the plants blah blah blah but [TS]

  what I when I read this I kept thinking [TS]

  well we should send copies of this to [TS]

  you know people and people are utilities [TS]

  and policymakers because one of the [TS]

  things i thought one thing that was [TS]

  phenomenal because i read this [TS]

  back-to-back with seven Eve's and [TS]

  there's a part in seven teams where the [TS]

  neil degrasse tyson character who will [TS]

  get to later [TS]

  is all well you know one thing is a [TS]

  tragedy but when entire planet goes [TS]

  kablooey you just you can't you can't [TS]

  get a your you can't wrap your brain on [TS]

  the scope and [TS]

  in this case like them the genius of the [TS]

  water knife is the closer look because [TS]

  you do have Maria who's this teenager [TS]

  refugee from California eventually from [TS]

  Texas who over the course the entire [TS]

  novel she typifies what happens to [TS]

  people who become refugees and are in [TS]

  and are driven to rely on themselves far [TS]

  before they have to and what I really [TS]

  loved about the book was the way it [TS]

  shows how Lucy gets too close to the [TS]

  story and in doing so becomes utterly [TS]

  unable to understand and see what would [TS]

  drive somebody like Maria because they [TS]

  have a climactic confrontation the very [TS]

  end I loved on Hell's quasi Redemption [TS]

  arc and the reason is a quasi Redemption [TS]

  arc is because he's going to hop in a [TS]

  helicopter and go back to Catherine case [TS]

  who's the the headwater agency in Las [TS]

  Vegas yeah i mean of the queen of las [TS]

  vegas NV yeah I mean she was briefly [TS]

  trying to kill him when she thought he [TS]

  was betraying her but like now that [TS]

  they've worked out that understanding [TS]

  he's gonna talk he's going to toss Maria [TS]

  and this helicopter and the last thing [TS]

  he says to her in the book is Catherine [TS]

  cases going to love you and I felt like [TS]

  that book was saying right there okay [TS]

  she's gonna be a water knife interesting [TS]

  to be great at it because she's looking [TS]

  at the world in a way that almost nobody [TS]

  else can she doesn't remember a priest [TS]

  shortage time and that kinda reminds me [TS]

  of the Emily st. John mandals station [TS]

  eleven when they're talking about the [TS]

  before and the after and one of the [TS]

  observations that one of the characters [TS]

  makes is if you were a child you really [TS]

  don't remember what if you were a child [TS]

  in the world you know depopulated you [TS]

  really don't remember electricity or [TS]

  medicine or anything like that so you [TS]

  don't miss it too much and Maria's case [TS]

  she's very young she really doesn't [TS]

  remember life before like she has these [TS]

  big impressions of all the stuff that [TS]

  she no longer has but she's like no this [TS]

  is the world and she talks a lot about [TS]

  old eyes looking at the world and old [TS]

  eyes where this is the way the world [TS]

  used to be we can get back to versus [TS]

  looking at the world as it is now and [TS]

  what i thought was the same thing i [TS]

  thought at the end of the drowned cities [TS]

  which was you know the drowsies explain [TS]

  how people become child soldiers in [TS]

  effect these are the circumstances that [TS]

  lead to this is what happens this is the [TS]

  human cost of the way the world is today [TS]

  and you know this book is the same thing [TS]

  whether water and it was saying this is [TS]

  the this is the human cost of the kind [TS]

  of consumption patterns we have going on [TS]

  this is what are you guys going to pay [TS]

  this so i thought it was an intensely [TS]

  moral intensely gripping read i [TS]

  highlighted a buttload of passages [TS]

  because he's got a vivid and economical [TS]

  way of describing the complete collapse [TS]

  of civilization [TS]

  no one of my favorite one of my favorite [TS]

  phrases was the odd mix of broken Souls [TS]

  bleeding hearts and predators who [TS]

  occupied the shattered places of the [TS]

  world and that that one sentence is just [TS]

  so elegant and so economical and says so [TS]

  much and it's just the pros in this book [TS]

  is excellent in addition to the story [TS]

  and i really love and appreciate when [TS]

  you can find something where the story [TS]

  and the method of delivery are both [TS]

  beautiful i'm going to go next to our [TS]

  native a native Californian I believe a [TS]

  serenity what do you think of this one [TS]

  gosh at this book made me think a lot I [TS]

  in well it's funny because this book [TS]

  came at a time where I i was talking [TS]

  with my boyfriend at the time were like [TS]

  well do we want to live in the northeast [TS]

  forever and maybe I want to move club [TS]

  back closer to my parents and we were [TS]

  talking like maybe austin and then [TS]

  really nice i'm like yes work of fiction [TS]

  but there's definitely there's a lot in [TS]

  this book to make you think because it's [TS]

  not it's not necessarily yes this is [TS]

  happening tomorrow but it's definitely [TS]

  this is a version of a future that could [TS]

  potentially happen and yes water rates [TS]

  are thing which is something that I [TS]

  didn't actually realize until after the [TS]

  book i went kind of diggin being like is [TS]

  this actually yeah he says just the book [TS]

  for me again I i love all of how do you [TS]

  see that his lesson about you loopy [TS]

  bacigalupi i love all of Paolo [TS]

  Bacigalupi stuff I think so you must not [TS]

  have read the doubt factor even haha no [TS]

  sorry [TS]

  I the jacket factory the data factory [TS]

  was clearly turned out quickly and it's [TS]

  not bad book but I I feel like somebody [TS]

  whispered in his ear this sort of book [TS]

  could sell well yeah we talked about [TS]

  that I want to come out and I like [TS]

  everything else he's done [TS]

  yes I alright so I'm yeah i love i love [TS]

  his climate change-related science [TS]

  fiction and i'm going to use the long [TS]

  version of that because the short [TS]

  acronym is terrible [TS]

  I really Lisa in that I his prose is [TS]

  chilling but i know in a way that it [TS]

  doesn't make you feel completely [TS]

  discouraged about the the fate of the [TS]

  world or the potential fate of the world [TS]

  but it definitely it gets in your brain [TS]

  and you think about these things long [TS]

  after you've closed the book i mean i [TS]

  read that but I read it it's a [TS]

  page-turner you know I I probably run it [TS]

  straight through and 48 hours maybe less [TS]

  but it yet but the certain phrases and [TS]

  imagery stuck with me a long time after [TS]

  the the hyenas the oh yeah oh my gosh [TS]

  yes oh the all of the all of the games [TS]

  just it's such a well it's such a [TS]

  well-built version of apocalypse because [TS]

  it doesn't because it's so close to our [TS]

  reality that it doesn't feel so removed [TS]

  that we can't identify with it and so [TS]

  you can it's it's it's just it's like [TS]

  turning the knob just one setting over [TS]

  so you look at everything and you're [TS]

  like yeah I recognize I recognize this [TS]

  but without necessarily being too close [TS]

  to home or too far away from home that [TS]

  you become desensitized I there's a no [TS]

  no it's it's a very special balance that [TS]

  he's that he's kind of struck and I i [TS]

  really enjoy you know the the plus side [TS]

  I and i love the world-building i love [TS]

  the stuff we get about the ecology is in [TS]

  the essentially the living buildings and [TS]

  how those sort of come into play in the [TS]

  story [TS]

  anybody who's played simcity will [TS]

  recognize arcologies from if you baby [TS]

  simcity 2000 if you built if you last [TS]

  long enough they launched into space [TS]

  oh yeah [TS]

  you know that that was something that [TS]

  was that start percolating through [TS]

  architecture movements back in the [TS]

  sixties and seven days self-contained [TS]

  yes there's actually a structure in the [TS]

  southwest call dark asante which was [TS]

  meant to be a self-contained ecosystem [TS]

  the idea was that good architecture [TS]

  combined with ecology could create these [TS]

  oasis in the desert and Marcus aunties [TS]

  an experiment that's been going on the [TS]

  southwestern sometime [TS]

  David you live near a river but I'm [TS]

  gonna have to well you're not about the [TS]

  water knife [TS]

  well i was gonna say all of the you know [TS]

  thinking about the water being a miracle [TS]

  as it comes out of these little faucets [TS]

  all over my house I I thought of that [TS]

  the last time i went to california and [TS]

  when [TS]

  oh this is what it's like out here and [TS]

  I've been much more conscious let's and [TS]

  taking home even though quote-unquote I [TS]

  don't have to be and so reading this was [TS]

  yeah i mean i'll go along and say that i [TS]

  have also liked everything he's written [TS]

  i like the doubt factory for what it is [TS]

  it's not high heart this is high art [TS]

  this is I'm not usually a big fan of [TS]

  message fiction and and you know you [TS]

  know let's let's [TS]

  except for Star Trek i guess but one [TS]

  thing i love about his work is that it [TS]

  does stick with me and it's just a [TS]

  really really well written and [TS]

  well-plotted story every time out [TS]

  it's a mystery said I mean I think the [TS]

  one of the things that even in Star Trek [TS]

  you could say is that you need to have a [TS]

  good story a good plot that goes along [TS]

  with your message and a day that could [TS]

  you could say that was the sugar coating [TS]

  sometimes what what bacigalupi is doing [TS]

  here is you know he's telling he's [TS]

  telling a an action adventure story in [TS]

  this world where he which allows him to [TS]

  tell us about it let's imagine a [TS]

  Southwest with these crippling water [TS]

  deficiencies and what the politics would [TS]

  be in what the social ramifications [TS]

  would be that's but you know then I'm [TS]

  going to tell a story about this guy and [TS]

  and these two women and what happens [TS]

  with them and [TS]

  and there's you know and there's action [TS]

  there is and there's adventure and [TS]

  there's excitement and there's some [TS]

  crazy sci-fi kind of things in there but [TS]

  you know but that's it's you know it is [TS]

  i think well done in the sense that that [TS]

  the the I the message isn't it is the [TS]

  plot but it isn't the plot it's more [TS]

  than that if it was just a message was [TS]

  just discreet about the environment I [TS]

  think it wouldn't be that it wouldn't be [TS]

  as successful as it is not to tip my [TS]

  hand for later but i really i really [TS]

  like the the clothes look I don't I [TS]

  don't necessarily like the let's see the [TS]

  entire you know everything that's going [TS]

  on everywhere all over the world hard [TS]

  hard to get a lot of perspective when [TS]

  you're looking at it from that viewpoint [TS]

  and and you don't need it and this this [TS]

  is proof that you don't need all of that [TS]

  to have an effective story and to end to [TS]

  get your points across to get the [TS]

  message that you're trying to sell you [TS]

  can you can just do it really nicely [TS]

  covered entities in Philadelphia he's [TS]

  just pouring buckets of water onto the [TS]

  street for fun doing that right now like [TS]

  about other is set up and i just turned [TS]

  on the faucet and throw it out the [TS]

  window [TS]

  yeah this book has reaffirmed that i [TS]

  should stay on the east coast because [TS]

  you have plentiful water is usually rain [TS]

  in oregon right that there's only in [TS]

  fact the scene where they call vancouver [TS]

  and they're like its winning [TS]

  what is that yes that being said its own [TS]

  problems an earthquake land you have [TS]

  some ministers maybe we also don't have [TS]

  earthquakes over here at the East Coast [TS]

  generally of course we'll have one and [TS]

  then everyone will die but yeah but to [TS]

  philly sports fans i'm really not sure [TS]

  that's a true that hurricane hurricane [TS]

  only missed you by a little bit so we do [TS]

  have her needs we sometimes have too [TS]

  much water that is very game learn to [TS]

  not mess with us also Eagles fans I feel [TS]

  like we can't again about that danger [TS]

  index Friedman so so Scott what do you [TS]

  think of the water i liked it i read it [TS]

  very quickly so that's always a good [TS]

  sign [TS]

  yeah I enjoyed the fact that it was [TS]

  shorter than 70 you soon [TS]

  american press that you although it's [TS]

  not surprising considering both authors [TS]

  I liked all talking about comparing and [TS]

  contrasting i like how real the water [TS]

  knife felt and plausible and how there [TS]

  was so many striking scenes of [TS]

  completely different people experiencing [TS]

  the same kind of a horrific ecological [TS]

  breakdown in so many like the people who [TS]

  live in these arcologies it doesn't [TS]

  matter because they have a fountain and [TS]

  a river and everything's lovely inside [TS]

  their little self-contained world but [TS]

  then you go outside and there are people [TS]

  lining up at a public spigot that they [TS]

  have to pay you no money to get their [TS]

  water and the prices fluctuate based on [TS]

  the market [TS]

  yeah there's a scene where now [TS]

  malfunctions in advance oh it over Vince [TS]

  water and like one of the characters [TS]

  feels like she struck it rich because [TS]

  she's going to be able to resell this [TS]

  water for right Marshall fingers out [TS]

  that because it's based on the market so [TS]

  there's at 1.22 yeah i was down there is [TS]

  nothing [TS]

  and so you can quickly she fills up a [TS]

  lots of jugs and of course in in this [TS]

  book that is a great boon for her but [TS]

  immediately it turns into a horrible [TS]

  thing because nobody could be happy [TS]

  well have you ever seen the wire it's [TS]

  pretty much like watching the kids and [TS]

  season four of the white attempt [TS]

  together terrible situation I mean yeah [TS]

  it'sit's uh yeah it was Ursa know that [TS]

  that what I enjoyed is I really liked [TS]

  what he did to Lucy over the course of [TS]

  the book that's our our reporter yeah [TS]

  loosies reporter character and there's a [TS]

  character who appears very briefly and [TS]

  kick starts things off where he tells [TS]

  Lucy that her problem is she thinks too [TS]

  small and at the end of the book when [TS]

  she gets what is essentially the maltese [TS]

  falcon of the book the thing everybody [TS]

  has been looking for i think everybody [TS]

  has been pulling to kill him to die for [TS]

  and she gets it she's like with this [TS]

  Phoenix can you know control its own [TS]

  destiny and like she's all I'm going to [TS]

  make sure that Felix isn't hired by this [TS]

  and she says this in front of somebody [TS]

  who has lost parts of her body her [TS]

  parent and her best friend to the way [TS]

  Phoenix is now and I thought oh my god [TS]

  Lucy you really do like anything it's [TS]

  not Lucy thinking small in that case she [TS]

  was thinking too big that she missed the [TS]

  key details which is that [TS]

  there are probably people in Phoenix who [TS]

  don't want it to succeed who wants [TS]

  desperately to get out of there and will [TS]

  do anything to get up there in Lucy lost [TS]

  sight of that she was she was chasing [TS]

  after the power structures and she kind [TS]

  of it was ok to document the desperation [TS]

  but I don't think she really realized [TS]

  the lengths people would go to to avoid [TS]

  prolonging the pain you mentioned the [TS]

  MacGuffin here and I it may seem [TS]

  ridiculous to people that essentially [TS]

  what they're talking about and this [TS]

  thing that everybody's fighting and [TS]

  dying over is a document about water [TS]

  rights from 100 a long time ago and like [TS]

  who had the first water rights to [TS]

  various watersheds and rivers and that [TS]

  may seem ridiculous like will really [TS]

  when you've got all these states and [TS]

  their national guards and they're [TS]

  fighting each other and they're blowing [TS]

  up pumping stations and things like that [TS]

  what is some quaint old document going [TS]

  to mean except if you look at the [TS]

  headlines of the mandatory water cuts in [TS]

  California right now they're actually [TS]

  the age of the water claims is the [TS]

  determining factor in whether your farms [TS]

  get water or not so this is absolutely [TS]

  real as ridiculous as it sounds I think [TS]

  it is that ridiculous and yet it is also [TS]

  accurate so I thought that was a nice [TS]

  touch there that as fact there have been [TS]

  reporters who have been documenting the [TS]

  Colorado for like the last 15 to 20 [TS]

  years and taking a look at who has [TS]

  claims where because this is a very real [TS]

  thing if you were to cut off the kelp [TS]

  that Colorado's water supply [TS]

  well above Arizona Utah and Nevada they [TS]

  be host and so right now who can draw [TS]

  water from calif from the Colorado is a [TS]

  really from political process and when [TS]

  Arizona starting large-scale spinach [TS]

  farming they actually tapped into the [TS]

  Colorado to do that and that's about the [TS]

  whole political flurry it's a Mike Davis [TS]

  wrote a book called city of course which [TS]

  is about Los Angeles and how you know it [TS]

  the reason it grew is because they stole [TS]

  of water rights which you know you can [TS]

  learn more about actually much chinatown [TS]

  and they talk about how water is life or [TS]

  death to the American Southwest and [TS]

  there are a lot of people who have a lot [TS]

  at stake in making sure that it flows in [TS]

  ways that are deeply unnatural for the [TS]

  region [TS]

  and I I I loved in this book how he had [TS]

  clearly done his homework on how the [TS]

  battles are fought you know [TS]

  bit by bit with ranchers and farmers and [TS]

  and where the money flows and how it get [TS]

  started it's just such a whole research [TS]

  book also we talking about um about this [TS]

  being an apocalyptic it is in a way but [TS]

  if this is a small apocalypse in the [TS]

  sense that it's an apocalypse of a [TS]

  region and in fact one of the things [TS]

  that he goes to some pains to show is [TS]

  that this is a world of haves and [TS]

  have-nots and people in the United [TS]

  States miss something I think power [TS]

  budget hope he does a lot and does very [TS]

  well is is a make you understand how [TS]

  people in other parts of the world and [TS]

  other situations feel by turning the [TS]

  tables on on Americans and display and [TS]

  showing them in that position because [TS]

  you have that this is what you know this [TS]

  is what they go [TS]

  imagine what it would be like if you did [TS]

  this exactly so in this case what we see [TS]

  is not only do we see the rain in [TS]

  Vancouver and we hear about you know [TS]

  things within back east and all that but [TS]

  lurking the whole time and we very [TS]

  rarely see any instance of it other than [TS]

  like people referencing it is the [TS]

  monster in the room which is California [TS]

  and the implication a California will [TS]

  always get what it wants its got the [TS]

  people it's got the power it will suck [TS]

  you dry if it wants to and everybody in [TS]

  this story is scrambling around the [TS]

  edges trying not to anger California and [TS]

  trying to get enough to survive without [TS]

  drawing you know California's I and i [TS]

  found that fascinating to that this [TS]

  isn't this isn't a you know a story [TS]

  about the The you know how California [TS]

  steals everybody's water when there's a [TS]

  drought this is a story of all the [TS]

  people whose water got stolen but and [TS]

  how they survive which i think is a [TS]

  really nice touch the California is like [TS]

  this super scary like the Soviet Union [TS]

  and in a spy story in said in the cold [TS]

  war where it's like it's just it's out [TS]

  there [TS]

  Hallie's are ya they are you you know [TS]

  the calories are gonna come and then [TS]

  it's all the jig is up man it's over [TS]

  then I think that's a fascinating little [TS]

  touch too and it's funny brought up [TS]

  China tent is the first thing I wanted [TS]

  to do as soon as they finish was gonna [TS]

  watch chinatown [TS]

  because it's been you know 15 years [TS]

  since i saw it 20 years since i thought [TS]

  i was thinking because you talk about [TS]

  you Jason you alluded to the gap between [TS]

  the rich and the poor and one of the [TS]

  things i like about the way mr. B i'm [TS]

  just going to one of the things i like [TS]

  when mr. B rights is he makes it [TS]

  abundantly clear that the technology and [TS]

  the g was advances like the arcologies [TS]

  have all been developed and designed in [TS]

  the service of the from of the elite [TS]

  economy and it reminds me a lot of the [TS]

  stuff that you seen william gibson novel [TS]

  except here there's more of an angry [TS]

  activists heart whereas and william [TS]

  gibson novels like he can go off for a [TS]

  paragraph about somebody's [TS]

  super-fantastic flannel shirt and the [TS]

  fountain pen they're using and then it's [TS]

  like a woman doing jujitsu but here [TS]

  instead it's a little eyes fetishized [TS]

  and it's definitely more comment on the [TS]

  wealth is a lot less fetishize and you [TS]

  are aware of the human cost you know [TS]

  especially when you've got these these [TS]

  these dudes who are supposed to be [TS]

  looking for aquifers not finding LOL [TS]

  hookers on the company tab and and and [TS]

  working that way so it's I like his [TS]

  books because i like the angry beating [TS]

  heart of them will they feel real [TS]

  yeah they don't they don't feel like [TS]

  again they don't feel like some fantasy [TS]

  world where we're so far removed it's [TS]

  like oh that's nice post boxes like Mad [TS]

  Max feels like a fantasy world [TS]

  yeah it's just like it's so far removed [TS]

  from reality that you're like all right [TS]

  this is most part how would how would we [TS]

  get to that point where it's very clear [TS]

  how we get to this point so it did [TS]

  everybody had everybody read the [TS]

  tamarisk unter which is one of his short [TS]

  stories and pump 6i have yeah I cannot [TS]

  oh yeah that's a good coat on that's a [TS]

  good choice for collection pump six is [TS]

  an excellent pump six and other stories [TS]

  is an excellent collection all all [TS]

  ecosystem and climate change-related I [TS]

  believe but that the tamarisk countries [TS]

  i believe the short story that kind of [TS]

  spurred this this book into action which [TS]

  follows basically a a so-called tamarisk [TS]

  hunter who basically goes down the [TS]

  Colorado striking down tamarisk weeds [TS]

  that are sucking the water dried and and [TS]

  his interactions [TS]

  and his his view or how he sees people [TS]

  basically being policed on the wall on [TS]

  the Colorado and that that in itself was [TS]

  such an interesting snapshot of what [TS]

  potential life and then I forget a year [TS]

  or two later in the LA Times there was [TS]

  something very very similarly mentioning [TS]

  you know tamarisks sucking down Colorado [TS]

  etc and it was just I don't know I feel [TS]

  like he has such a good he has such a [TS]

  good eye tap on the sort of the beating [TS]

  heart of like what what is vital in [TS]

  certain areas and the like the ability [TS]

  to just draw out what might be most [TS]

  negatively interesting without not [TS]

  necessarily saying like this is the [TS]

  future [TS]

  everything is doomed but if this is the [TS]

  worst way that this future could go [TS]

  let's dive in deep and look at these [TS]

  three people and explode their lives [TS]

  basically let's make all of the bad [TS]

  things happen and see how humanity [TS]

  reacts which is fascinating so i will [TS]

  say I another way that this book reminds [TS]

  me of william gibson is that after i [TS]

  read it i thought i really love the [TS]

  world and i really loved the writing and [TS]

  as for the plot it is not anything [TS]

  special like to me I felt like like [TS]

  Gibson and I love Gibson but Gibson's [TS]

  plots are pulp crying plots mostly and [TS]

  this you know [TS]

  yes such they stopped a little better [TS]

  something that's exactly and and I want [TS]

  and what about with budget loopy I've [TS]

  never really felt that way before but [TS]

  with this book I felt that way I felt [TS]

  like the setting was so rich but like in [TS]

  the windup girl the setting is is rich [TS]

  but it's also bizarre and in and drowned [TS]

  cities i think is setting is as rich and [TS]

  it's also super weird [TS]

  in some ways water knife I felt like the [TS]

  setting was good and then the plot is [TS]

  kind of it is a MacGuffin plot it is a [TS]

  thug you know and some mysterious like [TS]

  people get assassinated and there's a [TS]

  the reporter who's on the trail and [TS]

  there's the the the poor refugee who's [TS]

  put in these terrible situations and [TS]

  it's not bad [TS]

  but they did I just wanted to say it [TS]

  that struck me and I think that's the [TS]

  reason that I didn't like it as much as [TS]

  some of his other work is not because of [TS]

  all the things we've been talking about [TS]

  that because I felt like the story [TS]

  itself when I got done with it was like [TS]

  that part of it yeah you know it's not [TS]

  like I've seen that story that's like a [TS]

  you know it came off of the plot machine [TS]

  I almost like it that what I like I [TS]

  almost enjoy the fact that it is [TS]

  basically an archetypal story [TS]

  I'm shoved into these extraordinary [TS]

  circumstances because it a little for me [TS]

  at least what I really enjoyed about the [TS]

  water knife worthy the small moments in [TS]

  there and the the very real humanization [TS]

  of these characters whereas the their [TS]

  overall arcs may have been fairly [TS]

  predictable but the brief it like the [TS]

  individual scenes in the way that these [TS]

  characters interacted were very very [TS]

  interesting on I don't yeah I it is the [TS]

  less about the little moments for me in [TS]

  this book which I i'm gonna bet you're [TS]

  you're you're totally valid and that yes [TS]

  it's much more of an archetypal story [TS]

  than his other works [TS]

  yeah I mean to me it's sort of like that [TS]

  lets you focus on the message and the [TS]

  character moments and it's the same [TS]

  thing with Chinatown where he wanted to [TS]

  tell the story about the water rights [TS]

  and he came up with this home the war [TS]

  storyline to fit into and so that was [TS]

  sort of the spoonful of sugar for [TS]

  everyone to get the story of the water [TS]

  right thing and I think that I think [TS]

  that was I almost want to say it's a [TS]

  very intentional thing here I'd I think [TS]

  that might have been in his brain going [TS]

  hey you know I could take that and put [TS]

  it into a science-fiction setting with [TS]

  these thriller element but he actually [TS]

  calls it out [TS]

  he calls it out because they talk about [TS]

  all the stuff that Lucy reported on and [TS]

  got pills for and they point out that [TS]

  her most her most dogged and tenacious [TS]

  reporting that puts all this together [TS]

  was released trafficked work but that's [TS]

  not like they make that comment like he [TS]

  makes that commentary on the state [TS]

  journalism with what gets eyeballs [TS]

  versus what gets what should get [TS]

  attention when when they talk about the [TS]

  most respectable and the best work that [TS]

  Lucy did was was unraveling who was [TS]

  responsible for drawing out phoenix and [TS]

  nobody saw those stories so it's like [TS]

  the subtext is text at least one chapter [TS]

  there's one other thing i want to [TS]

  mention here which is just a funny thing [TS]

  that happened a week or two ago Elon [TS]

  Musk [TS]

  made the the comment about how if [TS]

  there's an apocalypse of some sort [TS]

  there's no place you want to be other [TS]

  than a test love because in the test lab [TS]

  there's like super air filters and stuff [TS]

  like that and that made me laugh because [TS]

  because there is a there are several [TS]

  chapters here where we're on how the [TS]

  last guys is a is driving around in a [TS]

  Tesla and he's got the he goes through a [TS]

  dust storm and he's got the filters on [TS]

  and all of that and you know that I [TS]

  think it's a nice touch because it it [TS]

  says it says futuristic while also [TS]

  saying not that far in the future [TS]

  because it's a test lights recognizable [TS]

  and that's kind of funny but then Elon [TS]

  Musk comes out and says basically yup [TS]

  you wanna you know if there's something [TS]

  bad in the air just getting your test [TS]

  lights really good for that we just like [TS]

  again great i don't have one of those [TS]

  are your audience Ilan consider your own [TS]

  yeah yeah [TS]

  Scott you have anything more to say you [TS]

  can you been characteristically quiet [TS]

  well I don't want to disappoint my fans [TS]

  by actually talking as though made as [TS]

  quiet as possible [TS]

  well I thought the the book was fairly [TS]

  straightforward i enjoyed it i didn't [TS]

  think it was high arch as David said but [TS]

  I thought it was a fine novel I wouldn't [TS]

  read it again because I don't read [TS]

  things but uh huh i certainly would read [TS]

  another book by paolo bacigalupi but [TS]

  apparently not the depth factor don't do [TS]

  that one [TS]

  no I i would say it's kind of in between [TS]

  being the it's not a polemic and it it's [TS]

  not like super high art either it's [TS]

  summer it's it it's in between it is it [TS]

  is it's got a message and it's got a fun [TS]

  story and weld them together fairly well [TS]

  I didn't react to it like I did when I [TS]

  read the windup girl which was wow this [TS]

  is amazing i'm going to vote for this [TS]

  for the hugo award for best novel which [TS]

  I did and it tied for that so it won [TS]

  thanks to me I pointed this out [TS]

  Paolo Bacigalupi give me a call my votes [TS]

  that made the difference anyway if you [TS]

  had to reread only one Paolo Bacigalupi [TS]

  book i think the window grill is the [TS]

  clear choice unless you're a teenager in [TS]

  which case it is a ship breaker [TS]

  yeah yeah yeahs less depressing in the [TS]

  drowned cities [TS]

  yeah yeah but you know it comes first [TS]

  chronologically in that [TS]

  your thoughts here are anything more [TS]

  about the water knife before we move on [TS]

  to seven Eve's everybody should get all [TS]

  right it [TS]

  yeah it's fun it's hard it's hard not to [TS]

  think about Syrian refugees and he said [TS]

  way but yeah it is well set your again [TS]

  this is the business the thing in [TS]

  drowned cities that he does that he does [TS]

  again here is there is nothing that [TS]

  makes a stronger point for the plight of [TS]

  other people in the world who are in [TS]

  terrible situations then reading a story [TS]

  where you are the people who are in that [TS]

  situation he does that very well and [TS]

  it's very last thing the crisis yeah [TS]

  alright so we'll move on to seven Eve's [TS]

  final Stephenson similar symbols of 800 [TS]

  minutes long and internet to the length [TS]

  of this seven Eve's is longer in then [TS]

  the water knife in that it's 880 pages [TS]

  long which for Neal Stephenson is a [TS]

  moderately long book it's in novella [TS]

  yeah that's as with many long neal [TS]

  stephenson books there's a really great [TS]

  400-page novel in here that is correct [TS]

  so hard Dave day 3 one's Dave once joked [TS]

  about tom clancy that that it was [TS]

  basically like you know 400 pages of [TS]

  submarine porn and you know 50 pages of [TS]

  actual of actual story and i have to [TS]

  admit that a lot of this book felt that [TS]

  way to be too when I thought well if [TS]

  I've ever trapped aboard a space station [TS]

  and I need to learn how to dhaka module [TS]

  in such a way so as I don't below set of [TS]

  orbit [TS]

  i am now fully equipped to do so it's [TS]

  really be like that space station that [TS]

  way so i agree with you and we'll come [TS]

  back to that but first i will at least [TS]

  say what the seventies is seven Eve's is [TS]

  a novel in which a mysterious agent that [TS]

  is never really describe blows up the [TS]

  moon and the moon slowly is coming apart [TS]

  and they and scientists realized that [TS]

  this isn't just like it's a bummer i [TS]

  like the moon it was it was pretty in [TS]

  the sky that the man at the moment [TS]

  debris is going to fall at similar to [TS]

  other apocalypse books that we've read [TS]

  perhaps the last policeman is down there [TS]

  while this is all going on in a year to [TS]

  basically it's going to be what's called [TS]

  the white sky which is when all the [TS]

  debris is going to basically re-enter or [TS]

  interests orbit and [TS]

  and the earth is gonna catch on fire and [TS]

  it's going to be uninhabitable for [TS]

  hundreds of years and I it's the story [TS]

  of the people on the International Space [TS]

  Station and its successor modules and [TS]

  how they try to figure out how to [TS]

  survive and keep the human race alive [TS]

  even when the earth is going to be [TS]

  boiled and that is the premise of 70 [TS]

  years it spends most of its time in in [TS]

  outer space [TS]

  however and we'll get to this there is [TS]

  that there is a a a point at which the [TS]

  book shifts and then I I've described [TS]

  this to several people as being a [TS]

  trilogy in one book because it's kind of [TS]

  like that there's kind of the what [TS]

  happens before humanity is boiled [TS]

  there's the we're working in space after [TS]

  the earth has boiled in order to try to [TS]

  keep everything together and then [TS]

  there's the third part which again will [TS]

  get to so that 70 was it is widescreen [TS]

  there's a lot going on and to lisa's [TS]

  point2 just come to that [TS]

  yes Neal Stephenson is a very good [TS]

  writer and he's very good at making his [TS]

  digressions interesting which every time [TS]

  he would get me and I'd be like five [TS]

  pages and be like damn it Neal [TS]

  Stephenson you made this interesting how [TS]

  did you do that because this has nothing [TS]

  to do with anything [TS]

  and why am I reading this you're just [TS]

  showing your work but well here's the [TS]

  thing but then in this book and I i I'd [TS]

  say more than in other books of his [TS]

  there were times where I felt like he [TS]

  was literally just putting things in [TS]

  because he had done the work and those [TS]

  were painful [TS]

  where was like you know I mean you know [TS]

  either he did himself or he hired [TS]

  somebody to do the or orbital mechanics [TS]

  or to come up with the how the rocket [TS]

  needs to fire in order to go in this [TS]

  orbit out of the Lagrange point we've [TS]

  got a lot about Lagrange points and get [TS]

  to the comment that we're going to bring [TS]

  back and all of that and that was you [TS]

  know those are the bad kind of [TS]

  digressions I can support you know [TS]

  what's really funny to me is that I [TS]

  actually found the digressions in this [TS]

  book far less annoying than readii his [TS]

  previous novel of although i think what [TS]

  I honest [TS]

  well do you fuck do you find orbital [TS]

  orbital mechanics more interesting than [TS]

  the mechanics of guns [TS]

  yeah with like I'm going to say that my [TS]

  image garden space probably biases b2b [TS]

  like i don't i know nothing about [TS]

  orbital mechanics and i do not have the [TS]

  math to make have orbital mechanics [TS]

  makes sense but the digressions although [TS]

  again towards third part got a little [TS]

  crazy in the first two parts i actually [TS]

  didn't mind it because it was very much [TS]

  like yeah I want to know how we're gonna [TS]

  solve this problem this impossible [TS]

  problem that is impossible to solve [TS]

  yeah I want to know about the crazy [TS]

  lottery process for sending people up [TS]

  from every country and going to visit [TS]

  some obscure i forget what I think Asian [TS]

  country that they go and visit is it [TS]

  bhutan yeah baton sorry I'm when you [TS]

  know they're picking the visual [TS]

  distributes for the Hunger Games I mean [TS]

  yeah but rain [TS]

  yeah volunteer yeah but no I'm engine [TS]

  you this is two very good halves and [TS]

  then a third part i wait [TS]

  oh very good have so that I liked her [TS]

  better [TS]

  look man again well she had an accident [TS]

  so book axis 4.0 the trillions what [TS]

  you're saying there's two weeks the [TS]

  trilogy seriously I don't see it as a [TS]

  trilogy I see it as one really long book [TS]

  and then a weird epilogue that just goes [TS]

  on a weird a novel way [TS]

  epilogue not even novelist enough fella [TS]

  it's just weird and I think that's why [TS]

  I'm gonna run come back and tell dave [TS]

  and reminders kinda like everyday get to [TS]

  know [TS]

  and ya know if it so so what we're [TS]

  talking about it again if if you don't [TS]

  want to be well don't listen to podcast [TS]

  with my god what are you doing I'm i [TS]

  haven't read all 880 pages yet what is [TS]

  good as I'm as i'm reading seven Eve's [TS]

  I'm thinking to myself there is no way [TS]

  that Neal Stephenson is not going to be [TS]

  able to write 5,000 years later there's [TS]

  no way you've set up this thing where [TS]

  they're going to wait five thousand [TS]

  years in order to find out if there's [TS]

  anybody left alive on earth no writer [TS]

  gets going to set that up and not be [TS]

  able to pull the trigger and paying off [TS]

  so I was well prepared for that moment [TS]

  and then there was and i'm like 'i up [TS]

  and then we enter the the final phase of [TS]

  the book which is a wholly different set [TS]

  of characters but descended from the [TS]

  characters we know and they have crazy [TS]

  adventures on a repop gradually [TS]

  repopulating the earth with its own [TS]

  showing the research of like how do we [TS]

  get the ring to be there in the city is [TS]

  in moving explain how that works [TS]

  any thoughts about that part of the bow [TS]

  madness the part of the last third that [TS]

  I like all the crazy giant machines what [TS]

  annoyed me and this is a spoiler is that [TS]

  people actually survived on the earth [TS]

  and it crazily it's the people that were [TS]

  on the earth before that we're talking [TS]

  to the people on the face that survived [TS]

  what oh my gosh you're not completely [TS]

  Telegraph for the whole book I mean it [TS]

  was like telling IMA submarine we are [TS]

  going deeper [TS]

  I can't tell you anymore it's a secret [TS]

  Shh but we are going deeper and then [TS]

  well it's my selfie we are going in [TS]

  caves we will close the door in the [TS]

  caves look for us later and then do they [TS]

  meet the the descendants of the cave [TS]

  people and the submarine people [TS]

  yeah yes ok so you know what it's it's [TS]

  crazy escape of science fiction and I [TS]

  don't you know whatever my the the [TS]

  biggest tragedy for me and get mega [TS]

  spoiler is that our cave friends are [TS]

  theoretically descended from Dinah [TS]

  character in the story her father who [TS]

  have been basically introduced to and in [TS]

  fact one of the motion most emotional [TS]

  parts at least for me of a book [TS]

  and yeah the the more sources whether [TS]

  when they're just saying when they're [TS]

  saying yeah cute security of my god i [TS]

  was i was doing on that but she sent me [TS]

  a little more code messages to her [TS]

  father from the space station and the [TS]

  earth is slowly accepting fire [TS]

  yeah exactly and that was such a [TS]

  wonderful moment and they build up Rufus [TS]

  to be this wonderful human-like very [TS]

  human essence of like old world humanity [TS]

  and then 5,000 years later [TS]

  yeah his descendants are all the worst [TS]

  of old-world humanity and assholes and [TS]

  probably rape their children and you [TS]

  know do horrible things to their young [TS]

  women and men people after the [TS]

  encyclopedia [TS]

  it was just it it felt so like such a [TS]

  betrayal of that of that character and [TS]

  that family relationship and what I had [TS]

  pictured of that family relationship for [TS]

  the first thousand pages of the book [TS]

  that I that I almost stopped reading at [TS]

  that point because i was just like no [TS]

  this is you know what I don't care that [TS]

  you're going to bring the bring [TS]

  descendants back fine whatever it's the [TS]

  it's fantasy but to to ruin that carrot [TS]

  I don't know it felt like it felt like [TS]

  ruining that that arc it felt like no [TS]

  sorry if you go into a cave the bad [TS]

  people when the end although he did try [TS]

  to explain or mansplain depending on [TS]

  your Christmas did try to explain away [TS]

  by saying listen when you're in a cave [TS]

  with limited resources you have to [TS]

  become fanatical about reproduction and [TS]

  the only way to do that is to establish [TS]

  a totalitarian regime and treat people's [TS]

  fertility like a community like the [TS]

  communal resource and I thought to [TS]

  myself that is one way of doing it yes [TS]

  but you don't like serenity I thought [TS]

  it's disappointing that humanity on the [TS]

  grounds on the ground find you seem to [TS]

  devolve to to this the stark patriarchal [TS]

  tribalism where was his first ask [TS]

  questions later I found myself wishing [TS]

  that perhaps instead of like touching [TS]

  down in Alaska [TS]

  Oh quelle coincidence deines descendants [TS]

  like it would have been interesting to [TS]

  see if some other miners in other parts [TS]

  of the world that are famous for their [TS]

  mining industries would have had the [TS]

  same idea and then you would have been [TS]

  dealing with people who didn't have that [TS]

  cultural and genetic connect [TS]

  action because a lot what I thought so I [TS]

  really just like a lot of part 34 a lot [TS]

  of reasons but one of the things I [TS]

  thought was fascinating was how they had [TS]

  basically made a religion of the seven [TS]

  Eve's by ceaselessly looping the footage [TS]

  in public places [TS]

  Andrea indoctrinating people constantly [TS]

  by having them see Stephenson seems to [TS]

  labor under the sweet delusion that if [TS]

  people only have all the facts they'll [TS]

  act reasonably and come to some quarter [TS]

  cups or cultural accord and this [TS]

  delusion is like on full on display in [TS]

  part 3 without sin we can just watch the [TS]

  footage we can removal ambiguity and [TS]

  everybody comes to some sort of common [TS]

  cultural candidates to have these people [TS]

  behaved with each other and I I thought [TS]

  it was really interesting how facts have [TS]

  out how the worship of factual narrative [TS]

  has become a religious a religious [TS]

  belief system for these people 5,000 [TS]

  years hence you know what i find really [TS]

  interesting there actually is that I [TS]

  think Stephenson is even playing on that [TS]

  a little bit because we get a whole we [TS]

  get a whole bunch between Dinah and IV [TS]

  very early on in the book basically what [TS]

  two of the people on the space station [TS]

  who become two of the seven Eve's we get [TS]

  a whole thing back and forth between [TS]

  them about basically being on and have [TS]

  it you know there's a there's a [TS]

  difference between being on and being [TS]

  ourselves and there's a difference then [TS]

  when the cameras are on and when the [TS]

  station cameras are rolling and when we [TS]

  can just talk real talk [TS]

  and i love the idea of like I maybe [TS]

  maybe it was completely out of his head [TS]

  by the time that this was written but to [TS]

  me it feels very much like someone [TS]

  picking up you know the bachelor a lost [TS]

  paradise or something and being like [TS]

  this is our religion [TS]

  these are our descendants we must listen [TS]

  to every single word they say and find [TS]

  some meaning i would absolutely read the [TS]

  science fiction novel based on that [TS]

  premise I would have it would be [TS]

  hilarious i would i would read that book [TS]

  all I would look at my job doing that [TS]

  but wow that sounds phenomenal i want to [TS]

  read it now and there are a lot of slide [TS]

  touches in there there's a lot of the [TS]

  book there are a lot of little things [TS]

  that I liked and kinda want to take the [TS]

  social but about like I thought it was [TS]

  both savage and hilarious when he went [TS]

  when the journalist who gets up there [TS]

  introduces the idea of quote-unquote [TS]

  soft cannibalism because to me that [TS]

  seems like exactly the kind of idea that [TS]

  gets paddled in vc meetings and startups [TS]

  and I thought wow that's a really [TS]

  vicious commentary on the whole chatter [TS]

  on TV chattering classes thing and and [TS]

  the way that poor blockers life ended [TS]

  was so that's that is somebody something [TS]

  some scores and I mean riveting to read [TS]

  don't get me wrong but I'm like I said I [TS]

  the big problem I had with part 3 was of [TS]

  PTFE is existence of the the deep diving [TS]

  species of the pingers that's right and [TS]

  that part of its like women are you see [TS]

  how how would a bunch of people in a [TS]

  submarine have radically altered the [TS]

  human genome to the point they would [TS]

  have had to over 5,000 years to produce [TS]

  what is essentially a race of man seals [TS]

  you know God at that guy like that side [TS]

  weird [TS]

  yeah like the science like I realize [TS]

  mind you that you know where this is [TS]

  America is a weird thing to snark about [TS]

  in in this and especially since genetic [TS]

  engineering does play a huge part with [TS]

  the the races that have descended from [TS]

  the seven Eve's but I was like you know [TS]

  I don't feel like this is [TS]

  well-researched Aurora's carefully [TS]

  thought-out as again all the stuff that [TS]

  has to do with the space nerdery like [TS]

  the space nerdery that is that is stuff [TS]

  for you could probably get a boatload of [TS]

  NASA people really like no story checks [TS]

  out [TS]

  um but when it came to the genetic [TS]

  engineering on there's almost no [TS]

  explanation for for any of it and that [TS]

  kind of bug because i thought you're [TS]

  talking about fundamentally altering a [TS]

  human genome and you're talking about a [TS]

  very small group of of raw material to [TS]

  begin with and it's like I can't make it [TS]

  work in my head I can't suspend [TS]

  disbelief for it i think one of the [TS]

  problems with this book is that it's i'm [TS]

  not convinced that any of its science is [TS]

  anything but ridiculous which makes it a [TS]

  lot harder to sit through the downloads [TS]

  the fact the idea that we're going to [TS]

  take kind of a retrofitted International [TS]

  Space Station and just put a bunch of [TS]

  stuff up there and people are totally [TS]

  going to figure out how to survive in [TS]

  space without any contact with earth for [TS]

  5,000 years [TS]

  no that's not gonna work it's not gonna [TS]

  work and and he didn't prove to me [TS]

  anything that would suggest that it does [TS]

  it would work [TS]

  it's sort of like lots of waving of the [TS]

  hands like no no we're resourceful we'll [TS]

  figure it out like now I don't think [TS]

  anything you provided here would really [TS]

  legitimately work and then the fact that [TS]

  that by the time you get to the midpoint [TS]

  of the book almost everybody has died [TS]

  already kind of love that actually like [TS]

  that's the part that feels very [TS]

  realistic sure horrible but then [TS]

  everybody does this bien price and yes [TS]

  and no you don't get to space to get a [TS]

  nice burgundy comes back having died for [TS]

  rectal bleeding [TS]

  oh yeah that's a little i thought that [TS]

  was kind of cool when the Elon Musk [TS]

  analog goes to a comet and brings it [TS]

  back but I got a lot comment yeah for [TS]

  the other grass Tyson gets the space [TS]

  cancer [TS]

  yeah everybody gets the space cancer [TS]

  except for except for the Carly Fiorina [TS]

  stand injustice a bolt through the [TS]

  tongue so there is any old deGrasse [TS]

  Tyson analog yeah in here the daughter [TS]

  here's a good kid alright so this is the [TS]

  thing that has been bugging me about [TS]

  this book ever since I right and can I [TS]

  talk about with you like they have they [TS]

  have a son i have the summit of the [TS]

  seven Eve's the the seven women who are [TS]

  literally that the last of the human [TS]

  race out in space [TS]

  one of them is patently insane [TS]

  yes and and one of them is just an evil [TS]

  woman who is whoo-hoo-hoo let's face it [TS]

  basically precipitated the crisis that [TS]

  they find themselves and now thanks to [TS]

  her like breaking the crater lake accord [TS]

  and causing a cosmic incident and then [TS]

  causing the insurrection that causes [TS]

  them to lose all their germplasm blah [TS]

  why on earth would you let these to [TS]

  reproduce like why didn't anyone like [TS]

  just without the space gun at that point [TS]

  and go right you're out boom boom [TS]

  okay we got five of us here let's run [TS]

  the numbers like I just do not get the [TS]

  point [TS]

  why do not kill Peeta and Julia when you [TS]

  get the chance what is the point to keep [TS]

  him around again wouldn't have a [TS]

  palindrome you [TS]

  well that's true but also there were [TS]

  what their eight there's one person who [TS]

  was too old to me yeah i mean he's right [TS]

  so that means they think they're the [TS]

  last eight humans in the universe and [TS]

  even if two of them are not so great a [TS]

  that's that's a quarter of the human [TS]

  race right that you're just gonna kill [TS]

  tonight improving the species [TS]

  well yeah I mean that the holistic way [TS]

  of looking at it and I do think I do [TS]

  think there's a very valid point there [TS]

  especially when we do flash 5,000 years [TS]

  later it's like oh yeah these guys [TS]

  stealing my and everybody more [TS]

  interesting with yeah that's right of [TS]

  course it's an it's a rice it's a race [TS]

  bread of the aggressors and cannibals [TS]

  when you expect like I am all for nature [TS]

  over nurture over nature and all of that [TS]

  but yeah I the only way i can [TS]

  rationalize it is Scott's thing where [TS]

  it's like these like these women as [TS]

  crazy as they are have been through so [TS]

  much together that there's just there's [TS]

  a at this point and line in the sand I [TS]

  mean Dinah's pretty much ready to blow [TS]

  everybody up at the end anyway I just be [TS]

  like I we don't we don't deserve it [TS]

  yeah and that would have been an [TS]

  interesting thing if but then what that [TS]

  does is 5,000 years later like the [TS]

  people come out of there came an Alaskan [TS]

  like crap nobody has bothered prepping [TS]

  the atmosphere that last two tests and [TS]

  here's real steel hose to go back inside [TS]

  and your eyes the encyclopedia is my [TS]

  love sonar tax law so our tracks Liza [TS]

  door so that I anyways he's probably [TS]

  been raped by the creepy Bollman yeah [TS]

  but she's found true love with ms yeah [TS]

  and as and has a companion deep [TS]

  knowledge of many subjects between smt [TS]

  yeah between sonar in tax on her hand up [TS]

  it was interesting how they balanced out [TS]

  the devolution from a written culture to [TS]

  an oral culture to I thought I thought [TS]

  that part was pretty I was like okay [TS]

  maybe maybe the acceptance dr. [TS]

  communication scholar because they're [TS]

  there are significant cognitive [TS]

  differences in language differences [TS]

  between oral cultures and written [TS]

  cultures and how you transmit pass [TS]

  information down he got that right part [TS]

  of my beef and I i just put this on [TS]

  Twitter chatter is Sharia stepper wrote [TS]

  this fantastic book back in 1996 called [TS]

  Gibbons decline and fall which science [TS]

  fiction as with a lot of her books [TS]

  reproductive freedom is one of the [TS]

  predominant platico through it and at [TS]

  the end the protagonist is handed six [TS]

  different color vials [TS]

  and said ok you can figure out how to [TS]

  guarantee the reproduction of the [TS]

  species one it's business as usual usual [TS]

  to its parthenogenesis three and and the [TS]

  ideas that she has to pick the future of [TS]

  the species and I I couldn't stop [TS]

  thinking about that scene in that book [TS]

  during that the summit of the seven [TS]

  Eve's plus Louisa because i thought wow [TS]

  this was done a lot better by Carrie [TS]

  temper 20 years or so and that was [TS]

  enough actually points to another [TS]

  problem i have with the whole oh and [TS]

  here's how we manage to five thousand [TS]

  years of culture in our little space [TS]

  structures and we now have what amounts [TS]

  to the US and Soviet relations and so on [TS]

  and so forth is um John Varley who we [TS]

  have discussed in earlier apocalypse [TS]

  type book clubs back in the seventies [TS]

  John Varley what a novel called the OPG [TS]

  hotline and the premise was that a bunch [TS]

  of aliens watched how humans were [TS]

  treating other species and said okay [TS]

  right we're on the dolphins and the [TS]

  Whale side here and then managed to a [TS]

  neutralize all human technology to [TS]

  attempt to cleanse the earth of humans [TS]

  and the only people who could the only [TS]

  the only people who survived four people [TS]

  on a space station and they colonize the [TS]

  column is the moon and then Charlie has [TS]

  a whole host of short stories and a [TS]

  couple more novels about Lunar Society [TS]

  lunar culture and they are fantastically [TS]

  thought out from a sociological [TS]

  perspective and it culminates in the [TS]

  novel steel Beach which talks about the [TS]

  depression that people have when you are [TS]

  raised in an environment that you simply [TS]

  haven't evolved to and I thought well [TS]

  you know if they've already got the [TS]

  genetic engineering going on with the [TS]

  races at the seven Eve's why don't they [TS]

  talk a little bit more explicitly about [TS]

  what it would take to evolve us to the [TS]

  two of all human beings to the point [TS]

  where they're totally okay living in a [TS]

  world that that literally does not [TS]

  paying any of the Paleolithic cuff [TS]

  buttons we had installed like there were [TS]

  a few illusions here and there with a [TS]

  calf to and how she was suffering from [TS]

  sensory overload when she was gliding [TS]

  around stuff like that but again it felt [TS]

  like this question either didn't [TS]

  interest him enough to answer or like he [TS]

  didn't even think about it and I just [TS]

  kept thinking how Farley did this better [TS]

  and early too [TS]

  earlier and that's not a good sign when [TS]

  you're reading an absorbing 900-page [TS]

  epic and you like up [TS]

  read it read it read it seen them since [TS]

  done it's been done better here you know [TS]

  about you suggested that you you liked [TS]

  the end part so I'm a big fan of space [TS]

  opera and so this is you know when [TS]

  they're he's talking about these giant [TS]

  space rings and I like reading about the [TS]

  the hardware which is why i like [TS]

  military science fiction because a lot [TS]

  of time is spent lavished on hardware [TS]

  right there's a lot of that they're so [TS]

  there's a lot of that and the third part [TS]

  there's a lot of the first and second [TS]

  part but that's more you know like [TS]

  current technology plus a lot of chain [TS]

  physics which I didn't find all having [TS]

  fascinating but I think Neal Stephenson [TS]

  really find it interesting [TS]

  clearly he does so but i thought i liked [TS]

  the the first part the most i think when [TS]

  they're you know neil degrasse tyson was [TS]

  trying to figure out what what it means [TS]

  that the moon has exploded and he [TS]

  figures that he's horrified that's your [TS]

  disaster story right that's your classic [TS]

  disaster story parts portion of this [TS]

  book [TS]

  yes I thought that was the best part if [TS]

  I would have but now i'm going to rank [TS]

  the parts i agree with the first part [TS]

  was the best part the second part was [TS]

  the second best part and the third part [TS]

  i was the third best part III the third [TS]

  hurts me to 5th or 6th best part really [TS]

  come yeah I you know I like to I like [TS]

  the third part but i think really that [TS]

  renders comments about it are right on [TS]

  which is I think it's actually more [TS]

  problematic when you're thinking about [TS]

  the direction it's pointed from the [TS]

  first two parts and thinking about the [TS]

  the families of these various people i [TS]

  thought it was interesting I thought it [TS]

  went on too long and had way too much [TS]

  detail on how the various objects that [TS]

  have been built around the earth work [TS]

  but that's again i feel like i like [TS]

  everything you did your email Stephenson [TS]

  he's just gonna show his work he is [TS]

  going to show his work in a lot of ways [TS]

  that you don't yeah he doesn't do a [TS]

  grocery store list that going to like a [TS]

  two-page digression on the mechanics of [TS]

  refrigeration and how grocery stores [TS]

  came to be because it's an interesting [TS]

  story and i like that in general and I [TS]

  also i like he so the chain thing I [TS]

  thought was annoying but he did thread [TS]

  it through the hole [TS]

  every part had a part with the chain you [TS]

  know they had weapons that were were [TS]

  based on that chain thing and part of [TS]

  the whole giant megastructures part [TS]

  changed so he put it through which I [TS]

  appreciated i did still think it was [TS]

  annoying but I appreciate the work you [TS]

  did you put in there that that's why I [TS]

  usually avoid deal Stevenson was at his [TS]

  best [TS]

  I find him to be a slog so I didn't [TS]

  think this was some of his best now and [TS]

  I mean justjust contrasting the two [TS]

  books the water knife i read in about [TS]

  seventy-two hours and this took me about [TS]

  two and a half weeks you know about Izzy [TS]

  times longer than the white is 80 so but [TS]

  actually sitting down saying i have to [TS]

  keep reading this because i'm going to [TS]

  talk about it and where is put the other [TS]

  one was like I want to find out what [TS]

  happens and you know again it was you [TS]

  know been there done that read that seem [TS]

  that you know and and I kept coming back [TS]

  to a julienne may if you want to see [TS]

  someone handle while families across [TS]

  that was memorizing zip years are you to [TS]

  get our dynasty yeah oh my god yeah [TS]

  those books yeah yeah that's that's good [TS]

  stuff [TS]

  so this was sort of like oh you came up [TS]

  with a palindrome good job I wife and I [TS]

  think you're right there is a really [TS]

  good novel hidden inside here it is the [TS]

  last policeman ok i enjoyed this book [TS]

  and I read a couple of interviews with [TS]

  Stephenson and he his goal and I think [TS]

  that he has a group of science fiction [TS]

  authors that he's buddy-buddy with who [TS]

  all think that people have lost sight of [TS]

  trying to do big challenges and do big [TS]

  science so this was kind of his clarion [TS]

  call to have big ideas so he wrote this [TS]

  big epic swimming thing which I think [TS]

  talk speaks a little bit to the fact [TS]

  that he kind of the people don't really [TS]

  matter because they are banding together [TS]

  to solve this giant problem and it's not [TS]

  about individuals and I understand you [TS]

  know i agree with you Lisa in that the [TS]

  stories are of course the most [TS]

  interesting when you have a character [TS]

  that you kind of feel invested in and [TS]

  can humanize but i don't think i think [TS]

  it was a conscious decision on his point [TS]

  part not to do that at [TS]

  or not that makes it good or bad I won't [TS]

  yeah I read some interviews right he [TS]

  said the same thing he's all yeah I [TS]

  wanted to bring back this commitment to [TS]

  ideas that science fiction can inspire [TS]

  people to do big ideas and I thought to [TS]

  myself yeah characters are important and [TS]

  he you know people can unite around an [TS]

  idea i thought yeah but you know what [TS]

  that was called that one's called the [TS]

  Martian when you know where everyone [TS]

  United around the idea of bringing home [TS]

  those dudes stranded on Mars so maybe [TS]

  maybe it is possible to advocate for big [TS]

  ideas while remembering that ideas are [TS]

  only successful when you can figure out [TS]

  how to how to have put humanity into the [TS]

  picture because they're the ones execute [TS]

  the ideas if you know anyone character [TS]

  in the Martian you can you cannot [TS]

  potatoes you can you go right now in [TS]

  other words that's that are full of [TS]

  ideas but you have to have a story that [TS]

  makes people want to rally around those [TS]

  ideas and I think that's one of the [TS]

  places where Stevens and often struggles [TS]

  is that that that's when he is i'm going [TS]

  to show you how I did all this work and [TS]

  again I think he's so talented that he [TS]

  can often pull it pull it off but I i [TS]

  think that i think it's a challenge in [TS]

  and in this case I you know I read it I [TS]

  read it all [TS]

  I read it relatively quickly these are [TS]

  all things go in the back panties are [TS]

  coming i read it all home i mean i [TS]

  didn't i didn't know how to run it and [TS]

  in fact I read it fairly quickly so we [TS]

  passed to the test but that all said I i [TS]

  found myself kind of squinting and being [TS]

  like really deal Stephenson way more [TS]

  than I usually do in his book and so [TS]

  that for me I have to say I was kind of [TS]

  disappointed even though there's a lot [TS]

  of great [TS]

  there's a lot of great stuff in this [TS]

  book it's just a really big book and [TS]

  there's a lot of not great stuff in it [TS]

  to me did a very good editor which it [TS]

  did [TS]

  now there's a guy named do i just-i [TS]

  can't-- the past do business i wonder if [TS]

  Neil deGrasse Tyson's like a total [TS]

  stoner as a college they have this side [TS]

  joke I can't because I was like whether [TS]

  it's a neil degrasse tyson person and [TS]

  and then that's a lot mosque and then [TS]

  when you get to Julia I was I was going [TS]

  through like okay it's not Sarah Palin [TS]

  but it's no it's yeah I don't know it [TS]

  he's a visa frustrating and and [TS]

  fascinating writer and and and it but it [TS]

  pulled me along i love i love this stuff [TS]

  i mean Lisa we've talked about how many [TS]

  times and with many of the people who [TS]

  are on this episode about into the world [TS]

  stories and and and how they can be [TS]

  really interesting it and attracting I [TS]

  just you know a lot of the stuff I [TS]

  didn't I didn't I didn't but [TS]

  didn't I didn't I didn't but [TS]

  I had like I love the space stuff and [TS]

  the idea of going to the comment and [TS]

  they end up dying of horrible like [TS]

  radiation poisoning and all that is [TS]

  really an interesting story but there's [TS]

  a lot of stuff that I just couldn't [TS]

  believe like you know this isn't we [TS]

  aren't gonna if he's really saying [TS]

  here's my big idea we need to be able to [TS]

  survive in a rickety space station when [TS]

  the earth gets destroyed [TS]

  I don't think he I don't think he [TS]

  convinced me that that's remotely [TS]

  possible that one out [TS]

  yeah you know this this is struck us [TS]

  hard for me because this is a book that [TS]

  opens with one of the best opening lines [TS]

  that I've seen in recent years moon blew [TS]

  up suddenly and without warning is the [TS]

  kind of sentence that just grabs you and [TS]

  especially the the first couple of [TS]

  chapters I although I have to say [TS]

  listening to them an audiobook format [TS]

  the second time around when I was [TS]

  listening with someone else like this is [TS]

  actually a lot more dense than I [TS]

  remembered the opening being I remember [TS]

  being like movable up suddenly without [TS]

  warning a little bit with Dinah and then [TS]

  the let's have a star party and look at [TS]

  the pieces of the moon [TS]

  oh crap we've been focusing on the wrong [TS]

  thing yeah it's just like there there is [TS]

  these really wonderful moments in the in [TS]

  within this book that sort of slice out [TS]

  I just what I think the core of the [TS]

  story is these one of these seven or [TS]

  eight people that we follow throughout [TS]

  the throughout the book and there their [TS]

  whole their own individual challenges [TS]

  but surrounding those from surrounding [TS]

  those little bubble habitats are [TS]

  infinite areas of space and myspace I [TS]

  mean random descriptions about things [TS]

  that again we're playing for me at least [TS]

  work i was so hooked by the opening [TS]

  couple of chapters and then there's just [TS]

  bits here and there that would every [TS]

  time i would get a little bit weary of [TS]

  it would just snag me again like the [TS]

  we've been thinking about the wrong [TS]

  thing and the you know qrt and like [TS]

  little little bits here and there that [TS]

  kept me on the the overall train but [TS]

  looking at it in retrospective and [TS]

  especially going back from mysore [TS]

  fast-paced reading to listen [TS]

  through it with a friend on a car ride I [TS]

  was it made me realize that the book [TS]

  wasn't quite as I want to say great [TS]

  because i didn't think necessarily the [TS]

  book was great but i thought it had [TS]

  really fascinating elements and I i [TS]

  think going back to it and looking at it [TS]

  again it becomes more hollow where [TS]

  you're like yeah you have these [TS]

  wonderful of these wonderful Owens and [TS]

  then you tear them down and then you [TS]

  spend 30 pages talking about rockets [TS]

  which is still interesting but a really [TS]

  good editor could have paired this into [TS]

  a really good novel I I i agree with you [TS]

  but it seems like once people become [TS]

  established novelists they may unless [TS]

  they really really trust and want to [TS]

  work with an editor they don't get [TS]

  edited anymore and we talked about that [TS]

  on the show many times bestselling [TS]

  author not you [TS]

  yeah so so so I'm going to all my words [TS]

  are golden I don't know what you're [TS]

  talking about people love me and that's [TS]

  why are they love my thousand-page books [TS]

  and that's why i write thousand-page [TS]

  books and nobody stopped to say this [TS]

  would be a stronger book or if they did [TS]

  they were told you don't say that to him [TS]

  you're being reassigned he has a sword [TS]

  and I apologize to the editor if this [TS]

  was originally 1,200 pages it was [TS]

  actually four thousand page letter had [TS]

  been like really they're going to let [TS]

  Julia live after she violates everything [TS]

  that this project stands for like why [TS]

  didn't they just have Russian athlete [TS]

  whose name I'm blanking on like they [TS]

  could have had her just shove Julia an [TS]

  airlock again and like a lot of problems [TS]

  could have been delayed and I really [TS]

  wish and everyone said you know this [TS]

  doesn't bear up logically speaking um [TS]

  yeah or and Neil Neil we will adjust [TS]

  it's going to be an 800-page book but [TS]

  the last 10 pages is going to be [TS]

  footnotes that and and appendices but [TS]

  you know we're not going to let's not [TS]

  put them in the actual manuscript no [TS]

  it'sit's he's such a talented writer and [TS]

  I worry a little bit that he's kind of [TS]

  um he's kinda lost his way now where [TS]

  he's going to get to do what he wants [TS]

  and people are going to go along because [TS]

  he's so well known and he is test so [TS]

  talented and this is too [TS]

  in a row that have been problematic for [TS]

  me and although i like the first again I [TS]

  like the first whatever it is half of [TS]

  remedy before it becomes a a sort of [TS]

  like action movie out in the woods which [TS]

  was fine for what it was but was not [TS]

  what we come to expect from him but you [TS]

  know it makes me want to go back and i [TS]

  would say reread the baroque cycle but I [TS]

  don't have that kind of time but like go [TS]

  back and read reread right to nomicon [TS]

  cryptonomicon or or even at them frankly [TS]

  and jones i was i was thinkin bout [TS]

  cryptonomicon in contrast to this [TS]

  because there's a very funny passage [TS]

  cryptonomicon about how one of the [TS]

  characters vengeful ex-girlfriends raise [TS]

  an academic paper on beards as a status [TS]

  symbol MIT and and I and Stephenson is [TS]

  very very funny when he's securing the [TS]

  culture around science and engineering [TS]

  and I appreciate it there and I saw what [TS]

  he was trying to do with it here but [TS]

  it's it's so bloated you really had to [TS]

  dig through a lot of it and there are a [TS]

  lot of times when it wasn't just [TS]

  suspending disbelief was like okay I i [TS]

  really have to just accept this is going [TS]

  to happen there there inexplicably going [TS]

  to let Julia live there inexplicably [TS]

  going to let all of the storage units [TS]

  that have all of the ova and sperm drift [TS]

  away with a bunch of demented youngsters [TS]

  and Julia they are going to do a fine [TS]

  you know it just like getting up in [TS]

  space was not the problem i really wish [TS]

  he had taken the time to talk to some of [TS]

  those those hated and feared non hard [TS]

  science types who are you know say [TS]

  sociologists and other people who study [TS]

  like communities that work in close [TS]

  quarters and stressful situations like [TS]

  it would've been helpful if you talk to [TS]

  somebody who isn't it for god sakes the [TS]

  features a submarine like they could [TS]

  drop some submarine science with well [TS]

  you know the Navy studied how these [TS]

  groups work together in these tight [TS]

  close quarters which can kill them [TS]

  here's maybe we should consider doing [TS]

  like there was literally nothing about [TS]

  the social human engineering in this and [TS]

  I think what you're talking about the [TS]

  fate of the human race you kinda have to [TS]

  bring that up i did I one thing that I I [TS]

  am disappointed that he didn't series we [TS]

  sort of made good on all other threads i [TS]

  am sorry that at the end he doesn't say [TS]

  Oh didn't we tell you what there are [TS]

  also people on Mars [TS]

  just because people go to Mars some of [TS]

  the rebels say we're gonna go to Mars [TS]

  and all the other unaccounted for [TS]

  survivors of Earth established societies [TS]

  that were flourishing 5,000 years later [TS]

  but they don't even mention like oh you [TS]

  know that they all died or 10 [TS]

  miraculously like everyone else they [TS]

  survived but there's many have a term is [TS]

  equal no word about the Martians yeah [TS]

  this is the pingers he doesn't rate [TS]

  sequel submarine people [TS]

  yes Stevenson's on the record saying [TS]

  that he doesn't ever believed in so he [TS]

  gets the whole story out of it takes [TS]

  some 3,000 pages that's about Jewish [TS]

  equals are just extra long it blocks no [TS]

  yeah [TS]

  any other thoughts about uh about what [TS]

  the heck is this book called i can [TS]

  remember seventies i'll say downward [TS]

  seven Eve's anybody have any any other [TS]

  quality i do of course it yeah at least [TS]

  you have more thoughts i do besides that [TS]

  whole second novella of thoughts [TS]

  yeah it's it's 800 pages that part I [TS]

  know I'm i said this before saturday [TS]

  popped on where I said I really admired [TS]

  the book and quality that serenity had [TS]

  discerned when she put these two books [TS]

  together because with seventies you have [TS]

  this space operates grand scale and [TS]

  scope and it's suddenly the super [TS]

  optimistic book about how science will [TS]

  solve all your problems and humidity [TS]

  will you know rise to the challenge and [TS]

  o things will be wonderful in the future [TS]

  they'll be you know hanging out and cool [TS]

  bars you drink in grapes farm by the [TS]

  andhra Thals and we and then the flip [TS]

  side of it is this incredibly intimate [TS]

  story in the water knife where it looks [TS]

  at how no science and technology only [TS]

  solve problems for people whose problems [TS]

  extend to have a nicer found in my [TS]

  archaeology that nobody else can get [TS]

  into or how can my air filter work [TS]

  better as I rip through the the [TS]

  sandstorm getting ready to put the hurt [TS]

  on some of my boss wants me to its it [TS]

  was two very able to opposition always [TS]

  looking at the at the end of the world [TS]

  for somebody and I liked how the [TS]

  differences in scope and the differences [TS]

  in the way that the two chose to look at [TS]

  the human condition and how that affects [TS]

  the outcome of of a of a society's [TS]

  future they could not have been more [TS]

  different and I think that reading them [TS]

  back-to-back like I did for this podcast [TS]

  real [TS]

  we highlighted that for me so you know [TS]

  seven years if you read that in context [TS]

  with the water knife it's it's just like [TS]

  wow this is big big big and scope oh my [TS]

  god i just keeps going and getting [TS]

  bigger and I've lost track of who all [TS]

  the characters are because i've just [TS]

  read some more about chains filled with [TS]

  robots and from there so many robots so [TS]

  many chance now I thought it was I [TS]

  thought it was I thought it was some [TS]

  helpful to look at it in contrast with a [TS]

  very intimate end of the world book [TS]

  which is what the water knife isn't a [TS]

  lot of ways you know coming up the same [TS]

  idea from two very different points of [TS]

  view exactly who go read Julian may just [TS]

  be Julian ok please you recommend the [TS]

  place in soccer would you just go [TS]

  straight into the straight into the [TS]

  stuff that start to Jeff the body list i [TS]

  would i would start with the police in [TS]

  saket okay i mean i-i would i first read [TS]

  them all in order just in in publishing [TS]

  order [TS]

  alright we have we have a come to the [TS]

  point of the show where I very quickly [TS]

  want to go around and ask my panelists [TS]

  if there's anything interesting that [TS]

  they're reading or have just read other [TS]

  than the books we've already talked [TS]

  about this is what we like to call what [TS]

  are you reading [TS]

  David Laura what are you reading well [TS]

  i'm back in writing mode so i'm reading [TS]

  nonfiction again and i'm reading the [TS]

  monopolists obsession fury and the [TS]

  scandal behind the world's favorite [TS]

  board game by Mary pallone it's about [TS]

  the game of life right [TS]

  yeah yeah and scrabble and and trivial [TS]

  pursuit ok good sits yeah good [TS]

  that's as it should be and yes you have [TS]

  script you you owe me some scripts so [TS]

  keep on reading nonfiction it Lisa what [TS]

  are you reading [TS]

  oh I'm I'm breathing two things at once [TS]

  i'm reading citizen coke the making of [TS]

  coca-cola capitalism by bart ojl more [TS]

  and i finally got my copy of randleman [TS]

  Rose what if serious scientific answers [TS]

  yes you too absurd hypothetical [TS]

  questions so those are the two that i'm [TS]

  reading concur i usually have like two [TS]

  or three bucks going into time and I [TS]

  just kind of flip through them depending [TS]

  on the mood for all right that's that's [TS]

  good [TS]

  serenity what are you reading [TS]

  I'm working my way through allen-bradley [TS]

  is Flavian loose series which is the [TS]

  side what young adults post-world war [TS]

  two story about a young girl in Britain [TS]

  who who loves making poisons and it's [TS]

  and she sells murder mystery spot for [TS]

  watering it's very it's very clever [TS]

  training with yes very clever writing [TS]

  it's it's delightful English countryside [TS]

  it's a nice mashup and then i'm also [TS]

  reading the real all Americans which is [TS]

  I just started reading at about [TS]

  basically about the early days of [TS]

  football and the teams who basically [TS]

  cheated or cheated and the reverse [TS]

  cheating that gave college football it's [TS]

  all of its rules and regulations because [TS]

  as as as somebody who participates in a [TS]

  sport that is only 10 years old and has [TS]

  a lot of rules negotiating happening [TS]

  live on the track is fascinating to to [TS]

  see that from a from another from a [TS]

  sport that's now pretty storied in its [TS]

  very early days it's got what are you [TS]

  reading or have read that is a worthy [TS]

  how I've read two novels right after I [TS]

  read the seventies and water knife both [TS]

  of which I thought were better than [TS]

  seven leaves or the water knife one of [TS]

  which is by an author that jason has [TS]

  sworn off forever so I'm sure he will [TS]

  never read it unless nominee for Hugo [TS]

  which i think is going and that's Aurora [TS]

  by Kim Stanley Robinson which is I've [TS]

  heard good things about it but uh yeah [TS]

  I'm like I'm reluctant to go back there [TS]

  I think I don't want to ruin it because [TS]

  it has some fascinating twists to it but [TS]

  I thought it was fantastic i'm a fan of [TS]

  kim roberts Rakim yeah I am very man the [TS]

  KSR that's what the reason fans [TS]

  Cartwright so I think it's great that [TS]

  her it's basically it follows this [TS]

  generation ship that's going off to [TS]

  colonize world and some things happen [TS]

  and you know it's interesting and there [TS]

  is another book that I really liked by [TS]

  ian MacDonald who is one of my favorite [TS]

  authors [TS]

  I wrote the Dervish house which we [TS]

  talked about on the previous Hugo [TS]

  episode he has the last couple of years [TS]

  been writing young adult fiction which [TS]

  angers me because I don't like an [TS]

  affliction because I am an older adults [TS]

  yeah and this ho ho [TS]

  but he's come back to normal adult [TS]

  fiction and he's written a book called [TS]

  Luna new moon which is set on the moon [TS]

  and someone is called it the game of [TS]

  thrones on the moon which I don't think [TS]

  is really accurate but it involves five [TS]

  families that are fighting on the moon [TS]

  several hundred years in the future and [TS]

  it has many nice little touches the the [TS]

  characters apparently in the moon [TS]

  culture nineteen fifties style has been [TS]

  a research and so people print out 50 [TS]

  dresses and things and go to cocktail [TS]

  parties [TS]

  everybody has these contact lenses that [TS]

  are implanted in their eyes and they get [TS]

  to see how much air they're being [TS]

  charged for and if you run out of money [TS]

  you suffocate and die because you know [TS]

  someone has to pay for the hair they [TS]

  call people who come from the earth to [TS]

  go to the moon they call him Joe [TS]

  moonbeams because they're new and they [TS]

  can't figure out how to stuff that's [TS]

  just a great book so check out alright [TS]

  and for me I i read the end of all [TS]

  things by john scalzi which is the [TS]

  latest in his old man's war series and I [TS]

  I feel like he needs I i believe he is [TS]

  taking a little less step away from the [TS]

  series because i feel like it was kind [TS]

  of wheezing to the finish line [TS]

  it's got some familiar characters but i [TS]

  think he got caught up in the kind of [TS]

  interstellar imaginations at a high [TS]

  level of and add this plotline that went [TS]

  through these last two books about this [TS]

  secret attack on the one human race and [TS]

  I don't think it really merited two [TS]

  books worth of story and I think these [TS]

  series are really the the books in this [TS]

  series have been the best when they [TS]

  focused on on those individual [TS]

  characters and how they make their way [TS]

  in this crazy you know space opera world [TS]

  that he set up and for the last couple [TS]

  we've had a lot of bureaucrats and a lot [TS]

  of negotiations and a lot of ambassadors [TS]

  and it's fine [TS]

  he's a good writer it's entertaining [TS]

  it's always kind of breezy and fun [TS]

  and yet I feel like at the end of it I [TS]

  sort of said yeah okay whatever I [TS]

  honestly I don't even remember how it [TS]

  ends because it was so insubstantial and [TS]

  I just moved on to the to the next thing [TS]

  and then I want to put a shout out to [TS]

  aftermath by check when day which is the [TS]

  star wars novel it's got like one star a [TS]

  million one-star reviews on Amazon [TS]

  because it doesn't answer all of the [TS]

  questions fans have or service fans in [TS]

  the way that they expected and i have to [TS]

  say is I thought it was fine [TS]

  um I don't think I don't think it's bad [TS]

  i don't think it's fantastic but I think [TS]

  honestly it's I pretty good for a meet a [TS]

  a movie franchise tie-in novel and the [TS]

  people who are angry about it or not [TS]

  angry about it because of the content [TS]

  they're angry for personal reasons that [TS]

  don't relate to the actual book so you [TS]

  know that rage [TS]

  yeah it's strong and I understand why [TS]

  they might be angry but it's it's not [TS]

  because of the book because what the [TS]

  book doesn't do which is tell the story [TS]

  that they have imagined for 20 years in [TS]

  their own minds [TS]

  this is what happens when you reboot [TS]

  when you reboot a franchise and when you [TS]

  destroy years of cut former continuity [TS]

  of the Expanded Universe continuity and [TS]

  all that stuff so it's totally [TS]

  understandable from that perspective I [TS]

  just having read the book i can say i [TS]

  thought it was fine i didn't again not [TS]

  great literature or anything but i [TS]

  thought i had some interesting [TS]

  characters it played with the star wars [TS]

  universe in though in the way you might [TS]

  expect our uh novelist to get the chance [TS]

  to play in the star wars universe to do [TS]

  so it you know it was it was fine it was [TS]

  a it was a quick read and and there's [TS]

  nothing wrong with being fine and you [TS]

  read it all and i read it already and [TS]

  that's another great because my was fine [TS]

  i read it all [TS]

  what more do you want from me people [TS]

  only one man put that on your book [TS]

  unless you're ksr no take that well this [TS]

  has been fun i know we're gonna have to [TS]

  figure out what we're going to read next [TS]

  maybe we'll see things that sky [TS]

  recommends that for marketers I don't [TS]

  want to read but that's okay Scott [TS]

  Scott's a reduced me to some fantastic [TS]

  book so perhaps we will have to go go [TS]

  ahead Scott [TS]

  and something he is walking pressure [TS]

  pressure and it is you yet to recommend [TS]

  something to somebody and have them say [TS]

  oh I hated that you know that's the [TS]

  worst that's true i'd like to thank my [TS]

  fellow members of the book club for [TS]

  joining us tonight Lisa Schmeisser thank [TS]

  you so much for being here [TS]

  I had a ball thank you I already called [TS]

  well thank you it was a pleasure [TS]

  I'm glad we all have water I'm glad we [TS]

  have water for now [TS]

  some more than others uh-huh David Laura [TS]

  thank you thank you i'm going to go get [TS]

  some water right now you know i might [TS]

  not surprising that is sooo tonight so [TS]

  the water dive cut a little close for [TS]

  you and Scott McNulty of course I it [TS]

  wouldn't be book club without you accept [TS]

  those times when you refuse to be on [TS]

  that's right when someone has [TS]

  recommended a book i will not read [TS]

  exactly what I didn't happen this time [TS]

  no I thought of that so thank you for [TS]

  being here and reading books [TS]

  well thank you read for suggesting with [TS]

  yes yes full credit around for saying we [TS]

  should we should do a book love about [TS]

  this and so we did and this is it and [TS]

  you just heard it and until next week i [TS]

  have been your host Jason's now thank [TS]

  you for listening to be uncomfortable [TS]

  goodbye [TS]

  listen to it all you got to the end in [TS]

  comfortable readers said I heard the end [TS]

  part where they said I got to the end [TS]

  it was a crisp autumn evening in the [TS]

  windy city even though it's only the [TS]

  middle of June as usual i was in the [TS]

  loop down at Falstaff's my guy was [TS]

  blowing the sax the bartender came by to [TS]

  refresh my drink [TS]

  do you think that all the planes a new [TS]

  stuff tonight [TS]

  not so you'd notice Johnny yeah yeah [TS]

  says you [TS]

  you get to hear it all the time all i [TS]

  knows is digging what their plan that [TS]

  doesn't quite work Johnny now with the [TS]

  shop [TS]

  just then a woman blew into the club [TS]

  like an ill wind or maybe a client [TS]

  probably both know how these things go [TS]

  to help you miss [TS]

  i'm looking for a doll tearsheet private [TS]

  I investigator down the bar the moment [TS]

  all the red hair be starting lips [TS]

  you can't miss it hey you dolt a sheet [TS]

  that's what it says on the office door [TS]

  does it also see private eye because I'm [TS]

  being framed for murder and that's how I [TS]

  got caught up in the advanced murder [TS]

  case it's being comfortable radio [TS]

  theatre new episodes through december [TS]

  are you not subscribed yet go to the [TS]

  incomparable calm / radio [TS]

  subscribe now that's an order [TS]