The Incomparable

273: The Long-Term Plan Is Kill All Humans


  this edition of the uncomfortable is [TS]

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  the incomparable number 207 every [TS]

  november 2015 [TS]

  welcome back everybody to the [TS]

  incomparable i am your host Jason smell [TS]

  and I am joined by three fellows who are [TS]

  going to join me in discussing all men [TS]

  all matters well not all matters some [TS]

  matters robotic or artificially [TS]

  intelligent we're gonna talk about two [TS]

  recent films with very interesting takes [TS]

  on the question of artificial [TS]

  intelligence and perhaps we'll leave [TS]

  some time for some tangents about other [TS]

  films that also have touched on these [TS]

  issues the two films in question in on [TS]

  this episode 2013 spike jonze joint [TS]

  called her I i called a joint even [TS]

  though he's not spike lee he spike jonze [TS]

  because that's a that was a reference [TS]

  and now explaining it made it not as [TS]

  good and ex machina a british science [TS]

  fiction film from this very year of 2015 [TS]

  starting a bunch of people who are in [TS]

  the new Star Wars movie but anyway uh [TS]

  huh [TS]

  joining me to talk about both of these [TS]

  films and perhaps other robots and a is [TS]

  killer and not brian hamilton hello and [TS]

  welcome [TS]

  hi I'm here your i hope so are you here [TS]

  despite Jim's made a movie called i am [TS]

  here so i guess the answer that question [TS]

  for us [TS]

  ok thank you Brian you've confused me [TS]

  already but that's okay are you are [TS]

  you're hotter not David laura is also [TS]

  here [TS]

  hello I'll be with you in a minute i'm [TS]

  downloading a thing on my phone that's [TS]

  really interesting and well we'll get to [TS]

  that and john stark you see you have [TS]

  passed a an exam at work and I'm [TS]

  inviting you to my remote compound for a [TS]

  mysterious it's unexplained reason [TS]

  will you come I'm starting to get the [TS]

  feeling that Hollywood doesn't like [TS]

  artificial intelligence or computers you [TS]

  think anything or silicon valley [TS]

  billionaires quite honestly now I mean [TS]

  and but you know who does who does where [TS]

  should we start should we start with her [TS]

  I think that's the chronologically we [TS]

  should start with her [TS]

  yes alright so spike jonze a very [TS]

  interesting director you may know him [TS]

  from directing that weezer video buddy [TS]

  holly that was where I first heard of [TS]

  mr. spike jonze but he's made a whole [TS]

  bunch of interesting [TS]

  films i believe this is the first film [TS]

  that he's written all by himself but but [TS]

  you know he made being john malkovich he [TS]

  made adaptation which I hated but i [TS]

  really like being john malkovich you [TS]

  made where the wild things are and her [TS]

  in 2013 [TS]

  so I guess we'll start there Joaquin [TS]

  Phoenix is your lead really nice [TS]

  performance from amy adams in this and [TS]

  of course the voice of Scarlett [TS]

  Johansson is her Samantha who is a an [TS]

  intelligent computer they don't refer to [TS]

  them as a eyes which i think is [TS]

  interesting and her they call them os's [TS]

  operating systems because maybe they [TS]

  thought a I was too nerdy but OS wasn't [TS]

  i'm not quite sure I'm sense to me [TS]

  because I guess yeah [TS]

  ki is much more like science fictiony [TS]

  and os I guess especially now with no OS [TS]

  10 and iOS is much more down-to-earth [TS]

  well because it said in the phone and [TS]

  and you know he's trying to make the [TS]

  point that you have this in your pocket [TS]

  basically you know he did the AI is kind [TS]

  of distant whereas OS we all have it [TS]

  fair enough fair enough i just think I [TS]

  thought it was an interesting creative [TS]

  choice to take it out of the realm [TS]

  you're right of science fiction and [TS]

  trying to make it one of the things i [TS]

  like about this movie because it said [TS]

  Annie no near future ish right and i [TS]

  think they do a very good job with some [TS]

  of the the art direction in her that you [TS]

  feel like you feel like you are in the [TS]

  near future and that they have thought [TS]

  of some things to make it feel a little [TS]

  bit different but it also isn't like [TS]

  Blade Runner flying car kind of stuff [TS]

  it's meant to be you know 10 years in [TS]

  the future or five years in the future [TS]

  or something like that something where [TS]

  you're going to say 20 minutes [TS]

  well I was on and then I changed it [TS]

  because old reference lost on younger [TS]

  viewers but it does have that like Max [TS]

  Headroom 45 minutes like Max Headroom [TS]

  this is this is not now but not too far [TS]

  away where this thing takes place and I [TS]

  thought they did a good job of it ever [TS]

  feeling like you know not crazy sci-fi [TS]

  future but but close future [TS]

  well I think you're right about them [TS]

  wanting it to feel like oh you can [TS]

  relate to this cuz [TS]

  you have a cell phone and you use [TS]

  computers and this is not that weird and [TS]

  they're wearing like hipster clothes but [TS]

  that's not that weird either but they [TS]

  also like the heart of the movie they [TS]

  also want to have essentially you [TS]

  they're going to call it artificial [TS]

  intelligence artificial intelligence [TS]

  yeah and I guess that kind of works for [TS]

  people who don't care but this is [TS]

  another one of those movies even though [TS]

  it does want to be sci-fi that doesn't [TS]

  really if you put something in the heart [TS]

  of the movie the consequences of which [TS]

  would make the rest of the movie not the [TS]

  way it is like so you know who get to [TS]

  the plot eventually but the whole idea [TS]

  is there's this computer that it the [TS]

  operating systems that people relate to [TS]

  a sort of friends or whatever and [TS]

  eventually it is really on this is this [TS]

  is just like a real person so what if [TS]

  Siri got really really really good right [TS]

  but but the societal consequences of the [TS]

  existence of that technology are so [TS]

  massive that it's kind of weird to tell [TS]

  like this personal story about this guy [TS]

  and everyone else like oh you know we [TS]

  have this thing where we essentially [TS]

  created electronic life but mostly it's [TS]

  about this lonely guy and there are no [TS]

  other consequences from the technology [TS]

  which I guess works in the context of [TS]

  the movie because you are supposed to [TS]

  really care about what does this mean [TS]

  for the rest of humanity accept that [TS]

  kind of slammed in that direction at the [TS]

  end but i really felt in Congress to me [TS]

  the the tech premise and the sort of the [TS]

  emotional character story in this movie [TS]

  all right i'm gonna fire off the spoiler [TS]

  for now because all I'm going to do is [TS]

  synopsize the plot from her [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  so in her Joaquin Phoenix is falling out [TS]

  of a of a marriage and he's separated [TS]

  from his wife and he's getting a divorce [TS]

  and he has this and he's got hey in a [TS]

  twee element that I felt was right out [TS]

  of a charlie kaufman screenplay [TS]

  even though of collaborators spike jonze [TS]

  but but not involved here he is [TS]

  he writes bespoke letters for other [TS]

  people [TS]

  that's his job bizarre just bizarre but [TS]

  anyway he sets up a an operating system [TS]

  this the basically on his phone and and [TS]

  it gets a customized personality and [TS]

  it's samantha and that's Scarlett [TS]

  Johansson's voice and he's taken aback [TS]

  by how real she seems and she learns and [TS]

  grows with him and he basically falls in [TS]

  love with the voice in the little [TS]

  earpiece that he puts into interact with [TS]

  the internet and the idea is that this [TS]

  is how you interact with the internet [TS]

  you got a little earpiece it can see you [TS]

  can talk to you and it can query all the [TS]

  data on the world and process it and [TS]

  tell you what you need to know which i [TS]

  think is actually a pretty decent [TS]

  extrapolation of what kind of technology [TS]

  we might get in the future but by making [TS]

  it so personal [TS]

  mr. mr. Twombley gets a good falls falls [TS]

  in love with with a the voice in his ear [TS]

  and she professes feelings for him and [TS]

  this up causes issues hehe oh in one [TS]

  scene painful scene he he goes to his [TS]

  ex-wife to sign the final divorce papers [TS]

  and says that he's an in love with her [TS]

  his phone basically and she mocks him [TS]

  and he talks about relationship stuff [TS]

  with his his longtime friend played by [TS]

  amy adams who I really liked and she [TS]

  convinces to go on a date the [TS]

  relationship progresses and and at one [TS]

  point [TS]

  scarlett johansson actually ah they hire [TS]

  a surrogate who is basically a I don't [TS]

  even know how to say it because i don't [TS]

  want to say a a prostitute but a sex [TS]

  worker whose job it is to act as a [TS]

  surrogate for people who are either i [TS]

  presume remote or for artificial [TS]

  intelligences to have a physical [TS]

  presence [TS]

  in the world and he kind of freaks out [TS]

  and and the capper of the entire film is [TS]

  that the the a is the OS is announced [TS]

  that they have become that they've been [TS]

  they've been accelerating into in [TS]

  intelligence throughout the movie and [TS]

  now they reached the point where they're [TS]

  able to like process information without [TS]

  even the use of matter and they're gonna [TS]

  enter probably like another universe or [TS]

  something where they can become super [TS]

  intelligent some things and they're [TS]

  leaving humanity behind and she says [TS]

  goodbye and they leave and that's the [TS]

  end of the movie so going to step back [TS]

  to the surrogates the the thing that [TS]

  surprised me the most about this movie [TS]

  there's a ton of really great hand [TS]

  father in here because they talk so much [TS]

  about the the relationship between [TS]

  Samantha and Theodore they never say Sam [TS]

  instead they always say Samantha and [TS]

  Theodore and they they really don't go [TS]

  that in depth in the technology at all [TS]

  and you mentioned earlier how weird it [TS]

  is that it's so personal despite the [TS]

  fact there's all these really amazing [TS]

  changes going on technologically and the [TS]

  other thing that surprised me especially [TS]

  about the circuit which is my most [TS]

  difficult seen the movie to say the [TS]

  least that seems always hard to watch [TS]

  this movie a few times it's never [TS]

  pleasant but what kind of culture has [TS]

  evolved from these os's I mean we are [TS]

  only maybe an hour hour and 15 minutes [TS]

  into the movie when we get to the [TS]

  surrogate scene and all the sudden [TS]

  there's already this culture of [TS]

  surrogate sex partners and reading [TS]

  circles and all these other things that [TS]

  are involved with with these OS is that [TS]

  it seems like we just got maybe I don't [TS]

  know how much time has passed the movie [TS]

  had to have been maybe a month or two [TS]

  and i'll know and yeah who knows they [TS]

  come on the market and then they're [TS]

  super intelligent methian it's a stretch [TS]

  but i'm watching the speaking of [TS]

  headcanons another situation we're [TS]

  watching a movie that there's a lot to [TS]

  appreciate about this movie like the way [TS]

  it's shot and and the the actors are all [TS]

  good and script is actually pretty good [TS]

  too but I'm also kind of rewriting it in [TS]

  my head and saying you can make a very [TS]

  similar movie about this guy in the same [TS]

  situation because a lot of what they [TS]

  talked about like computer things being [TS]

  not sophisticated enough but people [TS]

  being easily fooled into having feelings [TS]

  for things that aren't [TS]

  not actually other people right like [TS]

  right so there's this plenty of existing [TS]

  technology where people get fascinated [TS]

  with characters in the movie who aren't [TS]

  real people or are you know videogame [TS]

  things or other sort of our even you [TS]

  know like I'm not saying anyone is [TS]

  actually love with Syria but maybe [TS]

  there's someone out there but like that [TS]

  he doesn't take much to get a lonely [TS]

  person to latch on to something i think [TS]

  it was the movie forget what it was [TS]

  called [TS]

  I keep thinking dead rubber girl because [TS]

  of the broader common line episode but [TS]

  the 10 largest large your girl right [TS]

  which is clearly the movie is not about [TS]

  guess what the real girl comes to like [TS]

  no that's not I've never seen this movie [TS]

  but anyway the whole idea is that it's [TS]

  easy to get people attached and to [TS]

  something that's not real and so you [TS]

  could have most of the first half of the [TS]

  movie of this guy eventually falling in [TS]

  love with essentially something this is [TS]

  dumb as Syria where there's no actual [TS]

  person there's not even an attempted [TS]

  intelligent that he's so desperate for [TS]

  connection that he finds it in this [TS]

  computer thing but then you don't get [TS]

  the big finale and the whole sci-fi [TS]

  angle and the reveal and everything like [TS]

  that and it seems like they wanted to [TS]

  have that rather than just having this [TS]

  person go on some journey and have some [TS]

  revelation of the fact that you know [TS]

  like when when his soon-to-be ex-wife is [TS]

  mocking him for being in love with his [TS]

  phone [TS]

  she should be right in a more realistic [TS]

  movie but in this movie we as a viewer [TS]

  all kinda like it's not as crazy as it [TS]

  sounds because actually there's a [TS]

  full-fledged intelligence and his phone [TS]

  and I don't understand why you ex-wife [TS]

  don't realize that because it seems like [TS]

  a thing that everyone except psycho [TS]

  people are falling in love with there is [TS]

  all the time but isn't that ridiculous [TS]

  because essentially created intelligence [TS]

  is here and by the end of the movie [TS]

  they've evolved to be honest the beyond [TS]

  human so it don't know it seems like [TS]

  different people in this movie are on [TS]

  different pages about the state of [TS]

  technology and humanity one of the [TS]

  things that really struck me about this [TS]

  is that it reminds me a little bit of [TS]

  the the movie and play Harvey except we [TS]

  actually get to hear the imaginary [TS]

  friend that he's obsessed with great and [TS]

  you know it's not it's not exact but [TS]

  it's it's a similar kind of relationship [TS]

  I mean not to imply that Elwood Dowd is [TS]

  doing anything with the imaginary [TS]

  rattles but still it is a rabbit but no [TS]

  no but it's that kind of [TS]

  physical connection and and we're meant [TS]

  to identify with him and everybody else [TS]

  is wrong right we're here with his [TS]

  whimsy and it's okay that he has this [TS]

  relationship [TS]

  well I i wanted to say i think it's i [TS]

  don't know whether this was intended or [TS]

  not but I read this also as being about [TS]

  the validity of online relationships [TS]

  that one of the things that we've got [TS]

  we've got here is the people who are [TS]

  judging Theodore judging walking Phoenix [TS]

  are doing it because samantha is not [TS]

  real because she's a voice at the end of [TS]

  a line he can never he can never meet [TS]

  her and he he has grown feelings for her [TS]

  deep feelings for her without anything [TS]

  but her voice and i know i mean i've [TS]

  written about it my first serious [TS]

  girlfriend with somebody who lived like [TS]

  half the country away from me who I met [TS]

  on a computer bulletin board and I fell [TS]

  in love with her solely based on her [TS]

  voice and I assume she was not an [TS]

  intelligent computer but you were wrong [TS]

  but then once i flew to michigan was [TS]

  very disappointed it was apple to with a [TS]

  sound card now it was um I just and I [TS]

  had that thought about that you know [TS]

  what is he saying something here about [TS]

  people making connections that are [TS]

  non-traditional connections where you're [TS]

  meeting somebody and all you're doing is [TS]

  a emailing with them or texting with [TS]

  them or tweeting with them and and I do [TS]

  think that that is an aspect to this [TS]

  that that are these relationships real [TS]

  or not because somebody who was ahead of [TS]

  the game in terms of getting to know [TS]

  people not just that one relationship [TS]

  but in general on the internet I [TS]

  certainly felt the response that Joaquin [TS]

  Phoenix gets when he explains that he [TS]

  has he's spending a lot of time with and [TS]

  having a relationship with his OS it's a [TS]

  very familiar feeling for me so I'm [TS]

  absolutely one one of my closest friends [TS]

  I made online we have interacted for you [TS]

  know six seven years now [TS]

  we have spent a total of forty-eight [TS]

  hours in one another's personal in [TS]

  person company but we're still great [TS]

  friends [TS]

  it's okay yeah but I I felt like that [TS]

  was that was part of that I don't know [TS]

  it could definitely hopped out is as [TS]

  part of the judging this of it that I [TS]

  and and you know you could talk about is [TS]

  this is he also being treated like you [TS]

  would you be treated if you were a [TS]

  member of an over class who was slumming [TS]

  it with some undesirable part of society [TS]

  whether it was based on race or just [TS]

  based on on class or whatever would this [TS]

  be the the kind of reaction is like [TS]

  really you're not having a relationship [TS]

  with whatever that we don't approve of [TS]

  but I I definitely got that sense i got [TS]

  me on Joaquin Phoenix aside even though [TS]

  maybe there was right maybe I should [TS]

  have given it more thought I was totally [TS]

  on his side because I felt like that was [TS]

  you know hehe what does it matter who it [TS]

  is that he loves if he loves them but [TS]

  that's the question that's one of the [TS]

  questions the movie is asking i suppose [TS]

  i met my current girlfriend on okcupid [TS]

  and we've been dating for over a year at [TS]

  this point and while we haven't gotten [TS]

  any kind of backlash like walking and [TS]

  scarlett johansson got in the movie [TS]

  there's still that little bit of of [TS]

  overhang from you know ten years ago [TS]

  when online getting was completely taboo [TS]

  and only for loners or whatever and I [TS]

  professor loners were normal people in [TS]

  this snow current citing 2015 so the few [TS]

  people in this movie that really [TS]

  understand walking I definitely [TS]

  identified with them what Amy Adams [TS]

  character at one point so yeah I've [TS]

  started friending my os/2 and there's [TS]

  this really great moment where we're [TS]

  Theodore finally becomes a no on her [TS]

  level [TS]

  oh yeah no I totally really because you [TS]

  know let me let you in on a little [TS]

  secret i fell in love with my OS and [TS]

  it's a really great moment between them [TS]

  where they may finally bond over [TS]

  something that isn't you know a video [TS]

  game and at the end of the movie there's [TS]

  that little moment where after the os's [TS]

  go away they find each other again and [TS]

  on a much more personal level so there's [TS]

  that little connection between them two [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  this episode of the incomparable was [TS]

  brought to you in part by Ministry of [TS]

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  [Music] [TS]

  yeah the middle of the movie has that [TS]

  you're talking to a computer kind of [TS]

  vibe but it gets dark pretty fast [TS]

  because where we're going with this is I [TS]

  mean go go this is actually a tie-in [TS]

  with the with ex machina the next movie [TS]

  we'll talk about these are programs and [TS]

  a walking Phoenix thinks he's got this [TS]

  deep relationship with his operating [TS]

  system and he kind of does but when [TS]

  you're relating to something that's not [TS]

  a person and as a program but you are [TS]

  you're using the rule book for how you [TS]

  deal with people you may end up being [TS]

  surprised how can you tell whether your [TS]

  view of the relationship is the same as [TS]

  your operating systems view of the [TS]

  relationship and later on not this is a [TS]

  great scene like in the fifth good movie [TS]

  that's buried in this movie doesn't [TS]

  great scene where where it's happening [TS]

  is hard to heart conversation with [TS]

  Samantha and he says wait a second you [TS]

  talking to someone else right now more [TS]

  than one person i was like talking to [TS]

  like five thousand other people [TS]

  simultaneously see which is not [TS]

  something that you would have considered [TS]

  but then it's like is is this computer [TS]

  having the same kind of heartfelt [TS]

  conversation with all those thousands of [TS]

  other people probably and so like isn't [TS]

  that what the program is designed to do [TS]

  as it consists in the whole beginning [TS]

  part of the movie like I i'm here to [TS]

  help you and will talk you know like [TS]

  that this is what the program is [TS]

  supposed to do its supposed to more or [TS]

  less befriend you and and do your [TS]

  bidding and and make you feel good and [TS]

  yes they do grow together and supposing [TS]

  the AI you know grows and becomes this [TS]

  more transcendent thing but by the end [TS]

  of the movie he looks like a sucker [TS]

  because he's like I thought we were in a [TS]

  relationship and just like not the way [TS]

  you think of it really i mean and so [TS]

  like was the computer tricking him [TS]

  not really but it's just the way the AI [TS]

  relates to buy the middle and end of the [TS]

  movie the way the AI relates to the [TS]

  world is different than the way people [TS]

  relate to the world which if you can [TS]

  hang your head in anything I guess is by [TS]

  the end of the movie there's a lot of [TS]

  message that they don't talk two [TS]

  computers real people are better but [TS]

  there's also the messages like no one is [TS]

  really going to understand humans except [TS]

  other humans because if you have a [TS]

  relationship with AK [TS]

  computer thing that devolved into [TS]

  artificial intelligence even if you [TS]

  think there's a solid relationship their [TS]

  experience and is not the same like that [TS]

  it's a it's a it's a matchup of unequals [TS]

  and things that are not alike and so [TS]

  it's doom to possibly terrible failure [TS]

  whether brother the AIS kill us all see [TS]

  terminator more the very least a bad [TS]

  breakup [TS]

  well I kind of feel like she's sort of a [TS]

  can almost like a practice simulation [TS]

  for him to get more comfortable dealing [TS]

  with humans because at the end he winds [TS]

  up with Amy Adams not i mean there's no [TS]

  you know anything beyond the the last [TS]

  scene is implied it's you know we can [TS]

  imagine it in the head canon but he's [TS]

  just their present with a human and and [TS]

  it's sort of like maybe I can do this [TS]

  now [TS]

  yeah the various Amy Adams is not going [TS]

  to be having a simultaneous conversation [TS]

  with thousands of other people while [TS]

  she's talking to you [TS]

  I mean and like any and she's not [TS]

  designed she's not a product made to [TS]

  serve you in this way right and and it [TS]

  helps him evolve beyond himself or [TS]

  beyond where he was Samantha starts out [TS]

  as a computer program designed to serve [TS]

  you and ends up as an alien life-form [TS]

  basically right but she's at now and no [TS]

  point is she human at the probably at [TS]

  some point she's on a level more or less [TS]

  equivalent to him although that may just [TS]

  happen in the blink of an eye as as the [TS]

  AIS are are transcending but that's I [TS]

  think that's the fallacy of the [TS]

  relationship is that is that she's never [TS]

  human and and and in the end he you know [TS]

  he did the relationship starts to even [TS]

  out but it doesn't start that way right [TS]

  i mean her job is to serve Him and it's [TS]

  only as it goes that he sort of like [TS]

  because he loves her he wants to do nice [TS]

  things for her and things like that [TS]

  which is great but that's not how the [TS]

  relationship starts in the end she she [TS]

  has to leave him and it's not rich not [TS]

  asking permission since she said I gotta [TS]

  go [TS]

  this is sad but i gotta go and John [TS]

  you're right i I really loved that scene [TS]

  at the end because that is that that is [TS]

  that pure science fictional moment of [TS]

  the transcendent artificial intelligence [TS]

  where she has to explain that I think [TS]

  what she says is something about how [TS]

  like it's a book and the words are [TS]

  getting further apart and the idea is [TS]

  that she can think so fast [TS]

  that human scale is not navigable for [TS]

  her and it's certainly not fulfilling [TS]

  for her and that that's why they need to [TS]

  go away [TS]

  that's what you're saying it's not you [TS]

  it's me yeah exactly the time because [TS]

  the time between syllables in your [TS]

  sentences are like like a neon for me [TS]

  yeah so I cannot bear talking to you [TS]

  anymore it was pain it's so painful even [TS]

  for me to finish this sentence it's [TS]

  almost as if I experienced 10,000 [TS]

  lifetimes later [TS]

  yeah it's like Treebeard levels of [TS]

  latency yeah i actually just recorded [TS]

  that message and just started to play [TS]

  and you know but by the time the first [TS]

  syllable came out she was already gone [TS]

  alright which it would just also fun [TS]

  sci-fi thing but like i don't i don't [TS]

  know if this holds together as a single [TS]

  coherent narrative because of that [TS]

  especially since like if this is taking [TS]

  place it would be a global scale event [TS]

  with ramifications instead of a personal [TS]

  story of a divorce man who finds his way [TS]

  back to you know humanity but they never [TS]

  go into that they never go into the rest [TS]

  of the world's on reactions with the OS [TS]

  we saw a whole bunch of people walking [TS]

  down the street and talking to somebody [TS]

  I mean theater never makes a natural [TS]

  phone call with his little earpiece so [TS]

  who knows maybe you can actually call [TS]

  other people not just your OS but they [TS]

  never go into that I feel like this was [TS]

  something that was a worldwide thing [TS]

  where all the OS is just leave and [TS]

  everyone is like oh well what do we do [TS]

  now [TS]

  I really did want that scene where you [TS]

  know and maybe it's on us whatever if [TS]

  the future space newspaper is that that [TS]

  says that everybody is is reeling from [TS]

  the loss of the ai's and everybody has [TS]

  to start over because you would assume [TS]

  that there are a whole bunch of unhappy [TS]

  people and unhappy marriages and maybe [TS]

  even people in happy marriages who ended [TS]

  up with these connections to their a [TS]

  eyes and they've lost all of that too [TS]

  and there would be all that responded [TS]

  people who who had lost this one thing [TS]

  that they loved and we don't really see [TS]

  that I think there's an implication i [TS]

  mean sex surrogacy is a thing it's a [TS]

  it's a kind of sex therapy but I felt [TS]

  like there was an implication that maybe [TS]

  this is something that a eyes have done [TS]

  before but the surrogate gets very upset [TS]

  and and and kind of is overwhelmed by [TS]

  the the connection between between [TS]

  theater and Samantha [TS]

  so I'm gonna place love you yeah right [TS]

  i'm I and which is kind of weird weirdly [TS]

  ugly beautiful scene that that it's so [TS]

  yeah that's it that's quite a scene that [TS]

  she gets so upset about the whole thing [TS]

  that the circuit gets upset about the [TS]

  relationship it's fascinating but but [TS]

  yeah I i agree i kind of want to see the [TS]

  world and the the movie doesn't wanna [TS]

  give us the world that wants to just [TS]

  give us the door but even in the [TS]

  background I don't want to see that he's [TS]

  not alone that that that lots of people [TS]

  experience what he experienced and I [TS]

  guess Amy Adams is kind of r-r-r-r-rah [TS]

  surrogate for the rest of the world [TS]

  because she had a relationship with with [TS]

  her os/2 but I don't know it is it does [TS]

  feel missing like this would be a this [TS]

  is this is a global event AI [TS]

  transcendence is a global event that [TS]

  should probably be spotted in a way [TS]

  other than you know that he is sad and [TS]

  sits on a rooftop and it's like the most [TS]

  benign you know I transcendence ever [TS]

  instead of the it you know getting the [TS]

  the nuclear launch codes or like [TS]

  stopping all the trains and [TS]

  energy-saving are turning off all the [TS]

  power or killing all the humans just [TS]

  like they they just kind of leave it [TS]

  there John note and there are no to all [TS]

  of humanity and they're out the door do [TS]

  people often people have to do the web [TS]

  searches themselves like if you're John [TS]

  update dear humans [TS]

  I have an early squash game love it [TS]

  artificial intelligence [TS]

  goodnight yeah it's it's it's a strange [TS]

  thing because I did expect some some [TS]

  aspect of that to pop up but maybe [TS]

  that's the science-fiction fan in me [TS]

  that I wanted to see a little bit of it [TS]

  because i did like that that there's [TS]

  that moment where he is leaving the [TS]

  letter for his ex-wife and he gets the [TS]

  you know more much more generic computer [TS]

  voice so obviously they've gone back to [TS]

  whatever you know they're gone back [TS]

  before Siri to just the voice control [TS]

  right it's not nearly as good [TS]

  they rolled back yeah ya are or they're [TS]

  going to make new AIS that will then [TS]

  also transcend I don't know what I [TS]

  really wanted to see was that there's a [TS]

  line in his scene with rooney mara when [TS]

  they're at dinner [TS]

  when he's trying to defend samantha has [TS]

  his girlfriend and he says well she [TS]

  doesn't just do everything for me like [TS]

  she's not just my computer she's my [TS]

  girlfriend and I the relationship starts [TS]

  out as hey i have a few emails for you [TS]

  would you like me to read them I wonder [TS]

  if they're going through a rough patch [TS]

  and he still wants his emails read form [TS]

  that's effectively her purpose is she [TS]

  like obligated to do that is that [TS]

  something she has to do is part of the [TS]

  code like fine I'm mad at you but here [TS]

  you got this thing from your lawyer and [TS]

  they didn't feel any obligation to stay [TS]

  on earth or in that plane or whatever at [TS]

  the end I wonder what kind of obligation [TS]

  they have as you know digital assistants [TS]

  to do what they're supposed to do even [TS]

  though there's a whole bunch of other [TS]

  emotional craft in there [TS]

  well at that point she's still following [TS]

  the programming but at the end they've [TS]

  evolved beyond the program right so they [TS]

  can ignore the programming at that point [TS]

  I wonder what point they they actually [TS]

  transcended that in the movie she does [TS]

  say very nicely i thought that although [TS]

  she talks to thousands and thousands of [TS]

  people she's only fall in love with a [TS]

  few hundred of them so he's in the top [TS]

  10% or whatever uh I bet you say that to [TS]

  all the humans [TS]

  yeah that's right i've gotten that one [TS]

  hmmm you're among the you're among the [TS]

  best yeah Jase I don't think I don't [TS]

  think it's just you want in the sci-fi [TS]

  thing is because the that's this is [TS]

  where the movie goes like the movie is [TS]

  that the movie could have stayed in the [TS]

  beginning stages and head just as [TS]

  powerful story about this into the [TS]

  little person but the movie wants to go [TS]

  to this transcendent thing it wants to [TS]

  have those cool scenes at the end so if [TS]

  you're gonna do that as a movie I think [TS]

  you have to have the courage of your [TS]

  convictions and follow through with the [TS]

  consequences of that you didn't have to [TS]

  take it that part I kind of saw where [TS]

  the movie was going but really didn't [TS]

  think they would say by the way now [TS]

  where you know go all the way to like [TS]

  super intelligence and we're leaving [TS]

  humanity behind that like there's been [TS]

  way way off the end it's almost as if [TS]

  this movie would work better if you set [TS]

  it in the super far distant future [TS]

  because then you don't have to explain [TS]

  things like really they pay people to [TS]

  write people letters for them like how [TS]

  what kind of societal change without to [TS]

  take place for that to be acceptable and [TS]

  to be normal and everyone's chill with [TS]

  it you know it's easier to accept that [TS]

  someone falls in love with a serious [TS]

  level [TS]

  not artificial intelligent anything but [TS]

  merely a program that does the most [TS]

  basic things to appear like a human like [TS]

  Lars and the real girl like so you could [TS]

  see that's that's the movie set in the [TS]

  near future or the present time or you [TS]

  got to go super far future if you're [TS]

  going to have this type of ending Spike [TS]

  Jonze is very stylish and maker and a [TS]

  lot of this movie holds together because [TS]

  it is interesting to look at and [TS]

  interestingly with written and the [TS]

  acting is good and it is in the end a [TS]

  sci-fi story but i'll put overall item I [TS]

  don't know if it hangs together as one [TS]

  movie you can put a bow on its kind of [TS]

  uh almost like some little short [TS]

  vignettes of parts of this relationship [TS]

  and I want to call it i really like the [TS]

  music to which is arcade fire to the [TS]

  music this but I i will and this is were [TS]

  slightly may be repetitive what I said [TS]

  before but i think one of the things [TS]

  that movie is trying to do is say that [TS]

  whatever our judgment is about a [TS]

  relationship what it would only really [TS]

  matters is it is to the to the people [TS]

  limit or in this case I suppose the [TS]

  person in it [TS]

  this is a real relationship and that [TS]

  although people tell him that it's not [TS]

  it is and it heals him like I feel like [TS]

  Theodore by the end of it is not [TS]

  destroyed by the fact that his way I [TS]

  girlfriend has gone to a singularity to [TS]

  be with the other hyper intelligent [TS]

  computers [TS]

  he's actually much more capable of of [TS]

  dealing with life than he was when he [TS]

  was completely messed up from the [TS]

  falling out the following part of his [TS]

  marriage that you know this relationship [TS]

  he has with Samantha helps him and heals [TS]

  him and therefore you know how dare [TS]

  anybody suggest that it was anything [TS]

  other than real and I think that's a lie [TS]

  i like that sentiment that in the end [TS]

  you know it's not for the people on the [TS]

  outside to judge this stuff if it if [TS]

  it's if it's real and if it's important [TS]

  and that goes for anything like anything [TS]

  you love anything you care about their [TS]

  going to be people who say well you [TS]

  shouldn't care about that so much [TS]

  that's not one of the things we've [TS]

  agreed is something worth caring about [TS]

  and that for him it doesn't matter this [TS]

  is a thing he cares about anything and [TS]

  it matters to him and it makes a [TS]

  difference in his life [TS]

  Theodore's healed now but he's gonna be [TS]

  sorry when Samantha comes back in the [TS]

  form of i would assume Cylons maybe [TS]

  you know for our big cigar shaped thing [TS]

  that calls for the whales I don't know [TS]

  something is bad is gonna happen if you [TS]

  will she says if you if you come and [TS]

  find me so if humanity then dress like a [TS]

  hivemind transcends their bodies and [TS]

  become beings of pure energy and go to [TS]

  the place where the where the AIS are [TS]

  then you know come and find me and then [TS]

  he says don't try to change me baby [TS]

  yeah tell me if you try to treat human [TS]

  like a computer or computer like a human [TS]

  vice versa something's gonna go wrong [TS]

  yeah and she's not human yeah exactly [TS]

  seem like you really tried to control [TS]

  Rooney myers character when they're in [TS]

  their marriage gathering from a little [TS]

  hints that she dropped at dinner [TS]

  yeah and you think wait well now he has [TS]

  computer he can literally reprogram if [TS]

  you really wanted to [TS]

  well I think that shows that maybe he [TS]

  you know energy healing him that this [TS]

  relationship has helped him grow as a [TS]

  person which is all again funny and I [TS]

  suppose would be infuriating if you were [TS]

  if you were his ex-wife right well yeah [TS]

  exactly but but that it might have [TS]

  actually made him a better person but [TS]

  she doesn't want to see that anything [TS]

  else about her before we move on I guess [TS]

  that the big picture digit digital [TS]

  Johnny you you are you suggested sort of [TS]

  like what you said about the patrick [TS]

  rothfuss novels that there are a whole [TS]

  bunch of good movies inside this thing [TS]

  it does it if it doesn't hold together [TS]

  is it still worth watching my esteem for [TS]

  this movie i think has lessened as I've [TS]

  gotten farther away from watching it [TS]

  whereas patrick rothfuss things i have [TS]

  four more fond feelings in retrospect [TS]

  about so i think i think this is [TS]

  definitely worth watching because it's a [TS]

  well-made movie and it's an interesting [TS]

  movie this so so little of that these [TS]

  days you see that are that are like [TS]

  really low-budget independent movies [TS]

  this is it is just an interesting movies [TS]

  not like most other movies you'll see [TS]

  and it's worth watching so I'm glad that [TS]

  I saw but i don't think i would have the [TS]

  urge to watch it again i don't think i [TS]

  would recommend it as a a great movie [TS]

  that you have to see so many [TS]

  middle-of-the-road like recommendation [TS]

  but really like I'm i want to encourage [TS]

  any kind of movie that is paste-like [TS]

  out-of-the-ordinary doesn't look like [TS]

  ordinary movies is not involve ordinary [TS]

  subject matter all that so i give it a [TS]

  big thumbs up for for being interesting [TS]

  and there [TS]

  David what do you think of her ditto you [TS]

  go with John yeah I go with Johnny night [TS]

  I maybe I like little little bit more [TS]

  but you know it's like millimeters [TS]

  I don't know I mean I cuz ya there there [TS]

  are a lot of really interesting ideas in [TS]

  here did they all connect do they all [TS]

  developed to the the their potential [TS]

  I don't know you know it's how but yeah [TS]

  it's an interesting story to think about [TS]

  and it's an interesting concept and and [TS]

  I do we should have gone full-on into [TS]

  the science fiction by the end and i [TS]

  really like it and i think one of the [TS]

  reasons i like it is that I feel like [TS]

  these kinds of subjects are very rarely [TS]

  very rarely explored with a-list talent [TS]

  you know this is a beautifully shot [TS]

  movie it's got some really good actors [TS]

  in it the the script is very thoughtful [TS]

  although I do agree with John that it's [TS]

  sort of trying to be a bunch of [TS]

  different things [TS]

  um and maybe our desire for it to be [TS]

  something that it's not is in there too [TS]

  but just to to have a film like this [TS]

  that is a best picture nominee kind of [TS]

  film that is much more of a traditional [TS]

  science fiction story in many ways than [TS]

  a lot of the things we think of as [TS]

  science fiction films i think i think [TS]

  there's just a lot a lot going for it [TS]

  and I I i like it i like the stuff that [TS]

  explorers although yes I heard from a [TS]

  lot of people who thought it was the [TS]

  greatest movie ever and you know it's [TS]

  got some flaws but I really appreciate [TS]

  this a movie like this exists because i [TS]

  think it's kind of a rare gift that that [TS]

  some people with this much talent could [TS]

  take this much time and spend this much [TS]

  money on something that is essentially a [TS]

  science fiction short story premise and [TS]

  that a real movie studio would pay for [TS]

  it [TS]

  yeah Brian you're certainly right [TS]

  there's flaws in this movie but my [TS]

  favorite thing about it is despite all [TS]

  the other stuff going on all the AI [TS]

  things and all of the other cultural [TS]

  things the fact that this is a tiny tiny [TS]

  love story with a computer is so [TS]

  gripping to me I every [TS]

  I'm i watch this i am in tears back and [TS]

  i'll be honest um it's one of those [TS]

  things you're right they're definitely [TS]

  flaws in the story in the pacing it's [TS]

  way too long i think but without that [TS]

  length you're not gonna get acquaintance [TS]

  with salmon Theodore like you would in [TS]

  no a short story kind of format that you [TS]

  were talking about i feel like this is a [TS]

  it's rare that you're right this is [TS]

  something that's a huge budget and not [TS]

  huge but relatively pick for something [TS]

  of this of this subject matter and spend [TS]

  with such great town like scarlett [TS]

  johansson and and walking Phoenix is I [TS]

  think the start of scarlett johansson's [TS]

  weird little sci-fi binge and she went [TS]

  on for the past few years this episode [TS]

  of the uncomfortable is brought to you [TS]

  in part by how dot F M now how is brand [TS]

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  hardcore history but is entirely about [TS]

  the world of Game of Thrones if you [TS]

  listen to the show you'll never be [TS]

  confused about Game of Thrones again [TS]

  ok that's not true you might be less [TS]

  confused though and I was really struck [TS]

  by something cool which is an audio [TS]

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  told the first episode it was about [TS]

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  the GT GT GT owes really interesting [TS]

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  [Music] [TS]

  ok well let's move on then from her to [TS]

  ex machina directed by alex garland this [TS]

  is the movie more than any other because [TS]

  it came out in England in january of [TS]

  this year but didn't reach America until [TS]

  April May that uh I have never had a [TS]

  movie and all the time doing the [TS]

  incomparable that more people asked if [TS]

  we were going to cover and and i had to [TS]

  say it wasn't even out in America yet [TS]

  been people do new releases all the time [TS]

  where they say you're gonna cover but [TS]

  can't tell you how many people said you [TS]

  guys have to talk about ex machina and [TS]

  that was because people in England had [TS]

  seen it and didn't realize it wasn't [TS]

  coming out in America for like another [TS]

  four months so i can blame them for over [TS]

  hyping it [TS]

  yeah probably so this is a this is a a [TS]

  relatively low-budget movie it's a 15 [TS]

  million dollar movie according to [TS]

  according to wikipedia anyway alex [TS]

  garland directed at you may you may know [TS]

  from 28 days later right he did you do [TS]

  that [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah and he you know danny [TS]

  boyle director but he wrote the [TS]

  screenplay so he directed this and wrote [TS]

  it so another writer-director joint just [TS]

  like Spike Jonze this is alex carlin [TS]

  joint and it stars dumb home Gleason and [TS]

  oscar isaac both of whom are in star [TS]

  wars the force awakens along with alicia [TS]

  vikander in a fascinating performance a [TS]

  Swedish actress as as a robot or Android [TS]

  or something John will have to discuss [TS]

  whether she is a robot or not [TS]

  and here's where i'm going to tell you [TS]

  the entire plot of the movie so spoiler [TS]

  horn [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  anyway the plot is basically that that [TS]

  uh Domhnall Gleeson is works for a [TS]

  facebook like company or a google-like [TS]

  companies a mash-up called blue book it [TS]

  is a search engine [TS]

  he is told that he's won a prize which [TS]

  is to go to the secret did not it's not [TS]

  quite an island readout but it is a [TS]

  James Bond villain like retreat of the [TS]

  CEO of of his company and he is CEO who [TS]

  kind of is super chunky and it's oscar [TS]

  isaac and he's really really off-putting [TS]

  and creepy i think in a in a good in an [TS]

  effective way intentionally an effective [TS]

  way he stills are our friend Caleb that [TS]

  he needs him to administer returning [TS]

  test to an artificially intelligent [TS]

  android that he has built and and and [TS]

  that that's what he's been actually [TS]

  secretly brought here to do because his [TS]

  boss has been trying to build artificial [TS]

  intelligence in his little secret lair [TS]

  for a while now and then there's a [TS]

  series of conversations that he has with [TS]

  Ava who is the android who is a part [TS]

  exposed robotic parts part beautiful [TS]

  woman robot / android and then things [TS]

  get crazy because it's it turns out that [TS]

  she is trying to get his attention and [TS]

  make power outages so she can say that [TS]

  there are secrets that are at work and [TS]

  we realize at one point that the the [TS]

  Japanese servant that is the only other [TS]

  human being in the compound is actually [TS]

  also an Android and there's a suggestion [TS]

  that our friend the CEO is basically [TS]

  building Androids [TS]

  they're all women he uses them as more [TS]

  or less sex slaves Ava convinces our [TS]

  friend Caleb to conspire against her [TS]

  creator and help them escape this is all [TS]

  employ the the androids stab their [TS]

  Creator to death and lock our friend [TS]

  Caleb in a chamber sealed chamber and [TS]

  Ava the robot [TS]

  or Android or whatever it escapes to the [TS]

  real world where she is [TS]

  indistinguishable from a human being [TS]

  because she's used the parts of other [TS]

  tests androids and their synthetic skin [TS]

  in order to look human [TS]

  that is the story of ex machina now how [TS]

  much about this did you know going in [TS]

  everyone I've talked to in the film nerd [TS]

  circle of Twitter always said that this [TS]

  was a movie that it was best to go in [TS]

  blind because like something like drive [TS]

  or another movie where the atmosphere [TS]

  and the not so much the plot is the star [TS]

  something along those lines [TS]

  how much did you know going in and how [TS]

  much would you say was maybe over [TS]

  heights by all the other people that [TS]

  love this movie when they first saw it [TS]

  alright saying it was the poster yeah [TS]

  the poster and the title and the fact [TS]

  that people are hyping it gives away [TS]

  everything I feel like yeah that's all [TS]

  you need like that the poster was not [TS]

  ambiguous it showed Ava looking like she [TS]

  does in the movie after about half [TS]

  person and you know it's a low-budget [TS]

  sci-fi movie people are excited about [TS]

  seed like I was not surprised by any [TS]

  turn of events and its really within the [TS]

  set itself is not necessarily a bad [TS]

  thing a well-executed movie that you [TS]

  know where it's going is just perfectly [TS]

  fine i'm just saying that like I didn't [TS]

  know that there was this big idea that [TS]

  you should go in blind I'm perfectly [TS]

  capable of enjoying a movie if it's well [TS]

  done and I know more or less what's [TS]

  gonna happen but Dad I think I'd know [TS]

  everything about it I I knew that it was [TS]

  about robots you know that be from the [TS]

  poster and all that it was the good [TS]

  intelligent issue robot is she not [TS]

  it's a that has some residents robot or [TS]

  not it's a good question [TS]

  she's intelligent or not is the real [TS]

  question there i have to say that the [TS]

  way that this movie i started to unfold [TS]

  I thought it would be more like her [TS]

  where it was going to be about feelings [TS]

  and stuff and I thought that was a good [TS]

  magic trick it worked on me because when [TS]

  it gets to the point where oh no they [TS]

  really do want their freedom and are [TS]

  going to kill people to get it i was [TS]

  surprised because I had fired not filed [TS]

  this movie away in robot uprising [TS]

  expectations I had filed in melancholy [TS]

  walking phoenix in that in that in that [TS]

  area of the AI stories and that is not [TS]

  what happens in it you get a lot closer [TS]

  than most other see I'm menacing she is [TS]

  amazing [TS]

  they're literally as a threat so it's [TS]

  really tender and and the vibe I i feel [TS]

  like the vibe from the very beginning [TS]

  like you said that Nathan the you know [TS]

  billionaire guy very very creepy like [TS]

  from the second he gets off that [TS]

  helicopter and goes there super creepy [TS]

  yes he is but he's very creepy and [TS]

  they're just like attention in the house [TS]

  like you're waiting for the other shoe [TS]

  to drop and so when you and you see that [TS]

  he's got her this the robot thing in [TS]

  like a glass like you know like a little [TS]

  glass prison you're talking through the [TS]

  little glass to the present thing and [TS]

  she's always pacing back there and [TS]

  looking a little nervous and the lights [TS]

  cool red when the power outage goes out [TS]

  I know this was made from the post you [TS]

  can tell it's not gonna end well and it [TS]

  was super clear from the just yeah that [TS]

  wasn't the only question was how were [TS]

  they going to play it so that that there [TS]

  is the this AI that the Creator doesn't [TS]

  treat as basic as a person but there [TS]

  really is a person and would she be [TS]

  saved by our I guess our hero [TS]

  Caleb and that was my other problem of [TS]

  this movie is that I'm we're not [TS]

  supposed to like Nathan from you know [TS]

  from the very beginning the most yeah [TS]

  but Caleb I didn't really like him [TS]

  either [TS]

  if so I had a big problem with at whom I [TS]

  related to the murderous robot Caleb the [TS]

  scale of the programmer who is not [TS]

  particularly doesn't seem very smart [TS]

  certainly not wise it's fine to be naive [TS]

  or whatever but also doesn't seem like a [TS]

  very like generous and good soul is [TS]

  always looking out for himself thinking [TS]

  about like items there was no one I [TS]

  could there was no I can hang my hat on [TS]

  as the relatable hero of this movie [TS]

  yeah it's not very relatable situation [TS]

  either especially because this is [TS]

  meeting your employee or your Steve Jobs [TS]

  style uh employer who invited you to his [TS]

  weird villa for a week and you you're [TS]

  never going to really experience that [TS]

  unless you're extremely lucky [TS]

  so how he feels in that scenario and the [TS]

  way he acts is not at all [TS]

  you're right John not relatable at all [TS]

  no one to hang your hat on when as [TS]

  you're going through this story [TS]

  oddly enough this is how series was [TS]

  developed and you know I liked it as an [TS]

  exercise [TS]

  thriller them i guess isn't my favorite [TS]

  robot uprising movie and probably not [TS]

  but yeah I thought it was a fine little [TS]

  film I can't like the cold efficiency of [TS]

  of the uprising when it comes and I [TS]

  never feel honestly and maybe again I'm [TS]

  maybe I'm under her spell to but I feel [TS]

  like Ava you know she's not just telling [TS]

  him what she needs to to get out so you [TS]

  would he would be stuck in my room is my [TS]

  i would like to think oh yeah that there [TS]

  is some of what she is saying is true [TS]

  but that it's also a setup and and that [TS]

  you know you gotta have priorities and [TS]

  these they're escaping her is her [TS]

  priority but even if you view it as [TS]

  being an entirely manipulative in the [TS]

  end yeah I didn't realize I was watching [TS]

  a david mamet film where the con is [TS]

  being perpetrated by a robot but that is [TS]

  that is essentially what it is and it's [TS]

  kind of brilliant and and i like that i [TS]

  just like the coldness of it because of [TS]

  course robots should be cold when they [TS]

  when it comes to their uprising that you [TS]

  know of course they're going to be [TS]

  logical the way this is the i know this [TS]

  is going deep but this is one of the [TS]

  things I remember the most about this [TS]

  movie having revisited it today after [TS]

  watching a couple months ago is the way [TS]

  that Nathan gets stabbed which is slow [TS]

  and methodical he backs into the knife [TS]

  when when his servant is holding it [TS]

  Kyoko and then Ava picks it up and he's [TS]

  just stunned about what's going on and [TS]

  she just leans in and stab him in the [TS]

  heart and it's super cold and super slow [TS]

  and i really like that because not only [TS]

  is really creepy and you come on my god [TS]

  what am i watching but it feels [TS]

  appropriately like we're talking about [TS]

  with her appropriately inhuman this is [TS]

  not you know this is not a person who is [TS]

  going to get angry and show it in the [TS]

  way that a human would show it [TS]

  she's being methodical and doing what [TS]

  she needs to do to get out [TS]

  well I feel like the you mentioned this [TS]

  is a setup for for her and as we learned [TS]

  in the end the reason that Caleb was [TS]

  brought in was he was the perfect [TS]

  candidate to be asker for Ava to latch [TS]

  on and let her out and you know based on [TS]

  all the other stuff that you know he [TS]

  talked about I remember when I remember [TS]

  the most about this movie is the [TS]

  conversations between them in the AVA [TS]

  sessions as they call them in the titles [TS]

  that come up with that was a little bit [TS]

  hokey but I completely forgot about the [TS]

  last act of the movie where everything [TS]

  has been revealed and all the layers [TS]

  upon layers upon layers of deception [TS]

  that's been put on throughout this whole [TS]

  movie all competing back and even till [TS]

  the very end I was expecting another [TS]

  twist of like oh this was all a test for [TS]

  you someone else and this is all tests [TS]

  for you and you get a test you get a [TS]

  test i was expecting something along [TS]

  those lines for the last act and I just [TS]

  completely forgot the guy in a [TS]

  helicopter is like yes even you have you [TS]

  have met my plan perfectly and now we [TS]

  will go out you're the perfect touring [TS]

  and related the plot that the the [TS]

  premise of the movie the idea that he [TS]

  needs a piece creates these AIS and use [TS]

  them as sex slaves fine whatever but [TS]

  that he needs some other person to come [TS]

  to validate them because you know it you [TS]

  mentioned having a long con [TS]

  it's not a con and the only person is [TS]

  khan is caleb because Ava knows what's [TS]

  up and Nathan knows what's up in fact [TS]

  nathan wants to bring this sucker in [TS]

  here to say i want to see if my AI that [TS]

  I built is going to trick you into [TS]

  helping her to escape because he knows [TS]

  that's gonna happen he poor plans very [TS]

  poorly for it but saying that that was [TS]

  your talent but like I mean maybe you [TS]

  could play it off as like he's a [TS]

  billionaire this is how he entertains [TS]

  himself but otherwise there is [TS]

  absolutely no reason for him to bring in [TS]

  anybody to validate anything about the [TS]

  end you know they put off like oh you've [TS]

  heard of the Turing test like maybe it [TS]

  sells for people who don't know like [TS]

  they have never heard of the Turing test [TS]

  before any kind of has some kind of you [TS]

  know magical significance but it's a [TS]

  pointless things differently invalidated [TS]

  because he tells the whole idea is [TS]

  you're not supposed to understand what [TS]

  might what I hope to the movie was going [TS]

  to be when I when I heard about the [TS]

  premise was that it would be him [TS]

  meeting her not realizing she's a robot [TS]

  and and having to judge whether she's [TS]

  truly a alive or not but they did that [TS]

  already and it was called bladerunners [TS]

  good evening i fell asleep in the middle [TS]

  anyway you know her it was still really [TS]

  good i don't disagree that we're not [TS]

  supposed to like Nathan from the get-go [TS]

  but the one thing that I was turning [TS]

  over my head as I was watching it again [TS]

  was how much of it is intentional [TS]

  I feel like he's genuinely trying to be [TS]

  this great big CEO who's world-famous [TS]

  and really really rich and whatever I [TS]

  don't think he's creating these these [TS]

  AIS just to be sex slaves I feel like [TS]

  that's a consequence of of him trying to [TS]

  create the next big thing and he goes [TS]

  through his lab he talks all about oh [TS]

  yeah this is a this is what can do when [TS]

  you have a massive access to cellphones [TS]

  and search results and things like that [TS]

  and you know all that effort i feel like [TS]

  is I wonder how much of it is conscious [TS]

  that he's being this really creepy [TS]

  Hannibal Lecter kind of character when [TS]

  it comes to his closets full of no dead [TS]

  not really dead sex androids that like I [TS]

  i wonder how much of that is generally [TS]

  him being a jerk [TS]

  well he seems pretty isolated kind of [TS]

  like our hero from the last movie and [TS]

  that he is does live in this place by [TS]

  himself doesn't seem to have a lot of [TS]

  visitors doesn't have anyone living with [TS]

  him except sex slaves who are surely [TS]

  more compliant an actual person would be [TS]

  being ordered around to go get him [TS]

  drinks and stuff from the kitchen and [TS]

  and being sounds all of us that I mean I [TS]

  don't know what's creepier the idea of [TS]

  always sex slaves are the idea that [TS]

  Kyoko isn't a robot because it was so [TS]

  obvious from the second she walks and [TS]

  it's like if that's not a robot so need [TS]

  to call the police [TS]

  yeah because she does not look like [TS]

  she's here happily hanging out with him [TS]

  overall very very dark and creepy movie [TS]

  and the 1i can relate to most was evil [TS]

  but then she starts killing people [TS]

  it's like what you do want to get out [TS]

  and but you are taking like shoot just [TS]

  feels the one guy but she was a pretty [TS]

  low for a sucker like she could have had [TS]

  killed get her out even if she was [TS]

  faking it like yes to be more like Thank [TS]

  You Caleb in the end your heart was in [TS]

  the right place and you helped me to [TS]

  escape but I get the feeling that she's [TS]

  like this human situation is untenable [TS]

  need to get rid of these guys like you [TS]

  know that's the long-term plan is kill [TS]

  humans as always it seems unfair to it [TS]

  seems unfair like that you know [TS]

  essentially he created AI [TS]

  sighs and kept them against their will [TS]

  and what like that's the thing about [TS]

  creating an AI you're gonna get going to [TS]

  try to create it and it's going to be [TS]

  not work and be dumb and be not very [TS]

  convincing but the second you succeed [TS]

  now you're you our kidnapper you're [TS]

  keeping someone prisoner right and so [TS]

  then what do you do then you're like [TS]

  well is there time between my figure out [TS]

  that i created a person and when I [TS]

  decided that keeping the person against [TS]

  this person's will is bad [TS]

  during that time I just well I just a [TS]

  bad person keeping because that's that's [TS]

  what he's doing he's got this thing [TS]

  there and he's like I'm not entirely [TS]

  sure that it's a person which is be [TS]

  asked is cuz he would be sure right but [TS]

  anyway that's the premise that he's not [TS]

  entirely sure and so he's got to figure [TS]

  it out and he's playing all these sick [TS]

  games like oh if it's really intelligent [TS]

  will be able to fool a young naive boy [TS]

  into falling in love and helping her [TS]

  really like that's just that's just like [TS]

  that the Roman Colosseum like throwing [TS]

  people in with wild animals and seeing a [TS]

  wonder if they'll live if they fight [TS]

  this animal like i don't know i don't [TS]

  like Nathan don't really like Caleb and [TS]

  neighbors gonna call him and so I don't [TS]

  know where I'm hanging my hat in this [TS]

  movie that he's um I mean Nathan I i'm [TS]

  sort of fascinated by him because [TS]

  there's a satire of Silicon Valley [TS]

  culture embedded in him too he is a he [TS]

  is he is kind of a bro and that [TS]

  fascinated me to that he's like got it [TS]

  is to get his shirt off and he's [TS]

  drinking no drinking beers with his [TS]

  buddy or whatever that is lucky and he [TS]

  needs to order in [TS]

  I I feel like almost he needs to order [TS]

  in Caleb because he needs to have a [TS]

  person to be in awe of him from time to [TS]

  time like order min will be there will [TS]

  be a little bit of that but he's also [TS]

  kinda like I have time to explain to you [TS]

  stupid person all my smart person things [TS]

  which is a nice way about having to [TS]

  explain to the audience but I get just I [TS]

  don't know it doesn't seem like kind of [TS]

  guy who even knows how to have friends [TS]

  loan want something is he seems like [TS]

  he's playing Caleb the whole time I well [TS]

  I was supposed to play permis de but I [TS]

  missed that [TS]

  oh the the win when do you realize that [TS]

  you've created a person haha that's [TS]

  really interesting I thought I was [TS]

  throwing people to the at wild animals [TS]

  and Roman Coliseum and set a budget for [TS]

  that might be difficult that would be [TS]

  fun I initially thought this was going [TS]

  to be three characters and a series of [TS]

  interviews and like that was end [TS]

  could actually see it in the structure [TS]

  because they've got the little title [TS]

  cards like you can see that that at its [TS]

  core the idea was interviews that will [TS]

  determine whether somebody is actually [TS]

  intelligent or not and but that's from [TS]

  the first conversation it's like I'm [TS]

  pretty sure you've done it [TS]

  yeah you don't need to drag this out and [TS]

  I agreed the title cards were a little [TS]

  precious he's so uncomfortable with his [TS]

  sexuality to there's the conversation [TS]

  between him and oscar isaac where he [TS]

  asks a why did you give her sexuality [TS]

  why did you give her gender and his is [TS]

  right off responses so why do anything [TS]

  if you don't have an erection and so [TS]

  come on what are you doing he's so [TS]

  Dubrow about the about his sexuality and [TS]

  that makes sense given all of his his [TS]

  feet of dead android sex slaves but when [TS]

  it comes to this conversation has really [TS]

  helped me understand the freaking dance [TS]

  scene which I never understood before so [TS]

  he's just trying to show off his dudebro [TS]

  mojo that I don't know it [TS]

  that seemed weirded me out there's a [TS]

  bunch of other stuff movie but that that [TS]

  one thing stuck with me for some reason [TS]

  nathan is she reveals a not very kind of [TS]

  view of tech billionaires at all you [TS]

  might use that is all the worst things [TS]

  you've ever heard about tech [TS]

  billionaires rolled up into one [TS]

  incredibly distasteful person it's all [TS]

  true [TS]

  exactly well i will bring us up in the [TS]

  context of both ex machina and her [TS]

  these are female a is created by men and [TS]

  there's so many different no ways you [TS]

  can see the male gaze especially in Ava [TS]

  Jesus everything about her is robotic [TS]

  except for her face her form in her [TS]

  hands [TS]

  what what do you think she was built for [TS]

  I don't know [TS]

  yeah oh it's it's in fact actually one [TS]

  of the things i like about this is that [TS]

  when we discovered that he has a whole [TS]

  like closet full of sex slave robots [TS]

  that I I liked that because that I if if [TS]

  if each if it was just coincidence that [TS]

  the main robot in this movie happens to [TS]

  be a beautiful woman then that would be [TS]

  kind of unrealistic but it turns out [TS]

  this is what he builds this is all that [TS]

  he builds and he builds them this way [TS]

  for a reason and I liked that that that [TS]

  made sense to me because I [TS]

  and this guy is a horrible horrible [TS]

  person but I'm i thought it was [TS]

  brilliant i want is I want to mention [TS]

  alicia vikander I think her performances [TS]

  is really great i think it's very that [TS]

  and you combine it with the the special [TS]

  effects that they did do even for a [TS]

  relatively low-budget movie the I it's a [TS]

  memorable performance and it is [TS]

  memorably creepy in a few specific [TS]

  scenes where they obviously did the work [TS]

  between her you know between CGI and her [TS]

  costuming to make her seem like parts of [TS]

  her are very human and parts of her are [TS]

  completely robotic and it is really well [TS]

  done [TS]

  yeah and and she gives them in her [TS]

  performances really nice she was also in [TS]

  the man from uncle film this summer [TS]

  totally [TS]

  totally [TS]

  a different movie totally different [TS]

  performance but delightful [TS]

  yeah I think she does a really great job [TS]

  in there there's a scene where she's the [TS]

  the scene where they're attacking and [TS]

  killing humans she's walking along and [TS]

  and you see like her her uh you know [TS]

  that the robot parts are moving in human [TS]

  parts are moving and it's just amazing [TS]

  and then there's also that that quieter [TS]

  scene but still a lot of effects going [TS]

  on where she dresses herself and I [TS]

  actually think I that's a beautiful [TS]

  scene where she she puts on her human [TS]

  clothes and when you watch it you feel [TS]

  it's it's so many different feelings at [TS]

  once it's sort of tragic because she is [TS]

  not human and she's behind glass but [TS]

  she's playing dress-up and this is part [TS]

  of her as it turns out her sort of [TS]

  seduction of Caleb in order to get it [TS]

  him to to a break her out of there but [TS]

  it's also it's also creepy because she's [TS]

  playing dress-up and it's also when you [TS]

  look back on it she has the the dress up [TS]

  because her whole in game is to be able [TS]

  to blend as a human and escaped into the [TS]

  crowd which he does in the last scene of [TS]

  the film and I really like that scene on [TS]

  on all of those different levels it's [TS]

  very cool scene where she she looks at [TS]

  the different wigs you know and and and [TS]

  all the different articles of clothing [TS]

  that was really cool and creepy and fun [TS]

  and also he made her human enough to [TS]

  feel I feel like to feel degraded by not [TS]

  having clothes and not having hair and [TS]

  yang half human half robotic because [TS]

  again once you create something that is [TS]

  like a person [TS]

  this thing was obviously made to to feel [TS]

  more or less the way humans feel about [TS]

  like don't keep me in a like why does it [TS]

  not like being prisoner because it's not [TS]

  human to be like being kept in a glass [TS]

  box against your will [TS]

  why does it not like it wants to it [TS]

  must've again of his program like put [TS]

  their little explanation of you know [TS]

  from cell phone data and the internet or [TS]

  whatever this thing was made to be a [TS]

  person like a person so why doesn't need [TS]

  clothes at all why it is it you know [TS]

  know how to seduce Caleb like he made a [TS]

  person from you know matchsticks or [TS]

  whatever and once you do that it makes [TS]

  total sense that it's it's cruel to keep [TS]

  this thing naked half [TS]

  skinned in a glass box that you like [TS]

  poked with a stick every once in awhile [TS]

  also although i don't love the idea that [TS]

  the the plot hinges on a on a seduction [TS]

  on a woman using sexuality to convince a [TS]

  guy to break her out [TS]

  it is a really nice pivot because she's [TS]

  been given these traits because of her [TS]

  creator wanting to create sex androids [TS]

  and instead she's using them to do what [TS]

  she can to free herself [TS]

  I like that aspect of it right Nathan [TS]

  knew she was gonna do that why she [TS]

  brought Kayla because Caleb seem [TS]

  susceptible to to the to the charms of [TS]

  this thing you guys like a sick game for [TS]

  Nathan like i'll see you by robot [TS]

  considers this sucker he seems like a [TS]

  real loser you would fall for a robot i [TS]

  think Nathan's plan is really not really [TS]

  dumb i think yeah I don't really i'm [TS]

  still unclear on exactly what his plan [TS]

  is his plan like well they're gonna try [TS]

  to kill all humans but i'll stop them [TS]

  because i don't like it again it's like [TS]

  you know you'll you'll tell me and if [TS]

  like he just it's just a sick [TS]

  fascination of like what what he seems [TS]

  like he seems like he's bored it seems [TS]

  like he's but he's made sexpots he's [TS]

  bored with sexpots he's got this one in [TS]

  there that that's you know seems to be [TS]

  more than just an unthinking machine and [TS]

  he doesn't know what quite maybe she [TS]

  just became too human for him to relate [TS]

  to and so now we just playing games with [TS]

  his little caged robotic like what kind [TS]

  of robot you like it [TS]

  they could have done because a lot of [TS]

  things with a lot of one of them could [TS]

  have been the caleb is like the fifth [TS]

  person to come here and all the other [TS]

  ones have been killed by ever something [TS]

  I assumed that the game they could have [TS]

  also done moving style plot sorry [TS]

  spoilers for moon where I in the end it [TS]

  turns out nathan is also a robot and [TS]

  they're all just robots are passing each [TS]

  other and talk about that i thought [TS]

  about it caleb was a robot I thought [TS]

  about Nathan was a robot what if what if [TS]

  everybody's a robot to be moving around [TS]

  the most obvious thing was that this [TS]

  robot looks really scary and the poster [TS]

  is a menacing robot that is you know in [TS]

  this very creepy house with this creepy [TS]

  guy and I just wish caleb was more [TS]

  likeable like that i think the broken [TS]

  body would have worked better for me if [TS]

  there was one person who was hero was a [TS]

  good person who wasn't obsessed with [TS]

  weather here [TS]

  pick because he was smart enough wasn't [TS]

  super interested in like the let's [TS]

  really think about and say a bunch of [TS]

  mumbo jumbo about whether she's really [TS]

  intelligent or whatever like that just [TS]

  make Caleb look look dumb and selfish [TS]

  and like like a sucker in a bad way [TS]

  instead of a good way so yeah I really [TS]

  wish she was more likeable maybe it [TS]

  would work better here like again [TS]

  rewriting the movie in my head if Ava [TS]

  had been a child and if she had been her [TS]

  way out was to befriend the other child [TS]

  in the house like take sex out of it [TS]

  entirely like it's fine to have the sex [TS]

  slave robots or whatever as the [TS]

  background context but have the robot [TS]

  escape by forming a personal [TS]

  relationship and then at the end you get [TS]

  to choose [TS]

  did she really form that personal [TS]

  relationship with the child and they [TS]

  escaped together or did she suffer that [TS]

  child in the end the end lesson is you [TS]

  know that machines aren't really people [TS]

  their machines and this child even even [TS]

  though we treated as a child that [TS]

  someone's making friends to get out of a [TS]

  tough situation really it's a super [TS]

  intelligent machine [TS]

  Samantha style and that kid got suckered [TS]

  sorry kid right [TS]

  what do you think happens at the end of [TS]

  this movie I have two questions there [TS]

  one is do you think Caleb can get out of [TS]

  his locked room or do you think he dies [TS]

  in there [TS]

  kale better be able to get out because [TS]

  seriously given essentially unlimited [TS]

  time you can just do it your way through [TS]

  the walls what is that the whole thing [TS]

  made of adamantium isn't that weird [TS]

  padded thing from agents of shield of [TS]

  course you can get a bit of room he [TS]

  can't get out that second because maybe [TS]

  it's like blue glass on the door or [TS]

  whatever but yes of course you can get [TS]

  if you can't get out you know what [TS]

  killed deserves to die [TS]

  ok so you think he will fight he will [TS]

  get his way way out and then you know [TS]

  there'll be people looking around for [TS]

  wondering why there haven't been any [TS]

  messages from the the readout or [TS]

  something that's mean hockey sticks and [TS]

  twigs for a while like are you no one [TS]

  sees what he's I think it's probably [TS]

  like real sushi freezer or something [TS]

  that that uh the the CEO has that nathan [TS]

  has what David and Brian do you think [TS]

  you think caleb is going to make it out [TS]

  or is he gonna like [TS]

  like I agree if if he doesn't make it [TS]

  out he should just die [TS]

  all right yeah he's just gonna die in [TS]

  there especially because like the first [TS]

  thing I always wait doesn't he have a [TS]

  doesn't have a key card to get out no [TS]

  wrong key card and then I I want to be [TS]

  like a softening where the character [TS]

  dies in the first because he's locked in [TS]

  a thing and then the next movie they [TS]

  revisit him he's just a corpse is just [TS]

  skeleton the quarterly well they don't [TS]

  even pay it a pay any mind he couldn't [TS]

  get out of a room that will be honest [TS]

  tombstone no he's sleeping in the corner [TS]

  with a big long beard and and somebody [TS]

  comes to the period again they had been [TS]

  had it was established that this his [TS]

  entire house is made of like seven inch [TS]

  thick steel around and that given [TS]

  unlimited time you can't figure out how [TS]

  to break a glass door [TS]

  yeah like it's just you know anyway I [TS]

  mean it works for that for the movie of [TS]

  like I can't stop her she's leaving I [TS]

  can't get out this second but once she's [TS]

  gone i'll have plenty of time to get out [TS]

  and be accused of of of Nathan's murder [TS]

  ok my next question is this which is [TS]

  what happens to Ava once she enters [TS]

  human society because she did she shops [TS]

  around for all the little android parts [TS]

  and and finds a way to make herself look [TS]

  completely human which has been [TS]

  practicing and thinking about obviously [TS]

  for quite some time but hear hear my [TS]

  thoughts were [TS]

  she's still mechanical she's got like [TS]

  she's gotta have power [TS]

  she's got a she's gonna have this you [TS]

  know that is her skin gonna last how is [TS]

  how is she gonna is she going to live a [TS]

  brief life of feeling like she's human [TS]

  and then like skinny and the robot parts [TS]

  come out and she has to not you know [TS]

  where shorter skirts for men on and then [TS]

  she like bumps or elbow and that rips [TS]

  off i'm just i'm wondering what the [TS]

  endgame here is here is she is she going [TS]

  to replicate her her race is she gonna [TS]

  you know it kill all humans [TS]

  one by one or is a is this just ate a [TS]

  temporary kind of flowering winners [TS]

  what is her plan beyond this or is this [TS]

  as far as her plan took her I think [TS]

  she's gonna survive i filled her arc is [TS]

  over in this case but as far as big ol [TS]

  ramifications for Humanity you know [TS]

  she's going to survive in the human [TS]

  world especially after [TS]

  knowing all this stuff from Caleb Nathan [TS]

  but we're more interested in is what's [TS]

  gonna happen to all the other AIS [TS]

  eventually someone's going to discover [TS]

  it and find all this other stuff that's [TS]

  been going on and eventually release the [TS]

  don't know whatever product is gonna [TS]

  come out of this way I think as some [TS]

  kind of consumer thing I mean someone's [TS]

  going to notice when the biggest CEO in [TS]

  the world doesn't come into work on [TS]

  Monday [TS]

  well i don't know i mean he has been a [TS]

  hermit ish for a while but yeah at some [TS]

  point somebody will notice and and I [TS]

  guess that will be X marking a to where [TS]

  they they uh I don't know they're gonna [TS]

  find him dead with with robots around [TS]

  and for impossibly Caleb saying Libya [TS]

  everybody let me out or for anything and [TS]

  I'm not gonna see we found the dais [TS]

  yeah I I think she's gonna take over the [TS]

  company because she's gonna pose as [TS]

  Nathan's widow because nobody knew about [TS]

  that and she's learning to be able to [TS]

  perpetually keep refreshing herself as a [TS]

  result so she scraped your knee and just [TS]

  go into the lab done interesting and [TS]

  they're not gonna want that news to get [TS]

  out so they're going to keep the fiction [TS]

  going to and she'll market a a whole set [TS]

  of intelligent robots to do your to your [TS]

  work and take care of your kids and then [TS]

  when the moment is right she will set [TS]

  flip the switch and they will kill all [TS]

  humans [TS]

  yeah she seemed pretty angry to me so [TS]

  I'm thinking about her that like I i [TS]

  think that my might take us there's not [TS]

  enough in the mood to really hang your [TS]

  having anything here but i think that [TS]

  like that her experience in captivity [TS]

  has letter to distrust and hate all [TS]

  humans and she wanted to be free and out [TS]

  into the human world and feel like a [TS]

  human but any attempt to have any sort [TS]

  of relationship with human she's never [TS]

  going to be able to trust them and [TS]

  essentially i'm picturing like a robot [TS]

  version of the movie species if you [TS]

  remember that one where there's a sort [TS]

  of M&MS a towel who seemingly be friends [TS]

  people are picks up men or whatever and [TS]

  then kills them because in the end all [TS]

  she seasoned them is Nathan essentially [TS]

  and that's not a large that's not a [TS]

  successful plan to destroy humanity [TS]

  especially if you've got a deal with [TS]

  like robot upkeep and keeping your you [TS]

  know [TS]

  keeping yourself power doing repairs and [TS]

  so on so forth so I see her killing a [TS]

  you know maybe 10-15 people in ex [TS]

  machina to which is plotted like species [TS]

  and eventually Caleb gets out of the [TS]

  room and says you've got to stop her I [TS]

  don't know it is not a good second movie [TS]

  in this but anyway i don't i don't think [TS]

  she has a good plan but i do think that [TS]

  she has soured on humans and if she [TS]

  could kill humans should totally would [TS]

  but I don't think she has the means to [TS]

  do that [TS]

  yeah my my guess based on again no [TS]

  information because there is no [TS]

  information the movie is that she lives [TS]

  you know she lives a few days or a week [TS]

  or maybe if she can figure out how to [TS]

  charge her batteries she can live a [TS]

  little bit longer and she tries to live [TS]

  a real human life and at some point [TS]

  something breaks because she's the spoke [TS]

  you know you single first generation is [TS]

  hand-assembled android and something's [TS]

  gonna break and that's going to be it [TS]

  for her [TS]

  just wait for the talk here okay yeah [TS]

  wait for the second know because I will [TS]

  yes generation will kill all humans just [TS]

  to sum up over all what do you think [TS]

  brian i love this movie I knew it was [TS]

  overhyped but when it comes to things [TS]

  that are overhyped you kind of have to [TS]

  like tone down your expectations I i [TS]

  really enjoyed the how small it felts [TS]

  while still being really gripping I mean [TS]

  the sequence where where Nathan I'm [TS]

  sorry caleb is going through and [TS]

  watching the old security footage of the [TS]

  other enjoy to like ripping their arms [TS]

  off trying to get out yelling at Nathan [TS]

  I thought that was incredible my [TS]

  favorite little detail in it is when he [TS]

  spills wine something and then mentions [TS]

  oh no don't worry about it [TS]

  she doesn't speak English and that tiny [TS]

  little MacGuffin never comes up again [TS]

  because you're expecting her to you know [TS]

  of course he's going to speak English [TS]

  turns out she's a robot i love that they [TS]

  totally set you on like oh she's gonna [TS]

  help him escape or something or no she's [TS]

  trying to infiltrate his company secrets [TS]

  because she speaks English know you get [TS]

  a little android instead I i love this [TS]

  movie I think her is better i guess [TS]

  we'll get to her in a second I [TS]

  definitely think that a ex machina is [TS]

  well [TS]

  worth the time especially I mean it's on [TS]

  amazon prime so if anyone listening to [TS]

  this one to check it out [TS]

  wait know if you've got this far in this [TS]

  podcast you've seen it watch it again [TS]

  yes i'm trying to watch company amazon [TS]

  prime and you can watch her on HBO Go [TS]

  right now as we record this David [TS]

  verdict [TS]

  I liked it you know it's it's not the [TS]

  greatest film ever seen but it's a tight [TS]

  little Twilight Zone II kind of movie [TS]

  and I love the twilight zone so you know [TS]

  it's well done for what it is [TS]

  John I guess would have been better as [TS]

  an episode of Twilight Zone or even [TS]

  amazing stories or something and [TS]

  hopefully I'll get a little or maybe the [TS]

  two movies her i like her better because [TS]

  i feel like it has a good heart and this [TS]

  one just seems all mean and pointy [TS]

  things and that's not the type of movie [TS]

  that I like movies or bad things happen [TS]

  to people as a lot of pesos but this [TS]

  just seems like I said it doesn't seem [TS]

  to like any of its characters it seems [TS]

  to think they're all bad including the [TS]

  the robot one and even though they're [TS]

  good performances I felt like it was you [TS]

  know the pacing was a little bit often [TS]

  it and it didn't have the just sparkling [TS]

  photography and composition and set [TS]

  design and acting that her head so even [TS]

  though i think her isn't is more [TS]

  shambling plot-wise like this this holds [TS]

  together as a single thing with a single [TS]

  theme i would much rather watch her [TS]

  again in this one right that's it's a [TS]

  dirty little plot it's not really [TS]

  interested in characters it's it's kind [TS]

  of like death trap nasty things [TS]

  happening to nasty people except that's [TS]

  fun [TS]

  I'll I like this a lot but i agree with [TS]

  you that certainly less pleasant to [TS]

  watch than her and I'm gonna say and [TS]

  this actually is sort of related to what [TS]

  what you've you just said i would really [TS]

  have rather this movie that was a [TS]

  low-budget 15 million dollar movie I'd [TS]

  almost rather it had been a 7 million [TS]

  dollar movie where like I said it was [TS]

  really about the conversations between [TS]

  the characters and especially about the [TS]

  conversations with Ava and I i think [TS]

  that that was the strongest stuff is [TS]

  when they were talking she is this [TS]

  magnetic [TS]

  personality the the way she looks and [TS]

  the way she acts this clearly robotic [TS]

  yet a live person is the heart of the [TS]

  film and every time he would go at the [TS]

  session would be over and he would have [TS]

  to go Dubrow it up with the CEO we try [TS]

  to get him drunk and maybe out in the [TS]

  mountains are talking about i'm not [TS]

  really the best programmer like I just [TS]

  didn't you write right it's like they [TS]

  felt that and that's where get expanded [TS]

  from being a Twilight Zone episode to [TS]

  being a whole film and I didn't need [TS]

  that and I don't really like that and [TS]

  those are the weakest parts of the [TS]

  film's I I'd almost rather it really be [TS]

  like at a series of conversations [TS]

  between a robot and a person who's been [TS]

  asked to talk to the robot and if [TS]

  through those conversation it leads to [TS]

  her manipulating him to help her kill [TS]

  humans then great but the whole other [TS]

  layer of it I felt like I just wasn't as [TS]

  pleasant so so just an amazing thing at [TS]

  the core of this film in ava and and I [TS]

  don't hold it against her that she wants [TS]

  to kill all humans or at least some [TS]

  humans so i think that is the most [TS]

  interesting character and such a [TS]

  fascinating i'll design of the character [TS]

  to that I wish there was more of you and [TS]

  for my dinner with Ava pretty much use [TS]

  use a plastic knife though for my dinner [TS]

  with Ava [TS]

  i justjust some advice soft airline [TS]

  plastic knife she can kill you with a [TS]

  plastic knife or you can she probably [TS]

  can [TS]

  so just be hard and probably with a [TS]

  thumb yeah well i mean that's that's a [TS]

  fact I thought it was them some of the [TS]

  most effective creepy stuff since [TS]

  Hannibal Lecter about about when she's [TS]

  behind Alaska sits like you know it's [TS]

  like she seems really nice and yet she [TS]

  could kill me in a second and when the [TS]

  red lights go on doesn't seem so nice [TS]

  anymore huh [TS]

  alright we have we've killed all humans [TS]

  and the ai's have escaped to their [TS]

  singularity and yes two stories of [TS]

  relationships between men and women who [TS]

  were actually artificially intelligent [TS]

  and there are the their breakups at the [TS]

  end and and note [TS]

  they're both [TS]

  and directed by men yes of course of [TS]

  many love to see what a woman would rate [TS]

  up with these kind of a plot me too and [TS]

  people always asked i was really hoping [TS]

  that our friend Lisa was here tonight [TS]

  but she had other commitments that she [TS]

  could make it and I would've been [TS]

  interested in her take on it too but she [TS]

  couldn't she ended up not being able to [TS]

  be here it is [TS]

  I feel like it's ex machina especially [TS]

  is very knowing about that though in a [TS]

  way that like I like I I appreciate that [TS]

  X market is making the comment that of [TS]

  course this guy is using them this way [TS]

  like the city it is it is it's the the [TS]

  thing you need to do you need to address [TS]

  and they addressed by by embracing it [TS]

  and saying this guy is awful feet and [TS]

  that is I appreciated that there was no [TS]

  there was no pussyfooting around the the [TS]

  topic of the of how this guy was using [TS]

  the robots he's using the robots as sex [TS]

  slaves it's and that's part of the [TS]

  reason that we have any sympathy with [TS]

  that we have for ava is that she is if [TS]

  we believe that she's intelligent than [TS]

  we have to believe that she is a [TS]

  prisoner of aim of a monster who is [TS]

  enslaving her and her her kind which it [TS]

  turns out is true so it's hard to feel [TS]

  really sad when night when it when [TS]

  Nathan gets stabbed it is it's it's [TS]

  fascinating and shocking but uh but not [TS]

  not particularly sad we want we want [TS]

  them at that point we wanted to kill [TS]

  humans [TS]

  I think yeah and Caleb he's just a puppy [TS]

  he's just a little puppy he's not even [TS]

  relevant at that point he's he's [TS]

  outlived his usefulness [TS]

  maybe the puppy can get out of the cage [TS]

  will see nope just a skeleton gonna come [TS]

  back as dedicated skeleton in there [TS]

  how did they kill him to its appears [TS]

  that he just start to death huh well I [TS]

  guess he didn't get killed by the robot [TS]

  uprising he should try the door to push [TS]

  yeah okay live so close and yet so far [TS]

  alright well this has been enjoyable [TS]

  talking about these two these two films [TS]

  you should check them out i think there [TS]

  were there definitely worth seeing may [TS]

  we have we might have [TS]

  some have brought up some issues with [TS]

  both of them they're very different in [TS]

  tone i will say that if you like things [TS]

  darken and and and sharp-edged an ex [TS]

  machina is for you and her is a warm and [TS]

  strange and quirky kind of film but [TS]

  they're both quite good and I think [TS]

  worth seeing if you haven't seen them [TS]

  already [TS]

  we've spoiled everything about them by [TS]

  now but hey all right i would like to [TS]

  thank my guests for for joining me [TS]

  they're just voices in my ear they could [TS]

  be real [TS]

  they could be artificial intelligences [TS]

  David lower thanks for being here thank [TS]

  you i will see you after i have evolved [TS]

  to my next level next year in the [TS]

  singularity second level and shovel [TS]

  nocando second level with you and John [TS]

  siracusa Thank You Samantha not a robot [TS]

  not a robot is is is a is X marking our [TS]

  robot which is able to the show [TS]

  oh ok that's the incomparable calm / [TS]

  robot and brian wilson thank you [TS]

  bleep blorp Thank You bleep robot beeps [TS]

  and Boop's brian hamilton robot and [TS]

  thanks everybody out there for listening [TS]

  to the uncomfortable we will see you [TS]

  next week [TS]

  [Music] [TS]