The Incomparable

278: Fake Jedi Boy


  the incomparable number 278 December [TS]

  hello everyone welcome back to the [TS]

  incomparable and another in our series [TS]

  of shows celebrating and discussing Star [TS]

  Wars Episode 7 the force awakens a i am [TS]

  your host Anthony Johnson and as you've [TS]

  probably noticed I am NOT Jason's now in [TS]

  fact I'm not even one of the usual [TS]

  panelists because i live in the UK and [TS]

  normally when those guys are recording [TS]

  it's about 3am here so instead where we [TS]

  decided we're going to call this episode [TS]

  how the North feels about Star Wars and [TS]

  we're recording at a more civilized hour [TS]

  for a more civilized show [TS]

  ah Thank You Liz one person held it all [TS]

  right I'm very Star Wars jokes you will [TS]

  fight usually find me funny enough [TS]

  elsewhere on the incomparable network [TS]

  hosting the podcast unjustly maligned [TS]

  where by coincidence we have in fact [TS]

  well although my guests have I haven't [TS]

  defended the Star Wars prequels to a [TS]

  certain extent today buddy I'm i know [TS]

  but my love original trilogy Star Wars [TS]

  runs very very deep and very long right [TS]

  back to seeing a new hope in the cinema [TS]

  when it was originally released and so [TS]

  joining me to talk about let's be honest [TS]

  the true successor to that original [TS]

  trilogy is from Scotland Liz miles you [TS]

  heard her laughing a minute ago [TS]

  hello also from Scotland james thompson [TS]

  i'm silently giving you a thumbs up [TS]

  using a lighter haha I lover and finally [TS]

  across the pond in wintry Massachusetts [TS]

  it's done more'n it's very seasonable in [TS]

  wintry Massachusetts it's a balmy 50 or [TS]

  60 degrees Fahrenheit here so yeah maybe [TS]

  a little less north than usual I have no [TS]

  idea what that feels [TS]

  what's that mean by that is that in real [TS]

  temperatures it's like with like cool [TS]

  and rainy again it's like Scout [TS]

  basically it feels like scoured here is [TS]

  actually on seasonably mild [TS]

  here as well yes really warm well I [TS]

  wouldn't go that far huh yeah but I came [TS]

  out of the star wars at like three in [TS]

  the morning wearing a t-shirt and there [TS]

  was not a WoW not falling to the ground [TS]

  she's joining us this is the weather [TS]

  podcast there was a vertically out here [TS]

  well I'm underwater so I don't know [TS]

  yeah we want we almost re here but we [TS]

  almost are here as well actually I'm [TS]

  here in the lovely wet and windy and [TS]

  Northwest of England and he's very very [TS]

  way without flood warnings of our yes [TS]

  your your your yes you're probably worse [TS]

  off than welcome to the north so uh and [TS]

  welcome to the show everyone [TS]

  damn forgive me i'm going to skip over [TS]

  you for a moment because I thought you [TS]

  were on the sort of the big show [TS]

  discussing this with Jason and serenity [TS]

  and John siracusa so please do you have [TS]

  before we started getting to discussing [TS]

  you know characters and moments [TS]

  do you have any sort of broad opening [TS]

  remarks that you want to make about your [TS]

  relationship to solve and yes yes I do [TS]

  thank goodness for that good i watch [TS]

  star wars in very much the wrong order [TS]

  I was I'm bit too young to have seen [TS]

  over tomorrow I can't remember time when [TS]

  a handsome return of the jedi and I was [TS]

  quite young when I saw the Empire [TS]

  Strikes Back and I remember the first [TS]

  time I saw a new hope and watching and [TS]

  thinking never seen this before this is [TS]

  a big and I was at least 10 or so I'm [TS]

  not entirely sure that's the most [TS]

  sensible order of cinnamon but it kind [TS]

  of its it's like a build-up because my [TS]

  favorite one of the original trilogy is [TS]

  the first one so it's exciting that way [TS]

  and so when they came back I was quite I [TS]

  was reasonably excited and then very [TS]

  quickly unexcited and sad my life star [TS]

  wars spanish first love [TS]

  as to our is in the computer games [TS]

  versus of knights of the old republic [TS]

  and its sequel and the a morgue of which [TS]

  I i do want to think about how many [TS]

  hours I valuable hours I spades have [TS]

  played that God game with its ridiculous [TS]

  rules and things and basically I [TS]

  guy you spend you kill Jedi make money [TS]

  by plant pots decorate your house is [TS]

  what i do on that a lot so I care a lot [TS]

  about Star Wars obviously really oh just [TS]

  ok so uh how did the whole I am your [TS]

  father thing go for you then if you sin [TS]

  if you saw Empire first or did you say [TS]

  so Jedi first such a diverse john wells [TS]

  in july so I just that dogs just been I [TS]

  think that was no 10 right right so it's [TS]

  like I don't remember notnot wow so it [TS]

  was not as if it was very so certain [TS]

  moments of this n stories of this number [TS]

  very exciting looks like I get them i [TS]

  think the right things that you're [TS]

  learning for the first time ever yeah it [TS]

  was it was oh it was very nice to see a [TS]

  new star wars movie at the cinema and [TS]

  for it not to be terrible [TS]

  I like that feeling i think that's a [TS]

  sentiment we were all having right now [TS]

  is near [TS]

  James what about you then well Star Wars [TS]

  was the first film I saw in the cinema [TS]

  as well in 1978 i think it was it was [TS]

  either that or the cap from 80 space [TS]

  both of which are now but it no disney [TS]

  movies now that i think about it but [TS]

  it's pretty much impossible for me to [TS]

  judge whether it's a good film or not [TS]

  because it was the first because I've [TS]

  seen it so many times since and I grew [TS]

  up with all the merchandise and i do [TS]

  mean Star Wars not the cat from outer [TS]

  space but let me tell you how badly I [TS]

  was burned by the Phantom Menace so [TS]

  about three weeks before the Phantom [TS]

  Menace opened i was visiting the bay [TS]

  area from my day job a certain fruit [TS]

  based company while I was over there [TS]

  I had the chance to visit Skywalker [TS]

  Ranch through a friend that worked the [TS]

  sadly departed LucasArts so we drive up [TS]

  to the front gate [TS]

  we get in we get a little sheet of paper [TS]

  with the rules of the ranch on it so no [TS]

  photos unless somebody else's in the [TS]

  photo that sort of thing I got the full [TS]

  tour I saw the library that had Luke's [TS]

  lightsaber and indeed hat and whip in a [TS]

  little display case and everything there [TS]

  was a vineyard and I was sitting in the [TS]

  main building having my lunch and I was [TS]

  told that joke [TS]

  what was literally upstairs editing the [TS]

  final cut of the Phantom Menace I think [TS]

  it's fair to say that I was quite [TS]

  excited at this point and on the way out [TS]

  i was walking back down the driveway and [TS]

  I may have actually been picking up a [TS]

  small pebble from said driveway which I [TS]

  may still have like movies don't tell me [TS]

  you still have trouble from disney your [TS]

  drives past in his car and actually [TS]

  waves at me and you know I've just been [TS]

  telling me to put the pedal to pedal [TS]

  back haha i would I mean I was convinced [TS]

  it was actually an ilm prop George that [TS]

  they have wave everyone who comes to [TS]

  visit anyway the point is I came out of [TS]

  that whole experience convinced that the [TS]

  Phantom Menace would be the single [TS]

  greatest film of all time works out i [TS]

  think i have I had little further to [TS]

  fall the most perfect so I went into [TS]

  this one with immense trepidation and in [TS]

  fact to counter my excitement before we [TS]

  went into we SAT and watched the style [TS]

  was holiday special girl that's [TS]

  unnecessary [TS]

  well I needed to get my expectations [TS]

  then and I think you hurt [TS]

  oh man you're taking a shot at castor [TS]

  oil or something to go with them [TS]

  oh dear but you are feeling that same [TS]

  relief of you know I've seen a new star [TS]

  wars movie and it's not terrible [TS]

  yeah i mean it came out of that thinking [TS]

  yeah that was a Star Wars movie and it [TS]

  right it takes all the boxes that i was [TS]

  looking for and there was this off that [TS]

  for the first 15 minutes it was like you [TS]

  know I just think you don't screw this [TS]

  up transcript [TS]

  yes exactly and eventually just relaxed [TS]

  and enjoyed yeah oh yeah I think that [TS]

  was that yet there was a point and we'll [TS]

  come to that later but there was a point [TS]

  where yeah I sort of stopped thinking [TS]

  please be good and just went with it and [TS]

  then I was just watching a movie [TS]

  yeah I think serenity made a really good [TS]

  point actually on that earlier [TS]

  sho-sa Early Show god what was it like [TS]

  you know less than 48 hours ago his [TS]

  rhetoric but that the it just it feels [TS]

  like a Star Wars movie if in a way that [TS]

  the [TS]

  equals don't which is you know bizarre [TS]

  obviously being that they were made by [TS]

  Lucas but they just didn't feel like [TS]

  Star Wars where is this really does feel [TS]

  like Star Wars yeah i'm i mean i saw the [TS]

  film it was on the Wednesday just past [TS]

  midnight the tank was the first showings [TS]

  in the UK and i've only seen it once [TS]

  because the first decent imac seats i [TS]

  could get after that point on the [TS]

  thirtieth right I'm but so I'm not [TS]

  probably forgotten pretty much [TS]

  everything that happened in the fellow [TS]

  doesn't everyone i should be an [TS]

  excellent game and listen you don't [TS]

  worry i'm about two hours listening to [TS]

  the west coast incomparable podcast on [TS]

  it and I think you are still discussing [TS]

  the opening crawl but perhaps never [TS]

  we're thorough [TS]

  yeah I'm all right yeah damn so I mean [TS]

  we already heard your thoughts in you [TS]

  know in general on that west coast thing [TS]

  but having had another couple of days [TS]

  now to sort of think about it and I [TS]

  think you've seen it again in that time [TS]

  I have not i'm only i would hope i hope [TS]

  to go see it again but it didn't work [TS]

  out that well we're gonna go see it [TS]

  again this week with some family well in [TS]

  my way for the holidays but yeah I like [TS]

  James I saw one that I'm still I I [TS]

  maybes fuzzy on on some things but i'm [TS]

  looking forward to seeing you again [TS]

  which is always an x-15 right earth [TS]

  would be what having had time to reflect [TS]

  and you know given the will be [TS]

  everybody's doing all this podcasting [TS]

  and stuff about it [TS]

  we're all as you joked on Twitter [TS]

  earlier you know every slack channel [TS]

  that your is talking about Star Wars [TS]

  right now and everyone is typing is the [TS]

  status notification at the bottom so [TS]

  it's been on your mind obviously so [TS]

  haven't had time to reflect you know are [TS]

  you coming around to anything or [TS]

  changing your mind on anything or I i [TS]

  think you know I think the important to [TS]

  come away from this it's it's really [TS]

  hard to put into context because those [TS]

  earlier films at least you know it [TS]

  sounds like for all of us the original [TS]

  trilogy was such a big part of our lives [TS]

  and you know we were exposed to it at an [TS]

  age where we weren't necessarily fully [TS]

  developed an arc all of our critical [TS]

  faculties unless it's always sort of [TS]

  occupied a place in our hearts of [TS]

  emotion not to say that it's not they're [TS]

  not technically wonderful films but you [TS]

  know we in the same way that i find that [TS]

  we you know we were blind to many of the [TS]

  faults of things that were exposed to is [TS]

  as very young kids you know we don't we [TS]

  sweet gloss over certain things that [TS]

  maybe less perfect or other because of [TS]

  you know when we saw him what it meant [TS]

  to us and and none of that is wrong i [TS]

  think it's harder to come into a movie [TS]

  like this when you as we are now much [TS]

  older than we saw the original trilogy [TS]

  and not be a little bit critical of it [TS]

  and I definitely have criticisms of it I [TS]

  i think it's very hard for it in general [TS]

  to occupy even the same sort of level [TS]

  for me i watch two days later I I after [TS]

  i saw force awakens i watch to return [TS]

  the Jedi to show my cousin's kids [TS]

  because I've watched the new hope and [TS]

  empire strikes back with them and we're [TS]

  you know it's like time for them see [TS]

  which are the Jedi and it was [TS]

  interesting watching that in such close [TS]

  proximity to the force awakens because [TS]

  you know your sort of jumping from of [TS]

  seeing Han Solo as a you know as a [TS]

  grizzled old gray-haired guy to you know [TS]

  sort of back into his prime and and sort [TS]

  of trying to make that connection of ok [TS]

  this is it's the same universe [TS]

  II i think it probably has a certain [TS]

  amount of disconnect in it as well [TS]

  because I i did like the film and and [TS]

  like i said i'm looking forward to [TS]

  seeing it a second time but in some ways [TS]

  that also solidified for me that I can [TS]

  divorce this to a certain extent from [TS]

  the original trilogy and say like okay [TS]

  you know this is this is going back and [TS]

  revisiting some of the same characters [TS]

  but if I really wanted to you know just [TS]

  sort of view the original trilogy as its [TS]

  own self-contained thing I feel [TS]

  comfortable doing that not an end in the [TS]

  same way I imagine some people might [TS]

  feel similarly about something like you [TS]

  know doctor who which we obviously had a [TS]

  huge hiatus between incarnations as well [TS]

  so that there are people you know who [TS]

  who might like you know the classic [TS]

  Doctor Who versus the more modern doctor [TS]

  who and there's connections it's [TS]

  undeniable that they take place you know [TS]

  there's sort of a continuity run running [TS]

  through all of it but you know you can [TS]

  also still feel comfortable picking and [TS]

  choosing the parts of it that you want [TS]

  to think about and so for me I really [TS]

  it's it's fascinating because it it's [TS]

  not that it feels like fanfiction it's [TS]

  obviously better [TS]

  does feel like Star Wars you know and [TS]

  the fact that it was made by someone who [TS]

  is legitimately a fan for the first time [TS]

  you know really colors it with a [TS]

  different a different brush there and I [TS]

  think what I've you know come to feel [TS]

  about it is like these may not be my [TS]

  star wars movies but I'm still really [TS]

  happy that their star wars movies and [TS]

  that this is a Star Wars movie because i [TS]

  do agree that it feels like a Star Wars [TS]

  movie in the way that the prequels never [TS]

  did and even if it doesn't quite reach [TS]

  the heights of some of that original for [TS]

  me just because of the context of when i [TS]

  saw it and how much it affected my life [TS]

  I don't think that necessarily lessens [TS]

  the impact of it as a film for me well [TS]

  and just talking about the originals [TS]

  treating the originals as a [TS]

  self-contained unit I've been doing that [TS]

  for the last what 15 20 we all have guns [TS]

  right exactly because well the thing was [TS]

  that I saw phantom menace in the cinema [TS]

  and like everybody else I was terribly [TS]

  disappointed but I was so disappointed [TS]

  that I didn't even watch the other [TS]

  movies until I'd until I did the show [TS]

  the podcast about them earlier this year [TS]

  on understand i had not even seen clones [TS]

  or going to the same what do you think [TS]

  of them i refused to watch the thought [TS]

  they were terrible [TS]

  yeah aren't we all example yeah but I [TS]

  that was how badly i hated Phantom [TS]

  Menace I was just like well I'm not [TS]

  watching these other movies there's no [TS]

  way they can redeem this film and always [TS]

  right but yeah I mean I went from [TS]

  watching you know I haven't seen phantom [TS]

  menace five times in the theaters [TS]

  because it took awhile for its hey hey [TS]

  Atlanta again once again on that knife's [TS]

  edge of being a kid and being an adult [TS]

  and thinking why are I was I was reeled [TS]

  in you and I yeah what are these came i [TS]

  am I wrong am I wrong somehow for not [TS]

  liking movies is this a fault of mine [TS]

  there was a there was definitely a [TS]

  feeling watching it thinking this isn't [TS]

  good [TS]

  something's not right you had an exam [TS]

  just that well you know the music's [TS]

  right everything looks right kinda no no [TS]

  we did not look right now okay think but [TS]

  on the flipside like going into this [TS]

  movie and trying to I think it is like [TS]

  you guys were saying like the don't [TS]

  screw this up don't screw this up [TS]

  mentality and then being able to sort of [TS]

  like you know take a deep breath and say [TS]

  I'm just [TS]

  I'm just gonna watch the movie like [TS]

  that's a challenge right because there [TS]

  is so much of this period where it's [TS]

  like you're feeling like resistant like [TS]

  am I gonna get burned again is this all [TS]

  a mistake and then it takes some time [TS]

  and that's why i'm looking forward to [TS]

  watching it again because having only [TS]

  seen it once i still have to contend [TS]

  with that whole feeling of its should i [TS]

  commit should i let my sister I opened [TS]

  myself up to be hurt again [TS]

  trust me totally holds up yeah i'm [TS]

  looking forward to it and I I didn't buy [TS]

  a single piece of merchandise before I [TS]

  saw the film because a lot of people [TS]

  lots of much James owns a full-size [TS]

  battle directly but i found a inbox my [TS]

  collection of you know like anakin [TS]

  skywalker figures and y2 and whoever [TS]

  else that I had no idea who these people [TS]

  were and recently when there was the the [TS]

  force friday thing where all the [TS]

  merchandise was released for this film I [TS]

  took a picture of all of them and [TS]

  tweeted it and said I'm so looking [TS]

  forward to seeing this new film just to [TS]

  remind everyone your IE are either have [TS]

  no memory of mine i have a couple of [TS]

  memories here and there but no overall [TS]

  sort of memory of my life before Star [TS]

  Wars I i literally I was five years old [TS]

  when the first time say when a new hope [TS]

  was released I sword in the cinema it [TS]

  was one of the first not the first one [TS]

  of the first films have a sword in the [TS]

  cinema and I literally do not remember [TS]

  my life before that point I in a toys [TS]

  Spenny sticker albums remember those [TS]

  brits that the first album I ever owned [TS]

  that my mother bought for me when I was [TS]

  I think seven years old was the London [TS]

  Philharmonic Orchestra recording the [TS]

  star wars the music and like very you [TS]

  know Luke's thin layers then what have [TS]

  you and literally it wasn't a whole [TS]

  soundtrack and he took up one side of [TS]

  the album and the other side was I think [TS]

  it was host the planets it was really [TS]

  strange but they had a x-wing on the [TS]

  front so that was good enough for me and [TS]

  happen when I was when I was a small [TS]

  child and I was t think I i chewed on [TS]

  the foot of a wookie [TS]

  that's my Star Wars yeah i still have [TS]

  the first game that i bought myself well [TS]

  darkness will talk about it was rebel [TS]

  salt for the pci well there's century I [TS]

  still got it in the covered my favorite [TS]

  games even though i can't play anymore [TS]

  computer doesn't take the desks classic [TS]

  game maybe the closest comparison that i [TS]

  can think of for for younger listeners [TS]

  is like Harry Potter like think of how [TS]

  the reason now there's a whole [TS]

  generation who just know Harry Potter [TS]

  because it's everywhere they've also in [TS]

  all the movies they've read all the [TS]

  books then all the characters than all [TS]

  the actors and they assume that [TS]

  everybody their age also knows [TS]

  harrypotter harrypotter is their thing [TS]

  if you are that age you know Harry [TS]

  Potter in the same way and that's what [TS]

  it's like for people our age we just [TS]

  know Star Wars it's just there and as [TS]

  you say it becomes his dominance thing [TS]

  becomes so huge and there's such an [TS]

  emotional connection to because it's [TS]

  part of childhood that it's really [TS]

  difficult to actually be objective and [TS]

  sort of critical and I mean that in the [TS]

  you know traditional in the sense of the [TS]

  movies because you have such a [TS]

  deep-seated attachment to them and you [TS]

  know you wouldn't have that attachment [TS]

  if they weren't great movies [TS]

  let's not forget that he's aligned of [TS]

  you know all intellectual stuff aside if [TS]

  they weren't actually just really good [TS]

  entertainment then we wouldn't have that [TS]

  emotional connection to them but yeah [TS]

  that's kind of I think that's the best [TS]

  comparison that I've been able to come [TS]

  up with to make people realize water [TS]

  original Star Wars was like and for this [TS]

  I of i did the whole the full circu sir [TS]

  I avoid spoilers i only watch the [TS]

  official trailers I didn't read any [TS]

  transmedia stuff i didn't watch any [TS]

  transmedia stuff I I didn't even know [TS]

  the names of the characters going [TS]

  glasses and while i didn't know i was [TS]

  unable to escape that [TS]

  yeah yeah I I knew nothing and I i loved [TS]

  it i absolutely loved it and I think [TS]

  that going in spoiler-free actually [TS]

  really helped in that sense because i [TS]

  had no expectations i literally had no [TS]

  no sort of preconceived notions of [TS]

  anything about this movie and I'm just [TS]

  gonna spoiler-free as well why didn't [TS]

  the names of the main characters edit [TS]

  about big talk to switch the the terror [TS]

  and fear of the disappointment thing and [TS]

  I didn't get to see it till saturday so [TS]

  by then loads of people have been going [TS]

  to can't see it so I can manage to get a [TS]

  few like I just give me a one-word [TS]

  non-spoilery opinion of it just say easy [TS]

  good physically and everyone said well [TS]

  it was all positive so it's like okay [TS]

  it's not going to be terrible [TS]

  I can relax and as soon as in fact as [TS]

  soon as the scroll came up and i read [TS]

  the first three sentences i was like I [TS]

  can breathe and it's gonna be fine [TS]

  nothing about trade disputes nothing [TS]

  about it was really just I think we had [TS]

  an advantage in the UK because we saw [TS]

  like more than 24 hours before the [TS]

  Americans where we do you really hate [TS]

  you for this [TS]

  I didn't actually I saw on friday so [TS]

  well i think that i saw in the midnight [TS]

  showing so like there was no real chance [TS]

  of being spoiled unless any Australians [TS]

  that popped up and i mean it was it was [TS]

  good because i was going into it without [TS]

  knowing whether it was good or not [TS]

  because if if everybody had told me very [TS]

  that this was a really good film then I [TS]

  would have had more problems I think I i [TS]

  tried to avoid even that because i was [TS]

  super worried i just switched I closed [TS]

  down Twitter I didn't go on / i mean III [TS]

  barely all I did was read my email [TS]

  basically and read more replies on [TS]

  Twitter from Monday through Friday as [TS]

  most of what i did and yet still I got [TS]

  white people replies where I post things [TS]

  may be like oh don't worry i think [TS]

  you'll enjoy them i don't even think [TS]

  you'll enjoy the bet where is why I only [TS]

  wanted a one-word review of it because [TS]

  that meant you could keep it didn't [TS]

  oversell with one word right [TS]

  yea though well apartment unless unless [TS]

  everybody said fantastic you know [TS]

  amazing spectacular [TS]

  yeah yeah but i think its era well no [TS]

  one did that it was it was so I feel ok [TS]

  so there were rocks sense for people i [TS]

  got before we go any further actually [TS]

  let [TS]

  just let's for people who are listening [TS]

  who if you're listening to this new [TS]

  happens in the movie yet I question your [TS]

  life choices button sound the spoiler [TS]

  horn [TS]

  and now we will be because I wanted to [TS]

  be careful that we don't get into [TS]

  spoiler territory without warning people [TS]

  at least so yes now let's carry on so I [TS]

  went in and it was the first showing and [TS]

  while I may own a full set of Jedi robes [TS]

  and possibly an order one lightsaber i [TS]

  decided not to let them and just go with [TS]

  a sort of understated New Hope is [TS]

  t-shirt and I tend to be quite wise [TS]

  because aside from one princess layer [TS]

  and I think this is all be princess [TS]

  layer and nobody's an actual zombie [TS]

  James sorry yeah nobody else at the [TS]

  cinema was dressed up at all and I don't [TS]

  know if that was because people have [TS]

  been burned in the past by this dressing [TS]

  up and then finding out the films were [TS]

  terrible [TS]

  oh and they didn't want to commit until [TS]

  they knew that the film was good or if [TS]

  it was just that this was a Glasgow and [TS]

  wandering around in your dressing that [TS]

  was money first ought to be on his [TS]

  Believe generally friend apart we we had [TS]

  we had some people in dress up at my [TS]

  local theater here which is in service [TS]

  or suburban Boston area there was a [TS]

  there was a quite good [TS]

  Cloud City hon and layout as a couple [TS]

  which was excellent [TS]

  haha yeah i think was in there I feel [TS]

  like there might have been a BBA to like [TS]

  it was it was pretty good wasn't like [TS]

  that unlike having been to Star Wars [TS]

  Celebration earlier this year play [TS]

  hiding around zero without taking up [TS]

  three seats in this and you know I'm [TS]

  people come up with their very clever [TS]

  things I think it's like a hacked it was [TS]

  like a little BB a have just the head [TS]

  it was pretty good though I remember [TS]

  doing that but yeah having seen the the [TS]

  costumes tried it out at the star wars [TS]

  celebration this year and this was like [TS]

  it was good like more than you see for [TS]

  most movie openings for sure but not [TS]

  quite that level even in fact one of the [TS]

  people that we went with actually my [TS]

  friend had a great ray costume and so [TS]

  clearly had been studying all the all [TS]

  the trailers and and posters and [TS]

  everything beforehand to make that which [TS]

  was pretty cool i was delighted to note [TS]

  the the i went to a 730 p.m. showing on [TS]

  the friday which is kind of like [TS]

  primetime cinema time obviously but I [TS]

  was delighted to see that the world a [TS]

  lot of kids in the audience a lot of I [TS]

  mean obviously a lot of people my age [TS]

  taking their kids along you know sort of [TS]

  nostalgic purposes and all that [TS]

  yeah just a lot of kids and the kids all [TS]

  really enjoyed it you know you could [TS]

  hear them all gasping and whooping and [TS]

  stuff while the film was on and then [TS]

  coming out afterwards they all clearly [TS]

  had really enjoyed it and I'm talking [TS]

  kids you know between the ages of six [TS]

  seven and maybe you know 11 or 12 a good [TS]

  fairly good range so that I thought was [TS]

  really really positive and I just want [TS]

  to quickly conclude my point by saying [TS]

  the that the mine concern like most of [TS]

  us was you know even if it's [TS]

  entertaining [TS]

  will it have an impact on me will I be [TS]

  thinking about it afterwards because [TS]

  like say the track reboots JJ Abrams [TS]

  strike movies are entertaining movies I [TS]

  think they're great movies but I i [TS]

  walked out the Sun mr and they just left [TS]

  my head you know I wasn't thinking about [TS]

  them for days afterwards where is this [TS]

  yeah I have been thinking about this [TS]

  movie ever since i saw it so I think [TS]

  it's safe to say that for me at least it [TS]

  has had yes not as much impact as the [TS]

  original trilogy but still much more [TS]

  impact certainly than the prequels and [TS]

  the many many other movies I've seen [TS]

  recently is not only and part of that I [TS]

  feel like is this the the place of this [TS]

  as we discuss a little bit on the main [TS]

  show the place of this as the the watch [TS]

  pad right you know because unlike so [TS]

  many other movies where it's like well [TS]

  this movie is going to come out we're [TS]

  gonna see if it does well or not and if [TS]

  it does well there will be a sequel and [TS]

  sometimes usually on threads in that [TS]

  first movie where you're like oh you [TS]

  know this might come up later and so [TS]

  having this situation specifically where [TS]

  this foregone conclusion we already knew [TS]

  that the sequel's were coming allows you [TS]

  to do things that leave the you know [TS]

  questions to be answered much more [TS]

  blatantly like this is the first chapter [TS]

  of a story in the way that a lot of [TS]

  movies and not say it's not [TS]

  self-contained doesn't tell a story [TS]

  within itself but the idea that like [TS]

  this is only the tip of the iceberg it [TS]

  deliberately leaves a lot of threats [TS]

  dangling yeah exactly and provides you [TS]

  with so much opportunity to speculate [TS]

  about what is going to happen next [TS]

  because we already know there is a next [TS]

  you know it's not just like a well if [TS]

  they decide to do with another one it [TS]

  might be about this and as you know this [TS]

  there is going to be another one we know [TS]

  this leads directly into it and [TS]

  therefore we get all this chance to [TS]

  speculative [TS]

  like what's gonna happen with this in [TS]

  this who is this person what does this [TS]

  mean you know and so i think that's [TS]

  that's a particularly rich vein for [TS]

  speculation [TS]

  absolutely it does what worried me a bit [TS]

  though because that the whole like we're [TS]

  gonna get a new star wars film every [TS]

  year until we die until you die know [TS]

  what it's like to live forever but you [TS]

  know it's it's like you know the world [TS]

  three films as we all know and now we're [TS]

  getting all these new film will they be [TS]

  devalued yeah I mean it's like the first [TS]

  one obviously is gonna have a massive [TS]

  impact but is that you know you're gonna [TS]

  have diminishing returns and you know [TS]

  with all the spin-off films are we going [TS]

  to be because I mean I i really love to [TS]

  the first Avengers movie and by the time [TS]

  we go into the second avengers movie was [TS]

  like well this is kind of good but it's [TS]

  been more of the same and you know and I [TS]

  was just that sort of disappointment and [TS]

  slightly jadedness with the the Marvel [TS]

  superhero stuff with was beginning to [TS]

  kick in i think as long as the the [TS]

  alternate movies if you like the sort of [TS]

  you know the what are they calling there [TS]

  is a name that they're giving them [TS]

  oh you know over the anthology films at [TS]

  the end always that's it right i was [TS]

  tails or some rest on Rogue Squadron all [TS]

  that sort of stuff as long as that I [TS]

  think as long as those are disconnected [TS]

  enough from the main narrative of the [TS]

  main movies that you know hopefully will [TS]

  avoid that fatigue because I know what [TS]

  you mean yeah it has started to set in [TS]

  to an extent with the Marvel movies but [TS]

  on the other hand we've had a fast and [TS]

  furious movie every year for the past [TS]

  three years and they've all been [TS]

  brilliant [TS]

  so that's well above 3 no 2 no no I'm [TS]

  saying for the past three years ever [TS]

  since Fast Five basically um so you know [TS]

  it can be done and with different [TS]

  directors as well that helps hopefully [TS]

  keep things fresh [TS]

  so I'm just looking at the poster here [TS]

  on the wikipedia pages of remembered [TS]

  when i saw the poster I at first thought [TS]

  that the woman was holding some kind of [TS]

  Darth Maul like lightsaber staff and [TS]

  then I look closer [TS]

  realize that that's the guy in the masks [TS]

  lightsaber and she's just kind of normal [TS]

  stuff and I actually thought oh they do [TS]

  that's a bit of a cop-out they want you [TS]

  to think that she's a Jedi but actually [TS]

  she's not it's just an optical illusion [TS]

  hey you went too far you went too far [TS]

  past the exact opposite with that I [TS]

  thought oh you want you to enter she's [TS]

  gonna get double pleats like silver at [TS]

  some point despite the fact that all the [TS]

  problem of stuff was suggesting but it's [TS]

  all going to be what's it been he was [TS]

  the Jedi right well including the main [TS]

  poster he's holding the blue lightsaber [TS]

  in the post yeah right and I oh I looked [TS]

  at that poster and then there were [TS]

  people saying well as terrible as a [TS]

  really big spoiler on that and only that [TS]

  was and i will look back and I hadn't [TS]

  seen the sort of Death Star like a ball [TS]

  that was in the background of the show [TS]

  guys just sit [TS]

  I don't know but I was like kind of when [TS]

  it's done all the people in the front [TS]

  that didn't see this giant thing but [TS]

  then i but then is not really a spoiler [TS]

  though the evil empire spines of super [TS]

  weapon would never have guessed a [TS]

  bowl-shaped super weapon but i did [TS]

  decide [TS]

  basically I looked at it again I thought [TS]

  no that's actually it's PBS dad haha [TS]

  bb7 I you know it's funny when i was at [TS]

  the star wars celebration in April they [TS]

  had a bunch of the costumes from the [TS]

  force awakens and we were sort of hours [TS]

  they were the couple my friends were [TS]

  debating like do we go in yes miss [TS]

  boiler and and me and one of my friends [TS]

  ended up going in and the one thing that [TS]

  was we we thought was basically oh this [TS]

  is this is kind of a spoiler that we got [TS]

  away from that was they had john-boy I [TS]

  guess costume and headlights it had a [TS]

  concept drawing attachment in which [TS]

  there was a lightsaber on his belt and [TS]

  we're like our giveaway that he had a [TS]

  light saver which of course is also kind [TS]

  of a fake-out so in that way it was [TS]

  funny because it's set like you guys [TS]

  with the posters set me up thinking in [TS]

  one direction and of course that's not [TS]

  entirely true i was just overthinking [TS]

  get it turns out there was a spoiler [TS]

  ship that I did see which was annoying [TS]

  which was housing for was asked what his [TS]

  favorite scene of the film was and he [TS]

  said something like always raise [TS]

  lightsaber battle at the end [TS]

  I don't know I'm that was like at least [TS]

  everything you didn't say getting [TS]

  stabbed can't get that baby died i'm [TS]

  doing good choice [TS]

  Harrison forget your good choice just [TS]

  keep it is out can we just take a moment [TS]

  actually to give props to you mention [TS]

  BBA and to praise the animators of bb-8 [TS]

  because you know he's a character like [TS]

  r2d2 who you know save nothing just [TS]

  bleep boobs nothing intelligible to [TS]

  human ears and yet like r2 and i would [TS]

  say actually even more than r2 they give [TS]

  him such an amazing personality he is an [TS]

  instantly likable lovable character with [TS]

  yet nothing but you know two balls and [TS]

  some bleeps and bloops he had physically [TS]

  robotic hamster below her emotions well [TS]

  he does sometimes that's so cute [TS]

  yes well in the rocking back and forth [TS]

  and you know tilting his head to sort of [TS]

  be sad and things like that and yes the [TS]

  the thumbs up with the lighter was you [TS]

  know that everybody loves my firm if I'm [TS]

  correct I think he was it was a purely a [TS]

  physical prop so yes Papa tiered [TS]

  basically well i don't think i don't [TS]

  know about purely i'm sure there were [TS]

  some parts where they CGI'd in but yes [TS]

  and this is that the close-up stuff [TS]

  where it was with the actors yes that [TS]

  was a physical problem which is kind of [TS]

  amazing [TS]

  yeah I mean that was the thing just as a [TS]

  slight tangent that the the things that [TS]

  bothered me the most in the film were [TS]

  the the cgi characters because [TS]

  everything was so real and you know [TS]

  let's build all the x-wings let's do all [TS]

  this and then the smoke and the mass [TS]

  kanata Angeles and the trader and the [TS]

  rest are they were the four-seat big cgi [TS]

  Grange's and they kind of go is tricked [TS]

  into thinking they were real because [TS]

  everything else looks so real so I just [TS]

  assumed that pie that of course it will [TS]

  be CGI don't be ridiculous to me that [TS]

  the smoke one I think just was that was [TS]

  the the thing that took me at the moon [TS]

  fee and and it's going yeah well it's [TS]

  golem and I like the fact that he liked [TS]

  clearly have something Polian complex [TS]

  and is about the size of yoda because he [TS]

  possessed himself as that everybody's [TS]

  assuming that all yeah but I do feel [TS]

  like it is kind of a that it feels more [TS]

  deliberate to me i agree that i found it [TS]

  a little more off-putting even then you [TS]

  know the temperature of the Emperor's [TS]

  giant head and empire strikes back but i [TS]

  have to wonder if thats a deliberate [TS]

  obfuscation it certainly seems like it [TS]

  but I and I really liked mass as a [TS]

  character i do agree with the people who [TS]

  are asking like could could win because [TS]

  that's the fabulous lupita nyong'o and [TS]

  you couldn't we have just had her you [TS]

  know as a as a live actor and I feel [TS]

  like it probably would have been felt [TS]

  like a very different character in some [TS]

  ways but i would have been totally okay [TS]

  with that because she's obviously [TS]

  fabulous and I she does a great job with [TS]

  that like CGI character that might be my [TS]

  favorite CGI character i thought the [TS]

  character was good it was just visually [TS]

  I think it took me all right and also [TS]

  the fact that as soon as I thought of [TS]

  Edna mode from the incredibles yeah that [TS]

  was yeah I guess the kid of her in Yoda [TS]

  I kept thinking of Hetty from NCIS los [TS]

  it's and i was i was thinking about [TS]

  these cgi creatures and yet it looks [TS]

  like this four main cgi not humans in [TS]

  the movie and they're all obviously cgi [TS]

  like none of that none of them sort of [TS]

  passed the test of liked or didn't [TS]

  realize I was CGI but sorry Liz [TS]

  sometimes they're easily falls but I [TS]

  then I was thinking about it more and [TS]

  especially when i saw it again and I [TS]

  thought you know is this any worse then [TS]

  things like the rancor or the hot one / [TS]

  or yoda-like in the original trilogy [TS]

  where they were either puppets or stop [TS]

  motion and it's not like we didn't know [TS]

  you know it's not like we couldn't tell [TS]

  that they were special effects as well [TS]

  you know I were going to argue with you [TS]

  on that point on Yoda who I [TS]

  victory yeah there's a conscious [TS]

  knowledge certainly that this is not a [TS]

  real thing but just even going back and [TS]

  watching that and knowing that he's not [TS]

  real [TS]

  there's something either as an animus [TS]

  like a human animus to him because of [TS]

  the fact that there is a a person [TS]

  portraying it in like a very physical [TS]

  way that that always that I find much [TS]

  more plausible and wrong with the [TS]

  performance is amazing and you know i [TS]

  mean the Dark Crystal is one of my [TS]

  favorite movies ever and that's the same [TS]

  basically the same sort of perpetrators [TS]

  Yoda you know I have nothing against it [TS]

  and I think it's it was amazing school [TS]

  is certainly better than the CGI Yoda [TS]

  that we can 30 i will agree with you on [TS]

  the sense of the rancor you know having [TS]

  gone back like I said just watch Jedi [TS]

  you know it's clear to me that based on [TS]

  just sort of the camera angles and stuff [TS]

  that the rancor is clearly a model still [TS]

  scary enough for my like you know my [TS]

  cousin's kids a little yeah but it's it [TS]

  is it is there's always gonna Ray [TS]

  Harryhausen you know Jason the [TS]

  arrangements with the other skeletons [TS]

  weekend we know it's a special effect [TS]

  but that doesn't make you spend at this [TS]

  point right but I think for the rest of [TS]

  the film and you know it's something [TS]

  that you could look at twenty years [TS]

  later or something or 30 years later and [TS]

  it it would hold up and I think that's [TS]

  one reason why i think the the original [TS]

  film's hold up especially in there sort [TS]

  of d specialized let's strip everything [TS]

  out of them versions because you know [TS]

  they were physical things that they were [TS]

  filming and you know that this film is [TS]

  in no way as bad as the prequels in [TS]

  terms of the cgi stuff but those those [TS]

  are the things i think this stuck out [TS]

  because everything else was just right [TS]

  I think it's what I will definitely [TS]

  having having real sets made I think it [TS]

  must make such a huge difference the [TS]

  actors performances as well as just the [TS]

  way you're looking at you didn't feel [TS]

  that you were watching someone else play [TS]

  a god-awful computer game for most of [TS]

  the time and so yeah I walk you and [TS]

  always preferable work to CGI even when [TS]

  it's like cheap model work because it [TS]

  just it will look better if it doesn't [TS]

  vision is going to be better in 10 or 20 [TS]

  years time anyway and and I think hear [TS]

  it did feel that either did you see GI [TS]

  it was in service to the actual real [TS]

  stuff rather than trying to use to [TS]

  replace anything [TS]

  real thats that's one of the things that [TS]

  I'm really looking forward to is [TS]

  whatever massive extended boxset blu-ray [TS]

  we get with all the making of stuff [TS]

  because it's probably time to CGI that [TS]

  was probably a ton of CGI that we not [TS]

  see [TS]

  oh it yet this is the thing like these [TS]

  four creatures are the obvious cgi but [TS]

  i'm sure there isn't a frame of this [TS]

  movie that it doesn't have some CGI [TS]

  right somewhere and that's why you [TS]

  should be used yeah where it can be put [TS]

  in seamlessly so you don't notice it not [TS]

  to be used as the whole construction and [TS]

  foundations of European media exactly [TS]

  exactly so [TS]

  alright let's move onto characters let's [TS]

  elephant in the room [TS]

  I don't know she is in the background [TS]

  wandering around with the stormtroopers [TS]

  cgi yeah i got his judgments in this [TS]

  movie like a better boat is that what [TS]

  you're trying to tell me know so we are [TS]

  we were talking about this offer before [TS]

  we started there is this whole sort of [TS]

  there's the backlash you know these [TS]

  people doing their hot takes about how [TS]

  this is actually a terrible movie and [TS]

  we're all falls and you know going right [TS]

  in its tracks [TS]

  you don't believe don't go on the [TS]

  internet it's a terrible place and Ray [TS]

  people complaining the Ray is Mary Sue [TS]

  and she's overpowered only the small and [TS]

  right i want to get specifically our [TS]

  lives i want to get your opinion about [TS]

  that [TS]

  oh my gold into what they can I swear in [TS]

  this podcast you're probably get bread [TS]

  and if anything deserves it LOL i'll [TS]

  switch to Britishness what the bleeding [TS]

  Dickens been on the phone that is that [TS]

  three is an absolutely amazing character [TS]

  is the character that I deserved at 12 [TS]

  years old to get but I didn't get I got [TS]

  those bloomin prequels instead this is [TS]

  the star wars movie I should have had as [TS]

  I was growing up [TS]

  re is amazing and the actor is obviously [TS]

  fantastic but here we have she is [TS]

  getting the major here work of the story [TS]

  its hardness to our questions just a [TS]

  slow realization going into movie was [TS]

  made my mean pleasure was this just [TS]

  slowly being realizing that she was the [TS]

  one who is going to invite to be the [TS]

  hero at the end it was all focused on [TS]

  hard the other ones weren't work for [TS]

  golden but they were working in service [TS]

  to her central pillar type thing [TS]

  overpowered don't be pleading ridiculous [TS]

  she's doing some little force tricks so [TS]

  she can work out how to do it [TS]

  it's interesting because it's doing a [TS]

  different thing to what we've seen [TS]

  before [TS]

  it's not someone being trained by a [TS]

  mentor she has no manager is figuring [TS]

  out by herself [TS]

  that's different and interesting and of [TS]

  course she's a flawed characters so [TS]

  emotionally sharp edges everywhere [TS]

  because she's had to be because she shut [TS]

  down and isolated and a bit grumpy and [TS]

  techy and she just happens to be really [TS]

  good at engineering as well [TS]

  well it makes sense given the context [TS]

  that she's out scavenging all this may [TS]

  take all over the place [TS]

  why not and in order to survive she's [TS]

  going to have to keep her little and [TS]

  Lancer thing going anyway so I'm ya [TS]

  brain was amazing and my actual favorite [TS]

  moment and all the Star Wars movies now [TS]

  is the moment we get into a fight where [TS]

  we know what's happening in the little [TS]

  lightsaber starts to see but actually [TS]

  seeing it should out the snow past and [TS]

  tyler run kangaroo and I knew that and [TS]

  into her hands and her igniting it that [TS]

  was just that was amazing i I've [TS]

  definitely thought that was the best [TS]

  that the film it was it was and just [TS]

  getting it has been a very good year [TS]

  being alone liking science fiction [TS]

  things i keep getting things I like and [TS]

  pander to a nice it's like this poor [TS]

  guys all the time we much makes a [TS]

  television yeah exactly 90 percenter [TS]

  Italian that's exactly the point and [TS]

  that's why these complaints annoy me so [TS]

  much is what you have everything else [TS]

  including the original trilogy by or the [TS]

  man who are complaining they should that [TS]

  o ne but yes no amazing i love her ID or [TS]

  her i did the the i do collect some star [TS]

  wars action pictures mostly the woman [TS]

  who are in the movies i did get everyone [TS]

  before the film and then feel like oh [TS]

  dear God if I just jinxed it is nothing [TS]

  terrible's i bought a piece of [TS]

  merchandise and so glad i did I love her [TS]

  she is my hero i agree with you one [TS]

  hundred percent and it's interesting [TS]

  that you mentioned her sort of being [TS]

  damaged [TS]

  character emotionally because that's [TS]

  sort of an argument or discussion that I [TS]

  saw between several women actually on [TS]

  Twitter talking about this a couple of [TS]

  days ago and saying that you know what a [TS]

  lot of the fanboys are missing is that [TS]

  yes she may already know how to do a few [TS]

  things that she won't need to be taught [TS]

  like she doesn't need to be taught how [TS]

  to fly or how to fix a starship or [TS]

  whatever but instead what she will have [TS]

  and you can see this coming in she's [TS]

  gonna have an emotional arc because she [TS]

  is clearly so emotionally flawed as a [TS]

  character whereas in the original [TS]

  trilogy even Luke ok was a bit whiny but [TS]

  basically he was pretty much all there [TS]

  he just had to learn how to do a few [TS]

  things like you know use the Force and [TS]

  fight with the lightsaber and stuff yeah [TS]

  he knows how to do some of that stuff [TS]

  already but she is so damaged [TS]

  emotionally and I think a lot of frankly [TS]

  male fans are missing that because it's [TS]

  not something that we normally get with [TS]

  male characters it's not something that [TS]

  we normally have to kind of think about [TS]

  it as a character Iraq I think whoever I [TS]

  i think it's quite actually quite kind [TS]

  of a popular one the world it's got [TS]

  slightly different emphasis but where [TS]

  you have a male character who is like [TS]

  emotionally withdrawn and he needs to [TS]

  find the right woman to help him heal [TS]

  and becoming emotionally rounded person [TS]

  that's a fairly common truck and I I [TS]

  think seeing that apply to women and 4g [TS]

  she i'd love that she is so grumpy in [TS]

  taxi throughout it and really quite [TS]

  snappy wait it's great because that's [TS]

  often those are so often portrayed as [TS]

  very negative things on a woman you must [TS]

  be look pretty and nice and be happy and [TS]

  pandering to everyone around you and she [TS]

  doesn't and it's it's fab and just to [TS]

  make it extra delightful she's paired [TS]

  with with fen who is another very [TS]

  emotionally damaged character if you [TS]

  look so he's going to have the hero and [TS]

  argon whole hero who doesn't have is [TS]

  completes the sort of volatility but [TS]

  isn't the sort of the little box of the [TS]

  trilogy is is the white guy here all [TS]

  weekend pile it really well and it sort [TS]

  of its it feels so much like it's been [TS]

  written by someone who really cares but [TS]

  not excluding people from the star wars [TS]

  universe [TS]

  and instead of oh it's just it makes me [TS]

  so sad with the Star Wars movies [TS]

  Heather's basically i know there's more [TS]

  than one woman but basically there's one [TS]

  woman in each vellum and here is a film [TS]

  that even if it's not fifty-fifty it's [TS]

  still chilly intelligent another one [TS]

  it's gorgeous [TS]

  one of the things I was going to ask is [TS]

  in the cinema what was the gender split [TS]

  because in the showing that i saw which [TS]

  was you know the first showing it was [TS]

  way less than a quarter of the people in [TS]

  the cinema were women so is oh wow quite [TS]

  heavily biased towards man and that I [TS]

  think that'll change yeah i think we [TS]

  like I was that was my hope [TS]

  basically because this is a film that's [TS]

  obviously you know young girls that [TS]

  would be absolutely ideal for but then [TS]

  that the whole stuff of the disney [TS]

  marketing where you know that Ray who [TS]

  was as we've said is basically the main [TS]

  character isn't featured in the sort of [TS]

  the various PACs of figure 4 10 gorgeous [TS]

  but I think now that it's out and one [TS]

  sort of word spreads that you get what [TS]

  you get and you get her interactions [TS]

  with leah and you get her interactions [TS]

  with Lupita youngest character forgotten [TS]

  the neverender jobs their reports so [TS]

  delightful and chic their mentoring in [TS]

  different ways and it's very good my [TS]

  favorite were not favor I would say but [TS]

  the bit that made me laugh with Ray more [TS]

  than any other in this movie and you [TS]

  know the Stormtrooper you will undo [TS]

  these restraints yes that was that was [TS]

  very funny especially knowing that it [TS]

  was Daniel Craig under yes um how did [TS]

  you not know it was always like that was [TS]

  his cameo created there's tons of [TS]

  cameras and this like the and her junk [TS]

  dealer guy was in Paris I repair okay [TS]

  yeah yeah but my the bit that made me [TS]

  laugh with her was you know when her and [TS]

  Finn first meet and there's the whole [TS]

  like why you keep grabbing my hand like [TS]

  I know how to run let go but then when [TS]

  they get when the team gets blown up [TS]

  attacked by Tie Fighters they get [TS]

  blasted back and they're sort of both [TS]

  you know recovering they get up and he [TS]

  immediately turns around goes you're [TS]

  right [TS]

  and she's already on her feet and she [TS]

  doesn't even say much she just looks at [TS]

  me cuz ya yet to come on one I laughed [TS]

  so hard at that because there is such [TS]

  such an inversion of a stereo too i like [TS]

  that where he was running towards the [TS]

  fight I menu by the time it gets there [TS]

  she's already to meet everybody and he [TS]

  just kind of yet she perseveres all that [TS]

  will weekend when you watch it again in [TS]

  that same just look specifically at [TS]

  Daisy Ridley's active just an expression [TS]

  she is so good cause she barely says [TS]

  anything but our expression says [TS]

  everything in that moment it's so good i [TS]

  mean there's so many explicit colors [TS]

  like this thing where Hannah is trying [TS]

  to give her a blaster and she's like I [TS]

  can take care of myself and he's like [TS]

  yeah I know that's why I'm doing your [TS]

  blood that was very good [TS]

  yes it was yeah yeah yeah she's she's [TS]

  brilliant and like I don't get so you [TS]

  know coming at this from the perspective [TS]

  of you know a white guy [TS]

  yeah i just don't get the people pushing [TS]

  back on this like I love fantasy and [TS]

  science fiction of all kinds he you know [TS]

  and years I've read books with female [TS]

  protagonist every book male protagonists [TS]

  are certainly a lot more of those [TS]

  I just don't get why people are so pissy [TS]

  about it yesterday hope that it isn't [TS]

  just a loud minority I mean yeah yeah I [TS]

  don't know when and I hope not and sorry [TS]

  i hope so because I really I I think [TS]

  she's a fabulous character I think she's [TS]

  fantastic [TS]

  I had so many friends especially in the [TS]

  comics industry community with young [TS]

  daughters and exactly i need to I need [TS]

  to talk to them I cannot wait to hear [TS]

  what their reaction is going to be about [TS]

  this movie and how overjoyed i know they [TS]

  are going to be that they can take their [TS]

  daughters that you know sort of seven [TS]

  eight nine year old daughter's to see a [TS]

  Star Wars movie and know that their [TS]

  daughter is going to be looking up on [TS]

  the screen in going that me [TS]

  yeah i mean this is exactly what so you [TS]

  know I'm saying I should return the Jedi [TS]

  to my cousin's kids who are both girls [TS]

  and I'm like I'm super-psyched about [TS]

  like now that they've seen you know four [TS]

  five and six and like now I get to you [TS]

  know we can hopefully we can take them [TS]

  to episode seven because i think they [TS]

  will be so excited by this you know in [TS]

  like you're having character you know [TS]

  characters who look like them up on the [TS]

  screen and who will get to [TS]

  like no kick ass with a lightsaber and [TS]

  you know that's awesome that's great i [TS]

  just i really hate the this backlash to [TS]

  this just makes me sad it makes me upset [TS]

  in you know and it's just like I wish [TS]

  these people would just sort of get over [TS]

  that and just enjoy enjoy a film that [TS]

  has a strong you know that's a strong [TS]

  female character but like to see a [TS]

  fully-realized just exclusively I just [TS]

  just a good character that she's wrong L [TS]

  is almost even secondary to that right [TS]

  like you know it's great that she's [TS]

  wonder like why are you fixating on that [TS]

  whatever woman it's not secondary [TS]

  because there are so few of them it [TS]

  really matters and I strong people [TS]

  character phrases a very i never use [TS]

  that I practice interesting female [TS]

  character i'd also want weak female [TS]

  characters who are cowards and [TS]

  frightened terrified scream as well I [TS]

  want to fill in broad range of all [TS]

  humanity things [TS]

  yeah I want to say not that I didn't [TS]

  mean strong as it only physically or [TS]

  emotionally stronger as like a a strong [TS]

  character a character was built well a [TS]

  three-dimensional character and I you [TS]

  know sometimes misunderstood phrase that [TS]

  is nation exactly they're already well [TS]

  lately wrong emphasis [TS]

  yeah yeah the well-developed character [TS]

  who is not just like they're as the [TS]

  girlfriend or someone to be like as in [TS]

  so many you know franchises killed off [TS]

  to give the male protagonist a reason to [TS]

  go do their thing right like all of that [TS]

  is terrible and it's just a little light [TS]

  it does matter [TS]

  I mean there's a there's a wonderful [TS]

  line that just weeding gave an interview [TS]

  many years ago which I have stolen and [TS]

  used myself many many times because I [TS]

  write comics and you know books and [TS]

  stuff with female protagonists almost [TS]

  exclusively not quite squishy but almost [TS]

  exclusively and whenever i get asked why [TS]

  why is this character or a woman why do [TS]

  you write you know focus on writing [TS]

  strong female characters i always give [TS]

  the same after the just we can get which [TS]

  is because it's 2015 and you're still [TS]

  asking me that question [TS]

  it's a very when he said it was 2003 but [TS]

  you know your hands are getting but you [TS]

  get the point [TS]

  hey I didn't mean to say that it's [TS]

  unimportant that she is a female [TS]

  character obviously you know I think [TS]

  that's it's tremendously gratifying to [TS]

  see that in a in a Star Wars story [TS]

  honestly because why not [TS]

  I guess is like they always the thing [TS]

  come down to is likewise [TS]

  there's no conceivable reason this [TS]

  should be the domain of you know of of [TS]

  men in any way and you know say what you [TS]

  want for the the prequels but at least [TS]

  they did you know develop you know [TS]

  female Jedi they had like a little bit [TS]

  more representation in some of those [TS]

  like you know whether than in the [TS]

  original trilogy we're all of this Jedi [TS]

  that we see our men and especially if [TS]

  you can go on and watch the Clone Wars [TS]

  or Star Wars rebels TV series in which [TS]

  there are many female characters who [TS]

  play really important roles in our [TS]

  awesome you know it's it's great to see [TS]

  that reflected in the in the main [TS]

  franchise have you seen the I think it's [TS]

  the sort of lego star wars droid tails i [TS]

  think the little a TV series because i [TS]

  know of them but i have wanted that [TS]

  they're fantastic the most recent what I [TS]

  saw had the best line in it and somebody [TS]

  says to you de there aren't many women [TS]

  in the star wars universe or something [TS]

  like that and he says men fix this in [TS]

  the future shall we [TS]

  they're very good and self-referential [TS]

  the things yet and in the prequels where [TS]

  we do have a lot of more at least not a [TS]

  lot of women and in the background [TS]

  playing Jedi and suchlike in effect a [TS]

  bit parts of you got any lines at all [TS]

  the nice thing is the dead t quite a lot [TS]

  of those in the Clone Wars and give them [TS]

  actual character things which I schools [TS]

  is one minor redeeming feature of the [TS]

  prequel movies it's got cool north and [TS]

  oh my god Star Wars rebels is amazing [TS]

  again it just makes me better that I was [TS]

  not given this at the appropriate age [TS]

  because Hera who's piloting the ship [TS]

  she's at we like smuggler pilot with a [TS]

  smuggler shit she's like oh oh you're [TS]

  the capture that clean star wars and the [TS]

  old republic it because I like smuggling [TS]

  and yeah its just oh it's just you feel [TS]

  validated like a real person when you [TS]

  see reflections on the television it's [TS]

  great exactly and the whole business of [TS]

  her being overpowered as well again when [TS]

  i watched it again i was really watching [TS]

  for this and I you may have seen it [TS]

  floating around online it's become a bit [TS]

  of a has been passed around a lot idem a [TS]

  graphic talking about the original [TS]

  trilogy in pointing out how Luke heart [TS]

  and [TS]

  veda well on the prequels were all [TS]

  incredibly high powered characters you [TS]

  know they were all trapped crack shots [TS]

  or some pilots great engineers hard was [TS]

  multilingual uh huh you know if princess [TS]

  fell in love with him [TS]

  Luke destroyed the Death Star with his [TS]

  eyes closed aveda became the most feared [TS]

  sit in the galaxy after being hacked to [TS]

  pieces and survived all this stuff and [TS]

  yet people are saying ray is overpowered [TS]

  because she helps harm fix the [TS]

  Millennium Falcon and she beats what is [TS]

  clearly a fairly novice Seth in a [TS]

  lightsaber fight and he's injured very [TS]

  badly injured by the way and she still [TS]

  almost gets beaten by him [TS]

  so this whole idea that she's [TS]

  overpowered is just absolutely absurd [TS]

  and I I guarantee if in an alternate [TS]

  alternate universe where this is a male [TS]

  character not a single person anywhere [TS]

  is saying always a bit overpowered that [TS]

  character is any we want that matter [TS]

  that there are overpowered it's not a [TS]

  video game where you have to have some [TS]

  sort of you know Bella understand we are [TS]

  not these things are fictional people we [TS]

  have to be you know exactly as they are [TS]

  real life with their hyper spaces and [TS]

  laser swords and that's right [TS]

  empires and grownup a son draining the [TS]

  song that you're orbiting of energy to [TS]

  fire web now I mean you know yes its [TS]

  star wars and the physics doesn't make [TS]

  any sense but that that was the one bit [TS]

  that I was like wait a second [TS]

  but if we're going to get into arguing [TS]

  that ABA can't go on sand then 20 cm [TS]

  completely be but that actually is a [TS]

  very good point something i had problem [TS]

  with was when they actually fired the [TS]

  weapon selection crossed arms no matter [TS]

  how fast is that energy going because [TS]

  they say afterwards that it so it is a [TS]

  hyper-lightspeed weapon [TS]

  ok that's ok that's fine then I [TS]

  obviously missed that line for me [TS]

  probably munching popcorn [TS]

  I'm oh no I only spotted on on second [TS]

  viewing and I'm actually i'm less fine [TS]

  with the fact that everybody else sees [TS]

  it instantly [TS]

  yeah but after detonating bag but but [TS]

  calling a hyper-lightspeed is totally [TS]

  fine then but there was a comment that [TS]

  everybody saw it at once because there [TS]

  was a terror [TS]

  hyperspace was the club i had that is [TS]

  that is that if we say that assumes [TS]

  facts not in evidence yeah yeah but i'll [TS]

  buy it [TS]

  JJ Abrams I think said so but draining [TS]

  the Sun less so [TS]

  well yeah yeah well I i will say yeah [TS]

  that was there there are a lot of things [TS]

  to him without me again if you go back [TS]

  and look at the original trilogy you [TS]

  know for years the nerves of hand weight [TS]

  over the Kessel run in 12 parts and yeah [TS]

  yeah we need to hang a lantern on here [TS]

  we can write about it but you know a [TS]

  hell it doesn't really matter it's [TS]

  science fiction in this not even science [TS]

  fiction it's fantasy right like brothers [TS]

  in this isn't our universe projected [TS]

  forward space long time ago it's a far [TS]

  far away don't worry too much just don't [TS]

  worry it's just a show just relax I'm [TS]

  but it to talk about sort of bad physics [TS]

  and throw back to the original what is [TS]

  it with the Empire putting all these [TS]

  vital switches and the universe like [TS]

  halfway down a cliff face and you know [TS]

  like the truly original tractor beam [TS]

  around the back of a do you know on a [TS]

  tiny little walkway over in a bit but [TS]

  that's how you switch the tractor beam [TS]

  off is it there's a workplace standards [TS]

  in outer space the Empire and the first [TS]

  order both are really they don't really [TS]

  care too much about employee safety [TS]

  their health plans are terrible I don't [TS]

  worry but when Ray's climbing down the [TS]

  wall in the hangar she sees that switch [TS]

  and I'm like why is there even a leaver [TS]

  there [TS]

  what are you gonna do fly a starship and [TS]

  leaned out the window employees to do is [TS]

  just like a closet or something [TS]

  the engineering teams must like have [TS]

  this Union who are look so annoyed and [TS]

  pissed off [TS]

  they're like okay you know what we're [TS]

  going to do guys we can get a clear idea [TS]

  of grabbing whatever over there they say [TS]

  anything about it then there'll be no [TS]

  livre so yeah they're just staring at [TS]

  them tapping their foot you wanted a [TS]

  lever I think this just seller is the [TS]

  sum architect that we haven't seen yet [TS]

  and you like really like designing rhyme [TS]

  battle stage that was one of my favorite [TS]

  another year awards reviews way they [TS]

  were like no we were taking up the Death [TS]

  Star this was the Death Star [TS]

  this is our you what it's just like the [TS]

  death star 10 times bigger [TS]

  yeah hot even go so long ago [TS]

  so about yeah it's a bit like the the [TS]

  monty python and the holy grail thing [TS]

  with the castles in the swamp isn't it [TS]

  burned down fell over and then sank into [TS]

  the swamp knob solicit a completely [TS]

  seriously of course talking about [TS]

  architect the other thing i noticed was [TS]

  one of the ways they made it really feel [TS]

  like the original trilogy was on [TS]

  Starkiller base those like vertical [TS]

  lights in the walls which were nowhere [TS]

  really to be seen in the prequels butter [TS]

  all over the original trilogy and just [TS]

  that and the slanting corridor walls and [TS]

  things like so many little design [TS]

  touches yes that do call back to the [TS]

  original trilogy [TS]

  yeah that was always a problem with the [TS]

  original prequels was as our technology [TS]

  progressed out here and yet in the star [TS]

  wars universe where I remember thinking [TS]

  that the time like how are they going to [TS]

  explain how chintzy and terrible [TS]

  everything in the original shows at work [TS]

  and it turns out that's exactly what [TS]

  they did was like the sort of backpedal [TS]

  they were like how it was a golden age [TS]

  everything was much more organic and lua [TS]

  and like okay that's not impossible [TS]

  there are plenty of architectural and [TS]

  design school changes if you looked you [TS]

  know 30 40 years in the past now you [TS]

  would see very different things then you [TS]

  see today and if you project that [TS]

  forward you would be very different [TS]

  things as well but it never ended up [TS]

  feeling like star wars because of that [TS]

  and so I love that they clearly use [TS]

  modern technology to build all of these [TS]

  sets and everything and yet the design [TS]

  of them in the aesthetic of them is does [TS]

  not clash with the original trilogy [TS]

  running it suddenly done and it's not [TS]

  like you have all the same like crazy [TS]

  blinking lights and see there's a CRT [TS]

  monitor which is sort of how you go in [TS]

  the wrong direction about that but it is [TS]

  nice they tip their hat without you no [TS]

  feeling like that too [TS]

  slavish Lee adhere to what the original [TS]

  trilogy look like yeah and one other you [TS]

  may not notice so much but I'm sure us [TS]

  three did one of the thing that made it [TS]

  feel like the original trilogy minimal [TS]

  amount of British character actors yeah [TS]

  even thing that was the that was the [TS]

  thing that took me out the film [TS]

  absolutely the most was the Scottish [TS]

  accent on that gangly yes I don't bear [TS]

  the risk free drinks it was an accident [TS]

  i don't know the idea was a perfectly [TS]

  fine acts and it was just like you know [TS]

  this is space while the Scottish people [TS]

  were not these people are everywhere any [TS]

  Oh have you seen starter but i don't [TS]

  know what i mean but it's something like [TS]

  in dog poo [TS]

  I'm absolutely happy for all the [TS]

  Scottish this in it and i love that the [TS]

  the doctor [TS]

  the doctor [TS]

  scottish again and but unless it was [TS]

  just it was like the one thing knows I'm [TS]

  just gonna English accent and American [TS]

  accents haha yeah yeah okay so I'm gonna [TS]

  get thrown out of the country for this [TS]

  comment but high but it was just it was [TS]

  I think it was the thing was when he [TS]

  spoke there was a big laugh in the [TS]

  cinema because we're really yeah because [TS]

  everybody's like what is going on [TS]

  otherwise what you are you allowed to go [TS]

  so there ya how I didn't really see it [TS]

  was dignified groans of my cinema [TS]

  another well kind of but the one that [TS]

  really got me was Harriet Walter who [TS]

  plays the nurse how tattoo don't want to [TS]

  lose her face and I kept being like why [TS]

  do I know her [TS]

  yeah attending to go you must have been [TS]

  very brave yeah it's likely that that [TS]

  was i'm actually even a little bit sad [TS]

  that john-boy it doesn't get to use this [TS]

  actual accent though I could see the eye [TS]

  could see the same people who are upset [TS]

  about rave throwing a fit over who two [TS]

  main characters with British accent with [TS]

  isn't Star Wars was America [TS]

  yeah i did like the the in people did [TS]

  not appear the first-order we're [TS]

  sticking with the British accent thing [TS]

  we even though there are means they're [TS]

  all evil but what everything we've [TS]

  always been the village but what [TS]

  interested me was em in the original [TS]

  trilogy the module the officers and the [TS]

  contractors from Green shell and [TS]

  luxurious turning up naturally they're [TS]

  all tending towards middle-aged men [TS]

  whereas in this one and the even general [TS]

  it was was very young and call you know [TS]

  it was a nice nor to the fact that the [TS]

  old Empire that have been around for at [TS]

  least a generation that was aging a bit [TS]

  where is this is a fresh young fascist [TS]

  regime and young people are signing up [TS]

  and you can get straight to the top of [TS]

  you join up young people and want to [TS]

  have washed and fashion kill millions [TS]

  most of the old people got blowed up so [TS]

  also the exactly yeah burn down fell [TS]

  over into the swamp and asthma [TS]

  yes speaking speaking of minor [TS]

  characters [TS]

  oh my goodness why I mean I love [TS]

  gwendoline christie and nobody nobody so [TS]

  I'm sure she will be back but didn't [TS]

  feel she was kind of wasted [TS]

  yeah i mean it was like she's the boba [TS]

  fett [TS]

  oh yeah he's a really cool character [TS]

  design completely wasted and everybody [TS]

  be dressing up as her for years to come [TS]

  but maybe a chance for something good [TS]

  next week I mean she got like hope so [TS]

  yeah they were gonna put down a garbage [TS]

  chute and like I trying to really enjoy [TS]

  that line though that like this is I [TS]

  liked it but I mean she gave up far too [TS]

  easily it was like you know you didn't [TS]

  she [TS]

  until the head all yo kal-el you know [TS]

  lower the shields and do everything no [TS]

  you won't you'll like these dr. take a [TS]

  little more ass [TS]

  yeah but yet nobody so she will be back [TS]

  and Mars as well there was no even [TS]

  though her entire place was completely [TS]

  river I assume she's totally fine [TS]

  yeah there's nobody so you know she'll [TS]

  you don't need your Jabra speaking of [TS]

  those ruins did anybody else get a [TS]

  really really strong Lord of the Rings [TS]

  vibe when the Empire not the Empire [TS]

  sorry the first-order landed and [TS]

  colorings walking through the ruins [TS]

  while the battle goes on i was thinking [TS]

  i was Gillian isn't it you know it [TS]

  reminded me a little bit of a the end of [TS]

  a new hope with the the Mayan temples [TS]

  and you haven't for I don't have it's [TS]

  like viber that going on which was not [TS]

  bad i really enjoyed the design of just [TS]

  the outside of the place which almost [TS]

  feels like that with the there's almost [TS]

  like nepalese prayer flags like many [TS]

  flags across the it again it's a nice i [TS]

  feel like you do a nice job but this is [TS]

  this film does a nice job of the alien [TS]

  environments that it does display even [TS]

  though some of them are you know things [TS]

  that are callbacks like jakku feels very [TS]

  much like Tatooine although a little [TS]

  more from you know littered with debris [TS]

  and a little more sparsely populated [TS]

  even and but that's faisal that's very [TS]

  populated because they drop some Star [TS]

  Destroyers on everything from the [TS]

  Greenwich cool was that it [TS]

  well was it did feel different tattoo [TS]

  which is a pretty impressive given the [TS]

  bulls as far as we know their desert [TS]

  planets it's and sound everywhere and [TS]

  yet you're there is a very much [TS]

  different feel to a different culture [TS]

  and and obviously jacket looks amazing [TS]

  with what we did with the with the [TS]

  salvage and the debris just littered [TS]

  there that was thinking [TS]

  a massive star destroyer the other I [TS]

  think that was the moment actually in [TS]

  the trailer in the first trailer when I [TS]

  saw that bit in the trailer i was like [TS]

  'oh sold sold woman yeah it did have the [TS]

  same moisture farm like machine [TS]

  machinery as x is not a boy stur though [TS]

  I mean come on he's still in together [TS]

  I really like to the design of the areas [TS]

  surrounding the weapon on Starkiller [TS]

  base i like to know because it will say [TS]

  what you will about the Sun getting [TS]

  drained but it is it does provide that [TS]

  that lightsaber duel in the dark forest [TS]

  which I thought was going to happen just [TS]

  as hard eyes as well sure yeah it with [TS]

  Melanie knows maybe but i just i love [TS]

  the I love the look of the fight in the [TS]

  forest with the snow in the trees and [TS]

  the darkness like it's just it's it [TS]

  looks beautiful and it feels unlike a [TS]

  lot of the other Star Wars tools we've [TS]

  seen especially you know the more recent [TS]

  ones which always seem to end either [TS]

  there's lava or there's some other huge [TS]

  crazy background that was one of the [TS]

  Magnificent about things about this was [TS]

  the two seem to take the view of jewel [TS]

  back to the original children what made [TS]

  it so good around without having anyone [TS]

  do the most ridiculous over-the-top [TS]

  unlikely feats which were of course all [TS]

  times the force but having bits of [TS]

  building falling across lava that you [TS]

  just happened to jump to just sometimes [TS]

  it's just you know [TS]

  yeah it really felt like video games [TS]

  yeah well more than about the fights and [TS]

  the frequency to me felt like watching [TS]

  like a kendo exhibition or something [TS]

  we're generating that they didn't feel [TS]

  like actual fights they felt like people [TS]

  showing golf for the benefit of an [TS]

  audience and what's interesting about [TS]

  them is that they are callbacks to the [TS]

  original trilogy i remember you know [TS]

  before the prequels came out people [TS]

  saying I think Lucas probably saying [TS]

  like well you know all we've really seen [TS]

  they are untrained like an old men [TS]

  untrained boys and like a man who's more [TS]

  machine right now you know those are the [TS]

  only examples we have of sort of [TS]

  lightsaber duels and so when we got to [TS]

  the prequels they went like the other [TS]

  direction entirely right which is like [TS]

  the supertrain hyper competent Jedi [TS]

  doing flips and jumps and all sorts of [TS]

  crazy acrobatics and now we're back to [TS]

  sort of to essentially two kids who [TS]

  neither of whom is really super [TS]

  well-trained obviously I think [TS]

  Lorraine has the edge in training but [TS]

  he's not super competent in the way that [TS]

  any of those you know prequels character [TS]

  roller at best he's probably on par with [TS]

  luke from like Empire right you know and [TS]

  and so it's interesting to see that [TS]

  especially you know when you throw [TS]

  things in the next two who clearly is [TS]

  just like I've got a baseball bat right [TS]

  it's like you don't see what I can do [TS]

  with that you know it's it's very [TS]

  interesting to see the fight [TS]

  choreography you still looks great to my [TS]

  eyes and modern but it's also believably [TS]

  rough [TS]

  yeah and improvised improvisational [TS]

  speaking of rain trailers the snow and [TS]

  all that [TS]

  here's the thing where you all are [TS]

  certainly was waiting for the bit where [TS]

  he walks into frame and lights the [TS]

  lightsaber and then the crossguard like [TS]

  where was that the were to the best of [TS]

  my knowledge and recollection there were [TS]

  four shots in those or four things about [TS]

  the trailers over there are several yeah [TS]

  well in this movie there's that bit [TS]

  where he walks into the forest and we [TS]

  see the the four-pronged three-pronged [TS]

  lightsaber for the first time there is [TS]

  the Stormtrooper the view of the [TS]

  Stormtrooper landing craft opening from [TS]

  the inside which we never see in the [TS]

  movie there is a raised line there were [TS]

  stories about what happened and you know [TS]

  they cut that with harm talk about the [TS]

  forces think it's all true it's all real [TS]

  she never says that and a smoke saying [TS]

  the dark side and the lights [TS]

  yes that part I card that he did say [TS]

  that in some of the shots are you know [TS]

  obviously as you do oftentimes in [TS]

  trailers they cut things differently [TS]

  here for example in the in the third [TS]

  trailer where they have the minute were [TS]

  the the shot of the ship taking off and [TS]

  then the shot of Ray kind of looking [TS]

  away wistfully which are two different [TS]

  shots in the Aviators the scene where [TS]

  she's looking wistfully is that the old [TS]

  woman scrubbing things and there's the [TS]

  scene later on with the with the ship [TS]

  taking off so you know can't actually [TS]

  there are different elements they're my [TS]

  biggest complaint about Native flip some [TS]

  shots as well near that sort of editing [TS]

  you expect but the fact that there were [TS]

  literally shots in there i mean the one [TS]

  with with rain especially it's almost as [TS]

  if that [TS]

  was filmed specifically for the trailer [TS]

  because it wouldn't even make much sense [TS]

  in if it was in the movie you know right [TS]

  right and i think he doesn't even have [TS]

  his helmet on at that point either which [TS]

  is another I know that's true yeah and [TS]

  which I was thinking about but the thing [TS]

  that ticks me off them horses that I [TS]

  love the trailer music i love the [TS]

  trailer music so much and it's all [TS]

  specific to the trailer a lot of its [TS]

  recut versions of original movie themes [TS]

  some of which are used in the score [TS]

  elsewhere but those particular [TS]

  constructions for the trailers aren't [TS]

  anywhere i just want i think we stay [TS]

  just throwing them as tracks on the end [TS]

  of the soundtrack even that would have [TS]

  been plenty fine for me because those [TS]

  are so well put together sometimes they [TS]

  can't know because there by different [TS]

  people [TS]

  those are all john williams i I'd first [TS]

  certain I mean he's talking about he's [TS]

  specifically wrote music for that first [TS]

  time is Erica and the other stuff is [TS]

  definitely stuff from clearly from [TS]

  earlier you know the original trilogy [TS]

  essentially the force theme stuff it's [TS]

  just the arrangements are slightly [TS]

  different right i only say that because [TS]

  sometimes some trailers though like will [TS]

  use songs that are literally from like [TS]

  other movies and some of them will use [TS]

  music that is actually written for the [TS]

  trailer but by a different composer the [TS]

  best example modern example that is the [TS]

  music that everybody associates with [TS]

  inception [TS]

  no not arrogant or thrown right well not [TS]

  just that but the just the sort of this [TS]

  the string bit yeah with that goes over [TS]

  that goes under that rather everybody [TS]

  thinks that that's in the movie and it's [TS]

  not there's something like that in the [TS]

  movie by is a and Zimmer I think I'm but [TS]

  that's not the same thing and the music [TS]

  in the trailer is a completely different [TS]

  track called mindcrime I think or mind [TS]

  Radar Online mind heist got there in the [TS]

  end by completely from composer and was [TS]

  written i believe for that trailer so [TS]

  it's not on the original soundtrack even [TS]

  you have to if you want to get that I've [TS]

  got it you have to buy it separately as [TS]

  like its own something because it's yeah [TS]

  just a bit different so i wondered if [TS]

  that might be the case but you say it's [TS]

  not easy is all day i'm pretty sure i [TS]

  know for a fact that the first trailer [TS]

  was john william so i would really [TS]

  assume the next ones were or [TS]

  and worse are cobbled together versions [TS]

  of stuff from the earlier from the [TS]

  original trilogy because it's got all [TS]

  the themes just you know it's put [TS]

  together indifferently as someone who [TS]

  spent a lifetime this thing starts epic [TS]

  I i can tell you where all the cuts are [TS]

  and where all the like little segways [TS]

  are and everything I think one of the [TS]

  things that impressed me about the film [TS]

  0 means that it was a good film is that [TS]

  when i was watching it wasn't really [TS]

  deconstructing it and I wasn't something [TS]

  so upsetting like going all I like that [TS]

  piece of music or that special effect [TS]

  doesn't work or that kind of thing I was [TS]

  just so totally in it really until it [TS]

  ended I mean there's just a couple of [TS]

  things like with the the the smoke and [TS]

  and the Scottish mist which I'll shut up [TS]

  go on James come on it was just you know [TS]

  for most of it i was just you know it's [TS]

  it's a whole thing which i was [TS]

  experiencing there was i tried to do [TS]

  that with the music actually I was [TS]

  trying to listen for themes and the [TS]

  first time we heard raised theme which i [TS]

  think is when she is sitting in her [TS]

  little at apartment watching ships blast [TS]

  often you know wearing her x-wing helmet [TS]

  for fun and they play her theme i think [TS]

  that's her thing play for the first time [TS]

  and I specifically thought I this must [TS]

  be her theme i will listen to it and try [TS]

  and remember it and then listen out for [TS]

  it when I hear it again later in the [TS]

  movie and then of course 10 minutes [TS]

  later she gets in the Millennium Falcon [TS]

  from that point on [TS]

  forget it i don't know matter thinking [TS]

  in my brain but whatsoever because that [TS]

  is that was the first bit we're from the [TS]

  moment they get in the falken to the [TS]

  moment they escaped the planet in the [TS]

  fall can escape the TIE fighters i [TS]

  suddenly realized that i had just been [TS]

  grinning like a lunatic for the previous [TS]

  ten minutes and you know from that point [TS]

  on again I was alright i mean i'm sold [TS]

  online i am now just enjoying and [TS]

  watching this movie because that whole [TS]

  sequence with the falken was just so [TS]

  great so pitch perfect so I mean [TS]

  perfectly and obviously it sort of [TS]

  nostalgic all men like me but the kids [TS]

  around me seems to be really getting [TS]

  into it as well really excited about it [TS]

  as well [TS]

  yeah is a gruesome [TS]

  amazing there obviously being a fan he [TS]

  he does have a template for what not to [TS]

  do which I think must have been very [TS]

  handy because you don't often have that [TS]

  go into making another movie but am but [TS]

  knowing the weight of those of certain [TS]

  particular moments and managing to get [TS]

  them right [TS]

  each one happening i think that the [TS]

  return of the introduction of the [TS]

  millennium fawlcon them finding that [TS]

  first of all as the garbage but I didn't [TS]

  even registered there or you have the [TS]

  garbage and joke until did actually [TS]

  we're heading for the full conversely [TS]

  undead hatchery and heart and hand [TS]

  coming on board and it was just worse [TS]

  and i think it was perfect of all was [TS]

  the reunion between han and Leia and [TS]

  have the cut through it with citi field [TS]

  thinking is added this made my also do [TS]

  you probably don't know recognize me [TS]

  thank you yeah perfect three PR but I [TS]

  think maybe cracked me up more than that [TS]

  they get a huge laugh in the city man i [TS]

  was watching it everybody was just yet [TS]

  because it you're right perfect 3pm and [TS]

  yeah there was so many parts of this [TS]

  that were kind of yes they were [TS]

  throwbacks and little callbacks for the [TS]

  benefit of nostalgic people like us but [TS]

  like I say you know those moments did [TS]

  get certainly in the cinema where I was [TS]

  watching it did get you know laughs and [TS]

  cheers and excitement and stuff from the [TS]

  kids watching it is also i really i have [TS]

  really high hopes that you know this [TS]

  will engender a whole new generation of [TS]

  Star Wars fans [TS]

  well I'm gonna this presumably going to [TS]

  be people who have seen this that this [TS]

  is the first i was feeling they've seen [TS]

  some true i actually went with one and I [TS]

  i wish i had i don't like because here [TS]

  yeah well I wish I would have talked to [TS]

  her a little bit more afterwards against [TS]

  my life my best friend from college his [TS]

  wife who we've tried to watch star wars [TS]

  with before she falls asleep every time [TS]

  I know and so I know I know always a [TS]

  good scene so we were little qualities [TS]

  had to go to this one so she's never [TS]

  seen any of them all the way through and [TS]

  so we were trying to get an idea for [TS]

  afterwards what you thought about that [TS]

  and I would like to like get a chance to [TS]

  pin her down a little more and be like [TS]

  so what did [TS]

  actually think but I think she was I [TS]

  think she stayed awake so that's a good [TS]

  sign [TS]

  ok times up lighter up all right [TS]

  kylo Ren what do we think of him as a [TS]

  villain I like that he was basically a [TS]

  stroppy teenager [TS]

  yeah well and I I loved his tantrum with [TS]

  the lightsaber where he said smashes [TS]

  look like and then people just up the [TS]

  stormtroopers backing away clearly have [TS]

  been there before and they hope they [TS]

  glow just to get away I have what he [TS]

  yeah he's an immature kid I think I [TS]

  think James totally right and i think [TS]

  one of the fascinating things to me [TS]

  about having thought about this for the [TS]

  last couple days is that in some ways [TS]

  he's the dark reflection of luke from [TS]

  the original yes yes and we get that so [TS]

  much through through his story up to the [TS]

  point where he faced with his father can [TS]

  kill him right on i was just 18 that's [TS]

  part of the reason that why i think this [TS]

  move manager sports well there's so many [TS]

  bits of it that have reflections in the [TS]

  original trilogy and that I think have [TS]

  been disparaged in some places as being [TS]

  it's kind of more of a remake than a new [TS]

  movie but i think particularly for Star [TS]

  Wars it works so well because it is all [TS]

  about the funeral of a cycle of the [TS]

  legend the two and flowing between the [TS]

  dark side and the light side and for [TS]

  this to be the next generation we're [TS]

  getting like and and for the actual fact [TS]

  if you are interested in what happened [TS]

  what the previous event generations [TS]

  adventures were like you don't catch the [TS]

  prequels to look at if you were a fan of [TS]

  the star wars if you're a fan of these [TS]

  star wars want to know what lasts like [TS]

  you've got proper movies to look at [TS]

  which I just think is very kind [TS]

  don't-don't-don't you know Liz that the [TS]

  entire prequel is in fact full of [TS]

  rapport prequels are replete with all [TS]

  please don't actually all right is [TS]

  everything alright alright I waiting for [TS]

  them to like BBA rolling through the [TS]

  back of the prefect about of my really [TS]

  like the ren wasn't that they didn't [TS]

  even try to make another Vader break [TS]

  he's abusive Vader wanna be there yet [TS]

  that's what is afraid of family yeah but [TS]

  must have been so attempting them [TS]

  you know basically cosplaying as deftly [TS]

  and yeah he's kind of like a [TS]

  personification of the writers [TS]

  frustrations of how am I going to live [TS]

  up to eight are right yeah yeah because [TS]

  you can't you can't and so I think it's [TS]

  great that they just stared away from [TS]

  that completely because let's face it if [TS]

  they had tried to make you know sort of [TS]

  a dora like they'd be getting criticisms [TS]

  probably from the same people who don't [TS]

  like Ren that they failed to make [TS]

  somebody as imposing lu lu will never [TS]

  make somebody who was as iconic and [TS]

  imposing is Veda is like so they didn't [TS]

  even try didn't happen try and instead [TS]

  make somebody really interesting and [TS]

  very very well performed I thought I'd [TS]

  never i had no idea who Adam driver even [TS]

  was never seen girls never heard of him [TS]

  before something the last couple of days [TS]

  I've heard they learned he was and I [TS]

  thought he was brilliant [TS]

  he's greatness that I thought the best [TS]

  analysis of kylo Ren is a character i [TS]

  read a review that my friend Matt [TS]

  transpo stood somewhere and he mentioned [TS]

  how in some ways calorie is kind of the [TS]

  embodiment of all those people that we [TS]

  were just talking about who are so [TS]

  annoying [TS]

  gray like listen essentially kind of a [TS]

  troll right like and there is almost [TS]

  that element at the end where he tells [TS]

  you know to tell is a thinner ray that [TS]

  he's like that's my lightsaber basically [TS]

  with with Luke's original lightsaber [TS]

  it's when Finn has it yeah yeah and he's [TS]

  like it is it that you know there's [TS]

  almost an element of possession of that [TS]

  like no you're not you're not really old [TS]

  age yet I yeah you're just half a Jedi [TS]

  boy and so I think it's great that he is [TS]

  kind of like in some ways that is sort [TS]

  of the manifestation of of Medicine [TS]

  villainy in our in our society today in [TS]

  the same way that like you know I think [TS]

  back to when you know in Raiders of the [TS]

  Lost Ark where were Spielberg is using [TS]

  sort of the Nazis and how the Nazis [TS]

  become shorthand and you know obviously [TS]

  the Empire borrows a lot from that [TS]

  iconography and stuff and and we don't [TS]

  necessarily even more so [TS]

  right right and we don't even we don't [TS]

  necessarily have that as something [TS]

  that's a you know the kind of threats [TS]

  that we deal with in the win the world [TS]

  today right there isn't like that sort [TS]

  of you know Nazi Party German sweeping [TS]

  Europe thing but there is [TS]

  menace and and just sort of her from vet [TS]

  that they're not to make this political [TS]

  pockets but there is a menace and [TS]

  venomous acted like the internet and [TS]

  like just the sort of like that that [TS]

  prepossession with like I'm right you're [TS]

  wrong i don't know that whole egotism it [TS]

  is whiny teenager name is like so much [TS]

  of the menace that we face these days [TS]

  that in some ways it makes a better [TS]

  resonant villainy than that then that [TS]

  retread of the original wood it's a more [TS]

  modern feel and I saw somebody referred [TS]

  to him as mr a safe at that [TS]

  yeah you could do worse than that that's [TS]

  pretty good [TS]

  no i think i think the the fascism that [TS]

  they were sort of riffing on here was [TS]

  especially with calling their leader is [TS]

  going supremely just and waited in [TS]

  general is living speech his arms it [TS]

  spins bit more and miscellany and guilty [TS]

  then dead Swartz that's in there is sort [TS]

  of poking fun etete and rush because [TS]

  here [TS]

  yeah because the the Italian fascists if [TS]

  we let if you are ridiculous in many [TS]

  many ways and between especially and if [TS]

  you watch anything speeches it's very [TS]

  difficult to take him seriously because [TS]

  and they were definitely to me they felt [TS]

  like they were urging were in that [TS]

  direction and as an enable I charges a [TS]

  subtle poking fun at it which is what [TS]

  you should do because it's terrible [TS]

  terrible thing and it should be laughed [TS]

  at [TS]

  but and but ya know that was interesting [TS]

  that the thing with a color end that [TS]

  surprised me was his parents were [TS]

  because I went into the film absolutely [TS]

  convinced well ray is clearly going to [TS]

  be you know hand layers daughter and [TS]

  kyler n might be Luke Skywalker's son or [TS]

  something like that and i think it's [TS]

  probably the complete opposite is true [TS]

  and and they draw on them they drop that [TS]

  within about you know whatever is 20 [TS]

  minutes into the film where smoke says a [TS]

  your you know your father or something [TS]

  and go all right [TS]

  yes it is she's it when Ray's escapes is [TS]

  like a skate with the help of your [TS]

  father [TS]

  yeah in in the Millennium Falcon with [TS]

  your father Han Solo is ok let's lay all [TS]

  I can almost [TS]

  offhandedly which was kind of odd for me [TS]

  it wasn't like there's no column actic [TS]

  reveal their it's just like it's just [TS]

  like oh btdubs but i think that i think [TS]

  you're right that's a good subversion [TS]

  because it means we don't have the whole [TS]

  eye on your father thing you know sort [TS]

  of because people would have been [TS]

  expecting that I am your son yeah other [TS]

  way again which it does is interpreting [TS]

  and reinterpreting the original children [TS]

  in its own way for the new generation [TS]

  type thing which i wish someone would [TS]

  just go through all the points where it [TS]

  does that I'm sure somebody thinks [TS]

  they're the the advent fascinating what [TS]

  they've chosen to do with with the [TS]

  effectively that the characters in The [TS]

  Legend this time round as soon as [TS]

  somebody gets hold of a DVD copy i'm [TS]

  sure that they will do exactly that [TS]

  so I just segue raise parentage easy [TS]

  no I don't be like all four well no I [TS]

  eat I want to do not harden layers [TS]

  daughter I wanted to be not be anybody's [TS]

  daughter [TS]

  well as you i would actually prefer that [TS]

  as well but I think it's fairly clear [TS]

  from all the emphasis on her about her [TS]

  family and lineage that that's not going [TS]

  to be the case [TS]

  I mean if she's hands daughter I mean [TS]

  that the phrase that popped into my head [TS]

  was is your kids hand something's gotta [TS]

  be done about your haha ah when [TS]

  Christopher Lloyd shows about this movie [TS]

  is really out there but I think I mean [TS]

  just with the handover of the lightsaber [TS]

  in in the last scene there seemed to be [TS]

  you know I don't know if Luke was going [TS]

  she looks vaguely familiar and I'm and [TS]

  her on a planet [TS]

  oh i thought you say I must look as much [TS]

  like antagonists I can [TS]

  yeah well that's right yes I do is that [TS]

  I think there's a residence in the story [TS]

  of her being so much like Luke in her [TS]

  upbringing that makes it a little too [TS]

  over-the-top if she is also Luke's [TS]

  actual daughter because in some ways [TS]

  it's like well I've got to turn my [TS]

  daughter into an awesome Jed I'll do [TS]

  exactly what was done with me recipe [TS]

  work greats like I I should leave around [TS]

  a desert planet and but the day and she [TS]

  can watch her mentor get killed by an [TS]

  evil safe exact [TS]

  and I feel like in some ways the [TS]

  residence and I talked a little bit [TS]

  about this on the incomparable uh [TS]

  previously was the whole like just a [TS]

  Campbell sort of hero cycle right like [TS]

  there is enough that it's a her story is [TS]

  already an echo of Luke's mom that you [TS]

  don't have to be belabored by have [TS]

  making her necessarily related someone [TS]

  else yes there are clearly questions [TS]

  about her parentage I just mean that [TS]

  will get resolved i'm just also not [TS]

  clear how much it needs to be I felt [TS]

  like it did she didn't need that extra [TS]

  level of motivation she already seems [TS]

  pretty related fact that they didn't [TS]

  resolve and they left it open means that [TS]

  there are at least thinking about it and [TS]

  I mean the thing is that all all they're [TS]

  not because one of the things that [TS]

  struck me at the time was how [TS]

  effectively in this you know in very [TS]

  very short sort of amount of screen time [TS]

  they established oh she was abandoned by [TS]

  parents she's waiting for them to come [TS]

  back they're never gonna come back [TS]

  isn't that terrible and you know the [TS]

  actual amount screens on that takes up [TS]

  is a tiny tiny portion of the movie and [TS]

  yet it's done very effectively and you [TS]

  know is a sort of strong enough that [TS]

  when she has that conversation with Mars [TS]

  about anonymous says they're never [TS]

  coming roughly you've got to look to the [TS]

  future [TS]

  that's a really powerful moment and so I [TS]

  was thinking like wow they did a really [TS]

  good job there but then of course then I [TS]

  started thinking wait hang on a second [TS]

  one for parents are important though [TS]

  there was something i read that was [TS]

  talking about some of the books i don't [TS]

  know if it was the novelization or [TS]

  something that suggests that the [TS]

  scavenger boss guy might be sort of [TS]

  keeping an eye on her for somebody and [TS]

  the fact that he he kept the Millennium [TS]

  Falcon and he didn't allow it to be [TS]

  scrapped and that there was of those [TS]

  some specific language about this so [TS]

  people will think I'm speculating that [TS]

  you know maybe he was the you know she [TS]

  was entrusted in something right to hear [TS]

  maybe if I actually feel really bad [TS]

  about all the transmedia stuff because [TS]

  loads of my friends in the industry are [TS]

  like doing that stuff working on you [TS]

  know I've got Karen Gillan's doing the [TS]

  Vedic comics Greg rockers doing novels [TS]

  Jason area is doing some [TS]

  like prequel comic so I think and you [TS]

  know I I just feel really bad because [TS]

  the hot like i said i avoided all [TS]

  spoilers so I did not read i have not [TS]

  read any of that stuff and I normally [TS]

  I'd normally try to read everything [TS]

  written by a lot of your that no sorry [TS]

  sorry not getting that no because I [TS]

  didn't want anything that could even [TS]

  risk even a hint of a spoiler [TS]

  so you might be right about that [TS]

  especially the trader but i have no idea [TS]

  i would totally strangle a gun to be [TS]

  able to work on one of the two or three [TS]

  Gungan there was something that the [TS]

  other thing was that the that character [TS]

  the incar plots or however it's [TS]

  pronounced apparently there were more [TS]

  scenes that were shot with him and there [TS]

  was one where to rip his arms off and [TS]

  clearly did he beat him a hollow chest [TS]

  and somebody must have said hmmm do we [TS]

  want actual dismember with wiki's or do [TS]

  we want to keep her nice pg-13 let the [TS]

  kids and certificate yes also damaged in [TS]

  revenge of the sith tonight so i don't [TS]

  have to change their mind or if there [TS]

  was more to that character that just [TS]

  didn't end up on the screen or maybe [TS]

  i'll end up enough to any subsequent one [TS]

  going back tonight and he'll have a red [TS]

  arms well that's a joke that's going to [TS]

  keep on giving that is no and I thought [TS]

  Finn was dead at the end because like [TS]

  they don't do really much of anything to [TS]

  convince you that he's not [TS]

  I up i only noticed again at the same [TS]

  time watching that he is breathing [TS]

  ever-so-slightly in that final shot way [TS]

  she kisses him on the foreign says i'll [TS]

  also you again make sure he was a dead [TS]

  body that they have covered him up or [TS]

  something you don't usually all the [TS]

  anger would have been a little lower [TS]

  yeah there would have been a little more [TS]

  I feel like fanfare over a yes to me I [TS]

  thought you liked it [TS]

  yeah it was a bit like hand frozen in [TS]

  carbonite you know he's yeah he's out [TS]

  for the camp and he'll be back next time [TS]

  I won't miss any tank and SS throw [TS]

  everything in waving right but if [TS]

  they've shown me back to tank then [TS]

  you're sure you know phone off his being [TS]

  healed but there was nobody attending to [TS]

  him then [TS]

  no medics anyway saying get out of the [TS]

  way we can fix and we have the [TS]

  technology it was probably a medical [TS]

  coma so that his body could recover from [TS]

  its grave his winnings and snow frost [TS]

  you might be right but would have killed [TS]

  them to have two words you know same was [TS]

  a little briefly ok they do say when [TS]

  they take him off the ship at the very [TS]

  end one of them and like Ray is talking [TS]

  to lay I think or something they say [TS]

  he's got a heartbeat someone in the [TS]

  background I really know what you guys [TS]

  had noticed that so I knew it was alive [TS]

  alright but i was thinking like maybe [TS]

  like his body is we've repaired his body [TS]

  but his mind is not functioning or [TS]

  something maybe have amnesia an [TS]

  excellent all the other way around you [TS]

  know [TS]

  yeah well I i look forward to seeing i [TS]

  really like thin as a character [TS]

  yeah I think he's he's an intriguing [TS]

  character because he is a he has [TS]

  elements of like he wants to do the [TS]

  right thing but he's also kind of a [TS]

  coward but he does really like you know [TS]

  I think the fact that he does do he does [TS]

  go through and try to do the right thing [TS]

  despite the fact that he's clearly [TS]

  really terrified [TS]

  it's just such a great character like it [TS]

  was a coward he was just really unsure [TS]

  of himself think we and what he trusted [TS]

  run i'm in the keys so he said that was [TS]

  his first bar fight there I mean he's [TS]

  never seen apostle before [TS]

  yeah it sounded like you have PTSD and [TS]

  you just want you exactly like yeah yeah [TS]

  yeah the only thing you express it sort [TS]

  of is that he's like you can't beat the [TS]

  first-order like I don't want anything [TS]

  to do with them i want to be out of here [TS]

  but he manages to get over that in [TS]

  because raised in trouble he's like you [TS]

  know I'm gonna I'm gonna go on this [TS]

  mission and he picks up the lightsaber [TS]

  to fight kylo Ren when you know like [TS]

  even though he probably has an idea that [TS]

  he's not really going to want to go so [TS]

  help [TS]

  yeah exactly but that like and that's [TS]

  that's heroism right like yeah it is the [TS]

  doing that when I don't think is a [TS]

  calendar right it's not he's got the I [TS]

  think maybe the the PTSD assessment is [TS]

  closer than not exactly cowardice but [TS]

  sort of a you know he's he's got fear [TS]

  right like he's conquering your fear and [TS]

  that is also a great beat because it is [TS]

  such a bit of the even if he is not a [TS]

  force-user that is such an element of [TS]

  the Jedi Code that there's almost [TS]

  something to being a Jedi without the [TS]

  force powers right like you know it's [TS]

  like the super it's like when you have [TS]

  superheroes who don't have powers and [TS]

  they're like you know I'm gonna do this [TS]

  anyways [TS]

  is the right thing to do you know I [TS]

  don't necessarily stand a chance [TS]

  I'm but I loved that he wasn't [TS]

  immediately self-assured and yeah just [TS]

  yeah you could see him getting to grips [TS]

  with bits and getting overexcited he [TS]

  when he's getting up in asthma face [TS]

  I'm in control now but he died down i'm [TS]

  only with the resistance but I love his [TS]

  reaction when he realized in that when [TS]

  he's in the back of the TIE fighter with [TS]

  Pope and he realizes that he's going to [TS]

  soften waiting he just thinks that he's [TS]

  rescuing a pilot and then posed like oh [TS]

  yeah the the droid down on the planet [TS]

  he's got like the map to Luke Skywalker [TS]

  because are you kidding me yeah i think [TS]

  is amazing and there are so many good [TS]

  jokes I really relate the that sire I [TS]

  really just really like the scene where [TS]

  he's basically negotiating with BBA not [TS]

  to sell em yeah yeah I know it's [TS]

  wonderful because he's only one talking [TS]

  and yet we know exactly what may be [TS]

  saying it's beautiful [TS]

  my favorite one is is that when he is [TS]

  like I just everyone wanna go back to [TS]

  jakku I don't want to go back to jail [TS]

  yeah well they really hit a gold mine in [TS]

  terms of I think the casting on all [TS]

  three of those major carrier yes yeah [TS]

  we're just were just perfect and you [TS]

  know it'sit's really i think to the [TS]

  strengths of JJ Abrams and his team that [TS]

  they are they are really good at casting [TS]

  if any if you want to take one thing [TS]

  away from this the star trek reboots [TS]

  they are really good at casting and [TS]

  actually a very good point yeah i think [TS]

  that they I think they chose really well [TS]

  with both Daisy Ridley who is a was a [TS]

  huge find right like she is she's been [TS]

  basically nothing before this and she [TS]

  just sort of G totally owns that John [TS]

  boyega is fantastic i really love him [TS]

  Oscar Isaac who is already sort of the [TS]

  he's the Harrison Ford that he's already [TS]

  like never even heard of before [TS]

  yeah I you I knew him he had been around [TS]

  to the coen brothers movie a couple [TS]

  years ago he had his star was definitely [TS]

  on the way out myself x macking out with [TS]

  right hands in the Andes in the next [TS]

  x-men movie too with a Domhnall Gleeson [TS]

  who gives you a general Hux and so I [TS]

  feel like he's the he's the Harrison [TS]

  Ford of this trilogy where it's like [TS]

  he's the most well-known the most [TS]

  well-established maybe not a huge star [TS]

  yet but like clearly on the way up [TS]

  whereas the other two are much less [TS]

  known the John Vega does have a couple [TS]

  features under his belt but they're just [TS]

  all three of them have tremendous [TS]

  chemistry [TS]

  they're all charming [TS]

  they're all charismatic they all do [TS]

  great jobs with their various characters [TS]

  and I just I'm so excited like I feel [TS]

  that's if nothing else [TS]

  Star Wars rest so heavily on its [TS]

  characters that I feel like the idea of [TS]

  what you took out like a like if you had [TS]

  action figures these guys and you were [TS]

  like you're a kid you're playing with [TS]

  action figures they all have such [TS]

  defined pair of personalities in a way [TS]

  that so many action movies I feel like [TS]

  well I'm just you know I'm archetype [TS]

  template number one I marketer and [TS]

  promoter can just go sighs yeah let's go [TS]

  on an adventure and it's like in this [TS]

  case know these guys have defined [TS]

  personalities into find traits that like [TS]

  if you were like sit down and like [TS]

  making up stories about them [TS]

  yeah in some ways it does start to write [TS]

  itself because they have these [TS]

  characters already you know defined for [TS]

  them so I just I just that was the [TS]

  biggest probably the prequels for known [TS]

  for the lack of characters i don't like [TS]

  a parent there's no one is a character [TS]

  in those movies and so that is so [TS]

  girlfriend lots of characters gotta put [TS]

  not a single personality between them [TS]

  and ya know it it's terrifying but can [TS]

  play in just occurred to me they're all [TS]

  going to be trying to do the kylo Ren [TS]

  voice you know like we all did that [TS]

  moron and 144 Vader in the playground [TS]

  they're all going to be trying to kylo [TS]

  Ren how do unless you've got a [TS]

  distortion pedal to hand how are you [TS]

  going to do that because it's massively [TS]

  over driven and a single total [TS]

  distortion I thought it was very easy to [TS]

  understand as well like other like Bane [TS]

  from Batman yeah but it was it was a [TS]

  similar kind of effect but it was just [TS]

  done so much better wear but it is kind [TS]

  of if you go back and listen to like [TS]

  early nineties industrial music an [TS]

  administrator knowledge now stuff that's [TS]

  what that is [TS]

  thats singing through a distortion pedal [TS]

  and this was clearly a filtered through [TS]

  the same kind of distortion and [TS]

  overdrive effects that you get with [TS]

  those pedals so how kids are going to [TS]

  try and emulate that I don't even want [TS]

  to get in trouble [TS]

  that's probably an iphone app for [TS]

  already hahaha other probably the star [TS]

  wars and I Apple have that eventually [TS]

  since they've got everything else in [TS]

  there [TS]

  yeah but I wasn't i went into this and I [TS]

  was really worried that wasn't going to [TS]

  like the new characters and I yeah it's [TS]

  down to the casting of the reasons i [TS]

  should have been more trusting because [TS]

  whatever other problems I have with the [TS]

  with the star trek maybe [TS]

  the one thing I'm was can argue with is [TS]

  that I'm really impressed by all [TS]

  accounts even the ones i don't quite [TS]

  like they're still decent enough and [TS]

  that's amazing considering there's like [TS]

  eight or nine of them but they have to [TS]

  recap so yeah absolutely we haven't [TS]

  mentioned Leah it's all very much [TS]

  right no that was glad I was pretty [TS]

  excited when I heard of this was the guy [TS]

  I picked up a handful of very very minor [TS]

  spoilers before we went in and one of [TS]

  the things was then used that she was [TS]

  going to be generally because i watch [TS]

  that interview with her or that was with [TS]

  the doggie and on that American with a [TS]

  thing [TS]

  the amazing interview yeah and I was [TS]

  just so exciting that she gets to be a [TS]

  general and do the way to find her [TS]

  character there with the relationship [TS]

  between hardhat and we instantly knew [TS]

  exactly what happened to it [TS]

  despite it being 35 years and picture of [TS]

  it was built up just like the picture of [TS]

  me in her past so quickly in just a few [TS]

  lines and yet it feels that all in and [TS]

  you can use a intentionally feeling with [TS]

  novels or something at some point but I [TS]

  leaving its imaginations they do it very [TS]

  well and having her returning simply [TS]

  return to what she does best and this is [TS]

  what she find satisfaction in her life [TS]

  calling is resistance lighting project [TS]

  oh that's brilliant gorilla [TS]

  yeah it was kind of great because i was [TS]

  thinking about that today actually and [TS]

  thinking how in all the Expanded [TS]

  Universe stuff that came before she's [TS]

  always positioned as much more of a [TS]

  diplomat a politician you know a leader [TS]

  but someone who is much more on the [TS]

  civilian side of things and it's so it's [TS]

  such a it's such a left turn from that [TS]

  and yet such a delightful welcome left [TS]

  turn and one that makes perfect sense [TS]

  given you know throwing all that out and [TS]

  going from what we have is canon I mean [TS]

  if you look at her roles in again having [TS]

  just watching the Jedi look at a role in [TS]

  that you know clearly this makes a lot [TS]

  of sense this is of course where her [TS]

  career would go right like she hasn't [TS]

  admitted she's developed a military [TS]

  background she spent all that time as a [TS]

  resistance fighter in the thick of [TS]

  things and she is clearly like a [TS]

  strategist and even as as she's gotten [TS]

  older she's probably gotten even more [TS]

  experience with that and so it is such a [TS]

  great such a great decision that [TS]

  I found like you just not where i was [TS]

  expecting things to go and yet something [TS]

  that made perfect sense to me that i [TS]

  just i really i really love that I think [TS]

  it's a great move [TS]

  yeah I know you're almost you might have [TS]

  been expecting her to be back leading [TS]

  the Senate or something you know back in [TS]

  the surrounding white robes and yeah [TS]

  becoming a senior diplomat or leader of [TS]

  the New Republic people were saying like [TS]

  oh she's now she's mom mom like she's [TS]

  not mon mothma she's like the gym she's [TS]

  like the general from New Hope she's [TS]

  like general Dodonna from the new hope [TS]

  you like she's in charge of this whole [TS]

  thing she's not just like sort of the [TS]

  political figure head to give them [TS]

  legitimacy she is actually on the ground [TS]

  doing you know doing stuff [TS]

  well that's good because we didn't [TS]

  really need lots of political scenes [TS]

  know quite enough of the words i do have [TS]

  1i already established this but i do I [TS]

  am frustrated with the treatment of the [TS]

  republic vs the resistance in this yet [TS]

  i'm here at all it's not done well and [TS]

  it's it's frustrating because I thought [TS]

  as I saw someone remarking today online [TS]

  one of the frustrations is we've spent [TS]

  all this time striving for the ideals of [TS]

  the Republican the original trilogy and [TS]

  now we get it back and it's inherently [TS]

  dispatched in about you know half an [TS]

  hour please I completely ineffective [TS]

  yeah right and so it's chorus because [TS]

  they blow up something they did not say [TS]

  the horse something in the hosnian [TS]

  system which I believe course and is not [TS]

  again I'm not massively knowledgeable [TS]

  about that sort of stuff but from what i [TS]

  know it isn't in and you know maybe it [TS]

  is but just because i am so interested [TS]

  to know what has happened in these [TS]

  intervening years [TS]

  how did the Empire the fragment of the [TS]

  Empire you know get dispatched to maybe [TS]

  that's what the anthology movies will [TS]

  cover i will be interested to see if [TS]

  they go back and backfill some of us [TS]

  because there's very little about it and [TS]

  you're basically saying you want prequel [TS]

  you're right about four different from [TS]

  here a lot of people to the sequel's is [TS]

  what I want [TS]

  is there a word for that yeah and and [TS]

  there is I i really like you know sci-fi [TS]

  politics intriguing begins like stuff [TS]

  like a watching the expanse now read all [TS]

  the books on that and I think there is a [TS]

  there is a cool interesting Star Wars [TS]

  story to be told that and stuff that I [TS]

  think was done well in some of the [TS]

  Expanded Universe stuff before but [TS]

  nothing too cool story doesn't need to [TS]

  be done here you know it doesn't fit in [TS]

  a two-hour movie necessarily but it does [TS]

  feel kind of it was the one thing that I [TS]

  felt sloppy because it didn't really [TS]

  make sense why is the Republic backing [TS]

  and gorillas arm [TS]

  why do things they have control yes but [TS]

  you're secretly that everybody knows and [TS]

  so we're gonna blow up the Republic [TS]

  anyway is we can have like a 20-pot [TS]

  house of cards styles that extols the [TS]

  political wouldn't put it past them and [TS]

  raise me up i'm on board smoke the [TS]

  supreme leader speaking of the first [TS]

  order to the public at large let's get [TS]

  today over so that they're all been snow [TS]

  our mutual friend my sister Lian has a [TS]

  theory that he might be a not dead [TS]

  Darth Plagueis I I don't think it's [TS]

  unrealistic plague plague it places the [TS]

  one who he was [TS]

  Papa teens mentor is the relation [TS]

  between tells Anakin Skywalker the story [TS]

  of Darth Plagueis because he conquered [TS]

  death he was so powerful in the force [TS]

  that he learned how to conquer death [TS]

  before his apprentice ye killing I had [TS]

  to kill one of those mean old republic [TS]

  that you do is choose them but i think [TS]

  that's I mean who knows whether that's [TS]

  actually you know correct but I think [TS]

  that's an interesting theory that would [TS]

  be a way of units directly connecting it [TS]

  back to the prequels but not in a way [TS]

  that kind of things like you circle [TS]

  around the prequels and bring them all [TS]

  together off your actually touching [TS]

  right he's never seen in the prequels [TS]

  just talked about that was the thing i [TS]

  dislike most about the prequels was that [TS]

  everything happened to be connected to [TS]

  everything else yeah and you know it [TS]

  doesn't I don't feel it has to be you [TS]

  know a character we've seen before [TS]

  no but if he's not then suddenly we [TS]

  heard mega-powerful safety just came out [TS]

  of nowhere in the last 30 years you know [TS]

  and looks a thousand years old if here [TS]

  sit though I mean that the other [TS]

  question I'll [TS]

  only height yeah i mean he might be but [TS]

  like there are ya i did like [TS]

  particularly masses line where she talks [TS]

  about how evil keeps arriving and always [TS]

  has a different name thus if the Empire [TS]

  of the first order etc so you know again [TS]

  sort of corresponding to that same [TS]

  theory about nope doesn't actually use [TS]

  the word say that any point that thing [TS]

  know right exactly and even in the [TS]

  original trilogy city is is you know [TS]

  will define right we know Darth Vader is [TS]

  a Dark Lord of the Sith but nothing is [TS]

  made no mention is made of the Emperor [TS]

  being a Sith Lord the old republic it's [TS]

  much better defined it got a little [TS]

  quick sentries you can call it old if [TS]

  not older they're everywhere [TS]

  I hate everybody being called Darth too [TS]

  if only because it reminds me of that [TS]

  one line in New Hope where where obi-wan [TS]

  Kenobi calls fader Dark Daughters like [TS]

  gonna make it [TS]

  you can't win Lorde yeah it's not super [TS]

  yeah that's so bizarre I mean that the [TS]

  the smoke could be something like some [TS]

  other teenage kid with some protection [TS]

  yeah it's true that would be your [TS]

  bedroom with this is not really the [TS]

  image that you project if you could just [TS]

  ride on a different one everyone here is [TS]

  sort of aging column with bits missing [TS]

  from his face and it was very strange [TS]

  yeah I know what's going on there um I [TS]

  don't drive as floppy hair love it [TS]

  I thought I loved it as well have some [TS]

  people complaining about that as well so [TS]

  that your hair therapy is here was too [TS]

  sloppy but it makes him look we're too [TS]

  long and it makes me look like an emo [TS]

  kid and all that but one of the things I [TS]

  liked about it was because it frames his [TS]

  face perfectly so even when he takes off [TS]

  the helmet he still looks like he's [TS]

  wearing a helmet or me [TS]

  looks like he's always wearing a hood [TS]

  you know because he faces just in the [TS]

  middle of this sea of black I have no [TS]

  objections to his here it looks fine but [TS]

  it was it was nice here and i did i did [TS]

  like i did like the be taking off the [TS]

  helmet and it's just you know it's a [TS]

  just more looking your head under there [TS]

  yeah and it's not you know that that was [TS]

  nice i did get a nice car right but he [TS]

  didn't have it to start with yeah he [TS]

  totally would be all he must be so happy [TS]

  about that [TS]

  you know I your mother look what I got [TS]

  today is probably going in going like [TS]

  I've been injured quick give me a [TS]

  cybernetic shoulders it's just a scratch [TS]

  known replace if you take my hand off so [TS]

  I can get a new hand will cut his own [TS]

  yeah you don't understand do it cut his [TS]

  hand off and say it came off in the [TS]

  bathroom method is a method so although [TS]

  it looks showed I think looks robotic [TS]

  and great at the end there that was yeah [TS]

  yeah but they're that was that was a [TS]

  nice decision at the flashback are no [TS]

  there's a point right okay so raise sort [TS]

  of you know force vision when she [TS]

  touches the lightsaber we get her in a [TS]

  starship that's collapsing you know what [TS]

  could be anything obviate mean it looks [TS]

  sort of you know first-order Imperial [TS]

  issue but it could be anything [TS]

  and then she sees Luke presumably giving [TS]

  the plans to r2 and telling our to you [TS]

  know go and sleep until the right time [TS]

  or whatever you know with his robotic [TS]

  hand on him and then you get the Knights [TS]

  of Ren thing and its really that's the [TS]

  one part where you like is this a vision [TS]

  of the future or is it a flashback [TS]

  because it's really hard to tell which [TS]

  that is you know I assumed with the [TS]

  Knights of Ren that that was basically [TS]

  his classmates from well that's when I [TS]

  thought I academy but I've seen people [TS]

  since saying no the the it's a it's a [TS]

  vision of the future like and she will [TS]

  you know of her fighting the Knights of [TS]

  running the future may still be as [TS]

  classmates [TS]

  well yeah yeah so yeah actually yeah you [TS]

  know is there a consensus on this [TS]

  because I'm really confused that I I [TS]

  don't know enough about what people have [TS]

  been saying about it but I've definitely [TS]

  i also thought it was maybe his fellow [TS]

  classmates being trained by Luke [TS]

  although at that point you wonder a how [TS]

  many trainees were there and be how many [TS]

  of them went dad right ROM and so and [TS]

  here is saying stop wearing the mask is [TS]

  out and I'm well and that whole set that [TS]

  scene does start with rain killing [TS]

  somebody with his [TS]

  you know cross lightsaber but it's [TS]

  impossible to tell who it is [TS]

  yeah have all the scenes that I want to [TS]

  see a second time the the flashback is [TS]

  the biggest one because it's so unclear [TS]

  right and i did and i was wrong really [TS]

  watching you know didn't blink watching [TS]

  really carefully and it's just way too [TS]

  fast to actually tell who he kills on [TS]

  what's going on there was something in [TS]

  the press today that was talking about [TS]

  how you and mcgregor had recorded you [TS]

  know log for that scene overlaid I think [TS]

  with Alec Guinness oh yeah it's all that [TS]

  yeah they use Alec Guinness is they use [TS]

  him saying afraid to say ray they make [TS]

  that syllable out of it and then they [TS]

  over way with that with you and mcgregor [TS]

  a saying something about you taking your [TS]

  first steps or something like that so I [TS]

  mean technically you could still yeah [TS]

  you even greater still allowing around [TS]

  what if you brought him back as a force [TS]

  right well that was my question is where [TS]

  all the force ghost because why does [TS]

  nobody show up and say you know or by a [TS]

  then she was a party [TS]

  yeah that's right that you just get a [TS]

  bunch of he walks back to endure [TS]

  everybody that right so okay let's start [TS]

  to wrap this up the one thing about this [TS]

  movie that felt a little bit flat to me [TS]

  I perhaps ironically was the attack by [TS]

  the x-wings on Starkiller base [TS]

  I loved all the x-wing sequences loved [TS]

  all the starship sequences and even that [TS]

  was the sequences themselves [TS]

  individually were great including the [TS]

  don't call it a trench run but but the [TS]

  actual destruction of the base at the [TS]

  end fell really flat for me and I think [TS]

  a lot of that was actually down to the [TS]

  score which didn't sort of feel [TS]

  triumphant and the editing because you [TS]

  have the attack on the base and okay [TS]

  it's starting to go badly you know we [TS]

  need to make lots and lots of bowling [TS]

  passes and we're getting shot to pieces [TS]

  when they cut away to everything else [TS]

  that's going on for so long that by the [TS]

  time we return to it you kind of you [TS]

  know not forgotten about it but it's [TS]

  just and then it's over really quickly [TS]

  and it's just it's the one part of it [TS]

  that I felt was a bit kind of cursory [TS]

  yeah it doesn't have that moment like in [TS]

  Star Wars where you've got look making [TS]

  the run and and then at hands the [TS]

  Millennium Falcon flies and last moment [TS]

  and that's the woman with the audience [TS]

  you're like hell [TS]

  yah-yah-yah and we all feel really good [TS]

  and excited and happy and go home [TS]

  delighted I mean like the rest but [TS]

  that's the really moment but it gives [TS]

  you the emotional punch and I felt there [TS]

  was a sort of as a like a miniature one [TS]

  with the x-wing turning up our or the [TS]

  other place on must guard this place [TS]

  that's the thing [TS]

  yes that one I'm very good at Star Wars [TS]

  names but the real thing here when the [TS]

  x-wings playing you're thinking yeah and [TS]

  I think excellent that was really good [TS]

  those are also have I wonder what the [TS]

  finale is going to be because that one [TS]

  felt pretty great and yeah I was kind of [TS]

  waiting for that hell yeah brilliant [TS]

  let's shipping and no go home moment but [TS]

  it never quite came and so of course [TS]

  this is terrible the virus like but and [TS]

  this would be so because of that didn't [TS]

  happen there was quite a lot through [TS]

  hand Solars day through when it was [TS]

  clear what was going to happen through [TS]

  the whole getting stabbed by the [TS]

  lightsaber thing and then the whole [TS]

  falling off the bridge and a bit i have [TS]

  a kid thinking he could come back from [TS]

  that [TS]

  do we need to bring the advice of that [TS]

  ok missed all the vital wins and then [TS]

  there was an heir to the pot and sure [TS]

  and then they put Michelle got made [TS]

  before the thing blew up a lot of value [TS]

  in the day of a major beloved character [TS]

  is like the whole falling bridge thing [TS]

  yeah yeah i think we buy this hide [TS]

  accepted you probably were actually [TS]

  going to break the back then everything [TS]

  exploded and I was like oh ok and it is [TS]

  a sort of clicked back a little bit with [TS]

  with Ray's ascend to the end but it yeah [TS]

  I do feel its measured missing that [TS]

  fights well I don't think it's sort of [TS]

  detracted from the overall feeling of [TS]

  anticlimax and yet you know the end was [TS]

  very very powerful it was just like one [TS]

  is like someone forgot to put the final [TS]

  chocolate button at the top of the [TS]

  chocolate button cake the cake is [TS]

  delicious but it looks really really [TS]

  good we lost the key but you're just [TS]

  like is there something missing there [TS]

  just that [TS]

  yeah but why why was thinking was you [TS]

  know so population of original deaths [TS]

  that was I [TS]

  it's about 300,000 people and this thing [TS]

  was you know a planet a hundred times [TS]

  the size or somebody is like so let's [TS]

  say you know you got a hundred million [TS]

  or something on that [TS]

  how do you get people to apply for those [TS]

  kind of jobs [TS]

  given what happened to the previous two [TS]

  dead stars time to highlight you let him [TS]

  know what happened either like Luke [TS]

  Skywalker disappeared and saloon just [TS]

  look at my eyes roll well you know it's [TS]

  not good i met how many deathstars can [TS]

  actually bonus ok it's to support but [TS]

  this is this is [TS]

  yeah how apologize but there's a single [TS]

  rhymed battle station in the rest of all [TS]

  the best films it's just as unlikely [TS]

  after three people are gonna start to [TS]

  think at times are hard and taxes are [TS]

  high you know somewhere there is a good [TS]

  there's a good article might have been [TS]

  on slate which is the sum someone wrote [TS]

  the memos between general Hux and the [TS]

  designer of Starkiller base like it's [TS]

  coming over like the mine usually also [TS]

  could you really just like I feel like [TS]

  that that's a very accessible easy place [TS]

  to shoot things could be going to cover [TS]

  that up or something in an expert our [TS]

  you run over cost this is getting out of [TS]

  control it's it's a very funny article i [TS]

  would like to know how you managed to [TS]

  get the money for it though after it [TS]

  gives is it is exponentially bigger then [TS]

  the North it is removably it was a [TS]

  planet [TS]

  alright i'm bringing and then they just [TS]

  carved some bits out of it yeah but you [TS]

  can still get still fairly expensive [TS]

  that's a lot of Earth work well they've [TS]

  got like the little diggers with [TS]

  lightsabers on them and its really know [TS]

  about our honor to end on a positive [TS]

  note i will say people actually [TS]

  applauded at the end in the cinema where [TS]

  I was watching it now we're now in [TS]

  America that's not so uncommon in the UK [TS]

  that never happens is the first time [TS]

  I've ever been in a British cinema and [TS]

  people just spontaneously burst into [TS]

  applause at the end when they're you [TS]

  know that it added music came up at the [TS]

  end [TS]

  yeah i think there was there was there [TS]

  was certainly a smattering of light [TS]

  applause it wasn't i have been in [TS]

  American cinemas with that with the [TS]

  whole whooping butt [TS]

  it was it you know that do remember it [TS]

  was British applause but it was always [TS]

  nevertheless yes that we we had no [TS]

  applause [TS]

  although when the one time I happens in [TS]

  American so another was any closer [TS]

  either but it was because it doesn't [TS]

  have whatever it's so well so which yeah [TS]

  that was not a movie did it doesn't [TS]

  matter answers one question man [TS]

  alright alright we've been going for [TS]

  almost two hours and we are only the [TS]

  first of three podcast recording [TS]

  tonight's style as well so our right [TS]

  let's bring this to a close [TS]

  thank you very much for joining me on [TS]

  this lovely UK stroke East Coast stroke [TS]

  northern edition of The Force awakens [TS]

  discussion tomorrow and thank you very [TS]

  much thank you very much for having me [TS]

  Liz miles thank you for joining us from [TS]

  Scotland [TS]

  Thank You bearing and jamie thompson [TS]

  thank you for joining us also from [TS]

  Scotland i'm silently standing on top of [TS]

  the hill and I expect to be paid [TS]

  millions of dollars okay can you just [TS]

  stand there for about 60 seconds while [TS]

  we get the chopper into position [TS]

  don't move it will be really awkward and [TS]

  you look really uncomfortable for like [TS]

  an hour [TS]

  ya gotta fly it around mad so [TS]

  uncomfortable a pleasure and thank you [TS]

  everybody out there for listening [TS]

  happy holidays and of course may the [TS]

  force be with you [TS]

  [Music] [TS]