The Incomparable

287: Hole Farmers


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  dot TV / smell and use the code smell [TS]

  the in comfortable number 287 everybody [TS]

  welcome back everybody to the [TS]

  uncomfortable we had an idea to do an [TS]

  episode about bad Star Trek initiation [TS]

  and I got about 12 people who said they [TS]

  wanted to be on that episode so we're [TS]

  doing two episodes about this is the [TS]

  first will be another one a little bit [TS]

  later and if this is about to bad Star [TS]

  Trek movies i declare them bad even if [TS]

  my panel might slightly disagree and [TS]

  they'll be ashamed to the stirring the [TS]

  original Star Trek cast so we're going [TS]

  to be talking tonight about Star Trek [TS]

  the motion picture from 1979 and star [TS]

  trek the final frontier from 1989 [TS]

  directed by mr. william shatner himself [TS]

  joining me to talk about these two fine [TS]

  well okay these films they are films [TS]

  they were put on film are the following [TS]

  David jail or hello hello there [TS]

  go ahead and Fleischmann hi i have an [TS]

  opening statement that i'm saying oh [TS]

  stop dating to the end chip sudderth my [TS]

  oath of celibacy is on record keishon my [TS]

  duties welcome wendover permission [TS]

  granted [TS]

  Andy not co hello I would like to greet [TS]

  you in the form of a 90-minute long [TS]

  tracking shots across the bow event i [TS]

  will respond by looking on in awe [TS]

  silently Monty Ashley shock re live long [TS]

  and take a nap halfway through the movie [TS]

  Jason and of course it wouldn't be a [TS]

  discussion of Star Trek without mr. [TS]

  Scott McNulty hello [TS]

  row row row your boat gently down the [TS]

  road now that's all street like majorly [TS]

  metri let's start with dark the motion [TS]

  picture and then when i was going to [TS]

  star trek five you know what do these in [TS]

  chronological order Star Trek the motion [TS]

  picture 1979 look the idea was Star Trek [TS]

  became a cold success and then there [TS]

  were all these sci-fi movies starting [TS]

  with star wars that were very successful [TS]

  in the late seventies and people at [TS]

  Paramount finally haha [TS]

  I've got a great idea let's let's do [TS]

  that in fact they had just like done all [TS]

  the work to make a new TV series and [TS]

  they just scrapped it and instead they [TS]

  made Star Trek the motion picture it [TS]

  talk about amy was going to be moving [TS]

  then it was gonna be a TV series that [TS]

  was going to be a movie [TS]

  what a mess fortunately the movie isn't [TS]

  a mess at all [TS]

  wait a second I don't wanna I don't want [TS]

  to recap the entire plot because as as [TS]

  suggested by and you wouldn't know it [TS]

  but they're the plot is like 20 seconds [TS]

  okay so here the slot closing price good [TS]

  models you've got here's the plot a [TS]

  cloud it that's really big and powerful [TS]

  floats toward the earth the enterprise [TS]

  which is just being refitted seems to be [TS]

  the only ship that can go out and visit [TS]

  the cloud they send the Enterprise Kirk [TS]

  takes command even though he wasn't in [TS]

  command they go and visit the cloud find [TS]

  out that it is an earth probe trying to [TS]

  radio home just like on that old star [TS]

  trek episode The Changeling and it [TS]

  absorbs a couple of members of the crew [TS]

  and disappears the end [TS]

  see see was that hard I i was just it [TS]

  was fascinating to watch this tonight [TS]

  because i was there were 35 minutes in [TS]

  and I realized that and what we've just [TS]

  seen over first 35 minutes would [TS]

  uncovered a 10 seconds of captains law [TS]

  makes loud has been seen approaching the [TS]

  earth the enterprise on its way to find [TS]

  out what it's about before kills [TS]

  everybody i've taken command of the [TS]

  enterprise even though I'm Admiral and [TS]

  action interior bridge [TS]

  you're a couple there were some couple [TS]

  cool scenes i did--like i mean [TS]

  interspersed in this very long movie [TS]

  where like I did like the notion of this [TS]

  kind of big electromagnetic thing of [TS]

  like the special effect of the Klingon [TS]

  ship being dissolved like it was hokey [TS]

  but it was also a little different [TS]

  there's a lot of you know until you know [TS]

  what's going on [TS]

  there's a nice sense of this the scope [TS]

  of this thing it's 81 is a 68 use that's [TS]

  awfully large land could have all been [TS]

  handled with eight with a scrolling wall [TS]

  of yellow text recently noticed that [TS]

  little let's also acknowledge that they [TS]

  had they replayed that entire scene only [TS]

  with the with the with a federation ship [TS]

  and the Federation outpost it's the [TS]

  first try it was absolutely unnecessary [TS]

  and then there's the whole set of the [TS]

  they load up the first 45 minutes with [TS]

  oh my god that the are the ship isn't [TS]

  really ready to go out there's gonna be [TS]

  so many malfunctions and effect but that [TS]

  doesn't play into anything that happens [TS]

  later so snow [TS]

  that goes out and we'll never ever [TS]

  getting back together [TS]

  yeah why were they apart why did they [TS]

  have to be apart [TS]

  why were they in the movie there the [TS]

  movies not about the band movies is uber [TS]

  and process Khambhat up but they [TS]

  actually I early show otherwise the [TS]

  century 21 real estate agent can now [TS]

  captain the enterprise and not Sulu well [TS]

  as the I feel bad for Decker because he [TS]

  said that this community have to wait [TS]

  for pretty [TS]

  hey he gets bumped down to science [TS]

  officer although apparently that's a job [TS]

  normally held by every Vulcan in the [TS]

  world and then he gets science officer [TS]

  taken away from him from a plant [TS]

  standpoint he's very important but he's [TS]

  really just there to carry sort of a [TS]

  romantic subplot i propose that he is mo [TS]

  yeah it's got the is but he did have two [TS]

  jobs when he was bumped down he was the [TS]

  executive officer and science off so [TS]

  well because work is going to be soaring [TS]

  backup Vulcan so I want everyone just a [TS]

  moment the the Vulcan shot because that [TS]

  was very weird the spot you know he's [TS]

  been apparently in silent meditation for [TS]

  two-and-a-half years to get some color [TS]

  glass urging his emotions yeah and the [TS]

  Vulcans a square together speaking [TS]

  Finnish I was like I've never heard [TS]

  Vulcan spouts oh-58 a whole field it's [TS]

  like I i believe the story there is that [TS]

  they just did all the dialogue in [TS]

  English and they thought it would be [TS]

  cooler if it sounded aliens so they kind [TS]

  of overdubbed it but it's all in the [TS]

  same things because they're overdubbing [TS]

  the language the English with with fake [TS]

  English and it sounds ridiculous and [TS]

  that was well before Marco grand so [TS]

  here's the here's a problem I i think [TS]

  with the first part of this movie is is [TS]

  it is i think Andy's write a lot of this [TS]

  is unnecessary [TS]

  it is very long and it's hard to see why [TS]

  it's in the movie other than the fact [TS]

  that they thought it would look cool or [TS]

  be cool in some way and and you know [TS]

  what this movie looks good and it sounds [TS]

  good [TS]

  the music is good music here are your [TS]

  results that you're there you're going [TS]

  to lose that [TS]

  copy that I've got to waking up you're [TS]

  breaking up I can't hear you scott doing [TS]

  I really happy I understand that's the [TS]

  Klingon sequence does not need to be [TS]

  there but i love that sequence so much [TS]

  because i enjoy those ships and you have [TS]

  to think about this is the first time in [TS]

  ten years people are seeing Star Trek [TS]

  and while that was very disappointing [TS]

  when they saw this movie because this [TS]

  movie is not very good see those see [TS]

  those Klingon Cruiser like oh my god its [TS]

  star trek it's never looked this good [TS]

  and then four and a half hours later as [TS]

  the that sequence ends you think well [TS]

  maybe they could speed can't wait to see [TS]

  it's also false advertising is like I [TS]

  can't wait to see what the Klingons are [TS]

  up to in this week [TS]

  well you'll never sell them on just [TS]

  right there digitized but to work [TS]

  yeah I mean it's like you you went to [TS]

  all the trouble to come up with this [TS]

  fancy complicated makeup to redo what [TS]

  Klingons look like you've come up with [TS]

  all the ships and the models and then we [TS]

  never see them again and then the great [TS]

  Cleon music yeah and and I get it it's [TS]

  like okay we want to see the Klingon [TS]

  bird-of-prey on a big screen [TS]

  hey let's go to Vulcan as long as we're [TS]

  going on the big screen let's see Vulcan [TS]

  on the big screen but science statue [TS]

  there standing under the strange and [TS]

  Vulcan seems to be a hellscape because [TS]

  the absolute success star trek for does [TS]

  the opening of this movie better in [TS]

  every respect you have ships you have [TS]

  the ship's dying when the programs by [TS]

  Vulcan looks better [TS]

  it's it you know you don't need you we [TS]

  don't need star trek one we have Star [TS]

  Trek for you're also giving spacca of a [TS]

  reason to actually have a have an arc [TS]

  throughout the show you know instead of [TS]

  a ok so that's a part of the supplies [TS]

  going to be Spock's rediscovery of [TS]

  himself [TS]

  no they just needed to get his ass off [TS]

  of Vulcan and onto the ship is the only [TS]

  one of the universe who resonates with [TS]

  this thing to it's never explained it's [TS]

  a plot point it's just a horse [TS]

  well it's right that the second answer [TS]

  is this was written as the pilot for the [TS]

  series they were gonna do [TS]

  yeah and then they changed it without [TS]

  really rethinking it as anything more [TS]

  in this interesting story that would [TS]

  have been fine as a 44-minute episode [TS]

  and then they're like oh what's gonna [TS]

  have more effect it's gotta be bigger [TS]

  and and instead of actually you know [TS]

  making a story that was big [TS]

  they just added more shots of the ship [TS]

  because the ship looks really good thing [TS]

  because it looks bad conscience well i [TS]

  think the Klingon ships look bad because [TS]

  there clearly models they are in perfect [TS]

  formation and they stay right there [TS]

  yes I think it sounds bad sounds like [TS]

  Star Wars not Star Trek wait what sounds [TS]

  bad about the scenes in the movie that [TS]

  the theme song specifically it starts [TS]

  with this big bombastic Oh John Williams [TS]

  sounding theme then you have a starscape [TS]

  and it pans down to see starships yeah [TS]

  that coming on the Klingon the Klingon [TS]

  theme that's going on their gods and you [TS]

  can see that it's certainly they're [TS]

  moving information it felt very tron to [TS]

  me almost that same way where it's all [TS]

  locked together and not entirely and not [TS]

  entirely right i think the enterprise [TS]

  model is very nice and the stuff that [TS]

  they do with that again it but endless [TS]

  and I kept watching and thinking well [TS]

  you know at least they reuse this [TS]

  footage and star trek to and that's a [TS]

  much better than Betty and it's kind of [TS]

  long seen on star trek to but it's like [TS]

  a fraction of the time they spend in [TS]

  Star Trek the motion picture on the same [TS]

  effect all agree with Monty on the music [TS]

  I you know I'm glad jerry goldsmith got [TS]

  paid [TS]

  he does a very good chance that i have [TS]

  never liked that theme which the baba [TS]

  but that one of these and it's so yeah [TS]

  next generation right they reused in [TS]

  Star Trek The Next Generation it's funny [TS]

  I couldn't remember because so familiar [TS]

  i was like i just remembering this [TS]

  wrongs and watch next generation for [TS]

  some time but I i thought the music was [TS]

  suppose it was great throughout was my [TS]

  feeling i would often forget was on [TS]

  screen actually listen to the [TS]

  orchestration he did an incredible job [TS]

  lots of different instruments some [TS]

  experimental instruments he likes um I [TS]

  think they were gonna say he's a big [TS]

  turbo fan is back feeling because a lot [TS]

  of like low rumbling stuff had on [TS]

  noise-canceling headphones and wasn't [TS]

  i'd love to get the soundtrack to this i [TS]

  think it was so much better than the [TS]

  movie The [TS]

  actual sentence can be created yeah you [TS]

  know you're exactly right Glenn the most [TS]

  exciting thing about this movie's the [TS]

  overture it's well I know you can't be [TS]

  one less than I can't let this planet [TS]

  north of the Klingon uniforms too i was [TS]

  the only out i'm done grasping for [TS]

  positive things to say they didn't come [TS]

  up with that the Klingon uniforms which [TS]

  is a really good uniform design that [TS]

  actually was good enough that they could [TS]

  use it for the entire series that was [TS]

  great the sum of the uniforms [TS]

  engineering also i was surprised also [TS]

  that actually they just reuse the okay [TS]

  that was good enough especially because [TS]

  all of the other costumes here we're [TS]

  just full skirts short sleeve uniform [TS]

  but we got against pajamas and uh [TS]

  jumpsuit [TS]

  I never understood the whole very pale [TS]

  like washed-out earth-tone silk pajamas [TS]

  all I could think was that they used all [TS]

  of the colors in the movie poster and [TS]

  setup we don't have any more color [TS]

  budget [TS]

  see this is what happens when you don't [TS]

  use your time at mood wisely you only [TS]

  have 30 minutes if so in the first the [TS]

  first third of this movie I thought if [TS]

  you if you cut down a lot of the [TS]

  unnecessary stuff because the fact is [TS]

  there is a huge amount of I mean it is [TS]

  you think when you're gonna watch it [TS]

  again you think well you know I probably [TS]

  overstated and then watching you don't [TS]

  know I understated it there are minutes [TS]

  were all there are special effects and [TS]

  we were we were talking on that random [TS]

  track episode Scott about Star Trek for [TS]

  about how it starts with them want [TS]

  everybody on in the movie watching star [TS]

  trek 3 and then search for syria in this [TS]

  literally at several points of watching [TS]

  our characters watching the movie with [TS]

  us using it's just so that goes on [TS]

  forever but one of the things that I I [TS]

  thought watching through this time is [TS]

  there is a nugget of an interesting bit [TS]

  of drama in the first act of this [TS]

  because you have you have themes that [TS]

  would be revisited in some cases in [TS]

  other movies you've got Kirk wanting to [TS]

  research command and there's the Kirk [TS]

  Decker dynamic i think is kind of [TS]

  interesting how McCoy who Kirk is kind [TS]

  of brought on because he's trying to get [TS]

  the band back together but McCoy [TS]

  immediately calls Kirk on his BS and & [TS]

  Decker knows what's what I think I think [TS]

  that's an icy what they're doing there [TS]

  and i think that was kind of interesting [TS]

  but we'll see that's where I thought it [TS]

  started to go off the rails for me well [TS]

  okay go house where to go with that well [TS]

  stop big because they established Decker [TS]

  as the guys alright he's going to be [TS]

  Kirk's executive officer is going to be [TS]

  telling Kirk no we can't do that so Kurt [TS]

  can show how manly he is but then they [TS]

  bring McCoy on and that's McCoy's only [TS]

  job is to call Curtis stuff it's not [TS]

  like he has a lot of surgery to do in [TS]

  the movie [TS]

  yeah so before you know it McCoy is [TS]

  doing all the things that Decker's [TS]

  character ought to be doing a decorator [TS]

  just standing around they're having a [TS]

  chin [TS]

  well i think i see I don't entirely [TS]

  agree with that because although I [TS]

  though although bones does do that the [TS]

  whole idea here is the Kirk is not this [TS]

  about not relinquishing things to the [TS]

  next generation and he Decker knows more [TS]

  about the ship and Kirk does and and [TS]

  Kirk does not appreciate that other [TS]

  people have you know like decorate he [TS]

  has qualifications and I let what like i [TS]

  was saying i think i see what they were [TS]

  trying to do there [TS]

  I do think that it it it all falls apart [TS]

  fairly quickly but but i sat i SAT there [TS]

  thinking you know I could see how [TS]

  somebody could come in with this first [TS]

  act and say I see where we can take this [TS]

  to lead to some dramatic story choices [TS]

  and arrest the movie [TS]

  none of that happens meeting of it how I [TS]

  want to point out something about [TS]

  Decker's indexes competences remember [TS]

  the scene when Kirk comes on board right [TS]

  and he's it takes 40 minutes so you can [TS]

  never forget how long it takes out their [TS]

  body to do another loop around cuddy [TS]

  this step just a slow it down Scotty [TS]

  you're going too fast I want this to [TS]

  take 10 minutes to get there Kirk [TS]

  suffers from motion sickness [TS]

  little-known fact is in engineering [TS]

  Scotty is talking about the transporter [TS]

  right & Decker's trying to fix something [TS]

  he fixes the transporter system the next [TS]

  time here on the transporter is when the [TS]

  Vulcan and someone else are melted in [TS]

  the transporter beam so I would question [TS]

  his competency let me take a break to [TS]

  tell you about our sponsor for this [TS]

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  for sponsoring being comfortable [TS]

  can I can I also mentioned I mean we we [TS]

  could list them all but like the the [TS]

  transporter accident see that sword the [TS]

  wormhole seen it the there are so many [TS]

  scenes in this movie that you look at [TS]

  you look why does that exist in the [TS]

  world will see i guess exist to show [TS]

  while Decker knew better but it's a [TS]

  waste of time and it goes on for so long [TS]

  the transporter accident it's a waste [TS]

  it's a way don't because that's over you [TS]

  to do to add that extra kick in the nuts [TS]

  is not only is this movie going slowly [TS]

  but through the wormhole saying let's [TS]

  have everything happened just to just to [TS]

  really lower the Occidental doorbell [TS]

  rings I'm gonna go away it makes the [TS]

  great man's right comparing the i'm [TS]

  sorry i'll repeat that for use and [TS]

  asteroid yeah we could see it's an [TS]

  aspiration that god I think that [TS]

  wormhole scene is there because star [TS]

  wars had a very exciting going into [TS]

  hyperspace scene so we need to make [TS]

  three very exciting going to work drive [TS]

  scene and then something has to happen [TS]

  and then we can get on with our plot but [TS]

  there's just yeah there's no reason so [TS]

  not wagon train to the stars you know [TS]

  this is so not Horatio Hornblower in [TS]

  space they I i can see the eye can see a [TS]

  bit of the logic in the studio saying [TS]

  okay we want to make this movie because [TS]

  Star Wars is big but we don't want to [TS]

  just eight star wars so let's eight 2001 [TS]

  or something let's go we have YS and all [TS]

  the stuff but specifically the pacing of [TS]

  5001 yes [TS]

  oh well I thought that clicks into [TS]

  something that I was really very aware [TS]

  of it really seems like this is gene [TS]

  roddenberry's attempt to say oh oh I [TS]

  can't believe you thought that [TS]

  piece-of-crap Star Wars was good [TS]

  let me show you what a real science [TS]

  fiction is about it's about every little [TS]

  scientific detail and making sure we're [TS]

  thinking about our feelings at every [TS]

  point of the way don't worry I'll fix [TS]

  every and phone and ate the evidence of [TS]

  that is not only the movie itself but [TS]

  the fact that Gene Roddenberry did the [TS]

  exact same thing all over again with [TS]

  next-generation Decker is Riker is [TS]

  really is i Leah Jerry Goldsmith is [TS]

  jerry goldsmith collecting checks for [TS]

  things he wrote ten years ago we talked [TS]

  about Roddenberry and i think i will be [TS]

  talking about the latter third of this [TS]

  movie doesn't the last 10 hours and [TS]

  again I think the interior features [TS]

  stuff is beautiful and i got to study it [TS]

  in detail that goes for for a long time [TS]

  it's locked going out in the suit by the [TS]

  way another scene it's like why is that [TS]

  even in there but but here's the thing [TS]

  about that end of the movie that is the [TS]

  worst kind of Gene Roddenberry story not [TS]

  only is it creeping from the changeling [TS]

  on the original Star Trek episode and [TS]

  the end the Eilean subplot where they're [TS]

  trying to teach the i Leah duplicate to [TS]

  be sort of like to play her into being [TS]

  human again is a knockoff of take your [TS]

  pick the one with the kelvans or the one [TS]

  with the though the water little girls [TS]

  made of the episode that's like half of [TS]

  Spock's scenes in the whole series yeah [TS]

  so you jam that in there too but the [TS]

  problem is that the end it becomes I [TS]

  mean there is it's all the things that [TS]

  you can complain about about gene [TS]

  roddenberry's utopian vision and [TS]

  believing that he's this amazing visit [TS]

  visionary there's no conflict [TS]

  there's the it's all about humanity [TS]

  striving to better themselves in the end [TS]

  people get glowy and things disappear [TS]

  and that's the end of the blood he and [TS]

  there's no villain there's if there's a [TS]

  sense of wonder like he literally thinks [TS]

  that that people will enjoy this movie [TS]

  because they'll enjoy watching [TS]

  characters they love watch special [TS]

  effects and then that's a whole last [TS]

  third of of the film it's like Field of [TS]

  Dreams he the features wants to meet his [TS]

  dad again and play catch ya well feature [TS]

  was an actual character instead of just [TS]

  being a set then that might have been [TS]

  interesting to write but it was just [TS]

  yeah yeah I don't think there and [TS]

  explore the idea to like there's a [TS]

  planet machine intelligences is a really [TS]

  cool idea also explored in early episode [TS]

  of futurama for a bot planet and I think [TS]

  that although it did it much better have [TS]

  to say silence [TS]

  and anyway sorry but the people [TS]

  understand futurama will get that but [TS]

  the that's a very interesting idea but [TS]

  it's told right it's not the show till [TS]

  it's that old thing they're talking [TS]

  about a planet machine intelligences we [TS]

  don't even get like a scene like a a [TS]

  cutaway it's all you're standing in [TS]

  front of machinery and special effects [TS]

  talking about things describing things [TS]

  that are actually very interesting [TS]

  conceptually if they were explored or [TS]

  they could have been a tron they could [TS]

  have done a you know an early matrix C [TS]

  kind of thing and said we're going into [TS]

  the mind of feature because we need to [TS]

  teach it what humanity is anything [TS]

  instead of they're like oh there's a [TS]

  shorted wire i'll type in something very [TS]

  quickly that you can't see so clearly [TS]

  you don't even know what I just said [TS]

  and then i will go into start us hello [TS]

  and and well the whole plot of this film [TS]

  is essentially the enterprise drives out [TS]

  to see a cloud and the cloud [TS]

  disappearance might have sex with humans [TS]

  found on a cloud that second Decker [TS]

  Decker quantum leap's let's not forget [TS]

  this [TS]

  sure he does yeah that's exactly it [TS]

  hopes will because she's a teenager [TS]

  preparing to go see The Beatles at the [TS]

  end Sullivan Show but unfortunately she [TS]

  left a pair curlers on it should burn [TS]

  the house down and she left home and got [TS]

  killed [TS]

  so now Decker is going to be her for the [TS]

  next two weeks see the beatles and save [TS]

  her life either theory and who this [TS]

  movie was made for i think was for the [TS]

  model builders because of every science [TS]

  fiction movie this movie gives you the [TS]

  best look at every single spaceship like [TS]

  if you're building an enterprise [TS]

  this is the movie you want your visit [TS]

  water tank down there too yeah every see [TS]

  where it oh that's the office level huh [TS]

  got office level that was my favorite [TS]

  label and another level [TS]

  exterior office league level label [TS]

  outside of a star just goes you can see [TS]

  because you get those duck boat tours of [TS]

  the truck they want to sit the first [TS]

  they want to see is the office level of [TS]

  the enterprise oh my god that was great [TS]

  monty monty out I'll do you one better [TS]

  this is the same impulse that made the [TS]

  Star Wars prequels they knew they went [TS]

  they went into Star Trek and they like [TS]

  it's been 10 years [TS]

  let's do something special let's make [TS]

  your big ship big models and and let's [TS]

  see earth let's see what the human let's [TS]

  see what the human [TS]

  this is really like in the 23rd century [TS]

  they get so deep into Star Trek universe [TS]

  kinds of stuff they forget to tell a [TS]

  story it it [TS]

  this totally feels like a it's totally [TS]

  feels like the George Lucas prequels and [TS]

  it's it's it's people who love star trek [TS]

  so much and don't get me wrong you know [TS]

  after ten years there's a whole lot of [TS]

  nostalgic power to seeing the band get [TS]

  back together again but that's all this [TS]

  is this is oh my god i love my star trek [TS]

  so much i'm going to make a movie about [TS]

  it [TS]

  oh so it's fan Fitzpatrick for model [TS]

  builders it's fanfic by robin i think it [TS]

  I think chip you got you got something [TS]

  where this is about the creator of the [TS]

  property that was successful not [TS]

  understanding why people liked it and [TS]

  making decisions based on his sort of [TS]

  blown up a ego about like I i have big [TS]

  big ideas and big plans i'm going to in [TS]

  Roddenberry's case talk about this [TS]

  utopian view vision of humanity and also [TS]

  sort of with a side of dirty old man sex [TS]

  commentary and with Lucas it was all [TS]

  about like digital sets in digital [TS]

  extensions and and it's it's a movie for [TS]

  kids but I'm bringing the entire medium [TS]

  forward and in both cases these guys are [TS]

  diluted and they create a piece of junk [TS]

  because they don't actually understand [TS]

  what it is they created and why people [TS]

  responded to it i don't know if i recall [TS]

  the Star Trek the motion picture a piece [TS]

  of junk but I feel like it doesn't it [TS]

  lays a lot of foundation for what the [TS]

  other better movies do and also i think [TS]

  they're still there's not a lot of it [TS]

  but there's still that great interaction [TS]

  between you know the holy trinity [TS]

  trinity of Star Trek McCoy Spock and [TS]

  Kirk when they get together it's still [TS]

  good but there's not a whole lot of it [TS]

  there's a lot of them looking at things [TS]

  together i was i was surprised by how [TS]

  much of this movie actually does last [TS]

  four years the sets last pretty much [TS]

  through Star Trek for the security [TS]

  uniforms [TS]

  you even said that security universal [TS]

  drinks yes that's because they're cheap [TS]

  skates not because they didn't let alone [TS]

  yesterday one of the reasons star trek [TS]

  to I mean as a fantasy [TS]

  track two I looked at this noticed all [TS]

  the things that they resist or two and [TS]

  one of the reasons star trek to was able [TS]

  to be made on the budget that it was and [TS]

  look as good as it does is because they [TS]

  got to reuse a lot of stuff that they [TS]

  paid for Star Trek the motion picture [TS]

  but real quick uh let me let me finish [TS]

  the list you know wrist communicator [TS]

  capital use one of those risks correct [TS]

  communities in Star Trek to the Klingon [TS]

  designs the Vulcan designs and they last [TS]

  for forever [TS]

  Spock's emotional development are the [TS]

  spa QC in star trek to is clearly the [TS]

  spot who went through all this stuff in [TS]

  Star Trek one it's like the only thing [TS]

  that was thrown away with the pajamas [TS]

  yeah I don't know about their but i [TS]

  think i think that's it that's an idea [TS]

  of a of a of a plot thread that they had [TS]

  on the on the corkboard that they forgot [TS]

  to pick up i think that it's it's easy [TS]

  to forget it you can you can you can [TS]

  drop into Star Trek to without having [TS]

  seen Star Trek one and think it's one of [TS]

  the greatest moves you've ever seen i do [TS]

  think it's a great movie i think part of [TS]

  it is that it's almost as if it's almost [TS]

  as if they had they cast Montalban [TS]

  specifically because they realize [TS]

  exactly how little energy there wasn't [TS]

  the first one [TS]

  yeah i think if they put this i'm being [TS]

  completely serious here that if I think [TS]

  that if they put this big huge bright [TS]

  Sun in the middle of this story [TS]

  everybody's going to be thrown around [TS]

  its orbit and its heat and it's like [TS]

  that's why these two are as far as [TS]

  different as night and day so I i think [TS]

  that Spock is just another failed [TS]

  subplot in Star Trek one star trek to [TS]

  they have this entire thing from start [TS]

  to finish about how look we are a crew [TS]

  of like X hundreds of people and one [TS]

  person might have to sacrifice for [TS]

  everybody that and there's sometimes [TS]

  where as much as you would with all [TS]

  opening scene as in star trek to you [TS]

  might want to hopefully be able to save [TS]

  everybody [TS]

  I'm telling you there are situations [TS]

  where that's not possible so you just [TS]

  have to make the best decision there is [TS]

  there's no that through line of a story [TS]

  in the first movie [TS]

  no I like I like what they try to do [TS]

  with Spock the idea there is Spock's [TS]

  finally decided what he's going to do [TS]

  with his life which is going to purchase [TS]

  emotions and really be a Vulcan and and [TS]

  then he needs a feature and feature is [TS]

  completely emotionless and that's why [TS]

  they can't communicate with it it is a [TS]

  way it is seen the entire universe and [TS]

  doesn't understand it because it has no [TS]

  you know he'd have no humanity and Spock [TS]

  realizes that this is his great [TS]

  mistake is that he needs to not purchase [TS]

  humanity but embrace it [TS]

  ok on paper that sounds good the movie [TS]

  doesn't really earn it and you're right [TS]

  Andy you could not see this movie and [TS]

  c-spot and star trek to and B hey its [TS]

  box and not you know it's not he's going [TS]

  to change character in star trek to but [TS]

  i like the idea of of that story arc I [TS]

  just don't think it's earned because [TS]

  very little is also i wanted to mention [TS]

  Kirk is so passive in this movie most of [TS]

  the time and that's another reason when [TS]

  you look at Martha bono legal give Kirk [TS]

  an enemy in somebody to play off of [TS]

  because in this movie like his biggest [TS]

  moves that he makes for things like [TS]

  belaying orders from Decker like no it's [TS]

  not radio for help or no lets things [TS]

  like ordering them not to do things is [TS]

  like Kirk is most active which is no [TS]

  good [TS]

  it's believable to have Kirk you know [TS]

  trying to recapture his glory he was [TS]

  been benched for two-and-a-half years [TS]

  it's believable for him to try to get [TS]

  things back and for him not to be firing [TS]

  on all cylinders yet but it's not it's [TS]

  not good storytelling is not interested [TS]

  yeah it if thats that's where you end [TS]

  you know like the midpoint that's the [TS]

  midpoint of the thing is where he makes [TS]

  that shift to being the Kirk we we know [TS]

  and love but it's he's like that for the [TS]

  home yeah i want to point out the spark [TS]

  thing that I think they did very well [TS]

  it's in passing but happens a few times [TS]

  I'd forgotten it was in the movie is you [TS]

  know he's ostensibly purchases emotions [TS]

  he's been in meditation he's been [TS]

  disappointed but it's not supposed to [TS]

  experience emotions when he comes aboard [TS]

  and he's absolutely stone-faced everyone [TS]

  yeah and there we actually thought that [TS]

  was actually he seemed alien he doesn't [TS]

  seem you know the way he's dressed the [TS]

  way he carries himself he's just [TS]

  completely absent from them and they're [TS]

  all getting kind of increasingly pissed [TS]

  off and trying to cope with that and I [TS]

  actually thought that was legitimate [TS]

  because that was an old camaraderie is [TS]

  gone [TS]

  he's not the person they knew their [TS]

  trying to roll with the fact that you [TS]

  know this is we maybe now but if that's [TS]

  what they're all so excited everyone [TS]

  says Sulu and check everyone stands up [TS]

  and and mr. Jacques magical barrier you [TS]

  mean she had like one speaking right but [TS]

  she had that plot in the series where [TS]

  she wasn't sort of in love with him in [TS]

  the original series right and she's [TS]

  there is just like turns around walks [TS]

  and that that was actually a defective [TS]

  emotional bit and by the way this is his [TS]

  shuttle docking [TS]

  is another one of those scenes that is [TS]

  endless and has no reason to be in a [TS]

  movie it's a long-range shuttle it's [TS]

  probably a career it's really cool to [TS]

  see it doc it's gotta work hard and he [TS]

  attaches from the warp sweat and comes [TS]

  in an attachment so very cool asleep in [TS]

  the park doesn't remember it flips over [TS]

  its various i almost want that model i [TS]

  get Tom servo maybe this is a [TS]

  documentary on how to dock a [TS]

  shuttlecraft like a starship Jerry [TS]

  Goldsmith has convinced this is the most [TS]

  exciting see that not every scene is the [TS]

  most exciting see now the reason jerry [TS]

  goldsmith thinks everything is exciting [TS]

  is because he was writing it without the [TS]

  footage [TS]

  yeah great the medium is having his head [TS]

  was going is the schools with good [TS]

  headcanon so there's a director's [TS]

  edition of this which I owned by i was [TS]

  actually um i'm robert wise says [TS]

  apparently they they ran out of time to [TS]

  edit this movie because it did it did [TS]

  come down to the end and they were [TS]

  cutting it not only were they were they [TS]

  were rewriting it while they were [TS]

  shooting which is never a good sign but [TS]

  they were editing it up until the [TS]

  drop-dead the director's edition is [TS]

  better pace i wouldn't say it's fast [TS]

  enough paste I feel like there must be a [TS]

  really good fan edit out of there out of [TS]

  this movie that is better but it's [TS]

  better person and it's got some nicer [TS]

  things in it and it's got some someone [TS]

  pushing that two times fast forward but [TS]

  yeah well you know i just i would be [TS]

  kind of interested to see how you could [TS]

  artfully cut this movie down by an hour [TS]

  easily but anyway the director's edition [TS]

  i will say I i think it's a better [TS]

  addition I think it's got some nice [TS]

  things it makes it sinks Vulcan up [TS]

  Vulcan looks a little bit like a son [TS]

  blasted hellscape and a little more like [TS]

  Vulcan as we've seen in other things [TS]

  it's ok but you know there's only so [TS]

  much that anyone can do with this [TS]

  because i have any of you seen the [TS]

  special longer version [TS]

  yes no there's one the yes there is one [TS]

  version right it was it was good to fill [TS]

  the three hours slot [TS]

  yeah they said they'd say so they make [TS]

  it made it longer for television so [TS]

  there's even more staring out at port [TS]

  holes but there are also some of the [TS]

  character bits that aren't even in the [TS]

  director's cut their kind of nice [TS]

  Sulu making a fool of himself in front [TS]

  of i Leah because she's she's she's a [TS]

  sexy delton yeah some more some more [TS]

  banter between Kirk and Spock and McCoy [TS]

  where the human moments that were left [TS]

  on the cutting room floor because you [TS]

  know we've got to be more 2001 hey so I [TS]

  got it I got a issue here about i Leah [TS]

  and the nation nature of consciousness [TS]

  where this movie is ostensibly one of [TS]

  the things is exploring is what the [TS]

  nature of consciousness is it just [TS]

  doesn't very badly then within the movie [TS]

  they take a character they destroy her [TS]

  and create a duplicate which were then [TS]

  supposed to I guess people are not [TS]

  suitably horrified by the android that [TS]

  appears i mean it's it's so emotionless [TS]

  second-stringers more upset that he's [TS]

  been ordered by Kirk to go follow her [TS]

  around yeah and she's dead she's a tiger [TS]

  and this is red simulator was in love [TS]

  they were lovers [TS]

  yeah and that she should disintegrate in [TS]

  front of Decker and he shows no sign he [TS]

  said he's like slightly slightly put out [TS]

  there then her her destructor send a [TS]

  probe that looks exactly like her and [TS]

  has access to all of her memories to [TS]

  examine them and he is more upset about [TS]

  is being ordered around by Kirk then he [TS]

  is you know sort of disgusted and [TS]

  infuriated by this you know simulacrum [TS]

  of his former lover that's in front of [TS]

  them it is baffling well this is the [TS]

  fundamental scientific theme is what is [TS]

  consciousness when you take someone's [TS]

  memories you stick another body the [TS]

  transporter you know what's happening [TS]

  with someone's transporter they killed [TS]

  and reassembled the notion of where the [TS]

  Solarize these are all fundamental [TS]

  science fiction concepts and they're [TS]

  like well she's disintegrated and [TS]

  there's a new one who's entirely [TS]

  nanoscopic she sweats just like the old [TS]

  one so whatever she breaks just regular [TS]

  a little bit there you got the theme of [TS]

  this movie is stated when I'll ESS the [TS]

  words recreation and enjoy have no [TS]

  meaning to my programming or to any [TS]

  viewer of this movie [TS]

  oh my part of the reason this is so [TS]

  unpleasant is because everyone in the [TS]

  movie is uncomfortable all of the [TS]

  characters are comfortable with others [TS]

  yeah well that too polyester doesn't [TS]

  breathe [TS]

  I think Scotty's ok Scotty's okay [TS]

  they're out of sorts with each other [TS]

  I'm coming out the length of her shorty [TS]

  robe i keep getting nervous about it [TS]

  means having a spa day that's what I [TS]

  thought [TS]

  the top of your robe I don't like [TS]

  because without getting into too many [TS]

  details the the color and her bald head [TS]

  butt from the back is certain [TS]

  uncomfortably anatomical effect i'm sure [TS]

  Jean I'm sure he appreciated that [TS]

  because but it was cool about it in the [TS]

  future man it's all cool in the future [TS]

  man we all just wear a jumpsuit that's [TS]

  fine [TS]

  well you know they use this as raw [TS]

  material for better movies to come [TS]

  what and that's that's the reason the [TS]

  original show worked is because they all [TS]

  worked together in this one they're all [TS]

  just not we're getting together and [TS]

  they're arguing [TS]

  well at least the human adventure is [TS]

  just beginning all right I've had enough [TS]

  of starting and I make it up to her 80s [TS]

  final final thoughts Monty yes one I [TS]

  really like that moment when Kirk first [TS]

  gets on the enterprise and the incident [TS]

  is going to show him to the bridge and [TS]

  Kirk says I think I know how to do it [TS]

  hi the answer is walk five feet into an [TS]

  elevator it's a bridge and in JJ Abrams [TS]

  defense [TS]

  there's a lot of lens flare in this [TS]

  movie now yeah yeah and a lot of weight [TS]

  sets to yeah you know I think there's [TS]

  some actually some some costumes in the [TS]

  JJ Abrams Star Trek that are [TS]

  intentionally echoing the pajamas 20 [TS]

  because how could you not all right [TS]

  let's move on 10 years into the future [TS]

  to star trek five colon the final [TS]

  frontier of the backslash html5 Nicholas [TS]

  gone 40 for the entertainment server [TS]

  which was the most generic name possible [TS]

  the motion picture or the final frontier [TS]

  I don't know it's time I know frontier [TS]

  and close i have the the blu-ray of this [TS]

  because it came with the other better [TS]

  movies and it has a little documentary [TS]

  about the making like you know people [TS]

  talk about the screenwriter and William [TS]

  Shatner and have been at all talking [TS]

  about it and it's a fascinating [TS]

  documentary to watch because they're all [TS]

  talking about this horrible movie that [TS]

  was [TS]

  not very good and there are many like [TS]

  Harvin it was like I was not gonna I [TS]

  didn't want to be part of this William [TS]

  Shatner talk me into its they all said [TS]

  that they call this movie bills turn [TS]

  because he was contractually he only did [TS]

  Star Trek for because he was going to [TS]

  direct star trek five and if he didn't [TS]

  he was going to do the movie anymore and [TS]

  the screenwriter was like you know we [TS]

  have the scene where we need to distract [TS]

  some people so I jokingly said why don't [TS]

  we have a whore do a dance and everyone [TS]

  in the room said that's a great idea and [TS]

  he was like no let's not do that now i [TS]

  know we're putting in the movie yeah be [TS]

  careful what you guys think you got you [TS]

  can't you can't help but notice that the [TS]

  first 20 or 30 minutes of Star Trek 5 [TS]

  has a lot of people telling her how [TS]

  awesome they are hayas you know no I'm [TS]

  sorry bill but we do i need Kirk here [TS]

  for this mission [TS]

  the first 20 minutes for my favorite [TS]

  part because unlike the other star trek [TS]

  movie i just watched it and people [TS]

  sitting around having fun and go [TS]

  straight there was hardly any Kirk Spock [TS]

  McCoy better in the first movie and this [TS]

  movie looks like there's going to be all [TS]

  Kirk Spock McCoy better which not great [TS]

  but would've been a place like something [TS]

  there there at opposite ends of the bell [TS]

  curve there [TS]

  yeah yeah i agree i think because I look [TS]

  at the first half hour of this movie and [TS]

  I think it is the most spectacularly [TS]

  self-indulgent that piece of garbage [TS]

  look at the whole thing that well the [TS]

  entire day with this is having honestly [TS]

  if I had one word to describe star trek [TS]

  5i thought perhaps I'd only seen it once [TS]

  in them in the theater in 1989 [TS]

  yeah and I'm a Star Trek fan I just [TS]

  never need to revisit i revisited [TS]

  finally in the last week for this if I [TS]

  had to review it with one word it would [TS]

  be garbage [TS]

  it is a piece of garbage but it is [TS]

  terrible on so many levels I I didn't [TS]

  realize how bad it was [TS]

  but the beginning really offends me [TS]

  because I feel like it's PIAA again it's [TS]

  just completely self-indulgent well Kirk [TS]

  Spock and McCoy a great having you know [TS]

  jet boots and away muttering to himself [TS]

  in Yosemite and did we really need to [TS]

  see star trek five the camping trip but [TS]

  that's what we see here and there's that [TS]

  whole like the nimbus thing at the [TS]

  beginning which is kind of ridiculous [TS]

  and and miss uses a lot of interesting [TS]

  actors or at least David Warner [TS]

  I know I feel like that's the word David [TS]

  Warner I know I love him so much in this [TS]

  film up and and and learns like Lawrence [TS]

  luck bill i think is terrible in this is [TS]

  it is not i mean i know they wanted I [TS]

  guess Sean Connery for it but who surely [TS]

  there was a better suited actor to play [TS]

  a Vulcan cult leader than Lawrence luck [TS]

  and Bill who is just this kind of genial [TS]

  guy it's just it's baffling it's [TS]

  baffling to me he is a contrast I mean [TS]

  he's supposed to be a jovial Vulcan so [TS]

  true and in the documentary Harv Bennett [TS]

  said this is gonna be a great scene [TS]

  we're going to show of Vulcan and then [TS]

  he's going to laugh at people are going [TS]

  to lose their minds and there's an [TS]

  awkward pause and he says next time like [TS]

  i got i can see so many things in this [TS]

  movie working in West they were thinking [TS]

  about him and that's one of them and [TS]

  that's like yeah that's kind of an [TS]

  interesting idea [TS]

  it's not done very well nothing in this [TS]

  film is done very well yeah I wouldn't [TS]

  say this is a good movie but I certainly [TS]

  found it more entertaining than the [TS]

  other movie just because they said [TS]

  things happening on the screen or any [TS]

  gentleman who have steak but it was just [TS]

  moving rapidly in front of your eyes I [TS]

  will grant you that money let me [TS]

  summarize the plot of this one by the [TS]

  way [TS]

  Kirk and Spock McCoy and the rest of the [TS]

  crew of the enterprise are on a camping [TS]

  trip and they're called back to the [TS]

  enterprise because again for reasons [TS]

  unknown they're the only ship that can [TS]

  go and deal with this diplomatic problem [TS]

  where there are hostages at a base in [TS]

  the neutral zone when they get there the [TS]

  enterprise is taken over by the hostile [TS]

  force of people who kidnapped led by a [TS]

  Vulcan who apparently is box [TS]

  half-brother and the they take the [TS]

  enterprise to the center of the galaxy [TS]

  through the great barrier which is not [TS]

  the same great barrier on the outside of [TS]

  the galaxy because this one is [TS]

  apparently on the inside the galaxy star [TS]

  trek moment there it's not they find a [TS]

  planet there's a big head [TS]

  it says it's God Kirk says but wait a [TS]

  second why you what you need a ride on [TS]

  our spaceship if your God and then I [TS]

  wrong they run around a little bit and [TS]

  apparently God blows up with a photon [TS]

  torpedo also there are some comedy also [TS]

  i should say in the other side plot [TS]

  there are seeing some comic relief [TS]

  bonds with the worst Klingon makeup you [TS]

  will ever see and they the at the end [TS]

  the Klingon ambassador makes them [TS]

  apologize that Star Trek five and then [TS]

  there's a cocktail party I was expecting [TS]

  that like I was like apologize now [TS]

  commit ritual suicide in front of [TS]

  everybody [TS]

  okay you can't forget the cocktail party [TS]

  where they all high-five about how great [TS]

  they are now that's true that the end of [TS]

  movie it does i'm surprised that they [TS]

  all didn't tell a joke and laugh [TS]

  together I was betrayed by their father [TS]

  misuse of the word marshmallow and then [TS]

  I had to read the back story i was even [TS]

  more upset about it there's backstory [TS]

  yes [TS]

  oh you mean yes with the marshmallow not [TS]

  futuristic marshmallow dispenser [TS]

  yeah and it says marsh melanie has in [TS]

  the novelization know he has manipulated [TS]

  the memory banks spot learns I like shut [TS]

  up [TS]

  yeah bill mhm it was a joke that didn't [TS]

  land we're okay with that i will sit [TS]

  there are two things i did like about [TS]

  Star Trek five number one after the [TS]

  previous three or four movies that [TS]

  looked so horribly like not just a TV [TS]

  show but like this though when the last [TS]

  three episodes of the third to the last [TS]

  episode in the shooting schedule where [TS]

  they've run out of money and they need [TS]

  to save all the money for like the [TS]

  two-part season finale and so there's [TS]

  just no money to make anything look okay [TS]

  ever so there are parts of it that [TS]

  actually look like an actual movie and I [TS]

  also like the one there's one actually [TS]

  really good thread that they've managed [TS]

  to put through most of the movies and [TS]

  that is the fact that these guys is [TS]

  getting old they get older they don't [TS]

  like getting old that don't like the [TS]

  fact that they're not really in touch [TS]

  and they're no longer the a prime crew [TS]

  anymore and so as a result Starfleet for [TS]

  them becomes just these three or four [TS]

  people that they've grown to know and [TS]

  love [TS]

  so I i'm willing to give them a bit of a [TS]

  mulligan on the sitting around the [TS]

  campfire bits and then the beans and [TS]

  bourbon jokes in the marshmallow and [TS]

  stuff other than that the fact that I [TS]

  used to have my bike locked up with [TS]

  Windows kryptonite locks you can open [TS]

  without with a pic with a big pen I [TS]

  didn't know the enterprise cuz was easy [TS]

  to steal and that that was that 10,000 [TS]

  not a good idea [TS]

  well especially after structu when we [TS]

  discover all the locks and things they [TS]

  got you're like wait we already know [TS]

  five-digit code [TS]

  we should go to execute a couple hours [TS]

  to go through all those combinations [TS]

  what did you know eight you read about [TS]

  how Shatner had this grand plan and you [TS]

  know okay there's the Writers Guild [TS]

  strike then there was the the special [TS]

  effects that didn't that didn't work in [TS]

  ilm gave them sort of like the the [TS]

  cast-off special effects and hundred and [TS]

  ten degree weather drink some of the [TS]

  shooting and and an ego [TS]

  alright alright bad things happen fine [TS]

  but you know and and there is there is [TS]

  like the kernel of an interesting idea [TS]

  again you know it's like there's [TS]

  something philosophical there's [TS]

  something very trick to the concept of [TS]

  it but it's also badly done and it'sit's [TS]

  shatter being self-indulgent for the [TS]

  whole thing of course there's something [TS]

  track about it they're always meeting [TS]

  space gods yes it is in fact when people [TS]

  say when people negatively review a star [TS]

  trek movie because they say it doesn't [TS]

  really fit into the ideals of the [TS]

  television series i point out that the [TS]

  two worst Star Trek movies arguably are [TS]

  the ones that are most closely aligned [TS]

  to the ideals of Star Trek series and [TS]

  that started the motion picture and star [TS]

  trek five where nothing much happens and [TS]

  it's kind of dumb because there's just a [TS]

  space God or cloud at the end because [TS]

  the the thing that kills me about it is [TS]

  you you read about how Shatner fought to [TS]

  keep everything in and and they had to [TS]

  you know Harv gonna cut it down and they [TS]

  had to recut it because chatter wanted [TS]

  more stuff and watching this and [TS]

  thinking and and he needed all these [TS]

  effects right so what are all these [TS]

  effects well he's got all these [TS]

  shuttlecrafts flying around because [TS]

  transporter doesn't work [TS]

  oh no and then they're looking at things [TS]

  through the view screen and the window [TS]

  in the shuttlecraft and they're doing [TS]

  all these things if you had just left [TS]

  the transporter alone your story would [TS]

  have been sharper and you have been able [TS]

  to cut like all of these special effects [TS]

  you have had this like stock effect that [TS]

  was easy to do that they did all the [TS]

  time and you could've actually like made [TS]

  more story this for a short film this [TS]

  has a lot of dead time of them just [TS]

  sitting in the shuttlecrafts flying [TS]

  again and it's just it's Star Trek the [TS]

  motion picture done not as well [TS]

  well I wonder if this was more of an [TS]

  inspiration for galaxy quest then more [TS]

  than some of the other movies and TV [TS]

  show [TS]

  a couple scenes in here was like this is [TS]

  a shot-for-shot a galaxy quest moment [TS]

  and that sort of tone the bombastic mess [TS]

  of it and that self-importance even Curt [TS]

  mean both him directing the film but [TS]

  also the way his characters played in [TS]

  the movie both were very much [TS]

  i I don't know I because i haven't seen [TS]

  for a long time like JC don't know four [TS]

  seasons was in the theater maybe once [TS]

  and I saw it just snapped into into that [TS]

  parody mode i had never seen it but I [TS]

  had seen Star Trek the motion picture [TS]

  when it came out and not since and I'd [TS]

  never seen this and back-to-back I liked [TS]

  this more just because something was [TS]

  happening [TS]

  mhm i will agree that something happens [TS]

  I do i do agree i'm not gonna I'm not [TS]

  gonna refuse that there there there is [TS]

  motion on the screen a whole lot more [TS]

  I mean to be fair my notes and right [TS]

  after the camping trip and pick up at [TS]

  the end of saying what is with this [TS]

  cocktail party [TS]

  yeah didn't matter but I have a lot of [TS]

  notes on the camera i hate i hate the [TS]

  the side-box stuff a lot i hate the give [TS]

  me your pain thing I don't think it's [TS]

  clear at all in the script of how that [TS]

  works and how it's it's it's mind [TS]

  control but it's also not mind control [TS]

  it's just that once you don't have turns [TS]

  out Sulu and Chekov in hora the only [TS]

  reason that they followed orders was [TS]

  because they were tormented by their [TS]

  internal pain i guess because once they [TS]

  were relieved of that they were happy to [TS]

  go to the center of the galaxy with [TS]

  sidewalk i also really don't understand [TS]

  the scene where Sybok shows McCoy and [TS]

  Kirk and Spock or walk away and Spock [TS]

  the source of their pain because it's [TS]

  unclear whether that's first it's like [TS]

  is that happening in their heads or are [TS]

  they seeing it and then are the initial [TS]

  reaction shots from the other characters [TS]

  like they're also seeing your personal [TS]

  flashbacks which unless there's some [TS]

  really strange like forebrain mind-meld [TS]

  thing happening [TS]

  it kinda doesn't hold up and doesn't [TS]

  make any sense [TS]

  and although the if the the scene with [TS]

  McCoy and his dad is affecting in it in [TS]

  a way and i know david i think i said [TS]

  it's the only thing in the movie that [TS]

  really works if it is yeah mostly works [TS]

  it none of it none of it does not make [TS]

  any sense luck until I find not [TS]

  believable at any point I don't think he [TS]

  has any [TS]

  Dennis I don't think he believed him as [TS]

  jovial I don't believe him as a Vulcan I [TS]

  he's just a uh yeah he's a different [TS]

  kind of open it is it's really it's [TS]

  really like at the edge of what could [TS]

  have been really deep and profound if [TS]

  they had if they had really committed to [TS]

  look what if the yeah they sure keep [TS]

  coming back to the idea of hey look I [TS]

  got my pain I gotta deal with the things [TS]

  i have to be responsible for as I'm [TS]

  watching this every excuse me at the end [TS]

  of it i'm thinking my god would have [TS]

  been wonderful if it were questionable [TS]

  whether they'd actually found God or not [TS]

  yeah there's enough evidence that no [TS]

  actually we did find God but Kirk [TS]

  because he knows that well if this is an [TS]

  imprisoned alien entity these kids gonna [TS]

  kill everybody so we can't take a chance [TS]

  let's kill God and then for the [TS]

  basically for the capture the movie has [TS]

  to be well yeah I might have basically [TS]

  disconnected all of creation from this [TS]

  source of light and love and perfect [TS]

  truth I gotta deal with that and [TS]

  everyone's gonna like you're gonna hate [TS]

  me for it [TS]

  I mean there's so many simple problems [TS]

  like you maybe you you mentioned whether [TS]

  sidewalk has these magical powers if you [TS]

  the fact that you make them a Vulcan [TS]

  makes you have to question from the very [TS]

  beginning is this something that is he [TS]

  actually a very positive therapeutic [TS]

  sort of guy or is he just having and [TS]

  doing a mind-meld sort of thing and [TS]

  making people look at like the like the [TS]

  long either mystic whatever whatever [TS]

  that stupid the medium medium long [TS]

  medium that's the sidewalk has no shades [TS]

  of gray and if we were wondering about [TS]

  side pocket we wonder is he a cult [TS]

  leader is a murderer or it is the UH [TS]

  meaning you know a good intention guy is [TS]

  a mind-controlling us or is he [TS]

  and that sort of lays there in the [TS]

  script but it's never really i did like [TS]

  one moment though the one moment which [TS]

  is one of the cheesiest moments when he [TS]

  says we're gonna go find God Kirk says [TS]

  you are bad and just the look yeah I [TS]

  don't doubt that i dislike that's [TS]

  actually that is surprising it was good [TS]

  i think this movie fails so bad not just [TS]

  for general audiences but for hardcore [TS]

  Star Trek fans you know Star Trek for [TS]

  appeal to everybody it was a it was a [TS]

  crowd-pleaser it fans loved it [TS]

  general audiences really loved it yeah [TS]

  this one fails [TS]

  one of the weight ways that it failed [TS]

  with the failed with the hardcore [TS]

  Trekkies is that we'd already seen a [TS]

  much better story about an emotional [TS]

  Vulcan in the McIntyre's novel [TS]

  enterprise the first adventure which a [TS]

  lot of Star Trek's and even yes yes it's [TS]

  a it's a great story that's a much more [TS]

  it is much more effective take on the on [TS]

  the notion of what would be what it [TS]

  would be like for a Vulcan to be [TS]

  emotional it's in its box cousin so [TS]

  right off the bat hardcore Trekkies who [TS]

  buy the books and all this stuff or like [TS]

  we've seen this before this is not new [TS]

  the other thing that really pisses me [TS]

  off about this movie is how every [TS]

  character other than Kirk even even [TS]

  spoken McCoy every other character is [TS]

  taken down a few pegs there is made fun [TS]

  off the engineer can't fix the ship and [TS]

  bashes head the navigator and helmsman [TS]

  get lost in the woods all communications [TS]

  officer dances nude Spock's still out of [TS]

  it even though he was all better at the [TS]

  end of the last movie it's a joke that [TS]

  check off could be the cannon captain I [TS]

  hate this movie what it does to the [TS]

  characters every character in this tells [TS]

  Kirk how brilliant he is he's the only [TS]

  one who with Stan's Sybok and any [TS]

  apparently Spock and McCoy the original [TS]

  draft we're also going to just go [TS]

  totally with sidewalk and and the two of [TS]

  them are good with that and said no our [TS]

  characters wouldn't do that and so [TS]

  that's the only reason they don't but [TS]

  but yet everything is kirk is great and [TS]

  then Kirk is God you know and and [TS]

  especially that that moment in the end [TS]

  the cat at the end of the movie he goes [TS]

  maybe God's right here and he taps his [TS]

  chest and there's that pause before he [TS]

  says in the human heart [TS]

  well that's not too oh that's not that [TS]

  out of Star Trek cannon though like a [TS]

  lot of Star Trek seems to be based [TS]

  around and Kirk is the greatest guy in [TS]

  the world like Star Trek Star Trek to [TS]

  everybody love star trek to but he's so [TS]

  great [TS]

  he broke the Kobayashi Maru we don't [TS]

  mind it there [TS]

  yeah but but it's everybody's kind of [TS]

  annoyed with him for [TS]

  and graceful and he's flawed he is a [TS]

  flawed PS user is refusing to accept his [TS]

  his his own mortality and aging in the [TS]

  ears kobayashi maru is a symptom of him [TS]

  not being able to accept reality which [TS]

  is not the case in Star Trek five he's [TS]

  certainly flawed here because he claims [TS]

  he loves the song row row your boat [TS]

  doesn't make any Souls it's a great song [TS]

  we don't have nobody left that licensing [TS]

  the song we go to the public domain [TS]

  well I think about the movie wasn't [TS]

  being happy birthday watching at the end [TS]

  with the with especially after during [TS]

  the episode and wearing the captain [TS]

  stubing shirt i realized that the end [TS]

  David Warner comes up with the Romulan [TS]

  ambassador it puts his arm around her [TS]

  and sexy and stupid I'm like this is the [TS]

  end of the love boat this last year and [TS]

  yeah everyone your hair's up everything [TS]

  sadly no Mary's Charo yeah it doesn't [TS]

  matter at all kinds people died and all [TS]

  kinds of things are going wrong it's [TS]

  like and now let's put the happy music [TS]

  at the end hopefully at least they're [TS]

  treating their female characters [TS]

  consistently throughout from the start [TS]

  and the end of the movie so so but this [TS]

  is of course the the infamous over a fan [TS]

  dance scene isn't here i am in the midst [TS]

  of a even more ludicrous scene involving [TS]

  the desert raid that happens on the on [TS]

  the the whatever-it-is desert outpost [TS]

  that is ignited in the new tradition [TS]

  Kirk solo march to the bar to rescue the [TS]

  hostages and he's attacked by a triple [TS]

  breasted cat warrior this is beyond get [TS]

  Ripper cat stripper [TS]

  thank you and and he lifts her up and [TS]

  throw her into the pools or face down [TS]

  she's dead and it's will order dance in [TS]

  my neighborhood it's a cool too and I'm [TS]

  like it goes on they cut back and she's [TS]

  still motionless facedown you know a [TS]

  chance she was the star to look at [TS]

  business hurt her like her like she's [TS]

  like the logo of that bar feeling neon [TS]

  yeah if you notice but let's say I did [TS]

  have to like actually come up your for [TS]

  female characters two of them do [TS]

  stripteases and the other two one of [TS]

  them is a Klingon warrior ok that's cool [TS]

  and the last one is just as she's just [TS]

  cheesy ambassadors there too [TS]

  hey dollface really got through alleged [TS]

  we hate and and one of the Klingon [TS]

  warrior she gets ogled by yeah check out [TS]

  yeah and just really powerful legs [TS]

  she's great muscle person was makeup is [TS]

  unlike any other women sling on we ever [TS]

  see she's got like a lipgloss people can [TS]

  exact same thing that we did was take [TS]

  them something on wants to be pretty [TS]

  ya know i'm going to click on but that's [TS]

  not how they are pretty maybe if it was [TS]

  like the blood of her and her big events [TS]

  or something they would she have put ya [TS]

  human these Klingons are on the [TS]

  spaceship they have been exposed to [TS]

  other cultures [TS]

  these are the worst Klingons in any Star [TS]

  Trek movie you guys know that's how [TS]

  powerful advertising is they even [TS]

  managed to Shane McLane onto itself to [TS]

  itself load that's because she's worth [TS]

  it for all the things in this movie that [TS]

  are awful and there's so many it's all [TS]

  almost all of them you know what's you [TS]

  know what's the one thing that drives me [TS]

  nuts through almost the entire film when [TS]

  Spock nerve pinches a horse [TS]

  James Jones terrible artifact although [TS]

  yes where the enterprise is sort of a [TS]

  drift because the special effects guy is [TS]

  incompetent and always from the back [TS]

  hook no I the the little gray and brown [TS]

  and TN military sweaters that they have [TS]

  for their assault rate i love that cost [TS]

  of salt sweaters you know they're [TS]

  wonderful [TS]

  the thing that drives me nuts for the [TS]

  whole thing is Kirk's little collar has [TS]

  that little section that sort of folded [TS]

  under the sweater and then I guess they [TS]

  kept it because they couldn't reshoot [TS]

  something so they kept the continuity of [TS]

  it all through the movie i'm going to [TS]

  fix your damn collar Jim fast the caller [TS]

  that's all it's that it's a stupid my [TS]

  David that's not that's like number [TS]

  9,000 on the offenses and I know but you [TS]

  keep seeing over the moment you fix that [TS]

  color this movie who really good [TS]

  there are some guidelines there are some [TS]

  guidelines of the god what has gotten [TS]

  spaceship but it's also the star liked [TS]

  it better before he died [TS]

  that's a great line yeah like that it [TS]

  suggested that the previous movies had [TS]

  happened [TS]

  yeah it's exactly it's not that it's [TS]

  synthetic likely it's like God I want to [TS]

  make sure before he died [TS]

  another thing I just like about this [TS]

  movie by the way is the lighting III [TS]

  appreciate Andy saying that it feels [TS]

  cinematic at various points i find i [TS]

  find that it [TS]

  it's very poorly lit it's it's weirdly [TS]

  kind of yellow and they're strange [TS]

  shadows and it doesn't seem stylistic to [TS]

  me it seems incompetent to me and it's [TS]

  just a I think the movie looks bad [TS]

  because of it because the lighting is so [TS]

  weird and and not good so I'll throw [TS]

  that on the pile to some pretty major [TS]

  ilj so yeah I feel terms with pink why [TS]

  pinks and purples and lavenders and just [TS]

  express shiners colorful guy but that I [TS]

  thought the opening scenes were pretty [TS]

  good like that in the end it just just [TS]

  the cinematography just with just the [TS]

  way that was photographed and here i'm [TS]

  not talking about woody this is one of [TS]

  the greatest like this could have been a [TS]

  David Lee movie talk about i'm used to [TS]

  like Star Trek for and star trek to [TS]

  where it looks like just they sent [TS]

  somebody on said you've got a [TS]

  hundred bucks to buy some LED lights [TS]

  will click them right to the front of [TS]

  the camera will buy some high intensity [TS]

  high-wattage light bulbs will put the [TS]

  lamps in the back at least looked like a [TS]

  movie then actually play out like a [TS]

  movie but at least like I think Star [TS]

  Trek to looks way more like a movie star [TS]

  trek five does especially when are [TS]

  poorly lit a certain either argue star [TS]

  trek for looks way more like a movie [TS]

  star trek yeah I'm star trek 3 looks [TS]

  like a TV show [TS]

  yes yeah yeah what more can we say about [TS]

  Star Trek five anybody have anything [TS]

  else to say like everybody loves desert [TS]

  planets you got a raucous you got to [TS]

  wean you got the dry land [TS]

  you get embarrassed sims3 it joins the [TS]

  Pantheon is desert wastes and lacked [TS]

  peace and also the chief exporter of [TS]

  holes as we see the whole farmer even [TS]

  open shot yes [TS]

  yeah is we got a long as i got it for [TS]

  midnight oil getting those are beautiful [TS]

  so in this 3 is a planet where weapons [TS]

  are not allowed the whole planet [TS]

  appearances barristers bandits full of [TS]

  galactic peace and many dollars and [TS]

  Sandy similarly well it's easy to have a [TS]

  planet of peace if nobody wants to go [TS]

  there and that's really not a lot of [TS]

  words on the South Pole either so what [TS]

  in in reading thousands of galactic [TS]

  peace [TS]

  I you know I found out that [TS]

  Harv Bennett apparently blamed the [TS]

  failure of the movie partly on people [TS]

  you know suddenly we have the next [TS]

  generation on driver fatigue than they'd [TS]

  rather stay home and watch that at home [TS]

  yeah it's like if that were true it [TS]

  wouldn't have been the number one movie [TS]

  wouldn't have been the number one movie [TS]

  in weekend yeah he knows people came out [TS]

  for it and then they saw it when God [TS]

  know it is funny to see that it turns [TS]

  out that people involved in the creation [TS]

  of Star Trek five like to blame the [TS]

  existence of Star Trek The Next [TS]

  Generation its failure because it was [TS]

  the first Star Trek film to be released [TS]

  with a Star Trek TV series on the air [TS]

  but they're wrong time we expected [TS]

  I mean the other thing is you have your [TS]

  director and even if you don't like [TS]

  you're George Takei and you don't really [TS]

  care about chatter you're still doing [TS]

  what the director tells you you're still [TS]

  following had their vision of this story [TS]

  and and so it's kind of like natalie [TS]

  portman in the prequels she is a really [TS]

  good actress she has awful in the [TS]

  prequels because she's doing what the [TS]

  director told her to do and in this case [TS]

  you've got Shatner and so yeah they're [TS]

  all they're doing what they can [TS]

  I mean anything that is good in a [TS]

  delivery of a line almost has to be [TS]

  subversive right it has to be the actor [TS]

  saying I this is I can I know how to do [TS]

  this line bill shut up and and the only [TS]

  times that they really come alive when [TS]

  they are being funny when they are in [TS]

  these scenes that are just what you [TS]

  think of is as shatters goofiness don't [TS]

  tell me how to say it [TS]

  it sickens me because I feel like one of [TS]

  the mistakes in this movie is is this [TS]

  kind of over confidence in the ability [TS]

  for them to do comedy that starcraft for [TS]

  which is a funny movie and they do a [TS]

  good job and it is a really clever trick [TS]

  to get that movie to be as funny as it [TS]

  is and i feel like its star trek five [TS]

  just thinks oh we're funny and is really [TS]

  lazy with its jokes and the most [TS]

  offensive [TS]

  actually we mentioned earlier i want to [TS]

  say i think the single worst thing that [TS]

  happens in any Star Trek movie is Scotty [TS]

  walking into the the beam you call my [TS]

  god and then they haven't be unconscious [TS]

  and take him to sick bay so they even [TS]

  like oh no but it's a plot point now to [TS]

  it's not just a joke it's a plot point [TS]

  people and it is it is you know where is [TS]

  the sad trombone music at that point is [TS]

  so terrible [TS]

  it's not only just against his character [TS]

  it's not funny it is the bassist form of [TS]

  slapstick but I think throughout this [TS]

  movie [TS]

  the jokes are way too easy and it's [TS]

  because honestly somebody thought hey [TS]

  we're great comedy now and start [TS]

  recording it was was harder to do than [TS]

  that it was a tougher trick them and the [TS]

  pacing of that moment doesn't even work [TS]

  no I mean that I don't like the back of [TS]

  my hand funk and i think is all the [TS]

  relationships in the movie and this to [TS]

  harp on this because we should this bad [TS]

  is even a bit where he wakes up and [TS]

  there's a her I'm like are they in a [TS]

  relationship it's portrayed a child's [TS]

  level both in the first part where she [TS]

  bring some dinner the plastic bin the [TS]

  tiny bag right and that part 80 and [TS]

  likes are the action relationship are [TS]

  you just you're just doing some kind of [TS]

  like infantile it was almost like Scotty [TS]

  can feed himself when he gets wrapped up [TS]

  in what he's doing [TS]

  let's eat dinner but i will say going [TS]

  back to that documentary and the the [TS]

  funny thing [TS]

  william shatner said you know I wanted [TS]

  to make this a drama it wasn't supposed [TS]

  to be funny or supposed to be you know [TS]

  they're looking for ipod and they told [TS]

  me since Star Trek for was so popular we [TS]

  needed to make Star Trek 5 funny [TS]

  yeah that's it felt to me like somebody [TS]

  looked at the script said this neat [TS]

  thing needs to be more zany you have a [TS]

  comedy feels like somebody striving for [TS]

  zany yeah and and the characters have no [TS]

  heart as a result that just a dry speak [TS]

  the inter it's just drives me crazy [TS]

  it shares some of the faults that [TS]

  nemesis has in that the characters even [TS]

  especially through Star Trek two through [TS]

  four they had an arc they had a reason [TS]

  to be going from point A to point B and [TS]

  then star trek five [TS]

  hey all of a sudden we're back on the [TS]

  ship we're back where we started from [TS]

  we're just older and what will be funny [TS]

  now but it's wanders and and we did talk [TS]

  about this in the star trek for episode [TS]

  of random to track its ponder its [TS]

  wonders that last bit of star trek for [TS]

  when the movie and star trek for has [TS]

  this little little a skoda we're on the [TS]

  bridge of the enterprise [TS]

  it's like finally after this whole story [TS]

  between Star Trek 2 3 and 4 has gotten [TS]

  us to this point where we can go back [TS]

  out and have other adventures like you [TS]

  remember from the old star trek series [TS]

  won't this be great and then we get star [TS]

  trek five [TS]

  we were wrong when i gave you what you [TS]

  asked for [TS]

  not what you wanted no I mean not Star [TS]

  Trek the motion picture I look at it as [TS]

  like a noble failure they were trying to [TS]

  do grand things they just did it badly [TS]

  this is hack this is that this is just [TS]

  this is just hacked out garbage i can't [TS]

  i cannot improve upon your garbage Jason [TS]

  it is garbage [TS]

  yeah yeah you know it's I didn't have [TS]

  the strong opinion after finishing [TS]

  watching until we talked about it and i [TS]

  realize i watched the motion picture of [TS]

  that like was slow and thin but it was [TS]

  fine it's just dull right and after we [TS]

  talked about actually actively like this [TS]

  movie much less than what I watched it [TS]

  on monday disagrees [TS]

  I didn't do disagree i found Star Trek [TS]

  the motion picture god-awful boring you [TS]

  endless you're tracking shots you have [TS]

  special in back guess agree nothing [TS]

  happening at all at least in Star Trek [TS]

  five somebody wrote a joke [TS]

  somebody is trying to do something to [TS]

  ride some level of entertainment for me [TS]

  which did not happen in the first what [TS]

  we're arguing between is a movie that is [TS]

  smooth and slick and deadly boring and a [TS]

  movie that is crass and crappy but at [TS]

  least moves along a nice clip and has [TS]

  some study and risers and tries and I [TS]

  think it's up to all of us to decide [TS]

  which would which of those we would [TS]

  prefer them i think they're both awful [TS]

  and I was with when I hated more and i [TS]

  hated the first one a lot more than the [TS]

  second I user is searching 5i i think [TS]

  i've come to accept that Star Trek the [TS]

  motion picture is just going to be kind [TS]

  of pretty and boring and go on forever [TS]

  or star trek five just makes me angry [TS]

  with it with each other of the two of [TS]

  the two friends that I i agree they're [TS]

  both awful [TS]

  the only thing that gives star trek five [TS]

  any kind of edge for me and I'm not I'm [TS]

  not even saying I like it better than [TS]

  the motion picture but that one scene [TS]

  with McCoy and his father not even the [TS]

  Sybok part of it just that sequence [TS]

  between the two of them is more powerful [TS]

  than anything in the motion picture that [TS]

  that scene is great the hands and you [TS]

  know and and [TS]

  but it's also the most serious scene in [TS]

  the whole damn movie you know for this [TS]

  is a movie here is this really intense [TS]

  saying of of euthanasia and and him [TS]

  realizing that he if he had just waited [TS]

  but maybe his father couldn't have [TS]

  waited you know and and that and well [TS]

  and I was gonna say that it's not even [TS]

  that feels like a manufactured story i [TS]

  mean that that feels like someone who [TS]

  has gone through that at least the the [TS]

  experience of a parent dying and I mean [TS]

  it hit me in the theater in 1989 it's [TS]

  him even more now as an older person who [TS]

  has added a pair and I and I mean it's [TS]

  just really nicely done [TS]

  how much of that is you know the actors [TS]

  and then the moment how much of that is [TS]

  the writing I don't know you know I [TS]

  thought that I'm with you there i [TS]

  thought that was most certainly I think [TS]

  the strongest seen the entire movie one [TS]

  of very few strong scenes in the movie [TS]

  but it also was sort of emblematic of [TS]

  the problems with a movie that they just [TS]

  don't know how to trust you seem to play [TS]

  out in and of itself [TS]

  yes that was what if what if it wasn't [TS]

  that oh that oh my they discovered a [TS]

  cure for two hours late two years later [TS]

  was just know you had no there was no [TS]

  cure discovered for your spending the [TS]

  rest of your unit you're going to spend [TS]

  the rest of your life no matter what [TS]

  wondering if it was the right thing to [TS]

  do and even was the right thing to do it [TS]

  was going to be completely gutting to [TS]

  know that you can get that no matter how [TS]

  correct it was you are responsible for [TS]

  the death of your father at that time [TS]

  just like if they decided to go with the [TS]

  sort of thing where what if there's [TS]

  nothing magical or mystical about it [TS]

  what if there's just a message that says [TS]

  whatever it is you've done in your life [TS]

  that is the beauty of it cause you to [TS]

  put three bricks in the backpack you're [TS]

  carrying everyday your life you can take [TS]

  those bricks out you don't you're not [TS]

  responsible for that and not that a not [TS]

  that you have this little junior high [TS]

  literary magazine twist at the end [TS]

  wait a minute you mean that this pill [TS]

  actually never did anything to our [TS]

  brains at all it just allowed us to [TS]

  forgive ourselves you know it's but [TS]

  they're so this is the most frustrating [TS]

  thing about movies for me is when you [TS]

  can see oh god you just there's one more [TS]

  door he opens the glass door you would [TS]

  have found something beautiful but he [TS]

  said nope work [TS]

  good let's go Matt room and seeing the [TS]

  original cut then then it's like oh and [TS]

  by the way bones a shuttlecraft fell [TS]

  from the sky onto his grave and [TS]

  destroyed the crap and then a starship [TS]

  fella you know I came up with an even [TS]

  pedestrians level along the scenes [TS]

  didn't make enough then shoulda neva [TS]

  takes because i'm watching some stuff [TS]

  and I'm like that someone actually [TS]

  misspoke several times I've never asked [TS]

  they actually said something wrong or [TS]

  almost wrong and that was to take the [TS]

  you did not have coverage my [TS]

  understanding i read a couple articles [TS]

  about the making of this my [TS]

  understanding was that in in several [TS]

  cases they had so little time they were [TS]

  running so late and over schedule that [TS]

  they would just yet they do it take her [TS]

  too and they're moving on to the next [TS]

  thing and and it's you know when Shatner [TS]

  it's his first directorial effort and [TS]

  you know you don't get the sense that he [TS]

  had a whole lot of a support network [TS]

  around him that he did this because he [TS]

  could damn it not because he didn't have [TS]

  a family around him who is helping him [TS]

  do this and like hard Bennett didn't [TS]

  want to be there and you know that [TS]

  William dude let anymore really want to [TS]

  be involved in this in this film that [TS]

  that his old buddy was directing and you [TS]

  know just to k really didn't like him [TS]

  and didn't want to be in it and I don't [TS]

  know if he was not at all although not a [TS]

  did say he enjoyed it yeah after the [TS]

  fact he said that yeah I I think we've [TS]

  chatter was a professional guy and they [TS]

  they wanted it they didn't want him to [TS]

  fail and they were trying to sabotage [TS]

  him but i'm not sure they were all [TS]

  standing around like saying bill how can [TS]

  I help can't let me take some of your [TS]

  pain so water king was on it for 10 days [TS]

  yeah yeah sienna and the scriptwriter [TS]

  you know foot four star trek 52 David la [TS]

  la [TS]

  Lowery Lowery Lowery is you know he did [TS]

  you know dreamscape before this and then [TS]

  he ended up doing pad passenger 57 [TS]

  that's right i think part of the problem [TS]

  with this movie and Star Trek the motion [TS]

  picture is there so many classic cast [TS]

  members you have to drag on get given [TS]

  their screen time give them their bit [TS]

  and you know what not many of the [TS]

  stories really require Sulu and check [TS]

  off to have a lot that's the problem [TS]

  with all the Star Trek movies you want [TS]

  to give them a few months humble yeah [TS]

  and then and then kind of move along [TS]

  unfortunately or her as mom [TS]

  and this seems to be to do a fandom [TS]

  that's no bueno in the coverage though [TS]

  i'm not going to defend this at all [TS]

  however i was surprised and reviewing [TS]

  this michelle nichols said no she was [TS]

  really liked it she liked doing it the [TS]

  only thing she was annoyed by as they [TS]

  dubbed over voice and I was just find I [TS]

  didn't know that I figured she'd be [TS]

  talked into it or they used a body [TS]

  double [TS]

  she wasn't involved she's like no no was [TS]

  great but they should use my singing [TS]

  yeah I'm shocked that was her because it [TS]

  she was completely silhouetted so you [TS]

  couldn't see her face [TS]

  mhm just like Shatner climbing the [TS]

  mountain where you can't see his face [TS]

  I really thought that was not michelle [TS]

  nichols yes it is [TS]

  zoom in a bit guys yeah well i gotta say [TS]

  based on these two movies I don't know [TS]

  why you guys like Star Trek so much haha [TS]

  all the rest of it's like Isis example [TS]

  put sky I promise I'm gonna throw this [TS]

  the last question we refer to you which [TS]

  is do you have a do you have a thought [TS]

  about which one of these films is is [TS]

  that the worst well star trek five does [TS]

  have a scene where Klingon bird-of-prey [TS]

  shoots got in the face [TS]

  yeah that but I think Star Trek five is [TS]

  far worse than Star Trek the motion [TS]

  picture only because of the same moment [TS]

  that you pick Jason of Scotty hitting [TS]

  his head on that beam is it is the lunch [TS]

  line worst thing in star trek by far [TS]

  yeah I do not like it yeah I didn't like [TS]

  the first time I started five I didn't [TS]

  like it the second time I saw Star Trek [TS]

  5 which was for this podcast doesn't [TS]

  feel bad to have that blu-ray it's a [TS]

  little like I feel about having the [TS]

  Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the [TS]

  Crystal Skull blu-ray it's not because I [TS]

  got the box but it with other words but [TS]

  I own it now i feel like i want to put a [TS]

  post-it so that if if your relatives are [TS]

  cleaning out your house after you die to [TS]

  look it was part of the set a forehand [TS]

  and the boxes so flimsy that I simply [TS]

  took it out and threw it away they would [TS]

  like go in on the side is provided some [TS]

  needed structure for the actual physical [TS]

  it's it's nestled between Star Trek for [TS]

  Star Trek six both of which i like so [TS]

  yeah both better better films all right [TS]

  well I'm gonna wrap this up this is this [TS]

  this end part one of our our trip to bad [TS]

  star trek movie land there will be in [TS]

  really cathartic anything in a few weeks [TS]

  we will do we will do another one that [TS]

  has a different panel and we will be [TS]

  talking about the next generation two [TS]

  films from the next generation series [TS]

  that we considered the worst of the two [TS]

  although i'm not convinced you know [TS]

  there is a question about really there's [TS]

  only the one good one so there you know [TS]

  and many of you have three other ones [TS]

  but we will watch two of those for that [TS]

  for that one but I'm but this has been a [TS]

  trip to the the low points of the [TS]

  original series Star Trek films [TS]

  I'd like to thank my guests for for [TS]

  sharing their pain and learning from the [TS]

  sharing David lord thank you thank you I [TS]

  I thought I didn't like Star Trek five [TS]

  before but now i really hate it so this [TS]

  has been good could have been healing [TS]

  you've taken my pain good Glenn [TS]

  fleischmann the transporter is good [TS]

  well as they always say broken the needs [TS]

  of the many are outweighed by the needs [TS]

  of the PU all right Doug strips other [TS]

  shock re thank you Jason you have proved [TS]

  yourself worthy to receive from us this [TS]

  symbol of total logic excellent very [TS]

  nice indian not co torpedo away I i will [TS]

  say that this has been very helpful in [TS]

  that just your last five minutes has [TS]

  made me realize it i still think that [TS]

  the worst i don't like really love any [TS]

  of the Star Trek movies but i think that [TS]

  ok star trek to but I said I do realize [TS]

  that as painful as watching one and five [TS]

  were i think i would have just not been [TS]

  able to show up for screening for for [TS]

  the show if we were doing Star Trek next [TS]

  generation movies because those were [TS]

  just sins against Isis there since [TS]

  yesterday stay tuned stay Times list [TS]

  powerful and yeah everybody got to [TS]

  choose which one they wanted to be on I [TS]

  would have sent you two minutes and [TS]

  weeping into the microphone i would drop [TS]

  about it with your little sentimental [TS]

  reserve activation clause that got me [TS]

  here [TS]

  Monty Ashley they gave they give her [TS]

  back to me Monty in the words of the [TS]

  Klingons in Star Trek five burp and of [TS]

  course Scott melty thank you [TS]

  life is not a dream who Nick very nice [TS]

  and thank you to everybody out there for [TS]

  listening to this episode i hope you [TS]

  didn't watch these movies before [TS]

  listening because uh I feel bad [TS]

  we'd hate to have ruined them for young [TS]

  men from the spoilers and william [TS]

  shatner if you're listening I'm sorry [TS]

  it's really it's we've been calling it [TS]

  shatters folly for 25 years for a reason [TS]

  he's not building bills it's not about [TS]

  this you know he's blocked us already [TS]

  built can handle a few guys making fun [TS]

  of him on the internet it's apple booty [TS]

  screw that alright well thanks everybody [TS]

  for listening we will see you next time [TS]

  okay i have a closing statement [TS]

  ok Glen have to lay it on us so listen [TS]

  I'm the war and I speak for the probes I [TS]

  thought it was despicable the treatment [TS]

  of probes and both of these movies that [TS]

  forgot it was a through-line pyar 10 and [TS]

  the non-existent voyager 6 did not get [TS]

  the treatment they deserved but I've [TS]

  spent years writing about probes in the [TS]

  recent past [TS]

  I feel like I know them personally and I [TS]

  felt like these movies were two front to [TS]

  all the hard work and effort that they [TS]

  put in [TS]

  that's it i did feel bad for those [TS]

  probes its leader like we haven't kissed [TS]

  that Decker guy with his with his prime [TS]

  yeah drama i leave as a probe to [TS]

  everybody's proven i think if process [TS]

  Khambatta had had any sort of a [TS]

  character before turning into it I know [TS]

  she would have been way more interesting [TS]

  i know they I mean they almost gave her [TS]

  character but they didn't that innate it [TS]

  they should have just left her a [TS]

  nameless extra i'm turning out of any [TS]

  Linus you any movie that maybe cringe [TS]

  more than the celibacy of line i forgot [TS]

  it was coming then she said it I my [TS]

  memory [TS]

  it was presented a less exposed story [TS]

  fashion and that's when I don't I just [TS]

  thought that was fine i can't tell you [TS]

  the number number times I've shown for [TS]

  the first day work and someone for the [TS]

  first time I've taken about a brain cell [TS]

  identity [TS]

  ok just a dial nine to get an outside [TS]

  line of the means of here [TS]

  here's a bizarre thing i didn't mention [TS]

  the show which is out there is a line [TS]

  and stroking motion picture the baffles [TS]

  me which is maybe it's just my own [TS]

  personal taste here but when they're [TS]

  talking on the communicator to Starfleet [TS]

  Command when they've sent back you know [TS]

  melting piles of flesh that used to be [TS]

  people translating to say yeah the guy [TS]

  the guy on the other influences [TS]

  enterprise what we got back here didn't [TS]

  live long [TS]

  fortunately it's just like this guy just [TS]

  saw this guy saw people like melt and [TS]

  explode in a transporter room he should [TS]

  be like Enterprise it also have you also [TS]

  said two sections and I just say that [TS]

  like when I was a teenager downloading [TS]

  things using the xcode xmodem Morsy [TS]

  modem protocol there was something that [TS]

  protocol that said oh [TS]

  this connection is no good i'm not even [TS]

  advises yeah i just wish they were using [TS]

  zmodo again it was like on a list of [TS]

  like you know we never shown why McCoy [TS]

  is afraid of transporters so we let's [TS]

  have a transporter accident [TS]

  what does have to do with the movie [TS]

  nothing Star Trek five the contractual [TS]

  minutes i took a friend of mine from [TS]

  college to to this and she had never [TS]

  seen any Star Trek before he was like no [TS]

  I'll go with you that'll be fun and we [TS]

  go into the theater and the first off [TS]

  everybody it's a matinee showing its in [TS]

  my thing came out in june so it's like [TS]

  towards the end of the school year my [TS]

  freshman year in college and we go into [TS]

  the theater and it is entirely like the [TS]

  hardest of the hardcore Star Trek fans [TS]

  on the guy we're sitting next to has [TS]

  brought his reference material with him [TS]

  he's bad strap books and maybe like a [TS]

  clipboard and a pen and he's gonna take [TS]

  notes and all that and she looks at me [TS]

  like what have I gotten into an honest [TS]

  look I'm sorry I like Star Trek but you [TS]

  don't see me carrying around any books i [TS]

  left the books at home and he was gonna [TS]

  like annotate the drawings of the [TS]

  enterprise as it went I don't even know [TS]

  cells there so we sit down maybe he was [TS]

  just gonna entertain himself before the [TS]

  film so we sit down I'm thinking well [TS]

  you know at least we can enjoy the movie [TS]

  and it was starting five [TS]

  yeah we went opening night and it was [TS]

  just a whole bunch of my old high school [TS]

  friends and you know and beforehand it's [TS]

  like yeah start for was awesome yeah and [TS]

  we were very quiet at the investment and [TS]

  we just kind of looked at each other and [TS]

  when let's go get something to drink [TS]

  so that's why I'm so concerned about [TS]

  spoilers in the spot gases you know [TS]

  i-i-i my wish for people is that they [TS]

  have the exact same experience that we [TS]

  had as as children not knowing exactly [TS]

  how disappointed were going to be just [TS]

  let it be a surprise every one of these [TS]

  little things I didn't realize you had [TS]

  such a sadistic street to you and II and [TS]

  III see when when when you when you bite [TS]

  me I'll bite back [TS]

  that's all the fourteen-year-old looked [TS]

  up through both of these movies and why [TS]

  are you making me watch these now notice [TS]

  nobody's nobody's strapped into the [TS]

  chair walk away just walk by look at [TS]

  watch the good ones i got a lot of [TS]

  sympathy are discussing doesn't wear [TS]

  those great people feel really bad for [TS]

  me [TS]

  I looked at the slack and asked why are [TS]

  you making me watch these yeah me nobody [TS]

  nobody make know what exactly is it was [TS]

  that I was reflecting upon that tonight [TS]

  thing that I I knew how bad this movie [TS]

  was and yet I at some point i was asked [TS]

  would you like to watch this movie and [TS]

  talk about have 11 people say yes yes i [TS]

  would like to be on the bed Star Trek [TS]

  movies episode that's why we're doing [TS]

  two of them so I mysterious I [TS]

  legitimately never seen five and I'm [TS]

  like well that'll be something that it [TS]

  is something it is [TS]