The Incomparable

293: I Think I`m Still Confused


  the incomparable number 293 large 2060 [TS]

  welcome back everybody to the [TS]

  uncomfortable i'm your host Jason L we [TS]

  are here to convene another edition of [TS]

  our comic book club we're going to talk [TS]

  about the weekend in the divine by karen [TS]

  gillan and Jamie McKelvie published by [TS]

  image comics we're going to be delving [TS]

  into the first two trades will blow the [TS]

  spoiler horn before we get into a lot of [TS]

  detail about them so you can run away [TS]

  that there are three trade paperbacks [TS]

  available so you can we like a in our [TS]

  book club to make it so that you can go [TS]

  out and buy a trade paperback or two and [TS]

  have a good reading experience without [TS]

  requiring you to read like 800 issues of [TS]

  something anyway joining me to talk [TS]

  about the wicked and the divine I i have [TS]

  some excellent members of comic book [TS]

  club this time Lisa Schmeisser as always [TS]

  hello hi I'm said that we're doing this [TS]

  I it's good it's good to have the comic [TS]

  book club back in session [TS]

  mhm the Tony centralized out there hi [TS]

  Tony hello nerds [TS]

  I we got a hell on earth from Tony [TS]

  answer again but some people want for [TS]

  some reason a more new comic book reader [TS]

  but she's back for more complicated [TS]

  action [TS]

  it's a lien sims welcome back to the [TS]

  comic book club hi i need to catch [TS]

  phrase fruit any did need to workshop [TS]

  that later you hear hello nerds sweeping [TS]

  the nation so I've heard that but I I [TS]

  feel like that's already a strong brand [TS]

  association is probably does this trip [TS]

  I'm very litigious he's got the backing [TS]

  of the future Batman behind him too so [TS]

  you gotta be careful there who yeah yeah [TS]

  and also joining us Sheamus others hello [TS]

  Lefty keys [TS]

  welcome back to the comic book club [TS]

  thank you [TS]

  uh was not long ago and actually well as [TS]

  the as the recordings go was very long [TS]

  ago that we were we were talking about [TS]

  miss marvel but that episode didn't post [TS]

  too long ago so it seems to the [TS]

  listeners like we were just here like a [TS]

  month ago [TS]

  the boys are back so this image comics [TS]

  the wicked in the divine this is a [TS]

  really interesting series wikipedia [TS]

  tells me it's largely influenced by pop [TS]

  music okay good thanks Wikipedia [TS]

  an ancient religions it well done that's [TS]

  it right so the idea here is that is [TS]

  that there are these gods who are [TS]

  reincarnated and they live for a couple [TS]

  of years and then they die and then go [TS]

  away for 90 years in it and it uh it [TS]

  repeats and so we are introduced to some [TS]

  but not all at first of the 12 people in [TS]

  the pantheon of reincarnated gods and [TS]

  then there's a there's a we learn about [TS]

  the system the they call the the [TS]

  what-is-it the the recurrence where they [TS]

  live and then they die they discover who [TS]

  they are sort of as teenagers or [TS]

  thereabouts-- thinking they're normal [TS]

  people up until then and then there's [TS]

  sort of picked and added to the the [TS]

  Pantheon and then they live for a couple [TS]

  of years and then they die they're told [TS]

  what is that they will some will love [TS]

  you someone hate you you'll be dead [TS]

  within two years and I and and so thats [TS]

  pleasure [TS]

  that's part of the story and you get [TS]

  that upfront and then there's also a [TS]

  kind of motivating plot thread that [TS]

  begins with some some deaths of people [TS]

  and people being framed potentially for [TS]

  murder [TS]

  so there's a mystery at its heart which [TS]

  actually remind reminded me a little bit [TS]

  of watchmen a little bit in that there's [TS]

  there's a rich world but there's also [TS]

  kind of a motivating did detective plot [TS]

  essentially at the center of it which i [TS]

  think is kind of interesting before we [TS]

  get into the plot though and blow the [TS]

  spoiler horn I wanted to see if any of [TS]

  you had some some kind of a big thoughts [TS]

  about what what this what this this [TS]

  story is and and what makes it [TS]

  interesting [TS]

  I will be honest and say up front that [TS]

  one of the things that sort of kept me [TS]

  going [TS]

  reading this was actually looking at the [TS]

  pretty pretty art and usually it's the [TS]

  other way for me usually it's the story [TS]

  that grabs me and sometimes the arts [TS]

  great and sometimes I sort of grit my [TS]

  teeth because I'm not enjoying the art [TS]

  but keep going because the story and [TS]

  this time it was a bit the opposite i [TS]

  felt like i was having to juggle a whole [TS]

  lot of characters all of a sudden but [TS]

  they were very pretty to look at so I [TS]

  kept reading agree with that and it's [TS]

  gorgeous i read it on my iPad so I [TS]

  didn't have to deal with like pesky paid [TS]

  wines in the way and and it's just like [TS]

  I found myself just stopping and staring [TS]

  at some of some of the the pages like [TS]

  the full pages because they were just [TS]

  gorgeous and so artfully done like I'm [TS]

  one of the earlier pages is kind of our [TS]

  our main character in an audience [TS]

  i'm in a performer onstage and trying [TS]

  not to be spoilery hand and just the way [TS]

  that they Illustrated that like you [TS]

  could see like you could see her but it [TS]

  wasn't like they put a spotlight on her [TS]

  and it was just beautiful beautiful art [TS]

  I had to read it a couple of times [TS]

  because i was really confused i had and [TS]

  as with most things with the [TS]

  incomparable I just kind of dive and I'm [TS]

  like yeah I'll do that and they came to [TS]

  dive in and do it and I don't have any [TS]

  expectations going in so I I didn't know [TS]

  what the pretext was they didn't know [TS]

  hey I had no knowledge and so it's like [TS]

  I have no idea what's happening and so I [TS]

  don't know if you're one of those [TS]

  readers and you're like this is really i [TS]

  have no clue go through and read it [TS]

  again because it's worth it a second and [TS]

  third time and and there's a little bit [TS]

  at the end so i bought mine on [TS]

  comixology and so they have kind of that [TS]

  that back material and they included [TS]

  kind of their promotional materials [TS]

  which which I could have used at the [TS]

  front of the book and think I would have [TS]

  been on board faster so if you've got [TS]

  like the first volume and go read the [TS]

  back of the book in circle around again [TS]

  because I found that really helpful [TS]

  after I found it [TS]

  yeah similarly i actually went hunting [TS]

  online this afternoon and evening [TS]

  looking for annotations like no like [TS]

  mice and men experience was I love [TS]

  Sandman but once i found annotations [TS]

  that explain the things i didn't get I [TS]

  loved it even more [TS]

  yeah so we're looking unfortunately [TS]

  there's not no unified nobody's doing [TS]

  like a really thrown unified annotation [TS]

  jetta found a couple of tumblers that [TS]

  have done some of the issues and that [TS]

  helped because especially references to [TS]

  the London geography this is set in [TS]

  England there were some things that I [TS]

  didn't pick up on just because I've [TS]

  never been there yet [TS]

  I was I was I was looking for that too i [TS]

  remember reading Alan Moore's League of [TS]

  Extraordinary Gentlemen and there's this [TS]

  website [TS]

  has like the undressing yes like panel [TS]

  by panel level like autopsy of what's in [TS]

  there and I was looking for that for [TS]

  this [TS]

  there's also one for jet for Kingdom [TS]

  Come that is meticulous panel by panel [TS]

  yeah this is gonna watch I 12 you and me [TS]

  from hell that that demands the [TS]

  annotations practically and I have to [TS]

  admit like Shannon like the first their [TS]

  first time I read through this i bought [TS]

  the trade the paper trades because I i [TS]

  do like being able to stick my thumb at [TS]

  like one part of the book and foot [TS]

  forward and flip backwards which is what [TS]

  i found myself doing a lot with the [TS]

  title pages that have that the title [TS]

  pages have like the little love you know [TS]

  the circles and circles that resembles [TS]

  my little circles up and I found myself [TS]

  flipping back and forth to figure out [TS]

  okay this is what symbol is this what's [TS]

  this [TS]

  I'm trying to match up with characters [TS]

  and anyway my mother and I pulled out my [TS]

  phone and began googling for annotations [TS]

  and Tumblr posts and things like that [TS]

  because it's so it's so deep that way [TS]

  on my second read through I i was [TS]

  reading picture the graphic the trades [TS]

  and I had my phone with Wikipedia open [TS]

  to look up like all the good God names [TS]

  because I was like there's clearly stuff [TS]

  in here that maybe I'm supposed to get [TS]

  that like where these characters in are [TS]

  getting and I am NOT getting and i'm so [TS]

  glad you brought up Sandman too because [TS]

  it was like that like the first time you [TS]

  read Sandman you can read it by itself [TS]

  like this is pretty cool and then you go [TS]

  back and you read it with annotations or [TS]

  with knowledge of all the characters [TS]

  he's bringing in the mythology that he's [TS]

  begun to reference even casually and [TS]

  throw away and I like what stance and [TS]

  men like oh my god the depth and the [TS]

  thought that went into that and this has [TS]

  a really similar field because as it as [TS]

  you're going through the beautiful [TS]

  beautiful art to see you know the [TS]

  character they've chosen to make look [TS]

  like Rihanna Rihanna the one that [TS]

  they've chosen to make a David Bowie [TS]

  prestige the one they've chosen as a [TS]

  Tory a MOS knock off you know and and [TS]

  you figure okay this all the baggage [TS]

  that those pop stars bring into it and [TS]

  then you combine it with the daddies are [TS]

  supposed to represent and it's just so [TS]

  smart and uh huh yeah that's a good word [TS]

  now to be there [TS]

  I think they give us just enough in the [TS]

  story without annotations I mean you get [TS]

  just enough to at least you can sort of [TS]

  place what's going on and they try to [TS]

  make the connections for you as far as [TS]

  like you know certain deities [TS]

  representing certain concepts that are [TS]

  important to the mystery for example but [TS]

  yeah if we have you read it through the [TS]

  first time and then go back the second [TS]

  time with some kind of support some kind [TS]

  of research it really it really does [TS]

  make it a lot better this book series [TS]

  also strikes me as sort of the other [TS]

  side of the coin to the other series [TS]

  that mckelvey and and killing have done [TS]

  which is phonogram and the premise [TS]

  behind that series is that there are a [TS]

  group of formerly young people and [TS]

  brands a formal young people because [TS]

  they were young during the Britpop [TS]

  explosion of the nineties and during [TS]

  that period they discovered that they [TS]

  were photo mancers I people who could [TS]

  use magic if they tapped into music in a [TS]

  very specific way and there's and the [TS]

  phonogram talks about music as a way of [TS]

  channeling the divine in changing [TS]

  reality and this series is about fandom [TS]

  as a way of being changed by the divine [TS]

  and then going out and changing reality [TS]

  around you and I thought okay there [TS]

  there minding the same time attic [TS]

  territory they're just coming out from a [TS]

  completely different angle and so it's [TS]

  kind of enjoyable to read the series [TS]

  back to back to to take a look at the [TS]

  different approaches and see what's the [TS]

  same which is that the creators of this [TS]

  unshakable conviction that music is is [TS]

  really a force above and beyond [TS]

  it may be created or channel by humans [TS]

  but they seem to regard music is [TS]

  something that like exists its own [TS]

  separate almost magical entity and then [TS]

  they take the reactions that people have [TS]

  to music very very seriously like they [TS]

  really get the idea of what it means to [TS]

  lose yourself in a creative work and to [TS]

  find yourself in the process of losing [TS]

  yourself and and I really enjoy that [TS]

  about this both this book and phonogram [TS]

  let's take a brief break to talk about [TS]

  something that's not in the pantheon [TS]

  although maybe it's in my personal [TS]

  pantheon because I sleep on it every [TS]

  night it's casper mattresses yes you [TS]

  guessed it [TS]

  casper mattresses are obsessively [TS]

  engineered american-made mattresses [TS]

  they're available shockingly fair price [TS]

  and now you can get fifty dollars off [TS]

  any mattress purchase by going to Casper [TS]

  calm / smell and using code smell that [TS]

  check out we all spend about a third of [TS]

  our lives sleeping some a little bit [TS]

  less some little bit more but really you [TS]

  would go insane if you didn't sleep so [TS]

  let's make sure you sleep on a good [TS]

  mattress so that you feel refreshed and [TS]

  active in the morning [TS]

  Casper has two different technologies [TS]

  that they put together for better nights [TS]

  and brighter days there's a latex foam [TS]

  and memory foam latex foam gives it a [TS]

  really pleasant feeling on the top and a [TS]

  memory foam you've got support [TS]

  underneath they call it just the right [TS]

  thing just the right balance my old bed [TS]

  felt like a trampoline I'd sit on a [TS]

  macat would be ejected from the other [TS]

  side of the bed this new bed it is [TS]

  really nice i've been using it for more [TS]

  than a year [TS]

  it's a Casper mattress and it is really [TS]

  great [TS]

  they've got a risk-free trial and return [TS]

  policy so if you don't like it I can't [TS]

  imagine that but if you don't like it [TS]

  you basically say hey Casper take this [TS]

  away and they give you your money back [TS]

  and you can do that not just for a week [TS]

  or a month but for up to a hundred days [TS]

  and it comes to you in a box it's [TS]

  delivered straight to your door from [TS]

  from I think it's ups doesn't really [TS]

  matter a partial service delivery person [TS]

  will bring it to your door you open it [TS]

  up it expands to its full size and if [TS]

  you don't like it you can send it back [TS]

  they will take it away at a store you [TS]

  might lay down for a minute or two and a [TS]

  salesperson will come over and say [TS]

  here's a sucker [TS]

  I mean hello sir how can I help you and [TS]

  and/or hello ma'am how can I help you [TS]

  and regardless you are laying there [TS]

  thinking is this comfortable i have no [TS]

  idea [TS]

  can I lay here for eight hours no well [TS]

  I'll give it a try it's not fun [TS]

  what I'm saying is I hate going to [TS]

  mattress stores the Casper you get to [TS]

  sleep on it literally sleep on it five [TS]

  hundred dollars for a twin up to 9 50 [TS]

  for a king compared to industry averages [TS]

  that's actually an outstanding price [TS]

  point and you can get fifty dollars [TS]

  toward any mattress purchase by going to [TS]

  Casper calm / smell and using code smell [TS]

  at checkout terms and conditions apply [TS]

  thank you to catch her for sponsoring [TS]

  being comfortable [TS]

  well there's a lot here we should [TS]

  probably blow the spoiler horn and get [TS]

  into it in more detail gonna we're gonna [TS]

  we're going to do that right now [TS]

  spoiler horn probably a reference in [TS]

  some way to David Bowie because it isn't [TS]

  isn't everything Lucifer is definitely [TS]

  the thin white duke David Bowie and I [TS]

  read after David Bowie died i read an [TS]

  interview where they said that they at [TS]

  one point considered having all 12 [TS]

  members of the Pantheon be different [TS]

  aspects of David Bowie because they said [TS]

  they could totally have done it [TS]

  wow it's they went another way but [TS]

  Lucifer is definitely David Bowie so so [TS]

  yeah this is funny that you mentioned [TS]

  the annotations and all that because [TS]

  this is this is the first book in a [TS]

  while where I felt like I was reminded [TS]

  of when i read read watchmen and I know [TS]

  that that is it's almost tired to have [TS]

  that be a touchdown but that was the [TS]

  first time I really read a comic and [TS]

  felt like I need to take notes and I [TS]

  wanted footnotes and I I knew that there [TS]

  were so many layers and that also I i [TS]

  was intrigued by the fact that there was [TS]

  a and continue telling there was a plot [TS]

  that was going to drag me through the [TS]

  story and it might not even be the point [TS]

  of the story as much as it is and so [TS]

  much work of fiction as the you know if [TS]

  the thing to drag drag me through from [TS]

  the beginning to the end and so in this [TS]

  case ya in this case we get the the [TS]

  death of the the judge when Lucifer [TS]

  snaps fingers and she's blame for it and [TS]

  says she didn't do it and it's a godly [TS]

  act so some other one of the gods must [TS]

  have done it and she's put in jail and [TS]

  it it leads to it at a chain of [TS]

  unfortunate events and creates this [TS]

  mystery i'm and and also there's a [TS]

  mystery of who the rest of the members [TS]

  of the Pantheon are some of them died [TS]

  some of them haven't yet been revealed [TS]

  and so there's that mystery happening to [TS]

  my even like that there's like the [TS]

  little mysteries about like we know that [TS]

  this is this this member of the Pantheon [TS]

  is this God but which version of that [TS]

  God is right ball followed the question [TS]

  which ball ball which one are you and [TS]

  he's like i identify with this one [TS]

  enough that wide [TS]

  maybe Bob who is sort of Kanye West's [TS]

  kind of as a path to say except except [TS]

  for David Bowie all the other pop music [TS]

  references are completely lost on me [TS]

  well well this Prince there's the one [TS]

  who looks exactly like prince who is [TS]

  yeah highness [TS]

  yeah okay yeah we um the wooden [TS]

  character is sort of the doctor okay [TS]

  yeah he's one of the Deaf bugs and I've [TS]

  read that the Emirati was actually sort [TS]

  of lawrence somewhere between florence [TS]

  welch and Stevie Nicks [TS]

  oh so you have a good point there I i [TS]

  had identified her as a Tori Amos sort [TS]

  of character because of the great hair [TS]

  the long red hair and the the abandoned [TS]

  with what she finds herself around on [TS]

  stage but I think Stevie Nicks is [TS]

  another although personally I feel like [TS]

  Stevie Nicks should be out of the [TS]

  Pantheon because she's a law unto [TS]

  herself [TS]

  ok but yeah but ok there were 31 more [TS]

  the rave dude the one who has my list [TS]

  yes Dionysus who has been alone inside [TS]

  his head for is emo be lets say yes [TS]

  thanks hehe look very young mobile yeah [TS]

  yeah that's looking at school care using [TS]

  up one of the joys and this is is is [TS]

  seeing these gods put in in these are [TS]

  putting putting a modern context and [TS]

  also the idea that if you had gods in [TS]

  the modern world they would be stars [TS]

  like literally there's a convention [TS]

  celebrating you and everything that [TS]

  they're stars the fandemonium that the [TS]

  fancy on right in San involved to that [TS]

  and so that's so great that you get this [TS]

  idea that if God's God's in a modern [TS]

  context for rock stars so i guess the [TS]

  reverse would be true that we treat rock [TS]

  stars like gods but here it's literally [TS]

  the gods are wrong stars enjoy that the [TS]

  Norns our golf like they're even work [TS]

  often the Morrigan yes yes with ragnarok [TS]

  roc a because it's a rock concert you [TS]

  see huh [TS]

  it's it's such it's such a pretty booked [TS]

  like you said it reminds me almost of [TS]

  the needle paintings of the nineteen [TS]

  eighties and one of those on the cup and [TS]

  why does it was a cover for for real [TS]

  which was one of the first albums i [TS]

  bought with my own money so i have that [TS]

  inextricable music artists och [TS]

  it's so smart um I love the the multiple [TS]

  mysteries that are unfolding around it [TS]

  I i wish that they would kind of explain [TS]

  more about the mechanisms of fandom like [TS]

  how do these kids keep finding these [TS]

  music happenings are you know is it [TS]

  through text is it through through [TS]

  bulletin boards it through word-of-mouth [TS]

  like there's like an undercurrent of [TS]

  social media technology happening but [TS]

  it's not really as much to the forefront [TS]

  as it could be [TS]

  yeah and that's that's a good point so [TS]

  what do we think about the SR main [TS]

  character is not one of the is not one [TS]

  of the gods or is she [TS]

  and it is is Laura she's she's a fan of [TS]

  the Pantheon and she becomes kind of [TS]

  swept up in the inner workings of the [TS]

  Pantheon she kinda guessed she used to [TS]

  be like a b-list celebrity in the yeah [TS]

  she's sort of like Kim Kardashian in the [TS]

  paris hilton day yeah yeah yeah so she [TS]

  she gets swept up into this and [TS]

  befriends Lucifer which is important [TS]

  because then when when Lucy is accused [TS]

  of blowing up the the judges head and [TS]

  all of that she becomes a key witness [TS]

  essentially 22 Lucifer's escape and then [TS]

  there's the suggestion that Lucifer sort [TS]

  of left something behind for her after [TS]

  we did we didn't mention there's uh what [TS]

  is a non k who is the who is sort of [TS]

  like the old she liked the Krone who is [TS]

  also like the controller of [TS]

  and-and-and-and-and watcher for the [TS]

  college thing into being right she calls [TS]

  them into being and then the way this [TS]

  series begins in the very first few [TS]

  panels of the very first issue use it [TS]

  well actually the very first time for a [TS]

  few first issue but like right beginning [TS]

  there's that the whole scene where the [TS]

  incarnations from the 1920s the Jazz Age [TS]

  yeah which is another moment of cultural [TS]

  people were there are there's this table [TS]

  there are eight schools one of which is [TS]

  in a dreadful state which is just a very [TS]

  violent data [TS]

  yeah and then there are four of them [TS]

  left and i found myself trying to figure [TS]

  out like who was who because we know [TS]

  that one of them was I'm they even give [TS]

  you a circle for the the [TS]

  with different icons then we get in the [TS]

  modern yawns like we know one of them is [TS]

  Minerva just because the ike the out [TS]

  like on a similar and one of them is [TS]

  Susanoo who is you know Japanese God who [TS]

  by the way was also featured in Sandman [TS]

  but like we don't get we don't get the [TS]

  neat one-to-one match up and I found [TS]

  myself wondering why these for how did [TS]

  she get them in one place and how does [TS]

  she manage to coerce them into killing [TS]

  themselves and so when you start with [TS]

  something like that and then you move to [TS]

  end these are pop stars with built-in [TS]

  expiration dates it gets like I love a [TS]

  good mr. like that because i just wanna [TS]

  find out why [TS]

  like how does she accept this whole what [TS]

  why do they agree to this what happens [TS]

  if a God fights back do you ever find [TS]

  out right because when we see the gods [TS]

  from the twenties the last thing they do [TS]

  is the three surviving member snap their [TS]

  fingers in their building there in blows [TS]

  up so the implication there is that [TS]

  their wings you're not going to live [TS]

  past two years the the you could read [TS]

  that as being you know they will expire [TS]

  naturally or something but that's not [TS]

  what we see we see them a lot of them [TS]

  are already dead and then the last three [TS]

  basically blow themselves up [TS]

  yeah for that was for that was more than [TS]

  12 tonight for ya [TS]

  what 21 to 34 so that you've got the [TS]

  fourth they've got the 44 beat authority [TS]

  starting with sort of procedures rock [TS]

  and roll when you think about it you [TS]

  know Dionysus Israel later [TS]

  yeah and I don't know how accurate this [TS]

  is this was on wikia some peeps and [TS]

  somebody started constructing wicked in [TS]

  divine annotations there they identified [TS]

  the african-american in the twenties as [TS]

  another ball and then the white-faced [TS]

  girl with the mask is another otsuka the [TS]

  makeup is a bit similar so we're Lord so [TS]

  we're looking at because the demand [TS]

  Susanoo based on the a light so parents [TS]

  apparently your summer reruns and then [TS]

  there's sometimes no one's get in the [TS]

  mix and so yes that the the flapper is [TS]

  Minerva and it's worth noting that in [TS]

  this incarnation this Minerva is dressed [TS]

  like one of the Beatles and she's like [TS]

  12 years old also worth mentioning is [TS]

  that Lucifer which is not Lucifer was [TS]

  actually and eleanor rigby yeah yeah [TS]

  because her parents were major beatles [TS]

  fans [TS]

  yeah yeah they're they're so I mean I i [TS]

  mentioned an Aikido is too [TS]

  say that in the end I what happens is [TS]

  that Laura is left with this sort of [TS]

  like trace of Lucifer and wants to know [TS]

  what happened to Lucifer because a [TS]

  non-key catches up with her after she's [TS]

  broken out of jail [TS]

  and-and-and-and blows her head off and [TS]

  so the mystery suddenly transforms into [TS]

  not who set up Lucifer but really like [TS]

  who like setup Lucifer and led to her [TS]

  death and then that since Laura on this [TS]

  kind of interesting journey it's it's [TS]

  like a I don't know how to describe it i [TS]

  think there's a word for it in fiction [TS]

  but it is she's taking a journey it's a [TS]

  little bit like it's a little bit like [TS]

  almost like the odyssey or something [TS]

  like candied where she is she's kind of [TS]

  traveling through the circles of these [TS]

  bizarre things that are happening [TS]

  culturally around all these different [TS]

  gods as she is trying to gather [TS]

  information about what's going on which [TS]

  i think is a really cool way to [TS]

  introduce us because we're throwing in [TS]

  without much of a map and then and then [TS]

  she does lead us through she gets in [TS]

  this very special position where she [TS]

  gets access than a normal person [TS]

  wouldn't and then starts to learn about [TS]

  what the is going on with the Pantheon [TS]

  and what's interesting about the whole [TS]

  access thing is she also has a frenemy i [TS]

  guess you'd say Cassandra who's the jerk [TS]

  who's the journalist the skeptical [TS]

  journalist names who's sort of angry [TS]

  about the access that fans get compared [TS]

  to journalists and has a real chip on [TS]

  her shoulder until Medicaid decides to [TS]

  20 your oh you're a loser and earlier or [TS]

  murder because I i know the D is [TS]

  actually brown stuff from Wales English [TS]

  anyway she's one of the Norns and her to [TS]

  cameraman get turned camera ladies get [TS]

  turned into the other Norns and part of [TS]

  me is wondering if comic con que can [TS]

  strategically deploy and defended [TS]

  deployed divinity where it suits her [TS]

  long her her long-term needs [TS]

  yeah that's kind of opened a question I [TS]

  think I don't know if later episode [TS]

  later issues will clarify that because [TS]

  on the one hand it does feel like she's [TS]

  you know able to sort of pick and choose [TS]

  we have the bit where Mary Marion [TS]

  becomes the more again and then is like [TS]

  an Cameron come can Cameron come to and [TS]

  wrong [TS]

  this bathroom it but on the other hand [TS]

  what she says to Cassandra sort of [TS]

  implies that she's got to like sort of [TS]

  hunt and discover them right [TS]

  mm what I'm wondering about is if these [TS]

  divinities come through or she's like [TS]

  okay you have a combination of traits [TS]

  that that can-can are our divinity [TS]

  compatible and here you go because the [TS]

  event that ends the second book and I [TS]

  realize we've done the spoiler horn but [TS]

  the event that is the second book with [TS]

  first she I'm so here you are in she [TS]

  basically indulges in a wish fulfillment [TS]

  exercise and then a murder and I thought [TS]

  to myself did you do that to disarm this [TS]

  person or this divinity on it [TS]

  her actions are very opaque and very [TS]

  strategic [TS]

  yeah it puts a lot of especially because [TS]

  she's kind of one of the like sources [TS]

  for a lot of like the rules of the world [TS]

  yeah and then those actions in that last [TS]

  issue it's like well how much of what we [TS]

  were told you I still a hundred percent [TS]

  right believe right yeah i mentioned [TS]

  this on when i mentioned i was reading [TS]

  this in our last comic book club that I [TS]

  feel like the ending of of the second [TS]

  trade is a brilliant cliffhanger because [TS]

  in those last few pages what happens the [TS]

  entire premise is called into question [TS]

  about how that happens you did this this [TS]

  character who have been sort of [TS]

  introduced to suggest you know she's [TS]

  kind of creepy but she sort of like has [TS]

  a lot of knowledge she drops enough [TS]

  knowledge for you to make you question [TS]

  exactly what her role is here and your [TS]

  main character is who we've established [TS]

  is not actually one of the Pantheon is [TS]

  told [TS]

  oh no you actually are the 13th member [TS]

  of the Pantheon and then is murdered so [TS]

  you've lost use the main character the [TS]

  entire premises questioned and that's [TS]

  the end of the second trade it's a it's [TS]

  shot great ending but it's certainly a [TS]

  great cliffhanger [TS]

  I also son is really slice of version of [TS]

  the Mary Sue trope as it were because [TS]

  you have a fan who is so involved and [TS]

  yeah this world is such wish fulfillment [TS]

  and then when they finally do get to [TS]

  become the minute they remember their [TS]

  fandom boom they're killed by the [TS]

  creator and I was funny because [TS]

  chip-chip warned me he actually read [TS]

  this before I did [TS]

  and he had it on his iPad and is not [TS]

  shining ipad pro and he told me before i [TS]

  started reading okay you cannot go [TS]

  george RR martin on this and throw the [TS]

  ipad against the wall when Josh don't [TS]

  know you've been and to be frank I [TS]

  didn't feel like doing that i have [TS]

  speculations since the chosen goddess [TS]

  identity for laura is Persephone and 470 [TS]

  sort of has a cycle thing going on so [TS]

  you know I I didn't immediately feel the [TS]

  same way as I did with Martin when it [TS]

  actually didn't have to deal with Martin [TS]

  killing off characters even though i [TS]

  love how he will do that kind of thing [TS]

  it was because the second shoe that the [TS]

  first she was like in the first pages of [TS]

  the first book and it took three books [TS]

  to get to the second shoe and that's too [TS]

  long but that's totally off topic [TS]

  sorry mo but yeah but I was not as upset [TS]

  as chip expected me to be reading that [TS]

  and there are things that I really like [TS]

  and things that are important to me [TS]

  seemed to be important to you know the [TS]

  team like a like I'm glad I mean I would [TS]

  have been kinda cool to see all of the [TS]

  Gods is different iterations of bowie [TS]

  but I'm glad that they went another way [TS]

  and that they've got you know different [TS]

  genders and different races and [TS]

  different you know they've got a a gay [TS]

  character there's a transgender [TS]

  character like and it's not a big deal [TS]

  like when Cassandra is revealed to be [TS]

  trans it's just like and you know Lucy's [TS]

  like oh I said this thing to hurt you [TS]

  and she's like it did and that's like [TS]

  it's not about my god and I really [TS]

  really loved that [TS]

  yeah that's a real big strength to the [TS]

  books in my opinion and my trans friends [TS]

  love it and i absolutely love it so it's [TS]

  not and I feel confident and like okay [TS]

  this is representation done right and so [TS]

  that can do it gives me more motivation [TS]

  to continue reading to you know it's um [TS]

  I i think it's hot it's a hard read i [TS]

  would six against for somebody for [TS]

  somebody i was thinking about you while [TS]

  I was reading it because because moline [TS]

  because as a relatively new comics [TS]

  reader it is dense it is that's why I [TS]

  kept coming back to watch men is it was [TS]

  the same thing where I feel like every [TS]

  time I read it i'm noticing something [TS]

  different and that's definitely how it [TS]

  was the first [TS]

  billion times i read watchmen where [TS]

  there's what's the other the words on [TS]

  the page and then there's the art and [TS]

  then there's the things that are [TS]

  embedded in the art and they actually [TS]

  mean something they're not just there to [TS]

  make a pretty background they are things [TS]

  that will take you to interesting [TS]

  shadings of meaning of the story if you [TS]

  were looking at them so it really it [TS]

  survives multiple readings and in fact [TS]

  almost demands multiple readings and but [TS]

  if that does make it dents and it isn't [TS]

  it isn't very welcoming [TS]

  i would say you suit sort of have to go [TS]

  with it and hope hope to catch up later [TS]

  and admitting that I think it attaches [TS]

  to the plot to where Laura until she [TS]

  kind of falls all the way in and get at [TS]

  and you get your bearings a little bit [TS]

  which of course is swept away from you [TS]

  at the end of volume to it you know you [TS]

  are you are lost in the world because [TS]

  she doesn't have enough information and [TS]

  she's really are members into our [TS]

  representative in this world so it's a [TS]

  tough night I mean it's it is [TS]

  challenging and dense you know in a way [TS]

  that I'm not a lot of comics that ivory [TS]

  actually I feel like I hadn't been kind [TS]

  of challenge this way by a comment on a [TS]

  long time I was kind of having a [TS]

  reminders of when I used to reach a ton [TS]

  of vertigo stuff and it really helped [TS]

  like that but matically and density [TS]

  I you know one of my favorite comics is [TS]

  a hundred bullets and every time a new [TS]

  volume would come out i would reread all [TS]

  the previous volume again in preparation [TS]

  for reading it so like I've read volume [TS]

  one of a hundred bullets more than 13 [TS]

  times because they're 13 right and like [TS]

  that's a comic I love it's not a comic I [TS]

  recommend to a lot of people because i [TS]

  don't think it has broad appeal but it's [TS]

  a super-dense um but I mean it's nice to [TS]

  be challenged by but it was also like [TS]

  this is this is an unfamiliar feeling [TS]

  like I don't know if I dislike this but [TS]

  this is you know this isn't something [TS]

  comics have really pushed on me in a [TS]

  while you're right that this is a very [TS]

  vertical feeling read though because it [TS]

  is it celebrates it celebrates the [TS]

  culture that is not necessarily [TS]

  mainstream and that culture has its own [TS]

  rules and its own rewards and it makes [TS]

  the argument that people who are called [TS]

  people who choose that culture are still [TS]

  inherently worthy of you no interest in [TS]

  love and respect and all those other [TS]

  things as well they're not just people [TS]

  who look weird have strange interest [TS]

  really like and like I mean in some ways [TS]

  it's it like there's some stuff like [TS]

  going back likes that's in that Sandman [TS]

  didn't stories that was kind of like [TS]

  revolutionary this time that feels like [TS]

  you know some of it is great and it [TS]

  doesn't still holds up and some of it is [TS]

  like kind of very dated in terms of like [TS]

  the society in terms of when it was [TS]

  written so it's nice to see something [TS]

  you know that's that's taking on some of [TS]

  those those attitudes that you know in a [TS]

  more modern way right and my style for [TS]

  reading comic books because I'm a I'm a [TS]

  reader first and foremost rate is I go [TS]

  through and I read the words and then I [TS]

  go through a second time and I i read [TS]

  the words and look at the art and I'm [TS]

  not a very patient reader just so i [TS]

  think that was i I actually don't know [TS]

  how much the art helps in like the the [TS]

  conceptual things and as you're going [TS]

  along but and it's I mean it does [TS]

  definitely add depth to the story and [TS]

  but yeah i was i was confused a lot that [TS]

  yes i have really make their points when [TS]

  I was confused and had to reread a [TS]

  couple of pages [TS]

  yeah yeah and i think i'm still confused [TS]

  yeah together certainly things that [TS]

  still need to be answered together and I [TS]

  think you know some of that I think [TS]

  you're supposed to be confused some of [TS]

  it I don't know but I mean depends on a [TS]

  stick the landing right yeah yeah we [TS]

  should say that they they have said that [TS]

  this is there is a story the this is [TS]

  closed-ended somewhere between 30 and 60 [TS]

  issues you know I think that's not a [TS]

  professional comics professionals [TS]

  admitting that the story can sometimes [TS]

  get away from you a little bit mob or it [TS]

  becomes unprofitable one of those are [TS]

  approaching it with the stress in ski [TS]

  method yeah exactly right we got no [TS]

  wheels will spread our the middle and an [TS]

  end or contracting as nice as we go [TS]

  Oh God releases thinking of the end of [TS]

  terrace [TS]

  oh so what people think of the of the [TS]

  i'm going to ask about the sex and i'm [TS]

  going to ask about the gore so let's [TS]

  start with the gore what what people [TS]

  feel about the heads exploding and the [TS]

  neck with without a head on it and on [TS]

  the cover of the last issue of vol.2 too [TS]

  much [TS]

  not part of that part of the story I I [TS]

  thought it was I noticed that it was [TS]

  kind of unflinching and its depiction of [TS]

  people getting stuff blown-up [TS]

  unflinching yes but this this is where I [TS]

  think Mack all these art helps it at [TS]

  least personally for me [TS]

  um I did not think it was nearly as gory [TS]

  as it genuinely was because the art is [TS]

  so clean [TS]

  the art is so smooth it did not it did [TS]

  not bother me as much as it might have [TS]

  say somebody actually filming this or [TS]

  another person style of art might do [TS]

  um so yeah that the gore did not bother [TS]

  me nearly as much as it could have [TS]

  yeah I I kind of agree i we have been [TS]

  watching the clone wars and they're [TS]

  there have been things that have [TS]

  bothered me more in the Clone Wars then [TS]

  like seeing someone's head explode and [TS]

  the panel where the judges had exploded [TS]

  as a little like that yeah I was behind [TS]

  I'm like I maybe could have done without [TS]

  that but it's not a realistic thing so [TS]

  it's my that it's its stylized [TS]

  yeah if it were more like like The [TS]

  Walking Dead sometimes when i read i [TS]

  have trouble looking at some of those [TS]

  panels and unfortunately it's not in [TS]

  color so that helps a lot [TS]

  I had stopped reading the walking dead [TS]

  because of the way they depicted a lot [TS]

  of the stuff we actually yeah I mean [TS]

  it'sit's graphic and it's gritty I'm [TS]

  trying to remember now i can't remember [TS]

  the name of the series that's American [TS]

  vampire you been stealing your whining [TS]

  love this story but some of the art I [TS]

  was just like who don't miss the the [TS]

  walking dead i would i would say was [TS]

  when it's ugly it's like it when it's [TS]

  was graphic it's ugly and women in the [TS]

  divine is not something I would ever [TS]

  call ugly even when it's wrong laughing [TS]

  it's sort of beautifully graphic but it [TS]

  still can be gross and unpleasant and [TS]

  they're definitely panels in this that I [TS]

  that I find kind of yucky but that [TS]

  doesn't mean that I don't think that [TS]

  they're beautifully rendered in a way [TS]

  that that the walking dead you know it [TS]

  was gross stuff render dug in an ugly [TS]

  way I thought a lot of the time now i [TS]

  should add that to my all-time favorite [TS]

  series [TS]

  are the authority and preacher oh so my [TS]

  so my tolerance for how much gore is [TS]

  acceptable in a comic book me a little [TS]

  maybe a little bit hot wire for the rest [TS]

  of this but um I think in the context of [TS]

  this book the gore is shocking because [TS]

  I'm the art is so beautiful and this is [TS]

  not a particularly gritty world you know [TS]

  I mean even when you're in Subway's it [TS]

  is still like you're focusing on how [TS]

  beautifully composed each panel is and [TS]

  how like there's a lot of that there [TS]

  they do a lot of visual imagery that [TS]

  weighs on some very romantic notions of [TS]

  what it's like to be in a train station [TS]

  what it's like to be in a darkened and [TS]

  empty public space and so because it's [TS]

  so beautiful and so meticulously [TS]

  composed and so romantic that it's feels [TS]

  jarring when you do see like a headless [TS]

  stuff neck because like oh I don't [TS]

  recall that in any of the millions of [TS]

  rock videos i mean line on MTV or any of [TS]

  the tumblers I follow or anything like [TS]

  that just like oh you know whereas like [TS]

  if I saw a shot like this authority I'd [TS]

  be like well Frank Quitely is going easy [TS]

  on us this month so that's our what [TS]

  about the what about this sort of like a [TS]

  not just sex but but all of the section [TS]

  hedonism this is about God's and a [TS]

  Pantheon and famously you know I mean we [TS]

  we have Dionysus in here for pete's sake [TS]

  right with their there so I'm curious i [TS]

  really i also want to mention in [TS]

  particular the rave issue which is is [TS]

  all bright colors and laura gets really [TS]

  kind of candy car caught up in it and [TS]

  it's terrifying ultimately but but a [TS]

  very interesting in a in a different way [TS]

  there's also a scene that we see very [TS]

  briefly of a of an orgy [TS]

  that's being put on by one of the Gods [TS]

  to so i'm just i'm curious what people [TS]

  what people think about how that stuff [TS]

  is portrayed in this if you've got any [TS]

  thoughts about that i partly because I [TS]

  think so early [TS]

  on its kind of established that one of [TS]

  the things that these reincarnated gods [TS]

  are doing is having all the sex all the [TS]

  time that that it didn't surprise me and [TS]

  therefore I was just I kept reading I [TS]

  don't remember being phased by by it [TS]

  terribly much mean they're teenagers [TS]

  with two years to live there was sex is [TS]

  consensual and I'm a lot less bothered [TS]

  by that I was by the first by one of the [TS]

  first few instances of sex is on Sandman [TS]

  for example where it's much more [TS]

  disturbing especially the 24 hours in [TS]

  the diner episode issue [TS]

  yeah oh yeah he's like oh my god yeah [TS]

  yeah yeah I'm you know you know and and [TS]

  sex drugs and rock and roll [TS]

  yeah i mean that that's definitely the [TS]

  theme here [TS]

  no I mean I think the thing that bothers [TS]

  me more than anything else if i'm going [TS]

  to read is is the the creeping more to [TS]

  is the fact that you have a god that [TS]

  people are fighting who is a 12 year old [TS]

  child and everybody is is sort of [TS]

  ignoring the fact that she's going to be [TS]

  dead before she's 15 and interrupting [TS]

  her parents are rope making as much [TS]

  money as possible or their hundred [TS]

  dollars you get a personal blessing [TS]

  member yeah it's but I get the the her [TS]

  fellow gods are protective of her [TS]

  yeah i think there's one taking care of [TS]

  his best again [TS]

  yeah and she's aware that's the first [TS]

  thing we hear from her and she's you [TS]

  know in and as they take Laura back to [TS]

  kinda meet some of these gods when [TS]

  Lucy's in jail [TS]

  she's like I'm gonna be dead before you [TS]

  know what I'm 14 [TS]

  you don't like the first first [TS]

  introduction we get to her those are [TS]

  some of the first words out of her mouth [TS]

  yeah that's the interesting thing about [TS]

  this setup right is that the idea is [TS]

  that there are people but they're also [TS]

  gods and there's that duality there in [TS]

  the cod portion of them with their [TS]

  unclear right whether they're always [TS]

  gods and just are wide awake into it or [TS]

  whether they're there or is this more [TS]

  sinister where they are sort of chosen [TS]

  and the God essence is going to pour [TS]

  into them and print them out after two [TS]

  years the gods are immortal and they'll [TS]

  come back in 90 years but those people [TS]

  in this lion are gone and do do they [TS]

  have the ability to steal years from [TS]

  each other do they [TS]

  yeah well the that this is the thing is [TS]

  I'm so [TS]

  guys we haven't seen the phrase human [TS]

  sacrifice put into context yet because [TS]

  that's what these children effectively [TS]

  are is they're human sacrifices to this [TS]

  notion that the divinity is supposed to [TS]

  touch everybody around them and that's [TS]

  how the world gets changes people come [TS]

  away from their experience with the [TS]

  ground changed it ripples out one of the [TS]

  things we're talking about now I promise [TS]

  this is not spoiler but one of the the [TS]

  the things you're talking about with out [TS]

  whether or not these people are like the [TS]

  effect of being a god on the person like [TS]

  there's a there's an issue in the third [TS]

  trade that goes into that in [TS]

  excruciating detail and it's a beautiful [TS]

  and horrible issue help the same time [TS]

  and like I had to go right I i had to [TS]

  like put down that the book and [TS]

  decompress after reading it but it's [TS]

  like oh my god this is so smart [TS]

  let's hide it so you won't have that to [TS]

  look forward to [TS]

  i guess.i guess well we'll get there i [TS]

  wanted i want to mention i thought it [TS]

  was really interesting but the at the at [TS]

  the convention there is a panel that a [TS]

  former girlfriend of Woden is on MH and [TS]

  he walks in and basically tempts her to [TS]

  come back into his circle and is it but [TS]

  she has to admit that everything [TS]

  terrible she's saying about him is a lie [TS]

  and then he and then he makes the his [TS]

  little pink suit thing evaporate and [TS]

  walks out on her and that publicly yeah [TS]

  that's a really important is really [TS]

  interesting characters here we don't see [TS]

  his face hehe implies that he's been [TS]

  horribly horribly scarred and and can't [TS]

  be right upon and he's also the one who [TS]

  is sort of like shamelessly just as [TS]

  building a harem and wants to have sex [TS]

  with as many women as he can before he [TS]

  dies [TS]

  yeah again and plus he doesn't seem to [TS]

  be doing much in the way of performing [TS]

  he's like the Builder he's the one that [TS]

  anon k comes to when he's helped me he [TS]

  helped do things but he's not like [TS]

  front-and-center the way some of the [TS]

  others are no it's just it's an [TS]

  interesting character and he does not [TS]

  seem like a particularly pleasant person [TS]

  Ellen on any level but he is shiny and [TS]

  you know and then [TS]

  I i mean i think yeah I i think that's [TS]

  that's interesting too that he is this [TS]

  very notably interesting-looking [TS]

  character kind of more traditional comic [TS]

  booky looking than anybody else in the [TS]

  pantheon [TS]

  but he's all he's kinda awful staff from [TS]

  he's very easy that daft punk where the [TS]

  identity play as part of the mistake [TS]

  that goes with it but he's also don't [TS]

  need submit yeah everybody hates him and [TS]

  fearsome and they're fascinated by him [TS]

  yeah I dr. doom seen some more of a [TS]

  sense of humor about himself than this [TS]

  I suppose that's true it sounds very [TS]

  unpleasant but the horribly scarred and [TS]

  wearing a cool outdoor thing fits when [TS]

  you with that this this this series [TS]

  makes me wish I were more of a music [TS]

  nerd because i have a feeling if I were [TS]

  I would be just tripping out over what [TS]

  what the writers are saying about [TS]

  specific musicians with her choosing to [TS]

  depict or what God through their [TS]

  choosing to to parent channel with at [TS]

  the same time I feel like I'm missing a [TS]

  dimension of the book because I'm not [TS]

  big into either [TS]

  well I mean I like music but i'm not a [TS]

  huge music there and I don't have a lot [TS]

  of music insider lure gospel my back [TS]

  pocket and that's the one area where I [TS]

  feel like I'm missing out on a facet of [TS]

  this this experience [TS]

  mm do you think it's intentional that [TS]

  like that that all the fan group seemed [TS]

  I mean not exclusively but are primarily [TS]

  young people I wondered if that was just [TS]

  like Laura's view on things or or some [TS]

  kind of commentary there because that's [TS]

  my big question is like that we now are [TS]

  in a world where the gods come back but [TS]

  like but everybody else is still like [TS]

  going to work and stuff it's just [TS]

  college kids who are like cutting class [TS]

  they bring that out a bit with some the [TS]

  character that one of the likely 200 [TS]

  viously one of the ranking rocks yeah [TS]

  this gentleman you know being all [TS]

  cynical about yeah you kids today are [TS]

  the kids today don't understand or [TS]

  appreciate arm so you've got at least [TS]

  one character voicing that kind of thing [TS]

  and of course we know we've got a few [TS]

  adults that show up whether it's the [TS]

  police officers or firemen or the those [TS]

  sort of people you know they're trying [TS]

  to treat these kids as kids and then [TS]

  somebody you know somebody finally tell [TS]

  somebody else look the these these are [TS]

  dangerous [TS]

  these are not within your experience [TS]

  back [TS]

  off so you know even even Laura's [TS]

  parents it's like you know they're these [TS]

  like super well-meaning super supportive [TS]

  to the point where she's trying to [TS]

  repeal just to make them mad because [TS]

  they never get mad so yeah that it does [TS]

  seem extremely tightly focused on the [TS]

  youth generation and and what adults are [TS]

  there are not very helpful [TS]

  it's like a nun case the most mother [TS]

  figure that prompted that pantheon has [TS]

  because you know every time one of them [TS]

  you want every time she wakes up one of [TS]

  them I missed you [TS]

  and then when anyway I love you but [TS]

  you're gonna die no more wire hangers [TS]

  and I'm to know more [TS]

  this is this is for your own goal I i [TS]

  think i was actually thinking fan [TS]

  dynamic something Shannon said there i [TS]

  was reminded and Iago Erica's not here [TS]

  I'm gonna bring up doctor who only to [TS]

  say if you've got something like this [TS]

  where you've got people who are not the [TS]

  kids of the of the current generation [TS]

  right [TS]

  obviously there's going to be a [TS]

  subculture of the Pantheon that is a [TS]

  residue of the last appearance they made [TS]

  and although all the people from men [TS]

  have died out there is apparently enough [TS]

  knowledge about this idea you know that [TS]

  cassandra is able to research it that [TS]

  you know people who are just old enough [TS]

  of it right yeah their professors and [TS]

  research previous you know the nineteen [TS]

  twenties and earlier so but but when [TS]

  they appear [TS]

  it's like it's not for them it's like [TS]

  it's for the current generation and it's [TS]

  a new generation of fans essentially and [TS]

  i think i think that is something that [TS]

  is touched on and in this at least a [TS]

  little bit is this idea that there's a [TS]

  schism between like you know yeah it's [TS]

  great that you studied this and all that [TS]

  but these are these are the new ones and [TS]

  this is our this is our pop music that [TS]

  you know this is our fandom we you know [TS]

  we're the ones who are here and that you [TS]

  know your interests in the pantheon but [TS]

  you know you're not part of our group [TS]

  your euro notes that's the perfect [TS]

  metaphor for music I mean every every [TS]

  generation has the music that you know [TS]

  they grew up we know whether it's he [TS]

  knows that you 13 [TS]

  that's their music and later music [TS]

  business good this is a theme they mind [TS]

  and phonogram to is it something and [TS]

  this is like one of the center [TS]

  no promises a phonogram is as you get [TS]

  older your music loses the cultural [TS]

  power and the cultural currency it once [TS]

  had and you know this is why is it this [TS]

  is why I feel like you kind of have to [TS]

  both but both books like either in [TS]

  conjunction with one another or one and [TS]

  then the other is because phonogram is [TS]

  also about the magic of music and how [TS]

  it's highly specific to certain [TS]

  generations and certain societal [TS]

  conditions and I like honestly I like it [TS]

  here that its young people because um it [TS]

  goes down to people who are you know [TS]

  teens and young adults using music as a [TS]

  way to figure out who they are and to [TS]

  forge their tribal identity and to forge [TS]

  their cultural identity and be able to [TS]

  say yeah this is when i turned into a [TS]

  person with my own thoughts and likes [TS]

  and dislikes and this is the soundtrack [TS]

  that listen to while i did it and the [TS]

  idea of having a divinity that helps [TS]

  Midwife that process I think that's a [TS]

  really interesting idea and kind of wrap [TS]

  it and kind of radical i look forward to [TS]

  seeing you know that thing that I look [TS]

  forward to seeing as I'd love to see an [TS]

  issue where you have somebody who lived [TS]

  out the most of the span their lives [TS]

  between the periods of divinities like [TS]

  do they feel like they've missed out or [TS]

  are they i was just going to say [TS]

  radically different like what is what is [TS]

  their experience a person had like [TS]

  compared to somebody who is going [TS]

  through this in the UK which also raises [TS]

  from another question like why is this [TS]

  phenomenon just isolated to Britain is [TS]

  it because the the Raiders are good i [TS]

  don't think i think they make the [TS]

  reference that pops up other places [TS]

  right does yes there's us there was a [TS]

  South American one and this one is what [TS]

  is Skip sometimes that bothered me to [TS]

  that it seemed to be focused so tightly [TS]

  on not just England but London and you [TS]

  know all of these divinities or in [TS]

  London and yeah there was that one brief [TS]

  mention about South America although if [TS]

  i remember correctly that was like that [TS]

  one of the deities participating at some [TS]

  point was from South America was from [TS]

  South American mythology but not [TS]

  necessarily that that that this [TS]

  phenomenon happened there so that's [TS]

  unclear to me and when we meet and the [TS]

  one who looks like Prince and bad name's [TS]

  Donna and Donna yet so when we meet him [TS]

  and he talks about [TS]

  it's good to see you again Laura and [TS]

  she's like oh you remember me from you [TS]

  know a couple months ago a couple weeks [TS]

  ago and he's like no I remember you from [TS]

  a year ago and at the at the conference [TS]

  and she was angry instead of because one [TS]

  of the panelists at this panel she was [TS]

  attending was going on about how great [TS]

  like this generation doesn't deserve [TS]

  this and maybe this will be one of the [TS]

  times where it skips a generation or [TS]

  maybe it'll be like somewhere else and [TS]

  and they mentioned like other I think [TS]

  China and South America or something [TS]

  so there's there's an allusion to it [TS]

  being more and more widespread thing and [TS]

  not necessarily consistent thing either [TS]

  and I don't know what plays into that [TS]

  I'm coming to pass [TS]

  i also don't know how much of this is is [TS]

  is British comics culture in a way cuz [TS]

  you think about like I'm thinking about [TS]

  the authority in the premise that every [TS]

  hundred years of the beginning of the [TS]

  century the earth gives birth to [TS]

  quote-unquote century babies who [TS]

  performed the third immunity system with [TS]

  next 100 years and they are the spirits [TS]

  of the technology that will transform [TS]

  culture which is why you have Jenny [TS]

  sparks the beading 20th century and [TS]

  Jenny quantum the beginning 21st and [TS]

  this seems to be something that's pretty [TS]

  not peculiar but I've noticed a lot with [TS]

  British comic writers is they do enjoy [TS]

  cyclical themes and I don't know if it's [TS]

  because you get raised on a diet of [TS]

  Arthurian legends or what but this seems [TS]

  to be part of it to where there's this [TS]

  whole implication that it's cyclical and [TS]

  it's a culture and it's paired with [TS]

  cultural upheaval and I don't think he's [TS]

  I again I wonder if nationality plays [TS]

  into this and the reason why is the [TS]

  largest is because we're approaching it [TS]

  from a really American perspective where [TS]

  you know the answer has always been one [TS]

  in doubt find a frontier as opposed to [TS]

  if you stay on this island long enough [TS]

  Arthur will come back I've got a million [TS]

  hail from lots of British haha that it [TS]

  while they're going to also tell us but [TS]

  we just completely missed all of the [TS]

  important British references that are in [TS]

  the [TS]

  that probably we probably did yeah I [TS]

  hope you to one of the Americans they [TS]

  always wanted one of the annotations I [TS]

  saw mentioned how the building that [TS]

  hosts the convention that apparently [TS]

  there's some cable car thing now that [TS]

  you can like right across the Thames and [TS]

  it's not there and the person annotating [TS]

  it was wondering if it was because the [TS]

  the Member of Parliament behind it was a [TS]

  really big in a jerk [TS]

  so who knows that's because there are no [TS]

  gods in the actual London and so it's [TS]

  obviously a different world then yeah um [TS]

  anything more about the wicked and the [TS]

  divine i'm looking forward to reading [TS]

  vol 3 which I have not read yet because [TS]

  i was saving it until after this podcast [TS]

  so I wouldn't like violate the the end [TS]

  spoil the results in some way so I want [TS]

  is sitting on my iPad ready for me I [TS]

  gave in after least was encouraging that [TS]

  you know after I'm finished second so [TS]

  yes i-i've read the the three volumes [TS]

  and i'm probably going to dig up the [TS]

  issues that are currently out as [TS]

  Singleton's you listen to lisa lisa is a [TS]

  nibbler she doesn't think it all started [TS]

  tonight that is what we do [TS]

  yeah yeah I'm really enjoying it i don't [TS]

  know if it's a comic that I would [TS]

  recommend to a lot of people um as much [TS]

  as other comics that I won't show up to [TS]

  two people about so I like it but I [TS]

  don't know if this is one that I'm gonna [TS]

  like be running running around hitting [TS]

  people over the head with it [TS]

  yeah this one it rewards being smart it [TS]

  rewards being knowledgeable and you know [TS]

  not everybody looks at comics for that I [TS]

  thought you're gonna say something about [TS]

  me know what we said about it being [TS]

  dense and looking at footnotes and all [TS]

  that is not what i would certainly have [TS]

  I think you've got to be a well I i did [TS]

  the interesting what a lien has to say [TS]

  about this and she already touched on a [TS]

  little bit i would recommend this much [TS]

  more to somebody who is a bit more of a [TS]

  veteran comic book reader who is kind of [TS]

  a confident in their ability to dive [TS]

  into something super dense this is the [TS]

  other the ramp up on this is a is pretty [TS]

  or somebody is a music nerd and we can [TS]

  take some more references you just [TS]

  really misses vertigo because you're [TS]

  such a dude this is such a vertical book [TS]

  and I think back to all well the [TS]

  this one that I felt like I had to do [TS]

  this much homework on and I mean [TS]

  homework in a good way was the unwritten [TS]

  mi querido yeah yeah yeah yeah and [TS]

  that's another one like oh god oh god oh [TS]

  god this makes me feel really bad for [TS]

  for AP testing out of all of my [TS]

  literature requirements in college [TS]

  because I could have used another [TS]

  literature class but if you like to hear [TS]

  us talk about the unwritten by the way [TS]

  you can tune into in comfortable episode [TS]

  number two way back in awhile way that [TS]

  matters to me is that episode about like [TS]

  all of comics was that back when we [TS]

  recover yet so always about it was about [TS]

  the unwritten although i think we [TS]

  descended into discussions of vertigo in [TS]

  general at that point but yeah but it [TS]

  was very specifically the unwritten was [TS]

  what we were reading which is good [TS]

  that's a good that's a good comic I I [TS]

  like a lot of my carry stuff only image [TS]

  comics is kind of turning into the [TS]

  vertigo of this decade could be a lean [TS]

  so overall would you as a as I a newer [TS]

  comic reader would you steer people away [TS]

  from with the wicked the divine if they [TS]

  weren't confident in their comic reading [TS]

  skills or what is it ok i don't know [TS]

  honestly i I just I think it depends [TS]

  upon the person I i wish i could say [TS]

  yepper note but i think and i think that [TS]

  if it's a person who is patient and [TS]

  willing to go back and read it again and [TS]

  mr maybe is better at me than me than [TS]

  looking at the artists they go or [TS]

  whatever then you know definitely go for [TS]

  it and it's definitely not as light as [TS]

  you know getting into marvel comic books [TS]

  where you can just have to dive in and [TS]

  read and not you know like Miss Marple I [TS]

  love miss marvel I don't have to think a [TS]

  whole lot when i read the smartphone but [TS]

  but what you want yeah great unless I [TS]

  want you and you definitely can't and [TS]

  but with this it was it was just like I [TS]

  need to be in the mood for something [TS]

  more and intellectual I don't think [TS]

  that's quite the right word but you know [TS]

  just just need to sit down and think and [TS]

  be able to pay attention it's not [TS]

  something I can do half way and so I [TS]

  think that would be my criteria more [TS]

  than you know whether their veteran [TS]

  reader of comics or not or look inside [TS]

  yourself cereal part of the Pantheon and [TS]

  it's true then continue and and read the [TS]

  weaker than the divine [TS]

  any other final thoughts about about [TS]

  this this comic before we remove i'm [TS]

  going to be a ridiculous geek and say I [TS]

  now have a second favorite letter in [TS]

  comics the first is talk wine and [TS]

  clayton cows is now my second favorite [TS]

  yes he's doing great work yeah the [TS]

  different styles here and there he [TS]

  fluctuates between who's speaking and [TS]

  home and Laura's thoughts versus the [TS]

  actual narration and you can always hide [TS]

  it so i noticed i mean i usually don't [TS]

  notice lettering but you know I noticed [TS]

  Todd klein and Sandman and other works [TS]

  he's done yet and I was noticing Clayton [TS]

  cowls and his work all the way through [TS]

  I've actually put down books because I [TS]

  couldn't stand the lettering so I end [TS]

  with you on this I appreciate that i [TS]

  just wanted to talk about the art just a [TS]

  second more because there are so many [TS]

  different not the different styles but [TS]

  that coloring I think rather than the [TS]

  art is what i'm looking more like if you [TS]

  look at one of the first and one of the [TS]

  first panels in the second volume is and [TS]

  kind of like a flashback 21 when Lucy [TS]

  dies in the art style and that it's [TS]

  white with like neon colored lines and [TS]

  the art style can on those panels like [TS]

  where the judges again the judges had [TS]

  explodes [TS]

  you know it's it's different and it's [TS]

  and it's a really interesting contrast [TS]

  that I'm not seeing and maybe this is [TS]

  the vertigo style that you're talking [TS]

  about but it's a contrast that I'm not [TS]

  seeing in kind of superhero comics that [TS]

  i'm reading or you know again the what [TS]

  black-and-white walking dead you know [TS]

  volumes so I don't know it just never [TS]

  really loved it [TS]

  yeah I think you're right on that yeah [TS]

  the art that they are doing things with [TS]

  art to emphasize what's going on in the [TS]

  plot what's going on with the characters [TS]

  like we mentioned with the Dionysus [TS]

  issue of just how everything is so [TS]

  cotton candy pink um during the rave and [TS]

  everything is going on that just um [TS]

  really typifies what's what's happening [TS]

  in the story but something that you made [TS]

  reminded me of there's an issue in the [TS]

  second volume and you may be the one [TS]

  you're talking about where they actually [TS]

  deliberately made most of the story by [TS]

  recycling previous panels they actually [TS]

  like went and scavenger hunted [TS]

  through all of those previous things and [TS]

  made almost the entire issue with no [TS]

  brand new art which was really [TS]

  interesting [TS]

  yeah i just i think that it's I think [TS]

  it's great let's uh let's move on and [TS]

  talk about if there are other comics [TS]

  that you have read recently this is a [TS]

  shot in the dark but it usually gets [TS]

  usually Lisa tells us things we have to [TS]

  read [TS]

  let's just call this Lisa tells us what [TS]

  to read but if there is what what if [TS]

  there are any other comics are reading i [TS]

  would love to hear about Alisa what-what [TS]

  do what are we reading next [TS]

  what do you tell what do you really [TS]

  liking now ok i just finished unbeatable [TS]

  schoolgirl volumes 1 & 2 & comment and [TS]

  then I read them to my daughter and [TS]

  she's 5 and she now love squirrel girl [TS]

  passionately like sleeps with the sleeps [TS]

  with the the issues under her under her [TS]

  pillow and the reason i would recommend [TS]

  this to both adults and as a family [TS]

  friendly book is because the way the [TS]

  book is structured is you can read to [TS]

  kids and it's just as very cheery [TS]

  positive joyful book about being a young [TS]

  woman who loves being in college and [TS]

  loves being a superhero at the same time [TS]

  and there are all of these really clever [TS]

  extra textural jokes and then these [TS]

  footnotes at the bottom of the page that [TS]

  are just downright hysterical so it's it [TS]

  can be a fast and funny and [TS]

  non-challenging right if that's what [TS]

  you're into or it can be a little bit [TS]

  more of a deep dive if you're like like [TS]

  turned out so loved and read the [TS]

  unbeatable squirrel girl right after I [TS]

  went to see hell Caesar I when I read [TS]

  all three volumes of at brubakers on to [TS]

  our book the fade out which centers on [TS]

  the murder of a Hollywood starlet [TS]

  nineteen fifties the fixer who may [TS]

  actually not be responsible and it [TS]

  crosses over into the impact of the Red [TS]

  Scare on Hollywood and what it's like to [TS]

  be a writer who's living with PTSD in a [TS]

  time when like nobody knew what that was [TS]

  or even identified it its it's nourish [TS]

  and because I'm somebody who likes [TS]

  Raymond Chandler novels a lot i liked it [TS]

  and I thought the fit-out was a really [TS]

  nice total counter [TS]

  point to the common brothers take on the [TS]

  same period in inhale Caesar else that i [TS]

  read recently the third trade paperback [TS]

  for God hates astronauts came home and [TS]

  that is one of the most exuberantly [TS]

  stupid books and comics like it's just [TS]

  dumb it is it is it is ryan braun is [TS]

  like is is a sivaji it is a lot when it [TS]

  comes to doing really unrepentantly [TS]

  stupid hilarious stuff I hadn't come I [TS]

  mean you have you have a king tiger [TS]

  eating a cheeseburger who and who [TS]

  launches invasion against earth using an [TS]

  army of crab people who can be eaten the [TS]

  lead character who had his head punched [TS]

  off in like the first trade and merged [TS]

  with the ghost cow is still you know [TS]

  with the ghost cow is still you know [TS]

  fully done with his with his wife who [TS]

  was also super hero [TS]

  it's it's it's a book that makes almost [TS]

  no sense if you haven't been reading it [TS]

  from the first trade and i love it so [TS]

  much because it is just so so broad and [TS]

  video and um Lexi and I finally finished [TS]

  the she-hulk run done by kind of [TS]

  Lincoln's last name sue shoot souls [TS]

  Charles Charles souls i finally finished [TS]

  the she-hulk round that he did and it [TS]

  had a lovely and satisfying ending and [TS]

  I'm sorry that he's not continue on that [TS]

  book and I hope that someday she hulk [TS]

  gets the gets the Hawkeye experience [TS]

  where the right team like the right [TS]

  audience finds the book and embraces it [TS]

  and sort of carries it forward because [TS]

  it was a lot of fun and they actually [TS]

  show doing a lot of Lord lawyer type [TS]

  stuff and they made that pretty [TS]

  interesting which is which is a big [TS]

  challenge so those are the books I've [TS]

  been reading recently [TS]

  alright okay I Tony what are you reading [TS]

  well I'm i also read the the intro [TS]

  breaker book that uh Lisa was reading [TS]

  which I also i read as a follow up to [TS]

  fate al which is his with the same [TS]

  author I breaker and an artist I think [TS]

  Shaun Phillips which is basically kind [TS]

  of AR Anwar with mixed with the lumix [TS]

  which was interesting i also mentioned i [TS]

  just recently read those recommended to [TS]

  me by a librarian so i'll share that [TS]

  recommendation on to you [TS]

  Southern Cross is a kind of of murder [TS]

  mystery set in space about a woman who [TS]

  is looking for her sister who [TS]

  disappeared on a tanker flight to the [TS]

  the moon of Titan and I like like [TS]

  something space i really like the fuse [TS]

  which is murder mysteries in space and [TS]

  seven crosses a little bit more of that [TS]

  with some kind of weird kind of trippy [TS]

  70 style art so that was pretty [TS]

  interesting read the first following [TS]

  with that and I [TS]

  and looking forward to more volumes of [TS]

  that I had I haven't started a new [TS]

  series a long time and I just already [TS]

  squirrel girl because Lisa told me to so [TS]

  badly so she does that [TS]

  so Shannon do you have anything that [TS]

  you'd like to recommend that you've been [TS]

  looking at [TS]

  well unfortunately i have been so [TS]

  swamped at work i have gotten very [TS]

  little reading done in general and most [TS]

  of it's been for the foot podcast but I [TS]

  did manage to finally get Sandman [TS]

  overture done in red [TS]

  yes it took me this long but yes to it [TS]

  because i am all things a man i'm a huge [TS]

  fan of gaming and anything game and does [TS]

  so once this was completed in a trade [TS]

  paperback format [TS]

  I I I grabbed it and i bought it in and [TS]

  I enjoyed it [TS]

  alright and leave anything other than [TS]

  the things that we assigned you for for [TS]

  this anything else that you've been [TS]

  reading and liking and agent same as the [TS]

  last episode honestly and miss marvel [TS]

  the German hologram squirrel girl i [TS]

  really like i really love her approach [TS]

  to problem solving and because she [TS]

  doesn't just like beat him up she she [TS]

  solves problems and I appreciate that [TS]

  and I have the 2014 round of Black Widow [TS]

  which i haven't dived into quite yet and [TS]

  and then yeah that's about it [TS]

  alright and then for me i'll say in [TS]

  addition to yes the wicked the divine [TS]

  I've been reading only one of midnighter [TS]

  the Joe orlando comic about the from [TS]

  from from the pages of the authority and [TS]

  I think he's an interesting guy i it's [TS]

  it's violent but funny and kind of weird [TS]

  and I find him enjoyable and that this [TS]

  is the midnight or after he and he and [TS]

  his husband have a split up and so he's [TS]

  he's like on his own and has his [TS]

  everybody knows he's the midnighter and [TS]

  he's on tinder or Grindr or whatever as [TS]

  the midnighter and he just dates dates [TS]

  people and is the midnighter and it's [TS]

  fascinating and interesting and strange [TS]

  and I like it [TS]

  thanks to thanks to Joe steal for [TS]

  recommending that actually on Twitter so [TS]

  quick question do they explain why the [TS]

  marriage falls apart [TS]

  no it's not dealt with it all in the [TS]

  first issue and and this is like new 52 [TS]

  stuff so for all i know everything's [TS]

  been red card out of existence i have no [TS]

  idea all i know is he's single and [TS]

  coming out of a bad relationship and [TS]

  still like beaten people up and killing [TS]

  them and stuff because they're bad and [TS]

  has a computer in his head [TS]

  actually the the theme of my last couple [TS]

  months of comic reading has been [TS]

  revisiting it's sort of like what Tony [TS]

  said about you you get new issues and [TS]

  you have to read the old issues again I [TS]

  did that with saga it turned out that [TS]

  there are about eight issues of saga [TS]

  that I just lets it because I kind of [TS]

  got soggy it out after a while and so I [TS]

  went back to the beginning I read all of [TS]

  saga and then read the last year's worth [TS]

  of issues that i hadn't read and it was [TS]

  really enjoyable I think I found my love [TS]

  of Frank avon saga and Fiona staples [TS]

  saga again after putting iikind of [TS]

  overdosed on it so i put it aside for [TS]

  for like a year away where you left it [TS]

  because that's that's where things [TS]

  always are yeah that's what you looking [TS]

  at i just put it on you know what no i [TS]

  wasn't i had to start from the beginning [TS]

  again because I totally lost I literally [TS]

  could not remember where I even left off [TS]

  its it was only this the last place you [TS]

  look now and then are similarly and more [TS]

  pointedly for morning glories which i [TS]

  really like but we have that one day [TS]

  cannot it it's so wildly complicated a [TS]

  story and it's convoluted and there's [TS]

  time travel and three-time loops and [TS]

  just crazy stuff happens in morning [TS]

  glories and I i read i inhaled like the [TS]

  first for trades or something and then [TS]

  it's been like a year or so year or two [TS]

  and I realized that I had no idea i [TS]

  picked up one of the issues i haven't [TS]

  read and realize that no idea what's [TS]

  going on so I went back to the beginning [TS]

  and read from the start all the way [TS]

  through the current issue which is [TS]

  number 49 and number 50 comes out in [TS]

  like a week or two and it closed it caps [TS]

  and arc and it's very exciting and if [TS]

  you're a fan of I'd say lost is the best [TS]

  analog it's like lost the comic book [TS]

  except set in a in a boarding school but [TS]

  it is like lost it has stuff where [TS]

  you're like what just happened and is [TS]

  that time travel and it's quite a thing [TS]

  so if you're a fan of that kind of crazy [TS]

  twisting too [TS]

  doing stuff morning glories uh but I i [TS]

  did have to go back for both of those [TS]

  and really just start from the beginning [TS]

  and read them from scratch it was a [TS]

  delight to do that because they're both [TS]

  good books all right I think we've [TS]

  reached the end of the comic book club [TS]

  how about that but that's okay because [TS]

  we'll all be reincarnated in 90 years [TS]

  and return to the comic book pantheon [TS]

  this know maybe this I don't know people [TS]

  be reading comics in 90 years i'll just [TS]

  be beating them to each other using a [TS]

  pair of their brain simply streaming [TS]

  images to reach an executive branch of [TS]

  the brand's yeah we animated images [TS]

  Nellis yeah probably [TS]

  well I'd like to thank my panelists for [TS]

  joining me to read and discuss what [TS]

  given the divine there's a lot of fun [TS]

  Shannon soda thanks for being here [TS]

  always a pleasure only in Sims thank you [TS]

  thank you Tony single are made the [TS]

  Batman be with you and with you and Lisa [TS]

  Schmeisser is always a pleasure [TS]

  if you come up with that was great to me [TS]

  yes [TS]

  oh I had a great time thank you and [TS]

  became a bad man be with all of you [TS]

  how fair right Tony right yeah I don't [TS]

  know I'm gorgeous typical in the flash [TS]

  at this point it doesn't matter it's [TS]

  dark [TS]

  she's their tragedy of these he's you're [TS]

  always within the within like five feet [TS]

  of Batman he's just always nearby just [TS]

  in their rush you can't see them but [TS]

  what the footprints art where you're [TS]

  walking on a beach and then when you [TS]

  look there's only one set of footprints [TS]

  but there's also the Cape line behind [TS]

  them gently racism if they go [TS]

  that man is always with us thanks [TS]

  everybody for listening we will see you [TS]

  next time [TS]

  [Music] [TS]