The Incomparable

296: The Official Batman


  the incomparable number 296 April 2016 [TS]

  welcome back everybody to be [TS]

  uncomfortable on your host Jason Steele [TS]

  we're here to talk as everybody has [TS]

  demanded about Batman and that's right [TS]

  that's why we're going to be talking [TS]

  about that man [TS]

  the animated series a bad man that [TS]

  people want to watch doing that's all [TS]

  because they do join me to talk about a [TS]

  classic perhaps the definitive Batman [TS]

  will see what people have to say about [TS]

  it [TS]

  we've got a fantastic panel here David [TS]

  jail or is here [TS]

  hello hello you use the adjective i was [TS]

  going to use definitive then thank you i [TS]

  have the playwright approves my [TS]

  adjective I'd did more and also joins us [TS]

  hide and i am the night [TS]

  I mean hi hey let's go get some in your [TS]

  throat there i think i do I sorry i got [TS]

  some tea hero but Shannon sudderth also [TS]

  joins us hello Lefty easy joining us for [TS]

  the very first time but a familiar name [TS]

  if you read the old TV website which is [TS]

  essentially what spawned being [TS]

  comfortable but it's his first and [TS]

  comfortable podcast you weighed almost [TS]

  300 episodes but you finally did its [TS]

  Nathan alderman I Nathan howdy [TS]

  and finally the cut one of the Cardinals [TS]

  of the Church of Batman Tony sindelar [TS]

  hello nerds home so dark so menacing so [TS]

  threatening that is the voice of a great [TS]

  detective the org chart in the Church of [TS]

  Batman is complicated [TS]

  it's very shadowy not all there's a lot [TS]

  of dash lines not a lot of straight [TS]

  lines [TS]

  no I would imagine it's always Ashline [TS]

  'he's and the collar shadows kind of [TS]

  clouds and what's the question marks at [TS]

  the very least I'm a gray eminence maybe [TS]

  not a dark eminence you ingrate and [TS]

  never know we can't working Batman yes [TS]

  that's true [TS]

  does every sermon in the Church of [TS]

  Batman have to be delivered in like a [TS]

  deep husky girl that 10 your throat [TS]

  he's always watching you Batman mom he [TS]

  knows if you've been naughty or nice [TS]

  spoiler it's always naughty Tony tell us [TS]

  why we chose to watch batman the [TS]

  animated series and you give us a list [TS]

  of episodes to watch how you know there [TS]

  was a lot of talk about [TS]

  Batman vs Superman uh a lot of people [TS]

  ask me what are my feelings on Batman vs [TS]

  Superman that is not a question I felt [TS]

  qualified to answer because i have not [TS]

  seen Batman or Superman me I'll see it [TS]

  someday but i am not in any rush like if [TS]

  it finds me i'm waiting for it i'm [TS]

  waiting for batman superman that damn [TS]

  well I you Tony Allen tired of that man [TS]

  it has remained neutral on Batman vs [TS]

  Superman up to have not made a statement [TS]

  either way [TS]

  yeah it right there like either agnostic [TS]

  is there a schism here is there like [TS]

  that man is different things to [TS]

  different people and there are some [TS]

  people who you know Batman or Superman [TS]

  is the Batman they need i am from the [TS]

  the tradition that sees batman the [TS]

  animated series as the eyes [TS]

  batman batman the animated series uh you [TS]

  know if this error in the early nineties [TS]

  i was a a you know medium-sized child [TS]

  not quite a teenager yet and i would [TS]

  come home and I would watch this every [TS]

  day and it was basically the best part [TS]

  about my childhood so it's gonna be [TS]

  really great when other people feel like [TS]

  Lester about it looking at you Jason i [TS]

  will explain it so so this series began [TS]

  to air why you were your mediums its [TS]

  child I was uh I think I was probably I [TS]

  was 11 or 12 when I was watching it so [TS]

  this was this actually premiered when i [TS]

  started grad school [TS]

  I'm I left College went to grad school I [TS]

  was not watching television at this [TS]

  point very much because i was doing lots [TS]

  of other stuff and I completely missed [TS]

  it completely missed it so for this you [TS]

  you assigned all of us some episodes to [TS]

  watch these are the only episodes of the [TS]

  series that I've ever seen but I watched [TS]

  all of them so i picked 10 episodes i [TS]

  can talk a little bit about why I tried [TS]

  to pick those but it is hard this is [TS]

  you know there are many episodes for the [TS]

  ship the show and I tried to pick 10 and [TS]

  some several of those 10 are two [TS]

  partners [TS]

  yes I because batman the animated series [TS]

  has some great two partners but that [TS]

  limits kind of the number of like little [TS]

  stories you get to fit in 10 but you [TS]

  know I thought ten was like a very nice [TS]

  package and some of those were like [TS]

  things that are my favorite episodes and [TS]

  some of those were episodes i thought [TS]

  might appeal to Jason who was seeing for [TS]

  the first time and some of them were the [TS]

  ones that I thought were like the best [TS]

  episodes [TS]

  the most important representatives see [TS]

  let's check out everybody else first [TS]

  about their experience we now know that [TS]

  i didn't watch it and tony was a [TS]

  medium-sized child who watched it was [TS]

  the best thing about his childhood so I [TS]

  let's see how everybody else feels where [TS]

  what was your exposure to Batman the [TS]

  Animated Series dan I like Tony's house [TS]

  a little bit old and holding but not by [TS]

  much i remember watching it in junior [TS]

  high school [TS]

  i specially I have a very distinct [TS]

  memory there is one of those days when [TS]

  we were in school and there's like a [TS]

  rumor going around i don't know what [TS]

  spawned it but as as happens in schools [TS]

  account today today is going to be the [TS]

  end the end of the world today at like [TS]

  like four o'clock or something like that [TS]

  you know one of those doomsday cult type [TS]

  predictions that 11 and 12 year old so [TS]

  you really like and I remember applying [TS]

  I hope not because Batman is on at five [TS]

  so i started watching very like Tony I [TS]

  would come home and i would i would [TS]

  watch it in the in the afternoon and for [TS]

  me I think the most exciting thing about [TS]

  this not that i was in an enormous [TS]

  Batman fan going in but was there was [TS]

  something about they show that was [TS]

  clearly set apart from the other [TS]

  cartoons that i was watching at the time [TS]

  yeah i enjoyed liked your Animaniacs and [TS]

  Tiny Toons your things they're a little [TS]

  more comedic but the fact that this [TS]

  wasn't this was a cartoon that was first [TS]

  of all not played for laughs at all [TS]

  pretty much I mean there's there's some [TS]

  comedy here and there but most of the [TS]

  episodes tend to veer a little bit more [TS]

  towards the serious side if a lot darker [TS]

  than a lot of the the cartoons i was [TS]

  watching which appealed to me as someone [TS]

  who was you know preteen right there and [TS]

  I think I what I like the most about it [TS]

  was that especially as the show went on [TS]

  you do have these see realized stories [TS]

  often broken into a couple parts and for [TS]

  me there is no greater thrill than like [TS]

  you know attorney on it like previously [TS]

  on Batman look at that was not a thing [TS]

  that you saw in cartoons like for the [TS]

  most part [TS]

  occasionally you get some like Japanese [TS]

  import like redub Johnnie Mae and that [TS]

  would have sort of an ongoing story but [TS]

  what this was one of the first American [TS]

  cartoons that I remember watching as a [TS]

  kid that actually continued from episode [TS]

  to episode and as someone who loves [TS]

  cereal storytelling that really appealed [TS]

  to me and not just in the direct you [TS]

  know you [TS]

  have a lot to partners but as the series [TS]

  went on we added new characters existing [TS]

  characters got developed you know [TS]

  villains would recur and and it felt [TS]

  like there was change happening here [TS]

  which is a little silly to say in a [TS]

  comic book series in some ways because [TS]

  like you know the big thing I think he [TS]

  was like that man kind of never really [TS]

  changes right like that's that's kind of [TS]

  his his stick but the especially as I [TS]

  got back and revisit the voice acting [TS]

  you know so many of these characters to [TS]

  me have become I think I i use the word [TS]

  with you earlier Jason definitive in my [TS]

  head Kevin Conroy is as entertaining to [TS]

  Erica Andy and Batman especially is like [TS]

  the Batman that I remember mark hamill's [TS]

  Joker is of course the sort of to be the [TS]

  definitive Joker and as those characters [TS]

  have gone if they've betrayed them in a [TS]

  number of forms including some of the [TS]

  video games later on and and this the [TS]

  designs of the characters even so I i [TS]

  think that for me this really set my [TS]

  expectations of who Batman wasn't this [TS]

  comes a couple years after the first and [TS]

  and second i think michael keaton movies [TS]

  but those felt those were kinda too old [TS]

  or too young [TS]

  I I was too young i felt in some ways [TS]

  for those are at least they were a [TS]

  little darker than I was prepared for [TS]

  that age so this really i think defined [TS]

  you know what Batman was to me I'd seem [TS]

  like the Adam West series earlier on I [TS]

  think I had a pair of Batman pajamas [TS]

  they had like a velcro tape that was [TS]

  pretty sweet but yeah this to me is a [TS]

  kevin conroy i will always remain my [TS]

  Batman and the show is still fantastic [TS]

  right David what was your experience [TS]

  with batman the animated series i had [TS]

  seen several you know I grown up with [TS]

  several iterations of Batman and the [TS]

  Adam West one was on all the certainly [TS]

  was usually both yes so you know that [TS]

  was that was my main thing i saw the [TS]

  Filmation cartoon versions in the [TS]

  seventies were okay [TS]

  they were great they were better than [TS]

  Superfriends and so you know when the [TS]

  michael keaton the first one hit i was [TS]

  really excited like okay we're gonna see [TS]

  at a good Batman this is great and so [TS]

  the animated series hit just about when [TS]

  batman returns came out which explains [TS]

  it you how Catwoman's relationship in [TS]

  the in the cartoon series [TS]

  developed its it's like spun off of that [TS]

  and so yeah I was ready for it when it [TS]

  premiered it premiered on fox on sunday [TS]

  night at seven with with the first [TS]

  episode with man-bat and I was sitting [TS]

  there with a couple of my friends from [TS]

  high school who were just starting [TS]

  graduate school and I was like I I don't [TS]

  care what else we do tonight we are [TS]

  going to watch batman right now and they [TS]

  they said that they were hooked and then [TS]

  when the actual series started my mother [TS]

  got hooked just walking through and [TS]

  seeing it going hey that's actually good [TS]

  because I mean I I'd grown up again on [TS]

  the shadow and zoro and you know all the [TS]

  things that influence Batman and this [TS]

  really harkens back to that style both [TS]

  visually a little bit but just in terms [TS]

  of storytelling but with more maturity [TS]

  it's it's much better written than most [TS]

  of the old influences on it so yeah I i [TS]

  made what time to watch it even though I [TS]

  was in my twenties by that point and [TS]

  every iteration of the show that came [TS]

  out after that you know the new Batman [TS]

  adventures the Batman and Robin [TS]

  adventures and and then Superman I'm not [TS]

  even a big Superman fan i watched their [TS]

  version of superman that went along with [TS]

  this and then of course the Justice [TS]

  League series is and all the animated [TS]

  films that have come since then and and [TS]

  yeah that's that's why i say this is [TS]

  definitive I i'm really not all that [TS]

  interest I I like this better than the [TS]

  Christopher Nolan films even the ones [TS]

  that i like you know this is Batman to [TS]

  me because this is a plausible [TS]

  continuing life of a superhero the [TS]

  big-budget movies are big explodey [TS]

  things I mean what we get one Joker [TS]

  story and then he dies until they [TS]

  rebooted and we get one Joker story and [TS]

  he dies it's like no no this is how this [TS]

  works this is a comic book [TS]

  Nathan what's your idea what's your [TS]

  relationship with the animated series [TS]

  III I get the sense that you liked it a [TS]

  lot [TS]

  oh ok [TS]

  actually I remember watching it the day [TS]

  it premiered which is actually on a [TS]

  Saturday before the man bad episode on [TS]

  the sunday they shared the very first [TS]

  episode on a saturday morning i remember [TS]

  sitting down with my brother I'd read [TS]

  about it i read about it a few years [TS]

  before it came out in some promotional [TS]

  magazine that Warner Brothers sent out [TS]

  that somehow wound it's found its way [TS]

  into my middle school journalism [TS]

  classroom but i still remember my [TS]

  brother and I parked on the couch we've [TS]

  got a tape in the VCR to record it [TS]

  the anticipation and then seeing this [TS]

  amazing show unfold with these opening [TS]

  credits that have no text no titles no [TS]

  words just music and images I watched my [TS]

  brother and I watched that first episode [TS]

  i think four times that weekend alone [TS]

  just rewatching because we had never [TS]

  seen anything like this in animation we [TS]

  both been reading Batman comics for a [TS]

  few years you know I like recordings of [TS]

  the shadow I was about 13 years old at [TS]

  that point and I love like old [TS]

  recordings the shadow with Orson Welles [TS]

  and and I knew about Frank Miller even [TS]

  though I haven't really read his work so [TS]

  yeah it is i think what makes it great [TS]

  is that it's a synthesis of every good [TS]

  aspect of Batman that had come before [TS]

  the series throughout every iteration of [TS]

  the character you've got like the bright [TS]

  primary colors of the very first comics [TS]

  you've got some of the the fun Silver [TS]

  Age goofiness and like that a little bit [TS]

  of the camp from the Batman 66 series [TS]

  like in the Riddler's costume design [TS]

  you've got the darkness of the movies [TS]

  you've got a little Frank Miller in the [TS]

  in the squareness of the the character [TS]

  designs all these they had all this [TS]

  great stuff to pick and choose from and [TS]

  then when they didn't have great stuff [TS]

  to pick and choose from like with mr. [TS]

  freeze [TS]

  they created stuff that went on to [TS]

  become you know as good as any of the [TS]

  stuff that they picked and chose from it [TS]

  it's I mean when you think about it this [TS]

  is the first animated series that in a [TS]

  way that is still totally appropriate [TS]

  for kids shows a married couple sharing [TS]

  a bed shows an abusive relationship [TS]

  which is genuinely terrifying and still [TS]

  manages to make it all k kid friendly [TS]

  and in a way that kids can understand [TS]

  and relate to its it is my favorite [TS]

  animated series it's one of my favorite [TS]

  TV series so I'm [TS]

  the you might notice i'm slightly [TS]

  excited to be here and talk about it [TS]

  it's good good uh Shannon what about you [TS]

  so i would be part of the group that [TS]

  started watching this in grad school I [TS]

  grew up on the Batman reruns from the [TS]

  old Adam West Show and I was a total [TS]

  Batgirl phonetic is sort of was my [TS]

  gateway into it when I was very young [TS]

  and gettin older was excited for the the [TS]

  first batman movie at this point I was [TS]

  in grad school I'd found my tribe and I [TS]

  was in a science-fiction club and this [TS]

  is one of the things that everybody was [TS]

  interested in and talked about loved [TS]

  loved the tim burton movies really [TS]

  enjoyed that they elevated the comic [TS]

  books to this grand big-scale much [TS]

  better than any of the TV shows might [TS]

  have and then this animated series is [TS]

  coming out and I watched anime i watched [TS]

  cartoons still I like various cartoons [TS]

  and I if I remember correctly there was [TS]

  a viewing party with are some of the [TS]

  people that are science fiction club [TS]

  that you everybody got together and [TS]

  somebody's apartment just to watch the [TS]

  first episodes and we were like and this [TS]

  is smart [TS]

  that was one of the things that we [TS]

  thought not just not not just good not [TS]

  just artistic this cohesive universe [TS]

  that they created with the style of the [TS]

  the animation of the world creating this [TS]

  sort of forties fifties vibe and yet all [TS]

  of the computers appliances everything [TS]

  completely modern all of this mix [TS]

  together just and the use of the [TS]

  characters that people have mentioned [TS]

  creating or reinventing a classic Batman [TS]

  villains creating new interesting [TS]

  possibilities and always with this [TS]

  balanced sense it's like very few of [TS]

  these characters are 100-percent evil so [TS]

  many of the origins they create come [TS]

  from somebody who you know mr. freeze [TS]

  that will be talking about in a few [TS]

  minutes when we get to the actual [TS]

  episodes it that the animated series [TS]

  take is this was just a guy trying to [TS]

  save his wife and this evil corporate do [TS]

  good prevents it and apparently kills [TS]

  the wife and turns him into the [TS]

  supervillain that he became on the [TS]

  emotional beats were there in a way that [TS]

  I had not seen with um with what any [TS]

  other animated cartoon series certainly [TS]

  you know with Frank Miller's Dark Knight [TS]

  other comics were getting into deeper [TS]

  more emotional storytelling about TV [TS]

  haven't caught up yet [TS]

  and then of course like the others I I [TS]

  kept watching the first team universe [TS]

  all hail of Superman justice leave don't [TS]

  be in Titans I've been paying attention [TS]

  and continuing to watch just like a lot [TS]

  of you guys and I love rewatching the [TS]

  show I've loved introducing it to my [TS]

  teenager when he was younger he got into [TS]

  it with 19 10 years old somewhere in [TS]

  there that all of a sudden he wanted to [TS]

  start watching it more like yeah here [TS]

  here's the first set of dvds go for it [TS]

  so we've always been really appreciative [TS]

  of just how well they captured a vision [TS]

  of the Batman that took bits for all the [TS]

  best bits from all of these different [TS]

  sources and made it into something [TS]

  definitive no other word for it and and [TS]

  tying into something both of you sort of [TS]

  hit on the real thing that comes out in [TS]

  this there's a difference between mature [TS]

  and adult there is a maturing into the [TS]

  characters and the writing in this show [TS]

  that none of the movies even approach as [TS]

  adults in serious and violent yo ho look [TS]

  at us we're deep [TS]

  no yeah your bombastic this has real [TS]

  emotional maturity [TS]

  yeah and i think that there's also [TS]

  stresses the character of Batman you [TS]

  know way I think part of what makes a [TS]

  definitive for me is that the Batman [TS]

  here is an interesting multi-dimensional [TS]

  character who is not I don't know I feel [TS]

  like today's Batman is so did yall angst [TS]

  all the time right he says she's got [TS]

  anyone [TS]

  one key yeah yeah he's jingoistic and so [TS]

  many of the movies right where it's like [TS]

  I'm good and like I the improve our [TS]

  playoff the brutality of it which it I [TS]

  get you know as sort of a dimension that [TS]

  you can explore Batman but you're right [TS]

  that's one note whereas here I I mean [TS]

  for me there is no better summation of [TS]

  the Batman from this and therefore the [TS]

  Batman that i consider sort of the [TS]

  official Batman then the you know and [TS]

  Nathan mentioned the title sequence [TS]

  itself there's no dialogue [TS]

  there's no words there's no titles and [TS]

  yet the story of the title sequences [TS]

  itself self-contained I mean it's a [TS]

  little pilot for it right [TS]

  exactly it's sarah and but like I love [TS]

  that he tell you like here's a guy he [TS]

  shows up he beats the thugs but he [TS]

  doesn't like he doesn't like beat them [TS]

  right like he defeats them but without [TS]

  like brutalizing them leaves them tied [TS]

  up for the police that's his job and [TS]

  then he goes off and he stands so elated [TS]

  by lightning but like there's something [TS]

  about it to me that encapsulate the [TS]

  whole idea of this Batman he's a [TS]

  vigilante yes but he's a detective and a [TS]

  crime solver and there's no there's just [TS]

  so much more to him as a character here [TS]

  than I think in in pretty much any of [TS]

  the other on-screen representations that [TS]

  we see the detective element is is one [TS]

  of the things I really like about this [TS]

  version of batman because I mean that's [TS]

  the you know Batman is theoretically the [TS]

  world's greatest detective but there's a [TS]

  lot of iterations of Batman where he is [TS]

  he does not do any detecting work he's [TS]

  the world's greatest punter of ninjas [TS]

  basically I don't I further i prefer the [TS]

  world's greatest detective and and he [TS]

  does a lot more and some of that I think [TS]

  may be a factor of like this was a kids [TS]

  show that was going to play on weekday [TS]

  afternoons it so it can't be brutal [TS]

  violence and so there's more like [TS]

  solving puzzles and especially even like [TS]

  the first set of episodes it's kind of [TS]

  like more wackier villains and you know [TS]

  like that this careful shows up multiple [TS]

  times to make people like scared of [TS]

  things but like I like that he is he is [TS]

  he has an actual detective he does a lot [TS]

  across the episodes with like solving [TS]

  mysteries and figuring out riddles and [TS]

  and solving puzzles [TS]

  he does a lot with that disguises and he [TS]

  has [TS]

  it's more like personas that he takes on [TS]

  him and you know that happens in some [TS]

  versions of the comics but there's a lot [TS]

  of the modern version of Batman that [TS]

  kind of like they they they kind of [TS]

  dropped that or the detective angle is [TS]

  not so much the Batman is detective so [TS]

  much as like he's got all these gadgets [TS]

  right you know so I mean a recent Batman [TS]

  comic i was reading he has like a thing [TS]

  in his club so that he can literally [TS]

  like touch something and his glove like [TS]

  analyzes the DNA and stuff in the [TS]

  computer tells them where to go next and [TS]

  it's like I mean technically he's doing [TS]

  detective work there but it's really [TS]

  just he has the fancy as nice as [TS]

  computer that money can buy do the [TS]

  detective work for him yet in this vs [TS]

  Batman is a detective rich in strategic [TS]

  and many of them like he's shown as sort [TS]

  of a tactician and strategist almost [TS]

  more like a soldier in many of the [TS]

  movies and TV shows you know he's got [TS]

  like smoothie smart about how he engages [TS]

  and fights but we never see him being [TS]

  particularly clever you know or or smart [TS]

  in the sense of like I'm going to [TS]

  unravel all these things I agree totally [TS]

  Tony that that's that is played up here [TS]

  so much more [TS]

  not only you know several the characters [TS]

  mentioned him as a detective including [TS]

  mr. freeze and of course Rachel will [TS]

  always calls him detective which is a [TS]

  detail I like that a lot [TS]

  yeah and I think that that to me is I [TS]

  agree totally like this is the Batman I [TS]

  want to see because it's the Batman who [TS]

  is not solely reliant on his gadgets or [TS]

  his ability to beat the crap out of [TS]

  other people right like he uses his [TS]

  brains and and that's that sets him [TS]

  apart in some ways for especially if you [TS]

  put them up against someone like [TS]

  Superman who is never considered I feel [TS]

  like to be particularly smart hero right [TS]

  you know and so if you can't beat [TS]

  Superman by beating him you know you [TS]

  beaten by outsmarting him and there's [TS]

  the the famous Justice League bit where [TS]

  you know all of the other members of [TS]

  Justice League you're stuck somewhere [TS]

  they have to like go undercover and [TS]

  they're like worried about developing [TS]

  their secret identities and Batman's [TS]

  just like you know I remember you are [TS]

  you are you yeah let's move on I've got [TS]

  a file on all of you like come on people [TS]

  and and while I would watch the hell out [TS]

  of the show called ninja puncher this is [TS]

  actually a an aspirational hero to his [TS]

  heroic he's just good and he's held up [TS]

  as an example by characters in the show [TS]

  even which you again you can't say about [TS]

  the movies [TS]

  yep agreed and he's also he's fallible [TS]

  and and mortal which is interesting in [TS]

  the comics you know grant morrison kind [TS]

  of started the trend of you know the bat [TS]

  God he's he's never wrong [TS]

  he's always got a contingency for [TS]

  everything in this series we've got a [TS]

  Batman who catches a cold and sneezing [TS]

  and sniffling I met issues we've got one [TS]

  where you know in arguably the most [TS]

  Batman thing ever the episode opens with [TS]

  him brooding on a stone thrown in his [TS]

  cave not you know because he has doubts [TS]

  that what he's doing is making a [TS]

  difference and i love that i think that [TS]

  adds a a wonderful nuanced and humanity [TS]

  to the character that you don't see you [TS]

  in the comics anymore really and in a [TS]

  lot definitely a lot of these [TS]

  adaptations so if somebody who I was in [TS]

  college when the Michael Keaton Batman [TS]

  came out i was struck that obviously the [TS]

  theme music here is the danny elfman [TS]

  Batman theme which I love I loved that [TS]

  whole score album from the the the tim [TS]

  burton original batman with Michael [TS]

  Keaton and I feel like that that movie [TS]

  because it lifted so much from so many [TS]

  different areas that had like old cars [TS]

  and you know the design of the Batmobile [TS]

  that it it in some ways I I don't know [TS]

  the backstory here but it struck me that [TS]

  maybe it gave this series the freedom to [TS]

  have some interesting art direction and [TS]

  have this be this kind of retro feeling [TS]

  it is the show in terms of style it [TS]

  isn't shiny and new and modern it's very [TS]

  kind of throwback and in that in that [TS]

  period I mean that was what the temper [TS]

  and Batman was to it was it was not [TS]

  something that looked modern it looked [TS]

  like some kind of indeterminate time [TS]

  where there was modern things but there [TS]

  was always also like old cars and old [TS]

  technology and a really fun combination [TS]

  of that so I was struck by that to that [TS]

  the the the tim burton Batman I feel [TS]

  like maybe I gave them the freedom to do [TS]

  something that wasn't maybe something [TS]

  they could have done on their own [TS]

  without that taking the lead and that [TS]

  was one thing that Gotham is actually [TS]

  the one thing that Gotham has done [TS]

  really well as a TV show is follow in [TS]

  that footsteps of creating like the [TS]

  there are computers but everything is [TS]

  kind of old and seems like it's from [TS]

  some weird like Hades fifties mashup [TS]

  time period like I mean that [TS]

  it's got a bat computer in this right [TS]

  but like there's also airships yet up so [TS]

  yeah I agree [TS]

  it feels fantastic goal which is nice i [TS]

  would say the Batman character to you [TS]

  know if you look at keeton in the [TS]

  nineteen eighty-nine Batman it's not [TS]

  that far off from the animated series [TS]

  Batman in some ways he's he's not you [TS]

  know it's not it's not quite the same [TS]

  but you can see how that was kind of an [TS]

  antecedent because you know obviously [TS]

  this as a franchise like what we want to [TS]

  stay sort of on brand with the franchise [TS]

  before totally spun out of control with [TS]

  the the later the later movies so i [TS]

  could see i could sort of see that so [TS]

  anyway I was struck by that is somebody [TS]

  who's seen that Bert tim burton's batman [TS]

  movie 20 x 30 x to have some little [TS]

  connection to do that here [TS]

  I mean it was key to batman returns so [TS]

  they wanted to keep a certain [TS]

  consistency there and that's you know [TS]

  that's why the element is there that's [TS]

  why the the design of the car is not [TS]

  exact but it's close [TS]

  I think something else that maybe comes [TS]

  from the michael keaton movies maybe [TS]

  other sources that I really like about [TS]

  the animated series is how Bruce Wayne [TS]

  is also if there were interesting [TS]

  capable kind of guy he's not the Adam [TS]

  West who's just bless his heart [TS]

  different densities is just kind of [TS]

  there and bubbling until he puts on the [TS]

  Cape but you know the the animated [TS]

  series makes Bruce Wayne just as much of [TS]

  a character in his house his Batman [TS]

  percent he's not terribly interesting [TS]

  human too often Bruce Wayne is as they [TS]

  say as a robert wall says in the 99th [TS]

  batman bruce vain [TS]

  he's just this playboy nobody nobody [TS]

  likes and in Denver's made the series i [TS]

  was struck by that Bruce Wayne sharp [TS]

  he's a smart businessman operative he's [TS]

  negotiating deals he's got yeah he's [TS]

  like an actual character nerds like to [TS]

  argue about like which which version is [TS]

  is real like this is Batman Batman or [TS]

  his batman bruce wayne and which one [TS]

  which one is the like the persona verse [TS]

  which one is really him and batman the [TS]

  animated series does a pretty good job [TS]

  at making them both be people which [TS]

  which which makes that nerd argument you [TS]

  know either more boring or less internal [TS]

  totally changed it outright [TS]

  I just the same yeah he's doing is using [TS]

  his brain power is Batman he's using his [TS]

  brain power is Bruce Wayne same guy he's [TS]

  a smart cutter other versions of Batman [TS]

  Bruce Wayne is just you know other right [TS]

  right well it's you when you go back to [TS]

  the the influences you've got the [TS]

  scarlet pimpernel and sorrow where their [TS]

  alter egos are usually just a fop right [TS]

  it's like or the danger I can't bear the [TS]

  danger and then you have the shadow [TS]

  where sometimes depending on who who was [TS]

  writing and who's performing it [TS]

  sometimes lot Cranston is fully capable [TS]

  sometimes he's a fob but mostly he's [TS]

  pretty capable and this Bruce Wayne [TS]

  follows and in that shadow Lamont [TS]

  Cranston tradition but which again I [TS]

  love and to the point we also get [TS]

  episodes that center around Bruce Wayne [TS]

  where Batman right is more peripheral [TS]

  which is interesting we don't see that [TS]

  in a lot of places and full credit once [TS]

  again to kevin conroy who does a great [TS]

  job with 2 totally like distinct voice [TS]

  like you can always tell when is Bruce [TS]

  Wayne and you can always tell his batman [TS]

  and even sometimes when he looks like [TS]

  Bruce Wayne but he's like talking Alfred [TS]

  or something you say hi [TS]

  yeah love it love it so good he is so [TS]

  good at conveying those two separate [TS]

  characters let me take a break to tell [TS]

  you about our sponsor it is i cracked [TS]

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  sponsoring being comfortable in Tony you [TS]

  want to say a little bit about why you [TS]

  pick the episode to pick for us to watch [TS]

  or rewatch sure to do so we kind of hop [TS]

  through each one and chat about the [TS]

  let's do it [TS]

  so the first one I picked I believe it [TS]

  gets tricky in terms of when you whether [TS]

  you look at like production numbers or [TS]

  airing order but I've got it labeled as [TS]

  episode 14 hard advice you'll notice [TS]

  that we did we we skipped a bunch right [TS]

  we didn't didn't make you watch the [TS]

  first one or the second one anything [TS]

  like that because batman the animated [TS]

  series get something right that a movie [TS]

  seemed to be struggling with many [TS]

  decades later in that there is no origin [TS]

  story episode of batman the animated [TS]

  series we get little bits and flavors of [TS]

  his origin and that fits into things [TS]

  especially with there are characters [TS]

  that persuade interacts with the new him [TS]

  before he was Batman and there's some [TS]

  some backstory episodes and things like [TS]

  that but there is no origin episode so I [TS]

  just I just jumped many episodes in [TS]

  sohar device is the the introduction of [TS]

  mr. freeze [TS]

  Mr Freeze is one of my favorite Batman [TS]

  villains and this was kind of a [TS]

  reinvention of the Mr Freeze character [TS]

  he was always kind of a wacky kind of [TS]

  mischievous kind of character before and [TS]

  this is like the dark tragic reimagining [TS]

  of him where his he's a cryogenic [TS]

  scientist and his his wife is killed by [TS]

  capitalism home or in an incompetent / [TS]

  are actually mile / be played by Mark [TS]

  Hamill are who doesn't of writing voices [TS]

  was notably the Joker I had trouble [TS]

  noticing him in this episode because it [TS]

  uses actual voice instead of the Joker [TS]

  voice I was like why is that voice [TS]

  sounds so familiar [TS]

  so this is probably not the strongest [TS]

  one but i did want i want to kind of a [TS]

  range of [TS]

  Batman villains to appear on the list [TS]

  because there's a lot of I mean I the [TS]

  bet the anime series versions of the [TS]

  Batman villains in addition to being [TS]

  like the best version of Batman in my in [TS]

  my opinion it also has some of the best [TS]

  versions of many of the classic villains [TS]

  and reinventions last introductions of [TS]

  villains I mean especially mr. freeze [TS]

  kind of tragic in that this is like this [TS]

  great reinvention of him and then like [TS]

  five years later we get the arnold [TS]

  schwarzenegger crowd which is ideal [TS]

  based on this they just you know [TS]

  yeah they left a message on that like [TS]

  that you know he's out his noodle [TS]

  scientists and kapalit i believe ya but [TS]

  ya su this is actually it i think [TS]

  unfairly if not strong episode it is [TS]

  really representative of what the [TS]

  animated series winds up doing in my [TS]

  opinion because we as we've got this [TS]

  reimagining of the villain with some [TS]

  depth and some layers to what the [TS]

  original scientist was trying to do and [TS]

  what happens you know when his wife dies [TS]

  and you know the chemicals condemn him [TS]

  to living in the sub-zero environment so [TS]

  he's going after revenge on the one [TS]

  person not the world uh and Batman even [TS]

  though he stops mr. freeze [TS]

  he also arranged for him to get that [TS]

  revenge because he gives the story of [TS]

  what the capitalist did over to the [TS]

  reporter [TS]

  yeah that's a touch that is so often [TS]

  there that little extra poke into [TS]

  maturity as we said our people's [TS]

  consciousness is making people think [TS]

  that's consistent through so much of the [TS]

  series and this is one that really shows [TS]

  it and met that man makes a point of [TS]

  saying it's not vengeance [TS]

  it's justice Yeah right right yeah it's [TS]

  it's not a matter of redeeming the [TS]

  villain or making him you know all [TS]

  friendly by the end but it's okay for [TS]

  him to be a sympathetic villain for us [TS]

  to to feel for him and to say alright [TS]

  maybe you're making the wrong choice [TS]

  this is not the way to go about this but [TS]

  I get it I get why you're doing this and [TS]

  michael ansara just sells every version [TS]

  of this character both in the flashback [TS]

  as as Victor fries and then in you know [TS]

  progressively yeah [TS]

  being you know full-on evil and then [TS]

  dealing with Batman who you know he [TS]

  doesn't really want Batman to get in the [TS]

  way but you don't take him out if he has [TS]

  to [TS]

  and at the end it's just heartbreaking [TS]

  when he's in his cell and you know and [TS]

  and that this was again one of the one [TS]

  of the first ones I saw that just sold [TS]

  me on the show and and you get him [TS]

  coming back in in lovely ways the the [TS]

  later movie that they did Batman [TS]

  sub-zero yeah wonderful wonderful yeah [TS]

  hurry and so they evolved his story and [TS]

  the story of his wife and and just you [TS]

  know again where are you going to see [TS]

  that in any version of Batman and also I [TS]

  believe that my clients are based his [TS]

  vocal performance in part on the poet [TS]

  Robert Frost if you look online you can [TS]

  find recording of frost reading his poem [TS]

  fire and ice and you hear some say the [TS]

  world will end in fire some a nice and [TS]

  it's just like oh ok that clicks that's [TS]

  i'm brian almost certain that's [TS]

  intention which which is genius not [TS]

  afraid to be able to easy by having a [TS]

  villain named freeze go after a CEO name [TS]

  Boyle yeah there's a lot of that yeah [TS]

  yeah yeah well I believe they want a i [TS]

  believe they want a Daytime Emmy [TS]

  lighting [TS]

  yes it for this episode 2 so note this [TS]

  is one of many just on Tony's list that [TS]

  are written by Paul Dini yes as one of [TS]

  the best Batman writers going and good [TS]

  enough that you know things like mr. [TS]

  freezes origins that he reinvented or [TS]

  even characters like Harley Quinn who [TS]

  will meet in just a minute made their [TS]

  way into the other Batman media even [TS]

  into the comic book so this is harley [TS]

  was like the first character to appear [TS]

  in the animated series first and then [TS]

  make our way into the comics and now the [TS]

  summer we'll see even more of her a lot [TS]

  literally and figuratively [TS]

  yeah that's not quite so so Tony I [TS]

  didn't like this one location [TS]

  Jason yeah I'll be right there okay [TS]

  yours Batman best episode VII but it's [TS]

  good i didn't love the sudden love this [TS]

  1i maybe it was because it was the first [TS]

  1i watched I I like all of the other [TS]

  ones better than this one mom thanks to [TS]

  you were entitled to your opinion yeah I [TS]

  I don't know I it just seemed this one I [TS]

  was expecting everything we've set up to [TS]

  now like a well this is you know this is [TS]

  different it's a darker and more complex [TS]

  storyline and all that and I thought wow [TS]

  this is very it felt very saturday [TS]

  morning TV to me it is this one did not [TS]

  feel so complex if you felt really broad [TS]

  abroad and kind of ridiculous and [TS]

  although i appreciated aspects of the of [TS]

  the writing and i really like Michael [TS]

  and sorrows performance which I was able [TS]

  to pick out as a Star Trek fan I [TS]

  immediately knew that it was him which [TS]

  was pretty cool so many great voice [TS]

  actors in all of these episodes this was [TS]

  my least favorite of them as you know [TS]

  and that's fair i would say this is the [TS]

  maybe the weakest Mr Freeze episode you [TS]

  know it's again it's very early on it's [TS]

  it's just sort of setting the template [TS]

  right they're still finding their feet [TS]

  origin stories [TS]

  yeah I feel like part of it is you know [TS]

  recognizing what the series is up to [TS]

  this point and how it differed from a [TS]

  lot of other series in some ways so i [TS]

  mean i agree with all the things have [TS]

  been said I i also do not love this [TS]

  episode i think i appreciate what's good [TS]

  about it but I think some of the other [TS]

  ones I i prefer but i think it's it is [TS]

  still do you know exemplary of kind of [TS]

  where this Batman is going and shows off [TS]

  so many of the good elements we talked [TS]

  about like where Nathan mentioned his [TS]

  mortality and the fact that he's got a [TS]

  cold through this whole thing which is a [TS]

  detail that I love ya [TS]

  so yeah there there's a lot of good in [TS]

  here and it may not be the best exemplar [TS]

  of the whole series but yeah nice job [TS]

  Tony that's the thing i love about this [TS]

  show even when it's bad it's good even [TS]

  in a terrible episode there will be [TS]

  things you can pick out that are still [TS]

  really strong and I didn't think I was [TS]

  terrible but I was like what am i [TS]

  getting serious i watch this one like Oh [TS]

  what am i getting about myself I'm glad [TS]

  you kept going then I watched episode 22 [TS]

  Joker's favor and I said oh [TS]

  yes much ice see what tony is doing here [TS]

  so episode 22 chokers favor you had to [TS]

  have a joker episode on the on the list [TS]

  right [TS]

  yes where is that man's greatest villain [TS]

  a great performance by Mark Hamill and I [TS]

  think this is probably my favorite one [TS]

  of my favorite Joker episodes is also [TS]

  the first this is the introduction of [TS]

  harley quinn like this is where that [TS]

  character came from i think not [TS]

  everybody knows that the characters [TS]

  starting position and contractors we [TS]

  call this the first appearance because [TS]

  she's not really introduced she's just [TS]

  present and we don't learn until I [TS]

  believe there's a later episode that [TS]

  explains our origin but here she just is [TS]

  present there as if she's always been [TS]

  there [TS]

  well and a lot of the episodes are kind [TS]

  of like that right like tony mentioned [TS]

  that there's no origins or if you have a [TS]

  Batman but there's also no origin story [TS]

  or initial meeting for the Joker right [TS]

  the first episode The Joker appears in [TS]

  which i think is way back episode two or [TS]

  three but it's not like he already knows [TS]

  who the Joker is right it's not like oh [TS]

  this guy wandering around calling [TS]

  himself the Joker looks like a clown [TS]

  guess I should go figure out what his [TS]

  deal is now he's already established as [TS]

  you know the Batman and Joker are [TS]

  already more than mortal enemies if you [TS]

  with this fate i think that was by [TS]

  design a lot of the other gowns get get [TS]

  backstories but i think by design they [TS]

  don't humanize the Joker and this [TS]

  episode shows you why he's terrifying [TS]

  yeah he is one of the scariest [TS]

  characters ever in a children's cartoon [TS]

  so for people who don't work if you know [TS]

  can't recall this and shot-for-shot [TS]

  detail like I can promise that this [TS]

  episode is there's basically unfortunate [TS]

  road rage incident between the Joker and [TS]

  just a guy who lives in Gotham makeover [TS]

  yep and then the Joker basically like [TS]

  meet him on the side of the road in the [TS]

  woods and says like I'm gonna come for [TS]

  you in two years or and he takes his [TS]

  driver's license and the guy moves and [TS]

  changes his name and the Joker finds him [TS]

  and demands that he show up at a certain [TS]

  place to open a door so Harley Quinn can [TS]

  wheel a bomb into basically you don't [TS]

  look like a policeman's ball type [TS]

  situation and and again an episode with [TS]

  there's a lot of a lot of we have a lot [TS]

  through the eyes of that character and [TS]

  the Joker and then Batman is also [TS]

  present [TS]

  indeed there's not a lot of bad man but [TS]

  he's he's there when he's needed i love [TS]

  that the guy just curses out the Joker [TS]

  right and they get super be like you [TS]

  know without knowing it's the Joker and [TS]

  then we get that simmer it just keeps [TS]

  following them around and just like the [TS]

  whole like the whole thing is [TS]

  essentially like this I'm gonna come to [TS]

  you and ask for a favor someday like you [TS]

  know very much feel like right now yeah [TS]

  but what I love about this episode is [TS]

  also that in the in the last act as our [TS]

  random guy decides you know I'm going to [TS]

  sort of i've had enough of the Joker's [TS]

  terrorizing me the Joker freaks out at [TS]

  the end right and he's calling for [TS]

  Batman to protect him which is one of [TS]

  the best moments ever use like well this [TS]

  guy is actually crazy [TS]

  these guys are going to give me like and [TS]

  it's just such a great turnabout moment [TS]

  of the Joker realizing it and then to [TS]

  show it like you know he threatened with [TS]

  a bomb basically of course then the [TS]

  bombings at being a dud [TS]

  yep and Batman cracks up right like that [TS]

  master good one yeah I mean it's just so [TS]

  much of that is just delightful and so [TS]

  well constructed as a joker story so [TS]

  much more interesting than so many of [TS]

  the Joker stories I feel like we've [TS]

  gotten more modern where he's a [TS]

  psychopath we need to show you how crazy [TS]

  and like brutal and bloody he is right [TS]

  like he's crazy and brutal in this [TS]

  episode but he's not like he's not [TS]

  reduced to just some sort of like [TS]

  psychotic killer he's got weird [TS]

  dimensions like that's a sympathetic but [TS]

  like he's afraid at times to write which [TS]

  is a dynamic we don't often see with [TS]

  villains and i love that relationship [TS]

  between him the the Batman and the Joker [TS]

  here because it really feels it really [TS]

  captures the Joker's madness has just [TS]

  how random he can be like a volcano [TS]

  stream rich faster on this poor guy and [TS]

  not only does he not hurt or kill him [TS]

  but he's like nope just you're gonna owe [TS]

  me a favor I'm gonna show up and I don't [TS]

  know what my favorite yet but oh I'll [TS]

  see carrier right and makes his hobby [TS]

  you know has a whole little diary [TS]

  keeping track of this guy's moves as he [TS]

  tries to get away [TS]

  it just yeah and Mark Hamill just sells [TS]

  it [TS]

  oh my god my loss motivation so much [TS]

  trillion bits the laugh-out-loud moments [TS]

  for me in this episode is in that [TS]

  opening scene on the freeway [TS]

  I where you see you at one point there's [TS]

  a moment when you realize the Joker is [TS]

  driving the other car and I just started [TS]

  to laugh it's like boy if there's [TS]

  anybody to to get into you know get into [TS]

  a problem on the freeway with it would [TS]

  have to be the Joker right and it's just [TS]

  he's driving somewhere who knows where [TS]

  who knows why who cares to his station [TS]

  wagon he's just driving his hat you guys [TS]

  off i love that everything's great use [TS]

  of great use of music to I can still [TS]

  hear the Joker theme song in my duty [TS]

  do-do-do-do order dinner yeah it's like [TS]

  playful but kind of menacing about the [TS]

  about the Joker's the Joker's demeanor i [TS]

  would just say I think the Joker doesn't [TS]

  have it together that's the impression I [TS]

  get here as he's nuts right and he [TS]

  doesn't have it together and you see [TS]

  that in several episodes that we watched [TS]

  he doesn't have together [TS]

  I like that I like that more than and [TS]

  also the Jack Nicholson's Joker in the [TS]

  in Batman 99 is similarly just nuts and [TS]

  is actually his it's actually his great [TS]

  flaw it's not only that he's crazy and [TS]

  and does these crazy things but it's [TS]

  also he's crazy and that's going to be [TS]

  his downfall and you could argue that [TS]

  like the heath ledger performances as [TS]

  the joker that that guy is much more [TS]

  together and and then and and just like [TS]

  it's like he's got a stick but he's [TS]

  really just a a murderer who's got a [TS]

  stick and I don't feel that way with [TS]

  this joker this joker is you know he's [TS]

  Looney he just wants to have it like the [TS]

  Riddler right he just kinda wants to [TS]

  play and that's good I like that I like [TS]

  that I think that's a good a fun Joker [TS]

  and also makes it more palatable but he [TS]

  keeps coming back because of course he's [TS]

  gonna keep coming back [TS]

  I actually think that the fact that it's [TS]

  for children and that they have to imply [TS]

  things rather than showing them makes [TS]

  the children even scarier I mean you [TS]

  know it would be scary the Joker [TS]

  outright killed Charlie but when he's [TS]

  like oh I'm gonna keep track of you I'm [TS]

  never gonna let you go you're gonna owe [TS]

  me a favor your imagination starts [TS]

  wondering you know what's what's he [TS]

  gonna ask for [TS]

  yeah it makes it more powerful because [TS]

  it's left up to your imagination it's [TS]

  that occurs I think throughout the [TS]

  series and it's one of the things I love [TS]

  about it that they they use they let [TS]

  your imagination fill in the gaps and it [TS]

  makes it even better than if they've [TS]

  been able to show it outright war greed [TS]

  everybody if you enjoyed this episode i [TS]

  want to remind you about another podcast [TS]

  in the incomparable network cartoon cast [TS]

  it's all about animation featuring [TS]

  christina warren and micah sergeant [TS]

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  incomparable dot-com / cartoon cast [TS]

  they've already posted 9 episodes and [TS]

  they're more on the way about a lot of [TS]

  great animated material while I'm [TS]

  talking to you let me also tell you [TS]

  sophomore lit has been added to our [TS]

  network it's a great podcast where [TS]

  people discuss revisiting books that [TS]

  they read in high school and college [TS]

  it's a lot of fun [TS]

  there's also our new podcast about the [TS]

  musical Hamilton pod for him different [TS]

  panels every week discussing one track [TS]

  from the musical and if you haven't [TS]

  listened to the incomparable game show [TS]

  yet please give it a try a lot of the [TS]

  people that you hear on our various [TS]

  other podcast playing games every other [TS]

  week huge amount of fun it's one of my [TS]

  favorite things that we're doing and of [TS]

  course there's a new season of total [TS]

  party kill starting now as well and [TS]

  finally check out our facebook group [TS]

  it's great you have to ask to be invited [TS]

  to join but we will approve you as soon [TS]

  as you ask go to slash [TS]

  groups / incomparable pod for the [TS]

  incomparable Zeppelin hanger facebook [TS]

  group [TS]

  Tony you get your next to give us a [TS]

  two-parter about kill her computer [TS]

  yep so heart of steel parts one part two [TS]

  on my list those are episodes 38-39 [TS]

  these are this is a kind of terrifying [TS]

  to partner where there's basically an [TS]

  evil computer that is turning out [TS]

  replicants of people dependence [TS]

  duplicates are genetically distinct from [TS]

  replicants i will tell you I probably [TS]

  saw i saw this show as a twelve-year-old [TS]

  was totally creeped out by it i don't [TS]

  think i saw blade runner and problem [TS]

  till probably like nine or ten years [TS]

  later in college was like oh yeah that [TS]

  was like you have either the guy who [TS]

  creates a computer is is what William [TS]

  Sanderson who is in his Sebastian and [TS]

  Blade Runner you also may know him as [TS]

  Larry from new heart but yeah that's the [TS]

  reference sure sure Jason they're [TS]

  actually it says it's a double reference [TS]

  because he named Karl Rossum yeah [TS]

  apec wrote Rossum's Universal robots [TS]

  which was the first ever play that was [TS]

  the first ever use the word robot so [TS]

  it's really a triple reference random to [TS]

  Wayne's license plate reads are you are [TS]

  yeah the name of the place oh yeah yeah [TS]

  i was going to add that uh actually the [TS]

  aesthetic of this particular two-parter [TS]

  when i started watching at this time and [TS]

  you know older age I realized this it's [TS]

  basically like there's a lot here that's [TS]

  basically like a Hitchcock movie like [TS]

  needs invasion of the Body Snatchers and [TS]

  again this is an episode that feat that [TS]

  features heavily and works heavily on [TS]

  Bruce Wayne on Batman right because [TS]

  they're all trying to be like oh let's [TS]

  see if Bruce Wayne's involve stuff gets [TS]

  stolen from him i have to also say my [TS]

  favorite one of my favorite moments [TS]

  involves Bruce Wayne you know the [TS]

  security guards being like you should [TS]

  stay in the Security office yeah wait [TS]

  it's too dangerous and you all good i [TS]

  have happened to install a secret [TS]

  elevator in this corner of the security [TS]

  of just in case I ever got like every [TS]

  corner of that building as that all [TS]

  elevators are load-bearing elevators [TS]

  I think this might be the first time in [TS]

  the series that anybody else figures out [TS]

  that Bruce Wayne is Batman and what they [TS]

  don't count on is that Bruce Wayne is as [TS]

  formidable an opponent is bad right [TS]

  exactly that's the cliffhanger at the [TS]

  end of the first episode is yeah Bruce [TS]

  Wayne is Batman i sent his computer [TS]

  start he gets taken over by the back [TS]

  computer which has been taken over by [TS]

  hardac the supercomputer [TS]

  super-intelligent AI computer created by [TS]

  william Sanderson's a kind of how like [TS]

  about Girardi is very how like very how [TS]

  like yeah [TS]

  visually I mean the whole series takes [TS]

  the the max and dave fleischer superman [TS]

  cartoons from the fifties a big visual [TS]

  influence so ya q really comes out in [TS]

  this which yeah this is it so fly sure [TS]

  Superman throughout I thought but [TS]

  special yeah that's through the whole [TS]

  series yes but there's this one [TS]

  especially the robots [TS]

  I like hardened steel I thought it was I [TS]

  thought it was fun i thought the idea of [TS]

  a two-parter that you essentially get a [TS]

  you get an hour-long TV show basically [TS]

  by break by breaking it into the you got [TS]

  killer robot duplicates and stuff and [TS]

  maligned and let's not forget to mention [TS]

  the first appearance in the series of [TS]

  barbar Gordon I was going to say yes [TS]

  played here by melissa gilbert yeah as a [TS]

  12 as a twelve-year-old boy such a crush [TS]

  on Barbara hard to say [TS]

  yeah yeah she's she was suspicious when [TS]

  her father was replaced in acceleration [TS]

  Rome I don't know why she's hurtin and [TS]

  she's active and she has agency and she [TS]

  like yeah well i mean granted my dad [TS]

  came back in and like smacked my am far [TS]

  better clue and i loved it i love the [TS]

  detail with a teddy bear that's that's [TS]

  checkups teddy bear [TS]

  yeah it's it's introduced you know in [TS]

  her person and I was worried that like [TS]

  this would infantile eyes the character [TS]

  but then she mentions that it's [TS]

  something her dad brought along and [TS]

  picks up the bear and blushes it not [TS]

  only makes her a stronger character it [TS]

  makes Gordon a sweeter and a deeper [TS]

  character and Jim Gordon is great and [TS]

  the steps in this whole series i love [TS]

  this vision of Jim cord [TS]

  yeah having watched outside of our [TS]

  assigned reading I had to watch the back [TS]

  row origin episodes will be reached [TS]

  returns in the back row origin episodes [TS]

  briefly so yeah the the consistency the [TS]

  attention to detail that they maintain [TS]

  is great and I noticed that this was one [TS]

  of the rare episodes of the series [TS]

  written by a woman which is probably one [TS]

  of the reasons why Barbara Gordon is [TS]

  portrayed so intelligently and so [TS]

  competently which is awesome [TS]

  this episode and kind of leaves me cold [TS]

  which is weird because there's a ton of [TS]

  great stuff about it the weird crab-like [TS]

  motions the robots the whole elevator [TS]

  sequence Barbara Gordon the the miyazaki [TS]

  like designs but for some reason this [TS]

  this was my least favorite of the ones [TS]

  we watched yeah the weird to breathe [TS]

  it's a robot who is also a briefcase [TS]

  oh yeah that was pretty great I know [TS]

  what Jason like Jason likes robots yeah [TS]

  the season where Ernestine where where [TS]

  you get the guys who are the the [TS]

  duplicates who try to you know [TS]

  assimilate Bruce Wayne and do the like [TS]

  spider crawl thing with the rotating [TS]

  head [TS]

  yeah that is still sleepy though yeah [TS]

  that was to my freaky as a [TS]

  twelve-year-old oh man i just want to [TS]

  see the episode about the Wayne [TS]

  industries janitor who accidentally [TS]

  discovers the secret elevator in the [TS]

  security [TS]

  yeah yeah my I just touched the file [TS]

  cabinet if you don't have the bat ring [TS]

  or whatever it just doesn't open so you [TS]

  would never know unless you got bruises [TS]

  special bat you to the point about being [TS]

  mature earlier and about things you can [TS]

  show and can't show its kind of no no [TS]

  pun intended shocking when they kill [TS]

  Bullock right and you're like whoa like [TS]

  oh my god they threw him into this thing [TS]

  and and obviously Barbara especially [TS]

  who's you know helps in basically does [TS]

  that is is a gas at what she's done when [TS]

  she think she's killed you know Harvey [TS]

  Bullock and of course it turns out to be [TS]

  a robot that means a little cavalier [TS]

  about that guys like was it like its [TS]

  Clayface in disguise or something but he [TS]

  has no qualms about tossing Harvey [TS]

  Bullock into a giant spotlight well I [TS]

  mean you have you met Harvey Bullock I [TS]

  mean is that the Harvey Harvey is [TS]

  another great character and i love it [TS]

  because he's a total jerk but he's also [TS]

  basically a good guy you know he has [TS]

  good motives he wants to do good things [TS]

  he just disagrees with that man and he's [TS]

  personally obnoxious but that doesn't [TS]

  mean he's a bad cop right [TS]

  headcanon Batman can tell the difference [TS]

  between our people look in the horrible [TS]

  and replicate by smell alone soap opera [TS]

  Barbara rescues Batman right she goes [TS]

  down to the building's gonna blow up and [TS]

  she helps him help them out which shows [TS]

  her her mettle as a future here are [TS]

  right right here [TS]

  not that she's made of metal she's not a [TS]

  robot they'll a great groundwork here [TS]

  for her as bad Carol and and its really [TS]

  it makes sense then later on when she [TS]

  decides to do that right because right [TS]

  now you're always going to put down [TS]

  there [TS]

  yeah yeah I i love that touches the end [TS]

  where it's like you know that was a [TS]

  little dangerous yeah I can't have fun [TS]

  yeah we we need to move through the rest [TS]

  of these because we have a lot more [TS]

  still to talk about the next one is a [TS]

  regular episode if your social so smart [TS]

  why are you rich which is said in green [TS]

  speckles yep another evil CEO creates a [TS]

  supervillain is awesome it's like open [TS]

  chemical baths and CEOs who are just too [TS]

  greedy leading causes of built village [TS]

  creators this is funny because Bruce [TS]

  Wayne is thinking of buying this company [TS]

  and and he apparently a while doing his [TS]

  due diligence he discovers that they've [TS]

  cheated the Riddler out of his royalties [TS]

  and the Riddler's really mad and I i [TS]

  love the riddles Riddler is my favorite [TS]

  Batman villain up because he attempts to [TS]

  thwart or challenge Batman with with [TS]

  puzzles and mysteries and those are [TS]

  things that I personally enjoy and I [TS]

  like I mean I think I like the quality [TS]

  of the puzzles that he presents Batman [TS]

  within this I think there are pretty [TS]

  consistently amusing or clever or both [TS]

  so I around a big fan of the road i [TS]

  think the Riddler only appears and maybe [TS]

  three episodes and the entire animated [TS]

  series and is that it yeah yeah but [TS]

  those episodes really stand out they had [TS]

  far more interesting villains to play [TS]

  with [TS]

  I mean what's the Riddler but just sort [TS]

  of like a cut-rate Joker I mean I like [TS]

  to love them so rob him [TS]

  no no but i'm saying compared to say mr. [TS]

  freeze or racial ghoul or poison ivy or [TS]

  I mean you can't go through the whole [TS]

  list is child but John Glover john [TS]

  galvers screen Riddler's great [TS]

  yeah and I don't know it's it's not like [TS]

  he at least in this series I don't think [TS]

  that the Riddler and the Joker all that [TS]

  comfortable the Joker yes he creates [TS]

  some puzzles and some mysteries but the [TS]

  rivers on this whole other level I mean [TS]

  this [TS]

  yes this this episode shows just that [TS]

  this man is brilliant and even though [TS]

  he's brilliant he is not world wise [TS]

  enough to take care of himself and [TS]

  therefore is denied of the money he [TS]

  should have a node and therefore goes [TS]

  over the edge and turns himself into [TS]

  into the Riddler I'll liked this episode [TS]

  quite a bit not only because of the [TS]

  river [TS]

  but also because of Robin because i'm [TS]

  i'm a bit of a Robin fan you know you [TS]

  guys crushed on Batgirl when you were [TS]

  kids i crush them right but he's really [TS]

  bad at video games though [TS]

  Yeah Yeah right arm atari games but he's [TS]

  smart enough to know he's able to solve [TS]

  some of the riddles that Batman you know [TS]

  doesn't realize yeah he it shows a good [TS]

  team going on in this episode once they [TS]

  get going and I like that I like that [TS]

  the Robin thing is well and he solves [TS]

  some of the puzzles and that you know [TS]

  again Batman uses smarts to basically [TS]

  break the rules of the game and win [TS]

  yeah Jack's they have floating hand of [TS]

  fate and flies it like a sort of flying [TS]

  surfboard kind of thing and go sheets [TS]

  goes to the center of the maze so many [TS]

  safety violations in this in my hand [TS]

  part it is [TS]

  yeah Gotham Gotham City citizens are [TS]

  incredibly blasé about personal danger [TS]

  I mean that they go to amusement parks [TS]

  that are wildly dangerous and the harley [TS]

  and ivy episode later they openly could [TS]

  at harley quinn and poison ivy both of [TS]

  them they should you by sight [TS]

  yeah I also liked in this episode how [TS]

  dumb at the end you get similar to our [TS]

  device you get that bit at the end this [TS]

  time the revenge is not as obvious or [TS]

  judiciary I guess as it was but yet the [TS]

  the Riddler is terrifying this man who [TS]

  robbed him and is going to be terrifying [TS]

  for the rest of his life and that's a [TS]

  fairly powerful ending I think oh yeah [TS]

  really dark and creepy that's that is [TS]

  the thing that stuck with me for years [TS]

  after seeing this episode I like that [TS]

  I'm the economics of Batman which is [TS]

  that Wayne Enterprises buys competitor [TS]

  on this company and it brings jobs to [TS]

  Gotham City [TS]

  so apparently this is Bruce Wayne's [TS]

  business model is he he buys companies [TS]

  in other cities fires all the people [TS]

  move the intellectual property that [TS]

  Gotham and then hires people from Gotham [TS]

  to run them I guess [TS]

  ok whatever Bruce have whatever we have [TS]

  a rich guy you can do what you want [TS]

  anything forgot them yeah I guess bring [TS]

  jobs to the city it's important [TS]

  ok almost got him number 46 this is my [TS]

  favorite episode my face [TS]

  it's almost got him is the the premise [TS]

  of the episode there's a twist but the [TS]

  premise is that a bunch of Batman [TS]

  villains are just hanging out in a very [TS]

  sketchy pool hall playing poker and [TS]

  talking about the times they almost got [TS]

  Batman so it's great because it's almost [TS]

  like three many episodes in one so [TS]

  that's a great framing device and we get [TS]

  these little stories from the point of [TS]

  view of poison ivy the Joker the penguin [TS]

  and kind of a story from Killer Croc and [TS]

  to face to face to face yeah so i will [TS]

  never forget as I told to anyone who [TS]

  watched this episode emblazoned in my [TS]

  memory is the delivery of I throw a rock [TS]

  at everything you do is a big rock rock [TS]

  but then the twist and is a bad man and [TS]

  he did that was not to that was not [TS]

  Killer Croc Batman pretending to because [TS]

  I know which is a kind of mean of Batman [TS]

  you think better to pick even better [TS]

  well he figured out when boat when it [TS]

  was poker night apparently was the only [TS]

  way to save Catwoman when it's funny [TS]

  because if you watch the other episodes [TS]

  with killer croc he's actually not [TS]

  stupid so clearly Batman is playing his [TS]

  stupid because he assumes that all the [TS]

  rest of these guys think he's stupid [TS]

  yeah and some of the little stories they [TS]

  tell are just i think particularly [TS]

  over-the-top the penguin has the most [TS]

  bird tastic 148 of june is a very of [TS]

  doom he's got a cassowary he's got [TS]

  humming birds that are poisonous it's it [TS]

  is the most penguin that Batman uses a [TS]

  hummingbird to stab another yeah i mean [TS]

  to face steals of two million dollars [TS]

  into dollar bills [TS]

  yeah what benefit one and that one that [TS]

  one is sorry that the comics is down the [TS]

  giant penny the giant penny says okay [TS]

  it's even it's even more plausible than [TS]

  the comic book version is very this one [TS]

  of two episodes we watched I think all [TS]

  right sorry i watch the second one in [TS]

  which is also trapped beneath the dry [TS]

  quite yet [TS]

  it's not a penny it is the only way to [TS]

  stop toupees yeah that's right i love [TS]

  the attention to detail in this episode [TS]

  all the little things that how they open [TS]

  on the characters hands and you can tell [TS]

  so much about which one is the Joker [TS]

  twoface just by their hands you have the [TS]

  Joker pulling up an ace from his [TS]

  we have you see to face pouring [TS]

  half-and-half into his coffee [TS]

  I love holding onto to the the new faces [TS]

  always got here Suze yeah yeah yeah i [TS]

  love the Joker taking a look at two [TS]

  phases cards as he prepares pretends to [TS]

  wipe a tear from his eye and i love that [TS]

  this episode shows why the Joker's [TS]

  different from all the other villains [TS]

  when the Joker mentions what his plan is [TS]

  to do with Catwoman namely grinder up in [TS]

  turn into cat food all the other [TS]

  villains these dangerous criminals and [TS]

  psychopaths are shocked and horrified [TS]

  disgusting mind and I i love that like [TS]

  the only human thing about the Joker in [TS]

  the series is that his commitment to [TS]

  being a total jerk [TS]

  that's the one real thing that humanizes [TS]

  him is that no matter what no matter who [TS]

  he's with he's going to be a jerk to [TS]

  them i also love the the episode in the [TS]

  when he saves Catwoman eventually in [TS]

  Harley's like you can only save you can [TS]

  only save your classic you can only save [TS]

  them or catch me and it's like I've got [TS]

  two hands [TS]

  yep and I drink wine from Harley you [TS]

  know I had a cat once they don't always [TS]

  land on their feet and you think about [TS]

  it for a moment you realize oh my god [TS]

  harley quinn killed her cat also poker [TS]

  at like the animation this episode much [TS]

  better and my personal favorite shot is [TS]

  when the could be killer croc is [TS]

  revealed to be Batman and it's the lamps [TS]

  swinging yes so wet are so good [TS]

  yep such a good and again without like [TS]

  you know you don't have to state it [TS]

  outright right like there's this is it [TS]

  subtle it's nice i like it you know this [TS]

  episode is perfect I've seen whole [TS]

  seasons of television that aren't as up [TS]

  entertaining as this one episode agreed [TS]

  and it has the nice tag at the end where [TS]

  Catwoman is rescued and kind of makes [TS]

  her pitch to Batman about how they could [TS]

  do wonderful things together and he [TS]

  disappears and she goes to how much got [TS]

  him yeah so I put that i put the watch [TS]

  list in just in basically chronological [TS]

  order but i would probably like I was [TS]

  trying to get somebody into batman the [TS]

  animated series this is the episode [TS]

  animated series this is the episode [TS]

  let's start with that because i don't [TS]

  think there's any reason you can't just [TS]

  start with this one and it's so [TS]

  delightful it is i remember watching it [TS]

  for the first time thinking oh they ran [TS]

  out of money they're doing a clip show [TS]

  and then thinking wait a minute i [TS]

  haven't seen any of these grounds oh my [TS]

  gosh so next is i am the night Tony so I [TS]

  am the night is an extremely dark [TS]

  episode of batman the animated series i [TS]

  think it's like the it's the the this [TS]

  happens in a couple episodes where [TS]

  there's some you know it's the [TS]

  anniversary of his parents definitely [TS]

  has to go to crime alley and place the [TS]

  the roses and basically Batman is [TS]

  dealing with that at the same time that [TS]

  there is a shootout between a gangster [TS]

  and the police and Commissioner Gordon [TS]

  gets severely wounded by the jazzman it [TS]

  was just a gangster with a lot of guns [TS]

  but Batman it does basically have to [TS]

  like do this like soul-searching like [TS]

  what is the point of all this like do I [TS]

  want to keep being Batman kind of kind [TS]

  of question which is a pretty dark and [TS]

  heavy for a kids show right [TS]

  I i thought this was great this is the [TS]

  first 1i watched when we did the rewatch [TS]

  and I was just like man this is a kids [TS]

  show like yeah it has you know there's [TS]

  there's fairly complex not just ideas [TS]

  and thoughts in here where Batman's [TS]

  considering you know giving stuff up and [TS]

  I'm really making a difference but like [TS]

  some of the dialogue in here too I feel [TS]

  like they're like I mean they're quoting [TS]

  like philosophers and stuff to be like [TS]

  him and Leslie to each other and and [TS]

  it's it's kind of a samsung i can [TS]

  remember the like you know how deep and [TS]

  and thoughtful so much of this was i [TS]

  really i love this episode it's kind of [TS]

  like a polar opposite of almost got him [TS]

  but i think it may be one of the other [TS]

  really best episodes of the show [TS]

  absolutely except for the Batman helps a [TS]

  troubled teen storyline which feels like [TS]

  something the network shoved and leaves [TS]

  leaves a Korean alone do you know best [TS]

  michael j fox yeah totally during [TS]

  michael j fox a lot of things that this [TS]

  in series does a little and big ways is [TS]

  setting up that you think one thing but [TS]

  it turns out that the opposite happens [TS]

  so they set up the seth green character [TS]

  to be a bit of a problem a small-time [TS]

  a small-time petty thief and Batman's [TS]

  responses to dump him at the mission [TS]

  that Leslie works out or if i'm [TS]

  remembering that correctly and then so [TS]

  the next time Batman season [TS]

  Batman makes the mistake and assumes the [TS]

  kid is still trouble did only to [TS]

  discover that guess what he has made a [TS]

  difference or by his actions [TS]

  they've made a difference in this kid's [TS]

  life so I actually like that I like that [TS]

  a lot that you know you big and small [TS]

  the ways you know Batman can save an [TS]

  entire city he can save the entire [TS]

  planet [TS]

  you can also make a difference in this [TS]

  one kid's life and not even realize that [TS]

  he did it and the value is that at the [TS]

  end what you get is you get this is the [TS]

  thing that turns Batman around and I [TS]

  think that's kinda kinda nice that [TS]

  punching people is not the thing that [TS]

  that gives bad man his kind of renewed [TS]

  purpose it's like this is a very human [TS]

  things like a look at you know I I do i [TS]

  do make a difference and I can change [TS]

  people slices and it's a little sappy [TS]

  but I I get why they did it that that [TS]

  it's not what you expect where he's like [TS]

  you know again I punched you in the face [TS]

  now I feel much better about myself and [TS]

  my job [TS]

  yeah i mean i think some of the stuff [TS]

  that you know the doubting you he always [TS]

  talking to Robin and saying like they [TS]

  sell t-shirts of me like I've become a [TS]

  cliche like that just that idea is like [TS]

  eight you know and it talks to the whole [TS]

  Batman mythos over all right like is he [TS]

  a cliché as far as hero you know comic [TS]

  book characters and all that and I to a [TS]

  certain extent maybe but like it is [TS]

  interesting for you know a character [TS]

  within the show to think about that [TS]

  hey anytime I an animated series [TS]

  theoretically for kids quotes Nietzsche [TS]

  it's a an interesting episode that is [TS]

  what i say i love Kevin Conroy delivery [TS]

  of you are a hero gym [TS]

  oh yeah so get your right there one and [TS]

  this this again speaks to the maturity [TS]

  of the writing in that you know this [TS]

  isn't just saying outlook superhero [TS]

  beats a bad guys right [TS]

  he it's asking the kids who are watching [TS]

  to think about their this hero on [TS]

  multiple levels in multiple dimensions [TS]

  to say okay is a cliche or to even be [TS]

  evened out the idea that he's a good [TS]

  idea right that you know that's amazing [TS]

  and then to have [TS]

  you know you're a hero to gym right to [TS]

  say that [TS]

  yeah perfectly normal mortal human being [TS]

  over here is just as much of a hero [TS]

  which she got that speaks to me as the [TS]

  viewer goes again going to the [TS]

  aspirational part it's like it's okay [TS]

  and it's okay to have doubts and it's [TS]

  okay to work through them [TS]

  well plus there's the element of you [TS]

  know and this goes back around to the [TS]

  idea of a mortal Batman and I add that [TS]

  another line that I remember just [TS]

  verbatim you know from watching this [TS]

  episode 20 20 years ago was the you know [TS]

  sooner or later I'll go down and might [TS]

  be the Joker twoface or just some punk [TS]

  who gets lucky and you have the ideal [TS]

  like yeah I mean sooner or later he's [TS]

  gonna slip up and make a mistake because [TS]

  he's only human and that to me is kind [TS]

  of fascinating you to look at the [TS]

  mortality of our superheroes and and you [TS]

  know especially in a character is [TS]

  predicated on a loss and grief I think [TS]

  it's fascinating to really think about [TS]

  that because so often are you know our [TS]

  comic book heroes are treated as either [TS]

  immortal I can't be hurt or treated as [TS]

  well they doesn't matter if they're hurt [TS]

  or killed its comic books will just [TS]

  bring them back to life and this is a [TS]

  Batman who is Prue you know preoccupied [TS]

  with the idea of sooner or later I will [TS]

  fail did I make a difference in the [TS]

  overall the city [TS]

  yeah i was going to say for out to make [TS]

  them really quick to Nathan's point [TS]

  there's a Robert Frost quote in this [TS]

  episode because he does love Leslie he [TS]

  has promises to keep [TS]

  see kids you don't even you don't even [TS]

  need to go to school to study kids from [TS]

  that man what a lot [TS]

  yep this is the the Common Core provided [TS]

  by the church of Batman [TS]

  oh you know it's good Batman left behind [TS]

  alright moving on to harley and ivy [TS]

  Tony alright well this is another [TS]

  episode that is a not as much about [TS]

  Batman as people in the Batman world you [TS]

  know kind of one of the big questions [TS]

  about harley quinn is why did she put up [TS]

  with all that crap from the Joker who [TS]

  seems to be not the greatest romantic [TS]

  partner and so the premises episodes you [TS]

  know basically what happens if she [TS]

  finally has done with his crap and walks [TS]

  out on him after a fight and the answer [TS]

  is she falls in with poison ivy and they [TS]

  paint the town red [TS]

  and it's just i think it's it's a fun [TS]

  exploration of that character I know [TS]

  that that's a relationship then gets [TS]

  kind of ported over into the comics and [TS]

  it's fun to see I mean I think there are [TS]

  other episodes later where we got even a [TS]

  little bit more [TS]

  hardly i think it's later we get her [TS]

  backstory for real but I i like the [TS]

  episodes you know I like Batman a lot [TS]

  but i like the episodes that are you [TS]

  know Batman is a little bit more in the [TS]

  background that others this is another [TS]

  Paul Dini episode and i think it's it's [TS]

  fun to explore you know what would it be [TS]

  like for two women supervillains to just [TS]

  like you know Cara Gosselin apart [TS]

  because which you know is very [TS]

  frustrating both to Batman and the Joker [TS]

  hilariously yes seriously headline after [TS]

  headline of july seventh and other [TS]

  things the players is totally getting [TS]

  away with because they are super [TS]

  competent team i like it when there's [TS]

  people that are that are good at their [TS]

  jobs and they like it and that's that's [TS]

  Harley Quinn and poison ivy riviera so [TS]

  having not been exposed to a lot of [TS]

  Harley Quinn what I found amusing about [TS]

  this character is that she's kind of [TS]

  like a an old-time movies dame like [TS]

  she's she's she's got the she's got the [TS]

  kind of new yorky accent and she's like [TS]

  separate patois yeah and she's got the [TS]

  like she's very credulous about things [TS]

  that she should not be credulous about [TS]

  you just like to go yeah like she called [TS]

  like the Joker she's like well I gotta [TS]

  go you know she's like he's got he's [TS]

  he's plotting and she's just having a [TS]

  phone call with him [TS]

  it's kind of adorable that she's just uh [TS]

  you know she only had seems to have the [TS]

  one level but I do also like that the [TS]

  fact that poison ivy [TS]

  you know she poison ivy have this good a [TS]

  good time but they can kind of clicks in [TS]

  a way where is the Joker's just so mean [TS]

  to her so I i liked this episode to get [TS]

  poison ivy says at one point almost got [TS]

  him she's immune to the pain and [TS]

  suffering of others but she really cares [TS]

  about Harley which makes her a better [TS]

  character and she's actually comes out [TS]

  and calls hardly a victim which you know [TS]

  is pretty huge when you think about it [TS]

  very delicately the balance is [TS]

  incredible but yes it's pointing out [TS]

  domestic abuse domestic violence and and [TS]

  and yet you know Eva well there's [TS]

  subtext all over the places i remember [TS]

  as a teenager wondering where Harley and [TS]

  I these pants had gone when they [TS]

  hang around the house commitment but [TS]

  never having seen anything like that in [TS]

  the cartoon before and yet when I go [TS]

  back and watch it now it's not [TS]

  grotesquely exploitative they're just [TS]

  hanging out there just being pounds [TS]

  that's what girls when they're hanging [TS]

  out by themselves yeah haha i was gonna [TS]

  say i like to particularly ending where [TS]

  they're trying to get away and the [TS]

  proclaimed loudly no man can take us [TS]

  prisoner and then I believe me Montoya [TS]

  shows following monday [TS]

  yeah and it's great like to have and i [TS]

  will say I just to say like about this [TS]

  and I think overall I feel like a lot of [TS]

  the portrayal of both women and [TS]

  minorities in this show is kind of ahead [TS]

  of its time and I think especially in [TS]

  the current environment where we were [TS]

  very hyper aware of that should be hyper [TS]

  aware of that i think this show is is [TS]

  subtle and effective in the way it does [TS]

  that I was noticing him watching other [TS]

  episodes as i went back how often the [TS]

  background characters are multicolored [TS]

  of both genders even just like the cops [TS]

  driving by in some episodes you know you [TS]

  got a lot of female cops got a lot of [TS]

  you know persons of color in in variety [TS]

  of roles across this series and I think [TS]

  that's fantastic it really feels [TS]

  represented as a as a kid watching this [TS]

  certainly I feel like I internalize that [TS]

  and so you know in some ways looking at [TS]

  the media that we see it today and [TS]

  looking back in 20 years I feel like [TS]

  sometimes we were out of ourselves 20 [TS]

  years ago when I i love Renee Montoya [TS]

  and especially later in the comics [TS]

  seeing her as in central figure in [TS]

  Gotham central that was that was [TS]

  wonderful i'm still waiting for the the [TS]

  animated version of her is the question [TS]

  someday yep oh yeah I'm all for it ok so [TS]

  that brings us to the demons quest parts [TS]

  1 & 2 viewers of arrow may may be amused [TS]

  by this and some characters that got [TS]

  ported over to arrow but hand-raised [TS]

  appropriately and plotting created it's [TS]

  a rate racial google mixed so tell us no [TS]

  demons quest part 1 into so this is not [TS]

  the first appearance of racial but it's [TS]

  the kind of like the big two-part uh its [TS]

  arc that he gets in a [TS]

  Batman the Animated Series the League of [TS]

  Shadows I believe that's what they're [TS]

  called because maybe calling the League [TS]

  of Assassins is too scary for 11 year [TS]

  olds so they had previously appeared in [TS]

  an episode there's a count vertigo [TS]

  steals about a gun on there's a very [TS]

  Hitchcock ass ex episode where Batman [TS]

  has to like like closes eyes and fight [TS]

  people's to avoid being losing his his [TS]

  powers due to vertigo but anyway in this [TS]

  episode [TS]

  this is another episode that i really [TS]

  like because the show has very different [TS]

  tones at times like I like that heart of [TS]

  steel is this like science fiction [TS]

  horror episode and this is almost like [TS]

  you're kind of like Indiana Jones [TS]

  globe-trotting episode / James Bond [TS]

  slashing well that's why I kept thinking [TS]

  where / Richard Kipling adventure yeah [TS]

  where Batman is theoretically looking [TS]

  for he ends up kind of globe-trotting [TS]

  because robin has been abducted and [TS]

  Rachel shows up and says my daughter [TS]

  Talia who you met before has also been [TS]

  abducted [TS]

  let's team up' included trot around the [TS]

  globe and see what we can find out but [TS]

  you'll know if people who are in any way [TS]

  from the right Batman or arrow will not [TS]

  be surprised to find out that rachel is [TS]

  the actual villain he is not just [TS]

  someone looking to try to find his [TS]

  daughter and he's in fact he's actually [TS]

  testing batman because he believes [TS]

  Batman is capable of being his [TS]

  replacement so we get a bunch of [TS]

  globe-trotting we get appearances of the [TS]

  Lazarus Pit and we get this kind of epic [TS]

  showdown where they they're fighting [TS]

  next to this Lazarus Pit and there's a [TS]

  there's an evil satellite that's going [TS]

  to destroy the world so this is you know [TS]

  the the Joker is kind of like the [TS]

  classic Batman rifle butt in the [TS]

  animated series ratio goal is like the [TS]

  biggest villain I think that Batman feet [TS]

  death has to encounter in terms of he's [TS]

  basically like this [TS]

  eco-terrorists that's almost successful [TS]

  yeah yeah so this is I like this I mean [TS]

  this episode feels like like an action [TS]

  movie that happens to be 2 22 minute [TS]

  animated this one struck me is the most [TS]

  comic book of all the episodes we [TS]

  watched partly because this was the one [TS]

  instance at least in our episodes and [TS]

  possibly in the whole series where [TS]

  Batman saves the entire world and [TS]

  there's no justice league around yet [TS]

  helping him [TS]

  well that's that's in part because it's [TS]

  based on [TS]

  the comics and it's written by dennis [TS]

  o'neil the guy who wrote the comics and [TS]

  created ratio goal on the apparent this [TS]

  was actually my least favorite of the [TS]

  selection it for whatever reason this [TS]

  one particularly felt like it was kind [TS]

  of padded kind of drawn out that if they [TS]

  weren't trying to feel like to entire [TS]

  episodes that it didn't need to be as [TS]

  long as it was you know poor Robin is [TS]

  just you know it gets abducted then he's [TS]

  pretty much baggage the rest of the way [TS]

  so this one didn't keep my attention the [TS]

  way the others did for some reason I'm [TS]

  on the other side from Jana and this 1i [TS]

  really Rachel google is one of my [TS]

  favorites and I really like him here [TS]

  especially David Warner from yes a great [TS]

  long time after I love his delivery [TS]

  I love the testing the fact that [TS]

  immediately he's like oh yeah I totally [TS]

  figured out you're Bruce Wayne by the [TS]

  way because it's really not that hard [TS]

  yeah i went to basically who can afford [TS]

  all the crap that man has it and I have [TS]

  a description of you and basically I [TS]

  just ran some cross-referencing I yeah [TS]

  the plan is comic book being [TS]

  over-the-top and I think that's why I [TS]

  definitely feels James Bondish to me [TS]

  especially at the end with the [TS]

  satellites during the world i agree [TS]

  about that the stakes are a little more [TS]

  heightened than a lot of the other [TS]

  episodes but it does feel to me it comes [TS]

  off feeling epic and a lot of places [TS]

  especially when they sort of there's [TS]

  both this go back into this like battle [TS]

  of the wits going on between between [TS]

  Batman and Rachel goal as batman's like [TS]

  one think this guy's not on the level [TS]

  but I don't want to let him into that [TS]

  and Rachel goals testing him and all [TS]

  that back and forth and I really enjoy [TS]

  that I enjoy evil Rachel go after get [TS]

  certain to Lazarus Pit just jumps out [TS]

  all buff laughing maniacally it's pretty [TS]

  great [TS]

  it's not an episode without problems [TS]

  there's definitely uh you know tutored [TS]

  not retract put a dent in my previous [TS]

  statement about the representations of [TS]

  minorities and people of color this one [TS]

  gets a little little cliche there [TS]

  yeah possibly kind of offensive but for [TS]

  Helen Slater doesn't get to do a whole [TS]

  lot is Talia know she's sister does get [TS]

  to snap ratio go out of his kids crazy [TS]

  coma which I thought was a nice little [TS]

  moment of agency real character but yea [TS]

  mostly she's just hey I'm standing [TS]

  around looking hot and slinky and doing [TS]

  nothing [TS]

  yeah the the boob window unfortunate [TS]

  they will be worse the window this side [TS]

  of power girl i guess and also there is [TS]

  a painful moments sisters you have [TS]

  painful moment when a when he's trying [TS]

  to get Rick supposedly recruit Batman to [TS]

  be the new you know his replacement [TS]

  because he's dying accepted because the [TS]

  Lazarus Pit he's not dying and he's like [TS]

  no I must have a new man to replace me [TS]

  and it's like I'm yeah you had to say a [TS]

  new man [TS]

  your daughter is standing right there [TS]

  she seemed she's got a lot going on but [TS]

  it's like nope not gonna do that all [TS]

  she's got is her yeah she's just there [TS]

  to to reference Batman and to have to [TS]

  look pretty and it's it's unfortunate [TS]

  gap in keeping the one of the better [TS]

  places i think that the arrow version of [TS]

  the story did which was actually have [TS]

  the daughter be like why not me [TS]

  yeah and there's no good answer why not [TS]

  write that means like yeah you are very [TS]

  competent you should probably do this [TS]

  not not the hero [TS]

  yeah at least at least this version of [TS]

  racial goal seems to actually have a [TS]

  like an interest in an agenda other than [TS]

  just the perpetuation of his own secret [TS]

  societies yeah no he's just interested [TS]

  in the world [TS]

  David Warner super charismatic it works [TS]

  really well on that on that score I [TS]

  liked it when he's dying dying except [TS]

  you know the date that you put them in [TS]

  the Lazarus Pit he's got a moment that's [TS]

  very reminded me very much of a scene in [TS]

  Star Trek six when he's done he was like [TS]

  don't let it in this way Batman but uh [TS]

  but he's really good and you know [TS]

  yeah the v his some of his henchmen are [TS]

  super stereotypy but i do like the fact [TS]

  that he is so sharp and and charismatic [TS]

  and such a really interesting villain in [TS]

  a way that the over-the-top you know a [TS]

  lot of the old-timey villains and DC's [TS]

  got more of those and Marvel just [TS]

  because if it was it is older where [TS]

  there's like a super simple concept that [TS]

  is the entire concept for that villain [TS]

  you see this in a flash a lot [TS]

  one of the things I like about racial [TS]

  cool is that he's not that he's like [TS]

  he's a mastermind is this thing he's not [TS]

  like telling jokes or turning things [TS]

  into ice [TS]

  he's just super smart and kind of [TS]

  deranged an evil and i like that i like [TS]

  his depth of character [TS]

  yeah he's not going to try and kill you [TS]

  with a giant penny right before he's [TS]

  trying to save the world [TS]

  yeah poor or ask you a series of riddles [TS]

  or or right play a practical joke on you [TS]

  he's that's not what he's done is he's [TS]

  gonna he's gonna reset the world to a [TS]

  better state where the human population [TS]

  is you know only ten percent of what it [TS]

  is now that's right i'm with dan on this [TS]

  one is even with the problems with some [TS]

  of the characters i I just I love the [TS]

  scale of it and the scope of it and yeah [TS]

  if this were every episode I wouldn't [TS]

  like it as much but it's the only one [TS]

  it's it's like this one little you know [TS]

  it's like see we can do the [TS]

  globe-trotting adventure and we can have [TS]

  the immortal villain who's insane in a [TS]

  different way and it at the time when i [TS]

  first thought I had never heard of [TS]

  racial ma'am either and I went out and I [TS]

  bought the tales of the demon trade [TS]

  paperback and just poured through all [TS]

  the stuff and went oh my god Danny [TS]

  O'Neil and then and that sort of led me [TS]

  through the 70 0 because I really hadn't [TS]

  followed the comic books at all and and [TS]

  so I i described got to discover this [TS]

  whole new realm of Batman stories in [TS]

  this whole new depth of that pan that I [TS]

  had no idea about so i will always liked [TS]

  this episode just for introducing me to [TS]

  that and and the denny o'neil and Neal [TS]

  Adams version of Batman alright so what [TS]

  did we learn about batman the animated [TS]

  series we walked we walked through um I [TS]

  if I'm curious well let me give you my [TS]

  report is a new viewer and then maybe [TS]

  we'll go around and everybody could say [TS]

  some last thing they love but maybe [TS]

  episode we didn't watch that you want to [TS]

  recommend i like I said I didn't like [TS]

  the first one but i liked the rest of [TS]

  them I thought it was really smart i [TS]

  love had the look of it i love that old [TS]

  style you know Fleischer Superman [TS]

  cartoon kind of influence great voice [TS]

  casting some [TS]

  using voice casting in hindsight you can [TS]

  really tell you know you look at the [TS]

  cast list like wow this is just amazing [TS]

  collection of people so yeah I thought [TS]

  it was really smart and fun and working [TS]

  in a format that kind of unforgiving [TS]

  right i mean to tell a complete story in [TS]

  22 minutes i can see why they do the two [TS]

  partners because that is really tough if [TS]

  you're gonna tackle this stuff to tell a [TS]

  story this fast and they pack a lot in [TS]

  its they're there they're very dense and [TS]

  during fun is the economics of [TS]

  storytelling in it are impressed you and [TS]

  I like that I like that at times it has [TS]

  a sense of humor to like that moment [TS]

  that we mentioned where Batman Batman [TS]

  laughs uh the he I the batman animated [TS]

  series that i watch the most is actually [TS]

  batman the brave and the bold because it [TS]

  was coming out at exactly the right age [TS]

  for my son to become obsessed with it [TS]

  and so I watched a lot of those and the [TS]

  thing I liked about that now is a much [TS]

  lighter lighter tone but the thing I [TS]

  loved about that series was Batman it [TS]

  can be very funny and not not [TS]

  necessarily in the campy Adam West way [TS]

  but in the very superdry Batman way [TS]

  where he seen it all he's a little bit [TS]

  weary and he can comment on the [TS]

  goings-on around him in a way that you [TS]

  know he's got he's so serious and the [TS]

  villains are also wild that he it makes [TS]

  room for a lot of really dry hilarious [TS]

  commentary and I love that about batman [TS]

  the brave and the bold but there is some [TS]

  of that here and every time I got [TS]

  something like that I just loved it [TS]

  because I feel like that's like we don't [TS]

  we don't we don't see that enough of [TS]

  Batman's ride commentary about all the [TS]

  stupid things that are going on around [TS]

  him and I enjoy it when when it happened [TS]

  so yeah I liked it as a return viewer [TS]

  RSA is a new viewer I who missed the [TS]

  first time around [TS]

  so that's my that's my take ok let's go [TS]

  around and if you've got any last [TS]

  thoughts and an episode that you love [TS]

  maybe that wasn't on Tony's Tony's [TS]

  excellent top 10 list [TS]

  David what do you think well I mean I [TS]

  love so many episodes but everyone David [TS]

  one well yeah I i will i will pick the [TS]

  two feature films because that man Mr [TS]

  Freeze of 0 is brilliant part of one [TS]

  didn't you understand [TS]

  i love the fact that mask of the [TS]

  phantasm gave my father nightmares I [TS]

  just like when we asked you to pick one [TS]

  episode and you can be moved to the [TS]

  sub-zero myself because David picks up [TS]

  the first 20 minutes of sub-zero Nathan [TS]

  what about you [TS]

  beware the Gray Ghost Batman has with an [TS]

  out-of-work actor who played his [TS]

  childhood superhero I know plate played [TS]

  by adding side west [TS]

  yes it's a beautiful performance it's [TS]

  moving it's funny [TS]

  it works on multiple levels it's maybe [TS]

  his best batman performance ever [TS]

  it's maybe Adam was best performance [TS]

  ever period Shannon um there's still so [TS]

  many ok I'm going weird with sideshow [TS]

  which is someone that features Killer [TS]

  Croc who in trying to escape Batman [TS]

  falls in with this group of circus [TS]

  freaks that you know are no longer with [TS]

  the circus and just trying to survive [TS]

  together and you know for a short brief [TS]

  moment of time killer croc has found his [TS]

  tribe and people that you know accept [TS]

  him for who he is don't judge him don't [TS]

  think he's horrifying you know and then [TS]

  of course you know Batman has to come [TS]

  and take him back because he was [TS]

  committing crimes when Batman was [TS]

  chasing him just do the way they explore [TS]

  from the side so many of these classic [TS]

  characters or introduce characters in [TS]

  such a way that they are [TS]

  multi-dimensional that there's more to [TS]

  them than just our than just being bad [TS]

  that some one of the things i love about [TS]

  this series damn about you how the one [TS]

  thing I friend forgot to mention overall [TS]

  that I really want to mention a couple [TS]

  things one I love the title cards not [TS]

  something you see done in a lot of other [TS]

  shows of this ilk they're beautifully [TS]

  animated and you get the writer and [TS]

  director like really upfront which I [TS]

  feel like it's something that was not [TS]

  also acknowledged and a lot of other [TS]

  animated shows of this era to just to [TS]

  take away like sort of your talk about [TS]

  the character of Batman upfront and I [TS]

  think for me again i internalized a lot [TS]

  of what was shown here this version of [TS]

  Batman in terms of like beyond the code [TS]

  of honor I think I think informed a lot [TS]

  of you know just personally like things [TS]

  that I think about like well there's [TS]

  justice and fair play like those are all [TS]

  really important qualities here in this [TS]

  Batman is not someone who has spent like [TS]

  constantly watching them to the edge [TS]

  this is someone who is has a strong code [TS]

  and it here's to it pretty much the [TS]

  whole way through with occasion you know [TS]

  couple minor doubts here and there but i [TS]

  think you know essentially always tries [TS]

  to do the right thing and that is that [TS]

  is what we look for in our heroes and in [TS]

  particular that's what informed you know [TS]

  my understanding of superheroes and [TS]

  heroes and generals well so i really [TS]

  appreciate that [TS]

  as for favorite episodes i already [TS]

  mentioned I'm a big bat girl fan so I [TS]

  actually watched shadow the bad parts 12 [TS]

  for this and I will say that those are [TS]

  personally I think one of my other [TS]

  favorite episode so love those two [TS]

  yes yeah they're they're great they're [TS]

  there one there one episode intense ok [TS]

  and Tony did you do you have a favorite [TS]

  episode that's not among the 10 that you [TS]

  yourself picked out my list i was [TS]

  heavily sedated toward episodes that are [TS]

  my favorite on the one that didn't make [TS]

  my list i would put a shadow the bat as [TS]

  that was the next on the list of the [TS]

  Damned picked it which is great [TS]

  the next one I probably would add to the [TS]

  list is more of a personal favorite for [TS]

  me i don't know if it has much broader [TS]

  appeal the man who killed Batman values [TS]

  yes Sid the squid who's kind of a [TS]

  nebbish incompetent get wannabe gangster [TS]

  appears to have inadvertently killed [TS]

  Batman and basically uh wins the [TS]

  adoration of all the other like hoods in [TS]

  Gotham but then gets like interrogated [TS]

  by Rupert thorne and then later abducted [TS]

  by the Joker who and who brings them to [TS]

  like a funeral for Batman who is [TS]

  outraged that not only is Batman dead [TS]

  but that's it the squid killed him [TS]

  spoiling this pedestal and not a moment [TS]

  of the Joker in the whole series yes [TS]

  broken it's beautiful [TS]

  yeah it is and it yeah and that is matt [TS]

  frewer the man behind max & erma's the [TS]

  voices of the squid and and let us not [TS]

  forget I've got that man in my base that [TS]

  would let Tony hates me so much for even [TS]

  mentioning it like that was not high [TS]

  it's ridiculous them that it's one of [TS]

  the unfortunate ones where it's like can [TS]

  you have something that appeals to kids [TS]

  that doesn't have kids in it so it's [TS]

  like a kid has to rescue Batman um it's [TS]

  and there's like a home alone sequence [TS]

  it I I the Church of Batman recognize it [TS]

  as a batman the animated series episode [TS]

  and we leave it at that [TS]

  it's Apocrypha alright well Tony how do [TS]

  you think we did have we do thank you [TS]

  for putting together rrr list here did [TS]

  we sufficiently praise Batman I think so [TS]

  thank you for sticking with you know I [TS]

  thought ten episodes was reasonable but [TS]

  I realized that was a significant [TS]

  understand undertaking so I appreciate [TS]

  that everybody did that I like that [TS]

  people had different favorite and least [TS]

  favorite on a list i feel like i did a [TS]

  good job at making a list that that [TS]

  there were once that people have very [TS]

  strong feelings about so that's that's [TS]

  good i'm sure we're going to get [TS]

  listener mail from people who are like [TS]

  why didn't you include XYZ nerds you're [TS]

  wrong haha that's what's really good I [TS]

  don't know a case can be made for the [TS]

  tooth for the two-faced episode the two [TS]

  days episode is net i have a list that [TS]

  goes I the original list was 20 episodes [TS]

  long was that [TS]

  yeah I would've added like Robins [TS]

  reckoning yeah that's ever happened to [TS]

  me but you guys literally made when the [TS]

  next level is so and that all i can say [TS]

  is only 20 i look forward to our [TS]

  forthcoming podcast random Batman you [TS]

  ready [TS]

  I can imagine with every episode of all [TS]

  Batman series animated and live-action [TS]

  plus the movies [TS]

  it's gonna be great look for look for [TS]

  Tony single are stirring around and [TS]

  bring a bad man i'm already doing that [TS]

  podcast I just don't record or releasing [TS]

  all right here in my house [TS]

  yeah probably so alright well that this [TS]

  has been a lot of fun and I enjoyed [TS]

  finally seeing this show that I've heard [TS]

  so much about but never really actually [TS]

  sat down and watched so thank you to my [TS]

  my guests for talking about it with me [TS]

  on this episode of the uncomfortable dan [TS]

  more'n thank you as always we're all [TS]

  Batman Jason ok Batman David Laura Thank [TS]

  You Batman I hi i am i'm also robin i [TS]

  think sometimes make maybe a Nightwing [TS]

  anyway sounds like a person general [TS]

  Nathan alderman great to have you on [TS]

  after many years of service in other [TS]

  media to come to the uncomfortable this [TS]

  time thanks for being here [TS]

  thanks for letting me be your sidekick [TS]

  are you can get you can get in the [TS]

  sidecar anytime [TS]

  Shannon southern thank you for being [TS]

  here [TS]

  you're welcome back girl already know [TS]

  yeah and Tony sindelar thank you for [TS]

  putting this together made Batman always [TS]

  be with you tonight hurts and I can't [TS]

  top that [TS]

  thanks everybody for listening to this [TS]

  episode of the incomparable we will see [TS]

  you next time [TS]

  [Music] [TS]