The Incomparable

00:00:07 ◼   ► the incomparable podcast episode 12 [TS]

00:00:11 ◼   ► November 2010 [TS]

00:00:14 ◼   ► we're back on the incomparable podcast [TS]

00:00:17 ◼   ► after a little brief mini hiatus because [TS]

00:00:20 ◼   ► i was lazy i'm jason l i'm your host [TS]

00:00:25 ◼   ► today and joining me are three repeaters [TS]

00:00:29 ◼   ► as we call them in the business like the [TS]

00:00:32 ◼   ► Ghostbusters called the repeaters when [TS]

00:00:34 ◼   ► the ghost would come back these [TS]

00:00:36 ◼   ► repeating phantasms are John siracusa [TS]

00:00:38 ◼   ► good evening good evening [TS]

00:00:41 ◼   ► serenity Caldwell ran how you doing I'm [TS]

00:00:44 ◼   ► doing great how are you Jason I am awake [TS]

00:00:47 ◼   ► and alive and vertical and that's all I [TS]

00:00:52 ◼   ► can you know hope for really at this [TS]

00:00:54 ◼   ► point in my life to get because I'm an [TS]

00:00:55 ◼   ► old man and eight really goes without [TS]

00:00:58 ◼   ► saying that they had more and it's also [TS]

00:01:00 ◼   ► hundreds podcast I'm thinking we should [TS]

00:01:02 ◼   ► call it the I think this edition should [TS]

00:01:03 ◼   ► be being comfortable after dark it is [TS]

00:01:06 ◼   ► we're recording this later than usual [TS]

00:01:08 ◼   ► much later [TS]

00:01:09 ◼   ► that's right we're at the Playboy [TS]

00:01:11 ◼   ► Mansion and sadly sadly we're at our [TS]

00:01:15 ◼   ► homes alone with only a microphone for [TS]

00:01:20 ◼   ► comfort [TS]

00:01:21 ◼   ► that's basically every night for me [TS]

00:01:23 ◼   ► really do you fall asleep with cradling [TS]

00:01:27 ◼   ► your microfiber it's a blue snowball [TS]

00:01:29 ◼   ► it's really it's very it's very [TS]

00:01:30 ◼   ► comforting [TS]

00:01:31 ◼   ► I'm creating holding back the jokes [TS]

00:01:33 ◼   ► incredibly my blue snowball right now in [TS]

00:01:35 ◼   ► fact you know that sturdy or if you go [TS]

00:01:38 ◼   ► hey do you like it [TS]

00:01:41 ◼   ► I was trying to hold back above that [TS]

00:01:43 ◼   ► last pic simple fix it in post [TS]

00:01:46 ◼   ► yeah I get that right out like i edited [TS]

00:01:48 ◼   ► out that 30 seconds of silence in the [TS]

00:01:50 ◼   ► last podcast got pregnant i plan on [TS]

00:01:52 ◼   ► trying to subtly stretch out my silences [TS]

00:01:54 ◼   ► every episode until we actually get to [TS]

00:01:57 ◼   ► an episode which I have like 35 minutes [TS]

00:01:58 ◼   ► of silence [TS]

00:01:59 ◼   ► I think it's telling that I'm you [TS]

00:02:01 ◼   ► basically stopped talking and nobody [TS]

00:02:02 ◼   ► noticed [TS]

00:02:03 ◼   ► yeah but apparently didn't keep talking [TS]

00:02:05 ◼   ► either did you well no we were really [TS]

00:02:07 ◼   ► focused on what you weren't saying [TS]

00:02:08 ◼   ► obviously the subtle nuances of what I [TS]

00:02:11 ◼   ► don't say that's really the most into [TS]

00:02:13 ◼   ► spaces between the words really that [TS]

00:02:14 ◼   ► important [TS]

00:02:16 ◼   ► yes learn that from harold pinter [TS]

00:02:17 ◼   ► speaking of harold pinter know [TS]

00:02:20 ◼   ► excellent thank God our job here in [TS]

00:02:23 ◼   ► Mexico and the jobs here Harold Pinter [TS]

00:02:26 ◼   ► is our topic today know [TS]

00:02:28 ◼   ► now there's an anti Harold Pinter that [TS]

00:02:29 ◼   ► is a guy's different podcast yes we are [TS]

00:02:32 ◼   ► going to talk about Joss Whedon today [TS]

00:02:34 ◼   ► and now you know I i find it interesting [TS]

00:02:36 ◼   ► he actually is an interesting uh [TS]

00:02:39 ◼   ► interesting figure because he has a [TS]

00:02:41 ◼   ► hardcore fanbase that quite frankly i'm [TS]

00:02:47 ◼   ► often embarrassed to be associated with [TS]

00:02:48 ◼   ► innocence that I think that he's quite [TS]

00:02:50 ◼   ► good and has done some of the best TV [TS]

00:02:53 ◼   ► that's been made and yet that the fans [TS]

00:02:55 ◼   ► are so rapid that I'm actually a little [TS]

00:02:57 ◼   ► embarrassed sometimes to admit that yes [TS]

00:02:59 ◼   ► I i do things like we fine brothers I go [TS]

00:03:02 ◼   ► ahead [TS]

00:03:02 ◼   ► it is there like a your find a corollary [TS]

00:03:05 ◼   ► between as and you know i'm not that I [TS]

00:03:07 ◼   ► necessarily want Delta too much into are [TS]

00:03:09 ◼   ► you know professional lives but your [TS]

00:03:11 ◼   ► find a corollary between being [TS]

00:03:12 ◼   ► associated as a joss whedon fan of being [TS]

00:03:14 ◼   ► associated as an apple and he knows [TS]

00:03:16 ◼   ► honestly there's i think is very similar [TS]

00:03:18 ◼   ► in many ways on people accuse you of [TS]

00:03:20 ◼   ► being a cultist that's true that's true [TS]

00:03:22 ◼   ► i find i find Apple fans to generally be [TS]

00:03:26 ◼   ► less crazy than joss whedon fans but [TS]

00:03:29 ◼   ► there's no opposition for waiting fans [TS]

00:03:30 ◼   ► that right like if you're an apple fan [TS]

00:03:32 ◼   ► there's an opposition has always been an [TS]

00:03:34 ◼   ► opposition was the pc got as now as the [TS]

00:03:35 ◼   ► android guys right there's no there's no [TS]

00:03:37 ◼   ► anti weeding right there are other [TS]

00:03:39 ◼   ► people who don't like it's starting [TS]

00:03:40 ◼   ► that's the thing is like in those people [TS]

00:03:42 ◼   ► who don't like him [TS]

00:03:43 ◼   ► it's not people and everything just like [TS]

00:03:44 ◼   ► it's like it's like apathy like apathy [TS]

00:03:47 ◼   ► like they don't you know there are [TS]

00:03:48 ◼   ► people there are people who are who are [TS]

00:03:49 ◼   ► actively and who doesn't like yeah but [TS]

00:03:51 ◼   ► listen I know I know I don't buy it but [TS]

00:03:53 ◼   ► it's it i think it's the same sort of [TS]

00:03:55 ◼   ► knee-jerk like if anybody if it if they [TS]

00:03:58 ◼   ► could talk about it this much and like [TS]

00:04:00 ◼   ► hype it up that much it can't be good [TS]

00:04:02 ◼   ► and so they just take the knee-jerk [TS]

00:04:03 ◼   ► reaction that in myself but it's not the [TS]

00:04:05 ◼   ► same as ever there's no like moss [TS]

00:04:07 ◼   ► bleedin who has no on an alternate at [TS]

00:04:11 ◼   ► work but I got sucks up a bit excited [TS]

00:04:13 ◼   ► accept any show they don't curate it all [TS]

00:04:16 ◼   ► just any show ended he makes gets on the [TS]

00:04:18 ◼   ► air [TS]

00:04:18 ◼   ► yeah i know most bleeding his what else [TS]

00:04:21 ◼   ► clearances on it friday nights at nine [TS]

00:04:23 ◼   ► o'clock there's Larry the zombie killer [TS]

00:04:25 ◼   ► Larry the subculture no one give the [TS]

00:04:29 ◼   ► church and it was underrated so so just [TS]

00:04:33 ◼   ► waiting I'm interesting you know he [TS]

00:04:34 ◼   ► started out he really made his name with [TS]

00:04:36 ◼   ► buffy the vampire slayer on the WB [TS]

00:04:40 ◼   ► network [TS]

00:04:40 ◼   ► witches dead is a vampire now and [TS]

00:04:44 ◼   ► although i think your face will have a [TS]

00:04:45 ◼   ► website has been nice [TS]

00:04:47 ◼   ► I mean vampires are undead that's what I [TS]

00:04:49 ◼   ► think be the WB is technically better [TS]

00:04:51 ◼   ► than that [TS]

00:04:51 ◼   ► well it again into the CW so it's kind [TS]

00:04:55 ◼   ► of undead flesh of its former self [TS]

00:04:57 ◼   ► so so and then he went on to a buffy [TS]

00:04:59 ◼   ► spin-off angel and just to recap the [TS]

00:05:02 ◼   ► career and then from there he he created [TS]

00:05:06 ◼   ► a short-lived Fox sci-fi series called [TS]

00:05:10 ◼   ► firefly which spawned a movie sort of [TS]

00:05:14 ◼   ► wrap up called serenity [TS]

00:05:16 ◼   ► yes interesting i'll make the obligatory [TS]

00:05:20 ◼   ► joke now and then and then I I have to [TS]

00:05:25 ◼   ► remind myself then he made a show on Fox [TS]

00:05:26 ◼   ► called dollhouse which don't don't [TS]

00:05:29 ◼   ► forget a doctor horrible to in there and [TS]

00:05:31 ◼   ► and yes dr. horrible's sing-along blog [TS]

00:05:32 ◼   ► the hour-long kind of web special [TS]

00:05:35 ◼   ► musical which was I thought was [TS]

00:05:37 ◼   ► excellent so so lots and lots of stuff [TS]

00:05:39 ◼   ► and now he's sort of doing doing film [TS]

00:05:42 ◼   ► and he's done some comics is Buffy [TS]

00:05:43 ◼   ► Season eight the ass [TS]

00:05:46 ◼   ► what was it a star fishing x-men think [TS]

00:05:49 ◼   ► so some other stuff like that so he's [TS]

00:05:51 ◼   ► all over the place he's currently I [TS]

00:05:53 ◼   ► think writing and directing the avengers [TS]

00:05:55 ◼   ► movie for Marvel which any wrote cabin [TS]

00:05:59 ◼   ► in the woods which is coming out the [TS]

00:06:01 ◼   ► weird horror but not a whore I think [TS]

00:06:04 ◼   ► they're going rainy Asquith it is the [TS]

00:06:06 ◼   ► rumor I don't know much about it [TS]

00:06:08 ◼   ► I don't follow horror movies but yes [TS]

00:06:10 ◼   ► we'll ask our horror movie guys about [TS]

00:06:13 ◼   ► that one when it comes out and of course [TS]

00:06:14 ◼   ► we're talking earlier if you go back [TS]

00:06:17 ◼   ► before [TS]

00:06:18 ◼   ► Buffy and of course there was about the [TS]

00:06:19 ◼   ► movie in the early nineties with Chrissy [TS]

00:06:21 ◼   ► swims up with he also had a pretty good [TS]

00:06:25 ◼   ► career as a script doctor in Hollywood [TS]

00:06:27 ◼   ► indeed worked on Toy Story x-men aliens [TS]

00:06:32 ◼   ► for okay yeah you know there is a good [TS]

00:06:35 ◼   ► it's a bad well he tell he tells some [TS]

00:06:37 ◼   ► good stories about there are some it [TS]

00:06:38 ◼   ► started out really how the alien [TS]

00:06:40 ◼   ► resurrection was how he hated the [TS]

00:06:42 ◼   ► director and the director kept changing [TS]

00:06:44 ◼   ► things that made no sense and then we'd [TS]

00:06:47 ◼   ► go to him and say okay now i need to you [TS]

00:06:48 ◼   ► to change this other scene so it makes [TS]

00:06:50 ◼   ► sense again and like and it's a good [TS]

00:06:53 ◼   ► thing it's a good thing that guide [TS]

00:06:54 ◼   ► going to do anything else no wait uh [TS]

00:06:57 ◼   ► yeah in fact toy story he had an Oscar [TS]

00:07:01 ◼   ► nomination because he's credited for the [TS]

00:07:02 ◼   ► screenplay for that although i don't [TS]

00:07:04 ◼   ► know how much of that work was actually [TS]

00:07:06 ◼   ► his in the end because that's such a [TS]

00:07:08 ◼   ► huge sir factory although i know that [TS]

00:07:11 ◼   ► the line we need more monkeys as their [TS]

00:07:13 ◼   ► unspooling the barrel of monkeys [TS]

00:07:15 ◼   ► I believe that was his as was wine the [TS]

00:07:17 ◼   ► frog and I think of the x-men lines he [TS]

00:07:22 ◼   ► was responsible for one of my favorite [TS]

00:07:24 ◼   ► lines in that entire movie which is the [TS]

00:07:26 ◼   ► scene where at where Wolverine you know [TS]

00:07:31 ◼   ► they're wandering around and they've got [TS]

00:07:32 ◼   ► the shapeshifter among them and Cyclops [TS]

00:07:34 ◼   ► is to worry wait how do I know you're [TS]

00:07:35 ◼   ► the world real Wolverine woman says [TS]

00:07:37 ◼   ► you're a dick [TS]

00:07:38 ◼   ► I think it's ok it's a great life [TS]

00:07:42 ◼   ► yeah so so what's interesting here is [TS]

00:07:45 ◼   ► that we've got I think two people who [TS]

00:07:47 ◼   ► are late convert stew being interested [TS]

00:07:50 ◼   ► in joss whedon and that's ren and John [TS]

00:07:52 ◼   ► and then dan and I kind of start further [TS]

00:07:56 ◼   ► back damn did you watch Buffy when it [TS]

00:07:58 ◼   ► was originally on i think i picked up [TS]

00:08:01 ◼   ► watching it regularly in about season [TS]

00:08:04 ◼   ► three I start I mean I saw [TS]

00:08:06 ◼   ► intermittently I saw seasons 1 into a [TS]

00:08:09 ◼   ► few episodes here and there but I don't [TS]

00:08:10 ◼   ► think I really sort of full-fledged took [TS]

00:08:13 ◼   ► off into it until about season three and [TS]

00:08:16 ◼   ► then I went back later of course and [TS]

00:08:17 ◼   ► backfilled I've seen I think I've seen [TS]

00:08:19 ◼   ► the entire series I may have missed an [TS]

00:08:22 ◼   ► episode in season seven here or there [TS]

00:08:24 ◼   ► but i'm pretty sure I've seen the entire [TS]

00:08:25 ◼   ► thing [TS]

00:08:26 ◼   ► yeah yeah i remember i actually was home [TS]

00:08:30 ◼   ► my wife is taking a class and so she was [TS]

00:08:32 ◼   ► choosing could be home to late night I [TS]

00:08:34 ◼   ► was at home and and I turned on the TV [TS]

00:08:36 ◼   ► and buffy the vampire slayer was on my [TS]

00:08:40 ◼   ► didn't even intend to watch it and that [TS]

00:08:42 ◼   ► was a long time ago now and i started [TS]

00:08:44 ◼   ► watching it and was the two-hour pilot [TS]

00:08:46 ◼   ► and just by luck and i watched started [TS]

00:08:49 ◼   ► about 20 minutes in and was a was a [TS]

00:08:52 ◼   ► midseason in 97 [TS]

00:08:54 ◼   ► yeah they shot the first 13 episodes I [TS]

00:08:56 ◼   ► think about whole first season before [TS]

00:08:58 ◼   ► any of them erred because it aired in [TS]

00:09:00 ◼   ► january i think [TS]

00:09:02 ◼   ► yep and so they didn't know what would [TS]

00:09:05 ◼   ► happen and they could they figured it [TS]

00:09:06 ◼   ► would probably just run [TS]

00:09:07 ◼   ► then be done so that's one of the [TS]

00:09:09 ◼   ► reasons why what became sort of a [TS]

00:09:10 ◼   ► trademark for JA sweetness that he [TS]

00:09:11 ◼   ► actually had closure at the end of the [TS]

00:09:14 ◼   ► seasons instead of cliffhangers which i [TS]

00:09:15 ◼   ► think with Buffy which was really [TS]

00:09:17 ◼   ► interesting but I i got to the end of it [TS]

00:09:20 ◼   ► and then I pick my wife up at the train [TS]

00:09:21 ◼   ► station after her she was getting back [TS]

00:09:23 ◼   ► for her class and I said you know I [TS]

00:09:24 ◼   ► watched buffy the vampire show and it [TS]

00:09:25 ◼   ► was actually but it was good and and [TS]

00:09:29 ◼   ► that was it we actually watch the pilot [TS]

00:09:31 ◼   ► and she watching for the first time when [TS]

00:09:32 ◼   ► they replayed over the weekend and [TS]

00:09:33 ◼   ► surprisingly intelligent show and you [TS]

00:09:39 ◼   ► know I I will you know i'll fight for [TS]

00:09:41 ◼   ► that show is one of the best shows ever [TS]

00:09:42 ◼   ► made actually I i think that's a [TS]

00:09:44 ◼   ► fantastic piece of work although in the [TS]

00:09:46 ◼   ► end it's got some real ups and downs as [TS]

00:09:49 ◼   ► it went along I think that the first [TS]

00:09:51 ◼   ► season is really low budget they're [TS]

00:09:53 ◼   ► finding their feet which all shot on [TS]

00:09:55 ◼   ► like the first two seasons were shot in [TS]

00:09:57 ◼   ► 16-millimeter film so they're really [TS]

00:09:59 ◼   ► kind of grainy and the special effects [TS]

00:10:01 ◼   ► are cheap and but the writing is really [TS]

00:10:03 ◼   ► sharp the second season the drama the [TS]

00:10:06 ◼   ► whole Buffy and Angel there is really [TS]

00:10:08 ◼   ► wrap that up so powerful and such a [TS]

00:10:11 ◼   ► great ending where she sacrifices him [TS]

00:10:13 ◼   ► and yeah then he comes back and he gets [TS]

00:10:16 ◼   ► his own show and whatever that that [TS]

00:10:18 ◼   ► second season still pretty amazing [TS]

00:10:20 ◼   ► I do feel like the fifth season of buffy [TS]

00:10:23 ◼   ► it ends with her dying she sacrifices [TS]

00:10:28 ◼   ► herself to save her sister and that was [TS]

00:10:31 ◼   ► supposed to sort of be a potential [TS]

00:10:34 ◼   ► ending because they guess the show is [TS]

00:10:35 ◼   ► there is some chance that was not going [TS]

00:10:37 ◼   ► to get picked up [TS]

00:10:38 ◼   ► well i think i think it was always going [TS]

00:10:40 ◼   ► to come back but there was some question [TS]

00:10:43 ◼   ► about it because that was that it [TS]

00:10:45 ◼   ► actually the contract was up after five [TS]

00:10:47 ◼   ► years and in the end it moved to another [TS]

00:10:49 ◼   ► network for its last two years to upn [TS]

00:10:52 ◼   ► which ended up getting sucked into that [TS]

00:10:54 ◼   ► the CW afterlife as well eventually uh [TS]

00:10:58 ◼   ► so uh you know I the last two seasons [TS]

00:11:02 ◼   ► with the exception of that wonderful [TS]

00:11:04 ◼   ► musical episode i think the last two [TS]

00:11:06 ◼   ► seasons above your kind of forgettable [TS]

00:11:08 ◼   ► to the point where I almost it prefer to [TS]

00:11:11 ◼   ► think of that last as terrible as it is [TS]

00:11:13 ◼   ► to say i like it when Buffy died at the [TS]

00:11:15 ◼   ► end I'm gonna like that I I thought that [TS]

00:11:17 ◼   ► was kinda was a good it was a good cap [TS]

00:11:20 ◼   ► piece to the entire [TS]

00:11:21 ◼   ► story and i think the sixties and really [TS]

00:11:23 ◼   ► struggles and I mean both in terms of [TS]

00:11:25 ◼   ► the plot which itself is about her [TS]

00:11:28 ◼   ► struggling with coming back and in terms [TS]

00:11:31 ◼   ► of and having said all that spike [TS]

00:11:33 ◼   ► yes I mean there are there are some ups [TS]

00:11:35 ◼   ► and downs i agree that I think the sixth [TS]

00:11:37 ◼   ► season the second half of the back end [TS]

00:11:38 ◼   ► of the sixth season is probably I [TS]

00:11:41 ◼   ► thought it was really good i really [TS]

00:11:43 ◼   ► enjoyed it and that was one that I had [TS]

00:11:44 ◼   ► not seen that for a long time i actually [TS]

00:11:45 ◼   ► ended up watching that only 45 years ago [TS]

00:11:48 ◼   ► because i missed I think that was that [TS]

00:11:51 ◼   ► was the season to transition the upn and [TS]

00:11:53 ◼   ► then we lost upn in i was in college [TS]

00:11:55 ◼   ► then and we just misplaced it somewhere [TS]

00:11:58 ◼   ► no we didn't we didn't get it that was [TS]

00:11:59 ◼   ► the thing it wasn't it was not available [TS]

00:12:01 ◼   ► in office and grow upstate New York [TS]

00:12:03 ◼   ► unfortunately unless you have a [TS]

00:12:05 ◼   ► satellite dish and so for a little while [TS]

00:12:06 ◼   ► we had somebody at someones friends [TS]

00:12:08 ◼   ► parents lived in the area they had a [TS]

00:12:09 ◼   ► satellite dish they were taping it [TS]

00:12:10 ◼   ► giving it to us and then just download [TS]

00:12:13 ◼   ► of that was not really an option except [TS]

00:12:15 ◼   ► hit wow that was those were the days [TS]

00:12:19 ◼   ► yeah hanging at nine years ago ten Jason [TS]

00:12:22 ◼   ► have you seen the movie before you saw [TS]

00:12:24 ◼   ► the serious i had not seen the movie [TS]

00:12:26 ◼   ► before I saw the series and then I'm not [TS]

00:12:27 ◼   ► one at some point i went back and i [TS]

00:12:29 ◼   ► watched the movie and I was horrified at [TS]

00:12:31 ◼   ► how terrible it was you know i will i [TS]

00:12:33 ◼   ► will actually defend it i don't think [TS]

00:12:35 ◼   ► it's a tear I don't think it's that [TS]

00:12:36 ◼   ► terrible movie isnot the show it is [TS]

00:12:38 ◼   ► clearly not the show I think as a as a [TS]

00:12:40 ◼   ► sort of cult movie i think it's got a [TS]

00:12:43 ◼   ► lot going for it but is very very [TS]

00:12:44 ◼   ► different from the show [TS]

00:12:45 ◼   ► yeah I mean I think joss whedon was [TS]

00:12:48 ◼   ► really disappointed and it just because [TS]

00:12:50 ◼   ► he was going for [TS]

00:12:51 ◼   ► he was going for a different kind of I [TS]

00:12:52 ◼   ► he was going for that kind of kind of [TS]

00:12:55 ◼   ► comedy allegory thing and they were they [TS]

00:12:57 ◼   ► were going a little cheesier and all the [TS]

00:12:59 ◼   ► other very campy there's not there's not [TS]

00:13:02 ◼   ► much drama in it if any but it's still [TS]

00:13:05 ◼   ► got it's you know it's still mildly it's [TS]

00:13:07 ◼   ► still amusing it's still an entertaining [TS]

00:13:10 ◼   ► sort of cult movie I me now Paul Reubens [TS]

00:13:12 ◼   ► it has I i really like him in that movie [TS]

00:13:15 ◼   ► it's pretty great rutger hauer is it to [TS]

00:13:18 ◼   ► in Donald Sutherland's got a good cast [TS]

00:13:19 ◼   ► party was one of the first shows that [TS]

00:13:21 ◼   ► genre shows if not the first time I ever [TS]

00:13:24 ◼   ► experience where it had just incredible [TS]

00:13:27 ◼   ► appeal with women who I knew that you [TS]

00:13:32 ◼   ► know a lot of the sci-fi shows you know [TS]

00:13:33 ◼   ► outer space shows and spaceship shows it [TS]

00:13:34 ◼   ► was [TS]

00:13:35 ◼   ► good definitely i'm mostly guy thing and [TS]

00:13:38 ◼   ► with Buffy not i think not just because [TS]

00:13:41 ◼   ► of the female protagonist but i think [TS]

00:13:43 ◼   ► because a lot of the the I mean a lot of [TS]

00:13:47 ◼   ► strong women characters and along with a [TS]

00:13:48 ◼   ► lot of strong messages about women that [TS]

00:13:51 ◼   ► it it i mean there's more of this now [TS]

00:13:52 ◼   ► that i think there was back with Buffy [TS]

00:13:54 ◼   ► was was first premiering where were you [TS]

00:13:56 ◼   ► saw John we show that actually had that [TS]

00:13:58 ◼   ► appeal to women rent have you watched [TS]

00:14:02 ◼   ► much [TS]

00:14:02 ◼   ► Buffy after the factor you more agile [TS]

00:14:04 ◼   ► it's actually it's kind of amusing [TS]

00:14:06 ◼   ► because the first episode i've seen for [TS]

00:14:08 ◼   ► Buffy episodes to date I drinks and the [TS]

00:14:11 ◼   ► first di now I'm it's been online to [TS]

00:14:14 ◼   ► watch list for years and I've just never [TS]

00:14:16 ◼   ► got around to it but the first but the [TS]

00:14:18 ◼   ► episode i ever saw was the season five [TS]

00:14:20 ◼   ► finale of all things [TS]

00:14:22 ◼   ► oh so she dies the end yeah well they [TS]

00:14:26 ◼   ► did that episode has like I clip package [TS]

00:14:28 ◼   ► that does like the first if you ever use [TS]

00:14:30 ◼   ► it in like full form they have a clip [TS]

00:14:32 ◼   ► package that recaps the first five [TS]

00:14:33 ◼   ► species me everything to date which is [TS]

00:14:35 ◼   ► there you're all cut up [TS]

00:14:37 ◼   ► what more do you know it's true i needed [TS]

00:14:39 ◼   ► it made a fair amount of sense [TS]

00:14:41 ◼   ► considering the fact that I was coming [TS]

00:14:42 ◼   ► into the show knowing nothing about it [TS]

00:14:45 ◼   ► other than presumably there's a girl [TS]

00:14:47 ◼   ► named buffy who slays vampires but I [TS]

00:14:50 ◼   ► mean the little life so I've seen that [TS]

00:14:52 ◼   ► I've seen the musical episode and I've [TS]

00:14:54 ◼   ► seen a couple of scattered episodes that [TS]

00:14:56 ◼   ► i can't remember off the top of my head [TS]

00:14:58 ◼   ► but I mean I'd always struck me as an [TS]

00:15:01 ◼   ► intriguing show and never liked it was [TS]

00:15:04 ◼   ► always like on the bubble for me where [TS]

00:15:06 ◼   ► it was [TS]

00:15:06 ◼   ► maybe I'd like this show if I gave it a [TS]

00:15:08 ◼   ► chance but I don't have the time right [TS]

00:15:09 ◼   ► now and there are so many more [TS]

00:15:11 ◼   ► interesting things to be watching and [TS]

00:15:13 ◼   ► then it just kind of get kept on getting [TS]

00:15:15 ◼   ► pushed back and back but i'm i'm curious [TS]

00:15:17 ◼   ► to finally like now that once once we [TS]

00:15:20 ◼   ► get into November hiatus for current [TS]

00:15:23 ◼   ► television and I can go back to watching [TS]

00:15:24 ◼   ► back in television it's on my list but i [TS]

00:15:27 ◼   ► mean i think it's interesting [TS]

00:15:28 ◼   ► overall just Whedon has really made a [TS]

00:15:30 ◼   ► name for himself in strong female [TS]

00:15:32 ◼   ► characters and strong female writing [TS]

00:15:35 ◼   ► going back to what you're saying Jason I [TS]

00:15:37 ◼   ► mean that's that's always something I [TS]

00:15:38 ◼   ► mean he has been a personal champion [TS]

00:15:40 ◼   ► about you know girl should kick ass and [TS]

00:15:42 ◼   ► girls should have their own personal [TS]

00:15:44 ◼   ► messages both in his shows and also [TS]

00:15:47 ◼   ► championing it into like [TS]

00:15:48 ◼   ► stuff that he works with i find [TS]

00:15:50 ◼   ► fascinating really [TS]

00:15:51 ◼   ► yeah absolutely one of the first names [TS]

00:15:54 ◼   ► that I ever associated with you know it [TS]

00:15:57 ◼   ► was at the point of my life was like I [TS]

00:15:58 ◼   ► watched a few television shows and you [TS]

00:16:01 ◼   ► don't really know who's behind them [TS]

00:16:02 ◼   ► necessarily when you're like a teenager [TS]

00:16:04 ◼   ► whatever you're just like oh that shows [TS]

00:16:05 ◼   ► maybe I chose funny but he was one of [TS]

00:16:07 ◼   ► the first people like creative talents [TS]

00:16:09 ◼   ► that I started following because i [TS]

00:16:11 ◼   ► thought this show is so good i need to [TS]

00:16:12 ◼   ► see what else this guy's done but who is [TS]

00:16:14 ◼   ► this guy and he became you know one of [TS]

00:16:16 ◼   ► those names showrunner people were you [TS]

00:16:18 ◼   ► like I wanna it's a show by that guy oh [TS]

00:16:20 ◼   ► that guy [TS]

00:16:21 ◼   ► yeah and of course that's expanded over [TS]

00:16:22 ◼   ► the years but i think he was really for [TS]

00:16:23 ◼   ► me one of the first people that I was [TS]

00:16:25 ◼   ► like that's a guy you know I want to [TS]

00:16:26 ◼   ► follow everything that he does we just [TS]

00:16:27 ◼   ► watch the credits and you see these [TS]

00:16:29 ◼   ► episodes written by joss whedon who is [TS]

00:16:30 ◼   ► the creator of the show and you're like [TS]

00:16:31 ◼   ► okay this guy's interesting and then [TS]

00:16:33 ◼   ► suddenly he starts directing episodes [TS]

00:16:35 ◼   ► that he's written and the ones that he's [TS]

00:16:37 ◼   ► written and directed or like these you [TS]

00:16:39 ◼   ► know special episodes that have [TS]

00:16:40 ◼   ► different things about them like wash [TS]

00:16:43 ◼   ► the episode that has a 35 minute period [TS]

00:16:46 ◼   ► where there's no spoken dialogue because [TS]

00:16:48 ◼   ► everybody loses their voices and and [TS]

00:16:50 ◼   ► instead of one of the are my argument to [TS]

00:16:52 ◼   ► the three best there are three episodes [TS]

00:16:55 ◼   ► to me that totally stand out from that [TS]

00:16:56 ◼   ► show [TS]

00:16:57 ◼   ► go for it on which are the best sort of [TS]

00:16:59 ◼   ► scary episode which i think is hush [TS]

00:17:02 ◼   ► yes i watch it on and i was actually [TS]

00:17:03 ◼   ► actually gave me nightmares on more than [TS]

00:17:05 ◼   ► one occasion [TS]

00:17:06 ◼   ► yeah a little bit of a dark city ripoff [TS]

00:17:08 ◼   ► but who cares generate but the gentlemen [TS]

00:17:10 ◼   ► are Terry truly really scary once more [TS]

00:17:15 ◼   ► with feeling the musical episode a [TS]

00:17:17 ◼   ► musical episode which is fantastic and [TS]

00:17:18 ◼   ► then the best dramatic episode of the [TS]

00:17:20 ◼   ► entire series is the body [TS]

00:17:23 ◼   ► oh the the one where I'd hate to say [TS]

00:17:26 ◼   ► anything about it just because I do what [TS]

00:17:27 ◼   ► you have to find the boiler horn let's [TS]

00:17:29 ◼   ► not even do it [TS]

00:17:30 ◼   ► aight no but I'll just say that it is [TS]

00:17:31 ◼   ► one of the most moving sort of like [TS]

00:17:34 ◼   ► emotional hours on television that no [TS]

00:17:37 ◼   ► more not think that I did not think that [TS]

00:17:39 ◼   ► like television was necessarily capable [TS]

00:17:41 ◼   ► of opening but i watch that it came out [TS]

00:17:43 ◼   ► when I was living in Scotland studying [TS]

00:17:45 ◼   ► abroad and like we had a friend who is [TS]

00:17:48 ◼   ► getting tape scent of the episodes that [TS]

00:17:51 ◼   ► were airing and so they sent it to us [TS]

00:17:54 ◼   ► and i remember watching it on a little [TS]

00:17:55 ◼   ► tiny like like nine inch television that [TS]

00:17:58 ◼   ► I had borrowed from my friend like nine [TS]

00:18:00 ◼   ► inch television BCR [TS]

00:18:02 ◼   ► combo sitting in my room by myself like [TS]

00:18:04 ◼   ► like tearing up just because it was so [TS]

00:18:06 ◼   ► emotional it's just I never I don't [TS]

00:18:09 ◼   ► think even since then I've run into an [TS]

00:18:11 ◼   ► episode of television that has made me [TS]

00:18:12 ◼   ► do that that was a written and directed [TS]

00:18:13 ◼   ► by and that episode also had no music [TS]

00:18:17 ◼   ► that was that was the thing that you [TS]

00:18:19 ◼   ► said there's a musical episode and then [TS]

00:18:20 ◼   ► there's the episode where there is no [TS]

00:18:22 ◼   ► music and the episode no sound which is [TS]

00:18:24 ◼   ► the only upset i think that was ever [TS]

00:18:25 ◼   ► given an Emmy for right yeah yeah [TS]

00:18:28 ◼   ► unfortunately no dialogue [TS]

00:18:30 ◼   ► yeah I guess but the episode that always [TS]

00:18:33 ◼   ► comes to mind for me although that [TS]

00:18:35 ◼   ► climax of season two really hit for me [TS]

00:18:38 ◼   ► is there's an episode and again i'm not [TS]

00:18:40 ◼   ► gonna file off the fire out the spoiler [TS]

00:18:41 ◼   ► horn we did mention but he dies at the [TS]

00:18:44 ◼   ► end of season I already already said she [TS]

00:18:46 ◼   ► died of the disease if I what I didn't [TS]

00:18:47 ◼   ► know then their caller see how you're [TS]

00:18:48 ◼   ► worried about sports or and so put that [TS]

00:18:50 ◼   ► together thank their two more seasons [TS]

00:18:52 ◼   ► there flash yeah she's not in the last [TS]

00:18:54 ◼   ► pieces [TS]

00:18:55 ◼   ► no it's very confusing that's why wasn't [TS]

00:18:57 ◼   ► this with a switch to a dog at the buffy [TS]

00:18:59 ◼   ► so yeah that part's hair that's right [TS]

00:19:01 ◼   ► Doggett and Reyes the vampire agents [TS]

00:19:04 ◼   ► that's a whole other podcast so there's [TS]

00:19:08 ◼   ► an episode in The Who second season in [TS]

00:19:13 ◼   ► the kind of Angel arc arc or passion [TS]

00:19:17 ◼   ► which is the episode again we are [TS]

00:19:20 ◼   ► getting into too many details is the [TS]

00:19:22 ◼   ► episode where you really realize but [TS]

00:19:26 ◼   ► Joss Whedon and this has become a thing [TS]

00:19:28 ◼   ► with him but this was the first time [TS]

00:19:30 ◼   ► where you realize joss whedon is not [TS]

00:19:33 ◼   ► afraid to have regular characters on his [TS]

00:19:37 ◼   ► show [TS]

00:19:37 ◼   ► murder murder permanent murder dead dead [TS]

00:19:41 ◼   ► other characters on his irregular [TS]

00:19:43 ◼   ► characters as one of the characters in [TS]

00:19:45 ◼   ► the cast brutally murders another one [TS]

00:19:48 ◼   ► and the ramifications go for the rest of [TS]

00:19:51 ◼   ► the series brilliant I mean I know it [TS]

00:19:53 ◼   ► sounds terrible but the way it's done [TS]

00:19:55 ◼   ► it's a it that was the moment where I [TS]

00:19:59 ◼   ► was like okay this guy this guy is doing [TS]

00:20:01 ◼   ► great work not just good work but great [TS]

00:20:04 ◼   ► work [TS]

00:20:04 ◼   ► the only other show that I've seen that [TS]

00:20:06 ◼   ► carries that to such an extent is [TS]

00:20:07 ◼   ► possibly the FX show the shield which [TS]

00:20:11 ◼   ► has something terrible happened in the [TS]

00:20:13 ◼   ► first episode [TS]

00:20:14 ◼   ► that literally last the entire seven [TS]

00:20:17 ◼   ► seasons like a zit Lissa's undercurrent [TS]

00:20:20 ◼   ► all the way to the end [TS]

00:20:21 ◼   ► no like yeah joss whedon does a great [TS]

00:20:22 ◼   ► job of any not only is he not afraid to [TS]

00:20:25 ◼   ► kill people is not afraid to like have [TS]

00:20:27 ◼   ► things change you know this is the point [TS]

00:20:29 ◼   ► at which you realize this is not just a [TS]

00:20:31 ◼   ► like formulaic every week there's a [TS]

00:20:33 ◼   ► there's a monster and they fight off the [TS]

00:20:35 ◼   ► monster and that's the end like bad [TS]

00:20:38 ◼   ► stuff happens and you know he's the [TS]

00:20:39 ◼   ► characters are rarely happy for any [TS]

00:20:41 ◼   ► length of time right and and there's a [TS]

00:20:44 ◼   ► you know they they progress through high [TS]

00:20:46 ◼   ► school and college and out into the real [TS]

00:20:48 ◼   ► world which is a kind of a nice they [TS]

00:20:50 ◼   ► don't try to pretend that the high [TS]

00:20:51 ◼   ► school has gone on for eight years [TS]

00:20:53 ◼   ► although there is eating into the shield [TS]

00:20:56 ◼   ► the first episode of Buffy there is a [TS]

00:20:57 ◼   ► character who is parent played by eric [TS]

00:20:59 ◼   ► balfour and again I i I'm not gonna fire [TS]

00:21:02 ◼   ► off the spoiler warning here but let me [TS]

00:21:04 ◼   ► just say eric balfour he's not in the [TS]

00:21:06 ◼   ► show he's only in the pilot but he's [TS]

00:21:08 ◼   ► played the way that he's played is that [TS]

00:21:11 ◼   ► he he's part of the cast essentially and [TS]

00:21:15 ◼   ► then they kill him which is great [TS]

00:21:18 ◼   ► because it's that moment we are like you [TS]

00:21:20 ◼   ► know these three sidekicks and only two [TS]

00:21:22 ◼   ► of them make it and you if you're [TS]

00:21:24 ◼   ► watching the show for the first time you [TS]

00:21:25 ◼   ► have no idea that one of the one of [TS]

00:21:27 ◼   ► these random people is is gonna die in [TS]

00:21:29 ◼   ► the other two we're gonna make it [TS]

00:21:30 ◼   ► it's willow and Xander and Jesse by Eric [TS]

00:21:34 ◼   ► played by eric balfour the problem is [TS]

00:21:36 ◼   ► that that just call for never quite [TS]

00:21:38 ◼   ► never quite rebounded from that he never [TS]

00:21:39 ◼   ► makes it [TS]

00:21:40 ◼   ► yes you can go see him in skyline which [TS]

00:21:43 ◼   ► is a terrible movie that's out now I [TS]

00:21:44 ◼   ► think and we every time we see him and [TS]

00:21:46 ◼   ► be like hey it's jesse the guy who died [TS]

00:21:48 ◼   ► in the first episode of Buffy but the [TS]

00:21:49 ◼   ► the but the thing is the point is unlike [TS]

00:21:51 ◼   ► the shield Jesse's death has no [TS]

00:21:54 ◼   ► ramifications and I always thought that [TS]

00:21:56 ◼   ► was a little strange like jesse was like [TS]

00:21:57 ◼   ► willow and Xander's best buddy and he's [TS]

00:22:00 ◼   ► never mentioned again and he doesn't [TS]

00:22:03 ◼   ► show up and I mean maybe they couldn't [TS]

00:22:05 ◼   ► get him but he doesn't show up in [TS]

00:22:06 ◼   ► alternate realities are flashbacks or [TS]

00:22:08 ◼   ► anything he's jet and there they would [TS]

00:22:10 ◼   ► have been some great opportunities for [TS]

00:22:11 ◼   ► that too yeah yeah so in in the got the [TS]

00:22:14 ◼   ► doppelganger episode in the first [TS]

00:22:16 ◼   ► yeah absolutely but instead it's just [TS]

00:22:19 ◼   ► you know let's never speak better feel [TS]

00:22:20 ◼   ► for again so so send anyone just met you [TS]

00:22:24 ◼   ► Buffy you know so i guess i will go on [TS]

00:22:26 ◼   ► my list of five like the five days [TS]

00:22:28 ◼   ► mr. my high fidelity like a list of the [TS]

00:22:31 ◼   ► top five all-time TV shows [TS]

00:22:33 ◼   ► buffy is number one with a big shiny [TS]

00:22:37 ◼   ► star next number one number one makes it [TS]

00:22:40 ◼   ► makes me want to watch the whole series [TS]

00:22:41 ◼   ► so i can argue with you number 1 i've [TS]

00:22:44 ◼   ► seen a bunch of episodes but number one [TS]

00:22:45 ◼   ► number one number one autumn busy but [TS]

00:22:49 ◼   ► you're thinking but Max Headroom is [TS]

00:22:51 ◼   ► number two by the way i was gonna give [TS]

00:22:53 ◼   ► you top five maybe but next max headroom [TS]

00:22:55 ◼   ► law and lost is in there somewhere but [TS]

00:22:58 ◼   ► although lost at one point was looking [TS]

00:23:00 ◼   ► like it might slide in there at number [TS]

00:23:01 ◼   ► one no later season visited season for [TS]

00:23:05 ◼   ► the what a sixties and happened and yeah [TS]

00:23:07 ◼   ► uh-hum another podcast for that so [TS]

00:23:10 ◼   ► before we go to Firefly which is for the [TS]

00:23:12 ◼   ► other just wish I really wanted to talk [TS]

00:23:14 ◼   ► about and I know that john andrade have [TS]

00:23:16 ◼   ► a lot to say about it will jump over [TS]

00:23:17 ◼   ► angel other than to say that for a show [TS]

00:23:20 ◼   ► that was kind of what I heard there's [TS]

00:23:23 ◼   ► gonna be an angel spin-off I kind of [TS]

00:23:24 ◼   ► couldn't believe it because i really [TS]

00:23:25 ◼   ► hate that guy [TS]

00:23:26 ◼   ► cat you know he's like Captain handsome [TS]

00:23:27 ◼   ► me see I'm oh I'm a vampire and I'm [TS]

00:23:30 ◼   ► Moody and turns out David Boreanaz [TS]

00:23:32 ◼   ► actually pretty good actor and you know [TS]

00:23:35 ◼   ► what he was so good that in fact the [TS]

00:23:36 ◼   ► first time i watched an episode of bones [TS]

00:23:39 ◼   ► which was his later show [TS]

00:23:40 ◼   ► yes I thought it strange to see him in [TS]

00:23:42 ◼   ► the daylight which isn't yeah the [TS]

00:23:44 ◼   ► University of claim and you know for [TS]

00:23:46 ◼   ► someone I agree I agree totally that he [TS]

00:23:48 ◼   ► surprised me with how distinct those [TS]

00:23:51 ◼   ► being the sort of major characters is [TS]

00:23:52 ◼   ► played to date those two characters [TS]

00:23:53 ◼   ► they're very different and he does a [TS]

00:23:56 ◼   ► very good job of portraying them as very [TS]

00:23:58 ◼   ► different people I thought maybe he [TS]

00:23:59 ◼   ► might be kind of a one-trick pony but I [TS]

00:24:01 ◼   ► actually think that he's actually he's [TS]

00:24:02 ◼   ► pretty talented [TS]

00:24:03 ◼   ► not to mention that show has one of my [TS]

00:24:05 ◼   ► favorite character arcs of all time from [TS]

00:24:09 ◼   ► a spin-off character from you from Buffy [TS]

00:24:12 ◼   ► which is Wesley one of the watchers who [TS]

00:24:15 ◼   ► is one of my favorite characters because [TS]

00:24:17 ◼   ► he goes from being a kind of you know [TS]

00:24:20 ◼   ► you're very stuck-up pretentious nerdy [TS]

00:24:23 ◼   ► type into a very different sort of [TS]

00:24:26 ◼   ► character by the end of angel absolutely [TS]

00:24:28 ◼   ► and i love that progression for him he [TS]

00:24:31 ◼   ► is it just it's and it's wrenching at [TS]

00:24:33 ◼   ► times like he goes through some truly [TS]

00:24:35 ◼   ► awful things and does some truly awful [TS]

00:24:37 ◼   ► thing until survive what five seasons [TS]

00:24:39 ◼   ► five seasons it was cancelled [TS]

00:24:42 ◼   ► midway through the fifth season and so [TS]

00:24:44 ◼   ► they basically got enough time to try [TS]

00:24:45 ◼   ► and dig in ending out of it i said no i [TS]

00:24:48 ◼   ► think the fifth season was actually the [TS]

00:24:49 ◼   ► 22nd episode I don't think they lost any [TS]

00:24:51 ◼   ► count [TS]

00:24:52 ◼   ► no they didn't but they didn't know it [TS]

00:24:54 ◼   ► was going to be a school until about [TS]

00:24:55 ◼   ► halfway through the season so they had [TS]

00:24:56 ◼   ► to like scramble to try and put like [TS]

00:24:59 ◼   ► wrap the entire series up and they and [TS]

00:25:01 ◼   ► they seem to not really they they're [TS]

00:25:03 ◼   ► ending is very abrupt and kind of [TS]

00:25:05 ◼   ► deliberately so that's what and you sort [TS]

00:25:07 ◼   ► of like to believe that everybody's [TS]

00:25:08 ◼   ► gonna die although you know they'll [TS]

00:25:10 ◼   ► probably get out of it except it doesn't [TS]

00:25:12 ◼   ► come back so who knows maybe they'd all [TS]

00:25:13 ◼   ► die right then it's also odd because it [TS]

00:25:16 ◼   ► doesn't really linked into the Buffy [TS]

00:25:18 ◼   ► Season eight comics writer is a comic [TS]

00:25:21 ◼   ► book series that picks up for Angel [TS]

00:25:22 ◼   ► after where it left off but is not canon [TS]

00:25:24 ◼   ► and it's also a terrible [TS]

00:25:26 ◼   ► yes but i will say angel has some truly [TS]

00:25:29 ◼   ► great standard episode i think the [TS]

00:25:31 ◼   ► fourth I think the fourth season of [TS]

00:25:32 ◼   ► angel which is this sort of like there's [TS]

00:25:35 ◼   ► a there's a prophecy of course it's [TS]

00:25:37 ◼   ► always a prophecy but it's like it's [TS]

00:25:38 ◼   ► really dark and there's and la is going [TS]

00:25:40 ◼   ► to kind of get pulled into hell and and [TS]

00:25:43 ◼   ► that fourth season of angel really great [TS]

00:25:46 ◼   ► i see i would argue that might be its [TS]

00:25:48 ◼   ► weakest Tom I think it has value and [TS]

00:25:50 ◼   ► great stand on episodes including one [TS]

00:25:54 ◼   ► really fantastic episode where you it's [TS]

00:25:58 ◼   ► cut the whole thing is kind of a [TS]

00:25:59 ◼   ► bait-and-switch and it's kind of a major [TS]

00:26:01 ◼   ► episode in terms of the progression of [TS]

00:26:03 ◼   ► yes season but there I found the Dumont [TS]

00:26:05 ◼   ► of the season like that he do in are you [TS]

00:26:08 ◼   ► referring to the raiders of the lost ark [TS]

00:26:09 ◼   ► episode [TS]

00:26:10 ◼   ► yes yes ok are there is an episode where [TS]

00:26:12 ◼   ► where it seems strangely like greatest [TS]

00:26:14 ◼   ► the Lost Ark and it turns out there's a [TS]

00:26:16 ◼   ► reason for it out what before we move on [TS]

00:26:18 ◼   ► one more thing I want to plug 1 episode [TS]

00:26:19 ◼   ► of angel is nothing is small-time which [TS]

00:26:22 ◼   ► have written by joss whedon but written [TS]

00:26:24 ◼   ► by ben edlund who did the tick and it is [TS]

00:26:27 ◼   ► angel gets turned into a wee little [TS]

00:26:29 ◼   ► puppet man I'm of it [TS]

00:26:31 ◼   ► yeah he's great that's great episode [TS]

00:26:32 ◼   ► angel fantastic ok moving on out of the [TS]

00:26:35 ◼   ► buffyverse to the what turned out to be [TS]

00:26:39 ◼   ► really his biggest kind of failure and [TS]

00:26:41 ◼   ► yet I think cult success which is [TS]

00:26:44 ◼   ► firefly the sci-fi show on the fox [TS]

00:26:47 ◼   ► network that got cancelled midstream [TS]

00:26:49 ◼   ► and i ended up getting picked up in a [TS]

00:26:52 ◼   ► movie [TS]

00:26:53 ◼   ► how many of you watched it was on i'm [TS]

00:26:55 ◼   ► carrying i watched when I was on me I [TS]

00:26:57 ◼   ► didn't know I live the hard real-time [TS]

00:26:59 ◼   ► the terrible and I mean it's john to the [TS]

00:27:02 ◼   ► point where they asked the last episode [TS]

00:27:03 ◼   ► they aired was the was the pilot that [TS]

00:27:06 ◼   ► they'd refuse to run and and i watch [TS]

00:27:09 ◼   ► that pilot and I thought to myself one [TS]

00:27:11 ◼   ► why didn't they run this it's great why [TS]

00:27:15 ◼   ► didn't they make that the first episode [TS]

00:27:16 ◼   ► out of the gate because it might have [TS]

00:27:17 ◼   ► really was fantastic and people metal [TS]

00:27:19 ◼   ► really liked it if they had seen it and [TS]

00:27:21 ◼   ► 2i i watch that pilot of firefly and [TS]

00:27:24 ◼   ► thought to myself this might be the best [TS]

00:27:26 ◼   ► single thing that joss whedon is done [TS]

00:27:28 ◼   ► I mean I always that impressed with it I [TS]

00:27:30 ◼   ► i watched it out of order as they aired [TS]

00:27:32 ◼   ► it and you know it was weird because i [TS]

00:27:34 ◼   ► watch that first episode which is the [TS]

00:27:36 ◼   ► second episode and i was very lukewarm [TS]

00:27:40 ◼   ► on the show because you are sort of [TS]

00:27:42 ◼   ► thrust into it without any idea of who [TS]

00:27:44 ◼   ► these people are what they're doing of [TS]

00:27:46 ◼   ► why they're how they're involved what's [TS]

00:27:49 ◼   ► the bigger picture there's a shortcut [TS]

00:27:51 ◼   ► hang right but if there's some shorthand [TS]

00:27:53 ◼   ► but it's not you know what regular wrote [TS]

00:27:55 ◼   ► it I want the wind as a as a basically [TS]

00:27:58 ◼   ► it's not even the second episode they [TS]

00:27:59 ◼   ► actually it is anybody wrote it and [TS]

00:28:01 ◼   ► inserted it to be like a fake pilot and [TS]

00:28:04 ◼   ► it's you know yeah and it's not it has [TS]

00:28:06 ◼   ► some good moments but its overall not a [TS]

00:28:09 ◼   ► great episode and certainly not a good [TS]

00:28:11 ◼   ► first episode [TS]

00:28:13 ◼   ► oh absolutely wasn't until I went back [TS]

00:28:15 ◼   ► and we watched it like I I again like [TS]

00:28:16 ◼   ► Jason I saw the pilot was like well that [TS]

00:28:18 ◼   ► makes a lot of sense that would be nice [TS]

00:28:20 ◼   ► to know so i went back and rewatch after [TS]

00:28:23 ◼   ► the left of the dvds came out all in [TS]

00:28:25 ◼   ► order it was just like wow okay but the [TS]

00:28:27 ◼   ► second time through really solidified [TS]

00:28:28 ◼   ► for me that it was a great job [TS]

00:28:30 ◼   ► oh absolutely i mean I today when i was [TS]

00:28:32 ◼   ► first watching it I mean I didn't even I [TS]

00:28:34 ◼   ► don't think I caught all of the episodes [TS]

00:28:35 ◼   ► when i was first watching what was on [TS]

00:28:37 ◼   ► television part 1 because they just kept [TS]

00:28:40 ◼   ► on scheduling them so weirdly but I mean [TS]

00:28:42 ◼   ► the first like that when I saw the [TS]

00:28:44 ◼   ► second episode that the fake pilot so to [TS]

00:28:46 ◼   ► speak I was like yeah this is a this is [TS]

00:28:48 ◼   ► fun and I was interested mainly because [TS]

00:28:50 ◼   ► i like watching science fiction [TS]

00:28:52 ◼   ► television shows i mean i watch The Lone [TS]

00:28:54 ◼   ► Gunmen for great stakes but [TS]

00:28:56 ◼   ► I mean I why I really wasn't sold on it [TS]

00:29:00 ◼   ► and I like as the point where I didn't [TS]

00:29:04 ◼   ► really go out of my way to watch the [TS]

00:29:05 ◼   ► episodes its just oh it's friday night [TS]

00:29:07 ◼   ► Hey look maybe an episode of firefly is [TS]

00:29:10 ◼   ► on but i ended up finding the boxset [TS]

00:29:13 ◼   ► like two years later and then going back [TS]

00:29:15 ◼   ► and watching and I don't even think i [TS]

00:29:16 ◼   ► saw the original pilot until I got my [TS]

00:29:18 ◼   ► hands on the box that again and when I [TS]

00:29:20 ◼   ► got the box that I watched it in order [TS]

00:29:22 ◼   ► all the way through and it's it's [TS]

00:29:24 ◼   ► astounding how much better the show is [TS]

00:29:27 ◼   ► even with like the little bits that they [TS]

00:29:29 ◼   ► had to tweak and trim and obviously they [TS]

00:29:32 ◼   ► were working on budget working on [TS]

00:29:33 ◼   ► deadline and things like that but it's [TS]

00:29:35 ◼   ► still it's an astounding piece of work [TS]

00:29:37 ◼   ► for 14 episodes there are two episodes [TS]

00:29:40 ◼   ► that didn't but you couldn't have seen [TS]

00:29:41 ◼   ► the remarks that because they didn't [TS]

00:29:42 ◼   ► even interactive old yeah once you have [TS]

00:29:45 ◼   ► downloaded baffling someone's it i mean [TS]

00:29:48 ◼   ► and not only that but for me you know i [TS]

00:29:50 ◼   ► remember showing trying to convince my [TS]

00:29:52 ◼   ► best friend that this net you gotta [TS]

00:29:55 ◼   ► watch the show right and unfortunately [TS]

00:29:58 ◼   ► it took me like the entire length of the [TS]

00:30:00 ◼   ► time was on so I basically got him i [TS]

00:30:02 ◼   ► watch the last episode not the pilot but [TS]

00:30:05 ◼   ► the one would be at the bounty hunter [TS]

00:30:07 ◼   ► right and it's a kind of figured episode [TS]

00:30:11 ◼   ► it's very out of character for the shell [TS]

00:30:14 ◼   ► is still very character and it's strange [TS]

00:30:16 ◼   ► and if you come into that nest do we put [TS]

00:30:17 ◼   ► this urgency i don't think it makes a [TS]

00:30:19 ◼   ► very good impression because it's a very [TS]

00:30:20 ◼   ► weird episode and he was like that seems [TS]

00:30:23 ◼   ► very strange i don't really get it I'm [TS]

00:30:24 ◼   ► like no you gotta trust me the rest of [TS]

00:30:26 ◼   ► this was way better [TS]

00:30:26 ◼   ► he never trusted you again no no he [TS]

00:30:30 ◼   ► eventually watched it and like and what [TS]

00:30:32 ◼   ► did you know as I knew that he would [TS]

00:30:34 ◼   ► because he's a man of good taste but at [TS]

00:30:36 ◼   ► the same time it was a it was made it [TS]

00:30:37 ◼   ► harder to sell because it's all that's [TS]

00:30:39 ◼   ► that one weird show you maybe watch that [TS]

00:30:41 ◼   ► strange episode of well I will say [TS]

00:30:43 ◼   ► something about Firefly and that each [TS]

00:30:45 ◼   ► episode does have a joss whedon maybe [TS]

00:30:48 ◼   ► because he partially nude the show might [TS]

00:30:50 ◼   ► be doomed he started playing with very [TS]

00:30:52 ◼   ► interesting things in sort of [TS]

00:30:54 ◼   ► encompassing single episodes like out of [TS]

00:30:57 ◼   ► that's out of gas right that is the [TS]

00:30:59 ◼   ► money under 18 out of gas [TS]

00:31:01 ◼   ► it's it's I don't know what the name is [TS]

00:31:03 ◼   ► I don't remember the title because Jubal [TS]

00:31:05 ◼   ► Early yes I remember I remember the [TS]

00:31:08 ◼   ► character and but I mean out of gases is [TS]

00:31:10 ◼   ► a different but also equally viable for [TS]

00:31:13 ◼   ► 30 seconds yeah the flashback episode [TS]

00:31:15 ◼   ► where you have basically an entire an [TS]

00:31:18 ◼   ► entire narrative very different [TS]

00:31:19 ◼   ► narrative from the rest of the show and [TS]

00:31:21 ◼   ► the bounty hunter episode is a very [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► different narrative and Ariel when they [TS]

00:31:24 ◼   ► actually you know that area which is one [TS]

00:31:26 ◼   ► of their biggest sort of budget episodes [TS]

00:31:29 ◼   ► where they go down to they go planetside [TS]

00:31:31 ◼   ► and do a lot of crazy crazy antics and [TS]

00:31:35 ◼   ► you get sort of the bigger mythology [TS]

00:31:37 ◼   ► there i think just reading was playing [TS]

00:31:39 ◼   ► with a lot of different things which I [TS]

00:31:40 ◼   ► found really interesting John you're a [TS]

00:31:42 ◼   ► big firefly supporter right well see i [TS]

00:31:46 ◼   ► have to go back way back to the buffy [TS]

00:31:48 ◼   ► movie i think to explain my Firefly [TS]

00:31:50 ◼   ► thing because i saw the bottom yet and I [TS]

00:31:52 ◼   ► don't remember why i thought i think i [TS]

00:31:54 ◼   ► might even seen the theater who never [TS]

00:31:56 ◼   ► lost a best I i saw that you know [TS]

00:31:59 ◼   ► somebody with some silly throw anything [TS]

00:32:00 ◼   ► whatever and then they were making the [TS]

00:32:01 ◼   ► TV series of it and i really i said [TS]

00:32:04 ◼   ► they're making a TV series of that movie [TS]

00:32:05 ◼   ► is ridiculous so i didn't watch it a [TS]

00:32:08 ◼   ► bunch of people who is friends with [TS]

00:32:09 ◼   ► watching and they don't you gotta watch [TS]

00:32:11 ◼   ► buffy the vampire slayer it's a great [TS]

00:32:12 ◼   ► like me talking about i saw that movie [TS]

00:32:14 ◼   ► the television shows gonna be worse than [TS]

00:32:16 ◼   ► the movie and I don't understand why you [TS]

00:32:18 ◼   ► guys are watching it so I had this anti [TS]

00:32:19 ◼   ► weedy sentiment going that you know we'd [TS]

00:32:22 ◼   ► is overhyped I don't understand what [TS]

00:32:23 ◼   ► people see in this thing you know I [TS]

00:32:25 ◼   ► would watch like happen episode to say [TS]

00:32:26 ◼   ► no this is horrible this is like Sweet [TS]

00:32:29 ◼   ► Valley High meets you know bad sitcom [TS]

00:32:31 ◼   ► well you know I'm feeling i would agree [TS]

00:32:34 ◼   ► to go to I coupling i'm not saying this [TS]

00:32:37 ◼   ► is true because i'm re-watching it now [TS]

00:32:39 ◼   ► and I see that there's more to it but [TS]

00:32:40 ◼   ► you know I'm just saying where I'm [TS]

00:32:41 ◼   ► coming from sure so I had no interest in [TS]

00:32:42 ◼   ► weeding although I did see his name on [TS]

00:32:44 ◼   ► Toy Story credits in like hey there's [TS]

00:32:45 ◼   ► that bucket the vampire slayer guy i saw [TS]

00:32:49 ◼   ► it i think it was like when it was on [TS]

00:32:50 ◼   ► VHS or something whatever was a very DVD [TS]

00:32:52 ◼   ► even but I started it put the pieces [TS]

00:32:53 ◼   ► together some firefly came out of my car [TS]

00:32:55 ◼   ► spaceships fox i watch it i'll give it a [TS]

00:32:58 ◼   ► try and i think it was this was the very [TS]

00:33:01 ◼   ► first episode maybe i'm wrong about yeah [TS]

00:33:04 ◼   ► i think it was the the first one that [TS]

00:33:06 ◼   ► aired I watched it it was like said you [TS]

00:33:09 ◼   ► don't know who the characters are they [TS]

00:33:11 ◼   ► do have a spaceship they do spaceship be [TS]

00:33:13 ◼   ► kind of thing [TS]

00:33:14 ◼   ► but two things were kind of keeping me [TS]

00:33:16 ◼   ► watching one was a mega millions [TS]

00:33:18 ◼   ► charisma sort of comes off the screen [TS]

00:33:20 ◼   ► you like a ride that guy I've never seen [TS]

00:33:22 ◼   ► him before but never seems to be fun and [TS]

00:33:24 ◼   ► I think at the very end of the episode [TS]

00:33:25 ◼   ► is the one where he kicks the guy into [TS]

00:33:27 ◼   ► the engine [TS]

00:33:27 ◼   ► yes grazie so i'm watching this thing [TS]

00:33:30 ◼   ► like our goofy comedy case guy the [TS]

00:33:32 ◼   ► engine and if I had been drinking [TS]

00:33:33 ◼   ► something I want to spit all over the [TS]

00:33:34 ◼   ► suffering it up it just came out of left [TS]

00:33:37 ◼   ► field and on and this was kind of my [TS]

00:33:40 ◼   ► clue that like whoever this guy is he's [TS]

00:33:43 ◼   ► not afraid of ridiculous tonal shifts [TS]

00:33:45 ◼   ► and like it's not gonna be like one kind [TS]

00:33:47 ◼   ► of show like you know for example the [TS]

00:33:48 ◼   ► x-files and a certain mood and that was [TS]

00:33:51 ◼   ► what the show is about a certain [TS]

00:33:52 ◼   ► sensibility this guy was willing to go [TS]

00:33:54 ◼   ► from like you know corny drama too weird [TS]

00:33:58 ◼   ► sci-fi too ridiculous slapstick humor in [TS]

00:34:01 ◼   ► like you know in two seconds and and as [TS]

00:34:03 ◼   ► you two later and in some other work and [TS]

00:34:05 ◼   ► everything he's going to go right from [TS]

00:34:07 ◼   ► like you know comedy and and the absurd [TS]

00:34:10 ◼   ► right into like gasoline and dramatic [TS]

00:34:12 ◼   ► and like you know heart-wrenching we've [TS]

00:34:14 ◼   ► been like two seconds [TS]

00:34:15 ◼   ► i'm dr. Horrible's that like uh yeah [TS]

00:34:18 ◼   ► sounds like a horrible one dies in 40 [TS]

00:34:20 ◼   ► minutes yeah yeah [TS]

00:34:21 ◼   ► twist the knife at the end so that's [TS]

00:34:23 ◼   ► what made me say I'm gonna be watching [TS]

00:34:24 ◼   ► the show because I don't know but [TS]

00:34:26 ◼   ► whatever where this guy is I still [TS]

00:34:27 ◼   ► didn't have any interesting but I said [TS]

00:34:29 ◼   ► he's unpredictable he's not doing what I [TS]

00:34:30 ◼   ► think he's going to do in the show em [TS]

00:34:32 ◼   ► and then of course you start watching [TS]

00:34:33 ◼   ► you get into the characters and you see [TS]

00:34:35 ◼   ► that we continue doing that I was [TS]

00:34:37 ◼   ► thinking it's Bobby like this is why [TS]

00:34:38 ◼   ► everybody loved Buffy and now going back [TS]

00:34:40 ◼   ► and watching buffy so far I'm almost [TS]

00:34:42 ◼   ► through with season one I still don't [TS]

00:34:44 ◼   ► quite see any of that Firefly magic and [TS]

00:34:45 ◼   ► Bobby maybe the seeds of it are there [TS]

00:34:46 ◼   ► but i'll keep watching and see how it [TS]

00:34:48 ◼   ► goes but powerful I was just you know it [TS]

00:34:52 ◼   ► was just confounding expectations at [TS]

00:34:53 ◼   ► every turn and it had spaceships and [TS]

00:34:55 ◼   ► like that episode with the bounty hunter [TS]

00:34:56 ◼   ► i love that one because that bounty [TS]

00:34:57 ◼   ► hunter was nuts like the characters are [TS]

00:34:59 ◼   ► consistently and that made me the whole [TS]

00:35:03 ◼   ► episode was ridiculous and strange and [TS]

00:35:05 ◼   ► like you know sometimes life is [TS]

00:35:07 ◼   ► ridiculous and strange like sure i will [TS]

00:35:09 ◼   ► go with that like if they had a musical [TS]

00:35:11 ◼   ► surrounding episode 5 episode maybe I [TS]

00:35:13 ◼   ► wouldn't have gone along that but maybe [TS]

00:35:14 ◼   ► i would like I think you could you could [TS]

00:35:16 ◼   ► go in any direction so you can pull it [TS]

00:35:18 ◼   ► off [TS]

00:35:18 ◼   ► I was just insanely addicted to that [TS]

00:35:21 ◼   ► show because not only was I desperate [TS]

00:35:23 ◼   ► for sci-fi but he was a sci-fi show that [TS]

00:35:25 ◼   ► was just you know interesting and great [TS]

00:35:26 ◼   ► in the can [TS]

00:35:27 ◼   ► it was wonderful and it is the kind of [TS]

00:35:29 ◼   ► show it's where the more you watch it [TS]

00:35:30 ◼   ► seems a lot longer than its 14 episodes [TS]

00:35:32 ◼   ► but the more you watch it the more you [TS]

00:35:34 ◼   ► just want to see more of those [TS]

00:35:34 ◼   ► characters i think so i think part of it [TS]

00:35:37 ◼   ► is that it's amazing to me like clearly [TS]

00:35:39 ◼   ► how tight knit the the relationship [TS]

00:35:42 ◼   ► between all the all the actors and again [TS]

00:35:45 ◼   ► then that's true and everything is [TS]

00:35:47 ◼   ► because it's still I mean be as much a [TS]

00:35:50 ◼   ► cult show it still keeps cropping up i [TS]

00:35:52 ◼   ► mean i love the fact that i'm nathan [TS]

00:35:54 ◼   ► fillion is current show castle where he [TS]

00:35:56 ◼   ► plays a you know a thriller writer there [TS]

00:36:00 ◼   ► have been at least two or three episodes [TS]

00:36:02 ◼   ► with references to firefly including the [TS]

00:36:04 ◼   ► one that aired this past week in which [TS]

00:36:06 ◼   ► he whips out so chinese and when asked [TS]

00:36:09 ◼   ► how those Chinese the show used to watch [TS]

00:36:11 ◼   ► you know it's it's I find that like [TS]

00:36:14 ◼   ► clearly as even as an actor he was not [TS]

00:36:17 ◼   ► just a job for a lot of these guys who [TS]

00:36:20 ◼   ► are on the show because they still go to [TS]

00:36:21 ◼   ► conventions and they talk about it and [TS]

00:36:23 ◼   ► there's all sorts of you know you see [TS]

00:36:25 ◼   ► them turn up and start casting I thought [TS]

00:36:26 ◼   ► it was funny that on the same night that [TS]

00:36:28 ◼   ► they have a firefly reference on Castle [TS]

00:36:30 ◼   ► the show that airs opposite on NBC Chuck [TS]

00:36:34 ◼   ► which has added Baldwin who played Jane [TS]

00:36:36 ◼   ► on fireflight had a guest star of summer [TS]

00:36:39 ◼   ► glau who played river on firefly like [TS]

00:36:41 ◼   ► they clearly you know all this stuff [TS]

00:36:43 ◼   ► keeps is sort of sticks around in some [TS]

00:36:45 ◼   ► way there's a lot of lasting impact from [TS]

00:36:47 ◼   ► the Sun make you sad though it does in [TS]

00:36:50 ◼   ► some ways like I wish there was more but [TS]

00:36:52 ◼   ► I guess part of it like you know felt [TS]

00:36:54 ◼   ► like it felt to me like you if the stars [TS]

00:36:57 ◼   ► ever aligned all those people would be [TS]

00:36:59 ◼   ► like yeah I'll totally be there you know [TS]

00:37:01 ◼   ► to do something but I'm gonna get old [TS]

00:37:02 ◼   ► like everything in some sense it's nice [TS]

00:37:04 ◼   ► that he died young and that it never got [TS]

00:37:06 ◼   ► to go through that that you know where [TS]

00:37:08 ◼   ► you know all the shows going to go off [TS]

00:37:09 ◼   ► the cliff around season five or six or [TS]

00:37:11 ◼   ► seven when they run out of things to do [TS]

00:37:12 ◼   ► or he'll kill the main character [TS]

00:37:13 ◼   ► whatever they want to do but this just [TS]

00:37:15 ◼   ► had 11 short season and just feel like [TS]

00:37:18 ◼   ► it was too early and to see that you [TS]

00:37:19 ◼   ► know the see the same actors like nathan [TS]

00:37:22 ◼   ► fillion like he excited he's got like [TS]

00:37:24 ◼   ► charisma that just jumps so great [TS]

00:37:26 ◼   ► natural smacks you in the face right and [TS]

00:37:28 ◼   ► every time it seems like you should not [TS]

00:37:29 ◼   ► be in the show about the right there or [TS]

00:37:31 ◼   ► not that's not how you doing and getting [TS]

00:37:33 ◼   ► elevators here he elevates that show and [TS]

00:37:36 ◼   ► by does this prime sure he does but it's [TS]

00:37:38 ◼   ► just like like you people are wasted and [TS]

00:37:40 ◼   ► don't like [TS]

00:37:41 ◼   ► Chuck you know the character he's wasted [TS]

00:37:43 ◼   ► there to compare his character on Chuck [TS]

00:37:44 ◼   ► to what to Jane he's a very [TS]

00:37:46 ◼   ► disappointing character by but I see is [TS]

00:37:48 ◼   ► yet he still has a place in my heart [TS]

00:37:51 ◼   ► posted it just makes it that involved in [TS]

00:37:54 ◼   ► episodes is not enough ice almost sure I [TS]

00:37:56 ◼   ► saw my show where he played a total and [TS]

00:37:57 ◼   ► others like straight man which was the [TS]

00:38:00 ◼   ► 2-minute show the inside i believe which [TS]

00:38:03 ◼   ► did not last very long to maneuver who [TS]

00:38:05 ◼   ► worked on Firefly and that was very [TS]

00:38:07 ◼   ► disappointing in that regard [TS]

00:38:10 ◼   ► yeah it's the cast is kind of amazing [TS]

00:38:12 ◼   ► for firefly and fillion i'm in philly in [TS]

00:38:15 ◼   ► such a huge part of that hehe is he's [TS]

00:38:18 ◼   ► like Han Solo basically I mean he's that [TS]

00:38:20 ◼   ► kind of character is like he's got all [TS]

00:38:22 ◼   ► those pieces and he's got the layers and [TS]

00:38:23 ◼   ► he's got the gruff outside and you know [TS]

00:38:26 ◼   ► and you always he always shoots first [TS]

00:38:28 ◼   ► yeah he always eats first exactly until [TS]

00:38:31 ◼   ► they do the the revisited version of [TS]

00:38:34 ◼   ► fire and it wasn't just like the [TS]

00:38:35 ◼   ► unlikable like hustles like unlikable [TS]

00:38:37 ◼   ► but you know is really likable mouth [TS]

00:38:39 ◼   ► sometimes unlikable and just plain [TS]

00:38:40 ◼   ► unlikable you know like something he did [TS]

00:38:42 ◼   ► things that were unlikable he wasn't [TS]

00:38:44 ◼   ► like all we really know your sweetheart [TS]

00:38:45 ◼   ► no he did mean things that you really [TS]

00:38:48 ◼   ► like you really believe he would have [TS]

00:38:50 ◼   ► put Jane out the airlock I was a hundred [TS]

00:38:52 ◼   ► % yep he's gonna kill me that's up to me [TS]

00:38:53 ◼   ► was it was a hundred percent in [TS]

00:38:55 ◼   ► character I totally believed he would do [TS]

00:38:56 ◼   ► it [TS]

00:38:57 ◼   ► the fact that he didn't didn't feel bad [TS]

00:38:59 ◼   ► or anything to me but it's like that [TS]

00:39:00 ◼   ► established that character to the point [TS]

00:39:01 ◼   ► where you know any other show you were [TS]

00:39:03 ◼   ► like right yeah any other show you know [TS]

00:39:05 ◼   ► it's not gonna happen and butter and one [TS]

00:39:07 ◼   ► of his shows and you know even with that [TS]

00:39:08 ◼   ► much you know just a couple episodes [TS]

00:39:10 ◼   ► under the belt you're like Pepe could do [TS]

00:39:11 ◼   ► that i can see it happening and i have [TS]

00:39:12 ◼   ► never even seen buffy known that you [TS]

00:39:14 ◼   ► know other characters kill other [TS]

00:39:15 ◼   ► characters you know that's the those 14 [TS]

00:39:17 ◼   ► episodes i think you make a good point [TS]

00:39:19 ◼   ► John it feels to me almost like not [TS]

00:39:22 ◼   ► quite like they had three seasons and [TS]

00:39:25 ◼   ► it's and and you know somebody they were [TS]

00:39:27 ◼   ► deleting the tapes and only 14 episodes [TS]

00:39:29 ◼   ► could be picked [TS]

00:39:30 ◼   ► but it does feel like in those 14 [TS]

00:39:32 ◼   ► episodes they they showed the sort of [TS]

00:39:33 ◼   ► all the different ways you could play [TS]

00:39:36 ◼   ► that show because they are so the [TS]

00:39:38 ◼   ► episodes are so varied and that's not [TS]

00:39:41 ◼   ► bad for first season when usually think [TS]

00:39:43 ◼   ► about it [TS]

00:39:43 ◼   ► usually the first season of the show [TS]

00:39:44 ◼   ► it's just getting at sea legs right i [TS]

00:39:47 ◼   ► mean you very rarely say oh that first [TS]

00:39:49 ◼   ► season was the best right you that never [TS]

00:39:51 ◼   ► happens it's always the second or the [TS]

00:39:52 ◼   ► third the fourth [TS]

00:39:54 ◼   ► I which on one level makes me think [TS]

00:39:55 ◼   ► imagine what firefly could have ended up [TS]

00:39:57 ◼   ► being another level it's sorta like [TS]

00:39:59 ◼   ► maybe it's maybe this was just a [TS]

00:40:00 ◼   ► different kind of shape of a show and [TS]

00:40:02 ◼   ► they they figured it out and left a [TS]

00:40:05 ◼   ► beautiful corpse [TS]

00:40:06 ◼   ► well I mean we really didn't even get to [TS]

00:40:08 ◼   ► the mythology I mean there's only a [TS]

00:40:09 ◼   ► couple dudes did blue hands like two or [TS]

00:40:12 ◼   ► three times you're like I guess that's [TS]

00:40:13 ◼   ► going to be the ark and it's over and [TS]

00:40:15 ◼   ► then when the movie basically the movie [TS]

00:40:17 ◼   ► is the are not pressed into a movie at [TS]

00:40:20 ◼   ► that was also kind of depressing like [TS]

00:40:22 ◼   ► the movie bother me and you know it i [TS]

00:40:25 ◼   ► guess the tone was like this series but [TS]

00:40:27 ◼   ► like when they had the character died at [TS]

00:40:30 ◼   ► the end I mean if that had happened at [TS]

00:40:32 ◼   ► the end of a season I would have felt [TS]

00:40:33 ◼   ► more okay with it but in the movie it's [TS]

00:40:35 ◼   ► like yeah you know it you're right it [TS]

00:40:37 ◼   ► was compressed it was everything squish [TS]

00:40:39 ◼   ► down everything kind of rushing around [TS]

00:40:40 ◼   ► but a lot of that show that was nice [TS]

00:40:43 ◼   ► about that show was the that you got to [TS]

00:40:44 ◼   ► stretch stuff out that a lot of episodes [TS]

00:40:46 ◼   ► didn't have that much take place it was [TS]

00:40:48 ◼   ► mostly just characters talking a little [TS]

00:40:50 ◼   ► bit doing something you know and then [TS]

00:40:52 ◼   ► the movies had jamitol and kind of here [TS]

00:40:54 ◼   ► gotta go there on this planet do that [TS]

00:40:56 ◼   ► this is in danger that's this person [TS]

00:40:57 ◼   ► this is this conspiracy and is over I'd [TS]

00:41:00 ◼   ► love that movie though I have to say I i [TS]

00:41:01 ◼   ► left that movie my wife and I looked at [TS]

00:41:03 ◼   ► each other and said that is what I want [TS]

00:41:05 ◼   ► out of a sci-fi movie I want a ride i [TS]

00:41:07 ◼   ► want to thrill ride i want some fun and [TS]

00:41:09 ◼   ► some scary and some action and I want to [TS]

00:41:11 ◼   ► get out there and was like boy that was [TS]

00:41:13 ◼   ► fun and I haven't I haven't left a movie [TS]

00:41:16 ◼   ► with that kind of feeling I remember [TS]

00:41:18 ◼   ► walking out of there thinking it when [TS]

00:41:20 ◼   ► was the last time I walked out of a [TS]

00:41:21 ◼   ► sci-fi movie if this exhilarated was it [TS]

00:41:23 ◼   ► was it one of the Star Wars movies and [TS]

00:41:25 ◼   ► it had been a long time since I'd yeah [TS]

00:41:27 ◼   ► I'd experienced a movie a sci-fi movie [TS]

00:41:30 ◼   ► that really hit that all those notes [TS]

00:41:32 ◼   ► like how serenity did the new star trek [TS]

00:41:35 ◼   ► was kinda like that too but I feel like [TS]

00:41:37 ◼   ► that second that [TS]

00:41:38 ◼   ► yeah yeah whatever later found out later [TS]

00:41:40 ◼   ► right [TS]

00:41:42 ◼   ► wait no you didn't travel in time and [TS]

00:41:45 ◼   ► parallel universe where it came out [TS]

00:41:46 ◼   ► first [TS]

00:41:46 ◼   ► I I came unstuck in time sadly hi IM [TS]

00:41:51 ◼   ► yeah i know you can bring it back to Los [TS]

00:41:54 ◼   ► not even in your top two [TS]

00:41:55 ◼   ► I was going with kurt vonnegut actually [TS]

00:41:57 ◼   ► fill a style all right okay but ok this [TS]

00:42:02 ◼   ► is not good what's that guy's name again [TS]

00:42:03 ◼   ► scott scott pilgrim no hole mobility [TS]

00:42:07 ◼   ► pilgrim vs the world he has to fight the [TS]

00:42:09 ◼   ► nine evil truffle midori ins good times [TS]

00:42:14 ◼   ► i just watched that movie by the way [TS]

00:42:16 ◼   ► scott pilgrim so now I could talk about [TS]

00:42:18 ◼   ► it if we did a podcast about various [TS]

00:42:20 ◼   ► good idea only yeah we're supposed to do [TS]

00:42:21 ◼   ► a podcast about that like six months ago [TS]

00:42:23 ◼   ► man come on [TS]

00:42:24 ◼   ► yeah something like that yeah it never [TS]

00:42:25 ◼   ► came together though because i don't see [TS]

00:42:28 ◼   ► movies ever [TS]

00:42:30 ◼   ► I i don't so dr. horrible was the weird [TS]

00:42:34 ◼   ► kind of let's do a thing during the [TS]

00:42:36 ◼   ► writers strike that is on the internet [TS]

00:42:39 ◼   ► and we own it basically and so it's just [TS]

00:42:41 ◼   ► weed and his brothers and his his [TS]

00:42:44 ◼   ► brothers fiance at the time and they got [TS]

00:42:48 ◼   ► a great cast and on a shoestring budget [TS]

00:42:51 ◼   ► they shot something that actually look [TS]

00:42:53 ◼   ► pretty good and I was a musical again [TS]

00:42:57 ◼   ► going back to the musical roots and also [TS]

00:42:58 ◼   ► was a genre kind of peace because it's [TS]

00:43:00 ◼   ► about sort of superheroes and as we said [TS]

00:43:02 ◼   ► earlier kind of runs the gamut in 45 [TS]

00:43:06 ◼   ► minutes it's essentially the length of [TS]

00:43:07 ◼   ► its three acts but it's the length of [TS]

00:43:09 ◼   ► like a one TV episode of comedy and [TS]

00:43:12 ◼   ► tragedy and just heart and it's got a [TS]

00:43:14 ◼   ► its gotta turn in the last literally two [TS]

00:43:16 ◼   ► seconds that it just rips your heart out [TS]

00:43:19 ◼   ► uh you know soon Neil Patrick Harris [TS]

00:43:21 ◼   ► against the the people who don't know [TS]

00:43:24 ◼   ► how much of it is him is just we can [TS]

00:43:25 ◼   ► find good actors to work with and at [TS]

00:43:27 ◼   ► this point how many good actors want to [TS]

00:43:29 ◼   ► work with Joss Whedon but uh you know [TS]

00:43:31 ◼   ► great role by from neil patrick harris [TS]

00:43:33 ◼   ► and of course nathan fillion is turning [TS]

00:43:35 ◼   ► on the smart as captain hammer he just [TS]

00:43:38 ◼   ► manages to match people so well either [TS]

00:43:41 ◼   ► match match actors with characters or [TS]

00:43:43 ◼   ► characters with actors he just has this [TS]

00:43:44 ◼   ► natural charisma that just draws people [TS]

00:43:47 ◼   ► in and it makes really a family of [TS]

00:43:50 ◼   ► actors and a family of characters and [TS]

00:43:52 ◼   ► that's what I think this is shown in [TS]

00:43:54 ◼   ► general you know but I'm dr. horrible is [TS]

00:43:58 ◼   ► just dr horrible maybe my like it's tied [TS]

00:44:01 ◼   ► with firefly for me as one of my [TS]

00:44:04 ◼   ► favorite things that just weeds ever [TS]

00:44:06 ◼   ► done because I discovered horrible quite [TS]

00:44:08 ◼   ► by accident you know I i saw i found out [TS]

00:44:11 ◼   ► about it when part to it erred because [TS]

00:44:13 ◼   ► when they were first when they were [TS]

00:44:15 ◼   ► doing it they're doing this is like a [TS]

00:44:17 ◼   ► viral three-part thing with the like all [TS]

00:44:19 ◼   ► right word [TS]

00:44:19 ◼   ► release part 1 on a Monday and we're [TS]

00:44:22 ◼   ► going to release part two on wednesday [TS]

00:44:23 ◼   ► and part 3 on a friday and you have to [TS]

00:44:26 ◼   ► tune in and at that point I don't think [TS]

00:44:29 ◼   ► hulu either who hadn't yet been ordered [TS]

00:44:33 ◼   ► just been announced and was like and [TS]

00:44:35 ◼   ► artists they just started and I gotta [TS]

00:44:38 ◼   ► have it on their own site to was on here [TS]

00:44:39 ◼   ► yeah whatever it was it was on their [TS]

00:44:42 ◼   ► site is on hulu and then they managed to [TS]

00:44:44 ◼   ► get it on itunes as well and it's and it [TS]

00:44:46 ◼   ► was really amazing how that kind of [TS]

00:44:48 ◼   ► worked out because they originally just [TS]

00:44:50 ◼   ► kind of going for broke and like you [TS]

00:44:52 ◼   ► know we're just going to put it on [TS]

00:44:52 ◼   ► quicktime and i followed this like once [TS]

00:44:55 ◼   ► I got into once i watched part 2 which I [TS]

00:44:57 ◼   ► watched first then I will back and watch [TS]

00:44:59 ◼   ► part one and i was like oh my god this [TS]

00:45:00 ◼   ► is amazing this is why everybody's [TS]

00:45:01 ◼   ► talking about it and I went back in like [TS]

00:45:03 ◼   ► obsessively research like how much has [TS]

00:45:06 ◼   ► been made for and how they had set this [TS]

00:45:08 ◼   ► all up and they really just kind of did [TS]

00:45:09 ◼   ► it on a whim as just kind of a were [TS]

00:45:12 ◼   ► bored and I don't and joss whedon's like [TS]

00:45:14 ◼   ► I'm unencumbered by projects and his [TS]

00:45:16 ◼   ► felicia day was a friend of his was like [TS]

00:45:18 ◼   ► yeah I'm uncovered my projects to let's [TS]

00:45:20 ◼   ► do something because she had I think she [TS]

00:45:23 ◼   ► had been doing has she been doing the [TS]

00:45:24 ◼   ► guild at that point I think she liked [TS]

00:45:27 ◼   ► Jessica yeah something just either just [TS]

00:45:30 ◼   ► started or just wrapped season one or [TS]

00:45:32 ◼   ► something like that and so they just [TS]

00:45:34 ◼   ► kind of collaborate together and what [TS]

00:45:36 ◼   ► started this as this kind of informal [TS]

00:45:38 ◼   ► project where they just they asked [TS]

00:45:39 ◼   ► everybody to basically work on promise [TS]

00:45:42 ◼   ► of future pay and and profit-sharing [TS]

00:45:44 ◼   ► basically and they pulled in a bunch of [TS]

00:45:47 ◼   ► favors like all the outdoor stuff and dr [TS]

00:45:49 ◼   ► horrible is done on the Paramount lot [TS]

00:45:51 ◼   ► because just we'd managed to convince a [TS]

00:45:53 ◼   ► friend of his on the Paramount want to [TS]

00:45:55 ◼   ► let them in for 10 hours so i can just [TS]

00:45:57 ◼   ► shoot everything going to tell that to [TS]

00:45:59 ◼   ► me is not you're like me [TS]

00:46:01 ◼   ► yes Taylor was hit by a car right over [TS]

00:46:04 ◼   ► there huh [TS]

00:46:06 ◼   ► but I mean it's part of the reason why i [TS]

00:46:10 ◼   ► think i love it so much is just the [TS]

00:46:12 ◼   ► scrappy nature of it you know it's just [TS]

00:46:14 ◼   ► it's something that otherwise it's very [TS]

00:46:17 ◼   ► campy like b-movie campy but in a really [TS]

00:46:21 ◼   ► admire away where it doesn't feel low [TS]

00:46:23 ◼   ► budget it just feels like you know the [TS]

00:46:27 ◼   ► like the scrappy up-and-comer who's [TS]

00:46:28 ◼   ► trying to make his way in the world and [TS]

00:46:30 ◼   ► you really respect it [TS]

00:46:31 ◼   ► I don't they should use it [TS]

00:46:33 ◼   ► like screenwriting classes because you [TS]

00:46:35 ◼   ► said that there's so many different [TS]

00:46:36 ◼   ► genres and that is the corny comedy the [TS]

00:46:38 ◼   ► superhero genre this like tragedy [TS]

00:46:40 ◼   ► there's this musical right but every one [TS]

00:46:42 ◼   ► of those elements is better than entire [TS]

00:46:45 ◼   ► shows that focus on that particular [TS]

00:46:46 ◼   ► moment their musical numbers are better [TS]

00:46:48 ◼   ► than other musical number one TV their [TS]

00:46:50 ◼   ► comedy is better than complete comedy [TS]

00:46:52 ◼   ► shows you don't mean and I i guess it's [TS]

00:46:54 ◼   ► just good writing good actors but since [TS]

00:46:55 ◼   ► it's so small and compressing absurd you [TS]

00:46:57 ◼   ► don't have to do all this exposition [TS]

00:46:59 ◼   ► connecting the dots and stuff because [TS]

00:47:00 ◼   ► the story kind of is very simple [TS]

00:47:02 ◼   ► every little one of those seems like you [TS]

00:47:04 ◼   ► have the the comedy monologue in the [TS]

00:47:05 ◼   ► beginning with no laugh track he knocks [TS]

00:47:07 ◼   ► it out of the park anyone who's setting [TS]

00:47:09 ◼   ► on how to do that [TS]

00:47:09 ◼   ► watch that scene figure it out right the [TS]

00:47:11 ◼   ► musical parts where you want to have a [TS]

00:47:13 ◼   ► musical number that fits in with the [TS]

00:47:14 ◼   ► story I mean that he's Rodgers and [TS]

00:47:15 ◼   ► Hammerstein or whatever but watch his [TS]

00:47:17 ◼   ► musical numbers he gets the job done [TS]

00:47:19 ◼   ► right with actors who generally can't [TS]

00:47:21 ◼   ► say except for patrick harris also those [TS]

00:47:23 ◼   ► musicals but uh you know it's such a [TS]

00:47:25 ◼   ► study and it's kind of almost showing [TS]

00:47:28 ◼   ► off like you know every genre that you [TS]

00:47:30 ◼   ► could possibly have a show i'm going to [TS]

00:47:31 ◼   ► all the 45 minutes all better than you [TS]

00:47:33 ◼   ► could possibly do the man here it is the [TS]

00:47:34 ◼   ► whole thing still holds together and [TS]

00:47:35 ◼   ► it's no budget and it's on the internet [TS]

00:47:37 ◼   ► yet and it just blows you away and i [TS]

00:47:39 ◼   ► watched it for free live on the days [TS]

00:47:40 ◼   ► that he put it out yeah I'm here [TS]

00:47:42 ◼   ► yeah but i'm going to give it we're just [TS]

00:47:44 ◼   ► going to give it away i bought that I [TS]

00:47:45 ◼   ► bought the DVD because I figured at the [TS]

00:47:48 ◼   ► very least I liked it so much that I [TS]

00:47:50 ◼   ► that I wanted to support them and give [TS]

00:47:52 ◼   ► them something back for it because I [TS]

00:47:54 ◼   ► didn't like it so I did end up buying [TS]

00:47:56 ◼   ► the DVD when they managed to make all [TS]

00:47:58 ◼   ► their money and quite a lot more from it [TS]

00:48:00 ◼   ► which was fantastic just and everyone [TS]

00:48:03 ◼   ► anyone who is a firefly nones idvd like [TS]

00:48:05 ◼   ► every time ago or someone's house i'm [TS]

00:48:06 ◼   ► shocked to see the dr horrible DVD on [TS]

00:48:08 ◼   ► their shelves now and they're gonna do [TS]

00:48:10 ◼   ► about it and 1a me if they made an enemy [TS]

00:48:12 ◼   ► category basically collection series [TS]

00:48:14 ◼   ► 2011 a category for you to keep you out [TS]

00:48:17 ◼   ► of competition with the worst shows that [TS]

00:48:18 ◼   ► are real show [TS]

00:48:19 ◼   ► well I actually was actually i don't [TS]

00:48:21 ◼   ► think that otherwise would have been [TS]

00:48:22 ◼   ► eligible John since it never actually [TS]

00:48:23 ◼   ► aired on television I now understand [TS]

00:48:26 ◼   ► like it like that the level of game is [TS]

00:48:28 ◼   ► so high they like what this is some [TS]

00:48:30 ◼   ► internet thing we have to [TS]

00:48:31 ◼   ► compartmentalize it or perhaps not even [TS]

00:48:33 ◼   ► exotic knowledge its existence you know [TS]

00:48:34 ◼   ► I think they don't want to me seemed [TS]

00:48:37 ◼   ► cooler by acknowledging its existence [TS]

00:48:38 ◼   ► and and saying no you're part of our [TS]

00:48:40 ◼   ► industry now even though we're topical [TS]

00:48:43 ◼   ► or topical yeah [TS]

00:48:44 ◼   ► but uh I think they are going to do [TS]

00:48:46 ◼   ► another doctor horrible at some point [TS]

00:48:47 ◼   ► all those pieces of work but they it [TS]

00:48:50 ◼   ► sounds like this is their hobby [TS]

00:48:51 ◼   ► basically on the side although the [TS]

00:48:53 ◼   ► rumors that it might actually be a film [TS]

00:48:55 ◼   ► that they might actually do a whole [TS]

00:48:57 ◼   ► thing instead of kind of going back to [TS]

00:48:59 ◼   ► the internet I i'm curious about how [TS]

00:49:02 ◼   ► they'll end up doing it and if they do [TS]

00:49:03 ◼   ► it as another web series or or if they [TS]

00:49:05 ◼   ► do get more budget and do it as [TS]

00:49:08 ◼   ► something bigger but it was you know it [TS]

00:49:10 ◼   ► I i had no expectations for it going [TS]

00:49:12 ◼   ► into it and I was really surprised [TS]

00:49:14 ◼   ► although i'm gonna fire off the spoiler [TS]

00:49:15 ◼   ► horn now there is there's that sound [TS]

00:49:20 ◼   ► so at the end of dr horrible he kills [TS]

00:49:23 ◼   ► penny and that was really controversial [TS]

00:49:26 ◼   ► and I'm just kind of curious what you [TS]

00:49:27 ◼   ► guys thought about I I'm used to just [TS]

00:49:29 ◼   ► we've been killing people and having it [TS]

00:49:30 ◼   ► be sad and not everything has to be feel [TS]

00:49:32 ◼   ► good but i know that a lot of people [TS]

00:49:33 ◼   ► were really upset was upset by that that [TS]

00:49:35 ◼   ► that makes the show i will tell you who [TS]

00:49:38 ◼   ► is upset that because i liked it and [TS]

00:49:40 ◼   ► again I like Jason I'm familiar enough [TS]

00:49:42 ◼   ► joss whedon that I kind of you know it [TS]

00:49:44 ◼   ► was unexpected but it was not after the [TS]

00:49:47 ◼   ► fact it was not like how could he do [TS]

00:49:48 ◼   ► that it was like a sweeper i convince my [TS]

00:49:51 ◼   ► mom to watch this and she loved it all [TS]

00:49:54 ◼   ► the way up through that because I'm not [TS]

00:49:57 ◼   ► ready for that it was not yet she'll I [TS]

00:50:00 ◼   ► mean she loved the rest of the things [TS]

00:50:01 ◼   ► she loved all the the comedy musical and [TS]

00:50:03 ◼   ► I like she was very impressed with the [TS]

00:50:04 ◼   ► writing and all of that you know and [TS]

00:50:06 ◼   ► it's a fairly hard sell for me to tell [TS]

00:50:08 ◼   ► my mother like watch this thing on the [TS]

00:50:09 ◼   ► internet it's great trust me and I think [TS]

00:50:12 ◼   ► I kind of felt like the rug pulled out [TS]

00:50:14 ◼   ► from her at the end there because [TS]

00:50:15 ◼   ► necessarily always likes addicts I think [TS]

00:50:18 ◼   ► we all have mother stories and I feel [TS]

00:50:19 ◼   ► like it's our job never to be that [TS]

00:50:21 ◼   ► mother like for instance my mother of [TS]

00:50:22 ◼   ► one of my favorite movies ever is a good [TS]

00:50:24 ◼   ► fellow so my mother cannot watch it [TS]

00:50:26 ◼   ► because of the language to playing with [TS]

00:50:27 ◼   ► just two bed that's all she sees a movie [TS]

00:50:30 ◼   ► all she sees a bunch of words [TS]

00:50:32 ◼   ► Joe Pesci's brains getting splattered a [TS]

00:50:34 ◼   ► crime now we're not a match just cannot [TS]

00:50:37 ◼   ► a length and thickness curse too much [TS]

00:50:39 ◼   ► it's unrealistic so your mother with its [TS]

00:50:42 ◼   ► realistic right the mods not as our [TS]

00:50:44 ◼   ► people there no one cares that much this [TS]

00:50:46 ◼   ► movie's anybody now so you have a guy [TS]

00:50:50 ◼   ► hanging in a frozen truck like a slab of [TS]

00:50:53 ◼   ► meat that's not the problem solve a land [TS]

00:50:55 ◼   ► never to be that person when our [TS]

00:50:56 ◼   ► children trying to show us something [TS]

00:50:57 ◼   ► from the hollow webs on our holo bands [TS]

00:51:00 ◼   ► or whatever this and i look forward to [TS]

00:51:02 ◼   ► all the web's agree yeah super great [TS]

00:51:05 ◼   ► worst hollow show you're not playing [TS]

00:51:10 ◼   ► implants and right car don't you know [TS]

00:51:12 ◼   ► how to do any dad I mean there were a [TS]

00:51:15 ◼   ► lot of talk that the psycho Joss [TS]

00:51:16 ◼   ► Whedon's killing another woman character [TS]

00:51:18 ◼   ► and he said misogynistic which I had to [TS]

00:51:20 ◼   ► laugh about just witnessed a police [TS]

00:51:22 ◼   ► sergeant person married but he does like [TS]

00:51:25 ◼   ► tormenting his characters and and when [TS]

00:51:26 ◼   ► you think about it from a I mean yes [TS]

00:51:29 ◼   ► emotionally it was so it was so [TS]

00:51:30 ◼   ► gut-wrenching because you're you know [TS]

00:51:32 ◼   ► you're hoping for a happy ending [TS]

00:51:33 ◼   ► right no he's gonna reveal his love for [TS]

00:51:35 ◼   ► her and she's gonna figure it out [TS]

00:51:37 ◼   ► and yet when you look back it's like [TS]

00:51:39 ◼   ► well what did we just see we just saw [TS]

00:51:40 ◼   ► the origin of dr horrible as a [TS]

00:51:43 ◼   ► supervillain this is what happened of [TS]

00:51:45 ◼   ► course he doesn't get the girl because [TS]

00:51:47 ◼   ► how do you make a supervillain out of [TS]

00:51:49 ◼   ► this guy is kind of a show of all it's [TS]

00:51:52 ◼   ► called the league table in the beginning [TS]

00:51:53 ◼   ► they sing to you a murderer would be [TS]

00:51:55 ◼   ► nice you know it's not like it's not [TS]

00:51:58 ◼   ► it's in the plot of the show it's not [TS]

00:52:00 ◼   ► you know it's the by the way is the evil [TS]

00:52:02 ◼   ► League of you can see the way it is the [TS]

00:52:04 ◼   ► idea that doubles there's another league [TS]

00:52:05 ◼   ► of evil and they're not so evil he's a [TS]

00:52:07 ◼   ► bad horse it's a very bad horse and [TS]

00:52:11 ◼   ► literally a horse you see how that was [TS]

00:52:12 ◼   ► that was not a great scene where they [TS]

00:52:14 ◼   ► show the actual horse standing like I [TS]

00:52:15 ◼   ► don't even know how they got that on [TS]

00:52:16 ◼   ► their budget the actual horse then [TS]

00:52:18 ◼   ► stamping from studio [TS]

00:52:19 ◼   ► yep did President to be perfectly honest [TS]

00:52:23 ◼   ► I think the shocking part of that show [TS]

00:52:25 ◼   ► is not that he kills penny it's the last [TS]

00:52:27 ◼   ► two seconds where you get you know you [TS]

00:52:30 ◼   ► get this big uplifted or uplifting evil [TS]

00:52:33 ◼   ► saw where he's like now I have [TS]

00:52:35 ◼   ► everyone's energy for now I have [TS]

00:52:36 ◼   ► everything you know what I feel nothing [TS]

00:52:38 ◼   ► I can go forward and I don't feel and [TS]

00:52:41 ◼   ► then it cuts to him in a sweatshirt [TS]

00:52:43 ◼   ► sitting in front of his camera looking [TS]

00:52:45 ◼   ► very sad of thing and it's the most [TS]

00:52:47 ◼   ► heart-wrenching thing it's like they're [TS]

00:52:49 ◼   ► here you realize that oh the death has [TS]

00:52:52 ◼   ► hit him [TS]

00:52:52 ◼   ► yeah you can also do that as the whole [TS]

00:52:54 ◼   ► thing was just a big you know allegory [TS]

00:52:56 ◼   ► for he did something horrible in his [TS]

00:52:57 ◼   ► real life has nothing to do with [TS]

00:52:59 ◼   ► superheroes and he's reimagined in terms [TS]

00:53:01 ◼   ► of supervillains and superheroes you [TS]

00:53:03 ◼   ► know to me like you could do also how [TS]

00:53:05 ◼   ► with that final scene you know I mean [TS]

00:53:06 ◼   ► you just blew my mind John well I'm of [TS]

00:53:09 ◼   ► course if they're going to continue the [TS]

00:53:10 ◼   ► series with him actually super villain [TS]

00:53:12 ◼   ► then it's harder to go with that but in [TS]

00:53:13 ◼   ► a standalone you can appreciate it on [TS]

00:53:15 ◼   ► that level pretty easily you know [TS]

00:53:16 ◼   ► there's a buffy episode where she wakes [TS]

00:53:18 ◼   ► up in a mental institution and they tell [TS]

00:53:20 ◼   ► me that everything that she's that's the [TS]

00:53:21 ◼   ► show is just her dream and her parents [TS]

00:53:23 ◼   ► are still alive and are still together [TS]

00:53:25 ◼   ► and are still happy and everybody's [TS]

00:53:27 ◼   ► everybody's good and and that's an [TS]

00:53:30 ◼   ► episode where in the end she insists on [TS]

00:53:34 ◼   ► making that decision between the red [TS]

00:53:35 ◼   ► pill or the blue pill and going back to [TS]

00:53:38 ◼   ► the show that you could totally read it [TS]

00:53:40 ◼   ► as being that this entire show is the [TS]

00:53:42 ◼   ► fantasy of a crazy girl [TS]

00:53:43 ◼   ► well of course there is a show there's [TS]

00:53:45 ◼   ► an episode also where there [TS]

00:53:47 ◼   ► it is quite legitimately the fantasy of [TS]

00:53:48 ◼   ► a somewhat of a crazy guy much Jonathan [TS]

00:53:52 ◼   ► oh yeah well that's true too so so yeah [TS]

00:53:55 ◼   ► they so ok John I'll I'll go with that [TS]

00:53:58 ◼   ► that's an interesting read I had never [TS]

00:53:59 ◼   ► really read that before I just I just [TS]

00:54:01 ◼   ► saying that's meant to be the primary [TS]

00:54:02 ◼   ► mentor you needed that if it's a percent [TS]

00:54:05 ◼   ► with the show if you decide to interpret [TS]

00:54:06 ◼   ► it that way I i don't think that that [TS]

00:54:08 ◼   ► was intentional but i do love the fact [TS]

00:54:10 ◼   ► that yes that the message really there [TS]

00:54:12 ◼   ► is that behind everybody who turns into [TS]

00:54:16 ◼   ► an evil supervillain well you know if [TS]

00:54:20 ◼   ► you apply a little bit of humanity to it [TS]

00:54:22 ◼   ► what you get is that something you know [TS]

00:54:23 ◼   ► something awful happened to make them [TS]

00:54:25 ◼   ► that way [TS]

00:54:26 ◼   ► I mean it's actually pretty good with [TS]

00:54:28 ◼   ► those bad guys in the show we talked [TS]

00:54:30 ◼   ► about people who are you talking about [TS]

00:54:31 ◼   ► on a previous podcast but he kind of [TS]

00:54:33 ◼   ► reminds me of unbreakable in that sense [TS]

00:54:35 ◼   ► yeah a little bit of an unbreakable guy [TS]

00:54:39 ◼   ► was kind of I don't know I feel like I [TS]

00:54:41 ◼   ► just draws his evil characters met not [TS]

00:54:44 ◼   ► as if they're better but getting back to [TS]

00:54:46 ◼   ► the bounty hunter bounty hunter is not [TS]

00:54:47 ◼   ► clearly nuts right but it is all the way [TS]

00:54:50 ◼   ► he's like a likeable character but you [TS]

00:54:52 ◼   ► can see that like there's something off [TS]

00:54:53 ◼   ► about him so it feels like if you saw [TS]

00:54:55 ◼   ► this person in real life this could be a [TS]

00:54:57 ◼   ► kind of person who goes around hijacking [TS]

00:54:59 ◼   ► ships and killing people and see a bad [TS]

00:55:00 ◼   ► person he's probably just crazy and [TS]

00:55:02 ◼   ► needs and as mentally disturbed but [TS]

00:55:04 ◼   ► that's the type of person who would do [TS]

00:55:05 ◼   ► this it's not somebody who was perfectly [TS]

00:55:07 ◼   ► well-adjusted but just for some reason [TS]

00:55:09 ◼   ► has their switch on the back on their [TS]

00:55:10 ◼   ► backs at the evil you know well to tell [TS]

00:55:12 ◼   ► i chalk lines and in in serenity the the [TS]

00:55:15 ◼   ► operative in surrender grant he's not a [TS]

00:55:18 ◼   ► he's the bad guy and he's a real badass [TS]

00:55:20 ◼   ► he kills lots of people but he's [TS]

00:55:22 ◼   ► actually not a bad guy he's just kind of [TS]

00:55:24 ◼   ► doing his job he's got his own little [TS]

00:55:25 ◼   ► moral code in his own ya know thing that [TS]

00:55:28 ◼   ► he loved that we love to write those [TS]

00:55:31 ◼   ► characters I mean to touch on dollhouse [TS]

00:55:32 ◼   ► for a bit there's a lot of that going on [TS]

00:55:35 ◼   ► in dollars we were gonna talk about my [TS]

00:55:37 ◼   ► god i wasn't something like a Scott [TS]

00:55:39 ◼   ► ended prematurely [TS]

00:55:40 ◼   ► yeah i was saying that by the time I [TS]

00:55:42 ◼   ► finished watching dr horrible and [TS]

00:55:43 ◼   ► firefly was a hundred percent on board [TS]

00:55:46 ◼   ► the weed and train and so when dollhouse [TS]

00:55:47 ◼   ► came out and you know was not very good [TS]

00:55:49 ◼   ► in various ways i just kept watching it [TS]

00:55:51 ◼   ► was like you you have greatness in you [TS]

00:55:54 ◼   ► this is not it [TS]

00:55:55 ◼   ► yeah but then you get to the end of [TS]

00:55:56 ◼   ► season one and you see a show an episode [TS]

00:55:58 ◼   ► like epitaph one jack [TS]

00:56:00 ◼   ► oh yeah like why wasn't the entire show [TS]

00:56:02 ◼   ► is and what he would do that it would [TS]

00:56:04 ◼   ► like site yet that is in there is a good [TS]

00:56:06 ◼   ► show but this is other show around it [TS]

00:56:08 ◼   ► that I don't like know the end there [TS]

00:56:10 ◼   ► there isn't a good show i think my take [TS]