The Incomparable

14: There`s Guacamole on the Holodeck


  despite gas is being recorded for [TS]

  quality assurance purposes to say to [TS]

  make sure we don't have any breathing [TS]

  three keep walkin [TS]

  ali-a game the incomparable podcast [TS]

  episode 44 this amber 2010 go to adjust [TS]

  your podcast this is uncomfortable I am [TS]

  NOT Jason's now amazingly no I am guest [TS]

  host Daniel or jason l couldn't be with [TS]

  us tonight for reasons that are better [TS]

  left on disclosed because then he'll [TS]

  yell at me if I make something up but [TS]

  we're here to talk about video games [TS]

  which is a topic we have not previously [TS]

  done on the uncomfortable [TS]

  joining me is a kind of a I think the [TS]

  only thing fair to call them as a [TS]

  rogue's gallery of incomparable [TS]

  contributors road was a great game [TS]

  yeah we have so we'll go down the list [TS]

  here we have Greg NOS how you doing Greg [TS]

  good about yourself i am doing pretty [TS]

  well we have Steve lots yata hey mixing [TS]

  it up a little bit [TS]

  that's right i'm in my hometown actually [TS]

  in Newton Massachusetts we have John [TS]

  siracusa good evening everybody and a [TS]

  new incomparable contributor a personal [TS]

  friend of mine Tony sindelar LTE i I'm [TS]

  so you have video games [TS]

  this is something we talked about a lot [TS]

  we talked about some books we talk about [TS]

  movies and TV but I think video games is [TS]

  a really important part of geek culture [TS]

  and I i know many of you are avid gamers [TS]

  some more recently in something in more [TS]

  of a vintage fashion but the answer [TS]

  curious to start off now just to see are [TS]

  you calling me old [TS]

  I yes yes I'm telling you everything [TS]

  nice does has been to I was being polite [TS]

  maybe I should dial this something start [TS]

  being real Tyler for classic I caught [TS]

  your effort that's where i'm with you [TS]

  somebody is with you [TS]

  ok thank God somebody's here so I'm here [TS]

  is where you guys two things one where [TS]

  you started out playing videos like so [TS]

  one of the earliest video games you [TS]

  remember playing and then maybe what [TS]

  you've been playing more recently [TS]

  or what you you know what system you use [TS]

  nowadays if any of you know and go [TS]

  around the table with that Greg what you [TS]

  got [TS]

  i started at the dawn of time i played [TS]

  the original space war i played in you [TS]

  know the arcade version in a Shakey's [TS]

  you could drill a hole in a quarter and [TS]

  put a string on it and rack up any [TS]

  number of credits that you wanted before [TS]

  they figured out to mount the whole [TS]

  vertically rather than horizontally [TS]

  that's a different sort of game [TS]

  yeah that's the classic shakeys and not [TS]

  this new Fang yeah you know this is this [TS]

  is the shakey's of 30 years ago they [TS]

  didn't have a ranch dressing background [TS]

  to dip your fries but we had ketchup and [TS]

  we liked it it was a hamster of world [TS]

  apparently I i played like the odyssey [TS]

  to I had an atari VCS the 2600 I am I [TS]

  remember when space invaders came out [TS]

  because it was the first game that had a [TS]

  lot of enemies rather than one little [TS]

  blip moving at you [TS]

  night driver all the all the old arcade [TS]

  games that's that's what I grew up on [TS]

  I'm retracting my vintage comment and [TS]

  just going back to old yeah Paleolithic [TS]

  i believe is the actual technical term [TS]

  and then I did it I i played regularly [TS]

  as I was growing up it's one of the [TS]

  reasons that i became a programmer's [TS]

  because I wanted to make my own and then [TS]

  just stopped got busy games became an [TS]

  investment of time that I just couldn't [TS]

  make any more for large part and that's [TS]

  changing with mobile stuff but man the [TS]

  the kids these days [TS]

  yeah there's there's certainly uh it's [TS]

  certainly become much more mainstream in [TS]

  some ways then than it ever has been [TS]

  before [TS]

  well i think that you know of my control [TS]

  like a solid black ops is is like the [TS]

  biggest media launch ever i was i was [TS]

  amused to see there was an entire week's [TS]

  worth of doing is very strips about it I [TS]

  mean that you know things are doing our [TS]

  mains are tightly it's really convenient [TS]

  when it happens because then like old [TS]

  people ask you about stuff I read in the [TS]

  news interior strips on Newton to some [TS]

  of his old people actually have to ask [TS]

  ourselves about it [TS]

  it's gotten that bad Steve what about [TS]

  you where did you start up I my first [TS]

  game system was pong and yeah the the [TS]

  black and white one that hooked up to [TS]

  your TV it was like one console paddles [TS]

  didn't even detach from the main console [TS]

  on my earliest memories is watching my [TS]

  brother defeat my uncle with his feet is [TS]

  that with pong or just in general that [TS]

  you know it wasn't a comfort food-type [TS]

  thing he was playing pong but it was a [TS]

  it was still a lasting a lasting image i [TS]

  actually have a super pong console in [TS]

  the other room [TS]

  it's the the one that came afterwards [TS]

  that has four games pong volleyball [TS]

  basketball and super palm well what the [TS]

  hell are we doing on this podcast break [TS]

  that out come on [TS]

  is that a magnavox item no no this is [TS]

  this is the Atari pong super pong it [TS]

  takes like 90 batteries you could kill [TS]

  somebody with it by saying that and now [TS]

  is it still functional because they used [TS]

  to make those things totally bulletproof [TS]

  me it is it is heavy as a brick and the [TS]

  only way I don't have an RF converter to [TS]

  hook it up to the back of the TV antenna [TS]

  you can hear the ratchets and gears [TS]

  because it's a very very tired squirrel [TS]

  who makes it go smell burning and then I [TS]

  kind of continued on you know had the [TS]

  VCS had the Nintendo when it came out I [TS]

  took a break during the college years to [TS]

  do some heavy drinking and then out when [TS]

  I came to my senses I kind of got back [TS]

  into gaming a little bit and I now that [TS]

  I've got kids that are growing up just [TS]

  high tech to begin with they are you [TS]

  know they're they're starting to get [TS]

  into it and I'm kind of finding a new [TS]

  lease on gaming watching them play stuff [TS]

  which is interesting but the most recent [TS]

  foray into gaming is I picked up a [TS]

  connect which is the new ya microcon a [TS]

  60 based motion tracking camera i'm [TS]

  fascinated York magic acid hear about [TS]

  this because I played I played a little [TS]

  bit of weed but I have not played the [TS]

  connected all I've actually a friend [TS]

  who's got one and was actually really [TS]

  pumped about it which was kind of [TS]

  surprised because he is you know not [TS]

  necessarily out like a hardcore gamer as [TS]

  it were but he certainly plays you know [TS]

  plenty xbox shooters things like that [TS]

  and so I was very curious value but he [TS]

  was really excited about [TS]

  dance central I guess which is one of [TS]

  the launch titles for Kinect and even [TS]

  said some of the other ones like [TS]

  collectibles were even kind of cool so [TS]

  I'm kind of fascinated by this but I [TS]

  don't know what to make of a quite yet [TS]

  I was really into my way for a while to [TS]

  and that Bob yeah that was during the [TS]

  college years as well that would be good [TS]

  sound bite for the end by the way when [TS]

  you use the word really pumped to in [TS]

  that I'm John how are you [TS]

  I think I'm like a little bit after the [TS]

  old folks here i didn't i didn't have [TS]

  pong but I my big barrier with my [TS]

  parents would not let me have a video [TS]

  game machine of any kind of my childhood [TS]

  so all I'll school you all my [TS]

  experiences with my friends so my first [TS]

  friend who had a video game thing hadn't [TS]

  already 2600 knows my first games and I [TS]

  played you know boom and night driver [TS]

  and stuff like that adventure but only [TS]

  when I was visiting over the house you [TS]

  have that type of thing and I don't [TS]

  remember being that excited about it [TS]

  matter they're neat put like I think I [TS]

  didn't really think the graphics for [TS]

  that great and then I just didn't I [TS]

  remember that a that impression then I i [TS]

  moved up through you know personal [TS]

  computers i get a pic 20 and stuff like [TS]

  that and then i got a Mac and I ended up [TS]

  being a mac gamer sort of by default [TS]

  because I didn't have I wasn't allowed [TS]

  to buy consoles so I play nes over my [TS]

  friends house and you know [TS]

  sega genesis and super nintendo and [TS]

  stuff like that but in my house all i [TS]

  had was the mac and so I bought tons and [TS]

  tons of mac games which is a weird way [TS]

  to sort of grew up as a gamer because it [TS]

  probably had a late [TS]

  well there was a lot of games believe me [TS]

  I mean I've got stuck up the boxes for [TS]

  them you know there are a lot of games [TS]

  most of them are horrible but and they [TS]

  were black and white right but they had [TS]

  really high resolution like that I [TS]

  resolution super drunk ass over here and [TS]

  put cafe that was a great that was a [TS]

  great show those ends to my friends who [TS]

  had consoles and and despite that I [TS]

  could they were black and white they're [TS]

  blown away but think about dark castle [TS]

  like me know nobody in console you could [TS]

  buy had that kind of resolution those [TS]

  kind of graphics and animation that kind [TS]

  of detail right it was just you know [TS]

  unearthly with mac games were like the [TS]

  mac software is there's a ton of detail [TS]

  that would go into it all the little [TS]

  Courtright weeks and you know you played [TS]

  dark castle and christmas and the suit [TS]

  of armor would turn into a Christmas [TS]

  tree [TS]

  yeah and another thing about it was that [TS]

  even even pc gaming like pc gaming with [TS]

  CGA and EGA you could actually get [TS]

  colors that were not teal and pink [TS]

  ribbon so I played pc games with my [TS]

  friends houses and you got a problem if [TS]

  you think you can still see the [TS]

  different you come back over the mac my [TS]

  black and white mac with a 9 inch screen [TS]

  and you know it was just amazing [TS]

  I kind of stayed and I get over a while [TS]

  and then you know eventually came out of [TS]

  it when I you don't want to college and [TS]

  could I got out of my parents house [TS]

  basically you can buy my own video game [TS]

  consoles for myself and just you know [TS]

  sailed off into the sunset of console [TS]

  modern console gaming modern pc / mac [TS]

  gaming Amish no more and someone is over [TS]

  but I mean I did play a lot of the NES [TS]

  classic and stuff like that but just all [TS]

  of our friends house so i didn't have [TS]

  the full experience but i do feel like i [TS]

  had this exotic it's like growing up on [TS]

  a tropical island this exotica gaming a [TS]

  you know crucible of growing up on mac [TS]

  games that get some pretty I mean I had [TS]

  a very similar experience in some ways [TS]

  but before I mentioned that like tony is [TS]

  one of my contemporaries what about [TS]

  where did you start out playing I think [TS]

  probably the first games I really then [TS]

  on boss games on a very old computer [TS]

  pretty windows and none of the names [TS]

  really stick with me [TS]

  um I mean I remember having floppy disks [TS]

  that would have like multiple games on [TS]

  them and you know they would be very [TS]

  simple i think one of the earliest thing [TS]

  I remember was an incredibly incredibly [TS]

  simplistic side-scroller we're like a [TS]

  little helicopter over out on the screen [TS]

  will go up and down [TS]

  um and I agonized a nintendo you know [TS]

  the late eighties people have the [TS]

  original Nintendo but i was also the [TS]

  moment my nintendo disappeared at a [TS]

  certain point because my parents thought [TS]

  to determine the video games or adding [TS]

  words I have two younger brothers and [TS]

  there was there was an incident with [TS]

  comment1 one day I was the end of that [TS]

  and you moved in with John at this point [TS]

  it just just for reference for most of [TS]

  us make our livings now with technology [TS]

  right yeah and well I and there were [TS]

  there was a strange kind of disconnect [TS]

  there in the video games were not okay [TS]

  but computer games were okay [TS]

  exactly my parents never saw that [TS]

  loophole either like they wouldn't let [TS]

  me get a video game has all but all i do [TS]

  is play video games on my computer all [TS]

  began [TS]

  Peter wasn't like you like dedicated to [TS]

  guess that might as well have been for [TS]

  you know forget no games and mac paint [TS]

  basically apparently never stop party [TS]

  girls on the c64 strip poker on the [TS]

  Atari 400 all yeah it was like when you [TS]

  try to regulate anything that you don't [TS]

  quite understand i was also not allowed [TS]

  to play violent video games so much of [TS]

  my game passed from the late eighties [TS]

  and and into the nineties would've been [TS]

  a graphic adventures by lucasarts and [TS]

  Sarah we're kind of foundation of that I [TS]

  remember when I LucasArts game dark [TS]

  forces came out which is basically Star [TS]

  Wars doom that that was like there was [TS]

  there was a great risk there because you [TS]

  know I knew I was not allowed to play [TS]

  violent video games but I'm very very [TS]

  very very very much wanted to play [TS]

  resources because you know Star Wars but [TS]

  so yeah there's kind of a disparity [TS]

  there i had a very similar experience [TS]

  and in some ways in that i did not have [TS]

  a computer until I was probably you know [TS]

  like 90 91 or something like that [TS]

  i canna I can't imagine you ever [TS]

  consider but before that I got a I ended [TS]

  up with the with an original nintendo [TS]

  and the only reason that happened as i [TS]

  found out many years later was because [TS]

  my dad actually want it at a like [TS]

  supermarket like like sweepstakes thing [TS]

  so he won like an original nintendo it [TS]

  came with like three or four games [TS]

  including Zelda the original zelda super [TS]

  mario brothers and a couple other like a [TS]

  couple of those nice nes advantage [TS]

  controllers out and I was super psyched [TS]

  right because you know I i never thought [TS]

  i was going to get a video game system [TS]

  but then I had the disappointing [TS]

  experience of realizing that i was [TS]

  really very bad most video games on the [TS]

  original nintendo which I'll argue are a [TS]

  lot of work a lot harder than they are [TS]

  today I mean a lot of games didn't have [TS]

  any way to save anything or you know the [TS]

  only way they have ensuring longevity [TS]

  was by making them hard so i would i [TS]

  would intent like complete repeatedly [TS]

  falling pits and just be so like [TS]

  frustrated taking me hours to get to [TS]

  that point or whatever that I would just [TS]

  throw it down in frustration i think [TS]

  there was still very much to develop [TS]

  design ethos from arcade games where [TS]

  by making it difficult EU generated more [TS]

  money [TS]

  yeah well then you have to justify the [TS]

  40 bucks she dropped on the game but it [TS]

  wasn't that bad because they they they [TS]

  did have games that you could finish and [TS]

  yes a day or two right they weren't like [TS]

  arcade games are really there was no [TS]

  kill screen at the end right this is [TS]

  treats alba and it means elbows one of [TS]

  the first games actually have saving on [TS]

  the cart but the key was you just the [TS]

  select button you could pause for days [TS]

  and days as you tried to sleep with the [TS]

  fear that your brother was gonna go in [TS]

  there your friend accidentally hit the [TS]

  power button on your lost the game [TS]

  that's been paused you know and they [TS]

  weren't even there were the idea kind of [TS]

  rudimentary things where they wouldn't [TS]

  have saved games but they would let you [TS]

  have load states i remember that i could [TS]

  become a good man to have like a grid [TS]

  with dots [TS]

  yeah and i remember having like sheets [TS]

  of those in my house is your tribe is [TS]

  Megan to you could choose different [TS]

  paths in terms of which bosses you'd [TS]

  fight first and they were optimal build [TS]

  orders and I'd have liked the tax paper [TS]

  different permutations and it's i think [TS]

  at one point I was trying to guess track [TS]

  things in that you know it didn't work [TS]

  out [TS]

  yeah i would throw that I went from [TS]

  Nintendo to the to the mac kind of like [TS]

  kind of like John and I i remember [TS]

  having my first very disappointing [TS]

  experience out right after we got our [TS]

  first computer i took my dad out to the [TS]

  software store that was blocks away and [TS]

  we bought this like D&D game and I took [TS]

  it home and didn't realize until I got [TS]

  home that was a pc only game and that [TS]

  was just crushing because i really [TS]

  wanted to play it out [TS]

  you won that round in that software [TS]

  store probably not there anymore [TS]

  thatthat's offer story is totally out of [TS]

  not a lot of Babbage's hanging around [TS]

  yeah that was it was an egghead software [TS]

  that oh interesting outright or just yes [TS]

  right there [TS]

  yeah i'm gonna County like head [TS]

  commander keen six there i worked at a [TS]

  software etc for a year and a half [TS]

  oh yeah yeah I'm sorry i was paying [TS]

  penance for something yeah but I had a [TS]

  buddy who worked at software etc in in [TS]

  the mall by my house and he would take [TS]

  games home and play them and shrink wrap [TS]

  there was company policy you take [TS]

  anything home and there was a [TS]

  shrink-wrap machine and was I ever [TS]

  envious of that is that considered you [TS]

  just a job education yeah you could do [TS]

  that in two [TS]

  so very recently a gamestop even I think [TS]

  they got in trouble like within the last [TS]

  two years [TS]

  yeah you're not supposed to sample your [TS]

  wares I thought I thought that wasn't [TS]

  like cardinal rule we talking about the [TS]

  we again didn't you play out like text [TS]

  adventures I remember because I was [TS]

  thinking my very one of my earliest [TS]

  memories was going over to a friend's [TS]

  house and playing some tax base das game [TS]

  that was basically a really it was text [TS]

  sort of adventure but it was clearly a [TS]

  star wars knock off like it was rescue a [TS]

  princess from this space station before [TS]

  the space station like blows up or [TS]

  something and you could get this they [TS]

  called it a vorpal blade in my coma [TS]

  lamashtu Jabberwocky i guess but it was [TS]

  basically a light saver but I have this [TS]

  very vivid memory of playing at a [TS]

  friend's house when I was probably in [TS]

  likes like first or second grade Vietnam [TS]

  and then there's course I played some [TS]

  Zork you know whenever I basically i [TS]

  remember hopping around like whenever my [TS]

  parents would take me to these sort of [TS]

  family friends house or some sort of [TS]

  distant cousins or something and they [TS]

  want to entertain me they stick me in [TS]

  the room with like the computer or [TS]

  whatever and I would figure out why [TS]

  whatever game was on there so I played [TS]

  like aphids orc that way and a few other [TS]

  things as well there was a golden period [TS]

  of text adventures they were they were [TS]

  all pretty lousy but they were coming [TS]

  out like three or four a day it seemed [TS]

  it was after infocomm had started and [TS]

  kind of bootstrap the industry and the [TS]

  interest in them but then like Scott [TS]

  Adams the scott adams text adventures [TS]

  there were 20 or 30 of them that came [TS]

  out and then the sierra on-line also did [TS]

  that the princess and the [TS]

  something-or-other they were they [TS]

  started within the present within the [TS]

  princess has introduced graphics the top [TS]

  of the screen that would that would take [TS]

  three or four seconds to draw graphics [TS]

  that they amusingly referred to as high [TS]

  resident yeah the Apple to in looking at [TS]

  black and white stick figures with [TS]

  knives spirit through them i had a head [TS]

  you freak me out with the info comping [TS]

  just because i have memories of being an [TS]

  engineer high school in the computer [TS]

  labs after school and we were trying to [TS]

  beat the Hitchhiker's Guide infocomm [TS]

  adventure and I was that was a tough one [TS]

  that's a hard game was the first games [TS]

  that lied to you yeah we got second part [TS]

  with the babble that's a cheap that's a [TS]

  cheap game oh yes that was I mean that [TS]

  was the thing where it we got stuck in [TS]

  the room of the babelfish and like you [TS]

  know you trust like five minutes [TS]

  into the game yeah and so you try the [TS]

  entire damn light put the towel over the [TS]

  great Florida Fish Hooks under the [TS]

  talent is out satchel in front of the [TS]

  robot thing and the mail on top of the [TS]

  satchel so it flies through the air and [TS]

  the airborne robot catches the mail and [TS]

  doesn't get the babelfish in their lands [TS]

  in your ear [TS]

  well I don't know that's the backlight [TS]

  earlier i'm sorry i often get the horn [TS]

  yeah we got all this have beaten that [TS]

  puzzle yeah but what part of you're [TS]

  killing her and what information could [TS]

  be in that part of your brain is taken [TS]

  up with memories of hitchhikers [TS]

  it's either that or abba lyrics i found [TS]

  that thing is a dedicated slot actually [TS]

  nothing else will fit their you spend [TS]

  long enough working at something you you [TS]

  you keep it [TS]

  they ported the secret of monkey island [TS]

  on which is one of my favorite games of [TS]

  all times like 1992 the the xbox 360 and [TS]

  i bought it was I felt a little indict [TS]

  about you know finding it again [TS]

  um but I think I've got further [TS]

  indignant when I replayed the entire [TS]

  game that took me I think like a summer [TS]

  as you know like a twelve-year-old I [TS]

  replayed in like two hours because I [TS]

  remembered the answer to every single [TS]

  possible not the puzzles were easy for [TS]

  an adult Tony to figure out like they [TS]

  were burned into my head well that's a [TS]

  testament to the really good games a lot [TS]

  of these adventures are big part of my [TS]

  life too because how just having a Mac [TS]

  didn't have lots of you know grants you [TS]

  a text adventure so I remember they had [TS]

  parts of Apple to stuff like [TS]

  Transylvania and the Crimson crown those [TS]

  are also apple two games but they were [TS]

  basically text adventures with a little [TS]

  graphic so you're sitting there typing [TS]

  you know your little commands and [TS]

  everything [TS]

  the uninvited Shadowgate and i remember [TS]

  those because again it was like at that [TS]

  age the solving one of those puzzles [TS]

  yourself just like alters your brain and [TS]

  interesting ways i still remember you [TS]

  know some of them are actually not like [TS]

  shadow gamestop had things are you drag [TS]

  some item on top of another item is part [TS]

  of the puzzle and it wasn't it wasn't [TS]

  just typing something that's that's that [TS]

  these games that the ones that you [TS]

  remind my plate hundreds of games i mean [TS]

  back back when I had my Atari 402 that [TS]

  instead of having a childhood I i play [TS]

  dozens and dozens and dozens of games [TS]

  and I remember a few of them but the [TS]

  ones that i remember i had have a [TS]

  greater place in my mind then like a lot [TS]

  of movies or books or or relatives or [TS]

  friends well there's something about the [TS]

  whole the the interactive nature of it i [TS]

  think because like like John saying with [TS]

  solving the puzzles you get you get [TS]

  engaged in a way you don't necessarily [TS]

  when you're a passive reader or a [TS]

  passive you know audience member [TS]

  watching a movie but like if you do [TS]

  something you know use some sort of [TS]

  procedural action than it really does [TS]

  stick with you i remember playing [TS]

  deadline for the first time I ordered it [TS]

  I bought it was $15 and I and it came [TS]

  and they used to come in in custom packs [TS]

  it was a dossier that was sealed shut [TS]

  with a no crime sticker and you open it [TS]

  up and there was no crime scene evidence [TS]

  and photos and it was just one had pills [TS]

  I really yes the pills the lien put into [TS]

  the the tea that killed mr. robin turner [TS]

  i'm at the game sounds awesome i kinda [TS]

  want to play that started a cave and [TS]

  it-it-it I I'm I mean it's what gosh 25 [TS]

  years later and I did I still profoundly [TS]

  remember it i mean and and this survivor [TS]

  lets you know to segue a little bit into [TS]

  the the current state of gaming I'm very [TS]

  i find it very interesting how it seems [TS]

  like gaming today is both a a much [TS]

  larger world just in general mean it [TS]

  like we talked about earlier it's gotten [TS]

  much more mainstream and it encompasses [TS]

  all sorts of things from mobile gaming [TS]

  to console gaming to computer gaming to [TS]

  online you know web gaming that kind of [TS]

  stuff but in some ways the mainstream of [TS]

  it has become very almost wrote in the [TS]

  same way that that mainstream film has I [TS]

  think I mean you know you see a lot of [TS]

  titles that are very repetitive and they [TS]

  followed into a similar formula you know [TS]

  a first-person shooter a strategy game [TS]

  on RPG that kind of thing and it seems [TS]

  like there's not a lot of innovation [TS]

  there so I mean the big development [TS]

  houses keep rehashing the same [TS]

  properties which is very similar to what [TS]

  happens in Hollywood right now [TS]

  well the budgets have gotten so big that [TS]

  they are Hollywood movies they have [TS]

  launches and if you don't make it in the [TS]

  first couple weeks you're dead and you [TS]

  may have invested fifty million dollars [TS]

  and and you know 300 man years in [TS]

  developing this thing and so you're not [TS]

  going to take a risk and but every once [TS]

  in a while you get one of those indie [TS]

  hits right yeah you get something like [TS]

  minecraft which is the game a lot of [TS]

  people been talking about recently [TS]

  that's just you know some guy made this [TS]

  game right because it was zero risk [TS]

  right most of the big studios do it to [TS]

  like valve that portal right and it's [TS]

  just lonely [TS]

  in reality no students to Paul a while [TS]

  he acquired them it's the same things [TS]

  like Miramax you know like the big [TS]

  studios find someone with with a good [TS]

  idea and give them a little bit of money [TS]

  and maybe it's a hit and it happens in [TS]

  movies 2 is just you know like to look [TS]

  at clerks for example that's an example [TS]

  of an indie hit that you know I went on [TS]

  to let the person go on to greater [TS]

  things or maybe lesser things many [TS]

  haven't really had that happen for [TS]

  another that's for another podcast yeah [TS]

  but there's lots of you know Hollywood [TS]

  does exactly the same thing stances that [TS]

  that whole system exists adjusted in [TS]

  gaming it seems like people are more [TS]

  reliably able to make money off the [TS]

  generic stuff and so like like woman [TS]

  generic hollywood movies flop flop a lot [TS]

  more often than generic first-person [TS]

  shooters do i feel like because if you [TS]

  make high-quality triple a first-person [TS]

  shooter game for the xbox with a good [TS]

  license with intellectual property [TS]

  you'll make your money back it's like a [TS]

  solid earner you don't have one of those [TS]

  very rarely do you have one of those 50 [TS]

  million dollar games come out and [TS]

  totally flopped but you can have a [TS]

  hundred-million-dollar movie like Ishtar [TS]

  come out and make like nothing now so I [TS]

  think they're they're sticking to the [TS]

  formula more just because their success [TS]

  rate is higher than the Hollywood guys [TS]

  are want to stick to the formula that's [TS]

  one reason i'm excited about like the [TS]

  smaller mobile games like on the iphone [TS]

  is they aren't as big a risk and they [TS]

  can really experiment with gameplay [TS]

  there's a lot of really weird stuff on [TS]

  the iphone that's fun and doesn't [TS]

  require a 60 or 80 our investment or [TS]

  sixty or eighty dollar investment and [TS]

  and the expectation from the the gamer [TS]

  is for the quality of graphics the [TS]

  length of the game are a lot more [TS]

  reasonable for one person or a small [TS]

  group of people can actually construct [TS]

  it's kind of a different audience to [TS]

  because we touch interface it makes [TS]

  people not be like member when people [TS]

  tried to make Lego Space Invaders your [TS]

  iphone and you know Gallagher if you're [TS]

  gonna kind of works but it's like that's [TS]

  not you know all the conventional games [TS]

  of the gaming developers have been [TS]

  making for you know decades you can make [TS]

  those for the iphone you can but their [TS]

  crap you have to you have to think of [TS]

  something know which is interesting [TS]

  because it's one of the examples of how [TS]

  technology I think you know a lot of the [TS]

  technology has in some ways exactly stay [TS]

  the same but its progress along logical [TS]

  lines right we've gone to higher and [TS]

  higher [TS]

  resolution displays you know we've gone [TS]

  to to better physics engines that kind [TS]

  of stuff but i think you know the the [TS]

  interactive part of it with the [TS]

  touchscreen both on the the iphone and [TS]

  you know the other smartphones as well [TS]

  as things like the nintendo dsi the dsi [TS]

  was that was really interesting as a [TS]

  platform just because it clearly was [TS]

  nintendo trying to you know a whole [TS]

  bunch of really different technologies [TS]

  because they did their games that [TS]

  involve touch their games involve [TS]

  microphone you know they really played [TS]

  with with all the conventions that we [TS]

  had become established you that's what [TS]

  we did to was introduced new interface [TS]

  conventions and the kinect was always [TS]

  been willing to do crazy remember [TS]

  virtual boy didn't work out for them but [TS]

  it but they've always been willing to [TS]

  say I'm i'll stick a camera on there put [TS]

  on goggles in order before the thing you [TS]

  strap on your arm or you know I mean [TS]

  sometimes they work sometimes it don't [TS]

  they're kind of people are kind of [TS]

  dismissive at least hardcore gamers are [TS]

  dismissive of casual gaming but it every [TS]

  time I try and play hardcore gamers game [TS]

  i get my ass handed to me because I [TS]

  haven't invested a significant portion [TS]

  of my life just becoming competent now [TS]

  you're a casual gamer well it's it's a [TS]

  whole different game that sunday jewel I [TS]

  always realize that whenever i play you [TS]

  know we'll all play a you know shooters [TS]

  of my friends online or whatever and [TS]

  every once in a while will venture out [TS]

  into the wilds of the internet and [TS]

  totally get get ripped just because I if [TS]

  we don't know i mean there's a whole [TS]

  nother level of game there that we [TS]

  weren't even aware of and i find that [TS]

  exhilarating still though because I [TS]

  still I still like you're not getting [TS]

  your ass handed to you because I can't [TS]

  reach it I think she's feeling is not [TS]

  like I feel like I'm still a contender a [TS]

  little bit like you notice i like for [TS]

  example when I'm real tournament 2004 [TS]

  came out like I I didn't have time to [TS]

  play games lot of whatever but I had [TS]

  first person shooter skills kind of [TS]

  honed by in like quick an hour back in [TS]

  those days in a little bit of doom right [TS]

  so i play unreal tournament 2004 during [TS]

  my lunch break with my co-workers right [TS]

  and then we'd go online and play people [TS]

  and we weren't the best but we weren't [TS]

  the worst week we could hang in there [TS]

  with the crazy 12 year olds playing [TS]

  constantly and there's something [TS]

  exhilarating about that level of sort of [TS]

  Darwinian survival of the fittest like [TS]

  there's no hand-holding there's no [TS]

  coddling it that you can play with them [TS]

  are you can't and if you can't it's no I [TS]

  think that's why even you can't it's no [TS]

  fun but it's like it's like playing like [TS]

  a sport you know [TS]

  yeah like you're just like what [TS]

  that ball with Shaquille O'Neal or [TS]

  something what would not even because [TS]

  it's other its other just other people [TS]

  just like you but there's no there's no [TS]

  hand-holding you're coddling there's no [TS]

  like Oh everyone gets a trophy which you [TS]

  see a lot of in many aspects of life [TS]

  gaming you know what I want to transmit [TS]

  dammit right where you know all we just [TS]

  were just here to have fun and we're [TS]

  both know this is cutthroat competition [TS]

  and I really love that corner is still [TS]

  there and that occasionally i can i can [TS]

  i can be on the same field with them and [TS]

  not not feel like i can guarantee that [TS]

  it not only real not get a trophy you [TS]

  will probably get many other unpleasant [TS]

  things done to you can always want you [TS]

  and Congressman working avidly at [TS]

  finding some way to level the playing [TS]

  field for all video game players but [TS]

  plus as someone with a son I really feel [TS]

  like I have to keep up these skills [TS]

  because it's my job to for as long as I [TS]

  possibly can dominate him and all gaming [TS]

  actually said was right until the coming [TS]

  of age when he finally beats his father [TS]

  you want that to be an experience you [TS]

  wanted to be like always for now you can [TS]

  be just that i don't know i still have [TS]

  my dad's chest and I'm 30 [TS]

  well you know that's a different kind of [TS]

  game but I can i use the only game i [TS]

  think i ever convince my dad to play [TS]

  with me was our c program on the [TS]

  original nintendo and I definitely [TS]

  rocked him on that because you have no [TS]

  idea what's going on do you think that's [TS]

  a different thing with this generation [TS]

  in the are in general our children are [TS]

  doing things that we enjoyed his [TS]

  children whereas i was not doing things [TS]

  to my father enjoyed but just because [TS]

  there was not like no technology was [TS]

  like rollerskating rolling a hoop [TS]

  wherever the hell he was doing his [TS]

  girlfriend riding a bicycle with a big [TS]

  front wheel in a tiny backwards so you [TS]

  know but I'm but my son is watching Star [TS]

  Wars movies my son is playing through [TS]

  you know when Waker now game that I [TS]

  played When I was you know in my [TS]

  twenties you don't say it's kinda weird [TS]

  to be raising kids in an age where they [TS]

  actually do things that their parents [TS]

  did and god I hope I want to don't have [TS]

  your back into the motion controls [TS]

  question because I think that the the [TS]

  casual gaming is an interesting field in [TS]

  that there's I mean of course nintendo [TS]

  came out with the we like two thousand [TS]

  six or so and you know there was kind of [TS]

  a lot of derision from especially the [TS]

  hardcore gamers as we were saying but [TS]

  now intend over China [TS]

  I mean the name didn't help that i love [TS]

  sure but i think and now everything all [TS]

  the other major console people are are [TS]

  copying them right i mean sony came out [TS]

  with a motion-sensitive controller and [TS]

  now Microsoft sort of up the ante with [TS]

  the kinect can argue with a barrel full [TS]

  of cash yeah if they sold a billion of [TS]

  them that there was a great cover to [TS]

  edge magazine that had a golden Nintendo [TS]

  Wiimote on it said who dares wins which [TS]

  is basically nintendo was the one who [TS]

  dared because they were in last place in [TS]

  1000 was at the added the least to lose [TS]

  and so they they did the move that the [TS]

  movie with the most guts and it paid off [TS]

  for them [TS]

  well we was a genius idea really for [TS]

  them i mean that they realized they [TS]

  couldn't compete on a purely [TS]

  technological level with sony and and [TS]

  and microsoft and and they really didn't [TS]

  even want to try because those two [TS]

  systems are so similar [TS]

  you know just these high-powered [TS]

  graphics pushers and I would compete [TS]

  with that with the graphics with the [TS]

  game in a gamecube generation the [TS]

  gamecube was held its own with with you [TS]

  know I was in between us to the xbox and [TS]

  ps3 controller but we got the righted [TS]

  for basically being too GameCubes [TS]

  duct-taped together [TS]

  well I mean it wasn't it was just one [TS]

  game cube but the thing is they they [TS]

  lost in the market they couldn't sell [TS]

  games they weren't making money they [TS]

  were in last place money-wise not [TS]

  technology-wise like you know because [TS]

  they don't make me have the same guys [TS]

  make their chips you know in that [TS]

  generation IBM made all the cpu this [TS]

  point is not that they they could not [TS]

  have competed on the technological [TS]

  friend obviously could read a bunch of [TS]

  graphics chips into a box and attempted [TS]

  to compete but i think they saw that the [TS]

  market was glutted with with the with [TS]

  pixel pushing monsters like the xbox and [TS]

  the the ps3 and they've always kind of [TS]

  leaned towards this approach that [TS]

  differs from from what Sony and [TS]

  Microsoft which is it Sony Microsoft [TS]

  will take a loss on the hardware upfront [TS]

  and make all their money on the [TS]

  licensing the games on the back end [TS]

  whereas Nintendo's on opening you know [TS]

  this this this wide-open casual market [TS]

  that was starting to burgeon and decided [TS]

  you know rather than try and produce a [TS]

  third more of the same kind of gaming [TS]

  console let's try something else we [TS]

  won't bother trying to [TS]

  overcome the others with our graphics [TS]

  and and will actually make a profit on [TS]

  the console before we even get around to [TS]

  taking our our skin off of the games [TS]

  well then intent always made a profit on [TS]

  their hardware if they could they also [TS]

  made a profit on the games that then [TS]

  they were the king for a while but it [TS]

  took two generations of them coming in [TS]

  last in terms of sales that they [TS]

  nintendo 64 there in last place gamecube [TS]

  there in last place and you know it's [TS]

  not for let's look at the hardware the [TS]

  game two harbors quality harbor they [TS]

  just they were just losing and it took a [TS]

  little head nod third-party lesson that [TS]

  you know yeah bring it down to third [TS]

  parties because they added couldn't [TS]

  attract other other developers onto [TS]

  their consoles and and meanwhile sony [TS]

  and microsoft we're locking up by you [TS]

  know buying rare and Squaresoft and all [TS]

  the other big third-party developers [TS]

  while Nintendo's appeal has always been [TS]

  all your much of Nintendo's bill has [TS]

  always been there [TS]

  the first party titles right the [TS]

  franchise's like zelda and mario right [TS]

  now because they made all the money on [TS]

  those right like they controlled [TS]

  everything remember they used to charge [TS]

  third parties to make the content [TS]

  cartridges for yeah they had those seals [TS]

  on the right right is that you your [TS]

  third-party you had to give some huge [TS]

  amount of your money to nintendo and you [TS]

  also to pay them to build your [TS]

  cartridges they made a profit and [TS]

  everything like they wanted that sounds [TS]

  like another company i could name but [TS]

  yeah they are very natural like in that [TS]

  regard on the kind of had the same fall [TS]

  where it's like well you know that [TS]

  business used to be a winner but now now [TS]

  that style of business is a loser [TS]

  because no one wants to work with you [TS]

  they want to work rise competitors so [TS]

  they don't you just come when all they [TS]

  had was their first party titles and [TS]

  that was it i mean by the time the [TS]

  gamecube came out you you either bought [TS]

  nintendo first parties or you went and [TS]

  played your friends xbox it sounds like [TS]

  a decade there of them trying and losing [TS]

  so it's not quite as Noble as it might [TS]

  seem a retrospective like Oh nintendo [TS]

  had a better idea nintendo was screwed [TS]

  right name that you know and that [TS]

  because they had so little to lose and [TS]

  they were backed into a corner [TS]

  they said all right forget they [TS]

  basically bet the company on the week is [TS]

  that was about the company move that got [TS]

  a new CEO is that I'm going to do this [TS]

  crazy thing everyone thought was crazy [TS]

  you know the before you know that you [TS]

  want to introduce the week at the like [TS]

  you're doing what with the what now it's [TS]

  a remote-control you are so dead they [TS]

  weren't that you know they never gonna [TS]

  live this raises increase interesting [TS]

  question to me though which is now that [TS]

  sony and microsoft have both made their [TS]

  own moves into the same sort of realm is [TS]

  there room for all of these different [TS]

  companies to survive because I mean I i [TS]

  know people who have we a we and I just [TS]

  I feel like I don't hear about [TS]

  constantly compelling titles coming out [TS]

  for the content for the console and I [TS]

  think unfortunately the we suckers now [TS]

  30 minutes it's kind of like back where [TS]

  the PlayStation and Xbox where the way [TS]

  is a popular platform that there's a [TS]

  glut of junks Oscar for it [TS]

  people call it we shuffle where they're [TS]

  always was [TS]

  there's so many people developing for [TS]

  the wii and in some ways it's you know [TS]

  the graphic standards are lower the way [TS]

  there's just there's a ton of garbage [TS]

  out now but we has the interesting [TS]

  problem is sort of like the nintendo 64 [TS]

  on gamecube problem where it's like well [TS]

  the first party titles are great but the [TS]

  third party ones are not great and [TS]

  before I was third party ones around [TS]

  great just because they didn't have the [TS]

  games but now they have you know [TS]

  shovelware they just have the bad ports [TS]

  and it's still it's kind of must be from [TS]

  different vendors say we we sold the [TS]

  most consoles we have the huge installed [TS]

  base we crushed our competitors and we [TS]

  still have only great first-party titles [TS]

  and not great third-party titles [TS]

  well it's interesting too because this [TS]

  is this is very similar to what happened [TS]

  back in 1986 or 88 are 87 or so when [TS]

  that when they have the big video game [TS]

  crash I mean there were there were [TS]

  boatloads of third-party titles coming [TS]

  out from every way for the nintendo and [TS]

  karina chase the chuck wagon that was an [TS]

  atari 2600 title that was the previous [TS]

  crash and it kind of makes me wonder if [TS]

  we're not about to see something similar [TS]

  i mean i-i think we have the outlet of [TS]

  mobile to prevent that crash because I [TS]

  think you're just people shift the [TS]

  dollars because the explosion of mobile [TS]

  gaming shows it's not just gonna like go [TS]

  away go like gaming gaming is now is now [TS]

  too-big-to-fail basically like it's too [TS]

  diverse you can't kill it is too big to [TS]

  fail as a bad analogy it's more like I [TS]

  can make her like you can you can chop [TS]

  off all the combos and make every [TS]

  console makers fail right but it doesn't [TS]

  matter because game has got its claws [TS]

  into everything you can never get rid of [TS]

  it maybe like Blackmore we gonna sexy [TS]

  you keep taking showers on your mind [TS]

  your mind again now there's a real black [TS]

  mold is going on you know are we gonna [TS]

  start to see a government meeting with a [TS]

  video game sometimes that's what may be [TS]

  a doormat bailout video game I would bet [TS]

  that that is it just because I did you [TS]

  say that giving is like a black hole [TS]

  like guacamole it was a little looking [TS]

  all over thinking of you know what gets [TS]

  into your house and you just can't get [TS]

  it out it's going to burn the house and [TS]

  I really any point is that you killed [TS]

  all the consoles like gaming would still [TS]

  be alive if it's not going to be like [TS]

  wasn't cocky ladies you know the podcast [TS]

  of misplaced analogies I think we'll [TS]

  concentrate III yeah i know i think that [TS]

  the the we is is definitely going to see [TS]

  a lot of challenge from microsoft and [TS]

  sony but i don't i don't know are people [TS]

  really that desirous of like you know [TS]

  standing around protecting their arms is [TS]

  that is that something that appeals to [TS]

  people with us keep buying them they [TS]

  sure as hell bought a lot of them right [TS]

  at me [TS]

  dan I don't know about you but I'm [TS]

  flapping my arms of right now and it's [TS]

  not tonight right [TS]

  I mean I'm not gonna sales time like I [TS]

  can tell you that was like you know the [TS]

  third johnny-come-lately the third one [TS]

  the last guy to get emotional and they [TS]

  still sold a billion of money you know [TS]

  it was like a million and a half of the [TS]

  first month like that selling electronic [TS]

  scheduled ever [TS]

  yeah I don't know they sold a lot and I [TS]

  wonder part of that is I mean they sort [TS]

  of took it to the next level right both [TS]

  with Sony 101 require the you know your [TS]

  controllers that you're moving around [TS]

  and Microsoft like screw that we're [TS]

  going to go straight to just you know [TS]

  you know it's just you you are the [TS]

  controller and so I mean I i don't know [TS]

  i have not like I said I'm played one I [TS]

  know nothing about you know its merits [TS]

  or what have you but that seems like [TS]

  another pretty it seems like they're [TS]

  trying to take it to the next level [TS]

  trying to one-up them right well I can [TS]

  tell you that they're their marketing [TS]

  work gangbusters because my [TS]

  four-year-old before we bought the thing [TS]

  was walking around the house for days [TS]

  saying with kinectimals you are the [TS]

  controller that is kind of kind of [TS]

  terrifying action was very distressing [TS]

  for me personally and get you went out [TS]

  and got one anyways I was amped he was [TS]

  and what what is it about that appeals [TS]

  to you i mean i'm curious is it just you [TS]

  know I think after whatever spend 30 odd [TS]

  years of gaming I i'm interested in [TS]

  giving the new stuff [TS]

  try whenever it comes out because i [TS]

  think i've i've pretty much reached the [TS]

  point where i'm jaded on standard gaming [TS]

  and it doesn't really hold as much [TS]

  interest for me as it once did [TS]

  so tell us about kinectimals well the [TS]

  the first of all the connect itself [TS]

  actually works surprisingly well I i [TS]

  waited for the free or the initial [TS]

  reviews to come in before I went out and [TS]

  got one and they were I guess sort of [TS]

  mediocre to positive so I wasn't [TS]

  expecting much when I look the thing up [TS]

  but I was shocked at how well it [TS]

  actually tracks you I mean it does have [TS]

  its issues you know freaks out [TS]

  occasionally when you move your hands in [TS]

  front of your chest and it loses track [TS]

  of where your extremities are which we [TS]

  usually results in some pretty hilarious [TS]

  results on the screen when you watch [TS]

  your on-screen avatars like hand [TS]

  snapping it's very unusual ways and but [TS]

  by and large the technology works a lot [TS]

  better than i was expecting it to Bob [TS]

  it's not really one to one that they I [TS]

  guess microsoft opted not to put any [TS]

  kind of processing power within the [TS]

  device itself so it's up to the 360 to [TS]

  actually do all the processing which [TS]

  does result in some lag but it's it's [TS]

  very similar to the wii I where you know [TS]

  the wii remotes really the phi delta T [TS]

  on the things ridiculous just horrible [TS]

  and a couple of good developers nintendo [TS]

  most notably with wii sports just [TS]

  figured out ways to work around the fact [TS]

  that the things really had no idea where [TS]

  they were in space and they later they [TS]

  later updated the base of the whole new [TS]

  add-on that supposed to bring yeah that [TS]

  one that's built-in now actually and [TS]

  that does work a hell of a lot about [TS]

  that the ad on the motionplus add-on [TS]

  which is now built into the wiimotes [TS]

  that you buy that's the way everyone [TS]

  thought it worked when they first bought [TS]

  the way it is much better yet but they [TS]

  get he did the first round i mean the [TS]

  the only way that they really sold the [TS]

  system was by making wii sports smart [TS]

  enough to not really care with the [TS]

  control that's well that's part of the [TS]

  brilliance of game design I think [TS]

  because people just want to have fun [TS]

  right and if they don't realize that in [TS]

  order to win at this you know bowling [TS]

  game you just needed to flicking your [TS]

  thing in a certain way because it's [TS]

  really just a tilt sensor if they don't [TS]

  know that and they go through the whole [TS]

  big motion they turn the game so that [TS]

  going through a full fledge bowling [TS]

  motion [TS]

  adults in the correct series of inputs [TS]

  to win the game and it's it's easier for [TS]

  people to say i'm just going to do my [TS]

  bowling motion and then just sit there [TS]

  like a gamer and figure out how do i [TS]

  have to manipulate these accelerometers [TS]

  to win the game right so people just did [TS]

  the footballing motion and I think that [TS]

  that's just good game design that's [TS]

  working within limitations to make a [TS]

  game that people find fun you know I see [TS]

  that is an interesting parallel to [TS]

  something like rock band which is a game [TS]

  that you know I played a lot of in the [TS]

  last few years in that there I [TS]

  definitely know people who are entirely [TS]

  focused on playing it to you know like [TS]

  perfection and so they'll sit on the [TS]

  couch and will be very intent like [TS]

  they're all just sort of like pressing [TS]

  all the buttons you know the there you [TS]

  can see them sort of deep in thought [TS]

  about it as opposed to the people who [TS]

  will play it by being like you know hey [TS]

  let's see where we're rockstars you know [TS]

  let's just stand around and and sing in [TS]

  and you know play like we're actually in [TS]

  a band and maybe that's just different [TS]

  approaches to gaming but it is kind of [TS]

  an interesting disparity that's always [TS]

  intrigued me [TS]

  I wonder how long the kinect is going to [TS]

  last I mean I realize it's interesting [TS]

  to technology and people are doing a lot [TS]

  of cool stuff with it just outside of [TS]

  gaming but we only got the wii we played [TS]

  you know all the wii sports and all the [TS]

  swing your arms around stuff and we got [TS]

  the little thing that sits on the floor [TS]

  that you can step on and it's just kind [TS]

  of sat in the corner after the first [TS]

  couple of months just because it's [TS]

  annoying to get up off the sofa that's [TS]

  that's a lot of air that is on the [TS]

  reason i like that and I mean I [TS]

  understand how getting up and swing your [TS]

  arms around and you know the the we [TS]

  exercise stuff you can work up a sweat [TS]

  but that's not what I do when I'm in [TS]

  front of the TV or ever [TS]

  I think all these different input things [TS]

  we have here like you know we've got [TS]

  motion sensors we've got the gyroscopes [TS]

  and got cameras who you know all these [TS]

  two different things [TS]

  these are converging on like it's kind [TS]

  of like when we had no telephones were [TS]

  just phones and I had cameras in them [TS]

  and then they you know had GPS in them [TS]

  is like these different forms the input [TS]

  well sort of you know be refined and [TS]

  converge to the point where it will be [TS]

  taken for granted two generations from [TS]

  now that all these sensors exist in your [TS]

  living room you've got multiple cameras [TS]

  multiple microphones you know and you [TS]

  can do a lot of interesting things with [TS]

  what you're saying is you're living room [TS]

  will be a hollow deck that's gonna take [TS]

  a while but I'm just like the people are [TS]

  going to be debating how do we really [TS]

  need [TS]

  motion controlled you really need a [TS]

  camera pointing at me it's like well duh [TS]

  you know every phone has a camera world [TS]

  of course my living room has 12 camera [TS]

  so we can get me and you know [TS]

  quadraphonic stereo scar you don't want [TS]

  to use them but yeah they're going to be [TS]

  used for everything can be used for [TS]

  turning on the TV for changing channels [TS]

  for you know selecting for menus and yet [TS]

  for playing games because why wouldn't [TS]

  you use them for games not exclusively [TS]

  for games not big not controllers [TS]

  disappear but it's just one more thing [TS]

  to add right yeah but i just i get i [TS]

  don't find my kids when they play the [TS]

  wii now they sit on the sofa they turn [TS]

  the controller sideways and they play [TS]

  super battle you know Twitter at while [TS]

  traditional games have a lot of mr. of [TS]

  you know that the traditional games will [TS]

  always be there but i think if you if [TS]

  you had a traditional game that had for [TS]

  example people tracking right you could [TS]

  be holding a controller but looking on [TS]

  the screen to do stuff with you know it [TS]

  to do different things look with your [TS]

  eyes change viewpoint or you know a matt [TS]

  targeting thing and that's where the [TS]

  connected really gets gets interesting [TS]

  is because you know you have really your [TS]

  first true sort of semi holodeck [TS]

  experience when you set up what they [TS]

  call your connect ID you've had sex with [TS]

  it [TS]

  were you in shakespearean times there [TS]

  was a the forties going on holiday I [TS]

  could take my understanding is every [TS]

  time they go into the hundred something [TS]

  bad happens [TS]

  yeah it's all resolved in the end [TS]

  whatever it was that all your games like [TS]

  the other connect all your games will [TS]

  take 40 minutes and there will be nicely [TS]

  wrapped up with the if I went and if i [TS]

  had my own holiday the thing would [TS]

  constantly be shorting out just from [TS]

  fluids flowing fluid and we all do we [TS]

  all agree that if if the whole day [TS]

  actually existed it would end humanity [TS]

  within like easily LOL starcraft can [TS]

  kill half of Korea that a holodeck will [TS]

  kill the world [TS]

  yeah we'd all be dead in the holodeck [TS]

  ins starve to death i'm assuming inside [TS]

  the whole back within a year and a half [TS]

  all humanity the top that's a big [TS]

  holiday if individually we can all be [TS]

  the same holiday goodbye [TS]

  so any high you he gets a compelling [TS]

  future gaming but was this podcast about [TS]

  the greenbags your damage i want to hear [TS]

  about the kinect let's go [TS]

  so yeah you can set up this thing called [TS]

  you connect ID which is associated with [TS]

  your avatar and which which basically [TS]

  represents your saved games for for the [TS]

  xbox and it involves you moving around [TS]

  various places in your living room and [TS]

  turn your head slightly and it takes [TS]

  various sort of pictures of your face [TS]

  subsequent to that you walk into the [TS]

  black my daughter was playing [TS]

  kinectimals the other day and I happened [TS]

  to walk past her on my way to the couch [TS]

  and a little thing popped up saying mr. [TS]

  Baum biscuit has signed in [TS]

  that's nice serving for an audience of [TS]

  reasons it's so heavy it is a little [TS]

  freakish in in a lot of respect but so [TS]

  it's that's that was an interesting [TS]

  experience and I think it's part of the [TS]

  excitement with the connectors is I [TS]

  think people kind of see that we're [TS]

  really sort of on the edge of of what [TS]

  may end up being holodeck technology [TS]

  someday in the future [TS]

  well I mean that is there is some really [TS]

  interesting stuff going on with all the [TS]

  facial detection I know when they first [TS]

  showed off the kinect they had that [TS]

  whole creepy peter molyneux oh is it out [TS]

  yeah a little i can roll with the name [TS]

  is Milo Milo right with the little boy [TS]

  who lives inside the Xbox ones that will [TS]

  have to desperately to be his friend you [TS]

  know I understand the economic reasons [TS]

  but isn't it weird that all this kind of [TS]

  a facial detection and and body tracking [TS]

  and is is being developed for games now [TS]

  it's being developed for defense as well [TS]

  but games always one of those things [TS]

  that push the envelope I mean when you [TS]

  look at any you know like computers [TS]

  during the nineties what I have what [TS]

  have you or a games are the things that [TS]

  push the processor is faster and the [TS]

  graphics cards better and all that right [TS]

  because they're always the most [TS]

  demanding thing on the system and there [TS]

  were no sound cards for pcs Intel gaming [TS]

  pushed well things like facial [TS]

  recognition or 3d graphics cards or [TS]

  memory organization now body tracks like [TS]

  facial recognition they had four years [TS]

  for you know FBI databases and stuff and [TS]

  it takes awhile for the technology to [TS]

  scale down to be on consoles and things [TS]

  like a gait analysis and other body [TS]

  tracking that was a little bit from [TS]

  Hollywood you know with motion-control [TS]

  and special effects but you need to know [TS]

  big rigs lots of computers and [TS]

  eventually becomes practical to do that [TS]

  with smaller computer so in this respect [TS]

  I think [TS]

  gaming is getting the hand-me-downs [TS]

  unlike graphics were gaming was pushing [TS]

  the envelope this in this area game is [TS]

  getting the hand-me-downs of other [TS]

  industries who did this [TS]

  more expensively on government contracts [TS]

  with big hardware and now we can do it [TS]

  you know on our phones are on anyone [TS]

  with the kinect comes with a blue [TS]

  bodysuit with ping-pong balls glue all [TS]

  over that's the playstation move is the [TS]

  move gives you a stick with a ping-pong [TS]

  ball on a thread and I like that about [TS]

  the move because that's proven [TS]

  technology like ball-and-stick works now [TS]

  we're getting back to the kind of games [TS]

  that your dad used to play answer is [TS]

  that one the ball you have to catch it [TS]

  on the stick on the move is already [TS]

  there it's stuck there but you've [TS]

  already watched there's no challenge [TS]

  involved in that [TS]

  where's the honor well makes me wonder [TS]

  what other technologies are going to [TS]

  trickle down a well we all be flying [TS]

  Predator drones around in my playing [TS]

  games with the who's in like two years [TS]

  oh man really was gonna be great so [TS]

  messy well if it connects proven [TS]

  anything it's that the technology has a [TS]

  long way to go i mean you do i will say [TS]

  it works about as well as the we did on [TS]

  launch in terms of its ability to track [TS]

  you and it is very very cool you know [TS]

  when it's implemented properly in the [TS]

  games like I think that the standout [TS]

  title for the connected launch was was I [TS]

  think somebody mentioned dance central [TS]

  which is amazingly fun if you don't mind [TS]

  flailing about ridiculously in your [TS]

  living room for you know the [TS]

  embarrassment the embarrassment factor [TS]

  for the entertainment of your friends [TS]

  and neighbors and that's an example of [TS]

  using the Kinect technology on the low [TS]

  end like this that connects can do tons [TS]

  of stuff but all dance central is doing [TS]

  his edge detection and catching your [TS]

  silhouette so let's don't like the way [TS]

  of the way you well know that could [TS]

  connect can also do depth in to see how [TS]

  far you know it can do it [TS]

  it was a depth map of like how far your [TS]

  hands are in front of your behind you [TS]

  but the but the dance central [TS]

  specifically issues all the connects [TS]

  technology except for edge detection [TS]

  which is really simple you know image [TS]

  algorithms that's what makes it [TS]

  responsive and that's what makes it you [TS]

  know sort of more reliable than we're [TS]

  trying to track your limbs in 3d space [TS]

  when they're also not expecting an [TS]

  immediate real-time response to your [TS]

  movements [TS]

  I mean it's it it's set up in such a way [TS]

  that you're not actually looking at an [TS]

  image of yourself on the screen you're [TS]

  looking at right haven't screwed answer [TS]

  and and as you're moving around you know [TS]

  it has time to x [TS]

  we figure out what it is that you're [TS]

  doing before it has to put it up on the [TS]

  screen that you've screwed up your right [TS]

  leg or whatever [TS]

  probably the biggest downside of the [TS]

  kinect is the fact that it takes such a [TS]

  huge amount of space in order for you [TS]

  actually play the games mean if you live [TS]

  in a small concert hall you're in good [TS]

  shape but I can't really foresee it [TS]

  selling well in Japan or anywhere else [TS]

  where people live in these little shoe [TS]

  boxes is that I mean you have to move [TS]

  the coffee table [TS]

  the couch no you're the retaining wall [TS]

  of your house and only then do you have [TS]

  enough room that you're not you're [TS]

  standing on your son on the couch so you [TS]

  know it does have its problems but [TS]

  definitely an interesting tech and and [TS]

  the games are surprisingly fun for which [TS]

  is which is more than i was expecting to [TS]

  be honest I like to put a plug in as [TS]

  long as we're you know talking about [TS]

  these innovative technologies there are [TS]

  some really good even among those [TS]

  triple-a titles that are that are [TS]

  somewhat derivative I find every once in [TS]

  a while they're there are a couple that [TS]

  they do really interesting and new [TS]

  things and this week I've been playing [TS]

  just started playing this new game [TS]

  assassin's creed brotherhood which I [TS]

  have not played a single bit of the [TS]

  single player for but the the [TS]

  multiplayer is fascinating and I think [TS]

  it was most simply described by one of [TS]

  the guys at penny arcade as you ever [TS]

  play the game assassins when you're in [TS]

  high school which is basically had a [TS]

  group of friends and you know you [TS]

  basically the game involved every person [TS]

  got like a target among the group around [TS]

  and you had you got like a plastic spoon [TS]

  or something you had to like go up and [TS]

  like stab them with the spoon and dinner [TS]

  and then you collect on their target you [TS]

  would inherit sort of whoever they were [TS]

  supposed to kill well [TS]

  Assassin's Creed it kind of has a [TS]

  multiplayer that that sort of like this [TS]

  and it's it's a fascinating twists on a [TS]

  lot of the typical first-person shooters [TS]

  because unlike those which really rely [TS]

  on twitch gaming and and reflexes and [TS]

  that kind of stuff [TS]

  Assassin's Creed kind of makes you fight [TS]

  all those instincts basically you're [TS]

  dropped into a map with that is [TS]

  populated entirely with a finite number [TS]

  of character models say H or something [TS]

  so everybody on the map and there's a [TS]

  decent number of people on the map looks [TS]

  like one of these eight characters [TS]

  there's multiple versions of all of them [TS]

  and so each player is all [TS]

  so one of those characters in your [TS]

  you're told to assassinate you know one [TS]

  of the other characters but they look [TS]

  like any number of people on the map so [TS]

  somehow you have to figure out you're [TS]

  talking about high-tech stratego here it [TS]

  sounds like it's very asker's day [TS]

  because you have to walk around sort of [TS]

  slowly and blend in the strategy is to [TS]

  play like an artificial intelligence and [TS]

  and that's it's very very strange but [TS]

  it's really effective because you'll be [TS]

  walking through this crowd you're trying [TS]

  you don't want to run or anything that [TS]

  will draw attention to you and someone [TS]

  will brush value and you'll you'll have [TS]

  that split second where you're like me [TS]

  something about that guy was not quite [TS]

  right and then they just stab you in the [TS]

  back I like it as a candidate it's you [TS]

  know there have been a stealth action [TS]

  games for a long time the previous [TS]

  Assassin's Creed and Splinter Cell and [TS]

  feeds and things like that we're like in [TS]

  a very simple mechanic were like you [TS]

  know if you move slower you won't arouse [TS]

  the the attention of guards around you [TS]

  but I like this that now that it's not [TS]

  like you know you're moving too fast or [TS]

  not like red light green light but like [TS]

  you are moving in a way that will be [TS]

  preceded by a human has a regular or not [TS]

  it's a reverse Turing test [TS]

  yeah exactly it is a reverse reminded of [TS]

  the second episode of the walking dead [TS]

  have you any BS anything up on that [TS]

  that's a different podcast that we're [TS]

  saving that for the end this is the [TS]

  beauty of playing with other people [TS]

  though because that experience that you [TS]

  had their with dan with other people [TS]

  you couldn't have had nothing to do with [TS]

  the computers there's no no absolutely [TS]

  not [TS]

  this gate yeah it does not work without [TS]

  that and really it works best when you [TS]

  have a certain number of people [TS]

  otherwise it gets just too easy to [TS]

  figure out but it was it was a [TS]

  fascinating experience from coming from [TS]

  a lot of games where it's like the goal [TS]

  is you know you gotta run really fast [TS]

  you gotta shoot somebody a lot you know [TS]

  and then you gotta try to get away [TS]

  where is this one it's really about [TS]

  blending in and fighting those instincts [TS]

  to do anything that's going to get you [TS]

  there faster and in fact there are a lot [TS]

  of people you run into online who do [TS]

  take that approach of like I'm gonna run [TS]

  really fast and try to kill everybody [TS]

  and get killed you and you don't get [TS]

  rewarded for either they're gonna [TS]

  questions [TS]

  well i'm gonna i'm going to defend my [TS]

  the the traditional gaming and they do [TS]

  at the top levels traditional [TS]

  first-person gaming at you know where [TS]

  you think i was at which game you run [TS]

  really fast and shoot everybody you have [TS]

  to play that strategically if you try to [TS]

  play like run around should everybody [TS]

  you will not be able to [TS]

  with you know reasonably good players [TS]

  it's a strategic game in terms of [TS]

  territory and power up control and not [TS]

  just running into fights that you can't [TS]

  win that's what separates you know the [TS]

  the the top tier players from just 0 [TS]

  units from the thirty-year-old great [TS]

  president but the 12 year olds learn [TS]

  this it's amazing like this you have to [TS]

  know the territory make you know sort of [TS]

  defending the turf that has the power [TS]

  ups and not engage in fights that you're [TS]

  going to lose it becomes like a senior [TS]

  sort of Sun Tzu art of war type of thing [TS]

  it looks crazy and twitchy and you do [TS]

  need the crazy fast reflexes which is [TS]

  why we still get our butts handed to us [TS]

  by 12 girls because their reflexes are [TS]

  just better than 30 year olds right but [TS]

  there is that other element lurking [TS]

  underneath all types of gameplay [TS]

  yeah I will second as somebody who's had [TS]

  you know been beaten by a number of [TS]

  twelve-year-olds is definitely it's [TS]

  there's there's a lot more to the game [TS]

  that like i was saying before the there [TS]

  you sometimes you suddenly figure out a [TS]

  certain point like whoa there's like a [TS]

  whole nother level like exponential have [TS]

  a lot of the game than what I am [TS]

  perceiving and I met and that has [TS]

  doesn't have much to do the reflexes as [TS]

  it does with you know understanding the [TS]

  strategy mechanics again what's the best [TS]

  way to play this and it even if it looks [TS]

  like just a random shooting spring it's [TS]

  not i used to play battlefield two and [TS]

  it was a great game it was the first [TS]

  massive multiplayer game i played and [TS]

  you could assemble into squads and there [TS]

  would be a squad leader who would [TS]

  determine your your strategic approach [TS]

  to a particular target and I loved on [TS]

  one night and join the squad and the [TS]

  squad leader was issuing the red radio [TS]

  silence des and so we're sneaking up on [TS]

  a particular target was spreading people [TS]

  out and assigning them their jobs [TS]

  according to the book character class [TS]

  they were playing and and so everybody [TS]

  was in position and waited and waited [TS]

  and finally came time to go [TS]

  and this this 11 year old voices ok [TS]

  everybody him i have had that experience [TS]

  as well especially after in the old we [TS]

  used to play halo before xbox microsoft [TS]

  came up with this party system which [TS]

  meant you didn't have to talk to [TS]

  strangers on the internet you would have [TS]

  a brief second at the end of a halo [TS]

  match like maybe about 10 or 20 seconds [TS]

  where people with the real and they were [TS]

  just school is always liked the year old [TS]

  kids the most racist homophobic angriest [TS]

  12 your kids class [TS]

  rap music that you've ever heard so all [TS]

  12 year olds can also apparently I [TS]

  didn't know 12 girls are like that but [TS]

  man it was a little disheartened am it [TS]

  was just hurting both of the state of [TS]

  society as well as the fact that we just [TS]

  gotten really badly beaten by them [TS]

  yeah well I mean we're getting close [TS]

  towards the end of our are allotted time [TS]

  here but i want to know if there's [TS]

  anything in particular you guys want to [TS]

  recommend I mean whether it be a higher [TS]

  level title or something more like a [TS]

  mobile game or anything even a classic [TS]

  game any any suggestions [TS]

  sorry old game old game Greg I've got a [TS]

  lot of a lot of games that i'm playing [TS]

  but enough in there are novel recommend [TS]

  a man who wants to recommend like you [TS]

  cut the rope is really good well you [TS]

  know everybody knows that [TS]

  well yeah have you tried this Angry [TS]

  Birds thing I hear there's there's birds [TS]

  in there they're angry i'm going to put [TS]

  in a plug for on reliving your gaming [TS]

  pass through your children which is what [TS]

  i'm doing now I will simply have soon [TS]

  everybody [TS]

  yeah step step one it's a long road but [TS]

  like have children ultimately work here [TS]

  and if you're an avid gamer you've [TS]

  already failed all right you will not [TS]

  pass step one if you're a regular gamer [TS]

  sorry [TS]

  well this is like trying to play games i [TS]

  wouldn't go back and play these games on [TS]

  my own but going back letting my son [TS]

  play through them is you know is an [TS]

  interesting experience and it does help [TS]

  me appreciate the games that i enjoyed [TS]

  you know when I was a little bit younger [TS]

  seeing someone else experienced them for [TS]

  the first time I think that's it dude I [TS]

  think classic video games are like the [TS]

  Hugo's list is you can go back and and [TS]

  read something that's been on the hero [TS]

  since the mid sixties and it still blows [TS]

  you away and i think that if you're if [TS]

  you're willing to put up with you know [TS]

  not having a beautiful you know shadow [TS]

  rendered graphics on an xbox 360 that [TS]

  you can still enjoy something like [TS]

  deadline which is an amazing game or or [TS]

  chocolate cafe or mule it new label [TS]

  every once in a while did Archon murder [TS]

  on this in turn off their they are all [TS]

  there are literally thousands of [TS]

  terrific games out there and and they're [TS]

  not going to be the experience that they [TS]

  are today but they are still unique and [TS]

  pleasurable experiences [TS]

  well there's something to saying that [TS]

  it's not just the technology that makes [TS]

  the game fun right i mean my few years [TS]

  ago I think they were still in ecology [TS]

  and we've my friends I found a virgin [TS]

  know your place scorched-earth classic [TS]

  toss game with tanks basically the [TS]

  progenitor of things like worms [TS]

  you've got a lot of Tanks you sort of [TS]

  have to figure out the altitude of you [TS]

  know an angle that you're going to fire [TS]

  your tank your your gun on your turn [TS]

  ahead and see if you managed to hit [TS]

  somebody else and if not it's someone [TS]

  else's turn and then you just learn to [TS]

  sort of figured out by trial and error [TS]

  and we found a java-based version of [TS]

  this online and we played it like [TS]

  non-stop for like two months and it was [TS]

  just it was intensely entertaining even [TS]

  though it was like 1984 graphics so I [TS]

  think there's more to examine the [TS]

  technology is really interesting and I [TS]

  think technology is part of what drives [TS]

  games for it but at the end of the end [TS]

  of the day I think it really depends [TS]

  more on on a good game is a good game [TS]

  exactly there's a certain amount of [TS]

  technology that has to be there I mean I [TS]

  I bust out the emulators fairly [TS]

  frequently and i find that as finely as [TS]

  i remember the old atari 2600 games [TS]

  you just can't play them for more than a [TS]

  minute and a half anymore you just can't [TS]

  I mean either looking at squares being [TS]

  eaten by the vaguely oblong dragons you [TS]

  know using an arrow for a so don't you [TS]

  disadvantage her man I'll come over [TS]

  there and kick your ass if you have you [TS]

  checked i love adventure dearly but man [TS]

  you just can't play anymore although i [TS]

  will say that one of the most in like [TS]

  intense gaming experiences I've ever had [TS]

  was being at the the penny arcade expo [TS]

  combat yeah second or third year and it [TS]

  came down to they have this Omega on [TS]

  where they compete and have a bunch of [TS]

  people that compete in various different [TS]

  games throughout like several different [TS]

  rounds and the final round was a [TS]

  one-on-one showdown with the guitar game [TS]

  combat in one arena of like 400,000 [TS]

  people probably alternatively little [TS]

  square square [TS]

  let's hear no you're not you're not [TS]

  relying on the technology to provide the [TS]

  entertainment you're alone on the fact [TS]

  you're playing another human rights [TS]

  lawyer you're watching this epic match [TS]

  between these two guys trying to decide [TS]

  who takes home this huge bundle prizes [TS]

  or whatever it was definitely [TS]

  entertaining but yes I don't know that I [TS]

  acted briefly we had a party at a [TS]

  friend's house one night where we broke [TS]

  out the Atari and played combat and man [TS]

  once we got it working [TS]

  you gotta blow the cartridges and [TS]

  everything [TS]

  yeah i can still play a mean warlords [TS]

  there's a yeah I have a shoebox of those [TS]

  Atari titles or one time that we're just [TS]

  gathering dust and we just try each one [TS]

  of them until we found that would work [TS]

  and then we play that so you know [TS]

  eg it is don't play that game is so bad [TS]

  now you can get a free one out in the [TS]

  Las Vegas area desert after the guy who [TS]

  made us really inducing about that [TS]

  well sadly he's not here to defend [TS]

  itself i actually like dt i'm going to [TS]

  go on knowing that you know how to play [TS]

  it [TS]

  oh yeah I finished it that's one [TS]

  possible that you start with saying it [TS]

  that's your winning team you know what [TS]

  that means the way purpose wish to was [TS]

  trying to say the only winning move is [TS]

  not the play is thank you [TS]

  we might want to end it on that maybe [TS]

  that is a good place to end it so I [TS]

  thanks everybody for joining us and I [TS]

  think all of our contributors this week [TS]

  Greg moss thank you Steve lots [TS]

  it's been real John siracusa goodnight [TS]

  everybody [TS]

  Tony's alive whew and I am your guest [TS]

  host and more than sitting in for [TS]

  Jason's now who will probably be back [TS]

  next time thanks for joining us again it [TS]

  had everybody hey [TS]

  this has been the incomparable podcast [TS]

  there's no sadly and comfortable time [TS]

  you can we need to do more of that like [TS]

  that thing where you take the outtakes [TS]

  and you throw them at the end after the [TS]

  music that once or twice going to war [TS]

  that [TS]

  that [TS]

  let me to say increasingly outrageous [TS]

  things before we actually start so that [TS]

  you can you know pick and choose the [TS]

  ridiculous things to come on the end-all [TS]

  doing throw and yeah what the hell is a [TS]

  thing no practice pressure because these [TS]

  units in LIC look so easy when Jason [TS]

  doesn't start walking month wow wow [TS]

  well this is not here to run things so i [TS]

  guess that falls to me which is kinda [TS]

  weird but yeah I'm freaked out a little [TS]

  bit right now and he's my boss so I do [TS]

  whatever he tells you realize you can [TS]

  create any reason that he's not showing [TS]

  up [TS]

  that is a good point that you have many [TS]

  options yeah I'm information snail whose [TS]

  in rehab this nice i mean he probably [TS]

  will get to edit it before it actually [TS]

  goes up on the website so you think he's [TS]

  actually gonna add at this just takes [TS]

  the beginning and the end off and tax [TS]

  the music on what was his excuse anyways [TS]

  its uses that he knows nothing about [TS]

  video games something I think that was [TS]

  pretty much it i didn't know anything [TS]

  about hormones anybody that one and then [TS]

  a different sort of ship here I don't [TS]

  know it smells been coddling you guys [TS]

  this is gonna be hard hitting [TS]