The Incomparable

49: It`s Like "Working Girl" With Monsters


  the incomparable podcast [TS]

  number 49 [TS]

  August 2011 we're back on the [TS]

  incomparable podcast I am Jason Snelling [TS]

  your host and today we're going to be [TS]

  talking about pixar the movie studio [TS]

  that is now part of disney has made a [TS]

  some fantastic animated features over [TS]

  the years in fact some might say they've [TS]

  never made a bad feature and then some [TS]

  of us haven't seen cars to yet so we [TS]

  just don't know [TS]

  joining me today to talk about pixar are [TS]

  Steve let's hi Steve good day to user [TS]

  good day and John siracusa good evening [TS]

  good evening John on your other other [TS]

  podcast your personal podcast called [TS]

  hypercritical i know there was a section [TS]

  of that of a previous episode where you [TS]

  talked a little bit about about pixar so [TS]

  in some ways we're just following up [TS]

  from out there like the brother from [TS]

  another podcast here that doesn't rhyme [TS]

  and it doesn't so seriously i talked [TS]

  about pixar sort of having this kind of [TS]

  legend of having never made a bad movie [TS]

  and I believe cars 2 is the lowest [TS]

  scoring on the on the tomatometer at [TS]

  last check i think it was a 30 / seven [TS]

  thirty-seven percent positive score [TS]

  which is pretty bad i haven't seen it [TS]

  that seems almost like backlash low to [TS]

  me i mean i have not seen cars to yet [TS]

  but my wife and kids went outside and [TS]

  they all seem to enjoy it and am i [TS]

  strong suspicion is that the reason that [TS]

  they get down to 3735 on on the [TS]

  tomatometer is that critics have been [TS]

  sitting around just waiting for a lesson [TS]

  subline pixar film finally they could [TS]

  take a tragedy and the backlash begins [TS]

  yes so grand form up until curse to [TS]

  which is in which is in debate you know [TS]

  that that's the 12th feature by pixar [TS]

  the first 11 almost universally liked so [TS]

  I thought rather than taking a stroll [TS]

  from from toy story in 1995 through [TS]

  courage to we would do something a [TS]

  little bit more free form and kind of [TS]

  alternate among the three of us and and [TS]

  pick out some movies that we [TS]

  particularly liked or disliked from [TS]

  Pixar and talk about them in turn [TS]

  so with that I think we'll start with [TS]

  Steve let's do you have a particular [TS]

  favorite pixar film that you'd like to [TS]

  talk about first [TS]

  well for me at the moment is a tie and [TS]

  it is only a time because i just watched [TS]

  up for the first time two nights ago and [TS]

  very quickly that became perhaps my [TS]

  favorite pixar films without you the [TS]

  first pic and me pixar film draft is is [TS]

  up in the yes that's that would be [TS]

  except i'm i'm still not certain that it [TS]

  quite matches the incredibles for me [TS]

  which would be Mike my other pic want to [TS]

  go with up just a spoiler alert somebody [TS]

  else will pick the incredibles so how I [TS]

  figured I figured that would probably [TS]

  happen that the reason I'm not sure at [TS]

  this point is because I the the [TS]

  afterglow has yet to fade on up which I [TS]

  thought was frankly just magnificent [TS]

  from stem to stern that you know that's [TS]

  the movie that's famous for the fact [TS]

  that it has that long dialogue less [TS]

  scene between the husband and the wife [TS]

  that [TS]

  yeah essentially makes everybody turns [TS]

  everybody into just weeping minis well [TS]

  yeah and the first thing yeah it's it's [TS]

  roughly the first 11 minutes of the film [TS]

  and it chronicles a young Carl [TS]

  frederickson's early meeting with his [TS]

  future wife and then of course it you [TS]

  know we see various snippets of their [TS]

  their married life and and then the the [TS]

  end of the line for the wife and and [TS]

  then we of course see Carl and alone and [TS]

  and sad holding the blue balloon that he [TS]

  previously had in his youth and they're [TS]

  just all these lovely parallels from his [TS]

  youth to to the 22 the the [TS]

  september-october years and for [TS]

  shadowing alert by the way involving a [TS]

  balloon [TS]

  I've been in a way the pathos of that [TS]

  scene is just so perfect me to hit the [TS]

  notes so so perfectly [TS]

  you know between the bits where you know [TS]

  we discovered they can't have children [TS]

  and then they keep going back to this [TS]

  dream they have of being at Paradise [TS]

  Falls and it is they're all these little [TS]

  details like there's a scene where I [TS]

  think Carly's leaving for the day to go [TS]

  to work and and there's a newspaper [TS]

  clipping in the window that says like [TS]

  local zoo employee rescues endangered [TS]

  species or something and it's about it's [TS]

  about the wife but it's it's just this [TS]

  tiny little detail that you never it [TS]

  never comes up again but you know it's [TS]

  just it's one of those things that just [TS]

  makes the thing works so perfectly so a [TS]

  lot of people when i talk about they're [TS]

  like oh that's a movie that makes you [TS]

  cry and in fact it's totally true that's [TS]

  the movie that starts out with the story [TS]

  of their life and it makes you cry but [TS]

  then it turns into actually kind of a [TS]

  zany retro adventure story you're right [TS]

  and it's an interesting contrast because [TS]

  some of the humor and in pixar films can [TS]

  be more subtle whereas in up the humor [TS]

  is almost all this very broad physical [TS]

  comedy and and wackiness talking dogs [TS]

  such and talking dogs and it's it's such [TS]

  a stark contrast to the the emotional [TS]

  sections of the segments of the film and [TS]

  there's another obviously that first 11 [TS]

  minutes and then again towards the end [TS]

  of the film [TS]

  Carl kind of has come to Jesus moment [TS]

  where you know he breaks out of his [TS]

  depression about his wife and decides to [TS]

  have new adventures and and that those [TS]

  are kind of book ends and then in the [TS]

  middle there's just all this you know [TS]

  whacky bird and dog shenanigans and and [TS]

  a whole bunch of stuff that requires [TS]

  vast suspension of disbelief I'm is kind [TS]

  of weird just juxtaposition and i'm not [TS]

  sure how I'm going to feel about it in a [TS]

  week or two after I've thought a little [TS]

  bit longer about you know about the film [TS]

  and I'm also not sure that that that [TS]

  it's a film that I'm gonna want to [TS]

  revisit a lot just because so much of [TS]

  what's good about it is is the emotional [TS]

  and the emotional moments and the kind [TS]

  of pathos and in and sadness and where [TS]

  it whereas incredible you know you go [TS]

  you come for the the great action scenes [TS]

  and the the kind of cool fairly suddenly [TS]

  done message [TS]

  with up your therefore the emotions and [TS]

  i'm not just not sure that that's [TS]

  something I'm gonna watch over and over [TS]

  again you know now I it's interesting [TS]

  because it's so notable and it is so [TS]

  touching but I watched it again after [TS]

  probably a year or so having not seen it [TS]

  and was actually surprised because i was [TS]

  reminded oh yes after that happens [TS]

  there's a whole movie that's kind of got [TS]

  this wacky adventure with the talking [TS]

  dog which is you know there's a pretty [TS]

  funny bit no crazy giant bird and and [TS]

  it's actually pretty good but you lose [TS]

  I think you lose sight of it because of [TS]

  that of that scene in the beginning and [TS]

  just how notable it is and just how sad [TS]

  it is that it's really easy it's what [TS]

  kind of hard to get past it to the rest [TS]

  of the movie even though the rest of the [TS]

  movie is good and it's good to their [TS]

  just you know it's like the look the [TS]

  cloud thats hanging over the beginning [TS]

  of the movie and it's hard to remember [TS]

  anything else about it [TS]

  yeah i definitely agree with that i mean [TS]

  it's it it and I think a lot of its just [TS]

  because that that emotional stuff is [TS]

  just so superbly done i think you'd be [TS]

  hard-pressed to to match it and and I i [TS]

  will be surprised if pixar ever does [TS]

  match that level of emotional resonance [TS]

  in in any of their films although sense [TS]

  probably about I think toy story 2 was [TS]

  really where they started always [TS]

  inserting something that would depress [TS]

  the hell out of here [TS]

  oh yeah everything and they're they're [TS]

  excellent at it I'm sorry too and toys [TS]

  story three both have moments that are [TS]

  that are very much in the same vein but [TS]

  i think that was probably the pinnacle [TS]

  of tha the tear-jerking moments and i [TS]

  find it hard to believe they'll ever [TS]

  deliver match that pinnacle also it is [TS]

  it's so well done in up they didn't need [TS]

  to use a Sarah McLachlan song to do it [TS]

  right for randy newman and sarah [TS]

  mclachlan right that they didn't need to [TS]

  squeeze it out of that way they just got [TS]

  Michael chiquinho and i read an [TS]

  interview with him where he basically [TS]

  said that he felt like don't hit the [TS]

  pressure for the movie to succeed was [TS]

  entirely on him because he has for that [TS]

  entire thing and if he didn't do it [TS]

  right the whole movie doesn't come off [TS]

  so but yet and it's amazing [TS]

  yes it's marvelous and it's something [TS]

  that you don't notice the first time [TS]

  through me you you notice it's this nice [TS]

  sort of catchy toe-tapping score but but [TS]

  that actually [TS]

  since since i'm a sucker for the model [TS]

  and I got after seeing the first 11 [TS]

  minutes i went back and revisited it [TS]

  twice before you finish the rest of the [TS]

  film because i was so impressed by it [TS]

  and not on subsequent watches that the [TS]

  thing that really came to the fore was [TS]

  held brilliant that score was and how [TS]

  how unobtrusive it is and yet how much [TS]

  it really really adds you know without [TS]

  getting in the way that BS 2 @ [TS]

  excellently done work [TS]

  yeah one of my favorite things about up [TS]

  is that it references one of my favorite [TS]

  books when I was a kid which is the [TS]

  little house by Virginia Lee Burton [TS]

  which is the story of a house that's out [TS]

  in the countryside and it's built in the [TS]

  past out in the countryside and then [TS]

  over time the city comes out throws up [TS]

  around it and that it ends up in between [TS]

  two skyscrapers and and at the end of [TS]

  the legs very sad and it's all boarded [TS]

  up and then and then they they they pick [TS]

  it up and move it back out into the [TS]

  country and me and they refurbishments a [TS]

  it's really actually had a touching kind [TS]

  of somewhat model and story he had and [TS]

  it's directly referencing up because the [TS]

  same thing happens to his house and then [TS]

  his house flies away out of the middle [TS]

  of the city where it where it ended up [TS]

  I'm so i really love that about that you [TS]

  know can't be anything but a reference [TS]

  to the little house and it's great i i i [TS]

  remember that book now that you mention [TS]

  it but somehow didn't come to mind spent [TS]

  so long since I've seen it yeah that's [TS]

  that's very cool [TS]

  I John any thoughts about up before we [TS]

  move on and I do actually i was taking [TS]

  some notes while you're talking about [TS]

  the opening sequence one of the things [TS]

  that comes to mind is whenever a Pixar [TS]

  movie I think about what Pixar is doing [TS]

  that's that's different than what you [TS]

  can do in a live-action movie because [TS]

  pics are really is defined by at not so [TS]

  much technology but the animation says [TS]

  their animation on the studio and a lot [TS]

  of the positive reaction i think for [TS]

  Pixar is a there you know all this an [TS]

  animated movie and older generation send [TS]

  to dismiss them as frivolous or kids [TS]

  movies but pixar doesn't accept those [TS]

  limits and we'll try to do things [TS]

  that regular movies do it just happens [TS]

  to be with animation and I think in the [TS]

  case of up and an opening sequence they [TS]

  do with Pixar does a lot which is [TS]

  something that's actually harder to do [TS]

  in live action and what [TS]

  but this was actually talking about a [TS]

  little one up was a being reviewed in [TS]

  the mainstream media was like oh here's [TS]

  a here's a movie that has an old person [TS]

  as a main character and you don't see [TS]

  that so much in live-action movies and [TS]

  especially not in kids live action [TS]

  movies there's an old person in a kids [TS]

  movie [TS]

  it's like the scary old man who lives [TS]

  next door or the grumpy grand par [TS]

  whatever but the kid is clearly you know [TS]

  they always have it any sort of young [TS]

  adult or child thing as a kid of a [TS]

  comparably just as the clear main [TS]

  character and the adults are in the [TS]

  background or its cocoon and it's all of [TS]

  the above [TS]

  yeah right and it at that and that [TS]

  that's actually one of the better [TS]

  examples of open and it was it was [TS]

  hailed at the time i think is as being a [TS]

  shocker because it featured old people [TS]

  so yeah I think that's the only with [TS]

  time before up that I can think of one [TS]

  that was true except maybe for the [TS]

  grumpy old men of the world which were [TS]

  which were more lampooning the old [TS]

  philately if if you think about Kuno or [TS]

  cocoon or I don't think of another [TS]

  example is a couple of other ones out [TS]

  there where the theme of the movie is [TS]

  old people versus this movie where the [TS]

  theme is not old people [TS]

  the theme is you know there are other [TS]

  themes been one of the characters [TS]

  happens to be an old person yes he has a [TS]

  loss but he could have just as easily [TS]

  been younger and has lost his wife at an [TS]

  earlier age and not be no like it's not [TS]

  about being old rice cocoon is so [TS]

  central on your you're getting to the [TS]

  point where you're going to die you're [TS]

  with a bunch of old people you know so [TS]

  so this was a different in and respect [TS]

  that it happened to be an old person [TS]

  starts like a movie starring a gay [TS]

  person versus a movie about being gay [TS]

  you know what I mean when I crossing [TS]

  that threshold and put them but the main [TS]

  thing that struck me is that if you try [TS]

  to do that opening sequence in [TS]

  live-action show the same thing show a [TS]

  little kid he meets the girl grew up [TS]

  there they're married they get older [TS]

  they're a nice you know that just do the [TS]

  whole thing shop for shopping with [TS]

  actual old people and then have that old [TS]

  person be in the movie throughout the [TS]

  rest of the thing I think it's harder to [TS]

  make [TS]

  a movie with an older person that [TS]

  audiences and especially children will [TS]

  relate to in the same way simply because [TS]

  old people are not as attractive as [TS]

  young people and when you see old people [TS]

  in a in a live-action movie they always [TS]

  want to show you the old person is the [TS]

  framing device and step your back to [TS]

  when he was brad pitt and the most of [TS]

  the movies with the old guys brad pitt [TS]

  and you're looking like all that all guy [TS]

  used to be Brad Pitt but you spend most [TS]

  of your movie yeah it would you spend [TS]

  most of your movie looking at brad pitt [TS]

  and yet you related back to the person [TS]

  but they don't have the bravery to have [TS]

  you know the guy jumping off blimps [TS]

  flying planes you know rescuing the kid [TS]

  like no one wants to see that old guy [TS]

  but in animation you can show an old [TS]

  person is also cute and adorable like [TS]

  but if you look at his face they [TS]

  basically smooth out the wrinkles he's [TS]

  not he doesn't look so much like an [TS]

  actual person that it reminds us of our [TS]

  own mortality or is is unattractive [TS]

  whatever he fits in as a character in [TS]

  animation looks a little like the heat [TS]

  miser now that i think about it [TS]

  yeah a lot you know I claymation or [TS]

  smart and he's really a caricature of an [TS]

  old person but it's it's somehow not is [TS]

  off-putting seen as an actual old person [TS]

  on film and I don't always thought that [TS]

  was interesting because I thought I [TS]

  think you did this opening scene with [TS]

  live-action it wouldn't work as well it [TS]

  will be more difficult to get it to work [TS]

  for that same reason that you know [TS]

  people think it's gonna be like ages 20 [TS]

  people are always just a fact of life [TS]

  you know that we can less attractive as [TS]

  we get older you know that whatever you [TS]

  want to say about old men being [TS]

  distinguished or whatever it's just not [TS]

  the same as looking at Brad Pitt but [TS]

  when you look at Carl he's he looks just [TS]

  fine because he's an animated character [TS]

  you know right and I certainly couldn't [TS]

  do this the scenes where in live-action [TS]

  where Carl is jumping off a blimp or [TS]

  dragging the house on his own you know [TS]

  you wouldn't believe it because he had [TS]

  such as awful as it is but because it's [TS]

  animated you can just about forgiving [TS]

  you know you also have the the technical [TS]

  issues of showing somebody at various [TS]

  ages means you have to cast people who [TS]

  sort of look like them at various ages [TS]

  right yeah which is continuity you can [TS]

  just totally blow past that and I it's [TS]

  funny though that you say he you know [TS]

  usually they're there the grumpy old man [TS]

  of the scary neighbor in many ways [TS]

  that's exactly what this movie is [TS]

  playing against is that he is the grumpy [TS]

  old man who's the scary neighbor but [TS]

  that makes to explain why right and it's [TS]

  from his viewpoint and not from the [TS]

  viewpoint of the kid even they have [TS]

  ask the kids which is really great slip [TS]

  yeah the kid comes to his door [TS]

  we don't follow the kid and then that up [TS]

  seeing the kid growing up for the grumpy [TS]

  old man how something scary's the other [TS]

  way around we are with the old man we [TS]

  have been able to pick it and then the [TS]

  kid comes to the door he's the is the [TS]

  intruder or the scary one of the strange [TS]

  thing I kind of disagree that it's not [TS]

  about being old [TS]

  I mean it's less about being old [TS]

  certainly than cocoon a grumpy old man [TS]

  or something that's that's more or less [TS]

  exclusively about being old but it in a [TS]

  way I think it's exactly about being all [TS]

  that mean where we have the the whole [TS]

  sequence where r posteli passing away [TS]

  he's coming down the stairs slowly and [TS]

  grumpily in his chair and he's he's [TS]

  doing all these very stereotypically old [TS]

  things it's it's it's almost his the [TS]

  whole journey is almost his discovery [TS]

  that being old doesn't mean you have to [TS]

  be a grumpy crusty old bastard you know [TS]

  what the John's point it could also be [TS]

  about getting over Los right i mean but [TS]

  you could you could say that he was [TS]

  younger and lost his wife and I decided [TS]

  to close themselves off from the world [TS]

  maybe it's more resonant because he's [TS]

  old because rather people close [TS]

  themselves off from the world all the [TS]

  time but it could have you know they [TS]

  could have told that story and have him [TS]

  be young and closed off as like you've [TS]

  got something to live for right could [TS]

  still be the message but it i think it's [TS]

  intensified by the fact that he did you [TS]

  know he's old and he could have every [TS]

  reason to just give up and stop living [TS]

  more than a winner would it's not so [TS]

  much about his mortality that's exactly [TS]

  what i was going to say is that if he [TS]

  was if he was 14 lost his wife you tell [TS]

  the exact same story he's not a he isn't [TS]

  mortality is not looming over and he's [TS]

  like he's now I call the end of my road [TS]

  is coming he's lost the will to live [TS]

  because he lost his wife and that same [TS]

  exact thing would happen if they were 50 [TS]

  because he feels that he didn't get to [TS]

  do all the things you wanted to do with [TS]

  his wife when she was alive and that [TS]

  would have been true no matter when she [TS]

  died they cut out that scene at the end [TS]

  of the at the end of the musical montage [TS]

  where he wears doctor tells him he has [TS]

  six months to live [TS]

  just totally change the movie but it's [TS]

  your prostate Carl yeah and and there's [TS]

  naughty i mean again cooling the whole [TS]

  thing is like it you can do things now [TS]

  that you couldn't do when you're old and [TS]

  obviously this movie is not bound by [TS]

  that at all he goes off those crazy [TS]

  things [TS]

  one more point up even though we will [TS]

  soon talk about inevitably an actual [TS]

  pg-rated movie I thought up had the most [TS]

  PG or possibly pg-13 moment in any Pixar [TS]

  movie i can either one of you guess [TS]

  which moment i'm going to site now [TS]

  hmm so so maybe this was just me anyway [TS]

  it was a short moment but I it jumped [TS]

  out at me as even more out of place not [TS]

  not so much out of place but he even [TS]

  more jarring in the opening sequence is [TS]

  where he clocks the galleria and is his [TS]

  forehead bleeds [TS]

  yeah exactly so it's a moment of adult [TS]

  anger you know displaced anger but still [TS]

  anger at someone who isn't an enemy and [TS]

  you know sort of the same way with you [TS]

  get angry you realize that what must you [TS]

  become injuring someone who is not like [TS]

  odo like it's not comical cartoon [TS]

  violence is actual violence and they [TS]

  show blood so I mean even if they didn't [TS]

  show blood I feel like you never see [TS]

  that kind of non-superhero non cartoon [TS]

  against an innocent person by the [TS]

  protagonist who is angry for no good [TS]

  reason you know displaced anger from [TS]

  other issues hurting somebody and then [TS]

  the blood on top of it that right i eat [TS]

  the movie is rated G but that moment [TS]

  like cheese this is gonna be so you come [TS]

  off that that montage we like our kids [TS]

  don't understand because they haven't [TS]

  lived a life they don't understand that [TS]

  the deep you know emotional impact of [TS]

  this segment about living a life with [TS]

  someone haven't I blah blah but [TS]

  certainly the understand hurting someone [TS]

  even if they understand that it wasn't [TS]

  you know that they understand this guy [TS]

  is not an enemy or not a comical enemy [TS]

  and and our hero they were with hurt [TS]

  this person out of anger that really [TS]

  stood out to me it is intense and in the [TS]

  first thing that I thought when I saw [TS]

  that was was wow he drew blood with a [TS]

  tennis ball he must really like him [TS]

  I mean he must have really been pissed [TS]

  so you're right i think that's that's [TS]

  what you think it's it handles in my [TS]

  serious rage really whacked him so like [TS]

  I've been trying to decide you know this [TS]

  ended up a couple times like does that [TS]

  does that add to the movie or is that a [TS]

  place i think i still think it adds to [TS]

  the movie because if we ever do a [TS]

  podcast about children's movies I'll [TS]

  probably talk about the fact that it [TS]

  children's movies you want to have [TS]

  something in them that challenges [TS]

  children [TS]

  and emotionally just a little bit you [TS]

  know that sort of how they grow you [TS]

  don't want to be overwhelming but you [TS]

  want to be a little something so i think [TS]

  the opening scene was probably mostly [TS]

  lost on in very young children who [TS]

  aren't that empathetic and don't [TS]

  understand you know the adult lives in [TS]

  relationships but i think especially the [TS]

  little spark of blood that you get their [TS]

  kids know about you know when the red [TS]

  stuff comes out as a bad and and the the [TS]

  scene is not played for laughs and it's [TS]

  not cartoon violence and it's over very [TS]

  quickly move on quickly under the next [TS]

  thing of this guy that you're following [TS]

  I think that moment adds the movie [TS]

  doesn't take away I'm and it's good that [TS]

  they didn't you know it's good that it's [TS]

  a short moment but i'm very glad that [TS]

  there no I definitely think it adds both [TS]

  for that reason and because it's it [TS]

  really speaks in a very simple way to to [TS]

  just exactly how depressed and and lost [TS]

  Carl is without Elly that he would he [TS]

  would go to that because all we've seen [TS]

  up to that point is just shots of them [TS]

  being happy-go-lucky and you know [TS]

  picking up on the hill and and the [TS]

  juxtaposition of him you know flying [TS]

  into a rage and cracking the guy over [TS]

  the skull with his cane is it really [TS]

  strong [TS]

  not to mention of course you need you [TS]

  need something to get him to to be in [TS]

  fear for his house in order to move the [TS]

  story forward but yeah I think that's [TS]

  definitely a positive and that's all so [TS]

  much better than I mean they did a [TS]

  stereotypical things to the [TS]

  stereotypical things are going away Kid [TS]

  I'm grumpy because my you know [TS]

  expressing is our clothes off in the [TS]

  world i don't like kids are happy things [TS]

  Bob that's the stereotypical thing but [TS]

  the more realistic manifestation is him [TS]

  doing crazy out-of-character things you [TS]

  know in terms of getting violent which [TS]

  is not something that you would have [TS]

  done his normal life and as much it's [TS]

  much stronger statement that him just [TS]

  being grumpy around kids because you've [TS]

  seen so many old people be grumpy around [TS]

  kids you always know all you know he's [TS]

  really a nice guy at heart of this [TS]

  here's here's someone doing something [TS]

  it's unflattering that someone something [TS]

  that you wouldn't want someone else it's [TS]

  not endearing or adorable people [TS]

  grumpiness type stuff you know i'm just [TS]

  going to say that when we started this [TS]

  podcast i had some concern whether we [TS]

  would be able to fill an entire podcast [TS]

  talking about pixar and it turns out we [TS]

  could fill half a podcast talking about [TS]

  one Pixar movie [TS]

  we could probably go the rest of the way [TS]

  without but we should probably move on [TS]

  yeah I mean I think it's great make it [TS]

  shows the depth of these of these films [TS]

  that we could devote that much time to [TS]

  it let's move on to johns johns pick in [TS]

  this pixar draft I i assume John that [TS]

  you are you come to speak a little more [TS]

  about the incredibles yes it's my [TS]

  favorite is your favorite too and is its [TS]

  everybody's favorite i believe i said in [TS]

  our superhero movie podcast it's my [TS]

  favorite superhero movie period so yeah [TS]

  yeah I don't know I'd have to think [TS]

  about that more to make a decision but [TS]

  it's it's my clear favorite Pixar movie [TS]

  and I didn't think that after i saw it [TS]

  like what I guess I was a bigger fan of [TS]

  for example Toy Story 2 or or you know I [TS]

  maybe finding nemo like it when i saw [TS]

  that Michael is another good Pixar movie [TS]

  but over time it has grown to overshadow [TS]

  all the other pixar movies [TS]

  perhaps as I've seen each one of them [TS]

  eight million times as my children [TS]

  watching them it gives me a pretty solid [TS]

  view of the the the repertoire Pixar and [TS]

  incredible stands above them I was [TS]

  trying to think of the reasons why I the [TS]

  first thing is that i think it is it [TS]

  still the only PG rated one I think so [TS]

  it was the was the first PG rated and [TS]

  despite the pd moment we just talked [TS]

  about from up the fact that it's PG [TS]

  rated gives it a leg up when you're [TS]

  asking an adult which is your favorite [TS]

  movie because you are constrained by [TS]

  rated g movies and sentiment song i [TS]

  really do like Reggie movies on my [TS]

  favorite movies ever rated movies will [TS]

  talk about in the kids podcast I'm sure [TS]

  someday [TS]

  yes but being PG freeze you a little bit [TS]

  and that the next thing is that it's a [TS]

  superhero movie and I like superhero [TS]

  movies and so and that's a topic that PG [TS]

  rating lends itself to zero just a [TS]

  little bit less constrained about you [TS]

  know on the things that superheroes tend [TS]

  to do i and all the reasons you like a [TS]

  superhero movie and also Pixar is not [TS]

  doing a straight-up super they never [TS]

  almost never do anything straight up [TS]

  whenever Pixar's doing anything it's [TS]

  always possible is the animation angle [TS]

  you always expect was going to Pixar [TS]

  movie about X they're going to [TS]

  examine the absurdities of exorbitant [TS]

  all monsters inc the whole movie is [TS]

  about your monsters of scary things [TS]

  monsters in your closet but they have an [TS]

  absurd angle on the monsters where it's [TS]

  their job and stuff like that and and [TS]

  toys you know it's gonna be lots of in [TS]

  jokes about toys and stuff like that [TS]

  well superheros they're not gonna do [TS]

  Batman Begins animated or anything even [TS]

  close to that or even just you know [TS]

  Superman one animated version it's not [TS]

  going to be a superhero story it's going [TS]

  to do all the little in jokes and [TS]

  references and funny absurd things about [TS]

  superheroes but the great thing about [TS]

  incredibles visible is also in its own [TS]

  right as Jason pointed out a great [TS]

  superhero movie while also making fun of [TS]

  Superman that balances incredibly hard [TS]

  because you don't want to be like the [TS]

  greatest american hero or some other you [TS]

  know scary movie type parody of a [TS]

  superhero movie because that I mean I [TS]

  guess you can do that but it's not pixar [TS]

  style it has a both ways it gets to poke [TS]

  fun at superheroes and the the [TS]

  conventions of superheroes while also [TS]

  conforming to the mall and using them to [TS]

  make a great superhero movie i'm and and [TS]

  on top of that it's kind of a unique [TS]

  take on superhero store it's not they [TS]

  they decided to have their own twist you [TS]

  know they have their own rules about I [TS]

  guess that's kind of a Malcolm [TS]

  everything is out there but you know the [TS]

  no capes angle the heroes who were loved [TS]

  by society than shunned by them as kind [TS]

  of a watchman angle like no capes was to [TS]

  actually yeah it kind of the launch of [TS]

  existing superhero things all push [TS]

  together but it is kind of unique like [TS]

  when I think about the superhero [TS]

  universe is like and I can clearly [TS]

  picture you know superman's universe and [TS]

  Batman's universe [TS]

  well I don't know what their pc rebooted [TS]

  anyway it's a but what I can picture the [TS]

  incredible universe [TS]

  they've made their own thing even if it [TS]

  is a derivative arm and the other thing [TS]

  in its favor is that [TS]

  it speaks to suburban white males with [TS]

  families so obviously if you got a bunch [TS]

  of suburban white males with families [TS]

  together who like superheroes and like [TS]

  superhero movies not have a movie where [TS]

  the main character has a family and he's [TS]

  got all this type of things that you [TS]

  know it's it's a such a clear map of [TS]

  like when you're older and thinking back [TS]

  to your younger days now you have [TS]

  responsibilities and your job as I'm [TS]

  feeling it's a slam-dunk I'm just like [TS]

  everything matic front for geeks like us [TS]

  to remove and execute on all of them so [TS]

  well I cannot speak for yourself and I [TS]

  you pretty much got me pegged [TS]

  yeah and and you know everything about [TS]

  it like the message is not drilled into [TS]

  you it's suddenly you know like I don't [TS]

  know maybe they could come outside a [TS]

  little bit like yeah that that's the [TS]

  best thing for that for the incredibles [TS]

  for me by far just piping in for a [TS]

  second is is the fact that the message [TS]

  is so strong and yet so subtle [TS]

  yeah they don't bang your head with it [TS]

  like for example the the second half of [TS]

  Wally where it's just you know too [TS]

  heavy-handed I pixar as hit-or-miss on [TS]

  on the message from this one it's weave [TS]

  through the the great thing about it is [TS]

  that it's in such a great superhero [TS]

  movie the messages we've throughout the [TS]

  story it is not delivered by exposition [TS]

  or tacked onto another story about good [TS]

  guys versus bad guys it is the story the [TS]

  story is you know it's so nicely [TS]

  intertwined and it has some of my [TS]

  favorite scenes I think we've talked [TS]

  about in past podcast were just send up [TS]

  some things like the i think i said this [TS]

  for my favorite scene in the entire [TS]

  movies when he arrives on the island [TS]

  with the sort of James Bond type since [TS]

  arriving in the autopilot thing that [TS]

  stands up against any actual James Bond [TS]

  sequence that it's that it's you know [TS]

  playing off of yes it's just so so [TS]

  amazing that he wanted parity is that [TS]

  things that transcends the things that [TS]

  it's parodying I this I just love this [TS]

  movie I can cannot say enough good [TS]

  things about it [TS]

  yeah I one thing about a lot of these [TS]

  pixar movies is that they take something [TS]

  that is a you know they've got the kind [TS]

  of adult thing that's of interest to [TS]

  adults and then they've got the stuff [TS]

  the kids like and I think in some ways [TS]

  this is the best example of that because [TS]

  the kids really don't get the midlife [TS]

  crisis thing they just a and they just [TS]

  don't get it at all it is so far [TS]

  outside of the realm of your kid even [TS]

  beginning to understand it I think [TS]

  and yet that is a big part of it but it [TS]

  doesn't detract because from the kids [TS]

  perspective you know my kids are much [TS]

  more focused on on dash and file it and [TS]

  and syndrome and what he's gonna be [TS]

  doing and then talking about you know [TS]

  the fact that bob has got a sketchy new [TS]

  car and this is is working out and isn't [TS]

  saying to his wife where he's a where [TS]

  he's going every day but that that plays [TS]

  a apart and then the overarching theme [TS]

  on top of everything else is really [TS]

  about kind of daring to be during to be [TS]

  exceptional and not fitting in with the [TS]

  crowd and you know that thats not only [TS]

  it well done but it's such a great [TS]

  message to have in a movie so that yes I [TS]

  get it checked checks all the boxes for [TS]

  me to which of course it does [TS]

  yeah they didn't want my favorite [TS]

  speaking of things that kids don't like [TS]

  to my favorite little sections of the [TS]

  movie that I guess you have to I guess [TS]

  is more even I just family but marriage [TS]

  angle haha the one scene where he's he's [TS]

  on the phone with the secret agent type [TS]

  thing in his wife is calling him before [TS]

  she calling for dinner or something like [TS]

  that right and the other one wife is [TS]

  nobody calling me something be right [TS]

  there be right there and the other one [TS]

  with the that the wife is vacuuming by [TS]

  herself in the house something that [TS]

  stuck in the rollers everything that's [TS]

  just it they the images of what actual [TS]

  suburban married life is like and even [TS]

  just even just the often thing like what [TS]

  that their voices name Frozone screaming [TS]

  where his super suit advice and she [TS]

  won't tell him we're interested why do [TS]

  you want to know just tell me where it [TS]

  is that is those type of little tiny [TS]

  moments that you know it [TS]

  that's not what the movie is about but [TS]

  it's just it rings so true and brings [TS]

  you so much into this universe that [TS]

  you're willing to buy all of the the [TS]

  other stuff and you talk about the kids [TS]

  being excited superhero parts in the [TS]

  kids with the kids are not the main [TS]

  characters in the movie by a long shot [TS]

  and get kids will watch it and think the [TS]

  kids are the main characters like it's [TS]

  you know i mean it's it's such a it's [TS]

  like three different movies in one [TS]

  depending on who's watching it's [TS]

  interesting i think of all the pixar [TS]

  films that my kids have seen that's [TS]

  probably the one that their least [TS]

  interested in it just doesn't really it [TS]

  just hasn't really grabbed him and I [TS]

  think part of it is because [TS]

  as I that's probably the darkest of the [TS]

  pixar films in terms of you actually get [TS]

  a sense that there's a possibility that [TS]

  these characters might die and part of [TS]

  that's why I probably because they're [TS]

  human know what suppose it is it will [TS]

  but it's rated PG and and there is that [TS]

  moment that is I think I think in some [TS]

  ways the best moment in the movie even [TS]

  though it's just dialogue it's where [TS]

  we're at last girl where Holly Hunter [TS]

  tells the kids you know those Saturday [TS]

  morning cartoons right [TS]

  these people aren't like that if they [TS]

  find you they will kill you should i go [TS]

  mike lombardi right but what that is [TS]

  it's so it really sets the stakes higher [TS]

  and and so it is darker but at the same [TS]

  time I a I i guess maybe this is a lot [TS]

  of what John said earlier so you gotta [TS]

  their ways where you need to push the [TS]

  story and and challenge even the kids [TS]

  when they're watching it i love that [TS]

  moment and every time I i watch it with [TS]

  my kids I look at them while they're [TS]

  while they're watching it because that's [TS]

  the moment where you know it inject some [TS]

  real jeopardy [TS]

  that wasn't there before and it works [TS]

  but it is it is dark and it is a little [TS]

  scary [TS]

  then they have that I the most accurate [TS]

  visual manifestation of the the mental [TS]

  state of parenting after the jet [TS]

  explodes when elastigirl wraps her [TS]

  entire body around her two children to [TS]

  save them from the exploding plane which [TS]

  is the thing that every parent wishes [TS]

  they could do but can actually do [TS]

  because it's impossible that you can you [TS]

  could physically envelop your children [TS]

  and save them from explosion you know [TS]

  what I mean like that that one little [TS]

  scene there it's it's a superhero seen [TS]

  it's ridiculous and has no bearing on [TS]

  reality with the same time if you are a [TS]

  parent and you watch that you're like [TS]

  yes that's what I would do if I got it [TS]

  you know i mean thats the in fact that [TS]

  scene is the one that gets my wife to [TS]

  tear up as the is where she with the [TS]

  she's a trying to save her kids on the [TS]

  plane and then she has to wrap around [TS]

  them when the when the plane explodes [TS]

  it's because of the emotional weight [TS]

  that it carries at 44 parents were [TS]

  people understand parenting whereas the [TS]

  kids angle yeah like you said the [TS]

  previous one they got the speech about [TS]

  that these people will kill you you know [TS]

  so in something for everybody and not [TS]

  not buying anything over there but [TS]

  right now it's great what can we say if [TS]

  you don't like the incredibles there's [TS]

  something wrong with you which would you [TS]

  call it incredible [TS]

  IES yes it would be just a recursive [TS]

  incredible incredible incredibles this [TS]

  forever about it if you don't like the [TS]

  incredibles you you can't be my friend [TS]

  anymore [TS]

  that's just what it comes down to yes [TS]

  there's so my wife and I were talking [TS]

  about this before i started recording [TS]

  and I said I don't know what I'm gonna [TS]

  do because after after the incredibles [TS]

  there are a couple that may befall next [TS]

  in line and one of one of them would be [TS]

  toy story 2 but you know I think rather [TS]

  than pick one of the toy stories in this [TS]

  round I'm gonna go with monsters inc [TS]

  very nice which it's a parenting thing [TS]

  is it's it may be but it's early it you [TS]

  know their fourth movie it it's got some [TS]

  really interesting it's kind of [TS]

  interesting look um you know the furry [TS]

  monsters and all of that I love the [TS]

  conceit that the doors are you know I [TS]

  basically like teleportation devices and [TS]

  it and they explore that conceit to its [TS]

  absolute limit in a way that it could [TS]

  have been very easy for it to just be a [TS]

  one sort of thing well it's a portal but [TS]

  it's like the doors and the doors go to [TS]

  different places and you can fall [TS]

  through in the action scene at the end [TS]

  they're falling through doors into other [TS]

  places and then back outdoors and you [TS]

  know they're 90 degree angles where [TS]

  gravity shifts as they fall through the [TS]

  door its portal it is it is porthole [TS]

  right but it's also kind of a play on [TS]

  that classic hallway scene that used to [TS]

  get in the wacky comedies and nobody [TS]

  nowhere in the ring guy with yeah [TS]

  exactly i would disappear into a door on [TS]

  the left and then reappear in the [TS]

  foreground on the right [TS]

  yeah so this is very cool so there's all [TS]

  of that there's what what you we [TS]

  mentioned earlier which is there's just [TS]

  that nice pics are flip on it which is [TS]

  that that monsters are just as scared of [TS]

  the kids the kids are scared of the [TS]

  monsters monsters are just trying to do [TS]

  their jobs [TS]

  that I like there's the variations on [TS]

  the monster kind of body types and these [TS]

  characters that you couldn't do in any [TS]

  other way but an animation where there's [TS]

  like you know the Billy Crystal's [TS]

  character mike is is is an eye with legs [TS]

  and then John Goodman's characters the [TS]

  big furry guy who's a big furry monster [TS]

  and it yet when you look at like the way [TS]

  he's colored in his his colored kind of [TS]

  interesting multicolored for with spots [TS]

  you know at first glance in silhouette [TS]

  and the darkies scary but in the light [TS]

  of day he's not scary at all and then [TS]

  the whole mental level of us kids are [TS]

  afraid of what's under the bed and [TS]

  what's in the closet and and yet you [TS]

  know we once you get to know that once [TS]

  you take a little look further they're [TS]

  just like you know the rest of us the [TS]

  monsters are people too [TS]

  I can assist is it is what the messages [TS]

  it's um you know it's a charming movie [TS]

  even now all these years later I there's [TS]

  just so many things that I like about [TS]

  that movie including the fact that it's [TS]

  got that emotional residents that Pixar [TS]

  is always good at and it's got some [TS]

  great action and you know the end of [TS]

  that movie where he's a piece the door [TS]

  back together so that so we can go and [TS]

  Cebu the little girl one last time you [TS]

  know if we're talking about just me i'm [TS]

  just imagining it seems that getcha it [TS]

  in my top five picks are T reducing [TS]

  moments that you know that's pretty high [TS]

  up on the list so you know monsters you [TS]

  know [TS]

  yeah is it a better movie then then Toy [TS]

  Story 2 or toy story 3 or finding nemo I [TS]

  don't know it's so hard for me to pick [TS]

  but they're things in it that I I [TS]

  thought I still just look at really [TS]

  fondly it and you know the the door [TS]

  concede i think pushes it over the top [TS]

  because they they use it in every they [TS]

  squeeze every possible thing you could [TS]

  squeeze out of a concept out of it which [TS]

  when I was watching it I thought for the [TS]

  first time I thought well what about [TS]

  this what about this [TS]

  well they're not going to deal with its [TS]

  just to get a get them through the door [TS]

  to the Otherworld it's like The Lion the [TS]

  Witch and the Wardrobe there's a portal [TS]

  and you go through it and that's it [TS]

  oh no no we're going to explore every [TS]

  single thing this could mean if there [TS]

  were doors that were portals so [TS]

  that's not one of the things that I like [TS]

  about monsters egg and and I actually [TS]

  probably would have gone with you on [TS]

  that without being my third-favorite [TS]

  although largely it was Pete's [TS]

  specifically because of the whole scene [TS]

  at the end there which actually I was [TS]

  choking up with you talking about it [TS]

  just now but I it's really the first of [TS]

  the pixar films where they could be [TS]

  completely liberated from from any kind [TS]

  of realistic constraints mean the toys [TS]

  you know its toys but of course they're [TS]

  they're living inside of Andy's house so [TS]

  you know there's there's some kind of a [TS]

  real-world constraint put on what the [TS]

  toys can reasonably do you know bugs are [TS]

  bugs and they can only do bug things and [TS]

  they can do some cool things they can he [TS]

  get the cool perspective of the city [TS]

  that's constructed of empty popcorn [TS]

  boxes and so forth but monsters inc i [TS]

  think is really the first film where [TS]

  they were able to to put together a [TS]

  completely unrealistic a cityscape they [TS]

  were constrained at all by the the [TS]

  character designs as you mentioned every [TS]

  monster is different i think they really [TS]

  for the first time we're able to [TS]

  completely go hog-wild and it with their [TS]

  imaginations and just come up with the [TS]

  craziest things they could and I think [TS]

  they did a bang-up job on that it also [TS]

  monsters inc i think has probably my [TS]

  favorite pixar running gag in the form [TS]

  of George Sanderson who is the victim [TS]

  the unwitting dupe who invariably gets [TS]

  gets it sanitized every time [TS]

  all right from the from the human and [TS]

  rock thrown on him right he gets the [TS]

  sock on him he gets shaved down i think [TS]

  two or three times it's it's it's a [TS]

  great sequence it's it's a would [TS]

  certainly one of my favorites in terms [TS]

  of just just pure humor in a running gag [TS]

  form i think be at vita the adult angle [TS]

  in this movie which I hadn't thought of [TS]

  enjoyed it see it again recently is the [TS]

  blue-collar factory work the fact that [TS]

  the monsters are going to work in a [TS]

  factory and have a boss and have [TS]

  hierarchy within work and have either [TS]

  you know satisfaction with their job or [TS]

  you know where how is their working life [TS]

  going something again the kids probably [TS]

  can't relate to but any adult who has [TS]

  ever had a job can relate to that [TS]

  workplace like atmosphere atmosphere and [TS]

  and their livelihood is threatened to [TS]

  write that like the underpinnings of the [TS]

  industry areas in economic threat that [TS]

  unemployment is the threat and economics [TS]

  unemployment and energy policy and that [TS]

  you know it's just there it's in the [TS]

  background apartments for the adults so [TS]

  we can relate to this insane world with [TS]

  ridiculous creatures because they're [TS]

  just you know they're collecting a check [TS]

  and punching and punching out just what [TS]

  you got in a conflict with the primary [TS]

  villain is is primarily a a climbing up [TS]

  the corporate ladder cut a deal [TS]

  yeah so you get a 2 it's like working [TS]

  girl with monsters it no it's like [TS]

  working girl haha wow I don't know what [TS]

  I mean I don't even know Melanie [TS]

  Griffith this lovely lady [TS]

  yes yes yeah I everything is a billy [TS]

  crystal at was cuz i don't know if he [TS]

  was wasted in this movie I think he was [TS]

  good in this movie but i think it was [TS]

  early in Pixar's development that if [TS]

  affects our had Billy Crystal now or if [TS]

  they had billy crystal lattice prime now [TS]

  they could do even more with him he [TS]

  carry entire movie himself because he [TS]

  does sort of overshadow John Goodman and [TS]

  he does it in that I would compare it to [TS]

  this is the light side the dark side is [TS]

  robin williams in Aladdin right where I [TS]

  he's talented but he overwhelms the [TS]

  whole movie is about Robin Williams [TS]

  Billy Crystal plays a character here you [TS]

  know it's like crystal any he adds all [TS]

  the value he can but he doesn't dominate [TS]

  the movie or do so i think it's probably [TS]

  mostly just has to do with the writing [TS]

  but i would say this is a a good example [TS]

  of of Robin Williams and an Aladdin and [TS]

  the crystal i really think could carry [TS]

  one of these movies himself without the [TS]

  John Goodman in angle i was actually [TS]

  going to say that billy crystal is [TS]

  probably the the worst part of the film [TS]

  for me just because you know is [TS]

  distracting [TS]

  no he his it works for that because he's [TS]

  got great lines and he delivers them [TS]

  well but at the same time he's just [TS]

  being Billy Crystal mean I don't I [TS]

  there's not enough of the difference [TS]

  between the character and the way [TS]

  delivered his lines and the way Billy [TS]

  Crystal just generally delivers his [TS]

  stand-up lines and what what that does [TS]

  to me is it brings it dangerously close [TS]

  to the realm of the door [TS]

  more film where you know you've got a [TS]

  guy that's just allowed to drift in the [TS]

  same style that he always he always does [TS]

  in stand-up or is his other acting gigs [TS]

  or whatever that's Robin Williams in the [TS]

  Latin problem to exactly intelligent [TS]

  drives me up the wall but i think it [TS]

  avoids that because he has an actual [TS]

  character arc he has he's not just the [TS]

  wisecracking sidekick he has his own [TS]

  problems and his own things that he's [TS]

  trying to get done he's not just there [TS]

  to serve the needs of John Goodman he's [TS]

  not just there to advance the plot he [TS]

  has his girlfriend he has his own [TS]

  concerns about his working life and [TS]

  their relationship and eat [TS]

  he's actually I mean I guess you could [TS]

  say he was not so much reprising his [TS]

  stand-up as like it's the guy from one [TS]

  errant salad because he has relationship [TS]

  issues and he's funny and wise cracking [TS]

  I maybe you could you could fault them [TS]

  for that it to me though it's like [TS]

  watching Billy Crystal with a character [TS]

  arc and 1i instead of watching a [TS]

  character with the character arc and [TS]

  Billy Crystal is also here here's the [TS]

  litmus test did you like one argument [TS]

  Sally I did yeah I one of my favorite [TS]

  movies of all time are actually just [TS]

  making sure you're not just anti Billy [TS]

  Graham and I like city slickers to in [TS]

  which he plays Billy Crystal with a hat [TS]

  are as taking it too far but that said [TS]

  John there are parts of when harry met [TS]

  sally where it's very clearly just Billy [TS]

  Crystal doing his stand up and they've [TS]

  stuck it in the movie right but he's a [TS]

  likable it is very likely never again if [TS]

  I had billy crystal in my movie i would [TS]

  say Billy whatever just go right just [TS]

  make your jokes and we'll leave them in [TS]

  because they're funny the Oscar hosting [TS]

  thing want to see how him [TS]

  we'll fix it at least he was doing his [TS]

  stand up but his kids him as a person [TS]

  you can imagine him in real life doing [TS]

  that stick to because it's not his [TS]

  stand-up is not alien to his personality [TS]

  he's just like that and you know if he [TS]

  was in a store picking up a pickle or [TS]

  something he would do a little skit [TS]

  about the pickle that he didn't write [TS]

  beforehand was just the way he is you [TS]

  know I want to see I want to see [TS]

  pictures of next movie be a remake of [TS]

  when harry met sally where billy crystal [TS]

  is a giant green eyeball there you'll [TS]

  finally get your pg-13 scene might even [TS]

  put you two in our bball have with the [TS]

  pink monster is having I I'm kind of [TS]

  disappointed that they cancel new [TS]

  because it had you heard the plot [TS]

  synopsis of Newt [TS]

  I yes that is that a like a lab test low [TS]

  animal who's paired with a with the last [TS]

  surviving animal in the world and it's a [TS]

  romantic comedy [TS]

  yes basically like romantic comedy with [TS]

  lizards and I would have been [TS]

  interesting to see pics are do that [TS]

  because the Lizardman lab angle would [TS]

  have been good for you know skewering [TS]

  scientific experiments and all those [TS]

  types of things whatever but it's hard [TS]

  it would be a romantic comedy and i [TS]

  think that i would like to see a pixar [TS]

  romantic comedy this is jon was a [TS]

  have-not they have in mind yet [TS]

  yeah that would be its kind of ashamed i [TS]

  got can but I don't know Wally for the [TS]

  first the first the first act of Wally [TS]

  could arguably be considered a romantic [TS]

  comedy [TS]

  yeah kind of in the night goes off the [TS]

  rails I i think i think that's true it [TS]

  you could you could argue well it's it's [TS]

  a Wally is in you know is a romance in a [TS]

  way that the other pixar movies aren't I [TS]

  i want something you mentioned when you [TS]

  mentioned problems in the lab and i want [TS]

  to mention here that and you mentioned [TS]

  DreamWorks one of the things that i love [TS]

  about pixar movies and that I think is a [TS]

  grievous mistake of the dreamworks [TS]

  movies is uh pixar movies exist in a [TS]

  timeless world their movies that are [TS]

  designed a journalism professor who [TS]

  worked at the New York Daily News and he [TS]

  always said that the Daily News was [TS]

  meant to be read by people living in New [TS]

  York and that the New York Times was [TS]

  meant to be used in reference library is [TS]

  so that 20 years time people could find [TS]

  out what life was like back then and [TS]

  that's our sort of how I feel about [TS]

  Pixar's like Pixar they build it to be [TS]

  timeless they build it to be something [TS]

  that you can watch with your kids in 20 [TS]

  years 30 years whereas you know I showed [TS]

  my kids aladdin and it's like yeah he's [TS]

  doing like William F Buckley references [TS]

  and it's just all Dangerfield so dated [TS]

  and and pixar seems to be kind of [TS]

  brutally tough about just know we're not [TS]

  going to do things that are going to be [TS]

  non classic kind of references and I [TS]

  love that about them because the end of [TS]

  the shrek movies are not gonna they're [TS]

  not going to age well at all rights [TS]

  they're all about current popular [TS]

  culture references and I think it's a [TS]

  exact think it's a huge mistake to go [TS]

  down that route [TS]

  when you should I think pictures got it [TS]

  exactly right which is you can't do that [TS]

  you can't you gotta be timeless because [TS]

  these are cute these are you're trying [TS]

  to make a classic kids movie right [TS]

  the last thing you want to do when [TS]

  you're trying to make a classic kids [TS]

  movie is make it so that nobody will [TS]

  understand the references in 15 years [TS]

  it's not so much that they age poorly [TS]

  which they do but that it's a lazy way [TS]

  to write even in the moment when they're [TS]

  relevant they're not as funny as a [TS]

  genuinely funny written jokes sequence [TS]

  voters are relying on the the [TS]

  familiarity with this thing to get you [TS]

  out of having to write an actual gag [TS]

  which is just lazy [TS]

  it's lazy it can be funny but it is lazy [TS]

  and it completely sabotages I think the [TS]

  long life of your film and but you're [TS]

  right it it's classier it's it's it's [TS]

  better to go for the true joke [TS]

  instead of the kind of topical reference [TS]

  and pics are just doesn't do that and [TS]

  it's particularly bad in some of the [TS]

  cases you mentioned like a publicly [TS]

  reference was dated 20 years before how [TS]

  ya lad never came out and I actually [TS]

  quite enjoyed shrek but i think is I was [TS]

  watching shrek I could smell the [TS]

  freshness date coming up like within the [TS]

  next two weeks for half the jokes in the [TS]

  movie [TS]

  yeah i was thinking that this is some of [TS]

  these jokes are tired and we're tired [TS]

  decades it goes to the soundtracks to [TS]

  right i mean fa the Pixar has a [TS]

  smashmouth has no place in a classic [TS]

  films are exactly right that that that [TS]

  that is what i was getting gap good well [TS]

  well put it is that you want their [TS]

  pictures really careful the center which [TS]

  is not to say that they haven't done [TS]

  some popular music there's some popular [TS]

  music and cars but it's it you know they [TS]

  have carefully chosen and not like let's [TS]

  get a hit from the last three years it's [TS]

  like let's get songs about cars and [TS]

  we'll have you know have remade in a [TS]

  certain style and you know it with the [TS]

  or they or they compose their own music [TS]

  ready to get randy newman or somebody [TS]

  else to write a song in the style they [TS]

  want about their a topic and you know we [TS]

  can quibble about randy newman because a [TS]

  lot of people feel like every brand new [TS]

  man song sounds the same [TS]

  not everyone just half of them but you [TS]

  know when their son by sarah mclachlan [TS]

  strange that's right but pics are you [TS]

  know again goes that extra mile to be [TS]

  timeless and classic and it it [TS]

  you know absolutely pays off compared to [TS]

  that that's why they are above the other [TS]

  movies if this is not to say that there [TS]

  are some other good animated and [TS]

  computer animated features that have [TS]

  been made sense toy story came out there [TS]

  there are I I will defend you know [TS]

  several of them but you know that's [TS]

  usually a huge failing of them is [TS]

  they're they're kind of cheap a pop [TS]

  culture reference humor instead of [TS]

  trying to go for something that's going [TS]

  to stand the test of time like animated [TS]

  scary movie [TS]

  yeah exactly would be good for live [TS]

  action word world the only movies that [TS]

  dare to do that are the scary movies you [TS]

  never see like and even just a [TS]

  run-of-the-mill well it's like the [TS]

  bottom of the barrel like it [TS]

  live-action movie seemed much more [TS]

  reticent to do the pop culture reference [TS]

  i guess because those people have more [TS]

  experience or the writers or you know [TS]

  the rewriters just know you gotta cut [TS]

  that out but in an animated movie like [TS]

  yeah you want to make reference that go [TS]

  ahead but my actually they do it because [TS]

  they can get away with it [TS]

  I mean they did they know their audience [TS]

  and and in the case of the scary movie [TS]

  films the first was actually pretty [TS]

  decent and then they've they've followed [TS]

  on with just the same stuff repeated [TS]

  over and over again and that the pop [TS]

  culture references get shorter timed and [TS]

  less amusing right go on their made to [TS]

  be doing what is this point they've got [TS]

  exactly and they've got an audience [TS]

  that's happy to absorb that and and and [TS]

  eat the disposable film and get a kick [TS]

  out of it and toss it away and i think [TS]

  the the DreamWorks hooks think their [TS]

  audiences unsophisticated and they [TS]

  pander to them basically right right [TS]

  where they are they there they know that [TS]

  they can get away with being lazy and [TS]

  writing crap and they think that their [TS]

  audiences that won't catch it because [TS]

  they're kids and they're not supposed to [TS]

  get enough i guess is where i was trying [TS]

  to go with that for the last five and a [TS]

  half men all our listeners uh who work [TS]

  at DreamWorks have now heard their ipod [TS]

  out of their car and run over a few [TS]

  times and our unsubscribe that they've [TS]

  they've greatly improved have to say [TS]

  DreamWorks says yeah since since the [TS]

  early shrek days they'd certainly don't [TS]

  do that as much as they used to [TS]

  megamind dreamworks and I thought that [TS]

  was actually a really good movie with [TS]

  but but I think they've learned some [TS]

  lessons right or at least they they that [TS]

  movie in particular is not as a [TS]

  pop-culture focus but it's still really [TS]

  stunt [TS]

  asked which is the other part of it [TS]

  right is the casting right there are [TS]

  stars in pixar movie stars voices but i [TS]

  rarely feel like the the parts are stunt [TS]

  cast now billy crystal and john goodman [TS]

  actually is an example of one more stunt [TS]

  casting but in the early days i think [TS]

  they did more of that with you know [TS]

  again done with a with Tom Hanks and and [TS]

  it on Helen and Tim Allen exactly but [TS]

  like up is is Lou Grant right it's tents [TS]

  and Asner but now you know [TS]

  oh boy and adds a scary movie at last [TS]

  her a nobody is saying that and it [TS]

  because it's just not it's just not [TS]

  relevant in cars or Wilson is in cars [TS]

  but yeah and bonnie hunt and larry the [TS]

  cable guy right i mean they were cast [TS]

  but they were cast because they're gonna [TS]

  bring in the people and I think maybe [TS]

  that's that's something that that pixar [TS]

  does better than other studios to [TS]

  because as much as I like love [TS]

  megamind i am reminded that it is very [TS]

  specifically will ferrell and Tina Fey [TS]

  and actually will ferrell doesn't bother [TS]

  me so much because that's an outlandish [TS]

  character the tina fey kind of bothers [TS]

  me because it's like she kind of looks [TS]

  like Tina Fey and she kind of doesn't [TS]

  and she sounds exactly like Tina Fey cuz [TS]

  it's tina fey and it's like I felt like [TS]

  two on the nose and not not the right [TS]

  decision and I compared to something [TS]

  into some extent I think that's a little [TS]

  bit where Disney went wrong over the [TS]

  years where they gradually transition [TS]

  from from having unknowns voicing their [TS]

  characters to having increasingly famous [TS]

  people it and you know for a while they [TS]

  sort of teetered on the brink where they [TS]

  had guys like Terry Thomas and and phil [TS]

  harris who just had a big booming voices [TS]

  but weren't necessarily known for their [TS]

  personalities are there you know the [TS]

  film's they done or the TV shows they've [TS]

  been on it and and now they've [TS]

  completely made the transition into we [TS]

  have a hooded the tangled who is waste [TS]

  of that the girl entangled mandy moore [TS]

  and mandy moore right she's not so much [TS]

  less relevant and she wants was and [TS]

  she's become an actor yet but it and but [TS]

  but certainly I think private pinnacle [TS]

  of that was the Robin Williams casting [TS]

  but it's it's it's funny how much [TS]

  they're there the enjoyment of their [TS]

  films for me kind of follows that exact [TS]

  same sort of the path I was going to [TS]

  cancers the low point oh dear lizzy low [TS]

  point of stunt casting low point of make [TS]

  the same movie the Pixar is making it [TS]

  much worse and and low point of [TS]

  characters you know trying to make the [TS]

  characters in the movie they want that I [TS]

  think that Woody Allen and sylvester [TS]

  stallone if i recall correctly and some [TS]

  crazy combination of people and then you [TS]

  had ants faces that look like Sylvester [TS]

  Stallone's computerized head shoved on [TS]

  aunt and Woody Allen it's just that was [TS]

  that was a real low [TS]

  it's the best by bug's life looks so [TS]

  good in retrospect you like but remember [TS]

  hantsport bugs like my way better than [TS]

  that one again that's it that's a major [TS]

  that's their second release in who were [TS]

  the top lenders there it's dave foley [TS]

  and david Hyde Pierce and Julia Louie [TS]

  Dreyfus and me again pics are picking [TS]

  kind of known actors good actors but not [TS]

  for their star appeal and not just about [TS]

  the seats [TS]

  yeah yeah in fact the Brad Pitt is the [TS]

  superhero and megamind honestly it's [TS]

  like totally irrelevant right that's [TS]

  that's why that works in a way that it [TS]

  doesn't if it's you know just it's eddie [TS]

  murphy is a donkey [TS]

  he's crazy it takes our hearts disguise [TS]

  I don't disguise the voices like for [TS]

  example when you mentioned a holly hunt [TS]

  was in the incredibles I had never [TS]

  realized that she was elastigirl yeah [TS]

  until you mentioned it but now you say [TS]

  like yeah it is hi I'm Craig neverson [TS]

  whoo-hoo i know crazy Nelson is mr. [TS]

  coach never coach would never think that [TS]

  I see the characters in the movie and I [TS]

  don't even think like I guess maybe they [TS]

  don't have distinct voices or whatever [TS]

  very rarely in a Pixar movie unless it's [TS]

  really agree just like John Goodman I [TS]

  mean you're and doing risky going to [TS]

  pick them out but they also don't make [TS]

  the mistake of trying to make that the [TS]

  characters look a little bit like the [TS]

  voice actors which is something the [TS]

  disney started and it's got worse and [TS]

  worse over the years isn't used to be [TS]

  obsessed with that they would show you [TS]

  the little videos look we filmed him [TS]

  doing his dialogue and then we make the [TS]

  face look exactly like his face well if [TS]

  it that's not the character don't do [TS]

  that right although they were when they [TS]

  were doing for guys like Terry Thomas it [TS]

  be [TS]

  it was a funny joke you know but when [TS]

  you've got guys [TS]

  that are better known just for piano [TS]

  some cheap disposable entertainment and [TS]

  the whole joke is a look it's a it's [TS]

  woody allen for instance you know it's [TS]

  it's not funny anymore and it's [TS]

  distracting and it completely removes [TS]

  any ability of voice to become the [TS]

  characters voice as opposed to Woody [TS]

  Allen's voice superimposed on top of an [TS]

  animation and I don't think Woody Allen [TS]

  was too into that either no it's not [TS]

  given he's phoning it in there versus [TS]

  when Matt very literally this is a good [TS]

  comparison because even though Tom Hanks [TS]

  is the a tapas top a-list triple-a like [TS]

  that he was just coming off like to ask [TS]

  Oscars I don't know if what the timeline [TS]

  was there but he's he's at the top of [TS]

  the thing you get the impression that he [TS]

  didn't phone in woody and certainly not [TS]

  in the second and third one you know [TS]

  that he was actually acting for that [TS]

  role in the way the Tom Hanks does you [TS]

  know [TS]

  yes absolutely alright work we have [TS]

  talked so much and i know there's so [TS]

  much more for us to talk about so we're [TS]

  going to pause it [TS]

  we're gonna end part 1 of this podcast [TS]

  here and we're going to come back is it [TS]

  okay will you guys come back for part [TS]

  two next week [TS]

  I can't wait that long well you're going [TS]

  to have to John will you be back [TS]

  situation will kill more do you refuse [TS]

  to return I'll consider it right all [TS]

  right well well they ponder i will thank [TS]

  you for listening to part one of the [TS]

  pics our podcast at the uncomfortable [TS]

  this is jason Snell for John Syracuse [TS]

  and Steve let's thanks for listening and [TS]

  we'll see you next time [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  helpful skype volume level or will turn [TS]

  me into a gigantic blown-out plan pocket [TS]

  but it hasn't [TS]

  good I'm glad to hear that displeases me [TS]

  did you just say clown pocket I i went [TS]

  to urban dictionary and look it up and [TS]

  indeed richness Kato's description of it [TS]

  was correct place from the urban [TS]

  dictionary perspective we have a friend [TS]

  who's who was a his story Steve and I [TS]

  and several other friends from college [TS]

  had had a dinner last week and a friend [TS]

  who's a freelance journalist had an [TS]

  editor tell him was it that his story [TS]

  was a was a clown pocket he said editing [TS]

  one of your morning briefs is like [TS]

  bending a clown pocket it did not mean [TS]

  what he thought it meant [TS]

  oh it is trying to be hip and happening [TS]

  with it so he's using references to the [TS]

  pockets of clowns [TS]

  it strikes me that a grammarian should [TS]

  be aware that there are multiple [TS]

  connotations of any given term that one [TS]

  might use the other connotation what is [TS]

  the what is the one ya like an actual [TS]

  ground products thank you like a thing [TS]

  like pie [TS]

  he was being literal a pocket on the [TS]

  clown because God distinct from regular [TS]

  pockets in some way that's their get [TS]

  happy [TS]

  yeah but bozo keeps his keys in his coat [TS]

  pocket and if one broke loose one would [TS]

  have a bit of a job trying to sell it [TS]

  back on [TS]

  yeah exactly that's pretty weak [TS]

  yeah yes anyway about that well spotted [TS]

  I'd I thought you were gonna let the [TS]

  club pocket sailrite but I spat audio no [TS]

  sense [TS]

  well it still was bad audio but you did [TS]

  hear it alright yeah [TS]

  thought up had the most PG or possibly [TS]

  pg-13 moment in any Pixar movie i can [TS]

  can either one of you guess which moment [TS]

  i'm going to site now [TS]

  hmm wow well I think it's obviously when [TS]

  they found that bird and it had a clown [TS]

  pocket now and no inside jokes before [TS]

  the recording began when i'm already [TS]

  added that one out [TS]