The Incomparable

51: Zombie Marmaduke (Hugo Awards 2011)


  the incomparable podcast number 51 [TS]

  artists 2011 [TS]

  we're back on the uncomfortable and it [TS]

  is time for the book club or at least [TS]

  the literacy club because we might even [TS]

  talk about some things that aren't books [TS]

  I'm Jason style i'm your host i'm joined [TS]

  by the members of the literacy club Dan [TS]

  Morris here hide am I is glad to be here [TS]

  but I are glad I are glad to be here [TS]

  Jason on and Fleischmann also joins us [TS]

  hi Glenn [TS]

  hi i can recognize at least 20 letters [TS]

  that's good [TS]

  well you gotta work there 10 more miles [TS]

  or extra are you working on the vowels [TS]

  i'm working on the right girl you like [TS]

  to buy one [TS]

  the sniper of Internet podcast comedies [TS]

  I've arbys in the bushes [TS]

  wait for it here he comes it's copic [TS]

  multi-site Scott hello hello [TS]

  I have nothing to say to that is that [TS]

  the greatest introduction ever it is [TS]

  that I families really funny [TS]

  wait here it comes that's a jarhead [TS]

  yes so I here so so in college in [TS]

  college people would introduce i would [TS]

  meet new people my friends would [TS]

  introduce me to someone and they say [TS]

  here Scott he's very funny and then they [TS]

  would look at me and wait for me to say [TS]

  something mr. rubber chicken man except [TS]

  watermelon your hammer my friend tony [TS]

  has a as a default response to that [TS]

  which is just go glam makeup pics he's [TS]

  so funny [TS]

  yes so anyway we're not talking about [TS]

  that or are we may be so this is right [TS]

  so the number one item on the agenda in [TS]

  this podcast is to talk about some [TS]

  novels that were nominated for the hugo [TS]

  award which is given out every year to [TS]

  generally it's sci-fi although there are [TS]

  some fantasy stuff that creeps in there [TS]

  too and that they did this year there [TS]

  are five nominees for the best novel [TS]

  Hugo we have collectively read all of [TS]

  them some of us have read some of them [TS]

  some of us have not I i read all of them [TS]

  i put in the water yeah yeah but aren't [TS]

  you voting as well Jason I am voting now [TS]

  they're gonna ask my ballot so we're [TS]

  going to talk about these novels and [TS]

  we're going to take them in turn and we [TS]

  may throw in some short stories and [TS]

  novels that came up as part of the hugo [TS]

  processes well and so five best novel [TS]

  nominees i guess i'll just take them in [TS]

  order and we can talk about them those [TS]

  who have read them may speak about the [TS]

  middle [TS]

  first one up those who have not read [TS]

  them silence another shot outside and [TS]

  actually I'd love to hear what you have [TS]

  to say having not actually read that [TS]

  book is great that would be a new kind [TS]

  of podcast we could do this once we [TS]

  haven't read my favorite opinions are [TS]

  uninformed picture no book club blackout [TS]

  and all clear two novels by connie [TS]

  willis you know who is author author of [TS]

  many good novels we talked about before [TS]

  and she's won the hugo award before so [TS]

  two novels it's really one story which [TS]

  is why I was generated to get it i have [TS]

  a funny story about that which is I read [TS]

  the first book and I got to the like I [TS]

  was getting close to the end oh it's a [TS]

  long book is a big it's a big book and [TS]

  i'm getting closer onli and they are [TS]

  gonna have to work fast to wrap this up [TS]

  i did not know until I got to the very [TS]

  last page that there was a second part [TS]

  coming look quite literally they just [TS]

  took a novel and cut it yes basically [TS]

  shit into books it's yeah it's that [TS]

  feeling you get when you're 48 minutes [TS]

  into an hour-long TV show and you [TS]

  realize oh no this is not going to end [TS]

  this is going to be to be continued yeah [TS]

  they can't wrap this up [TS]

  yeah so so its second world war two it's [TS]

  about time travelers who go back to [TS]

  study itself in the same universe is to [TS]

  say nothing of the dog and domesday book [TS]

  and the domesday book say nothing of the [TS]

  dog very funny good book Tuesday book [TS]

  other end of the spectrum that very [TS]

  depressing also very good about the [TS]

  black disc this was somewhere in the [TS]

  middle for me really like it's not it's [TS]

  got some very serious points right in [TS]

  there there's some very serious [TS]

  discussion of you know more time and you [TS]

  know the prices people pay but it's not [TS]

  it wasn't as Holy depressing as doomsday [TS]

  book was no there's some there's some [TS]

  amusing parts and then there's the whole [TS]

  kind of carrion spirit that's going on [TS]

  during the Blitz and it really is in [TS]

  many ways so you know largely a [TS]

  historical historical fiction has [TS]

  outlets right i mean that's you've got [TS]

  these these people from the future who [TS]

  are stuck there but they're they're so [TS]

  mired in real time that they just have [TS]

  to live through the Blitz and so you've [TS]

  got you know all these sort of slices of [TS]

  life of people going around in London [TS]

  and out in the countryside and and we're [TS]

  working for the army during the Blitz [TS]

  and as such it is interesting because it [TS]

  does start you start to get this [TS]

  impression of the interminable nature of [TS]

  it [TS]

  I you know there's so many the way that [TS]

  the story is arranged narratively you [TS]

  feel like you're undergoing something [TS]

  you know if something traumatic and [TS]

  catastrophic because it keeps dragging [TS]

  on and we have this sort of plot line [TS]

  for these characters who are stuck in [TS]

  the past [TS]

  keep thinking oh well we'll be rescued [TS]

  soon and then it keeps going a lot but [TS]

  one of the funny things happen is the [TS]

  sort of these alternating timelines and [TS]

  you end it [TS]

  it's kind of hard to perceive of what [TS]

  what's exactly going on that's like [TS]

  they're telling sort of stories from [TS]

  from earlier in the war and later in the [TS]

  war and it turns out you know not to [TS]

  give too much away [TS]

  I you know we maybe we can avoid the [TS]

  spoiler here but it turns out that some [TS]

  of the characters you see are actually [TS]

  it you see in the toward the end of the [TS]

  war or actually characters you've seen [TS]

  earlier in the war going under assumed [TS]

  names so yeah that was kind of a that [TS]

  did definitely confused me when it when [TS]

  it finally got to be like because you [TS]

  start you know very much that you're in [TS]

  the heads of these three characters are [TS]

  so who are really like you know you [TS]

  realized okay they're from the future [TS]

  they're going back in time there [TS]

  historians they're there to do this [TS]

  research and then there are a couple of [TS]

  chapters thrown in where you're like but [TS]

  who is who is this person like you all [TS]

  the sudden you're not in their head [TS]

  right you just observing them as they do [TS]

  strange funny things they also seem to [TS]

  know things right occasionally that you [TS]

  know there's definitely an air and a [TS]

  couple of places of like something's not [TS]

  quite right with this parade or they're [TS]

  hiding their hiding something [TS]

  you get the sense of foreboding that [TS]

  that something's really wrong and at the [TS]

  end of the first book you definitely get [TS]

  the feeling like you know something's [TS]

  gone wrong and having trouble getting [TS]

  back to the to the future and it you [TS]

  know and that's and that's fine and [TS]

  there in the second book I thought that [TS]

  toward the end the you know she she is [TS]

  not afraid to put characters in peril [TS]

  and kill people off and have the [TS]

  ramifications of of that I i thought [TS]

  this book ended really well i was almost [TS]

  ready to give us it late in the first [TS]

  book in early in the second book and I [TS]

  feel you know we can always talk about [TS]

  how we could do a podcast about series [TS]

  that disappoint us after the first book [TS]

  this is a book that could be the start [TS]

  of a whole new [TS]

  cast which is books that needed an [TS]

  editor yes books that needed a freaking [TS]

  editor all gods so many like that [TS]

  because this is too huge book it did not [TS]

  need to be two books it was not two [TS]

  books were yeah it absolutely non-book [TS]

  really that could have been it should [TS]

  have been trimmed down considerably and [TS]

  I understand like I'm saying you know I [TS]

  think there was a idea of like getting [TS]

  across you just how scary and terrifying [TS]

  it was to be stuck with no way out but [TS]

  there were so many there's so many [TS]

  arranged like yeah there's so many [TS]

  arranged like closed mrs. Wright in [TS]

  cases where they're like oh now these [TS]

  two characters are going to meet up and [TS]

  everybody the same town and then they [TS]

  just miss each other and you're like [TS]

  what and then you have to go like [TS]

  another hundred pages before they [TS]

  actually find each other you know so [TS]

  some of those crosses are are funny and [TS]

  some of them are are infuriating like [TS]

  it's just you know just trying to [TS]

  stretch things out the thing that got me [TS]

  though that thing that really drove me [TS]

  to almost operating was um you know [TS]

  these people are from the future and so [TS]

  they're concerned that even though [TS]

  everything we've learned in all these [TS]

  books about how going back in time is [TS]

  that the universe doesn't allow you to [TS]

  change change the timestream that if if [TS]

  you were going to do something to change [TS]

  time you just won't be able to go there [TS]

  to do it so so you when you're a time [TS]

  traveler you want to be careful but you [TS]

  can't really change the future and yet [TS]

  one of these characters in this little [TS]

  yeah spends chapter after Chapter after [TS]

  Chapter you spend in her head [TS]

  we're all she's thinking is oh I need to [TS]

  reach this person I need to tell him [TS]

  this but I can't tell them this because [TS]

  what if he knows this and I can't tell [TS]

  them this because he what [TS]

  and I'm I'm serious hundreds of pages [TS]

  about a worrying about plot [TS]

  ramifications about time travel that are [TS]

  almost certainly not true and i just it [TS]

  was it was a tricky like it's the same [TS]

  notes as the problem right to hit the [TS]

  same notes after time after time endless [TS]

  yeah I really did feel like a dragon and [TS]

  i agree like there's a great so I tell [TS]

  mike should i not tell my co i can tell [TS]

  i better not say anything [TS]

  does he know does he does he no no he [TS]

  doesn't know but I can't tell them yeah [TS]

  it got it got a little bit got a little [TS]

  bit frustrating and that's one of those [TS]

  things where it's like it could have [TS]

  been there is a good story in here there [TS]

  really is it just [TS]

  needed to be shout the the non sci-fi [TS]

  elements are 50 they fascinate and as a [TS]

  historical fiction right it's it's [TS]

  fascinating like this you really get [TS]

  that inside view and the drum at the end [TS]

  where there are real stakes and kind of [TS]

  really real sacrifices made toward the [TS]

  end so that they can get home and and or [TS]

  or have their story resolved in some way [TS]

  you know rear end and then there's some [TS]

  more kind of ships into into not not [TS]

  their home future but you see things [TS]

  sort of in the kind of our present-day [TS]

  where they do some other characters [TS]

  travel in there to try and do some [TS]

  research about what happened to them [TS]

  because they're trying to find them you [TS]

  know that stuff was great too it's just [TS]

  that there's that chunk in the middle [TS]

  where it's just let's dwell on the worry [TS]

  of time travelers and their anhui [TS]

  existential if it was just awful [TS]

  yeah and I and I think to a certain [TS]

  degree a lot of this was accomplished [TS]

  better in her previous books to write i [TS]

  agree i mean she covered a lot of this [TS]

  ground and to say nothing of the dog in [TS]

  don't domesday book are both excellent [TS]

  excellent books much better than this [TS]

  one although this has got you know it's [TS]

  a little like a mash-up that's it it's [TS]

  like those two books mashed-up it and [TS]

  then lots of historical stuff about the [TS]

  Blitz which is really good [TS]

  yeah so but yeah perplexing that it [TS]

  ended up into books and that there was [TS]

  nobody to say you know this should just [TS]

  be shorter it's hard I mean I the ice [TS]

  I imagine that after you you know she's [TS]

  fairly accomplished as ray she's written [TS]

  a lot of great books and I think it a [TS]

  certain point maybe if you don't have [TS]

  the the editor who's willing to stand up [TS]

  to you you know or a lot of people [TS]

  assume all you know she knows what she's [TS]

  doing but even you know even good [TS]

  writers need editors from time to time [TS]

  alright so so that's blackout and all [TS]

  clear redeeming redeeming qualities but [TS]

  as kind of a long way to go [TS]

  would that be kind of your site where i [TS]

  would agree i would agree i I'm glad [TS]

  that I'm not the only person who felt [TS]

  that way because i was like maybe I'm [TS]

  just not getting it like maybe I'm just [TS]

  not as involved in this is I should be [TS]

  but I I there was a lot there are a [TS]

  couple points that really shine through [TS]

  but if it did feel like that repeated [TS]

  hammering of this point yes we get it [TS]

  you're worried about this [TS]

  ok move on third the last third of all [TS]

  clear is just amazing it really is when [TS]

  when it comes time to actually resolve [TS]

  this [TS]

  story oh yeah it becomes quite a [TS]

  page-turner at that point right like [TS]

  yeah but it's just you have to get [TS]

  through whatever 800 pages of Eileen [TS]

  worrying about whether she should tell [TS]

  Mike about that she saw a guy down by [TS]

  the side of the road [TS]

  it's like wow no much too much too much [TS]

  alright so we'll move on our next novel [TS]

  is cry burn which is a miles for Kosygin [TS]

  book by lois mcmaster bujold so Dan and [TS]

  scott and i have read crabber and this [TS]

  is the you know obviously the latest of [TS]

  the 80,000 book along with Miles [TS]

  Vorkosigan saga which we all I think a [TS]

  bond and excellent recommendation we all [TS]

  read these books and enjoy them and did [TS]

  a whole podcast about right [TS]

  so Dan as the as the one who's been [TS]

  reading this book the longest want to [TS]

  give us your take first on on cry i [TS]

  really liked cry Auburn I I don't you [TS]

  know it's not my favorite in the series [TS]

  but coming on the heels of i think it [TS]

  was in like 2003 that the last one [TS]

  diplomatic immunity came out and that [TS]

  book i thought was an absolute i just [TS]

  did not like it [TS]

  it was one is probably my least favorite [TS]

  of the actual books that involve miles [TS]

  and this one I thought was wasn't it an [TS]

  improvement there was a really [TS]

  interesting setting which is it takes [TS]

  place on this world where being frozen [TS]

  in like you know cryogenic storage is [TS]

  like this really you know it's part of [TS]

  society essentially and and all these [TS]

  people get some essentially are you know [TS]

  you're frozen storage and the company or [TS]

  whatever that you've you know that is [TS]

  storing you get your votes or whatever [TS]

  you know it's it's it's right so you end [TS]

  up with his corporate kind of grammar [TS]

  it's that use frozen people as political [TS]

  chefs yeah and and so there and then [TS]

  into this comes this ensures this [TS]

  intrigue that of course mile gets drawn [TS]

  into I mean we kind of start it starts [TS]

  off with this kind of strange like he [TS]

  gets kidnapped right and it starts off [TS]

  with him sort of breaking out of these [TS]

  this kidnapping he befriends this young [TS]

  child sort of street urchin kid and we [TS]

  get we get a whole bunch of chapters [TS]

  from this kids point of view which was [TS]

  kind of interesting I thought in terms [TS]

  of having like miles is in some ways [TS]

  interesting character to see through [TS]

  someone else's lens especially when it's [TS]

  a kid who has this like well there's [TS]

  this guy wandering [TS]

  and he's kind of my size but he's [TS]

  definitely not a child and he seems very [TS]

  straight bitch and I kind of enjoyed [TS]

  that i enjoyed some of the character I [TS]

  think some one of the things i like is [TS]

  that a lot of its secondary characters [TS]

  who could have easily become cookie [TS]

  cutter characters they actually fleshed [TS]

  out a bit [TS]

  there's the which is for Lincoln who [TS]

  sort of this the the political guy on [TS]

  the console on the planet or whatever [TS]

  and he he could have very easily been [TS]

  set up as just a straight file like the [TS]

  guy you know you're a loose cannon you [TS]

  know but he he actually becomes a very [TS]

  sympathetic character and you know takes [TS]

  on an interesting sort of a role in [TS]

  response two miles there you know they [TS]

  are heroic who's kind of his bodyguard [TS]

  I think it's flush out a lot more and i [TS]

  quite enjoy his his his chapters that [TS]

  are narrated from his point of view [TS]

  because he's obviously got a very [TS]

  different perspective on this whole [TS]

  affair and so you know in general I [TS]

  would say it was you know like a solid [TS]

  solid b-plus the ending in particular [TS]

  though like you know pumps it up for me [TS]

  a little bit like that it because you [TS]

  kind of know it's coming but at the same [TS]

  time if you've been reading the series [TS]

  as long as I have you know it was still [TS]

  heart-wrenching it was a heart-wrenching [TS]

  end so basically you've got you know [TS]

  it's kind of a fun adventure and there's [TS]

  some really clever stuff but you know [TS]

  when the plot is resolved then they're [TS]

  sort of like the payoff of the people [TS]

  who've been reading all the books where [TS]

  there's you know sort of secondary thing [TS]

  which is major life events for miles and [TS]

  his family that only really make sense [TS]

  if you've read all the other books and [TS]

  thinking thinking about it gives me [TS]

  goosebumps just in terms of like that's [TS]

  that that's the story that I you know in [TS]

  some ways that's the story I really want [TS]

  to read is the thing that comes after [TS]

  this right there is that nice little [TS]

  epilogue where they sort of delve into [TS]

  how several of the characters the majors [TS]

  characters deal with this change [TS]

  yeah but it really just that last line [TS]

  in the book because you kind of even if [TS]

  you kind of see it coming [TS]

  like once it hits you i just found it I [TS]

  found it very heart-wrenching yeah yeah [TS]

  but the actual adventure you know it's [TS]

  not my money and yeah there's a it's [TS]

  like if there's a caper and they have to [TS]

  go switch bodies out and then solve a [TS]

  mystery of like why is this person than [TS]

  lots of it is funny that [TS]

  that this is a UH there's like a major [TS]

  coincidence that has to happen where [TS]

  miles happens to escape from being there [TS]

  trying to kill them or whatever and this [TS]

  kid happens to find him and it turns out [TS]

  that his mom happens to be deeply [TS]

  involved in the conspiracy that interest [TS]

  miles and that keeps him around you know [TS]

  you get it kind of a lot to get there [TS]

  your butt like once they said it once [TS]

  you sort of get past that premise like [TS]

  that that's you know the setup i think [TS]

  it does kind of you know it rolls [TS]

  downhill a little better but I like [TS]

  miles being put in with these people who [TS]

  are like really poor and they're like [TS]

  squatters in this old factory because [TS]

  he's so he moves in in big circles right [TS]

  he moves in in in nobility right he's a [TS]

  he's a one of the privileged class of [TS]

  the galaxy and so could have him be [TS]

  basically like he's got nothing and he's [TS]

  with these squatters and then when he [TS]

  finally gets to call on some of his [TS]

  resources these squatters are like oh [TS]

  wow you know they really appreciate it [TS]

  because he has power and these people [TS]

  are completely powerless and he's like [TS]

  using his power to get to bring the [TS]

  hammer down a little bit yeah and it's [TS]

  like a righteous thing because he you [TS]

  know these people have been oppressed [TS]

  and exploited for so long and then you [TS]

  know he's making trouble on their behalf [TS]

  these two being miles on their behalf to [TS]

  for their benefit that was a fun take on [TS]

  one miles Scott what do you think well I [TS]

  thought it was fun read but i don't [TS]

  think that it would have been nominated [TS]

  for Hugo had the other novels existed if [TS]

  that makes sense i mean if they didn't [TS]

  exist obviously she wouldn't have [TS]

  written this book but taken by itself i [TS]

  do not think it's a hugo caliber novel [TS]

  in given the context of the series you [TS]

  know your opinion can change but I think [TS]

  if I were voted for the Hugo's i would [TS]

  have to look at each novel on its own [TS]

  and this novel yes I don't think meets [TS]

  the caliber that I expect you go [TS]

  nominated nothing i would agree that I [TS]

  mean I think they're there are [TS]

  definitely books in the series that I [TS]

  think you know have deserved that more [TS]

  that honor more and it's not necessarily [TS]

  the strongest standalone book [TS]

  you know yeah it's fun that's what I [TS]

  agree agree with both of you i think i [TS]

  think it's a fun fun read surprised that [TS]

  got nominated well i guess not too [TS]

  surprised because many miles books have [TS]

  been nominated a few of them of one but [TS]

  you know yeah it absolutely is not of a [TS]

  caliber to really be considered like [TS]

  best novel of the year just because it [TS]

  you know I knew not miles novel is fun [TS]

  and i look forward to the next one but [TS]

  you know it was just you know a fun [TS]

  adventure rump and you know had some [TS]

  interesting ideas but yeah that was that [TS]

  was about as far as it went [TS]

  yeah i-i-i thought a lot of it was [TS]

  predictable which is kosher [TS]

  I mean everybody yeah you know in the [TS]

  same time and I think it tickles that [TS]

  part of you that likes that you know [TS]

  there's a part of me that read the book [TS]

  is like all man i see what's government [TS]

  and Kyrie I still really enjoy the [TS]

  payoff even if icy roads coming [TS]

  did you read the book yet you you're [TS]

  looking for that kind of thing in the [TS]

  the miles saga right because your [TS]

  character you're comfortable with you [TS]

  know kind of how he relates with the [TS]

  world and it's interesting to see him [TS]

  kind of screw-up everybody else's plans [TS]

  and just kind of you know cause trouble [TS]

  yeah agreed alright so we're going to [TS]

  move onto a book that Glen has read part [TS]

  of who the Dervish house by eve and [TS]

  mcdonald I'd be happy to sever the part [TS]

  i read but you didn't you didn't [TS]

  actually stop reading this book and a [TS]

  honey just ran out of time and time it's [TS]

  um yes very i mean i look forward to [TS]

  actually finishing it [TS]

  it's interesting i think i tried to [TS]

  start it several times and it's a little [TS]

  know it's a little of flowery and [TS]

  difficult at first I can't quite figure [TS]

  it's like listening to music in using a [TS]

  different chromatic scale than you're [TS]

  used to your studio used to Western [TS]

  allottees and you listen to something [TS]

  you're like I can't quite figure out if [TS]

  this is good or noise and it took me a [TS]

  number of pages to get into it and then [TS]

  I started to fly along and ran out of [TS]

  time [TS]

  alright well Scott and I read the whole [TS]

  thing is amazing [TS]

  um no I you know I thought it was a I [TS]

  thought it was really good although it's [TS]

  definitely not like super easy light I [TS]

  mean like I blew through cry over and [TS]

  dervish house took more work but i [TS]

  really liked it Scott what did you think [TS]

  I am a huge fan of diverse house and [TS]

  and uh MacDonald in general he is [TS]

  someone who I hadn't read until recently [TS]

  and for some reason I got in my head [TS]

  that a previous one of his books was a [TS]

  kind of a prequel to dervish house was [TS]

  so i said i have to read the river of [TS]

  God's for readers house because it's one [TS]

  story and they are completely unrelated [TS]

  and step in completely different [TS]

  universes both universes being our [TS]

  universe but so you don't have to eat [TS]

  both of them to enjoy this story at all [TS]

  i don't know what i was thinking but [TS]

  what I love about him well I think he's [TS]

  a great writer and he sets his stuff [TS]

  like Glenn you were talking about you [TS]

  know different chromatic scale he sets [TS]

  his settings are non-western which makes [TS]

  it very interesting to me because it's [TS]

  an alien culture and yet it's you know [TS]

  still humans so in a dervish houses case [TS]

  it we get it set and in Turkey [TS]

  yep in the near future and like what 20 [TS]

  40 20 30 something like that [TS]

  20-25 minutes the it's it's me rish [TS]

  future turkey [TS]

  yeah it's great because i have no idea i [TS]

  don't know the cultural enough to know [TS]

  what is actually current behavior I mean [TS]

  know the technology of course but I [TS]

  don't know what's current behavior and [TS]

  what's supposed it feels it feels very [TS]

  genuine so even if it's wrong and feels [TS]

  right but I'm but maybe it's the [TS]

  displacement and a travel log kind of [TS]

  feel to it was like this is cool i'm [TS]

  learning things that may or may not be [TS]

  true but I'm i feel like i'm learning [TS]

  things about Turkey and about this sort [TS]

  of it you know attitude of the Turks [TS]

  toured europe and do they face toward [TS]

  Europe or do they face away from Europe [TS]

  and that's all going on in there which I [TS]

  which is really interesting and then [TS]

  there's the whole sci-fi element on top [TS]

  of them and the the story of the the [TS]

  mellah fide man i don't know which is [TS]

  which is like again i don't know if it's [TS]

  true or not but it's the the somebody he [TS]

  eats honey until he dies and then they [TS]

  put him in a stone casket full of honey [TS]

  and they stored away in the ground and [TS]

  he turns it's like his body turns into [TS]

  honey and then it's supposed to like [TS]

  have magical healing properties of [TS]

  course i love that word i was this like [TS]

  Mel ified you read that you [TS]

  like well I want to know what that is so [TS]

  I talk to somebody who is frustrated by [TS]

  this book and um because they're stupid [TS]

  drunk drunk [TS]

  yes or near future turkey Nana there's [TS]

  like nano technology nano technology [TS]

  startups are happening and and then [TS]

  there's like business guys with [TS]

  investments and there's like gasps [TS]

  investors and all this stuff and they [TS]

  enter these multiple stories and they [TS]

  eventually converge but it takes a long [TS]

  time for them to converge and it's all [TS]

  is keyed off of this [TS]

  oh and there's the kid who's got his [TS]

  robot is nanorobot and the old man who [TS]

  used to be like an academic and is [TS]

  connected to the government who kind of [TS]

  the friends the kid and the kid can't [TS]

  hear not because he can't hear but [TS]

  because loud noises will cause his heart [TS]

  to stop just a video crate crazy amounts [TS]

  of interesting detail [TS]

  oh and the man who the man who sees [TS]

  Jin's oh yeah so so so it all starts [TS]

  with a terrorist bombing in a tram where [TS]

  nobody dies except the bottom which [TS]

  seems strange and to me it was very [TS]

  clear that that was important and that [TS]

  everything was going to come from that [TS]

  and yet I talk to somebody who is [TS]

  frustrated by that i mean the amazing to [TS]

  have a suicide bomber who is literally a [TS]

  suicide bomber not a homicide bombers [TS]

  that is an extraordinary thing in itself [TS]

  right but there's something that happens [TS]

  because of that leads to all these other [TS]

  events to happen including the guy who's [TS]

  like a petty criminal basically an air [TS]

  do well who suddenly starts [TS]

  hallucinating that he's seeing you know [TS]

  sort of religious figures all around him [TS]

  ada and and the fact that the the guy [TS]

  who sees the religious figures and the [TS]

  kid who saw the bombing from his room [TS]

  via his robot and then it's followed by [TS]

  another robot that tries to destroy his [TS]

  robot and then the gas investors are [TS]

  gonna try to sell irradiated gasps yeah [TS]

  right because Iran has had their nuclear [TS]

  complex bombed by the Americans like 10 [TS]

  years before and they've got all this [TS]

  gas but it passes through the radiation [TS]

  zone and just all of this stuff that's [TS]

  so densely packed in there and you know [TS]

  it's going to converge and these [TS]

  characters are the characters are [TS]

  interesting although i did I to the [TS]

  characters of women characters have very [TS]

  similar names and i got really confused [TS]

  about which one was which but you know I [TS]

  figured it out eventually because one of [TS]

  them had a one of the husband and the [TS]

  other one didn't have a husband or a [TS]

  career and was you know meet her [TS]

  family's help to get a job right but uh [TS]

  and and was walking past the tram when [TS]

  it got bombed trying to get to a job [TS]

  interview right so and then it's all [TS]

  connected i can see how it's different [TS]

  the names are kind of difficult to keep [TS]

  strategies they were for me to keep [TS]

  straight all the names because they're [TS]

  so they're not Western name is so [TS]

  exactly so i have no real context for [TS]

  them but i think i just really love the [TS]

  way he writes and the stick it in the [TS]

  river of God's he also which is I think [TS]

  twice the size of the Jewish house and [TS]

  probably has four times as many plot [TS]

  elements that all seem unrelated until [TS]

  the very end he just knows how to weave [TS]

  this very intricate story that you don't [TS]

  really know what why you're reading 5 [TS]

  different stories that seem not related [TS]

  whatsoever until the last maybe ten [TS]

  percent of the book and you're like uh [TS]

  oh ho [TS]

  it all makes sense down well and the [TS]

  fact that they the plot comes together [TS]

  like that which is really interesting [TS]

  but also that he you know and his [TS]

  writing is is really really good [TS]

  some really beautiful descriptions just [TS]

  adjust descriptions of of turkey of [TS]

  Istanbul and the river and the bridge [TS]

  over the river and all that and some you [TS]

  know and then you've got some [TS]

  interesting characters and then if you [TS]

  step back the themes that he's talking [TS]

  about you know he's talking about [TS]

  identity on a lot of different levels [TS]

  right there's Turkish identity and and [TS]

  and how you know on one side of the [TS]

  river you're in europe and on the other [TS]

  side you're in Asia but also there's [TS]

  this whole identity issue with the [TS]

  nanotechnology and what the [TS]

  nanotechnology has to do with like [TS]

  modifying the identities of people and [TS]

  there's a characteristic debate like [TS]

  erasing the memory of a friend of his [TS]

  with this nanotechnology just you know [TS]

  it's such it's something that only [TS]

  science fiction can do and it's actually [TS]

  one of the reasons why really good [TS]

  science fiction is so great and why i [TS]

  love reading it is that you know to use [TS]

  all of these tools to talk about culture [TS]

  and identity and technology and how they [TS]

  all interact [TS]

  and and and then speculate a little bit [TS]

  about a future where the hots the hot [TS]

  tech startups are outside of istanbul [TS]

  turkey instead of in Silicon Valley is [TS]

  uh you know it's really it is just so [TS]

  much to it and it sits there it was a [TS]

  real joy to read it and I want some of [TS]

  those nanobots toys that kid has yeah [TS]

  he's got the it turns into a monkey and [TS]

  a rat and a snake and I mean there's [TS]

  action to I shouldn't say this is like a [TS]

  complex meditation on identity because [TS]

  while it is that there's also like some [TS]

  great action stuff where the you know [TS]

  the monkey robot has to like free a guy [TS]

  and they're doing like hand signals [TS]

  because the guy was being held by these [TS]

  terrorists and that he acted it works on [TS]

  many levels and maybe there's the the [TS]

  mellah five-man which is such a great [TS]

  thing really is not very important [TS]

  whatsoever to little overall plot of the [TS]

  story but it's got some great raiders of [TS]

  the lost ark kindness is that has been [TS]

  open their tracking it down and you know [TS]

  you get that whole concept of the [TS]

  architect who laid out in Istanbul and [TS]

  who wanted to spell the name of God out [TS]

  who did apparently well in this book he [TS]

  spilled up a name of God and that was [TS]

  how they kind of have to figure out [TS]

  where the mellah fide man was and the [TS]

  fanatic who once he saw the name he [TS]

  carries acid on him as we can burn his [TS]

  eyes out [TS]

  so the last thing he sees is the last [TS]

  word of the name of God and then he'll [TS]

  burn his eyes out exactly so much to [TS]

  like and it's not very long book either [TS]

  so I he packs it all it it's really good [TS]

  very good book one of the better books [TS]

  that I've read and and in quite a while [TS]

  yes and if it does not win the hugo [TS]

  something is terribly wrong [TS]

  yeah I great so highly recommended from [TS]

  all of us [TS]

  let's check it up and if if you if you [TS]

  like it you should start read the [TS]

  directions first because it is short and [TS]

  if you like it [TS]

  pick up the river gods which is also [TS]

  fantastic but much longer and much more [TS]

  dense alright we will we will move on to [TS]

  our next hugo nominees selection we're [TS]

  just blowing through the books after [TS]

  band knocking them down if you don't [TS]

  really goes much faster yes yes haha [TS]

  feed by mirror Grant who read fee i did [TS]

  mean for shot and neither of us liked it [TS]

  ok so let me talk about food for manage [TS]

  and winding up can you give you hear it [TS]

  and the pit shit it's crap [TS]

  oh yeah I i have so many problems with [TS]

  this book i will let you go first okay [TS]

  let's see if I can hit the problems that [TS]

  you've got her if you've got your own [TS]

  defeated by mere Grant who is actually [TS]

  mirror grant is actually a pseudonym for [TS]

  a writer of other novels called I guess [TS]

  her name is Shawn Maguire and she wrote [TS]

  this under a pen name she's a she's a [TS]

  sci-fi writer of some sort of position [TS]

  is it young adult stuff is that [TS]

  yeah and I think she's just I think [TS]

  she's generally liked and she wrote this [TS]

  under this other name and it got [TS]

  nominated and it awful up [TS]

  it baffles me anyway so that before i go [TS]

  about bafflement let's just talk about [TS]

  the book feed is is a novel about [TS]

  bloggers yes who are essentially news [TS]

  reporters of the future and this is set [TS]

  in the near future as well where [TS]

  technology is a little more advanced [TS]

  also there's been a zombie apocalypse [TS]

  not making this up [TS]

  zombie apocalypse there's a you know a [TS]

  virus or actually a a virus and a cure [TS]

  for the common cold that meat and create [TS]

  zombies [TS]

  yes and everybody who dies becomes a [TS]

  zombie and if you get bitten [TS]

  if by a zombie you die and then your [TS]

  zombie and an interesting but I think [TS]

  that her world building was interesting [TS]

  so you can also since the the whatever [TS]

  the the zombie particle or whatever you [TS]

  wanna call it has been around it has a [TS]

  virus yet the virus that's probably [TS]

  better is it so it's in everyone and it [TS]

  can just spontaneously activate so you [TS]

  don't have to be bitten by a zombie you [TS]

  can just spontaneously turn into a [TS]

  zombie and animals also turned into [TS]

  zombies over 40 pounds or something so [TS]

  right there's like there's a law that [TS]

  you can't have a pet that's over 40 [TS]

  pounds because it could spontaneously [TS]

  turn into like a zombie [TS]

  Marmaduke but think how Bad's Ombey like [TS]

  mosquitoes would be zombie one rat [TS]

  that's why you can't do that yet so but [TS]

  zombie horses yes [TS]

  so here's the thing though she you're [TS]

  right Scott [TS]

  the the world-building the world she [TS]

  builds is interesting who her world [TS]

  building skills are poor because the way [TS]

  the world gets built in the story is [TS]

  that somebody will like say something to [TS]

  another character and then they'll be [TS]

  four pages of explanation of what this [TS]

  means and how this happened in history [TS]

  and how it all came to be at which point [TS]

  you will then immediately go to the [TS]

  response of the character in the [TS]

  conversation you're like what [TS]

  oh right i was in the middle of a [TS]

  conversation before there were five [TS]

  pages of exposition it's kind of like [TS]

  her editor said show your work [TS]

  yeah yeah and so rather than dropping [TS]

  kind of these these hints and clues [TS]

  about how it's going to work throughout [TS]

  she just sort of lays it all out there [TS]

  the dialogue is is poured the characters [TS]

  you know a couple of the characters are [TS]

  interesting but mostly the characters [TS]

  are cardboard cutouts I think she's got [TS]

  some kind of interesting things to say [TS]

  about the media and blogging as people [TS]

  who work in primarily electronic media [TS]

  she's trying to get some of what she [TS]

  says it's kind of interesting and what [TS]

  she envisions as mass media but most of [TS]

  it is so simplified and sort of silly [TS]

  and it seems it feels to be like if this [TS]

  was a book written by someone who [TS]

  discovered blogging in like 1996 and r [TS]

  is setting out a world where that can [TS]

  you believe that bloggers are actually [TS]

  credible now its creation and I'm like I [TS]

  can't believe it because I'm living in [TS]

  that world right as if that happens so [TS]

  the characters are not great that the [TS]

  dialogue is bad there's huge amounts of [TS]

  exposition so my other problems with it [TS]

  there's a political story the story is [TS]

  the bloggers get to cover up hold [TS]

  presidential campaign tag along on the [TS]

  with one of the candidates with with an [TS]

  improbable e nice candid he is he is [TS]

  they don't believe how night had not how [TS]

  nice goodie is so you know that in the [TS]

  end [TS]

  how could he be nice and good because [TS]

  he's so perfect well the answer is he so [TS]

  perfect cause he's a really bad [TS]

  character and he just as perfect as [TS]

  president but he doesn't have to have [TS]

  any imperfections because his running [TS]

  mate becomes the stock evil general so I [TS]

  I fire off the spoiler horn but honestly [TS]

  the law of the economy of characters is [TS]

  in full force in this book [TS]

  which is there's only one person who [TS]

  could be the bad guy and it's the guy [TS]

  who is completely evil from the [TS]

  beginning Nov and redeeming values and [TS]

  let me alert [TS]

  yes spoiler alert he is the bad girl [TS]

  because of course he's the bad guy he's [TS]

  the only bad guy in the book yeah and [TS]

  he's a nice old mustache twirling he's [TS]

  snidely whiplash of fundamentalist [TS]

  Republican presidential candidate who [TS]

  becomes a vice-presidential candidate [TS]

  and is plotting the death of his running [TS]

  mate sabu haha he can become the [TS]

  president of the United States awful so [TS]

  so I'm um ok Scott you go [TS]

  I i'm trying to think what else I have a [TS]

  long list let me know what else [TS]

  ok so I have a couple of other things [TS]

  she so it annoys me in general I read [TS]

  books you know I started to beginning [TS]

  and read through it and I noticed some [TS]

  authors traditional you know that's just [TS]

  how i do it call me crazy and as I do it [TS]

  I remember even though I have this weird [TS]

  book amnesia as i'm reading a book i [TS]

  generally remember what i'm reading and [TS]

  so I notice if an author is using the [TS]

  same phrase over and over and over again [TS]

  and apparently this author really likes [TS]

  the phrase poke it with a stick because [TS]

  like every other page poke it with a [TS]

  stick and I like with a stick [TS]

  I don't understand why you keep coming [TS]

  back to poke it with a stick it has [TS]

  nothing to do I understand you know [TS]

  there are literary techniques where you [TS]

  repetition it builds it up but poke it [TS]

  with a stick with the wine-dark mine it [TS]

  gets of its got nothing [TS]

  ok with a stick and then I I i work in [TS]

  IT you know specifically insecurity [TS]

  right so there's a there's a character [TS]

  in this book who is given you know these [TS]

  mythical IT abilities right and she's [TS]

  built the system that no one can hack [TS]

  and it's impenetrable and she you know [TS]

  she dies [TS]

  spoiler alert after the fact with [TS]

  leaving leaving no pet leaving no [TS]

  password behind ever know she left a [TS]

  password behind and so the characters [TS]

  like message from the grave exactly the [TS]

  characters like oh well let me just log [TS]

  into the system that no one could [TS]

  possibly hack with a 5 character [TS]

  password that is a common [TS]

  now I'm like what the hell is going on [TS]

  in this world [TS]

  how did you know what my password once [TS]

  thats it was it was infuriating to me [TS]

  because it was just so ridiculous and [TS]

  and the end so the two main characters [TS]

  are brother and sister and they have the [TS]

  creepiest relationship ever [TS]

  I kept waiting for them to have sex so [TS]

  did I it was so we're super creepy it [TS]

  was like Angelina Jolie and her brother [TS]

  kind of yeah this is it was creepy [TS]

  it was it was not it was distracting [TS]

  honestly from the rest of the story and [TS]

  it didn't have to be now but it was [TS]

  because it was just so weird i don't [TS]

  think it ended me to Scott that it was [TS]

  really weird i did so i'm gonna fire off [TS]

  the spoiler warning here [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  the spoiler is it's not going to win a [TS]

  hugo up [TS]

  no I want to talk about the one thing [TS]

  that I appreciate about this book which [TS]

  I was why I have to fire off the spoiler [TS]

  horn what I appreciate about this book [TS]

  is that eighty percent of the way [TS]

  through it the protagonist is killed em [TS]

  and her brother takes over as the [TS]

  viewpoint character for the rest of the [TS]

  book she she gets hit by a dart full of [TS]

  zombie venom or whatever it is and and [TS]

  there's a very interesting scene where [TS]

  she is doing her last message as the as [TS]

  as her brain slowly starts to shut down [TS]

  and become zombified and then he blows [TS]

  her brains out and then the rest of the [TS]

  story and the rest of the plot results [TS]

  itself with the brother who is you know [TS]

  obviously very upset [TS]

  I like the fact that she had the guts to [TS]

  go through almost the whole book but not [TS]

  till the end kill off the main character [TS]

  and have the resolution have to come [TS]

  from her brother who is very upset that [TS]

  that hit the protagonist in the book [TS]

  that he was in has died so he has to [TS]

  become the protagonist because he didn't [TS]

  sign up for this crowd and he just wants [TS]

  to poke things with sticks [TS]

  yeah exactly so that I like that's the [TS]

  one if you gotta say something positive [TS]

  about I like that that was a that was [TS]

  kind of a narrative interesting [TS]

  narrative decision and you know so there [TS]

  but otherwise this was really not very [TS]

  good know it was I mean it would have [TS]

  been bringing an endorsement [TS]

  I cannot believe I actually i look at [TS]

  this and think how did this get [TS]

  nominated for hugo award was there was [TS]

  there a campaign was there astronaut [TS]

  earlier they had the computer the [TS]

  computer genius hacked the voting system [TS]

  while your password and it isn't it will [TS]

  unbreak so secure the shugo voting [TS]

  system could never be my I don't [TS]

  yeah I don't just be I don't understand [TS]

  a world where this book and the Dervish [TS]

  house and even you know a hundred [TS]

  thousand kingdoms and and a cryo burn [TS]

  can be considered in the same group [TS]

  it's just the gap is so why don't [TS]

  understand it [TS]

  zombie demographic they vote I guess [TS]

  zombie I I actually you know Scott I [TS]

  believe the dream of perpetual motion [TS]

  would have been eligible this year right [TS]

  the dream of perpetual motion is [TS]

  about 14,000 times better than feed yeah [TS]

  this is the thing that gets me is is I i [TS]

  actually nominated the dream of [TS]

  perpetual motion for all of its you know [TS]

  interesting challenges it is roughly an [TS]

  infinite amount times better than busy i [TS]

  think so i haven't even read feed but [TS]

  you know you're special motion [TS]

  I don't worry we read it was months ago [TS]

  I still a book still occupies my mind [TS]

  part at times very so so Dan and Glenn [TS]

  what what can I tell you you gotta reach [TS]

  yeah I'm gonna take it on the go [TS]

  oh I'm gonna go right out i'm so glad [TS]

  that I didn't just like go on mute for [TS]

  this and then come back and guys like a [TS]

  totally read happy sucker and the best [TS]

  part is it's the first book in the [TS]

  trilogy so of course after so I'm going [TS]

  to the I should say i'm going to the [TS]

  Reno con the innovation which is the [TS]

  world con this year in in reno nevada [TS]

  lovely summer in reno nothing better [TS]

  of course all the hugo nominees going to [TS]

  be there and I'm actually hoping to go [TS]

  to the hugo ceremony awkward and punch [TS]

  out the authors write and here's the [TS]

  thing is I'm going to see her there [TS]

  shaker that'd be like I gotta walk away [TS]

  Jason if you have nothing nice to say [TS]

  because i haven't read any of your other [TS]

  books but the one book i read then punch [TS]

  them in the face yeah you could say I [TS]

  really like how you killed your [TS]

  protagonist yeah that's right that's [TS]

  right i thought it was very brave of you [TS]

  to kill your protectiveness most of the [TS]

  way through your novel and what do you [TS]

  think about the rest of my book did you [TS]

  like it [TS]

  I wish you I wish you had killed that [TS]

  you're an embarrassment of humor [TS]

  alright i I'm glad you didn't make the [TS]

  brother and sister have sex [TS]

  thank you yeah well it always it always [TS]

  it always pains me to criticize [TS]

  someone's book so harshly because they [TS]

  spent so much time writing it and you [TS]

  can tell she was really invested in it [TS]

  but it's not very good I'm sorry no it's [TS]

  not [TS]

  hey is your nomination sell enough it's [TS]

  not it's not only not in the class to be [TS]

  a hugo nominee it's not in the class to [TS]

  be considered a good but now it's just a [TS]

  bad and frankly it cheapens the hugo [TS]

  award for heavy and not really does i [TS]

  don't and it's a parasite is hundred [TS]

  thousand hundred thousand kids how many [TS]

  kingdoms yr a hundred Lee out hundreds a [TS]

  big planet I think that's a lot of [TS]

  kingdoms it is alright did everybody [TS]

  read [TS]

  NK Jameson's hundred thousand kingdoms i [TS]

  read this book and I read the sequel by [TS]

  the way around half of it [TS]

  this book is a hundred thousand times [TS]

  better than feed so feeds like feels [TS]

  like one Kingdom is that what you're [TS]

  saying and feed it feed is half a [TS]

  Connecticut negative negative zombies [TS]

  three kingdoms these zombie-infested [TS]

  blogger infested king that's right that [TS]

  is very secured i think let's think [TS]

  that's where we're going I have the [TS]

  floor [TS]

  I thought hundred thousand kingdom out i [TS]

  know i see i read it without thinking [TS]

  about the fantasy about Hugo issue and [TS]

  the fantasy sci-fi thing and it's it is [TS]

  fantasy with a 0.001% science fiction [TS]

  thrown in to make it feel a little bit [TS]

  more sci-fi I mean there is a little bit [TS]

  of sci-fi overtone like to like you know [TS]

  a little taste of it in there but it's [TS]

  really fantasy but I thought it was [TS]

  quite a beautiful novel I i think it's [TS]

  an incredibly good read [TS]

  yeah i was drawn into it right away it's [TS]

  very complicated she's fully populated [TS]

  world starting from scratch he has this [TS]

  world of richness of gods and man you're [TS]

  like wait a little bit about what the [TS]

  book is about sure [TS]

  well so the idea is that they live in a [TS]

  universe that this HR the book is about [TS]

  essentially a other bloggers say happy [TS]

  other plugins tell his other side of [TS]

  hell is other planters zombie blogger [TS]

  the book is about a woman a girl who [TS]

  lives in a distant Kingdom from sort of [TS]

  the center of the world is practically a [TS]

  legitimate center of the world which all [TS]

  the power resides and she's called by [TS]

  her grandfather she's a sort of a [TS]

  half-caste she's called but a prominent [TS]

  her own Kingdom in the north [TS]

  she's called to the central Kingdom and [TS]

  her grandfather is it is named here is [TS]

  one of his heirs three potential errors [TS]

  and will be some kind of you know [TS]

  there's imagination there but she finds [TS]

  out very quickly spoiler horn that [TS]

  really she's there to die because [TS]

  someone has to die in order for the [TS]

  accession ascension to happen for the [TS]

  next ruler of the kingdom but here's the [TS]

  thing you know a lot of kingdoms a lot [TS]

  of novels talk about the gods and how [TS]

  important they are whatever and [TS]

  sometimes they're made manifest in this [TS]

  the gods are no real and palpable and [TS]

  they're in the captain the cash will be [TS]

  trapped right because there's other was [TS]

  an epic battle between the three Creator [TS]

  God [TS]

  of sorts of different ages in this [TS]

  universe are three legitimate creator [TS]

  gods and one of them two of them were [TS]

  lovers a third came along a to sort of [TS]

  male entities were lovers and friends [TS]

  and foes at third came along and she [TS]

  provided a balanced and then sort of [TS]

  poison entered one of their hearts and [TS]

  the one who is the white is the light he [TS]

  manages to kill the sort of woman who [TS]

  symbolize are the goddess who symbolizes [TS]

  all of growth in creation and then [TS]

  enslave the one who is the symbol of [TS]

  darkness and so the darkness and all of [TS]

  his children and all of those related [TS]

  are all now subject there under the [TS]

  thumb of this ruling family essentially [TS]

  can order them around and make them do [TS]

  their will and it's there all humiliated [TS]

  and have been for some I think it's [TS]

  thousands of years at that point right [TS]

  it's a couple thousand you and me [TS]

  so it's a beautiful thing it's like the [TS]

  gods are made manifest and yet there and [TS]

  change their suffering but they're need [TS]

  you know if released they would destroy [TS]

  everything and and this woman comes into [TS]

  this environment she's the outsider lets [TS]

  us have the perspective we get to know [TS]

  exposition thank you for the expedition [TS]

  because she's coming in without any [TS]

  knowledge beyond sort of distant stories [TS]

  about what the situation is it's very [TS]

  complicated it's very well realized and [TS]

  I think it's um it's so subtle so many [TS]

  things happen in the novel that I mean [TS]

  some of the plot points are very broad i [TS]

  would argue but some of the actual [TS]

  events the way in which people are [TS]

  acting what they do [TS]

  totally unexpected to me and I kind of [TS]

  love the narrative i love the University [TS]

  immediately went and bought and read the [TS]

  second book and there's a third in a [TS]

  trilogy coming out this October I [TS]

  enjoyed it very much actually I think [TS]

  this is probably my second right after [TS]

  dervish house if drivers house was not [TS]

  nominated I think this would probably be [TS]

  the one I would think should get the [TS]

  hugo it was unlike any fantasy book i [TS]

  think i've ever read very enjoyable well [TS]

  written i like the interaction with the [TS]

  gods [TS]

  I like the the idea that they their City [TS]

  sky that hovers I guess above the the [TS]

  kingdom or something and this whole [TS]

  family lives there and you have to be a [TS]

  part of the family to live there because [TS]

  if you're not you can't get this little [TS]

  symbol on your like implanted on your [TS]

  head that protects you from the [TS]

  the the captured gods that roam the [TS]

  hallways so that they can go just go [TS]

  just kill you because they're angry [TS]

  they're and they're sort of you know [TS]

  like all gods are there sort of [TS]

  capricious and so even though they're [TS]

  under the thumb of you say something [TS]

  like get get me away from here they [TS]

  might send you to the bottom of the [TS]

  ocean [TS]

  you have to be very precise it's like a [TS]

  genie is you have to be very precise [TS]

  with you ask because if you ask me [TS]

  emphasize they are then still within the [TS]

  rule of the law of this sort of balls [TS]

  been laid down by this Elder God but you [TS]

  look funny about it setup we started out [TS]

  you're like well they're so this is sort [TS]

  of the usual thing there's a sort of a [TS]

  white lie to God and there's fallen dark [TS]

  demons and so forth and really quickly [TS]

  like wait a minute this is not anywhere [TS]

  near that simple [TS]

  it's very complicated and you know there [TS]

  is redemption and loss and hatred and [TS]

  whatever its and things happen that you [TS]

  can imagine within the structure the [TS]

  university created suddenly happen she [TS]

  breaks it open cracked open and reforms [TS]

  and it's um I can't believe this is her [TS]

  first novel isn't it unbelievable [TS]

  beautiful just like a she's like a job [TS]

  counselor such a bar because of the [TS]

  second one she I mean this equal thing I [TS]

  think the second one action some ways [TS]

  that even is even better because [TS]

  universe already exists and you're [TS]

  inside of it instead of having to invent [TS]

  the universe and it's not about the [TS]

  ruling class i think my second one [TS]

  stronger stand down on the question [TS]

  first one is first one is that the [TS]

  rulers of this of this planet and or [TS]

  whatever it is that with all the [TS]

  kingdoms and a lot of atoms and the gods [TS]

  that the other like a hundred thousand [TS]

  of them with but it's I i love the God [TS]

  dynamic the fact that the gods there [TS]

  were rules about how the gods they were [TS]

  they were mad right so is so they were [TS]

  going to be capricious they have good [TS]

  reason to be they've been sort of bound [TS]

  and tied down to earth and now they have [TS]

  to follow the you know that created they [TS]

  are their parents created the universe [TS]

  and yet they have to follow the rules [TS]

  the orders of the members of this family [TS]

  and and then there's the white God whose [TS]

  up in heaven and he is you know not [TS]

  doesn't seem to be very nice right i [TS]

  mean he won the war [TS]

  basically that's what he's got going for [TS]

  him and yet and that you know so this [TS]

  character comes on and there are the [TS]

  I i guess on one level you could view it [TS]

  as being very traditional it's outsider [TS]

  she doesn't seem like she's important [TS]

  turns out she's very important she [TS]

  learns all about it that's that same old [TS]

  story except the way it's told it just [TS]

  didn't feel like that to me it felt much [TS]

  more like this was a real voyage of [TS]

  discovery because you know it was it was [TS]

  not just about her it was about the you [TS]

  know how the gods were trying to use her [TS]

  and her family was trying to use her and [TS]

  so even though all the trappings it does [TS]

  have that sort of traditional structure [TS]

  just like it'sit's fantasy but it's not [TS]

  like any fantasy novel i've ever read [TS]

  either [TS]

  it also has its the same structures like [TS]

  Harry Potter it's not for Star Wars yeah [TS]

  but it but it doesn't feel like it [TS]

  because there's so much originality to [TS]

  it that I never felt like oh yeah I see [TS]

  what she's doing here in fact there are [TS]

  a couple twists in it that i was really [TS]

  surprised it's like oh I didn't know [TS]

  that was gonna happen to this character [TS]

  that's like so she'd represent something [TS]

  different than I think there's a lot of [TS]

  Cruelty net which I gotta say is [TS]

  actually a not appealing per se but the [TS]

  fact that you know the worlds that are [TS]

  sort of primitive sort of a fantasy [TS]

  world meets like medieval times the [TS]

  guild the culture of things and it's the [TS]

  fact that it's not sugarcoat it's not [TS]

  people going haha I'm an evil person or [TS]

  whatever it's just it's the casual [TS]

  contempt of the ruling class for the [TS]

  peasants and people are miss malformed [TS]

  and kill the known and the really [TS]

  question he cares because those people [TS]

  don't count and I think there's some [TS]

  incredible like Ferris million students [TS]

  through that well and the other [TS]

  corruption of the family has been ruling [TS]

  has landed they are they are so corrupt [TS]

  and just depraved in so many different [TS]

  ways and that's well well done there [TS]

  they're quite depraved it is it the [TS]

  there but they're not just like single [TS]

  note characters they all have depth and [TS]

  so they have their you can kind of you [TS]

  understand they all have this underlined [TS]

  depravity right but they have other [TS]

  things that make them interesting [TS]

  yes who's your favorite character is my [TS]

  question of those of us who read the [TS]

  book who is the standout character for [TS]

  you can I got one but i'm curious the [TS]

  other files i like the the old dying [TS]

  leader dude all interesting ok but [TS]

  grandfather having really running the [TS]

  kingdom try to run the kingdom at all [TS]

  comes cried the most interesting [TS]

  character is her mother who is never [TS]

  seen because she's already dead and but [TS]

  she said she sort of plan has plotted [TS]

  out the entire thing that's fascinating [TS]

  i was i was going to say the the low-key [TS]

  like character the the eternally young [TS]

  the first time he's the first child of [TS]

  the Gods raising the first [TS]

  yeah and he and that is I think it's a [TS]

  remarkable character because she's able [TS]

  to simulate this you know it's it's like [TS]

  a doctor who is sort of thing in some [TS]

  ways like someone who is simultaneously [TS]

  infinitely old billions of years old and [TS]

  yet is absolutely child-like in his [TS]

  nature right he doesn't just look like a [TS]

  child he thinks like a child because he [TS]

  wants to be a china in the Sun bit but [TS]

  he like wants to communicate with her he [TS]

  wants to comfort himself as if she is [TS]

  his mother and their spoilers there's a [TS]

  mr. won't even say but but and she [TS]

  thinks is this a sexual thing is [TS]

  whatever and then she takes his army is [TS]

  no he is like a child even though he's [TS]

  no 4 billion years old or whatever and [TS]

  that kind of thing like there's so much [TS]

  in so much of what you read this fantasy [TS]

  and science fiction is so much binary [TS]

  stuff black-and-white lack of subtlety [TS]

  and I just thought the book was so [TS]

  beautifully shaded throughout even when [TS]

  there is some you know dopey things [TS]

  instead of the the sister the the [TS]

  sisters an error the I guess half-sister [TS]

  whatever of the our primary character or [TS]

  she is sister i don't even know anyway [TS]

  has some husband whenever she's there's [TS]

  a set of siblings who are heirs to the [TS]

  throne this upstart is brought in as the [TS]

  third legitimate one and the sisters [TS]

  playing pretty broad strokes but she's [TS]

  she's cool and capricious but she sort [TS]

  of karela deville and brother is [TS]

  completely dissipated they're sort of [TS]

  the weakest characters they have to sort [TS]

  of fill a role but even with that said I [TS]

  mean that's such a minor criticism of [TS]

  the overall just gorgeousness of of it [TS]

  it's not overwritten either she writes [TS]

  beautifully without feeling that you're [TS]

  reading something that's supposed to be [TS]

  beautiful prose on the Nightlord the [TS]

  character of all night Laura right i [TS]

  mean that that every security we've [TS]

  skipped right over him but it's such a [TS]

  great character he's in the daytime he's [TS]

  kind of suppressed by the light because [TS]

  the what the Sun the Sun is the [TS]

  representative of the white God who [TS]

  suppressing them but at night he's the [TS]

  black God he's the opposition but he's [TS]

  bound now he comes you know much more [TS]

  powerful at night and has all of these [TS]

  you know [TS]

  he's not he's not the devil right i mean [TS]

  he's he's dangerous and can do horrible [TS]

  things but yet you know he's got his own [TS]

  perspective too and it's just it is very [TS]

  very well done and very evocative and [TS]

  and you know the attraction that the the [TS]

  protagonist feels for him is not just [TS]

  you know it's not like twilight was like [TS]

  all vampire boys i love you you're so [TS]

  shiny darkens it's it's um it's really [TS]

  interesting and really horrible he is [TS]

  yeah it's great you know I think there's [TS]

  that I'm the notion of that like that [TS]

  you know you want to believe you [TS]

  York set up to expect this is additional [TS]

  light and dark and black and white [TS]

  blonde there's like there's a third got [TS]

  it was not following me so captain and [TS]

  they had this great creative thing the [TS]

  universe was created through sort of the [TS]

  fights of the white and the Dark Gods [TS]

  and the creative forces the third god [TS]

  that was woman who comes in a female [TS]

  force she's like the mother of all [TS]

  living things she's the green energy in [TS]

  the world and create the procreative [TS]

  energy and it's just AIT's I don't think [TS]

  I can't say that I've ever read any [TS]

  fantasy or even mythology in which you [TS]

  have these roles occupied in this sort [TS]

  of distinct interesting way it's it's a [TS]

  very it's a great mythology someone [TS]

  could make a religion out of this it [TS]

  straight and I thought it was [TS]

  interesting with the so you know the [TS]

  third God wanted to create order and [TS]

  bring about life and the other two gods [TS]

  were kind of like I don't think we [TS]

  really need the head [TS]

  we're having so much fun doing all this [TS]

  other stuff why should we bother [TS]

  yeah we don't want to create life like [TS]

  new message no I think we should have it [TS]

  i think we should have some life messy [TS]

  and unpredictable [TS]

  it's a part of the universe's mind and [TS]

  i'm going to create life and you're [TS]

  gonna have to cope with that and i think [TS]

  it's interesting that so the white God [TS]

  who is you know kind of distant doesn't [TS]

  make it appear until the the end of the [TS]

  book and but he influences everything [TS]

  and the main character through her [TS]

  journey finds out that this God that [TS]

  she's worshipped perhaps is not as great [TS]

  as you know as pure as a shepherd [TS]

  thought but yet she still has this this [TS]

  programming a loving him and she she [TS]

  finds it very difficult to go against [TS]

  him because of [TS]

  who her whole culture and her the way [TS]

  should have brought up and I thought [TS]

  that kind of attention was was done very [TS]

  well yeah there's no the harry potter [TS]

  ickiness of like why did they have to [TS]

  say random weird words to get things to [TS]

  happen it's like the universe's ordered [TS]

  it makes sense within constraints that [TS]

  are don't have to be explained but don't [TS]

  seem stupid [TS]

  I'm sorry I like Harry Potter but ideal [TS]

  campaign Gladish incantation think it's [TS]

  me so big thumbs up for the hundred [TS]

  thousand can read yeah I'm very [TS]

  surprised I you know I I don't want to [TS]

  be too much better because obviously i [TS]

  did not i read about half of it and i [TS]

  will go back to at some point and finish [TS]

  it but I was not impressed with the [TS]

  first half of this but the next fifty [TS]

  thousand really good so tell us and I'd [TS]

  forgotten that you you you like like [TS]

  Glenn with the Dervish house or a [TS]

  partial yeah I i started it and I don't [TS]

  know maybe i just read better fantasy [TS]

  than you guys earlier in my life I don't [TS]

  know they're just fighting words i tend [TS]

  to read more stuff that you know is was [TS]

  you know more complex as I didn't really [TS]

  find much of the stuff in here [TS]

  surprising or new or different to me it [TS]

  really felt I don't know I felt kinda [TS]

  cold to it i didn't even the part where [TS]

  we sort of hit that and I hit that twist [TS]

  you know where the with the main [TS]

  character and sort of when you figure [TS]

  out her nature of her and i was like [TS]

  okay you know like it didn't really it [TS]

  didn't really shocked or surprised me or [TS]

  make me revisit that character anyways I [TS]

  feel like that's something I've you know [TS]

  that's that seems like a device i've [TS]

  come across before I mean I I don't [TS]

  think it's badly written [TS]

  i think i agree that she's she has a [TS]

  very you know good command and she's [TS]

  setting up this world I just felt very [TS]

  cold to it did not really implement any [TS]

  any sort of response in me and and i [TS]

  found the way I mean I understand the [TS]

  rationale for the romantic aspect of it [TS]

  but it felt melodramatic to me it felt a [TS]

  little overplayed and overwrought and [TS]

  and you know maybe again I i will finish [TS]

  the book at and I will you know perhaps [TS]

  that will change my impression that but [TS]

  just speaking from having read the first [TS]

  half i just i mean i put it down to read [TS]

  because i had to read something I think [TS]

  I still because I got embassy sounds [TS]

  like a really interesting this and then [TS]

  I and then I had not felt a desire to go [TS]

  back to it [TS]

  no you know dan you should check out [TS]

  feed because I think you like that haha [TS]

  wait a second [TS]

  you know what's funny i was quite a bit [TS]

  of fantasy although I probably not [TS]

  sounds like you were deeply right but I [TS]

  you know everyone is younger than a ton [TS]

  of fantasy and I always felt enough to [TS]

  read much less of it as I've got older [TS]

  my turn more of sci-fi but I always felt [TS]

  there was even the best fantasy I felt [TS]

  there was some lot of shallow thinking [TS]

  of the universe was created in order to [TS]

  make put magic in it as opposed to a [TS]

  universe that was created from [TS]

  principals in which people function and [TS]

  the magic sort of the structure of it [TS]

  you know it's like a like this idea for [TS]

  how we structure university know there's [TS]

  a story that should come first I felt [TS]

  here the narrative is very strong and [TS]

  the universe sort of was built around it [TS]

  and and consistently influenced the [TS]

  nature of the story [TS]

  no I was really skeptical going into it [TS]

  I was like really I you know I i don't [TS]

  know i just even when i started reading [TS]

  it and it said that was part of a series [TS]

  and I thought really if there's more of [TS]

  these and it's sort of fantasy and you [TS]

  know and within like three chapters I [TS]

  was I was like all right this is this is [TS]

  good stuff this is I was i buy with body [TS]

  and and I don't came at a similar way [TS]

  because I just have this prejudice [TS]

  against fantasy I guess after reading so [TS]

  much bad fantasy when I just assumed [TS]

  that this would just be bad fantasy but [TS]

  was short so i would read it and I'm [TS]

  glad it because it was really good i [TS]

  recommend book 22 it's a book to is a [TS]

  very different story for smaller story [TS]

  and you get more of the get more stories [TS]

  about people but there's a big you know [TS]

  universe destroying business in it as [TS]

  well as there has to be in these kinds [TS]

  of stories of but it's a it's a quite [TS]

  different quite interesting as well I [TS]

  like the protagonist blind woman is [TS]

  quite lovely [TS]

  alright my ballot by the way and this [TS]

  will come as no surprise given if you [TS]

  listen to this is the Dervish house [TS]

  followed by the hundred thousand [TS]

  kingdoms followed by no award I i feel [TS]

  that i feel that the other three [TS]

  nominees here really really don't [TS]

  deserve an award by auburn would have [TS]

  been next then blackout all clear and of [TS]

  course last would be feed less that I [TS]

  really think duration hundred thousand [TS]

  kingdoms the only ones even worthy of [TS]

  winning [TS]

  yeah those are those I think I've ever [TS]

  read [TS]

  kinda Wilson the other one but i figured [TS]

  there were also a number of fine [TS]

  additional shorter pieces of fiction [TS]

  rekha nominated for the hugo awards this [TS]

  year [TS]

  yeah let's let's mention a couple of [TS]

  standouts really quickly before before [TS]

  we conclude the hugo portion of our [TS]

  program girl and I never read anything [TS]

  by Rachel sports key before I think [TS]

  she's written a fair amount is that [TS]

  right the woman realia the lady who [TS]

  plucked red flowers beneath the Queen's [TS]

  window fantastic that got my vote for [TS]

  best thanks it's a also fantasy [TS]

  yeah and essentially a very complicated [TS]

  and stunning realization of light and [TS]

  you can read it online for free into a [TS]

  lot of two it's like you know it's a [TS]

  world again world with magic and but the [TS]

  passage of enormous scope of time and [TS]

  while woman is a magician or which sort [TS]

  of you know put into a form which you [TS]

  can be called up at will by people with [TS]

  the right incantation and comes in two [TS]

  different cultures past civilizations [TS]

  rise and fall there are you know sort of [TS]

  a new civilization Rises which they want [TS]

  her help to change things and she [TS]

  refuses because they're not women and [TS]

  selling women's magic and it's just a [TS]

  crazy amount of detail in it and [TS]

  marvelous it's like even though it's [TS]

  fantasy it's a story about immortality [TS]

  yeah in the truest sense which is [TS]

  immortality doesn't mean yeah I get to [TS]

  live live my life that I have now [TS]

  forever it means that like in 10,000 [TS]

  years when you can't recognize anything [TS]

  about civilization or anything [TS]

  you're still there [TS]

  you're still there [TS]

  and that's what happens with this [TS]

  character she keeps getting really [TS]

  summoned and you know it's for fastening [TS]

  she's like whatever happened to the hill [TS]

  people like I have no idea what you're [TS]

  talking about anyway we have a question [TS]

  for you and she's you know this is all [TS]

  she all she can do is get these glimpses [TS]

  of these various cultures as she sort of [TS]

  fast-forwards through you know through [TS]

  basically many fantasy novels that are [TS]

  happening and you get a little fraction [TS]

  of it while she's there and then off [TS]

  she's off to the next thing you have any [TS]

  others that you read that you thought [TS]

  were particularly interesting well I i [TS]

  really liked chang who we talked about a [TS]

  different podcast lifecycle of software [TS]

  objects I'd say we talk about that then [TS]

  is uh it's a it's a good story but it [TS]

  feels more like a rumination instead of [TS]

  a short story or a novella rather its [TS]

  law in his past yeah it's very [TS]

  interesting i mean i enjoyed reading it [TS]

  but i think that since one of completion [TS]

  was like oh this was a great story with [TS]

  fully realized characters in it was more [TS]

  like what a bunch of interesting ideas [TS]

  how fascinating a lot of these nominees [TS]

  are online and we'll post a link in our [TS]

  show notes on the incomparable com [TS]

  so you can go and find some of the hugo [TS]

  nominated stories because they they did [TS]

  put a lot of them up as PDFs or just on [TS]

  web pages and so you can get a chance to [TS]

  to read them the ones that stood out for [TS]

  me other than the lady who plucked red [TS]

  flowers beneath the Queen's window which [TS]

  is a really great story historical [TS]

  troika by alastair reynolds which is [TS]

  Scott Scott Malastare Reynolds book on [TS]

  his on his bookshelf or on his desk [TS]

  right there on my desk right now [TS]

  terminal world now so I'd never read [TS]

  anything by alastair reynolds I think [TS]

  that maybe an occasional short story [TS]

  torque is really good it's um it's the [TS]

  strange story about Russians russian [TS]

  cosmonauts in a reform Soviet Union who [TS]

  gets sent to this weird object that has [TS]

  been located in in orbit that is [TS]

  artificial in nature and but it's sold [TS]

  told from the perspective of the only [TS]

  one of them who is still alive and he's [TS]

  in a mental institution and he is in [TS]

  Siberia and he escapes to try and find [TS]

  somebody [TS]

  it's cool it's crazy and it's good it's [TS]

  really good i also like to the [TS]

  one of the novel at nominees plus or [TS]

  minus by james patrick kelly which is [TS]

  about people on a spaceship this crew on [TS]

  a spaceship and there there's a an [TS]

  accident and it's very much like cold [TS]

  equations kind of story there's an [TS]

  accident they have to figure out what [TS]

  they're going to do to survive it while [TS]

  they're on this spaceship so that they [TS]

  don't run out of oxygen and and [TS]

  suffocate that I thought was pretty good [TS]

  and and a story called eight miles by [TS]

  Sean McMullen which is basically about a [TS]

  guy who's a balloonist in i think the [TS]

  19th century and he i'm interested he's [TS]

  commissioned to take the balloon eight [TS]

  miles up which is above the [TS]

  breathability area for people and and [TS]

  the reason is that there's this creature [TS]

  who looks like a human being but was [TS]

  found at high elevation and the the guy [TS]

  who found who think has a theory that if [TS]

  they take her up to eight miles high [TS]

  she will be able to communicate because [TS]

  she will be no longer be drunken by the [TS]

  thick atmosphere of Earth surface and [TS]

  it's it and it's really cool it's a it's [TS]

  a great idea and and it is it you know [TS]

  it's very retro it's very you know what [TS]

  what what would it be like if there were [TS]

  people who lived on Mars where the air [TS]

  is thinner than it is on earth and the [TS]

  short stories like there's one Kerry Von [TS]

  have a shirt circled amaryllis which is [TS]

  kind of interesting about people on a [TS]

  ship in the future with their resource [TS]

  constraints and they want to have a baby [TS]

  and and a story by Peter what's called [TS]

  the things which i really like to which [TS]

  is the story of the movie the thing [TS]

  where there's there in Antarctica and [TS]

  there's this alien thing and it takes [TS]

  over people's bodies and stuff like that [TS]

  that you very well-known movie this is a [TS]

  short story about that same thing [TS]

  basically from the perspective of the [TS]

  alien and it's really quite good so [TS]

  frozen like there's a story a Grendel [TS]

  you know which is payable tall candles [TS]

  and classic high school reading material [TS]

  African glasses so the bonus that we [TS]

  didn't get to hear is that we want to [TS]

  talk about China Mieville book embassy [TS]

  town which there are some very strong [TS]

  opinions on this among our panel I know [TS]

  but we're gonna have to save it for a [TS]

  future podcast dear listener if you some [TS]

  of us enjoyed embassy town and think you [TS]

  should read it and then two and then [TS]

  tune in to our podcast where we talk [TS]

  about it [TS]

  dan moore and however suggest that you [TS]

  don't you suggest you buy a copy and [TS]

  burn it [TS]

  I would never ok my parents are [TS]

  librarians I would never ever get [TS]

  burning books acceptance return a [TS]

  library [TS]

  yes yes donated anyway it uh until next [TS]

  time when we will discuss wide and more [TS]

  in heitz embassy town and all other [TS]

  things I feel so bad now [TS]

  no I feel bad that you hated because [TS]

  it's really long [TS]

  it's not so much long as its dense he's [TS]

  gonna come and beat up and it's not so [TS]

  long as usual kind of meatballs a [TS]

  scary-looking he's a brutally as well [TS]

  you could take you out your scrawny then [TS]

  it's fun being in a book club but now we [TS]

  have to go so until next time [TS]

  dear listeners I i'm jason l and i would [TS]

  like to bid farewell for now and [TS]

  Fleischmann thank you for being here [TS]

  Glenn thank you so much Dan Morgan thank [TS]

  you [TS]

  thanks Jason and Scott McNulty thank you [TS]

  Jason you have won the hugo of my heart [TS]

  and and Scott you can't see it but i'm [TS]

  giving you a big hug right home [TS]

  I feel touched right the hug awards huh [TS]

  goes [TS]

  yes and on that note farewell everybody [TS]

  and hope you read some of these books [TS]

  and like them not feed but don't really [TS]

  think that just turned to it until next [TS]

  time thanks for listening to part [TS]

  [Music] [TS]