The Incomparable

56: Let Me in the Frickin` TARDIS!


  the incomparable podcast number 56 [TS]

  September 2011 [TS]

  we're back on the uncomfortable podcast [TS]

  I'm Jason L this is one of those flash [TS]

  podcasts by flash I mean we don't edit [TS]

  it and we just record a skype [TS]

  conversation and it saves me a lot of [TS]

  work haha [TS]

  anyway we're here to talk about the two [TS]

  most recent episodes of the BBC's Doctor [TS]

  Who season 6 part to the episodes in [TS]

  question are night terrors and the girl [TS]

  who waited which of air over the last [TS]

  two weeks [TS]

  joining me today to discuss these two [TS]

  episodes at least for now joining me are [TS]

  ten fleischmann hi Glenn [TS]

  I've been recording this for 36 years [TS]

  six months and three days and finally [TS]

  you calling me you took the slower path [TS]

  i see huh [TS]

  don't ever press the red water ball I'm [TS]

  telling you it's a joe haldeman path [TS]

  scoffing multi is also here hi Scott let [TS]

  me take off my gloves so i can see you [TS]

  all [TS]

  mm and John siracusa is also present i'm [TS]

  in the correct time screen as always [TS]

  that now [TS]

  actually we joke about this but two [TS]

  members of our panel did press via the [TS]

  red waterfall and the right it's the red [TS]

  with the green anchor and the redwater [TS]

  floor right at this trailer nautically [TS]

  themed as all hospitals are apparently [TS]

  yes so you know who universe so Dan [TS]

  Morgan and serenity Caldwell press the [TS]

  red waterfall and lost to us an [TS]

  alternate time stream at least for now [TS]

  they're out of sync with us in terms of [TS]

  time which is our way of saying they're [TS]

  late so I'm two episodes interesting [TS]

  standalone episodes which is kind of [TS]

  nice to see I think after so many r kv [TS]

  episodes this season [TS]

  who would like to talk about last week's [TS]

  episode night terrors in which a young [TS]

  child that calls for the doctor because [TS]

  he's got monsters in his room and his [TS]

  his calls are answered by little I [TS]

  thought it was a classic you know quirky [TS]

  doctor you know everything's gonna turn [TS]

  out all right in the end no one's going [TS]

  to die sort of episode which is how [TS]

  spoiler it did it had that had that air [TS]

  of because the episodes in which things [TS]

  go really awry and the doctor has to set [TS]

  things [TS]

  and if he does not people people have [TS]

  already died terrible things happen and [TS]

  so forth and allow those tend to be the [TS]

  mythology episodes and you have these [TS]

  kind of like quirky funny ones in which [TS]

  lost terrifying things happen but you [TS]

  sort of it's more like a fairy tale and [TS]

  that's what the category this fit in and [TS]

  I don't know I thought I thought it was [TS]

  fun it was a little more like an older [TS]

  doctor who didn't have the feeling of [TS]

  the newer episodes much and it was a [TS]

  little more on you know horror oriented [TS]

  which I i think the new series is much [TS]

  more about than the old series were it's [TS]

  sort of a trademark but I never got the [TS]

  full creepy like giant dolls walking [TS]

  around and so forth never really got up [TS]

  my spine and I thought the central [TS]

  mystery was a little fan like often [TS]

  there's multiple stories running a good [TS]

  show of any kind any kind of drama or [TS]

  comedy is UAB and sometimes CND [TS]

  bloodlines and I felt there was sort of [TS]

  like an a-line here and one central [TS]

  mystery once that was sort of that it [TS]

  was like okay and we put all the pieces [TS]

  in place but as the parents i did have [TS]

  you always get that knowing in your soul [TS]

  when you see a child you know in harm's [TS]

  way and you always delighted to see [TS]

  parents step up to the plate and do the [TS]

  thing that's right for the children [TS]

  because they have such love for their [TS]

  little boy or girl so that's what I [TS]

  thought about it the dad right in the [TS]

  end it's the dad's job to to say but of [TS]

  course i love you and I would never want [TS]

  you to go away and and he he's the one [TS]

  who has to make that statement dr. can't [TS]

  save the little boy in the end yeah I [TS]

  wasn't prepared for exactly that moment [TS]

  I was like oh that is honorably sweet [TS]

  even rest the episode West investor live [TS]

  up to the potential was kind of fun with [TS]

  that one moment is like oh that's been [TS]

  running down and grabbing his child is [TS]

  just you know that's the way you know if [TS]

  you remember if we can borrow if we go [TS]

  back to the christopher eccleston dr. we [TS]

  that's direct echo of the doctor dances [TS]

  episode the two-parter which we need [TS]

  Captain Jack and their backhand World [TS]

  War two it all these people are turning [TS]

  into this our gas bearings things yeah [TS]

  at the end it's the young woman who has [TS]

  a child out of wedlock embraces her to [TS]

  transform child and says yes i am your [TS]

  money and that's that act of love is the [TS]

  transformative act they're kind of SAP's [TS]

  that doctor who in some way and I kind [TS]

  of like that sort of thing but the [TS]

  doctor dances was much better episode so [TS]

  I think it has i've truly great yes [TS]

  actors are like five things going on [TS]

  actually resolved and use them all in [TS]

  interesting ways they were not been [TS]

  exactly this was kind of a one-note look [TS]

  creepy dolls oh the boys and actually an [TS]

  alien [TS]

  everybody loves you get it was more like [TS]

  the boys an alien is he [TS]

  I guess you mean he doesn't do anything [TS]

  he doesn't glow or anything he's just a [TS]

  boy they say well he's an alien but he's [TS]

  a boy now but he was an alien but he's [TS]

  not now it's always a teenager way to [TS]

  those teenagers up they spent all the [TS]

  budget on the dolls so apparently but [TS]

  yeah these are this and the last week's [TS]

  episode in this week's episode are the I [TS]

  think we blew too much money early in [TS]

  this already this season and we're [TS]

  saving up for stuff later [TS]

  did did it seem to you guys that the [TS]

  well first off they're the dolls right [TS]

  which were which were weird and and and [TS]

  I didn't think we're particularly scary [TS]

  especially since they don't really do [TS]

  anything except follow you around and [TS]

  occasionally turn you into a doll i'm [TS]

  gonna knock over pretty easy [TS]

  yeah it did I I didn't feel a lot of of [TS]

  Jeopardy from them and then and then it [TS]

  didn't also seem to you that there was a [TS]

  whole lot put into the idea that you [TS]

  were going to be shocked when you [TS]

  discovered that Rory and Amy were inside [TS]

  a dollhouse in his closet when I just [TS]

  sort of never thought that was a [TS]

  surprise and I thought them running [TS]

  around in the dollhouse was kind of [TS]

  boring [TS]

  yep horrifying surprise don't know where [TS]

  Nadal haha no way i'm sure in Las the [TS]

  dollhouse you're being chased by giant [TS]

  dolls and you showed us adult house in [TS]

  the closet [TS]

  I couldn't put 22 yeah and yet it seems [TS]

  sort of like the episode wants it to be [TS]

  a big revelation and they know it's just [TS]

  a it's dolls in a dollhouse and that's [TS]

  that's all you got is I mean because i [TS]

  like that i like the tone I how it's [TS]

  dark and it's supposed to be scary and [TS]

  all that but but I kept thinking to [TS]

  myself is this it is this it is this [TS]

  heat is there another level here and [TS]

  other than the stuff with you know with [TS]

  a father which even that seems sort of [TS]

  contrived like well we have a [TS]

  conversation once when I was worried we [TS]

  were going to have to send him away and [TS]

  that is the motivation for this whole [TS]

  thing is just [TS]

  it you know it it felt on the surface [TS]

  like there was a really great episode [TS]

  here and then I just kept thinking [TS]

  really thats it thats that's as deep as [TS]

  it's gonna go [TS]

  yeah you wanted the thing like that you [TS]

  know i can't wait for Aslan to come out [TS]

  of the closet myself but you keep [TS]

  waiting for also something else to come [TS]

  up like you know it's like okay there's [TS]

  some other this is part of a bigger [TS]

  thing or I mean if you look at like the [TS]

  sort of silly episode the data 10 [TS]

  episode with the but puffin fresh kids [TS]

  was that one called the the little um [TS]

  often fresh kids you know that way [TS]

  without water the avoirdupois the there [TS]

  are people's fat and they add a adipose [TS]

  thank you like even that was a silly [TS]

  episode you have like people decomposing [TS]

  into little creatures and and weird [TS]

  stuff and then running up and down [TS]

  corridors and whatever that was you know [TS]

  same period of time lot more scenery and [TS]

  it's not similar theme I know but we [TS]

  sort of similar like silly was sort of [TS]

  ridiculous episode but you had medicine [TS]

  it you had some mythology brought in [TS]

  because Don and the doctor find each [TS]

  other again that's incidental but it's [TS]

  in there was such a rich thing I had [TS]

  trouble [TS]

  episode over at like was this really a [TS]

  full-length episode this felt like a [TS]

  14-page comic book of Doctor Who so [TS]

  enjoyable but you know it's like this is [TS]

  like a 15-minute cereal thing it's not [TS]

  like a you know full 40 plus minute [TS]

  entry in the in the Canon alright John [TS]

  what about you know what [TS]

  when I saw your email go out of what [TS]

  we're going to be talking about tonight [TS]

  I panting like that i'm missing app but [TS]

  you talking about this night terrorist [TS]

  thing that the episode was so [TS]

  forgettable I'd literally forgotten that [TS]

  I'd seen it was that I literally the [TS]

  page and I said oh yeah I did right [TS]

  yeah I thought that would be like jason [TS]

  said it was shot really well and I like [TS]

  they set up this atmosphere and you know [TS]

  they were really trying to be creepy but [TS]

  it just was not it was not create an [TS]

  apostle big thing of it that halloween [TS]

  quality full head masks are a doctor who [TS]

  like forehead makeup is the star trek I [TS]

  I don't then they just got they loved [TS]

  the big head big heads now that's the [TS]

  way to do the makeup just take take some [TS]

  giant mask over the head of an actor [TS]

  have walk slowly and that the head mask [TS]

  and look like very adamant had was not [TS]

  creepy was not scary legs [TS]

  it's down yeah you know I didn't really [TS]

  watch the episode that's not last week [TS]

  and I watched the the new episode twice [TS]

  today in fact i watch the second time [TS]

  because i wanted to see that wanted to [TS]

  get more of the subtlety of it and i'll [TS]

  watch it again and that lassoed the [TS]

  eagerly-awaited election watch that [TS]

  again I'll probably that again and again [TS]

  over the years but this one I don't [TS]

  think I will ever ever flip again so all [TS]

  all of that agreed to buy me and yet i [TS]

  will i will now bring in an opposing [TS]

  viewpoint which is that my my freshly [TS]

  turned seven-year-old son watch this [TS]

  episode with us and was absolutely [TS]

  terrified oh wow ok so there's little [TS]

  children so you know part of and as [TS]

  adults we look at this and we say well [TS]

  you know it really was my favorite part [TS]

  of what doctor who is made for is not [TS]

  for us right it is to scare little [TS]

  children that that's actually one of the [TS]

  things that supposed to do and i have to [TS]

  say it did that it was it was scary my [TS]

  daughter thought it was scary my son [TS]

  thought it was terrifying and basically [TS]

  said if the is going to be that scary [TS]

  anymore i don't want to watch Doctor Who [TS]

  anymore because it was too scary for me [TS]

  and I'm afraid of the dolls so lots of [TS]

  things together although i think i think [TS]

  the music actually scared more than [TS]

  anything else because he's very [TS]

  sensitive to sort of music cues that are [TS]

  scary things but whatever it it it did [TS]

  the job there so i will point out [TS]

  Jason's son and my older son are born [TS]

  exactly the same day and year and my son [TS]

  we had our time to watch winnie-the-pooh [TS]

  a couple years ago so if he watched this [TS]

  episode he would never sleep again so he [TS]

  is not doctor who is like I was 42 I [TS]

  might be able to get them to watch it [TS]

  good little anxiety about that kind of [TS]

  thing will have a lot of episodes backed [TS]

  up by that expect collects the 4000 [TS]

  episodes and his neural implant then all [TS]

  at once and five seconds we need who is [TS]

  terrifying [TS]

  it's true those bees got dammit yeah it [TS]

  and it's you know again the atmosphere [TS]

  don't beat this episode to death like we [TS]

  did with the pirates but the atmosphere [TS]

  that let's take it out the analogy [TS]

  atmosphere was good while the alley is [TS]

  where there's the big a pile of garbage [TS]

  cans that the old lady gets sucked [TS]

  into garbage bags matter how much and I [TS]

  got that you were terrified it's like [TS]

  that the garbage bag sucker in and then [TS]

  she got that it didn't really make a lot [TS]

  of sense [TS]

  no no and married british shows always [TS]

  have that old lady is that the rule [TS]

  yeah absolutely yes well there's a lot [TS]

  of actor older actors who need work and [TS]

  the government make sure that their [TS]

  employees trip that's called socialism [TS]

  socialism miss that's the Miss Marple [TS]

  Little Miss Marple right i don't i just [TS]

  isn't making sense again it was it was [TS]

  all the all the things you expect to see [TS]

  in as a creepy story and and it's meant [TS]

  to be scary music scary and something [TS]

  happens except it was kind of randomly [TS]

  placed didn't and you know it didn't [TS]

  hold together to me and and we don't [TS]

  forget the great line there is one great [TS]

  line of this and say Jason you know what [TS]

  it is we're dead again [TS]

  no they're worried feeling like they're [TS]

  actually both dead and all that you know [TS]

  there are some there are some those were [TS]

  nice moments but yeah I didn't do it for [TS]

  me at all [TS]

  it was it was a real i don't think was [TS]

  bad like I think the pirate episode was [TS]

  bad but I pirate episode gets more of [TS]

  our hate because the pirate episode had [TS]

  like a bigger budget and they have [TS]

  pirates what you can do something with [TS]

  and they have with sadness was just like [TS]

  it pirates and an alien spaceship this [TS]

  had the apartment building [TS]

  so this is at least didn't squander its [TS]

  potential really had none and i think [TS]

  that the the doctor and the the father [TS]

  had nice moments i was enjoying a doctor [TS]

  is trying to explain to people who do [TS]

  not know who he is what he is and what [TS]

  he does i was find that fascinating and [TS]

  the guise of being from like the [TS]

  government it right exactly and he's [TS]

  like where's your little finger forces i [TS]

  like to think it's like look into my [TS]

  eyes and you're like that's so that's [TS]

  actually not exactly call back but [TS]

  that's a hitchhiker's guide moment [TS]

  there's a bit where for drip prefect [TS]

  looks at the barman before the earth is [TS]

  blown up and it looks a bit of angst [TS]

  about being away from home and it says [TS]

  like this us every creature universe and [TS]

  it's a subliminal signal and times of [TS]

  stress that indicates precisely how far [TS]

  they were far away from other born but [TS]

  the earth you can never be very far away [TS]

  but he was from beetlejuice [TS]

  so he looked at the bar minus the barman [TS]

  felt every inch of the [TS]

  over many light-years he was and [TS]

  believed him and I thought it was that [TS]

  same look into my eyes [TS]

  these eyes have seen many things alright [TS]

  alright i guess we should speak no more [TS]

  about this episode and I have one more [TS]

  thing we have to do one more complaint [TS]

  hold excellent up but I don't like it [TS]

  thick [TS]

  remember when we were stuck on that [TS]

  right we're at the end of every episode [TS]

  that the doctor had to look at the [TS]

  screen with the program not pregnant ya [TS]

  missed me now the new thing is at the [TS]

  end of every episode yes look at the [TS]

  screen and see is little death date card [TS]

  from from the archives at the screen [TS]

  which miraculously the camera can see [TS]

  the doctor can see we can see but the [TS]

  people standing two feet to his left [TS]

  cannot see for some reason what are you [TS]

  looking at honest with his ring shield [TS]

  on it it's literally distortion so so [TS]

  here's a funny thing about that episode [TS]

  is it was shot as part of the first [TS]

  block of the series along with the neil [TS]

  gaiman episode and then they delayed it [TS]

  i think because they're they're [TS]

  basically both episodes where people run [TS]

  around dark quarters [TS]

  I mean really that and and I i suspect [TS]

  maybe that scene was really written to [TS]

  have it be the Amy pregnant pregnant and [TS]

  then they had to change it in order to [TS]

  change people like basically just happy [TS]

  I episode the doctor seeing a screen [TS]

  that no one else can see even though [TS]

  they're standing right next to what's on [TS]

  the screen can change it also explains [TS]

  why Amy and Rory don't spend any time [TS]

  dwelling on the fact that they just [TS]

  discovered all these things about their [TS]

  daughter who they grew up with now and [TS]

  yes now river so that's sort of like we [TS]

  don't think about that so so which I [TS]

  like from a standalone perspective and I [TS]

  don't like in a sense that it did feel [TS]

  awfully charring because if if we're [TS]

  gonna spend every episode dwelling on [TS]

  oh wow he's gonna die but we can't tell [TS]

  him why would we spend any time dwelling [TS]

  on the fact that you know our little [TS]

  baby that we just had is never going to [TS]

  grow up with us as their parents because [TS]

  of time-traveling Jana it just seems [TS]

  really weird that they would do that [TS]

  with the one thing and not the other [TS]

  all right now we have used our art [TS]

  artists to move across time streams or [TS]

  something like that we've gone for the [TS]

  green anchor to the red waterfall so now [TS]

  i want to ask the members of our red [TS]

  waterfall cult contention damn and ran [TS]

  who don't know what we think here in the [TS]

  green anchor double-blind about about [TS]

  the night terrors episode what they [TS]

  thought of of night terrors before we [TS]

  move on and we will tell them if their [TS]

  opinion is correct [TS]

  huh or we dad ran what did you think of [TS]

  of night terrorist Marcus's episode you [TS]

  know go ahead simultaneously be only one [TS]

  another [TS]

  no I i actually I decently liked the [TS]

  episode and I thought it was just creepy [TS]

  enough and it was kind of fun standalone [TS]

  I my only question was i was unsure [TS]

  about the how the alien kids fan it [TS]

  because it was all in his mind right or [TS]

  something along those lines where he was [TS]

  he was turning these things into big [TS]

  bads and I'm like well if he's if he's [TS]

  turning you know if he's making all this [TS]

  why can't he shut it off and what did [TS]

  the dr really do that's the magic you [TS]

  know was it really just the parents had [TS]

  to say oh yes we love you we're not [TS]

  going to leave you and then all of them [TS]

  go away like i was very confused by that [TS]

  but that that problem with it aside I [TS]

  thought it was actually quite fun and [TS]

  quite spooky i really liked it [TS]

  yeah i guess i'm in the minority here I [TS]

  thought that there were something [TS]

  effectively atmospheric about a lot of [TS]

  it i like to be the interior of the [TS]

  house and I liked that it was a puzzle [TS]

  that i didn't i didn't entirely figure [TS]

  out really as it was going on I mean I [TS]

  started to get clues i started to make [TS]

  sort of assumptions based on what i [TS]

  thought was going on and yet some of it [TS]

  comes out as a bit of a you know a [TS]

  backfill in terms of how is this alien [TS]

  kid or whatever and and that was the [TS]

  part of it i did not like as much but [TS]

  the atmosphere part in the beginning [TS]

  where you're trying to figure out what's [TS]

  going on i love the doctors back and [TS]

  forth about trying to decide whether or [TS]

  not to open the cupboard where he's [TS]

  kinda arguing [TS]

  going forward over the governor what we [TS]

  have to open the cover you know like I [TS]

  thought the the report there between him [TS]

  and the father was really was really [TS]

  funny anomaly [TS]

  were you surprised or shocked about the [TS]

  fact that they were in a dollhouse [TS]

  namely that not now that's not that I [TS]

  you know I picked up on that one pretty [TS]

  pretty quickly [TS]

  ok but I was ok but I mean you know why [TS]

  you know that was still up in the air [TS]

  like I like the kid I thought he was he [TS]

  was sufficiently cute kid was yeah [TS]

  really creepy and sufficiently cute yeah [TS]

  you know I i love the setting to I just [TS]

  enjoy them walking around the town that [TS]

  council walks at night trying to figure [TS]

  out you know what the hell is going on i [TS]

  don't know i mean it wasn't you no it [TS]

  certainly was not the the best episode [TS]

  of Doctor Who but I thought that stacked [TS]

  up against a lot of the stuff again from [TS]

  the first half of the season [TS]

  pirates I thought to beat the pants off [TS]

  pirates and you know a lot of the the [TS]

  confusing back and forth with some of [TS]

  the other episodes in there I thought it [TS]

  was better than that my real really do [TS]

  feel like the the second half of the [TS]

  season has been superior to the first [TS]

  but I can see why knowing the [TS]

  probabilities of many of my fellow seems [TS]

  panel members why they wouldn't like it [TS]

  going to unsubscribe even Jason didn't [TS]

  like it's like Jason's very critical [TS]

  value it I i think the red I think the [TS]

  Red waterfall got a totally different [TS]

  episode the green acre it has to do with [TS]

  different times if we were focusing more [TS]

  on personality and atmosphere than [TS]

  actual mid-wilshire lot since you guys [TS]

  didn't hear what we said sophisticated [TS]

  over on the green anchor side i think i [TS]

  think there was some agreement that [TS]

  there was some atmosphere the problem [TS]

  was that that any analysis of what was [TS]

  going on beyond the atmosphere led to [TS]

  kind of a really what knows sometimes I [TS]

  feel like you just shouldn't analyze [TS]

  doctor who and just enjoy it as I was [TS]

  like watching other is let's straighten [TS]

  up this is what I was scary [TS]

  no I was scary it was a little bit scary [TS]

  here my seven-year-old son but I I [TS]

  wasn't applying a lot of deep analysis [TS]

  to it I was like really so the lady has [TS]

  been eaten by trash bags and the kids an [TS]

  alien but we never see him really do [TS]

  anything alien butt [TS]

  yeah he's an alien well that explains [TS]

  that he's going to meld into society [TS]

  right he's not school 30 alien like he [TS]

  does seem like there's another variety [TS]

  of other show like that remember feel [TS]

  like there's a star trek episode or [TS]

  something because i can get everybody [TS]

  like who all there is all reality around [TS]

  in there [TS]

  yes isn't it yeah takes over Jonathan [TS]

  trucks life because he's a father and he [TS]

  stuck in some say I thought he was going [TS]

  for Charlie and I was imagining angel [TS]

  and the next generation know the next [TS]

  generation to me where you know because [TS]

  there is wakes up and thinks it's a [TS]

  right experience got the kids like a [TS]

  space for I don't know I just I i SAT [TS]

  there thinking yeah they're dolls [TS]

  they're not that creepy and they don't [TS]

  they're not threatening because they [TS]

  turn you into dolls but they turning me [TS]

  into a doll and so you know that it's [TS]

  amy dollars creates not permanent and [TS]

  there's no so so it did it just didn't [TS]

  work at all what level you doing playing [TS]

  with dolls that's the others request wow [TS]

  that's not but that leaves early edition [TS]

  sure about the future [TS]

  come on in the future because of the [TS]

  council flat yeah nobody made that for [TS]

  the future really do it if ya really [TS]

  really early and garbage BBC red [TS]

  waterfall has a better budget than BBC [TS]

  greena just much all there is to it was [TS]

  just enjoying a the delay water quality [TS]

  at the moment he visited the five [TS]

  minutes of the episode that it felt like [TS]

  to us to a full 40 minutes yeah that's [TS]

  why I just ran around and in the [TS]

  dollhouse and the house and then we can [TS]

  all travel together they would run away [TS]

  again unlike unlike some of the earlier [TS]

  episodes and our point fingers at [TS]

  pirates again there's no point in this [TS]

  episode I felt like bored LOL understand [TS]

  Danny other ones me was like yeah let me [TS]

  just check twitter while I'm watching [TS]

  this whatever it was really young I felt [TS]

  kind of wrap the Pirates was not as good [TS]

  as that's a low point for media in this [TS]

  is that Steven Moffat I think I enjoyed [TS]

  pirates more [TS]

  oh hang on oh gosh I don't think iris [TS]

  was a better episode but i think i think [TS]

  i enjoyed it more mostly because unlike [TS]

  a look there a pirate ship Umi Skyward [TS]

  Sword don't get me wrong I just you know [TS]

  I just like both of strongly I'm just [TS]

  saying out if I had to choose which one [TS]

  you made me watch one of them again [TS]

  which one would i choose also if one of [TS]

  the episodes was outside of the targets [TS]

  while you're inside you will find any i [TS]

  would agree the Doctor Who pirates was [TS]

  better than the walter matthau pirates i [TS]

  will agree with that but not better than [TS]

  Gilbert and Sullivan pirates what [TS]

  happened not a 979 john templayer or [TS]

  pilates pilates is better than that [TS]

  pirates Iraqis karate skills along now [TS]

  that's a great workout by the way it [TS]

  really works your are okay and on that [TS]

  note I'm going to press the red button [TS]

  at the bottom because who wouldn't press [TS]

  the red button and we're going to switch [TS]

  back out of this timestream and had to [TS]

  move over to be other let's move on to [TS]

  the most recent episode of Doctor Who [TS]

  which is the girl who waited is what you [TS]

  think [TS]

  can I get my premise complaining out of [TS]

  the way first so you can talk about the [TS]

  meat of the episode without it I usually [TS]

  if I have lots of negative things to say [TS]

  i like to save you for last to see if I [TS]

  can guess the negative things are going [TS]

  okay Fargo but i don't but i don't have [TS]

  a lot of negative things about this [TS]

  episode so I would like you to get it [TS]

  all out now this is mostly just promise [TS]

  whining so yeah and possibly can i [TS]

  usually don't BB scholarly wisdom of [TS]

  Glenn will educate me about what I was [TS]

  missing this episode i didn't watch it i [TS]

  did watch it twice [TS]

  exactly so maybe really was as dumb as I [TS]

  thought maybe i just missed something [TS]

  entirely sorry on scholarly to be asking [TS]

  for your first business [TS]

  alright so there's a disease on this [TS]

  planet right this trend seven thing i'd [TS]

  only affects people with two hearts I [TS]

  and if the doctor gets it he'll die any [TS]

  can regenerate right because that [TS]

  increases jeopardy that are well and [TS]

  also because they this is the doctor [TS]

  light episode many of them to stay on [TS]

  the target set so they could shoot him [TS]

  in a day and then have him go to the [TS]

  right that's also that bothers me a [TS]

  little bit of that I want to see that [TS]

  behind the same things right so the two [TS]

  rooms thing the the explanation they [TS]

  eventually come to the two rooms is that [TS]

  you've got the disease speed they got 24 [TS]

  hours to live so what you do you take [TS]

  the people with the disease you put them [TS]

  into different [TS]

  science time stream so that 24 hours for [TS]

  the people where they came from is like [TS]

  their lifetime and then you can see each [TS]

  other through the hourglass thing so you [TS]

  can say our poor daughter she had the [TS]

  disease but you to the time screaming [TS]

  now we can look at her and we can watch [TS]

  her live her entire life and we'll have [TS]

  a full and healthy life so you know our [TS]

  daughter doesn't die in 24 hours instead [TS]

  she has a full life now if you take [TS]

  someone who has the disease is going to [TS]

  kill them for hours and you put them in [TS]

  a different time stream doesn't don't [TS]

  they still die in 24 hours to the germs [TS]

  stick to the rules of the old-time [TS]

  string the drumset oh my god wall you [TS]

  know we're weird germs from the old-time [TS]

  scream I know you're in a new time [TS]

  screen where you're going to live for a [TS]

  lifetime but we're going to honor the [TS]

  rules of the old-time makes no freaking [TS]

  cent worth the only missing some [TS]

  woodworking the opposite way that what [TS]

  you do is you have that doesn't make any [TS]

  sense no it wasn't i can't figure it out [TS]

  I I there's a central conceit that was [TS]

  missing because there was is the doctor [TS]

  says oh she hadn't eaten for a week [TS]

  because she wasn't hungry he said [TS]

  overtime is compressed ready Caldwell [TS]

  has joined us by the way she has come [TS]

  back from the the the waterfall we were [TS]

  you gonna say [TS]

  ok so from what I could tell the red [TS]

  waterfall multiple time streams are not [TS]

  actually you know 99 years worth of time [TS]

  stream it is 24 hours it's just the [TS]

  perception of how time passes is [TS]

  lengthened at least what I like where it [TS]

  was just it's it's an outward effect [TS]

  that makes the body i assume the disease [TS]

  is something that makes the body age and [TS]

  then it's just a 24-hour sort of [TS]

  perception filter magnitude in there for [TS]

  a week ago I know but I'm saying maybe [TS]

  lose their 40 years and her Bob the ages [TS]

  and get the wrinkly wouldn't the disease [TS]

  progressing to kill them in 24 hours [TS]

  yeah well I was my initial sort of [TS]

  thought was oh the disease just makes [TS]

  the manager rapidly but Amy doesn't have [TS]

  the disease so I don't know I'm just [TS]

  going with weird time perception filter [TS]

  that also makes them age but it's not [TS]

  actually time again I don't harp on the [TS]

  purpose because they just want to set up [TS]

  a situation that will let them have the [TS]

  actual story right [TS]

  yes it but they like I complain when [TS]

  they don't do a good job explaining [TS]

  their their setup and they just it was [TS]

  just reinforces the final thing was [TS]

  those dr. things that kill you like [TS]

  worst dr. robot [TS]

  whatever I mean it don't they adjust [TS]

  dosages for infants and stuff they can [TS]

  tell this is a different species all [TS]

  well medicated maybe that's not be [TS]

  involved there are many things wrong [TS]

  with those robots national someone I i [TS]

  assume that the that the planet is I [TS]

  mean they say in the beginning of the [TS]

  planets quarantine so in theory that [TS]

  there wouldn't be any kind of alien life [TS]

  landing on it so i imagine that those [TS]

  robots were programmed basically as soon [TS]

  as the thing was quarantined and you [TS]

  know only only I know I'm [TS]

  over-explaining something they didn't [TS]

  explain properly and i'm estimating but [TS]

  it's still available on the episode but [TS]

  I still confused as to why anyone who is [TS]

  designing a robot would say okay let's [TS]

  give it some sensors but will only put [TS]

  them in their hands [TS]

  budget cuts it's not a doctor can have [TS]

  something to explain they did a lot of [TS]

  quick explanations of things that are [TS]

  sick [TS]

  that's just like I've got two sentences [TS]

  to explain this major plot points we can [TS]

  move on to the real story and there were [TS]

  several of those including why this [TS]

  thing has no faith why everything is all [TS]

  white [TS]

  why they have different time streams [TS]

  what I mean they start since gonna get a [TS]

  lot of money on this thing would be no [TS]

  just a bucket of white paint and a [TS]

  novelty magnifying glass from like the [TS]

  song outside of ignited see the other [TS]

  thing that got me though I really [TS]

  actually really loved the emotional and [TS]

  content structure episode but i think [TS]

  that got me was a sort of um the issue [TS]

  that all the people who are in [TS]

  quarantine for living separate lives [TS]

  I'm like we're all gonna die no the [TS]

  plate once you put them together so they [TS]

  can share this 40 years or whatever [TS]

  they're going to get together instead of [TS]

  giving them isolated lonely lives unless [TS]

  i'm confused and they were all together [TS]

  except me because she did but they're [TS]

  talking about maintaining all of these [TS]

  separate times change everyone [TS]

  individually [TS]

  yeah they were separate time streams and [TS]

  I think the idea was you were supposed [TS]

  to use like the you know the the [TS]

  holodeck basically to entertain yourself [TS]

  it that it reminded me of the TV show [TS]

  off our escape in the seventh at me they [TS]

  would have these bizarre things that [TS]

  oftentimes in farscape you'd also see it [TS]

  in the middle of the action and and they [TS]

  would kind of mention that this was the [TS]

  setup [TS]

  and it was very clearly the message was [TS]

  just it's weird and this is what you do [TS]

  they have to do and we're not going to [TS]

  explain why and I felt like there was [TS]

  enough hand-waving hear that your brain [TS]

  starts to try and grab onto it and be [TS]

  like well why is this happening instead [TS]

  of you know anything you have that [TS]

  choice of trying to make sense of it are [TS]

  saying alright well it's kind of cool [TS]

  there's always white rooms and they're [TS]

  two different time streams and it's [TS]

  weird and then there's a story because I [TS]

  i enjoyed the episode actually quite a [TS]

  lot but I i completely agree and I [TS]

  figured this is how it would go actually [TS]

  that with all yet it didn't make any [TS]

  sense the the setup didn't really just [TS]

  it doesn't compute [TS]

  I have this is the showrunner problem [TS]

  because any of the four of us could have [TS]

  come up with a very simple Doctor Who [TS]

  consistent explanation that would have [TS]

  been like I don't know like well Oh in [TS]

  the you know the disease progresses [TS]

  normally but there's a technique where [TS]

  if you know the clerk temporal energy [TS]

  flux allows them they have to be kept [TS]

  separate and maintained through these [TS]

  separate paradox engines that one the [TS]

  Pirates i like about about doctor who is [TS]

  its attempt a lot of times to either not [TS]

  do technobabble or to simplify it to a [TS]

  ridiculous extend like like even the [TS]

  very first episode of the reboot [TS]

  christopher eccleston says it's it's a [TS]

  being of living plastic and i'm going to [TS]

  kill it [TS]

  Rose what are you gonna do that he holds [TS]

  above a test tube and says auntie [TS]

  plastic paper and that's it [TS]

  Ryan necessary and that its brief [TS]

  beautiful after all crushing [TS]

  technobabble of some sci-fi TV shows I [TS]

  so I like that about it that you know [TS]

  they are more inclined to find some [TS]

  super simplified way of saying well this [TS]

  is how it is right really fast in a [TS]

  English accent that I don't understand [TS]

  and then we move on it could be because [TS]

  we had over the river and stream if we [TS]

  hold them in their own time stream the [TS]

  time energy lets them live 40 years [TS]

  well you know what no you're perfectly [TS]

  honest I wouldn't be surprised if that [TS]

  wasn't in the script originally and got [TS]

  overtime because you know the whole [TS]

  thing is that we know what they want to [TS]

  do in this episode they want to have all [TS]

  day me and you Amy there's no reason to [TS]

  like overcomplicated with the full [TS]

  Doctor Who's episode a jam it in so you [TS]

  can fit in a good solid 40 minutes of [TS]

  the story you want to tell give us a [TS]

  simple premise that gives us all day [TS]

  mean no I mean go with the show they [TS]

  just spent a lot of wheels like it [TS]

  wasn't that kind of episode is a [TS]

  beautiful that is a beautiful episode i [TS]

  think [TS]

  that's right i think i think the more is [TS]

  than trying to give us a framework but I [TS]

  was I mean I was really I was touched by [TS]

  this i was saying earlier watched it [TS]

  twice today because I felt like I'd [TS]

  missed like the emotional nuance not the [TS]

  plot nuances in some episodes I was just [TS]

  gonna say I'm gonna hand it to to Karen [TS]

  Gilliam here because you know she's been [TS]

  displaying summers are back and chops [TS]

  throughout the the first couple series [TS]

  which we've all given our group for but [TS]

  the the nuances between old Amy and new [TS]

  Amy are actually really quite striking [TS]

  especially on second viewing just in [TS]

  terms of the way that her voice patterns [TS]

  work in the the way she says thanks it's [TS]

  very it's actually really really [TS]

  impressive [TS]

  joining us now again from the red [TS]

  waterfall is dave morin idea and thanks [TS]

  for joining us [TS]

  you promised you'd save me jason from [TS]

  your separate timestream is this 50-year [TS]

  old man or seven-year-old an abstract [TS]

  it's 19 I get mad because I wrinkly hey [TS]

  watch your hands to yourself models are [TS]

  so I aside from the premise of the girl [TS]

  who waited i mean i i've heard some [TS]

  positive thoughts about III really i did [TS]

  like it arm I kept wanting to love it [TS]

  am i I'm not sure I got there I i like [TS]

  most of it the premise again was just [TS]

  sort of like all right I'm just gonna go [TS]

  with it after a while and there was some [TS]

  part of the resolution where the doctor [TS]

  has Rory like plug things into slots and [TS]

  it's two other kind of plugging of [TS]

  things in order to resolve leverage with [TS]

  the robot is another thing for the site [TS]

  kind of episode yeah yeahs what it [TS]

  seemed that kind of episode unnecessary [TS]

  and and that led me down a little bit [TS]

  but but the character stuff and that [TS]

  that that core premise of you know Amy [TS]

  what happens if if you end up realizing [TS]

  that you missed a me by 40 years and [TS]

  you've got the opportunity to erase all [TS]

  that time but she's lived it [TS]

  that was great and the whole interaction [TS]

  your karen gillan to to Rennes point [TS]

  I've got a really good performance from [TS]

  her in in both parts actually to show [TS]

  some depth Amy the moment where she gets [TS]

  out her lipstick and she see her husband [TS]

  she hasn't seen for 40 years and then [TS]

  just kind of was like no no and puts it [TS]

  away [TS]

  this is just really great stuff at the [TS]

  heart of this episode if you can [TS]

  kind of get past the kind of weird is it [TS]

  up [TS]

  I mean but it's you know I think this is [TS]

  the the sort of the central dilemma [TS]

  we've talked about with Doctor Who a lot [TS]

  especially with the Steven Moffat [TS]

  seasons is is it you know science [TS]

  fiction or is it something else more [TS]

  like a fairytale you know where things [TS]

  don't necessarily have to you know [TS]

  entirely make sense even I mean I you [TS]

  know you mentioned that plugging things [TS]

  in apartments that's really bother me i [TS]

  thought well how you gonna resolve that [TS]

  ok something ridiculous like that of [TS]

  course that's how you resolve this [TS]

  you're not going to like nitty-gritty [TS]

  technical science cds hit details [TS]

  because no one cares mean that though [TS]

  the core of the stories are saying about [TS]

  the characters and and I you know along [TS]

  those lines I think you know adding [TS]

  saying nice things about Arthur Darvill [TS]

  who I think Rory has this season really [TS]

  come into his own and especially in the [TS]

  last few episodes i think they've really [TS]

  sort of finally got the handle on what [TS]

  to do with him and he gets off the best [TS]

  line in the episode which is to my mind [TS]

  which is to sell the doctor you're [TS]

  turning me into you right which i think [TS]

  is the most damning thing to you know [TS]

  hey this is another one of those [TS]

  episodes where we get a look at the side [TS]

  of the doctor that's not you know saving [TS]

  everybody and helping everybody if [TS]

  people coming around Rory are people [TS]

  becoming Rory fans I really and I is [TS]

  starting i think probably with [TS]

  especially the beginning of the [TS]

  two-parter the one word that that scene [TS]

  he gets to come in and talk to all the [TS]

  Cybermen kind of threatened them i think [TS]

  starting there and and sort of moving [TS]

  forward in the last couple episodes I [TS]

  have become increasingly a fan of him [TS]

  but i think you know I think he's [TS]

  finally gotten a place beyond just OS he [TS]

  sort of this boy you know you sort of [TS]

  there just to provide a love triangle [TS]

  because I think we've clearly gotten in [TS]

  the whole you know this episode [TS]

  especially we've gotten well past the [TS]

  love triangle right thank ya [TS]

  this is entirely about Rory and Amy's [TS]

  relationship and Rory's the thing that [TS]

  brings her around and I think that says [TS]

  once and you know it certainly [TS]

  conclusively that this is these to have [TS]

  such a profound meaningful relationship [TS]

  we got some really nice little flashback [TS]

  stuff in there too right [TS]

  like but i am still a little sick and [TS]

  tired of being constantly reminded that [TS]

  Rory and you know the enemy love each [TS]

  other out [TS]

  you get these universes ever know he's [TS]

  got all your amazing balance the balance [TS]

  from the beginning where Rory just [TS]

  seemed annoying and your kind of like [TS]

  wait why is it always you know Rory [TS]

  still see the boys [TS]

  yeah is this is more annoying moments [TS]

  when you're right there [TS]

  they're writing better giving him stuff [TS]

  to do but his character still bothers me [TS]

  a little bit [TS]

  oh I don't but now he's more stand-up [TS]

  and now he's you know he's the guy with [TS]

  two thousand years he's the guy who you [TS]

  know checked his wife down with the [TS]

  doctors help across you know and that [TS]

  reaches of space race become a bit of a [TS]

  badass [TS]

  he's also use there's a little bit of [TS]

  annoying but I actually the annoying has [TS]

  become kind of endearing because now you [TS]

  kind of see how it's shaping his [TS]

  character in like there's the part of [TS]

  the right that's a little bit annoying [TS]

  but the rest of him and the fact that he [TS]

  is pretty much a stand-up good heart of [TS]

  guy who just wants to you know do the [TS]

  best and things like that's it's a [TS]

  really interesting the way that they're [TS]

  showing off more of that and I didn't [TS]

  definitely in this episode as you're [TS]

  mentioning damn that last line in fact [TS]

  the whole relief the third act where he [TS]

  just is kind of horrified by the doctors [TS]

  actions and the doctor pretty much shows [TS]

  no more something that's a great [TS]

  character limit for oracle and he's he's [TS]

  a total goofball and we've kind of all [TS]

  known that since the beginning right but [TS]

  at the same time he shows off a [TS]

  something we're all accustomed to [TS]

  thinking of the doctor has sort of you [TS]

  know the heroic kind he's the guy who [TS]

  swoops in and saves the day and whatever [TS]

  but especially when we're setting him up [TS]

  more and more with this sort of you know [TS]

  that will it was really boys in with him [TS]

  but he has this darker side [TS]

  Rory represents I think more idealistic [TS]

  view of that of what good is rather than [TS]

  saying you know the doctors the one who [TS]

  has to make the hard decisions and [TS]

  sometimes those decisions are like sort [TS]

  of you know ends justify the means but [TS]

  worries there to provide sort of a [TS]

  counterpoint to the you know you have to [TS]

  do the right thing [TS]

  angled and maybe that's just the benefit [TS]

  of you know the doctors being 900 years [TS]

  old versus you know Rory but i think it [TS]

  provides an interesting dynamic these [TS]

  are two guys who are both trying to do [TS]

  the right thing but you know they have [TS]

  markedly different approaches and so dr. [TS]

  be another urself wery slip for 2,000 [TS]

  years you mean [TS]

  or has more words of rick moranis I [TS]

  believe it good is dumb i was i thinking [TS]

  that exact same quote by me and Scott on [TS]

  the same way to like the night Karen O [TS]

  only bad come of this [TS]

  I'm frightened i started out in the [TS]

  beginning complaining about premise [TS]

  stuff which is silly and we already sort [TS]

  of it [TS]

  actual complaint not a complaint but [TS]

  it's something I noticed about it you [TS]

  meet this episode the good part right [TS]

  that the young the old Amy and all that [TS]

  business so I'm spring to lose my grip [TS]

  on why these two are with the doctor [TS]

  right because they talk about the things [TS]

  like he said well I don't want to travel [TS]

  with you anymore that's a choice you [TS]

  have to make and you're turning me into [TS]

  you and so on and so forth like that we [TS]

  have the kind of happy-go-lucky travels [TS]

  with the doctor episodes which are one [TS]

  thing but when these horrible things [TS]

  start happening i would expect the [TS]

  happy-go-lucky travel to the doctor to [TS]

  be kind of hi I'm insane like I would [TS]

  expect living and traveling with the [TS]

  doctor to be affecting these people more [TS]

  profoundly and screwing them up because [TS]

  otherwise why they have with them if [TS]

  they're still well-adjusted in both love [TS]

  each other go get a farmhouse somewhere [TS]

  and live a happy life on whatever plans [TS]

  you had the option to travel with it [TS]

  also has a chain right so if you get the [TS]

  feeling it's irresistible draw we have [TS]

  to travel to the city manager dangerous [TS]

  dangerous attractive the thing I find [TS]

  interesting though about this is that [TS]

  this was in Hawaii know when premise [TS]

  this was supposed to be a happy-go-lucky [TS]

  episode because the doctor preface it [TS]

  with you know sparkling water falls and [TS]

  things like he's basically saying I'm [TS]

  gonna take you to a paradise planet [TS]

  after all the other crap that we've been [TS]

  through when it is rather than almost [TS]

  every episode starts with ok now we're [TS]

  going to go to a fantastic wonderful [TS]

  place so that you can explore exactly [TS]

  the Bliss of the innovation and maybe in [TS]

  between the episodes they go to those [TS]

  places obviously there's no conflict [TS]

  right but it's not it's whatever i would [TS]

  think these would be screwing them up [TS]

  more and i would like to see that in [TS]

  fact that we see kind of some of it like [TS]

  saying you're turning me into you and [TS]

  this is a horrible experience or [TS]

  whatever like I i would like to see that [TS]

  irresistible draw of seeing space that [TS]

  manifest in them and say well I need two [TS]

  sides of the same coin remember when [TS]

  Rose was like well should i go back with [TS]

  my family I mother there i got my [TS]

  boyfriend or should I go travel with [TS]

  this wonderful she had that conflict of [TS]

  like [TS]

  should I be a nice person on earth [TS]

  should I traveled the space person you [TS]

  could see the drugs seem to fall out in [TS]

  other cases to Martha for example who [TS]

  just decided to leave right because we [TS]

  can't she can't add with it and so I [TS]

  mean there's no saying that we won't see [TS]

  that with with Amy around maybe they [TS]

  have reached their breaking point yet [TS]

  ok everything has been this looks like a [TS]

  breaking point to me because it this [TS]

  episode back but what I mean we also [TS]

  have to remember they've already had [TS]

  TARDIS baby I mean what-what can go more [TS]

  wrong than that that's hardest baby [TS]

  doesn't even get a mention in the last [TS]

  one he had to kill his wife and this one [TS]

  is one of his wives you know version of [TS]

  his life matters and what is their first [TS]

  baby come in earlier this episode and he [TS]

  keeps time she keeps duplicating oh yeah [TS]

  and I don't have the hardest baby no you [TS]

  have to kill his alternate version of [TS]

  his wife but he did it up due to a [TS]

  betrayal of the doctor which is [TS]

  something we haven't seen before so [TS]

  direct so I'm going to explicitly lie to [TS]

  you to make the resolution that I want [TS]

  to happen even though they're not the [TS]

  one that you want to happen you thought [TS]

  you were talking about deliver the [TS]

  doctor lies John yes this excellent the [TS]

  first episode where he's lied in such a [TS]

  way that you have to kill you have to [TS]

  terminate beyond that and that was just [TS]

  my little scene to rain just dive right [TS]

  saw what was coming soon as you're [TS]

  standing there the door and yet i still [TS]

  find myself unable to believe that he [TS]

  actually did it but Rory is Ricky not a [TS]

  degree of making these decisions right [TS]

  he cannot run you cannot make that kind [TS]

  of decision clearly the doctors said [TS]

  yeah he handles what way me but also not [TS]

  anything he told him to do it yeah so he [TS]

  didn't really make the decision he [TS]

  always is [TS]

  he's waiting for other people to tell [TS]

  him what to do he's like it you know an [TS]

  idiot in the time I don't know about [TS]

  that but I think the hearing Scots and [TS]

  overly arch yeah really great really [TS]

  listens to all angles and he thinks [TS]

  about it more than everybody else amy is [TS]

  definitely the rash when he's the moral [TS]

  know he's the moral compass you know a [TS]

  lot of the Companions travelling in the [TS]

  TARDIS as a nurse he should be able to [TS]

  make instant life-and-death decisions [TS]

  based on intuition that that's the one [TS]

  thing like sometimes he acts like a [TS]

  nurse and sometimes he doesn't i prefer [TS]

  to hear [TS]

  allowing nurse that's the something come [TS]

  now let's not insult that okay yeah how [TS]

  many times when you're a nurse you have [TS]

  to decide whether they kill your new [TS]

  wife or your old boy freely like you [TS]

  don't come up every day every day it'll [TS]

  be an integral and hospitals the [TS]

  beautiful thing in this episode those I [TS]

  thought if this is this is one of the [TS]

  central sci-fi premises is the basis of [TS]

  consciousness what is the person what is [TS]

  the continuation of nature of [TS]

  consciousness and if you erase someone's [TS]

  memories for 40 years and you give them [TS]

  a young body you give them a new body [TS]

  move the brain / you duplicate them but [TS]

  there's Wi-Fi is full of these ideas [TS]

  about how you know where's the soul of [TS]

  what is consciousness what is you know [TS]

  we know all those things and I thought [TS]

  this was a great examination of a of a [TS]

  piece of it and it's that's the thing i [TS]

  like is she was strong in the sense of [TS]

  knowing that she was going to lose that [TS]

  entire entire life would not just winds [TS]

  die soon no longer exists which is sort [TS]

  of the the horror of some of the whole [TS]

  arc before to the whole the universe and [TS]

  last season so here's my question she it [TS]

  is not that she just stops existing she [TS]

  never did exist so distraught over her [TS]

  will they not remember that happened but [TS]

  they're outside anything out of that [TS]

  episode where we will remember they can [TS]

  really just cutters today just cut her [TS]

  off and while she didn't she got for her [TS]

  timestream disappear like she chose to [TS]

  die at the hands of the little stupid [TS]

  medical robots instead of letting [TS]

  herself be really know what I wanted to [TS]

  raise that she's fading away that last [TS]

  shot [TS]

  yeah just just please get off here's the [TS]

  thing that I want to see I want to see a [TS]

  conclusion episode in which every [TS]

  alternate evil duplicated killed self of [TS]

  theirs that they've left behind shows up [TS]

  like that are stories is it sounds like [TS]

  a very bad idea [TS]

  adorables army Hey look I mean look at [TS]

  the upside Rory didn't even die in the [TS]

  subs just barely know that's impressive [TS]

  that I need to get he did get bopped on [TS]

  the head by one of those one of those [TS]

  white guys involved in fact yes the hand [TS]

  bots I i do have to say I really feel [TS]

  like the only reason the hand box on [TS]

  this episode is so that we could have a [TS]

  high five that kills them because stupid [TS]

  well there's also be insulting you need [TS]

  Wilson I'm sorry Rory in [TS]

  her hideaway yeah she having sex with [TS]

  that robot that's the question of where [TS]

  did you get the batteries [TS]

  I'm just saying that was quite you see [TS]

  that robot you see hurry you think she [TS]

  had looked yet mascara she could find if [TS]

  she could find a katana I'm sure she [TS]

  could find a magic marker [TS]

  oh yeah that's true that's not with [TS]

  chocolate different Hardware because the [TS]

  Appalachians were whatever the name of [TS]

  that place was yeah yeah Johnny's were [TS]

  kappa said that's like the yeah yeah [TS]

  yeahs Apple recounts a fancy helpfully [TS]

  word this is another episode with really [TS]

  poorly designed ineffectual robots I [TS]

  don't understand what the point is they [TS]

  you know they do high-fives and it [TS]

  disables them you hit them with the Mona [TS]

  Lisa and they blah okay well um had a [TS]

  paper and release on paper but [TS]

  apparently did well there wasn't much [TS]

  accounts they couldn't afford the [TS]

  actually sir what banana which museum [TS]

  shop poster i work as a security guy [TS]

  right so you would think that the there [TS]

  Our Lives going to say oh you're an [TS]

  unauthorized guess but yet you can [TS]

  interact with the interface will tell [TS]

  you everything about the place it [TS]

  doesn't make any sense why me but yeah [TS]

  she does get logged in which was a [TS]

  little a little strange she gets welcome [TS]

  to the facility at first [TS]

  well I think it was more on yeah you [TS]

  always mortgage and the invading of the [TS]

  robots looks like I just like the anti [TS]

  bodies from the yeah everybody's at the [TS]

  hospital the antibodies were a lot [TS]

  scarier but you know speaking of the [TS]

  antibodies i was playing outside my wife [TS]

  play portal one recently and I realized [TS]

  they ripped off that line of like you [TS]

  know you will feel tingling sensation [TS]

  and death 101 hold almost works right [TS]

  Yes No from like it when you're going to [TS]

  like don't fall into the water you will [TS]

  experience rather followed by death was [TS]

  it was almost phrase exactly the same [TS]

  way but if you're gonna rip something [TS]

  off its place to do it [TS]

  great minds think absolutely the I don't [TS]

  know I thought the hand box looked a [TS]

  little bit like the design of Marvin in [TS]

  the ocean action of hitchhikers guide [TS]

  and although I i did like how they look [TS]

  and I liked the episode look I liked all [TS]

  the weight room isn't and sort of [TS]

  airport empty airport terminal feelings [TS]

  and you know I liked how it looked like [TS]

  how it was shot there are some [TS]

  interesting direction and and [TS]

  cinematography choices the back and [TS]

  forth between old Amy and Rory on either [TS]

  side of the target store where we sort [TS]

  of dissolved back and forth while they [TS]

  were talking was really good and there [TS]

  was a there were a bunch of wipes as [TS]

  transitions that was kind of stuff I [TS]

  haven't really seen on Doctor Who before [TS]

  so i really liked in addition to the [TS]

  kind of emotional content at the core of [TS]

  this episode i really liked how it [TS]

  looked again it was it was the this [TS]

  certain stuff didn't make sense to me [TS]

  but there are lots of things about it [TS]

  that I really liked what they came up [TS]

  with you thought you knew it was going [TS]

  to happen you figured the my assumption [TS]

  was so old amy has to sacrifice yourself [TS]

  for young Amy and I said what happens at [TS]

  all I mean she does in the end [TS]

  yes but she doesn't go willingly and she [TS]

  says that means she says that the [TS]

  beginning she weekends then she wants to [TS]

  make a deal and then at the door when [TS]

  she figures no other choice then she's [TS]

  willing finally to make the sacrifice [TS]

  but it is hard she is going screaming [TS]

  into that good night old and I'm like [TS]

  finally at last somebody who isn't just [TS]

  you know the noble sacrifice like she'd [TS]

  earned runs or live one of the things I [TS]

  really like about this episode is the [TS]

  huh [TS]

  they catch it the doctor and recounted [TS]

  at what we want to save Amy from the 36 [TS]

  years of what you described as hell [TS]

  being here we can save you as a younger [TS]

  person from having to experience this [TS]

  and they can say that all they like but [TS]

  at the core of that and it's just clear [TS]

  and every moment that they're together [TS]

  that old Amy and Rory are together that [TS]

  what he's really doing is saying well of [TS]

  course i would prefer if you were my [TS]

  young wife than my old wife [TS]

  yeah which I would choose I would choose [TS]

  the one who hasn't aged and I don't even [TS]

  families many weekends [TS]

  oh no that's that's their I mean that is [TS]

  absolutely how can it not be there that [TS]

  that they will be he doesn't know her [TS]

  anymore really write like that yeah I [TS]

  don't know what everybody changes like I [TS]

  think it's the you know he he has a [TS]

  really hard time relating to those woman [TS]

  who's lived this 36 years he doesn't [TS]

  even want her to touch him you know when [TS]

  she first shows up right well get a [TS]

  little 2,000 years and then showed up [TS]

  for her so yeah this is always leaning [TS]

  over [TS]

  yeah i feel i feel like with with what I [TS]

  mean even say it in the episode where [TS]

  it's like well I wanted to grow old with [TS]

  you and the idea of losing all of those [TS]

  years I mean if you had you know the [TS]

  person you love more than anything if [TS]

  you had 20 years to spend with them [TS]

  before they died or 50 years to spend [TS]

  with them before they died you would [TS]

  want to naturally choose the 50 years [TS]

  and i love the fact that Lori still [TS]

  absolutely love with her [TS]

  I like the central premise of their love [TS]

  too because he's a cocky weird guy and [TS]

  you know and she's and she's a young [TS]

  hottie smarty pants with no job on earth [TS]

  you know she's right so she's not like [TS]

  this great prize in some ways just good [TS]

  looking at but she's really smart and [TS]

  there's but they're both they're both [TS]

  selfless they both do the right thing [TS]

  when called upon and i love the fact [TS]

  that that her descriptions like you know [TS]

  the it's more how love actually works [TS]

  I thought it was very honest way of [TS]

  talking about love actually works how [TS]

  two people fall in love and stay in love [TS]

  rather than that you know the shallower [TS]

  thing about you know is an [TS]

  attractiveness and then that's the thing [TS]

  that you stick with like no she's a [TS]

  little deeper than that and so is he and [TS]

  that's why she married this cocky guy [TS]

  and that's not a cocky we not he's not [TS]

  he's easygoing is now these TV cocky [TS]

  like in real life would be like with my [TS]

  answers but in the end there and puffy [TS]

  yes that everyone but oh now he's cocky [TS]

  yeah but it's still gonna keep on TV no [TS]

  one to see that you know I got back to [TS]

  maybe take on why [TS]

  Rory's dilemma between the young and the [TS]

  old my my feeling and all those scenes [TS]

  was that Rory's overwhelming feeling [TS]

  towards the old amy was that he couldn't [TS]

  help but empathize with the things that [TS]

  she's gone through and blame himself for [TS]

  that so she was always thought he was [TS]

  linked with taking the whole day because [TS]

  like oh my God look what I did look what [TS]

  she's been through and she still is the [TS]

  person that I love even though she's [TS]

  older so I didn't think ull I didn't [TS]

  think it was even entering his mind [TS]

  about in fact I think he was starting to [TS]

  toss the young Arrius this is the person [TS]

  I love and I've made her suffer so [TS]

  terribly it's kind of like you feel like [TS]

  you have to make amends for that our [TS]

  like comfort the person or make up for [TS]

  your career you know your failure [TS]

  previously so I thought he was gonna go [TS]

  with the old I mean I knew that would [TS]

  really happen is kind of rooting for in [TS]

  the back of my mind I would go with the [TS]

  olden right because because she deserves [TS]

  it she's suffered and she suffered to [TS]

  get and [TS]

  your fault you feel bad about cutting it [TS]

  all off his kind of cheating isn't it I [TS]

  mean yeah that while the rules of time [TS]

  travel that are supposed to be the rules [TS]

  right a doctor the doctor that's good [TS]

  responses she's not real and I'm like oh [TS]

  come on that's nothing the doctor [TS]

  actually felt the doctors actions were [TS]

  rather non-genuine at the end he pushes [TS]

  I'm sorry a Glock closes the door locks [TS]

  that any you know he says she's not real [TS]

  it's like once using the target once [TS]

  he's done that he sort of pretending to [TS]

  sever the timestream perhaps but if the [TS]

  doctor was out of character he's not [TS]

  times i don't know i think i think [TS]

  that's an extreme decision [TS]

  keep in mind he's already made her wait [TS]

  before right when she was a little girl [TS]

  I think I think the doctor in carriers [TS]

  from is willing to do that to her again [TS]

  and he will even if you have to cut off [TS]

  her too much true to do and i think i [TS]

  can even make an argument for [TS]

  self-delusion herself convincing at that [TS]

  point right [TS]

  he needs to tell himself that she's not [TS]

  real in order or else he's gonna have a [TS]

  real hard time thinking about you know [TS]

  what he's actually done a doctor can't [TS]

  come to come to guilt or bad terrible [TS]

  terrible things happen and practically [TS]

  speaking I want to see an old Amy for [TS]

  the remainder of the season gets back [TS]

  we're going elsewhere old make up the [TS]

  rest with the hottest fifty-year-old [TS]

  that you've ever seen yeah I lack an act [TS]

  but the rest of her was like those good [TS]

  old age makeup that I find my nose it [TS]

  was flat line i gotta say i love secret [TS]

  part of me was rooting for both of them [TS]

  to make it on the TARDIS because of that [TS]

  one section where she's like just pop by [TS]

  Christmas and Easter and I'm like man [TS]

  that would be a hilarious [TS]

  yeah subplot to have on doctor who is [TS]

  just old old Karen gallery hopping [TS]

  around the galaxy on her own [TS]

  well you know this reminds me a little [TS]

  bit of Elizabeth train sladen a bit like [TS]

  when when David tenantry meets her and [TS]

  she's aged you know Sarah Jane is aged [TS]

  in the episode of this schoolhouse there [TS]

  and got lost [TS]

  hey yeah and it's into these younger [TS]

  right he's even gotten younger the last [TS]

  time last incarnation is probably and [TS]

  it's that same thing it's like the [TS]

  doctor keeps moving on coming on and [TS]

  he's met doctors met his match and [TS]

  marine Amy because they have messed up x [TS]

  James she's the one who rebuilds [TS]

  universe because she remembers he waits [TS]

  work with 2,000 years that's a different [TS]

  time stream [TS]

  she waits 40 years [TS]

  and is able to but I collapse of the [TS]

  time strange so he's actually i would [TS]

  argue that they have they have some a [TS]

  few different things up on him [TS]

  it always come back for the debt 800 [TS]

  dodge I'm sorry only 15 whatever we [TS]

  haven't we haven't seen the other side [TS]

  off-screen yeah exactly that's ok you [TS]

  have killed again they can all of those [TS]

  honeymoon vacations that are off-screen [TS]

  as well so let me ask let me ask this [TS]

  because we've spent a lot of time on [TS]

  this episode did people all in all an [TS]

  imbalance did you did you enjoy it did [TS]

  you like it [TS]

  I did I i quite enjoyed it and besides [TS]

  like little little things here and there [TS]

  I still think it was a really [TS]

  interesting look at withhold Amy and you [TS]

  Amy and you know what [TS]

  as was it Scott are you saying that or [TS]

  was John were you saying about how how [TS]

  it's sort of pushing them to their [TS]

  breaking point about being with the [TS]

  doctor because I think that's definitely [TS]

  true in a way and you really do notice [TS]

  it may be said that of you gentlemen [TS]

  oh definitely well yeah because they're [TS]

  they're not going to stay with the [TS]

  doctor for I've ever do I mean but we [TS]

  didn't they keep coming to get him back [TS]

  right there's been two instances so far [TS]

  we're trying to signal memories from the [TS]

  signal them [TS]

  yeah they will have never existed very [TS]

  well just cut off a time stream right [TS]

  Scott did you like this episode I [TS]

  overall I did I really doctor who drives [TS]

  me crazy with the improbable I mean the [TS]

  very you know premises improbable but [TS]

  that you expect you accept certain [TS]

  things and then they just pushed a [TS]

  little too far but it was saved by all [TS]

  the emotional stuff I think emotional [TS]

  crap [TS]

  yeah they don't really care about TF [TS]

  girls like I I knew you were working [TS]

  with their stats here there's got I get [TS]

  I can tell United fast / removing I [TS]

  thought the whole the premise of it was [TS]

  very moving but they didn't need the [TS]

  stupid technology on top of it right [TS]

  John I think yeah so there were lots of [TS]

  horrible things in it but the the two [TS]

  amys the two amys part of it like the [TS]

  hardest of the episode I like episodes [TS]

  of Doctor Who where somebody does [TS]

  something horrible something horrible [TS]

  happens to someone else like I like them [TS]

  so that the doctor the doctor closing [TS]

  that door or its previous doctor who but [TS]

  yeah i wanna see I wanna really [TS]

  also those the two amys their make that [TS]

  episode for me I really did like her [TS]

  performance as the old Amy I thought it [TS]

  was convincing and good and not clich├ęd [TS]

  like if there was no sort of [TS]

  conciliatory oh it's okay we're still [TS]

  buddies like she was she was cold to him [TS]

  she was weird just messed up from being [TS]

  alone for a long time hated the doctor [TS]

  right and she didn't watch you didn't [TS]

  set is someone pointed out because you [TS]

  didn't sacrifice yourself for autistic [TS]

  no I want to live let me in the front [TS]

  artists on the hell you know it was all [TS]

  that was good and it redeemed the [TS]

  episode and put it over the fifty [TS]

  percent mark alright damn 51-percent I i [TS]

  really like this and in fact i think the [TS]

  entire this season which I thought [TS]

  started really weak as really [TS]

  transformed into a much stronger you [TS]

  know storyline after with that two-part [TS]

  starting with the two-parter with the [TS]

  the the baby and prevent revelations of [TS]

  our trunk and I thought that this week's [TS]

  episode and last week's episode were [TS]

  really I i enjoyed by both and i think [TS]

  i'm looking forward much more to the end [TS]

  of this season now and I I mean the [TS]

  improbability stuff doesn't bother me as [TS]

  much i'm terrible with potholes as [TS]

  anyone who's ever read anything I've [TS]

  written can attest I I just don't I you [TS]

  know I don't think about them as much I [TS]

  don't find myself worrying about them [TS]

  and so I am more invested in the [TS]

  character aspect of it and I thought [TS]

  this really delivered on fat and it was [TS]

  nice to see an episode that was even if [TS]

  it had sort of a weird premise for you [TS]

  know setting up this story it was all [TS]

  about the characters not about let's [TS]

  meet some random aliens in like you know [TS]

  hang out also has missed that part of [TS]

  the episode but when we were discussing [TS]

  we're trying to say it's not so much [TS]

  that we have the problems with the the [TS]

  plot that being full of holes in stuff [TS]

  like that today is that they wasted so [TS]

  much time on that stuff when this wasn't [TS]

  that kind of an episode like it they [TS]

  squandered the opportunity like it's not [TS]

  that they always it's always nonsensical [TS]

  and doesn't fit together whatever but [TS]

  don't dwell on it and don't make more [TS]

  complicated than you have to and don't [TS]

  waste time when you have this good this [TS]

  duel anything that's good you that [TS]

  should have been any more of the episode [TS]

  right calamitous that no more [TS]

  I I like I've had them genuine emotional [TS]

  content trademark it was a certified i [TS]

  know i found myself engaged and weeping [TS]

  at the end openly weeping I will say it [TS]

  and I thought it had a was a it was a [TS]

  genuine miss about the most about the [TS]

  relationships that you don't always get [TS]

  in any television and I think that's [TS]

  something that's always fascinated [TS]

  doctor who is the plots can be [TS]

  ridiculous but they sometimes captures [TS]

  perfect bit of selflessness or love or [TS]

  weirdness that that other shows don't [TS]

  that's why i watch it all right well we [TS]

  are going to step away for another maybe [TS]

  a couple of weeks for their I guess [TS]

  there are three more episodes of Doctor [TS]

  Who this up the season so more flash [TS]

  podcast to come until then I want to [TS]

  thank my many guests there seem to be [TS]

  more of them now than when we started [TS]

  it's very strange here so thanks to make [TS]

  this private thanks to Dan more'n thanks [TS]

  to surrender the cold well thanks to [TS]

  John siracusa and no thanks discovered [TS]

  weight and Peggy's got the guilty to [TS]

  until next time for the uncomfortable [TS]

  podcasts and jason still [TS]

  [Music] [TS]