The Incomparable

63: Like a Good Book Exploded


  the incomparable contest number 60 every [TS]

  october twenty LM welcome back to the [TS]

  uncomfortable podcast i am your host [TS]

  Jason L we're in the midst of talking [TS]

  about gigantic fantasy novels in our [TS]

  previous podcast we talked about George [TS]

  RR Martin's latest dance with dragons [TS]

  and in this edition we're going to [TS]

  continue our massive fantasy tome [TS]

  discussion with Patrick Rafa's new book [TS]

  The Wise Man's Fear joining me on this [TS]

  podcast as always are [TS]

  dan morgan serenity Caldwell John [TS]

  siracusa and Scott McNulty now i should [TS]

  say that the wise man's fear is the [TS]

  sequel to the name of the wind that [TS]

  we've covered in episode number 29 of [TS]

  the uncomfortable titled magic fridge [TS]

  however I wasn't actually on that [TS]

  podcast because at the time I did not [TS]

  know the name of the wind illustration [TS]

  it's george mr. but I thought they call [TS]

  the wind Mariah comments concerns anyway [TS]

  they the the sequel also a giant [TS]

  thousand-page fantasy novel The Wise [TS]

  Man's Fear by Patrick Rothfuss and I've [TS]

  read that one too [TS]

  i I'm fully up to date on the both saga [TS]

  as it were can't even pronounce his name [TS]

  that's pretty good but you read the [TS]

  first one and the second one [TS]

  yes I have read I've read them I've read [TS]

  them both i read the first one so i [TS]

  could listen to my own podcast so it's [TS]

  supposedly supposedly there is only one [TS]

  left [TS]

  that's really yeah I i kept I kept [TS]

  waiting for the kill [TS]

  killer chronicles day 3 and at the end [TS]

  of book 3 is like wow I thought I told [TS]

  you this would only go three days but I [TS]

  think we're over time so let's just come [TS]

  back and finish it booked for no I think [TS]

  my my first question for everybody is do [TS]

  you think that book 3 will finish the [TS]

  past or are we going to get some present [TS]

  our is the framing story going to become [TS]

  the primary story at the end of this [TS]

  this run [TS]

  well think of how think about it done so [TS]

  far like what's the overall story arc of [TS]

  these supposed three books it's like bad [TS]

  guys killed his parents and I'm assuming [TS]

  it's going to be like he comes of age [TS]

  and [TS]

  and has some sort of conflict with these [TS]

  bad guys to kill his parents but we got [TS]

  2,000 pages and what does he really done [TS]

  to progress in that story arc well get [TS]

  bad guys to kill his parents we got that [TS]

  out of college [TS]

  yeah he was called you learn how to make [TS]

  magic fridge and he kind of learned a [TS]

  little bit of magic stuff and he figured [TS]

  out the guys who killed his parents are [TS]

  real [TS]

  that's good that's a step out and that [TS]

  basically is that it exists and that [TS]

  they're bad but they're only here only [TS]

  figured out they exist because of [TS]

  proving the existence of some guys to [TS]

  fought them right [TS]

  I love that piece that's it's like it's [TS]

  like discovering exoplanets by seeing [TS]

  the gravitational shifts in like the [TS]

  stars or whatever [TS]

  well he likes the you know he's probably [TS]

  on the guy but seriously 2,000 pages he [TS]

  has not made a really significant [TS]

  progress in his quest to avenge the [TS]

  death of his parents and fight like that [TS]

  time was spent a lot of time doing other [TS]

  things two thousand pages with other [TS]

  things but so what I say is he gonna [TS]

  finish up or we can have time I don't [TS]

  think he's gonna have time to just get [TS]

  through the main story arc in book 3 and [TS]

  let alone to have like present-day stuff [TS]

  where the old John it turns out he never [TS]

  actually found who killed his parents he [TS]

  just he just gave up and working about [TS]

  working apartment have a basic story and [TS]

  then where do you go to do with the [TS]

  present-day stop rafas is not afraid as [TS]

  an author to just skip over stuff like [TS]

  when he there was a shipwreck at the [TS]

  trial the trial was really exactly yeah [TS]

  and then what happened yeah no I think [TS]

  it's good i think it's great and I think [TS]

  that's how he can end it in three books [TS]

  because he'll just say okay and then a [TS]

  bunch of stuff happened that sounds [TS]

  really interesting but I'm not gonna [TS]

  tell you about it and here's the climate [TS]

  and I kept those guys keep my parents [TS]

  that felt good [TS]

  what was kind of cool about this book is [TS]

  that we do start to see the the the [TS]

  things about clothes that that make him [TS]

  such a legendary figure right we see him [TS]

  doing all this stuff that nobody else [TS]

  has done you know I see him going to [TS]

  that crazy fairy realm we see him [TS]

  training with the warrior guys we seem [TS]

  like you know murder that entire caravan [TS]

  basically and these are all things that [TS]

  then become stories of him and we we do [TS]

  start to realize that some of the [TS]

  stories are inflated and out of [TS]

  proportion I'd that's my favorite part [TS]

  of it honestly is hearing is in the [TS]

  present framing story when the people in [TS]

  the bar arguing about like the stories [TS]

  about clothes [TS]

  it is I find that fascinating that [TS]

  little bit of metafiction it's like all [TS]

  these world you know these characters [TS]

  are our [TS]

  thing about this legendary figure oh no [TS]

  he was 20 feet tall no sword was this [TS]

  thing or whatever I kind of enjoyed that [TS]

  part of it [TS]

  yeah I you know it's for me that the [TS]

  strange thing is that is that not that [TS]

  he is bold enough to say well suffice it [TS]

  to say there was a shipwreck and i ended [TS]

  up naked penny listen town right because [TS]

  that's kind of funny [TS]

  the weird thing to me is there are these [TS]

  things that feel like digressions and [TS]

  they're probably important to the [TS]

  overall story but still at one point so [TS]

  i think i'm watching a story of a guy [TS]

  coming of age and learning things in the [TS]

  University and then at one point it's [TS]

  like well we're gonna take this [TS]

  diversion and you're going to go to this [TS]

  other town where there's a guy who's [TS]

  kind of like a king but he's not a king [TS]

  and you're gonna be in you're going to [TS]

  be in his service so you go there [TS]

  there's this whole digression I'm [TS]

  learning how to play a game and out what [TS]

  all the coins me and I'm going to meet [TS]

  the guy and I'm gonna befriend him like [TS]

  this is a strange digression and then [TS]

  the King says I'm gonna send you on a [TS]

  mission [TS]

  it's like wait now we're in a digression [TS]

  inside the digression and we're not done [TS]

  yet [TS]

  and then we are on the mission there's [TS]

  the the he goes into the fairy realm and [TS]

  now what it's like with three what we're [TS]

  inside the the round parentheses and [TS]

  then inside the square bat brackets and [TS]

  then inside the curly brackets right [TS]

  it's like how deep in its its brackets [TS]

  all the way down Jason yeah wise man's [TS]

  inception evidence that it's it's framed [TS]

  in this story the framing students with [TS]

  you right after the framing stories that [TS]

  were four levels and it's in a book that [TS]

  you're reading in the story of your own [TS]

  what so so that's the part that that's [TS]

  the part that killed me is like he's [TS]

  bold enough to say i'm not going to talk [TS]

  about the trial I'm not gonna talk about [TS]

  the shipwreck and yet something else [TS]

  like you're going to meet the guy and [TS]

  learn about the court and often but i [TS]

  think it's far east and then and then [TS]

  you're going to go on a mission and [TS]

  you're going to meet new people and [TS]

  you're gonna have adventures with him in [TS]

  the trees and learn with this guy who's [TS]

  got martial arts skills and then you're [TS]

  going to go to fairyland have a lot of [TS]

  very sex for a while then you'll come [TS]

  back it's like you know wow [TS]

  and they don't have sex with ninjas but [TS]

  i think that the i think i made this [TS]

  point in our the podcast about the first [TS]

  book is that I think the book is really [TS]

  about storytelling right so and can both [TS]

  isn't building his own legend so we [TS]

  and I have to we have to you know it's [TS]

  kind of a shaggy dog story right where [TS]

  he's just kind of popped around and [TS]

  doing all these kinds of crazy things [TS]

  and the real story is the framing story [TS]

  that isn't really much of a story but [TS]

  he's telling his own story and and then [TS]

  so he's telling the story of how he got [TS]

  to where he is but dude can we actually [TS]

  trust what he's saying I don't know but [TS]

  that's a whole part i agree with [TS]

  Scotland and that's fascinating i mean [TS]

  if you've ever known somebody who is [TS]

  really great it like likes it now you [TS]

  sit down in a bar and have a drink with [TS]

  them and they tell like really [TS]

  engrossing stories other life I've had [TS]

  it I've met a couple people over the [TS]

  years were just like it's fascinating [TS]

  you just always want to know what [TS]

  happened after that right and I think [TS]

  that that clothes very much that that [TS]

  kind of figure where it's just like [TS]

  you're just kinda hooked on what he's [TS]

  telling you and and you don't [TS]

  necessarily you know to a certain extent [TS]

  maybe you want your wonder where it goes [TS]

  all goes like you know overall but at [TS]

  the same time you're just too engrossed [TS]

  in these stories to necessarily care [TS]

  immediately maybe at the end you really [TS]

  can't wait well what is the point of [TS]

  that but i think i think there's a time [TS]

  when you're reading it and you're in it [TS]

  where it's just it is very engrossing [TS]

  let's recall how this story begins [TS]

  though allowed his book begins around [TS]

  this book begins when I don't know how [TS]

  many it is because we're all reading it [TS]

  electronically but it seems like a big [TS]

  big hunk of pages where it's like high [TS]

  drinks at hog works and he has no money [TS]

  and then is often the distance and he's [TS]

  borrowing money from debbie and Ambrose [TS]

  is on his case because Ambrose is me and [TS]

  that went on for a long time like Jesus [TS]

  did we do a whole like look at this [TS]

  stuff but they gonna go somewhere so I [TS]

  was relieved when days are finally let's [TS]

  do something different they repeated [TS]

  every single thing from the first book [TS]

  within the first year you wanted 200 [TS]

  then finally that I had to invent [TS]

  something yeah like I was given a poison [TS]

  and i had to get my my tuition and it [TS]

  was large and I fucking say what you [TS]

  will about the University stuff but it's [TS]

  all it's all written so enjoy i believe [TS]

  that I don't mind it so much and despite [TS]

  any i'm a sucker for university stories [TS]

  so yeah it's it's repetitive and it's [TS]

  boring but it's fun and there's music [TS]

  and and you get to I feel like you're [TS]

  learning more about the world in it [TS]

  well we learned about that in the first [TS]

  book though that's why i was happy when [TS]

  he left and when he went through all [TS]

  these digressions i found the [TS]

  digressions much more interesting then [TS]

  university life even though as Jason [TS]

  points out they seem to go nowhere haha [TS]

  i like each aggression was like oh [TS]

  that's a cool little setting and now [TS]

  okay i was another little setting out [TS]

  the ferry sex with blonde but even in [TS]

  the very sex they had the thing to live [TS]

  in the tree which is interesting and [TS]

  then we're on to something else and the [TS]

  story about the moon and and and I [TS]

  before we go any further I want to [TS]

  recommend highly chill Walton who wrote [TS]

  a book that i just read that i liked a [TS]

  lot Joe Walton the author Welsh author [TS]

  is blogging a reread analysis of these [TS]

  books on and it's fascinating [TS]

  actually because it sounds like there [TS]

  are lots and lots of things that are [TS]

  really embedded in this story in the [TS]

  first book and the second one apparently [TS]

  rafas wrote all these books is first [TS]

  draft before we went back so we have to [TS]

  go rewrite so he knows so this it's not [TS]

  like he's making it up as he goes along [TS]

  their stuff in there and and it blew my [TS]

  mind reading the blog post because [TS]

  they're there is the story that's being [TS]

  told here in a lot of detail like the [TS]

  one that really blew me away is in the [TS]

  in the second book when he said that the [TS]

  Court of the mire and the mire it has [TS]

  has married the loculus lady and she is [TS]

  up [TS]

  she hates um whatever the demo room yeah [TS]

  the gypsies the edema ruh which which [TS]

  both as a member of and one of the [TS]

  reasons is because her cousin sister on [TS]

  something ran off and married one that's [TS]

  totally closed mother his mother in yeah [TS]

  and in fact if you look at the first [TS]

  book one of the songs the song that his [TS]

  mother yells at his father for singing [TS]

  ends with a rhyme that at the time [TS]

  looked like she was saying that she [TS]

  lacked less and it turns out that it's [TS]

  the name of the lattice character who is [TS]

  his mother's real name and so I love [TS]

  that the fact that it upon scrutiny this [TS]

  story actually has more going on than [TS]

  you'd think because I you know you get [TS]

  the sense of that I notice of it like [TS]

  when he's in Fairyland everything [TS]

  fullerene says is in rhymed couplets [TS]

  even though it's not written as verse [TS]

  she speaks in verse so you have to sort [TS]

  of read [TS]

  out loud and figure out that that's what [TS]

  she's doing lots of nice touches like [TS]

  that i think crank up my my estimation [TS]

  of this story a lot that it is it does [TS]

  feel rich even though i am laughing to [TS]

  my stuff when we're in a digression [TS]

  inside aggression inside and aggression [TS]

  inside a frame i still don't call that a [TS]

  good story though that's maybe like he [TS]

  has interesting it that's kind of like [TS]

  soap opera plot points where things [TS]

  interact now and I wouldn't say so [TS]

  there's a writing question or conflict [TS]

  and and the character that goes through [TS]

  some sort of change and like it i I [TS]

  don't I mean I like those in those [TS]

  worlds in those settings and i enjoy [TS]

  reading you know about them and stuff [TS]

  but in terms of storytelling I want a [TS]

  story like it dipped ability even [TS]

  something as big and flabby is Lord of [TS]

  the Rings still has an overall story the [TS]

  ring they got destroyed they have this [TS]

  big long journey that you know that it [TS]

  is a bunch of crap in the middle but [TS]

  there's still an arc now maybe the third [TS]

  book will do that but so far it's been [TS]

  two books of treading water pleasant [TS]

  treading water in some cases but it's [TS]

  entirely an arc i would argue that the [TS]

  character changes from book 12 i mean if [TS]

  you look at where he is when he starts [TS]

  out you know in terms of like we get his [TS]

  backstory and then I think the scene the [TS]

  scene in that whole book that gave me [TS]

  the most sort of like recognition of [TS]

  this this character change changing is [TS]

  when he murders that entire caravan [TS]

  right like in cold blood essentially [TS]

  right like that's that is a very [TS]

  different guy that like that is not a [TS]

  university studio i'm happy to be [TS]

  learning stuff just hanging out with my [TS]

  friends having some drinks playing some [TS]

  music no and then I murder a whole bunch [TS]

  of people he was always a hothead and [TS]

  jerk low [TS]

  ya know there's a difference between a [TS]

  hot-headed jerk and murdering people and [TS]

  what I don't know I didn't see it out of [TS]

  character because he was always getting [TS]

  it under his skin anytime anyone said [TS]

  anything about his quote unquote erase [TS]

  but really just his profession or [TS]

  whatever the Gypsy people you know I [TS]

  hate them and he was ready to kill them [TS]

  and second everybody but yet but that's [TS]

  if that's going to be where they're [TS]

  going to go with the story there's a [TS]

  bunch of other stuff there that doesn't [TS]

  contribute to that and and I don't like [TS]

  i said i think the things that I like [TS]

  the best are the things that aren't [TS]

  actually contributing to the story and [TS]

  that works against my estimation of his [TS]

  overall story [TS]

  John you're right you're in digman [TS]

  wrapped in a riddle is true and it was [TS]

  the story is the story of how he becomes [TS]

  the man in the framing story the right [TS]

  so it's not yet it's stories like him [TS]

  tracking down who killed his parents [TS]

  that's what contributed to making him [TS]

  the character that he is he's not he's [TS]

  not really getting any closer to be the [TS]

  guy that I disagree with that I don't [TS]

  know my vision of the guy in the framing [TS]

  story is that he's much older than the [TS]

  guy in the regular story so I don't know [TS]

  maybe he is there no no it's supposed to [TS]

  be like 34 is yeah he's they say that [TS]

  he's he he yeah he said he's actually [TS]

  surprisingly gotta lose all of his magic [TS]

  powers and all this physical ability in [TS]

  a very short time they have one bright [TS]

  but does he lose it though that's the [TS]

  question right because he is just acting [TS]

  or is he we don't know does he lose it [TS]

  or lose faith [TS]

  I mean that's the real question right [TS]

  because he gets beaten up at one point [TS]

  but it doesn't matter whether he's [TS]

  allowing that to happen yeah but it does [TS]

  he let i think i do i read it into it [TS]

  that he allowed that to happen because [TS]

  he was a you know trying to keep he's [TS]

  hiding from something we don't know what [TS]

  or why [TS]

  well I i read that as him screwing up [TS]

  legitimately because he and I grace for [TS]

  over one was saying they're about lack [TS]

  of faith that you know they're so [TS]

  there's clearly something has shaken him [TS]

  to my reading because you know clearly [TS]

  the whole twist there at the end is that [TS]

  bast hire these guys right to come in [TS]

  try and trick him into being him all his [TS]

  old self again and it didn't work so you [TS]

  know you can certainly make the argument [TS]

  that he's he's doing this and all [TS]

  putting on a show but that that and [TS]

  maybe that you know lives up to his epic [TS]

  nature oh I knew I knew you were trying [TS]

  to trick me best so I played against you [TS]

  right but it felt a little too genuine [TS]

  to me the way that he starts to do [TS]

  something right and then screws up even [TS]

  like figuring out he's like martial arts [TS]

  moves that's that's what he would do if [TS]

  he was faking it but no I don't know [TS]

  I've his entire his entire frame of [TS]

  reference for me and these in this [TS]

  framing story just he feels broken every [TS]

  scene you read about him in the in the [TS]

  framing story I mean it's like his hair [TS]

  is dulled and he just has sort of a you [TS]

  know a hunch when he works and you can [TS]

  still sort of get the the spark of where [TS]

  what he used to be when he's telling me [TS]

  stories but and a general thing like you [TS]

  you look at him virtually look through [TS]

  the the way that roughness is describing [TS]

  the character and you don't you see a [TS]

  shred of the man he used to be at least [TS]

  thats that's how i see it it is a sad [TS]

  sack that I suppose the counter-argument [TS]

  to that is he supposed to be this [TS]

  masterful performance to like it's in [TS]

  some ways it's like he's piece body into [TS]

  the role [TS]

  yeah that he was performing they could [TS]

  still say that he was faking it and he [TS]

  is a sad so yes he's kind of like Bill [TS]

  Murray what they could they couldn't [TS]

  it's more I think it's more interesting [TS]

  if he's not [TS]

  yeah so what do we think about whe about [TS]

  Jenna who is continues to be kind of [TS]

  this weird character that just she's--oh [TS]

  she's so she's so great and and yes [TS]

  she's so she's also so mysterious and [TS]

  she has a mysterious patron and and with [TS]

  the exception of the scene where she [TS]

  basically where he eavesdrops on her as [TS]

  she tells the the girl that she can be a [TS]

  prostitute of various kinds or she can [TS]

  find another line of work to be in which [TS]

  i thought was kind of interesting but I [TS]

  i find her problematic because she does [TS]

  seem kind of like this flat empty [TS]

  oh it's the love of his life but she's [TS]

  not that interesting she's I feel like [TS]

  maybe because her story is so wrapped up [TS]

  in the overarching story we only see her [TS]

  in one in one perspective exactly and [TS]

  you only see him from which will be a [TS]

  very clever reveal but at the same time [TS]

  we have two books of her being [TS]

  completely flat and boring well so is [TS]

  Ambrose Ambrose another flight character [TS]

  we have no Ambrose is completely [TS]

  one-dimensional he's not even a [TS]

  character there's a lot of I complain [TS]

  about the characters in the first one [TS]

  and it continues to be the case in the [TS]

  Second a lot of cookie cutter character [TS]

  and even even the main character i still [TS]

  think it's still kind of marry soon [TS]

  within the way that he's good at [TS]

  everything that he tries in an annoying [TS]

  way and another issue i'll get to when [TS]

  we get to a later section but that's it [TS]

  jenna is the flat test because she's so [TS]

  one-dimensional but Ambrose is also one [TS]

  dimension but we just accept that will [TS]

  hear the antagonist is not that [TS]

  important he's he's not the main [TS]

  antagonist and I keep waiting for [TS]

  clothes to kill him and have it [TS]

  basically ruin his life [TS]

  yeah battle things happen I mean we are [TS]

  alluded to the fact they basically gets [TS]

  kicked out right well accepted yes he [TS]

  actually does it kill Leon von clairol [TS]

  story [TS]

  yeah yeah I don't know it doesn't [TS]

  officially get kicked out he's just [TS]

  strongly suggested that he leave so it's [TS]

  unclear whether we've seen that or not [TS]

  but I mean if he murdered Ambrose and [TS]

  like really had to leave like that would [TS]

  just differ is a self-defense what you [TS]

  it's interesting that all the settings [TS]

  that he seems to be put in are ones [TS]

  where there's an authority that has [TS]

  control over his life he goes right from [TS]

  the University where we had a book and a [TS]

  half practically of his life being ruled [TS]

  by the rules of this university where [TS]

  you have to pay tuition and you have to [TS]

  do this but you can't do bad magic and [TS]

  these people blah blah and it goes right [TS]

  into the mayor Harvey process that guy's [TS]

  name [TS]

  whereas another another place where he's [TS]

  not in control he's got to be nice to [TS]

  the Kingsley guy are also is gonna hang [TS]

  him or kill my keys at the mercy of a [TS]

  rule system bronze ring yeah he's all he [TS]

  has been defined system in any second if [TS]

  you runs afoul of the system it's a [TS]

  life-threatening thing either because [TS]

  he's gonna be poor and destitute out on [TS]

  the street and out of the university or [TS]

  biggest are just gonna hang them because [TS]

  the guys capricious and very powerful [TS]

  and then he goes into the Adem same [TS]

  situation should we kill them should be [TS]

  trained him i don't know like he's [TS]

  always at the mercy of will train him [TS]

  and ven killing right [TS]

  didn't see that one coming he's always [TS]

  at the mercy of these systems that he [TS]

  did invent so and even in the face [TS]

  another situation like this character [TS]

  goes from one set of I think of it like [TS]

  school like if you are in a school [TS]

  system where you have to abide by the [TS]

  set of rules that you think arbitrary [TS]

  unfair whatever every place he goes it's [TS]

  like school program where someone else [TS]

  is in charge of him [TS]

  it does it does have that IDC assertive [TS]

  feeling to it though doesn't it where he [TS]

  wanders around from place to place in [TS]

  there you know I the odyssey is a little [TS]

  like the original anthology series this [TS]

  myth like and now there will be some [TS]

  adventures here for a while and then he [TS]

  will move on but boring bureaucratic [TS]

  because it's like a rule principle is [TS]

  managing this the King's gonna hang your [TS]

  you didn't follow the right rules for [TS]

  these ninja people's it's the bureau and [TS]

  kisses the Cyclops have a very clear set [TS]

  of rules roddis on the door to the [TS]

  Cyclops's cave it said you know [TS]

  employees must hand wash hands before [TS]

  they return to work and you know all [TS]

  that sort of thing right there ass ring [TS]

  without the event the LED ring for the [TS]

  Cyclops would ring and you [TS]

  yeah exactly so can I talk about women [TS]

  I don't know why Ren doesn't bring this [TS]

  up because she's supposed to be the [TS]

  female representative but I continued [TS]

  date especially in fact happen [TS]

  yeah I haven't had a chance to talk [TS]

  about the women you to talk right also [TS]

  so artists artists of the sex part of [TS]

  the women [TS]

  in this book gets to have guests to have [TS]

  sex with the sexy supernatural being in [TS]

  the universe is at a time [TS]

  Maria and who teaches him the ways of [TS]

  players right we don't know and a ninja [TS]

  warrior woman who mixes casual [TS]

  commitment free sex in with her training [TS]

  and who if you knock her up won't be on [TS]

  you for any responsibility because she [TS]

  doesn't believe you had anything to do [TS]

  with that baby [TS]

  well that's her closer this is yeah this [TS]

  is that what you Larry Ultimate Male and [TS]

  the sex fantasy book where all your [TS]

  desires will be fulfilled in multiple [TS]

  possible ways you have your main [TS]

  leverages you have your sex goddess you [TS]

  have your warrior woman is just there [TS]

  for casual sex now for fun [TS]

  well we did go eighteen hundred pages [TS]

  with him being a virgin [TS]

  I know but like it's just ridiculous [TS]

  like it I its juvenile it's silly its [TS]

  movement I'll that the female characters [TS]

  are it's it's a parody of itself I don't [TS]

  know if he meant it to be a parody but [TS]

  like can you add and I got so so this is [TS]

  this is my theory on on women and in [TS]

  general the the way that the killer [TS]

  chronicles are lined up is that because [TS]

  it is a story of both and the way he is [TS]

  going it's very much I feel like every [TS]

  single character and this includes [TS]

  Ambrose antenna and everybody else is [TS]

  seen through his eyes and as such is [TS]

  told through the perspective of him at [TS]

  that point I feel like I'm and I may be [TS]

  terribly wrong but I feel like the [TS]

  reason why didn't it comes across as [TS]

  boring the reason why Ambrose comes [TS]

  across as one-dimensional because we're [TS]

  only seeing both perspective at the age [TS]

  that he's at and hopefully when we get [TS]

  into the third book i'm crossing my [TS]

  fingers that things become more [TS]

  three-dimensional but it's the older guy [TS]

  telling the story that I brought this up [TS]

  in the first podcast like I was in on [TS]

  that theory but it's the older one [TS]

  telling story its not I know what you're [TS]

  saying like what is he telling it from [TS]

  like this is what I thought when I was [TS]

  18 and I was an idiot and what we don't [TS]

  have a counterexample right because [TS]

  they're there are no women in the [TS]

  framing story really right [TS]

  no I mean it's well any have em and [TS]

  that's the other part that that's the [TS]

  part we see through chroniclers eyes [TS]

  right we have we have no I idea of how [TS]

  we treat women how women are described [TS]

  there's no baseline we only have the the [TS]

  past narrative quote relating the [TS]

  stories of women so [TS]

  but if you were telling the story when [TS]

  you were 16 wouldn't you be saying about [TS]

  boys I was such an idiot a 16 here's [TS]

  what I thought about x y&z but he never [TS]

  does that [TS]

  well I don't know I feel like there's a [TS]

  fair amount of I was an idiot overlaid [TS]

  in a lot of this story jumped off a roof [TS]

  right but that's what he doesn't say [TS]

  that about the women he doesn't say all [TS]

  night long for dinner and she was so [TS]

  wonderful you know he doesn't have that [TS]

  contrast that we do have one at least [TS]

  one Orie who I think is one you know a [TS]

  female character that's actually not a [TS]

  mite yeah some i will develop a question [TS]

  that one right but I'm saying like she's [TS]

  not she's not a sex object [TS]

  she's not you know I you serious flow [TS]

  jerk [TS]

  I think she's got interesting there's a [TS]

  there's a story there is a story behind [TS]

  the only one that's not available for [TS]

  sex is the mentally handicapped one [TS]

  because him being sexually attracted [TS]

  there would be too creepy [TS]

  I don't know if she's mentally [TS]

  handicapped well you know I mean I think [TS]

  your brain is broken [TS]

  yeah but she I assume she's a neighbor [TS]

  who went into yahoo and that was that [TS]

  was my just clearly not so it's not [TS]

  appropriate for couples to be telling us [TS]

  that love who I caught a glimpse of her [TS]

  leg in this sexy drag that she was [TS]

  wearing up from the sewers you know it's [TS]

  not but every other every other woman we [TS]

  hear that about [TS]

  he sets up his friend for one of them [TS]

  know to be yeah there's music there's a [TS]

  couple other girls in the series you [TS]

  love any girl who he who isn't described [TS]

  in terms of how they are attractive to [TS]

  the male's accepted because except the [TS]

  grill there's the there's the other girl [TS]

  got a feeling she's always always [TS]

  describe how beautiful she is and how [TS]

  are ya tractor dark Debbie same deal [TS]

  very attractive sexy girl was flirting [TS]

  over their desk arguing over money [TS]

  Dennis certainly like that's that's the [TS]

  thing with coats [TS]

  I don't know I thought is it just a [TS]

  hound dog what can you say what I feel [TS]

  like it's flirting all in different ways [TS]

  though because i wouldn't call i [TS]

  wouldn't call the Fela flirting the same [TS]

  on the same level as the Debbie flirting [TS]

  or on the same level as the ferroli [TS]

  including every possible type of [TS]

  learning well but I'm just saying the [TS]

  the fact that they're different like you [TS]

  read you read juvenile books bye bye [TS]

  guys who are you know clearly a little [TS]

  bit sex craved or putting funneling us [TS]

  it's an obsession into that and you get [TS]

  all the female [TS]

  it wasn't there were no female [TS]

  characters intelligent but yeah I'm just [TS]

  saying like when you read it when you [TS]

  read a book by an author who is clearly [TS]

  a little sex-crazed all of the women [TS]

  come across the exact same way so it's [TS]

  all like all of all the women you know [TS]

  our sexy for this exact same reason you [TS]

  always hear legs come up benefiting [TS]

  robert jordan yes Robert Jordan is a [TS]

  perfect example if you want an author [TS]

  who is terrible at women robert jordan [TS]

  terry terry goodkind is another perfect [TS]

  example of this where it's just to all [TS]

  of the all of the women have very [TS]

  similar yeah all the women have very [TS]

  similarly descriptive characteristics [TS]

  and the thing that I find interesting [TS]

  about this is yes Dana is completely [TS]

  wonder she's one-dimensional she's [TS]

  two-dimensional she's floating and [TS]

  whatever but could both says hey that he [TS]

  puts her up on a pedestal at the very [TS]

  beginning with a book he says this is [TS]

  the girl that was completely unreachable [TS]

  and this is why and it wasn't like he [TS]

  doesn't go just she's unreachable [TS]

  because she's pretty [TS]

  it's very much like this she is this [TS]

  unknowable object and literally [TS]

  unreachable [TS]

  yes effort for months at a time doesn't [TS]

  it cellphone store like magic magic [TS]

  cellphone have magic and they can't have [TS]

  magic phones he's gonna he's gonna [TS]

  artifice 18 I think you can make one in [TS]

  the fishery in about a month right now [TS]

  she's writing her own Queen Killer [TS]

  chronicles yeah exactly [TS]

  well I fascinating i would be relaxed [TS]

  that's one of the things that word cloud [TS]

  my thought was a really funny theory [TS]

  which is that he is obsessed with [TS]

  finding the champion and the charians [TS]

  hey opposition is this other group that [TS]

  is the mirror your idea mirror so what [TS]

  so what if she's obsessed with finding [TS]

  me a mirror and they're working like the [TS]

  opposite side of the same case this [TS]

  entire time and different did anyone [TS]

  assumed that her her patron was one of [TS]

  the Chandra and I mean oh yeah kind of [TS]

  more ideas maybe the guy he's playing [TS]

  the board game with two yeah yeah [TS]

  mm but who knows I mean that could be [TS]

  the that's just a lot of the economy of [TS]

  characters talking there which is her [TS]

  perhaps we've seen her patron and we [TS]

  already know who he is it was the guy [TS]

  who is playing chess with i'm going to [TS]

  call cheat on that because that [TS]

  character like you have to put in [TS]

  something that makes a suspected that [TS]

  guy was a hundred percent straight-up [TS]

  he's especially is a good guy and [TS]

  and that's what makes me suspect its [TS]

  batteries you know what I mean he's yeah [TS]

  it doesn't see it doesn't seem like that [TS]

  kind of book doesn't seem like the kind [TS]

  of book worries like pulling like that's [TS]

  like a new uniforms room murder where [TS]

  you make like the one guy who didn't [TS]

  expect it's the priest has been friendly [TS]

  the whole time lots of cheap move you [TS]

  know what I mean yeah I mean I feel like [TS]

  there are no new characters introduced [TS]

  this book all the time that i don't i [TS]

  feel like it's definitely somebody we've [TS]

  heard of before but I don't I don't [TS]

  necessarily feel like if somebody yeah [TS]

  somebody could both knows well one of [TS]

  the Chandra and could be absolutely be [TS]

  the case i love that though I i do love [TS]

  the fact that there is this super scary [TS]

  band of supernatural creatures where if [TS]

  you if you speak about them a little too [TS]

  much they will come and kill you because [TS]

  they don't want to be known as the bad [TS]

  of them for not being known really well [TS]

  what was your reason to kill everybody [TS]

  well because everything kill everybody [TS]

  so they just wiped off the map so nobody [TS]

  even associated oh my god those people [TS]

  died I don't know who did it we're [TS]

  talking again [TS]

  I mean the whole book is surrounded [TS]

  around the the concept of names and [TS]

  stories and that kind of so it makes [TS]

  perfect sense that you know nameservers [TS]

  stories are dangerous means that the [TS]

  most dangerous thing i mean i love that [TS]

  that everybody does to ride this whole [TS]

  thing about him being like you're you're [TS]

  searching for fairy tales right like [TS]

  that was always you know kind of [TS]

  interesting is our date but they accept [TS]

  every other movie is very specifically a [TS]

  ridiculous has come on [TS]

  well it's you know even in a magical [TS]

  world you've got to have limits right [TS]

  you've got to have you've got to have [TS]

  the high-end that that's not actually [TS]

  going to happen is beyond the pale [TS]

  yeah exactly so do we like this book [TS]

  actually i cani cani list of all the [TS]

  things i like about it but i do like a [TS]

  bunch of things i'm not at all right [TS]

  let's do that [TS]

  whoo not real genius Jason I like the [TS]

  women characters that I like the the the [TS]

  shipwreck [TS]

  yeah it's resetting shipwrecked not so I [TS]

  like almost all the many settings that [TS]

  they put everything in the little stuff [TS]

  like a dragon hunt in the last one right [TS]

  which is well i didn't i didn't like [TS]

  that but the dragon the Severn I like [TS]

  that whole setup that was fun them in [TS]

  we left it before it got to be boring or [TS]

  stupid that the Adem and admir and Tempe [TS]

  and the whole talking with gestures and [TS]

  hit that character that character in [TS]

  particular is one of my favorite [TS]

  characters he was interesting and [TS]

  strange and in the beginning you thought [TS]

  he was quite mysterious guy but he gets [TS]

  back to the village realize he's just [TS]

  kind of like a lowly runt of the litter [TS]

  and he really shouldn't have done what [TS]

  he did I like those guys like that [TS]

  culture that was a funny little story [TS]

  there [TS]

  I like the thing in the tree that was a [TS]

  good idea that thing that knows all [TS]

  possible yeah and tries to cause the [TS]

  most harm based on info that's it like [TS]

  all these things are our basis of you [TS]

  can imagine like yours best fantasy and [TS]

  science fiction having a little stories [TS]

  in each one of these settings they'd all [TS]

  be good you know the tree I just for a [TS]

  second I what I love about the tree is [TS]

  that it is completely consistent with [TS]

  the the kind of many worlds idea that [TS]

  that the tree sees all the possible [TS]

  things and knows that if it says certain [TS]

  words those only appear in this eventual [TS]

  outcome so it says those words which is [TS]

  just wow what a crazy idea and you can [TS]

  see why nobody would want to listen to [TS]

  it and why it would be really evil [TS]

  anybody in the face around but even [TS]

  they're scared of it's like you don't [TS]

  even don't even go there don't even talk [TS]

  don't do not engage with that thing [TS]

  whose name I can't pronounce right [TS]

  don't talk to the tree and then there's [TS]

  also the tree and terms of the parallels [TS]

  the tree with the ATM where there's the [TS]

  tree that has the like the sword will [TS]

  stand ya ya crazy so all those little [TS]

  settings i like the sword where you have [TS]

  to memorize the entire history out yes [TS]

  every prior owner there's so many that's [TS]

  that's what it makes you want to read [TS]

  these books ever there's so many those [TS]

  little touches a good sorry Bob rich so [TS]

  many little things in there it's just [TS]

  they do not hold together into a [TS]

  cohesive hold it's a story that i think [TS]

  is going to be successful but all little [TS]

  pieces I like chronicles you know it's [TS]

  like it's like a good book exploded and [TS]

  these are the pieces and I particularly [TS]

  think Martin Martin wow this is little [TS]

  piece like this one shiny boy but you [TS]

  have deployed of the book is that he is [TS]

  telling how he became a legend so he's [TS]

  telling all these little stories because [TS]

  all these little stories are how legends [TS]

  are you know that's how our culture [TS]

  deals with the story search the group of [TS]

  stories that stand alone [TS]

  and they're super cool and then they get [TS]

  you know exaggerated throughout the time [TS]

  and then suddenly he is all-powerful [TS]

  when he's really just a guy who's kind [TS]

  of collapsing under the pressure of the [TS]

  legend that he kind of helped create and [TS]

  the people who don't know how you [TS]

  reproduce that i can draw the line on [TS]

  that when I was like come on people [TS]

  I think everyone figures out of [TS]

  reproduction marks if you don't figure [TS]

  out a reproduction works [TS]

  you are not successful as a society as a [TS]

  people [TS]

  you figured you did something people [TS]

  figure out I'm sorry homunculus it's a [TS]

  it's a fantasy book maybe it doesn't [TS]

  work that way mrs. Jarrow i love the [TS]

  fact though that they're very insistent [TS]

  on it because it does it just puts that [TS]

  point that you need to maybe reexamine [TS]

  your maybe it will wait a second is that [TS]

  just my culture who thinks that I mean [TS]

  obviously not but it's such a funny [TS]

  moment of like but no yourself only [TS]

  there were some experiment we could run [TS]

  to you yes well maybe we had the means [TS]

  the scientific method to figure out this [TS]

  eternal mystery but they don't they live [TS]

  they live in the rocks they don't have [TS]

  any of value they live in rocks or was [TS]

  it was exciting to hear it was like man [TS]

  mommies or something i forget what the [TS]

  slang term was for you believe in it was [TS]

  a mister mister mom's you believe [TS]

  Michael Michael Keaton's you believe it [TS]

  oh so we purchased second miss what else [TS]

  what else John anything hot and i think [TS]

  that's it for all the things that i like [TS]

  that it be [TS]

  yeah but that's basically no but I i [TS]

  agree with you completely that the the [TS]

  thing as much as i mock these [TS]

  regressions inside digressions lot of [TS]

  the aggressions were really fun and and [TS]

  and rich and and enjoyable on the on [TS]

  their own pull apart even if the larger [TS]

  thing I'm will wait wait a second are we [TS]

  ever gonna get back to all this other [TS]

  stuff that's going on where you want to [TS]

  do you want to get back yeah just hang [TS]

  out here and can't wait till we see den [TS]

  again [TS]

  no yeah that's where it's all unrequited [TS]

  an awkward I'd forgotten she exists and [TS]

  now we're back and looking for her and [TS]

  Severn loan it's like just come come on [TS]

  tell me who you're but what who your [TS]

  patron is no answer [TS]

  he's got no la now got like a suppliant [TS]

  I cannot tell you who my patron is oh [TS]

  but I love you but but no but I can't [TS]

  tell you because the polygonal your [TS]

  understatement [TS]

  now I have to go kill a dragon [TS]

  and I could take the dragon yeah my [TS]

  absolute favorite parts about this book [TS]

  are well two things 1i love the fact [TS]

  that these are you know to almost [TS]

  thousand-page books and what this one is [TS]

  a thousand pages i think we're 994 pages [TS]

  that don't feel like thousand-page books [TS]

  i read each of these i read them [TS]

  back-to-back because I happened to pick [TS]

  up a name of the wind after wise man's [TS]

  fear would come out and I read those [TS]

  back-to-back in two days just because no [TS]

  just the clothes [TS]

  yes i know it say I didn't have day [TS]

  three and it drove me insane [TS]

  we're at a tavern I was at the tavern of [TS]

  my apple pie and cider the tavern of my [TS]

  room I think you know what's what's most [TS]

  impressive about that though really is [TS]

  the amount of mocking before you read [TS]

  those [TS]

  yes when when other people are reading [TS]

  those books just just that I i was i was [TS]

  mocking these books i was mocking these [TS]

  books because dan was rereading and [TS]

  gloating does not become you mr. know i [TS]

  was curious I was like oh yeah well i [TS]

  was looking over her shoulder it's like [TS]

  oh weird magic words and they're [TS]

  traveling i have read this but are there [TS]

  more true so yeah you should have [TS]

  continued marketing business for all [TS]

  valid mocks me they are they are valid [TS]

  marks but you know what it's an [TS]

  incredibly well-written book and it's [TS]

  not it is not incredibly well-written [TS]

  yes yes yes I was John that's what's [TS]

  giving you coming back if anything it's [TS]

  the writing I mean in the parts that you [TS]

  enjoy it was poorly written and when I [TS]

  don't know probably was party wouldn't [TS]

  hold together structure of the sentences [TS]

  and stuff like that like it's competent [TS]

  and the idiosyncrasies are charming [TS]

  instead of irritating for the most part [TS]

  but i think we call that good writing [TS]

  yeah I you know what I'm not saying it's [TS]

  Hemingway I'm just saying it's you know [TS]

  it's not having what if you can write a [TS]

  thousand-page book if it was poorly Rand [TS]

  and you wouldn't be coming back but this [TS]

  is this is the opposite of him it was [TS]

  not Cormac McCarthy yeah you can keep if [TS]

  you can keep me occupied for an entire [TS]

  day for a thousand-page book and make it [TS]

  feel like I've only read two hundred [TS]

  pages i count that is good ring it's [TS]

  it's a book limbus yes it's a paper and [TS]

  i will give you that it is paige Turner [TS]

  is not [TS]

  it's not citizen calibre page for [TS]

  everything ok kindle clicker also i mean [TS]

  i respect you that I really really [TS]

  respect his ability to work [TS]

  music into this and to work like 40 [TS]

  Lian's i am back dialogue and all of [TS]

  that it's it's really really interesting [TS]

  to see those those fields and those sort [TS]

  of things interweaving and the music [TS]

  stuff i mean coming from a classical [TS]

  music background and reading these books [TS]

  it's really really touching some of the [TS]

  things in here [TS]

  strike right at the core of people like [TS]

  especially me like as a musician I'm [TS]

  like yep i completely identify with what [TS]

  you're talking about [TS]

  and the way you're saying this is [TS]

  exactly how i feel and it's you know you [TS]

  don't find that all that often where [TS]

  someone can capture passion accurately [TS]

  on the page and I really that was really [TS]

  impressive i'm still going with my [TS]

  exploding book theory because it's like [TS]

  for example that little piece that piece [TS]

  of the music you know I recognize that [TS]

  as it was a good party even though i'm [TS]

  not a musical person as as a good part [TS]

  of the book there are many aspects of [TS]

  this that are exemplary I just don't [TS]

  think they all fit together into an [TS]

  overall really good book really good [TS]

  story to pay trying to because i love [TS]

  little nuggets and it's like I'm it's [TS]

  like a video game with is really cool [TS]

  you know maybe really cool boss battles [TS]

  are really cool levels here and there [TS]

  and there's lots of director in between [TS]

  when you're done it doesn't hold up and [TS]

  is like so as a cohesive whole story so [TS]

  even though I keep wanting to go through [TS]

  but I want to get to the night next [TS]

  interesting nugget I keep turning the [TS]

  pages and each of those each of those [TS]

  nuggets is good and they're good aspects [TS]

  of it i don't think i like the mix is [TS]

  right i don't think the formula don't [TS]

  think he's got it down yet [TS]

  you know you're a rat you're a rat in a [TS]

  maze John now looking for that next [TS]

  piece of GMO you know they're good [TS]

  pieces of cheese here and there you know [TS]

  exploded off of the large wheel of [TS]

  cheese most of its amazed and it is not [TS]

  a way to weigh 250 pages medicine got [TS]

  your veteran fantasy reader what do you [TS]

  think I completely disagree with John [TS]

  because i think that the the beauty of [TS]

  this this story is that it is so [TS]

  fragmented and kind of building up into [TS]

  this framing story which I know I keep [TS]

  repeating this but I think that's the [TS]

  the whole thing is about storytelling [TS]

  and [TS]

  how you know these different things are [TS]

  going to weave together to form this [TS]

  legend of this guy and I think it's [TS]

  built like I could be sorely [TS]

  disappointed because I am assuming that [TS]

  it's going to build up to something in [TS]

  book 3 and something will happen but if [TS]

  it doesn't then i will agree with John [TS]

  retroactive with high- assuming the [TS]

  explanation book 3 will be disappointed [TS]

  and I can't believe Scott isn't also [TS]

  assuming that as my fellow passive we [TS]

  have an optimist and is optimist aren't [TS]

  you just assuming whatever the [TS]

  explanation I haven't booked three it's [TS]

  going to be disappointing for you know [TS]

  there's no there's no way they can [TS]

  explain anything to build up to the hype [TS]

  they have over at the two brothers john [TS]

  says the glass is half empty [TS]

  Scott's as half-full I say it's got half [TS]

  as much stuff as it contains exactly [TS]

  I i have faith in I think that he [TS]

  process is a very good storyteller and I [TS]

  have a feeling that he will have a [TS]

  satisfying conclusion and I appreciate [TS]

  that it will only be three books so even [TS]

  if it isn't that satisfying it didn't [TS]

  take that long to read them is a good [TS]

  short story teller don't have a good [TS]

  novelist that's a good short stories in [TS]

  that last novel alright damn red you [TS]

  have things to say about I mean it [TS]

  sounds it sounds like reading your very [TS]

  positive about it i'm very positive [TS]

  about it was it's the first series i've [TS]

  read in a while that made me really [TS]

  excited to start reading fantasy books [TS]

  again and that's that is a hard thing to [TS]

  do [TS]

  yes what about you damn i actually [TS]

  really like I agree a lot with Scott [TS]

  because he's smart but you know how it [TS]

  pains me and so I I know but I i think [TS]

  we talked about this a little bit in the [TS]

  name of the wind podcast about the idea [TS]

  of this being a book more about [TS]

  storytelling and I think you know that's [TS]

  a subject that happens we really [TS]

  interesting to me and perhaps that's why [TS]

  I found it so entertaining and enjoyable [TS]

  that sort of meta aspect of well what is [TS]

  a fantasy legend right we have so many [TS]

  books that are about these [TS]

  larger-than-life heroes and the [TS]

  adventures they go on and so it's kind [TS]

  of interesting to have them be you know [TS]

  that flipped on their head to a certain [TS]

  extent and be like yes they're all these [TS]

  stories but we are hearing them through [TS]

  this person's point of view and for you [TS]

  know this person basically appears to be [TS]

  you know a bartender [TS]

  yeah there's some there's some [TS]

  interesting contradiction is going you [TS]

  know on an errand and again like Scott I [TS]

  think you know the third book if we're [TS]

  building to an end here then it [TS]

  hopefully it pays off on all the stuff [TS]

  that we've sort of had put out there and [TS]

  I I'd certainly and enjoyed the first [TS]

  two and look forward to reading the [TS]

  third one [TS]

  Jason how do you feel about these books [TS]

  aah SI not a regular fantasy writer you [TS]

  know I i enjoyed them [TS]

  I i I'm kind of in the middle in that I [TS]

  i agree that I a lot of this is about [TS]

  storytelling and the framing story is [TS]

  important because he's building his own [TS]

  legend in his own way and so there may [TS]

  be some level of not necessarily [TS]

  unreliability but he chooses the stories [TS]

  he tells and and I think that's [TS]

  interesting i like the richness of the [TS]

  world and the fact that he does seem to [TS]

  be planting seeds of of stuff early on [TS]

  that in hindsight or if you go and read [TS]

  a blog on the internet you can see he [TS]

  knows what was happening in the second [TS]

  book in the first book and so it's [TS]

  internally consistent which I like I [TS]

  also shared John's feeling that there [TS]

  are there are times when I thought yes [TS]

  the individual moments hold together [TS]

  better than the book as a whole and that [TS]

  it's a little bit you know chamblee and [TS]

  and rambly and and and messy and it [TS]

  would make me laugh saying that were [TS]

  five digression is down but uh but that [TS]

  I i do think that he's got a you know [TS]

  he's got a lot of skill on display and [TS]

  my concern though is is that job I [TS]

  worried that John may be right i think [TS]

  i've got some hope that that this will [TS]

  come off but it is you know the [TS]

  University stuff does feel like we we we [TS]

  already have a lot of that we're getting [TS]

  it again and you know i'm not entirely [TS]

  sure if the if the overarching story is [TS]

  maybe a little too messy and not [TS]

  progressing as fast as maybe I prefer [TS]

  but you know i'm enjoying the moments [TS]

  and I'm enjoying the richness of it and [TS]

  so I'm willing to take the ride even if [TS]

  if it ever got some concerns about [TS]

  about some of the details so you know I [TS]

  i agree with everybody everybody's right [TS]

  god bless us everyone [TS]

  now I think we all agree they were all [TS]

  when the third book comes out we'll all [TS]

  read it like even though i said all [TS]

  these bad things about it like it keep I [TS]

  keeps me reading because i want those [TS]

  fun little parts and I'm not offended by [TS]

  him too i just think alike but jason [TS]

  said is true i think he has lots of raw [TS]

  talent he just doesn't know how to [TS]

  harness it yet in my opinion it doesn't [TS]

  mean that the book is not worth reading [TS]

  it just means that i can given his [TS]

  talent and these things these little [TS]

  things that he's made I can envision a [TS]

  better book than what he's written if he [TS]

  could have that the same town focused [TS]

  more into into a hole like he hasn't [TS]

  quite figured that out yet i think i [TS]

  think that he is trying to tell a [TS]

  destroyed story though and that's that's [TS]

  what i have been doing that I know I [TS]

  know what you're saying I know the thing [TS]

  you're describing I wish I could [TS]

  remember there was some story right [TS]

  there is very similar to this of a guy [TS]

  telling about legend of itself with that [TS]

  going forward and back and maybe there's [TS]

  been several of them that's why i can't [TS]

  remember it [TS]

  I if he's going for that he could pull [TS]

  that off better than he's doing here [TS]

  I i'm not sure i'd rather read that [TS]

  story then a different one with the same [TS]

  guy but like it's I I just think he's [TS]

  got a lot of raw talent and it's the [TS]

  farthest first books like this first in [TS]

  a second book [TS]

  yeah I think that kind of shows and [TS]

  again being a big Stephen King fan he's [TS]

  I he's the author was most books that I [TS]

  think about every single thing Steven [TS]

  can get similar problems he was a young [TS]

  author where he had some raw talent but [TS]

  he was just kind of a mess right and it [TS]

  took just years and years and many many [TS]

  books for him to just figure it out and [TS]

  push it together and I get that vibe i [TS]

  think Patrick Rothfuss is better in his [TS]

  first two novels and Stephen King was in [TS]

  his first you know several of them so [TS]

  he's got stuff I have to say John I I'm [TS]

  sorry to do this it's not as if Stephen [TS]

  King is one of your favorite movies from [TS]

  the 80s but i will say you know rafas is [TS]

  way better [TS]

  stylistically as a rather than early [TS]

  books true but Stephen King does get his [TS]

  now together around i like i like [TS]

  stephen king but what what his books [TS]

  lack that I think I see in the patrick [TS]

  rothfuss stuff is just a tie I like the [TS]

  style i think that Stephen King has [TS]

  always been somebody who's got a style [TS]

  but his voice sounds the same in every [TS]

  book and [TS]

  and I know he's got a lot of things i'm [TS]

  not trying to slag on on Stephen King [TS]

  here i'm just saying that I don't I [TS]

  rothfuss bring some stuff to the table [TS]

  that I think Stephen King doesn't but I [TS]

  think you're right in the sense that [TS]

  stephen king is very good at [TS]

  constructing his books in a way that I'm [TS]

  not sure Patrick Rothfuss has got that's [TS]

  mostly what I'm getting at is stephen [TS]

  king is with workmanlike I'm not holding [TS]

  out as a great author but he really did [TS]

  figure out from his early stories where [TS]

  he was and knows how to tell stories how [TS]

  to tell scary and 22 his later start [TS]

  like at his turning point thinking this [TS]

  is obscure be unless you're sixteen [TS]

  kingdom but the book bag of bones which [TS]

  was not a very good book and not one of [TS]

  my favorites but I'd noted that when i [TS]

  was reading it as a turning point in his [TS]

  writing where he actually finally had a [TS]

  little tiny bit of style chops on [TS]

  display and ruthless does have more [TS]

  style than steaming and probably ever [TS]

  will but it's just so loose and on [TS]

  unencumbered by anything whereas Stephen [TS]

  King was messy and disorganized and bad [TS]

  writing and he finally got a little bit [TS]

  of style around bag of bones which [TS]

  nobody read and then afterwards you sort [TS]

  of pulled it together but yeah he did [TS]

  Stephen King is work he works the [TS]

  formula and you know what you're gonna [TS]

  get when you read one of his books but [TS]

  it's solid it's every one of his stories [TS]

  later ones after that are just [TS]

  constructed solidly almost like a [TS]

  Hollywood movie only ten times longer [TS]

  now write it up right all right well [TS]

  this is gonna be the longest book club [TS]

  podcast we've ever done but it's almost [TS]

  about is the equivalent of about 10,000 [TS]

  pages will soothe yeah war 1 2015 oh [TS]

  thank you bring it back around I do [TS]

  yeah yeah I i don't i don't regret right [TS]

  reading either of these series that's [TS]

  good that's our new bra write books [TS]

  you're done you want those moments of [TS]

  your life back now we have a we should [TS]

  have our podcast later about you know [TS]

  books we regret like oh yeah that's on [TS]

  the left is one of those that's why [TS]

  maybe reading one area that's the [TS]

  problem ya series though because when [TS]

  with unfinished serious because then you [TS]

  get to the last book and you can [TS]

  retroactively Lee regret reading [TS]

  everything business last book just is [TS]

  completely crap [TS]

  excellent yes know what i will do a [TS]

  podcast that is books authors or series [TS]

  that we regret or refused to read it [TS]

  basically will be the the the 60-minute [TS]

  hate oh i watch that on CBS 150 minutes [TS]

  a CSI hate ya SI hay [TS]

  alright well we've covered 2,000 pages [TS]

  worth it only took us two thousand [TS]

  minutes so until next time on the book [TS]

  club where our topic will be if you'd [TS]

  like to read ahead the a4 mentioned [TS]

  ready player one not we'll share some [TS]

  pages long shirt no very short quick [TS]

  read sure to be a lot to talk about [TS]

  about that and then we'll cart back in [TS]

  what you're reading as well because we [TS]

  didn't have time to read anything else [TS]

  you're reading 2,000 page long fantasy [TS]

  novels about about Mitch's whatever not [TS]

  going to talk about what's his facebook [TS]

  stream d know we might talk about Neal [TS]

  Stephenson to i gotta finish reading the [TS]

  allstate speaking of a thousand-page but [TS]

  that's what I'm really right gotta get [TS]

  to it and finish reading ready player [TS]

  one first off [TS]

  yeah I'm in the midst I know it's hard [TS]

  to it's hard to read [TS]

  I never learned to read i have hired a [TS]

  guy to read through that he summarizes [TS]

  it for you know he sounds like this [TS]

  yes it's damned or in fact I the Dan [TS]

  morons title soundboard i actually just [TS]

  use that voice when reading 2 j's he [TS]

  calls me and reads me a chapter a night [TS]

  before I go to bed [TS]

  it pays great guys mm that's why you [TS]

  have no time [TS]

  that's why I have a job yeah alright so [TS]

  until we return with the another edition [TS]

  of the book club i would like to thank [TS]

  my guest John siracusa thank you for [TS]

  being here and talking about the good [TS]

  and the bad of patrick rothfuss very [TS]

  welcome [TS]

  ren called well thank you for being here [TS]

  and talking about 2,000 pages worth of [TS]

  fantasy it's always a pleasure [TS]

  Scott mcnoltey i'm glad you were here to [TS]

  provide your traditional wit and [TS]

  perspective [TS]

  well thank you i feel like this was a [TS]

  good podcast that exploded [TS]

  well it was a podcast of exploded that's [TS]

  every leaving SS and leaving is evident [TS]

  arts that's right leaving good parts [TS]

  scattered around amidst the wreckage and [TS]

  Dan Morgan thank you for being here as [TS]

  you are on practically every part make [TS]

  it sound like I don't have a life no [TS]

  your consistency reading where a [TS]

  consistent bandit you're too busy that [TS]

  is the name of my marbles consistent too [TS]

  busy recording podcaster read books [TS]

  sadly i'm reading a book right now as we [TS]

  are automatically claims a lot it does I [TS]

  alright until next time I Jason Snelling [TS]

  for the uncomfortable thanks for [TS]

  listening to buy always read read kids [TS]

  reading is fundamental stand school [TS]

  [Music] [TS]