69: Love Conquers All, But So Do Guns
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the incomparable podcast number 69
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welcome back to the uncomfortable I am
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Jason smell your host we are convening
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another edition of the uncomfortable
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book club and yet again i believe this
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is our fourth thousand-page long book in
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fortunately our next book is stephen
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king's book about the Kennedy
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assassination in time travel which is
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like 20 pages right also a thousand-page
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oh god help anyway
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today we are going to talk about ream d
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which is how you pronounce it
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by the way we checked Neal Stephenson
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has a video where he calls it
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md it's really be its readme misspelled
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as Reedy by chinese hackers but we'll
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get to that Neal Stephenson's Ruby came
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out in September and we've all read it
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took us that long if you didn't read it
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don't why you want this podcast and if
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you don't want to know what happens in
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please don't listen to this podcast
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because we're going to tell you what
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happens we're going to talk about what
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happens in the book so joining me to
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talk about what happens in the book
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which is the purpose of a book club just
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getting out there are serenity Caldwell
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hello hi Jason it's just a check you've
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read the book right
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I have indeed read the book the whole
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book the entire book right to be a week
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maybe we can have that show off haha
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well no it's okay i'm taking like two
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months to finish cryptonomicon so all
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right well actually never ends you know
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that book just keeps going goes yeah
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it's really a lot into the first page
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and it's I think I'm glad other voice
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you just heard his kind fleischmann hi
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Glenn did you read the local oh I read
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this entire book right back
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I like it that's that's that things are
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looking up for the book club
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dan borin it also joins us Daniel I
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assume you read the whole book this time
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i read the book the whole book and
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nothing but the book it Oh Mike so help
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me God and Scott McNulty hello Scott
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know you always read the book I didn't
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read the book this time and I hope that
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there are no spoilers because i'm
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looking forward to read it it's about a
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detective in New York in the 19th
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so excited so windy
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I guess we should start by talking about
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how this is a you know Neal Stephenson
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is an interesting author he's written
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some cyberpunk kind of stuff like snow
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crash he wrote a very very sci-fi novel
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his last time out which was an M he's
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done action like in a zodiac which is
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actually a book like a lot he did
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historical kind of you know with a with
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a sci-fi flavor but historical fiction
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with a baroque cycle so he's he's been
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all over the place and yet despite that
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I was surprised at the content of reem d
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because it starts out feeling like it's
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going to be your sort of standard neal
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stephenson even though it's set in the
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present day which i think only
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cryptonomicon well now he's yeah so yeah
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mostly it's obviously an economic on
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maybe some of those other thrillers that
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he sort of pseudonymous Lee wrote right
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right but um it's so but it more or less
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still it's like you know it starts out a
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little bit like a almost like the cory
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doctorow book about for the wind after
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the wind right which is about about gold
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farmers in a in a massively multiplayer
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game right you have the two of them
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apparently had some conversation where
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Cory said Cory was assessment for the
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wind and Neal said something like
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reading about gold farming and they both
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cackle door something so you're going to
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round up i think reading their books
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nearly simultaneously independent so my
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theory is that is that uh Neal
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Stephenson discovered what cory doctorow
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is writing about 500 pages in and said
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oh well then let's change what my book
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is about let's take a sharp left turn
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listen I i want to make a point at the
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outset that because what you're going
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through about genre is i think i got 300
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pages into this behemoth before I
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actually understood that there was going
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to be no contra factual hypothetical
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particles or anything else and sort of
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the science fictional elements yeah I
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really it had because it has all the
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tropes and feels of that terrain and is
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extrapolation of the the most massively
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multiplayer online game culture rain
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which is the which is the invented more
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or less arco invented by by Richard
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fourth rescue is one of the main
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characters in the book it's not World of
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Warcraft right but it is like it and
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it's sort of the it's played a sort of
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the next evolution of that so there's a
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little bit of speculation in there but
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really it's it's our world although with
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Stevenson's traditional attention to
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detail that extrapolation is i would say
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hell of a lot better than ernest cline
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xin in ready player one in terms of what
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the Oasis is versus terrain is much you
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know i think is much more grounded
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there's a good hundred pages devoted to
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exactly what the terrain of the world is
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thank you yaso so too
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there's so much here because there's a
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thousand pages and that's why this
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podcast will last for a thousand hours
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or maybe not but but I want to go back
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to so there isn't one is right it is i
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was surprised on the one hand that
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there's nothing you know counterfactual
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there's nothing that seems like it
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couldn't happen today which i think is
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interesting and then and then despite
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Stephenson having all these different
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genres that he's played in i was really
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surprised at the turn he took because we
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end up in the last half of this book in
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basically an action movie which is its
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well I think it's well done but it is
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funny because it's not what I expect
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from Neil Stephens now I don't know what
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I expected I guess I expected something
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less common and maybe a a weirder you
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know less common kind of genre instead
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of like guys with guns fighting other
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guys with guns but that's what we got
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I was surprised that certain most of
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neal stephenson's books he's kind of
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famous for going on tangents that are
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enjoyable to read but you really lasts a
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couple hundred pages and yeah like I'm
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not sure what's going on in this book he
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seems to have decided at one point okay
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i'm going to get rid of everything
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extraneous it's going to be all plot for
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400 pages and as I am I going to like it
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put that in your pipe and smoke it but
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what I found really interesting along
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those lines is also that like you start
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out not only do you start thinking the
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plots going in one direction but there
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are certain characters that you start
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out thinking okay this gets pretty
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important and then you know some of
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those characters don't make it all the
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way through the book but like so like
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solace solace boyfriend right
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oh he was pegged for death let's be fair
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yeah but on the flip side there are
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other characters you think are totally
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like extraneous right like I mean like
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yes it's so cool officer or I love III
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thought even I thought even Abdallah
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Jones of course who is sort of caught
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topless in this random you know we'll go
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through the plot i'm sure a little bit
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he's sort of seems like a threat like a
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random character to encounter like he's
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there is a plot device right and then he
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turns into this hugely important major
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character throughout the rest of the
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book it's like a relay race though is
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like they're running this isn't this is
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like an ultramarathon and their
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characters are running running and only
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a few of them like zula for instance
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makes the way all the way through it and
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make an excellent review
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yeah Peter hands off to Abdullah
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Abdullah becomes that takes up that
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missing character position you know it's
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really ok here we go well now we got
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zulu natal Ivanovic sort of starts off
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as being kind of important and then you
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know he's he dies going
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marlin and I do know your name to the
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who said something about characters who
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are so significant and then is willing
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to to murder their darlings you know he
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sets up these from Yvonne is a great
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character and gets crazier and crazier
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and then he is called and maybe it's a
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whole new bill he exits on a high note
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you don't want to be mean you can't get
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any crazier than that certain level of
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crazy for a while
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what I really like about ream d is
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actually I can't compare it to lost in a
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way except it's lost except everything
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comes together at the end but makes a
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lot of sense because you have these
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pages upon pages of these various
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characters backstory you get a character
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Olivia that's introduced to the middle
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of the book for you know you're like
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okay where did she come from she is not
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been mentioned at all previous to this
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and you just have to be patient and
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trust that she's going to get woven into
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the story appropriately and she does
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that I think happens with most of these
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oh yeah then you end up with you know
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Sheamus Costello later on
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who's sort of you know comes up like 710
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yeah i would order the characters that
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are introduced later in the book are
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better than only all but a handful of
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ones that you meet near the outset like
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the characterizations get more
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interesting by and the and the uh you
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know the military man I mean they're
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they're good kind of archetypes to yeah
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well i mean but i loved for example i
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love the duality in the this whole thing
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sort of starts off the beginning and
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kinda gets under woman between the two
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writers Donald and Devin you know I'm so
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that part it is but it makes know if
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they're really like you kept expecting
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that to go in more of a direction
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wait a second i just realized i think he
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did something to us since we've only had
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the opportunity in our lives and may
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never have a chance to read this entire
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book again because we have jobs and
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things it's possible that if you go back
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and read the book closely that the two
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riders approach to fiction is actually
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mirror two elements the book as you said
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that I realized oh he might be playing
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with us and the two writers are actually
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contending through the plot of the book
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some things that are implausible and
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follow one path and something follow
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another it's possible but now we have to
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read the book a couple more times so I
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mean that's an interesting reading of it
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i think that somebody could go back and
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no I mean but I i think there is a yeah
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there's an interesting reason there with
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the tensions of like you know sort of
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popcorn me plot vs I think that's more
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ground date and those are sort of two
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things that are clearly a war with
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Stevenson himself in this book that's a
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good catch going honda that's very very
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good because you've got you've got just
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to touch on this for a second
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you've got d squared who is this
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completely just arrogant a Cambridge
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dawn who is writes a I guess limited
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amount of fantasy but it's incredibly
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impeccably researched and Tolkien right
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yeah and then you've got for catalytic
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or don't just look brings them out and
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he's a fantasy not and it it is an
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internally consistent and he just cranks
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out book and george george RR martin of
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course no 26 year I meri teri about
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quantity alright i'm sorry you know it's
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the quantity and the sort of all right
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yeah you got this very easy he's not
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here after speed notice george RR martin
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has more consistency know he is a he is
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to see novelist like a like a 1 terry
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brooks or uh honorary salvatori ok there
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you know I mean the guy is like the guys
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who write like the D&D books right like
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the novelization of all that and just
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crank those suckers out the level above
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admit he's making real money so that's
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part of making real money but he's not
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necessarily be putting your great i'm
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not sure he's not being real money until
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he until Easter with to raising its your
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right right yeah he's making it up in
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volume i can see the point but he
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popularizing the the all the ideas that
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the the dawn has he's the one who kind
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of popularizers that makes it accessible
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and it is it is a part of the success so
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we're going to take Glenn's idea about
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these two warring parts of you know
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maybe it's an evil neal stephenson's
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mind it's also interesting because
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because the offer all of the highfalutin
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this of the dawn the fact is it's the
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it's the other guy who makes it all
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successful even though he breaks some of
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the things that are in and and was back
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in right he has to come back in and fit
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everything in the end right one there's
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the Apostle pakka lips which has thank
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you for what is to come forward green
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that that was pretty good
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that entire section of the book where
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they're just like know all of these
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words have no adequate molecule meetings
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and they often be rewritten and anywhere
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that's your hundred-page digression
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although it does serve as a plot purpose
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because the idea is that there's this
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kind of war of the war the war
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yeah of the different colors yeah I want
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to come back to that we get the point
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the plot because i have some issues with
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it but well it's it's a fascinating
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it's a fascinating digression now but
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it's also somewhat the catalyst for for
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a lot of this true enemy and mirrors yes
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so structurally eat how this so there's
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so much here there's too much
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let us let us sum up so the plot here is
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I think you can summarize it it's
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actually a very simple plot right is
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there's of itself it's a story of a
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family and some people in it and in the
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end the family comes back there is an
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overarching thing about the fourth rest
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family I really might open actually i
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love i have that it starts i love that
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we're thanksgiving and it's this guy
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who's like kind of on the outs with his
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family and you don't know why and it
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turns out it's because he left home and
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became successful but but in a sort of a
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questionable way it and you know it's
[TS]
◼
►
just it's fascinating and then there's
[TS]
◼
►
the his niece who is also kind of an
[TS]
◼
►
outsider and the texture of that like
[TS]
◼
►
the mud out because they're out in in
[TS]
◼
►
like Missouri right and now it's a Iowa
[TS]
◼
►
Iowa alright so there in the Midwest and
[TS]
◼
►
it's and it's cold and it's muddy and
[TS]
◼
►
they're shooting at cans and bottles and
[TS]
◼
►
stuff after a while the Thanksgiving
[TS]
◼
►
dessert is being served or something and
[TS]
◼
►
it's just I love the texture of it and I
[TS]
◼
►
thought you know what this is not what I
[TS]
◼
►
expected from you'll see even somebody
[TS]
◼
►
gonna go with it because i really
[TS]
◼
►
enjoyed that part of it well so that the
[TS]
◼
►
story so he's I mean so here's the only
[TS]
◼
►
the very bare-bones one which is that he
[TS]
◼
►
and another follow developed a world of
[TS]
◼
►
warcraft like game he winds up hiring is
[TS]
◼
►
nice after meeting her at this gathering
[TS]
◼
►
she has a boyfriend who's kind of a
[TS]
◼
►
slightly asperger e idiot and needs to
[TS]
◼
►
raise some money fast because he's
[TS]
◼
►
overextended the real estate market gets
[TS]
◼
►
hooked up with Russian mafia a virus
[TS]
◼
►
infects machine destroy some of the
[TS]
◼
►
Russian mafias information and then you
[TS]
◼
►
wind up in this worldwide trip is that
[TS]
◼
►
people get carried along to China
[TS]
◼
►
because this crazy russian guy this sort
[TS]
◼
►
of mafioso wants to looks like his house
[TS]
◼
►
of cards is falling apart
[TS]
◼
►
he wants to track down the author of the
[TS]
◼
►
virus whose he decides to personally
[TS]
◼
►
blame for all these ills they wind up
[TS]
◼
►
that's how the whole first arc of the
[TS]
◼
►
story is getting to China figuring this
[TS]
◼
►
out tracking down the people who wrote
[TS]
◼
►
the rim d virus which infected the
[TS]
◼
►
Russian systems unintentionally and a
[TS]
◼
►
lot of other people stuff they get there
[TS]
◼
►
then you hand off to the next part
[TS]
◼
►
because they go in expecting to kill all
[TS]
◼
►
these room d virus writers these hackers
[TS]
◼
►
or Stewart holding data free ransom and
[TS]
◼
►
instead they run into a muslim terrorism
[TS]
◼
►
cell in China this industrial or
[TS]
◼
►
commercial City they wanted firing up
[TS]
◼
►
firing on that apartment full of Muslims
[TS]
◼
►
and Islamic terrorists who are planning
[TS]
◼
►
to blow stuff up and then you get the
[TS]
◼
►
handoff and so zula Richards nice
[TS]
◼
►
there's a programmer her boyfriends kill
[TS]
◼
►
the Russian mafioso is killed
[TS]
◼
►
Zula is handed off
[TS]
◼
►
to Abdullah Jones and then takes the
[TS]
◼
►
ball any runs where he goes he goes it
[TS]
◼
►
goes and they wound up traveling again
[TS]
◼
►
you know a large distances gets them out
[TS]
◼
►
of China eventually into Canada where
[TS]
◼
►
through a large series of adventures
[TS]
◼
►
they finally wind up crossing the border
[TS]
◼
►
through an area that Richard fourth rass
[TS]
◼
►
when he was a drug runner before you
[TS]
◼
►
started the video game company had
[TS]
◼
►
figured that was a way to avoid were
[TS]
◼
►
controlled by going through old mines
[TS]
◼
►
and meanwhile a British spy who's going
[TS]
◼
►
to involve the China tracks and they're
[TS]
◼
►
Richard tracks them down and Richards
[TS]
◼
►
family the rest of them wind up being
[TS]
◼
►
sort of exactly survivalists but
[TS]
◼
►
fundamentalist living on the other side
[TS]
◼
►
of this mining tunnel where it comes out
[TS]
◼
►
so you get Islam Islamic radicals
[TS]
◼
►
killing people across Canada joining
[TS]
◼
►
together crossing into America and
[TS]
◼
►
hitting the salt of the earth religious
[TS]
◼
►
fundamentalists for the big final
[TS]
◼
►
showdown what you think that's pretty
[TS]
◼
►
good pretty good though
[TS]
◼
►
that's pretty good friend to sort of the
[TS]
◼
►
main skills and apply its think there's
[TS]
◼
►
two sides of the first is like we learn
[TS]
◼
►
all about the video game we learn all
[TS]
◼
►
about the culture and whatever and
[TS]
◼
►
they're on their way to try and always
[TS]
◼
►
trying to stop in the second half is
[TS]
◼
►
essentially you know Muslim extremists
[TS]
◼
►
on the run terminating in this sort of
[TS]
◼
►
run across the border yet no that's
[TS]
◼
►
that's exactly it you've got you've got
[TS]
◼
►
half the book which is setting up the
[TS]
◼
►
the you know multiplayer universe and
[TS]
◼
►
the gold farmers in China and trying to
[TS]
◼
►
figure all that out and then the second
[TS]
◼
►
half is largely this action story
[TS]
◼
►
involving the terrorists in canada and
[TS]
◼
►
crossing the border and all of that it
[TS]
◼
►
turns out you need to know almost
[TS]
◼
►
nothing about the entire video game
[TS]
◼
►
backstory in order to understand the
[TS]
◼
►
second half of the book that pretty much
[TS]
◼
►
disappears after back-to-back yeah right
[TS]
◼
►
it becomes a communications tool later
[TS]
◼
►
as opposed to a plot point Walton and
[TS]
◼
►
not to mention you know hundreds of
[TS]
◼
►
pages there and there's literally
[TS]
◼
►
hundreds of pages where Richard who sort
[TS]
◼
►
of his setup as the main character in
[TS]
◼
►
the first you know hundred pages just
[TS]
◼
►
not there's no 40 years he goes away
[TS]
◼
►
yeah by the book might be about him and
[TS]
◼
►
I kept waiting for him to come back I'm
[TS]
◼
►
like that word where we're going to go
[TS]
◼
►
back to him right
[TS]
◼
►
I said it's it's like lost each
[TS]
◼
►
character has their section it's amazing
[TS]
◼
►
what kind of a head-fake an author can
[TS]
◼
►
give a reader in the sense that
[TS]
◼
►
we start at the very beginning of the
[TS]
◼
►
book with Richard fourth rest and then
[TS]
◼
►
by the end of that chapter zula and
[TS]
◼
►
Peter have pulled up and he's befriend
[TS]
◼
►
befriended them a little better said
[TS]
◼
►
hello to them and and and i think they
[TS]
◼
►
go somewhere and it's funny because
[TS]
◼
►
without that chapter
[TS]
◼
►
you could probably you would probably go
[TS]
◼
►
in assuming that zula is the main
[TS]
◼
►
character but he gives you this head
[TS]
◼
►
fake where he says no no this is richard
[TS]
◼
►
fourth-fastest that is the is the main
[TS]
◼
►
character here and he's not do list the
[TS]
◼
►
main characters her book is this is
[TS]
◼
►
really soon but absolutely Richard
[TS]
◼
►
bookends it is facilitating plot element
[TS]
◼
►
but it's and she's a great i think she's
[TS]
◼
►
a great character I mean she does things
[TS]
◼
►
that are extreme but not unrealistic you
[TS]
◼
►
can say I can't believe that aerotrain
[TS]
◼
►
refugee adopting America's our parents
[TS]
◼
►
adopted parents killed gone through all
[TS]
◼
►
this managed to get her in on and
[TS]
◼
►
whip-smart you can see her being that
[TS]
◼
►
resourceful it's not like you know the
[TS]
◼
►
girl her or something it's like it's a
[TS]
◼
►
real so i'm sticking up for Mythbusters
[TS]
◼
►
are it's it's things that somebody
[TS]
◼
►
pushed to extremist with capabilities
[TS]
◼
►
would do she just sort of just low-tech
[TS]
◼
►
smart things right and she gets a couple
[TS]
◼
►
of lucky breaks but he also just
[TS]
◼
►
realizes when there's an opportunity and
[TS]
◼
►
knows when attenuates for it yeah well
[TS]
◼
►
you have that nice section when they're
[TS]
◼
►
all trapped in the basement
[TS]
◼
►
they've this is at the point where
[TS]
◼
►
they've been locked to two chains and
[TS]
◼
►
the broth Russian mafia is going to to
[TS]
◼
►
go kill the Chinese hackers and the
[TS]
◼
►
she's trapped with two other hackers who
[TS]
◼
►
instantly take out lock-picking tools or
[TS]
◼
►
I guess she she gives great yeah she
[TS]
◼
►
gives him her Bobby their hair pins and
[TS]
◼
►
they instantly start lock kicking but
[TS]
◼
►
you notice she not being a hacker is not
[TS]
◼
►
well versed in the art of lock-picking
[TS]
◼
►
it does not spend her days idly
[TS]
◼
►
practicing so she actually has to wait
[TS]
◼
►
for them it's just a nice touch it's
[TS]
◼
►
like no not all three characters are
[TS]
◼
►
expert lock Pickers it's just the same
[TS]
◼
►
as a hobby certain people pick up right
[TS]
◼
►
well but the to the fact that she's
[TS]
◼
►
smart and does things like I mean the
[TS]
◼
►
one that got me was when she's locked in
[TS]
◼
►
the bathroom of the i rise in China and
[TS]
◼
►
she writes the long note and sticks it
[TS]
◼
►
in the drainpipe just thinking like hail
[TS]
◼
►
mary hey maybe somebody will find this
[TS]
◼
►
and I kind of felt like you know reading
[TS]
◼
►
reading in thinking and it sounds like
[TS]
◼
►
that's just kind of a throwaway plot
[TS]
◼
►
point and maybe someone will find it
[TS]
◼
►
like way way down the road or whatever
[TS]
◼
►
and then I sort of forgot about it and
[TS]
◼
►
then came back and actually made it
[TS]
◼
►
actually turns out to be important
[TS]
◼
►
i also got to say I think this book is
[TS]
◼
►
also Sokolov's as well like he's a
[TS]
◼
►
strong second player he cums in you
[TS]
◼
►
think at some of these Russian heavies
[TS]
◼
►
me totally stereotypical and he is
[TS]
◼
►
remarkably resourceful he's addy is
[TS]
◼
►
somehow a decent man even though his
[TS]
◼
►
former Spetsnaz not even though he kills
[TS]
◼
►
he has the keys the kind of guy that's
[TS]
◼
►
always in books of this sort he has a
[TS]
◼
►
kind of honor a co-designer whole yeah
[TS]
◼
►
something's obviously with the soul
[TS]
◼
►
yeah it's not exactly pretty goal
[TS]
◼
►
because he's doing things that are
[TS]
◼
►
logical and sensible his big problem he
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't kill people out of anger he
[TS]
◼
►
kills them out of necessity to protect
[TS]
◼
►
the client or protect himself and to
[TS]
◼
►
further the mission and he's and his
[TS]
◼
►
dynamic with ivana right where he's like
[TS]
◼
►
slowly certifying this guy pretty sure
[TS]
◼
►
that he's actually going crazy and
[TS]
◼
►
trying to like figure out how do we get
[TS]
◼
►
out of this situation because there's
[TS]
◼
►
the people above on of we're going to be
[TS]
◼
►
really pissed off when they find out
[TS]
◼
►
how are we going to get out of this
[TS]
◼
►
saves from three days of the Condor
[TS]
◼
►
moment in there where Sokolov's like
[TS]
◼
►
well they want me to go out to this ship
[TS]
◼
►
but this is not always goes they tell
[TS]
◼
►
you to go to the ship something goes
[TS]
◼
►
wrong they shoot you
[TS]
◼
►
she never know she never knows no Olivia
[TS]
◼
►
never knows what happened to me somethin
[TS]
◼
►
went wrong it's like I'm not going to do
[TS]
◼
►
the thing they tell me to do I thought
[TS]
◼
►
he was gonna die there
[TS]
◼
►
there is no way he was gonna die he he
[TS]
◼
►
yeah I know yeah the one hand you think
[TS]
◼
►
he's like oh he's too clever for that
[TS]
◼
►
but on the other hand you like I mean
[TS]
◼
►
people died in this book right and so it
[TS]
◼
►
would have been out of the question for
[TS]
◼
►
him to be like well he served his plot
[TS]
◼
►
purpose you know maybe he's gonna bite
[TS]
◼
►
it here he doesn't mean that's nice no
[TS]
◼
►
but it's nice to have that tension right
[TS]
◼
►
like there's too many too many like
[TS]
◼
►
action movies where it's like what this
[TS]
◼
►
is the hero he can't die obviously right
[TS]
◼
►
you know he's the protagonist we're
[TS]
◼
►
going to see him through all the way to
[TS]
◼
►
the end but whenever you know an author
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't mind killing off their
[TS]
◼
►
characters as we've seen several times
[TS]
◼
►
earlier in the book you you get a little
[TS]
◼
►
worried for the characters that you kind
[TS]
◼
►
of like right because you're not sure
[TS]
◼
►
they did easily they could kill them off
[TS]
◼
►
I can't believe nobody has mentioned
[TS]
◼
►
gore yeah I said I don't like this
[TS]
◼
►
pronouncement drunk or the Hungarian
[TS]
◼
►
Hungarian hacker rather lovely villa to
[TS]
◼
►
love Lord kilgorn he's loved Lord I like
[TS]
◼
►
all the secondary characters in this in
[TS]
◼
►
this wonderful look well I and then
[TS]
◼
►
chocolate is another good example of
[TS]
◼
►
somebody who's like kind of seems like
[TS]
◼
►
well as he comes in with the bad guys
[TS]
◼
►
maybe he's important maybe not and then
[TS]
◼
►
turns out to be another very major
[TS]
◼
►
character and i love i love the Triad
[TS]
◼
►
that he force with he forms with you she
[TS]
◼
►
and Marlon right like you know where
[TS]
◼
►
they're on the ship and they're likely
[TS]
◼
►
candidate the engineer and yeah i love i
[TS]
◼
►
love that sort of unlikely pairing the
[TS]
◼
►
deal is everybody is incredibly
[TS]
◼
►
pragmatic you notice that in this book
[TS]
◼
►
there are few insane people like
[TS]
◼
►
Abdullah Jones and and it off but
[TS]
◼
►
everybody else is like okay problem
[TS]
◼
►
happening how do I get out tonight huh
[TS]
◼
►
well you know moose and squirrel have
[TS]
◼
►
chosen scroll a bomb final logo want the
[TS]
◼
►
bomb how do I get out alive
[TS]
◼
►
I jumped through a window Abdul Jones
[TS]
◼
►
may be insane because he's a terrorist
[TS]
◼
►
but he is very practical as well right
[TS]
◼
►
here lyrics talking like he's one more
[TS]
◼
►
very smartly pregnant in fact he is so
[TS]
◼
►
business like that one of the things I
[TS]
◼
►
really enjoyed about his scenes where he
[TS]
◼
►
gathers the various the various guys
[TS]
◼
►
first company's initial crew and then
[TS]
◼
►
he's got the ones who are sort of like
[TS]
◼
►
the one of the terrorists and be
[TS]
◼
►
together like well I BTW if if they ever
[TS]
◼
►
call me I'm in Canada but if they ever
[TS]
◼
►
call me for a job I'm there knowing that
[TS]
◼
►
nobody's ever called him and then he
[TS]
◼
►
calls them into like oh okay all right
[TS]
◼
►
for the garage haha he's he's but he's
[TS]
◼
►
kind of like sociopathically charming
[TS]
◼
►
right like he's got net but he's
[TS]
◼
►
professional and what strikes me is that
[TS]
◼
►
some of the people he's working with or
[TS]
◼
►
not and you can sense a he he hates them
[TS]
◼
►
right just like they don't I got to use
[TS]
◼
►
the ladies like you got your lucky its
[TS]
◼
►
hard to find good help right I don't
[TS]
◼
►
know there's like Rapids B&C players
[TS]
◼
►
he's got the razor was killed with a CD
[TS]
◼
►
by the way but he's got right he's going
[TS]
◼
►
to make sure she's got yellow shirts
[TS]
◼
►
well I also likes I can't remember who
[TS]
◼
►
describes him as this I think it's
[TS]
◼
►
either a either Sheamus or Olivia but
[TS]
◼
►
someone points out that he's not likely
[TS]
◼
►
he's not a martyr right
[TS]
◼
►
he thinks he's too thinks he's too
[TS]
◼
►
valuable right you keep saying he'll
[TS]
◼
►
wait for them the right moment but it's
[TS]
◼
►
never the right moment you get the
[TS]
◼
►
impression he's kind of maybe kind of a
[TS]
◼
►
coward like it in deep inside and sort
[TS]
◼
►
of like thinks he's really smart but
[TS]
◼
►
he's also kind of untouchable and then
[TS]
◼
►
he sort of slowly sees his plans all
[TS]
◼
►
fall apart even though they're very
[TS]
◼
►
carefully laid and he's devoted all
[TS]
◼
►
these time to the men in one monkey
[TS]
◼
►
wrench in the plan and everything goes
[TS]
◼
►
to hell yeah you know what i would say
[TS]
◼
►
there's other arc of the story which is
[TS]
◼
►
that I think what I think one of the
[TS]
◼
►
things that I'm he's playing with his he
[TS]
◼
►
creates these remarkable like I would
[TS]
◼
►
argue in the past that used to have a
[TS]
◼
►
couple of good characters in a
[TS]
◼
►
Stephenson book and everyone else sort
[TS]
◼
►
of window dressing and it's everything
[TS]
◼
►
in the service of the plot and you know
[TS]
◼
►
there's a lot of movie mannequins around
[TS]
◼
►
in this he's developed only a few really
[TS]
◼
►
good simultaneous plots and a whole
[TS]
◼
►
bunch of really great characters and
[TS]
◼
►
sort of moves them all around the board
[TS]
◼
►
so sometimes you have things like the
[TS]
◼
►
video game being predominant and your
[TS]
◼
►
focus on very plot e sorts of things
[TS]
◼
►
understand the way of the world he's got
[TS]
◼
►
this whole thing going on we're trying
[TS]
◼
►
to the wharf realignment on the side and
[TS]
◼
►
then you've got all the stuff where it's
[TS]
◼
►
very strongly character-driven like this
[TS]
◼
►
is not how you would imagine someone
[TS]
◼
►
would write the scene but this is how
[TS]
◼
►
would probably play out like Azula and
[TS]
◼
►
Abdullah stuff where she actually
[TS]
◼
►
respects her because she's on her AGame
[TS]
◼
►
right she's somebody who if she were
[TS]
◼
►
inside he'd be absolutely pleased to
[TS]
◼
►
have you know working with him so one of
[TS]
◼
►
the things that are this that did remind
[TS]
◼
►
me of other neal stephenson stuff you
[TS]
◼
►
mentioned the boat there are there are
[TS]
◼
►
segments one of things i always liked
[TS]
◼
►
about him and especially the baroque
[TS]
◼
►
cycle is there there are segments of of
[TS]
◼
►
the books he writes that he willfully
[TS]
◼
►
commits to and that they they take on a
[TS]
◼
►
life of their own and they're not that
[TS]
◼
►
important to book and he could just move
[TS]
◼
►
things along and say you know suffice it
[TS]
◼
►
to say they were on a boat and a boat
[TS]
◼
►
scene struck me as that it's like it
[TS]
◼
►
suddenly we're in a totally different
[TS]
◼
►
book which is there are people and
[TS]
◼
►
they're stuck in a boat and they have no
[TS]
◼
►
gas and they're drifting in the South
[TS]
◼
►
China Sea and that none of them know how
[TS]
◼
►
to be on a boat and they don't know
[TS]
◼
►
and that was great and it's so you know
[TS]
◼
►
again that's like a whole very well
[TS]
◼
►
first off it's practically life of pi
[TS]
◼
►
but it's it's there you know and he
[TS]
◼
►
commits to it and and those characters
[TS]
◼
►
and we've invested in you know that he
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't get that shirt ripped and I feel
[TS]
◼
►
I felt like that when they when they
[TS]
◼
►
crash-land the jet in in canada in the
[TS]
◼
►
snowy back reina de yeah and they had
[TS]
◼
►
and they find a you know like I'm
[TS]
◼
►
disused you know shut down like mining
[TS]
◼
►
camp and they're there for a while and
[TS]
◼
►
then they been and then the guys come
[TS]
◼
►
back and they've killed some people and
[TS]
◼
►
stolen there's there there's smoke truck
[TS]
◼
►
or whatever and then they use that that
[TS]
◼
►
was fully committed to in a way that i
[TS]
◼
►
really like how he can kind of take the
[TS]
◼
►
set pieces and compartmentalize them and
[TS]
◼
►
and really commit to them so that you
[TS]
◼
►
get engrossed and and it's really you
[TS]
◼
►
know i said this about a few authors
[TS]
◼
►
that i really like it feels like that
[TS]
◼
►
could be a whole books worth of an idea
[TS]
◼
►
and he just tosses it off as you know a
[TS]
◼
►
couple hundred pages inside this or a
[TS]
◼
►
hundred pages inside this thousand-page
[TS]
◼
►
well that's the same thing with the with
[TS]
◼
►
the word realignment I mean ready player
[TS]
◼
►
one you know would have fit neatly
[TS]
◼
►
inside a few chapters of this book in
[TS]
◼
►
terms of the amount of plot
[TS]
◼
►
sophistication and the length
[TS]
◼
►
yeah yeah ready player one through five
[TS]
◼
►
importantly that's the thing that
[TS]
◼
►
strikes me about Stephenson having read
[TS]
◼
►
2.55 of his novels I is oriental decimal
[TS]
◼
►
places well i know well as iphone pages
[TS]
◼
►
but it's interesting because a lot of a
[TS]
◼
►
lot of the time when i was reading this
[TS]
◼
►
book and then we're not was also reading
[TS]
◼
►
snow crash and now cryptonomicon it
[TS]
◼
►
feels like if he had wanted to this
[TS]
◼
►
could very easily been a george RR
[TS]
◼
►
martin let's write five or six books
[TS]
◼
►
about this topic but Stephenson phone
[TS]
◼
►
seems to find a way to craft a coherent
[TS]
◼
►
narrative over the course of one book
[TS]
◼
►
that doesn't necessarily feel like he
[TS]
◼
►
should be chopping it up into segments
[TS]
◼
►
which I find interesting is a lot of
[TS]
◼
►
mechanisms running I think that's the
[TS]
◼
►
thing is he's a he's an incredible
[TS]
◼
►
watchmaker in his worst books the hot
[TS]
◼
►
springs go out of control and destroy
[TS]
◼
►
the inside your kind of left with like
[TS]
◼
►
like the end of cryptonomicon i will not
[TS]
◼
►
spoil it for you ready I'm left going
[TS]
◼
►
like there were a lot of plots and they
[TS]
◼
►
all unraveled at the end I never felt
[TS]
◼
►
like a Stephenson's worse problems while
[TS]
◼
►
he was bad attending yeah always been
[TS]
◼
►
he's all like he's gotten he's gotten
[TS]
◼
►
better i mean i think i think baroque
[TS]
◼
►
cycle through an M through 3d he's shown
[TS]
◼
►
progress in each of those I was not
[TS]
◼
►
horribly disappointed at the end of this
[TS]
◼
►
is like it's what i would say obviously
[TS]
◼
►
it was like 40 disappointed culminates
[TS]
◼
►
in a huge climactic fight right like you
[TS]
◼
►
know just exactly what you expect to get
[TS]
◼
►
a nice little day newmont at the end
[TS]
◼
►
where it sort of wraps up what happens
[TS]
◼
►
to the characters in case you're curious
[TS]
◼
►
that's right and and that's that like
[TS]
◼
►
you know he's I think you know knowing
[TS]
◼
►
when to stop has always been his problem
[TS]
◼
►
and I think either he's got a you know
[TS]
◼
►
an editor who's like hey Neal you got
[TS]
◼
►
plenty here this is good wrap it up or
[TS]
◼
►
he's just sort of figured out like oh
[TS]
◼
►
yeah I've come to the end here I was
[TS]
◼
►
really impressed about how the
[TS]
◼
►
ridiculous amount of plot and the
[TS]
◼
►
ridiculous amount of characters kind of
[TS]
◼
►
came together at the end because you
[TS]
◼
►
really you have them coming from all
[TS]
◼
►
angles you even have Marlon yuxia you
[TS]
◼
►
have them winding up in the same place
[TS]
◼
►
in Iowa it's just impressive how how he
[TS]
◼
►
makes the travels and the fact that like
[TS]
◼
►
through this entire book I had no clue
[TS]
◼
►
what was going to happen next
[TS]
◼
►
couldn't even fathom it I assumed like
[TS]
◼
►
with the terrorists all right they're
[TS]
◼
►
going to get to Canada and maybe the US
[TS]
◼
►
but the rest of the characters no idea
[TS]
◼
►
well he you find that later again if you
[TS]
◼
►
if i have the gumption someday to read
[TS]
◼
►
this book i have read and then I think
[TS]
◼
►
two or three times and there are lots of
[TS]
◼
►
breadcrumb see plants when officers
[TS]
◼
►
tried before shot to win but she
[TS]
◼
►
realized this like going back and
[TS]
◼
►
looking a little bit like oh yeah you
[TS]
◼
►
know back there in the first scene he's
[TS]
◼
►
planting the seed you know yeah he was a
[TS]
◼
►
of Richard was a drug runner he figured
[TS]
◼
►
out this great way to get through the
[TS]
◼
►
border without having to build its own
[TS]
◼
►
tunnels and so you know over that period
[TS]
◼
►
of time it's like you realize oh that's
[TS]
◼
►
where his brother settle to sort of the
[TS]
◼
►
black black black sheep of the family
[TS]
◼
►
the one is really far out there and as
[TS]
◼
►
you go along you realize these
[TS]
◼
►
converging all of these crumbs to the
[TS]
◼
►
resort in the north side of this tunnel
[TS]
◼
►
and the homesteading people the
[TS]
◼
►
fundamentalist on the south side and you
[TS]
◼
►
can sort of feel it all sort of coming
[TS]
◼
►
together and it's going to all pass
[TS]
◼
►
do that through that tunnel one way or
[TS]
◼
►
the other looks like a GPS right you
[TS]
◼
►
know point and you've no point being
[TS]
◼
►
that you have no idea what route it's
[TS]
◼
►
actually going to take so here's my
[TS]
◼
►
here's my highfalutin analysis of this
[TS]
◼
►
which is I was struck by how much of
[TS]
◼
►
this book is about people being
[TS]
◼
►
culturally out of place it in in a in a
[TS]
◼
►
foreign culture or out of alignment with
[TS]
◼
►
their culture and i'll just run off a
[TS]
◼
►
few examples you have the war of
[TS]
◼
►
realignment which is all about people
[TS]
◼
►
forming cultures and drawing lines
[TS]
◼
►
between themselves that that actually
[TS]
◼
►
comes out of this universe built by d
[TS]
◼
►
squared which is then a lived-in by
[TS]
◼
►
Skeletor who does not really have the
[TS]
◼
►
same he doesn't really match it but on a
[TS]
◼
►
personal level you get zula who is a an
[TS]
◼
►
African child adopted by white people in
[TS]
◼
►
in America you've got Abdullah Jones who
[TS]
◼
►
is a I believe in african descent
[TS]
◼
►
Welshman who converts to Islam and
[TS]
◼
►
becomes a jihadist you've got Olivia who
[TS]
◼
►
is an Englishwoman of Chinese descent
[TS]
◼
►
which allows her to be turned into an
[TS]
◼
►
operative for mi6 in Asia even though
[TS]
◼
►
she's very English you've got Richard
[TS]
◼
►
and Richards brothers who are both sort
[TS]
◼
►
of like disaffected from culture the
[TS]
◼
►
brothers are totally cut off from
[TS]
◼
►
american society basically living in
[TS]
◼
►
this homestead Richard is cut off from
[TS]
◼
►
his family you know you've got it goes
[TS]
◼
►
on and on the these where where so many
[TS]
◼
►
people and so many situations in this
[TS]
◼
►
book are about people who are not i mean
[TS]
◼
►
on one level it's just they're not quite
[TS]
◼
►
what you'd expect they're not quite
[TS]
◼
►
they don't fit the mold but I think
[TS]
◼
►
that's purposeful that that a lot of
[TS]
◼
►
this almost everybody in this is
[TS]
◼
►
somebody who is that what you show is
[TS]
◼
►
from another part of China and has and
[TS]
◼
►
culturally is complete
[TS]
◼
►
really different from where she ends up
[TS]
◼
►
and and she's missing lines like
[TS]
◼
►
everybody in this book is a round peg
[TS]
◼
►
strut that stuck in a square hole you
[TS]
◼
►
and you get this with be scared Scotty
[TS]
◼
►
squared and skeletor you already sort of
[TS]
◼
►
mentioned d squared C squared the whole
[TS]
◼
►
land and well and nobody's going to tag
[TS]
◼
►
d squared is never as d square never
[TS]
◼
►
play the video game and your is getting
[TS]
◼
►
dragged and totally invested in there to
[TS]
◼
►
build up contingency legions and
[TS]
◼
►
skeletor doesn't know this highfalutin
[TS]
◼
►
literary work because he's a whole pack
[TS]
◼
►
and he gets dragged into this thing with
[TS]
◼
►
arguments about apostrophes right right
[TS]
◼
►
but anyway I think I think it's good you
[TS]
◼
►
know I think Stephenson is that that's
[TS]
◼
►
certainly an undercurrent here is that
[TS]
◼
►
the these are all about people who are
[TS]
◼
►
in who are not sort of what you'd expect
[TS]
◼
►
in the role that therein and a and i
[TS]
◼
►
love that I i think that i think that's
[TS]
◼
►
great but I i think it's got to be the
[TS]
◼
►
most obvious examples being sulla and
[TS]
◼
►
Abdallah Jones who are not if they're
[TS]
◼
►
not from where they're from and that
[TS]
◼
►
some says something about that's part of
[TS]
◼
►
their character and I think that's
[TS]
◼
►
really interesting
[TS]
◼
►
I mean but in database root for writing
[TS]
◼
►
it creates tension right because they're
[TS]
◼
►
different from all the people around
[TS]
◼
►
them and that creates conflict and
[TS]
◼
►
that's what drives the plot forward
[TS]
◼
►
everybody's in that situation in this
[TS]
◼
►
book that's why I think it's more than
[TS]
◼
►
just him structuring it for conflict i
[TS]
◼
►
think that he's he's trying to do this
[TS]
◼
►
on purpose to have it this this book is
[TS]
◼
►
in some way I think about being somebody
[TS]
◼
►
who's out of place right down to the
[TS]
◼
►
fact of somebody who doesn't understand
[TS]
◼
►
an MMO can't really understand what's
[TS]
◼
►
going on inside the MMO because they are
[TS]
◼
►
not they don't fit in the culture it's
[TS]
◼
►
all a cultural misfit even though even
[TS]
◼
►
though the Russian even Ivana is kind of
[TS]
◼
►
like broken he his bosses don't you know
[TS]
◼
►
he's not behaving properly he doesn't
[TS]
◼
►
fit in anymore and sokoloff doesn't
[TS]
◼
►
really fit anymore because he's got this
[TS]
◼
►
job but he doesn't really clearly he
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't really fit what they're asking
[TS]
◼
►
him to do which is it goes on and on it
[TS]
◼
►
and it i just kept being fascinated by
[TS]
◼
►
finding that every single person views
[TS]
◼
►
themselves as being like disaffected
[TS]
◼
►
from the the job they're in or the
[TS]
◼
►
culture there in or they're different in
[TS]
◼
►
some way you know and i I just I I
[TS]
◼
►
that was that's my that's my take on it
[TS]
◼
►
I don't like to talk about some of the
[TS]
◼
►
characters we didn't like or like you
[TS]
◼
►
know there are some characters that were
[TS]
◼
►
disposable like Peter I think Peter the
[TS]
◼
►
boyfriend as my boyfriend is great
[TS]
◼
►
because he's sort of unlikable when you
[TS]
◼
►
meet him and you figure well you know
[TS]
◼
►
the character development
[TS]
◼
►
we're gonna learn to understand why we
[TS]
◼
►
should like him it's like no he's kind
[TS]
◼
►
of a jerk he makes really bad decisions
[TS]
◼
►
and they get worse and worse and finally
[TS]
◼
►
he when he's killed i gotta say i love
[TS]
◼
►
the fact that Ivana is like
[TS]
◼
►
indifferently at times a gentleman and
[TS]
◼
►
he thinks doula is worthy of respect
[TS]
◼
►
because of how she comports herself and
[TS]
◼
►
her intelligence and he even off despite
[TS]
◼
►
being in this situation where he's crazy
[TS]
◼
►
and he's lost all this money from the
[TS]
◼
►
consortium he represents that is chasing
[TS]
◼
►
to China he still trying to defend that
[TS]
◼
►
notion so Peter is killed
[TS]
◼
►
not because Peter did something wrong or
[TS]
◼
►
croston he's killed because Yvonne up is
[TS]
◼
►
offended that Peter has left his
[TS]
◼
►
girlfriend chained by yvonne off
[TS]
◼
►
downstairs to die and Peter should be
[TS]
◼
►
why does Peter steal the credit cards
[TS]
◼
►
that gets him in this also he's got he's
[TS]
◼
►
behind it's a mortgage thing days under
[TS]
◼
►
these underwater he's underwater and
[TS]
◼
►
he's worried he's gonna lose his loft
[TS]
◼
►
and by extension that means that you
[TS]
◼
►
can't run the thing is doing its like
[TS]
◼
►
it's it's not that well defined but i
[TS]
◼
►
think it's sort of supposed to be this
[TS]
◼
►
like a bad reason
[TS]
◼
►
well you haven't had a very casual thing
[TS]
◼
►
instead of borrowing money from people
[TS]
◼
►
filing for bankruptcy is like when I
[TS]
◼
►
used to do this I know how to do it
[TS]
◼
►
I'm going to do one last haul my last
[TS]
◼
►
job that I retire and causes everything
[TS]
◼
►
yeah a sort of blend you do blend is the
[TS]
◼
►
other thing is the thing that set this
[TS]
◼
►
all in motion of course is Peter on the
[TS]
◼
►
one hand then Richard who completely
[TS]
◼
►
essentially innocently spreads rindy the
[TS]
◼
►
virus so that it it triggers this event
[TS]
◼
►
Peters callousness the casualness of can
[TS]
◼
►
you give me a USB stick he hands in one
[TS]
◼
►
and then that's where everything goes
[TS]
◼
►
right don't forget don't forget Wallace
[TS]
◼
►
in there to write the match has been lit
[TS]
◼
►
a fleeting character who and yet we've
[TS]
◼
►
got that chain right Wallace gives way
[TS]
◼
►
to Avon of gives way to Jones you know
[TS]
◼
►
and sort of you know everything goes
[TS]
◼
►
downhill from there
[TS]
◼
►
I like Wallace though as as briefly as
[TS]
◼
►
we see him as well as long as you last
[TS]
◼
►
yeah yeah I was surprised that the ex
[TS]
◼
►
we killed by the mob the monster who is
[TS]
◼
►
also the gamer I do kind of enjoy that
[TS]
◼
►
enjoy that there is a rent like i enjoy
[TS]
◼
►
that sort of bizarreness that bed comes
[TS]
◼
►
with this fact that like you know at the
[TS]
◼
►
view hand-waving oh it's a game it's
[TS]
◼
►
really popular more popular in World of
[TS]
◼
►
Warcraft and the people that we see
[TS]
◼
►
playing it include the bookkeeper for
[TS]
◼
►
the mob basically we get the name is
[TS]
◼
►
Kelly realize it shames yeah the CIA
[TS]
◼
►
operative I was thinking even just a
[TS]
◼
►
throwaway character that Richard sees in
[TS]
◼
►
the diner and he looks over he's like a
[TS]
◼
►
coffee shop out visiting Skeletor right
[TS]
◼
►
and there's a guy playing t rain and so
[TS]
◼
►
he calls up you know his buddy at the at
[TS]
◼
►
the office and says oh yeah how many
[TS]
◼
►
people are logged on from this diner
[TS]
◼
►
whatever like we got the impression that
[TS]
◼
►
there's people out there in the middle
[TS]
◼
►
of no Missouri or wherever he is
[TS]
◼
►
visiting this guy who are playing this
[TS]
◼
►
game this game is huge i can we talk
[TS]
◼
►
let's talk about the word realign middle
[TS]
◼
►
because I think that's an extremely
[TS]
◼
►
interesting development in here which is
[TS]
◼
►
to say basically they end up so like any
[TS]
◼
►
you know game of this sort of a sort of
[TS]
◼
►
you know promulgated on the idea that
[TS]
◼
►
we've got good we got your characters
[TS]
◼
►
and evil characters whether it's by A&E
[TS]
◼
►
or something like warcraft you can be on
[TS]
◼
►
the enzyme and all the sudden you know
[TS]
◼
►
there is this sort of interesting
[TS]
◼
►
realization that it doesn't really make
[TS]
◼
►
sense because the people who are quote
[TS]
◼
►
unquote evil aren't doing anything
[TS]
◼
►
particular different from the people at
[TS]
◼
►
work photon quote good so it's an
[TS]
◼
►
arbitrary distinction actually says the
[TS]
◼
►
same coin but they need it right because
[TS]
◼
►
it makes the tension it makes the
[TS]
◼
►
conflict in the game and so this war of
[TS]
◼
►
realignment is shifting from instead of
[TS]
◼
►
it being about good versus evil
[TS]
◼
►
it's about something very different and
[TS]
◼
►
I think you know without sort of delving
[TS]
◼
►
directly into it i think it's about
[TS]
◼
►
taste right now that's what it kind of
[TS]
◼
►
comes down and it emerges from it it
[TS]
◼
►
emerges from the game it's not intended
[TS]
◼
►
by the game and it emerges from the fact
[TS]
◼
►
that the game is being played by human
[TS]
◼
►
beings who have differences and
[TS]
◼
►
different worldviews that go way beyond
[TS]
◼
►
picking when you set up the game well
[TS]
◼
►
i'm going to be evil because I want to
[TS]
◼
►
be one of those cool characters that's
[TS]
◼
►
only available in evil
[TS]
◼
►
well I think it kind of reflects on the
[TS]
◼
►
game itself because when you think about
[TS]
◼
►
the the reason why terrain was created
[TS]
◼
►
in the first place is Richard basically
[TS]
◼
►
says well you know why was popular and
[TS]
◼
►
that's great but this basically gives us
[TS]
◼
►
a way to monetize all
[TS]
◼
►
these chinese gold farmers and make gold
[TS]
◼
►
farming an actual legitimate profession
[TS]
◼
►
see already you have that where the
[TS]
◼
►
Americans are playing the game for
[TS]
◼
►
completely different reason than the
[TS]
◼
►
rest of the cut the rest of the world so
[TS]
◼
►
you already have that imbalance and to
[TS]
◼
►
bring in even more well you have the
[TS]
◼
►
people who want to play the game as d
[TS]
◼
►
squared envisioned it you know with you
[TS]
◼
►
know with all old costuming and correct
[TS]
◼
►
colors and things like that and then you
[TS]
◼
►
have and and and this is a real tension
[TS]
◼
►
with a lot of online games where it's
[TS]
◼
►
like there's the people who want to play
[TS]
◼
►
for the like the role-playing story
[TS]
◼
►
elements and then there are the people
[TS]
◼
►
that were there to play you know a
[TS]
◼
►
hack-and-slash game and don't care
[TS]
◼
►
really except the stories just there as
[TS]
◼
►
a crutch right you know the world is
[TS]
◼
►
there's a crunch and then there's the
[TS]
◼
►
other people who are just really into
[TS]
◼
►
everything that's that's you know
[TS]
◼
►
created by that world and and that's a
[TS]
◼
►
very I think that's a very real
[TS]
◼
►
distinction in you know a lot of games
[TS]
◼
►
that exists today and so it's kind of
[TS]
◼
►
fascinating to see that taking on like
[TS]
◼
►
what if those were to become the
[TS]
◼
►
factions and I mean I don't know is
[TS]
◼
►
there is there an implicit sort of class
[TS]
◼
►
warfare almost between them
[TS]
◼
►
given the representations that we get of
[TS]
◼
►
like Donald and Devin you know as the
[TS]
◼
►
two polarizing figures
[TS]
◼
►
oh it certainly seems like adequately oh
[TS]
◼
►
one of them lives in a castle and the
[TS]
◼
►
other was in the trail
[TS]
◼
►
yeah good point it's an excellent like
[TS]
◼
►
they're both kind of majestic
[TS]
◼
►
infrastructures in their own ways
[TS]
◼
►
well and they're both kind of jackasses
[TS]
◼
►
right i remember reading a remembering
[TS]
◼
►
lord of the rings and then sort of
[TS]
◼
►
Shannara and you know if I refined
[TS]
◼
►
childhood recollections right so there's
[TS]
◼
►
different kinds of things like sort of
[TS]
◼
►
Shinar like yeah there was a mythos i
[TS]
◼
►
think i got develop more but it was
[TS]
◼
►
really like a big hack him up
[TS]
◼
►
it was much more of a hack them up
[TS]
◼
►
Vision Quest you know broad strokes
[TS]
◼
►
thing versus you know for like a book
[TS]
◼
►
created in order to enshrine languages
[TS]
◼
►
with a grammar that a cut cambridge dawn
[TS]
◼
►
had developed and attracts different
[TS]
◼
►
people some people want first-person
[TS]
◼
►
shooters that they just kill lots of
[TS]
◼
►
stuff and I mean penny arcade the comic
[TS]
◼
►
is constantly full of basically that
[TS]
◼
►
tension between this is a really subtle
[TS]
◼
►
game and look we have these scrolls and
[TS]
◼
►
plant that kills y'all kill John
[TS]
◼
►
and that's I think that's a constant
[TS]
◼
►
tension between the sophistication of
[TS]
◼
►
some aspects of game design and this
[TS]
◼
►
desire to be highfalutin you know here's
[TS]
◼
►
a virtual environment which we could do
[TS]
◼
►
anything so why we just shooting people
[TS]
◼
►
but it's like the constant arguments
[TS]
◼
►
that we get over whether or not video
[TS]
◼
►
games are art right you know Roger Ebert
[TS]
◼
►
i know has delved into that pool and a
[TS]
◼
►
variety of other people as well but is
[TS]
◼
►
that idea is it is there some sort of
[TS]
◼
►
higher can it can it reach a higher
[TS]
◼
►
realm or is it just about killing people
[TS]
◼
►
or is there are inherent in the idea of
[TS]
◼
►
something even if it's just about
[TS]
◼
►
killing people like you know that again
[TS]
◼
►
this could be a whole book and yet it's
[TS]
◼
►
sort of ends up being falls by the
[TS]
◼
►
wayside as Randy progresses i have to
[TS]
◼
►
say that I one thing i like about this
[TS]
◼
►
novelties i'm assuming because of the
[TS]
◼
►
way Neal Stephenson works that I learned
[TS]
◼
►
a lot this was a day after school
[TS]
◼
►
special about the Russian mob and
[TS]
◼
►
chinese people living in different parts
[TS]
◼
►
of the country and British Columbia's
[TS]
◼
►
byways and highways you know what he was
[TS]
◼
►
writing long features for wired like I
[TS]
◼
►
believe he traveled around the world
[TS]
◼
►
possibly twice once to follow
[TS]
◼
►
fiber-optic and where it was being built
[TS]
◼
►
in weird places like the middle of
[TS]
◼
►
indonesian jungles and and another time
[TS]
◼
►
we followed container ships you know
[TS]
◼
►
like what it was the unit of container
[TS]
◼
►
and how its developed and where they go
[TS]
◼
►
and I feel like this is kind of the
[TS]
◼
►
equivalent equivalent of that but it's
[TS]
◼
►
the he went the the the detail is so
[TS]
◼
►
I don't believe he made it up everybody
[TS]
◼
►
here played massively multiplayer games
[TS]
◼
►
before and not massively I'm not that I
[TS]
◼
►
heavily now I mean I played games that
[TS]
◼
►
have that multiplayer element the same
[TS]
◼
►
serve you know like an MMORPG minus the
[TS]
◼
►
first and that's not what you say I've
[TS]
◼
►
played World of Warcraft once or twice
[TS]
◼
►
alright wow I I'm i love you i have a
[TS]
◼
►
little bit i played in the beta of world
[TS]
◼
►
of warcraft which I realizes now since
[TS]
◼
►
that was when my son was in utero that's
[TS]
◼
►
like seven years ago now that their 7th
[TS]
◼
►
anniversary i believe Josh my wife
[TS]
◼
►
played that much more than me actually
[TS]
◼
►
and then and then she had a baby and
[TS]
◼
►
then there were two children and that
[TS]
◼
►
was that for World of Warcraft but sort
[TS]
◼
►
of a lot more time we did play at some
[TS]
◼
►
and and and that gave me enough of a
[TS]
◼
►
perspective on it I think 22 to get
[TS]
◼
►
it's about but I wonder what that would
[TS]
◼
►
be does this book make as much sense do
[TS]
◼
►
you feel if you've never really played
[TS]
◼
►
those games do you feel as if you
[TS]
◼
►
understand what they're about by reading
[TS]
◼
►
this doesn't have that kind of tour you
[TS]
◼
►
know I'd feel speaking as someone who's
[TS]
◼
►
never played an actual MMO but has
[TS]
◼
►
played a lot of other games i think
[TS]
◼
►
there's stuff that translates even in
[TS]
◼
►
that two other you know from other sorts
[TS]
◼
►
of gaming or for other interactions with
[TS]
◼
►
people it there are very recognizable
[TS]
◼
►
ideas in here and it's not a huge
[TS]
◼
►
stretch in you you know especially
[TS]
◼
►
someone who's universe kind of in gaming
[TS]
◼
►
culture like I'm familiar enough with
[TS]
◼
►
the tropes and thing and an element so
[TS]
◼
►
that make up an MMO to sort of recognize
[TS]
◼
►
them here and it seems pretty clear you
[TS]
◼
►
know that this is a pretty accurate
[TS]
◼
►
description of what goes on and it's not
[TS]
◼
►
hard to extrapolate you know the kind of
[TS]
◼
►
people that you're going to run into
[TS]
◼
►
people like you know the trolls right
[TS]
◼
►
who are there to just sort of do you
[TS]
◼
►
know cause havoc to a certain extent and
[TS]
◼
►
and proper rivers understand right yeah
[TS]
◼
►
the griefers and you know all that I
[TS]
◼
►
mean that's really interesting and I
[TS]
◼
►
think I think what's fascinating to me
[TS]
◼
►
about the world of T rain as its
[TS]
◼
►
described is the sort of key that
[TS]
◼
►
Richard hooks into in coming up with it
[TS]
◼
►
which is let's take gold farming and
[TS]
◼
►
legitimize it and and build our game
[TS]
◼
►
around it right and not only do that but
[TS]
◼
►
like you know basically in order to make
[TS]
◼
►
sure that it works
[TS]
◼
►
duplicate the exact same sort of
[TS]
◼
►
structures that we deal with in real
[TS]
◼
►
life if you had to farm gold what makes
[TS]
◼
►
sense i mean it's if you if you're going
[TS]
◼
►
to produce that kind of a game you need
[TS]
◼
►
that kind of a structure to back it up
[TS]
◼
►
you can't just randomly put gold there
[TS]
◼
►
because somebody is going to figure out
[TS]
◼
►
the algorithms and Exploited right but
[TS]
◼
►
you wouldn't have to explain that in a
[TS]
◼
►
book write and say like all the others
[TS]
◼
►
golden shows up with you get into how it
[TS]
◼
►
works and it's fascinating
[TS]
◼
►
I've never done an important either so i
[TS]
◼
►
have no idea how they play but I didn't
[TS]
◼
►
feel I don't feel lost in the
[TS]
◼
►
environment but i have to say i like
[TS]
◼
►
again Stephenson is accuracy the fact
[TS]
◼
►
that technical details were accurate was
[TS]
◼
►
awesome especially after reading ready
[TS]
◼
►
player one with impossible you know
[TS]
◼
►
whatever crash yes and it's it borders
[TS]
◼
►
on precondition I i like um one of the
[TS]
◼
►
things that always struck me about about
[TS]
◼
►
world of warcraft is the do you know
[TS]
◼
►
where your character died is unlike him
[TS]
◼
►
in a ready player one when your
[TS]
◼
►
character dies and they're dead and you
[TS]
◼
►
gotta start over
[TS]
◼
►
yeah that would really haha umm you go
[TS]
◼
►
into like a limbo state and you go back
[TS]
◼
►
to where you were uh you know the last
[TS]
◼
►
yeah you gotta go to run as a ghost and
[TS]
◼
►
go back to you know it's you're
[TS]
◼
►
basically a time penalty when you die
[TS]
◼
►
and so I love how you know it's got its
[TS]
◼
►
got a death mechanism and it's got an
[TS]
◼
►
idol mechanism where Richard when he has
[TS]
◼
►
taken a viewers when ya when he richard
[TS]
◼
►
has taken by abdullah Jones and and
[TS]
◼
►
dragged it basically across the border
[TS]
◼
►
you know the last thing we see is his
[TS]
◼
►
character which is the basically the god
[TS]
◼
►
of terrain is it just auto walking back
[TS]
◼
►
jogging back to his home i love that
[TS]
◼
►
yeah I i want to read my my favorite
[TS]
◼
►
little passage from this book which i
[TS]
◼
►
think you may be fine surprised about
[TS]
◼
►
what part of this book it's from but it
[TS]
◼
►
just made me laugh and it's so absurd
[TS]
◼
►
and it's it describing so so donald d
[TS]
◼
►
squared the the highfalutin cambridge
[TS]
◼
►
Don who has his castle on the Isle of
[TS]
◼
►
Man's he it says surrounded himself with
[TS]
◼
►
toadies who are basically Society for
[TS]
◼
►
Creative Anachronism type people and
[TS]
◼
►
he's living as a consultant to a
[TS]
◼
►
high-tech company he's living in a
[TS]
◼
►
castle that is trying to be immaculate
[TS]
◼
►
immaculately medieval so what happens if
[TS]
◼
►
you want to contact him and and they've
[TS]
◼
►
worked it out and this is my favorite
[TS]
◼
►
passage which was like this so the email
[TS]
◼
►
pipeline network like this down and
[TS]
◼
►
Douglas the primary city of the Isle of
[TS]
◼
►
Man the girlfriend of one of the
[TS]
◼
►
medievalists who dwelled in a flat there
[TS]
◼
►
i happen to rather like tampons would
[TS]
◼
►
read these squares email as it came in
[TS]
◼
►
filter out the junk and print out a hard
[TS]
◼
►
copy of anything that seemed important
[TS]
◼
►
and zip it up in a waterproof messenger
[TS]
◼
►
bag when it came time to walk her dog
[TS]
◼
►
she would stroll at the waterfront
[TS]
◼
►
promenade until she reached the wii
[TS]
◼
►
elephant train station its northern end
[TS]
◼
►
where she would have
[TS]
◼
►
the bag to the station nation with later
[TS]
◼
►
handed over to the conductor of the
[TS]
◼
►
narrow-gauge electrical train that wound
[TS]
◼
►
its way from there up to the interior of
[TS]
◼
►
the island at a certain point along the
[TS]
◼
►
line it would be tossed out onto the
[TS]
◼
►
sighting and later picked up by d
[TS]
◼
►
squared is gamekeeper who would carry it
[TS]
◼
►
up the hill and place its contents on
[TS]
◼
►
the desk of the in-house troubadour who
[TS]
◼
►
had translated into medieval on sea
[TS]
◼
►
chicken and then sing and or recited to
[TS]
◼
►
d squared at mealtime the lord of the
[TS]
◼
►
manor within dictate a response that
[TS]
◼
►
would follow the reverse route back down
[TS]
◼
►
the hill to the girlfriends laptop and
[TS]
◼
►
oh wow it's a wonderful guy that might
[TS]
◼
►
have been the most unrealistic part of
[TS]
◼
►
the entire but I don't know some people
[TS]
◼
►
actually it's correct their lives to be
[TS]
◼
►
more like that larry ellison is built
[TS]
◼
►
some kind of Japanese reconstruction on
[TS]
◼
►
top of a little pop in woodside so yeah
[TS]
◼
►
in order to get an email to larry
[TS]
◼
►
ellison like me to send in just a few
[TS]
◼
►
actions you actually have to assassinate
[TS]
◼
►
three people to send email larry ellison
[TS]
◼
►
it's pretty takes a big toll so be
[TS]
◼
►
careful as I realize that's ridiculous
[TS]
◼
►
but I mean there are lots of directors
[TS]
◼
►
great it's like great detail but that's
[TS]
◼
►
it so he's created his own kind of
[TS]
◼
►
physical tr8 right space created this
[TS]
◼
►
this replica of an age that never really
[TS]
◼
►
why go into the internet when you can
[TS]
◼
►
just buy a castle exactly but I love
[TS]
◼
►
that when they need he goes into the you
[TS]
◼
►
know into T rain he doesn't have shoes
[TS]
◼
►
right but he doesn't need to buy them
[TS]
◼
►
because they cost of these like I waste
[TS]
◼
►
money on shoes I don't you choose here
[TS]
◼
►
and that's fascinating know that I mean
[TS]
◼
►
that's an interesting point right
[TS]
◼
►
because the you this is this guy who who
[TS]
◼
►
who insists upon you know authenticity
[TS]
◼
►
right very similar to do like he wants
[TS]
◼
►
to look real and yet when he goes into
[TS]
◼
►
the game it's I don't want to waste
[TS]
◼
►
money on shoes he has very little
[TS]
◼
►
respect for the game at first right but
[TS]
◼
►
it right and that's fascinating because
[TS]
◼
►
it's a divergence and not you know he's
[TS]
◼
►
a snob right like that's essentially
[TS]
◼
►
what he is he looks down on all of this
[TS]
◼
►
and so it's funny though that he forsake
[TS]
◼
►
his own principles to a certain extent
[TS]
◼
►
once he gets immersed in that world
[TS]
◼
►
what's interesting to me there is he's
[TS]
◼
►
completely snobbish about the game until
[TS]
◼
►
Richard basically is like hey look you
[TS]
◼
►
can earn money here you can pay for all
[TS]
◼
►
these wonderful things that you
[TS]
◼
►
I'm putting in your castle and you can
[TS]
◼
►
help us build a world your knowledge of
[TS]
◼
►
this culture is valuable
[TS]
◼
►
right i mean but that essentially
[TS]
◼
►
undermines to a certain extent right
[TS]
◼
►
like because this whole thing is you
[TS]
◼
►
know he didn't last and / yeah exactly
[TS]
◼
►
exactly mr. I mean that six-shot you can
[TS]
◼
►
sell out and make money but go right so
[TS]
◼
►
we're back to that and so he's kind of
[TS]
◼
►
saying that the taste is kind of a low
[TS]
◼
►
in the end right you know like he
[TS]
◼
►
doesn't you know he doesn't necessarily
[TS]
◼
►
the only run skin deep
[TS]
◼
►
well you know and if he's he's a Don
[TS]
◼
►
who's running a food made money ready
[TS]
◼
►
fantasy novels who's already sold out
[TS]
◼
►
right I really didn't see it that way
[TS]
◼
►
he you know he think he like Tolkien
[TS]
◼
►
he's come up with the language and you
[TS]
◼
►
know the whole society and culture you
[TS]
◼
►
know he's kind of like you kind of pic
[TS]
◼
►
from is that guy who desperately wanted
[TS]
◼
►
to be you know respected academically
[TS]
◼
►
but even though he really secretly
[TS]
◼
►
wanted to write all this like trashy
[TS]
◼
►
fantasy so I want to talk about the end
[TS]
◼
►
of the book because it does end in a
[TS]
◼
►
hail of bullets and uh I don't read a
[TS]
◼
►
lot of books that end with this much
[TS]
◼
►
gunplay and there's like a lot of
[TS]
◼
►
detailed I I thought it was strange that
[TS]
◼
►
he was thinking uh experts on ammunition
[TS]
◼
►
and and and weaponry in the
[TS]
◼
►
acknowledgments but no no it i see why
[TS]
◼
►
because it's incredibly detailed in it
[TS]
◼
►
and I just wanted to know what you guys
[TS]
◼
►
thought about the action sequence at the
[TS]
◼
►
end we've gotta chase we have a couple
[TS]
◼
►
different groups coming through the
[TS]
◼
►
mountains there's a helicopter that gets
[TS]
◼
►
shot down by a guy and then somebody
[TS]
◼
►
blow something up but then there's our
[TS]
◼
►
should go to your booby traps in tunnels
[TS]
◼
►
and there's a UH exchange of gunfire on
[TS]
◼
►
a hillside or around like a guy was on
[TS]
◼
►
anymore mind grabbing his chest
[TS]
◼
►
yeah and then and then there's the
[TS]
◼
►
there's that you know the shack and then
[TS]
◼
►
the houses in the settlement and their
[TS]
◼
►
the terrorists coming down from through
[TS]
◼
►
the air coming through the tunnel
[TS]
◼
►
another the other terrorists were coming
[TS]
◼
►
up the street into the neighborhood and
[TS]
◼
►
I mean he has so many pieces and it's
[TS]
◼
►
messy and but it's it is exciting
[TS]
◼
►
um you know it's not what i expected i'm
[TS]
◼
►
just wondering what you guys thought of
[TS]
◼
►
that the the end because the ending
[TS]
◼
►
drops all pretense of being about you
[TS]
◼
►
know p whatever we've said this book is
[TS]
◼
►
about it and in many ways it just comes
[TS]
◼
►
down to people with guns getting in the
[TS]
◼
►
right position so that they can shoot
[TS]
◼
►
other people try mean I I've little I've
[TS]
◼
►
read a lot of tom clancy I've heard a
[TS]
◼
►
few I've read a few tom clancy's and
[TS]
◼
►
there are some tom clancy's that that
[TS]
◼
►
kind of you know the kind of read like
[TS]
◼
►
this it and you know it it's very
[TS]
◼
►
reminiscent of that and yet somehow I
[TS]
◼
►
you know maybe I maybe I just maybe
[TS]
◼
►
myself and caught within that war of
[TS]
◼
►
taste and and wanted to be better than
[TS]
◼
►
that but I mean it is gripped write the
[TS]
◼
►
unit's gripping it's page-turning and I
[TS]
◼
►
think you know he does a very good job
[TS]
◼
►
of sort of not only making it just about
[TS]
◼
►
what the hail of gunfire but also you
[TS]
◼
►
know we do have some some relationship
[TS]
◼
►
stuff going on in these last few pages
[TS]
◼
►
because we have you know Richard
[TS]
◼
►
thinking he's basically you know he's
[TS]
◼
►
he's just happy that you know he got the
[TS]
◼
►
Sula back and happy that she'll survive
[TS]
◼
►
you know if he doesn't make it out and
[TS]
◼
►
we get you know a number of other
[TS]
◼
►
characters who just sort of are working
[TS]
◼
►
towards some other goal and we get there
[TS]
◼
►
their relationships and interactions
[TS]
◼
►
with some of the other characters and I
[TS]
◼
►
i was surprised in the end that I
[TS]
◼
►
thought more of the characters that we
[TS]
◼
►
liked we're going to bite it and in fact
[TS]
◼
►
the only one who really the old we lose
[TS]
◼
►
to right and they're both kind of minor
[TS]
◼
►
characters I mean not in there you know
[TS]
◼
►
importance but in their screen time
[TS]
◼
►
yeah well i was i was kind of I thought
[TS]
◼
►
he did such a great job i was far more
[TS]
◼
►
interested i should say in the kind of
[TS]
◼
►
the t-brain aspect of this because I
[TS]
◼
►
thought it was so interesting and
[TS]
◼
►
original and I was kind of disappointed
[TS]
◼
►
when it i could it was there is a clear
[TS]
◼
►
shift into ok now it's just going to be
[TS]
◼
►
I mean it's a well-written thriller but
[TS]
◼
►
I was hoping I thought the book could be
[TS]
◼
►
it was good but I wanted to be like
[TS]
◼
►
amazing and I just kind of thought it
[TS]
◼
►
ended kind of like a cliche
[TS]
◼
►
well that was that was my feeling when
[TS]
◼
►
they made the turn is that I started to
[TS]
◼
►
think I wonder if this really is him
[TS]
◼
►
realizing that cory doctorow did a whole
[TS]
◼
►
book about gold farmers and and
[TS]
◼
►
an MMO it you know in China and i also
[TS]
◼
►
will do something different
[TS]
◼
►
well i should point out you having for
[TS]
◼
►
the win which I don't like to think I
[TS]
◼
►
don't think there was a minority opinion
[TS]
◼
►
at the time or only one also read it for
[TS]
◼
►
the wind has you know Chinese American
[TS]
◼
►
people and other strange nationalities
[TS]
◼
►
spring the globe and conspiracies and
[TS]
◼
►
mafioso and things being kicked down and
[TS]
◼
►
people being killed unexpectedly in the
[TS]
◼
►
middle of the book it's a big shaggy dog
[TS]
◼
►
story to a very different kind of want a
[TS]
◼
►
lot more political than this because I'm
[TS]
◼
►
not sure there's a only the moral of
[TS]
◼
►
this story is there don't live it
[TS]
◼
►
don't be a terrorist on the left one
[TS]
◼
►
killed exactly don't be late again vs
[TS]
◼
►
you vs well I mean I did the family
[TS]
◼
►
themes are august i think our are part
[TS]
◼
►
of it that that you've got not just the
[TS]
◼
►
family and the fourth rest family that
[TS]
◼
►
have a lot of differences but in the end
[TS]
◼
►
you know I know it's hokey but they that
[TS]
◼
►
that is one of the messages here is like
[TS]
◼
►
people pull together and they may have
[TS]
◼
►
some differences but in the end you know
[TS]
◼
►
the you stick with the people who matter
[TS]
◼
►
to you and you see these different oddly
[TS]
◼
►
paired people come together and you know
[TS]
◼
►
that's sort of a theme of it but it's
[TS]
◼
►
not exactly something kind of deep an
[TS]
◼
►
earth-shattering you know the other one
[TS]
◼
►
is that everyone wants to belong to
[TS]
◼
►
something right so right all those
[TS]
◼
►
outsiders exactly all the characters are
[TS]
◼
►
looking for some connection which is
[TS]
◼
►
also kind of cliche but you know it's a
[TS]
◼
►
theme in lots of stuff and and we do end
[TS]
◼
►
up with a lot of them paired off at the
[TS]
◼
►
end right which I thought was a little
[TS]
◼
►
little it turned into a little bit until
[TS]
◼
►
I guess Shakespearean combinational
[TS]
◼
►
couples everywhere
[TS]
◼
►
yeah everybody's getting married at the
[TS]
◼
►
end except for except for Richard a lot
[TS]
◼
►
of love story hiding inches thousand off
[TS]
◼
►
there is but not i mean not one that
[TS]
◼
►
really makes any sense
[TS]
◼
►
no it's mostly gen hey we're all I mean
[TS]
◼
►
it's like okay so Olivia who i love i
[TS]
◼
►
actually think is a really great
[TS]
◼
►
character one of the funny things about
[TS]
◼
►
Olivia's when she said on her mission
[TS]
◼
►
she specifically told basically please
[TS]
◼
►
don't have sex with anybody which is
[TS]
◼
►
like hey wow that's what I'm just a lady
[TS]
◼
►
is she makes equipment like James Bond
[TS]
◼
►
gets to you and how come I don't ya at
[TS]
◼
►
what I mean she's the most i like their
[TS]
◼
►
relationship the best out of all the
[TS]
◼
►
girls you because it's the only
[TS]
◼
►
that has a substitute go through all of
[TS]
◼
►
that and then and then there are the
[TS]
◼
►
island right they swim to the Taiwanese
[TS]
◼
►
island and and they you know well we're
[TS]
◼
►
tired and you know we got to spend the
[TS]
◼
►
alright and that's adding one of one of
[TS]
◼
►
the things that my friends used to
[TS]
◼
►
criticize Stephenson about in his
[TS]
◼
►
earlier books is starring in gratuitous
[TS]
◼
►
sex scenes all the time which i think is
[TS]
◼
►
still a little i mean he doesn't
[TS]
◼
►
cryptonomicon and in Snow Crash to a
[TS]
◼
►
certain extent like it's just like out
[TS]
◼
►
yeah it's probably the sexy in here like
[TS]
◼
►
it doesn't it's kind of weird like it's
[TS]
◼
►
it makes sense into a certain degree in
[TS]
◼
►
the in the illogical plot but you also
[TS]
◼
►
didn't necessarily need Bolivian
[TS]
◼
►
sokoloff i felt i was earned right i
[TS]
◼
►
mean yeah they have the best
[TS]
◼
►
relationship with anybody I mean like as
[TS]
◼
►
much as I like gore and Zula his
[TS]
◼
►
fascination with her like it's a little
[TS]
◼
►
yes on it's sort of like you know he
[TS]
◼
►
sees it's like love at first sight right
[TS]
◼
►
and I mean I like too much better when
[TS]
◼
►
he was the foil to Peter and like Peters
[TS]
◼
►
a jerk and doesn't really care about
[TS]
◼
►
anything but soooo does and stronger was
[TS]
◼
►
like hey you know like i'm kind of a
[TS]
◼
►
gentleman you know at least be polite
[TS]
◼
►
but like the fact that he then goes all
[TS]
◼
►
the way across you know around the world
[TS]
◼
►
to track her down is a little bit thin
[TS]
◼
►
yeah you did get the sense that
[TS]
◼
►
Stephenson he wanted to get some people
[TS]
◼
►
together he wanted to be about love in
[TS]
◼
►
the end straight
[TS]
◼
►
love conquers all people and there
[TS]
◼
►
seemed no one love to do it
[TS]
◼
►
love conquers all but not as much as I
[TS]
◼
►
got unstuck and unhurt
[TS]
◼
►
I i do like Abdullah Jones is excellent
[TS]
◼
►
a in a by nearly by animal that he's
[TS]
◼
►
like you know it's an ok it's a cougar
[TS]
◼
►
at Penn or whatever he says it is what
[TS]
◼
►
it is it's a it's a it's a cougar to
[TS]
◼
►
mount like what does he say says it's a
[TS]
◼
►
yeah it's just a big cat but it's like
[TS]
◼
►
of course because nobody in there and
[TS]
◼
►
then Richard I mean that's the great you
[TS]
◼
►
know loop there as you open with people
[TS]
◼
►
shooting guns for the hell shooting gone
[TS]
◼
►
to the beginning and the end with him
[TS]
◼
►
you know shooting doing the thing you
[TS]
◼
►
have to do which is to shoot Jones &
[TS]
◼
►
Jones finally being flummoxed after that
[TS]
◼
►
many thousands of miles and thousands of
[TS]
◼
►
there's nothing operatic or anything
[TS]
◼
►
about that that death which actually
[TS]
◼
►
kind of appreciate it is that in the end
[TS]
◼
►
which is finally got a shot and he takes
[TS]
◼
►
it and Jones is dead
[TS]
◼
►
it and Jones is dead
[TS]
◼
►
and that's it I was wondering I mean did
[TS]
◼
►
you guys find yourself wondering who was
[TS]
◼
►
gonna get to do it you know like because
[TS]
◼
►
i'm certain poetic justice right you
[TS]
◼
►
kind of expect Zullo more but at the
[TS]
◼
►
same time you're kind of relieved that
[TS]
◼
►
she doesn't have to be you know have
[TS]
◼
►
that sort of burden or what have you or
[TS]
◼
►
you know have to you know kill somebody
[TS]
◼
►
face like that or something but I don't
[TS]
◼
►
know it's interesting I kept wondering
[TS]
◼
►
who was going to turn out to be 0 was
[TS]
◼
►
gonna turn out to be Sheamus was you
[TS]
◼
►
know Sokolov I don't know after they
[TS]
◼
►
bash in Richards brothers skull with his
[TS]
◼
►
own prosthetic leg I feel like Richard
[TS]
◼
►
kind of gets the honor there right
[TS]
◼
►
why makers you know basically to design
[TS]
◼
►
shoot up his best friend and get him to
[TS]
◼
►
blow himself alright that was spread out
[TS]
◼
►
that was badass and I do I like cat i
[TS]
◼
►
like i like his little digression at the
[TS]
◼
►
beginning right was riding the
[TS]
◼
►
motorcycle and he gets the corn stock
[TS]
◼
►
like shoved up his eye
[TS]
◼
►
oh yeah terribly terribly grows it you
[TS]
◼
►
kind of forget about times before he
[TS]
◼
►
goes away for like 700 pages then he
[TS]
◼
►
comes back and he's like that so so
[TS]
◼
►
wrapping up what are we what do we think
[TS]
◼
►
what you know in the grand scheme of of
[TS]
◼
►
neal stephenson and his books and also
[TS]
◼
►
just sort of that's as its own thing
[TS]
◼
►
what's the verdict on windy always buy a
[TS]
◼
►
kilogram of tea from a short Chinese one
[TS]
◼
►
wearing bright luminous i gotta-i gotta
[TS]
◼
►
fortunate said that the other day we
[TS]
◼
►
recently by worked out didn't it
[TS]
◼
►
I I mean depends on your definition of
[TS]
◼
►
art out and she ever go home again
[TS]
◼
►
oh that's good question know what so uh
[TS]
◼
►
so what's the verdict ran what do you
[TS]
◼
►
think I quite liked it is again having
[TS]
◼
►
only read to stevens and books i've
[TS]
◼
►
started with no crash and then i read
[TS]
◼
►
this one so far my my records pretty
[TS]
◼
►
good of course i'm still halfway through
[TS]
◼
►
cryptonomicon so anything there but
[TS]
◼
►
really a quite light my kryptonite
[TS]
◼
►
economy is Krypton is worth weather for
[TS]
◼
►
the journey if not the if not the
[TS]
◼
►
destination so Scott what did you think
[TS]
◼
►
of this book I have conflicted feelings
[TS]
◼
►
about this book after you I ready player
[TS]
◼
►
one either before or after this and this
[TS]
◼
►
like 14 million times better than ready
[TS]
◼
►
player one haha there's there's no
[TS]
◼
►
comparison love uu x 0 scat well its
[TS]
◼
►
trip which ready player one it's so it
[TS]
◼
►
may I don't think he would hate that
[TS]
◼
►
book that much I didn't like it but I
[TS]
◼
►
was stunned level of hate and yeah it a
[TS]
◼
►
set where we did a whole pie Kassai we
[TS]
◼
►
don't need I didn't like it i just got
[TS]
◼
►
so if every remind very successful i
[TS]
◼
►
thought it was a fun book but I I
[TS]
◼
►
thought I have to admit that he kind of
[TS]
◼
►
missed an opportunity to write like a
[TS]
◼
►
great book and i know i read some
[TS]
◼
►
interviews with him after reading the
[TS]
◼
►
book because I was like this book is not
[TS]
◼
►
anything like what I expected and he
[TS]
◼
►
just wanted to write a thriller and so
[TS]
◼
►
he wrote a thriller have you know check
[TS]
◼
►
you succeeded neal stephenson yeah
[TS]
◼
►
alright Dan what about you
[TS]
◼
►
I quite liked it as well you know our
[TS]
◼
►
colleague John syracuse I asked me the
[TS]
◼
►
should I read this and I SAT there
[TS]
◼
►
thinking about it for a while trying to
[TS]
◼
►
figure out how to answer that question i
[TS]
◼
►
mean i think i recommended to I a lot of
[TS]
◼
►
people including I think I told him in
[TS]
◼
►
the end I think he should read it i'm
[TS]
◼
►
not sure if you like it or not but I
[TS]
◼
►
think it's a good book and you know it
[TS]
◼
►
like Scott says a kind of it goes into
[TS]
◼
►
their a direction obviously that you
[TS]
◼
►
don't expect a lot and in such is not it
[TS]
◼
►
is very unexpected but unexpected book
[TS]
◼
►
for neal stephenson but then again all
[TS]
◼
►
of neal stephenson books are kind of
[TS]
◼
►
unexpected this guy's reading like a
[TS]
◼
►
like a huge epic about like the Mongols
[TS]
◼
►
among other things so but in the end of
[TS]
◼
►
the day I i really like it i had some
[TS]
◼
►
minor quibbles and flaws but in it grips
[TS]
◼
►
and it keeps you going right like I kept
[TS]
◼
►
wanting to read the next page and in if
[TS]
◼
►
you know sort of some it down to that I
[TS]
◼
►
think that's a that's pretty successful
[TS]
◼
►
giving you know reader to turn the page
[TS]
◼
►
to want to turn the page is a little bit
[TS]
◼
►
so that's the magic trick d laundry on
[TS]
◼
►
your part of a writer and he had to
[TS]
◼
►
accomplish that a thousand time so I'll
[TS]
◼
►
and what about you
[TS]
◼
►
I think this is one of my favorite
[TS]
◼
►
students and novels and I actually quite
[TS]
◼
►
you know I I like NM i read if you read
[TS]
◼
►
that you have to establish base camps at
[TS]
◼
►
various points in
[TS]
◼
►
be supplied with you because it's a long
[TS]
◼
►
trip to the top and then you have to get
[TS]
◼
►
down the other side that's right then
[TS]
◼
►
you have to climb down with the quite
[TS]
◼
►
literally actually go and you have
[TS]
◼
►
together with old down the Avatar I look
[TS]
◼
►
to the east but the but I've been all
[TS]
◼
►
worth it I thought he did a terrific job
[TS]
◼
►
in integrating like keeping the stuff
[TS]
◼
►
that that we like about his work without
[TS]
◼
►
pandering to us you know it doing his
[TS]
◼
►
sort of oh I don't know it's a little
[TS]
◼
►
Moby Dick is kind of like that's gonna
[TS]
◼
►
I bet your partner gonna start cleaning
[TS]
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tag urban television in that you know he
[TS]
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likes to be heard that villain and the
[TS]
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middle of you know fighting away i'll
[TS]
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have 500 pages on your abstract whale
[TS]
◼
►
oil but he and he said he submerges that
[TS]
◼
►
desire just like a whale here and made
[TS]
◼
►
it much more riveting story and i think
[TS]
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►
i like that i was surprised I was sort
[TS]
◼
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of like okay wow this is different and
[TS]
◼
►
then just raced through it read it like
[TS]
◼
►
I'll compare this to Great Bear a few
[TS]
◼
►
years ago that is a sci-fi author by
[TS]
◼
►
trade I think now not really consider
[TS]
◼
►
that he can move the book called
[TS]
◼
►
Quantico that was sort of about the
[TS]
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►
American racks anthrax attacks and had a
[TS]
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►
plausible scenario about coming created
[TS]
◼
►
somewhere and there was no mysterious
[TS]
◼
►
man traveling around the country and
[TS]
◼
►
weird attacks in Islamic extremists or
[TS]
◼
►
Jewish extremist something in this case
[TS]
◼
►
perhaps and and so forth and I don't
[TS]
◼
►
think I don't feel like that pulled it
[TS]
◼
►
off like he just couldn't make a good
[TS]
◼
►
story without having supernatural
[TS]
◼
►
ridiculous elements it was he was rooted
[TS]
◼
►
in the real and he couldn't make that
[TS]
◼
►
transition give up the things that made
[TS]
◼
►
Greg Barrett what what he is and
[TS]
◼
►
Stephenson I think you know he tries to
[TS]
◼
►
tell a good story in this time he really
[TS]
◼
►
did it just it just moves along there's
[TS]
◼
►
a point where I'm just devouring the
[TS]
◼
►
book as fast as I can which I i don't
[TS]
◼
►
recall ever having done with anything
[TS]
◼
►
but maybe we start crashing zodiac are
[TS]
◼
►
more like that snow crash is less dense
[TS]
◼
►
but there are a lot shorter and shorter
[TS]
◼
►
you still crossed over too many times or
[TS]
◼
►
it's just you know I think I mean like
[TS]
◼
►
his weakest book i think almost the
[TS]
◼
►
diamond age which I feel like I don't
[TS]
◼
►
know what you like that there's some
[TS]
◼
►
great stuff in it that's my favorite
[TS]
◼
►
ways lots of my favorite of his yeah
[TS]
◼
►
Scott nice you're wrong down with me to
[TS]
◼
►
have a land of evolution
[TS]
◼
►
Stephenson fight club episode clearly
[TS]
◼
►
but diamond a job that was full of
[TS]
◼
►
clever stuff but I don't feel like it
[TS]
◼
►
come together and there's a lot of
[TS]
◼
►
extraneous things lots of sort of you
[TS]
◼
►
know weird cultural ideas the end up
[TS]
◼
►
throwing a blender and then make us
[TS]
◼
►
believe was real but I great stuff at
[TS]
◼
►
this I felt held together as a real as
[TS]
◼
►
an interesting work without without
[TS]
◼
►
going too far astray from his core
[TS]
◼
►
liking this thing we like about him
[TS]
◼
►
thank you Jason what did you get
[TS]
◼
►
oh thank you for asking Scott your
[TS]
◼
►
mobile uh I liked it but i want i have
[TS]
◼
►
some caveats III I like that it has an
[TS]
◼
►
even though the ending is really the
[TS]
◼
►
ratcheting of the plot machinery Neal
[TS]
◼
►
Stephenson has a real problem with
[TS]
◼
►
endings and I like his i love his work i
[TS]
◼
►
really do it's so inventive i love his
[TS]
◼
►
digression sometimes the digression of
[TS]
◼
►
they're just so delightfully strange and
[TS]
◼
►
fully realized but his hands like Snow
[TS]
◼
►
Crash such a great book and in the end
[TS]
◼
►
is just a disaster it he doesn't know
[TS]
◼
►
what to do and and I feel that way in a
[TS]
◼
►
lot of his books and sometimes I feel
[TS]
◼
►
like the length of his books because he
[TS]
◼
►
can't figure out how to end it so he
[TS]
◼
►
just keeps writing hoping that you'll be
[TS]
◼
►
struck down and they'll say well it's
[TS]
◼
►
unfinished but here it is and so so I
[TS]
◼
►
like that this book has an ending and I
[TS]
◼
►
don't mind that it ends and in a giant
[TS]
◼
►
hail of gunfire I what I'd say is that
[TS]
◼
►
it's a strange conglomeration of a book
[TS]
◼
►
at as as interesting and and strange as
[TS]
◼
►
it is that the book takes a left turn
[TS]
◼
►
when sulla decides to send them to the
[TS]
◼
►
wrong apartment in China because that's
[TS]
◼
►
really what this is she says go to the
[TS]
◼
►
third floor instead of the second floor
[TS]
◼
►
or whatever fifth floor into the sixth
[TS]
◼
►
floor might what I would say is i think
[TS]
◼
►
this book would have been better if the
[TS]
◼
►
stories were more integrated and there
[TS]
◼
►
wasn't a left turn and so what what you
[TS]
◼
►
ended up getting was when you get to
[TS]
◼
►
that climax with the guns that there's
[TS]
◼
►
also something happening in terrain and
[TS]
◼
►
there's more you know it's more
[TS]
◼
►
simultaneous and it
[TS]
◼
►
and it's part of a bigger story and and
[TS]
◼
►
where I felt let down with I just felt
[TS]
◼
►
let down that he was dropping large
[TS]
◼
►
elements and that you know it was it was
[TS]
◼
►
messier than i thought i would like I
[TS]
◼
►
feel like I don't have a problem with
[TS]
◼
►
what he did but I feel like it was kind
[TS]
◼
►
of too big of a change for him to solve
[TS]
◼
►
so he just went ahead with the left turn
[TS]
◼
►
and my sort he throws are in ballast
[TS]
◼
►
overboard in order to you know to
[TS]
◼
►
achieve or or something like that and
[TS]
◼
►
let all the air out of the balloon to
[TS]
◼
►
land the plot or something right well
[TS]
◼
►
right yeah it's something sure those
[TS]
◼
►
little words was a template so you just
[TS]
◼
►
throwing all those metaphors out that's
[TS]
◼
►
until I hit enjoy the chase for the up
[TS]
◼
►
with what you know you know what I mean
[TS]
◼
►
it's sort of like what I what I wanted
[TS]
◼
►
to have at the end was was the action
[TS]
◼
►
integrated a little bit more with some
[TS]
◼
►
of the other kind of technical
[TS]
◼
►
extrapolation stuff no I i totally agree
[TS]
◼
►
with you because the video game at some
[TS]
◼
►
point you're like wait a minute they
[TS]
◼
►
sort of this brushed off that whole
[TS]
◼
►
thing that we've been talking about for
[TS]
◼
►
inner pages in passing here and there
[TS]
◼
►
that's been connective tissue suddenly
[TS]
◼
►
it's completely unimportant compared to
[TS]
◼
►
you know the local police department
[TS]
◼
►
flying in a helicopter which could
[TS]
◼
►
suddenly shot down by the air-to-ground
[TS]
◼
►
missile yeah yeah so so I liked it right
[TS]
◼
►
that was my that so that would be my
[TS]
◼
►
take those I wish it was more integrated
[TS]
◼
►
together instead of it just being a left
[TS]
◼
►
turn because as clever as that left left
[TS]
◼
►
turn twist is in a way cuz you're like
[TS]
◼
►
whoa I'm surprised it goes for the rest
[TS]
◼
►
of the book and it ends up not seeming
[TS]
◼
►
so much as a clever authorial decision
[TS]
◼
►
as it does that he regretted the story
[TS]
◼
►
he was writing and decided to write
[TS]
◼
►
something different and at so i love
[TS]
◼
►
that that he wrote it he's learning how
[TS]
◼
►
I wish that it had been more of a whole
[TS]
◼
►
work instead of feeling like a book that
[TS]
◼
►
he started and thought better of and bed
[TS]
◼
►
wrote something else and then sold the
[TS]
◼
►
whole thing to us that's what I think
[TS]
◼
►
Scott thank you for asking will you
[TS]
◼
►
no i agree with you that I'm under
[TS]
◼
►
surprised how much we all like book i
[TS]
◼
►
was i was thinking that I might be the
[TS]
◼
►
odd one out or one of the other ones out
[TS]
◼
►
and that the parts of it like as much
[TS]
◼
►
but I was great read and I'm glad we for
[TS]
◼
►
once we were all like his style and his
[TS]
◼
►
inventiveness and his intelligence
[TS]
◼
►
it's gets let him get away with a lot I
[TS]
◼
►
yes this is truly respected respect the
[TS]
◼
►
fact that respects as a reader that he
[TS]
◼
►
thinks we're actually going to be
[TS]
◼
►
interesting stuff he has to tell us and
[TS]
◼
►
not up to walk us you know take us by
[TS]
◼
►
the nose through it
[TS]
◼
►
yeah yeah and so and so that's why I
[TS]
◼
►
i'll buy you know I need nail Stephenson
[TS]
◼
►
anything because you know he's a good
[TS]
◼
►
writer with lots of good ideas and his
[TS]
◼
►
smarts and and writes about things that
[TS]
◼
►
I'm interested in
[TS]
◼
►
and even though he's got his faults be
[TS]
◼
►
it's worth taking a chance when he when
[TS]
◼
►
he does something new and so yes even
[TS]
◼
►
though it's it's it's flawed and it's
[TS]
◼
►
not what i would recommend to somebody
[TS]
◼
►
who wants to read first Neal Stephenson
[TS]
◼
►
i would probably recommend snow crash or
[TS]
◼
►
the diamond age or cryptonomicon or or
[TS]
◼
►
zodiac which is actually in some ways
[TS]
◼
►
more the mode book its most like this in
[TS]
◼
►
that there's a lot of action but it is
[TS]
◼
►
what it is from the start though
[TS]
◼
►
exactly and that's where it gets back to
[TS]
◼
►
my complaints about this is that i feel
[TS]
◼
►
it's almost I don't feel it was a
[TS]
◼
►
bait-and-switch I feel it was him
[TS]
◼
►
thinking he was going to write one story
[TS]
◼
►
and then deciding to write another but
[TS]
◼
►
in the end perhaps he should have gone
[TS]
◼
►
back and done more work to to spackle
[TS]
◼
►
that over i mean i think anything to a
[TS]
◼
►
certain extent as I was saying about you
[TS]
◼
►
know cryptonomicon I think it's true for
[TS]
◼
►
a lot of his books that the you know the
[TS]
◼
►
reward and reading them is in the
[TS]
◼
►
reading of them not necessarily in the
[TS]
◼
►
you know where where it ends up and I
[TS]
◼
►
think we know we agreed about that with
[TS]
◼
►
cryptonomicon I think that's true with
[TS]
◼
►
the baroque cycle as well which is to
[TS]
◼
►
say not that book doesn't have you know
[TS]
◼
►
i think that that series has a
[TS]
◼
►
serviceable ending but the the interest
[TS]
◼
►
in that series comes from all the things
[TS]
◼
►
that you encounter along the way right
[TS]
◼
►
that are just his fantastic his
[TS]
◼
►
digressions as you were saying and how
[TS]
◼
►
interested in detail he gets in all
[TS]
◼
►
these things and thus makes them
[TS]
◼
►
fascinating to us the readers things
[TS]
◼
►
that you wouldn't think for fascinating
[TS]
◼
►
you know the economic development of you
[TS]
◼
►
know Europe right right in the 16th
[TS]
◼
►
century it's like wow that had that
[TS]
◼
►
sounds boring as hell what I feel as if
[TS]
◼
►
we've come to the end of our book club
[TS]
◼
►
did everybody enjoy the tea and the and
[TS]
◼
►
a little lemon cookies missing just got
[TS]
◼
►
lucky next time I'll make scones
[TS]
◼
►
skype scones enjoyed the complaint was
[TS]
◼
►
yes everybody take your complimentary
[TS]
◼
►
ammunition as you leave I'll take two
[TS]
◼
►
Clips before our NATO rounds you
[TS]
◼
►
it's through and and somebody here gets
[TS]
◼
►
a claim or no on the claim under your
[TS]
◼
►
the door is gone now because the
[TS]
◼
►
claymore was under it
[TS]
◼
►
oh well I let's say thank you Jason for
[TS]
◼
►
inspiring me to Rita this very long book
[TS]
◼
►
which I would have done this soon and
[TS]
◼
►
would not enjoy this much otherwise so
[TS]
◼
►
a while why you're very welcome i'm i'm
[TS]
◼
►
happy to inspire you to read long books
[TS]
◼
►
it it's very sad what I'm the only one
[TS]
◼
►
who has to read these thousand page long
[TS]
◼
►
book so I like I like a bit of that will
[TS]
◼
►
do it too yes but my kingdom for a
[TS]
◼
►
300-page book for pete's sake these
[TS]
◼
►
thousand-page books are going to kill me
[TS]
◼
►
so until next time on the incomparable
[TS]
◼
►
I'm Jason still and i would like to
[TS]
◼
►
thank my guests here around our little
[TS]
◼
►
table they're finishing your tea and the
[TS]
◼
►
scones right now serenity called well
[TS]
◼
►
thank you thank you Jason Scott McNulty
[TS]
◼
►
o earth tones forever earth tones
[TS]
◼
►
forever nice glad and Fleischmann thank
[TS]
◼
►
you for being here and reading this
[TS]
◼
►
thousand-page book with me thank you
[TS]
◼
►
very much and Dan Morgan thanks as
[TS]
◼
►
always as always you're welcome
[TS]
◼
►
you're so lucky to have been invited let
[TS]
◼
►
until next time on the incomparable
[TS]
◼
►
thanks to all of you for listening to
[TS]
◼
►
ok boys mhm alright so wow that really
[TS]
◼
►
that snaps out of it doesn't be ok
[TS]
◼
►
because it's okay well that's enough of
[TS]
◼
►
your silliness now get-get yes ma'am
[TS]
◼
►
that now and alright alright alright
[TS]
◼
►
boys for tonight on that that's the new
[TS]
◼
►
this podcast / goodnight
[TS]