The Incomparable

86: Like "Catcher in the Rye," Except Crappier


  in conquerable podcast number a desserts [TS]

  april twenty well [TS]

  we are back on the incomparable podcast [TS]

  I'm your host Jason scale and it is time [TS]

  to open another edition of our [TS]

  incomparable book club [TS]

  today's topic is magic and books about [TS]

  magical things specifically we've got [TS]

  two books that we're going to talk about [TS]

  that we're magic and magician ship [TS]

  features heavily and then we will [TS]

  probably have a little bit of time to [TS]

  branch out and talk about some other [TS]

  stuff to joining me on the incomparable [TS]

  book club tonight our Glenn fleischmann [TS]

  hi Glenn [TS]

  hello there to have you thank you for [TS]

  having me [TS]

  dan more'n Jason it's not magic it's an [TS]

  illusion [TS]

  Scott McNulty hello hello good to have [TS]

  you here i'll always a pleasure [TS]

  do you remember these books i remembers [TS]

  the titles [TS]

  ok excess Skylanders work Scott [TS]

  remembers words on a page i did read the [TS]

  village we look to you for title [TS]

  information and serenity Caldwell [TS]

  hello i am now speed reading reading [TS]

  through both these books because it has [TS]

  been so long since i read them [TS]

  simultaneously what everything yes [TS]

  simultaneous right hands you're flipping [TS]

  hmm well I have an iPhone an iPad I'm [TS]

  not gonna make the best use the space [TS]

  good good work good work alright so the [TS]

  two books were going to talk about it as [TS]

  our primary focus tonight are the Night [TS]

  Circus by Erin Morgenstern this is a [TS]

  book from 2011 it is actually started [TS]

  out its life as a national novel writing [TS]

  month novel which is very exciting and [TS]

  it has screech has gotten a lot of the [TS]

  claim and also the magicians by lev [TS]

  grossman which was published in 2009 and [TS]

  it also actually got some acclaim and he [TS]

  won an award for best up-and-coming [TS]

  writer from the hugo awards last year [TS]

  day and I'd a little-known fact actually [TS]

  left Grossman pen name of lex friedman I [TS]

  mean it's not true office this is not [TS]

  true although he is in our business he [TS]

  is the he is i believe the technology [TS]

  one of the technology reporters have a [TS]

  geek culture reporter if you have time [TS]

  magazine and a croton [TS]

  doing some reason about about the ipad [TS]

  came out and I i ended up reading the [TS]

  time magazine story about the ipad which [TS]

  was by lev grossman did he say was [TS]

  magical [TS]

  what I find strange about the ipad [TS]

  launch from web gross perspectives about [TS]

  halfway through the ipad entered a [TS]

  strange fantasy world [TS]

  Oh about halfway through the ipad got a [TS]

  lot better too [TS]

  ah alright so let's start with the [TS]

  magicians by let's review let's start [TS]

  we'll start there and I know that people [TS]

  have strong feelings about this novel [TS]

  but just to recap beyond the title which [TS]

  is the magician to Scott remembers [TS]

  correct yes k q haces God has fulfilled [TS]

  his behalf of his needs tonight right [TS]

  this is a book a kind of strange [TS]

  instructure I've heard it described by [TS]

  many people as being the foul-mouthed or [TS]

  dirty version of Harry Potter and that [TS]

  it is about a school for magic it's in [TS]

  the united states and not not in the UK [TS]

  it's just it's a school where people [TS]

  learn magical things except their foul [TS]

  mouth and and drink heavily and have sex [TS]

  with each other and other things that [TS]

  are not in harry potter it's it's the [TS]

  story of clinton who who lives in [TS]

  Brooklyn and is discovers there's this [TS]

  up by going by walking deeply back [TS]

  behind it like a garden inn in brooklyn [TS]

  and pushing through stuff stuff he ends [TS]

  up very very Narnia like very Lion the [TS]

  Witch and the Wardrobe like he ends up [TS]

  at this school brakebills which is the [TS]

  school for magicians and he takes some [TS]

  tests that are people peculiar and then [TS]

  he is enrolled in the school and time is [TS]

  out of sync and he meets people and [TS]

  there's a whole lot of school stuff and [TS]

  then there's a strange plot twist that [TS]

  leads to a whole other story about this [TS]

  strange magical world called Hillary so [TS]

  you know I um I know there are strong [TS]

  feelings about this novel so I'd like to [TS]

  I'd like to hear what you guys thought [TS]

  of it and let's start i'm not gonna [TS]

  start with Scott because maybe our [TS]

  discussions will remind him of things [TS]

  that happened in it [TS]

  shop some memories loose you can play [TS]

  along until then and start with that [TS]

  damn or and what what what are your [TS]

  thoughts were about the magician's you [TS]

  know a I think I think I talk to you [TS]

  really well I was well I was in the [TS]

  midst of it and found it you know rather [TS]

  lackluster to the point I think at that [TS]

  point I was about after two thirds of [TS]

  the way through and I think a lot of my [TS]

  problem with that is that the characters [TS]

  are so alienating and they're drawn in [TS]

  this very stereotypical talking about [TS]

  the book that reminded me the most of [TS]

  I'm trying to remember the name of it i [TS]

  think it was called the cheese monkeys [TS]

  by the chip kidd a4 chip kid yeah and so [TS]

  it's but it's got that same sort of [TS]

  that's about like a bunch of kids going [TS]

  to art school and so that's kind of what [TS]

  this reminded me of in a way is you've [TS]

  got all these kids who are really [TS]

  pretentious and I think that's what [TS]

  bothered me the most about it they're [TS]

  all kind of they're all kind of like [TS]

  layabouts and ne'er do wells to a [TS]

  certain extent especially Quentin the [TS]

  clicky sort of falls in with and not in [TS]

  the sense that they're all extremely [TS]

  wealthy or whatever but they're all you [TS]

  know they all do magic and so especially [TS]

  once they get out of out of brakebills [TS]

  and back into the real world [TS]

  I put quotes around that because they're [TS]

  like living in an apartment in Manhattan [TS]

  they don't have to work they have all [TS]

  the money they ever need is a magical [TS]

  right and so they spend all their time [TS]

  drinking and doing drugs and having sex [TS]

  and all that so um which is it's not [TS]

  terribly interesting because there's not [TS]

  really a plot going on at that point [TS]

  it's just these characters and [TS]

  unfortunately the characters again like [TS]

  I said I didn't [TS]

  they're not really like no they're not [TS]

  likeable I mean maybe alice is maybe [TS]

  like you never you never get insider say [TS]

  yeah but she's a mysterious other figure [TS]

  who maybe I think you feel sad for her [TS]

  more than anything yeah you know the [TS]

  other the other characters i mean we [TS]

  meet we meet these these characters and [TS]

  their older than a question and you get [TS]

  the sense that they're kind of already [TS]

  there [TS]

  they've been corrupted by the school and [TS]

  their cynical and and kind of unfriendly [TS]

  and the [TS]

  and-and-and there and Quentin and Alice [TS]

  are sort of like promoted into their [TS]

  year and so they're the younger ones and [TS]

  they're more innocent and and so through [TS]

  them you end up seeing these other [TS]

  characters who are more the another kind [TS]

  of hedonistic and they're very cynical [TS]

  and they're not particularly like when [TS]

  they've already got a sort of already [TS]

  have it [TS]

  politics between them and their arse [TS]

  history that's ugly of people who've [TS]

  loved and hated each other and it's a [TS]

  good kind of the whole thing it falls [TS]

  into this sort of trap of of clich├ęs in [TS]

  some way of you have these you know [TS]

  dissolute teenagers you think they're [TS]

  too cool for everything and like you [TS]

  have the the how everybody hates their [TS]

  parents right even like especially [TS]

  Quentin's parents that really struck me [TS]

  as his parents being really kind of an [TS]

  offensive and bland but he's somehow [TS]

  offended by that ineffectiveness but it [TS]

  struck me as not really having a [TS]

  well-defined reason or a you know like [TS]

  it just struck me as like a god it's an [TS]

  annoying teenager you know and and and [TS]

  maybe that's realistic but it sits at [TS]

  the same time just so boring to read is [TS]

  so dull harry potter went through that [TS]

  for an entire harry potter book and it [TS]

  was actually one of the more unpleasant [TS]

  things in here hotter series he spends [TS]

  the entire book being mad at everybody [TS]

  because he supposed to be sullen because [TS]

  he's a teenager and it's you know it may [TS]

  be realistic in one way but it just kind [TS]

  of sucks because it's just like you're a [TS]

  jerk [TS]

  why do I fiction for a reason yeah so [TS]

  Dan what you said was you were [TS]

  despairing but I did you didn't pick up [TS]

  at the end then it [TS]

  this is sort of two books right it's [TS]

  kind of like two totally different plot [TS]

  yes well it's like yeah there's a [TS]

  there's a book at the beginning which is [TS]

  really boring school [TS]

  well it's cool Quentin as a kid and [TS]

  whatever I even the part of sort of [TS]

  beginning where they get to fillory this [TS]

  this magical universe even that feels [TS]

  kind of shoddy because Aaron it haha [TS]

  yeah it is unclear right like whether [TS]

  this is a pastiche on the sort of narnia [TS]

  and and traditional fantasies or whether [TS]

  it's a actual honest like Ernest fantasy [TS]

  story right I've got to say something [TS]

  about that because [TS]

  when reading this book all I could think [TS]

  of was this is a kid who wrote Narnia [TS]

  fanfiction in high school wrote like 250 [TS]

  thousand words of it said well I [TS]

  obviously can't publish it because it's [TS]

  fanfiction let me sit on it a couple [TS]

  years and then a couple years later he [TS]

  comes up to it means like oh well maybe [TS]

  if I twerksum names around [TS]

  Hey look I've got a novel then it just [TS]

  so happens to be very clearly resemble i [TS]

  think yeah I think that was it felt like [TS]

  parody a community parents so earnest so [TS]

  it's no it's not understand i mean [TS]

  there's enough of a critique in there I [TS]

  feel like that he's trying to that I [TS]

  don't think it's particularly well [TS]

  executed critique but it's clearly [TS]

  ripping off but it's yeah it's so it's [TS]

  so heavy-handed it is very heavy-handed [TS]

  number an ember thing where it's like [TS]

  and then at the end they come and they [TS]

  always take the chat when children away [TS]

  and they have to go back to the world [TS]

  seems so unfair and I'm like that is [TS]

  someone reading rd and said why can't [TS]

  the kids stay there you know it's just [TS]

  this [TS]

  yeah doesn't add to its just like this [TS]

  complaint yeah I the the illusions are [TS]

  so heavy though like you know they talk [TS]

  about you know I think the older girl at [TS]

  some of the older chat when you're at [TS]

  some point and of course anybody who's [TS]

  read Narnia you know thanks immediately [TS]

  a Susan who is the one you know the one [TS]

  kid who is sort of at a later point just [TS]

  decide she's she's she's never coming [TS]

  back to Narnia guess she's just got the [TS]

  joints right ages out and which is one [TS]

  thing that many people are critical of [TS]

  in Lewis's work but i think that I grew [TS]

  Jason that this is this is intended more [TS]

  as Christie core a critique or pastiche [TS]

  or something like that [TS]

  I don't know if I'd go so far as to say [TS]

  it's parody because it doesn't quite [TS]

  work that way and it's not funny enough [TS]

  to be parody to me and not very [TS]

  necessarily to be funny but like well [TS]

  it's not it's not a parody of not sharp [TS]

  enough there is a pair of harry potter [TS]

  it does feel like if you take harry [TS]

  potter and narnia what what what really [TS]

  is happening here is he's he's trying to [TS]

  make some kind of commentary right while [TS]

  telling a story about that sort of like [TS]

  the the how clean some of these family [TS]

  beloved fantasy stories are versus sort [TS]

  of the dirtiness of reality and real [TS]

  people and real life and I feel that the [TS]

  school seems very strongly [TS]

  and in the scenes in the second half in [TS]

  fillory you know I feel like he's making [TS]

  some comments on on this idea of the [TS]

  children I mean you talk about the [TS]

  children visiting and IMF and the [TS]

  changes in time and all of that he is [TS]

  sort of making a comment about that [TS]

  especially given the fact that spoiler [TS]

  horn [TS]

  the the the bad guy ends up being one of [TS]

  the children who is bad because he [TS]

  doesn't want to leave and I but the but [TS]

  he doesn't he doesn't commit to it my [TS]

  problem is that it's not just the novel [TS]

  changes halfway through its that he [TS]

  doesn't commit to being either parody or [TS]

  critique and he's and that's what it [TS]

  feels like pastiche because it's a [TS]

  washing machine yeah he borrows [TS]

  everything he can I mean the fact that [TS]

  needed brakebills like that could be [TS]

  funny if he was really trying to [TS]

  Hogwarts parody but he doesn't it's he [TS]

  borrow it's like it's like oh I'm gonna [TS]

  make a little joke here and there an [TS]

  occasion i'm going to make a joke about [TS]

  Narnia or or harry potter i don't think [TS]

  it's a parody it's commentary it is [TS]

  saying this is unrealistic to expect [TS]

  people to behave the way they do in [TS]

  Harry Potter this is how they would [TS]

  behave but who wants to read a book [TS]

  about that well that may be but well I [TS]

  mean I and I think you could do that [TS]

  well I just not sure that this was done [TS]

  well my thing is that he steals the [TS]

  framework so he tries to eat he makes [TS]

  them in jokes he makes the reference and [TS]

  then it's like okay well not describe [TS]

  something works just like Harry Potter [TS]

  you know it works just like whores [TS]

  describing workers everyone's read [TS]

  Narnia so I'm just gonna go into the [TS]

  other thing ignore the fact that i [TS]

  created something I bring up all these [TS]

  things are always in jokes and create [TS]

  different names for everything and [TS]

  sometimes wink and nudge about Narnia or [TS]

  harry potter and then he moves on and [TS]

  you know we're talking about just those [TS]

  two there so many elements like brought [TS]

  in from every other book and movie you [TS]

  know there's bright lights big city in [TS]

  the New York seen practically there's [TS]

  there's a it's just I feel like it i [TS]

  think best each is the right word [TS]

  because I feel like they're 50 different [TS]

  bits and pieces of fantasy novels and [TS]

  magic novels and movies i mean i've felt [TS]

  like it was a terrible movie with your [TS]

  sensual a terrible movie with nicolas [TS]

  cage where sorcerer's apprentice right [TS]

  which I saw national richer conair yeah [TS]

  I don't know [TS]

  so has rich and famous sorcerers [TS]

  apprentice had the same field to me [TS]

  where they're like they're trying to [TS]

  reference stuff and they're sort of [TS]

  being funny and the sort of making no [TS]

  sense and it doesn't stand alone it's [TS]

  like Oh electricity allows us to perform [TS]

  magic except we say spells except [TS]

  there's there's a perfect part that [TS]

  explains this book for me which is early [TS]

  on they're doing some lecture and one of [TS]

  the professor says we don't know [TS]

  anything about the orange of origin of [TS]

  magic and he makes the it's Turtles all [TS]

  the way down story and it goes on about [TS]

  the turtles all the way down reference [TS]

  to hammer on the point that we don't [TS]

  because harry potter it's obviously a [TS]

  peep of his and the Harry Potter books [TS]

  they don't really look at where magic [TS]

  comes from comes from they just study it [TS]

  like empirical of scientists used to [TS]

  without setting the basis of you know [TS]

  reality or whatever and I feel like the [TS]

  same things come up here is you know it [TS]

  brings these things up because there is [TS]

  pet peeves he gets rid of them and then [TS]

  moves on just like you know you work [TS]

  through the harry potter thing whether [TS]

  should have been sex and drugs and [TS]

  violence and weird stuff at Hogwarts [TS]

  while we've done that now we're going to [TS]

  go into the narnia world and there [TS]

  should have been you know this and that [TS]

  and strange gods and so forth and then [TS]

  he does not i wanted to interject that I [TS]

  thought they were the the scene there's [TS]

  one scene that really stands out for me [TS]

  in the first half of the book which is [TS]

  the one point where if i'm sort of [TS]

  like-- lazily like asian through it and [TS]

  reading the one that made me sort of [TS]

  setup is the scene the first scene with [TS]

  the Beast weary antagonists and taxing [TS]

  best which i think is one of the best [TS]

  scenes yeah overall its original [TS]

  slightly yeah it's an original scene [TS]

  doesn't feel like anything else yeah [TS]

  it's really scary especially that last [TS]

  bit where it's like you have to go [TS]

  through the whole thing and it's kind of [TS]

  terrifying your kind of frozen and then [TS]

  again like they're like oh and nobody [TS]

  even noticed that this like student [TS]

  totally died and you're just like wait [TS]

  what [TS]

  but they never really be kind of cheats [TS]

  his way out of it never really goes you [TS]

  know back to that aspect of it right it [TS]

  gets put on hold so long but I was like [TS]

  maybe he just forgot it will never come [TS]

  up again but it did it got it does it [TS]

  does and I and I mean and I think that [TS]

  that's the part that's where the story [TS]

  starts to come around to me is towards [TS]

  the end I think it really took as far as [TS]

  they get into sort of this tomb right [TS]

  and I get up to the you know they find [TS]

  amber and they start interrogating him [TS]

  and you kind of realize that this is all [TS]

  a sort of a ploy and then they have to [TS]

  like them they're you know they're in [TS]

  there in deep crap right and they have [TS]

  to sort of get there [TS]

  out of it and it doesn't go well and [TS]

  that's the part where I started like [TS]

  okay I I kind of like that there's [TS]

  something at stake here and that things [TS]

  go really badly and that they have to [TS]

  dig themselves out this huge hole and I [TS]

  really sort of love the coda after that [TS]

  with the questing beast remove that that [TS]

  little short story in there where he [TS]

  wakes up after this huge battle and he's [TS]

  been asleep for like months are you know [TS]

  and he's his hair is gone white and so [TS]

  he's taking care of by all these [TS]

  centaurs kind of pity them and then he [TS]

  has to go off and search after this [TS]

  thing I love that little bit you know [TS]

  where that's a reference to by the way [TS]

  the again everything is the best teacher [TS]

  I like that part too very much i thought [TS]

  that was that one of the best parts of [TS]

  the book but the infernal desire [TS]

  machines of dr. Hoffman by angela carter [TS]

  with your friend gave me to read it's a [TS]

  terrifying and hilarious book and [TS]

  there's a bit with centaurs in it that [TS]

  is exceedingly disturbing to any [TS]

  rational mind and that scene in the book [TS]

  with the Centaurs is clearly an homage [TS]

  to it without being anywhere near as [TS]

  disturbing as national Carter's book I [TS]

  wanted to mention one other seen that I [TS]

  that I liked in a book which is the [TS]

  scene where at graduation they're all [TS]

  taken down into know ya levels below [TS]

  level level level and it's like outside [TS]

  the magical protection area and they all [TS]

  get tattoos that are essentially demons [TS]

  being inserted into them to protect them [TS]

  and it's this ritual and the Dean is [TS]

  sort of like I'm ok I'm gonna let you [TS]

  and now that you've graduated I'm gonna [TS]

  let you in on some of the last secrets i [TS]

  thought that was really evocative there [TS]

  are a few scenes like that that you did [TS]

  you like wow there are some elements of [TS]

  a really good book that was not real you [TS]

  know what the will the scene that stands [TS]

  alone for me that was the best the [TS]

  Antarctica seen I loved that scene I [TS]

  thought the whole thing it was so gritty [TS]

  it was so disconnected from the rest of [TS]

  the book it was so it actually had I [TS]

  would say compelling sex even though was [TS]

  between foxes I thought that the other [TS]

  sex is whole thing about being sex and [TS]

  drugs and alcohol and the book isn't [TS]

  very interesting throughout and I [TS]

  thought that got more to sort of like [TS]

  raw elemental stuff than anything else [TS]

  in the book and it it's a fascinating [TS]

  little snippet and when they get back to [TS]

  brakebills I'm like ah that parts over [TS]

  that part was actually really strong [TS]

  well the part it takes them out of their [TS]

  reality to serve [TS]

  extending them out of the context and [TS]

  also you're taking them out of their [TS]

  board disaffected human minds and [TS]

  putting them in animals and things like [TS]

  that and like oh no you can't talk to [TS]

  each other so you can't complain about [TS]

  how bored you are i don't know it feels [TS]

  like to create a quote from louis ck [TS]

  here everything is awesome and nobody is [TS]

  happy where it's like you were going to [TS]

  a school for magic and you're still [TS]

  gonna be all the time and yes [TS]

  admittedly if he wants to make a you [TS]

  know if if Grossman's idea is to make a [TS]

  story about how magic really just causes [TS]

  trouble and makes people unhappy you [TS]

  know there are elements in there there's [TS]

  like the parents seen we get to see what [TS]

  else's parents who are just these people [TS]

  who have oh yeah well you you take the [TS]

  this is what disaffected people turn [TS]

  into when they have all the power at [TS]

  their hands and they just going into [TS]

  themselves into crazy this book actually [TS]

  kind of reminds me of Catcher in the Rye [TS]

  except with magic and crappier and Carla [TS]

  know we'll listen for a second because [TS]

  like a lot of people this catcher in the [TS]

  rye because of the you know disaffected [TS]

  nature of the protagonist but i would [TS]

  say the tone or at least a tone that [TS]

  Grossman is trying to achieve i think is [TS]

  similar to catcher in the rye his [TS]

  catcher in the rye is a very affecting [TS]

  book even though it's narrator is a bit [TS]

  of an ass [TS]

  well that's why I'm not criticizing this [TS]

  I'm saying that you know comparing this [TS]

  to catch on the rise like you know [TS]

  comparing the rock to you know the [TS]

  tempest you know i got it will take [TS]

  place on Islands you know I mean they [TS]

  have similar themes not necessarily that [TS]

  they're similar tears of literature [TS]

  no yeah I'm gonna backups ready because [TS]

  I thought that was the missing the the [TS]

  structural problem for me was if you [TS]

  want to explore what happens when you [TS]

  have infinite aura now relatively [TS]

  infinite power compared to other people [TS]

  and what happens the corruption and [TS]

  harry potter and despite someone [TS]

  dimensionality of it throughout the the [TS]

  conflict between having power and being [TS]

  forced to restrain and the the [TS]

  mechanisms in the Harry Potter universe [TS]

  beat that even though sometimes we just [TS]

  presented as parodies of British [TS]

  bureaucracy there are checks and [TS]

  balances you must do something useful [TS]

  with yourself or sort of retire back [TS]

  into the magical world you can't go out [TS]

  and just sort of screw around in this [TS]

  world the rules don't seem to apply and [TS]

  you wonder why [TS]

  more things aren't going awry and people [TS]

  have different amounts of power and he [TS]

  never explores the it's not a great [TS]

  responsibility comes you know with great [TS]

  power thing it's more like he doesn't [TS]

  explore the ethical limits of having no [TS]

  check someone's actions [TS]

  it's just uh well we can do anything we [TS]

  want so we're all going to collapse and [TS]

  ennui [TS]

  or become despite and so that whole last [TS]

  seen right where he's he's after he's [TS]

  escaped from Philadelphia she decides 30 [TS]

  yeah he decides to go work in this Fermi [TS]

  doesn't really do anything he draws a [TS]

  paycheck he sits around in his office [TS]

  and plays video games all day is really [TS]

  nice office that he's just sort of [TS]

  convince people to give them and I mean [TS]

  I don't know it you sort of sad it's [TS]

  difficult thing and I think that you [TS]

  know I think the ending of this book is [TS]

  fairly contentious in some ways [TS]

  especially the you know very end of it [TS]

  where he essentially decides why the [TS]

  heck not [TS]

  I'll go back with all my friends to this [TS]

  you know terrible face that we barely [TS]

  escaped with our lives because at least [TS]

  it's more exciting than what the hell [TS]

  I'm doing here [TS]

  that makes no sense to me oh I thought [TS]

  they had established some meaning that [TS]

  they had meeting and resolve and that's [TS]

  why he went with him as opposed to hey [TS]

  let's go have fun it was like no these [TS]

  were kick-ass people and figure out some [TS]

  way to scrape some meeting and looking [TS]

  at them he's like alright maybe there is [TS]

  something to do I was gonna love it if [TS]

  you know they had connected the [TS]

  characters more but I feel like by the [TS]

  end of the book maybe i just read it to [TS]

  sleep by the end after he goes on the [TS]

  questing beast thing [TS]

  it kind of feels like oh I'm done with [TS]

  this chapter in my life I'm closing off [TS]

  magic forever [TS]

  I'm gonna go work in an office and be [TS]

  completely you know just simply [TS]

  dissolute about this i mean even meets [TS]

  up with somebody who was a former which [TS]

  is also working at this firm in doing [TS]

  nothing and they have coffee and it's [TS]

  and it's very much it feels like after [TS]

  that scene after the you know the coffee [TS]

  or the beer scene that he feels you know [TS]

  completely uninterested about anything [TS]

  in the magical world and then two scenes [TS]

  later he's like yeah I'm gonna go to [TS]

  fillory why not well but there is a nice [TS]

  there is a nice train there because the [TS]

  reason that you know the reason that [TS]

  that woman is also there is that she [TS]

  also sort of caused the death of someone [TS]

  write that she was really close to in [TS]

  the same way that when you put himself [TS]

  in danger and had to be rescued by Alice [TS]

  who essentially you know commited [TS]

  suicide to save them and so they're sort [TS]

  of the argument at the end there is if [TS]

  they gave our lives for us [TS]

  like you know what we better make our [TS]

  lives worthwhile right I think that's [TS]

  sort of the that is the thing that sort [TS]

  of i think saves that upswing at the end [TS]

  a little bit is not so much that you [TS]

  know [TS]

  oh I guess I have nothing better to do [TS]

  than go back in this world is more of a [TS]

  well if we don't do something then you [TS]

  know that their deaths didn't mean [TS]

  anything [TS]

  this is also a story that is about in it [TS]

  if you had to say was about one thing I [TS]

  would say it's it's about Narnia and [TS]

  it's about the books and the concept so [TS]

  even in the beginning you know he's [TS]

  pushing through essentially the Wardrobe [TS]

  to get brakebills he's obsessed with [TS]

  these books they read as a kid they end [TS]

  up going to this world because it turns [TS]

  out to be real which I really enjoyed [TS]

  that part that it that the fact that [TS]

  wait a second [TS]

  hilary is real after all and at the end [TS]

  you know it's a Narnia is a series and [TS]

  and there's detail about the fillory [TS]

  series 2 and they keep the kids keep [TS]

  going back right so I felt like you had [TS]

  to have them go back at the end because [TS]

  that's what it's about is they go back [TS]

  to the magic land they that you just [TS]

  that's how these books work as they go [TS]

  back to what I view that is at a [TS]

  meta-level that to that don't of course [TS]

  they have to go back [TS]

  that's when it's not everybody gets to [TS]

  go back right right [TS]

  maybe they had that last scene 2 because [TS]

  if he'll head and throwing himself [TS]

  through that glass window and he [TS]

  couldn't save Trinity only a minute yeah [TS]

  it was very matrix at the end wasn't [TS]

  that was like a scene from the matrix [TS]

  but they need cinnamon that was that was [TS]

  the ok and then to get this the option [TS]

  i'd have this scene at the end so goes [TS]

  the movie with but I sort of had another [TS]

  kind of like that because it was it was [TS]

  I thought it through off some of the [TS]

  ennui it's like you know you know it's [TS]

  they could have ended this sort of you [TS]

  know at the end of one hour under you [TS]

  like the end of Brazil you know he's [TS]

  gone insane and and in these dead to the [TS]

  world and we're still a dystopia it's [TS]

  like now this guy goes alright I'm gonna [TS]

  throw myself out the window and is I i [TS]

  can do magic [TS]

  why am I here i'm gonna do that and I [TS]

  yeah a good at least there wasn't [TS]

  originally like an epilogue where it's [TS]

  like you're the the bystanders walking [TS]

  by see this guy plummet to his death [TS]

  from not thank you [TS]

  and I really want to pull the garbage [TS]

  out for dinner someone cast a spell [TS]

  silence over Scott McNulty we have to [TS]

  release him from it yes got to remember [TS]

  this book now [TS]

  uh well to be fair I did read it three [TS]

  years ago [TS]

  so how didn't I tell you all that the [TS]

  new button on you don't know I I was [TS]

  just trying to recall any of these [TS]

  details and all I remember about the [TS]

  book was that the first part i [TS]

  completely forgot they went to a magical [TS]

  land and I remember the ending with the [TS]

  exploding window so i really like the [TS]

  entire moving it may be a good point [TS]

  though that there really are these two [TS]

  these two movements and you remember the [TS]

  school stuff and there's this cool stuff [TS]

  and then there's the magic land and when [TS]

  I was talking to my wife afterward i [TS]

  read this book and a and then I was [TS]

  talking to her about this crazy book [TS]

  that I read and I said you know as an [TS]

  editor I look at this and think this [TS]

  should have been two books [TS]

  this should've been there would there [TS]

  was it should have been cut into and [TS]

  then both of them needed some work right [TS]

  there should have been a book one that [TS]

  was the magician's at school book one [TS]

  would have been incredibly boring [TS]

  well it needed a climax there was no [TS]

  climax in that part of the book he [TS]

  rushed through it too there's that one [TS]

  point where he's like he's like oh wait [TS]

  a minute 14 months just passed and we [TS]

  don't know anybody how do we not make [TS]

  any friends it was like there's a bit [TS]

  when they say that like yeah how do we [TS]

  not make any friends for the last year [TS]

  and a half and you're like oh this is [TS]

  that dream when you wake up and you [TS]

  forgot to go to school for a year is [TS]

  what it is so you you you know you you [TS]

  can change the shape of a little bit too [TS]

  but you have a little more of a climax [TS]

  and whether that's the Antarctica stuff [TS]

  or it's something else that climax with [TS]

  them graduate more more quidditch I mean [TS]

  Welters yes exactly [TS]

  there could just run is a nap and I felt [TS]

  like that would have been an interesting [TS]

  book and then the second but it the [TS]

  second half feels like a totally [TS]

  different book which is hey you remember [TS]

  all that fillory stuff it turns out that [TS]

  it's real i will have an adventure there [TS]

  he could have built more I if you [TS]

  expanded the first part with school he [TS]

  could have really interested in that [TS]

  hole fillory thing a little more so it [TS]

  would have been more shocking for the [TS]

  second book like oh my god it really is [TS]

  real but you do it now [TS]

  now so that that's that and that struck [TS]

  me about it that it just it felt like [TS]

  this would [TS]

  of I think works better because it feels [TS]

  like two unfinished books if it had been [TS]

  split into and been more finished and I [TS]

  think because there's a lot of good [TS]

  stuff in here but it does feel like you [TS]

  know and this happens with novels a lot [TS]

  is you know you write a novel and it [TS]

  people will either publish it or they [TS]

  won't and it's not that off that common [TS]

  that somebody will say I like it but it [TS]

  needs a lot of work and you should [TS]

  probably break it into and you should do [TS]

  this and just do that now if you like [TS]

  this is one of those cases where just [TS]

  cried out for somebody to say left this [TS]

  is great stuff [TS]

  you're very talented we need to do some [TS]

  work on it and it seems like that didn't [TS]

  happen you know why would I wouldn't [TS]

  compare this in terms of plot or or [TS]

  scale but the on the series of wonderful [TS]

  books the blue Mars rover him Stanley [TS]

  Robinson yeah tread marks cream learning [TS]

  more wonderful series of books and Mars [TS]

  tomorrow one of the most appropriate [TS]

  Mars blue Mars and Mars blue eyes what [TS]

  do you see the the thing about that [TS]

  books characters incredibly richly drawn [TS]

  characters some of them start out [TS]

  extremely disinfected and sullen or even [TS]

  you're angry at them are there they kill [TS]

  people or whatever enters and evolution [TS]

  through the book whereby they live for [TS]

  like 200 years so yeah that's a nice [TS]

  little gimmick might explain why i could [TS]

  never finish that book takes to twitter [TS]

  year so it's a beautiful is a beautiful [TS]

  serious reading maybe we'll do an [TS]

  episode on it but the but I mean there's [TS]

  the evolution of character you can have [TS]

  disaffected characters like I thought [TS]

  the turning point was going to be with [TS]

  Quentin and Alice like you know they had [TS]

  that they're both disaffected Alice had [TS]

  reasons actually a deep dark secrets and [TS]

  Gretchen was just sort of a you know [TS]

  jerky Brooklyn k just didn't appreciate [TS]

  what he had been their magic but after [TS]

  Antarctica i thought was going to happen [TS]

  is ok this is the crucible we've gone [TS]

  through a lot they go through America [TS]

  they both have learned more about each [TS]

  other and themselves and they're the [TS]

  only two and five years like the boxes [TS]

  there some foxes and they do that death [TS]

  marks that bit that one of the best [TS]

  moments the book the funniest thing is [TS]

  they come back upon the portal back to [TS]

  brakebills from Antarctica everyone is [TS]

  sitting around and they're like you two [TS]

  are the only idiots who did that [TS]

  optional voluntary death march to the [TS]

  pole but that's what i thought that was [TS]

  the crucible and then you're going to [TS]

  have this different thing where resolve [TS]

  and different and they realize [TS]

  and now there's still the same kind of [TS]

  party around kids that they were before [TS]

  yeah would have been really nice to [TS]

  actually see them get to the point where [TS]

  oh yes we've embraced what we're doing [TS]

  and we're really invested in it and then [TS]

  you take it you go back to New York you [TS]

  have the slow sort of degradation the [TS]

  idea that oh yeah back now that you're [TS]

  back in the real world everything is [TS]

  sort of crunching on in on you and I [TS]

  think actually he has a really [TS]

  interesting motif throughout the book [TS]

  with the sort of the real world versus [TS]

  the magic world and going back to the [TS]

  magic world i mean not only do you have [TS]

  it sort of the main characters but you [TS]

  have it with the main antagonist you [TS]

  have it with Martin and then you also [TS]

  have sort of a weird foreshadowing with [TS]

  Quentin's original non-magic world [TS]

  classmate Julia who gets in for like the [TS]

  first two rounds of tests at brakebills [TS]

  and then gets booted out and is [TS]

  convinced that she's gone crazy [TS]

  yes exactly because she remembers even [TS]

  though they tried to wipe her memory [TS]

  about it and so she just goes around and [TS]

  like she wants to get back into that [TS]

  world and she even assaults question at [TS]

  one point being like yeah I'm gonna get [TS]

  back and you know you if you contrast [TS]

  that with the Martin Chatwin stuff like [TS]

  there's there's the underpinnings of a [TS]

  really interesting book about the [TS]

  disillusionment of magic and what [TS]

  happens when you try and go back to a [TS]

  world that you can't quite fit into and [TS]

  that like that could be really really [TS]

  well paired with growing up and stuff [TS]

  like that but instead it for me it just [TS]

  feels like a bunch of dissolute pieces [TS]

  that are kind of plopped down together [TS]

  side-by-side and like if you try and [TS]

  connect the dots you can sort of see the [TS]

  narrative but I was really offended by [TS]

  one thing in the book I mean really [TS]

  quite so which is when Martin challans [TS]

  sister a laser system judge is this is [TS]

  genuine jane says you know you shouldn't [TS]

  judge my bar my brother too harshly [TS]

  after all [TS]

  plover the author of the fillory and you [TS]

  know whatever books was doodling [TS]

  everything God and I'm like oh come on [TS]

  you throw that in this moment we [TS]

  supposed to excuse somebody you know [TS]

  it's like it's like saying well Paul [TS]

  Pott you know his parents used to beat [TS]

  him it's like yeah but you know I don't [TS]

  go and kill it [TS]

  this is that didn't bother me because I [TS]

  didn't read that as being legitimately [TS]

  excusing his behavior so much as [TS]

  sensitive [TS]

  much as tearing apart the the author and [TS]

  saying you know this author was actually [TS]

  an awful human being but what'll I do [TS]

  see ya there very gotta put the detailed [TS]

  the same extraneous me and I I agreed [TS]

  sort of it it made me you know raise an [TS]

  eyebrow just like you couldn't resist [TS]

  turning that into something but I mean [TS]

  it didn't bother you a didn't bother me [TS]

  from the same way as being an excuse so [TS]

  much it just seems like a ok [TS]

  why isn't there like yes I understand [TS]

  your point that in the scene [TS]

  I mean it's a lot of the explicit stuff [TS]

  throws in is just seems like it's some [TS]

  for shock value like there's an fairly [TS]

  early on with Elliot right where we're [TS]

  quite and stumbles across him involved [TS]

  in some sort of you know homosexual [TS]

  tryst or whatever and you know that [TS]

  informs us to a certain extent about his [TS]

  character but you know at the same time [TS]

  it seems you know unnecessarily graphic [TS]

  or just don't dare to try and shock [TS]

  people right it could have been done [TS]

  better there's a movie prick up your [TS]

  ears about Jordan the playwright and [TS]

  there's a bit where after he wins a big [TS]

  award he goes into it you know [TS]

  aloo in England and manner all over him [TS]

  and it's like and that was sort of it [TS]

  was a contrast and terrifying and useful [TS]

  and exploration of the characters as [TS]

  opposed to let's degrade this guy while [TS]

  the guy peeps his head up and then no [TS]

  okay now we know all about it let's go [TS]

  and talk about it anymore [TS]

  yeah just ties into the book as in [TS]

  general where it feels like Grossman [TS]

  kind of got carte blanc to do whatever [TS]

  he wanted in this book and occasionally [TS]

  he takes it too far and there wasn't [TS]

  that you know it [TS]

  no no offense to his editors but there's [TS]

  I it feels like there wasn't that hand [TS]

  being like love love what did you told [TS]

  that back a little bit so I to if we if [TS]

  we would sum up the reaction here it [TS]

  sounds like there's a lot of interesting [TS]

  stuff in this book but that it's really [TS]

  got a lot of flaws [TS]

  there's a lot to slog through to get to [TS]

  the interesting huh yeah and it makes me [TS]

  really mad to think about it i would [TS]

  even weeks later and ready for a ready [TS]

  for the magician's the Phantom edit and [TS]

  i'm going to read that one huh well you [TS]

  can tell the sequel magician kings which [TS]

  is available in bookstores near he heard [TS]

  that I heard that might make me angry i [TS]

  retired some people say that they liked [TS]

  it better and then other people said [TS]

  that it raged them and they liked the [TS]

  first one and the second one so i really [TS]

  don't know what to think I i haven't [TS]

  read it for that reason I will say [TS]

  something for that which we haven't said [TS]

  which is actually a pretty good writer [TS]

  he is interesting i think his character [TS]

  strong but you know I don't [TS]

  the book that I'm not bored or just [TS]

  irritated by this one actually maybe [TS]

  sort of angry about it and I think of [TS]

  opening a strong emotional reaction is [TS]

  actually you know that makes it [TS]

  worthwhile i don't like it i'm not sure [TS]

  i'd recommend other people that I still [TS]

  commend him for writing in a fashion [TS]

  that actually enraged me instead of [TS]

  bored me i liked it i mean i want you i [TS]

  I think it's flawed but i enjoyed [TS]

  reading it and I think it could could [TS]

  have been better [TS]

  absolutely but some of these scenes will [TS]

  stick with me and I you know I i enjoyed [TS]

  the ride and I didn't mind that the [TS]

  characters were unlikable because that [TS]

  was ok with me that they weren't they [TS]

  weren't likable it's true that but I [TS]

  don't know I i enjoyed it [TS]

  I've read all those Narnia books I mean [TS]

  I it's no sin for character to be [TS]

  unlikable is my feeling it's a it's a [TS]

  sin for them to be unlikable and [TS]

  uninteresting [TS]

  I mean I'm not saying that's necessarily [TS]

  the case here but I think about you just [TS]

  too and generally people people often [TS]

  criticized you know like madmen for [TS]

  having like characters they're full of [TS]

  Michael people like yeah they're [TS]

  unlikable that's true but they're [TS]

  interesting in and so dislike them that [TS]

  you don't like dislike them on the [TS]

  screen but you can't stop watching them [TS]

  with supporting cast in the magician's [TS]

  is not strong supporting cast their eyes [TS]

  yeah besides you know the sort of few [TS]

  main characters i think there's there's [TS]

  very few that stand out all the [TS]

  professor's become interchangeable and I [TS]

  think that's probably also a failed sort [TS]

  of thrust harry potter am and I was [TS]

  going to ask if anyone does anyone have [TS]

  a favorite character or they all equally [TS]

  unlikable because i have a favorite [TS]

  character bicurious anyone else does [TS]

  and I'm thinking oh yeah i would go with [TS]

  a second i can't remember his name [TS]

  because it was long in Russian but the [TS]

  guy that Antarctica the guy never mind i [TS]

  think i think he was the most [TS]

  interesting he has very very little [TS]

  dialogue but he was in compelling [TS]

  character especially sort of filling his [TS]

  backstory later and go ahead when I like [TS]

  I like penny because parents would text [TS]

  workable and crazy and turns out to find [TS]

  the key the key plot element into sorta [TS]

  he's easygoing as I went along nemesis [TS]

  and yet he becomes actually vitally [TS]

  important right but he he is kind of his [TS]

  own plot like he's in a whole different [TS]

  story and his whole don't think anybody [TS]

  would be very interesting because at the [TS]

  end of your weekend really badly [TS]

  yeah and he's got fake hands and he [TS]

  opens his hands he goes he reads books [TS]

  for the rest of his life apparently it's [TS]

  a totally different life than everyone [TS]

  else in the book but but what I like [TS]

  about that character is his interaction [TS]

  with Quinn I mean basically there's a [TS]

  there is a great scene where there [TS]

  you've set this guy up as well i kind of [TS]

  don't like him and but I'm sure I [TS]

  whatever i'm not going to pay attention [TS]

  to him and then penny kinda like walks [TS]

  out of the school building and walks [TS]

  right up to Quinton and places with the [TS]

  notes and they get in a fight and I [TS]

  liked that too that it's like we're over [TS]

  at the Magic School and like I don't [TS]

  like this guy will [TS]

  well in harry potter it's like Oh mouth [TS]

  boy you better watch out [TS]

  and in this it's like no I'm gonna punch [TS]

  you in the face and there's something [TS]

  about that way with penny that he was [TS]

  very direct very direct fellow i'm just [TS]

  going to punish you now [TS]

  yeah it's in your boys sense to me yeah [TS]

  I don't know about that it was but it [TS]

  was amusing you know don't enjoy it [TS]

  enjoy it anyway he's in his own book [TS]

  yeah he's reading for the pools in the [TS]

  in the little place that's between the [TS]

  world [TS]

  ok let's move on to the Night Circus by [TS]

  Erin Morgenstern I this is from last [TS]

  year [TS]

  this is like I said it's a national [TS]

  novel writing month book originally she [TS]

  didn't know what to do with your [TS]

  characters so she sent them to the [TS]

  circus and then aha [TS]

  the circus might be an interesting [TS]

  subject for a book so this is a you know [TS]

  a story set in mostly in and around [TS]

  London although not it's also in Europe [TS]

  in the in the united states there to [TS]

  time frames in it which is kind of [TS]

  surprising and interesting arguably [TS]

  three wedding and how yeah I suppose [TS]

  that I suppose that's true [TS]

  it's basically about these two people [TS]

  Celia and marco who are chosen as [TS]

  players in a game between two older [TS]

  gentleman who are playing a long game [TS]

  that we don't know the details of and [TS]

  and Celia and marco are the players and [TS]

  so they're sort of set against each [TS]

  other and in a game that that you know [TS]

  nobody knows the rules of and magic is [TS]

  at the center of it and and and there's [TS]

  a creation of a circus and there are [TS]

  lots of circus people all of whom are [TS]

  doing magical things and it's a it's [TS]

  just a strange and I evocative and I [TS]

  thought really charming charming book [TS]

  and I I liked it a lot [TS]

  so what do you guys think has anybody [TS]

  ever watched the same way ever watch the [TS]

  HBO show carnevale new episodes remind [TS]

  you about a lot of the tone that that's [TS]

  much darker and much more disturbed but [TS]

  it also takes place at a traveling [TS]

  carnival and also involves sort of a [TS]

  that's more of a good and evil Battle [TS]

  like but there is also an element of [TS]

  magic well up to it but I mean it'sit's [TS]

  distinct but the tone reminded me of a [TS]

  lot and I like carnival a lot and I like [TS]

  the night circus a lot as well it sort [TS]

  of reminded me of that but set in a you [TS]

  know Jonathan strange and mr normal [TS]

  universe to allude to another [TS]

  yeah right look right it's this [TS]

  Victorian so you got the Victorian areas [TS]

  it's like the late eighteen hundreds and [TS]

  early nineteen hundreds and and so [TS]

  you've got that tone which is really [TS]

  nice you've got like English you know [TS]

  big English kind of manner buildings and [TS]

  rooms and things and then the circus [TS]

  structure and the Traveling Circus and [TS]

  there's there's magic and the magic [TS]

  that's done is interesting and that [TS]

  they're like kinds of magic and they're [TS]

  they're very limited things that they [TS]

  can do with the way that they make their [TS]

  magic in this circus that they that they [TS]

  build and then they have the different [TS]

  talents of the the others that the [TS]

  person who construct the the the clock [TS]

  that's at the circus it's just it's a [TS]

  mean there's a lot in there but it's and [TS]

  at its core two are these two characters [TS]

  who are on a collision course with one [TS]

  another from the very beginning you know [TS]

  it [TS]

  in contrast with magicians the amount of [TS]

  supporting characters in this book is [TS]

  huge and I feel like almost every single [TS]

  one of them is very well fleshed out [TS]

  whether we get a point of view chapter [TS]

  from them or not it's it's really [TS]

  interesting the amount of sort of [TS]

  different sub sections that we go into [TS]

  inside the book because you get the [TS]

  overarch the overarching story is [TS]

  basically a love story disguised as a [TS]

  competition which is fascinating but you [TS]

  also have you have the undercurrent of [TS]

  the person who basically puts on the [TS]

  circus who is more or less unaware until [TS]

  later on that he is basically being [TS]

  played as part of a competition but you [TS]

  have this whole section where he's [TS]

  basically planning how to build the [TS]

  circus and you get into his mind like a [TS]

  producer even though you never even you [TS]

  never get a point-of-view character for [TS]

  this for this person you only get him [TS]

  through the eyes of Marco who's [TS]

  basically become his his assistant in [TS]

  order to manipulate aspects of the [TS]

  circus but his his whole track and the [TS]

  track of the other sort of patrons of [TS]

  the circus are that that track is [TS]

  fascinating [TS]

  I thought it was a beautiful book and I [TS]

  agree with run out of the characters [TS]

  means even the minor ones are richly [TS]

  fleshed out and it seemed both spare and [TS]

  full of details so you could be part of [TS]

  it was fasting that later that it was a [TS]

  night circus is open at night and things [TS]

  are either white or black often and read [TS]

  was used as that theme to identify the [TS]

  people are sort of became associated [TS]

  with and traveled with to see the circus [TS]

  but and the red is the color of one of [TS]

  the twins hair is born at midnight when [TS]

  the bonfires lived in the bonfire is [TS]

  multicolored and there's just don't know [TS]

  everything was it felt like it was full [TS]

  of imagery and symbolism but without [TS]

  anyone having to take upon a specific [TS]

  heavy-handed being and even the fact [TS]

  that i always liked books that involve [TS]

  magic or even sometimes science fiction [TS]

  where the issues are dispensed with [TS]

  really fast so we don't actually really [TS]

  care what the basis of magic is in this [TS]

  book it's not discussed it sort of waved [TS]

  away but it feels a realistic in the [TS]

  sense that it's consistent and it arises [TS]

  out of effort and will in a way that is [TS]

  consistent among all the characters [TS]

  involved throughout the book [TS]

  and I like the the light touch their [TS]

  let's treat it like a craft craft right [TS]

  everything kind of makes sense in the [TS]

  way that a certain things happen in the [TS]

  plot and there's a lot of kids a lot of [TS]

  books to read and you'd be like well why [TS]

  didn't this thing do this at this point [TS]

  you know I was thinking particular i [TS]

  just finished this book earlier the [TS]

  before the recording here so I'm [TS]

  thinking in particular the ending where [TS]

  you know sort of the circus has been [TS]

  suspended [TS]

  well as issues are worked out and are [TS]

  one of our protagonist from the other [TS]

  timeline a young young man was sort of [TS]

  being chosen to be the next proprietor [TS]

  of the circus [TS]

  he's sort of going around investigating [TS]

  why everyone is sort of frozen in the [TS]

  circus and there's one person who is [TS]

  there to sort of breed him that the [TS]

  contortionist and so so they can't [TS]

  the question is why is she able to walk [TS]

  around with nobody elses and you know [TS]

  the answer is well she's sort of a [TS]

  magician in her own right [TS]

  it's not important that we know the [TS]

  mechanics exactly haha she was immune to [TS]

  their power is based on this message was [TS]

  like oh she kinda knows magic [TS]

  yeah it makes sense of it doesn't need [TS]

  the detail and she was in the end it's [TS]

  the balance of the love story there's so [TS]

  many balanced forces of sort of love and [TS]

  jealousy and loss and there are neatly [TS]

  arranged so you're just like oh of [TS]

  course she's the one she's the one that [TS]

  was gradually revealed that she been a [TS]

  competitor in a previous round of this [TS]

  competition and so it makes sense and [TS]

  the kid who is sort of brought us a [TS]

  prior like his need for change in just [TS]

  had the fact that he comes along is that [TS]

  happenstance things happen in the book [TS]

  for what seemed to be accidental reasons [TS]

  but there's almost a purpose or fate [TS]

  behind them and you just accept that [TS]

  because it's part i mean the book is all [TS]

  about everything being balanced and [TS]

  whatever the balance goes off there's a [TS]

  great scene you know relatively in the [TS]

  book where the lover of Marcos lover [TS]

  realizes that he never really loved her [TS]

  and it over not a horrible way she [TS]

  doesn't you know go totally nuts but she [TS]

  had learned enough magic to keep both [TS]

  Marco and his opponent in balance and [TS]

  she unravels that and then the book [TS]

  starts to wind up the clock starts to [TS]

  spring start to pop out basically and [TS]

  things start to happen sorry good better [TS]

  for it and the flies all over the place [TS]

  but it was [TS]

  it made perfect sense it's like she was [TS]

  so the linchpin is is various people are [TS]

  in love and the clockmaker being in love [TS]

  with don't forget her name with the with [TS]

  Celia that's a that's a lovely bit [TS]

  though the fact that clock maker who I [TS]

  you know supposed to be slightly older I [TS]

  guess and they have some kind of love [TS]

  affair but it's not it's not as deep as [TS]

  the one with Marco but she loves him in [TS]

  a certain way and that doesn't become [TS]

  this strange twisted thing it's just [TS]

  part of all the mechanics of the of the [TS]

  you can kind of get away with that in a [TS]

  Victorian gettin awful [TS]

  that's right yeah i think it's also [TS]

  almost an intellectual of a fair mother [TS]

  has any kind of physical thing because [TS]

  he is you know he happens to be the [TS]

  maker of the clock and then he also ends [TS]

  up being basically the voice for the [TS]

  circus to the general public who wants [TS]

  to know more about it is the divorce fan [TS]

  yeah 100 feet I'm your biggest and then [TS]

  he's interviewing him he created his boy [TS]

  he's killed in the clinic starts the [TS]

  Clippers killed in the clock starts the [TS]

  one down right [TS]

  ok that is one of the that that is a [TS]

  affecting scene 2 which is how it's [TS]

  beautiful [TS]

  can I just say I love I mean she's for a [TS]

  first-time rider she has a impeccable [TS]

  control over the language in terms of [TS]

  however loss places except for not such [TS]

  a loser for what purpose places she's [TS]

  continually gluing to set in dialogues [TS]

  will continually good two sentences [TS]

  together with a comma which is I think [TS]

  done for painting but it drives me [TS]

  insane with it [TS]

  well that she's a she's a beautiful [TS]

  writer and and with the exception of her [TS]

  comma splices which I I think you might [TS]

  be able to forgive as a style choice he [TS]

  received overly intention language so [TS]

  that way there's no way and editors [TS]

  gonna let that many of them go [TS]

  it's like yeah you're doing comma [TS]

  splices but really I got to talk to live [TS]

  Grossman about his book to read [TS]

  I don't get ready first-time novelists [TS]

  who are very few with this beauty that [TS]

  um what's the one who wrote the hundred [TS]

  thousand kingdoms NK jemisin yeah [TS]

  yes i returned to you for all the names [TS]

  you always i mentioned how much I love [TS]

  the book on Twitter and lisas [TS]

  spangenberg who's an author and editor [TS]

  she went with her friend she said that [TS]

  the book was actually workshop not just [TS]

  on [TS]

  nanowrimo but on what's called aww is an [TS]

  author's forum that people use and she [TS]

  was apparently great participate in it [TS]

  and listen to suggestions and is [TS]

  incredibly generous with her time now [TS]

  after the book is coming out so [TS]

  interesting that it just it has that [TS]

  sense of having been you know you think [TS]

  it's someone's fourth book but the IMF [TS]

  is the first she wrote you know [TS]

  sometimes people have the first as we [TS]

  all know first and second in the drawer [TS]

  the third is the first one is published [TS]

  but it does feel like a mature novelist [TS]

  so I read a criticism of this book from [TS]

  somebody just you know people on the [TS]

  internet people who don't like this book [TS]

  seemed to not like it because they say [TS]

  well it's all just descriptions of [TS]

  things and nothing much happens because [TS]

  it was so much the scribing of items and [TS]

  the colors and and details of things [TS]

  like so basically can help this is what [TS]

  I'll say is if if what you're looking [TS]

  for out of a novel is a series of plot [TS]

  if pot points and events [TS]

  yes this book might disappoint you a [TS]

  little bit because because a lot of the [TS]

  a lot of it not all that there is a plot [TS]

  there is there is a lot of flavor club [TS]

  but there's a lot of like there's a lot [TS]

  of describing of the scene and it's a [TS]

  fantastical setting and instead of [TS]

  saying [TS]

  suffice it to say it's a magic circus [TS]

  now let's get down to the business of [TS]

  the plot of the thing that didn't happen [TS]

  what I like too much about it is is that [TS]

  it's very atmospheric and it treats [TS]

  magic as something that is special [TS]

  yeah and and precious right so you so [TS]

  many of these fantasy books read magic [TS]

  is just part of you ever get out of this [TS]

  magic there's magic guy who cares [TS]

  it makes me i'm still a teenager and i'm [TS]

  still a bit of an ass but I in this book [TS]

  it's like it's magic it's it's magical [TS]

  there's no other way to describe it it's [TS]

  just like when I was as i was reading it [TS]

  and I am known not to like an adult [TS]

  fiction but I felt it made me feel like [TS]

  a kid again reading a book which is a [TS]

  great kind of feeling to have right yeah [TS]

  that it's fantastical like that yes the [TS]

  magic is special and when they do it's [TS]

  weird and elemental and and sometimes [TS]

  it's whimsical and sometimes it's scary [TS]

  but it's never it's never pedestrian [TS]

  it's never boring [TS]

  it's only it's always hoggin all with [TS]

  their match [TS]

  or something you know yeah the magic is [TS]

  magical excited me a little bit of uh I [TS]

  know a lot of people talk about the [TS]

  prestige which is a a book and a movie [TS]

  set in sort of Victorian England but the [TS]

  one that reminds me a little bit more as [TS]

  they came around the same time as a [TS]

  movie called The Illusionist with a [TS]

  normal which also has a beautiful it's a [TS]

  extremely atmospheric movie I highly [TS]

  recommended by the way it's out it's [TS]

  actually very clear those movies are [TS]

  under all those movies are good they're [TS]

  very different as an illusionist yes is [TS]

  reminds me more of this be its own the [TS]

  illusionist is also more of a love story [TS]

  first edition arguably you you know [TS]

  there's something funny i was reading [TS]

  the book and I couldn't put my finger on [TS]

  what made it seem familiar and after a [TS]

  while I realized it reminded me of [TS]

  moby-dick which may sound ridiculous [TS]

  this is the descriptions no prescription [TS]

  is very well and and I really got me so [TS]

  the it that richness is that people read [TS]

  you know I'm sure we'll have to read it [TS]

  in high school and i'm reading a high [TS]

  school thing is the most boring thing [TS]

  which everyone does then i read it as an [TS]

  adult discovered Moby Dick is actually [TS]

  hilarious if you're not reading it [TS]

  tendentious Lee and analyzing everything [TS]

  it's a hilarious book but it's also [TS]

  every chapter and all the descriptions [TS]

  of the obtaining of the spur bassetti [TS]

  and all the rest of it it's it builds up [TS]

  this incredibly rich picture building up [TS]

  this inventory in the storehouse of your [TS]

  mind into which then the story unfolds [TS]

  and it's a you know weird literary [TS]

  convention not to make away with that I [TS]

  felt she did parts of that is she [TS]

  interleaved the narrative so it wasn't [TS]

  purely descriptive but there is a lot of [TS]

  it that was building up this storehouse [TS]

  the powder keg of all these forces [TS]

  arrayed in a lot of detail and [TS]

  background stories and then at the end [TS]

  it's just explosion explosion explosion [TS]

  explosion but you understood it all in [TS]

  that bigger context she created i love [TS]

  the moment in this book where r2 r2 [TS]

  participants finally really come [TS]

  together which involves a torrential [TS]

  downpour and a magic umbrella you stole [TS]

  the scene right from my mouth that is [TS]

  probably like oh it's beautiful is a [TS]

  fantastic memorable scene and you know [TS]

  there aren't that many bits of all right [TS]

  it does a great job of ratcheting things [TS]

  up without spelling everything out right [TS]

  there's still some suspense at the end [TS]

  of it they have now identified each [TS]

  other but and he invites her fridge [TS]

  drink right and then she goes maybe some [TS]

  other time and then disappear that I was [TS]

  a great if you could sort of it's not [TS]

  you know the balance doesn't tip right [TS]

  in one direction or the other it's sort [TS]

  of not even if anything that's the scene [TS]

  that the levels it and i think one of [TS]

  the things I really liked about this in [TS]

  some ways that I you know I realized i [TS]

  found myself anticipating and seeing a [TS]

  lot of the plots points coming but it's [TS]

  not i think there's an amount of [TS]

  predictability in certain books that is [TS]

  not necessarily a bad thing and it's [TS]

  kind of reassuring it's like putting a [TS]

  puzzle together when you kind of know [TS]

  what the picture is supposed to be so [TS]

  there's a certain joy in revealing it as [TS]

  you go in finding out how those pieces [TS]

  together right so I i think that that [TS]

  for me like I could see how some of [TS]

  these things were progressing but [TS]

  there's a satisfaction in in seeing it [TS]

  come together the way that you expected [TS]

  absolutely and to the description note i [TS]

  would say that those individual tense [TS]

  within the circus are so fantastical [TS]

  that the description like I'm i am anti [TS]

  Charles Dickens because of his excessive [TS]

  description but that said like the the [TS]

  description of each of the tents and how [TS]

  they work and you know all this one is [TS]

  is ice and this one is clouds this does [TS]

  this reminds me there's a I'm san [TS]

  Francisco has a has a night truck thing [TS]

  that happens basically twice a year [TS]

  three times a year Brooklyn has this as [TS]

  well and I think it originated in [TS]

  Brooklyn where it's just a bunch of [TS]

  theater people rent boxcar trucks and [TS]

  make fantastical elements within them [TS]

  and i actually got to go to one of these [TS]

  last year and like they're all cut like [TS]

  I felt very similar reading this book [TS]

  and like looking at the the various [TS]

  tents to actually go to the get that [TS]

  boxcar the evening market because the [TS]

  the truck was like one of the trucks i [TS]

  went to was a Brigadoon library only [TS]

  appears once every hundred years or once [TS]

  every yeah once every hundred years and [TS]

  then there was one where they did items [TS]

  in liquid nitrogen and then they just [TS]

  smash them so it's like it's all that [TS]

  you know the mix of the fantastical and [TS]

  me and the Jermaine and I don't know it [TS]

  was just having having had that [TS]

  experience I think it made the novel [TS]

  that my [TS]

  more interesting to me that one of the [TS]

  multiple perspectives is is a great way [TS]

  to get you to see the circus because we [TS]

  have the you know the story of sort of [TS]

  like you are entering the circus and and [TS]

  you're seeing what's happening in the [TS]

  circus from from this perspective that [TS]

  sort of outside and you've got the story [TS]

  of the kid who is dared by his sister to [TS]

  break in to the circus when you're not [TS]

  supposed to go there and he and he meets [TS]

  a girl and she gives him something as [TS]

  proof and then he leaves and you think [TS]

  well that's an interesting little thing [TS]

  but of course it's actually part of the [TS]

  story and it's a different part of the [TS]

  timeline so you are learning things that [TS]

  you later on you you really started [TS]

  flipping back and forth like okay when [TS]

  you have you guys did that take place [TS]

  ok hold on it and it sort of starts to [TS]

  dovetail right like towards the ethical [TS]

  look you look at the new music [TS]

  it gives you dates you're like what [TS]

  blood date whatever its 1908 its unity [TS]

  through whatever and then you realize oh [TS]

  Jesus the dates matter because this girl [TS]

  that we met hasn't been born at well [TS]

  isn't that clever how they I love the [TS]

  bit about where maybe this happened [TS]

  everyone knows about I don't know [TS]

  quarter of the third of the way through [TS]

  and so then I'm like these people are [TS]

  too old but with with a minute and then [TS]

  right when you realize that then she [TS]

  starts to reveal and then it becomes a [TS]

  thing and she sort of explains it but it [TS]

  is it's in there if you look as I [TS]

  noticed it fairly early on that they're [TS]

  like you know we don't seem to be you [TS]

  know getting any older her its it starts [TS]

  to come in and you realize there's [TS]

  something something very peculiar and [TS]

  you have that terribly tragic scene [TS]

  right with one of the twins [TS]

  oh gosh yeah doesn't want to [TS]

  we just can't handle you know everything [TS]

  being so magical and mystical and ends [TS]

  up you know more or less [TS]

  well she doesn't commit suicide but [TS]

  she's sort of drawn into sort of the i [TS]

  entice to the later [TS]

  yeah right by a train because you look [TS]

  at the proprietor as well of the certain [TS]

  that the provider but the person who [TS]

  produced the circus yeah yeah yeahs and [TS]

  watch him slowly go insane [TS]

  it's it's kind of horrifying a little [TS]

  all the background you have Prospero the [TS]

  enchanter and the enter enigmatic mr. [TS]

  and i love this mr. aah [TS]

  chef Victoria also very Victorian oh I i [TS]

  love that is so the separation and [TS]

  Prospero is Caelius father who he and [TS]

  she's delivered to him and he's like [TS]

  yeah I guess she's one of mine he [TS]

  realizes she's got magic energy is like [TS]

  all right well that's good and uh [TS]

  there's great stuff with him because you [TS]

  know you could do this is a almost lost [TS]

  kind of you know there's a abandoned [TS]

  black man and white and they have a game [TS]

  but goes on with the return but they're [TS]

  both kind of dicks like if they're bet [TS]

  it's exactly yeah it's you don't have [TS]

  that here and then prosper also you're [TS]

  like oh he's magic and and he's like [TS]

  yeah but he kind of is trying to do [TS]

  something to himself and he makes [TS]

  everybody starts to disappear rules [TS]

  that's the most beautiful thousand [TS]

  beautiful intelligent market when Marco [TS]

  asks like an amber necklace Ilya s Celia [TS]

  says what happened to your father he [TS]

  said well imagine what was the [TS]

  description was if you take a glass of [TS]

  wine and your crew and you remove the [TS]

  glass if you did that in a bowl of water [TS]

  it's one thing but if you do in the [TS]

  ocean it's another well he tried for the [TS]

  ocean equipment like oh wow yeah and so [TS]

  he's he's he's kind of a ghost now and [TS]

  then mr. a you know eh ok under in [TS]

  common [TS]

  yeah Alexandra generates not and the you [TS]

  know and they have their game that [TS]

  continues to go on and it's I i love [TS]

  that and that again is a way where we're [TS]

  that's a thing we've seen before and yet [TS]

  it didn't feel like it kind of comes out [TS]

  drinking [TS]

  I mean in some ways it's it kind of ends [TS]

  up being it's like nature versus nurture [TS]

  right is essentially a kind of what [TS]

  they're arguing right is that we hit you [TS]

  know Alexander says I can pluck you know [TS]

  someone out and more orphanage [TS]

  yeah and teach him magic and he will be [TS]

  able to beat someone who you you know [TS]

  who is like naturally talented i could [TS]

  pull this flower girl from in front of [TS]

  this offer house and the teacher how to [TS]

  speak with great elocutionist well as I [TS]

  think it's interesting because Prospero [TS]

  is basically arguing for magic as flash [TS]

  to a certain extent basically using it [TS]

  is really lush yeah we're at but the [TS]

  entirety of the circus is in a way [TS]

  magic is flash but with very different [TS]

  contours based on whether it's sealed [TS]

  his attraction or marcos attraction and [TS]

  the beauty of this whole thing is that [TS]

  you know as you see these two characters [TS]

  collide and you realize that they're [TS]

  going to fall in love and you're gonna [TS]

  have that moment where where the old men [TS]

  who are playing a little game we're [TS]

  gonna be like no no no no no your [TS]

  opponent's you can't no no no no and it [TS]

  that's it that's enjoyable to see the [TS]

  like know they're sorry guys we are in [TS]

  love now you know that there is it seems [TS]

  you know to me it was one of those again [TS]

  one of those sort of predictable [TS]

  elements that I saw coming but still you [TS]

  know saver done the last was that whole [TS]

  one of you has to die right here like in [TS]

  order for this game to end like you can [TS]

  in some ways I i was surprised that they [TS]

  don't like that silly and Marco don't [TS]

  put that together earlier but maybe [TS]

  that's just because i'm reading reading [TS]

  a book and I understand how books work [TS]

  right well they're under the impression [TS]

  that there's some sort of resolution me [TS]

  a lot of this book involves them not [TS]

  knowing the rules and trying to figure [TS]

  out it is this a competition when does [TS]

  it happen is you know but it ends up [TS]

  being son of a collaboration and yeah [TS]

  skirting around its any in a beautiful [TS]

  way out you know sort of collaborating [TS]

  on these wonders [TS]

  ya know I i will say I really dug it a [TS]

  book i liked it i did like the like the [TS]

  hint that mr. aah [TS]

  she is Merlin right like that sort of [TS]

  yeah i also took that away at the end [TS]

  there and yeah that was funny well it's [TS]

  also mr. a and doing this a long time he [TS]

  becomes less less and less offensive as [TS]

  he gets more and more engaged in what's [TS]

  going on so so prosper becomes a dick [TS]

  and sort of fades away while mr. H [TS]

  becomes increasingly human and finally [TS]

  as like almost too much sympathy for it [TS]

  it's a little unconvincing how much [TS]

  sympathy he develops i would say it's [TS]

  the only false know it's very very [TS]

  slight but i like the character I like [TS]

  that last conversation with him and we [TS]

  guess it's a good it's a lovely little [TS]

  scene there and he's still kind of a [TS]

  jerk but you get the impression that [TS]

  he's just he's become so disillusioned [TS]

  no pun intended with the entire yeah you [TS]

  know the entire history of magic yeah [TS]

  I've been doing this looking for [TS]

  something new it's yeah [TS]

  mmhmm yeah it's great so everybody it [TS]

  sounds like everybody has very positive [TS]

  things to say [TS]

  my-my thing about night circus is that i [TS]

  would buy that and add it to my physical [TS]

  book collection which is a phrase that I [TS]

  do not give too many books nowadays [TS]

  especially those workbooks so so I it's [TS]

  funny that you should say that I have a [TS]

  very limited number of things that i [TS]

  recommend my wife is a librarian she [TS]

  read lots of books shirts shoes and the [TS]

  Children's Library Association reads a [TS]

  lot of kids books so she can recommend [TS]

  them [TS]

  she has a limited willingness to go [TS]

  along with crazy books that i recommend [TS]

  so I try to I try to recommend her [TS]

  really good stuff and and i absolutely [TS]

  and unabashedly recommended this book [TS]

  and said you got to read this book and [TS]

  and and do it now and that so that's my [TS]

  equivalent of your in your endorsement [TS]

  if I might actually buy this book and [TS]

  put it on the Shelf like I i actually [TS]

  went to trouble my wife and say no this [TS]

  one but of all these crazy books I read [TS]

  you got to read this one I've been [TS]

  telling everyone they should go and buy [TS]

  and read this book because it's the most [TS]

  I think it's one of the most beautiful [TS]

  books i read in the last several years [TS]

  wow it's very approach it's approachable [TS]

  it's painless [TS]

  it's painless [TS]

  but it's in it's cuz you know he's got [TS]

  my chicken it's like it's not over yet [TS]

  is it requires you buy into a universe [TS]

  dragon-like you just you can read here [TS]

  be dragons yeah you can read it and [TS]

  enjoy it without having to you know [TS]

  learn foreign languages that are made up [TS]

  by the author right for instance Scott I [TS]

  thought it was i do agree i recommended [TS]

  to my wife that she read it and uh huh [TS]

  last night she was very tired so at ten [TS]

  o'clock i said okay you should go to bed [TS]

  i'm not tired so i will stay awake and [TS]

  so she took her kindle into the bedroom [TS]

  and lay down and an hour and a half [TS]

  later I want past bedroom and the light [TS]

  was on and she was reaching the night [TS]

  circus and I said I thought you were [TS]

  going to sleep and she was like oh but i [TS]

  only have seven percent left so the book [TS]

  at this reminded me of more than any [TS]

  other we with the little time that we've [TS]

  got left [TS]

  I thought we talked about other badgett [TS]

  kind of things we want to bring up and I [TS]

  want to bring up Jonathan strange Mr [TS]

  Norrell which I think somebody mentioned [TS]

  earlier by susanna Clark which is from [TS]

  2004 also a period in England you know [TS]

  19th century kind of story [TS]

  it's it's stylistically like that to you [TS]

  know very Charles Dickens or or or I [TS]

  guess austin and and I love that book [TS]

  its enormous ism looking [TS]

  yeah it might be difficult for some [TS]

  people to get into because of the [TS]

  stylistic choices but i think it's a [TS]

  fantastic book [TS]

  yeah it's got a little bit it's a little [TS]

  like The Magicians to in a sense that [TS]

  there's a scary like it was like a fairy [TS]

  realm that they go into but also [TS]

  everybody in your game a little bit [TS]

  it's like it's basically like a history [TS]

  book of things that never happened [TS]

  yelling but it's also got strange whimsy [TS]

  and it like the fact dollar there are [TS]

  magicians but they're not actually [TS]

  majority just suddenly ragic historians [TS]

  how would anyone ever do magic well as [TS]

  if there's a way there's a weird sort of [TS]

  like there's a weird sort of different [TS]

  drugs at the foot know what was there a [TS]

  lot of footnotes but there's a narrator [TS]

  right there is a narrator who is not any [TS]

  of the characters know and who only [TS]

  occasionally just pops up and said yeah [TS]

  I read [TS]

  splits or whatever in this book and [TS]

  you're like who is this huh [TS]

  but like in kind of it kind of a [TS]

  delightful way that never really i mean [TS]

  it's never really explained or [TS]

  acknowledge I thought it was one of the [TS]

  guys I said that actually is one of the [TS]

  characters in the book is the narrator [TS]

  Holly I all again i read it like like [TS]

  Scott I don't know at all really long [TS]

  time ago but I just I like that it's not [TS]

  it is it seems kind of separate and [TS]

  ancillary well like the footnotes yeah [TS]

  this is one of those you know a thousand [TS]

  page novel that I put out put a word in [TS]

  for a shorter novel the i recently read [TS]

  which I know scott also read I which is [TS]

  my kohls control point which is a [TS]

  interesting sort of modern urban fantasy [TS]

  you might classify classified as but it [TS]

  a lot of it is sort of military fantasy [TS]

  because it basically involves a world [TS]

  where people manifest magical powers and [TS]

  the government sort of has put a [TS]

  lockdown on this and so few manifest in [TS]

  one of these prohibited schools of magic [TS]

  you're essentially you know basically [TS]

  imprisoned by the army and so the the [TS]

  main character who is himself to sort of [TS]

  a normal run-of-the-mill army soldier [TS]

  manifest in one of these schools and has [TS]

  to decide whether he's going to [TS]

  basically go on the run from everything [TS]

  that he used to know and a surprisingly [TS]

  good book i had the pleasure of meeting [TS]

  Mike a conference here to put in my [TS]

  Glenn moment and he's a super nice guy [TS]

  and a really really interesting fellow [TS]

  who's currently living in a terrible [TS]

  apartment so that he can eke out a [TS]

  living as a writer but he's also way [TS]

  he's a military guy and so he has you [TS]

  know he writes this from an [TS]

  authoritative perspective but it's in [TS]

  surprisingly engaging and finance so i [TS]

  would definitely recommend it so I I saw [TS]

  something about this book and and but [TS]

  the thing that's weird about it is it's [TS]

  called channel control yeah well they [TS]

  call ended up as a it's definitely a [TS]

  series it's just the way the way it's [TS]

  marketed in the way they invented it [TS]

  feels like a video game spin-off or [TS]

  something which is what I was like it [TS]

  was it feels like a franchise type thing [TS]

  and it's and I think that's unfortunate [TS]

  in fact I was just looking at the he [TS]

  just put up on Twitter now and so they [TS]

  just put it by the British the UK cover [TS]

  for the book which i think is immensely [TS]

  better than the Americans probably would [TS]

  look and we didn't say it was supposed [TS]

  to have another day because it [TS]

  I made him change whether i said you [TS]

  know i was talking to Dan on twitter [TS]

  about this and I said yeah the book is [TS]

  much better than the cover and title [TS]

  would you lead you to believe and the [TS]

  author said yeah the type that wasn't [TS]

  supposed to be the title is supposed to [TS]

  be a oh my goodness related some ladies [TS]

  was the name that he wanted to Layton [TS]

  right and instead it's generally not a [TS]

  waffle constraint right so I mean [TS]

  they're clearly selling to a particular [TS]

  audience i think is the issue but i also [TS]

  think that the British the British cover [TS]

  looks a lot more serious and I think [TS]

  they drop drop the shadow ops part for [TS]

  that it's just called control point I'm [TS]

  which I still think is even better title [TS]

  than shadow puppets control point but he [TS]

  your regardless of the cover and the and [TS]

  the and the marketing I i think it's a [TS]

  worthwhile read pretty good [TS]

  alright any other magical uh books that [TS]

  you want to bring up with our remaining [TS]

  time I don't give a quick shout out to [TS]

  Joe Walton in general I just finished [TS]

  reading among others a couple of moval [TS]

  which was beautiful and very well SH so [TS]

  Welsh rate very very adorable [TS]

  that's we mentioned it before it's the [TS]

  fantasy it's a fantasy book it is about [TS]

  magic but it's also a but what it's [TS]

  about as science fiction so it's like a [TS]

  fantasy book about science fiction and [TS]

  there it but there is magic in it and [TS]

  she read sci-fi novels and yeah so lots [TS]

  of scifi own now modely obsessed with go [TS]

  Walton so I watched a an hour-long [TS]

  interview with her and the interviewer [TS]

  asked her did you watch it through like [TS]

  a one-day hockey it wasn't really an [TS]

  interview I was just stalking her for an [TS]

  hour and she's so the interview after [TS]

  all you're gonna write a sequel to among [TS]

  others and Joe Walton said I she first [TS]

  explain her writing process where she [TS]

  gets contracted to write a book she [TS]

  starts writing it and she gets bored [TS]

  with it write another book and says [TS]

  here's the book I wrote not the one you [TS]

  contract before which i think is great i [TS]

  think also not uncommon for many credits [TS]

  so she said what i could write a sequel [TS]

  to it but the only story I want to tell [TS]

  is about when the main character ends up [TS]

  on the moon and that's a 35 years from [TS]

  now and in order to write that book i [TS]

  would have to create all the science [TS]

  fiction novels that she read over those [TS]

  35 years so I'm just not going to do it [TS]

  alright well i have had a magical time [TS]

  discussing this with all of you as [TS]

  podcasts [TS]

  yeah yeah no that wasn't good so so to [TS]

  wrap up the magicians by lev grossman [TS]

  kinda got some interesting things in it [TS]

  but sounds like that the consensus is [TS]

  pretty flawed and problematic [TS]

  yeah yeah yeahs submissions it has [TS]

  issued a wheel the Night Circus by Erin [TS]

  Morgenstern I everybody seems to love it [TS]

  up it isn't going on my shelf once i [TS]

  have shelves to put things apart right [TS]

  bad as a ringing endorsement and just [TS]

  the other stuff among others Jonathan [TS]

  strange and mr. Durrell and shadow ops [TS]

  contratto ops control point [TS]

  alright so we're going to close up the [TS]

  the incomparable club for now I don't [TS]

  know what our next book selection is [TS]

  going to be although the hugo nominees [TS]

  should be coming out shortly [TS]

  they're not out as you listen to this [TS]

  podcast so perhaps we will target some [TS]

  of those next I went so well last year [TS]

  that will do it yeah well you know maybe [TS]

  that that's equal to feed dominated by [TS]

  God it can be anything worse than I will [TS]

  be there higher from this podcast if [TS]

  thats nomination ah so I've Jason I'm [TS]

  I'll step up all read them all I [TS]

  something to read except every feedlot [TS]

  yeah well you were your smartermail [TS]

  reading you will be dilated are all [TS]

  asterisk at hand [TS]

  it's all acceptable but so so if you're [TS]

  a a an incomparable book club devote a [TS]

  what I would say is watch our Twitter [TS]

  feed or sign up for our Goodreads group [TS]

  and we will notify you through those [TS]

  mechanisms about what our next book club [TS]

  selection will be yes and it in the in [TS]

  the meantime read a Jonathan strange mr. [TS]

  Durrell or shadow ops control point or [TS]

  among up you can get Jonathan strange [TS]

  for three bucks [TS]

  look at that and it's like a thousand [TS]

  patients the because your page of that [TS]

  deal is midnight blowing unbelievable [TS]

  but I'm tapping amazon now i'm topping [TS]

  amazon right now we are where we sell [TS]

  weapons [TS]

  some copies of Jonathan strange & Mr [TS]

  Norrell race true what does it take me [TS]

  to get you into this novel Dan because [TS]

  what are you gonna take you to throw in [TS]

  a spare tire mileage level your test [TS]

  drive [TS]

  throw in some plots that's what huh oh [TS]

  there we go [TS]

  one click for me i'm done the test drive [TS]

  is the sample the kindle sample [TS]

  literally wrote some plots extra and [TS]

  some formats right given NY minimized [TS]

  and how about some footnotes [TS]

  oh all the footnotes in Jonathan strange [TS]

  mr. oh come from if you have been like [TS]

  if she knows that would draw you really [TS]

  drive you a little bit nuts [TS]

  yeah do we fade slowly after a fortune [TS]

  without realizing it [TS]

  no no I'm I'm I'm position to say [TS]

  goodbye actually so until then whenever [TS]

  that time is when we reconvene the [TS]

  incomparable club i would like to thank [TS]

  my book club participants for again a [TS]

  delightful and magical time [TS]

  serenity called well thank you very much [TS]

  for joining us from your floating carpet [TS]

  high above Los Angeles where you are [TS]

  currently living with your magical cat [TS]

  thank you and hopefully i will magically [TS]

  be in boston the next time we have a [TS]

  book club podcast that's not use magic [TS]

  because that would be a lot faster than [TS]

  driving [TS]

  yes that's how i'm getting there in two [TS]

  days but excellent [TS]

  I Glenn fleischmann from his uh his [TS]

  bunker in Seattle but right in the back [TS]

  there's a door that goes to fillory [TS]

  thank you for being here thank you for a [TS]

  thousand feet blue the surface of the [TS]

  earth I thank you for not letting me in [TS]

  this episode watch out for the love of [TS]

  men knew Dan more'n i insert magic thing [TS]

  here [TS]

  thanks for being my you always always [TS]

  run out inspiration when it gets to me [TS]

  just really if I the door to fillory and [TS]

  my in the back of my room I would break [TS]

  it over the Beast would come and destroy [TS]

  your pens so that's the bricks or flow i [TS]

  see a magic trick supply [TS]

  yeah why would you use non-magic bricks [TS]

  oh why would you get a job and earn [TS]

  money when you can just make all your [TS]

  money with magic breaks and Scott [TS]

  McNulty I thank you for being here [TS]

  although you had pharma too much disk [TS]

  action and not enough plot that is often [TS]

  commenters on agree with you [TS]

  yes also you had many show air-quote [TS]

  jogo stations and I couldn't and there [TS]

  was a lot of silence for me I provide [TS]

  the love silence so yes thank you thank [TS]

  you for providing both your silence and [TS]

  your insight about the parts of the [TS]

  books that you could remember you know I [TS]

  read a lot of things people i know i [TS]

  think i can't remember them all [TS]

  you wouldn't want to that's why your [TS]

  book amnesia save you [TS]

  you're saying like it perhaps have a [TS]

  curse of some kind of when i went to [TS]

  fillory be magic that yes magic real [TS]

  magic magic is to blame for everything [TS]

  this is scott is that Scott is actually [TS]

  an enchanted book to type but I'm an [TS]

  enchanted e-reader that's who know your [TS]

  initiated book but you've been you're [TS]

  being punished [TS]

  Oh captured on me we're humans trapped [TS]

  in a body that even exactly that is it [TS]

  alright closing up the uncomfortable [TS]

  club then I'm Jason smell your host [TS]

  until next time on the income [TS]

  well thanks for listening [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  this is probably the first new book in a [TS]

  while that I would consider actually [TS]

  buying physically and putting it on my [TS]

  shelf of which is very limited right now [TS]

  since yeah basically homeless person [TS]

  basically a homeless and living out of [TS]

  boxes we prefer the term hobo you know [TS]

  you know glad it's it's funny you should [TS]

  mention moby dick because was a Herman [TS]

  Melville's great-granddaughter was my [TS]

  English should know i'm just gonna know [TS]

  you're out where you got allowed by [TS]

  listen listen there's no puedo go ahead [TS]

  moby dick you say except for her comma [TS]

  splices that drives me not such a loser [TS]

  for what misplaces she's continually [TS]

  gluing to set in dialogues will [TS]

  continually grew two sentences together [TS]

  with a comma [TS]

  what's the reasoning hummus places [TS]

  misplaces yeah I don't know what that is [TS]

  this officer talking almost like the [TS]

  size you're a writer kinda shit no [TS]

  splices it's when it's when you insert a [TS]

  comma when you should have a scenario [TS]

  you're seeing talking about like baba [TS]

  ghanoush uses from recycling is famous [TS]

  places where there is actually that's [TS]

  one of the lens travel presents at the [TS]

  isn't even on this place and not because [TS]

  it is black comedies white on this it's [TS]

  not appealing [TS]