The Incomparable

◼   ► in conquerable podcast number a desserts [TS]

◼   ► april twenty well [TS]

◼   ► we are back on the incomparable podcast [TS]

◼   ► I'm your host Jason scale and it is time [TS]

◼   ► to open another edition of our [TS]

◼   ► incomparable book club [TS]

◼   ► today's topic is magic and books about [TS]

◼   ► magical things specifically we've got [TS]

◼   ► two books that we're going to talk about [TS]

◼   ► that we're magic and magician ship [TS]

◼   ► features heavily and then we will [TS]

◼   ► probably have a little bit of time to [TS]

◼   ► branch out and talk about some other [TS]

◼   ► stuff to joining me on the incomparable [TS]

◼   ► book club tonight our Glenn fleischmann [TS]

◼   ► hi Glenn [TS]

◼   ► hello there to have you thank you for [TS]

◼   ► having me [TS]

◼   ► dan more'n Jason it's not magic it's an [TS]

◼   ► illusion [TS]

◼   ► Scott McNulty hello hello good to have [TS]

◼   ► you here i'll always a pleasure [TS]

◼   ► do you remember these books i remembers [TS]

◼   ► the titles [TS]

◼   ► ok excess Skylanders work Scott [TS]

◼   ► remembers words on a page i did read the [TS]

◼   ► village we look to you for title [TS]

◼   ► information and serenity Caldwell [TS]

◼   ► hello i am now speed reading reading [TS]

◼   ► through both these books because it has [TS]

◼   ► been so long since i read them [TS]

◼   ► simultaneously what everything yes [TS]

◼   ► simultaneous right hands you're flipping [TS]

◼   ► hmm well I have an iPhone an iPad I'm [TS]

◼   ► not gonna make the best use the space [TS]

◼   ► good good work good work alright so the [TS]

◼   ► two books were going to talk about it as [TS]

◼   ► our primary focus tonight are the Night [TS]

◼   ► Circus by Erin Morgenstern this is a [TS]

◼   ► book from 2011 it is actually started [TS]

◼   ► out its life as a national novel writing [TS]

◼   ► month novel which is very exciting and [TS]

◼   ► it has screech has gotten a lot of the [TS]

◼   ► claim and also the magicians by lev [TS]

◼   ► grossman which was published in 2009 and [TS]

◼   ► it also actually got some acclaim and he [TS]

◼   ► won an award for best up-and-coming [TS]

◼   ► writer from the hugo awards last year [TS]

◼   ► day and I'd a little-known fact actually [TS]

◼   ► left Grossman pen name of lex friedman I [TS]

◼   ► mean it's not true office this is not [TS]

◼   ► true although he is in our business he [TS]

◼   ► is the he is i believe the technology [TS]

◼   ► one of the technology reporters have a [TS]

◼   ► geek culture reporter if you have time [TS]

◼   ► magazine and a croton [TS]

◼   ► doing some reason about about the ipad [TS]

◼   ► came out and I i ended up reading the [TS]

◼   ► time magazine story about the ipad which [TS]

◼   ► was by lev grossman did he say was [TS]

◼   ► magical [TS]

◼   ► what I find strange about the ipad [TS]

◼   ► launch from web gross perspectives about [TS]

◼   ► halfway through the ipad entered a [TS]

◼   ► strange fantasy world [TS]

◼   ► Oh about halfway through the ipad got a [TS]

◼   ► lot better too [TS]

◼   ► ah alright so let's start with the [TS]

◼   ► magicians by let's review let's start [TS]

◼   ► we'll start there and I know that people [TS]

◼   ► have strong feelings about this novel [TS]

◼   ► but just to recap beyond the title which [TS]

◼   ► is the magician to Scott remembers [TS]

◼   ► correct yes k q haces God has fulfilled [TS]

◼   ► his behalf of his needs tonight right [TS]

◼   ► this is a book a kind of strange [TS]

◼   ► instructure I've heard it described by [TS]

◼   ► many people as being the foul-mouthed or [TS]

◼   ► dirty version of Harry Potter and that [TS]

◼   ► it is about a school for magic it's in [TS]

◼   ► the united states and not not in the UK [TS]

◼   ► it's just it's a school where people [TS]

◼   ► learn magical things except their foul [TS]

◼   ► mouth and and drink heavily and have sex [TS]

◼   ► with each other and other things that [TS]

◼   ► are not in harry potter it's it's the [TS]

◼   ► story of clinton who who lives in [TS]

◼   ► Brooklyn and is discovers there's this [TS]

◼   ► up by going by walking deeply back [TS]

◼   ► behind it like a garden inn in brooklyn [TS]

◼   ► and pushing through stuff stuff he ends [TS]

◼   ► up very very Narnia like very Lion the [TS]

◼   ► Witch and the Wardrobe like he ends up [TS]

◼   ► at this school brakebills which is the [TS]

◼   ► school for magicians and he takes some [TS]

◼   ► tests that are people peculiar and then [TS]

◼   ► he is enrolled in the school and time is [TS]

◼   ► out of sync and he meets people and [TS]

◼   ► there's a whole lot of school stuff and [TS]

◼   ► then there's a strange plot twist that [TS]

◼   ► leads to a whole other story about this [TS]

◼   ► strange magical world called Hillary so [TS]

◼   ► you know I um I know there are strong [TS]

◼   ► feelings about this novel so I'd like to [TS]

◼   ► I'd like to hear what you guys thought [TS]

◼   ► of it and let's start i'm not gonna [TS]

◼   ► start with Scott because maybe our [TS]

◼   ► discussions will remind him of things [TS]

◼   ► that happened in it [TS]

◼   ► shop some memories loose you can play [TS]

◼   ► along until then and start with that [TS]

◼   ► damn or and what what what are your [TS]

◼   ► thoughts were about the magician's you [TS]

◼   ► know a I think I think I talk to you [TS]

◼   ► really well I was well I was in the [TS]

◼   ► midst of it and found it you know rather [TS]

◼   ► lackluster to the point I think at that [TS]

◼   ► point I was about after two thirds of [TS]

◼   ► the way through and I think a lot of my [TS]

◼   ► problem with that is that the characters [TS]

◼   ► are so alienating and they're drawn in [TS]

◼   ► this very stereotypical talking about [TS]

◼   ► the book that reminded me the most of [TS]

◼   ► I'm trying to remember the name of it i [TS]

◼   ► think it was called the cheese monkeys [TS]

◼   ► by the chip kidd a4 chip kid yeah and so [TS]

◼   ► it's but it's got that same sort of [TS]

◼   ► that's about like a bunch of kids going [TS]

◼   ► to art school and so that's kind of what [TS]

◼   ► this reminded me of in a way is you've [TS]

◼   ► got all these kids who are really [TS]

◼   ► pretentious and I think that's what [TS]

◼   ► bothered me the most about it they're [TS]

◼   ► all kind of they're all kind of like [TS]

◼   ► layabouts and ne'er do wells to a [TS]

◼   ► certain extent especially Quentin the [TS]

◼   ► clicky sort of falls in with and not in [TS]

◼   ► the sense that they're all extremely [TS]

◼   ► wealthy or whatever but they're all you [TS]

◼   ► know they all do magic and so especially [TS]

◼   ► once they get out of out of brakebills [TS]

◼   ► and back into the real world [TS]

◼   ► I put quotes around that because they're [TS]

◼   ► like living in an apartment in Manhattan [TS]

◼   ► they don't have to work they have all [TS]

◼   ► the money they ever need is a magical [TS]

◼   ► right and so they spend all their time [TS]

◼   ► drinking and doing drugs and having sex [TS]

◼   ► and all that so um which is it's not [TS]

◼   ► terribly interesting because there's not [TS]

◼   ► really a plot going on at that point [TS]

◼   ► it's just these characters and [TS]

◼   ► unfortunately the characters again like [TS]

◼   ► I said I didn't [TS]

◼   ► they're not really like no they're not [TS]

◼   ► likeable I mean maybe alice is maybe [TS]

◼   ► like you never you never get insider say [TS]

◼   ► yeah but she's a mysterious other figure [TS]

◼   ► who maybe I think you feel sad for her [TS]

◼   ► more than anything yeah you know the [TS]

◼   ► other the other characters i mean we [TS]

◼   ► meet we meet these these characters and [TS]

◼   ► their older than a question and you get [TS]

◼   ► the sense that they're kind of already [TS]

◼   ► there [TS]

◼   ► they've been corrupted by the school and [TS]

◼   ► their cynical and and kind of unfriendly [TS]

◼   ► and the [TS]

◼   ► and-and-and there and Quentin and Alice [TS]

◼   ► are sort of like promoted into their [TS]

◼   ► year and so they're the younger ones and [TS]

◼   ► they're more innocent and and so through [TS]

◼   ► them you end up seeing these other [TS]

◼   ► characters who are more the another kind [TS]

◼   ► of hedonistic and they're very cynical [TS]

◼   ► and they're not particularly like when [TS]

◼   ► they've already got a sort of already [TS]

◼   ► have it [TS]

◼   ► politics between them and their arse [TS]

◼   ► history that's ugly of people who've [TS]

◼   ► loved and hated each other and it's a [TS]

◼   ► good kind of the whole thing it falls [TS]

◼   ► into this sort of trap of of clichés in [TS]

◼   ► some way of you have these you know [TS]

◼   ► dissolute teenagers you think they're [TS]

◼   ► too cool for everything and like you [TS]

◼   ► have the the how everybody hates their [TS]

◼   ► parents right even like especially [TS]

◼   ► Quentin's parents that really struck me [TS]

◼   ► as his parents being really kind of an [TS]

◼   ► offensive and bland but he's somehow [TS]

◼   ► offended by that ineffectiveness but it [TS]

◼   ► struck me as not really having a [TS]

◼   ► well-defined reason or a you know like [TS]

◼   ► it just struck me as like a god it's an [TS]

◼   ► annoying teenager you know and and and [TS]

◼   ► maybe that's realistic but it sits at [TS]

◼   ► the same time just so boring to read is [TS]

◼   ► so dull harry potter went through that [TS]

◼   ► for an entire harry potter book and it [TS]

◼   ► was actually one of the more unpleasant [TS]

◼   ► things in here hotter series he spends [TS]

◼   ► the entire book being mad at everybody [TS]

◼   ► because he supposed to be sullen because [TS]

◼   ► he's a teenager and it's you know it may [TS]

◼   ► be realistic in one way but it just kind [TS]

◼   ► of sucks because it's just like you're a [TS]

◼   ► jerk [TS]

◼   ► why do I fiction for a reason yeah so [TS]

◼   ► Dan what you said was you were [TS]

◼   ► despairing but I did you didn't pick up [TS]

◼   ► at the end then it [TS]

◼   ► this is sort of two books right it's [TS]

◼   ► kind of like two totally different plot [TS]

◼   ► yes well it's like yeah there's a [TS]

◼   ► there's a book at the beginning which is [TS]

◼   ► really boring school [TS]

◼   ► well it's cool Quentin as a kid and [TS]

◼   ► whatever I even the part of sort of [TS]

◼   ► beginning where they get to fillory this [TS]

◼   ► this magical universe even that feels [TS]

◼   ► kind of shoddy because Aaron it haha [TS]

◼   ► yeah it is unclear right like whether [TS]

◼   ► this is a pastiche on the sort of narnia [TS]

◼   ► and and traditional fantasies or whether [TS]

◼   ► it's a actual honest like Ernest fantasy [TS]

◼   ► story right I've got to say something [TS]

◼   ► about that because [TS]

◼   ► when reading this book all I could think [TS]

◼   ► of was this is a kid who wrote Narnia [TS]

◼   ► fanfiction in high school wrote like 250 [TS]

◼   ► thousand words of it said well I [TS]

◼   ► obviously can't publish it because it's [TS]

◼   ► fanfiction let me sit on it a couple [TS]

◼   ► years and then a couple years later he [TS]

◼   ► comes up to it means like oh well maybe [TS]

◼   ► if I twerksum names around [TS]

◼   ► Hey look I've got a novel then it just [TS]

◼   ► so happens to be very clearly resemble i [TS]

◼   ► think yeah I think that was it felt like [TS]

◼   ► parody a community parents so earnest so [TS]

◼   ► it's no it's not understand i mean [TS]

◼   ► there's enough of a critique in there I [TS]

◼   ► feel like that he's trying to that I [TS]

◼   ► don't think it's particularly well [TS]

◼   ► executed critique but it's clearly [TS]

◼   ► ripping off but it's yeah it's so it's [TS]

◼   ► so heavy-handed it is very heavy-handed [TS]

◼   ► number an ember thing where it's like [TS]

◼   ► and then at the end they come and they [TS]

◼   ► always take the chat when children away [TS]

◼   ► and they have to go back to the world [TS]

◼   ► seems so unfair and I'm like that is [TS]

◼   ► someone reading rd and said why can't [TS]

◼   ► the kids stay there you know it's just [TS]

◼   ► this [TS]

◼   ► yeah doesn't add to its just like this [TS]

◼   ► complaint yeah I the the illusions are [TS]

◼   ► so heavy though like you know they talk [TS]

◼   ► about you know I think the older girl at [TS]

◼   ► some of the older chat when you're at [TS]

◼   ► some point and of course anybody who's [TS]

◼   ► read Narnia you know thanks immediately [TS]

◼   ► a Susan who is the one you know the one [TS]

◼   ► kid who is sort of at a later point just [TS]

◼   ► decide she's she's she's never coming [TS]

◼   ► back to Narnia guess she's just got the [TS]

◼   ► joints right ages out and which is one [TS]

◼   ► thing that many people are critical of [TS]

◼   ► in Lewis's work but i think that I grew [TS]

◼   ► Jason that this is this is intended more [TS]

◼   ► as Christie core a critique or pastiche [TS]

◼   ► or something like that [TS]

◼   ► I don't know if I'd go so far as to say [TS]

◼   ► it's parody because it doesn't quite [TS]

◼   ► work that way and it's not funny enough [TS]

◼   ► to be parody to me and not very [TS]

◼   ► necessarily to be funny but like well [TS]

◼   ► it's not it's not a parody of not sharp [TS]

◼   ► enough there is a pair of harry potter [TS]

◼   ► it does feel like if you take harry [TS]

◼   ► potter and narnia what what what really [TS]

◼   ► is happening here is he's he's trying to [TS]

◼   ► make some kind of commentary right while [TS]

◼   ► telling a story about that sort of like [TS]

◼   ► the the how clean some of these family [TS]

◼   ► beloved fantasy stories are versus sort [TS]

◼   ► of the dirtiness of reality and real [TS]

◼   ► people and real life and I feel that the [TS]

◼   ► school seems very strongly [TS]

◼   ► and in the scenes in the second half in [TS]

◼   ► fillory you know I feel like he's making [TS]

◼   ► some comments on on this idea of the [TS]

◼   ► children I mean you talk about the [TS]

◼   ► children visiting and IMF and the [TS]

◼   ► changes in time and all of that he is [TS]

◼   ► sort of making a comment about that [TS]

◼   ► especially given the fact that spoiler [TS]

◼   ► horn [TS]

◼   ► the the the bad guy ends up being one of [TS]

◼   ► the children who is bad because he [TS]

◼   ► doesn't want to leave and I but the but [TS]

◼   ► he doesn't he doesn't commit to it my [TS]

◼   ► problem is that it's not just the novel [TS]

◼   ► changes halfway through its that he [TS]

◼   ► doesn't commit to being either parody or [TS]

◼   ► critique and he's and that's what it [TS]

◼   ► feels like pastiche because it's a [TS]

◼   ► washing machine yeah he borrows [TS]

◼   ► everything he can I mean the fact that [TS]

◼   ► needed brakebills like that could be [TS]

◼   ► funny if he was really trying to [TS]

◼   ► Hogwarts parody but he doesn't it's he [TS]

◼   ► borrow it's like it's like oh I'm gonna [TS]

◼   ► make a little joke here and there an [TS]

◼   ► occasion i'm going to make a joke about [TS]

◼   ► Narnia or or harry potter i don't think [TS]

◼   ► it's a parody it's commentary it is [TS]

◼   ► saying this is unrealistic to expect [TS]

◼   ► people to behave the way they do in [TS]

◼   ► Harry Potter this is how they would [TS]

◼   ► behave but who wants to read a book [TS]

◼   ► about that well that may be but well I [TS]

◼   ► mean I and I think you could do that [TS]

◼   ► well I just not sure that this was done [TS]

◼   ► well my thing is that he steals the [TS]

◼   ► framework so he tries to eat he makes [TS]

◼   ► them in jokes he makes the reference and [TS]

◼   ► then it's like okay well not describe [TS]

◼   ► something works just like Harry Potter [TS]

◼   ► you know it works just like whores [TS]

◼   ► describing workers everyone's read [TS]

◼   ► Narnia so I'm just gonna go into the [TS]

◼   ► other thing ignore the fact that i [TS]

◼   ► created something I bring up all these [TS]

◼   ► things are always in jokes and create [TS]

◼   ► different names for everything and [TS]

◼   ► sometimes wink and nudge about Narnia or [TS]

◼   ► harry potter and then he moves on and [TS]

◼   ► you know we're talking about just those [TS]

◼   ► two there so many elements like brought [TS]

◼   ► in from every other book and movie you [TS]

◼   ► know there's bright lights big city in [TS]

◼   ► the New York seen practically there's [TS]

◼   ► there's a it's just I feel like it i [TS]

◼   ► think best each is the right word [TS]

◼   ► because I feel like they're 50 different [TS]

◼   ► bits and pieces of fantasy novels and [TS]

◼   ► magic novels and movies i mean i've felt [TS]

◼   ► like it was a terrible movie with your [TS]

◼   ► sensual a terrible movie with nicolas [TS]

◼   ► cage where sorcerer's apprentice right [TS]

◼   ► which I saw national richer conair yeah [TS]

◼   ► I don't know [TS]

◼   ► so has rich and famous sorcerers [TS]

◼   ► apprentice had the same field to me [TS]

◼   ► where they're like they're trying to [TS]

◼   ► reference stuff and they're sort of [TS]

◼   ► being funny and the sort of making no [TS]

◼   ► sense and it doesn't stand alone it's [TS]

◼   ► like Oh electricity allows us to perform [TS]

◼   ► magic except we say spells except [TS]

◼   ► there's there's a perfect part that [TS]

◼   ► explains this book for me which is early [TS]

◼   ► on they're doing some lecture and one of [TS]

◼   ► the professor says we don't know [TS]

◼   ► anything about the orange of origin of [TS]

◼   ► magic and he makes the it's Turtles all [TS]

◼   ► the way down story and it goes on about [TS]

◼   ► the turtles all the way down reference [TS]

◼   ► to hammer on the point that we don't [TS]

◼   ► because harry potter it's obviously a [TS]

◼   ► peep of his and the Harry Potter books [TS]

◼   ► they don't really look at where magic [TS]

◼   ► comes from comes from they just study it [TS]

◼   ► like empirical of scientists used to [TS]

◼   ► without setting the basis of you know [TS]

◼   ► reality or whatever and I feel like the [TS]

◼   ► same things come up here is you know it [TS]

◼   ► brings these things up because there is [TS]

◼   ► pet peeves he gets rid of them and then [TS]

◼   ► moves on just like you know you work [TS]

◼   ► through the harry potter thing whether [TS]

◼   ► should have been sex and drugs and [TS]

◼   ► violence and weird stuff at Hogwarts [TS]

◼   ► while we've done that now we're going to [TS]

◼   ► go into the narnia world and there [TS]

◼   ► should have been you know this and that [TS]

◼   ► and strange gods and so forth and then [TS]

◼   ► he does not i wanted to interject that I [TS]

◼   ► thought they were the the scene there's [TS]

◼   ► one scene that really stands out for me [TS]

◼   ► in the first half of the book which is [TS]

◼   ► the one point where if i'm sort of [TS]

◼   ► like-- lazily like asian through it and [TS]

◼   ► reading the one that made me sort of [TS]

◼   ► setup is the scene the first scene with [TS]

◼   ► the Beast weary antagonists and taxing [TS]

◼   ► best which i think is one of the best [TS]

◼   ► scenes yeah overall its original [TS]

◼   ► slightly yeah it's an original scene [TS]

◼   ► doesn't feel like anything else yeah [TS]

◼   ► it's really scary especially that last [TS]

◼   ► bit where it's like you have to go [TS]

◼   ► through the whole thing and it's kind of [TS]

◼   ► terrifying your kind of frozen and then [TS]

◼   ► again like they're like oh and nobody [TS]

◼   ► even noticed that this like student [TS]

◼   ► totally died and you're just like wait [TS]

◼   ► what [TS]

◼   ► but they never really be kind of cheats [TS]

◼   ► his way out of it never really goes you [TS]

◼   ► know back to that aspect of it right it [TS]

◼   ► gets put on hold so long but I was like [TS]

◼   ► maybe he just forgot it will never come [TS]

◼   ► up again but it did it got it does it [TS]

◼   ► does and I and I mean and I think that [TS]

◼   ► that's the part that's where the story [TS]

◼   ► starts to come around to me is towards [TS]

◼   ► the end I think it really took as far as [TS]

◼   ► they get into sort of this tomb right [TS]

◼   ► and I get up to the you know they find [TS]

◼   ► amber and they start interrogating him [TS]

◼   ► and you kind of realize that this is all [TS]

◼   ► a sort of a ploy and then they have to [TS]

◼   ► like them they're you know they're in [TS]

◼   ► there in deep crap right and they have [TS]

◼   ► to sort of get there [TS]

◼   ► out of it and it doesn't go well and [TS]

◼   ► that's the part where I started like [TS]

◼   ► okay I I kind of like that there's [TS]

◼   ► something at stake here and that things [TS]

◼   ► go really badly and that they have to [TS]

◼   ► dig themselves out this huge hole and I [TS]

◼   ► really sort of love the coda after that [TS]

◼   ► with the questing beast remove that that [TS]

◼   ► little short story in there where he [TS]

◼   ► wakes up after this huge battle and he's [TS]

◼   ► been asleep for like months are you know [TS]

◼   ► and he's his hair is gone white and so [TS]

◼   ► he's taking care of by all these [TS]

◼   ► centaurs kind of pity them and then he [TS]

◼   ► has to go off and search after this [TS]

◼   ► thing I love that little bit you know [TS]

◼   ► where that's a reference to by the way [TS]

◼   ► the again everything is the best teacher [TS]

◼   ► I like that part too very much i thought [TS]

◼   ► that was that one of the best parts of [TS]

◼   ► the book but the infernal desire [TS]

◼   ► machines of dr. Hoffman by angela carter [TS]

◼   ► with your friend gave me to read it's a [TS]

◼   ► terrifying and hilarious book and [TS]

◼   ► there's a bit with centaurs in it that [TS]

◼   ► is exceedingly disturbing to any [TS]

◼   ► rational mind and that scene in the book [TS]

◼   ► with the Centaurs is clearly an homage [TS]

◼   ► to it without being anywhere near as [TS]

◼   ► disturbing as national Carter's book I [TS]

◼   ► wanted to mention one other seen that I [TS]

◼   ► that I liked in a book which is the [TS]

◼   ► scene where at graduation they're all [TS]

◼   ► taken down into know ya levels below [TS]

◼   ► level level level and it's like outside [TS]

◼   ► the magical protection area and they all [TS]

◼   ► get tattoos that are essentially demons [TS]

◼   ► being inserted into them to protect them [TS]

◼   ► and it's this ritual and the Dean is [TS]

◼   ► sort of like I'm ok I'm gonna let you [TS]

◼   ► and now that you've graduated I'm gonna [TS]

◼   ► let you in on some of the last secrets i [TS]

◼   ► thought that was really evocative there [TS]

◼   ► are a few scenes like that that you did [TS]

◼   ► you like wow there are some elements of [TS]

◼   ► a really good book that was not real you [TS]

◼   ► know what the will the scene that stands [TS]

◼   ► alone for me that was the best the [TS]

◼   ► Antarctica seen I loved that scene I [TS]

◼   ► thought the whole thing it was so gritty [TS]

◼   ► it was so disconnected from the rest of [TS]

◼   ► the book it was so it actually had I [TS]

◼   ► would say compelling sex even though was [TS]

◼   ► between foxes I thought that the other [TS]

◼   ► sex is whole thing about being sex and [TS]

◼   ► drugs and alcohol and the book isn't [TS]

◼   ► very interesting throughout and I [TS]

◼   ► thought that got more to sort of like [TS]

◼   ► raw elemental stuff than anything else [TS]

◼   ► in the book and it it's a fascinating [TS]

◼   ► little snippet and when they get back to [TS]

◼   ► brakebills I'm like ah that parts over [TS]

◼   ► that part was actually really strong [TS]

◼   ► well the part it takes them out of their [TS]

◼   ► reality to serve [TS]

◼   ► extending them out of the context and [TS]

◼   ► also you're taking them out of their [TS]

◼   ► board disaffected human minds and [TS]

◼   ► putting them in animals and things like [TS]

◼   ► that and like oh no you can't talk to [TS]

◼   ► each other so you can't complain about [TS]

◼   ► how bored you are i don't know it feels [TS]

◼   ► like to create a quote from louis ck [TS]

◼   ► here everything is awesome and nobody is [TS]

◼   ► happy where it's like you were going to [TS]

◼   ► a school for magic and you're still [TS]

◼   ► gonna be all the time and yes [TS]

◼   ► admittedly if he wants to make a you [TS]

◼   ► know if if Grossman's idea is to make a [TS]

◼   ► story about how magic really just causes [TS]

◼   ► trouble and makes people unhappy you [TS]

◼   ► know there are elements in there there's [TS]

◼   ► like the parents seen we get to see what [TS]

◼   ► else's parents who are just these people [TS]

◼   ► who have oh yeah well you you take the [TS]

◼   ► this is what disaffected people turn [TS]

◼   ► into when they have all the power at [TS]

◼   ► their hands and they just going into [TS]

◼   ► themselves into crazy this book actually [TS]

◼   ► kind of reminds me of Catcher in the Rye [TS]

◼   ► except with magic and crappier and Carla [TS]

◼   ► know we'll listen for a second because [TS]

◼   ► like a lot of people this catcher in the [TS]

◼   ► rye because of the you know disaffected [TS]

◼   ► nature of the protagonist but i would [TS]

◼   ► say the tone or at least a tone that [TS]

◼   ► Grossman is trying to achieve i think is [TS]

◼   ► similar to catcher in the rye his [TS]

◼   ► catcher in the rye is a very affecting [TS]

◼   ► book even though it's narrator is a bit [TS]

◼   ► of an ass [TS]

◼   ► well that's why I'm not criticizing this [TS]

◼   ► I'm saying that you know comparing this [TS]

◼   ► to catch on the rise like you know [TS]

◼   ► comparing the rock to you know the [TS]

◼   ► tempest you know i got it will take [TS]

◼   ► place on Islands you know I mean they [TS]

◼   ► have similar themes not necessarily that [TS]

◼   ► they're similar tears of literature [TS]

◼   ► no yeah I'm gonna backups ready because [TS]

◼   ► I thought that was the missing the the [TS]

◼   ► structural problem for me was if you [TS]

◼   ► want to explore what happens when you [TS]

◼   ► have infinite aura now relatively [TS]

◼   ► infinite power compared to other people [TS]

◼   ► and what happens the corruption and [TS]

◼   ► harry potter and despite someone [TS]

◼   ► dimensionality of it throughout the the [TS]

◼   ► conflict between having power and being [TS]

◼   ► forced to restrain and the the [TS]

◼   ► mechanisms in the Harry Potter universe [TS]

◼   ► beat that even though sometimes we just [TS]

◼   ► presented as parodies of British [TS]

◼   ► bureaucracy there are checks and [TS]

◼   ► balances you must do something useful [TS]

◼   ► with yourself or sort of retire back [TS]

◼   ► into the magical world you can't go out [TS]

◼   ► and just sort of screw around in this [TS]

◼   ► world the rules don't seem to apply and [TS]

◼   ► you wonder why [TS]

◼   ► more things aren't going awry and people [TS]

◼   ► have different amounts of power and he [TS]

◼   ► never explores the it's not a great [TS]

◼   ► responsibility comes you know with great [TS]

◼   ► power thing it's more like he doesn't [TS]

◼   ► explore the ethical limits of having no [TS]

◼   ► check someone's actions [TS]

◼   ► it's just uh well we can do anything we [TS]

◼   ► want so we're all going to collapse and [TS]

◼   ► ennui [TS]

◼   ► or become despite and so that whole last [TS]

◼   ► seen right where he's he's after he's [TS]

◼   ► escaped from Philadelphia she decides 30 [TS]

◼   ► yeah he decides to go work in this Fermi [TS]

◼   ► doesn't really do anything he draws a [TS]

◼   ► paycheck he sits around in his office [TS]

◼   ► and plays video games all day is really [TS]

◼   ► nice office that he's just sort of [TS]

◼   ► convince people to give them and I mean [TS]

◼   ► I don't know it you sort of sad it's [TS]

◼   ► difficult thing and I think that you [TS]

◼   ► know I think the ending of this book is [TS]

◼   ► fairly contentious in some ways [TS]

◼   ► especially the you know very end of it [TS]

◼   ► where he essentially decides why the [TS]

◼   ► heck not [TS]

◼   ► I'll go back with all my friends to this [TS]

◼   ► you know terrible face that we barely [TS]

◼   ► escaped with our lives because at least [TS]

◼   ► it's more exciting than what the hell [TS]

◼   ► I'm doing here [TS]

◼   ► that makes no sense to me oh I thought [TS]

◼   ► they had established some meaning that [TS]

◼   ► they had meeting and resolve and that's [TS]

◼   ► why he went with him as opposed to hey [TS]

◼   ► let's go have fun it was like no these [TS]

◼   ► were kick-ass people and figure out some [TS]

◼   ► way to scrape some meeting and looking [TS]

◼   ► at them he's like alright maybe there is [TS]

◼   ► something to do I was gonna love it if [TS]

◼   ► you know they had connected the [TS]

◼   ► characters more but I feel like by the [TS]

◼   ► end of the book maybe i just read it to [TS]

◼   ► sleep by the end after he goes on the [TS]

◼   ► questing beast thing [TS]

◼   ► it kind of feels like oh I'm done with [TS]

◼   ► this chapter in my life I'm closing off [TS]

◼   ► magic forever [TS]

◼   ► I'm gonna go work in an office and be [TS]

◼   ► completely you know just simply [TS]

◼   ► dissolute about this i mean even meets [TS]

◼   ► up with somebody who was a former which [TS]

◼   ► is also working at this firm in doing [TS]

◼   ► nothing and they have coffee and it's [TS]

◼   ► and it's very much it feels like after [TS]

◼   ► that scene after the you know the coffee [TS]

◼   ► or the beer scene that he feels you know [TS]

◼   ► completely uninterested about anything [TS]

◼   ► in the magical world and then two scenes [TS]

◼   ► later he's like yeah I'm gonna go to [TS]

◼   ► fillory why not well but there is a nice [TS]

◼   ► there is a nice train there because the [TS]

◼   ► reason that you know the reason that [TS]

◼   ► that woman is also there is that she [TS]

◼   ► also sort of caused the death of someone [TS]

◼   ► write that she was really close to in [TS]

◼   ► the same way that when you put himself [TS]

◼   ► in danger and had to be rescued by Alice [TS]

◼   ► who essentially you know commited [TS]

◼   ► suicide to save them and so they're sort [TS]

◼   ► of the argument at the end there is if [TS]

◼   ► they gave our lives for us [TS]

◼   ► like you know what we better make our [TS]

◼   ► lives worthwhile right I think that's [TS]

◼   ► sort of the that is the thing that sort [TS]

◼   ► of i think saves that upswing at the end [TS]

◼   ► a little bit is not so much that you [TS]

◼   ► know [TS]

◼   ► oh I guess I have nothing better to do [TS]

◼   ► than go back in this world is more of a [TS]

◼   ► well if we don't do something then you [TS]

◼   ► know that their deaths didn't mean [TS]

◼   ► anything [TS]

◼   ► this is also a story that is about in it [TS]

◼   ► if you had to say was about one thing I [TS]

◼   ► would say it's it's about Narnia and [TS]

◼   ► it's about the books and the concept so [TS]

◼   ► even in the beginning you know he's [TS]

◼   ► pushing through essentially the Wardrobe [TS]

◼   ► to get brakebills he's obsessed with [TS]

◼   ► these books they read as a kid they end [TS]

◼   ► up going to this world because it turns [TS]

◼   ► out to be real which I really enjoyed [TS]

◼   ► that part that it that the fact that [TS]

◼   ► wait a second [TS]

◼   ► hilary is real after all and at the end [TS]

◼   ► you know it's a Narnia is a series and [TS]

◼   ► and there's detail about the fillory [TS]

◼   ► series 2 and they keep the kids keep [TS]

◼   ► going back right so I felt like you had [TS]

◼   ► to have them go back at the end because [TS]

◼   ► that's what it's about is they go back [TS]

◼   ► to the magic land they that you just [TS]

◼   ► that's how these books work as they go [TS]

◼   ► back to what I view that is at a [TS]

◼   ► meta-level that to that don't of course [TS]

◼   ► they have to go back [TS]

◼   ► that's when it's not everybody gets to [TS]

◼   ► go back right right [TS]

◼   ► maybe they had that last scene 2 because [TS]

◼   ► if he'll head and throwing himself [TS]

◼   ► through that glass window and he [TS]

◼   ► couldn't save Trinity only a minute yeah [TS]

◼   ► it was very matrix at the end wasn't [TS]

◼   ► that was like a scene from the matrix [TS]

◼   ► but they need cinnamon that was that was [TS]

◼   ► the ok and then to get this the option [TS]

◼   ► i'd have this scene at the end so goes [TS]

◼   ► the movie with but I sort of had another [TS]

◼   ► kind of like that because it was it was [TS]

◼   ► I thought it through off some of the [TS]

◼   ► ennui it's like you know you know it's [TS]

◼   ► they could have ended this sort of you [TS]

◼   ► know at the end of one hour under you [TS]

◼   ► like the end of Brazil you know he's [TS]

◼   ► gone insane and and in these dead to the [TS]

◼   ► world and we're still a dystopia it's [TS]

◼   ► like now this guy goes alright I'm gonna [TS]

◼   ► throw myself out the window and is I i [TS]

◼   ► can do magic [TS]

◼   ► why am I here i'm gonna do that and I [TS]

◼   ► yeah a good at least there wasn't [TS]

◼   ► originally like an epilogue where it's [TS]

◼   ► like you're the the bystanders walking [TS]

◼   ► by see this guy plummet to his death [TS]

◼   ► from not thank you [TS]

◼   ► and I really want to pull the garbage [TS]

◼   ► out for dinner someone cast a spell [TS]

◼   ► silence over Scott McNulty we have to [TS]

◼   ► release him from it yes got to remember [TS]

◼   ► this book now [TS]

◼   ► uh well to be fair I did read it three [TS]

◼   ► years ago [TS]

◼   ► so how didn't I tell you all that the [TS]

◼   ► new button on you don't know I I was [TS]

◼   ► just trying to recall any of these [TS]

◼   ► details and all I remember about the [TS]

◼   ► book was that the first part i [TS]

◼   ► completely forgot they went to a magical [TS]

◼   ► land and I remember the ending with the [TS]

◼   ► exploding window so i really like the [TS]

◼   ► entire moving it may be a good point [TS]

◼   ► though that there really are these two [TS]

◼   ► these two movements and you remember the [TS]

◼   ► school stuff and there's this cool stuff [TS]

◼   ► and then there's the magic land and when [TS]

◼   ► I was talking to my wife afterward i [TS]

◼   ► read this book and a and then I was [TS]

◼   ► talking to her about this crazy book [TS]

◼   ► that I read and I said you know as an [TS]

◼   ► editor I look at this and think this [TS]

◼   ► should have been two books [TS]

◼   ► this should've been there would there [TS]

◼   ► was it should have been cut into and [TS]

◼   ► then both of them needed some work right [TS]

◼   ► there should have been a book one that [TS]

◼   ► was the magician's at school book one [TS]

◼   ► would have been incredibly boring [TS]

◼   ► well it needed a climax there was no [TS]

◼   ► climax in that part of the book he [TS]

◼   ► rushed through it too there's that one [TS]

◼   ► point where he's like he's like oh wait [TS]

◼   ► a minute 14 months just passed and we [TS]

◼   ► don't know anybody how do we not make [TS]

◼   ► any friends it was like there's a bit [TS]

◼   ► when they say that like yeah how do we [TS]

◼   ► not make any friends for the last year [TS]

◼   ► and a half and you're like oh this is [TS]

◼   ► that dream when you wake up and you [TS]

◼   ► forgot to go to school for a year is [TS]

◼   ► what it is so you you you know you you [TS]

◼   ► can change the shape of a little bit too [TS]

◼   ► but you have a little more of a climax [TS]

◼   ► and whether that's the Antarctica stuff [TS]

◼   ► or it's something else that climax with [TS]

◼   ► them graduate more more quidditch I mean [TS]

◼   ► Welters yes exactly [TS]

◼   ► there could just run is a nap and I felt [TS]

◼   ► like that would have been an interesting [TS]

◼   ► book and then the second but it the [TS]

◼   ► second half feels like a totally [TS]

◼   ► different book which is hey you remember [TS]

◼   ► all that fillory stuff it turns out that [TS]

◼   ► it's real i will have an adventure there [TS]

◼   ► he could have built more I if you [TS]

◼   ► expanded the first part with school he [TS]

◼   ► could have really interested in that [TS]

◼   ► hole fillory thing a little more so it [TS]

◼   ► would have been more shocking for the [TS]

◼   ► second book like oh my god it really is [TS]

◼   ► real but you do it now [TS]

◼   ► now so that that's that and that struck [TS]

◼   ► me about it that it just it felt like [TS]

◼   ► this would [TS]

◼   ► of I think works better because it feels [TS]

◼   ► like two unfinished books if it had been [TS]

◼   ► split into and been more finished and I [TS]

◼   ► think because there's a lot of good [TS]

◼   ► stuff in here but it does feel like you [TS]

◼   ► know and this happens with novels a lot [TS]

◼   ► is you know you write a novel and it [TS]

◼   ► people will either publish it or they [TS]

◼   ► won't and it's not that off that common [TS]

◼   ► that somebody will say I like it but it [TS]

◼   ► needs a lot of work and you should [TS]

◼   ► probably break it into and you should do [TS]

◼   ► this and just do that now if you like [TS]

◼   ► this is one of those cases where just [TS]

◼   ► cried out for somebody to say left this [TS]

◼   ► is great stuff [TS]

◼   ► you're very talented we need to do some [TS]

◼   ► work on it and it seems like that didn't [TS]

◼   ► happen you know why would I wouldn't [TS]

◼   ► compare this in terms of plot or or [TS]

◼   ► scale but the on the series of wonderful [TS]

◼   ► books the blue Mars rover him Stanley [TS]

◼   ► Robinson yeah tread marks cream learning [TS]

◼   ► more wonderful series of books and Mars [TS]

◼   ► tomorrow one of the most appropriate [TS]

◼   ► Mars blue Mars and Mars blue eyes what [TS]

◼   ► do you see the the thing about that [TS]

◼   ► books characters incredibly richly drawn [TS]

◼   ► characters some of them start out [TS]

◼   ► extremely disinfected and sullen or even [TS]

◼   ► you're angry at them are there they kill [TS]

◼   ► people or whatever enters and evolution [TS]

◼   ► through the book whereby they live for [TS]

◼   ► like 200 years so yeah that's a nice [TS]

◼   ► little gimmick might explain why i could [TS]

◼   ► never finish that book takes to twitter [TS]

◼   ► year so it's a beautiful is a beautiful [TS]

◼   ► serious reading maybe we'll do an [TS]

◼   ► episode on it but the but I mean there's [TS]

◼   ► the evolution of character you can have [TS]

◼   ► disaffected characters like I thought [TS]

◼   ► the turning point was going to be with [TS]

◼   ► Quentin and Alice like you know they had [TS]

◼   ► that they're both disaffected Alice had [TS]

◼   ► reasons actually a deep dark secrets and [TS]

◼   ► Gretchen was just sort of a you know [TS]

◼   ► jerky Brooklyn k just didn't appreciate [TS]

◼   ► what he had been their magic but after [TS]

◼   ► Antarctica i thought was going to happen [TS]

◼   ► is ok this is the crucible we've gone [TS]

◼   ► through a lot they go through America [TS]

◼   ► they both have learned more about each [TS]

◼   ► other and themselves and they're the [TS]

◼   ► only two and five years like the boxes [TS]

◼   ► there some foxes and they do that death [TS]

◼   ► marks that bit that one of the best [TS]

◼   ► moments the book the funniest thing is [TS]

◼   ► they come back upon the portal back to [TS]

◼   ► brakebills from Antarctica everyone is [TS]

◼   ► sitting around and they're like you two [TS]

◼   ► are the only idiots who did that [TS]

◼   ► optional voluntary death march to the [TS]

◼   ► pole but that's what i thought that was [TS]

◼   ► the crucible and then you're going to [TS]

◼   ► have this different thing where resolve [TS]

◼   ► and different and they realize [TS]

◼   ► and now there's still the same kind of [TS]

◼   ► party around kids that they were before [TS]

◼   ► yeah would have been really nice to [TS]

◼   ► actually see them get to the point where [TS]

◼   ► oh yes we've embraced what we're doing [TS]

◼   ► and we're really invested in it and then [TS]

◼   ► you take it you go back to New York you [TS]

◼   ► have the slow sort of degradation the [TS]

◼   ► idea that oh yeah back now that you're [TS]

◼   ► back in the real world everything is [TS]

◼   ► sort of crunching on in on you and I [TS]

◼   ► think actually he has a really [TS]

◼   ► interesting motif throughout the book [TS]

◼   ► with the sort of the real world versus [TS]

◼   ► the magic world and going back to the [TS]

◼   ► magic world i mean not only do you have [TS]

◼   ► it sort of the main characters but you [TS]

◼   ► have it with the main antagonist you [TS]

◼   ► have it with Martin and then you also [TS]

◼   ► have sort of a weird foreshadowing with [TS]

◼   ► Quentin's original non-magic world [TS]

◼   ► classmate Julia who gets in for like the [TS]

◼   ► first two rounds of tests at brakebills [TS]

◼   ► and then gets booted out and is [TS]

◼   ► convinced that she's gone crazy [TS]

◼   ► yes exactly because she remembers even [TS]

◼   ► though they tried to wipe her memory [TS]

◼   ► about it and so she just goes around and [TS]

◼   ► like she wants to get back into that [TS]

◼   ► world and she even assaults question at [TS]

◼   ► one point being like yeah I'm gonna get [TS]

◼   ► back and you know you if you contrast [TS]

◼   ► that with the Martin Chatwin stuff like [TS]

◼   ► there's there's the underpinnings of a [TS]

◼   ► really interesting book about the [TS]

◼   ► disillusionment of magic and what [TS]

◼   ► happens when you try and go back to a [TS]

◼   ► world that you can't quite fit into and [TS]

◼   ► that like that could be really really [TS]

◼   ► well paired with growing up and stuff [TS]

◼   ► like that but instead it for me it just [TS]

◼   ► feels like a bunch of dissolute pieces [TS]

◼   ► that are kind of plopped down together [TS]

◼   ► side-by-side and like if you try and [TS]

◼   ► connect the dots you can sort of see the [TS]

◼   ► narrative but I was really offended by [TS]

◼   ► one thing in the book I mean really [TS]

◼   ► quite so which is when Martin challans [TS]

◼   ► sister a laser system judge is this is [TS]

◼   ► genuine jane says you know you shouldn't [TS]

◼   ► judge my bar my brother too harshly [TS]

◼   ► after all [TS]

◼   ► plover the author of the fillory and you [TS]

◼   ► know whatever books was doodling [TS]

◼   ► everything God and I'm like oh come on [TS]

◼   ► you throw that in this moment we [TS]

◼   ► supposed to excuse somebody you know [TS]

◼   ► it's like it's like saying well Paul [TS]

◼   ► Pott you know his parents used to beat [TS]

◼   ► him it's like yeah but you know I don't [TS]

◼   ► go and kill it [TS]

◼   ► this is that didn't bother me because I [TS]

◼   ► didn't read that as being legitimately [TS]

◼   ► excusing his behavior so much as [TS]

◼   ► sensitive [TS]

◼   ► much as tearing apart the the author and [TS]

◼   ► saying you know this author was actually [TS]

◼   ► an awful human being but what'll I do [TS]

◼   ► see ya there very gotta put the detailed [TS]

◼   ► the same extraneous me and I I agreed [TS]

◼   ► sort of it it made me you know raise an [TS]

◼   ► eyebrow just like you couldn't resist [TS]

◼   ► turning that into something but I mean [TS]

◼   ► it didn't bother you a didn't bother me [TS]

◼   ► from the same way as being an excuse so [TS]

◼   ► much it just seems like a ok [TS]

◼   ► why isn't there like yes I understand [TS]

◼   ► your point that in the scene [TS]

◼   ► I mean it's a lot of the explicit stuff [TS]

◼   ► throws in is just seems like it's some [TS]

◼   ► for shock value like there's an fairly [TS]

◼   ► early on with Elliot right where we're [TS]

◼   ► quite and stumbles across him involved [TS]

◼   ► in some sort of you know homosexual [TS]

◼   ► tryst or whatever and you know that [TS]

◼   ► informs us to a certain extent about his [TS]

◼   ► character but you know at the same time [TS]

◼   ► it seems you know unnecessarily graphic [TS]

◼   ► or just don't dare to try and shock [TS]

◼   ► people right it could have been done [TS]

◼   ► better there's a movie prick up your [TS]

◼   ► ears about Jordan the playwright and [TS]

◼   ► there's a bit where after he wins a big [TS]

◼   ► award he goes into it you know [TS]

◼   ► aloo in England and manner all over him [TS]

◼   ► and it's like and that was sort of it [TS]

◼   ► was a contrast and terrifying and useful [TS]

◼   ► and exploration of the characters as [TS]

◼   ► opposed to let's degrade this guy while [TS]

◼   ► the guy peeps his head up and then no [TS]

◼   ► okay now we know all about it let's go [TS]

◼   ► and talk about it anymore [TS]

◼   ► yeah just ties into the book as in [TS]

◼   ► general where it feels like Grossman [TS]

◼   ► kind of got carte blanc to do whatever [TS]

◼   ► he wanted in this book and occasionally [TS]

◼   ► he takes it too far and there wasn't [TS]

◼   ► that you know it [TS]

◼   ► no no offense to his editors but there's [TS]

◼   ► I it feels like there wasn't that hand [TS]

◼   ► being like love love what did you told [TS]

◼   ► that back a little bit so I to if we if [TS]

◼   ► we would sum up the reaction here it [TS]

◼   ► sounds like there's a lot of interesting [TS]

◼   ► stuff in this book but that it's really [TS]

◼   ► got a lot of flaws [TS]

◼   ► there's a lot to slog through to get to [TS]

◼   ► the interesting huh yeah and it makes me [TS]

◼   ► really mad to think about it i would [TS]

◼   ► even weeks later and ready for a ready [TS]

◼   ► for the magician's the Phantom edit and [TS]

◼   ► i'm going to read that one huh well you [TS]

◼   ► can tell the sequel magician kings which [TS]

◼   ► is available in bookstores near he heard [TS]

◼   ► that I heard that might make me angry i [TS]

◼   ► retired some people say that they liked [TS]

◼   ► it better and then other people said [TS]

◼   ► that it raged them and they liked the [TS]

◼   ► first one and the second one so i really [TS]

◼   ► don't know what to think I i haven't [TS]

◼   ► read it for that reason I will say [TS]

◼   ► something for that which we haven't said [TS]

◼   ► which is actually a pretty good writer [TS]

◼   ► he is interesting i think his character [TS]

◼   ► strong but you know I don't [TS]

◼   ► the book that I'm not bored or just [TS]

◼   ► irritated by this one actually maybe [TS]

◼   ► sort of angry about it and I think of [TS]

◼   ► opening a strong emotional reaction is [TS]

◼   ► actually you know that makes it [TS]

◼   ► worthwhile i don't like it i'm not sure [TS]

◼   ► i'd recommend other people that I still [TS]

◼   ► commend him for writing in a fashion [TS]

◼   ► that actually enraged me instead of [TS]

◼   ► bored me i liked it i mean i want you i [TS]

◼   ► I think it's flawed but i enjoyed [TS]

◼   ► reading it and I think it could could [TS]

◼   ► have been better [TS]

◼   ► absolutely but some of these scenes will [TS]

◼   ► stick with me and I you know I i enjoyed [TS]

◼   ► the ride and I didn't mind that the [TS]

◼   ► characters were unlikable because that [TS]

◼   ► was ok with me that they weren't they [TS]

◼   ► weren't likable it's true that but I [TS]

◼   ► don't know I i enjoyed it [TS]

◼   ► I've read all those Narnia books I mean [TS]

◼   ► I it's no sin for character to be [TS]

◼   ► unlikable is my feeling it's a it's a [TS]

◼   ► sin for them to be unlikable and [TS]

◼   ► uninteresting [TS]

◼   ► I mean I'm not saying that's necessarily [TS]

◼   ► the case here but I think about you just [TS]

◼   ► too and generally people people often [TS]

◼   ► criticized you know like madmen for [TS]

◼   ► having like characters they're full of [TS]

◼   ► Michael people like yeah they're [TS]

◼   ► unlikable that's true but they're [TS]

◼   ► interesting in and so dislike them that [TS]

◼   ► you don't like dislike them on the [TS]

◼   ► screen but you can't stop watching them [TS]

◼   ► with supporting cast in the magician's [TS]

◼   ► is not strong supporting cast their eyes [TS]

◼   ► yeah besides you know the sort of few [TS]

◼   ► main characters i think there's there's [TS]

◼   ► very few that stand out all the [TS]

◼   ► professor's become interchangeable and I [TS]

◼   ► think that's probably also a failed sort [TS]

◼   ► of thrust harry potter am and I was [TS]

◼   ► going to ask if anyone does anyone have [TS]

◼   ► a favorite character or they all equally [TS]

◼   ► unlikable because i have a favorite [TS]

◼   ► character bicurious anyone else does [TS]

◼   ► and I'm thinking oh yeah i would go with [TS]

◼   ► a second i can't remember his name [TS]

◼   ► because it was long in Russian but the [TS]

◼   ► guy that Antarctica the guy never mind i [TS]

◼   ► think i think he was the most [TS]

◼   ► interesting he has very very little [TS]

◼   ► dialogue but he was in compelling [TS]

◼   ► character especially sort of filling his [TS]

◼   ► backstory later and go ahead when I like [TS]

◼   ► I like penny because parents would text [TS]

◼   ► workable and crazy and turns out to find [TS]

◼   ► the key the key plot element into sorta [TS]

◼   ► he's easygoing as I went along nemesis [TS]

◼   ► and yet he becomes actually vitally [TS]

◼   ► important right but he he is kind of his [TS]

◼   ► own plot like he's in a whole different [TS]

◼   ► story and his whole don't think anybody [TS]

◼   ► would be very interesting because at the [TS]

◼   ► end of your weekend really badly [TS]

◼   ► yeah and he's got fake hands and he [TS]

◼   ► opens his hands he goes he reads books [TS]

◼   ► for the rest of his life apparently it's [TS]

◼   ► a totally different life than everyone [TS]

◼   ► else in the book but but what I like [TS]

◼   ► about that character is his interaction [TS]

◼   ► with Quinn I mean basically there's a [TS]

◼   ► there is a great scene where there [TS]

◼   ► you've set this guy up as well i kind of [TS]

◼   ► don't like him and but I'm sure I [TS]

◼   ► whatever i'm not going to pay attention [TS]

◼   ► to him and then penny kinda like walks [TS]

◼   ► out of the school building and walks [TS]

◼   ► right up to Quinton and places with the [TS]

◼   ► notes and they get in a fight and I [TS]

◼   ► liked that too that it's like we're over [TS]

◼   ► at the Magic School and like I don't [TS]

◼   ► like this guy will [TS]

◼   ► well in harry potter it's like Oh mouth [TS]

◼   ► boy you better watch out [TS]

◼   ► and in this it's like no I'm gonna punch [TS]

◼   ► you in the face and there's something [TS]

◼   ► about that way with penny that he was [TS]

◼   ► very direct very direct fellow i'm just [TS]

◼   ► going to punish you now [TS]

◼   ► yeah it's in your boys sense to me yeah [TS]

◼   ► I don't know about that it was but it [TS]

◼   ► was amusing you know don't enjoy it [TS]

◼   ► enjoy it anyway he's in his own book [TS]

◼   ► yeah he's reading for the pools in the [TS]

◼   ► in the little place that's between the [TS]

◼   ► world [TS]

◼   ► ok let's move on to the Night Circus by [TS]

◼   ► Erin Morgenstern I this is from last [TS]

◼   ► year [TS]

◼   ► this is like I said it's a national [TS]

◼   ► novel writing month book originally she [TS]

◼   ► didn't know what to do with your [TS]

◼   ► characters so she sent them to the [TS]

◼   ► circus and then aha [TS]

◼   ► the circus might be an interesting [TS]

◼   ► subject for a book so this is a you know [TS]

◼   ► a story set in mostly in and around [TS]

◼   ► London although not it's also in Europe [TS]

◼   ► in the in the united states there to [TS]

◼   ► time frames in it which is kind of [TS]

◼   ► surprising and interesting arguably [TS]

◼   ► three wedding and how yeah I suppose [TS]

◼   ► that I suppose that's true [TS]

◼   ► it's basically about these two people [TS]

◼   ► Celia and marco who are chosen as [TS]

◼   ► players in a game between two older [TS]

◼   ► gentleman who are playing a long game [TS]

◼   ► that we don't know the details of and [TS]

◼   ► and Celia and marco are the players and [TS]

◼   ► so they're sort of set against each [TS]

◼   ► other and in a game that that you know [TS]

◼   ► nobody knows the rules of and magic is [TS]

◼   ► at the center of it and and and there's [TS]

◼   ► a creation of a circus and there are [TS]

◼   ► lots of circus people all of whom are [TS]

◼   ► doing magical things and it's a it's [TS]

◼   ► just a strange and I evocative and I [TS]

◼   ► thought really charming charming book [TS]

◼   ► and I I liked it a lot [TS]

◼   ► so what do you guys think has anybody [TS]

◼   ► ever watched the same way ever watch the [TS]

◼   ► HBO show carnevale new episodes remind [TS]

◼   ► you about a lot of the tone that that's [TS]

◼   ► much darker and much more disturbed but [TS]

◼   ► it also takes place at a traveling [TS]

◼   ► carnival and also involves sort of a [TS]

◼   ► that's more of a good and evil Battle [TS]

◼   ► like but there is also an element of [TS]

◼   ► magic well up to it but I mean it'sit's [TS]

◼   ► distinct but the tone reminded me of a [TS]

◼   ► lot and I like carnival a lot and I like [TS]

◼   ► the night circus a lot as well it sort [TS]

◼   ► of reminded me of that but set in a you [TS]

◼   ► know Jonathan strange and mr normal [TS]

◼   ► universe to allude to another [TS]

◼   ► yeah right look right it's this [TS]

◼   ► Victorian so you got the Victorian areas [TS]

◼   ► it's like the late eighteen hundreds and [TS]

◼   ► early nineteen hundreds and and so [TS]

◼   ► you've got that tone which is really [TS]

◼   ► nice you've got like English you know [TS]

◼   ► big English kind of manner buildings and [TS]

◼   ► rooms and things and then the circus [TS]

◼   ► structure and the Traveling Circus and [TS]

◼   ► there's there's magic and the magic [TS]

◼   ► that's done is interesting and that [TS]

◼   ► they're like kinds of magic and they're [TS]

◼   ► they're very limited things that they [TS]

◼   ► can do with the way that they make their [TS]

◼   ► magic in this circus that they that they [TS]

◼   ► build and then they have the different [TS]

◼   ► talents of the the others that the [TS]

◼   ► person who construct the the the clock [TS]

◼   ► that's at the circus it's just it's a [TS]

◼   ► mean there's a lot in there but it's and [TS]

◼   ► at its core two are these two characters [TS]

◼   ► who are on a collision course with one [TS]

◼   ► another from the very beginning you know [TS]

◼   ► it [TS]

◼   ► in contrast with magicians the amount of [TS]

◼   ► supporting characters in this book is [TS]

◼   ► huge and I feel like almost every single [TS]

◼   ► one of them is very well fleshed out [TS]

◼   ► whether we get a point of view chapter [TS]

◼   ► from them or not it's it's really [TS]

◼   ► interesting the amount of sort of [TS]

◼   ► different sub sections that we go into [TS]

◼   ► inside the book because you get the [TS]

◼   ► overarch the overarching story is [TS]

◼   ► basically a love story disguised as a [TS]

◼   ► competition which is fascinating but you [TS]

◼   ► also have you have the undercurrent of [TS]

◼   ► the person who basically puts on the [TS]

◼   ► circus who is more or less unaware until [TS]

◼   ► later on that he is basically being [TS]

◼   ► played as part of a competition but you [TS]

◼   ► have this whole section where he's [TS]

◼   ► basically planning how to build the [TS]

◼   ► circus and you get into his mind like a [TS]

◼   ► producer even though you never even you [TS]

◼   ► never get a point-of-view character for [TS]

◼   ► this for this person you only get him [TS]

◼   ► through the eyes of Marco who's [TS]

◼   ► basically become his his assistant in [TS]

◼   ► order to manipulate aspects of the [TS]

◼   ► circus but his his whole track and the [TS]

◼   ► track of the other sort of patrons of [TS]

◼   ► the circus are that that track is [TS]

◼   ► fascinating [TS]

◼   ► I thought it was a beautiful book and I [TS]

◼   ► agree with run out of the characters [TS]

◼   ► means even the minor ones are richly [TS]

◼   ► fleshed out and it seemed both spare and [TS]

◼   ► full of details so you could be part of [TS]

◼   ► it was fasting that later that it was a [TS]

◼   ► night circus is open at night and things [TS]

◼   ► are either white or black often and read [TS]

◼   ► was used as that theme to identify the [TS]

◼   ► people are sort of became associated [TS]

◼   ► with and traveled with to see the circus [TS]

◼   ► but and the red is the color of one of [TS]

◼   ► the twins hair is born at midnight when [TS]

◼   ► the bonfires lived in the bonfire is [TS]

◼   ► multicolored and there's just don't know [TS]

◼   ► everything was it felt like it was full [TS]

◼   ► of imagery and symbolism but without [TS]

◼   ► anyone having to take upon a specific [TS]

◼   ► heavy-handed being and even the fact [TS]

◼   ► that i always liked books that involve [TS]

◼   ► magic or even sometimes science fiction [TS]

◼   ► where the issues are dispensed with [TS]

◼   ► really fast so we don't actually really [TS]

◼   ► care what the basis of magic is in this [TS]

◼   ► book it's not discussed it sort of waved [TS]

◼   ► away but it feels a realistic in the [TS]

◼   ► sense that it's consistent and it arises [TS]

◼   ► out of effort and will in a way that is [TS]

◼   ► consistent among all the characters [TS]

◼   ► involved throughout the book [TS]

◼   ► and I like the the light touch their [TS]

◼   ► let's treat it like a craft craft right [TS]

◼   ► everything kind of makes sense in the [TS]

◼   ► way that a certain things happen in the [TS]

◼   ► plot and there's a lot of kids a lot of [TS]

◼   ► books to read and you'd be like well why [TS]

◼   ► didn't this thing do this at this point [TS]

◼   ► you know I was thinking particular i [TS]

◼   ► just finished this book earlier the [TS]

◼   ► before the recording here so I'm [TS]

◼   ► thinking in particular the ending where [TS]

◼   ► you know sort of the circus has been [TS]

◼   ► suspended [TS]

◼   ► well as issues are worked out and are [TS]

◼   ► one of our protagonist from the other [TS]

◼   ► timeline a young young man was sort of [TS]

◼   ► being chosen to be the next proprietor [TS]

◼   ► of the circus [TS]

◼   ► he's sort of going around investigating [TS]

◼   ► why everyone is sort of frozen in the [TS]

◼   ► circus and there's one person who is [TS]

◼   ► there to sort of breed him that the [TS]

◼   ► contortionist and so so they can't [TS]

◼   ► the question is why is she able to walk [TS]

◼   ► around with nobody elses and you know [TS]

◼   ► the answer is well she's sort of a [TS]

◼   ► magician in her own right [TS]

◼   ► it's not important that we know the [TS]

◼   ► mechanics exactly haha she was immune to [TS]

◼   ► their power is based on this message was [TS]

◼   ► like oh she kinda knows magic [TS]

◼   ► yeah it makes sense of it doesn't need [TS]

◼   ► the detail and she was in the end it's [TS]

◼   ► the balance of the love story there's so [TS]

◼   ► many balanced forces of sort of love and [TS]

◼   ► jealousy and loss and there are neatly [TS]

◼   ► arranged so you're just like oh of [TS]

◼   ► course she's the one she's the one that [TS]

◼   ► was gradually revealed that she been a [TS]

◼   ► competitor in a previous round of this [TS]

◼   ► competition and so it makes sense and [TS]

◼   ► the kid who is sort of brought us a [TS]

◼   ► prior like his need for change in just [TS]

◼   ► had the fact that he comes along is that [TS]

◼   ► happenstance things happen in the book [TS]

◼   ► for what seemed to be accidental reasons [TS]

◼   ► but there's almost a purpose or fate [TS]

◼   ► behind them and you just accept that [TS]

◼   ► because it's part i mean the book is all [TS]

◼   ► about everything being balanced and [TS]

◼   ► whatever the balance goes off there's a [TS]

◼   ► great scene you know relatively in the [TS]

◼   ► book where the lover of Marcos lover [TS]

◼   ► realizes that he never really loved her [TS]

◼   ► and it over not a horrible way she [TS]

◼   ► doesn't you know go totally nuts but she [TS]

◼   ► had learned enough magic to keep both [TS]

◼   ► Marco and his opponent in balance and [TS]

◼   ► she unravels that and then the book [TS]

◼   ► starts to wind up the clock starts to [TS]

◼   ► spring start to pop out basically and [TS]

◼   ► things start to happen sorry good better [TS]

◼   ► for it and the flies all over the place [TS]

◼   ► but it was [TS]

◼   ► it made perfect sense it's like she was [TS]

◼   ► so the linchpin is is various people are [TS]

◼   ► in love and the clockmaker being in love [TS]

◼   ► with don't forget her name with the with [TS]

◼   ► Celia that's a that's a lovely bit [TS]

◼   ► though the fact that clock maker who I [TS]

◼   ► you know supposed to be slightly older I [TS]

◼   ► guess and they have some kind of love [TS]

◼   ► affair but it's not it's not as deep as [TS]

◼   ► the one with Marco but she loves him in [TS]

◼   ► a certain way and that doesn't become [TS]

◼   ► this strange twisted thing it's just [TS]

◼   ► part of all the mechanics of the of the [TS]

◼   ► you can kind of get away with that in a [TS]

◼   ► Victorian gettin awful [TS]

◼   ► that's right yeah i think it's also [TS]

◼   ► almost an intellectual of a fair mother [TS]

◼   ► has any kind of physical thing because [TS]

◼   ► he is you know he happens to be the [TS]

◼   ► maker of the clock and then he also ends [TS]

◼   ► up being basically the voice for the [TS]

◼   ► circus to the general public who wants [TS]

◼   ► to know more about it is the divorce fan [TS]

◼   ► yeah 100 feet I'm your biggest and then [TS]

◼   ► he's interviewing him he created his boy [TS]

◼   ► he's killed in the clinic starts the [TS]

◼   ► Clippers killed in the clock starts the [TS]

◼   ► one down right [TS]

◼   ► ok that is one of the that that is a [TS]

◼   ► affecting scene 2 which is how it's [TS]

◼   ► beautiful [TS]

◼   ► can I just say I love I mean she's for a [TS]

◼   ► first-time rider she has a impeccable [TS]

◼   ► control over the language in terms of [TS]

◼   ► however loss places except for not such [TS]

◼   ► a loser for what purpose places she's [TS]

◼   ► continually gluing to set in dialogues [TS]

◼   ► will continually good two sentences [TS]

◼   ► together with a comma which is I think [TS]

◼   ► done for painting but it drives me [TS]

◼   ► insane with it [TS]

◼   ► well that she's a she's a beautiful [TS]

◼   ► writer and and with the exception of her [TS]

◼   ► comma splices which I I think you might [TS]

◼   ► be able to forgive as a style choice he [TS]

◼   ► received overly intention language so [TS]

◼   ► that way there's no way and editors [TS]

◼   ► gonna let that many of them go [TS]

◼   ► it's like yeah you're doing comma [TS]

◼   ► splices but really I got to talk to live [TS]

◼   ► Grossman about his book to read [TS]

◼   ► I don't get ready first-time novelists [TS]

◼   ► who are very few with this beauty that [TS]

◼   ► um what's the one who wrote the hundred [TS]

◼   ► thousand kingdoms NK jemisin yeah [TS]

◼   ► yes i returned to you for all the names [TS]

◼   ► you always i mentioned how much I love [TS]

◼   ► the book on Twitter and lisas [TS]

◼   ► spangenberg who's an author and editor [TS]

◼   ► she went with her friend she said that [TS]

◼   ► the book was actually workshop not just [TS]

◼   ► on [TS]

◼   ► nanowrimo but on what's called aww is an [TS]

◼   ► author's forum that people use and she [TS]

◼   ► was apparently great participate in it [TS]

◼   ► and listen to suggestions and is [TS]

◼   ► incredibly generous with her time now [TS]

◼   ► after the book is coming out so [TS]

◼   ► interesting that it just it has that [TS]

◼   ► sense of having been you know you think [TS]

◼   ► it's someone's fourth book but the IMF [TS]

◼   ► is the first she wrote you know [TS]

◼   ► sometimes people have the first as we [TS]

◼   ► all know first and second in the drawer [TS]

◼   ► the third is the first one is published [TS]

◼   ► but it does feel like a mature novelist [TS]

◼   ► so I read a criticism of this book from [TS]

◼   ► somebody just you know people on the [TS]

◼   ► internet people who don't like this book [TS]

◼   ► seemed to not like it because they say [TS]

◼   ► well it's all just descriptions of [TS]

◼   ► things and nothing much happens because [TS]

◼   ► it was so much the scribing of items and [TS]

◼   ► the colors and and details of things [TS]

◼   ► like so basically can help this is what [TS]

◼   ► I'll say is if if what you're looking [TS]

◼   ► for out of a novel is a series of plot [TS]

◼   ► if pot points and events [TS]

◼   ► yes this book might disappoint you a [TS]

◼   ► little bit because because a lot of the [TS]

◼   ► a lot of it not all that there is a plot [TS]

◼   ► there is there is a lot of flavor club [TS]

◼   ► but there's a lot of like there's a lot [TS]

◼   ► of describing of the scene and it's a [TS]

◼   ► fantastical setting and instead of [TS]

◼   ► saying [TS]

◼   ► suffice it to say it's a magic circus [TS]

◼   ► now let's get down to the business of [TS]

◼   ► the plot of the thing that didn't happen [TS]

◼   ► what I like too much about it is is that [TS]

◼   ► it's very atmospheric and it treats [TS]

◼   ► magic as something that is special [TS]

◼   ► yeah and and precious right so you so [TS]

◼   ► many of these fantasy books read magic [TS]

◼   ► is just part of you ever get out of this [TS]

◼   ► magic there's magic guy who cares [TS]

◼   ► it makes me i'm still a teenager and i'm [TS]

◼   ► still a bit of an ass but I in this book [TS]

◼   ► it's like it's magic it's it's magical [TS]

◼   ► there's no other way to describe it it's [TS]

◼   ► just like when I was as i was reading it [TS]

◼   ► and I am known not to like an adult [TS]

◼   ► fiction but I felt it made me feel like [TS]

◼   ► a kid again reading a book which is a [TS]

◼   ► great kind of feeling to have right yeah [TS]

◼   ► that it's fantastical like that yes the [TS]

◼   ► magic is special and when they do it's [TS]

◼   ► weird and elemental and and sometimes [TS]

◼   ► it's whimsical and sometimes it's scary [TS]

◼   ► but it's never it's never pedestrian [TS]

◼   ► it's never boring [TS]

◼   ► it's only it's always hoggin all with [TS]

◼   ► their match [TS]

◼   ► or something you know yeah the magic is [TS]

◼   ► magical excited me a little bit of uh I [TS]

◼   ► know a lot of people talk about the [TS]

◼   ► prestige which is a a book and a movie [TS]

◼   ► set in sort of Victorian England but the [TS]

◼   ► one that reminds me a little bit more as [TS]

◼   ► they came around the same time as a [TS]

◼   ► movie called The Illusionist with a [TS]

◼   ► normal which also has a beautiful it's a [TS]

◼   ► extremely atmospheric movie I highly [TS]

◼   ► recommended by the way it's out it's [TS]

◼   ► actually very clear those movies are [TS]

◼   ► under all those movies are good they're [TS]

◼   ► very different as an illusionist yes is [TS]

◼   ► reminds me more of this be its own the [TS]

◼   ► illusionist is also more of a love story [TS]

◼   ► first edition arguably you you know [TS]

◼   ► there's something funny i was reading [TS]

◼   ► the book and I couldn't put my finger on [TS]

◼   ► what made it seem familiar and after a [TS]

◼   ► while I realized it reminded me of [TS]

◼   ► moby-dick which may sound ridiculous [TS]

◼   ► this is the descriptions no prescription [TS]

◼   ► is very well and and I really got me so [TS]

◼   ► the it that richness is that people read [TS]

◼   ► you know I'm sure we'll have to read it [TS]

◼   ► in high school and i'm reading a high [TS]

◼   ► school thing is the most boring thing [TS]

◼   ► which everyone does then i read it as an [TS]

◼   ► adult discovered Moby Dick is actually [TS]

◼   ► hilarious if you're not reading it [TS]

◼   ► tendentious Lee and analyzing everything [TS]

◼   ► it's a hilarious book but it's also [TS]

◼   ► every chapter and all the descriptions [TS]

◼   ► of the obtaining of the spur bassetti [TS]

◼   ► and all the rest of it it's it builds up [TS]

◼   ► this incredibly rich picture building up [TS]

◼   ► this inventory in the storehouse of your [TS]

◼   ► mind into which then the story unfolds [TS]

◼   ► and it's a you know weird literary [TS]

◼   ► convention not to make away with that I [TS]

◼   ► felt she did parts of that is she [TS]

◼   ► interleaved the narrative so it wasn't [TS]

◼   ► purely descriptive but there is a lot of [TS]

◼   ► it that was building up this storehouse [TS]

◼   ► the powder keg of all these forces [TS]

◼   ► arrayed in a lot of detail and [TS]

◼   ► background stories and then at the end [TS]

◼   ► it's just explosion explosion explosion [TS]

◼   ► explosion but you understood it all in [TS]

◼   ► that bigger context she created i love [TS]

◼   ► the moment in this book where r2 r2 [TS]

◼   ► participants finally really come [TS]

◼   ► together which involves a torrential [TS]

◼   ► downpour and a magic umbrella you stole [TS]

◼   ► the scene right from my mouth that is [TS]

◼   ► probably like oh it's beautiful is a [TS]

◼   ► fantastic memorable scene and you know [TS]

◼   ► there aren't that many bits of all right [TS]

◼   ► it does a great job of ratcheting things [TS]

◼   ► up without spelling everything out right [TS]

◼   ► there's still some suspense at the end [TS]

◼   ► of it they have now identified each [TS]

◼   ► other but and he invites her fridge [TS]

◼   ► drink right and then she goes maybe some [TS]

◼   ► other time and then disappear that I was [TS]

◼   ► a great if you could sort of it's not [TS]

◼   ► you know the balance doesn't tip right [TS]

◼   ► in one direction or the other it's sort [TS]

◼   ► of not even if anything that's the scene [TS]

◼   ► that the levels it and i think one of [TS]

◼   ► the things I really liked about this in [TS]

◼   ► some ways that I you know I realized i [TS]

◼   ► found myself anticipating and seeing a [TS]

◼   ► lot of the plots points coming but it's [TS]

◼   ► not i think there's an amount of [TS]

◼   ► predictability in certain books that is [TS]

◼   ► not necessarily a bad thing and it's [TS]

◼   ► kind of reassuring it's like putting a [TS]

◼   ► puzzle together when you kind of know [TS]

◼   ► what the picture is supposed to be so [TS]

◼   ► there's a certain joy in revealing it as [TS]

◼   ► you go in finding out how those pieces [TS]

◼   ► together right so I i think that that [TS]

◼   ► for me like I could see how some of [TS]

◼   ► these things were progressing but [TS]

◼   ► there's a satisfaction in in seeing it [TS]

◼   ► come together the way that you expected [TS]

◼   ► absolutely and to the description note i [TS]

◼   ► would say that those individual tense [TS]

◼   ► within the circus are so fantastical [TS]

◼   ► that the description like I'm i am anti [TS]

◼   ► Charles Dickens because of his excessive [TS]

◼   ► description but that said like the the [TS]

◼   ► description of each of the tents and how [TS]

◼   ► they work and you know all this one is [TS]

◼   ► is ice and this one is clouds this does [TS]

◼   ► this reminds me there's a I'm san [TS]

◼   ► Francisco has a has a night truck thing [TS]

◼   ► that happens basically twice a year [TS]

◼   ► three times a year Brooklyn has this as [TS]

◼   ► well and I think it originated in [TS]

◼   ► Brooklyn where it's just a bunch of [TS]

◼   ► theater people rent boxcar trucks and [TS]

◼   ► make fantastical elements within them [TS]

◼   ► and i actually got to go to one of these [TS]

◼   ► last year and like they're all cut like [TS]

◼   ► I felt very similar reading this book [TS]

◼   ► and like looking at the the various [TS]

◼   ► tents to actually go to the get that [TS]

◼   ► boxcar the evening market because the [TS]

◼   ► the truck was like one of the trucks i [TS]

◼   ► went to was a Brigadoon library only [TS]

◼   ► appears once every hundred years or once [TS]

◼   ► every yeah once every hundred years and [TS]

◼   ► then there was one where they did items [TS]

◼   ► in liquid nitrogen and then they just [TS]

◼   ► smash them so it's like it's all that [TS]

◼   ► you know the mix of the fantastical and [TS]

◼   ► me and the Jermaine and I don't know it [TS]

◼   ► was just having having had that [TS]

◼   ► experience I think it made the novel [TS]

◼   ► that my [TS]

◼   ► more interesting to me that one of the [TS]

◼   ► multiple perspectives is is a great way [TS]

◼   ► to get you to see the circus because we [TS]

◼   ► have the you know the story of sort of [TS]

◼   ► like you are entering the circus and and [TS]

◼   ► you're seeing what's happening in the [TS]

◼   ► circus from from this perspective that [TS]

◼   ► sort of outside and you've got the story [TS]

◼   ► of the kid who is dared by his sister to [TS]

◼   ► break in to the circus when you're not [TS]

◼   ► supposed to go there and he and he meets [TS]

◼   ► a girl and she gives him something as [TS]

◼   ► proof and then he leaves and you think [TS]

◼   ► well that's an interesting little thing [TS]

◼   ► but of course it's actually part of the [TS]

◼   ► story and it's a different part of the [TS]

◼   ► timeline so you are learning things that [TS]

◼   ► you later on you you really started [TS]

◼   ► flipping back and forth like okay when [TS]

◼   ► you have you guys did that take place [TS]

◼   ► ok hold on it and it sort of starts to [TS]

◼   ► dovetail right like towards the ethical [TS]

◼   ► look you look at the new music [TS]

◼   ► it gives you dates you're like what [TS]

◼   ► blood date whatever its 1908 its unity [TS]

◼   ► through whatever and then you realize oh [TS]

◼   ► Jesus the dates matter because this girl [TS]

◼   ► that we met hasn't been born at well [TS]

◼   ► isn't that clever how they I love the [TS]

◼   ► bit about where maybe this happened [TS]

◼   ► everyone knows about I don't know [TS]

◼   ► quarter of the third of the way through [TS]

◼   ► and so then I'm like these people are [TS]

◼   ► too old but with with a minute and then [TS]

◼   ► right when you realize that then she [TS]

◼   ► starts to reveal and then it becomes a [TS]

◼   ► thing and she sort of explains it but it [TS]

◼   ► is it's in there if you look as I [TS]

◼   ► noticed it fairly early on that they're [TS]

◼   ► like you know we don't seem to be you [TS]

◼   ► know getting any older her its it starts [TS]

◼   ► to come in and you realize there's [TS]

◼   ► something something very peculiar and [TS]

◼   ► you have that terribly tragic scene [TS]

◼   ► right with one of the twins [TS]

◼   ► oh gosh yeah doesn't want to [TS]

◼   ► we just can't handle you know everything [TS]

◼   ► being so magical and mystical and ends [TS]

◼   ► up you know more or less [TS]

◼   ► well she doesn't commit suicide but [TS]

◼   ► she's sort of drawn into sort of the i [TS]

◼   ► entice to the later [TS]

◼   ► yeah right by a train because you look [TS]

◼   ► at the proprietor as well of the certain [TS]

◼   ► that the provider but the person who [TS]

◼   ► produced the circus yeah yeah yeahs and [TS]

◼   ► watch him slowly go insane [TS]

◼   ► it's it's kind of horrifying a little [TS]

◼   ► all the background you have Prospero the [TS]

◼   ► enchanter and the enter enigmatic mr. [TS]

◼   ► and i love this mr. aah [TS]

◼   ► chef Victoria also very Victorian oh I i [TS]

◼   ► love that is so the separation and [TS]

◼   ► Prospero is Caelius father who he and [TS]

◼   ► she's delivered to him and he's like [TS]

◼   ► yeah I guess she's one of mine he [TS]

◼   ► realizes she's got magic energy is like [TS]

◼   ► all right well that's good and uh [TS]

◼   ► there's great stuff with him because you [TS]

◼   ► know you could do this is a almost lost [TS]

◼   ► kind of you know there's a abandoned [TS]

◼   ► black man and white and they have a game [TS]

◼   ► but goes on with the return but they're [TS]

◼   ► both kind of dicks like if they're bet [TS]

◼   ► it's exactly yeah it's you don't have [TS]

◼   ► that here and then prosper also you're [TS]

◼   ► like oh he's magic and and he's like [TS]

◼   ► yeah but he kind of is trying to do [TS]

◼   ► something to himself and he makes [TS]

◼   ► everybody starts to disappear rules [TS]

◼   ► that's the most beautiful thousand [TS]

◼   ► beautiful intelligent market when Marco [TS]

◼   ► asks like an amber necklace Ilya s Celia [TS]

◼   ► says what happened to your father he [TS]

◼   ► said well imagine what was the [TS]

◼   ► description was if you take a glass of [TS]

◼   ► wine and your crew and you remove the [TS]

◼   ► glass if you did that in a bowl of water [TS]

◼   ► it's one thing but if you do in the [TS]

◼   ► ocean it's another well he tried for the [TS]

◼   ► ocean equipment like oh wow yeah and so [TS]

◼   ► he's he's he's kind of a ghost now and [TS]

◼   ► then mr. a you know eh ok under in [TS]

◼   ► common [TS]