The Incomparable

308: Is Winter Coming?


  the incomparable number 310 eight july [TS]

  2016 welcome back everybody to the [TS]

  incomparable i'm your host Jason style [TS]

  we're here to talk about the TV season [TS]

  on past now TV is to a sort of a 12 [TS]

  month a year thing now but we like to [TS]

  mark the end of the traditional TV [TS]

  season we did an episode about all the [TS]

  many superhero shows that are out there [TS]

  but there's a lot more we usually at the [TS]

  end of the game of thrones season we [TS]

  talk about it so we're gonna we're gonna [TS]

  do that tonight and we're also going to [TS]

  talk about a bunch of other shows that [TS]

  we liked over the last year basically [TS]

  nine months a year that don't involve [TS]

  superheroes basically so joining me to [TS]

  talk about more TV from the past year [TS]

  things that we liked and watched maybe [TS]

  we didn't like them but we still watch [TS]

  them that's a compulsion that happens [TS]

  our might define panelist and more'n [TS]

  hello hello [TS]

  I thank you for turning away from TV [TS]

  temporarily just to talk on a podcast [TS]

  about TV [TS]

  I literally finished a TV episode so [TS]

  that i could come on to talk about TV [TS]

  amazing amazing I is your commitment [TS]

  you're welcome [TS]

  only in Sims is also here hello hello [TS]

  turns out you were saying on Twitter you [TS]

  you watch a lot more TV than you thought [TS]

  you did when you put the list together [TS]

  yeah we I was frantically trying to like [TS]

  us putting my going through itunes like [TS]

  okay what if we purchased and I was like [TS]

  oh we've spent more money on TV than I [TS]

  thought we had so it's very exciting [TS]

  yeah you lose track a little bit and [TS]

  then you're reminded when it's time to [TS]

  sum it up and you realize oh Erica and [TS]

  signs also with us [TS]

  hello hi yeah I've watch less TV than i [TS]

  thought but i think i came up with two [TS]

  shows that probably nobody else watched [TS]

  all right but at least i watch something [TS]

  gosh darn it it's good uh brian hamilton [TS]

  is also here [TS]

  hi brian i'm also quite out of the loop [TS]

  when it comes to most TV but I've got [TS]

  some unique things I don't think many [TS]

  people are watching enough to talk about [TS]

  my podcasts owe her a nice very nice [TS]

  somebody who is the the one person here [TS]

  who does not watch Game of Thrones but [TS]

  he's here to talk about shows that [TS]

  aren't game of thrones David lure hi I'm [TS]

  just happy to say that winter is [TS]

  here really inaccuracies yeah but yes i [TS]

  have a nice list and also always joining [TS]

  us for this season rap game of thrones [TS]

  business is mr. John siracusa hi I'm [TS]

  missing the last 10 minutes of the [TS]

  second-to-last episode of asian car did [TS]

  you know there are they became like to [TS]

  our episodes at some point it's really [TS]

  confusing and it's messing with my [TS]

  scheduling but anyway that's a show I [TS]

  watched the baby burn that off [TS]

  basically it's sad that APC didn't have [TS]

  a lot of commitment in it [TS]

  alright so before we talk about Game of [TS]

  Thrones for the second part of the of [TS]

  the show and consult the show notes or [TS]

  the chapter markers if you want to jump [TS]

  to the game of thrones part not listen [TS]

  to other things but i want to talk about [TS]

  other shows that we watched that are we [TS]

  weren't covered in the superhero episode [TS]

  that we wanna do we wanna bring up and I [TS]

  want to throw one out there first which [TS]

  is one of the more notable shows that [TS]

  the last year I i caught up on it after [TS]

  the Golden Globe win for its a creator [TS]

  and lead actress crazy ex-girlfriend on [TS]

  the CW i thought was a real find of this [TS]

  year a lot of fun name up a musical with [TS]

  a funny title that made a turn a lot of [TS]

  people off i think but a very smart [TS]

  funny and self-aware musical series [TS]

  comedy drama thing unlike many other [TS]

  shows that are out there and I got [TS]

  finally got caught up i watched all of [TS]

  them and I thought it was great [TS]

  I thought it was really great and i know [TS]

  that some of the some of you have also [TS]

  seen it John you you were praising crazy [TS]

  ex-girlfriend I saw you and Rachel bloom [TS]

  actually had a little Twitter exchange [TS]

  which was kind of exciting [TS]

  yeah we're besties yeah totally i was i [TS]

  was charmed by it because I thought you [TS]

  said is totally accurate i was totally [TS]

  turned off by the title I didn't think [TS]

  this this is not a show for me I thought [TS]

  just didn't seem like something i would [TS]

  be interested in but i also know nothing [TS]

  about it other than the title so her [TS]

  enough people raving about it and I [TS]

  watched an episode of two and i was [TS]

  surprised i was surprised by the singing [TS]

  I was surprised by how clever it was and [TS]

  how is in a different twist on the sort [TS]

  of it's not it's not as cynical I think [TS]

  as most comedies are and i'm not even [TS]

  like a comedy sitcom kind of person [TS]

  as it war on it's like there's a lot of [TS]

  the more of the same so the charm kind [TS]

  of wears off because a lot of it is the [TS]

  the novelty of that but i don't think [TS]

  the show actually gets any worse I think [TS]

  it's just always going to be this and [TS]

  it's gonna be yeah yeah episode after [TS]

  episode of this but I still like it i [TS]

  still enjoyed and I will keep watching [TS]

  it its musical theater on TV so of [TS]

  course i like it and yeah it's it's [TS]

  uneven for the first two episodes 3 [TS]

  episodes but it it finds its footing a [TS]

  lot quicker than shows like cougar town [TS]

  which also had a really unfortunate [TS]

  title and turned into a pretty decent [TS]

  show [TS]

  yeah i was gonna throw don't trust the B [TS]

  in apartment 23 with krysten ritter is [TS]

  another example of a show that I [TS]

  literally didn't watch because i didn't [TS]

  notice but I looked at the title i'm [TS]

  like yeah I that's not for me and I [TS]

  actually thought that was gonna be the [TS]

  premise of this show too and it's like [TS]

  it turns out these premises these titles [TS]

  can like they're notable and yet they [TS]

  can shoot down there show ya just about [TS]

  yeah but it's it's charming i mean the [TS]

  just the videos I've sent people to the [TS]

  videos of the songs just to say this is [TS]

  what you could see weekly and you know [TS]

  you've got Rachel bloom and Adam [TS]

  schlessinger of fountains of wayne [TS]

  writing music yeah and not just in one [TS]

  style I mean they're hitting and you [TS]

  know decades of of styles here and [TS]

  nailing pretty much every one of them [TS]

  which you know it takes it takes cojones [TS]

  to do a fake music man song and do it [TS]

  that well I am impressed by the fact [TS]

  that the there are moments where I i see [TS]

  where they're going in terms of the [TS]

  clichés and then I'm surprised because [TS]

  I just assume they're falling into the [TS]

  clichés that they don't I i like the [TS]

  fact that the object of her of her [TS]

  affection [TS]

  josh is not i would say a character that [TS]

  you see a lot on television in that he [TS]

  is not the sharpest tool in the shed but [TS]

  he he's a but he's a nice like a [TS]

  genuinely nice guy and I think it's an [TS]

  interesting combination that usually in [TS]

  a soapy kind of story that guy is either [TS]

  just a super amazing dream boat or he's [TS]

  a CAD and this guy is not either of [TS]

  those things he's just a dude [TS]

  who is / is very nice but not [TS]

  necessarily close to as smart as Rachel [TS]

  blooms character is so I thought that [TS]

  was interesting i I'm my own frustration [TS]

  with the show was probably that I felt [TS]

  like again that they set up a lot of [TS]

  things that seem fairly obvious as [TS]

  directions they were going in and then [TS]

  seemed over the course of the season to [TS]

  not be sure whether they wanted to steer [TS]

  into the slide or away from the slide [TS]

  like do we go against what we set up or [TS]

  do we go with what we set up and in the [TS]

  the relationships of the various [TS]

  characters over the course of the season [TS]

  that was the part where I thought it was [TS]

  kind of strange where it's like I see in [TS]

  4 episode was like I see what's gonna [TS]

  happen she's gonna move to California [TS]

  and because that's the premise of the [TS]

  show the woman who's a lawyer in New [TS]

  York is very unhappy with California [TS]

  where her ex-boyfriend from Camp lives [TS]

  and there are lots of songs and she [TS]

  tries to pretend that she's not a [TS]

  stalker which she kinda is but it's very [TS]

  clear from the beginning that she's [TS]

  gonna end up with the cynical bartender [TS]

  and not the dream boy because that can't [TS]

  be real and throughout the season it [TS]

  feels like not like a clever will wonder [TS]

  what is my expectation about this [TS]

  relationship but more like they can't [TS]

  decide whether they're gonna go with the [TS]

  one guy or the other guy or what [TS]

  and that that part III did feel like [TS]

  almost like the writers just didn't know [TS]

  what they wanted to do but it's a it's a [TS]

  relatively minor quibble there's a whole [TS]

  episode where they're trapped in a party [TS]

  bus and it is the least exciting party [TS]

  bus ever as they go to the beach [TS]

  yeah it'sit's I i highly recommend it's [TS]

  available on streaming now I think just [TS]

  just went up on for streaming on netflix [TS]

  maybe so young people check it out to [TS]

  your point David I know nothing about [TS]

  the show but I've seen settle for me [TS]

  about 10-15 times just because the song [TS]

  so fantastic and I thought oh ok yeah [TS]

  this is AI know sitcom and they do a [TS]

  cute little musical scene here I no idea [TS]

  was a musical until just now so thanks [TS]

  for selling me on it [TS]

  oh yeah I mean there's there's a song [TS]

  look up cold shower which is basically [TS]

  you got trouble from the music man there [TS]

  is a song that I [TS]

  no entirely too many women have told me [TS]

  this is their life a song called heavy [TS]

  boobs sure yeah oh yeah that's a great [TS]

  song that's an amazing zone its and it's [TS]

  catchy as hell [TS]

  oh god yes ya know it it is there [TS]

  they're like to at least I basically [TS]

  there to musical numbers every episode [TS]

  is an hour long show which every time I [TS]

  watch it I think it's going to be a half [TS]

  hour because it's kind of comedy but [TS]

  it's it's not into hour-long show so [TS]

  it's breezy and and on Monday nights it [TS]

  was a nice pairing with Jane the Virgin [TS]

  it was yes [TS]

  not the same kind of whimsy but two [TS]

  shows that that sort of hit that sort of [TS]

  perfect level of whimsy and just go with [TS]

  it [TS]

  I kind of wish that there are more songs [TS]

  in it like maybe an ingredient maybe [TS]

  it's kind of like the budget is showing [TS]

  because it's like it's hard to come up [TS]

  with it even looks and songs per episode [TS]

  and they just don't have the time or [TS]

  money to get more than that but because [TS]

  they are so good it's like how much the [TS]

  whole show is like this and had just you [TS]

  know like an actual music me like brief [TS]

  brief moments of non-music in between [TS]

  just to set up the next musical number [TS]

  but instead there's lots of regular TV [TS]

  show in there and the regular TV show is [TS]

  like Jason's that kind of silly and a [TS]

  lot of will they won't they [TS]

  but at I think it's nice in that all of [TS]

  the characters are messed up in some way [TS]

  not a seinfeld way where everybody is [TS]

  just a terrible person but that [TS]

  everybody even the nice guy josh is not [TS]

  like og perfect nice guy like everybody [TS]

  has their hang-ups everybody has their [TS]

  issues nobody is purely good nobody's [TS]

  purely bed which I think helps them with [TS]

  the thing they have to do to keep these [TS]

  balls in here you can't have it resolved [TS]

  because then the show is over [TS]

  it helps you understand why might [TS]

  someone be indecisive and why my people [TS]

  not be able to find each other because [TS]

  everybody's messed up in some way in the [TS]

  show and you know it's it's kind of a [TS]

  reverse like tomatoes a little later [TS]

  like a reverse of the typical thing [TS]

  where it's not a show for women but the [TS]

  show with actual women characters which [TS]

  is now sort of it in the current context [TS]

  coded as a woman's show and then the men [TS]

  are the love interests and it's like [TS]

  nice to see the love interest to [TS]

  actually be real characters instead of [TS]

  his cardboard cutouts like josh is a [TS]

  person who has good things and bad [TS]

  things about them and what's-his-name [TS]

  bartender guy [TS]

  it has bad things about him but it's [TS]

  also a nice guy on top of that and [TS]

  instead of them just being defined by [TS]

  their [TS]

  the color or whatever you like you you [TS]

  just you just mentally genderswap this [TS]

  whole show it becomes a lot more [TS]

  conventional but it's not it's actually [TS]

  the other way around um and it's and [TS]

  it's good for for a silly musical comedy [TS]

  thing to have characters there you know [TS]

  obviously silly but imbued with a tiny [TS]

  bit of humanity both good and bad it's [TS]

  it's pretty novel it's it's refreshing [TS]

  and and E is science fiction fans might [TS]

  know Rachel bloom before this for a song [TS]

  she wrote about Ray Bradbury yes that [TS]

  was nominated for hugo award the other [TS]

  thing i wanted to say was that uh [TS]

  there's a there's a there's some [TS]

  interesting relationship dynamics [TS]

  there's a strong relationship between [TS]

  Rachel blues character and her a buddy [TS]

  who works at the at the law firm that I [TS]

  think is an interesting and and for [TS]

  television more unconventional [TS]

  relationship of two women who are who [TS]

  are our best pals and become kind of [TS]

  best pals on the spot and there's [TS]

  weirdness in their relationship but it's [TS]

  actually kind of great and the guy who [TS]

  runs the law firm is a fantastic [TS]

  character who discovers he's bisexual [TS]

  about halfway through and there is a [TS]

  song about that too [TS]

  oh yes there is and it's great it's so [TS]

  great so anyway it's a it's a good show [TS]

  highly recommended what else anybody [TS]

  else wanna throw out some show that [TS]

  they've been like in the last year that [TS]

  they want to talk about a little bit in [TS]

  the same thing as when I gather from [TS]

  crazy ex-girlfriend i'm really enjoying [TS]

  younger which is another show that you [TS]

  would not expect from something like TV [TS]

  land but it's a really great show in [TS]

  terms of real characters are doing real [TS]

  things and actually you know it it [TS]

  doesn't feel as fake as something like [TS]

  Seinfeld it's it's nice to see a TV Land [TS]

  evolving beyond hot in cleveland not [TS]

  that there's anything necessarily wrong [TS]

  with hot in cleveland [TS]

  but but they're aiming at a broader [TS]

  demographic they're not hanging at you [TS]

  know 18 to 34 they're interested in [TS]

  shows that human beings which is kind of [TS]

  a shift for them some i'm curious to see [TS]

  where that goes but it but younger is [TS]

  like the first of the new the new wave [TS]

  of TV Land shows [TS]

  mm ali what about you some their show [TS]

  out there that you [TS]

  that you've been watching that you've [TS]

  this is not a draft by the way I just [TS]

  trying to draw people out nobody wins [TS]

  there no winners here we're all winners [TS]

  yeah overall winners they're all for [TS]

  losers [TS]

  yeah all winners around here at Steven [TS]

  universe Steven universe is maybe my [TS]

  favorite show ever [TS]

  at this point and it's a cartoon it's a [TS]

  cartoon networkcartoon and it's goofy [TS]

  but it's it's it's so cute and heartfelt [TS]

  in science fiction and fantasy all at [TS]

  the same time and it has really strong [TS]

  pro lgbtq+ themes and and its really [TS]

  positive in a way that especially around [TS]

  those types of things like I feel like [TS]

  you know we get at things are getting [TS]

  better definitely but but we talk about [TS]

  the LGBTQ community and people who [TS]

  belong in that community become [TS]

  punchlines often times and it totally [TS]

  completely not in Steven universe and [TS]

  it's got songs so so speaking of [TS]

  musicals and there are not every episode [TS]

  but a lot of episodes have songs a lot [TS]

  of ukulele and it's just it's it's a [TS]

  neat ride and they're easy to watch [TS]

  their you know like 11 minute episodes [TS]

  and so few by mana and itunes you get [TS]

  you know two episodes per dollar [TS]

  whatever three dollars or however much [TS]

  it is and so yes Steven universe super [TS]

  super Levitt my computer's named garnet [TS]

  after one of the characters and it's [TS]

  it's just it's it's wonderful it's [TS]

  beautiful i have not watched much anime [TS]

  but from what i gather about the enemy [TS]

  scene and my friends who are also to [TS]

  Steven universe and anime the fact that [TS]

  the characters grow in the way that they [TS]

  do after a very light season one in two [TS]

  seasons two and three where we are now [TS]

  things have gotten very heavy and play [TS]

  on expectations that Phoenix established [TS]

  in the first season that blows my mind [TS]

  in a way that I've not seen before and I [TS]

  gather that's the way that a lot of [TS]

  anime works you can tell that Rebecca [TS]

  sugar and her crew are [TS]

  super super into anime and another point [TS]

  about the songs you mentioned a lien [TS]

  they're not every episode [TS]

  it doesn't feel like a stick to me that [TS]

  facing and again not to say that crazy [TS]

  ex-girlfriend is but I would not call [TS]

  Steven universe of musical right now [TS]

  cartoon show where people happen to sing [TS]

  whenever they feel like it which is a [TS]

  really nice change of pace where you [TS]

  don't always expect a song but when it [TS]

  comes you don't feel like I feel a song [TS]

  coming on you feel like it's warranted [TS]

  and that whatever they have to say is [TS]

  better said song i love it i love this [TS]

  episode of the uncomfortable is brought [TS]

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  dan you got anything that you want to [TS]

  throw out there [TS]

  well I think this was a year that [TS]

  started for me with a couple other [TS]

  sitcoms that I act [TS]

  really got to enjoy which were mostly [TS]

  cancelled which was kind of a bummer but [TS]

  on Fox i was watching a grandfather and [TS]

  the grinder here actually ended up being [TS]

  a pair of pretty good sitcom at the [TS]

  grinder [TS]

  I feel like the fundamental problem of [TS]

  the grinder was that it was a great [TS]

  premise it had some great cast [TS]

  there was no way in hell it was going to [TS]

  be extensible passed a first season and [TS]

  they had some trouble getting the rest [TS]

  of the cast into that but some of the [TS]

  premises of that show which is [TS]

  essentially the idea being Rob Lowe is a [TS]

  an actor who has played a super-famous [TS]

  like lawyer on a lawyer TV show comes [TS]

  back to his hometown in idaho where his [TS]

  brother played by fred savage and let's [TS]

  just applaud that casting there for a [TS]

  moment is a real lawyer and decides I've [TS]

  basically been a super famous TV lawyer [TS]

  for several years [TS]

  I can totally be a real lawyer and some [TS]

  of the most brilliant parts that were [TS]

  interspersing clips from the show that [TS]

  he's on which is actually which is also [TS]

  called the grinder and dealing with sort [TS]

  of like just bizarre over-the-top bits [TS]

  of this you know like that are kind of [TS]

  all tropes and references to all these [TS]

  legal like ridiculously old dramas and [TS]

  they developed a very strong supporting [TS]

  cast there were some really good gags [TS]

  going on throughout the season i [TS]

  actually won't spoil the last the last [TS]

  episode of it but i think it does a [TS]

  great job of sort of bringing the whole [TS]

  thing all the way around and and there's [TS]

  a particularly brilliant arc in the [TS]

  middle of the season or so with Timothy [TS]

  Olyphant who comes on and basically [TS]

  plays the guy they have cast to replace [TS]

  him like his long-lost brother on the [TS]

  new version of the show they're [TS]

  rebooting and he has some serious [TS]

  community chops in there any plays [TS]

  timothy oliver yes he plays himself [TS]

  playing yes yes as the you as the person [TS]

  cast to replace Rob Lowe's character it [TS]

  is incredibly meta the only things that [TS]

  really bugged me about it were that I [TS]

  felt so bad for the fred savage [TS]

  character it was like we all [TS]

  so he's saying and everybody else kinda [TS]

  buys into the you know Rob Lowe's [TS]

  reality distortion field and you're all [TS]

  just you spend a lot of time going like [TS]

  what why aren't you paying more [TS]

  attention to the same single guy but [TS]

  some very strong supporting work from a [TS]

  lot of the characteristic the kids in [TS]

  Fred savages the the actors who played [TS]

  his kids are pretty great and it's [TS]

  definitely kind of addictive in terms of [TS]

  you'll find yourself saying something [TS]

  like Rob Lowe always constantly has [TS]

  these catch phrases that make no sense [TS]

  that people say like well you know oh we [TS]

  can't we can't see this guy and he'll [TS]

  just be like but what if we could [TS]

  anything feel like that doesn't mean [TS]

  anything you don't it'll just keep [TS]

  rolling with it it's it's entertaining [TS]

  grandfathered i really liked as well [TS]

  which was John Stamos who plays sort of [TS]

  you know he's turning 50 and he's a [TS]

  restaurant her in LA and he's like [TS]

  really you know black bachelor he's got [TS]

  a life together and then discovers that [TS]

  this you know woman that he had a [TS]

  relationship with when he was much [TS]

  younger I had a kid who is now growing [TS]

  up and is now has a kid of his own so he [TS]

  was in fact a grandfather and it ended [TS]

  up being a really sweet heartfelt show [TS]

  that was able to straddle that line of [TS]

  like it just delivered all sort of like [TS]

  you know really solid sitcom premise [TS]

  that wasn't over Warren was was funny [TS]

  and managed to be touching and sweet at [TS]

  the same time and some great fantastic [TS]

  performances there especially from paget [TS]

  Brewster and Ravi Patel and a lot of [TS]

  other great sort of supporting [TS]

  characters there and and you know John [TS]

  Stamos see again once again great [TS]

  casting you find a role that John Stamos [TS]

  was basically born to play which is the [TS]

  basic totally self-absorbed but also [TS]

  clearly like trying to deny that he is [TS]

  turning 50 so yeah I think both of those [TS]

  were were great if i had had the if I [TS]

  had been called up by the Fox president [TS]

  asked which one to save I probably would [TS]

  have picked grandfathered if only [TS]

  because i feel like there was more [TS]

  potential for growth in there but you [TS]

  know [TS]

  at one season each I feel like there was [TS]

  a is a pretty solid show that you could [TS]

  go watching and enjoy and have a good [TS]

  time with yeah i mean i'm i'm certainly [TS]

  going to get the grinder on DVD just [TS]

  because it was so enjoyable but exactly [TS]

  i don't i don't see where it is in [TS]

  season 3 season 4 but as a single season [TS]

  it's gonna be one of those like classic [TS]

  one season shows I fendi I'm if nothing [TS]

  else worth it for the episodes also [TS]

  where Jason Alexander plays the [TS]

  basically the executive producer of the [TS]

  show within a show who tries to lure Rob [TS]

  Lowe back and there's a fantastic scene [TS]

  where they're saying well you know all [TS]

  the network it'll network loved in the [TS]

  ratings you know all this stuff but none [TS]

  of that's really important we both know [TS]

  what really matters a Rob Lowe nods [TS]

  knowingly and says what the fans are [TS]

  saying on Twitter so if you have the [TS]

  yeah the wish fulfillment aspect of all [TS]

  people paying attention to what the rest [TS]

  of us silly people think of these shows [TS]

  it does a nice job of sort of satirizing [TS]

  a lot of that Erica do you have anything [TS]

  or you just here to talk about swords & [TS]

  Dragons well you know I thought I was [TS]

  just here to talk about swords & Dragons [TS]

  but then I realized that there were a [TS]

  couple things that I had watched they [TS]

  just ended longer ago long enough ago [TS]

  that my brain had forgotten about them i [TS]

  watch the last season of The Good Wife [TS]

  which I know Scott watches but he's not [TS]

  here to talk about is naughty again it's [TS]

  got but I I enjoyed most of the season [TS]

  I think this is a show i started [TS]

  watching with season five and never felt [TS]

  the need to go back and watch anything [TS]

  earlier so I've really been enjoying it [TS]

  since season five and there has been a [TS]

  subplot that has popped up for the last [TS]

  couple seasons with the NSA tapping [TS]

  Alicia's the main characters phone and [TS]

  listening in on her life and basically [TS]

  treating it like a soap opera right [TS]

  which is very meta because you know [TS]

  that's that's what we the audience are [TS]

  doing training like soap opera and just [TS]

  kind of watching and listening in and [TS]

  and that was fun that that popped up [TS]

  again and I except for the episode that [TS]

  took place in canada was very fun [TS]

  yeah they did please please do not have [TS]

  American actors try to do canadian [TS]

  accents just don't [TS]

  I feel very strongly about this now that [TS]

  I live here yeah it's just all kinds of [TS]

  wrong the last the very last episode I [TS]

  don't really know how most people felt [TS]

  about it because I didn't take to [TS]

  Twitter and look around and find out [TS]

  I myself was not particularly a fan I [TS]

  think maybe it worked better if you've [TS]

  been watching the show from the very [TS]

  beginning because the last seen sort of [TS]

  mirrors of their very first scene and I [TS]

  read about it afterwards and it makes [TS]

  sense and i think i can understand it [TS]

  but it was one of those endings that [TS]

  wasn't much of an ending and we left [TS]

  unless things very open-ended things you [TS]

  know there's there's a great big love [TS]

  story kind of at the center of the last [TS]

  couple of seasons they years ago killed [TS]

  off the main love interest which was [TS]

  apparently a big deal that was actually [TS]

  what got me to start watching the show [TS]

  like that's a bold move i wanna i wanna [TS]

  see what what the rest of this show is [TS]

  like and I completely fell for the guy [TS]

  that she also felt for later on and [TS]

  there's no official resolution to what [TS]

  happens with him and I I like a [TS]

  beginning a middle and the end and gosh [TS]

  darn it [TS]

  and there was no no real end I don't [TS]

  want open-endedness at the ends of my my [TS]

  series when that happens so I was a [TS]

  little bit sad said with that so in my [TS]

  headcanon that last episode never [TS]

  happened to know worked out a very very [TS]

  different way in my mind and the other [TS]

  show that I watched i'm not actually [TS]

  even sure that I am completely caught up [TS]

  on it but watched most of season 2 of [TS]

  stitches which is a show on freeform [TS]

  which I gather is what ABC family turned [TS]

  into yes and it's it is about what you [TS]

  would expect from a science-fiction show [TS]

  on ABC Family now free form it has it [TS]

  has the budget that you would expect for [TS]

  a show like that they are clearly not [TS]

  hiring like the most first-rate writers [TS]

  in the world they're they're people who [TS]

  i think you know some of them may have a [TS]

  future but they need to work on making [TS]

  their characters believable and in many [TS]

  cases likable even for the main [TS]

  characters but even so it has charmed me [TS]

  enough to keep watching it is a [TS]

  ridiculous premise where the the main [TS]

  character who is a skinny blonde white [TS]

  girl has to get in to this like tight [TS]

  black leather looking cat suit thing and [TS]

  it does herself in a pool of water [TS]

  in order to dip into people's dead [TS]

  people's memories to solve crimes but of [TS]

  course it's not just to solve crimes [TS]

  there's this mysterious backstory with a [TS]

  government agency that's all shadow and [TS]

  there's stuff going on with her father [TS]

  who's alive or maybe not [TS]

  and people keep dying and it's it is it [TS]

  is completely ridiculous i'm not gonna [TS]

  strongly recommend that people go and [TS]

  check it out but if you're looking for [TS]

  something that's just kind of like mine [TS]

  candy and easy to watch and if you [TS]

  really want to see a show sort of pick [TS]

  itself up off the ground and improve a [TS]

  yeah start at the first season and then [TS]

  catching the second think it's so much [TS]

  better [TS]

  yeah so stitchers it's it's ridiculous [TS]

  but it's ridiculous in in a fun way for [TS]

  me anyway she has to put on the leather [TS]

  catsuit to solve crimes [TS]

  so you know they they upgraded their [TS]

  first season 2 it was it for her [TS]

  nice nice yeah the freeform kicked into [TS]

  the zipper budget tonight oxys and of [TS]

  course she keeps it like way too low and [TS]

  like i'll come on show your ridiculous [TS]

  she does thats to get the memories in [TS]

  there [TS]

  let's go sure that I'm sure that's a [TS]

  shimmery through your skin [TS]

  allene what what other shows you want to [TS]

  mention before we move along and ok so [TS]

  the last season of Downton Abbey yeah [TS]

  I've been watching the 100 it's a show [TS]

  that I like and hate at the same time [TS]

  and but what I really like about it is [TS]

  that a for the most part the female [TS]

  characters the women in the show have [TS]

  agency and are calling the shots which [TS]

  is unusual for kind of a dystopian [TS]

  sci-fi type show and I don't know I know [TS]

  John's been watching it too i don't know [TS]

  if he has things to say hi I think it's [TS]

  a great interesting show because a [TS]

  setting aside the end-of-the-world stuff [TS]

  that I always loved it's kind of why I [TS]

  don't know if I believe you would [TS]

  categorize that way but I think about [TS]

  the dealership even though the actors [TS]

  all look like they're in their twenties [TS]

  they're supposed to be like under-18 [TS]

  that's why they were in the the jail or [TS]

  whatever in the beginning of you know [TS]

  they're all supposed to be teenagers and [TS]

  the show loves to sideline the adults [TS]

  like in theory like that the premises [TS]

  you know they separate the teams from [TS]

  the adults and it's like okay what teams [TS]

  are on [TS]

  it's like lord of the flies but then the [TS]

  you-know-what all spoiler alert i think [TS]

  it then the teens and adults are [TS]

  together in the later part of the show [TS]

  but the teens are still kind of in [TS]

  charge so it's like totally yaa where [TS]

  you imagine the grown-ups is there not a [TS]

  bunch of doofuses like their their [TS]

  characters and they're smart and they're [TS]

  competent everything to but to a degree [TS]

  that is a little bit unrealistic unless [TS]

  you consider the whole thing to be yaa [TS]

  the kids are running the show and then [TS]

  the other aspects likely inside is the [TS]

  the women in the show it's it's [TS]

  basically just parody or maybe just [TS]

  barely parody but it comes off in the in [TS]

  the environment that this is being [TS]

  released into as startling in how you [TS]

  know how can the main characters of a [TS]

  show be women is not impossible like [TS]

  shouldn't the main character every [TS]

  single show be men and this show for all [TS]

  its you know sort of silly you know why [TS]

  a high school atmosphere in a grim [TS]

  situation shows that you can actually [TS]

  have one show on television where women [TS]

  of the main characters in the world was [TS]

  an end and so I find that not all over [TS]

  the world actually did end but that was [TS]

  prior to the show be part of the beating [TS]

  the show it's not post world ending a [TS]

  yeah and there's also a positive [TS]

  portrayal of LGBTQ relationships and [TS]

  that too [TS]

  I'm which is another thing I appreciate [TS]

  about but also of course the infamous [TS]

  killing of a of a character that led to [TS]

  a a whole feeling of outrage in the same [TS]

  community and I'll i think frank [TS]

  discussion on the internet by the [TS]

  creators and TV critics and I think a [TS]

  lot of people learned a lot and I think [TS]

  maybe a lot of writers in the TV [TS]

  business maybe realized that there's a [TS]

  cliché that they didn't realize was a [TS]

  cliché because they weren't paying [TS]

  attention to it so there's a lot of [TS]

  conversation about probably not what the [TS]

  producers the 100 wanted to talk about [TS]

  which was how they wrote out a character [TS]

  who was because the actor was going to [TS]

  it be a regular on a different show but [TS]

  that was definitely a big part of the [TS]

  story of the hundred this year and [TS]

  that's why diverse writing rooms matter [TS]

  yep this edition of the uncomfortable is [TS]

  brought to you by like splash that's [TS]

  like splash one word it's your one-stop [TS]

  app for all of your interest movies [TS]

  restaurants songs books podcast apps and [TS]

  more and they all lived together in one [TS]

  beautiful app [TS]

  you may feel like you've got too many [TS]

  apps on your phone too much to deal with [TS]

  if you like movies or restaurants or [TS]

  books or songs you end up with a nap for [TS]

  each one may be more than one end up [TS]

  with what a couple dozen apps to explore [TS]

  like supply solve this problem by [TS]

  linking you to all your favorite apps [TS]

  and services directly rather than having [TS]

  to open the different apps and it gets [TS]

  better with a few taps you can explore [TS]

  collections of favorite movies songs [TS]

  books apps created by your friends or [TS]

  other users who share your interests and [TS]

  here's another feature that they offer [TS]

  you if you forgot about a TV show [TS]

  let's say like one of the ones that [TS]

  we've just recommended here or maybe a [TS]

  restaurant something like that happens [TS]

  all the time you can bookmark movie [TS]

  songs books apps TV shows pretty much [TS]

  anything you fancy using the app it's [TS]

  all organized into categories and [TS]

  connected your favorite apps and [TS]

  services [TS]

  it's a great sort of like super [TS]

  bookmarking feature so check it out like [TS]

  splashes on the App Store you can click [TS]

  the link in the show notes or go to bit [TS]

  ly thats bitd ly / get like splash vit d [TS]

  ly / GT li ke SPL a sh like splash one [TS]

  after all your interests avoid app [TS]

  clutter get like splash thanks to like [TS]

  spice for sponsoring the incomparable [TS]

  the other big one I want to mention as I [TS]

  zombie-like i watch The Walking Dead and [TS]

  you know things that everybody else [TS]

  watches too but I love iZombie I learned [TS]

  about the premise of the show and was [TS]

  like this is totally not for me it's [TS]

  like just it's just not for me and then [TS]

  when it came to at Netflix and my friend [TS]

  Steve Lucas was like no you really need [TS]

  to watch the show and I did and I am [TS]

  hooked [TS]

  I like it it's you know zombies and who [TS]

  remain a human unless they are starved [TS]

  for too long and there becomes like this [TS]

  the this whole like brain [TS]

  I don't know Brandon rotten market uh [TS]

  yes [TS]

  so it's it's I don't know it's it's [TS]

  clever in quirky kind of the way that [TS]

  brain Fuller's shows can be that's not [TS]

  by going fuller and it's and I don't [TS]

  know I just really really enjoyed I [TS]

  think it's fun and it's also smart so I [TS]

  appreciate that i'm so glad to hear that [TS]

  it stays good i have only seen the first [TS]

  season so far and I [TS]

  just absolutely adored it so I just [TS]

  haven't been able to find the next the [TS]

  rest of it candidates are sometimes the [TS]

  second season is is also really quite [TS]

  good and it windy i award this year for [TS]

  shows which you can't really like [TS]

  there's a lot of shows a kind of is [TS]

  dressed as a procedural right because [TS]

  it's kind of dresses like a procedural [TS]

  cop drama [TS]

  except there's a zombie helping them [TS]

  solve crimes and that's all well and [TS]

  good but as the show goes along and you [TS]

  realize while they're laying down all [TS]

  these different weird pieces and as you [TS]

  realize the procedural stuff start [TS]

  shifting to the back and the sort of [TS]

  ongoing plot shifts to the front and i [TS]

  found just get one my award for I have [TS]

  no idea where this is going like there [TS]

  are a lot of shows that are sort of [TS]

  telegraphed I feel like it's like okay [TS]

  yeah these people are going to these [TS]

  people and they show no compunction [TS]

  about being like all what is this like [TS]

  what is crazy terrible things that we [TS]

  can do this people let's throw these [TS]

  people together and see what happens [TS]

  you're like oh my god I can't believe [TS]

  this is going on right now what is [TS]

  happening and i think it's it's [TS]

  fantastic a great great cast [TS]

  I will say one of my favorite bits from [TS]

  this season involves a character who [TS]

  returns out is very very angry at george [TS]

  RR martin for not finishing his master [TS]

  and one of the best deliveries wife from [TS]

  a character who you otherwise would not [TS]

  expect that to come from and also I [TS]

  think a great job with one of my [TS]

  favorite characters in that show who is [TS]

  a person that could have come off as [TS]

  very two-dimensional is major who is the [TS]

  main characters ex-fiance and he feel [TS]

  like he could have just gotten relegated [TS]

  to this kind of dull like oh he's the [TS]

  love interest role but by the end of the [TS]

  first season have to get some really [TS]

  really interesting to like directions [TS]

  with his character and that actor is [TS]

  fantastic he's just delivery is so good [TS]

  he's so charming and like mild-mannered [TS]

  like everybody in that show is is great [TS]

  you know obviously a rose mciver replace [TS]

  the lead to she's fantastic and it's [TS]

  just got a great cast Rob Thomas who do [TS]

  who created is the same guy created [TS]

  Veronica Mars and that really shows if [TS]

  you watch batteries [TS]

  but it's good i highly highly second [TS]

  that and also rob thomas from matchbox [TS]

  Tony meeting up here and i think another [TS]

  season you made it so well it's really [TS]

  so good so funny [TS]

  yeah if you're not watching that when I [TS]

  don't even know why you're here go do [TS]

  you hang up and watch that's ok bye guys [TS]

  yeah John anything you want to mention [TS]

  the only ones i had on my list i think [TS]

  is a the walking dead which i still [TS]

  enjoy i know a lot of people are tired [TS]

  of it I'm not tired of it [TS]

  they still I'm still interested the [TS]

  characters that I come to know and love [TS]

  I'm still interested in what happens to [TS]

  them and they're still be able to [TS]

  introduce new characters that like was [TS]

  leftovers that already do that in the [TS]

  last podcast about TV [TS]

  I think we want to talk about I finally [TS]

  have gone through the first season I [TS]

  haven't watched the second season yet [TS]

  but i thought i thought that was a very [TS]

  quietly brilliant show actually yeah the [TS]

  second season i really liked I liked it [TS]

  more than the first season and I [TS]

  actually like the first season as well [TS]

  so I feel like that show is I don't know [TS]

  where we can go from here i don't think [TS]

  i can imagine season 3 being better but [TS]

  I'm really glad that I saw the first two [TS]

  seasons of that I'm really glad it [TS]

  wasn't cancelled and there's only one [TS]

  more season [TS]

  yeah yeah is there wasn't even a third [TS]

  season the last season alright well i [TS]

  guess they can do something spectacular [TS]

  for the Big Finish or they can just blow [TS]

  it will see and then the other one is [TS]

  the Americans which i think is sort of [TS]

  at the ragged edges of its premise at [TS]

  this point I'm i don't know i get the [TS]

  premises silly begin with a lot of [TS]

  things that show are silly if you think [TS]

  about them for 12 seconds but now [TS]

  they're really running out of runway for [TS]

  the show but it's been pretty good all [TS]

  the way through a lot i don't quite [TS]

  understand why people rave about it as [TS]

  much as they do I think it's good i [TS]

  don't have any bad things to say about [TS]

  it but I'm not bowled over like I was by [TS]

  you know like that the Marquis programs [TS]

  people throw this up there like oh it's [TS]

  as good as you know breaking bad or the [TS]

  wire or The Sopranos and it's not on [TS]

  that tier for me but it's still a really [TS]

  good show and it's an interesting [TS]

  premise and i like most of the actors [TS]

  and and they've announced it's going to [TS]

  be two more seasons and then it's done [TS]

  yeah so it has a finite ending insight [TS]

  actually like it only has one season of [TS]

  plot left two more seasons [TS]

  maybe I think they're shorter seasons [TS]

  that I think it's like the breaking bad [TS]

  trend that's i'm watching the first [TS]

  season of that right now and it is great [TS]

  i'm enjoying a lot so I'm just you know [TS]

  time-shifted pillow from 2011 [TS]

  ok Brian anything that you want to throw [TS]

  out there we've talked a lot about the [TS]

  expanse on the TV feet of the [TS]

  incomparable but it learned it's lessons [TS]

  from game of thrones before Game of [TS]

  Thrones itself learned those same [TS]

  lessons the season so good for that i'd [TS]

  like to throw a documentary now which is [TS]

  on ifc Bill Hader and Fred Armisen make [TS]

  silly documentary parodies they're [TS]

  really detailed they're really suddenly [TS]

  funny there things from Grey Gardens to [TS]

  the thin blue line to rock documentaries [TS]

  i had a ton of fun going through that [TS]

  this year that's all on netflix now it [TS]

  is all the netflix yes don't make the [TS]

  mistake I made and I think that there's [TS]

  only six episodes when there's a second [TS]

  part of the blue jean committee episode [TS]

  I'd like to throw out a special mention [TS]

  to jeopardy [TS]

  I'm very excited to see buzzy cohen and [TS]

  Hunter aperture uh face off in next [TS]

  year's tournament champions these past [TS]

  months in 17 and no it's clear it's [TS]

  really Glenn Glenn wearing up to Ryan [TS]

  asked i don't like to throw a bone to [TS]

  whoever runs the joy of painting youtube [TS]

  account on thanks for helping me sleep [TS]

  that's technically team right sure great [TS]

  dropped in a helicopter e 700 club girl [TS]

  happy little school and playing with his [TS]

  nuts like the guy who plays the test [TS]

  pattern he's great thanks for being [TS]

  there to a David what do you have [TS]

  I will if this were drafted be in pretty [TS]

  good shape i mean i've crossed a couple [TS]

  of things off like documentary now and [TS]

  the expanse and one that I know is on [TS]

  your list but I've got Angie Tribeca [TS]

  which on TBS [TS]

  it's just Rock stupid but it plays rock [TS]

  stupid really well if if you like [TS]

  airplane if you like police squad and [TS]

  especially if you like police squad more [TS]

  than you like The Naked Gun this is the [TS]

  show you've been waiting for it manages [TS]

  to hit that that tone pretty perfectly [TS]

  then let's see the second season of [TS]

  Fargo which I thought was as good [TS]

  as the first maybe and i really like the [TS]

  first full frontal [TS]

  also on TBS has become a weekly thing [TS]

  for me along with last week tonight [TS]

  veep which people were worried about [TS]

  because Armando Iannucci was leaving the [TS]

  show how can you do it without Armando [TS]

  Iannucci but not only did they maintain [TS]

  it they sort of went beyond they've [TS]

  ended in a really interesting place [TS]

  I don't want to spoil anything but it's [TS]

  not where you think it's going which is [TS]

  kinda cool [TS]

  the Carmichael show the second season [TS]

  that was very entertaining [TS]

  it's a throwback to the the Norman Lear [TS]

  style of issue-oriented comedy but i [TS]

  really like that of life in pieces said [TS]

  come on CBS that is a pleasant way to [TS]

  pass the time it takes it kind of does [TS]

  the modern family format of an extended [TS]

  family but instead of having a you know [TS]

  trying to fit everybody in to every [TS]

  story they do short stories in each half [TS]

  hour so it's it's almost like it's [TS]

  designed to be put on youtube in little [TS]

  viral bites which is kind of interesting [TS]

  to see how they're constructing that and [TS]

  sometimes they do tie them all together [TS]

  nicely but documentary now I'll just [TS]

  cross it off [TS]

  Louie CK is Horace and Pete which is not [TS]

  quite a comedy and it's not quite a [TS]

  drama and it's not quite TV because it's [TS]

  kinda like live theater with so it's [TS]

  again a very much a throwback it is very [TS]

  funny at times it is harrowing at times [TS]

  so it's it's it's not a ride for the [TS]

  easily disturbed but man it's good it [TS]

  could have used a sharper hand and [TS]

  heading down the script but you know [TS]

  i'll give it a pass because you don't [TS]

  see that on TV alot and then I'll finish [TS]

  off with two shows on the Sundance [TS]

  Channel of all things one that's a [TS]

  co-production with australia and new [TS]

  zealand called clever man which is a [TS]

  science fictiony retelling of Aboriginal [TS]

  ecology in the present day in a sort of [TS]

  a superhero context it's really [TS]

  fascinating the first episodes little [TS]

  confusing stick with it there are only [TS]

  six so far I don't know if you're going [TS]

  to do more but it's it's really [TS]

  different i really liked it and a show [TS]

  called HAP and Leonard which is based on [TS]

  a series of books by Joe are lansdale [TS]

  set down in the deep south with a crime [TS]

  if you miss justified this could scratch [TS]

  that itch and when I guess the the last [TS]

  thing that's been taking up my time in [TS]

  the last few weeks the match game I hate [TS]

  to admit it they got it right even even [TS]

  with alec baldwin they got it right it [TS]

  feels like the 1970s match game and and [TS]

  it's on at 10pm for good reason it is it [TS]

  is at least as smart as the original so [TS]

  good for that which was on it 38 3pm so [TS]

  exactly go figure after school with [TS]

  watch it but yeah it it's the first [TS]

  they've tried to revive it multiple [TS]

  times it's the first one that catches [TS]

  the tone and the ease and the width of [TS]

  the original right Dan [TS]

  what else do you have alright well I've [TS]

  got a bit of a list you so I'll just run [TS]

  through these are the USA show suits [TS]

  which is about answer its six-season [TS]

  they took a really sharp left turn and [TS]

  finally sort of dropped the hammer on [TS]

  the premise which was interesting [TS]

  I'm curious to see how they deal with [TS]

  that since it will change the format of [TS]

  the show pretty largely we'll see if [TS]

  they stick with it but I've enjoyed that [TS]

  show quite a bit it's got a really good [TS]

  cast [TS]

  I've got a British trial British cop [TS]

  trifecta third season i just watched [TS]

  thirties of line of duty which is a [TS]

  really intense sort of internal affairs [TS]

  style british show there are three [TS]

  seasons each of them sort of focuses on [TS]

  slightly different cases of [TS]

  investigating you know an incident and [TS]

  then there's a larger theme running [TS]

  through it about sort of corrupt cops it [TS]

  is it is one of those magnetic [TS]

  edge-of-your-seat style shows and the [TS]

  only six episodes of season two so it's [TS]

  pretty easy to sort of plays through [TS]

  endeavour just finished third season of [TS]

  at a young inspector morse really well [TS]

  done period oxford drama in the sixties [TS]

  just really a lot of fun and the there [TS]

  those are longer episodes there's only [TS]

  like four in a season but they're an [TS]

  hour and a half so they're more like [TS]

  watching little mini movies but they're [TS]

  they're great if you like British [TS]

  detective drama Ripper Street i finally [TS]

  managed to you find the fourth season [TS]

  which is really also good i've enjoyed [TS]

  that show a lot going through Matthew [TS]

  McFadden and Jerome Flynn from Game of [TS]

  Thrones who plays Braun plays the [TS]

  sergeant in this one which is a [TS]

  victorian-era police procedural the [TS]

  third season of that which we were last [TS]

  year or two years ago was really good [TS]

  and had sort of a really interesting [TS]

  overarching plot and they sort of [TS]

  continued the fallout from that in this [TS]

  most recent season I shows that i [TS]

  haven't seen all of the time i am [TS]

  watching a silicon valley I've really [TS]

  enjoyed what I've seen a third season I [TS]

  just haven't had time to finish it yet [TS]

  but the addition especially of Stephen [TS]

  Chbosky in early on in the season was [TS]

  great and that show is when it when it's [TS]

  good man is it good if they have some [TS]

  really sharp satire and when it's you [TS]

  know Mike Judge it's really mike judge [TS]

  and i just finished the first season [TS]

  right now is to show I was watching her [TS]

  before got on here was the first season [TS]

  of hold and catch fire [TS]

  I which I just finished which is a [TS]

  really interesting show that maybe tries [TS]

  to be mad Men a little too hard but some [TS]

  of it is kind of fun to watch a show [TS]

  where it's like oh wait this is all [TS]

  computer history I know about all this [TS]

  stuff and I do enjoy a pace even if he [TS]

  is a little bit over the top on the show [TS]

  I know Jason really likes you're the [TS]

  worst and he got me [TS]

  yeah the second season of that show is [TS]

  fan-tastic areas and probably I feel [TS]

  like has one of the better depictions of [TS]

  dealing with like depression of of [TS]

  anything certainly that I've seen [TS]

  and he's just yeah it's really good [TS]

  that's a really good show and it is it [TS]

  is seriously underrated and the just the [TS]

  the leads ice personally my favorite is [TS]

  uh oh now I'm gonna blank [TS]

  what's the name of his room 808 girl [TS]

  Edgar yes Edgar and and the the best [TS]

  friend of the main character Lindsay yes [TS]

  the supporting characters that show [TS]

  yeah you know what can you say about [TS]

  sure where the supporting characters are [TS]

  as good as they really are two main [TS]

  characters Catherine Donahue is [TS]

  spectacularly good as Lindsay [TS]

  spectacularly good [TS]

  yes she's really good even enjoy these [TS]

  stupid like the stupid other side [TS]

  characters like the married couple and [TS]

  it's just it's so well written and so [TS]

  good i just i watched the heck out of [TS]

  that it's a great show it's hilarious [TS]

  this whole area is fine to show it's [TS]

  really weird because I was a show they [TS]

  got recommended by multiple angles [TS]

  including you Jason and then my parents [TS]

  liked it was like I don't really want to [TS]

  thank you are my parents [TS]

  no but and then the last couple things I [TS]

  had Star Wars rebels and i'm just going [TS]

  to plug it because I got you for a show [TS]

  that's 11 season in this season of [TS]

  supernatural was surprisingly good i was [TS]

  really a getting the point of being like [TS]

  and I don't know how much they can keep [TS]

  doing this they get a really good season [TS]

  this year and part of it was going back [TS]

  to stuff that they sort of left up in [TS]

  the air like like five or six years ago [TS]

  yeah and then do you want to hug you now [TS]

  I'm okay it was a good show [TS]

  I have to say I i was surprised i I just [TS]

  sort of been sleepwalking through a lot [TS]

  of the recent seasons because I felt [TS]

  like man I am in this deep but you know [TS]

  what they do the full credit for them [TS]

  finding a way to make it sort of fresh [TS]

  and and still having reasons for me to [TS]

  invest 11 seasons in and guess what gap [TS]

  its wealth so I kept them still going [TS]

  yeah [TS]

  Stockholm Syndrome going I got no [TS]

  problems I can handle your mockery what [TS]

  mockery now we're being and I'm [TS]

  confident in my I'm comfortable where I [TS]

  am right now we've only been mocking [TS]

  you're watching supernatural for like [TS]

  five years [TS]

  comments I mean if you made it through [TS]

  the first season we can talk we can oh [TS]

  yeah i know i resigned to it never being [TS]

  something ever gets discussed on the [TS]

  show [TS]

  well we discussed now so there's no I [TS]

  monologue about it this is different [TS]

  I just can't get again i can't get past [TS]

  season 1i just have tried i can't get [TS]

  past jared padalecki guys in one is [TS]

  season one is rough and yeah after [TS]

  seasons like two through five you do [TS]

  watch those those are great i would stop [TS]

  honestly there i would not if we're I [TS]

  starting today I would not follow myself [TS]

  all the way down this dark path but [TS]

  season 5 has one of the best that like [TS]

  arc basically through season five is one [TS]

  of the best constructed i'll put that up [TS]

  against almost anything it's just it's a [TS]

  really solid development of these [TS]

  characters and an overarching plot that [TS]

  is basically coherent from like first [TS]

  episode to the end of the fifth season [TS]

  and he should have just left it there [TS]

  but they kept going so well and I've and [TS]

  27 more seasons after that I hate they [TS]

  did I mean a this is a show they hit 200 [TS]

  episodes and did it as a basically as a [TS]

  high school musical about itself now [TS]

  which was crazy but really well done [TS]

  i'll mention a couple to a master of [TS]

  none [TS]

  Aziz Ansari's comedy on netflix is [TS]

  really graves on my list you should you [TS]

  should watch it it's really great [TS]

  and since Dan mentioned you're the worst [TS]

  i will then just mentioned catastrophe [TS]

  on amazon a very funny show about an [TS]

  American man who meets a woman when he's [TS]

  in London and they sleep together and [TS]

  she gets pregnant and he decides he's [TS]

  gonna stay and be a parent and it is [TS]

  very funny and i'll throw out there [TS]

  Mozart in the jungle to on amazon which [TS]

  yeah is a very good show about a [TS]

  classical music and the the simple [TS]

  Symphony musicians in New York and has a [TS]

  it and there's almost no way I can [TS]

  describe it won't make it sound boring [TS]

  it is very funny it is off-kilter it is [TS]

  not snooty at all [TS]

  there is like you learn in the first [TS]

  episode which guy in the orchestra is [TS]

  the one you go to [TS]

  I drugs it's that kind of show and it's [TS]

  got a fun performance by Malcolm [TS]

  McDowell is the deposed former conductor [TS]

  of the orchestra and a spectacularly [TS]

  good form a performance by guile garcía [TS]

  Bernal as the maestro of the orchestra [TS]

  who is just I loved every minute he's [TS]

  on-screen he's it's such a great is our [TS]

  performances [TS]

  he's very creative and does weird things [TS]

  and everybody's like well it's the [TS]

  maestro he just does what he does and [TS]

  it's yeah it's a it's a legitimately [TS]

  hilarious show so people should check [TS]

  out 1 i've talked about a lot with Tim [TS]

  Goodman over on the talk machine and it [TS]

  really you know for people who love [TS]

  slings and arrows which is one of my [TS]

  favorite shows well this is the same [TS]

  kind of the it sits behind the scenes of [TS]

  creative people being created yeah and [TS]

  this the struggle with how have they [TS]

  exist in the world and still be creative [TS]

  and you know it's it's it's not the same [TS]

  sense of humor it's not it's not slings [TS]

  and arrows to point out but if you like [TS]

  the one you will probably like this too [TS]

  thus ends the not a draft listing of [TS]

  shows that you should probably watch if [TS]

  you are looking for shows to watch [TS]

  because we liked although shows and we [TS]

  mentioned them [TS]

  it's very positive of us were not [TS]

  currently out shows that like we don't [TS]

  like where it's just all the good stuff [TS]

  i think we watches that we don't like [TS]

  like about we usually got the day off [TS]

  right [TS]

  there's too many good shows that used to [TS]

  be you'd watch mediocre shows because [TS]

  you're we ran out of good shows and [TS]

  there is you cannot run out of good [TS]

  shows now [TS]

  okay we're gonna fire up the spoiler [TS]

  horn and talk about season 6 or game of [TS]

  thrones now [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  alright season six game of thrones so [TS]

  last season of Game of Thrones kind of a [TS]

  downer kind of down lots of bad stuff [TS]

  happened to his dark things were bad on [TS]

  this show a downer little bit of a [TS]

  bummer with all the terribleness that [TS]

  happened in it but this season was [TS]

  different for Game of Thrones I thought [TS]

  I spent the entire season talking about [TS]

  every single episode all but John [TS]

  actually of those of us who who were [TS]

  here and David doesn't count because he [TS]

  didn't watch that were on TV episodes [TS]

  about Game of Thrones with me or not [TS]

  with me in the case believe you were on [TS]

  with Brian right i was on the frame so [TS]

  mean it all connects it all [TS]

  interconnects John prefers to wait and [TS]

  ponder season 6 of Game of Thrones like [TS]

  every season and so I guess I should [TS]

  start with John and and if people want [TS]

  to hear what I had to say about Game of [TS]

  Thrones season 6 hey there's 10 episodes [TS]

  of or eight episodes of the TV podcast [TS]

  where I talk about eight episodes of it [TS]

  John what do you think of season 16 [TS]

  minutes we'll start with you I don't [TS]

  know if this season was your just frame [TS]

  it was like oh it's not as big of a [TS]

  downer is the previous season because [TS]

  bad things do happen but I think every [TS]

  time we talk about the show in the [TS]

  beginning I knew nothing about nothing [TS]

  about the book I did you know and I'm [TS]

  think I'm very early i made jokes about [TS]

  like boy winter is coming sure taking a [TS]

  long time to get here that stop being a [TS]

  joke like a season and a half ago [TS]

  it's like seriously his winter coming [TS]

  how slow do the White Walkers actually [TS]

  walk are they just loitering outside the [TS]

  wall but I think the reason this season [TS]

  was so satisfying to everybody is [TS]

  because all those story threads and all [TS]

  that stuff [TS]

  finally finally looks like we're [TS]

  actually getting payoffs for things like [TS]

  they actually allowed to Starks to meet [TS]

  each other it was like it was like a [TS]

  miracle it was like how can that is how [TS]

  can that even happen how can look [TS]

  they're hugging like it's just [TS]

  miraculous and I really the season was [TS]

  kind of more of the same chest people [TS]

  peace moving and then one big episode of [TS]

  the middle toe to punch you in the gut [TS]

  the door episode and then huge finish a [TS]

  huge finish i think those last two [TS]

  episodes combined [TS]

  and are better than most of the movies [TS]

  I've seen in the past several years both [TS]

  in terms of how satisfying it was you [TS]

  can imagine this is like the second or [TS]

  third movie in a trilogy those two [TS]

  episodes and all the other seasons [TS]

  compress down just the good part step [TS]

  couple of just fantastic finish and so [TS]

  like that's a good strategy but your TV [TS]

  season by the way we forget about all [TS]

  the little small chest piece moving and [TS]

  tiny little scenes here and there in the [TS]

  early part of the season if it all comes [TS]

  together in the end and things happen [TS]

  things move and even though those poor [TS]

  white walkers are still going even [TS]

  though ships are still selling across to [TS]

  see enough happened that we all just [TS]

  settle down I felt like after the season [TS]

  said Jason Monty and I didn't really [TS]

  have much nice to say about that the [TS]

  ultimate episode where they're fighting [TS]

  the Bolton's but I I said nice things [TS]

  you said and I think it was on the nice [TS]

  thing but I didn't even John you make a [TS]

  great point I didn't even think about [TS]

  comparing it to a movie that sounds [TS]

  really dumb but honestly when I will go [TS]

  to game of thrones I want the plot i [TS]

  want things to happen [TS]

  not much happened in that episode [TS]

  plot-wise except for like the incredible [TS]

  ending and honest I didn't even think [TS]

  about comparing it to something like the [TS]

  two towers a return of the king where so [TS]

  much of those movies are fighting that [TS]

  you just kind of get plot thrown in [TS]

  sprinkled throughout and it made a lot [TS]

  more sense [TS]

  comparing it to a movie in terms of the [TS]

  scale that we get in the budget that [TS]

  they're allowing to say thank you for [TS]

  that they held that the battle back like [TS]

  they have like a lot of times it's [TS]

  people talking and people thinking about [TS]

  things or whatever but like that's the [TS]

  seasons that tend to be unsatisfying is [TS]

  a lot of those people having [TS]

  conversations and different sort of [TS]

  political maneuvering but it doesn't [TS]

  culminating anything or maybe culminates [TS]

  into a single murder which blends into [TS]

  the background on Game of Thrones all [TS]

  the other incidental murders they go on [TS]

  this all these moving around moving [TS]

  pieces culminates in a final clash of [TS]

  the pieces that had been aligned and [TS]

  you're right like that the battle the [TS]

  bastards that the reason I think that [TS]

  worked for me so well is a this is a big [TS]

  thing that's been coming for a long time [TS]

  we need to actually have a result [TS]

  instead of just having people just do [TS]

  something go off in different directions [TS]

  again and be i thought it was an [TS]

  amazingly well done battle scene i [TS]

  thought it was as good as any sort of [TS]

  mud and blood battle scene in medieval [TS]

  you know fantasy settings that I've seen [TS]

  a movie in gear [TS]

  years and this is a TV show just [TS]

  phenomenally well done because you care [TS]

  about the characters that you can tell [TS]

  what's going on the whole time as it [TS]

  interesting shots that you didn't expect [TS]

  it's not just a bunch of cliches and yes [TS]

  there's enough silliness with the person [TS]

  who doesn't know it is exactly he runs [TS]

  and some vino different things that [TS]

  don't make a lot of sense in terms of [TS]

  how confident someone could be that [TS]

  their plan would go off as expected but [TS]

  all that you know just like and I needed [TS]

  that I after season diseases i needed to [TS]

  see a big gigantic battle between forces [TS]

  that have been going together for a long [TS]

  time to be resolved decisively in a [TS]

  single episode there was a winner there [TS]

  was a loser the big banner comes down on [TS]

  the side of the building [TS]

  yes you know i am i am the queen of of [TS]

  not meeting a big battle scene I will [TS]

  never say that that's something i need [TS]

  and i always get bored I am the first [TS]

  person to say im bored with battle [TS]

  whether it's a gunfight or a sword fight [TS]

  doesn't matter however i actually was [TS]

  pretty darn ok with that battle in with [TS]

  the battle of the bastards it i do think [TS]

  that it went on too long for my taste [TS]

  but not by nearly as much as I expected [TS]

  and i quite liked a good chunk of it [TS]

  because it it didn't do that thing that [TS]

  so many shows of this type does and Game [TS]

  of Thrones has done in the past is like [TS]

  glorify battle make it look like you [TS]

  know this is such an epic sing and look [TS]

  at these sweaty men swinging their [TS]

  swords around and slow motion and isn't [TS]

  it a beautiful wonderful thing all this [TS]

  testosterone know it made it look [TS]

  terrible and terrifying all of these [TS]

  like super fast quick cuts from from [TS]

  place to place you can't actually tell [TS]

  what's going on [TS]

  that's exactly what it would be like in [TS]

  the middle of a battle you wouldn't be [TS]

  able to tell what's going on I felt like [TS]

  it that seen more than any other battles [TS]

  on the show kind of it gave me a feeling [TS]

  for what it would be like to be in this [TS]

  situation and to be you know the [TS]

  trampled under almost right several [TS]

  hundred people trying to get away i have [TS]

  to say i had the interesting experience [TS]

  of watching this with my girlfriend who [TS]

  had during we're watching the season [TS]

  together and then she moved to india but [TS]

  halfway through the season and so it [TS]

  turns out in India they actually show it [TS]

  live on TV sponsored by like amazon [TS]

  india like not even on premium cable [TS]

  just like I'm like [TS]

  broadcast except india being a slightly [TS]

  more conservative country they cut a [TS]

  bunches of apples as showing it like a [TS]

  lot of the super gory stuff so we're [TS]

  watching it and I was just you're [TS]

  watching this episode going who i like [TS]

  it and she's like what I don't even know [TS]

  what you're seeing right now like I I [TS]

  surprised that episode was not just five [TS]

  minutes long at that point because he [TS]

  felt like it was all pretty gory but I i [TS]

  think from a larger perspective what I [TS]

  found really good about the season which [TS]

  I think we obviously have to acknowledge [TS]

  is the fact that we're basically you [TS]

  know we're beyond the the pale when it [TS]

  comes to these books because we're off [TS]

  the map right like you know those of us [TS]

  who have read the books to a certain [TS]

  extent the plot was hamstrung by needing [TS]

  to follow where the books were you know [TS]

  in so far as they could and so I think [TS]

  this is [TS]

  this is [TS]

  what a really good example for this to [TS]

  my mind was was the last season with the [TS]

  hard home episode [TS]

  mhm like that was an episode that [TS]

  basically took something that did not [TS]

  happen at least on screen in the books [TS]

  and just flushing that out and being [TS]

  able to sort of give a chance for the [TS]

  the TV show didn't do its own thing and [TS]

  then basically i think you know what we [TS]

  saw this season was in large part that [TS]

  it's sort of i promise written with [TS]

  large which was [TS]

  hey free rein you know we kind of we [TS]

  yeah we know where George is going with [TS]

  the story but we basically get to do [TS]

  what we want to do and set up a bunch of [TS]

  stuff and and I think having that [TS]

  freedom to set stuff up and as a John [TS]

  said pay it off by you know structuring [TS]

  it in such a way that things that [TS]

  happens chestpiece moving eventually [TS]

  results in something which you kind of [TS]

  need to do a TV show right leg it just [TS]

  string it out forever people do get [TS]

  bored and stop watching things unless [TS]

  you're me and watch 12 seasons of [TS]

  supernatural but other than me [TS]

  people get w don't get kind of bored if [TS]

  there's no if there is no payoff and so [TS]

  I think that is actually probably to the [TS]

  biggest credit of this this last season [TS]

  is the fact that they haven't had to [TS]

  follow a blueprint note by note feeling [TS]

  like oh the fans will be so disappointed [TS]

  if it doesn't do this and this isn't [TS]

  said they just said yeah we're gonna [TS]

  wait to tell our story we tell it like [TS]

  it's a TV show and not like it's a you [TS]

  know a translation from a novel and I [TS]

  think that work to great effect for them [TS]

  so kudos to the the showrunners for you [TS]

  know taking the the road less traveled [TS]

  by gets me paid off things from the [TS]

  previous season two like using mentioned [TS]

  payoffs like they set up enough stuff [TS]

  early in the season to pay off here but [TS]

  they were paying off things from past [TS]

  seasons like I mean felt the whole thing [TS]

  with Cersei and and the mean nuns like [TS]

  to watch that season you're like that [TS]

  mean non boy she's gonna going to do [TS]

  something terrible that mean not and [TS]

  it's like and season ends [TS]

  but what about the mean none not paid [TS]

  off you know the Infinity salesman guy [TS]

  he's really annoying and he does lots of [TS]

  stuff in the previous season and then [TS]

  the season ends you're like but but and [TS]

  this season paid off so that it's the [TS]

  advantage of coming I [TS]

  assuming the latter half of how many [TS]

  more seasons two more two more two more [TS]

  shorter shorter season yeah but the [TS]

  advantage coming towards the end is that [TS]

  you finally get to resolve these things [TS]

  and I think we will look back on the [TS]

  middle seasons as a tough period to get [TS]

  through to get to what I hope is just an [TS]

  increasing amount of really big payoffs [TS]

  I mean they've got a lot of big a lot of [TS]

  big sets of chess pieces moving around [TS]

  this board towards each other we already [TS]

  had these two big big battle on a big [TS]

  explosion at the end and I hope it's [TS]

  just more of that well when it comes to [TS]

  pay off my talk to on the TV up so we do [TS]

  about this about how dissatisfied I was [TS]

  and how upset I am with Game of Thrones [TS]

  for continually doing the let's kill off [TS]

  every single main character that was put [TS]

  into this season in the season finale I [TS]

  wish that they stopped doing that [TS]

  because it feels like a cop-out why [TS]

  would we spend all of these all this [TS]

  time with these characters only to have [TS]

  them die in a completely unceremonious [TS]

  way and it's great for shock value but [TS]

  it really doesn't feel like a good park [TS]

  for anybody involved and then know [TS]

  Jason's mentioned something on that TV [TS]

  episode about how about how they're not [TS]

  necessarily important to any of the [TS]

  character arcs but much more for the Ark [TS]

  of the kingdom and series as a whole so [TS]

  that kind of payoff feels very mixed in [TS]

  terms of these character moments at [TS]

  while also moving the plot along [TS]

  ridiculous lengths there's so many [TS]

  characters though I feel like killing [TS]

  off characters is fine with me like [TS]

  asthma as sad as I am at like archery [TS]

  the Marjorie got wiped out because i [TS]

  really like her that I felt like the [TS]

  high Sparrow I didn't need to see any [TS]

  more of him this is how he got taken out [TS]

  that's the end of his story loris you [TS]

  know he was fine but he's a minor [TS]

  character uncle Kevan Lannister you know [TS]

  that the other characters in there I [TS]

  kind of didn't care about the only one [TS]

  the only one that was a bummer i just [TS]

  love that there's a guy named Kevin I [TS]

  know it's spelled with an a it doesn't [TS]

  matter it so Kevin do you home alone [TS]

  thing every time [TS]

  so yeah Marjorie Marjorie is a bummer [TS]

  but at the same time I don't know a lot [TS]

  of characters and in the end the payoff [TS]

  here was seriously taking out some of [TS]

  her her enemies and that's going to [TS]

  happen in Game of Thrones III much would [TS]

  much rather see more people die then [TS]

  more new characters introduced at this [TS]

  point but game of thrones you got you [TS]

  got you got a window down right i mean [TS]

  yeah like I think this late in the game [TS]

  not everyone's gonna make [TS]

  alive obviously so will anyone to start [TS]

  that's not yeah that's my question to [TS]

  you [TS]

  I mean yeah and I feel like at this [TS]

  point if you're going to tie up [TS]

  everything there are probably a lot of [TS]

  people where the inside of us if they're [TS]

  dead right like they don't struggle as [TS]

  much I guess that's got dark [TS]

  that's one of the things that drew me [TS]

  the show in the beginning not having [TS]

  read the books as I game it's playing [TS]

  against type and against the the tropes [TS]

  of fantasy novels where you have that [TS]

  road character you know he's going to [TS]

  face many dangers but in the end become [TS]

  trampled and Game of Thrones state the [TS]

  dialogue and it's the sort of the the [TS]

  true to life nature of like when you [TS]

  read a history book you read about [TS]

  whoever it was that survived World War [TS]

  Two and went on to be a congressperson [TS]

  eventually became president united [TS]

  states but if you go back in time and [TS]

  are living through it and you look at [TS]

  all the different men in the same [TS]

  situation went off to war or whatever [TS]

  you can't tell which one of them is [TS]

  going to live through the war and become [TS]

  a congressman and become elected [TS]

  president I state you just they all look [TS]

  the same from this perspective and so [TS]

  you're wondering like which one is going [TS]

  to make it through like this the great [TS]

  filter or whatever and if you're [TS]

  watching your thoughts on having read [TS]

  the books as these people die off you're [TS]

  like yeah because that that's kind of [TS]

  what will be like you don't like the [TS]

  most heroic or bravest or strongest or [TS]

  most noble character there's nothing [TS]

  keeping them alive in real life they you [TS]

  know how many people die in wars and we [TS]

  never know anything more about them it's [TS]

  like you start trying to pick out [TS]

  characters early on in the season I was [TS]

  like is are you gonna be the one who [TS]

  lives for a long time like wow seems [TS]

  highly unlikely but you know and they [TS]

  weren't showing her that much and like [TS]

  trying to pair with Starks we're gonna [TS]

  live like obviously with the rub the Rob [TS]

  head fake but then it's like but Jon [TS]

  Snow he's kind of you know moody and [TS]

  like is that is we hang everything on [TS]

  that answer [TS]

  Sansa's a nitwit and like if you try to [TS]

  figure out who's who's gonna make it [TS]

  through and you realize as the show goes [TS]

  on [TS]

  they don't make it through because of [TS]

  who they are they become who they are [TS]

  because they made it through which i [TS]

  think is something so charming about [TS]

  this shit weird to call charming but [TS]

  such forgot the show that like said that [TS]

  it refuses to to like retcon itself to [TS]

  say always always clear from the [TS]

  beginning [TS]

  the jon snow would be the hero of the [TS]

  whole story that wasn't clear at all [TS]

  like an amine he he didn't I you know we [TS]

  can see it not only it wasn't clear he's [TS]

  gonna do it he actually did I just you [TS]

  know got a get-out-of-jail-free cards [TS]

  and got better [TS]

  yeah it was only mostly dead jaaniya at [TS]

  this point in the show I its condition [TS]

  me I think just to losing characters i [TS]

  honestly cannot think of any character [TS]

  right now that I would be truly [TS]

  heartbreaking heartbroken to lose like [TS]

  RX Tyrion oh god no I I would be happy [TS]

  to see are you get off track yeah yeah [TS]

  no I will I will have a one-person riot [TS]

  like people will opportunity that's [TS]

  right yeah perceiving characters even [TS]

  the characters i really like I i still [TS]

  feel like well I i would be alright with [TS]

  it if they if they want because that's [TS]

  just the way the show the only [TS]

  characters that I i would say I never [TS]

  thought they were going to die because [TS]

  they they seemed so it's not it's not [TS]

  the idea that the story is anybody can [TS]

  die it's like sometimes there are [TS]

  characters that if they died at a [TS]

  certain point you'd be like why do i [TS]

  watch them all this time because like [TS]

  nothing happened there and so that's why [TS]

  I always thought like Canaris is gonna [TS]

  do something right i mean never ever [TS]

  since she came out of you know when they [TS]

  put the crown on her the golden crown on [TS]

  her brother and kill them right at the [TS]

  boys like okay she's gonna make it cuz [TS]

  why are we following her all around if [TS]

  that's like hey there was this business [TS]

  girl over and in the in the east and she [TS]

  was gonna be a queen in Westeros and oh [TS]

  and she died like why would we do that [TS]

  she's out there on her own [TS]

  like if you're if you are away from [TS]

  other characters then if you die your [TS]

  entire thread of the story disappear so [TS]

  it's difficult but to pick them up one [TS]

  when you're in the mix it's easy I mean [TS]

  I guess I Johnson I felt like he was [TS]

  separated from everybody but I felt like [TS]

  he could have been separated to you know [TS]

  always send them off the wall that's [TS]

  where I felt like the lesson of the [TS]

  lessons we learned about the world and [TS]

  him ranging north of the wall and being [TS]

  the only character of real note who [TS]

  could i mean i-i didn't think they were [TS]

  going to pivot and say well I guess it's [TS]

  all about the onion knight now right and [TS]

  I love him he's my favorite character [TS]

  but it was like it felt to me like even [TS]

  when i read the book to and they kill [TS]

  Jon Snow's like yeah that his story's [TS]

  not done he's going to be back but those [TS]

  are exceptions to the rule in most cases [TS]

  take you know as much as I really like [TS]

  Marjorie as a character Marjorie's death [TS]

  is very important in terms of Cersei and [TS]

  she's a very important character and so [TS]

  I I kind of get that but it's true [TS]

  again it's the law of economy of [TS]

  characters again i would like to see [TS]

  fewer characters we're reaching the end [TS]

  game lots of people are gonna die [TS]

  this is the moment where you don't [TS]

  introduce new characters the sand snakes [TS]

  whatever behind the hall come on I want [TS]

  more of them whether they're already [TS]

  here I don't know yeah they're exactly [TS]

  exactly right but but it'sit's now it [TS]

  doesn't feel like we're introducing lots [TS]

  of characters and then killing them off [TS]

  and the bloodbath will continue [TS]

  indefinitely now it feels like we're in [TS]

  the end game and people are gonna die [TS]

  but they're going to die because the [TS]

  whole story is narrowing everything is [TS]

  coming together and that's a different [TS]

  feeling to me than just like you know [TS]

  random just everybody just keeps dying [TS]

  randomly which is not as fun because you [TS]

  don't get the sense like the story is [TS]

  progressing well and when we get to the [TS]

  end when we get the whole end of this [TS]

  thing we're getting close to the end now [TS]

  you will be able to back solve and tell [TS]

  the tale of let me tell you about the [TS]

  heroic Arya Stark or the heroic Tyrion [TS]

  Lannister whoever it is who ends up [TS]

  alive at the end a good position you no [TS]

  matter which of the characters lives who [TS]

  is currently live you will be able to [TS]

  construct a narrative that makes them [TS]

  the hero and you could really tell the [TS]

  whole story as the story of Tyrion he [TS]

  came from adversity and it looked like [TS]

  he wasn't gonna make it himself but then [TS]

  he became king of the Seven Kingdoms but [TS]

  you know what I pick any character [TS]

  wherever they end up they all you can [TS]

  always you know because they have all [TS]

  faced adversity and challenges and [TS]

  unlikely you know her patterns or [TS]

  whatever and that like it's just so nice [TS]

  to see the story not told as if everyone [TS]

  already knows how it ends but rather a [TS]

  bunch of people moving forward in time [TS]

  and a bunch of them don't make it and it [TS]

  mostly disconnected from how likable [TS]

  they are how noble they are what family [TS]

  there from what advantages they had or [TS]

  didn't have the beginning it truly is [TS]

  kind of like the weather of the world [TS]

  killing more or less indiscriminately [TS]

  based on bad luck in circumstance and [TS]

  things that people have no control over [TS]

  and i like that i may remind me reading [TS]

  the books i always thought like they're [TS]

  so detailed and make any read so much [TS]

  like they would be a history in a way [TS]

  that I would always think that this is [TS]

  the point where I would go to Wikipedia [TS]

  and look up what happens to all these [TS]

  people later on and history and you [TS]

  can't do it with a game of thrones [TS]

  because it's made up and that's I think [TS]

  that's part of the appeal is that you [TS]

  just don't you don't know where this is [TS]

  going although i will say again it's a [TS]

  song of ice and fire Denarius and jon [TS]

  snow just saying seems pretty important [TS]

  but you know we'll see [TS]

  we don't know could be brand bran stark [TS]

  interior our bar there they high-five at [TS]

  the end that's what happens i don't know [TS]

  I would be okay with it [TS]

  beers and high five yeah it's also going [TS]

  to be the return to be the I wanted to [TS]

  be the young the lady Mormon she's the [TS]

  only one yes you actually she's she is [TS]

  the one character that i think i would [TS]

  be the saddest if she died and she's [TS]

  great she's pretty cool [TS]

  she's pretty good I this season was such [TS]

  an improvement over last season for me I [TS]

  there like three points last season [TS]

  where I was like I'm not gonna watch [TS]

  this anymore and it was always you know [TS]

  the sansa storyline and i thought was it [TS]

  was brutal not i thought it was brutal [TS]

  it was brutal [TS]

  every time we got a female character a [TS]

  new female character who seems like they [TS]

  had you know agency and the ability to [TS]

  make things happen and they could take [TS]

  care of themselves they were like killed [TS]

  sometimes in the same episode and I i [TS]

  just it made me so angry I was like what [TS]

  do these people have against women like [TS]

  what the writers not the people in the [TS]

  story what are the writers have against [TS]

  women and this season was I don't want [TS]

  to say it was redemptive but it was a it [TS]

  was so much better and now we see Sansa [TS]

  with agency and with like you know not [TS]

  deferring to the person who she thinks [TS]

  of as the head of her house she's like [TS]

  okay well John you're gonna do this [TS]

  thing I'm gonna go to my other thing and [TS]

  then you know we'll hope it works out [TS]

  I'm going to speak up for myself you [TS]

  know the first season's it was all about [TS]

  being a lady and tending to her [TS]

  embroidery and doing what mother and [TS]

  father said and you know i'm going to [TS]

  marry the king and now she's like no [TS]

  so that's this is this is not the path [TS]

  for me i'm going to take care of myself [TS]

  I've learned I need to take care of [TS]

  myself and so I it was such a relief to [TS]

  me to have kind of that turnaround and [TS]

  for women in in the story like even [TS]

  searcy is awful she has she was treated [TS]

  so so poorly last season and I was kind [TS]

  of glad to see the high Sparrow open [TS]

  flame like I don't think we I don't I [TS]

  think that he had an agenda and I don't [TS]

  know that we'll ever know what his [TS]

  agenda was and i do not think it was you [TS]

  know honoring the gods i think he was up [TS]

  to something we may not know what that [TS]

  was but a I've heard people say that [TS]

  this season was really weak that the the [TS]

  storytelling was weak and I patently [TS]

  disagree with ya better with people are [TS]

  but they're formats that is crazy i yeah [TS]

  i just want to give you a great big high [TS]

  five only because I felt the same way I [TS]

  mean after a hard home was the moment [TS]

  that i almost just gave up on the show [TS]

  and honestly anybody who did give up [TS]

  last season I don't blame you but yeah [TS]

  there was plenty plenty of good reason [TS]

  to do so but I am glad that I didn't [TS]

  even though i will probably never watch [TS]

  hard home again ever [TS]

  i I'm glad that I didn't because I I got [TS]

  to see it's not just that the last few [TS]

  seasons were bleak because that's how [TS]

  narrative storytelling works you know [TS]

  darkest before the dawn but also yes [TS]

  that I don't know if they were paying [TS]

  attention to people's complaints or what [TS]

  or if they finally just got their heads [TS]

  out of their bums but yet the women are [TS]

  have been written much much better this [TS]

  season and I mean that you have episodes [TS]

  where it's just just the ladies talking [TS]

  to each other and being amazing i mean [TS]

  that the throne room scene between Danny [TS]

  and Yara I just had to stand up in my [TS]

  room here it was because it was [TS]

  overblown it wasn't overdone they didn't [TS]

  throw it in your face as much as they [TS]

  very very well could have so I mean that [TS]

  each character was still their own sort [TS]

  of dry subtle self and it just played [TS]

  off of each other so well so i think [TS]

  really when you look at all of the major [TS]

  power structures that we have in this [TS]

  world at this point have a woman at the [TS]

  top or very very near to the top [TS]

  which is not something I would've [TS]

  expected after the first few seasons of [TS]

  the show so i'm i'm excited to see where [TS]

  it goes and and hope that you know this [TS]

  trend continues of if the women aren't [TS]

  necessarily completely with succeeding I [TS]

  want them to fail for good reasons for [TS]

  me you know overcome not because they [TS]

  are you know stupid or feminine or have [TS]

  some type of very gendered motivation [TS]

  like not being able to kill a baby some [TS]

  people [TS]

  oh yeah haha yeah as long as they can as [TS]

  long as they can go down fighting in [TS]

  whatever manner that happens to be for [TS]

  the character i'm good with that and hey [TS]

  we had more Diana regular season and if [TS]

  we can keep having more dynamic i will [TS]

  be happy no matter what I'd be sad if [TS]

  she died too but not like I really [TS]

  thought that she was gonna buy today at [TS]

  some point there but I'm glad you made [TS]

  it a lot Marjorie got her out right she [TS]

  said her little flower note for those ya [TS]

  little note to get on a grandmother this [TS]

  guy you can't be here anymore [TS]

  uh yeah I liked it a lot i like the [TS]

  season a lot i felt like i like all of [TS]

  you have said they were unburdened I [TS]

  think I kind of my pet theory is that I [TS]

  feel like they were honoring george RR [TS]

  martin and i would include things that [TS]

  they might otherwise have left out and [TS]

  now that they don't have books to base [TS]

  on they just got kind of a plot outline [TS]

  they're able to kind of make better [TS]

  decisions for television and it felt [TS]

  like it everything started picking up I [TS]

  felt the whole season really moved a lot [TS]

  faster than last season even from the [TS]

  start [TS]

  there were a couple episodes of setup [TS]

  but the the I thought though there was a [TS]

  lot of plot advancement and and the [TS]

  story coming together at the end and hey [TS]

  after six seasons dinero sexually is [TS]

  like on a boat heading west that is [TS]

  progress [TS]

  I say yeah if we were each if we were [TS]

  still going by joining his timetable I [TS]

  don't want she would have gotten like [TS]

  for the you-know-what what is further [TS]

  west than Western just find out let's [TS]

  spend some serious time you know they in [TS]

  the books they say something about like [TS]

  to there's a prophecy of like to go west [TS]

  you must first go east and I thought oh [TS]

  god how far east you have to go like you [TS]

  did no no just keep sailing is maybe a [TS]

  wraparound is she's finding she's [TS]

  finding the passage in you know you'll [TS]

  find that it's a discworld then it's [TS]

  over here cross over at all that would [TS]

  be made what if what if the game of [TS]

  thrones universe is just the other side [TS]

  of the difference right is corporal only [TS]

  got hold on ecology [TS]

  my head hurts ok anything else about [TS]

  Game of Thrones Season six people wanna [TS]

  throw out before we wrap it up [TS]

  well they are we do should we discuss [TS]

  the I'm sure that probably came up in [TS]

  the end of the game of thrones cast you [TS]

  but the Jon Snow parentage again sort of [TS]

  like the reveal potentially of of [TS]

  something that's hung over the entire [TS]

  show basically I mean my favourite bit [TS]

  still being you know hey Ned says I'll [TS]

  tell you about your mom next time i see [TS]

  you never gave her and never again [TS]

  no it's so sad now and famously when [TS]

  george RR martin met with Benioff and [TS]

  Weiss the producers to talk to them [TS]

  about possibly making a show based on [TS]

  his books that's actually the cool the [TS]

  question he quizzed them with witches [TS]

  who do you think Jon Snow's parents are [TS]

  and they gave george RR martin the right [TS]

  answer which is liana stark and what [TS]

  Rhaegar Targaryen Rhaegar Targaryen yeah [TS]

  i just wanna say that's why you leave a [TS]

  note by the way [TS]

  yeah it should be opened in the in the [TS]

  event of my death [TS]

  I'm hoping that that truce doesn't come [TS]

  out like we have been we've been showing [TS]

  this because of brands vision and that [TS]

  brand either dies or never tells anyone [TS]

  he's alive and he's never mentioned [TS]

  again for the rest of the show we just [TS]

  assume like that that's the total game [TS]

  thrones thing to do because in many [TS]

  histories like how someone's actually [TS]

  didn't know that package but they died [TS]

  before they could tell anybody or they [TS]

  never told anybody [TS]

  the end no I think what's gonna happen [TS]

  is like there's going to be a big like [TS]

  explosion or flames of you know [TS]

  sometimes we go on fire and jon snow is [TS]

  gonna walk out of it totally naked and [TS]

  unburned and he's gonna be like what the [TS]

  hell just happened brands gonna go oh [TS]

  did I not tell you you're a Targaryen it [TS]

  is that a recessive Targaryen gene or is [TS]

  that like because I because what's his [TS]

  name [TS]

  Daenerys brother-sister particularly [TS]

  heat-resistant no not-not-not the molten [TS]

  gold anyway it would have been pretty [TS]

  funny if you have jobs that was all pan [TS]

  I totally should have let Melisandre [TS]

  sipping on fire i thought that was the [TS]

  right play [TS]

  yeah well I don't know but yeah I i [TS]

  suspect of it that's going to come up [TS]

  the to Jon Snow is a like the nephew of [TS]

  benares I think you know [TS]

  yeah that's right he can get Mary's and [TS]

  yeah well the data that we've told been [TS]

  told the Targaryen actually do marry in [TS]

  their family so they could totally get [TS]

  married [TS]

  that doesn't make it okay [TS]

  that's how you get the Mad King right [TS]

  that is how you get an American yeah [TS]

  yeah they don't we just back around [TS]

  we're back around to look at our aim [TS]

  problems before yeah well you know yeah [TS]

  totally better history always repeats [TS]

  itself you know [TS]

  alright and to end Tyrion getting a [TS]

  getting I I thought it was a really [TS]

  sweet seem the the scene where Tyrion [TS]

  kind of drops his guard is being the [TS]

  cynical guy and it's like no I believe [TS]

  in you and she makes him a hand of the [TS]

  Queen and all that that was all just [TS]

  that skirts that was made me cry and [TS]

  yeah [TS]

  Atlanta Syrians fate has a someone who's [TS]

  not going to make it may be doing to [TS]

  draw circles on the only thing keeping [TS]

  you alive but only with his only with [TS]

  with her with her only with his queen [TS]

  he's doing that is the love of his life [TS]

  to I think Tyrians gotta have a you know [TS]

  he's going to get get seriously i think [TS]

  i think that's he's gonna be he's gonna [TS]

  meet his brother and sister again at [TS]

  some point in a dramatic fashion I think [TS]

  that has to happen to you [TS]

  where's uncle kevin they want huh [TS]

  couldn't couldn't could make it the [TS]

  thing blew up the side it was [TS]

  Thanksgiving dinner [TS]

  yeah sorry Kevin oh alright well onward [TS]

  to the next game of thrones season [TS]

  whenever it shows up because apparently [TS]

  they've delayed filming they claim [TS]

  because there's winter is not coming [TS]

  yeah they need they need the skies to be [TS]

  gloomy here so they can shoot the winter [TS]

  scenes in their locations but it's been [TS]

  fun talking game of thrones and many [TS]

  other shows with my panel and i will i [TS]

  will say again there are 10 episodes of [TS]

  the TV podcast at the incomparable com [TS]

  /t VTE that you can find about every [TS]

  single episode of Game of Thrones this [TS]

  season if you would like to listen to [TS]

  those thanks to my panelists for being [TS]

  on and talking television with us taking [TS]

  time away from their busy [TS]

  television-watching to be on a podcast [TS]

  about television de Morgan thanks for [TS]

  being here [TS]

  I thanks for having me i should go back [TS]

  to watching television now David Laura [TS]

  know you've been quiet for the last [TS]

  little bit thank you so much for being [TS]

  on anytime i'm i'm excited to go back [TS]

  and watch all of season six now that I [TS]

  know what happened yes exactly right you [TS]

  just get caught up on the game of [TS]

  thrones brian hamilton thanks a lot for [TS]

  being here i'd like to make it a true [TS]

  Daily Double in me [TS]

  category of famous wolves famous wolves [TS]

  soup i'm sorry the correct answer was [TS]

  shaggy-dog shaggy DA shaggy tarpaper [TS]

  shacks dogs John siracusa Thank You a [TS]

  man waits patiently for the next season [TS]

  only in Sims thank you very much [TS]

  I've got daredevil waiting for me gotta [TS]

  go I don't know and Erica and sign [TS]

  thanks thanks a lot as usual you guys [TS]

  have made me feel like I'm not watching [TS]

  enough TV so thank god Erica get with [TS]

  the program come on get with all of the [TS]

  program's get with thank you [TS]

  mes british spelling for program and [TS]

  thanks everybody out there for listening [TS]

  to the incomparable we will see you next [TS]

  week right [TS]

  [Music] [TS]