The Incomparable

108: Journey: Then We Touched, Then We Sang


  we could you come free my friends [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  the entire horrible Todd test number 108 [TS]

  September 2012 [TS]

  mmm [TS]

  welcome back to the incomparable podcast [TS]

  I'm your host Jason L and in this [TS]

  edition we are not talking about movies [TS]

  we are not talking about books we are [TS]

  not talking about comics and we're not [TS]

  talking about TV shows we are talking [TS]

  about video games and in fact this is an [TS]

  episode devoted to the video game that [TS]

  John siracusa has devoted lots and lots [TS]

  of praise to which is a journey a [TS]

  journey by that game company released [TS]

  march 2012 this very year and John has [TS]

  sung the praises of this so much that it [TS]

  caused many of us who don't own a [TS]

  playstation 3 to go out and get one [TS]

  borrow it from a friend make new friends [TS]

  in order to our other playstation 3 and [TS]

  play this game so that John would you be [TS]

  able to do a podcast about it without [TS]

  being all by himself so joining me as [TS]

  you might expect is John siracusa who [TS]

  made this whole thing happened John [TS]

  thanks for being here it's really about [TS]

  bringing people together basically it is [TS]

  in fact I believe three of our guests [TS]

  perhaps played this game together [TS]

  yesterday [TS]

  now they were supposed to play it alone [TS]

  it's just about the trading the [TS]

  PlayStation instructions are complicated [TS]

  I understand about bringing people [TS]

  together but all all alone at first will [TS]

  you bring them together and then place [TS]

  them in isolation booth until it's their [TS]

  turn to play the game exactly so the the [TS]

  three people I I reference there Dan [TS]

  Morin and play this game I believe [TS]

  yesterday is that right down [TS]

  streetlights people living just to find [TS]

  emotion [TS]

  yeah Andy yeah i played this game is it [TS]

  just yesterday it seems like yesterday [TS]

  it was just yesterday it was to say was [TS]

  in it was in one of our other panelists [TS]

  living room I just SAT there quietly [TS]

  funny because it's true and so which is [TS]

  it so Tony sindelar is also here who's [TS]

  been on several of our podcast hi Tony [TS]

  you played this game with dan despite [TS]

  John Syracuse's I did not I i do what [TS]

  John syracuse that tells me to do you [TS]

  played it separately [TS]

  I did we all mainly because Jason who [TS]

  you will introduce the 2nd had already [TS]

  hosted one person in his living room [TS]

  yesterday the pleasure neon [TS]

  and rather than having a revolving door [TS]

  of people playing it in his living room [TS]

  while he sat in the corner hoping that [TS]

  people would leave i took his [TS]

  playstation from his house and brought [TS]

  it to my house where it still is and i [TS]

  played it by myself and miss it [TS]

  it'll come back someday that other [TS]

  person you heard there his name rhymes [TS]

  with Bochy it's jason tachi hi hi you [TS]

  played you are the owner of the [TS]

  playstation in question are you not it's [TS]

  true was was being the operative work [TS]

  was was it sold wasn't destroyed [TS]

  possessions nine-tenths of the law man [TS]

  Tony's got it now Tony's got it Wow uh [TS]

  and also here with us is somebody who [TS]

  wasn't part of the big journey party [TS]

  yesterday apparently which is a great [TS]

  Steve lots hi Steve a Jason now you're [TS]

  right I I I was not involved in the the [TS]

  big journey in I i was alone i never [TS]

  knew what good luck could do frankly [TS]

  that's good the wheel in the sky keeps [TS]

  on turning that's true so and i played [TS]

  this game i will say i also defied the [TS]

  siracusa rules and my wife and i played [TS]

  this game together because i believe [TS]

  marriages are strengthened by games of [TS]

  journey and uh and we had a good time in [TS]

  this game this game is actually very [TS]

  much in the genre video games that she [TS]

  likes so so we know open a bottle of [TS]

  wine and played some journey and [TS]

  everybody had a good time so I John do [TS]

  were the instigator of this entire thing [TS]

  so I wonder if perhaps you have some [TS]

  opening thoughts about this this game [TS]

  before we begin to discuss it [TS]

  my first opening thought which I'm [TS]

  surprised you had slipped by is that if [TS]

  you've not played this game and you like [TS]

  video games at all or I've ever seen a [TS]

  video game or think you might like [TS]

  playing a video game in sometime in the [TS]

  future in your life and can gain access [TS]

  to a playstation 3 some pears off [TS]

  listening to this podcast now do not [TS]

  listen to this podcast because we're [TS]

  going to ruin the game for you and this [TS]

  is definitely one of those games where [TS]

  I was telling you about it will take [TS]

  away from the enjoyment this podcast is [TS]

  isn't going anywhere just stopped [TS]

  listening now set it aside leave it in [TS]

  your iTunes library don't market is [TS]

  played [TS]

  you can come back and listen to it some [TS]

  days I'm never gonna get a playstation [TS]

  3i hate sony Sony killed my family [TS]

  someday you'll be able to play this game [TS]

  in some form on some future system and [TS]

  you will forgive sony for killing your [TS]

  think that's right out you get up there [TS]

  are you instructed me to fire off the [TS]

  spoiler horn [TS]

  yes it should be the biggest spoiler [TS]

  horn ever because i think i think and no [TS]

  other thing that has been discussed is [TS]

  except for perhaps some projects back if [TS]

  you don't know that I know that Darth [TS]

  Vader's Darth Vader's looks like whoa [TS]

  whoa didn't know that yes we really were [TS]

  in that for you [TS]

  i I'm sorry I I don't know where you're [TS]

  getting that because I i play the game [TS]

  having read multiple reviews and I knew [TS]

  virtually everything about the game [TS]

  apart from you know that the minutiae of [TS]

  it and I still managed to enjoy it [TS]

  thoroughly and I don't really think i [TS]

  saw anything it will still be good game [TS]

  I i don't think i found anything that I [TS]

  would have been out that I was [TS]

  disappointed that I knew about in [TS]

  advance I will elaborate on why I think [TS]

  that is not to say this will not be a [TS]

  fun game maybe if you know everything [TS]

  about it but I just think it has the [TS]

  chance to be much better so yes please [TS]

  fire the big gigantic spoiler horn [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  the spoiler horn the biggest boiler horn [TS]

  in the universe has been fired so so [TS]

  John now that we've cleared out the room [TS]

  the spoiler horn has rendered everyone [TS]

  did completely deaf in fact I how would [TS]

  you like to proceed from here this is [TS]

  your show basically as far as I'm [TS]

  concerned I'm just here to move things [TS]

  along and non-stop to frame this my [TS]

  opening comments for this and a lot of [TS]

  the other games that I really like and [TS]

  tell people that they should play is [TS]

  these games that I like so much and i [TS]

  recommend everybody i always get the [TS]

  feeling that to like these kind of games [TS]

  you have to have been sort of brought up [TS]

  in a in a gaming culture that there is [TS]

  there's some background that you need to [TS]

  to fully appreciate and enjoy these [TS]

  games and it's always struck me as kind [TS]

  of a shame because I wish other people [TS]

  could experience these games the same [TS]

  way I do and that i talked a lot about [TS]

  this on on hypercritical couple episodes [TS]

  back there's two parts of this one was [TS]

  the skill component of being able to [TS]

  just move the little dude on the screen [TS]

  and we've all seen people who can't do [TS]

  that at all i don't think there are any [TS]

  on-the-spot guess but they're out there [TS]

  so many people who just can't get past [TS]

  that and that they're completely [TS]

  prevented from enjoying these games [TS]

  because of the skill but i'm not even [TS]

  talking about that perception we all [TS]

  have enough skill to you know move the [TS]

  little guy around on the screen and [TS]

  we're doing the second part is if you're [TS]

  not steeped in gaming culture there are [TS]

  gaming conventions and things about the [TS]

  experience that the Gamemakers hope that [TS]

  you did that you don't have to explain [TS]

  to you that are going to be new and you [TS]

  can appreciate the finer points and not [TS]

  get bogged down with the basic stuff I [TS]

  some it's it's different than something [TS]

  like a movie where we feel like we can [TS]

  bring everybody along but I that that's [TS]

  one of the things about all these these [TS]

  games that i really love that [TS]

  disappoints me because i always get the [TS]

  feeling that someone out there is [TS]

  playing this game but they're not [TS]

  playing the same game as I am because [TS]

  all those sort of base foundational [TS]

  things that come from you know thirties [TS]

  plus years of playing video games aren't [TS]

  there and that's what they're playing [TS]

  and then I'm playing the thing above [TS]

  that so journey fella him i got to me [TS]

  but I also think that [TS]

  it's enjoyable at every possible level [TS]

  so i'm very interested in hearing [TS]

  everybody's experience playing the game [TS]

  and at what level they felt like they [TS]

  were playing the game like what what [TS]

  aspects of the game did they find most [TS]

  enjoyable are interesting and which [TS]

  aspects were either above or beneath [TS]

  their recognition [TS]

  I'll jump in and say that it was an [TS]

  interesting experience for me coming [TS]

  from someone who plays a decent number [TS]

  of video games even on a console and so [TS]

  in terms of like coming from a certain [TS]

  type of background where for example i [TS]

  play a lot of games where it's like oh [TS]

  man I want to go through and like do [TS]

  everything that's possible and collect [TS]

  all the things that I'm supposed to [TS]

  collect and there's a certain sort of [TS]

  compulsion sometimes two games like that [TS]

  for me that have a collector aspect and [TS]

  there were times where I wondered at [TS]

  home and I want to find like missing [TS]

  something you know like just I haven't [TS]

  explored something that I could have [TS]

  explored but after a certain point I got [TS]

  beyond that to a point where it's just [TS]

  like I just wanted to get you know I [TS]

  wanted to keep going and that was more [TS]

  important to me than stopping and [TS]

  finding every little secret or or nook [TS]

  and cranny that I could possibly explore [TS]

  but i did spend a really long time in [TS]

  that first sort of environment that you [TS]

  visit because it took me awhile to [TS]

  figure out exactly what I was supposed [TS]

  to do and you know like i said i played [TS]

  this number of video games and like [TS]

  johns talking about there's a shared [TS]

  language in a series of strokes or what [TS]

  have you that that you can sort of tap [TS]

  into and figure out what I'm supposed to [TS]

  do any given game right because I know [TS]

  what buttons i'm supposed to press and I [TS]

  you know how I'm supposed to interact [TS]

  certain things and accuse they're going [TS]

  to point me in certain directions in to [TS]

  a certain extent it was interesting also [TS]

  to play on a system that i'm not very [TS]

  familiar with because it did remove some [TS]

  of the standard language that i have for [TS]

  all you know if I'm playing a game on my [TS]

  xbox I know roughly like okay the [TS]

  triggers going to do these kinds of [TS]

  things that joysticks are going to do [TS]

  these kind of things and so you [TS]

  obviously the PlayStation is very [TS]

  similar but it was just slightly [TS]

  different off at times I was like why [TS]

  you know gotta figure out how do i can [TS]

  tilt this controller to change the [TS]

  camera angle and stuff like that so it [TS]

  was it was an interesting departure in [TS]

  some way [TS]

  is for many of the games that you play I [TS]

  think it was interesting that the game [TS]

  is sort of designed to be accessible to [TS]

  people who might not play a lot of games [TS]

  but also it gave a sort of familiar way [TS]

  of interacting with it if you are [TS]

  familiar with games now when i first [TS]

  started playing it and you stand up in [TS]

  the desert there at the beginning and [TS]

  you can it tells you all use this button [TS]

  to move around and tilt the controller [TS]

  to look around and I thought to myself [TS]

  oh man i really wish they would just let [TS]

  me use the right thumbstick to move [TS]

  around that's what I'm used to it using [TS]

  a move my camera around and then I find [TS]

  that I could do that and so that's what [TS]

  i use basically for the rest of the game [TS]

  because you can do a lot faster and I'm [TS]

  used to controlling a camera really [TS]

  quickly and games like that when i gave [TS]

  the game to my fiance to try out who [TS]

  does not play a lot of games and really [TS]

  find it very off-putting which has to [TS]

  control the camera with the thumbstick [TS]

  she found it very natural to tilt the [TS]

  controller just slightly to move the [TS]

  camera around and stuck to that for the [TS]

  entire time that she played was telling [TS]

  me afterward about how much she [TS]

  appreciated that she could move it like [TS]

  that because it's not as fast and it [TS]

  gives you a chance to actually feel like [TS]

  you're just looking around a leisurely [TS]

  kind of pace and and it's that kind of [TS]

  game or it gives you room to move and [TS]

  space to kind of decide what you're [TS]

  going to do next without necessarily [TS]

  always being a fast-acting like oh my [TS]

  gosh something's gonna kill you right [TS]

  now kind of game [TS]

  I actually felt like they were kind of a [TS]

  lot of video game convention that kind [TS]

  of had to unlearn what you know part of [TS]

  that for example is so many of the [TS]

  buttons that do the same thing right [TS]

  like their multiple buttons that will [TS]

  let you jump and things like that [TS]

  the idea that each button doesn't have [TS]

  some unique thing to do and I almost [TS]

  felt like I was kind of progressing [TS]

  through things there at the same similar [TS]

  experience to Dan were you know I I had [TS]

  to kind of give up that compulsion to be [TS]

  like there's a shiny thing in the [TS]

  distance I should go find that all right [TS]

  i need to look at every corner of the [TS]

  level to find the shiny things I can't [TS]

  see my kind of at a certain point was [TS]

  just like I just kind of want to i want [TS]

  to see what's next [TS]

  and that's more interesting to me than [TS]

  finding every object in the level [TS]

  um but I also think it kind of forced me [TS]

  to look at it a little bit differently i [TS]

  mean when i first saw this I thought [TS]

  like all I'm going to be like pushing [TS]

  blocks all around and solving puzzles [TS]

  and things like that it was [TS]

  you know that there's a lot that it's [TS]

  very stripped down it's not like other [TS]

  games where you know I'm gonna have to [TS]

  navigate an environment and kind of [TS]

  control in in a more complex way I guess [TS]

  that was perhaps what I was expecting [TS]

  going into it was that I was gonna have [TS]

  to do lots of kind of like lock shifting [TS]

  and puzzle-solving and things like that [TS]

  that was the point I should have made in [TS]

  the intro is that part of the having [TS]

  this this cultural background of [TS]

  conventions these games that i love so [TS]

  much [TS]

  it's partially because they play against [TS]

  those conventions if you don't know what [TS]

  those conventions are something playing [TS]

  against them is not as interesting as [TS]

  you do know there are so it's a great [TS]

  examples ego which plays against like [TS]

  every convention you could possibly [TS]

  imagine in terms of the game interface [TS]

  journey is closed [TS]

  one of the things that that eco does [TS]

  it's very unique the journey sort of [TS]

  does is it decides that pretty much [TS]

  everything is in the game world so if [TS]

  you think about a game like that and [TS]

  like diablo or something or real-time [TS]

  strategy game our first person shooter [TS]

  or even something like Zelda armario [TS]

  like for example you hit when you hit an [TS]

  enemy like the part that you hit glows [TS]

  red to show the year you have damaged [TS]

  when you put your cursor over something [TS]

  in the elbow they get an outline to show [TS]

  that they're highlighted right that's [TS]

  the interface to the game telling you [TS]

  highlighted this person this thing has [TS]

  this much health less because health bar [TS]

  on it or you know or did you know here [TS]

  is an item you can pick up this is this [TS]

  coin is worth five the number 50 p [TS]

  robert wright in eco everything is in [TS]

  the game world so if nothing in real [TS]

  life would glow with the red outline [TS]

  nothing in the game close with the red [TS]

  outline journey walks a fine line [TS]

  because it pretty much does the same [TS]

  thing but it does do like the overlay to [TS]

  show hey you can tell your controller [TS]

  hey move the stick or whatever very [TS]

  limited in the beginning and it does [TS]

  have things that glow but it's my [TS]

  impression that they're really glowing [TS]

  in the game world and that's not [TS]

  interesting to you if you don't know [TS]

  that the convention is always have some [TS]

  sort of user interface or a HUD or [TS]

  things that light up you know and then [TS]

  the perfect example of that was well i'm [TS]

  wandering wandering around that first [TS]

  environment which is kinda like that [TS]

  sunken crater temple ruins etc I always [TS]

  like trying to figure out where to go [TS]

  and so I'm like walking and climbing up [TS]

  the sides of this little like crater and [TS]

  at one point I got all the way to the [TS]

  top and some place and was clearly some [TS]

  place I was not supposed to go and so [TS]

  when you get to sort of what you know [TS]

  what we all think of as the edge of the [TS]

  map right instead of just being like you [TS]

  hit an invisible wall and can't go [TS]

  anywhere if you try to press further [TS]

  there are winds that just blow you back [TS]

  in your characters like trying to push [TS]

  into the wind and I thought that was [TS]

  just a subtle point that was well done [TS]

  because it did give me the queue of oh I [TS]

  am clearly not supposed to go that way [TS]

  he climb climb enough far enough up the [TS]

  hillside the wind blows you and you fall [TS]

  you slide down the hillside and go all [TS]

  right let's try something else i'd be [TS]

  curious how many people who weren't [TS]

  gamers would push against that win for [TS]

  half an hour before realizing that i was [TS]

  nothing is lost and that's another thing [TS]

  if if you're a gamer you get the idea [TS]

  pretty quickly oh I shouldn't go this [TS]

  way if you're not a game you may spend [TS]

  some time there but that actually brings [TS]

  up these links that i just gave Jason [TS]

  before the show of 22 episodes of extra [TS]

  credits which is a video game video [TS]

  series that was on the web is now part [TS]

  of Penny Arcade early stay out they host [TS]

  it and they have a 22 episodes season 4 [TS]

  episode 20 and 21 that show how journey [TS]

  conforms to the hero's journey thing I [TS]

  don't want to go over this is there good [TS]

  videos just watch yourself with this one [TS]

  particular aspect is a it's joseph [TS]

  campbell right the hero's journey yeah [TS]

  and one I figure with the steps are but [TS]

  one of the steps is a wasn't rejecting [TS]

  the call or something like that where [TS]

  the hero says no i don't i don't want [TS]

  this you're ignoring the color something [TS]

  that take this cup away from me or [TS]

  whatever I and the in the videos they [TS]

  say you know we thought to make that was [TS]

  a step that journey left out because at [TS]

  no point does the player reject the call [TS]

  to go in the hero's journey you're [TS]

  always in the game right so I guess [TS]

  during doesn't have that part of the [TS]

  hero's journey but actually it does and [TS]

  the the rejecting the call and I'm [TS]

  getting the words wrong here is when you [TS]

  go somewhere that you're not supposed to [TS]

  go you go to the edge of the map you say [TS]

  I wonder what's over here and you say [TS]

  but you know I don't want to go where [TS]

  the game wants me to go because it's not [TS]

  glaringly obvious i want to see what's [TS]

  over here and you are rejecting the call [TS]

  of the game to go on this journey like [TS]

  no actually I just want to go see what's [TS]

  over here it looks like it might be neat [TS]

  and the winds blow you back [TS]

  yeah i thought the talking about being a [TS]

  gamer versus a non-gamer for me as [TS]

  somebody who has had various consoles [TS]

  over the years but is not even remotely [TS]

  a hardcore gamer I felt like [TS]

  this uh I knew enough that it all came [TS]

  back to me you know i played what like [TS]

  Tomb Raider and things like that and it [TS]

  I the muscle memory was still there at [TS]

  that level that it was a really basic [TS]

  you know from five or ten years ago [TS]

  memory of I know how to get around and I [TS]

  gotta move the camera and that was [TS]

  enough for me it was i I wasn't confused [TS]

  about like what happens i press a button [TS]

  here and somebody on the screen moves I [TS]

  mean I understood that part of it but it [TS]

  had been a long time since I played a [TS]

  game like this and it was i was able to [TS]

  figure it out very quickly and then [TS]

  become just engrossed in the in the [TS]

  story as we go and it is a very gentle [TS]

  game in the sense of of entering you [TS]

  into this world and having you figure [TS]

  out what what you're supposed to be [TS]

  doing in fact it's you can see how [TS]

  carefully the the game designers have [TS]

  set this up so that you are kind of led [TS]

  by the hand at the beginning and and [TS]

  given a very gentle introduction to how [TS]

  this game works [TS]

  yeah and I mean there are plenty of [TS]

  other things in there that sort of [TS]

  defies that same you know vocabulary [TS]

  that many of us get adjusted to UM and I [TS]

  don't know I'm kind of curious in some [TS]

  ways so Jason Tasi tachi we're going to [TS]

  announce today you were you are watching [TS]

  me for on and off for some of that [TS]

  portion because i know you're sitting in [TS]

  the room doing some work but you would [TS]

  glance up every time the end and I have [TS]

  you know that does change the experience [TS]

  I think John's right because I [TS]

  definitely felt like you know i'm [TS]

  staring at the screen watching you [TS]

  watching like my god you think I'm an [TS]

  idiot comes my fortune 10 minutes but [TS]

  like how well I did spend a really long [TS]

  time wandering around that first section [TS]

  because I thought I had figured out [TS]

  where to go and then I couldn't figure [TS]

  out what to do with when I got to that [TS]

  platform was sort of the first little [TS]

  out monument that you reach and it's [TS]

  like IRL there's a thing here and it [TS]

  seems like this is where I should go but [TS]

  nothing seems to happen when I get here [TS]

  so maybe I should spend more time [TS]

  exploring and so I wandered around for [TS]

  you know another 10 minutes before i [TS]

  went finally decided alright i guess [TS]

  that's where i was supposed to be let me [TS]

  figure out what the hell is what to do [TS]

  when I got there [TS]

  yeah well I was watching you but not [TS]

  like in a creepy way or anything um gift [TS]

  I what I was struck by actually was in [TS]

  that first area while I saw you [TS]

  wandering around I was just like man he [TS]

  is just so much more thorough than I was [TS]

  not spend enough time looking around his [TS]

  guide for hundreds and completion yeah [TS]

  yeah I was like oh man I you know I and [TS]

  it was funny too because I had already [TS]

  finished the game at that point and so [TS]

  I'm looking around at the at the first [TS]

  zone there with a new sense of [TS]

  appreciation of things I didn't [TS]

  understand before like this little lit [TS]

  up blocks and one part and you're [TS]

  looking at Dan playing I realized oh [TS]

  those are for to indicate how many [TS]

  collectible shiny things you picked up [TS]

  during the course of the game right [TS]

  because dad already picked up three or [TS]

  something like that whereas by have more [TS]

  lit up and I realized they indicated [TS]

  which levels you pick them up on and [TS]

  stuff but mostly I was watching and [TS]

  thinking to myself like me did I not [TS]

  play it right should I looked around and [TS]

  then when I want you playing in later [TS]

  levels i was struck by app after you [TS]

  made the decision to just press on which [TS]

  is I did the exact same thing at a [TS]

  certain point was just like not want to [TS]

  see how it ends and i'll go back and [TS]

  play it again later we pressed on and [TS]

  almost the exact same ways including [TS]

  there's one level where um hi it's [TS]

  another desert level on partway through [TS]

  maybe the third one and where you can [TS]

  crawl up along the surface eastern edge [TS]

  of this giant sand dunes and the wind [TS]

  starts blowing engine starts getting [TS]

  darker and there's just our off to your [TS]

  left and that is not the only way to get [TS]

  up to where you're trying to get and I [TS]

  know that because somebody else that I [TS]

  saw playing went another way entirely [TS]

  but dan and I went about it the exact [TS]

  same way like pushing against the winds [TS]

  trying to go the most difficult way [TS]

  possible and I was fascinated with that [TS]

  is exactly what i did too did you too [TS]

  yes in fact that was the one place where [TS]

  is going to confused by the wind because [TS]

  like I could see the tower and clearly i [TS]

  can I have to go like all the way to my [TS]

  left but I'm like I'm just trying to go [TS]

  right at the tower and the wind won't [TS]

  let you do that night you know I'm like [TS]

  like trying to like I'm trying to beat [TS]

  it like it's actually win like I'm [TS]

  zigzagging to like and pressed against [TS]

  that is different like four minutes like [TS]

  trying to try to push thru invisible [TS]

  wall is a good point i think to bring up [TS]

  the other aspect of the game which is [TS]

  how many i know i never talk about but I [TS]

  was saying play alone like as if you're [TS]

  sitting in a room by yourself holding [TS]

  control over how many of you play the [TS]

  game [TS]

  alone in the game world versus with [TS]

  another character and how many of you [TS]

  knew that those other characters were [TS]

  other people sitting in their living [TS]

  rooms or thought they were computer [TS]

  players [TS]

  well that was one thing i got spoiled [TS]

  for me what you know about that mechanic [TS]

  like it was funny because especially [TS]

  when I started off the game we had some [TS]

  trouble getting the PlayStation account [TS]

  to work correctly so I remember starting [TS]

  into Jason yes is not connected networks [TS]

  that probably goes yeah that's a big [TS]

  problem so we had to like back out of [TS]

  the game and restart but it was the [TS]

  question i had and and I tried to [TS]

  address this jason afterwards but we're [TS]

  trying to avoid spoilers for other [TS]

  people in the room so we didn't get a [TS]

  full chance to talk about it was it was [TS]

  not clear to me whether it was the same [TS]

  person that I was encountering over and [TS]

  over again so the sound that they make [TS]

  when what when they sing there's a [TS]

  symbol [TS]

  yes I noted I i noticed that afterwards [TS]

  when it when it identifies all of them [TS]

  yes so the symbol is who the people are [TS]

  right at the end there's the credits and [TS]

  it's l0 you paid the journey with and [TS]

  and I was spoiled too i knew that there [TS]

  was this sort of unique network play [TS]

  where they--either they create a way for [TS]

  you not to have a twelve-year-old boy [TS]

  say second bad tonight instead it's now [TS]

  exactly exactly so I had not had a [TS]

  spoiled but and I wasn't entirely sure [TS]

  what I was seeing and I wasn't sure you [TS]

  know where the earliest companion could [TS]

  kind of appear I think I wasn't like the [TS]

  second level and I suddenly saw this [TS]

  little shape dancing in the distance and [TS]

  and I didn't really know quite what I [TS]

  was experiencing at first I wasn't sure [TS]

  if that was you know the way it was [TS]

  moving and reacted to me did not seem [TS]

  like nai right arm and you know in some [TS]

  effort and I wasn't sure and I was like [TS]

  trying to test it so i would do the [TS]

  thing where I would like sing and [TS]

  sometimes it would sing back to me and [TS]

  sometimes in wouldn't and it would you [TS]

  know sometimes we follow me and [TS]

  sometimes it would wander off into its [TS]

  own thing and I wasn't really sure [TS]

  exactly what I was experiencing in terms [TS]

  of like is a person is this live resist [TS]

  you know am I seeing like you know a [TS]

  recorded session of somebody else or or [TS]

  whatnot so i didn't have that ruined for [TS]

  me and I wasn't entirely sure at first [TS]

  what I was experiencing it was kind of [TS]

  immediately obvious to me the way that [TS]

  thing was moving that like this was not [TS]

  an AI right it's not you know keeping a [TS]

  static distance from me it's not [TS]

  following some preset path there was [TS]

  something about it that felt like [TS]

  extremely organic [TS]

  alive even though it's just you know a [TS]

  bunch of pixels on the screen that like [TS]

  I immediately started to question what [TS]

  is that you know as opposed to just [TS]

  assuming that it was some npc that was [TS]

  following me around [TS]

  I felt the same way it's a I i played [TS]

  with i think four separate guy is my [TS]

  first time through the game for girls [TS]

  it's really have no idea i had three [TS]

  I had eight whoa yeah I ended up with [TS]

  eight on this on my second playthrough [TS]

  but on the first 1i think it was either [TS]

  three or four and it pretty much the [TS]

  whole way through I I thought it was the [TS]

  same person i think the reason for that [TS]

  is because the the actions that you can [TS]

  perform are so completely limited and [TS]

  you know there's there's only so much a [TS]

  person can do to differentiate itself [TS]

  from another person and and i think it [TS]

  is really interesting playing a [TS]

  multiplayer game where because those [TS]

  actions are so limited [TS]

  there's really no way for another player [TS]

  to screw with you so since there's no [TS]

  point in being an ahole other players [TS]

  just kind of give up on the concept [TS]

  because i know some of those people i [TS]

  was playing with her probably nine year [TS]

  old kids who given the opportunity would [TS]

  have you know spirit obscenities at me [TS]

  in seconds [TS]

  yes and told me to eat it brutally but [TS]

  you know because that wasn't even an [TS]

  option other players they just seem like [TS]

  that the other decide to just sort of [TS]

  amuse themselves by jumping around or [TS]

  are there actually actively helpful [TS]

  which is another strange experience in a [TS]

  multiplayer game having only played at [TS]

  once i also wasn't sure when I was [TS]

  experiencing you know because there were [TS]

  lots of times when there wasn't a person [TS]

  there i think either there wasn't a [TS]

  companion on the level or they were way [TS]

  ahead of winter way behind me and I [TS]

  wasn't sure in terms of I was basically [TS]

  not sure in terms of what I was [TS]

  experiencing like am I supposed to be at [TS]

  this place alone because there are parts [TS]

  of the game more like you feel extremely [TS]

  alone and I wasn't sure that was by [TS]

  design or they're just happen to not be [TS]

  a companion there i'm thinking [TS]

  especially at the kind of toward the end [TS]

  when I'm climbing up through the snow [TS]

  I was you know I had not seen a [TS]

  companion probably a half-hour at that [TS]

  point I had I had a companion when you [TS]

  had a companion with you that would have [TS]

  been a very different experience I felt [TS]

  like I lost mine towards the end about [TS]

  like the third level from the end and i [TS]

  actually was was terribly sad i kept [TS]

  turning the camera to look behind me and [TS]

  be like are they can't really go someone [TS]

  here am I supposed to be climbing this [TS]

  mountain [TS]

  to forever I was bummed because my new [TS]

  my companion would he would never [TS]

  complete his pilgrimage and it wasn't [TS]

  busy kind of depressing and sad day i'm [TS]

  curious to know you know again what [TS]

  you're sort of it seems like the [TS]

  overwhelming feeling here was kind of a [TS]

  bond of you know [TS]

  come-come robbery right between you and [TS]

  so curious because I felt like different [TS]

  at different times I had different [TS]

  relationships with the Companions i was [TS]

  playing with like you know in that [TS]

  second level when you first meet someone [TS]

  I figured out from them what I was [TS]

  supposed to do in that level right where [TS]

  you have to get those carpets to like [TS]

  for the bridge for you and so he was [TS]

  walking around and triggered something I [TS]

  said oh okay I get it i'm going to go [TS]

  and do this i don't know i think that's [TS]

  what I thought of them as well what's [TS]

  the deal with the movie tickets flying [TS]

  around in the air when you guys did your [TS]

  first playthrough and and you had [TS]

  companions walking around with you I [TS]

  have a theory on the way the game kind [TS]

  of works with that that I've noticed [TS]

  that on the second playthrough and on [TS]

  subsequent playthroughs i ran across a [TS]

  lot of people that had additional [TS]

  decoration on the end of their robes [TS]

  like the second time i played through I [TS]

  noticed i had some patterns towards the [TS]

  bottom of my robe and a i ran across a [TS]

  lot of other people who had it all the [TS]

  almost halfway up the road they had [TS]

  patterns and one guy was actually [TS]

  completely white and glowing and I don't [TS]

  think during my first playthrough I ran [TS]

  through anybody that meets that [TS]

  description i think I only hit people [TS]

  that were almost entirely brown or or [TS]

  maybe had played through once and so I'm [TS]

  wondering if the game is actually [TS]

  actively gating people who have only [TS]

  played the game I have not played the [TS]

  game frequently and deliberately putting [TS]

  them together to ensure that one person [TS]

  doesn't lead everybody else to the game [TS]

  I don't think so just because i played [TS]

  through once completely and and [TS]

  basically but the only way that was able [TS]

  to tell that some people that I changed [TS]

  companions partway through is that at [TS]

  first I was running with somebody who [TS]

  had a scarf that was much shorter than [TS]

  mine and then suddenly they sat down for [TS]

  a while and were replaced by someone who [TS]

  had a scarf that was much longer than [TS]

  mine [TS]

  wonder what they saw in their little [TS]

  vision after what you must be really [TS]

  really hard to get people to actually [TS]

  sit down and do that [TS]

  meditate with someone for 20 seconds [TS]

  trophy but anyway [TS]

  actually I didn't have a problem with [TS]

  that because did you I i think that that [TS]

  the person that I ran across who had [TS]

  stripes about halfway up the second i [TS]

  sat down this person realized oh ok this [TS]

  person wants to get this achievement and [TS]

  he sat down to think i would so I went [TS]

  to try and read various like see two [TS]

  rentals reviews after I played it and [TS]

  one of the things that i read basically [TS]

  described a language in which you would [TS]

  use signaling with the singing to try [TS]

  and communicate awhile which seemed [TS]

  crazy because it's like how would anyone [TS]

  but they they have like elaborately you [TS]

  know it was it was basically verging [TS]

  toward Morse code right like like so too [TS]

  long and short is it you know [TS]

  yeah but did you did you feel like you [TS]

  develop like an ad-hoc language because [TS]

  I kind of did a couple points or no i [TS]

  mean i would kind of thing back and [TS]

  forth the people the language they were [TS]

  suggesting seem kind of basically crazy [TS]

  because like I mean for example you know [TS]

  they were suggesting like all like like [TS]

  four dashes in a row that would let you [TS]

  apologize and I'm like I don't think [TS]

  you're gonna game where I need to [TS]

  apologize [TS]

  speaking of apologies that is one of the [TS]

  most interesting aspects of this game I [TS]

  think you guys will hit on most of the [TS]

  points that I would that I would have [TS]

  brought up myself that the only thing [TS]

  that I have to add about the multiplayer [TS]

  are you got the point about you know the [TS]

  so we've got the everyone here has heard [TS]

  of a John Gabe good John Gabriel's [TS]

  greater internet f1 theory [TS]

  oh yes that it's normal person plus [TS]

  anonymity is audience equals total life [TS]

  wad right and that's what that's what [TS]

  we're talking about in regular [TS]

  multiplayer games also in this game [TS]

  it's not just that there's so few [TS]

  actions that you can do because then [TS]

  whatever you got you got sing and you've [TS]

  got walk around and you've got fly is [TS]

  that they were in early versions of the [TS]

  game [TS]

  I've gone back now after playing it so [TS]

  many times and read all about it [TS]

  they are originally had a collision [TS]

  detection between the players but I [TS]

  don't have any of you noticed this but [TS]

  there is no collision detection between [TS]

  players you can be standing and [TS]

  literally the same place as it like that [TS]

  the body's just go through each other [TS]

  that's so you can't even bump somebody [TS]

  off the platform and the characters [TS]

  themselves [TS]

  I mean if you look at them looks like [TS]

  they're wearing a poncho but they [TS]

  basically have no arms like there-there [TS]

  agency in the world through like the [TS]

  arms which you would grab somebody or [TS]

  punch somebody or do something to have [TS]

  any arms this is clearly signaling no [TS]

  interaction of that type with with the [TS]

  other people but I you mentioned al [TS]

  apologies one of the first things to [TS]

  come about this game it's kind of a [TS]

  shame you guys played it now and [TS]

  that way back in March because there was [TS]

  a big rush of like gamer nerds who [TS]

  played in the first few weeks and I [TS]

  think we all were kind of you know the [TS]

  bright-eyed gamer nerds or whatever but [TS]

  afterwards on the message boards for the [TS]

  for the journey game they had a [TS]

  persistent apology thread in which [TS]

  people would tell a story kind of missed [TS]

  connections on whatever thing has been [TS]

  in sight [TS]

  you don't know me but we were in this [TS]

  thing together and I didn't mean to let [TS]

  the dragon CS but he did and I feel so [TS]

  bad about that and they were just go in [TS]

  the forums they would have big long [TS]

  anonymous apology threads to like you [TS]

  know person was simple with two little [TS]

  triangles who was on at this time a [TS]

  night or whatever at apologizing and my [TS]

  first experience playing through the [TS]

  game was I guess what kind of a [TS]

  monogamous person where I i met somebody [TS]

  I I was by myself for a long time I saw [TS]

  the people index I'm gonna go two miles [TS]

  on my own until things got scary and I [TS]

  teamed up with somebody and he he he led [TS]

  me through the whole thing and we were [TS]

  together you know what your business is [TS]

  like it's like the first day the game [TS]

  came out right so no one knows anything [TS]

  about the game we got our stomping [TS]

  little red tails and we're walking [TS]

  through this thing together and we're [TS]

  like huddled together to try to you know [TS]

  come over here all hot and high from [TS]

  this height of this thing whatever and [TS]

  we were in the part where you're hiding [TS]

  in the little sections of the Dragon [TS]

  things so they don't see you know and [TS]

  I'm i bumped into the doorway and didn't [TS]

  get into the door in time I'm like one [TS]

  of the middle ones and that was enough [TS]

  for the dragon to spot us both and come [TS]

  through and rip off all our tails and I [TS]

  felt so bad about that I had to let down [TS]

  my partner we've been in this together [TS]

  right [TS]

  I just felt terrible and like the the [TS]

  rest of the walk I was like despondent [TS]

  and like you get things like he's like [TS]

  walking you know I felt like my head was [TS]

  hung low it's like I blew it for both of [TS]

  us and you know that's just it it [TS]

  changed the game entirely for me we're [TS]

  going to approach the light with tiny [TS]

  little scarves i think that that [TS]

  perfectly describes what I find so [TS]

  magical about this game though it's [TS]

  particularly in terms of what you're [TS]

  saying before even about collision [TS]

  detection I did the exact same thing by [TS]

  the way in that area with a little you [TS]

  know structures that you run between the [TS]

  snow and you attract the attention of [TS]

  things and I I wouldn't get to the the [TS]

  door and in time and the things spotted [TS]

  me and so I immediately broke off to the [TS]

  side to leave the thing away from my [TS]

  companion oh wow [TS]

  and it worked and didn't think about it [TS]

  and it's not something I would have done [TS]

  pretty much any other multiplayer game [TS]

  we're just like whatever if I'm getting [TS]

  screwed so are you but it [TS]

  Wow see I played that section by myself [TS]

  it was very different it was scary i was [TS]

  in and out like i had people there and [TS]

  then gone and I in fact set and ready [TS]

  the creature of myself at one point [TS]

  without you know with nobody else around [TS]

  i had separated myself my partner but [TS]

  the thing that I was going to say about [TS]

  that similar is like and that part where [TS]

  you're sort of climbing up the mountain [TS]

  in the snow [TS]

  I had a guy who's sort of going along [TS]

  with me at the same time and because of [TS]

  the way that it the snow works you know [TS]

  freezing your scarf like we would like I [TS]

  would like running immediately try to [TS]

  like cuddle with him back to like like [TS]

  and I was like that was that was so to [TS]

  me that was fascinating to be like we're [TS]

  like I will fall out together and then [TS]

  we'll fly a little bit and that's what [TS]

  I'm saying is the one thing that they [TS]

  kept about collision detection is that [TS]

  you can't even mess with people by [TS]

  running into them you run into them and [TS]

  you refill their energy right yeah and [TS]

  so it it fosters a certain intimacy that [TS]

  it more or the illusion thereof even if [TS]

  the person's ago walking into you and [TS]

  will continue its helping you and that's [TS]

  Sookie and in those snowy levels we are [TS]

  huddled next to each other going up in [TS]

  that cold snowy mountain and that's the [TS]

  only thing that's keeping your scarves [TS]

  from completely going out and actually [TS]

  reminded me of ego which I have to [TS]

  consciously not pronounced I go in my [TS]

  head in that it's a game so much about [TS]

  hand-holding you know even though they [TS]

  don't really have hands in this game [TS]

  it's a game about establishing a [TS]

  connection through close contact with [TS]

  other characters and that's why I think [TS]

  like that's what i was saying to say so [TS]

  while free because such an important [TS]

  aspect of this game in terms of the [TS]

  spoilers is again similar to ego the [TS]

  comparison using ego is that an eco you [TS]

  fight these shadowy things with the [TS]

  stick right and since its and not [TS]

  everything is in the game world there [TS]

  are no health meters there are no hit [TS]

  points there is no glowing items there's [TS]

  no glowing red when you take damage you [TS]

  have no idea if you can die [TS]

  what would cause you to die how many [TS]

  hits it takes to kill an enemy like just [TS]

  like you know and it in this type in [TS]

  journey [TS]

  you don't know what what happens if I [TS]

  get eaten by a dragon do i do I die [TS]

  what happens at my little thing freezes [TS]

  i do have to start the like there is [TS]

  that part of the game were like this a [TS]

  game system you have a number of lives [TS]

  you know what's going to happen you have [TS]

  no idea what's going to have [TS]

  so you're terrified that like if that if [TS]

  the dragon spots like the whole game is [TS]

  over i just played this for an hour and [TS]

  a half we been on this journey together [TS]

  and I like that because it's it defies [TS]

  gaming conventions of being cynical I [TS]

  got three lives left as a 1-up mushroom [TS]

  around the corner so not to worry about [TS]

  that i can do this life here i'll do a [TS]

  quick save and then i'll hit kill this [TS]

  enemy and like nothing like that and [TS]

  that tension of not knowing in fact not [TS]

  knowing how the game ends like what is [TS]

  the endgame of this game [TS]

  am i doing something wrong by trudging [TS]

  up this mountain my whole friggin scarf [TS]

  is gone my things are freezing to death [TS]

  tonight what have I done wrong by UNM I [TS]

  think it was the worst because when I [TS]

  let down my partner he separated a [TS]

  little bit from me like I was behind him [TS]

  but he was like he would wait for me but [TS]

  it was kinda like a tell he was annoying [TS]

  like up so-and-so walk up the hill [TS]

  together he was like three two steps [TS]

  ahead I'm like maybe if we had been [TS]

  closer to each other and hold huddle for [TS]

  warmth more like we had before we [TS]

  wouldn't be freezing to death now that [TS]

  not knowing and that defying of [TS]

  conventions is so important to it i [TS]

  think that it makes the deeply [TS]

  experienced this plant playing this game [TS]

  so unique as compared to all I know [TS]

  what's gonna happen now I know all the [TS]

  game systems now I know how this game [TS]

  plays out i know you know it's still fun [TS]

  and those things but that that was a [TS]

  unique experience for me especially with [TS]

  the multiplayer aspect that first spooky [TS]

  dragon when you're in the kind of like [TS]

  20 miles under there and you know having [TS]

  not seem like an enemy and not taking [TS]

  help and like it spotted me and it light [TS]

  it up and it's lunging at me and it [TS]

  grabs me and I just assumed the game is [TS]

  over here [TS]

  I'm done there's not there's not coming [TS]

  back from this I have to start over to [TS]

  walk through the desert again can you [TS]

  survive and you're like oh yeah and then [TS]

  you look at you think [TS]

  no my scarf know how long it took me to [TS]

  get that cigar Pia and make them make [TS]

  the snapping sound with the animation [TS]

  but there is that there is a moment of [TS]

  like I mean when those things come to [TS]

  life for the first time and you see them [TS]

  did you not feel that like immediate and [TS]

  ate like I gotta get out the white like [TS]

  I gotta not get spite like I was up on [TS]

  the sides behind the pillars time like [TS]

  every time they come by like huddled [TS]

  behind a pillar pillar and wait for it [TS]

  to go past and like start around the [TS]

  side just feel like i don't know i don't [TS]

  get spotted until like on the snow like [TS]

  going through those little parts on the [TS]

  snow level but like can I at that point [TS]

  I was like maybe maybe you can't get her [TS]

  butt [TS]

  I learned that lesson the music helps [TS]

  helps a lot to write that the musical [TS]

  cues when the dragon appears right are [TS]

  our it's amazing how why we are for [TS]

  things like musical cues from from [TS]

  movies and TV and for me that was that [TS]

  moment where you know the dragon is [TS]

  spotted in the musical cue comes in and [TS]

  then it's like Hello and it was really [TS]

  scary it's like there's a little bit of [TS]

  a bass rumble and there's scary music [TS]

  and that's this cute of Hyde basically [TS]

  and I didn't I did what I was told i ran [TS]

  away and hid yeah not enough good can be [TS]

  said about the music in this game [TS]

  I mean really the to meet ya biggest [TS]

  positive of this entire game was the way [TS]

  the music kind of swells and fades in [TS]

  the disparately cinematic way with the [TS]

  action that that said i was i was really [TS]

  shocked at the end when you get to the [TS]

  very end you know and it burst into any [TS]

  way you want it like that just did not [TS]

  see that coming [TS]

  I really felt wheel in the sky was the [TS]

  most appropriate choice there and they [TS]

  didn't go that way the guy who did this [TS]

  music [TS]

  Austin wintry when i saw it w int 0 ry [TS]

  like I said I knew he was the composer i [TS]

  bought the soundtrack shortly after [TS]

  playing the game I like video game music [TS]

  so no one's gonna buy it and I was [TS]

  picturing him as a as a gray-haired old [TS]

  Japanese man [TS]

  well guess what he's just some dude he's [TS]

  like he's like he's like our age I saw [TS]

  III was a video thing that comes to the [TS]

  makers of I know Jenova Chen ride to [TS]

  I've known him for a while right so come [TS]

  see the makers of journey like wow I'm [TS]

  going to interview with this guy and you [TS]

  see a guy who looks like you know it [TS]

  looks like us and it just amazes me that [TS]

  guy it composed this music this is [TS]

  beautiful and that brings up the other [TS]

  part of the game that i found [TS]

  interesting especially now that i played [TS]

  through it many many times and have my [TS]

  beautiful white robes and my group of [TS]

  patterns and all this wonderful stuff is [TS]

  that to do a thing like this is one of [TS]

  the complaints from like traditional [TS]

  game people like oh this game is linear [TS]

  like it takes you through a linear [TS]

  series of things that and it's not does [TS]

  not like branching paths it's not really [TS]

  a hub world until you played it to the [TS]

  first time you know it's it's linear [TS]

  short whatever I they're trying to take [TS]

  you through a series of events and [TS]

  they've tune the game I think amazingly [TS]

  well for basically for me for someone [TS]

  who has played a lot of video games [TS]

  because the music does change when [TS]

  different things happen but its paste 82 [TS]

  exactly line up the cues with how long [TS]

  will take [TS]

  to get from point A to point B how long [TS]

  will it take you to do this next thing [TS]

  what mood will you be in what will you [TS]

  walk towards when the first dragon pops [TS]

  up out of the sand the very first one [TS]

  like they it's almost like they're [TS]

  precognitive they know exactly the way [TS]

  I'm going to do it and the time is going [TS]

  to be perfect and i know this because [TS]

  having played through the game many many [TS]

  times at this point once you become so [TS]

  familiar with the game that you are not [TS]

  playing it like a first second or third [TS]

  time player you are sort of zipping [TS]

  through it a little bit faster or just [TS]

  trying to get to the next thing to look [TS]

  for somebody to help or something like [TS]

  that you will run ahead of the cues and [TS]

  it will not fit together as well and [TS]

  when I saw Adam I was yet it's possible [TS]

  but you know but the thing is they do it [TS]

  so well for the first second and third [TS]

  playthrough of like how you would [TS]

  naturally play the game that it just [TS]

  feels magical like you form that bridge [TS]

  you get up on the bridge in this [TS]

  different music when you start gliding [TS]

  over the ridge well when i'm on top of [TS]

  these red things like glide right i [TS]

  right up to the very ending part with [TS]

  that whole musical that we started the [TS]

  ending in a bit like oh yes you can run [TS]

  ahead of all those cues or behind them [TS]

  and it doesn't quite fit together [TS]

  seamlessly but you don't notice that the [TS]

  first time you playing through because [TS]

  it's just perfect it's like it's like [TS]

  there's a guy there watching you going [TS]

  and cue the dragon and you know it's [TS]

  like it's like The Truman Show like the [TS]

  entire world is being orchestrated for [TS]

  your benefit and linear or not it's the [TS]

  most amazing orchestration of events [TS]

  that exactly predicted what i would do [TS]

  and what mood i would be in right down [TS]

  to like the little that the level where [TS]

  you climb the big tower and they had the [TS]

  cutscene where they show you the mural [TS]

  in a big circle remember that Parton [TS]

  right so in that part they show you when [TS]

  they show you the mural like here you [TS]

  are in the beginning level and hey [TS]

  remember when you to this level and [TS]

  remember too that they haven't the [TS]

  musical cue setup and if you are with a [TS]

  companion on that level it shows two [TS]

  little figures and if you're by yourself [TS]

  it shows one and since I waited awhile [TS]

  to get my companion that the thing was [TS]

  here you are in the beginning and here [TS]

  you were wandering through the desert [TS]

  and you went over the bridges and i like [TS]

  the music he was like and then you found [TS]

  a companion and they have the extra [TS]

  musical cue for now you're with somebody [TS]

  in the two of you go together with it [TS]

  you couldn't have scripted it better and [TS]

  like that was all of my own creation of [TS]

  when I decided to go along with a [TS]

  companion and how the music fit into [TS]

  that it's unbelievable to me [TS]

  yeah it's aight i'm with you John I I i [TS]

  was amazed [TS]

  is that how the score not only was it [TS]

  beautiful but it fit with everything [TS]

  that was that was going on and it really [TS]

  helped make the experience on one with [TS]

  the visuals i'll say the the desert and [TS]

  the snow it is and actually the [TS]

  character I learned to very rapidly I [TS]

  learned to love the little robed guys [TS]

  with a little eyes that you can see and [TS]

  and the even the little inanimate you [TS]

  know whatever you want to call carpets [TS]

  or whatever offer dolphin guys this [TS]

  weekend you come free my friends the big [TS]

  whale one and the movie tell you know [TS]

  that you ride and then the jellyfish and [TS]

  yeah the flying the flying carpet [TS]

  creatures yeah they're so I mean eight [TS]

  and they managed to take this very [TS]

  simple building block and turn it into [TS]

  many different things that all were [TS]

  instantly recognizable as different [TS]

  sorts of creatures despite being made on [TS]

  the carpet of the same nature and that [TS]

  was fasting and I loved the stuff with [TS]

  the murals at the end of every level [TS]

  because I kept looking at the art and [TS]

  thinking wow this is so it reminded me [TS]

  in some ways of like a couple Native [TS]

  American pieces that like my parents had [TS]

  when I was a kid because it's got that [TS]

  sort of almost geometric at times like [TS]

  squared-off step style and but it wasn't [TS]

  quite it was still this this entirely [TS]

  and unique thing that wasn't quite of [TS]

  anything that I know in the real world [TS]

  and yet was still familiar in some way [TS]

  when every game design when you're [TS]

  making a video game especially like it [TS]

  on indie game their first party sony [TS]

  company right but when you're making one [TS]

  of these small art type games you don't [TS]

  have the budget of like call duty or you [TS]

  know you don't have millions and [TS]

  millions of dollars right so you have to [TS]

  decide where to spend your money co does [TS]

  the exact same thing here at these these [TS]

  things like silver led by a single [TS]

  artistic vision in this case Jenova Chen [TS]

  with a limited budget they have to [TS]

  decide all right what are we going to [TS]

  spend our money on and one journey spent [TS]

  money on it spent his money on sand they [TS]

  just you know when not to figure out how [TS]

  to sand how to make it look awesome how [TS]

  to make it look 20 different ways you [TS]

  know great and everything that and [TS]

  fabric and then lighting so three things [TS]

  and fabric in lighting and that's you [TS]

  know they put all their money and all [TS]

  the technology behind those few things [TS]

  and it's really not that much else in [TS]

  this game in terms of technology but it [TS]

  shows what an incredible effect you can [TS]

  have by deciding what's important for [TS]

  your vision and then funneling every [TS]

  resource you have into that equaled it [TS]

  was lighting on [TS]

  playstation 2i it makes it makes a big [TS]

  difference versus saying what we got [TS]

  have tons of enemies and we gotta have [TS]

  this thing's gonna have that you just [TS]

  you just spend your time and energy in [TS]

  the right places [TS]

  I it can pay off big what I find so [TS]

  amazing about that and yet also [TS]

  potentially tragic it was particularly [TS]

  when I was walking up that snowy hill at [TS]

  with with some other character beside me [TS]

  and seeing the little flakes of frost [TS]

  form on my characters rowboat and seeing [TS]

  them digging a trench through the snow [TS]

  as they walked in just admiring all the [TS]

  visual effects of it was thinking to [TS]

  myself this is a game that will really [TS]

  hold up you know like when I when I went [TS]

  back to play ninja gaiden on nintendo [TS]

  entertainment system after decades right [TS]

  that there's the the scene where I stand [TS]

  at the top of a cliff looking out over [TS]

  the jungle of this castle stone in the [TS]

  distance that was epic when I was a [TS]

  little kid and I'll go back and play it [TS]

  now and I'm just like this this impress [TS]

  the hell out of me but I could see [TS]

  myself coming back to this game years [TS]

  later and thinking this still is just as [TS]

  gorgeous as it was the day that I first [TS]

  played its really excellent what I find [TS]

  potentially tragic about that is that [TS]

  this game will only last in the form [TS]

  that it does for as long as there's [TS]

  still the technology for you to meet [TS]

  other players on it you know like Dark [TS]

  Souls and demon souls demon souls is [TS]

  another PlayStation game that you know a [TS]

  lot of the sort of anonymous [TS]

  interactions with other players and you [TS]

  will die here [TS]

  yeah i mean the sum of the wasn't a [TS]

  message is written on the ground so it [TS]

  was just random people invading you or [TS]

  jumping in to help you out and you [TS]

  couldn't communicate with them verbally [TS]

  but they would bow to you and there's a [TS]

  whole system of gestures the fascinating [TS]

  thing and then they shut down the [TS]

  multiplayer servers so now you can only [TS]

  play demon's soul single-player there's [TS]

  dark souls but it kind of makes me [TS]

  wonder I don't exactly know what what [TS]

  hosting technique they're using for [TS]

  journey but it kind of struck me as I [TS]

  was walking up that hill like this is so [TS]

  gorgeous i want to play this again and [TS]

  again and again I wonder if when I'm [TS]

  gonna lose the ability to actually walk [TS]

  up to hell with somebody else will the [TS]

  ps4 or whatever that is next obviate [TS]

  this and and turn it into sort of an [TS]

  ephemeral experience I felt the same way [TS]

  about you guys playing months after came [TS]

  out like all they're never gonna get the [TS]

  experience when we are all stumpy little [TS]

  red shirts like we're not us [TS]

  that pattern on shore little scarves [TS]

  like we used to have like and in my [TS]

  first playthrough at a certain point my [TS]

  partner and i were saw a glowing symbol [TS]

  but we couldn't get to it because our [TS]

  things for to stumpy because we hadn't [TS]

  been collecting and we were trying to [TS]

  sing to each other and jump [TS]

  simultaneously like 123 like because [TS]

  when you're talking about whether you [TS]

  stay charged yeah sorts of its much you [TS]

  know much harder he must have been a [TS]

  game or two because we're like at this [TS]

  point in the game like we know we need [TS]

  to get longer scarves because the [TS]

  challenges are actually getting a little [TS]

  more challenge let's work together to do [TS]

  it but how the hell do you communicate [TS]

  that with the circle button and like [TS]

  that experience that's not gonna happen [TS]

  again because even like at this point [TS]

  you go through there's always some good [TS]

  with a scarf you know 20 miles long [TS]

  hanging around and the white robes are [TS]

  hanging around that's a different [TS]

  experience [TS]

  I'm Molly idea i mean i think it and it [TS]

  took me a really long time even figure [TS]

  out that scars could get longer and [TS]

  again you too [TS]

  I don't know if indicated like you [TS]

  suggested all I i actually all of my [TS]

  companions I had a longer scarf so yeah [TS]

  I get for a while until i got eaten by [TS]

  dre it i think it's mixing up now [TS]

  because I just played one more game [TS]

  before coming on here and I played as a [TS]

  white robe and you get treated [TS]

  differently as a white robe especially [TS]

  my other by their white robes because in [TS]

  general if you see some of the white [TS]

  robe you know you're probably the arocs [TS]

  trying to help a newbie out but I just [TS]

  met other white robes and we hung out [TS]

  and like talked with our little circle [TS]

  button a little bit but we were all like [TS]

  we're waiting for some from retro to [TS]

  come in to help us out and it ever was [TS]

  like hey doing yet what you know like [TS]

  we're there to help the other guys there [TS]

  weren't many other guys and you're on [TS]

  your coffee break you're standing on the [TS]

  water coolers hanging out jumping and [TS]

  singing waiting for the noobs the white [TS]

  robes are there they're scarf recharges [TS]

  as soon as I touch the ground so you [TS]

  don't have to [TS]

  who's the new guy the reason i thought [TS]

  there wasn't getting is because I ran [TS]

  into one of those white white robes in [TS]

  my second game [TS]

  yeah well the guys they get the [TS]

  Companions I ran into most of the time [TS]

  we had like a little bit around like the [TS]

  hem of their garment like a little bit [TS]

  yellow like and and I couldn't inform me [TS]

  that means one playthrough is right and [TS]

  i wondered for a while whether it meant [TS]

  oh that's just there to totally [TS]

  distinguish because i never saw anybody [TS]

  wearing the same robe is music oh maybe [TS]

  that's just the other player and how [TS]

  they show [TS]

  up whenever they come in but it was such [TS]

  a weird like difference of I felt the [TS]

  relationships kept shifting and part of [TS]

  that was you know it was different [TS]

  people over time but also sometimes [TS]

  would be like oh we're kind of working [TS]

  together and and sometimes it would be [TS]

  more like oh you're doing a thing over [TS]

  there you know what I'm gonna skin to [TS]

  keep going and see what happens but the [TS]

  the end and I think we sort of it's been [TS]

  alluded to a couple times when you're [TS]

  climbing up the mountain [TS]

  I there was a guy just a little bit [TS]

  ahead of me and I was trying to catch up [TS]

  with him thinking oh man i can get warm [TS]

  i can warm them up i can get really [TS]

  close to them and then I saw him like [TS]

  fall down to his knees [TS]

  no get up get up and then I got up there [TS]

  and I'm like trying to like warm them up [TS]

  and then I fall down like now go get out [TS]

  what did you what did you think at that [TS]

  point I was trying was so that I thought [TS]

  we both die on Twitter one of our one of [TS]

  our listeners Steve block said having a [TS]

  companion struggle with me through the [TS]

  snow was I think one of the most [TS]

  important things about journey and I [TS]

  agree that that was an incredibly [TS]

  memorable thing that it wasn't just me [TS]

  on that mountain that sheer Mountain [TS]

  cliff that there was this guy who is [TS]

  struggling right by right by my select [TS]

  and then and then he went to his knees [TS]

  and fell into the snow and then so did I [TS]

  and it was very sad [TS]

  I did it by myself I must let my [TS]

  companion down you know it'sit's but [TS]

  it's very different there could have [TS]

  been someone right behind you [TS]

  I kept looking behind I told you every [TS]

  time I was alone I would turn and I [TS]

  would you know it's like are they there [TS]

  if I can see them all wait for them died [TS]

  alone about of the man I kept looking [TS]

  behind my shoulder and there was no one [TS]

  there when i dropped into the snow i [TS]

  thought to myself God if only that guy [TS]

  who failed way back there in the [TS]

  underground passages had survived to [TS]

  this point he could have worn my ass up [TS]

  but no no no I'm falling to my face in [TS]

  the snow because that other guy was so [TS]

  utterly incompetent [TS]

  so did you all think that was the end of [TS]

  the game and you have failed you died [TS]

  there was a moment i live at that same [TS]

  time I was also like yeah they're not [TS]

  going to end like that but there was a [TS]

  moment of like what I wonder if this [TS]

  could have been done better [TS]

  my gamer instincts were already telling [TS]

  me gotten where's the last save so i can [TS]

  go back and end this is definitely is [TS]

  this is going to count against my [TS]

  achievement [TS]

  is there can be there can be going in [TS]

  with gamer convention and there can be [TS]

  like having too much of them like I [TS]

  don't like the fact that achievement [TS]

  things would appear on the screen i had [TS]

  in the HD re-release of ecology plan to [TS]

  disable them because i think it takes [TS]

  you out of the game because there's [TS]

  nothing like that in eco and journey the [TS]

  same type of thing but like oh speaking [TS]

  of game conventions that getting back [TS]

  way back to the beginning to me this [TS]

  game was screaming its conventions that [TS]

  you but in gamer language like it would [TS]

  be a you-know-what first takes you to [TS]

  that person is press the X button right [TS]

  that's pretty much screaming as far as [TS]

  this game is concerned text appeared on [TS]

  the screen not text was like I was doing [TS]

  just showed the controller with X right [TS]

  and then it you can control the camera [TS]

  because it is a cutscene you walk into [TS]

  the little circle you press the button [TS]

  it shows your little scarf growing it [TS]

  shows little things lighting up on like [TS]

  it's trying to communicate your scarf X [TS]

  button yellowing symbols press button [TS]

  symbol like it is screaming the system [TS]

  yet people way through almost the entire [TS]

  game and not realize you have symbols [TS]

  they glow when you press X button that [TS]

  depletes then when you get a blowy ruin [TS]

  simple your scarf it's longer like that [TS]

  the fact that people can play this game [TS]

  and not get that is crazy to me but it [TS]

  just shows that like no matter how much [TS]

  you get hit over the head with something [TS]

  sometimes he was like the beginning of [TS]

  the Godfather I believe in America right [TS]

  and people watch the movie and like have [TS]

  no idea what they were getting it right [TS]

  the first mind the movie there's nothing [TS]

  on the screen is black the glowing [TS]

  symbols are easy to pick up i picked [TS]

  that up immediately but the long long [TS]

  scarf I don't think took a little while [TS]

  zoomed in on it a bit or something but [TS]

  it was not highlighted enough to me that [TS]

  I even picked up on the first [TS]

  playthrough I didn't even realize until [TS]

  the second that there were guys walking [TS]

  around with scarves that ran in fact you [TS]

  know what the achievement i think was [TS]

  the thing that tipped me off to it [TS]

  because there's a achievement that is [TS]

  get through the underground tunnel [TS]

  without getting your scarf or i might to [TS]

  this very day not even realize how small [TS]

  and inconsequential my little scarf is [TS]

  no i mean like this things like that [TS]

  every level so for example the pattern [TS]

  going up the hem of your thing that is [TS]

  much more subtle but in general the game [TS]

  communicates to you visually like a [TS]

  movie would like so when the first [TS]

  little dolphin thing as i call them you [TS]

  free them like the game communicates you [TS]

  with camera moves and the animation [TS]

  saying hey follow me [TS]

  these guys will take you somewhere maybe [TS]

  you should follow them if and it and [TS]

  if if you're tuned to like because they [TS]

  really you think you have total camera [TS]

  control but you don't again playing [TS]

  through this game many many times [TS]

  I'm like had hey i wanna i want to turn [TS]

  the camera sometimes it won't even let [TS]

  you turn the i'm on the reverse [TS]

  directing it totally controlled you can [TS]

  because it wants to show you things now [TS]

  you don't notice this till the 5th [TS]

  playthrough when you decide along and [TS]

  explore i want to turn the camera [TS]

  completely around like for example that [TS]

  scene where I don't know how much this [TS]

  is another thing is that this happened [TS]

  to everybody else in the underground [TS]

  thing when the last section of the [TS]

  underground you can't go to the sides [TS]

  like you have to go through this little [TS]

  gauntlet of dragons and eventually goes [TS]

  into a long downhill and you go into the [TS]

  big glowy region there's pretty much no [TS]

  way right to avoid getting spotted the [TS]

  way this played out the first and second [TS]

  time i played it was alright we just got [TS]

  to go for it with my companion [TS]

  alright let's just go and we just go in [TS]

  the dragon spot you and the chasing you [TS]

  right behind you going as fast as you [TS]

  can and it's downhill so even if you [TS]

  have no scarf juice left to do your [TS]

  flying thing like I it'll be quite a [TS]

  pursuit and then the Dragons will hit [TS]

  the big glowing wall magic and be [TS]

  repelled and you will make it through [TS]

  and slide thru the triumphal music and [TS]

  everything like that I if you play [TS]

  through later and don't do that and try [TS]

  to turn back and go back up the hill [TS]

  you can't walk back up the hill you [TS]

  can't turn the camera around like it you [TS]

  see you start to see the way they're [TS]

  fencing you in up but you would never [TS]

  notice that the first playthrough [TS]

  because you're like oh my god dragons [TS]

  dragon dragon during the run it's kind [TS]

  of like you know like seeing a movie and [TS]

  then being able to turn the camera a [TS]

  little bit and see that these these sets [TS]

  are not real houses and as you know [TS]

  things behind them [TS]

  well yeah at the same time there were [TS]

  times where it's like there's that one [TS]

  level in the sand where you slide down [TS]

  the really long corridor you're looking [TS]

  out at the city through the pillars and [TS]

  that was like was like my concerts times [TS]

  we doing I'm just put into it [TS]

  just enjoy the view I wanted to like get [TS]

  off the ride and see that stuff and [TS]

  right but at the same time I love that [TS]

  throws in things that are like that [TS]

  almost seemed game like like when you're [TS]

  slowing down the hill there's a little [TS]

  like gates you can slow through and it's [TS]

  like you don't have that you don't have [TS]

  to go through them right but you don't [TS]

  have to wait like you kind of want to [TS]

  like oh I'm gonna aim for all these [TS]

  things and I'm like I made for 30 then I [TS]

  hit a rock by the way down if you want a [TS]

  hundred percent the game you have to go [TS]

  through the know you're rewarded for [TS]

  going through them with with bursts of [TS]

  speed and achievements stuff but that [TS]

  that's second to talk about what goes [TS]

  into side view I just felt good to [TS]

  anybody goes in the side [TS]

  viewing the Sun is blowing through those [TS]

  pills and everything like that oh that's [TS]

  fantastic [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  i love the fact that i had been taken to [TS]

  a point about that point in the game [TS]

  that i did not have that gamer feeling [TS]

  of like maybe i can stop here maybe [TS]

  something had no like I the first [TS]

  playthrough I was not looking for a [TS]

  hundred percent ruin completion and by [TS]

  that point in the game they had totally [TS]

  got me to the point where it didn't even [TS]

  occur to me to do anything ever sit back [TS]

  and enjoy how awesome this game is like [TS]

  I jumped that was like jumping look I'm [TS]

  flying to it was just beautiful and [TS]

  amazing yeah you just want to rock and [TS]

  it's very difficult for a game to take a [TS]

  long time gamer out of the game of mind [TS]

  set up like I bet if I stopped here [TS]

  there's probably some secret behind the [TS]

  pillar right or something like that to [TS]

  take you completely out of that and into [TS]

  i'm just going to enjoy this the same [TS]

  one you enjoy beautiful even better [TS]

  because you're making it happen that was [TS]

  that in many other moments just magical [TS]

  this game very different friend again [TS]

  well there's just some sheer beauty I [TS]

  mean there's at least one point where [TS]

  you come in and like you know the sand [TS]

  is like glowing like a golden ocean and [TS]

  it's just there is there are couple [TS]

  breathtaking moments in terms of just [TS]

  the aesthetics of the moment where the [TS]

  big gigantic underground room suddenly [TS]

  transforms itself into an ocean and [TS]

  you're swimming up ya supposed to [TS]

  jumping that's that pretty amazed and [TS]

  subtle but well done [TS]

  yeah it's rewarding you with like at [TS]

  that point especially if you just play [TS]

  the game you spend a lot of time as a [TS]

  guy with a stumpy scarf who can't jump [TS]

  that much now like you're in the flowing [TS]

  liquid that complete charges you up like [TS]

  infinitely when you're in the stuff so [TS]

  now you can't like I can't follow us [TS]

  some of the king of the world and now [TS]

  you can fly and then you get to ride in [TS]

  a big whale thing it's like just it's [TS]

  amazing because they've they've trained [TS]

  you and what the constraints of the [TS]

  world are and then like now they slowly [TS]

  remove them and that that that actually [TS]

  brings up the final thing after my first [TS]

  I want to ask everybody did it did [TS]

  anybody actually think the game was over [TS]

  when I fell down in the snow [TS]

  I did I i think i was gonna go to some [TS]

  cutscenes and there'd be you know [TS]

  something would happen when they crossed [TS]

  my mind but it seems too perfect I mean [TS]

  for a game called journey [TS]

  it seemed to perfect moment for like it [TS]

  can't get any worse therefore it must [TS]

  get better next right the narrative arc [TS]

  yeah I was prepared for something that [TS]

  would break the narrative arc so forth [TS]

  but from a from a movie watchers [TS]

  perspective if I think about the [TS]

  narrative of this of this game and it [TS]

  was I mean beautiful with the music it [TS]

  felt like a great a lost a dino animated [TS]

  film in [TS]

  where it's like wow this is ma I was [TS]

  engrossed in it the ending because you [TS]

  you seem to die and then you end up [TS]

  being basically judged by the gods and [TS]

  they're like well you tried really hard [TS]

  here you go you gotta really have kids [TS]

  you got a long scarf you can get to the [TS]

  top now and you get to the top and then [TS]

  you're like sent back to the beginning [TS]

  and and my wife and I were talking about [TS]

  this today how how you can view it that [TS]

  way but you know I always viewed it is [TS]

  as you know you went on the journey and [TS]

  you died and you did died you died and [TS]

  you're dead [TS]

  I thought I thought that might be it [TS]

  that was afterlife yeah you have your [TS]

  near-death hallucination which is like [TS]

  you can do anything and you can go to [TS]

  the top and that's fine and then you're [TS]

  reincarnated back down at the bottom of [TS]

  the hill so I viewed it as you you die [TS]

  in the snow and that's your journey is [TS]

  you [TS]

  it leads you to die house know with me [TS]

  and you get your moment in paradise [TS]

  before you move on ya gameplay [TS]

  perspective though what it does to you [TS]

  is that of course you know if you'd gone [TS]

  to the snow level and you're with you if [TS]

  if you're with somebody you and your [TS]

  huddling up against the wind and you're [TS]

  trying not to get blown back on the [TS]

  stairs and you're hiding from the dragon [TS]

  you tried the mountain at this point I [TS]

  was so I so wanted to get to that [TS]

  glowing top of the mountain oh yeah no [TS]

  yeah no kidding they're showing you like [TS]

  see this big long mountain bike is [TS]

  another thing like i guess i could get [TS]

  there about a communication you know [TS]

  some people see this game and not [TS]

  understand what the goal is to show you [TS]

  that glowing mountains like go there [TS]

  it's the giant triangle many in seen one [TS]

  seen one you're looking around there's [TS]

  nothing but like something at the top of [TS]

  a hill that's like a rock or something [TS]

  you like I'll go up there and you go up [TS]

  there and as you crest the hill it has [TS]

  the shot and you see them out in the [TS]

  background you like okay got it [TS]

  I mean like it so clear but so I was so [TS]

  motivated to get his journey at that [TS]

  point so I mean it should be pretty [TS]

  clear is offering over the mountain [TS]

  journey here you go around it's just not [TS]

  a narrow down that's the only little and [TS]

  I so wanted to get up that mountain so [TS]

  I'm trying to get up this hill in the [TS]

  snow and everything and I have played [TS]

  enough games that i know this could [TS]

  possibly be the end but the thing about [TS]

  it was that they brought you so low that [TS]

  your scarf food frozen off complete [TS]

  completely gone [TS]

  I blame myself for a lot of this and [TS]

  then that the you know the cutscene [TS]

  where everything is white and you go [TS]

  racing towards the light at that point [TS]

  what you see is the first blue sky in [TS]

  this entire game all the other guys are [TS]

  green or [TS]

  read or different colors blue sky clouds [TS]

  really long scarf and you know [TS]

  triumphant music but this is what i love [TS]

  about this they don't make it an [TS]

  on-rails cutscene you get to enjoy [TS]

  flying through that especially spent the [TS]

  whole game of the stumpy scarf and a [TS]

  little red thing you still must navigate [TS]

  this and it's possible like to mess up [TS]

  and fall down or whatever so you feel [TS]

  like because I didn't mess up and fall [TS]

  down that finally I'm free of the [TS]

  constraints of my life that had all this [TS]

  you know drudgery and work and toil and [TS]

  where I messed up and now i can do no [TS]

  wrong because the skills I developed in [TS]

  the rest of the game i can now you know [TS]

  go through all these things and ride the [TS]

  giant whale and go up the waterfalls and [TS]

  my scarf is infinite and there's all [TS]

  these pools of things that recharge me [TS]

  that you know it was the best reward for [TS]

  you know it's like it's okay you tried [TS]

  your best [TS]

  here is your reward come with you and [TS]

  your companion because my friend was [TS]

  there to like let's come together to the [TS]

  top looks like we you know we tried the [TS]

  best and then here's our [TS]

  best and then here's our [TS]

  like jason said you've been your effort [TS]

  has been judged worthy here's your [TS]

  reward and they don't just give it to [TS]

  you for free [TS]

  you still must now demonstrate all the [TS]

  skills that you've done like you know [TS]

  all the things that you wish you could [TS]

  have done 20 levels ago now you can [TS]

  finally do them in this you know magical [TS]

  Wonderland and then you know it comes [TS]

  down in the end when you get to walk [TS]

  into life together one of the best [TS]

  ending rewards of a game that really [TS]

  made me feel like I accomplished [TS]

  something that could give me closure and [TS]

  all it requires is for me to die and [TS]

  seen before that but you're right it [TS]

  your reward is that you get to have full [TS]

  power after you've been having all these [TS]

  issues with no my scarves not long [TS]

  enough racket and and it's like now you [TS]

  can everybody has that ever you know the [TS]

  link the scarf is what's important I get [TS]

  spam email in time that's going on for [TS]

  longer i know it's amazing but it's so [TS]

  now it's the moments like you you can [TS]

  fly and you not to worry about just fly [TS]

  and bounced around and get and just jump [TS]

  from ledge to ledge and and it's [TS]

  beautiful and fun and and you're flying [TS]

  up to the top of the mountain and it's [TS]

  nice but from a from a story perspective [TS]

  you know yeah you're dead [TS]

  that's mine that's how I read now with [TS]

  the afterlife when you got to the top of [TS]

  this thing where you've gone up the [TS]

  mountain and they said like that final [TS]

  landing area and your scarf once again [TS]

  disappears if I'm not sure you [TS]

  understand that the way through you come [TS]

  to any surface appears did for the [TS]

  people who are with companions did you [TS]

  wait for your companion to go into the [TS]

  lighter to go yourself [TS]

  I tried to make sure that i was going [TS]

  exactly the same speed on my second goes [TS]

  you know that we walked in at the exact [TS]

  same moment I didn't see someone with me [TS]

  but when I got to like there was someone [TS]

  there and then we were like he was just [TS]

  a little bit ahead of me and so I kept [TS]

  trying to catch up to my hey wait wait [TS]

  let's go into the and then we run the [TS]

  light which is kind of weird it is he [TS]

  didn't enter that like you didn't freeze [TS]

  that the people who with people who [TS]

  froze to death with a companion didn't [TS]

  do that you're going up the hill to get [TS]

  out yeah with your guy you both rosyth [TS]

  and did you also go with him through the [TS]

  the reward phase to your final that's no [TS]

  I don't think I know my first time [TS]

  through I lost them somewhere in [TS]

  Paradise and I was just like oh well I [TS]

  guess one of us is getting reincarnated [TS]

  this is my second time through though I [TS]

  you know I sped up to the top and then I [TS]

  thought to myself well maybe I'll wait [TS]

  and see if I can see them and I looked [TS]

  down I saw them there and I just SAT [TS]

  there floating and like this this golden [TS]

  airstream in the sky and I was like this [TS]

  is really pleasant and hung out there [TS]

  for a while until they caught up and [TS]

  then was very very careful to walk [TS]

  through the same speed because it's like [TS]

  I don't want to go alone this time and [TS]

  you can give that mighty bellow like the [TS]

  other thing when your circle button the [TS]

  little thing that gives your little [TS]

  voice when you have no scarf it's just a [TS]

  little poop butt on that level and very [TS]

  long scarf it's like almost like the [TS]

  voice of God expands out to the entire [TS]

  size of the screen [TS]

  it's true there's like a glow that it [TS]

  emanates yeah that's what I like about [TS]

  yeah it's much larger if your scarf is [TS]

  big [TS]

  so to speak yeah not the size matters no [TS]

  we're just talking about scarves [TS]

  yeah I found the ending a little [TS]

  disappointing i have to say [TS]

  I was going to get off get off this putt [TS]

  I know I know I realize I'm I breaking [TS]

  for more doxy but it seems like the plot [TS]

  was going to reveal some sort of [TS]

  profound spiritual statement and perhaps [TS]

  I don't know the journey is the reward [TS]

  state is the Reeve look inside yourself [TS]

  come on [TS]

  but it's a pretty sucky reward because [TS]

  you end up a tiny scarf on the pile of [TS]

  sand again [TS]

  what the what the hell is that size [TS]

  matters not judge me by my size do you [TS]

  the reward is fashion you've got a [TS]

  better hemline now you get to be one of [TS]

  the glowing white guys eventually you [TS]

  start as a as a sad little brown stumpy [TS]

  guy and then you end up is a glowing [TS]

  white guy that's you wow that sounds not [TS]

  good [TS]

  well that's that's part of the thing [TS]

  when the star comes up at the end like [TS]

  you've gone into the light and the [TS]

  little star comes out of the the top of [TS]

  the mountain right and they roll the [TS]

  credits and during the credit rolls [TS]

  what you see is the star going backwards [TS]

  right places you've been at different [TS]

  times a day we write interesting and it [TS]

  slowly eventually becomes becomes night [TS]

  and the best part of that is that [TS]

  there's there's a brown guy on the [TS]

  little bridge across the area [TS]

  whatever you that sees you going by like [TS]

  you feel like you brought hope to that [TS]

  guy right but what happens is that [TS]

  little thing comes back and plops down [TS]

  right where you start which obviously [TS]

  everyone is good you know but that's I [TS]

  think that's the the message of the [TS]

  thing is it did you do you think that [TS]

  was you or did you think that was you as [TS]

  anything like you see something at the [TS]

  beginning right you see the comment or [TS]

  whatever i call it will start thing [TS]

  falling did you assume that was you [TS]

  being reincarnated like when you saw [TS]

  that the NSU just think i'm just an [TS]

  example for the next person that's [TS]

  that's kinda what I felt like an certain [TS]

  extent was like I'm showing the way for [TS]

  someone else [TS]

  no that's definitely you because then [TS]

  you start your next journey immediately [TS]

  thereafter you press the start button [TS]

  again and there you go up the mountain [TS]

  right i did not start my next journey i [TS]

  left the room I i left as well but let's [TS]

  see what during the game when you're [TS]

  playing you can if you look up into the [TS]

  sky in the distance you know when the [TS]

  show the mountain bikes around the [TS]

  desert level mountain still out there is [TS]

  a background plate right little stars [TS]

  will come out of that mountain [TS]

  and they're not just random if you [TS]

  follow them when they come out they will [TS]

  take you to places where they're [TS]

  interesting discovery balls and secrets [TS]

  in the game it's a pretty seamless world [TS]

  they built here but with with the star [TS]

  coming back and landing back in the [TS]

  beginning to think that Dan was [TS]

  referencing that I won't spoil I think [TS]

  that's the only way you can possibly end [TS]

  a game like this is to take it back to [TS]

  the beginning and put it down right [TS]

  where it started and then you're back at [TS]

  the title screen [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  ok I'll accept that but it at the same [TS]

  time I i wanted some sort of explanation [TS]

  of who the hell the tall white guys were [TS]

  it's an NBA team when i get their [TS]

  civilization crumble due to overuse of [TS]

  resources and infighting and but then [TS]

  who were these little brown guys why are [TS]

  they not the tall white guys [TS]

  why do they have to keep walking to the [TS]

  mountain why do they get spewed out [TS]

  immediately thereafter I can be only [TS]

  sing i just want some answers dammit [TS]

  that's all [TS]

  during the whole progression I went [TS]

  through a couple of different [TS]

  interpretations of what was happening [TS]

  like whether this was like there was a [TS]

  point where I was sort of wondering well [TS]

  is this less of a like God like a you [TS]

  know God disciple relationship in [TS]

  somewhere like a you know monk or [TS]

  aesthetics I've thing and more of like a [TS]

  parent-child relationship because I [TS]

  almost felt like those scenes where you [TS]

  where you sit down from the monolith and [TS]

  you meditate and the person appears to I [TS]

  it almost felt it looks like a mother [TS]

  doesn't it yeah exactly almost maternal [TS]

  certainly like you're trying really hard [TS]

  let me help you i'm gonna sort of give [TS]

  you this little push along in that you [TS]

  know you will get to the end and that [TS]

  will be your like a rite of passage [TS]

  essentially that is in that was I kind [TS]

  of went back and forth between that and [TS]

  a more sort of spiritual interpretation [TS]

  the other thing I could come up with was [TS]

  that this was this was punishment for [TS]

  the transgressions of the tall white [TS]

  people that had been converted into [TS]

  small brown people with stumpy scarfs [TS]

  that that had to continue to make this [TS]

  journey over and over again and relive [TS]

  the horrors of their lost civilization [TS]

  because there really wasn't any kind of [TS]

  other additional explanation for that [TS]

  and that was that was the other side of [TS]

  that is that I felt it was more like you [TS]

  were struggling to redeem these [TS]

  following people and your LED in this [TS]

  journey to redeem these people by the [TS]

  spiritual advisors / that's why I like [TS]

  it the various points they show like [TS]

  here like this showing the murals and [TS]

  everything and they show and they're [TS]

  they're red they're not brown that you [TS]

  need to adjust your TV show they show [TS]

  they know this mirror then they show and [TS]

  then a lone figure in red with little [TS]

  glowy heart thing like you are three [TS]

  your heroics in your journey you are [TS]

  attempting to redeem these fallen people [TS]

  through your efforts it's like you know [TS]

  it's I don't want to make the analogy [TS]

  that then I can take him it's very [TS]

  similar to another popular series and [TS]

  you know Joseph Campbell the whole nine [TS]

  yards right [TS]

  but i didn't spend too much time [TS]

  worrying about like a ward of the [TS]

  details of the thing and the plot like [TS]

  that because i was just i sold on the [TS]

  emotional journey and the emotional [TS]

  content i felt like that made a perfect [TS]

  circle and linked right back together [TS]

  and was just a solid beautiful ring and [TS]

  I'd I was again and getting it [TS]

  disengaging the game reports i would [TS]

  disengage from like but who are the red [TS]

  people and with how why did they build [TS]

  these machines and what was their [TS]

  technology based on and why is that [TS]

  fabric is this earth and all these [TS]

  people and is my character [TS]

  male or female all that was gone because [TS]

  it's not important like it's like it [TS]

  it's not really an allegory but like [TS]

  that you know a fantasy Taylor fable [TS]

  because at the end you just realize that [TS]

  you were jealous [TS]

  oh yeah OT me alright well can we at [TS]

  least agree that the people are Auburn [TS]

  other without if you had to pick a [TS]

  primary color on the red but I i admit [TS]

  that i grinned i grinned pretty much ear [TS]

  to ear while I was playing the game it [TS]

  was only after it ended that I was a [TS]

  little bit disappointed and they were [TS]

  they were because i don't want and what [TS]

  was your ending did you go with [TS]

  how long were you with a companion and [TS]

  did you end with them those are personal [TS]

  questions Mike my companion dropped off [TS]

  i think right around the time I entered [TS]

  the snow [TS]

  I for a bit but that doesn't really have [TS]

  any kind of an impact on on on the on [TS]

  the way I viewed the plot which was that [TS]

  I just wanted a little more explanation [TS]

  of of why the tall white civilization [TS]

  had any sort of bearing on that what I [TS]

  was going through and that's that's [TS]

  pretty much it [TS]

  maybe I think the only other problem I [TS]

  had with you can always stay there more [TS]

  ecru ok [TS]

  the only problem I had with the game was [TS]

  that and this is probably just the the [TS]

  gamer in me talking but to me as epic as [TS]

  the game felt like i was experiencing it [TS]

  when i got to the end I felt like it was [TS]

  just a little too short and a little too [TS]

  easy to be truly epic mean it took me [TS]

  maybe an hour and a quarter hour and a [TS]

  half to get through the whole thing and [TS]

  corresponding rate while it lasted but [TS]

  when I got to the end I was like that [TS]

  really wasn't a lot of work you have to [TS]

  think of it from a non gamers [TS]

  perspective because like a first wife [TS]

  why do I have to think of it for my own [TS]

  gamers perspective why can't i have a [TS]

  little bit of difficulty that that I'm [TS]

  not asking for a lot of not asking for [TS]

  you know ghouls and ghosts or something [TS]

  i'm just saying that you need the [TS]

  journey hard mode where you have to like [TS]

  you get hit by dragons over and over [TS]

  again you gotta grind like my graphic [TS]

  you gotta kill that dragon to the [TS]

  beginning yeah you know at the end I [TS]

  just felt like I would have been a lot [TS]

  more satisfied if there had just been [TS]

  some difficulty curve there was not and [TS]

  I mean and the point at which the dragon [TS]

  hit me and there were no repercussions [TS]

  and I at the point i didn't realize that [TS]

  the scarf and shorter scarf it's a big [TS]

  it's a big repercussions if you don't [TS]

  mind a long time building up that scar [TS]

  that's right and I'm I'm not as obsessed [TS]

  with a link with my scarf is John [TS]

  siracusa apparently is so to me it was [TS]

  not a big deal even when I did find that [TS]

  out but that drained all the tension out [TS]

  of the game for me and and again I still [TS]

  loved it as i was playing it's still one [TS]

  of the most remarkable recent gaming [TS]

  experiences I've had [TS]

  but if it had just had a little [TS]

  difficulty to it i think it would have [TS]

  been that much that much better for me [TS]

  to see the linear nature of the game i [TS]

  was talking about the cues and [TS]

  everything lined up it's really [TS]

  difficult to get the cues and everything [TS]

  to line up into a magical seamless [TS]

  experience that the artist intended with [TS]

  you participating in and making it [TS]

  happen if there's any grinding sections [TS]

  if there's had to do stuff over and it [TS]

  is I i agree that it's a very different [TS]

  in many ways less satisfying experience [TS]

  them for example playing zelda game for [TS]

  70 hours and finally finishing it like [TS]

  that is a totally different like you've [TS]

  gone from like a little whelp with with [TS]

  a wooden shield to like mastering this [TS]

  world over the course of such a huge [TS]

  amount of time that is a totally [TS]

  different experience I i think this game [TS]

  as a different type of genre kind of you [TS]

  know it's like journey ego Zelda like [TS]

  that's the continuum or journey is like [TS]

  the smallest bite-sized thing you can [TS]

  have an idea if the emotional experience [TS]

  hadn't paid off me I'll be like me is [TS]

  all right you know there wasn't a [TS]

  challenge didn't engage me in terms of [TS]

  like feeling I've achieved something [TS]

  about being a game but because it sucked [TS]

  me and so much and because i went [TS]

  through that experience land we got out [TS]

  of game mode [TS]

  I appreciate it completely and I end up [TS]

  in hindsight I appreciate the fact that [TS]

  it didn't throw any challenges my way [TS]

  because I think being frustrated not [TS]

  being able to make a jump or something [TS]

  having really any difficulty whatsoever [TS]

  would have changed the experience for me [TS]

  in a way that we're taking away from [TS]

  what I want to get out of the game [TS]

  why would have accepted a longer game [TS]

  two I mean it's just it's it's either [TS]

  some some difficulty which would have [TS]

  drawn it out a little bit just by virtue [TS]

  of having to solve a problem or maybe a [TS]

  little bit i love of greater length as a [TS]

  non-gamer I I viewed it almost as a [TS]

  playable movie where it's about to [TS]

  everybody much it yet i agree and we in [TS]

  there there were problems to be solved [TS]

  but you're right they're not [TS]

  particularly difficult at the same time [TS]

  there's a great advantage to having a [TS]

  game that you don't get to someplace and [TS]

  get stuck and end up having to like look [TS]

  up things on the internet because you're [TS]

  so frustrated and you want to just turn [TS]

  it off because you're so mad and instead [TS]

  you know we had to figure it out but we [TS]

  could fairly quickly move around and [TS]

  figure out how you touch these things [TS]

  and then this thing happens and then you [TS]

  move over there and you know I i can see [TS]

  the the idea that maybe you would want [TS]

  to have it be optionally a little harder [TS]

  to harder to do or go on a little longer [TS]

  but i have to say from the very casual [TS]

  perspective of having a kind of to our [TS]

  it somewhat interactive experience but [TS]

  not like super difficult that that is [TS]

  that's what it was for us and I thought [TS]

  it actually worked out pretty well [TS]

  although we haven't played it again and [TS]

  I I admit I kind of didn't notice things [TS]

  in the game that and I've earned my [TS]

  little yellow him i guess on the bottom [TS]

  of my robe so I should probably play it [TS]

  again i have to say that as a big gamer [TS]

  basically i play a lot of video games i [TS]

  really appreciated it for for not being [TS]

  like all the other games I play it's [TS]

  kind of like the way that I really like [TS]

  comic books but i really appreciate that [TS]

  not every comic book is about [TS]

  superheroes or I really like music I [TS]

  mean I actually thought about lessons [TS]

  like an interactive movie and more like [TS]

  a visual interactive album in a way [TS]

  because it felt like that sort of [TS]

  experience that emotional rollercoaster [TS]

  that you get when you listen to an album [TS]

  that's designed to be an album you know [TS]

  and I I didn't mind that it was short [TS]

  because of that in mind that wasn't [TS]

  challenging because I wouldn't I [TS]

  wouldn't for a game like this i don't [TS]

  think it needs extra challenge any more [TS]

  than a really good album needs extra [TS]

  guitars or extra violins or whatever [TS]

  because it's just that one of many [TS]

  components that go into making a really [TS]

  great aesthetic experience you know it i [TS]

  feel like my time is really valuable and [TS]

  I would love for them to be more really [TS]

  short aesthetically amazing games like [TS]

  this and like portal you know [TS]

  yeah i would like it if you have to [TS]

  trade the two hours that you play [TS]

  journey for two hours of any other game [TS]

  I this journey is the best two hours of [TS]

  game i have ever played if I had traded [TS]

  for a two to get something compete with [TS]

  that I had to say like eko eko is is a [TS]

  better game than journey because it has [TS]

  similar highs but is longer and is more [TS]

  of a you know a challenging game but [TS]

  there's no two hours we go that's good [TS]

  to the two hours of journey and I think [TS]

  interactive movie gets a bad rap is like [TS]

  I was like a bunch of QuickTime events [TS]

  and I playing dragon lair of a laserdisc [TS]

  like that's totally not what journey I [TS]

  don't fact that it can seem like that is [TS]

  because they are straight it so well but [TS]

  if you play it over and over again you [TS]

  start to see where the seams are and you [TS]

  can see how they constructed this thing [TS]

  but the journey the thing about it not [TS]

  being like dragon's lair is that the [TS]

  world here some fashion of gamers [TS]

  they're like oh I'm so glad it and get [TS]

  stuck believe me [TS]

  most of the world cannot finish journey [TS]

  and and would spend this entire time [TS]

  having no idea what the heck to do that [TS]

  this is rewarding us letting us [TS]

  participate in creating art ourselves [TS]

  through the skills that we've acquired [TS]

  by subverting our conventions and making [TS]

  us participate in that way it's not like [TS]

  listening it to an album because we are [TS]

  making it happen to our own choices and [TS]

  our own skills and our own expertise and [TS]

  yet this doesn't maybe stretch our [TS]

  expertise and skills because they're so [TS]

  home from you know again playing [TS]

  explained through every mario game [TS]

  getting you know a hundred percent [TS]

  completion way harder than this game [TS]

  right up and so this is just kind of [TS]

  like take your skills that you have and [TS]

  use them to give yourself a beautiful [TS]

  experiences two hours long and I think [TS]

  the reason we got so many people on this [TS]

  podcast is I can't have you all [TS]

  playthrough twilight princess would net [TS]

  you would never you know finished take [TS]

  forever right but we can all play it to [TS]

  our game and that's the thing i love [TS]

  about this game as I can take it to [TS]

  people and say you want to watch a movie [TS]

  or two hours we'll have a game and you [TS]

  can finish the whole game in two hours [TS]

  and this hopefully will show you [TS]

  something of gaming that you can it will [TS]

  help you to understand why people like [TS]

  video games right i really wanted to sit [TS]

  down with my wife and and play this are [TS]

  at least have her plate and watching she [TS]

  did it because I she's not a gamer she's [TS]

  not a geek she's not somebody who does [TS]

  much at all gaming wise other than mock [TS]

  me for being a gamer and so you got to [TS]

  do with Steve it'll strengthen your [TS]

  marriage i'm saying i guess my guarantee [TS]

  this is the perfect example I think of [TS]

  of it is kind of a bite-sized example of [TS]

  why i am a gamer and why I find certain [TS]

  things like the longer games like that [TS]

  the Zelda's and the more wins to be as [TS]

  compelling as they are and this is just [TS]

  kind of a tiny little microcosm of of [TS]

  the sort of feeling I get playing a [TS]

  truly epic game and and so I really [TS]

  appreciate it for being that it's a poem [TS]

  not a novel i wish there were more games [TS]

  that were this length though I honestly [TS]

  as somebody who doesn't play a lot of [TS]

  games [TS]

  I you know we will get I've got some mac [TS]

  games and I've got the we have a wii for [TS]

  the kids and the kids loved it but these [TS]

  games that that are I can't tell you how [TS]

  many games i bought over the years that [TS]

  I've never even come close to finish not [TS]

  because i can't play them but because [TS]

  I'm never gonna invest 30 hours in a [TS]

  game just never i'm never gonna do it I [TS]

  it would take I mean I finished portal [TS]

  i'm trying to think of what what long [TS]

  linear game i finished before that [TS]

  marathon to mean it long ago right but [TS]

  two hours or or even something like four [TS]

  hours but but you know the idea that I [TS]

  could because john told me I could sit [TS]

  down for an evening with a game like I [TS]

  would do with a movie and not feel like [TS]

  what am I getting myself into I'm gonna [TS]

  you know have to fit through 15 20 40 [TS]

  hours at it [TS]

  that was a great feeling and I wish [TS]

  there was more of that I wish there was [TS]

  more of you know i'm not making a [TS]

  lifetime commitment here i'm committing [TS]

  like I would be to renting a movie i [TS]

  think the length is perfect i mean i [TS]

  think unfortunately a lot of games that [TS]

  sell for full price in a fifty or sixty [TS]

  dollars [TS]

  um you see games they're like padded [TS]

  right like they need to be 10 hours and [TS]

  there's not 10 hours of good and you [TS]

  gotta backtrack through the level and [TS]

  collect the bulletin [TS]

  I think right zelda winwaker was the one [TS]

  that like basically offended [TS]

  at that level i means LOL winwaker is [TS]

  really good how you know how dare you [TS]

  but there's like there's like four hours [TS]

  of riding your boat back and forth in [TS]

  order to make it a 10 hour game could [TS]

  have a whole other show about winwaker I [TS]

  like that other six hours is great they [TS]

  should've they should've made that first [TS]

  lesson not so many boat rides I i like [TS]

  the boats the ocean looks great but you [TS]

  spend you spend twenty-five percent of [TS]

  your time riding around in a boat right [TS]

  that's a cool boat gonna but it's not [TS]

  for our school is not to journey school [TS]

  I'd actually just like to apologize to [TS]

  anybody who actually listens to this [TS]

  whole podcast despite the disclaimer at [TS]

  the beginning and is now like we should [TS]

  play this tourney game for everyone did [TS]

  four years [TS]

  no it's still good Jason it's still good [TS]

  it's still good but I feel like so much [TS]

  of an joy of discovery so sorry you mean [TS]

  the time you spent wasting your life [TS]

  listening to this podcast you could have [TS]

  played put all the plaster falls at John [TS]

  do you have any final thoughts before we [TS]

  wrap up our conversation about journey [TS]

  did we did we meet your expectations as [TS]

  fellow participants fellow travelers in [TS]

  this journey I think we had a good range [TS]

  of experiences it may be what would help [TS]

  us have one actual non-gamer in the mix [TS]

  bigger on I gotta say I'm really close [TS]

  to that would happen if you did it if [TS]

  you didn't you don't understand the [TS]

  range of the spectrum here like I had my [TS]

  wife played and she is more of a [TS]

  non-gamer and that they're like I said [TS]

  there are people who can literally can [TS]

  write finish this game without serious [TS]

  help because they they don't get any of [TS]

  the signals the game is telling them and [TS]

  even once you explained it they can't [TS]

  they can't control the little guy and [TS]

  that still is a little bit of a shame [TS]

  that people can experience it can [TS]

  appreciate it but I would like to [TS]

  someone who's like I thought it was fun [TS]

  and it was interesting but I got to a [TS]

  certain point and then I didn't know [TS]

  what to do or I couldn't do it I [TS]

  couldn't get my little guy too jump I [TS]

  didn't understand how I could progress I [TS]

  think you'd have to be pretty [TS]

  I I guess what I'd say is I I think you [TS]

  have to be pretty game illiterate to not [TS]

  because I mean my wife is play [TS]

  playthrough like like I said like tomb [TS]

  raider one and two on the pole original [TS]

  playstation and so she took to it [TS]

  immediately she had a better she had an [TS]

  easier time of it than I did but [TS]

  honestly my five-year-old got through [TS]

  about half of it before you got [TS]

  wouldn't turn it off yeah so with a a [TS]

  bit of the most basic of you know [TS]

  controller knowledge above the Atari [TS]

  2600 joystick you know just the basic [TS]

  kind of knowledge I i think i think the [TS]

  bars pretty low i think yes if you're [TS]

  somebody who doesn't understand that you [TS]

  can move the camera and that you can [TS]

  move a guy around on the screen [TS]

  that's true but it wasn't you know there [TS]

  have been games that i've i've played [TS]

  and thought oh my god these controls are [TS]

  so hard and I just never journey it was [TS]

  like I had a fundamental knowledge of [TS]

  how to move around in a game world and [TS]

  that was all I needed and I think the [TS]

  journey is unique in this regard because [TS]

  i believe it's really it's like an [TS]

  expert's game like the better you are [TS]

  games i think the more you can get out [TS]

  of the experience because everything [TS]

  related to the game completely falls [TS]

  away and you get to just experienced a [TS]

  story you're not worried about systems [TS]

  you it makes you forget about [TS]

  collectibles and all your gaming stuff [TS]

  and your purely like enjoying like this [TS]

  the skills required like this you can do [TS]

  this game play this game with some [TS]

  panache with that little guy right [TS]

  I being able to like strut your stuff [TS]

  and take you know in this sort of kinder [TS]

  gentler world and appreciate it as a [TS]

  piece of art you need some so many basic [TS]

  basic skills need to be unconscious like [TS]

  driving a car we can just like listen to [TS]

  a podcast or music and you're not [TS]

  thinking about driving as much because [TS]

  you've been driving for years and years [TS]

  and it's just unconscious [TS]

  that's the experienced gamers have [TS]

  playing this game but its scales down so [TS]

  well but at a certain point I feel like [TS]

  it falls off and now now you're playing [TS]

  the game not experiencing the game i [TS]

  think now you're now you're wrestling [TS]

  with the control in your hand to make a [TS]

  guy do something and you're off on a [TS]

  different track but the range of journey [TS]

  i think is great but I think the reason [TS]

  i appreciated all gamers are going gaga [TS]

  for its like you go before us because it [TS]

  plays against conventions and it rewards [TS]

  you rewards you for all the time and [TS]

  energy you put into video games in your [TS]

  entire life by giving you this [TS]

  transcendent experience that maybe is [TS]

  not quite as transcendent if you hadn't [TS]

  wasted your life playing video games [TS]

  also it's a great game to play after [TS]

  about six beers haha don't need any [TS]

  doing any actual manual dexterity and [TS]

  that's that I find that's a lot easier [TS]

  to put away my desire to go find all of [TS]

  the symbols [TS]

  yeah and go back uphill as I'm sliding [TS]

  down to find the one that i missed it [TS]

  that ruins it if you're stopping oh I [TS]

  gotta go back up the hill to get [TS]

  assembled you're not playing the game [TS]

  the way that the creators intended to do [TS]

  second playthrough third playthrough [TS]

  find first playthrough they want you to [TS]

  roll and that is why six beers is [TS]

  perfect i did enjoy the sliding sliding [TS]

  on the sand [TS]

  yeah when you figure out you can do that [TS]

  it's a lot of fun because it's fun and [TS]

  the music picked up but it's like yeah [TS]

  we're sliding around on the same screen [TS]

  but that's the great video with the [TS]

  megaman think showing you how you know [TS]

  like they showed you how the game will [TS]

  progress like so the beginning you could [TS]

  climb uphill journey and you go on the [TS]

  other side you slide a little bit not a [TS]

  lot you just slide a little bit to [TS]

  establish the fact that when you go down [TS]

  how you can slide like they say so [TS]

  creeped you up on it and like by the [TS]

  time you get the payoff of the level you [TS]

  get to slide the whole time I can I did [TS]

  some sliding before and it was kind of [TS]

  fun but it was stopped at the bottom of [TS]

  my scarf short but now it's a i love it [TS]

  14 15 15 bucks I thought not a bad not a [TS]

  bad deal [TS]

  I think totally worth it for for uh for [TS]

  that experience I think we have a good [TS]

  time and I think we'll probably play it [TS]

  again before we return the borrowed [TS]

  playstation back to its original owner [TS]

  with a copy of journey on it so they can [TS]

  unite we really ought to get ahold of [TS]

  eco shadows of the Colossus collection [TS]

  before you do that and give that ago [TS]

  because that's that's the next logical [TS]

  step up I can do everybody already [TS]

  played portal so it's like a portal slot [TS]

  somewhere in there so yeah you goes the [TS]

  next one shot of the classes may be too [TS]

  much for you at the end that starts to [TS]

  go into real too much for me a John and [TS]

  is the challenge of classes you can [TS]

  happen if you try to place you have [TS]

  classes drunk you will maybe not google [TS]

  challenge accepted 2 Steve you can't [TS]

  handle the Colossus first first five or [TS]

  six drunk fine but at a certain point [TS]

  you're like our is over up against these [TS]

  guys kill me this game is intended do [TS]

  not operate heavy machinery or play [TS]

  shadow of the colossus that should be [TS]

  something the ESRB puts on the boxes [TS]

  from now on a recommended number of [TS]

  beers to imbibe which games can you play [TS]

  drunk yours just doesn't have little [TS]

  icons of how many beers you should drink [TS]

  I played max payne 4american don't [TS]

  recommend that dark dark souls also [TS]

  maybe don't play that drunk [TS]

  I want to come back for the shadow of [TS]

  colossus drunken episode will be later [TS]

  yeah it's more alert you can die and [TS]

  child look like oh let's see [TS]

  ok I did I i did post on Twitter right [TS]

  after I played it something about how a [TS]

  dragon ate my scarf and John's only [TS]

  response was spoilers seriously nobody [TS]

  was gonna understand that you sweating [TS]

  the whole game I dragon my scars the [TS]

  whole game right there yeah give away [TS]

  the whole game that is the the ultimate [TS]

  the the most emotional emotional point [TS]

  entire game he was going to drag myself [TS]

  john is a scarf obsessive those who have [TS]

  been anything other than a scarf related [TS]

  item he probably would have let it slide [TS]

  alright well i think this has been great [TS]

  and I want to thank everybody for coming [TS]

  tonight Steve let's thank you for giving [TS]

  us your perspective on how many beers it [TS]

  takes to enjoy journey we sailed on [TS]

  together we drifted apart and here you [TS]

  are by my side Jason on the [TS]

  award-winning incomparable podcast [TS]

  that's right so now you come to me with [TS]

  open arms [TS]

  nothing to hide believe what I say I [TS]

  Tony sindelar thank you for being here [TS]

  and uh the wheel in the sky keeps on [TS]

  turning for you too [TS]

  it's not about the destination Jason [TS]

  it's about the journey [TS]

  oh ho that's it's so true Dan Morgan [TS]

  someday love will find you break those [TS]

  chains that bind you [TS]

  I i really liked journal this game it [TS]

  was a lot of weight attorney and Jason [TS]

  tachi rhymes with Bochy uh thank you for [TS]

  being here it's great to have you back [TS]

  on the show and thanks for having me was [TS]

  great and of course the man who is the [TS]

  reason we're all here John siracusa who [TS]

  I've been listening to talk about this [TS]

  game for so long and it was great i want [TS]

  to thank all you guys for actually going [TS]

  out and borrowing a Playstation and me [TS]

  berating you to say it's not so bad you [TS]

  can play this to our game i hope you got [TS]

  out of it [TS]

  enjoyment it was worth the hassle of you [TS]

  know finding something and like for me I [TS]

  bought by bought this PlayStation 2 2nd [TS]

  to last guardian which now is in dev [TS]

  hell and it's depressing right but i'm [TS]

  willing to buy a four-hundred-dollar [TS]

  console and pay fifteen dollars for game [TS]

  just for that two hours entertainment [TS]

  but i understand that everyone else's [TS]

  value system it [TS]

  I appreciate everybody I going out of [TS]

  their way to do and i hope i hope you've [TS]

  learned a valuable lesson [TS]

  what games can do for you especially [TS]

  valuable lesson about move chain which [TS]

  is excellent way to yeah I wish this [TS]

  game was available on other devices and [TS]

  platforms maybe someday it will be yeah [TS]

  I despise the playstation controller as [TS]

  well documented my own podcast so I am [TS]

  NOT a platform parson but I go where the [TS]

  content this critical [TS]

  yeah it was great it was worth it was [TS]

  worth mooching a playstation 3 in order [TS]

  to plant so thanks for suggesting John [TS]

  and thanks everybody for listening we [TS]

  should do more video game shows [TS]

  I think don't you great should i [TS]

  absolutely I agree until the next [TS]

  edition of the uncomfortable podcast in [TS]

  our next video game edition which [TS]

  hopefully won't be too long in the [TS]

  future this is jason sell for the [TS]

  uncomfortable thanks everybody for [TS]

  listening [TS]

  goodbye [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  some some will win some lose some are [TS]

  born to single want to sing the blues [TS]

  that's right the movie never ends it [TS]

  goes on also the on and on and on and on [TS]

  and returns you back to the beginning [TS]

  and then you do it not [TS]

  na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na now na na [TS]

  nananana nananana so this is sort of [TS]

  dorky over here but can I make a [TS]

  suggestion from of a title from journey [TS]

  lyrics that i think is about the game [TS]

  journey [TS]

  yes it's true then we touch then we sang [TS]

  from anywhere you want yeah then we [TS]

  touch then we sang that's pretty good [TS]

  poop ball [TS]