The Incomparable

121: Ice Mary Poppins


  the incomparable number 121 december [TS]

  twenty well we're back on the [TS]

  incomparable podcast I'm Jason smell and [TS]

  we're here in what we like to call flash [TS]

  podcast which means i don't edit it we [TS]

  just posted after we talked for a little [TS]

  bit and we're doing that because it's [TS]

  Christmas and by tradition we're here [TS]

  after watching the now traditional [TS]

  doctor who christmas special joining me [TS]

  to do a brief rundown on our thoughts [TS]

  about Christmas with the doctor 2012 [TS]

  edition the snowmen is the name of the [TS]

  episode joining me are Dan Morgan hi Dan [TS]

  Merry Christmas god bless us everyone [TS]

  and serenity Caldwell merry christmas [TS]

  day since there's no where you are [TS]

  there's lots of now there's going to be [TS]

  more snow [TS]

  hopefully no scary snow eating monster [TS]

  veteran hopefully we'll we'll get this [TS]

  all recorded before you're inundated by [TS]

  snow but that's very festive [TS]

  and Scott McNulty is also here he's [TS]

  coming to us live from his home [TS]

  yes yes yeah how's it going Scott is [TS]

  going well Merry Christmas Merry to all [TS]

  and to all a good night [TS]

  but that's not the end not quite but not [TS]

  quite yet so the snowmen what did what [TS]

  did everybody think I thought this was [TS]

  interesting in that it was it was seems [TS]

  it seems to be trying to do something [TS]

  very different we had I think that since [TS]

  maybe the first christmas special with [TS]

  david tennant where would the the the [TS]

  Christmas invasion where they had to [TS]

  introduce a new doctor since then we've [TS]

  had a lot of Christmas specials i guess [TS]

  and the one where david tennant ends up [TS]

  ultimately regenerating all the others [TS]

  generally have just been kind of telling [TS]

  a christmas story and that didn't this [TS]

  felt like the whole point of this [TS]

  episode was to kick off this sort of new [TS]

  storyline and new era with the with a [TS]

  new companion so it felt really [TS]

  different from most of the Christmas [TS]

  specials that they've done up to now [TS]

  yes yeah there's a lot of stuff too I [TS]

  thought that was a good thing without [TS]

  but without what I liked was that they [TS]

  introduced a lot of new stuff without [TS]

  breaking too much I mean with references [TS]

  to stuff that had already gone by so it [TS]

  was not you know doctor who can never be [TS]

  in a vacuum he's got so much history so [TS]

  after the last season which seems like [TS]

  it's always silly when you have a show [TS]

  and it feels like oh really moment these [TS]

  things happen and very soon we forget [TS]

  about those moments those things because [TS]

  that is the nature of how television [TS]

  works whereas you know in this show it [TS]

  was you know predicated on the fact that [TS]

  terrible things that happened and so we [TS]

  don't simply white wash them or sweep [TS]

  them under the rug [TS]

  you know we acknowledge them yeah it's a [TS]

  it's a it's a new era and uh and uh [TS]

  interesting he said something about more [TS]

  than a thousand years of saving the [TS]

  universe which usually he he doesn't [TS]

  pick his age at four digits so the [TS]

  impression that you get is that he's [TS]

  been kinda hoping for a while and Madame [TS]

  vastra and Strax and Jenny have been [TS]

  complaining that he doesn't you know [TS]

  want to engage in in the world and do [TS]

  what we know him to do because he sad [TS]

  because what happened with Amy and I [TS]

  guess Rory but Amy right so uh so so [TS]

  they have to like get him to snap out of [TS]

  it then we already established him as [TS]

  over a thousand years old when he does [TS]

  the thing in utah yeah fakes his death [TS]

  I guess they certainly won't i'm like [TS]

  yeah I guess that's why I I can't even I [TS]

  can't even get through one more time [TS]

  travel [TS]

  yeah it's it's hard but uh but anyway [TS]

  he's been moping them for a long time [TS]

  when we meet him and they're trying to [TS]

  get them to snap out of it and he has [TS]

  actually you know before the credits [TS]

  even start he has his traditional meat [TS]

  cute with a new companion and the [TS]

  episode you know tries to basically have [TS]

  the doctor push her away so so trying to [TS]

  go against our expectation knowing that [TS]

  this is the new companion and Steven [TS]

  Moffat keeps doing that with this [TS]

  character which is you know that's what [TS]

  he tends to do is try to try to go [TS]

  against against audience expectations a [TS]

  little bit and so that was kind of fun [TS]

  to see him just insisted that he wasn't [TS]

  going to get drawn into this this little [TS]

  dance that's it's almost like a [TS]

  courtship that he's done so many times [TS]

  before and he's just not going to do it [TS]

  but of course inevitably does show and [TS]

  it's moreover like a courtship than any [TS]

  previous companion to date I [TS]

  I think I mean he's definitely much more [TS]

  forward with a with our new Clara that [TS]

  he is with even with Amy its I mean they [TS]

  they get to share Christmas kiss which [TS]

  is impressive and she really does she [TS]

  matches him with it for what for what [TS]

  joke for joke without feeling like a [TS]

  copy of Amy she has are a very distinct [TS]

  personality the new companion which i'm [TS]

  rather delighted about a hand I think [TS]

  it's hilarious her introduction is great [TS]

  because she's already very he's very [TS]

  inquisitive and very curious and I love [TS]

  the moment where the doctors like oh no [TS]

  no you're you're not going to follow me [TS]

  well ok if you're going to follow me [TS]

  well then I'm going to have to go and [TS]

  wipe your memory and comedy of errors in [TS]

  serious memory worm [TS]

  oh man i did enjoy I did enjoy Strax I [TS]

  thought he was an excellent addition to [TS]

  this episode when they killed him and [TS]

  and so to see him back it's like wait a [TS]

  second didn't he die and then yeah well [TS]

  she brought it back she does that [TS]

  sometimes [TS]

  yeah but aren't they also isn't aren't [TS]

  they all clones to the sometimes or yeah [TS]

  but i think this is the implication is [TS]

  that this is just the same Strax and the [TS]

  bat ambassador didn't wanna didn't want [TS]

  to have them stay dead so she found a [TS]

  way to revive him but he was hilarious [TS]

  i'm right i mean I is this episode was [TS]

  much funnier than then I expected given [TS]

  the the promos which were all like it's [TS]

  scary their killer snowman but now it [TS]

  was funny and it and you know and light [TS]

  and meeting a new companion and stuff [TS]

  like that [TS]

  I mean there's only one sold so many [TS]

  eating each other only one [TS]

  well not to mention you know there was I [TS]

  guess depending how you look at it at [TS]

  least once ads well that's getting ahead [TS]

  of ourselves but I was going to say I [TS]

  think after after the you know second [TS]

  half of the most recent season which I [TS]

  think we all kind of pan for the most [TS]

  part yeah he's also pointing this seemed [TS]

  much more like kind of what I you know [TS]

  what I love from Steven Moffat right and [TS]

  what I love about Doctor Who you know [TS]

  this is the sea much to hit the tone a [TS]

  lot better i think they had built up so [TS]

  much heaviness and so much import with [TS]

  all of the events of the amy and rory [TS]

  seasons there was just sort of course [TS]

  collapsing under its own weight whereas [TS]

  the ability to start fresh with a [TS]

  especially with sort of a a hero [TS]

  archetype the reluctant hero archetype [TS]

  you know I think it plays very well and [TS]

  I think it works really well and I felt [TS]

  like you know maybe all the other [TS]

  seasons were just kind of building to [TS]

  this point it seems like more fucking [TS]

  well you know it reminds me a lot of the [TS]

  end of the david tennant years in the [TS]

  beginning of the mat smith years where [TS]

  you had you know David Tennant's last [TS]

  couple of big things were these awful [TS]

  awful but like very heart-rending very [TS]

  serious big things are happening [TS]

  miniseries is and then when they brought [TS]

  in one Moffat brought the series back to [TS]

  Steven Moffat was like alright the [TS]

  doctor he can be fun again he can wear [TS]

  bow ties and bowties are cool and I felt [TS]

  like a reset without necessarily [TS]

  resetting any of the last couple years [TS]

  get that whole pond story arc being out [TS]

  of the way it was right it way down that [TS]

  way the whole story down to the old [TS]

  serious things are coming and we we you [TS]

  know when we and we talked about that I [TS]

  overall I think I enjoy the special but [TS]

  it did for some reason just I couldn't [TS]

  hold my attention I kept drifting away [TS]

  from it and looking at other things when [TS]

  usually the Christmas special [TS]

  oh and most episodes of Doctor Who [TS]

  really keep my attention I don't know [TS]

  what it was [TS]

  perhaps because i found the snow [TS]

  monsters mostly ridiculous and I was [TS]

  puzzled as to why the new companion was [TS]

  so intent on following doc the doctor [TS]

  when they met the first time it didn't [TS]

  make much sense to me [TS]

  arias at eight yeah or there's a story [TS]

  yeah well that and then so at the end [TS]

  you kind of made sense so that you can [TS]

  say that you know maybe the the [TS]

  universe's is keeps making them come in [TS]

  contact again and again so that you can [TS]

  explain way that with typical Doctor Who [TS]

  waving of hands I suppose [TS]

  ah but i didn't know that until the end [TS]

  so I was just kind of hide until the end [TS]

  and I thought the end brought it [TS]

  together nicely so that was good but I [TS]

  thought there are a lot of really nice [TS]

  scenes including i really enjoyed the [TS]

  the one-word answer scene with Natalie [TS]

  astra which was where [TS]

  and yeah be and especially be one what's [TS]

  the one word that is going to convince [TS]

  him to come to come help you pawned palm [TS]

  we were watching that with with some [TS]

  friends and having them slowly work over [TS]

  there in their heads like what what's [TS]

  working what's so we're going to be [TS]

  children Christmas pond [TS]

  yeah that was a nice scene i really [TS]

  liked the scene with the umbrella where [TS]

  she has to suss out what the plan is [TS]

  and a little bit of my little the role [TS]

  reversal leading up to that with the [TS]

  whole now I do the hand grabbing that's [TS]

  my job that's always my job [TS]

  yeah I'm and we get the subtle reveal [TS]

  that Clara is perhaps not just Clara [TS]

  with you know doesn't have a kitchen [TS]

  well I kind of fancy making soufflés [TS]

  yes and of course salt [TS]

  yeah we should mention on the flash cast [TS]

  that the actress who plays Clara is also [TS]

  the actress who plays cosmic Oswald in a [TS]

  sort of phenolics yes first episode back [TS]

  of the second half of the season maybe [TS]

  the best episode of that group but it's [TS]

  not that but yeah she did and and and [TS]

  now she's back and i think you said that [TS]

  they had a subtle thing they did have a [TS]

  subtle thing and then later they have [TS]

  the not subtle thing you see the subtle [TS]

  thing which was a little itís for kids [TS]

  and people don't remember what happened [TS]

  six months ago but really was like flat [TS]

  wait I remember from before [TS]

  flashback clip from episode this is like [TS]

  that [TS]

  repeat her dialogue repeater dialogue [TS]

  again repeat her dialogue repeater [TS]

  dialogue again [TS]

  got it check did what do you say you [TS]

  weren't listening were you saying she [TS]

  might be the same person as when she was [TS]

  in the show a few weeks ago [TS]

  no that's impossible they keep showing [TS]

  the tombstone I guess u GI assume Jason [TS]

  caught the joke on the tombstone yeah [TS]

  her birthday is the date that doctor who [TS]

  first aired I'm not the year but the [TS]

  date it's november what 23rd so yeah [TS]

  yep I did not catch that although when i [TS]

  was reading and the AV club's review of [TS]

  the the snowmen episode did anybody else [TS]

  catch the fact that I be great [TS]

  intelligence is a second doctor [TS]

  villain so so this is essentially a [TS]

  prequel to the Yeti episodes of the [TS]

  Patrick Troughton area and that that's [TS]

  something that if you don't know what [TS]

  it's just sort of lays there but it be [TS]

  extra fan services him saying well it [TS]

  seems into the ground and you told about [TS]

  the London Underground being a good [TS]

  place and they need to find and that [TS]

  they're basically setting up then this [TS]

  great intelligence does come back in [TS]

  those second doctor episodes from the [TS]

  late sixties also the great intelligence [TS]

  voiced by ian mckellen interesting ball [TS]

  isn't that nice and also an eyesore [TS]

  magneto yeah Richard grant as the [TS]

  villain [TS]

  yeah Richard ground who i believe did he [TS]

  not play doctor version of the doctor [TS]

  yes Richard grant was the BBC website [TS]

  apparently decided at some point the [TS]

  doctor who in about 2,000 for the doctor [TS]

  who was never gonna come back so they [TS]

  cast Richard grant is the doctor and [TS]

  what was going to be a series of [TS]

  web-like flash animation audio plays of [TS]

  Doctor Who and then they they posted one [TS]

  and and somebody tapped somebody on the [TS]

  shoulder and said actually we craft cast [TS]

  christopher eccleston and it's coming [TS]

  back like crap so he basically the [TS]

  alternate 9th doctor that never was [TS]

  he also appeared in Doctor Who in the [TS]

  curse of fatal that the spoof yes as a [TS]

  drunk on New Jersey apparently according [TS]

  to Wikipedia as the quite handsome [TS]

  doctor [TS]

  notnot you grant that's a neutral with [TS]

  people but not Jim Broadbent he was [TS]

  overall doctors in there and crucified [TS]

  at well I i'm a fan of Richard grant [TS]

  since he appeared in one of my favorite [TS]

  awful movies Hudson Hawk oh please you [TS]

  place a villain and Hudson Hawk and [TS]

  another villainous turn here of course [TS]

  is much much older [TS]

  yes yes but that happens and i did like [TS]

  when he his character meets Madame [TS]

  vastra whatever name is and so he eludes [TS]

  the fact that sherlock holmes is based [TS]

  on her and he says you know people would [TS]

  be shocked to find out that sherlock [TS]

  holmes is based on and then of course [TS]

  you know she's a lizard alien so you [TS]

  think he's going to say alien but in [TS]

  fact he says woman and i found that [TS]

  quite a hundred Victorian values and [TS]

  then an illusion towards her [TS]

  relationship with her with her assistant [TS]

  tell she is married married that's an [TS]

  illusion don't think I scandalous about [TS]

  that that was a funny line the what is [TS]

  wrong with Victorian values little but [TS]

  was a lot of smart funny stuff fun to [TS]

  have it be set in the past but with a [TS]

  crazy syfy gang I had that feel the show [TS]

  just do it that often but but with the [TS]

  doctor and Clara and abstracts and [TS]

  Madame vastra and Jenny that you have [TS]

  this you know it's this ensemble it's [TS]

  the gang and it's the Victorian Doctor [TS]

  Who gang and they saw the crimes and I i [TS]

  love that I mean I whenever there's I [TS]

  mean obviously I think Steven Moffat [TS]

  loved it because he got this group [TS]

  together for a good man goes to war and [TS]

  said that was great let's do that again [TS]

  we kill streaks will bring him back just [TS]

  come on and you know it was just a lot [TS]

  of not only funny but it's fun to see [TS]

  that oddball collection of characters [TS]

  and placing them in the past like that [TS]

  where there's no you know understanding [TS]

  of aliens and things like that hilarious [TS]

  i thought that was a really really funny [TS]

  thing for them to do [TS]

  why shouldn't the doctor travel alone [TS]

  because it's much more fun to watch him [TS]

  interact with other people [TS]

  true i think that the the Victorian gang [TS]

  should get their own spin-off series [TS]

  I wonder actually about that I i'm james [TS]

  got hers it's not terribly out of the [TS]

  ordinary [TS]

  yeah oh if we should talk about sherlock [TS]

  holmes the doctor the doctor sherlock [TS]

  holmes an episode written by the [TS]

  executive producer of Sherlock except [TS]

  that Sherlock Holmes is a fictional [TS]

  detective in this world but he does his [TS]

  you know you have a do you have a dog [TS]

  named Colin no I thought not who I love [TS]

  his incredibly out we just leave that [TS]

  with some fish [TS]

  ok fine the fish that did not bark oh [TS]

  god I i just i love how outrageous he is [TS]

  at the top of that was like use i'm [TS]

  going to portray this fictional [TS]

  character in your world as bombastic Lee [TS]

  as possible and then when i get down to [TS]

  the deductions that I'm actually good [TS]

  about you know I'm going to be right on [TS]

  the money all the time [TS]

  interesting um performance by matt smith [TS]

  I mean he is trying to show that he that [TS]

  he's progressed the doctor has [TS]

  progressed [TS]

  little bit and he's familiar but at the [TS]

  same time I'm going to change his [TS]

  wardrobe and he's a little more [TS]

  reluctant and you know it was it was it [TS]

  was nice to see him again after not [TS]

  seeing him for a little while since the [TS]

  last episode and but i did get the sense [TS]

  that they totally it was it was [TS]

  different no wardrobe helps a lot and [TS]

  he's got that hat and he's got this coat [TS]

  and you know the doctor seems to change [TS]

  clothes so infrequently he's lived a [TS]

  thousand years and he's had about 12 [TS]

  outfits right so yeah but I thought that [TS]

  the significance of that was that you [TS]

  know he had had assimilated to a certain [TS]

  extent you have been there a long time [TS]

  so he had he lost his particular garb [TS]

  instead sort of blended in which he [TS]

  doesn't do very well living on his cloud [TS]

  oh my gosh I inspiral castle on a cloud [TS]

  yeah we do have to i think we do have to [TS]

  give a shout-out to I think what was the [TS]

  in my opinion perhaps the best line of [TS]

  the episode which was Clara one first [TS]

  confronted with that artists and walks [TS]

  around it [TS]

  it's snowing outside smaller on the [TS]

  outside and they're heard that once or [TS]

  twice yeah yeah well then the the TARDIS [TS]

  has a new interior design [TS]

  oh yeah jack white like it's very rare [TS]

  very reminiscent of the law of the older [TS]

  doctors [TS]

  yeah reminds me of the of the white that [TS]

  you know the white console room from the [TS]

  from the eighties especially but you [TS]

  know you just predate that new opening [TS]

  credit sequence that reminded me of some [TS]

  of the other doctors seeking Jesse [TS]

  translucent doctor who faces back [TS]

  yeah you know although it was kind of [TS]

  you know it's it's it's more subtle [TS]

  because he's like his faces in the [TS]

  nebula basically we've learned a lot [TS]

  about special effects in last 30 years [TS]

  and astronomy but i but yes it's a it [TS]

  was a there's definitely some callbacks [TS]

  I get the feeling that we are just about [TS]

  to plunge into a year of massive Doctor [TS]

  Who nostalgia just because it is the [TS]

  50th anniversary year and so and you [TS]

  know the people running the show are [TS]

  well aware of the show's history and so [TS]

  I think you know you're going to see [TS]

  things like the like the great [TS]

  intelligence and and references to the [TS]

  second doctor and and things like the [TS]

  title sequence being [TS]

  much more like the old style title [TS]

  sequences right down to the the doctors [TS]

  face appearing in it i think i have to [TS]

  say you know usually Clara I i really am [TS]

  impressed that they managed to find it [TS]

  and actress who i think has as much [TS]

  chemistry with matt smith as as I [TS]

  already forgot my name [TS]

  that's awful any pond where ya goin yeah [TS]

  Karen Gillan has except very and yet [TS]

  it's like me different yeah sure there's [TS]

  much shorter yes for one thing and was [TS]

  red hair but I you know the fact that [TS]

  the the they do have a very different [TS]

  relationship is totally feels very [TS]

  different from his relationship with a [TS]

  museum a bit more sarcastic a bit more [TS]

  cynical whereas I think Clara has a [TS]

  little bit more almost like wide almost [TS]

  naivete and I think it's but it's they [TS]

  still have an excellent excellence you [TS]

  know [TS]

  reportate going on there well it was [TS]

  spectrum of Steven Moffat women [TS]

  character she's more on the river song [TS]

  and I think in a sense that you know Amy [TS]

  you know you it was the childhood friend [TS]

  of Amy but whereas with Clara I don't [TS]

  know she just seems to be in a really [TS]

  snarky and and smart and competent and I [TS]

  don't know it's a very different kind of [TS]

  feel than the Amy relationship you're [TS]

  absolutely right about that but I felt [TS]

  that in an asylum of the daleks to that [TS]

  she's got this [TS]

  she's got lots of comebacks and she's [TS]

  really she's you know she's quick with a [TS]

  with a rejoinder and doesn't take [TS]

  seriously our key right like that amy [TS]

  was always a snarky and she's more [TS]

  earnest but almost more she's trying out [TS]

  don't think the doctors you ma'am [TS]

  yeah exactly yeah I I like I mean amy [TS]

  was always running away whereas Clara [TS]

  feel like I was running to adventure and [TS]

  he's just like let's let's run away [TS]

  let's go you know not only from the [TS]

  peasantry yeah and Clara being all right [TS]

  forward ho let's go into the great [TS]

  unknown and find out what's out there [TS]

  and fix fix things I it's a good note [TS]

  for the doctor to go back adventuring [TS]

  out on especially a doctor that's been [TS]

  hurt and trying to run away when he [TS]

  walks out on her [TS]

  no and she follows him around the corner [TS]

  and then he takes off and she runs and [TS]

  jumps on the carriage right so she you [TS]

  know she she is pursuing him in a you [TS]

  know who knows what the overarching [TS]

  story is going to be because she does [TS]

  die in this episode just she ties in [TS]

  asylum of the daleks I'd say that was a [TS]

  spoiler but I mean clearly I wasn't [TS]

  actually surprised that she died because [TS]

  we've seen her die before and like all [TS]

  right this is gonna be it's already a [TS]

  weird situation that we've seen her once [TS]

  so why not kill her again and then you [TS]

  really ask yourself what it what is [TS]

  going on here is she coming from cell [TS]

  phone as of the Rory Williams syndrome [TS]

  yeah really [TS]

  she's really dying and then just you [TS]

  know reappearing so she's obviously not [TS]

  what she seems whether she knows that or [TS]

  not and that's that's interesting that [TS]

  you know it could be a good story arc ER [TS]

  could be a bad morning and I think that [TS]

  Reds to runs point it makes a really [TS]

  good job of giving him something to go [TS]

  because it's the end episode we use off [TS]

  with him going off in search of her and [TS]

  right you know that that gives him [TS]

  something [TS]

  well English which he hasn't had for a [TS]

  while and I'm seeing her at the [TS]

  gravestone in the present ish as a [TS]

  modern person to giving us that it you [TS]

  know this isn't you know there are more [TS]

  of her out there it [TS]

  yeah what yeah yeah yeahs was only does [TS]

  too [TS]

  sorry dr. you'll be wondering for a very [TS]

  long time so I i speculated with dan [TS]

  before the the episode started our [TS]

  psyche well maybe they're going to do [TS]

  almost a different main of the river [TS]

  song story work he just keeps on meeting [TS]

  her at various points in time as [TS]

  different people and trying to solve the [TS]

  mystery of that it looks like instead [TS]

  they've done a future version of past [TS]

  version and they're going to go with e [TS]

  the present version of Clara bright who [TS]

  knows how long you'll have with her [TS]

  brands I mean it's still I think it [TS]

  could be a very compelling mystery if [TS]

  Steven Moffat can hold off on to the [TS]

  reins and not you know let it get out of [TS]

  control your diet anytime and then we'll [TS]

  just bring her back the next week [TS]

  get the other black yeah maybe she'll [TS]

  die every week oh how did she die in [TS]

  glory glory so they need a new dad [TS]

  of the week yeah maybe there's some [TS]

  added yeah it's it's funny it's weird I [TS]

  mean obviously this is like I said [TS]

  Steven Moffat is all about trying to go [TS]

  against fan expectations your [TS]

  expectations and and so with this it's a [TS]

  you know he's trying to create a [TS]

  companion story that you haven't seen [TS]

  before which is every time you meet her [TS]

  she dies so what's the deal with that [TS]

  she keeps coming back and presumably [TS]

  tied in in some way to the 50th [TS]

  anniversary story because we're you know [TS]

  they're counting down to it now but [TS]

  it'll be interesting to see you know it [TS]

  i like their chemistry i think it's a I [TS]

  think it's fun so hopefully was so sad [TS]

  when she died will never see her again [TS]

  except shoes all over the trailer so we [TS]

  will check for it thanks for that [TS]

  yeah who uh what other thoughts any [TS]

  other thoughts you like it like it [TS]

  generally i mean i-i thought it was so [TS]

  surprised by the tone but but i did you [TS]

  know i did find it fun and I was kind of [TS]

  glad that it was more fun sitting with [TS]

  my kids I was glad that it was more fun [TS]

  and less scary because the Snowman looks [TS]

  scary [TS]

  yeah i mean i will with Gary but yeah I [TS]

  was glad that there weren't that many [TS]

  gods but no that was me i was just [TS]

  saying the teeth the teeth are scary but [TS]

  he seemed very scary [TS]

  yeah I really like the tone of the [TS]

  episode I mean critter Christmas [TS]

  specials are by and large I feel a [TS]

  little bit geared to be family-friendly [TS]

  your users [TS]

  yeah I mean it's Christmas Day no one [TS]

  wants to see lots of sadness Christmas [TS]

  Day and the fact that they were able to [TS]

  kill Clara and still make it fairly [TS]

  light hearted up so don't be like yeah [TS]

  they pissed you know she still around [TS]

  kids don't get don't actually caused all [TS]

  of your snow to melt outside big salty [TS]

  tears its oh ok [TS]

  they managed to create a nice compact [TS]

  alarcon sure they're like little bits [TS]

  and pieces that felt a little rushed by [TS]

  actually I feel like this was a lot [TS]

  better story then Steven Moffat stoled [TS]

  in awhile and manage again he managed to [TS]

  keep the reins on it and he told of [TS]

  relatively nice compact story that had a [TS]

  beginning a middle and an end and II [TS]

  villa and didn't was was not completely [TS]

  out of comprehension but I didn't [TS]

  some-some Doctor Who stories and even [TS]

  some christmas specials for Doctor Who I [TS]

  go into it at the end of the episode of [TS]

  scratching my head unlike that is [TS]

  completely unbelievable and I don't [TS]

  understand and I mean yes you can get [TS]

  away with a little bit of built one in [TS]

  paw prints ability but I i generally [TS]

  want to more or less understand what [TS]

  villain is doing what they're doing and [TS]

  so the the doctor who do i mean the the [TS]

  villain in this story is not entirely [TS]

  two-dimensional he has a little a little [TS]

  bit of character coloring again very [TS]

  very screw jacks canary reminiscent of [TS]

  villains past for Christmas settings on [TS]

  sadly he did not get to be ready and he [TS]

  gets to die [TS]

  IC ask but you know not everybody can [TS]

  have getting its memory worm and then [TS]

  possessed and then is dead [TS]

  alright that having a pretty today Merry [TS]

  Christmas [TS]

  richard maybe you should have been [TS]

  playing with those kids [TS]

  yeah yeah he was he was associate path [TS]

  from the beginning he didn't want to [TS]

  play with anybody just wanted to sit [TS]

  there and play with the snowman and not [TS]

  talk to any other kids and his parents [TS]

  are like boy Johnny he's some you go [TS]

  play with the kids know well i may go [TS]

  back inside it's cold out here i'll talk [TS]

  to you about your little imaginary [TS]

  snowman friend we tried our best [TS]

  sure nothing bad will happen 15 years I [TS]

  car that has even collecting little bit [TS]

  of snow and talking to the giant snow [TS]

  globe for 50 years apparently well well [TS]

  I know my wife would appreciate the use [TS]

  of jars in the episode so that's a plus [TS]

  yes evil yours evil thinking snow [TS]

  crystals in jars except array [TS]

  yeah I guess he's always talking about [TS]

  where I got you know i'm not sure how [TS]

  coherent the snow plot e is this pretty [TS]

  not coherent have to think about how I i [TS]

  think my feeling about it is that it it [TS]

  was clearly not the point and not that [TS]

  important and so I didn't start to apply [TS]

  a lot of logic to it because it really [TS]

  seemed to be beside the point that like [TS]

  you know suffice it to say there's some [TS]

  threats and its benefits [TS]

  Ludi but you know that when when it all [TS]

  turns to rain and solves everything it's [TS]

  like well people nearby the globe were [TS]

  sad it's like really that will you can [TS]

  you just need a family to cry on [TS]

  Christmas Eve and one thing is [TS]

  everything's fine all evil snowmen go [TS]

  away except for the family because [TS]

  they're very sad i mean i think it was [TS]

  the ending was definitely a little bit [TS]

  of a deus ex machina up but that said [TS]

  the plot itself made a fair amount of [TS]

  sense to me where it's even you have [TS]

  antisocial boy who basically embodies [TS]

  this relatively lifeless parasite will [TS]

  fit we will malicious intent and oh I [TS]

  want to be alone because alone is the [TS]

  best and everybody sucks i'm going to [TS]

  create an entire snowmen army of [TS]

  children who think that like I mean it [TS]

  silly and it's outrageous [TS]

  it feels it feels very doctor who and it [TS]

  also feel very real and very Christmasy [TS]

  at the same pot if I think about how [TS]

  many Christmas stories we've heard about [TS]

  you know owners and outcasts and people [TS]

  who don't believe in the goodness of [TS]

  others and living snowman to and let me [TS]

  throw my frosty usually doesn't have [TS]

  those of scary teeth but you know really [TS]

  good that's actually got the part about [TS]

  where fell apart for me is the than the [TS]

  old the ice nanny who emerges and then [TS]

  and then attacks them look blue [TS]

  yeah you know I guess you know I don't [TS]

  know that seemed weird because I I was [TS]

  hoping that they were headed for a you [TS]

  know she's important she's gonna rise [TS]

  and she's that she's I expected her to [TS]

  be the the the brains of the outfit [TS]

  right like suddenly that all the [TS]

  intelligence from the snow globe is now [TS]

  in the ice lady and she's really smart [TS]

  and scary and they have to out with her [TS]

  and and melt her in some way right in [TS]

  order to win instead she just sort of [TS]

  has a catchphrase that you know she [TS]

  repeats over and over again which island [TS]

  pines and you know Steven Moffat does [TS]

  that with villains right they repeat [TS]

  catchphrases over and over again and and [TS]

  uh and so we get that here and she's in [TS]

  a force field for a while and then she's [TS]

  in a cloud trapped for a while and then [TS]

  she shockingly you know pulse Clara off [TS]

  the cloud but shatters into a million [TS]

  pieces doesn't seem very smart and then [TS]

  the doctor like sweeps her up with the [TS]

  TARDIS so that they can't use the pieces [TS]

  i don't know that part that's where [TS]

  that's what actually where it came apart [TS]

  for me where I was really hoping you [TS]

  know there was such a menace when she [TS]

  was in the in the ice behind the house [TS]

  that this once this thing got out watch [TS]

  out then and then really you didn't need [TS]

  to i think what I think we were the [TS]

  doctor who like in so many other cases [TS]

  you know villains and scary things are [TS]

  much better when left to the imagination [TS]

  and then turned into a concrete sort of [TS]

  right now I would have rather had the [TS]

  had the ice nanny you know not get not [TS]

  come out and be like oh jeez the really [TS]

  bad thing is about to come out and then [TS]

  stop it but once it's revealed it's like [TS]

  yeah it's a it's mary poppins covered in [TS]

  ice [TS]

  yay they see well [TS]

  is it also birthday blue scarab and [TS]

  we've road-tripped yeah umbrella which I [TS]

  thought was a nice nice not Americans I [TS]

  really thought that the appearance of [TS]

  the Ice Man II diluted the wonderful [TS]

  moment that Clara as with her charges [TS]

  when she's telling them about the doctor [TS]

  and this man was in a cast for MacLeod I [TS]

  it that such a poignant moment and [TS]

  really describes a lot about the doctor [TS]

  and I feel like all right we're going to [TS]

  start telling the story [TS]

  yeah I have bad dreams while he's on [TS]

  vacation right now but he's kind of got [TS]

  to save us and then instead of a triumph [TS]

  of Doctor Who woman we get a scary I [TS]

  lady [TS]

  okay yeah very strange and an [TS]

  unfortunate that I don't know what you [TS]

  have to do I mean obviously I think they [TS]

  need to advance the story along and that [TS]

  was the most important part but yeah it [TS]

  was it was then that fell short for me I [TS]

  mean I didn't like I didn't mind the [TS]

  snowglobe stuff and and in fact the [TS]

  fairytale aspect of the the whole of the [TS]

  family is crying thing was it was fine [TS]

  it was a deus ex machina but oh ok but [TS]

  the ice and he just started didn't work [TS]

  at all [TS]

  it felt great it seemed like they felt [TS]

  like they need to spend our special [TS]

  effects budget [TS]

  yeah yeah I guess although I'm didn't [TS]

  have that much because she didn't look [TS]

  that great either i did I were missing [TS]

  something [TS]

  I didn't it was a big but I guess kids [TS]

  might be terrified by annie that's made [TS]

  out of Miami nanny that's been [TS]

  reanimated out of a block of ice but you [TS]

  know who cool among us can relate to [TS]

  that we should talk about the the [TS]

  trailer at the end people see the [TS]

  trailer at the end [TS]

  yes yes yes so glimpses lots of stuff in [TS]

  there and that i thought was interesting [TS]

  there some ghoulish kind of monsters [TS]

  they're there are redesigned Cyberman in [TS]

  there which is from neil gaiman episode [TS]

  which is coming up [TS]

  well there's a submarine [TS]

  summary dan I think you like I don't [TS]

  know what I do like submarines i'm a fan [TS]

  of submarines thought you were big they [TS]

  go underneath the marine that's right [TS]

  it's better underneath the marina [TS]

  yeah way better there is fish down there [TS]

  yeah I don't know it went by only gotta [TS]

  watch it once because we're watching on [TS]

  DVR and so I didn't I didn't answer jump [TS]

  right into the podcast started just like [TS]

  the printer it [TS]

  yeah doesn't guy's house where Clara [TS]

  whatever the hell you're holding a gun [TS]

  yeah or somebody gon of some sort i [TS]

  don't know i was paying attention to see [TS]

  if her hair styles and or clothing was [TS]

  dramatically changed in between [TS]

  appearances just in case it is you're [TS]

  getting older it didn't seem like they [TS]

  showed her some other pictures of her in [TS]

  Victorian dress [TS]

  yeah they do show a couple of her from [TS]

  the future episode and from the past [TS]

  steps though but I think we're going to [TS]

  be sticking with President Clara for a [TS]

  while or at least it seems to look that [TS]

  way from the previous is once we meet [TS]

  her [TS]

  yes although then again we may just get [TS]

  her for one or two episodes and then we [TS]

  do get quite a few people being like [TS]

  this is a very interesting creature [TS]

  you've picked up who is this girl right [TS]

  there [TS]

  it's clear that cycle of the season or [TS]

  at least this first half will definitely [TS]

  be set off i'm just-just who or what is [TS]

  Clara and why is the universe treating [TS]

  her in such a fashion right i think so [TS]

  that you know Steven Moffat had some [TS]

  success with his story arcs like this [TS]

  and some some not successfully story [TS]

  acts like this but if they keep if they [TS]

  tell interesting stories and then they [TS]

  have this going on in the background as [TS]

  to who this person is and and and why [TS]

  she's there that that could be [TS]

  interesting you know the leading up [TS]

  presumably to a season finale that has [TS]

  shocking revelations and you know we've [TS]

  seen that before it's all going to come [TS]

  down to the details and what kind of [TS]

  stories that they're telling in this [TS]

  last this last half of this the set of [TS]

  episodes I it's getting confusing about [TS]

  what a season is with Doctor Who because [TS]

  this year the Christmas specials in the [TS]

  middle and they're doing the anniversary [TS]

  of the fall and nobody knows what form [TS]

  that's going to take so I don't know [TS]

  there's whatever 55 more episode 6 more [TS]

  episodes to come so we'll see [TS]

  any other thoughts about Christmas and [TS]

  and Doctor Who I am I'm actually you [TS]

  know feeling after again after feeling [TS]

  kind of burned by the this season in [TS]

  general i'm feeling cautiously [TS]

  optimistic that there might be some good [TS]

  stuff ahead [TS]

  yeah i don't know i like i like the tone [TS]

  of this episode of probably vector you [TS]

  know watching Doctor Who because it was [TS]

  fun and outrageous and you know the [TS]

  doctor is a larger-than-life hero and so [TS]

  I kind of like the idea of a fresh start [TS]

  with the new companion and some new [TS]

  mysteries new friends all that good [TS]

  stuff so I'm looking forward to it [TS]

  yeah good to be out from the crushing [TS]

  kind of end of the pond story i mean i [TS]

  love you i love you mean worried where [TS]

  it started it just it got it got too [TS]

  much too fast i felt like his ponderous [TS]

  haha haha oh that's my job there's not [TS]

  enough room for two of us making under [TS]

  its parts [TS]

  oh I thought you were going to say that [TS]

  the pond has frozen over [TS]

  nah I don't get that well it was in the [TS]

  episode there was a nice nanny and all [TS]

  right it's got there were detectives in [TS]

  this episode this is right up your alley [TS]

  and vintage era was I do like Victorian [TS]

  detectives yeah I'm overall it was a fun [TS]

  episode you know I just a blizzard lady [TS]

  exhibition guitar and lizards ladies [TS]

  intern but ladies that those are good [TS]

  yeah and I think I i like them i had [TS]

  left me hopeful for the rest of the [TS]

  season because i feel like it is a going [TS]

  to involve us to like an overarching [TS]

  story arc that will be a little more [TS]

  interesting than the kind of the one off [TS]

  like random episodes that we've been [TS]

  getting so robot cowboy sorry cyborg [TS]

  cowboy [TS]

  yeah yeah exactly so I I that's the way [TS]

  I think doctor who does that [TS]

  best that having these kind of grand [TS]

  overarching things and I think that's [TS]

  been missing so hopefully it'll come [TS]

  back around how about you [TS]

  I I think I mean I'm from what I've been [TS]

  saying on the podcast i would rather [TS]

  like watching it I thought it was a good [TS]

  christmas special i'm curious to see [TS]

  what they will do with Clara and I i [TS]

  like the idea that oh it's someone who [TS]

  is sort of stuck in time but not in the [TS]

  way that river song is traveling and [TS]

  stuck in time I love the idea of [TS]

  introducing a new fold and a new [TS]

  character because this much as I love [TS]

  Alex Kingston and I love much as I love [TS]

  river song i think we there that needs [TS]

  to take a back step especially because [TS]

  the ponds are gone so hopefully you know [TS]

  it's it's nice to have something new [TS]

  that we don't know all the mysteries to [TS]

  that isn't just another the doctor is [TS]

  dangerous and needs to be put down i [TS]

  will I i await the rest of the season [TS]

  with high hopes and in my curiosity [TS]

  having a new story is good right i mean [TS]

  david tennant did a year with billie [TS]

  piper and then you got to have the year [TS]

  with with with free magma and then the [TS]

  the you know and then after that got to [TS]

  have the wonderful year with a doctor [TS]

  Donna right and that Smith way he's been [TS]

  lashed for better or worse to Amy bond [TS]

  for two years about two-and-a-half years [TS]

  right so it's time it's time for new [TS]

  stories for him I think it's as much as [TS]

  I like the like worried and Amy it's [TS]

  time for new stories and it has a chance [TS]

  to to let Matt Smith's whole kind of [TS]

  storyline progress and be different and [TS]

  interesting and see him without [TS]

  interacting with other people and I [TS]

  think that's really good i think that's [TS]

  I think there's potential there i mean [TS]

  we may all be suckers right and be like [TS]

  oh yeah sign me up and I'm more excited [TS]

  about it but fact is they were [TS]

  struggling to produce a good episode and [TS]

  it's fall so it's good to see one that [TS]

  was at least fun and light and not [TS]

  clouded with the whole story arc of a [TS]

  mean we're leaving for once [TS]

  yes all right okay well i think i think [TS]

  we're going to close up the flash [TS]

  podcast and mail it over the internet [TS]

  200 of these podcast work again i don't [TS]

  know i press the button here it comes [TS]

  out there so i hope everybody out there [TS]

  had a good holiday and enjoyed doctor [TS]

  who and enjoyed listen to us talk about [TS]

  a little bit and so I would like to [TS]

  thank my companions for christmas night [TS]

  every year for the last couple years dad [TS]

  thank you for sharing some of your [TS]

  christmas with the with the [TS]

  uncomfortable [TS]

  thanks for having me dr. Snell huh [TS]

  that's my father I am merely I merely [TS]

  hosts no awkward and Scott melting [TS]

  thank you for being here i'm sorry that [TS]

  your your euro semi alone [TS]

  hello again for christmas i hope we [TS]

  warmed your heart and your hearth [TS]

  metaphorically i was i'm not alone there [TS]

  like five snowmen behind me i'm sure [TS]

  that's fine [TS]

  don't turn around don't think about the [TS]

  melt things got that's record or cry [TS]

  here I exactly your tears when we hang [TS]

  up we shouldn't be adventures in a new [TS]

  era of of Doctor Who working just [TS]

  different always enemies bike ride [TS]

  don't worry dear i'm always crying yeah [TS]

  that's really want that up and read [TS]

  thank you for being here too [TS]

  of course it's a tradition it is it is a [TS]

  tradition it's very nice i'm glad that [TS]

  you guys could take the time on [TS]

  Christmas night all the presents are [TS]

  open you know everything's been the [TS]

  trees have been set on fire and thrown a [TS]

  worshipper and is that just me [TS]

  well okay i was told it was a tradition [TS]

  anyway it's been great so thanks [TS]

  everybody [TS]

  again and happy holidays and we will be [TS]

  back [TS]

  later we'll be back and show we see next [TS]

  year maybe its next year now is it let [TS]

  me check the counter here it is [TS]

  we'll be back next year the future in [TS]

  the future I want my car [TS]

  that's right still no flanker now damp [TS]

  out and I order i ordered one become [TS]

  alright how the sends being comfortable [TS]

  flash by everybody [TS]