266: Text Adventure Mode
◼
►
source of excitement for you like like
◼
►
what like when I kind of fell out of
◼
►
love with BMW that was easy for me
◼
►
because now I'm now I'm a big fan of
◼
►
Tesla and so like it just kind of got
◼
►
replaced the reason the Apple stuff bugs
◼
►
me so much is that like I haven't
◼
►
replaced that yet in my life and I don't
◼
►
really know what will replace it
◼
►
replaced it with video games yeah you
◼
►
love video games now more than you have
◼
►
in a long time that's replacing your
◼
►
Apple of I mean I love yeah I love a few
◼
►
video games I would hardly call it like
◼
►
a cat you just said that this which is
◼
►
like the best gaming thing you've had
◼
►
since like your childhood yes you know
◼
►
Sega so I think that's that's pretty
◼
►
high praise and the grand scheme of
◼
►
things that you have loved in your life
◼
►
and that video games may say if the next
◼
►
Nintendo thing is like that doesn't
◼
►
appeal to you or doesn't have good games
◼
►
and then you'll be all excited about
◼
►
your new Jaguar ipace I would probably
◼
►
like no matter how good or appealing it
◼
►
was I don't think I would ever actually
◼
►
buy a car from that brand because I just
◼
►
never want to have to say it to people
◼
►
you know you don't have to say Jaguar
◼
►
you can just say Jaguar you can say
◼
►
Jaguar like Steve Jobs oh god no I mean
◼
►
it but the problem is like no matter at
◼
►
first of all it's kind of like like a
◼
►
brand right no it's I mean they both are
◼
►
to some degree like it is it is it is
◼
►
snootier sounding but I think if you had
◼
►
to picture the kind of person who drives
◼
►
a Jaguar and the kind of person who
◼
►
drives a BMW and you're gonna sign
◼
►
you're gonna put a label underneath one
◼
►
of them it's definitely going either
◼
►
brand if you if somebody asks you like
◼
►
out like it out loud in a roomful of
◼
►
other people who are being kind of quiet
◼
►
hey what brand is your car like if you
◼
►
have a BMW you you want to say that a
◼
►
little bit quietly if I had a Jag I'd be
◼
►
I'd like I would just be like I don't
◼
►
have a car like I think the Jaguar
◼
►
product of managers you know marketing
◼
►
managers would love to hear you say that
◼
►
because that's the image they want they
◼
►
want it to be like snooty and
◼
►
highfalutin but realistically speaking
◼
►
these days I don't think it is I think
◼
►
jag would just love to be included in
◼
►
the same buying decision it's Lexus let
◼
►
alone BMW Mercedes oh yeah they're
◼
►
totally irrelevant but the other factor
◼
►
is like I just don't want to hear
◼
►
me how to pronounce it well then never
◼
►
get a Porsche either I was about I was
◼
►
thinking the same thing I said I'm like
◼
►
you know yeah that would also apply to
◼
►
that brand which I'm also not even try
◼
►
to say here because I'm not gonna say it
◼
►
right now I don't care
◼
►
it's anyway I don't want a I don't want
◼
►
a stinger but yeah I think you hit the
◼
►
nail on the head Marco about part of the
◼
►
reason why I'm bummed about BMW not
◼
►
really revving my engine anymore is that
◼
►
I haven't figured out what's replaced
◼
►
replacing it like there's a part of me
◼
►
that's enthusiastic about getting a
◼
►
Wrangler and I'm not trying to open that
◼
►
can of worms but I I don't know that
◼
►
that's really gonna replace that love
◼
►
because there was a stretch of time
◼
►
that every time I got in my car I was
◼
►
just thrilled and excited to be sitting
◼
►
in that chair and now it's it's not an
◼
►
appliance but it's closer to an
◼
►
appliance than then something that gives
◼
►
me pleasure and that's really
◼
►
unfortunate and I don't think I don't
◼
►
think I would view a Jeep in quite the
◼
►
same way as I did the BMW circa 2013
◼
►
that just bums me out like I wish I had
◼
►
something to replace that that kind of
◼
►
joy in my life and and and you know
◼
►
maybe I will but not to maybe it'll be
◼
►
nah no what can replace this joy says
◼
►
the person who just had a new child come
◼
►
on I gotta make me sound like such a
◼
►
jerk speaking of which like back in
◼
►
build and analyze I forget like when in
◼
►
the series it was but sometime during
◼
►
build and analyze I was talking back
◼
►
then about like you know possibly that
◼
►
was when I was like waffling over like
◼
►
what car to get and like after that
◼
►
after the first BMW I was what think
◼
►
about something fast and and Dan was
◼
►
talking about how like he used to care
◼
►
about fast cars and now he just got him
◼
►
he just got minivans and he was totally
◼
►
fun and he just kind of stopped caring
◼
►
about driving fast that's a lie because
◼
►
he eventually got like an Audi yeah
◼
►
there was an Audi so but but like but
◼
►
that's that like that sounded to me like
◼
►
it like that would never happen to me I
◼
►
could not fathom that that ever happened
◼
►
to me I would always care you know as
◼
►
much as I did then and I did care for a
◼
►
while like I went through some nice
◼
►
cars and my current car is fast but I I
◼
►
really do feel myself carrying a lot
◼
►
less over time like and like I'm not
◼
►
really like you know like taking that
◼
►
taking a little like a little turn
◼
►
that's down at the bottom of my street
◼
►
where I can kick it out a little bit
◼
►
when there's leaves down like I don't do
◼
►
that anymore like there's certain like
◼
►
you know highway ramp so I could go
◼
►
super fast before and I just kind of
◼
►
don't do that anymore either like I have
◼
►
even just like over the last like year
◼
►
I've felt myself like really chilling
◼
►
out a lot in that way where I like even
◼
►
even who there I was thinking like maybe
◼
►
on the next one I won't mind so much
◼
►
that now I'm now forced to get the smart
◼
►
air suspension which softens the ride
◼
►
that can sound kind of nice like I
◼
►
realize after I was thinking that I'm
◼
►
like oh my god Who am I
◼
►
but like you're Mercedes here we come
◼
►
yeah but like but I realizing like like
◼
►
you know my priorities have changed too
◼
►
like if I was buying a new car today I
◼
►
would still get a Tesla and I would
◼
►
still get this the you know a fast model
◼
►
but it's because I would want the the
◼
►
biggest range which is which is not the
◼
►
fastest model which is the decision I
◼
►
made with this one and I would make the
◼
►
exact same decision again like the speed
◼
►
of it is way less important to me than
◼
►
the range of it I like that it's fast I
◼
►
have fun with the speed sometimes but
◼
►
it's way less often that that's relevant
◼
►
to me than it used to be and you know
◼
►
for UKC like you know as we've mentioned
◼
►
in the past like you know being a car
◼
►
enthusiast is so much a part of your
◼
►
identity that you know and it need not
◼
►
be you know that's that's an option that
◼
►
you have yeah but but you know you you
◼
►
still you you have a lot of that love
◼
►
and you and some degree you probably
◼
►
always will but it's okay if if it comes
◼
►
to this if you realize this in your you
◼
►
know in introspection
◼
►
it's okay for your priorities to change
◼
►
or for like the the the significance
◼
►
that you apply to certain factors to be
◼
►
rearranged or to shift around and so
◼
►
like it's like you know you said like
◼
►
you know used to be you know you should
◼
►
be really like you know thrilled getting
◼
►
in your car and now it's more of a
◼
►
function and part of that is because
◼
►
you're you know you've had this car for
◼
►
a while so it's no longer as novel part
◼
►
of that is you kind of hate this car
◼
►
cost you but you know par that's also
◼
►
like you are growing up you know you
◼
►
your your but what six seven years older
◼
►
now them then when you growing up he's
◼
►
in his mid-30s he's getting old you stop
◼
►
growing up we're always growing up you
◼
►
know you start getting older certain
◼
►
morning I think you okay yeah we are
◼
►
continuing to get old some of us older
◼
►
the busy living or get busy dying
◼
►
finally something you both get reference
◼
►
technology whatever it is like you know
◼
►
it's okay to change over time and to
◼
►
recognize that's what's happening and I
◼
►
agree with you the thing is I don't feel
◼
►
like I'm that different I agree that I
◼
►
am slightly different and the joy I get
◼
►
from Aaron's car is indication to me
◼
►
that I am feeling differently because
◼
►
Aaron's car feels to me anyway very
◼
►
cushy it has a lot of those techno bits
◼
►
that like your car has not exactly the
◼
►
same but like you know there's an app
◼
►
where I can start it remotely and I know
◼
►
you're like haha what's an engine but
◼
►
you get what I'm driving at and and I
◼
►
get a lot of pleasure from Aaron's car
◼
►
despite the fact that it's big it's slow
◼
►
it according to Jon tips over if you
◼
►
steer more than you know five degrees
◼
►
laterally but but it's in every way it's
◼
►
wrong from the list of things that Casey
◼
►
enjoys but I do like it and I think the
◼
►
thing that that the crisis I'm having is
◼
►
that I don't feel like I'm that
◼
►
different like well all I really want in
◼
►
the world is somebody that is not BMW to
◼
►
make me either a 340 sedan or an m3 and
◼
►
I don't think that really exists and
◼
►
there was a report I'm not gonna be able
◼
►
to find the link but a friend of mine
◼
►
Brad sent me a report some rumors that
◼
►
the 3-series is going to lose the stick
◼
►
in the next generation which isn't
◼
►
particularly surprising but is kind of
◼
►
devastating and I know I need to just
◼
►
wake up and smell reality that that the
◼
►
three pedal cars are not long for this
◼
►
but I feel like I'm being this is a lot
◼
►
of words to say I feel like I'm being
◼
►
abandoned and BMW is supposed to help me
◼
►
and it sounds like they're abandoning me
◼
►
grumpy about the fact that this cars
◼
►
cost me a bazillion dollars so I I just
◼
►
I feel like I'm a ronin right like I'm a
◼
►
man without a master now and and that
◼
►
bums me out because I want to be able to
◼
►
to find a car that gives me that joy
◼
►
again and you know the the Julia did
◼
►
give me a lot of that joy and maybe I
◼
►
would feel slightly differently about it
◼
►
if there was literally no other options
◼
►
like if there were no three pedal cars
◼
►
but you know I mean like I feel like
◼
►
I've been I've been left wanting in and
◼
►
that that kind of bums me out cuz I feel
◼
►
like I'm the same as I've always been
◼
►
older and maybe wiser and certainly
◼
►
slower but it's I at least older at
◼
►
least older but but you know what I mean
◼
►
like I just I feel like nothing is
◼
►
filling that void even though I'm ready
◼
►
for something to fill that void
◼
►
for something to fill that void
◼
►
if the first version has to be assembled
◼
►
partially out of parts that come in the
◼
►
industry that's fine but eventually we
◼
►
like to bring that in-house because we
◼
►
feel like we can do it better we know
◼
►
exactly what we want for the watch we
◼
►
know exactly what we want for our phones
◼
►
I don't want to have to convince some
◼
►
other company to make this product for
◼
►
me and in fact we have some better ideas
◼
►
about how it might be dump is behind all
◼
►
the best people in this industry because
◼
►
we have too much money right and that is
◼
►
way more aggressive than just shopping
◼
►
among like oh we're gonna use the Sony
◼
►
panel in this display or we're gonna use
◼
►
Tran Tran so the best CRTs and you know
◼
►
like it's way more aggressive to say
◼
►
we're gonna do it ourselves because it's
◼
►
a competitive advantage not to have to
◼
►
wait for the rest of the industry to do
◼
►
anything and in the case of these
◼
►
screens even if you're in a situation
◼
►
where one company makes the best screens
◼
►
and Apple wants the best screens and
◼
►
they feel bad getting a one supplier I
◼
►
think apples view on it aside from that
◼
►
we just don't like giving money to
◼
►
Samsung as a single suppliers to say we
◼
►
think we can do that better because we
◼
►
know exactly what we want and it's a
◼
►
pain to have to tell Samsung exactly
◼
►
what we want and get them to build the
◼
►
thing that we want and go through all
◼
►
that thing we know what we want why
◼
►
don't we just do it ourselves and that's
◼
►
what they've been doing with lots of
◼
►
components if they have any problems
◼
►
with any kind of supplier like Qualcomm
◼
►
being annoying and about you know
◼
►
charging them lots of money or them not
◼
►
having lots of alternatives and trying
◼
►
to get Intel to build radio chips and
◼
►
stuff in a venture they say you know
◼
►
what I'm tired of this we have good
◼
►
engineers we know how to build things
◼
►
why don't we build the radio chips and
◼
►
not build so much as design and have
◼
►
manufactured for us the last bastion of
◼
►
that is manufacturing we're thus far
◼
►
Apple has been happy to say
◼
►
manufacturers compete amongst yourselves
◼
►
and we will give you CPU fab our design
◼
►
that you will fab for us and we will
◼
►
give you manufacturing thing our case
◼
►
design that you will machine that of
◼
►
aluminum for us and we will help you buy
◼
►
the machines for it and we'll help you
◼
►
work on the techniques to use those
◼
►
machines and we'll do all this stuff but
◼
►
in the end Apple doesn't own the
◼
►
factories Apple does not own a silicon
◼
►
CPU fab it still allows other companies
◼
►
to do that for it so it hasn't gotten to
◼
►
the point where we say you know what I'm
◼
►
tired of waiting for you know Taiwan
◼
►
Semiconductor to come up with a new fab
◼
►
let's make our own fab because that
◼
►
starts to get you know a couple billion
◼
►
here capability in there so you're
◼
►
talking real money so so far they've
◼
►
been avoiding that but
◼
►
the modern Apple I think is more
◼
►
aggressive than any other Apple has been
◼
►
in their drive to get a real competitive
◼
►
edge in the market by saying we'll do it
◼
►
ourselves and having the confidence that
◼
►
they'll be able to be able to do it
◼
►
better than anyone else which is
◼
►
exciting from a technology perspective
◼
►
to see you know that's what we always
◼
►
want Apple to although it may seem
◼
►
exciting when Apple is able to
◼
►
synthesize from the parts that are
◼
►
available to almost anybody or most
◼
►
people you know plus or minus one or two
◼
►
parts to make a great product at it it's
◼
►
even more exciting I guess in the iPhone
◼
►
age to see them make phones that are
◼
►
just leaps and bounds better in certain
◼
►
areas than other phones for reasons that
◼
►
are directly traceable to Apple strategy
◼
►
to say bring the system out of chips in
◼
►
house that's why their system on chips
◼
►
are so much better than everybody else's
◼
►
if they were still sitting around they
◼
►
were using the same chips as Android
◼
►
phones though the I think the phone
◼
►
landscape would look very different
◼
►
Apple wouldn't be able to do half the
◼
►
things that it does because it would be
◼
►
working with CPUs that are not now I'm
◼
►
gonna say that are worse or slower which
◼
►
I'm in case they are but that simply are
◼
►
not tailored to the set of features that
◼
►
Apple wants it picks the exact number of
◼
►
cores the exact number of amount of
◼
►
cache right the the you know the exact
◼
►
layout so they can put all their
◼
►
different you know they know exactly
◼
►
what they want for like the iPhone tend
◼
►
to do face ID if they had to adapt some
◼
►
weird you know Snapdragon processor that
◼
►
has way more cores and they want but not
◼
►
enough of something else that they want
◼
►
we'd still be waiting for for a face ID
◼
►
so I don't know I know I'm going with
◼
►
this except to say that I think that
◼
►
this aspect of Apple the technological
◼
►
aggression is actually I think one of
◼
►
the most interesting aspects of the
◼
►
company today and probably
◼
►
underappreciated by you know by anybody
◼
►
who doesn't fall Apple really closely
◼
►
doesn't really care what's in their
◼
►
products but I find it exciting
◼
►
we are sponsored this week by betterment
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much to betterment for sponsoring our
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show all right let's move on to ask ATP
◼
►
Simon edge Singh says hey what's the
◼
►
deal with the bits that were once used
◼
►
as an important spec for gaming consoles
◼
►
how many bits does a modern console have
◼
►
and why's it no longer used in marketing
◼
►
and so as soon as I read this I thought
◼
►
back to the days of the Nintendo 64
◼
►
which everyone knew was 64-bit because
◼
►
it was right there in the name and oh
◼
►
man was that thing way cooler than any
◼
►
other modern console or so I thought
◼
►
when I was 10 or whatever so John is the
◼
►
chief gamer of the three of us can you
◼
►
explain to me what's the deal with these
◼
►
bits and why are they no longer used in
◼
►
marketing well marketing has moved
◼
►
entirely on to blast proccesing as a all
◼
►
right so the bits thing like first I
◼
►
read this question I'm like is that a
◼
►
thing that people really wonder about
◼
►
like our consoles still marketed with
◼
►
bits and I think the person who's asking
◼
►
this must have lived through the era
◼
►
these days I haven't seen like the the
◼
►
ps3 or ps4 are you the ps2 for that
◼
►
matter marketing with bits like its it's
◼
►
a thing that is that has passed us by
◼
►
for for good reasons but back when it
◼
►
was used as the marketing turn ascribing
◼
►
a number of bits to a CPU like oh this
◼
►
is a 16-bit CPU this is 32-bit CPU this
◼
►
is a 64-bit CPU there's no hard and fast
◼
►
rules as with most things and
◼
►
marketing's and when you can say
◼
►
something like that but in general the
◼
►
number of bits tended to be applicable
◼
►
because certain things have the same
◼
►
number of bits so the you know the
◼
►
integer registers the place where you
◼
►
store a number would have 16 bits and
◼
►
the address but bus would be 16 bits
◼
►
wide which they controlled how much RAM
◼
►
you could address and you'd call that
◼
►
processor a 16 bit processor didn't have
◼
►
to be the case for example there are
◼
►
many quote-unquote 32-bit processors
◼
►
that shipped with hardware wise
◼
►
physically speaking a 24 bit memory bus
◼
►
and thinking of the original Macintosh
◼
►
and many after that you'd still call it
◼
►
a 32 bit processor though because the
◼
►
integer registers for 32 bits wide and
◼
►
even on a quote-unquote 32 bit processor
◼
►
the floating-point registers might have
◼
►
been 64 bits wide why is that not a 64
◼
►
bit processor and what if the memory bus
◼
►
is wider than the integers and what if
◼
►
the integer is wider than the memory bus
◼
►
and like so there is no hard and fast
◼
►
rule but in general because usually
◼
►
either the memory bus or the integer
◼
►
register width or both were on this
◼
►
number and because there was a
◼
►
progression because it's more expensive
◼
►
especially in the early days to make
◼
►
wider buses to make larger registers
◼
►
right that each leap like now we can
◼
►
make the registers 32 bits each leap was
◼
►
met with a marketing push to say you
◼
►
know the 386 is the 32-bit processor and
◼
►
importantly in terms of representable
◼
►
numbers for integers 64-bit integers and
◼
►
way before you want them to like 65535
◼
►
right 32-bit integers ended a pretty
◼
►
high number that you feel like I can do
◼
►
a lot more with four billion oh yeah
◼
►
there's a lot more things I can count
◼
►
with precision from you know with the
◼
►
item so I can count where's 65,000 I can
◼
►
think of lots of scenarios where I might
◼
►
need to bend I'm bigger than that so
◼
►
once we cross 32 bits we're and same
◼
►
thing for memory addressing although in
◼
►
the beginning there was no computer no
◼
►
personal computer could fill up all the
◼
►
third qubits that memory bus so
◼
►
eventually we got there once you cross
◼
►
32 you have a lot more Headroom so 8-bit
◼
►
and 16-bit it's like lots of problems
◼
►
where this is annoying and flowing port
◼
►
doesn't help you entirely because of
◼
►
precision and all that stuff
◼
►
32 bits so I can run this for a while
◼
►
and we did we ran on quote-unquote
◼
►
32-bit processors for a long time till
◼
►
we eventually got to the point where you
◼
►
could fill a PC with more RAM that could
◼
►
be addressed with 32 bits and then we
◼
►
needed to go to 64 but that took a
◼
►
really long time now our phones are
◼
►
freaking 64-bit which is amazing if you
◼
►
live for the era where you had to
◼
►
progress you're 16 and 32 and so on and
◼
►
so forth game consoles same deal their
◼
►
computers they have memory buses usually
◼
►
they use cheaper stuff because they cost
◼
►
less money than a PC so when pcs were
◼
►
using 32-bit processors game consoles
◼
►
maybe a eight or 16-bit processors just
◼
►
because they had to cost so much less
◼
►
money and it costs less money to make
◼
►
you know smaller chips in surface area
◼
►
and the more lanes you have for your
◼
►
address buses everywhere and though the
◼
►
wider your interest registers and all
◼
►
that of stuff the bigger there so once
◼
►
consoles like so 16-bit was turbo
◼
►
graphics Christine SNES Genesis Sega
◼
►
Master System was 8-bit right yeah
◼
►
anyway you can look on Wikipedia what
◼
►
the bits were but so there was there was
◼
►
eight bit gaming consoles two 16-bit
◼
►
once we got to 32 around the era
◼
►
surprisingly of the Nintendo 64 we got
◼
►
the 32 PlayStation was 32 entender 64
◼
►
was arguably not as 64 e as they made it
◼
►
out to be okay why do you say that I
◼
►
don't think every like it didn't I have
◼
►
to look up him what computer but I don't
◼
►
I don't think the the memory bus and
◼
►
he's more for example or 64 bits what
◼
►
yeah I think you're right there were
◼
►
like parts of it that were 64 bit but
◼
►
not like it was arguable because like
◼
►
because why would you make the memory
◼
►
about 64 bits why I have no idea I'm
◼
►
just pulling this off the top of my head
◼
►
but seriously there's no way in hell the
◼
►
physically speaking they have a 64-bit
◼
►
memory bus and something that had like 2
◼
►
megabytes of RAM like it doesn't make
◼
►
any sense right you need 4 gigs to
◼
►
see the addressability of 32 minutes and
◼
►
if they did it must have only been
◼
►
because they were using an existing part
◼
►
but it just doesn't seem like they would
◼
►
do it's the same reason they had 24-bit
◼
►
memory bus on the Macintosh because
◼
►
first of all you're never going to
◼
►
address like 32 4 gigabytes of RAM
◼
►
gigabytes you can't you can't have four
◼
►
gigabit you know the Mac guys had 128
◼
►
kilobytes of RAM oh yeah even a 24-bit
◼
►
Mary bus preserve so you save money
◼
►
because you have less you know what less
◼
►
room on the chip less traces on your
◼
►
board blah blah so I'm assuming that it
◼
►
wasn't but if there's any part of it is
◼
►
64-bit you can call it 64-bit okay so a
◼
►
little bit of digging as you were
◼
►
talking the are 4200 has a 30 20 trans
◼
►
translation lookaside buffer table the
◼
►
system bus the 64 bits wide and operates
◼
►
at half the internal clock frequency
◼
►
however the are 4300 I which is what I
◼
►
believe was in the n64 is a derivative
◼
►
of that blah blah blah blah blah and a
◼
►
cut-down 32-bit system bus for reduced
◼
►
cost yeah but in marketing for mark
◼
►
needs and by the way like I said lots of
◼
►
times in 32-bit processors the like I
◼
►
know but x86 indexes have a 8080 bit
◼
►
wide floating-point registers doesn't
◼
►
like that I don't remember something I
◼
►
just had to learn how to decode that
◼
►
format yeah but no one ever said it's an
◼
►
80 bit processor just because of
◼
►
convention they just kind of say oh the
◼
►
memory bus and the engine registers
◼
►
that's kind of what we call the
◼
►
processor right that's why it that's why
◼
►
they're marketing terms because 16-bit
◼
►
and 32-bit it might you might think it
◼
►
means something but unless you know
◼
►
exactly what it means it doesn't you
◼
►
know never mind that like the width of
◼
►
the memory bus and the size of integer
◼
►
registers really says nothing about how
◼
►
fast the thing processes stuff like and
◼
►
you know anyway gating speed is hard but
◼
►
there was a clear progression with
◼
►
number of bits up to about the 32-bit
◼
►
point where we hung out for a long time
◼
►
and now that we've gone to 64-bit where
◼
►
we really are 64 bits you know even 64
◼
►
memory bus I don't think we're at full
◼
►
64 what does worth like the Zeon's have
◼
►
they probably have like 48 bit yeah
◼
►
because there was that there was that
◼
►
PAE thing for awhile where I like to
◼
►
address more than I think 16 gigs there
◼
►
was something like that we're like even
◼
►
even the Intel even when Intel went
◼
►
you couldn't address 64 bits
◼
►
worth of memory without certain tricks
◼
►
here and there and I I think that has
◼
►
since been lifted to a pretty high level
◼
►
but but but probably out of full 64 like
◼
►
I I know that you can buy servers with
◼
►
like 200 gigs of RAM in them right but
◼
►
you can't buy servers with however much
◼
►
RAM fits in 64 bits which is some
◼
►
astronomical man right yeah
◼
►
Zeta bytes or whatever the hell it is so
◼
►
we're still saving money in that regard
◼
►
but 64-bit integer registers are gonna
◼
►
run us a good long while and I don't
◼
►
really seem any anything going to
◼
►
personal there's no need for a 128-bit
◼
►
memory bus because we can't even
◼
►
physically put 64 bits of memory like to
◼
►
fill that whole address space and
◼
►
128-bit integers aren't really getting
◼
►
you that much more of problems that you
◼
►
can deal with in 64-bit registers
◼
►
floating-point registers are even wider
◼
►
than they've ever been now - and on GPUs
◼
►
and in sort of the you know media
◼
►
streaming sim D instruction sets those
◼
►
could actually stand to go a little bit
◼
►
wider just to be able to process more
◼
►
values at once because a lot of times
◼
►
they're using like where they call half
◼
►
precision values for games and stuff
◼
►
where you don't need so they'll use
◼
►
they'll still use 16-bit stuff just to
◼
►
pack more into process martin lunch so
◼
►
there's probably Headroom for those two
◼
►
all cranked up to 32 and 64-bit to you
◼
►
know or or could use floating-point
◼
►
everywhere for everything so there's
◼
►
some headroom there but no one brags
◼
►
about GPUs in terms of number bits
◼
►
either because it doesn't make any sense
◼
►
and that's just not how they're marketed
◼
►
so this is a very long-winded
◼
►
explanation that gets into more
◼
►
everything you probably cared about but
◼
►
I think that's that's part of the thing
◼
►
that this was entirely a marketing thing
◼
►
that latched on to a real thing that
◼
►
happened in the progression of certain
◼
►
the width of certain aspects of CPU
◼
►
design in the 70s 80s and 90s that has
◼
►
leveled off because there's no longer
◼
►
any obvious benefit to widening these
◼
►
things at an accelerated rate again
◼
►
setting aside GPUs which there is some
◼
►
benefit to continuing to wide and stuff
◼
►
there and they will continue to be one
◼
►
but GPUs are and marketed in that way so
◼
►
marketing is weird I would also say like
◼
►
you know date like back in you know
◼
►
we're like we grew up in the well Casey
◼
►
and I grew up in these days John was
◼
►
already infected but but you know we're
◼
►
over the time we're like you know like
◼
►
like we we both really saw like the the
◼
►
two 16-bit two 32-bit generations and
◼
►
you know 8-bit systems like they didn't
◼
►
market themselves as 8-bit it was the
◼
►
you know the NES versus the Sega Master
◼
►
you know vast majority dominated by the
◼
►
NES and then the Sega Genesis Mass you
◼
►
know was very heavily marketed when it
◼
►
came out of 16-bit because it was like
◼
►
this is twice as good like that was
◼
►
really like when the marketing I think
◼
►
was a peak like oh my god this is 16-bit
◼
►
and then the Super Nintendo came out and
◼
►
that was you know well marketed to be
◼
►
16-bit as well not as heavily as the
◼
►
Genesis though and then you know we went
◼
►
32-bit with the PlayStation 1 the Sega
◼
►
Saturn and then the generations kind of
◼
►
started being staggered like the n64
◼
►
came out there was a gap between the
◼
►
32-bit generation and the n64 so it
◼
►
started becoming like oh look since
◼
►
there's a gap and the n64 was in many
◼
►
ways significantly better than the
◼
►
Saturn on the PlayStation 1 then it was
◼
►
like this is they were they were kind of
◼
►
trying to say this is the next
◼
►
generation even though it was kind of
◼
►
like a half generational step and like
◼
►
the generations were no longer in sync
◼
►
and then that continued in the future
◼
►
generations like Sega went kind of you
◼
►
know middle of generation with the
◼
►
then the ps2 came out really early and
◼
►
then the Xbox happened like a little bit
◼
►
later so like the generation started to
◼
►
become more staggered and it wasn't all
◼
►
like okay these are the two systems of
◼
►
this one then these are the two systems
◼
►
for this one and then of course this
◼
►
correspondent with us what John was
◼
►
saying highlight the bits kind of
◼
►
stopped growing and stopped mattering
◼
►
the number of bits has so little bearing
◼
►
on modern performance like computers
◼
►
back then especially the kind of
◼
►
computers that were in game consoles
◼
►
were really simple I think once we've
◼
►
got to the era of having many different
◼
►
processors being involved and having
◼
►
them all be pretty complex and then
◼
►
having things like vector instructions
◼
►
which you know take the street like you
◼
►
know you mentioned Cindy and then you
◼
►
have GPUs coming and you have the GPU
◼
►
revolution that's happened like over the
◼
►
last you know you know decade or so
◼
►
we're like GPUs have gotten so
◼
►
incredible and so much of computing is
◼
►
moving to the GPU and that's where so
◼
►
much of the action is happening and
◼
►
they're the bits you know are completely
◼
►
different than the CPU but you know it's
◼
►
it's you know a lot of things don't work
◼
►
the same way or don't matter the same
◼
►
so I think most of the reason we've
◼
►
moved past the bits thing is that you
◼
►
like like you know like Simon asks like
◼
►
how many bits does a modern console have
◼
►
you kind of can't say guys like well how
◼
►
many how many bits in what part do the
◼
►
integer registers of the CPU or the
◼
►
address bus even matter to modern
◼
►
performance or is it like for a game
◼
►
console you're probably looking more
◼
►
more at the GPU than anything else how
◼
►
many bits wide is the GPU you know in
◼
►
various like buses and thing like that
◼
►
like that might matter but even that's
◼
►
hard to compare between different
◼
►
architectures and different generations
◼
►
and everything else like it's just
◼
►
everything is so much more advanced now
◼
►
that it's way more complicated there
◼
►
really is no single number you can say
◼
►
all right this is a you know 128-bit
◼
►
system like you really can't say that
◼
►
anymore and it's not really a relevant
◼
►
question to even ask they do have the
◼
►
numbers that they say though like to
◼
►
that end manufacturers do throw numbers
◼
►
at you but the numbers are no longer
◼
►
about width in most cases although like
◼
►
I said I think they probably will go
◼
►
back to with once they start once the
◼
►
GPU precision starts going up and that
◼
►
starts mattering more in-game so for now
◼
►
they don't say that but what they do
◼
►
tell you is they tell you flops
◼
►
floating-point operations per second
◼
►
from the GPU because that's kind of how
◼
►
they just do this sort of you know my
◼
►
GPU is bigger than your GPU like the
◼
►
architecture is so complicated that no
◼
►
one can comprehend it right no regular
◼
►
people comprehend it but and it's very
◼
►
regular and repeated in those maybe
◼
►
they'll tell you the number of execution
◼
►
units just something a number of engines
◼
►
or a number of building blocks but
◼
►
really want you want to know is
◼
►
floating-point operations per second
◼
►
that's just a big aggregate number that
◼
►
doesn't really have any bearing piece
◼
►
you're never actually maxing it out well
◼
►
maybe if you're really good game
◼
►
developer you might be maxing out for
◼
►
some period of time they'll tell you
◼
►
memory bandwidth which is important for
◼
►
how you can shuffle information to and
◼
►
from your big pool of RAM and to and
◼
►
from the CPU and the GPU and those
◼
►
numbers I think have way more bearing on
◼
►
performance than any kind of width
◼
►
because at least they tell you like I
◼
►
can process this many things in this
◼
►
amount of times that I can ship this
◼
►
many things from A to B and these days
◼
►
that's what people are measuring
◼
►
consoles are and then maybe clock speeds
◼
►
they'll throw in there but really that's
◼
►
not so much they don't do even do that
◼
►
much CPU measuring if there's lots of
◼
►
ways you could measure CP
◼
►
but they don't even really compare those
◼
►
because they know that for the most part
◼
►
especially as we've gone to HD and now
◼
►
4k the GPU is very often the limiting
◼
►
factor so they throw they throw that
◼
►
stuff around so there's always some
◼
►
number that come up with a marketing
◼
►
team to to let people measure their
◼
►
consoles against the let people's
◼
►
consoles but it hasn't been bits for a
◼
►
while and and speaking on the bits thing
◼
►
like and I don't know if this was clear
◼
►
but like the reason the reason it
◼
►
mattered so much back when we were gone
◼
►
to 8 to 16 and 60 and 32 is not just
◼
►
like the count ability of things of
◼
►
saying 65 K is not quite enough I think
◼
►
the the the thing that brings it home is
◼
►
a link that I couldn't find out it tried
◼
►
to Google for it maybe it wouldn't be
◼
►
more successful is to think about what
◼
►
it would be like to build a game on a
◼
►
device that had 8-bit integer registers
◼
►
and no floating-point so you get you get
◼
►
0 to 255 and you have to make a game
◼
►
like that's all you have you can add
◼
►
subtract divide you can do whatever you
◼
►
want with those numbers right but
◼
►
there's no floating point and you can
◼
►
never have a number bigger than 255 and
◼
►
you can ever number smaller than 0 and
◼
►
if you want to do negatives you can you
◼
►
know reserved a bit for sign and have
◼
►
your range right and that's I'm if my
◼
►
memory serves me correctly that is not
◼
►
just a hypothetical exercise that's the
◼
►
original Gameboy and if you think of the
◼
►
some of the games that are arranged in
◼
►
the middle of Gameboy like say you're
◼
►
making a side scroller how do you keep
◼
►
track of where they are on the thing or
◼
►
say you're doing a top view Legend of
◼
►
Zelda where are they on the map how many
◼
►
inventory items do they have like try
◼
►
making a game where you can only count
◼
►
it's really hard you have to be very
◼
►
clever and never mind that oh by the way
◼
►
that's also the thing that's figuring
◼
►
out how to draw the screen and what
◼
►
palettes to go from and had to define
◼
►
sprites and do stuff like that that's
◼
►
why the bits mattered so much because
◼
►
when you went from 8-bit 16-bit suddenly
◼
►
you had enough numbers for counting that
◼
►
you could define bigger color look-up
◼
►
tables and you could make bigger sprites
◼
►
and ship them around and count to higher
◼
►
numbers to make bigger maps and yes of
◼
►
course is the audio processing as you
◼
►
know higher bitrate for audio and stuff
◼
►
like that you would see the result of
◼
►
those bits on the screen
◼
►
the clock speed you don't even care what
◼
►
that was you're just like now I can
◼
►
count the higher numbers now I can keep
◼
►
track of more colors and more things on
◼
►
the screen because I have you know that
◼
►
there's literally you can count the
◼
►
higher number it makes a big difference
◼
►
especially when you don't have
◼
►
floating-point to approximate those
◼
►
things and so the leap from 8 16 to 32
◼
►
were huge partially because of the
◼
►
bidness just because you were so starved
◼
►
you were so starved for the ability to
◼
►
just count and do basic math and keep
◼
►
track of things in the limited
◼
►
architecture but once you can count to 4
◼
►
billion you're probably ok with the
◼
►
counting thing you're probably ok with
◼
►
the number of colors you got all that
◼
►
stuff covered and by the way you have
◼
►
floating-point some of the point along
◼
►
and like floating point comes in so if
◼
►
you really need to do something you can
◼
►
do floating point and so that's why you
◼
►
don't have rehab it's anymore but I
◼
►
think bits were actually super important
◼
►
like Margot said 16-bit was a change you
◼
►
could see so much more than you could
◼
►
see that you know a difference in ps3
◼
►
and ps4 8-bit 16-bit was just like it
◼
►
was bigger than retina it was no one is
◼
►
confused about it and they asked gamer s
◼
►
any asked and nobody is confused it was
◼
►
such a big difference that's kids these
◼
►
days closest thing they have is
◼
►
appreciating how much faster new iPhones
◼
►
are than previous ones because they're
◼
►
still getting faster pretty fast but
◼
►
there is no technological equivalent to
◼
►
8 16 32 bit console progression for
◼
►
people growing up today so far maybe
◼
►
when they get into the holographic
◼
►
things they're biologic or modification
◼
►
it will have even bigger changes but for
◼
►
now you just listen to stories from old
◼
►
people what I would say to like I think
◼
►
one of the biggest reasons why we stop
◼
►
talking about bits is that even the
◼
►
whole concept of having these like
◼
►
console measuring contests just like
◼
►
fell out of relevance because consoles
◼
►
are all so powerful now I don't know
◼
►
anybody who I mean maybe except John who
◼
►
would make a console buying decision
◼
►
based on hardware specs
◼
►
you're you're just down the ride forums
◼
►
that's the console war still exists oh I
◼
►
mean I'm sure I'm sure those people will
◼
►
always talk about it but like I think
◼
►
it's definitely not in the mass market
◼
►
if it ever was even like
◼
►
you don't buy a new consult today
◼
►
because of how many mega flops or
◼
►
teraflops or whatever the unit is today
◼
►
like you don't buy a console today based
◼
►
on that like you know if you're deciding
◼
►
between the you know the xbox of the of
◼
►
the day and the PlayStation of the day
◼
►
and the switch of the day that decision
◼
►
is going to be made based on things like
◼
►
games like like titles that are
◼
►
available for the system's it's gonna be
◼
►
based on things like media features
◼
►
heart like output features like doesn't
◼
►
support 4k or not you know VR potential
◼
►
you know add-on potentially that's gonna
◼
►
be the kind of thing that most people
◼
►
buy their consoles based on these days
◼
►
the hardware is so good now it's you
◼
►
know it's the the the gains that are
◼
►
occurring in the hardware are oftentimes
◼
►
not very relevant in like numeric terms
◼
►
compared to other attributes of the
◼
►
system that aren't necessarily its raw
◼
►
performance so my dad as I've mentioned
◼
►
in the past on this show worked for IBM
◼
►
for almost my entire life and I remember
◼
►
that he was so excited about the cel
◼
►
processor in the PlayStation 3 and was
◼
►
talking to me constantly about it I
◼
►
don't know how much of that was just
◼
►
because he was an IBM ER and it was an
◼
►
IBM processor or at least in part anyway
◼
►
I don't know how much that was like
◼
►
regular people marketing or how much of
◼
►
that was just IBM patting themselves on
◼
►
the back but and John I'm kind of
◼
►
looking to you to clarify but I heard
◼
►
about this Cell processor constantly in
◼
►
about OKC did you hear what they're
◼
►
doing to sell now oh and they're doing
◼
►
this for you know scientific computing
◼
►
oh they're doing this for some other
◼
►
thing you know it's not just about the
◼
►
Playstations it's gonna revolutionize
◼
►
the way computers are built which sort
◼
►
of kind of was sort of kind of wasn't
◼
►
but anyway did did that marketing ever
◼
►
really happen or was that just being the
◼
►
child of an IBM er it it did and like I
◼
►
said there part of the reason you don't
◼
►
see as much of that these days it's just
◼
►
because the consoles became so similar
◼
►
because the the ability to create the
◼
►
stuff that goes into consoles started to
◼
►
go so far outside the realm of console
◼
►
developers ability they could they
◼
►
couldn't even like outsource it and say
◼
►
we want you to build you a CPU like this
◼
►
just because it cost so much money and
◼
►
so they started to have to pool their
◼
►
resources and it would be like Nvidia's
◼
►
got a lot of GPUs and we can customize
◼
►
one of our GPUs for your thing but we're
◼
►
not gonna build you a fresh GPU from
◼
►
scratch just for your thing we can
◼
►
cobble together something out of like
◼
►
leftover bits of the last generation of
◼
►
our desktop parts site and there's no
◼
►
way you Nintendo or Microsoft or Sony
◼
►
are gonna design here on CPU from
◼
►
scratch like forget it so how about
◼
►
everybody just uses PowerPC cpus of a
◼
►
couple of different variants and AMD ATI
◼
►
GPUs and so we have whole generation of
◼
►
consoles with PowerPC TV CPUs cobbled
◼
►
together from cores that were used in
◼
►
like Mac's slightly modified and ATI at
◼
►
that time GPUs and in this generation
◼
►
you've got x86 CPUs from AMD they're in
◼
►
the PlayStation and the Xbox that use
◼
►
that and GPUs from AMD also very similar
◼
►
very off-the-shelf parts so what are you
◼
►
gonna brag about right and so the sell
◼
►
was different the sell was probably the
◼
►
last the last gasp of we want a
◼
►
radically different thing that is not
◼
►
just a bunch of PowerPC your x86 CPU
◼
►
core store and although there were
◼
►
PowerPC cores in there because you can't
◼
►
do everything from scratch but it's
◼
►
gonna be really weird really different
◼
►
really exotic and have lots of
◼
►
interesting ideas in it and to make that
◼
►
happen they had to convince IBM or IBM
◼
►
had to convince itself that like your
◼
►
dad said it's not just about the
◼
►
PlayStation there's gonna be lots of
◼
►
applications for the sale and we user of
◼
►
this and we can use with that to justify
◼
►
the massive investment they put in
◼
►
partnership with all these other people
◼
►
to make this thing and they did reuse
◼
►
PowerPC cores for certains for the like
◼
►
the effort where they call it the PPEs
◼
►
right both for the SPU's they made these
◼
►
other little cores and they made this
◼
►
ring bus and everything and it was a
◼
►
really cool really interesting cpu
◼
►
architecture like go read the articles
◼
►
about the cell it is it is novel and
◼
►
interesting and has lots of ideas from
◼
►
like supercomputing and other things in
◼
►
a small package totally a technological
◼
►
feat so your dad was right to be excited
◼
►
about it but to Marco's point you know
◼
►
people don't care about that
◼
►
they just care about the games
◼
►
to your point Casey Sony did market the
◼
►
exoticness of the cell as much as they
◼
►
could they were all about the cell is
◼
►
different than other people's things and
◼
►
Sony's pitch was it's different in a way
◼
►
that will make you have amazing things
◼
►
in reality it was different in a way
◼
►
that will make it very difficult to
◼
►
write dev tools that work to it because
◼
►
it doesn't work like any other game
◼
►
console and it was very difficult to
◼
►
write a program that efficiently used
◼
►
all those resources because it was
◼
►
honestly not quite a good balance in
◼
►
resources you really had to figure out
◼
►
how to orchestrate them just so you were
◼
►
using them all to their maximum extent
◼
►
and not leaving any idle and it was just
◼
►
it took years and years for the best
◼
►
developers game developers in the world
◼
►
to figure out how to ring all the
◼
►
performance out of the cell by the time
◼
►
the Last of Us came out it's like wow
◼
►
ps3 is pretty powerful gonna do some
◼
►
pretty amazing stuff but it's still kind
◼
►
of unbalanced and the whole system is
◼
►
kind of RAM starved and I wish it had
◼
►
more of this and a little bit of that
◼
►
and it's the you know this is the case
◼
►
you must love this because the current
◼
►
generation of consoles and you know for
◼
►
a while now it's been the American
◼
►
approach of there's no substitute for
◼
►
cubic inches you know you can give it a
◼
►
ton of RAM give it a big powerful x86
◼
►
CPU and like a cut-down desktop GPU done
◼
►
and done no exotic architecture needed
◼
►
solve the problem by throwing by
◼
►
throwing this placement that's what
◼
►
they're throwing it right and it's easy
◼
►
to develop for it because it's kind of
◼
►
the same you know PC game console
◼
►
whatever you can x86 CPU GPU that you
◼
►
familiar with 3d api's that you're
◼
►
familiar with amateur toolchain and
◼
►
everything that's what people want and
◼
►
that's what they have so the sell
◼
►
approach was technologically really cool
◼
►
and interesting and they did market the
◼
►
really cool interesting part of it but
◼
►
it ended up making a console that didn't
◼
►
produce the results in terms of cool fun
◼
►
novel games that Sony wanted it to and
◼
►
so everybody learned the lesson of that
◼
►
including Sony and the ps4 was like a
◼
►
giant apology about the ps3 the ps4
◼
►
fixed everything that was wrong with the
◼
►
ps3 it was so conventional so
◼
►
straightforward had so much friggin RAM
◼
►
was so simple to develop for that's why
◼
►
the ps3 did so much better than the ps4
◼
►
did so much better than the ps3 that
◼
►
went on longer than expected but that
◼
►
was that was awesome so thank you John
◼
►
for telling us a bottle of skåne
◼
►
consoles they're great
◼
►
I won't argue with you but I've been
◼
►
really liking my switch lately as I keep
◼
►
bringing up over and over again that
◼
►
uses an off-the-shelf NVIDIA Tegra x1
◼
►
because Nintendo can't even afford to
◼
►
have people make mildly custom things
◼
►
really I love the switch I'm so it is
◼
►
the system I and and you know it is
◼
►
assume that I've been happiest with you
◼
►
know it's basically since my Genesis
◼
►
like that's I have not had a game system
◼
►
since my Genesis that I was dis happy
◼
►
with and it has almost nothing to do
◼
►
with the processor or the GPU I have no
◼
►
idea what it has in it I I didn't look
◼
►
at that when getting it I haven't
◼
►
thought to look at that since I have no
◼
►
idea how it compares to the Xbox 17 or
◼
►
whatever the hell Xbox is the current
◼
►
Xbox way less powerful that's how I
◼
►
could probably but it doesn't matter at
◼
►
all like it just doesn't because what
◼
►
matters is the games and the games are
◼
►
awesome like that's that that to me is
◼
►
so much more important than any of the
◼
►
specs and like I'm just I'm incredibly
◼
►
happy with my game console and I have no
◼
►
idea what's in it so it does matter in
◼
►
that if it was really difficult to
◼
►
develop for the switch it would take
◼
►
longer to make games that are up to the
◼
►
standards that you're currently playing
◼
►
them right and if there were fewer games
◼
►
because not as many developers would be
◼
►
able to to you know so like there is
◼
►
there are aspects of a technology that
◼
►
impact like how do we end up with good
◼
►
games you need to have a minimum
◼
►
baseline of like oh I can develop games
◼
►
to this and it's not too weird and I can
◼
►
develop them efficiently with skills I
◼
►
already have without encountering too
◼
►
many bugs without having to learn an
◼
►
entirely new custom dev environment and
◼
►
3d API and toolchain and everything like
◼
►
that's a part of the technology
◼
►
selection that does impact the part that
◼
►
you care about I would also argue that
◼
►
the power of the system also influences
◼
►
what you care about but it's clear that
◼
►
the switch is a compromise between a
◼
►
plugged into the wall TV connected
◼
►
console and a portable one so they made
◼
►
they have to make compromises in power
◼
►
and it is less powerful and I think that
◼
►
decrease in power gives you the huge
◼
►
benefits of portability which according
◼
►
to defend those surveys that they're
◼
►
running tons of people use this in
◼
►
portable mode so they made the right
◼
►
choice there but the downside is that
◼
►
games that are possible on the ps4 and
◼
►
Xbox one X and especially the Xbox one X
◼
►
and but also the Xbox one may not be
◼
►
possible on the switch and so they won't
◼
►
even get ports or if they do get ports
◼
►
they'll be cut down ports which means
◼
►
that most people want to play them other
◼
►
consoles right so power is still think
◼
►
the thing that Apple needs to Apple in
◼
►
tender needs to keep up with there there
◼
►
are rumors that Nintendo actually is
◼
►
going to come out with a sort of a
◼
►
switch Pro with a more powerful probably
◼
►
nvidia tegra x2 maybe chip inside it
◼
►
again probably off the shelf because
◼
►
that's the thing they're doing these
◼
►
days is making speck bumped versions of
◼
►
existing consoles that nevertheless play
◼
►
all the old games sort of like a
◼
►
generation and a half type thing and the
◼
►
reason they do that is like the Nintendo
◼
►
also knows if we make this more powerful
◼
►
we it expands the realm of the kind of
◼
►
games we can make the breadth of the
◼
►
wilds follow up if there ever is one for
◼
►
the switch but whatever platform it's on
◼
►
we'll be able to have a more detailed
◼
►
more expansive world than this one was
◼
►
in the same way that you could never do
◼
►
breath of the wild on a Wii U or are we
◼
►
like that better game that we all love
◼
►
it just care about the games you can't
◼
►
do that game on less powerful consoles
◼
►
because the world is too big the draw
◼
►
businesses are too large doesn't have
◼
►
the you know the heart of our software
◼
►
to set for all the level of detail stuff
◼
►
doesn't have the RAM so on and so forth
◼
►
so technology does enable good games and
◼
►
has to be pursued but absolute spec
◼
►
numbers are not the end-all be-all
◼
►
because if you add up all the
◼
►
theoretical floating-point operations of
◼
►
the cell could do it looks like it's
◼
►
amazing monster CPU when in the end
◼
►
people couldn't even figure out how to
◼
►
use half of it and half the launch games
◼
►
we're leaving leaving huge swaths of the
◼
►
surface area the silicon surface area of
◼
►
the chip idle because they just couldn't
◼
►
figure out how to even use all those
◼
►
cores and their engine only knew how to
◼
►
use like one or two so they would use
◼
►
one or two and leave half the hardware
◼
►
idle like the launch games that's not a
◼
►
good situation and just put a period on
◼
►
this four hour ask ATP hey I really love
◼
►
having the ability to pop the switch out
◼
►
of the dock and just walk around with it
◼
►
and I might be the only one I mean
◼
►
obviously what you said John is that it
◼
►
sounds like in in Nintendo is seeing a
◼
►
lot of that but they released there is
◼
►
some numbers like we surveyed their
◼
►
users like something that Apple never
◼
►
how often do you use your switch docks
◼
►
portable and both and like the number
◼
►
like the number of people who are like
◼
►
me and Marco who only use a docked was
◼
►
very small it was like 20% or something
◼
►
and 80% of people are using a portable
◼
►
at least some of the time yeah yeah and
◼
►
I use it probably half and half to be
◼
►
honest which I know is probably barbaric
◼
►
to you but you know it is what it is all
◼
►
right so we'll try to do an abridged a
◼
►
couple of ask ATP's to round this out
◼
►
Johnny Oh would like to know hey what's
◼
►
he writes please explain to the nerd
◼
►
crowd the concept of being a sports team
◼
►
fan I don't understand why people refer
◼
►
to my team etc unless they've actually
◼
►
played for that team well you've written
◼
►
into the right podcast Johnny er
◼
►
supports experts here now we can cover
◼
►
this quickly so Sports is about more
◼
►
than just as with anything in life is
◼
►
about more than just looking at the the
◼
►
quote unquote ones and zeros of it and
◼
►
looking kind of a little bit deeper and
◼
►
so let's talk about my team so I went to
◼
►
school at Virginia Tech in Blacksburg
◼
►
Virginia and Virginia Tech had at the
◼
►
time this was in the very early 2000s
◼
►
had a exceptionally great football team
◼
►
that was quarterbacked by Michael Vick
◼
►
who ended up being a not so
◼
►
exceptionally great human being the
◼
►
dukey's home pods but are they whatever
◼
►
there we go yep yeah so the reason we
◼
►
would one would be enthusiastic about
◼
►
that is because in the case of college
◼
►
sports that's your peers like they were
◼
►
also students of the same University
◼
►
that are playing in this Gill National
◼
►
Arena and so why is it my team because I
◼
►
was also a student at Virginia Tech just
◼
►
like because you went to school in the
◼
►
same and same school that they did right
◼
►
so you were there right and they were
◼
►
there right so doesn't it make it our
◼
►
time you don't get that reference stop
◼
►
laughing Margo no I'm laughing at the
◼
►
ridiculousness of this situation like
◼
►
you're right I don't the reference but
◼
►
like like I like like when I was in high
◼
►
school I was in the marching band for
◼
►
the football team right so like I was
◼
►
literally at every football game sitting
◼
►
30 feet from the football players
◼
►
watching the whole game participating in
◼
►
like playing music to encourage them and
◼
►
celebrate victories in the game and I
◼
►
still wouldn't say we won okay I would
◼
►
never like my team our team like it was
◼
►
literally I was right there I was
◼
►
somewhat involved I would never thought
◼
►
that way this is my team I couldn't give
◼
►
less of a craft they did I think gays KC
◼
►
is explaining is an accurate explanation
◼
►
of why people feel it's their team yeah
◼
►
I just I was my kind of thing snarky and
◼
►
I'm silly but I think people who go to
◼
►
the school do feel it's their team
◼
►
because they go to the same school
◼
►
despite the fact that I feel like most
◼
►
college athletes especially biased love
◼
►
are really going to a different school
◼
►
than you are oh that's variance of
◼
►
school in your experience of school
◼
►
absolutely but it is still your school
◼
►
and you are going to it and so are they
◼
►
yeah and and this is also applicable for
◼
►
professional sports except it's a much
◼
►
more nebulous Association that the
◼
►
school is your state and/or region
◼
►
exactly so country for the Toronto
◼
►
vision right so if you look at a
◼
►
professional sports team it's often that
◼
►
it's the team that either your family
◼
►
has been rooting for so as an example
◼
►
I'm a fan of the New York Giants and my
◼
►
grandfather my mother's father has been
◼
►
a Giants fan pretty much since the
◼
►
franchise started and so I just grew up
◼
►
watching the Giants such as what we did
◼
►
and at the time we lived in the New York
◼
►
area and so it made sense for that to be
◼
►
our team because of geographic proximity
◼
►
where this really falls apart is all the
◼
►
completely that all the people who are
◼
►
woefully uninformed and think that the
◼
►
Dallas Cowboys or the Pittsburgh
◼
►
Steelers are good football teams with
◼
►
the notable exception of the 10 fans
◼
►
from each team that actually live in
◼
►
Dallas or Pittsburgh because if you ever
◼
►
notice an NFL fan generally speaking
◼
►
they either like the Cowboys or the
◼
►
Steelers and generally speaking they
◼
►
have no association with either
◼
►
Pittsburgh or Dallas not that I'm bitter
◼
►
that's old football fans who remember
◼
►
when the Cowboys and steals Steelers
◼
►
they win Super Bowls isn't it now about
◼
►
like Cowboys versus the cheaters it's
◼
►
really purses anybody and then the
◼
►
cheaters are John's team actually and I
◼
►
don't have a team well cuz your team is
◼
►
cheaters yes I wouldn't want to claim
◼
►
I wasn't rooting for the Patriots in the
◼
►
so anyway so the idea is that take
◼
►
something that you either participated
◼
►
in as a kid so as an example I played a
◼
►
little bit of basketball as a kid and
◼
►
imagine watching something that you can
◼
►
do all right but watching some watching
◼
►
somebody who is a professional at that
◼
►
thing and it's just it's it's almost
◼
►
poetic watching how good they are at
◼
►
that particular skill in that particular
◼
►
sport that's what's that's what's fun
◼
►
about it and then when you add in that
◼
►
kind of ownership either by way of a
◼
►
school affiliation or geographic
◼
►
it just becomes fun and you know why
◼
►
would you watch somebody play a video
◼
►
game right it's the same thing now maybe
◼
►
you wouldn't claim that that's your team
◼
►
within the video game but many games
◼
►
have teams now to though point you sport
◼
►
eSports actually do have teams and the
◼
►
teams are original and they're so
◼
►
they're trying to adopt that model yeah
◼
►
but you get the idea is that imagine
◼
►
it's something that you do but it's some
◼
►
other people that do it a hell of a lot
◼
►
better than you will ever do it and it's
◼
►
just cool to watch and plus you know
◼
►
games are fun games are fun to watch
◼
►
games are fun to play and so it's just a
◼
►
confluence of all of that and I have a
◼
►
feeling that Johnny oh you're gonna
◼
►
listen to this and be like yeah that
◼
►
didn't convince me at all and that's
◼
►
okay not it sports aren't for everyone
◼
►
and I'm not a crazy sports person that
◼
►
watches ESPN all day every day and lives
◼
►
for SportsCenter or anything like that I
◼
►
just enjoy football and occasionally a
◼
►
couple other sports too well the
◼
►
question was about why do I endorse was
◼
►
about why being a sports team fan of
◼
►
having my team I think you did address
◼
►
that but like it doesn't I don't think
◼
►
the question was like why are sports and
◼
►
durable period like just to see
◼
►
achievement a human achievement or
◼
►
whatever it's about the fandom and my
◼
►
team type of thing to that end if I was
◼
►
to give my short version of the answer
◼
►
this would be that sports are a socially
◼
►
acceptable outlet for xenophobia well
◼
►
that's who that - not that I was making
◼
►
fun of Pittsburgh Steelers or Dallas
◼
►
Cowboys fans at all just moments ago all
◼
►
Tee tee on air writes hey I know you're
◼
►
not a big fan of Facebook and what they
◼
►
do with their data how do you guys feel
◼
►
about this whole Instagram thing since
◼
►
Instagram is owned by Facebook and I
◼
►
don't have a good answer for this I will
◼
►
be the first to tell you I do not have a
◼
►
good answer for this and my answer is I
◼
►
freaking love Instagram and I'm gonna
◼
►
Steele Marcos line and say it's my happy
◼
►
place and because it's my happy place
◼
►
despite the fact that they're insistent
◼
►
on trying to ruin it I'm going to keep
◼
►
using it until I have an even more
◼
►
compelling reason not to use it I will I
◼
►
do have a Facebook account I
◼
►
occasionally look at it I would happily
◼
►
get rid of my Facebook account
◼
►
long before I would get rid of my
◼
►
Instagram account and that's just a
◼
►
choice I'm making I'm not saying it's a
◼
►
good choice I'm not saying it's
◼
►
reasonable I'm not saying it's not
◼
►
hypocritical or backwards or whatever
◼
►
but it's just my choice Marco yeah I
◼
►
mean this it's a really like I talked a
◼
►
little bit on Twitter about this earlier
◼
►
like it's hard because you know the the
◼
►
tech giant's are so big like Facebook
◼
►
owns so much stuff if you're trying to
◼
►
for instance get off all Facebook
◼
►
services what if you're in one of the
◼
►
many parts of the world where whatsapp
◼
►
is like the default messaging platform
◼
►
like that's that applies to a lot of
◼
►
places to a lot of people there's a
◼
►
reason why Facebook bought it for what
◼
►
was like 19 billion dollars or something
◼
►
like that like it's everywhere in
◼
►
certain places like it I know it's kind
◼
►
of oxymoron but like it's like because
◼
►
whatsapp is not very big in the US so
◼
►
like US residents might not realize how
◼
►
big of a deal it is but everywhere else
◼
►
in the world whatsapp is huge and really
◼
►
is like it you know it's bigger than SMS
◼
►
it's bigger than messaging it's bigger
◼
►
than iMessage like it's bigger than
◼
►
everything in certain parts of the world
◼
►
just to tell somebody like oh well
◼
►
Facebook happens to own that and
◼
►
Facebook is a terrible company and so
◼
►
you should quit you know everything of
◼
►
theirs including whatsapp that could
◼
►
really have a pretty significant
◼
►
negative impact on on someone's life if
◼
►
they're in an area where like whatsapp
◼
►
is it's big for them this and it's hard
◼
►
like I I love the idea of like dropping
◼
►
a tech giant that that is you know being
◼
►
you know horrible to people or to its
◼
►
company or to data or whatever else in
◼
►
some cases it's easier than others like
◼
►
when uber is being terrible which
◼
►
happens all the time like you know a lot
◼
►
of us move to lift like I did I haven't
◼
►
used uber since all that crap and
◼
►
whatever it was like a year ago saying
◼
►
I've been using lyft and it's you know
◼
►
what it's totally fine because every
◼
►
everywhere I've been like I don't I
◼
►
don't use ride-sharing that often
◼
►
usually it's only like when I'm
◼
►
traveling somewhere but you know every
◼
►
time I've used I've like hired a lift it
◼
►
and totally fine but there are certain
◼
►
regions where like lift just doesn't
◼
►
really serve or doesn't serve anywhere
◼
►
near well enough to be useful and so
◼
►
people there have to use you know suck
◼
►
it up and use uber and I'm not gonna
◼
►
tell them like don't use any of these
◼
►
services like if they sometimes that's
◼
►
sometimes that's your only option so
◼
►
it's it and so with Facebook like they
◼
►
own so much and and a lot of what they
◼
►
own you know both things like whatsapp
◼
►
and and Instagram instagrams little bit
◼
►
of a special case which get to in a
◼
►
second but like you know this stuff they
◼
►
own like whatsapp and the core Facebook
◼
►
service itself for a lot of people they
◼
►
can just drop this stuff and it's no big
◼
►
and that's great I encourage you to but
◼
►
for a lot of people like if they aren't
◼
►
on Facebook they can no longer see like
◼
►
the pictures of their shoulder of their
◼
►
grandchildren because that's the only
◼
►
place where people post them or like
◼
►
like like I have never been a really
◼
►
active Facebook user I've never like
◼
►
posted stuff to Facebook or anything
◼
►
else but I do regularly check to
◼
►
communities on Facebook because that's
◼
►
the only place that these communities
◼
►
exist one of them is for our summer
◼
►
place and one of them is for the local
◼
►
school like there's like a group of like
◼
►
parents for the local school on Facebook
◼
►
and a lot of times that is the the first
◼
►
the best or sometimes the only place
◼
►
that certain very relevant news or info
◼
►
is posted and this applies like lots of
◼
►
people they're kind of stuck using
◼
►
Facebook for this reason because there's
◼
►
some kind of community or something that
◼
►
that only posts incredibly important to
◼
►
them information on Facebook so it's
◼
►
really hard to tell people like that you
◼
►
should stop using Facebook because the
◼
►
impact of them not using Facebook like
◼
►
like the cost to Facebook of one less
◼
►
account is probably virtually nothing
◼
►
compared to the cost in that person's
◼
►
life of not having access to these
◼
►
communities or this information that is
◼
►
posted there so it's hard to make that
◼
►
argument that people who were in a
◼
►
situation like that should do it and I
◼
►
made the analogy earlier on Twitter it's
◼
►
it's kind of like when people get mad
◼
►
because they have like a bad experience
◼
►
with a flight and they try to like swear
◼
►
forever and there's like five airlines
◼
►
and like they don't they don't all go to
◼
►
all the same places so like like you
◼
►
know if you live in say like a hub for
◼
►
United and United and you get you have a
◼
►
bad experience on United but just common
◼
►
it's terrible like what are you gonna do
◼
►
we're off united it was like if you live
◼
►
somewhere that's one of their hubs and
◼
►
all the flights going in and out are
◼
►
united you're gonna have a really hard
◼
►
time flying anywhere after that and
◼
►
there's not that many airlines so if you
◼
►
if you swear one off when you have a bad
◼
►
experience and you eat say you're never
◼
►
gonna fly with them again that starts to
◼
►
impact your life pretty significantly
◼
►
without too much time and so I feel like
◼
►
the tech giants are in a similar
◼
►
situation where like they owned so much
◼
►
and so much of so many views of these
◼
►
like big tech services are so critical
◼
►
to people's lives and many of them don't
◼
►
have direct alternatives or direct or
◼
►
they have such lock into certain
◼
►
communities that's very it's kind of
◼
►
unrealistic to expect people to move in
◼
►
mass that it's really hard to just tell
◼
►
people like you shouldn't use everything
◼
►
Instagram is is a bit of a special case
◼
►
because to a lot of people Instagram is
◼
►
not critical you know it's not like it
◼
►
isn't often like part of your job or
◼
►
anything but like like for me if I quit
◼
►
Instagram I would lose access to a lot
◼
►
of like my friends and my family's
◼
►
photos because that's where they all
◼
►
post them you know and like they don't
◼
►
have blogs they don't have websites we
◼
►
don't have photo shares elsewhere and
◼
►
maybe we could try to set some up but
◼
►
like that that becomes a much harder
◼
►
problem for like for me to be taking a
◼
►
political stance to say I don't want to
◼
►
use Facebook stuff anymore to then try
◼
►
to convince all my friends and family
◼
►
and people I don't know very well who I
◼
►
just enjoy their photos like hey you
◼
►
know can you instead start posting these
◼
►
over here or in addition start postings
◼
►
over here like it becomes a much harder
◼
►
harder proposition and you know I could
◼
►
I would be fine without Facebook I would
◼
►
just lose access to these communities
◼
►
that are occasionally useful to me and
◼
►
I'd be fine with that Instagram I would
◼
►
be less happy there certain like just
◼
►
you know inertia that in that
◼
►
like I've been on Instagram since I
◼
►
think 2010 my entire you know like the
◼
►
entire life I have here in the suburbs
◼
►
that includes the house my dog the
◼
►
entire life of my son has all been
◼
►
cataloged routinely on Instagram every
◼
►
year TIFF makes a photo book of
◼
►
Instagram photos for our family that's
◼
►
kind of like our families aren't like
◼
►
our family photo albums are like these
◼
►
Instagram books like it would it would
◼
►
disrupt a lot of that stuff and so I
◼
►
it's hard for me to overstate how much I
◼
►
dislike and disrespect Facebook the
◼
►
people who run Facebook the the idea of
◼
►
Facebook and and just the horrible
◼
►
amoral you know morally bankrupt people
◼
►
they're included right at the top right
◼
►
up to Zuckerberg and Sheryl Sandberg
◼
►
right at the top like they are morally
◼
►
bankrupt horrible people doing horrible
◼
►
things and that's also not very new
◼
►
that's it's not like this just started
◼
►
happening and this 2016 election like
◼
►
this is not new at all they always have
◼
►
been horrible people doing horrible
◼
►
things they're spineless turds and
◼
►
cowards I really really do not like them
◼
►
but I also can't totally avoid their
◼
►
services and retain like access to
◼
►
certain information that I need and want
◼
►
and you know the the joy and family and
◼
►
friends connections I get through
◼
►
Instagram so it's it's hard to avoid
◼
►
it's it's not a simple thing it isn't it
◼
►
isn't so simple to say like you know you
◼
►
know are you being hypocritical by still
◼
►
using it or you know why haven't you
◼
►
quit yet like to a lot of people it's
◼
►
more complicated than that and it's it
◼
►
isn't it's a bigger calculus than just
◼
►
like do you like these people or not
◼
►
because I hate those people but I still
◼
►
you know I've decided that the that like
◼
►
the statement I would make by leaving is
◼
►
too small to for the the cost it would
◼
►
be to me in my life you call those
◼
►
services too big to bail I guess
◼
►
Wow I see what you did there that's
◼
►
where you buy the cricket oh yeah
◼
►
definitely not affect in there I think
◼
►
that was quality commands you would like
◼
►
you would like to get out of them but
◼
►
they're just too big you can't convince
◼
►
everybody um so two things one I'm going
◼
►
to remind the world and the recording
◼
►
that I'm speaking into to take credit
◼
►
for the airline analogy you just make is
◼
►
I'm pretty sure I made that exact same
◼
►
one a couple years ago although you
◼
►
probably don't remember also I'm pretty
◼
►
sure jar Mark made it before you yeah no
◼
►
it's it's Turtles all the way down no I
◼
►
mean like in real life not in a podcast
◼
►
sometimes I say things that aren't
◼
►
recorded on podcast did you really save
◼
►
them then yeah this is not recording who
◼
►
can tell and two I'm going to predict
◼
►
that three weeks from now or so there
◼
►
will be a podcast featuring me where I
◼
►
talk about this very same issue at
◼
►
length and so I'm not going to talk
◼
►
about at length here so if you're
◼
►
interested in hearing that discussion
◼
►
that will probably happen sometime in
◼
►
the next three weeks you can check out
◼
►
reconcilable differences on real aid fm
◼
►
I look forward to hearing that in six to
◼
►
eight weeks erectus is by the way one of
◼
►
my favorite podcasts in the entire world
◼
►
I love that show so much yeah it's quite
◼
►
good you really should be you the
◼
►
listeners should really be listening to
◼
►
that if you're not already and and not
◼
►
unlike this show the shows do tend to
◼
►
run a little long but they are worth
◼
►
every damn minute so you should be
◼
►
checking that out thanks to our sponsors
◼
►
this week betterment Squarespace and
◼
►
insta bug and we'll see you next week
◼
►
now the show is over they didn't even
◼
►
mean to begin because it was accidental
◼
►
oh it was accidental johnny research
◼
►
Margo and Casey wouldn't let him cuz it
◼
►
was accidentally was accidental you can
◼
►
find a CAS URL is Esther that's Casey
◼
►
less and a are Co a RM auntie Marco
◼
►
a lot of people have been reaching out
◼
►
and saying hey Casey have you thought
◼
►
about the Kea stinger GT you should
◼
►
think about it it's a nice car it's not
◼
►
that nice it's nice be upset in it see
◼
►
it in like the interior in d2 pedals but
◼
►
otherwise if you you know other than
◼
►
that mrs. Lincoln how did you enjoy the
◼
►
play otherwise it sounds nice
◼
►
it did ty BMW 340 I and in comparison
◼
►
test which shows just how far BMWs
◼
►
fallen I think I mentioned that in a
◼
►
past show BMWs I actually occurred to me
◼
►
just the other day I was saying this to
◼
►
somebody shoot I don't remember who was
◼
►
but it wasn't on a podcast I guess I
◼
►
never said it I was walking back up the
◼
►
driveway from getting the Mayall and I
◼
►
looked at the garage and I looked at
◼
►
Aaron's car and went to my car I looked
◼
►
at my car for a while and it occurred to
◼
►
me just a few years ago like especially
◼
►
in 2013 for example when when Marco and
◼
►
me and underscore went to the driving
◼
►
school just a few years ago I would have
◼
►
said I was pretty much equally into
◼
►
Apple and BMW like that was during the
◼
►
heyday of my BMW loved speaking of
◼
►
heydays and I loved both of those brands
◼
►
more than almost anything and I don't
◼
►
really give a crap about BMW anymore I
◼
►
feel like I've been so let down by this
◼
►
one this one experience and I know I
◼
►
shouldn't judge all BMWs forever more
◼
►
based on one somewhat crummy almost
◼
►
lemon but I just I can't find myself I
◼
►
can't find myself getting excited by BMW
◼
►
anymore yeah I'm also I mean I think I'm
◼
►
in a very similar boat but may even
◼
►
workstream like BMWs doesn't relevant to
◼
►
me anymore like I you know when I moved
◼
►
to Tesla like I didn't realize quite how
◼
►
different it would be and quite how much
◼
►
it would make all other cars
◼
►
it's just seem like the past by
◼
►
comparison in multiple ways not just the
◼
►
drivetrain but like you know like the
◼
►
just hat you know that the big
◼
►
touchscreen having the some of the more
◼
►
like smart useful little features the
◼
►
the the practicalities of just like the
◼
►
giant hatchback and how much space how
◼
►
much cargo space there isn't it it's
◼
►
super nice like yesterday I brought I
◼
►
had a flat tire my bike it had to get a
◼
►
new inner tube but I don't know how to
◼
►
do that so I brought my bike to the
◼
►
store in town to have them do it and I
◼
►
fit this giant you know 27.5 Plus
◼
►
semi-fat bike in the back of my car and
◼
►
I opened the open the truck it doesn't
◼
►
fit with a lot of leeway but it does fit
◼
►
and like I open the trunk when I got
◼
►
there like parked in the street and I
◼
►
pulled this giant bike out there's this
◼
►
I'm like wow you just pulled that out of
◼
►
that car like it's so nice anyway yeah I
◼
►
I kind of have the a similar feeling of
◼
►
like like I have no interest in like go
◼
►
on a test drive the new m5 or anything
◼
►
like that like and that's why it's one
◼
►
of the reasons why it was so hard for me
◼
►
to answer that question a few weeks ago
◼
►
of like you know what car would you have
◼
►
if you couldn't have you know this
◼
►
thing's the Tesla like I I really have
◼
►
no idea I'm not interested in any other
◼
►
cars at all and you know again maybe
◼
►
that will change in the future you know
◼
►
when there's more electric options from
◼
►
everybody but honestly I don't
◼
►
anticipate that changing in the near
◼
►
future I think it's what we're gonna be
◼
►
a far future thing but anyway I I'm
◼
►
totally with you like what BMW the
◼
►
direction they've gone in has has
◼
►
seemingly been you know significantly
◼
►
more mass luxury market like obviously
◼
►
going after a lot of what were probably
◼
►
formerly Alexis customers and you know
◼
►
that a lot of that came at the cost of
◼
►
the enthusiasts Joby's not gonna get any
◼
►
like Cisco surahs lesson customers need
◼
►
reliability they're going after Mercedes
◼
►
customers reliability but want a softer
◼
►
car yeah that's fair yeah but it was
◼
►
kind of funny that like kind of like the
◼
►
the decline of BMWs appeal to us has
◼
►
correspondant somewhat to the decline of
◼
►
Apple's appeal to us it's kind of sad
◼
►
hi you took them you took my moment cuz
◼
►
I was about to say the same that was
◼
►
obvious you can't blame me for that but
◼
►
still but nah right you can have any but
◼
►
I mean I shouldn't cut you off it Here I
◼
►
am so since I have I feel of
◼
►
very similarly but way way way less so
◼
►
about Apple that there are things that
◼
►
are annoying me about Apple that never
◼
►
used to annoy me you know and will and
◼
►
I'll beat up on Siri just briefly
◼
►
because that's the most obvious example
◼
►
like you know anytime I go to use Siri
◼
►
I'm just died a little inside not
◼
►
literally of course that's a bit what
◼
►
support I'm looking for hyperbolic I
◼
►
don't whatever anyway it's a bit extreme
◼
►
but but nevertheless it's like it annoys
◼
►
me every time in a way that Apple stuff
◼
►
used to delight me every time
◼
►
consistently that I touched it and and I
◼
►
feel you know I feel like it's this
◼
►
vector is the same direction but a far
◼
►
smaller magnitude that I'm getting I'm
◼
►
finding myself not is emotionally like
◼
►
excited by Apple stuff as I was in the
◼
►
past now there are exceptions like just
◼
►
the other day I looked down at my iPhone
◼
►
10 and I was like you know what this is
◼
►
a really awesome phone and having that
◼
►
swipe gesture has made everything better
◼
►
and in the lack of a home button like
◼
►
face ID still does drive me nuts in a
◼
►
few hey he's put by and large it's so
◼
►
cool and so I'm not trying to say that
◼
►
I've like lost hope and Apple by any
◼
►
means but and certainly the alternatives
◼
►
that's we've gone around and around
◼
►
about numerous times on the show the
◼
►
alternatives are not really alternatives
◼
►
but but nevertheless I I find myself
◼
►
getting similarly disappoint yeah I'm
◼
►
not mad I'm disappointed in you Apple
◼
►
and and that's that's a bummer because
◼
►
it's I mean it's just a company right
◼
►
like it and here again like have to come
◼
►
back to the SKT P about sports like
◼
►
Apple is kind of my team and Marco I'm
◼
►
definitely taking a page out of your
◼
►
PlayBook on that one cuz you've made
◼
►
this point for years that Apple was kind
◼
►
of your team and I feel like my team
◼
►
isn't it's not a slump that's that's
◼
►
dramatic but my team is not winning
◼
►
championships left and right like they
◼
►
used to be and that's that's a little
◼
►
yeah and it's I think it's especially
◼
►
it's a little depressing when you don't
◼
►
have something else to replace that
◼
►
have something else to replace that
◼
►
it's gonna be long you know long drive
◼
►
but I bought walkie-talkies so that we
◼
►
could be like Top Gear stuff ain't gonna
◼
►
find out how crappy walkie-talkies are
◼
►
compared to modern digital cell network
◼
►
just start calling each other yeah but
◼
►
they're really fast like that something
◼
►
like you just push a button and talk
◼
►
that's like no linear static type type
◼
►
type you know I got decent ones right
◼
►
when I said the modern digital cell
◼
►
network I meant with the voice like you
◼
►
do you know you're you can talk into
◼
►
your phone oh yeah no one does that
◼
►
I'm just saying you can call people on
◼
►
no oh how we miss the days of the Nextel
◼
►
yeah no it's not it's not push-to-talk
◼
►
if you just leave the call connected all
◼
►
the time you don't even have to push you
◼
►
set up a WebEx in each car Jesus now
◼
►
definitely going to bed
◼
►
Damien Shaw writes Google home allows
◼
►
for both compound commands and
◼
►
context-sensitive commands I do this all
◼
►
the time quote play something and set
◼
►
volume to five it gets it every time and
◼
►
quote Google what's the weather in San
◼
►
Diego - I just said it oh well sorry
◼
►
hey cylinder what's the weather in San
◼
►
Diego today a few seconds later
◼
►
hey cylinder what about tomorrow and at
◼
►
all that also always works for Damian
◼
►
Shaw yeah I mean this was my bad because
◼
►
I said last episode that none of the
◼
►
cylinder supported multiple commands in
◼
►
one sentence I'm not talking about a
◼
►
follow up like afterwards I'm talking
◼
►
about like play Weezer and the volume to
◼
►
five or you know make a pasta time or
◼
►
five minutes and a sauce timer for 20
◼
►
minutes like stuff like that like that's
◼
►
having all that be in one command and I
◼
►
don't even know it did anybody say if it
◼
►
can do multiple name timers I don't even
◼
►
know anyway it doesn't matter it
◼
►
apparently Google home can do it with
◼
►
certain commands so oh well I made a
◼
►
I wish Siri and the Amazon service would
◼
►
add this that's and this was in the
◼
►
content of Amazon adding there
◼
►
they're like follow up listening feature
◼
►
to the echo of like it'll it'll listen
◼
►
for a few seconds after you give after
◼
►
it does a command to see if you have any
◼
►
more to say like you know that's that's
◼
►
a BS non feature but multiple command
◼
►
support in one sentence is a great
◼
►
feature and something that we've
◼
►
definitely needed I thought nobody had
◼
►
it turns out Google has it done
◼
►
so the thing about these cylinders is
◼
►
like they don't really have a
◼
►
particularly discoverable interface
◼
►
that's one of the reasons that Amazon
◼
►
emails you all the time to tell you all
◼
►
the new things that you can do with your
◼
►
cylinder because otherwise how would you
◼
►
know like it just sits there you know it
◼
►
doesn't it has no apparent way to
◼
►
communicate to you that it is now has it
◼
►
now has a new capability on this topic
◼
►
are you sure Marko that your Amazon
◼
►
cylinder can't do compound commands like
◼
►
when's the last time you tried that's a
◼
►
reasonable question I don't I guess I'm
◼
►
not sure I I'd the last time I tried was
◼
►
probably months ago and May they could
◼
►
have added it last week I don't I don't
◼
►
actually read those emails I think I
◼
►
might have done multiple timers in one
◼
►
sentence but I don't know like I treat
◼
►
my google cylinders like every time I
◼
►
talk to them I'm daring them not to
◼
►
understand me I say things in an
◼
►
informal way in a more complicated way
◼
►
than then you know I don't not in the
◼
►
more complicated but that I don't
◼
►
simplify them I don't dumb it down to
◼
►
say okay cylinder I know you won't
◼
►
understand me so let me explain to you
◼
►
very clearly and slowly what I want I
◼
►
just say it and which is daring it's
◼
►
like go ahead screw up don't and most of
◼
►
the time a the succeeds and that's that
◼
►
little weird game that I play with it is
◼
►
part of my satisfaction with the product
◼
►
part of the satisfaction is the
◼
►
challenge and seeing the challenge be
◼
►
met by this little thing in my house
◼
►
right but on the discoverability front I
◼
►
think actually one of the pieces of
◼
►
feedback that we got that may not have
◼
►
made into notes is that what the heck is
◼
►
it called home pod also can do compound
◼
►
things or at least play music or other
◼
►
audio and issue a volume level at the
◼
►
same time and they can expect what I was
◼
►
saying it's not always clear what these
◼
►
cylinders can do for us and the only way
◼
►
to really find out is to try and the
◼
►
problem with trying is it fail if it
◼
►
falls on its face you're like oh my
◼
►
stupid silicon cylinder can't do that
◼
►
two months later maybe it can do that
◼
►
thing and you have no idea so I guess
◼
►
the moral is I mean I don't know what
◼
►
the solution is here because Amazon the
◼
►
emails one approach just keep spamming
◼
►
people so they realize you can ask get
◼
►
facts about dogs right but I don't think
◼
►
that's a great solution either you
◼
►
certainly don't want these cylinders
◼
►
when you you know wake up and tell the
◼
►
turn on the lights to throw in a
◼
►
sentence or two about these new
◼
►
capabilities although if I can imagine
◼
►
like in sci-fi movies and in bed
◼
►
infomercials made by people who don't
◼
►
know how actual people act soldiers
◼
►
would always be telling you about the
◼
►
stuff they can do and you'd be delighted
◼
►
like you know the sci-fi actor wakes up
◼
►
and you know his futuristic apartment
◼
►
and all his devices Tom I just wanted
◼
►
you to know the last night I had new
◼
►
capabilities and blah blah blah and he's
◼
►
like oh thank thank you cylinder but in
◼
►
real life you need to smash the thing
◼
►
with a hamburger in the morning like
◼
►
that huh and in vert aizen's people are
◼
►
so happy to hear the new capabilities
◼
►
that the refrigerator has no they're not
◼
►
happy they don't want to know so I don't
◼
►
know what the solution is certainly when
◼
►
you wake up like your five-year-old
◼
►
doesn't say father I can now understand
◼
►
compounds like they just grow and get
◼
►
better and we expect them to you know to
◼
►
grow and get better but appliances
◼
►
especially appliances that we don't see
◼
►
doing software update or appliances that
◼
►
get enhanced by changes on the server
◼
►
that really are invisible to us like it
◼
►
doesn't affect our you know it's I don't
◼
►
know it's it's tricky maybe they should
◼
►
have little tiny brain icons that grow
◼
►
as they get smarter and they're becoming
◼
►
you wake up this morning say Oh cylinder
◼
►
I see your brain is a little bit bigger
◼
►
that's great why not not an actual
◼
►
solution just kidding also I feel like
◼
►
you know like the like supporting
◼
►
compound commands is not a binary like
◼
►
yes it does now no it doesn't thing like
◼
►
people said the home pod can do like you
◼
►
know play a playlist at music level but
◼
►
can it do like set a timer for 10
◼
►
minutes and turn on the office lights
◼
►
and can Google home do that I don't know
◼
►
like one of the biggest use cases I
◼
►
think for multiple commands would be
◼
►
turning on or off multiple smart home
◼
►
things at once that don't already have a
◼
►
pre-existing group so you could say like
◼
►
you know hey cylinder turn on lights in
◼
►
office bedroom and kitchen that might be
◼
►
three commands by you know normally
◼
►
three separate commands that's pretty
◼
►
tedious but if we're you can say like
◼
►
hey cylinder turn off outside lights and
◼
►
lamps in living room like you know can
◼
►
you do that can you say turn on kitchen
◼
►
lights and start a pasta timer for five
◼
►
minutes like can you can you combine
◼
►
domains in one sentence like this it's
◼
►
one of those things like again like this
◼
►
is this is the kind of thing humans
◼
►
expect to work at some point and
◼
►
I were smarter but the good thing is
◼
►
that these assistants are getting
◼
►
smarter at some of them faster paces
◼
►
than others let's be honest to your
◼
►
Apple has lagging behind here here
◼
►
pretty badly and in like rate of
◼
►
improvement but you know the Amazon and
◼
►
Google services are doing great they're
◼
►
really improving very quickly and so
◼
►
that's that's promising like it wouldn't
◼
►
surprise me if they get there fairly
◼
►
soon one other little nitpick while
◼
►
we're on the the cylinder thing and this
◼
►
is this is something that bothers me
◼
►
about Siri that the Amazon service will
◼
►
interpret things you say literally if
◼
►
you if you give like an unusual phrasing
◼
►
so for instance if I say if I want a
◼
►
timer for like if I'm starting this
◼
►
happening of the night I was starting
◼
►
some something in you know some rice or
◼
►
pasta or something in a pot and I also
◼
►
had some I was gonna put some french
◼
►
fries in the oven so I asked the Amazon
◼
►
cylinder you know start a timer for
◼
►
Frank for you know rice for 25 minutes
◼
►
and I said start a start french fries
◼
►
timer for 10 minutes and so what I
◼
►
wanted was in 10 minutes for it to say
◼
►
start the French fries so it's weird you
◼
►
have to say start a start french fries
◼
►
timer the Amazon servers gets that right
◼
►
every single time it always knows what I
◼
►
mean by that it's like treating it as a
◼
►
string literal it's like this is the
◼
►
name of the timer you are so you are
◼
►
creating here and it gets it right every
◼
►
time it's one of those one of those
◼
►
things like John said you know like like
◼
►
we're like you know you're almost trying
◼
►
to trip it up like by trying this kind
◼
►
of thing that's the opposite of what is
◼
►
that because you're playing like a sex
◼
►
like you want a thing that works like a
◼
►
programmer and you're a programmer and
◼
►
you're like you see the the placeholders
◼
►
in your head and you're telling them in
◼
►
because you know how they'll be
◼
►
interpreted but I would argue the note
◼
►
human speaks to another intelligent
◼
►
thing like that you're playing the game
◼
►
that is your cylinder which is fine I
◼
►
think it's a useful feature people want
◼
►
to play that game but it would be better
◼
►
like if you if you were talking to
◼
►
another human you probably would have
◼
►
said don't let me forget to start the
◼
►
French fries in 10 minutes or I'd like
◼
►
something like that or remind me in 10
◼
►
minutes to start the French for it but I
◼
►
was avoiding remind me because it sounds
◼
►
more like the creative reminder right
◼
►
like you're good oh my
◼
►
and timers or whatever it you just
◼
►
wanted to know what you mean or tell me
◼
►
in ten minutes you know whatever it is
◼
►
like but that's what that's what timers
◼
►
are like named timers are basically
◼
►
telling you this thing at this like in
◼
►
this time and it's great it's a very
◼
►
very useful function and it's awesome to
◼
►
like you to hear the people off and say
◼
►
your start french fries timer is done
◼
►
like that's it's great because it
◼
►
reminds you like what to do and that
◼
►
staggering things out that's awkward to
◼
►
when it says your start french fries
◼
►
timer I don't want I wanted to say it's
◼
►
time to start the French fries but it
◼
►
doesn't doesn't understand the name of
◼
►
the timer like so I think the problem is
◼
►
in these sort of this weird area where
◼
►
you can say it in a vague way but it
◼
►
doesn't understand what you meant and it
◼
►
tries to be smart lots of people cut
◼
►
were complaining about Syria trying to
◼
►
get it to play our home pod trying to
◼
►
get play songs that have weird titles
◼
►
that themselves might be interpretable
◼
►
as commands and they just really can't
◼
►
get it to play those songs are those
◼
►
albums because there's no way to get it
◼
►
to your point to get it to understand
◼
►
that it's a string literal that is a
◼
►
placeholder you know it's to get it to
◼
►
parse as initiation command placeholder
◼
►
for thing for song name and then verb
◼
►
right and it just it stubbornly refuses
◼
►
to do it and it's trying to be flexible
◼
►
so we can like interpret meaning or
◼
►
whatever but if there's any ambiguity it
◼
►
falls over whereas the Alexa one is very
◼
►
cut and dried and as there are certain
◼
►
forms that you can put it in certain
◼
►
places where expects the placeholders
◼
►
and if you play that text adventure game
◼
►
with your cylinder it has predictable
◼
►
functionality like it doesn't vary like
◼
►
with the songs with home pod some songs
◼
►
you could say at a million different
◼
►
ways because there's no way that song
◼
►
title is potentially misinterpreted but
◼
►
other songs that screws up whereas with
◼
►
the placeholder format anything you put
◼
►
in there like I bet you could get your
◼
►
cylinder to say start a timer for a
◼
►
start a timer for 10 minutes for 10
◼
►
minutes like you know I mean you could
◼
►
nest it and it would still like figure
◼
►
it out because it's probably just doing
◼
►
a very naive text of speech then parsing
◼
►
that and speaking of naive Texas speech
◼
►
on the thing you're getting at before
◼
►
about doing compound things even Google
◼
►
is not above punting on this like they
◼
►
have a feature of the home pod where you
◼
►
essentially set up macros you're like
◼
►
look if there's a series of commands the
◼
►
you could issue but you don't want to
◼
►
say all those words because weird and
◼
►
awkward just tell us what you're gonna
◼
►
and when you say that we will do all
◼
►
these other things that's really cool
◼
►
and I mean it's not it's like the most
◼
►
brain-dead thing ever it's like we the
◼
►
ones were they they had just put a
◼
►
teepee so I can say hey so under a
◼
►
teepee and it says played the latest
◼
►
episode of access it's just a shorter
◼
►
way to say that but literally any list
◼
►
of commands you can do it's just macro
◼
►
expansion very simple macro expansion if
◼
►
it was truly intelligent you wouldn't
◼
►
have to do that you would be able to
◼
►
converse with it and shorten what you
◼
►
say and based on how often you ask for a
◼
►
thing that similar to this blah blah
◼
►
right but I'm just showing that Google
◼
►
eventually says the utility of letting
◼
►
program when you pay people essentially
◼
►
make macros of their own design and then
◼
►
we'll just dumb we use only yeah it's a
◼
►
speech-to-text and then map it onto one
◼
►
of these macros and if it matches one of
◼
►
them will do that thing it it provides
◼
►
utility while they work on providing the
◼
►
actual intelligence at some point in the
◼
►
future no I mean and that's useful and
◼
►
like and I would also posit that you
◼
►
know I bet Google home customers are
◼
►
more programmers than average but but
◼
►
also like you know so going back to my
◼
►
to my you know started a start french
◼
►
fries timer like that's that sounds you
◼
►
know contrived in an edge case but what
◼
►
I really get tripped up by places where
◼
►
Siri does Co Siri seems to make no
◼
►
effort to to understand that kind of
◼
►
syntax but that can also trip up
◼
►
legitimate you know quote legitimate use
◼
►
cases so for instance the other day I
◼
►
said I asked Siri to remind me in things
◼
►
to add the 12 volt battery to my Tesla
◼
►
repair now it's the the word add Siri
◼
►
interprets that as to add to the to-do
◼
►
list so even though I said remind me to
◼
►
add this blah blah blah it ignored the
◼
►
fact that there was already another word
◼
►
in the sentence that said that remind me
◼
►
to remind me basically like it didn't it
◼
►
didn't figure that out so when I said
◼
►
remind me to add 12 a battery to my
◼
►
Tesla repair I got some you know some
◼
►
tasks and things have said something
◼
►
along the lines of like you know 12 volt
◼
►
pair like it and it's didn't parse a
◼
►
sentence correctly at all and I also
◼
►
have inconsistencies there where when
◼
►
you're asking you know to remind you
◼
►
about about something you will you will
◼
►
usually put some kind of word between
◼
►
remind me like to so remind me to take
◼
►
the trash out most of the time Siri
◼
►
parses that as add a reminder with the
◼
►
text take the trash out sometimes
◼
►
it parses it as editor minder with the
◼
►
text to take the trash out so we'll have
◼
►
a reminder that says to take the trash
◼
►
out and it's like literally the same
◼
►
thing sometimes we'll do that sometimes
◼
►
won't it's just like this is one of
◼
►
those things like whatever whatever
◼
►
algorithms and machine learning Siri is
◼
►
doing to parse sentence structure seems
◼
►
like it's significantly behind the
◼
►
others and also in consistently so much
◼
►
of Siri and it's just kind of I don't
◼
►
know it's frustrating like that because
◼
►
that that seemed this seems like easy
◼
►
stuff like basics of adding reminders
◼
►
and setting timers and stuff like that
◼
►
like this is what Syria was demoed with
◼
►
in 2011 like this this should be easier
◼
►
and better by now and we know from the
◼
►
other assistants that it can be better
◼
►
cuz there's our better and so this is
◼
►
like it's easy yet one more thing that
◼
►
just like it's a little like paper cut
◼
►
every time I use Siri that like one of
◼
►
these dumb things happens and the other
◼
►
ones it doesn't I think that was the
◼
►
reminders thing of where it thinks
◼
►
you're trying to add something to a list
◼
►
was like one of my original Siri
◼
►
complaints may be on this program maybe
◼
►
in an earlier podcast I had the exact
◼
►
same problem the thing I wanted to
◼
►
remind me about it stubbornly insisted
◼
►
on interpreting as an attempt to either
◼
►
create or add to some unknown list that
◼
►
I didn't exist because I was trying to
◼
►
maintain a list and remind myself to put
◼
►
things on the list that was kind of like
◼
►
you were doing and it just just could
◼
►
not handle it and even even today when I
◼
►
do reminders sometimes I'll do multiple
◼
►
tries and I'll have to go into text
◼
►
adventure mode where I'm just like look
◼
►
I'm gonna I'm gonna give a name of this
◼
►
reminder I'm not gonna have like normal
◼
►
syntax I'm gonna be like remind me and
◼
►
then a phrase that design may you ously
◼
►
interpreted as text it has to appear
◼
►
there but it's not the way
◼
►
want to phrase it like just enough so
◼
►
that I will beat the text adventure but
◼
►
also not so much that when I go look at
◼
►
the reminder won't understand what I was
◼
►
doing and and this is like here's
◼
►
another speaking at sentencing I've
◼
►
always loved the feature of Siri I'm
◼
►
assuming as a feature of Siri where I
◼
►
would say I would create a reminder of
◼
►
something involving one of a family
◼
►
members name and I assume it would look
◼
►
in contacts for the spelling all right
◼
►
like my daughter is Kate but she spells
◼
►
with the C and it would transcribe it as
◼
►
like a K but then it would like do some
◼
►
processing and change it to a C because
◼
►
did I'm assuming knows that I have that
◼
►
listed as a nickname for my daughter in
◼
►
my contacts and I appreciated that
◼
►
features like that I'm constantly
◼
►
talking about this Kate person it's
◼
►
never with a K and I'll correct it if it
◼
►
transcribes it with the K and I like the
◼
►
fact that it seemed like it had figured
◼
►
out Oh at some point along the line it's
◼
►
like I there's no Kate with the K in
◼
►
your contacts which would be bad if
◼
►
there was I think it should figure it
◼
►
anyway but it's ok with ok I'll change
◼
►
it to a seat and every time I saw that
◼
►
little Kate changes see I'm like oh
◼
►
that's nice that's Siri being smart
◼
►
again kind of like the Google thing
◼
►
where you get like a good feeling from
◼
►
using a product that you gave it
◼
►
something challenging and it used its
◼
►
smarts but lately it's decided to go
◼
►
back to K and I'm kind of annoyed that
◼
►
changed your seat and it just never does
◼
►
it stay sit so I go and edit it and I
◼
►
change to you know change to I see
◼
►
myself and why I don't no no no man just
◼
►
stopped working we were sponsored this
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►
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◼
►
moving on to annoyances and language but
◼
►
written language scott-little rights I'm
◼
►
almost sure that the you shut down
◼
►
dialog as in you shut down your computer
◼
►
only happens after the user is forced
◼
►
powered off the machine for example in
◼
►
the whole system hangs not after a
◼
►
kernel panic so in reality the text is
◼
►
accurate I could have sworn I tried to
◼
►
make this point on the show and either I
◼
►
didn't or maybe maybe it hit the editing
◼
►
room floor one way or the other but
◼
►
that's what I thought too
◼
►
and I thought we concluded I was crazy
◼
►
you are crazy but maybe not for there's
◼
►
a reason so I yeah so yes I was talking
◼
►
about how like this dialogue of you shut
◼
►
down your computer because of a problem
◼
►
infuriated me because that often happens
◼
►
when I don't feel that I'm at fault for
◼
►
the problem so I think this is correct
◼
►
that it does only only come up with like
◼
►
an improper shutdown maybe not a kernel
◼
►
panic the problem is like there are
◼
►
certain situations where you have to for
◼
►
shut down the computer because of like a
◼
►
bug in Mac OS you know like it won't
◼
►
wake from sleep or something like that
◼
►
like this happens all the time you know
◼
►
well not all the time this happens to
◼
►
every Mac person at some point
◼
►
especially if you're a laptop person
◼
►
this happens a lot especially regarding
◼
►
waking from sleep but you know so like
◼
►
there there are some times where you
◼
►
have to hold down the power button for
◼
►
five seconds to get the computer to turn
◼
►
off or to turn on and then it says you
◼
►
shut down your computer because of so
◼
►
it's kind of like it's kind of like
◼
►
slapping you in the face it's like well
◼
►
it was your problem here third is back
◼
►
on me but I didn't write the bug that
◼
►
caused my computer's that need to be
◼
►
power cycled so I think this is correct
◼
►
I think it does only come up when it's
◼
►
been improperly shut down but I still
◼
►
think that it's a bad it's it's bad like
◼
►
language design to throw the action on
◼
►
the user to say you shut down the
◼
►
computer like you can just say the
◼
►
computer was shut down improperly or the
◼
►
computer didn't shut down correctly it's
◼
►
not like you can say you can reword that
◼
►
in so many ways that that don't like
◼
►
ascribe the the purpose of this to the
◼
►
user cause like the user at that point
◼
►
is probably not very happy with the
◼
►
computer because the computer just did
◼
►
something wrong like the computer just
◼
►
like malfunctioned and then you then the
◼
►
computer says you didn't do this right
◼
►
so it's not a good it's not a good time
◼
►
to do that so I think the wording
◼
►
actually is reasonably fair for the
◼
►
thing where it was usually she ate it
◼
►
and we got a lot of feedback for people
◼
►
saying that's when they see the
◼
►
satellite but we also got feedback from
◼
►
people saying I did not turn this thing
◼
►
off I didn't unplug it I didn't hold
◼
►
down the power key and yet I saw this
◼
►
and it like I said it can't know whether
◼
►
you are the one that caused whatever
◼
►
cleanup things not to have been cleaned
◼
►
up so that on boot-up it finds this one
◼
►
cleaned up file whatever flag thing at
◼
►
you whatever whatever heuristic he uses
◼
►
to determine that it didn't get the
◼
►
shutdown proper the last time there are
◼
►
a number of things that can cause that
◼
►
to happen only a couple of which are the
◼
►
human doing something and it has no idea
◼
►
what you did so I think this dialogue
◼
►
still does show up in cases where there
◼
►
actually was no user eyes like if you
◼
►
have some kind of cat even if you had
◼
►
some kind of catastrophic crash that
◼
►
throws you back to login window it might
◼
►
not have you know have the time to clean
◼
►
up the things or the processes that died
◼
►
our crash couldn't have cleaned up the
◼
►
little things so that when you log back
◼
►
in it throws this dollar because again
◼
►
this is asking you do you want to open
◼
►
the applications that are open when you
◼
►
shut down right like telling you if you
◼
►
want to resource state just in case one
◼
►
of those applications is one of the
◼
►
things that caused the crash or
◼
►
something right so it's a good dialogue
◼
►
like something like this should be there
◼
►
but I don't think it can know that you
◼
►
shut down your computer I think it does
◼
►
guess right a lot of the time and I
◼
►
think it's not actually telling you that
◼
►
the problem was yours or that you
◼
►
shouldn't have shut down the computer
◼
►
but it is a little bit more accusatory
◼
►
than it probably could be because it
◼
►
just can't be sure that you found on
◼
►
your computer somebody did might have
◼
►
been you what if your different person
◼
►
turned yeah turned on the computer and
◼
►
the person who actually showed it down
◼
►
left now you bring yelled up or shutting
◼
►
down the computer but you didn't shut
◼
►
down the guy who was here two seconds
◼
►
ago did so probably not the best wording
◼
►
but it is at least a little bit
◼
►
potentially more accurate than we
◼
►
thought it was yeah what if you have
◼
►
like the world's worst office mates
◼
►
we're roommates he came to come by and
◼
►
hold down power for five seconds a
◼
►
computer sometimes I remember holding
◼
►
them power it doesn't reboot holding
◼
►
down power just turns the thing off so
◼
►
you could you could someone someone
◼
►
could someone on your family that's a
◼
►
could be annoyed at the computer or
◼
►
something hung or crash or whatever and
◼
►
they hold them the power button for five
◼
►
seconds and the thing turns off I think
◼
►
that's what it does right just turns off
◼
►
yeah I do that right yeah and then they
◼
►
leave and go to sleep next morning the
◼
►
whole family wakes up someone else goes
◼
►
to the computer it hits the spacebar
◼
►
it doesn't wake up and go huh and
◼
►
hopefully they find the power switch
◼
►
which used to be on the keyboard which
◼
►
was super convenient and the thing
◼
►
starts up and it says you should tell
◼
►
the computer probably like what do you
◼
►
mean I just woke up I didn't shut down
◼
►
the computer because of
◼
►
problem so again the dialog box can't
◼
►
no-show could probably probably should
◼
►
err on the side of being uh unassuming
◼
►
your innocence I love how much time
◼
►
we've given this dialog box because it
◼
►
drives me nuts every time and me Lisa
◼
►
doesn't have a typo like Disk Utility
◼
►
yeah right like maybe in like you know
◼
►
Peak Sierra or whatever the hell comes
◼
►
next I don't know my California maybe
◼
►
somebody will reword this dialogue in
◼
►
the English localization to not do this
◼
►
stupid blame thing okay we need to move
◼
►
on so let's talk about gdpr which i
◼
►
already forgot the acronym but it's
◼
►
basically the you are in control of your
◼
►
data law that we discussed last week
◼
►
erin power writes in with regard to the
◼
►
i think that the problem is the
◼
►
companies especially american companies
◼
►
don't understand what the law covers and
◼
►
put warnings when there is no need or
◼
►
don't put warnings in when they're
◼
►
required so to talk about the cookie law
◼
►
then that doesn't apply only to cookies
◼
►
according to Erin it applies to any form
◼
►
of persistent storage like local storage
◼
►
it also doesn't apply to first-party
◼
►
cookies so like a cookie to keep you
◼
►
logged in it only applies in their
◼
►
cookies from a third party like google
◼
►
analytics now according to Erin the
◼
►
cookie law was weak however gdpr is a
◼
►
much stricter and more consequential law
◼
►
in there's bigger penalties if you don't
◼
►
follow it so there's a lot of bullets
◼
►
here I'm assuming because one of you put
◼
►
this in the show notes I am supposed to
◼
►
be reading them so I you supposed to
◼
►
learn how to summarize the challenges
◼
►
you are the chief you're not just a
◼
►
summarizer Casey you're the chief
◼
►
summarizer in chief I'm pulling at my
◼
►
tie I'm pulling at my tie right now I'm
◼
►
not just encase oh basically any of the
◼
►
personal information that you give to a
◼
►
company it is qualified under gdpr the
◼
►
company can't hold on to it unless
◼
►
there's a reasonable reason to do so
◼
►
they need to absolutely get your consent
◼
►
to hold on to it and with kids it
◼
►
requires their parent's permission which
◼
►
apparently must be verifiable then once
◼
►
you say no I don't want you to have my
◼
►
data anymore then the data must be at
◼
►
least slightly anonymized such that a
◼
►
single piece of data isn't enough to
◼
►
and then you can also ask at any time
◼
►
for what personal data the company has
◼
►
for you and also you can get them to
◼
►
erase your data and inform third parties
◼
►
that they need to erase their data now
◼
►
the real kicker though is that if they
◼
►
don't do this the fines can be up to 20
◼
►
million euros or 4% of the company's
◼
►
worldwide turnover whatever that means
◼
►
but I'm assuming that's a lot and it's
◼
►
not whichever is lower it's whichever is
◼
►
higher turnover is one of those I'm
◼
►
assuming it's a British ISM but they
◼
►
just mean revenue four percent of the
◼
►
company's revenue in americanese thank
◼
►
you so basically this could amount to a
◼
►
whole crapload of money and that's why
◼
►
everyone especially in Europe who's
◼
►
actually paying attention to this is
◼
►
freaking out and not to say that
◼
►
Americans shouldn't be freaking out
◼
►
because we will be held to this as well
◼
►
but it seems that the Europeans are way
◼
►
ahead of this and I believe this comes
◼
►
online that's a poor choice of words but
◼
►
I believe this becomes law and and it
◼
►
can be enforced sometime in the next few
◼
►
months I'm not mistaken this is like you
◼
►
know last episode like I had read some
◼
►
about it I was a little familiar with it
◼
►
I should have been a lot more familiar
◼
►
with it this is like the kind of thing
◼
►
like I don't know why I'm only hearing
◼
►
about this like a month or two before it
◼
►
goes live but I'm glad I heard about it
◼
►
at least a month or two before it was
◼
►
live because you can make your
◼
►
onboarding screen right
◼
►
I'm not wall ready I mean I have a login
◼
►
screen already and and and I'm like I'm
◼
►
married like overcast has already
◼
►
complied with a lot of this already just
◼
►
by having fairly reasonable practices
◼
►
not closing that much data in the first
◼
►
having reasonable security practices and
◼
►
and having like a very clear privacy
◼
►
policy like I was I was kind of already
◼
►
inadvertently implementing about 2/3 of
◼
►
the stuff I needed to do so it's it's
◼
►
not a huge deal for me but this this is
◼
►
a huge deal for lots of for pretty much
◼
►
anybody who has runs any kind of web
◼
►
service or app that collects data and
◼
►
and it's not because it isn't just you
◼
►
know Casey you said like data that
◼
►
people enter that's not necessarily the
◼
►
limit it's just data that you collect
◼
►
and store about people so it's or
◼
►
people like if you don't support like I
◼
►
think if you analyze it anyway it's
◼
►
complicated I suggest anybody who who
◼
►
runs a web service or an app that is
◼
►
responsible for it I I strongly suggest
◼
►
now like very very very quickly because
◼
►
there are a lot of ramifications it's
◼
►
pretty cool it's pretty big it's not it
◼
►
does not just apply to European
◼
►
companies because it applies to any
◼
►
company worldwide that stores data about
◼
►
European users or European citizens
◼
►
which is pretty much every web service
◼
►
unless you block Europe for some dumb
◼
►
reason but this it's gonna apply to
◼
►
pretty much everybody and so that's this
◼
►
is like it's way more it's way stronger
◼
►
than that cookie law because the cookie
◼
►
law I think only basically applied or at
◼
►
least was ever enforced for European
◼
►
countries if it was enforced anywhere
◼
►
ever but but it would you know only
◼
►
European websites would display those
◼
►
cookie warnings but this is way bigger
◼
►
and and this this will affect tech stuff
◼
►
worldwide and you know in the context of
◼
►
a lot of the stuff going on recently
◼
►
with with tech stuff especially like
◼
►
this horrible Facebook Cambridge
◼
►
analytics you know horrible scandal BS
◼
►
them I mean look Facebook's a horrible
◼
►
company I don't know yeah it's like not
◼
►
a lot of this is new or shocking to me
◼
►
it's just really horrible and sad and
◼
►
just disgusting but anyway this caught
◼
►
this law will have a pretty big impact
◼
►
on a lot of the worst stuff about the
◼
►
web and it's probably gonna be a pretty
◼
►
good positive impact it's probably well
◼
►
not good for them but but screw them
◼
►
it's probably gonna have a really good
◼
►
impact for you know people who respect
◼
►
their users and those users who want to
◼
►
be respected so it's it's it's gonna be
◼
►
I wish there were more resources online
◼
►
so far about you know how to comply
◼
►
without having to like higher GDP our
◼
►
compliance specialist too you know for a
◼
►
lot of money that you probably can't get
◼
►
in late April to you know to help you
◼
►
out but it it's going to change a lot of
◼
►
things if it's enforced and the the EU
◼
►
is you know usually pretty good at like
◼
►
you know like when they when they pass
◼
►
consumer protection regulations
◼
►
they tend to enforce them so the this
◼
►
this should be interesting it's probably
◼
►
gonna be a really big deal and it's
◼
►
gonna be a a slight pain in the butt to
◼
►
get some of like the you know like the
◼
►
boilerplate stuff but it's all like from
◼
►
what I've seen so far most of its pretty
◼
►
common-sense stuff it's gonna be a pain
◼
►
for bigger companies I think but but for
◼
►
for small companies it seems like it's
◼
►
actually not that big of a deal
◼
►
cool I mean it's intense but it's for
◼
►
Nick temp Ellis writes in to give you an
◼
►
example of the teeth of this law this is
◼
►
still the GDP are for the Cambridge
◼
►
analytical breech Facebook would be
◼
►
fined up to eight hundred and thirteen
◼
►
million dollars just for not notifying
◼
►
its users so like we were saying oh boy
◼
►
this is the real deal yeah because
◼
►
there's also provisions about you know
◼
►
what like first of all has security
◼
►
measures that you you know security
◼
►
level you know responsibility that you
◼
►
have to maintain to protect the user
◼
►
data you have to like keep logs of who
◼
►
accesses the user data in your company
◼
►
so like you know you can't say oh we
◼
►
didn't know it was some in some interim
◼
►
was copying all the files like you have
◼
►
to keep logs and key bought its their
◼
►
stuff about that their stuff about you
◼
►
know if you have a data breach how you
◼
►
have to notify people you know stuff
◼
►
like that what you have to do so there's
◼
►
there's a it's it's very wide reaching
◼
►
it's a very very big policy change that
◼
►
is seemingly mostly or entirely like
◼
►
pretty good common-sense stuff it's like
◼
►
if if you think like how should things
◼
►
be with regard to safekeeping and
◼
►
collecting personal data like most of
◼
►
it's pretty common-sense stuff so again
◼
►
I I think this is gonna be potentially a
◼
►
very big thing yeah great continuing on
◼
►
AWACS writes a key part of GDP are is
◼
►
that the company collecting the personal
◼
►
data is directly responsible for any
◼
►
leak or misuse it can't shift the blame
◼
►
to a contractor partner a third party
◼
►
and we see that a lot in the US where oh
◼
►
there was this big leak actually Apple
◼
►
just recently I was a month or two ago
◼
►
had what was it it was like the
◼
►
bootloader for an old version of iOS or
◼
►
something like that I'm sure I have the
◼
►
details slightly wrong yeah it was the
◼
►
source code - yeah the source code -
◼
►
I guess I guess the bootloader I don't
◼
►
actually know that much about iOS
◼
►
internals but yeah the source code to I
◼
►
boot like an old version of it from a
◼
►
few years back leaked and they said that
◼
►
was apparently like an intern had copied
◼
►
the entire source tree and taken it
◼
►
right so hey waxes point here is that
◼
►
you can't just pass the buck and be like
◼
►
Oh Joe schmo's consulting firm is the
◼
►
reason that this all leaked go talk to
◼
►
them it's still your problem if you are
◼
►
that's an interesting theory I'm not
◼
►
sure how well that law works in in the
◼
►
American legal system though because you
◼
►
know that any company the size of Apple
◼
►
if they contract any other company that
◼
►
basically says oh and by the way if the
◼
►
work you do for us causes us to get sued
◼
►
you agree to pay all damages you can't
◼
►
get blood from a stone but at the very
◼
►
least you know Apple can't shift the
◼
►
blame to the third party but it can
◼
►
shift all of the penalties to the third
◼
►
party until the third party disappears
◼
►
and basically until they get run out of
◼
►
money which may happen pretty quickly
◼
►
but that's generally how big companies
◼
►
protect themselves is that if there's
◼
►
some law that makes Apple liable they
◼
►
shift as much of that liability as
◼
►
possible to the small contractor company
◼
►
and then they just get whatever is left
◼
►
over on top of them right now finally
◼
►
Michael Saji writes gdpr is also
◼
►
incredibly technology agnostic and that
◼
►
it applies to everything everywhere and
◼
►
it's conceived of as a regulation that
◼
►
nobody will ever be able to comply with
◼
►
I can't state whether or not that's true
◼
►
or false but that was their particular
◼
►
opinion so that's another view of like
◼
►
sort of wide-reaching
◼
►
regulation that it starts to seem like
◼
►
well this is so big how could you ever
◼
►
comply with it cuz it's so vague and so
◼
►
far-reaching that like a motivated
◼
►
enforcer could find literally any
◼
►
company not in compliance of some
◼
►
portion of it right because it tries to
◼
►
be so it tries to not fall into the trap
◼
►
of the cookie law or if I want to the
◼
►
trap of the interpretation of the cookie
◼
►
law anyway where it seems narrowly
◼
►
defined and it's just an annoyed you get
◼
►
all the the negatives the annoyance and
◼
►
you don't actually get any the benefits
◼
►
because everything else you can you know
◼
►
skirt around it as technology evolves
◼
►
and this tries to be so broad and so
◼
►
far-reaching and apply to everything you
◼
►
say and do and it's so hard to comply
◼
►
with it's just like how how can I ever
◼
►
comply with the break there's just too
◼
►
but there are industries that are like
◼
►
that already that even in the u.s. that
◼
►
we you know we managed to survive so
◼
►
healthcare is one with as a bunch of
◼
►
laws related to health care and
◼
►
protection of information you know like
◼
►
all right you know finance you got PCI 4
◼
►
for finance for basic you know credit
◼
►
card processing stuff you've got HIPAA
◼
►
for health information and other
◼
►
personally identifiable information and
◼
►
stuff like that and those are similarly
◼
►
weirdly acronym fairly wide reaching
◼
►
regulations that I think you could find
◼
►
any company out of compliance with like
◼
►
HIPAA is very very broad and even a very
◼
►
you know diligent company trying to find
◼
►
to follow all the rules inevitably
◼
►
there's some place where there's some
◼
►
kind of a breach the purpose of these
◼
►
laws is not to say everyone is going to
◼
►
be 100% in compliance otherwise the law
◼
►
is useless if people are even 50% in
◼
►
compliance it's so much better than the
◼
►
status quo and that the law has to be
◼
►
sort of enforced responsibly where I
◼
►
mean it's kind of like I think it's a
◼
►
terrible analogy for lots of reasons but
◼
►
it something that people will be
◼
►
familiar with speed limits on American
◼
►
roads anyway everyone is breaking the
◼
►
speed limit all the time but through
◼
►
selective enforcement the speed limit
◼
►
allows the police to pull over someone
◼
►
who is really driving dangerously at a
◼
►
very high speed that's you know not safe
◼
►
for conditions while letting all the
◼
►
people who are five miles an hour over
◼
►
the limit on the highway sale by in some
◼
►
ways that is like giving too much power
◼
►
to the enforcers that basically everyone
◼
►
is not in compliance all the time so you
◼
►
can arrest anybody but the reason it's a
◼
►
bad analogy is because these I think we
◼
►
would agree that some data protection is
◼
►
good for you know we want we want our
◼
►
data to be protected in some way we
◼
►
don't want companies to be able to do
◼
►
whatever they want with it so we will
◼
►
take any amount and improvement over the
◼
►
status quo even if it means that a ill
◼
►
motivated enforcer of this law could
◼
►
punitive lien for us pretty much any
◼
►
enforce these guidelines on any company
◼
►
and say oh you're you've missed
◼
►
in this one little corner or whatever so
◼
►
I don't think it's ideal but I think you
◼
►
know again with HIPPA health care
◼
►
companies are not going out of business
◼
►
because they're zealous HIPAA
◼
►
enforcement by a giant fleet of you know
◼
►
government officers wandering over all
◼
►
the businesses in the world it's just
◼
►
not how it works even just they're
◼
►
outnumbered for one thing like there's
◼
►
more companies and there are people
◼
►
going around to check for HIPAA
◼
►
compliance right it's more like when
◼
►
your company is already doing enough
◼
►
terrible things to get the attention of
◼
►
law enforcement that's when this stuff
◼
►
come back comes back to bite you and I
◼
►
know I'm gonna say that's a good thing
◼
►
because again I think it's open for
◼
►
abuse but it's better than the status
◼
►
quo where you can do whatever you want
◼
►
and keep it secret and nothing ever
◼
►
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for Marco we have a solution for your
◼
►
keyboard woes you can you can quit
◼
►
whining and complaining Marco because
◼
►
adolescent patented Apple's patented a
◼
►
scream based MacBook keyboard that will
◼
►
feel like it's real check that out how
◼
►
excited are you my friend try to contain
◼
►
your excitement and keep it professional
◼
►
if you please this is this is my
◼
►
excitement you know you know what Apple
◼
►
also thinks they've released is a
◼
►
keyboard that works and is good then
◼
►
they see they think that they think this
◼
►
will feel real they just like they think
◼
►
the neck Book Pro is from 2016 is
◼
►
awesome well I mean like this this is
◼
►
definitely reads to me as one of those
◼
►
patents before you patent every idea you
◼
►
have yeah whether you whether you've
◼
►
gotten it to work or not because our
◼
►
patent system is dumb and this is what
◼
►
you're forced to do with our dumb patent
◼
►
system and so when I look at patents I'm
◼
►
putting them into the bins of that's the
◼
►
thing that could conceivably ship
◼
►
because I think they could have actually
◼
►
figured out a way to make that and the
◼
►
other bin is that's an idea that someone
◼
►
had some time that they probably never
◼
►
got to work but that they patented
◼
►
anyway because you have to patent
◼
►
everything these patents are done and
◼
►
this definitely falls into the second
◼
►
bit where I you know as we've discussed
◼
►
Apple has on-screen keyboards and
◼
►
considering future on-screen keyboards
◼
►
is an obvious thing to do right
◼
►
especially for devices like iPads where
◼
►
you want the keyboard to be small and
◼
►
imagine if when you're not using a
◼
►
keyboard you repurpose that as a second
◼
►
screen it's an obvious thing that they
◼
►
should be investigating and of course
◼
►
there's downsides on-screen keyboard so
◼
►
you think they would investigate how can
◼
►
we make on-screen keyboards less crappy
◼
►
and here's a patent describing a couple
◼
►
of ways and I was amazed like since
◼
►
patents since you don't actually have to
◼
►
have like a working version of anything
◼
►
or understand how you're gonna
◼
►
manufacture this is mostly just an idea
◼
►
which so I patented um I I was surprised
◼
►
by how unappealing I found the ideas in
◼
►
this patent because normally you make
◼
►
the ideas like imagine if there was a
◼
►
keyboard that did this and that and the
◼
►
other thing like wow that would be cool
◼
►
too bad we have no idea how to do that
◼
►
huh anyway all the ideas this one
◼
►
sounded awful to me like even if you
◼
►
could good so the idea is it's a picture
◼
►
of a keyboard but we all know the type
◼
►
you've got a picture of a keyboard is
◼
►
great cuz you can't feel the keys and
◼
►
you can't rest your fingers on the keys
◼
►
like you can't keep are like we all know
◼
►
what the disadvantage we all have
◼
►
on-screen keyboards especially on iPads
◼
►
they're disadvantages them so how do we
◼
►
overcome those disadvantages and this
◼
►
patent has a couple of ways one way is
◼
►
that the screen would actually smush you
◼
►
in when you press it to let you know
◼
►
when you've hit something and then we
◼
►
give you feedback that feels like a
◼
►
button doesn't it I cannot imagine a
◼
►
screen that I can smush in with my
◼
►
finger and it pushes back on me a little
◼
►
bit feeling like a button it would feel
◼
►
like a screen that's too much is it a
◼
►
little bit well to be fair I mean that's
◼
►
what the trackpad buttons do but it
◼
►
doesn't deform underneath your fingertip
◼
►
it deforms across the entire axis like
◼
►
if you look at the pictures this is the
◼
►
idea of like you are pressing I and you
◼
►
don't have to imagine how this would be
◼
►
because just think back to your palm
◼
►
devices that you all had these are all
◼
►
old like me they did not have capacitive
◼
►
touchscreens they had pressure-sensitive
◼
►
touchscreens which meant that you would
◼
►
have to squish the screen in with your
◼
►
finger or your fingernail or a stylus to
◼
►
cause it to register any kind of input
◼
►
so the screen would smoosh in just at
◼
►
the point of contact so if you pressed
◼
►
with the plastic stylus it would make it
◼
►
a little dimple there if you press with
◼
►
your finger would make a little you know
◼
►
it felt nothing like a button it did
◼
►
this question very much this seems like
◼
►
an exaggerated version of that and this
◼
►
all in theory this would also solve the
◼
►
problem of oh I can't rest my fingers on
◼
►
the home keys because if you rest your
◼
►
fingers all of a sudden you're typing
◼
►
it's like well now you're not typing on
◼
►
this keyboard you're only typing when
◼
►
you smush which talked about an
◼
►
unsatisfying like if you don't like the
◼
►
the low travel like buttons on the the
◼
►
current Apple laptop keyboards imagining
◼
►
having some kind of squishy membrane
◼
►
I think your little grubby fingertips
◼
►
into I don't know really hold up and the
◼
►
second one is you can't feel the edges
◼
►
of the keys when everything's flat one
◼
►
way to get around that is to have the
◼
►
screen bulge out around the key cap so
◼
►
it's like this lumpy island of mentos or
◼
►
something hey lumpy little squishy I was
◼
►
gonna say pustules but stress bumps
◼
►
let's go with that we're gonna go Kerri
◼
►
yeah is that I don't even know stress
◼
►
man is that move on back to work
◼
►
probably anyway one of them early man
◼
►
shows that wouldn't feel too good either
◼
►
another strategy they have is use I
◼
►
think it's a electrostatic or something
◼
►
use use some kind of electrostatic
◼
►
charge to make it to make you be able to
◼
►
feel the edges because there's a
◼
►
different sensation in your fingers as
◼
►
you glide across the keys and that I
◼
►
don't want any kind of tingly
◼
►
electrostatic anything telling me where
◼
►
the edges of anything are on a screen so
◼
►
I think this is a patent full of bad
◼
►
ideas that I hope they never make and
◼
►
honestly if you if you gave me like you
◼
►
know you know ILM and a movie and said
◼
►
make any kind of futuristic looking
◼
►
keyboard input that you want for a movie
◼
►
thing like the only thing that occurs to
◼
►
me that would be acceptable would be
◼
►
that the screen is made up of like
◼
►
little nano machines that rearrange
◼
►
themselves to become essentially a
◼
►
mechanical keyboard when you want to use
◼
►
a mechanical keyboard and then when you
◼
►
don't want to use it the little nano
◼
►
machines rearrange themselves to become
◼
►
a screen because if you're going to
◼
►
stupidly confine yourself to keyboard
◼
►
input as your futuristic way of getting
◼
►
text into a computer pressing a button
◼
►
with your fingers is a really good
◼
►
solution and so I would have to have the
◼
►
screen change into an actual button like
◼
►
a thing that moves up and down and has
◼
►
edges and then have it change back into
◼
►
a screen that's it like I don't have any
◼
►
better ideas on unlimited technology
◼
►
obviously the better idea is not to type
◼
►
right not to do anything like that I was
◼
►
cracks me up about a anime series that
◼
►
neither one of you that's heard of that
◼
►
I enjoy ghost in the shell' was a movie
◼
►
and there's a television series and
◼
►
other spin-offs from it
◼
►
and one of the signature visual flares
◼
►
is they have these you know sort of
◼
►
cyborg people or robot people sitting in
◼
►
front of computer terminals and because
◼
►
they're not regular people like you know
◼
►
their hands are all robotic hands and
◼
►
they look like normal hands but then
◼
►
they put their hands over the keyboard
◼
►
but now since they're robots their hands
◼
►
kind of like open up and fold out and
◼
►
explode and these huge tentacles come
◼
►
out of them where their fingers were and
◼
►
those tentacles fly over the key
◼
►
services typing faster than any human
◼
►
can type across this giant keypad right
◼
►
like that's their you know superpower
◼
►
it's like a human can only type this
◼
►
fast but they're little meat fingers but
◼
►
look at the these ghost in the shell'
◼
►
cyborg machines they could type much
◼
►
faster because they have all these metal
◼
►
tendrils that go out all over the
◼
►
keyboard it's like if you're a cyborg
◼
►
just plug into the rs-232 port for
◼
►
crying out typing keys on the keyboard
◼
►
like this this is a control room
◼
►
designed for these robot cyborgs
◼
►
thingies they can just connect with a
◼
►
serial cable they don't need to press
◼
►
buttons anyway I'm digressing but yeah
◼
►
so this patent does not describe a
◼
►
product I would like to use and it does
◼
►
not describe a product I think anyone
◼
►
would like to use but it does show that
◼
►
Apple continues to investigate ways to
◼
►
make to be able to have screen when you
◼
►
want a screen and keyboard when you want
◼
►
a keyboard there is one good idea in
◼
►
this patent they fixed the arrow keys
◼
►
they have the correct arrow key layout
◼
►
in the patent illustration yeah but if
◼
►
you get that layout you have to stand up
◼
►
out of your seat and say McDonald's I
◼
►
get the reference no I mean this is like
◼
►
I just this is potentially cool down the
◼
►
road but like I think a concern that I
◼
►
have here again this is not gonna be a
◼
►
half hour rant a concern I have here is
◼
►
like what if what if Apple looks at the
◼
►
current problems of the keyboards in the
◼
►
laptops and instead of saying wow we
◼
►
need to make more reliable key switches
◼
►
what if they're like you know there's a
◼
►
problem laptop keyboards are unreliable
◼
►
how do we get rid of the left key like
◼
►
because like this is a really really
◼
►
complicated solution to a problem that
◼
►
doesn't need to exist and we already
◼
►
have way simpler cheaper more robust
◼
►
solutions already existing in the world
◼
►
for quite some time they're called
◼
►
buttons and they're fine like a keyboard
◼
►
with key switches has existed for quite
◼
►
some time and they're wonderful they're
◼
►
proven they're durable they're
◼
►
affordable they're repairable it's
◼
►
wonderful it's cool that somebody is
◼
►
filing patents and doing research in
◼
►
these crazy directions I just really
◼
►
hope that that's just for a like you
◼
►
know files many patents as possible
◼
►
purposes not actual future product
◼
►
directions because the problem they're
◼
►
solving is entirely self created and
◼
►
optional it's not cool that the farming
◼
►
patents pending suck but we just saw a
◼
►
patent for the four key switches last
◼
►
show right so they are investigating
◼
►
that but I think I think it actually is
◼
►
important to investigate ways to make
◼
►
on-screen keyboards better because like
◼
►
yes it's bad if they think this is a
◼
►
replacement for keyboards but we already
◼
►
have on-screen keyboards I would like
◼
►
those on-screen keyboards to be better
◼
►
and I also think replacing those flat
◼
►
smart keyboard things on iPads with
◼
►
thinner lighter things that can double
◼
►
as a second screen when they're not a
◼
►
keyboard would give everybody the multi
◼
►
pad lifestyle all right and you know I
◼
►
think that's worth pursuing if you can
◼
►
figure out a way to make a combo
◼
►
keyboard screen that is an OK screen and
◼
►
a passable keyboard that's worth
◼
►
investigating not as a replacement for
◼
►
your laptops unless it is really
◼
►
fantastic but just as a potential
◼
►
accessory I know that said this
◼
►
particular patent doesn't paint anything
◼
►
that I find compelling like but even if
◼
►
they could build everything this exactly
◼
►
where they said I don't think it would
◼
►
be a satisfying keyboard in fact I think
◼
►
it might even be less satisfying than
◼
►
just a picture of a keyboard on a screen
◼
►
that we have now but I do think Apple
◼
►
should be investigating this because
◼
►
they do have a lot of device to the
◼
►
screens they already have on-screen
◼
►
keyboard so yes of course they should be
◼
►
investigating ways to make them better
◼
►
and every way they investigate whether
◼
►
turns out to be a turkey or not they're
◼
►
gonna patent it by by the way let's
◼
►
appreciate all the ways that patent
◼
►
diagrams are ridiculous there's of
◼
►
course the classic patent hands where
◼
►
anytime you see a hand in a patent it
◼
►
looks in human and weird they do pretty
◼
►
good these fingers look kind of like
◼
►
finger so I'm proud of them there but
◼
►
then the keyboard control isn't next to
◼
►
the space bar what the hell like you
◼
►
have a keyboard right in front you
◼
►
probably when you're making this diagram
◼
►
like just look down control isn't next
◼
►
to the keyboard and they didn't label
◼
►
all the modifiers anyway they just
◼
►
labeled some of them I'm gonna label
◼
►
control and you know what controls next
◼
►
to the space bar right on the Mac okay
◼
►
nope Oh John oh my word
◼
►
speaking of Apple making things
◼
►
apparently they're making their own
◼
►
displays so we got word over the last
◼
►
few days that Apple is trying to do
◼
►
micro LED which is I guess a also
◼
►
organic but different than OLED display
◼
►
technology and apparently somewhere in
◼
►
California and in in cahoots with
◼
►
somewhere in Taiwan if I recall
◼
►
correctly they are trying to in-house
◼
►
develop a brand new display technology
◼
►
and the theory goes that they will
◼
►
figure out how to create it figure out
◼
►
how to manufacture it and then throw it
◼
►
over the wall to some other company like
◼
►
Samsung or something or perhaps Foxconn
◼
►
to actually build these in volumes so
◼
►
they're not getting into the
◼
►
manufacturing business but they are
◼
►
getting deeper into the creation of
◼
►
hardware specifically displays business
◼
►
and in a move that surprises pretty much
◼
►
nobody I think this is a good idea I
◼
►
like the sound of this I don't
◼
►
personally have too much more to say
◼
►
about it but I'm assuming one of you do
◼
►
so Marco thoughts it's I think it's a
◼
►
good idea for looking into this it you
◼
►
know the the screen is such a critical
◼
►
part of their of all of their products
◼
►
really exactly looks like the home pod
◼
►
in the iPod shuffle tomatoes anymore the
◼
►
screen is so important and especially
◼
►
like with with modern high end OLED
◼
►
screens that's every Apple watch and the
◼
►
iPhone 10 and every touch bar and
◼
►
presumably more products you know as
◼
►
time goes on because OLED is pretty
◼
►
the problem is that if there aren't that
◼
►
many OLED manufacturers it's pretty much
◼
►
like Samsung and LG and LG
◼
►
seems to do really well in TV o LEDs but
◼
►
seems to do pretty poorly in like
◼
►
computer and phone displays now
◼
►
Apple has been tied to basically LG and
◼
►
Samsung for LCD displays for years like
◼
►
I remember like like my my 2012 retina
◼
►
MacBook Pro like when I when I made when
◼
►
I had my image retention issue and I
◼
►
made that that like waffle page
◼
►
I had the LG panel and the LG panel was
◼
►
the one that had all the image retention
◼
►
the Samsung panel didn't like it was
◼
►
that kind of thing like you know so like
◼
►
they've had like this like kind of two
◼
►
supplier thing for a while with OLED for
◼
►
the phone it's an incredibly important
◼
►
component like like that OLED panel is
◼
►
the iPhone 10 like that it's such an
◼
►
important component it probably is a
◼
►
pretty large price component like
◼
►
compared to the other components in it
◼
►
it might be the most the most part of
◼
►
the whole phone so I can't imagine Apple
◼
►
is that happy to rely on just one
◼
►
company like those are only made by
◼
►
Samsung they can currently only be made
◼
►
by Samsung that's probably doesn't make
◼
►
Apple feel good from like just reliance
◼
►
perspective not to mention the fact that
◼
►
that company is Samsung which is I'm
◼
►
sure they don't love and yet they buy
◼
►
like a lot of flash from Samsung and
◼
►
stuff but you can also get flash from
◼
►
other people if you need to no one else
◼
►
can make that OLED screen that's innate
◼
►
that's in the iPhone 10 in addition to
◼
►
the fact that they're you know giving
◼
►
tons of money to Samsung so like it does
◼
►
seem like an obvious thing for Apple to
◼
►
try to take display technology in house
◼
►
the same way they've taken other
◼
►
critical parts like the you know the
◼
►
a-series system-on-a-chip and stuff like
◼
►
that like that does make total sense
◼
►
whether they can do it or not I have no
◼
►
idea I don't know anything about this
◼
►
it seems really ambitious like there's
◼
►
probably a really good reason so far why
◼
►
only Samsung can make these you know
◼
►
good enough so OLED screens so you know
◼
►
Apple you know going into micro LED
◼
►
which I've never even heard of until
◼
►
this room I didn't even know what was
◼
►
maybe that's easier maybe that's you
◼
►
know a thing they can do maybe they've
◼
►
made some acquisitions towards that I
◼
►
have no idea but it's it's a totally
◼
►
like defensible and sensible thing for
◼
►
them to be doing whether ever amounts to
◼
►
anything who knows but it would be kind
◼
►
of cool if it did because I can't
◼
►
imagine that they love depending on
◼
►
Samsung especially just Samsung and
◼
►
instead of just instead of like having a
◼
►
balance and also other things they have
◼
►
taken in-house tend to be pretty awesome
◼
►
like what like the Apple version of it
◼
►
that comes out later you know it can't
◼
►
tends to be better than the
◼
►
off-the-shelf stuff at the time you know
◼
►
look at what they've done with the
◼
►
a-series CPUs what they're doing with
◼
►
the GPUs now what they're doing with you
◼
►
know with the the SSD controller in the
◼
►
Mac Pro like the TE thing the wireless
◼
►
Bluetooth W chips like there's there's
◼
►
so many different things now that
◼
►
they're doing in-house that used to be
◼
►
you know third-party manufacturer
◼
►
components and the Apple versions
◼
►
because of the integration and the
◼
►
tie-ins and the optimizations they can
◼
►
do are just better so if they can do
◼
►
that same thing to displays cool so this
◼
►
strategy I don't know if vertically
◼
►
integrated is the right word because I
◼
►
never went to business school but this
◼
►
this strategy of aggressively in the
◼
►
whatever timco quotas owning controlling
◼
►
the major technologies that make up
◼
►
their products is actually more more
◼
►
ambitious and more more more aggressive
◼
►
than the apple of old even the apple of
◼
►
apples heyday which is topic we will
◼
►
continue not to get to in this program
◼
►
because it used to be that it may be not
◼
►
just Apple but across the entire
◼
►
industry for computer makers there were
◼
►
people who made computers and there were
◼
►
people who made parts that go into
◼
►
computers and there were a lot of parts
◼
►
suppliers for almost every component
◼
►
every once in a while there would be a
◼
►
part supplier that has something novel
◼
►
you know so Sony with 3.5 inch floppy
◼
►
disk was it change from the other floppy
◼
►
disks it's very a very Sony very Sony
◼
►
type change of like we're going to
◼
►
improve on this thing we have a new idea
◼
►
of how floppy disks could work check
◼
►
this out I'm not sure if Sony was the
◼
►
maker of that thing would they but the
◼
►
Sony 3.5 inch floppy drive is it just to
◼
►
give an example and Sony Apple would
◼
►
either know that they made it or Sony
◼
►
would pitch them on making I think
◼
►
there's a good story about the Macintosh
◼
►
engineers hiding a Saudi engineer in a
◼
►
closet not to let some higher-up know
◼
►
that they were looking into getting a
◼
►
3.5 inch floppy drive because they were
◼
►
still insisting that it had to use a
◼
►
five and a quarter which would have been
◼
►
good job closet hiding people
◼
►
we'll put a link to that in the show
◼
►
notes and the synergy between hey I'm a
◼
►
part supplier and we have this cool idea
◼
►
for the thing and hey I'm a person who
◼
►
uses parts to make products maybe we can
◼
►
make a novel or interesting product or
◼
►
line of products out of this and it's a
◼
►
good deal for you because you get to
◼
►
make you whole product that's a good
◼
►
deal for us cuz we came up with this
◼
►
novel product and eventually everyone
◼
►
can make 3.5 inch floppies because they
◼
►
somehow skirted these super stupid world
◼
►
of patents enough to be able to have the
◼
►
part manufactured across the industry
◼
►
the iPod is another example whatever
◼
►
that hard drive maker was was an Itachi
◼
►
or whoever came up with those really
◼
►
teeny tiny hard drives the light bulb
◼
►
goes off like what could we do with a
◼
►
little hard drive like that it's really
◼
►
cool and you get something like the iPod
◼
►
right but eventually all sorts of little
◼
►
hard drives are available or flash
◼
►
replaces the hard drives or like there's
◼
►
no sort of monopoly on one kind of thing
◼
►
and so Apple in the in the days when
◼
►
that was the way the industry worked was
◼
►
more or less content to say we're going
◼
►
to source our parts from the best parts
◼
►
available who has the best screens who
◼
►
has the best RAM or the you know the
◼
►
best combination of you can manufacture
◼
►
a lot of them it has a good price they
◼
►
have good performance David Crawley
◼
►
control they would shop around from the
◼
►
parts suppliers and from product to
◼
►
product in year to year they'd pick
◼
►
different screens or different Ram or
◼
►
different hard drives or different video
◼
►
cards back when they weren't really
◼
►
super met at Nvidia yeah like and and
◼
►
that's how they built their computers
◼
►
there's a bunch of companies making
◼
►
parts and we will pick among them and
◼
►
maybe we'll try to influence their
◼
►
roadmaps and maybe once in a while
◼
►
someone has a great thing we will
◼
►
assemble them into a product the more
◼
►
aggressive strategy is to say I see the
◼
►
world the parts manufacturers out there
◼
►
and they make all sorts of interesting
◼
►
things and sometimes every once in a
◼
►
while someone has a really cool one that
◼
►
sparks our interest and we can make a
◼
►
cool product at it but that's not good
◼
►
enough we know exactly what we want we
◼
►
want to push the envelope in a specific
◼
►
direction we have an idea of how this
◼
►
could be done better in service of a
◼
►
kind of product or even a specific
◼
►
product that we have in mind and we're
◼
►
not going to try to coerce or cajole
◼
►
some other parts maker into making it
◼
►
and we're not going to wait around for
◼
►
someone else to make it and we're not
◼
►
going to buy anyone elses off-the-shelf
◼
►
parts and try to cobble together stuff
◼
►
off the shelf we're going to design
◼
►
our own CPUs for our phones but their
◼
►
own GPUs in them and our own weird you
◼
►
know step counting neural network
◼
►
fingerprint sensing secure Enclave