The Accidental Tech Podcast

261: Seven-Dollar Plastic Garbage


  last summer and I started using Waze a [TS]

  lot going to Long Island is you know [TS]

  always a traffic nightmare especially [TS]

  when you go on the weekends when [TS]

  everyone else is going and I have since [TS]

  been using Waze so yeah for about a year [TS]

  and I've been using it since then also [TS]

  and Waze is so much better than every [TS]

  other traffic routing system I have ever [TS]

  used by a longshot [TS]

  so the point where it has earned my [TS]

  trust [TS]

  when Waze tells me to go a certain way I [TS]

  go that way it has not steered me wrong [TS]

  yet it is so good and I know that [TS]

  there's I know first of all it's owned [TS]

  by Google and it is constantly sending [TS]

  lots of data to them and really burns [TS]

  your battery so you gotta have plugged [TS]

  in I'm aware of the trade-offs here for [TS]

  you know privacy and creepiness for this [TS]

  service but it's so dramatically is [TS]

  better than everything else out there in [TS]

  so many ways it has earned my trust and [TS]

  I highly suggest if anyone else is okay [TS]

  with giving a whole bunch of your [TS]

  location data to Google while you're [TS]

  using Waze I strongly suggest using it [TS]

  when you drive somewhere and there's [TS]

  lots of other things about it that they [TS]

  you a lot of people first heard about it [TS]

  because of its it's a feature where [TS]

  people can report where police officers [TS]

  are and it'll like alert you hey there's [TS]

  a police officer up ahead five you know [TS]

  point five miles ahead or whatever [TS]

  that's honestly that's a side benefit [TS]

  the traffic routing is really where it's [TS]

  at that is where Waze kicks so much but [TS]

  across everything else and it's also [TS]

  incredibly good at time estimates like I [TS]

  can go on a two hour drive with lots of [TS]

  traffic in the middle and whatever time [TS]

  estimate Waze told me at the beginning [TS]

  of the drive when I would arrive on a [TS]

  two hour traffic fill drive it's right [TS]

  within like five minutes almost every [TS]

  time it's crazy how accurate the time is [TS]

  Matar so unlike a lot of the other [TS]

  systems I've used you know you don't you [TS]

  don't sit there and watch the time or [TS]

  count up and really she's really [TS]

  discouraging like you you know ahead of [TS]

  time roughly what you're getting into [TS]

  and you can even plan drives you can say [TS]

  like I'm going to be driving from here [TS]

  to here tomorrow morning what time [TS]

  should I leave and you can scroll [TS]

  through this cool [TS]

  graph where it'll show you like well if [TS]

  you if you leave an hour earlier it'll [TS]

  take less time and if you go near this [TS]

  stair this time zone it'll get really [TS]

  traffic you but then it'll lessen out [TS]

  down here after rush hour like it's so [TS]

  nice that it is one of the very few [TS]

  things that I'm very willing to give up [TS]

  a massive amount of my privacy and my [TS]

  data for the incredible benefit that it [TS]

  gives so John why am I wrong about [TS]

  everything by the way that was roughly [TS]

  four minutes well done so yes I would [TS]

  love to see what those graphs look like [TS]

  if you're like in the Hamptons and it's [TS]

  Sunday night it should be like just go [TS]

  to sleep try them try on Monday morning [TS]

  like if I leave now I'll get home in [TS]

  seven hours but ever leave five hours [TS]

  now I'll get home in one and a half [TS]

  hours hmm [TS]

  so this ways has been the topic was so [TS]

  long I have no idea what I think I was [TS]

  gonna say do have something one one [TS]

  fairly silly but possibly depressing [TS]

  thing to say about it I have ways on my [TS]

  phone at various times during drives or [TS]

  before I would know what was going to [TS]

  take a drive I'm like we use Waze [TS]

  because there might be traffic and I'm [TS]

  interested in alternate routes I've [TS]

  tried to use Waze by launching the [TS]

  application and it just sent me into [TS]

  like a sign-up funnel that I have never [TS]

  made it through and I don't remember now [TS]

  what it is that was sending me away but [TS]

  I think at least three or four times I [TS]

  was motivated to use Waze I started down [TS]

  whatever funnel of sign up thing they [TS]

  had for me and partway through I bailed [TS]

  out because it was like too onerous did [TS]

  one like my social security number did [TS]

  it I'm not one of those people like [TS]

  whatever take my email I'll make a [TS]

  password I don't care I'll make an [TS]

  account like it's not like I'm you know [TS]

  shy about making accounts but there was [TS]

  something about the signup process and [TS]

  this I think it's like the first app [TS]

  that has happened to it [TS]

  it's memorable to me because I have been [TS]

  repeatedly motivated to try the app [TS]

  because people say it's good and yet it [TS]

  keeps repelling me so I have no idea if [TS]

  it's changed since the last time I've [TS]

  tried it but whatever it is like I [TS]

  couldn't get through to the app to use [TS]

  the app because of this funnel that it [TS]

  was sending me through [TS]

  find that kind of depressing my question [TS]

  for Marco is what are the competitors [TS]

  like you mention waves compared deals [TS]

  what other things have you tried because [TS]

  I don't honestly I don't even know I [TS]

  know Apple Maps I know Google Maps and I [TS]

  know ways and that's it yeah so I those [TS]

  three those those are the part of the [TS]

  big ones I've also used the built in [TS]

  systems for Tesla the Tesla system is [TS]

  garbage [TS]

  it has Google map tiles which is nice so [TS]

  you can see the good maps but through I [TS]

  probably some weird licensing thing it [TS]

  doesn't use Google for the directions [TS]

  like Tesla I think has their own service [TS]

  or licensing something else for the [TS]

  routing and so like the Google tiles are [TS]

  literally just there like as the image [TS]

  of the map and so Tesla has its own [TS]

  system for routing that has options for [TS]

  for dynamic traffic routing and it is [TS]

  horrible I don't recommend anybody use [TS]

  it for that like to the point I had this [TS]

  giant touchscreen in my car which I love [TS]

  all other times and will often use like [TS]

  two browser on the map to see like you [TS]

  know what areas around me are full of [TS]

  traffic right now if I'm like going [TS]

  somewhere local or I want to see like [TS]

  how how would you get there the giant s [TS]

  the map is awesome for that but then [TS]

  I'll have my phone in this little like [TS]

  seven dollar suction cup mount right [TS]

  next to the Tesla screen running ways [TS]

  when I'm actually going somewhere like [TS]

  on the highway because it's so much [TS]

  better I'm sorry the test system is [TS]

  terrible [TS]

  I've also tried the Lexus system and two [TS]

  or three generations of the BMW idrive [TS]

  system none of them are very good the [TS]

  the traffic routing on all of them is [TS]

  pretty poor BMW system also has the [TS]

  additional benefit of being [TS]

  incomprehensible wet like when it's [TS]

  offering youth traffic routing options [TS]

  case you've seen this like it can be [TS]

  pretty awkward to try to figure out like [TS]

  what button here do I hit to take this [TS]

  route or decline this route and then if [TS]

  you decline it can you go back later and [TS]

  see it or what is it going to do for you [TS]

  it's it's very confusing and very hard [TS]

  to use all these all the other systems [TS]

  have led me down crazy paths and and [TS]

  that didn't pay off and made terrible [TS]

  time estimates along the way and made [TS]

  terrible decisions along the way where [TS]

  ways just hasn't like I think I've had [TS]

  maybe one or two times where Waze told [TS]

  me to do something and afterwards I [TS]

  thought maybe that wasn't worth it but [TS]

  it's nothing like with the other systems [TS]

  where like you take one of the traffic [TS]

  suggestions and every [TS]

  you're like Oh God Tesla does not know [TS]

  what speed traffic moves on side streets [TS]

  in New York City like that's crazy [TS]

  like that's it's that level of bad with [TS]

  the other systems and ways just again it [TS]

  has earned my trust it like when weighs [TS]

  tells me to take some direction even if [TS]

  I know that it's gonna be indirect I [TS]

  know they're telling me for a good [TS]

  reason [TS]

  and so I take it and it works almost [TS]

  every time it's shocking how good it is [TS]

  oh yeah well you have the advantage that [TS]

  the New York metro area probably has [TS]

  incredibly good coverage for like ways [TS]

  information right oh yeah I mean like [TS]

  there's a reason why like if you get [TS]

  into any lyft or uber or even a lot of [TS]

  taxis and and car services like the [TS]

  drivers of almost all these services use [TS]

  Waze to route themselves like I see you [TS]

  can see who watch when they like on [TS]

  their phones that they have mounted so [TS]

  uh comes they'll have multiple phones [TS]

  one of them running like you know the [TS]

  lyft driver app and one of them running [TS]

  ways and even if they only have one [TS]

  phone like they'll be switching between [TS]

  those two F's they'll be actually using [TS]

  Waze to wrap them there and whatever map [TS]

  goober a lyft is telling them to take as [TS]

  the driver they're mostly ignoring [TS]

  because we this is better so yeah [TS]

  obviously like it is it is obviously a [TS]

  very dependent service so if you're in [TS]

  an area where there's not a lot of users [TS]

  of it it's it's not gonna be as good a [TS]

  traffic routing but it's really popular [TS]

  and it's been really popular for a long [TS]

  time and it's really popular among [TS]

  people who drive a lot like taxi drivers [TS]

  so there tends to be a lot of ways [TS]

  coverage pretty much everywhere in my [TS]

  experience I've used the Google app and [TS]

  it is suggested to me alternate routes I [TS]

  don't know of goo I mean Google if they [TS]

  own ways I would think they would [TS]

  leverage some of the information but I [TS]

  think I do [TS]

  if the goulds you know so every once in [TS]

  a while I have taken these suggested [TS]

  alternate route from Google and so far [TS]

  has its DB room but they haven't been [TS]

  radically different it doesn't like take [TS]

  this major highway instead of this one [TS]

  because there's an accident Mike alright [TS]

  good thanks but for the most part I have [TS]

  not entered the world of you know you [TS]

  know letting go and letting ways just [TS]

  tell me where to go so I have not done [TS]

  any sort of scientific testing on this [TS]

  but my completely anecdotal single data [TS]

  point based on my experience is that [TS]

  Google does use the same data the ways [TS]

  does but it seems [TS]

  to be a lot less aggressive about [TS]

  routing you through somebody's backyard [TS]

  like Marco was talking about like it [TS]

  will keep you to only ever so slightly [TS]

  aggressive changes of route whereas ways [TS]

  will send you through a residential [TS]

  street and not even think twice about it [TS]

  it also it's kind of funny when you are [TS]

  doing that there's almost always two [TS]

  cars ahead of you who are following the [TS]

  exact same route and you can tell like [TS]

  oh this is the Waze cluster right here [TS]

  we're all the ways users are going [TS]

  through this random residential street [TS]

  but then we pop onto the highway [TS]

  magically right in front of a giant [TS]

  traffic jam it's like okay well I guess [TS]

  that was worth it after all it's it's [TS]

  totally true the one the one thing that [TS]

  really bothers me about ways has almost [TS]

  nothing to do with Waze at all and at [TS]

  the risk of sounding like a broken [TS]

  record and what do I need for that a [TS]

  vinyl player is that right anyway the [TS]

  vinyl Turner I believe it's called a [TS]

  vinyl Turner that's what it is at there [TS]

  is sounding like a broken record one of [TS]

  the things that really bums me out about [TS]

  Waze is that if I'm in Aaron's car and [TS]

  she has a 20-17 xc90 a Volvo xc90 with [TS]

  carplay if I'm an aaron's car and you [TS]

  must run into this in the BMW if you [TS]

  ever take that for any long journey and [TS]

  you can't I know I know but you can't [TS]

  use Waze natively on carplay I'm not [TS]

  clear and it may be but that that's [TS]

  entirely wases fault I don't think [TS]

  that's the case it's not there's no the [TS]

  only way that other apps can integrate [TS]

  with carplay is as audio playing apps [TS]

  that's it there's no other api's for and [TS]

  no other integrations that they've done [TS]

  with partners or anything like it's it's [TS]

  only audio playback there you go so it [TS]

  is infuriating that here is a really [TS]

  really lovely perfectly well maybe not [TS]

  perfectly but really well-thought-out [TS]

  secondary display for my phone that that [TS]

  is right in the center console right [TS]

  where you would want to look at it and [TS]

  there is nothing that weighs can do [TS]

  about that in ways can't use it at all [TS]

  and it's super duper frustrating one of [TS]

  the nice things about Aaron's car is [TS]

  that you know I will often plug in my [TS]

  phone to her car in and so we are [TS]

  looking at the car played display of my [TS]

  phone on the senator display because [TS]

  it's easy for me as a passenger to [TS]

  reroute her or choose different route or [TS]

  whatever the case may be [TS]

  on Apple Maps or just do something [TS]

  different you know to change where we're [TS]

  going or so whatever they gives maybe [TS]

  it's nice as the passenger to be able to [TS]

  do that but to effect the the display [TS]

  that she is looking at so I don't have [TS]

  to call out every four seconds make a [TS]

  right make a left make a right make a [TS]

  left she goes look down and see it for [TS]

  herself and that would be amazing with [TS]

  Waze and I would kill to be able to have [TS]

  ways on Erin's carplay display but [TS]

  because Apple is the Walia stuff walled [TS]

  gardens no dice and this is the same [TS]

  problem I have a Spotify on the home pod [TS]

  and it is getting to the point that I am [TS]

  starting to get deeply frustrated about [TS]

  this deeply frustrated enough to go [TS]

  Android yeah let's not go crazy [TS]

  but I am getting deeply frustrated by [TS]

  this and I don't feel like Apple is [TS]

  really doing themselves any service [TS]

  particularly in this context I could see [TS]

  how yeah okay fine let the home pod [TS]

  Drive Apple music sales fine whatever [TS]

  but I still disagree with it but I can [TS]

  at least understand the perspective but [TS]

  in this case like why are you forcing [TS]

  people to use Apple maps and I actually [TS]

  don't have that much of a problem with [TS]

  Apple maps and I'll turn to that when [TS]

  I'm doing any sort of normal like half [TS]

  an hour or an hour journey but if I'm [TS]

  doing like what you're talking about [TS]

  Marco going to going to the beach or [TS]

  doing like a two-hour plus journey I'm [TS]

  always all the time and especially if [TS]

  I'm going to DC which is a traffic [TS]

  nightmare I'm go I'm going waste for [TS]

  that and so it is infuriating that [TS]

  because of hubris because of [TS]

  obnoxiousness I don't know what [TS]

  adjectives you want to want to use here [TS]

  but for whatever reason laziness [TS]

  Apple just does not let us use the one [TS]

  app that I think almost everyone [TS]

  universally wants to use I think I [TS]

  understand why they like our play is so [TS]

  limited I think they're just very [TS]

  nervous about putting arbitrary [TS]

  third-party iOS you deserve interfaces [TS]

  up on a screen even if just for just [TS]

  even just for display purposes that they [TS]

  just want to be conservative and say [TS]

  these are the things that we've decided [TS]

  are not are don't distract drivers I [TS]

  don't know that that are distraction [TS]

  free enough that we feel like we are at [TS]

  the right band of [TS]

  legal exposure yeah and and cuz and [TS]

  there's also like you know it's it's a [TS]

  difficult problem because there are so [TS]

  many different laws in different [TS]

  countries and even different states [TS]

  about what a car screen can display and [TS]

  how much you know how much can it change [TS]

  how many items can be like in a list of [TS]

  items because they don't they don't want [TS]

  people like browsing long lists while [TS]

  they're driving like there's so many [TS]

  regulations and stuff that it's you know [TS]

  and again when you're dealing with auto [TS]

  safety you really have to be very [TS]

  conservative because literally lives are [TS]

  at stake if you're not and so there's [TS]

  lots of regulations and and safety [TS]

  concerns there so it makes sense why [TS]

  they don't add much to it but the [TS]

  reality then is what people do is what [TS]

  I've done with my car is like that you [TS]

  just get a cell phone mount for seven [TS]

  dollars and you stick it to the car and [TS]

  then you have your phone screen [TS]

  available to you yeah maybe that's an [TS]

  acceptable compromise because then like [TS]

  you know they're they're like legally [TS]

  covered he's like well we didn't do that [TS]

  you know I wonder if that's necessarily [TS]

  the best idea but ultimately it doesn't [TS]

  really matter whether it's a good idea [TS]

  or not that's what everyone's doing it's [TS]

  like and across all walks of life [TS]

  Android and iOS like that's what [TS]

  everyone does is they want to use Waze [TS]

  in their car which a lot of people do [TS]

  they just get a cell phone mount and [TS]

  stick it to the dashboard of the [TS]

  windshield and it's not the best setup [TS]

  in the world but it's fine [TS]

  it'll be increasingly wasteful as large [TS]

  screens and cars trickles down from the [TS]

  high end to basically every car which is [TS]

  slowly but surely happening you know [TS]

  right now you feel a frustration I got a [TS]

  70 inch LCD in my Tesla and I got a look [TS]

  at my little phone screen because I [TS]

  can't display ways on my giant Tesla [TS]

  screen right and the same thing with all [TS]

  the high-end cars that have displays in [TS]

  front of the driver and the in the you [TS]

  know instrument cluster and everything [TS]

  like that [TS]

  fast forward 10 15 years where every [TS]

  single car you buy has like two or three [TS]

  giant screens in them and still people [TS]

  are flipping things to ventilation [TS]

  you know ports so they can look at their [TS]

  tiny phone screen and have all the wires [TS]

  dangling all over the place that that's [TS]

  bad it's not good I'm not quite sure [TS]

  what the solution is because I don't [TS]

  think you should just let arbitrary [TS]

  phones display whatever they want on [TS]

  this [TS]

  means in the car but that may be [TS]

  inevitable the only thing comparison I [TS]

  can think of is one that is not [TS]

  particularly not a particularly good [TS]

  comparison which is radar detectors [TS]

  which there are all sorts of laws [TS]

  against swell but I don't think we ever [TS]

  got to the point where any car [TS]

  manufacturer was brave enough to build [TS]

  them into the car right so everyone who [TS]

  wants to have a radar detector or a [TS]

  laser detector or whatever in the days [TS]

  before we had ways to tell us where the [TS]

  cops are would have a device with a [TS]

  suction cup and a cable snaking down [TS]

  along their car and it never changed [TS]

  from that like even cars with a radar [TS]

  you know I don't know if they have the [TS]

  sensors built-in for that but you know [TS]

  self-driving cars that have ultra senses [TS]

  all over them I don't think any of those [TS]

  sensors are dedicated to finding a laser [TS]

  or a radar speed detection or could even [TS]

  be hack to do so and you know the [TS]

  current solution is internet and [TS]

  crowdsourcing that's how we find that [TS]

  but I'm hoping the screen issue resolves [TS]

  itself in a better way because unlike [TS]

  speed trap detection stuff I think it is [TS]

  possible to have a constructive useful [TS]

  non law-breaking application of better [TS]

  directions inside our cars because most [TS]

  cars have some way to do directions at a [TS]

  map and and all the stuff we just want [TS]

  we just want an environment where we can [TS]

  choose the best map for whatever area we [TS]

  live in and not have to like the home [TS]

  pod or all sorts of other device not [TS]

  have to pick the hardware based on what [TS]

  software runs on it yeah because and you [TS]

  know at first of all like I think this [TS]

  is different than the radar detector [TS]

  example in in the largest way because [TS]

  it's so much more mass-market than radar [TS]

  detectors ever were or will be like so [TS]

  many more people use cell phone mounts [TS]

  in their cars than ever use radar [TS]

  detectors you know and because that was [TS]

  always such a kind of you know edge case [TS]

  for like high strongmen basically and [TS]

  and so like you know but this is like [TS]

  this is so mass-market like people like [TS]

  Apple or Tesla who are like you know [TS]

  designing things for cars where that [TS]

  that don't accommodate the fact that [TS]

  everyone's gonna just use cell phone [TS]

  mounts unless they make a better [TS]

  solution to put any app on the screen [TS]

  I feel like that like that fight has [TS]

  already it's already past them like that [TS]

  the market has already decided we want [TS]

  arbitrary apps to be able to be [TS]

  displayed on our phones in our cars and [TS]

  that's terrible because it's very unsafe [TS]

  like that you don't want people like [TS]

  showing like you know a texting app or [TS]

  something like we're like watching [TS]

  YouTube videos or whatever right like [TS]

  there's lots of reasons why that's [TS]

  terrible but the reality is people are [TS]

  doing it and people will continue to do [TS]

  it because for very compelling and [TS]

  totally legitimate and safe uses like [TS]

  Waze or other navigation apps that's [TS]

  such a compelling use that people are [TS]

  just gonna do it anyway so they might as [TS]

  well you know the more pragmatic [TS]

  solution here is not to try to you know [TS]

  stop people from doing that or try to [TS]

  lock people in to just you know your [TS]

  built-in thing and your in whatever you [TS]

  know gated system you run but to [TS]

  acknowledge the fact that people are [TS]

  doing this and will do this and try to [TS]

  give them a better safer way to do what [TS]

  they're going to do anyway the Tesla [TS]

  Model 3 of the Interior is correct [TS]

  actually throw right into it and it [TS]

  doesn't have vents and there is no sense [TS]

  where you can clip in your holder so [TS]

  you'd have to use like a windshield [TS]

  suction cup in it in that case I don't [TS]

  know how far away that windshield is oh [TS]

  good yeah I don't know if that would [TS]

  work so I I started out with a vent clip [TS]

  and moved to a suction cup with like a [TS]

  little like you know two inch are more [TS]

  foreign charm and it for just it's [TS]

  because the suction cup thing or the [TS]

  event thing just kept falling out as my [TS]

  phone got bigger and heavier and and as [TS]

  I accelerated harder sometimes but it [TS]

  works for me because there was like a [TS]

  there's like a flat piece of trim right [TS]

  below the vent so I just have it suction [TS]

  cup like vertically to that but that [TS]

  like I'm kind of worried that whenever [TS]

  the next Model S revision comes out [TS]

  which is probably I think gonna be in [TS]

  time for my next lease I'm a little [TS]

  worried they might like change the [TS]

  interior like the three and not give me [TS]

  a spot to stick a suction cup then [TS]

  you'll have to do it on the windshield [TS]

  on an even longer arm because the [TS]

  windshield is really far away I really [TS]

  don't want to do that I really don't [TS]

  wanna do that it puts it too too high up [TS]

  for me that's what that's that's why I [TS]

  reminded me of radar detectors even [TS]

  though like you said you know way more [TS]

  common [TS]

  like it's the ugliness of messing up [TS]

  your car's interior with this extra wart [TS]

  then you have to stick onto it plus the [TS]

  Associated cord that's attached to the [TS]

  board well that's that's why I resisted [TS]

  it for so long like why I just want to [TS]

  do the built-in systems for so long and [TS]

  then why my first thing was just a [TS]

  little you know vent mount because that [TS]

  was something I just keep in little like [TS]

  center console and just like when I [TS]

  wanted to use it take it out take out a [TS]

  lightning cable and you know stick it on [TS]

  there and use it and then when I was [TS]

  done I would take it away and it took [TS]

  you know three or four months of that [TS]

  before I look alright I'm sold on this [TS]

  setup I'm in let me do it right and make [TS]

  it less annoying unless finicky and now [TS]

  I just have a permanent suction cup [TS]

  stuck to the stuck right next to my [TS]

  giant touchscreen of my beautiful car [TS]

  interior with this permanent or [TS]

  semi-permanent wire running down the [TS]

  side because it just has that much [TS]

  utility like it's it's so good it's so [TS]

  helpful that that's what like that I'm [TS]

  willing to tarnish my interior with this [TS]

  seven dollar plastic garbage that's next [TS]

  to my beautiful screen because it is [TS]

  just that useful to me one thing that [TS]

  could make this slightly less clumsy the [TS]

  idea of rededicating old devices to [TS]

  specific uses the tricky part with [TS]

  directions is like yeah but who's gonna [TS]

  pay for a phone that only lives in their [TS]

  car forever right so but some fancy [TS]

  schmancy cars come with their own like [TS]

  it cell connections that granted you [TS]

  have to pay for but you know if you're [TS]

  paying for an internet connection for [TS]

  like an LTE connection for your car then [TS]

  you could reuse and all the iphone with [TS]

  no sim in it merely going on the cars [TS]

  Wi-Fi and permanently mounted or an old [TS]

  ipad for that matter and permanently [TS]

  mount it somewhere in your car and have [TS]

  it be a single purpose device the only [TS]

  thing this thing does is runs the Waze [TS]

  application and it's permantly plugged [TS]

  in and i can route the wire like you're [TS]

  basically designing your own car [TS]

  interior i have a dedicated ipod touch [TS]

  in my car for music purposes you know I [TS]

  can Bluetooth play music from my phone [TS]

  as well but it's nice to have a [TS]

  dedicated thing that's always in the car [TS]

  always connected always plugged in I [TS]

  could see people doing that with with [TS]

  directions if it was possible to get to [TS]

  work oh yeah III honestly considered [TS]

  using a cellular iPad Mini for this [TS]

  purpose because I feel that that's kind [TS]

  of like a really good balance like it [TS]

  doesn't cost much to have the cell [TS]

  on that it's a pretty good-sized screen [TS]

  bigger than any phone it's like if you [TS]

  like if there was a place for that to [TS]

  fit in my interior without blocking a [TS]

  third of the screen I might have done [TS]

  that you've got a model three because [TS]

  there's nothing on that dashboard [TS]

  playing uh anyway no it's funny you [TS]

  bring that up John that because as we [TS]

  were talking I was thinking to myself [TS]

  you know Aaron's car does have an LTE [TS]

  connection that we're not paying for and [TS]

  you can like COFF near a cell cellphone [TS]

  store and get a free Android phone I [TS]

  could get a free Android phone install [TS]

  only ways on it turn everything else off [TS]

  installed at Aaron's car and just have [TS]

  that be our car computer you know [TS]

  because it supports Android auto as well [TS]

  and I am almost sure even you know [TS]

  regardless of the fact that Google now [TS]

  owns ways I don't think they have near [TS]

  as many restrictions as far as I'm aware [TS]

  on Android auto as as Apple does and [TS]

  thus why couldn't I just get the world's [TS]

  crappiest you know Android phone I guess [TS]

  it's kind of redundant isn't it anyway [TS]

  this is a good test of KC's sense of [TS]

  injustice about cell phone plans all [TS]

  right so the watch which is very small [TS]

  was a great affront because it charged [TS]

  you however much you charge you yeah the [TS]

  car is very very big so how much does a [TS]

  cell connection for your car cost and do [TS]

  you feel it is okay I think it's the [TS]

  same or it's double one or the other and [TS]

  this is why we haven't paid for yourself [TS]

  like we got our free six gigs whatever [TS]

  was when we bought the car and I've ever [TS]

  paid for it since because I also don't [TS]

  think that's worth the money either but [TS]

  the car is so big oh my god I'm not [TS]

  going to entertain this conversation I'm [TS]

  a hundred percent true no it's not true [TS]

  because I'm not paying for it how many [TS]

  watches could fit in them in the mass of [TS]

  the car all I'm saying is like that I I [TS]

  firmly believe that it seems more unjust [TS]

  because the watch is small then it would [TS]

  for a larger I'm not debating that I [TS]

  completely grew and so the car is the [TS]

  largest device how often would you use [TS]

  the car weighs LTE connection and versus [TS]

  how often do you use the watch's LTE [TS]

  connection have you are you actually [TS]

  using the LTE still yeah two to three [TS]

  times a week well not for the last two [TS]

  months because I just had a kid and it's [TS]

  been [TS]

  please now yes anytime I go for a run I [TS]

  go with only air pods and my watch and [TS]

  so every time I do that I well I guess I [TS]

  shouldn't say I am using the LTE [TS]

  connection but I want to have the [TS]

  ability to does that make sense so like [TS]

  if I break an ankle or something I want [TS]

  to be able to call Aaron and say please [TS]

  come get me you know I would I would I [TS]

  would count that as using like if you're [TS]

  going out without your phone and that's [TS]

  yeah being connected via LT that that [TS]

  counts as using it and this is why I'm [TS]

  paying for it like I'm grumbling about [TS]

  why grumbled about it I didn't bring it [TS]

  up this time thank you very much but I [TS]

  did my grumbling I moved on with my life [TS]

  this is why I do pay for the watch and [TS]

  we didn't pay for the car and haven't [TS]

  paid for the car or the LTE connection [TS]

  in the car that is because I did the [TS]

  math if just in a in a figurative sense [TS]

  I did the math not even literally [TS]

  arithmetic and I thought you know what [TS]

  it's very rare that I'm in the car long [TS]

  enough to justify using its connection [TS]

  even if I am i can just tether there's [TS]

  really no need for me to pay for a [TS]

  connection in the car would it be more [TS]

  convenient if it was free [TS]

  absolutely is it worth and I think it's [TS]

  either 10 or 20 bucks a month I can't [TS]

  remember which is it worth that money [TS]

  for it mmm no probably not [TS]

  I only brought it up to say it is a [TS]

  solution one could do is get even if [TS]

  you're a devout you know iOS person you [TS]

  could get a free Android phone stick [TS]

  ways on it hook it up to either [TS]

  tethering on your you know existing i/o [TS]

  you know iPhone or just hook it up to [TS]

  your car what-have-you use Android auto [TS]

  and everyone's happy I don't recommend [TS]

  it but you could you know what I'm [TS]

  totally fine having a $7 piece of [TS]

  plastic stuck to my dashboard [TS]

  semi-permanently but I don't think I [TS]

  would ever put an Android phone there [TS]

  could you even tell that it's an Android [TS]

  phone because doesn't the way he's [TS]

  interfacing look the same I would know [TS]

  yeah additionally it's clear that [TS]

  neither of you have ever owned a radar [TS]

  detector or installed one properly [TS]

  because on my 300s next my Valentine one [TS]

  was hardwired into the car you could see [TS]

  wires absolutely nowhere he like took it [TS]

  like under the trim and stuff like that [TS]

  all right yeah yeah yep and also I had a [TS]

  remote display on the steering column so [TS]

  the bog the actual radar itself okay so [TS]

  you could see us like a couple inches of [TS]

  wire going from the radar detector into [TS]

  the headliner but the the display for [TS]

  the radar detector was mounted on the [TS]

  steering column it was a secondary [TS]

  display that you could buy and so this [TS]

  way nothing lit up in the [TS]

  in the windshield area it was only it [TS]

  looked like another part of the dash [TS]

  from afar I actually saved myself from a [TS]

  ticket in Virginia where these are well [TS]

  I hypothetically saved myself from a [TS]

  ticket in Virginia or these may or may [TS]

  not be legal but I haven't used my radar [TS]

  detector in years because it's just not [TS]

  worth it anymore I don't drive that [TS]

  quick I think part of the utility of not [TS]

  having a hardwired and having the little [TS]

  coiled up you know phone cord wire [TS]

  snaking across your thing [TS]

  and so you could hastily disconnect it [TS]

  and Chuck into your glove box when you [TS]

  get pulled over all right let's do some [TS]

  ask a TP Stephen the cleaning rights and [TS]

  this is continuing in our car theme our [TS]

  advanced safety features found in cars [TS]

  comparable across manufacturers features [TS]

  that use technology like lane departure [TS]

  warning forward collision warning and [TS]

  blind spot detection are offered in BMWs [TS]

  and han dice or high-end eyes whatever [TS]

  however you are supposed to pronounce it [TS]

  are they equally as effective or are [TS]

  they much better in more expensive cars [TS]

  how can one compare I don't know the [TS]

  answer to this question and I think it [TS]

  would be a really fascinating test if [TS]

  only I knew someone who did car videos [TS]

  from time to time but anyway I I think [TS]

  it's a really interesting question but I [TS]

  have to imagine that they're nearly [TS]

  identical different kind of worms but if [TS]

  you're not talking about automated [TS]

  driving you're just talking about like [TS]

  you know panic stopping on behalf of the [TS]

  driver or something like that you know [TS]

  nudging the driver back into the lane if [TS]

  they're starting to drift [TS]

  I would assume and imagine that they're [TS]

  not that different between both luxury [TS]

  and economy marques would you guys agree [TS]

  with that let's start with Marco I mean [TS]

  John will tell us the real answer here I [TS]

  don't actually from from what I think I [TS]

  think these sensors and systems tend to [TS]

  be sold to multiple car manufacturers [TS]

  that's what I so like like you know like [TS]

  there's like there's you know a small [TS]

  number of companies that make these [TS]

  kinds of systems and then they sell them [TS]

  to BMW and Mercedes and it like you know [TS]

  like they sell the same thing to models [TS]

  of people so I'm sure some people have [TS]

  their own stuff or have exclusives deals [TS]

  on some of the things but some of the [TS]

  features probably are literally [TS]

  identical because they're literally [TS]

  using the same modules and same software [TS]

  and and some of the stuff like you know [TS]

  you mentioned like you know lane [TS]

  departure warning blind spot detection [TS]

  that actually doesn't seem that hard to [TS]

  do like the blind spot detection we're [TS]

  just kind of like lights up a little [TS]

  warning light on your sideview mirror [TS]

  when somebody's in your blind spot like [TS]

  that I don't think is very complicated [TS]

  that seems pretty reliable and pretty [TS]

  easy easy to do these days [TS]

  so like stuff like that I wouldn't [TS]

  expect a lot of variation between [TS]

  manufacturers some of the harder things [TS]

  like automatic emergency braking like if [TS]

  you're about to hit a wall and tries to [TS]

  stop that that kind of thing I would [TS]

  expect to vary a little more obviously [TS]

  as cases anything that tries to steer [TS]

  for you like Tesla's autopilot thing I [TS]

  would expect that too to vary a lot more [TS]

  because it's just a more complex problem [TS]

  so John what's the real answer oh I [TS]

  don't know I asking me because in the [TS]

  same way every car magazine well in the [TS]

  same way that I have never owned a car [TS]

  that doesn't have three pedals unlike [TS]

  everyone else in this podcast I've never [TS]

  owned a car with any of these features [TS]

  lane-departure forward collision blind [TS]

  spot detection I have never had a car [TS]

  with any of those features in it so I [TS]

  have no idea how they work and honestly [TS]

  I've been in the same way with the stick [TS]

  shift I have been intentionally avoiding [TS]

  those features because as far as I've [TS]

  been able to tell from reading things [TS]

  about them and being in other people's [TS]

  cars that have them they can be super [TS]

  annoying if they can't be turned off and [TS]

  if I'm turning them off then why the [TS]

  hell am I paying extra to get them so I [TS]

  that's a John it's so I'm I have thus [TS]

  far avoided getting them it's not to say [TS]

  that I think they're bad I think they [TS]

  are good especially the things I like [TS]

  you know will brake automatically for [TS]

  you if you're not paying attention and [TS]

  stuff like that but I mean and the only [TS]

  ones that even been offered on cars that [TS]

  I've got are the ones that just use like [TS]

  lane departure right and you know I have [TS]

  the pre-tensioning seatbelts and stuff I [TS]

  have like things that you know pull the [TS]

  seat belt tighter when you're in an [TS]

  accident but that's not quite the same [TS]

  thing as these active systems as for [TS]

  what my impression of how they might be [TS]

  on fancy cars which is regular cars as [TS]

  with all car technology they come out [TS]

  first on the expensive cars and so the [TS]

  first first time you're gonna see like [TS]

  lane departure whatever that was however [TS]

  many decades ago was probably on like a [TS]

  BMW or Mercedes or some fancy car right [TS]

  it was surely an s-class yeah and those [TS]

  those features when they first come out [TS]

  are not that great like the very first [TS]

  anti-lock brakes which was also probably [TS]

  on a Mercedes or something like that [TS]

  those anti-lock brakes were not [TS]

  that great by the time aunty like bricks [TS]

  comes down to the Honda Civic it has [TS]

  been refined many many times over and at [TS]

  the point that you get down to the [TS]

  bottom of the the ranks of cars [TS]

  anti-lock brakes are more or less the [TS]

  same from Mercedes s-class all the way [TS]

  down to a Honda Civic become becomes [TS]

  commoditized that doesn't really answer [TS]

  the question for these things because I [TS]

  think they are not yet come on ties [TS]

  especially as Marco pointed out things [TS]

  to steer the car for you not even close [TS]

  to commoditize but I would say right now [TS]

  they're bad on the expensive cars and [TS]

  non-existent on the cheap cars so I [TS]

  don't like for features like that if you [TS]

  run out and get the expensive car just [TS]

  to get the feature you're probably [TS]

  getting the worst version of that [TS]

  feature that is ever going to exist [TS]

  whereas if you ignore that feature for a [TS]

  couple of decades by the time it [TS]

  trickles down to your $15,000 car it'll [TS]

  be about the same across the entire line [TS]

  across the entire auto industry that is [TS]

  self driving is so much more complicated [TS]

  I'm not sure if that applies to but [TS]

  things like lane departure and anti-lock [TS]

  brakes and the front collision warnings [TS]

  and even like a auto following cruise [TS]

  control yeah radar cruise that I feel [TS]

  like you know is filtering down pretty [TS]

  well now and maybe it's not entirely the [TS]

  same across the lines maybe it's a [TS]

  little bit harsher on the bottom ones [TS]

  but it's way better than the very first [TS]

  radar cruise control that came out you [TS]

  know in the 80s or whatever on cadillac [TS]

  or whoever did it first I will say that [TS]

  on Aaron's car she has you know pretty [TS]

  much all of these features and the lane [TS]

  departure or leaned control whatever is [TS]

  tremendous I love it it will just gently [TS]

  nudge you back in the lane and if you [TS]

  start to drift a little bit or whatever [TS]

  the case may be and it works really well [TS]

  I really really like it a lot the panic [TS]

  stop what is it called I forget the [TS]

  forward collision warning that [TS]

  definitely does have some false alarms [TS]

  from time to time now the good news is [TS]

  it's a false alarm that's where it tries [TS]

  for just a flash to stop when it doesn't [TS]

  need to and I'd rather that then it you [TS]

  know just to see oh I'm sure it's great [TS]

  and then we plow into a wall you know [TS]

  but nevertheless it does occasionally go [TS]

  Wow and in it you know kind of just it [TS]

  like instantaneously stands on the [TS]

  brakes for you and then immediately [TS]

  let's go oh wow boy is that startling [TS]

  oh my word is that startling yeah that [TS]

  would scare the crap out of me like I [TS]

  have I have like the audible alerts and [TS]

  I and my car offers automatic emergency [TS]

  braking but I've never had it engaged I [TS]

  mean all at all I I do think it is good [TS]

  and worth it because God forbid I'm not [TS]

  paying attention and something happens [TS]

  but there are definitely some false [TS]

  alarms on it and that's kind of [TS]

  frustrating and that actually reminds me [TS]

  that on the Grand Cherokee that I [TS]

  briefly borrowed before I got the Julia [TS]

  I noticed that every time I was at a [TS]

  stoplight I think I might have talked [TS]

  about this on the show I was at a [TS]

  two-lane stop yesterday I'm making a [TS]

  left and you know I was adjacent to [TS]

  somebody I would start to make the left [TS]

  and it would go berserk because I [TS]

  thought I was I was having a collision [TS]

  with the person next to me and that was [TS]

  really annoying [TS]

  but that's the only instance I can think [TS]

  of where I've seen dramatically [TS]

  different behavior on safety stuff [TS]

  between different different [TS]

  manufacturers but I as we've all said I [TS]

  think self-driving is a totally [TS]

  different conversation that has not yet [TS]

  really been standardized the next one is [TS]

  mostly from Marco this is Geoff Cooney [TS]

  writing what is the deal with Leica [TS]

  cameras I've always loved their [TS]

  industrial design particularly the M [TS]

  models but upon doing some research it [TS]

  seems like their features in spray specs [TS]

  are no better than other cameras from [TS]

  leading companies like canon or sony [TS]

  that cost thousands of dollars less what [TS]

  am I missing about these cameras that [TS]

  commands this exorbitant premium I don't [TS]

  know anything about like the cameras [TS]

  other than that they look pretty and [TS]

  that they're super duper expensive so [TS]

  I'm actually kind of curious as well [TS]

  Marco what's the story here like has [TS]

  been around for a very long time and [TS]

  they have some really impressive [TS]

  engineering and they have built up a [TS]

  really strong reputation for a very long [TS]

  time among high-end usually like more [TS]

  artsy or hobbyist photographers not [TS]

  necessarily pros because they don't [TS]

  quite make gear that would satisfy most [TS]

  like pro needs if you're like a wedding [TS]

  photographer or something like you know [TS]

  you probably not using a Leica for lots [TS]

  of reasons but the they are very very [TS]

  expensive and some of that you are just [TS]

  paying for the brand but they do have a [TS]

  lot of good qualities that make them [TS]

  compelling to certain people some of it [TS]

  is just like if you have a lot of money [TS]

  and you want really a really cool camera [TS]

  like you go like it like some I've heard [TS]

  I've heard them called dentist cameras [TS]

  but Wow yeah but and I I should clarify [TS]

  I have very little experience with them [TS]

  I rented an m9 for Christmas a few years [TS]

  ago I actually made a big blog post with [TS]

  some simple pictures about it and and I [TS]

  found what a lot of people find I think [TS]

  with them is that like the raw specs of [TS]

  it were not very competitive especially [TS]

  for the price things like the sensor [TS]

  like the noise performance and the [TS]

  resolution on the sensor was nowhere [TS]

  near competitive with good sensors that [TS]

  you know of the same time frame things [TS]

  like you know the burst rate and [TS]

  features like like I don't think any of [TS]

  them offer video you know or least they [TS]

  didn't for a long time it it seems like [TS]

  you're paying a really high price for [TS]

  not top-of-the-line technology within [TS]

  them but what really impressed me about [TS]

  like a back then and what still [TS]

  impresses me today about them is two [TS]

  major areas number one the optics in [TS]

  their lenses are just incredible now [TS]

  when I when I when I rented the m9 and [TS]

  vert this post back in in Christmas of [TS]

  2012 Sony the Sony Fe II series was not [TS]

  really quite there yet I think it either [TS]

  wasn't out or was it was just the very [TS]

  first models and Canon had not updated a [TS]

  lot of their lenses the way they have [TS]

  recently and so at back then in 2012 the [TS]

  Leica M lenses were some of the best [TS]

  lenses you could get in the industry and [TS]

  to get the like what blew me away with [TS]

  with my rental of it was the sheer [TS]

  optical quality that this like basic [TS]

  small lens provided it was it was a 35 [TS]

  millimeter you know f2 prime something [TS]

  zoom Acron something I don't know [TS]

  and it and it was like a $3,000 lens [TS]

  like I mean that's it this is why I [TS]

  rented a but it was still like the [TS]

  optical quality blew me away now today [TS]

  we have a lot more options that also [TS]

  provide really good optical quality like [TS]

  basically in the last you know five [TS]

  years or so there's been a huge [TS]

  revolution in lens design especially [TS]

  coming out of Sony and then later on [TS]

  coming [TS]

  and unfortunately Nikon people I haven't [TS]

  been following Nikon that closely I [TS]

  apologize again but you know clearly [TS]

  like the the massive upgrade in lens [TS]

  quality and in krez Ellucian especially [TS]

  coming out of Sony and Canon over the [TS]

  last few years has been astronomical and [TS]

  so like now I feel like you can get [TS]

  similar optical quality if not even [TS]

  maybe better optical quality out of [TS]

  lenses from other manufacturers but back [TS]

  then you couldn't so that was one thing [TS]

  that blew me away that's still like I'm [TS]

  looking looking at this blog post I made [TS]

  like still to this day it's still really [TS]

  really good optics and really good [TS]

  pictures coming out of this the second [TS]

  thing that like it has going for it a [TS]

  lot of the times is that the way a [TS]

  camera interprets the data coming off of [TS]

  its sensors is not all the same between [TS]

  different camera manufacturers every [TS]

  manufacturer and oftentimes even between [TS]

  different models have different ways of [TS]

  interpreting the the raw sensor data and [TS]

  then they have different ways to apply [TS]

  things like color tone and color balance [TS]

  and contrast and sharpening and things [TS]

  like that you know the what you get off [TS]

  the raw sensor is not anywhere close to [TS]

  the final picture with any camera iPhone [TS]

  all the way up to you know like a em [TS]

  whatever like us processing of the [TS]

  photos is just really appealing to me [TS]

  and a lot of people like the way it [TS]

  renders colors the way it renders [TS]

  contrast and things like it just makes [TS]

  really nice pictures without a lot of [TS]

  effort without having to do a lot of [TS]

  post-processing on them or without [TS]

  having to like manually tweak a lot of [TS]

  the colors and color balance and [TS]

  everything else it's again this is [TS]

  another ones area where it's a lot of [TS]

  interest personal preference like like [TS]

  TIFF does not like the way my Sony [TS]

  cameras render colors she she she can't [TS]

  get the color balance she wants out of [TS]

  my Sony's I can't get the color balance [TS]

  I want out of canons it's it's it's a [TS]

  personal preference and Leica has its [TS]

  own color balancing that it does that to [TS]

  me is just incredibly appealing and and [TS]

  that's been one of the only things [TS]

  that's ever really tempted me to give [TS]

  that another try maybe and maybe even [TS]

  buy one is just like the color rendering [TS]

  is just incredible on them and and the [TS]

  way it renders tones and everything it's [TS]

  just really nice so there's areas about [TS]

  photography [TS]

  that aren't just about the specs and [TS]

  this it's hard for it especially because [TS]

  I was getting into this at this hobby [TS]

  and as I've developed over time you know [TS]

  in this hobby it's been hard for me to [TS]

  learn that and and to feel that that [TS]

  like to me it was so much all about [TS]

  specs for so long but now I'm realizing [TS]

  like there's more to it than that and so [TS]

  the appeal of Leica in part it is yes [TS]

  like you know like a rich dentist slash [TS]

  hipster thing because they're cool but [TS]

  it's there's reasons that you would buy [TS]

  it that aren't just because it's cool [TS]

  like it actually backs that up with [TS]

  really nice photo processing really nice [TS]

  you know tones and colors and everything [TS]

  and it's just stunningly good optics in [TS]

  most of their lenses so that being said [TS]

  there's also a couple other like you [TS]

  know they have so many different models [TS]

  now it's hard to keep track so [TS]

  everything I just said was based on my [TS]

  experience with the m9 that's been [TS]

  updated lots since then there's other [TS]

  full-frame rangefinder models there's [TS]

  there they have a couple of mirrorless [TS]

  ones I don't know if they have [TS]

  interchangeable lens yet it's hard to [TS]

  keep track honestly because they [TS]

  actually do a fair number of models [TS]

  these days they have some that only [TS]

  shoot in black and white and actually [TS]

  have to play with that one that the [TS]

  black and white only one it was like [TS]

  some kind of like meryl asthenia direct [TS]

  competitor to the Sony rx1 what blew me [TS]

  away about it was compared to at the [TS]

  time my a7 r2 that I had it was way more [TS]

  responsive like you could the viewfinder [TS]

  it was like the difference between like [TS]

  15 frames per second and 60 frames a [TS]

  second like it was like the viewfinder [TS]

  was like just it was like looking [TS]

  through a piece of glass like it was [TS]

  even though it was electronic you know [TS]

  looking through a sensor it was just so [TS]

  such a high refresh rate so should i [TS]

  frame rate was just precise fast you can [TS]

  snap pictures just boom boom boom boom [TS]

  boom it would not slow down it just [TS]

  handled really well it was very [TS]

  satisfying to use and again the tones I [TS]

  that I saw out of that graph this was [TS]

  like literally playing with a friend's [TS]

  camera at a conference for five minutes [TS]

  so I didn't get a lot of use out of it [TS]

  but like it was very compelling and if [TS]

  at the time I had a need for a fixed [TS]

  lens camera that you couldn't change [TS]

  lenses on where I actually wanted that [TS]

  particular lens I would have seriously [TS]

  considered that so yet more qualities [TS]

  that cameras can have that are not about [TS]

  specs and that are hard hard to get in [TS]

  reviews or [TS]

  if you might mention it but you might [TS]

  zoom past it because you think it's BS [TS]

  or or you don't think that's a speck or [TS]

  you don't care but Leica has earned the [TS]

  reputation for good reasons they might [TS]

  not line up with what you want in a [TS]

  camera and they you know it's up to you [TS]

  whether you think it's worth they're [TS]

  quite high prices but there are reasons [TS]

  for it that's interesting [TS]

  I'm surprised you don't have one I mean [TS]

  you don't know that I don't have one no [TS]

  I don't have you also need to call [TS]

  attention to this adorable picture of [TS]

  baby Adam in this post my little thanks [TS]

  for sponsors this week away Linode and [TS]

  ero and we'll talk to you next week now [TS]

  the show is over [TS]

  they didn't even need to begin because [TS]

  it was accidental accidental [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  research Marco and Casey wouldn't let [TS]

  him cuz it was accidentally was [TS]

  accidental and you can find the show [TS]

  notes a day follow them CAS UIL ISS so [TS]

  that's Casey less and a RC own a RM ante [TS]

  Marco Arment are a Syracuse [TS]

  do we have your baby updates it's mostly [TS]

  find actually the thing that's that's I [TS]

  maybe not interesting but the the the [TS]

  thing that we've been fighting with [TS]

  lately is we moved Declan to a toddler [TS]

  bed or whatever you call it so basically [TS]

  instead of being in a full-on crib he's [TS]

  in a bed that he can easily climb out of [TS]

  and has been for a few months now I [TS]

  forget exactly how long but it's been a [TS]

  not insignificant insignificant amount [TS]

  of time but over the last couple of [TS]

  weeks particularly this is this had [TS]

  started before Michaela but it's been [TS]

  particularly egregious the last vault a [TS]

  few days most especially but egregious [TS]

  in general in the last few weeks he'll [TS]

  get out of his bed and tell us like come [TS]

  to our room record you know whatever the [TS]

  case may be and tell us I don't like [TS]

  sleep time or I'm hungry or I'm thirsty [TS]

  or my favorite legitimate complaints how [TS]

  are you addressing this I'm hungry in so [TS]

  many in a very very gentle way I'm [TS]

  obviously paraphrasing but I'm hungry [TS]

  tough noogies he should have eaten more [TS]

  before we warned you about this before [TS]

  he came upstairs you're not getting any [TS]

  more food I'm thirsty is here's a little [TS]

  you know cup of water drink it and then [TS]

  you're done and then eventually actually [TS]

  have gotten to the point of leaving him [TS]

  a bottle of water in his room just to [TS]

  get away from the I'm thirsty complaints [TS]

  you know the answer as well you have a [TS]

  bottle of water in your room drink it [TS]

  but my favorite is I don't like rest [TS]

  time in which case it's like well how do [TS]

  you say to a three-year-old tough shit [TS]

  this happens every night like you know [TS]

  there's no reasoning with them do they [TS]

  ever come in and say I missed the love [TS]

  that his baby stole for me no not yet [TS]

  not yet dark because I feel like that's [TS]

  what he's saying maybe maybe it is and [TS]

  I'm trying to stay cool about it [TS]

  couldn't be the universal kid thing of I [TS]

  don't want to go to sleep right now well [TS]

  and that's what that's what I've been [TS]

  attributing it to genuine well you know [TS]

  he's describing this as a change in [TS]

  behavior so I'm saying what's changed [TS]

  recently in declan's life well it's [TS]

  gotten worse since Michaela like you I [TS]

  think you're both right to be honest and [TS]

  I think I personally come down more on [TS]

  marco side but again I think you're both [TS]

  right it started before Michaela but got [TS]

  worse in the last week or two and my [TS]

  favorite is when he comes out of his [TS]

  room Declan why are you out of your room [TS]

  I don't [TS]

  yeah you can tell like even like what [TS]

  Adam does that too sometimes and it's [TS]

  like you can tell like you know what do [TS]

  you need you can tell the gears start [TS]

  turning at that point to come up with [TS]

  something say it's so true I mean so one [TS]

  one issue is is he's still napping right [TS]

  well sort of so right he he has quiet [TS]

  time in his room where he is allowed to [TS]

  like get out of bed and play quietly or [TS]

  whatever and I would say between a third [TS]

  and a half of the days he will actually [TS]

  sleep for that and the other two-thirds [TS]

  we over half to two-thirds he's just [TS]

  sitting there playing in his room or in [TS]

  his bed yeah so what we found and what I [TS]

  think a couple of our friends have also [TS]

  found so it seems to be a thing is you [TS]

  know obviously like when you're [TS]

  transitioning out of nap phase really [TS]

  like yeah yeah yeah you're go to the [TS]

  point where most days he shouldn't be [TS]

  having a nap and what we found is that [TS]

  when we were in that phase the days that [TS]

  he would nap would be the days that he [TS]

  would just be impossible to keep in bed [TS]

  because he just wasn't tired enough like [TS]

  it when you start think about that way [TS]

  it's like well you're the best thing you [TS]

  can do it sounds like you're probably at [TS]

  that phase so just stop napping like me [TS]

  and and do what you can to make it that [TS]

  he does not nap like don't like take a [TS]

  long car drive right in the [TS]

  mid-afternoon interface and even like [TS]

  that like don't like trying to give him [TS]

  a chance to nap try to keep him from [TS]

  doing that by various activity planning [TS]

  or anything because then when bed time [TS]

  rolls around he will be tired enough [TS]

  that he will just go to bed and and not [TS]

  give you as hard of a time about it [TS]

  because he'll just be so tired like [TS]

  that's what we found you have to think [TS]

  about moving his bed time to because [TS]

  like I know like you have a routine [TS]

  you're like great we have a child and [TS]

  the child owes goes to bed at X o'clock [TS]

  that is going to change and it's not [TS]

  going to change like on its own you have [TS]

  to consciously think oh he's not six [TS]

  months anymore now he's three should his [TS]

  bedtime be different right and repeat [TS]

  until they're five and 10 and 13 like [TS]

  you can't as much as I love would love [TS]

  to do i love the naps I love being let's [TS]

  put the kids to bed at 7:30 with that [TS]

  sadly does not last yeah I don't know I [TS]

  mean it's fine and the grand scheme of [TS]

  things things could be so much until [TS]

  until they encroach on every waking hour [TS]

  of your [TS]

  well life's like wait a second if by the [TS]

  time the kids are in bed it's time for [TS]

  me to go to bed when is my time you're [TS]

  like that's right it's gone it's gone [TS]

  isn't it no naps and they go to bed at [TS]

  the same time as you welcome to your [TS]

  future [TS]

  future [TS]

  so anyway so what you ordered Shake [TS]

  Shack I'm still jealous so TIFF and I [TS]

  have you know we go on special occasions [TS]

  on time to the Shake Shack normally our [TS]

  order is a Shack burger each which is [TS]

  the cheeseburger like the basic like one [TS]

  patty cheeseburger [TS]

  which is somewhat small so a Shack [TS]

  burger each we share in order of cheese [TS]

  fries and we share a black-and-white [TS]

  shake solid today we decide because [TS]

  every time when you finish that burger [TS]

  because it's such a good burger but it's [TS]

  also a relatively small burger every [TS]

  time you order that you think I wonder [TS]

  if I could have gotten away with a [TS]

  second burger so today we decided to [TS]

  splurge being that his Valentine's Day [TS]

  this was our special trip to the city [TS]

  just to eat Shake Shack and we got three [TS]

  burgers and we cut the third one in half [TS]

  so we each had 1.5 burgers that is [TS]

  actually a very good choice yeah and it [TS]

  turned out we were pretty full but it [TS]

  was not like a mistake well you really [TS]

  you really uh you know stress yourself [TS]

  out a little bit with all the top four [TS]

  episodes now you're able to handle that [TS]

  much exactly there is the no Shake Shack [TS]

  anywhere near me I think the nearest one [TS]

  is in DC which is like a two-hour drive [TS]

  and it makes me so sad because you know [TS]

  as with what is it in and out like in [TS]

  and out I think is very tasty but a [TS]

  little bit overrated and I think with [TS]

  Shake Shack I would say it's less [TS]

  overrated but but what I'm driving at is [TS]

  that some of the appeal is that it is [TS]

  not approximate is that'll work the word [TS]

  I'm looking for it's not near me and so [TS]

  because it's not near me I seek it and [TS]

  yearn for it in a way that I very much [TS]

  do for in and out even though I would [TS]

  say like you know in and out is good [TS]

  where Shake Shack is great I'm surprised [TS]

  you asked mark or what he got at Shake [TS]

  Shack [TS]

  there's like nothing on that menu they [TS]

  expanded it quite a bit over the last [TS]

  couple years like there's like as [TS]

  they've expanded what well there's [TS]

  there's like burgers there's chicken [TS]

  sandwich now there's oh there's always [TS]

  the mushroom vegetarian sandwich I think [TS]

  there's a treatment option now there's [TS]

  hot dogs that there's a lot like there's [TS]

  no about the hotdog they've got like two [TS]

  kinds of burgers a hot dog a bunch of [TS]

  different kinds of shakes and fries that [TS]

  are not [TS]

  good and the mushroom burger don't [TS]

  forget that I said a bunch of different [TS]

  kinds of burgers I get the Shack burger [TS]

  to this it's like that's you know I [TS]

  don't variety we're just fine [TS]

  I like the burger it's a good burger but [TS]

  uh it has better fries I don't think [TS]

  I've had it and out before I have had [TS]

  five guys there's those around here and [TS]

  I find them incredibly disappointing I [TS]

  don't I don't think five guys is even in [TS]

  the same league like to me five guys I'd [TS]

  rather just have like McDonald's or [TS]

  Burger King or Wendy's like it's it's in [TS]

  that it's at that little way you're [TS]

  insane Five Guys is so much better than [TS]

  McDonald's burger right so hold on so [TS]

  five guys if I'm not mistaken started [TS]

  either in Virginia in the DC suburbs or [TS]

  in DC proper and so I feel some amount [TS]

  of need to defend Five Guys five guys to [TS]

  me is the kind of burger you have once a [TS]

  year because it is this is here's a [TS]

  Simpsons reference for you jobs it takes [TS]

  you a year to forget how bad it is and [TS]

  how worth it it isn't and Shake Shack is [TS]

  better but five guys I think is pretty [TS]

  good so here's the thing with five guys [TS]

  though is that it's so unbelievably and [TS]

  unabashedly greasy not to say it's not [TS]

  tasty but it's so greasy I don't think [TS]

  so I think I think Shake Shack is grease [TS]

  easier than five guys let's see I [TS]

  haven't had five guys in a while so [TS]

  maybe right but the point I'm driving at [TS]

  it's like dr. Nick when he was telling [TS]

  Homer how to get fat and he just like [TS]

  held up a piece of chicken or something [TS]

  like that to the wall or to a piece of [TS]

  paper or something I don't remember the [TS]

  exact reference but you know basically [TS]

  says hey if it's see-through then you [TS]

  can eat it and that's how you gonna get [TS]

  really fat I feel like that's I feel [TS]

  like that's five guys yeah and so I feel [TS]

  it even if I only have like my typical [TS]

  order is a little bacon cheeseburger and [TS]

  I say that as I go off and I go again [TS]

  like once a year but I feel like after I [TS]

  have my little bacon cheeseburger and [TS]

  fries I feel like a beach I love that [TS]

  it's called a little burger - dude like [TS]

  I love it like they make you like trying [TS]

  to shame you into not overeating it's [TS]

  like they make you say the indignity of [TS]

  like can I have the little burger please [TS]

  like its shape check if you say The [TS]

  Shack burger the Shack burger is [TS]

  available in single or double patty but [TS]

  the default is single which is probably [TS]

  what you should get like you don't have [TS]

  to say can I please have the smallest [TS]

  burger you have even though that's what [TS]

  it is [TS]

  yeah so anyway so the point of driving [TS]

  out is after I eat one I or after I eat [TS]

  at five guys I need like six months to a [TS]

  year to recover because I feel like a [TS]

  beached whale and [TS]

  you gotta you gotta train yourself up [TS]

  because we get five guys here all the [TS]

  time I mean shit we have Shake Shack and [TS]

  five guys both close to us so we get [TS]

  them both plenty and yeah I think what [TS]

  you're thinking with the grease bomb is [TS]

  Five Guys fries they're just grease [TS]

  bombs and are varying quality and they [TS]

  give you like that's the thing about [TS]

  five guys they give you [TS]

  I think it's must be in their manual [TS]

  when somebody artist fries fill up [TS]

  whatever cup size they told you to it [TS]

  does more but also dump a whole bunch [TS]

  more which is fine like as far like [TS]

  place it in a bag and then pour more [TS]

  fries on top of it such that the entire [TS]

  bottom of the bag so your cup of fries [TS]

  is padded from damage by other fries and [TS]

  I think that's a good corporate policy [TS]

  because potatoes are cheap right and [TS]

  they've got them stacked up in the thing [TS]

  there and they give you more than you [TS]

  could ever possibly want some people [TS]

  feel like that's generous especially for [TS]

  the ridiculous prices everybody charges [TS]

  for these rehearse right for you know it [TS]

  seems like five guys fans rave about [TS]

  their fries a lot honestly I find them [TS]

  absolutely nothing special and maybe [TS]

  maybe this is just because the five guys [TS]

  nearest to us might may be just a [TS]

  terrible location like maybe it's just a [TS]

  bad five guys but again one area where I [TS]

  think Shake Shack has done very well is [TS]

  it so far I've eaten that probably five [TS]

  or six distinct Shake Shack locations [TS]

  and they are remarkably consistent they [TS]

  are all that they've all been [TS]

  consistently good for me everything [TS]

  tastes like exactly the same what are [TS]

  you what are your uh Shake Shack fries [TS]

  what what kind of that because they've [TS]

  changed them and it might be location [TS]

  specific we have what used I guess what [TS]

  used to be the only kind which is they [TS]

  almost look like frozen crinkle-cut [TS]

  fries yep all right that's what we have [TS]

  to but they they went to shoestring for [TS]

  a while near us and it was grim no [TS]

  that's that's bad that's bad it can be [TS]

  good but their's weren't those we're not [TS]

  good so they changed back but but I [TS]

  think the griot fries are not [TS]

  particularly good oh I think they're [TS]

  wonderful to me like Shake Shack fries [TS]

  they taste like like frozen fries from [TS]

  your childhood except done really well [TS]

  and also I don't find them greasy really [TS]

  at all like you know beyond what you [TS]

  know the minimum required to deep-fry [TS]

  something but like you know where Five [TS]

  Guys fries I feel like could make a [TS]

  piece of paper clear by just going near [TS]

  that piece of paper I Shake Shack fries [TS]

  really don't seem greasy at least five [TS]

  guys has the Cajun option if you get [TS]

  sick of the regular fries [TS]

  yeah but Shake Shack fries are so good [TS]

  you don't get sick of them you [TS]

  put cheese on top of them and the cheese [TS]

  fries are really good no the cheese is [TS]

  gross it's like Cheez Whiz like it's [TS]

  Casey's Velveeta it's nope it's kind of [TS]

  it's it's like it's lighter in color [TS]

  than like a slice of American cheese or [TS]

  like most nacho cheese sauce I don't use [TS]

  food it's definitely some kind of you [TS]

  know well it is because it melts very [TS]

  well but it's it's a really nice like [TS]

  somewhat mild cheese sauce these [TS]

  distributions always really nice and [TS]

  they give you that little wooden stick [TS]

  to pick up the fries with it's so good [TS]

  i'm with marco in this however i do need [TS]

  to also bring up for those of us who are [TS]

  from mr. Velveeta was the fake cheese [TS]

  surprise surprise I also need to bring [TS]

  up for those of you who live south of [TS]

  the mason-dixon specifically in or [TS]

  around North Carolina there's a chain [TS]

  called cookout wherein you can get a [TS]

  truly heinous amount of food for a [TS]

  hilariously small amount of money and if [TS]

  you've never experienced cookout but [TS]

  have the opportunity you need to try it [TS]

  and cook out their burgers taste [TS]

  guess what like you had just cooked them [TS]

  at a cookout or as some people is it [TS]

  where is it that they call any sort of [TS]

  like picnicky cookout thing of barbecue [TS]

  which is completely bananas is that the [TS]

  northeast of the whole country except [TS]

  for the south BBQ is its own thing [TS]

  anyway honestly I gotta say I don't like [TS]

  I don't and I'm using the lowercase [TS]

  version of the cookout word here I don't [TS]

  like cookout burgers most of the time [TS]

  burgers I in my opinion are best made on [TS]

  a flat griddle surface whereas when you [TS]

  put it on like that the rack of a grill [TS]

  especially the way most people you know [TS]

  most most people or just amateur you [TS]

  know barbecue cooks or grill cooks [TS]

  whatever whatever word you use for the [TS]

  that large metal box that you would put [TS]

  hamburgers and hot dogs in for me my [TS]

  move is always to go for the hot dogs [TS]

  because first of all it they're they're [TS]

  less filling usually so like you can [TS]

  have just one or you can have two [TS]

  depending on how hungry you are you get [TS]

  a more room for the side dishes which [TS]

  are always better or one and a half if [TS]

  you're yeah it's and and hot dogs are [TS]

  pretty much impossible to screw up that [TS]

  badly [TS]

  whereas burgers on people's grills are [TS]

  always usually they're way overdone [TS]

  they're also usually way underseasoned [TS]

  and a hot dog you put it on the grill [TS]

  it's already cooked you just need to [TS]

  make it warm [TS]

  and maybe you get a little bit of like a [TS]

  split on the skin like a little bit of [TS]

  the bubbly nice on the skin from the [TS]

  heat and that's it you put it in a bun [TS]

  you put anything or nothing on it and [TS]

  it's delicious [TS]

  it totally takes the the barbecue cook [TS]

  out of the equation unless they like [TS]

  seriously horribly burn it but that's [TS]

  pretty rare and pretty hard to do all [TS]

  I'm saying is if you're ever in a [TS]

  position where you can go visit a [TS]

  cookout get yourself a cookout tray I [TS]

  mean you can can they consider a full [TS]

  quesadilla as a side item that's what [TS]

  you need to know that's all you need to [TS]

  know the whole Faye my whole family can [TS]

  eat there for like under 15 bucks it's [TS]

  ridiculous I love cookout [TS]

  god I love cookout anyway we should [TS]

  probably start the show lest I talk [TS]

  about food for the entire night you want [TS]

  to talk politics we can do that for a [TS]

  little while because I'm really fired up [TS]

  I mean act now that we talked like fancy [TS]

  people's burger chains [TS]

  I feel like politics is a much safer [TS]

  choice yeah probably [TS]

  can we just ban all guns let's just do [TS]

  that can we all agree on that good I'm [TS]

  glad we talked all right let's start [TS]

  with some follow-up and I don't want to [TS]

  talk about any of this battery stuff [TS]

  anymore so one of you do it I don't want [TS]

  to either why are we still doing this I [TS]

  don't know I'm talking about it we're [TS]

  just I just wanted to give some we're [TS]

  still getting feedback about it that [TS]

  much is certain I'm talking about it [TS]

  here let's talk about people can you [TS]

  send us stuff and I just wanted to give [TS]

  some representative samples from real [TS]

  life listeners covering the spectrum of [TS]

  the type of feedback we're getting but [TS]

  did I just hear a beer cracker Marco I [TS]

  love you so much [TS]

  I've never loved you more than I love [TS]

  you right now sorry what were you saying [TS]

  John I'm saying I didn't practice how to [TS]

  pronounce these people's names because I [TS]

  don't think I'd be doing it sound you [TS]

  don't have to do it we can skip doing it [TS]

  just gonna go with bigger ditch I need [TS]

  more beers to open oh my god that's [TS]

  close you gotta try so we have some [TS]

  follow-up about my task managers it's [TS]

  just you just gotta read them that's all [TS]

  we have to do it's not complicated [TS]

  there's no discussion required you just [TS]

  have to read the feedback oh god why are [TS]

  we so talking about the batteries I [TS]

  don't know we're not talking about it [TS]

  we're reading feedback that's talking [TS]

  three items there there there needs to [TS]

  be no discussion about it we can can we [TS]

  read in our minds and then not talk [TS]

  about [TS]

  here we go here we go I'm over it I'm [TS]

  over here we go here we go this is we're [TS]

  gonna speedrun it one person said done [TS]

  and done so I've really reason I picked [TS]

  these three things as big as the [TS]

  representative of the entire spectrum [TS]

  one person saying my battery's great and [TS]

  I have terrible problems one person [TS]

  saying that you know I had slowdowns I [TS]

  fix it with clean install one person [TS]

  saying I had slowdowns gonna fix it with [TS]

  the battery thing I just want to put [TS]

  that out of it because lots of people [TS]

  think that the various descriptions of [TS]

  things that might happen that we offer [TS]

  on the show are fictional or [TS]

  hypothetical or completely one-sided [TS]

  every possibility is encountered for by [TS]

  people that's we're trying to express in [TS]

  these shows you think you know exactly [TS]

  how everybody is handling it's always [TS]

  throttling it's never throttling and [TS]

  cleanness all always fixes that clean [TS]

  install never fixes that battery always [TS]

  fixes it better than that it's not true [TS]

  we're getting real accounts of all these [TS]

  different occurrences so this is [TS]

  actually a complicated nuanced issue and [TS]

  I'm sorry for all the people who think [TS]

  it is 100 percent whatever their bet [TS]

  theory is I hereby declare this topic [TS]

  done serious permanently done I have to [TS]

  say why you brought it up John but alpha [TS]

  particle in this we're done all right I [TS]

  was talking and I guess it made it in [TS]

  the show I never listen to show after [TS]

  it's released I was talking under the [TS]

  influence of a beverage or two about my [TS]

  my photo management Swift Console app [TS]

  and one of the things I've said is that [TS]

  I wanted to verify that if I find a name [TS]

  collision whether or not those two files [TS]

  are the same file and the reason I made [TS]

  some of the choices I made is because [TS]

  this app was written just for me and in [TS]

  my particular scenario all of the final [TS]

  versions of the files are stored on my [TS]

  Synology I'm a network attached storage [TS]

  and so what I was saying was hey I want [TS]

  to md5 all these files to make sure [TS]

  they're identical or not make decisions [TS]

  based on that and more than a few people [TS]

  wrote in to say usually very very nicely [TS]

  you friggin idiot the first thing you do [TS]

  is check the size of the files and then [TS]

  you worry about md5 in them which was [TS]

  really annoying because I should have [TS]

  thought of that myself and didn't so I [TS]

  didn't mention it because I assumed you [TS]

  were doing that so yes you should feel [TS]

  shame I feel shame and I am admitting it [TS]

  publicly [TS]

  honestly I'm with you Casey I would not [TS]

  have thought of that like yeah just [TS]

  check the file sometime only md5 at the [TS]

  file size as a match I probably wouldn't [TS]

  have thought of that no you totally [TS]

  would have done when you [TS]

  writing the code you feel you're like [TS]

  wait a second why don't you like alright [TS]

  god I feel it's impossible I feel it's [TS]

  impossible to write that code and [TS]

  actually have your fingers tied but [TS]

  without going wait a second well I could [TS]

  tell you it is not impossible because I [TS]

  did it but no all kidding aside it was [TS]

  truly it was an obvious answer that I [TS]

  just really did not think of so I [TS]

  appreciate all of you writing in and I [TS]

  am if I have felt and continue to feel [TS]

  the appropriate amounts of shame now the [TS]

  final follow-up topic everyone in their [TS]

  mother also wrote in to tell Marco that [TS]

  they have the one true task management [TS]

  advice or app or what have you [TS]

  Marco did you try any of them and do you [TS]

  care I tried I think three or four [TS]

  different grocery list apps we had lots [TS]

  of recommendations for these I I didn't [TS]

  try anything to replace things as my [TS]

  main to-do app because I tried enough of [TS]

  those already and honestly trying to do [TS]

  apps giving them like a real shot is so [TS]

  time-consuming and cumbersome that I [TS]

  don't want to try million of them like [TS]

  I'm very happy with things now it's fine [TS]

  so for the grocery list role you know I [TS]

  mentioned that I use clear and I've been [TS]

  using clear for years and it's been fine [TS]

  but I would like something that has Siri [TS]

  integration so I can quickly add to my [TS]

  list so a bunch of people wrote in and [TS]

  suggested a lot of different apps that [TS]

  make grocery lists and do things in a [TS]

  smart way I found all of them to be [TS]

  either hideous-looking [TS]

  and/or too complicated some of them [TS]

  tried to be too smart a lot of them you [TS]

  know I mentioned that one of the reasons [TS]

  I like using clear is it makes it very [TS]

  easy for me to just drag and reorder [TS]

  things to be in the order in which they [TS]

  are in the store because I know my [TS]

  stores really well and and so you know I [TS]

  always arrange things to be in an [TS]

  efficient way many apps try to do that [TS]

  for you automatically through some kind [TS]

  of either by learning the way you order [TS]

  them or by defining sections like okay [TS]

  produce and then cereals and then dairy [TS]

  and you can even some of them are even [TS]

  advanced enough to know that you can [TS]

  read you can you can set like okay this [TS]

  store the aisles are in this order first [TS]

  produce then dairy like it's it's a very [TS]

  these apps have a very very advanced and [TS]

  complicated salu [TS]

  to this problem and I found none of them [TS]

  compelling enough I have already food [TS]

  shopped with I think two or three of [TS]

  them and I found them not compelling [TS]

  either it was cumbersome to use or it [TS]

  was just it took up a lot of space on [TS]

  screen there was they were very [TS]

  cluttered I didn't like the way any of [TS]

  them actually flowed in use ultimately [TS]

  this is a situation where you could make [TS]

  custom apps that try to be smart about [TS]

  grocery shopping that's too much for me [TS]

  I'm fine with clear all I want is Siri [TS]

  entry and maybe sharing for clear that's [TS]

  it a basic list that I can drag to [TS]

  reorder myself I you know all the [TS]

  intelligent stuff it was it's kind of [TS]

  like my nest thermostats like when I [TS]

  first got the nests back forever ago now [TS]

  I very soon afterwards turned off all of [TS]

  their automatic learning features and I [TS]

  instead I just set I set a program on [TS]

  the website like you you can just enter [TS]

  like re go to this temperature at this [TS]

  time go to this temperature at this time [TS]

  and stop guessing what to do [TS]

  I found that I greatly preferred that [TS]

  because the intelligent part of it would [TS]

  often just guess wrong or just get in my [TS]

  way [TS]

  there's a lot of places where this is [TS]

  the case in a lot of different things [TS]

  for a lot of different people this is [TS]

  just one of those problem domains this [TS]

  grocery list thing where for me the [TS]

  simpler option is is not only good [TS]

  enough but better on average like [TS]

  because for all of the gains that I got [TS]

  for the ones that would rearrange [TS]

  themselves intelligently there were just [TS]

  as many times where it guessed wrong and [TS]

  maybe if I use them for longer periods [TS]

  of time they would learn better and and [TS]

  they would get better you know whichever [TS]

  want to use most would like really learn [TS]

  me and my stores but I found the process [TS]

  so cumbersome to use them and so [TS]

  uncompelled I don't want to use them for [TS]

  any longer I like I'm fine just using a [TS]

  very simple list app now which so far is [TS]

  clear and I hope the next version is [TS]

  clear which I here is being worked on I [TS]

  hope it adds stuff like sharing and Siri [TS]

  we are sponsor this week by Linode you [TS]

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  data centers by the end of the second [TS]

  quarter of this year there's all sorts [TS]

  of new stuff happening at little they're [TS]

  also currently in beta they're testing a [TS]

  whole new control panel at cloud [TS] you can see for yourself it's [TS]

  wonderful and honestly I've loved their [TS]

  basic control panel there they're [TS]

  justing 1 for years it's by far my [TS]

  favorite web host to actually use the [TS]

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  yourself if you are in the business of [TS]

  needing a web host for anything I've [TS]

  used a lot of web hosts and Linode is my [TS]

  favorite check it out today [TS]

  slash ATP and use coupon code 8 EP 2018 [TS]

  for a $20 credit once again [TS]

  slash ATP thank you so much to Linode [TS]

  for sponsoring our show today there has [TS]

  been all sorts of drama about how you [TS]

  hold the home pod incorrectly or [TS]

  something well your shelf or table holds [TS]

  the home pasta really well dot all this [TS]

  time who knew that we were supposed to [TS]

  be using coasters under our home pods [TS]

  obviously we are at fault here we should [TS]

  have known that yeah who knew so [TS]

  basically when people place their new [TS]

  home pods which actually quick aside did [TS]

  either of you get a home pod yet because [TS]

  I have not [TS]

  so I'll tell you what oh here we go what [TS]

  else did you do in the city today on [TS]

  Valentine's Day [TS]

  sometimes the UPS man just comes to [TS]

  Marco's house and has things happens yes [TS]

  their connection with Marcos actions not [TS]

  conclusive what you do Marco I don't [TS]

  have a home pod I will - I will say that [TS]

  yes but I did think if I want to try it [TS]

  out there is a I was under the [TS]

  impression under the under the [TS]

  conclusion so far that there really was [TS]

  no place in my house that I could really [TS]

  use one and that actually is not correct [TS]

  next to the echo I have a Sonos play:1 [TS]

  not the new Sonos one that has the the [TS]

  built-in Alexa integration not that but [TS]

  the the old Sonos play:1 that is just [TS]

  the speaker just the sono speaker and I [TS]

  have it there because when you know cut [TS]

  like two years ago now I started trying [TS]

  out so knows to build an overcast [TS]

  integration and and they were kind [TS]

  enough to send me some units to test [TS]

  with and everything and so I have the I [TS]

  have a few of those in the house and I [TS]

  needed a place to put it so I put it [TS]

  next to the echo [TS]

  I hardly ever used the sono stuff and [TS]

  when I do I hardly ever play things out [TS]

  of that output usually it's out of the [TS]

  living room output so I have a you know [TS]

  short squat white speaker that is better [TS]

  for music than assistant type things [TS]

  already sitting next to my echo so I [TS]

  could just remove the Sonos play:1 and [TS]

  put a home pod there and then I can [TS]

  continue using the pair of them the way [TS]

  I have been using the pair of them so [TS]

  far which is I use the Amazon echo for [TS]

  kitchen timers and that kind of personal [TS]

  assistant stuff at the home pod is maybe [TS]

  not so great at and especially timers [TS]

  come on why is that come on and then I [TS]

  could theoretically then use the home [TS]

  pod for music there I haven't done this [TS]

  yet but if I wanted to try one out and [TS]

  eventually you know I hope I hope so [TS]

  much that this summer at everybody see [TS]

  we hear of new sirikit intents that [TS]

  involve audio playback services I really [TS]

  really hope Fame and honestly my hopes [TS]

  are not that like or rather my [TS]

  confidence is not that high I don't [TS]

  think we're gonna actually get that I [TS]

  really hope I'm wrong though I really [TS]

  hope we do if we do then overcast has [TS]

  something to do on the home pod and so [TS]

  I will have to get one for testing so [TS]

  that will be a sensible place to put it [TS]

  but until that happens and unless that [TS]

  happens I'm still not that compelled to [TS]

  try it but if I did put a home pod there [TS]

  that is actually a finished MDF wood [TS]

  piece so I don't think I would create a [TS]

  ring and if I did create a ring it's [TS]

  already white so it wouldn't really be [TS]

  visible so to back up the issue that's [TS]

  that's at hand is that people are [TS]

  starting to notice that when you set [TS]

  your home pod on some kinds of wood or [TS]

  maybe treated wood maybe untreated wood [TS]

  to be honest it doesn't really matter in [TS]

  the grand scheme of things but if you [TS]

  see your home pod on wood it will more [TS]

  likely than not leave a ring from the [TS]

  base of the home pot on the wood so I I [TS]

  don't see how there's really a lot of [TS]

  argument or discussion about this like [TS]

  this seems like it's bogus and it's a [TS]

  poor design and a lot of people are [TS]

  saying no no no no no you should put [TS]

  this on a coaster or a doily or [TS]

  something like that but who's saying [TS]

  that who says that oh you'd be surprised [TS]

  John I'm lucky I must be a good doing a [TS]

  good job of curating my Twitter fall [TS]

  because I have not seen a single person [TS]

  say I I gotta say there's there's a lot [TS]

  of people out there who feel like it's [TS]

  their job to explain Apple to everyone [TS]

  and sometimes this is a wonderful [TS]

  service and sometimes it's just people [TS]

  basically being Apple's PR department [TS]

  for them and I don't think that's [TS]

  healthy for anybody that's not healthy [TS]

  for Apple it's not healthy for people [TS]

  trying to make like you know a writing [TS]

  or blogging or analysis career and it's [TS]

  not health and it isn't healthy for the [TS]

  audience you know in fact I wanted to [TS]

  give a shout out here there's there's a [TS]

  podcast called the menu bar that was [TS]

  that was I think reintroduced it [TS]

  restarted a few weeks ago spoiler I'm [TS]

  gonna be the guest on it next week and [TS]

  so this is partially you know some [TS]

  promotional but I suggest you listen to [TS]

  the menu bar eat it is a very very very [TS]

  good angle of Apple critique and not [TS]

  just Apple it actually is a critique of [TS]

  the entire tech industry there's a [TS]

  really like a fresh take of Apple [TS]

  critique on the menu bar that I [TS]

  is worth hearing and because it isn't [TS]

  just like oh the keyboard sucks oh you [TS]

  know the home pod blah it's not that [TS]

  it's not the kind of stuff like if [TS]

  you're tired of me criticizing Apple [TS]

  it's not that like this the way I do it [TS]

  like they do it in a much better way and [TS]

  a much more interesting and constructive [TS]

  and and thoughtful way so I strongly [TS]

  suggest checking out the menu bar [TS]

  podcast I'll put a link in the show [TS]

  notes and I'll have it appear here in [TS]

  the chapter are basically the reason [TS]

  that I brought up is the one of the [TS]

  things they said in a couple of the [TS]

  episodes now is that they don't feel [TS]

  like they need to basically like be [TS]

  Apple's PR department you know for them [TS]

  anytime Apple does anything wrong [TS]

  fans and sometimes writers and mostly [TS]

  honestly just fans a certain subset just [TS]

  thinks it's their job to jump out there [TS]

  and defend Apple in ways that Apple [TS]

  doesn't need to be defended [TS]

  like if the home pod has this problem [TS]

  which it certainly appears that it does [TS]

  this is absolutely the like it's a flaw [TS]

  it's simple as that like it's not gonna [TS]

  like end the world it's not gonna make [TS]

  the home pod a flop it's not gonna cause [TS]

  some kind of massive recall or anything [TS]

  it's an embarrassing flaw we heard for [TS]

  months that the home pod Hardware has [TS]

  been done for like a long time and they [TS]

  were just waiting on the software the [TS]

  hardware is done it's awesome it's [TS]

  perfect and then there's a hardware [TS]

  problem there's an actual hardware flaw [TS]

  that shipped and and not a not a small [TS]

  one it just seems like it's just yet yet [TS]

  another thing about this product launch [TS]

  that's just sloppy and rushed and [TS]

  apparently the hardware wasn't done well [TS]

  enough or they found this problem and [TS]

  decided it wouldn't matter and shipped [TS]

  anyway kind of like when they knew that [TS]

  the MacBook keyboards were bad from the [TS]

  first MacBook I decided to bring them [TS]

  across the whole lineup anyway somewhere [TS]

  like things are falling apart in weird [TS]

  ways flaws are getting shipped that [TS]

  should not get shipped that is cause for [TS]

  concern even if this particular flaw you [TS]

  don't think is that bad or doesn't [TS]

  affect you we are seeing a lot of [TS]

  embarrassing flaws that get out the door [TS]

  and it seems like either this product [TS]

  was not tested to the degree that we [TS]

  heard that it was and the hardware was [TS]

  not done [TS]

  as recently or as far back as we heard [TS]

  it was or if any of the employees who [TS]

  had these take home units that we heard [TS]

  about that they were all over campus or [TS]

  you know all over people's houses like [TS]

  certainly somebody must have had this [TS]

  issue and must have reported it and so [TS]

  either they didn't do enough testing or [TS]

  they found this issue and decided not [TS]

  only was it not worth addressing and by [TS]

  changing the the foot of the home pod [TS]

  changing the material or adding some [TS]

  kind of like pad or something you know [TS]

  not only was it not worth addressing in [TS]

  the hardware but it wasn't even worth [TS]

  mentioning anywhere in the manuals and [TS]

  anything like that [TS]

  it's something's wrong there like [TS]

  mistakes are getting out that should not [TS]

  get out that's that I think ultimately [TS]

  big picture not just the home pod ring [TS]

  of death or whatever that is the more [TS]

  concerning thing to me about Apple right [TS]

  now and that when these flaws come out [TS]

  one of the main reactions from people [TS]

  both inside and out is defensiveness not [TS]

  actually going back and getting these [TS]

  problems fixed one interesting theory I [TS]

  heard is that it's not actually a design [TS]

  problem but a manufacturing problem and [TS]

  that some manufacturers responsible for [TS]

  making that smushy little ring cheaped [TS]

  out in a way they thought wouldn't be a [TS]

  parent but ends up being a parent and it [TS]

  could be that all the Apple people who [TS]

  got the take home things got the good [TS]

  properly manufactured rings in the bombs [TS]

  they didn't have this problem but then [TS]

  the mass production ones like you know [TS]

  some supplier cheap doubt nothing that's [TS]

  also that's obviously also apples [TS]

  responsibility but I can think of all [TS]

  sorts of ways how this can get out you [TS]

  know not because Apple didn't test it [TS]

  thoroughly or or didn't pay attention to [TS]

  it but simply because it's it's [TS]

  something that appears for the first [TS]

  time in the mass-produced models the [TS]

  customers get which would be a bummer [TS]

  but it's plausible but happily makes a [TS]

  lot of products that sit on tables and [TS]

  desks why has like why hasn't that [TS]

  happened before I know that made this [TS]

  makes me think like like do you think I [TS]

  think I mean obviously the home cut we [TS]

  expect them to test this right that's [TS]

  what we're getting at it's like you'd [TS]

  like you know this thing is going to be [TS]

  sitting on people's furniture all over [TS]

  the place like it's the whole point of [TS]

  this device right but I think when I saw [TS]

  this I think about do you like Apple [TS]

  tests whether the feet [TS]

  on my Mac Pro markup furniture I mean I [TS]

  guess they don't because there's not a [TS]

  much expectation that the Mac Pro my [TS]

  cheese grater is going to be all over [TS]

  the house and all sorts of different [TS]

  kinds of furniture it's basically gonna [TS]

  be on desks or underneath desks do you [TS]

  think they test with a little rubber [TS]

  feet on the bottom of iMacs markup [TS]

  things that they're put on I'm also [TS]

  going to guess that they don't like not [TS]

  that they don't test that at all [TS]

  materials but they don't basically don't [TS]

  test it at all because I don't know it [TS]

  just doesn't seem like it because it's [TS]

  not a product like the home pod where [TS]

  they show it literally unlike here we're [TS]

  gonna put it on your you know end table [TS]

  or on your whatever right so that's why [TS]

  I think it is it's much more relevant to [TS]

  the home pot but it does make me realize [TS]

  that this blind spot in and you know [TS]

  probably extends to a lot of their [TS]

  products like for everything from from [TS]

  the plastic that they make their cords [TS]

  out of to all the different feet on [TS]

  probably the feet on laptops they do [TS]

  test in the same way that they that you [TS]

  expect them to taste the home pot but I [TS]

  bet they don't test it on Macs right I [TS]

  mean even if you have a wooden desk like [TS]

  I don't know maybe someone should write [TS]

  in and tell us do you have a Mac it sits [TS]

  on a wooden desk and has marred the [TS]

  surface in some way I think it's [TS]

  plausible because I honestly don't see [TS]

  them testing Mac's on a bunch of [TS]

  different desk services whereas the 100% [TS]

  should have and perhaps did test the [TS]

  home pod also two different services [TS]

  it's just weird and here again I think [TS]

  it's a it's an instance of arguably an [TS]

  instance of a little bit better [TS]

  communication up front might've maybe [TS]

  not solve the problem it helped the [TS]

  problem now I still think it's bogus I [TS]

  still think it's bogus that if you sit [TS]

  this thing on on wood without putting [TS]

  something in between it that a twitch [TS]

  that it could screw up the wood like [TS]

  that's messed up full-stop but it [TS]

  certainly would have been nice and [TS]

  somebody else made that and I don't [TS]

  remember who was right well yeah and [TS]

  maybe was him that said oh you know we [TS]

  knew that the jet-black iPhones were [TS]

  gonna scratch we knew it upfront we were [TS]

  okay with it because we knew what we [TS]

  were getting what's the line from it was [TS]

  it was Batman Dark Knight where they say [TS]

  you know if you something along the [TS]

  lines of Joker says you know if you [TS]

  expect something people or totally fine [TS]

  it's when something unexpected happens [TS]

  that they lose their minds and and so [TS]

  you can expect that you're brand new you [TS]

  know eight hundred all our iPhones going [TS]

  to scratch to [TS]

  him come and that's cool because we know [TS]

  what's gonna happen but you know you you [TS]

  don't expect this ring just show up and [TS]

  everyone loses their minds and I would [TS]

  too I'd be upset I don't think it's [TS]

  entirely about expectations though like [TS]

  I understand the communication angle but [TS]

  I think the comparison to the phone just [TS]

  highlights how how different this is [TS]

  right so whether people are aware of it [TS]

  or not the trade-off that Apple is [TS]

  making with the phone that scratches [TS]

  more an apple does advertise this but [TS]

  doesn't connect it up as much is that [TS]

  you know they made softer glass in the [TS]

  hopes that it won't shatter [TS]

  less often right so that's a trade-off [TS]

  that they're making they're like you can [TS]

  make the glass really really hard but [TS]

  then it's more likely to shatter if you [TS]

  make it softer it's more likely to [TS]

  scratch that that's a trade-off that [TS]

  they have made do because they [TS]

  advertised about how much more durable [TS]

  and less likely to shatter the iPhone 10 [TS]

  and isn't they also tell you it will [TS]

  scratch more and they don't connect the [TS]

  two of them for you but I'm pretty sure [TS]

  they're connected right so all right [TS]

  that's you know and then they warn you [TS]

  upfront that's communication right for [TS]

  the ring thing even if they had warned [TS]

  me I'd be like oh thanks for telling me [TS]

  I shouldn't buy this because there is no [TS]

  trade is the sound better because it [TS]

  makes rings on my furniture I don't [TS]

  think it is I don't think there's any [TS]

  connection is it made of a magic [TS]

  material that makes it better than a [TS]

  non-marking rubber I don't think it is [TS]

  right there is no trade-off it's just [TS]

  plain simple something bad about it and [TS]

  you could say if they had warned I would [TS]

  say it's great that I know us know this [TS]

  while I wait for my defective unit to be [TS]

  replaced for free Apple thanks for [TS]

  warning me but I'm not going to take it [TS]

  as oh they warned me and so now I think [TS]

  it's okay it's not okay because as far [TS]

  as I can tell there is no trade off it's [TS]

  not a design decision it is a mistake [TS]

  and it is a mistake that can cause [TS]

  cosmetic damage to things in your house [TS]

  and that I feel like is unacceptable I [TS]

  don't think Apple will recall these [TS]

  because of it but honestly I kind of [TS]

  think they should if they really want to [TS]

  have a reputation as a company that [TS]

  stands behind its products basically [TS]

  they should say we're not gonna recall [TS]

  all of them but if your home pod marks [TS]

  up your furniture send it back to us and [TS]

  we'll send you no more the foot doesn't [TS]

  mark it up that's the right thing to do [TS]

  as far as Apple is concerned as far as [TS]

  I'm concerned for Apple to do or they [TS]

  just keep everybody like a doily or a [TS]

  coaster to put it on a fine Corinthian [TS]

  leather coaster no they don't they mean [TS]

  you need to not have things that mean [TS]

  it's not a glass of it's not a glass of [TS]

  iced water it's gonna sweat and leave a [TS]

  ring like it there's no water it's just [TS]

  it's a it's electronic device [TS]

  it shouldn't leave rings on wood [TS]

  furniture I'm sorry I'm guessing we get [TS]

  no actual response from them on this but [TS]

  who knows I mean well no we did get a [TS]

  response because they put in a new fuse [TS]

  it was typical defensiveness [TS]

  the response was you're holding it wrong [TS]

  cleaning cleaning and taking care of [TS]

  your home pod [TS]

  yeah the response was you should [TS]

  refinish your table yeah where to place [TS]

  your home it's not unusual for any [TS]

  speaker with vibration damage silicone [TS]

  base to leave the mild marks one place [TS]

  them is you think it's not unusual I [TS]

  don't know it seems pretty unusual to me [TS]

  like I I have to think there is a [TS]

  vibration damping material that you can [TS]

  put on the bottom of a speaker that does [TS]

  not mark wood services right I mean lots [TS]

  of you know this one lots of speakers [TS]

  use the really really pointy feet which [TS]

  would leave like actual holes in your [TS]

  things you know but at least that's [TS]

  obvious when you see the really really [TS]

  point it just doesn't seem to me that [TS]

  there that that material is so special [TS]

  that there is no replacement that would [TS]

  it would you know it would it would [TS]

  impair that speaker's sound quality if [TS]

  they used a different kind of rubber I [TS]

  don't see that and honestly I think the [TS]

  PR response to this is poor well in [TS]

  their defense as we record there's been [TS]

  like an afternoon and evening worth of [TS]

  time for their to have a response [TS]

  because this just broke earlier today [TS]

  did it not yes okay so I mean let's give [TS]

  them a little slack there may be some [TS]

  sort of response cop yeah now we don't [TS]

  we don't know what their reaction is [TS]

  gonna be I'm just saying that the the [TS]

  reaction thus far seems insufficient to [TS]

  me and there's no again it's not they [TS]

  need to recall them all like defective [TS]

  airbags and cars or something if someone [TS]

  has it and it's sitting on a you know a [TS]

  piece of furniture that it doesn't mark [TS]

  there's no reason to recall that [TS]

  person's thing or whatever but if [TS]

  someone has one of these and it leaves a [TS]

  mark on their furniture they should be [TS]

  able to say Apple take this back and [TS]

  give them our money back or which they [TS]

  can do if they're inside the return [TS]

  window or Apple take this back and give [TS]

  me one that doesn't leave a ring and [TS]

  Apple should do that I'm not even going [TS]

  so far as to say all Apple has to pay [TS]

  for the damages to your furniture which [TS]

  would also be nice but is a little bit [TS]

  unfeasible in terms of logistics but no [TS]

  it's it they it's a mistake I'm you know [TS]

  it's probably an honest mistake I can [TS]

  imagine how this slipped through but [TS]

  it's not acceptable there is no this is [TS]

  not a design trade-off like phone [TS]

  screens that scratch a little easier in [TS]

  exchange for not shattering as much [TS]

  would you guys do you have any thoughts [TS]

  on [TS]

  tear downs those were done between last [TS]

  episode and this one so we didn't talk [TS]

  about a lot I don't think I was [TS]

  surprised by what was in there right [TS]

  it's kind of it's very interesting to me [TS]

  like to see a lot of a lot of a way [TS]

  that's the way that it's structured and [TS]

  built I think one of the one of the [TS]

  weird surprises for me is how none of [TS]

  the speakers fire outwards [TS]

  like the woofer fires up and the tweeter [TS]

  is fired down like the whole middle of [TS]

  it you know it's covered in cloth so you [TS]

  kind of get the feeling it's like one [TS]

  big speaker but in fact the speakers are [TS]

  firing out of the top and bottom out of [TS]

  little vents and there's nothing firing [TS]

  out the sides the sides are just solid I [TS]

  thought we had seen some sort of [TS]

  indication like during WDC of what this [TS]

  looked like inside at least [TS]

  approximately so I'm not I'm not too [TS]

  terribly surprised by that but I to be [TS]

  honest I did not get a chance like the [TS]

  teardown so I don't really know what I'm [TS]

  talking about [TS]

  Oh also while we're on the subject of [TS]

  tear downs gotta also give massive shout [TS]

  out to the season finale of this season [TS]

  of welcome to McIntosh the podcast by [TS]

  mark Graham Hill that it was it was an [TS]

  interview about interview with the [TS]

  founder of iFixit who does these [TS]

  wonderful tear downs about repair [TS]

  ability and you know long-term [TS]

  recyclability of our devices it was [TS]

  really good and really makes you think [TS]

  about things like a waste and and the [TS]

  way these products are being built and [TS]

  manufactured and designed and and how [TS]

  that you know there are ways you can [TS]

  design something for repair ability and [TS]

  then later recyclability and there are [TS]

  ways that you can make that harder or [TS]

  impossible and you know Apple seems very [TS]

  split on this issue like there's [TS]

  obviously parts of Apple that care [TS]

  deeply about the environment and about [TS]

  recyclability of things but a lot of [TS]

  their Harvard designs are very hard or [TS]

  impossible to recycle some pretty major [TS]

  parts they don't necessarily need to be [TS]

  done that way so I think it's a very [TS]

  good episode worth a listen and and [TS]

  certainly any thought-provoking we are [TS]

  sponsored this week by a way take us [TS]

  make awesome suitcases [TS]

  visit away travel comm slash ATP and use [TS]

  promo code ATP during checkout for $20 [TS]

  off your awesome suitcase away suitcases [TS]

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  if you finally design this suitcase for [TS]

  the modern age they use high quality [TS]

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  people and sell directly to you so you [TS]

  get a great value and they have [TS]

  wonderful modern amenities so for [TS]

  example they have a built-in compression [TS]

  system so you can really cram a lot in [TS]

  there and have it be nicely packed down [TS]

  to leave more room for even more stuff [TS]

  because everyone needs that at some [TS]

  point they have four spinner wheels on [TS]

  every suitcase that have 360 degree [TS]

  rotation which completely changes the [TS]

  way you can maneuver a suitcase as you [TS]

  go throughout an airport they have a tsa [TS]

  approved combination lock built into the [TS]

  top of the bag they have a removable [TS]

  washable laundry bag so that you don't [TS]

  have to like shove your dirty clothes [TS]

  kind of like off to the side and just [TS]

  hope you don't get confused and you can [TS]

  just take it out when you get home and [TS]

  you can put you can empty you into the [TS]

  into the washer it's wonderful and both [TS]

  sizes are their carry-on bags have a [TS]

  built-in battery that can charge any USB [TS]

  device so as you're sitting there in the [TS]

  airport waiting for your flight you [TS]

  don't have to be draining your phone's [TS]

  battery you can have your phone plugged [TS]

  into your suitcase charging up so that [TS]

  when you get on the plane you got a nice [TS]

  full battery a single charge of the away [TS]

  carry-ons built in battery can charge an [TS]

  iPhone up to five times they also have [TS]

  wonderful new add-ons recently like they [TS]

  have packing cubes they have garment [TS]

  sleeves all these things that you can [TS]

  use to complete your travel kit if [TS]

  you're like a travel pro user you want [TS]

  some of these accessories to really help [TS]

  out a way also offers a lifetime [TS]

  warranty on all their stuff if anything [TS]

  breaks they will fix or replace it for [TS]

  you for life you can even travel with it [TS]

  and try it out for a hundred days and if [TS]

  you don't like it you can return it no [TS]

  questions asked a hundred you can travel [TS]

  with it [TS]

  just if it's not for you they're so [TS]

  confident but they know most people are [TS]

  gonna keep it so if it's not for you you [TS]

  can return it no questions asked [TS]

  it's wonderful check it out today [TS]

  Attaway travel calm slash ATP and use [TS]

  promo code ATP during checkout for $20 [TS]

  off your suitcase thank you so much - [TS]

  away we're sponsoring our show any other [TS]

  home pod thoughts John how do you like [TS]

  yours I was actually thinking of getting [TS]

  along as I thought I have wanted to get [TS]

  one that at a steep discount because [TS]

  like I said I have a place to put it oh [TS]

  my god I want to hear how it sounds but [TS]

  I am NOT [TS]

  able to have not been able to secure one [TS]

  for less than retail price for [TS]

  significantly less than retail price and [TS]

  so I'm still back to well I'm not paying [TS]

  three four dollars for it so I'm still [TS]

  I'm still holding out one thing also you [TS]

  know we've had a lot more impressions [TS]

  and reviews and and like kind of like [TS]

  real real-world test and impression that [TS]

  have come out the opinion and the sound [TS]

  quality is starting to be get a little [TS]

  bit split most people still think it [TS]

  sounds amazing but there are some people [TS]

  who have heard them and come out of it [TS]

  saying I actually don't like the sound [TS]

  and I think it's interesting like it [TS]

  most of the complaints tend to be either [TS]

  the processing is doing something weird [TS]

  with the mid-range that doesn't agree [TS]

  with their music or their tastes or a [TS]

  common complaint is the bass is just too [TS]

  prominent and you know it's it's hard at [TS]

  the home pod because it does room [TS]

  calibration and because it like is [TS]

  listening to the bass response and [TS]

  dynamically adjusting it and things like [TS]

  that and because it does so much [TS]

  processing on the audio to try to [TS]

  separate the components out into and [TS]

  into different positions in the room and [TS]

  everything because it's so complex like [TS]

  that it's really hard to get an idea of [TS]

  what it sounds like [TS]

  because it could sound like lots of [TS]

  different things and and it whether the [TS]

  sound works for you can be highly [TS]

  dependent on what the home pod has [TS]

  calibrated to for your room and also how [TS]

  its processing things like you know [TS]

  centering part of the mid-range that [TS]

  thinks it's vocals and then putting [TS]

  parts of instruments in the background [TS]

  that think those are instruments and [TS]

  whether that works for certain songs or [TS]

  not it's gonna be a really hard thing to [TS]

  get a handle on like whether it works [TS]

  for you or not without actually just [TS]

  trying one because it's going to vary so [TS]

  much and even like trying to test it [TS]

  like there was that reddit post where [TS]

  like the guy you know did allegedly a [TS]

  controlled test although it wasn't that [TS]

  controlled and and you know measuring [TS]

  its frequency response and distortion [TS]

  and things like that but that's really [TS]

  hard to test on the home pod because [TS]

  it's doing so much processing to the [TS]

  sound you really can't get a good handle [TS]

  on what it will always output because [TS]

  there is no one frequency response or [TS]

  one distortion rate that it will always [TS]

  output because it's doing things to the [TS]

  to the input sounds you know based on [TS]

  various intelligence and [TS]

  and heuristics and stuff so it's really [TS]

  hard to get a solid idea on whether it's [TS]

  for you without just listening to it and [TS]

  without trying your music in your house [TS]

  and you're in the room that you want to [TS]

  put it in to see for yourself but I do [TS]

  think that not having any tone controls [TS]

  is probably a mistake because you know [TS]

  the echo doesn't have any tone controls [TS]

  as far as I know but the echo sounds [TS]

  like garbage so it doesn't really matter [TS]

  like no one's seeking good sound quality [TS]

  out of that and Amazon's not selling it [TS]

  as good sound quality so nose has tone [TS]

  controls I think Google who knew who [TS]

  knows who cares [TS]

  but because Apple is positioning this as [TS]

  a really good speaker and also because [TS]

  they're doing so much [TS]

  non-standard processing of the audio I [TS]

  think they need to offer some kind of [TS]

  basic tone control even with as simple [TS]

  as like how much base do you want like [TS]

  that I think might need to be a control [TS]

  because a lot of people have reported [TS]

  that not agreeing with them but it's [TS]

  because it's really hard to design a [TS]

  speaker that appeals to everybody it's [TS]

  even harder when you're doing very heavy [TS]

  and and non-standard things to the audio [TS]

  not just replaying it out of transducer [TS]

  that sounds like a feature and when we [TS]

  talked to this before about how you know [TS]

  yeah the hardware it's just a question [TS]

  of adding software updates to it that [TS]

  sounds like a feature that could come in [TS]

  a fairly soon in a software update and [TS]

  like you said just even just for bass [TS]

  response I'm not even saying they're [TS]

  gonna throw like give you I mean an [TS]

  equaliser because almost every other [TS]

  audio thing that Apple sells weathers I [TS]

  think iPhones have it in the music app [TS]

  don't they will certainly iTunes does [TS]

  has an equalizer it's in the Settings [TS]

  app yeah it but it's only for music [TS]

  played in the music app it doesn't apply [TS]

  system-wide and also it isn't a real [TS]

  equalizer they don't they only have [TS]

  presets they it's like the same like 10 [TS]

  or 15 presets rock and pop and random [TS]

  yeah the same ones that iPods had like [TS]

  10 years ago they have not changed and [TS]

  there is no actual equalizer for you to [TS]

  just like if you want to get in there [TS]

  and define your own thing you can't if [TS]

  you want to like adjust certain [TS]

  frequencies for certain things you can't [TS]

  I get the feeling most people just [TS]

  probably don't use it yeah but anyway [TS]

  iTunes has a full equalizer but they're [TS]

  like the home pod like you said it [TS]

  doesn't need any closet doesn't need [TS]

  presets it just needs [TS]

  one slider for bass and that's it yeah [TS]

  like that would that would go a long way [TS]

  towards making it appeal to a much wider [TS]

  range of people and and and I would say [TS]

  that it's like should go up as well as [TS]

  down because some people want more bass [TS]

  than the home pod puts out right I mean [TS]

  that's why you know Beats headphones are [TS]

  so popular right beyond that I think [TS]

  there is not because of all the dynamic [TS]

  adjustability stuff there's probably not [TS]

  that much more control that you can give [TS]

  people because it's like what are they [TS]

  even controlling are they controlling [TS]

  the final output or they control them [TS]

  like the input before the home pod [TS]

  decides how it's going to interpret that [TS]

  like are they controlling the signal [TS]

  before it goes into the home pods [TS]

  processing or are they just like you [TS]

  know the bass is easy you can just you [TS]

  know lower the output to the one big [TS]

  speaker that you know most of the bass [TS]

  workers are sent to but for everything [TS]

  else I think he gets a little bit tricky [TS]

  agreed and anyway I feels like a [TS]

  no-brainer update to me for a software [TS]

  update their bull they widen the appeal [TS]

  of this device for the what are you [TS]

  talking about the the testing they had [TS]

  that blind test that Pogue did oh yeah [TS]

  that was pretty good too well here's [TS]

  this thing here's the thing about this [TS]

  test like you mentioned I think you [TS]

  don't wear this on Twitter how [TS]

  subjective sound is oh yeah start by - [TS]

  some people like lots of bass some [TS]

  people like not as much some people have [TS]

  certain reactions to certain songs sound [TS]

  certain way and it's it's very [TS]

  subjective and then doing any kind of [TS]

  audio sort of blind testing even though [TS]

  David Polk said he well he said I figure [TS]

  bridge boarding was but he basically [TS]

  said I tried to volume match them by ear [TS]

  like cuz that's it very important about [TS]

  the thing about sound test is one thing [TS]

  we know if you make one speaker selected [TS]

  louder everyone picks it as the best no [TS]

  matter how bad it sounds like well [TS]

  people are very sensitive to volume [TS]

  right so it's important for all the [TS]

  speakers to be the same volume but the [TS]

  way you get them all the same volume is [TS]

  probably not listening to them all and [TS]

  saying yeah I feel like they're about [TS]

  the same volume and furthermore how do [TS]

  you even adjust the volume on a thing [TS]

  that is dynamically changing how it [TS]

  outputs sound based on what it detects [TS]

  about the room like how do you even [TS]

  adjust the home pod volume it's very [TS]

  difficult to do and then finally how [TS]

  many [TS]

  detest it I put it in front of four [TS]

  people that make I guess you get an [TS]

  article out of that you know did you put [TS]

  in front of 400 people like even if you [TS]

  did all you'd be doing is getting a [TS]

  survey of what people think of the home [TS]

  pod that's why I feel like the frequency [TS]

  response things at least it's it gives [TS]

  you a baseline doesn't mean that you [TS]

  know like frequency response like here's [TS]

  here's it ideal here's what it sounds [TS]

  like doesn't mean you're gonna like how [TS]

  it sounds but at least it's something [TS]

  that you can measure so if you know that [TS]

  you like speakers that are dead on for [TS]

  the you know expect to frequency [TS]

  response you will like the home pod if [TS]

  it's close to that and if you don't like [TS]

  speakers that are like that you won't [TS]

  like the home pod so let's someone read [TS]

  something and especially with an [TS]

  auto-fire audiophile probably know am I [TS]

  going to like the sound of the speaker [TS]

  because we've done some objective [TS]

  measurements on the speaker and then you [TS]

  can decide do you like speakers that [TS]

  have measurements like this or do you [TS]

  not like them and again only audio files [TS]

  we know that for everybody else it's [TS]

  just kind of a crapshoot you buy it you [TS]

  put it in your house where you're gonna [TS]

  put it you listen to it and you either [TS]

  like it or you don't and if most people [TS]

  are comparing to the echo I can't [TS]

  imagine anyone not liking it because as [TS]

  you said the echo sounds terrible [TS]

  because that's not what it's supposed to [TS]

  do but for comparing it to Sonos and [TS]

  other things that are high-quality I'm [TS]

  not sure like if someone was asking me [TS]

  for advice [TS]

  should I get a sonĂ­s or a home pod which [TS]

  sounds better I don't think there's any [TS]

  answer I can give them that is the truth [TS]

  it's like they're both good speakers I [TS]

  think you'll have to hear each of them [TS]

  in the environment where it's gonna be [TS]

  and then return the one you don't like [TS]

  which is answer nobody wants to hear but [TS]

  that's just the nature of sound I think [TS]

  oh absolutely I mean this is what I was [TS]

  running on Twitter like first of all [TS]

  nobody can really agree on what is like [TS]

  a good frequency response like a lot of [TS]

  people think oh you want it to be flat [TS]

  you don't and people can't agree on what [TS]

  the curve should be there's a couple of [TS]

  like you know what why they know his [TS]

  standards like there's like a Harman [TS]

  Kardon one that a lot of like the Harman [TS]

  curve that a lot of manufacturers use or [TS]

  set as their goal but like I find the [TS]

  Harman curve fairly boring because it [TS]

  really is weak on the treble side and I [TS]

  like I like some some treble strains and [TS]

  and I found it a little bit withdraws [TS]

  the vocals and I like some vocals and [TS]

  and so everyone has different tastes [TS]

  M an audiophile who used to compare [TS]

  products online by looking at their [TS]

  frequency response progress like I made [TS]

  so many headphone purchases or avoided [TS]

  so many headphones because I looked at [TS]

  their frequency response graph and [TS]

  thought you know what either either oh [TS]

  that looks like something I would like [TS]

  or that looks like another Harman curve [TS]

  headphone and I'm probably wouldn't like [TS]

  that but I have found that frequency [TS]

  response graphs can almost never really [TS]

  provide useful input for whether [TS]

  something will sound appealing to you [TS]

  when you actually have it and it's even [TS]

  more and that's just with headphones [TS]

  headphones are super easy to test and [TS]

  very their their output is very [TS]

  reproducible because you don't really [TS]

  have the room to worry about speakers [TS]

  are a nightmare of inconsistency because [TS]

  they depend so much on the room and the [TS]

  placement of the speaker's and where you [TS]

  are sitting around to the speakers that [TS]

  it's it's almost impossible to have any [TS]

  idea how a speaker will sound and unless [TS]

  you actually put it in the room it's [TS]

  going in and just try it which is really [TS]

  inconvenient speakers because they can [TS]

  be quite large and quite heavy and a lot [TS]

  of times you've got I just have to buy [TS]

  blind and just hope it works out [TS]

  fortunately these are you know this kind [TS]

  of speaker is much smaller and much [TS]

  easier to buy and return if it doesn't [TS]

  work out but all this is to say that you [TS]

  can't look at any measurements or read [TS]

  any reviews or for God's sake watch any [TS]

  videos like a video is completely [TS]

  useless for letting you hear how a [TS]

  speaker will sound like I don't know why [TS]

  people keep doing this because you know [TS]

  going through a different microphone and [TS]

  then out whatever your speakers are it's [TS]

  totally garbage um the only way to [TS]

  really know how it will sound and [TS]

  whether you will like it is to get it in [TS]

  your house and just try it and and the [TS]

  home pod you know it seems like people [TS]

  do generally like it so it seems like [TS]

  you know your chances are good this will [TS]

  probably work out for you if you're [TS]

  interested but none of these tests are [TS]

  particularly useful and no frequency [TS]

  response graph or measurements really [TS]

  are very useful it for this product from [TS]

  so many reasons not not least of which [TS]

  is the massive processing it does but [TS]

  you know also just these graphs aren't [TS]

  useful most of the time anyway for any [TS]

  and to be fair I think the first round [TS]

  of reviews struck the right balance [TS]

  because mostly the things you want to [TS]

  know that are that anyone could tell is [TS]

  like how loud does it get without [TS]

  distorting because we've all had small [TS]

  speakers that strain to be heard when [TS]

  you're far away and if you crank the [TS]

  volume up to max they just start [TS]

  distorting heavily like that's I don't [TS]

  think you need instruments to measure [TS]

  that you can kind of say like you know [TS]

  your your iPhone for example your iPhone [TS]

  at max volume it's not going to fill a [TS]

  room with sound you don't need to any [TS]

  instruments to measure that you can tell [TS]

  and is it faithfully reproduce in the [TS]

  sound or a max volume is somewhat [TS]

  distorted and certain frequencies like [TS]

  you don't need to be an auto file to get [TS]

  us out it's not that's not really what [TS]

  this song sounds like and at max volume [TS]

  it's not particularly loud right so I [TS]

  mean obviously this is an extreme right [TS]

  but anyone home part review said this [TS]

  gets surprisingly loud and even at high [TS]

  volumes it doesn't start fuzzing out and [TS]

  sounding terrible and overall the sound [TS]

  quality is pretty good and that I think [TS]

  is the right balance to strike for this [TS]

  type of review because if you start [TS]

  saying things beyond that like direct [TS]

  comparison with the Sonos play v or play [TS]

  one or anything like that it's just too [TS]

  subjective to say anything definitive [TS]

  about until you start getting out them [TS]

  the instruments and you know and then [TS]

  once you get out the instruments the [TS]

  home pod defies you because you stick an [TS]

  instrument close to it and it thinks [TS]

  it's next to a wall or something and [TS]

  just the sound in a weird way and you [TS]

  have no idea what's going on that was [TS]

  the question with the Sheep they put in [TS]

  front of like to be a blind test was the [TS]

  home pod detecting that the sheet was [TS]

  there even though it's supposed to be [TS]

  acoustically transparent does I think [TS]

  it's a wall it's trying to bounce sound [TS]

  off it and doing something weird who [TS]

  knows we have no visibility into the [TS]

  black box that is there the black [TS]

  cylinder that is the home PI or space [TS]

  gray or white anyway I'm still I'm still [TS]

  interested to try one in my house and [TS]

  see how it sounds but still not [TS]

  interested enough to plunk down 250 [TS]

  bucks that's exactly how I feel and yeah [TS]

  I would I was really hoping that mr. I [TS]

  all I do is spend money would come [TS]

  through for us on this one but I thought [TS]

  about it you've led us down John he's [TS]

  getting there give him a couple more [TS]

  weeks yeah I mean probably but so like [TS]

  if I'm honest with myself yeah probably [TS]

  by next week's show one more thing to [TS]

  consider though is like this is a [TS]

  product that has shipped without some of [TS]

  its major features they just didn't make [TS]

  it [TS]

  you know it if you know definitely [TS]

  obviously it lacks airplay too that's [TS]

  the big one and that also means it lacks [TS]

  multi chant or multi speaker stereo [TS]

  pairing it lacks multi room and also [TS]

  Siri is greatly lacking in a lot of [TS]

  areas some small some pretty big it is I [TS]

  have a feeling this product is going to [TS]

  grow slowly I'm feeling that there's [TS]

  gonna be a lot of people who like are [TS]

  waiting for one of those things to get [TS]

  fixed I would caution people don't buy [TS]

  it today unless you are ok with the [TS]

  features and Siri that it has today and [TS]

  this is not a statement of an apple this [TS]

  is a statement about all tech products [TS]

  never buy tech products based on future [TS]

  software or service promises because so [TS]

  often they either don't deliver or they [TS]

  deliver really late or incomplete or [TS]

  just crappy and so whatever the home pod [TS]

  like if you're on the fence about the [TS]

  home pod is like well this one [TS]

  limitation of Siri you know but they'll [TS]

  fix it in a software update assume they [TS]

  won't assume they never will fix it if [TS]

  you still want it ok it's safe to buy [TS]

  but don't buy it based on the assumption [TS]

  of some future thing that they will [TS]

  change or improve or add until that [TS]

  thing is actually delivered and that's [TS]

  that applies to all tech products yeah [TS]

  how is your full autopilot working out [TS]

  on your car I never bought full [TS]

  autopilot and I I would not recommend [TS]

  anybody by Tesla's full autopilot until [TS]

  it's actually released and demonstrated [TS]

  you can add it later for a small [TS]

  additional charge no we had this [TS]

  conversation privately a few days ago [TS]

  that's exactly why I brought it up yeah [TS]

  I as always i'm waffling on the idea of [TS]

  a home pod in so many ways i like the [TS]

  idea of having a really small but really [TS]

  really good sounding that's you know [TS]

  it's ostensibly speaker but i still have [TS]

  him struggling to find an actual [TS]

  justification for 350 bucks if this was [TS]

  a hundred bucks which I'm not saying [TS]

  it's overpriced necessarily I'm just [TS]

  saying if it was a hundred dollars I [TS]

  think I would have bought it and just [TS]

  said yeah the hell with it I'll give it [TS]

  a shot but a three and fifty dollars [TS]

  that for me anyway is something where I [TS]

  have to weigh the pros and cons and it's [TS]

  just it right now I'm with John it's [TS]

  just not compelling enough for me to [TS]

  spend the money so when I have one [TS]

  week you can all laugh at me and we'll [TS]

  play this we'll play this clip back so [TS]

  what color are you not getting next week [TS]

  oh definitely not definitely not see I [TS]

  would have to not get the white to live [TS]

  next to my echo mm so you would get [TS]

  white and I would get black hmm funny [TS]

  how that is we are sponsored this week [TS]

  by Eero finally Wi-Fi that works visit [TS]

  eurocom and he was code atpa check out [TS]

  for free overnight shipping to the US [TS]

  and canada we've tried for years to [TS]

  cover our entire houses and Wi-Fi [TS]

  without any dead zones or slow areas and [TS]

  it's really hard because when you only [TS]

  have one router there's always just [TS]

  inherently going to be dead zones [TS]

  because of things like walls and real [TS]

  life with ero they solve this problem [TS]

  with by having a distributed Wi-Fi [TS]

  system there's multiple routers that you [TS]

  plug in throughout your house and they [TS]

  they share the connection and you don't [TS]

  even have to hardwire them they [TS]

  wirelessly talk to each other and they [TS]

  blanket your entire home in fast [TS]

  reliable Wi-Fi this is an [TS]

  enterprise-grade system with [TS]

  enterprise-grade functionality and speed [TS]

  and reliability but not enterprise-grade [TS]

  complexity it is super easy to set up [TS]

  the new Eero hardware is also incredibly [TS]

  nice it just looks really nice it's [TS]

  small it's discreet [TS]

  the base station is about the size of an [TS]

  Apple TV or so and it's nice and white [TS]

  and they now have the second-generation [TS]

  hardware it's nice and fast there's [TS]

  triple band radios and all sorts of [TS]

  wonderful new advanced technology and [TS]

  then the kind of accessory satellite [TS]

  base stations they now have these zero [TS]

  beacons this is a also a new [TS]

  second-generation piece of hardware [TS]

  tri-band twice as fast as its [TS]

  predecessor and the beacon is this nice [TS]

  small almost like you know plug in an [TS]

  outlet it just sits flush against the [TS]

  outlet and that is your little Wi-Fi [TS]

  like for Peter four different parts of [TS]

  your house there they're so small you [TS]

  wouldn't even even put you know put them [TS]

  in a hallway you wouldn't even notice [TS]

  them they're wonderful and this blankets [TS]

  your house and fast reliable coverage [TS]

  it's the kind of system that businesses [TS]

  have used for years to cover their whole [TS]

  businesses but that was always too [TS]

  complex for home users [TS]

  Eero has made it super easy and super [TS]

  reliable and quite affordable if I may [TS]

  say the single router system just [TS]

  doesn't work you need a distributed [TS]

  system and Eero is by far the [TS]

  when I've ever seen to set up it's [TS]

  wonderful so check it out today go to [TS]

  ero calm and use promo code ATP at [TS]

  checkout and you will get free overnight [TS]

  shipping to the US or Canada thank you [TS]

  so much to ero for sponsoring our show [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  I've been using Waze for a year and I [TS]

  added it to the topic list a year ago [TS]

  because I wanted to spend five seconds [TS]

  saying you know what I use Waze and it's [TS]

  awesome and John's like oh I have a lot [TS]

  to say about that it has to be a full [TS]

  topic and it's absolute has no topic [TS]

  list and it's been floating on the topic [TS]

  list for a year right at about spot [TS]

  number four and most shows we have three [TS]

  topics so it has never gotten into the [TS]

  make topic list and we've always been [TS]

  like one topic away from covering the [TS]

  Waze topic and I have no idea what John [TS]

  wants to say about it what I want to say [TS]

  about it would you know take maybe five [TS]

  minutes but well let's let's have you do [TS]

  an opening statement then you know let's [TS]

  test that five minute idea look everyone [TS]

  look at the time stamp right now and go [TS]

  so I have used a lot of GPS systems [TS]

  either in cars or as apps on computers [TS]

  first laptops and then phones many of [TS]

  them try to be smart about routing you [TS]

  around traffic or even just the basic [TS]

  routing you know tries to be smart in [TS]

  some degree but many of them try to be [TS]

  smart like when there's traffic when [TS]

  they if they have some kind of an [TS]

  internet connectivity for traffic [TS]

  service like they detect traffic and [TS]

  they try to route you around or they [TS]

  offer you like alternative like hey you [TS]

  can go over here and save ten minutes [TS]

  then you take you off some weirdo like [TS]

  crazy path through residential areas or [TS]

  off a cliff or whatever those I have [TS]

  found have almost no credibility [TS]

  whatsoever [TS]

  almost every time one of the traffic [TS]

  routing apps has suggested a route to me [TS]

  to save time it almost never does save [TS]

  time and it almost always makes me [TS]

  regret having done it because of some [TS]

  weird place it brings me through whether [TS]

  it's like you know really narrow roads [TS]

  or like dirt roads or like going through [TS]

  like you know really like you know bad [TS]

  neighborhoods or residential areas that [TS]

  like it's just really weird to just keep [TS]

  going through a million stop signs in [TS]

  front of people's houses and stuff like [TS]

  that I started going to Long Island a la [TS]

  for the bee [TS]