Cortex 64: 6 Days to Air


00:00:00   so we watched six days to air which is

00:00:03   documentary about how an episode of

00:00:06   South Park is created and the reason

00:00:09   this documentary exists and the reason

00:00:11   it is interesting is that for the last

00:00:14   number of years the team behind South

00:00:17   Park they will come up with an idea for

00:00:20   an episode right the episode animator

00:00:23   and voice actor within six days and then

00:00:26   it is played to the world on Comedy

00:00:28   Central

00:00:29   so that is why this documentary team

00:00:32   decided to come and take a look at what

00:00:34   that process is like because I this has

00:00:38   never been done before this is the only

00:00:39   animation to be done in this way at this

00:00:41   scale for this long so they are wholly

00:00:46   unique and it presents with it a bunch

00:00:49   of very interesting challenges that the

00:00:53   team goes through which is what we want

00:00:55   to look at as a way to kind of do a mini

00:00:57   I guess it's a kind of like a case study

00:00:59   on how people work under pressure I can

00:01:02   hardly think of other jobs that would be

00:01:05   this kind of pressure mm-hmm you know

00:01:08   running through the roster and I'm

00:01:09   thinking uh air traffic controllers I

00:01:12   know that's a lot of that's a lot of

00:01:14   pressure but but producing creating from

00:01:17   nothing and going to a completed show in

00:01:20   the space of a week is insanity and for

00:01:24   comparison they mentioned like The

00:01:25   Simpsons which is the most comparable

00:01:27   animated show to South Park in no small

00:01:30   part because they have both been on the

00:01:31   air forever and we're sort of started

00:01:34   around the same ish era The Simpsons

00:01:37   takes months to produce each episode so

00:01:41   it's not just like oh they're doing it

00:01:43   in six days and other other shows take

00:01:45   two weeks I know it's a it's an it's an

00:01:48   incredible difference between the the

00:01:52   production cycle and other shows the

00:01:54   creators of South Park Matt and Trey you

00:01:57   know they are interesting guys they've

00:01:59   done a lot of different projects over

00:02:01   the years and when I was watching South

00:02:04   Park when I was younger like the show

00:02:07   has been on now for 20 plus years and

00:02:10   I've seen a lot of the first ten

00:02:13   years I haven't seen a lot of it in the

00:02:15   most recent 10 years but when I watched

00:02:18   it back in the sort of pre-internet days

00:02:21   I remember noting how quickly things

00:02:26   that happened in the world were able to

00:02:28   work their way into the show and I

00:02:30   always wondered like how is it that a

00:02:33   show like South Park is able to respond

00:02:36   to things in the world on such a such a

00:02:38   short timeframe whereas everything else

00:02:41   that's created for television it clearly

00:02:44   is created that can have in a void of

00:02:47   timelessness that it could it could

00:02:48   occur at any point I always just found

00:02:50   that notable and weird and it made South

00:02:53   Park feel like a a special different

00:02:56   show that it could react to something

00:02:58   that happened last week and I always

00:02:59   wondered and now I have the answer the

00:03:02   way they were able to do that is with an

00:03:04   insane working schedule that nobody else

00:03:08   in the world would copy so the

00:03:10   documentary begins and when set is March

00:03:13   2011 and for context the show we've been

00:03:17   on a bit of a break a longer break man

00:03:19   had ever taken before because Parker and

00:03:22   stone had just debuted their musical the

00:03:25   Book of Mormon and it was up for a bunch

00:03:28   of Tony Awards and they just kind of got

00:03:30   the first run or the first few shows out

00:03:33   of the way before returning back to

00:03:35   South Park so there had been a

00:03:37   significant period of time where the

00:03:39   show had not been on the air because

00:03:40   without Parker and stone

00:03:42   there is no South Park but they couldn't

00:03:44   make it without them as you kind of come

00:03:45   to learn over the course of the

00:03:47   documentary so they took a break they

00:03:49   took a long break and then they come

00:03:52   back and episode one of this season also

00:03:54   just completely lucky on the documentary

00:03:57   makers parts ends up becoming one of the

00:04:00   most infamous episodes that has ever

00:04:03   been created it was an episode called

00:04:05   humancentipad

00:04:07   we don't need to go into it right like

00:04:10   it is what it is it's one of the most

00:04:12   infamous episodes that they ever made

00:04:13   but it was just interesting to watch how

00:04:16   that all came together over the course

00:04:18   of this week it's an infamous episode

00:04:21   because it is iPads crossed with the

00:04:24   human centipede yes oh yeah

00:04:26   yeah it's very South Park it is the most

00:04:29   South Park it could be but because they

00:04:31   taking this break one of the things that

00:04:34   I was astounded by was how long it took

00:04:36   them to come up with the concept of the

00:04:38   episode it's like one or two days of the

00:04:41   six days they're still working out what

00:04:43   the episodes about and that seems wild

00:04:45   to me right like I assume that as the

00:04:47   seasons go by they have some ideas in

00:04:49   the bank but they started on just like a

00:04:51   completely blank slate trying to work

00:04:54   out how to complete the episode right so

00:04:58   it's like dead nothing can happen so

00:04:59   everybody's kind of is so much hanging

00:05:01   around like the rest of the team are

00:05:03   just waiting like there's times later on

00:05:06   in the episode where individuals are

00:05:09   sleeping in the offices because the

00:05:12   script might come at 3:30 in the morning

00:05:14   and then they can get the work like

00:05:16   there seems to be this just really wild

00:05:20   work schedule that everybody goes

00:05:22   through the way the show usually runs is

00:05:25   that they're there they build up some

00:05:28   kind of events that are occurring

00:05:30   throughout the several episodes and so

00:05:33   that there's they end up with ongoing

00:05:35   stories that take place over the course

00:05:36   of the season but because because like

00:05:39   you said they're coming back into work

00:05:41   it's the start of a brand new season

00:05:43   it's also because they've been on such a

00:05:45   big break that I found the same thing

00:05:47   was astounding where it's I think is

00:05:49   sort of like six people in the writers

00:05:51   room you know Matt Matt and Trey are the

00:05:53   two main guys obviously they have the

00:05:54   producer there they have a couple other

00:05:56   writers that they're people who are

00:05:58   there

00:05:58   but the beginning of the documentary is

00:06:00   just all of these shots of them just

00:06:03   sitting there I may stay in a room a lot

00:06:06   of chasing looking up looking up at the

00:06:09   ceiling and they're just they're just

00:06:13   tossing out things that are zeitgeist II

00:06:16   all right so they're like uh there's

00:06:18   been a lot of there's been a lot of news

00:06:20   about that tsunami that occurred our

00:06:22   tsunamis funny alright they're looking

00:06:23   around trying to think of tsunamis are

00:06:24   funny and it I agree with you when you

00:06:27   see that the premise of the documentary

00:06:28   is okay it takes six days to make an

00:06:30   episode of South Park and you realize

00:06:33   that close to a third of that time at

00:06:36   least on the first episode

00:06:38   is just sitting around trying to think

00:06:42   up what the show is going to be it makes

00:06:44   it even more astounding and it's it

00:06:46   really it's like the production is a lot

00:06:49   closer to four days to air and and we we

00:06:53   have the actual idea on the morning of

00:06:56   the fourth day that that's what it

00:06:58   that's when it starts to come together

00:06:59   yeah there's a quote from one of the

00:07:01   producers and this is like at the

00:07:03   beginning of the six days there's a show

00:07:05   on Wednesday we don't even know what it

00:07:07   is there is it just an incredible

00:07:12   pressure that goes to it and I mean

00:07:15   there is a part of me that can

00:07:17   sympathize in a very very small way so

00:07:21   you know I produce a number of shows

00:07:23   that are focused around news and

00:07:26   sometimes you get to like two days

00:07:29   before the episode and there's nothing

00:07:32   but the episode is being recorded in two

00:07:35   days so like what do you do and then

00:07:38   there is that this do you come up with

00:07:41   some kind of evergreen topic like

00:07:43   something that isn't news based do you

00:07:45   sit with your fingers crossed hoping

00:07:46   that there will be news like is nowhere

00:07:49   near the scale that this is at because

00:07:51   it's like creating something wholly

00:07:53   larger with many many dependencies but I

00:07:56   can totally understand the feeling of

00:07:58   like it being completely out of our

00:08:01   hands like we don't know what it's gonna

00:08:04   be and eventually there's gonna have to

00:08:06   be an episode but as of right now no one

00:08:10   knows what its gonna look like

00:08:12   yeah and I've there are two moments with

00:08:17   Trey Parker in particular where I felt

00:08:19   like oh dude you have all of my sympathy

00:08:22   in the world but but one of the scenes

00:08:25   is he's trying to work on the script

00:08:27   that's the McDonald's delivery I was

00:08:29   wondering how I I specifically wrote

00:08:32   down to ask you what you thought of Trey

00:08:34   Pacha's script writing process there's a

00:08:37   couple of things in here but it's like

00:08:39   he's getting he's getting what looks

00:08:40   like just the world's worst McDonald's

00:08:43   meal delivered to him they say it makes

00:08:45   me happy for five minutes yeah the

00:08:49   documentary guy asks him about like this

00:08:51   clear

00:08:52   two bags of garbage he's about to pour

00:08:54   into himself and yeah and that's that's

00:08:57   a surprise like oh it makes me happy for

00:08:59   five minutes

00:09:00   and just talking about how at this at

00:09:05   this point it's a little bit after they

00:09:06   have come up with the actual idea but he

00:09:08   still needs to sit down and turn it into

00:09:09   a real script and I have a lot of

00:09:14   sympathy for that behavior of like oh

00:09:16   he's doing something that he knows is

00:09:17   self-destructive but it's bringing him a

00:09:19   little bit of joy in the middle of what

00:09:21   is a miserable process because he

00:09:23   clearly hates the scriptwriting thing

00:09:25   and it's this unlike the writers room

00:09:27   where they're trying to come up with the

00:09:29   ideas and there's people and he's

00:09:30   bouncing stuff off and you can see that

00:09:32   he's much more lively there the script

00:09:34   writing process is like well it's just

00:09:36   Trey Parker sitting in a room with a

00:09:38   computer with no one yeah it was wild to

00:09:42   me that he writes it just him like they

00:09:47   have writers but they're not writers in

00:09:49   this in the sense of you know you know I

00:09:51   don't know what the term is but like

00:09:52   when I think of writers like are there

00:09:54   write in the whole episode doesn't work

00:09:55   like that they're coming up with the

00:09:56   ideas and helping him flesh out some of

00:09:59   the plot points but all of the dialogue

00:10:01   is actually just written by Trey Parker

00:10:04   yeah it's it's it's crazy I mean let

00:10:06   alone the fact that they still to this

00:10:09   day voice the vast majority of the cost

00:10:12   as well yeah yeah I mean there's there's

00:10:14   so much that they do it's it's

00:10:16   unbelievable but the the the reason why

00:10:18   I had this double sympathy for him was

00:10:20   because it's like okay I get that like

00:10:22   you're eating crap because you've just

00:10:24   got a bunch of work to do and like

00:10:25   that's a behavior that I have tried to

00:10:27   breed out of myself over time and I've

00:10:28   gotten way better about it but it's like

00:10:30   when I was faster at producing videos

00:10:33   it's like my health really suffered and

00:10:34   it was like oh yeah this looks familiar

00:10:36   I know this like yeah you happy for a

00:10:38   minute but the other thing that to me is

00:10:42   again in the smallest way but is also

00:10:45   now much more my world than it was years

00:10:48   ago is okay the one the one thing is no

00:10:50   more but the new thing is where he talks

00:10:53   about how he's sitting there writing the

00:10:54   script and he just knows that the

00:10:58   entirety of the staff of the production

00:11:01   of South Park is waiting on him to

00:11:03   finish this thing

00:11:05   and he knows that

00:11:08   how late of a night he's going to force

00:11:11   on everybody who works on the show is

00:11:13   entirely down to his ability to sit in

00:11:16   this room and and write the script and

00:11:19   just the the the pressure of that you

00:11:24   know I I have things where's like oh I

00:11:26   know people are waiting on me and it's

00:11:28   like I hate that I hate being the

00:11:30   bottleneck it makes me really unhappy

00:11:32   and and him talking about like this

00:11:34   entire team of animators and everybody

00:11:38   else is just waiting for him to finish

00:11:40   it I thought I can't I cannot believe

00:11:44   that the two of them have done this for

00:11:47   as long as they have and that they're

00:11:49   and that they're alive that this that

00:11:51   this has not killed them the production

00:11:54   of this show because the the final

00:11:55   scenes for this episode are delivered to

00:11:59   the animators 24 hours before they air

00:12:03   and this is not there's no dialogue so

00:12:06   still what record the dialogue where you

00:12:07   deliver the scenes I start animation go

00:12:09   cord the dialogue good a match all the

00:12:10   dialogue gonna put the whole thing

00:12:11   together 24 hours like I love this this

00:12:15   one moment like the 36 hour mark where

00:12:19   this is the first time this has happened

00:12:20   the producers are looking for Trey

00:12:24   Parker they're like walking around the

00:12:27   studio like where's Trey like they're

00:12:30   trying to find him because they know

00:12:33   just how horrific Lee late they are at

00:12:36   this point because like it seemed like

00:12:37   this one as being the first episode was

00:12:40   particularly bad right like then they

00:12:42   pushed it on particularly like late in

00:12:45   the whole process and like another thing

00:12:47   that I thought that you I want to see

00:12:49   what you thought was when he's talking

00:12:51   about the script and he still got like

00:12:53   five scenes to go or whatever and he's

00:12:55   like I have to cut so much of this mm-hm

00:12:58   like he's like I've not finished but I

00:13:01   know what I have here is a 40 page

00:13:03   script which is like a 40-minute episode

00:13:05   and we have to deliver a 25-minute

00:13:07   episode and he's just like I have to

00:13:10   take it all out and it's gonna suck and

00:13:12   it is really interesting to watch as the

00:13:14   week goes on to watch Trey's confidence

00:13:17   start to fall

00:13:18   mmm-hmm like by the end he's just like

00:13:21   this is the worst episode we've ever

00:13:22   done I'm like in he's being legit right

00:13:26   like he it doesn't seem like he's joking

00:13:28   now that's I mean but this is this is

00:13:31   sort of legendary that the two of them

00:13:33   but particularly Trey Parker always feel

00:13:34   this way that's like oh this episode is

00:13:36   terrible but I think it's also just like

00:13:38   you've been so intensely involved in the

00:13:40   thing in such a short period of time

00:13:41   that all you can see are the gazillions

00:13:43   of its flaws and I think this is pretty

00:13:47   famously there's an episode of South

00:13:49   Park that they did which is a crossover

00:13:52   with World of Warcraft that was actually

00:13:55   produced with the very people who

00:13:57   animate that game and my understanding

00:14:00   of it is that they thought that that

00:14:02   episode was so terrible they came as

00:14:05   close as they've ever come to actually

00:14:07   pulling it to saying like we're not

00:14:09   going to air it at the last minute and

00:14:10   like we'll just have to run a like a

00:14:12   rerun in the in the space and of course

00:14:14   like that went on to be one of the most

00:14:16   famous and acclaimed episodes that

00:14:19   they've ever done is that episode but

00:14:21   it's it's like you can see he is crushed

00:14:24   every time at the end of these episodes

00:14:27   but the thing that kills me here is this

00:14:30   is just the start of the season I feel

00:14:32   like I have I have watched two men live

00:14:36   a year's worth of life in six days and

00:14:39   it's not like oh it's over go take a

00:14:42   break guys enjoy the weekend is another

00:14:44   the next episode is starting up right

00:14:46   now they get one day right which I

00:14:50   assume is not a day off yeah not in any

00:14:53   not in any normal sense yeah but the the

00:14:56   other part where I just had such

00:14:58   sympathy is when they're still in the

00:15:00   coming up with the ideas phase in that

00:15:03   in the first two days where they really

00:15:04   just don't have anything and Trey

00:15:08   mentions how he's like oh I'm gonna try

00:15:10   to get away and just not think about

00:15:11   this for a little bit so he goes home

00:15:12   and turns on his xbox to just turn off

00:15:16   his mind for a little bit but the ad on

00:15:18   the Xbox is South Park coming this

00:15:20   Wednesday right at this point it's

00:15:24   Friday and he's like that was I love

00:15:28   that it's like that's so just so cruel

00:15:31   right like he escaped because everything

00:15:35   cuz it's at the point it's at the size

00:15:37   that it is that by this point it's

00:15:39   everywhere right like and there's just

00:15:41   if no escape from it oh yeah yeah and as

00:15:44   mentioned I think this documentary

00:15:45   happened at the exact magical right time

00:15:47   yeah because there was probably no

00:15:50   season of South Park promoted more than

00:15:52   that one

00:15:53   the we're returning after a break and

00:15:56   also the episode where they've just

00:15:59   produced this incredible musical that

00:16:02   has received all this wide acclaim

00:16:03   so that everywhere at this point because

00:16:05   the book exactly you know it's wet you

00:16:07   know it had like every Tony nomination

00:16:09   which also happened in that week they

00:16:11   got a time Tony nominations right like

00:16:14   because the Book of Mormon was was huge

00:16:17   it was huge right and so there's so much

00:16:20   pressure on them they probably got more

00:16:23   people that were wanting to see South

00:16:25   Park then they have had in a while

00:16:27   because they're not they're like hot and

00:16:29   in the news again you know I can't even

00:16:32   I can't even imagine

00:16:33   I just can't yeah yeah but it is like

00:16:35   the universe is so cruel like this poor

00:16:37   guy is just trying to turn off his brain

00:16:39   for a little bit and his lifestyle for

00:16:40   coming this day like I just can't

00:16:43   imagine what that feels like to be

00:16:44   sitting there thinking like oh there's

00:16:46   Wednesday I guess I need to come up with

00:16:48   it you know I'm just forgot it's just

00:16:50   awful this episode of cortex is brought

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00:17:24   you'll be looking for excuses to wash

00:17:26   some dishes if you've enjoyed listening

00:17:29   to the working conditions at the South

00:17:32   Park studios then I'm going to recommend

00:17:34   a book I read recently to you which is

00:17:36   called masters of doom how to guys

00:17:39   created an empire and transformed pop

00:17:42   culture by David Kushner I played a lot

00:17:45   of do

00:17:45   when I was a kid but I didn't really

00:17:47   know anything about the development of

00:17:49   it and this book covers how John Carmack

00:17:52   and John romão came together to create a

00:17:55   thing that sucked thousands of hours out

00:17:58   of my childhood it's a very interesting

00:18:00   look at what could be described as a

00:18:03   troubled working environment you can't

00:18:06   make more time but you can make the most

00:18:09   out of it turn your chores into

00:18:11   something more with a free trial at

00:18:13   audible.com slash core-tex to find out

00:18:17   more and start your trial today and

00:18:20   maybe give masters of doom

00:18:22   a listen thank you to audible for

00:18:24   supporting the show the thing about this

00:18:27   documentary that I find so fascinating

00:18:28   is so many people talk about how they

00:18:33   work better under deadlines and you know

00:18:37   personally that is a thing that I have

00:18:38   not found is is true for me I work worse

00:18:40   under deadlines but obviously it does

00:18:43   work for a lot of people and this feels

00:18:47   like the most extreme version of that I

00:18:50   have ever seen that not only do Trey

00:18:55   Parker and Matt Stone work well under

00:18:57   deadlines because they produce these

00:19:00   very popular very funny shows but

00:19:04   they've also created around them an

00:19:07   entire team and production company that

00:19:11   just has to be filled with people who

00:19:13   work well under deadlines it has a quote

00:19:17   from the animation director thing and he

00:19:20   says if it takes you four days to get

00:19:23   something done you can't contribute

00:19:25   right like if you are slow they can't

00:19:29   you can't work there and like they're

00:19:31   saying that in usual animation houses

00:19:33   you have teams of people that do the

00:19:35   specific parts right storyboarding and

00:19:37   then animating and that kind of stuff

00:19:38   but the South Park team everybody does

00:19:43   everything because they just don't have

00:19:46   the affordances of time to have it go

00:19:49   through a slow process you know you get

00:19:50   a scene or whatever that you're working

00:19:52   on and you will do it from scratch you

00:19:55   know and there are things that they have

00:19:57   obviously done over time right

00:19:59   like their process has been optimized

00:20:01   and in an animation style to allow for

00:20:05   them to create something in that amount

00:20:07   of time right like the the the

00:20:09   well-known like what started with

00:20:12   literal pieces of paper cut out and

00:20:14   moved around in stop-motion I have no

00:20:16   doubt that that style of animation helps

00:20:18   them to work a little bit faster oh yeah

00:20:22   oh yeah I mean there was this funny

00:20:24   thing where you know now as an adult who

00:20:28   has a tiny toe in the world of animation

00:20:31   but from my perspective watching this

00:20:33   documentary it's really interesting just

00:20:35   a couple of little offhanded comments

00:20:36   that the animators make I was like oh of

00:20:38   course I can I can see exactly what this

00:20:40   is where yeah that they they talked

00:20:43   about how oh this this style is

00:20:46   intentionally done because you don't

00:20:48   have to actually draw every frame that

00:20:52   in in animation there's this process

00:20:54   where you you can have a static thing

00:20:56   you can draw something and then you can

00:20:59   just specify oh it has to move from here

00:21:02   to here and the computer fills in that

00:21:05   motion in between and as I'm listening

00:21:07   to it like that's what I do like it's

00:21:09   exactly my animation process like I

00:21:11   don't draw every frame so you know every

00:21:14   one of my videos is in a much simpler

00:21:16   way but it's the same thing where I'm

00:21:18   taking objects and specifying key frames

00:21:21   of this needs to move from here to there

00:21:24   in an arc and computer you just draw the

00:21:27   60 frames in between that needs to make

00:21:29   that happen

00:21:30   but but I was also just so aware of that

00:21:33   that you know their comparison to the

00:21:35   Simpsons takes months to produce an

00:21:36   episode it's like well yes but this the

00:21:40   Simpsons

00:21:41   even if they're using computers to help

00:21:43   the the Simpsons is not composed

00:21:46   fundamentally of geometric shapes that

00:21:50   you're sliding around and because of the

00:21:54   way the show is animated

00:21:55   they're able to do this in a way that

00:21:59   you couldn't possibly do with anything

00:22:00   that even looks like hand animation and

00:22:02   then the other thing that I did find

00:22:04   that comment really interesting where

00:22:06   the lead animator says oh yeah we don't

00:22:07   have separate storyboarding and

00:22:09   character design teams everybody just

00:22:12   does everything

00:22:13   and I have having had some peripheral

00:22:16   experience with various teams of various

00:22:18   sizes you know producing things for

00:22:19   YouTube there there really is an

00:22:24   interesting trade-off in size and scope

00:22:30   that when you do have smaller teams of

00:22:35   generalists if you are also able to

00:22:38   limit your scope in the way that South

00:22:41   Park does with what they're trying to do

00:22:42   in animation their animation is quite

00:22:44   limited it's like you can work very

00:22:46   quickly with a bunch of generalists and

00:22:51   then on the other end of that spectrum

00:22:52   you have larger production houses you

00:22:55   know what I would imagine like some

00:22:57   place like Pixar where you might have

00:22:59   three people who their whole specialist

00:23:01   job is what does hair look like when

00:23:03   it's wet you know how do you animate

00:23:05   that and it's like well then then you

00:23:07   can produce something that is incredibly

00:23:09   beautiful that you know a team like the

00:23:12   South Park team could never ever produce

00:23:14   but it's also going to take 20 million

00:23:17   man-hours to to bring into the world and

00:23:22   again I just think like the South Park

00:23:24   guys are so interesting because they've

00:23:27   clearly chosen to be optimized on a

00:23:31   particular end of that spectrum like

00:23:34   they've chosen to keep that animation

00:23:36   style the way it is so that they can

00:23:39   keep themselves under constant deadlines

00:23:41   so that they produce these shows that

00:23:45   are relevant to the world around them as

00:23:48   opposed to all other all other kinds of

00:23:49   TV but you know I have seen and it's

00:23:52   very easy for people to do where you

00:23:54   want to expand the scope of what is

00:23:56   possible and and then you have to keep

00:23:58   adding like what but how long does it

00:24:00   take and and that's the thing that they

00:24:02   they've clearly designed everything to

00:24:05   to stay nice and short and in fact

00:24:08   there's a little part where they talk

00:24:10   about as well about how they've

00:24:11   shortened the process over time

00:24:13   unlike kind of accidentally though right

00:24:15   yeah yeah it was interesting that they

00:24:17   returned with the the production of the

00:24:18   technology that they're like oh we used

00:24:20   to use these incredibly expensive

00:24:21   $30,000 machines

00:24:23   and now it's just an office full of IMAX

00:24:27   that the machines have gotten fast

00:24:29   enough and the animation style has

00:24:31   remained simple enough that that it's

00:24:34   it's pulled down the amount of time even

00:24:38   further and further that they need to

00:24:39   produce one of those shows in terms of

00:24:41   the animation and yeah it is it is crazy

00:24:43   to think that the last 24 hours is when

00:24:45   the vast majority of the animation

00:24:47   actually occurs like it's it's just

00:24:49   insanity

00:24:50   so obviously me and you are very used to

00:24:54   collaborate in all creative endeavors we

00:24:57   work with people to have an output and

00:25:00   that's what's happening with Trey Parker

00:25:02   and Matt Stone they're collaborating and

00:25:04   there's a moment where they sit down

00:25:07   with Matt stone and do kind of a

00:25:09   one-on-one because looking at the show

00:25:11   you know he's obviously important but

00:25:13   doesn't seem to have as many roles in

00:25:15   the production right purely because of

00:25:17   the fact that Parker is writing it and

00:25:20   directing the show he does both and

00:25:22   Parker is also the louder personality

00:25:24   yes so host on camera like Parker takes

00:25:27   up space on the screen right just just

00:25:30   with his physical presence drawers he

00:25:32   draws everything towards him mm-hmm and

00:25:34   they're you know he's kind of met sounds

00:25:36   kind of talking about the fact that they

00:25:37   the way that they work together and they

00:25:39   understand each other and they know

00:25:41   which one is in control in that moment

00:25:44   and that that has enabled them to

00:25:46   continue to work it's understanding the

00:25:48   way that each other works I'm just

00:25:50   playing into that has allowed for their

00:25:52   collaboration to last for 20 years

00:25:54   now I thought that little moment where

00:25:57   they talked to each of them about you

00:25:59   know the roles they play and how the

00:26:00   other fits into this this production I

00:26:03   thought that was really interesting

00:26:04   because I've always thought that there's

00:26:06   this there's this very important meta

00:26:10   skill which is knowing yourself like and

00:26:13   recognizing what you're good at and what

00:26:14   you're not good at that can be developed

00:26:17   and even just in that little section I

00:26:20   thought like man these are two guys who

00:26:21   know really well where their strengths

00:26:25   are and where their own weaknesses are

00:26:26   and and how they work together with each

00:26:28   other and you know it's like it's really

00:26:33   interesting because Matt stone in

00:26:34   particular is talking about a thing

00:26:36   that's really hard to talk about on

00:26:38   on camera where he's saying how Oh when

00:26:41   South Park was becoming popular he was

00:26:43   getting offered all these direct oral

00:26:45   jobs yes and he turns them down and he

00:26:49   turned it's like he turns them down

00:26:51   because he knows that that is not his

00:26:53   skill set

00:26:55   even though to the outsiders it seems

00:26:57   like oh the two of them are making South

00:26:59   Park together and they must be dividing

00:27:00   these things up equally and he

00:27:03   recognizes like he might be able to make

00:27:05   a few movies but ultimately it's not

00:27:07   it's not where he's strong and it just

00:27:10   it wouldn't really go anywhere I thought

00:27:11   like man that is just that is like such

00:27:15   an underappreciated skill in a person to

00:27:18   recognize that what many people would

00:27:22   think of is like oh this is an amazing

00:27:24   opportunity is actually a mistake that

00:27:27   that wouldn't be the thing to do and

00:27:30   that his time and energy are better

00:27:32   spent working with Trey on South Park

00:27:36   you know and it's really interesting

00:27:37   then they then they go talk to Trey like

00:27:39   and there's these situations where like

00:27:41   Trey is the louder personality but he's

00:27:44   not not confrontational in situations

00:27:46   where maybe he would need to be

00:27:48   confrontational like and then that's

00:27:49   where Matt stone steps up and you know I

00:27:52   just like how they both talk about this

00:27:54   this metaphor of like being the members

00:27:56   of the band and it's like yeah there's

00:27:58   there may be one person who looks like

00:27:59   they're more the lead person in the band

00:28:03   but the band is still the members like

00:28:06   you know one person can be the band the

00:28:08   band is the two of them I just thought

00:28:11   that I thought that was really

00:28:12   interesting and you could just see like

00:28:14   these are guys who work together a lot

00:28:17   and and really know where their

00:28:20   strengths lie whilst also remaining

00:28:22   friends like that cuz one of my favorite

00:28:24   examples of this is the Mythbusters are

00:28:27   you familiar with the story there no I'm

00:28:30   but I'm not sure what you're talking

00:28:32   about here so they especially Adam

00:28:35   Savage it gives more interviews than

00:28:37   this because he's more of a like a

00:28:38   public person he is someone who has

00:28:40   remained kind of in the spotlight since

00:28:42   Mythbusters ended and he said this is

00:28:45   fact they're not friends they seem to

00:28:48   not particularly like each other very

00:28:49   much one of the quote

00:28:52   step adam savage mentions a lot is that

00:28:54   they have never eaten a meal alone hmm

00:28:57   and they worked together for 10-15 years

00:29:00   something like that

00:29:01   Mythbusters was on the air for a long

00:29:03   time yeah and but before that Adam

00:29:05   Savage worked for Jamie like that's how

00:29:07   it started

00:29:08   like who's an employee his prop shop and

00:29:12   their part they just they can work

00:29:14   together incredibly well they know what

00:29:16   the other one is thinking they can have

00:29:19   a kind of like a language between the

00:29:21   two of them apparently they argued and

00:29:23   debated about every single point but

00:29:25   always at the end one of them knew that

00:29:27   the other was right and that was the way

00:29:28   that they work together and it's so

00:29:30   interesting to me because I can't

00:29:31   imagine that environment like I only

00:29:34   work with people I consider friends I

00:29:37   couldn't imagine being in that way but

00:29:41   what's going on is the same thing right

00:29:43   like they just know how the other one

00:29:45   works so like whether they're friends

00:29:47   like it doesn't matter because what you

00:29:48   actually need to know is to understand

00:29:49   yourself understand the other person and

00:29:52   their needs and then you can work

00:29:53   together over a long period of time that

00:29:56   I think people assume that you should

00:29:57   have to be friends with someone but I

00:29:59   think that they are a good example of

00:30:02   why you actually don't need to be you

00:30:05   just have to have the fundamentals of

00:30:06   what you'd consider a friendship but

00:30:08   they don't actually have to result in

00:30:10   being friends which I just find that

00:30:12   comparing to these two is very

00:30:14   interesting is that they it's all there

00:30:16   it's the same thing as then they know

00:30:17   the strengths and weaknesses and they

00:30:19   play to that they don't overstep and

00:30:21   they work within their boundaries it's

00:30:23   the same thing I didn't know that about

00:30:25   Mythbusters and I'm I'm willing to bet

00:30:28   that that I know like I don't want to

00:30:31   say it annoys but I bet I bet that's a

00:30:32   thing that bothers a lot of people I

00:30:34   think it does yeah when when you're

00:30:36   watching a show is like you want to

00:30:39   think that they're friends and that

00:30:42   they're hanging out

00:30:43   when I first found that out I was really

00:30:46   bummed out about it cuz I love yo I love

00:30:49   the show and they seem to work so great

00:30:50   together and I just assumed that they

00:30:52   were the best of friends so when you

00:30:54   hear that you're like oh no like they're

00:30:56   my buddies yeah I get I guess part of

00:31:00   this is also I think that people might

00:31:02   have a hard time a hard time

00:31:05   understanding that kind of professional

00:31:06   relationship or it's like are they

00:31:08   friends they but they don't have to be

00:31:09   friends but it doesn't mean that they

00:31:12   hate each other right like they're just

00:31:14   they're there they work together they

00:31:16   know how to work with each other but

00:31:18   that's that's interesting I could that's

00:31:20   interesting you hear that that's your

00:31:21   reaction because that's what I would

00:31:22   think most people would feel that way

00:31:24   where they're like oh I want to imagine

00:31:26   that everybody's friends that like they

00:31:27   and the whole crew sit down and have

00:31:29   birthday cakes together at the end of

00:31:31   each shoot I was like it but things

00:31:33   don't need to work that way especially

00:31:34   like in Hollywood right people don't

00:31:37   need to be friends they just need to be

00:31:39   able to work together but it is or at

00:31:43   least it comes across in this

00:31:44   documentary that that Trey Parker and

00:31:45   Matt Stone are clearly friends and also

00:31:52   you know thinking thinking of things

00:31:55   structurally it certainly seems like

00:31:58   South Park is able to be what South Park

00:32:01   is because Trey Parker and Matt Stone

00:32:04   are great friends and it seems like they

00:32:08   might not have a lot of friends in the

00:32:10   wider Hollywood world they reference

00:32:13   that yeah it's you know when people say

00:32:17   something like that in documentary I do

00:32:18   always wonder like how much do you

00:32:20   really mean it

00:32:20   but I can really believe it from these

00:32:23   two for everything that they have done

00:32:26   over the course of their careers but

00:32:29   it's like there's a there's an

00:32:30   interesting moment here because it

00:32:31   getting like South South Park will

00:32:34   really make fun of celebrities and

00:32:37   people in the public eye and in a way

00:32:39   that very few other shows will go like

00:32:42   as hard into it as South Park will but I

00:32:46   do think like it that doesn't just

00:32:48   happen it happens structurally because

00:32:51   of the personality of these two and

00:32:53   because they don't really have any

00:32:55   connections

00:32:57   with the wider Hollywood world that goes

00:32:59   so far as to reject it but the thing

00:33:01   that like really highlights that in the

00:33:03   documentary is that one of the writers

00:33:05   in the writers room works on Saturday

00:33:07   Night Live and explicitly says how oh

00:33:10   I'm sorry Night Live the the politics of

00:33:13   making fun of public people comes into

00:33:16   the writing of their skits and it's like

00:33:20   yeah like I can see that and I would

00:33:22   think like that's also probably one of

00:33:23   the reasons why at least to my tastes

00:33:25   South Park is way funnier than Saturday

00:33:28   Night Live and it's because Saturday

00:33:30   Night Live is structurally constrained

00:33:33   by the kinds of jokes they can make

00:33:35   because if they're making jokes about

00:33:37   public figures they can bet they're not

00:33:39   going to get that public figure to host

00:33:41   the show or if they're making jokes

00:33:44   about the public figure they have to be

00:33:45   within a certain bounds they can't go

00:33:47   too far in one direction or another but

00:33:51   it just it hadn't really occurred to me

00:33:54   until seeing that but it's like oh right

00:33:56   that makes total sense that that this is

00:34:00   structurally why the show is able to do

00:34:02   this and other comedies play it much

00:34:04   more safe when it comes to referencing

00:34:07   specific people in the real world but

00:34:10   South Park doesn't care because Matt and

00:34:12   Trey have nothing to lose it's like

00:34:14   they're not losing their friends they

00:34:15   don't have any friends in that world you

00:34:18   know they clearly thumbed their nose at

00:34:21   that world like they did at the was the

00:34:23   Oscars was that the party that they

00:34:26   showed the dresses it's interesting on

00:34:29   acid

00:34:30   it's funny I remember seeing that when

00:34:34   it happened and I was much younger and

00:34:36   just thought like oh those kinds of just

00:34:37   in dresses but watching the clip now as

00:34:39   an adult

00:34:40   particularly Trey Parker there's a

00:34:42   moment it's like dude you are so clearly

00:34:44   I and on drugs like I cannot believe

00:34:47   you're just showing up to the Oscars

00:34:49   like this but yeah that's that's how you

00:34:51   don't make any friends in the

00:34:53   professional world but yeah so I is very

00:34:56   interesting to watch seeing that whole

00:34:59   process seeing how long it takes to come

00:35:01   up with the ideas just as someone who's

00:35:04   watched the show it's also very

00:35:07   interesting to watch the the writer

00:35:09   process where

00:35:11   you can see them start to play with the

00:35:13   ideas and and they start to do the

00:35:16   voices and you can see then like come

00:35:18   together with the puzzle pieces of of

00:35:21   what the show should be like I have to

00:35:23   say it was very interesting to watch

00:35:25   that develop over time but towards the

00:35:29   very end the thing that I just could not

00:35:31   believe is that this episode was in the

00:35:35   end delivered five hours before the

00:35:40   broadcast time that that's that's when

00:35:43   they got the final render out of the

00:35:45   animation and it's like they hand a they

00:35:49   had to tape to a guy who brings it to

00:35:50   the the machine that's going to

00:35:52   broadcast it across Comedy Central and

00:35:54   it's like with a five hour five hours to

00:35:57   spare it's it's unbelievable that they

00:36:00   do it there's some guy in his car and

00:36:03   tries to over it's that way you know

00:36:10   just put it on a DVD and taking it there

00:36:11   I mean the thing that is worth mention

00:36:14   as well cuz I can imagine like if you're

00:36:15   not seeing this documentary they're like

00:36:17   how is that possible right because it's

00:36:19   such a racy edgy show like how can

00:36:21   Comedy Central allow it

00:36:23   well it seems like that they have

00:36:24   developed a system and a process where

00:36:26   the executive producer will have

00:36:28   multiple calls with the standards bodies

00:36:30   and of Comedy Central

00:36:34   all of the cuss words they're allowed to

00:36:35   use how many they're allowed to use

00:36:37   which ones they can replace for

00:36:38   something else what they complete what

00:36:40   they can't bleep and it ends up in just

00:36:43   this wild these wild phone calls that

00:36:46   you over here with and the the executive

00:36:48   producers name is and Gary Fino and it's

00:36:51   so funny to just watch her reading these

00:36:54   lines in like a totally deadpan way

00:36:56   she's using a boring corporate voice

00:36:59   discuss the details of exactly how

00:37:01   graphic they can be with their Human

00:37:03   Centipede and then it's just like well

00:37:06   you know happy Easter Bob right and

00:37:07   click something like that right is it

00:37:12   happy is it something like that yeah

00:37:14   just wishes them like a great afternoon

00:37:15   or it's just so strange but you can

00:37:18   imagine after 20 years there is no trust

00:37:21   bill up yeah right they kids they're not

00:37:24   gonna

00:37:24   do something so crazy that they would

00:37:26   get shut down like at that point they're

00:37:28   well enough no identity and I guess this

00:37:31   is like another sign of collaboration

00:37:33   that we don't get to see a lot of but

00:37:34   like how they work with Comedy Central

00:37:36   it's kind of is kind of strange so I

00:37:38   have a question for you right and I

00:37:39   think I know the answer to this but I

00:37:40   want to ask you anyway

00:37:41   could you work in this environment oh my

00:37:44   god now I'm kind of you know it's again

00:37:49   there's a thing there's a thing that I

00:37:52   sometimes think is underappreciated in

00:37:55   the world but that some people who are

00:37:58   very successful it is not obvious to

00:38:03   outsiders just how much of their life

00:38:08   they are burning on the thing that they

00:38:10   are successful with and I think this

00:38:12   documentary is a is a great view into

00:38:17   that of of just what these guys are

00:38:23   putting into this is just inhuman and

00:38:27   then when you add on top of it like

00:38:29   other side projects that they do you

00:38:32   know successful musicals other movies

00:38:35   the video games like like all of this

00:38:37   other stuff it's it's just crazy but it

00:38:42   gets them such an amazing level of

00:38:46   success and I know we were discussing

00:38:50   last time about the question a little

00:38:51   bit about oh just because you put in the

00:38:53   hours doesn't doesn't mean you're

00:38:55   successful even if someone even if a

00:38:57   genie could come along and could say to

00:38:59   me like oh if you put in the hours

00:39:02   you could be as successful as these - is

00:39:04   that something you would want to do I

00:39:05   would say no because I just this is a

00:39:09   place where I do know myself and I I

00:39:12   don't work well under deadlines I

00:39:14   couldn't possibly dedicate as much in

00:39:20   human time and energy as they do into

00:39:23   this so I feel like I know myself and

00:39:26   that I am much happier with a much

00:39:29   diminished relatively level of success

00:39:31   for for not having to produce

00:39:36   episodes within six days and having to

00:39:39   stay up until 5:00 in the morning and

00:39:41   pulling these all-nighters and eating

00:39:42   sad McDonald's and all the rest of it

00:39:44   it's just I couldn't I couldn't possibly

00:39:47   even if it meant it came with all the

00:39:49   rewards that it does would you Mike

00:39:51   which you took would you take that deal

00:39:54   contrary to almost everything else about

00:39:56   my personality and my disposition is a

00:39:59   human being

00:40:00   I have always worked and thrived in

00:40:04   crisis situations so especially when I

00:40:08   was working at the bank if something

00:40:10   went terribly wrong if there was

00:40:11   something that was going wrong I could

00:40:14   and always did work very well in those

00:40:16   environments like everything's crumbling

00:40:18   down how do you fix it

00:40:21   to the point that like if a team member

00:40:23   was having a crisis I would want to be

00:40:27   involved in it to help because I kind of

00:40:30   thrived on that pressure and the kind of

00:40:33   impending disaster it's very strange

00:40:35   because there is nothing else than what

00:40:37   my personality which would indicate that

00:40:38   I would enjoy this but I did yeah but I

00:40:41   think this is a trait that some people

00:40:42   just have yeah I and and I think you

00:40:44   have it and you know it doesn't it

00:40:47   doesn't it really doesn't gel with

00:40:48   anything else about the way that I work

00:40:49   because you know I could be a nervous

00:40:51   person I can be a warrior like it's very

00:40:53   strange that I have those two parts of

00:40:54   me but there they are so I don't think I

00:40:58   could work there for very long but I

00:41:01   think I could do it for a not tiny

00:41:03   period of time I think for a few years I

00:41:06   could I could work in that environment

00:41:08   and would enjoy the last 24 hours and

00:41:12   that's why I would keep coming why keep

00:41:14   putting it myself through it would be

00:41:16   for the last 24 hours

00:41:17   mm-hmm but I think I would burn out

00:41:20   often maybe two or three years of it

00:41:22   like I don't think I could do it for

00:41:23   long but I think it's something that I

00:41:25   could enjoy not that I ever want to work

00:41:27   in an environment like that necessarily

00:41:30   I'm not gonna seek it out but if I was

00:41:32   in it I think I would enjoy it but you

00:41:34   don't think you could do it for 20 plus

00:41:36   years

00:41:36   most definitely not I it's wild people

00:41:41   doing anything for that period of time

00:41:43   the same thing is astounding to me you

00:41:46   know I used to work with people that

00:41:47   have been in the same jobs in the same

00:41:49   places for 30 years

00:41:50   and I think it's an unbelievable thing

00:41:52   cuz I couldn't do that like I wouldn't

00:41:55   be able to stay just doing the same

00:41:57   thing and I find it astounding that they

00:42:00   have kept the same roles that they've

00:42:01   had for 20 years and like basically

00:42:03   uninterrupted that is a commitment that

00:42:07   I don't think I could have to something

00:42:09   like that I agree with you there I agree

00:42:12   with you there but I've got to say Mike

00:42:14   I'm glad you mentioned this a while back

00:42:16   as a thing that we should watch I feel

00:42:18   like I'm really happy that I saw it

00:42:19   mm-hmm

00:42:20   I hope for the people who did watch it

00:42:21   that they found it interesting even if

00:42:24   you're not necessarily a fan of South

00:42:26   Park and I would I would be curious if

00:42:29   the listeners out there do know of any

00:42:33   other documentaries in this kind of

00:42:35   genre of following people at work or

00:42:40   people who work on interesting things I

00:42:41   would love to hear some recommendation

00:42:43   yeah because I just I can't think of

00:42:46   anything else that's like this off the

00:42:49   top of my head and I'd be very curious

00:42:50   to see some more we could just do a

00:42:52   rewatch of the office looking for

00:43:01   something that's real wait I have bad

00:43:06   news for you my British office is not

00:43:07   real they're very different things yeah

00:43:12   the American office is more my style of

00:43:14   comedy in the British office today's

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00:45:48   support of this show okay Mike I have

00:45:51   another little little update for the

00:45:54   year of order order no no Mike it's just

00:45:57   that don't say it like that so I said it

00:46:04   in a totally normal way which is the

00:46:06   year of order right that's that's the we

00:46:08   have a little update for that so my my

00:46:13   home office at this

00:46:15   moment is empty everything needs to be

00:46:18   redone

00:46:19   there's packages that have been

00:46:20   delivered to my glass cube all of that

00:46:23   is underway I want to get that stuff

00:46:25   finished are you up to three desks and

00:46:28   the cube now or we still did two there's

00:46:31   the two desks

00:46:32   why do you man

00:46:36   I just make a silly joke but it ends up

00:46:41   turning into like there's actually

00:46:42   something really going on yeah well do

00:46:48   really me already

00:46:49   now there's two desks in the glass cube

00:46:51   and I I think that they are going to end

00:46:55   up being two desks in the Home Office

00:46:57   but I need to I need to settle on that a

00:47:00   little bit more but more that happens we

00:47:05   spent so much time talking about like

00:47:07   the specifics of the one purpose of the

00:47:12   Home Office if it has two desks there's

00:47:16   two purposes no we can't get into this

00:47:20   now Mike we can't I refused to be

00:47:23   derailed on this because I still I still

00:47:25   have thoughts okay and and you cut me

00:47:29   off last time anyway with with

00:47:31   discussing the Home Office glass cube

00:47:34   situation I had so much important to

00:47:36   talk about what we have to bring that so

00:47:37   I I wondered if you notice ya know I'm

00:47:46   no fool I know exactly what you were

00:47:48   doing there was there was much more to

00:47:49   be discussed you have touched upon it

00:47:51   now but you know what I'm refusing to

00:47:53   talk about it I'm gonna I'm gonna let it

00:47:55   percolate I tried to write you out of

00:47:57   that right that was that being the

00:47:59   director so very subtle very subtle

00:48:03   thing Mike I didn't notice at all so

00:48:05   anyway we're just gonna skip that we're

00:48:07   just gonna Sherman

00:48:09   yeah so I don't I don't have a long

00:48:11   topic on the year of order but I did I

00:48:13   did just want to mention something

00:48:15   because I know something people are

00:48:16   interested in which is my eventual

00:48:22   return to full-on use of task managers

00:48:26   this year

00:48:28   this is a thing that's going to happen

00:48:30   at some point but I did just want to to

00:48:33   mention that I have been using things a

00:48:40   lot this year so this is things three is

00:48:43   the name as always with TAS managers and

00:48:45   timers you have to have these names that

00:48:46   are very difficult to talk about and

00:48:48   things is one of those it isn't as bad

00:48:49   as do you though a do is do is the worst

00:48:53   to do is close oh I saw another one I

00:48:58   saw another one there's something well

00:49:00   it was called like do but it was like do

00:49:01   oh I was like all your dooms you do a

00:49:03   start task manager one of my favorite

00:49:06   studies Ted you seen that right I don't

00:49:09   think I don't think I've seen that one

00:49:10   no te ux de UX oh yes I have seen that

00:49:16   you said yeah it's not yes but it's the

00:49:21   problem is there's so many task managers

00:49:22   right if you're trying to come up with a

00:49:23   name you're limited for things but it's

00:49:27   they all end up being relatively

00:49:29   ambiguous but hmm I did just want to

00:49:31   mention things because I've been using

00:49:35   it just just a little bit sort of very

00:49:38   informally to keep a record of some of

00:49:40   the projects that I have active but I

00:49:43   wouldn't say that I'm like I'm all in on

00:49:45   using it as a task manager I've just

00:49:46   been using it as kind of like a

00:49:47   placeholder like where do I write down

00:49:49   the things that I'm currently working on

00:49:51   but I have to say I just I'm really

00:49:54   impressed by it as a task manager I

00:49:57   think the the things three redesign like

00:50:00   for a long time I didn't touch things to

00:50:03   because it seemed like it was not

00:50:04   actively under development it hadn't

00:50:07   been updated in a really long time but

00:50:08   things three is just a really really

00:50:10   great update and I know on the show

00:50:14   previously I have said that my sort of

00:50:16   default task manager recommendation if I

00:50:18   don't know anything about a person is to

00:50:21   just use clear and said let go just just

00:50:23   run with clear but since I know they

00:50:26   have a new one in development but it

00:50:27   isn't available yet but right now I

00:50:30   think I would have to switch that to

00:50:32   things as if you want to get started

00:50:36   with the task manager and you don't know

00:50:38   where to begin

00:50:39   I really have to recommend things 3 as

00:50:41   the

00:50:42   to start it's just it's very simple it's

00:50:46   very beautiful and it has a couple of

00:50:49   really clever features in it that are

00:50:53   things that I originally thought like oh

00:50:54   I don't know about this but I have have

00:50:57   come to love and wish that other task

00:50:59   managers do like this there's the one

00:51:02   thing that is just so simple but when

00:51:04   you're laying out a project things gives

00:51:06   you this option to create little

00:51:09   subheadings and those subheadings aren't

00:51:12   tasks they're not anything they're just

00:51:15   a way that you can group something into

00:51:18   different areas and say like oh all of

00:51:19   these tasks go under this heading and

00:51:22   all of these tasks you under this

00:51:23   heading and it's it's so nice and

00:51:26   freeing to have a visual distinction

00:51:31   between things that doesn't also have a

00:51:33   meaning right like these things are not

00:51:35   sub projects or anything like that it's

00:51:38   just

00:51:38   oh here's here's some visual separation

00:51:40   between these different tasks what does

00:51:42   this visual separation mean nothing it

00:51:44   means nothing at all and they have a

00:51:46   very simple way to specify tasks that

00:51:49   you should be doing today which a lot of

00:51:51   task managers have but everybody have an

00:51:53   additional nice feature which is you can

00:51:55   specify oh this task is for this evening

00:51:59   and it just moves it down to the bottom

00:52:02   of the list just a lot of really really

00:52:04   nice touches and have to say I'm very

00:52:06   impressed with it and I like it a lot as

00:52:08   a simple task manager that isn't

00:52:12   completely stripped back I don't know

00:52:16   have you played with it at all Mike or

00:52:18   are you totally unfamiliar with things

00:52:20   no enough of my friends have been

00:52:22   gushing over it that I decided to give

00:52:26   it a try

00:52:27   I know titi likes it a lot were talking

00:52:29   about things yes and that's why I

00:52:31   decided to give it a go just because of

00:52:33   how much she's been enjoying it and I

00:52:35   know that Steven tried it and he liked

00:52:37   it but it ultimately didn't work for him

00:52:39   and I've played around a bit very little

00:52:42   but I know it's not the right app for me

00:52:45   just for a couple of reasons the main

00:52:49   one being the way in which you select

00:52:52   dates and alerts is so cumbersome

00:52:55   it's it feels very clunky to me after

00:52:58   having used to doest loop for so long

00:53:01   because todoist

00:53:02   it's all natural language and once you

00:53:07   get used to typing in take-out-the-trash

00:53:09   at 4 p.m. pound sign personal and then

00:53:13   what that does is takes the task puts a

00:53:15   reminder in and an alert for 4 o'clock

00:53:17   and it puts it in my personal project

00:53:19   group that's wonderful and all of that

00:53:21   in things you're hitting a bunch of

00:53:23   buttons in here a bunch of dropdowns and

00:53:25   they're repeating tasks UI is not good

00:53:29   yeah I loved the design and some of the

00:53:34   thoughts behind it I mean it is a

00:53:36   beautiful iPhone app in which to duyst

00:53:39   is kind of like just a decent-looking

00:53:41   cross-platform application right like

00:53:43   that's how even decent there I'm I feel

00:53:46   like that's it's fine right like it's

00:53:49   not offensive because it's so plain I'm

00:53:51   not saying it's offensive but it's not

00:53:53   great it's not great but ultimately what

00:53:55   I'm looking for my task manager is the

00:53:58   functionality either I want as opposed

00:54:00   to do with the design and whilst things

00:54:03   design is wonderful they're missing a

00:54:06   bunch of things I mean and also like

00:54:08   whilst I don't use a ton ton of it like

00:54:10   having the Web API stuff is important to

00:54:12   me now because I like to have things go

00:54:14   in on their own and just as an option

00:54:16   for the future I don't really show that

00:54:18   sort of stuff off but I've tried things

00:54:19   I don't know if it would be my

00:54:21   recommendation for people but I but I

00:54:24   can see why it would be somebody's if

00:54:27   that makes sense like what's not what I

00:54:28   would give I would still recommend

00:54:29   todoist especially because to-do list

00:54:32   you can try for free I don't even think

00:54:34   things has a subscription plan and it is

00:54:37   a in the world of applications a

00:54:39   relatively expensive application and you

00:54:42   have to buy it on all platforms

00:54:43   individually but it is beautiful and if

00:54:48   you are if you really care about design

00:54:50   in your applications like you really

00:54:51   really care then this is probably the

00:54:53   one you should try I agree that I would

00:54:57   have a hard time if I had to use that as

00:55:00   my main and only task manager forever

00:55:03   that the limitations I would find really

00:55:05   frustrating but there's two things here

00:55:07   I find I always find it an inch

00:55:09   a thought experiment about if you had to

00:55:12   make a recommendation and you didn't

00:55:14   know anything about the person like what

00:55:16   would you recommend if you knew someone

00:55:19   was going to buy Mac but you didn't know

00:55:21   anything about them like what would you

00:55:23   recommend is the default knife I guess

00:55:24   this is an interesting thought

00:55:25   experiment and I feel like things is my

00:55:28   task manager' recommendation if I didn't

00:55:30   know anything about the person what

00:55:32   would I do what would do that but also I

00:55:34   just want to recommend it because I have

00:55:36   really enjoyed it because I think that

00:55:39   there are times when the limitations are

00:55:41   helpful it's the very fact that things

00:55:44   is lacking some of the more complicated

00:55:47   features that has while I'm still

00:55:49   feeling out the edges of what does the

00:55:52   year of order mean it's forcing me to be

00:55:56   more limited in what I'm actually

00:55:59   keeping track of right now and it's the

00:56:01   same reason why if someone has no

00:56:03   experience with task managers whatsoever

00:56:05   I always recommend someone just starts

00:56:07   with paper like just get a notebook and

00:56:09   paper and write things down because you

00:56:12   don't even know where you want to begin

00:56:13   and like force yourself with the

00:56:15   simplicity of that before we move on

00:56:17   from this topic do you have any thoughts

00:56:20   about OmniFocus 3 like the upcoming

00:56:23   announcements and stuff of OmniFocus 3

00:56:25   yeah well well this is this is one of

00:56:28   the questions right if I can't stick

00:56:30   with things for forever where am I gonna

00:56:33   go and then and we see on the horizon

00:56:35   there how many focus and the thing I

00:56:39   love about OmniFocus they're their

00:56:40   strongest suit as always is hiding from

00:56:44   you the things that you can do nothing

00:56:47   about right now that to me is such a

00:56:49   killer feature it's why I always I

00:56:52   always come back to OmniFocus and I'm

00:56:55   always happy when they publish their

00:56:57   roadmap at the beginning of the year

00:56:59   because of course I'm intensely

00:57:01   interested in what they're doing and

00:57:02   especially having been away from task

00:57:05   managers for so long I feel like I'm

00:57:07   coming back to it with different eyes

00:57:09   one of the things I'm really really glad

00:57:12   to see that OmniFocus is doing they are

00:57:15   finally getting rid of the concept of

00:57:19   contexts and replacing them

00:57:22   with tags I feel like that is there is a

00:57:24   huge improvement so that you can have a

00:57:27   task and you can put an arbitrary number

00:57:29   of tags associated with it rather than

00:57:33   having to pick a single context which

00:57:36   they discuss on their blog post that

00:57:38   this is this is a thing that as time has

00:57:41   gone on that people who are unfamiliar

00:57:43   with getting things done have a hard

00:57:45   time understanding like this concept of

00:57:47   what is a context supposed to be and

00:57:49   I've always argued that I think in as

00:57:52   time has gone on one of the ways that

00:57:54   getting things done has not held up is

00:57:57   this idea that your work is so clearly

00:58:01   defined by the physical world and like

00:58:03   that just and that was what context grow

00:58:05   out of is this idea of these physical

00:58:07   constraints it's like we just kind of

00:58:09   don't live in that world anymore I think

00:58:12   this doesn't make sense for most people

00:58:14   the way it used to so I got to say I am

00:58:16   really really glad that they're bringing

00:58:18   in tags and they're ditching contexts

00:58:21   I'm super happy about that there's a

00:58:24   bunch of other great features I like it

00:58:25   it looks like they're improving

00:58:26   notifications they're changing around

00:58:28   the design which I think can be improved

00:58:31   they're working on automation of course

00:58:33   I always love automation there is one

00:58:35   question though that I have from reading

00:58:38   this blog post I was reading a section

00:58:40   real close as I can't quite figure out

00:58:43   what do you mean by this omni group and

00:58:46   it is their section on how dates are

00:58:51   managed with OmniFocus because I love

00:58:54   OmniFocus but the one thing that really

00:58:57   kills me sometimes is the way that at

00:59:00   least currently they handled dates where

00:59:03   there's this strange thing where if you

00:59:05   have a task and you assign a due date to

00:59:08   it it remembers what time zone you're in

00:59:12   when you assign that due date but

00:59:15   there's no way to modify or change that

00:59:17   time zone and I think had I been using

00:59:22   OmniFocus over the previous year with

00:59:24   the amount of travel that I have have

00:59:26   been doing that would have driven me

00:59:28   crazy because I was just constantly in

00:59:31   different time zones or working with

00:59:33   different things I'd like to have

00:59:35   that have this invisible time zone

00:59:37   associated with them would be madness

00:59:40   and my whole system revolves around the

00:59:43   idea of gray master time that almost

00:59:47   every single one of my tasks is due or

00:59:52   needs to be done relative to me and my

00:59:56   time not relative to like what is the

00:59:56   time not relative to like what is the

01:00:00   time in California right now or what is

01:00:01   the time in New York and this is one of

01:00:03   the reasons that I love and used to do

01:00:05   list because if you do this when you

01:00:07   arrive in a new place it asks you do you

01:00:09   want to change to this your task to this

01:00:11   time zone and if you say yes if you add

01:00:14   a task it was going off at 12 o'clock in

01:00:16   London it will go off at 12 o'clock in

01:00:18   New York right like just full it just

01:00:21   changes all of your task times for you

01:00:23   to do it is great because it asks the

01:00:26   vast majority of task manager systems

01:00:29   don't even ask they just assume that the

01:00:33   time is relative to wherever you are so

01:00:36   like if you said if you set a reminder

01:00:38   and Apple say like go remind me about a

01:00:39   thing at 2:00 p.m. and you get on a

01:00:41   flight and change time zones in the mean

01:00:43   time it'll remind you at 2:00 p.m.

01:00:44   wherever you landed and it's same thing

01:00:47   with things

01:00:47   same thing with almost every single task

01:00:49   manager I've ever used it's just

01:00:50   OmniFocus has this one this like weird

01:00:53   feature and they they do discuss in

01:00:55   their article talking about how the

01:00:56   dates are going to change that

01:00:58   currently there are five different times

01:01:00   that are tracked with each task but the

01:01:04   user only has access to two of them and

01:01:05   I'm wondering like what the heck are

01:01:07   those other two I don't understand but

01:01:10   so anyway I am deeply deeply hoping that

01:01:14   this is addressed that OmniFocus that

01:01:18   you can set a task to be a floating task

01:01:21   that it does not have a time zone again

01:01:24   not not least because I'm still looking

01:01:26   at this year where there's going to be a

01:01:27   lot of travel ahead and if if this

01:01:33   hasn't been addressed I'm going to need

01:01:35   to figure out what is it that I'm going

01:01:38   to do with my task management system but

01:01:41   if it has been addressed and I feel like

01:01:43   almost almost certainly a couple months

01:01:45   from now I'll be telling you about like

01:01:47   oh this this system that I've set up in

01:01:48   OmniFocus but in general though

01:01:51   OmniFocus like it looks really great the

01:01:53   roadmap and the things that they're

01:01:55   doing I hope to god that they fix the

01:01:57   time zone thing they're doing a really

01:01:59   interesting idea with collaborations I'm

01:02:01   just I'm very curious to see where it

01:02:04   goes and I think it's I think it's just

01:02:05   a great piece of software although I

01:02:08   think also a custom icon wouldn't go

01:02:09   astray

01:02:10   yeah custom icons huh how are those

01:02:13   working for you well you know Mike I

01:02:16   think the thing is a custom icon you

01:02:18   need custom icons all apps should offer

01:02:21   custom icon colors because when you're

01:02:25   trying to arrange a home screen colors

01:02:27   are very important can't have too many

01:02:29   of the same colors near each other or if

01:02:31   their color is that you don't like you

01:02:32   don't want them on your home screen so

01:02:34   custom icons very important for home

01:02:36   screen arrangement today's episode of

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01:05:10   just mention it mention why not just

01:05:12   throw home screen arrangement around as

01:05:15   a phrase you know you have to give it up

01:05:18   let's see what you got we have not

01:05:20   exchanged our home screens since we

01:05:22   moved to the iPhone 10 it feels like we

01:05:24   do home screens every week I help you do

01:05:27   this all the time this already once a

01:05:30   year we do this and I want to see if the

01:05:35   iPhone 10 has changed things for you I

01:05:37   will mention that the the wallpaper the

01:05:41   core-tex wallpaper that the wonderful

01:05:44   designer forgotten tale put together for

01:05:46   us was painstakingly updated for the

01:05:49   iPhone 10 like I was helping him out

01:05:54   with it and we were trying to get it to

01:05:56   just work just right it has been

01:05:58   painstakingly updated so it aligns

01:06:00   properly so you know I know a lot of

01:06:03   people like that wallpaper and it's

01:06:05   still available and there is now a true

01:06:07   black version ooh nice on the OLED

01:06:10   screens it is black it's not blue or

01:06:13   gray anymore so that's the thing that is

01:06:16   available there are a couple of options

01:06:17   and that's still available for free and

01:06:20   I'll put a link in our show notes if you

01:06:22   want to grab that but it has been

01:06:23   updated so if you have an iPhone 10 then

01:06:26   you may want to you may want to check it

01:06:28   out so okay let's exchange home screens

01:06:31   here okay Mike I've sent you I've shown

01:06:33   you my home screen it's time for you to

01:06:34   show me yours oh you've done a whole bit

01:06:36   thing again oh my gosh I haven't done a

01:06:40   whole big thing I have not done the

01:06:42   whole big thing again and what you have

01:06:44   just sent me you have no right to talk

01:06:46   about ugly yeah I don't know no no I'm

01:06:53   like I feel like we're starting all over

01:06:55   again this is like the first time we

01:06:57   exchanged home screens my home screen

01:07:00   looks like how people's home screens

01:07:02   look it's a wallpaper and there's a

01:07:05   bunch of apps yours is like oh here's a

01:07:08   grid of 12 smack bang in the middle of

01:07:11   the phone yeah your home screen looks

01:07:13   like people's home screens look like

01:07:14   which is what garbage looks like and

01:07:16   it's not the comparison you're like oh

01:07:18   my screen looks like most people's

01:07:19   because I always peer over everybody's

01:07:22   shoulders to see what their home screens

01:07:23   look like and most people's home screens

01:07:25   make me want to vomit and this is this

01:07:31   very busy mic this is a real real busy

01:07:33   screen just a full screen it's it's very

01:07:36   it's very colorful so yeah this is a

01:07:40   special members-only really I found

01:07:43   wallpaper that I have so if you want to

01:07:46   get that wallpaper you have to be a real

01:07:48   AFN member we have a whole pack of

01:07:49   wallpapers and this is one from the

01:07:51   remaster podcast that I do and I love it

01:07:53   very much it's nice and bright I spent a

01:07:56   long time trying to get it aligned it's

01:07:57   not perfect but it's as close as I can

01:07:59   make it happen yeah I think I like the

01:08:03   remaster artwork retro video game fan

01:08:07   globe it's sort of Trani and also Epcot

01:08:11   Center II it's the remaster artwork one

01:08:14   of the best artworks on the whole of the

01:08:16   relay Network I don't like that you've

01:08:19   just zoomed in on the central part so

01:08:23   that it's it's just this is how gross is

01:08:26   horrible look this is just a wallpaper

01:08:29   you you know you've chosen this and it's

01:08:35   I'm not a fan not a fan at all I think

01:08:37   it's it's really ugly I never expected

01:08:40   you to be a fan but I think that you are

01:08:42   working with some grotesquerie right now

01:08:44   with this situation you've got going on

01:08:46   why is everything in the middle okay

01:08:50   can can I wait before before we get that

01:08:52   can I can we just we need to focus on

01:08:54   you from huh okay it's ugly

01:08:58   we can just get past that make sure um I

01:09:02   mean I mean look at Mike it's like

01:09:04   you're trying to pick all of the colors

01:09:06   in the world because you've also gone

01:09:07   with a custom P calc icon which has the

01:09:09   rainbows around it yeah you've chosen

01:09:11   icons to make more colors all over the

01:09:14   place oh my color again it's clown vomit

01:09:19   the only one you've actually gone the

01:09:20   other way with is the bear icon you've

01:09:22   chosen the the black black and white

01:09:24   bear you don't choose the argument I

01:09:27   choose the theme Michael I wish they

01:09:29   would separate those two things because

01:09:32   right there developers if you're

01:09:34   listening that the fact that you have to

01:09:36   choose your theme and your icon at the

01:09:38   same time and they have to match is

01:09:39   crazy I want I want a big bear icon and

01:09:43   the true black theme in the inside the

01:09:46   application that's one yeah I have

01:09:50   definitely moved back towards all color

01:09:52   again I'm in an old color season for

01:09:55   whatever reason it's the reason for the

01:09:57   colored season that's where I am right

01:09:59   now I can't explain why very Wonka here

01:10:03   okay it's Bru it's the season for colors

01:10:05   okay why is it so full like what why

01:10:12   have you just why have you felt the need

01:10:14   to use them every single space a lot of

01:10:18   things to think about I need access to

01:10:20   stuff immediately yes there will be

01:10:22   there I mean there are a couple of

01:10:24   applications that I don't necessarily

01:10:26   need on the home screen but then it's

01:10:27   gonna throw it out of whack balance wise

01:10:29   right I have like maybe one or two that

01:10:31   I would move away but then yeah there's

01:10:33   always a bit of balance you know so

01:10:35   there are a couple in there in here that

01:10:37   I probably don't need to be there but I

01:10:39   look at my home screen every now and

01:10:41   then and I evaluate and there is nothing

01:10:43   I would take off that screen right now

01:10:45   okay and we have covered many of these

01:10:49   apps many times but I also feel that

01:10:51   this is there's a few on here that I

01:10:56   have no idea what these things are

01:10:58   what is pipedrive Oh pipe drive is a

01:11:00   sales management CRM tool uh-huh

01:11:04   right okay yes that's my that's my big

01:11:06   my big grown up adult application right

01:11:09   my discussed that my corporate sales app

01:11:12   right with the mandatory lowercase

01:11:14   letter logo okay great yeah

01:11:16   what is anchor okay so anchor is audio

01:11:21   social network they respond sir and

01:11:24   relay FM and I've been playing around

01:11:26   with their application so okay alright

01:11:29   too much but yeah there is a cool app I

01:11:32   like it okay and canary

01:11:35   I don't know canary canary is my home

01:11:37   security system oh right okay right so

01:11:40   that's that that's the home security

01:11:41   camera little bus that we call him

01:11:44   you're right that makes sense yeah I

01:11:46   bust the criminals I'm calling Busta

01:11:48   little name right he's busting busting

01:11:50   criminals all day it's crime crime

01:11:51   busting she's just me walking around

01:11:53   though honestly like 1:30 in the morning

01:11:56   fussing you tell me again I see you're

01:11:59   also a cool guy who's on not one not two

01:12:01   but three test flights with these apps

01:12:04   you see that City Instagram want up

01:12:06   there look at me now I'm super fancy no

01:12:08   I know that's that's the thing it's like

01:12:09   ooh you're on the histogram test why

01:12:11   isn't somebody fancy I know these people

01:12:15   just need my good opinions you know they

01:12:20   certainly don't need your good designed

01:12:21   opinions though that's that's for sure

01:12:23   oh yeah okay yeah this just expansive

01:12:27   disgusting just darkness with these I

01:12:30   just I couldn't I couldn't I couldn't

01:12:33   possibly look at this purple monstrosity

01:12:35   all the folders with one application in

01:12:38   them and a bunch of dots great it

01:12:44   doesn't scream and his it's barely such

01:12:48   a missed balance of color as well like

01:12:50   the three molt like green applications

01:12:53   and there will kind of spread out

01:12:54   weirdly and then there's green in the

01:12:57   maps icon yeah yeah I'll give you that

01:12:59   the green the green is a thing that

01:13:01   needs to be worked on but that is partly

01:13:03   bears fault

01:13:04   like I can't choose the color bear icon

01:13:06   that I want which has like knock-on

01:13:07   effects so yeah I agree this this screen

01:13:11   is not what I want the final version of

01:13:13   it to be but I think it is clearly way

01:13:15   better than your

01:13:16   disgusting homescreen disagree what what

01:13:18   are you using filmic perfil okay well

01:13:20   let me let me let me paint it let me

01:13:22   paint a word picture for the people Mike

01:13:23   no people no no cuz you're gonna paint

01:13:26   it nicely people need to just go to AA

01:13:28   showing us and open this horrific image

01:13:30   that I've been put in front of my eyes

01:13:32   with just this weirdo square or

01:13:35   applications sitting in the middle of

01:13:37   this screen it's such a waste

01:13:39   such a waste yeah so rather than junk up

01:13:42   my home screen and take every available

01:13:45   slot like I'm some kind of app hoarder I

01:13:48   have I have chosen instead to do a

01:13:52   little bit of a four by four grid of

01:13:55   apps on my phone I don't need all of

01:13:57   those slots occupied hmm space is a

01:14:00   luxury Mike and so I have luxurious

01:14:03   space on my phone how are you doing this

01:14:06   by the way well what you are about what

01:14:09   you're asking here is I have the grid

01:14:11   centered on the phone because with the

01:14:16   iPhone 10 and with the OLED screen black

01:14:20   backgrounds just look fantastic like the

01:14:23   black levels are great it makes

01:14:25   everything else pop and that's always a

01:14:27   thing I've really liked about the

01:14:28   backgrounds that I choose is trying to

01:14:30   pick backgrounds that highlight the

01:14:33   applications that don't detract and I

01:14:36   don't know if I'm going to stick with it

01:14:38   indefinitely but I have been enjoying

01:14:41   the pure black background as a novelty

01:14:43   with iPhone X and because it's pure

01:14:49   black it now allows me to use that trick

01:14:53   where you can put fake icons above the

01:14:58   actual apps so all I did was I made a

01:15:01   fake icon in workflow where it's just

01:15:05   purely black color and then I added that

01:15:08   to the homescreen so there's there's

01:15:09   four like dummy apps with invisible

01:15:12   names that are taking up the top row

01:15:15   just to move the grid down so that it's

01:15:19   centered on the screen if you can have

01:15:21   the invisible names why do you have the

01:15:22   dots there for the folders I have the

01:15:27   dots there for the folders because

01:15:29   I think it looks visually on like if I

01:15:33   could if I could I wish I could add an

01:15:36   accessibility feature on iPhone called

01:15:40   your app names are dumb and I don't want

01:15:42   to see them especially because they

01:15:44   turned off the names of the apps in the

01:15:46   dock I know if it's it drives me crazy

01:15:49   like again every time I see that the app

01:15:53   names I just I feel like those app name

01:15:55   czar there for idiots and and it's like

01:15:56   yeah anyone who uses their phone any

01:15:58   amount of time knows what the icons are

01:16:01   nobody is reading it and going like me

01:16:02   hmm

01:16:03   where did my calendar go it's so stupid

01:16:13   it's so stupid and I hate it I hate it

01:16:16   so much I've hated it since the dawn of

01:16:19   the iPhone having the stupid words

01:16:21   especially when some of them don't fit

01:16:23   and they like do the little dot that is

01:16:25   a problem of being with so many cool guy

01:16:27   betas is that sometimes they're little

01:16:29   yeah you run out of space don't squish

01:16:31   is the name up you know that can be a

01:16:33   real problem it is if but it really is

01:16:35   it really is a real problem so while in

01:16:38   theory you would think oh you hate these

01:16:41   words so you wouldn't want to have

01:16:43   anything below the folders the four

01:16:44   folders on the top I find that I tried

01:16:47   it by putting invisible names in those

01:16:49   folders but then it just looks visually

01:16:51   unbalanced because all of the icons have

01:16:53   something below them these stupid words

01:16:57   so I feel like I need something below

01:16:59   the folders otherwise it just looks like

01:17:01   there's too much space between the top

01:17:03   row and the next row so I put the dots

01:17:05   there because I find them the least

01:17:07   visually intrusive and that that's why

01:17:09   they're there it's just as visual

01:17:10   balance but they don't have any real

01:17:12   function you ever tried emoji I tried it

01:17:16   once but there's a problem that I don't

01:17:19   I'm not a fan of the design of the Apple

01:17:21   emojis I think they look dumb and I

01:17:23   found them just more distracting to have

01:17:27   on the home screen there are places

01:17:29   where I use emojis actually do use

01:17:31   emojis a lot in my time tracking system

01:17:32   with toggle so that I can

01:17:35   like visually identify stuff faster than

01:17:37   reading but it works there but I don't

01:17:40   like them on the home screen I just

01:17:41   don't like the look of them there -

01:17:43   there - 3d for my liking and so that's

01:17:46   that's why I don't have them there even

01:17:48   even though I think that it would kind

01:17:50   of make more sense to have an emoji that

01:17:52   represents what each of these folders

01:17:53   are but rather instead I'm trying to

01:17:56   pick the one icon that you see in the

01:17:59   folder to be representative of what that

01:18:01   folder is that that's kind of how I'm

01:18:03   labeling these folders but yeah so I

01:18:06   have the the top four folders which are

01:18:09   there simply to act as categories to

01:18:11   sort all of the apps that I don't want

01:18:14   on my home screen into and so those

01:18:18   categories are the first one has the

01:18:20   Settings app in there and that is the

01:18:22   miscellaneous category everything that

01:18:25   doesn't fit anywhere else just goes in

01:18:26   there the next one over has caret

01:18:29   weather and that contains all of the

01:18:32   apps that are I don't know a good way to

01:18:35   describe this but in my head I think of

01:18:36   them as location-based so they have

01:18:41   something to do with where I currently

01:18:43   am so these are like flight tracking

01:18:46   apps or ride-sharing apps or I put the

01:18:49   wallet app in there or if a conference

01:18:51   I'm going to has an app like I put that

01:18:53   app in there or food delivery services

01:18:56   or train ticket apps like all of that

01:19:00   kind of stuff is sort of location-based

01:19:01   do you ever do like a time-sensitive

01:19:04   promotion of an application to the front

01:19:06   page at the folder one of the reasons I

01:19:08   like to have space is so that I can have

01:19:12   that bottom row available to put stuff

01:19:15   down and normally when I'm traveling

01:19:18   there'll be two apps that will go in

01:19:21   that bottom row and it's mainly on the

01:19:24   main screen on the main screen yeah

01:19:25   it'll usually usually be the flight

01:19:28   tracker and I'm still using flight log

01:19:30   or as my main one for that okay I'll

01:19:32   need a recommendation I did give up in

01:19:34   the air a try it's interesting but I'm

01:19:36   still sticking with flight logger as my

01:19:38   main one it's pretty heavy-handed but I

01:19:40   do like it

01:19:41   it is also definitely better than it

01:19:43   used to be like if I had to use it I

01:19:45   wouldn't be upset but I'll put flight

01:19:48   logger

01:19:49   that bottom row and then the other thing

01:19:51   I'll put in the bottom row which I sort

01:19:54   of silly but I'll put the wallet app

01:19:55   down there because like if I don't know

01:20:00   I find when I'm traveling I'm always

01:20:02   real panicky about how long will it take

01:20:04   me to access whatever ticket I have in

01:20:06   my Apple wallet for whatever it is that

01:20:07   I need and so I have the wallet

01:20:10   available everywhere like I have it in

01:20:12   the in the control center and then I'll

01:20:14   put it on the home screen and then some

01:20:17   tickets but not all tickets

01:20:18   frustratingly will show up as

01:20:20   notifications on the lock so like I want

01:20:22   every way to be able to open up that

01:20:24   wallet immediately because I'm oh it's

01:20:26   just like real panicking when the guy

01:20:27   comes over it's like tickets please like

01:20:28   I don't know what second I'm the idiot

01:20:30   with my phone right yeah yeah I feel

01:20:32   that like there's a there's a train line

01:20:36   in London called the Docklands Light

01:20:37   Railway the DLR and unlike any other of

01:20:41   the tube lines or the kind of DF of rail

01:20:45   lines there's no barriers for this train

01:20:49   and there's no drivers for the Train

01:20:51   there's no drivers but there's a

01:20:52   conductor or you could come up and down

01:20:55   and check the tickets because instead of

01:20:56   doing the barriers where like you have

01:20:58   to have the Buried presser to get

01:21:00   through you kind of work on an honor

01:21:02   system if I'm gonna touch my Oyster card

01:21:04   or my iPhone to the to the scanner and

01:21:07   I'm gonna get on the train so because

01:21:09   they have that kind of honor system they

01:21:11   have a conductor periodically who may

01:21:12   come and check and I feel like such a

01:21:15   tool when I double tap my watch and hold

01:21:18   my wrist up for this person to scan my

01:21:20   wrist to make sure that I touched in on

01:21:23   the the pad correctly I feel like such

01:21:25   an idiot in those moments I have to

01:21:28   agree while a lot of the ticket stuff

01:21:30   will show up on the watch I feel

01:21:32   socially reluctant to use the watch as

01:21:35   as a ticket yeah

01:21:37   I'd never do it it's just cuz it's Apple

01:21:39   pay and I use it an Apple pay all the

01:21:41   time but for like tickets for planes and

01:21:43   stuff I would honestly typically still

01:21:46   use the paper one if they give it to me

01:21:49   but other than that I will always use my

01:21:51   phone I like a paper ticket just in case

01:21:54   you in such a high-pressure situation

01:21:57   right when you're in the airports it's

01:22:00   like if they're gonna give me a paper

01:22:01   ticket I'll take it because I

01:22:02   ever back up I don't print out the paper

01:22:05   tickets but I'll say this I have never

01:22:07   regretted it when someone gives me a

01:22:09   ticket I give a thing comes up and I

01:22:11   need to go to the gate a yeah never

01:22:13   print it but if they if they offer to

01:22:15   give me or they give me at the check-in

01:22:17   desk that's what I'll use for the rest I

01:22:19   will I will always take it and there is

01:22:22   one real disadvantage which I think is a

01:22:24   real structural disadvantage in an

01:22:26   airport

01:22:27   especially when lots of people are using

01:22:28   a tickets which I'm just aware of a huge

01:22:31   proportion of people are using the

01:22:33   tickets on their phone like that has

01:22:34   really skyrocketed in airports and the

01:22:37   big disadvantage is everyone is real

01:22:40   gentle with your phone and a lot of the

01:22:43   scanners are built so that you just you

01:22:45   have to give the person your phone to

01:22:48   scan in the tickets yeah yeah and

01:22:50   there's there's this weird like people

01:22:52   are holding it just on the top side like

01:22:54   nobody wants to really grab anybody

01:22:56   else's phone and you really do think

01:22:59   that that slows things down so and but

01:23:04   it's also why that's in many situations

01:23:06   like using the watch it's like oh come

01:23:08   on you know I need to take your whole

01:23:09   arm yes like it weirdly

01:23:11   pushed your arm around and yeah it's

01:23:13   never it's never gonna work

01:23:15   but again I'm always like I'm very

01:23:16   nervous on the lines about having my

01:23:18   iPhone ticket ready because I just I

01:23:22   don't want to be the person who's

01:23:23   holding it up and every once in a while

01:23:25   I've been like I've been so anxious

01:23:26   about having the ticket ready that I'm

01:23:28   fiddling around with it so much that

01:23:30   I'll like lock the phone yeah right

01:23:31   before them and I'm like oh now right

01:23:33   and now now Here I am like now I'm a guy

01:23:35   then you become the British person

01:23:39   fumbling around making little noises

01:23:41   yeah it's terrible but so that that's

01:23:43   why I'll put the wallet in that bottom

01:23:45   space because like any any button no

01:23:47   matter where I can be to get to the

01:23:49   wallet to get to the ticket is what I

01:23:50   want as fast as possible so that that's

01:23:53   the one folder the next folder over

01:23:55   which has the toggle timer in it that's

01:23:57   representative of a bunch of apps that I

01:23:59   just use for work stuff in one form or

01:24:01   another so I toggle that still kind of

01:24:04   sucks right yeah it's not great and it's

01:24:09   probably not very long-lived

01:24:11   on my phone either because

01:24:13   I can't I can't trace it exactly but

01:24:15   somewhere in my system something isn't

01:24:18   ending timers correctly and so I end up

01:24:22   with these weird super long recorded

01:24:26   times that problem is me I woke up this

01:24:32   morning to a 19-hour invoicing timer ya

01:24:37   see I'm always I'm always firing off

01:24:39   timers so I don't have that problem but

01:24:41   every once in a while there's some timer

01:24:42   where it like it weirdly thinks that

01:24:45   even though I have launched 20 timers in

01:24:47   the day there was one timer from the

01:24:48   morning and has also been going on all

01:24:50   day long and I'm I think it's the iOS

01:24:53   app that's doing it but but either way I

01:24:55   just I have it there as a label that

01:24:58   this is the folder for work stuff I

01:25:00   don't use it a lot and I'm probably

01:25:02   going to take it off my phone relatively

01:25:04   soon and then the next one over has the

01:25:06   Apple watch in it and then that just has

01:25:08   a bunch of health-related apps in there

01:25:10   so I have those four folders on the top

01:25:13   for these sorting purposes so it does

01:25:15   make it easier when I need to manually

01:25:17   find an app I have an idea of where it

01:25:19   probably is and also frankly it is like

01:25:23   you were saying while with filling up

01:25:24   the slots on your phone that you do run

01:25:28   into these balance problems of I

01:25:29   actually don't have a ton of apps that I

01:25:31   really would want on the home screen

01:25:33   there's lots of stuff that I'm happy to

01:25:35   search for and so the four on the top is

01:25:38   is again a kind of visual balance the

01:25:41   thing I could get away with one folder

01:25:42   but one folder looked really ugly and

01:25:44   four is fine and I'm I'm looking for

01:25:48   more spaces on the home screen anyway so

01:25:50   I don't I don't mind putting those four

01:25:51   across there but yes I will acknowledge

01:25:55   that the color arrangement an exact

01:25:57   location of some of these apps is not

01:26:00   the best but this is partly coming off

01:26:02   of the gray keishon and not having

01:26:06   settled entirely on what the new phone

01:26:07   will be that's partly why the the

01:26:10   screenshot that I gave you is taken

01:26:12   filmic Pro is on there which is the

01:26:15   camera that I can use for some vlogging

01:26:17   stuff because I was in a place where I

01:26:18   was doing some vlogging recording but

01:26:21   that's that's not an app that needs to

01:26:24   live on the home screen under normal

01:26:25   circumstances

01:26:26   that's gonna get out how many plugs are

01:26:28   you gonna record before you release one

01:26:33   just I've vlog every day

01:26:35   I just never put them out the question

01:26:39   is Mike what is a vlog I can say that I

01:26:44   have made several short vlogs that I've

01:26:47   realized this is boring as all hell and

01:26:50   I just got rid of it

01:26:51   so like that that has happened a number

01:26:52   of times log falls in the woods and

01:26:54   there's no one around blog vlog has

01:26:57   uploaded to YouTube and nobody likes it

01:26:59   did it exist who knows but so anyway

01:27:02   filmic Pro is gonna go off and then of

01:27:04   course that has huge knock-on effects of

01:27:05   everything else but and also the the

01:27:08   arrangement of to do tasks on the bottom

01:27:12   row like that is ultimately going to

01:27:13   change but you just happen to be seeing

01:27:15   it where it is right now are there any

01:27:19   other questions about this particular

01:27:20   set of Evernote man Evernote it's just

01:27:23   never gonna go away is it Evernote it's

01:27:26   here's the thing though this is actually

01:27:29   it's been a long time since Evernote has

01:27:31   been on the home screen of my phone and

01:27:34   part of this was part of this was just

01:27:39   accepting as part of the year of order

01:27:41   like every notes just gonna be with you

01:27:43   man

01:27:43   right it's just gonna be here there's no

01:27:45   way you're ever walking away from that

01:27:47   embrace it and I've put Evernote on the

01:27:52   homescreen specifically so that and it's

01:27:55   worked so far I engage in a particular

01:27:57   behavior which is I often have a thought

01:28:00   for some video and in the past I would

01:28:05   open up a note and I would write it down

01:28:07   and then at some later point I would

01:28:09   cycle that note into the appropriate

01:28:12   place in Evernote and I've decided like

01:28:14   well just just skip that step why not

01:28:16   just accept that ever notes here put it

01:28:18   on the home screen and put the note

01:28:21   right where it belongs immediately and

01:28:23   save yourself the effort later of

01:28:25   sorting and categorizing it so that

01:28:27   actually has worked pretty well and I'm

01:28:29   liking the way that is how is the

01:28:31   Evernote app now it's fine

01:28:34   it's fine cuz I I haven't used it and in

01:28:37   a very long time at this point just

01:28:40   because Apple notes is it gives me

01:28:43   everything I need like I don't need

01:28:45   anymore from it like on the phone what I

01:28:48   would say it's fine for putting stuff in

01:28:51   it's fine from looking stuff up but if

01:28:55   you're gonna do any organization you

01:28:56   better be sitting at a computer or

01:28:58   you're gonna hate your life so if I need

01:29:01   to do any serious Evernote reorganizing

01:29:04   that that'll happen on a computer that

01:29:06   won't happen on the phone Apple Maps use

01:29:10   Apple Maps I have a very particular use

01:29:12   for Apple maps mmm

01:29:13   this is gonna sound I'm pretty sure I've

01:29:15   told you this before I'm not sure I've

01:29:17   said it on the podcast but well you know

01:29:21   what's going here I have a I've

01:29:25   increasingly had a lot of problems with

01:29:26   motion sickness and it's very strange

01:29:30   but when I'm in a car it's is very often

01:29:33   like I can get motion sickness if I'm

01:29:36   not looking out the windows or I'm not

01:29:38   like yeah I just this is this is a

01:29:41   sensitivity that has increased over time

01:29:42   and do you just get it and caused you

01:29:45   get it in planes luckily I have not

01:29:47   gotten it in planes oh that would be bad

01:29:50   I hope that ever happens to you

01:29:52   yeah I'm a little worried just because I

01:29:54   used to never get it in cars either and

01:29:56   now I do and so I feel like uh oh

01:29:58   there's some dial of sensitivity that is

01:30:00   getting turned up over time but if I get

01:30:03   motion sickness on planes like well I

01:30:04   guess I'm just gonna restructure an

01:30:05   amazing portion of my life like that's

01:30:07   what's going to happen because I'm not

01:30:08   gonna put up with that anyway I have

01:30:10   Apple Maps there because I mean

01:30:12   genuinely Apple Maps is is it is reach

01:30:15   the point where it's fine for day-to-day

01:30:16   use but the thing that is surprisingly

01:30:19   helpful is if I'm in a car and I'm not

01:30:23   driving I put the destination into Apple

01:30:27   maps and it does the haptic feedback on

01:30:29   my wrist and it is really helpful to

01:30:33   actually have a little indicator of

01:30:36   which way you're going to turn before

01:30:37   you turn and so I find that is actually

01:30:42   helpful with the car sickness sales

01:30:44   thing so it's it's it's pre preparing

01:30:47   your brain for the

01:30:48   yeah like I will always leave the

01:30:51   navigation on on on my phone but it's

01:30:53   useful because if I don't want to look

01:30:55   at the phone I can just get the haptic

01:30:57   feedback on the watch and yeah it's like

01:30:59   my brain is is ready for the turns and

01:31:02   people always ask like oh but what

01:31:04   happens if the person doesn't make the

01:31:05   turn where Apple Maps thinks it should

01:31:06   make the try it doesn't seem to matter

01:31:08   it just seems to know that like

01:31:10   anticipation of a turn maybe upcoming is

01:31:13   actually the only information that I

01:31:15   really want and it it helps but I do

01:31:18   have to say if you are doing any kind of

01:31:21   actual serious strike like if I'm in

01:31:23   America and I am driving to a place that

01:31:24   I don't know

01:31:26   I will almost always use Google Maps

01:31:28   instead for the actual driving

01:31:30   directions like Google Maps is a serious

01:31:32   like you're doing a road trip in America

01:31:35   you're crazy not to use Google Maps not

01:31:38   least because they have some features

01:31:39   like saving offline maps for when you

01:31:40   get out of cell phone acts like they

01:31:42   have a lot of really great features but

01:31:44   I'm not really using Apple maps for my

01:31:47   own navigation 99% of the time right I'm

01:31:50   using it as like navigational awareness

01:31:53   but it's there on the home screen

01:31:54   because it when it's needed is needed

01:31:56   urgently right there's no fussing it's

01:31:59   good yeah there's no fussing and and

01:32:01   also I do use the maps often enough and

01:32:03   like I said it's fine it's fine for

01:32:05   purpose when I'm looking for things so I

01:32:07   just I just leave it on the home screen

01:32:09   there in London Google Maps is so much

01:32:11   better than Apple maps like the point of

01:32:13   interest data is better they have like

01:32:15   what time is this place busy day - it's

01:32:18   it really is just excellent oh yeah no

01:32:20   yeah I mean that is the thing if I want

01:32:22   to know when a place is busy I always

01:32:23   open up the Google Maps and I want to go

01:32:26   to a place when nobody's there tell me

01:32:27   Google Maps sites that that is one of

01:32:29   the best features I love that feature

01:32:32   and you're still using the start and

01:32:35   stop time is there in the bottom what is

01:32:37   it what is that one in the middle is

01:32:38   that open like a log of your toggle

01:32:40   activities or something okay so this

01:32:42   this is a little bit different this was

01:32:44   part of my effort to increase the amount

01:32:47   of time captured I was trying think

01:32:49   about like what time or do I hit the

01:32:51   most and I've I've set up a timer I mean

01:32:55   is months ago but I set up a timer which

01:32:56   is called loading which I think of is

01:32:58   like the loading screen in a videogame

01:33:00   you know when you're trans

01:33:01   from one area to another as realizing

01:33:04   that there's a lot of my time in life

01:33:06   which I can categorize as like loading

01:33:10   screen behavior that I finished activity

01:33:13   1 I've sort of like oh I'm gonna go get

01:33:17   a coffee now and I'm like in that

01:33:18   transition period of deciding what am I

01:33:21   going to do next and so I've mentally

01:33:25   trained myself that if I don't know what

01:33:29   timer I'm going to hit for the next task

01:33:32   I just automatically hit the loading

01:33:34   timer and what that does is it stops

01:33:37   whatever timer was previously running

01:33:39   and begins this just generic you are in

01:33:42   a transitional state timer which I

01:33:45   really like because it helps me cut down

01:33:48   on that transitional state it helps cut

01:33:50   down on not deciding what's going to

01:33:54   happen next because again I'm aware that

01:33:55   there is this timer in existence but so

01:33:58   that is by far my most frequently hit

01:34:00   single timer is that one so I thought

01:34:03   might as well put it right right in the

01:34:04   center on the home screen in a in a

01:34:07   prominent location so that's what I hit

01:34:08   most of the time now Mike I know you

01:34:10   don't I don't you don't like the home

01:34:12   screen but here's here's a question that

01:34:14   I want to know what you think of here is

01:34:16   my lock screen oh look at that that's

01:34:20   surprising surprising that would even

01:34:22   come up what does that Mike is that one

01:34:25   of these dynamic cool papers yes it is

01:34:29   it is one of the dynamic wallpapers that

01:34:31   Apple introduced years ago and has never

01:34:34   updated ever but it's just the the blue

01:34:38   little color blobs and what do you do

01:34:41   you 3d touch on it and they move or

01:34:43   something all that I just move around on

01:34:44   their own they move automatically so

01:34:46   whenever I pick up the phone the little

01:34:47   blobs come into existence and they move

01:34:50   around with the way the phone moves and

01:34:52   I always hated those animated wallpapers

01:34:55   I didn't think they look great but I'll

01:34:56   tell you again with the black levels of

01:34:58   the of the iPhone X it looks gorgeous

01:35:01   and I always just kind of like having a

01:35:05   little bit of a little bit of whimsy a

01:35:08   little bit of difference when you switch

01:35:10   devices and so this is again a thing

01:35:14   like I don't know

01:35:15   if I'm going to keep this but I like it

01:35:18   and it's it's fun for having the new

01:35:21   device but yeah I like it I like it a

01:35:23   lot and I was just curious if this was

01:35:27   going to get Mike approval or

01:35:28   disapproval I think that there are there

01:35:33   are better options for what you're doing

01:35:36   but I like that there's something going

01:35:38   on so like with the with the infant and

01:35:41   they added a bunch of these 3d touchable

01:35:44   dynamic wallpapers like shifting sands

01:35:47   shifting coloured sands and stuff like

01:35:49   that they're pretty interesting I don't

01:35:52   use them but they're fun yeah but the

01:35:55   problem is they require an action on

01:35:57   your part that's true like you have to

01:35:59   like oh I'm gonna now 3d press my lock

01:36:01   screen to see a thing move how many

01:36:03   times you're gonna do that I like that

01:36:05   this just happens automatically that

01:36:06   they just show up and they move around

01:36:08   and they've made them very reactive to

01:36:12   subtle motions in the phone oh yeah I

01:36:14   like I've just I'm trying to out now and

01:36:17   you move it around then it all goes wild

01:36:20   I don't think I would like that I

01:36:21   originally thought I was gonna try it

01:36:23   for this and the home screen and there

01:36:26   is a nice there is a nice touch that

01:36:27   when you unlock the phone and you swipe

01:36:28   up it'll keep the bubbles in the same

01:36:30   spot when you go to the home screen but

01:36:32   turns out that I hate that icon small

01:36:37   about it yes yeah oh I tried it I tried

01:36:40   it for maybe a day and I was like what

01:36:41   am i doing it's like horrible there's a

01:36:43   Mines clan moment they're like clown

01:36:45   trials us yeah it's it would be no good

01:36:48   there was also a multicolored one which

01:36:49   I was trying for a while and then I

01:36:50   eventually settled on the blue as my

01:36:52   personal favorite so i like that i think

01:36:55   i think it's it's interesting to do and

01:36:57   it looks great on the new phone for the

01:36:59   lockscreen

01:36:59   but i have one more thing to show you

01:37:02   but i just need to grab something from

01:37:03   the other room so I'll be back in just a

01:37:04   second okay

01:37:07   [Music]

01:37:14   I was realizing that we've discussed

01:37:18   home screens now for a while having done

01:37:20   this show and I don't think I've

01:37:23   mentioned one thing that I particularly

01:37:25   like to do so I'm going to show you I

01:37:27   can't show it on my phone because I

01:37:29   don't have it set up right now but I'm

01:37:31   gonna show you how I set up my iPad when

01:37:35   I was on my winter vacation what are you

01:37:41   laughing at Mike before you say anything

01:37:48   I want you to realize that when I was on

01:37:51   my gradation I did this on my iPad and

01:37:53   on my phone for the lock screen and the

01:37:56   home screen it's it's a snowy landscape

01:38:03   of a forest but in this hylia cartoon

01:38:07   aesthetic it's just a flat design

01:38:10   aesthetic you have a little forests and

01:38:12   some snow mm-hmm I'm a big believer in

01:38:17   changing your homescreen and your

01:38:20   lockscreen

01:38:20   for when you're on a holiday I think it

01:38:23   helps make the time psychologically

01:38:25   different so when I go on my gradations

01:38:28   are my corporate retreats I often try to

01:38:30   find a nice a nice little wallpaper

01:38:32   which is not a wallpaper I would use

01:38:34   normally but something that feels like

01:38:35   it fits the matically in wherever

01:38:38   wherever I am so I had this beautiful

01:38:41   beautiful wallpaper on my iPad and on my

01:38:44   home screen for my winter vacation time

01:38:47   and it was lovely and I think it's a

01:38:49   thing that everybody should do and they

01:38:51   say you're a robot