Roderick on the Line

Ep. 278: "Felix"


  this episode of Roderick online was [TS]

  recorded on Tuesday January 23rd 2018 [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  I'm Merlin how's it going how did you [TS]

  missing yeah all right in a week no I I [TS]

  feel like we should come clean no no no [TS]

  I never come clean the dentist I should [TS]

  have done it today it's okay it's all [TS]

  right it's all right be fine I'm sure [TS]

  it'll be fine - it's a it's a big [TS]

  rainstorm today here big rainstorm yeah [TS]

  you know in the morning it it was it was [TS]

  clear and and almost almost sunny and [TS]

  now the big storms coming in a storm and [TS]

  I have a I don't know if you are [TS]

  interested in the weather my family [TS]

  really cares about the weather your [TS]

  memory serves your mom goes pretty deep [TS]

  on weather oh my sister's even worse oh [TS]

  really [TS]

  yeah just all they want to talk about is [TS]

  the freakin weather and I thought I [TS]

  thought that Susan was more like looking [TS]

  at the stars kind of situation oh she [TS]

  loves looking at the stars - yeah yep [TS]

  stars stars are kind of weather [TS]

  stars are yab that stars are like or [TS]

  what we call old web we're seeing we're [TS]

  seeing we're seeing a star what a star [TS]

  look like millions of years ago is that [TS]

  mind-blowing [TS]

  you know the entire universe could be [TS]

  just a molecule in the end of your [TS]

  finger whoa [TS]

  so what's oh wait a minute so you're [TS]

  saying could be in my finger I'm saying [TS]

  it could be in your finger universe does [TS]

  not know where that thing has been MGM [TS]

  cr-v we could we could right now be a [TS]

  molecule in the thumb Oh some giant [TS]

  being who has his thumb up do you think [TS]

  kids still get tripped out when they [TS]

  think about things like that when you go [TS]

  through that like stony like first time [TS]

  you really contemplate the idea of [TS]

  infinity the first time you wonder if [TS]

  we're all seeing this [TS]

  color green you think kids these [TS]

  millenniums you think they still have [TS]

  those kinds of reveries oh yeah I worry [TS]

  that they don't you have to you know I [TS]

  bet you get Netflix and you got the [TS]

  snapchat you know they don't have to [TS]

  contemplate things that are that are [TS]

  recursive and hurtful to the brain it's [TS]

  not you know I think that we didn't have [TS]

  them in the popular culture and so when [TS]

  you heard when you heard something like [TS]

  that in in Animal House [TS]

  well when Donald Sutherland is passing [TS]

  adjoin around and they're like you know [TS]

  it actually had the force of novelty [TS]

  sure and I think if you grew up you know [TS]

  soaked in stuff it would be a little bit [TS]

  harder to get to that place but [TS]

  absolutely the moment it actually occurs [TS]

  to you I think it still got to be like I [TS]

  have a terrible time blowin my [TS]

  daughter's mind I've tried so many times [TS]

  I've been I've been trying to get her [TS]

  freaked out about infinity for years and [TS]

  she still she still hasn't freaked out [TS]

  by it by infinity [TS]

  I mean I still struggle with with string [TS]

  theory think about it all the time and I [TS]

  just can't there's just some things I [TS]

  can't resolve yeah I mean does does P [TS]

  equal NP is a big question let's check [TS]

  reddit but we I mean you know multiple [TS]

  universes I mean you could sit and think [TS]

  about it at great length [TS]

  still still mind-blowing I think it's [TS]

  one reason I was so attracted I had very [TS]

  little exposure to philosophy before [TS]

  college and then I read up I read some [TS]

  existentialist stuff in my my gap year [TS]

  and I got very interested in philosophy [TS]

  because it seemed like kind of like you [TS]

  know universe in a finger with a [TS]

  graduate degree kind of thing like idea [TS]

  of epistemology was very fascinating to [TS]

  me like how do we know what we know but [TS]

  that would just turn my brain maybe I'm [TS]

  just a simple farm boy from Cincinnati [TS]

  but like that kind of thing would just [TS]

  bend my brain you you think therefore [TS]

  you are I did a paper on Descartes I [TS]

  remember had then the final paragraph is [TS]

  maybe second less paragraph it had this [TS]

  very memorable line [TS]

  so who is this guy we call God that's [TS]

  kind of work I was doing that you need [TS]

  you know don't put Descartes before day [TS]

  horse oh come on [TS]

  Oh God dad I really put that I put that [TS]

  in a paper oh no because so I had a [TS]

  professor who allowed us to be creative [TS]

  hmm and and I did eh this is in the [TS]

  history of ideas history of ideas and I [TS]

  did a song about Descartes like the [TS]

  style like Jonathan Richmond I think I [TS]

  could really get into it it was pretty [TS]

  good yeah we the the the other students [TS]

  were like yeah that's fun yeah yeah oh [TS]

  yeah you know there are a lot of things [TS]

  that that that constitute an education [TS]

  aren't there oh yeah don't don't let [TS]

  your school get in the way of your [TS]

  education oh thank you thank you don't [TS]

  let your ontology recapitulate your [TS]

  philosophy said the 30 year old guy the [TS]

  30 year old townie with the bong things [TS]

  change lessons that went here they my [TS]

  tape guy hey you want to buy my CD [TS]

  let me guess is it almost all reggae [TS]

  yeah I went to the I went to the women's [TS]

  March the other day and one of the great [TS]

  things about big marches I mean this is [TS]

  a while back sure this is a how many [TS]

  weeks ago at this point but uh but one [TS]

  of the great things about those rallies [TS]

  is that there is always a kind of [TS]

  there's always a sort of a gray area I [TS]

  don't I wouldn't personally consider it [TS]

  a gray area but some people clearly do [TS]

  where they want to use that opportunity [TS]

  to also pitch their their big program oh [TS]

  yes and every demonstration whatever is [TS]

  of any size I've ever been to you could [TS]

  maybe call them fringe characters but [TS]

  you can get you got people with a very [TS]

  important message and they're gonna use [TS]

  that as a platform yeah like you know in [TS]

  a big rally like that like of course the [TS]

  labor unions are there and they're [TS]

  saying you know we want you to support [TS]

  the labor union because we have a lot of [TS]

  women in the Union yes you know and and [TS]

  you can make a case like oh okay right [TS]

  this is a you know absolutely absolutely [TS]

  right it's still a co-optation of the [TS]

  idea but you can kind of go with them [TS]

  but there was there were a group of guys [TS]

  standing there all men by the way [TS]

  holding a banner that said support the [TS]

  freedom struggle of Palestinian women [TS]

  and then they had a bunch of material [TS]

  about how Israel was committing a [TS]

  genocide okay and it was like boom all [TS]

  right I mean maybe if there were some [TS]

  women that were holding that banner it [TS]

  might go a little bit further but it [TS]

  seems like he just tacked the word woman [TS]

  on to the end of that right sure yeah [TS]

  but they slather not some woman sauce [TS]

  they put some woman sauce on there and [TS]

  then there was a group that was like [TS]

  protecting the elephants especially the [TS]

  women voices like that's a that's a [TS]

  that's another iteration and then at a [TS]

  certain point oh my god I really just [TS]

  wanted to because there was a certain [TS]

  kind of corner where the March was [TS]

  turning that a lot of these people had [TS]

  had a raid and I just wanted I wanted to [TS]

  be in a kind of like knee-length [TS]

  leather car coat from Costco standing [TS]

  there going you want to check out my CD [TS]

  [Laughter] [TS]

  I'm so much respect for women I can only [TS]

  get it out on the Philips Compact this [TS]

  format it's all in there [TS]

  respect women women women are somebody [TS]

  sometimes they confuse but they know the [TS]

  news women break my heart and make me [TS]

  fight their women this episode of [TS]

  Roderick on the line is brought to you [TS]

  in part by Casper you can learn more [TS]

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  on the line and all the great shows yeah [TS]

  yeah you know it's it's true it shows [TS]

  you how fractured things are things are [TS]

  fractured things feel very fractured [TS]

  right now there [TS]

  so fractured a very fractured you [TS]

  remember a few problem with the [TS]

  Cochran's I remember how long ago it was [TS]

  and I was telling you I was telling you [TS]

  in the after show in the dark dark show [TS]

  show yeah through tour yeah you can't [TS]

  you can't you can't listen to dark [TS]

  Roderick on the line Roderick on the [TS]

  line after dark because it's only [TS]

  available to subscribers but but I was [TS]

  counseling you not to not to not to fret [TS]

  not to fret about the Congress not to [TS]

  fall not even to follow that story yeah [TS]

  but I know it's hard I know it's hard [TS]

  it's hard it's hard yeah what did you [TS]

  know okay so you went to this mark did [TS]

  you go to the big one last year last [TS]

  year I have a little bit of a [TS]

  complication that kept me out of the [TS]

  March okay but you went this year what [TS]

  are your impressions of the of the March [TS]

  once the March got going I was you know [TS]

  it's it's really exciting like there's a [TS]

  lot there's a lot about that March [TS]

  moving forward that felt exactly how you [TS]

  would hope it would feel empowered [TS]

  little girls with signs their dad made [TS]

  for them well you know there are those [TS]

  there's the there's the comedic aspect [TS]

  of it which is kind of fun is marching [TS]

  behind like several women that were [TS]

  wearing hardhats and they all had [TS]

  jackets on from the Carpenters Union and [TS]

  they weren't marching as part of a union [TS]

  they were just carpenters you had their [TS]

  hard hats on were like here we you know [TS]

  like fuck yeah this is exactly kind of [TS]

  the story that they're telling a story [TS]

  by their presence and that story is a [TS]

  story that that often gets neglected [TS]

  like you don't we don't as a we don't [TS]

  typically look at a construction site [TS]

  and and see into it it's just a [TS]

  buildings are getting built and we don't [TS]

  see who's there and we don't see the [TS]

  inner politics and when we talk about [TS]

  equal pay for equal work or we talk [TS]

  about the workplace we kind of typically [TS]

  picture of an office environment yeah [TS]

  but I mean also I mean at first I want [TS]

  to stipulate I am NOT making fun of [TS]

  these movements or of this March I mean [TS]

  merely groaning about the situation in [TS]

  life but you know you think about go [TS]

  back to Flashdance and was like oh it's [TS]

  a sexy lady with long hair who's a [TS]

  welder it was my back that kind of story [TS]

  you know I mean part of the part of the [TS]

  stop your story but part of it is that [TS]

  like it feels like so many of the [TS]

  amazing and wonderful and overdue [TS]

  changes that have happened in the last [TS]

  five to 15 years are widely adopted and [TS]

  loved by 90% of the people on our side [TS]

  of the aisle and so many of those [TS]

  changes are are so threatening as to be [TS]

  deniable to people on the other side of [TS]

  the aisle but this is a good example of [TS]

  one that I feel like there's no one in [TS]

  America on either side of the aisle [TS]

  ninety-eight percent of the people in [TS]

  America I think would look at one of [TS]

  these women in her heart hat with her [TS]

  Union jacket on and go yeah fuck yeah [TS]

  right there's no one in America anymore [TS]

  that thinks there shouldn't be female [TS]

  carpenters right and I think that [TS]

  everyone in you know the most [TS]

  conservative voter in Alabama is not [TS]

  going to I mean there there are gonna be [TS]

  people they're gonna be dicks and and [TS]

  like they're gonna be dicks who no [TS]

  matter what their political affiliation [TS]

  when a when a woman shows up to do the [TS]

  work on their kitchen they're gonna go [TS]

  oh a woman's doing this job you know [TS]

  they're and and they're gonna be dicks [TS]

  that are both men and women that do that [TS]

  I mean I'm sure that there are women [TS]

  that opened the door to their house and [TS]

  there's a woman carpenter standing there [TS]

  and they say oh I expected a man mm-hmm [TS]

  you know that kind of thing is just a [TS]

  sort of cultural like ignorant or not [TS]

  ignorance it's just a like a culture so [TS]

  probably the lack of exposure I mean [TS]

  like if you've got if you've got some [TS]

  Richard Scarry idea in your head from [TS]

  the late 1960s it's understandable that [TS]

  that's a little bit shocking it doesn't [TS]

  mean that you hate it but it's certainly [TS]

  at least be shocking [TS]

  Yeah right it's like lowly worm yeah [TS]

  shows up to do your kitchen work and [TS]

  you're like you're a girl worm whoo [TS]

  that's that mr. frumble drive she's got [TS]

  a lot of problems there are plenty of [TS]

  cops in Richards Gary's world I don't [TS]

  know why they don't but sergeant Murphy [TS]

  chases careless he literally rides a [TS]

  motorcycle onto a Plane full of people [TS]

  you're right you're right but but the [TS]

  other thing that I saw in this rally [TS]

  that I'm talking about just people that [TS]

  were marching very close to me there [TS]

  were two women in their 60s and they [TS]

  were both about five feet tall and they [TS]

  were at first not clearly a couple they [TS]

  were just too diminutive ladies in their [TS]

  60s but one of them is holding a small [TS]

  hand lettered sign that said that wasn't [TS]

  like us it wasn't even a sign it was [TS]

  just kind of like a piece of notebook [TS]

  paper that she had written on and [TS]

  laminated and it said we're not going [TS]

  back and as the as the March progressed [TS]

  I realized oh my god they're they're [TS]

  married and they give every indication [TS]

  of having been together for 40 years you [TS]

  know they're they have the comfort with [TS]

  one another that just is like it seems [TS]

  like they've probably been together for [TS]

  a long long time and they're not [TS]

  demonstrative they're not even really [TS]

  holding hands they're just walking [TS]

  together with this sign we're not going [TS]

  back and it was you know so so powerful [TS]

  and I and I honestly believe having [TS]

  traveled as much as I've been lucky to [TS]

  do in America and around the world that [TS]

  most people on either side of the [TS]

  political aisle confronted with these [TS]

  two actual human beings are not going to [TS]

  be against it the people that are [TS]

  against gay marriage are against it [TS]

  because they're against an idea that [TS]

  they think and they're against a notion [TS]

  that we're trying to cram it down their [TS]

  throats or I feel it feels like a like a [TS]

  threat to their [TS]

  idea of what a family is which which [TS]

  they would say d legitimizes there it's [TS]

  again it's like Ghostbusters it's like [TS]

  you're ruining my childhood by being [TS]

  married right but if they were living in [TS]

  a place where they knew these two and [TS]

  there are couples like this in Alabama [TS]

  just like there are in Seattle a hundred [TS]

  percent when confronted with actual [TS]

  people pretty much everybody with the [TS]

  exception of a few crazy zealots is [TS]

  gonna look at them and go oh well I mean [TS]

  I make an exception for my for my aunt [TS]

  and her friend you know like and it's [TS]

  not especially because they're they're [TS]

  not too vocal about it maybe yeah sort [TS]

  of like well there's well there's this [TS]

  one guy I work with who's really nice [TS]

  and he's nearing retirement age and I'm [TS]

  pretty sure he's you know special but he [TS]

  could he gets a pass because he's real [TS]

  low-key about it it's not in my face [TS]

  about it and it's not the perfect world [TS]

  that we would that we I in the left like [TS]

  idealize where everyone is absolutely [TS]

  like completely forward-facing about who [TS]

  they are and accepted broadly by [TS]

  everyone you know it it is a kind of on [TS]

  the right side of the aisle there is [TS]

  this there's all this tremendous kind of [TS]

  like what we what we think of as a [TS]

  prehistoric social thinking but [TS]

  confronted by actual people yeah pretty [TS]

  much everybody is like you cannot deny a [TS]

  thing like that you can't look at them [TS]

  and say to their face like no you're not [TS]

  you should not be entitled to this you [TS]

  should not be entitled to this happiness [TS]

  you do it's nobody would ever stand in [TS]

  front of those people I mean the way you [TS]

  get the idea some kind of Richard [TS]

  Spencer type like yelling at them but [TS]

  like after having a ten minute fifteen [TS]

  minute conversation maybe you're on a [TS]

  plane or something like that you would [TS]

  never you would it would be a hard [TS]

  harder person to turn to them and say [TS]

  well I understand what you're trying to [TS]

  do here but this is antithetical to [TS]

  everything that America is and I think [TS]

  you're evil yeah I mean and you do see [TS]

  that I mean there are definitely parents [TS]

  that reject their own children fewer and [TS]

  farther between [TS]

  I think what's I think what's crazy [TS]

  about Trump I know we never talk about [TS]

  politics [TS]

  I think what's crazy is that he has [TS]

  finally given the lie to the idea that [TS]

  the that conservative politically [TS]

  conservative people are the scolds and [TS]

  the moralizing like finger wag they're [TS]

  gonna hold privately and publicly [TS]

  they're gonna they have a standard that [TS]

  they will hold people to for a long time [TS]

  you would see that played out in terms [TS]

  of like what you have to make this cake [TS]

  you know you know you don't have to make [TS]

  this cake for gay people or you do not [TS]

  have to provide women's health care [TS]

  services because right I mean there's [TS]

  there's those sorts of things but then [TS]

  when you see what's happening with the [TS]

  fairly well documented allegations [TS]

  against the president it just doesn't [TS]

  seem to matter and Mike Pence is totally [TS]

  cool with it it just doesn't matter [TS]

  right I mean it's not like it's not even [TS]

  that I had that Trump had relationships [TS]

  with sex workers while he while his wife [TS]

  was pregnant we had a four month old son [TS]

  duh Trump is famous for for riding on [TS]

  that private jet [TS]

  but with that pedophile guy yeah who you [TS]

  know would like teenagers like and I [TS]

  mean he was the source of a lot of the [TS]

  New York Post stories about Marla maples [TS]

  I mean he was the one that encouraged [TS]

  her to go on say was the best best sex [TS]

  I've ever had he drives in that [TS]

  environment of people thinking he's a [TS]

  very competent horndog but I think it's [TS]

  really interesting because during the [TS]

  Clinton years when when Bill Clinton was [TS]

  being pounded for his for his like [TS]

  dalliance ah's and his indiscretions and [TS]

  his predatory behavior we I think [TS]

  assumed that that was being motivated by [TS]

  this religious right that we've been [TS]

  talking about for for 40 years and that [TS]

  they were that they were pretty and they [TS]

  were pursuing this out of a sense of [TS]

  this sort of moral like overactive moral [TS]

  indignation about post moral majority [TS]

  whether you agreed with them or not and [TS]

  I happened very much not to agree with [TS]

  them you'd at least given the creditors [TS]

  well you know whether or not this is [TS]

  something that they enjoy doing they [TS]

  feel by their faith and ethics they are [TS]

  obligated to call these things out on [TS]

  anybody where they see it right right [TS]

  it's a good it's a mr. kind of mission [TS]

  and that gave some clarity to the [TS]

  division between left and right because [TS]

  we on the left could look at them and [TS]

  say and see like okay they are bound by [TS]

  a code that includes their religion it [TS]

  includes their culture and it is [TS]

  internally consistent so they are they [TS]

  are an understandable and worthy [TS]

  adversary even if we don't agree I mean [TS]

  we don't agree with a lot of the [TS]

  fundamental premises but they are acting [TS]

  at least they're not inconsistent as far [TS]

  as we can see I'm avoiding the word [TS]

  hypothetical but but at least at least [TS]

  on the face of it they may be in prison [TS]

  I utterly disagree with them but there [TS]

  was an internal consistency to their [TS]

  their mass hattery [TS]

  but it also contextualized us right [TS]

  because as live liberals we were [TS]

  progressive we were it [TS]

  empathetic we were we were the ones that [TS]

  were open minded and now or maybe [TS]

  relativistic there's another word [TS]

  relativistic sure you can see you would [TS]

  see the context in something and this [TS]

  liberal arts II thing of saying like [TS]

  well yes but yes but so we wouldn't [TS]

  necessarily see it as a zero no one [TS]

  right and we were multicultural we were [TS]

  able to say like well we you know we [TS]

  need to incorporate things from around [TS]

  the world and sometimes these cultural [TS]

  differences can be advantageous you know [TS]

  it was a kind of m'as how we saw the [TS]

  social aspect of left and right and that [TS]

  wasn't always the case you know back in [TS]

  the back before World War two back [TS]

  before the civil rights movement the [TS]

  Republican Party was mostly focused on [TS]

  economics and they had a pretty liberal [TS]

  view about what a person should be able [TS]

  to do in the [TS]

  to their own home I'm from a certain [TS]

  libertarian standpoint it was a temple [TS]

  yeah and it was the Democrats that were [TS]

  all about segregation and they were all [TS]

  about you know the Democrats before [TS]

  World War two were not like socially [TS]

  progressive looks sort of the opposite [TS]

  mm-hmm but now we're in a situation [TS]

  where the where the right side of the [TS]

  aisle has pretty much for the most part [TS]

  said you know although we're Christians [TS]

  and although we you know we believe in [TS]

  God and country we think Trump's doing a [TS]

  great job and although he is like a [TS]

  coke-fueled like prostitute abusing like [TS]

  I mean he's basically he personifies [TS]

  everything that we would normally hate [TS]

  disparity at the late 80s yeah we just [TS]

  love what he's doing he's just sticking [TS]

  it he's sticking it to the Liberals and [TS]

  that's what we love but what's crazy is [TS]

  the Left have become the scolds like we [TS]

  are we are in an era right now where the [TS]

  left is extremely moralizing and very [TS]

  very much like driven by a by a kind of [TS]

  collective energy that is you know [TS]

  that's using shame and using a lot of [TS]

  the sort of things that we would have 40 [TS]

  years ago called moral majority tactics [TS]

  I guess in service of a different [TS]

  ideology but but but it's it's a very [TS]

  strange role reversal because that's the [TS]

  thing when I went back to my high school [TS]

  reunion in Anchorage right before the [TS]

  election and I talked to a bunch of my [TS]

  pals who were all golf pros and [TS]

  snowmobile salesmen and and diehard sort [TS]

  of Trump people yeah they were like you [TS]

  don't you don't see what's coming bro [TS]

  and I was like yeah I see what's coming [TS]

  a Hillary Clinton administration where [TS]

  the world moves into the future and they [TS]

  were like no no no that's not what's [TS]

  gonna happen Trump's gonna win and I was [TS]

  like there's no way in a million years [TS]

  Trump's gonna win he didn't accuse [TS]

  anyone yeah and they were like no no you [TS]

  don't see you don't get it you don't see [TS]

  what's happening and in talking to them [TS]

  over the course of a long reunion [TS]

  weekend I realized oh they think they're [TS]

  the fun ones they think they think [TS]

  they're hilarious they think they're the [TS]

  ones that know how to party they think [TS]

  they are the ones who have the real [TS]

  temperature of what America is all about [TS]

  the sort of Ted Nugent version of what's [TS]

  fun and cool and they looked at me and [TS]

  my culture I mean they know I'm fun [TS]

  right but they look at that liberalism [TS]

  and they think you guys aren't fun you [TS]

  don't have fun anymore you just are so [TS]

  uptight and you're so you know this this [TS]

  careless caricature of the left as being [TS]

  sort of what we used to say about the [TS]

  moral majority just like no fun and [TS]

  caught up in in our cane and archaic [TS]

  ideas about what people are and I was [TS]

  just like that was kind of that was kind [TS]

  of when I got off Twitter I realized [TS]

  like oh shit I don't know anything [TS]

  anymore [TS]

  I'm in the upside down now yeah I heard [TS]

  something on a political podcast I was [TS]

  listening to you this morning and guy [TS]

  said something that I thought was it's [TS]

  one of those things where once you you [TS]

  can't can't unhear it get such a useful [TS]

  paradigm is there are certain kinds of [TS]

  issues where people rarely go back to [TS]

  their original feeling people tend to [TS]

  only go one way and he said he was [TS]

  talking in particular about daca and how [TS]

  like once you know these people who are [TS]

  daca recipients and like once you've [TS]

  once you've met them once you've talked [TS]

  to them [TS]

  you're very rarely going to become more [TS]

  strident about thinking they should be [TS]

  thrown out of the country you know I [TS]

  mean and [TS]

  he also used the example of gay marriage [TS]

  where honestly if a big part of it and [TS]

  in addition to certainly obviously I [TS]

  mean this is sounds so stupid but stuff [TS]

  like you know maybe Ellen DeGeneres but [TS]

  stuff like seeing more gay people like [TS]

  on TV and knowing more gay people were [TS]

  out there that weren't dangerous [TS]

  pedophiles that was certainly a part of [TS]

  it but another part of it was like once [TS]

  you it isn't like you know once you meet [TS]

  two women who've been together since the [TS]

  1960s yeah and it can be and are very [TS]

  smart and charming you don't go oh boy [TS]

  you know this makes me even madder about [TS]

  this you know I mean there aren't that [TS]

  many people who start out Pro gay [TS]

  marriage and then go the other way [TS]

  there aren't them people who start out [TS]

  Pro daca and go back the other way I [TS]

  don't I don't have a huge filter for [TS]

  this it's a two-hour old idea to me but [TS]

  I'm really interested of this idea like [TS]

  how many issues are there like that [TS]

  we're once people get enough exposure to [TS]

  the actual people they look at the thing [TS]

  really differently I'm reminded of that [TS]

  peanuts comic where Linus is arguing [TS]

  with Lucy and he says I love humanity [TS]

  it's people that I hate I I think I [TS]

  think that's absolutely true and I think [TS]

  it is about abstract thinking you know [TS]

  the once you are once you're capable of [TS]

  seeing things at one abstraction which [TS]

  by which I mean like not the people [TS]

  immediately in front of you but you meet [TS]

  you meet that couple that's been [TS]

  together since the 60s and then [TS]

  extrapolate that to imagine that there [TS]

  are more of those that level of [TS]

  abstraction because we here in southern [TS]

  Washington you know that there was that [TS]

  McSweeney's article the other day that [TS]

  that parodied the the journalists that [TS]

  are like going around talking to Trump [TS]

  was just literally the next thing I was [TS]

  going to say yes but there was one of [TS]

  those here in Washington where some [TS]

  reporter went down to the conservative [TS]

  like southwestern corner of Washington [TS]

  where they grow a lot of cranberries and [TS]

  said like you know how does it feel down [TS]

  here now that you know now that we're [TS]

  cracking down on immigrants and the [TS]

  sheriff and almost everybody they talked [TS]

  to was [TS]

  like well we want to crack down on [TS]

  immigrants because they are their [TS]

  rapists and criminals coming into the [TS]

  country but what that law has done is it [TS]

  like they came and got my neighbor Pablo [TS]

  who's a great dude and he's he's gonna [TS]

  raper he's been here four years he was [TS]

  like he was invaluable to the community [TS]

  and then they came and got those guys [TS]

  that have been working on them but they [TS]

  might say every single talking point [TS]

  that everybody on the Left has been [TS]

  saying right I mean right down to like [TS]

  like this like this polish doctor in [TS]

  Michigan who doesn't know polish because [TS]

  he's been here since he was three right [TS]

  that's like you how could you send it [TS]

  back there there's not even any place to [TS]

  send him back to he's never been there [TS]

  and you're like yeah that's that sucks [TS]

  that's kind of why we think this is a [TS]

  bad idea they know but everybody has [TS]

  their Pablo right but they don't extend [TS]

  it right they don't extend it to the [TS]

  abstraction of of and that's why [TS]

  statistics are so interesting like I I [TS]

  follow this guy on Twitter named Max [TS]

  roser ro ser who is a statistician and [TS]

  he really stays kind of above politics [TS]

  he just puts in numbers [TS]

  I think he's German and he you know not [TS]

  to not to stereotype no but he's a [TS]

  German statistician mm-hmm and and he is [TS]

  you know he's always posting these [TS]

  graphs and sort of very interesting [TS]

  takes on on things just just crunching [TS]

  the numbers but you look at the numbers [TS]

  and it's like well I mean my mom sent me [TS]

  something the other day that was like [TS]

  immigrants from sub-saharan Africa have [TS]

  such a greater percentage of graduate [TS]

  degrees I mean they're like a moderator [TS]

  college graduation rate then people who [TS]

  are born in the United States yeah and [TS]

  it's just impossible to argue with the [TS]

  statistics but it is but again that is [TS]

  an abstraction that it's I think much [TS]

  easier for people to [TS]

  - to see the abstraction in the other [TS]

  direction which is well I watch cops [TS]

  every week and every single person they [TS]

  pull over an arrest is black used to [TS]

  watch that show therefore every criminal [TS]

  in America is black right because that's [TS]

  what's on cops and that's that's much [TS]

  easier to apprehend then wait a minute [TS]

  the people that are immigrating to the [TS]

  United States from other countries are [TS]

  the best educated and best qualified [TS]

  people because it's really hard to [TS]

  immigrate to America you have to put up [TS]

  with so much shit [TS]

  it's insane yeah and you know and even [TS]

  people that are entering the country [TS]

  illegally are people who are aspiring [TS]

  you know they are people that are [TS]

  seeking something great and not people [TS]

  that are complacent or lazy or dumb you [TS]

  know [TS]

  nobody makes it all the way to America [TS]

  and gets a shitty job from wherever [TS]

  they're coming from because they are [TS]

  just lazy you know they're enterprising [TS]

  but it's you know I don't know speaking [TS]

  as someone who's a liberal it's very [TS]

  hard for me not to feel like it's not [TS]

  just that my views are better it's that [TS]

  my views are more accurate and that's [TS]

  all maybe that at least in your own head [TS]

  is slightly better tested well or I mean [TS]

  just just there's so much there's just [TS]

  so much reckoning going on about [TS]

  strangers there's just so much reckoning [TS]

  going on about millions of people who [TS]

  are disadvantaged culturally in a way [TS]

  that so many of that 32% are 36% are not [TS]

  and yet they have found some way to find [TS]

  a grievant in every cultural improvement [TS]

  in the last 50 years every every time [TS]

  somebody who's not them gets something [TS]

  it's a zero-sum game like everything [TS]

  everything that somebody who has always [TS]

  been treated like shit for their and [TS]

  our life gets is necessarily one less [TS]

  thing that they get in their mind that [TS]

  tends to be the yeah it tends to be the [TS]

  feeling but then like today oh sorry [TS]

  a couple couple weeks ago the president [TS]

  has decided you know because he's saving [TS]

  coal so now he's gonna put a tariff on [TS]

  imports of solar energy things so energy [TS]

  one of the one of the bright spots if [TS]

  you like to coin a pun [TS]

  one of the bright spots in growth like [TS]

  one in five new jobs suppose something [TS]

  like that as it is in solar it's going [TS]

  way way up while Cole's was going way [TS]

  way down and now they're making it more [TS]

  costly to have this this huge exploding [TS]

  growth growth area that actually could [TS]

  benefit the people who still think [TS]

  they're gonna be back in the mind any [TS]

  day now but and that's an example of a [TS]

  band I think is really intriguing about [TS]

  the cultural divide that we're [TS]

  experiencing right now which is that I [TS]

  think that there are a lot of people in [TS]

  America that will celebrate that event [TS]

  based exclusively on this idea that it's [TS]

  a it's a big middle finger to the [TS]

  hippies and I mean I drove across the [TS]

  country a couple of years ago when I [TS]

  bought my suburban which admittedly is a [TS]

  hilariously like old janky American [TS]

  truck and through the whole center of [TS]

  the country I encountered many many [TS]

  times those guys who are burning coal [TS]

  which is they they put a giant [TS]

  smokestack on their diesel truck and [TS]

  they adjust B the mixture so that when [TS]

  they slam on the gas it just sends huge [TS]

  black clouds of smoke out of their [TS]

  tailpipes with no purpose other than to [TS]

  give you that Ted Nugent fuck you and [TS]

  they're not driving those trucks in the [TS]

  middle of San Francisco they're driving [TS]

  them in Nebraska they're saying fuck you [TS]

  to the idea of a liberal [TS]

  there aren't any around them they're [TS]

  just doing it as like as a middle finger [TS]

  to people who aren't even watching and [TS]

  that that conviction that that strong [TS]

  strong feeling that the real enemy is is [TS]

  this caricature of someone kind of not [TS]

  unlike you or I but certainly like we're [TS]

  we are closer or more adjacent to this [TS]

  caricature than we are to the to to like [TS]

  the audience and a Darius Rucker concert [TS]

  but but this idea of someone with a [TS]

  college degree who thinks they're [TS]

  smarter than you who wants to quote [TS]

  unquote ram down your throats these [TS]

  ideas that that really have nothing to [TS]

  do with the fact that you get along [TS]

  pretty well with your gay neighbors but [TS]

  have everything to do with the idea that [TS]

  we are we have a vision which is of this [TS]

  to this future universe where where [TS]

  there's no manufacturing in America [TS]

  anymore that it's all been outsourced [TS]

  and the government is in charge of [TS]

  everything take your guns away take your [TS]

  guns away except that the government [TS]

  allows you to do whatever you want [TS]

  include including be a pedophile or a or [TS]

  like sex with animals or whatever it is [TS]

  that they extend this this criticism out [TS]

  to you know like this weird this weird [TS]

  idea of a liberal as someone who both [TS]

  wants to have complete like lawlessness [TS]

  on one side what they considered [TS]

  lawlessness on one side of the world [TS]

  they want to be this like Caligula n-- [TS]

  Bacchanalia on the one side even as [TS]

  they're taking away everything that [TS]

  gives your life meaning enjoy [TS]

  right so you're no longer allowed to [TS]

  worship your god you're no longer [TS]

  allowed to salute your flag we don't [TS]

  support the troops we don't allow you to [TS]

  have guns we tax all your money away to [TS]

  give it to undeserving poor people the [TS]

  abortion having trans people abortion [TS]

  having trans people who are just living [TS]

  on welfare and this is the vision of the [TS]

  world that we that that that they [TS]

  perceive us desiring and a lot of us are [TS]

  dupes right we are leftist dupes of we [TS]

  have taken the red pill we haven't taken [TS]

  the red pill that's right the Jews are [TS]

  controlling our government and and we [TS]

  are just like enthrall we're in this [TS]

  kind of days of of almost like romantic [TS]

  thrall to the idea of inclusiveness that [TS]

  is going to create a world where we're [TS]

  under Sharia law so it's almost like [TS]

  some kind of like a 50s movie where [TS]

  there's a there's a working ranch and [TS]

  some sissy dandy in a suit comes to [TS]

  visit and then wants to tell them how to [TS]

  run a ranch mm-hmm right or like yeah is [TS]

  sitting in the sitting in the scenic [TS]

  carriage Fanning himself with that with [TS]

  a lace hanky and then telling you how to [TS]

  run the ranch while he's sitting on his [TS]

  ass mining Bitcoin well you know in a [TS]

  way it's almost it's closer to the [TS]

  character of the environmental [TS]

  protection guy in Ghostbusters movie [TS]

  that movie you know yeah he's the only [TS]

  good guy this man has no dick when you [TS]

  watch that film you hear everything [TS]

  about it is like this guy is the worst [TS]

  version of a Carter Administration [TS]

  bureaucrat mm-hm and the the only way he [TS]

  makes money is by causing trouble and [TS]

  hardship for hardworking Americans for [TS]

  hardworking Americans who are just [TS]

  trying to bust just trying to [TS]

  to go so it makes them feel good and [TS]

  it's a politically a weird movie because [TS]

  though because the Ghostbusters are our [TS]

  academics and they're like [TS]

  devil-may-care but they're really I mean [TS]

  when you look at it now sure there they [TS]

  are you know they're kind of politically [TS]

  pretty Trumpy in terms of of how they [TS]

  approach dealing you know dealing with [TS]

  government people I'm watching almost [TS]

  any thriller from the last 30 years so [TS]

  the bad guys always the administrator [TS]

  right well no but also just the good [TS]

  guys I mean certainly you go would you [TS]

  go back to something like Charles [TS]

  Bronson Klee nice wait but I'm talking [TS]

  even like I rewatched taken which is a [TS]

  movie that I like a lot I hadn't watched [TS]

  it since the last election and I just [TS]

  watched it the other night and I was [TS]

  like wow this is really it's kind of a [TS]

  testament to how dads are right and and [TS]

  by any means necessary we do what we [TS]

  need to do because daughter it's like I [TS]

  mean it's really it is it is in some [TS]

  ways very much like a death wish [TS]

  kind of moving in a lot of ways I mean [TS]

  you mean just like that they're just [TS]

  like the the non authoritarian what's [TS]

  the word I'm looking for [TS]

  but like oh like in that movies just [TS]

  like he keeps worn everything taken no [TS]

  is this is this retired like ops guy is [TS]

  you know now he's away from his his wife [TS]

  and daughter the daughters gonna go to [TS]

  Europe and he's like no no you can't go [TS]

  and if you go you got to take this phone [TS]

  and answer my calls a spoiler alert she [TS]

  gets abducted he has to go and find her [TS]

  they've now drugged her and turned her [TS]

  into a prostitute she and her friend and [TS]

  he's got to go rescue her from all these [TS]

  Eastern European baddies and of course [TS]

  he just beats it's great movie he beats [TS]

  the shit out of everybody kills [TS]

  everybody and saves them and then like [TS]

  you were shown that once a fraud dad [TS]

  always knew what was right and finally [TS]

  that violence that he has had inside of [TS]

  him all that time was there for a good [TS]

  reason [TS]

  yeah yeah I mean that's the best lesson [TS]

  to be gleaned that's the cookie cutter [TS]

  thriller lesson right the yeah the this [TS]

  the the quiet Stern dad has just been [TS]

  pushed a little too far yeah had had the [TS]

  truth about the world the whole time [TS]

  and I bet that libertarianism combined [TS]

  with that sort of I guess what what now [TS]

  we would just describe with with no [TS]

  other with no other conditions we would [TS]

  just call it patriarchy or patriarchal [TS]

  mentality I mean that's like it's a [TS]

  ribbon through everything yeah and there [TS]

  there was a time until recently where [TS]

  where our take on that was a lot more [TS]

  complex than it is now and it doesn't [TS]

  feel like this is a time when we can [TS]

  afford to be complex this is another [TS]

  thing that has caused me to to feel [TS]

  personally like it this is just a time [TS]

  for me to sit out and and it's because [TS]

  it's very hard for me to look at things [TS]

  and not look at them and try to see the [TS]

  complexity in them and when you want to [TS]

  talk at least publicly now about ideas [TS]

  that are complex you're immediately [TS]

  challenged because it doesn't because [TS]

  complexity just doesn't want a [TS]

  revolutionary yeah that's right if we're [TS]

  living in a bicameral world now that [TS]

  feels very black and white and so you [TS]

  can't say like you can't really approach [TS]

  anything at least publicly at least in a [TS]

  public-facing way without taking a [TS]

  pretty dogmatic side and I just can't I [TS]

  just can't swallow it but yeah but you [TS]

  know in in our history a lot of the [TS]

  things that we look at and say that's [TS]

  what is American you know that's what [TS]

  made made us exceptional that is what we [TS]

  have always talked about as the American [TS]

  spirit and it isn't it isn't [TS]

  inextricably connected to white [TS]

  supremacy or to patriarchy there there [TS]

  are attitudes that are distinctively [TS]

  American that we have made us proud for [TS]

  200 years and that those ideas are like [TS]

  individuality individualism I guess more [TS]

  than individuality and that can-do [TS]

  spirit and [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  I mean all that all that sort of go [TS]

  get'em USA rah-rah stuff but there's a [TS]

  lot of there's a lot interesting about [TS]

  it there's a lot that's true about it [TS]

  and and I think on the right side of the [TS]

  aisle they feel like they are the ob [TS]

  inheritors or the protectors of some of [TS]

  those enshrined ideas and and on the [TS]

  Left I mean the you know there are a lot [TS]

  of liberal Patriots and I and I include [TS]

  myself like when I see people on the [TS]

  left say America is a garbage country [TS]

  and always has been I'm like I'm sorry [TS]

  you're wrong like you're just deeply [TS]

  profoundly wrong and that might feel [TS]

  good to say and that might feel like a [TS]

  like year on their side of the room I [TS]

  mean Jimmy but it was an evolving [TS]

  garbage fire like the the strides were [TS]

  taken every few years where things got a [TS]

  little better in one way no they were [TS]

  not always good and sometimes it does [TS]

  take a miniature revolution but that's [TS]

  that's what is it the long arc of [TS]

  history right is that like things really [TS]

  have gotten better in many quantifiable [TS]

  ways for a lot of people and it's taken [TS]

  a long time to get around to other [TS]

  people who need that and that progress [TS]

  was being made for a time it's it's that [TS]

  progress is still being it's weirdly [TS]

  Puttanesca though to find this both [TS]

  sides ISM and going oh well you know [TS]

  unless you were this kind of person so [TS]

  yeah that was true but like we're [TS]

  working on that that actually is that [TS]

  actually is getting better it's yeah [TS]

  it's I mean I know that's super easy for [TS]

  me to say but I think there's evidence [TS]

  out there that until fairly recently [TS]

  things really were on a pretty [TS]

  interesting upward incline and now now I [TS]

  think it's just a waiting I mean hate to [TS]

  cut to the chase but a lot of there's [TS]

  just no demographics King demographics [TS]

  game it's just a matter of waiting to [TS]

  age out the assholes well it is but I [TS]

  mean I don't think it's easy for you to [TS]

  say I think it is I think it's a [TS]

  challenge to remind ourselves that if [TS]

  you watch the news every day and if you [TS]

  see you know if you see the bad things [TS]

  that are being reported in the way that [TS]

  the in the way that they are like yeah [TS]

  this feels like a time where we're [TS]

  falling back or whether it [TS]

  evil is ascendant but actually things [TS]

  are getting better everyday in everyway [TS]

  and the you know the rule of law is [TS]

  gonna triumph and I mean what you don't [TS]

  think of is ten years ago all the things [TS]

  that all the terrible things that were [TS]

  happening all the people that were [TS]

  getting deported all survived 1968 we [TS]

  can survive almost anything well sure [TS]

  would survive 1985 but I mean I think [TS]

  yeah good you're breaking up a little [TS]

  bit oh I'm sorry [TS]

  hello hey are you BitTorrent hello hello [TS]

  I hear you do you know I'm I hear you I [TS]

  think you fire me yeah keep going I'll [TS]

  put a marker here and take this out okay [TS]

  I think you're all right [TS]

  I just I mean I believe in the American [TS]

  experiment I don't believe that the [TS]

  United States is a trash fire I think if [TS]

  you go back to 1780 [TS]

  and you look at every other nation on [TS]

  earth and compare our founding to theirs [TS]

  or to their status then and if you go [TS]

  back to 1900 if you go back to 1865 if [TS]

  you go anywhere in history and do a line [TS]

  by line comparison to what was happening [TS]

  in the United States you're gonna find [TS]

  that there aren't very many places that [TS]

  you can look at and say oh wow the US [TS]

  was really evil compared to right I mean [TS]

  the United Kingdom abolished slavery a [TS]

  lot sooner than America did but sooner [TS]

  by a factor of 40 years like it's not [TS]

  like it's not like Britain had outlawed [TS]

  slavery in 1500 and we were some kind of [TS]

  South Africa that persisted like it was [TS]

  an evolving process and you know to look [TS]

  back at the history of American say that [TS]

  we're we have blood on our hands is only [TS]

  to fail to look back at the history of [TS]

  the world and see that everyone has [TS]

  blood on their hands that no one there's [TS]

  no nation on earth that is absolved if [TS]

  the nation of Belgium continued to [TS]

  exploit their colonies in Africa until [TS]

  the fifties and exploit them in ways [TS]

  that would would you know burn your [TS]

  eyebrows oh is that like Congo yeah it's [TS]

  a dozen colony yeah the Congo which is [TS]

  an enormous the the entire Central [TS]

  Africa and they you know they were I [TS]

  mean they were brutal there but nobody [TS]

  looks at Belgium and says like oh what a [TS]

  knee I mean I guess the Belgians do and [TS]

  people in Europe that know that story [TS]

  but the whole idea that like America is [TS]

  a terrible place it's just it's just [TS]

  wrong we have been in we have been [TS]

  setting the tempo for 200 years for the [TS]

  extension and expansion of rights to the [TS]

  greatest number of people and political [TS]

  rights and social evolution like it's [TS]

  been happening here and other people [TS]

  have other countries have been following [TS]

  in our wake and I know there are a lot [TS]

  of Europeans who want to who want to [TS]

  point to their their own country's [TS]

  contributions to that but I think you [TS]

  would have a hard time making a case [TS]

  that certainly that that many countries [TS]

  in Western Europe have been working on [TS]

  that project any earlier than about 1960 [TS]

  you know what I mean like I mean so and [TS]

  and the United Kingdom obviously like a [TS]

  separate they have a sort of separate [TS]

  dispensation but they're it's not like [TS]

  they've been a liberal democracy this [TS]

  whole time but you know it's I'm just [TS]

  I'm rehashing something that everybody [TS]

  has said every day for over a year now [TS]

  but the part the part and why I've read [TS]

  about Congress in particular is that you [TS]

  know whether or not what James Buchanan [TS]

  you know Herbert Hoover warren g harding [TS]

  you know you got you got these [TS]

  characters that you run into the maybe [TS]

  aren't the best example of American [TS]

  exceptionalism but like by and large [TS]

  most people who were in the White House [TS]

  at least bought the best lies about you [TS]

  got it you got to bring Harding into [TS]

  this at least most most people whether [TS]

  or not Bill Clinton is the best human [TS]

  being or [TS]

  you know George I mean I'm not here to [TS]

  rehabilitate the reputation of george w [TS]

  bush but boy by comparison but i mean at [TS]

  least i mean george w bush may have been [TS]

  a not very bright dry drunk but i think [TS]

  in his heart he probably believed a lot [TS]

  of the better truths and and some of the [TS]

  more interesting lies about america that [TS]

  let's we'll be able to get through it [TS]

  from week to week and certainly think [TS]

  brock obama believed it big time do you [TS]

  remember two years ago we still said [TS]

  things like george bush was the worst [TS]

  president i know i know two years and [TS]

  now he just seems like uh if we could [TS]

  only go back to to a day when the [TS]

  president knew which side of his body [TS]

  his heart was on right right but but [TS]

  that's on the one hand though you've got [TS]

  somebody in there who clearly i mean [TS]

  setting aside all the narcissism and all [TS]

  that kind of stuff but it's somebody who [TS]

  clearly does not like the actual the [TS]

  real stuff that has made America great [TS]

  and has no respect for the agreed upon [TS]

  lies that made America pretty good he [TS]

  just doesn't care he's fine to burn it [TS]

  all down I'm even gonna set aside the [TS]

  mental stuff for now but just even just [TS]

  the ability to like as they say you know [TS]

  he's gonna be persuaded by the last you [TS]

  know general that he talked to as far as [TS]

  what he thinks from now on that's not [TS]

  bad enough like I actually think we [TS]

  could survive that fine if the check on [TS]

  that should be people who know better in [TS]

  Congress never side you're on and the [TS]

  fact that this is I mean I understand [TS]

  the whole basis of there's a reason they [TS]

  call it politics it's not Paul a friend [TS]

  like I get that but like there's just [TS]

  there's something so upsetting to me [TS]

  about how you brought to you in part by [TS]

  squarespace you can learn more about [TS]

  Squarespace right now by going to [TS] I'm a huge fan of [TS]

  Squarespace as a listener of this show [TS]

  you are using Squarespace right now [TS]

  because that is where we host the [TS]

  Roderick on the line podcast thank you [TS]

  to Squarespace it's not just for podcast [TS]

  there are so many things you can do with [TS]

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  with Squarespace so please right now go [TS]

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  domain our thanks to Squarespace for [TS]

  supporting roderick on the line and all [TS]

  the great shows you know you just keep [TS]

  hoping you know you guys you know what [TS]

  is it I posted up I posted a really cool [TS]

  painting of Cthulhu the other day with [TS]

  two guys in a rowboat running away from [TS]

  it and the New Yorker stock caption I [TS]

  gave to it was well that's not diagnosed [TS]

  from a distance it's like how how how [TS]

  far is it gonna go before we say this is [TS]

  I mean is it gives it gives it the worst [TS]

  thing that keeps us all up but is it [TS]

  gonna be little Rocket Man shooting at [TS]

  us what's it gonna be before people go [TS]

  dude you got a fucking toilet down like [TS]

  you've got away please learn to pretend [TS]

  like you're the fucking president and [TS]

  like whoo there's just nobody doing that [TS]

  and and that and so I guess what I'm [TS]

  trying to say is it like I am NOT here [TS]

  to whitewash and I choose that word [TS]

  carefully whitewash over the very [TS]

  problematic history of the United States [TS]

  but like there is us there is a self [TS]

  fixing nature to America that takes a [TS]

  long time that I do believe in I don't [TS]

  know if I'm always right but I do at [TS]

  least believe in that it's just that I [TS]

  don't believe that's happening right now [TS]

  and just even just look at the EPA [TS]

  people are saying it might take 30 years [TS]

  to undo what's already happened to the [TS]

  EPA there's stuff like that that is just [TS]

  like at a time when everything's just [TS]

  the environment is just crumbling and [TS]

  the numbers are there for all of this [TS]

  stuff and nobody's standing up I'm sorry [TS]

  I'm just screaming into the wind that's [TS]

  like it's so maddening to me that there [TS]

  are not the everybo keeps talk about the [TS]

  grown-ups in the room well you know you [TS]

  got 100 grown-ups over here and over 400 [TS]

  on this other side like why why aren't [TS]

  they being the grown-ups why aren't they [TS]

  it's because well some of them some of [TS]

  them benefit greatly by being able to [TS]

  not get this guy mad at them on the [TS]

  internet and then there are other people [TS]

  I guess they just they just don't have [TS]

  the political will or votes to be able [TS]

  to do anything of substance but like [TS]

  seriously like what does it gonna take [TS]

  you know to get anywhere to with near [TS]

  back to where we could be to just even [TS]

  even get back there's stuff that is as [TS]

  bad as the 50s and 60s right now [TS]

  happening that's like we lost like 50 [TS]

  years somewhere the thing is that all [TS]

  any of us have is the news and and one [TS]

  of the things that we always said about [TS]

  the Internet from the very beginning was [TS]

  that I mean and this was all this was [TS]

  often talked about as a strength in the [TS]

  early days you would be able to tailor [TS]

  your news feed so that it fit your [TS]

  interests you have met your interests [TS]

  and now we are living in a world where [TS]

  you can tailor your news feed and [TS]

  everybody's watching their own [TS]

  individual news feed and the one that [TS]

  that people like us are watching is in [TS]

  full-on panic mode all the time and so [TS]

  it looks like a doomsday scenario that [TS]

  isn't an accurate picture right this [TS]

  whole like the EPA or the the damage to [TS]

  the environment is going to take 30 [TS]

  years to correct well no it's it's it [TS]

  depends on how you read what's going on [TS]

  like there is damage being done yes but [TS]

  there has been there have been a lot of [TS]

  improvements the the damage even during [TS]

  the Obama administration we were still [TS]

  doing a ton of damage it's not like we [TS]

  went from from Avatar to [TS]

  to Bladerunner in two weeks and then [TS]

  we'll never get back to avatar like it's [TS]

  a continuum and and progress is being [TS]

  made so on the one hand I just I always [TS]

  caution like you get into a new cycle [TS]

  and it news is built on creating panic [TS]

  and [TS]

  and [TS]

  people mm-hmm it's very very hard to [TS]

  take one big step back and not be in a [TS]

  state of panic because in fact panicking [TS]

  feels like action you know it feels like [TS]

  you're engaged it feels like you're [TS]

  doing something to be in a state of like [TS]

  anxious like but like anxious stress all [TS]

  the time yeah but like my I do believe [TS]

  that with Trump there there is no [TS]

  putting that genie back into the bottle [TS]

  like something has changed like [TS]

  irrevocably but what Trump and the [TS]

  Congress are I think is a product of [TS]

  basically 50 years of ground game that [TS]

  the Conservatives have been playing that [TS]

  the Liberals have failed at and it [TS]

  partly it is in the nature of the two [TS]

  animals like liberalism thinks of itself [TS]

  as an over arching worldview that we are [TS]

  the people that believe in the [TS]

  philosopher-king we believe in the idea [TS]

  that if people are educated they will [TS]

  make good choices and that we need to [TS]

  bring education to places if people only [TS]

  were educated if they could only see [TS]

  then they would naturally be liberals [TS]

  and so that's been our focus for ever [TS]

  since the civil rights movement we need [TS]

  to for instance busing is an example of [TS]

  a program where we just wanted people to [TS]

  to interact with each other we were we [TS]

  were attempting to combat the the kind [TS]

  of the separatism of the races bite like [TS]

  almost force wedging them together and [TS]

  this was based on an idealistic [TS]

  that we could educate people by showing [TS]

  them and that that was going to create [TS]

  this world and on the right they had a [TS]

  very much more pragmatic approach to [TS]

  American politics which was they said [TS]

  we're going to get people elected to the [TS]

  local school board and to the County [TS]

  Council and once we get somebody in [TS]

  there then we're going to Gerry manned [TS]

  the districts so that the district okay [TS]

  once you get into the tree house we're [TS]

  gonna pull up the ladder that's right [TS]

  we're gonna draw the line now so that [TS]

  this district and no longer includes any [TS]

  black neighborhoods and the district is [TS]

  going to look like a like a paint [TS]

  splotch but that doesn't matter because [TS]

  we're not trying to create a world of [TS]

  egalitarianism we're not trying to work [TS]

  according to a premise that all people [TS]

  aspire to their highest selves we're [TS]

  trying to get political power in the [TS]

  Congress and we're gonna do that [TS]

  methodically we're gonna do that with a [TS]

  kind of military like strategy and when [TS]

  people were getting you know this is 25 [TS]

  years ago we started talking about like [TS]

  wait a minute all these school boards [TS]

  are denying evolution who are these [TS]

  ding-a-lings but from the leftist [TS]

  perspective we were like well that's [TS]

  just some small-town dumb little [TS]

  Oklahoma problem and evolution is a [TS]

  widely accepted theory any smart person [TS]

  believes in it and so we're not gonna [TS]

  worry about it we're not gonna go try [TS]

  and put our own people on those school [TS]

  boards we're going to assume that things [TS]

  are you know that that our higher selves [TS]

  will win and now we're living in a world [TS]

  where the the Congress is not made up of [TS]

  people who you know who went to college [TS]

  started a successful business had an [TS]

  altruistic [TS]

  sense of American political process [TS]

  fought in the good war you know and go [TS]

  to go to Washington trying to make a [TS]

  difference we're looking at a Congress [TS]

  that is full of people that were [TS]

  strategically sent there to accomplish a [TS]

  pretty narrow mission which is basically [TS]

  hamstrung the government limit its power [TS]

  and return the right to decide whether [TS]

  evolution is true or not to the local [TS]

  school board which we've already stacked [TS]

  with people and that's the that has been [TS]

  the Republican game for 50 years and [TS]

  they it's just it's just a strategy and [TS]

  on the Left we considered ourselves [TS]

  above that kind of of like college [TS]

  football like ground game and we had [TS]

  none our ground game was all devoted to [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  to to again this this basically long [TS]

  history premise which is the more [TS]

  educated people are the more affluent [TS]

  they are and educated they are the more [TS]

  they will take an interest in civics the [TS]

  more they will as you were saying you [TS]

  know once you have a complex idea you [TS]

  very seldom go back to a simple one [TS]

  but what we didn't understand was you [TS]

  can't just go in someplace hand them a [TS]

  complex idea handsome kid a complex idea [TS]

  and all of a sudden that idea Trump's [TS]

  his parents and his grandparents and his [TS]

  church yeah yeah yeah so anyway we've [TS]

  done a very bad job of playing football [TS]

  and the political situation we're in [TS]

  right now is is a product of that and I [TS]

  think that and the Republicans have done [TS]

  or the I'm sorry the conservative side [TS]

  of the country has done a very good job [TS]

  of characterizing us as shrill out of [TS]

  touch because because every time we've [TS]

  advanced a really great fairy we also [TS]

  it's very easy to pick and choose among [TS]

  the theories promulgated by the left and [TS]

  find one that seems bonkers to a [TS]

  church-going person in Ohio mm-hmm and [TS]

  then all you have to do is put that on [TS]

  your brochure and say look what the [TS]

  Liberals want us to do you know they [TS]

  believe that they believe that all kids [TS]

  should have sex change operations it's [TS]

  like what's what where did you get that [TS]

  you know but that but there are a lot of [TS]

  grandmother's in Ohio that that's all [TS]

  they need to hear yeah so how do we get [TS]

  our ground game back I don't think that [TS]

  it's in the nature of liberals to have a [TS]

  ground game because we're because we [TS]

  that's not how we think but weird we [TS]

  have to acknowledge that we're losing in [TS]

  a battle between like you know in a [TS]

  battle between a team that has a ground [TS]

  game we're not doing a good job of [TS]

  convincing and I don't know how to [TS]

  improve on that I don't know how to how [TS]

  to get Neil deGrasse Tyson out to the [TS]

  world and and I don't think that an [TS]

  Oprah presidency is the way but like I [TS]

  do like how many women are running for [TS]

  office oh it's fantastic Seattle has our [TS]

  first female mayor in a hundred years [TS]

  basically yeah I mean I could just think [TS]

  of half a dozen reasons why that is a [TS]

  good and encouraging sign even in [TS]

  conservative places I mean you can't you [TS]

  can't argue with [TS]

  female legislators I think they [TS]

  particularly in Congress I think a [TS]

  majority female Congress would be such a [TS]

  different animal oh my god yeah [TS]

  wouldn't matter whether they were all [TS]

  Anita Bryant's I think you would see I [TS]

  think you would see a justice just a [TS]

  different mentality yeah but I don't I [TS]

  don't know what to I don't know what the [TS]

  antidote to the present moment and the [TS]

  feeling that we are on the constant [TS]

  verge of war famine catastrophe signing [TS]

  our government for three weeks at a time [TS]

  I mean that's it's it's insane but you [TS]

  know again it's not unprecedented and as [TS]

  you were saying it's not just in 68 in [TS]

  72 in 1972 George Wallace ran for the US [TS]

  presidency on a recent like a struggling [TS]

  like a racism but I mean you see I've [TS]

  been silvered through the 90s Strom [TS]

  Thurmond right it's bananas right I mean [TS]

  there's there's there have there have [TS]

  been crazy crazy crazy times before and [TS]

  I mean obviously like I was talking to [TS]

  somebody the other day like movies in [TS]

  the future who want to cast someone in [TS]

  the role of the President of the United [TS]

  States what are they gonna do now like [TS]

  it used to be that if you wanted the [TS]

  president even if it was like a science [TS]

  fiction movie or a future movie he found [TS]

  someone that seemed serious and now how [TS]

  do you cast the president it could be it [TS]

  could be Bobcat Goldthwait ghost like [TS]

  you could have anybody straight so that [TS]

  definitely is like a that's a trip but I [TS]

  I mean every time I every time I see a [TS]

  bunch of young lawyers sitting [TS]

  indian-style on the floor at an [TS]

  immigration building like frantically [TS]

  doing pro bono work to file injunctions [TS]

  I'm reminded that this is a fucking [TS]

  great country [TS]

  oh yeah look at what happened the at the [TS]

  airports when the travel ban came down [TS]

  yeah I mean that's as horrible as [TS]

  everybody felt about that that was that [TS]

  was an amazing moment that hadn't [TS]

  happened [TS]

  imagine if the presence of that kind of [TS]

  pushback had not been in evidence at [TS]

  that time where we might even be now [TS]

  well and that if it hadn't happened [TS]

  that's where you look at your country [TS]

  and say this this place is full of decay [TS]

  and rot but it did happen and you and [TS]

  then you're able to say like I have [TS]

  faith in this I have faith in in who we [TS]

  are and what we're doing I need to not [TS]

  be sad we went to see um you know an [TS]

  okay movie who is not a fantastic movie [TS]

  although it's a movie my daughter has [TS]

  now declared it was definitely her [TS]

  favorite musical and might be here [TS]

  all-time favorite movie which is the [TS]

  greatest showmen starring wolverine and [TS]

  it's the very very heavily fictionalized [TS]

  story of PT Barnum but long story short [TS]

  one of the kind of goofy narratives in [TS]

  this is like how good he was in some [TS]

  ways too like kooky Barnum yeah giving [TS]

  like humanity to his oddities and like [TS]

  how they made this family out of the [TS]

  bearded lady and General Tom Thumb and [TS]

  and I swear to god this is an actual [TS]

  thing that happened that made me feel so [TS]

  good and I don't know I can't tell she's [TS]

  just doing this to make me feel good but [TS]

  there's this moment where like they're [TS]

  they so they're outside the Barnum [TS]

  theater and they're being confronted and [TS]

  like menaced it's like something out of [TS]

  x-men it's all these little you know all [TS]

  these local hoods with Donegal caps in [TS]

  dirt on their face I'll kick their ass [TS]

  for being creaks and it's like a shot of [TS]

  like bearded lady Chang and Eng bunker [TS]

  or the Siamese twins it's you know it's [TS]

  in the bearded lady and then it's like [TS]

  Zac Efron and zendaya the the beautiful [TS]

  slender actress and and she's kind of [TS]

  like what what is what is what why is [TS]

  that a problem and I was like well you [TS]

  know what do you think she's like I [TS]

  don't I don't understand because he's [TS]

  rich I was like no no because they're of [TS]

  different races and she she actually [TS]

  made this face like hmm and I said up [TS]

  until the 1960s [TS]

  was illegal to marry somebody of a [TS]

  different race she looked like I just [TS]

  told her that like you know that there [TS]

  was a secret chocolate fountain in a [TS]

  room she didn't know about like she's [TS]

  like you've got to be kidding me like [TS]

  yeah I loved it for her and I really [TS]

  admitted Lee I'm looking for my happy [TS]

  place in this sad story but this is such [TS]

  a real thing it's not a perfect thing [TS]

  their kids are still dicks but like it [TS]

  is just it's pretty fucking cool to me [TS]

  that she's never had a thought that [TS]

  anybody regardless of their race or [TS]

  sexual orientation or gender is they're [TS]

  all cool to her and that feels [TS]

  encouraging that feels and I wonder if [TS]

  you have similar stories like that where [TS]

  it's no longer a case where like you [TS]

  know when I was in first grade my black [TS]

  friend was skipper because there's one [TS]

  black friend at my school I had a black [TS]

  friend I was like Stephen Colbert [TS]

  hey there's my african-american you know [TS]

  and that's not the case anymore [TS]

  there's not one kid from Africa there's [TS]

  not like that one kid there's not even [TS]

  that one development developmentally [TS]

  disabled kid like he's just a whole [TS]

  bunch of different kids and like if they [TS]

  want kissed that's gonna be okay [TS]

  and that feels like a pretty big move [TS]

  over Cincinnati Ohio in 1976 to me I [TS]

  mean in my dad's elementary school there [TS]

  was a black kid whose name was John and [TS]

  there was a white kid whose name was [TS]

  John Oh God and so the teacher said well [TS]

  okay from now on you're Felix as in [TS]

  Felix the Cat Oh God and I mean this is [TS]

  1927 and my dad ran into him I mean they [TS]

  were friend you know they were like [TS]

  black John white John no no it was [TS]

  feeling they were they were my dad and [TS]

  he were tight throughout school and then [TS]

  they hadn't seen each other and in 40 [TS]

  years or something and they ran into [TS]

  each other on the street when they were [TS]

  both in their 70s why my dad said John [TS]

  and he said it's Felix Davis well and he [TS]

  had been Felix he'd been Felix his whole [TS]

  life until he finally just accepted it [TS]

  because that's what everybody called him [TS]

  no he didn't finally accept it I mean [TS]

  that from the time he was 7 years old he [TS]

  was Felix and he just I mean it [TS]

  never occurred to him to not be Felix [TS]

  but I mean he was my dad knew him and [TS]

  had known him as John but hit the the [TS]

  Felix identity he had taken over him at [TS]

  probably when he went to high school and [TS]

  he was just like you know let's just not [TS]

  I was about to say let's call a spade a [TS]

  spade but that white issue I don't think [TS]

  it's encouraging that your daughter [TS]

  doesn't can't comprehend it I think it [TS]

  is the truth of the matter yeah like my [TS]

  daughter has never and she's almost [TS]

  seven now she has never referred to [TS]

  someone by their color did you imagine [TS]

  that I mean not maybe maybe not people [TS]

  were twenty they here they go oh gosh no [TS]

  I mean just how you would talk about [TS]

  people sure and partly it is because we [TS]

  have because we're modern people also [TS]

  yeah I have never said oh it's the black [TS]

  guy over there or yeah yeah well you [TS]

  know the reason that they you know the [TS]

  reason that they're using chopsticks is [TS]

  because they're Asian well yeah I mean [TS]

  everybody I mean to just put up put a [TS]

  big cherry on it we were raised to [TS]

  believe that the easiest way to identify [TS]

  people was how they were different from [TS]

  the normal thing which is me my equals [TS]

  equals normal and and and my daughter [TS]

  does cannot classify people and her [TS]

  primary way is boy-girl but then within [TS]

  girls like she has two little friends [TS]

  and one of them is almost albino she's [TS]

  so light and one of them is from India [TS]

  and the two of them are very close [TS]

  friends and Marlo sees them as [TS]

  indistinguishable from one [TS]

  they're almost because they're both the [TS]

  same size they're both small mm-hmm and [TS]

  although you know to me they look like [TS]

  the black and white chess queens of a [TS]

  very small and interesting chess game - [TS]

  to my kid they are classed the same [TS]

  because they're both littler than her [TS]

  but so she has never even come to me and [TS]

  said what's weird about this situation [TS]

  like she doesn't when so much credit [TS]

  must also go to the teachers staff [TS]

  faculty but it but it is this is the [TS]

  thing where I don't I think like I don't [TS]

  find it encouraging I find it fait [TS]

  accompli like we are better and that can [TS]

  only produce they're they're better well [TS]

  no we are too but I mean but I still [TS]

  have I still have the memories and [TS]

  knowing my even my own behavior [TS]

  Cincinnati was very I'm going to use the [TS]

  code word conservative town is a very [TS]

  nice word for wet wet honest and said [TS]

  more than Larry Flynt but glam [TS]

  headquarters oh we had all kinds of [TS]

  things going on you cross the border [TS]

  over Nene Indiana and it's like whoo [TS]

  it's it ain't no Berkeley over there [TS]

  but yeah yeah I don't know it's it's [TS]

  it's strange though it's getting back to [TS]

  the Descartes and the fingernails I mean [TS]

  it is it's super interesting for like [TS]

  I'm not saying that they can't see that [TS]

  difference but I mean how different [TS]

  would that be from like deciding who [TS]

  your friends are based on like what [TS]

  color their hair is or like the length [TS]

  of their hair or like which backpack [TS]

  they have it's like it would seem so [TS]

  arbitrary well but that mean kids are [TS]

  assholes like you see they're such [TS]

  assholes yeah but you know my dad's [TS]

  teacher called the black kid Felix but [TS]

  my dad didn't did my dad had friends of [TS]

  all races my dad's friends the best of [TS]

  all the Japanese guys that's right you [TS]

  play basketball the Japanese and his [TS]

  best friend was black his whole life but [TS]

  my dad didn't the it would never have [TS]

  occurred to my dad to say about somebody [TS]

  to describe somebody without describing [TS]

  them by their primary characteristic [TS]

  which was their skin color [TS]

  race huh you know he would never have [TS]

  said like oh it's the tall guy over [TS]

  there it's like you mean which one well [TS]

  the one over there in the red shirt you [TS]

  know he would have been like it's a [TS]

  black guy well so that then then to you [TS]

  and I who grew up in her - you and me - [TS]

  you and me mm-hmm the object the object [TS]

  of the preposition to me who grew up in [TS]

  in that world like now when we're [TS]

  teaching our kids we don't talk like [TS]

  that [TS]

  and they don't that's just not how they [TS]

  order the universe so when they talk to [TS]

  their kids they're gonna figure out a [TS]

  new ordering that somehow register got [TS]

  by the color of his backpack yeah the [TS]

  incredible mistakes that you and I make [TS]

  every day when saying whatever terrible [TS]

  thing you know that that they're gonna [TS]

  roll their eyes at us at my terrible [TS]

  debt what I'm gonna say don't put the [TS]

  cart before the horse they're gonna say [TS]

  I'm never gonna say that to my child [TS]

  it's so racist I really want to create a [TS]

  new world for them [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  Felix [TS]