The Incomparable

131: Professor Siracusa`s Anime 101


  the incomparable number 131 marks 2013 [TS]

  welcome back to the incomparable i am [TS]

  your host Jason smell and this is an [TS]

  exciting episode [TS]

  unlike most episodes of the [TS]

  uncomfortable where I sort of pick a [TS]

  topic and it's a topic that pleases me [TS]

  and and I i see if other people are [TS]

  interested in in saying nice things are [TS]

  horrible things about the topic that [TS]

  pleases me [TS]

  this is something that I've been calling [TS]

  John siracusa makes us watch anime and [TS]

  basically I said to John pick a couple [TS]

  of movies that you like and I will watch [TS]

  them and then we'll talk about them and [TS]

  that's what happened so joining me [TS]

  of course is John siracusa he is the [TS]

  ringmaster he tells us what to watch [TS]

  hi John hello jason i hope you were [TS]

  entertained [TS]

  I was but we'll get to that also joining [TS]

  me on this journey of watching watching [TS]

  these two movies that John instructed us [TS]

  to the two people who took up the [TS]

  challenge our Tony sindelar hi Tony [TS]

  hi good to have you back boy you're on [TS]

  all the time now I I don't know why it's [TS]

  a major i am yeah I reply to emails at [TS]

  standard yes that's right you have [TS]

  nothing better to do than be on the [TS]

  podcast it's that kind of season in New [TS]

  England you know a lot of Snowden that's [TS]

  true that's a good point that's a good [TS]

  point maybe we lose all the new [TS]

  englanders in the in the summertime [TS]

  also joining us is Lisa Schmeisser hi [TS]

  Lisa [TS]

  hi it's a pleasure to be here it's great [TS]

  to have you as always [TS]

  so our topic it's two films by satoshi [TS]

  kon is that right John I google for this [TS]

  before the show figuring some what we're [TS]

  going to say this guy's name I want to [TS]

  know how to pronounce that I came up [TS]

  with nothing [TS]

  so I'm we should just preemptively [TS]

  apologize for what will undoubtedly be [TS]

  the terrible mispronunciation of every [TS]

  Japanese p.m. free japanese person's [TS]

  name yeah we are sorry still chic on [TS]

  animated film director in Japan passed [TS]

  away in 2010 made for features and then [TS]

  some shows is that right John something [TS]

  like that something like that i haven't [TS]

  seen everything he's done but I've seen [TS]

  the well-known ones and we're going to [TS]

  talk about perfect blue made in 1997 and [TS]

  millennium actress made in [TS]

  2001a I i watch these on an airplane as [TS]

  we were saying before the show jon said [TS]

  that might not be the best place to do [TS]

  it since it's some point they're [TS]

  animated boobs like oh god who saw the [TS]

  but nobody saw it I was I was prepared I [TS]

  suspected there might be animated boobs [TS]

  at some point and there there were john [TS]

  i imagine that you have opening remarks [TS]

  or would like to at least set the stage [TS]

  for this and then and then presumably [TS]

  will talk and then you'll reveal your [TS]

  true feelings at the end is that how [TS]

  this is gonna work [TS]

  I don't know will say i do have opening [TS]

  comments but I think we can just talk [TS]

  about both of them [TS]

  alright always together as a group [TS]

  that's excellent yeah i'm i'm always [TS]

  surprised at how few people in our [TS]

  rotating cast of thousands on the [TS]

  incomparable are into anime we can find [TS]

  people who like books and fantasy novels [TS]

  and science fiction and television and [TS]

  movies but no anime people so that means [TS]

  the think the genesis of the show is [TS]

  that you know I i wish we had more [TS]

  people talk about any with and I I want [TS]

  to pick some movies to throw at people [TS]

  who aren't necessarily big anime fans [TS]

  and then see what we have to to say [TS]

  about it so I picked these two movies in [TS]

  particular because i think they are [TS]

  interesting examples for people who are [TS]

  not a giant fans of my first love you [TS]

  are a fan of anime you've already seen [TS]

  these movies it's like discussing Star [TS]

  Wars you know it's like not maybe not [TS]

  that level but if they're very well [TS]

  known popularly never do that on this [TS]

  graph exactly you know but the reason I [TS]

  picked these two is 12 by the same [TS]

  director as you as you noted so kind of [TS]

  like holding one of the variable study [TS]

  if we can they both have female leads [TS]

  they're both set in kind of a realistic [TS]

  world with you know certain fantasy [TS]

  elements always there by artistic [TS]

  license kind of their not well known by [TS]

  non ma fans did did have you ever heard [TS]

  of these movies before I suggested Jason [TS]

  either one [TS]

  no never yes no not even just like title [TS]

  recognition so that's why they're good [TS]

  yeah this could have been fictional [TS]

  titles from that you made up right there [TS]

  really [TS]

  and the final reason is they don't [TS]

  conform to the most commonly known anime [TS]

  stereotypes you don't know what anime is [TS]

  and someone says the board what picture [TS]

  pops [TS]

  your head it's like I'm not like that [TS]

  giant robot school girls in uniforms and [TS]

  animals bringing teenagers magic [TS]

  monsters giant eyeballs blue hair like [TS]

  all at once [TS]

  yes basically star Blazers really do not [TS]

  do not speak LOL i love Star Blazers are [TS]

  saying they're right so we're off to [TS]

  have it and maybe a monkey but ya know [TS]

  that speed racer [TS]

  hmm yeah and so that's what most people [TS]

  think of when they hear anime and I [TS]

  wanted to counter that because i'm a fan [TS]

  of anime but not so much a fan of the [TS]

  stereotypical anime so that's why I [TS]

  picked these two movies and I think they [TS]

  provide an interesting contrast to each [TS]

  other spoken about in the sequence and [TS]

  viewed one after the other [TS]

  yes they do i watch them back-to-back [TS]

  yeah that's it but it's kind of like a [TS]

  nice double header and so that that [TS]

  that's my opening right [TS]

  the idea behind this I have to make a [TS]

  confession i watch these movies in [TS]

  alphabetical order [TS]

  Jason and you're watching on a plane [TS]

  watch them in the wrong order we'll talk [TS]

  about them in the right order and I [TS]

  think that yes that would be good so [TS]

  perfect blue which features my favorite [TS]

  pop idol band of all time job with an [TS]

  exclamation points eh am ! it ! [TS]

  broadband name [TS]

  yes I believe it is it's in the titles [TS]

  and it's on their posters and it's a [TS]

  good idea to check out the id3 tag [TS]

  information on my music collection to [TS]

  see what's gonna Ram you you were the [TS]

  crazed fan who is very angry that mean i [TS]

  left the band aren't you a better is a [TS]

  trio anyway so this this movie is about [TS]

  a singer and a pop band that hasn't [TS]

  quite made it big they've been there [TS]

  kinda small-time named cham and mema [TS]

  quits the band to become an actress and [TS]

  she's in this TV show called the double [TS]

  bind and she's got a small part and her [TS]

  fans and some of her management is kind [TS]

  of upset because she giving up a good [TS]

  thing with this pop group to become a a [TS]

  an actress [TS]

  meanwhile her band which is now a duo [TS]

  actually gets on the charts with a song [TS]

  so she may be feel some regret or does [TS]

  she and so that's that's sort of like [TS]

  the basic the basics of it except [TS]

  there's a there's a stalker who has a [TS]

  website there's some really awesome [TS]

  performer and early world-wide-web done [TS]

  in this movie OS night explaining what [TS]

  websites are two people save that I want [TS]

  I want to have an in-depth discussion [TS]

  about that movie before we transition [TS]

  because I've got some sorry shots I key [TS]

  part of the movie how you explain the [TS]

  internet to people in 1998 yeah one of [TS]

  the reasons I wanted you to watch this [TS]

  movie first was because of the opening [TS]

  scene which is a misdirect i don't know [TS]

  if you remember it [TS]

  no yes yes it's got the robot battle at [TS]

  first both of these movies start with a [TS]

  misdirect it's right that that are are a [TS]

  hat tip to what you'd expect from an [TS]

  anime movie [TS]

  exactly and so you got well this [TS]

  certainly the person with the power [TS]

  rangers and everything like that and if [TS]

  you come in like the title tells you [TS]

  nothing like you said what the heck is [TS]

  perfect blue mean means nothing to you [TS]

  going in even if you see no that's you [TS]

  know the plot you just summarize what [TS]

  does that have to do with perfect little [TS]

  nose and you see the people singing and [TS]

  they run out on stage and then then it [TS]

  you know to their little catchy j-pop [TS]

  song and everything everyone's happy in [TS]

  their little pink dresses and stuff and [TS]

  then it kind of goes discordant phase [TS]

  two white and it's kind of like ominous [TS]

  which is not what you would expect from [TS]

  starting with power rangers then j-pop [TS]

  people then kind of like a weird white [TS]

  face the music goes away and it's kind [TS]

  of like scary [TS]

  alright so three things within like the [TS]

  first 30 seconds of this movie or the [TS]

  first opening sequence and make are not [TS]

  what people expect from anime anime but [TS]

  what I really like about anime because [TS]

  you can do anything you want animation [TS]

  yeah i think my wife looked over at my [TS]

  ipad while I was watching the first 30 [TS]

  seconds of this and I believe she [TS]

  actually rolled her eyes I thought no [TS]

  i'm not watching the power rangers movie [TS]

  John wouldn't have done that to mr. act [TS]

  mr. act what it's about [TS]

  yeah exactly it does touch on something [TS]

  that I really like about this movie [TS]

  because i feel like it gives you an [TS]

  excellent snapshot of pop culture life [TS]

  and in japan in the late nineteen [TS]

  nineties you have pop idols who have to [TS]

  write elevated trains everywhere because [TS]

  they're not rolling in big bucks you got [TS]

  this [TS]

  fan culture that seems to be as much [TS]

  about scoring points on each other as it [TS]

  is actually being fans of something [TS]

  you've got these websites that are kind [TS]

  of early there they're almost like early [TS]

  social media I'd I felt like I got to [TS]

  eavesdrop on on a picture of another [TS]

  culture that was actually a huge drop [TS]

  the movie for me were all the little [TS]

  quotidian details that go into the [TS]

  entertainment that keeps Japan you know [TS]

  abused I always have like a westerner is [TS]

  fascination with anime because like [TS]

  pretty much everything I know about [TS]

  japan trip has been from watching anime [TS]

  and like you said the boring things will [TS]

  be I I feel like people in Japan don't [TS]

  get this experience of an away because [TS]

  the boring things will be fascinating to [TS]

  me like just how people live in a little [TS]

  tiny apartments in the grocery shopping [TS]

  stop lying little girl and she likes a [TS]

  specific branch now who would not have [TS]

  won and they can comment on it [TS]

  yeah and that got me thinking about like [TS]

  the square watermelons that were grown [TS]

  for the japanese market so that you know [TS]

  they did they did gross square [TS]

  watermelons because she could stack them [TS]

  more efficiently in the small spaces and [TS]

  is always the question in my mind is how [TS]

  much of the stuff in his movies is made [TS]

  up [TS]

  how much is an exaggeration of a [TS]

  stereotype how much is just a plain [TS]

  boring accurate depiction of Japanese [TS]

  life but to me it's like it's all it's [TS]

  all of a piece and it's like wow this is [TS]

  amazing you never know what is gonna get [TS]

  a Japanese person i know we don't [TS]

  actually live like that you crazy person [TS]

  it's not it's just made up or what they [TS]

  say [TS]

  yeah what you can as a rice cooker and [TS]

  what's the big deal you know me like [TS]

  it's so hard to separate the the fact [TS]

  from reality but I that that is [TS]

  definitely a draw-off watching japanese [TS]

  animation that the boring stuff in the [TS]

  movies is fascinating to me [TS]

  oh yes mmm that was a big reason I kept [TS]

  paying attention [TS]

  um I saw the movie back in the nineteen [TS]

  nineties when it first came out and I [TS]

  remember that as i watched it again this [TS]

  time out to so I don't think I qualifies [TS]

  anime fan but I have what I i do watch [TS]

  it here and there arm goes to the shells [TS]

  one of my favorite movies in the late [TS]

  nineties John I think you and I had a [TS]

  discussion about a series called serial [TS]

  experiments lain yes not a big fan of [TS]

  that I like that one [TS]

  I like that one that I feel like we can [TS]

  have a debate about that but when I went [TS]

  back and read what I didn't like this [TS]

  movie that much in the nineteen nineties [TS]

  but when I went back and watched it on [TS]

  saturday i really could appreciate how [TS]

  tightly written it is [TS]

  because he he he has his little 4matic [TS]

  loop that he keeps returning to over and [TS]

  over again about how much of your [TS]

  identity is internal versus how much of [TS]

  it is is thrust upon you and he just [TS]

  keeps returning to that light motif over [TS]

  and over again and when you're 21 years [TS]

  old and you've just made a major career [TS]

  move and that cur happens to be in the [TS]

  public eye those questions are amplified [TS]

  and I was kind of blown away by the [TS]

  cleverness of the plotting and and the [TS]

  character work that he did this time [TS]

  around whereas it just kind of slid off [TS]

  my brain last time I watched it yeah you [TS]

  know I i have some issues with this [TS]

  movie I liked it but I do have some [TS]

  issues with it i think they're so it's a [TS]

  very there's a strange period where she [TS]

  were mima is doing her early acting and [TS]

  and I I felt like we were all supposed [TS]

  to be a little more concerned about her [TS]

  well-being [TS]

  then I actually was I felt like what [TS]

  what's the big deal she's going to be an [TS]

  actress now it's fine [TS]

  let her be an actress right and and that [TS]

  seemed for a while there I was just like [TS]

  why is this you know the popular wasn't [TS]

  even that successful white why didn't [TS]

  feel her angst and her doubt about what [TS]

  is the right thing to be doing [TS]

  no I thought that she was I thought [TS]

  actually for a while I thought she was [TS]

  handling it better than everybody around [TS]

  ya know she definitely she definitely [TS]

  was that I think that's I think the the [TS]

  performance it's hard to talk about [TS]

  performances and movies aren't actors [TS]

  their drawings right but i think the [TS]

  performances that they give these [TS]

  characters in the movie are actually [TS]

  extremely subtle and complex it [TS]

  I you know precisely for that reason [TS]

  because like you know she she's she [TS]

  seems like it's used to determine person [TS]

  she's leaving this group she's going to [TS]

  go to this other thing and as you said [TS]

  everyone else is all flipping out about [TS]

  it but she's like no this is what I have [TS]

  to do i'm just going to go forward and [TS]

  do it and you're wondering like is you [TS]

  know is is she really is confident she's [TS]

  putting out does she have some sort of [TS]

  doubts and i think that the movie does a [TS]

  good job of breaking that down slowly it [TS]

  so she starts to come apart it's not [TS]

  like oh she's just you know crazy from [TS]

  from the get-go and doesn't know what's [TS]

  going on like she she seems like a [TS]

  normal person doing the right thing [TS]

  that's exactly who you want to seeby i [TS]

  think in peril and a movie like this [TS]

  like a good person doing what they're [TS]

  supposed to do but [TS]

  a situation conspires to you know sit [TS]

  fantastical situation conspires to put [TS]

  her you know in danger because the John [TS]

  she's an emotional John McClane is this [TS]

  movie [TS]

  what a parallel of the cultural metaphor [TS]

  that I think kind of kind of [TS]

  encapsulates it and this goes back is [TS]

  from last season on sons of anarchy you [TS]

  had an actress named ashley tisdale [TS]

  portraying a hooker in which again at [TS]

  sons of anarchy so it's kind of water [TS]

  while whores but the big deal about [TS]

  Ashley Tisdale was she was in a bowl of [TS]

  the High School Musical movies and and [TS]

  was a Disney kid the image of squeaky [TS]

  clean and all my god now she's like a [TS]

  hooker on FX drama and I kind of got the [TS]

  idea that maybe there was that that [TS]

  discomfort with a squeaky-clean yeah [TS]

  adorooo being transposed into an overtly [TS]

  sexual role and people were i'm not sure [TS]

  how to handle this person who is [TS]

  exercising free agency of her career and [TS]

  mema herself may have been ambivalent [TS]

  about it because let's face it when you [TS]

  go from putting on a little dress and [TS]

  dancing to an audience to being [TS]

  gang-raped in a nightclub [TS]

  um you are probably going to ask a few [TS]

  questions about what about the direction [TS]

  you're going in is really the right one [TS]

  yeah IIM and by the time we get to that [TS]

  point makes sense I guess what I'm [TS]

  saying is that is that she seems very [TS]

  centered for that it from the beginning [TS]

  and everybody around her seem so far the [TS]

  other way that it seems really weird for [TS]

  me that they were they were so far apart [TS]

  i think that's a little bit of the [TS]

  culture of you know these idol singers [TS]

  that like the Phantom around the methods [TS]

  part was part of the reason she wanted [TS]

  to get out of that right and them around [TS]

  them is so insane you know right down to [TS]

  that the management and the people you [TS]

  know and like there are some hard how [TS]

  stable like look she's going to be an [TS]

  actress but she's got to do that's it [TS]

  and you know but everyone else in her [TS]

  life like she's escaping you know that [TS]

  that's why she seems in building one [TS]

  when the 22 people she left start to [TS]

  become successful is like mama you know [TS]

  maybe I should have gone with them [TS]

  whatever on the other hand I'm also kind [TS]

  of glad to be out of that so i like i [TS]

  like that moment actually where she's [TS]

  like you know it's fine i'm doing this [TS]

  now this is the right this is the right [TS]

  thing for me to do I a so another thing [TS]

  I went on to bring up that's in that [TS]

  first scene when there when she [TS]

  announced her departure is the way that [TS]

  the the guy who I guess we call me mania [TS]

  maybe [TS]

  Mina yeah is the stalker he is drawn [TS]

  which is like his my eyes are so far [TS]

  apart that you know is why God in his [TS]

  temples and we frequently we feel only [TS]

  1i right his face obscured brighter and [TS]

  they're like kind of haunting black eyes [TS]

  and weird teeth and he's a super creepy [TS]

  almost like deformed face guy and I I [TS]

  thought that was really strange to that [TS]

  dead and there's a reason I you know it [TS]

  it's it was clear to me at the beginning [TS]

  that this guy was really obviously [TS]

  creepy and a stalker and that there was [TS]

  probably a reason why he was so [TS]

  obviously creepy and stalker because [TS]

  otherwise you try to conceal him a [TS]

  little bit more her but I still I I [TS]

  found it I found it disturbing and yet [TS]

  also really strange that he was so weird [TS]

  it from the beginning [TS]

  it's a convention of automated [TS]

  apparently it's called donk gon k and [TS]

  the idea is that you're something that [TS]

  you're supposed to be absurdly ugly and [TS]

  you deliberately and without subtlety [TS]

  and it's supposed to be a signifier to [TS]

  character and plot development but that [TS]

  because I think I guess what the [TS]

  animation style this movie and it's like [TS]

  it [TS]

  this stop it's not the gigantic heads [TS]

  with eyes that take up two-thirds of the [TS]

  surface and spiky blue hair right but on [TS]

  the other hand like if I had to [TS]

  categorize to know this is like this is [TS]

  realistic animation the people have the [TS]

  proportions of human beings their arms [TS]

  and legs are the correct length their [TS]

  heads are the more or less the correct [TS]

  size in proportion to their bodies [TS]

  so you're like alright just you know it [TS]

  could almost be rotoscope right it's [TS]

  realistic but it's not because if you [TS]

  look at the people i mean he's the most [TS]

  obvious example if you look at anything [TS]

  they are not actually correctly [TS]

  proportion they fool you into thinking [TS]

  you're watching the world with regular [TS]

  people but the trick of the animation is [TS]

  you know really their eyes are a little [TS]

  bit bigger than they should be [TS]

  and you know there's very few lines [TS]

  making up to do that it's it's more [TS]

  expressive than it would be if it was [TS]

  rotoscoped for ECG or something that [TS]

  because the things that they draw can't [TS]

  exist in real life so this is if you [TS]

  tried to make a CG version of that of [TS]

  the mania guy it would just be it would [TS]

  take you out of the movie it would break [TS]

  math it already kind of it adds to hell [TS]

  unsettling he looks right is that the [TS]

  other characters especially frequency [TS]

  and crowd scenes right the other [TS]

  characters he's around [TS]

  kind of generic normal-looking right and [TS]

  he is he is kind of the most cartoony I [TS]

  mean that even just like the other fans [TS]

  like this with them are benign fans [TS]

  York's objectify are nevertheless but [TS]

  still are at least not overtly crazy [TS]

  they look strange to like they become [TS]

  more character likeness is a sucky [TS]

  Kwanzaa movies there's a lot of the you [TS]

  know the people you look at one person [TS]

  like it's an old person but if you go [TS]

  down if you lined up all the characters [TS]

  you'd be like wow now we're really [TS]

  getting into caricatures over there it's [TS]

  almost like a loony toons type thing but [TS]

  it's it's a gradual gradation i wish [TS]

  they hadn't made him so ugly because i [TS]

  feel like that really tip the hand early [TS]

  on [TS]

  um yeah since this movie does rely on a [TS]

  surprise up i'm going to bring the [TS]

  spoiler horn but since the movie does [TS]

  rely on a surprise twist into excuse to [TS]

  try and explain everything that goes on [TS]

  I felt that if you have somebody who [TS]

  looks up so obviously sinister and [TS]

  behaves in such an obviously unhinged [TS]

  away cuz he's the first one to draw [TS]

  blood movie yeah [TS]

  mhm then you know your sort of [TS]

  broadcasting here be a villain whereas [TS]

  if it's somebody who is deceptively [TS]

  normal-looking um I forget the name of [TS]

  the pornographer character but what was [TS]

  some photographer guy [TS]

  yeah yeah the photographer / [TS]

  pornographer one of one of the things I [TS]

  thought was interesting was the way he [TS]

  casually holds out his hand and an [TS]

  assistant puts in another camera and he [TS]

  just keeps the moment going and and it's [TS]

  obvious he's doing a job and he has no [TS]

  qualms about the way he's packaging and [TS]

  marketing nema and I actually thought [TS]

  that was a little bit spookier and [TS]

  creepier than you know internet [TS]

  wall-eyed internet loner runs website [TS]

  well that's that's kind of like to think [TS]

  that she would you know that they can [TS]

  make a point of emphasizing or [TS]

  objectification is the pop idol and she [TS]

  wants to be like a serious actress but [TS]

  then just ends up falling back into the [TS]

  same traps like I guess this is what I [TS]

  kind of have to do but in the other hand [TS]

  now here I am doing these things that [TS]

  you can tell she's not as comfortable [TS]

  with it she would like to be and that's [TS]

  that's eventually to her breakdown is [TS]

  that like she was trying to you know [TS]

  Escape that world when she has that [TS]

  quote where she says well a lot of [TS]

  people have gone to a lot of effort for [TS]

  me to do this I don't want to let them [TS]

  down and you can tell she really resents [TS]

  that too at the same time maybe she's [TS]

  not doesn't want to be you know that the [TS]

  whole I have to please my superiors and [TS]

  betters and the males in my life kind of [TS]

  thing that she's going back into this [TS]

  there's a lot I mean for a movie that's [TS]

  exploitative of [TS]

  you know if people look at this all you [TS]

  know japanese movie with these pop stars [TS]

  and are going to be naked and they're [TS]

  gonna be beautiful and they and they all [TS]

  right and they are but it's like I think [TS]

  it does an excellent job of you know [TS]

  using that to good effect and i think i [TS]

  think the nudity in the movie is a good [TS]

  example of that because it there's a lot [TS]

  of it relative to you know most non non [TS]

  adult anime our guests but it's always [TS]

  used in a way that conveys the plight of [TS]

  me man being photographed like the [TS]

  viewers made to feel uncomfortable at [TS]

  the latest right and all and just [TS]

  incredibly well done like it very rarely [TS]

  have I seen the nudity and live-action [TS]

  movies that made me feel as [TS]

  uncomfortable as the animated movie and [TS]

  this movie which is exactly what it's [TS]

  supposed to do like they don't they [TS]

  don't try to have it both ways don't try [TS]

  so you're gonna be titillated and no [TS]

  it's mostly just entirely uncomfortable [TS]

  terrible the reason i'm laughing so I [TS]

  just lands terrible i like the I also [TS]

  like the way that the the rape scene is [TS]

  handled where it's it's the shooting of [TS]

  a rape scene it's not a rape [TS]

  it's a shooting of a rape scene in a TV [TS]

  show and so you have them preparing to [TS]

  be on camera and then there's action and [TS]

  then the action happens and then they [TS]

  cut and then they're out of character [TS]

  again and and and then they let's do it [TS]

  again which really gets there's [TS]

  something about that that it's the you [TS]

  know it's this work and it's it's not [TS]

  horrible unto itself it's that it's [TS]

  horrible in this context of the scenes [TS]

  that they're doing and there's a really [TS]

  great moment where the where they have [TS]

  the rapist actor lean screens down her [TS]

  and says I'm sorry about this just like [TS]

  it's fine but it's it's a that's a great [TS]

  moment everyone's trying to be [TS]

  professional but i think the scene does [TS]

  a great job of saying look no matter how [TS]

  professional you try to be it's still [TS]

  difficult thing to do for an actress [TS]

  like this is this is applying you know [TS]

  this this is a stressful situation for [TS]

  her and it's a difficult thing to do is [TS]

  her first time doing it even though [TS]

  everyone involved is professional and [TS]

  trying to do things the right way or [TS]

  whatever it's you know it's not easy and [TS]

  I this all builds to having a realistic [TS]

  breakdown of this character who is not a [TS]

  flake is not a weak-willed is doing the [TS]

  right thing but nevertheless that these [TS]

  crazy [TS]

  didn't conspire to to finally break her [TS]

  down this writer by the way whoever the [TS]

  the writer of this of this movie loves [TS]

  must love Jodie Foster because there are [TS]

  like at least three aspects of jodie [TS]

  foster that have all been rolled [TS]

  together here because the plot of double [TS]

  bind is essentially the silence of the [TS]

  lambs it seems because there's a serial [TS]

  killer who's taking women's skin off [TS]

  because he wants to be a woman [TS]

  there's the rape scene which is they [TS]

  have the even directly referenced is [TS]

  what jodie foster did in the accused [TS]

  right and of course the know nobody [TS]

  knows what it's like to have a horrible [TS]

  murderous stalker then Jodie Foster [TS]

  because john hinckley was basically her [TS]

  stalker and then shot ronald reagan so I [TS]

  thought that was kind of interesting too [TS]

  that it's but-but-but mima gets it all [TS]

  at once [TS]

  yay good good luck with that and she [TS]

  doesn't handle it well which is not [TS]

  surprising but it to my favorite my [TS]

  favorite part of this movie is but I've [TS]

  done all this work and they've built up [TS]

  this situation oh and by the way the [TS]

  obvious nuh some of the the mania [TS]

  stalker thing I like that aspect another [TS]

  reason i recommend this movie to new [TS]

  people is that if you go in thinking [TS]

  anime is gonna be dumb you'll be like oh [TS]

  this dumps gonna be that guy [TS]

  yeah you guys are looking at ash Park [TS]

  for that but like you like it's another [TS]

  nice misdirect because there are plenty [TS]

  of you know and lifetime movies where [TS]

  the creepy stalker guy is the creepy [TS]

  stalker I for the whole move the whole [TS]

  movie and then you know that's just what [TS]

  it is right this is not the case missing [TS]

  but anyway I love this all comes [TS]

  together and they start doing that [TS]

  sequence which is losing it and they [TS]

  start intercutting her scenes in [TS]

  whatever work that she's doing with her [TS]

  life in such a way that the first time i [TS]

  watch this [TS]

  I actually did find myself questioning [TS]

  what had previously understood to be the [TS]

  reality of this movie which is what [TS]

  they're trying to make you do it [TS]

  normally like I'm you know I'm none too [TS]

  smart for that they're not gonna like [TS]

  wait a second like they they cut back [TS]

  and forth and that the lines in the [TS]

  movie are such a perfect fit for [TS]

  possible explanations of this crazy [TS]

  person who think that she was a pop star [TS]

  and actress you know what I mean yeah [TS]

  and they and they cut back and forth to [TS]

  her real life and her movies I without [TS]

  holding your hand [TS]

  and-and-and without dumbing it down and [TS]

  without like trying to make sure [TS]

  everyone follows along if you go back [TS]

  and look at it it's all completely [TS]

  legitimate and they're not cheating and [TS]

  it's not you know whatever but it really [TS]

  does mess you up and so the this is like [TS]

  a center part of this movie where I get [TS]

  lost even watching multiple times you [TS]

  start to get a lot even though I know [TS]

  you know what is the actual you start to [TS]

  get lost a little bit and that i think i [TS]

  haven't felt in a live-action movie and [TS]

  the longest time where they trust the [TS]

  audience enough to intentionally confuse [TS]

  them without using a cheat to convey [TS]

  what the what the character is feeling [TS]

  and it's not done with like really fast [TS]

  cuts your special effects for dramatic [TS]

  music is just seeing after senior like [TS]

  we need a second because because what [TS]

  you're doing is it since the movies like [TS]

  this the whole way doesn't hold your [TS]

  hand doesn't have like tons of excessive [TS]

  exposition the creator's assume you're [TS]

  not dumb you are paying attention and so [TS]

  when you're paying attention when they [TS]

  start to do that you're like wait a [TS]

  second i'm going to figure this movie [TS]

  out okay so how so this note really [TS]

  she's just a crazy person all time and [TS]

  she thinks she's a pop star that's the [TS]

  reality is that you know which is not [TS]

  actually the case is also another case [TS]

  of a misdirect but I i love that I love [TS]

  that payoff of having earned that that [TS]

  confusing middle section of your wee-wee [TS]

  barrel towards the Big Finish [TS]

  yeah I guess we we should if we haven't [TS]

  gotten to it yet we should at least [TS]

  officially blow the spoiler warning here [TS]

  you should probably watch this movie [TS]

  before you listen to the rest of the [TS]

  podcast or just you know suck it up it's [TS]

  it's just the way it is it this movie [TS]

  has been a long time you should have [TS]

  watched it already it's been out for 16 [TS]

  years [TS]

  yeah Jason why have you watching this [TS]

  movie I know exactly i did I have [TS]

  watched John I know all about it [TS]

  so here's the thing i want to talk about [TS]

  the internet and phantom because I think [TS]

  that's an important part of this movie [TS]

  and and and i want to talk about a [TS]

  little bit + mcintosh perform its [TS]

  awesome before we get there mostly [TS]

  didn't notice that there's some other [TS]

  technology product that's kind of like [TS]

  got a fake name in the movie it's like I [TS]

  don't know whether it's like a sony or [TS]

  HP or something like that but there's [TS]

  something in its faked up but the Apple [TS]

  box is rendered immaculately I thought [TS]

  that was hilarious [TS]

  no I want to talk about the the the [TS]

  sequence that ends up with with the [TS]

  reveal of who is what's really going on [TS]

  here because what it felt like to me I [TS]

  loved the playing with fantasy and [TS]

  reality where we think we're watching [TS]

  her life but it's actually the the show [TS]

  she's on and you know and we wonder if [TS]

  she's going crazy you know sometimes [TS]

  she's confused is the show i'm on where [TS]

  is my real life [TS]

  right exactly i like i like that but [TS]

  they're so there's the sequence of [TS]

  scenes where she wakes up in her bedroom [TS]

  and crazy things happen and then she [TS]

  wakes up in her bedroom again and then [TS]

  crazy things happen and then she wakes [TS]

  up in her bedroom again and I felt like [TS]

  that went on too long I felt like I and [TS]

  here's my theory [TS]

  my theory is that the filmmakers were so [TS]

  concerned about smart [TS]

  audience members figuring out right away [TS]

  that her the managers assistant was [TS]

  actually kind of a crazy stalker because [TS]

  she's the one who has access to the [TS]

  information that's on the website and [TS]

  all that is access to the apartment [TS]

  she's doing as a breakdown every time I [TS]

  mean if you want to the second time it [TS]

  is so obviously like how do you not see [TS]

  this [TS]

  well i saw i saw the first time so my [TS]

  theory is that they did the reality [TS]

  spinning stuff again and again again [TS]

  again to make it so kind of crazy and [TS]

  confusing that you lose track of the [TS]

  thing that you you thought at the [TS]

  beginning which is which is what [TS]

  happened to me and so that when the the [TS]

  assistant is revealed to actually be a [TS]

  crazy stalker who then I was like oh [TS]

  yeah right [TS]

  from what I thought earlier but I just I [TS]

  just thought it was too much I thought I [TS]

  thought that it that little kind of like [TS]

  world whirligig of of crazy is it real [TS]

  or is it not when on like a little too [TS]

  long like they were trying a little too [TS]

  hard to just you know put a blindfold on [TS]

  the audience and spin him around a few [TS]

  times still they were diseased it's not [TS]

  actually that long you should watch that [TS]

  section of second time because it's [TS]

  pretty darn type i think where the fish [TS]

  alive where the fish dad with the fish [TS]

  alive where the fish the first one I was [TS]

  like okay this is cool at and when she [TS]

  wakes up again Mike hot that's funny [TS]

  and then when they did the third time I [TS]

  thought yeah i thought okay i don't have [TS]

  a good feeling of like day-in day-out [TS]

  kind of thing like where you know day [TS]

  after day she finds herself waiting I [TS]

  kind of like an alcoholic blacking out [TS]

  where you find yourself back in our like [TS]

  Groundhog Day you find yourself back [TS]

  again in each day you go through it and [TS]

  it gets worse it gets a little less [TS]

  coherent as time goes on it and they [TS]

  kind of one of those little bit like the [TS]

  fish that's the signifier the users with [TS]

  a little bit weak because there again [TS]

  they're relying on you to remember the [TS]

  state of the fish and what does it mean [TS]

  that they're alive and YouTube [TS]

  immediately put together that if they're [TS]

  alive it's a recreation you know like [TS]

  they could have used something else for [TS]

  that but I I i like that there was no [TS]

  explicit exposition that I mean because [TS]

  they had built everything up they don't [TS]

  have to explain to you because you're [TS]

  like oh that makes sense that yes you [TS]

  know it's not it's not a cheat and it's [TS]

  not out of nowhere it's not the [TS]

  character had one line in the movie it's [TS]

  the one that it makes total sense that [TS]

  it would be the one that was hysterical [TS]

  crying when she decided to do the nude [TS]

  scene all that stuff like she was nuts [TS]

  from the beginning of the movie even if [TS]

  you didn't see it like you didn't see it [TS]

  for the same reason that maybe didn't [TS]

  see it because you just have you are as [TS]

  the assistant is like a side character [TS]

  psycho she just stared help me whatever [TS]

  you know what you should be paying more [TS]

  attention to the air and early anyway [TS]

  that was my feeling is that there was a [TS]

  little too much of that and it was I [TS]

  think just trying to get enough of the [TS]

  misdirect so that when that twist came [TS]

  later on you would have you you were off [TS]

  of the first thing at least that's how [TS]

  played for me because you know I just [TS]

  yet that was that it pushed it a little [TS]

  too far for my taste I thought they were [TS]

  trying a little too hard and unlike the [TS]

  sixth sense i think once you know the [TS]

  twisted this movie it doesn't be [TS]

  unless entertaining like it's not really [TS]

  like the twist its fine its there it is [TS]

  what it is but it's that the strength of [TS]

  the movie is not in that part in all its [TS]

  in the characterization and the way [TS]

  things unfold like i like i like the [TS]

  fact that was kind of realistically [TS]

  animated and like you can imagine what [TS]

  the way you describe this movie was [TS]

  probably inaccurate because i haven't [TS]

  seen enough brian de palma movies but [TS]

  you say it's like a brian de palma movie [TS]

  shot in anime because you could make a [TS]

  live-action version of this movie like [TS]

  the fantasy elements are our only [TS]

  fantastical in terms of mental breakdown [TS]

  type of things you know what I mean like [TS]

  you could you could do it in live-action [TS]

  it's it plays straight and fair and it's [TS]

  are reasonably well structured thriller [TS]

  if a little bit conventional but the [TS]

  details of it would really make it [TS]

  oh my gosh to the i would love to see a [TS]

  live-action effect of the imaginary [TS]

  meetin ya leaping from leaping from [TS]

  street light red light red light because [TS]

  that is that isn't hungry Reeves it's [TS]

  wonderful i think it would make a good [TS]

  live action movie [TS]

  definitely yeah oh yeah well it was [TS]

  supposed to be before the funding fell [TS]

  through was not the story there right [TS]

  that's according to wikipedia and [TS]

  wikipedia is never wrong never so can we [TS]

  talk about the the performer which is [TS]

  set up in the movie by the it by the [TS]

  stalker [TS]

  believe it or not that's one another [TS]

  reason that i recommend this movie [TS]

  because the best anime is created by [TS]

  obsessive people and the the perfect the [TS]

  most perfect example this movie is that [TS]

  incredibly obsessive depiction of [TS]

  Macintosh performer 5300 can't tell but [TS]

  what exactly did it set and the setup of [TS]

  same in the box and the whole thing [TS]

  enough imagine imagine me watching movie [TS]

  not knowing anything about it but chosen [TS]

  for me specifically by John siracusa and [TS]

  a Macintosh perform appears I i had to [TS]

  pause the movie on the airplane to laugh [TS]

  and laugh and laugh until tears came [TS]

  down my face it's did you see it like [TS]

  every part of that was right like oh [TS]

  yeah the startup screen [TS]

  oh it was so nice to see that startup [TS]

  screen again the hardware itself the [TS]

  menu bar i think the sound was wrong [TS]

  a bit but that was it was well they're [TS]

  the people drawing it on control the [TS]

  sound of the menu bar with little icons [TS]

  in the finder folder labels the netscape [TS]

  contemporary version escape splash [TS]

  screen the UI and here's the thing that [TS]

  drives me nuts about you know regular [TS]

  live-action movies right [TS]

  they have live action movies with the [TS]

  actual real computer and like it'll be [TS]

  like an actual real macintosh and they [TS]

  still don't look as realistic as this [TS]

  drawing Pacific crazy stuff in the [TS]

  screen and the mouse is from like a ps2 [TS]

  or something yeah but what are you doing [TS]

  you have the real computer for these [TS]

  guys just have a pen and paper and said [TS]

  no we're gonna get this exactly right [TS]

  every single part of that you know real [TS]

  URL she looks on the papers and the [TS]

  actual your relative something like [TS]

  backslashes instead of slashes and some [TS]

  crazy like its it you know it's not hard [TS]

  to do but it's just so amazing to see it [TS]

  and like same thing with the other [TS]

  things you see the coffeemaker the [TS]

  supermarket the stuff that we don't [TS]

  recognize those pathetic because we [TS]

  don't know what the real things are but [TS]

  that obsessive attention to detail is [TS]

  what makes great anime great and like [TS]

  little things like that you know all up [TS]

  to the big things i had i just love it i [TS]

  mean i'll be i'll be honest of course i [TS]

  was going to notice the mac but i did [TS]

  also obsessively notice the all the [TS]

  labels of the prices on the shelves in [TS]

  the supermarket so it wasn't just those [TS]

  it wasn't just the performer but the [TS]

  performer you know it really funny [TS]

  really funny detail but also what it [TS]

  says the idea that she has to explain [TS]

  what room he has to explain to me mama [TS]

  how the internet works essentially and [TS]

  and how it's a homepage [TS]

  basically it's a website for this for [TS]

  for her fans and and then she sees that [TS]

  there are these posts that are allegedly [TS]

  by her that no details of her life but [TS]

  aren't her and that's how she begins to [TS]

  wonder if she's going crazy because she [TS]

  doesn't say these things and yet they're [TS]

  accurate right there dude down two down [TS]

  to detail which is super creepy until [TS]

  they're not until they're not psychotic [TS]

  break the life she wants she has one of [TS]

  the saddest little lines is when she [TS]

  reads the 333 cyclist oh I guess I went [TS]

  too hard you go today and you can tell [TS]

  she has no recollection of it she's kind [TS]

  of sad that that all I guess I did this [TS]

  and she's just so beaten down and [TS]

  resigned to the fact that somebody else [TS]

  is is is eavesdropping on her life and [TS]

  and marketing it and it's it's a further [TS]

  symptom of her madness where she didn't [TS]

  do that at all I always read that as [TS]

  like maybe she didn't do that matter now [TS]

  she's always figured I always assume [TS]

  that she didn't and the assistant went [TS]

  to Harvard you can block the clothes so [TS]

  that way when she did the killing she [TS]

  could then drop it off and there would [TS]

  be the plant there would be the seed of [TS]

  doubt in mimo in Minas mind right so if [TS]

  she ever got arrested for she can be [TS]

  like well I guess I want to her juku and [TS]

  she would keep it down her own veracity [TS]

  right i mean that that woman was crazy [TS]

  like a fox [TS]

  yeah she was she was yeah that's another [TS]

  thing you can do in anime like a hat of [TS]

  post section here that about like since [TS]

  this movie should be done it could be [TS]

  done in live-action why what's the point [TS]

  of doing animation like wouldn't [TS]

  wouldn't it be better and live action [TS]

  and and I actually love animation i [TS]

  think there's things you can do an [TS]

  animation that I like so much better [TS]

  than live action one of them is in the [TS]

  final scene where it's revealed the room [TS]

  is the you know the crazy person when [TS]

  when we see roomy as she sees herself [TS]

  and looks like a blood red clothes [TS]

  version of mima but sometimes we see [TS]

  like her reflection or we see her as she [TS]

  actually is it looks totally different [TS]

  and I guess you can do that with two [TS]

  different actors in the movie or [TS]

  whatever but just think things like that [TS]

  you know that the fantasy elements that [TS]

  you can do when you draw things I it's [TS]

  also much of a piece i got like computer [TS]

  animations and I was gonna call you do [TS]

  anything in computer animation like [TS]

  there's no limits its you know you [TS]

  whatever your imagination but even more [TS]

  so than with computer animation with a [TS]

  blank piece of paper you can really do [TS]

  anything and there's no like there's no [TS]

  black holes like we all you want to like [TS]

  liquids or or you know skin or like [TS]

  certain things that are really hard that [TS]

  it's like well that's a whole big deal [TS]

  and you have to you know sink a [TS]

  disproportionate amount of time and [TS]

  effort in this one thing because you [TS]

  just get a guy with a pencil they can [TS]

  literally draw anything to end to [TS]

  restrain yourself and draw the world [TS]

  around you exactly as you see it but to [TS]

  only embellish it just the right moment [TS]

  in just the right way to make creepy or [TS]

  surreal or whatever is what i love about [TS]

  this this style of animation sort of [TS]

  more realistic style while still showing [TS]

  the flare that you can't really have in [TS]

  live-action absolutely concur [TS]

  there was a movie out about Mary [TS]

  monroe called Norma Jean in maryland [TS]

  where on mira sorvino played the Marilyn [TS]

  Monroe part and actually just played the [TS]

  Norma Jean part and watching those two [TS]

  have scenes together was Marilyn having [TS]

  her [TS]

  am I crazy moment because it was [TS]

  horrible it was a horrible awkward movie [TS]

  to watch and I felt bad for everyone [TS]

  involved so we shouldn't we should move [TS]

  on so before we do that in it we should [TS]

  sum up sum up our experience here for [TS]

  having everybody how did everybody feel [TS]

  what's the final verdict of this in the [TS]

  end i don't think i'd recommend it to [TS]

  somebody who's not already on the nerdly [TS]

  spectrum [TS]

  yeah but but that's just me because a [TS]

  lot of things I think we were talking [TS]

  about are things that we kind of tweaked [TS]

  to because of obsessive natures are [TS]

  geeky nature's my husband's a big fan of [TS]

  more and i still wouldn't recommend this [TS]

  to him [TS]

  I don't think well I think that the [TS]

  things that we liked about it like John [TS]

  said you've got a medium where you can [TS]

  do these fantastical things and they're [TS]

  perfectly aesthetically consistent [TS]

  plausible I'm afraid of the movie i [TS]

  think that might actually be a turnoff [TS]

  to to some people but did you like it [TS]

  that's what we want oh my god yeah yeah [TS]

  I mean I liked it a lot better than the [TS]

  first time I saw which I actually [TS]

  considered something of victory to [TS]

  anyone about you i also enjoyed it i had [TS]

  also seen it 10 or 11 or 12 years ago [TS]

  but the dot remember it very struggling [TS]

  uh I mainly remember i remember that it [TS]

  had a twist in it but I did not remember [TS]

  what the twist was enough [TS]

  you're an old person now it's new to you [TS]

  yeah you know I also remembered that [TS]

  also it had disturbing visuals after the [TS]

  twist which may have been part of why i [TS]

  did not good memory i know somebody [TS]

  who's gonna get like impaled on like you [TS]

  know a giant glass so spoiler that that [TS]

  stuck with me [TS]

  oh the turnout was nothing that the the [TS]

  whatever screwdriver ice pick stabbing [TS]

  westward chose not to retain that but [TS]

  yeah that [TS]

  that isn't so good either I don't know [TS]

  there was something about the following [TS]

  on the beta class even though I guess [TS]

  she's not be able to disturb you know [TS]

  that [TS]

  yeah relatively speaking yeah i mean [TS]

  physically at least she was intact but [TS]

  yeah I enjoyed it i think it works well [TS]

  as kind of a thriller [TS]

  um I'm not sure if i would recommend it [TS]

  to somebody kind of seeking out on ma [TS]

  just because it's it is relatively [TS]

  different from a lot of other on [TS]

  everyone challenging it's much more tuna [TS]

  and so I it kind of does work is that I [TS]

  mean it is you know very kind of [TS]

  grown-up adult movie as opposed to other [TS]

  army made that may have adult themes to [TS]

  it but also as can still have kind of be [TS]

  kind of more aimed at like a teenager [TS]

  kind of audience so yeah yeah I I [TS]

  thought it was okay I I because i [TS]

  watched in alphabetical order it was [TS]

  difficult because this is not as good [TS]

  movie is the other 1i think but anyway [TS]

  woof jaxson we'll we'll get there have a [TS]

  gets better as the agency [TS]

  this is a young man's movie full vigor [TS]

  yeah uh-huh yeah [TS]

  hey everyone nobody loves of pop idols [TS]

  more than me i have a website maybe [TS]

  you've seen it [TS]

  Evie but the you know like I said I I [TS]

  weird weird stalker way he's drawn and [TS]

  obviously the bad guy and then I kind of [TS]

  picked up on the on the on the assistant [TS]

  being involved early on and you know I [TS]

  it was fine it was fun i enjoyed the I [TS]

  enjoyed that reality fantasy blurring of [TS]

  the of the show within the show that the [TS]

  TV series and how they change the Ark of [TS]

  the show when she become successful to [TS]

  make it more about her as the sister [TS]

  who's confused and doesn't know reality [TS]

  from fantasy which is hilarious because [TS]

  we're also seeing the reality and [TS]

  fantasy of her own life so it's like [TS]

  they've written her life into the plot [TS]

  and that makes it extra confusing for [TS]

  her you know there's a lot to like about [TS]

  i i i i don't know I i guess i go along [TS]

  with the with tony and lisa that I liked [TS]

  it [TS]

  I've got some I've got some issues with [TS]

  it i suppose i really love the early [TS]

  days of the web fans interacting with [TS]

  the with the their famous people [TS]

  might there might be issues there that [TS]

  was that was prescient I mean really [TS]

  this was 1997 so you always this retro [TS]

  know that was contemporary that was how [TS]

  I was gonna pretty much out and the [TS]

  beautiful thing about that is that she [TS]

  actually explains it correctly you can [TS]

  you put the you around the location bar [TS]

  those are real words [TS]

  yeah yeah no she she may be a crazy [TS]

  stalker but she knows how to use format [TS]

  yeah that's how she becomes the crazy [TS]

  starter [TS]

  yes she's she's very practiced [TS]

  maintaining that site [TS]

  yeah so she's got it all figured out [TS]

  there's appears what you do Jason wait [TS]

  10 years [TS]

  watch the movie and then apparently [TS]

  improves and I think it actually does [TS]

  benefit from like reside watching you [TS]

  know what it was originally released in [TS]

  97 and really liked it and it's not a [TS]

  few more times and then coming back to [TS]

  her like well this is going to be played [TS]

  out like you know seen this movie before [TS]

  it's kind of a one-trick pony I've seen [TS]

  it it's not gonna it's not going to be [TS]

  affecting i'm not going to be caught up [TS]

  with me just gonna kind of be but it got [TS]

  me again and I was able to notice more [TS]

  nuances this is not a movie that's [TS]

  really about the story it's not about [TS]

  the twist it's more it's more about the [TS]

  emotion and if I don't maybe I'm reading [TS]

  more into it than is there which is [TS]

  typical thing with anime especially when [TS]

  it's it's dumped because i can imagine [TS]

  that the performances that I don't [TS]

  understand are incredibly moving and [TS]

  heartfelt and been really maybe just [TS]

  someone reading lines I can't tell but [TS]

  it got me again it wrapped me up in it [TS]

  but I i agree that the millennium [TS]

  actress is a better movie tom [TS]

  that's all i have to say about that well [TS]

  let's move on to millennium actress 2001 [TS]

  opening this direction the surprise [TS]

  yes this is this is something almost out [TS]

  of space 1999 where if there's a moon [TS]

  base with a a a little sort of shall we [TS]

  say flower petal style that's important [TS]

  it's pastor J that's important [TS]

  a little opening and should the woman it [TS]

  has to go and and leave and no but you [TS]

  can't go out there and she leaves him in [TS]

  a rocket and you're thinking again what [TS]

  is this that i'm watching and it turns [TS]

  out that it is we cut to a guy watching [TS]

  it on TV and he says this is always my [TS]

  favorite part and turns out that he and [TS]

  a cameraman [TS]

  are going to interview this famous [TS]

  actress who were mostly in the what [TS]

  forties and fifties now up through from [TS]

  the 47th sixties 36 panwar to ya-ya [TS]

  Spanish start she starts during World [TS]

  War Two and she stops pretty much when [TS]

  she's in her forties so up to almost the [TS]

  seventies i think is that that kind of [TS]

  space movie wouldn't have been made any [TS]

  ground before nineteen seventy yeah well [TS]

  like I said it looks in 3-space 1999 I'm [TS]

  oh yeah and and they are going to get a [TS]

  rare interview with her so it'sit's him [TS]

  and the cameraman and and they go to her [TS]

  her house and and she comes out and says [TS]

  I think you have something you said you [TS]

  had something for me and he gives her a [TS]

  key and she's taken aback by this and [TS]

  quite shocked it's the Rosebud number of [TS]

  yeah basically he's so he isn't she [TS]

  talked about her garden how she loves [TS]

  the flowers and his production company [TS]

  we learn is also called lotus is that [TS]

  right yeah which is the flower that she [TS]

  grows and she's so that's funny I grows [TS]

  flowers mrs. I know but it's not great [TS]

  restart not into creepy stalker creepy [TS]

  in a fanboy yeah he's a total he's a [TS]

  huge fan of hers who is who is now [TS]

  interviewing her for a documentary about [TS]

  her life basically and she begins to [TS]

  tell her story of this this famous [TS]

  actress and it's told in flashback and [TS]

  so for a while you're thinking okay i [TS]

  get i get with this is going up see [TS]

  movies like this and then a funny thing [TS]

  happens which is the interviewer and [TS]

  cameraman are in the flashback as if [TS]

  they're recording the flashback for the [TS]

  documentary and thus begins millennium [TS]

  actress where reality and fantasy you [TS]

  may have you may have just heard us [TS]

  talking about this for another movie are [TS]

  blurred and and and uh it's fascinating [TS]

  because they're interacting in her [TS]

  flashback while also obviously cut to [TS]

  she's telling them the story and its [TS]

  kind of delightful in the way that it's [TS]

  not your usual you know flashback with [TS]

  you know ripple dissolve to [TS]

  black-and-white of here's what happened [TS]

  instead they're like commenting on and [TS]

  and kind of like chasing the characters [TS]

  around through [TS]

  flashbacks and then it gets it gets even [TS]

  weirder as it as it goes to the point [TS]

  where you get really confused about how [TS]

  it could possibly be be happening and [TS]

  it's it's a yeah it's fascinating it had [TS]

  a guy i really like this i thought i [TS]

  thought that it was great and i love the [TS]

  blurring of reality and fantasy and it's [TS]

  a weird afterward my wife said so how [TS]

  was that my said it's a weird movie and [TS]

  she said it looked weird and I said yeah [TS]

  but it's really good it's really good [TS]

  really good [TS]

  I was really moved by it yeah oh yeah [TS]

  especially and what I love about the [TS]

  movie is how you said it opens up with [TS]

  with the misdirect but I i will say that [TS]

  it provides a beautiful bracketing but [TS]

  towards the end of the movie where he [TS]

  stands up its well that's bookings and [TS]

  she sums up he sums up what you come to [TS]

  realize about her and about the whole [TS]

  narrative and then she seems off into [TS]

  space and I thought what a beautiful [TS]

  metaphor for the end of the 20th century [TS]

  because this movie I feel like it's sort [TS]

  of a love letter to the people of Japan [TS]

  for everything they had to live through [TS]

  the 20th century and the things that [TS]

  they may have relied on to keep them [TS]

  going and when the journey becomes much [TS]

  more interesting than the destination [TS]

  and and you become much more optimistic [TS]

  about the future simply because you have [TS]

  a way to get there so I i was just [TS]

  incredibly moved by this movie [TS]

  yeah they're one of the reasons I i [TS]

  picked this as such a nice connection [TS]

  with perfect blue is all these things [TS]

  that we said the same that the female [TS]

  lead the mixing of reality and and you [TS]

  know film or fantasy or fiction and [TS]

  stuff like that seems to be just like [TS]

  all this is to know the two sides of the [TS]

  same coin but they're so incredibly [TS]

  different in tone like this is so much [TS]

  more playful and has an entirely [TS]

  different emotions field despite doing [TS]

  so many of the same things the other [TS]

  thing doesn't mixing together at her her [TS]

  work as an actress with her life [TS]

  yes so in in perfect blue she's reading [TS]

  lines at in the story that could very [TS]

  well be talking about either what her [TS]

  actual life is or what we think maybe is [TS]

  you know that the video we can tell [TS]

  issue talking about real life for her [TS]

  fantasy life or maybe your family life [TS]

  is her real life and it seems so [TS]

  on-the-nose right and in here in this [TS]

  movie [TS]

  did you do the same thing where she's in [TS]

  these movies she's playing you know a [TS]

  geisha girl she's playing a warrior [TS]

  princess she's doing whatever she's [TS]

  playing and the lines that she'd read [TS]

  you know because you've been listening [TS]

  to her retail her life are just entirely [TS]

  directly about her life and you're like [TS]

  oh that's how could the lines of the [TS]

  movies be directly about her life and I [TS]

  think that is a wonderful way to show [TS]

  what it feels like to be an actor [TS]

  because you know your actors always [TS]

  drawing on emotions in their own life or [TS]

  whatever and yeah they got their not [TS]

  saying lines that are that are like you [TS]

  know when my father left me when I was a [TS]

  child like if my lines in the movie they [TS]

  don't say but that's what it feels like [TS]

  to them so when we see her speaking [TS]

  these lines like everything is subtext [TS]

  this movie because the text is not the [TS]

  text about the text right and sometimes [TS]

  it seems like almost kind of corny were [TS]

  like out there wouldn't be a line in the [TS]

  mood so directly addresses the thing [TS]

  that she's going through her life right [TS]

  now but that's what it feels like if [TS]

  you're channeling those emotions into a [TS]

  nagging performance and of course we're [TS]

  only shown selected lines from it in and [TS]

  then like they just they just keep [TS]

  turning the crank to say okay are you [TS]

  still with us but we'll turn even [TS]

  farther you still with us now what about [TS]

  this what about this and you know he's [TS]

  saving her in the movies and at some [TS]

  point it's like danger and moving you're [TS]

  worried about how are you like when it's [TS]

  like this is the movie isnot she's not [TS]

  actually in danger and and like her you [TS]

  know the painter guys chasing after it [TS]

  like inside the movie but not really and [TS]

  you know is she telling a story about [TS]

  her own light real life in a train [TS]

  accident or is this a train accident in [TS]

  a movie right and when they get out of [TS]

  the train because they're surrounded [TS]

  their then in feudal Japan right so [TS]

  there's that element to of like well [TS]

  what is did she really did she go [TS]

  through a portal and step backward in [TS]

  time did the movie is it a science [TS]

  fiction movie that she's making or is [TS]

  this just another movie that happened a [TS]

  little bit later [TS]

  what's the but but the whole point of [TS]

  this movie is about the flexibility of [TS]

  memory and how sometimes memory makes [TS]

  things feel more real to you than what [TS]

  actually happened at the time and so [TS]

  over time your story of what happened [TS]

  and the story of your feelings becomes [TS]

  the truth it's also about how film is [TS]

  our film is our memory in some ways and [TS]

  film represents reality it and and then [TS]

  the next step beyond that it's also [TS]

  about like you said the history 20th [TS]

  century Japan and the way the movies the [TS]

  movies that she makes reflect that right [TS]

  right to the point where when she starts [TS]

  it's a you know they're shooting a movie [TS]

  in China [TS]

  there's a nationalistic you know cheap [TS]

  Japanese campaign to you in China and [TS]

  they've taken over portions of China [TS]

  pre-world War two is when they referred [TS]

  as Manchuria that brought me up for a [TS]

  moment yeah like God that's right and [TS]

  then yeah and then you start thinking [TS]

  about the rape of nanking and how for [TS]

  ordinary Japanese citizens they know [TS]

  nothing about this and and their [TS]

  perspective will be completely different [TS]

  which is all we have to make booster [TS]

  films and we have to support the troops [TS]

  and right and the Chinese were [TS]

  desperately fighting to keep these [TS]

  people out our are seen as these savages [TS]

  as opposed to although she's chasing a [TS]

  hippie painter who is anti-war yeah [TS]

  to be fair or what passes for a hippie [TS]

  in nineteen thirties Japan revolutionary [TS]

  this is one of the hit the other comp [TS]

  you a very common thing anime and how [TS]

  could it not be an end its represented [TS]

  better in this movie than perfect blue [TS]

  out so this movie has a building shaking [TS]

  events that punctuate the movie its [TS]

  specific moments [TS]

  Matt both man-made and earthquakes and [TS]

  Japan's fault lines you know and [TS]

  everything but then you've got the world [TS]

  war two firebombing and all that other [TS]

  stuff right and how its how can any art [TS]

  made by Japan post-war to not be about [TS]

  like at the very very bottom like not [TS]

  have liked the war atomic bombs like [TS]

  that is such an incredible theme [TS]

  throughout all of anime and it's like [TS]

  it's kind of you know cliche like oh oh [TS]

  you know Japanese every one of the [TS]

  movies about a nuclear bomb so they did [TS]

  have the two of the city's growing up I [TS]

  was like like yeah it's like saying you [TS]

  don't respect it's like saying all [TS]

  Western literature is like so much stuff [TS]

  based on the bible it's so try to like [TS]

  that all you know this [TS]

  there's a reason for that like it's it's [TS]

  it's such a theme in the movies and this [TS]

  is this is one that uses those themes [TS]

  with with the earthquakes and and you [TS]

  know all the war 15 to 20 years from now [TS]

  someone's gonna go back and go a lot of [TS]

  American pop culture was really [TS]

  obsessing over terrorism and secret [TS]

  betrayals and buildings falling down and [TS]

  and well can't they get over that [TS]

  come on you're the only nation on the [TS]

  planet to get nuked yeah at and I feel [TS]

  like this is this movie is about it in [TS]

  in a in a beautiful and subtle way like [TS]

  making life because it's about her [TS]

  personal like these these earthquakes [TS]

  and events have to do with like that [TS]

  11 happens at the end of the movie the [TS]

  dance ends up sending into the hospital [TS]

  is the one that that in the beginning [TS]

  with it interrupts the the buses name [TS]

  jenya from from watching the movie at [TS]

  this is a young version of him saving [TS]

  her in the earthquake that sort of ends [TS]

  her career when she loses the key right [TS]

  and fought the light great lighting [TS]

  break falls on her is the actual total [TS]

  destruction of the studio by [TS]

  construction equipment destruction of [TS]

  the studio by firebombing by you know us [TS]

  bombers that theme but just you know [TS]

  repeated in this movie several different [TS]

  times kind of look like I feel like this [TS]

  movie gets away with so much that would [TS]

  be corny or ham-fisted because it's just [TS]

  so good-natured and fun and I like we're [TS]

  just going to feel these emotions [TS]

  together and we're not gonna take [TS]

  anything too seriously but there is real [TS]

  deep emotion like it's not it's not [TS]

  wacky and silly it strikes the right [TS]

  balance and that's why I feel like it [TS]

  it carries you with it to get that big [TS]

  payoff at the end when she you know goes [TS]

  off into into a hyperspace [TS]

  tony is still out there i'm still here [TS]

  what do you think [TS]

  um I guess I i did not like this movie [TS]

  is jaha uh haha i I've only seen it once [TS]

  and that was today so maybe it will be [TS]

  different when I revisit it [TS]

  I mean I think I picked up on a lot of [TS]

  it but perhaps some of it you know i was [TS]

  missed by and I think I particular i did [TS]

  not like kind of the insertion of the [TS]

  filmmakers or said and you know his [TS]

  cameraman kind of into this i don't know [TS]

  that that didn't work for me um like [TS]

  that they they did that and I was like [TS]

  is are they gonna keep doing this [TS]

  because i don't i don't want that mean [TS]

  well that's going to turn you off from [TS]

  the movie yeah and they kinda and I was [TS]

  like you know and they like I kind of [TS]

  liked work the when they went to the [TS]

  scene that was kind of from his [TS]

  perspective right and and he was talking [TS]

  to you know where we saw him his mini [TS]

  career with the studio but there i think [TS]

  it was especially kind of the secondary [TS]

  character of the of the cameraman who [TS]

  was really kind of just their kind of [TS]

  for comedic purposes kind of slapstick e [TS]

  comedic purposes that really kind of [TS]

  that broke that for me I didn't love the [TS]

  cameraman he's definitely a tie-pin [TS]

  animate the the disinterested assistant [TS]

  you know salary men [TS]

  you know too-cool-for-school kind of [TS]

  thing but like they bring him around at [TS]

  the end too because he is a man anime [TS]

  character which you may not know if you [TS]

  don't watch a lot of anime but then by [TS]

  the end of the movie he's actually [TS]

  interested in hurst as they're driving [TS]

  to the hospital he's he has come around [TS]

  fight like you see a finally a crack in [TS]

  that cynical kind of have to be here [TS]

  doing this no you know I mean and you [TS]

  know it's they're both they're both [TS]

  characters like the guys so enthusiastic [TS]

  and he loves you know his favorite [TS]

  actress and like but you mean youyou the [TS]

  bind to that are you doing business this [TS]

  is that this is that kind of movie is [TS]

  the kind of movie admit it you know is [TS]

  going to be over-the-top and it's going [TS]

  to do corny things and it's gonna do [TS]

  ham-fisted things and you that you [TS]

  either you either buy it or you don't [TS]

  and I've got this with the movie i [TS]

  actually have recommended to a lot of [TS]

  people who say they're not into anime [TS]

  and some people are just completely [TS]

  bounces often it's just too weird for [TS]

  other people it can if it catches you [TS]

  you're doing because it knows exactly [TS]

  where it's going to take you and it [TS]

  brings you straight through and pops you [TS]

  out the other side and I'm all the anime [TS]

  movies i have this is the most likely 12 [TS]

  cause people to be crying at the end of [TS]

  it was just something something from you [TS]

  know that anime tends not to have that [TS]

  reputation but this movie of all the [TS]

  ones of my collection can actually do it [TS]

  but if specifically if you don't let it [TS]

  never doesn't it doesn't grab you that's [TS]

  not gonna happen i'm just gonna be this [TS]

  weird movie where nothing happens [TS]

  I mean I i found it touching but i think [TS]

  yeah I don't think I was grabbed and I [TS]

  guess I thought perfect blue was a prep [TS]

  better but I guess I'm well that's [TS]

  certainly more to grab you in perfectly [TS]

  like if it's more it is definitely like [TS]

  it nothing happens the millennium [TS]

  actress something happens when people [TS]

  like very little trip you know it's the [TS]

  story of and i think i think i caught [TS]

  onto pretty early on you know that [TS]

  wasn't good at you know there wasn't [TS]

  gonna be like a twister or you know [TS]

  there wasn't so much gonna be like a [TS]

  point of tension that was gonna go [TS]

  murder my lit yeah there was no murder [TS]

  you know I I kind of figured the other [TS]

  the hippie you know in that you know a [TS]

  few million in Japan but you know she's [TS]

  being interviewed her old age probably [TS]

  like you know the revolutionaries not [TS]

  hang out in her backyard was gonna walk [TS]

  have you met my gardener but that's the [TS]

  thing if this movie catches you like you [TS]

  people will find themselves like like [TS]

  you know she's not going to see that guy [TS]

  again but you occasionally like find [TS]

  yourself hoping you know like that [TS]

  that it could happen but like it'll suck [TS]

  it'll suck you into it like the [TS]

  documentary filmmakers is you know his [TS]

  long-lost son or something right or just [TS]

  like the story of they finally met and [TS]

  they want to i know she never saw again [TS]

  he was killed was actually died [TS]

  no it'sit's a better story than all of [TS]

  that they were just parts of it that [TS]

  didn't grab me and you know already [TS]

  watching l.o.l won't wait as long as it [TS]

  I've waited to rewatch perfect blue but [TS]

  maybe it'll be different you have to be [TS]

  in the mood for both of these movies and [TS]

  definitely this one you have to be kind [TS]

  of it you know they were assigned [TS]

  reading that was the bad you have to be [TS]

  in a chill mood for ideas but my teacher [TS]

  told me to do I tell you watching [TS]

  watching my pad while you're flying to [TS]

  your vacation because really the primary [TS]

  way to do it yeah i did did not take the [TS]

  recommended dosage yeah so so the [TS]

  animation stylist move against very [TS]

  similar to a perfect blue kind of a [TS]

  realistic style but if you look closer [TS]

  not really realistic but i thought like [TS]

  the yeah if they have you know that one [TS]

  of the oscars for like you know costume [TS]

  design and seven declaration and stuff [TS]

  like the period the capability to [TS]

  capture these different periods just [TS]

  like even just like me the way what's [TS]

  her name [TS]

  heo co is drawn from like as a child to [TS]

  to sort of a young ingĂ©nue two more [TS]

  seasoned actress a trendy hairstyles are [TS]

  closed how she carries herself for [TS]

  demeanor the surrounding so everything [TS]

  about it is just beautiful that I [TS]

  thought that was it that was kind of an [TS]

  element that work particularly well as [TS]

  an animation right i mean if they hadn't [TS]

  as a live-action you have three days the [TS]

  actors and all that and instead they're [TS]

  able to age her [TS]

  yeah he even with makeup and things like [TS]

  that it wouldn't kind of have felt the [TS]

  same way especially when they were doing [TS]

  all the things with a kind of quick [TS]

  cutting back and forth between the [TS]

  different eras toward the end and that [TS]

  that really wouldn't have worked as I [TS]

  can take you out of it and and yeah it [TS]

  was distracting in great movies like you [TS]

  know if you can you can pause a great [TS]

  movie and like what you see up on the [TS]

  screen that could be a work of art well [TS]

  you know the animation is literally that [TS]

  like you know in the best case it's 24 [TS]

  beautiful your own pictures every second [TS]

  and I i did this is one of the reasons [TS]

  that I don't know what we should talk [TS]

  about why don't like comic books on [TS]

  different podcasts maybe some other time [TS]

  know about Admiral Amanda you know like [TS]

  there are the motion and fluidity of [TS]

  these drawings like it's step above [TS]

  having that there's one drawing but a [TS]

  series of the night and I feel like each [TS]

  one of [TS]

  any frame from this movie you know it's [TS]

  just so beautifully realised not because [TS]

  it's very complicated they're simple [TS]

  background there you know that is a [TS]

  painting is themselves over like if you [TS]

  know the tricks like it's not it's not [TS]

  you know it's not like studio ghibli [TS]

  where you realize these poor suckers [TS]

  some guy spent like a year doing that [TS]

  background screen for three seconds and [TS]

  that you know these are made more [TS]

  cheaply than those those big budget [TS]

  movies but there's still enough artistry [TS]

  in the way they draw these characters in [TS]

  the surroundings and how they move and [TS]

  and everything that you know I I just [TS]

  appreciate that I appreciate that more [TS]

  than I would a great live-action movies [TS]

  much love light actually sometimes like [TS]

  when watching animated movie that that's [TS]

  like the pinnacle of moving pictures is [TS]

  when someone draws every single one of [TS]

  them [TS]

  this was yeah I so I i really did I [TS]

  really did like it [TS]

  millennium actress and and was surprised [TS]

  and I did get fished in by the opening [TS]

  where i'm watching the weird sci-fi [TS]

  moonbase move he that turns out to be [TS]

  her last [TS]

  her last [TS]

  her last film and i love the echoes of a [TS]

  real-life actors and actresses i know [TS]

  this is apparently based on a on a on a [TS]

  Japanese actress but that either echoes [TS]

  of this and a lot of actors of this [TS]

  generation where their lifespan sort of [TS]

  like early days of film and then you [TS]

  know inevitably they're the sort of [TS]

  embarrassing period pieces at the end of [TS]

  their career and-and the moonbase movie [TS]

  is obviously hers and yet in the end it [TS]

  becomes this really touching moment [TS]

  because it's representing her the end of [TS]

  the end of her life and so yeah I [TS]

  thought it was great [TS]

  I I don't have much to say about it i [TS]

  guess the other one just because I i [TS]

  really liked it and I liked how the PM [TS]

  it kept me off balance with the reality [TS]

  versus fantasy all kind of rolling [TS]

  together and in the end it was all about [TS]

  her life and and a weather was in her [TS]

  life or in her films it was all about [TS]

  her life and the reason you have to [TS]

  watch is in this order is because you [TS]

  want to end with the feeling that you [TS]

  have at the end of letting actress even [TS]

  though perfect blue has more or less a [TS]

  happy ending [TS]

  you don't want that to be like you know [TS]

  the final the final taste in your mouth [TS]

  is this is like I don't want that to be [TS]

  the last thing i want for anything [TS]

  it was perfect John because i watch [TS]

  millennium actress and I had that [TS]

  feeling and then I stepped off the plane [TS]

  and I was in hawaii for eight days and [TS]

  you're my favorite blue in your back [TS]

  door and I stepped I stepped off the [TS]

  plane and it was 20 degrees colder and [TS]

  in California in February so maybe it [TS]

  works for me what it [TS]

  yeah at least at least you got my name [TS]

  access to send you off into a y ya know [TS]

  those great any other final thoughts [TS]

  about about millennium actress before we [TS]

  wrap up that's actually the 1i would [TS]

  show to my husband [TS]

  oh yeah he like it yeah i think you [TS]

  would like a person he would I think [TS]

  this is the one you showed people who [TS]

  don't get autumn a if you're just tuning [TS]

  in this be you're listening to the what [TS]

  will we show Phil podcast haha it's the [TS]

  sequel to lex hasn't seen it yet this [TS]

  this I i think i think it would like it [TS]

  because a there's the whole you know [TS]

  period film history of the 20th century [TS]

  seen through the lives of somebody you [TS]

  know the people who lived through it and [TS]

  you know there's a lot of interesting [TS]

  stuff here that that's about it it's not [TS]

  just a character [TS]

  study and it's not just about Japan and [TS]

  it's not just about the 20th century and [TS]

  and but it's about all those things and [TS]

  it's it's like I like the ambition of [TS]

  that too that this is a the animated [TS]

  feature that is you know about a lot of [TS]

  things that maybe you're told better as [TS]

  animation but are not things we [TS]

  traditionally expect from animation at [TS]

  and the thing is i think this means this [TS]

  story would never get greenlit in [TS]

  Hollywood because added to route it's [TS]

  about a young girl who forms at a an [TS]

  early attachment to this man that she's [TS]

  never gonna see again pines over her her [TS]

  whole life and it turns out he's [TS]

  actually dead and like like Ben there's [TS]

  nothing like this snoring cells is so [TS]

  just like nothing happens it's silly if [TS]

  you look at it objectively like she's on [TS]

  point with it why she whining about this [TS]

  is not unrealistic an adult would get [TS]

  overlooked but that's not like animated [TS]

  once it a lot of a japanese animation [TS]

  wants to get at the heart of like the [TS]

  emotional truth not so much the [TS]

  intellectual truth and if you watch the [TS]

  movie and look at how she gets married [TS]

  to that kind of you know lame studio [TS]

  head sungai she falls into that marriage [TS]

  and kind of goes into the normal life [TS]

  it's it's it's putting the inner the [TS]

  inner emotional life of that a lot of [TS]

  people have is on the outside and then [TS]

  the normal life that people have on the [TS]

  outside of the inside in this movie you [TS]

  know I mean so from her perspective [TS]

  she's always that little girl chasing [TS]

  after that guy but on the outside choose [TS]

  an act famous actor she's married to [TS]

  this guy that have a normal life she [TS]

  find out he was hiding the key on her so [TS]

  it's kind of like a betrayal or whatever [TS]

  but i don't think anyone would make this [TS]

  storyline over later to talk about the [TS]

  historical things like that that would [TS]

  just be too you know [TS]

  two out in the ether like it's never [TS]

  gonna sell you can never make this even [TS]

  in the world of anime this movie isnot I [TS]

  don't know how well-known is like it's [TS]

  not easy to find they didn't even make [TS]

  an English double this movie I don't [TS]

  think like it's not even popular enough [TS]

  they're even gonna bother to do that so [TS]

  it is kind of like our house [TS]

  roofie you know it's not it's not [TS]

  mainstream but this is exactly the kind [TS]

  of movie that that I like for my anime [TS]

  which is why when I i I'm i don't claim [TS]

  that i am a you know anime fan because [TS]

  most people's definition what that means [TS]

  though what you like [TS]

  popular series populations popular [TS]

  series and like actually don't like any [TS]

  of those and [TS]

  yeah I like these weird movies but i [TS]

  really like the great movies I like I'm [TS]

  a pretty narrow sub-genre automatic like [TS]

  in most of it is is with this be out of [TS]

  place in a william gibson universe and [TS]

  huh well serial experiments lain is [TS]

  about virtual reality not identity and [TS]

  then you've got some ghost in the shell [TS]

  words the same thing it's the it's the [TS]

  thin line between cyborg and human and [TS]

  it all goes back to this very nineteen [TS]

  eighties nineteen nineties one of the [TS]

  best whether the boundaries of humanity [TS]

  thing but other than that I'm i want to [TS]

  thank you John for broadening my [TS]

  horizons with millennium actress because [TS]

  i'd i would have discovered it on my own [TS]

  and I really liked it and do to you for [TS]

  free Jason now having seen two movies by [TS]

  this one guy yet would you it would you [TS]

  seek out more work by the same person in [TS]

  the same way like you watch aj bring [TS]

  something like all that JJ abrams got [TS]

  you i love this lens flares and they're [TS]

  good [TS]

  ya know what this is I'm up I'm up to [TS]

  two now because I've seen I i have to [TS]

  animate directors I've seen now because [TS]

  it's being sake and masatoshi con yes i [TS]

  would watch his other movies absolutely [TS]

  too bad he's dead and can't make anymore [TS]

  just yes but there's paprika paprika all [TS]

  because of you [TS]

  it's got killed you're not actually your [TS]

  fault no i did not give him pancreatic [TS]

  cannot unfortunately I think these are [TS]

  his two best but now you know you start [TS]

  at the top [TS]

  alright that's that's fine yeah but it [TS]

  yeah i think this was I think this was [TS]

  great i appreciate I appreciate the [TS]

  suggestions you're gonna have to pick [TS]

  something else for us to watch again [TS]

  well then we're gonna you know this is [TS]

  the beginner class gonna go in 101 with [TS]

  investor syracuse right we have to now [TS]

  we get worse [TS]

  you know perfectly was a little bit [TS]

  challenging to get you off balance but [TS]

  now we'll go maybe into and put more [TS]

  challenging means this stuff you're less [TS]

  likely to like uh huh [TS]

  don't get all excited fine what's the [TS]

  weed out course [TS]

  yeah yeah it's like you're giving should [TS]

  make sure you're serious [TS]

  that's right and then after that it's [TS]

  all blue skies but you gotta get that [TS]

  the tough sledding in there it will [TS]

  watch fruits basket over and over again [TS]

  so so we should talk about we should [TS]

  talk about where we could where people [TS]

  could get these if they're interested in [TS]

  washing them [TS]

  my understanding is that they're both of [TS]

  available they seem to not be available [TS]

  digitally you know as as a stream but [TS]

  they seem to both be available on DVD is [TS]

  that right choice i I've look as you [TS]

  might imagine that man or maybe you [TS]

  don't imagine i've been looking for [TS]

  blu-ray version of all the movies that i [TS]

  really love and these are among them and [TS]

  i cannot find you can find a legal [TS]

  blu-rays of like chinese things with [TS]

  russian subtitles that are like probably [TS]

  just blu-ray version of the DVD terrible [TS]

  like but no official region 1 blu-ray [TS]

  release to my knowledge but feel free to [TS]

  correct me but you I think you can still [TS]

  get the region one dvds of both of these [TS]

  that's what I have perfect blue amazon [TS]

  claims there is a real import blu-ray [TS]

  yeah I know but I when I see that I [TS]

  think yes it's probably imported and yes [TS]

  it's probably a blu-ray but it's real [TS]

  it's in a box and ever is it it's not it [TS]

  is it produced by the studio that was [TS]

  the right yeah that's a good question a [TS]

  remaster it isn't you know it's really [TS]

  hard to tell with that stuff we read the [TS]

  comments on there like this looks the [TS]

  same as the back in my day we had to [TS]

  walk and get bootleg on email on VHS [TS]

  that have been subtitled by second-year [TS]

  jacket Japanese majors it was hard to [TS]

  read [TS]

  we liked it that way now i have i have [TS]

  my share of that as well [TS]

  by the way the one thing that's gonna [TS]

  stick with me more than anything else [TS]

  from from perfect blue is gonna be that [TS]

  moment where her her doppelganger [TS]

  suddenly his roomie who is a little as [TS]

  plump [TS]

  yeah whereas wearing my skinny but she's [TS]

  wearing that same that same kind of [TS]

  school girl out on stage outfit boy that [TS]

  is a hilarious moment for it but yeah oh [TS]

  yeah she's crazy [TS]

  the depredations really good insanity [TS]

  yeah just wearing the outfit that [TS]

  doesn't fit her just friends good mad [TS]

  that's that was a really funny moment [TS]

  alright well John you did it to us [TS]

  you made us watch anime has promised [TS]

  enriching your lives reason I appreciate [TS]

  it [TS]

  I i enjoyed it I I I have no complaints [TS]

  I i enjoyed when when you force fed me [TS]

  my diet of the miyazaki movies I hadn't [TS]

  seen either it's good [TS]

  it helps to have a guide honestly and i [TS]

  said this on our miyazaki episodes to [TS]

  something like anime which there are [TS]

  is the huge fan culture of and there are [TS]

  a million different things to watch and [TS]

  its kind of impenetrable it's very hard [TS]

  to figure out what to watch and where to [TS]

  start and how you know what things you [TS]

  get the sense almost that you're either [TS]

  you're either in all the way or you [TS]

  shouldn't go in and that's wrong because [TS]

  in reality any genre is going to have [TS]

  its great material and it's good [TS]

  material and it's mediocre material and [TS]

  I i love to sample the great i may not [TS]

  get the appreciation of somebody who's [TS]

  seen it all and seeing the terrible [TS]

  stuff and knows all the tropes and all [TS]

  that but that doesn't necessarily mean [TS]

  that there aren't 10 or 20 great films [TS]

  and you know five or ten great TV series [TS]

  that are worth watching even if you're [TS]

  an outsider like me so it's been fun to [TS]

  to dip into it with these remember [TS]

  remember your saying this then when [TS]

  you're exercising its kind for my next [TS]

  assignment for the when where [TS]

  when it when anime 102 comes along [TS]

  yeah that's the weed out course Tony [TS]

  says that's when I 21 i think to a 10 [TS]

  we're gonna go to upper division of [TS]

  bringing we're gonna ask a lot more of [TS]

  you Jason [TS]

  yeah the homework and we're going to [TS]

  have to actually do the reading one book [TS]

  anymore James home in right they'll be [TS]

  five papers the semester I don't eat [TS]

  Japanese that's okay I'll just play hmm [TS]

  songs in the background and will keep me [TS]

  away because it's like injecting sugar [TS]

  right into your veins [TS]

  alright well this is great we will do [TS]

  more of this down the road once John [TS]

  choose what to assign to us inflicted on [TS]

  us [TS]

  it says it's his decision he's in charge [TS]

  he's the boss he makes the rules we just [TS]

  follow we're just puppets that's we [TS]

  dance dance for John and watch these [TS]

  movies we danced to cham yes that's [TS]

  right [TS]

  seh am all capital letters ! so until [TS]

  next time i'd like to thank my guests my [TS]

  fellow students [TS]

  Lisa Schmeisser great to have you on as [TS]

  always it was so much fun thank you know [TS]

  this was great and Tony sindelar thanks [TS]

  for having me thank you for coming back [TS]

  and watching all these movies [TS]

  anytime and professor siracusa would you [TS]

  like to have the last word i'm proud to [TS]

  have all of you as my students but [TS]

  beware this course will be graded on a [TS]

  curve so only one person is getting in a [TS]

  exactly and it's probably gonna be Lisa [TS]

  proud of some is that that's gonna gonna [TS]

  be Lisa until next time uncomfortable I [TS]

  am hopefully the B student Jason L [TS]

  signing off see you next time [TS]