Roderick on the Line

Ep. 279: "Mr. Hot Tub"


  he's definitely shaking and when I saw [TS]

  them in 1999 I thought it was just [TS]

  terrific there there was a there's a [TS]

  famous moment indelibly burned into my [TS]

  head of us on tour with Death Cab in 98 [TS]

  hurricane hurricane and we're in Arizona [TS]

  we're at a show in you know like at at [TS]

  some strip mall in Phoenix and death [TS]

  cabs on stage and it's not a stage right [TS]

  it's like a cement floor dais [TS]

  yeah where they took the PA or they took [TS]

  the they took like your practice PA but [TS]

  they turned it around to the audience [TS]

  and we're we're there watching them play [TS]

  and their merch guy a guy named little [TS]

  Rob everybody just called him little Rob [TS]

  Li L he starts to do the Ben Gibbard [TS]

  guitar dance and you know we're at weird [TS]

  view of the stage and he's just [TS]

  perfectly but he's not even looking at [TS]

  the stage he's got his back to them but [TS]

  he's just perfectly doing that that [TS]

  thing that you're describing like [TS]

  shuffle swing it is like he's spent [TS]

  slightly back and his shoulders are [TS]

  moving in compliment with the way that [TS]

  his hips are moving with a very wide [TS]

  open posture mm-hmm and the guitar is a [TS]

  component of it and it's yeah it's like [TS]

  it's like Elvis if you left all the [TS]

  hangers in this in his suits and and and [TS]

  it's just like we all from that point on [TS]

  we all tried to perfect [TS]

  after seeing will Rob do such a great [TS]

  job of it we all try to perfect our Ben [TS]

  Gibbard dance and I think there's I [TS]

  think I'll I'll hop into it once or [TS]

  twice during a set just it just is a [TS]

  little homage or the tip of the hat to a [TS]

  little kind of like one two one two [TS]

  I think I think that the the music video [TS]

  for flock of seagulls the the first two [TS]

  videos they caused such a sensation [TS]

  because of that guy's hair yeah that it [TS]

  he's remembered for having the swoopy [TS]

  hair from the second video but in the [TS]

  first one oh god there's a phrase I [TS]

  can't use anymore [TS]

  um more art school hair one would say [TS]

  and and yeah that meet me at McDonald's [TS]

  kind of haircut he's got like the he's [TS]

  got the swirly I can kind of up on top [TS]

  and then you got the camera with the [TS]

  garbage bag like garbage bags in that [TS]

  video well that was a that was an easy [TS]

  special effect to use in garbage bags [TS]

  and then you take a couple of box fans [TS]

  [Laughter] [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  you can't see me doing this he's holding [TS]

  down like like in like a probably an a [TS]

  with one finger and then he's the other [TS]

  fingers way up in the air but there's [TS]

  been that had three great Tunes oh yes [TS]

  this is love song is legitimately good [TS]

  song but they're like not in that [TS]

  they're not thought of in that serious [TS]

  rank of 80s you know they're those songs [TS]

  are as good as any Gary Numan tune oh I [TS]

  see yeah yeah I get what you're saying [TS]

  yeah yeah we're like there was this this [TS]

  Rat King of like especially English like [TS]

  new wave bands and New Romantic bands [TS]

  and like some of them are much it's much [TS]

  cooler to still like this band than that [TS]

  band I mean it's hard I mean you know [TS]

  soft-sell was serious but Culture Club [TS]

  was not and it's a little and it has a [TS]

  lot to do with hair style that I think [TS]

  now maybe even now with the [TS]

  proliferation Altima proliferation of [TS]

  images that we have I think you would be [TS]

  less influenced by how a band looked [TS]

  then we were in 1983 watching those [TS]

  music videos discount something that is [TS]

  a third rail but should be discussed at [TS]

  least living in Florida I am NOT proud [TS]

  of this by a longshot but there was also [TS]

  a lot of consideration about [TS]

  I don't know how to use this word [TS]

  whether they seemed gay and I don't mean [TS]

  that they they like people of the same [TS]

  gender [TS]

  sexually I just meant they're people [TS]

  like the people who are listening to [TS]

  Lynyrd Skynyrd would see that you were [TS]

  into mark almond and that seemed kind of [TS]

  gay and I think I think that had a huge [TS]

  effect in a lot of ways even with like [TS]

  Duran Duran like you like oh these guys [TS]

  are so fruity and that was you'd feel [TS]

  like a little East I felt like a little [TS]

  twinge of like oh I don't know if it's [TS]

  okay to be into this Dan because they're [TS]

  not tough and cool which is weird [TS]

  considering that Bon Jovi you know like [TS]

  there's an awful lot of signaling in Bon [TS]

  Jovi that is directed at you know it's [TS]

  like the the transition that bands made [TS]

  to because I mean even Van Halen [TS]

  absolutely in the mid 70s you know [TS]

  there's that famous story where van [TS]

  Halen played like big day out in Texas [TS]

  where all the other bands were Molly [TS]

  Hatchet and ZZ Top and it was they [TS]

  probably seemed everybody but Mike [TS]

  probably seems very androgynous for the [TS]

  time well it freaked him out the people [TS]

  the folks in Texas who were just like [TS]

  that rock and roll concert and it was [TS]

  like everybody else was in denim and [TS]

  cowboy boots right and out comes van [TS]

  Halen just like yeah yeah you know it's [TS]

  very very like unapologetically [TS]

  California at the very least but I do [TS]

  think there was also I mean music was so [TS]

  it was so siloed the difference between [TS]

  a band that was for girls and for boys [TS]

  was really big for me like I had a [TS]

  really hard this is one of the things [TS]

  one of the reasons that I never got into [TS]

  the Smiths was I just felt like the [TS]

  Smiths was my sister's band and that [TS]

  style of singing in that style of [TS]

  looking and that style of being was [TS]

  pandering to girls and it wasn't serious [TS]

  it wasn't like serious minded because it [TS]

  was so true [TS]

  parents to me that it was meant to make [TS]

  teenage girls cry and I could I was just [TS]

  not in and it might have been a hundred [TS]

  percent different if I had known one [TS]

  person who said this is really serious [TS]

  music but as it was it was just like it [TS]

  just felt it felt like the Smiths were [TS]

  pandering were like a were an extension [TS]

  of Duran Duran right you think you think [TS]

  about like Paul Young would be one you [TS]

  already know Culture Club Paul Young but [TS]

  you know Paul Young had some really some [TS]

  some pretty like was a song I don't you [TS]

  come back and like he had some really [TS]

  good pop songs and he did that that [TS]

  weird Joy Division cover but you're [TS]

  right there were there were ones that [TS]

  felt like there were bands for boys and [TS]

  pants for girls right you know like [TS]

  that's Steely Dan being an extreme [TS]

  example but yeah I totally agree but [TS]

  like now when you look back like there [TS]

  do seem to be these bands that like in [TS]

  retrospect I think a huge one that [TS]

  nobody talks about much is like screw D [TS]

  politi but there are these bands that [TS]

  age surprisingly well that like at the [TS]

  time you might have thought oh this is [TS]

  pretty pretty light light pop but you [TS]

  know it does stand up we talked about [TS]

  this once before was it here on another [TS]

  show where I made this playlist of like [TS]

  I'll put it in well we don't have chance [TS]

  for the show I'll put it in anyway but [TS]

  list of like a new wave that still [TS]

  stands up in my opinion like where the [TS]

  songs have good bones or where they were [TS]

  doing something that was new and [TS]

  substantial like I think there's there's [TS]

  still so much stuff from there but [TS]

  you're right that the gender stuff and [TS]

  the sexual politics stuff was was giant [TS]

  I mean like you're not gonna want the [TS]

  time you could not be a straight guy in [TS]

  Florida who was really into Tom Robinson [TS]

  band publicly like that was not gonna [TS]

  happen [TS]

  haircut 100 is an example of a band that [TS]

  was really very very very put together [TS]

  that's that a lot going on like stuff [TS]

  going on totally but like a but but yeah [TS]

  there were a million reasons why you [TS]

  would look at that and say that's a band [TS]

  for girls absolutely in fact it was like [TS]

  there were even then like I was really [TS]

  into the song so you know there was [TS]

  always it was always like a [TS]

  you could go either way and I think I [TS]

  always even when flock of seagulls was [TS]

  the most reviled I could not get away [TS]

  from the power of their hooks I always [TS]

  what they were doing I mean they were [TS]

  doing what they intended to do very well [TS]

  you know here's another one I'm just [TS]

  gonna send it I don't know I'm not sure [TS]

  what the critical reputation at this [TS]

  point is this is as much - Trevor Horn [TS]

  as anybody but go back and listen to the [TS]

  title song from the look of love by ABC [TS]

  that's a look that's the look the look [TS]

  of love is such a very finely crafted [TS]

  and executed pop song it's it's got [TS]

  parts it's got hooks and hooks and more [TS]

  hooks it's it's just it's it's such a [TS]

  beautiful I don't say a masterpiece but [TS]

  it's such a piece of work as a pop song [TS]

  I know it I know it's probably true but [TS]

  I could ABC was in my list of no thank [TS]

  you [TS]

  right right over there with men without [TS]

  hats I didn't want either thing and it [TS]

  didn't matter how much you you said like [TS]

  ABC they're amazing because I knew they [TS]

  were even then you could tell that they [TS]

  were like dynamite yeah but I can't tell [TS]

  me how Hollywood another Trevor Horn [TS]

  joint loved Frankie just the honking [TS]

  this cuz that was just a little bit [TS]

  later that was like what 84 85 well no [TS]

  because Frankie had so much attitude [TS]

  they said relax and it felt like [TS]

  watching them at least felt like a like [TS]

  a gang like Adam in the ants right where [TS]

  Frankie him Frankie and they seemed is [TS]

  he dangerous fouling the neighborhood [TS]

  but they were also like super [TS]

  unapologetically gay and openly gay in a [TS]

  way that was aggressively gay that took [TS]

  that was like headline-grabbing mmm-hmm [TS]

  and it just felt like yeah fuck you [TS]

  that's right goddamn right and I just [TS]

  felt like their Tunes were were I mean [TS]

  it's hard to say they were I mean the [TS]

  truth is like again Trevor Horn like the [TS]

  stuff that that guy has done for for [TS]

  bands is you know in that case I mean [TS]

  nothing against the Frankie Goes to [TS]

  Hollywood band there they're very [TS]

  interesting they had a great look but [TS]

  like their songs we're not particularly [TS]

  substantial but like they have to say [TS]

  that a great sound that a great sound [TS]

  and they and that's exactly that that's [TS]

  right the sound was great like the way [TS]

  that the way that their big hit kind of [TS]

  trails off at the end was the last thing [TS]

  you hear is like sounds of files and the [TS]

  sound of miles ABBA [TS]

  Babbitt did like two tribes I'm not sure [TS]

  two tribes necessarily hangs together as [TS]

  a great political statement but like it [TS]

  was so big it was so big right if you [TS]

  sat down and tried to play it on the [TS]

  acoustic guitar I don't seven-inch of an [TS]

  emotions obsession obsession [TS]

  I bought the 7-inch and everything about [TS]

  it like at that point in my life there [TS]

  is no way I should have bought the [TS]

  7-inch of that record because I hated [TS]

  that music video they're freaky they're [TS]

  I mean they're like there's something [TS]

  wrong can be pretty campy but but even [TS]

  the way they're looking at you that the [TS]

  camera is just like no no no don't [TS]

  invite those people into your house but [TS]

  put the tune I just really liked it and [TS]

  I couldn't I couldn't explain it I [TS]

  wouldn't defend it it's very catchy yeah [TS]

  I never would have told a friend that I [TS]

  had it towed up Berlin pleasure and pre [TS]

  pre pre top gun pleasure victim era [TS]

  Berlin one of the great bands they had [TS]

  that ep I think was an EP with the sex [TS]

  i'ma song on it and then they had [TS]

  pleasure victim I think masquerade is a [TS]

  very good song I think I think that is [TS]

  before its time that was some very [TS]

  strong music it's super strong and the [TS]

  thing about it is that whole record I'm [TS]

  talking about when this is this is way [TS]

  way not we're not talking about the the [TS]

  Top Gun [TS]

  version of Berlin that still seems like [TS]

  it feels like years after I stopped [TS]

  listening to Berlin but I guess it was [TS]

  like a year after I was really into [TS]

  Berlin but that the their record love [TS]

  life which came out in 84 but which I [TS]

  didn't wanna get into until 80 [TS]

  seven even that record and it's the one [TS]

  that has no more words oh that's a good [TS]

  song but the whole record is good it's [TS]

  just Oh dancing in Berlin that's a good [TS]

  song yeah it's good it's just like a [TS]

  major years wait so it's two years after [TS]

  pleasure pleasure if it comes 1982 dude [TS]

  no oh the metro oh my god [TS]

  I remember hating you for loving me that [TS]

  what that was as influential on me as [TS]

  cars by Gary Numan I mean I know for me [TS]

  or for me Adam in the ants these like [TS]

  just unabashedly melodramatic songs I [TS]

  just hate him with a spoon they sounded [TS]

  like the future absolutely that you know [TS]

  because what was happening in metal at [TS]

  that time was was that everybody had [TS]

  gone to pentatonic or everybody had gone [TS]

  to this idea this like this dead-end [TS]

  idea that without what metal was gonna [TS]

  be was classical music the classical [TS]

  music of art and the new weight stuff [TS]

  was definitely on point but it was it [TS]

  was consolidating into something very [TS]

  very tight and not particularly weird [TS]

  but it was it was getting I mean like I [TS]

  mean what do you say about iron made one [TS]

  from that time like this stuff was [TS]

  amazing it was amazing but it didn't [TS]

  feel like the future right it felt like [TS]

  a height of what had happened before and [TS]

  so like it was it was still connected to [TS]

  dungeons and dragons it felt like like [TS]

  like our music probably same for Judas [TS]

  Priest maybe yeah I think so it's just [TS]

  like leather and studs and like you know [TS]

  this is music about dragons whereas and [TS]

  a lot of New Wave just felt like oh this [TS]

  is just pop music with keyboards but [TS]

  some tunes and I feel like flock of [TS]

  seagulls in Berlin fall into this [TS]

  category captured the feeling of the [TS]

  future where where it felt cold that's [TS]

  that's that's where Gary Numan kind of [TS]

  takes the cake yeah it just feels like [TS]

  oh shit that you know like what the [TS]

  future is scary [TS]

  it's scary because it doesn't feel [TS]

  like there it doesn't feel like there [TS]

  are any blankets there and and I and [TS]

  it's not just the music videos like it's [TS]

  in the music yeah the dissonant like [TS]

  squeaky they were very dissonant squeaky [TS]

  keyboards at that time could sometimes [TS]

  be very very upsetting but like they had [TS]

  a they had a very strong effect on me [TS]

  and that yeah and there and the idea I [TS]

  think that got into my head forever that [TS]

  there should be a note droning somewhere [TS]

  which is actually something thrown back [TS]

  to the Blues you know it like like it's [TS]

  it's Apalachin to have what I mean like [TS]

  there's some I'm trying to think of [TS]

  bands you take a song like I want to say [TS]

  masquerade [TS]

  but the riffs would be very dissonant [TS]

  and yet incredibly catchy a lot of the [TS]

  time or something like in like with Gary [TS]

  knew me take some like cars or even [TS]

  earlier you take down in the park you [TS]

  take a two-way army song song and like [TS]

  there's the two-way arm it was menacing [TS]

  like they do you talk about the future [TS]

  without blankets title that's that stuff [TS]

  just feels like oh my god does this post [TS]

  Kraftwerk future we're gonna live in [TS]

  where everything's just gonna be metal [TS]

  walls it's just that's such a feeling to [TS]

  it of like this is this is not something [TS]

  we've experienced before [TS]

  yeah I'm gonna be alone and no one's [TS]

  ever gonna smile and if you and if you [TS]

  say you know if we say the wrong words [TS]

  like everyone's head is gonna turn yeah [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  sure like music and you're gonna you're [TS]

  gonna have a lot of mascara on I don't [TS]

  think you can ever run out of mascara it [TS]

  was not cool at all to like Adam well [TS]

  see I always thought I still call him [TS]

  out him in the ants too like Adam the [TS]

  ants when I like that in the ants was [TS]

  extremely not cool in Central Florida [TS]

  well even up into then in some ways it [TS]

  was even more embarrassing when Friend [TS]

  or Foe got popular because I was into [TS]

  Kingsley well frontier and Prince [TS]

  Charming we're like whoa Stanton deliver [TS]

  was my favorite song for probably five [TS]

  years a great tune it's a good song and [TS]

  they had two drummers and they dressed [TS]

  like pirates and like what are they [TS]

  doing with all that makeup and then [TS]

  Friend or Foe [TS]

  I mean it really was kind of like Tiger [TS]

  Beat material in some ways was still [TS]

  very good song with a great band [TS]

  but like then was even more embarrassing [TS]

  because like oh yeah I knew you liked [TS]

  this obscure English band but now I [TS]

  really understand what this band is and [TS]

  you like this is not very Molly Hatchet [TS]

  I feel like the I feel like it's another [TS]

  example of like Adam Ant had so much [TS]

  attitude toward the camera mm-hmm like [TS]

  he was very he was very beautiful [TS]

  telegenic yeah just right in your face [TS]

  with it and I I could never give I could [TS]

  I could never hate that like even even [TS]

  in the darkest time of like if it's not [TS]

  metal it's not music his like pure [TS]

  swagger and that was what I that was why [TS]

  I didn't like simply red why I didn't [TS]

  like Tears for Fears was that they there [TS]

  wasn't swagger it looked like they were [TS]

  you know they were trying to seem deep [TS]

  and I didn't respond to that as much as [TS]

  I did like Here I am like and why I [TS]

  could never ever ever hate on George [TS]

  Michael even at the even I'm just a [TS]

  little bit [TS]

  even when wham was ludicrous raps the [TS]

  lamb rap song you think that was a [TS]

  little silly at the time I mean it's not [TS]

  like I was listening to those records [TS]

  but I didn't I didn't look at George [TS]

  Michael and have contempt for him he [TS]

  wasn't you weren't offended I wasn't no [TS]

  well no I I felt like yeah there it is [TS]

  like he's he's owning he's owning that [TS]

  space and that was and that was a I [TS]

  think there was a lot I mean I don't [TS]

  like Frank Zappa at all but I love Frank [TS]

  Zappa oh yeah [TS]

  you know the idea of Frank Zappa is very [TS]

  strong the idea of Frank Zappa the smell [TS]

  of Frank Zappa is something I don't want [TS]

  to consider right I don't because I my [TS]

  sense is that that Frank had a lot of [TS]

  sex mmm [TS]

  and that it was and and potentially even [TS]

  largely monogamous but he was not [TS]

  somebody who was gonna go like shower [TS]

  before oh I see what you're saying I [TS]

  think about that sometimes I think about [TS]

  smells [TS]

  yeah yeah I'm sensitive to smells you [TS]

  know I've got a rash no because I spent [TS]

  some time in hot tubs recently oh no no [TS]

  no no no no no that's that's human soup [TS]

  and I don't I don't be a perfect [TS]

  breeding ground for that kind of thing I [TS]

  like a hot bath mm-hmm I like a even a [TS]

  swimming pool but a hot tub I always [TS]

  come out of there with hives is it on [TS]

  your bottom parts it's just in the parts [TS]

  that would touch it touch the water of [TS]

  attack oh okay [TS]

  and it's just it's uncomfortable and it [TS]

  makes me feel like it's one of the [TS]

  things that separates me from the 1970s [TS]

  I feel like water beds I was into I [TS]

  would be into them again if they were if [TS]

  it see if it seemed reasonable to have [TS]

  one uh-huh but a hot tub I don't know [TS]

  whether it's the whether it's the other [TS]

  people or the chemicals they put in them [TS]

  to keep it's the other people from [TS]

  creating like Polliwogs [TS]

  John I think even in the best of [TS]

  conditions it's a lot of work keeping [TS]

  one of those things clean I mean if [TS]

  you're even if you're really riding that [TS]

  hard even if you like maybe have some [TS]

  you've hired some help before it I think [TS]

  that's gonna be a lot of work yeah yeah [TS]

  but so I was in a hot tub in one place [TS]

  and then I went to another place and [TS]

  they had hot tubs there too I was like [TS]

  all right mr. hot tub I guess and after [TS]

  the first hot tub experience I was like [TS]

  I feel a little itchy [TS]

  yeah where a rash is really it's like [TS]

  it's like it's just a droning [TS]

  existential home you really cannot [TS]

  forget the physicality of your body when [TS]

  you got a rash there's other kinds of [TS]

  things where you can like kind of put it [TS]

  off for a minute but a rice just reminds [TS]

  you that you're alive and not in a good [TS]

  way [TS]

  I'm I'm people I think are often [TS]

  surprised at how vulnerable I am to [TS]

  things you're sensitive you're sensitive [TS]

  soap and bad smells and that that hot [TS]

  tubs but I'm very sensitive to two [TS]

  things and I think right now I'm reading [TS]

  a book about sleep [TS]

  and the book about sleep is telling me [TS]

  that if you if you're not getting good [TS]

  sleep you might as well die of cancer [TS]

  right now yeah and so I'm so last night [TS]

  I actually read the book about sleep [TS]

  until it put me to sleep and then I lay [TS]

  there and I woke up a little bit later [TS]

  and and my body was like you're not [TS]

  ready for sleep and I I really thought [TS]

  about this book like yes I am ready for [TS]

  sleep potty or would you like instead to [TS]

  just die at 56 of a thousand maladies [TS]

  and my body said hmm all right I'll I'll [TS]

  take this on under advisement [TS]

  and I did go back to sleep and I did [TS]

  sleep soundly and so I'm thinking about [TS]

  this book and I'm thinking about like [TS]

  hmm I have a rash I also have been sick [TS]

  a lot lately maybe it's time to read a [TS]

  book about sleep Wow and so that's where [TS]

  I am I'm at I am at the point in my life [TS]

  where I would voluntarily read a book [TS]

  about sleep and and I'm reading the [TS]

  intro and the the writer is like well I [TS]

  started as a psychiatry professor at [TS]

  Harvard and then I moved to Berkeley [TS]

  where I'm a you know a psychokinetic [TS]

  researcher and the chairman of the [TS]

  department and I'm picturing you know [TS]

  this sleep researcher and I turned to [TS]

  the back of the book jacket and and this [TS]

  person looks like the male lead of dirty [TS]

  dancing Patrick Swayze Patrick Swayze [TS]

  yeah and I'm like oh no and I flipped [TS]

  back to the intro again and it said for [TS]

  over 20 years I've been working and I [TS]

  was like 20 years ago was 1998 [TS]

  like this oh he still doesn't have a [TS]

  dict I mean this person is 39 or [TS]

  something you know you know like you [TS]

  seen his leathery no I'm saying if you [TS]

  got in your career started in 1998 [TS]

  you are I mean he's like got bleached [TS]

  hair and so it was then it was really [TS]

  hard not to put the book down because I [TS]

  did not want to be lectured about sleep [TS]

  by someone who looked like Patrick [TS]

  Swayze but I was like stay in the game [TS]

  stay in the game yeah maybe he has some [TS]

  insights maybe you can learn something [TS]

  from a young person and well so I made [TS]

  it through the first couple of chapters [TS]

  there's a Supreme Court justice he's [TS]

  younger than me no it's very upsetting [TS]

  the new yeah of course it's yeah his [TS]

  name whoever the guy is that's that they [TS]

  jammed in there yeah upsetting but I got [TS]

  a tip for you I can't promise is gonna [TS]

  help but this is someone out of the [TS]

  cognitive-behavioral tradition but [TS]

  something I've been doing that has been [TS]

  helping with the sleep and you've heard [TS]

  me I don't know if you've ever heard me [TS]

  mention this before what are my [TS]

  catchphrases in life one of my guiding [TS]

  principles is to remind myself that I've [TS]

  decided not to let it bother me what [TS]

  something starts to bother me I say to [TS]

  myself you know what I've decided not to [TS]

  let it bother me then every part of that [TS]

  is important so I started trying to [TS]

  adopt that with sleep when I wake up and [TS]

  I suddenly I start feeling all the [TS]

  anxiety I say hmm maybe I'm not a bad [TS]

  person because I'm awake maybe I will [TS]

  actually get up for a few minutes what [TS]

  if I gave myself one hour to be awake [TS]

  and said after an hour I'll go back to [TS]

  sleep but I'm not gonna feel bad about [TS]

  it I have decided not to let it bother [TS]

  I've decided not to let it bother me hmm [TS]

  I have decided not to let it bother me [TS]

  and then and then all of a sudden you're [TS]

  not a bad person anymore now you're just [TS]

  somebody who's awake for a little while [TS]

  and then you're somebody who can go back [TS]

  to sleep because you know because you [TS]

  know what kills you is the feeling bad [TS]

  about it it's the being bothered that [TS]

  will keep you awake [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  okay well but but I mean I know that I'm [TS]

  a bad person [TS]

  well I don't convinced of that or [TS]

  disabused I was sir [TS]

  but what yeah I just this guy you know [TS]

  he he made me feel okay because he was [TS]

  like he gave me some of what I was [TS]

  looking for which it is if you stay up [TS]

  late at night that's because that's what [TS]

  you're supposed to do and your body is [TS]

  on a cycle and you can't do [TS]

  just a normal healthy American boy I'm [TS]

  an owl I'm an owl not an early bird I'm [TS]

  an owl and and so I was like yeah damn [TS]

  right and he said but if you don't get [TS]

  eight hours of sleep at night you're [TS]

  gonna die [TS]

  this is your alright the bad news is [TS]

  it's killing you face compliment [TS]

  sandwich world's fucked up nobody you [TS]

  know the world is not made for people [TS]

  that want to sleep until 10:00 a.m. [TS]

  let alone noon so it's too bad for you [TS]

  if you don't get eight hours of sleep a [TS]

  night your brain is gonna turn into [TS]

  spaghetti noodles and be too tired to [TS]

  realize it I'm gonna be too tired to go [TS]

  to war teach on that shoot tired [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  I'm Merlin how's going good long time [TS]

  Nessie Esmond that long we just talked [TS]

  last week right that's right yeah yes [TS]

  there's no Vale to tear away no we've [TS]

  been talking consistently yes we talked [TS]

  about politics last week oh yeah as you [TS]

  remember when we talked last week yeah [TS]

  yeah we talked about politics that was a [TS]

  that was a real hit show it's barnburner [TS]

  yeah it was got a lot of got a lot of [TS]

  hearts and faith for that one yeah [TS]

  collective hearts collected faves mmm [TS]

  collecting them in my in my little [TS]

  Tupperware in my it's not a little [TS]

  Tupperware it's a big big big one of [TS]

  those big Tupper what's the name of a [TS]

  soundcloud rapper locally clever where a [TS]

  little Tupperware yeah yeah I got a I [TS]

  got a big bucket of those hit hearts and [TS]

  babes I've been collecting since 2011 [TS]

  mm-hmm hearts and minds hearts and faves [TS]

  well it's nice to talk to you you used [TS]

  to get a lot of faves [TS]

  jimena yeah got gold star faves yeah I [TS]

  don't use the internet as much as I used [TS]

  to [TS]

  you said a mouthful mm-hmm man you know [TS]

  I use it I use it differently the pipes [TS]

  and the wires you know I've rerouted [TS]

  them a little bit a little bit of a home [TS]

  improvement on my internet you know it [TS]

  was my uncle's law partner that said the [TS]

  internet was a series of tubes right [TS]

  that's uncle Ted uncle pad yeah it's [TS]

  like no no no you don't put on the back [TS]

  of a truck that's what he said right [TS]

  that's right he added some nuance to it [TS]

  I talked about him a lot in the last [TS]

  week or so cuz I visited my uncle who is [TS]

  91 now and he's trying to write his [TS]

  autobiography and he's got he's written [TS]

  quite a bit of it but he was telling a [TS]

  lot of stories about the good old days [TS]

  while we were sitting around sitting [TS]

  around the couch and heard a lot of [TS]

  great Ted Stevens stories any you can [TS]

  share because because Ted Stevens in the [TS]

  popular imagination I think if you know [TS]

  the name Ted Stevens you may know that [TS]

  he is the the tubes a series of tubes [TS]

  back of a truck guy [TS]

  you may know wasn't he famous for the [TS]

  quote-unquote Bridge to Nowhere [TS]

  wasn't that his boondoggle no that was a [TS]

  different Alaskan see I already don't [TS]

  know who I'm talking about yeah that was [TS]

  Wally Hickel Wally Hickel the former [TS]

  governor and Nixon Secretary of the [TS]

  Interior Ted was a fan of political pork [TS]

  was he not well Ted Oh Merlin yuck that [TS]

  let me get you started please permit me [TS]

  you said it political pork Ted was the [TS]

  chairman of the Armed Forces [TS]

  Appropriations Committee they get to [TS]

  decide where what bad heart defense [TS]

  money goes no that's where all the [TS]

  defense money all the defense may all [TS]

  the great defense like all the great [TS]

  defense money the Appropriations [TS]

  Committee is very powerful and Ted was [TS]

  the leader of it and so and you guys are [TS]

  right there by by the Soviet Union you [TS]

  can about your window that's right and [TS]

  you know my dad and my uncle are [TS]

  peaceniks or at least anti-war they're [TS]

  doves that's what they would have been [TS]

  calling doves prefer peace they prefer [TS]

  peace and they would say you know Ted [TS]

  you gotta what are you doing here man [TS]

  with these guns and Ted would say you [TS]

  know 48 out of 50 states the military is [TS]

  their number one employer that should [TS]

  get it's a logical fallacy that's a [TS]

  really good logical fallacy it's like my [TS]

  dad used to do when I when I started to [TS]

  try and take his car away because it was [TS]

  too old to drive and he would say I got [TS]

  a guy got an appointment to get the car [TS]

  fixed people run everything so we should [TS]

  let white people run everything so Ted [TS]

  Ted yeah Ted you know he was appointed [TS]

  to the Senate the first time he never he [TS]

  didn't even he was his like he didn't [TS]

  win election to that office [TS]

  initially okay I'm looking him up here I [TS]

  go and that was that's like kind of [TS]

  extraordinary just in the sense that he [TS]

  he became one of the longest senators [TS]

  serving his president pro-tem for years [TS]

  he was that the time he was the lamb [TS]

  around the internet science site he was [TS]

  the longest serving Republican senator [TS]

  in history at the time he left office [TS]

  now of course that's orrin hatch yeah [TS]

  orrin hatch now has made it made it over [TS]

  here I mean they're gonna have to pry [TS]

  the Senate from his his one good hand [TS]

  lot of layers part of his whole thing [TS]

  was like there's he was off of term [TS]

  limits or didn't like the idea that [TS]

  these guys would get in there and then [TS]

  never leave it was real frustrating to [TS]

  him and that was I think in 1977 is that [TS]

  right was in 1977 when he came in orrin [TS]

  hatch yeah no I have no idea I don't [TS]

  follow the career born read the traits [TS]

  assumed office January 3 1977 Wow yeah [TS]

  yeah and Ted was already there right he [TS]

  was he was there Ted this is what's [TS]

  crazy he went into the Senate right [TS]

  about the time I was born so I mean [TS]

  there was like three months of my entire [TS]

  life that Ted Stevens autumn in the US I [TS]

  want to just reflect the fact that I [TS]

  just totally confused orrin hatch and [TS]

  Bob Dole thank you very much all fixing [TS]

  the Edit damn good 1976 his first run [TS]

  for office elected to the Senate [TS]

  defeating Frank Moss the three-term [TS]

  incumbent among other issues hatch [TS]

  criticized his ha mosses 18-year tenure [TS]

  in the Senate saying what do you call a [TS]

  senator who served in office for 18 [TS]

  years you call him home he ran on the [TS]

  promise of time right he got in there he [TS]

  got on the promise of term limits that [TS]

  was we should do yeah I should have do [TS]

  not don't like me in there in a while [TS]

  mm-hmm it's early it's really early so I [TS]

  took I took you off your game so uncle [TS]

  Ted comes in oh and it was a weird thing [TS]

  because that he came in because a Senate [TS]

  era that our senator at the time a guy [TS]

  named Bob Bartlett [TS]

  who was a Democrat Bob Bartlett died [TS]

  and it was not yet the rule that if if a [TS]

  senator died in office and you were [TS]

  going to appoint a replacement that you [TS]

  require you appointed a replacement from [TS]

  the same party so the new governor was a [TS]

  Republican and he just appointed a [TS]

  Republican Oh No kidding [TS]

  instead of replacing Bob Bartlett with [TS]

  the Democrat Bob Bartlett born in [TS]

  Seattle yeah and you know the one of our [TS]

  competing high schools in Anchorage I [TS]

  went to East High School one of our [TS]

  competing high schools was called [TS]

  Bartlett High School after after Bob [TS]

  Bartlett thought all the histories [TS]

  connected yet salt it's all connected [TS]

  it's all you know Alaska is very small [TS]

  very small political politically Alaska [TS]

  very small he died the year you were [TS]

  born [TS]

  I believe December 11 1968 yeah he had [TS]

  had some heart surgery and that's why [TS]

  Ted Stevens was appointed by the [TS]

  Republican governor by the Republican [TS]

  governor and when you know and [TS]

  immediately immediately immediately [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  appointed yeah that was big year 1968 [TS]

  yeah riots in Paris mm-hmm you know [TS]

  quite a long this is the 50th [TS]

  anniversary of 1968 I know isn't that [TS]

  strange that's one of the years it must [TS]

  have felt like five years it still feels [TS]

  like they're I don't know we've had a [TS]

  we've had a bigger year sentence no it [TS]

  was we've talked about this every [TS]

  goddamn week but like the fractious [TS]

  nough some 1968 and the stuff that [TS]

  happened that I mean 63 obviously with [TS]

  Kennedy being assassinated that was a [TS]

  real shocker for the country it just [TS]

  like well I mean cuz do you think about [TS]

  who was the previous one was not [TS]

  Cleveland McKinley like the last [TS]

  presidential assassination had been like [TS]

  this from another era and you just [TS]

  couldn't even imagine this seemingly [TS]

  healthy young man you know just being [TS]

  being cut down [TS]

  emphasis on seemingly seemingly he had a [TS]

  lot pills stashed a lot of pills and [TS]

  and various things I but you know but [TS]

  the 68 is so much happen even if you [TS]

  just take the assassinations and there's [TS]

  so much more than the assassinations but [TS]

  like you say internationally the stuff [TS]

  was stuff going on internationally was [TS]

  so bananas yeah I just I feel like that [TS]

  was back when years would be like a year [TS]

  right like Time magazine would do like a [TS]

  like the Year in Review and it really [TS]

  felt like wow we really put one away [TS]

  this year we were put one in the history [TS]

  books they're gonna they're gonna [TS]

  remember 1982 you know that was that was [TS]

  a heck of a year 1997 is going to make [TS]

  1982 mmm look like 1968 Hot Wheels Hot [TS]

  Wheels Hot Wheels are introduced January [TS]

  4th 1968 Hot Wheels Sesame Street Sesame [TS]

  Street don't me take you out for game [TS]

  I'm just reading the Internet but keep [TS]

  this is my game I was realizing I would [TS]

  just a second ago realized it's very [TS]

  early so early [TS]

  I've been up I've been up in Hale and [TS]

  Hardy since like 6:30 and I by 10:00 [TS]

  a.m. I'm just so tired [TS]

  I got like it's like my second morning I [TS]

  have introduced my daughter to the [TS]

  concept of second breakfast I'm so sorry [TS]

  I did Oh [TS]

  breakfast is now a thing well because I [TS]

  started reading her The Hobbit [TS]

  okay I'll terrific well except she is [TS]

  really not into it she's like ah boring [TS]

  yeah but then we got to very early on [TS]

  you know Bilbo starts having a second [TS]

  breakfast and she hurt yours really [TS]

  perked up a second referenced fixing [TS]

  she's gonna want smoke a pipe second [TS]

  breakfast so I do have to hear about it [TS]

  now oh I was I was told by her that I [TS]

  can no longer keys her and I said that [TS]

  I've had I've had that conversation yeah [TS]

  and I was like take something out of [TS]

  Canon if you said something cute and a [TS]

  funny voice you can't you can't I can't [TS]

  sweep it's too Boeing like that's gonna [TS]

  be on you forever kid proficient said [TS]

  that when you were two if you didn't [TS]

  want to be cute yeah that's right I [TS]

  can't sweep it's two boys and and and I [TS]

  said well what what is the number one [TS]

  way that I tease you that you want me to [TS]

  stop and she said [TS]

  stop saying bastok of potatoes this [TS]

  episode of Rodrick on the line is [TS]

  brought to you by Squarespace you can [TS]

  learn more about Squarespace right now [TS]

  by going to Squarespace calm and get [TS]

  yourself a free trial there and when [TS]

  you're ready to launch please use the [TS]

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  get 10% off your first purchase of a [TS]

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  Squarespace well let's start as they say [TS]

  with step 0 which is you can have a [TS]

  podcast there the show you're listening [TS]

  to right now Roderick on the line is [TS]

  done entirely using Squarespace they [TS]

  have the files there they got the show [TS]

  notes they got the images it's all there [TS]

  and John and I just love this site but [TS]

  you can do whatever you need to with it [TS]

  you can create a beautiful website for [TS]

  whatever your next big idea is you can [TS]

  make your new idea into a cool website [TS]

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  Squarespace is not the perfect thing for [TS]

  you please keep it in mind for other [TS]

  people in your life you do not need to [TS]

  be in the webmaster business you can [TS]

  point them to Squarespace get them set [TS]

  up in just a really a very small handful [TS]

  of minutes and they're good to go [TS]

  taking care of their own thing big fans [TS]

  of Squarespace once again you go to [TS] and you can get your [TS]

  free trial when you're ready to go you [TS]

  just use the very special offer code [TS]

  supertrain that's gonna get you 10% off [TS]

  your first purchase our thanks to [TS]

  Squarespace for supporting Roderick on [TS]

  the line and all the great shows so I [TS]

  was like alright you know what I'll stop [TS]

  saying bass the company knows if you if [TS]

  this is really [TS]

  bothering you this teasing what I say [TS]

  because it's a game right she says you [TS]

  know what are we doing this afternoon [TS]

  I'm like well I don't know we could go [TS]

  to the movies or we could eat a basket [TS]

  potatoes and and she's just covered in [TS]

  shame yeah her guard is down but but she [TS]

  started to she got started to get the [TS]

  game and she would preempt me mm-hmm I'd [TS]

  go well we could go to the dinner or and [TS]

  she'd go get a basket potatoes and then [TS]

  I was busted dad lame yeah well so so I [TS]

  said I'm gonna stop teasing you I'm [TS]

  gonna take that out of the out of the [TS]

  the lexicon we're not you're not ever [TS]

  gonna hear it again and then later on [TS]

  that afternoon I said well what should [TS]

  we do this afternoon and she was like [TS]

  why don't we get a basket of potatoes [TS]

  and I was like hey you you can't tease [TS]

  me it's like it's like her n-word well [TS]

  and so now she really has to she's [TS]

  really chewing on it because she didn't [TS]

  want to be teased but what that meant [TS]

  was she didn't want to be she didn't [TS]

  want to lose she didn't want to be the [TS]

  one that delivered got the basket of [TS]

  potatoes delivered upon her now she's [TS]

  like that that all right guy who dresses [TS]

  up in diapers and hangs out in safe [TS]

  spaces to pony libs he's a grown man he [TS]

  dresses up in he's been known to dress [TS]

  up in diapers with a pacifier and he [TS]

  goes to college campuses and makes fun [TS]

  of safe space this morning he wears a [TS]

  diaper Oh [TS]

  that'll show that same thing right [TS]

  that's too good potatoes same situation [TS]

  it's like she's pulling herself as a [TS]

  cell phone I opened my email this [TS]

  morning because I made the a couple of [TS]

  days ago I was like you know all right [TS]

  I'm gonna go and unsubscribe from all [TS]

  these things and let's see which ones I [TS]

  really successfully unsubscribe from and [TS]

  which ones it's just like the elevator [TS]

  button anything or dropping dropping a [TS]

  bit of oil onto like the overhead [TS]

  projector at a dead show where it just [TS]

  is like blurring and now all of a sudden [TS]

  I get 400 emails because I've identified [TS]

  myself as a living person but I got an [TS]

  email from the NRA [TS]

  listen which I had never had one [TS]

  directly from them are you are you [TS]

  remember no most of my family was but [TS]

  are not well my late father was a he [TS]

  basically his occupation his career was [TS]

  I mean he'd been an Eagle Scout he was [TS]

  he's from that age we're like normal [TS]

  guys had guns and he talked gun safety [TS]

  classes and he was in the NRA and he was [TS]

  in Ducks Unlimited he's like hey we [TS]

  can't kill all the Ducks so we won't get [TS]

  to shoot ducks anymore like an early [TS]

  kind of like right-wing conservative [TS]

  movement like a conservation movement [TS]

  like he was oh he was like a good he was [TS]

  a good gun guy he taught like I say he [TS]

  taught gun safety classes and except for [TS]

  Korea never shot a guy [TS]

  except for Korea he never shot a guy [TS]

  yeah he was he had a bad time in Korea [TS]

  it was not a good police action oh [TS]

  that's too bad [TS]

  yeah hit the PTSD didn't you know didn't [TS]

  call it that then they just thought he [TS]

  was a guy who didn't like fireworks [TS]

  would be a marina or an army he was uh [TS]

  he was very briefly a PFC until he got [TS]

  busted to basic private because he [TS]

  refused to paint a barracks right before [TS]

  they he knew they were bugging out oh [TS]

  yeah there's just two ways and one of [TS]

  them's the army way another way is that [TS]

  you could get less money each week yeah [TS]

  that's a that's a tough one [TS]

  to get to get but busted down he's in he [TS]

  was in frontline battles he had frozen [TS]

  feet and stuff it was a terrible [TS]

  situation no it's awful it was awful it [TS]

  was off so he didn't want to watch mash [TS]

  let's see he I don't know if he why mash [TS]

  is on for a couple years before he died [TS]

  I don't remember that being a show that [TS]

  we watched but everybody man everybody [TS]

  you know Winchester just died Charles [TS]

  Emerson Winchester the third Charles [TS]

  yeah he just he passed a couple three [TS]

  days ago oh no my daughter knows him [TS]

  through his voice work he's been who's [TS]

  been the voice in many things he's a [TS]

  voice in miyazaki movie spirited away he [TS]

  is a voice in the wonderful and [TS]

  underrated lilo and Stitch huh that and [TS]

  he's in a program of terrible not [TS]

  terrible a program my daughter likes [TS]

  called the Regular Show he also has a [TS]

  role in there huh no kidding yeah I'm [TS]

  always amazed by people that recognize [TS]

  other people's voices didn't voiceover [TS]

  work [TS]

  I mean I can pick out Morgan free it's [TS]

  it's a it's a sport in our house is like [TS]

  who can name that person first I fee I [TS]

  took you out the Panay toes [TS]

  oh no I mean I there was never a time [TS]

  where I didn't feel like the National [TS]

  Rifle Association was not an [TS]

  organization that did not represent me [TS]

  wait I guess a lot of knots in that time [TS]

  that's right that there's there was [TS]

  never be they used to be I mean I think [TS]

  the where we stand today is it's fairly [TS]

  well known that even though they portray [TS]

  themselves as an organization that is [TS]

  for people who believe in the Second [TS]

  Amendment right to keep and bear arms [TS]

  they are I think that was pretend to be [TS]

  doing that it is a they are a [TS]

  industry-funded lobbying group whose [TS]

  primary goal is to sell more guns and [TS]

  secondary goal is to not allow anything [TS]

  to happen that would prevent selling [TS]

  more guns that's not to be cynical but I [TS]

  think that's pretty much what they are [TS]

  at this point this this was a you know [TS]

  the the transformation of the NRA from a [TS]

  sportsman's organization to whatever it [TS]

  is now a lot everything was a lobbying [TS]

  group well but you know a sportsman's [TS]

  lobbying group to whatever it is now I [TS]

  mean industry centric yeah well or no [TS]

  it's not even it I don't think it's that [TS]

  it's a propaganda organization now it [TS]

  doesn't have anything to I mean but that [TS]

  transformations been happening [TS]

  throughout the course of my life like my [TS]

  and father was even by 1950s [TS]

  standards a gun nut like a nut mm-hmm [TS]

  I've probably described before that in [TS]

  the house the house my mom grew up in [TS]

  she said that there were just rifles [TS]

  leaning you know in all the corners of [TS]

  all the rooms like in the living room [TS]

  all four corners just had like rifles [TS]

  leaning in them and so when she was home [TS]

  alone at night and it's a farm house [TS]

  it's out you know a mile from the [TS]

  nearest neighbor [TS]

  she'd be home alone studying at night [TS]

  and I guess they didn't have curtains [TS]

  because they couldn't I don't know why [TS]

  because back then why would you have [TS]

  curtains I'm not sure I don't think they [TS]

  were too poor for curtains although they [TS]

  right hide nothing curtains right on the [TS]

  border of being too poor for curtains [TS]

  what we could use that fabric as napkins [TS]

  but like guns in the corner and so she [TS]

  would move her she would move her little [TS]

  study chair to the center of the room [TS]

  because she didn't want she was [TS]

  obviously like she's you know young girl [TS]

  she was afraid that someone was looking [TS]

  at her in the in the dark [TS]

  somebody was out in the dark looking in [TS]

  but she also felt like there are guns in [TS]

  all the corners like I'm fine [TS]

  ultimately like I can get to a gun [TS]

  within seconds but the strange [TS]

  environment to grow up in to me yeah and [TS]

  it's not natural to her I mean she's [TS]

  still she's still deadly people weapons [TS]

  and I think one cognitive disconnect [TS]

  between in our country right now is that [TS]

  there are people who think of guns [TS]

  primarily as people killing machines and [TS]

  other people who think of it no [TS]

  differently than they would think of a [TS]

  screwdriver or a hammer it's something [TS]

  that's part of a certain rural lifestyle [TS]

  that includes hunting and the need for [TS]

  protection because there's no one to [TS]

  help you there well I mean hunting sure [TS]

  but there are a lot of people in America [TS]

  that can that look at a rifle I think as [TS]

  a tennis racket it's something that you [TS]

  go and you get to go to the range or you [TS]

  go somewhere and and then planket cans [TS]

  or shoot at targets I went to a target [TS]

  shooting match the other day a friend of [TS]

  mine from Portland is a is a competitive [TS]

  shooter and his team was playing the [TS]

  local Seattle team and he and his he and [TS]

  his pal a fellow shooter came up and I [TS]

  went to the range with them and [TS]

  they competed against the locals and you [TS]

  know the the Portland team maybe [TS]

  predictably were all in their 40s [TS]

  quickly reduce the pointless infighting [TS]

  no like they all had kind of long hair [TS]

  and beards and the Seattle team were all [TS]

  7b Oh interesting and had suspenders and [TS]

  there's still regionality in anything I [TS]

  love that they had suspenders on their [TS]

  jeans and you know like the Seattle team [TS]

  was definitely like old gun people and [TS]

  the Portland team were like we're the [TS]

  young you know these are very technical [TS]

  instruments these pistols and you know [TS]

  that's a whole I mean shit they're still [TS]

  shooting in the Olympics get the [TS]

  biathlon that's a great that's a crazy [TS]

  event did you watch the women's biathlon [TS]

  no no no but I just remember well first [TS]

  when I first became aware of it as like [TS]

  a teen I was like one get this straight [TS]

  like you ski really hard you get out of [TS]

  breath they always said that's the hard [TS]

  part is you're kind of out of breath and [TS]

  they need to pull out a rifle and shoot [TS]

  very accurately at a distance i watch [TS]

  the women's biathlon and it was [TS]

  thrilling oh cool some thrilling [TS]

  thrilling Olympic drama but you have [TS]

  that tennis racquet thing the idea of it [TS]

  just being a thing that you go like it's [TS]

  just a sport transport to go try and put [TS]

  a little little piece of metal into the [TS]

  center of a piece of paper that's a long [TS]

  way away like but my my grandfather was [TS]

  somebody that according to my mom he put [TS]

  all of his spare money in guns curtains [TS]

  I mean that's right what are you gonna [TS]

  do send your daughter to college man so [TS]

  by the time he died his gun collection [TS]

  was worth a small fortune because he had [TS]

  all these plans Wow yeah like he had [TS]

  bought all these beautiful weapons and [TS]

  and he had [TS]

  score upon score of them and I guess my [TS]

  mother's brother took who also was Gunny [TS]

  he wasn't like super gun nut but he was [TS]

  gonna sh [TS]

  at least gonna jacent but he he took it [TS]

  all and sold it sold it all as a big you [TS]

  know as a as a major component of his [TS]

  quote unquote estate which I think was [TS]

  largely made of guns ended up being a [TS]

  shelter former shelter and I was I'm [TS]

  actually even now many many years later [TS]

  decades later I feel a little bit like [TS]

  the little tiny piece of me is missing [TS]

  in that I do not have a single one of my [TS]

  grandfather's my crazy grandfather's oh [TS]

  I can totally understand that yeah some [TS]

  just like some bird rifle or something [TS]

  you know what is it there's a [TS]

  long-running beef in my near family [TS]

  where basically at some point after my [TS]

  dad died an acquaintance of our family [TS]

  was like basically taking care of my [TS]

  dad's collection of rifles and pistols [TS]

  and my mom had asked for it back never [TS]

  got it back into this day she's still [TS]

  steamed about it yeah that's how it was [TS]

  at the time like that's very assist that [TS]

  would be like keeping his watch in his [TS]

  wallet or something keeping his watch in [TS]

  his wallet exactly my brother David got [TS]

  my dad's Navy flight jacket a long time [TS]

  before I came along right he grabbed [TS]

  that out of the closet cuz that's a [TS]

  weird thing in 1968 let's let's put [TS]

  let's locate this story in 1968 when my [TS]

  brother David would have been 18 my dad [TS]

  is not my dad already is looking at his [TS]

  Navy flight jacket as some moth-eaten [TS]

  old thing that's hanging around the back [TS]

  of his closet talk about 23 years there [TS]

  yeah and when his teenage kids like hey [TS]

  let me wear you let me wear your jacket [TS]

  in my dad's like sure whatever you know [TS]

  get it out of here not even thinking [TS]

  that he would ever have another son who [TS]

  would 20 years later who has kids that [TS]

  later [TS]

  yes exactly who would ever want that [TS]

  jacket later you know what more mm-hmm [TS]

  wanted more take better care of it so my [TS]

  brother you know my brother took it and [TS]

  I'm sure like put out his joints on it [TS]

  for however long and then it just was [TS]

  gone [TS]

  just went into the went into the shit [TS]

  pile like all the other jackets that [TS]

  that hippies didn't appreciate but I did [TS]

  get my dad's watch in his wallet [TS]

  I feel a little bit bad about it because [TS]

  I was over at his old folks home one day [TS]

  I was in the bathroom looking for a [TS]

  q-tip and I opened up some drawer and [TS]

  his watch was in there never tell you [TS]

  this [TS]

  no and I said dad what's your watch [TS]

  doing in this in the bathroom and he [TS]

  said oh I you know put it in there so [TS]

  the cleaning lady won't find it and I [TS]

  said the cleaning Li is first of all [TS]

  that's not the problem but second of all [TS]

  the bathroom isn't like the place and I [TS]

  said I'll tell you what I'll I'll take [TS]

  it and keep it for you I'll protect it [TS]

  for you and he said you're stealing my [TS]

  watch can't go better than a cleaning [TS]

  lady and I said I'm not stealing your [TS]

  watch like you're not wearing it anymore [TS]

  what do you what do you thinks gonna [TS]

  happen to this watch this watch this [TS]

  this is a this is the topic of watch [TS]

  advertising you hand your watch down [TS]

  that's what happens [TS]

  old men hand their watches down to their [TS]

  young sons he was like bullshit [TS]

  Oh cuz the struggle the struggle at that [TS]

  point is very much about maintaining [TS]

  agency and relevance and importance and [TS]

  like taken away the greatest generations [TS]

  watch is wasting leo you don't need to [TS]

  know what time it is anymore well right [TS]

  but what I was afraid of and it's a [TS]

  natural that he was gonna hide it by [TS]

  tucking it in the couch right you know [TS]

  tucking it in his rent [TS]

  did couch and the biggest mistake I feel [TS]

  like I made we were cleaning out his [TS]

  house and he had some gateway computer [TS]

  that he used to Peck out emails to me on [TS]

  you know where it was just like he would [TS]

  after a while just stopped using [TS]

  punctuation I mean it was you know he [TS]

  was just like hey what are you doing you [TS]

  know email and when I when I was [TS]

  cleaning out his place I was just like [TS]

  you know he had mostly particleboard [TS]

  furniture by then and and I just put [TS]

  that gateway computer in a box and took [TS]

  it to the thrift store and it never [TS]

  occurred to me and honestly the chances [TS]

  of this are about 6% but there's a six [TS]

  percent chance that he had been sitting [TS]

  at that computer pecking out some [TS]

  autobiography right and the thing is I [TS]

  know that it's six percent rather even [TS]

  than 16 percent because he never did [TS]

  anything like that in his whole life [TS]

  he never sat down see how he would think [TS]

  about using the tool even how to present [TS]

  well I'm 90% sure that he didn't think [TS]

  of it that way but but he you know he [TS]

  was a lawyer he was no stranger to [TS]

  filling up legal pads but he never once [TS]

  that I ever saw and I have every legal [TS]

  pad he ever touched because I'm a [TS]

  because I didn't I threw away his [TS]

  computer but I didn't throw away all [TS]

  these legal pads but he never was like [TS]

  you know I was thinking or you know he [TS]

  never wrote a single page of like [TS]

  reflections on the way life used to be [TS]

  huh like he never done so so I don't [TS]

  think that his computer was full of his [TS]

  autobiographical notes but I've had 6 [TS]

  percent chance that it wasn't eats at [TS]

  you just a little I mean there's so many [TS]

  things [TS]

  eating at me I feel like I'm in a I'm in [TS]

  the Amazon and I'm I'm being pecked at [TS]

  from all sides although apparently [TS]

  that's not how piranhas work as a team [TS]

  right well but if you stepped in to the [TS]

  you could walk across the Amazon and the [TS]

  piranhas would not skeletonize me it's [TS]

  so good to know yeah I think that's I [TS]

  think I learned that on one of those [TS]

  unless the word John I could not get to [TS]

  use that right now you don't have a real [TS]

  piranha problem there in the sunset [TS]

  though see we're back to work back to [TS]

  gorilla suits in quicksand [TS]

  like piranhas another one of those [TS]

  things that we were raised to believe [TS]

  was something that was like a genuine [TS]

  issue of concern oh sure quick I mean [TS]

  like you can't tell these millenniums [TS]

  but like there was a time when we can [TS]

  all be pretty sure that somebody you [TS]

  knew would die in quicksand it was [TS]

  everywhere absolute gorilla suits every [TS]

  where so many gorilla suits and they [TS]

  just don't hear about in piranhas just [TS]

  don't come up anymore you don't hear [TS]

  about them the way you did it's [TS]

  absolutely true there was one killer bee [TS]

  killer bee there F well Africanized bees [TS]

  hmm one one week in 1968 March 31st [TS]

  Lyndon Johnson announces he will not [TS]

  seek re-election now you hear that today [TS]

  and you go oh no big deal it was a huge [TS]

  deal it was a huge shocking deal when he [TS]

  said he would not seek it he would not [TS]

  accept you think about another president [TS]

  who said no not for me [TS]

  April 2nd April 2nd 2001 comes out April [TS]

  3rd Planet of the Apes comes out April [TS]

  4th Martin Luther King is assassinated [TS]

  also April 4th Apollo 6 is launched [TS]

  April 6th a shootout between Black [TS]

  Panthers and Oakland Police result in [TS]

  several arrests and deaths including [TS]

  sixteen-year-old Panther Bobby Hutton [TS]

  that was one week yes indeedy-do uh-huh [TS]

  and that's what that was all immediately [TS]

  before I was born [TS]

  now you were born by then yeah I was [TS]

  getting born you were alive and this is [TS]

  you know this is what you would think [TS]

  that there would be a generation divider [TS]

  between if you were born before Martin [TS]

  Luther King was killed or after thanks [TS]

  SME street might be a bigger deal Sesame [TS]

  Street it feels like but but don't you [TS]

  feel like there's a generation gap that [TS]

  starts with people where do you [TS]

  think you start to feel like people are [TS]

  younger than you what what age when they [TS]

  were born I have a totally crazy one but [TS]

  it's unavoidable this is really dumb and [TS]

  so trivial but like a lot of my friends [TS]

  who are just slightly younger than me or [TS]

  feel just slightly younger than me I had [TS]

  a couple things for better for worse [TS]

  like I was born late in 1966 and I [TS]

  started school late so I was one of the [TS]

  older kids in my class but with that [TS]

  said friends of mine who just feel just [TS]

  slightly younger than me a real ended [TS]

  like shitty 80s robot cartoons where I [TS]

  was already on to like you know Doctor [TS]

  Who or whatever right there's all this [TS]

  affection for like and then just [TS]

  slightly younger than that you already [TS]

  get into Pokemon I'm like Pokemon like I [TS]

  was fucking like 25 when that came out [TS]

  you know so how so where is that line I [TS]

  mean do you think of me as younger than [TS]

  you I used to but now I do not let's [TS]

  toss out a few in the indie rock days [TS]

  when you and I first met mm-hmm we were [TS]

  already both in our thirties yeah that's [TS]

  true about my relationship with you like [TS]

  well you know did you and Marilyn like [TS]

  always did you or did you use to text [TS]

  each other I was like what no podcast is [TS]

  that we used to talk on the phone and [TS]

  neither of us wanted to talk on the [TS]

  phone but that was the only way you [TS]

  could talk to you on the phone yeah we [TS]

  watched a Kitchen Nightmares the other [TS]

  day where the guy had a flip phone and [TS]

  my daughter was like what is he doing [TS]

  with that phone I was like yeah well [TS]

  that's like when this show came out [TS]

  that's the phone that most people had [TS]

  know yesterday we I was at a restaurant [TS]

  in Canadia and there was a there was a [TS]

  phone like a desk phone but it was even [TS]

  older than I would have ever seen it was [TS]

  like a bakelite phone like a [TS]

  ding-a-ling-a-ling son like a [TS]

  ding-a-ling phone and my daughter picked [TS]

  it up and it was a dial phone a rotary [TS]

  phone and I said do you know how those [TS]

  work and she said yes and she she put [TS]

  her finger in it and she said you put [TS]

  your finger in here and you move it to [TS]

  the number that you want to call so I [TS]

  want to call for instance I want to call [TS]

  the letter C French to move it up to the [TS]

  letter C and then went to dit and she [TS]

  was like [TS]

  tada I said well yeah it's not too far [TS]

  off your clothes [TS]

  yeah we found out we found out mixed in [TS]

  with all of our many stickers books was [TS]

  a copy of a zine that I used to like [TS]

  which is a zine about big star called [TS]

  back of a car and she's like what is [TS]

  this comic that's like it's it's like a [TS]

  magazine but little and it's and it had [TS]

  a flexi disc and still had the flexi [TS]

  disc like staple inside of it and I felt [TS]

  like but when we first met she felt that [TS]

  I was a little bit younger than you [TS]

  because there were musical cues that you [TS]

  that that could differentiate a year and [TS]

  a half in age it's like you know what [TS]

  the same with your kids like you your [TS]

  daughter Shirley has friends has had [TS]

  friends through her life that are just [TS]

  like you know those kind of like maybe [TS]

  you don't see them every week but it's [TS]

  your ongoing oh that was your that was [TS]

  your really good friend when you were a [TS]

  baby and they're like what are you [TS]

  talking about like there's a friend [TS]

  there's might be a friend who's like a [TS]

  year older and she started almost [TS]

  certainly probably at this point has [TS]

  friends who are like a year younger and [TS]

  that year for obvious reasons matters [TS]

  less and less mostly as you get older [TS]

  right and in that case like you know [TS]

  that's like again the mr. show bit like [TS]

  I'm into Star Wars you're into that a [TS]

  Empire Strikes Back bullshit you know [TS]

  it's like these these incredibly small [TS]

  differences become less and less [TS]

  important but like when we met oh shit [TS]

  dog Joe Joe from from the label had a [TS]

  tooth the other day part um what is it [TS]

  the thermals is it more [TS]

  parts-per-million came out it's like oh [TS]

  yeah like Eric knows those guys and it's [TS]

  like it was a big deal like oh this this [TS]

  is this really cool record though [TS]

  doesn't that seem insane well especially [TS]

  since I still think of the thermals has [TS]

  like like youngster kids little guys in [TS]

  the shirts yeah yeah yeah but but like [TS]

  when we met like I at that point was you [TS]

  and I were branched in slightly [TS]

  different directions in terms of like [TS]

  what we knew a lot about or were real [TS]

  into and I was certainly deep in my [TS]

  Sloan phase and a lot of like you know [TS]

  the Canadian rock and stuff at that [TS]

  point and you were very very up-to-date [TS]

  unlike what was happening on the charts [TS]

  and in the vnw [TS]

  and all that kind of stuff but I don't [TS]

  remember talking to ton when we talked [TS]

  about old music it would be like you me [TS]

  and Shawn talking about like very old [TS]

  music listen which I mean like in our [TS]

  lifetime but that was a long time ago [TS]

  but you were really you you you really [TS]

  took us in hand and and like actually [TS]

  literally sat us down like come in here [TS]

  sit down and begin to show us things we [TS]

  hadn't seen famously electronic stuff [TS]

  yeah like here's what here's what the [TS]

  internet forum is in that forum but also [TS]

  like you showed us the office for the [TS]

  first time the British seen or heard of [TS]

  when that was still contemporary you you [TS]

  were the first person who had a DVR that [TS]

  any of us had put the Jeff Bridges that [TS]

  we watch it oh my god and it would and [TS]

  this was before there was like gifts or [TS]

  any kind of internet just keeping the TV [TS]

  like I saved this like 11 seconds [TS]

  there's this one time when I turned the [TS]

  channel and accidentally caught Jeff [TS]

  Bridges being seemingly pretty high on [TS]

  Charlie Rose and it was really really [TS]

  funny and we would watch it over and [TS]

  over I can never find it now I don't [TS]

  know I wouldn't even know where to look [TS]

  for it it was so it was so it felt so [TS]

  contemporary it was it was a technology [TS]

  that none of us possessed like so wait a [TS]

  minute wait a minute explain this again [TS]

  you were you were changing channels you [TS]

  can just go watch any Seinfeld now yeah [TS]

  and it was recording somehow and you [TS]

  were able to go back and and you were [TS]

  like yeah it's recording everything all [TS]

  the time you can watch whatever you want [TS]

  whenever like recording everything all [TS]

  the time how does it do it where does [TS]

  keep the tapes it's turning it over [TS]

  looking around they're elves [TS]

  this work yeah right where are the tubes [TS]

  and that felt so in that case that's [TS]

  funny okay I haven't thought that much [TS]

  about that I do have many fond [TS]

  recollections of your band and me [TS]

  sitting around in our underwear and [TS]

  while my wife went to work and I [TS]

  watching TV well there was a lot of that [TS]

  but also I mean one night when I first [TS]

  when you and I first met and I and this [TS]

  is obviously like a story drenched in [TS]

  moss but you still had a PC running in [TS]

  your office yeah but you had begun to [TS]

  evangelize about Macintosh well justjust [TS]

  clarify Macs have been my computer since [TS]

  1987 and I've owned one since 88 it's [TS]

  just that for that there was a period [TS]

  where I had two computers one of which [TS]

  is a very old like 386 PC that I just [TS]

  used for development and listening to [TS]

  streaming music that was but pretty much [TS]

  all but it was it wasn't like a big [TS]

  board long like a big piece of plywood [TS]

  in my office but it was the first time [TS]

  that somebody it was in that what was [TS]

  this that we're talking about 2003 [TS]

  probably yeah - when you and I first met [TS]

  we were on tour with Ken string it was [TS]

  after the first record him before the [TS]

  second record because the second record [TS]

  was what you know that was that was kind [TS]

  of when we became really I think better [TS]

  friends and like went to the website and [TS]

  everything a 2002 was when when we met [TS]

  for sure we did something to her out [TS]

  with the Stringfellow on his touched [TS]

  tour that's such a good record it is a [TS]

  good record it pains me to say that song [TS]

  uniforms oh my god it's so good but it [TS]

  was an oh my god do you know the day [TS]

  that it came out I'll give you a hint [TS]

  same day a very good jay-z record came [TS]

  out that got a little overlooked for a [TS]

  while holy shit oh it came out on [TS]

  September 11 9/11 2001 Wow that's right [TS]

  I do remember holy shit and that's the [TS]

  reason that we didn't tour it until a [TS]

  little bit later because it was like [TS]

  well I can't really go on tour now [TS]

  partner she says but it was but you had [TS]

  started talking about Macintoshes [TS]

  in a way in a different way where it was [TS]

  no longer because you remember the [TS]

  question was alright yo max were my gun [TS]

  let's be honest yeah but the question up [TS]

  until that point culturally had always [TS]

  been well sure get a McIntosh if you [TS]

  want to not be compatible with anything [TS]

  like if you're it's great if you want to [TS]

  live [TS]

  inside of a small little corral do you [TS]

  want to pay three times as much to do [TS]

  fucking nothing [TS]

  yeah but if you want to be you know if [TS]

  you want to be part of the world if you [TS]

  want to integrate and use email and a [TS]

  computer okay get a real computer and [TS]

  and I think that was right at the [TS]

  turning point where it was like no [TS]

  mackintoshes are real computers and and [TS]

  because I I egg and not agonize because [TS]

  I had a Mac classic in 1988 that you [TS]

  know had Mac Paint and I remember [TS]

  recording my voice into it mm-hmm and [TS]

  being astonished that it played my voice [TS]

  back out of it like whoa computers have [TS]

  really tested out the box Mac's handled [TS]

  you know if you knew how to do it it [TS]

  would handle audio stuff you didn't need [TS]

  to buy a board for it or anything like [TS]

  that yeah it was I mean I did not know [TS]

  how to do it so I I was I have I [TS]

  actually still have a recording I made [TS]

  in 1990 where my girlfriend Kate at the [TS]

  time was sitting on my lap at my [TS]

  computer and we were both sitting there [TS]

  basically being amazed by it and we [TS]

  recorded this clip you know a pretty [TS]

  brief little clip of her it would fill [TS]

  up your entire heart it's like a global [TS]

  computer but she's lat like giggle [TS]

  laughing because I'm tickling her and [TS]

  it's just like and you know and when we [TS]

  broke up [TS]

  I listened to it a hundred thousand [TS]

  times oh you know tears streaming down [TS]

  my face thinking back all those short [TS]

  weeks ago to when life was so easy and [TS]

  everything made sense and I change they [TS]

  change so quickly how they really do [TS]

  especially you know okay [TS]

  the reason I have that is that at some [TS]

  time in the 2000s or early 2000s [TS]

  probably about this same time that we're [TS]

  talking about 2002 the stranger here the [TS]

  Seattle newspaper still was running [TS]

  somewhere in the office a computer that [TS]

  old that could use those hard hard [TS]

  floppy disk [TS]

  and Shawn Nelson said hey do you have [TS]

  anything stuck on an old computer [TS]

  because if you do this would be the time [TS]

  to transfer it into a new format because [TS]

  we're gonna unplug this old thing and [TS]

  that will probably be the last time any [TS]

  one of these things is hooked to [TS]

  anything else and I said I do have some [TS]

  stuff and I went and got this big box of [TS]

  those little discs and sat at the [TS]

  stranger and transferred all that stuff [TS]

  into you know made that made the [TS]

  transition into whatever the new format [TS]

  was at the time and the computer was [TS]

  like do you want us to reformat this and [TS]

  I was like yes and so I still have all [TS]

  that stuff from from 1994 because [TS]

  because of that that small little [TS]

  gesture making the transition but you [TS]

  you were the one I think that said to me [TS]

  don't be afraid to buy Apple products [TS]

  you're not gonna be on the wrong side of [TS]

  history uh-huh and I and I you know I I [TS]

  was like wow they're really expensive [TS]

  and I mean they're super pretty but like [TS]

  if you want to hook it to something I [TS]

  think I could be you say as you say [TS]

  there's this is all drenched in moss but [TS]

  my running deal for a long time was that [TS]

  I I cannot unless you're really ready [TS]

  for the journey I cannot recommend [TS]

  buying Mac stuff but what I would offer [TS]

  all along which I did for too much too [TS]

  long for too many people was I will be [TS]

  your Sherpa and your rabbi to the extent [TS]

  possible when when it's weird or when [TS]

  you don't understand something I'll help [TS]

  you set it up and that kind of stuff [TS]

  so 2002-2003 would be right around the [TS]

  period when I was very first feeling [TS]

  more confident in saying I didn't have [TS]

  to put as many asterisks on the first [TS]

  part where I was like this is you know [TS]

  this is getting better this is not as [TS]

  weird there's stuff out there forgiving [TS]

  you know knowing the context and what [TS]

  somebody needs to do I can feel more [TS]

  confident about saying you're not gonna [TS]

  feel like like an idiot for having [TS]

  bought this plus I will help you with it [TS]

  you know as much as I can [TS]

  yeah and you did you were very helpful [TS]

  but and I was I was afraid the first [TS]

  time that money it's a lot of [TS]

  money to invest in you feel you're gonna [TS]

  be a sucker like you're like you're [TS]

  getting into some kind like for like now [TS]

  with Internet of Things stuff right like [TS]

  you don't want to go all-in spend a [TS]

  thousand dollars on something that's [TS]

  gonna be a Oh El Din like a year like [TS]

  you just don't to feel like a sucker [TS]

  well but also it seems like the internet [TS]

  of things you don't want to do at all [TS]

  am I am I wrong in saying that yeah same [TS]

  for the show you know be careful where [TS]

  you step [TS]

  hmm I do not want my thermostat looking [TS]

  at my bare bottom I know to the sorry [TS]

  you choose who looks at your bare bottom [TS]

  that's you that's Johnny's ition I do [TS]

  sign on to my patreon and go to the top [TS]

  level you'll see my stretch goal [TS]

  I'll reach around you are not gonna see [TS]

  it just because I put a new lock on my [TS]

  door that I gave a man just look at any [TS]

  snorkeler cats girl you know I wonder [TS]

  about that a lot what but by which I [TS]

  mean there's an audience for everything [TS]

  yeah [TS]

  and I've I've considered there have been [TS]

  a couple of times when I was like what [TS]

  if I just went what if I just had a [TS]

  YouTube where I just read things aloud [TS]

  if I just went there and be like yeah [TS]

  some more people would love it yeah but [TS]

  it's just like somebody reading to them [TS]

  who knows how to read and who likes to [TS]

  read aloud I figured I could go on and [TS]

  read all my old Seattle Weekly articles [TS]

  aloud really slowly like here's the [TS]

  thing I mean I don't know but it but I [TS]

  would have to create enough there have [TS]

  to be enough stuff that it would be a [TS]

  channel rather than just like here's 15 [TS]

  episodes of a thing I'll be nice if it [TS]

  had something something thematic to it [TS]

  ride themes themes would be a good theme [TS]

  right I could read I could read aloud [TS]

  all the like BDSM literature that's a [TS]

  good idea or like the way you did with [TS]

  where she can do is harm but the [TS]

  correspondence you chose to include with [TS]

  that wonderful booklet right John you [TS]

  are such a bullshit artist yes [TS]

  Oh read every angry letter I ever got [TS]

  from anybody back so great now you go [TS]

  listen to Spotify you're not gonna get [TS]

  to see John's angry correspondence king [TS]

  coming you know I got it there was [TS]

  something on Facebook the other day from [TS]

  someone of my generation saying do [TS]

  people listen to albums anymore [TS]

  but a lot of the people that replied who [TS]

  are music business people they they [TS]

  there was all this love for the EP which [TS]

  you know what labels that sounds very [TS]

  very like a retcon but you buddy well [TS]

  you buddy peed because you were a [TS]

  superfan and wanted this one tracker [TS]

  because you were cheap these were never [TS]

  the preferred way to get it it's just i [TS]

  bought stuff on EP i eventually got [TS]

  stuff on EP because like you would have [TS]

  this rare version of behind the wall of [TS]

  sleep that was live but like I'd rather [TS]

  have you know the the original you know [TS]

  LP well I'm like an idiot we didn't put [TS]

  commander thanks allowed on an LP it's [TS]

  only put it on an EP but no they were [TS]

  saying digital EPS like you know like we [TS]

  said any mean anymore don't release 10 [TS]

  songs it's a very iTunes II thing like [TS]

  when you go into iTunes and you see like [TS]

  they might be giants obviously have done [TS]

  this a lot of bands have done this Queen [TS]

  have done this there's all these bands [TS]

  with oh my god what are all of these [TS]

  things it's just single single single [TS]

  EEP EEP EEP it must have something to do [TS]

  with the way that things are calculated [TS]

  or distributed you need to EPP well but [TS]

  I liked when I discovered I discovered a [TS]

  new band a little bit ago and I found [TS]

  four of their tunes like I listened to a [TS]

  tune I liked it I listened to another [TS]

  tune full of apprehension please don't [TS]

  let me hate their second song I liked it [TS]

  too this is you know where you're like [TS]

  oh shit the hook is in and I listened to [TS]

  a third song really crossing my fingers [TS]

  like please don't let them only have two [TS]

  good songs and I liked the third song [TS]

  and by the time I got to the fourth song [TS]

  that I liked I said enough it was like [TS]

  blackjack it was like I'm gonna hold [TS]

  because it can't they cannot possibly [TS]

  take this winning streak all the way out [TS]

  to five and I got four of them so like [TS]

  leave me be with these four is enough [TS]

  to listen to on repeat mr. Bandai no car [TS]

  seat car seat headrest car seat headrest [TS]

  aren't work by elephant but the but what [TS]

  it struck me as was like oh shit this is [TS]

  an EP I just self-feed this band hmm [TS]

  yeah well interesting like four Tunes is [TS]

  kind of can pull out four cartoons right [TS]

  I mean if if all INXS had ever done [TS]

  throughout their whole career was just [TS]

  put out four songs every year and a half [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  becomes an e-book there will be a [TS]

  compilation of all the things we just [TS]

  choose to disagree on good stuff they [TS]

  had that dream on white girl black girl [TS]

  song I like that song [TS]

  are you saying that you do not think [TS]

  that INXS had any good songs no no no I [TS]

  think she Bhushan ball had some really [TS]

  good stuff on it and you're right three [TS]

  P's like the weird period like before [TS]

  they got super duper popular like a [TS]

  period before soup and salad bar like [TS]

  they had some really good they had some [TS]

  really good singles for sure good [TS]

  singles I just I think I kind of got a [TS]

  little fatigued on there Bam Bam oh yeah [TS]

  from kick on yeah I I can't listen to it [TS]

  but like that early eighties stuff but I [TS]

  like I think the one thing is really [TS]

  good it's a really good song yeah a [TS]

  little look um you know they were they [TS]

  were up there with you too in terms of [TS]

  like who was good in 1981 yeah and I [TS]

  don't followed them all the way to the [TS]

  first album like like a listen like [TS]

  thieves listen like these I followed [TS]

  them that far what pseudo salad bar that [TS]

  was not any farther suicide blonde was [TS]

  hell it was that 1990 [TS]

  yeah jiminy Christmas it's late it's [TS]

  late salad bar [TS]

  so kick when I was in college kick was [TS]

  popular and I felt like that was there [TS]

  pour some sugar on me like they had they [TS]

  jumped the shark but up until then [TS]

  listen like thieves had had that song [TS]

  that was very pop that I think most [TS]

  normal people did not want to hear but I [TS]

  did which was watch a need get me [TS]

  watching me yeah that's that's for me [TS]

  I'm fine with that [TS]

  oh this time it had this time what you [TS]

  believe last time this time is a very [TS]

  good song like this well this is what [TS]

  I'm saying so here we go yeah there's [TS]

  two really good songs on on listen like [TS]

  thieves and I do not count listen like [TS]

  thieves the song that's one student [TS]

  that's what you need in this time super [TS]

  good [TS]

  two songs and then you go back to the [TS]

  swing the record before that and you're [TS]

  looking like you're looking at you got [TS]

  original sin yeah burn for you I think [TS]

  that was that was my by year yeah only [TS]

  one good song who Shabbat came out in [TS]

  that crazy fucking summer summer 82 [TS]

  there was so much good New Wave and this [TS]

  has got oh don't change don't change is [TS]

  a good song it's a really good song so [TS]

  yeah there it is right there damn freak [TS]

  salt on that record you don't have to [TS]

  look at anything else yeah [TS]

  and that dachshund on the cover [TS]

  underneath the colors let's hope that [TS]

  this continues my theory no doesn't it [TS]

  just has that one song stay on which I [TS]

  don't remember [TS]

  listen 8:00 p.m. to go and then their [TS]

  first record definitely had where was [TS]

  why boy a black girl that's the one that [TS]

  was an EP I think that's the dream on [TS]

  white boy black girl so I think that's [TS]

  easy [TS]

  I think that's an EP let me look uh [TS]

  countdown Awards Grammy Awards okay it [TS]

  might be a thing that has a name that we [TS]

  just glanced over that we don't remember [TS]

  them I'm gonna get it I'm gonna get it [TS]

  I'm gonna get it box that's extended [TS]

  plays [TS]

  ah could be wrong deca dance derp [TS]

  deca dance is it original sin is that [TS]

  the song no that's not it is it may be [TS]

  original sin not going to YouTube I'll [TS]

  cut all this out yeah no Rachel oh but [TS]

  also I will go as far as saying that [TS]

  never tear us apart is a good song [TS]

  that's the one song kick that I that [TS]

  I'll allow you just overdid it with the [TS]

  bat down okay original sir I mean it's [TS]

  you know it's like orc pop but I'm I'm [TS]

  100% down with orc pop mmm I should have [TS]

  been an orc popper what that mean [TS]

  orchestral pop oh oh oh no no what about [TS]

  what about it Tears for Fears where do [TS]

  you stay one Tears for Fears today well [TS]

  you know Tears for Fears with directions [TS]

  back and forth in the public eye I feel [TS]

  like you and I have talked about them [TS]

  before probably the time I was very [TS]

  opposed to Tears for Fears because of [TS]

  the over emotive faces they weren't like [TS]

  echo and the Bunnymen 2.0 for me we're [TS]

  like I incorrectly lumped them in so in [TS]

  my head echo in the bunny man was like [TS]

  almost like a goth band which couldn't [TS]

  be well not further from the truth [TS]

  but like they were a really good guitar [TS]

  pop band like you know fantastic songs [TS]

  and that was bad on me for lumping them [TS]

  in with like what I thought was like [TS]

  silly rock and I think yeah I think [TS]

  Tears for Fears has mostly aged pretty [TS]

  well and there's really really really [TS]

  good singers I you know their songs are [TS]

  really good it was our good friend Mike [TS]

  Squires friend of the program Mike Scott [TS]

  program who's a metalhead who turned me [TS]

  back around on Tears for Fears and he [TS]

  was like hey man you got to get on the [TS]

  right side of Tears for Fears because [TS]

  they're great they're mine right I said [TS]

  I don't have to get on the right side [TS]

  anything and he was like no no seriously [TS]

  this is a really great record and he [TS]

  again one of these situations somebody [TS]

  sat me down like you sat me down in [TS]

  front of the office he sat me down in [TS]

  front of that the tears for the tears is [TS]

  for Fears is and and it was absolutely [TS]

  true like George Michael says listen [TS]

  without prejudice you get back and [TS]

  listen to these outside of that con [TS]

  maybe not watching the music videos [TS]

  that's it you know cuz I see video but [TS]

  like sowing the seeds of love it's kind [TS]

  of a silly song but like I still think [TS]

  that's a really a generally good psych [TS]

  pop song but you remember you remember [TS]

  the power you know the the power that a [TS]

  music video had at the time so he [TS]

  make-or-break how you felt about a thing [TS]

  and famous cars would have gotten as big [TS]

  as they got without the videos on [TS]

  heartbeat city I mean the cars were [TS]

  those songs are so great but Ric Ocasek [TS]

  and those his faith and those crazy [TS]

  videos and polina parts of Cova yes [TS]

  supermodel that was all very very like [TS]

  it was so graphic and even then bands [TS]

  were putting out videos where it was [TS]

  just like a camcorder and some like [TS]

  after after effect well that's why those [TS]

  records especially we remember when the [TS]

  video from magic came out he was like [TS]

  walking on water in the pool and it was [TS]

  like oh my god because it's gonna win [TS]

  all of the MTV like special Achievement [TS]

  Awards and yeah I mean wasn't their [TS]

  finest work but like its they're good [TS]

  pop songs they had a little bit of the [TS]

  synchronicity problem synchronicity [TS]

  another one that goes on the list I [TS]

  believe isn't that another one we agree [TS]

  to disagree I'm Pro synchronicity okay [TS]

  yeah but no is it I know that you I know [TS]

  that you have feelings about it close to [TS]

  the machine baby [TS]

  I mean post synchronicity you know what [TS]

  is there Russians Russians love their [TS]

  children too but with rhyming dictionary [TS]

  famously Billy Squier came out with that [TS]

  music video where he would see him sing [TS]

  rock mean Internet in a in a pink tank [TS]

  top that was that was the the room of [TS]

  its time that that is a very difficult [TS]

  video to watch today yeah well and and [TS]

  his record sales went away yeah [TS]

  apparently because of the video but a [TS]

  lot of that stuff like the first time [TS]

  that you saw sting in dream of the blue [TS]

  turtles do that weird dance with his [TS]

  Stratocaster I never wanted to I [TS]

  wouldn't I didn't want to ever see sting [TS]

  again I didn't want to see him right [TS]

  because it was such a weird dance and I [TS]

  think Tears for Fears had a lot of that [TS]

  like just the way there the way they [TS]

  composed there [TS]

  while they sang it just was so emo yeah [TS]

  I was like I don't want to watch you [TS]

  guys here do like grossing me out with [TS]

  your emo it's unseemly it's that that [TS]

  was it that was a kind of like a strat [TS]

  dance that I think like been from Death [TS]

  Cab kind of refined into making his own [TS]

  thing he he has a special guitar dance [TS]

  that I think is very effective he does a [TS]

  hip a hip a rhythmic not in a sexy way [TS]

  but a rhythmic hip thrusting thing [TS]