The Accidental Tech Podcast

257: Smell the Wind


  we this and almost nothing else image [TS]

  capture says oh I can't do that because [TS]

  of air 9 negative nine thousand nine [TS]

  hundred seventeen and I was like wolf [TS]

  crap at this point I'm basically using [TS]

  Windows already that's a useful error [TS]

  message negative nine nine thousand [TS]

  seven system is negative number errors [TS]

  right it's probably an OS status that's [TS]

  that's uh that's that's deep Mac flavor [TS]

  negative number and in a dialog error [TS]

  dialog all I'm saying is it was a [TS]

  completely non actionable error and I [TS]

  could not find anything useful on the [TS]

  internet about what to do about it and I [TS]

  don't know if the issue was that [TS]

  something on my iPhone is corrupted and [TS]

  the issue is iOS software is kind of [TS]

  broken or at least for me anyway I don't [TS]

  know if it was something that was wrong [TS]

  with my Mac I tried two different Mac's [TS]

  had different but similar problems [TS]

  across both it's just things like what [TS]

  roommates I can tell you what the [TS]

  problem was you were doing something [TS]

  that Apple does not give that they could [TS]

  not possibly give less efficient about [TS]

  you were connecting an iPad or you can [TS]

  se an iPhone to your Mac with a cable [TS]

  and then you were launching an old [TS]

  program from the Mac OS utilities folder [TS]

  to try to take data off of your iPhone [TS]

  over a wire Apple could not give less [TS]

  efficient about that so it's never [TS]

  tested and I think you're probably right [TS]

  and that's just really too bad right and [TS]

  maybe the problem is this gets me maybe [TS]

  the problem is Kaycee again and that [TS]

  maybe I just need to accept iCloud photo [TS]

  library but for reasons that are not [TS]

  interesting and that I don't care to [TS]

  explain I'm not all in on iCloud photo [TS]

  library and because it in the past it [TS]

  was always fine because I would just I [TS]

  would have to remember to pull things [TS]

  off my phone but no big deal that it [TS]

  worked every time a hundred percent of [TS]

  the time it worked every time [TS]

  now sixty percent of the time it works [TS]

  every time that's also a reference John [TS]

  so anyway though it's just it I found [TS]

  myself and I think I made the same [TS]

  speech again like six months ago I found [TS]

  myself just more and more annoyed that [TS]

  things that used to reliably work don't [TS]

  work anymore [TS]

  and it was such whiplash because in the [TS]

  in in the same you know day or two [TS]

  window I've just head over heels fallen [TS]

  in love with this with this MacBook [TS]

  adorable and thoughts myself you know [TS]

  what even though I'm not the kind of [TS]

  person to buy computers hourly like [TS]

  Marco I I will probably get a new [TS]

  adorable whenever it's refreshed because [TS]

  I want more of this adorable [TS]

  I want more speed I want more ports and [TS]

  if they don't give me more ports that's [TS]

  fine but if they give me more speed [TS]

  that's great the adorable fans have to [TS]

  buy every one because each one is barely [TS]

  usable so any improvements like oh my [TS]

  god please it's not that bad I [TS]

  understand your point I understand your [TS]

  point so I go from like just being [TS]

  overjoyed by this adorable and generally [TS]

  speaking I'm pretty overjoyed with my [TS]

  iPhone 10 and then I just see these [TS]

  software issues that are just depressing [TS]

  and in disheartening it's pressing may [TS]

  not be the right word but just just just [TS]

  heartening and it makes me just feel [TS]

  like it's like that throw your hands in [TS]

  the air like and don't wave them like [TS]

  you don't care cuz you do care you just [TS]

  throw your hands in the air and then [TS]

  plop them down on the desk you just like [TS]

  well now what now what do I do cuz I'm [TS]

  just screwed I mean where am I gonna go [TS]

  and it's a rhetorical question and I [TS]

  don't think we need to answer it but [TS]

  it's just frustrating because it used to [TS]

  be this was my happy place and maybe [TS]

  maybe the problem is that said I'm [TS]

  clinging to the Mac and the Mac is dead [TS]

  again we don't need to go there we spent [TS]

  so much time there it's not even worth [TS]

  it plus I don't want to give Federico [TS]

  and Mike the the pleasure but one way or [TS]

  another it's I don't know where the [TS]

  issue is if it's me if it's the Mac if [TS]

  it's Apple if it's software it's [TS]

  hardware it is in this case like you're [TS]

  just sending your photos workflow is a [TS]

  little bit old right and so I'm not like [TS]

  Marco said you are exercising code paths [TS]

  that are not popular anymore with most [TS]

  other people so they're gonna be [TS]

  abandoned not tested as much so you're [TS]

  keeping your habits hey I use image [TS]

  capture this is how I do my photos is [TS]

  just the way I like to do it and time [TS]

  marches on and everyone else has [TS]

  different photo workflows they do not [TS]

  exercise this code path at all it's kind [TS]

  of like if you you know I I manually [TS]

  arrange my music I don't want to use [TS]

  iTunes so I manually arrange it and I [TS]

  play the stuff manually from the finder [TS]

  where it's like you can keep doing that [TS]

  for a long time but once everyone starts [TS]

  using iTunes it's hard to swim against [TS]

  that tide no like [TS]

  now they sell music and I'm forced to [TS]

  use iTunes is the only way I can buy [TS]

  music because I can play the Fairplay [TS]

  beer and both like how long can you keep [TS]

  doing it [TS]

  the one old way that you did it you keep [TS]

  doing it the one all the way forever [TS]

  if you never update anything else about [TS]

  your computing life right and but you [TS]

  know it's it's hard to hold on to that [TS]

  so it's like you know you're using [TS]

  third-party software that fewer and [TS]

  fewer people are using for the tasks [TS]

  you're using it for [TS]

  and you're asking more and more of it [TS]

  because you're taking more bigger more [TS]

  complicated pictures in different [TS]

  formats alright so this it's not you [TS]

  know I'm not saying you're doing [TS]

  anything particularly wrong but it's [TS]

  it's explicable right and I think [TS]

  there's it's inevitable in situations [TS]

  where you're like that we don't have [TS]

  computer habits that are like that we're [TS]

  like I'm just gonna keep doing it this [TS]

  way until I can't do it anymore I think [TS]

  you may be approaching the until you [TS]

  can't do it anymore [TS]

  think because unless you're gonna write [TS]

  the Mac app yourself to handle this [TS]

  which you were just entertaining the [TS]

  idea of doing probably there's not a big [TS]

  market for other people to write Mac [TS]

  applications to support these kind of [TS]

  workflows so as I think we have all done [TS]

  at various points there comes a time [TS]

  where you say I will give in and try [TS]

  whatever everyone else is doing try the [TS]

  you know iCloud photo library try Google [TS]

  photos try get back on the code path [TS]

  that is being actively developed that [TS]

  has lots of people using and that if it [TS]

  breaks spectacularly at least you'll be [TS]

  suffering along with millions of other [TS]

  people who will cause the thing to be [TS]

  fixed whereas here you are just [TS]

  screaming to the void about a very high [TS]

  number negative error code from from [TS]

  image capture and by the way I put a [TS]

  link in in our notes for the good old [TS]

  days of negative numbers and error [TS]

  messages from the Mac when most of them [TS]

  were singular double digits before we [TS]

  got into negative nine thousand four [TS]

  hundred and seventy-eight we had good [TS]

  old negative 27 and it was like a good [TS]

  friend and then you'd have to turn your [TS]

  computer off and back on again no memory [TS]

  protection so I agree with everything [TS]

  you said but with one small correction I [TS]

  the the pieces of this workflow that are [TS]

  falling down right now that that I was [TS]

  complaining or that I'm without I was [TS]

  complaining about a moment ago that was [TS]

  all first party you had said third party [TS]

  maybe that was accidental but this is [TS]

  image capture which is first party using [TS]

  then it was like Marco said it's [TS]

  something you dig in something that I've [TS]

  liked is that in utilities folder but [TS]

  anyway yes it is first party there's [TS]

  lots of applications [TS]

  that come with the Mac that haven't been [TS]

  touched in forever or end that if they [TS]

  stop working who's gonna notice like [TS]

  when's the last time you launch the [TS]

  chest application as I still work are [TS]

  there bugs in the chest application I [TS]

  don't know also like the conditions that [TS]

  it's like this is operating in are [TS]

  changing like now that iCloud photo [TS]

  library is on phones and that photo [TS]

  management is kind of automatic and [TS]

  managed you know on on the device the [TS]

  interface to interface capture like [TS]

  exposing the DCIM folder and exposing [TS]

  photos like like you know through a [TS]

  virtual file system on the phone that [TS]

  the computer can just copy off of like I [TS]

  think that's all simulated at this point [TS]

  or something [TS]

  it's it's different it's all weird now [TS]

  because iCloud photo library messes with [TS]

  what photos are actually on the phone [TS]

  and what control you have over that and [TS]

  like if things try to access them weird [TS]

  things might happen so like it's [TS]

  probably running into something is [TS]

  different now with that versus with [TS]

  maybe the you know the HCI C and he you [TS]

  know change over and not to mention the [TS]

  High Sierra appears that nothing has [TS]

  been tested at all in the entire OS ever [TS]

  so like you know it's the combination of [TS]

  all these things like you have one of [TS]

  those one of those things is going to [TS]

  make your incredibly low priority use [TS]

  case not work but this is like you know [TS]

  this is not an excuse this is probably [TS]

  just the reason ultimately this is like [TS]

  I I totally share I think your your [TS]

  disappointment here it's like clearly [TS]

  you know both the hardware and the [TS]

  software on the Mac we're really being [TS]

  elected for a few few bad years there it [TS]

  seems like they have righted or are [TS]

  riding the ship on the hardware side but [TS]

  the software side I don't see any sign [TS]

  of that and that's so like we're just [TS]

  gonna keep having more and more [TS]

  embarrassing disheartening OS releases [TS]

  where it seems like more gets broken [TS]

  then gets fixed that's my concern and I [TS]

  hope that doesn't come past but so far [TS]

  that is what's happening we have brought [TS]

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  Squarespace sites are so incredibly easy [TS]

  to make there's pretty much no reason if [TS]

  you need to make a new website somewhere [TS]

  there's pretty much no reason to make it [TS]

  anywhere else try to make it a square [TS]

  space first see how far you get I bet [TS]

  you can pretty much do whatever you need [TS]

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  Squarespace in almost no time with [TS]

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  maintenance overtime this to me is like [TS]

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  were starting a new blog or podcast or [TS]

  video or business or gallery or whatever [TS]

  that somebody needs a website you can do [TS]

  it other means you and and if you listen [TS]

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  signing yourself up for an indefinite [TS]

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  maintenance and with Squarespace you [TS]

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  gallery it's that easy you don't have to [TS]

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  maintain from Squarespace there's [TS]

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  well hmmm [TS]

  there actually is let me yeah I was I [TS]

  was saving this but do you want to do [TS]

  ask ATP that's always that pretty happy [TS]

  yes let's do a CTP and then I have an [TS]

  after-show gift for you Casey to [TS]

  celebrate your new baby another baby no [TS]

  it's it's it's literally it is a gift [TS]

  for Casey you'll see all right let's do [TS]

  a skating right if we're talking about [TS]

  the Mac Pro I'm hanging up we're not [TS]

  that's first of all part one of the gift [TS]

  is we're not talking with the Mac Pro [TS]

  all right fair enough all right starting [TS]

  with the ask a teepee Eric Berlin writes [TS]

  do you expect the release of the iMac [TS]

  Pro will slow the update cadence of the [TS]

  non Pro iMac for example would Apple [TS]

  hold back a 6 core coffee like iMac [TS]

  config [TS]

  in 2018 because it would outperform the [TS]

  eight core Zeon W configuration in the [TS]

  current Mac Pro it's an interesting [TS]

  question I would think that it would not [TS]

  slow things down because they're they're [TS]

  serving different purposes and me okay [TS]

  maybe single core is way better on the [TS]

  non pro iMac but presumably multi-core [TS]

  will always be way way way way way [TS]

  better on the iMac Pro so I don't think [TS]

  this would be the case but I am not [TS]

  terribly confident in my guess here [TS]

  Marco terribly confident I [TS]

  yeah to me it's no question the iMac Pro [TS]

  was like they're not going to hold back [TS]

  new releases of the regular iMac that [TS]

  outpace or come close to the iMac pros [TS]

  performance in certain ways due to the [TS]

  progress of the consumer CPUs versus the [TS]

  progress of the Zeon's I know that I [TS]

  really have them yeah I know this [TS]

  because not only is the current iMac [TS]

  faster in single core but most of the [TS]

  microcut it will always be almost yeah [TS]

  but also there I did it once the 2013 [TS]

  Mac Pro cylinder that came out was [TS]

  bested seven months later or eight [TS]

  months later when the iMac 5k came out [TS]

  and those processors were faster than in [TS]

  single core so they've already done this [TS]

  in the past it is currently the case [TS]

  they don't let that control them at all [TS]

  Apple is confident enough and neglectful [TS]

  enough of the Mac Pro but they it's a [TS]

  combination of like you know they know [TS]

  that like I'm Mac Pro buyers are not [TS]

  going to not buy the iMac fro in [TS]

  meaningful numbers because the newest [TS]

  iMac is now slightly faster in single [TS]

  threaded tasks that's that's not a major [TS]

  factor for most Pro buyers also I don't [TS]

  think Apple would care and also they you [TS]

  know that they're not they would never [TS]

  hold back the release plans of consumer [TS]

  lines in order to favor a Mac Pro lie he [TS]

  told care about the Mac Pro to do that [TS]

  but it's at the time yeah and if they [TS]

  had to wait on Xeon timelines they would [TS]

  never update anything it would be [TS]

  ridiculous like part of this is Intel [TS]

  but like but but honestly it's like it [TS]

  the single core differences like it's [TS]

  good for bragging right in benchmarks [TS]

  you're a few percentage faster but the [TS]

  multi-core difference when you have 18 [TS]

  cores for a good parallel thing is [TS]

  you're you know you're many times faster [TS]

  so it's the difference of like minor [TS]

  percentages and bragging rights versus a [TS]

  fundamental change in your workflow of [TS]

  like if I can do this three times faster [TS]

  that's why you buy a pro Mac if you know [TS]

  and if you want fastest single core [TS]

  performance Apple sells you one of those [TS]

  like if that's what you want like for [TS]

  you know you have some tasks that is you [TS]

  can't make multi-threaded and you want [TS]

  the absolute fastest machine you can do [TS]

  it [TS]

  Apple will sell you one but it's gonna [TS]

  make a change in your life that is in [TS]

  like single or double digit percentages [TS]

  it's not going to be like 500 percent [TS]

  faster like it might be if you go from a [TS]

  you know a low core count on a low-end [TS]

  iMac to 18 cores on the top-end [TS]

  iMac Pro so I honestly I don't think I [TS]

  don't think they really compete with [TS]

  each other now it could be argued that [TS]

  you know for the people who just want [TS]

  everything all the time which you know [TS]

  we've been so conditioned to expects a [TS]

  little but I ask you this but yeah you [TS]

  can take one of those Intel CPUs that [TS]

  has the fastest single core performance [TS]

  and wedge it into an iMac Pro if they [TS]

  make one of those that supports ECC Ram [TS]

  like the eye nine or whatever or [TS]

  something like that like you could say [TS]

  why why won't Apple sell me an iMac Pro [TS]

  with a low core count that is just as [TS]

  fast as the iMac 5k yeah you know like I [TS]

  don't think again I don't think there's [TS]

  a demand for that like if you want that [TS]

  buy 5k iMac because you know it's not [TS]

  it's not appreciably different right [TS]

  you're not getting the big multi-core [TS]

  performance the reason it's so fast in [TS]

  single core is because well it's that [TS]

  it's not busy online so it's revved more [TS]

  and because you can go faster where you [TS]

  don't have so many damn cores shoved [TS]

  inside there so it's a long way of [TS]

  answering Eric's question to say they [TS]

  won't hold it back don't worry okay they [TS]

  might not ship new iMacs for other [TS]

  reasons but believe me it's not because [TS]

  they're afraid of stopping on their pro [TS]

  max all right Andy Hume writes what are [TS]

  John's plans for his cheese grater after [TS]

  he replaces it sell it donate it to the [TS]

  Hackett collection and I'm going to add [TS]

  my guess which is it'll go in your attic [TS]

  never to be seen again [TS]

  yeah I had a collection before Hackett [TS]

  was in short pants Wow giant collection [TS]

  of stuff in my attic that's probably [TS]

  where it's going room but I have a half [TS]

  of mine to answer this literally because [TS]

  I actually do have plans for and [TS]

  collections of actual cheese graders [TS]

  because oXXO makes it actually used to [TS]

  make a cheese grater for that I used to [TS]

  grate cheese it was the one hard cheese [TS]

  grater that I found like very satisfying [TS]

  and they stopped the making it so much [TS]

  they stopped making it because it had [TS]

  like a design flaw like it had had this [TS]

  flappy plastic part of it that would [TS]

  eventually crack so I kind of understand [TS]

  why they stopped making it because you [TS]

  know it would last like a couple of [TS]

  years and then that thing would crack so [TS]

  it's like oh you know we need to go back [TS]

  to the drawing board because yeah this [TS]

  thing is great but eventually it cracks [TS]

  and the one they replaced it with is [TS]

  terrible it is ergonomically bad you [TS]

  don't get as much mechanical advantage [TS]

  when you no pressing the cheese against [TS]

  the the grating part that turns or [TS]

  whatever I continue to wish and hope for [TS]

  and have many times thought about trying [TS]

  to tinker my way into a electric powered [TS]

  one of these because it is difficult to [TS]

  do and tiring kind of tedious if you use [TS]

  as much Parmesan cheese as I do to [TS]

  constantly have to be grading it by hand [TS]

  you can't really use a food processor or [TS]

  any other things for a variety of other [TS]

  reasons you kind of need something it's [TS]

  slow high torque anyway I've thought [TS]

  about it a little bit but in the [TS]

  meantime these Oxford cheeseburgers they [TS]

  don't make anymore [TS]

  I think either I or my wife for some [TS]

  combination like we waited too long we [TS]

  realized we went to like buy a new one [TS]

  after one of ours cracked mic we can't [TS]

  find it anymore what happened to when [TS]

  you found it it was discontinued and we [TS]

  tried a bunch of other ones and they all [TS]

  suck and it was like we need to there's [TS]

  no we need to just find every one of [TS]

  these things it's still for sale so I [TS]

  have like a collection of three of them [TS]

  I think in the basement my current one [TS]

  is slowly cracking upstairs in my [TS]

  kitchen right now and when I go through [TS]

  those three like I don't know what I'm [TS]

  gonna do it may be at that point it's [TS]

  time for me to build my electric powered [TS]

  one but anyway my plans for my cheese [TS]

  graters are grim like I don't know what [TS]

  I'm gonna do after I go through all [TS]

  three of them but my friends alone [TS]

  MacPro [TS]

  it will go into my attic alongside its [TS]

  brethren surely it will because this is [TS]

  one of my champion max of all times it [TS]

  will go it will have a place of honor [TS]

  next to my ac30 Wow I never in a million [TS]

  years did I think that that was where [TS]

  this was this question was going to end [TS]

  up and I this is one of the reasons I [TS]

  love this show so damn much because [TS]

  that's where we ended up alrighty and [TS]

  finally in our diversion into a skate EP [TS]

  that's going to make us happy again Kurt [TS]

  asks hey remember messages in iCloud [TS]

  whomp-whomp [TS]

  is this question like what's the quit [TS]

  yeah honestly I almost forgot about it [TS]

  but like yeah there's there's no look [TS]

  there's no news here if they announced [TS]

  it it isn't here you know it it probably [TS]

  got delayed until the next OS release oh [TS]

  well I wanted actually is a topic in the [TS]

  list for a long time and it kept getting [TS]

  pushed down and I want to say to this [TS]

  question yeah I remember it looking [TS]

  forward to it every time I go to [TS]

  messages and I see a different [TS]

  collection of messages and a different [TS]

  conversation contents on my Mac and on [TS]

  my phone that are like sitting two feet [TS]

  from each other I think why why does [TS]

  this have to be this way so I really [TS]

  hope fine if it's not done like by all [TS]

  means like wait until it's done right [TS]

  but I really really hope that this [TS]

  feature appears eventually yeah me too [TS]

  it mean there's a reason why I got like [TS]

  a noticeable applause during the keynote [TS]

  where it was announced last summer but [TS]

  you know yeah it's it's a kind of thing [TS]

  like if look if it's not done don't ship [TS]

  it if it's unreliable or if it's broken [TS]

  like the system we have now is already [TS]

  and reliable in Birken we don't need to [TS]

  be broken in new ways like let's wait [TS]

  until it works right and then ship it [TS]

  and then you know I'd rather have it you [TS]

  know late then wrong well thanks to our [TS]

  sponsors this week Squarespace hello and [TS]

  our X bar and we will see you next week [TS]

  now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

  mean to begin because it was accidental [TS]

  oh it was accidental Johnny research [TS]

  Marco and Casey wouldn't let him because [TS]

  it was accidental it was accidental you [TS]

  can find the show notes at a CAS pyl ISS [TS]

  so that's Casey list and a are Co AR m [TS]

  and T Marco Arment [TS]

  si R ACC Syracuse [TS]

  so Casey I have a gift for you okay I [TS]

  was I was wondering where whether to [TS]

  keep this secret how long to keep the [TS]

  secret but at some point the secret is [TS]

  going to fall out so I figured I might [TS]

  as well come clean with you now oh my [TS]

  god I think he fired you somehow I got [TS]

  you fired from your job that's his gift [TS]

  that's it yeah yeah I really know as you [TS]

  to your boss say well filled with full [TS]

  of profanity that would be for me so it [TS]

  doesn't make sense yeah actually yes so [TS]

  my gift to you is revealing the secret [TS]

  Tiff's got me a vinyl player for [TS]

  Christmas look at the box they're [TS]

  definitely not called vinyl players this [TS]

  is the best moment of my life right now [TS]

  yeah you could use a gift after after [TS]

  your probably sleepless week all right [TS]

  so can you can you uh can you give me [TS]

  context for this like is she buying it [TS]

  for you as a joke is it something that [TS]

  you mentioned you want is it something [TS]

  that she wanted and is passing it off as [TS]

  a gift to you but really she wants it is [TS]

  this her bowling ball so we've had the [TS]

  hello Internet episode of vinyl sitting [TS]

  on like two years or however long it's [TS]

  been since it came out [TS]

  does she know she can make a player out [TS]

  of a cone of paper and a needle did not [TS]

  know that actually I guess that makes [TS]

  sense yeah yeah anyway so we got she got [TS]

  me a turntable so that we could play the [TS]

  hello internet vinyl and I have a [TS]

  turntable and I have that that [TS]

  particular record the spoilers not at a [TS]

  time not even either I've had it for [TS]

  forever and I still haven't had a chance [TS]

  to play it so I'm right there with you [TS]

  but that's awesome so I need to start [TS]

  sending you actual good music in the [TS]

  snot fish post paste well and she also [TS]

  got me a fish album she got me yeah [TS]

  a live one in history giveth and taketh [TS]

  away [TS]

  so so I we've actually so I actually [TS]

  decided you know because also over the [TS]

  holidays we visited Mike and Adina and [TS]

  they had a turntable and they were and [TS]

  we we they were playing music on it [TS]

  during our entire you know you know meal [TS]

  there and it was really nice to just [TS]

  kind of be hanging out and to have music [TS]

  playing now yeah you can't do that [TS]

  without vinyl that's for sure right and [TS]

  so it was nice though and so it okay [TS]

  let's I'll try this on like you know [TS]

  it's it's like trying on a new style of [TS]

  hat or something it's like here's [TS]

  something that like the hip people are [TS]

  doing I don't know if I don't know if [TS]

  this is my thing but I'll try it on you [TS]

  know and so I tried it on and so I have [TS]

  a couple of albums you know and also by [TS]

  the way [TS]

  boy do I suck at buying vinyl there's a [TS]

  lot of albums that are available on [TS]

  violently the modern album so you know [TS]

  besides like the night you know the ones [TS]

  that were originally issued on vinyl [TS]

  like in like the 60s and stuff [TS]

  but there's a lot of like modern modern [TS]

  albums and reissues from like the 90s [TS]

  and stuff that have been reissued now [TS]

  and vinyl now that now that's like a [TS]

  growth business that you can charge [TS]

  people twenty five dollars for the same [TS]

  album they bought twenty years ago most [TS]

  of them that I have found like about [TS]

  half of the ones I have found I have [TS]

  accidentally bought them where it's like [TS]

  they split what was one CD on to two [TS]

  records and so each side of each record [TS]

  has three or two songs on it followed by [TS]

  this giant wide strip of black silence [TS]

  in the middle yes so this is like I know [TS]

  how to use them you don't remember that [TS]

  like you don't remember one of the [TS]

  things about CDs being its capacity for [TS]

  like how many minutes of audio you can [TS]

  have on it and with the compromises [TS]

  about the inner and outer tracks like [TS]

  that those things were gone like that [TS]

  was one of the innovations of CDs oh my [TS]

  god I just figured it out yeah cuz the [TS]

  air the outer tracks will rotate more so [TS]

  they'll have more fidelity oh that's why [TS]

  they do it final as the show oh that's [TS]

  those ticks all right did you see [TS]

  I was trying to think of a way to say it [TS]

  without cursing but I just said after [TS]

  show yeah so like he so let me tell you [TS]

  my annoyance is first then I'll get into [TS]

  some things I actually like about it [TS]

  yeah like so many like I bought albums [TS]

  thinking like oh I love this album it's [TS]

  good because you might get my criteria [TS]

  is obviously things that I want to play [TS]

  like out loud with other people around [TS]

  that I wouldn't be embarrassed by the [TS]

  whole album has to be good all the way [TS]

  through cuz skipping songs is not really [TS]

  an easy thing oh it's not bad I [TS]

  understand your point but it's not bad [TS]

  so anyway and and I had to get a photo [TS]

  preamp so I got of course the one from [TS]

  shit I forgive that alright this record [TS]

  player is just a way for a marker to buy [TS]

  more amps and other German boxes with [TS]

  vulgar names one box a photo preamp [TS]

  because the turntable do not have a [TS]

  built-in preamp okay so first of all I'm [TS]

  like you know I connect everything up [TS]

  and there's like just constant constant [TS]

  low-level noise coming out of speaker [TS]

  and I'm like well something's wrong warm [TS]

  doesn't it yes so it's like I get like I [TS]

  got a ground loop isolator I tried that [TS]

  tried like a power isolating brick I [TS]

  tried like different different cables in [TS]

  case the cables were introducing [TS]

  interferences everything's analog so [TS]

  like everything can use interference and [TS]

  in all analog signal path tried lots of [TS]

  things isolated lots of things it turns [TS]

  out yeah that's just like the noise [TS]

  floor of this cartridge or whatever it's [TS]

  like there's no like it isn't the ground [TS]

  loop it isn't electrical interference [TS]

  like it's it's just like yeah just the [TS]

  noise floor isn't that isn't that low [TS]

  and and definitely the my least favorite [TS]

  thing about playing them is how often [TS]

  you have to flip it over because each [TS]

  side holds I think a maximum of [TS]

  something like 22 minutes or 20 minutes [TS]

  something like that you know these [TS]

  number John no I don't remember from my [TS]

  youth but I'm sure I surely do remember [TS]

  flipping yeah exactly so you have to [TS]

  flip them you know every like four or [TS]

  five songs basically unless you have one [TS]

  of these stupid audiophile ones that I [TS]

  accidentally bought where it's like you [TS]

  take one out and split onto four and you [TS]

  go about every two songs thanks a lot [TS]

  anyway I will say in in this endeavor [TS]

  there are things that I [TS]

  unexpectedly like about it the best way [TS]

  I can the best metaphor I've come up [TS]

  with for this is it's kind of like a [TS]

  Kindle is for reading like a Kindle does [TS]

  not look as good as an iPad or a printed [TS]

  page like the the the resolution of the [TS]

  text is nowhere near it even on the new [TS]

  Kindles with the higher resolution [TS]

  screens - no it's nowhere close to [TS]

  either print or even Retina screens on [TS]

  an iPad pro like a Kindle by all [TS]

  accounts looks worse it also does less [TS]

  and functions worse in a number of ways [TS]

  than other ways to read books but the [TS]

  the appeal of Kindles is that they can [TS]

  do nothing else so it it kind of helps [TS]

  you appreciate the book more that this [TS]

  that if you're using this device to read [TS]

  books that's all you're doing like [TS]

  that's all you you kind of have to put [TS]

  some effort into it that's all you're [TS]

  doing it's not going to ever do anything [TS]

  else it's very simple etc playing music [TS]

  on vinyl is a pain in the X but it's a [TS]

  way to like deliberately sit down and [TS]

  choose to enjoy an album and this works [TS]

  especially for me because I'm I've [TS]

  always been an album listener even when [TS]

  I listen to mp3s and everything I don't [TS]

  listen on shuffle to my whole collection [TS]

  or anything I don't make playlists I [TS]

  listen to albums all the way through [TS]

  that's how I've always listened for like [TS]

  the last 20 years like that's just how I [TS]

  listen to music and I've joked Tift like [TS]

  oh we could've just gotten a CD player [TS]

  I'm gonna say there are other devices [TS]

  music I know I know but I'm saying like [TS]

  you know this is a pain in the end and [TS]

  it's a novelty and it's you know I don't [TS]

  expect to be playing vinyl forever and [TS]

  it doesn't sound better it sounds worse [TS]

  notes will be worse you know I'm not I'm [TS]

  not [TS]

  my-my-my making fun of Casey in the past [TS]

  on vinyl is that you know I don't mind [TS]

  if people say they enjoy it more I do [TS]

  mind when people say it sounds better [TS]

  because it doesn't and it can't and it [TS]

  never will but I do appreciate the [TS]

  activity of playing music on vinyl now [TS]

  in a way I didn't appreciate before so [TS]

  that is my gift to you Casey you need to [TS]

  get one of those I don't know if they [TS]

  make these but like the best analogy is [TS]

  like one of these things you use for [TS]

  like pets or animals where like it looks [TS]

  like a record player and you put a [TS]

  record on it and you put the little [TS]

  needle in and you hear the little [TS]

  crackle but then what actually happens [TS]

  is behind the scenes it plays just you [TS]

  know a digital audio file that is [TS]

  exactly equivalent to whatever record [TS]

  you put on there so you can get the [TS]

  audio quality you want with all the [TS]

  other stuff that you want from her like [TS]

  so you get you get all the ceremony of [TS]

  doing it help make the make the digital [TS]

  audio file stop and make you flip the [TS]

  disc before it plays the next two tracks [TS]

  I've actually been scheming like I [TS]

  wonder if I could get a Raspberry Pi or [TS]

  something [TS]

  next to the record player and just put [TS]

  an SD card and had like have cheap SD [TS]

  cards in the pocket of each vinyl cover [TS]

  and just like stick it so you just what [TS]

  you just want to do is put a plastic [TS]

  disc on something and drop a needle on [TS]

  it that's what you want to happen and [TS]

  they use music play music doesn't have [TS]

  to come from that thing yeah it's anyway [TS]

  well so you didn't you didn't adequately [TS]

  explain to me I guess it was it was it [TS]

  just the the hello intern and that's [TS]

  like literally it or just if actually [TS]

  was to have actually convinced by the [TS]

  the moon hipsters from London that this [TS]

  is a thing they have to do you have to [TS]

  do to regain your youth and coolness I [TS]

  think some of both certainly and you [TS]

  know it's a cool thing it's it's a [TS]

  really nicely designed object like it's [TS]

  a nice like hipster turntable it's like [TS]

  this like you know minimal minimal [TS]

  visual design thing made of wood like [TS]

  it's really nice-looking so I think it's [TS]

  a combination of all those things [TS]

  well I'm very disappointed in you Marco [TS]

  oh yeah you I'm very disappointed in [TS]

  Mike Medina but uh you know they're [TS]

  young so next year I'll buy I'll buy an [TS]

  SI CD player maybe and I'll tell you how [TS]

  that goes oh no I would not be I would [TS]

  say there you go you know you're on the [TS]

  right track you got to get a Nakamichi [TS]

  stereo and a super audio CD player and [TS]

  what was the other one DVD audio DVD a [TS]

  yeah I think that's dead I think si CD I [TS]

  mean both formats as well you can get [TS]

  like if you get a Sony blu-ray player it [TS]

  will it's they're almost all also si CD [TS]

  players hmm so you so I could get like a [TS]

  Sony 4k blue because I was saying like [TS]

  maybe I should have [TS]

  okay blu-ray player okay TV now yeah [TS]

  exactly so I could all have it you can [TS]

  think I think of the ceremony of the [TS]

  blu-ray as you wait for a Java to load [TS]

  the stupid menus that's all part of the [TS]

  ceremony Margot I met it's very I'm very [TS]

  yeah I want to be very clear here I [TS]

  don't give two craps about the ceremony [TS]

  I I appreciate the idea of sitting down [TS]

  to deliberately and only listen to music [TS]

  like to to just enjoy the music that is [TS]

  playing and not have it be part of a [TS]

  whole separate like computing experience [TS]

  and multimedia device and everything [TS]

  like it's it's hard you could just get a [TS]

  CD player I'm not convinced you don't [TS]

  you don't care about the ceremony I [TS]

  don't care about ceremony I'm not [TS]

  convinced and and just just give you a [TS]

  few more days I'm flipping these discs [TS]

  and believe me you know what else you [TS]

  can do with records you might remember [TS]

  from your youth they shatter real good [TS]

  when you have fights with them well it's [TS]

  also it's kind of cool to lay first of [TS]

  all like the the the services like like [TS]

  I've been buying most of them on Amazon [TS]

  the ones that are still in print at [TS]

  least and it's cool because like they [TS]

  include a digital copy if you buy vinyl [TS]

  in Amazon it automatically adds that [TS]

  album to your music collection that is [TS]

  the most millennia lips or thing I've [TS]

  ever heard in my life well I'm sure you [TS]

  buy a record and it comes yeah yeah cut [TS]

  some of the ones I bought have the CD in [TS]

  a paper sleeve inside the inside the [TS]

  fire like it comes one reason I've never [TS]

  seen that yeah I think I think the [TS]

  nickel creek when I thought I think has [TS]

  that band great great fan I know yeah if [TS]

  you if you buy the one with the corn [TS]

  song on the elephant the corn the album [TS]

  that has that on it it's come to that [TS]

  you know how they make like like USB [TS]

  thumb drives out of all sorts of things [TS]

  and they need to come up with a vinyl [TS]

  album that is itself actually an SD card [TS]

  like it's an SD card with a huge [TS]

  circular grooved handle this is a record [TS]

  but it really is a giant SD card yeah so [TS]

  anyway yeah it's I again it's I know [TS]

  it's ridiculous and it does not sound [TS]

  better and it's a bit of a pain in the [TS]

  ass but it is kind of fun I also I kind [TS]

  of like having the giant album [TS]

  art look what this is like the original [TS]

  album art that's what you should be [TS]

  buying you should just be buying record [TS]

  sleeves and putting them on your walls [TS]

  art don't listen to them look at them [TS]

  that's actually not a bad idea okay look [TS]

  at things I used to have I used to have [TS]

  long boxes on my wall when the scene I [TS]

  liked it as a replacement of like [TS]

  because I was kind of disappointed that [TS]

  album liked the album art went away it's [TS]

  like well I got these long boxes so I [TS]

  guess it's all I and then those why [TS]

  don't wait to well I for one am happy [TS]

  that that you've discovered that [TS]

  sometimes I say things that are not [TS]

  completely insane turns out I know it's [TS]

  weird but it does happen [TS]

  well you it wasn't sane when you said it [TS]

  sounded better that was definitely [TS]

  insane it does not sound well I'm [TS]

  excited I applaud Tiff's purchase for [TS]

  you I applaud you realizing that [TS]

  something I've known for most of my life [TS]

  and older people older than us have [TS]

  known for their entire lives basically [TS]

  that hey it's not so bad and you know [TS]

  what in the grand scheme of things as a [TS]

  man who likes wristwatches based out of [TS]

  1812 I'm not entirely surprised that you [TS]

  like an audio playback system that is [TS]

  also based from out of 1812 so as time [TS]

  goes on and as you get older so does [TS]

  your techno do your technical [TS]

  technological preferences and so this is [TS]

  just the next step in the way you have a [TS]

  beard now I mean you just need that [TS]

  strand you in the beard I mean you're [TS]

  you're really getting clear you need [TS]

  flannel and skinny jeans and you'll be [TS]

  full hipster yeah man I'm not actually [TS]

  skinny though that's the problem does [TS]

  that matter [TS]

  I'm saying you're trying to recapture [TS]

  your youth you're not actually in your [TS]

  youth oh that is a good gift though it's [TS]

  a press shift god damn it Sean [TS]

  a press shift god damn it Sean [TS]

  so we should probably catch everyone up [TS]

  in case they weren't aware Aaron did in [TS]

  fact have our baby early Thursday [TS]

  morning so for those of you who may have [TS]

  heard the last episode you may recall [TS]

  that that was that was recorded Tuesday [TS]

  night and I didn't really want to get [TS]

  into it during the show but Aaron Aaron [TS]

  was actually starting to have [TS]

  contractions during the show like it was [TS]

  shortly before the show that we looked [TS]

  at each other and said oh yeah this is [TS]

  probably yet so we we went into the OB [TS]

  the following morning Wednesday morning [TS]

  and the OB had said Oh she'll definitely [TS]

  Aaron will definitely be done by evening [TS]

  time and as we got closer and closer to [TS]

  the evening time Oh it'll be definitely [TS]

  done by midnight and as we got closer [TS]

  and closer to midnight Oh it'll be [TS]

  definitely done any second now and sure [TS]

  enough that a little after 3:00 in the [TS]

  morning Aaron blessed our family with a [TS]

  little girl whose name is Mikayla [TS]

  Charlotte and and we are overjoyed and [TS]

  very tired exactly the normal response [TS]

  for having a newborn oh and I started to [TS]

  say earlier and then I got myself [TS]

  sidetracked we did what appears to be [TS]

  the inverse of the siracusa family [TS]

  approach because our first child was or [TS]

  at least my hazy memory of Declan was [TS]

  reasonably easy in the grand scheme of [TS]

  things like any child is a royal pain in [TS]

  the tuchus but nonetheless Declan was [TS]

  reasonably easy [TS]

  whereas Mikayla is starting out anyway [TS]

  considerably more challenging and it may [TS]

  just be that my memory which is already [TS]

  bad in general has just blocked the new [TS]

  baby phase from my mind but hoo boy this [TS]

  is something else and if I recall [TS]

  correctly John you said that that your [TS]

  son was what did you call him I was [TS]

  asking Aaron necessarily like a scream a [TS]

  pillar or something like that yeah [TS]

  there's one of his many delightful names [TS]

  he basically screamed for the first [TS]

  several months of his life continuously [TS]

  yet you somehow decided to have a second [TS]

  child which you know like the only thing [TS]

  that he kept this weed out was like what [TS]

  if the next one is worse like is that [TS]

  impossible could be worse like literal [TS]

  fire coming from the baby I don't know [TS]

  it could be yeah yeah Alex was was [TS]

  inconsolable [TS]

  nothing consoled him in any way you know [TS]

  rocking walking burping feeding and he [TS]

  refused to eat okay so you're worse off [TS]

  than we are because the one the one [TS]

  thing that we do have going for us is [TS]

  that if Mikael is attached to Aaron [TS]

  everyone is happy well except Aaron but [TS]

  everyone is happy and I say except Aaron [TS]

  only because as it turns out which I [TS]

  didn't know until we had a kid [TS]

  breastfeeding not fun not easy who knew [TS]

  and so Aaron is you know extremely happy [TS]

  to be able to do it don't get me wrong [TS]

  but it is not an intensely pleasurable [TS]

  experience for Aaron dev this like leech [TS]

  latched on to her all the time I mean it [TS]

  can be depending but like but yeah [TS]

  there's definitely a learning curve that [TS]

  most people don't think about and one of [TS]

  the extra difficulties with Alex was [TS]

  because it was our first we didn't have [TS]

  like the experience to know that this is [TS]

  a thing we could successfully do like [TS]

  you know Aaron had a journal I was like [TS]

  I'm capable of this like it's a pain and [TS]

  it's annoying and lots of things can go [TS]

  wrong and you know be a bother and be [TS]

  painful and things you know whatever but [TS]

  she can do it but Alex it was like look [TS]

  or you know can can we accomplish this [TS]

  well why does our child refuse to to [TS]

  feed why is he just screaming at me like [TS]

  surely this child is hungry but no it's [TS]

  only hungry for screaming oh he's hungry [TS]

  for more so it wasn't yet Michaela isn't [TS]

  as bad as Alex in that regard this is a [TS]

  lot of complaining which is truly an [TS]

  utterly unfair you just hit me at a [TS]

  tired moment the reality of the [TS]

  situation is and I'm being serious is [TS]

  that if I take a step back we have been [TS]

  lucky enough through the miracle of [TS]

  science did I say that with no hyperbole [TS]

  intended we have been lucky enough [TS]

  through the miracle science to have two [TS]

  kids that that nature by itself wouldn't [TS]

  let us have and that is really [TS]

  tremendous and we're deeply deeply [TS]

  deeply lucky for it [TS]

  Aaron's labor was difficult every labor [TS]

  is difficult I'm not saying hers is more [TS]

  or less too [TS]

  cult than any other regardless big [TS]

  congratulations Casey you guys went [TS]

  through a lot on both fronts with both [TS]

  kids and we're really proud of you and [TS]

  big congratulations it's all smooth [TS]

  sailing for me so you have a newborn [TS]

  everything is in chaos you haven't slept [TS]

  at all [TS]

  you got a self-employment gig set up yet [TS]

  lining right up no I do not I have not [TS]

  even thought about it although because [TS]

  this is what I need to do with my time [TS]

  I'm working on a Mac app what sort of [TS]

  kind of I know it's the correct [TS]

  reversing clock Pro yes that's it that's [TS]

  exactly no I'm overcast you're like [TS]

  overcast Rumaki and by the way I'm [TS]

  billing you tomorrow um no I I yeah Adam [TS]

  trying a short short version of the [TS]

  story so I have a very esoteric and very [TS]

  weird photo management workflow that [TS]

  works for me I understand that it's [TS]

  complete garbage to everyone else on the [TS]

  planet but it works for me and the [TS]

  problem with that workflow is it's based [TS]

  on a bunch of Python that I basically [TS]

  understand but can't really create [TS]

  anymore like I can I'm not very good at [TS]

  writing Python I've done a smattering in [TS]

  my day but very very little and these [TS]

  scripts came from dr. Drang I've tweaked [TS]

  them ever so slightly in order to do [TS]

  what I need but they're almost entirely [TS]

  what drying had written so anyway so [TS]

  Apple and their infinite wisdom has [TS]

  decided to release new images new image [TS]

  codecs or formats whatever you want to [TS]

  call it with HEV C and a she I see hafe [TS]

  whatever I don't even care whatever I'm [TS]

  tired point is there's new things and [TS]

  those have ruined my workflow and so [TS]

  rather than trying to hack apart Drang [TS]

  script which is great like I'm not [TS]

  trying to say script is bad it's just [TS]

  it's it's a KC problem I don't really [TS]

  understand Python very well although I [TS]

  do approve of using free using white [TS]

  space as delimiters don't at me but [TS]

  anyway the point is I've decided to [TS]

  write a swift command line app in order [TS]

  to do basically the same thing which is [TS]

  to say look at a folder [TS]

  full of images and videos figure out [TS]

  what the date was that those images or [TS]

  videos were taken which could be as [TS]

  simple as the file creation date but [TS]

  often times does not rename them to a [TS]

  given format so in my case I prefer and [TS]

  this is one of the few cases where I [TS]

  like 8601 so my my preferred file format [TS]

  or my preferred file naming is 2017 or [TS]

  2018 - oh one - 17 space hour hour - [TS]

  minute minute - second second that's [TS]

  just the one I like if you don't like it [TS]

  that's fine [TS]

  this one is mine that's a reference Tron [TS]

  anyway point is the the script that [TS]

  Drang wrote does all of this for me but [TS]

  I decided I don't I don't like the way I [TS]

  hacked it up to work with live photos [TS]

  and trying to figure out what's the [TS]

  Associated movie with a particular image [TS]

  and so I'm just rewriting it as a swift [TS]

  command line app that'll do all this for [TS]

  me and in the span of just today I think [TS]

  I started it I feel like I'm about a [TS]

  third of the way through which means I'm [TS]

  actually about a tenth of the way [TS]

  through but that's better than nothing [TS]

  and that's exciting and I will probably [TS]

  either never release this or at most [TS]

  open source it so other people can laugh [TS]

  at how hacky this is because I'm not [TS]

  writing it for a job I'm writing it for [TS]

  me and hashtag Yolo but that's what I've [TS]

  been doing on and off when I've had a [TS]

  moment to breathe when I've not been [TS]

  entertaining Declan or keeping the [TS]

  screaming pillar from screaming I'll try [TS]

  to steal my screaming pill you gotta [TS]

  come up with a new name [TS]

  you had your peak you had your free [TS]

  birth name with sprig and sprout you [TS]

  gotta have a post birth name yeah yeah I [TS]

  thought Mikayla was getting names not [TS]

  anyway [TS]

  what so what else didn't follow up what [TS]

  we got here so there's another black [TS]

  desktop Mac I hear yeah this is one I [TS]

  did not know about why because it's [TS]

  Europe only so many things are Europe [TS]

  only I like this model of Mac this is [TS]

  like the I don't know what you would [TS]

  have called this case it's the sort of [TS]

  iMac looking all-in-one but the [TS]

  nice-looking one they made a lot of [TS]

  Mac's in this particular form back here [TS]

  but apparently one of them came in black [TS]

  in Europe so more cool stuff again I was [TS]

  also trying to find I look for the link [TS]

  for the second thing there was a story [TS]

  that went around a while ago about [TS]

  how Europe or some European countries or [TS]

  some sort of international standards [TS]

  body had some requirement about the [TS]

  specific color of computers I think the [TS]

  story was like here's why all computers [TS]

  used to be beige it's because of this [TS]

  like ISOs yeah yeah yeah and I couldn't [TS]

  for the life of me find the link so if [TS]

  anyone knows it's an adjustment put in [TS]

  the show notes but anyway the important [TS]

  part of that story other than [TS]

  necessarily you know sensational [TS]

  headline was that to comply with this [TS]

  apparently Apple had to create a bunch [TS]

  of power books whose keyboards were [TS]

  greyish and it looked just awful because [TS]

  power books were all kind of like dark [TS]

  grey or black and they had keyboards [TS]

  that either matched or complemented that [TS]

  except for this they would make them fur [TS]

  I think was just Germany but maybe it [TS]

  was other European countries they'd make [TS]

  a nice sleek black power book and put it [TS]

  like a light grey keyboard and it was [TS]

  gross so kudos for Europe for having [TS]

  this black power mike 5500 and whatever [TS]

  the opposite of kudos is for making [TS]

  Apple make their computers ugly for you [TS]

  cheers and cheers John cheers and jeers [TS]

  yeah what's the opposite of kudos though [TS]

  cheers and jeers works kudos and dukey's [TS]

  all right moving on so tell me about the [TS]

  Peak elk about screen and how it is as [TS]

  quoting and I am now quoting from the [TS]

  show notes the refere of fans yeah so [TS]

  Marcos my ti Mac Pro was recently [TS]

  purchased by James Thomson creator of [TS]

  peacock the an iMac Pro configured like [TS]

  mine not like my actual one I didn't [TS]

  sell mine to him yes yes and peacock has [TS]

  been around for many many years it's a [TS]

  calculator application and it was able [TS]

  to run his fans at full blast [TS]

  how can a calculator run my Mac both [TS]

  pros fans at full blast well if you [TS]

  haven't been keeping up with P calc and [TS]

  you really shouldn't be there is an [TS]

  interesting feature hidden in the about [TS]

  screen that starts to make more sense [TS]

  when you understand that it's wrecking [TS]

  the fans so I don't want to spoil it for [TS]

  you but it does other things as they say [TS]

  on Seinfeld [TS]

  we were sponsored this week by hello [TS]

  buckwheat pillows go to hollow pillow [TS]

  comm slash ATP to learn more and sleep [TS]

  on one for 60 nights risk free have you [TS]

  ever tried a buckwheat pillow they are [TS]

  totally different than the [TS]

  regular like fluffy soft pillows that [TS]

  most of us are used to it's kind of like [TS]

  a beanbag in like texture and [TS]

  consistency and it's filled with [TS]

  buckwheat holes so it doesn't like [TS]

  spring back the way a foam pillow does [TS]

  and it doesn't make your face all hot [TS]

  and sweaty all night it's filled with [TS]

  these lightweight buckwheat holes so it [TS]

  really does kind of move and you can set [TS]

  it like a bean bag you can kind of like [TS]

  push it up to give yourself a lot of [TS]

  support in one area or you can flatten [TS]

  it out to give your you can change [TS]

  throughout the night and it's really you [TS]

  can totally adjust how you see fit [TS]

  because it is really just this nice [TS]

  wonderful organic cotton case made right [TS]

  here in the USA [TS]

  filled with buckwheat holes that were [TS]

  also made and grown and milled right [TS]

  here in the USA so it's a nice high [TS]

  quality materials but in the end of the [TS]

  day it's kind of just a big bean bag and [TS]

  so this is really flexible for whatever [TS]

  however you want to support your head [TS]

  and neck and this is really ends up [TS]

  being a lot better than traditional [TS]

  pillows in a lot of times and for a lot [TS]

  of people you know they find these they [TS]

  find these way more comfortable and a [TS]

  lot of times especially if you're a hot [TS]

  sleeper or if you could if you tend to [TS]

  fold your pillow in half or stack two [TS]

  pillows try to get enough support give [TS]

  hollow pillows a try you know these are [TS]

  not some kind of new totally crazy thing [TS]

  they've been used in Japan for centuries [TS]

  they remain very popular to this day you [TS]

  might even also see them on the pillow [TS]

  menu of fancy hotels buckwheat is really [TS]

  a nice natural way to sleep so hullo [TS]

  check it out today you can try it for 60 [TS]

  nights if it isn't for you after 60 [TS]

  nights they send it back they give you a [TS]

  full refund [TS]

  go to hollow pillow comm slash ATP to [TS]

  see for yourself if you get more than [TS]

  one you can get a discount of twenty [TS]

  dollars per pillow depending on the size [TS]

  and you get fast free shipping on every [TS]

  order once again go to hollow pillow [TS]

  comm slash ATP and try a wonderful [TS]

  buckwheat pillow for 69 - risk-free [TS]

  thank you so much to holo for sponsoring [TS]

  our show so this is an older story about [TS]

  people announcing arms windows pcs is [TS]

  kind of Microsoft's second run at [TS]

  selling you hard arm hardware that runs [TS]

  Windows remember was at Windows RT was [TS]

  the first one they were gonna sell like [TS]

  x86 versions of I think it was their [TS]

  surface stuff or whatever and also arm [TS]

  versions with [TS]

  special version of Windows that runs on [TS]

  it they did they actually did it yeah no [TS]

  one bought them but they did it and it [TS]

  was it just wasn't that popular a lot of [TS]

  people speculated because it's like well [TS]

  it's all well and good and it runs [TS]

  Windows and it has some advantages but [TS]

  it was a while ago arm pcs weren't as [TS]

  powerful as they are now and the main [TS]

  thing is like well I can't run office or [TS]

  office I think they ported office but [TS]

  like all the software that runs on [TS]

  Windows unless the developers recompile [TS]

  for arm I can't run it so their second [TS]

  run at this is cleaner without a special [TS]

  you know without it being like Windows [TS]

  you know suffix type thing is just [TS]

  Windows 10 for arm they have an emulator [TS]

  that will run x86 software so everyone [TS]

  doesn't have to part like they're doing [TS]

  a better job of like you know supporting [TS]

  a second architectures still remains to [TS]

  be seen whether it will succeed for them [TS]

  because I really think well you know I [TS]

  don't know the only examples I have that [TS]

  I'm knowledgeable about are the many [TS]

  transitions Apple has made to different [TS]

  CPU architectures and in all cases Apple [TS]

  has made a transition from one thing to [TS]

  another it has not tried to sustain an [TS]

  ongoing basis two things at the same [TS]

  time so I'm not sure what when Microsoft [TS]

  7-game hears but anyway I'm not not [TS]

  really interested in Microsoft's ongoing [TS]

  strategy to find ways to sell people [TS]

  more copies of Windows and making [TS]

  interesting Hardware mostly interested [TS]

  in this because of the consumer [TS]

  experience that is offered by these [TS]

  various arm pcs these are all laptops [TS]

  obviously or portable things and a lot [TS]

  of these products offer to the customer [TS]

  statistics like 20 hours of battery life [TS]

  and one one reviewer said that he has [TS]

  been using it for five days without [TS]

  charging the battery this was you know [TS]

  an ARM based PC was testing and most of [TS]

  these things come with LTE you know the [TS]

  modern the slightly more modern than [TS]

  December twistin as a CES happened [TS]

  recently which Ivan Boesky do my best to [TS]

  ignore plus or minus the new televisions [TS]

  but apparently at CES people who were [TS]

  there were saying you know you can't [TS]

  throw a rock without hang a laptop that [TS]

  has LTE so this combines [TS]

  two new ways for our Marco to reiterate [TS]

  old complaints about Apple laptops one I [TS]

  realize doesn't seem to be that great [TS]

  and two they don't have LTE and I have [TS]

  to think this is kind of one of those if [TS]

  you know again if Microsoft is [TS]

  successful with these things like maybe [TS]

  they find a way to sell them the [TS]

  emulator works well enough to make [TS]

  people consider them but like it's not [TS]

  like they get a little bit more battery [TS]

  life than like a MacBook adorable [TS]

  because 20 hours is a little is enough [TS]

  more than five or six hours that it's in [TS]

  a different ballpark it changes how you [TS]

  would use this thing if you could buy an [TS]

  Apple laptop there was MacBook adorably [TS]

  ish you know form factor with LTE they [TS]

  got 20 hours of battery life people [TS]

  would flip their lid right and so the [TS]

  question is why can't we buy that the [TS]

  LTE question we've talked about many [TS]

  times in the past seems like that is [TS]

  within Apple's grasps to do that but so [TS]

  far they haven't and the arm thing we've [TS]

  also talked about in the past but this [TS]

  is another scenario kind of like the [TS]

  Microsoft Surface studio and various [TS]

  other things that Microsoft does where I [TS]

  look at it and I think Microsoft is has [TS]

  better Hardware ideas than Apple and [TS]

  it's merely thwarted by the fact that [TS]

  their platform is not as successful and [TS]

  I have lots of other problems that are [TS]

  you know so you could say well you know [TS]

  you kept saying in Microsoft server [TS]

  studio is such a big deal but it's not [TS]

  really setting the world on fire yes [TS]

  they have other problems like you don't [TS]

  win just because you have interesting [TS]

  hardware but it pains me to see [TS]

  Microsoft being more innovative and it's [TS]

  hardware when I think if Apple just did [TS]

  those same things but also stayed good [TS]

  at all the things that it's good at and [TS]

  it's much more you know sort of popular [TS]

  on the upswing platform I think we would [TS]

  all all love products like that and I'm [TS]

  not saying it's time for Apple to go to [TS]

  arm or whatever I'm just saying the [TS]

  longer Apple waits the more its laptops [TS]

  seem like they are I don't know I'm not [TS]

  gonna say like from another age but [TS]

  going in a different direction than [TS]

  everybody else I can't think of any [TS]

  person who you know who is a current [TS]

  MacBook adorable owner this is that the [TS]

  12-inch MacBook with one little board on [TS]

  the side of it also known as the MacBook [TS]

  one and saying hey you like that and [TS]

  everything but what if I gave you the [TS]

  same thing and it had to run some of [TS]

  your existing software and emulation but [TS]

  you had 20 hours of battery life [TS]

  LT I think a lot of people would be [TS]

  willing to give that a try I know I [TS]

  would [TS]

  oh absolutely I was just thinking [TS]

  earlier today that I love my my adorable [TS]

  I freaking love this thing but I was [TS]

  also thinking I would kill everyone I [TS]

  knew for a second port but that's a [TS]

  different issue [TS]

  um I do love this thing no I really and [TS]

  truly and honestly do it is not [TS]

  exceptionally fast it is only one port [TS]

  which is which is very frustrating from [TS]

  time to time not always but from time to [TS]

  time but I love this computer and if you [TS]

  told me that I could get two times the [TS]

  battery life not to say that I have a [TS]

  problem with the battery life but if you [TS]

  said hey charging once a day isn't even [TS]

  necessary charge once a weekend and or [TS]

  you said oh and by the way you can have [TS]

  the internet anywhere [TS]

  oh my word I would pay twice as much as [TS]

  I paid for this thing I think I paid [TS]

  like two or three thousand dollars for [TS]

  this thing whatever it was it was not [TS]

  insignificant given that it's the [TS]

  tiniest laptop that Happel sells and I [TS]

  would do anything just like John was [TS]

  saying I would do anything to have that [TS]

  this phantom this phantom laptop with [TS]

  you know twice the battery life in LTE I [TS]

  don't care if it has an arm or not [TS]

  that's that to me is mostly irrelevant [TS]

  like obviously it's an interesting [TS]

  conversation for us three nerds but as a [TS]

  consumer I don't care if it has an arm [TS]

  or not I just want it to last forever [TS]

  which it sort of does now and have LT [TS]

  would be tremendous yes I understand you [TS]

  can tether I get that but to me I'd [TS]

  prefer to have it on board if I could so [TS]

  the arm factor is you know yeah it's [TS]

  like if you put X a six and I wouldn't [TS]

  get twenty hours back like that's that [TS]

  that's the contention of total arm right [TS]

  and it starts to be ever more plausible [TS]

  when you think about how like the iPhone [TS]

  benchmarks against the adorable in [TS]

  single and multi-threaded like the [TS]

  modern iPhone and then you compare the [TS]

  size of the battery in the iPhone ten to [TS]

  the size of the battery in the adorable [TS]

  I granted the adorable has a massive [TS]

  screen on it like it's not apples to [TS]

  apples it's not a hundred percent clear [TS]

  to me that oh just magically replace the [TS]

  CPU with arm you get twenty hours of [TS]

  battery life but you know like aside [TS]

  from consumer perspective they don't [TS]

  know or care [TS]

  what hardware is inside these except as [TS]

  it might impact their software [TS]

  compatibility experience that's where [TS]

  the emulator comes in and maybe that [TS]

  hurts the battery life but either way if [TS]

  they treat this as a transition and go [TS]

  all the way this is an experience that [TS]

  Apple currently can't compete against is [TS]

  very far from competing against and the [TS]

  other angular we didn't get to hear is [TS]

  the sort of a teacher angle where if you [TS]

  were to go to the story that will link [TS]

  in the show notes from our second again [TS]

  look at these products you would say but [TS]

  wait a second that's not a MacBook [TS]

  adorable that's an iPad with the [TS]

  keyboard that's like a Windows 10 [TS]

  convertible bond remember Windows has [TS]

  the one OS strategy that handles [TS]

  touching blah blah blah and Apple [TS]

  doesn't and that brings us into a second [TS]

  conversation that I think I had probably [TS]

  around December whenever I was an [TS]

  upgrade with Jason's now talking about [TS]

  iOS laptops and since then or maybe [TS]

  before that I remember Jason is written [TS]

  a couple of articles about it [TS]

  the teachers talked about it forever and [TS]

  it's come up again and so you know maybe [TS]

  the answer isn't in adorable 20 hours of [TS]

  battery life maybe the answer is an iOS [TS]

  laptop which is another thing that [TS]

  people are climbing for and as I said an [TS]

  upgrade Apple should totally make one [TS]

  because it is a known proven form factor [TS]

  and some people really like iOS and I [TS]

  can see you getting 20 hours of battery [TS]

  life from an iOS laptop so if you're not [TS]

  gonna do it with the actual adorable to [TS]

  my case you happen do the iOS laptop [TS]

  thing I think the iOS type of thing is [TS]

  is a thing that they should do I don't [TS]

  know how good end up being but I know a [TS]

  lot of people who would buy them I would [TS]

  probably buy one i I've had ever since [TS]

  the 9.7 Pro came out I've used I have [TS]

  dramatically increased my iPad usage [TS]

  because I got it with the smart Keyboard [TS]

  and the smart keyboard cover it [TS]

  transforms an iPad for a lot of people [TS]

  and I'm one of them and I'm I know Matt [TS]

  the only woman it and it's pretty much [TS]

  always in it I I never take it out of [TS]

  that cover I do occasionally like if I'm [TS]

  gonna be sitting on the couch for a [TS]

  while I will occasionally fold the [TS]

  keyboard behind it but I'm not even [TS]

  detaching it it's I consider that [TS]

  keyboard part of my iPad so if we had [TS]

  basically what tablet PCs offered like [TS]

  15 years ago [TS]

  which was the convertible form factor [TS]

  where it looked like a laptop except the [TS]

  hinge you could rotate the screen [TS]

  like all the way around and then flip it [TS]

  back to fold it back on itself [TS]

  you know PC makers still make laptops [TS]

  like this like this is still a thing you [TS]

  can get that some version of that as an [TS]

  iPad that had a permanently attached [TS]

  keyboard that was a really good keyboard [TS]

  that and then the whole thing could be [TS]

  shaped and weighted the way a laptop is [TS]

  shaped and waited and had a lot of [TS]

  benefits there that would be an amazing [TS]

  device for a lot of people and this is [TS]

  not to say that all iPads should become [TS]

  laptops obviously that's not true [TS]

  but what we've seen with the the like [TS]

  stopping the fall of iPad sales and [TS]

  starting to have some growth again in [TS]

  the last you know few quarters I think [TS]

  that's directly attributable to two big [TS]

  changes in the iPad line number one that [TS]

  awesome new cheap 329 iPad that's a big [TS]

  thing and then number two the iPad pro [TS]

  finally giving a lot of high-end and [TS]

  business users what they've been begging [TS]

  for for the iPad since day one and like [TS]

  I made this tweet abettor that was kind [TS]

  of you know quick on this point but it's [TS]

  like the history of the iPad has has [TS]

  been like you know Apple said Apple [TS]

  tries something they say we don't we [TS]

  don't need legacy thing X Y or Z and [TS]

  then customers like I don't know III [TS]

  think you do need that and apples not [TS]

  trust us you don't need it and sometimes [TS]

  they're right a lot and that's why I [TS]

  think they they make that bet so often [TS]

  and the and they're so stubborn on its [TS]

  for so long most of the time because a [TS]

  lot of times they are right about that [TS]

  but sometimes they're not and like you [TS]

  know if when you have like a pretty [TS]

  decent sized portion of your customer [TS]

  base like hacking keyboards onto iPads [TS]

  in weird ways in these like you know [TS]

  crappy like cases and brackets and [TS]

  things eventually you're like okay well [TS]

  let's actually just make the iPad do [TS]

  this well and we will we will make the [TS]

  iPad support a better the same way like [TS]

  the iPad one didn't have any support in [TS]

  the hardware for a case and that's where [TS]

  the iPad one case was that horrible like [TS]

  vinyl pocket thing that was a disaster [TS]

  because the like there was no good way [TS]

  to a tat to attach a case to an iPad [TS]

  the ipad2 they realize oh everyone is [TS]

  attaching cases to this so we'll build [TS]

  in the magnets to have this you know [TS]

  magnet connector on the side and that [TS]

  that can support the case over time you [TS]

  know these needs expand eventually we [TS]

  get where we are with the iPad pro now [TS]

  where we have the smart connector we [TS]

  have a nice easy way to attach keyboards [TS]

  that dealing with Bluetooth or batteries [TS]

  or anything and an apple makes this nice [TS]

  one it really hasn't panned out that [TS]

  much in the in the sense that nobody [TS]

  else really makes anything for the smart [TS]

  connector but Apple does at least and so [TS]

  I feel like going towards this like you [TS]

  know clamshell iPad option or this [TS]

  convertible iPad option as kind of a [TS]

  half laptop that is a perfectly valid [TS]

  place for the iPad line to go not all of [TS]

  them but for that to be an option they [TS]

  already sell it in like four different [TS]

  sizes it would you know people are [TS]

  always like will they only want to ever [TS]

  make one and they they don't they want [TS]

  to minimize SKUs like no that's not true [TS]

  anymore like that's that's that's not [TS]

  has not been true for a long time for [TS]

  most Apple product lines they're fine [TS]

  making additional models if it expands [TS]

  the market and so I think this would [TS]

  expand the market by enough to make it [TS]

  work the additional cost of having it so [TS]

  that aside for a minute let me just rant [TS]

  about LTE for one more time this will be [TS]

  quick there we don't have to think about [TS]

  why Apple might or might not want to put [TS]

  LTE in Mac laptops we don't have to this [TS]

  does not have to be theoretical because [TS]

  PC laptops have offered LTE built-in as [TS]

  an option for over a decade it's not [TS]

  theoretical at all if we can see why [TS]

  people want we can see that people buy [TS]

  it we can see the good and bad that [TS]

  comes from it we can see how it can be [TS]

  managed and sold all of this has been [TS]

  shown by the PC world for over a decade [TS]

  the only good reason they might have [TS]

  some bad reasons but the only good [TS]

  reason why I don't think Apple has LTE [TS]

  in max is because Mac hardware has spent [TS]

  so much of the last few years especially [TS]

  but you know honestly a lot of the time [TS]

  since iOS came out mac harbor has spent [TS]

  so much of this time in neglect and in [TS]

  seemingly the entire platform has seemed [TS]

  to be in maintenance mode in a lot of [TS]

  ways [TS]

  and we see signs of this maybe not being [TS]

  true anymore with things like the iMac [TS]

  Pro where this is like you know this [TS]

  awesome computer or lots of custom [TS]

  engineering and everything so you know [TS]

  maybe we're coming out of this time but [TS]

  there is no question in my mind that [TS]

  there is no good reason why we can't [TS]

  have LTE as an option in MacBooks there [TS]

  are only bad reasons and if Apple wanted [TS]

  to make it happen if they cared to make [TS]

  that happen in the Mac line if they [TS]

  thought that was a thing that was worth [TS]

  their time they could do it it would be [TS]

  totally fine it Mac OS has had support [TS]

  for distinguishing cellular connections [TS]

  on network API requests since I think [TS]

  mountain lion or something it's it's [TS]

  been there for a while now so the [TS]

  software support is there there are apps [TS]

  like Trip mode if you really need to [TS]

  watch it more than that but you know [TS]

  these are all solved problems on the [TS]

  software side the hardware side is okay [TS]

  is it a cost issue charge more for it [TS]

  it's a cost issue on the iPads too you [TS]

  can get $1,000 iPad pro and then you can [TS]

  add an LTE for LTE to it for like 150 [TS]

  bucks like that's it okay whatever you [TS]

  need to charge charge it okay like what [TS]

  we will bear that as the market like [TS]

  people want this yes you can tether as [TS]

  you mentioned earlier Casey [TS]

  but tethering sucks it's not always on [TS]

  your phone isn't always with you you're [TS]

  draining two batteries and instead of [TS]

  one like that sucks [TS]

  nobody wants that yes you have to have [TS]

  another plan for the device [TS]

  but these days we have plans for our [TS]

  watches now for God's sake plans for [TS]

  additional devices have become easier [TS]

  and easier over time and cheaper and [TS]

  cheaper over time there are so many [TS]

  people who would buy a MacBook Pro or [TS]

  MacBook whatever I don't care [TS]

  buy some Apple laptop running Mac OS I [TS]

  don't care what it's called they would [TS]

  buy that with an LT option for an extra [TS]

  I don't know 200 bucks and would gladly [TS]

  pay an extra 20 to 40 dollars a month to [TS]

  have that on a cellular plan this is not [TS]

  theoretical the entire PC world has done [TS]

  this for a decade we know this we see [TS]

  this we know it can be done Apple for [TS]

  God's sake it's way past time just do it [TS]

  so in that category of things the Apple [TS]

  you know sees other people do [TS]

  we don't need to do that one very minor [TS]

  one oh I don't know I don't think it's [TS]

  that minor because I continue to be [TS]

  annoyed by it despite the fact that I'm [TS]

  not really in the market for this thing [TS]

  take a look at the picture at the top of [TS]

  that our technical article about the [TS]

  Windows 10 pcs and you know so this is a [TS]

  great example of a convertible iPad ish [TS]

  type thing and it's got an OS on it that [TS]

  runs through desktop apps but you can [TS]

  also touch it and it's got a keyboard [TS]

  and it's got a little kickstand this is [TS]

  actually a less less laptop more smart [TS]

  key there's a little loop where you can [TS]

  store your pen look at that a it's got a [TS]

  pen which is the earlier category of [TS]

  things Apple didn't till I realized yeah [TS]

  but B guess what it has a place for you [TS]

  to put the pen that you're going to use [TS]

  with your tablet E and there are a [TS]

  million third-party ways to do that but [TS]

  I'm not entirely sure what Apple expects [TS]

  people to do like they expect people to [TS]

  put it behind their ear like you know a [TS]

  carpenter or something by the way the [TS]

  third-party ways all suck I've tried [TS]

  many of them they're all terrible right [TS]

  I just saw one today of like another one [TS]

  of these things likely they've like a [TS]

  case with a big long stick that [TS]

  magnetically attached to the smart cover [TS]

  or whatever it's like you know it's [TS]

  almost like we had it better in the palm [TS]

  days where all this devices came with a [TS]

  little slot where you put that tiny [TS]

  little stinky plastics house help the [TS]

  Newton had slots for you to slide a [TS]

  stylus into that a collapsible one where [TS]

  it went in sort of horizontally and then [TS]

  in the message pad 110 it went in [TS]

  vertically like if you're you know they [TS]

  sell a stylus now a pretty good one and [TS]

  people like it and the people who like [TS]

  it want to use it with their iPad [TS]

  because as far as I'm aware you can't [TS]

  use that spouse anywhere else can you [TS]

  like it doesn't work with anything [TS]

  except for an iPad so the only reason [TS]

  you own it is to use it with your iPad [TS]

  and I guess you just carry the pencil on [TS]

  one hand and the iPad and the other it's [TS]

  just this seems like a huge oversight [TS]

  and so my tiny tiny miniature wishlist [TS]

  things that Apple should do obviously [TS]

  LTE is bigger and you know iOS laptops [TS]

  is bigger but like if we can't get [TS]

  either one of those things Apple [TS]

  give us an officially supported place to [TS]

  put the Apple pencil so you can carry [TS]

  both it and the iPad that it goes with [TS]

  together in some way where there is a [TS]

  reasonable chance that they won't [TS]

  immediately detaching you loser [TS]

  yeah there's also I mean I honestly I [TS]

  think the pencil could use a lot more [TS]

  consideration than that but maybe that's [TS]

  for another show yeah but anyway the [TS]

  Microsoft obviously has been on that [TS]

  page for a long time is there sort of a [TS]

  kitchen sink thing oh it's a laptop it's [TS]

  a tablet it's you can draw on that you [TS]

  can touch the screen it's got a stylus [TS]

  you know it's got a he'll the surface [TS]

  book thing had that whatever that little [TS]

  cylinder thing that you stick on the [TS]

  screen and turn and do all knob yeah [TS]

  they're trying all sorts of stuff I'm [TS]

  just saying like where we've crossed the [TS]

  the stylus Rubicon here like we're all [TS]

  we're all in stylus land we just need [TS]

  some place to put it and I say I own one [TS]

  of these and you know our mine is it is [TS]

  on my nightstand next to my iPad and no [TS]

  it doesn't roll off because it's vaguely [TS]

  weighted and I have it on the inside set [TS]

  of the outside but it just annoys me [TS]

  like one of the reasons I never have my [TS]

  sows with my iPad is I don't have a way [TS]

  to attach it and all those third-party [TS]

  ways always just seemed a little bit I [TS]

  don't know inconvenient for me [TS]

  especially since I'm not like a super [TS]

  heavy stylus user but honestly if there [TS]

  should be there should be an Apple [TS]

  supportive way to do it please I just [TS]

  want my macbook adorable with LTE yes I [TS]

  would pay the extra fees for it if I [TS]

  really thought it was useful much as a [TS]

  watch you know I know is the adorable so [TS]

  much bigger than the watch and the [TS]

  watches are small money for a small [TS]

  thing why should I pay for that it's [TS]

  it's just it's sipping data [TS]

  who buys batteries if that's why Mac [TS]

  apps get more money because the screens [TS]

  are bigger yeah right well I I feel like [TS]

  we kind of got sidetracked though on the [TS]

  idea of arm like us yeah I know right do [TS]

  we think that this is realistic [TS]

  I feel like we went through this like [TS]

  six months ago or something like that [TS]

  and I don't remember what conclusion we [TS]

  came to it seems to me like if it wasn't [TS]

  for the fact that there's so many third [TS]

  parties that would need to get on board [TS]

  this train this would have maybe already [TS]

  happened at this point like it seems it [TS]

  seems like Apple would want to control [TS]

  the entire stack they're clear they're [TS]

  clearly very good at making arm CPUs [TS]

  there the arm CPUs they make are clearly [TS]

  very power efficient like in so many [TS]

  ways I'm slightly surprised they haven't [TS]

  dip their toes into this water although [TS]

  I agree with I think it was John that [TS]

  said earlier that they don't typically [TS]

  you know [TS]

  straddle two platforms they will they [TS]

  will just decide okay we're going from [TS]

  PowerPC to Intel or we're going from [TS]

  Intel to arm etc but I don't know I I [TS]

  feel like this I feel like this is an [TS]

  inevitability but remind me of this in [TS]

  like 15 years when we're still on you [TS]

  know Intel processors well they're [TS]

  playing chicken with that inevitability [TS]

  like so we all see it as an [TS]

  inevitability but it's you know the game [TS]

  of chicken is that inevitability of like [TS]

  look they've got a dorm like they're so [TS]

  good at doing armed cpus they're i'm [TS]

  cpus are getting better and better like [TS]

  isn't it only a matter of time the car [TS]

  racing in the other direction at that [TS]

  eventualities yeah but if they keep [TS]

  holding on eventually the Mac will just [TS]

  fade away on its own and we wanted to [TS]

  deal with it because iOS always been [TS]

  armed and so problem solved but it gets [TS]

  back to the Mac investment thing and you [TS]

  know in our past discussions like look [TS]

  if you really want to go armed on the [TS]

  Mac it's very difficult to support both [TS]

  for a long time which means you're kind [TS]

  of signing up to build like an 18 core [TS]

  ARM processor to compete with Zeon's if [TS]

  you're still gonna be in that market [TS]

  which as of last year Apple has [TS]

  decisively said yes we want to be in the [TS]

  market Marco's sitting in front of one [TS]

  right now so if you want to go arm on [TS]

  the Mac oh no it's not just yes great so [TS]

  we can take the phone CPU and throw it [TS]

  in a laptop and we're like oh but we're [TS]

  good to go there it's perfect fit what [TS]

  do you put in the iMac Pro and then you [TS]

  got the Thunderbolt issue it's like yeah [TS]

  we could solve all these problems you [TS]

  could totally do it if the Mac was a [TS]

  growing platform and it was the future [TS]

  of the company they would do that they [TS]

  would make arm CPUs with 18 cores in [TS]

  them they compete with Zeon's and they [TS]

  would figure out the Thunderbolt thing [TS]

  and they'd be fine but that's not where [TS]

  the Mac is right now and so it's like do [TS]

  we really want to put that much money [TS]

  into a platform that we sell so little [TS]

  of maybe if we just hold on long enough [TS]

  we won't have to worry about this [TS]

  problem then it will solve itself so [TS]

  that is the game of chicken I see on the [TS]

  arm CPUs like in the fantasy engineer [TS]

  world it seems like a no-brainer that [TS]

  Apple would do it because they're so [TS]

  good at it and surely they do a great [TS]

  job where they'd work out the tech [TS]

  issues but in the reality where you have [TS]

  to look at sales numbers and consider [TS]

  how much you're investing in yada yada [TS]

  yada [TS]

  it does not look like a sure bet you [TS]

  know clear clearly the right thing for [TS]

  Apple to do so you know every year like [TS]

  you smell the wind and me like this [TS]

  this deer farm and I suppose that the [TS]

  thing that could make it happen sooner [TS]

  rather than later or not at all is Apple [TS]

  could actually decide we're gonna do to [TS]

  a to CBO strategy we're not going to [TS]

  bother trying to compete with the Xeon [TS]

  but all these you know next year's set [TS]

  of arm assist amount of chips for [TS]

  iPhones and iPads could cover such a [TS]

  vast portion of their laptop line at [TS]

  this point right in terms of CPU power [TS]

  and and GPU power for that matter that [TS]

  they could sell more than half of their [TS]

  Mac's with arm CPUs without having to [TS]

  basically build the new chips we have [TS]

  building these anyway for the iPads and [TS]

  the iPhones repurpose them do all the [TS]

  work we have to do the u.s. voix arm on [TS]

  the Mac and you know the Mac Pro and the [TS]

  iMac Pro know a lot of the stuff you [TS]

  know we're not going to put that much [TS]

  money into arm two to build chips for [TS]

  those so those will stay with x86 and [TS]

  we'll just continue to ride this out [TS]

  with two CPUs that but so far Apple has [TS]

  never done that and I don't think that [TS]

  strategy is a good idea I think the [TS]

  strategy is commit and convert either go [TS]

  go big or go home we are sponsored this [TS]

  week by our X bar for 25% off your first [TS]

  order visit our X bar comm ATP and use [TS]

  code ATP at checkout our X bars are [TS]

  there's awesome little protein bars that [TS]

  you've been seeing everywhere and maybe [TS]

  hearing about another podcast where they [TS]

  say right on the label right on the [TS]

  front it says what the ingredients are [TS]

  and it's a really short list it'll say [TS]

  something like three egg whites two [TS]

  dates six almonds and no BS and that's [TS]

  really honestly what it is and it turns [TS]

  out these are great I've been I've been [TS]

  eating these things since before they [TS]

  became a sponsor I don't I'm not even [TS]

  sure they know that I've been eating [TS]

  them because they didn't they booked it [TS]

  through through our agent so I don't [TS]

  even know if they know that I like these [TS]

  so much but they're great I I've been [TS]

  eating them myself I love them as my [TS]

  like mid-afternoon snack when I'm hungry [TS]

  but it's not dinnertime yet I also use [TS]

  them like on long car rides I brought [TS]

  them on my last plane ride they're great [TS]

  if you if you need to like you know toss [TS]

  it in a backpack for like a bike ride or [TS]

  a hike or you know involving it before [TS]

  or after a workout and they're wonderful [TS]

  and it really is what it says three egg [TS]

  whites two days [TS]

  six almonds no BS like there's no crazy [TS]

  additives they have eleven delicious [TS]

  flavor varieties all of them are gluten [TS]

  free soy free and dairy free there is no [TS]

  added sugar this is a big problem with [TS]

  so many these little of these protein [TS]

  bars they're just packed full of sugar [TS]

  the only sweetness and this comes from [TS]

  those two dates and that's not that much [TS]

  sugar it's hardly any there's no [TS]

  artificial colors artificial flavors [TS]

  preservatives or fillers they use egg [TS]

  whites for the protein dates to bind it [TS]

  together nuts for texture it's wonderful [TS]

  they come in 11 different flavors as I [TS]

  said I honestly can't pick a favorite [TS]

  whenever I'm buying them I just buy one [TS]

  of everything they have a variety pack [TS]

  you can try that because I just like [TS]

  them all [TS]

  they're great so check it out today at [TS]

  our X bar comm slash ATP and use code [TS]

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  first order that's a great deal our X [TS]

  bar comm slash ATP code ATP for 25% of [TS]

  your first order thank you so much to [TS]

  our X bar for sponsoring our show Jon [TS]

  tell me about Windows 10 sets this was [TS]

  uh I've been keeping up with Windows 10 [TS]

  I have not actually ever run Windows 10 [TS]

  my windows stuff at work is Windows 8 or [TS]

  earlier I still retreat to the comfort [TS]

  of Windows 7 the relative comfort of [TS]

  Windows 7 for someone who's not a [TS]

  Windows user obviously although I bet [TS]

  Windows users are comfortable in Windows [TS]

  7 to like yeah that was last one that [TS]

  still seemed vaguely like Windows but [TS]

  when those eight screwed it all up [TS]

  some people like Windows 10 but anyway [TS]

  windows 10 sets I'm assuming this is [TS]

  official an official shipping feature [TS]

  but I can't really tell because it's [TS]

  just a YouTube video for all I know it's [TS]

  just a speculative thing but you know my [TS]

  love of window arranging and so to see [TS]

  any OS vendor coming up with new [TS]

  strategies for dealing with Windows is [TS]

  interesting to me now obviously the [TS]

  windows the windows windowing model is [TS]

  so different from the Mac and I like the [TS]

  Mac windowing model better but given the [TS]

  windows windowing model where everything [TS]

  it's his own damn window and it's it's [TS]

  own little taskbar item and its own [TS]

  independent entity and potentially also [TS]

  its own duplicate running instance of an [TS]

  application like is everything flies in [TS]

  the face of the Mac model but given that [TS]

  model on Windows where you got a lot of [TS]

  windows floating around many of which [TS]

  are actually independent instances of [TS]

  programs it's difficult to figure out [TS]

  how [TS]

  to come up with a sort of a system or to [TS]

  create any sort of hierarchy like on the [TS]

  Mac because you basically can't have you [TS]

  know you know technically you can but [TS]

  from a user's perspective you can only [TS]

  have one instances of an application [TS]

  running at once right so if you start [TS]

  Safari and it shows up in your dock what [TS]

  if I want to run a second instance of [TS]

  authority [TS]

  well you can't now obviously if you know [TS]

  what you're doing you can make that [TS]

  happen the regular users if they [TS]

  double-click Safari again in the finder [TS]

  it doesn't launch a second Safari on [TS]

  your dock if you click it again on your [TS]

  dock it doesn't launch a second Safari [TS]

  you've got so far and within Safari you [TS]

  have multiple Safari windows and then [TS]

  within windows you have multiple tabs [TS]

  that hierarchy on the Mac application is [TS]

  one level and then drill down one level [TS]

  each application can have zero or more [TS]

  windows that's the one fundamental [TS]

  aspect of Windows is not like that so if [TS]

  you don't have that hierarchy I mean [TS]

  Windows kind of had that hierarchy back [TS]

  in the day maybe you two windows victims [TS]

  can tell me about this do you remember [TS]

  the windowing model I think I think the [TS]

  visual studio did it at one point there [TS]

  was a name for that I used to know where [TS]

  you'd have a parent window a gnome di a [TS]

  an all child windows were inside the [TS]

  parent window called MDI multiple [TS]

  document interface yeah that was a [TS]

  terrible idea but anyway they're there [TS]

  you know there is still that hierarchy [TS]

  because you can launch one instance of [TS]

  ie and have multiple tabs and many [TS]

  applications you could launch one [TS]

  instance of the application and open [TS]

  multiple documents even though depending [TS]

  on the taskbar [TS]

  that's why Photoshop has always done and [TS]

  did various ways yeah because that [TS]

  started as a Mac app so this inherits so [TS]

  you have some flexibility to do but in [TS]

  general it's much more flat in Windows [TS]

  so Windows 10 sets let's it's kind of [TS]

  like when Apple added framework support [TS]

  for tabbed windows on the Mac where it [TS]

  was easy for a Mac application to say [TS]

  we're gonna support tabs that look and [TS]

  behave vaguely like Safari tabs so [TS]

  previously you'd have my document based [TS]

  application TextEdit you know you launch [TS]

  TextEdit and you open a bunch of new [TS]

  documents in each document is in a new [TS]

  window and with the framework support [TS]

  for tabbing it's like oh it's pretty [TS]

  easy for text said to say now I support [TS]

  tabs and you could take your to TextEdit [TS]

  windows and merge them together [TS]

  and now they're in one tab the window [TS]

  that kind of looks like a safari window [TS]

  a little Safari tab right they added [TS]

  that a couple years ago well windows 10 [TS]

  sets ads tab [TS]

  sort of to the window manager so that an [TS]

  OS level you can assemble Windows from [TS]

  multiple different applications into one [TS]

  tabbed mega window to make a set of [TS]

  documents so you've got a web browser [TS]

  window a text editor window your [TS]

  graphics application window all are our [TS]

  tabs within the same you know master [TS]

  window so there's not like it's seven [TS]

  PowerPoint documents [TS]

  it's a PowerPoint document and ie [TS]

  document like a Finder window whatever [TS]

  that like all the windows you know that [TS]

  a file system thing showing you know [TS]

  your disk explorer X is it even called [TS]

  that anymore who knows and that's their [TS]

  that's their way of organization so [TS]

  instead of just being a flat stew of [TS]

  Windows which is one of the many reasons [TS]

  that Windows you left a full screen [TS]

  because like look there is no hierarchy [TS]

  so just give each one no the entire [TS]

  screen and I will just furiously alt-tab [TS]

  between them and I'll feel efficient now [TS]

  then you have the ability to make sets [TS]

  of Windows based on whatever task you're [TS]

  doing kind of like I've talked about [TS]

  making sets of tabs in my web browser [TS]

  this is my like I'm shopping for a new [TS]

  you know screwdriver window and I have [TS]

  like seven tabs of different sites [TS]

  looking at screwdrivers right this could [TS]

  be I'm working on a project here's all [TS]

  the graphics from the project is my [TS]

  research window here's you know a text [TS]

  editor window here's a web preview of [TS]

  what I'm doing put them all together [TS]

  into one big set and then the cloud [TS]

  twist is oh and also Microsoft will [TS]

  cloud sync those sets so if you go over [TS]

  to another Windows 10 computer and log [TS]

  in is you you can recall that set and [TS]

  say what was i working on bring up that [TS]

  window set you know that from that thing [TS]

  I was working on and all those windows [TS]

  appear on your new computer all those [TS]

  tabs or whatever so I think that's very [TS]

  intriguing I would love both that [TS]

  statefulness and the ability to sort of [TS]

  mix and match windows in a task oriented [TS]

  way it doesn't work really with the Mac [TS]

  windowing model so I don't think Apple [TS]

  should look at this in adopted wholesale [TS]

  but I kind of excited by Windows itself [TS]

  taking another look at something as [TS]

  basic as window document and application [TS]

  management and trying to come up with a [TS]

  you know unlike I say it's novel because [TS]

  I'm sure 57 X Windows managers [TS]

  this exact same thing but I found [TS]

  interesting and there are parts of it I [TS]

  find attractive especially the cloud [TS]

  singing statefulness of course all the [TS]

  caveats apply does this require support [TS]

  from application vendors will the only [TS]

  person who supports to be Microsoft if [TS]

  you take a bunch of kardi one in his [TS]

  application and try to use it with this [TS]

  will they not behave correctly [TS]

  historically when Microsoft has had a [TS]

  harder time getting all its developers [TS]

  to adopt new technologies Apple has done [TS]

  better they're a little bit spotty in [TS]

  recent years especially with things like [TS]

  autosave and state restoration and stuff [TS]

  like that that kind of flew in the face [TS]

  of Mac orthodoxy and was sort of only [TS]

  half-heartedly implemented by some Mac [TS]

  applications but in general I think [TS]

  Apple has a better time in it so once [TS]

  again I'm in the position where I am [TS]

  forced to praise Microsoft and be proud [TS]

  of what they're doing and wish Apple not [TS]

  did the same things but innovated with a [TS]

  similar spirit like when's the last time [TS]

  a politico management in the Mac and had [TS]

  some bold new ideas like they they added [TS]

  like some vague slightly annoying [TS]

  snapping thing in like Sierra and then [TS]

  like the the you know the tiling thing [TS]

  was that Sierra - they've added a couple [TS]

  of minor features in half-hearted ways [TS]

  and in recent years but nothing that [TS]

  tries to not fundamentally rethink but [TS]

  add a dramatically new feature akin to [TS]

  like you know Mission Control or expose [TS]

  or whatever like in the early days of [TS]

  Mac OS 10 you know that's what they were [TS]

  doing they were saying you know we have [TS]

  a new idea of how you might want to [TS]

  manage Windows and we call it expose and [TS]

  later we'll rename it and make it even [TS]

  more confusing and then spaces like this [TS]

  is not a new idea but hey we think it's [TS]

  maybe worth bringing to the Mac and [TS]

  we'll refine it and try to make a [TS]

  different model I that I miss those days [TS]

  of windowing innovation yeah I mean this [TS]

  is like it this is just one more area [TS]

  where it feels like the Mac is in [TS]

  maintenance mode at one of these times [TS]

  one of these cool experiments by [TS]

  somebody else is going to take off like [TS]

  Microsoft is doing a lot of things [TS]

  they're trying a lot of things and [TS]

  they're they aren't all working but some [TS]

  of them are and some of them will and [TS]

  it's you know both in hardware and [TS]

  software with with you know with what [TS]

  trying over there and Apple is really [TS]

  not trying that much in on this level [TS]

  with the Mac the touch bar is probably [TS]

  the only thing that was on anywhere near [TS]

  this level that they tried and that was [TS]

  more of a hardware I know the [TS]

  implementation crosses everything but [TS]

  like that was more of a hardware feature [TS]

  than a software feature you know from [TS]

  the user point of view and it wasn't [TS]

  particularly well received and it's and [TS]

  I think you know I think history will [TS]

  judge it as a flop if the president [TS]

  hasn't at least but that doesn't mean [TS]

  they should not try anything else that [TS]

  just means the one thing they tried that [TS]

  was anywhere near this type of thing [TS]

  didn't work out but they need to keep [TS]

  trying because the PC industry is and [TS]

  you know we forget sometimes like quite [TS]

  how small percentage-wise the Mac has [TS]

  compared to PCs in market share and you [TS]

  know the Mac is much more influential [TS]

  compared to its market share of size [TS]

  than you would expect but if people are [TS]

  like on their work pcs and they're using [TS]

  all these things at work and they get [TS]

  used to something like this this sets [TS]

  feature then the Mac just looks bad by [TS]

  comparison for not having it you know [TS]

  and the more the more as time goes on [TS]

  the more Microsoft tries things you know [TS]

  some percentage of them will stick some [TS]

  some of them already have like [TS]

  touchscreen laptops like hidden we [TS]

  helped made fun of that Apple makes fun [TS]

  of that but the reality is people use [TS]

  them and like them that's fine and Apple [TS]

  doesn't do that and so when somebody who [TS]

  is used to being able to scroll the [TS]

  screen in the laptop occasionally with [TS]

  their finger or poke a link with their [TS]

  finger sometimes they go to a Mac and it [TS]

  doesn't work and that doesn't make Apple [TS]

  look like great product visionaries it [TS]

  makes the Mac look broken or outdated [TS]

  and over time the number of things that [TS]

  caused that feeling in new buyers is [TS]

  going to increase that's my concern with [TS]

  the Macs dating is that it a polemic [TS]

  kind of in maintenance mode for a lot of [TS]

  its you know for a lot of the platform [TS]

  and you might think oh well Apple is [TS]

  fine they're selling you know iPhones [TS]

  and iPads yeah that's fine but the rest [TS]

  of the industry that the Mac competes [TS]

  with is moving forward with or without [TS]

  Apple they are moving and if Apple is [TS]

  not even really putting in a strong [TS]

  effort to compete with them [TS]

  Mack isn't going to remain constant over [TS]

  time it's going to decline over time [TS]

  there it's going to start falling behind [TS]

  in big ways and I don't want that to [TS]

  happen to my favorite computing platform [TS]

  of all time I'm just tired of being sad [TS]

  man [TS]

  it's hard being sad hi I'm happy with [TS]

  this my my pro I'll tell you that but [TS]

  nothing to do with the software yeah [TS]

  like like the touch forest as Marco said [TS]

  is a reason to be happy because look [TS]

  that was a pretty big investment and a [TS]

  you know a pretty important dramatic [TS]

  clearly Mac only future doesn't seem to [TS]

  have worked out whatever bless exactly [TS]

  were asking for you know you got it you [TS]

  gotta try things right but I would say [TS]

  that the t2 in Marcos iMac Pro is [TS]

  another example of granted mostly [TS]

  hardware based but interesting [TS]

  innovation that you know it is its [TS]

  borrowing technology from iOS like it's [TS]

  building on other that's just smart [TS]

  business but they didn't have to do that [TS]

  they could have made a more traditional [TS]

  Xeon based PC and slapped it inside and [TS]

  I'm a case but they didn't they're they [TS]

  you know there's there's extra cost and [TS]

  expense involved in adapting that iOS [TS]

  hardware and software to the Mac and [TS]

  they did it and that's that's an [TS]

  exciting Avenue for innovation I think [TS]

  to make Mac's less like you know less [TS]

  like Apple branded hackintosh this and [TS]

  more like you can't you can't assemble [TS]

  this from parts you you know this has [TS]

  advantages over a PC that you would [TS]

  build in terms of you know performance [TS]

  power draw security all the areas that [TS]

  we expect Apple to innovate in which for [TS]

  many years even in the max heyday you [TS]

  know in the in the jobs you know PowerPC [TS]

  g3 g4 our when max were very exciting [TS]

  and we're you know the the bread and [TS]

  butter of the company those max inside [TS]

  were more conventionally like pcs than [TS]

  Markos I Mac Pro is they didn't have [TS]

  some weird custom ARM chip implementing [TS]

  secure boot they were more or less on [TS]

  the same you know was it uh EFI and [TS]

  later the all of Intel's security [TS]

  features like that but it wasn't like [TS]

  Apple was building these giant custom [TS]

  ships to do all of its like image [TS]

  processing from the camera and to run [TS]

  the SSD and to do a secure boot and [TS]

  stuff like that that I think is [TS]

  innovation it's not software innovation [TS]

  but it is innovation and investment in [TS]

  Maxo I'm heartened by the renewed [TS]

  interest and yeah we all would have [TS]

  liked the touch bar to maybe be more to [TS]

  our tastes you know maybe some people [TS]

  like but for the three of us it hasn't [TS]

  really set the world on fire so I guess [TS]

  I guess more of that more of that please [TS]

  and you know with a higher batting [TS]

  average well and I'm you know it seems [TS]

  like there's obviously a lot of [TS]

  different areas in which Apple is [TS]

  innovating or not innovating or moving [TS]

  forward or just in maintenance mode my [TS]

  main complaint about stagnation is in [TS]

  frequency of hardware updates number one [TS]

  and number two did the most bigger [TS]

  problem I think is the software platform [TS]

  you know it's it's very I think there's [TS]

  John I think there's a lot of parallels [TS]

  to be made to your you know Copeland [TS]

  2010 yeah to that article like you know [TS]

  the arguments you made back forever ago [TS]

  which is like you know at some point [TS]

  forgive me for trying to paraphrase your [TS]

  argument it's at some point you know [TS]

  they can't continue doing this forever [TS]

  like something has to change they have [TS]

  to there has to be a next generation [TS]

  version of this at some point and I [TS]

  don't know we we don't know we don't [TS]

  have enough insight into Apple to know [TS]

  like is there a next generation version [TS]

  of Mac OS that they're working on [TS]

  because you know we don't see any signs [TS]

  of that and obviously we probably [TS]

  wouldn't until it was much further along [TS]

  and almost ready to ship but like if [TS]

  there isn't that's a big problem that's [TS]

  a really big problem because what the up [TS]

  the OS we're using right now on the Mac [TS]

  is you know it's it's fine in a lot of [TS]

  ways it's world-class in a lot of ways [TS]

  but it's really ancient and creaky and [TS]

  has a lot of baggage and does a lot of [TS]

  things in really outdated ways that is [TS]

  catching up to it it you know it has [TS]

  been catching up to it for quite some [TS]

  time it's going to keep catching up to [TS]

  it more and more and for Apple to move [TS]

  the Mac forward they need to be [TS]

  investing heavily in it they need to be [TS]

  giving it its next generation operating [TS]

  system an x generation platform and so [TS]

  things like the touch bar and the t2 are [TS]

  awesome on the hardware side the iMac [TS]

  Pro is amazing I continue to be [TS]

  incredibly happy with it as a computer [TS]

  but Mac OS is starving for attention [TS]

  it is stagnating it is falling apart it [TS]

  is starving hi Sierra is [TS]

  many ways pathetic and scary in in how [TS]

  sloppy things were done with it how many [TS]

  bugs there still are in a lot of areas [TS]

  the security bugs are embarrassing I [TS]

  mean it's it's getting worse every [TS]

  release seems like it's getting worse [TS]

  Sierra was a terrible release also very [TS]

  unreliable lots of bugs lots of problems [TS]

  lots of subsystems and things that were [TS]

  seemingly rewritten for vague reasons [TS]

  and then we're worse and more buggy like [TS]

  this is increasing over time because [TS]

  they're not putting the resources into [TS]

  the OS that it needs to be stable and [TS]

  secure and to be moved forward that's my [TS]

  concern area it's not about the t2 in [TS]

  the touch bar it's that Mac OS itself is [TS]

  not being properly maintained and [TS]

  invested in and hopefully I'm wrong [TS]

  hopefully I'm totally wrong and they're [TS]

  working on our awesome new next [TS]

  generation you know OS 11 or whatever [TS]

  would be called it with me not that but [TS]

  you know hopefully I'm wrong about all [TS]

  this but we haven't seen no signs in [TS]

  that direction so we have no way to know [TS]

  if there's a next gen operating system I [TS]

  don't think it would be an extra in Mac [TS]

  or everything system it would be a next [TS]

  gen operating apple operating system [TS]

  that would span the range right because [TS]

  like what you're really talking about [TS]

  for an external operating systems and [TS]

  honestly I don't think Apple is at the [TS]

  k√∂ppen 2010 point just because like in [TS]

  the if you look at the the rate of [TS]

  important advancement in computing lots [TS]

  of really important sort of industry [TS]

  changing paradigm shifting stuff [TS]

  happened really early on in that [TS]

  beginning part going from very simple [TS]

  computers to more complicated ones and [TS]

  it just so happens that Apple's success [TS]

  with the Apple 2 in the Mac happened to [TS]

  hit right before all of the personal [TS]

  computers got on the memory protection [TS]

  and pre-emptive multitasking bandwagon [TS]

  so it was unfortunate timing that they [TS]

  were successful with a slightly older [TS]

  platform but there's there's nothing out [TS]

  there as clear-cut as like memory [TS]

  protection either have it or you don't [TS]

  and it's a pretty big innovation and if [TS]

  you are unfortunate enough to be [TS]

  massively successful with the platform [TS]

  that doesn't have it it's very hard to [TS]

  edit after the fact everyone else has it [TS]

  and it's not a minor thing now but don't [TS]

  worry there's no room for an extra [TS]

  hopper existing but I think Apple can [TS]

  get along with [TS]

  you know Mach BSD amalgam as they've [TS]

  shown they can bring that down to [TS]

  watches and all the way up to max so [TS]

  it's fairly flexible and it's pretty [TS]

  neat and they can piecemeal replace [TS]

  parts of it and improve it so it's still [TS]

  got life like that left in it but [TS]

  eventually you want a next generation [TS]

  operating system that next generation [TS]

  operating system is not next generation [TS]

  iOS and not a next generation Mac [TS]

  operation the next generation Apple [TS]

  operating system that will probably have [TS]

  to run on their self-driving cars and [TS]

  you're you know you're watching your [TS]

  glasses and your whatever like that's [TS]

  that's where they would go and I don't [TS]

  think it's pressing for them to do that [TS]

  now but they you know all their you know [TS]

  the car projects and any other weird [TS]

  things they've tried with glasses and [TS]

  rings and whatever those are avenues to [TS]

  experiment with different kernels [TS]

  real-time operating systems things [TS]

  optimized for neural nets which you know [TS]

  arguably their experiment on the phone [TS]

  with the whatever that what's the little [TS]

  thing the name the branding name they [TS]

  gave to the neural process or m/l know [TS]

  some part of the chip that was dead [TS]

  anything anyway I've heard lots of [TS]

  rumors of experimentation with different [TS]

  sort of kernels and you know sort of [TS]

  core OS designs and also anything [TS]

  they're doing with the car I've also [TS]

  heard rumors that that stack was [TS]

  potentially different from the bottom up [TS]

  than a lot of the existing ones one of [TS]

  those things go anywhere you know I [TS]

  guess I don't think it's pressing but if [TS]

  and when a next-generation Apple [TS]

  operating platform comes along I fully [TS]

  expect it to span the range of all their [TS]

  products and to finally and decisively [TS]

  the dichotomy between Mac and iOS which [TS]

  is say I don't think it is it is [TS]

  imminent or more much more likely to get [TS]

  something sooner as we talked about in a [TS]

  couple shows ago with the unified UI [TS]

  framework right that is a much more [TS]

  reasonable incremental step towards that [TS]

  that goal and you know right now like it [TS]

  could be argued that Apple currently has [TS]

  a unified low-level or s across all [TS]

  their products because under the covers [TS]

  it's all mock BSD Darwin [TS]

  however you want it like that's [TS]

  underneath all of them it's not like the [TS]

  watch as far as I'm aware is running a [TS]

  dramatically different operating system [TS]

  from the kernel all the way up then your [TS]

  Mac is like so there is a common [TS]

  foundational platform with various bits [TS]

  stripped down on it and obviously [TS]

  different architectures and different [TS]

  optimizations and stuff like that it's [TS]

  just that as you get up to the higher [TS]

  layer this you know historical somewhat [TS]

  artificial distinction appears oh this [TS]

  is a Mac Apple that's an iPad app no [TS]

  there they're totally different it [TS]

  looked kind of the same you I know but [TS]

  just their same core OS same grunt yeah [TS]

  I know but they're not it's not the same [TS]

  thing [TS]

  so I think Apple can address that top [TS]

  layer before they have to go all way [TS]

  down to the bottom and start you know [TS]

  and what was that google has a project [TS]

  like that what was it called this is the [TS]

  the show where I can't remember the [TS]

  names of anything fuschia there we go I [TS]

  pulled it out pulled it out before the [TS]

  chat room huh [TS]

  that there fuschia operating system sort [TS]

  of like and out in the open let's try [TS]

  this experiment with another potential [TS]

  platform which is such an unappetizing [TS]

  to do which is like so is confusion is [TS]

  like wait so you're still doing Chrome [TS]

  OS and what about Android and what the [TS]

  hell is fuchsia and not an Apple move at [TS]

  all but Apple should be doing things [TS]

  exactly like that internally maybe they [TS]

  are who knows I don't know it's just [TS]

  weird cuz in the last 24 hours as I [TS]

  mentioned previously I've I've been [TS]

  reminded how much I freaking love this [TS]

  MacBook adorable even the keyboard which [TS]

  admittedly is not the most reliable [TS]

  thing in the world but I do love the [TS]

  feel of it something something [TS]

  tremendous turns off by itself sometimes [TS]

  but it's fine I won't make much it's [TS]

  it's not a big deal no I love I love [TS]

  this I love this little laptop and I [TS]

  love this little laptops hardware design [TS]

  but I tell you [TS]

  Mac's the Apple software is not not [TS]

  doing it for me and for a fleeting [TS]

  moment earlier today actually it was [TS]

  yesterday it's all a blur you guys [TS]

  anyway for a fleeting moment sometime in [TS]

  the last 48 hours I thought to myself [TS]

  man I wonder if I should just try [TS]

  Windows again no because well and I know [TS]

  that that's the answer but but I'm [TS]

  looking at and I think I tweeted about [TS]

  this [TS]

  but I was trying to pull pictures off my [TS]

  iPhone an image capture which is you [TS]

  know an on board an app that comes with [TS]

  the operating system that is designed to [TS]

  do specific [TS]