The Accidental Tech Podcast

01:00:00 ◼   ► percent off your first purchase make [TS]

01:00:01 ◼   ► your next move with a beautiful website [TS]

01:00:03 ◼   ► from Squarespace I actually had a call [TS]

01:00:08 ◼   ► with Apple PR last week about the iMac [TS]

01:00:11 ◼   ► Pro after we recorded what did you get a [TS]

01:00:14 ◼   ► call Casey I didn't get a call I did not [TS]

01:00:16 ◼   ► get to go out of course I didn't get a [TS]

01:00:17 ◼   ► call I mean come on you sound like the [TS]

01:00:20 ◼   ► biggest of iMac Pro fans in the fray [TS]

01:00:21 ◼   ► they would call Casey you know yeah [TS]

01:00:23 ◼   ► Casey has a review unit that would be [TS]

01:00:26 ◼   ► that would be the ultimate trol oh my [TS]

01:00:28 ◼   ► god that would that be amazing but no I [TS]

01:00:30 ◼   ► have received no calls of any sort I am [TS]

01:00:32 ◼   ► I am not special well anyway they reach [TS]

01:00:36 ◼   ► out to me and said they wanted to [TS]

01:00:37 ◼   ► schedule a call I was very pleasantly [TS]

01:00:39 ◼   ► surprised and so I prepared some [TS]

01:00:41 ◼   ► questions and I you know didn't know [TS]

01:00:43 ◼   ► what to expect but it was really nice it [TS]

01:00:46 ◼   ► was really you know pretty pretty open [TS]

01:00:48 ◼   ► pretty laid-back I mean you know and to [TS]

01:00:50 ◼   ► just set the the expectations a little [TS]

01:00:53 ◼   ► bit like sometimes people will get mad [TS]

01:00:55 ◼   ► at you know like somebody like like when [TS]

01:00:56 ◼   ► John grouper has his podcast where he'll [TS]

01:00:59 ◼   ► occasionally have an Apple executive on [TS]

01:01:00 ◼   ► some people get mad that he doesn't ask [TS]

01:01:02 ◼   ► certain questions like things like you [TS]

01:01:05 ◼   ► know when's the next Mac Pro coming cuz [TS]

01:01:07 ◼   ► like you know the reality is like apples [TS]

01:01:09 ◼   ► not going to tell you about future [TS]

01:01:11 ◼   ► products it's kind of a waste of a [TS]

01:01:12 ◼   ► question like if you're only given a [TS]

01:01:14 ◼   ► limited amount of time it's a waste of [TS]

01:01:16 ◼   ► time to ask them questions they are [TS]

01:01:17 ◼   ► unlikely to answer or Lord likely to [TS]

01:01:20 ◼   ► give you the answer you want you know [TS]

01:01:22 ◼   ► like it's so like asking about like when [TS]

01:01:24 ◼   ► future products are coming or really [TS]

01:01:26 ◼   ► asking anything about future products is [TS]

01:01:29 ◼   ► a waste of time so I didn't I'm sure [TS]

01:01:32 ◼   ► someone's gonna be mad and write in [TS]

01:01:33 ◼   ► because of something I didn't ask but [TS]

01:01:35 ◼   ► that was generally there might be things [TS]

01:01:38 ◼   ► I just didn't think about but generally [TS]

01:01:40 ◼   ► there were a lot of things that I didn't [TS]

01:01:41 ◼   ► ask because the real question even if it [TS]

01:01:44 ◼   ► wasn't a phrase a certain way you can [TS]

01:01:46 ◼   ► tell the real question is really about a [TS]

01:01:48 ◼   ► future product so for example like I [TS]

01:01:50 ◼   ► wanted to ask about like you know why [TS]

01:01:52 ◼   ► are there so many USB a ports and a card [TS]

01:01:55 ◼   ► reader on the back but I knew like [TS]

01:01:57 ◼   ► that's really a question about the [TS]

01:01:59 ◼   ► MacBook Pro that was my question you did [TS]

01:02:01 ◼   ► so you didn't ask that was my first [TS]

01:02:02 ◼   ► thing to ask you you didn't ask my [TS]

01:02:03 ◼   ► question I actually did kind of ask it [TS]

01:02:06 ◼   ► but I didn't get the response that was [TS]

01:02:08 ◼   ► like well you know our Pro customers [TS]

01:02:10 ◼   ► hated the MacBook Pro like no it wasn't [TS]

01:02:11 ◼   ► like that it was basically explaining [TS]

01:02:13 ◼   ► like you know [TS]

01:02:13 ◼   ► we offer the ports as many as we could [TS]

01:02:15 ◼   ► for a pro customers it's like that kind [TS]

01:02:17 ◼   ► of thing ya know that's what that's that [TS]

01:02:19 ◼   ► question there's those type of questions [TS]

01:02:21 ◼   ► because you can't ask them about future [TS]

01:02:22 ◼   ► things you can only ask them about the [TS]

01:02:23 ◼   ► product so basically that's that's the [TS]

01:02:25 ◼   ► only way you ever you mean anything is [TS]

01:02:26 ◼   ► to say why does product that you're at [TS]

01:02:29 ◼   ► that we're talking about right now have [TS]

01:02:31 ◼   ► a feature right so right why doesn't it [TS]

01:02:34 ◼   ► you can't even say why does the iMac Pro [TS]

01:02:37 ◼   ► have USBA ports and the MacBook Pro [TS]

01:02:39 ◼   ► doesn't you have to just say I noticed [TS]

01:02:42 ◼   ► there's a lot of USB 8 ports in the back [TS]

01:02:43 ◼   ► why are those there or like why does it [TS]

01:02:45 ◼   ► have them and like in to give them the [TS]

01:02:47 ◼   ► opportunity to give their canned PR [TS]

01:02:48 ◼   ► answer and if they don't have a camp [TS]

01:02:50 ◼   ► your answer because I thought you know [TS]

01:02:51 ◼   ► whatever ask that then they have to [TS]

01:02:53 ◼   ► think on their feet and maybe you get a [TS]

01:02:54 ◼   ► little bit of insight but sometimes [TS]

01:02:55 ◼   ► there may be very forthcoming about you [TS]

01:02:57 ◼   ► know like they could say there's some [TS]

01:02:59 ◼   ► specific customers that we talk to that [TS]

01:03:01 ◼   ► really important USB or peripherals and [TS]

01:03:02 ◼   ► we thought like you never know what [TS]

01:03:03 ◼   ► they're gonna say and that's the way to [TS]

01:03:04 ◼   ► get get legit information out of it you [TS]

01:03:06 ◼   ► just have to know how to phrase it not [TS]

01:03:08 ◼   ► as this computer doesn't have them what [TS]

01:03:10 ◼   ► is the iMac Pro have them because that's [TS]

01:03:11 ◼   ► not going to put them in the right frame [TS]

01:03:13 ◼   ► of mind to give you any good info right [TS]

01:03:15 ◼   ► exactly anyway it's very clear that they [TS]

01:03:19 ◼   ► really are very heavily focused on [TS]

01:03:21 ◼   ► developers for this machine you know it [TS]

01:03:24 ◼   ► wasn't immediately obvious when the PR [TS]

01:03:26 ◼   ► first came out like on whatever day it [TS]

01:03:27 ◼   ► was that all the all the embargoes that [TS]

01:03:29 ◼   ► said on that like the first week review [TS]

01:03:30 ◼   ► units it wasn't incredibly obvious then [TS]

01:03:32 ◼   ► because everything that came out first [TS]

01:03:34 ◼   ► was all like youtubers and so we all [TS]

01:03:37 ◼   ► thought myself included like wow they [TS]

01:03:38 ◼   ► just gave it to youtubers that's kind of [TS]

01:03:40 ◼   ► I guess that's understandable but then [TS]

01:03:42 ◼   ► as it turned out like later that day we [TS]

01:03:44 ◼   ► saw a bunch of like tweets and blog [TS]

01:03:46 ◼   ► posts many of which were from developers [TS]

01:03:48 ◼   ► and it's very clear that they actually [TS]

01:03:51 ◼   ► were reaching out to lot developers for [TS]

01:03:53 ◼   ► this and developers just aren't that [TS]

01:03:54 ◼   ► good at like you know being at minute [TS]

01:03:56 ◼   ► one after an embargo and stuff like that [TS]

01:03:58 ◼   ► because developers are not [TS]

01:04:00 ◼   ► you know usually reviewers or [TS]

01:04:01 ◼   ► journalists so that's you know it's kind [TS]

01:04:04 ◼   ► of like trying to coordinate cats to all [TS]

01:04:06 ◼   ► do something [TS]

01:04:06 ◼   ► well I still believe the cats are all a [TS]

01:04:08 ◼   ► hive mind and they're all the same cat [TS]

01:04:10 ◼   ► just different visions of the same cat [TS]

01:04:13 ◼   ► yeah very strong focus on developers [TS]

01:04:15 ◼   ► here they really you could tell that [TS]

01:04:17 ◼   ► they worked with lot of developers and [TS]

01:04:19 ◼   ► development they talked to a lot of [TS]

01:04:20 ◼   ► developers they clearly cared a lot [TS]

01:04:22 ◼   ► about developer needs because a lot of [TS]

01:04:25 ◼   ► these are gonna sell to high-end [TS]

01:04:26 ◼   ► developers they're gonna sell [TS]

01:04:27 ◼   ► - you know just people like me who are [TS]

01:04:30 ◼   ► willing to spend the money on a very [TS]

01:04:31 ◼   ► very fast machine for our app [TS]

01:04:33 ◼   ► development they're gonna sell to you [TS]

01:04:35 ◼   ► know VR developers you know hopefully [TS]

01:04:37 ◼   ► and you know high end developers content [TS]

01:04:39 ◼   ► creators and cetera so like they were [TS]

01:04:40 ◼   ► very concerned about making sure that [TS]

01:04:42 ◼   ► this was a good machine for developers [TS]

01:04:44 ◼   ► and I really respect that and even [TS]

01:04:46 ◼   ► though you know it's kind of I'm a [TS]

01:04:48 ◼   ► little bit biased and that because I'm a [TS]

01:04:49 ◼   ► developer and this worked out for me [TS]

01:04:50 ◼   ► because they wanted to talk to me [TS]

01:04:52 ◼   ► so obviously I'm a little bit biased but [TS]

01:04:54 ◼   ► I thought that was a really good angle [TS]

01:04:56 ◼   ► they seemed sincere about it they seem [TS]

01:04:57 ◼   ► like they've really done their homework [TS]

01:04:58 ◼   ► then their diligence and done their [TS]

01:04:59 ◼   ► research and for instance like one of [TS]

01:05:02 ◼   ► the things was that 10 core they find is [TS]

01:05:05 ◼   ► is the most ideal configuration for most [TS]

01:05:07 ◼   ► developer workflows and they know this [TS]

01:05:09 ◼   ► because they actually did tests and you [TS]

01:05:11 ◼   ► know work of people and figured out what [TS]

01:05:12 ◼   ► people do and and were able to tell that [TS]

01:05:15 ◼   ► like usually after about the 10 core [TS]

01:05:17 ◼   ► mark the you know today's tools tend to [TS]

01:05:20 ◼   ► not use many of the cores after that or [TS]

01:05:22 ◼   ► your bottlenecked by other things like [TS]

01:05:24 ◼   ► i/o so that made total sense one of [TS]

01:05:27 ◼   ► these I asked about because you know [TS]

01:05:29 ◼   ► last show we had a lot of discussion [TS]

01:05:30 ◼   ► about the thermal design of the iMac Pro [TS]

01:05:34 ◼   ► and and about the idea that they were [TS]

01:05:36 ◼   ► down clocking the the two base CPUs [TS]

01:05:39 ◼   ► violate 10% or something at their base [TS]

01:05:41 ◼   ► clocks and we're kind of saying you know [TS]

01:05:44 ◼   ► John had a lot of thoughts about it and [TS]

01:05:45 ◼   ► kind of saying like you know why drop [TS]

01:05:47 ◼   ► down the performance to fit in the [TS]

01:05:50 ◼   ► enclosure that nobody was asking you to [TS]

01:05:51 ◼   ► fit it in so I asked a lot about this [TS]

01:05:54 ◼   ► and they were pretty unwavering about [TS]

01:05:58 ◼   ► that they didn't like cram it in here [TS]

01:06:02 ◼   ► unnecessarily they tried to see if they [TS]

01:06:06 ◼   ► could fit workstation components into [TS]

01:06:08 ◼   ► this case and they could you know they [TS]

01:06:11 ◼   ► did a lot of redesigning of the thermal [TS]

01:06:12 ◼   ► so like because there is no 3.5 inch [TS]

01:06:15 ◼   ► disc offered in the iMac Pro that frees [TS]

01:06:18 ◼   ► up a pretty large block of pretty [TS]

01:06:21 ◼   ► premium space right in the middle and [TS]

01:06:23 ◼   ► and you know the screen I have just [TS]

01:06:25 ◼   ► compared to the in terms of my Mac are [TS]

01:06:26 ◼   ► huge and it certainly does seem like [TS]

01:06:29 ◼   ► they have filled a lot of that space [TS]

01:06:30 ◼   ► with like heatsink basically because it [TS]

01:06:34 ◼   ► certainly has a massive heatsink [TS]

01:06:36 ◼   ► apparatus back there from the pictures [TS]

01:06:37 ◼   ► so the the impression I got from this [TS]

01:06:39 ◼   ► question is that [TS]

01:06:41 ◼   ► they didn't have to compromise to fit [TS]

01:06:45 ◼   ► the workstation parts into this case [TS]

01:06:47 ◼   ► they designed it it fit and there seems [TS]

01:06:50 ◼   ► to be Headroom which I get to in a [TS]

01:06:51 ◼   ► little bit so what do they say about the [TS]

01:06:53 ◼   ► down clocking we had some feedback about [TS]

01:06:55 ◼   ► that so this is the base CPUs that you [TS]

01:06:57 ◼   ► talked about but there's also the GPUs [TS]

01:06:59 ◼   ► which I didn't know whether they were [TS]

01:07:01 ◼   ► down clocking and I speculated that [TS]

01:07:02 ◼   ► maybe they'd be 90% down but someone [TS]

01:07:04 ◼   ► emailed the show to say there are [TS]

01:07:05 ◼   ► actually 83% down clock versus what they [TS]

01:07:08 ◼   ► would be like if you took that same card [TS]

01:07:10 ◼   ► and put it in a PC and so and also one [TS]

01:07:13 ◼   ► other bit of feedback about down [TS]

01:07:14 ◼   ► clocking specifically the GPUs again I [TS]

01:07:17 ◼   ► don't know if the provenance of this [TS]

01:07:19 ◼   ► information is sound or not but someone [TS]

01:07:21 ◼   ► emailed it to suggest that AMD has been [TS]

01:07:24 ◼   ► optimistic with the clock speeds and [TS]

01:07:27 ◼   ► that really if you run them at the [TS]

01:07:29 ◼   ► quote-unquote rated speed it shortens [TS]

01:07:31 ◼   ► their life and Apple cares more about [TS]

01:07:32 ◼   ► them so that they just by you know they [TS]

01:07:34 ◼   ► just always run them slightly down [TS]

01:07:36 ◼   ► clocked anyway just because if they [TS]

01:07:37 ◼   ► don't they'll have reliability problems [TS]

01:07:39 ◼   ► I don't know if that's crash can't fall [TS]

01:07:40 ◼   ► out or just total BS or just speculation [TS]

01:07:43 ◼   ► or whatever but anyway all we know is [TS]

01:07:46 ◼   ► the the numbers we can look at and [TS]

01:07:47 ◼   ► apparently if you buy this exact card [TS]

01:07:50 ◼   ► from AMD and it's on a player card slot [TS]

01:07:53 ◼   ► the iMac is running them 83 percent [TS]

01:07:55 ◼   ► slower which is you know not not [TS]

01:07:59 ◼   ► insignificant so when they say can we [TS]

01:08:00 ◼   ► fit it yes they could fit it but if you [TS]

01:08:02 ◼   ► can fit it by down clocking and using [TS]

01:08:05 ◼   ► slower speed things did you really fit [TS]

01:08:09 ◼   ► it or did you have to compromise them [TS]

01:08:10 ◼   ► something like I feel like their answer [TS]

01:08:12 ◼   ► to you is just rephrasing the question [TS]

01:08:13 ◼   ► like why did you fit everything inside [TS]

01:08:15 ◼   ► the case we wanted to see if we could [TS]

01:08:16 ◼   ► fair yeah but why well I didn't like [TS]

01:08:17 ◼   ► what the real question is why didn't you [TS]

01:08:19 ◼   ► make a new case and that the reason [TS]

01:08:21 ◼   ► there was like old we didn't want to [TS]

01:08:22 ◼   ► spend that much money on it it would be [TS]

01:08:23 ◼   ► a lot of design time we wouldn't you [TS]

01:08:25 ◼   ► know like there's other reasons that [TS]

01:08:26 ◼   ► they're probably not going to tell you [TS]

01:08:27 ◼   ► of why they didn't design a new case [TS]

01:08:29 ◼   ► because surely it is faster to market [TS]

01:08:31 ◼   ► and cost them less money in less time [TS]

01:08:33 ◼   ► and less everything to use the same [TS]

01:08:36 ◼   ► external design probably well that I was [TS]

01:08:39 ◼   ► gonna say they get to use the same visa [TS]

01:08:40 ◼   ► mounts but they did change that part of [TS]

01:08:42 ◼   ► the case so I don't know it's still [TS]

01:08:43 ◼   ► slightly mysterious to me but anyway [TS]

01:08:45 ◼   ► that from as far as we can tell you take [TS]

01:08:48 ◼   ► those same parts and put them in an ugly [TS]

01:08:51 ◼   ► boxy PC and you can get them all to run [TS]

01:08:54 ◼   ► at fast [TS]

01:08:54 ◼   ► speeds or use hi urban parts yeah I mean [TS]

01:08:57 ◼   ► the the GPU I honestly I I don't have [TS]

01:09:00 ◼   ► any qualifications to talk about GPUs so [TS]

01:09:02 ◼   ► I didn't ask really anything about them [TS]

01:09:04 ◼   ► because I don't know any much GPUs but [TS]

01:09:06 ◼   ► on the cpu part as a guru points out a [TS]

01:09:09 ◼   ► lot like Apple doesn't usually lie like [TS]

01:09:12 ◼   ► you know they'll spin things a certain [TS]

01:09:14 ◼   ► way if they want to but they don't [TS]

01:09:15 ◼   ► usually outright lie like usually if [TS]

01:09:17 ◼   ► they tell you a straight out answer that [TS]

01:09:19 ◼   ► is the truth so and in this case like [TS]

01:09:22 ◼   ► they were very clear that like they [TS]

01:09:24 ◼   ► didn't need to change the case and and [TS]

01:09:26 ◼   ► there's some thermal stuff that that [TS]

01:09:28 ◼   ► I'll get to in a few minutes that that I [TS]

01:09:29 ◼   ► think probably supports that theory if [TS]

01:09:32 ◼   ► it ends up being you know panning out [TS]

01:09:33 ◼   ► that way on the subject of the CPU down [TS]

01:09:37 ◼   ► clocking so I did some research before [TS]

01:09:39 ◼   ► the call and I discovered that it's only [TS]

01:09:41 ◼   ► the eight and ten core that are down [TS]

01:09:43 ◼   ► clocked from there like retail speeds [TS]

01:09:45 ◼   ► from the retail parts the the 14 and 18 [TS]

01:09:48 ◼   ► are identical they are all overrated at [TS]

01:09:50 ◼   ► the same TDP to the same heat capacity [TS]

01:09:53 ◼   ► of 140 watts they all are the same the [TS]

01:09:56 ◼   ► eight and ten core chips are special [TS]

01:09:59 ◼   ► chips that were made by Intel just for [TS]

01:10:01 ◼   ► apples OEM use here that's why they even [TS]

01:10:04 ◼   ► have different model numbers they they [TS]

01:10:05 ◼   ► have a B on the end and they're like [TS]

01:10:06 ◼   ► slightly different numbers than their [TS]

01:10:07 ◼   ► counterparts if you look at all into the [TS]

01:10:09 ◼   ► Wikipedia table that lists all this all [TS]

01:10:11 ◼   ► this guy like Zeon's so you can see like [TS]

01:10:13 ◼   ► there these are special chips that are [TS]

01:10:15 ◼   ► only used in you know by Apple and only [TS]

01:10:18 ◼   ► so far only in the iMac Pro and their [TS]

01:10:20 ◼   ► answer to that was basically like you [TS]

01:10:22 ◼   ► know you know they are they are the [TS]

01:10:23 ◼   ► custom part from Intel and that's just [TS]

01:10:25 ◼   ► how the how the clock speeds bend out [TS]

01:10:27 ◼   ► for these chips one of the things they [TS]

01:10:29 ◼   ► wanted to make sure of is that all of [TS]

01:10:31 ◼   ► the processors that are available in the [TS]

01:10:34 ◼   ► iMac Pro have the same avx-512 [TS]

01:10:37 ◼   ► processing capacity these are the new [TS]

01:10:39 ◼   ► instructions that are I think new to [TS]

01:10:41 ◼   ► these chips or at least a new to the [TS]

01:10:42 ◼   ► current generation of Zeon's these are [TS]

01:10:46 ◼   ► super high high-end like vector [TS]

01:10:47 ◼   ► instructions for certain types of math [TS]

01:10:49 ◼   ► that can be very well optimized some of [TS]

01:10:51 ◼   ► the Zeon's that are in this family only [TS]

01:10:53 ◼   ► have one compute unit the high-end ones [TS]

01:10:56 ◼   ► have two Apple made sure that all of [TS]

01:10:58 ◼   ► theirs have to that being said I looked [TS]

01:11:02 ◼   ► at the specs for the corresponding parts [TS]

01:11:04 ◼   ► that are slightly higher clocked and [TS]

01:11:05 ◼   ► they have to also so I'm not entirely [TS]

01:11:07 ◼   ► sure [TS]

01:11:08 ◼   ► what that means right now that could be [TS]

01:11:10 ◼   ► it could have been a later change in the [TS]

01:11:11 ◼   ► in the release cycle for Intel where [TS]

01:11:14 ◼   ► they decided to put two on those or it [TS]

01:11:15 ◼   ► could have been referencing different [TS]

01:11:16 ◼   ► parts they could have used but didn't [TS]

01:11:17 ◼   ► but the important thing that I got from [TS]

01:11:20 ◼   ► the call is that they didn't see see [TS]

01:11:22 ◼   ► this has an artificial lowering of the [TS]

01:11:24 ◼   ► clock speed this is just how they were [TS]

01:11:25 ◼   ► bent out for their custom part and they [TS]

01:11:27 ◼   ► made sure their custom parts all had the [TS]

01:11:29 ◼   ► same avx-512 dual processing units so [TS]

01:11:33 ◼   ► let's custom about them besides the [TS]

01:11:35 ◼   ► besides the AVX stuff I don't know I can [TS]

01:11:38 ◼   ► ask them I mean that you know they [TS]

01:11:39 ◼   ► they're friendly they'll probably answer [TS]

01:11:41 ◼   ► an email if I ask them so I think our [TS]

01:11:45 ◼   ► concerns about the thermals are probably [TS]

01:11:47 ◼   ► unwarranted because what I heard from [TS]

01:11:50 ◼   ► them which confirms what I heard from [TS]

01:11:52 ◼   ► other people who were at their demos or [TS]

01:11:54 ◼   ► who've had a review units so far it [TS]

01:11:57 ◼   ► sounds like there is a lot of thermal [TS]

01:11:59 ◼   ► Headroom they had certain demos at these [TS]

01:12:03 ◼   ► events that were running on loops all [TS]

01:12:05 ◼   ► day long that were stressing all the CPU [TS]

01:12:07 ◼   ► cores at like 60% or higher all the time [TS]

01:12:09 ◼   ► and that you couldn't even really hear [TS]

01:12:11 ◼   ► the fan and and what I was told [TS]

01:12:14 ◼   ► it basically is that the way the [TS]

01:12:16 ◼   ► thermals work out in this generation [TS]

01:12:18 ◼   ► that you can hammer the CPU is pretty [TS]

01:12:22 ◼   ► hard and you probably won't hear the fan [TS]

01:12:24 ◼   ► spin up you will pretty much only hear [TS]

01:12:26 ◼   ► it get loud if you're hammering the CPUs [TS]

01:12:28 ◼   ► and the GPUs and actually and this [TS]

01:12:31 ◼   ► actually is plausible to me because this [TS]

01:12:33 ◼   ► is actually not that different from how [TS]

01:12:34 ◼   ► the sky like laptops work this is the [TS]

01:12:36 ◼   ► sky like and I and what is the ivy [TS]

01:12:38 ◼   ► bridge but I already forgot to forget so [TS]

01:12:41 ◼   ► the current laptop generation compared [TS]

01:12:43 ◼   ► to the the old one that I'm still [TS]

01:12:44 ◼   ► holding on to is way quieter under CPU [TS]

01:12:47 ◼   ► load it doesn't spin up for nearly as [TS]

01:12:49 ◼   ► you know as long you know and and you [TS]

01:12:52 ◼   ► know it cools down much faster and [TS]

01:12:53 ◼   ► everything else so given that these are [TS]

01:12:55 ◼   ► the Zeon's from the skylake family that [TS]

01:12:56 ◼   ► actually I think makes sense that's [TS]

01:12:59 ◼   ► believable to me and it does seem like [TS]

01:13:02 ◼   ► they've designed this with a lot of [TS]

01:13:03 ◼   ► thermal Headroom so for the moment [TS]

01:13:07 ◼   ► having not used one of these yet having [TS]

01:13:08 ◼   ► our own one of these yet it does sound [TS]

01:13:11 ◼   ► like they are not concerned about [TS]

01:13:13 ◼   ► thermals and all the demo units and all [TS]

01:13:15 ◼   ► the review units out there so far have [TS]

01:13:17 ◼   ► shown pretty awesome thermal thermal and [TS]

01:13:18 ◼   ► noise performance so so far it seems [TS]

01:13:21 ◼   ► tentatively [TS]

01:13:22 ◼   ► like it might be pretty awesome on the [TS]

01:13:23 ◼   ► thermal and heat front and therefore [TS]

01:13:25 ◼   ► that also supports their position that [TS]

01:13:28 ◼   ► these aren't really down clocked for [TS]

01:13:30 ◼   ► meaningful performance reasons well you [TS]

01:13:32 ◼   ► keep excluding the GPU because you [TS]

01:13:33 ◼   ► didn't want to talk about but it's [TS]

01:13:34 ◼   ► happen or than half of the heat in here [TS]

01:13:37 ◼   ► and certainly half of the equation like [TS]

01:13:39 ◼   ► if the if this info from is is just from [TS]

01:13:42 ◼   ► a listener because I don't know though [TS]

01:13:43 ◼   ► the clock speeds of this Jeep unit stuff [TS]

01:13:44 ◼   ► but if if these GPUs really are at 83% [TS]

01:13:46 ◼   ► of the clock speed that if you were to [TS]

01:13:48 ◼   ► buy the same card and put it in a PC and [TS]

01:13:51 ◼   ► get the fastest one like why would you [TS]

01:13:53 ◼   ► choose to do that if you got the thermal [TS]

01:13:54 ◼   ► Headroom it doesn't you know especially [TS]

01:13:57 ◼   ► if it's like literally the same part [TS]

01:13:58 ◼   ► down clock to not just been differently [TS]

01:14:00 ◼   ► for pricing thing like I don't quite [TS]

01:14:02 ◼   ► understand how that math works out so it [TS]

01:14:05 ◼   ► sounds like for the CPU we have some [TS]

01:14:07 ◼   ► good information on it and certainly [TS]

01:14:09 ◼   ► you've been doing things the stress of [TS]

01:14:10 ◼   ► CPU and it seems like there's plenty of [TS]

01:14:11 ◼   ► room but kind of like in the trashcan if [TS]

01:14:13 ◼   ► you happen to do something that uses [TS]

01:14:15 ◼   ► them both at once what does that do to [TS]

01:14:17 ◼   ► things like you know why the explanation [TS]

01:14:20 ◼   ► for why the the CPUs are down clock like [TS]

01:14:22 ◼   ► oh that's just how they bend out and [TS]

01:14:23 ◼   ► maybe they had to be slower clocked [TS]

01:14:25 ◼   ► because they've got the two AVX units [TS]

01:14:27 ◼   ► and the normal ones that size didn't [TS]

01:14:29 ◼   ► that kind of make some kind of sense [TS]

01:14:30 ◼   ► right but why on the other side of the [TS]

01:14:33 ◼   ► case where the other fan is blowing into [TS]

01:14:36 ◼   ► you know what it likes when both hands [TS]

01:14:37 ◼   ► are rolling through the same heatsink [TS]

01:14:38 ◼   ► but anyway on the other side of the case [TS]

01:14:39 ◼   ► where the GPU is why if that if that [TS]

01:14:43 ◼   ► stuff actually has clocked down and by [TS]

01:14:44 ◼   ► the way if you're if you know the exact [TS]

01:14:46 ◼   ► clock speeds of like the the GPUs CPU [TS]

01:14:49 ◼   ► and memory buses please send it to the [TS]

01:14:51 ◼   ► show like that doesn't match up with the [TS]

01:14:55 ◼   ► idea that there's plenty of thermal [TS]

01:14:57 ◼   ► Headroom because especially like on the [TS]

01:14:59 ◼   ► high end part why wouldn't you run those [TS]

01:15:01 ◼   ► that they're full speed yeah and [TS]

01:15:03 ◼   ► honestly I again I just I don't know [TS]

01:15:04 ◼   ► whether they're whether from at full [TS]

01:15:06 ◼   ► speed or not I I will say they're like [TS]

01:15:08 ◼   ► you know they didn't nothing they said [TS]

01:15:10 ◼   ► indicated that it couldn't handle [TS]

01:15:11 ◼   ► stressing both the CPU and GPU just that [TS]

01:15:14 ◼   ► you'd be more likely to hear it yeah I [TS]

01:15:16 ◼   ► don't know I would imagine the demos [TS]

01:15:17 ◼   ► that they should actually did stress [TS]

01:15:18 ◼   ► both of them you know we haven't been [TS]

01:15:20 ◼   ► there for the demos but I think the [TS]

01:15:21 ◼   ► demos probably did stress both the GPU [TS]

01:15:23 ◼   ► and the CPU so maybe those are a good [TS]

01:15:24 ◼   ► example and you know and maybe again [TS]

01:15:26 ◼   ► they traded the quiet for like look if [TS]

01:15:28 ◼   ► we if we clock this it at 83% of max [TS]

01:15:31 ◼   ► speed we can just be quiet all the time [TS]

01:15:32 ◼   ► them [TS]

01:15:33 ◼   ► or Wyden isn't that a better pro [TS]

01:15:34 ◼   ► experience then allowing it to get noisy [TS]

01:15:37 ◼   ► you know for this particular case [TS]

01:15:39 ◼   ► because maybe some people are using [TS]

01:15:41 ◼   ► applications that are stressing both of [TS]

01:15:42 ◼   ► them all the time and it's not a great [TS]

01:15:44 ◼   ► experience for the pro Mac whose fans [TS]

01:15:47 ◼   ► you can't escape by putting it under the [TS]

01:15:48 ◼   ► desk to be noisy like I can I can come [TS]

01:15:51 ◼   ► up with all sorts of reasons why they [TS]

01:15:52 ◼   ► can explain this because again this is [TS]

01:15:53 ◼   ► the the compact pearl machine it's not [TS]

01:15:56 ◼   ► it's not the Mac Pro right side Adam I [TS]

01:15:59 ◼   ► don't know which those of those [TS]

01:16:02 ◼   ► explanations that I could come up on on [TS]

01:16:04 ◼   ► my own is the right one if any you know [TS]

01:16:07 ◼   ► and maybe III think what you know what [TS]

01:16:09 ◼   ► you said about kind of like hitting like [TS]

01:16:10 ◼   ► a constant load minimum heat performance [TS]

01:16:13 ◼   ► kind of thing that might be related to [TS]

01:16:15 ◼   ► the way the CPUs are clocked because it [TS]

01:16:18 ◼   ► I think it says something that these all [TS]

01:16:20 ◼   ► have the same TDP so like when driven [TS]

01:16:22 ◼   ► fully like at maximum all the core [TS]

01:16:25 ◼   ► stressed they will all cap out at the [TS]

01:16:27 ◼   ► same heat output at all the core counts [TS]

01:16:30 ◼   ► however only the bottom two chips had [TS]

01:16:33 ◼   ► their base clocks reduced from from the [TS]

01:16:36 ◼   ► Intel retail parts so maybe it really is [TS]

01:16:38 ◼   ► like a heat and noise thing because the [TS]

01:16:40 ◼   ► way turbo boost works you know that with [TS]

01:16:42 ◼   ► all the all modern Intel chips like if [TS]

01:16:44 ◼   ► it has thermal Headroom it will increase [TS]

01:16:47 ◼   ► its its clock speed until it hits a [TS]

01:16:50 ◼   ► certain maximum that it won't go past or [TS]

01:16:51 ◼   ► until it starts getting too hot or until [TS]

01:16:54 ◼   ► certain until like more cores get [TS]

01:16:56 ◼   ► engaged and then it's just it starts to [TS]

01:16:57 ◼   ► reduce the overall sealing on them so [TS]

01:16:59 ◼   ► that keeps below that threshold but it [TS]

01:17:01 ◼   ► doesn't ever go below the base speed and [TS]

01:17:04 ◼   ► what the and and the turbo clock is [TS]

01:17:06 ◼   ► reduced went on those two that they've [TS]

01:17:08 ◼   ► modified the eight and ten core they did [TS]

01:17:10 ◼   ► reduce the turbo boost max speed as well [TS]

01:17:12 ◼   ► so I don't know what that means in this [TS]

01:17:14 ◼   ► in this theory but by reducing the base [TS]

01:17:17 ◼   ► clock it's still gonna turbo up a lot [TS]

01:17:19 ◼   ► when it's in use but it's gonna run at [TS]

01:17:22 ◼   ► the reduced base clock speed when it's [TS]

01:17:24 ◼   ► not doing heavy lifting and so maybe [TS]

01:17:27 ◼   ► that is primarily there for you know [TS]

01:17:31 ◼   ► lower noise and heat when it's most of [TS]

01:17:34 ◼   ► the time doing pretty light work [TS]

01:17:36 ◼   ► so really all of our well maybe not all [TS]

01:17:40 ◼   ► but a lot of our qualms from last [TS]

01:17:42 ◼   ► episode may be a little premature yeah I [TS]

01:17:45 ◼   ► mean yeah the answer really is we don't [TS]

01:17:46 ◼   ► really [TS]

01:17:47 ◼   ► no yet until until we really get these [TS]

01:17:49 ◼   ► machines until I get this machine but [TS]

01:17:53 ◼   ► although well I'll get to that in a [TS]

01:17:55 ◼   ► minute but uh until I really get these [TS]

01:17:57 ◼   ► machines we really can't be incredibly [TS]

01:17:59 ◼   ► sure about any of these things [TS]

01:18:00 ◼   ► I am hopeful now with you know after [TS]

01:18:03 ◼   ► having this call and also having you [TS]

01:18:05 ◼   ► know heard from the reviewers and the [TS]

01:18:07 ◼   ► people who were at these events it [TS]

01:18:09 ◼   ► doesn't sound like there's reason to be [TS]

01:18:10 ◼   ► concerned about the thermals yet and [TS]

01:18:12 ◼   ► that's pretty promising I I'm very happy [TS]

01:18:15 ◼   ► to hear that because that was my big [TS]

01:18:16 ◼   ► concern going into this it seems like [TS]

01:18:18 ◼   ► there's a lot of headroom and that they [TS]

01:18:20 ◼   ► didn't need to make the case bigger and [TS]

01:18:23 ◼   ► make it full of holes like what john [TS]

01:18:24 ◼   ► wanted so we'll see if that if that [TS]

01:18:26 ◼   ► actually pans out but III think it's [TS]

01:18:28 ◼   ► plausible I asked a few more things kind [TS]

01:18:32 ◼   ► of like side notes here on the t2 one [TS]

01:18:35 ◼   ► thing I thought was very interesting is [TS]

01:18:36 ◼   ► that it is indeed the SSD controller [TS]

01:18:39 ◼   ► like it is the disk controller and in [TS]

01:18:42 ◼   ► all of the configurations not just the [TS]

01:18:45 ◼   ► four terabyte one it uses dual SSD [TS]

01:18:48 ◼   ► modules and I use them parallel for [TS]

01:18:50 ◼   ► performance and so even if the fight [TS]

01:18:52 ◼   ► even if you get the terabyte that's just [TS]

01:18:54 ◼   ► using two 512 and with the t2 [TS]

01:18:57 ◼   ► controlling it you know that it isn't it [TS]

01:19:00 ◼   ► isn't abstracted to the OS as to disks [TS]

01:19:02 ◼   ► the way if you just plug in like a two [TS]

01:19:03 ◼   ► disk enclosure without any kind of raid [TS]

01:19:04 ◼   ► functionality it shows it but to this it [TS]

01:19:06 ◼   ► isn't like that it shows up as one disk [TS]

01:19:08 ◼   ► the controller shows it as one device [TS]

01:19:10 ◼   ► but behind the scenes it is actually [TS]

01:19:12 ◼   ► using two in parallel it's one of the [TS]

01:19:14 ◼   ► reasons why they're so freaking fast [TS]

01:19:15 ◼   ► we got anonymous feedback about that by [TS]

01:19:18 ◼   ► the way about the dual module thing and [TS]

01:19:20 ◼   ► like I think it just what it boils down [TS]

01:19:21 ◼   ► to is like you just do the benchmark [TS]

01:19:23 ◼   ► look at the performance it's like three [TS]

01:19:24 ◼   ► gigabytes per second read and write [TS]

01:19:25 ◼   ► roughly it's like it's a little bit less [TS]

01:19:27 ◼   ► for right right so the debate about [TS]

01:19:30 ◼   ► single versus dual the feedback we got [TS]

01:19:32 ◼   ► is that it's not actually a dual module [TS]

01:19:33 ◼   ► it's just one module that's split into [TS]

01:19:35 ◼   ► two bits of silicon but the bottom line [TS]

01:19:36 ◼   ► is that what is it like for PCI Express [TS]

01:19:39 ◼   ► Lanes going to this controller yes like [TS]

01:19:41 ◼   ► you you get the results you get and you [TS]

01:19:44 ◼   ► know what whether it's because they're [TS]

01:19:45 ◼   ► dual or it's just one good they could [TS]

01:19:47 ◼   ► have put it on a single chip of four [TS]

01:19:49 ◼   ► different packaging reasons is that they [TS]

01:19:51 ◼   ► are giving you the PCI Express Lanes to [TS]

01:19:53 ◼   ► get maximum performance out of the SSDs [TS]

01:19:55 ◼   ► and the performance is [TS]

01:19:56 ◼   ► better than any other mac essentially [TS]

01:19:58 ◼   ► and did you did you ask them about the [TS]

01:20:01 ◼   ► encryption stuff as well a little bit [TS]

01:20:02 ◼   ► yeah I mean I didn't have a lot of [TS]

01:20:04 ◼   ► question on it because I didn't know [TS]

01:20:05 ◼   ► enough to ask really about but yeah it [TS]

01:20:08 ◼   ► is certainly do it's doing all the [TS]

01:20:09 ◼   ► encryption in hardware like in the t2 so [TS]

01:20:12 ◼   ► there so any so there's two different [TS]

01:20:14 ◼   ► types of encryption going on here [TS]

01:20:16 ◼   ► there's the hardware encryption kind of [TS]

01:20:17 ◼   ► like what iOS devices have where like [TS]

01:20:19 ◼   ► the actual data on the flash is [TS]

01:20:21 ◼   ► encrypted even if you're not using File [TS]

01:20:23 ◼   ► Vault it is encrypted and if you take [TS]

01:20:26 ◼   ► that SSD stick or whatever it is out of [TS]

01:20:29 ◼   ► the iMac Pro and put it in some kind of [TS]

01:20:31 ◼   ► enclosure or another I Mac Pro to try to [TS]

01:20:33 ◼   ► read it you won't be able to because the [TS]

01:20:35 ◼   ► key to decrypt it is you know secure [TS]

01:20:38 ◼   ► Enclave style stored on that t2 the [TS]

01:20:40 ◼   ► reading of the flash is tied to that [TS]

01:20:42 ◼   ► hardware so the only way to read the [TS]

01:20:45 ◼   ► data on the flash is if you can get that [TS]

01:20:47 ◼   ► computer to read it for you if you do [TS]

01:20:49 ◼   ► things like set a firmware password or [TS]

01:20:50 ◼   ► something obviously that's going to [TS]

01:20:51 ◼   ► provide pretty good security on that so [TS]

01:20:53 ◼   ► like you so we can't boot other things I [TS]

01:20:54 ◼   ► actually I didn't ask too much about [TS]

01:20:56 ◼   ► like today like what's different now [TS]

01:20:59 ◼   ► with this with the new secure boot stuff [TS]

01:21:01 ◼   ► with things like firmware passwords and [TS]

01:21:02 ◼   ► boot options and whether it will boot [TS]

01:21:04 ◼   ► external media and stuff like that I [TS]

01:21:07 ◼   ► know a lot of that has changed mostly [TS]

01:21:09 ◼   ► for the better it may be entirely for [TS]

01:21:10 ◼   ► the better so I I can't really talk [TS]

01:21:12 ◼   ► about VAX I don't know enough about it [TS]

01:21:14 ◼   ► yet so there's that level of encryption [TS]

01:21:16 ◼   ► and you can also use file vault on top [TS]

01:21:19 ◼   ► of that and if you do use File Vault its [TS]

01:21:22 ◼   ► encryption instructions are now hardware [TS]

01:21:25 ◼   ► accelerated so that's not even running [TS]

01:21:27 ◼   ► on the xeon it's running on the t - it's [TS]

01:21:29 ◼   ► not taxing xeon at all alright hardware [TS]

01:21:32 ◼   ► accelerated you got my you got my pet [TS]

01:21:33 ◼   ► peeve again oh now it's hardware [TS]

01:21:35 ◼   ► accelerated instead of being executed in [TS]

01:21:37 ◼   ► hardware it'll be executed on hardware [TS]

01:21:40 ◼   ► but there that you got the important [TS]

01:21:42 ◼   ► point is that you don't have to make the [TS]

01:21:44 ◼   ► cpu won't be involved in this so most [TS]

01:21:46 ◼   ► people are speculating like you know [TS]

01:21:48 ◼   ► that you know what performance hit do [TS]

01:21:50 ◼   ► you get for using encryption with HFS+ [TS]

01:21:53 ◼   ► or a BFS and you could measure it and [TS]

01:21:55 ◼   ► you know apples like it's really small [TS]

01:21:56 ◼   ► or whatever I think some testing has [TS]

01:21:58 ◼   ► shown that the hit might actually be [TS]

01:21:59 ◼   ► more with a PFS than it was with a [TS]

01:22:01 ◼   ► better spot whether it's because a [TS]

01:22:03 ◼   ► better encryption or whatever [TS]

01:22:05 ◼   ► theoretically well first of all you know [TS]

01:22:08 ◼   ► assuredly this [TS]

01:22:10 ◼   ► we'll give you more CPU because you CPU [TS]

01:22:13 ◼   ► won't be doing any encryption stuff none [TS]

01:22:15 ◼   ► zero it'll all be done by the t2 which [TS]

01:22:17 ◼   ► is great like I like the idea of these [TS]

01:22:18 ◼   ► little custom coprocessors handling this [TS]

01:22:20 ◼   ► type of this very specific function [TS]

01:22:21 ◼   ► surely they have instructions just for [TS]

01:22:22 ◼   ► its great the second possibility that [TS]

01:22:25 ◼   ► some will have the benchmark to find out [TS]

01:22:26 ◼   ► is okay your CPU is freed up does the T [TS]

01:22:29 ◼   ► to do that encryption job faster than [TS]

01:22:32 ◼   ► the Xeon used to because you know it's [TS]

01:22:33 ◼   ► dedicated type of thing if it does that [TS]

01:22:36 ◼   ► means there would be less of a [TS]

01:22:37 ◼   ► performance hit for enabling FileVault [TS]

01:22:39 ◼   ► on an iMac Pro with the t2 and that's [TS]

01:22:41 ◼   ► something we'll have to benchmark I mean [TS]

01:22:44 ◼   ► I'm guessing there's probably some kind [TS]

01:22:46 ◼   ► of smart implementation detail where cuz [TS]

01:22:48 ◼   ► like it's already in the t20 as the disk [TS]

01:22:52 ◼   ► and controller you know and doing that [TS]

01:22:54 ◼   ► hardware encryption the way OS devices [TS]

01:22:56 ◼   ► do it's already encrypting everything in [TS]

01:22:59 ◼   ► and out at full speed even when firewall [TS]

01:23:01 ◼   ► it's not on [TS]

01:23:02 ◼   ► so I'm guessing by using File Vault [TS]

01:23:06 ◼   ► you're probably just like having another [TS]

01:23:08 ◼   ► mode of maybe of that same encryption or [TS]

01:23:10 ◼   ► having the keys combine in some way or [TS]

01:23:12 ◼   ► something like that I don't know the [TS]

01:23:14 ◼   ► details enough to say but it could be [TS]

01:23:15 ◼   ► and if that's the case there will be [TS]

01:23:16 ◼   ► zero speed hit because like it's doing [TS]

01:23:18 ◼   ► it whether you have File Vault on or not [TS]

01:23:19 ◼   ► and so it's you know like this this [TS]

01:23:21 ◼   ► should be borne out by the benchmarks [TS]

01:23:23 ◼   ► but but it's it's an intriguing [TS]

01:23:24 ◼   ► possibility this brings me back to the [TS]

01:23:25 ◼   ► good old days of film to try media [TS]

01:23:28 ◼   ► accelerator you guys don't remember that [TS]

01:23:30 ◼   ► but know what they're there I have it [TS]

01:23:32 ◼   ► very even in the early days of Mac I was [TS]

01:23:33 ◼   ► too much maybe you were you were around [TS]

01:23:35 ◼   ► for and remember the idea of Apple [TS]

01:23:38 ◼   ► adding chips to Mac's [TS]

01:23:40 ◼   ► to make them faster in basically magical [TS]

01:23:43 ◼   ► ways it's like yeah you can just take a [TS]

01:23:44 ◼   ► CPU and some RAM and a motherboard and [TS]

01:23:47 ◼   ► throw them together but the Apple [TS]

01:23:49 ◼   ► special sauce is they'll play special [TS]

01:23:50 ◼   ► magic chips on there that will make your [TS]

01:23:51 ◼   ► Mac better this is the actual reality of [TS]

01:23:54 ◼   ► the t2 chip and threw down there and I [TS]

01:23:58 ◼   ► mean even on Apple's on page like the [TS]

01:23:59 ◼   ► list of stuff this thing does in [TS]

01:24:01 ◼   ► addition to what we listed is image [TS]

01:24:03 ◼   ► signal processing for the front-facing [TS]

01:24:04 ◼   ► camera audio controller of course the [TS]

01:24:08 ◼   ► secure Enclave the the encryption oh [TS]

01:24:11 ◼   ► actually this is right from Apple's [TS]

01:24:13 ◼   ► marketing page the data in your SSD is [TS]

01:24:15 ◼   ► encrypted using dedicated AES Hardware [TS]

01:24:16 ◼   ► with no effect on the SSDs performance [TS]

01:24:18 ◼   ► it's not clear whether they're talking [TS]

01:24:19 ◼   ► about file vault or the other [TS]

01:24:20 ◼   ► thing but yeah they're like they're [TS]

01:24:23 ◼   ► actually doing something that they had [TS]

01:24:25 ◼   ► very rarely done in the past which is [TS]

01:24:26 ◼   ► throw throwing a chip the chip that [TS]

01:24:29 ◼   ► nobody else has to their computer [TS]

01:24:31 ◼   ► specifically to make them perform better [TS]

01:24:32 ◼   ► and who doesn't like that [TS]

01:24:33 ◼   ► that is a that is a great Pro feature [TS]

01:24:35 ◼   ► and if it lets them like you know these [TS]

01:24:38 ◼   ► are things you should be able to measure [TS]

01:24:39 ◼   ► if it lets them go faster on benchmarks [TS]

01:24:43 ◼   ► because the CPU is not involved in all [TS]

01:24:45 ◼   ► in any of the encryption on the disk [TS]

01:24:46 ◼   ► stuff that's that's a clean win and if [TS]

01:24:49 ◼   ► the T 2 as is rumored is heavily based [TS]

01:24:51 ◼   ► on an existing iPhone chip that's a [TS]

01:24:54 ◼   ► great reuse of IP like we already did [TS]

01:24:57 ◼   ► the work to design this chip for their [TS]

01:24:58 ◼   ► flagship product you can repurpose this [TS]

01:25:00 ◼   ► chip and throw it in with a combination [TS]

01:25:03 ◼   ► of a bunch of other stuff and maybe even [TS]

01:25:04 ◼   ► repurpose some software that you have to [TS]

01:25:06 ◼   ► do say image processing from the iPhone [TS]

01:25:08 ◼   ► or whatever you know and maybe disk [TS]

01:25:11 ◼   ► controller stuff I don't know how much [TS]

01:25:12 ◼   ► of that is shared with the iOS devices [TS]

01:25:14 ◼   ► that might be using a similar thing this [TS]

01:25:16 ◼   ► is a smart way to make a better faster [TS]

01:25:19 ◼   ► computer and I hope the Mac Pro has [TS]

01:25:21 ◼   ► something just like this even though you [TS]

01:25:22 ◼   ► know presumably doesn't have a front [TS]

01:25:24 ◼   ► facing camera or whatever and I think [TS]

01:25:26 ◼   ► you know one of the things we said when [TS]

01:25:27 ◼   ► when the touch bar was launched was you [TS]

01:25:30 ◼   ► know this actually does show like they [TS]

01:25:31 ◼   ► are putting significant engineering [TS]

01:25:33 ◼   ► resources into the Mac still you know [TS]

01:25:35 ◼   ► not as much as we would like sometimes [TS]

01:25:36 ◼   ► but clearly like it isn't just sitting [TS]

01:25:39 ◼   ► around being completely neglected like [TS]

01:25:41 ◼   ► this wasn't this wasn't like a half [TS]

01:25:42 ◼   ► assed [TS]

01:25:42 ◼   ► update this was like a significant [TS]

01:25:44 ◼   ► engineering effort and with with [TS]

01:25:47 ◼   ► significant new things being put into it [TS]

01:25:49 ◼   ► not just like a stock into a motherboard [TS]

01:25:50 ◼   ► and in you know stock parts so give them [TS]

01:25:53 ◼   ► you know full credit where credit is due [TS]

01:25:55 ◼   ► like this is major engineering we're [TS]

01:25:57 ◼   ► going into the Mac and for a long time [TS]

01:25:59 ◼   ► it seemed like that wasn't happening so [TS]

01:26:00 ◼   ► this is this is a nice you know change [TS]

01:26:03 ◼   ► of the narrative and it's good to see [TS]

01:26:05 ◼   ► results what one aspect of this [TS]

01:26:08 ◼   ► integration by the way of like getting [TS]

01:26:09 ◼   ► to the SSD specifically affect great [TS]

01:26:12 ◼   ► performance the encryption addressed for [TS]

01:26:14 ◼   ► free the secure Enclave this is from our [TS]

01:26:18 ◼   ► anonymous source again as president says [TS]

01:26:22 ◼   ► they feel quite confident stating there [TS]

01:26:23 ◼   ► will never be a third party SSD upgrade [TS]

01:26:25 ◼   ► for a t2 equipped a Mac because the [TS]

01:26:27 ◼   ► integration is so tight I mean maybe [TS]

01:26:29 ◼   ► it's tied down to being soldered in or [TS]

01:26:31 ◼   ► maybe it's tight just down to like [TS]

01:26:33 ◼   ► this is not something you can buy off [TS]

01:26:35 ◼   ► the shelf there's tight integration [TS]

01:26:36 ◼   ► between the storage and the controller [TS]

01:26:38 ◼   ► and the encryption and all that other [TS]

01:26:39 ◼   ► stuff going on there that it is a very [TS]

01:26:42 ◼   ► custom solution and that is very much [TS]

01:26:45 ◼   ► like iOS devices where no one considers [TS]

01:26:48 ◼   ► you know upgrading the storage you buy a [TS]

01:26:50 ◼   ► 64 gig phone you're like oh I have to [TS]

01:26:52 ◼   ► mark it upgrade it to 128 no you won't [TS]

01:26:53 ◼   ► like because it's so integrated into [TS]

01:26:55 ◼   ► like everything inside iPhone is from [TS]

01:26:58 ◼   ► has from day one been so tied up with [TS]

01:27:00 ◼   ► the whole security environment of phones [TS]

01:27:02 ◼   ► and the t2 brings the Mac closer to that [TS]

01:27:06 ◼   ► ideal in good ways and bad we haven't [TS]

01:27:07 ◼   ► gotten to the secure boot stuff yet but [TS]

01:27:09 ◼   ► like bringing closer to the ideal of a [TS]

01:27:11 ◼   ► phone of being more resilient to [TS]

01:27:15 ◼   ► Hardware attacks like this is the old [TS]

01:27:16 ◼   ► adage in the world of desktop and even [TS]

01:27:19 ◼   ► laptop computers is physical access [TS]

01:27:20 ◼   ► trumps all security even server's [TS]

01:27:22 ◼   ► physical access trumps all security if [TS]

01:27:23 ◼   ► you are physically there with the [TS]

01:27:25 ◼   ► hardware it doesn't really matter what [TS]

01:27:26 ◼   ► you've done security wise because if [TS]

01:27:28 ◼   ► you're physically there there are so [TS]

01:27:29 ◼   ► many things that you can do to to own [TS]

01:27:32 ◼   ► that machine right with phones the whole [TS]

01:27:36 ◼   ► idea has been to make them resilient to [TS]

01:27:38 ◼   ► that old adage does physical access [TS]

01:27:40 ◼   ► Trump's security here you go here's my [TS]

01:27:41 ◼   ► phone if Apple has done a good job it [TS]

01:27:43 ◼   ► should be really hard for you to get [TS]

01:27:44 ◼   ► anything out of it like anything at all [TS]

01:27:46 ◼   ► aside from you maybe like freezing the [TS]

01:27:49 ◼   ► thing liquid nitrogen and extracting the [TS]

01:27:50 ◼   ► data from RAM but even then it might be [TS]

01:27:52 ◼   ► encrypted like you know so anyway the t2 [TS]

01:27:55 ◼   ► and the associated secure boot machine [TS]

01:27:57 ◼   ► you're insecure and clad and all that [TS]

01:27:58 ◼   ► stuff are an attempt to bring the Mac [TS]

01:28:01 ◼   ► more into that direction for for good [TS]

01:28:04 ◼   ► and bad mostly good in terms of security [TS]

01:28:07 ◼   ► but bad in terms of us as computer [TS]

01:28:12 ◼   ► enthusiasts who occasionally screw up on [TS]

01:28:13 ◼   ► their our computers have gotten used to [TS]

01:28:16 ◼   ► the idea that you know physical access [TS]

01:28:18 ◼   ► Trump's all security is good for us when [TS]

01:28:20 ◼   ► we screw up when we mess up our own [TS]

01:28:22 ◼   ► computers say well it's all messed up [TS]

01:28:24 ◼   ► but because I'm physically here in front [TS]

01:28:25 ◼   ► of the computer I'm gonna plug in this [TS]

01:28:27 ◼   ► other driving boot from it or you know [TS]

01:28:29 ◼   ► I'm gonna go in Target disc mode and [TS]

01:28:30 ◼   ► just pull the data off or whatever like [TS]

01:28:32 ◼   ► you're even though if hosed my OS [TS]

01:28:33 ◼   ► install by messing with the boot loader [TS]

01:28:35 ◼   ► or some girl like there's always [TS]

01:28:35 ◼   ► something we can do to save ourselves [TS]

01:28:37 ◼   ► not so much with an iPhone and maybe not [TS]

01:28:41 ◼   ► so much with one of these iMac pros [TS]

01:28:43 ◼   ► either depending on how you have [TS]

01:28:44 ◼   ► configured yeah and this was one of the [TS]

01:28:46 ◼   ► reasons why like I would strongly advise [TS]

01:28:49 ◼   ► similar to the RAM argument like don't [TS]

01:28:52 ◼   ► assume you're gonna be able to upgrade [TS]

01:28:53 ◼   ► these later you know he said like that [TS]

01:28:55 ◼   ► we know we heard from their anonymous [TS]

01:28:56 ◼   ► tip they don't they don't think that [TS]

01:28:57 ◼   ► it's likely that we're gonna have [TS]

01:28:59 ◼   ► upgradable SSDs from third parties I [TS]

01:29:02 ◼   ► didn't ask this during the call so I [TS]

01:29:04 ◼   ► don't I haven't I don't have any kind of [TS]

01:29:05 ◼   ► official statement on this but I would I [TS]

01:29:08 ◼   ► would guess the same thing it seems very [TS]

01:29:10 ◼   ► likely that's gonna be the case that it [TS]

01:29:12 ◼   ► I don't think you're gonna see a third [TS]

01:29:14 ◼   ► party t2 SSD modules and you know as we [TS]

01:29:18 ◼   ► briefly discussed last week I don't [TS]

01:29:20 ◼   ► think that's that different from how it [TS]

01:29:21 ◼   ► is now like though the last few [TS]

01:29:23 ◼   ► generations of Mac's that we've had you [TS]

01:29:26 ◼   ► haven't had third-party SSD modules [TS]

01:29:29 ◼   ► usually at all or if they do come they [TS]

01:29:31 ◼   ► come like years after the machine is [TS]

01:29:33 ◼   ► launched and they're usually very [TS]

01:29:35 ◼   ► expensive because they're like custom [TS]

01:29:37 ◼   ► stuff from OWCA or something like that [TS]

01:29:38 ◼   ► so like if you can at all [TS]

01:29:41 ◼   ► order your computer with the disk base [TS]

01:29:43 ◼   ► you need up front do it and and [TS]

01:29:45 ◼   ► otherwise consider external expansion [TS]

01:29:47 ◼   ► because internal upgrades down the road [TS]

01:29:50 ◼   ► are just getting less and less likely to [TS]

01:29:52 ◼   ► be possible or affordable so the secure [TS]

01:29:55 ◼   ► boot stuff cable did a bunch of tweets [TS]

01:29:57 ◼   ► about it because he got one too right do [TS]

01:29:59 ◼   ► you know that he's in the developer who [TS]

01:30:00 ◼   ► got a review unit oh yeah that's right [TS]

01:30:02 ◼   ► he didn't just get a call he actually [TS]

01:30:03 ◼   ► kind of computer which is cool so he did [TS]

01:30:05 ◼   ► a bunch of tweets about it one of them [TS]

01:30:06 ◼   ► was a screenshot of a new I guess it's [TS]

01:30:09 ◼   ► an app called startup security utility [TS]

01:30:12 ◼   ► and it's where you can enable and [TS]

01:30:14 ◼   ► disable the firmware password but it [TS]

01:30:15 ◼   ► also has two little sets of radio [TS]

01:30:17 ◼   ► buttons one called secure boot and the [TS]

01:30:19 ◼   ► options are full security which I don't [TS]

01:30:22 ◼   ► know what the defaults are but the full [TS]

01:30:23 ◼   ► security ensures that only the latest [TS]

01:30:25 ◼   ► and most secure software can be run and [TS]

01:30:27 ◼   ► this mode requires a network connection [TS]

01:30:28 ◼   ► that software installation time I'm a [TS]

01:30:30 ◼   ► little bit confused about the details of [TS]

01:30:32 ◼   ► that because ensures that only the [TS]

01:30:34 ◼   ► latest and most secure software or does [TS]

01:30:35 ◼   ► that mean like if it's not the latest [TS]

01:30:36 ◼   ► software it won't boot it but it will [TS]

01:30:37 ◼   ► force you to do an update before leaving [TS]

01:30:39 ◼   ► boot I don't know anyway medium is a [TS]

01:30:41 ◼   ► carry requires verifiable software out [TS]

01:30:43 ◼   ► of boot but not the latest software so [TS]

01:30:45 ◼   ► you can just keep using your old OS and [TS]

01:30:46 ◼   ► no security does not enforce any [TS]

01:30:49 ◼   ► requirement so all of our max now fall [TS]

01:30:51 ◼   ► under the category as far as secure boot [TS]

01:30:53 ◼   ► is concerned of no security like if the [TS]

01:30:57 ◼   ► if [TS]

01:30:58 ◼   ► there's an interesting name for what [TS]

01:30:59 ◼   ► Apple thinks of this thing if you plug [TS]

01:31:01 ◼   ► in a drive that has an OS that can boot [TS]

01:31:03 ◼   ► your machine it will boot right it [TS]

01:31:05 ◼   ► doesn't do any verification that that [TS]

01:31:07 ◼   ► operating system is like completely [TS]

01:31:08 ◼   ► valid and hasn't been rooted and it sure [TS]

01:31:10 ◼   ► doesn't care if it's the latest version [TS]

01:31:11 ◼   ► you know you can whatever like my 2008 [TS]

01:31:14 ◼   ► Mac Pro what did it ship with it a ship [TS]

01:31:17 ◼   ► with Snow Leopard maybe before that [TS]

01:31:19 ◼   ► maybe it shipped with Leopard [TS]

01:31:20 ◼   ► yeah I think it shipped with Leopard [TS]

01:31:21 ◼   ► it'll boot Leopard right now it doesn't [TS]

01:31:23 ◼   ► care that Leopard is ancient like so [TS]

01:31:25 ◼   ► that's what Apple considers no security [TS]

01:31:26 ◼   ► and there's also an option for external [TS]

01:31:28 ◼   ► boot and you can select disallow booting [TS]

01:31:31 ◼   ► from external media which is pretty [TS]

01:31:33 ◼   ► straightforward it's like oh you messed [TS]

01:31:35 ◼   ► up your computer you want to boot from [TS]

01:31:36 ◼   ► another disk to try to save it [TS]

01:31:38 ◼   ► nope not if you have this thing set or [TS]

01:31:40 ◼   ► the option to allow booting from [TS]

01:31:41 ◼   ► external me so a lot of the t2 stuff is [TS]

01:31:44 ◼   ► like you know you can make your iMac [TS]

01:31:46 ◼   ► much more like an iPhone or if you [TS]

01:31:49 ◼   ► change these settings it can just be [TS]

01:31:51 ◼   ► like a normal Mac has always been no [TS]

01:31:52 ◼   ► it's clear that direction Apple wants [TS]

01:31:54 ◼   ► you to go in the top items and all these [TS]

01:31:56 ◼   ► radio buttons are the the most secure [TS]

01:31:58 ◼   ► ones but there's an interesting techno [TS]

01:32:02 ◼   ► to help article that I'll put a link to [TS]

01:32:04 ◼   ► that like what do you do if you have [TS]

01:32:06 ◼   ► your iMac Pro set to the most secure [TS]

01:32:09 ◼   ► settings and you screw it up the [TS]

01:32:11 ◼   ► recovery procedure kind of like the [TS]

01:32:13 ◼   ► recovery procedure when you like screw [TS]

01:32:15 ◼   ► up your phone and you know to sort of go [TS]

01:32:17 ◼   ► into DFU mode or whatever the recovery [TS]

01:32:18 ◼   ► procedure for your iMac pro requires you [TS]

01:32:21 ◼   ► to have another Mac Pro and if you think [TS]

01:32:27 ◼   ► about it's like look you know you always [TS]

01:32:29 ◼   ► need some other thing to plug your thing [TS]

01:32:31 ◼   ► into like when you put your phone in DFU [TS]

01:32:33 ◼   ► mode if you don't literally have any [TS]

01:32:34 ◼   ► other hardware it just sits there [TS]

01:32:36 ◼   ► staring at you it's nothing you need [TS]

01:32:38 ◼   ► some other device to connect to do in [TS]

01:32:40 ◼   ► the case of the Mac Pro what you need to [TS]

01:32:41 ◼   ► connect to do it would be kind of neat [TS]

01:32:42 ◼   ► of you connected to an iPhone to recover [TS]

01:32:44 ◼   ► it like it would download from the [TS]

01:32:45 ◼   ► internet the OS update and funnel it [TS]

01:32:47 ◼   ► through but anyway this is the brave new [TS]

01:32:49 ◼   ► world security the whole point of all [TS]

01:32:51 ◼   ► the secure boot software so that your [TS]

01:32:54 ◼   ► computer could verify that it is running [TS]

01:32:56 ◼   ► like you know clean software software [TS]

01:33:00 ◼   ► the you know this sort of chain of trust [TS]

01:33:02 ◼   ► that each thing in the chain verifies [TS]

01:33:03 ◼   ► the next thing what was it at cable had [TS]

01:33:05 ◼   ► a good tweet about it [TS]

01:33:07 ◼   ► the new chip means that storage [TS]

01:33:09 ◼   ► encryption keys pass from the secure [TS]

01:33:10 ◼   ► Enclave to the [TS]

01:33:12 ◼   ► our encryption engine unship yukine [TS]

01:33:13 ◼   ► never leaves the chip and allows the [TS]

01:33:15 ◼   ► hardware verification of the OS the [TS]

01:33:16 ◼   ► kernel the bootloader firmware etc and [TS]

01:33:18 ◼   ► each each component in turn verifies the [TS]

01:33:21 ◼   ► neck so it's a chain of trust starting [TS]

01:33:23 ◼   ► with the secure Enclave essentially so [TS]

01:33:25 ◼   ► that each thing each thing that runs [TS]

01:33:29 ◼   ► next knows that it is being kicked off [TS]

01:33:31 ◼   ► from something that is secure and it's [TS]

01:33:33 ◼   ► the way the phone security works and [TS]

01:33:34 ◼   ► it's the way this security works and [TS]

01:33:35 ◼   ► it's you know it's not like it's [TS]

01:33:37 ◼   ► foolproof [TS]

01:33:38 ◼   ► like any security thing if there's the [TS]

01:33:39 ◼   ► flaw it can be exploited to get in [TS]

01:33:41 ◼   ► that's how jailbreak Savoy's work like [TS]

01:33:43 ◼   ► you know it's not impenetrable but it is [TS]

01:33:45 ◼   ► a far cry from the world of all the [TS]

01:33:46 ◼   ► Mac's that we're sitting in front of now [TS]

01:33:48 ◼   ► which is like la dee da ba boot whatever [TS]

01:33:50 ◼   ► the heck you give them they have no idea [TS]

01:33:51 ◼   ► if your operating system has been you [TS]

01:33:53 ◼   ► know root kitted or whatever they have [TS]

01:33:56 ◼   ► no idea how new it is when they're [TS]

01:33:58 ◼   ► booting and this iMac changes all that I [TS]

01:34:01 ◼   ► wonder a little bit like you know one of [TS]

01:34:04 ◼   ► the problems that I have with High [TS]

01:34:05 ◼   ► Sierra is that it's it's pretty buggy [TS]

01:34:07 ◼   ► still but yet Apple is really pushing it [TS]

01:34:09 ◼   ► heavily through like the auto-update [TS]

01:34:10 ◼   ► mechanism and stuff like that the the [TS]

01:34:13 ◼   ► idea that like you know to have the the [TS]

01:34:15 ◼   ► best security you should be running the [TS]

01:34:17 ◼   ► latest OS is often true but not always [TS]

01:34:20 ◼   ► true and sometimes we're running the [TS]

01:34:22 ◼   ► latest OS has other downsides like [TS]

01:34:24 ◼   ► certain things that are that are still [TS]

01:34:26 ◼   ► broken or two different or that break [TS]

01:34:28 ◼   ► your workflow like you know dropping [TS]

01:34:29 ◼   ► support for some old app that you use [TS]

01:34:30 ◼   ► something like that I wonder like how [TS]

01:34:32 ◼   ► this mechanism will be useful in [TS]

01:34:34 ◼   ► practice if you want to still use the [TS]

01:34:37 ◼   ► old OS for a while because the new one [TS]

01:34:39 ◼   ► isn't good enough yet or doesn't support [TS]

01:34:40 ◼   ► the things you need to support yet is [TS]

01:34:42 ◼   ► this going to force you to upgrade [TS]

01:34:43 ◼   ► unless you turn down your security to [TS]

01:34:45 ◼   ► the medium level I guess yeah you have [TS]

01:34:47 ◼   ► to change down to medium security which [TS]

01:34:49 ◼   ► you know it's like they're loaded terms [TS]

01:34:50 ◼   ► full versus medium but for exactly the [TS]

01:34:52 ◼   ► reasons you stated it's great that they [TS]

01:34:54 ◼   ► give you these options I think you don't [TS]

01:34:55 ◼   ► have to go to no security unlike for [TS]

01:34:57 ◼   ► example what is it [TS]

01:34:59 ◼   ► was the thing on the Mac called the ice [TS]

01:35:02 ◼   ► the thing that protects all your like [TS]

01:35:04 ◼   ► system files system integrity protection [TS]

01:35:06 ◼   ► s IP yeah there we go sip that you could [TS]

01:35:10 ◼   ► if you need that on or off and maybe [TS]

01:35:12 ◼   ► there's some develop remote that's kind [TS]

01:35:14 ◼   ► of in between you there but very often [TS]

01:35:15 ◼   ► it's like look to use this fancy piece [TS]

01:35:19 ◼   ► of software you have to disable system [TS]

01:35:22 ◼   ► integrity protection and even I who am [TS]

01:35:23 ◼   ► willing to hack there man [TS]

01:35:25 ◼   ► a little bit almost like ma'am really [TS]

01:35:27 ◼   ► makes me rethink whether I want a [TS]

01:35:29 ◼   ► completely disabled system integrity [TS]

01:35:30 ◼   ► Riggins I like the protection the [TS]

01:35:32 ◼   ► additional protection and it provides [TS]

01:35:35 ◼   ► additionally protection from myself [TS]

01:35:37 ◼   ► screwing up my own computer by modifying [TS]

01:35:39 ◼   ► system files which I you know I've done [TS]

01:35:41 ◼   ► in the past right so it makes me think [TS]

01:35:43 ◼   ► twice about doing having medium security [TS]

01:35:45 ◼   ► where it requires verifiable software at [TS]

01:35:47 ◼   ► a boot meaning that it verifies that [TS]

01:35:49 ◼   ► like this is these are legit copies of [TS]

01:35:51 ◼   ► everything the bootloader the kernel all [TS]

01:35:53 ◼   ► you know everything else but does not [TS]

01:35:55 ◼   ► require you to have the latest software [TS]

01:35:56 ◼   ► that's the mode that I think is most [TS]

01:35:59 ◼   ► appealing maybe all the time but [TS]

01:36:01 ◼   ► certainly when a new release comes out [TS]

01:36:02 ◼   ► because you like if the Machine [TS]

01:36:04 ◼   ► literally will refuse to boot until it [TS]

01:36:05 ◼   ► updates itself that is a behavior that I [TS]

01:36:08 ◼   ► think Pro customers will not appreciate [TS]

01:36:11 ◼   ► so again I have no idea what the default [TS]

01:36:13 ◼   ► is but remember you know if you get one [TS]

01:36:15 ◼   ► of these machines remember to use this [TS]

01:36:16 ◼   ► utility and pick the option that makes [TS]

01:36:18 ◼   ► the most sense for you I mean even if [TS]

01:36:22 ◼   ► only like if it refused to boot until it [TS]

01:36:23 ◼   ► had the latest and it literally had to [TS]

01:36:25 ◼   ► run the software update the High Sierra [TS]

01:36:26 ◼   ► for all you know that is like causing [TS]

01:36:28 ◼   ► the latest version of Adobe Creative [TS]

01:36:30 ◼   ► Suite not to launch right like you know [TS]

01:36:33 ◼   ► if you're Pro machine that you used to [TS]

01:36:35 ◼   ► do work every day you come in one [TS]

01:36:37 ◼   ► morning to try to do work and it's like [TS]

01:36:38 ◼   ► oh I won't even boot until I update [TS]

01:36:40 ◼   ► myself and then after it boots this [TS]

01:36:43 ◼   ► application that you use on this all day [TS]

01:36:45 ◼   ► doesn't launch anymore because it's not [TS]

01:36:46 ◼   ► yet compatible that's not a great [TS]

01:36:48 ◼   ► experience so medium security sounds [TS]

01:36:52 ◼   ► like a good compromise for most people [TS]

01:36:54 ◼   ► and disallow booting from external media [TS]

01:36:56 ◼   ► like are you an environment where a [TS]

01:36:58 ◼   ► physical security is actually that [TS]

01:37:00 ◼   ► important to you or do you want the [TS]

01:37:01 ◼   ► option of saving your own but if you [TS]

01:37:02 ◼   ► screw something up by plugging in an [TS]

01:37:04 ◼   ► external drive I feel like I would leave [TS]

01:37:05 ◼   ► that on allow booting from external [TS]

01:37:07 ◼   ► media but everyone's secured exposure [TS]

01:37:10 ◼   ► and environment is different maybe [TS]

01:37:11 ◼   ► you're working on the next Star Wars [TS]

01:37:14 ◼   ► movie and it's really important that if [TS]

01:37:16 ◼   ► someone breaks into the office they [TS]

01:37:18 ◼   ► would have a really difficult time [TS]

01:37:20 ◼   ► getting your computer to boot from their [TS]

01:37:22 ◼   ► external drive and target disk mode so [TS]

01:37:24 ◼   ► they could copy all your precious files [TS]

01:37:25 ◼   ► off of it [TS]

01:37:25 ◼   ► alright and then a couple other just [TS]

01:37:28 ◼   ► little tidbits that I asked about or a [TS]

01:37:30 ◼   ► little bits of information I've picked [TS]

01:37:31 ◼   ► up since then [TS]

01:37:32 ◼   ► the quick thing the PCI Express layout I [TS]

01:37:35 ◼   ► know this sounds really boring trust me [TS]

01:37:37 ◼   ► there's a reason I'm saying it [TS]

01:37:38 ◼   ► it has the GPU running on 16 lanes it [TS]

01:37:43 ◼   ► has two Thunderbolt controllers running [TS]

01:37:44 ◼   ► on four lanes each so eight total and [TS]

01:37:46 ◼   ► the 10 gig Ethernet port runs on four [TS]

01:37:48 ◼   ► lanes all those directions the CPU [TS]

01:37:50 ◼   ► everything else including the t2 is done [TS]

01:37:52 ◼   ► through the DMI which goes to what used [TS]

01:37:56 ◼   ► to be called the Southbridge I think I [TS]

01:37:58 ◼   ► don't know if Intel still calls it the [TS]

01:37:59 ◼   ► Southbridge anymore it's like the [TS]

01:38:01 ◼   ► controller on the chipset that controls [TS]

01:38:03 ◼   ► like USB and all sorts of other like you [TS]

01:38:06 ◼   ► know lower speed peripherals then like [TS]

01:38:09 ◼   ► the GPU the t2 is the largest bandwidth [TS]

01:38:14 ◼   ► consumer through that bus and the DMI [TS]

01:38:18 ◼   ► bus seems to have approximately the same [TS]

01:38:20 ◼   ► bandwidth as four PCI Express lanes and [TS]

01:38:23 ◼   ► you can see that in the in the [TS]

01:38:24 ◼   ► benchmarks of the SSD that basically the [TS]

01:38:27 ◼   ► that the SSD clearly can run with the [TS]

01:38:30 ◼   ► bandwidth of four PCI Express lanes so [TS]

01:38:32 ◼   ► that that does seem to be pretty good I [TS]

01:38:34 ◼   ► I didn't ask because I got this [TS]

01:38:36 ◼   ► information after the call so I didn't [TS]

01:38:38 ◼   ► ask why the t2 wasn't connected to one [TS]

01:38:41 ◼   ► of the CPU lanes directly because the [TS]

01:38:43 ◼   ► CPU has 48 lanes and by my account only [TS]

01:38:47 ◼   ► 28 of them are being used or at least [TS]

01:38:49 ◼   ► only 28 that I can account for but the [TS]

01:38:51 ◼   ► reason I bring this up a lot of people [TS]

01:38:53 ◼   ► look at this machine and they wonder why [TS]

01:38:56 ◼   ► do we have to pay for Zeon's why can't a [TS]

01:38:58 ◼   ► Pullip a cheap Tower that I want that [TS]

01:39:01 ◼   ► has an i7 chip in it or whatever this is [TS]

01:39:03 ◼   ► one of the reasons I said like so the [TS]

01:39:05 ◼   ► the best i7 you can get in say the [TS]

01:39:08 ◼   ► regular iMac has 16 lanes from the CPU [TS]

01:39:12 ◼   ► total this is using 28 of them this [TS]

01:39:16 ◼   ► shows you like if you drop down to one [TS]

01:39:19 ◼   ► of the consumer CPUs you would be [TS]

01:39:22 ◼   ► required to cut throughput or if it's a [TS]

01:39:25 ◼   ► cut possible bandwidth on some of these [TS]

01:39:27 ◼   ► components and maybe you won't notice [TS]

01:39:29 ◼   ► like some people argue well you can cut [TS]

01:39:31 ◼   ► a GPU down to x8 down from x16 and it's [TS]

01:39:33 ◼   ► fine [TS]

01:39:34 ◼   ► well yeah maybe it's fine but is it the [TS]

01:39:36 ◼   ► best it can be like yeah it's getting [TS]

01:39:38 ◼   ► late to John's argument like is that the [TS]

01:39:40 ◼   ► best or is it fine so it is very clear [TS]

01:39:43 ◼   ► that like they are using the throughput [TS]

01:39:46 ◼   ► of the Xeon here and one of the reasons [TS]

01:39:48 ◼   ► I was thinking about this was kind of [TS]

01:39:50 ◼   ► trying to do some research on like [TS]

01:39:52 ◼   ► do they have enough free PCI Express [TS]

01:39:54 ◼   ► Lanes coming off the CPU in a in a [TS]

01:39:58 ◼   ► theoretical Mac Pro that they could [TS]

01:40:00 ◼   ► offer multiple card slots while also [TS]

01:40:03 ◼   ► supporting more than one GPU with an x16 [TS]

01:40:07 ◼   ► connectivity Lane and the answer appears [TS]

01:40:10 ◼   ► to be yes it appears to be they can [TS]

01:40:12 ◼   ► probably offer two x16 GPUs and still [TS]

01:40:17 ◼   ► have enough lanes for other stuff but [TS]

01:40:19 ◼   ► I'm not like I don't think they would [TS]

01:40:22 ◼   ► also offer additional PCI Express slots [TS]

01:40:26 ◼   ► beyond maybe just those two and all this [TS]

01:40:30 ◼   ► was you know theoretical trying to [TS]

01:40:31 ◼   ► educate myself to make better Mac Pro [TS]

01:40:33 ◼   ► predictions and then finally I asked if [TS]

01:40:35 ◼   ► they're still remember when the when the [TS]

01:40:37 ◼   ► 5k iMac first launched at the time [TS]

01:40:40 ◼   ► Thunderbolt 2 was not powerful enough to [TS]

01:40:44 ◼   ► drive a 5k display at 60 Hertz it didn't [TS]

01:40:47 ◼   ► have enough bandwidth to drive a fico [TS]

01:40:49 ◼   ► displays at 60 Hertz and Apple made a [TS]

01:40:50 ◼   ► big deal but even during the [TS]

01:40:52 ◼   ► presentation pointing out they had [TS]

01:40:53 ◼   ► developed their own timing controller or [TS]

01:40:55 ◼   ► t-con and they had embedded that in the [TS]

01:40:57 ◼   ► iMac 2 to help drive the display by [TS]

01:41:00 ◼   ► basically multiplexing two streams [TS]

01:41:02 ◼   ► together I asked if they still do that [TS]

01:41:04 ◼   ► the answer yes so there's because I [TS]

01:41:07 ◼   ► figured like you know the now things are [TS]

01:41:08 ◼   ► faster maybe they wouldn't need that [TS]

01:41:10 ◼   ► anymore but no they still do it so [TS]

01:41:12 ◼   ► that's useful to somebody maybe and then [TS]

01:41:16 ◼   ► finally I asked if the Apple Care [TS]

01:41:19 ◼   ► pricing is a mistake because because [TS]

01:41:23 ◼   ► whether you so that you know one of the [TS]

01:41:25 ◼   ► little flukes about Apple Care pricing [TS]

01:41:28 ◼   ► is that book keeps flat pricing for a [TS]

01:41:30 ◼   ► product family so if you look at like a [TS]

01:41:31 ◼   ► MacBook Pro the price of Apple care for [TS]

01:41:35 ◼   ► a two thousand dollar configuration of [TS]

01:41:38 ◼   ► the 15-inch MacBook Pro that's the same [TS]

01:41:40 ◼   ► price whether you get the base model or [TS]

01:41:42 ◼   ► whether you spec up all the specs and it [TS]

01:41:45 ◼   ► cost like $5,000 Apple care stays the [TS]

01:41:48 ◼   ► same price because it's just the price [TS]

01:41:49 ◼   ► that of what it is for MacBook Pro the [TS]

01:41:53 ◼   ► iMac pro is classified as an iMac for [TS]

01:41:57 ◼   ► applicator purposes and so whether you [TS]

01:42:00 ◼   ► spend literally $1300 or $13,000 [TS]

01:42:06 ◼   ► AppleCare is the same price of a hundred [TS]

01:42:09 ◼   ► and sixty nine dollars and when I when I [TS]

01:42:12 ◼   ► ordered this like it you know it shows [TS]

01:42:13 ◼   ► you like on the second page it shows [TS]

01:42:15 ◼   ► like the order screen of like you do you [TS]

01:42:16 ◼   ► want to add the applicator your I [TS]

01:42:17 ◼   ► thought it was a mistake I'm like [TS]

01:42:19 ◼   ► there's no way that like a ten thousand [TS]

01:42:21 ◼   ► dollar configuration of this computer [TS]

01:42:23 ◼   ► that Apple care is under $200 there's no [TS]

01:42:26 ◼   ► way but it turns out that is not a [TS]

01:42:29 ◼   ► mistake [TS]

01:42:29 ◼   ► that's just what it costs so this is one [TS]

01:42:32 ◼   ► of those things I I say like I buy [TS]

01:42:34 ◼   ► applique selectively based on the [TS]

01:42:36 ◼   ► economics involved in each decision I [TS]

01:42:38 ◼   ► would definitely recommend Bucky iMac [TS]

01:42:41 ◼   ► bro just because you know hey these are [TS]

01:42:44 ◼   ► really expensive parts if you ever need [TS]

01:42:45 ◼   ► to get them serviced you know I would [TS]

01:42:47 ◼   ► assume that that servicing this is going [TS]

01:42:49 ◼   ► to cost more simply because the [TS]

01:42:50 ◼   ► components are more advanced and higher [TS]

01:42:52 ◼   ► higher and and will cost more and be [TS]

01:42:54 ◼   ► that is such a cheap price for Apple [TS]

01:42:57 ◼   ► care relative to the cost of the machine [TS]

01:42:59 ◼   ► that it seems like an exceptionally good [TS]

01:43:01 ◼   ► deal in this case one thing about the [TS]

01:43:03 ◼   ► PCI Express Lanes back in the [TS]

01:43:06 ◼   ► cheesegrater days maybe all the cheese I [TS]

01:43:09 ◼   ► think they they had like one good slot [TS]

01:43:11 ◼   ► for your good card and then one slot [TS]

01:43:14 ◼   ► with like half the number of lanes but [TS]

01:43:16 ◼   ► for the purposes of in those days put [TS]

01:43:20 ◼   ► the purposes of having like a crossfire [TS]

01:43:21 ◼   ► duel GPUs for games and stuff like that [TS]

01:43:24 ◼   ► most games could get by with eight lanes [TS]

01:43:26 ◼   ► instead of sixteen so you'd put one card [TS]

01:43:28 ◼   ► in the sixteen one card in the eight but [TS]

01:43:29 ◼   ► just run them the same speed and they [TS]

01:43:31 ◼   ► would you know work or just having two [TS]

01:43:34 ◼   ► cards to have like a larger number of [TS]

01:43:35 ◼   ► monitors back before you could drive ten [TS]

01:43:37 ◼   ► thousand monitors off your laptops it [TS]

01:43:39 ◼   ► was a big deal to have two video cards [TS]

01:43:41 ◼   ► each of which could drive two monitors [TS]

01:43:42 ◼   ► and you get a big setup like that so [TS]

01:43:44 ◼   ► it's conceivable that a Mac Pro could [TS]

01:43:48 ◼   ► have one 16x slot and then a bunch of [TS]

01:43:51 ◼   ► slower slots somewhat you'd still put [TS]

01:43:53 ◼   ► cards in especially if you just want to [TS]

01:43:55 ◼   ► expand the number of monitors of you who [TS]

01:43:57 ◼   ► knows maybe you're making some weird [TS]

01:43:58 ◼   ► simulation thing that needs 15 monitors [TS]

01:43:59 ◼   ► right if you have enough slots it [TS]

01:44:02 ◼   ► doesn't matter that they're not all 16 [TS]

01:44:04 ◼   ► lanes you just need enough to drive a [TS]

01:44:05 ◼   ► monitor right so there's a lot of [TS]

01:44:08 ◼   ► flexibility I continue to think that [TS]

01:44:10 ◼   ► card slots won't be what the Mac Pro is [TS]

01:44:12 ◼   ► about but who knows like you just need a [TS]

01:44:13 ◼   ► couple of slots to make it so much [TS]

01:44:15 ◼   ► better than zero slots right and and I [TS]

01:44:18 ◼   ► would be perfectly happy if there was [TS]

01:44:19 ◼   ► only one [TS]

01:44:20 ◼   ► sixteen X slot in there and then just [TS]

01:44:22 ◼   ► you know one or two lesser ones or even [TS]

01:44:24 ◼   ► zero lesser ones because all I really [TS]

01:44:26 ◼   ► care about is the abilities upgrade the [TS]

01:44:27 ◼   ► GPU but other people other people's [TS]

01:44:29 ◼   ► mileage may vary I do wonder about slots [TS]

01:44:32 ◼   ► in the Mac Pro how has Apple [TS]

01:44:35 ◼   ► successfully entirely killed the market [TS]

01:44:38 ◼   ► for any card you can buy to stick in a [TS]

01:44:40 ◼   ► Mac I suppose not because a lot of PC [TS]

01:44:42 ◼   ► cards will still work in there or will [TS]

01:44:44 ◼   ► work and there was some you know minor [TS]

01:44:45 ◼   ► change right but it's not as if there's [TS]

01:44:48 ◼   ► tons and tons of cards being sold to Mac [TS]

01:44:51 ◼   ► users because what would they put them [TS]

01:44:52 ◼   ► in it's been many many years since Apple [TS]

01:44:54 ◼   ► has sold the computer brand new that [TS]

01:44:56 ◼   ► takes expansion cards PCI Express cards [TS]

01:45:00 ◼   ► in them so I have to imagine if you were [TS]

01:45:03 ◼   ► in the market of selling whatever cards [TS]

01:45:05 ◼   ► for whatever they go inside a Mac said [TS]

01:45:07 ◼   ► that's been a difficult market for a [TS]

01:45:09 ◼   ► while alright so you know that's that's [TS]

01:45:13 ◼   ► something to watch for I like it seems [TS]

01:45:14 ◼   ► like there's plenty of lanes to go [TS]

01:45:15 ◼   ► around it gives Apple lots of [TS]

01:45:16 ◼   ► flexibility Apple could certainly use [TS]

01:45:19 ◼   ► them all in the Mac Pro but it would not [TS]

01:45:21 ◼   ► be absolutely shocked [TS]

01:45:22 ◼   ► if it turns out that even in the biggest [TS]

01:45:24 ◼   ► beefiest configuration of Mac Pro that [TS]

01:45:27 ◼   ► was actually still a couple of lanes [TS]

01:45:28 ◼   ► left over for something well and you [TS]

01:45:30 ◼   ► know maybe the e GPU situation now we'll [TS]

01:45:33 ◼   ► keep that market alive for compute cards [TS]

01:45:37 ◼   ► and GPUs like I I don't expect that [TS]

01:45:39 ◼   ► market to come back for things like [TS]

01:45:40 ◼   ► video capture car like that that was [TS]

01:45:42 ◼   ► like one of the some of the big uses of [TS]

01:45:44 ◼   ► PCI cards in the past have been like [TS]

01:45:46 ◼   ► custom high-end video capture cards [TS]

01:45:48 ◼   ► certain raid controllers and stuff like [TS]

01:45:52 ◼   ► that like that's probably not coming [TS]

01:45:53 ◼   ► back or even like putting USB 3 in a [TS]

01:45:55 ◼   ► really old cheese grater stuff like that [TS]

01:45:57 ◼   ► like these tiny little cards that look [TS]

01:45:59 ◼   ► like they're you know embarrassingly [TS]

01:46:01 ◼   ► small like they didn't even thinking of [TS]

01:46:02 ◼   ► a card slot like this there's lots of [TS]

01:46:05 ◼   ► things that you can do in those cards [TS]

01:46:06 ◼   ► don't have to be super Mac specific [TS]

01:46:08 ◼   ► thing and again it lengthen the life of [TS]

01:46:10 ◼   ► your computer by giving an interface [TS]

01:46:12 ◼   ► that it didn't have before whatever even [TS]

01:46:14 ◼   ► like a 10 gig Ethernet card and a Mac [TS]

01:46:16 ◼   ► Pro didn't come with 10 gig Ethernet or [TS]

01:46:17 ◼   ► whatever I would guess that the the only [TS]

01:46:21 ◼   ► likely role of card slots in a new Mac [TS]

01:46:24 ◼   ► Pro is GPUs slash compute cards if they [TS]

01:46:27 ◼   ► do that I'm guessing there's a limit of [TS]

01:46:28 ◼   ► two slots if if for nothing else for [TS]

01:46:30 ◼   ► bandwidth or for just sheer size or [TS]

01:46:33 ◼   ► Apple being Apple not wanted to offer [TS]

01:46:35 ◼   ► you a ton of PCI slots cuz they view [TS]

01:46:37 ◼   ► those as unnecessary slash the past [TS]

01:46:39 ◼   ► slash of burden and all of those I think [TS]

01:46:41 ◼   ► today that that would be a reasonable [TS]

01:46:42 ◼   ► position to take as long as you can [TS]

01:46:44 ◼   ► support GPUs and compute cards I think [TS]

01:46:47 ◼   ► you're okay so Casey are you still with [TS]

01:46:50 ◼   ► us so so now now comes the final my [TS]

01:46:55 ◼   ► final thought on this for this ten [TS]

01:46:56 ◼   ► minute period so you know they call this [TS]

01:47:00 ◼   ► guy Mac Pro and John said we'll never [TS]

01:47:03 ◼   ► buy one I said I would never buy one [TS]

01:47:05 ◼   ► never recall saying like an hour ago but [TS]

01:47:08 ◼   ► but I do I think it's very very clear by [TS]

01:47:12 ◼   ► looking you know look at what this [TS]

01:47:14 ◼   ► machine actually is the only reason [TS]

01:47:17 ◼   ► that's called iMac is because it has a [TS]

01:47:19 ◼   ► closed back in a screen on the front but [TS]

01:47:21 ◼   ► by all accounts this is a Mac Pro like [TS]

01:47:26 ◼   ► the reason we're talking about it so [TS]

01:47:27 ◼   ► much the reason we're so excited the [TS]

01:47:29 ◼   ► reason it's so damn fast is because it's [TS]

01:47:31 ◼   ► a Mac Pro it's in everything but name [TS]

01:47:34 ◼   ► and shape but it isn't like even the [TS]

01:47:37 ◼   ► shape is not that different from what we [TS]

01:47:38 ◼   ► had from 2013 forward one of the reasons [TS]

01:47:41 ◼   ► I'm so happy about this is that we've [TS]

01:47:43 ◼   ► been curling for years for a Mac Pro [TS]

01:47:46 ◼   ► update well they just gave us one this [TS]

01:47:48 ◼   ► is a Mac Pro update and it isn't exactly [TS]

01:47:51 ◼   ► what everybody wants like a lot of [TS]

01:47:52 ◼   ► people still want the you know what a [TS]

01:47:53 ◼   ► what an expandable headless tower will [TS]

01:47:56 ◼   ► offer them and I might be one of these [TS]

01:47:58 ◼   ► two you know the side when it comes out [TS]

01:48:00 ◼   ► but I am just really excited about this [TS]

01:48:03 ◼   ► machine because they gave us a new Mac [TS]

01:48:05 ◼   ► Pro it's a Mac Pro period no matter what [TS]

01:48:08 ◼   ► they call it this is a Mac Pro and [TS]

01:48:11 ◼   ► that's really great I'm really excited [TS]

01:48:13 ◼   ► about that I just cannot wait to be [TS]

01:48:16 ◼   ► using a Mac Pro again even if there's an [TS]

01:48:18 ◼   ► extra letter in front of it see how [TS]

01:48:20 ◼   ► excited you are when you have to bring [TS]

01:48:22 ◼   ► it in for image retention yeah well I'm [TS]

01:48:25 ◼   ► a little worried about service issues [TS]

01:48:27 ◼   ► like like the most prosaic things like [TS]

01:48:31 ◼   ► the the guts of it all work great great [TS]

01:48:33 ◼   ► but it's like the the screen ends up [TS]

01:48:35 ◼   ► being with you know it's the all-in-one [TS]

01:48:36 ◼   ► factor like that if something goes wrong [TS]

01:48:38 ◼   ► with it even if everything else is [TS]

01:48:39 ◼   ► working fine the dull thing has to go in [TS]

01:48:41 ◼   ► so anyway and and it's been brought up [TS]

01:48:43 ◼   ► by a lot of the people and I've been [TS]

01:48:44 ◼   ► thinking about Italy too as I sit here [TS]

01:48:45 ◼   ► in front of my [TS]

01:48:46 ◼   ► nearly ten-year-old maunder that 5k [TS]

01:48:49 ◼   ► screen in iMac is great tying it to like [TS]

01:48:53 ◼   ► it's going to age much more slowly than [TS]

01:48:54 ◼   ► the internals because it's not like the [TS]

01:48:56 ◼   ► 5k screen is gonna be cutting edge [TS]

01:48:57 ◼   ► forever say a case readings come out is [TS]

01:48:59 ◼   ► like oh that's stinky 5k screen but that [TS]

01:49:01 ◼   ► 5k screaming will be a great screen for [TS]

01:49:03 ◼   ► years and years and years and years like [TS]

01:49:05 ◼   ► you could you could keep somebody it was [TS]

01:49:08 ◼   ► reliable and it kept working you're not [TS]

01:49:10 ◼   ► going to turn your nose up at that [TS]

01:49:11 ◼   ► screen anytime soon [TS]

01:49:12 ◼   ► like there is no second retina [TS]

01:49:15 ◼   ► revolution where we have another 5x [TS]

01:49:17 ◼   ► increase in resolution because there's [TS]

01:49:19 ◼   ► no benefit to that maybe HDR will start [TS]

01:49:21 ◼   ► to make it crappy but if we got all that [TS]

01:49:23 ◼   ► on the desktop have like those real OLED [TS]

01:49:25 ◼   ► black levels aw man that'd be great but [TS]

01:49:27 ◼   ► I don't that doesn't seem like it's [TS]

01:49:28 ◼   ► happening soon wait an HDR but I say [TS]

01:49:31 ◼   ► because I'm sitting in front of a [TS]

01:49:32 ◼   ► ten-year-old monitor here this monitor [TS]

01:49:33 ◼   ► is not retina it's not great the black [TS]

01:49:36 ◼   ► levels on deter atrocious but it still [TS]

01:49:38 ◼   ► looks nice like my qualifier for look [TS]

01:49:40 ◼   ► nice especially with Apple monitors [TS]

01:49:42 ◼   ► color uniformity uh and general [TS]

01:49:45 ◼   ► sharpness goes a long way right the fact [TS]

01:49:48 ◼   ► that this is still like if I make screen [TS]

01:49:50 ◼   ► entirely white I can't tell there's like [TS]

01:49:52 ◼   ► a dark splotch and a life swatch and [TS]

01:49:53 ◼   ► stuff like that no image retention as [TS]

01:49:55 ◼   ► far as I'm able to tell all the pictures [TS]

01:49:57 ◼   ► are still alive looks about as good as [TS]

01:49:59 ◼   ► the day I got it yeah it's small but you [TS]

01:50:04 ◼   ► know if I wasn't me I could have been [TS]

01:50:06 ◼   ► using this monitor but the series of [TS]

01:50:07 ◼   ► Mac's right and it kind of makes me feel [TS]

01:50:09 ◼   ► bad about I have a 27 inch Thunderbolt [TS]

01:50:13 ◼   ► Display up in the attic which granted is [TS]

01:50:15 ◼   ► an external display but because it's [TS]

01:50:17 ◼   ► like a thunderbolt weirdness I don't [TS]

01:50:18 ◼   ► have stuff to plug it into without a [TS]

01:50:20 ◼   ► dongle type adapter but I you know and [TS]

01:50:22 ◼   ► if I could have plugged that into my [TS]

01:50:23 ◼   ► current Mac and it wasn't ten years old [TS]

01:50:25 ◼   ► I would have anyway all this is to say [TS]

01:50:28 ◼   ► that for all of the iMac pros greatness [TS]

01:50:32 ◼   ► all-in-one is still an all-in-one and [TS]

01:50:33 ◼   ► it's great for what you want it to be [TS]

01:50:35 ◼   ► but the all-in-one compromises are still [TS]

01:50:37 ◼   ► there and you have to be aware of them [TS]

01:50:38 ◼   ► and no matter how awesome they make the [TS]

01:50:39 ◼   ► internals nothing changes the stripes of [TS]

01:50:42 ◼   ► and all on being an all-in-one and and [TS]

01:50:44 ◼   ► mostly I think about it because that you [TS]

01:50:47 ◼   ► know maybe I think about it because my [TS]

01:50:49 ◼   ► wife's monitoring or 5k iMac was so much [TS]

01:50:51 ◼   ► better than the thing that I sit in [TS]

01:50:52 ◼   ► front of every day I'm like man I would [TS]

01:50:54 ◼   ► love to use that as [TS]

01:50:55 ◼   ► and I know that it will never happen [TS]

01:50:57 ◼   ► when the when the guts of that 5k iMac [TS]

01:50:59 ◼   ► become old and slow I can't just use it [TS]

01:51:03 ◼   ► as a monitor for another machine which [TS]

01:51:05 ◼   ► you couldn't you couldn't do with one of [TS]

01:51:07 ◼   ► the older non red and IMAX if I recall [TS]

01:51:09 ◼   ► correctly but anyway I'm like what I'm [TS]

01:51:11 ◼   ► saying is I'm looking forward to the pro [TS]

01:51:12 ◼   ► display almost as much as the Mac Pro [TS]

01:51:15 ◼   ► yeah I really am very excited to see [TS]

01:51:19 ◼   ► what that ends up being but honestly [TS]

01:51:21 ◼   ► like if we didn't have anything any hope [TS]

01:51:25 ◼   ► of a Mac Pro coming you know if we [TS]

01:51:28 ◼   ► didn't have that that you know the [TS]

01:51:29 ◼   ► statements for Apple saying they're [TS]

01:51:31 ◼   ► working on one if this was it if this [TS]

01:51:34 ◼   ► was the only thing that was gonna be the [TS]

01:51:36 ◼   ► new Mac Pro that's not bad it would [TS]

01:51:39 ◼   ► still be amazing I would still be very [TS]

01:51:41 ◼   ► excited I would have ordered it if that [TS]

01:51:43 ◼   ► was the case I would have ordered and I [TS]

01:51:45 ◼   ► wouldn't have been too grumpy about [TS]

01:51:46 ◼   ► ordering got my grumpy I would have been [TS]

01:51:54 ◼   ► grumpy by making a Mac Pro but I [TS]

01:51:57 ◼   ► wouldn't have been that grumpy about [TS]

01:51:58 ◼   ► having to order this because I would you [TS]

01:52:00 ◼   ► know like at various times I have to [TS]

01:52:02 ◼   ► actually consider replacing my Mac Pro [TS]

01:52:04 ◼   ► with a 5k when in my darkest times and [TS]

01:52:06 ◼   ► it's clear that the 5k is not like a Mac [TS]

01:52:09 ◼   ► Pro any stretch of the imagination its [TS]

01:52:10 ◼   ► consumer CPUs it's you know like but it [TS]

01:52:14 ◼   ► would be you know at a certain point [TS]

01:52:15 ◼   ► it's a big upgrade so I would mostly be [TS]

01:52:18 ◼   ► complaining about why aren't you gonna [TS]

01:52:21 ◼   ► make a Mac Pro but then when it came to [TS]

01:52:23 ◼   ► like how have fun if you're not gonna [TS]

01:52:24 ◼   ► make a Mac Pro you're not gonna do that [TS]

01:52:26 ◼   ► thing I guess I'll settle for what you [TS]

01:52:28 ◼   ► do get in settling for the iMac Pro is a [TS]

01:52:31 ◼   ► hell of a lot better than selling for a [TS]

01:52:33 ◼   ► 5k iMac so come on I mean I admire your [TS]

01:52:37 ◼   ► enthusiasm John I really do but both of [TS]

01:52:40 ◼   ► you would be going bananas maybe not [TS]

01:52:43 ◼   ► Marco after this phone call but up until [TS]

01:52:45 ◼   ► this phone call the two of you would be [TS]

01:52:47 ◼   ► inconsolable about how this is BS [TS]

01:52:50 ◼   ► they're not taking pros seriously I want [TS]

01:52:53 ◼   ► expansion I want to be able to get [TS]

01:52:55 ◼   ► inside it that would be true but it [TS]

01:52:57 ◼   ► would be less about complaining about [TS]

01:52:58 ◼   ► specifically the matter [TS]

01:52:59 ◼   ► the iMac probably more about complaining [TS]

01:53:01 ◼   ► where is the Mac Pro and how are you you [TS]

01:53:03 ◼   ► know all the people you're abandoning [TS]

01:53:04 ◼   ► with with a few Mac Pro I mean the whole [TS]

01:53:07 ◼   ► thing they had the April but they we [TS]

01:53:08 ◼   ► don't have to do that like they they [TS]

01:53:09 ◼   ► change their mind everyone's all happy [TS]

01:53:11 ◼   ► we're just waiting patiently also like a [TS]

01:53:13 ◼   ► lot of a lot of the a lot of those ships [TS]

01:53:14 ◼   ► sail but the 2013 Mac Pro a lot like a [TS]

01:53:17 ◼   ► lot of that was like oh you can't expand [TS]

01:53:18 ◼   ► anymore they kill all the slots there [TS]

01:53:20 ◼   ► they made it really expensive like that [TS]

01:53:22 ◼   ► all happened when in 2013 so like we [TS]

01:53:24 ◼   ► would have considered that like already [TS]

01:53:25 ◼   ► a lost cause yeah and I think that was [TS]

01:53:28 ◼   ► less angry about the 2013 because I [TS]

01:53:30 ◼   ► think I am a lot of other people just [TS]

01:53:31 ◼   ► assumed okay well this is but this is [TS]

01:53:33 ◼   ► the first one this is the first trash [TS]

01:53:35 ◼   ► give him a break like they're gonna you [TS]

01:53:36 ◼   ► know the second and third generation [TS]

01:53:38 ◼   ► trash will surely be great and that was [TS]

01:53:39 ◼   ► that was that was turned out to be a [TS]

01:53:43 ◼   ► mistake but but but that's why we [TS]

01:53:44 ◼   ► weren't like oh I don't like this 2013 [TS]

01:53:46 ◼   ► crash can i I didn't buy one I said this [TS]

01:53:48 ◼   ► is not for me I'll wait for the second [TS]

01:53:50 ◼   ► or third gen you know once you couldn't [TS]

01:53:51 ◼   ► hook a retina monitor up dude how long [TS]

01:53:52 ◼   ► did we talk about that it just we made [TS]

01:53:54 ◼   ► assumptions that were not founded that [TS]

01:53:56 ◼   ► computer would be updated I hope Marko [TS]

01:53:59 ◼   ► is not correct about this Mac Pro [TS]

01:54:01 ◼   ► because honestly whatever this Mac Pro [TS]

01:54:03 ◼   ► is if you didn't do not have a 10 year [TS]

01:54:06 ◼   ► old computer like me you'd be wise to [TS]

01:54:08 ◼   ► wait for the second generation this one [TS]

01:54:10 ◼   ► but maybe you wouldn't be because if [TS]

01:54:12 ◼   ► Marco's theory is right and there never [TS]

01:54:13 ◼   ► will be a second generation this new Mac [TS]

01:54:15 ◼   ► Pro it'll be very unwise to wait for it [TS]

01:54:17 ◼   ► and you should just get an iMac Pro now [TS]

01:54:19 ◼   ► and just be happy so I don't know I I [TS]

01:54:22 ◼   ► have no choice I have to get the Mac Pro [TS]

01:54:24 ◼   ► and it comes out it's just it's just [TS]

01:54:25 ◼   ► been too darn long but I worry about it [TS]

01:54:28 ◼   ► being a one-and-done [TS]

01:54:29 ◼   ► computer because that's not what I want [TS]

01:54:31 ◼   ► from it well but I mean at least if it [TS]

01:54:33 ◼   ► is you'll have 10 more years if it [TS]

01:54:36 ◼   ► doesn't have over getting GPUs or some [TS]

01:54:38 ◼   ► other weird thing is gonna be an octagon [TS]

01:54:41 ◼   ► and it'll spin this thing a rotating [TS]

01:54:46 ◼   ► restaurant [TS]

01:54:48 ◼   ► alright thanks to our sponsors this week [TS]

01:54:51 ◼   ► Squarespace Backblaze and aftershocks I [TS]

01:54:53 ◼   ► will see you next week [TS]

01:54:57 ◼   ► now the show is over they didn't even [TS]

01:55:01 ◼   ► mean to begin cuz it was accidental [TS]

01:55:04 ◼   ► oh it was accidental johnny research [TS]

01:55:10 ◼   ► Marco and Casey wouldn't let him cuz it [TS]

01:55:13 ◼   ► was accidentally was accidental you can [TS]

01:55:19 ◼   ► find the show notes at a CAS URL is esta [TS]

01:55:33 ◼   ► that's Casey less ma RC o AR m and T [TS]

01:55:38 ◼   ► Marco Arment SI r AC Syracuse [TS]

01:55:57 ◼   ► so how is it talking to Apple it was [TS]

01:56:01 ◼   ► pretty cool I hear you know all the [TS]

01:56:03 ◼   ► things you said I've been here I just [TS]

01:56:05 ◼   ► didn't have anything to add but that's [TS]

01:56:07 ◼   ► got to be pretty neat oh yeah it was it [TS]

01:56:11 ◼   ► was mostly it was just like you know an [TS]

01:56:13 ◼   ► honor that they decided to take their [TS]

01:56:15 ◼   ► time to talk to me you know like it you [TS]

01:56:18 ◼   ► know I wasn't talking like Tim but I was [TS]

01:56:20 ◼   ► talking to people who matter and Apple [TS]

01:56:22 ◼   ► who have bit busy things that they could [TS]

01:56:24 ◼   ► be doing like you know like these [TS]

01:56:26 ◼   ► schedules and in the middle of this [TS]

01:56:27 ◼   ► launch they have to talk to a lot of [TS]

01:56:29 ◼   ► people and they decided to talk to me [TS]

01:56:31 ◼   ► for like an hour [TS]

01:56:32 ◼   ► did you ask them one year if you unit [TS]

01:56:34 ◼   ► would arrive no I I did not I did not [TS]

01:56:37 ◼   ► presume that I'm getting a review in it [TS]