Under the Radar

00:00:00 ◼   ► welcome to under the radar a show but

00:00:02 ◼   ► independent iOS app development I'm

00:00:03 ◼   ► Marco Arment and I'm David Smith under

00:00:05 ◼   ► the radar is never longer than 30

00:00:07 ◼   ► minutes so let's get started so today I

00:00:09 ◼   ► wanted to talk about designing for

00:00:11 ◼   ► misuse and and maybe abuse - and maybe

00:00:15 ◼   ► some malicious use but you know just

00:00:16 ◼   ► general categories of misuse of people

00:00:19 ◼   ► trying to use your apps either

00:00:21 ◼   ► maliciously or in ways that you didn't

00:00:23 ◼   ► intend or consider when you design them

00:00:26 ◼   ► and kind of how you can deal with that

00:00:28 ◼   ► and how you can mitigate or minimize the

00:00:30 ◼   ► the negative effects of that I mean so

00:00:34 ◼   ► you you have a number of apps I'm

00:00:36 ◼   ► thinking of things like my recipe book

00:00:37 ◼   ► or audiobooks even where like somebody

00:00:41 ◼   ► could potentially get a ton of data in

00:00:44 ◼   ► there like a ton of Records or like a

00:00:46 ◼   ► ton of audiobooks or stuff like that

00:00:48 ◼   ► like like do you when you design things

00:00:50 ◼   ► do you account for like very very heavy

00:00:53 ◼   ► users who might be using the app to do

00:00:56 ◼   ► or store way more than you designed it

00:00:59 ◼   ► for I it's something i've definitely

00:01:02 ◼   ► didn't do or what initially and had

00:01:05 ◼   ► since have to had to learn a lot of

00:01:07 ◼   ► lessons about doing like in preparation

00:01:09 ◼   ► of this episode i took a look in my

00:01:11 ◼   ► recipe sink system and i found I was

00:01:14 ◼   ► like wonder how many recipes the biggest

00:01:16 ◼   ► users have and the biggest user has 13

00:01:19 ◼   ► thousand recipes like god in their in

00:01:24 ◼   ► their sink account and they use the app

00:01:27 ◼   ► how I also checked how often like are

00:01:28 ◼   ► they actually still using it and it's

00:01:30 ◼   ► like their last their the data their

00:01:32 ◼   ► last one yesterday so they are still

00:01:35 ◼   ► using it with 13 thousand recipes and I

00:01:37 ◼   ► did not in any way design the app to

00:01:39 ◼   ► scale for two thirteen thousand recipes

00:01:41 ◼   ► so it's something that I've had to learn

00:01:43 ◼   ► and I'll get the support requests from

00:01:45 ◼   ► people who are like why won't it just

00:01:46 ◼   ► like you know the sink seems really slow

00:01:49 ◼   ► and I go and check their account and

00:01:51 ◼   ► they have even if not the 13 thousand

00:01:53 ◼   ► but even like two or three thousand

00:01:55 ◼   ► recipes and I'm like yeah that's that's

00:01:58 ◼   ► gonna be tough on an iPad 2 - so just

00:02:01 ◼   ► move that amount of data around and

00:02:03 ◼   ► quickly search it and things that I mean

00:02:05 ◼   ► the numbers aren't massive in and of

00:02:07 ◼   ► themselves but I think like you're

00:02:09 ◼   ► saying it's you have to design your app

00:02:12 ◼   ► and be adaptive to it

00:02:13 ◼   ► in that way or otherwise the things just

00:02:15 ◼   ► fall down horribly because like your apt

00:02:20 ◼   ► if your app doesn't you know sort of

00:02:22 ◼   ► scale well or gracefully it's gonna kind

00:02:25 ◼   ► of fall apart and so now when I'm doing

00:02:27 ◼   ► these kinds of things I always have to

00:02:28 ◼   ► think in the back of my mind like how

00:02:30 ◼   ► this it's not even how many how many

00:02:33 ◼   ► records or how many entries could

00:02:34 ◼   ► someone reasonably have it's like how

00:02:36 ◼   ► many records could someone unreasonably

00:02:39 ◼   ► have what is what like what's the limit

00:02:42 ◼   ► here beyond which it would be completely

00:02:44 ◼   ► impractical for them to even get there

00:02:46 ◼   ► and it's also probably worth saying like

00:02:48 ◼   ► that person who has 13 thousand recipes

00:02:51 ◼   ► like they've been at inter entering into

00:02:53 ◼   ► the system into the system for the think

00:02:55 ◼   ► three years now like they've been using

00:02:57 ◼   ► the app for three years and so even like

00:03:01 ◼   ► you have to keep in mind that you things

00:03:03 ◼   ► will just gradually grow and extend over

00:03:05 ◼   ► time that it's not even just oh

00:03:08 ◼   ► someone's being silly and just like

00:03:10 ◼   ► creating a million entries in my system

00:03:11 ◼   ► it's like no they could just use it a

00:03:13 ◼   ► lot and over the course of several years

00:03:16 ◼   ► because hopefully your app will be

00:03:18 ◼   ► around for several years it'll get to a

00:03:20 ◼   ► point that things are way beyond what

00:03:22 ◼   ► you may have originally thought or

00:03:24 ◼   ► expected oh yeah I mean like you know

00:03:27 ◼   ► and this isn't that unreasonable of a

00:03:30 ◼   ► thing to I could from the user point of

00:03:32 ◼   ► view like you might you might think as a

00:03:34 ◼   ► user oh I'm using everything as design

00:03:36 ◼   ► but like there there's probably like one

00:03:37 ◼   ► or two things in your in your setup

00:03:40 ◼   ► either the apps you use or maybe like a

00:03:42 ◼   ► giant folder on your computer or some

00:03:44 ◼   ► giant database you have like oh I happen

00:03:46 ◼   ► to have I happen to be a Musical actor

00:03:48 ◼   ► and have like a hundred thousand mp3s or

00:03:50 ◼   ► happen to have a lot of photos or

00:03:51 ◼   ► whatever else like almost everybody has

00:03:53 ◼   ► the extremes of something you know like

00:03:55 ◼   ► like we like I our friend Merlin man

00:03:57 ◼   ► over it back to work has often talked

00:03:59 ◼   ► about his trouble finding Dropbox text

00:04:01 ◼   ► file markdown editors because like that

00:04:03 ◼   ► whole category of app so there's a

00:04:04 ◼   ► million of on the app store to edit

00:04:06 ◼   ► Dropbox note text files because he has

00:04:09 ◼   ► like thousands of them because he uses

00:04:10 ◼   ► them in all sorts of ways that a lot of

00:04:12 ◼   ► people don't consider or don't think of

00:04:13 ◼   ► and a lot of times like he try out a new

00:04:16 ◼   ► app and it'll just crash or it'll be a

00:04:19 ◼   ► searching will be impossibly slow or

00:04:21 ◼   ► something you know this this happens a

00:04:22 ◼   ► lot like almost everybody has like one

00:04:24 ◼   ► thing where they are pushing the bounds

00:04:26 ◼   ► on like I have

00:04:27 ◼   ► with overcast I have users that first

00:04:31 ◼   ► started reporting like slow sync issues

00:04:33 ◼   ► and I would get I dig in with them and I

00:04:36 ◼   ► find out that they would have like 150

00:04:38 ◼   ► podcast subscriptions and so most people

00:04:41 ◼   ► have trouble keeping up with 3 to 5

00:04:43 ◼   ► podcasts every week and this guy has 150

00:04:46 ◼   ► but he's using them you know he's using

00:04:49 ◼   ► the app like I'm not gonna like that's

00:04:50 ◼   ► that's that's the you know that's these

00:04:52 ◼   ► people's prerogative if they want to use

00:04:53 ◼   ► the app that way if it's not like

00:04:54 ◼   ► malicious against you in any way what's

00:04:56 ◼   ► the problem so you know you have to

00:04:58 ◼   ► design for these kind of extremes and

00:04:59 ◼   ► yet to test for them like you'd be

00:05:02 ◼   ► surprised like how how how quickly

00:05:04 ◼   ► either your app or your server the

00:05:07 ◼   ► server side process if you're syncing

00:05:09 ◼   ► them to a server or dealing with server

00:05:10 ◼   ► anyway how quickly you can hit memory

00:05:12 ◼   ► limits because like a lot of these like

00:05:14 ◼   ► like you know my back-end is all PHP and

00:05:15 ◼   ► yes make fun of it as much as you want

00:05:17 ◼   ► but almost every language that has on

00:05:18 ◼   ► the server side some kind of memory

00:05:20 ◼   ► limit that you can configure often it's

00:05:22 ◼   ► set by default to something you know

00:05:24 ◼   ► right in like the hundreds of megabytes

00:05:26 ◼   ► usually at most so you know you might

00:05:28 ◼   ► have like a PHP process might be able to

00:05:30 ◼   ► max out it like 32 Meg's or 128 Meg's

00:05:34 ◼   ► something in that range well if somebody

00:05:35 ◼   ► has like 10,000 items that you're trying

00:05:37 ◼   ► to sync and the server is trying to deal

00:05:38 ◼   ► with that you actually might hit that

00:05:40 ◼   ► like depending on the design of your

00:05:41 ◼   ► system

00:05:42 ◼   ► similarly on I on iOS like if you're

00:05:45 ◼   ► trying to read all those records into

00:05:46 ◼   ► memory to do some kind of batch

00:05:47 ◼   ► operation or some kind of inefficient

00:05:50 ◼   ► counting or something like that if

00:05:52 ◼   ► you're if you have your own custom data

00:05:54 ◼   ► interaction layer here and you are

00:05:57 ◼   ► dealing with 10,000 records 100,000

00:05:59 ◼   ► records and an app that you designed to

00:06:00 ◼   ► have a few hundred records you might

00:06:02 ◼   ► blow the memory limit on the iOS device

00:06:04 ◼   ► and the app might get killed or crash so

00:06:06 ◼   ► this is you know this is pretty pretty

00:06:08 ◼   ► important stuff to at least deal with

00:06:10 ◼   ► gracefully or as gracefully as you can

00:06:12 ◼   ► you know your app should at least not

00:06:14 ◼   ► crash you know if a heavy user uses it

00:06:16 ◼   ► and so you should be as much as much as

00:06:18 ◼   ► it's possible to you should be testing

00:06:20 ◼   ► for this like if you have an app with

00:06:22 ◼   ► any kind of user login system have a

00:06:24 ◼   ► user that has you know way more content

00:06:28 ◼   ► or data or records then you think is

00:06:30 ◼   ► normal or that you even think anybody

00:06:32 ◼   ► would ever have you know like I like

00:06:34 ◼   ► during the velopment of breadth of

00:06:35 ◼   ► vesper our friend Brent Simmons was was

00:06:39 ◼   ► blogging here and there about how like

00:06:40 ◼   ► they had

00:06:41 ◼   ► they had a test data that was like

00:06:43 ◼   ► thousands of notes and they knew that

00:06:44 ◼   ► almost nobody would ever take thousands

00:06:46 ◼   ► and thousands of notes but they wanted

00:06:48 ◼   ► to make sure the app worked well and

00:06:51 ◼   ► didn't crash and hopefully was fast and

00:06:53 ◼   ► was still actually good and functional

00:06:54 ◼   ► with way more data than they expected so

00:06:58 ◼   ► like you know first first priority don't

00:07:01 ◼   ► break you know don't crash don't make

00:07:03 ◼   ► the UI like break in weird ways like

00:07:06 ◼   ► it's like something overflowing it's

00:07:08 ◼   ► bound or rendering in the wrong spot

00:07:09 ◼   ► because like some assumption was broken

00:07:11 ◼   ► but how long something would be and and

00:07:13 ◼   ► try to not slow down

00:07:15 ◼   ► noticeably so there's many strategies

00:07:17 ◼   ► for this that it you know beyond the

00:07:19 ◼   ► scope of this episode but you know

00:07:21 ◼   ► generally you want to you know you want

00:07:22 ◼   ► to have some kind of database back in

00:07:24 ◼   ► you know not like a P list with 10,000

00:07:26 ◼   ► entries in it like you want to have some

00:07:28 ◼   ► kind of database if you use core data it

00:07:30 ◼   ► will do a lot of this for you especially

00:07:31 ◼   ► if you use like the the fetch results

00:07:33 ◼   ► controller is right because it you use

00:07:34 ◼   ► those here and there right yeah and then

00:07:36 ◼   ► they handle that's how most of this gets

00:07:38 ◼   ► done in my ABS it's like rely on

00:07:40 ◼   ► problems that were solved at a different

00:07:43 ◼   ► level like because core data was

00:07:45 ◼   ► designed to scale from like 10 records

00:07:49 ◼   ► to ten thousand or ten million records

00:07:51 ◼   ► like it's intended to be able to do that

00:07:53 ◼   ► and so if you use it that way you know

00:07:56 ◼   ► it does all the nice batching for you

00:07:58 ◼   ► and only pulling in like pointers to

00:08:01 ◼   ► things rather than to hold their whole

00:08:03 ◼   ► contents initially and all that kind of

00:08:05 ◼   ► stuff like if you do it thoughtfully in

00:08:07 ◼   ► that way then you know a lot of this

00:08:09 ◼   ► work can sort of be done for you or at

00:08:11 ◼   ► least the first pass at this kind of

00:08:13 ◼   ► work can be done for you exactly so you

00:08:16 ◼   ► know generally you know don't break

00:08:18 ◼   ► under heavy usage like this if you can

00:08:20 ◼   ► help it and then try it to slow down and

00:08:22 ◼   ► so you know use this as appropriate make

00:08:24 ◼   ► sure you know watch your memory limits

00:08:25 ◼   ► it helps to like you know if you can run

00:08:27 ◼   ► some testing where you can go into

00:08:29 ◼   ► instruments and watch memory usage of

00:08:30 ◼   ► your app and like see how it changes if

00:08:32 ◼   ► somebody has ten rows versus ten

00:08:36 ◼   ► thousand rows and you know the it should

00:08:38 ◼   ► not be going up linearly with the amount

00:08:40 ◼   ► of data that's being stored in your app

00:08:42 ◼   ► you know your your your in memory set

00:08:44 ◼   ► should not be scaling up your you know

00:08:46 ◼   ► your on disk set obviously could but you

00:08:48 ◼   ► know in memory should not so you know

00:08:51 ◼   ► beyond the technical side of making sure

00:08:53 ◼   ► it works

00:08:54 ◼   ► and you know again that's not a small

00:08:56 ◼   ► thing but if you be on the technical

00:08:58 ◼   ► side of things there are things you can

00:09:00 ◼   ► do in the design of the app to kind of

00:09:03 ◼   ► help make this manageable for people and

00:09:07 ◼   ► help help yourself out too with like the

00:09:08 ◼   ► amount of load that you're placing on

00:09:09 ◼   ► various parts of it and you know how

00:09:12 ◼   ► something might break so well I think

00:09:14 ◼   ► one of the one of the staples of iOS app

00:09:16 ◼   ► usability and design is the table view

00:09:18 ◼   ► you know the table view first of all

00:09:20 ◼   ► it's designed in such a way especially

00:09:22 ◼   ► when paired with core data or an

00:09:24 ◼   ► intelligent other layer it's designed in

00:09:25 ◼   ► such a way that it can scale

00:09:27 ◼   ► ridiculously well we know when you

00:09:28 ◼   ► combine the the way the cells are reused

00:09:31 ◼   ► and only certain amounts of data or page

00:09:33 ◼   ► in at once

00:09:33 ◼   ► combine that with like the the

00:09:35 ◼   ► estimations of cell Heights and the

00:09:38 ◼   ► estimations of sections and numbers of

00:09:40 ◼   ► things in sections and then you have

00:09:42 ◼   ► like the the like first letter on the

00:09:44 ◼   ► right side like and like in the phone

00:09:45 ◼   ► contacts app you have like the letter

00:09:46 ◼   ► jumping on the side where you can sort

00:09:48 ◼   ► and that's also by the way helpful in

00:09:50 ◼   ► different languages that you don't

00:09:51 ◼   ► support use apples please just use

00:09:53 ◼   ► apples thing and you'll be mostly okay

00:09:54 ◼   ► you know stuff like that having like

00:09:57 ◼   ► easy navigation intelligent sorting of

00:09:59 ◼   ► long lists like you know you might have

00:10:01 ◼   ► a list in your app that's sorted

00:10:02 ◼   ► chronologically if there's no way to

00:10:05 ◼   ► sort it alphabetically and somebody

00:10:07 ◼   ► might have 10,000 items that might be

00:10:09 ◼   ► problematic you know if it likes think

00:10:11 ◼   ► about like how you're how you're sorting

00:10:12 ◼   ► in your app works and if there's

00:10:14 ◼   ► anything you can do in the design the UI

00:10:16 ◼   ► design of the app to make it less

00:10:18 ◼   ► cumbersome or impossible to use for

00:10:21 ◼   ► somebody who is in your opinion grossly

00:10:23 ◼   ► over using it or grossly over filling it

00:10:26 ◼   ► because that will happen there will be

00:10:28 ◼   ► good reasons for it and you know if

00:10:30 ◼   ► possible don't break under that right

00:10:32 ◼   ► and so other things also in that and in

00:10:35 ◼   ► that category would involve Search

00:10:37 ◼   ► Search is a big one here you know any

00:10:40 ◼   ► kind of local search you can offer that

00:10:42 ◼   ► doesn't use a server is is easy first of

00:10:45 ◼   ► all almost every database supports

00:10:47 ◼   ► sequel Lite supports it you know you can

00:10:50 ◼   ► just write your own dumb one if you

00:10:51 ◼   ► really want to but please use a search

00:10:52 ◼   ► index it's much easier like using stuff

00:10:55 ◼   ► like that can really help people who

00:10:57 ◼   ► have tons and tons of of entries can

00:10:59 ◼   ► really help them find their data and use

00:11:02 ◼   ► your app and with search like you know

00:11:04 ◼   ► the way it works with like basically a

00:11:07 ◼   ► whole bunch of binary tree

00:11:08 ◼   ► and everything like you can you could

00:11:10 ◼   ► make a vast number of Records accessible

00:11:13 ◼   ► via search without a ton of work and

00:11:15 ◼   ► without a ton of CPU time being spent so

00:11:17 ◼   ► you know if there's any possibility of

00:11:20 ◼   ► somebody having a ton of data in your

00:11:22 ◼   ► app offer a search if it makes sense to

00:11:25 ◼   ► because it really does its ski it lets

00:11:28 ◼   ► your apps scale well because all of this

00:11:31 ◼   ► was really talking about app scaling

00:11:33 ◼   ► it's like you know in kind of in the in

00:11:35 ◼   ► the way that you know website scaling is

00:11:36 ◼   ► really talking about like number of

00:11:37 ◼   ► users or amount of traffic AB scaling

00:11:40 ◼   ► for one person in this case is like

00:11:42 ◼   ► talking about the amount of data they

00:11:44 ◼   ► might store in your app and what kind of

00:11:46 ◼   ► technical and organizational challenges

00:11:49 ◼   ► that will present exactly and the nice

00:11:52 ◼   ► thing too is that most of these changes

00:11:54 ◼   ► these improvements these ways of like

00:11:56 ◼   ► looking at your app at high usage

00:11:59 ◼   ► whatever that might need mean for your

00:12:01 ◼   ► app will almost always make it better

00:12:04 ◼   ► for the typical case that like you avoid

00:12:08 ◼   ► the like if your app does get Linney

00:12:11 ◼   ► linearly worse every time the user adds

00:12:14 ◼   ► a record like that's incredibly

00:12:16 ◼   ► problematic when you have 10,000 records

00:12:18 ◼   ► but it means that every single time the

00:12:21 ◼   ► user is using the app they're making it

00:12:23 ◼   ► slightly worse for themselves like

00:12:25 ◼   ► that's your discouraging use yeah like

00:12:27 ◼   ► what you want is to make sure that you

00:12:30 ◼   ► know your app scales gracefully in this

00:12:32 ◼   ► way but mostly because then that means

00:12:34 ◼   ► that it's probably gonna be a lot better

00:12:36 ◼   ► for you know your typical user like and

00:12:39 ◼   ► obviously that's nothing you want to

00:12:40 ◼   ► keep in the back of your mind that you

00:12:41 ◼   ► don't want to be making changes that are

00:12:43 ◼   ► only beneficial if you have 10,000 users

00:12:46 ◼   ► or 10,000 records because very few users

00:12:49 ◼   ► are gonna have that and so if it makes

00:12:50 ◼   ► your app way more complicated then

00:12:52 ◼   ► that's probably not good but looking at

00:12:54 ◼   ► it in these ways you get these benefits

00:12:56 ◼   ► I mean it's like you were saying with

00:12:57 ◼   ► like UI tableview is really efficient

00:12:59 ◼   ► and UI tableview is designed like for

00:13:02 ◼   ► the original iPhone like as far as I

00:13:03 ◼   ► know it's like that was built into you

00:13:05 ◼   ► know iPhone OS 1 when things were

00:13:07 ◼   ► incredibly constrained and tight and it

00:13:11 ◼   ► made the an OS you know where a lot of

00:13:13 ◼   ► things are just scrolling lists really

00:13:15 ◼   ► perform it in powerful and so then as

00:13:17 ◼   ► devices got more capable it got even

00:13:20 ◼   ► better and in the same way it's like if

00:13:22 ◼   ► you

00:13:22 ◼   ► you are designing things so that they

00:13:23 ◼   ► work when things are constrained in this

00:13:25 ◼   ► case when they were constrained by

00:13:26 ◼   ► having large numbers of things when you

00:13:29 ◼   ► aren't constrained in that way suddenly

00:13:31 ◼   ► everything's just better and faster and

00:13:33 ◼   ► in the a--probably instantaneous for

00:13:36 ◼   ► most of your users like if things only

00:13:38 ◼   ► take a few seconds for your extreme

00:13:40 ◼   ► users they're probably gonna be if you

00:13:42 ◼   ► know instantaneous or you know momentary

00:13:46 ◼   ► for your typical user and that's what

00:13:48 ◼   ► you want and like that this exercise is

00:13:51 ◼   ► helpful in that way of looking at your

00:13:53 ◼   ► app and saying well where could I make

00:13:55 ◼   ► this better like an easy obvious case

00:13:57 ◼   ► it's just to say like well let me throw

00:13:59 ◼   ► way more things into it than I need and

00:14:01 ◼   ► see where I can make it better as a

00:14:03 ◼   ► result exactly and you know and you're

00:14:06 ◼   ► like you mentioned like you know trying

00:14:07 ◼   ► to optimize for typical use you know

00:14:09 ◼   ► versus versus the the kind of extremes

00:14:11 ◼   ► and the fact is like when you're when

00:14:13 ◼   ► you're talking about adding any kind of

00:14:14 ◼   ► organizational system something like I'm

00:14:16 ◼   ► thinking like you know like like one

00:14:18 ◼   ► level of folders or tags which are

00:14:20 ◼   ► basically folders like you know one

00:14:21 ◼   ► level of organization to like abstract

00:14:24 ◼   ► something away that can go a long way

00:14:26 ◼   ► like if you have an app where people

00:14:29 ◼   ► might often have more than about you

00:14:31 ◼   ► know 20 to 50 records like they might

00:14:33 ◼   ► want some kind of way to organize that

00:14:34 ◼   ► and like having just one level of folder

00:14:38 ◼   ► hierarchy could also scale to 10,000

00:14:41 ◼   ► items fairly well like you don't have

00:14:43 ◼   ► like a little goes a long way here you

00:14:45 ◼   ► don't really have to go overboard with a

00:14:46 ◼   ► cup with accommodating for these things

00:14:47 ◼   ► in the UI because you know the the high

00:14:51 ◼   ► end users any little bit will help them

00:14:54 ◼   ► tremendously and it won't put too much

00:14:56 ◼   ► of a burden on regular users exactly and

00:14:59 ◼   ► obviously these are all like these are

00:15:00 ◼   ► the kinds of things we're talking about

00:15:01 ◼   ► are in the good case where things are

00:15:04 ◼   ► people are using your app in the way

00:15:06 ◼   ► that you intended it and just using it a

00:15:07 ◼   ► lot but obviously they also they could

00:15:09 ◼   ► talk use there could be problems that

00:15:11 ◼   ► you could run into on the malicious side

00:15:12 ◼   ► and we're about to talk about that

00:15:14 ◼   ► before we do could you tell me about

00:15:15 ◼   ► something that's awesome we are

00:15:17 ◼   ► sponsored this week by dev mate go to

00:15:19 ◼   ► dev mate dot-com slash radar to learn

00:15:22 ◼   ► more dev mate is a single SDK with a set

00:15:24 ◼   ► of advanced back-end features for Mac

00:15:27 ◼   ► developers that allows them to easily

00:15:28 ◼   ► integrate in app purchasing software

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00:15:33 ◼   ► user feedback and more

00:15:35 ◼   ► all four Mac apps without being in the

00:15:38 ◼   ► Mac App Store this is very useful stuff

00:15:40 ◼   ► if you're a Mac developer because you

00:15:41 ◼   ► don't have to handle all these things

00:15:42 ◼   ► for you know all manually for yourself

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00:15:53 ◼   ► are very excited to announce that dev

00:15:55 ◼   ► mates of rich functionality is now free

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00:15:59 ◼   ► after integration magpie use these tools

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00:16:03 ◼   ► apps include and CleanMyMac and you

00:16:05 ◼   ► can't and you can take a look at on

00:16:06 ◼   ► their site to see examples than many

00:16:08 ◼   ► other developers that also rely on dev

00:16:10 ◼   ► mate there's some big names there these

00:16:12 ◼   ► days more and more developers are eager

00:16:14 ◼   ► to sell outside the Mac App Store having

00:16:16 ◼   ► dev mate as an ultimate solution for

00:16:18 ◼   ► independent OS 10 development is a great

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00:16:22 ◼   ► right now by going to dev mate comm

00:16:24 ◼   ► slash radar once again that's dev mate

00:16:27 ◼   ► comm slash radar if you're a Mac

00:16:29 ◼   ► developer you got to check this out

00:16:30 ◼   ► thank you very much to dev mate for

00:16:32 ◼   ► sponsoring

00:16:32 ◼   ► under-the-radar and all of real EFM all

00:16:35 ◼   ► right so obviously if you you know

00:16:39 ◼   ► people are just putting lots of data in

00:16:40 ◼   ► your app like that's not really

00:16:41 ◼   ► problematic it could be problematic if

00:16:43 ◼   ► rep distance and a lit well but there's

00:16:46 ◼   ► also cases where rather than just your

00:16:48 ◼   ► users using the app and a positive like

00:16:51 ◼   ► they just love it you know like this

00:16:52 ◼   ► person just really loves baking and

00:16:54 ◼   ► wants to put 13,000 recipes in their

00:16:56 ◼   ► city and there's in in my sink system

00:16:58 ◼   ► there can also be taking cases

00:17:00 ◼   ► especially as your hep cats

00:17:02 ◼   ► attention or popular or you get

00:17:05 ◼   ► attention or become popular where people

00:17:07 ◼   ► might want to misuse your application

00:17:09 ◼   ► for whatever reason or in whatever way

00:17:11 ◼   ► and so it's kind of important that you

00:17:13 ◼   ► also think about it from those

00:17:15 ◼   ► perspectives of what's the worst that

00:17:18 ◼   ► people could do what could people be

00:17:20 ◼   ► doing with my app with my back-end you

00:17:23 ◼   ► know if someone ran like a Wireshark

00:17:25 ◼   ► application and looked at all the

00:17:27 ◼   ► network traffic between my app and my

00:17:29 ◼   ► server are there things that I wouldn't

00:17:31 ◼   ► want them to know or be able operations

00:17:34 ◼   ► that they could do that would really

00:17:36 ◼   ► hurt me and you kind of have to start

00:17:38 ◼   ► thinking through these basic security

00:17:41 ◼   ► things in order to make sure that your

00:17:42 ◼   ► app is going to be stable and worthwhile

00:17:45 ◼   ► and and also like in the same kind of

00:17:47 ◼   ► way we were saying before

00:17:49 ◼   ► if you do these things it can prevent

00:17:52 ◼   ► misuse but it also will probably make

00:17:54 ◼   ► basic use better because then your app

00:17:56 ◼   ► is more secure your users data is more

00:17:58 ◼   ► secure things are more reliable and so

00:18:01 ◼   ► it does take a bit of work and a bit of

00:18:03 ◼   ► thoughtfulness but these are things that

00:18:04 ◼   ► are kind of basic things that are

00:18:06 ◼   ► probably important if you want to get

00:18:08 ◼   ► into any kind of thing that you stores

00:18:11 ◼   ► or uses users data oh yeah and you know

00:18:13 ◼   ► like when you have any kind of you know

00:18:15 ◼   ► if you just have a local app that has no

00:18:17 ◼   ► web component that you at least that you

00:18:19 ◼   ► run but you know it if you just have a

00:18:21 ◼   ► local app there's only so much user can

00:18:23 ◼   ► do to to hurt anyone else or you using

00:18:26 ◼   ► the app but as soon as you have a

00:18:28 ◼   ► service behind it or especially like a

00:18:30 ◼   ► web interface there there are so much

00:18:33 ◼   ► that people can do that you know the

00:18:35 ◼   ► good thing is that web security is a

00:18:38 ◼   ► pretty well-known field at this point I

00:18:40 ◼   ► mean it's not solved it's not flawless

00:18:42 ◼   ► but you know the the major categories of

00:18:45 ◼   ► danger are well-known and many of them

00:18:49 ◼   ► can be avoided you know without too much

00:18:51 ◼   ► work these days because we you know

00:18:52 ◼   ► we've had a long time to work on web

00:18:53 ◼   ► security and so like you know like one

00:18:56 ◼   ► of the basics is obviously to use SSL

00:18:58 ◼   ► you know if you have any kind of API the

00:19:01 ◼   ► running over HTTP use SSL this is not

00:19:04 ◼   ► difficult these days in fact one tip

00:19:06 ◼   ► I've come across recently is so I host

00:19:09 ◼   ► all my stuff on Linode and they have

00:19:12 ◼   ► these things called node balancers we're

00:19:13 ◼   ► just like their own like kind of managed

00:19:15 ◼   ► to load balancing things for 20 bucks a

00:19:17 ◼   ► month and so I use I use node balance

00:19:20 ◼   ► here is not only for load balancing but

00:19:21 ◼   ► even when I only have one server behind

00:19:23 ◼   ► them I use the node bouncer for SSL

00:19:26 ◼   ► decryption and also to be kind of a

00:19:28 ◼   ► front-end because then the actual IP of

00:19:30 ◼   ► the machine is not you know being

00:19:32 ◼   ► directly exposed to the users and also

00:19:35 ◼   ► that is handling all the SSL decryption

00:19:37 ◼   ► for me so that and and Linode keeps

00:19:39 ◼   ► these maintaining keep C's updated so

00:19:41 ◼   ► that whenever SSL changes whenever like

00:19:44 ◼   ► people discover oh this old ciphers

00:19:45 ◼   ► actually actually has a weakness that we

00:19:47 ◼   ► did that we just learned about so nobody

00:19:48 ◼   ► should use that everyone should upgrade

00:19:50 ◼   ► to TLS one point whatever or do you know

00:19:52 ◼   ► disabled a certain cipher or anything

00:19:53 ◼   ► they do all that for you so you are

00:19:56 ◼   ► always kept on top of it you just paste

00:19:58 ◼   ► it in your certificate in your key into

00:19:59 ◼   ► their admin panel and then your server

00:20:02 ◼   ► talks regular

00:20:03 ◼   ► HTTP to the load balancer and the load

00:20:05 ◼   ► balancer to the node balancer excuse me

00:20:07 ◼   ► the node balancer then is handling all

00:20:09 ◼   ► security for you so that's I highly

00:20:10 ◼   ► recommend if you're on Linode and you

00:20:12 ◼   ► can spare another 20 bucks a month

00:20:13 ◼   ► outsource your your SSL dealing with to

00:20:16 ◼   ► a node balancer it's a lot easier and

00:20:19 ◼   ► you know but even if you do it yourself

00:20:21 ◼   ► you know just keep on top of it there's

00:20:22 ◼   ► a there's a Qualis SSL test that you can

00:20:24 ◼   ► you can kind of test your site and see

00:20:26 ◼   ► how it does on the security thing just

00:20:28 ◼   ► you know go test it every few months or

00:20:29 ◼   ► whenever you hear any news about it just

00:20:31 ◼   ► make sure you're on top of things but or

00:20:33 ◼   ► you can just outsource it like I do

00:20:34 ◼   ► excuse me

00:20:35 ◼   ► or you just outsource it and it's a no

00:20:36 ◼   ► big deal also for web pages consider

00:20:41 ◼   ► using content security policy this is a

00:20:43 ◼   ► relatively young web thing it's it's a

00:20:47 ◼   ► header you put on on repot on responses

00:20:50 ◼   ► CSP or content security policy it's a

00:20:52 ◼   ► thing that it's basically a declaration

00:20:55 ◼   ► you make in the headers that tells the

00:20:57 ◼   ► browser where from what domains and what

00:21:01 ◼   ► types of JavaScript and CSS and assets

00:21:04 ◼   ► are permitted to be loaded by this page

00:21:06 ◼   ► and what this is mostly useful for is to

00:21:10 ◼   ► eliminate a whole category of

00:21:12 ◼   ► vulnerabilities like cross-site

00:21:14 ◼   ► scripting then there's tons of

00:21:16 ◼   ► vulnerabilities that this just

00:21:17 ◼   ► completely negates for browsers that

00:21:19 ◼   ► support it and almost every modern

00:21:20 ◼   ► browser will enforce it as far as I know

00:21:22 ◼   ► so you know using content security

00:21:24 ◼   ► policy with SSL and with HSTs strict

00:21:28 ◼   ► Transport Security which will enforce

00:21:29 ◼   ► SSL for basically everything for all

00:21:32 ◼   ► modern browsers like using those things

00:21:34 ◼   ► you are way more secure than the average

00:21:37 ◼   ► service and you know Plus you know basic

00:21:39 ◼   ► server security as we talked about last

00:21:41 ◼   ► week or two weeks ago rather so that is

00:21:44 ◼   ► that will get you a huge huge part of

00:21:46 ◼   ► the way there and and I mean heck I even

00:21:50 ◼   ► in my podcast app I even have SSL

00:21:52 ◼   ► certificate pinning which is complete

00:21:54 ◼   ► overkill for a podcast app but what that

00:21:57 ◼   ► means is it makes it a lot harder for

00:21:59 ◼   ► anybody to not only snoop my traffic and

00:22:02 ◼   ► break the app that way but also for like

00:22:03 ◼   ► for you know creepy middlemen like like

00:22:06 ◼   ► when you get on airplane Wi-Fi and it

00:22:07 ◼   ► injects ads into everything you see now

00:22:09 ◼   ► or you know like it it makes it

00:22:10 ◼   ► impossible for those kind of things to

00:22:12 ◼   ► interfere with my app and will protect

00:22:13 ◼   ► me and it protects my users so it's it

00:22:16 ◼   ► these kind

00:22:16 ◼   ► things like they seem like overkill if

00:22:18 ◼   ► you're just making an app for something

00:22:19 ◼   ► basically playing podcasts but in in the

00:22:22 ◼   ► modern era this really isn't overkill

00:22:24 ◼   ► and it really isn't that hard I think

00:22:26 ◼   ► that's the important thing to like a lot

00:22:27 ◼   ► of these things like a little goes a

00:22:30 ◼   ► long way like just does all these you

00:22:33 ◼   ► know best practices and things you're

00:22:34 ◼   ► talking about if like the different

00:22:35 ◼   ► types of security and the different

00:22:37 ◼   ► approaches you can take

00:22:38 ◼   ► but doing anything is going to do a lot

00:22:42 ◼   ► just to get started with and like if

00:22:43 ◼   ► you're gonna do it fair enough do it

00:22:44 ◼   ► properly but all of these things like

00:22:47 ◼   ► any sigh if you just like you do there's

00:22:49 ◼   ► no reason to be sending anything in

00:22:51 ◼   ► plain text in like a modern app it's

00:22:54 ◼   ► just it just doesn't make sense like

00:22:56 ◼   ► maybe media maybe but in general like

00:22:59 ◼   ► you missed you just may as well like

00:23:01 ◼   ► things are it doesn't make your things

00:23:02 ◼   ► slower or a little more expensive or

00:23:04 ◼   ► those types of things like it just makes

00:23:06 ◼   ► the app better and so if you can do it

00:23:09 ◼   ► because you're just trying to minimize

00:23:10 ◼   ► the things the directions that people

00:23:12 ◼   ► can could you know be mischievous with

00:23:16 ◼   ► your application exactly so moving on

00:23:19 ◼   ► from now like direct security attacks I

00:23:21 ◼   ► want to talk a little bit about spam if

00:23:24 ◼   ► your app has any kind of user-generated

00:23:26 ◼   ► content that could potentially be

00:23:29 ◼   ► exposed to other users of the app or to

00:23:32 ◼   ► the public on your website and it's some

00:23:33 ◼   ► kind of like top ranked list or most

00:23:35 ◼   ► popular content or anything like that

00:23:38 ◼   ► that is a potential vector for spam for

00:23:41 ◼   ► people to span your site of your service

00:23:42 ◼   ► or your app in order to promote their

00:23:44 ◼   ► own stuff or deface stuff or make people

00:23:46 ◼   ► look at porn or whatever else there's

00:23:48 ◼   ► you know so anything where

00:23:50 ◼   ► user-generated content could be shown to

00:23:52 ◼   ► a larger audience of your apps users you

00:23:55 ◼   ► have to be very very careful about these

00:23:58 ◼   ► kind of things that become possible it's

00:24:02 ◼   ► you know it's one thing to just think oh

00:24:03 ◼   ► well I'm gonna make you know suppose

00:24:05 ◼   ► suppose you have like in overcast to

00:24:07 ◼   ► have a recommendations thing suppose I

00:24:08 ◼   ► would I was gonna show on the website

00:24:10 ◼   ► top recommended things which I kind of

00:24:12 ◼   ► do in the app but I'll get to that you

00:24:15 ◼   ► have to think like how could somebody

00:24:16 ◼   ► spam this in order to promote their own

00:24:19 ◼   ► thing or show inappropriate content or

00:24:22 ◼   ► something you know so somehow break it

00:24:24 ◼   ► in a way that would be valuable to them

00:24:26 ◼   ► or would you know deface the the whole

00:24:28 ◼   ► thing and make everyone look bad

00:24:29 ◼   ► and you might think oh I can just keep

00:24:31 ◼   ► on top I'll just check it every day

00:24:33 ◼   ► and I'll delete anything that looks

00:24:34 ◼   ► wrong and it'll be fine the fact is you

00:24:37 ◼   ► can't and you won't police it yourself

00:24:39 ◼   ► like you you that is unless you have a

00:24:42 ◼   ► very large dedicated staff doing this

00:24:44 ◼   ► around the clock and you know and every

00:24:46 ◼   ► different language around the world

00:24:47 ◼   ► you're probably not gonna be able to

00:24:49 ◼   ► police spam yourself hey you know you

00:24:52 ◼   ► can you can look at the big services

00:24:53 ◼   ► like like Twitter for instance where

00:24:55 ◼   ► spam is a thing and it is not a small

00:24:58 ◼   ► deal for a company like Twitter to to

00:25:02 ◼   ► try to prevent and eliminate spam as it

00:25:04 ◼   ► comes it that takes a huge staff so you

00:25:06 ◼   ► probably won't have that luxury

00:25:07 ◼   ► so my solution to this is to generally

00:25:11 ◼   ► just avoid creating mechanisms that can

00:25:13 ◼   ► be spammed so avoid creating global top

00:25:16 ◼   ► lists you know any kind of like global

00:25:18 ◼   ► rankings most popular lists I don't even

00:25:21 ◼   ► have like you can't even review podcasts

00:25:23 ◼   ► and overcast you can't like write

00:25:25 ◼   ► written user reviews that are shown to

00:25:27 ◼   ► anybody else because that's also spam

00:25:29 ◼   ► you know promotional problems like

00:25:31 ◼   ► defacing and everything legal problems

00:25:33 ◼   ► so like just if you can avoid any area

00:25:36 ◼   ► that can be spammed if you can't avoid

00:25:39 ◼   ► it try to outsource the control that

00:25:42 ◼   ► spam or the decision on whether

00:25:43 ◼   ► something is spam try to outsource that

00:25:45 ◼   ► to some other larger authority so and

00:25:48 ◼   ► I'm not I'm not talking about other spam

00:25:50 ◼   ► filters I'm not talking about like you

00:25:51 ◼   ► know a kismet or anything like that I'm

00:25:52 ◼   ► talking about outsourcing it to some

00:25:54 ◼   ► other authority that themselves would

00:25:56 ◼   ► need to have spam get through in a

00:25:59 ◼   ► significant way for it to be a problem

00:26:00 ◼   ► for you so an overcast case I use iTunes

00:26:04 ◼   ► IDs because iTunes reviews every podcast

00:26:06 ◼   ► that goes in and I have never seen spam

00:26:09 ◼   ► in the iTunes podcast directory I've

00:26:11 ◼   ► seen bad podcast but I've never actually

00:26:13 ◼   ► seen like you know what most people

00:26:14 ◼   ► consider blatant spam in there and it

00:26:18 ◼   ► also helps control like adult content

00:26:19 ◼   ► and you know stuff like that because

00:26:20 ◼   ► they also look for that so in overcast I

00:26:22 ◼   ► won't show a podcast in search results

00:26:25 ◼   ► unless I can match it to something in

00:26:26 ◼   ► the iTunes directory and if I can't

00:26:29 ◼   ► it stays private like you can still

00:26:30 ◼   ► enter it by URL but it's not going to be

00:26:32 ◼   ► shown to people who weren't looking for

00:26:33 ◼   ► it so that basically eliminates any of

00:26:35 ◼   ► any problems with spam or poor content

00:26:37 ◼   ► and then also for the recommendations

00:26:40 ◼   ► side of it I use your Twitter following

00:26:42 ◼   ► graph

00:26:43 ◼   ► so the only recommendations you will

00:26:45 ◼   ► ever see an overcast are either from

00:26:47 ◼   ► people you follow on Twitter so if

00:26:49 ◼   ► they're spamming you can unfollow them

00:26:50 ◼   ► and it's you know that's that's that's

00:26:52 ◼   ► your choice

00:26:52 ◼   ► you know so it's either from people you

00:26:54 ◼   ► have chosen to follow on Twitter or it's

00:26:56 ◼   ► from people if you don't have enough

00:26:58 ◼   ► people who you follow on Twitter it's

00:26:59 ◼   ► from people who are very popular on

00:27:01 ◼   ► Twitter who have tons and tons of

00:27:02 ◼   ► followers so the point where it would it

00:27:05 ◼   ► would be very very unlikely for any spam

00:27:08 ◼   ► to get in that way but for the most part

00:27:10 ◼   ► it's based on people you follow only and

00:27:12 ◼   ► so that way you know the combination of

00:27:14 ◼   ► that plus the iTunes ID filtering means

00:27:17 ◼   ► that it's basically impossible for this

00:27:19 ◼   ► mechanism to to show spam in a

00:27:22 ◼   ► meaningful way and so really the best

00:27:24 ◼   ► thing you can do if you have something

00:27:25 ◼   ► like this is like design it so that it

00:27:27 ◼   ► can't be spammed and if it can be

00:27:29 ◼   ► spammed outsource the authority over

00:27:31 ◼   ► what a spam to somebody big exactly and

00:27:34 ◼   ► I think it's probably a good way to like

00:27:36 ◼   ► I personally just avoid situations that

00:27:39 ◼   ► user-generated data would ever be shown

00:27:41 ◼   ► to someone else like I can't think of an

00:27:44 ◼   ► example in any of my my products where I

00:27:46 ◼   ► do that like I look at that problem and

00:27:48 ◼   ► I'm like that is big scary yes not

00:27:50 ◼   ► something I want to touch I just don't

00:27:52 ◼   ► and maybe there that means that there

00:27:54 ◼   ► are some features in my apps that I

00:27:55 ◼   ► could have that would be really cool but

00:27:57 ◼   ► I don't but I just decided that you know

00:27:59 ◼   ► what it's I'm one person I'm never going

00:28:02 ◼   ► to be able to or it's gonna be really

00:28:04 ◼   ► hard to stay on top of it so I just

00:28:06 ◼   ► don't and that's okay and I think the

00:28:08 ◼   ► important thing with like this whole

00:28:10 ◼   ► episodes discussion is when you're

00:28:13 ◼   ► thinking of that feature like when I've

00:28:14 ◼   ► December I'm deciding not to add

00:28:15 ◼   ► features that show user-generated

00:28:17 ◼   ► content to someone else like the

00:28:19 ◼   ► fundamental underlying thing that you

00:28:22 ◼   ► have to be thoughtful of is when you're

00:28:23 ◼   ► building it you have to be building it

00:28:25 ◼   ► with like what's the worst-case scenario

00:28:27 ◼   ► in mind yep that it's so easy when

00:28:30 ◼   ► you're building something to think of it

00:28:31 ◼   ► only from like the cool obvious like the

00:28:34 ◼   ► way you would use it perspective but in

00:28:37 ◼   ► order for you to have an app that is

00:28:38 ◼   ► going to be go with like good for

00:28:40 ◼   ► performance for your extreme users or

00:28:42 ◼   ► have good security and avoid kind of

00:28:44 ◼   ► user you know user-generated content

00:28:46 ◼   ► problems you have to always be building

00:28:48 ◼   ► it sort of with the worst case in mind

00:28:50 ◼   ► and that can be the worst case person

00:28:52 ◼   ► the worst case user the worst case

00:28:54 ◼   ► device the worst case Network whatever

00:28:56 ◼   ► it is

00:28:57 ◼   ► if you build something with the worst

00:28:58 ◼   ► case in mind its overall going to be

00:29:01 ◼   ► better as a result exactly that's all

00:29:04 ◼   ► the time we have this week thank you

00:29:06 ◼   ► very much for listening and we will see

00:29:07 ◼   ► you next week bye