Under the Radar

◼   ► welcome to under the radar a show but

◼   ► independent iOS app development I'm

◼   ► Marco Arment and I'm David Smith under

◼   ► the radar is never longer than 30

◼   ► minutes so let's get started so today I

◼   ► wanted to talk about designing for

◼   ► misuse and and maybe abuse - and maybe

◼   ► some malicious use but you know just

◼   ► general categories of misuse of people

◼   ► trying to use your apps either

◼   ► maliciously or in ways that you didn't

◼   ► intend or consider when you design them

◼   ► and kind of how you can deal with that

◼   ► and how you can mitigate or minimize the

◼   ► the negative effects of that I mean so

◼   ► you you have a number of apps I'm

◼   ► thinking of things like my recipe book

◼   ► or audiobooks even where like somebody

◼   ► could potentially get a ton of data in

◼   ► there like a ton of Records or like a

◼   ► ton of audiobooks or stuff like that

◼   ► like like do you when you design things

◼   ► do you account for like very very heavy

◼   ► users who might be using the app to do

◼   ► or store way more than you designed it

◼   ► for I it's something i've definitely

◼   ► didn't do or what initially and had

◼   ► since have to had to learn a lot of

◼   ► lessons about doing like in preparation

◼   ► of this episode i took a look in my

◼   ► recipe sink system and i found I was

◼   ► like wonder how many recipes the biggest

◼   ► users have and the biggest user has 13

◼   ► thousand recipes like god in their in

◼   ► their sink account and they use the app

◼   ► how I also checked how often like are

◼   ► they actually still using it and it's

◼   ► like their last their the data their

◼   ► last one yesterday so they are still

◼   ► using it with 13 thousand recipes and I

◼   ► did not in any way design the app to

◼   ► scale for two thirteen thousand recipes

◼   ► so it's something that I've had to learn

◼   ► and I'll get the support requests from

◼   ► people who are like why won't it just

◼   ► like you know the sink seems really slow

◼   ► and I go and check their account and

◼   ► they have even if not the 13 thousand

◼   ► but even like two or three thousand

◼   ► recipes and I'm like yeah that's that's

◼   ► gonna be tough on an iPad 2 - so just

◼   ► move that amount of data around and

◼   ► quickly search it and things that I mean

◼   ► the numbers aren't massive in and of

◼   ► themselves but I think like you're

◼   ► saying it's you have to design your app

◼   ► and be adaptive to it

◼   ► in that way or otherwise the things just

◼   ► fall down horribly because like your apt

◼   ► if your app doesn't you know sort of

◼   ► scale well or gracefully it's gonna kind

◼   ► of fall apart and so now when I'm doing

◼   ► these kinds of things I always have to

◼   ► think in the back of my mind like how

◼   ► this it's not even how many how many

◼   ► records or how many entries could

◼   ► someone reasonably have it's like how

◼   ► many records could someone unreasonably

◼   ► have what is what like what's the limit

◼   ► here beyond which it would be completely

◼   ► impractical for them to even get there

◼   ► and it's also probably worth saying like

◼   ► that person who has 13 thousand recipes

◼   ► like they've been at inter entering into

◼   ► the system into the system for the think

◼   ► three years now like they've been using

◼   ► the app for three years and so even like

◼   ► you have to keep in mind that you things

◼   ► will just gradually grow and extend over

◼   ► time that it's not even just oh

◼   ► someone's being silly and just like

◼   ► creating a million entries in my system

◼   ► it's like no they could just use it a

◼   ► lot and over the course of several years

◼   ► because hopefully your app will be

◼   ► around for several years it'll get to a

◼   ► point that things are way beyond what

◼   ► you may have originally thought or

◼   ► expected oh yeah I mean like you know

◼   ► and this isn't that unreasonable of a

◼   ► thing to I could from the user point of

◼   ► view like you might you might think as a

◼   ► user oh I'm using everything as design

◼   ► but like there there's probably like one

◼   ► or two things in your in your setup

◼   ► either the apps you use or maybe like a

◼   ► giant folder on your computer or some

◼   ► giant database you have like oh I happen

◼   ► to have I happen to be a Musical actor

◼   ► and have like a hundred thousand mp3s or

◼   ► happen to have a lot of photos or

◼   ► whatever else like almost everybody has

◼   ► the extremes of something you know like

◼   ► like we like I our friend Merlin man

◼   ► over it back to work has often talked

◼   ► about his trouble finding Dropbox text

◼   ► file markdown editors because like that

◼   ► whole category of app so there's a

◼   ► million of on the app store to edit

◼   ► Dropbox note text files because he has

◼   ► like thousands of them because he uses

◼   ► them in all sorts of ways that a lot of

◼   ► people don't consider or don't think of

◼   ► and a lot of times like he try out a new

◼   ► app and it'll just crash or it'll be a

◼   ► searching will be impossibly slow or

◼   ► something you know this this happens a

◼   ► lot like almost everybody has like one

◼   ► thing where they are pushing the bounds

◼   ► on like I have

◼   ► with overcast I have users that first

◼   ► started reporting like slow sync issues

◼   ► and I would get I dig in with them and I

◼   ► find out that they would have like 150

◼   ► podcast subscriptions and so most people

◼   ► have trouble keeping up with 3 to 5

◼   ► podcasts every week and this guy has 150

◼   ► but he's using them you know he's using

◼   ► the app like I'm not gonna like that's

◼   ► that's that's the you know that's these

◼   ► people's prerogative if they want to use

◼   ► the app that way if it's not like

◼   ► malicious against you in any way what's

◼   ► the problem so you know you have to

◼   ► design for these kind of extremes and

◼   ► yet to test for them like you'd be

◼   ► surprised like how how how quickly

◼   ► either your app or your server the

◼   ► server side process if you're syncing

◼   ► them to a server or dealing with server

◼   ► anyway how quickly you can hit memory

◼   ► limits because like a lot of these like

◼   ► like you know my back-end is all PHP and

◼   ► yes make fun of it as much as you want

◼   ► but almost every language that has on

◼   ► the server side some kind of memory

◼   ► limit that you can configure often it's

◼   ► set by default to something you know

◼   ► right in like the hundreds of megabytes

◼   ► usually at most so you know you might

◼   ► have like a PHP process might be able to

◼   ► max out it like 32 Meg's or 128 Meg's

◼   ► something in that range well if somebody

◼   ► has like 10,000 items that you're trying

◼   ► to sync and the server is trying to deal

◼   ► with that you actually might hit that

◼   ► like depending on the design of your

◼   ► system

◼   ► similarly on I on iOS like if you're

◼   ► trying to read all those records into

◼   ► memory to do some kind of batch

◼   ► operation or some kind of inefficient

◼   ► counting or something like that if

◼   ► you're if you have your own custom data

◼   ► interaction layer here and you are

◼   ► dealing with 10,000 records 100,000

◼   ► records and an app that you designed to

◼   ► have a few hundred records you might

◼   ► blow the memory limit on the iOS device

◼   ► and the app might get killed or crash so

◼   ► this is you know this is pretty pretty

◼   ► important stuff to at least deal with

◼   ► gracefully or as gracefully as you can

◼   ► you know your app should at least not

◼   ► crash you know if a heavy user uses it

◼   ► and so you should be as much as much as

◼   ► it's possible to you should be testing

◼   ► for this like if you have an app with

◼   ► any kind of user login system have a

◼   ► user that has you know way more content

◼   ► or data or records then you think is

◼   ► normal or that you even think anybody

◼   ► would ever have you know like I like

◼   ► during the velopment of breadth of

◼   ► vesper our friend Brent Simmons was was

◼   ► blogging here and there about how like

◼   ► they had

◼   ► they had a test data that was like

◼   ► thousands of notes and they knew that

◼   ► almost nobody would ever take thousands

◼   ► and thousands of notes but they wanted

◼   ► to make sure the app worked well and

◼   ► didn't crash and hopefully was fast and

◼   ► was still actually good and functional

◼   ► with way more data than they expected so

◼   ► like you know first first priority don't

◼   ► break you know don't crash don't make

◼   ► the UI like break in weird ways like

◼   ► it's like something overflowing it's

◼   ► bound or rendering in the wrong spot

◼   ► because like some assumption was broken

◼   ► but how long something would be and and

◼   ► try to not slow down

◼   ► noticeably so there's many strategies

◼   ► for this that it you know beyond the

◼   ► scope of this episode but you know

◼   ► generally you want to you know you want

◼   ► to have some kind of database back in

◼   ► you know not like a P list with 10,000

◼   ► entries in it like you want to have some

◼   ► kind of database if you use core data it

◼   ► will do a lot of this for you especially

◼   ► if you use like the the fetch results

◼   ► controller is right because it you use

◼   ► those here and there right yeah and then

◼   ► they handle that's how most of this gets

◼   ► done in my ABS it's like rely on

◼   ► problems that were solved at a different

◼   ► level like because core data was

◼   ► designed to scale from like 10 records

◼   ► to ten thousand or ten million records

◼   ► like it's intended to be able to do that

◼   ► and so if you use it that way you know

◼   ► it does all the nice batching for you

◼   ► and only pulling in like pointers to

◼   ► things rather than to hold their whole

◼   ► contents initially and all that kind of

◼   ► stuff like if you do it thoughtfully in

◼   ► that way then you know a lot of this

◼   ► work can sort of be done for you or at

◼   ► least the first pass at this kind of

◼   ► work can be done for you exactly so you

◼   ► know generally you know don't break

◼   ► under heavy usage like this if you can

◼   ► help it and then try it to slow down and

◼   ► so you know use this as appropriate make

◼   ► sure you know watch your memory limits

◼   ► it helps to like you know if you can run

◼   ► some testing where you can go into

◼   ► instruments and watch memory usage of

◼   ► your app and like see how it changes if

◼   ► somebody has ten rows versus ten

◼   ► thousand rows and you know the it should

◼   ► not be going up linearly with the amount

◼   ► of data that's being stored in your app

◼   ► you know your your your in memory set

◼   ► should not be scaling up your you know

◼   ► your on disk set obviously could but you

◼   ► know in memory should not so you know

◼   ► beyond the technical side of making sure

◼   ► it works

◼   ► and you know again that's not a small

◼   ► thing but if you be on the technical

◼   ► side of things there are things you can

◼   ► do in the design of the app to kind of

◼   ► help make this manageable for people and

◼   ► help help yourself out too with like the

◼   ► amount of load that you're placing on

◼   ► various parts of it and you know how

◼   ► something might break so well I think

◼   ► one of the one of the staples of iOS app

◼   ► usability and design is the table view

◼   ► you know the table view first of all

◼   ► it's designed in such a way especially

◼   ► when paired with core data or an

◼   ► intelligent other layer it's designed in

◼   ► such a way that it can scale

◼   ► ridiculously well we know when you

◼   ► combine the the way the cells are reused

◼   ► and only certain amounts of data or page

◼   ► in at once

◼   ► combine that with like the the

◼   ► estimations of cell Heights and the

◼   ► estimations of sections and numbers of

◼   ► things in sections and then you have

◼   ► like the the like first letter on the

◼   ► right side like and like in the phone

◼   ► contacts app you have like the letter

◼   ► jumping on the side where you can sort

◼   ► and that's also by the way helpful in

◼   ► different languages that you don't

◼   ► support use apples please just use

◼   ► apples thing and you'll be mostly okay

◼   ► you know stuff like that having like

◼   ► easy navigation intelligent sorting of

◼   ► long lists like you know you might have

◼   ► a list in your app that's sorted

◼   ► chronologically if there's no way to

◼   ► sort it alphabetically and somebody

◼   ► might have 10,000 items that might be

◼   ► problematic you know if it likes think

◼   ► about like how you're how you're sorting

◼   ► in your app works and if there's

◼   ► anything you can do in the design the UI

◼   ► design of the app to make it less

◼   ► cumbersome or impossible to use for

◼   ► somebody who is in your opinion grossly

◼   ► over using it or grossly over filling it

◼   ► because that will happen there will be

◼   ► good reasons for it and you know if

◼   ► possible don't break under that right

◼   ► and so other things also in that and in

◼   ► that category would involve Search

◼   ► Search is a big one here you know any

◼   ► kind of local search you can offer that

◼   ► doesn't use a server is is easy first of

◼   ► all almost every database supports

◼   ► sequel Lite supports it you know you can

◼   ► just write your own dumb one if you

◼   ► really want to but please use a search

◼   ► index it's much easier like using stuff

◼   ► like that can really help people who

◼   ► have tons and tons of of entries can

◼   ► really help them find their data and use

◼   ► your app and with search like you know

◼   ► the way it works with like basically a

◼   ► whole bunch of binary tree

◼   ► and everything like you can you could

◼   ► make a vast number of Records accessible

◼   ► via search without a ton of work and

◼   ► without a ton of CPU time being spent so

◼   ► you know if there's any possibility of

◼   ► somebody having a ton of data in your

◼   ► app offer a search if it makes sense to

◼   ► because it really does its ski it lets

◼   ► your apps scale well because all of this

◼   ► was really talking about app scaling

◼   ► it's like you know in kind of in the in

◼   ► the way that you know website scaling is

◼   ► really talking about like number of

◼   ► users or amount of traffic AB scaling

◼   ► for one person in this case is like

◼   ► talking about the amount of data they

◼   ► might store in your app and what kind of

◼   ► technical and organizational challenges

◼   ► that will present exactly and the nice

◼   ► thing too is that most of these changes

◼   ► these improvements these ways of like

◼   ► looking at your app at high usage

◼   ► whatever that might need mean for your

◼   ► app will almost always make it better

◼   ► for the typical case that like you avoid

◼   ► the like if your app does get Linney

◼   ► linearly worse every time the user adds

◼   ► a record like that's incredibly

◼   ► problematic when you have 10,000 records

◼   ► but it means that every single time the

◼   ► user is using the app they're making it

◼   ► slightly worse for themselves like

◼   ► that's your discouraging use yeah like

◼   ► what you want is to make sure that you

◼   ► know your app scales gracefully in this

◼   ► way but mostly because then that means

◼   ► that it's probably gonna be a lot better

◼   ► for you know your typical user like and

◼   ► obviously that's nothing you want to

◼   ► keep in the back of your mind that you

◼   ► don't want to be making changes that are

◼   ► only beneficial if you have 10,000 users

◼   ► or 10,000 records because very few users

◼   ► are gonna have that and so if it makes

◼   ► your app way more complicated then

◼   ► that's probably not good but looking at

◼   ► it in these ways you get these benefits

◼   ► I mean it's like you were saying with

◼   ► like UI tableview is really efficient

◼   ► and UI tableview is designed like for

◼   ► the original iPhone like as far as I

◼   ► know it's like that was built into you

◼   ► know iPhone OS 1 when things were

◼   ► incredibly constrained and tight and it

◼   ► made the an OS you know where a lot of

◼   ► things are just scrolling lists really

◼   ► perform it in powerful and so then as

◼   ► devices got more capable it got even

◼   ► better and in the same way it's like if

◼   ► you

◼   ► you are designing things so that they

◼   ► work when things are constrained in this

◼   ► case when they were constrained by

◼   ► having large numbers of things when you

◼   ► aren't constrained in that way suddenly

◼   ► everything's just better and faster and

◼   ► in the a--probably instantaneous for

◼   ► most of your users like if things only

◼   ► take a few seconds for your extreme

◼   ► users they're probably gonna be if you

◼   ► know instantaneous or you know momentary

◼   ► for your typical user and that's what

◼   ► you want and like that this exercise is

◼   ► helpful in that way of looking at your

◼   ► app and saying well where could I make

◼   ► this better like an easy obvious case

◼   ► it's just to say like well let me throw

◼   ► way more things into it than I need and

◼   ► see where I can make it better as a

◼   ► result exactly and you know and you're

◼   ► like you mentioned like you know trying

◼   ► to optimize for typical use you know

◼   ► versus versus the the kind of extremes

◼   ► and the fact is like when you're when

◼   ► you're talking about adding any kind of

◼   ► organizational system something like I'm

◼   ► thinking like you know like like one

◼   ► level of folders or tags which are

◼   ► basically folders like you know one

◼   ► level of organization to like abstract

◼   ► something away that can go a long way

◼   ► like if you have an app where people

◼   ► might often have more than about you

◼   ► know 20 to 50 records like they might

◼   ► want some kind of way to organize that

◼   ► and like having just one level of folder

◼   ► hierarchy could also scale to 10,000

◼   ► items fairly well like you don't have

◼   ► like a little goes a long way here you

◼   ► don't really have to go overboard with a

◼   ► cup with accommodating for these things

◼   ► in the UI because you know the the high

◼   ► end users any little bit will help them

◼   ► tremendously and it won't put too much

◼   ► of a burden on regular users exactly and

◼   ► obviously these are all like these are

◼   ► the kinds of things we're talking about

◼   ► are in the good case where things are

◼   ► people are using your app in the way

◼   ► that you intended it and just using it a

◼   ► lot but obviously they also they could

◼   ► talk use there could be problems that

◼   ► you could run into on the malicious side

◼   ► and we're about to talk about that

◼   ► before we do could you tell me about

◼   ► something that's awesome we are

◼   ► sponsored this week by dev mate go to

◼   ► dev mate dot-com slash radar to learn

◼   ► more dev mate is a single SDK with a set

◼   ► of advanced back-end features for Mac

◼   ► developers that allows them to easily

◼   ► integrate in app purchasing software

◼   ► licensing auto-updates crash reports

◼   ► user feedback and more

◼   ► all four Mac apps without being in the

◼   ► Mac App Store this is very useful stuff

◼   ► if you're a Mac developer because you

◼   ► don't have to handle all these things

◼   ► for you know all manually for yourself

◼   ► plus all the analytics for your app with

◼   ► sales and downloads are all available

◼   ► real time in dev mate's dashboard that's

◼   ► real-time sales analytics data Mac paw

◼   ► are very excited to announce that dev

◼   ► mates of rich functionality is now free

◼   ► for all and is instantly accessible

◼   ► after integration magpie use these tools

◼   ► themselves to help them build their own

◼   ► apps include and CleanMyMac and you

◼   ► can't and you can take a look at on

◼   ► their site to see examples than many

◼   ► other developers that also rely on dev

◼   ► mate there's some big names there these

◼   ► days more and more developers are eager

◼   ► to sell outside the Mac App Store having

◼   ► dev mate as an ultimate solution for

◼   ► independent OS 10 development is a great

◼   ► place to start you can find out more

◼   ► right now by going to dev mate comm

◼   ► slash radar once again that's dev mate

◼   ► comm slash radar if you're a Mac

◼   ► developer you got to check this out

◼   ► thank you very much to dev mate for

◼   ► sponsoring

◼   ► under-the-radar and all of real EFM all

◼   ► right so obviously if you you know

◼   ► people are just putting lots of data in

◼   ► your app like that's not really

◼   ► problematic it could be problematic if

◼   ► rep distance and a lit well but there's

◼   ► also cases where rather than just your

◼   ► users using the app and a positive like

◼   ► they just love it you know like this

◼   ► person just really loves baking and

◼   ► wants to put 13,000 recipes in their

◼   ► city and there's in in my sink system

◼   ► there can also be taking cases

◼   ► especially as your hep cats

◼   ► attention or popular or you get

◼   ► attention or become popular where people

◼   ► might want to misuse your application

◼   ► for whatever reason or in whatever way

◼   ► and so it's kind of important that you

◼   ► also think about it from those

◼   ► perspectives of what's the worst that

◼   ► people could do what could people be

◼   ► doing with my app with my back-end you

◼   ► know if someone ran like a Wireshark

◼   ► application and looked at all the

◼   ► network traffic between my app and my

◼   ► server are there things that I wouldn't

◼   ► want them to know or be able operations

◼   ► that they could do that would really

◼   ► hurt me and you kind of have to start

◼   ► thinking through these basic security

◼   ► things in order to make sure that your

◼   ► app is going to be stable and worthwhile

◼   ► and and also like in the same kind of

◼   ► way we were saying before

◼   ► if you do these things it can prevent

◼   ► misuse but it also will probably make

◼   ► basic use better because then your app

◼   ► is more secure your users data is more

◼   ► secure things are more reliable and so

◼   ► it does take a bit of work and a bit of

◼   ► thoughtfulness but these are things that

◼   ► are kind of basic things that are

◼   ► probably important if you want to get

◼   ► into any kind of thing that you stores

◼   ► or uses users data oh yeah and you know

◼   ► like when you have any kind of you know

◼   ► if you just have a local app that has no

◼   ► web component that you at least that you

◼   ► run but you know it if you just have a

◼   ► local app there's only so much user can

◼   ► do to to hurt anyone else or you using

◼   ► the app but as soon as you have a

◼   ► service behind it or especially like a

◼   ► web interface there there are so much

◼   ► that people can do that you know the

◼   ► good thing is that web security is a

◼   ► pretty well-known field at this point I

◼   ► mean it's not solved it's not flawless

◼   ► but you know the the major categories of

◼   ► danger are well-known and many of them

◼   ► can be avoided you know without too much

◼   ► work these days because we you know

◼   ► we've had a long time to work on web

◼   ► security and so like you know like one

◼   ► of the basics is obviously to use SSL

◼   ► you know if you have any kind of API the

◼   ► running over HTTP use SSL this is not

◼   ► difficult these days in fact one tip

◼   ► I've come across recently is so I host

◼   ► all my stuff on Linode and they have

◼   ► these things called node balancers we're

◼   ► just like their own like kind of managed

◼   ► to load balancing things for 20 bucks a

◼   ► month and so I use I use node balance

◼   ► here is not only for load balancing but

◼   ► even when I only have one server behind

◼   ► them I use the node bouncer for SSL

◼   ► decryption and also to be kind of a

◼   ► front-end because then the actual IP of

◼   ► the machine is not you know being

◼   ► directly exposed to the users and also

◼   ► that is handling all the SSL decryption

◼   ► for me so that and and Linode keeps

◼   ► these maintaining keep C's updated so

◼   ► that whenever SSL changes whenever like

◼   ► people discover oh this old ciphers

◼   ► actually actually has a weakness that we

◼   ► did that we just learned about so nobody

◼   ► should use that everyone should upgrade

◼   ► to TLS one point whatever or do you know

◼   ► disabled a certain cipher or anything

◼   ► they do all that for you so you are

◼   ► always kept on top of it you just paste

◼   ► it in your certificate in your key into

◼   ► their admin panel and then your server

◼   ► talks regular

◼   ► HTTP to the load balancer and the load

◼   ► balancer to the node balancer excuse me

◼   ► the node balancer then is handling all

◼   ► security for you so that's I highly

◼   ► recommend if you're on Linode and you

◼   ► can spare another 20 bucks a month

◼   ► outsource your your SSL dealing with to

◼   ► a node balancer it's a lot easier and

◼   ► you know but even if you do it yourself

◼   ► you know just keep on top of it there's

◼   ► a there's a Qualis SSL test that you can

◼   ► you can kind of test your site and see

◼   ► how it does on the security thing just

◼   ► you know go test it every few months or

◼   ► whenever you hear any news about it just

◼   ► make sure you're on top of things but or

◼   ► you can just outsource it like I do

◼   ► excuse me

◼   ► or you just outsource it and it's a no

◼   ► big deal also for web pages consider

◼   ► using content security policy this is a

◼   ► relatively young web thing it's it's a

◼   ► header you put on on repot on responses

◼   ► CSP or content security policy it's a

◼   ► thing that it's basically a declaration

◼   ► you make in the headers that tells the

◼   ► browser where from what domains and what

◼   ► types of JavaScript and CSS and assets

◼   ► are permitted to be loaded by this page

◼   ► and what this is mostly useful for is to

◼   ► eliminate a whole category of

◼   ► vulnerabilities like cross-site

◼   ► scripting then there's tons of

◼   ► vulnerabilities that this just

◼   ► completely negates for browsers that

◼   ► support it and almost every modern

◼   ► browser will enforce it as far as I know

◼   ► so you know using content security

◼   ► policy with SSL and with HSTs strict

◼   ► Transport Security which will enforce

◼   ► SSL for basically everything for all

◼   ► modern browsers like using those things

◼   ► you are way more secure than the average

◼   ► service and you know Plus you know basic

◼   ► server security as we talked about last

◼   ► week or two weeks ago rather so that is

◼   ► that will get you a huge huge part of

◼   ► the way there and and I mean heck I even

◼   ► in my podcast app I even have SSL

◼   ► certificate pinning which is complete

◼   ► overkill for a podcast app but what that

◼   ► means is it makes it a lot harder for

◼   ► anybody to not only snoop my traffic and

◼   ► break the app that way but also for like

◼   ► for you know creepy middlemen like like

◼   ► when you get on airplane Wi-Fi and it

◼   ► injects ads into everything you see now

◼   ► or you know like it it makes it

◼   ► impossible for those kind of things to

◼   ► interfere with my app and will protect

◼   ► me and it protects my users so it's it

◼   ► these kind

◼   ► things like they seem like overkill if

◼   ► you're just making an app for something

◼   ► basically playing podcasts but in in the

◼   ► modern era this really isn't overkill

◼   ► and it really isn't that hard I think

◼   ► that's the important thing to like a lot

◼   ► of these things like a little goes a

◼   ► long way like just does all these you

◼   ► know best practices and things you're

◼   ► talking about if like the different

◼   ► types of security and the different

◼   ► approaches you can take

◼   ► but doing anything is going to do a lot

◼   ► just to get started with and like if

◼   ► you're gonna do it fair enough do it

◼   ► properly but all of these things like

◼   ► any sigh if you just like you do there's

◼   ► no reason to be sending anything in

◼   ► plain text in like a modern app it's

◼   ► just it just doesn't make sense like

◼   ► maybe media maybe but in general like

◼   ► you missed you just may as well like

◼   ► things are it doesn't make your things

◼   ► slower or a little more expensive or

◼   ► those types of things like it just makes

◼   ► the app better and so if you can do it

◼   ► because you're just trying to minimize

◼   ► the things the directions that people

◼   ► can could you know be mischievous with

◼   ► your application exactly so moving on

◼   ► from now like direct security attacks I

◼   ► want to talk a little bit about spam if

◼   ► your app has any kind of user-generated

◼   ► content that could potentially be

◼   ► exposed to other users of the app or to

◼   ► the public on your website and it's some

◼   ► kind of like top ranked list or most

◼   ► popular content or anything like that

◼   ► that is a potential vector for spam for

◼   ► people to span your site of your service

◼   ► or your app in order to promote their

◼   ► own stuff or deface stuff or make people

◼   ► look at porn or whatever else there's

◼   ► you know so anything where

◼   ► user-generated content could be shown to

◼   ► a larger audience of your apps users you

◼   ► have to be very very careful about these

◼   ► kind of things that become possible it's

◼   ► you know it's one thing to just think oh

◼   ► well I'm gonna make you know suppose

◼   ► suppose you have like in overcast to

◼   ► have a recommendations thing suppose I

◼   ► would I was gonna show on the website

◼   ► top recommended things which I kind of

◼   ► do in the app but I'll get to that you

◼   ► have to think like how could somebody

◼   ► spam this in order to promote their own

◼   ► thing or show inappropriate content or

◼   ► something you know so somehow break it

◼   ► in a way that would be valuable to them

◼   ► or would you know deface the the whole

◼   ► thing and make everyone look bad

◼   ► and you might think oh I can just keep

◼   ► on top I'll just check it every day

◼   ► and I'll delete anything that looks

◼   ► wrong and it'll be fine the fact is you

◼   ► can't and you won't police it yourself

◼   ► like you you that is unless you have a

◼   ► very large dedicated staff doing this

◼   ► around the clock and you know and every

◼   ► different language around the world

◼   ► you're probably not gonna be able to

◼   ► police spam yourself hey you know you

◼   ► can you can look at the big services

◼   ► like like Twitter for instance where

◼   ► spam is a thing and it is not a small

◼   ► deal for a company like Twitter to to

◼   ► try to prevent and eliminate spam as it

◼   ► comes it that takes a huge staff so you

◼   ► probably won't have that luxury

◼   ► so my solution to this is to generally

◼   ► just avoid creating mechanisms that can

◼   ► be spammed so avoid creating global top

◼   ► lists you know any kind of like global

◼   ► rankings most popular lists I don't even

◼   ► have like you can't even review podcasts

◼   ► and overcast you can't like write

◼   ► written user reviews that are shown to

◼   ► anybody else because that's also spam

◼   ► you know promotional problems like

◼   ► defacing and everything legal problems

◼   ► so like just if you can avoid any area

◼   ► that can be spammed if you can't avoid

◼   ► it try to outsource the control that

◼   ► spam or the decision on whether

◼   ► something is spam try to outsource that

◼   ► to some other larger authority so and

◼   ► I'm not I'm not talking about other spam

◼   ► filters I'm not talking about like you

◼   ► know a kismet or anything like that I'm

◼   ► talking about outsourcing it to some

◼   ► other authority that themselves would

◼   ► need to have spam get through in a

◼   ► significant way for it to be a problem

◼   ► for you so an overcast case I use iTunes

◼   ► IDs because iTunes reviews every podcast

◼   ► that goes in and I have never seen spam

◼   ► in the iTunes podcast directory I've

◼   ► seen bad podcast but I've never actually

◼   ► seen like you know what most people

◼   ► consider blatant spam in there and it

◼   ► also helps control like adult content

◼   ► and you know stuff like that because

◼   ► they also look for that so in overcast I

◼   ► won't show a podcast in search results

◼   ► unless I can match it to something in

◼   ► the iTunes directory and if I can't

◼   ► it stays private like you can still

◼   ► enter it by URL but it's not going to be

◼   ► shown to people who weren't looking for

◼   ► it so that basically eliminates any of

◼   ► any problems with spam or poor content

◼   ► and then also for the recommendations

◼   ► side of it I use your Twitter following

◼   ► graph

◼   ► so the only recommendations you will

◼   ► ever see an overcast are either from

◼   ► people you follow on Twitter so if

◼   ► they're spamming you can unfollow them

◼   ► and it's you know that's that's that's

◼   ► your choice

◼   ► you know so it's either from people you

◼   ► have chosen to follow on Twitter or it's

◼   ► from people if you don't have enough

◼   ► people who you follow on Twitter it's

◼   ► from people who are very popular on

◼   ► Twitter who have tons and tons of

◼   ► followers so the point where it would it

◼   ► would be very very unlikely for any spam

◼   ► to get in that way but for the most part

◼   ► it's based on people you follow only and

◼   ► so that way you know the combination of

◼   ► that plus the iTunes ID filtering means

◼   ► that it's basically impossible for this

◼   ► mechanism to to show spam in a

◼   ► meaningful way and so really the best

◼   ► thing you can do if you have something

◼   ► like this is like design it so that it

◼   ► can't be spammed and if it can be

◼   ► spammed outsource the authority over

◼   ► what a spam to somebody big exactly and

◼   ► I think it's probably a good way to like

◼   ► I personally just avoid situations that

◼   ► user-generated data would ever be shown

◼   ► to someone else like I can't think of an

◼   ► example in any of my my products where I

◼   ► do that like I look at that problem and

◼   ► I'm like that is big scary yes not

◼   ► something I want to touch I just don't

◼   ► and maybe there that means that there

◼   ► are some features in my apps that I

◼   ► could have that would be really cool but

◼   ► I don't but I just decided that you know

◼   ► what it's I'm one person I'm never going

◼   ► to be able to or it's gonna be really

◼   ► hard to stay on top of it so I just

◼   ► don't and that's okay and I think the

◼   ► important thing with like this whole

◼   ► episodes discussion is when you're

◼   ► thinking of that feature like when I've

◼   ► December I'm deciding not to add

◼   ► features that show user-generated

◼   ► content to someone else like the

◼   ► fundamental underlying thing that you

◼   ► have to be thoughtful of is when you're

◼   ► building it you have to be building it

◼   ► with like what's the worst-case scenario

◼   ► in mind yep that it's so easy when

◼   ► you're building something to think of it

◼   ► only from like the cool obvious like the

◼   ► way you would use it perspective but in

◼   ► order for you to have an app that is

◼   ► going to be go with like good for

◼   ► performance for your extreme users or

◼   ► have good security and avoid kind of

◼   ► user you know user-generated content

◼   ► problems you have to always be building

◼   ► it sort of with the worst case in mind

◼   ► and that can be the worst case person

◼   ► the worst case user the worst case

◼   ► device the worst case Network whatever

◼   ► it is

◼   ► if you build something with the worst

◼   ► case in mind its overall going to be

◼   ► better as a result exactly that's all

◼   ► the time we have this week thank you

◼   ► very much for listening and we will see

◼   ► you next week bye