Under the Radar 28: Wear Your Own T-Shirt
◼
►
welcome to under the radar our show but
◼
►
independent iOS app development I'm
◼
►
Marco Arment and I'm David Smith under
◼
►
the radar is never longer than 30
◼
►
minutes so let's get started so today
◼
►
what I wanted to talk through is and the
◼
►
broader concepts but something that
◼
►
started from a sort of my initial
◼
►
planning for getting ready to go in a 10
◼
►
WWDC this year where one of the things
◼
►
that I was thinking about is the
◼
►
interactions that I tend to have at the
◼
►
can at the actual convention at the you
◼
►
know on the floor and something that has
◼
►
happened several times is I'll you know
◼
►
be walking around and I'll just randomly
◼
►
bump into somebody and start to you know
◼
►
chatting and it's like as we start
◼
►
talking eventually we get to a point
◼
►
that they're like oh wait you're the guy
◼
►
who did pedometer plus plus like I love
◼
►
that app or something like that where
◼
►
you have this interaction where it's
◼
►
like eventually they do sort of it did
◼
►
this there's this discovery of a comment
◼
►
and like a common ground it's almost an
◼
►
yeah it's and that accidental nature of
◼
►
it is the problem is the problem that I
◼
►
wanted to talk about today because what
◼
►
I've been thinking about is like well
◼
►
what most companies do when they're
◼
►
encounter this kind of a thing it's like
◼
►
if you walk around WTC you will see
◼
►
people wearing like 1password shirts and
◼
►
you know they work fragile bits or
◼
►
you'll see you know companies with omni
◼
►
shirts on or whatever and you'll know
◼
►
they work for Omni and so if you like on
◼
►
here and when we talk to someone who
◼
►
works there like you know how to go how
◼
►
to go about doing that but it feels
◼
►
weird in some ways at least initially it
◼
►
started feeling weird and I was like try
◼
►
and like make shirts that say you know
◼
►
it's like my apps and have like
◼
►
phenomena or plus plus or sleep plus
◼
►
plus or under the radar even or even
◼
►
just my name like put on it and it it's
◼
►
weird because it feels a bit like like
◼
►
like self-promotion in that way feels a
◼
►
bit odd and the more I've thought about
◼
►
this I need to probably not think about
◼
►
it in those ways but it seemed like an
◼
►
interesting topic to talk about because
◼
►
I struggle with this with this weird
◼
►
tension of it's like if I were if I was
◼
►
working for a bigger company and I was
◼
►
going to a convention
◼
►
that company said hey you know here's
◼
►
you know five t-shirts that have a
◼
►
various products on it would love it if
◼
►
you could wear them during the thing and
◼
►
you know see if that can you know start
◼
►
a conversation help a conversation along
◼
►
like I wouldn't feel weird about doing
◼
►
that it would be like yeah totally you
◼
►
know I'm a team player let's do this
◼
►
but when it's like me promoting myself
◼
►
it feels a bit weird and that tension is
◼
►
a strange thing I think in some ways
◼
►
it's unique to being an indie but I
◼
►
think a lot of people probably struggle
◼
►
with this type of thing when your brand
◼
►
is more personal rather than sort of
◼
►
more corporate yeah I mean this is I
◼
►
think a lot of this plays into what I
◼
►
think would probably be like the
◼
►
stereotypical geek personality that many
◼
►
people in our industry I think us
◼
►
included I have which is you know it's
◼
►
it's hard for people with this
◼
►
personality type to self-promote it's
◼
►
hard for them to like brag about
◼
►
themselves and promote promote their
◼
►
work a lot of times and this is
◼
►
something I had to just get over over
◼
►
the years honestly and I'm still not
◼
►
great at it but it's it's really hard
◼
►
for certain personality types to to be
◼
►
willing to do that and I think what it
◼
►
what helps to to distinguish here
◼
►
between like times you should and
◼
►
shouldn't do that or wet we know when or
◼
►
where you shouldn't shouldn't do that is
◼
►
to recognize that there are lots of
◼
►
situations in which you know like like
◼
►
walking around WTC tons of people there
◼
►
are wearing their own t-shirts like
◼
►
there that is if there's ever a time in
◼
►
place to wear your own t-shirt of the
◼
►
app you make or the company you work for
◼
►
it's at a conference full of other
◼
►
people doing the exact same thing like
◼
►
the the cost of you doing that the risk
◼
►
of you doing that is absolutely lowest
◼
►
they're at during that week and there's
◼
►
also you know situations like like if
◼
►
you are at a you know a tech meetup or
◼
►
you know it just any place where you're
◼
►
where you're know you're gonna be
◼
►
stranded by other software developers or
◼
►
other people in your in your business
◼
►
who are probably going to also be doing
◼
►
the same thing like that's totally fine
◼
►
not only are you like you know not only
◼
►
will will the world tolerate your
◼
►
self-promotion during that time but as
◼
►
you mentioned like for purposes like
◼
►
starting up conversations or trying to
◼
►
meet people who make the apps you like
◼
►
it's actually helpful you actually
◼
►
you're actually helping people find you
◼
►
who want to find you or who are
◼
►
interested in your in your app or or who
◼
►
know who you are or who want to know who
◼
►
you are so it's like you're actually
◼
►
helping help by by being self
◼
►
promotional in certain contexts such as
◼
►
those kind of you know real-life
◼
►
gatherings of similar types of people
◼
►
and that you know it's just one of those
◼
►
things where you just kind of have to
◼
►
you just kind of had to think of it from
◼
►
the other person's perspective of like
◼
►
if I wear a shirt that identifies me as
◼
►
the maker of this app or that or as the
◼
►
host of the show or whatever is the
◼
►
other person more likely to think I'm
◼
►
being like an arrogant jerk or more
◼
►
likely to recognize that from for people
◼
►
who want to who are who are who are
◼
►
interested in saying hi to me and and
◼
►
will and that'll make their job actually
◼
►
easier and they will appreciate that
◼
►
rather than trying to guess wait is that
◼
►
underscore there's just a line on a
◼
►
shirt but that could be an underscore or
◼
►
it could just be like a line because
◼
►
it's kind of hard to put your name on a
◼
►
shirt so I you know like there are so
◼
►
many contexts like that in which you're
◼
►
actually helping the other people by
◼
►
doing that yeah and it's it's an
◼
►
interesting thing too because I think
◼
►
about the tension your soul I can
◼
►
examine that there's a similar example
◼
►
that's also a bit of a tension is like
◼
►
the degree to which you talk about or
◼
►
like mentioned when people say nice
◼
►
things about your products right it's
◼
►
like similar in this way where if
◼
►
there's this strange tension around you
◼
►
notice it's like if someone writes a
◼
►
nice review of one of one of my apps do
◼
►
I like you know put that on Twitter put
◼
►
on my blog it's like that feels a little
◼
►
weird like retweeting when people say
◼
►
nice things about you like that's a
◼
►
little gauche I guess like it's not
◼
►
great but I think it what I've been
◼
►
trying to work through is why that feels
◼
►
weird versus what I'm increasingly
◼
►
coming to grips with about being fine
◼
►
with of the like it's good for people
◼
►
know who you are and to know what you're
◼
►
associated with and like that's just
◼
►
building a brand versus being it's like
◼
►
what can you start to get to the
◼
►
question of what kind of brand do you
◼
►
want to be and that's I think the more
◼
►
interesting place to or like I need to
◼
►
get comfortable with like the first step
◼
►
like I am I am a brand like I have a
◼
►
following online I do things in a public
◼
►
in a public way like I make apps that
◼
►
are used by hundreds of thousands of
◼
►
people like that's an important thing
◼
►
and I need just be okay with that and
◼
►
it's like okay well what kind of brand
◼
►
do I want to be because even big
◼
►
companies have different brands that
◼
►
makes like they have different
◼
►
personalities to them like there's ones
◼
►
that are very kind of like a casual or
◼
►
very formal or very inviting and you
◼
►
know even down to the things like I'm
◼
►
thinking about like I'm working on that
◼
►
you know what what design should I have
◼
►
for like my shirt and it's like well
◼
►
it's probably gonna be kind of geeky
◼
►
like I'm going to make something that's
◼
►
a little bit that that's not just like a
◼
►
picture of an app icon like it's going
◼
►
to be a little bit silly and that
◼
►
probably speaks more to like the
◼
►
personality of my company in my own
◼
►
personality and I think that works but
◼
►
it's like an important thing that I
◼
►
really if it's kind of bad in some ways
◼
►
like I've been doing this for so long
◼
►
but I'm still have these like these
◼
►
basic elements of marketing that I'm
◼
►
just not really comfortable with or have
◼
►
really thought through I mean I think it
◼
►
really does have a lot to do with the
◼
►
context you know as I said earlier like
◼
►
you know there are some context in which
◼
►
people actually are being helped by by
◼
►
your marketing and you know - like your
◼
►
example of like do you retweet things
◼
►
that are complimentary in the context of
◼
►
people who follow you on twitter who are
◼
►
going to see this they don't need that
◼
►
that that is not really helping them to
◼
►
hear how awesome you are because they
◼
►
already follow you they already think
◼
►
you're awesome they don't need to see
◼
►
everyone else thinking you're awesome
◼
►
and you're retweeting that and it just
◼
►
makes you look arrogant but if you have
◼
►
a page for your product like a webpage
◼
►
or even like people who could use the
◼
►
description field on the app store for
◼
►
endorsements they're like put positive
◼
►
reviews like the way people pull out
◼
►
call quotes like like you know people
◼
►
like people do a movie posters
◼
►
and you know put in the ellipses so
◼
►
everything sounds good you know I think
◼
►
like if if prominent people or
◼
►
publications or anybody really says
◼
►
something nice about you yet maybe don't
◼
►
retweet it but put it on your marketing
◼
►
page because in that kind of context
◼
►
that is not only appropriate but can be
◼
►
helpful to people who are visiting to
◼
►
kind of see like you know who else has
◼
►
vetted this app who you know is are
◼
►
there any big publications or names that
◼
►
I've heard of who've said nice things
◼
►
about this like that's actually useful
◼
►
information in that context so I think
◼
►
you know it's it's tempting to just step
◼
►
back and say well I I don't feel
◼
►
comfortable doing any of this so I'm
◼
►
just gonna let people find my stuff but
◼
►
people won't find your stuff like that's
◼
►
not how this works and that's that's
◼
►
kind of it's it's almost a naive view of
◼
►
like how how this world works now that
◼
►
it's very tempting to to think it's a
◼
►
very appealing notion to think that you
◼
►
know I can just put something good out
◼
►
there and it'll it'll get found people
◼
►
will find it and sometimes that does
◼
►
really happen but it really helps a lot
◼
►
if you can grease the wheels a little
◼
►
bit if you could get a lot more people
◼
►
to look at it first and the way you do
◼
►
that is is some kind of promotion some
◼
►
kind of telling people what you're about
◼
►
and I think the line that has to be
◼
►
drawn is figuring out when such
◼
►
promotion would be considered
◼
►
inappropriate and not doing it in those
◼
►
places but then finding the
◼
►
opportunities where it is appropriate or
◼
►
where it is even helpful and trying to
◼
►
focus your efforts there and that's that
◼
►
isn't always an easy line for a lot of
◼
►
people to find you know and certain
◼
►
certain products make an easier harder
◼
►
certain personality types make that
◼
►
easier or harder to it to figure out
◼
►
where that line is but there are places
◼
►
where it is totally appropriate to
◼
►
market yourself and to market your app
◼
►
and it isn't really if you think about
◼
►
it it isn't even really that hard to
◼
►
think about what those places might be
◼
►
you know obviously there's conferences
◼
►
and person things and I would say
◼
►
anywhere where like you're going to a
◼
►
meeting and everybody like passes out
◼
►
business cards that's not that's not
◼
►
what I'm talking about that's just
◼
►
waste of paper but that is actually a
◼
►
thing I've been wondering it's like
◼
►
should I have business cards like I've
◼
►
met business cards in years I I think in
◼
►
our business the answer of generally is
◼
►
no yeah but like this is every now and
◼
►
I'm like I wonder if I'll at some point
◼
►
I'll run into somebody who would be
◼
►
important to be able to for them to know
◼
►
like reach back out to me and it's like
◼
►
I have no I have nothing to give you is
◼
►
like I can write my name on your hand
◼
►
like that's all I've got like it's not
◼
►
it's not great but it's the same kind of
◼
►
thing because like there are
◼
►
opportunities like that like what you're
◼
►
just saying it's like having those
◼
►
contexts where it's completely
◼
►
appropriate to interact in a marketing
◼
►
way and say like it's like I'm this
◼
►
person here's my app and I have
◼
►
something to hand to them like it's if
◼
►
you went to a trade show and had a booth
◼
►
like you'll have things to hand out to
◼
►
people because it's a context rupee if
◼
►
someone wants to receive that you want
◼
►
to be able to give it to them right
◼
►
exactly and that's like there are so
◼
►
many contexts like that in which your
◼
►
self-promotion is welcome or helpful and
◼
►
so for instance we talked in the past
◼
►
about about pitching the press on your
◼
►
app this is a great example of this kind
◼
►
of thing where you know a web site that
◼
►
posts links to things and reviews things
◼
►
every day like daring fireball or Mac
◼
►
stories or I'm or these sites need
◼
►
things to post every day you're not
◼
►
putting them out by suggesting hey might
◼
►
want me and maybe check this out that I
◼
►
just made it it solves this problem like
◼
►
that you're not like you know I mean you
◼
►
can be you can do it badly in a way this
◼
►
seems spamming but if you just do it
◼
►
like a human in a respectful way it
◼
►
tends to be welcomed and that isn't to
◼
►
say that they are guaranteed to to link
◼
►
to you to cover you to give you a
◼
►
positive review but you have to at least
◼
►
do the first step of like letting people
◼
►
know about your app because sites like
◼
►
that need things to post every day so by
◼
►
you promoting your app to them you are
◼
►
not annoying them you are helping them
◼
►
do their job like that so and so find
◼
►
places we're hearing about your app will
◼
►
help people do a job in a way that is
◼
►
not spammy or annoying yeah so like for
◼
►
me like you know blind the email blasts
◼
►
when people blast email all over me I
◼
►
don't I don't appreciate that very much
◼
►
and one of the main reasons is because
◼
►
like the the lists that people tend to I
◼
►
assume by often include bad addresses
◼
►
things like overcast support a dress a
◼
►
hat like that's not an appropriate place
◼
►
to send promotional stuff about your
◼
►
service to make developers lives easier
◼
►
but you know if like people run websites
◼
►
that review apps and there's no there's
◼
►
a contact form there or there's an email
◼
►
address there for like hey hey send your
◼
►
you know PR inquiries or whatever here
◼
►
like that is the appropriate place that
◼
►
they're asking you to do that there so
◼
►
find places like that and and use that
◼
►
to your advantage because honestly in
◼
►
this business you have to be some degree
◼
►
of self promotional because there's so
◼
►
much out there there's so many other
◼
►
apps there's so many other services
◼
►
there's so many other consultants no
◼
►
matter what you're doing in the in the
◼
►
mobile app development business it's
◼
►
crowded these days and you have to stand
◼
►
out somehow there are so many people out
◼
►
there who don't do any reasonable amount
◼
►
of self-promotion who can't do it right
◼
►
or who don't do it right if you can just
◼
►
do that correctly at all you don't even
◼
►
have to be great it just just be ok at
◼
►
it and that will put you in like the top
◼
►
5% of pretty much everybody else out
◼
►
there doing the exact same thing as you
◼
►
so that helps a lot and I would even
◼
►
argue that if you're the kind of person
◼
►
who who is just really having a hard
◼
►
time with self-promotion and who really
◼
►
can't do it I would argue that you're
◼
►
probably better off working for a
◼
►
company than working on your own because
◼
►
it's such an important part of working
◼
►
on your own that if you can't do it
◼
►
someone else should be doing it for you
◼
►
yeah and I think that's a great part
◼
►
like aspect that I need always need to
◼
►
remind myself about where just because
◼
►
like I got into this business to write
◼
►
software like to sit open Xcode and work
◼
►
in there and just because that's what
◼
►
I'm good at and just because that's what
◼
►
I like like doing most doesn't somehow
◼
►
mean that the other aspects of running a
◼
►
software business like go away that like
◼
►
they're not going to like somehow like
◼
►
oh well that's what I do so I'm just
◼
►
going to do that it's like no there are
◼
►
many aspects to running a business that
◼
►
I have to do and like some of them I can
◼
►
like I have an accountant who files my
◼
►
taxes for me because that's in a very
◼
►
vital important part of my business but
◼
►
it's something that I really don't want
◼
►
to do that's something that she is way
◼
►
better at doing than I am so I have her
◼
►
have someone do that and so when I think
◼
►
about something like marketing which is
◼
►
a which is really but all of this is
◼
►
like this is promotion and publicity and
◼
►
marketing like it there are it's a
◼
►
division within a bigger company it's
◼
►
even if it's not something that I want
◼
►
to do or feel qualified or skilled at
◼
►
doing it's still something that's
◼
►
important for me to get you know develop
◼
►
that skill get better at etc because
◼
►
it's not gonna if it doesn't happen it's
◼
►
not like that's fine it's problematic
◼
►
for my business and in in a big way -
◼
►
its key of having the mindset after that
◼
►
if I don't do this then all the work I'm
◼
►
doing in Xcode is in many ways kind of
◼
►
diminished because fewer people are
◼
►
going to benefit from it you know fewer
◼
►
people are going to see the products I
◼
►
make and that's like I'm sort of like
◼
►
shooting myself in the foot and so it's
◼
►
like it has to be done and so it's like
◼
►
yeah it's these thing weird things are
◼
►
having to relieve think about how can I
◼
►
get better at this like how can I find
◼
►
be ok with and like under you know with
◼
►
marketing myself what are things that I
◼
►
should be doing that I don't you know
◼
►
like a lot of my apps don't have good
◼
►
really great websites or social media
◼
►
presences or things like there are
◼
►
aspects of them that I think about that
◼
►
I'm like should I be doing more in that
◼
►
should I not like does it matter
◼
►
and maybe in our business like
◼
►
specifically in the app store I don't
◼
►
know the degree to which you having a
◼
►
good website matters but it's definitely
◼
►
something that I know I have to keep
◼
►
reminding myself because my default is
◼
►
never gonna be oh like focus ton on
◼
►
marketing because that's not what I'm
◼
►
like good at or skill that and got into
◼
►
this business to do in the first place
◼
►
we are brought to you this week by
◼
►
Pingdom start monitoring your websites
◼
►
and servers today at Pingdom comm you
◼
►
get a 14-day free trial and you offer a
◼
►
code radar at checkout you get 20% off
◼
►
your first invoice once again it's code
◼
►
radar at checkout for 20% off your first
◼
►
invoice at Pingdom pink Emma's focused
◼
►
on making the web faster and more
◼
►
reliable for everybody who has a website
◼
►
they do this by offering powerful and
◼
►
easy to use monitoring tools and
◼
►
you can monitor the availability and
◼
►
performance of your server your database
◼
►
or your entire website and by the way
◼
►
you don't actually have to own the
◼
►
website you can monitor other people's
◼
►
websites for things like uptime or
◼
►
changes like underscore and I we we used
◼
►
to run these checks to monitor the WDC
◼
►
site for changes so that we could be the
◼
►
first to know when the new year of WBC
◼
►
tickets were announced and we could go
◼
►
buy them before the lottery system it
◼
►
actually worked really well didn't it
◼
►
yeah I mean their their ability to
◼
►
detect changes is way better than any
◼
►
other system I've ever used so it's like
◼
►
when we were back in the day when it was
◼
►
this mad rush to get it to get to WB DC
◼
►
and oh man I'm so glad those aren't the
◼
►
days anymore but yeah that's like I'd
◼
►
get you know my phone would just light
◼
►
up like a Christmas tree
◼
►
every time tickets were available for
◼
►
WGC and I would know like within a few
◼
►
seconds of the you know Apple publishing
◼
►
the change I knew about it because
◼
►
Pingdom is really on it and really
◼
►
responsive to like detecting these kinds
◼
►
of things yeah I mean and I've I have
◼
►
used Pingdom myself since April of 2007
◼
►
firstly you know use it a tumbler you
◼
►
said it Instapaper use it at overcast
◼
►
and I use it for my own blog for during
◼
►
during most of that time as well I still
◼
►
use it then so I have been using Pingdom
◼
►
for longer than the iPhone has been out
◼
►
the first iPhone like so to give you
◼
►
some idea you know way before they're
◼
►
responsive I've been using them for a
◼
►
long time I have a lot of experience
◼
►
with them they're great I strongly
◼
►
recommend that if you have any kind of
◼
►
website or web service that you care
◼
►
about at all from a blog to a service
◼
►
that your apps depend on to a marketing
◼
►
page or whatever else have Pingdom
◼
►
monitor it because first of all you'd be
◼
►
surprised how often you have a little
◼
►
outages at your host and that's good to
◼
►
know and when you know doing things like
◼
►
deciding what what hosts to go with or
◼
►
what kind of hosts to go with and you
◼
►
know you can get things fixed quickly I
◼
►
I just I cannot recommend Pingdom enough
◼
►
because here's what you don't want to
◼
►
happen you don't want for you know for
◼
►
you to be out all day and then you
◼
►
launch your Twitter app and then you see
◼
►
that six hours ago people on Twitter
◼
►
started telling you hey your site's down
◼
►
hey your site's down hey your site's to
◼
►
not good that's not good for your
◼
►
reputation it's not good for possibly
◼
►
your income if your site is what
◼
►
generates your money it certainly does
◼
►
not look very professional if you have
◼
►
to wait until people on Twitter tell
◼
►
your site is down before you realize
◼
►
it's down with Pingdom you are the first
◼
►
to know it can check your site as often
◼
►
as once a minute and it can text you it
◼
►
can send push notifications it can send
◼
►
emails it can do all those things or
◼
►
some of those things none of those
◼
►
things or some of those things
◼
►
conditionally based on how severe it is
◼
►
it is so great I again I've been using
◼
►
it since 2007 strongly recommend it
◼
►
check it out go to Pingdom calm for a
◼
►
14-day free trial and use code radar to
◼
►
get 20% off at checkout thanks a lot to
◼
►
ping them for sponsoring us once again
◼
►
all right so I think it's interesting to
◼
►
to consider you know all these these
◼
►
marketing angles and everything as you
◼
►
know what's appropriate and what's not
◼
►
obviously we can talk about this
◼
►
academically and and it seems like I
◼
►
have a slightly easier time than you do
◼
►
I started earlier the path towards self
◼
►
promotion so you know at as you as you
◼
►
know all the same things I do you know
◼
►
as you can think about the same things
◼
►
rationally what are the irrational
◼
►
pressures or fears or conflicts that you
◼
►
feel about this that other people might
◼
►
relate to that you know and and can you
◼
►
talk about maybe like just like the
◼
►
feeling side of this like once you know
◼
►
what you should be doing what still
◼
►
stops you from doing it and what might
◼
►
be a way that you could overcome that
◼
►
yeah the one that comes to mind the most
◼
►
and I think this is it's like at the
◼
►
core of so much of these challenges is
◼
►
it's like putting yourself out there
◼
►
where I mean I still do every time I
◼
►
write up an email to the press I always
◼
►
have this feeling of like I can be so
◼
►
proud of my app and what it does and how
◼
►
and I'm sitting down to write this to
◼
►
somebody and I get nervous and worried
◼
►
and like what if they don't like it what
◼
►
if they hate it what if they are gonna
◼
►
you know reject me or be mean to me or
◼
►
whatever like you can give these various
◼
►
like you know sort of visceral feelings
◼
►
that and I think around marketing and a
◼
►
lot of these kind of like self
◼
►
promotional things there is certainly an
◼
►
element of that of this whenever anytime
◼
►
that you are sort of really sort of
◼
►
putting out your name in a way in a
◼
►
public obvious way intentionally drawing
◼
►
attention to yourself it's like you're
◼
►
also setting yourself up for the
◼
►
possibility of someone not liking you
◼
►
and I think the thing that you have to
◼
►
at certain point come to grips with is a
◼
►
like there's always going to be people
◼
►
who don't like you like no matter how
◼
►
likeable you are there's always going to
◼
►
be that and there's a certain amount of
◼
►
just like you have to get Bo be okay
◼
►
with that and not like get your you know
◼
►
your value from other people like you
◼
►
have to you know if I look at something
◼
►
I make and I think it's good then that
◼
►
at a certain point has to be enough that
◼
►
it is a can't it doesn't have to just be
◼
►
validated externally and but then it's
◼
►
also just V being and being aware that
◼
►
that's probably also not what's gonna
◼
►
happen like the number of times I've had
◼
►
the negative version of that you are
◼
►
like I can remember them because that's
◼
►
just the way human nature is that we
◼
►
think like the impact of the negative is
◼
►
what is disproportionate the impact are
◼
►
the positive you know hundred people can
◼
►
say a nice thing and one person can say
◼
►
a mean thing and you remember that mean
◼
►
thing but overall like that's not my
◼
►
experience and it's but it's having to
◼
►
overcome the emotional part of that of
◼
►
that feeling of just like that
◼
►
nervousness and the shyness I mean and
◼
►
it's the same thing that happens in in
◼
►
life like I remember we talked about
◼
►
this a couple weeks ago with going to
◼
►
tap YouTube EDC and looks like it's that
◼
►
same feeling of when I'd see someone
◼
►
that I'd recognize it's like oh should I
◼
►
go say hi like I'd love to meet them but
◼
►
being nervous about that and being
◼
►
nervous how the conversation will go and
◼
►
all these types of things when in
◼
►
reality it goes fine like that's just
◼
►
not the that's just not the reality like
◼
►
people are generally very polite and
◼
►
very nice and it'll go well but that
◼
►
certainly is a like a genuine feeling to
◼
►
overcome of that feeling of like is this
◼
►
good enough is it going to go well
◼
►
and so anytime you're drawing attention
◼
►
to yourself like that's just part of the
◼
►
bio that's just part of it but there's
◼
►
definitely that like kind of irrational
◼
►
feeling of like oh no like what if what
◼
►
if people don't like me oh sure I mean
◼
►
and and there's not I mean that's that's
◼
►
hard for like you know III would expect
◼
►
a lot of people who like computers who
◼
►
were roughly our age probably had a
◼
►
rough time socially in school growing up
◼
►
I sure did and it's and a lot of those
◼
►
pressures like come right back to life
◼
►
feeling like you're in high school again
◼
►
or middle school again and like getting
◼
►
socially rejected or romantically
◼
►
rejected and and there's like these
◼
►
deep-rooted scars that so many of us
◼
►
have from from growing up in that kind
◼
►
of situation and so it's really hard to
◼
►
overcome that feeling but the good thing
◼
►
is as you mentioned like you know people
◼
►
are generally nice and polite because
◼
►
you know what we aren't in high school
◼
►
anymore like everyone around us now as
◼
►
like as an adult and usually they're a
◼
►
lot like us similar back and so it's the
◼
►
the chances of like getting really
◼
►
scarred and and and rejected in the ways
◼
►
that we're all like consciously or
◼
►
subconsciously afraid of I think are
◼
►
pretty low you know we're we're adults
◼
►
now we're in we're in an industry now
◼
►
we're like you know we won like this we
◼
►
won the world like we don't have to
◼
►
worry about about about all those like
◼
►
emotional pressures anymore and you know
◼
►
in this industry and the way things work
◼
►
both in person and online you're not
◼
►
likely to get rejected if the worst that
◼
►
you can generally expect is to be
◼
►
ignored or to be lost in in the shuffle
◼
►
because there's just so much out there
◼
►
and that's you can't really if that
◼
►
happens and it will it happens to all of
◼
►
us you can't really take that personally
◼
►
because it's probably not for personal
◼
►
reasons like you know if if Apple
◼
►
doesn't pick you to be featured or if a
◼
►
website doesn't pick you to to write
◼
►
about or doesn't pick your app to review
◼
►
that week it might be because they
◼
►
didn't like it and they looked at it but
◼
►
it's probably not because of that it's
◼
►
probably because they got too much stuff
◼
►
and the order slipped through the cracks
◼
►
or they weren't or whatever yours did
◼
►
that's not that kind of thing they were
◼
►
looking for that week or you know
◼
►
there's so many other reasons that it is
◼
►
due to if if you if you do get ignored
◼
►
or passed over for something in this
◼
►
business that it's probably not personal
◼
►
it's probably not about your app your
◼
►
app might not even been looked at that's
◼
►
the reality of of getting rejected in
◼
►
this business today is that it's
◼
►
generally due to people being
◼
►
overwhelmed not due to anything personal
◼
►
against you and so the risk of putting
◼
►
yourself out there is is pretty low
◼
►
really and I think it's also that like
◼
►
one of the most impressive things is
◼
►
confidence and whether that is true
◼
►
confidence or kind of like more of a
◼
►
fake it till you make it kind of thing
◼
►
but the like that's something that I
◼
►
think Jen like universally people find
◼
►
impressive like coming back to high
◼
►
school or whatever like it's like the
◼
►
people because like the kids who were
◼
►
confident even if they're like comet
◼
►
like confidently strange are still cool
◼
►
like in in a way that is there is that
◼
►
is like that is the thing that we're
◼
►
sort of in in many ways and this is what
◼
►
I strived I'm sort of striving toward
◼
►
it's like being confident in what I make
◼
►
being confident in so sort of like the
◼
►
person I am and being able to be
◼
►
authentic about that then it is like
◼
►
that's something that's attractive
◼
►
that's something that is interesting and
◼
►
engaging and will start conversations
◼
►
and will open doors and those types of
◼
►
things I mean in some ways it's being
◼
►
hidden it's like even just having the
◼
►
confidence to ship in the first place is
◼
►
a huge thing to have accomplished and in
◼
►
marketing there's that same type of
◼
►
thing it's like that when I run into
◼
►
somebody and they ask me what apps they
◼
►
like in the OPI Co what apps do you say
◼
►
say oh what are you doing oh I'm a cap
◼
►
so have I ever have I heard of any it's
◼
►
like not being like oh probably not like
◼
►
the non confident responsive or it's
◼
►
like oh I make an app called pedometer
◼
►
plus plus it you know and yeah start
◼
►
with that don't even start with I make
◼
►
start with I make this particular ad
◼
►
here's what it is here's what's called
◼
►
here's what it does here's why you want
◼
►
it it's exactly and having that
◼
►
confidence that like this is something
◼
►
that they were going to be interested in
◼
►
and maybe they are maybe they won't but
◼
►
it's way better and it's gonna come
◼
►
across so much more appealing in a much
◼
►
more appealing way if you start with
◼
►
that confidence versus being like oh
◼
►
well you know I do stuff
◼
►
I kind of make stuff like that's not
◼
►
appealing that's not that you're not
◼
►
promoting yourself and you're doing your
◼
►
work a discredit as a result exactly all
◼
►
right that's all the time we have for
◼
►
this week everybody see is coming up
◼
►
really quickly now so we'll be talking
◼
►
about that probably more next week I
◼
►
would imagine everyone listening thank
◼
►
you for listening and I will see you at
◼
►
WTC wearing my own shirt nice I hope you
◼
►
see you next week all right bye