Under the Radar 60: Transferable Skills
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welcome to under the radar a show about
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independent iOS app development I'm
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Marco Arment and I'm David Smith under
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the radar is never longer than 30
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minutes so let's get started so today
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what we wanted to talk about I'm not
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really sure what the right word term for
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it is the one that comes into my mind
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when I was thinking about this topic is
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transferable skills or generally it's
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this feeling that I've been having
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recently about and I look at the various
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parts of making apps that aren't the
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actual sitting in Xcode Londa like
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writing code part there's a lot of
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different skills and techniques and
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abilities that go into the actual like
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production of software and a lot of them
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I was noticing that the place that I
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learned that skill it was very distinct
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from actual development so as an example
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the recently when I launched workouts
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plus plus I launched with a walkthrough
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video well which is sort of this long
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sort of like eight to ten minute you
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know screen by screen walkthrough of the
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app then I also have made a little like
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shorter like 30-second commercial and
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put these up on YouTube with the hope of
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trying to just kind of it's this you
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know if someone's on the fence about the
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app especially because it's paid upfront
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that maybe they'd watch the video get a
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sense of the app and then decide you
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know make an informed decision and I
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realized that I was able to make these
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videos with fairly low effort and time
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mostly because in the past I've messed
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around with making videos of other kinds
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whether they're sort of like for
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personal projects and that kind of thing
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or even if there was a period of time
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when I was doing like code tutorials on
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YouTube I tried that there was a couple
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few episodes of my old podcast
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developing perspective where I did them
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kind of like vlogs where I'd like sat
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and looked into the camera and recorded
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it that way and those project never went
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anywhere like they're not part of my
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business they're not big and significant
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in that way but by sitting down and like
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doing these things that are on the side
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or sort of these orthogonal separate
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projects but I keep finding time and
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time again is that I am building these
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skills that down the road I find huh
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interesting this is actually so
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thing that I need for my main job you
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know so for making these videos or
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making you have previews now like I'm
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comfortable in a Final Cut Pro but not
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you know which is useful to me now but I
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did not just sit down and try and learn
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it for the actual job I do and I find
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that this sort of pattern of having a
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rich set of side projects and little
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hobbies and things to try from time to
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time keeps coming back to inform my own
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work like my primary job again and again
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and so it seemed like something that was
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worth discussing as a important skill
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for kind of developing yourself and I
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think especially it's applicable as an
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independent developer where I have to do
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so much of this myself like I'm the one
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who is writing the code as well as the
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person who is making the promotional
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materials and making the marketing
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videos and doing all these different
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things that maybe if I was at a big a
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big startup there would be a marketing
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division that may have like a creative
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audio-visual person who really knows
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what they're doing and could probably
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make a better product than I could but
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like that's someone else's job whereas
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for me like that's my job yeah and you
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know it also as as indie developers like
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we we need a lot of stuff to be done
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ourselves because we often either don't
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have the the contacts on hand to call to
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do things like this for us and or we
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can't afford to have other people do it
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because like when you're an indie any
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expense that you spend on other people's
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labor is a lot of money usually like
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relative to what you're bringing in like
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hiring contract workers hiring services
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to make you things like videos and and
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designers this can be a substantial
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expense for Indies and often it is just
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completely not within the budget or at
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least it would be it would be way too
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big of a portion of the budget to make
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it probably on a good idea so a lot of
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times you you as an Indian have to do a
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lot of this crazy stuff yourself you
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have to be able to make you know whip up
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a little like logo for things sometimes
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you have to like like if the App Store
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asks you for promotional artwork for
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your app for possible featuring in the
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store you have to you have to design
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something that fits their requirements
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which change over time and are always
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it's like you can't just have a designer
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make something once and and be done
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forever like you have to be able to whip
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stuff together in that in that way for
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like for something that that you might
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have to get done by like tomorrow at
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noon or you kind of need to do this
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right now to have this opportunity or
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something like that and you know things
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like as you see the videos are another
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excellent example of like you know if if
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you have an app and Apple announces hey
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now you can do app previews in the app
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store if you already know the basics of
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how to cut together a video that's that
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looks halfway decent that puts you way
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ahead of so many other people who will
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never do that can't do that very well or
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just would never even try because they
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would think it's impossible and so to
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have that kind of transferable skill
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just from side projects it's incredibly
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valuable I mean and and as you as you
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get older I think it serves you well to
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to add to that repertoire as much as you
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possibly can when you have the chance so
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to do crazy side projects it's to try
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out some new tool or some new medium or
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something else you know try out new
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stuff have little side projects even if
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they don't go anywhere themselves they
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will build up those skills in you and
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you will probably need them at some
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point down the road yeah and I feel like
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- there's this interesting thing with
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these types of skills is that in some
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ways like the older I get the more I
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understand that like there is certainly
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something to be said for being like
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super super expert at something like
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somebody who can do one thing
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extraordinarily well sound like there's
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a value of it to that both you know in
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it professionally as a society like this
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is important for some people to go down
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that road but I know for myself what I
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found is that it's like it's more jet
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it's probably more applicable and
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flexible to try to consciously develop a
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broad range of skills to apply to you
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know to apply to different areas of your
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work and so to be able to do lots of
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I mean it's helpful both obviously in
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terms of like if you're trying to get a
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job you know if you're trying to market
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yourself as something like it's great if
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you can do this one thing and that's the
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exactly what someone's looking for but
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if you're looking for a job and like you
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can do lots of things pretty well and be
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a good quick learner of the other stuff
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like that's probably more attractive to
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you know to a person but it's also just
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honestly I find that it's more fun for
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me to have this kind of a perspective a
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skillset and an ability to be able to
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try so many different things and be able
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to do like a lot of things basically
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competently not like well like I can't
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you know the things I can do in
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Photoshop or in Final Cut are not fancy
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they're not like I'm not a graphic
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I'm not a videographer or whatever but I
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can do these things too enough of a
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level that it's fun and it's interesting
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and it's clean its competent like
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there's not just glaring mistakes and
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huge problems and it's kind of a nice
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thing to be able to do that and honestly
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I think if it's part of what it's
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allowed me to stay interested and
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excited and the kind of work that I do
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you know like I've been making iOS apps
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now for a very long time and in many
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ways I'm kind of like bored with making
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iOS apps but the the core mechanics of
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making iOS apps is not the thing that is
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as nearly as exciting as all the various
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other things that go into being you know
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being self-employed especially and like
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it's fun to find these new these new
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things that to try and pull into your
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work to you know just to try something
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new and keep it fresh and interesting
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that if you don't I feel like I just get
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bored and then I don't know what I do I
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don't know what else I'd do like this is
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certainly the skill that I have the most
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and would make sense for me to continue
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to pursue but it's definitely something
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that I'm glad that I can add this
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diversity and sort of vibrancy into my
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work by looking for those side projects
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by looking for the hobbies and then in
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my own work looking for huh what can I
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learn take from this experience and put
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into you know my into my own work it
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also just it gives your brain different
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outlets so for different different types
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of work and satisfaction and challenge
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and creativity you know all these
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different types of work that we do serve
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those needs and provide different levels
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of fulfillment all differently and so
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I make apps and that satisfies like my
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programmer brain I also do podcasts and
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I added them fairly creatively and and
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and like that and sometimes I even write
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blog posts and and these are all
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completely different types of creative
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or intellectual outlets and they and
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like if I don't do any one of them for a
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long time like I'm not as satisfied I'm
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not as intellectually satisfied and
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happy as if I'm do if I'm satisfying all
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these different things you know often
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and then you know I'll go in - I'll go
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in phases where I will get more or less
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into photography and I recently even
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started doing video attempts and these
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are you know it's it's all this all
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serves multiple purposes you know as you
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mentioned like it is nice to have just
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the break it in but to me it's also nice
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to be able to develop different parts of
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your creative and intellectual mind and
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and then 2sat it to exercise and satisfy
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those in different ways yeah and you are
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so it's it's also probably just it's a
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weird thing to say but I feel like it's
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it's a development look it's also a
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discipline to think of for yourself of
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looking at our our past experiences and
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trying to see if there are any things in
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there that like make us you better at
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like the job at hand you know so we're
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like if I look at my job it's like I'm
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trying to make apps but I can look at my
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past experience like what do i what
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experiences do I have that mode make me
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distinctly good at this and where can I
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draw that from and like it may come from
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things that aren't as obvious or aren't
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as like straightforward like you know in
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some ways I recently have been doing a
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lot of health and fitness apps and it's
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like some of that I'm drawing from
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obviously my own experience I wouldn't
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say like I'm a huge person who like me
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I'm like I'm like a gym rat who works
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out all the time but I've had a fairly
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active lifestyle for quite a while and
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it's like I can draw from those
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experiences to be doing to an inform and
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make my products better whereas someone
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who didn't have that experience who'd
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never you know gone to a gym in their
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life couldn't really do the kind of apps
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that I do and that's just an example of
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the things that we do in our lives that
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we couldn't use as a like an unfair
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advantage because most of like being
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able to be successful like it's always
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so often it is predicated on finding
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this little bit of leverage that is
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somewhat unique to us that we can apply
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in a way that it gives us an unfair
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advantage over our competitors because
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if we're just all the same then I guess
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it's just completely random who's gonna
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win but if you can find a reason that's
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just like here's this thing that I can
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do like I'm the person who had you know
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has an active lifestyle who's been
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making mobile apps for a while
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Apple introduces this new API I jump in
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and dive in I dive into it and start
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using it like that narrows down the
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world of people who can do that thing
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and so looking back at our lives and
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being like what if what do we do what
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are we interested in like what hobbies
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do we have you know what what does that
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look like is it really I think good is a
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good bit of like a mental discipline of
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like that introspection is probably a
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helpful thing to make sure that we're
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not like missing some skill or ability
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that we have that we could be leveraging
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somehow in our work oh yeah because like
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the the business implication you know
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like so there was like the you know the
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intellectual and creative satisfaction
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implications of having all these
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different skills that's one thing but as
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you mentioned like the business side of
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this is also incredibly important you
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know because it goes beyond just like
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you know what do I know that other
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people don't know about making a new
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type of app X into like if you have a
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bit more broad or varied or specialized
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perspective into the world you will not
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only have skills that not every other
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iOS programmer has but you will also be
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able to identify opportunities and
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identify new markets new kinds of apps
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that can be made or markets that are
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incredibly underserved or badly served
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by what's out there now you will see
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those before the whole rest of the world
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will ever see them because you'll you
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already be in that world like you know
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like every time I go to the dentist I
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always laugh at like how incredibly bad
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their software looks on the screen
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that's and that's in the the cleaning
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rooms and it's it's like not Windows 95
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software I'm just like you know not a
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our dental hygienists and so they they
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don't see this this isn't a totally
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underserved market and if you happen to
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be an iOS developer who's also a dental
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hygienist you could you would see this
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and you might be able to make better
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software that would help this market and
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that's it's an area where almost no
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one's competing right and so like this
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is like there's so many different things
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like almost everybody has some some need
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or or hobby or skill in their life that
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is fairly unusual among other developers
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and you know use that like one of the
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reasons I was able to to develop all the
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overcast audio filtering stuff a couple
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years ago is that I've been playing with
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audio my entire life like I've always
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been obsessed with audio I was doing
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compression analysis and and weird like
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attempts at horrible hacks and audio
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processing since long before I was an
◼
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iOS developer I've just always loved it
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I've always measured that I've always
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you know done a lot of research about it
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and and and known and known a lot about
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it and you know it's just one of these
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things like that helped me out
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tremendously I could also take a decent
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picture sometimes and so when I made
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Instapaper and I needed an icon and I
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had no money to give anybody else to
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make me an icon I just took a pretty
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good picture of the pages of a book and
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I put like a little stupid Photoshop
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►
border around it and in retrospect it
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looked terrible but it was good enough
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►
for the time like it was totally fine
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►
and and I didn't I didn't have any
◼
►
choice I couldn't afford a designer at
◼
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that time so I just did what I could
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with my existing skills put it out there
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and it worked fine it was good enough
◼
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and you know same thing like with with
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screenshots with a lot of icon design
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►
that I do inside the app like you know
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►
now like I still have my my app icon
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►
that was designed by a real designer
◼
►
Louise Mantia but my all the all the
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►
icons that are in the app I've designed
◼
►
myself because that's good enough for
◼
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you know for my purposes like I've I
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developed a skill to be good enough and
◼
►
it works and then I'm able to make new
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icons to make adjustments to change
◼
►
things like colors and thickness and and
◼
►
and alignment and everything else to
◼
►
make little tweaks without having to go
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►
back and forth to designer and pay a
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bunch of money because I have the skill
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now like the basically the smartest
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thing you can do with these skills is
◼
►
like find ways to rope them into your
◼
►
business wherever possible so that's not
◼
►
to say that every that you shouldn't
◼
►
have anything that's just that's just
◼
►
randomly fun but if you have other
◼
►
skills that could be useful in your
◼
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isn't it like if you're looking to
◼
►
develop some kind of visual artistry
◼
►
skill and you happen to make iOS apps
◼
►
well you know what you have a really
◼
►
great opportunity right there to tie
◼
►
those things together and to to design
◼
►
the stuff in your app using your
◼
►
newfound visual artistry skills like
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►
there are there are lots of
◼
►
opportunities that you will have as a
◼
►
developer to integrate multiple skills
◼
►
in and I think what we're saying this
◼
►
episode is you really should and you
◼
►
should consider learning different types
◼
►
of skills or experimenting with
◼
►
different types of things that could
◼
►
benefit your apps we are sponsored this
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week by xoj oh go to so Joe calm that's
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but I really want to there's another
◼
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skill I feel like I should probably
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your app say on the Mac for instance the
◼
►
and then you can just check a checkbox
◼
►
and have a completely native Windows
◼
►
version as well it really is that simple
◼
►
so Joe uses native controls so your app
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your app looks at home on every platform
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that it runs on you'll be able to you'll
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be able to build apps 10 times faster
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which will save you time and this is
◼
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also especially useful for indie
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developers right here because you can't
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afford like a separate Android and iOS
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Department no you can just use Oh Joe
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fry one app and you can cover all these
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different platforms it is great for
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everyone newbies to professional
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developers it's currently used by over
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300,000 developers worldwide from
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students to Fortune 500 companies so go
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take a look at their site you will see
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just how many companies you recognize
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who use xoj oh and it's free to use and
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you just need a license too if you want
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to build a standalone application so you
◼
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can you can try it out you could develop
◼
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with it for free but if you want to
◼
►
build a standalone app you need a
◼
►
license go to xoj o comm it's XO j o
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►
comm slash radar to find out more and
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listeners of the show can get 20% off
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any license with code radar 20 once
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again so Joe comm slash radar code radar
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20 thank you so much - so Joe for their
◼
►
support of this show so given the
◼
►
benefits that we're kind of extolling
◼
►
about having side projects and having
◼
►
these things that you do to kind of
◼
►
build a breadth of skills and
◼
►
experiences it doesn't mean that it does
◼
►
come to mind to me though is the the
◼
►
difficulty often in starting a new
◼
►
project and so one I think it made sense
◼
►
to wrap this up by kind of talking about
◼
►
that process of having an idea for a
◼
►
project a side thing and then actually
◼
►
making it happen and like what comes to
◼
►
mind to me is like for a long time I've
◼
►
always been a longtime lover of podcast
◼
►
and I would listen to podcasts all the
◼
►
time and it was just like a big part of
◼
►
my day and I was head in the back of my
◼
►
mind like oh man I should get into that
◼
►
I should you know I should make a
◼
►
podcast I should do something for myself
◼
►
and for a long time I didn't and the
◼
►
advice that I actually ended up getting
◼
►
I think that's pretty sure this was from
◼
►
back to work for Maryland man is he was
◼
►
like if you if you have something in
◼
►
your mind that is that you keep saying
◼
►
to yourself like oh one day I'll do this
◼
►
one day I'll learn how to do that one
◼
►
day I'll kind of go through and build
◼
►
that discipline it's like what you
◼
►
really need to do is just look at this
◼
►
it's like make it very a time-bound
◼
►
goal and do that thing on a regular
◼
►
basis for that time and at the end you
◼
►
can decide is this actually something I
◼
►
like do I enjoy it is this or am I just
◼
►
kind of having this dream that I'm gonna
◼
►
love it and I'll actually try it and
◼
►
I'll hate it and so for me like I
◼
►
started the podcast I did before under
◼
►
the radar developing perspective I
◼
►
started it with a like this terrible
◼
►
Logitech USB headset microphone like I
◼
►
didn't don't body like don't like buy
◼
►
into the lie that you need all this
◼
►
equipment or you need all these fancy
◼
►
things before you can start like you can
◼
►
almost certainly start with just like
◼
►
what you have like your smartphone can
◼
►
most everything you could ever possibly
◼
►
need for creative project and so just
◼
►
like go with that and he said what I
◼
►
just said is like okay I'm gonna do an
◼
►
episode every day for I think I said
◼
►
about three weeks in so I did which was
◼
►
over 15 episodes 30 minutes her that was
◼
►
15 minutes or less and so like I'm just
◼
►
gonna do 15 15 minute episodes and if I
◼
►
can do that and then it get to the end
◼
►
of it like hey I can buy myself a good
◼
►
mic and so on like at that point if I
◼
►
decide that I want to do it but I found
◼
►
it was really helpful to look at a
◼
►
project like that and say it's like I
◼
►
just need to commit to it try it and
◼
►
then if I like it great if not you know
◼
►
I can move on it for me it turned that
◼
►
podcasting was great I enjoyed it and
◼
►
developing perspective for three or four
◼
►
years and we've been doing under the
◼
►
radar for over a year now
◼
►
like podcasting is something that is
◼
►
useful has been useful for my career in
◼
►
terms of building a bit of a brand and a
◼
►
personality online as well as it's like
◼
►
useful in other weird ways like like I
◼
►
said I did a walkthrough video for
◼
►
workouts plus plus and it involved a
◼
►
like a voiceover you know Mikey doing
◼
►
this voice-over work as I show how to
◼
►
use the app I did all the voice of work
◼
►
in one take mostly because I have done
◼
►
podcast for so long that speaking in an
◼
►
uninterrupted kind of hopefully vaguely
◼
►
coherent way is fairly natural now and
◼
►
similarly like doing having started
◼
►
podcasting the prospect of doing public
◼
►
speaking was a lot less scary like I
◼
►
used to think that was just like
◼
►
absolutely terrifying that I'd be
◼
►
standing up on stage and I just would
◼
►
have no words and I would just be
◼
►
standing there you know sort of
◼
►
dumbstruck with nothing to say I'm less
◼
►
worried about that now because I'm I
◼
►
have the I've built the muscle and the
◼
►
skill of sitting down in front of a
◼
►
microphone and just talking for a while
◼
►
and I got all that out of starting
◼
►
actually just deciding that yes I'm
◼
►
gonna try this I'm gonna try it and I'm
◼
►
gonna start it and then I do said did
◼
►
start it and then you know it worked out
◼
►
and if I've gotten to the end of that 15
◼
►
episodes and said you know what
◼
►
podcasting soft for me it's like okay
◼
►
that's great now I know that for sure
◼
►
rather than kind of like kidding myself
◼
►
about one day maybe sometime if I'm
◼
►
you know when I'm less busy I'll be able
◼
►
to do it like though that day is never
◼
►
going to come and so if you it actually
◼
►
isn't important to you you just need to
◼
►
in one day decide yes I'm gonna do this
◼
►
make it time down in short so you're not
◼
►
actually kidding yourself and saying I'm
◼
►
gonna do this for a year it's like no
◼
►
like maybe you'll do it for a couple of
◼
►
weeks and if you can do it at the end
◼
►
for do it for that amount of time maybe
◼
►
you'll want to do it for longer yeah
◼
►
I'd also say that it helps a lot to you
◼
►
know not only to to develop these skills
◼
►
and and to be creatively satisfied and
◼
►
to divide and to to find new markets for
◼
►
apps and everything it also helps to use
◼
►
what you have when choosing what to
◼
►
build in your apps use the skills that
◼
►
you have used the experience the wisdom
◼
►
the equipment if that if that's
◼
►
important to use what you have and to
◼
►
choose what to work on based on that so
◼
►
for instance I have now a lot of
◼
►
audio podcasting how to process audio
◼
►
how'd it how do you edit and create
◼
►
podcasts how to play podcasts so I am in
◼
►
a unique position here that most iOS
◼
►
developers are not in to do additional
◼
►
projects such as the mp3 encoder I'm
◼
►
working on the chapter tool that I'm
◼
►
working on and also possibly down the
◼
►
road a podcast editor app like those are
◼
►
all projects that I that should be on my
◼
►
roadmap and and might and some of them
◼
►
are you know those are all things that
◼
►
like it would be an interesting idea and
◼
►
probably a good idea for me to leverage
◼
►
what I have he said you're wonderful
◼
►
leverage were familiar leverage the
◼
►
knowledge and experience and code that I
◼
►
have to direct my future efforts right
◼
►
it wouldn't make as much sense for my
◼
►
next app to be like a calendar app
◼
►
because I like I would have no advantage
◼
►
over anybody else in making a calendar
◼
►
app I have none of my experience leads
◼
►
to that I have no existing code no
◼
►
existing domain knowledge they're like I
◼
►
would have to basically be relearning
◼
►
everything just like anybody else
◼
►
whereas if I made an audio editor that's
◼
►
like a really big complex thing that you
◼
►
could charge real money for probably and
◼
►
but most people couldn't just jump into
◼
►
them if anyone else wanted to make that
◼
►
they would have to first spend a while
◼
►
learning what I already know building
◼
►
code I've already written and getting
◼
►
experience I already have so like as I'm
◼
►
choosing what to work on next I have to
◼
►
think about like what is a good idea for
◼
►
me to work on next and and that that
◼
►
goes into other things like I know how
◼
►
to market things that are related to
◼
►
podcasts I like I know I have an
◼
►
audience that cares about such things I
◼
►
can there's there's some kind of
◼
►
opportunities for integrations between
◼
►
what I already have an app on cash
◼
►
related thing whereas if I'm a counter
◼
►
app next I have nothing I have I start
◼
►
from zero and so this it really helps to
◼
►
use what you have to help choose what
◼
►
goes into your portfolio at all I mean
◼
►
you're really good at this everything
◼
►
you do recently has had a substantial
◼
►
watch and fitness component because
◼
►
you're really good at watch stuff and
◼
►
Fitness stuff yeah and seeing that like
◼
►
has in a weird way if I have had to make
◼
►
peace with that like that you kind of
◼
►
have did there in my mind I kind of look
◼
►
at the world with like there's so many
◼
►
different types of development that I
◼
►
could want to get into that there's so
◼
►
many things that I could like ins was
◼
►
like a calendar app like I have ideas
◼
►
for a calendar app like I have an idea
◼
►
for almost every app of course like I
◼
►
have a massive list of things that are
◼
►
like one someday maybe maybe I'd love to
◼
►
build I had taken a little bit of kind
◼
►
of I never know like understanding to
◼
►
just look at myself and be like you know
◼
►
what I should do though I should make
◼
►
the things that I'm uniquely good at and
◼
►
the things that I have some more skills
◼
►
and experience at because while it could
◼
►
be interesting and fun to like make the
◼
►
other kind of crazy app and go in that
◼
►
direction like the reality is I'm
◼
►
probably wasting my time if I go in that
◼
►
way whereas if I do something that I you
◼
►
know I have this these abilities and
◼
►
skills and then I'm not and it's also in
◼
►
a weird way like I think when I think
◼
►
about transferable skills like I think
◼
►
about how in a weird way it's kind of a
◼
►
relief because it takes past failings or
◼
►
things that didn't really work out
◼
►
and lets you look at them in a more
◼
►
positive light that like so I think
◼
►
about like I did a serially this YouTube
◼
►
you know video serious teeth about like
◼
►
teaching it was like teaching people how
◼
►
to make watch apps it's like this idea
◼
►
that I had I put it on YouTube and a lot
◼
►
to go would watch it and it would be you
◼
►
know big exciting and it's this new line
◼
►
of sort of like business for me but a
◼
►
new big thing for me and I went nowhere
◼
►
like hardly anybody watch them it was
◼
►
ostensibly like a failure but if I can
◼
►
if I can look at it instead from a
◼
►
perspective of like take that experience
◼
►
break it down into the skills that I
◼
►
learned as a result from that like the
◼
►
learned skills are never a failure like
◼
►
the outcomes may have been failed like
◼
►
they didn't go anywhere and they were
◼
►
didn't really do anything but the things
◼
►
that I learned in the process of doing
◼
►
it is narrow that he's never wasted if I
◼
►
can find a place to then put that into
◼
►
my work and then now I can look at my
◼
►
work now and say yeah it's like here's
◼
►
the things that I can do I'm gonna make
◼
►
things that work in that that focus into
◼
►
that that used all these abilities that
◼
►
I've been building up over time often
◼
►
out of things that didn't work out in
◼
►
the past and then you know apply that
◼
►
into a new way and that just increases
◼
►
the odds because ultimately I'll be like
◼
►
we can own these are like guaranteed
◼
►
ways to be successful like it's like all
◼
►
we can do is just like turn the dial up
◼
►
slightly so that's like we have a
◼
►
slightly better chance of being
◼
►
successful we have a slightly better
◼
►
chance of making something like
◼
►
impressive and awesome and this also
◼
►
goes towards diversity of income and
◼
►
resilience of your you know financial
◼
►
independence to is like as you develop
◼
►
these other skills that that are
◼
►
separate from you know the raw iOS app
◼
►
development core skill that you're
◼
►
making your business you you then make
◼
►
it easier not only for you to have
◼
►
alternate income streams if you get good
◼
►
enough entities things you could
◼
►
actually make them side businesses but
◼
►
also when the next big thing comes along
◼
►
suppose the next big thing is some kind
◼
►
of combination of iOS apps video
◼
►
production and icon design like if you
◼
►
already have like the pieces necessary
◼
►
you can jump right into the next thing
◼
►
the next kind of thing that comes around
◼
►
faster and better than other people can
◼
►
who are starting from scratch or who
◼
►
have totally unrelated skills it really
◼
►
like all these things that we've been
◼
►
talking about about like
◼
►
how to basically be like us or at least
◼
►
how we how we'd like to be these all fit
◼
►
together the end this is all part of one
◼
►
big puzzle here that if you have diverse
◼
►
skills from different areas that you can
◼
►
bring together to make your iOS apps and
◼
►
possibly also have different audience
◼
►
growth from them or different revenue
◼
►
growth the revenue diversity from them
◼
►
that all fits together into making a
◼
►
successful in your developer all right
◼
►
and with all that said we are at a time
◼
►
this week thank you very much everybody
◼
►
for listening and we'll talk to you next