Under the Radar

◼   ► welcome to under the radar a show but

◼   ► independent iOS app development I'm

◼   ► Marco Arment and I'm David Smith under

◼   ► the radar is never longer than 30

◼   ► minutes so let's get started one star

◼   ► useless but a terrible review so today

◼   ► we're going to talk about the review

◼   ► system in the App Store

◼   ► mr. star I think we're gonna start off

◼   ► by talking about a little bit of way

◼   ► it's structured and it's maybe some of

◼   ► its origins and some of the implications

◼   ► of like the way our customers actually

◼   ► see that and then towards the end I

◼   ► think we're going to dive into a little

◼   ► bit of the way as a developer we should

◼   ► approach using you know you asking for

◼   ► reviews and dealing with reviews that

◼   ► are given to us and so on so the review

◼   ► system in the App Store is very much you

◼   ► can kind of tell that it is based on the

◼   ► review system for something like a movie

◼   ► or music or something you know the

◼   ► origins of the App Store's I've

◼   ► certainly call from iTunes and so you

◼   ► can kind of see that the trickiness of

◼   ► that is that it was definitely not

◼   ► designed for something like software

◼   ► that changes all the time that already

◼   ► changes often you know a movie or

◼   ► something you publish it and it's the

◼   ► same forever a software changes on a

◼   ► regular basis and so it was definitely a

◼   ► early on especially very awkward because

◼   ► reviews would just stay around forever

◼   ► and you have reviews bad reviews you

◼   ► know for you really said busted version

◼   ► you get a bunch of one-star reviews you

◼   ► submit the fix those one-star reviews

◼   ► were still there and so the vendor shape

◼   ► will went through and changed it so that

◼   ► now your reviews that are visible

◼   ► initially to the user are always based

◼   ► on your most recent version which is

◼   ► sometimes problematic when you first

◼   ► release a new version because that means

◼   ► that if you don't have I think it's five

◼   ► or so reviews for your application you

◼   ► don't just doesn't show any of them I

◼   ► think it's just essentially to prevent

◼   ► for the situation where if your first

◼   ► review was a one-star review or your

◼   ► first review is a five-star review

◼   ► they're not gonna say that that's their

◼   ► the rating for your your app just

◼   ► because you only have one so you need a

◼   ► certain number of them so it's a little

◼   ► awkward when you submit a new update and

◼   ► someone comes to look at your app and it

◼   ► says hey there's

◼   ► no you know there's no right ranking for

◼   ► this app which thank you sir it's an

◼   ► implication at least if it's like that's

◼   ► not good well it's not necessarily bad

◼   ► directly but anyway that's sort of the

◼   ► way it goes but I think star ratings

◼   ► especially are very powerful indicator

◼   ► to our customers about the quality of

◼   ► our apps because they're one of the few

◼   ► things that are shown to the user when

◼   ► they first you know and then they're

◼   ► first looking at the list of apps so you

◼   ► know that isn't from me maybe it's the

◼   ► right way to say it you know so they you

◼   ► if you search for one of my apps in the

◼   ► App Store it pops up you'll see the icon

◼   ► I made the name I gave it the first few

◼   ► lines of the description it's

◼   ► screenshots and then the stars and the

◼   ► stars are the only part of that that are

◼   ► all right isn't marketing isn't just me

◼   ► making stuff up because obviously

◼   ► everyone's gonna say my app is great my

◼   ► app is awesome the stars have this vague

◼   ► sense of objectivity to them and so I

◼   ► think they have probably a fairly

◼   ► significant impact on what customers

◼   ► think about an app and with how you know

◼   ► how likely they are to download it and I

◼   ► think I've seen that definitely in terms

◼   ► of my own downloads where I know that if

◼   ► my star rating starts to go down or I do

◼   ► a new update and the star rating

◼   ► disappears for a couple of days that it

◼   ► can have a noticeable immuno reduction

◼   ► in downloads that if it's not like they

◼   ► go to zero but it's you know there's 20

◼   ► 30 percent of my downloads will start

◼   ► will go away for a period until I'm able

◼   ► to build that up and so I think it's

◼   ► something that we have to deal with as

◼   ► developers to make sure that we're like

◼   ► aware of that the importance of this and

◼   ► then also it's like really awkward

◼   ► because you get into all the tricky

◼   ► things that you can get into where

◼   ► people start you know paying people to

◼   ► review their apps paying people to give

◼   ► it five star reviews which you know it

◼   ► eventually if Apple you know catches you

◼   ► doing that they'll pull you out of the

◼   ► App Store for that kind of thing but

◼   ► it's this really strange tension of

◼   ► where is the appropriateness there you

◼   ► know how how is asking for a review fine

◼   ► is asking for a review in a in the app

◼   ► okay is it fine out somewhere outside of

◼   ► the app etc but it's all a big mess but

◼   ► ultimately and probably the best place

◼   ► to start is just the importance of that

◼   ► star rating and

◼   ► trying to keep it up yeah I mean it

◼   ► looks like a lot of the AppStore it's

◼   ► the kind of thing where like the system

◼   ► is not perfect we as developers have to

◼   ► basically grin and bear it we have to

◼   ► work around its flaws or tolerate its

◼   ► flaws or you know somehow just

◼   ► accommodate them but also like it's hard

◼   ► to imagine a lot of better systems like

◼   ► I have tons of ideas and how they could

◼   ► improve user reviews on the App Store

◼   ► but it's not going to be like a massive

◼   ► improvement like it's if they're gonna

◼   ► have user reviews at all they're doing

◼   ► an okay job of it again not not a

◼   ► wonderful job but an okay job of it you

◼   ► know and and again like changing it

◼   ► would be incremental not revolutionary

◼   ► and and I do think it is it serves a

◼   ► useful purpose to have user reviews like

◼   ► you know I've often thought there's a

◼   ► lot of contexts in which there are no

◼   ► user reviews you know on your own sales

◼   ► page like that's how the web works like

◼   ► you know if you go to buy software and

◼   ► you go to the company's website they're

◼   ► not gonna have a set well they usually

◼   ► aren't going to have a section of random

◼   ► user submitted unfiltered reviews you

◼   ► know they're gonna handpick you know

◼   ► they're gonna cherry-pick what good

◼   ► things have been said about them and

◼   ► that's gonna be all you see and it's

◼   ► weird to have like on the page that

◼   ► everybody will go to even if somebody

◼   ► goes to your site for an iOS app fully

◼   ► intends to get it you send them through

◼   ► to click through to the App Store page

◼   ► for them to actually download it and

◼   ► they're seeing that those star reviews

◼   ► so you can't escape your customers will

◼   ► always see those star reviews so they

◼   ► are probably important from that point

◼   ► of view however I really don't know how

◼   ► important the nitty gritty details are

◼   ► for customers so for instance I think

◼   ► the average star rating that people see

◼   ► is probably fairly important you know

◼   ► you said you've seen a dip in downloads

◼   ► when that when it's been too early for a

◼   ► version to show a rating can you tell

◼   ► have you did have you like isolated

◼   ► enough variables to really have any idea

◼   ► whether it matters whether it's like two

◼   ► star 4 star average um not not quite to

◼   ► that level I don't like I think there's

◼   ► I've seen

◼   ► measurable impacts when you have a bad

◼   ► version that is a really bad rating

◼   ► where the you know the number it's like

◼   ► I don't know if there's a difference

◼   ► between being four four and a half or

◼   ► five you're like if you're on the high

◼   ► end like the difference between those I

◼   ► haven't been at quite been able to

◼   ► narrow it down but I think there's

◼   ► definitely an impact like if you have a

◼   ► really bet really low rating is really

◼   ► bad and probably even in some ways worse

◼   ► than having no rating at all because

◼   ► like the people it's like the active and

◼   ► the active statement of like this app is

◼   ► bad rather than like I don't know what

◼   ► is this app that's true but but there is

◼   ► definitely something funny there too I

◼   ► think it's also interesting that in the

◼   ► app store they show the number of

◼   ► reviews that have been left like in the

◼   ► little parentheses after the star rating

◼   ► and I feel like that number is also

◼   ► probably somewhat indicative as well

◼   ► because think if the efficient you know

◼   ► it's like five stars four views or

◼   ► whatever you know a very small number

◼   ► I probably carries a lot less weight

◼   ► than if you have you know 1,600 reviews

◼   ► and the average rating is five stars

◼   ► like that also care has more weight to

◼   ► it probably that but yeah it's a really

◼   ► awkward thing to try and like actually

◼   ► isolate and work out the impact because

◼   ► it's such a fluid thing and it's not you

◼   ► know as a devout as a developer we don't

◼   ► have any direct control over and so it's

◼   ► like you can like run an experiment of

◼   ► like let me try running the App Store if

◼   ► I have a five star review let me see if

◼   ► I have a four star review so Joe is just

◼   ► kind of more anecdotal and kind of just

◼   ► gut feeling about how it how it works

◼   ► yeah I mean you know as somebody like I

◼   ► buy things and Amazon all the time I

◼   ► occasionally will look for new apps on

◼   ► either iOS or even the Mac App Store and

◼   ► as a buyer like that what I'm looking at

◼   ► reviews I hardly ever read any actual

◼   ► post posted review text right but I

◼   ► almost always will look at the average

◼   ► star rating and the and the approximate

◼   ► number of ratings and that's the one

◼   ► thing like when I'm buying something on

◼   ► Amazon you know if I'm buying like

◼   ► something where there's a lot of fairly

◼   ► commoditized similar competition like a

◼   ► cable you know something like that like

◼   ► if there's one that has 900 reviews and

◼   ► a four and a half star average and

◼   ► there's one that has five reviews on

◼   ► five star Everidge you know that that

◼   ► stands out to me and I will pick the

◼   ► more popular one those figure I will

◼   ► figure there's probably some reason why

◼   ► they have so many more that that's

◼   ► probably a good sign it's just a larger

◼   ► sample set so to achieve a decent

◼   ► average with that big of a sample set is

◼   ► a pretty good sign compared to something

◼   ► with five reviews right and I have to

◼   ► imagine that most people will do the

◼   ► same thing with App Store reviews

◼   ► because it's it you know whatever we

◼   ► think of our apps and and our position

◼   ► of the market the way the way I think

◼   ► the market has has shown us over and

◼   ► over again that it actually works is

◼   ► very much like people buying basic

◼   ► cable's on ahem azan where it's like

◼   ► they're looking at a list of a thousand

◼   ► apps about looked the same and they're

◼   ► gonna just pick the one that has like

◼   ► you know that shows up near the top

◼   ► probably the one that's free if there is

◼   ► one that's free which is they're almost

◼   ► always is and they're gonna pick the one

◼   ► that has a decent looking you know name

◼   ► and icon and screenshot maybe and

◼   ► they're gonna and with decent ratings so

◼   ► in the aggregate I do think these are

◼   ► very important to to kind of just keep

◼   ► your average up and to try to get a good

◼   ► number of reviews that being said I

◼   ► think the specifics of like if you have

◼   ► an app that has mostly good reviews and

◼   ► there's one angry person who leaves a 1

◼   ► star and trashes you in their review

◼   ► even if even with stuff that isn't even

◼   ► true I mean look I my attitude both in

◼   ► you know personally and in my software

◼   ► development style my attitude inspires

◼   ► extreme feelings in some people and I

◼   ► get a lot of of those extremes and and

◼   ► some of that is great if most of it is

◼   ► great you know most of my reviews tend

◼   ► to be pretty positive but there's always

◼   ► with anything I do I could write a blog

◼   ► post saying the sky is blue and there

◼   ► will be one person raging against it on

◼   ► Twitter you know it's like anything I do

◼   ► because of my attitude and style there

◼   ► it okay it will anger a certain number

◼   ► of people right and so everything I do

◼   ► always has a small percentage of really

◼   ► negative response or reviews on it so

◼   ► you know even the best versions of

◼   ► overcast the best version of Instapaper

◼   ► like even like the most uncontroversial

◼   ► updates there's always a one-star review

◼   ► or two or three or four you know they're

◼   ► always there

◼   ► some of them get really rude and some of

◼   ► them are really personal but whatever it

◼   ► doesn't really so

◼   ► basically I've stopped reading them like

◼   ► because it's just I found it mostly

◼   ► unhelpful to read the reviews I find it

◼   ► much more helpful to pay attention to

◼   ► what people are saying via email and

◼   ► Twitter and even though I don't usually

◼   ► even respond to those and sometimes

◼   ► that's gets overwhelming I can't even

◼   ► read them all honestly but but usually I

◼   ► am able to keep up with reading them and

◼   ► you know the more engaged somebody is

◼   ► with trying to contact you and trying to

◼   ► use your app I think the more useful

◼   ► their feedback tends to be and so App

◼   ► Store reviews are kind of the bottom of

◼   ► the barrel like somebody can look at

◼   ► your app for three seconds and leave a

◼   ► review and they don't even like they

◼   ► didn't get to your contact link they

◼   ► didn't they didn't find your Twitter

◼   ► username like it's like there there's a

◼   ► lower barrier to entry there and to some

◼   ► degree that means you're gonna get more

◼   ► feedback that way which is often a good

◼   ► thing but it also means that the level

◼   ► of engagement these users and level of

◼   ► effort these users is pretty pretty low

◼   ► on average and so you're gonna get more

◼   ► of the crap that you should mentally

◼   ► filter out coming in through that

◼   ► channel than through other channels and

◼   ► so the way I look at like individual

◼   ► reviews the ones that are like onestart

◼   ► angry and everything is you know if I

◼   ► see one

◼   ► which again I've been seeing fewer and

◼   ► fewer because I stopped reading the

◼   ► reviews for the most part but if I if I

◼   ► see one making a reasonable point I will

◼   ► take mental note you know like okay this

◼   ► person really really hates you know my

◼   ► decision to remove this feature six

◼   ► months ago whatever okay you know that

◼   ► that's that's like kind of like an

◼   ► upvote in my head of like maybe I should

◼   ► reconsider that or or whatever else or

◼   ► maybe people want a way to address this

◼   ► problem that I removed forever ago but

◼   ► for the most part I don't think you have

◼   ► to worry that much about any individual

◼   ► review both score wise or its content

◼   ► because what matters way more to the

◼   ► people who are actually browsing for

◼   ► your app is the the number of reviews in

◼   ► the average star rating and I would be

◼   ► very surprised if a lot of people

◼   ► actually went through and read a

◼   ► meaningful number of review

◼   ► now this obviously is a bigger problem

◼   ► if you don't have very many reviews and

◼   ► so we'll get into this but like you know

◼   ► all the the the problem of like the

◼   ► occasional one-star angry people is

◼   ► magnified the fewer reviews you have

◼   ► because the you know the few reviews to

◼   ► kind of bury it or average it out or

◼   ► whatever else and so I've been lucky

◼   ► that overcast has almost always had a

◼   ► very large number of reviews and I think

◼   ► we'll talk after the after sponsor break

◼   ► about kind of how and why and and when

◼   ► and when not to ask for reviews because

◼   ► I think I think that does have an impact

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◼   ► show yeah because I think what the thing

◼   ► that's so tricky with all of these

◼   ► things with reviews is this planning

◼   ► this balance between like it's um it's

◼   ► it's a really it's an odd part of the

◼   ► development process because we don't

◼   ► have any direct control over it but it

◼   ► has a direct impact on us and there are

◼   ► very few things I think in the

◼   ► development process like one of the

◼   ► things that I love about being a

◼   ► developer is that like I'm telling my

◼   ► app what

◼   ► like it's a little bit control freaky

◼   ► like I enjoy that I can control all the

◼   ► behaviors all the aesthetics everything

◼   ► and everything in my app I can control

◼   ► because it exists you know as a result

◼   ► of like sitting on Xcode and making it

◼   ► but the reviews are completely out of my

◼   ► control like I have no direct way of

◼   ► doing that and instead and I think like

◼   ► we're just saying it's it's like any

◼   ► individual reviews probably not all that

◼   ► important but it's more important though

◼   ► is that we are able to encourage our

◼   ► customers to go there and a high enough

◼   ► volume of customers to go there such

◼   ► that you have a representative sample

◼   ► and obviously I prefer to be

◼   ► representative of customers who love my

◼   ► app and want to give it five stars and

◼   ► talk about it lovely but at the very

◼   ► least I want that number to be

◼   ► significant so that it isn't just

◼   ► drowned out by the one person who's

◼   ► angry or even just given that bad

◼   ► impression of like why does this app

◼   ► only have seven reviews like you kind of

◼   ► least in my mind I start to like I don't

◼   ► know what but exactly what the

◼   ► multiplier is but I'm like if the app

◼   ► you know it's like there's a certain

◼   ► like the audience and the customer base

◼   ► of this app is probably some multiplier

◼   ► of that and so if it's only like seven

◼   ► maybe the app is kind of is only used by

◼   ► a few handful of people and isn't that

◼   ► good and so there's a strange tension

◼   ► though and there was this that's

◼   ► probably three or four year years now

◼   ► but there was a big hoo-ha a couple

◼   ► years ago where around the like little

◼   ► pop-up dialogue said a lot of apps use

◼   ► where it you know you're using the app

◼   ► using the app then all of a sudden it

◼   ► pops up and says hey we're gonna review

◼   ► my app and there was an app there was a

◼   ► library called he was operator that was

◼   ► used in just over hundreds and hundreds

◼   ► of apps and got you know had this very

◼   ► aggressive version of that and I think

◼   ► it's that's it's something that I try

◼   ► and always avoid in my apps like I've

◼   ► never really felt great about doing this

◼   ► because the reality is like the reviews

◼   ► are primarily beneficial to me and

◼   ► they're beneficial to future potential

◼   ► customers the actual current customer

◼   ► who's using it the review doesn't really

◼   ► benefit them in any way directly other

◼   ► than like

◼   ► the vague sense that it makes my it

◼   ► helps me which helps them because it

◼   ► helps me to be wanting to make the app

◼   ► better for them but it's mostly just

◼   ► they're doing me a favor and so I need

◼   ► to look at it from that perspective and

◼   ► I think you know automats I've avoided

◼   ► putting in things to kind of ask for

◼   ► them for that because it is asking them

◼   ► a favor and it's like you don't want to

◼   ► you want to be really thoughtful if

◼   ► anytime you ask your audience for

◼   ► something but then I also look in the

◼   ► App Store and next reason this is top of

◼   ► mind for me is I just went through and

◼   ► added a little section in the settings

◼   ► area of pedometer plus plus where it

◼   ► says you know would you like please

◼   ► leave a review leave me a review really

◼   ► helps thank you essentially I can have a

◼   ► little button to go to the App Store to

◼   ► leave a review and I hadn't had one in

◼   ► there for a long time yep usually was

◼   ► reviewed fairly well but I was starting

◼   ► to look at look at it from the

◼   ► perspective of a new customer and I went

◼   ► into the App Store and I started you

◼   ► know searching for the terms that you

◼   ► would search for if you were going to

◼   ► try and find that app and what I was

◼   ► noticing is that I had various massively

◼   ► disproportionately lower number of

◼   ► reviews then my cus customers and based

◼   ► on like where we rank together our

◼   ► downloads are fairly similar which makes

◼   ► me think that a lot of it is coming just

◼   ► from the fact that I'm pretty sure a lot

◼   ► of those competitive competing apps have

◼   ► the like in-your-face pop-up hey go

◼   ► download the app and enough people go do

◼   ► that that their numbers look good but

◼   ► from a fresh customers perspective that

◼   ► means that my app looks like nobody uses

◼   ► it or being a very few or

◼   ► disproportionately fewer that you know

◼   ► our start of the actual average star

◼   ► rating is very similar but I have a

◼   ► tenth of the number of users or reviews

◼   ► left and so it's like now I've added

◼   ► this I don't feel great about it but I

◼   ► think putting it in AB you know it's in

◼   ► the bottom of the settings area it's the

◼   ► kind of thing that you'd probably only

◼   ► find if you are you know you've used the

◼   ► app a little bit and it's also you know

◼   ► it's never in it's never end going to be

◼   ► in the course of the core functionality

◼   ► of the app so in this case like showing

◼   ► you your steps it's not like you open it

◼   ► up to see your steps and you know your

◼   ► steps are hidden away behind something

◼   ► asking you to go and do it but I think

◼   ► the reality is not having one of those

◼   ► was

◼   ► kind of disadvantaged disadvantaged we

◼   ► was putting my putting myself at a

◼   ► disadvantage that it probably didn't

◼   ► need to be yeah I mean I I kind of came

◼   ► around to that as well and I came up

◼   ► with a a similar solution for overcast

◼   ► and an overcast 1.0 was released in was

◼   ► 2014 it was it was kind of right in the

◼   ► middle of a lot of this debate about

◼   ► about uh the the irate dialog box and

◼   ► and I mean these and these these rape my

◼   ► app boxes are now so ubiquitous like you

◼   ► know big apps like Instagram does it it

◼   ► bothered me all the time my bank chase

◼   ► the Chase Bank app does it I'm like

◼   ► really like I'm trying to posit a check

◼   ► and like this is like business stuff and

◼   ► you're interrupting my business stuff

◼   ► with my business bank for your stupid

◼   ► rape my app dialog for a bank app like

◼   ► that but yes it they're so ubiquitous

◼   ► and I I think you know what you said is

◼   ► is perfect about like you know you're

◼   ► asking the app is interrupting good

◼   ► usage of your app to do themselves an

◼   ► advertising favor and that's that's it

◼   ► kind of rubs me the wrong way as a

◼   ► customer and user of these apps and so

◼   ► in my apps I've always kind of been you

◼   ► know not only refusing to do that kind

◼   ► of interruption but for a while I would

◼   ► like with Instapaper and the magazine I

◼   ► never had a link even in settings or

◼   ► anything to rate cuz I just thought like

◼   ► kind of like the the pure angle kind of

◼   ► like back before I would do colon

◼   ► keywords after a title of an app you

◼   ► know I used to think well this is I want

◼   ► to do things like the pure proper way

◼   ► and this is just how things should work

◼   ► and sometimes how things should work

◼   ► isn't how things do work and and so you

◼   ► have to find some kind of compromise and

◼   ► so you know with all these little you

◼   ► know app store realities or shortcomings

◼   ► you know like like the keyword title

◼   ► thing I found a compromise of with

◼   ► overcast I actually couldn't name it

◼   ► overcast there was there was another app

◼   ► in the store with an exact name was a

◼   ► cloud file really dirty app so it wasn't

◼   ► even like the same kind of thing but I

◼   ► had to call it overcast something so I

◼   ► called her an overcast : podcast player

◼   ► like the the most basic honest short key

◼   ► word thing I could prove I could really

◼   ► come up with and and so with the with

◼   ► the user ratings thing I had a a similar

◼   ► kind of compromise with overcast 1.0

◼   ► it was it was clear this kind of thing

◼   ► was important so I wanted I wanted to

◼   ► address it somehow and so I just put in

◼   ► the settings area and in the settings

◼   ► screen it's still there now it's been

◼   ► unchanged since version 1.0 I have on

◼   ► the server side a when when overcast

◼   ► syncs it the the part of the sync

◼   ► response is the cached ratings count

◼   ► from iTunes because you can get it

◼   ► through the iTunes API this is the

◼   ► iTunes Search API so you can get your

◼   ► own ratings count from your server or

◼   ► directly from your app that way so the

◼   ► app keeps a record of the ratings count

◼   ► for the current version and so in the

◼   ► settings screen again it's been in there

◼   ► since 1.0 I have a simple item right

◼   ► next to the feedback item that says

◼   ► please rate overcast and below it it

◼   ► says 2014 people have rated this version

◼   ► and if that number is less than I think

◼   ► 50 it says only X people have rated this

◼   ► version and right below that it says

◼   ► overcast will never interrupt you for

◼   ► ratings and I think enough piece has

◼   ► worked remarkably so my thinking here is

◼   ► it's a simple polite relatively compact

◼   ► thing that encourages people who like

◼   ► the app to go support it in this way

◼   ► but it's not pushy about it and

◼   ► clarifies right there that they will

◼   ► never be interrupted so this is telling

◼   ► them that you know I thought about this

◼   ► very carefully like this is telling them

◼   ► that I respect them it's tell them right

◼   ► there I will never interrupt them for

◼   ► ratings so it's telling them I respect

◼   ► them I won't do this thing that everyone

◼   ► does that you hate and also please

◼   ► please rate it and if the number seems

◼   ► low especially when it's low enough to

◼   ► be prefixed with only that's kind of an

◼   ► additional push like here's how much I

◼   ► can actually use your support right now

◼   ► and I've never had to call attention to

◼   ► it in like in on Twitter or anything

◼   ► else like or I've never called attention

◼   ► to it in the app like it's just there in

◼   ► settings and it has always gotten enough

◼   ► reviews with remarkable speed that and

◼   ► part of that so you know I've been

◼   ► fortunate with overcast the user base is

◼   ► pretty sizeable now but even back like

◼   ► in the early days it was always that way

◼   ► that kind of approach like when you just

◼   ► respect people and and you you let

◼   ► people who like the app

◼   ► supported in this way in a reasonable

◼   ► way and without getting in their face

◼   ► and annoying in them that's great now

◼   ► that being said that's not gonna apply

◼   ► to every app and that's unfortunate you

◼   ► know it's one of the defenses back in

◼   ► the day when when these boxes were being

◼   ► debated was well they work and we need

◼   ► them and so I I think what you have to

◼   ► just keep in mind is that that's not the

◼   ► only approach that can work and while

◼   ► you do probably need some kind of easy

◼   ► way for people to rate your app doing it

◼   ► in a more respectful way like what we

◼   ► are doing and in our apps not you know

◼   ► not to toot our own horn too much but

◼   ► like doing this in a way that doesn't

◼   ► interrupt your user and annoy them is I

◼   ► think a far superior way to do it

◼   ► because it works well enough so like you

◼   ► don't need to be more pushy about it

◼   ► obviously these kind of ways do work

◼   ► well enough and it doesn't compromise

◼   ► the user experience and it doesn't annoy

◼   ► your your legitimate good customers so

◼   ► to me it's a win-win yeah and I think

◼   ► too there's like these kind of things I

◼   ► always do do also take the other I

◼   ► always try and take the other

◼   ► perspective to Oh finally I find the a

◼   ► rating style log very offensive or at

◼   ► least very annoying but I sometimes do

◼   ► wonder if my how many of my customers

◼   ► actually have that same a that same

◼   ► experience in the same perspective and

◼   ► it reminds me in many ways have the same

◼   ► way that like I don't like using a apps

◼   ► that have banner ads in them but I make

◼   ► apps that have Henner head's in them

◼   ► that I people use on a regular basis and

◼   ► doesn't seem to be a problem for people

◼   ► like fievel's thresholds for what they

◼   ► can support if they're annoyed by or

◼   ► what they consider you know undesirable

◼   ► they're certainly different I think then

◼   ► what I have and which is fine but it's

◼   ► also something that I was trying to keep

◼   ► in the back of my mind as I'm working on

◼   ► through these kinds of things is that

◼   ► well I may think that these things are

◼   ► really annoying maybe some people don't

◼   ► don't think they're annoying maybe some

◼   ► people think that they're actually

◼   ► useful they're like oh yeah I'd love to

◼   ► support the SAP I didn't know I could do

◼   ► that or you know this is something that

◼   ► I enjoy doing and they like being

◼   ► prompted to do it in the feeling of

◼   ► empowerment of that or whatever but I

◼   ► think whenever I was trying to wrestle

◼   ► with this a little bit is I think the

◼   ► approach that it probably makes sense

◼   ► for most developers

◼   ► is to like to keep keep an open mind in

◼   ► terms of like what I was just saying

◼   ► with myself of like well I may find

◼   ► these annoying my customers may not but

◼   ► not to take that to mean a as like a

◼   ► blank check if I can just like do

◼   ► whatever I want because someone might

◼   ► like it but to view it from perspective

◼   ► of like this is important this is

◼   ► something that I think I've been

◼   ► negligent in for a lot of my apps of

◼   ► making sure that I'm to giving them

◼   ► every opportunity to succeed and having

◼   ► a good rich set of reviews in the App

◼   ► Store is probably an important part of

◼   ► that but the way to approach it is to

◼   ► not just like jump all the way to 11 and

◼   ► be like yeah like just throw dialog

◼   ► boxes up every time they launch the app

◼   ► like no that's probably not right but

◼   ► instead when this is the approach thing

◼   ► I'm kind of planning to take with my

◼   ► apps going forward it's like I'm gonna

◼   ► I'm gonna do this incrementally like I

◼   ► used to have no dialog boxes at all I

◼   ► would just have the like a sentence or

◼   ► two in my release notes was the place

◼   ► that I typically did it where like in my

◼   ► changelog at the bottom I'd be like hey

◼   ► if you have a minute right or maybe

◼   ► that'd be great

◼   ► not only does nobody read those but

◼   ► people who do see them there never gets

◼   ► the bottom yeah so like that was you

◼   ► know by far the least of the least

◼   ► obtrusive version that hasn't been

◼   ► working perfectly so now I'm gonna put

◼   ► it in the settings area right I'm gonna

◼   ► I'm gonna I'm gonna put it there and I'm

◼   ► gonna engage the response then I'll see

◼   ► how that goes and I'm gonna if that's

◼   ► not enough if that's still not quite

◼   ► getting the outcome that I'd like I can

◼   ► you know put it in a different part of

◼   ► the settings area right now it's in the

◼   ► bottom maybe I'll move it up to the top

◼   ► and if that doesn't work maybe I'll

◼   ► periodically show it on the main screen

◼   ► but not in a modal way like this is even

◼   ► the mindset I'm trying to take though of

◼   ► like keeping my options open being

◼   ► respectful always and not wanting to do

◼   ► things that are complete you know like

◼   ► super user hostile but like keeping an

◼   ► open mind and doing this in

◼   ► incrementally and seeing like where is

◼   ► that point because my suspicion is and I

◼   ► think your experience certainly is a

◼   ► good example of this is like you can

◼   ► find a place where you're kind of

◼   ► hitting that balance between getting the

◼   ► outcome that you need because you don't

◼   ► do not that probably much of a

◼   ► difference between having you know one

◼   ► thousand and two thousand user reviews

◼   ► in the App Store for example like

◼   ► my guess is once you hit forward four

◼   ► digits like people are they get you got

◼   ► a sense of like wow that's a lot of

◼   ► reviews and so just gotta get whatever

◼   ► we have a mechanism such that you can

◼   ► hit that number consistently and once

◼   ► you can do that I think you're probably

◼   ► gonna be fine and so I'm just gonna

◼   ► start as basic as I can and I'm just

◼   ► gonna keep dialing it up slowly until I

◼   ► hit that point and see you know see

◼   ► where that actually is I give this

◼   ► approach four stars that seems

◼   ► reasonable I withhold the fifth until

◼   ► you do my favorite pet feature all right

◼   ► we're out of time this week thank you

◼   ► very much everybody for listening and we

◼   ► will talk to you next week bye