The Accidental Tech Podcast

251: Uninstall Your Water Reminder App!


  they expect a certain level of support [TS]

  for that money and I did not want to [TS]

  offer that level of support for the [TS]

  anticipated very low customer volume [TS]

  that this would probably generate and [TS]

  then secondarily I realized like there's [TS]

  actually like strategic benefits to this [TS]

  for overcast where if I supply the [TS]

  encoder and I and and I'm and I control [TS]

  the encoders UI and features for a bunch [TS]

  of popular podcasts and I also control [TS]

  the podcast app then I can do cool [TS]

  features [TS]

  I can implement new features I can I can [TS]

  extend the implementations of current [TS]

  features so for instance one of the [TS]

  features that observant listeners might [TS]

  have noticed in a TP and an overcast [TS]

  over the last couple of months is that [TS]

  I've had the ability to basically create [TS]

  invisible chapters chapters that don't [TS]

  show up in the chapter list but that at [TS]

  a certain time stamp show a certain [TS]

  image or a link or both and but-but-but [TS]

  just are not in the table of contents [TS]

  not in the list of chapters this is part [TS]

  of the mp3 chapter spec there's actually [TS]

  they actually say like oh not every [TS]

  chapter needs to be a member of a table [TS]

  of contents you could for instance show [TS]

  us just show something at a certain time [TS]

  but no apps implemented that both in the [TS]

  encoding or the playing side because I [TS]

  controlled the encoder and the player I [TS]

  implemented that and so now we have this [TS]

  cool feature that we can do with [TS]

  podcasts where you can have invisible [TS]

  chapters so if you don't if you want to [TS]

  show a certain link like right now or a [TS]

  certain picture right now without [TS]

  disrupting the semantic structure of the [TS]

  chapter that you're currently in or if [TS]

  you want to show links or images at [TS]

  certain times without having the rest of [TS]

  the show even have chapters without [TS]

  having a chapter structure for the rest [TS]

  of the show at all you can now do that [TS]

  that's a cool feature and I'm only able [TS]

  to do that feature because I control an [TS]

  encoder and the player and so I realized [TS]

  like the more people who use this [TS]

  encoder the better it works out for [TS]

  overcast and for podcasting as a whole [TS]

  and so I decided you know what because [TS]

  of the combination of those strategic [TS]

  benefits and the fact that any paid [TS]

  income would probably be pretty small [TS]

  and would probably bring a large support [TS]

  burden for that [TS]

  smallness I decided free was the better [TS]

  approach so it's free but it's not just [TS]

  free you have an interesting business [TS]

  model sort of at the bottom of the [TS]

  forecast page at overcast FM / forecast [TS]

  oh yeah I say something along the lines [TS]

  of like you know if you use this and you [TS]

  find it useful for your podcasts I would [TS]

  appreciate if you occasionally promote [TS]

  it overcast and you don't have to do it [TS]

  it's not a requirement and if it's if [TS]

  it's a show where that doesn't make [TS]

  sense like I was thinking of like you [TS]

  look nice today like I know it's it's [TS]

  not really production anymore but like a [TS]

  show like you look nice today [TS]

  or even like Dubai Friday which I kind [TS]

  of use it's like a spiritual successor [TS]

  it doesn't make sense to promote things [TS]

  in a show like that like that doesn't [TS]

  contextually fit it would sound weird so [TS]

  like I don't want you promoting overcast [TS]

  in a show like that but if you have a [TS]

  show which most people do of like at the [TS]

  end you have like oh please [TS]

  you know rate us on iTunes and subscribe [TS]

  and just it sure whenever else occasion [TS]

  we throw an overcast there that's it [TS]

  that's my business model is like if you [TS]

  feel like it and if you can I'd [TS]

  appreciate if you promoted overcast [TS]

  sometimes but you don't have to where [TS]

  are you hiding this application I've [TS]

  read the web page when you linked on [TS]

  Twitter but now mark org slash apps [TS]

  doesn't list it that seems like an [TS]

  oversight yeah I still have a lot of [TS]

  places I need to update this it was kind [TS]

  of a soft launch I was basically launch [TS]

  it on Twitter the overcast site does not [TS]

  link to it from anyway overcast FM / [TS]

  forecast all right know what the icon [TS]

  looks like the icon is is a [TS]

  tongue-in-cheek joke it was created by [TS]

  this wonderful the wonderful forgotten [TS]

  towel the designer who does all of the [TS]

  relay FM artwork I hired him to do this [TS]

  icon and it's so good point nine come on [TS]

  you're better than that [TS]

  what is it at one point I don't know [TS]

  release hi Sierra - don't you know that [TS]

  semver has weird problems with version [TS]

  numbers that begin with zero you don't [TS]

  know that [TS]

  yeah anyway I should I should probably [TS]

  put the icon on the app page [TS]

  downloaded to see the icon so what is [TS]

  the joke you don't get the joke oh it's [TS]

  so good it's a German flag but an F [TS]

  alright yeah I see I thought it was like [TS]

  some sort of I should have known I [TS]

  should some sports thing like it's a [TS]

  sports logo or something I see the [TS]

  German flag colors now yes [TS]

  yeah and a few Germans got it in that [TS]

  and therefore that made it worth it so [TS]

  how do you look at this application and [TS]

  how do you how do you feel about I mean [TS]

  I know this is like a utility and you're [TS]

  like you don't really care that much [TS]

  about the UI it's very utilitarian [TS]

  applications for all the reasons you [TS]

  listed and even some part of the UI you [TS]

  don't even use but it also doesn't look [TS]

  like you spent much time worrying about [TS]

  what the window would look like like you [TS]

  might have if this was gonna be a [TS]

  commercial application like it just kind [TS]

  of is just kind of there like it's not [TS]

  things aren't badly aligned except for [TS]

  maybe a little bit too much space [TS]

  between the buttons and the rest of the [TS]

  thing but it certainly is not not a [TS]

  particularly showy application let's say [TS]

  no it really isn't at all and and I take [TS]

  full ownership of that that this is not [TS]

  a pretty UI this is not a highly [TS]

  polished UI if you do what I said I [TS]

  never do which is if you manually enter [TS]

  chapters it's really unpolished so it [TS]

  this is not you know something that I'm [TS]

  really proud of the UI this to me is a [TS]

  is a highly functional app you know most [TS]

  of what I like and I mentioned on the [TS]

  show a few times before but I also have [TS]

  a tool that helps align double ender [TS]

  files and and remove drift in them this [TS]

  is not that tool and I understand what [TS]

  people think it might be because I [TS]

  talked about that tool before this is a [TS]

  separate tool that tool is an even less [TS]

  polished command line app that has tons [TS]

  of weird bugs edge cases if you don't [TS]

  use it exactly the way I use it and even [TS]

  then sometimes if you do and so that is [TS]

  nowhere near releasable state and it [TS]

  doesn't even have a GUI at all and even [TS]

  the command line version is really not [TS]

  particularly releasable this is a small [TS]

  step above that you know this has a GUI [TS]

  it is not a good interface it is not a [TS]

  polished interface but this is a tool [TS]

  for pro workflows that are like mine [TS]

  even if no one else [TS]

  every uses it it works great for me and [TS]

  so I'm happy with that it's hard to [TS]

  justify spending a lot of time on it [TS]

  like polishing it up when I also am [TS]

  maintaining overcast and having to [TS]

  update that and move that forward on [TS]

  everything so it's probably never gonna [TS]

  be incredibly polished in the UI I just [TS]

  want to make sure that it's really [TS]

  useful and so you know like many Pro [TS]

  Tools its kind of ugly but just [TS]

  functional you should a drawer I [TS]

  actually had a drawer and one of the bin [TS]

  one of the early versions I was thinking [TS]

  like you know it would be like one of [TS]

  the things that was an obvious next step [TS]

  for features for this app is to have a [TS]

  little player and to have it like [TS]

  preview and simulate like you know how [TS]

  the chapters would look in a player and [TS]

  and be able to seek to them and play [TS]

  them and everything to make sure that [TS]

  they're right you gotta bring back the [TS]

  old visualizer from overcast yeah I [TS]

  still have all that code obviously yes [TS]

  and and so if you're gonna add a player [TS]

  to this a drawer is kind of the obvious [TS]

  way to just deprecated that like this [TS]

  year I probably no I mean I wouldn't do [TS]

  it but I was tempted to do it floating [TS]

  brush metal window is the clear way to [TS]

  do that oh yeah definitely [TS]

  textured sorry it's not brush man yes [TS]

  looks like I sink alright so I have two [TS]

  questions for you [TS]

  number one do you have any kind of [TS]

  analytics anywhere just so you know like [TS]

  was this market as small as you thought [TS]

  or have you had you know eleventy [TS]

  billion downloads and turns out you [TS]

  might have miscalculated I can figure [TS]

  this out now or later I don't need to do [TS]

  this like in the app and so I haven't [TS]

  yet in order to distribute this app [TS]

  outside of the App Store which and [TS]

  honestly like I wasn't trying to make [TS]

  some kind of giant political statement [TS]

  by not being in the App Store there was [TS]

  just no need for me to be in the App [TS]

  Store so I wasn't I did I didn't feel [TS]

  that it was worth the the burdens of [TS]

  being in the App Store for no benefit [TS]

  really so I'm not in the App Store so I [TS]

  had to build in distribution [TS]

  functionality I had to build an auto [TS]

  updating and the way you do are updating [TS]

  in Mac apps is through the sparkle [TS]

  framework this how pretty much everyone [TS]

  does it everyone who used a Mac app that [TS]

  that is not from the App Store has seen [TS]

  the [TS]

  little windows and say like you know if [TS]

  it's available do you want to install an [TS]

  app you know ROM me later or skip this [TS]

  version and you click install now and it [TS]

  shows like a little like you know [TS]

  progress bar then it quits and relaunch [TS]

  is the app there's a reason why those [TS]

  are the same across pretty much every [TS]

  app they all use the same framework [TS]

  called sparkle and so the way sparkle [TS]

  works is once a day or whatever when you [TS]

  launch the app it checks a server's RSS [TS]

  feed and it's a special RSS feed that [TS]

  ink that is four versions of the app so [TS]

  for me to distribute this I had to [TS]

  basically build all that and I when I [TS]

  made quitter I built like a very very [TS]

  basic version of that that's just [TS]

  basically all like shell scripts that [TS]

  would generate static files and then [TS]

  upload them to my server for forecast [TS]

  this is an overcast product I wanted [TS]

  this live to live on the overcast [TS]

  servers I wanted to finally do like a [TS]

  little bit better of a job so I kind of [TS]

  made my own crappy little version of [TS]

  iTunes Connect or hit where like I can [TS]

  upload a build and a script on the [TS]

  server reads the build number and the [TS]

  version number out of that build signs [TS]

  it for for sparkle update mechanism like [TS]

  there's a signature involved so signs it [TS]

  for that and then creates like an entry [TS]

  then I can enter release notes in that [TS]

  entry and I can say whether it's [TS]

  released or not so I can actually very [TS]

  easily add a thing to this system that [TS]

  remembers how many people check that RSS [TS]

  feed every day and important reports to [TS]

  me roughly how many users there are or I [TS]

  can just log like how many downloads the [TS]

  file has which I also don't do I [TS]

  probably should be doing that but I'm [TS]

  not [TS]

  but overall the response I've gotten on [TS]

  Twitter so far has been huge it was it's [TS]

  been way bigger than I expected and I [TS]

  think this is really this is really a [TS]

  good sign there's a lot more podcast [TS]

  producers out there that then the people [TS]

  I know I said it isn't so many that I [TS]

  regret really producing it for free be [TS]

  it I think if it wasn't free many of [TS]

  them wouldn't try it because they don't [TS]

  know me and this is just some random [TS]

  thing but because it's free it is [TS]

  spreading pretty wide wider than I [TS]

  expect it at the spread so quickly [TS]

  especially since I'm linking to it from [TS]

  nowhere on this [TS]

  so so yeah so far it's it's going pretty [TS]

  well good and because it's my favorite [TS]

  thing to ask what was the either hardest [TS]

  or crummiest part of the entire process [TS]

  and I think that you're under the radar [TS]

  episode talked about a lot of the like [TS]

  oh the app is done but there's so much [TS]

  more to do and like you were talking [TS]

  about like you're you're Marco connect [TS]

  you know in order your fake iTunes [TS]

  Connect and all that had to be written [TS]

  but but over the entire process from [TS]

  start to finish including all this [TS]

  administrivia you had to do what would [TS]

  you say was the either the hardest or or [TS]

  the most difficult or crummiest part to [TS]

  deal with by far the hardest part of [TS]

  this app is just learning app kit [TS]

  you know it's learning how to make mac [TS]

  apps you know I had made quitter before [TS]

  and I made a couple of little like [TS]

  experimental dumb crap before that but [TS]

  this is the first time that I really [TS]

  have made a Mac app of any kind of [TS]

  substance now the good thing is you know [TS]

  applicant provides a lot of really rich [TS]

  functionality built in so like the [TS]

  entire document model I don't have to [TS]

  worry that much about like windowing [TS]

  opening saving save as stuff like that [TS]

  like a lot of that comes for free and so [TS]

  that's pretty great but the the way that [TS]

  the actual UI works like the way those [TS]

  table views work and the text fields [TS]

  inside the table views and the for [TS]

  matters and the bindings to an array [TS]

  controller all those weird stuff you [TS]

  know to to an iOS developer mainly it [TS]

  might as well be Android like it's so [TS]

  different from the way iOS works that [TS]

  it's it's like starting over from zero [TS]

  so I'm making mac apps as though I'm a [TS]

  complete novice because for the Mac I am [TS]

  that has been the hardest part is that [TS]

  you know I'm used to working at a [TS]

  certain speed and proficiency and and [TS]

  design proficiency on iOS that I just [TS]

  don't have when making mac OS apps so [TS]

  it's that's been a very very slow [TS]

  learning process and it's also just [TS]

  harder on the Mac because the api's are [TS]

  have a lot more legacy because they're [TS]

  much older so the api's are a lot [TS]

  clunkier they have not gotten nearly as [TS]

  much attention in the last [TS]

  Cady's iOS has so they are in many ways [TS]

  a lot harder to use or have a lot of [TS]

  antiquated or clunky things you have to [TS]

  do to use them and the biggest problem [TS]

  with all of it is that because iOS is so [TS]

  incredibly popular and Mac OS [TS]

  development relatively isn't it's very [TS]

  hard to find answers if you have [TS]

  questions for Mac OS development there's [TS]

  not like with iOS you can search [TS]

  anything in under the Sun and you're [TS]

  gonna get a thousand Google results half [TS]

  of them are gonna be really great [TS]

  tutorials like exactly what you have to [TS]

  do or great Stack Overflow answers on [TS]

  exact exactly the problem you're having [TS]

  and a Mac OS that's not the case most of [TS]

  the time most time what you're searching [TS]

  for you will get either nothing helpful [TS]

  or like one ancient mailing list post [TS]

  that you have to like scan through the [TS]

  web version of a man list to find [TS]

  somebody who might maybe be talking [TS]

  about what you're talking about [TS]

  it's it's a very different world I'm [TS]

  just trying to think of an excuse to use [TS]

  this application maybe I should [TS]

  participate cast it's right you're on so [TS]

  many podcasts you drop artwork here okay [TS]

  why are you yelling at me [TS]

  it looks better I know this isn't like [TS]

  me designing Mac OS apps it's it's like [TS]

  the way everyone designs Windows apps [TS]

  it's like I don't know what the hell is [TS]

  good here like just throw something [TS]

  there that looks good using the guide [TS]

  snap things in interface builder or did [TS]

  you not use interface builder for this [TS]

  at all no I use it I use the guide snap [TS]

  things no I mean like I built most of [TS]

  the interface with cocoa bindings just [TS]

  so I wouldn't have to learn a lot of the [TS]

  intricacies of tableviews and then all [TS]

  the experience Mac developer scolded you [TS]

  for it yeah and then every was like oh [TS]

  yeah I don't use cocoa but yeah thanks a [TS]

  lot it is really nice to do certain like [TS]

  and you know cocoa bindings are great [TS]

  for like really simple stuff like like [TS]

  enable disabled states of certain [TS]

  buttons tracking certain you know [TS]

  properties or things being nil or things [TS]

  like that it's there's a lot of value to [TS]

  cocoa bindings but like for me to fix [TS]

  the main problem the app has which is [TS]

  the manual entry of chapters is very [TS]

  clunky and weird that is going to [TS]

  basically require dumping bindings for [TS]

  the tableview and that's going to be a [TS]

  you know I'm not gonna say it's gonna be [TS]

  a huge pain [TS]

  but it's gonna be a decent mount of work [TS]

  at least especially because I'm totally [TS]

  unfamiliar with it if it was I us I [TS]

  could do it in half a day but because [TS]

  it's Mac OS it's gonna take me a lot [TS]

  longer than that and the good thing is [TS]

  that the app has gotten such a strong [TS]

  reception that I'm actually motivated to [TS]

  do things like this to fix weird bugs [TS]

  that that don't affect me personally but [TS]

  I do have to also keep that in check [TS]

  with like this is not my primary job I'm [TS]

  primary job as overcast and I need to [TS]

  make sure that overcast is not going to [TS]

  suffer for me working too much on [TS]

  forecast the good thing is I don't think [TS]

  it's that I don't that's very likely [TS]

  because like I've been working on a [TS]

  forecast for two years and the way I [TS]

  usually work on it is I fix some things [TS]

  I've wanted to fix for a while like [TS]

  ferla over like a week and then I don't [TS]

  touch it for six months and then I spend [TS]

  another week tweaking it up and then I [TS]

  gotta go to the six months not touching [TS]

  it because it pretty much works like it [TS]

  doesn't need a lot of attention [TS]

  so hopefully this this won't be a huge [TS]

  time second I don't think it will how is [TS]

  forecasts choosing where to put its a [TS]

  window when a command man I don't know [TS]

  like I mean so there's that weird like [TS]

  thing interface builder that little like [TS]

  window graphic thing where you say like [TS]

  all right kind of position it kind of in [TS]

  the middle of the window and the left is [TS]

  like there's there's something interface [TS]

  builder that lets you specify that if [TS]

  this was a conscious choice area it does [TS]

  remember it does remember the window [TS]

  position between quits at which I'm [TS]

  assuming you're picking up for free as [TS]

  part of like the savory store [TS]

  I think same thing but if you close all [TS]

  the windows and hit command in a new [TS]

  window appears in a location that I mean [TS]

  it's not random it's always the same [TS]

  place but it's like off-center to the [TS]

  left Cup the middle vertically yeah I [TS]

  saw that in the thing and interface [TS]

  builder that accident I wasn't aware [TS]

  that was a global I figured it would [TS]

  just use the last one and that would be [TS]

  like the very first time it ever made a [TS]

  window it would create it there no no I [TS]

  see that this is the problem like I [TS]

  don't know how to do this unless you [TS]

  look at that's fine and the other thing [TS]

  that surprised me is that you use a Mac [TS]

  every day but like you know when you [TS]

  laid out like the Preferences dialog [TS]

  that's laid out like no preference [TS]

  dialog in any mac app and you use all [TS]

  the time [TS]

  like you see preference dialogues but [TS]

  there's like three preferences [TS]

  I know I know and yet surprisingly laid [TS]

  out in kind of a weird Marco kind of way [TS]

  and the thing is that this is the thing [TS]

  I never sighs just because you use a Mac [TS]

  application all the time doesn't mean [TS]

  you you consciously know like if I'm [TS]

  making a dialog from scratch and I have [TS]

  like two text boxes to two radio buttons [TS]

  and a button how do I put them so it [TS]

  looks like correct right and I had so [TS]

  like this stuff took me so long to try [TS]

  to figure out because I am NOT a Mac [TS]

  developer and like it was very very slow [TS]

  going like again like it's like I was a [TS]

  novice because I for the Mac I am a [TS]

  novice and even using a Mac yes I'm [TS]

  saying you don't think about it if [TS]

  you're not actually dragging the [TS]

  controls out because when you see like a [TS]

  Mac dialog box like it looks more or [TS]

  less right but then you see one doesn't [TS]

  quite look right there's something off [TS]

  about it but you can't quite place it [TS]

  it's like you know what would fix this [TS]

  is just is just because the button on [TS]

  the bottom is centered is it you know [TS]

  what is the problem with that I don't [TS]

  know anyway it's fine [TS]

  I appreciate your on account your icon [TS]

  does look like a Sports logo though I [TS]

  don't know I keep thinking [TS]

  don't know I keep thinking [TS]

  just as a warning hey I need one more [TS]

  stand hour before I go to bed which [TS]

  means we need to end before midnight [TS]

  you can stand while we podcast a [TS]

  standing podcast desk have you gotten [TS]

  the 9 o'clock hour yet uh no stand up [TS]

  just run or stand up I just want that's [TS]

  true that's fair point [TS]

  Oh God how like what like one or two [TS]

  minutes of activity of standing one [TS]

  minute but I gotta like wiggle around [TS]

  and make the watch think that I'm [TS]

  standing you should run in place you can [TS]

  get if you're under your calorie count [TS]

  for the day you run that's true I don't [TS]

  know how am i doing how am i doing let's [TS]

  look are you finishing all three rings I [TS]

  wanted some kind of streak or you just [TS]

  doing Stan Lee are you still a blue ring [TS]

  stud stand is the only thing I really [TS]

  care about I did have a really good [TS]

  streak going for a long time but I'm I'm [TS]

  ever so lightly sick so I've been [TS]

  skipping my morning runs and so [TS]

  basically I'm just a sloth as I I'm [TS]

  realizing my true form as a sloth [TS]

  blue-ringed sloth the blue ring slide [TS]

  that's exactly it [TS]

  how'd you get the exercise man it's a [TS]

  not get the orange ring because I'm out [TS]

  of shape even despite all the running so [TS]

  kidding exercise minutes is easier than [TS]

  you think [TS]

  wait wait wait ok we're good ok we can [TS]

  start you got it you get like a badger [TS]

  and everything everything is all right [TS]

  now are you in the right time zone [TS]

  who knows I in the right country is this [TS]

  what people to in tune in for well in [TS]

  your preferred date format why don't you [TS]

  put the year first so then it like like [TS]

  sorts properly this is a good question [TS]

  which probably won't make the show but [TS]

  if I were editing would make the show [TS]

  and this is why I don't edit by hey the [TS]

  reason you don't do I so what is it ATIS [TS]

  8601 is because if you're doing [TS]

  something where in your handling like [TS]

  just in unbelievable amount of files [TS]

  like let's say for the sake of argument [TS]

  thing you were you had all of your [TS]

  pictures that you've ever taken in one [TS]

  folder because you're weird so every [TS]

  single photograph you've ever taken is [TS]

  all in one folder on your one directory [TS]

  if you will well they never called [TS]

  directories on the Mac John way back [TS]

  when or is that just a DOS thing they [TS]

  were not ok so it's a toss thing anyways [TS]

  what did you do calls in directories [TS]

  right oh that's true [TS]

  yes Oh fair enough anyway I digress so [TS]

  if you had out any photo you've ever [TS]

  taken in one in one folder slash [TS]

  directory then absolutely 8601 that bad [TS]

  boy but in my day to day use of a [TS]

  computer easily ninety percent of the [TS]

  time that I'm looking at any date I know [TS]

  by context that it is the current year [TS]

  so why would I put your first that just [TS]

  gets annoying and redundant there are [TS]

  certain circumstances where years should [TS]

  go first but generally speaking the one [TS]

  true way to store a date is day day [TS]

  month month year year because a day is [TS]

  smaller than a month and a month is [TS]

  smaller than a year 8601 is ridiculous [TS]

  and anyone who says otherwise is [TS]

  preposterous it is day month year so [TS]

  unless you are doing machines in which [TS]

  case yes 86 so the the what I'm arguing [TS]

  for which I guess no one I forget is [TS]

  year-month-day correct that's it so on [TS]

  the reason why this is better is that it [TS]

  is completely unambiguous because that [TS]

  no no where ever uses year day month so [TS]

  if you see a four-digit year up front [TS]

  you know that the next number is going [TS]

  to be the month and then I'm sure that [TS]

  is going to be the day in addition to [TS]

  the benefits of it being like you know [TS]

  alphabetically sorted properly in lists [TS]

  that you know that's a side benefit but [TS]

  the the number one argument forward is [TS]

  that it's unambiguous that you can use [TS]

  that format anywhere in the world and [TS]

  people will know how to read it and the [TS]

  chance of error is very very low so that [TS]

  alone should win it but also you know [TS]

  you're a programmer the lexicographical [TS]

  sorting argument should work on you and [TS]

  you know yes you know right now this is [TS]

  the current year guess what it won't be [TS]

  in a month like next month will be a [TS]

  different current year and if you have a [TS]

  format that sorts correctly no matter [TS]

  what year you are in or what year the [TS]

  stuff you're looking at is from that [TS]

  seems like it would be a win so the [TS]

  correct way to write a date in a file [TS]

  name or in an unambiguous context is [TS]

  year-month-day see I I can't I can't [TS]

  disagree with you because you're not [TS]

  you're not you're not wrong but you're [TS]

  also not right [TS]

  because I just don't like it I don't [TS]

  like it I'm the same person who doesn't [TS]

  put a zero in my in my URL slugs [TS]

  so I mean Who am I to talk but to my [TS]

  eyes I mean well I think we can all [TS]

  agree that Americans get it wrong that [TS]

  month/day/year is just preposterous it [TS]

  is truly an utterly stupid you try to [TS]

  make us all agree on cheese here with [TS]

  this cuz I don't agree on G's only you [TS]

  are agreeing on cheese what does that [TS]

  even mean [TS]

  American cheese is delicious yeah [TS]

  month/day/year is not preposterous for [TS]

  filename sure it's preposterous but for [TS]

  like display purposes which is what [TS]

  we're talking about last time you like [TS]

  oh I said myself to Australia so so my [TS]

  watch can display dates to me in that [TS]

  way I don't want this displayed to me in [TS]

  year month day I want them in the dus [TS]

  system in the US system makes sense for [TS]

  display dates because no doesn't it yeah [TS]

  it does [TS]

  month day is all you need to know almost [TS]

  all the time and for disambiguation [TS]

  hanging out on the right hand side [TS]

  because we read from right to left if [TS]

  you need to look over there [TS]

  yeah there's year we read from right to [TS]

  left all right you know what I mean left [TS]

  right no you always go day month year [TS]

  you always go dimo no not in this [TS]

  country and you shouldn't do it that way [TS]

  because not in this country but we're [TS]

  wrong we use Imperial month day month [TS]

  day makes sense month date makes us [TS]

  pretty split purposes not you shouldn't [TS]

  put that in your file name because that [TS]

  would be for the reasons mark are [TS]

  already outlined no this is preposterous [TS]

  John the reason you say month day is [TS]

  right it's just because it's what you're [TS]

  used to [TS]

  no I'm saying there's an argument for it [TS]

  it's not just like random or wrong like [TS]

  there every each one of these formats [TS]

  has its strengths and weaknesses and and [TS]

  saying that we can all agree that Monday [TS]

  is preposterous is saying that there are [TS]

  no advantages to it there are there is [TS]

  there is a sense there is a mnemonic [TS]

  there is a sensible system for why that [TS]

  date works not just because we're used [TS]

  to it which is obviously a big factor [TS]

  but also there are things to recommend [TS]

  it which is I have what I was just [TS]

  explaining so it's not you know [TS]

  completely it's not a completely [TS]

  write-off it's only clearly right often [TS]

  in file names because that would be them [TS]

  I can get behind I can get behind month [TS]

  day when year is not a part of it so [TS]

  March 17 okay fine but that's the thing [TS]

  like you have that disambiguation like [TS]

  it's month day and then in cases where [TS]

  you feel like you need some [TS]

  disambiguation like during the year [TS]

  changeover or if you're doing distant [TS]

  future just in past dates you can throw [TS]

  in the air see but then if it's months a [TS]

  year how does [TS]

  are you a programmer how are you a [TS]

  basically a robot say for human [TS]

  consumption for display purposes not for [TS]

  naming your files not it's still day [TS]

  month here [TS]

  no you're saying month day year only [TS]

  because it's what you're used to by [TS]

  doing what you're doing it's like I do [TS]

  I'm gonna do all my temperatures in [TS]

  Celsius I can have all my conversations [TS]

  in the United States and Celsius right [TS]

  no Celsius is barbarian no but what I'm [TS]

  saying is like in this country it's the [TS]

  way we do it there's massive advantages [TS]

  to doing a month day in this country [TS]

  because everyone else other that way and [TS]

  if you do it the reverse you will [TS]

  confuse other people and potentially [TS]

  also confuse yourself depending on [TS]

  whether you remember if you wrote it or [TS]

  not no I will I will concede that it is [TS]

  unusual in this country however don't [TS]

  you put that barbaric Celsius Celsius [TS]

  nonsense on me don't you even start sir [TS]

  Seifer sorry for the barbarism of [TS]

  Celsius for human temperatures like were [TS]

  you to use it you'd be swimming against [TS]

  the tide in this country [TS]

  sure and you'd have that same confusion [TS]

  you should just use kelvins you don't [TS]

  have that a degree symbol there's [TS]

  problem solved all I'm saying is all I'm [TS]

  saying is I can see an argument for [TS]

  month to a year [TS]

  you're wrong but I can see it but let me [TS]

  make it plain that using Celsius for [TS]

  human felt temperatures for ambient air [TS]

  temperatures and only ambient air [TS]

  temperatures is utterly ridiculous and [TS]

  all of you heathens in Europe who say [TS]

  otherwise are unequivocally wrong look [TS]

  at the scale zero you're it's it's cold [TS]

  ish a hundred you're dead yeah there's [TS]

  that famous gif [TS]

  right it's not even if it's just an [TS]

  image and Fahrenheit can be encoded as [TS]

  it gets zero zero is really really cold [TS]

  100 is really really hot that's all you [TS]

  need to know for ambient air 10 such a [TS]

  millennial is not animated like triple [TS]

  taken I like breaking my brain sorry [TS]

  John [TS]

  I'm sorry we're kids anyway suffice to [TS]

  say we can be I can I can allow an [TS]

  argument that 80 I can allow the 8601 [TS]

  argument I think you're wrong I can [TS]

  allow the month/day/year argument I [TS]

  think you're wrong but we should all [TS]

  agree the official ATP stance on Celsius [TS]

  is [TS]

  it is utterly preposterous and wrong for [TS]

  ambient air temperature you want to talk [TS]

  science e things well you should be [TS]

  using Kelvin but fine use Celsius but [TS]

  for ambient air temperature it is wrong [TS]

  in Europe should be ashamed let's move [TS]

  on and let's start with some follow up [TS]

  the route blog post in the dev forums [TS]

  that was the dev forums not the support [TS]

  forums and one or all of us got that [TS]

  backwards last week that was my bed I [TS]

  think we all start off saying the right [TS]

  thing but I very quickly shifted into [TS]

  talking about the support forums so the [TS]

  developer forums you have to be a [TS]

  registered Apple developer to even see [TS]

  them like they're actually authentic [TS]

  kids they're not open to the public they [TS]

  are still pretty noisy and it's also [TS]

  true that they are not a hey Apple come [TS]

  help me with my problem thing like it is [TS]

  other developers talking to other [TS]

  developers and you have you know DTS [TS]

  support incidents or whatever for actual [TS]

  you know you pay money and then Apple [TS]

  can help you with stuff so some of what [TS]

  we said is true but it's important not [TS]

  to confuse the two types of forums the [TS]

  completely wide open public support [TS]

  forums or high volume and very noisy and [TS]

  people talk about all sorts of things [TS]

  dev warms are less so alright and [TS]

  related apparently Gregory Beatty [TS]

  emailed product security at Apple calm [TS]

  about this bug on November 12th do you [TS]

  want to tell us about this yeah it's a [TS]

  lot of people asking about you know [TS]

  should Apple be poring over their forums [TS]

  or having some one or more employees [TS]

  look at all that both the dev forms out [TS]

  of the support forum so they can see [TS]

  these bugs ahead of times and a lot of [TS]

  people saying uh posting us on Twitter [TS]

  isn't the way you're supposed to [TS]

  disclose this blah blah blah what you're [TS]

  supposed to do is email product security [TS]

  the Apple comm and turns out somebody [TS]

  did actually do exactly the right thing [TS]

  which is the email product security [TS]

  Apple to come about this exact bug on [TS]

  November 12th which was a long time ago [TS]

  and I don't know if they just have a big [TS]

  backlog or didn't get to it or knew [TS]

  about it but we're hoping they could [TS]

  just sweep it under the rug until their [TS]

  fix came out in a later update I don't [TS]

  know what the story is but I thought it [TS]

  was interesting that for all the yelling [TS]

  about the right and wrong way to report [TS]

  bugs in the right and wrong way for [TS]

  Apple to know about them this particular [TS]

  bug long before it was widely publicized [TS]

  and long before I was fixed was [TS]

  submitted to Apple [TS]

  in the correct way excellent the [TS]

  quote-unquote correct way because [TS]

  there's some argument that like oh you [TS]

  have to you know like responsible [TS]

  disclosure or whatever where you tell [TS]

  the the source of the bug about it first [TS]

  secretly to give them a chance to fix it [TS]

  and only if they don't fix it after a [TS]

  long long time do you go into public [TS]

  versus quote-unquote irresponsible [TS]

  disclosure where you just tell it to the [TS]

  public before you know at the same time [TS]

  the vendor finds out the public does and [TS]

  there is some debate about what actually [TS]

  is the the best way to do that because [TS]

  obviously if you hear they she's like oh [TS]

  well of course responsible disclosure [TS]

  where you tell the vendor first that's [TS]

  the way to do it because it protects the [TS]

  most people you don't want the bad guys [TS]

  that'll blah blah blah but the the [TS]

  problem with that approach in the past [TS]

  has been the defenders are like oh thank [TS]

  you for telling us we'll fix it when we [TS]

  get to it and then you're sit there [TS]

  waiting go like how long do I have to [TS]

  wait before you know like maybe the bad [TS]

  guys already know about this just [TS]

  because I didn't tell the bad guys [TS]

  doesn't mean they don't just because I [TS]

  discovered it maybe they discovered it [TS]

  now too and so you're waiting come on [TS]

  come on fix the bug fix the bug then you [TS]

  have to know how long do I wait before [TS]

  it's okay for me to say in public like [TS]

  what this thing is you know and there's [TS]

  was an article about it a couple years [TS]

  ago which was about the much more [TS]

  bureaucratic process of submitting [TS]

  things rather than the informal just [TS]

  email Apple policy but I'm not and I'm [TS]

  not entirely sure that the in in this [TS]

  world where information is you know so [TS]

  widely shared and it's so difficult to [TS]

  know what other people know like how [TS]

  long have you know blackhat hackers [TS]

  known about this bug we don't know and [TS]

  they're not going to tell us and you [TS]

  don't want the one thing we have learned [TS]

  from these type of incidents is that [TS]

  widespread publication of a bug gets it [TS]

  fixed really fast and submitting it [TS]

  through the proper channels does not [TS]

  always get it fixed really fast so I'm [TS]

  not quite sure what the right thing to [TS]

  do here is it's not not clear-cut all [TS]

  right do you want to tell us about what [TS]

  Shawn writes about X protect s protect I [TS]

  think is the either the internal or [TS]

  external both names of the malware [TS]

  system that Apple has on Mac OS where [TS]

  they have signatures of malware and they [TS]

  periodically update that behind the [TS]

  scenes without you knowing about it and [TS]

  I think I mentioned in the show like you [TS]

  don't even know that it's happening like [TS]

  they're updating that malware whenever [TS]

  the heck [TS]

  feel like it and you have no choice in [TS]

  the matter oh I think you can actually [TS]

  disable it or whatever but on a default [TS]

  system you are getting these updates [TS]

  whether you like it or not unless you go [TS]

  into the system preferences turn off a [TS]

  little checkbox that says you get these [TS]

  updates but if you're wondering when [TS]

  they happen people are actually keeping [TS]

  track of it and you can look at this [TS]

  website we'll put a link in the show [TS]

  notes it tells you when the updates are [TS]

  and what things they protect against and [TS]

  there's even a little shell script it [TS]

  will tell you the last time it updated [TS]

  on your computer that you can run [TS]

  excellent all right so Ian Williamson [TS]

  writes in and says that someone who's [TS]

  previously had to join all of our [TS]

  company Macs to Active Directory in [TS]

  order to enforce corporate security [TS]

  policies I wanted to confirm that yes it [TS]

  causes a multitude of issues resulting [TS]

  in these spinnings beat beach ball [TS]

  recently though we're starting to [TS]

  disconnect them all and replace that [TS]

  with an apple tool called Enterprise [TS]

  Connect which communicates with AD in a [TS]

  much looser fashion so in case you're [TS]

  not aware because your name is Marco or [TS]

  you don't really have a real job Active [TS]

  Directory is the I'm sure there's a term [TS]

  for is it LDAP I don't even know but [TS]

  it's it's the system by which many many [TS]

  many many corporate environments manage [TS]

  users and it's a Microsoft system and it [TS]

  does not typically play terribly well [TS]

  with Mac's which i think is slightly [TS]

  Omak written like Microsoft's shoulders [TS]

  but is largely on Apple's shoulders and [TS]

  so I know that my IT guy at my work has [TS]

  been complaining and moaning about [TS]

  Apple's implementation of Active [TS]

  Directory particularly recently because [TS]

  I think they might have redone it or [TS]

  something it has caused him no endless [TS]

  amount of woes and he is actively [TS]

  inquiring about this enterprise connect [TS]

  thing that apparently is only given to [TS]

  the coolest of of clients of apples so I [TS]

  don't know if you guys have anything to [TS]

  add on that I'm sure Marco you do so [TS]

  let's start with you I really don't this [TS]

  is an entire world that I know nothing [TS]

  about and I'm very happy to continue [TS]

  knowing nothing about I wish I could do [TS]

  that too but alas I cannot response to [TS]

  me guessing why my computer was like [TS]

  slow to wake and I got beach balls all [TS]

  the time [TS]

  I was attributing to Active Directory [TS]

  mostly because I had previously had a [TS]

  Mac that was not on the Active Directory [TS]

  network and it was just so it was like a [TS]

  normal Mac like a normal it was a [TS]

  desktop too so that also helps waking [TS]

  from sleep and it was immediately ready [TS]

  to go and anyway I was blaming [TS]

  activators [TS]

  I think it was Marco suggested turning [TS]

  off power nap [TS]

  and and hibernate and I did that it did [TS]

  not really make any change as far as I [TS]

  can tell so I think my computer was not [TS]

  hibernating and power nap was not an [TS]

  issue I still you know I left the lid I [TS]

  close the lid walk to my next meeting [TS]

  sit down open the lid and there's a [TS]

  fairly long period of time sometimes a [TS]

  long period time before I can even log [TS]

  in either with touch ID or otherwise I [TS]

  usually give up on touch ID after I put [TS]

  my finger there for a while and nothing [TS]

  has happened and then I type my password [TS]

  nothing also happens like I don't even [TS]

  see the little dots appear on the screen [TS]

  but very often it has registered my [TS]

  typed password and if I just wait [TS]

  including the return key that I hit and [TS]

  if I just wait and wait and eventually [TS]

  it will unlock and then I'll try to do [TS]

  something that I'll get a beach ball so [TS]

  I blame salon active directory and Ian [TS]

  was writing him to talk about this [TS]

  enterprise connect thing which is turn [TS]

  to make a looser coupling between active [TS]

  active directory here's the thing I [TS]

  don't I don't know almost anything about [TS]

  Active Directory other than the fact [TS]

  that I am subjected to it I don't know [TS]

  if my company my company might already [TS]

  be using Enterprise Connect I might be [TS]

  using the good version like for all I [TS]

  know it is worse for people who are not [TS]

  using Enterprise Connect so I really [TS]

  have honestly no way of knowing whether [TS]

  I'm currently using Enterprise Connect [TS]

  or not if I'm not I would love for my [TS]

  company to use it but somehow I don't [TS]

  think that's in the cards because in [TS]

  general like this time and the grand [TS]

  scheme of things complaining that your [TS]

  computer takes a while before you can [TS]

  use it when you open the lid and you [TS]

  know it's not that long it's like you [TS]

  know maybe 20 seconds that is a [TS]

  complaint that is probably falling on [TS]

  deaf ears in the grand scheme of [TS]

  enterprise IT I just kind of wish I [TS]

  didn't have to deal with it we respond [TS]

  to this week by fracture beautiful photo [TS]

  prints directly on glass visit fractured [TS]

  on me and save 15% off your first order [TS]

  with code ATP 17 fracture prints look [TS]

  amazing you know you should get your [TS]

  photos printed sometimes because [TS]

  if you just post them online like most [TS]

  of us do after 12 hours they're off [TS]

  everyone's timelines you'll never see [TS]

  them again but if you get them printed [TS]

  you have an actual artifact that you can [TS]

  hang up in your house or prop up on your [TS]

  desk or even better give it as a gift to [TS]

  someone who will really enjoy it and [TS]

  this could be something traditional like [TS]

  giving grandparents pictures of their [TS]

  grandchildren and their grandpa peas or [TS]

  it can be something fun that you do with [TS]

  your friends like maybe you send each [TS]

  other pictures that you that are inside [TS]

  jokes to you that you find funny or just [TS]

  pictures and fun times you had together [TS]

  family friends co-workers whoever it is [TS]

  they make wonderful gifts and fracture [TS]

  knows this so do a lot of other people [TS]

  so if you want to get it done in time [TS]

  for the holidays please place your [TS]

  orders now because here's the thing [TS]

  every fracture they care a lot about [TS]

  quality so every fracture is handmade by [TS]

  human beings in Gainesville Florida [TS]

  right here right in the US they are a [TS]

  green company operating a carbon-neutral [TS]

  factory they do things very very well [TS]

  but what this means having all this [TS]

  human you know hand involvement here is [TS]

  that the holidays they get backed up [TS]

  sometimes and so it's pretty close to [TS]

  the holidays now they are already [TS]

  starting to get a large volume of orders [TS]

  in if you want a gift in time for the [TS]

  holidays from fracture with which I [TS]

  strongly recommend because these prints [TS]

  look great they go edge to edge they're [TS]

  printed right on glass you don't need to [TS]

  frame them they fit well with any decor [TS]

  they just look awesome modern clean [TS]

  high-quality great colors great contrast [TS]

  so you want these things but you got to [TS]

  place those holiday orders now please [TS]

  don't wait if you want them in front of [TS]

  the holidays place those orders now [TS]

  they are wonderful so check them out [TS]

  today at fractured me and save 15% off [TS]

  your first order with code ATP 17 if [TS]

  they ask you where you came from make [TS]

  sure to tell them you came from our ATP [TS]

  our wonderful podcast here so fractured [TS]

  on me and save 15% off your first order [TS]

  with code ATP 17 thank you so much to [TS]

  fracture for sponsoring our show last [TS]

  week I got just a little bit fired up [TS]

  with regard to the keyboard behavior on [TS]

  iOS I have two pieces of follow-up about [TS]

  this number one I had assumed it was all [TS]

  me and that I'm just inept and I had a [TS]

  tremendous amount of people write in to [TS]

  say no no it's not just you [TS]

  it's become hot garbage now nobody could [TS]

  agree on when this happened a lot of [TS]

  people said the same thing I did which [TS]

  was right around iOS or I'm sorry it was [TS]

  iPhone 6 ish whatever iOS was around [TS]

  that time some people have said no no [TS]

  it's actually with iOS 11 which I [TS]

  disagree with but a lot of people said [TS]

  no no you are not alone I cannot type my [TS]

  type of my phone anymore that being said [TS]

  I have been mildly browbeat by my curly [TS]

  to try G board which is Google's third [TS]

  party keyboard which is pretty good but [TS]

  I haven't trying that and when I am [TS]

  typing rather than swiping I feel like [TS]

  it's not any better which makes me think [TS]

  this is a KC problem not an iOS problem [TS]

  and apparently it's also a tons and tons [TS]

  of listeners problem all at the same [TS]

  time because if I can't type on on the [TS]

  Google keyboard and I can't type on the [TS]

  Apple keyboard then that makes me think [TS]

  I'm the problem or perhaps it was that [TS]

  Apple was uniquely good at figuring out [TS]

  what I meant and auto correcting things [TS]

  or perhaps the the touch targets were [TS]

  uniquely good at being the way I [TS]

  expected them to be and now they're not [TS]

  like somebody had suggested I don't [TS]

  remember who it was that maybe their [TS]

  touch targets got way bigger when [TS]

  they're predicting what you're gonna [TS]

  type so like let's say I'm typing the [TS]

  word there th e re then as so I type th [TS]

  e and the touch target for the letter R [TS]

  because you know Apple thinks oh my [TS]

  Betty's gonna type in R the touch target [TS]

  for R is just mammoth and if I'm trying [TS]

  to type they then maybe I'll get the th [TS]

  er instead does that make any sense it's [TS]

  a very it's very hard to paint this word [TS]

  picture but what I'm driving at is no [TS]

  predictive touch target enlargement is [TS]

  is a possible explanation though that is [TS]

  completely supposition and I have no [TS]

  facts to indicate that's that's true but [TS]

  in any case one way or another I've been [TS]

  trying G board and it's not really [TS]

  working for me so far so it makes me [TS]

  think it's a KC problem but I don't know [TS]

  if you guys have any feedback on this [TS]

  one [TS]

  that means it's the case problems like [TS]

  you said that G board is a totally [TS]

  different keyboard right so that you we [TS]

  have no idea what if how you how you are [TS]

  typing on keyboard but you like you you [TS]

  have the feeling and many many other [TS]

  people who wrote and also have the [TS]

  feeling that they were previously better [TS]

  typing on the Apple keyboard and the [TS]

  weird thing about the feedback like I [TS]

  put it in here is like basically that [TS]

  you're not alone but incredible variance [TS]

  in the people people some people saying [TS]

  it started two years ago it started with [TS]

  iOS 10 yeah it started when I changed to [TS]

  a bigger phone and start when I change [TS]

  to a smaller phone and I don't know if [TS]

  you just tap into some sort of like [TS]

  deterioration of mass deterioration of [TS]

  typing skills because it doesn't seem to [TS]

  be any common thread like not it's not [TS]

  like everyone agreed that iOS 11 hos [TS]

  that there was not that agreement but [TS]

  lots of people really feel like they are [TS]

  now worse at typing than the use maybe [TS]

  they're just all getting older and it's [TS]

  like one of the first places that [TS]

  they're noticing that they're getting [TS]

  older what the only thing I saw that I [TS]

  think could be attributable to software [TS]

  is people complaining about autocorrect [TS]

  going behind them and changing their [TS]

  last three or something nonsensical and [TS]

  I've noticed that as well and I think [TS]

  that is a new software edition where it [TS]

  previously didn't used to like once you [TS]

  moved on from something that be like oh [TS]

  that's fine but now it has like some [TS]

  kind of thing where reconsiders the last [TS]

  five words you've written and says oh I [TS]

  see you were probably trying to work [TS]

  this write this sequence of nonsense [TS]

  five words and it goes back and corrects [TS]

  them and that people find infuriating [TS]

  and if you're getting so do I yep [TS]

  completely agreed I'm glad you brought [TS]

  that up because I'd forgotten about that [TS]

  and yes I've seen that behavior and it [TS]

  is driving me bananas [TS]

  Marco any thoughts about this point move [TS]

  on I mean iOS changes autocorrect [TS]

  behavior in lots of versions like you [TS]

  know I'm sure iOS 10 changed in one way [TS]

  I always loved and changed at different [TS]

  ways now does like the machine learning [TS]

  to predict difference or privacy [TS]

  Corrections that are resulting in really [TS]

  embarrassing bugs like that you know I [TS]

  turning into the a box thing and and the [TS]

  IT from it thing they're gonna work it [TS]

  out you know I hope they do but you know [TS]

  there's definitely changes here but [TS]

  there's been changed before and they've [TS]

  worked it out the only other thing I [TS]

  could think of it might be a factor for [TS]

  you is that you're also on an iPhone 10 [TS]

  now because a different physical size [TS]

  than what you were you [TS]

  for the last few years and so that's [TS]

  also probably contributing to just it's [TS]

  different and your body has to get used [TS]

  to it it could be but I mean this has [TS]

  been happening since before the switch [TS]

  that's what I mentioned last week that [TS]

  are you sure it's not the size in case [TS]

  he said well it could be but there are [TS]

  other factors as well and everyone else [TS]

  was said who complained about it was [TS]

  very adamant that no it's not the size [TS]

  except for the few people who said it [TS]

  was the size but yeah it's it's it's [TS]

  difficult in this type of thing because [TS]

  even if it's not machine learning like [TS]

  yeah the machine learning is the type of [TS]

  thing where it's not like a human [TS]

  program the exact set of rules for it to [TS]

  behave it's supposed to learn on its own [TS]

  and improve so it's very difficult to [TS]

  know exactly how its behaving because [TS]

  it's very much data-driven but even in [TS]

  the rules based ones if the rules are [TS]

  complicated enough and changed often [TS]

  enough it still doesn't really help you [TS]

  nail down [TS]

  is this a better system than the one [TS]

  that preceded it did it did our tweak to [TS]

  this set of static rules help or hurt [TS]

  it's kind of I mean I'm not sure how [TS]

  you'd even measure that it's like a [TS]

  satisfaction what typing satisfaction [TS]

  measurement you just use face ID to look [TS]

  at the person's face and see if they're [TS]

  making a face like they just smelled [TS]

  something gross as they're trying to [TS]

  type Wow [TS]

  speaking of smelling something gross [TS]

  tell me about your touch bar you don't [TS]

  smell the Dutch bar but do touch the [TS]

  globe don't smell the globe smell the [TS]

  glove [TS]

  sniff the glove come on chat room help [TS]

  me I'm old and my brain doesn't work I [TS]

  have no idea what you're talking about [TS]

  yeah I noticed I didn't even bother [TS]

  asking you to yeah well that was wise [TS]

  you know as well smell the glove okay [TS]

  thank you I feel a little bit better [TS]

  final tap yeah still not your scene that [TS]

  I should turn it up to 11 what I do yeah [TS]

  there you go you know something's wrong [TS]

  so I just wanted to mark this this point [TS]

  in time where I got my 20 17 touch bar [TS]

  micro whenever it was a couple months [TS]

  ago and I've been using it and I do [TS]

  despite the fact that's mostly in [TS]

  clamshell on my desk want to go to [TS]

  meetings and travel around the office I [TS]

  do use it as an actual laptop and I [TS]

  really feel like I've given the touch [TS]

  bar you know a fair shake despite [TS]

  continuing day the escape button or lack [TS]

  thereof but I finally [TS]

  did something that I've wanted to do [TS]

  since they want but I've been resisting [TS]

  which has changed that preference in the [TS]

  keyboard settings that tells it to like [TS]

  the default setting is allow [TS]

  applications to change the touch bar so [TS]

  that when you're in Safari you see like [TS]

  safaris thumbnails and when you're in [TS]

  mail you see like the mail buttons and [TS]

  all that stuff right there's actually a [TS]

  setting in System Preferences and the [TS]

  keyboard system preference it says don't [TS]

  do that just show me the like the system [TS]

  controls all the time so the function [TS]

  keys and media control and the sound [TS]

  things basically making it like a little [TS]

  static graphical version of the regular [TS]

  keys that are on the MacBook Escape and [TS]

  I read isn't doing that because like [TS]

  look if you're going to give the touch [TS]

  bar a fair shake use it how it's [TS]

  supposed to be used use it in the [TS]

  default settings allow the applications [TS]

  to do all their stuff with it this who [TS]

  knows maybe there's some application [TS]

  that you use that you'll find the touch [TS]

  bar really useful and that was not the [TS]

  case and so and I was finding it [TS]

  distracting as the touch bar like [TS]

  changed from thing to thing as that like [TS]

  command tabbed around and so I just [TS]

  changed it to be static now so now I'm [TS]

  effectively using little pictures of [TS]

  keys that never change and I still wish [TS]

  they were regular keys so I put me down [TS]

  in the category of I can't say I'm an T [TS]

  touch bar because I just don't like [TS]

  laptops and so if I had to buy a laptop [TS]

  it having a touch bar or not probably be [TS]

  the least of my concerns but I didn't [TS]

  find a place for the touch bar in my [TS]

  life I just don't find myself looking at [TS]

  that part of the machine when I'm using [TS]

  it at all and maybe it's just because I [TS]

  have all habits or whatever but it [TS]

  didn't work out for me you were you were [TS]

  talking with some people in one of the [TS]

  slacks that were in together and you [TS]

  were talking about uh it wasn't window [TS]

  shade but I can't think of what it was [TS]

  so let's just call it window shade and [TS]

  you were talking about you know how you [TS]

  still have window shade enabled again it [TS]

  wasn't literally window shade but you [TS]

  have window shade enabled even to this [TS]

  day because you can't live without it [TS]

  this example people gonna think I've run [TS]

  window shade let's be clear I do not [TS]

  well yeah I know but I can't remember [TS]

  what the hell you talking about a [TS]

  classic Mac window layering that's gotta [TS]

  be it right maybe I don't know it [TS]

  doesn't really matter the point of [TS]

  driving it I think it's [TS]

  like window layering if I remember the [TS]

  conversation Greg there's people don't [TS]

  know what that is but anyway I'm pretty [TS]

  sure that's what it was so do you want [TS]

  to briefly describe what that is then [TS]

  that's just when you when you click a [TS]

  window and classic Mac OS any window on [TS]

  the screen if the window belongs to a [TS]

  different application than the frontmost [TS]

  one like an app when it belongs to an [TS]

  application that's not currently the [TS]

  active one [TS]

  it doesn't just bring that window to the [TS]

  front it brings that window and all the [TS]

  other windows owned by that application [TS]

  to the front and that's how I you know [TS]

  use the Mac for 16 years before Mac OS [TS]

  10 came along that way and that's how I [TS]

  like to use it and so I've during the [TS]

  entire life of Mac OS 10 and on Mac OS [TS]

  there have been various utilities that [TS]

  would change the window server behavior [TS]

  to act that way but in the Mac OS 10 [TS]

  timeline not only do you get that [TS]

  feature but you also most of the [TS]

  utilities I've use have allowed you to [TS]

  get back the other behavior because [TS]

  maybe you show it behaviors I'm like oh [TS]

  what if I just want wind one window to [TS]

  come to the front that behavior is it's [TS]

  not what I want at all all right it's [TS]

  just a matter of what you prefer because [TS]

  with the tools that I use you're just [TS]

  changing what the default is so for me [TS]

  shift click brings a single window to [TS]

  the front and just regular click blings [TS]

  all the windows have long to that [TS]

  application to the front and some people [TS]

  may like you to reverse where a regular [TS]

  click just brings that one window and [TS]

  then some modifier click brings all the [TS]

  windows or maybe you never want all the [TS]

  windows to come but how I work based on [TS]

  my habits [TS]

  I want the default to be all windows [TS]

  come to the front so I still do that I [TS]

  didn't even know like yes she [TS]

  shift-click doesn't do it by default it [TS]

  doesn't seem but anyway no no is the [TS]

  utility I think I'm using drag thing to [TS]

  do it right now but it's very I think [TS]

  native like the regular Mac out of the [TS]

  box doesn't have a way for you to bring [TS]

  all the windows to the front other than [TS]

  clicking like a dock icon or whatever [TS]

  like there's no modifier click on a [TS]

  window to noon I think in any case the [TS]

  reason I bring all this up is because it [TS]

  struck me hearing you talk about this [TS]

  that you and many other like old-school [TS]

  Mac people created these habits over the [TS]

  course of years that either because your [TS]

  petulantly stubborn or just used to it [TS]

  and probably both to be honest you just [TS]

  can't break yourself of them and [TS]

  I am glad that the list of things that I [TS]

  have that are like that I feel like is [TS]

  pretty small not to be fair Oh a young [TS]

  child yes you think it's the little [TS]

  small because your world hasn't yet [TS]

  changed wait until everyone's in VR and [TS]

  you're gonna be like I insist on using [TS]

  my fingers because I use my fingers for [TS]

  a really long time and you know what and [TS]

  to that end actually the obvious answer [TS]

  to this is no case you still prefer max [TS]

  so you're old and you're you're relying [TS]

  on old technology so your point is fair [TS]

  but it's just it's striking to me how [TS]

  you don't really like new things John I [TS]

  think you're taking the wrong lesson for [TS]

  this lesson this is like what is the [TS]

  advantage for me changing my habits [TS]

  there has to be an advantage that's to [TS]

  be a reason for me to train myself out [TS]

  of doing something that one reason could [TS]

  be that there is literally no way to do [TS]

  it the old way so guess what like hey [TS]

  that's the stick version you have no [TS]

  choice there is no more of that thing so [TS]

  forget about it and whatever but if [TS]

  there is a way to do it it's you know it [TS]

  strips like what is the cost of like [TS]

  enabling this way is it some hack that [TS]

  destroys your system stability is it [TS]

  something that you have to maintain and [TS]

  carefully like upgrade and compile from [TS]

  open source software or is like [TS]

  jailbreaking where every time a new OS [TS]

  comes out you have to get a new [TS]

  jailbreak or whatever like that would be [TS]

  the cost and the benefit is you just get [TS]

  to continue to use your old habits and [TS]

  it's not just habits in the case of [TS]

  winter layering the way I use Windows [TS]

  like my entire system of you know [TS]

  dealing with Windows like this is an [TS]

  important part of it the fact that I can [TS]

  grab a corner of a window that belongs [TS]

  to an application and bring all the [TS]

  windows of that application to the front [TS]

  like I don't have an alternate way to [TS]

  manage windows in that way like if I [TS]

  want to bring all the windows at the [TS]

  front I've got to go down to the dock [TS]

  icon but that that breaks my whole [TS]

  system of arranging windows you know [TS]

  spatially to have to use them as sort of [TS]

  grab handles and to have locality of [TS]

  cursor and not to constantly have to go [TS]

  down to the bottom of the screen or to [TS]

  the right or to the left or whatever so [TS]

  there are benefits to that system and [TS]

  from for this particular feature the [TS]

  drawbacks in terms of system stability [TS]

  or maintenance of a weird program or [TS]

  anything just haven't been there unlike [TS]

  for example window shade which I ran for [TS]

  a little while but eventually it was [TS]

  clear that Apple was never going to add [TS]

  it and you [TS]

  really add that some really nasty hacks [TS]

  to your system to use it so I I [TS]

  abandoned window shade but this I didn't [TS]

  abandon because it is a very minor [TS]

  change very cleanly implemented by [TS]

  multiple products that don't require any [TS]

  hacks to my system whatsoever and so I [TS]

  keep doing it so the lesson is not never [TS]

  learned new things or don't pick up new [TS]

  habit or whatever the lesson is you know [TS]

  don't don't blindly abandon the old for [TS]

  no benefit if there you know if it [TS]

  continues to work for you yeah but the [TS]

  benefit is not having to do any sort of [TS]

  tweaking right like something that Dan [TS]

  Benjamin said years and years and years [TS]

  ago which I I don't a hundred percent [TS]

  agree with but I understand his point [TS]

  was that like one should embrace the [TS]

  operating system defaults because it's [TS]

  that much less tweaking and finagling in [TS]

  messing about you need to do when you [TS]

  get a new machine you know because you [TS]

  can just accept the defaults and move on [TS]

  and to be fair like I have a not [TS]

  insignificant list of software that I [TS]

  considered completely required for me to [TS]

  use a computer for example Alfred for [TS]

  example one password for example Dropbox [TS]

  but in terms of like tweaking the system [TS]

  I don't feel like I'm that particularly [TS]

  needy I I say that because I'm probably [TS]

  more needy than then I realized but I [TS]

  don't think I'm that bad where is it [TS]

  seems like John and maybe this is just [TS]

  your advanced stage maybe it's your [TS]

  advanced experience but the platform but [TS]

  it seems like you're more needy in this [TS]

  department than I am I think I'm using [TS]

  less stuff than you as evidenced by my a [TS]

  nice clean menubar but like but argument [TS]

  only makes sense if you are forced to [TS]

  live in a hotel environment where you [TS]

  have to sit down in front of a fresh [TS]

  computer every day and start your work [TS]

  like we have migration assistant we have [TS]

  upgrade installs of operating systems [TS]

  like this is not an issue at all like I [TS]

  don't spend time setting up my new Macs [TS]

  like for the people who do that maybe [TS]

  it's a fun thing they like to do well I [TS]

  just wanna have a fresh system and reset [TS]

  it up I never reset up a machine from [TS]

  scratch I just I just do an upgrade [TS]

  install or use migration assistant all [TS]

  my stuff is already there and it's not [TS]

  that much stuff and dragged thing I'm [TS]

  running anyway because I like to have a [TS]

  thing on the screen that I can click on [TS]

  the just has applications in it doesn't [TS]

  minimize windows or folders in it so I [TS]

  use that as a separate application [TS]

  separate from its functionality for the [TS]

  window layering but it just happens to [TS]

  also do window layering so I'm getting [TS]

  two for one out of that particular [TS]

  application but no there's not that much [TS]

  stuff I have my favorite applications I [TS]

  run I think it runs zero system hacks of [TS]

  any kind anymore like like literally [TS]

  zero like nothing is a kernel extension [TS]

  or a symbol plug-in or anything like [TS]

  that [TS]

  I don't I run very few things that even [TS]

  display in the menu bar I run favorite [TS]

  applications I like BBEdit I like drag [TS]

  thing which is the plain old application [TS]

  with no weird hacks you know I run slack [TS]

  like we all do whether we like it or not [TS]

  I was gonna say do any of us really run [TS]

  slack or to slack run us like it's it's [TS]

  a yeah it's a it's a fairly clean set up [TS]

  and as we all know it's not like I get [TS]

  new Mac so often that I'm constantly [TS]

  setting my handles everything for me [TS]

  like honestly I don't I don't see any [TS]

  particular advantage in being able to [TS]

  stone and then in front of anybody's [TS]

  random computer and be able to use it [TS]

  comfortably because first of all it's [TS]

  not true for almost anybody like if you [TS]

  sit down there hit command space and [TS]

  spotlight comes up what are you gonna do [TS]

  where's your Alfred now right now like I [TS]

  don't there's the whole point is it [TS]

  except software you can install things [TS]

  on it to make it nicer to use that's why [TS]

  we like Mac's and so I have I attached [TS]

  no benefit to being able to use a stock [TS]

  Mac comfortably so do you have your [TS]

  squirrel direction as natural or the [TS]

  bogus old one I have the old way and [TS]

  again it's a setting that I said once [TS]

  back when they changed that setting like [TS]

  seven years ago I've never touched the [TS]

  setting again because it just migrates [TS]

  from computer to computer like it's you [TS]

  know how long did you try natural [TS]

  scrolling John no not at all like what's [TS]

  the benefit huh Apple added the option [TS]

  for that why would I try it like they [TS]

  you know it's not Apple at the option so [TS]

  I didn't feel like I had to run in the [TS]

  ax it happily takes away the option [TS]

  guess what I'm gonna switch scroll [TS]

  directions because what the hell choice [TS]

  do I have [TS]

  right but they haven't taken it away [TS]

  it's still there and I can I click that [TS]

  checkbox once many many years ago and I [TS]

  never think about it again so Marco are [TS]

  you natural scrolling or no didn't we [TS]

  talk about this recently I thought we [TS]

  did I thought we did but I couldn't [TS]

  remember the I did but Casey tends to [TS]

  forget yeah I'm also old scrolling [TS]

  because for the same reason that [TS]

  basically like [TS]

  I like I tried I tried natural scrolling [TS]

  when that option came out for like a [TS]

  half a day and I was like nope because [TS]

  god you're both sold for the same reason [TS]

  no because for the same reason I was [TS]

  already used to it and there was no [TS]

  pressure to actually change so it's like [TS]

  why should I go through the hassle of [TS]

  relearning this when I don't actually [TS]

  have to and maybe down the road I will [TS]

  have to but when that happens I'll learn [TS]

  it until then I don't want to and do you [TS]

  spend time click on that checkbox lot no [TS]

  you do it once and that's it even if the [TS]

  frequency I buy new max it isn't a big [TS]

  problem we are sponsored this week by [TS]

  aftershocks bone conduction headphones [TS]

  go to ATP aftershocks calm to learn more [TS]

  aftershokz headphones worked by a bone [TS]

  conduction this means small transducers [TS]

  rest in front of your ears not inside or [TS]

  around them like most headphones and [TS]

  they send tiny vibrations through your [TS]

  cheek bones directly to your inner ear [TS]

  totally bypass in your ears themselves [TS]

  so unlike every other kind of headphone [TS]

  bone conduction leave your ears [TS]

  completely open with nothing plugging [TS]

  them up or going around them so this is [TS]

  great first of all for comfort for me at [TS]

  least I can't wear things that go in my [TS]

  ear they just hurt after socks don't [TS]

  have that problem they're also great for [TS]

  exercise and hot weather because they [TS]

  don't have some kind of giant ear cup [TS]

  making your ear all sweaty because [TS]

  there's nothing actually resting on your [TS]

  ear it's just it's a little tiny thing [TS]

  that touches right in front area and [TS]

  they're also ip55 certified for water [TS]

  resistance in case you get really sweaty [TS]

  or it starts raining and the biggest [TS]

  difference is after shocks and this to [TS]

  me is what defines them this is what [TS]

  defines whether they're right for you [TS]

  and this will either sound great or [TS]

  awful to you is that nothing is blocking [TS]

  your ears at all so you hear all the [TS]

  sound from the world around you in [TS]

  addition to what you're listening to so [TS]

  this is actually not so great in like a [TS]

  very loud place like a subway station [TS]

  but it's awesome if you're doing [TS]

  something like taking a walk outside or [TS]

  walking through a city where you need to [TS]

  be able to hear what's around you for [TS]

  practicality or safety reasons they're [TS]

  also great while jogging or while [TS]

  cycling because you really don't want to [TS]

  be listening to anything that's gonna [TS]

  block out sound when you're doing [TS]

  something where the environment around [TS]

  you matters also just around the house [TS]

  or around the office you can take you [TS]

  you can do things like listen to a [TS]

  podcast or take a phone call while also [TS]

  hearing if say your kid upstairs wakes [TS]

  up from their nap or there's a knock on [TS]

  the door and it's the UPS person or [TS]

  something so they're great for all sorts [TS]

  of situations where you want to hear the [TS]

  world around you [TS]

  in addition to what you're listening to [TS]

  the flagship model in the after Sox [TS]

  lineup is the trek titanium and the new [TS]

  Trek's air these are both great options [TS]

  I've had both now I've had a few months [TS]

  with each one and you really can't go [TS]

  wrong with either wanting to be honest [TS]

  the Trek's titanium is a little more [TS]

  pocketable the treks air is a little bit [TS]

  lighter and a little more comfortable so [TS]

  it's really up to you what your [TS]

  priorities are they're both fantastic [TS]

  you can't go wrong both of them have [TS]

  great battery life they have a two year [TS]

  warranty and honestly either one you're [TS]

  pretty you're pretty well off so check [TS]

  it out today at ATP aftershock to calm [TS]

  once again ATP aftershocks calm and you [TS]

  can also use code ATP if you want to a [TS]

  check out thank you very much - [TS]

  aftershocks for sponsoring our show I [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  wish to move on from these turf wars [TS]

  that I'm starting I and why doesn't [TS]

  somebody tell me about this link about [TS]

  Johnny I've and him hearing our Macbook [TS]

  criticism yeah this there's many been [TS]

  many Johnny I've article recently most [TS]

  of them live just since the paper didn't [TS]

  haven't read but this one had a quote [TS]

  that I wanted to pull it was some [TS]

  someone asking Johnny I have about you [TS]

  know current Apple stuff and he was [TS]

  actually giving answers and so here is a [TS]

  quote from this article which we will [TS]

  link is Johnny I've saying absolutely [TS]

  all of your feelings and feedback around [TS]

  the MacBook you use we couldn't want to [TS]

  listen more and we hear boy do we hear [TS]

  so this is it's not much of a statement [TS]

  but it's merely merely confirmation that [TS]

  if you think Johnny I've created the [TS]

  current line of MacBook and MacBook Pros [TS]

  and thinks they're perfect and has no [TS]

  idea that people have complaints about [TS]

  them that is not the case he pretty [TS]

  emphatically stated basically yes I have [TS]

  heard complaints about this computer and [TS]

  two things one we want to hear your [TS]

  feedback about it it's not like we're [TS]

  saying we made a perfect thing and screw [TS]

  you if you don't like it and two they're [TS]

  definitely hearing it so I think that [TS]

  was refreshing because there's so little [TS]

  communication inside Apple that you [TS]

  could have a bunch of podcasts were a [TS]

  bunch of people ramble on about how it [TS]

  seems like apples not listening to us or [TS]

  might live in a bubble and don't hear [TS]

  the things that we're saying and that is [TS]

  not the case maybe the the Mac Pro [TS]

  roundtable this past spring was one of [TS]

  the most straightforward honest and [TS]

  almost apologetic statements to the [TS]

  public [TS]

  Apple has ever really given you know [TS]

  that was like the only time they've ever [TS]

  kind of done mea culpa I'm like yeah [TS]

  this this product week we kind of messed [TS]

  up and and we're gonna fix it I don't [TS]

  think we're gonna get one of those for [TS]

  the problems of the current generation [TS]

  of MacBook Pro but this is about as [TS]

  close as you can get I think this this [TS]

  statement to me says like you know this [TS]

  was this was not some like off-the-cuff [TS]

  accidental thing that he let slip out [TS]

  like I'm sure he I'm sure he thought [TS]

  about that before he said it and knew [TS]

  what he was saying and I think this is [TS]

  as close as they're going to come to [TS]

  there's been a lot of negative feedback [TS]

  about this generation of laptops and we [TS]

  hear you yeah and we don't know what [TS]

  they're gonna do about it [TS]

  you know it could be that what they do [TS]

  is still doesn't satisfy satisfy some [TS]

  people don't sighs fellas but but you [TS]

  but you can't say at this point that [TS]

  they have their heads in the sand which [TS]

  is the thing that you could have said [TS]

  was they're so they're so bad about [TS]

  giving any sort of transparency to their [TS]

  thinking because all you hear is like [TS]

  the earnings call and about how many of [TS]

  these things they're selling and how [TS]

  their profits that are great and it's [TS]

  like you have this fear that like maybe [TS]

  they think everything is awesome because [TS]

  they're selling more like and their [TS]

  customer satisfaction they ever sold [TS]

  before like all everything looks good [TS]

  you know and you you worry that that [TS]

  your concerns are irrelevant because who [TS]

  cares what you think about the keyboard [TS]

  if tons of people are buying them then [TS]

  you're wrong and Apple should do what [TS]

  sells more Mac's and makes more [TS]

  customers happy right and that is the [TS]

  fear of being marginalized but to hear [TS]

  this direct feedback that you know and [TS]

  boy do we hear like that not only do we [TS]

  oh yeah we hear still be a lot of [TS]

  problems but like that the Johnny I'm in [TS]

  particular is probably getting an earful [TS]

  about like you know slimline keyboards [TS]

  that he insisted on or whatever who [TS]

  knows but the particular details are but [TS]

  I you know I like I like the idea of [TS]

  communicating to the public something [TS]

  that says we acknowledge you and and [TS]

  merely acknowledging doesn't mean we [TS]

  agree with you it doesn't mean you we're [TS]

  going to do what you want but it does [TS]

  say we're not sticking our head in the [TS]

  sand and pretending you don't exist and [TS]

  also that [TS]

  not disregarding you like they could [TS]

  have said like what kind of already said [TS]

  about Apple Park where's another quote [TS]

  that didn't pull from here which is like [TS]

  I don't understand when people complain [TS]

  about Apple park is essentially like we [TS]

  didn't build it for you you don't work [TS]

  for Apple it's for people who work at [TS]

  Apple and we know how people who work at [TS]

  Apple work and you don't so stop [TS]

  complaining about our building like [TS]

  we're not building a house for you [TS]

  that's a different kind of feedback [TS]

  which is like we hear you but we think [TS]

  you are not what is it you don't have [TS]

  standing we hear you but we don't care [TS]

  yeah you don't have standing you're not [TS]

  a party in this conversation like do you [TS]

  work at Apple then maybe we'll listen to [TS]

  you about how much you like the place [TS]

  where you have to work if you work at [TS]

  Apple or not you don't have to visit my [TS]

  old campus do but anyway but if you [TS]

  don't work at Apple you can have your [TS]

  opinions but we're not gonna listen to [TS]

  it because we're building you know the [TS]

  place where Apple employees right now [TS]

  obviously I feel like if someone was [TS]

  more of an apple never thinking to come [TS]

  back with giant said yeah but Apple [TS]

  employees also have complaints about [TS]

  this spaceship and so you could say [TS]

  these are in my complaints I'm really [TS]

  conveying to you the things that I have [TS]

  heard Apple employees tell me you know [TS]

  anonymously or otherwise about how they [TS]

  want to have private offices and blah [TS]

  blah is everything but clearly Johnny [TS]

  was not ready to to accept that feedback [TS]

  about Apple Park but he seems ready to [TS]

  accept the feedback about the laptops [TS]

  the question is what happens next or [TS]

  what has already happened because as we [TS]

  talked about before the timelines on [TS]

  hardware designs are long and for all we [TS]

  know eight months ago they already made [TS]

  a radical right turn about their [TS]

  keyboard plans for the next line of [TS]

  laptops and we'll find out when they're [TS]

  released here's hoping all right [TS]

  ask ATP and we begin with Josh Keegan [TS]

  who writes I grew up a huge book reader [TS]

  my wife did two combined we have three [TS]

  or four bookcases full of paperbacks on [TS]

  hard covers I recently decided that we [TS]

  should get rid of them they seem archaic [TS]

  to me now in the age of e-books my wife [TS]

  disagrees and so they remain do you guys [TS]

  have a lot of books in the house just [TS]

  keeping paper books seem old-fashioned [TS]

  to you let me start by saying having us [TS]

  adjudicate your marital deliberations is [TS]

  probably not a wise choice but that [TS]

  being said I we Aaron and I are both [TS]

  pretty big readers Aaron more so than me [TS]

  I feel like I just don't have time for [TS]

  it probably because I'm spending too [TS]

  much time on Twitter [TS]

  because I'm an idiot but nevertheless I [TS]

  do enjoy reading novels I do quite like [TS]

  reading a physical book if I if I can I [TS]

  prefer physical book over anything else [TS]

  unless I'm travelling but anyways I [TS]

  don't see a problem with books if you [TS]

  don't need the space for anything else I [TS]

  don't know why you would get rid of them [TS]

  but I am NOT one that is deeply bothered [TS]

  by by I'm gonna say clutter although it [TS]

  doesn't sound like it's clutter stuff [TS]

  contained in a books yes stuff thank you [TS]

  so I say my vote is keep them unless you [TS]

  have a reason for that space but that's [TS]

  just me Marco what do you think we have [TS]

  some books there they're in a bookshelf [TS]

  in the living room it's a nice big [TS]

  built-in thing and it would look weird [TS]

  if it was empty and so we keep a whole [TS]

  lot of books there [TS]

  we don't actually really add or remove [TS]

  or use the books there very often and so [TS]

  most of the books just sit there and [TS]

  look pretty [TS]

  but that is a useful function they look [TS]

  pretty on these giant shelves that are [TS]

  built into our house and if they were [TS]

  gone it would be weird so you know like [TS]

  what you just had case like I don't [TS]

  really I don't see any problem with [TS]

  having them there they're not causing [TS]

  any harm they don't have any needs [TS]

  really and there's nothing else that we [TS]

  would put on those shelves [TS]

  at the moment so if that ever changes if [TS]

  we really need the space or if for some [TS]

  reason we want to tear those shelves out [TS]

  of out of the walls then sure I will [TS]

  push to get rid of to get rid of them [TS]

  then but if they're not causing problems [TS]

  for you I don't I don't see why you'd [TS]

  get rid of them I like books I've [TS]

  collected books since I was very young [TS]

  not just for the words on the pages but [TS]

  to the point where I would buy multiple [TS]

  copies of a book I like because I like [TS]

  the books as objects you know special [TS]

  editions of books leather-bound versions [TS]

  of books books with fancy illustrations [TS]

  or shiny covers a really thick paper [TS]

  stock I like books as objects yeah in [TS]

  addition to liking the words in them [TS]

  when I went to work for what was at the [TS]

  time the largest ebook seller in the [TS]

  world back in back in the early days [TS]

  before Amazon even got into the game I [TS]

  got converted to ebooks pretty much [TS]

  wholesale so I prefer to actually read [TS]

  books in electronic form but I still [TS]

  have a huge soft spot for the physical [TS]

  books I would do the things where I [TS]

  would buy the book and read it [TS]

  a book for him but then by the first [TS]

  edition hardcover just to put in the [TS]

  Shelf that I literally never opened so [TS]

  I'm obviously very Pro book my problem [TS]

  is if you if you were like this and you [TS]

  really like books as physical objects [TS]

  and you're not fantastically wealthy [TS]

  eventually you will run out of room to [TS]

  put books our house is essentially [TS]

  overflowing with books most bookshelves [TS]

  double and triple stacked with books in [TS]

  the Attic and so now I've mostly put a [TS]

  moratorium on buying more paper books [TS]

  because I I can't I don't want to [TS]

  displace any books that I have so right [TS]

  now I mostly only by very large [TS]

  beautiful coffee table books filled with [TS]

  illustrations or like those really [TS]

  gigantic awesome making of Star Wars [TS]

  books that had that I have lots of words [TS]

  and illustrations in them that would be [TS]

  difficult to do in electronic form [TS]

  unless someone gives me my 27 inch iPad [TS]

  pro so I am all for physical books but [TS]

  like so many physical objects if you [TS]

  continue down that path you will [TS]

  probably eventually run out of room for [TS]

  books Craig writes [TS]

  why does Apple refused to make desktop [TS]

  back like keyboards gaming keyboards go [TS]

  crazy with any on lights do you think [TS]

  Apple would ever make a desktop keyboard [TS]

  with just enough light to see your keys [TS]

  I have a hard time answering this [TS]

  question because I can touch type and I [TS]

  have been able to for a very long time [TS]

  so this having lights on my keyboard [TS]

  does not really help me I presume that [TS]

  they don't really have any interest in [TS]

  this because it would you know cause the [TS]

  the battery on your magic keyboard to [TS]

  drain even faster and yes I know it's [TS]

  easily rechargeable you don't have to [TS]

  harpoon a turtle to do it but [TS]

  nevertheless you know it's nice not [TS]

  having to plug my keyboard in but once [TS]

  every month or two and so I don't think [TS]

  they will personally but I don't know [TS]

  that's my two cents mark we went to you [TS]

  first last time so John what do you [TS]

  think even if you touch type the reason [TS]

  they have the light of keyboards and [TS]

  laptop is they think people will be [TS]

  using them in dark places and yeah you [TS]

  can touch type but can you touch type [TS]

  the media keys can you touch type the [TS]

  function keys most people can't like [TS]

  it's just too far of a reach and they're [TS]

  just too weird and you casually have to [TS]

  glance and see you know where is you [TS]

  know f7 or where is the pause key or you [TS]

  know or whatever I mean help with these [TS]

  new keyboards you can't even touch that [TS]

  the air [TS]

  keys yeah well you can eventually if you [TS]

  feel for the little divider and the two [TS]

  halves the key is for top and bottom [TS]

  before you go to the left right but [TS]

  anyway it's annoying so I think there is [TS]

  a place for backlighting on keyboards [TS]

  even for touch typists but for desktop [TS]

  keyboards if you're using a desktop [TS]

  keyboard in a dark place that's kind of [TS]

  your choice probably like it's not like [TS]

  a laptop where you may find yourself on [TS]

  a plane where everybody's sleeping or [TS]

  you know in an environment where the [TS]

  lighting is not ideal and like I said [TS]

  you do have the charging difficulty so I [TS]

  don't think Apple's opposed to back of [TS]

  the keyboards I wouldn't expect any neon [TS]

  ones I feel like it's a thing I can see [TS]

  Apple shipping if they could if they [TS]

  could sort out the battery issues they [TS]

  would probably ship it you know just [TS]

  because someone will get it in an idea [TS]

  that it's at its usual thing to have and [TS]

  they can charge a little bit more Ani [TS]

  for the backup version they would do it [TS]

  but honestly unless someone inside Apple [TS]

  is really passionate about this I just [TS]

  see them leaving it as a third party [TS]

  opportunity as they say because they [TS]

  haven't come out with one by now they [TS]

  obviously don't think it's a big need [TS]

  you know using PC gaming keyboards that [TS]

  are full of LEDs as an example is not a [TS]

  good example of why Apple should do this [TS]

  because things are hideous and I think [TS]

  if you if Apple knows those exist which [TS]

  I kind of hope that no one there knows [TS]

  but if they do know they would use that [TS]

  as an argument and why not to make these [TS]

  things but yeah also as you mentioned it [TS]

  would have to be charged you definitely [TS]

  more frequently also I think that the [TS]

  you know the need for word is less on [TS]

  desktops because desktop screens are so [TS]

  much bigger and you keep them so much [TS]

  brighter usually because there's no [TS]

  battery concern but there's a pretty [TS]

  good chance there's the light from the [TS]

  screen lights up the keys enough to show [TS]

  you where the keys are even in a pitch [TS]

  dark room so I think the need for it is [TS]

  significantly lower it does however just [TS]

  look cool like when it's done right like [TS]

  the way apples are done with subtle [TS]

  white lighting and supposed to blue LEDs [TS]

  when done tastefully like that it can [TS]

  look really cool it just looks like a [TS]

  nice luxury product like on the laptops [TS]

  this isn't to say that they should never [TS]

  do it but I don't think they will just [TS]

  because again charging needs the less [TS]

  actual like physical need for it because [TS]

  you can see your keyboard usually more [TS]

  like in desktops and also that the [TS]

  desktop keyboards are just a pretty low [TS]

  priority for Apple [TS]

  they don't really redesign them that [TS]

  often or put that much effort into them [TS]

  so I even you know from that point of [TS]

  view I think it would be very hard to [TS]

  argue that Apple should you know put in [TS]

  the effort to make that happen on a [TS]

  hardware line that they update what [TS]

  every ten years all right and finally [TS]

  pretend stats have rights how does [TS]

  dynamic ad targeting and podcasts work [TS]

  ad companies say they can target [TS]

  listeners but Marco has said that you [TS]

  can only really know how many downloads [TS]

  the mp3 podcast file gets and that's [TS]

  about it when it comes to data save for [TS]

  proprietary apps and then he added this [TS]

  one is for Casey I'm not sure because I [TS]

  feel like I am deeply in ill-equipped [TS]

  answer this question but this sounds [TS]

  like it's two different things to me all [TS]

  rolled into one or maybe I just would [TS]

  like someone Marco I guess to clarify so [TS]

  when I when I hear dynamic in podcasts [TS]

  what I think is there is there are [TS]

  podcasts [TS]

  I don't know servers for lack of a [TS]

  better description or networks where [TS]

  they know that an ad starts at ten [TS]

  minutes and it is two minutes long and [TS]

  they can run an ad in that spot for a [TS]

  week or two and then change that ad to [TS]

  be something else and they'll Rhian code [TS]

  or I'm assuming re-encode the mp3 and [TS]

  for two weeks it'll be the next ad and [TS]

  then so on and so forth but but what [TS]

  proton is talking about is different [TS]

  than that if I'm not mistaken which is [TS]

  Oh Casey is a white male that is in its [TS]

  mid 30s [TS]

  let's give him these ads as opposed to [TS]

  different ones so Marco can you kind of [TS]

  tell me what this is all about yeah the [TS]

  the latter theory you have is the more [TS]

  correct one so the reason the reason [TS]

  this came up and the reason I put it in [TS]

  here as a question I wanted to answer is [TS]

  that a lot of people are starting to [TS]

  hear what are pretty clearly like [TS]

  dynamically on demand inserted ads in [TS]

  usually popular podcasts this past year [TS]

  there have been a lot of major podcasts [TS]

  like from major producers like some of [TS]

  the public radio producers and some of [TS]

  the big networks major producers are now [TS]

  frequently using dynamic ad insertion [TS]

  and what this is is [TS]

  new ads can be inserted on every [TS]

  download on every request that the file [TS]

  gets every you know download request [TS]

  from a client or a web browser can have [TS]

  different ads in it they don't do every [TS]

  encoding they do it by splicing because [TS]

  the mp3 file format is very very easy to [TS]

  splice which might lead into a future [TS]

  topic if we ever get to it the so [TS]

  basically what they do is your download [TS]

  request from your podcast player or your [TS]

  web browser hits they're basically add [TS]

  splicing server and based on your IP [TS]

  address and anything you can glean from [TS]

  your headers which fortunately for a [TS]

  podcast app is pretty minimal but it can [TS]

  at least tell usually which podcast app [TS]

  you're using what kind of device and [TS]

  what OS version it has and you know from [TS]

  your IP address it can derive your [TS]

  approximate location now if it's a big [TS]

  ad network and if it's integrated with [TS]

  web ads then they can also derive other [TS]

  things that things that a web browser [TS]

  can pick up and they can correlate that [TS]

  data based on your IP address and you [TS]

  know and maybe you know maybe some idea [TS]

  of what your phone model is they can [TS]

  then correlate that with other data they [TS]

  have from other sources like maybe [TS]

  Facebook or Twitter or other big ad [TS]

  networks and they can figure out more [TS]

  about you but all the podcast app is [TS]

  providing is whatever whatever the e [TS]

  they would get if you fetched say an [TS]

  image off their servers which is your IP [TS]

  address and a user agent header that's [TS]

  it but that is enough that you that a [TS]

  lot of people report hearing like an ad [TS]

  for a local car dealership in the middle [TS]

  of a podcast from a national provider [TS]

  and that creeps people out and they [TS]

  wonder what's going on a lot of times [TS]

  they blame overcast or they ask me like [TS]

  hey what's this how did this work but [TS]

  yeah this is just these big publishers [TS]

  are now very very frequently using these [TS]

  dynamic ad insertion platforms and the [TS]

  way it works is pretty simple as is it [TS]

  like you know they derive whatever they [TS]

  can from your IP address and the user [TS]

  agent header and then they they throw in [TS]

  an ad and mp3 is a very forgiving and [TS]

  simple format it's very very easy to [TS]

  take chunks out of and splice in so in [TS]

  their CMS is when they produce the shows [TS]

  they just say you [TS]

  you can put an ad at you know these two [TS]

  timestamps in the show the main problem [TS]

  I have with it as as a listener first of [TS]

  all is it's kind of creepy in the ads [TS]

  are pretty oftentimes pretty low value [TS]

  ads because there are things like car [TS]

  dealerships and it just turns into [TS]

  basically what radio ads were which is [TS]

  not something any of us should ever [TS]

  ascribe or aspire to because they're [TS]

  really you know bargain-basement low [TS]

  price low value ads so hopefully that's [TS]

  not the world we're heading towards here [TS]

  but also it causes other problems so for [TS]

  instance the mp3 file format specifies [TS]

  length in about three different ways and [TS]

  a lot of times these these splicing ad [TS]

  platforms don't update them all [TS]

  correctly so it causes weird problems in [TS]

  players like mine where sometimes [TS]

  certain files will say and two minutes [TS]

  early because that's the amount of AD [TS]

  they injected and they forgot to update [TS]

  the duration or their platform didn't do [TS]

  it right or something like that or [TS]

  seeking will be slightly broken or [TS]

  something like that [TS]

  other the other major problem is even if [TS]

  you get past the technical hurdles there [TS]

  because the ads they insert are not [TS]

  consistent lengths it starts to erode [TS]

  the value of timestamp links so you [TS]

  can't for instance say oh you got to [TS]

  hear you know this you know NPR podcast [TS]

  at at 17 minutes because you're the 17 [TS]

  minutes when you download the file might [TS]

  be a different part of the file then [TS]

  then what the person who is telling you [TS]

  that had and their copy of the file [TS]

  because if you had ten minutes of ads in [TS]

  yours and they had seven minutes of ads [TS]

  in theirs you're gonna be three minutes [TS]

  off so it arose the value of sharing [TS]

  timestamps and and of referring to [TS]

  timestamps which i think is very [TS]

  damaging to the spread of podcasts but [TS]

  ultimately I don't have any real say in [TS]

  this they're gonna do what they're gonna [TS]

  do they are doing it and I've tried to [TS]

  argue with some of these producers they [TS]

  shouldn't be doing this but they are [TS]

  anyway so oh well this is where we live [TS]

  in now and that's how it works it's it's [TS]

  pretty basic and I wish it didn't work [TS]

  that way but it does the good thing is [TS]

  that it can't ever get as bad as web [TS]

  tracking you know when you fetch a web [TS]

  page your browser executes code on that [TS]

  page is behalf that has any JavaScript [TS]

  embedded which these days it always does [TS]

  so the amount of data that a web [TS]

  Paige can collect about you is way [TS]

  higher than the amount of [TS]

  higher than the amount of [TS]

  data that a podcast publisher can [TS]

  collect about you because when your [TS]

  podcast downloads the file it's just [TS]

  playing a media file it is not executing [TS]

  arbitrary code supplied by the publisher [TS]

  so they can't add any more tracking or [TS]

  collect any more data or observe your [TS]

  behavior any more than a person at this [TS]

  IP address and using this app downloaded [TS]

  this file that's it that's all the [TS]

  information they have again they can [TS]

  correlate that if they know more about [TS]

  that IP address from other sources but [TS]

  as far as the podcast player and that's [TS]

  all it's giving them but the scary thing [TS]

  though is that anything that people [TS]

  don't think about is that they do have a [TS]

  source for correlation they know so much [TS]

  about your IP address because chances [TS]

  are very good in the recent past you [TS]

  have hit a webpage somewhere that has [TS]

  some Facebook embedded widget they got [TS]

  your Facebook cookies and now knows who [TS]

  you are on Facebook and now is know your [TS]

  entire social graph and your first and [TS]

  last name and the last thing you bought [TS]

  from Amazon and like those ad networks [TS]

  that's all they're doing is correlating [TS]

  a user activity across multiple [TS]

  platforms and just synthesizing it into [TS]

  this you know up-to-date knowledge about [TS]

  a particular person or IP address or [TS]

  combination of IP address and user agent [TS]

  and whatever else they can glean from [TS]

  your device like that's that's all these [TS]

  networks do and so even though the [TS]

  podcast player is not revealing is [TS]

  really the minimum it possibly can about [TS]

  you once they go off to the side and [TS]

  look up all the other stuff that's [TS]

  that's how they know like that you're [TS]

  shopping for toilets and it's now it's [TS]

  time to show you a toilet know where you [TS]

  live they they know who your friends are [TS]

  they know you've been shopping for [TS]

  toilets and they're gonna insert the [TS]

  toilet ad and that seems terrifying but [TS]

  it's because of all the rest of the [TS]

  internet particularly the web not [TS]

  because of the podcast player and that's [TS]

  why these things are creepy the idea [TS]

  that they the aggragate and and [TS]

  centralize this knowledge so that [TS]

  there's almost nothing you can do on the [TS]

  internet where they can't figure out who [TS]

  you are through those kinds of [TS]

  correlations so you know I don't know [TS]

  what the solution is but the the [TS]

  relative purity of podcast doesn't [TS]

  actually save us from anything and even [TS]

  you know for stuff like show notes if [TS]

  you can put HTML and show notes it's [TS]

  only a matter of time before one or more [TS]

  podcast applications pre-render the show [TS]

  notes and are not as scrupulous as [TS]

  overcast about allowing what appears and [TS]

  then HTML and [TS]

  sort of take the easy way out and just [TS]

  throw some content from a feed into a [TS]

  web view and that executes and it has a [TS]

  little tracking you know blip and embeds [TS]

  a Facebook widget and runs JavaScript [TS]

  and who knows what else like so the the [TS]

  web has a way of seeping into many [TS]

  different corners of applications and if [TS]

  you're if you're not constantly fighting [TS]

  against that tide is really easy for [TS]

  creepy stuff to sneak into your [TS]

  application we are sponsored this week [TS]

  by Linode my favorite web host go to [TS] slash ATP to learn more and [TS]

  use code accidental podcast 10 to get a [TS]

  $10 credit Linode is the best web host I [TS]

  have ever used I have trust me a lot of [TS]

  experience with hosted web servers going [TS]

  all the way back to the year 2000 and [TS]

  I've I've hosted literally hundreds of [TS]

  servers and VPS since then at probably [TS]

  10 or 15 different web posts and Linode [TS]

  just kicks their butts it's so much [TS]

  better on so many levels that's why I [TS]

  move everything there now it is just so [TS]

  much more pleasant to use their pricing [TS]

  is incredibly compelling plans start at [TS]

  just $10 a month littered now offers two [TS]

  gigs of RAM at that $10 a month level [TS]

  this is pretty much unheard of in the [TS]

  web hosting industry I mean the [TS]

  resources you get for $10 a month Linode [TS]

  I used to pay hundreds of dollars a [TS]

  month for not that long ago and they [TS]

  have all sorts of great features they [TS]

  have managed backups they have managed [TS]

  load balancers which I use they're [TS]

  wonderful they have managed stats if you [TS]

  want that they have both managed and [TS]

  unmanaged services for your actual [TS]

  Linode themselves so if you need help [TS]

  that's available to you but it's mostly [TS]

  made for unmanaged people who want to [TS]

  run it yourself and they have all sorts [TS]

  of great documentation and tutorials if [TS]

  you just to learn how to run a Linux [TS]

  server if you have any questions [TS]

  in fact chances are if you've ever [TS]

  googled for some kind of answer on how [TS]

  to run a Linux server you've probably [TS]

  come across their help documentation [TS]

  even if you weren't using Linode because [TS]

  that's how good it is that it ranks [TS]

  highly in the search engine because [TS]

  people keep using it Linode stuff is so [TS]

  great it's so easy to use $10 a month [TS]

  gets you two gigs of ram in a virtual [TS]

  server you have full root access you can [TS]

  install whatever you want it's wonderful [TS]

  so check out Linode today I highly [TS]

  recommend it it is the only web host you [TS]

  should be looking at if what you're [TS]

  looking for is straight up web hosting [TS]

  go to slash ATP and use [TS]

  accidental podcast 10 to get a $10 [TS]

  credit thank you so much to Linode for [TS]

  hosting all of my stuff and supporting [TS]

  this show Thursday night I'm laying in [TS]

  bed and I'm looking at you know Twitter [TS]

  or what have you and I'm starting to see [TS]

  that that people in the future are very [TS]

  perturbed and they're perturbed because [TS]

  apparently some of their phones are [TS]

  endlessly rebooting and I'm starting to [TS]

  see like text messages or slack messages [TS]

  from friends who live in the future and [TS]

  they're saying oh my god something is [TS]

  deeply wrong change your phone's clock [TS]

  what change your phone's clock because [TS]

  once you hit Friday the air I'm sorry [TS]

  once you hit I guess was Friday night it [TS]

  doesn't matter boy one of these days [TS]

  once you hit overnight at like 12:15 [TS]

  suddenly your phone will go bananas I [TS]

  think it was Friday night into Saturday [TS]

  that's my bad yeah it was into December [TS]

  2nd yep so change your phone Casey [TS]

  either turn off all notifications which [TS]

  there is no big red you know abort [TS]

  switch for notifications so you have to [TS]

  go into every single app and turn them [TS]

  off or change your clocks such that you [TS]

  will never roll over the very early [TS]

  morning of December 2nd which is what I [TS]

  did and that causes a whole new world of [TS]

  problems that are not terribly [TS]

  interesting but it was it was a pain in [TS]

  the butt that was my first question I [TS]

  was gonna ask you when I was going I'm [TS]

  living backwards in time going through [TS]

  your old Twitter pass and seeing that [TS]

  you and lots of other people not just [TS]

  you went with that option like [TS]

  something's wrong we're not quite sure [TS]

  what it is at this point in time but one [TS]

  of the suggested solutions is to set [TS]

  your clock back and a bunch of people [TS]

  who I felt like should know better said [TS]

  I'll do that I'll set my clock back well [TS]

  will will slow down what are my options [TS]

  so I have three options to my mind I can [TS]

  wait and see and potentially end up with [TS]

  a phone that is not bricked but is damn [TS]

  near useless [TS]

  I can pray that I don't get zapped by [TS]

  this bug or I can set my clock back and [TS]

  just deal with some inconveniences yep [TS]

  but both [TS]

  two options are better than setting your [TS]

  clock back like in general I would say [TS]

  like as a computer user rule of thumb [TS]

  this didn't used to be true but has been [TS]

  true for the past I don't know decade or [TS]

  so since SSL [TS]

  yeah probably but but even actually [TS]

  maybe even before don't change the date [TS]

  on your computer because unbeknownst to [TS]

  you tons of things on your computer and [TS]

  especially on your phone don't work if [TS]

  you're if the date your date is not the [TS]

  real date things like iMessage which you [TS]

  probably care about a lot like texting [TS]

  is a very popular application it was [TS]

  very recent all those things there's [TS]

  nothing they will instantly break but [TS]

  they can break websites the popular [TS]

  websites that you use applications that [TS]

  like many many things depend on the date [TS]

  so like the options you listed like you [TS]

  could cross your fingers and hope you [TS]

  could wait for a different thing another [TS]

  one is you could just shut down your [TS]

  phone and wait with your phone turned [TS]

  also at the very least you know like [TS]

  whatever data is on your phone is safe [TS]

  because the thing is off right and then [TS]

  just find out what the duskiness out but [TS]

  you know for a fact that changing the [TS]

  date is gonna mess some things up maybe [TS]

  a few things maybe a lot of things and [TS]

  the main reason I wouldn't changed in [TS]

  this case is in a sort of an unknown [TS]

  type scenario where you don't know what [TS]

  the deal is like is this a big bug is it [TS]

  a little bug what's the fix gonna be is [TS]

  Apple gonna have a thing there's so many [TS]

  unknowns I wouldn't want to add to the [TS]

  noise with date stuffed and this [TS]

  happened with a lot of people who would [TS]

  set their date back where once the bug [TS]

  fix was out they're like oh the they [TS]

  fixed the bug but now I can't FaceTime [TS]

  with people and it was because they had [TS]

  said the date back and now their face ID [TS]

  or whatever was yeah and now they're [TS]

  suffering from the fallout of their [TS]

  attempted fix so it's counterintuitive [TS]

  if you haven't dealt with any of things [TS]

  but perhaps surprisingly changed in the [TS]

  data on your computer or phone can and [TS]

  will cause all sorts of weird problems [TS]

  that are difficult to attribute or [TS]

  diagnose and won't give you nice error [TS]

  messages that say oh you change your [TS]

  date so I would suggest that if that [TS]

  among all the options that you have pick [TS]

  that one last pick that one after you [TS]

  know prefer the option of simply turning [TS]

  off your phone [TS]

  so I disagree I'd also add to the list [TS]

  of problems that it causes [TS]

  will sink bugs and possible data loss [TS]

  with apps that sink yes because a lot of [TS]

  sink engines are the a lot of sing [TS]

  engines try to resolve merges changes [TS]

  and conflicts using time this isn't [TS]

  always the best approach but this is [TS]

  basically how a lot of them do it anyway [TS]

  so sometimes it salts antennas all [TS]

  you've got depending on how the same [TS]

  service works right and there's all [TS]

  sorts of methods to sync but that but [TS]

  using time to help resolve like who [TS]

  changed what lasts and whose version of [TS]

  there should be the authoritative [TS]

  version is a very very common way to do [TS]

  it so if you change your date back not [TS]

  only are you likely to not only be [TS]

  causing a whole bunch of other weird [TS]

  stuff to happen for instance late you've [TS]

  now created like two copies of December [TS]

  1st in your computing environment and [TS]

  like so like things can be written to [TS]

  the to the file system or things can be [TS]

  changed or things can be dated in a way [TS]

  that makes them seem like they were [TS]

  sequential in one direction but they [TS]

  were actually sequential in the other [TS]

  direction or like there's so many weird [TS]

  things that can happen this doesn't [TS]

  usually happen with daylight saving time [TS]

  bugs because a that doesn't actually [TS]

  change the underlying unix time value of [TS]

  the computer and be you're normally [TS]

  asleep between 2:00 and 3:00 in the [TS]

  morning so it doesn't usually affect you [TS]

  and here because you're not usually [TS]

  using a computer at that point but [TS]

  changing your clock backed by a whole [TS]

  day gives you a large opportunity to [TS]

  make a whole bunch of changes and and [TS]

  create data and make edits to things and [TS]

  things like that in a way that will very [TS]

  much confuse software and cause weird [TS]

  bugs to happen that you might not [TS]

  immediately see see and I understand [TS]

  that but I think two different comments [TS]

  in the chatroom kind of sum up my [TS]

  opinion psycho Mac head said tons of [TS]

  things not working is better than [TS]

  everything not working and I agree with [TS]

  that because I your guys aren't wrong [TS]

  you're absolutely right but I didn't [TS]

  know at the time and I knew I was about [TS]

  to go to sleep for the evening and cross [TS]

  into this no-man's land I didn't know at [TS]

  the time how bad the error was like I [TS]

  heard it was just a constant respring [TS]

  but I didn't know if it was a constant [TS]

  ray spring every two seconds every two [TS]

  minutes every two hours and I wanted to [TS]

  leave myself the ability to say I don't [TS]

  know do a software update without having [TS]

  to worry about the respring happening [TS]

  every two seconds now as it turns out it [TS]

  was not every two seconds there was [TS]

  every like two or three minutes but I [TS]

  didn't know at the time and [TS]

  I knew I was about to go to sleep but [TS]

  like Marco said data loss like turning [TS]

  your phone off is still the preferable [TS]

  one like until the dust settles because [TS]

  if you had a sink in just now thinks the [TS]

  server-side version is newer than your [TS]

  than your day old data which is actually [TS]

  updated a second ago and it overwrites [TS]

  your locally edited information with [TS]

  stuff from the server like you haven't [TS]

  actually done anything but you've merely [TS]

  changed the date back so it's confused [TS]

  about what the latest stuff is and it [TS]

  brings that like you could have data [TS]

  loss whereas you know the respring thing [TS]

  or even just restarting there was not a [TS]

  mention of data loss in that and either [TS]

  way if you want to avoid it entirely [TS]

  turn your phone turn your phone off shut [TS]

  it down and wait to find out what the [TS]

  deal is that is that is the safest [TS]

  possible default [TS]

  I don't not saying like you know saying [TS]

  like say it's not the end of the world [TS]

  like it's you you made a call and you [TS]

  probably knew the risks better than most [TS]

  people this is mostly for other people [TS]

  who think that changing the date has no [TS]

  risks associated with it you emphasize [TS]

  that it has lots of risks and the [TS]

  fallout from it can ripple through for a [TS]

  long time and can be hard to distinguish [TS]

  problems caused by you changing the date [TS]

  and problems caused by the bug and [TS]

  problems that still linger after the bug [TS]

  is fixed and like I said I think that [TS]

  happened people who change the date had [TS]

  problems when they tried to apply the [TS]

  software update because they had changed [TS]

  the date see but the thing is though we [TS]

  didn't know or at least I didn't know at [TS]

  the time I made this decision what was [TS]

  gonna happen and and I don't think just [TS]

  turning off my phone in Waiting to the [TS]

  next day and trying on another device to [TS]

  see what the fix was that to me is not a [TS]

  valid option because what if for the [TS]

  sake of discussion it was a respring [TS]

  every two seconds what am i how am i [TS]

  going to accomplish anything at that [TS]

  point so my phone goes off and [TS]

  everything's working like I that I mean [TS]

  I turn it off Friday night everything's [TS]

  working Saturday morning I wake up and I [TS]

  turn it on immediately Rae Springs [TS]

  respring respring now what do I do [TS]

  Wow you don't turn on that you don't [TS]

  turn on the phone until you know there's [TS]

  a fix like or do you know what the [TS]

  decision is because like information [TS]

  came out like we don't know what we [TS]

  don't know now but presumably by the [TS]

  next day you wake up and you read here's [TS]

  what the deal is is there fixes they're [TS]

  not effects how bad is the bug what are [TS]

  the possible workarounds was like you [TS]

  know like waiting for more information [TS]

  to come out of century because more [TS]

  information didn't come out in about a [TS]

  day [TS]

  you learn the shape of this bug you [TS]

  learn what what it actually caused you [TS]

  learn multiple workarounds including the [TS]

  date thing and by then people were [TS]

  learning about the problems about having [TS]

  a date bug like just I'm just saying [TS]

  like patience right and you know know [TS]

  your phone's not gonna fix itself when [TS]

  it's turned off but it's also not gonna [TS]

  get worse [TS]

  so like presumably Apple will fix this [TS]

  Apple is not going to allow that if it's [TS]

  a important bug it's not like Apple's [TS]

  gonna be silent for six months about [TS]

  this bug and and no one could turn on [TS]

  their phones like you're not gonna be [TS]

  stuck with the turned off phone forever [TS]

  there will be a fix and the more series [TS]

  is the the the sooner the fix will be so [TS]

  I was like it's like that is the it's [TS]

  perhaps the most annoying option but [TS]

  it's also the most conservative and [TS]

  probably the safest and that's why I [TS]

  would rank it above changing the date [TS]

  because that is that's that's more a [TS]

  risky option it's a way like can I can [TS]

  take can I do something they'll expose [TS]

  me to a small amount of risk but let me [TS]

  not have to let me continue using my [TS]

  phone essentially yeah that's exactly [TS]

  the math I did and to me being able to [TS]

  still use my phone was was worth that [TS]

  risk and I'm not saying that I'm right [TS]

  I'm just saying I stand by the decision [TS]

  I made at the time but anyway as it [TS]

  turns out it was not as dire as I [TS]

  thought and to be honest John's approach [TS]

  in retrospect was the best answer which [TS]

  would have been to turn off your phone [TS]

  just wait it out see what happens and [TS]

  and as I think I said a moment ago it [TS]

  turns out that I guess something with [TS]

  local notifications was causing an error [TS]

  within springboard and springboard is [TS]

  you know the the home screen among other [TS]

  things and so springboard would crash [TS]

  every two or three minutes and this was [TS]

  only if you had an app that used a local [TS]

  notification and if you're not a iOS [TS]

  developer that may not mean a lot to you [TS]

  and so a local notification to a user [TS]

  looks identical in almost every scenario [TS]

  pretty actually every scenario I can [TS]

  think of to a push notification but the [TS]

  difference is rather than coming from an [TS]

  external tear device server [TS]

  it's coming from your phone itself so [TS]

  your phone is either saying maybe in a [TS]

  background process oh I would like to [TS]

  send a you know have a notification show [TS]

  up or perhaps in the case of like dude [TS]

  eue [TS]

  hey this person has asked for a reminder [TS]

  about this thing they want to do at you [TS]

  know nine o'clock in the evening they [TS]

  the person has asked to be reminded that [TS]

  ATP is being recorded and so they'll [TS]

  schedule our reminder locally on the [TS]

  device for nine o'clock on Wednesday [TS]

  evening [TS]

  and those were the things that were [TS]

  causing the problem and by the time I [TS]

  woke up there was actually a fix [TS]

  available and before we talked about [TS]

  what that fix was do we have any other [TS]

  commentary about the bug itself yeah [TS]

  Marcos commentary the best solution [TS]

  obviously is always luck which is what I [TS]

  had because I was way behind in Twitter [TS]

  so like I said I'm reading about the bug [TS]

  like hours and hours like I'm reading [TS]

  hours and hours old tweets so the whole [TS]

  rest of the world knows how it turns out [TS]

  already but I don't know I'm reading you [TS]

  know five hours ago tweets right in like [TS]

  look at this bug and I'm rolling through [TS]

  and and so I'm learning about it in real [TS]

  time on my phone all the while I'm like [TS]

  ant wait see how this turns out is it [TS]

  gonna turn out that my phone is affected [TS]

  by it I'm like well it's not rebooting [TS]

  to springboard constantly right you [TS]

  won't believe what happens next [TS]

  yeah right so basically I lucked out [TS]

  because I guess I don't have any [TS]

  applications that do local notifications [TS]

  so I got to read the story of my present [TS]

  you know backwards in time and that was [TS]

  fun and so yeah if you can rely on luck [TS]

  I highly recommend it my solution was to [TS]

  be a member of multiple slack groups [TS]

  where Casey was also a member because on [TS]

  the night of December 1st when this was [TS]

  all coming out like right before [TS]

  midnight that it was going to start [TS]

  happening [TS]

  Casey posted in every slack that he was [TS]

  in about this horrible thing I was read [TS]

  his slack things backwards in time to [TS]

  him like oh wow Casey really went all [TS]

  out warning the world about this again [TS]

  at the time like I didn't have a whole [TS]

  lot of facts but what I did know was [TS]

  that people in the future and by that I [TS]

  mean in like Australia New Zealand were [TS]

  we're having serious problems with their [TS]

  phones and so these are all like [TS]

  especially in the slacks you know I [TS]

  didn't really saw it sound the alarm too [TS]

  heavily on Twitter but for for my [TS]

  friends and slack I want you guys to be [TS]

  able to react and do something about [TS]

  this be that turn off your phone be it [TS]

  set your clocks whatever the case may be [TS]

  because the initial reports of course [TS]

  because it was a game of telephone where [TS]

  it was oh my god your phone is going to [TS]

  explode if you cross 11 12:15 on [TS]

  Saturday morning and so yes I was [TS]

  spamming everyone but I stand by that as [TS]

  well because I would much rather roles [TS]

  reversed I would much rather see Marco [TS]

  or John spam me in two or three [TS]

  different slacks and say oh god set your [TS]

  clock back [TS]

  and at least be or make a decision you [TS]

  know what I want to do rather than have [TS]

  Marco or John be like I'm sure it's fine [TS]

  well and I appreciate because that's how [TS]

  I heard about it because like so I you [TS]

  know I had like a night like I think I [TS]

  figured I was doing that I was like you [TS]

  know spending time with family so I [TS]

  wasn't browsing the internet I wasn't on [TS]

  Twitter that night and as I mentioned [TS]

  previously I don't have Twitter on my [TS]

  phone anymore so I don't browse to it on [TS]

  my phone so I was getting ready I was I [TS]

  was brushing my teeth and reading my [TS]

  phone because I'm a hopeless technology [TS]

  addicts and I read my phone while I [TS]

  brush my teeth [TS]

  yep you got to hold the toothbrush like [TS]

  straight down so if face ID will [TS]

  recognize you anyway house you can spend [TS]

  two minutes thinking no so anyway so I'm [TS]

  brush my teeth and I started seeing all [TS]

  these messages from you and I started [TS]

  thinking and and by that time I we we [TS]

  had known by that point this was this is [TS]

  like four minutes before midnight but we [TS]

  knew at that point that it had to do [TS]

  with recurring local notifications only [TS]

  so as I'm sitting there brushing my [TS]

  teeth I'm like oh my god wait okay you [TS]

  know it's a quick inventory of like [TS]

  household devices what's gonna be a [TS]

  problem like all right all my stuff's on [TS]

  the beta so I'm fine [TS]

  TIFF oh no her stuff is not on the beta [TS]

  I'm thinking like what's the fastest way [TS]

  I can solve this problem the next four [TS]

  minutes well let's have strongly agreed [TS]

  her phone in bed like you never read [TS]

  Instagram and like go to sleep and I [TS]

  rush I run into a bit out of her hand [TS]

  I read the bedroom with the toothbrush [TS]

  in my mouth uninstall your water [TS]

  reminder app sometime in the next four [TS]

  minutes like what why like just just do [TS]

  it like why because she could tell I was [TS]

  super freaked out about it she had no [TS]

  idea what the hell I was talking about [TS]

  because I realized that like I was [TS]

  thinking like thinking through the what [TS]

  she would have on her phone that would [TS]

  send recurring local notifications she [TS]

  had some kind of like drink more water [TS]

  reminding application so I knew that was [TS]

  a thing and and I like I you know [TS]

  finished with my teeth Reena ran back in [TS]

  and I had like two minutes left I was [TS]

  like I was like are there any other apps [TS]

  that you have on your phone that send [TS]

  you notifications that are not from a [TS]

  big company because the thing is like [TS]

  every other app from a big company is [TS]

  going to send remote push notifications [TS]

  they're never going to use local [TS]

  there oh they're only gonna ever use [TS]

  your road the only apps that really ever [TS]

  use little notifications at all our apps [TS]

  that really need to for some reason like [TS]

  you know reminding apps or alarm apps or [TS]

  to do apps or overcast for that's an [TS]

  implementation detail and so and I knew [TS]

  because it was recurring little [TS]

  notifications like that that cuts out a [TS]

  lot of of potential app types like very [TS]

  few apps use recurring little [TS]

  notifications so that's why they say wow [TS]

  this was a huge problem it was a huge [TS]

  problem only for people who use a [TS]

  relatively small subset of app types so [TS]

  this was actually not nearly as bad as [TS]

  it could have been I mean this was a [TS]

  problem with anybody who had any other [TS]

  any kind of notifications that would've [TS]

  been a much bigger problem than it was [TS]

  and it was pretty big but it could have [TS]

  been way worse so anyway so she got off [TS]

  okay after we're installing the reminder [TS]

  the water reminder app because I was [TS]

  thinking like can I install a beta [TS]

  informant nope did not the profile [TS]

  install it's not gonna work like yes so [TS]

  anyway how do Apple solve this problem [TS]

  KC so as it turns out and we we've kind [TS]

  of put these pieces not the three of us [TS]

  just in general the communities put [TS]

  these pieces together after the fact as [TS]

  it turns out iOS eleven point two is due [TS]

  to come out this week and and I have [TS]

  heard conflicting reports what day of [TS]

  the week it was supposed to come out and [TS]

  it doesn't really matter to be honest [TS]

  but it probably wasn't Friday night at [TS]

  midnight yeah exactly so you know eleven [TS]

  point two was in the hopper so to speak [TS]

  and it was imminently going to be [TS]

  released and so one would assume that it [TS]

  had been heavily Qaid it was pretty much [TS]

  ready to go and they were just waiting [TS]

  to make sure that their servers were you [TS]

  know up to snuff that that you know the [TS]

  the emergency response team was there [TS]

  and ready to act you know when they hit [TS]

  the Go button or whatever that it is [TS]

  that Apple does when they release new [TS]

  you know iOS point release and so if you [TS]

  think about it Apple had a couple of [TS]

  choices right thank you I'm kind of [TS]

  imagining like Johnny I've in a totally [TS]

  white room with a big white button on a [TS]

  perfectly formed wooden Apple Store [TS]

  table [TS]

  go it wouldn't even be labeled though I [TS]

  know he hates buttons it would just be a [TS]

  spot on the table yeah exactly that he [TS]

  would have to just apply some pressure [TS]

  to and it would be a forced click button [TS]

  he just gives it a meaningful look he [TS]

  doesn't but anyway the point is that [TS]

  that you know Apple all kidding aside it [TS]

  basically two choices they could either [TS]

  put together a fix just for this issue [TS]

  and try to like emergency cue a test it [TS]

  and try to put together an emergency [TS]

  patch and start shipping this patch or [TS]

  it was it was very quickly obvious of [TS]

  people on the beta we're not having this [TS]

  problem like Marco had said and so they [TS]

  could alternatively just say you know [TS]

  what the hell with it [TS]

  11.2 wasn't supposed to go out like [TS]

  Marco said at midnight Eastern on a [TS]

  Friday evening and gosh knows that if [TS]

  you've ever done anything with software [TS]

  you never want to deploy on a Friday [TS]

  night because that means you're really [TS]

  on a Friday at all because that means [TS]

  your weekend is all but assured Lee [TS]

  screwed but at this point they were [TS]

  screwed anyway so we why not and what [TS]

  they ended up doing was releasing 11.2 [TS]

  early which I think was the smart choice [TS]

  I mean it's easy for me to armchair [TS]

  quarterback but hey that's what we do it [TS]

  to me I think that was the best choice [TS]

  they could have made but it certainly [TS]

  had its own set of penalties in in no [TS]

  small part because say you know the [TS]

  release notes for example if I'm not [TS]

  mistaken mentioned Apple what does it [TS]

  Apple pay cash is that what it's called [TS]

  basically peer-to-peer Apple pay Apple [TS]

  venmo Apple venmo slash Apple Square [TS]

  cash well anyways so that was mentioned [TS]

  in the release notes and then all of us [TS]

  including me went to go find it and it [TS]

  wasn't there and we were like well what [TS]

  what's going on here and as it turns out [TS]

  there was a server side switch they [TS]

  needed to flip which I think they did [TS]

  Monday or it was early this week [TS]

  regardless but you know it was it was [TS]

  clear that this was not their intention [TS]

  but given the the hand they had in front [TS]

  of him I think this was the best [TS]

  decision they could have made I mean [TS]

  Marco do you would you say that you [TS]

  would do the same thing in their shoes I [TS]

  mean I don't really have enough [TS]

  information to know what their options [TS]

  really were here but probably I mean see [TS]

  it like I was using the 11.2 beta for a [TS]

  while and it was seemed fine to me but [TS]

  that's you know that's just one person [TS]

  if it was truly just like a couple of [TS]

  days from release then yeah that seems [TS]

  like a totally fine solution [TS]

  the problem is is embarrassing the the [TS]

  fact that they keep having problems with [TS]

  iPhones with related to date and time is [TS]

  concerning for things like you know [TS]

  alarms not going off in certain days for [TS]

  people and weird daylight savings bugs [TS]

  like it like I am definitely concerned [TS]

  the number of Prague's that iOS [TS]

  specifically has about local local date [TS]

  and time issues I thought we were done [TS]

  with those a few years ago and [TS]

  apparently we're not and that I think [TS]

  could use some investigation on Apple's [TS]

  part maybe maybe some auditing and some [TS]

  you know really making sure that code is [TS]

  solid because we shouldn't be having [TS]

  those kinds of bugs in 2017 [TS]

  you know Apple's better than that but as [TS]

  for the actual fix they did to fix this [TS]

  horribly embarrassing bug yeah it seems [TS]

  fine you know and I should also mention [TS]

  there was something going on with Mac OS [TS]

  as well and I never really got a clear [TS]

  read on what it was but like you guys [TS]

  heard that month thirteen is that about [TS]

  thirteen tell me again why I should [TS]

  update the High Sierra this one thirteen [TS]

  is it is it in bounds or is it out of [TS]

  bounds I forget you'll never know no but [TS]

  it wasn't even the month thirteen thing [TS]

  there's something to do with like [TS]

  spotlight I think or something like that [TS]

  I forget exactly what it was but there [TS]

  was a a not widespread but medium spread [TS]

  I don't even know if that's really a [TS]

  phrase but a medium spread bug that was [TS]

  affecting I believe High Sierras well [TS]

  and I can't remember what the hell it [TS]

  was but it was something to do with like [TS]

  your menu bar or spotlight or something [TS]

  like that I haven't seen that one I mean [TS]

  I'm afraid to look at my console for the [TS]

  month thirteen messages but still going [TS]

  on isn't it did ten point whatever point [TS]

  to fix it I would I looked at the [TS]

  release notes for briefly and I thought [TS]

  the very first item would be month [TS]

  thirteen is now no longer balanced we've [TS]

  added a new month thirteen to the [TS]

  calendar to fix this bug so far has to [TS]

  find like the the code in corefoundation [TS]

  that runs this assertion that is [TS]

  printing printing this message and like [TS]

  I know and then the grand scheme of all [TS]

  things we talked about with the you know [TS]

  springboard crashing repeatedly and you [TS]

  know the whatever the the problem was [TS]

  last week that I've already forgot [TS]

  like 1:13 being out of bounds but to be [TS]

  clear what we're talking about is a [TS]

  message that appears in the console on [TS]

  your Mac that repeatedly tells you that [TS]

  month 13 is out of bounds like multiple [TS]

  times per second like slowing down your [TS]

  Mac yeah it depends on where it's coming [TS]

  from what applications you have running [TS]

  but but it sounds like you know whatever [TS]

  your Mac still works you just got a [TS]

  bunch of noise in the console not a big [TS]

  deal but something about the sort of the [TS]

  you know the hygienic programmer in me [TS]

  finds that one all the more bothersome [TS]

  because it hasn't been fixed and sort of [TS]

  knowing that your computer is as [TS]

  emitting 10 or 20 of this identical log [TS]

  message per second every second every [TS]

  day that you're using it and Apple [TS]

  hasn't fixed it [TS]

  kind of like gnaws at the back of my [TS]

  mind like it is it doesn't it doesn't [TS]

  sit well with me regardless of the [TS]

  actual implications like no they use a [TS]

  database format and it coalesces [TS]

  duplicates and really it's just [TS]

  incrementing a counter and you're not [TS]

  actually storing duplicates in Bob a Bob [TS]

  like whatever the I don't care about the [TS]

  technical things like it's just you know [TS]

  and maybe also as a server-side para [TS]

  programmer noise and logs is bad noise [TS]

  and logs rent you from seeing signal [TS]

  stop spewing stuff to logs like it's the [TS]

  thing that makes you go around the [TS]

  company with the big virtual stick and [TS]

  about people I stopped stop filling the [TS]

  logs with crap if you're debugging fine [TS]

  debug and then turn off your log [TS]

  messages like keep the logs clean so I [TS]

  really hope that my 13 well no longer be [TS]

  out of bounds yeah that's that's the one [TS]

  big thing like that when they Channing [TS]

  introduces new login framework I think [TS]

  it was what last year or the year before [TS]

  when they introduced the new logging [TS]

  framework like they tad like oh it's so [TS]

  lightweight you can just leave you know [TS]

  incredibly verbose logging enable at the [TS]

  time and the system will handle it [TS]

  because like oh it's so efficient and [TS]

  like if no one's looking if no one's [TS]

  looking at the log it doesn't get [TS]

  written anywhere or something like that [TS]

  like there's all sorts of details that [TS]

  make it super efficient but like yeah [TS]

  I'm with you like like first of all [TS]

  looking at console or even the Xcode [TS]

  developer log is nearly useless since [TS]

  this change because the the apparent [TS]

  message with an apple when when they did [TS]

  this was now that we've made logging [TS]

  really cheap we can just dump diarrhea [TS]

  in the logs constantly from everything [TS]

  and it makes it [TS]

  really hard to actually look at the logs [TS]

  when you're having a problem and find [TS]

  anything useful at all or to run [TS]

  anything on a tethered device with Xcode [TS]

  and even if you do the whole like you [TS]

  know OS whatever iOS disabled mode [TS]

  disabled whatever that macro is you're [TS]

  supposed to set doesn't actually work it [TS]

  doesn't actually do want and it's just [TS]

  like the every part of iOS and Mac OS [TS]

  now just dumps so much crap to the log [TS]

  that it has made the log useless and not [TS]

  only for developers but also just for [TS]

  users like sometimes some form answer [TS]

  will be like hey go look at console dot [TS]

  app for the for something like this and [TS]

  that might tell us an answer [TS]

  III really strongly disagree with the [TS]

  Apple you know way of doing this now [TS]

  we're logging tons of unnecessary crap [TS]

  all the time is considered ok because [TS]

  they made logs really cheap yeah and and [TS]

  for the developer it's like I think is [TS]

  actually more reasonable to say oh just [TS]

  whitelist your application like use our [TS]

  filtering features to just see logs from [TS]

  your applications but for for users like [TS]

  console has historically been granted [TS]

  one of the last resorts but like when [TS]

  you're really desperate to see what the [TS]

  deal is you will probably find yourself [TS]

  launching console and saying maybe [TS]

  there's a messaging console that will [TS]

  let me know what the problem is and in [TS]

  that case you can't run any filters [TS]

  because you don't know what you want to [TS]

  filter you don't know what application [TS]

  or what part of the system you don't [TS]

  know what to filter for you can't [TS]

  whitelist you could selectively [TS]

  blacklist if you had eliminated sources [TS]

  of things but like sort of an overview [TS]

  of like hey is anything weird going on [TS]

  in my system that's why in server-side [TS]

  application is that the general best [TS]

  practices did not have noisy laws to [TS]

  have at least one log that it basically [TS]

  when everything's okay then the log is [TS]

  relatively quiet or there's only one [TS]

  kind of log message there we're like in [TS]

  some way where you could say look if [TS]

  anything other than this normal state [TS]

  appears here we have a problem and the [TS]

  normal state may be total quiet so which [TS]

  would mean that every single line to [TS]

  this log means there's a problem or the [TS]

  normal state could mean log messages of [TS]

  this type are fine but if you see any [TS]

  other kind of log message that that's an [TS]

  indicative of a problem that's what you [TS]

  need if you just have a big dumping [TS]

  ground no matter how good your filtering [TS]

  facilities are no matter how good you [TS]

  are keeping up your whitelist or [TS]

  blacklist of filtering it's very [TS]

  difficult to [TS]

  especially in the case of an emergency [TS]

  hat you have no place to look anymore [TS]

  where a human being can look at it [TS]

  inside it's not like normal to you it's [TS]

  like I don't know it's just a bunch of [TS]

  butts just a bunch of crap it's is it [TS]

  more crap or less crap than we were [TS]

  before and then finally like month [TS]

  thirteen of that bounce it represents [TS]

  some kind of error is that a programming [TS]

  error is it a data error whatever the [TS]

  source of the error is is an assertion [TS]

  that's failing and we all agree that [TS]

  there is no month thirteen in the [TS]

  calendar that we all use [TS]

  so something somewhere is wrong cuz [TS]

  someone should fix it so we don't have [TS]

  to see that message twenty times a [TS]

  second should this be a long message [TS]

  shouldn't this be an assertion shouldn't [TS]

  it crash like that's you know by the way [TS]

  also for the record I I have ten [TS]

  thirteen two on my laptop I just booted [TS]

  it up this looked it I'm still getting [TS]

  month 13 is out of bounds errors in the [TS]

  console so 10 13 2 does not fix this bug [TS]

  it also doesn't fix my font smoothing [TS]

  bug because the unchecking the use font [TS]

  smoothing when available box still is [TS]

  completely broken now [TS]

  what three months after the release of [TS]

  this OS to major point releases in if [TS]

  you if you have that box off everything [TS]

  is still completely broken [TS]

  so thanks Apple I why am I being pushed [TS]

  so hard to use this OS why is this being [TS]

  pushed forcibly through my App Store [TS]

  like well it promote it when it's ready [TS]

  it's not ready sorry that month 13 thing [TS]

  I don't think crashing is probably [TS]

  perfect is this of a date if it's a data [TS]

  driven error the data is bad the code is [TS]

  not the code is just telling you the [TS]

  video is bad and in the verbose way in [TS]

  the tradition that you just said of like [TS]

  oh if you find something wrong and [TS]

  you're not going to throw an exception [TS]

  just log it so you'll know about it [TS]

  but if it happens 20 times a second [TS]

  that's not great so I'm assuming this is [TS]

  some sort of data bug where some piece [TS]

  of data somewhere either from the [TS]

  network or on the system has a bad date [TS]

  in it or some bad date math added one to [TS]

  a 12 and got a 13 not a reason for the [TS]

  coding question to throw an exception in [TS]

  that case because it could be inside [TS]

  some important subsystem that doesn't [TS]

  want to like take down the whole system [TS]

  just because it got some bad data or [TS]

  whatever I'm just saying find where the [TS]

  bug is and fix it and obviously it is [TS]

  less urgent than everything else we've [TS]

  talked about but you know the [TS]

  irrationally [TS]

  like I said hygiene wise for me if it [TS]

  feels mentally urgent to me that this [TS]

  stop being on in the console so not a [TS]

  good week for Apple [TS]

  streak between the root bug in this bug [TS]

  it's just not not good but not actually [TS]

  I'm gonna say not you know so it's not [TS]

  good lots of bugs but not actually that [TS]

  bad either because in the grand scheme [TS]

  of things Apple like either through luck [TS]

  partially through luck but also [TS]

  partially through things working the [TS]

  ways they're supposed to Apple got fixes [TS]

  out in a timely manner the fix is more [TS]

  or less work plus or minus some minor [TS]

  fixes to the fixes the user base in [TS]

  general you know could have been it [TS]

  could have been much worse but it wasn't [TS]

  I mean the reasons marco said local [TS]

  notifications only the fact that the [TS]

  fixes came out pretty quickly I'm not [TS]

  sure if any of these things even made it [TS]

  out of the little tech nerd circle onto [TS]

  like the evening news or whatever into [TS]

  the wider world like was their front [TS]

  page New York Times story about [TS]

  everybody's iPhones bricking like that [TS]

  would be worse right so it was [TS]

  unfortunate and there was definitely [TS]

  some bad luck involved but there was [TS]

  also some good luck and I think Apple [TS]

  more or less functioned the way it's [TS]

  supposed to oh you've got an emergency [TS]

  and a bug all hands on deck let's fix [TS]

  the problem and they fixed it so you [TS]

  know you can get you can get pessimistic [TS]

  about the fact that there's all these [TS]

  bugs and we've talked about that at [TS]

  length but I'm I'm mostly satisfied that [TS]

  Apple handled the situation the way you [TS]

  would expect a professional good [TS]

  organization to handle the situation [TS]

  yeah yeah I mean they they're not like [TS]

  as angry as I am about how crappy [TS]

  they're treating hi Sierra right now and [TS]

  how it should not be it should not have [TS]

  been released period like this at this [TS]

  OS is still a beta and should not have [TS]

  been released and if they insisted on [TS]

  releasing it they should not be [TS]

  promoting it as hard as they are they [TS]

  should not be automatically pardoned [TS]

  people to install it as much as they are [TS]

  but all that being said they are making [TS]

  software bugs happen they are fixing [TS]

  them you know bugs happen on both [TS]

  platforms and alack this isn't just a [TS]

  Mac thing like iOS has problems Mac has [TS]

  problems as long as they fix the [TS]

  problems they're doing their job yeah [TS]

  but high sierra is not ready I mean I [TS]

  don't know why you say that it's I have [TS]

  it on every one of my machines and it's [TS]

  been fine it's just very upset about [TS]

  fonts moving apparently well and root [TS]

  and month 13 like this it's not that it [TS]

  has one problem I Sierra has lots of [TS]

  problems [TS]

  like I don't know I mean it depends on [TS]

  if you encounter the problems like if [TS]

  it's the example you said I was had all [TS]

  these trepidations about installing it [TS]

  right and then eventually I just did [TS]

  install it on my wife's computer and [TS]

  it's been fine I mean I'm sure it's [TS]

  console her consoles filling right now [TS]

  with Mon 13 being out of bounds but [TS]

  beyond that it's more or less works I'm [TS]

  it's hard for me to gauge like what is [TS]

  the stability of this thing across the [TS]

  entire user base some people have more [TS]

  problems with than others [TS]

  none of us have the Windows Server [TS]

  crashing bug which would certainly be [TS]

  something that we make us all screaming [TS]

  that we shouldn't have upgraded right [TS]

  because if your computer crashes every [TS]

  30 to 60 minutes like morning crashes [TS]

  kernel panics that's bad [TS]

  but I don't know I'd like I feel like [TS]

  Apple probably knows but the stability [TS]

  is like certainly it feels shaky er then [TS]

  we wish the Mac operating system ever [TS]

  would feel but early early releases of [TS]

  all major updates are like and certainly [TS]

  as we said in last show it doesn't live [TS]

  up to the billing as a stability release [TS]

  like as it was pitched but it's hard for [TS]

  me to gauge exactly how dire it is and I [TS]

  still remember the bad old days of 10 5 [TS]

  0 and even 10 6 zero and the zero [TS]

  releases back in the old days we're just [TS]

  we're just so much worse like like you [TS]

  may we'll make you computer unusable but [TS]

  mark goes right in that they didn't push [TS]

  though so they didn't automatically [TS]

  download those and throw things in your [TS]

  face to tell you to upgrade like no one [TS]

  even knew leopard was out until most of [TS]

  us had suffered through 10 5 0 10 5 one [TS]

  and 10 5 2 so it's a different world [TS]

  yeah tell us about your iPhone John we [TS]

  have time but I guess we do my iPhone is [TS]

  full what is that so wait what size did [TS]

  you get [TS]

  I didn't here's the thing when here we [TS]

  go we've all seen the Google ads where [TS]

  they they're like part of their [TS]

  advertising campaign is they show up [TS]

  that little dialogue that says like [TS]

  never see this again and it's a little [TS]

  iOS style it comes up and says like [TS]

  whatever says your iPhone is full or [TS]

  you're out of storage and remember the [TS]

  exact wording but that's that's been an [TS]

  ad campaigns for Android devices [TS]

  specifically for Google Android devices [TS]

  I think for a while now and I had never [TS]

  seen that and so when it appeared my [TS]

  first question it was how big is this [TS]

  phone because I'd forgotten I said [TS]

  iPhone 7 I bought it a long time ago I [TS]

  don't remember what size I got I was [TS]

  surprised to learn that I got [TS]

  1:28 which I normally don't do like I [TS]

  normally get the smaller size I'm like [TS]

  oh I don't have that much stuff on it [TS]

  and it's not a big deal I used to be [TS]

  that you know back back in the old days [TS]

  when the cameras on phones and iPod [TS]

  Touches really sucked the biggest thing [TS]

  on your phone or iPod Touch which I keep [TS]

  saying because that's what I had at the [TS]

  time [TS]

  where was your music and I was like oh [TS]

  I'm not gonna put my home music [TS]

  collection on there I'll just put my [TS]

  three star plus playlist on there which [TS]

  is like the songs that I like from my [TS]

  music collection essentially I'll just [TS]

  put them in there and that's not that [TS]

  big and that's the biggest thing that's [TS]

  gonna be on my phone and my music [TS]

  collection doesn't grow that much so I [TS]

  can go I need to do is get a phone or [TS]

  iPod Touch did fits my music collection [TS]

  I'll be fine [TS]

  but now the cameras on phones and maybe [TS]

  iPod Touches are super awesome [TS]

  and we all take lots of pictures with it [TS]

  and the pictures are big and I filled my [TS]

  128 gig phone with yes my music [TS]

  collection which doesn't get that much [TS]

  bigger [TS]

  very often but with photos I filled it [TS]

  with photos so you know you go to like [TS]

  the dialog box offices go to manage [TS]

  storage you look at what's taken up all [TS]

  this room and you're like guess what [TS]

  photos and then second place music and [TS]

  then third place everything else right [TS]

  so now I'm in this situation and I'm [TS]

  like I still has that game hey it's Mike [TS]

  yeah but if your phone fills up like you [TS]

  could fix that right it's pretty easy to [TS]

  fix and to its credit iOS has this [TS]

  pretty nice storage management screen [TS]

  where it will suggest a whole bunch of [TS]

  things you can do to get space back and [TS]

  it will tell you exactly how much space [TS]

  you'll get back in priority order the [TS]

  biggest things first you can do the [TS]

  thing where you let the operating system [TS]

  offload apps that you don't use and it [TS]

  tells you what the consequences of that [TS]

  are and it tells you how much space [TS]

  they'll stay you can get rid of [TS]

  attachments on messages and it tells you [TS]

  how much space you'll save you can [TS]

  delete old messages all over than a year [TS]

  and it tells you how much space that [TS]

  will save but all sorts of stuff like [TS]

  that I was really impressed with that [TS]

  see that screen which I'd never seen [TS]

  before my problem was I didn't want to [TS]

  do any of those things what I wanted to [TS]

  happen was iCloud forward library to say [TS]

  I am now going to eject photos that you [TS]

  haven't looked at in a long time and [TS]

  save only the tiniest of thumbnails for [TS]

  them and I'm gonna do that across your [TS]

  entire photo library shrinking it [TS]

  dramatically and I should have done that [TS]

  17 hours ago when I saw you were running [TS]

  out of room on your phone but I didn't [TS]

  instead I waited if you're trying to [TS]

  completely fill up and stopped you in [TS]

  the middle filling a video of your cute [TS]

  dog and popped up [TS]

  literally in the middle of filming a [TS]

  video of my cute dog I'm pop the [TS]

  dialogue that says your phone is full [TS]

  like well make it unfold like the whole [TS]

  panel pops in my storage on my phone [TS]

  get rid of photos that I haven't looked [TS]

  out like I have thousands of photos that [TS]

  I have never looked at on my phone get [TS]

  them off my phone that's the whole point [TS]

  of optimized storage right and I know [TS]

  people have had the same frustration on [TS]

  their Mac they're like they set their [TS]

  Mac top to my storage and the max disk [TS]

  fills up and they're like come on photos [TS]

  optimized like the whole point is [TS]

  they're stored in the cloud I don't need [TS]

  the full res ones here download them on [TS]

  demand get the full res ones off of my [TS]

  system so I didn't know what to do so [TS]

  I'm like I guess I'll try to leading [TS]

  some big apps I guess I'll find elite [TS]

  GarageBand that I never used cuz it's [TS]

  like six hundred Meg's or whatever you [TS]

  know like I deleted some stuff thinking [TS]

  maybe it's just a lag maybe you know i [TS]

  the the photos thing will just takes a [TS]

  little while to catch up and it'll flush [TS]

  stuff out but sure enough like a couple [TS]

  hours later phone's full again I deleted [TS]

  some more stuff next day phone photo [TS]

  yeah and like every time I try to take a [TS]

  picture it would happen literally when [TS]

  I'm taking pictures in videos just like [TS]

  on the ads because that's when like the [TS]

  thing would fill up or hit some [TS]

  threshold so I was like oh you know I [TS]

  have no choice I have to basically turn [TS]

  off iCloud photo library to convince it [TS]

  to delete these photos off my Mac [TS]

  because it's just not doing it so I [TS]

  turned off iCloud photo library it said [TS]

  do you want to keep these photos in your [TS]

  Mac if you want to trash them I said go [TS]

  ahead and trash them because they're all [TS]

  safe in the cloud they're all safe on my [TS]

  Mac like you know there are many million [TS]

  different places I don't need them to be [TS]

  on my phone I never look at them on my [TS]

  phone anyway and by the way remember the [TS]

  the photo is on my photo library is not [TS]

  the family photo library it's just my [TS]

  photos the family photo the library [TS]

  belongs to my wife so I'm only talking [TS]

  about a tiny subset of the vast amount [TS]

  of photos I have and I import all of my [TS]

  photos into the family photo library [TS]

  like Mac painfully manually there's no [TS]

  good way to do this so I wasn't really [TS]

  worried about the data right because [TS]

  it's not it's not the real photos and [TS]

  they're all NATO thing so I told it to [TS]

  delete my photo library and and I click [TS]

  delete and it went through and now it's [TS]

  like it's removing space and I'm seeing [TS]

  space come back I got many many gigs [TS]

  free I'm like I gotta solve this problem [TS]

  and then I found myself in the in the [TS]

  managed storage screen I guess I was [TS]

  just trying to look up at the progress [TS]

  or whatever and I noticed in the managed [TS]

  storage screen it said here's some [TS]

  things you can do to save space and one [TS]

  of the top items was you should enable I [TS]

  cut photo library cuz that'll save you [TS]

  fifty days I was like what icon photo [TS]

  library saved me 50 gigs is it thinking [TS]

  well I see on your phone you've got gigs [TS]

  and gigs of photos but if you enable I [TS]

  cut photo library I can upload all those [TS]

  to the cloud and then dump the full res [TS]

  versions leaving only the thumbnail [TS]

  saving you 50 gigs like that's the only [TS]

  way I could reason about that like [TS]

  that's how it was telling me you would [TS]

  think was save space and I would say [TS]

  look let me tell you I had it enabled [TS]

  and that's when my phone filled and [TS]

  didn't seem like it's a new space but [TS]

  anyway because because it offered that [TS]

  to me I said alright I'll take that bet [TS]

  phone you're beating me up about setting [TS]

  my clock back these photos are all safe [TS]

  and sound somewhere else like this is [TS]

  not the real family photo library like [TS]

  this is just me versus the phone to see [TS]

  like you know if you're gonna tell me [TS]

  that I'm gonna say 50 geeks but I'm [TS]

  unable it [TS]

  and so I enabled it and I think what I [TS]

  did was I enable it so quickly after I [TS]

  had disabled that it hadn't deleted all [TS]

  the photos on my phone it just deleted [TS]

  many many gigs of them and and I rien [TS]

  abled it and it went through this thing [TS]

  that said you know I'm uploading photos [TS]

  and I was like oh no is it is it [TS]

  uploading like duplicates of these [TS]

  photos Shirley knows that that has [TS]

  already uploaded all these like and it [TS]

  did it figured it out it said it's like [TS]

  I gotta upload like 9,000 photos and it [TS]

  was like up I'm all done because you [TS]

  know all those tourists were already [TS]

  uploaded so it didn't actually reload [TS]

  them no duplicates and then it just sat [TS]

  there in a steady state so I'm like well [TS]

  this this technique worked disabled I [TS]

  got a photo library tell it to delete [