The Accidental Tech Podcast

248: Chili Cookoff


  check it off it's like one of those [TS]

  confusing titles where people will [TS]

  listen to the whole episode and then [TS]

  glance back at the title before I like [TS]

  it it's always I'm like what was that [TS]

  about anything right it's a great time I [TS]

  didn't love this title when you first [TS]

  said it but you're the two of you are [TS]

  convincing me that there's this thing's [TS]

  got legs just like my icon there's death [TS]

  to that title Depp the flavor and spice [TS]

  it's just a good practice that's not but [TS]

  not a lot of levels of depth mapping [TS]

  yourself so as always we start with [TS]

  follow up and listen to Richard Buxton [TS]

  wrote in to say that traits people [TS]

  generally like face ID and this was [TS]

  something I hadn't considered and I and [TS]

  I really liked this email Richard wrote [TS]

  I wanted to provide some feedback on the [TS]

  face ID concept and perhaps shed light [TS]

  on an entirely different group of phone [TS]

  users I'm a trades person or more [TS]

  specifically an electrician and touch ID [TS]

  sucks as a consequence of manual work [TS]

  with rough materials all day long my [TS]

  fingertips constantly gets scratched and [TS]

  worn the result is that touch ID on [TS]

  either a six or seven plus constantly [TS]

  fails I have perhaps a ten percent [TS]

  success rate and I am therefore forced [TS]

  to type my password in a lot and thus [TS]

  Richard rate you know had written that [TS]

  he was he is really really really [TS]

  excited about face ID and that makes [TS]

  perfect sense but it was something I [TS]

  hadn't really considered you know the [TS]

  obvious thought of like oh people who [TS]

  don't have I don't know hands or perhaps [TS]

  you know don't have fingers that are [TS]

  dexterous enough to be placed on a [TS]

  little fingerprint sensor that all you [TS]

  know is semi obvious but I didn't even [TS]

  think of somebody that has potentially [TS]

  ten working digits but but they're [TS]

  packed to smithereens because of the [TS]

  line of work that they're in so I [TS]

  thought that was a release we'll follow [TS]

  up yeah also to think about people who [TS]

  have weather which is the first thing [TS]

  that comes to my mind when thinking [TS]

  about face ID is the large portion of [TS]

  the year that many people don't want to [TS]

  take their hands out of their gloves or [TS]

  mittens or whatever to use their phone [TS]

  that's why they have all the special [TS]

  gloves with the touch sensors on them [TS]

  but then sometimes they only work for a [TS]

  short period of time or sometimes it can [TS]

  be too cold for them to even work and to [TS]

  not have to deal with that to be able to [TS]

  basically say if I got gloves that are [TS]

  dexterous enough to handle my phone I [TS]

  don't have to worry that [TS]

  the phone can't touch my fingerprints in [TS]

  any way even if my fingerprints are [TS]

  pristine I think it was pointed in my [TS]

  face and they will unlock and then of [TS]

  course you still have the problem of how [TS]

  do you touch the screen but I think [TS]

  that's you know again that's where those [TS]

  gloves come in where at least you can do [TS]

  touch and scroll things but as far as [TS]

  I'm aware there are no gloves that [TS]

  transfer your fingerprint through the [TS]

  through their warmth to the touch ID [TS]

  sensor these biological systems you kind [TS]

  of have to think like you know how many [TS]

  people does this exclude and you know [TS]

  and for the most part like we you know [TS]

  that our mainstream tech commentators [TS]

  and and media reviewers and everything [TS]

  we usually are not very aware of the [TS]

  kinds of people or groups or situations [TS]

  that this that anything you know could [TS]

  rule out in a lot of edge cases and like [TS]

  it's it's nightly touch ID provides a [TS]

  fairly simple interaction but if you for [TS]

  some reason can't do that very often [TS]

  that's gonna be a major problem there's [TS]

  no real out for you face idea I think is [TS]

  a little bit more flexible like they [TS]

  they had the thing you know first of all [TS]

  I think more people can probably show [TS]

  their face and then but not everybody of [TS]

  course but you know but more people can [TS]

  I think then can take out their finger [TS]

  all the time and there's the wonderful [TS]

  because accessibility option where you [TS]

  can turn off the looking at it attention [TS]

  detection so in case people you know [TS]

  can't use their eyes that way then you [TS]

  know they don't have to be directly [TS]

  looking at the screen for it to unlock [TS]

  you know so like there's there's that [TS]

  kind of accommodation and you're never [TS]

  going to find a system with this that [TS]

  accommodates everybody but it does seem [TS]

  like face ID probably accommodates more [TS]

  situations than touch ID did one of you [TS]

  like to tell me about why the [TS]

  multitasking gesture feels different on [TS]

  springboard this is me that I'm the one [TS]

  who last week described how I I couldn't [TS]

  bring up the multitasking switcher [TS]

  reliably from springboard versus doing [TS]

  it from an in applications so much so [TS]

  that I initially thought it wasn't even [TS]

  possible to bring up the Moses and [TS]

  Twitter from springboard and I pretty [TS]

  quickly figured out why after the show [TS]

  and back and looked at it more closely [TS]

  and it has to do with something that we [TS]

  talked about which is animations on when [TS]

  you do the multitasking gesture on us [TS]

  that contains an application as you [TS]

  start to do the swipe up thing whether [TS]

  you're gonna like take a hard ride and [TS]

  go multitasking or go up in an angle and [TS]

  go to multitasking or go straighter up [TS]

  and go to the homescreen no matter what [TS]

  one of those things you're doing as [TS]

  you're doing the gesture the application [TS]

  that was in the foreground starts to [TS]

  like shrink and move upward like it [TS]

  doesn't follow your finger exactly but [TS]

  it reacts to what your finger is doing [TS]

  in a reasonably linear way I'm swiping [TS]

  up at the far farther up I go the more [TS]

  shrinky the front thing gets and you [TS]

  know if I flick to the right I see the [TS]

  little mostly fasten thing or whatever [TS]

  um if you do it on springboard the [TS]

  screen reacts to you're scrolling upward [TS]

  from the bottom like it doesn't just sit [TS]

  there and not move at all it does sort [TS]

  of start to shrink and move a little bit [TS]

  but then it stops shrinking and moving [TS]

  and it's kind of inert for a period of [TS]

  time if you successfully complete the [TS]

  gesture the multitasking switcher [TS]

  appears if you don't successfully [TS]

  complete it it snaps back to where it [TS]

  was and that discontinuity like the fact [TS]

  that there was a different relationship [TS]

  between what my finger was doing what [TS]

  was on the screen was apparently enough [TS]

  to make me think it wasn't possible [TS]

  initially and then fail at it away [TS]

  higher percentage of the time then on [TS]

  other screens so what I've been trying [TS]

  to do is break that connection which is [TS]

  hard for me because I'm a visual person [TS]

  and I you know like that when things are [TS]

  connected in that way it makes sense to [TS]

  me when they're not connected it feels [TS]

  like things are broken but to say look [TS]

  the screen is not gonna react the same [TS]

  way in springboard just do the gesture [TS]

  right just do your little J turn do your [TS]

  little angle swipe do whatever it is you [TS]

  have to do to make N and have faith that [TS]

  even though the screen stops reaction to [TS]

  your sliding finger just keep sliding it [TS]

  just just keep sliding swipe me just [TS]

  keep swiping and have some confidence [TS]

  now I still am less successful and it [TS]

  could be that I need some kind of [TS]

  feedback to match up with my like yeah [TS]

  you know yeah your thumbs making a right [TS]

  turn yeah it's gonna happen for you see [TS]

  how the little thing is moving to the [TS]

  right a little bit like I don't know you [TS]

  know what the disconnect is there but I [TS]

  did [TS]

  that I'm not the only one a lot of [TS]

  people did tweet at me and tell me they [TS]

  some people also thought it wasn't [TS]

  possible from springboard until they [TS]

  heard the program some people knew it [TS]

  was possible but have much more [TS]

  difficulty doing it and then of course [TS]

  there are all the people who are the [TS]

  equivalent of taptic like wizards like I [TS]

  had no problem at a single time I just [TS]

  exact 45-degree line with my thumb it [TS]

  happens every single time so whatever [TS]

  everyone has difficult in ass [TS]

  accessibility issue everyone has [TS]

  different difficult different abilities [TS]

  to swipe but I think the difficulty on [TS]

  spring work actually is explicable by [TS]

  the by the difference in animation [TS]

  because that is the only difference as [TS]

  far as I can tell like it's still like [TS]

  the same gesture works in both places [TS]

  the only difference is what happens on [TS]

  your screen and if you have an [TS]

  expectation of something that's going to [TS]

  happen on your screen that it doesn't it [TS]

  can cause you to to pause to rethink to [TS]

  move your finger differently to stop [TS]

  moving and all those things will mess up [TS]

  your gesture so I'll keep practicing on [TS]

  my wife's thumb in the meantime Apple [TS]

  should consider doing something about [TS]

  that J because I don't see any reason [TS]

  why springboard can't have the same [TS]

  animation my goal in the multitasking [TS]

  obviously you're never going to go from [TS]

  springboard to springboard so the only [TS]

  animation that has to initiate is the [TS]

  one that brings to the multitasking [TS]

  switcher and if you bail on the gesture [TS]

  yeah it'll snap back to where it's plus [TS]

  but I don't see why it doesn't do [TS]

  doesn't follow your thumb the full way [TS]

  through the gesture to give you the [TS]

  confidence to know that it's gonna [TS]

  happen for you the multitasking screen [TS]

  is gonna come up yeah it is weird I've [TS]

  noticed that as well that it's super [TS]

  peculiar speaking of things that I think [TS]

  you said John last episode I got this [TS]

  phone for $50 and it's fine tell me more [TS]

  about that's still funny that was just [TS]

  me describing my sister getting her [TS]

  phone and how I wasn't able to answer [TS]

  get an iPhone and you know it occurred [TS]

  to me that would be good slogan for [TS]

  Android and some people took that and [TS]

  ran with it [TS]

  but I did want to offer some [TS]

  clarification because some people [TS]

  thought it was like they were putting [TS]

  down Android that is you know the [TS]

  pejorative like oh this $50 phone bought [TS]

  a piece of crap right my main point was [TS]

  the opposite that the Android phone you [TS]

  can can you can get for $50 is fine [TS]

  right and if you're not as I said a [TS]

  phone enthusiast or like an Apple [TS]

  enthusiast or a gadget head or someone [TS]

  who appreciates the ways in which iOS [TS]

  differs from Android the supposed [TS]

  superiority of iOS or Apple hardware [TS]

  anything like that does not even come [TS]

  close to overcoming the price difference [TS]

  right so I got this one $40 and it's [TS]

  fine sounds like you know like Apple [TS]

  people you end up but really if Apple's [TS]

  problem in that if the $50 phone is fine [TS]

  Apple has a problem there and the second [TS]

  aspect is people say well I don't I do [TS]

  appreciate those differences I just you [TS]

  know I do like high-tech gadgets I just [TS]

  don't like iOS or I like Android phones [TS]

  better or you know whatever those are [TS]

  the people who are shopping for the [TS]

  high-end fancy Android phones and those [TS]

  people are insulted that we thought they [TS]

  said if you're a gadget nerd obviously [TS]

  you're gonna like iOS and if you're nan [TS]

  gadget nerd then Android is fine for you [TS]

  and that wasn't my intention I can [TS]

  understand where you got that impression [TS]

  but yeah of course if you don't like iOS [TS]

  at all but also like high-tech fancy [TS]

  phones yeah you're also gonna shop for [TS]

  an Android but you're not gonna pay $50 [TS]

  for it is what I'm getting out there [TS]

  like you're gonna actually pay the big [TS]

  money for the fanciest highest and [TS]

  Android phone and that phone is not [TS]

  going to cost you $50 so you are [TS]

  excluded from this guy I got this one [TS]

  for the LSM it's fine the only thing I [TS]

  can say for those people is you do have [TS]

  to make do with a slower CPU sorry about [TS]

  that [TS]

  but that if you like Android and the [TS]

  control it offers and all the various [TS]

  features that Andros has that that iOS [TS]

  doesn't like a configurable set of [TS]

  widgets on your lockscreen and all that [TS]

  good stuff [TS]

  then yeah go for it but yeah my main [TS]

  point is I got this one $50 and it's [TS]

  fine sounds insulting if you're an Apple [TS]

  snob but really it constitutes a semi [TS]

  real problem for Apple because the fifty [TS]

  dollar phone is fine why the hell are we [TS]

  all paying $1200 for an iPhone 10 yep [TS]

  Duncan Stevenson price writes in [TS]

  regarding Apple Care Plus did you guys [TS]

  know that you can get a pro-rata refund [TS]

  on the plan if you change your iPhone [TS]

  after one year this changes the math [TS]

  this individual wrote maths that's [TS]

  incorrect [TS]

  this changes the math a little though [TS]

  admittedly not the overall thrust of [TS]

  your argument against buying it [TS]

  I had no idea that that was possible and [TS]

  and I don't recall how they said that [TS]

  you go about doing that because I think [TS]

  they did include it in their email but [TS]

  apparently there's a way to get a bit of [TS]

  a refund on your Apple Care Plus I don't [TS]

  get a phone every year so I didn't know [TS]

  about this at all but - you - who do get [TS]

  a phone every you should try that if you [TS]

  know Casey you bought the Apple care [TS]

  this time next time you go to get a [TS]

  phone say Duncan told you you're [TS]

  supposed to get some of the money back [TS]

  for Apple care and see what they do well [TS]

  I did not get AppleCare this time but I [TS]

  know you did no no no I got a while I [TS]

  did get AppleCare it's a $50 leather [TS]

  case remind me of this when I still [TS]

  shadow my phone that's right Stephen [TS]

  Harrison writes you mentioned that it is [TS]

  not possible to remove individual keys [TS]

  on the new keyboards well I just had a [TS]

  faulty B key on my macbook pro and the [TS]

  first thing they did the Genius Bar was [TS]

  take it out back that sounds awkward and [TS]

  removed the offending geek app to check [TS]

  for dust etc underneath from what I [TS]

  could gather they have a special device [TS]

  or machine for removing keys so it's not [TS]

  something one could do at home but it's [TS]

  possible in the end I still had a new [TS]

  top case with the accompanying touch pad [TS]

  our trackpad touch bar and battery etc [TS]

  there's been a lot of talk about whether [TS]

  or not you can remove individual keys in [TS]

  a non-destructive way and Stephen [TS]

  certainly thinks that it's possible [TS]

  although he ended up going the destroy [TS]

  they ended up going the destructive [TS]

  route in his behalf anyway so what we [TS]

  heard from geniuses in a past feedback [TS]

  is yeah of course you can get the key [TS]

  caps off right but that the process of [TS]

  removing them has such a high chance of [TS]

  bending or breaking one of the very very [TS]

  tiny very delicate plastic pins that [TS]

  holds these things together that the [TS]

  geniuses you wrote to us that basically [TS]

  I've never seen anyone pull it off [TS]

  successfully or the success rate is so [TS]

  low that it's not even worth trying so I [TS]

  don't doubt that they still try to do it [TS]

  but I wonder like why did this person [TS]

  get a new keyboard possibly because they [TS]

  got the key cap off and they thought [TS]

  they had done it successfully and they [TS]

  tried to put it back on and realize [TS]

  they'd accidentally bent one of the [TS]

  little tiny pins and it's like well [TS]

  that's it game over because there's no [TS]

  repairing a bent pin there's no [TS]

  repairing a broken pen if you don't get [TS]

  it off cleanly and get it back on [TS]

  cleanly then its whole new top case with [TS]

  just one of the many reasons that this [TS]

  keyboard is not friendly to repair [TS]

  yeah it seems like the the rate at which [TS]

  they're able to properly rescue it with [TS]

  some kind of replacement in store or [TS]

  some kind of like you know not replacing [TS]

  the entire top case the the the number [TS]

  of problems that are solved that way [TS]

  seems significantly smaller than the [TS]

  number that require a whole top case [TS]

  replacement anyway so what however the [TS]

  multiple parts inside the keys work out [TS]

  however the serviceability works out the [TS]

  reality is this is a incredibly service [TS]

  unfriendly problem I also you know on [TS]

  this topic there's been some number of [TS]

  good discussions about this on connected [TS]

  with Stephen Hackett and because he was [TS]

  a genius back in the day and he you know [TS]

  he he mentioned that like the idea of [TS]

  one bad key requiring the replacement of [TS]

  the entire top case of the computer and [TS]

  the entire top case being a very [TS]

  expensive repair because the entire [TS]

  computer is basically built under it so [TS]

  you have to like basically take the [TS]

  entire computer apart in order to [TS]

  replace that and put it back together he [TS]

  mentioned that this is actually not new [TS]

  to this current generation of MacBook [TS]

  Pros this started with the unibody back [TS]

  what was at 2011 that the unibody [TS]

  started 2010 something like that and [TS]

  ever since the unibody MacBook Pros [TS]

  you've had to replace the entire top [TS]

  case and it's been a lot of work if the [TS]

  keyboard breaks in certain ways the main [TS]

  difference with the new ones is that not [TS]

  only are the keys more likely to break [TS]

  in a way that requires top case [TS]

  replacement into the older keys you had [TS]

  a better chance of servicing individual [TS]

  key caps but also as we know the new [TS]

  ones have such an incredibly high key [TS]

  failure rate with whatever-it-is specks [TS]

  of dust things bending whatever the [TS]

  problem ends up being with these we know [TS]

  that they are failing way more often [TS]

  than they used to so the the whole top [TS]

  case being required thing is not new but [TS]

  the rate of failure and how severe the [TS]

  failures are now does seem very new and [TS]

  even the old keyboards with the scissor [TS]

  switches I've manually tried to repair [TS]

  many of those and they have a lesser [TS]

  version of the same problem removing the [TS]

  key caps from an older or scissor switch [TS]

  keyboard is possible but there is some [TS]

  fairly high chance that you will bend or [TS]

  break one of the little pin [TS]

  I think I think mostly I bent them I [TS]

  don't think know if I ever really broke [TS]

  one off but I definitely bent them in my [TS]

  attempts to repair things both on the [TS]

  the laptop keyboards and on these same [TS]

  scissors which is that are in the like [TS]

  extended aluminum keyboard and stuff [TS]

  it's pretty easy to mangle the tiny semi [TS]

  clear pieces of plastic in there because [TS]

  it's basically like a bunch of little [TS]

  plastic Hindi mechanisms with these [TS]

  little little feet little legs little [TS]

  cylindrical sticks that snap into these [TS]

  little C shaped clamps on the key cap or [TS]

  at least with a scissors it was I [TS]

  imagine it's similar with the with the [TS]

  new butterfly ones and that's just [TS]

  that's just a really difficult thing to [TS]

  to work with you kind of have to do a [TS]

  lot of them blind where you just have to [TS]

  get the pieces of line correctly put the [TS]

  cap on and then just press down and hope [TS]

  everything snaps in all at once it's not [TS]

  not particularly friendly to repair it [TS]

  never hasn't been it just seems like [TS]

  these new ones are even smaller and the [TS]

  little leggy things are even finer you [TS]

  can find some good like sort of macro [TS]

  photography of it online if you search [TS]

  but it's not something that I would want [TS]

  to repair and I'm sure there are lots of [TS]

  sort of gung-ho geniuses who are like [TS]

  I'm gonna do it this is gonna be the [TS]

  time I'm gonna get the key cap off and I [TS]

  never get it back on and everything's [TS]

  gonna work until the next speck of dust [TS]

  but you know they know that if they if [TS]

  they blow it [TS]

  475 dollars or whatever it is yeah [TS]

  that's rough I see the notes here about [TS]

  the OLED display but I have a feeling [TS]

  that somebody's trying to tell a story [TS]

  with them so rather than flub my way [TS]

  through it and whoever I'm assuming this [TS]

  is John do you want to talk about this I [TS]

  think we touched on this in many past [TS]

  shows in terms of burn in on the old [TS]

  LEDs and everything and things Apple [TS]

  might be doing that acknowledge the fact [TS]

  that has burned them whether it be the [TS]

  the 30-second timeout on the thing which [TS]

  by the way some people say is not new [TS]

  and just a bug or happened with non [TS]

  iPhone 10 so who knows that's still [TS]

  mysterious but this the the burnin of [TS]

  the OLED is communicated in various [TS]

  Apple tech notes it's also communicated [TS]

  in iOS itself if you look at the auto [TS]

  brightness setting on a non iPhone 10 it [TS]

  says auto brightness on and often [TS]

  there's a little descriptive text [TS]

  underneath it says turning off auto [TS]

  brightness way affect the battery life [TS]

  right so that was the old message like [TS]

  hey if you don't let the phone sense how [TS]

  much life there is in the room and doom [TS]

  itself if you just set it keep a [TS]

  brightness and set it that way all the [TS]

  time even in the pitch dark room it may [TS]

  affect battery life we're just [TS]

  may lessen your battery life right the [TS]

  new thing if you have an iPhone 10 on [TS]

  that very same switch says turning off [TS]

  auto brightness may affect battery life [TS]

  and long-term display performance so [TS]

  they added some words to that and what [TS]

  they mean by long-term display [TS]

  performance is that if you turn off auto [TS]

  brightness crank it to max brightness [TS]

  and don't let it dim itself even in a [TS]

  dark room you're probably gonna get [TS]

  burnin sooner than if you didn't do that [TS]

  because one of the tools like you know [TS]

  if you read the Apple Doc's they in [TS]

  typical sort of marketing PR speak they [TS]

  say the Apple display and iPhone 10 and [TS]

  whatever blah blah blah have been [TS]

  engineered to reduce burnin and there [TS]

  are many aspects to being engineered to [TS]

  reduce burnin one of those aspects is [TS]

  our software will try to prevent burnin [TS]

  by trying to be nice to your screen will [TS]

  adjust the brightness down so it's not a [TS]

  max brightness in a dark room well dim [TS]

  as soon as we possibly can [TS]

  we'll try to pay attention to whether [TS]

  you're looking at the screen so we know [TS]

  when we can dim and also the way the [TS]

  screen is built to be resistant to burn [TS]

  and whatever that involves so it's it's [TS]

  the whole package it's not just [TS]

  hardware's not just software it's [TS]

  everything and part of that is you [TS]

  taking you know some responsibility in [TS]

  your own hands if you tweak the settings [TS]

  if you if you put the brightness to max [TS]

  turn off auto brightness and probably [TS]

  also turn off true tone and put your [TS]

  sleep your display sleep time around 5 [TS]

  minutes you are probably gonna get burn [TS]

  in sooner and more severely than someone [TS]

  who leaves it in the default setting so [TS]

  welcome to my world of plasma television [TS]

  ownership yeah this is probably my only [TS]

  long-term concern about the iPhone 10 [TS]

  and using all that screens in general on [TS]

  the iPhone which you know this is not [TS]

  gonna be the first phone to do this I [TS]

  mean sorry the only phone to do this [TS]

  because we really don't know what they [TS]

  mean by critical word here long term if [TS]

  you actually use your phone with the [TS]

  screen on a lot because if you're using [TS]

  it the screen is going to be on a lot [TS]

  and many parts of iOS are always in the [TS]

  same place like status bar items and the [TS]

  home indicator and stuff when they say [TS]

  long term sure to refer to OLED problems [TS]

  well how long what are we talking here [TS]

  are we talking a few months are we [TS]

  talking a year a few years you know cuz [TS]

  that like I feel like whatever the [TS]

  number actually is there makes a great [TS]

  deal of difference on to what we should [TS]

  do and how big those problems are you [TS]

  know if it if it turns out that OLED [TS]

  screened iPhones are going to have like [TS]

  really annoying screen flaws eight [TS]

  months into ownership that's gonna be a [TS]

  really big problem even if they're gonna [TS]

  have really annoying flaws after two [TS]

  years of ownership that's gonna really [TS]

  impact the used market so either way [TS]

  like if this is at all like likely to [TS]

  have serious display flaws during the [TS]

  useful lifetime of the product that's [TS]

  gonna be a big problem down the road and [TS]

  I really hope it's not that bad I think [TS]

  it will probably be okay just because [TS]

  Apple seemed so aware of this issue and [TS]

  Apple held off on OS for such a long [TS]

  time and also the whole rest of the [TS]

  industry meaning Android is that all it [TS]

  screens for so long that I feel like [TS]

  it's it's not a it shouldn't be a [TS]

  mystery Apple is not the first you know [TS]

  companies putting all it in its phone so [TS]

  we should have data from all the many [TS]

  many years of OLED Android phones of [TS]

  what their performance characteristics [TS]

  are like and how bad burnin is and then [TS]

  Apple of course waiting until it gets [TS]

  just the right display hopefully has one [TS]

  that is better in all ways that they can [TS]

  make it better including burnin so my [TS]

  advice to people is to not be as [TS]

  obsessed about this as I am with my [TS]

  closet Intellivision and just you know [TS]

  use sensible settings maybe just take [TS]

  the defaults if you don't know what [TS]

  sensible settings are leave [TS]

  auto-brightness on don't crank your [TS]

  brightness to max if you can help it [TS]

  let your display go to sleep but in [TS]

  general just use your phone because I my [TS]

  prediction is that image retention will [TS]

  not be a problem on the average lights [TS]

  lifetime of a newly bought iPhone 10 [TS]

  because I would imagine the average [TS]

  lifetime a newly bought iPhone 10 is [TS]

  probably like two points something years [TS]

  right because if you buy the fancy [TS]

  iPhone 10 probably you're gonna want to [TS]

  buy a new one or within at least two [TS]

  years and maybe there's some long-tailed [TS]

  people who try to keep them for much [TS]

  longer right because it's an expensive [TS]

  phone it may be more of a problem when [TS]

  OLED travels down the line to the [TS]

  cheaper phones that tend to be kept [TS]

  longer and Marco's right about the used [TS]

  market but you know I don't know how [TS]

  much people buy their phones [TS]

  contingent on the idea of being able to [TS]

  sell them for you haven't have them [TS]

  having high resale value I'm not sure [TS]

  how common that is versus trade-ins [TS]

  which that's the good thing about trade [TS]

  ins is you're not getting a big great [TS]

  deal on trade ins anyway but I don't [TS]

  think Apple's gonna give you guff about [TS]

  trading in your phone for their like [TS]

  update program if you've got image [TS]

  retention because like look it's your [TS]

  damn phone Apple that's not my fault it [TS]

  is every time you take my phone and give [TS]

  me a pittance for it so I'm I'm not that [TS]

  concerned also when I look at my plasma [TS]

  television that is how I don't know how [TS]

  old it is but it's longer there's older [TS]

  than two years old and plasmas are just [TS]

  notorious for image retention I don't [TS]

  know what the oled characteristics of [TS]

  remnant retention are but i'm pretty [TS]

  convinced that the characteristics are [TS]

  plasma or the are that if you are [TS]

  patient enough you could your destiny [TS]

  HUD will go away in a year right I don't [TS]

  know if that helps the resale market or [TS]

  makes people feel better but you know [TS]

  I'm actually kind of optimistic about [TS]

  this having been in the burnin wars for [TS]

  many many years and finally having seen [TS]

  so many people in real life you use [TS]

  absolutely shattered cell phones like [TS]

  smartphones just completely destroyed [TS]

  like not just little spiderweb or a [TS]

  crack here or there but like whole giant [TS]

  glass chips missing circuit boards [TS]

  exposed like one step short of sparks [TS]

  flying from the phone as they use it I [TS]

  have a hard time believing that the [TS]

  average person will be thwarted from [TS]

  using their phone because it has image [TS]

  retention honey because that's not even [TS]

  a physical defect like tactile disa and [TS]

  defect like they can feel that's just [TS]

  like the home indicator always looking [TS]

  like it's on the screen but whatever so [TS]

  I think it'll be okay but if you're a [TS]

  super paranoid nerd about it you know [TS]

  take a look at your phone in a year or [TS]

  two and I don't know Marco will put a [TS]

  free app on the App Store that puts a [TS]

  checkerboard pattern on your screen that [TS]

  turns it into grey yeah I really hope [TS]

  that this is a non-issue but like it my [TS]

  concern is you know so they set it at [TS]

  the 30 second by default screens sleep [TS]

  which I hate and thank God I turned it [TS]

  off my concern is if I since I raised [TS]

  that to five minutes if my if I get bad [TS]

  image retention on my screen in six [TS]

  months are they [TS]

  you slash all the crazy Apple defenders [TS]

  on Twitter going to say well I was doing [TS]

  it wrong I was using this option that I [TS]

  shouldn't have been using like is that [TS]

  gonna be my fault [TS]

  because I changed this annoying setting [TS]

  back to where it was on all LCD phones [TS]

  before that it said may affect battery [TS]

  life and long-term display performance [TS]

  Marco can't you read you know it does [TS]

  say that and yeah that will contribute [TS]

  to it but like that I don't think [TS]

  there's any consequences like they're [TS]

  not going to say you know you like if [TS]

  you bring it in with image retention I'm [TS]

  not sure what their their deal with it [TS]

  but same thing with the iMac like if you [TS]

  just let your iMac screen dim more often [TS]

  or move your windows around more often [TS]

  maybe you'd have less image retention [TS]

  but it still just replaces green for you [TS]

  right I wonder if there is it's kind of [TS]

  like if you use launch control on us on [TS]

  a sports car there's there's there's [TS]

  always like it's always like [TS]

  conventional wisdom that like there's a [TS]

  counter for that right and like if you [TS]

  burn out the engine like they'll check [TS]

  that counter or you do any launch [TS]

  controls like they won't serve as your [TS]

  car like is it like a counter on the [TS]

  iPhone of like how many times a day that [TS]

  I've let it reach that's like five max [TS]

  brightness for five minutes [TS]

  sorry sir we can't replace this panel [TS]

  you change this one setting too much [TS]

  it's been in the bathroom red flag John [TS]

  red flag it was actually a tag that [TS]

  wasn't it wasn't the proper tag we are [TS]

  sponsored this week by fracture who [TS]

  prints photos directly onto glass visit [TS]

  fracture dot me and get 50% off your [TS]

  first order with code 80 P 17 fracture [TS]

  prints photos on glass this is an [TS]

  amazing looking print you can hang it on [TS]

  the wall you can prop it up on a desk [TS]

  you can give them as gifts you can keep [TS]

  them in your own house or office they [TS]

  look great they get tons of compliments [TS]

  I have them all over my house all over [TS]

  my office I have photos I've gotten my [TS]

  app icons printed and little square ones [TS]

  and hanging like a little trophy app [TS]

  icon wall up above in my office here [TS]

  we've given lots of them as gifts to [TS]

  family members and friends things like [TS]

  if you have you know a cute picture of [TS]

  your kid or pet you can give them to [TS]

  other people who might appreciate that [TS]

  and your family and friends they make [TS]

  wonderful wonderful decorations for your [TS]

  home or gifts and the photos really look [TS]

  great the colors really pop the contrast [TS]

  is really perfect [TS]

  and it really just goes edge to edge [TS]

  with the coupe with the photo print it [TS]

  looks clean and sleek and modern without [TS]

  really needing any other ornamentation [TS]

  you don't need like a big frame around [TS]

  it or anything else like that so it's [TS]

  incredibly practical it's also [TS]

  incredibly economical you don't have to [TS]

  buy a frame or get it framed fractures [TS]

  are just great [TS]

  ordering is simple and fracture prints [TS]

  come ready to display right out of the [TS]

  box they even include the wall hanger if [TS]

  you need it and they are a green company [TS]

  operating a carbon-neutral factory right [TS]

  here in Gainesville Florida from us [TS]

  source materials so you can feel good [TS]

  about it but fracture wants you to know [TS]

  that around the holiday season [TS]

  they really get booked up quickly and in [TS]

  the holiday season they get tons and [TS]

  tons of orders because they make such [TS]

  great gifts so if you're gonna point if [TS]

  you're gonna order fracture prints for [TS]

  out the holiday season get your orders [TS]

  in now today not next week get them in [TS]

  today just so you can make sure you get [TS]

  it on time so check it out today at [TS]

  fracks your dot me and get 15% off your [TS]

  first order with code ATP 17 thank you [TS]

  so much to fracture for sponsoring our [TS]

  show anyway at least a couple people [TS]

  wrote in and were confused / perturbed [TS]

  that we didn't really talk about the [TS]

  iPhone 10 camera last week when we were [TS]

  going over our impressions that's a fair [TS]

  criticism and I don't have all that much [TS]

  to say surprisingly I do really really [TS]

  like portrait mode until Joe Steele [TS]

  corrects me and shows me all the ways in [TS]

  which portrait mode is terrible but my [TS]

  eyes are not discerning enough to be [TS]

  able to see in a lot of cases all the [TS]

  places that portrait mode is just [TS]

  falling on its face and and portrait [TS]

  mode is where they get the fake boat [TS]

  bouquet whatever however you pronounce [TS]

  it the background blur and the depth of [TS]

  field tricks is one of those words like [TS]

  niche or niche where no matter how you [TS]

  pronounce it everyone's gonna tell you [TS]

  what you're wrong yeah so if I remember [TS]

  I'll see if I can dig up some links for [TS]

  the for the show notes but it followed [TS]

  Joe Steele on Twitter he's funny and [TS]

  he's he's good but anyways he has gone [TS]

  through some of the pictures I've taken [TS]

  and noted all the places that portrait [TS]

  mode has been not as good [TS]

  and it's funny because some of the [TS]

  things that he's noted are extremely [TS]

  obvious in retrospect but in the heat of [TS]

  the moment I just don't notice them like [TS]

  I think I had tweeted a picture of a cup [TS]

  of Diet Coke at McDonald's to friend of [TS]

  the show Alex Cox and half of the straw [TS]

  was missing and I didn't even notice it [TS]

  pointed it out like again it's super [TS]

  obvious that I should have noticed I [TS]

  just didn't and maybe it's because I'm [TS]

  just predisposed to like this cuz this [TS]

  is the first time I've had this in a [TS]

  human-sized phone but uh but I really do [TS]

  like portrait mode and I think it's [TS]

  pretty cool it just has a lot of room to [TS]

  improve but I don't know Marco what do [TS]

  you think about the camera so I I had a [TS]

  hard time evaluating the camera in any [TS]

  kind of useful way to anybody else [TS]

  because I didn't have the duels through [TS]

  the dual lens camera from the 7 plus [TS]

  bill I didn't I didn't do plus phones [TS]

  before but my impressions of it with [TS]

  that giant disclaimer you know aside [TS]

  I love the regular cameras on this the [TS]

  regular wide and the regular you know [TS]

  quote telephoto which is not a telephoto [TS]

  but I'll take it because it's it's like [TS]

  a 45 millimeter ish equivalent something [TS]

  like that so I very much enjoy that [TS]

  focal length and and so I've really [TS]

  enjoyed the camera using its regular [TS]

  modes I have played a little bit with [TS]

  portrait mode and portrait lighting and [TS]

  have managed so far to take zero [TS]

  acceptable pictures with it in addition [TS]

  when I've seen other people's pictures [TS]

  using these modes I have seen I'm pretty [TS]

  sure 0 of them that I considered you [TS]

  know good without without obvious [TS]

  weirdness or flaws maybe it's because I [TS]

  have a lot of experience shooting [TS]

  pictures with big cameras and big glass [TS]

  with proper background blur with shout [TS]

  at the field but these the pictures from [TS]

  portrait mode and not even getting into [TS]

  portrait lighting which I think portrait [TS]

  lighting is basically the same thing but [TS]

  with some weird effects apply to the [TS]

  same data that sometimes work but [TS]

  usually don't portrait mode itself it [TS]

  just always looks really bizarre to me [TS]

  it never fools me into thinking that [TS]

  this was taken with a shallow depth of [TS]

  field and a lot of glass ideally it [TS]

  shouldn't be perfect every time but it [TS]

  should be able to provide that illusion [TS]

  much of the time and to me it just [TS]

  doesn't and they [TS]

  maybe I'm just being too picky or too [TS]

  observant or you know nitpicking on the [TS]

  details but the problem with me you know [TS]

  III basically have to two critical [TS]

  problems with it [TS]

  number one is obviously the depth map [TS]

  that it captures just simply is not [TS]

  granular enough it is not [TS]

  high-resolution enough and you can see [TS]

  they've actually been a couple of apps [TS]

  one of them is called focus FOCS [TS]

  this is really cool like 3d you can kind [TS]

  of like it kind of like shows you the [TS]

  picture in the 3d rendering as the depth [TS]

  map and you can kind of turn it and you [TS]

  can see like the different layers that [TS]

  are captured in the depth map it's [TS]

  really cool to see but you you can see [TS]

  from these deaf math viewing apps that [TS]

  the resolution of the depth data is not [TS]

  very high it's not very granular it's [TS]

  it's pretty coarse there's not that many [TS]

  levels and there's and it's not doing [TS]

  per pixel depth mapping so that's why [TS]

  you can have like if somebody has like a [TS]

  hair sticking out of their head that [TS]

  hair will be blurred away in this effect [TS]

  whereas on a real camera that hair if [TS]

  the rest of her hair was InFocus that [TS]

  hair being focused to and also in [TS]

  Infinity starts like at the back of the [TS]

  people's head like that only does it not [TS]

  have a lot of levels but it uses up all [TS]

  the levels on the stuff that's close to [TS]

  you so it's like nose cheek ear back of [TS]

  the head and that everything else is one [TS]

  depth which is behind like the farthest [TS]

  depth so when you do the 3d 3d thing and [TS]

  you rotate it it looks like everyone's [TS]

  head is embedded in a wall and that wall [TS]

  is like here are the levels close closer [TS]

  close nose and then everything else is [TS]

  basically either infinity or whatever [TS]

  that and so when they blur the [TS]

  background they're blurring everything [TS]

  that's beyond their last level of depth [TS]

  resolution as if it's equidistant and [TS]

  and it's not like the tree that's ten [TS]

  feet from you is too different than the [TS]

  tree that's forty feet from you but as [TS]

  far as the blurring is concerned it has [TS]

  no more depth information so it treats [TS]

  them all the same which contributes to [TS]

  the what Mark was talking about if you [TS]

  know what it's supposed to look like and [TS]

  you see these pictures it's so obvious [TS]

  to you this something is off right so [TS]

  like so you know problem number one is [TS]

  that the depth information is not high [TS]

  resolution enough to even do the effect [TS]

  consistently around things like object [TS]

  edges and that's that's where you [TS]

  the obvious problems up here is you know [TS]

  around edges you know edges of people's [TS]

  heads edges of objects you know because [TS]

  they're Justin's very course map and [TS]

  they're trying to be smart about it and [TS]

  they succeed sometimes but like even [TS]

  apples example photos I remember like [TS]

  when when the iPhone 8 and 10 we went [TS]

  when their event happened and they put [TS]

  up their big press pages on the site [TS]

  even some of their example photos I [TS]

  thought had obvious flaws from the [TS]

  algorithm so again maybe I'm just seen [TS]

  this too much but they're not capturing [TS]

  enough resolution of depth data to be [TS]

  able to do the edges correctly that's [TS]

  why edges always look weird and fuzzy [TS]

  and they blur things that shouldn't be [TS]

  blurred and vice versa sometimes and the [TS]

  other problem is which on set the blur [TS]

  doesn't look right like if if you have [TS]

  seen actual you know blur photos from [TS]

  real optics more than a few times you [TS]

  will probably recognize that the type [TS]

  and look of the blur in these portrait [TS]

  mode photos isn't right like and and [TS]

  it's hard to put into words why but it's [TS]

  just not the right kind of blur it [TS]

  doesn't look the way it would look for a [TS]

  lens even if the def map was perfect and [TS]

  they were able to do it pixel by pixel [TS]

  the blur is still wrong and so the end [TS]

  and it looks it just looks like a filter [TS]

  it looks like a like a cheap image [TS]

  editing filter that's trying to cover up [TS]

  bad optics which it is so so well you [TS]

  know not not bad small optics that are [TS]

  not designed for this now so all that [TS]

  being said I am very very happy with the [TS]

  camera without any of these tricks it's [TS]

  a fantastic camera and you don't need [TS]

  the portrait crazy effects that all look [TS]

  weird and blur the edges of your dog off [TS]

  you don't need those to make this camera [TS]

  look amazing they're a fun trick they're [TS]

  a fun demo I'm sure and I'm sure people [TS]

  have fun with them and I'm sure [TS]

  everyone's going to write in to me [TS]

  saying how much fun they have with them [TS]

  if you like them great but I really [TS]

  really don't and the cameras are so good [TS]

  without them that I almost find them [TS]

  like an odd detraction from this [TS]

  otherwise awesome camera but fortunately [TS]

  it doesn't get in my way I just don't [TS]

  use those modes and I get to take [TS]

  awesome [TS]

  pictures well you know technically [TS]

  awesome my competition is terrible but [TS]

  but I hate to take technically awesome [TS]

  pictures with this camera and with both [TS]

  of these cameras and finally had the [TS]

  flexibility of having that zoomed in [TS]

  lens and I loved all that I just have no [TS]

  use for the for the trickery modes [TS]

  having a telephoto lens is really really [TS]

  nice [TS]

  and I forget that it's a thing at first [TS]

  because I'm so used to just never ever [TS]

  ever zooming my camera ever you know and [TS]

  early as my iPhone I should say in the [TS]

  same way that I never really use the [TS]

  flash ever because I've just trained [TS]

  myself to never use the flash which [TS]

  actually from everything I've gathered [TS]

  and seen the flash on the iPhone both [TS]

  front facing and rear is actually not [TS]

  bad I mean it doesn't mean that it's [TS]

  perfect but it as a flash goes [TS]

  particularly on a phone it's pretty [TS]

  decent and so because I've trained [TS]

  myself to never zoom I forget that the [TS]

  telephoto lens is a thing but as it [TS]

  turns out it's awesome just like you [TS]

  were saying Marco just to have the [TS]

  option to zoom at all is really really [TS]

  nice [TS]

  and as a quick aside at work today we [TS]

  had a chili cook-off and in I'm going [TS]

  somewhere with this the way it worked [TS]

  was we had something like we had [TS]

  something like twelve different [TS]

  employees cooked Chili's and then they [TS]

  gave us like a little shooter like a [TS]

  shot cup or it would be a glass if you [TS]

  will but like a little play a paper cup [TS]

  it was like the size of a shot that you [TS]

  could take a little sample of each of [TS]

  the chilies and you know vote on [TS]

  whichever one was your favorite right so [TS]

  I take it a picture to send to Aaron [TS]

  earlier today and I used portrait mode [TS]

  now in the defense of Apple portrait [TS]

  mode was only really officially marketed [TS]

  as being for people but what I did was I [TS]

  took a shot of my stack of you know shot [TS]

  cups if you will and and I sent it to [TS]

  her and I just looked back at it a few [TS]

  minutes ago and realized that if you [TS]

  look at it at a glance it looks really [TS]

  really good or at least it does to me [TS]

  but if you look at it for even a second [TS]

  more than a glance and I've put a link [TS]

  in the show notes now put a link in the [TS]

  chat room look at the right side all the [TS]

  way at the top like part of the cup it's [TS]

  just gone which [TS]

  yes proposed algorithm kind of hopefully [TS]

  found the edge of that design on the cup [TS]

  and expected that that was an edge of a [TS]

  person and just blurt it out for you [TS]

  which I mean again to be fair to Apple [TS]

  like this is a really crummy situation [TS]

  to put this software through right to [TS]

  put this edge detection through like [TS]

  this is this is this is ripe for failure [TS]

  but at the same time like it is it is [TS]

  clear that I'm not going to be giving up [TS]

  on my Micro Four Thirds camera anytime [TS]

  soon you know what I mean so I think the [TS]

  blur effect that Marco thought look bad [TS]

  I think that blur effect would be fine [TS]

  if there was depth information back [TS]

  there because the reason I think it [TS]

  looks terrible is because it is [TS]

  basically blurring a flat photo whereas [TS]

  if you have an actual absolute optically [TS]

  you know blurred stuff depending on the [TS]

  distance the closer things are blurred [TS]

  less than things are farther away like [TS]

  depending it from with how close they [TS]

  are to like that you know the focal [TS]

  point right but if you only have depth [TS]

  information for the first like two feet [TS]

  in front of you everything behind that [TS]

  is like a blurred poster and it looks [TS]

  like a blurred poster but all that said [TS]

  I agree with Marco like you don't need [TS]

  this the cameras are great without it [TS]

  there that you know that's probably why [TS]

  we didn't talk about it's like these are [TS]

  the best iPhone cameras ever everything [TS]

  Apple says it's true they are better [TS]

  than the previous cameras and the [TS]

  previous cameras are already pretty good [TS]

  and they're great and you'll take good [TS]

  pictures with them two things to say [TS]

  about this the portrait lighting modes [TS]

  I think the fill their purpose better [TS]

  than the whatever the portrait blurring [TS]

  mode because they're so focused on like [TS]

  selfies and you know dramatic pictures [TS]

  of people they're more like Instagram [TS]

  filters were like yeah we're gonna [TS]

  mangle your picture for an artistic [TS]

  effect no one is going to think like [TS]

  this is an untouched photo and that's [TS]

  the point the crazy studio lighting [TS]

  where blacks out the background for [TS]

  extra drama and stuff you can get some [TS]

  hilarious weird effects out of that but [TS]

  it's kind of you know that's it the [TS]

  people who want to use it and try it are [TS]

  getting exactly what they want out of it [TS]

  ridiculous over long dramatic effects [TS]

  that they're gonna screw up a lot of [TS]

  time but hey you think 900 selfies [TS]

  before you pick the one you like anyway [TS]

  right so no problem there as for the [TS]

  portrait mode blurring thing which has [TS]

  been around for a while now and I see [TS]

  all over the place in real life on on [TS]

  Instagram [TS]

  I think the main feature of that is if [TS]

  you don't have a big expensive camera [TS]

  and most people don't and I just look at [TS]

  the numbers like this they don't sell a [TS]

  lot of big expensive cameras as compared [TS]

  to the number of cell phones this is the [TS]

  first time many people have ever been [TS]

  able to take a picture that has this [TS]

  look that you know oh the thing I wanted [TS]

  to take a picture of now look sharper [TS]

  because the rest of the thing is blurred [TS]

  and so I'm not distracted by the [TS]

  background and it looks like a better [TS]

  picture it looks more professional it [TS]

  doesn't matter whether they can tell [TS]

  whether it looks right or not all that [TS]

  matters is that they had never [TS]

  previously had the ability to take [TS]

  pictures there were anything like this [TS]

  that had any kind of depth of field [TS]

  right it was always like everything was [TS]

  you know there's some tiny pinhole [TS]

  camera and everything was in focus cuz [TS]

  all the light beams were getting phone [TS]

  through this tiny tiny aperture on there [TS]

  you know cheap camera on their phone [TS]

  right and so for them it's a huge [TS]

  upgrade of never having this effect and [TS]

  subjectively looking at a picture of [TS]

  your kid with the background and [TS]

  pleasantly blurred out makes your kid [TS]

  look better right it's not that they're [TS]

  comparing that to how it would look with [TS]

  you know an actual wide aperture big [TS]

  glass expensive camera because they [TS]

  don't have one of those and they [TS]

  probably never will they're comparing it [TS]

  to how it would look if that with that [TS]

  effect turned off and as far as they're [TS]

  concerned this looks better because it [TS]

  just looks closer to like a [TS]

  quote-unquote professional picture or a [TS]

  magazine type picture and I can see that [TS]

  I can see but when I see if we use it [TS]

  like they just say I just like it better [TS]

  it looks better so in the end that the [TS]

  blurring portrait picture is giving [TS]

  people a better experience with this [TS]

  phone at least in the moment where [TS]

  they're like this phone takes pictures [TS]

  that I'm just blown away they maybe [TS]

  don't even know what it is about them [TS]

  like they just look better right and [TS]

  even if you point out how you just [TS]

  erased your kids ear they're like oh but [TS]

  I still like it the only only concern [TS]

  with the blurring which so many people [TS]

  love is that I worry that years down the [TS]

  line they will feel bad that all their [TS]

  pictures of lily and Apple also saves [TS]

  the unmodified picture so that shouldn't [TS]

  be a problem but I still worry that [TS]

  somehow that information will get lost [TS]

  or the blurred [TS]

  we burned out to a flat JPEG and moved [TS]

  around to different service and just you [TS]

  know I don't know like I've already [TS]

  heard from some people who kind of [TS]

  regret they took a lot of pictures of [TS]

  their kids with that maybe they maybe [TS]

  they don't know they can recover the [TS]

  original or maybe they can't anymore [TS]

  because they've exported it in some way [TS]

  but in general I think despite what [TS]

  Marco and I a many other big camera [TS]

  owning people think about it a lot of [TS]

  people like this feature I think it [TS]

  helps sell iPhones and I think it makes [TS]

  people happier with their phone and [TS]

  happier with the pictures they take with [TS]

  it yeah I agree [TS]

  and again if you don't take a critical [TS]

  eye to it which for the three of us is [TS]

  or certainly the two of you probably the [TS]

  three of us is hilarious but you know if [TS]

  I don't if I don't really and truly look [TS]

  at these pictures even those cups which [TS]

  as soon as you take a true look at it [TS]

  it's so obvious how broken it is but at [TS]

  a glance I didn't even notice so yeah if [TS]

  you're not discerning then this is more [TS]

  than enough and it saves you the [TS]

  thousand plus dollars of getting another [TS]

  camera that has big glass etc yeah you [TS]

  would want to spend a thousand dollars [TS]

  on a camera right yeah why would you [TS]

  guys spend $1,200 on a phone it's fine [TS]

  though we are brought to you this week [TS]

  by jammed now which helps you manage [TS]

  your Apple devices from anywhere create [TS]

  your free account today at Jam comm [TS]

  slash ATP that's JAMF comm slash ATP [TS]

  when you first start a business it is [TS]

  pretty easy to keep track of your own [TS]

  computer and your own phone and your own [TS]

  iPad but as you grow you start to apply [TS]

  more technology for your employees and [TS]

  it gets harder to keep track of [TS]

  everyone's Macs iPhones and iPads and [TS]

  how to manage them figuring out how to [TS]

  secure for example the iPad that your [TS]

  sales rep just lost this can be tough [TS]

  and this can require lots of complex [TS]

  technology and setup especially if you [TS]

  want to do it all remotely for any [TS]

  locations jammed now makes that and a [TS]

  whole lot more much easier you can [TS]

  configure settings protect sensitive [TS]

  information or even remotely lock or [TS]

  wipe a device from anywhere [TS]

  jammed now secures your stuff so you can [TS]

  focus on your business instead with no [TS]

  IT expertise needed a TV listeners can [TS]

  start securing your business today by [TS]

  setting up your first three devices for [TS]

  free and you can add more after that for [TS]

  just 2 bucks per month per device [TS]

  your free account today and see for [TS]

  yourself at jam com / ATP that's JAMF [TS]

  dot-com / ATP manage your Apple devices [TS]

  from anywhere alright moving on to ask [TS]

  ATP Kim Albrecht writes in with John [TS]

  consider gaming on the GeForce now [TS]

  service instead of getting a tricked-out [TS]

  new Mac Pro and and Kim included a [TS]

  youtube link which we will put in the [TS]

  show notes so what is g-force now and [TS]

  what is this about what is this all [TS]

  about [TS]

  so the short answer is no I wouldn't [TS]

  consider that but the longer answer is [TS]

  what do you for us now is g-force now is [TS]

  another sad / I don't know it's it's sad [TS]

  to me attempt to get gaming to bring [TS]

  gaming to Mac users right you got a Mac [TS]

  you want to play games [TS]

  boot camp is there for you if you want [TS]

  it but even if you go in boot camp you [TS]

  probably don't have the best GPU because [TS]

  Apple isn't cellmaxx with it and so [TS]

  you're like what if you want to play the [TS]

  most demanding modern PC games but you [TS]

  don't want to and a PC you just have a [TS]

  Mac you're kind of stuck these days and [TS]

  you for us now is the service a lot like [TS]

  some services in the past including the [TS]

  one I'm most familiar with on live for [TS]

  many years ago where it will run the [TS]

  game for you in a data center far away [TS]

  on a tricked-out PC with all the fancy [TS]

  hardware presumably using nvidia gpus [TS]

  right and then it will let you remotely [TS]

  control that PC sending the picture of [TS]

  it to your screen and letting your [TS]

  keyboard and mouse act as input for it [TS]

  so that's what the g-force now services [TS]

  and it lets you run unlike your dinky [TS]

  like Matt you know MacBook escape with a [TS]

  Wimpy GPU you can run the most modern [TS]

  game at a really high frame rate at a [TS]

  really high resolution because you're [TS]

  not running it it's running on a fancy [TS]

  computer far away from you you're just [TS]

  displaying the results is kind of a dumb [TS]

  terminal but of course there's no you [TS]

  know no free lunch you've got latency [TS]

  because you're communicating over the [TS]

  Internet the image quality that you're [TS]

  getting is not going to be the same as [TS]

  if it was running locally because they [TS]

  have to compress that video and send it [TS]

  to you you need to have a fast internet [TS]

  connection [TS]

  to have not many hitches and your [TS]

  internet connection you need to have a [TS]

  surprising amount of bandwidth because [TS]

  there are a lot of frames in that video [TS]

  and that's generally why I wouldn't want [TS]

  instead of a local computer because the [TS]

  compromises are not great and they are [TS]

  especially bad for some of the types of [TS]

  games that I like like you know a game [TS]

  like destiny if I want to try I would [TS]

  love to play destiny too on on the PC [TS]

  because I get a higher framerate and [TS]

  it's higher res but destiny does have a [TS]

  game that is very sensitive to lag it [TS]

  would really affect gameplay if you want [TS]

  to play something like civilization or [TS]

  some other game that is also very [TS]

  demanding but maybe not as sensitive to [TS]

  like I don't know someone who play [TS]

  civilization could tell me if it's if [TS]

  it's a game where you need to have [TS]

  twitch reflexes but surely there are [TS]

  games out there that you don't care [TS]

  about the extra latency and it's more [TS]

  about you know the rest of the gameplay [TS]

  experience this would be something you [TS]

  might be interested in it's going to be [TS]

  a pay service and then you have to pay [TS]

  for the games on top of that so it's you [TS]

  know it's cheaper than buying a gaming [TS]

  PC but it's an additional cost so I wish [TS]

  them luck with the service and it seems [TS]

  like a good idea I just wish that gaming [TS]

  would actually get better on Macs but if [TS]

  that's never ever gonna happen I'm kind [TS]

  of glad that someone still feels like [TS]

  there's money to be squeezed from Mac [TS]

  users should want to play games as long [TS]

  as they make that amount of money [TS]

  smaller than the price and hasslein and [TS]

  desk space of buying a gaming PC I guess [TS]

  maybe there's a market for it alright so [TS]

  mark MV writes in do you use a VPN if so [TS]

  which one would you recommend so the [TS]

  motivation here I think is that there [TS]

  are many VPN services that that allow [TS]

  for different things one example is if [TS]

  you live outside the United States but [TS]

  want to have an internet connection that [TS]

  appears to be within the United States [TS]

  so you can use well I guess Netflix used [TS]

  to be a good example now I don't think [TS]

  it's quite as important or any number of [TS]

  other services that are that are forced [TS]

  to be us-only but another option is if [TS]

  you're just in a public Wi-Fi hotspot [TS]

  and you want your your communications to [TS]

  be encrypted then you could use a VPN [TS]

  for that I do use a VPN when I am out of [TS]

  the house on a Wi-Fi networks that I do [TS]

  not trust or if for some reason I want [TS]

  to get on my in-home network and the [TS]

  answer that I have for what VPN do I [TS]

  recommend well I recommend the [TS]

  VPN that you run on your Synology that's [TS]

  sitting in your house it's not a [TS]

  terribly useful recommendation I'll be [TS]

  the first to admit but you could install [TS]

  mac OS server if you have a computer at [TS]

  home a Mac at home that's on all the [TS]

  time if you have any sort of like cheap [TS]

  computer that can run Linux you can run [TS]

  you know various different servers that [TS]

  do it that way or if you have a Synology [TS]

  that I strongly recommend setting up a [TS]

  VPN server on there if like me you [TS]

  connect your Synology to the Internet [TS]

  which I know John's is not but that's [TS]

  what I do I can't speak for either of [TS]

  you guys so Marco what do you do for [TS]

  this if anything I mostly don't use them [TS]

  because first of all I'm hardly ever out [TS]

  of my house and when I am usually on the [TS]

  cell network and I know the Sun network [TS]

  is not perfectly secure but I'm hardly [TS]

  ever connecting to somebody else's Wi-Fi [TS]

  it is what I'm saying [TS]

  so it where I think is probably the most [TS]

  common need for a VPN is to you know [TS]

  protect yourself in that kind of [TS]

  situation there are lots of other [TS]

  reasons to use one as you said you know [TS]

  I I'm not that up on what's the best [TS]

  solution if security and privacy are the [TS]

  main reasons you're using them there [TS]

  like you can use a big service like like [TS]

  so the one I use occasionally when I [TS]

  need it is encrypt me which is formally [TS]

  known as cloak I signed up for that a [TS]

  little while back but it's mostly for [TS]

  practicality not like sheer amount of [TS]

  security so for instance at my in-laws [TS]

  place their crappy rural ISP blocks [TS]

  outbound SSH connections so I can't into [TS]

  any of yes so I can't log into any of my [TS]

  servers when I'm there it's probably [TS]

  like I'm sure it's like you know some [TS]

  like Windows worm probably started [TS]

  attacking SSH servers they just figure [TS]

  they block I don't know I'm sure there [TS]

  was a reason like that it's not whatever [TS]

  it is not a good reason but the fact is [TS]

  I have to occasionally log in the [TS]

  servers when I'm away so [TS]

  so I basically bought it just to do that [TS]

  but I use it also when traveling you [TS]

  know when I have to be like on a hotel [TS]

  Wi-Fi for a reasonable connectivity I'll [TS]

  use it that but I usually don't use one [TS]

  because again I'm usually I'm almost [TS]

  never connected to anybody else's Wi-Fi [TS]

  networks I think the whole idea of [TS]

  connecting to a random Wi-Fi network in [TS]

  public and letting all your traffic flow [TS]

  over that without always being encrypted [TS]

  like without everything running over [TS]

  HTTP which you know let's face it you're [TS]

  gonna have something that probably [TS]

  doesn't the idea of that sounds crazy to [TS]

  me and I think we're gonna look back on [TS]

  this era of using public Wi-Fi networks [TS]

  unencrypted like I think we're gonna [TS]

  look back on this and think that was [TS]

  crazy [TS]

  in in not even that long maybe in five [TS]

  or ten years this was the whole idea of [TS]

  can I think of random public Wi-Fi and [TS]

  everyone not having every device have a [TS]

  Sylar connection that is theirs in [TS]

  private that's gonna seem barbaric but [TS]

  anyway yeah I use I use cloak which is [TS]

  now known as encrypt me but hardly I [TS]

  hope that I hardly ever actually need to [TS]

  use it if you are doing it more for [TS]

  privacy I don't know a lot about this [TS]

  but I do know there is always discussion [TS]

  about like which of the various VPN [TS]

  services keep logs or will be beholden [TS]

  to government requests or things like [TS]

  that there's all sorts of like levels of [TS]

  paranoia slash security depending on [TS]

  your point of view that that you can go [TS]

  into with this and I not familiar with [TS]

  that so I will say if you lead in that [TS]

  direction or if you have more advanced [TS]

  needs like that you're probably better [TS]

  off doing something more like KC's just [TS]

  suggested which is like kind of running [TS]

  your own on some kind of server that you [TS]

  can trust somewhere rather than doing [TS]

  somebody's big service but that's I [TS]

  don't worry about that I'm always [TS]

  worried about you know kind of like this [TS]

  story's about antivirus software being a [TS]

  vector for malware right VPNs the VPNs [TS]

  that are secretly run by like some [TS]

  hostile foreign government unbeknownst [TS]

  to you they're just man in the middle [TS]

  and all of your traffic even is secure [TS]

  stuff and feeding you fake certificates [TS]

  for SSL and all sorts of other stuff and [TS]

  like I'm using on my Synology its local [TS]

  it's fine it's like a you don't know [TS]

  that you don't know like Synology could [TS]

  be unknowing shipping some you know [TS]

  thing that is infected with some malware [TS]

  that is sending all your traffic to [TS]

  who-knows-where by in general I use VPN [TS]

  at work for work because I have to I [TS]

  have no idea if the VPN I'm using for [TS]

  work is actually making things more [TS]

  secure or not but I have to use it so I [TS]

  do [TS]

  when I am out and about I'm never [TS]

  connecting back to anything in my home [TS]

  because I have no way to do so just [TS]

  because that just makes me feel more [TS]

  comfortable and I tend not to you know I [TS]

  think I have cloak and a couple other [TS]

  VPN software that I think I've used on [TS]

  occasion when I've been feeling [TS]

  particularly paranoid and have no choice [TS]

  but to connect to some potentially [TS]

  sketchy Wi-Fi network but in general I I [TS]

  will connect to Wi-Fi at the hotel I'm [TS]

  staying at and I'll just use it and just [TS]

  try not to worry about it I'm basically [TS]

  going for the Big Sky theory which is a [TS]

  lot of people out in the world didn't [TS]

  unless someone is specifically targeting [TS]

  me I'm probably gonna be fine [TS]

  and on-cell most of the time that I'm [TS]

  away anyway but I have to think back a [TS]

  few times over so I use the hotel Wi-Fi [TS]

  I rely on the fact that the things I [TS]

  care about should all be over a cell and [TS]

  I just hope that I'm not being [TS]

  man-in-the-middle with some fake [TS]

  certificate authority crap and I just [TS]

  keep my fingers crossed because what [TS]

  else can you do and there's also other [TS]

  practical reasons you might want to use [TS]

  one like there's a lot of VPN services [TS]

  that provide built-in ad blocking for [TS]

  like just all of your stuff through the [TS]

  VPN there's some that that enable you [TS]

  know as he said to enable you to change [TS]

  your regions for video services which [TS]

  can be nice there's also such and that [TS]

  could be not only just internationally [TS]

  but even that could be for things like [TS]

  sports black out things which I'll I [TS]

  don't want even pretend to know anything [TS]

  more than just that's a term that exists [TS]

  I'm sorry there's also things like like [TS]

  on airplanes where a lot of times the [TS]

  airplane Wi-Fi providers will throttle [TS]

  or block certain things or they'll do [TS]

  they'll do creepy things like recompress [TS]

  images down to lower lower sizes and if [TS]

  your friend or do something that [TS]

  requires you to not have your images [TS]

  recompress like if you're doing web [TS]

  development or something that might get [TS]

  in your way so you can you know [TS]

  oftentimes they will allow you to get [TS]

  around those restrictions even when [TS]

  you're like at a hotel or something or [TS]

  on some kind of like large public Wi-Fi [TS]

  network like an airport or something [TS]

  like that [TS]

  a lot of times they will use different [TS]

  traffic prioritization schemes to D [TS]

  prioritize or limit certain types of [TS]

  traffic that might get in your way so [TS]

  what you know if you're like you know [TS]

  trying to download something off of a [TS]

  CDN or if you're trying to watch a [TS]

  youtube video or something that might [TS]

  get throttled or blocked [TS]

  Hotel or Airport if you download it [TS]

  directly but if you go through a VPN it [TS]

  might not be so like there it kind of [TS]

  gives you more flexibility and more [TS]

  options to have this tool at your [TS]

  disposal if you're out and about a lot [TS]

  yeah some people use it just to get a [TS]

  different route like if you're having [TS]

  trouble reaching a server and connect [TS]

  your VPN because then your traffic will [TS]

  go through the VPN which may be [TS]

  geographically located in a way that [TS]

  totally changes your route to that host [TS]

  and suddenly you can get through to it [TS]

  some people have tried this like getting [TS]

  through to the store when ordering [TS]

  putting their thing on Wi-Fi through a [TS]

  VPN to have a different route on one [TS]

  device to see if maybe their CDN comes [TS]

  up sooner lots of interesting things you [TS]

  can do to sort of using VPN not for its [TS]

  primary purpose but merely to just take [TS]

  a different path to the same destination [TS]

  all right Eliot George would like to [TS]

  know do you think Apple will eventually [TS]

  bring air power to its magic mouse and [TS]

  keyboard so to recap the new iPhones all [TS]

  support G a key g-g-gee wireless [TS]

  charging Thank You that's neat [TS]

  exactly and pizzelle they pronounce they [TS]

  support that wireless charging and so [TS]

  the Apple is announced but not released [TS]

  a special mat that will allow you to [TS]

  charge your phone your watch and your [TS]

  ear pods given you spend money on a [TS]

  special case or get a brand-new set of [TS]

  air pods all on the same mat because [TS]

  currently you can only from most of [TS]

  these pads you can only charge one [TS]

  device at a time and so air power will [TS]

  allow you to do if you're super nerd [TS]

  like me that has a watch in air pods and [TS]

  a phone it will let you do all three on [TS]

  one pad so it's asking do we think that [TS]

  Apple will eventually bring air power to [TS]

  match your mouse and keyboard I don't [TS]

  think so but I can't figure out why it [TS]

  just doesn't feel to me like something [TS]

  Apple would do I think they're perfectly [TS]

  satisfied with having you periodically [TS]

  charge via the via the lightning cable [TS]

  even the harpooned turtle that is the [TS]

  Magic Mouse and I don't think they feel [TS]

  like there's really any need to change [TS]

  or improve that but I don't know that's [TS]

  my thoughts Jon they changed her Apple [TS]

  input devices so infrequently the [TS]

  keyboards changing precluding the mice [TS]

  change even more [TS]

  frequently but all that said I think the [TS]

  mouse is they should do it and I think [TS]

  there's a reasonable chance that they [TS]

  will just because the Harper turtle is [TS]

  ridiculous and the reason I did the [TS]

  Arbutin turtle is no other good place to [TS]

  plug the thing in and the mouse is small [TS]

  and easy to pick up and put on a mat so [TS]

  once a month when you have to recharge [TS]

  it it's easier to just see like the [TS]

  thing pops up to just plop it down on [TS]

  the thing keyboard would be too awkward [TS]

  like how do you pick up your keyboard [TS]

  and like balance it's bigger than the [TS]

  air power mat you're not gonna have a [TS]

  mat that's the size of your keyboard and [TS]

  the keyboard would take up the whole [TS]

  thing and which part of the keyboard [TS]

  needs to be over the thing it just seems [TS]

  like not a good fit the mouse is more or [TS]

  less the size of a phone I think it [TS]

  would fit perfectly well and I think it [TS]

  will solve that harpooned turtle [TS]

  problems solve they're like where do we [TS]

  put the charging port problem and if you [TS]

  do have one of those mats there's a [TS]

  reasonable chance that it will be on the [TS]

  desk where your computer is because [TS]

  that's where you plop your phone when [TS]

  you're using the computer so you plop [TS]

  your mouse there so I'm I'm semi [TS]

  optimistic that five years from now when [TS]

  they finally revise their Mouse again [TS]

  that it will have whatever the current [TS]

  standard of wireless charging is because [TS]

  it makes sense to me as a product to be [TS]

  a thing that you put on a mat to charge [TS]

  every once in a while yeah that sounds [TS]

  about right [TS]

  the only thing is that the the lightning [TS]

  method of charging them also provides a [TS]

  secondary function which is it pairs [TS]

  them to the computer like you never have [TS]

  to go through bluetooth pairing and [TS]

  everything all you have to do is plug [TS]

  them into the lightning cable that's [TS]

  mention to the computer and it just [TS]

  automatically pairs through the computer [TS]

  which is really nice it's also [TS]

  frequently used for me when my trackpad [TS]

  disconnects itself for no reason [TS]

  thanks Sierra and then I have to plug it [TS]

  back in about every two days so that it [TS]

  reconnects itself so there's there's [TS]

  reasons why you need what the cable is [TS]

  nice to have besides just charging I [TS]

  agree with John that you know the it [TS]

  doesn't make as much sense on the [TS]

  trackpad and keyboard where it's not [TS]

  only do they need to be plugged in [TS]

  general s often but also you can still [TS]

  use them when they're plugged in so if [TS]

  you forget to charge a keyboard or [TS]

  trackpad not that big of a deal just [TS]

  plug the cable in and keep working [TS]

  whereas you forget to charge the mouse [TS]

  you have to literally just stop using it [TS]

  for a while as it sits there sideways [TS]

  then you go back to your trackpad that [TS]

  has [TS]

  has [TS]

  for no reason so not that I'm bitter [TS]

  this to me it's it's an interesting [TS]

  problem to solve on the mouse but if [TS]

  they just move the port to the front of [TS]

  the mouse and gave us a little like [TS]

  indentation there that would also solve [TS]

  the problem with lightning port I think [TS]

  it's the Qi charging makes is less [TS]

  necessary and is less compelling for a [TS]

  device that you only have to charge once [TS]

  a month for a little while you know it's [TS]

  it makes a lot more sense on devices [TS]

  like phones where you are using them [TS]

  constantly and they're draining their [TS]

  batteries constantly and then every [TS]

  night or even throughout the day they [TS]

  need to be topped off they need to be [TS]

  recharged that's not really the case of [TS]

  these with these peripherals so I can't [TS]

  I can't really see them doing that [TS]

  necessarily they really need a dizzily [TS]

  to solve you're just connecting problems [TS]

  like you know the equivalent or maybe [TS]

  the identical you think the w1 chip like [TS]

  this the fact that you can plug it into [TS]

  parity is great because it gets you out [TS]

  of the whole Bluetooth device pairing [TS]

  game like this I'd circumvented it with [TS]

  a hardwired connection but also on air [TS]

  pods there you know they have their own [TS]

  pairing mechanism yes they are positive [TS]

  bluetooth but the whole w1 thing and the [TS]

  experience of opening a little container [TS]

  and switching easily from device to [TS]

  device and all that stuff that [TS]

  experience would help you presumably [TS]

  work around OS bugs when your trackpad [TS]

  disconnects without having to actually [TS]

  plug in a cable and so you know wireless [TS]

  everything for devices that are small [TS]

  and handheld I think is a reasonable [TS]

  future and like they revised their mice [TS]

  so infrequently that by the time they do [TS]

  all the stuff should be more reliable [TS]

  lower power cheaper and just sort of be [TS]

  table stakes for any portable thing that [TS]

  has batteries it presumably will become [TS]

  less common to have to keep plugging [TS]

  these things in and have to have ports [TS]

  on them and have to deal with connectors [TS]

  it'll just be like put it down on the [TS]

  pad and let it go so why don't you like [TS]

  the next task ATP which I know we've [TS]

  already hit three but I'm bothered by [TS]

  you not liking this question and I am [TS]

  willing to give Marco the editing work [TS]

  to clean this up because you're so in [TS]

  the show notes [TS]

  it reads how would you define quote [TS]

  close [TS]

  - the metal quote - non nerds and do you [TS]

  have a favorite non-computer analogical [TS]

  use for the saying and and all I feel is [TS]

  that a word I don't think so [TS]

  looks terror in and and it's prefixed in [TS]

  italics I don't like this question so I [TS]

  asked in slack earlier John why don't [TS]

  you like this question the response I [TS]

  got was as follows many reasons I was [TS]

  busy and we have time to type a big [TS]

  thing I pad I got type a big answer to [TS]

  you on my iPad so what the hell's wrong [TS]

  with this is a perfectly reasonable [TS]

  quality you don't have a smart Keyboard [TS]

  on an iPad no that's it I know I don't [TS]

  know you're missing out the only way to [TS]

  use an iPad pro is with a key with smart [TS]

  Keyboard it's so good I don't type I'm [TS]

  just reading the web and browsing [TS]

  Twitter and watching YouTube I'm not [TS]

  typing things yeah because it's sucks to [TS]

  type on the screen but if you have a [TS]

  keyboard start typing on it I wouldn't a [TS]

  laptop we get a laptop but I don't like [TS]

  laptops oh I don't have a laptop except [TS]

  your work laptop no choice right I don't [TS]

  like that one either anyway what the [TS]

  hell's wrong with this question my my [TS]

  assumption is that they're asking this [TS]

  because of the Merlin many years old [TS]

  troll gag of trying to say you know is [TS]

  that close to the metal he was like [TS]

  riffing on something that we said in an [TS]

  early tech podcast that he reframed and [TS]

  and you know I don't know if close the [TS]

  metal was something we said or was close [TS]

  to something we said but he catched he [TS]

  latched on to it is like a catchphrase [TS]

  and sort of a nonsense thing that like [TS]

  it's a it's a multi-layered multi-year [TS]

  old gag that has lost all meaning and [TS]

  never really did have a meaning it's [TS]

  like his returning null thing right [TS]

  that's it's it's not it doesn't seem [TS]

  like an honest question because what how [TS]

  would you define why would you find [TS]

  yourself needing to define close to the [TS]

  metal unless they also listened to a [TS]

  bunch of podcasts with me and Marilyn [TS]

  for years and years to understand what [TS]

  this gag is about in which case you [TS]

  would never need to define it like [TS]

  there's context that's missing here what [TS]

  is the why does this come up why are you [TS]

  saying close to the metal to anyone why [TS]

  do you feel like you have to explain it [TS]

  why is it an important thing for them to [TS]

  understand [TS]

  you understand it are you asking me to [TS]

  explain it to you or do you just want [TS]

  you think you understand it but you want [TS]

  me to tell you how to explain it to [TS]

  someone else who doesn't care about it [TS]

  it's a bad question that's why we're not [TS]

  answering it are you serious same thing [TS]

  I've ever heard maybe you guys don't [TS]

  have that same context and maybe this [TS]

  I'm wrong and this person also has no [TS]

  idea what I'm talking about and they [TS]

  just like I've just heard close to the [TS]

  middle line I wanted to know what it [TS]

  mean do I know what I mean but I need to [TS]

  explain to other people maybe it's [TS]

  perfectly honest but I didn't interpret [TS]

  it that way how would you define quote [TS]

  close to the metal quote to non nerds [TS]

  okay that was literally verbatim the [TS]

  question how in the name of Zeus's [TS]

  butthole did you get that much context [TS]

  from that little tank maybe you don't [TS]

  have that context but if you had [TS]

  listened to tons of podcasts with me and [TS]

  Marlon and knew and remembered the [TS]

  origins of this whole gag you would have [TS]

  the same context as I do that's why I [TS]

  don't like the question I'm I'm [TS]

  stupefied right now I I understand the [TS]

  words coming out of your mouth but how [TS]

  you concluded from how would you define [TS]

  close to the metal to non nerds how how [TS]

  did you come to that conclusion because [TS]

  the only reason they're staying close to [TS]

  the metal is because like I mean again [TS]

  I'm assuming you're right but but like [TS]

  it's too much a coincidence Marco who [TS]

  actually listens to podcasts that [TS]

  Marilyn is on and I am on and probably [TS]

  remembers this more better than most of [TS]

  us you know what I'm talking about right [TS]

  I don't think so well forget it forget [TS]

  aside whether you like the question you [TS]

  know that you know the origin supposed [TS]

  to the metal thing right in computer [TS]

  terms I know what it means I'm not sure [TS]

  you don't you don't know that John [TS]

  Murrell and podcast access of this maybe [TS]

  I've forgotten it I mean well maybe it's [TS]

  just me but anyway that was that was my [TS]

  interpretation and my guess is that the [TS]

  person asking this question also knows [TS]

  what I'm talking about [TS]

  even if nobody else does I bet you that [TS]

  you are 100% wrong on this anyway yeah [TS]

  you can see why I didn't want to try to [TS]

  type that so can we answer this without [TS]

  all of that completely bananas you're [TS]

  abstaining from this no no listen listen [TS]

  if you why what is the non John Merlin [TS]

  related context for asking this question [TS]

  do you think close to the metal is a [TS]

  phrase that needs to be explained [TS]

  to other people does it come up in [TS]

  conversation why would anyone why would [TS]

  anyone say this and be disappointed that [TS]

  someone didn't understand it to them and [TS]

  yet not know how to explain it to them [TS]

  like what why is this a legit question [TS]

  in any way independent of any other [TS]

  stuff who knows why are you judging [TS]

  whether or not Jonathan bowling has used [TS]

  the phrase close to the metal in [TS]

  conversation that's not up to you you're [TS]

  not the boss of him it's not a like you [TS]

  could say how would you define you know [TS]

  like a slippery is a banana peel to non [TS]

  nerds do you have a favorite analogy [TS]

  used to explain it's like that's not [TS]

  gonna calm a phrase you know yes but I [TS]

  peels are slippery but as slippery as a [TS]

  banana peel is not a thing that people [TS]

  say so why would I have to explain to [TS]

  you how I explain to other people it [TS]

  just doesn't come up like it's arbitrary [TS]

  to arbitrary have you ever like had to [TS]

  explain to anyone said that anyone win [TS]

  I'm sure I have oh my god I'm sure I [TS]

  have at some point because there's a big [TS]

  difference to answer the question see [TS]

  I'm gonna sneak the answer in here [TS]

  there's no way this is the show this is [TS]

  the chat room this is what the quality [TS]

  you get for there is no way this makes [TS]

  the Edit you get fish and you get this [TS]

  the answer to the question which [TS]

  Jonathan will never hear is that [TS]

  something he already knows no he does [TS]

  maybe he does but you just know how to [TS]

  describe it in a simple way all right [TS]

  oh my god I'm so angry you right now [TS]

  because you are putting this poor man in [TS]

  a context that I don't think you're [TS]

  putting him in a box John you're putting [TS]

  them in a box anyway the answer the [TS]

  question is there there my answer the [TS]

  question which John will then refute and [TS]

  be angry with is that there are many [TS]

  different kinds of computer languages [TS]

  programming languages and some of them [TS]

  are literal direct translations to ones [TS]

  and zeros that are run on the CPU in [TS]

  question and most of them are not and as [TS]

  you get more and more current most of [TS]

  these languages have many more [TS]

  abstractions that they're built upon [TS]

  that get you further and further and [TS]

  further away from from ones and zeros [TS]

  that are run on the CPU and so when [TS]

  you're close to the metal you're doing [TS]

  something that is either directly [TS]

  translatable to ones and zeros or as [TS]

  very very very close to directly [TS]

  translatable as opposed to something [TS]

  like say Swift or PHP or certainly Perl [TS]

  which is built on so many abstractions [TS]

  it's almost hilarious that any of this [TS]

  actually works and so you know the stuff [TS]

  that the three of us work in day to day [TS]

  is nowhere close to the metal there are [TS]

  abstractions upon abstractions upon [TS]

  abstraction upon abstraction xand and so [TS]

  many it's a it's a layer cake just just [TS]

  layers all the way down and thus that's [TS]

  what when somebody says close to the [TS]

  metal it means you're working in a snit [TS]

  in a situation where you are probably [TS]

  using a tool chain that is very [TS]

  difficult to work in because you're [TS]

  talking you it's more about talking the [TS]

  computers language than it is talking [TS]

  about human language you know and you [TS]

  said when you said I bet John's gonna [TS]

  have complaints about my description I'm [TS]

  thinking to myself oh sure it'll be fine [TS]

  but then as you got further into [TS]

  isolation I was like you know what I [TS]

  would explain that differently so here [TS]

  we go you're right of course [TS]

  why would you even think that wouldn't [TS]

  have it you know I'm not gonna have any [TS]

  objections your explanation but then [TS]

  it's like no no I wouldn't say it that [TS]

  way no no anyway do you know you exactly [TS]

  so how would you explain it then King [TS]

  already knows what it means no it [TS]

  doesn't need to explain it to non nerds [TS]

  that's it I'm tweeting right now I'm [TS]

  tweeting it Jonathan bowling and we're [TS]

  gonna fly this right this says sleep it [TS]

  probably is but how do you what if [TS]

  Jonathan balling legit needs an [TS]

  explanation he mail me and I will email [TS]

  him if you can give me a a so handsome [TS]

  you're gonna complain about my [TS]

  explanation and you're not even going to [TS]

  actually give your own explanation [TS]

  it's hot it's hard to explain but I [TS]

  don't think it's pronounced siracusa I [TS]

  don't think Marco you're like one of the [TS]

  only few people in the world to actually [TS]

  pronounce my last name correctly and I [TS]

  enjoy that hard so really you're not [TS]

  gonna answer the question no it's fine [TS]

  like it was its nitpicking like I'm what [TS]

  you said is perfectly adequate and I [TS]

  would have to know why does [TS]

  don't I would never say close to the [TS]

  metal to non nerds and expect them to [TS]

  understand what I was saying like well I [TS]

  use jargon techno jargon was someone who [TS]

  you know is not going to understand it [TS]

  like you think I'm throwing a destiny [TS]

  jargon and regular conversations people [TS]

  expect them to follow along no would we [TS]

  even know oh my gosh I cannot believe [TS]

  here you're gonna complain and moan [TS]

  about my about my description and then [TS]

  not actually I said you were right I [TS]

  said you were right and that I thought I [TS]

  would wouldn't have any objections to it [TS]

  but in the end I did this is [TS]

  preposterous I'm so angry at you right [TS]

  now anyway the main reason why this [TS]

  shouldn't go in the show is stealing of [TS]

  three questions who define that as the [TS]

  rule go find that recording of like how [TS]

  many think we should have one two or [TS]

  three we're like oh three questions [TS]

  sounds good and that's what we've been [TS]

  doing ever since we'll make it a topic [TS]

  well yeah that's the first time close to [TS]

  the metal topic technically it's [TS]

  follow-up because it was discussing [TS]

  another podcast before right I mean it [TS]

  couldn't possibly be the same people who [TS]

  invented ask podcast right I don't [TS]

  it was track of all the micro is how do [TS]

  you so many of them and they change name [TS]

  so much not upgrade which has never [TS]

  changed names yeah it's only ever been [TS]

  up the Dugga Dugga was from like three [TS]

  mike early shows ago right yes they do [TS]

  it and do by Friday don't why are you [TS]

  doing it and do by Friday because an [TS]

  earlier show they're imitating an [TS]

  earlier show which one feel like I'm [TS]

  what this is the verbal version of like [TS]

  looking in your brain and seeing the [TS]

  world's most intricate conspiracy theory [TS]

  with the verbal version of like that [TS]

  t-shirt that says Helvetica printed in [TS]

  Comic Sans someone says the prompt does [TS]

  that bring it about to you guys the [TS]

  prompt remember the Duggar dog on the [TS]

  prompt I don't know a dog on that they [TS]

  have the recording of the word follow up [TS]

  with the weird [TS]

  yeah and it had a little musical like [TS]

  trill in front of it follow no it's like [TS]

  I said it's like a space laser sound [TS]

  effect it sounds awful actually I think [TS]

  that's what they're imitating undo by [TS]

  Friday we know like like TV news like [TS]

  yes like brick breaking news it's the [TS]

  thing I thought I thought what they were [TS]

  doing was imitating the prompt certainly [TS]

  the job where you are really voiced word [TS]

  follow-up is from the prop right yes [TS]

  that is from the prompt and so I was [TS]

  tying those two together hold on my bad [TS]

  I I recalled that build musically is a [TS]

  trail and I thought that's what they [TS]

  were imitating this slowly warp until [TS]

  abyss Dig Dug [TS]

  wow I I don't even know where to go from [TS]

  here this this is we have just created a [TS]

  verbal in in oral trainwreck references [TS]

  all the way down and anything that gets [TS]

  filtered through Merlin slowly mutates [TS]

  until it's unrecognizable [TS]

  so what can you do we are sponsored this [TS]

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  rethink what your money can do I don't [TS]

  have a chi charger but I hear rumors [TS]

  that one or two of us do so can one of [TS]

  you with a Cheeto charger tell me if [TS]

  they're any good worth buying so I got [TS]

  my first Chi Chargers this past week and [TS]

  so I have the Mophie one that the Apple [TS]

  Store sells because one of the only ones [TS]

  that Apple has ever officially [TS]

  acknowledged its existence of and I have [TS]

  the what is this let me see the ravpower [TS]

  stand up one that's it looks like it [TS]

  props it up so it can like stand up on [TS]

  your desk it's like this black thing [TS]

  this has fast charge in the middle of it [TS]

  for some reason ref power seems to be a [TS]

  reasonable brand they seem like they're [TS]

  like pretty much on the level of anchor [TS]

  in terms of like power and charging and [TS]

  battery gear that is inexpensive and [TS]

  seems to be reasonably made so anyway [TS]

  and Mophie is very well regarded to [TS]

  their stuff I usually find their stuff a [TS]

  little bit pricey for what it is but [TS]

  it's good its well-made stuff so it's [TS]

  you know I can't complain too much [TS]

  anyway so the this is my first [TS]

  experience with any kind of wireless [TS]

  charging for phones I know and with with [TS]

  previous phones you could get cases that [TS]

  were basically Chi receivers and yeah [TS]

  and you know and and both even sells [TS]

  those actually a few other people do too [TS]

  but I have no experience with those all [TS]

  the reviews that said while I was [TS]

  charging is and not very good I think [TS]

  the only reason they were saying that is [TS]

  because it seems like Apple gave the [TS]

  Belkin charger to reviewers not the [TS]

  Mophie charger and the Belkin charger [TS]

  seems like it has I haven't tried it [TS]

  because everyone said it sucked but it [TS]

  seems like it has pretty significant [TS]

  problems with the phone [TS]

  vibrating off of it and also the the [TS]

  like correct target spot of where you [TS]

  have to put the phone being pretty small [TS]

  and it being very easy to put it on [TS]

  there thinking that you're charging it [TS]

  but it's actually slightly misaligned [TS]

  and so it doesn't charge I have not [TS]

  found this to be the case at all with [TS]

  either my ravpower stand up one or the [TS]

  Mophie circle pad thing and so let's I [TS]

  don't know these are called the Mophie [TS]

  discs so you know let's get that right [TS]

  of the way the and I don't know if the [TS]

  mochi one has multiple coils I know like [TS]

  one of the ways that the stand-up ones [TS]

  try to fix this problem is they'll have [TS]

  multiple coils in there and so if the [TS]

  phone is aligned with any of like three [TS]

  different coils it'll charge properly so [TS]

  you that way you could maybe have it a [TS]

  different orientation like some of the [TS]

  desk ones they support the phone being [TS]

  in landscape if you're like standing up [TS]

  to watch a movie or something look use a [TS]

  nice little touch these you have to have [TS]

  like a coil kind of down low for that [TS]

  and they also have one kind of up high [TS]

  in the middle so the phone can be [TS]

  standing up in different heights anyway [TS]

  so the the experience of using these [TS]

  things I gotta say these are these are [TS]

  amazing these are awesome [TS]

  like and for a number of reasons now [TS]

  they're not perfect they there are a [TS]

  couple of downsides as mentioned you do [TS]

  have to actually land it somewhere near [TS]

  the charging spot in practice I have [TS]

  found this to not be a problem at all [TS]

  with these two chargers maybe there's [TS]

  other ones that are terrible sounds like [TS]

  there are but with these two charges the [TS]

  only experience with so far they seem [TS]

  great the other there's other slight [TS]

  problems like the flat ones obviously [TS]

  it's like having the phone flat on the [TS]

  desk for face ID purposes so you're [TS]

  probably not gonna have face ID work [TS]

  with it lying on the desk flat the stand [TS]

  of Brad power one that I have in my desk [TS]

  though does actually work and it will [TS]

  unlock the city with it in the stand so [TS]

  this probably has to do with angle and [TS]

  distance and everything else but just so [TS]

  you know that's a thing that can work so [TS]

  I'm very happy with that [TS]

  and the other main downside to be aware [TS]

  of these things is that they charge [TS]

  fairly slowly compared to high wattage [TS]

  power bricks it seems like most of them [TS]

  charge at five watts some of them will [TS]

  charge at 7.5 watts on [TS]

  11.2 beta I don't know how many of them [TS]

  will do that but at least the Mophie one [TS]

  will and that's roughly that that's like [TS]

  that's like roughly two-thirds of the [TS]

  speed that you'd get out of and I out of [TS]

  if you use an iPad power brick or any [TS]

  kind of 2.4 amp charger so it's not [TS]

  quite as fast it's closer to the speed [TS]

  of the little crappy power brick that [TS]

  come to the iPhone which for many [TS]

  purposes is totally fine so if you're [TS]

  charging overnight like next on a [TS]

  bedside table it's totally fine and let [TS]

  me tell you being able like every night [TS]

  for the last I don't know decade I have [TS]

  upon going to bed placed my phone in [TS]

  some kind of dock or charger on my [TS]

  nightstand to charge overnight I have a [TS]

  feeling this is a pretty common use case [TS]

  pretty much everyone does something like [TS]

  this and I've gone through so many [TS]

  different docks and you know good and [TS]

  bad and lots of different ones there [TS]

  there used to be zero good docks now [TS]

  there's lots of good docks are our [TS]

  friends estudio neat make one the [TS]

  material dock that's wonderful even has [TS]

  an Apple watch option I have one of [TS]

  those on my desk it's it's great that's [TS]

  how I keep my watch charged yet sides [TS]

  table is one of their material docks [TS]

  with my phone and my watch and and we're [TS]

  it not for this cheese stuff I would [TS]

  probably use that freakin forever but [TS]

  now that she is a thing it's got me it's [TS]

  got my eye wandering yeah and there's [TS]

  there's been all sorts of efforts over [TS]

  the years to to make docks that were [TS]

  easy to lift the phone out of one handed [TS]

  I believe elevation dock kind of made [TS]

  this famous then right after elevation [TS]

  dock launched the 30-pin connector was [TS]

  replaced by lightning and it really [TS]

  screwed them over for a while and they [TS]

  had various attempts to fix that for a [TS]

  while their current the way most dock [TS]

  seem to fix this is to just have one of [TS]

  those micro suction pads on the bottom [TS]

  that just sticks it really hard to with [TS]

  the surface it's on so that way you can [TS]

  just pull the phone out and and have the [TS]

  dock stay where it is so you know then [TS]

  there's lots you know the and I have the [TS]

  new elevation talked to it's also really [TS]

  nice what's especially nice about it is [TS]

  that you can adjust the alignment and [TS]

  the thickness of its charging things [TS]

  really quickly and easily with little [TS]

  knobs on it so if you if you frequently [TS]

  change whether your phone has a case or [TS]

  not or you change between two different [TS]

  thicknesses of [TS]

  cases or something like that the [TS]

  elevation doc is great for that but once [TS]

  you get to cheat charging once you try a [TS]

  wireless charging pad I have a feeling [TS]

  you're gonna not want to ever use a doc [TS]

  again because it is so different it is [TS]

  so much better rather than having to [TS]

  align your phone into a doc no matter [TS]

  how good that doc is the matter how nice [TS]

  it's designed and then having to pull [TS]

  your phone out of that dock in the [TS]

  morning rather than doing that to just [TS]

  lay it on a pad and have and it lights [TS]

  up to confirm that it's charging like [TS]

  that's awesome and then when you want [TS]

  paper phone in and you just reach over [TS]

  and pick it up it's incredibly it's it's [TS]

  so much lower friction it's so much both [TS]

  physically and and you know [TS]

  metaphorically it's so much nicer that [TS]

  it really is like a behavior changer [TS]

  similarly the one on my desk this is [TS]

  nice I was reminded by it by somebody on [TS]

  Twitter the other day I'm sorry I forget [TS]

  who right now I don't I can't find it [TS]

  quickly but I didn't realize that Wi-Fi [TS]

  iOS app debugging had shipped and is a [TS]

  thing we can now do in Xcode now I still [TS]

  haven't tried it I knew I did know it [TS]

  was the thing but I still have not tried [TS]

  it myself so the great thing is so all [TS]

  you do is you go is so so basically the [TS]

  reason why I was I've always have [TS]

  lightning cables on my desk is that as [TS]

  an iOS developer you frequently need to [TS]

  from Xcode do a build and run where you [TS]

  are building your code that you just [TS]

  wrote and your deploy it onto your [TS]

  iPhone or iPad and you need to test it [TS]

  right of the device to do this before [TS]

  this fall you had to use a cable you had [TS]

  to be plugged in via USB and a lightning [TS]

  cable and it helpfully also charged the [TS]

  phone which was nice during listen [TS]

  during this time but you had to do that [TS]

  with Xcode 9 that came out this fall you [TS]

  can now do Wi-Fi built and run and Wi-Fi [TS]

  debugging and all you do is you go into [TS]

  the organizer pane and going to go to a [TS]

  device and there's a little checkbox at [TS]

  the top that says something like access [TS]

  via network and then it's just always [TS]

  available it doesn't have to be [TS]

  connected via USB anymore and so this is [TS]

  a perfect combination with a Qi charging [TS]

  device because you can have your phone [TS]

  sitting there charging when you're not [TS]

  running and then when you build and run [TS]

  you can just pick it up and hold it in [TS]

  your hand and you're running and [TS]

  debugging your code it's glorious it is [TS]

  so [TS]

  nice and it works as far as I can tell [TS]

  it there doesn't seem to be any [TS]

  difference in performance everything [TS]

  seems to work just fine it isn't like [TS]

  horribly slow or anything in my initial [TS]

  testing and use so far it's great so [TS]

  anyway so now on my desk I I lose a big [TS]

  reason to plug my phone in or a big [TS]

  reason why I would need to plug my phone [TS]

  and so that's why this ramp our thing is [TS]

  great to have in my desk because here's [TS]

  the phone standing up it's charging much [TS]

  of the time and when I want when I want [TS]

  to build and run I can just pick it up [TS]

  and it's glorious and I don't think we [TS]

  think about these chargers is that there [TS]

  are tons of them in all different shapes [TS]

  and sizes and looks and while many of [TS]

  them most of them I would say are these [TS]

  hideous plastic things with fast charge [TS]

  written in capital letters on them [TS]

  somewhere for no reason [TS]

  some of them are decent looking and [TS]

  they're all really inexpensive like you [TS]

  can get tons of them because Apple [TS]

  didn't invent Qi charging it's been [TS]

  around for some time and Android phones [TS]

  have supported it for some time and so [TS]

  there's a whole ecosystem out there of [TS]

  existing Qi products that are all pretty [TS]

  functional you know they're pretty ugly [TS]

  most of them but they're pretty [TS]

  functional and they're so cheap and I [TS]

  even IKEA makes a lot of pretty decent [TS]

  looking ones and and because they're so [TS]

  plentiful and inexpensive you can afford [TS]

  to put these pretty much all over the [TS]

  place like I already have the one next [TS]

  to my bed which is amazing I have the [TS]

  one on my desk which is incredibly [TS]

  useful and amazing I've ordered a few [TS]

  more to have like on the kitchen counter [TS]

  on the end table next to the couch [TS]

  because like when we watch TV I often [TS]

  will put my phone on that table well [TS]

  might as well have a pad there right [TS]

  like you know I mean I might confuse it [TS]

  for a co store sometimes but it's only [TS]

  if it's only 18 bucks that's not that [TS]

  bad so like it's really it is a pretty [TS]

  big game-changer it also brings another [TS]

  big advantage that you can charge the [TS]

  phone while you have something plugged [TS]

  into the Lightning port like maybe [TS]

  headphones because a very very common [TS]

  need now that I see how cheat charging [TS]

  actually works and and this is I'm sorry [TS]

  Android people is this is like the Opera [TS]

  did at first people [TS]

  like the edger people just screaming [TS]

  right now like we know we've had this [TS]

  forever like you we you know you guys [TS]

  are living in the past forever like I [TS]

  know how frustrating this must be for [TS]

  you Android people I'm sorry but this is [TS]

  new to us it's so whatever you were [TS]

  talking about six years ago when you and [TS]

  opera did it together we are now [TS]

  enjoying this now so let us have this [TS]

  moment but it's so clear to me now that [TS]

  the iPhone 7 should never have been the [TS]

  phone to remove the headphone jack the [TS]

  10 and the eights [TS]

  should have been because that's [TS]

  interesting once you have wireless [TS]

  charging abilities one of the biggest [TS]

  annoyances about the removal of the [TS]

  headphone jack is you can't charge the [TS]

  phone at the same time you have [TS]

  headphones plugged in you know there are [TS]

  other annoyances like having that dongle [TS]

  for other headphones but the fact is [TS]

  most people use the earbuds that come [TS]

  with it and so or they use bluetooth [TS]

  headphones honestly so you know it's [TS]

  it's less intrusive as long as you can [TS]

  use that lightning port but you can't [TS]

  but so many people listen their phone [TS]

  like all day at work because there were [TS]

  computer doesn't have any you know they [TS]

  can't install apps on it or something so [TS]

  they use their phone to play Spotify or [TS]

  whatever it's so common for people to [TS]

  want to listen and charge all day long [TS]

  and with the iPhone 7 they couldn't do [TS]

  that without buying some kind of [TS]

  expensive dongle or adapter or series of [TS]

  adapters and dongles and it was horrible [TS]

  whereas it's I think it's a much more [TS]

  defensible position to have remove the [TS]

  headphone jack when introducing Qi [TS]

  charging because you can just get a $15 [TS]

  disc and put it on your desk and that [TS]

  problem goes away so a little side note [TS]

  there but overall this is really great [TS]

  and the charging speed thing that is [TS]

  indeed a problem you know it is [TS]

  noticeably slower than then like an iPad [TS]

  brick through a wire or you know or like [TS]

  a USB C power brick through a wire but [TS]

  when you when you can afford and when [TS]

  you can practically and when it's low [TS]

  friction enough to put these little [TS]

  charging pads all over the place the [TS]

  charging speed becomes less important [TS]

  because the battery is probably more [TS]

  charged most of the time like you don't [TS]

  have to go from 15 percent to [TS]

  80% in a half hour because you're [TS]

  probably not dropping the battery down [TS]

  that load most of the time and for the [TS]

  very few occasions that you actually [TS]

  need very fast charging you can plug it [TS]

  in somewhere for that you know you can [TS]

  cable it for that the other benefits of [TS]

  this is that all these all these times [TS]

  every single night and throughout the [TS]

  day that I'm not plugging in a lightning [TS]

  cable over and over again plugging it in [TS]

  unplugging it putting in an amount of [TS]

  dock I'm saving tons of wear and tear on [TS]

  the Lightning connector and on the bed [TS]

  on the outside edge of the bottom of the [TS]

  phone like my iPhone 7 I had to I had to [TS]

  get my iphone 7 replaced after about six [TS]

  months because the Lightning connector [TS]

  broke like it just through regular use [TS]

  it just like started frying cables and [TS]

  then eventually just wouldn't charge [TS]

  because I had probably some kind of [TS]

  damage to pins or something in there who [TS]

  knows and and that from what I learn at [TS]

  the time that was not that uncommon of a [TS]

  problem to have and so with this I am [TS]

  I'm turning the Lightning port from [TS]

  something that I plug something into you [TS]

  know two to eight times a day probably [TS]

  on average into something that on some [TS]

  days I'll never use at all and so that's [TS]

  probably gonna be great for long term [TS]

  reliability of the port and of the phone [TS]

  so to me this is pretty much all wins [TS]

  I don't what do you guys think so what [TS]

  room do you think there is for apples [TS]

  air power Matt to come into this market [TS]

  and give you something that you feel [TS]

  like you're not getting like what like [TS]

  is there place for Apple innovation here [TS]

  or is like no matter what Apple comes [TS]

  out with you're just gonna keep [TS]

  surveying the field of cheap Android [TS]

  focused chargers and just buy like 50 of [TS]

  em and spread them around your house I [TS]

  feel like if you have like the full [TS]

  Apple combo of air pods [TS]

  Apple watch and phone that becomes more [TS]

  compelling for the air Powermat because [TS]

  right now the air pods and the watch are [TS]

  not Qi compatible you can't just put [TS]

  them on a cheap desk and have them [TS]

  charge they are they seem to be their [TS]

  own little thing that only the air [TS]

  Powermat will support so if you have all [TS]

  the all the current Apple stuff you get [TS]

  the the new air pods or the new case for [TS]

  your old air pods you get the Apple [TS]

  watch series 3 so it has whatever this [TS]

  thing is in it and you have the iPhone 8 [TS]

  or 10 [TS]

  then you can go by the air power mat [TS]

  whenever it comes out I honestly I'm [TS]

  kind of wondering where it is like I [TS]

  kind of it seems kind of weird for them [TS]

  not to release it when they release [TS]

  their sheet charging phones but oh well [TS]

  that I can see being popular for the [TS]

  people who are all in on new Apple gear [TS]

  and want to charge it all at once if it [TS]

  isn't too big or heavy that could also [TS]

  be really nice to bring when you're [TS]

  traveling if you if you travel with all [TS]

  those Apple products that could be nice [TS]

  to then not have to travel with it many [TS]

  chargers or cables but ultimately I have [TS]

  a feeling it's going to be very [TS]

  expensive who knows it where it is it [TS]

  isn't out yet and you know III think I [TS]

  think it's gonna be a totally good [TS]

  product probably that it's very likely [TS]

  to be a good product but I think it's [TS]

  going to be unlikely to be very [TS]

  compelling unless you are one of those [TS]

  Apple super power users with all the new [TS]

  hardware you know see also home pod by [TS]

  the way like I think Bloods gonna have [TS]

  the exact same problem and where is that [TS]

  another good question [TS]

  but so you've got all that hardware but [TS]

  I'm thinking that you're not gonna get [TS]

  it because you want your phone to charge [TS]

  while you're wirelessly debugging it [TS]

  well FaceTime can see you and the air [TS]

  Powermat makes everything lay flat on [TS]

  the table so even though you have you [TS]

  know you could get that you have air [TS]

  pods and you could get the new case for [TS]

  it for 60 whatever bucks if you wanted [TS]

  and you have an Apple watch even though [TS]

  you hardly ever wear it and you have a [TS]

  phone but I don't think you want all [TS]

  three of those things on the same mat [TS]

  even on your nightstand I would imagine [TS]

  that you don't have your ear pods your [TS]

  watch and your phone all charging on [TS]

  your nightstand because that's getting [TS]

  pretty crowded right yeah - and isn't [TS]

  big enough for all those things and you [TS]

  know for me like my personal use here is [TS]

  weird I don't use the air pods to fuse [TS]

  the air pods I had to give her mine [TS]

  because they don't they make my ears [TS]

  hurt I know I really I wish I could wear [TS]

  them because they're so good but I can't [TS]

  so I don't have air pods that's one [TS]

  thing out and in the Apple watch I do [TS]

  wear it frequently just not for long [TS]

  durations I wear it almost every day for [TS]

  dog walks and foremost for much of the [TS]

  morning but then I take it off when I [TS]

  when I like you know showering a dress [TS]

  for the day after [TS]

  dog walking school drop-off and [TS]

  everything else in any way so the Apple [TS]

  watch those on my desk not upstairs but [TS]

  this is this is like this is I get this [TS]

  is a very unusual setup that I have here [TS]

  I think most people who own the Apple [TS]

  watch probably wear it every day where [TS]

  most days so they might have different [TS]

  needs than me but I'm guessing the air [TS]

  power mats probably at a cost like one [TS]

  to two hundred dollars I think it was [TS]

  cortex Mike and gray brought up the the [TS]

  problem of if you have like one of those [TS]

  bands that doesn't let your watch lay [TS]

  flat right like a link that like [TS]

  bracelet or something then I guess you [TS]

  also can't use the air power Mac because [TS]

  you can't get your watch the charging [TS]

  part of your watch on the bottom to [TS]

  contact with the pad yep and that you [TS]

  know what mostly what I'm getting at [TS]

  with the air power mat which seems like [TS]

  a good solution for like you know the [TS]

  fat part of the curve of like hey you're [TS]

  all and like you said you buy you got a [TS]

  lot of Apple stuff and this will charged [TS]

  all at once and isn't that convenient [TS]

  but I don't envision Apple selling 17 [TS]

  different charging minutes like they've [TS]

  just got the one that they announced and [TS]

  maybe there'll be a little bit of [TS]

  variety on the line but nothing will [TS]

  ever compare to the ecosystem of Qi [TS]

  charging stuff that's out there and this [TS]

  is the type of thing charging devices [TS]

  even though there is a fat part of the [TS]

  curve well most people charge things [TS]

  like this there are long tails on both [TS]

  sides all sorts of different scenarios [TS]

  developers who want the thing upright [TS]

  well the one I'm thinking of is like for [TS]

  me families with lots of devices we [TS]

  recently we've had lots of problems for [TS]

  you know where to charge all our devices [TS]

  and as our kids got older and have more [TS]

  and more devices that they actually care [TS]

  about you we have a problem of where you [TS]

  charge all these things and the current [TS]

  solution we're using it is really the [TS]

  only one that physically fits in the [TS]

  space we have allotted for wave like a [TS]

  sideboard table and we have let's see we [TS]

  all have iPads and we all have something [TS]

  that's phone shaped and some of us have [TS]

  watches right there is no room for all [TS]

  those things to be laying on pads the [TS]

  pad would have to be like 3 feet by 5 [TS]

  feet to fit all those iOS devices in the [TS]

  crazy jigsaw puzzle [TS]

  right so even if Apple made like a [TS]

  family pad where you can put all your [TS]

  stuff good luck finding a place to put [TS]

  four iPads for iPhones and two watches [TS]

  down on a pad like are you gonna [TS]

  dedicate an entire piece of furniture to [TS]

  this it's just not efficient so we have [TS]

  one of those things that like lets you [TS]

  put them like books in a shelf like [TS]

  vertically you know so they're all sort [TS]

  of like lined up with each other and you [TS]

  know you plug in lightning cables in the [TS]

  back of them so it's like this big this [TS]

  big it's not even that big it's like [TS]

  nine inch by nine inch square with slots [TS]

  and you just put the iPads or the phones [TS]

  in the slots and you connect the [TS]

  lightning cables from the side and we [TS]

  can actually fit like three iPads and [TS]

  four phones and no watches unfortunately [TS]

  cousin do watches into a fairly small [TS]

  amount of space these extremes like I [TS]

  always want to have my phone upright and [TS]

  facing me so I can tell you I don't [TS]

  often I'm doing an iOS development or I [TS]

  have a family of you know many people [TS]

  with many devices and I need a place [TS]

  where they can charge all of them every [TS]

  day and not you know cover the surface [TS]

  of some desk with either a giant pad or [TS]

  a rat's nest of wires or both apples [TS]

  never gonna address those needs they're [TS]

  gonna make one or two pads just like [TS]

  they make one or two docks and that'll [TS]

  be that so despite whatever advantages [TS]

  Apple may have all you know the Apple [TS]

  pad charges faster the Apple pad can [TS]

  charge your watch you have a pad is less [TS]

  finicky about finding all your devices [TS]

  it's never going to be the go-to [TS]

  recommendation I think because the first [TS]

  question will be how many devices do you [TS]

  want to charge and where do you want [TS]

  them to charge and what orientation do [TS]

  you want them to charge and pads in [TS]

  general will never be the solution to [TS]

  lots of devices if they require any [TS]

  device that charges on to lay flat I [TS]

  mean imagine if you had a family of four [TS]

  people all with 12 49 inch iPad it's [TS]

  like now you're getting into like a [TS]

  coffee table just you want the Apple [TS]

  surface yeah you but you want them to be [TS]

  vertical in for vertical stuff you need [TS]

  you know something like the I was for [TS]

  the other company started by the guy who [TS]

  did on live Steve Perlman or whatever [TS]

  the wireless power delivery but why for [TS]

  me no are you so yeah artemus piece oh [TS]

  yeah something like that where you could [TS]

  actually have them [TS]

  like books in the shelf and have them [TS]

  all wirelessly charge but we're not [TS]

  there yet [TS]

  so anyway I'm I'm intrigued by what you [TS]

  described marker like the you know the [TS]

  the sort of described as crossing a [TS]

  threshold where like yeah it's only [TS]

  slightly less annoying to plug in but [TS]

  you crossed over some threshold and it's [TS]

  like you're freed up like from it just [TS]

  feels so different you never want to [TS]

  like line up a little thing with the [TS]

  hole and again [TS]

  and so I'm actually kind of interested [TS]

  in I'm suing my next one we'll have [TS]

  wireless charging and I'll think about [TS]

  you know what do I want a pad for my [TS]

  nightstand do I want a little up right [TS]

  thing for my desk go on both because [TS]

  they're only 20 bucks each maybe I'll [TS]

  both that's I feel like that's the power [TS]

  of this ecosystem is that because there [TS]

  are so many options and most of them [TS]

  cost pretty little you can just get a [TS]

  lot of them and they're probably gonna [TS]

  last a while because you're not having [TS]

  some connector that's getting plugged in [TS]

  unplug all the time like so like the the [TS]

  wear and tear on these is probably gonna [TS]

  be fairly minimal I'm guessing this is [TS]

  gonna last multiple phones and maybe [TS]

  down the road it won't be the fastest [TS]

  charging method I mean it isn't today [TS]

  even so I can you know maybe down the [TS]

  road that they'll develop higher wattage [TS]

  ones and you'll maybe you'll want those [TS]

  in certain places but I bet having these [TS]

  around everywhere are still gonna be [TS]

  useful so I have a question for you [TS]

  Marco [TS]

  I know you've only tried a couple of [TS]

  these so far but I'm looking at IKEA and [TS]

  they have something that's spelled are a [TS]

  lot llen [TS]

  and it's an integrated wireless charger [TS]

  comma black it that's 12 dollars and it [TS]

  looks pretty cheap yeah exactly [TS]

  it looks to me to be quite a bit taller [TS]

  than the what was the good one that you [TS]

  said the movie one okay thank you [TS]

  it looks to be to me to be quite a bit [TS]

  taller than the Mophie but the Mophie is [TS]

  listed on Apple's website as $60 and [TS]

  this is 12 [TS]

  yeah like is what having never held the [TS]

  IKEA one from the best that you can do [TS]

  you feel like the Mophie one is you know [TS]

  like five times better than this is [TS]

  probably not I mean that you know you're [TS]

  paying the Mophie tax you're also paying [TS]

  the Apple certification tax you know [TS]

  like that like that's you're paying a [TS]

  lot of taxes on that they you know for [TS]

  for what it is but this this Ram power [TS]

  one I think was like 20 bucks something [TS]

  like that somewhere around 20 bucks [TS]

  and it's totally fine - it seems to [TS]

  charge the same speed for now I mean I [TS]

  don't think it's gonna get the 7.5 watt [TS]

  upgrade but I don't honestly really care [TS]

  that much because I don't need that much [TS]

  charging speed on my desk right at this [TS]

  moment but you know I feel like this is [TS]

  the kind of thing where like first of [TS]

  all because everything is so inexpensive [TS]

  you can afford to try a few of them and [TS]

  see what works best for you yeah but you [TS]

  know ultimately if you buy one and it's [TS]

  just kind of okay and you want to later [TS]

  down the road get a nicer one you're [TS]

  totally fine that's totally reasonable [TS]

  just move the one that you're not using [TS]

  anymore in one place move it somewhere [TS]

  else in the house and you'll figure out [TS]

  a way to use it like you'll it'll these [TS]

  things I haven't filled were gonna are [TS]

  gonna be as useful and long-lasting as [TS]

  like cables are you know like no one [TS]

  says like you know you shouldn't buy [TS]

  another lightning cable you'll never use [TS]

  it like you depending on maybe if you [TS]

  buy so many charges you might not use it [TS]

  but yeah but now it's like it's it's so [TS]

  useful that now I'm thinking like you [TS]

  know do I want to replace my little [TS]

  power bank battery with one that [TS]

  includes a cheap hat some of them do it [TS]

  like some of them can some of the [TS]

  batteries have Qi charging pads on them [TS]

  so you could place your phone on the [TS]

  battery and not even use a cable to [TS]

  charge it like this stuff like that like [TS]

  I'm now looking at looking at other [TS]

  things that like I just want like can I [TS]

  put one in my car can I get my car dock [TS]

  look at current I have some kind of like [TS]

  you know a little suction cup mount in [TS]

  the car so I can use Waze which is some [TS]

  point we're gonna talk about I had one [TS]

  of those and said can I get one of those [TS]

  that uses cheese so I don't have to plug [TS]

  the cable into that over and over again [TS]

  like it's the kind of thing once you get [TS]

  one of these things you see how awesome [TS]

  it is like all right where else can I [TS]

  take advantage of this like can I put [TS]

  one on the couch end table can I put one [TS]

  on my nightstand can I put one on my [TS]

  spouse's ID with a nice tang can I put [TS]

  one in the kitchen like you you kind of [TS]

  want them all over the place because [TS]

  it's so nice and then you're walking [TS]

  around with a pretty much always fully [TS]

  charged phone so that when you do need [TS]

  to leave the house or go somewhere do [TS]

  something crazy you can do that and your [TS]

  phone's not going to totally burn [TS]

  through like the last 20% of battery it [TS]

  has because you have been charging all [TS]

  day [TS]

  yeah so a couple of notes about this [TS]

  IKEA one first of all this apparently [TS]

  tops out at five watts second of all it [TS]

  may or may not include the wall brick [TS]

  and associated paraphernalia that you [TS]

  need to plug into the charger itself [TS]

  whereas the Mophie one apparently does [TS]

  come with all that also the both v1 as [TS]

  far as I can tell Marco does not have [TS]

  any illuminated lights or LEDs or [TS]

  anything when it's charging is that [TS]

  correct no it has a very small white LED [TS]

  in the base it doesn't it isn't like a [TS]

  ring shape on the the RAM power has like [TS]

  a small ring around it that glows softly [TS]

  white when you first put the phone on it [TS]

  does not stay lit it just like goes on [TS]

  for like a minute when you first put it [TS]

  on the the Mophie pad it has a single [TS]

  white LED shining from one dot on one [TS]

  side I think there's one side and I [TS]

  don't think that stays lit either [TS]

  either way if you're charging an iPhone [TS]

  you don't need any kind of lighting and [TS]

  I'm very hungry to just cover these up [TS]

  or tape or paint over them or something [TS]

  because sure the iPhone when you put it [TS]

  on the charger it you know the screen [TS]

  turns on for a minute and it goes blink [TS]

  you know it makes the the it plugged in [TS]

  sound and so like it's very obvious [TS]

  without any kind of indication from the [TS]

  charger itself the iPhone makes it [TS]

  obvious [TS]

  whether you are on it or not so and [TS]

  because one of the reasons why I like [TS]

  I'm I have not yet had any issues with [TS]

  like misalignment or misplacing it [TS]

  because it makes it very clear yeah and [TS]

  I brought this up because a friend of [TS]

  the show jelly in the chat room had had [TS]

  said that he has the IKEA one and it [TS]

  works fine but it has a pretty bright [TS]

  white light while while charging and I [TS]

  think it was the Belkin one had a very [TS]

  bright blue light while charging if I'm [TS]

  not mistaken there was a anchor makes [TS]

  one or that it has like this is ring of [TS]

  blue LEDs yeah it's a kind of thing like [TS]

  unfortunately like with muck with a lot [TS]

  of like you know cheap commodity [TS]

  hardware taste does not come frequently [TS]

  to these products it's it's very hard to [TS]

  find nice ones but we I'm sure like now [TS]

  that the iPhone supports this and now [TS]

  that a lot more high-end buyers are [TS]

  looking for these things there's gonna [TS]

  be a lot more coming out there's one [TS]

  this portly company called Grove made [TS]

  has has one that's coming soon that I've [TS]

  pre-ordered that is like a fancy like [TS]

  metal and cork [TS]

  one for like 80 bucks your days of $20 [TS]

  chief Chargers are coming to an end as [TS]

  the artisanal handcrafted ones start [TS]

  appearing [TS]

  well yeah but as we start buying them [TS]

  like the one on my desk that can be the [TS]

  you know the the one that says fast [TS]

  charge and big letters Minh has an LED [TS]

  in it but the one I put in the living [TS]

  room on the couch end table that's [TS]

  probably gonna have to be something [TS]

  nicer your whole end table should be the [TS]

  T charger just like every car like a [TS]

  little like center center console things [TS]

  they all have tea charters yeah yeah [TS]

  where you just check the phone into this [TS]

  little bin and they all charge yeah no [TS]

  that's that I want that no it's funny [TS]

  it's so IKEA actually sells one of the [TS]

  Ikea things is just like a charger [TS]

  that's almost shaped like a cup holder [TS]

  insert and and they and the idea is you [TS]

  take a hole saw and of like exactly that [TS]

  size and you can drill a hole into a [TS]

  desk or table or any desk or table you [TS]

  already have and just drop this in there [TS]

  and then that becomes a teacher which is [TS]

  kind of clever yeah and actually I'm [TS]

  glad you brought that up John because a [TS]

  friend of mine who has recently acquired [TS]

  an m2 has pointed out to me that between [TS]

  Wireless carplay and the fact that the [TS]

  m2 actually does have Qi charging in it [TS]

  he has like the perfect setup for for [TS]

  his car and I was curious Marco if [TS]

  you've looked at Tiff's car to see if [TS]

  she also has a charging pad within her [TS]

  car I'm pretty sure that was available [TS]

  as an option and we didn't select it [TS]

  because Lal iPhones don't support [TS]

  wireless charging we'll never need this [TS]

  just sing a video review of a car maybe [TS]

  you saw it to Casey of someone [TS]

  complaining that the little cubby where [TS]

  you chuck your phone it's like hard to [TS]

  get your phone in and out of there like [TS]

  they'd seem to do everything right hey [TS]

  you got Wireless carplay you got a t [TS]

  charging that when you get a new car [TS]

  wasn't that the Verge's iPhone 10 review [TS]

  with Neely anyway anyway the point is [TS]

  that like leave it to car makers to find [TS]

  a way to screw it up right like finally [TS]

  the dream you just get into your car and [TS]

  check your phone into like that's what [TS]

  people do with their phones now anyway [TS]

  for the most part is either they clip [TS]

  them in a little Clippy thing so they [TS]

  can see the navigation or they check it [TS]

  somewhere so they can be dangerous and [TS]

  see their text messages when they appear [TS]

  or stuff like that right or plug it into [TS]

  a charger like my wife has a like a wire [TS]

  coming out of the little center console [TS]

  you know aligning some things [TS]

  you can plug it in and you know charge [TS]

  while you drive your phone wouldn't it [TS]

  be great if you didn't have to plug that [TS]

  in but then car makers make the cubby in [TS]

  a weird place or awkward to get to or [TS]

  fiddly to get your phone in and out of [TS]

  or to place in it so that it actually [TS]

  stays on the pad and isn't like up on an [TS]

  angle and not actually contacting the [TS]

  pad but you know give them a few decades [TS]

  they'll figure it out oh well and one [TS]

  more thing to be careful of when you're [TS]

  looking at you chargers some of them [TS]

  have fans and this depending on your [TS]

  point of view one fans one of so and I'm [TS]

  not entirely clear yet from like Amazon [TS]

  reviews so there's you know these things [TS]

  support like the regular five watt [TS]

  charging rate and then the reason why [TS]

  some of them yell fast charger on them [TS]

  is because they support like a higher [TS]

  wattage thing for certain Android phones [TS]

  that have these varying fast charge [TS]

  standards as far as I know the iPhone [TS]

  does not support those fast charge [TS]

  standards but maybe in the future who [TS]

  knows anyway so I I'm not clear whether [TS]

  the fans usually only kick on during [TS]

  fast charging or whether they are on all [TS]

  the time or what like I don't know like [TS]

  he put an iPhone on there will it engage [TS]

  the fan I don't know some people like [TS]

  the fans because it keeps their phone [TS]

  cooler because when you fast charge with [TS]

  you ion batteries they get hotter so [TS]

  that's actually a thing that could be [TS]

  necessary I don't think an iPhone is [TS]

  going to draw enough power for you to [TS]

  need that especially if you're doing you [TS]

  know all-day trickle charging at 5 watts [TS]

  so I have elected to buy 0 models with [TS]

  fans and I intend to never buy one with [TS]

  a fan because that sounds like a [TS]

  terrible idea to have this already very [TS]

  inexpensive and tastelessly designed [TS]

  object let's throw a cheap fan in there [TS]

  and see how well that works out no [TS]

  thanks yeah real-time follow-up it was [TS]

  an m5 50 I in the Verge's iPhone 10 [TS]

  review additional real-time follow-up [TS]

  from our conversation before Jonathan [TS]

  bowling has clarified it was an honest [TS]

  question but I was betting something [TS]

  pretty funny might happen in the answers [TS]

  something funny would happen oh come on [TS]

  like that he knew that he knew the [TS]

  background it wasn't just like Oh try to [TS]

  defend yourself it would be a don't [TS]

  think about it [TS]

  this question can you tell me how you [TS]

  might explain to someone how to [TS]

  pronounce bezel this is an honest [TS]

  question now no connection to anything I [TS]

  just want to know like a toy I will not [TS]

  I will not I have a feeling the answer [TS]

  might be kind of funny no I will not [TS]

  allow this you are reading way too much [TS]

  into this and it isn't an idea the [TS]

  answer might be funny he just said it [TS]

  was known this question because we have [TS]

  no way to verify always telling a truth [TS]

  he went too far oh come now you are [TS]

  being absolutely preposterous I cannot [TS]

  believe I cannot believe you're hanging [TS]

  your hat on this I'm back to the back to [TS]

  the car on the verge review by the way [TS]

  the reason I remembered it is not your [TS]

  right now next five it was because it [TS]

  was I remember when they showed the [TS]

  badge and I said no case he's gonna be [TS]

  angry about this because it's the m5 50 [TS]

  I like what the hell is the m5 50 I is [TS]

  it an m5 50 I oh it's just the M Sport [TS]

  package and they named the thing and [TS]

  that's why I had to remembered it [TS]

  because that's BS at least we can all [TS]

  agree on that I cannot believe you're [TS]

  hanging your hat on this John you can't [TS]

  have anything I'm just explaining thanks [TS]

  to our sponsors this week betterment [TS]

  fracture and jams now and we will talk [TS]

  to you next week now the show is over [TS]

  they didn't even mean to begin as it was [TS]

  accidental accidental [TS]

  research Marco and Casey wouldn't let [TS]

  him cuz it was accidentally was [TS]

  accidental and you can find the show [TS]

  notes at ADP yl is s so that's Casey [TS]

  less and a RC own a RM ante Marco Arment [TS]

  as I are a Syracuse [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  are we still friends a little bit I [TS]

  don't want I don't like a question it's [TS]

  not it's not an invitation to discuss it [TS]

  on the show it's an invitation to not [TS]

  discuss it on the show I tried to not [TS]

  discuss it on the show explained and you [TS]

  just didn't like the explanation yeah [TS]

  many reasons it's not a fucking [TS]

  explanation oh you mean I explained it I [TS]

  told you I was on my iPad in one type I [TS]

  know that now I know that catching up on [TS]

  Twitter watching destiny videos it's [TS]

  important pre-show well yeah that's more [TS]

  important to your good friend please I [TS]

  was gonna talk to you on skype like 15 [TS]

  minutes that's all right if it makes you [TS]

  feel I was busy talking to Merlin okay [TS]

  mister close to the metal about if he [TS]

  makes me feel better I was fully [TS]

  prepared in I was Manning my battle [TS]

  stations to take marco to task about his [TS]

  his laptop article earlier today I know [TS]

  we just never got around to it so yeah [TS]

  really that was that was frustration [TS]

  with Marco that somehow ended up on your [TS]

  plate [TS]

  on your lap so my bad you're welcome no [TS]

  I I do still love both of you even [TS]

  though John you're killing me today [TS]

  like you just let it be I don't like the [TS]

  question but like I said I don't I the [TS]

  reason they didn't delete the question [TS]

  is because like I just pushed it down [TS]

  because I felt like I had three more [TS]

  better one you know the three though [TS]

  that is alright that's fair that's so [TS]

  and like I'm you know if we didn't if we [TS]

  need this question for next week or you [TS]

  want answer to you had an angle because [TS]

  it's very difficult to know what you [TS]

  know angle you might have an answer like [TS]

  often I put things in there because I [TS]

  have a specific kind of answer about it [TS]

  even though the question looks you know [TS]

  particularly simple anyway mhm no that's [TS]

  fair you did that's fair that's fair [TS]

  alright what else we can even delete it [TS]

  out [TS]

  well it's gonna make it in the show so [TS]

  of course I can delete it no I don't [TS]

  know I know sing oh it's gotta stand [TS]

  gotta stick the problem is you guys made [TS]

  it too good I was gonna cut it out and [TS]

  then you made it good you're welcome but [TS]

  it's gonna be like nonsense there's a [TS]

  lot of nonsense a lot of inside baseball [TS]

  that people don't care about isn't that [TS]

  our whole show no not the whole show [TS]

  it's it's the it's the podcast [TS]

  equivalent of talking about Skype like [TS]

  you know but he's gonna cut out the [TS]

  skywards oh yeah there's no way Scott's [TS]

  being in that cycle I know that is [TS]

  illegal [TS]