The Accidental Tech Podcast

242: These Arms Are Coming Off


  I I looked at the show notes for this [TS]

  week a lot of issues that I really don't [TS]

  care about cool though uh I might not [TS]

  have a lot to say this week well you can [TS]

  adjust it to be things you do care about [TS]

  the thing is the thing that that's in [TS]

  the show notes that I think that I don't [TS]

  care about the way that I expect to talk [TS]

  that we'll be talking about for a while [TS]

  is the echo and the thing with the echo [TS]

  is that I'm the one that doesn't care [TS]

  about it it's not like the world doesn't [TS]

  care about it you know what I mean like [TS]

  nobody cares about the Mac Pro except [TS]

  you two numbskulls [TS]

  but everyone cares about the about the [TS]

  echo so it's not one of those things [TS]

  like that like the Mac Pro that I that I [TS]

  would at least attempt you know to [TS]

  railroad you two and change the subject [TS]

  this one I know is worth talking about I [TS]

  just don't have anything to say I mean [TS]

  if it make you more interested we could [TS]

  talk about the new Google rectangles of [TS]

  whatever they launched uh yeah you know [TS]

  we should maybe make passing mention of [TS]

  that in fact I guess we can do it now [TS]

  because some new phones and laptops no [TS]

  one's gonna buy I didn't know about the [TS]

  laptops but I knew about the phones it [TS]

  was it's a Chromebook that no one's [TS]

  gonna buy because it's way too expensive [TS]

  just like their previous pixel book or [TS]

  whatever it was yeah so they also [TS]

  announced the pixel to I believe it is [TS]

  which is their rough equivalent I would [TS]

  say more equivalent to the iPhone eight [TS]

  than the iPhone ten uh what is the [TS]

  officially ATP stance on ten versus X [TS]

  are we are we ignoring the official [TS]

  ruling I'm assuming John I don't know [TS]

  why people are rebelling against us just [TS]

  say ten I don't like I did it for like [TS]

  decade and a half with Mac OS ten [TS]

  somehow now we've just lost that ability [TS]

  I'm gonna try really hard to just avoid [TS]

  saying it for a while because I don't I [TS]

  do not like that was called ten I really [TS]

  I really think it should have been [TS]

  called X if they were going to spell it [TS]

  like that and there are so many better [TS]

  reasons to call it X and the fact is the [TS]

  entire world is going to call it X like [TS]

  either you could go into an Apple store [TS]

  and ask people about this thing and not [TS]

  a single person there including the [TS]

  staff would say ten everybody calls it X [TS]

  so it's gonna be like this pedantic [TS]

  thing that Apple nerds are gonna be [TS]

  battling for the next year or more [TS]

  depending on how long this name is [TS]

  relevant and we're just going to be [TS]

  sitting is like it's ten [TS]

  don't you know it's done it like no no [TS]

  one knows everyone's going to say X like [TS]

  we we are we will we probably already [TS]

  have lost this battle on such a [TS]

  massively bigger scale than we ever were [TS]

  even trying to battle on Mac OS X or 10 [TS]

  and the fact is most people didn't ever [TS]

  really have to say OS 10 you know but [TS]

  everyone says the name of the iPhone and [TS]

  a lot more people have them than I've [TS]

  ever had Mac's so it's I think it would [TS]

  you know calling it the 10 was a bad [TS]

  move and also they're going to lose you [TS]

  know the public perception of this name [TS]

  if they haven't already [TS]

  so reguarly I don't think we're ever [TS]

  gonna convince John to have the show [TS]

  have an official position other than 10 [TS]

  however I will file a dissenting opinion [TS]

  that I believe it should be called X and [TS]

  I might occasionally call it X because [TS]

  that's what I called in my head and I'll [TS]

  try to say 10 around you guys just like [TS]

  you know I appreciate when people try to [TS]

  say on line instead of in line in front [TS]

  of New Yorkers but I don't think I'm [TS]

  gonna be able to do it I'm going to slip [TS]

  up and we're gonna have to be ok with [TS]

  that because the entire world is going [TS]

  to call it iPhone X I don't see how this [TS]

  is any different than Mac OS 10 except a [TS]

  rest scale the whole world called it X [TS]

  for the Mac OS 2 but that didn't stop [TS]

  everyone who knows the difference in the [TS]

  Mac community from saying 10 I think [TS]

  should be same way of course a slip-up [TS]

  every once in a while but like to take a [TS]

  contrary stance and to purposely say X [TS]

  instead that's silly and all the reasons [TS]

  everyone else is going to say X instead [TS]

  of 10 don't apply to us because we know [TS]

  how it's said well but it's a little [TS]

  different to because like it's when you [TS]

  like almost no one ever has to give the [TS]

  full name of the OS of their computer [TS]

  that they have we're at like but if [TS]

  there can if they were all called power [TS]

  bucks and like people would always say [TS]

  power book and we'd be like you know its [TS]

  power book like that that would be way [TS]

  more ridiculous seeming you don't have [TS]

  to correct people though like just [TS]

  because you say 10 doesn't mean you have [TS]

  to be the person who corrects other [TS]

  people right just oh we're just talking [TS]

  about is what will you say or try to say [TS]

  because obviously you slip up in sex [TS]

  whatever [TS]

  right that's it it doesn't mean when [TS]

  people say X you're gonna correct them [TS]

  or be obnoxious about it or whatever but [TS]

  it's just what about what we're gonna [TS]

  say and again I don't think this is we [TS]

  didn't have this discussion about Mac OS [TS]

  10 I heard who's gonna say X no we just [TS]

  we just salsa 10 and if you messed up [TS]

  and said X oh well but it has nothing to [TS]

  do with what other people say or whether [TS]

  you should correct them so I don't think [TS]

  there's a debate to be well but but Mac [TS]

  OS is not Mac OS is a terrible analogy [TS]

  for a couple of reasons number one it [TS]

  was established before most people came [TS]

  to the Mac and yes I know John he's been [TS]

  using the Mac since 1912 bla bla but for [TS]

  like Marco and I we came to the Mac when [TS]

  it was already clearly established and a [TS]

  couple versions in two OS 10 so there [TS]

  this train had already left the station [TS]

  but it was clearly established everyone [TS]

  said X the only people who said 10 was [TS]

  like Apple nerds it's a no said X [TS]

  because it was like it was literally [TS]

  never said there's nothing like you know [TS]

  it's like the like the the 10 [TS]

  commercials they just show the text they [TS]

  don't really have announced they're [TS]

  talking about it so it's the same [TS]

  situation anyway it'll be fine like just [TS]

  just say 10 you'll be fine [TS]

  well the other thing is like if you were [TS]

  communicating to somebody who thought [TS]

  that it was X if you say Mac OS 10 I [TS]

  think they can figure that out pretty [TS]

  easily if you say iPhone 10 to a person [TS]

  who thinks it's iPhone X they're not [TS]

  going to know what you're talking about [TS]

  that'll be fine it's like gift jiff [TS]

  they'll figure it out I don't even start [TS]

  with that and like gif gif I feel like [TS]

  if you surrender to the other person's [TS]

  incorrect pronunciation that is you lose [TS]

  right so just you say it the right way [TS]

  and eventually they'll bend to your will [TS]

  yeah in a conversation it will I get in [TS]

  a gif gif conversation the first person [TS]

  to give and to use the other person's [TS]

  pronunciation loses I see what you're [TS]

  saying there but the other thing the [TS]

  other thing I was gonna say earlier you [TS]

  know other than then OS 10 having [TS]

  already been established by the time [TS]

  mark when I got there is that nobody [TS]

  really gives a crap about Mac OS I do [TS]

  you to do but nobody in the grand scheme [TS]

  of things gives crap about Mac OS [TS]

  whereas there are many many many many [TS]

  people who give a crap and many more [TS]

  people who give a crap about iPhones a [TS]

  crap about iPhone names believe me [TS]

  5c 5s success success [TS]

  only we know those names that people [TS]

  want to do they buy those phones it's [TS]

  like whatever I got the plus do you have [TS]

  the plus no everyone knows which iPhone [TS]

  they have they all know that believe [TS]

  don't know about that people knows like [TS]

  oh I have I have a successor like people [TS]

  know that I don't think they do they all [TS]

  look the same you know anyway it'll be [TS]

  fine just we'll just we should set an [TS]

  example for everybody else by saying ten [TS]

  I do not agree so anyway so so Google [TS]

  released the pixel to in pixels who [TS]

  Excel let me start by saying that I did [TS]

  not watch any of the keynote because I [TS]

  was in meetings and I all I knew was [TS]

  that this this thing happened and you [TS]

  know most of my co-workers that are [TS]

  local in my office are all Android users [TS]

  the co-workers on the mobile team and so [TS]

  I get a lot of like the the bleed from [TS]

  them being enthusiastic right like that [TS]

  you know just because they're [TS]

  enthusiastic I'm interested in what's [TS]

  going on and so you know I asked one of [TS]

  them you know what's the executive [TS]

  summary and they actually linked me to [TS]

  the verge which I am NOT the biggest [TS]

  verge fan but it's a pretty good [TS]

  executive summary of what what's going [TS]

  on here and I'll talk about in a minute [TS]

  but what was most fascinating and [TS]

  frustrating to me was that one of my [TS]

  co-workers one of the QA guys he's he's [TS]

  the iOS QA person but his personal phone [TS]

  is an Android phone and he sent me a [TS]

  screenshot of his reservation or order [TS]

  or whatever it was for his brand new [TS]

  pixel - he sent this to me like ten [TS]

  minutes after the keynote imagine that [TS]

  gentleman imagined moments after the [TS]

  keynote you could go to a company that [TS]

  actually understands that the Internet [TS]

  is a thing and you could order your [TS]

  device right then and there in the [TS]

  middle of the day like an adult instead [TS]

  of having to wake up like a friggin [TS]

  animal at 3:00 in the morning just throw [TS]

  money at Apple because we're idiots that [TS]

  just need it pulsing through our veins [TS]

  it made me so angry when I found out [TS]

  that he could just order right then and [TS]

  there like it was nothing oh well I mean [TS]

  no grumpy in all fairness a nobody [TS]

  comparably buys these things or wants [TS]

  them and be [TS]

  at Google screws have lots of other [TS]

  stuff about selling phones correctly [TS]

  things like support returns [TS]

  there's no retail angle really I mean [TS]

  there's all silly apples way ahead of [TS]

  Google when it comes to the business of [TS]

  selling people phones and then [TS]

  supporting them by so many miles that [TS]

  it's comical to even compare them but [TS]

  yeah I mean really what this really [TS]

  comes down to ultimately is that they [TS]

  can open their pre-orders for this thing [TS]

  immediately and sell it you know I start [TS]

  song immediately because the the numbers [TS]

  are so much dramatically smaller than [TS]

  what Apple sells and so comparably few [TS]

  people are even paying attention let [TS]

  alone ordering these things and using [TS]

  them and owning them that it's it's a [TS]

  totally different game you know who's [TS]

  paying attention I'm paying attention to [TS]

  the fact that you tried to skip follow [TS]

  up and ask in a pre-show yeah you send [TS]

  me links to these things so Google for [TS]

  them and just I don't see what you're [TS]

  talking about all right I will put a [TS]

  link in the show notes in the chat in [TS]

  the robot it will be everywhere but the [TS]

  reason that this ran all ran long was [TS]

  because we got talking about names and [TS]

  how stupid iPhone 10 is and then we're [TS]

  getting sidetracked with me moaning [TS]

  about having to wake up at 3 in the [TS]

  morning to spend an absurd amount of [TS]

  money that I should be so lucky as to [TS]

  have on a phone that I don't need so [TS]

  moving on from first world problems from [TS]

  my first world problems the most [TS]

  fascinating thing to me well there's a [TS]

  couple interesting things to me about [TS]

  these pixel 2 devices one is the [TS]

  aesthetic look of them so if you go to [TS]

  the verge post and you know they have [TS]

  this tremendous video right up front and [TS]

  then you scroll down a little bit and [TS]

  you see these phones and in a lot of [TS]

  ways they remind me of like older [TS]

  iPhones when you look at the top half [TS]

  and I can't really put my finger on why [TS]

  I guess it's because it's you know more [TS]

  rectangular I guess but then as you [TS]

  scroll down the page maybe is just cuz [TS]

  my window is smaller but anyway as I [TS]

  scroll down I see the bottom of the [TS]

  phone I realize is it upside down [TS]

  because the top and bottom look exactly [TS]

  the same that's a little bit peculiar to [TS]

  me now in the defense of this phone I [TS]

  believe you know both of these are [TS]

  certainly speakers and having like the [TS]

  stereo speakers that are pointed at you [TS]

  rather than having the bottom speaker [TS]

  pointed down and the top speaker pointed [TS]

  at your face that's kind of cool [TS]

  but aesthetically this looks odd to me [TS]

  you go squeeze it to get Google [TS]

  assistant yes that's right I forgot [TS]

  about that that's a good point I [TS]

  wouldn't have brought that up and so I'm [TS]

  glad you reminded me but yeah what do [TS]

  they call it they had some truly [TS]

  terrible marketing name for it like [TS]

  active something or something like that [TS]

  active squeeze squeeze active edge [TS]

  squeezable sides there you go that's [TS]

  awful active edge how truly terrible is [TS]

  that that's even worse than Apple's [TS]

  modern like undiscoverable gestures [TS]

  that's that's like what do you think is [TS]

  worse like squeeze for assistant or [TS]

  shake to undo I don't know it's tough [TS]

  call but the thing that was most [TS]

  interesting to me about this was the way [TS]

  they're doing portrait mode and I mean [TS]

  this genuinely I'm not I'm not trying to [TS]

  snark the way they're doing portrait [TS]

  mode is and I'm probably gonna get the [TS]

  details slightly wrong but in the the [TS]

  single rear lens they don't do a - lens [TS]

  setup like like Apple does or 16 lens [TS]

  setup like our friends at light do but [TS]

  they do a single lens but what's [TS]

  interesting is each of the pixels in the [TS]

  sensor is apparently two different [TS]

  pixels and I know that doesn't make [TS]

  sense and that's the best I can do to [TS]

  explain it without really going into [TS]

  nuance but suffice to say they've [TS]

  effectively got a two line system or [TS]

  really I guess I should say a two sensor [TS]

  system because the actual single sensor [TS]

  does a two-for-one its i guess it's a [TS]

  closeout sale anyway it has it is two [TS]

  pixels forever [TS]

  we're I guess one pixels worth of data [TS]

  if that makes any sense at all so what [TS]

  they do is they kind of have the the two [TS]

  I'm saying lens and I don't mean that I [TS]

  guess literally they have a similar set [TS]

  up to the two line system that Apple has [TS]

  but they have it with only one lens and [TS]

  then they used you know machine learning [TS]

  which is Google's favorite thing and you [TS]

  know what I don't blame them because [TS]

  they actually can do it pretty well they [TS]

  use machine learning to kind of [TS]

  extrapolate and interpret what these two [TS]

  pixels are seeing in order to get their [TS]

  own portrait mode which coincidentally [TS]

  they've littered [TS]

  called portrait mode I just thought that [TS]

  was kind of cool on a client a clever [TS]

  approach because having the two lenses [TS]

  on the back I mean I don't it doesn't [TS]

  offend me but I don't think it looks [TS]

  particularly great especially with the [TS]

  camera bump which this does not have I'm [TS]

  sorry it does have a kid no you're right [TS]

  my fingerprint sensor on the back too [TS]

  right yes it does and I apologize you're [TS]

  absolutely right about the camera bump [TS]

  yeah I mean these phones like and you [TS]

  know just superficially the pixel the [TS]

  regular pixel to like the regular-sized [TS]

  one not the plus-sized one the the top [TS]

  and bottom bezels have looked comically [TS]

  large by today's standards like that [TS]

  like it's funny like yeah yeah iPhone 10 [TS]

  comes out and immediately ruins the look [TS]

  of all previous iPhone proportions [TS]

  forever right and like the pixel two has [TS]

  pretty much all iPhone abortions and and [TS]

  it looks just impossibly old now the to [TS]

  the pixel to 10 L has much more of like [TS]

  an s8 style proportion where it's almost [TS]

  it's it's kind of like what people want [TS]

  Apple to do with the iPhone 10 where [TS]

  they lop off the top and bottom and just [TS]

  make it black and just give a curved [TS]

  thing in the middle and I don't I don't [TS]

  think it's that attractive honestly so [TS]

  maybe this is kind of why Apple didn't [TS]

  do that like maybe they found the same [TS]

  thing they try it and there's a car that [TS]

  just doesn't look as good I don't know [TS]

  but anyway [TS]

  every time that like a new Google [TS]

  official phone comes out back when they [TS]

  were called nexuses and now that now [TS]

  that they're called pixels here's what's [TS]

  gonna happen [TS]

  all the gadget nerds are going to fawn [TS]

  all over certain features of this [TS]

  they're all gonna say man this is the [TS]

  best phone at you know feature X Y X Y [TS]

  or Z or this is the best Android phone [TS]

  ever made and then like in three months [TS]

  Samsung is gonna come out with a better [TS]

  one and no one will actually keep using [TS]

  this phone long term everybody will tell [TS]

  you like how great it is and they're so [TS]

  glad Google's making these awesome [TS]

  phones and this is the best at these [TS]

  certain things but none of them will [TS]

  actually switch to it permanently [TS]

  they're all going to either go back to [TS]

  their iPhones or they're going to go to [TS]

  whatever Samsung launches next or go [TS]

  back to what [TS]

  recently because google just does not [TS]

  they make this great hardware that [TS]

  that's like good and reviews but it's [TS]

  usually not class leading in like in the [TS]

  in the big picture and also they never [TS]

  sell very many of them comparably [TS]

  speaking because their their retail [TS]

  distribution game is crap compared to [TS]

  all their competitors you know or at [TS]

  least compared to Samsung and Apple so [TS]

  it's it's funny it's fun to me to look [TS]

  at these things when they come out and [TS]

  say oh that's interesting is like [TS]

  everyone else but it's hard for me to [TS]

  ever see Google's launches like this [TS]

  having a major impact in the market [TS]

  really they have a major impact on [TS]

  reviews that make it seem like they're [TS]

  gonna have a major impact impact on the [TS]

  market but they never do I don't know if [TS]

  that's entirely true though because I [TS]

  think these are the darling phones of [TS]

  the people that are like us but like [TS]

  Android and so your point is 90% true I [TS]

  think but these certainly do make a big [TS]

  splash and I think are held on to by the [TS]

  people who really really truly love [TS]

  Android now I won't make any snarky [TS]

  comments about how many people that is [TS]

  and I won't guess publicly that it's ten [TS]

  but but nevertheless I do think it's [TS]

  important to they all work on verge the [TS]

  other thing about this phone like the [TS]

  front I agree with you that the [TS]

  proportions look wrong now that I've [TS]

  seen an iPhone 10 but the back this [TS]

  two-tone thing do not want like if you [TS]

  scroll down the verge article it's [TS]

  almost all the way at the bottom this [TS]

  two-tone that they've had for two years [TS]

  running now does not work for me at all [TS]

  I think it looks like garbage yeah I [TS]

  mean no one's buying this phone for the [TS]

  looks let's be honest saying you know [TS]

  same as other Google stuff in the past [TS]

  like the people who buy this are [TS]

  reviewers and people who really like [TS]

  tech nerds who very closely follow like [TS]

  Google and the Android world like it's [TS]

  not gonna be a lot of normal consumers [TS]

  yeah so I thought it was worth bringing [TS]

  up and and I'm sorry that we have an [TS]

  extended pre-show this time mr. siracusa [TS]

  I kind of like the black-and-white one [TS]

  orange button on the side it's kind of [TS]

  stormtrooper II though is a good look [TS]

  the most offensive thing about the back [TS]

  of [TS]

  is that terrible G logo yeah I noticed [TS]

  that too it's pretty bad and I guess the [TS]

  touch sensor how does the squeeze part [TS]

  work if you have a case like does that [TS]

  impair squeeze ability do you have to [TS]

  get a squeezable case do they live [TS]

  little cutouts for both the belly button [TS]

  and and the squeeze sides right like you [TS]

  can imagine case it's like rigid all [TS]

  around but then it has squishy areas for [TS]

  the squeeze no I mean like you know [TS]

  everything I said earlier like I I don't [TS]

  want this to be the case like I want [TS]

  somebody in the Android world to make [TS]

  phones that are really really nice and [TS]

  that really kick Apple in the pants and [TS]

  make everyone compete on a higher level [TS]

  Samsung doesn't do that [TS]

  you know Samsung makes phones that are [TS]

  that have great specs but usually have [TS]

  lots of downsides I got to say like they [TS]

  are getting better at the physical [TS]

  design side but they still always have a [TS]

  lot of like weird like bizarre dumb [TS]

  features and downsides and weird [TS]

  decisions I think Google is coming [TS]

  closest to being able to compete with [TS]

  really nice stuff in the Android world [TS]

  but they're just so far from actually [TS]

  being on the same level that I don't [TS]

  think Apple looks at this at all and is [TS]

  threatened by this I also think that [TS]

  again like their their lack of having [TS]

  much retail power or distribution power [TS]

  to get these things sold in large [TS]

  volumes I think that just doesn't [TS]

  intimidate Apple at all I wish there was [TS]

  a higher level competition here but [TS]

  there just isn't yet yeah I agree [TS]

  all right 20 minutes later with the [TS]

  pre-show oh man all right so let's let's [TS]

  quote unquote start with some follow up [TS]

  John how's your fan do you hear the fan [TS]

  in your Apple TV and that's the thing [TS]

  just one follow up how soon we all [TS]

  forget anyway I do have my Apple TV 4k I [TS]

  did I rotated my Apple TV's a couple of [TS]

  notes about [TS]

  thing first just to confirm about the [TS]

  output format thing the person who wrote [TS]

  in to tell us that you can change to 24 [TS]

  Hertz but only in 4k I found that also [TS]

  to be the case despite the fact that my [TS]

  television can accept 24 hours input the [TS]

  Apple TV will not send it because it's [TS]

  not a 4k TV so if I had a 4k TV I could [TS]

  do 24 hours but because I have a 1080p [TS]

  TV I can't [TS]

  second thing is setting up the Apple TV [TS]

  it's got the thing where you bring the [TS]

  phone near it was that in the old one or [TS]

  is that the new home plaudit well it was [TS]

  in the old one anyway [TS]

  that was nice but then I realized oh I [TS]

  have to redownload all my purchased apps [TS]

  and then remember how they were arranged [TS]

  and stuff like that if you're setting up [TS]

  a new Apple TV 4k and find yourself in [TS]

  that situation stop because there is a [TS]

  setting somewhere in settings and the [TS]

  Settings app did I figure what's call [TS]

  like homescreen sync or something you [TS]

  can tell it to make this Apple TV like [TS]

  all your other Rapp TVs in other words [TS]

  keep the home screens in sync with each [TS]

  other and you turn that on and it will I [TS]

  think it'll automatically download yes [TS]

  but certainly it will rearrange them to [TS]

  be in the same order as they were on [TS]

  your other Apple TV which saves a lot of [TS]

  time unfortunately you still have to log [TS]

  in with all your applications and doing [TS]

  that is a super pain like there's this [TS]

  feature I don't know if it's new because [TS]

  I haven't set up an Apple TV in forever [TS]

  but when you're launch an app and it [TS]

  wants you to like log in like Allah like [TS]

  into the Netflix app right and you have [TS]

  to log in with your you know email [TS]

  address and password or just how you [TS]

  just log into Netflix everywhere and [TS]

  when you do that Apple TV tries to [TS]

  remember the email address you entered [TS]

  because it's such a pain to enter things [TS]

  with the remote so that the next time [TS]

  you go to a different app to log in it [TS]

  will give you a choice of recently used [TS]

  email addresses there's actually a [TS]

  section in settings it shows all you [TS]

  recently use the email addresses which [TS]

  sounds like a good idea because hey I [TS]

  don't want to type that email address [TS]

  more than one time but since I use the [TS]

  remote app on my phone to type things in [TS]

  instead of using the terrible Apple TV [TS]

  remote [TS]

  there's some weird interaction [TS]

  apparently no one at Apple ever did this [TS]

  because I enter the email address does [TS]

  that do that and you know it works fine [TS]

  and I sign it and everything like that [TS]

  and then I go to the second app and says [TS]

  choose from your recent email addresses [TS]

  and it shows my iCloud email because it [TS]

  knows that when the [TS]

  I'm signed into iCloud at male TV and [TS]

  then the other choice is the first [TS]

  letter only of my previous email there's [TS]

  like a single letter and as I entered in [TS]

  multiple email addresses to sign into [TS]

  multiple services it would only save the [TS]

  first letter I think it's because I was [TS]

  typing it all on my phone like that the [TS]

  phone remote app that's a stupid [TS]

  terrible bug I'm like alright well I'll [TS]

  go into settings and I'll be able to [TS]

  edit those nope all you can do is delete [TS]

  them in settings so I got to delete all [TS]

  the single character email addresses but [TS]

  that's a dumb bug and they should fix [TS]

  that but I do like the idea of it [TS]

  remembering the feature for the other [TS]

  things there's like that please select [TS]

  your television provider right and my [TS]

  television provider is on the list and [TS]

  like oh this is great this is that [TS]

  single sign-on thing I'm not quite sure [TS]

  what's you doing with my provider like [TS]

  what part of the process is streamlining [TS]

  but having signed into umpteen [TS]

  applications for all the services that I [TS]

  subscribe to and being bounced from [TS]

  webpage to application you know around [TS]

  and around in circles and going to like [TS] slash activate and all these [TS]

  other URLs and typing in four-letter [TS]

  codes [TS]

  I don't think there was any single [TS]

  sign-on did entering my television [TS]

  provider saved me from in fact the worst [TS]

  offender was I think it was Showtime or [TS]

  something as far as I could tell they [TS]

  want you they launched the app and it [TS]

  says plea to go to like show time [TS]

  anytime calm slash activate I mean I go [TS]

  here I'm gonna do that I'm gonna type in [TS]

  this code when you go there as far as I [TS]

  can tell it demands that you download [TS]

  their iOS app just so you can activate [TS]

  their live TV you download the iOS app [TS]

  and that's the only time you get to type [TS]

  in the code it's logged me into [TS]

  television apps is the worst thing ever [TS]

  so home screen sync is great I wish [TS]

  would also sync the fact that I'm logged [TS]

  in to a million of these services and [TS]

  someone added a one night final item [TS]

  here about remote improvements as far as [TS]

  I can tell there are none that I can [TS]

  detect other than the raised ring which [TS]

  helps less than I thought it would [TS]

  because I think my main complaint I mean [TS]

  I I guess I don't pick it up backwards [TS]

  as much as most people because I look at [TS]

  it and the reason I look at it because [TS]

  it's like I said like so it's like a [TS]

  mousetrap or like the game of operation [TS]

  like you just you have to look at it too [TS]

  gingerly pick it up so that you don't [TS]

  accidentally cause something to happen [TS]

  people are saying that it is better [TS]

  about axonal input but I don't like it [TS]

  when the progress bar comes up and like [TS]

  overlays the show that people are [TS]

  watching frequently I will pick it up to [TS]

  just you know use the volume or [TS]

  something like that and [TS]

  accidentally graze the touchpad and now [TS]

  you got to do a five count for the you [TS]

  know the progress bar to disappear off [TS]

  the screen I don't like that remote it's [TS]

  still bad I mean I will say that the the [TS]

  ring around the Menu button does help it [TS]

  because it is noticeably raised and so [TS]

  it now does feel different if you hold [TS]

  it wrong and you can orient yourself by [TS]

  feel with that button but that's the [TS]

  only problem it solves this remote has [TS]

  lots of other problems it doesn't [TS]

  anybody solve that problem because if [TS]

  you if you grab it upside down and you [TS]

  go oh this I don't feel the ridge so I [TS]

  know I'm holding up a so damn well guess [TS]

  what your palm has been all over that [TS]

  touchpad by this point and it has done [TS]

  it certainly has brought up the progress [TS]

  bar who knows what I was it might've [TS]

  done especially if you've gripped it [TS]

  firmly [TS]

  instead of gingerly like the beautiful [TS]

  delicate little insect that it is right [TS]

  you actually grab the remote you [TS]

  probably not only grazed the touchpad [TS]

  but activated the pressure-sensitive [TS]

  button and who knows what you did it's [TS]

  the worst yeah I mean I'm not quite as [TS]

  hard on it as you in this regard however [TS]

  the white the white circle the raised [TS]

  white circle on this button does help [TS]

  but the remote is still a terrible [TS]

  remote and I wish they would have done [TS]

  substantially more to actually redesign [TS]

  this thing instead of basically digging [TS]

  in and saying no this is fine here take [TS]

  a stupid white ring like that's [TS]

  basically what this to what this [TS]

  revision says oh and I was frequently [TS]

  faced with the prompt that says hold [TS]

  down the speaker button to speak like [TS]

  very often you know it's like let me [TS]

  just speak this thing that I have to [TS]

  enter here instead of typing because [TS]

  even just typing on your phone gets [TS]

  tedious after a while like I'm not very [TS]

  good with a with the phone sized [TS]

  keyboard or whatever so I'm like okay [TS]

  it's prompting me with the little [TS]

  speaker and says hold down the button [TS]

  and talking to your microphone and that [TS]

  often works if you just say want to say [TS]

  like watch Game of Thrones it will do [TS]

  that like that part of the Apple TV [TS]

  experience is great anytime you don't [TS]

  have to use the remote you're like yes [TS]

  right and so I'm gonna text me or some [TS]

  kind and it's telling me [TS]

  hold down the remote and talk and I [TS]

  would call down the remote and start to [TS]

  talk and as soon as I started talking [TS]

  we'll just go Boop and it would like [TS]

  stop listening to me and then it would [TS]

  say hold down the remote and try to talk [TS]

  and I would pull the head remote and [TS]

  started talking to go Boop and stop [TS]

  listening to me like instead wouldn't it [TS]

  wouldn't maybe I'll get like one [TS]

  character out or wouldn't type anything [TS]

  it was just like why why what is [TS]

  happening [TS]

  do you hate me you're a brand new thing [TS]

  out of the box you're presenting me a [TS]

  native text filled with the native you [TS]

  know the little picker with the alphabet [TS]

  and and the three things [TS]

  oh yeah and during the setup experience [TS]

  they had this crazy on-screen prompt [TS]

  they're asking a bunch of questions and [TS]

  a series of like sort of wizard type [TS]

  screens of asking you questions there [TS]

  would be a thing highlighted and below [TS]

  it like the corners of a triangle like [TS]

  were two buttons and your highlight [TS]

  would be on like the top point of the [TS]

  triangle like that button and there [TS]

  would be a button you know sort of [TS]

  Southwest and a button southeast and I [TS]

  couldn't for the life me figure out what [TS]

  direction it wanted me to swipe to get [TS]

  to the south west or south east button [TS]

  because swiping south did nothing right [TS]

  and you're like this why the West to get [TS]

  Southwest and as far as I could tell it [TS]

  was like any direction you swipe to do [TS]

  anything would always bring you to the [TS]

  default button and then if you didn't [TS]

  want the default you could swipe right [TS]

  because the default button was on the [TS]

  Left there was like a good puzzle game [TS]

  of figuring out how I move the selection [TS]

  basically down and to the left it was [TS]

  the worst that did you experience with [TS]

  this when you're setting up marker know [TS]

  my experimental experience was pretty [TS]

  flawless and in fact I was actually also [TS]

  getting a compliment that my my you know [TS]

  keep the home screens in sync thing [TS]

  worked great I mean probably because I [TS]

  use far fewer apps than it sounds like [TS]

  you do and I have far fewer accounts for [TS]

  things that I need to sign in to for me [TS]

  it's basically just like Netflix and HBO [TS]

  now go thing that's it like that's I [TS]

  don't really have anything else on me [TS]

  you did have to resize those but I [TS]

  thought I thought was like a wizard at [TS]

  the beginning that forced you to pick [TS]

  all the things that I was picking it [TS]

  that gave you the triangle buttons where [TS]

  I forget what this the highlight is on [TS]

  but yeah the dragging Southwest I would [TS]

  like to swipe what I was think was [TS]

  Southwest and the selection would just [TS]

  not move it would just not move in so I [TS]

  would do south it wouldn't move I think [TS]

  it wanted you to go like wet dead West [TS]

  to select an item on screen southwest [TS]

  infuriating I should have taken pictures [TS]

  of the screen no I do not have those [TS]

  issues but I mean a lot of this UI it [TS]

  has been [TS]

  like three-quarters baked for two years [TS]

  now and doesn't seem to be getting put [TS]

  back in the oven so wouldn't surprise me [TS]

  anyway that's it I've got my 4k apple TV [TS]

  I rotated all the apples feasts and not [TS]

  have one free one like my Apple TV 3 is [TS]

  now like that yep [TS]

  the travel TV oh and I usually use this [TS]

  is a TiVo complete I usually use the I [TS]

  have an old TiVo remote that I use with [TS]

  an old Apple TV and I trained it on the [TS]

  TV that rotated up to the bedroom but [TS]

  the problem is the new stupid bent TiVo [TS]

  that I have up there like they're their [TS]

  top of the line box essentially as far [TS]

  as I can tell there is no way to get it [TS]

  to not receive signals from my TiVo [TS]

  remote I even have the technicals before [TS]

  uh steeper once used to have a 1/2 [TS]

  swatch on them you can switch to the one [TS]

  side of the two sides you could have to [TS]

  TiVo hooked up to your TV you have one [TS]

  remote set to one or more remote side to [TS]

  two so they would interfere with each [TS]

  other which was a great idea the TV was [TS]

  really smart but the new TiVo's no [TS]

  matter what I set any of their remotes [TS]

  to this bent TiVo sees Bay's the [TS]

  commands of any team over remote so you [TS]

  can't use the TiVo remote with the Apple [TS]

  TV but you can but you will realize that [TS]

  you are blindly going through menus [TS]

  accidentally who knows possibly you know [TS]

  deleting stuff or recording things you [TS]

  don't want because every time you press [TS]

  a button the TiVo registers the command [TS]

  in addition to the Apple TV so that's [TS]

  kind of crappy so I we have to use the [TS]

  the crappy Apple TV remote upstairs now [TS]

  I'm sorry Jon I know it's hard for you I [TS]

  think you can turn off the IR on the [TS]

  thing and they just make it do blue blue [TS]

  the only but that you can't do the [TS]

  volume control because the volume [TS]

  controls IR it's a it's a complicated [TS]

  situation I also have a piece of tin [TS]

  foil covering the other TiVo that's up [TS]

  there I have to TiVo it simple works [TS]

  great though by the way it's like it how [TS]

  do i how do i where is the IR sensor how [TS]

  do I stop the r guess what can fall over [TS]

  the whole front of it oh my god solves [TS]

  that problem [TS]

  that's incredible and when you don't [TS]

  need it to block your TiVo you can wear [TS]

  it as a hat [TS]

  ya know I mean I wanted to just get rid [TS]

  of it but we have tons of pre-recorded [TS]

  stuff on there so we're slowly and [TS]

  painfully transferring it from the old [TS]

  TiVo to the new TiVo which takes forever [TS]

  for a variety of dumb reasons most of [TS]

  which have to do with the weak Wi-Fi [TS]

  signal that I have like in that corner [TS]

  of the house for the TV is but and the [TS]

  fact that I think it's like 802 11 B or [TS]

  something like it doesn't even have [TS]

  Wi-Fi built in the old one so it's like [TS]

  a little adapter than hanging out the [TS]

  end so the Wi-Fi speeds are super slow [TS]

  anyway eventually it will get rid of [TS]

  that box and then yeah and someone the [TS]

  cherubs asking me ever heard of Euro we [TS]

  do have Euro we have five bars five you [TS]

  know full signal strength in there but [TS]

  like the the Wi-Fi adapter dongle thing [TS]

  is bad and in general t-bo's got really [TS]

  bad transfer speeds not even limited by [TS]

  that network so who knows what its [TS]

  problem is but it takes a long time oh I [TS]

  forgot about the fan yeah alright so I [TS]

  actually forgot I did forget what I [TS]

  hoped it up I'm doing CV setup and [TS]

  everything like oh I forgot I should do [TS]

  go look at the fan so by this point it's [TS]

  connected to my television and I've been [TS]

  using it to like set up all the [TS]

  applications and do all the setup stuff [TS]

  and I actually you know played a few [TS]

  games with it and to see if the [TS]

  performance was better and stuff like [TS]

  that then I had to go over the TV [TS]

  grab the little thing and of course I [TS]

  can't pull it away from the [TS]

  entertainment centre very far because [TS]

  it's got an HDMI cable in the back and [TS]

  the power cord and stuff like that and [TS]

  if I unplug the power cord obviously the [TS]

  fan will be off and on my television I [TS]

  have at the very least a TiVo with the [TS]

  fans are on my television itself has [TS]

  fans in it so this is a pretty noisy [TS]

  environment nevertheless held that thing [TS]

  up to my ear I can hear the fan and I'm [TS]

  like oh that's not fair I did a lot of [TS]

  setup I was playing games I just let it [TS]

  sit so the next morning after the tea [TS]

  the Apple TV been sleeping all night [TS]

  long [TS]

  I came activated the Apple TV so the [TS]

  little light turns on throw it up to my [TS]

  ear I can still hear it so you can hear [TS]

  it if you shove it up to your ear but I [TS]

  guarantee you get four inches away and [TS]

  you cannot hear it even if it was in a [TS]

  dead sound room and it's not it is in my [TS]

  entertainment center with my TiVo fan [TS]

  and my television fans so noise is [TS]

  absolutely not a concern with this I [TS]

  think the fan is always spinning you can [TS]

  hear it if you put it up to your ear and [TS]

  if you have better hearing then [TS]

  apparently Jason Snell and Margo I don't [TS]

  understand how you couldn't hear it it [TS]

  wasn't even close like you can hear it [TS]

  wait I didn't put my ear right against [TS]

  the case I just moved my ear close to it [TS]

  no you have to pick it up and hold it to [TS]

  your ear like your like your you know [TS]

  what do you call like it when you ever [TS]

  see in the movies where some some record [TS]

  producer is trying to listen to some [TS]

  music and get into the groove and takes [TS]

  a pair of headphones [TS]

  but he only holds one year of the [TS]

  headphones against his ear oh yeah yep [TS]

  do that no anyway if you have any [TS]

  concerns about this fan it gets the John [TS]

  Serkis a seal of approval it is [TS]

  inaudible to humans you're fine [TS]

  Wow can we get like an actual seal made [TS]

  to that effect [TS]

  I don't put stickers on things also did [TS]

  you just imply that you're not human [TS]

  did we just get confirmation that you [TS]

  are a robot it's inaudible to humans [TS]

  unless you're holding it to your ear [TS]

  you're not supposed to use the house of [TS]

  you whole literally holding it to your [TS]

  ear like a like a seashell you know you [TS]

  can hear the ocean in shell Marco has [TS]

  anyone taught you this now the yer beach [TS]

  bum yes alright good anyway that's there [TS]

  you go do that maybe he's a super here [TS]

  wouldn't surprise me maybe I just don't [TS]

  last time I just had my yearly physical [TS]

  and the last time I had my yearly [TS]

  physical oh my god are we really going [TS]

  they did they did the hearing test you [TS]

  know where they did the different tones [TS]

  in your ears and last year I failed a [TS]

  bunch of the tones in my right ear and [TS]

  she's like oh it's probably just because [TS]

  you have a cold like oh my god I'm going [TS]

  deaf I'm old but turns out just without [TS]

  a cold this year I got them all the long [TS]

  national nightmare is over we are [TS]

  sponsored this week by betterment [TS]

  rethink what your money can do for more [TS]

  information visit betterment comm slash [TS]

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  ATP betterment rethink what your money [TS]

  can do so let's move on to ask ATP and [TS]

  the curiously named null road hint ask [TS]

  what did Marko and Casey use for iowa's [TS]

  error logging existing frameworks or [TS]

  something homegrown hashtag noob and it [TS]

  looks like this was spelled correctly [TS]

  with two zeros so I applaud you now [TS]

  anyway noob iOS dev since I'm talking I [TS]

  will go ahead and start the company I [TS]

  work for uses fabric which was well I [TS]

  don't even know the relationship with [TS]

  crashlytics either was crashlytics or [TS]

  fresh lettuce is now considered a [TS]

  product with the paralytics was acquired [TS]

  by Twitter Twitter rolled it into a [TS]

  larger thing called fabric that Google [TS]

  bought fabric from Twitter right ok [TS]

  there you go so that is what we are [TS]

  currently using it is sufficient I don't [TS]

  forgive any errors logging is this I [TS]

  don't include is this just crash [TS]

  reporting I I took this to mean like NS [TS]

  log kind of error logging oh oh that is [TS]

  not how I took this I took this to mean [TS]

  crash reporting which is exactly what [TS]

  you expected and for that we use fabric [TS]

  for like in a slog sort of thing we [TS]

  don't we don't do anything using this [TS]

  log yeah well I mean we don't have any [TS]

  mechanism by which that's reported [TS]

  anywhere is what I mean like we we use [TS]

  well really we use print because we're [TS]

  not stuck in 1987 on objective-c but [TS]

  anyway we we just used the effectively [TS]

  NS log for you know local debugging and [TS]

  development and stuff like that but we [TS]

  don't we'd never gets reported to a [TS]

  server anywhere or not knowingly anyway [TS]

  I'm sure somebody's gonna write in and [TS]

  tell me no you idiot crashlytics getting [TS]

  all that too and that very well may be [TS]

  the case but I've never seen it probably [TS]

  yeah I use NS log in development in [TS]

  production I don't think my app logs [TS]

  much of anything I usually remove them [TS]

  or I use like you know macros to have [TS]

  like a debug log that calls a nice log [TS]

  in development but not in production [TS]

  stuff like that so and then I don't have [TS]

  any mechanism for the instances of the [TS]

  app out in the field to be reporting [TS]

  back to me what they have logged [TS]

  I don't have that right same here [TS]

  haven't had the need for it ever that's [TS]

  he [TS]

  like a lot of data to deal with I also I [TS]

  know that that last year they introduced [TS]

  this whole like unified logging [TS]

  framework thing about all the systems [TS]

  and I honestly had I don't know anything [TS]

  about it I never saw the session I [TS]

  haven't looked at it at all and all the [TS]

  only thing I see from that is that ever [TS]

  since they introduced that new logging [TS]

  system console app is completely useless [TS]

  the phone console is covered in garbage [TS]

  can I look in Xcode and that when I even [TS]

  when I do a build and run in Xcode all [TS]

  the system crap still logs to that [TS]

  console what makes it very hard for me [TS]

  to use and us talking for anything else [TS]

  so I think the new system has not made a [TS]

  good impression on me having not used it [TS]

  because now it just seems like [TS]

  everything in the OSS is constantly [TS]

  spewing crap into the logs and that [TS]

  can't be good no matter how lightweight [TS]

  they've made it yeah yeah Alex writes in [TS]

  is there any meaningful difference [TS]

  between the $50.00 qi is that right so [TS]

  he pronounced this yes [TS]

  Thank You Chi Chargers apples promoting [TS]

  and the $15 no name ones on Amazon [TS]

  pronounce 10 I don't have the faintest [TS]

  idea what the answer this question is I [TS]

  understand the question but I I don't [TS]

  know I don't have any she capable [TS]

  devices in my house right now so the [TS]

  reason I put this in here is because a [TS]

  bunch of people have been using their [TS]

  iPhone eights with the non apple Chi [TS]

  chargers and having varying experiences [TS]

  with like exactly how carefully you have [TS]

  to position the phone on the mat both [TS]

  orient and position it and you know the [TS]

  basics tale of woe is I woke up and my [TS]

  phone was 10% charge because I didn't [TS]

  put it on the mat quite the right way [TS]

  and a lot of people are saying that this [TS]

  is the reason why this is the space for [TS]

  Apple to innovate they already said that [TS]

  they have some things that you can do [TS]

  with the air power mat that you can't do [TS]

  with a regular charger like charge [TS]

  multiple devices at once and have them [TS]

  you know do all the things they showed [TS]

  in the keynote right that's what air [TS]

  power will do but another possible thing [TS]

  that the air power mat might do is you [TS]

  know be better about positioning now I [TS]

  think this question is about what about [TS]

  the ones the you know from Belkin or [TS]

  whoever that apples from earning fifty [TS]

  bucks versus the fifteen dollar ones [TS]

  I would imagine that one possible [TS]

  difference is exactly how picky they are [TS]

  about how you place your thing on it [TS]

  right it's probably very easy to make a [TS]

  technically Qi compatible charger that [TS]

  is super finicky about where you put [TS]

  your phone and maybe the more expensive [TS]

  ones have you there larger areas where [TS]

  you can put them or have multiple [TS]

  orientation things or something like [TS]

  that that would be my guess having not [TS]

  used any of these things and not torn [TS]

  any of them apart but it's a very least [TS]

  I wanted to bring this up because I hope [TS]

  that that's exactly what Apple does they [TS]

  regardless of the possible difference [TS]

  between 50 and $15 it could just be ones [TS]

  Belkin branded and you pay you know [TS]

  extra $35 for that or whatever but Apple [TS]

  we already know that they're doing multi [TS]

  device one of the things that they one [TS]

  of the attributes of their fancy air [TS]

  power mat which I'm sure won't cost $50 [TS]

  is that it should be able to charge in [TS]

  lots of different positions and with [TS]

  them showing multiple phones and a watch [TS]

  all in the same pad surely that means [TS]

  that you can put them more or less [TS]

  anywhere on the pad and they'll be fine [TS]

  because it's not as there's three preset [TS]

  division positions you have to put them [TS]

  exactly on that especially since as far [TS]

  as I can tell the surface of the air [TS]

  power is completely featureless like [TS]

  there's no red X that says put your [TS]

  phone here and put your watch here and [TS]

  put your whatever here so that is my [TS]

  hope and that is a possible reason to [TS]

  maybe wait for the air power thing to [TS]

  come out before you take a dive into the [TS]

  wireless charging world finally Mike [TS]

  Bolton is that your name it's too bad [TS]

  that no-talent ass clown ruined it for [TS]

  everyone [TS]

  Mike Bolton writes in who's the fastest [TS]

  typist if you guys play for the best two [TS]

  out of three on typeracer or a similar [TS]

  head-to-head typing thingy I'll donate a [TS]

  hundred dollars to the charity of your [TS]

  choosing we didn't get do an actual like [TS]

  simultaneous head-to-head thing which I [TS]

  am willing to do right now if Marco is [TS]

  willing to edit it all out but we each [TS]

  well two-thirds of us those of us who [TS]

  believe in homework did the homework and [TS]

  filled out the appropriate entry in the [TS]

  show notes indicating what our scores [TS]

  were Marco have you done this I have I [TS]

  just didn't put my entry in the show [TS]

  notes because of course when you asked [TS]

  me for a [TS]

  list with a certain number of items in [TS]

  it in this case one I can't give my top [TS]

  one list it has more than one entry oh [TS]

  my god [TS]

  he's trying to build it's trying to [TS]

  build suspense and by the way going into [TS]

  this I assume that I would have the [TS]

  slowest timing speed and even though [TS]

  marco has an answer this time I'm going [TS]

  to say that I will have the slowest I [TS]

  mostly do I don't type I don't type [TS]

  correctly like the correct way with the [TS]

  fingers on the home keys I took typing [TS]

  courses on on IBM Selectric typewriters [TS]

  in my youth I took many years of typing [TS]

  courses and I apparently successfully [TS]

  resisted everything they had to teach me [TS]

  and I type totally the wrong way and so [TS]

  I'm slow I used to hunt and peck for the [TS]

  longest time and when I was still pretty [TS]

  young I think before I started taking [TS]

  like keyboarding class in school I [TS]

  decided one day I was going to force [TS]

  myself to learn to touch type and I [TS]

  basically forced myself to use the home [TS]

  row and after given how much I spent how [TS]

  much time I spent on a computer even my [TS]

  youth it took me all of a couple of [TS]

  weeks to get okay and now I well for a [TS]

  long time now I've been in the just [TS]

  truly tremendous position where I don't [TS]

  have to think about where to put my [TS]

  fingers words just magically appear on [TS]

  the screen and I know I'm not unique in [TS]

  that way it's just getting to that point [TS]

  is amazing so anyway so what I did was I [TS]

  took the test all right I did the little [TS]

  typing thing once and then they asked [TS]

  you to like verify that you're a human [TS]

  by taking another little test and the [TS]

  second test that I took so the [TS]

  verification test indicated that Ike [TS]

  type at 125 words per minute if I had [TS]

  seen Marcos score which I'm assuming is [TS]

  higher than 125 words per minute I [TS]

  assure you I would have spent hours [TS]

  getting to the point that I beat it but [TS]

  based on one time in one time I guess [TS]

  really two times I 100 25 words per [TS]

  minute and that was without any sort of [TS]

  warm-up I think it was early in the [TS]

  morning I would blame it on coffee but [TS]

  coffee is evil and so I don't drink [TS]

  coffee but that was my score John what [TS]

  was your score so I did a couple of runs [TS]

  to get warmed up and I put 79 down even [TS]

  though that wasn't my very best run [TS]

  because I did a little bit [TS]

  - that night you can especially once you [TS]

  learn the passages that they're having [TS]

  your type I have my problem typing these [TS]

  things is like I wouldn't put a comma [TS]

  there I wouldn't word it that way right [TS]

  but once you've done that sometimes they [TS]

  repeat or whatever so 79 is what I'm [TS]

  entering here I think that is [TS]

  representative of my type you see I can [TS]

  go faster by like hammering away at that [TS]

  and get into the 80s or 90s but [TS]

  realistically speaking I'm not typing [TS]

  that fast I only kind of wish they asked [TS]

  this - right now this is cheating but if [TS]

  they asked us to write Perl code I think [TS]

  I would do a pretty good despite the [TS]

  fact that that I my hands are not in the [TS]

  right place I'm really good at dollar [TS]

  signs at signs curly braces in square [TS]

  brackets fastest dollar sign in the east [TS]

  you guys because I typed them so much I [TS]

  spent 20 years typing tremendous amount [TS]

  of dollar signs and parentheses and that [TS]

  signs in curly braces and despite the [TS]

  fact that I'm only in 79 anymore but [TS]

  it's not fast in the grand scheme of [TS]

  things I can also type without looking [TS]

  at the keyboard and words just coming up [TS]

  in code just comes out very often that [TS]

  will just mean you're staring at the [TS]

  screen and code is just coming out and [TS]

  not just that I'm going to the air [TS]

  because I type incorrectly I'm going to [TS]

  the arrow keys home and my hands are all [TS]

  over that keyboard and I'm just looking [TS]

  at the screen I'm selecting you know [TS]

  command option shift up/down arrow [TS]

  selecting text cut pasting you know like [TS]

  get in the zone I'm not fast when I'm [TS]

  doing it but it's not as if I'm staring [TS]

  the keyboard you know hunting and [TS]

  pecking yeah [TS]

  all right Marco tell me how much faster [TS]

  you were than the two of us [TS]

  so my first test just cold was 91 words [TS]

  for a minute it was not that accurate [TS]

  like basically I got slowed down a lot [TS]

  if I ever made any mistakes because like [TS]

  John like if a passage was written in a [TS]

  way that I wouldn't write it it would [TS]

  kind of trip me up a little bit I'd like [TS]

  go back like wait a minute like that [TS]

  didn't make sense we're like if it was [TS]

  something that flowed the way I would [TS]

  write something I was way faster so I [TS]

  took a second test a few minutes later [TS]

  at 1:25 then I got prompted for that [TS]

  human qualifier thing that that one was [TS]

  then it took two more I got 116 and 122 [TS]

  so it's kind of all over the place but I [TS]

  was the draw yeah it seems like me and [TS]

  you were in the same range yeah [TS]

  you guys are even you had that you had [TS]

  the correct mistakes right I've never [TS]

  never quite clear on that you weren't [TS]

  allowed to just blindly continue on [TS]

  right because I've lost a lot of time [TS]

  realizing that I had missed a comma or [TS]

  something like that and then having to [TS]

  like backspace and make sure I'm getting [TS]

  the right thing that I really ate up my [TS]

  time the other thing is like typing [TS]

  typing speed tests are fun little thing [TS]

  like this but I don't really I don't get [TS]

  a lot of value out of this because like [TS]

  there's very little time that I'm at my [TS]

  computer that I am typing at full blast [TS]

  for more than a few seconds because like [TS]

  I'm not like transcribing things or or [TS]

  like spewing out tons of paragraphs that [TS]

  that's the thing about these tasks [TS]

  they're asking you to transcribe which [TS]

  is something I never do on a computer [TS]

  and find incredibly tedious I'm always [TS]

  either writing words from my brain or [TS]

  writing code from my brain I'm never [TS]

  transcribing like so it is actually a [TS]

  very foreign skill for me for me to be [TS]

  typing something some words but that I'm [TS]

  reading off the screen like that's what [TS]

  copy and paste or for I'm a strong [TS]

  strong proponent of copy and paste that [TS]

  may give my few nuggets of copy and [TS]

  paste advice for the people as they [TS]

  already gave Rowling some these never [TS]

  type the process ID because you're just [TS]

  asking to kill the Royal if you like [TS]

  route on a system and you want to kill a [TS]

  process ID never type it no I just ran [TS]

  PS let me just transcribe that process [TS]

  ID you know you only have to like he'll [TS]

  kill the process ID belonging to some [TS]

  kernel thing to like halt your entire [TS]

  machine like you'll have to do that once [TS]

  you just just always copy and paste it [TS]

  always copy and paste any any piece of [TS]

  information you're you're entering like [TS]

  email addresses or the type of thing [TS]

  that's authentication information copy [TS]

  and paste it's obviously not passwords [TS]

  because you shouldn't be copying and [TS]

  pasting those but everything else copy [TS]

  and pasting code variable names copy and [TS]

  paste it the way you can tell if you [TS]

  correctly using copying places if you [TS]

  initially misspelled the variable it [TS]

  should be misspelled consistently [TS]

  through your entire file because you [TS]

  never typed it again through the [TS]

  auto-completed or copy and pasted it [TS]

  from elsewhere so copying base is your [TS]

  friend and I feel that people who are [TS]

  really fast type that's resist that was [TS]

  like I can retype it faster than I can [TS]

  copy and paste it you probably can you [TS]

  can also accidentally type it the wrong [TS]

  way because there's nothing's gonna [TS]

  highlight read for you like it doesn't [TS]

  lose typing des so [TS]

  what we've learned today is if you want [TS]

  us to do something stupid just swear [TS]

  that you'll donate a hundred dollars to [TS]

  charity and we never defined which [TS]

  charity somebody put the shownotes [TS]

  st. Jude I am totally fine with that I [TS]

  would also like to pitch as an option [TS]

  the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence [TS]

  which seems to be a pretty pertinent [TS]

  thing to donate a little money to these [TS]

  days or maybe by Yuriko relief efforts [TS]

  or Puerto Rico relief efforts so [TS]

  actually so yeah how about we'll go with [TS]

  those three Mike Bolton take your pick [TS]

  amongst whatever one of those three you [TS]

  would like to donate to and I will put [TS]

  at least me on the spot and say send me [TS]

  a receipt and I'll match it me to no [TS]

  pressure Johnny anyway I'll move on so [TS]

  you don't have to answer our charity [TS]

  stuff towards the end of the year but no [TS]

  problem we are sponsored this week by [TS]

  hollow pillow at hollow pillow comm [TS]

  slash a teepee hello makes these pretty [TS]

  cool buckwheat hull pillows so this is [TS]

  totally different from regular pillows [TS]

  that are filled with some kind of like [TS]

  soft springy material it's almost like a [TS]

  giant bean bag full of buckwheat hulls [TS]

  so it supports your head and neck [TS]

  however you set it up and it kind of [TS]

  just stays there it doesn't like slowly [TS]

  collapse over the course of the night or [TS]

  squish around it just stays where you [TS]

  put it it's also really cool like it [TS]

  helps you keep cool at night it doesn't [TS]

  get hot the way most pillow Phil does [TS]

  and so it is by far in my opinion they [TS]

  sent me a couple and it is by far the [TS]

  coolest feeling pillow I have ever used [TS]

  I loved that part of it it's really nice [TS]

  you can also add and remove buckwheat [TS]

  holes as you see fit so like if you if [TS]

  it's a little bit too big for you you [TS]

  want like a smaller or kind of looser [TS]

  filled pillow you can just unzip the [TS]

  side and pour some out or if you want [TS]

  more or if you want to kind of [TS]

  rejuvenate an old hollow pillow over [TS]

  time you can go to the website and just [TS]

  order more fill and just dump it in it's [TS]

  kind of amazing people have been [TS]

  sleeping on buckwheat pillows for [TS]

  centuries they've been used extensively [TS]

  in Japan and they remain relatively [TS]

  popular to this day and its really a [TS]

  more natural way to sleep because what [TS]

  are you laying your head on every night [TS]

  perhaps it's you know a bag of bird [TS]

  feathers so [TS]

  or sometimes they're petroleum-based [TS]

  foams that's no good hello is made in [TS]

  the USA with quality construction and [TS]

  quality buckwheat hulls and materials [TS]

  they have certified organic cotton cases [TS]

  that's cut and sewn for durability and [TS]

  the buckwheat is grown and milled in the [TS]

  United States so here's the deal you can [TS]

  sleep on a hollow pillow for 60 nights [TS]

  if it isn't for you just send it back [TS]

  and it'll give you a refund go to hollow [TS]

  pillow comm / ATP if you want to get [TS]

  more than one you can get a discount of [TS]

  up to 20 dollars per pillow depending on [TS]

  the size and every order comes with fast [TS]

  and free shipping and one percent of all [TS]

  profits are donated to the Nature [TS]

  Conservancy [TS]

  so check out hollow today at hollow [TS]

  pillow comm / ATP thank you so much to [TS]

  hollow it for sponsoring our show [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  alright so this is the portion of the [TS]

  show where in I take a little power [TS]

  snooze tell me about the new Amazon echo [TS]

  stuff and I say I'm gonna take a power [TS]

  sneeze because I bet you if I had an [TS]

  echo I would really like it but because [TS]

  I've never experienced it I don't really [TS]

  care but there's new echo news and [TS]

  there's new Sonos news as well so one of [TS]

  you take it away tell me what's going on [TS]

  alright so basically Amazon held like [TS]

  the secret event really at the event the [TS]

  existence of the event itself was [TS]

  embargoed which is hilarious the other [TS]

  day and they they announced a whole new [TS]

  line of echo products which is pretty [TS]

  cool you know I mean I've been a big fan [TS]

  of the echo not since it came out but [TS]

  since our friends got one and I saw it [TS]

  and used it myself at their house which [TS]

  is a big important distinction here for [TS]

  any kind of echo announcement when the [TS]

  echo first came out it came kind of out [TS]

  of nowhere and it had this really weird [TS]

  creepy promo video on Amazon site and we [TS]

  all the entire tech world relentlessly [TS]

  made fun of them for it and because it [TS]

  was it really did seem like the [TS]

  creepiest thing advertised and promoted [TS]

  in the creepiest way and it seemed like [TS]

  you know oh another crazy thing from the [TS]

  company that brought you the fire phone [TS]

  it turned out that the that it was [TS]

  actually really awesome and and that [TS]

  that the echo ends up being surprisingly [TS]

  useful and [TS]

  and just fun and very satisfying to have [TS]

  in our houses and as a result over the [TS]

  last couple years since I think came out [TS]

  two years ago maybe even three but as a [TS]

  result in the last couple years many [TS]

  people around these parts have gotten [TS]

  them and and they're quite fun last [TS]

  Christmas I know many of us gave them as [TS]

  gifts to family and stuff and only great [TS]

  things have you know reviews from family [TS]

  and everything about the echoes so very [TS]

  good product line however Amazon also [TS]

  releases a whole bunch of garbage like [TS]

  that they release a whole bunch of weird [TS]

  products they are kind of taking the [TS]

  like you know spaghetti against the wall [TS]

  approach to new echo hardware so they [TS]

  have all sorts of crazy things they [TS]

  launched the echo show which is the [TS]

  weird ugly thing with the screen they [TS]

  launched the echo look the weird bedroom [TS]

  camera we're supposed to take pictures [TS]

  of yourself getting dressed every day [TS]

  and those kind of fell on their face I [TS]

  don't know a lot of people who really [TS]

  enjoy those so you kind of don't know [TS]

  when Amazon announces something new in [TS]

  the echo world the initial reaction to [TS]

  things has very little bearing and the [TS]

  initial appearance of things really has [TS]

  very little bearing on how good they'll [TS]

  end up being and how much fun of liking [TS]

  them or how you know how well they will [TS]

  sell so Amazon announced a whole bunch [TS]

  of new echo stuff the other day and so [TS]

  now there is they kind of they finally [TS]

  revised the core product line there is [TS]

  finally a second generation of the the [TS]

  tall cylinder version of the echo that [TS]

  used to be the only version of the echo [TS]

  there is now a kind of shorter stubbier [TS]

  optionally cloth-covered cylinder and it [TS]

  looks almost like a tiny home pod and [TS]

  now there's also this little alarm clock [TS]

  thing with a circular screen that [TS]

  considering your nightstand but also has [TS]

  a camera so it's kind of like a mini [TS]

  echo show that can also be an alarm [TS]

  clock which is kind of interesting and [TS]

  well there's a whole bunch right phone [TS]

  calls it's like a it's like a bridge to [TS]

  your landlines that you can make calls [TS]

  using your echo that are routed over [TS]

  your hard wired LAN [TS]

  if you have them if you actually have a [TS]

  landline that's I think that's gonna go [TS]

  down into the weird category they were [TS]

  probably never gonna hear about again [TS]

  but I'm sure somebody will use it got [TS]

  the fire TV 4k right yeah and the new [TS]

  stick that hangs diagonally off your TV [TS]

  so so this is these are very different [TS]

  things I mean so the the fire TVs I [TS]

  don't know much about the fire TV world [TS]

  I bought a fire TV box like two years [TS]

  ago didn't really care for its UI at all [TS]

  so I ended up just selling it do you [TS]

  know do you use them in all John I [TS]

  forget no I've seen it my friend who has [TS]

  them and I looked at them they're not [TS]

  bad like you know the UI is very Amazon [TS]

  II but the performance is OK the remote [TS]

  is better than apples like it is it well [TS]

  that's right it is very similar to the [TS]

  old one and it's got like a ring on it [TS]

  but at least my recollection of the old [TS]

  fire TV thing it's not flat on the [TS]

  bottom it's more like shaped like a [TS]

  triangle so it actually sits in your [TS]

  hand a little bit like an actual remote [TS]

  right and it doesn't have a touchpad on [TS]

  the whole top of the thing anyway it's [TS]

  fine it has always been cheaper than the [TS]

  Apple TV and I would say like almost as [TS]

  good but of course you can't watch [TS]

  iTunes content on it so it was never [TS]

  anything that I was gonna get even maybe [TS]

  if you did 24 Hertz output I would have [TS]

  considered it to run like Plex on it or [TS]

  whatever but it doesn't seem like it [TS]

  never seemed like a speed demon [TS]

  certainly the Apple TV 4k feels faster [TS]

  the new one doesn't support Dolby vision [TS]

  which is kind of a shame but maybe [TS]

  they'll add that after the fact it does [TS]

  support Dolby Atmos which Apple TV 4k [TS]

  doesn't but I feel but I believe 4k is [TS]

  supposed to get that support but [TS]

  remember this is $100 cheaper than the [TS]

  Apple TV 4k it's not just like $15 [TS]

  cheaper it's significantly cheaper the [TS]

  form factor of what Mark was alluding to [TS]

  before that it dangles off your TV it is [TS]

  like an HDMI connector a ribbon cable [TS]

  and then a box hanging from its corner [TS]

  off of the ribbon cable on the ribbon [TS]

  cable is like three inches long so this [TS]

  is not a box you put in your [TS]

  entertainment center it is a thing that [TS]

  you hang off the back of your TV which [TS]

  is kind of interesting I have actually [TS]

  have a Google what is it called the [TS]

  Google thing that hangs off the back [TS]

  yard [TS]

  the chromecast right the hang off your [TS]

  back of the back of your TV you think [TS]

  it's neat it's like an acknowledgment [TS]

  that we can make this thing so small [TS]

  there's no reason it has to be in your [TS]

  entertainment center but it's also not [TS]

  meet in the neat and tidy sense and that [TS]

  you have this little thing hanging off [TS]

  your TV and just always hangs awkwardly [TS]

  and you're hoping that no one has a view [TS]

  of that television like what if your [TS]

  television is in a place where someone [TS]

  walking through the room can see the [TS]

  side of it now you get this thing [TS]

  hanging off it it's just it's just not [TS]

  tidy it's unseemly it's like a wart like [TS]

  purposely adding a wart to your thing [TS]

  never mind that you know the idea of [TS]

  hanging even a small amount of weight [TS]

  off of the end of your HDMI port I [TS]

  suppose it's probably weighs less than a [TS]

  very long cord but either way thumbs [TS]

  down on that form factor but as far as [TS]

  you know people who don't have any [TS]

  investment at all in the iTunes world [TS]

  this vs. Roku and stuff they're all [TS]

  reasonable choices I would have no [TS]

  problem recommending a fire TV for [TS]

  someone who wants to have to look at [TS]

  Amazon content and to have access to be [TS]

  able to watch YouTube on a TV and [TS]

  Netflix if they happen to have one of [TS]

  the televisions it doesn't have that [TS]

  crap all built in or if they have a [TS]

  television where that's all built in but [TS]

  the builds and apps are terrible the [TS]

  fire TV apps are better than the [TS]

  built-in ones on most televisions so [TS]

  it's an okay product I don't think it'll [TS]

  change things up I think it's just you [TS]

  know status quo I have a fire TV stick I [TS]

  think it's the original generation and I [TS]

  hadn't used it in probably a year and [TS]

  then had wanted to get it like all [TS]

  updated and whatnot before we went to [TS]

  one to the beach couple months back and [TS]

  doing that update took like a day [TS]

  because I had to do an update wait [TS]

  reboot do an update wait reboot it was [TS]

  like updating windows for goodness sakes [TS]

  but the new revamped UI that came with [TS]

  it was very nice and as a portable thing [TS]

  that that's easy to travel with I love [TS]

  my fire TV stick as something that's an [TS]

  alternative to say an Apple TV no thank [TS]

  you [TS]

  I'd much rather have an Apple TV but the [TS]

  user interface is fine it got a lot [TS]

  better with this revamp that happened [TS]

  sometime in the last 12 months and it's [TS]

  fast enough to do the sorts of things I [TS]

  want to do but it is if I was living [TS]

  with it everyday like especially your [TS]

  situation Marco [TS]

  you're all of your TV consumption [TS]

  happens via some sort of box I would not [TS]

  recommend if I our TV stick now that is [TS]

  very different than than the 4k which [TS]

  presumably is considerably faster better [TS]

  etc but in terms of UI it's fine [TS]

  etc but in terms of UI it's fine [TS]

  yeah so anyway the whole amazon firetv [TS]

  thing is not an area that i play in but [TS]

  the echo very much is and so all of [TS]

  these new echoes I'm really glad that [TS]

  app that Amazon is finally doing more [TS]

  with like just the base model echo like [TS]

  not just making new weird accessory [TS]

  versions and different things are [TS]

  different that serve different roles but [TS]

  also just finally revving the main [TS]

  speaker the main problem the echo has [TS]

  always had for me is well it's not the [TS]

  most attractive thing in the world but [TS]

  but the main problem for me has always [TS]

  been that it doesn't sound very good [TS]

  like the sound it doesn't get that loud [TS]

  and the sound quality is not very good [TS]

  it because it really is just it's it's [TS]

  one speaker pointed downwards above a [TS]

  second driver for being a woofer it's [TS]

  like a single tweeter and single woofer [TS]

  they point down and they don't sound [TS]

  very good the microphones have always [TS]

  been excellent it doesn't seem to have [TS]

  trouble hearing me compare to anything [TS]

  else but the sound quality is just [TS]

  really poor and it really says a lot [TS]

  about how convenient the echo is and how [TS]

  compelling the whole package is that we [TS]

  listen to by like with the exception of [TS]

  like my desk with headphones like while [TS]

  I'm working while we're out in the house [TS]

  we listen to far more music on the echo [TS]

  even though it sounds like crap than any [TS]

  other mechanism by which we have to play [TS]

  music and that includes like we have a [TS]

  whole like nice speaker setup with an [TS]

  Apple TV that could feed it through [TS]

  airplay if we wanted to or the Apple TV [TS]

  playing music itself we have Sonos which [TS]

  we'll get to and we never use these [TS]

  things to play music comparably speaking [TS]

  because the echo is just so much more [TS]

  convenient to just say hey name a thing [TS]

  you know play fish and that's it or you [TS]

  know play a song from the mind these are [TS]

  like it's just really really nice and [TS]

  compelling to use that so much so that [TS]

  we've been willing to overlook the [TS]

  relatively poor sound quality because [TS]

  most people simply don't care and an [TS]

  even I who do care I'd rather just have [TS]

  it be easy then to have to set up some [TS]

  fiddly thing on a better a better nice [TS]

  system to echo that ha ha yeah home but [TS]

  it's the same thing it's got a terrible [TS]

  speaker in it like it's probably worse [TS]

  than the echo it's so you know the [TS]

  Google home is actually even smaller [TS]

  than the big echo and I think probably [TS]

  just got one terrible speaker in there [TS]

  does not sound good and yet when my [TS]

  daughter has her friends over all they [TS]

  do is that's I think to play music like [TS]

  that is their favorite activity more [TS]

  music has been played on that thing than [TS]

  any other device in our house easily and [TS]

  that's like you know because again we [TS]

  have I've got the my television speakers [TS]

  and you could play things through the [TS]

  Apple TV on the television or through [TS]

  the receiver on the television without [TS]

  even turning the television on but they [TS]

  just they just wanted to talk to the [TS]

  thing and make it play songs because [TS]

  like what other you know they just say [TS]

  words in the air speculatively and it [TS]

  finds the song that they want and plays [TS]

  it and they love it even though it [TS]

  sounds like crap [TS]

  and I will say to like I I have been [TS]

  trying to give Siri more chances in my [TS]

  life because everyone keeps saying how [TS]

  good it is how good it's getting how [TS]

  it's so much better than it used to be [TS]

  and so I have tried in many occasions [TS]

  recently to have Siri play me music as [TS]

  well [TS]

  to just kind of get a sense you know so [TS]

  I'll issue it's similar queries like you [TS]

  know play songs by cake or whatever like [TS]

  I out issue it a fairly simple music [TS]

  query and Siri gets it right about a [TS]

  quarter of the time and that's our it's [TS]

  really frustrating whereas the echo gets [TS]

  it right almost every time it's really [TS]

  quite shocking how different the two are [TS]

  in reliability and speed and just the [TS]

  the the sensibility of responses for [TS]

  things like music yeah similarly Google [TS]

  home like my daughter and her friends [TS]

  say things like play song whatever but [TS]

  the one with whatever in it like there [TS]

  are variants of songs or multiple [TS]

  artists covered them and they will say a [TS]

  sentence describing the song they want [TS]

  and it will find the thing for them and [TS]

  not only that it will say okay I found [TS]

  blah blah blah featuring blah blah blah [TS]

  like I don't know if it's just doing [TS]

  fuzzy word matching of finding like song [TS]

  title plus the name of the person they [TS]

  said but they ramble on these whole [TS]

  sentences and I'm [TS]

  I'm amazed it finds the song that they [TS]

  were asking about when I don't think a [TS]

  human could have found it a Google [TS]

  search literally doing a Google search [TS]

  and taking the first hit but the fact [TS]

  that it works is all is magic like and [TS]

  saying that the Siri it would just be [TS]

  this word salad of misheard you know you [TS]

  know it doesn't you say stuff and [TS]

  doesn't understand what you say it would [TS]

  assemble that and then it would be like [TS]

  I'm sorry I can't help with that because [TS]

  it doesn't I don't think it has the [TS]

  fallback of can't make heads or tails [TS]

  this throat into the magic that is [TS]

  Google and try the number one hit yeah [TS]

  exactly [TS]

  well and I mean and these systems like [TS]

  like the the Amazon assistant I don't [TS]

  know if Google does this to it probably [TS]

  does but you can it even does lyrics [TS]

  search you can say play the song that [TS]

  goes blah and it will it will search for [TS]

  those lyrics and it's like it's just [TS]

  incredible how good it is and honestly [TS]

  one of the reasons why I am not that [TS]

  excited about the home pod is that I [TS]

  know like just judging on on how Siri [TS]

  does if you have an iPhone or an iPad or [TS]

  an Apple TV giving it these same queries [TS]

  I know that these other systems going to [TS]

  be better than it in in the image in [TS]

  that regard at least you go do the [TS]

  chained chaining the assistance to talk [TS]

  to each other so felt like you know [TS]

  dingus tell the other dingus to play [TS]

  songs by whatever you know this big [TS]

  chain get let the smart ones figure out [TS]

  what song you want and convey to the one [TS]

  with a good speaker to play it now so [TS]

  that is actually a great segue into [TS]

  thanks John [TS]

  so today you know we've had a couple [TS]

  days to digest this echo stuff but today [TS]

  there was a Sonos announcement so nose [TS]

  has has made wonderful sounding speakers [TS]

  and and very like they're basically [TS]

  products that are designed to be sold in [TS]

  Apple stores it's like I know they [TS]

  weren't officially but like they are [TS]

  really really like high-end speakers [TS]

  well they're they're high-priced [TS]

  speakers that sound pretty good and and [TS]

  that had they don't sound like amazing [TS]

  incredible like compared to [TS]

  like high-end audiophile speakers but [TS]

  for consumer for consumer grade I guess [TS]

  gear they sound very good and you know [TS]

  compared to all these other like you [TS]

  know smart cylinders they sound great [TS]

  and Sonos has been around for a very [TS]

  long time and they've they have focused [TS]

  mainly on multi-room audio and and and [TS]

  this kind of like library management of [TS]

  things and in fact much of the benefit [TS]

  of airplay to is what sone has have been [TS]

  doing all this time we're basically like [TS]

  it it hands off the playback to the [TS]

  speaker itself so like you're not just [TS]

  playing a constant stream from the phone [TS]

  like you're telling the speaker here's [TS]

  this file play it or here's the next you [TS]

  know 15 minutes of audio play it or go [TS]

  to this URL and just play what you find [TS]

  there because they're all networked [TS]

  which is nice it has lots of benefits [TS]

  like you know if you if you like if one [TS]

  person like leaves the house with the [TS]

  phone that was controlling it the music [TS]

  doesn't stop and it doesn't skip if you [TS]

  like you know bend over and your your [TS]

  waste is blocking your pocket or [TS]

  something I like it's a really nice [TS]

  architecture and it also makes things [TS]

  like multi-room audio significantly [TS]

  easier to do and so anyway so one has [TS]

  had this for years and years and years [TS]

  and and they really have owned the like [TS]

  high-end multi-room audio market the [TS]

  main problem with Sonos in recent years [TS]

  is that when the echo came out [TS]

  everyone's like well it's a lot easier [TS]

  used it means playing stuff through [TS]

  sonís is cumbersome because their app [TS]

  is really quite poor it's it's [TS]

  unintuitive it's incredibly complicated [TS]

  because it can do so much and it's laid [TS]

  out in a not that intuitive way honestly [TS]

  it feels like an Android app and I and I [TS]

  don't mean much disrespect by that but [TS]

  it just feels like it feels like an app [TS]

  design by like the windows and Android [TS]

  aesthetic and and so it's just very [TS]

  cumbersome to play stuff on a sono [TS]

  system even though when you finally do [TS]

  it sounds great and you can do multi [TS]

  room start really easily and stuff like [TS]

  that so the echo comes out and it's [TS]

  really crappy at sound quality and [TS]

  initially doesn't have multi-room audio [TS]

  support but it's really really really [TS]

  really easy to get to [TS]

  playing you can say what you want it [TS]

  just starts playing and it turns out [TS]

  that's incredibly compelling as we said [TS]

  earlier and so many Sonos owners myself [TS]

  included our sono stuff has basically [TS]

  been gathering dust [TS]

  ever since the who came out so today [TS]

  Sonos announced that they have partnered [TS]

  with Amazon at some seemingly fairly [TS]

  deep level and they announced they [TS]

  announced a partnership like months ago [TS]

  but who knew if any one thing was ever [TS]

  to come out of it well now it is they [TS]

  now have a version of what used to be [TS]

  called the play one speaker their their [TS]

  lowest and smallest little like it's [TS]

  like a little cube almost speaker [TS]

  they now have a version of that that is [TS]

  basically also an echo inside of it has [TS]

  the little microphone ring up top and a [TS]

  couple of extra buttons and now they [TS]

  basically have a Sonos echo and they [TS]

  also have integration with the echo [TS]

  assistant platform so that you can like [TS]

  have you can like tell your echoes to [TS]

  play things on your Sonos and stuff like [TS]

  that like I haven't forgive me I haven't [TS]

  looked into too many details on that yet [TS]

  because I haven't a time yet because [TS]

  it's all they're talking about today so [TS]

  some of those some of the finer details [TS]

  of this might be wrong or incomplete but [TS]

  basically they announced what looks like [TS]

  surprisingly deep and comprehensive [TS]

  integration between the echo products [TS]

  and Sonos products along with this new [TS]

  sono speaker that has a built-in echo [TS]

  and if this works as they are [TS]

  advertising it's gonna be awesome and [TS]

  it's actually not that ridiculous of a [TS]

  price to like the the the new Sonos one [TS]

  which is their their new version of the [TS]

  play one speaker is 200 bucks and it's [TS]

  it's positioned roughly like market-wise [TS]

  roughly where like the tall echo [TS]

  cylinder is positioned it's not supposed [TS]

  to be a home pod competitor the the home [TS]

  Pug competitor is it's kind of supposed [TS]

  to be their next one up which they [TS]

  haven't updated with with Alexa yet [TS]

  sorry with the Amazon assistant so it [TS]

  looks like a home pod to me it is a [TS]

  single thing with one speaker you know [TS]

  with you know one set of speakers in it [TS]

  it's about the same size of the home pot [TS]

  is it just [TS]

  it's like a hundred and something bucks [TS]

  cheaper like it seems like a home pod [TS]

  competitor to me well it's it's going to [TS]

  serve as a home buck competitor [TS]

  effectively but one of the reasons why [TS]

  Apple when they were doing like price [TS]

  comparisons like they position the home [TS]

  pot against the Sonos play 3 the next [TS]

  speaker up that's more expensive and I [TS]

  think part of that is because the play [TS]

  one only has one driver or has it's just [TS]

  like the echo it has it has the two [TS]

  drivers that is just like forming one [TS]

  channel whereas the home pod has like [TS]

  that didn't the home pot have like [TS]

  tweeters in a big circle around the [TS]

  whole top of it and maybe and like one [TS]

  big Wolfer in the middle or something [TS]

  like that but like how does how does [TS]

  that change the sound like it's still [TS]

  you're not getting stereo out of it [TS]

  we've talked about this before about how [TS]

  it's doing all the channels through the [TS]

  single location so you're not getting [TS]

  our right channel a left channel too [TS]

  separated by six feet for me to one of [TS]

  these devices well it's the when you [TS]

  when you only have a single driver set [TS]

  pointing in a pointing in one direction [TS]

  you can't really do anything with you [TS]

  know stereo imaging like it's gonna be [TS]

  mono but the home pod is kind of this [TS]

  weird hybrid where like because it has [TS]

  drivers pointing all around it [TS]

  it can do things by like bouncing stuff [TS]

  off the walls and everything to try to [TS]

  kind of simulate things in different [TS]

  directions it actually is firing sound [TS]

  in multiple directions whereas the Sonos [TS]

  one series only fires it straight ahead [TS]

  and the echo fires one set of drivers [TS]

  straight down so it kind of has like a [TS]

  ring effect but it can't control like [TS]

  what goes left what goes right so these [TS]

  other things are effectively mono [TS]

  whereas the home pod and the higher end [TS]

  Sonos models have multiple speakers that [TS]

  they could you know adjust interact in [TS]

  different ways so I think it's it in [TS]

  practice this is a home pod competitor [TS]

  in the same way the echos a home pod [TS]

  competitor but if you ask Apple [TS]

  marketing like what is the home BA [TS]

  competing against they're gonna go with [TS]

  the higher-end models in part because of [TS]

  those technicalities in part because of [TS]

  just sheer physical size and in part [TS]

  because they're more expensive yeah the [TS]

  play 3 looks more like the iPod hi-fi [TS]

  like it's rectangular thing yeah so [TS]

  anyway this is good I hope I really hope [TS]

  this works [TS]

  and I hope that it [TS]

  smartthings integrating with it so like [TS]

  for instance I already have other so no [TS]

  speakers I have a few other ones [TS]

  throughout the house you know and I can [TS]

  I only buy one of these things do I even [TS]

  have to buy any of these things or can I [TS]

  just have the echos connectivist so [TS]

  notices through the apps I think they [TS]

  can do that actually but I don't know [TS]

  yet so this is I have a lot of research [TS]

  to do and and we have a lot of you know [TS]

  just no one has actually used this [TS]

  device that I don't think that any [TS]

  reviews except there was one on wired [TS]

  that was kind of not that specific so I [TS]

  don't know we'll see but I hope this [TS]

  works as well as they're advertising it [TS]

  does because if it does this is going to [TS]

  be a total game changer in the echo [TS]

  market because it will be finally a [TS]

  fusion between the good sounding world [TS]

  of Sonos and they're really convenient [TS]

  world of echo it's gonna be a problem [TS]

  for the home planet I think I mean the [TS]

  home part is already you know given [TS]

  given the home pods price and relatively [TS]

  limited apparent capabilities I think [TS]

  the home pod is gonna have a hard time [TS]

  in the market now I think it's gonna [TS]

  have an even harder time than before [TS]

  because if this works at all the Sonos [TS]

  play:1 is earthís sorry this is the [TS]

  Sonos one the new one with the echo [TS]

  built in is going to be a very [TS]

  compelling alternative for a lot of [TS]

  people a lot of people are asking after [TS]

  the story came out of wasn't amazon just [TS]

  buy some of us they seem to buy [TS]

  everybody like this type of integration [TS]

  this type of partnership is practically [TS]

  unheard of like it's basically someone [TS]

  was saying we're never gonna do all this [TS]

  stuff than amazon does an amazon [TS]

  apparently saying we don't want to build [TS]

  a really nice speaker well just well our [TS]

  new version of as you noted the new [TS]

  verse the new good version of the echo [TS]

  didn't really make a lot of progress [TS]

  sound well these little Dolby like oh [TS]

  we'll make it sound better but they [TS]

  didn't change the hardware in a way that [TS]

  makes it sound like they are serious [TS]

  about audio quality they're just weak [TS]

  you know but like so they say okay well [TS]

  so unless you do the sound part and we [TS]

  will do the software part I'm not [TS]

  entirely sure what's in it for Amazon to [TS]

  continue that relationship like why why [TS]

  not you know those nice prod [TS]

  what's that somos is making by selling [TS]

  expensive speakers why does it have a [TS]

  son want those two like it arguably [TS]

  Amazon is providing the majority of the [TS]

  value in this arrangement because I [TS]

  think it is easier to make a nice [TS]

  speaker than it is to make a thing that [TS]

  understands words that you say and does [TS]

  intelligent things like they've got all [TS]

  the backend that is finding that music [TS]

  for you and you know playing it back and [TS]

  the music subscription service and all [TS]

  those other things making a speaker [TS]

  compared to that is relatively easy and [TS]

  I suppose so noses you know secret sauce [TS]

  is the multi-room stuff but anyway there [TS]

  seems to be a natural synergy between [TS]

  these companies and given the fact that [TS]

  Amazon bought things like IMDB and other [TS]

  companies that it like seemed like it [TS]

  should be or Whole Foods right by like [TS]

  that just by Sonos like what are you [TS]

  even waiting for it makes me [TS]

  uncomfortable as a consumer if I was [TS]

  into these type of products to know that [TS]

  I'm buying a thing between two companies [TS]

  that are you know that are that are [TS]

  frenemies right there they're [TS]

  competitors but they're also in this [TS]

  mutually beneficial arrangement and I [TS]

  just it just seems like there's a [TS]

  tension there and I'm not sure how that [TS]

  that is sustainable so I'm you know not [TS]

  that I'm for you know big companies [TS]

  buying up all the small companies but [TS]

  some has kind of had its chance to [TS]

  figure out the you know make something [TS]

  that you can talk to and they've [TS]

  essentially outsourced it to Amazon so I [TS]

  don't know yeah I don't I'm with you I [TS]

  don't I don't see why Amazon gets a [TS]

  knife out of this deal to make it worth [TS]

  it like even like the integration it's [TS]

  it's it's such that also like when I [TS]

  went to go pre-order the the Sonos one [TS]

  today you can't apply it on Amazon thank [TS]

  you good bye every other service on [TS]

  Amazon but this one you can pre-order [TS]

  only on so Knossos website right now [TS]

  it's like they couldn't even coordinate [TS]

  that can you like order toilet paper [TS]

  from there so most one I the way it's [TS]

  advertised and the way they the way the [TS]

  product page positions it it looks like [TS]

  it has full echo integration like or a [TS]

  full echo built into it basically so you [TS]

  I think you should be able to do [TS]

  everything the echo can do so I don't [TS]

  it's that's something it's very a lot of [TS]

  this will depend on like when we [TS]

  actually get these things like does it [TS]

  actually do those [TS]

  is it actually as good you know what if [TS]

  there's other problems like what if the [TS]

  microphones aren't as good as I'm not [TS]

  real like oh you know like there's [TS]

  there's gonna be issues like that but [TS]

  the good thing is that like if if this [TS]

  integration works the way it appears to [TS]

  on all their advertisements and in the [TS]

  apps and everything you might not even [TS]

  need to buy the Sonos one like it for [TS]

  what everyone's saying you can just [TS]

  connect your Sonos account in the em in [TS]

  the Alexa app and just start sending [TS]

  commands to it and you can just start [TS]

  controlling them like that's that's kind [TS]

  of incredible if that's true and so like [TS]

  I can't like I don't this will all [TS]

  depend on how well this stuff is [TS]

  implemented but yeah basically ask again [TS]

  in a couple weeks but I'm really happy [TS]

  about this as recently as two months ago [TS]

  I was saying that I would be surprised [TS]

  if so notice was still in business in a [TS]

  year because it seemed like things [TS]

  weren't going well for them but this [TS]

  could really turn things around for them [TS]

  if if this makes a lot of people buy [TS]

  more sono stuff and also you know what [TS]

  one area that maybe maybe that we're not [TS]

  seeing by looking at just the speaker [TS]

  like the little portable speaker side of [TS]

  this thing one area in which maybe [TS]

  Amazon wanted to get in that they [TS]

  couldn't easily do themselves is home [TS]

  theater so knows in recent years has [TS]

  dramatically gotten into the home [TS]

  theater business with their soundbar [TS]

  products and then later on like the the [TS]

  subwoofer that played they got the play [TS]

  bass in the subwoofer their names are a [TS]

  little confusing so I forget which is [TS]

  which but they launched their first [TS]

  sound bar a couple years back and I [TS]

  think they have a second one I don't [TS]

  even know anymore but I think those [TS]

  actually sell really well and so notice [TS]

  I think that's pretty well in the in the [TS]

  sound bar business now so if Amazon [TS]

  wanted to get more like echo music [TS]

  playback into home theater systems maybe [TS]

  this is what they get out of this deal [TS]

  maybe they get access to this market of [TS]

  high-end home theater stuff that that [TS]

  the the echo hardware being this kind of [TS]

  like you know inexpensive kind of crappy [TS]

  audio products we're probably never [TS]

  going to get into that business we our [TS]

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  sponsoring our show all right come back [TS]

  ready talk about alarm clocks Casey I am [TS]

  so excited to talk about alarm clocks [TS]

  tell me more this is just a coincidence [TS]

  I did not have any inside information [TS]

  about Amazon's product announcements but [TS]

  a show or two ago I mentioned offhand [TS]

  how I was looking for something to [TS]

  replace my you know clock radio from the [TS]

  80s they would just perform one function [TS]

  that wouldn't be you know I wasn't going [TS]

  to use my iOS devices would potentially [TS]

  travel around the house and after [TS]

  remembered [TS]

  put away a bedside and plug-in just want [TS]

  something I was always on my bedside [TS]

  that then I could look at and always [TS]

  showed me the time and then had an alarm [TS]

  on it and that's about it and what [TS]

  Amazon came out with is this little ball [TS]

  thing it's like the Amazon echo show and [TS]

  that it's like a screen and it shows you [TS]

  the weather and tells you what time it [TS]

  is and I guess shows you new stories [TS]

  that you don't want to see in a noisy [TS]

  with all the other stuff like that but [TS]

  anyway it's got a circular screen on it [TS]

  and it's 130 bucks and it's basically a [TS]

  smart dedicated looks like an alarm [TS]

  clock thing and a lot of people are [TS]

  saying hey is what you're asking for [TS]

  someone probably not Apple to make some [TS]

  kind of dedicated alarm clock electronic [TS]

  component thing and guess what Amazon [TS]

  did it because Jason Snow I think his [TS]

  article about it god bless Amazon with [TS]

  her at every single form factoring [TS]

  seeing what people might buy hey that's [TS]

  the thing that Amazon does they they [TS]

  just make a bunch of crap and you know [TS]

  maybe people like this maybe they won't [TS]

  we'll just keep trying it's cute I'll [TS]

  give it that but and you know hundred [TS]

  thirty dollars is kind of ridiculous but [TS]

  the thing that makes it makes me pretty [TS]

  sure I'm never gonna buy this is that it [TS]

  has a camera on it and I'm not one of [TS]

  those people who's paranoid about [TS]

  cameras but of all the places I'm not [TS]

  gonna stick a camera of dubious security [TS]

  it's next to my bed [TS]

  sorry Amazon if this thing didn't have a [TS]

  camera then I would probably still not [TS]

  buy it because my next fallback position [TS]

  would be Marco hated the screen and it [TS]

  was really annoying and this has the [TS]

  same screen so unless someone told me [TS]

  though the screen they solved that [TS]

  problem you can make it to the screen [TS]

  it's not annoying or not too bright or [TS]

  whatever I probably still won't get by [TS]

  the camera no deal for me and that's [TS]

  despite the fact that when we talked [TS]

  about the Amazon look the thing that it [TS]

  takes pictures of your outfits and stuff [TS]

  that I totally endorse the idea of [TS]

  having more cameras in the house for [TS]

  functions like that but for me [TS]

  personally my bedside table is a no-go [TS]

  that's just my position if you don't [TS]

  mind it and if you're not concerned [TS]

  about security or whatever then by all [TS]

  means go for it and tell me how annoying [TS]

  is but I'm not getting this thing that's [TS]

  a different lifestyle I mean I think [TS]

  there's a theme of my opinions of Amazon [TS]

  products basically and [TS]

  is that when Amazon does things that are [TS]

  related to sheer functionality or voice [TS]

  response and voice interfaces I really [TS]

  like the way they do things most of the [TS]

  time when it comes to UI I really don't [TS]

  like almost any visual interface that [TS]

  Amazon makes the echo show I really did [TS]

  not like this thing I think would have [TS]

  the exact same problem as you mentioned [TS]

  with just like you know like it takes a [TS]

  certain degree of standards and and [TS]

  taste and good decision-making to to do [TS]

  a user interface like this well and I [TS]

  don't think Amazon has that talent right [TS]

  now or at least they don't let it shine [TS]

  they it they just they have not shown [TS]

  that they could make a good interface [TS]

  the Kindles have always been interface [TS]

  disasters the only reason anybody [TS]

  enjoyed using Kindles is because for [TS]

  most of the you know heyday of the black [TS]

  and white ink models they there just [TS]

  wasn't much of an interface there so [TS]

  like Amazon's mediocrity at interface [TS]

  design was less of a problem with this [TS]

  primitive thing that just couldn't do [TS]

  that much but you know they have gotten [TS]

  progressively more and more annoying as [TS]

  the technology has gotten better and now [TS]

  they have these full-color screens it [TS]

  the interface design is about as good as [TS]

  it is on their tablets and their TV [TS]

  boxes which is not that good so this is [TS]

  the kind of product that if Apple made [TS]

  something like this it would it might be [TS]

  really good although you could argue [TS]

  they do it's an Apple watch a night [TS]

  stand mode but you know or an iPhone and [TS]

  the doc anyway yeah this is nothing this [TS]

  is the kind of thing that I don't think [TS]

  Amazon should make with their current [TS]

  talent and also you know the camera I [TS]

  think is going to be one of the most [TS]

  turnoff --is-- factors of it why does [TS]

  this need a camera and the only reason I [TS]

  can think of is they really want to push [TS]

  their like video calling thing they like [TS]

  they're trying obviously very hard to [TS]

  make that a thing even though I don't [TS]

  think anybody actually wants it but if [TS]

  this didn't have the camera not only [TS]

  could it maybe be five bucks cheaper but [TS]

  I think more people would buy it laughs [TS]

  a camera than anybody who's gonna buy it [TS]

  with the camera this seems like one of [TS]

  those like corporate strategy tax thing [TS]

  for like they're obviously trying so [TS]

  hard to push calling people on the [TS]

  echoes that they're putting the cameras [TS]

  and all these different models that like [TS]

  really probably shouldn't have them and [TS]

  I think this would be a much better [TS]

  product about it so yeah I just I don't [TS]

  see this being a good thing with the [TS]

  combination of the camera and Amazon's [TS]

  terrible UI taste but the concept is a [TS]

  good concept and I hope someone Amazon [TS]

  or not does it right cuz I think that [TS]

  would be a really nice market maybe put [TS]

  in a kitchen wouldn't be as bad there's [TS]

  nothing that says this is supposed to be [TS]

  on your bedside table that's just the [TS]

  where I was interested in putting it but [TS]

  if you put in your kitchen it is less [TS]

  ugly and gigantic or I don't know how [TS]

  gigantic it is because I don't have one [TS]

  but it's like the other one certainly [TS]

  looks like I know it's not actually that [TS]

  big when you get it in person but it's [TS]

  like it's like a right rectangular [TS]

  monolith this is a cute little ball and [TS]

  so maybe you would fit in more places in [TS]

  people's lives and the camera because [TS]

  it's so cheap it just feels like a hedge [TS]

  like maybe we will think of something [TS]

  cool to do with this or maybe you can [TS]

  hold things up to it and we'll find them [TS]

  on Amazon and buy them for you you know [TS]

  and that is the video conferencing angle [TS]

  too but the camera just gives you a lot [TS]

  of possibilities so I understand why [TS]

  it's there it's just it for me it makes [TS]

  it a not a choice for the bedroom but [TS]

  for something in the kitchen or whatever [TS]

  that's where I wouldn't mind it I [TS]

  already have a camera my kitchen to [TS]

  watch my dog so I'm obviously that's not [TS]

  a problem for me so here's what I just [TS]

  noticed in the in the specs of the of [TS]

  the of this little ball thing it has a [TS]

  line out for sound that's interesting so [TS]

  that basically makes it a fancy [TS]

  expensive echo dot so so if so you could [TS]

  use this to add a small screen to a [TS]

  smart speaker somewhere in your house [TS]

  like if you take it out of the bedroom [TS]

  that I think makes it a more interesting [TS]

  proposition anyway so I wish them luck [TS]

  with these things and we'll see I mean [TS]

  probably next year between me between me [TS]

  and John Casey Anna you're not gonna buy [TS]

  any of these things but between me and [TS]

  John [TS]

  we're probably gonna own one of each of [TS]

  these things that means you're gonna buy [TS]

  every single one because I don't think [TS]

  I'm buying any of these yeah just wait [TS]

  I mean I've thought about having another [TS]

  having an echo and the Google home in [TS]

  the house at the same time yeah I don't [TS]

  know I think I'm what I'm more likely to [TS]

  do at this point is buy more cameras [TS]

  from my house more dedicated cameras [TS]

  because now that I have one to watch the [TS]

  dog I'm like I can get a better angle on [TS]

  the dog when she's in a different room [TS]

  like maybe a second camera or something [TS]

  like that or maybe I'll finally get into [TS]

  like the the light bulbs and stuff and [TS]

  then I'll get an echo in some other room [TS]

  to do light control but but we'll see no [TS]

  none of these are making me want to run [TS]

  out and buy any of them I'll let you buy [TS]

  all of them and tell me what they're [TS]

  like okay thanks I'm back again what did [TS]

  I miss [TS]

  thanks to our sponsors this week Casper [TS]

  betterment and hello and we will see you [TS]

  next week now the show is over [TS]

  they didn't even mean to begin as it was [TS]

  accidental oh it was accidental John [TS]

  research Marco and Casey wouldn't let [TS]

  because it was accidentally was [TS]

  accidental and you can find the show [TS]

  notes at ADP FM and if you're into [TS]

  Twitter you can follow them [TS]

  CAS II WA L is s so that's Casey list [TS]

  and a are Co AR m and T Marco Arment [TS]

  si R Syracuse [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  yeah what we got for the after show [TS]

  fancy chairs oh yeah this time it was [TS]

  John that's spent an exorbitant amount [TS]

  of money yeah it got a lot of chair [TS]

  issues in my little computer room that [TS]

  also has my ps4 in it I've got a chair [TS]

  in front of my wife's computer which is [TS]

  a value a iMac I've got a chair in front [TS]

  of my old Mac Pro and I've got a third [TS]

  chair in front of my ps4 all right play [TS]

  destiny and all these chairs are bad [TS]

  chairs two of them two of them are bad [TS]

  chairs one of them is just really old so [TS]

  my wife's chair is some crappy like [TS]

  OfficeMax staples whatever cheap chair [TS]

  that is actually not even good for the [TS]

  amount that we paid for it like well it [TS]

  was a cheap but it's okay it's it [TS]

  wobbles it was never very comfortable [TS]

  it's ugly it's just not a good chair the [TS]

  ps4 chair is like not actually a chair [TS]

  that's supposed to be in front of a desk [TS]

  it's like sort of a casual I don't know [TS]

  what it is like it's not like a folding [TS]

  chair what you take out one company [TS]

  comes over but it's like one step remove [TS]

  note it's not a folding chair but it is [TS]

  like it's not a computer chair at all [TS]

  and I don't like it because it puts [TS]

  weird marks on the carpet and we have [TS]

  like a pillow on top of it to make it [TS]

  marginally comfortable and like it's [TS]

  kind of falling apart so that's not [TS]

  great and then finally my computer chair [TS]

  which is the one I'm excluding from [TS]

  calling a bad chair it's just it's seen [TS]

  better days [TS]

  I bought this chair for $250 which seems [TS]

  like a huge amount of money when I lived [TS]

  in Georgia which was at least what 20 [TS]

  years ago right and you know I was just [TS]

  out of school just married living in our [TS]

  first apartment [TS]

  you know away from home we did buying [TS]

  furniture first off I bought myself a [TS]

  desk which I'm not using anymore [TS]

  actually I was using it but well the [TS]

  desk and all I was using so that thing [TS]

  survived and I needed to get a chair for [TS]

  it and I spent what I thought was a lot [TS]

  of money $250 for a chair in like [TS]

  1997-98 boy that's a lot of money in the [TS]

  grand scheme of things it's not that [TS]

  expensive but anyway that $250 chair has [TS]

  lasted me [TS]

  you know 20 years and it still works [TS]

  okay the cushion is absolutely shot it [TS]

  is shredded and it also any foam that [TS]

  might have been in there is compressed [TS]

  you know beyond belief from 20 years of [TS]

  me sitting on it but nothing on it is [TS]

  broken [TS]

  doesn't really rattle the pneumatic [TS]

  up-and-down thingy has a little bit of [TS]

  spring in it when it shouldn't like this [TS]

  sort of goes down compresses when you [TS]

  said ah no matter what but it's pretty [TS]

  heroic like kind of like my Mac Pro you [TS]

  know it's time but it's pretty but [TS]

  anyway it has never been a particularly [TS]

  comfortable or a good chair and I just [TS]

  feel like I needed a better one and I've [TS]

  been putting this off for years [TS]

  it's not like I'm buying new new fancy [TS]

  chairs and I went for years and years [TS]

  I've been like we need new chairs Oh our [TS]

  chairs are crap and I'm sitting on a 15 [TS]

  year old chair and now I'm sitting on an [TS]

  18 year old chair and now I'm sitting on [TS]

  a 20 year old chair and for whatever [TS]

  reason finally got the wherewithal say [TS]

  we just just need to get new chairs and [TS]

  I've been resisting mostly because fancy [TS]

  chairs cost huge amounts of money if [TS]

  you've never looked at fancy chairs and [TS]

  you think the $250 one was it was too [TS]

  much money don't look it's terrifying it [TS]

  costs too much money and I would be like [TS]

  I don't like my chair but no do I not [TS]

  like it that much [TS]

  the answer is usually no I was working [TS]

  during the dot-com boom right and that [TS]

  means I had occasion to encounter Aeron [TS]

  chairs which was one of the first fancy [TS]

  chairs and I sat on them and they're [TS]

  interesting but they never seemed like [TS]

  they could justify the price so I always [TS]

  had an excuse in my head of like yeah [TS]

  okay fancy chairs may be nice but [TS]

  they're not that nice and I had some [TS]

  foundation in it having actually like [TS]

  sit on some kinds of fancy chairs for an [TS]

  extended period of time but obviously I [TS]

  changed my mind on that and I'm sure [TS]

  Marco has Marco as always has a [TS]

  compelling case for what people should [TS]

  spend money to provide that I did it [TS]

  well okay so chairs are one of the many [TS]

  categories of products in you know in [TS]

  modern life where the the middle class [TS]

  is gone there is no poor middle class [TS]

  like it's one of those products where [TS]

  you can go to a store and [TS]

  you can buy one for you know 100 bucks [TS]

  150 bucks like that's that's like that [TS]

  like this typical like you know staples [TS]

  or office max like base model of decent [TS]

  desk chair with arms on it it's gonna be [TS]

  about a hundred fifty bucks you know [TS]

  something like that you could also get [TS]

  the one for 250 [TS]

  but these days maybe when you bought [TS]

  yours things were different John [TS]

  probably not but maybe um but these days [TS]

  like the $250 one you're not really [TS]

  getting higher quality than the cheaper [TS]

  one you're just getting a higher price [TS]

  with some features thrown on to make you [TS]

  pay that higher price but it's not [TS]

  really a higher quality it's it's the [TS]

  kind of thing we're like there's [TS]

  basically one quality level that they [TS]

  used to sign multiple price points to [TS]

  for marketing and profit it's a complete [TS]

  but you're you're getting like the same [TS]

  crap quality just with you know you know [TS]

  a nicer finish on the arms or something [TS]

  like that like minor cosmetic [TS]

  differences this is a true of so many [TS]

  things it's true of appliances in so [TS]

  many things where like everything's [TS]

  basically cheap crap and to get the next [TS]

  level of quality up you have to go from [TS]

  like a hundred and fifty dollars to a [TS]

  thousand dollars like there's nothing [TS]

  like everything in between [TS]

  you're being ripped off basically it's [TS]

  like there's like the the $400 ones is [TS]

  gonna be the same as the one or dollar [TS]

  one this $600 one is probably gonna be [TS]

  similar cloth like you're gonna you have [TS]

  to make a big jump to go much higher end [TS]

  to get a noticeable increase in quality [TS]

  if you want that because the [TS]

  middle-class have just kind of just been [TS]

  hollowed out by [TS]

  cheapness and decon tenting and [TS]

  outsourcing and just crap overtime that [TS]

  now all the low-end stuff is all made [TS]

  the same way and only the high-end stuff [TS]

  can afford to have any quality left in [TS]

  it and of course the high-end stuff as [TS]

  with all high-end stuff has tremendous [TS]

  margins so you know I don't know if you [TS]

  considered being getting ripped off but [TS]

  you like because the middle is gone your [TS]

  choice is narrow margins on crap or huge [TS]

  margins on expensive stuff expensive [TS]

  always has huge margins so I feel like [TS]

  the high-end stuff not only is it [TS]

  expensive you feel like you're getting [TS]

  ripped off it's like okay this is [TS]

  better and maybe I'll say it's two times [TS]

  better but it's not four times better [TS]

  and it's four times the price and that's [TS]

  just the price that's the price you pay [TS]

  in the high end for anything it is never [TS]

  proportional like you know your Mercedes [TS]

  s-class is three times as good as a [TS]

  Honda Accord but it cost way more than [TS]

  three times the price and that's just [TS]

  just the way of the world in the [TS]

  high-end and it is it's tough to stomach [TS]

  and it's the reason I've been sitting on [TS]

  the same chair for twenty years is good [TS]

  I'm just like I can't do it [TS]

  yeah and and by the way like the hundred [TS]

  dollar chair at Staples like there's a [TS]

  pretty good margin on that too late [TS]

  don't don't get you know that chairs [TS]

  made out of like sawdust and like thin [TS]

  plastic percentage-wise maybe but in [TS]

  absolute dollars its twenty dollars [TS]

  you're making off that chair yeah yeah [TS]

  is it well anyway the reason what so I I [TS]

  did those cheap chairs for years the [TS]

  reason why I finally upgraded so I [TS]

  finally upgraded to a good chair when I [TS]

  started working from home full-time [TS]

  because I decided you know if I'm gonna [TS]

  be here all the time [TS]

  I need something actually good because [TS]

  you know at work I would sit in decent [TS]

  office chairs like I think it's humbler [TS]

  the whole time I think I had an air on [TS]

  my before the job before that I had like [TS]

  you know not like the super fancy chair [TS]

  but like a mid-range you know office [TS]

  company chair like you when you're [TS]

  sitting on something for like one hour a [TS]

  day at home when you come home from work [TS]

  that has very different needs than when [TS]

  you're sitting in it all day every day [TS]

  like that's that's one of the reasons [TS]

  why offices tend to have pretty nice [TS]

  chairs anyway so I decided a chair lasts [TS]

  a pretty long time if you spent $100 on [TS]

  that chair or if you spent $1,000 in [TS]

  that chair over the course of 20 years [TS]

  like you're not really gonna notice that [TS]

  much like it like like over over the [TS]

  time fan of what you're using it that [TS]

  actually is not that ridiculous you know [TS]

  so anyway I decided to get nice chairs [TS]

  when we when I started the home office I [TS]

  have one TIFF has one and they are [TS]

  wonderful I will tell you what they are [TS]

  after you told me what you bought but I [TS]

  think you already know and yeah it's [TS]

  wonderful so what did you decide to do [TS]

  well so I did what everybody does these [TS]

  days and I went to the [TS]

  cutter also known as wire cutter no need [TS]

  for the though and looked at their chair [TS]

  reviews and the thing is because I've [TS]

  been looking at this for years I have [TS]

  some experience with what's out there in [TS]

  the high-end chair market and also by [TS]

  the way probably even more experienced [TS]

  with the crap chairs because every few [TS]

  years I'll go into an office store and [TS]

  sit on every single one of the chairs [TS]

  and just see if there's any that I can [TS]

  tolerate or that make me want to pay [TS]

  $150 or whatever and in my travels [TS]

  around the working world and friends [TS]

  houses who have expensive chairs I've [TS]

  set in not a lot of the expensive chairs [TS]

  but a couple of them and and you know I [TS]

  work in two jobs like some people have [TS]

  fancy chairs at work and there's always [TS]

  the ubiquitous leftover ions from the [TS]

  dot-com boom and so I'm familiar with a [TS]

  lot of these chairs and part of the [TS]

  reason why I bought a new one is just my [TS]

  old chairs are just getting older and [TS]

  creepier and really I really just want [TS]

  to buy my wife a new chair because hers [TS]

  is the worst and I always felt like we [TS]

  could once I'm getting her one I'm like [TS]

  well then we should just get us both one [TS]

  and then I can rotate my old chair to [TS]

  the PlayStation and get rid of that [TS]

  other chair and just you know I don't [TS]

  know it just it just seemed like the [TS]

  time to do it the wire cutter [TS]

  recommendation is this thing called the [TS]

  steel case gesture I'm just looking at [TS]

  that and I figured and the other [TS]

  alternative is the chair that Marco has [TS]

  and the chair that I think underscore [TS]

  also has don't you boss we both have the [TS]

  same chair I forget me probably pretty [TS]

  sure you do because I think I've sat in [TS]

  both your chairs when I visited both [TS]

  your houses they made a department of [TS]

  chairs to see what they're like and des [TS]

  gesture is cheaper and it was the number [TS]

  one pick and part of the norm of the [TS]

  reasoning of the number one pick is like [TS]

  the Marcos chair which is the Herman [TS]

  Miller embody is $300 more expensive but [TS]

  doesn't seem $300 better like the [TS]

  gesture was it was it was a better deal [TS]

  and one of the factors in buying my [TS]

  chair the chair as I'm getting is that I [TS]

  tend not to like armrests at all I don't [TS]

  want them on my chairs at all all the [TS]

  chairs I've ever had a that remove the [TS]

  arms from them a bit working at home or [TS]

  by Charis without arm rests I just [TS]

  finally get in the way up I've got long [TS]

  arms and I find to get in the way of my [TS]

  arms [TS]

  elbows and when I rotate my chair the [TS]

  arms hit my keyboard tray because I use [TS]

  a keyboard tray everywhere that's down [TS]

  low and I just don't like the arms and [TS]

  both the gesture and the embody looked [TS]

  like they had the possibility that if [TS]

  you remove the arms there would be no [TS]

  stubby things poking you like the [TS]

  gesture arms are way back like by the [TS]

  sides of the seat back and the embody [TS]

  arms are way down below and back by the [TS]

  side so I'm like oh those are both good [TS]

  when it came time for me to start [TS]

  ordering my plan was buy one embody and [TS]

  one gesture and my wife and I would try [TS]

  both of them and then we would decide if [TS]

  we you know if we each like one of each [TS]

  then we would just use the chairs and if [TS]

  we both like one didn't like the other [TS]

  we would return one and get another one [TS]

  so then it came down to the company's [TS]

  return policies and steel cases return [TS]

  policy was crap they had a 20% [TS]

  restocking fee and like no thanks you [TS]

  can buy them through Amazon and as far [TS]

  as I could tell you'd be subject to [TS]

  Amazon's return policy which is like 30 [TS]

  days return blah blah blah and [TS]

  reasonable new condition but I wasn't so [TS]

  sure about that and then the final [TS]

  alternative is to find a local store and [TS]

  you know go there and see what their [TS]

  return policy is but just you know about [TS]

  yeah you're busy you're working and I'm [TS]

  like oh if I have to find a store to do [TS]

  it maybe it's a long drive and I'll [TS]

  never end up doing it and the places [TS]

  that are close to me didn't carry the [TS]

  gesture that is carried to other steel [TS]

  case chairs and just I didn't I didn't [TS]

  want to go through that so anyway we're [TS]

  trying to experiment I decided I'm gonna [TS]

  buy the Herman Miller one by the way has [TS]

  the 30-day return policy buying direct [TS]

  from Herman Miller with no restocking [TS]

  fee and it has 12 year warranty on the [TS]

  chairs for whatever that's worth in case [TS]

  like it's damaged or whatever so I [TS]

  figured I'll try the Herman Miller [TS]

  embody mostly because I found youtube [TS]

  videos of removing the arms and I look [TS]

  very straight forward like it's not some [TS]

  complicated thing because I have sat in [TS]

  it at Marcos house and underscores house [TS]

  and because the wire cutter basically [TS]

  said it's you know we pick gestures I [TS]

  remember one but that has a lot to do [TS]

  with price the embodies a good chair too [TS]

  this is all despite the fact that I [TS]

  think all Herman Miller chairs including [TS]

  the air on the body are ridiculously [TS]

  over engineered and have things on them [TS]

  that do not make them better chairs [TS]

  there's a lot of that sort of high-end [TS]

  has to be fancy and weird to make you [TS]

  feel like you're dressed if I'd spent [TS]

  it's money that I really think does not [TS]

  actually make in a better chair but [TS]

  despite all that stuff [TS]

  it is also seems like a sturdy chair and [TS]

  sitting on it it feels solid like it [TS]

  feels if you're smaller than any of the [TS]

  chairs in my house and I'm just hoping [TS]

  it would be comfortable so I've been [TS]

  sitting I'm sitting on it now I just got [TS]

  it today I was sitting on it during this [TS]

  whole podcast and it takes some getting [TS]

  used to [TS]

  maybe I don't have it quite adjusted the [TS]

  way I want yet the arms I'm try the [TS]

  experiment with your arms on these arms [TS]

  are coming off because I cannot stand [TS]

  yeah they're easy to come off oh and [TS]

  then I'll have my wife try it for a [TS]

  little while as well and after 30 days [TS]

  we'll decide are we keeping this Arriba [TS]

  or are we buying a second one or are we [TS]

  gonna try something else so this is an [TS]

  experiment and in case you're wondering [TS]

  how much this chair cost you can go to [TS]

  her millet I come and find out and you [TS]

  can customize this kind of like a [TS]

  Porsche where you can get a different [TS]

  fabric on it for an additional 150 [TS]

  dollars they have for you or an [TS]

  additional 90 dollars to get a different [TS]

  finish on the bottom of the chair this [TS]

  gives you an idea of of what it's like [TS]

  but the cheapest you can come out with [TS]

  one of these things is about $1,300 for [TS]

  a chair which sounds very very [TS]

  ridiculous and honestly it is ridiculous [TS]

  but if you have recently shopped for say [TS]

  a non Casper mattress or a nice couch [TS]

  not from Ikea furniture is really [TS]

  expensive for a dining room table [TS]

  not even like a high-end dining room [TS]

  table but just like a middle-of-the-road [TS]

  dining room table with six chairs and [TS]

  the leaf furniture is expensive so [TS]

  anyway I would furniture is expensive [TS]

  but it's not good like we have an [TS]

  expensive dining room table but it's not [TS]

  good it's just furniture Jordan's [TS]

  furniture is not a high-end furniture [TS]

  store it's the local chain you probably [TS]

  don't know about if you don't live in [TS]

  Massachusetts but if not IKEA it's not [TS]

  cheap furniture but it's not fancy [TS]

  expensive furniture it is solidly [TS]

  middle-of-the-road mainstream for and [TS]

  same thing with mattresses like again [TS]

  not you Castro mattresses seem like [TS]

  they're expensive go real mattress [TS]

  shopping one day and find out how much [TS]

  like a real queen-size mattress cost [TS]

  it's not the cheapest one in the entire [TS]

  store they're ridiculously expensive [TS]

  right so then anyway I'm not gonna [TS]

  pretend this is not expensive share is a [TS]

  ridiculously expensive chair is the [TS]

  margins on it [TS]

  and like I said a lot of the design at [TS]

  months I figure er they're kind of like [TS]

  that uh what's the Apple dude with the [TS]

  expensive hourglass and crap like that [TS]

  Marc Newson yeah like a lot there's a [TS]

  lot of Marc Newson style flourishes on [TS]

  Herman Miller chairs and the Steelcase [TS]

  ones as well that I just feel like don't [TS]

  add that much anyway my initial [TS]

  impressions of this chair having just [TS]

  sat on it for a couple hours of [TS]

  podcasting and again I'm familiar with [TS]

  the chairs have sat on other people's [TS]

  that it feels like the other people's do [TS]

  the base feels very solid and very wide [TS]

  the chair itself is way heavier than my [TS]

  old chair that manifests in me not being [TS]

  able to roll it on carpet as easily it's [TS]

  got I've got the carpet casters on it so [TS]

  in theory they're the right I've got the [TS]

  right feet on it so it doesn't you know [TS]

  sink in or whatever but it is just so [TS]

  much heavier it's like twice as heavy as [TS]

  my other chair so rolling it is harder [TS]

  to do this chair despite the fact that [TS]

  it's all fancy is not Believe It or Not [TS]

  as adjustable is my other chair because [TS]

  the backrest can't go up and down like [TS]

  vertically like towards the ceiling in [TS]

  towards the floor because it's sort of [TS]

  one continuous piece and I'm a tall [TS]

  person with a long torso so I'm not [TS]

  entirely sure that I'm getting the [TS]

  support I need from the back of it but [TS]

  you know I'm willing to wait and see [TS]

  using it for a while how I feel sitting [TS]

  in the chair a long term bottom part of [TS]

  it feels okay so far the arms are gonna [TS]

  definitely going to come off anyway it's [TS]

  an experiment and even if I don't love [TS]

  it you know I'll see if my wife likes it [TS]

  and I'm either one of us do we will try [TS]

  to return it somehow I'll try to save [TS]

  the box and packing materials but it's a [TS]

  that's a lot of stuff and even if we do [TS]

  like it maybe we'll try another one of [TS]

  these for my wife and or me or maybe [TS]

  I'll try a gesture if I can find a way [TS]

  to buy without returning it and if [TS]

  you're thinking of using a tray like [TS]

  this the best way to do it is to find a [TS]

  local store that you can sit in within [TS]

  and then when you can talk to somebody [TS]

  about like what if I don't like he can I [TS]

  return it I just didn't have the time to [TS]

  do that and I just I felt like if I [TS]

  tried to if I tried to pursue that as I [TS]

  have in the past what would actually [TS]

  happen is I would never find time to go [TS]

  to the store or I would go to a store [TS]

  and they would have one or two chairs [TS]

  and I would try them and not [TS]

  I just wouldn't do anything I just [TS]

  needed to jump in the pool oh and you do [TS]

  get to pick all the different colors and [TS]

  finishes which is just stress inducing [TS]

  this by the way is why I always like I [TS]

  spent a lot of time thinking about what [TS]

  I would do if I ever had [TS]

  order like a Ferrari or Bentley because [TS]

  you get to pick like everything about [TS]

  the inside of them what color do you [TS]

  want what color carpet do you want [TS]

  materials do you want here what like [TS]

  they will do anything for you especially [TS]

  like you know Bentley enrolls cuz [TS]

  they're basically building their car [TS]

  just for you and I would be paralyzed [TS]

  about like I don't know I don't want to [TS]

  like spend 400 grand on a car and end up [TS]

  with this monstrosity because I have bad [TS]

  taste like we should really limit it to [TS]

  I know they do have some preset so like [TS]

  just pick these presets but it's a lot [TS]

  of pressure being able to customize all [TS]

  that stuff here's my rich people have [TS]

  other people take them out four of them [TS]

  or whatever but uh anyway I picked the [TS]

  options on this chair mostly to keep it [TS]

  inexpensive so mine is all black it's [TS]

  just black black black black black with [TS]

  the cheap fabric yeah I mean so whatever [TS]

  for whatever it's worth you know so we [TS]

  have two of these and are always one for [TS]

  me one for two if I bought them both in [TS]

  2010 so they're they're they're like [TS]

  seven and a half years old now we have [TS]

  sat in them you know I'm here I'm [TS]

  sitting here more than tifa's so you [TS]

  know mine is a little more worn than [TS]

  hers ours and ours are both like the [TS]

  typical you know black and black the [TS]

  whatever the the fabric is that used to [TS]

  be the only fabric because when I when I [TS]

  bought these there were very few options [TS]

  because the embody in 2010 was still [TS]

  fairly new so there there weren't there [TS]

  any options so anyway it has held up so [TS]

  remarkably well like not only is the [TS]

  support and everything still wonderful [TS]

  as far as I can tell flawless but even [TS]

  the fabric covering that you expect a [TS]

  chair that is totally covered in fabric [TS]

  like you know the the the air on the [TS]

  more you know the more famous one from [TS]

  dot-com era the air on has a whole lot [TS]

  of plastic framing around it so a lot of [TS]

  the like pressure or the friction of you [TS]

  moving around and sitting on the chair [TS]

  is on some of those plastic pieces I [TS]

  think one of the one of the biggest [TS]

  sources of wear on a chair is probably [TS]

  like the front rim of it and on the air [TS]

  on that's all plastic the what goes [TS]

  under your knees basically with the [TS]

  embody everything is wrapped in fabric [TS]

  base it like every edge that you touch [TS]

  is fabric covered including that front [TS]

  lip so you would expect these chairs [TS]

  for seven years of having my rear end on [TS]

  it constantly you know I don't I don't [TS]

  use this chair a little bit I'm really [TS]

  good sitting in my office so like you [TS]

  would think after all that time there [TS]

  would be a lot of wear and tear on this [TS]

  chair and I have two tiny little spots [TS]

  on the fabric on that front lip where [TS]

  like the edge there's like an edge [TS]

  support that kind of comes in from the [TS]

  sides and there's these two little worn [TS]

  away dots in the fabric and that's the [TS]

  only visible wear on the entire chair [TS]

  TIFF uses her a little bit less than me [TS]

  hers are still perfect hers doesn't have [TS]

  those dots and it's so it's just like [TS]

  nowhere and this is after seven and a [TS]

  half years of fairly heavy use you [TS]

  should get that repaired under warranty [TS]

  because you're still under warranty you [TS]

  say hey fabric wore through give me a [TS]

  new new fabric yeah actually I probably [TS]

  will you didn't do it for your iMac I [TS]

  forgot to remind you about that last [TS]

  show I remembered again real listening [TS]

  to shows this is the part where I meant [TS]

  to tell Marco that he needs to bring his [TS]

  iMac in before the the warranty expires [TS]

  you know what it is I still don't have [TS]

  like I'd have to use my laptop without a [TS]

  monitor or I'd have to go to the beach [TS]

  get the lg monitor that I hate and bring [TS]

  it here just do it the Barneys it's [TS]

  firing it's worth just trying you should [TS]

  know it's expiring in a few weeks but I [TS]

  really like I don't I really don't want [TS]

  to go without having a nice computer [TS]

  right now like this is like with all the [TS]

  the lead up to the iPhone 10 development [TS]

  it's very very this is a very bad time [TS]

  for me to be without a fast computer [TS]

  with the giant screen you just you're [TS]

  just waited too long yeah anyway for on [TS]

  the speaking of chairs but ellipse the [TS]

  air on as most people know who have any [TS]

  experience with them the Aaron has like [TS]

  mesh seats which is good if you get hot [TS]

  like in the seat because like you let [TS]

  the air flow up through it but it is [TS]

  basically mesh stretched over a plastic [TS]

  frame and especially the front lip with [TS]

  like the front plastic rim that is [TS]

  holding the mesh in like sort of like I [TS]

  think of it like a tennis racket that [TS]

  rim if you don't sit in it just the [TS]

  right way so that your butt is sitting [TS]

  on the mesh that RIM digs into the [TS]

  bottom of like your your thighs behind [TS]

  your knees and it's very uncomfortable I [TS]

  can cut off circulation if you're [TS]

  sitting in it the right way it's not a [TS]

  problem but people sit in all sorts of [TS]

  different ways like slouching and [TS]

  sliding to the side especially if you're [TS]

  in the chair a long time even though [TS]

  you're not supposed to or whatever [TS]

  that's the main complaint about that and [TS]

  uh you know errands you know if you [TS]

  don't like the mess you're not gonna [TS]

  like it but anyway I had enough errands [TS]

  to know that I don't like that I said in [TS]

  weird positions that digs in [TS]

  so the embody doesn't have that problem [TS]

  but that's one of the big things that [TS]

  the various reviews I've read including [TS]

  the wire cutter said about the gestures [TS]

  and it's even better in that the entire [TS]

  bottom cushion is very large and all the [TS]

  edges are not just fabric covered but [TS]

  also kind of squishy so you can sit in [TS]

  all sorts of weird positions with your [TS]

  limbs draped off at all different angles [TS]

  and no add no place where you have your [TS]

  circulation cut off so I am still [TS]

  interested to try a gesture I just need [TS]

  to find somewhere where I can try one so [TS]

  that I can return it if I want to [TS]

  because gesture is $1,000 chair instead [TS]

  of a $1300 one but still pretty [TS]

  expensive yeah also if anybody's looking [TS]

  to get these things for you know less [TS]

  money for a better deal there's a couple [TS]

  things you should know first of all I [TS]

  heard I should probably verify this but [TS]

  I haven't verified this but I heard when [TS]

  I was shopping for mine that if you [TS]

  don't buy new from an authorized [TS]

  reseller Herman Miller's warranty does [TS]

  not apply to you so I so if you're [TS]

  buying like from like a used sale or a [TS]

  discount site be careful with that I [TS]

  would say do you do some research to [TS]

  figure out if that's true or not [TS]

  secondly if you're buying an Aeron used [TS]

  or anywhere for that matter what John [TS]

  just described about the front lip [TS]

  digging into your knees if you don't so [TS]

  don't just write it is a desperated by [TS]

  the fact that it comes in three [TS]

  different sizes so make sure if you're [TS]

  buying an Aeron look up what the sizes [TS]

  are and make sure you're buying the [TS]

  right size for you if you buy one that [TS]

  is too large that will dig into your [TS]

  knees way more than it should [TS]

  most people found the Aeron whoo-hoo [TS]

  fine they aren't uncomfortable we're [TS]

  sitting in one that was the wrong size [TS]

  for them fortunately if you go for the [TS]

  embody which I think you should there's [TS]

  a reason why it was the kind of sequel [TS]

  to the Aeron it's better but if you go [TS]

  with the embody you don't have that [TS]

  problem that's why the embody only comes [TS]

  in one size because it's just a better [TS]

  design [TS]

  it's the embody the Aeron takes a lot of [TS]

  adjustments to be good and to fit you [TS]

  well the embody doesn't really have much [TS]

  of anything that can be adjusted and [TS]

  comes in exactly one size and it's great [TS]

  and if it's almost everybody really well [TS]

  and that size is fat-ass basically we've [TS]

  like this seat if you want your butt to [TS]

  feel small citizen embodied because they [TS]

  bottom that's just it's just tremendous [TS]

  like you need I do not have bottom to [TS]

  fill this seat I feel inadequate to the [TS]

  task of filling the seat of my butt [TS]

  because it is wide I have like six [TS]

  inches on either side of me here it's [TS]

  it's a it's a big seat you got some work [TS]

  to do Joe yeah I'm working on it I'll [TS]

  just keep getting down and I almost ate [TS]

  an entire pint of haagen-dazs last night [TS]

  so I'm working on it you're on your way [TS]

  man the Aeron chair looks pretty dated [TS]

  to me now [TS]

  that it was so iconic for the time that [TS]

  now it looks like it looks like 2004 [TS]

  yeah I mean I got like the Aaron had [TS]

  some innovations I feel like that the [TS]

  mesh is an innovation yeah because of [TS]

  the the breathability and stuff but some [TS]

  aspects of it are just not like the [TS]

  lumbar support that's not great like [TS]

  that little old you get this thing for [TS]

  more money that shoves a plastic lump in [TS]

  your back like that's not well [TS]

  considered I that thing never and like a [TS]

  lot of people will put these weird [TS]

  headrests on them too yeah you had rest [TS]

  for the embodies who get harassed for [TS]

  everything like now then you're in a [TS]

  dentist chair that feels weird yeah that [TS]

  never work that for me like in all in [TS]

  especially like in the tumblr office [TS]

  there were always like a million [TS]

  different errands around like different [TS]

  eras and sizes that were bought it [TS]

  because it was a share office for most [TS]

  for all the time I was there so like it [TS]

  was there were like 25 different errands [TS]

  in the office that were all bought at [TS]

  different times and so they were in [TS]

  various stages of like adjustment from [TS]

  previous people who had worked there and [TS]

  everything else and so it was always [TS]

  like as this bizarre combination of [TS]

  weird chairs and yeah none of them I [TS]

  couldn't like I I finally found like the [TS]

  one that fit me right in the office and [TS]

  like it was like a red state perfect [TS]

  situation like occasionally like when [TS]

  somebody would be in the office and like [TS]

  take my chair some other desk and would [TS]

  like put some other chair back at my [TS]

  desk when they were done I would notice [TS]

  him you know make my chair like this is [TS]

  a problem when I was when I was out for [TS]

  work during the summer like we moved all [TS]

  everyone in the whole building and I I [TS]

  as I always do put labels on my chair [TS]

  like this is my chair or whatever and I [TS]

  came back to like set up my new stuff at [TS]

  my new desk and to put on my new [TS]

  keyboard tray like two days into my you [TS]

  know long break my chair was there and [TS]

  then I came back at the end of the the [TS]

  summer to come back for good chair was [TS]

  gone like no like no my co-workers I [TS]

  said like I said them and they're like [TS]

  watch my chair and like haha yeah John [TS]

  in his chair like no seriously you [TS]

  should have watched my chair I have [TS]

  searched the entire floor and to go into [TS]

  every conference room and eventually I [TS]

  found that it was like it was totally [TS]

  like missed you guys both Wade missed I [TS]

  I played for like ten minutes so I [TS]

  didn't actually bear anything everyone [TS]

  in the chat room who hasn't played miss [TS]

  close your ears isn't miss spoiler [TS]

  it was just like missed in it 2017 I [TS]

  totally can I thought I had checked [TS]

  every single conference room for my [TS]

  chair and it's easy to recognize guess [TS]

  what it's the one with no arms on it [TS]

  right it's a particular variety of chair [TS]

  it's an older been at the company for a [TS]

  long time but it's the only one in the [TS]

  office with no arms on it so it should [TS]

  be easy to find and I had checked [TS]

  everywhere and I was like asking people [TS]

  around have you seen my chair like where [TS]

  could it have gone it was you had to go [TS]

  into one of the marks you're constant [TS]

  for conference rooms and then turn [TS]

  around and look at the door you came [TS]

  through and against the wall next the [TS]

  door hidden behind the thing right [TS]

  because you just go into a room and you [TS]

  don't think turn around and look the [TS]

  doorway you just came through that's [TS]

  where it was there's like behind the [TS]

  open door to the conference room you [TS]

  come in you open the door and the door [TS]

  blocks your view of the chair and I [TS]

  found it and this is after I feel bad [TS]

  this is after I took one of the chairs [TS]

  of a similar model and remove the arms [TS]

  he said I'm gonna I'm gonna make a new [TS]

  fact simply on my old chair but it [TS]

  wasn't the same like it was it was a [TS]

  similar model but not exactly the same [TS]

  model and I couldn't remember like my [TS]

  butt's been in that chair at work for [TS]

  eight years okay here's a but time and [TS]

  that cherry there was a so I thank God I [TS]

  found it and and I remember when I found [TS]

  it that I had to put like puffy stickers [TS]

  of animals on it even further reinforce [TS]

  that it's mine like on the back of it so [TS]

  it is totally my red stapler at work if [TS]

  I could chain it to my desk I would [TS]