Hello Internet

H.I. #89 -- A Swarm of Bad Emoji


  saying as you and I are both wearing

  hello internet merchandise at the moment

  you wearing a reunion swamp in t-shirt

  and me that mighty nailing gear who it

  does remind me of a question I've been

  meaning to ask you for a while yeah I

  don't want to put you on the spot here

  but I am I had made for you and had sent

  to you Oh a pair of hello Internet

  limited edition sneakers Oh

  oh yes I didn't really expect you to

  wear them cuz you know you're you but

  I'm curious as to what's happened to

  them well I mean Brady I I think you

  know I'm a real sneaker head I'm a big

  fan of collecting sneakers yeah one of

  the things when you're in the sneaker

  head world or the sneaker verse as we

  call it right is you you want to keep

  your really special sneakers in mint


  yeah absolute pristine mint condition

  suniverse is a good name as well who

  universe I'll pass that on to the other

  sneaker heads and see okay see how that

  gets accepted on the ICQ where we chat

  don't get me wrong I mean I have a pair

  I wear and a second pair in mint

  condition so I have my mint condition

  pair I'm just wondering where your mint

  condition pair is oh you want to know

  where it is yeah I don't think you're

  wearing them okay it's pride of place in

  the house Brady they're in a box which

  is behind my laundry hamper so that it

  is as safe and as protected an item can

  be in the house

  if robbers were ever to show up they

  won't find the hello internet sneakers

  I'm impressed they're in the house I'm

  happy with that I'll take that do you

  feel like that's a victory yeah

  did you honestly think Brady that I

  might tell you that I had thrown away

  the hello internet sneakers that you

  have lovingly handmade well I didn't

  think you'd tell me you had but I still

  think there is a chance you have I think

  it's more likely you've read them like

  you sent them to a relative or someone

  who listens to the show mm-hmm with my

  same shoe size is that who I would send

  it to well yeah I imagine you must have

  some relative with the same same shoe

  size as you probably yeah family trees

  are quite extensive but now you haven't

  reqif didn't know they're in my house


  Henry gifted they are in mint condition

  and shall remain so for ever I think

  maybe I have been ever mint condition

  conundrum at the moment hmm because for

  my birthday which was back in June

  mm-hmm I really wanted the Saturn 5 Lego

  rocket that was released around that

  time with 1969 pieces it was one of the

  most impressive Lego things I'd ever

  seen so I said to my wife because she

  never knows what to get me for my

  birthday I said that's what I want

  mm-hmm so she got it for me I was over

  the moon I was very pleased with it but

  I haven't made it partly because I

  haven't had time but also like I like

  that it's in its box and in mint

  condition and like I kind of like the

  box and like knowing that all the pieces

  of it and they're all beautifully

  arranged and and I kind of don't want to

  make it I'm seriously wondering if it's

  still on sale whether I should buy a

  second one so I can make one and keep

  one in mint condition in a box as like a

  display think I have some follow-up

  questions here Brady hmm I feel like I

  have ended up with a mint condition item

  in my house through a series of

  extraordinary circumstances but yeah

  I've started a podcast with a friend

  that podcast ended up creating

  merchandise straight from the brain of

  my friend who shipped some right to my

  house it's not ordinary circumstances

  that such a thing would exist

  yeah you however are looking to

  intentionally have a mint condition Lego

  box and I'm imagining this is quite a

  big Lego box like what's the size of

  this thing I would say it's about the

  size of two cake boxes two or three cake

  boxes how the cake box as compared to

  bread baskets I don't know this measure

  you know the hello internet sneaker box

  yes it's about the size of three of them

  okay I have a sense of that but for the

  listeners those who did not acquire

  hello internet sneakers how many

  Audrey's is the box

  how many Audrey's could you fit inside

  the box that's the standard measure we

  use here

  you could probably fit three to four

  Audrey's in the box all right the audrey

  has been packing on the pounds lately

  that's good

  my mental estimate here is you could fit

  ten arteries in but you must be really

  it depends on how tightly you pack them

  and and how much she's been putting on

  the weight oh so I'm aware that these

  Lego things if they're unboxed have a

  greater resale value like years later

  but I never sell these things anyway so

  I don't really think that's my reason I

  don't think it's a financial

  consideration I think it's just for

  liking the neatness and the beauty of an

  unboxed awesome thing right you're not

  investing in Legos here no no and I just

  feel like the boxed rocket and made just

  feels like a nicer thing to me than if I

  made it like if I made it I'm just gonna

  have this big rocker that obviously is

  made of Lego mm-hmm and like I don't

  know where I'd put that or how I'd feel

  about that whereas I really like the box

  I just like how the Box looks and I like

  knowing what's in it and I can't explain

  it I know it's a bit weird I'm trying

  very hard to understand and maybe I have

  used this analogy before when I when I

  try to think of these kinds of things

  but the closest I can come is the

  promise of unused stationery like an

  unwritten in notebook that is true it is

  the promise of what you could write in

  there as opposed to what you actually do

  which which just doesn't live up to the

  ideal that analogy is good beyond what

  you know because when I was a school

  mm-hmm in year 3 mm-hmm so I must have

  been what like around 8 years old or


  mm-hmm yes but right my year 3 teacher

  who I still remember was mrs. delbridge

  and she had this diary which was a

  five-year diary you could keep five

  years in it because of the way the pages

  were configured like oh five years

  schedule do you mean like a calendar for

  five years yeah it was basically yeah

  okay especially what I was I had a

  little lock on and I was completely

  besotted by it mm-hmm and it was the

  prize for the student who did the best

  work in their journal that year we had

  like a daily journal we had to write

  stuff in it

  I was just obsessed with winning it and

  it was going to be given at the end of

  the year and while most of the kids

  didn't care about the journal and would

  write stuff about like what they did

  last night or what they watched on TV or

  you know what they did in the holidays I

  decided to turn my journal into like a

  spy novel which I just wrote each day

  and it was this fictional story about

  this spy having all these adventures he

  was called I am I don't know why I

  called him okay it was this epic tale

  spanning to exercise books and there was

  one other girl in the class who kept a

  really good journal and she had much

  better handwriting than me of course she

  also really wanted to win it and I was

  convinced that she was gonna win it and

  I still remember at the end of the year

  mrs. Dilber sang and the winner of the

  Diary is and she opened up the page and

  my name had been written in the front

  where it said this belongs to

  then I'd won the five-year diary which

  I'd wanted all year so I took it home

  and I thought this is amazing this is I

  finally got it it's mine I've coveted

  this for so long and I never ever wrote

  in it or did anything with it because I

  was too scared to ruin the beautiful

  empty diary I didn't want to sully it so

  for the next three or four years I just

  kept this five-year diary thinking next

  year maybe I'll start it when I when my

  handwriting's better and I know I won't

  ruin it as I said your handwriting will

  never be good enough to live up to the

  idea of the diary yeah especially the

  longer you have it as it has gone on for

  two years it becomes like oh well now I

  really need to have something great to

  write in this thing yeah it's like if

  you're keeping a bottle of champagne for

  a special occasion the longer you go

  without drinking the special allure the

  occasion needs to be in order to drink

  that champagne like well we haven't

  drank this for two years now it has to

  be an amazing event you sort of say

  critize an object by not using it that's

  it that's what's happening to the rocket

  mm-hmm say critizing anta yeah I think

  that is what what's happening my

  strategy for this at least with paper

  stationery because I used to use paper

  notebooks all the time

  I can used always have a paper notebook

  with me I used to write in paper

  notebooks for all kinds of projects and

  the stationery used to be a much bigger

  part of my life than it currently is but

  I was always aware of feeling that

  feeling about oh my dumb ideas are not

  worthy of this pristine book and so my

  strategy was to just every time I got a

  notebook intentionally just scribble all

  over the first page like okay now it's

  fine because there's no this first page

  needs to be the opening lines of war in


  I am Dees a critizing but maybe it's

  like degrading the notebook down to my

  normal human level I was like okay well

  now I can write sullying it when I got

  my new iPhone the other day the first

  day I had I happened to go to the gym

  and when I go to the gym I give my phone

  and my car keys and my wallet to my

  trainer and he goes into like a back

  locked room and puts them in his gym bag

  mm-hmm so I said I've got a new phone

  and I hand it over to him and I said can

  you just be careful when you put it in

  that the keys like scratch up against

  the phone Lou and I never say things

  like that

  he looked at me funny and I said I just

  got the phone today and you know I don't

  want to scratch it and he was like I had

  no problems I understand I'll be really

  careful when I put it in my bag mm-hmm I

  went back to the gym two days later and

  handed over my stuff to him and he said

  I'll be careful and I said don't care

  any more seriously as the half-life of

  it was to the iPhone is sacred for a day

  and after that I don't care but the

  first day you have it you know you're

  polishing it on your t-shirt all the

  time to make sure there's no

  fingerprints on it and making sure it's

  so beautiful and then two days later it

  was like yeah

  chuck it in it's just my phone now so

  after there's big conversation about how


  your unopened box of Lego is what do you

  think you're going to do here braiding

  it's still open I don't know what you

  might have to do is buy the second box


  build the Lego Saturn rocket and then

  display the Lego Saturn rocket on top of

  the box

  with the other one what will I do with

  the empty box will you'll throw that one

  away have you seen how gorgeous the box

  is this is the point in these

  conversations Brady where I feel like

  I've tried to work with you but now it's

  too far you're gonna keep two identical

  boxes of a lego Construction Set in your

  head that's what you're gonna do that's

  the ultimate idea when you were going to

  buy the second one is that you're going

  to keep the two boxes because they're

  beautiful okay but you know that's crazy

  right it would be a difficult box to

  throw away that's all I'm saying I don't

  know man I feel like we're getting close

  to an episode of Hoarders when you're

  telling me that you're gonna keep both

  of the boxes of the Saturn 5 rocket when

  you both

  yeah tell me I have a second one don't

  tie me up that your plan is when you get

  the second vote you're going to keep it

  I don't know man

  I could go along with the constructed

  rocket in front of or on top of the box

  of the unopened one but that's a keep

  the two boxes like I don't know I don't

  know what to say to you yeah I don't

  know him what why it's gonna go because

  while they are nice it is a nice box it

  is a little bit childish so it's not

  really in keeping with the look of my

  office you know with the nice green

  walls and lovely framed pictures so but

  it's your office your office is what you

  want to make it you can have Lego

  Rockets in your office if you want to

  yeah but I want it to have a certain

  grown-up look as well right of course

  go on and look do you know quite often

  when I go through feedback like in the

  emails and on the reddit and stuff like

  that I do enjoy it and I am grateful for

  it but it always feels quite like

  sometimes it feels a bit antagonistic

  there is a certain heat to it that

  sometimes can rile you up or you don't

  enjoy especially when people are

  disagreeing on things or disagreeing

  with us it's like manner because you

  know they feel frustrated because they

  can't get their say to us we're gonna

  feel a bit frustrated because we can't

  answer all their comments I've been

  going through a lot of the feedback on

  which is better the moon landing or the

  Mars landing

  oh the which is more impressive and

  there's been lots of discussion about it

  yeah their hands their hands and both

  views are be important you know what

  I've completely enjoyed it mm-hmm I've

  enjoyed the tone of it

  I've enjoyed both sides of the argument

  I still think I'm right of course and

  the moon landing is more impressive than

  the Mars landing but I've enjoyed what

  the Mars landing people have had to say

  I've enjoyed engaging with a little bit

  of it it's been one of the more

  enjoyable bits of civilized feedback and

  discussions we've had as a result of the

  show that's nice to hear baby hmm there

  is also always the problem when you're

  going through feedback if you've made

  anything online and then people are

  leaving comments and I feel like this is

  also one of the fundamental problems of

  the Internet is that there is no

  indication of tone of how the person is

  saying the other thing I think it's very

  easy when you're reading feedback that

  is critical of you that the the narrator

  in your head

  for the comment that you're reading has

  angry tone which might not at all be

  what the person is intending which of

  course is why we have a proliferation of

  emoticons and smiley faces everywhere

  but at least on on Reddit and YouTube

  like the emoji encroachment has not

  reached their to a full extent so I

  think it can be hard to understand how

  did the person mean the comment but I'm

  very happy that you've been enjoying the

  Moon vs Mars feedback I also enjoy all

  those comment threads I still think that

  Mars is more impressive to me but I felt

  myself a bit swayed by the idea that for

  humans on the long scale the moon is

  objectively more impressive I felt

  myself pulled in that direction by the

  feedback yeah I think maybe the reason

  I've found it so easy reading the

  feedback is my assuredness that I'm

  right hahaha

  maybe it's that you're so confident in

  your opinion that it's just like oh yeah

  there's no there's no arguing with a

  Brady on this oh so there was another

  big space event since we last recorded

  and this was the Cassini space probe

  which had been doing the business around

  Saturn for years now and send you back

  all these great photos mm-hmm that

  mission finally came to its end and it

  was sent plunging into the atmosphere of

  Saturn for a big dramatic finale because

  they didn't want to leave it just you

  know cruising around the orbit of Saturn

  as space junk yeah basically and I have

  in the past been critical of height and

  space sheer pressure and things like

  that movie and admittedly when this was

  happening I did go on Twitter and I was

  a little bit naughty and made a few

  provocative tweets just for fun but I

  will say overall I thought the level of

  Cassini hype in my timeline at least in

  the social media I was saying was

  pitched just perfect it was right this

  time I was very pleased

  I thought the mainstream media may be

  slightly under played it but of course a

  space note is always going to think that

  but the space cheerleaders around the

  place I thought it was about right you

  know they were passionate and emotional

  and I teased them about it a little bit

  on the Twitter particularly when I said

  that taking nice pictures of Saturn is

  low-hanging fruit

  but overall I thought it was about right

  and I wish they're all science events

  were treated about that tone

  there was a proportional response you

  think taking pictures of Saturdays

  low-hanging fruit yeah it's a bit oh

  we're isn't amazing we got these

  beautiful pictures of a satin I mean

  anyone with the 2005 Nokia pointing

  vaguely in the direction of sad could

  take an amazing photo set but don't get

  me wrong I did like the scene II

  preferred the Voyager missions myself

  well you will have a Voyager man I said

  that on Twitter as well

  I said I'm more of avoid you man I was

  impressed by Cassini and it was a really

  cool mission its Voyager 2 still going

  I'm just realizing I don't know is is

  that yeah I think they're still getting

  signals from both of them there's a new

  story every few weeks that they've

  finally left the solar system as the

  definition of the solar system keeps

  changing for PR reasons really you're so

  cynical there hasn't been a void you

  left the solar system story for a few

  weeks and actually so I'm sure we can

  redefine the edge of the sun's magneto

  sphere once again has the true edge of

  the solar system so we can get that

  story and just quickly can I praised

  SpaceX for a minute and you're trying to

  win over our commenters Brady I think

  they did something I like credit where

  credit's due

  they posted a YouTube video montage of

  their greatest failures and crashes it

  was this brilliant montage of rockets

  exploding and everything that went wrong

  and I really enjoyed it I thought it was

  really cool and I liked that they were

  able to take the mickey out of himself

  in that way it hacked back to a famous

  scene in the film the right stuff where

  they show a whole bunch of rocket

  failures so maybe - and the stage would

  kick in again but it was a really cool

  video this was on the official channel

  they published a compilation of their

  failures yes

  is this it how not to land an orbital

  rocket booster it probably is yeah you

  know what I've got to give a company

  credit for doing that kind of thing yeah

  I mean to be fair if you've got that

  incredible sexy footage why not use it

  because there's not many things more

  amazing to look at then a rocket going

  wrong but still some companies would not

  couch it in this way so good on them I'm

  watching the video now it's pretty good

  and it certainly helps if these are all


  rockets yeah it did occur to me that the

  first time something goes wrong with a

  rocket with a person on it that this

  video is gonna maybe come back to bite

  them on the backside which is why the

  companies would do it that's exactly it

  you're putting something out there in

  the world for people to hold against you

  but I'll give a company credit for doing

  that kind of thing this is definitely

  some impressive explosions yeah they're

  nice nice footage I'll put it in the

  show notes for people to watch so

  speaking of your approval of the Cassini

  news coverage there's something I want

  to touch on from two shows ago there was

  a topic that came up briefly and it was

  when you were discussing the overhyped

  eclipse in America yeah the eclipse of

  the millennium I believe was what it was

  being called I know when you're poking

  me on purpose I'm not even gonna bother

  correct was that because they're not

  right I might be mistaken I don't know

  by the way I do realize when you'd like

  to deliberately say things wrong like a

  dad you know who does it just to whine

  the kids up okay you keep not

  understanding what akka means I do know

  you do that on purpose by the way

  oh I understand what akka mean it's

  great I think I understand I got better

  than you I think you're too close to it

  and you can't understand what akka

  really is all right but yes I was

  critical of the eclipse of the century

  hype coming from our friends across the

  Atlantic yeah so you made some comments

  about the American centric nests of

  American news and speaking of feedback

  in the comments there were about a

  bazillion comments in the reddit where

  people were jumping on this bandwagon

  about how American centric the news is

  and I am NOT one to defend the news

  people might be aware of that but this

  is one case we didn't touch upon it at

  the time but I have to say reading the

  comments where people were complaining

  about how American centric the news in

  America is I'm fine with that

  of all of the myriad of things I could

  complain about American news the fact

  that it focuses on America is like the

  most minor of complaints that could

  possibly be I think it's actually

  totally justified for example there was

  a comment that I'm I'm sort of picking

  at random but I think works well as an

  example where there was someone from

  Brazil who was complaining about having

  moved to America that nobody in America

  knows anything about

  right that it never comes up on the

  American news they were you know sort of

  making fun of Americans for saying

  Americans would ask him if he speaks

  Brazilian as a question about like

  what's what's Brazil like or not knowing

  where in the world Brazil is that's like

  I kind of get that it's funny to make

  fun of Americans for not knowing these

  things but what I was thinking about was

  I was trying to think okay what is to

  Brazil as Brazil is to America

  how do we measure the different sizes of

  countries and this may not be a perfect

  comparison but I thought I think you

  could use the GDP of a country as a

  rough first order approximation for how

  important is it in the world I'm not

  saying that's a perfect measure but I

  think we can ballpark that yeah and it

  works out just about perfectly that the

  Brazilian GDP is one-tenth the size of

  the American GDP and of course the

  United States GDP is the largest in the

  world by a pretty decent margin so the

  country that is to Brazil as Brazil is

  to the United States is a country like

  the Czech Republic or Romania and I just

  kind of would love to know how often the

  goings-on of Romania or the Czech

  Republic are in Brazilian news and if

  someone from Romania could be like oh

  the Brazilian news doesn't cover Romania

  as often as they think it should but it

  would feel like well of course it

  doesn't how does the Czech Republic or

  Romania impact Brazil like not really a

  lot and so I really feel like American

  news is American centric Ness it's

  totally fine and it's a thing that I am

  very happy to defend as far as American

  news goes well maybe I didn't put my

  case properly mm-hmm I think it is ok

  for news to be parochial mm-hmm I worked

  on the newspaper in Adelaide and

  everything was about what's the Adelaide

  angle if a huge disaster happens on the

  other side of the world the first thing

  we wonder is I wonder if anyone from

  Adelaide was there Pirozhki onus is fair

  enough I think the American news does go

  too far like I think they're too

  cool I think they could just turn that

  dial down just a little bit but I'm

  alright with Pirozhki or news coverage

  because you got a play to your audience

  mm-hmm but my problem is they're kind of

  it's almost kind of like a well I hope

  it's a willful ignorance for example if

  a new building got built in America that

  was taller than every other building in

  America but it was shorter than the Burj

  Khalifa which is the tallest building in

  the world and say it was built in

  Chicago and then the American news in

  the Chicago News ran a story about this

  new building and called it the biggest

  building ever I'd be like no it's not

  the biggest building ever it's the

  biggest building in America mm-hmm

  that's like how the finals of the

  baseball in America is called the World

  Series that's the classic example isn't

  it this is not the World Series to

  decide the world champions they crowned

  the world champions of baseball every

  year based on who won a domestic us

  competition well it does include Canada

  greatly this is more where my problem is

  it's kind of this this ignorant of the

  bigger picture mm-hmm and I think that's

  the problem I think you need to know how

  you fit into the world

  I don't mind skewing the coverage and

  you know not covering every minor

  incident that happens in Romania mm-hmm

  but I think it's degrees and I think

  America goes a little bit too far there

  are some TV channels in the UK when

  they're covering the news and they try

  to be all high and mighty and be really

  international and I get really bored I

  think yeah enough of all this boring

  stuff about the stuff that's happening

  in other countries this is so worthy

  tell me why there was a big traffic jam

  on my motorway today you know I want my

  local news so you can't go too far the

  other way and be to unsend Trek but I

  think America goes the other way it's to

  America centric I want my porridge is

  just right is that too much to ask

  I mean look as a man who wants to bend

  the entire world to his will I

  understand you want your porridge just

  right I can sympathize there I think of

  a lot of this stuff in life like it I

  don't know how to articulate this very

  well but it's a bit like everything in

  life is a series of dials and it's like

  yes of course we would want the dial to

  be tuned just

  right but you can never know when it's

  tuned just right so you have to think

  about it in terms of like well what

  happens if this dial is tuned too much

  and what happens if it's tuned too

  little and think about like what are the

  consequences in in these directions

  because you just don't know where the

  exact correct setting is and I look at

  the American centric nests of American

  news and and feel mostly like well of

  course this dial is going to be turned

  way to one side and it's because the

  United States is it's like such an

  incredibly large and important

  economically in political country in the

  world and very few other countries can

  impact the United States in any

  meaningful way

  and essentially the only foreign news

  that Americans get is about the

  countries that may be able to impact the

  United States and in some way and that

  is a tiny handful of countries and to

  expect that it's much broader beyond

  that I think is kind of unreasonable

  like the stuff like the world series is

  just funny and that's why the eclipse of

  the century was a perfect example

  because as you said last time I was like

  how is this being measured like there's

  no there's no objective way it's the

  eclipse of the century except that it's

  happening right now in America like that

  stuff is funny my personal peeve is a

  kind of beating on Americans for not

  knowing about the world outside and I

  think it's because it's such an

  asymmetric relationship like people in

  other countries know all sorts of stuff

  about America because what America does

  affects those countries but Americans

  don't know about the countries that

  their policies affect because one

  there's vastly more of them and and two

  like well frankly those countries their

  actions don't really affect the United

  States nearly as much so like II just I

  just think it's not surprising that this

  is the situation that we're in that's a

  bit of a shame mm-hmm I can spare for

  shame that's something so powerful and

  that can affect so many other people is

  so unaware of those people but I hear

  argument I guess it bothers me mostly

  because I remember coming to the UK a

  long time ago and getting into

  conversations with people about how like

  oh it's amazing how you don't know

  anything about all of our countries and

  I was originally on the side of like oh

  I should I should feel totally ashamed


  but then eventually I kind of changed my

  mind I'm like wait a minute what like

  why would I know the details of like how

  the politics in France works like why

  would this ever be a thing that would

  come across my attention before having

  having moved to Europe like it never

  would in any meaningful way so I

  shouldn't feel bad about not having

  known it when I showed up so I think

  that's why it's like a little personal

  thing for me I'm okay with you defending

  your countrymen but I do think one

  should strive for more information and

  more knowledge in life in all ways and

  that includes knowledge of the world and

  you know we should know how the

  electoral system in France works I don't

  but I shouldn't be proud that I don't I

  should say I wish I did I wish I knew

  everything but I do feel like a

  statement like oh we should all strive

  to know more about the world like it's

  very easy to say but it's very hard to

  agree with the specifics of what exactly

  does that mean because there's an

  infinite amount of things to know about

  absolutely everything and so if we

  accept that as a premise we immediately

  have to start filtering out almost

  everything about everything it's not

  possible to know about all of the things

  so there there has to be some sort of

  filter again that's why I'm not

  surprised that Americans they know about

  America and maybe not very much beyond

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  so grace since we last spoke I know

  there's been another announcement from

  the temple the temple Apple has

  announced new iPhones for all the fans

  and I'll tell you what if you went to a

  dictionary and looked up unimpressed you

  could put a photo of me watching the

  iPhone announcement there yeah as far as

  I can tell and you set me straight if

  I'm wrong but this new iPhone don't can

  I call it iPhone X I know I'm supposed

  to call it 10 okay no let's let's get

  this on the record here I am boycotting

  the 10 they're not going along with

  their it's iPhone 10 it's like I'm sorry

  if you're gonna put the big letter X

  there I'm calling it X it's it's not

  gonna happen I Apple but I feel like

  like pulling out the X in any branding

  time it's like your big gun isn't it and

  that's like okay it's time it's time for

  the X version of whatever we've got

  mm-hmm so I expect it to be pretty

  awesome like game-changer and as far as

  I can tell this is not a game changer

  this is just more faffing around the

  edges and I think they've wasted their X

  I think they've gone early on the X

  whether it's out of desperation or they

  were just running out of time because

  they were approaching them pretend and

  they thought that was when they could

  you they had to use their X you know

  well I would argue that they had if they

  didn't want to use the 10 they could

  have had several more years

  of not using the ten right because yeah

  because they they have their little s

  their little in between years so we had

  seven they could have done seven s 8 8 s

  9 9 s and then count to 10 so they could

  have had what was at six years I heard

  there was some technical reason they

  couldn't use 9 I find that hard to

  believe but okay

  what do I know about this stuff but

  anyway I am disappointed from what I've

  seen so far

  I'm not yearning to get one from a

  thousand pounds

  am I wrong should I want one what would

  you want the X to have what would make

  you feel like wow that's the kind of X

  you want to see in the world emojis that

  move when I fuck move my face no well

  good news for you feels like it should

  be like a new birth it should be the

  monolith descending from the sky if I

  knew the answer to that I would either

  work at Apple or I would have a really

  trendy cool designed monochrome blog

  where I wrote about it every day I'm not

  thinking of one in particular by the way

  because I don't know any of them that is

  what they all sort of seem like to me

  all these like really minimalist design

  blogs I'll tell you another thing about

  podcasters that annoys me is when they

  refer to the fact that they wrote about

  something like that's a big deal but you

  know yeah I can talk on a podcast all

  day but actually I wrote an article

  about that like suddenly that oh hang on

  you wrote an article about that well

  that's different political podcasts are

  really bad for this like political

  journalists who like just waffle about

  politics and they'll say actually I

  wrote an article about that this week

  they're probably worse than the Apple

  people for that like it's somehow now

  it's scripture cuz it's written down and

  it's more important than just waffling

  don't you think it is though Brady I

  mean this is one of the things I like

  about podcasts is I mean you and I we've

  just shown up we're having a little chat

  here even though we were just talking

  about the American centric mists of

  American news and I feel like that's a

  very different conversation than if I

  sat down and I was going to write an

  article defending that same topic right

  if you write something I think it is a

  bigger deal than - doing a podcast cuz

  in the podcast you're just talking right

  yeah okay I see what you're saying but I

  think it puts an importance on what's

  written basically just on a blog on the

  Internet into some kind of important

  fear they'd like that's not like it's

  gone through peer review

  and it's more right you're still just

  some Joker who wrote an article on a

  blog actually I wrote now - cool about

  that so now now what I'm saying like has

  more credence or something like no it

  doesn't you just also wrote down what

  you think I guess I know what you're

  saying but I still feel like they're

  very different things what is your you

  don't like your one that when they're

  simply referencing that's like oh I have

  an important piece of work and you're

  listening to a podcast and you're

  thinking like hey you're a guy listen to

  talk about politics all the time what's

  the difference if you've written it down

  versus you're talking about it it just

  sort of seems irrelevant it's like okay

  good for you i'm listening to the

  podcast like it's okay if they say like

  there's a lot of things about that that

  you know I'm not gonna say now so you

  should be the article but they just they

  just sort of say it as an aside

  oh yeah wrote an article about that and

  then they go on to regurgitate sort of

  the odd I don't know there's something

  about it that just rubs me up the wrong

  way it's like a paper cut mm-hmm

  the thing that's funny to me about this

  is I just always feel like we said

  before everything we're talking about on

  this podcast is sort of off the record

  because we're just talking like on my

  Wikipedia page I sometimes see quotes

  from things that I've said on the

  podcasts like on my own Wikipedia page

  explaining a thing and I always feel

  like weirdly annoyed by that like but it

  was just I was just talking like but now

  this quote of a thing that I just said

  offhandedly is like the representative

  thing on this topic whereas I would feel

  very differently about that if I had

  written an article and then the

  Wikipedia article was like quoting the

  article that I had written it just it

  does feel like they're very different

  things to me Brady yeah I know I know

  you feel that way that's fair enough

  and also like it is also just

  cross-promotion and I mean we often talk

  about things and I'll say I made a video

  about that it's completely extraneous to

  what we're talking about so I'm guilty

  of it too so Mia Copa you should make a

  video about it Brady I should I haven't

  made a video about the new iPhone or

  read an article about it or seen one you

  guys you have to do an unboxing really

  do you unboxing channel yet there could

  be more popular than all your other

  actually I make calculator unboxings

  we'll put a link in the show notes I

  think you should really spin that off

  into something else it could be a

  full-time dad wore f-- numberphile

  immediately is the iphone x a big deal

  this is the one time like you're really

  asking the wrong person Brady because

  I didn't actually watch the keynote this

  year I was in an extremely low Internet

  area so I haven't actually seen the

  presentation or anything I just read a

  couple of those articles afterwards

  people wrote down their thoughts to get

  a summary of what's going on I'm not

  saying people shouldn't write articles

  or write down their thoughts by the way

  like technology articles and blogs are

  not only like good I like them and I

  read them

  I'm not against writing you heard here

  first people Brady : against writing and

  there's some good ones there are a few

  people who we know who I think write

  really cool tech blogs it's when

  someone's on a podcast saying I wrote an

  article about this Azlan okay that's

  good but obviously to your podcast at

  the moment so let's talk let's have a

  little chat I feel like I've

  misrepresented myself but anyway let's

  move on to the new iPhone yeah but you

  know what thank god this is a podcast

  and people can hear that in the

  conversation as opposed to every was

  just transcribed and written in an

  article then it seems like it's

  something set in stone are confused

  thoughts about about these matters I

  don't know man like I'm not the person

  here who's gonna try to sell you on an

  iPhone X have you ordered one they're

  not able to be ordered yet but I mean

  yes I will order one as soon as I can

  but I think that is also for anyone who

  has listened to this podcast and has

  heard both of us do our various iPhone

  switches over the years in the past what

  is it now four years of this design I

  have been unhappy with and and

  frustrated with the phones at at both

  sizes so I am excited far less because

  of the technology that is in the phone

  and far more simply because oh thank god

  it's a different size after four years

  and maybe I'll like this size better

  than the phones that I've been living

  with in the past what size is this one

  what's it massage off it's in between

  the two sizes it's like a little bit

  bigger than the regular iPhone and it's

  as if that iPhone was all scream except

  obviously for that notch at the top so

  I'm hoping the fact that the screen size

  is larger if not the body size is much

  larger we'll get rid of some of my

  typing frustrations that I've had with

  the phone that is the reason that I'm

  ordering it is I feel like please let me

  like this

  if you're looking for someone to

  evangelize how technically impressive

  the iPhone X is you are with the wrong

  podcasting partner for this one I'm

  sorry baby I cannot tell you on this

  device I'm worried about the lack of the

  home button because whenever I have to

  swipe things from the bottom of my

  iPhone as it is now I'm so hopeless at

  that I'm like oh oh it takes me about

  eight goes to bring up that swipey thing

  at the bottom so if the home button is

  anything like that functionality it's

  bad news for me remember look Brady we

  all know that the future is no buttons

  all right all of the buttons go away I'm

  sure someday we won't have volume

  buttons on the side it'll be nothing but

  swipe gestures all over the place that's

  what's going to happen there you're

  passing on the iPhone X yeah 10 would

  you like it more if it was called iPhone

  Pro Brady I would suddenly be tempted if

  they cracked out the prairie I think

  this exact same phone if they said it's

  iPhone Pro you might feel the call of

  Apple tugging on your wallet yeah I'd be

  thinking oh well I'm not supposed to be

  a professional person maybe I well

  haven't I got a pro do you not Brady

  literally watch videos professionally on

  your phone is that not one of the

  primary use cases I probably will have

  to get the prayer mmm

  yeah when they do that that's when

  Apple's gonna get your money yeah did

  you hear that Apple that's how you get a

  Brady on the hook there's a few bucks to

  be made over here in the UK one customer

  waiting for the pro well we'll say I'll

  have a look at yours when you get it and

  decide from there I'll talk to you on

  the podcast about it but I won't

  actually believe what you say until

  you've written article on your blog no

  Brady the one topic that relates to

  YouTube that never stops is copyright

  copyright on YouTube is the topic that

  never ever ends and we're talking by the

  two shows ago we were talking about it

  last show with regards to h3 h3 and

  their copyright lawsuit that has gone on

  and I thought oh we've gone through the

  copyright topic we probably won't talk

  about it again but just recently another

  thing has occurred in YouTube land with

  regards to complications over copyright

  that I I thought was a tricky case

  I just kind of wanted to bring up yeah

  are you aware at all of what's been

  going on in the world of PewDiePie and

  video game copyright is this a story

  that's crossed your radar what's your

  guess I'm gonna guess no correct no idea

  what you're talking about

  yeah this is one of these funny little

  moments where I feel that we do live in

  these non-overlapping bubbles of what's

  going on in the world do you know what

  happened with bricks and negotiations in

  the last couple of days I literally

  didn't know exit negotiations I love it

  I love it but you know all about what's

  happening at a video game channel on

  YouTube this is the moment where again I

  can be very sympathetic to your position

  because I am sitting here thinking I

  kind of can't believe that as someone

  who makes their living on YouTube like

  you haven't come across this thing

  that's going on and into some way shape

  or form but obviously you haven't but

  you are you would be quite right to say

  you can't believe that is someone who

  lives in the UK and has professionally

  made videos about the politics of the UK

  I have not heard anything about brexit

  we're as bad as each other we are about

  it is there anything I need to know

  about brexit is there anything I should

  worry about Brady just before Justin

  yeah it's still a big bows up okay great

  so I haven't met anything yet than that

  all right well let me tell you about

  something that really matters it's okay

  tell me what's happening on YouTube and

  with PewDiePie I'm gonna do a very

  high-level overview of what's going on

  here because in some ways I don't think

  that the details really matter but I

  think the broad point is more

  interesting okay so PewDiePie the

  largest subscribed YouTube channel at

  the time of recordings got 50 million

  something subscribers crazy number that

  makes no sense

  he's also recently gotten in to live

  streaming so playing his games live on

  the internet and he got himself into a

  whole world of trouble by saying a very

  bad word that he shouldn't have said

  what was the word it was the N word

  Brady oh okay right yeah that doesn't go

  down well

  no it doesn't go down well he said

  nobody read but not the word nobody it

  was even naughtier met he said it

  naughty word but it wasn't that N word

  that's not the word that misaeng yeah so

  he got himself into a whole load

  yeah so now PewDiePie has made videos of

  a video game called

  fire watch right in his past he's

  recorded them they're up on his YouTube

  channel he didn't say any naughty words

  in those it was just very typical he's

  recording himself playing a video game

  and putting it up for his fans

  yeah so then what happened was the

  company that makes that video game

  because of the thing that he said on his

  livestream yeah decided to file DMCA

  takedowns against all of his videos

  featuring their content rah and he got a

  copyright strike against his channel now

  in the YouTube world getting a copyright

  strike getting an official real strike

  against your channel is a pretty big

  deal because if you get three strikes

  your channel is just totally removed

  from YouTube all of your videos are

  deleted the channels just gone I think

  they elapse after a certain amount of

  time I'm not 100% sure about that but

  getting three copyright strikes is a

  super big deal yeah I feel like this is

  right in the heart of this complicated

  topic about copyrights and also like

  YouTube getting into the like the

  business of controlling content on their

  channel and it's like while PewDiePie is

  very difficult to defend in this

  situation I think there's something

  really really dangerous and really

  chilling about a company being able to

  like selectively enforce the copyright

  on their content based on whether or not

  they like the creator or not

  when PewDiePie first uploaded these

  Firewatch videos the ones that are not

  naughty did he have their permission or

  had they just turned a blind eye to the

  copyright because it was great publicity

  from a really famous youtuber like did

  he have permission and they're removing


  retrospectively like what was the status

  at the time before this n-word thing

  happened the short answer is the company

  that makes fire watch on their official

  web page have an FAQ where they say you

  can make videos about our game you can

  stream this game and you are allowed to

  monetize this game like go ahead go nuts

  okay so the the developers of the game

  did give sort of a blanket permission to

  the world of go ahead you can record

  this this video game and you can stream

  it and that was just sort of given out

  to everybody and that's part of what I

  think is this kind of dangerous thing

  that I really don't like YouTube going

  along with this of him allowing the

  company to retroactively Lee remove

  someone's content simply because they

  don't like that creator anymore there's

  something about that that feels really

  dangerous as a precedent that sets on

  YouTube and it makes me as a sometimes

  very rare game streamer a bit

  uncomfortable with how that has worked

  out I mean there's a certain

  arbitrariness to how you can enforce

  your own copyright like if the Daily

  Mail pinch one of my videos I may go to

  town and try to get money out of them

  and kick up a fuss mm-hmm but if another

  organization free boots me I might have

  been a good mood one day and do nothing

  I can see how you can be arbitrary on

  who you prosecute for lack of a better

  word for taking your material and

  Firewatch could potentially be within

  their rights if they hadn't said in the

  past this is okay so I don't think you

  can move the goalposts after you've done

  that like if PewDiePie was taking a risk

  and Firewatch had always said this is

  our game you shouldn't be streaming it

  and it turned a blind eye to PewDiePie

  for years and then one day he turned

  into a bad character and they said all

  right now we're gonna enforce like that

  would be a bit douchey but like it would

  sort of seem within the rules but if

  they have already said as you say on

  their FAQ you can stream the game

  and it was done in good faith I think

  that is very unfair it seems unfair I

  really don't like that YouTube has gone

  along with that and has issued a

  copyright strike against PewDiePie it

  seems like two entities deciding that

  that for content reasons not for the

  like official rules reasons that they're

  going to enforce the thing and that

  always just kind of makes me a little

  bit uncomfortable but it's an

  interesting situation because Let's

  Plays and people who record themselves

  playing video games on the Internet

  this is like the greatest of grey areas

  when it comes to a question of what is

  fair use and when we were talking about

  with the h3h3 lawsuit and I kept saying

  oh I think this is the bare minimum of

  what I might consider fair use under the

  rules as they were written the live

  streaming stuff and the video game

  streaming stuff is like oh my god we're

  in this fog and there's no ability to

  see in any direction where we're

  actually standing and there is like this

  I almost want to call it like a like a

  date hunt between most video game

  companies and video game streamers where

  nobody seems to want to bring up any

  kind of court case that would actually

  resolve this like it's it is astounding

  to me that this far into YouTube and

  this far into game streaming as a hugely

  popular thing there have been no court

  cases that have set any meaningful

  precedents on the concept of is

  recording yourself playing a video game

  fair use or not no companies want to

  make this move and many many companies

  take the the policy sort of like what

  you were saying before of simply not

  saying anything publicly about it it's

  very interesting I kind of wonder if

  this thing between PewDiePie and the

  company that makes Firewatch might

  actually end up becoming one of the

  first precedent-setting court cases

  depending on how far Firewatch wants to

  take it but the very concept of should

  someone recording themselves playing a

  video game count as fair use is a thing

  that I feel like I have no ability to

  come to a decision on that even as

  someone who has streamed him

  of playing video games I will happily

  acknowledge that that feels like it's in

  a really big gray area about how much of

  this content is like transformative

  versus how much of it is just showing

  what the game developers themselves have

  created so gray as you know I haven't

  been following this debate but I do know

  that PewDiePie is not famous for being

  silent on such matters

  has he been kicking up a ruckus and

  saying this is an outrage and going to

  the mattresses he's made a few videos

  about it but of course that's his stock

  in trade

  he's a controversial character and then

  he gets to make videos about his own

  controversies which become popular as

  well said the guys that are still doing

  feedback an error to the episode look

  you know everything feeds on itself in

  some way or another brady but yeah of

  course he's taken the position as well

  that it's that the copyright strike is

  ridiculous and that he had permission

  from from Firewatch but that's exactly

  the position that you would expect him

  to take I mean my initial thought like a

  minute ago I was thinking maybe this is

  just like for show you know like a PR

  thing and it's just like you know that

  when you get officially sanctioned and

  no one's really angry anyone but you

  said the videos have been taken down too

  so his Firewatch videos were taken down

  he got the DMCA copyright strike and the

  thing that I find a little bit a little

  bit in this like threatening kind of way

  is that the developer of fire watch was

  on Twitter and was calling for other

  developers to issue copyright strikes

  retro actively against PewDiePie and

  it's like man you only need two other

  people to do that and if he gets three

  copyright strikes at once like his whole

  channel goes yeah they're not gonna do

  that to him you cheap won't let that

  happen to their biggest channel well

  this is a topic for another time but

  let's just say I would personally

  suspect that YouTube might not shed a

  tear if PewDiePie of all people were no

  longer the number one youtuber on their

  platform I don't think YouTube would be

  crying themselves to sleep at night

  thinking oh cutie pie he was the one

  that we wanted to hold up our brand to

  the world fair enough and I think

  YouTube would be way more happy if

  someone like Casey Neistat became the

  number one person and then was the

  representative of YouTube to the world

  well objectivity or objectivity of

  course there's the finalist list

  those things it's which one do they

  think they should have represent YouTube

  itself cave

  Kate's famous cave yeah so great what

  are you gonna do what does this mean for

  CGP player whatever you've killed your

  mom Chell my incredible gaming Chapel

  what happens now is this gonna scare you

  off you're gonna like a little

  frightened rabbit are you gonna run back

  into your hole and not make any more of

  those truck things driving channels

  things well luckily my CTV plays live

  streaming channel is a trivial portion

  of the massive empire that is gray

  industries yeah so from a like a

  personal perspective I don't have to

  worry about that because it's a it's a

  separate thing it's not connected to my

  main industry right you've got it you've

  got it registered like on the Isle of

  Wight or something I guess I think

  that's exactly right oh the bank

  accounts are offshore yeah yeah it's in

  a trust the Isle of Wight that's

  actually owning a company in the Bahamas

  right yeah we have three trustees yeah

  it's a very secure situation so the

  people who make Euro Truck Simulator

  aren't gonna be able to get their hands

  on the main channel Dulles no that's

  they're all quarantined yes it's very

  good but it really is like when I

  started doing that just for fun the

  whole copyright issue around this I

  really do find sort of fascinating

  because a lot of the argument for why

  let's play video should should be fair

  use is that the streamers will argue

  it's a kind of performance it's like

  well yes yeah the thing that you're

  looking at on the screen is content

  that's created by somebody else but

  there is a performance that is occurring

  on top of it look if I went out and

  bought at a desk juggling balls and made

  a video of me juggling added s couldn't

  say hey those are our juggling balls

  right you know I was just using their

  thing from our performance right he's

  like oh they have a copyrighted sequence

  of colours on them or the pattern right

  so it's like the Eiffel Tower at night

  you know he can't you can't photograph

  it yeah this is the argument that the

  performance makes it transformative but

  then of course like with all of these

  things there is this slider that goes

  from red letter media being totally

  transformative down to the h3 h3 video

  which is like minimally transformative

  and you have stuff that's in between

  there and Euro Truck Simulator or like

  driving American Truck Simulator when

  I'm doing that there are reasonably

  large portions where I'm simply not

  saying anything then all of a sudden we

  get to this very strange situation where

  it's like okay what is occurring on the

  screen here it's like well a man is

  driving a pretend truck on a pretend

  Road and he's saying nothing is this

  transformative I would say it's not

  transformative at all but it's also just

  a virtual representation of a real Road

  like does anybody own the copyright to

  this road that we're driving along all

  not not really it's so hard to

  understand is this fair use and I think

  is another another example of the

  internet really changing and distorting

  what these laws were originally written

  for and you end up in all sorts of

  situations where it's hard to understand

  how this stuff should apply and and I

  can't come down with any clear decision

  in my mind about should stuff like Let's

  Plays be considered fair use or not I

  think a lot of the companies that are

  making games don't want to push that

  issue either I think they're very happy

  with this date hunt of not saying

  anything but I think that this Firewatch

  thing is the first little breakdown in

  maybe this day tante can't last forever

  and at at some point someone is going to

  have to force the issue and the courts

  will have to decide whether gameplay is

  fair use or not can I just ask a quick

  thing about the truck simulator game

  yeah I haven't watched a lot of your

  playing videos but I've occasionally

  dipped in once or twice when I've seen

  people saying you know your pause

  playing now on Twitter mhm

  every time I look at you playing that

  game you seem to be crashing the truck

  into stuff yeah but are you good at it

  am I just happening to watch at times

  when you're making mistakes or because

  every time I've watched you play it

  you're dreadful at it now I want to get

  this on the record I'm very good at that

  game know that the problem is that

  you're drunk no Brady although I will

  say if you ever want to see an actual

  demonstration of how much alcohol

  effects you play a truck simulator game

  because sometimes I play the game on the

  couch like when my wife and I are just

  sort of watching TV and I like to have

  it as a mindless thing to do with my

  hands and it is very noticeable like

  hilariously noticeable that what I would

  consider to be a minimal amount of

  alcohol like oh I have had a glass

  of wine surely I don't feel like I'm

  affected this doesn't affect me at all

  is like truck simulator says different

  like it's it is fascinating to say as I


  I would not have guessed that my

  reflexes were different but they sure

  are different but now when I'm

  live-streaming it's it's a different

  thing simply because there's a whole

  bunch of stuff going on and they're

  people chatting like they're people who

  are interacting with me and so when I

  crash it's because people have

  distracted me in the chat you're like

  texting and driving that is exactly

  what's happening when you see me

  crashing on the Euro Truck Simulator I'm

  not drinking it is an advertisement for

  how bad texting and driving is because

  that's essentially what's occurring

  there don't text and drive kids you'll

  crash seriously don't this it's such a

  bad thing yeah it's it's horrific

  I'm serious grey it's bad man I'm deadly

  serious as well yeah I've seen a bunch

  of studies saying that it is as bad or

  worse than drinking a frequent topic on

  the podcast uber I think that that is

  one thing I will I will give drivers

  really harsh ratings for us if they're

  texting while driving yeah and I did it

  recently I gave a dude one-star and

  contacted uber about that this dude was

  driving dangerously because he was he

  was texting through an intersection I

  was like okay forget it

  I wouldn't put up with it if you were

  drinking through this intersection so

  I'm certainly gonna write it up if you

  were texting through an intersection I'm

  off a bit now gray oh really

  what are you doing there's not lift in

  the UK he's there now I'm walking uh

  what are you doing I don't know yeah I

  just got him black cabs the other day I

  was going to install lifts I didn't know

  I couldn't do it in the UK but I hadn't

  actually got around to replacing ever

  okay so you're back on uber that's what

  you're saying well no I'm not back on it

  yeah and I'm not gonna use it in America

  why are you off it they didn't show me

  the respect I deserve

  no do I even want to know Brady what

  happened oh it's a boring corporate

  compensation corner okay alright yeah

  we'll leave it believe it at that with

  there is let's leave it for another day

  leave it for another day I'll let you

  know once it's resolved if it's

  interesting I'll let you know okay for

  now uber or on my blacklist

  okay the breeding blacklist hmm beware

  beware companies yeah I wanna be on that

  hi everyone welcome to my bathroom I'm

  just gonna be running you through a

  Harry shave while I talk about them it's

  some water going here

  I've got my Harry's or weaponry ready

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  although it's not and now just let me

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  satisfying as a new one clicks into


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  them the blades are made in Germany so

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  let's be clear on the offer here Harry's

  comm /h I short for hello internet for a

  free trial offer that's $13 a value for


  when you sign up you just got to cover

  the shipping and that sets going to

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  I'm holding such a handle in my

  and at the moment just connect I'm not


  it's a good shape I'm literally shaving

  right now in the set you're also gonna

  have five precision-engineered blades

  with lubricating strips trimmer blade

  you get a rich lathering gel I actually

  use the shave cream I like the hair

  use the shave cream I like the hair

  shave cream but the gel apparently is

  really good too that comes in the kit

  and you get a travel blade cover that's

  harrys.com /h I go and have a look at

  their website because they've got some

  other nicer products as well including

  sort of lotions and potions for your

  face and I know a lot of people like

  years ago were always complaining that

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  have a look at their website and see

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  they also make really great gifts I'm

  gonna finish the show even let you get

  back on with hello Internet his Trip

  Advisor on their blacklist no

  TripAdvisor is not on my blacklist bit

  as you have seen in the notes that is

  what I would like to ask you about next

  I was trying to do a segue their

  breeding they took a leaf out of my book

  back I'm proud of you learning from your

  vice host don't say that baby it's awful

  it's already a thing that genies out of

  the bottle you degrade yourself when you

  say vice host don't do it I already get

  emails from people calling me vice ace

  now all right what do you want to know

  about Trip Advisor buddy so you use Trip

  Advisor presumably like you know when

  you're going places and and so do i it's

  a useful resource my question is a

  simple one

  do you ever contribute to Trip Advisor

  or are you like me a parasite I am NOT

  like you a parasite yeah but it's just

  by a technicality let me tell you a

  little story reading please two summers

  ago my wife and I were driving across

  America we're going to a family reunion

  and we wanted to get some breakfasts and

  at that point in my life breakfast was a

  very important meal to me at that point

  you're like yeah I don't do breakfast

  anymore it turns out breakfast is

  bullshit you don't need it that's a lie

  but two years ago gray was real grumpy

  if he didn't get his breakfast okay so

  my wife and I we look up on TripAdvisor

  we're trying to find a place and we

  eventually pick a place that looks like

  it's nearby

  and has a reasonable TripAdvisor

  so we go into the restaurant hmm and you

  know when you're with another person

  sometimes it's it's a little bit hard to

  judge what's going on in the other

  person's mind and you know how when

  you're traveling you want you have a

  certain amount of like you want to go

  along with things yeah but I walk

  through the door of this restaurant and

  I just immediately thought I don't know

  about this I can't put my finger on what

  it is something is amiss here and where

  I on my own I would have turned around

  right then but you're with someone and

  there's like an inertia that you the two

  of you have rolled through the door

  together and so you just don't say

  anything did you think it was like

  unsafe or unhygenic or like what was the

  feel it's hard to say what it was just a

  little bit of something's not right okay

  the decor in the restaurant was I would

  say quirky but something just seemed off

  and I couldn't place it

  I hope this is gonna end up but from

  dusk to dawn and it was like a vampire

  hangout or something I'm afraid it was

  not a vampire hangout but there was

  nobody else in the restaurant which is

  objective thing one yeah that's a

  problem it's not that's not a good sign

  hmm there's a little bit of confusion

  the waitress eventually shows up with

  what I presume is like the owner who's

  sort of standing nearby by the counter

  like I can't quite figure out what the

  situation is we're looking at the menu

  we order what we're gonna order and they

  go they disappear off back into the

  kitchen the two of them hmm and I'm

  realizing it's super warm in this

  restaurant like uncomfortably warm as

  we're sitting there and then suddenly a

  fly lands on my wife and then I noticed

  there's some flies on the window and all

  of a sudden your senses just tune into

  it immediately like there's flies

  everywhere there's a fly in her hair

  there's flies in my hair I was like this

  is disgusting

  what's going on in this restaurant and

  then as I'm like looking at my wife

  she's looking at me and she's

  recognizing all the Flies all of a

  sudden and we're getting to that moment

  of like uh-oh what have we done yeah and

  then we hear from the kitchen the two

  people are arguing

  they're arguing about how the things

  that we just ordered were supposed to be

  made there's some kind of like great

  disagreement occurring in the kitchen

  yeah and so my wife and I we got up I

  took her hand and I said we're getting

  out of here and we essentially just ran

  to the car and drove away there's so

  many flies this place is so disgusting

  there's an argument occurring in the

  kitchen we're just getting out of here

  they've no explanation required we're

  just leaving that was the last time we

  ever went to big Joe's sloppy buns

  yeah that restaurant is the only time I

  have left a review on TripAdvisor I gave

  them one star and I wrote a review

  warning everybody else away that I go so

  that is my one and only contribution to


  which is now bigs desperately sort by

  tims across the internet aside from that

  one incident I'm essentially a parasite

  I have I have not reviewed anything I

  think you're pretty much parasite and

  the funny thing is I can't think of a

  nice holiday that I've been on where my

  wife and I haven't sat over like a

  lovely meal or a cocktail saying Oh what

  would we write on TripAdvisor about this

  place and we go through all the

  different things we do and like the

  lovely review we write and we always say

  well we must do that when we get back

  that would be really useful so many

  people have helped us with the reviews

  that's right a really useful review of

  this place you get home never do it just

  forget about it you discuss the

  theoretical TripAdvisor review that you

  would learn like we don't like you know

  craft the wording yeah you're not

  writing an article about it now are you

  you're just having a conversation yes

  they're two totally different things I

  completely understand writing an article

  about it would be would be a much more

  important thing to do wouldn't it I

  don't know I feel like people have been

  doing us a service and we can return the

  favor cuz it's not always just like

  praise you know oh this would be a

  useful thing to know and that we don't

  do it I don't think you should feel any

  kind of guilt about this that Brady

  because one of the ways all of these

  kinds of things were like obviously they

  are a useful reference

  but there is a part of it which is that

  if you are writing a review for

  TripAdvisor or Yelp or any of these kind

  of services hmm in that moment you're

  essentially doing advertising work for

  the place that you were visiting well I

  don't think you were advertising big joe

  sloppy buns when you wrote that really

  negative review or you're anti

  advertising you're kicking sand in their

  faiths our read reviews where I've said

  things like you know try to get water

  Villa number seven because it's got the

  best view of the sunset and stuff like

  that like you can get useful information

  in these things yeah but see that's a

  different thing because I feel like if I

  go to a place and there's this is the

  thing this is the good thing to do I

  feel like that's a--that's like a trade

  secret that I want to keep for myself I

  don't want to let people in on what the

  secret is when they when they visit the

  place I'm gonna keep the information to

  myself yeah I mean that's yeah but

  you've benefited from it when you read

  the review in the first place yeah

  that's a bit selfish isn't it fine

  that's okay but that's that's where the

  guilt comes from I don't feel any guilt

  about that kind of thing I'm not sitting

  here wracked with guilt and I don't like

  you know I'm not I'm not thinking like

  I'm the world's worst person and it's

  fine I think TripAdvisor would be more

  useful if more people like me wrote

  reviews mm-hmm it's like when you're

  really angry at uber and by the time you

  record the podcast you've like you know

  you've just lost the fire in your belly

  it's the same with a holiday once you're

  back home you've you've lost your

  creative flame for writing a bit of

  purple prose about how lovely the place

  works yeah I don't feel any guilt here

  because there's there's like what's

  occurring here is the interaction

  between two corporations and a while

  TripAdvisor and and services like it

  they're obviously useful to everybody it

  is also totally the fact that it's

  because of all of the user contributions

  that TripAdvisor has any value at all

  and so even if you don't feel like

  you're doing advertising work for the

  restaurant that you have just visited

  because you're you're writing about how

  there's flies everywhere and they argue

  in the kitchen yeah whatever you write

  you are still then doing a kind of

  unpaid work to build up the value of the

  company of TripAdvisor yeah okay but the

  thing is

  you're willing to extract that free

  value you're just not willing to put any

  back in right it's fine it's selfish but

  it's fine and it's okay and they get

  their value in other ways I mean they

  are running ads and you know I'm not

  feeling sorry for TripAdvisor here again

  this this is a kind of company that can

  exist very differently in the Internet

  than traditional companies could yeah

  and it runs a ground of some of these

  things and don't give her a I totally

  get what you're saying and I will be the

  first to admit that I am like a parasite

  on the review systems of the world like

  I just I rarely contribute and I

  constantly extract value hmm but I don't

  feel bad about it because I do think

  these companies part of the way they're

  able to do it is that like they

  themselves are treading on a kind of

  social expectation among the users to

  contribute I just can't feel that way

  about the company where it's it's like

  well you you company are making this

  available to me for free and I am happy

  to enjoy your free resource see I think

  the difference between you and I in this

  conversation though is that I'm not even

  thinking about TripAdvisor as a company

  like to me that's an abstraction I'm

  thinking about the other holiday makers

  and me as a holiday maker and the

  relationship between us right I feel a

  bit like you know if I stumbled and fell

  down a pothole in the street hmm and

  then just walked away quietly and didn't

  tell anyone else that was there and the

  next person fell on the pothole I feel

  like oh maybe I should have told some

  people about it I'm not thinking of

  TripAdvisor I'm not thinking of the

  businesses that run holidays and the

  restaurants and the hotel's I'm thinking

  about my fellow your fellow Internet

  citizens yeah I totally get it and

  actually the pothole comparison is great

  because I think it runs parallel to what

  I was gonna say it would be a different


  so the different thing with the pothole

  is we are all members of an involuntary

  corporation which is the municipal

  government like we're all paying taxes

  into it we're all here as part of

  society like this is a coordination

  that's occurring between the large

  number of people and so the like

  reporting a pothole kind of thing like

  yeah I would totally do that I know that

  I have done that kind of

  something like TripAdvisor it just feels

  different because it's a for-profit

  entity if TripAdvisor was something kind

  of different if it was like a

  not-for-profit open-source collaborative

  thing kind of like the Wikipedia is sort

  of like I would feel more guilt about it

  which is why like my wife and I do

  contribute to Wikipedia because it feels

  like it's so much more on the on the end

  of like a social good and people have

  tried to get distributed review systems

  off the ground or things like

  distributed social networks off the

  ground they've never really taken off

  because I think this is a space that

  just ends up being one where commercial

  interests will naturally dominate but

  for me that there is a part of it that I

  cannot ignore that it this isn't just a

  direct interaction between me and fellow

  citizens that there is an entity that is

  profiting from the interaction between

  me and fellow citizens and if it was

  more peer-to-peer in the way that I

  think a government interaction would be

  or the way a different sort of system

  would be then I would genuinely feel

  more guilt for being a like a parasite

  upon the system again they you just

  can't get your brain away from the

  company and the money I will totally

  agree like that is a thing that is

  unlike the owl watches over us all right

  as we're we're contributing those

  reviews I don't agree with you right

  like I feel like I'm the same as you I'm

  a parasite but I feel like that defense

  doesn't work for me and I feel like to

  me that's not an acceptable position

  that you're taking like I don't care if

  you write reviews or not but to me that

  argument doesn't hold water as you make

  it there but if you then said to me I

  once wrote a review on TripAdvisor for

  my fellow man and it was removed by

  TripAdvisor or they edited it then I

  would completely agree with you and

  think I'll hang on a second this is just

  a company this isn't between me and the

  other holidaymakers they're editing

  things because their customers are

  unhappy and they're and then I would

  totally agree with you and actually I

  think that does happen on TripAdvisor so

  so I kind of probably am on your side in

  a way but the single argument that the

  whole system was set up by a company

  that makes money like doesn't stop you

  taking the value from it there is also a

  similar thing which I totally changed my

  mind on which is when self checkout

  machines were first introduced my

  initial reaction long ago was this is

  ridiculous they're having me work as an

  unpaid employee bagging my own groceries

  here I guess is outrageous that the

  grocery store

  wants me to do free work for them I will

  do no such that and now of course as

  Luthor's no it's like I couldn't be

  happier to be packing my own groceries

  yeah so I'm not perfectly consistent on

  this issue but yeah that was a place

  where I felt the same way I was like I

  can't ignore the commercial interaction

  that's that's taking place here like

  look at you grocery store so cynically

  saving money on wages by deferring labor

  to the actual customers and now I'm now

  very happy to be part of that system got

  time for a quick paper cut blitz we

  haven't done Brady's paper cuts for so

  long I feel like every time we do paper

  cuts you say we haven't done paper cuts

  for so long but it seems like we do

  paper cuts all the time maybe one of my

  paper cuts is you not letting me do

  paper cuts enough have I ever stopped

  you from doing paper cuts Brady no never

  no you haven't I stopped you in the Edit

  sometimes in the actual moment have I

  ever stopped you no I never have no you

  just gotta make a cup of tea and let me

  waffle for a few minutes yeah I throw

  down a delete marker and then I come

  back yep all right I'm gonna do a

  lightning round okay lightning round

  lightning round so that people won't get

  bored one of my paper cuts is when I get

  an email from someone usually wanting

  some kind of commercial or work

  interaction and they will make a really

  big point of saying what a huge fan they

  are of my work and they have been for a

  really really long time to try and like

  curry my favor when they get to what

  they want and then I go and look at

  their Twitter and they don't follow me

  and there's no indication that they have

  any idea who I am whatsoever because I

  would do that if someone makes a big

  enough deal about how how much they

  personally engaged by me and how they've

  loved my videos for so long right and

  I'll go and look through the four or

  five hundred people they follow on

  Twitter and none of my Twitter's or

  channels or anything I do is there

  that's like a well you're not getting a

  reply now

  if you ever want to trick me into

  thinking you really are a fan who wants

  to do business with me right at least

  follow me on Twitter a few weeks before

  you send the email like I'm not stupid

  uh-huh I'm gonna do my homework what if

  they follow hundreds of thousands of

  people on Twitter does that change this

  situation Wow yeah do you feel less

  special then well I can't go through and

  check that so I don't know but sometimes

  that make a really big deal of it you

  can tell they've even gone and done a

  little bit of like sneaky homework like

  oh I loved your recent video on Grahams

  number which is obviously they've just

  gone and had a quick look at the channel

  and seen the first title they could you

  know I'm going to investigate you'd

  further than that before I do business

  with you and if you're not following me

  on Twitter

  well you've fallen at the first hurdle

  very enough if you're not a fan and you

  just say I want to do a deal okay

  alright we don't have to be mutual

  appreciation society here but don't tell

  me you are I don't lie

  oh were the problems that Brady has to

  deal with as someone who gets these

  kinds of emails they are hilarious

  sometimes another funny when you get

  when you do a podcast is when people who

  say they listen to the podcast obviously

  don't because that they're willing to

  suggest like one of their clients as a

  guest for your next episode on that

  queue of guests that we've had recently

  I've gotten that one so many times yeah

  it's great I love the show

  you should have my client on as your

  nest guest it's like I've got some bad

  news for you because it lets your

  clients Brady I don't think it's gonna

  be on the show I'll tell you another pro

  tip for the people who have that spammy

  Sayer job and I kind of feel sorry for

  them because you know it's a pretty

  soul-destroying thing to have to do when

  you're like copying and pasting all the

  stuff you're plagiarizing from the net

  to create this impression that you know

  who I am go through and fix your

  formatting so it's all like the same

  font size and color and type like the

  same like don't make it like

  painstakingly obvious that you have to

  copy this from that because that's bold

  and that's in italics and that's four

  points bigger than the word before like

  like if you're gonna do this cobble and

  paste right at least make it look like

  you wrote one coherent

  sentence I have a unique situation that

  occurs that is hilarious to me every

  time where I can tell that some sort of

  algorithm has been involved in creating

  this business the email that's coming to

  me because the email will be addressed

  dear CGP grey and it's CGP like the way

  I write it on the YouTube channel all

  together and then gray but it's capital

  C lowercase G and P and then capital

  gray because like nobody would write

  three initials together I'll cap that's

  crazy talk like the computer just thinks

  like the CG P must be a name so the

  first one must be capital and then the G

  and P must have to be lowercase because

  they're like your name is yeah I

  could've put grey and it's like is

  hilarious every time is like oh okay Ike

  I can see your inner workings here

  algorithm like this is the first line of

  the 10,000 emails that you have sent off

  and you are just scraping data from

  YouTube or Twitter and this one the way

  I happen to format my name just doesn't

  fit your expectations of how the forum

  email is gonna go out all right well

  that was supposed to be a lightning

  papercut but we seem to have gone on a

  bit of a rant there do we ever do any

  topic very quickly I don't think we do

  no it's friendly enough there's a segue

  to my next lightning papercut is to do

  with things being done quickly this is

  dangerous territory because people who

  do this are really proud of themselves

  about doing it but my next paper cut is

  people listening to podcasts

  particularly our podcast at a higher

  speed than it was recorded at this is

  not a paper cut about people who have

  put the feature into their app I'm also

  talking about you know the ability to

  remove silences and stuff like that like

  you know there's these pradhan I've got

  all different names and stuff and it's

  very clever and I have no problem with

  people putting it in their apps because

  that's what the customers want and you

  have to make yes but I think it's

  counterproductive to do it and the best

  example was in a recent episode where

  you called for a moment silence for CGP

  grey the lady penguin and we were both

  silent for a few seconds and anyone

  listening to it with the silence remover

  just then got the start of the next

  sentence straight away and I also think

  like speeding things up or

  moving pauses like just tramples all

  over things like comic timing mm-hmm and

  like a motion can be lost like if I say

  something to you that you can't believe

  because it's just another stupid analogy

  you leave and there's like a few moments

  of silence from you that speaks more

  than a thousand words and yet someone

  listening with all that stuff snipped

  out is missing out on that they're

  missing our art is that what is that

  with them is so do you think that the

  people who listen at higher speeds or

  with silences snipped out their only

  cheating themselves from the poor past

  class experience I think they are I

  think they're missing out on the true

  human experience mm-hmm but I also know

  the people who use these features love

  the fact they use these features so I'm

  not I know I'm not going to convert them

  but it's just a mud it's an annoyance of

  mine you know I do this right Brady yeah

  no no yeah I listen to this very podcast

  2x although I think that's not that's

  not quite a fair comparison but yeah I

  have occasionally by accident sent you

  the 2x version you had I know you always

  enjoy when I make that mistake but

  that's okay you know you do what you

  want but I think you're missing out and

  I have seen some people who say I listen

  to podcast X at high speed but not

  podcast why those people okay I think

  maybe you are using these features the

  way they should be used maybe you know

  some picking and choosing is good but

  overall I don't do it myself because I

  feel like I'm missing out on really

  knowing cuz I I like the people whose

  podcast I was into and I want to know

  what they really like and I think you

  really know what someone's like when

  you've you hear everything about them

  it's all about nuance yeah these things

  are nuanced removers I know what you're

  saying obviously I can't get entirely on

  board because they don't do this I use

  silence removal and on my podcast that I

  have I will crank some podcasts up to

  about one and a half speed which when

  you also then add in silence removal

  gets it very close to 1.8 or 2x but I am

  I'm also in that category of it depends

  on the podcast so I like I have

  different settings for different shows

  are there ones that you

  we'll leave untouched cuz you want to

  hear it you know as God intended if a

  show is a funny show or ever like if I

  just personally find the hosts funny I

  do genuinely think that removing the

  silence messes up some moments it does

  mess up the way the timing comes across

  but I think that like the higher speed

  stuff is totally like I listen to a

  bunch of shows that are sort of like

  tech news II kind of shows yeah and

  there I think it's way more appropriate

  to crank up the speed a little bit on

  that because it's it's not quite the

  same thing it's like I want to listen to

  a show but maybe I don't want to spend

  an hour on it I want to spend 30 minutes

  on I guess it says something about my

  podcast listening to then cuz I like a

  long podcast and like the longer the

  better so the last thing I'd want to do

  is like you know I don't feel like I'm

  like number five needing input having to

  read get everything into my brain as

  quick as possible

  my podcasting is like it's sort of

  leisure time in a lot of ways I wouldn't

  like the idea of just cramming it in as

  fast as I can so I can get onto the next


  it's why I like having different

  settings on different shows and it

  depends on what the kind of show is

  obviously people who are listening to

  this very show right now at 3x with what

  the silence removed if that's the way

  you want to do it as totally fine I'm

  okay with that I will not look down upon

  your choice although if you ever ever

  meet Brady and I in person at some event

  someday it may seem like we are the

  slowest talkers in the world if you are

  used to listening us at at super high

  speed and I do see that comment very

  often when people jump on the youtube

  version of the show because it doesn't

  have whatever their podcast app settings

  are stuck at look like oh I thought the

  two of these guys were drunken and I

  realized oh I'm just listening to it at

  One X speed on YouTube instead of reacts

  like I normally do

  so I've had my paper cuts you know that

  means I think we need a quick episode of

  the buzz CGP grey have you got a buzz

  for me I don't really have a an episode

  of the buzz because there isn't that

  much be news grab a mic for people


  I'm trying to always tell me that

  there's tons of B news there it's not

  necessarily the case I'm just I'm going

  B no don't no you don't need to go click

  into the news tab there is a lot of B

  news great no there's no there's no

  penis I don't need to do that

  I could read you seven excellent news

  stories from the last five hours that

  are all that B's it's not true the B

  world is very calm

  it's very staid but okay I just want to

  bring your attention to the emoji pedia

  page for the honeybee emoji I've sent

  you the link okay in iMessage I'm

  looking at all the pictures of the base

  we have brought up emoji fragmentation

  on this show yeah primarily in the

  context of you being upset that the wolf

  emoji no longer looks like Audrey which

  is of course the way it should be

  because it should look like a wolf not

  like a little chihuahua but I've got to

  say this page for what Abby's look like

  so we've got all these different Bay's

  for like Apple and Google and Microsoft

  and Samsung and LG and Facebook and

  Twitter and yeah I don't understand why

  everybody has to have a totally

  different set of emojis and these be

  ones some of them ours are like

  unspeakably terrible can we get our act

  together with the different emojis can't

  we consolidate them why do we have to

  have these different ones why do we have

  to have different communication between

  people if I want to send someone a

  picture of a bee and I think I'm sending

  them like a cute little bee and then I

  actually end up sending them something

  that just looks like a bug we need to

  consolidate these things yeah there is

  some differences in tone that could

  cause problems the question I have is if

  you were in charge of emojis whose emoji

  on this list would you use as the

  default of bees

  well I have an iPhone I have to say

  personally I have always thought that

  Apple's emojis are terrible hmm I've

  never liked Apple going for this little

  3d emoji space they're like too small

  and yet too detailed I have never ever

  liked apples emojis yeah I think for on

  a small scale you should have a flatter

  design for what your emojis look like

  you've clearly thought about this loads

  like I love how you think about this

  stuff but don't you think that makes


  it does make sense yeah it does make

  sense I agree with you I think typically

  emojis are looked at

  well that is changing how small we look

  at our emojis but okay yeah like Apple

  and begin their emojis last year and

  they made them three times larger but

  they're still there's still not huge

  icons right that they're drawn with a

  lot of detail I mean what do you think

  of the Apple ones I don't mind Apple

  emojis I'm not someone who would

  necessarily favor cutesiness and Apple

  maybe is going a little bit down the

  cutesy path but I can see why you would

  favor 2d but in the case of the be out

  an eye you haven't answered my question

  yet which one are you gonna favor of the

  ones on the lists there cuz I have to

  say that's a bad bunch there's nothing

  that's really great here it's a swarm of

  bad emojis at the top we have apple with

  a fat B that looks like no B I have ever

  seen yet it's still trying to be like a

  like a drawing of a B it's like if you

  had a yellow balloon and you drew a

  couple of stripes on it and you said ad

  C that's a be great you know

  nailed it you're not gonna like me

  saying this but that's almost the best

  of the bunch though it almost is though

  I agree looking down at the bottom

  there's like emoji decks and emoji one

  bees that are terrible looking although

  I've never come across those things I

  don't know what they are the emerging

  one one is okay

  yeah the emoji decks one I don't even

  know what I'm moti Texas but I've got a

  terrible emoji for a bee

  whoever is out there using emoji decks

  I'm sorry that that's that's what your

  thing is I can't even like invent what

  that is in my head what emoji Dex is

  like from the name whatever it is the

  representation of a bee is like a man in

  a bee costume wearing a mask stealing

  some honey that's honey he said okay

  yeah boys emoji Dex

  I do not know anyway come on pick one

  Facebook ones all right it's ugly though

  it's sort of 3d but not really too much

  Brown and not enough black but like the

  Mozilla one looks like I designed that

  that's how bad it is the Twitter one is

  also terrible the Microsoft one like I

  don't know what's going on there

  someone went crazy with the stroke tool

  in Photoshop Microsoft is a big fan of

  thick strokes on their emoji now

  here's the thing I'm actually gonna have

  to say that I would probably go with

  Microsoft or I would go with Twitter but

  part of that is the overall design

  aesthetic of emojis so if you click on

  the icon for the Microsoft B where you

  click on the icon for the Twitter B

  it'll bring up what all the Microsoft

  emoji look like and what all the Twitter

  emoji look like okay and I feel like it

  is it is inarguable that the flat

  designs look more consistent as a bunch

  together than the 3d designs of emojis

  they definitely are more consistent yes

  yeah I really like Twitter's emojis

  I think the Microsoft emojis are very

  good and I think the Apple emojis are

  terrible and I don't like them every

  time and as my wife often points out to

  her great frustration the Apple emojis

  are all also really biased towards

  everything being happy like the Apple

  ones is hard to express a wide range of

  negative emotions with the Apple emojis

  it's it's like we're all locked in some

  kind of black mirror future where smiles

  are the things that are best for us to

  express does your wife who she wants to

  express a bit more negativity in her

  life yes yes that is exactly correct

  she's the most positive texter I've ever

  met like she's the most positive texture

  you ever met because she's doing it

  through the Apple system right and so

  it's nothing but smiley faces right

  that's that's the range of expression

  that she is limited to okay so I'm gonna

  say if I had to pick a B emoji I would

  go with Twitter or I would go with

  Microsoft but that is in the context of

  them looking better as a series of

  consistent flat emojis well that wasn't

  what I asked you for I didn't ask you

  for like you know to appraise the whole

  system I just wanted it to be like a

  versus B the Google one though the

  Google one what's going really I'm

  trying to I'm trying to rock the whole

  world into the way I want it to be it's

  like Whitby emoji is it gonna be I want

  to change all of key emojis the Google

  one is like what were they doing like

  because the eyes are on the same side of

  the face as like the wings yes so it's

  like it's heads been like

  yanked around what do they even know how

  B works yeah the Google B emoji is an

  exorcist emoji right it's it's the B

  should be looking the other way but

  they've given it human eyes and it has

  rotated its head 180 degrees to be

  looking at you as you select it the

  Samsung one is like a cute image but

  it's not an emoji mm-hmm it's like a

  little drawing so I'm going with

  Microsoft I'm going with Twitter that's

  what I'm gonna have to go with here and

  although I generally agree with some of

  your sentiment about the Apple emoji so

  I'm gonna go for the Apple emoji really

  I like that B I'd like to watch it fly

  cuz it's kind of fat and like so it

  looks like it would struggle to fly I'm

  kind of rooting for him a bit like I

  feel sad I'm sorry I can see what you

  mean it almost looked like it's easy a

  bit dopey this is also a case where if

  it's going to be this detailed I feel

  like it should be fuzzy like it like

  bees actually are it's not enough detail

  it just looks like a balloon

  alright gray I'm throwing it out there I

  want to see Tim's design a bee emoji put

  them on the subreddit see if someone can

  come up with a bee emoji that is worthy

  of Grey's praise this episode of Hello

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  show GRA just to finish up we're going

  to quickly talk about a film which

  obviously means there'll be a little bit

  of spoiling us but we like to do that at

  the end of shows right so there'll be

  nothing else in the show except you and

  I talking about

  a film called the circle

  starring Emma Watson or Hermione Granger

  as my wife said every time she came on

  screen for the first 10 minutes of the

  film yeah I was gonna say what why was

  this such a question mark at the end of

  her name but that's but that's what it

  was if you're trying to think of what is

  their actual name that's the first -

  Hermione Granger right and also starring

  Tom Hanks and quite a few other good

  actors starring the guy from Star Wars

  whose name I don't know yep and I'll

  tell you what you would be happy I went

  into this as spoiler free as a human

  could almost be because we were thinking

  what film we're gonna watch tonight and

  more so know what about that new Netflix

  one that's got Tom Hanks and him only

  Granger in it and I said okay that can't

  be bad it's got Tom Hanks in oh and I

  had no idea whatsoever what the film was

  gonna be about no idea oh that's

  interesting because you must have

  forgotten that a while ago on hello

  internets we were talking about Tom

  Hanks in a passing way about how he

  always plays a good guy and there were a

  bunch of comments on that episode about

  how oh there's a movie coming up with

  Tom Hanks where he's going to play the

  villain and it's called the circle well

  we'll come to that then we'll come to

  that issue but no I didn't remember that

  that did pass me by Tom and even when

  Tom Hanks was playing a bad guy he's

  still a good guy like in that one where

  he's like a killer for the mob or

  whatever and he's still like a good


  Tom Hanks this is lovely anyway so I

  watch this film knowing nothing and at

  the end of it I thought I wonder what

  gray thinks of this film so I I like

  sent you a text saying gray you need to

  watch this film because I think we

  should talk about on hello Internet and

  you told me you don't he watched it yep

  yep I watched it a few weeks ago with my

  wife it was a simile she was looking

  around on the Netflix thinking who what

  what should have watched and thought oh

  here's the movie with Hermione Granger

  this looks great let's watch this and I

  was happy to go along this is a case

  where I had actually read the book it

  was originally a book and sometimes I

  read a book and like I have a very hard

  time getting into fiction I have a very

  hard time finding fiction books that I

  really like and there is a complaint

  that I would say I've had more

  frequently about fiction books that I

  have picked up which is fiction books

  that feel like they are begging to be

  turned into movies like it feels like

  less like I'm reading a book and more

  like I'm reading a sales

  proof-of-concept that a thing should be

  turned into a movie yeah and like I read

  the circle it was fine

  but that was one thing that I felt

  intentional or not felt very strongly in

  that one is like I think you really want

  this to be a movie yeah and you've

  you've actually just written a book that

  you can sell enough of to convince

  someone to turn into a movie I get yeah

  I haven't read the book obviously but I

  have read books like that and who say I

  understand so you watch the film but you

  had you obviously went in with

  considerably more knowledge then about

  at least what the film was gonna be

  about one could say I had a lot I had a

  head full of spoilers about what might

  happen in the movie unless they took a

  dramatically different turn which they

  mostly didn't so for people who are

  listening who have not seen the film

  that want to hear what we have to say

  about it do you want to kind of just

  like encapsulate what the films about in

  the nuttiest of nutshells it's a movie

  that is very much of its time right now

  the basic plot is that Hermione Granger

  gets hired by a company that is clearly

  a kind of Google stroke Facebook

  amalgamation and she is working at this

  company and the purpose of the company

  is to spread these these very small

  high-resolution video cameras all over

  the world now that's the new product

  yeah that's the new product yeah like

  you say there like a Facebook II social

  media app illegally yeah it's a bit

  unclear precisely what this company

  called the circle does right now but

  it's it's it's like oh there's a search

  engine social network II kind of company

  with lots of everything in one yeah

  exactly yeah and the driving force of

  the plot is that they are manufacturing

  these video cameras that if they're

  going to put all over the world that

  will eventually then be able to record

  all of the information that's occurring

  everywhere like that it that is the

  driving force of the plot okay and then

  yeah and Hermione Granger away she's bit

  of an underling at the company gets

  heavily drawn into it all by a series of

  coincidences and becomes a real linchpin

  to the whole marketing campaign and she

  also then becomes like the subject of a

  test run with these cameras where

  everyone in the world follows her life

  stuff like that so gray you know early

  on I like to get a thumbs up or down of


  which ways the which way is the thumb

  pointing this is one time I'm very happy

  to just say it at the beginning because

  I thought this movie was terrible gray

  uh I think you are over rating it by

  calling a terrible this film like almost

  made me angry taking time away from I

  don't know why I kept watching it I just

  sort of felt like oh I just guess I have

  to know how it ends it was very

  interesting having read the book which

  again I would describe as kind of a meh

  but like fine book but it was it was so

  interesting to have I've read that and

  thought like oh obviously this should be

  a movie like so many of the things that

  are happening in this book would be much

  better as a movie turns out not seconds

  out you really wanted this to be a movie

  and movies

  and it's funny that you say that because

  I would say that my wife and I have

  watched a very large number of movies

  that I would fairly described as as

  terrible but my wife was also in the

  kind of like angry that she had spent

  time in her life on this film mine too

  mine too it was the angriest I've seen

  her for years I'm not even joking

  she was like really mad as film for

  being so just for being bad not because

  it raised issues that upset her or

  anything just like that's just the

  badness of it like it was insulting that

  it came into our lounge room but yeah so

  this movie was shockingly awful and I

  think it was also interesting that it's

  it's movie with two pretty big stars

  that was just yeah terrible because I

  felt like you're like oh they've taken a

  book that was begging to be a movie they

  put Tom Hanks in it they have Hermione

  Granger as the lead

  they must be super confident about this

  this is going to be great and it was not

  did I read the script

  I mean did Tom Hanks write the script

  that's the thing I always wonder I would

  love to know do actors know that they're

  in a terrible movie this is a question I

  find myself asking all the time I

  suspect not because I think there has to

  be so much that happens after the

  production like a movie must depend so

  heavily on the Edit how things turn out

  in post-production sort of famously a

  lot of the documentaries about Star Wars

  say that this was the case that the

  first cut of the movie john-boy George

  Lucas was unwatchable and bad and it was

  totally saved in the editing and when

  they were filming as well I think some

  of them thought what is this nonsense

  what are we doing Ben Kenobi with has

  these letters that he wrote home to

  friends the house is terrible movie gods

  which is hilarious it's a real I can't

  believe I have to do this nonsense it's

  ridiculous so III do wonder and I just

  have to assume that you don't know as an

  actor that you're filming a thing and

  you just you hope it comes out well but

  you don't know for sure if they know

  when they watch it what do you think

  when they set for the first viewing they

  were like oh my god well that turn that

  bad what do you think maybe that so


  they kind of can still see it through

  rose-tinted glasses I think everybody

  knows bad movies I think Tom Hanks was

  probably a slinking down in his chair at

  the premiere going like oh god this this

  ended up being terrible yeah I think you

  would know don't you I don't know maybe

  you don't maybe when you're in something

  you like you to skip like starry-eyed

  and think oh wow look at me on the

  screen like I'm awesome

  but anyway if you had to just give a

  couple of key reasons as to why it was

  bad for the sake of having reviewed it

  what were your main thoughts about it

  what made it bad here is why I think

  your wife my wife you and me don't just

  think that the movie is bad but sort of

  our angry at it so I have this policy

  willing to watch movies in the house

  which is when you start watching the

  movie movies don't change whatever

  happens in the first five minutes of a

  movie that's probably what you're going

  to get for the next 90 minutes whatever

  the tone is like or if if the first few

  minutes are really bad like that's not

  going to turn around yeah some movies

  managed to have a very clever strong

  opening and then they kind of lose it

  but if a thing is bad like it you are

  you were going nowhere in this movie

  what makes a circle kind of frustrating

  is it feels like it it stayed at the

  level of being like just sort of mildly

  interesting enough that you wanted to

  keep watching it while failing to

  deliver on any of the satisfactions that

  good storytelling would actually do so

  it's like if the movie was worse we

  would have stopped watching it sooner

  and just been like well that's terrible

  and turn it off but it was just at that

  threshold of I'm still watching this but

  it is awful it is absolutely awful but I

  can't quite make it stop I think that's

  why the movie is angering yeah I mean no

  that's not my opinion but yeah why do

  you think it was so terrible the classic

  reason of bad storytelling is Kay like

  the motivation of the characters

  particularly the main character

  so utterly baffling mm-hmm like why she

  says the things she says and why she

  does the things she does she just

  changes and like one minute you think

  like she's like me and she can see that

  this is all wrong like she's doing these

  look she's got this look like this seems

  so wrong you know you think she's gonna

  be the Crusader and then suddenly she's

  like becomes the villain and like she's

  saying oh yeah we need you know we need

  to do more of this and this is really

  good like I completely do not understand

  her as a human being like she's so

  poorly written that I'm not blaming Emma

  Watson like you know she was just like

  and she just she read the lines but like

  the motivation of that character and all

  the other characters is so completely

  unrealistic and crazy and like the

  villains like the villains of the pace

  like who I guess is supposed to be Tom

  Hanks and his offsider who hardly ever

  speaks but I think we're supposed to

  hate as some kind of villain like we

  never know anything about them so like

  at the end when they supposedly get

  their comeuppance and get stitched up

  I'm like what did they do wrong yeah

  like in fact they were kind of nice yeah

  like when things started going bad for

  Emma Watson they're like you know take

  some time off you know do whatever you

  want they were in violence they were

  just like guys who wanted to be

  successful in business and thought their

  product was pretty good so I didn't

  dislike the villains if the hero I

  thought was just a complete lunatic who

  like I never knew what she was gonna do

  because I don't know what she was but

  also just the whole idea and the way

  like technology and the internet and

  social media was portrayed it was like

  it was written by some corporate

  executive that just learned about

  Facebook like it felt like it was

  written by like an old person who

  doesn't get it it kind of had this

  feeling of like it's about like five

  years too late mm-hmm and all like these

  like hmm how what thought-provoking

  ideas you're posing about surveillance

  and social networking and the way

  relationships work in the online world

  this is so fascinating these insights

  you're putting before me it felt like

  naive like have you got anything else to

  say you

  poorly executed in so many ways

  obviously had some money and I could

  kind of looked all right like you know

  the sets were good and the campus where

  it was filmed like the you know the the

  Apple Campus Tech place was filmed

  mm-hmm was okay you know

  it was InFocus see the movie poster now

  the circle all right pictures of the

  actors it was a focus the whole art of

  making a movie is is a thing that I find

  kind of fascinating I'm like why is a

  movie good why is the movie not good

  it's often harder to articulate what

  like why something works or it it

  doesn't this was a movie where I felt

  like okay your premise I am so ready to

  get on board your premise that a global

  surveillance society might not be an

  unmitigated good that if we have cameras

  that are recording everywhere in public

  all the time and everybody is also

  live-streaming their life all the time

  that maybe there are some downsides it's

  like I am so ready to get on board but

  then I'm watching this movie where the

  whole premise is this is a bad thing I

  feel like you're not selling me on it

  movie I feel unconvinced but also there

  was no understanding how anyone was

  motivated by anything like her her old

  friend her old friend who's like you

  know the guy that lives in the cabin in

  the woods why is he so anti Internet

  what happened to him that made him so

  against it to a point where he like you

  know drives off a bridge because he's

  scared of being filmed like I don't get

  why he was so scared of cameras like

  your reaction made no sense to me like I

  know it's not nice but you just

  overreacted and the other guy you know

  the the genius lurking in the shadows

  ooh was he always able just to hack into

  everyone's emails like all the bosses

  like he does at the end like and what

  what was he motivated by what happened

  to him that made him so want to go off

  grid and be so auntie his invention and

  how did he get access to all this stuff

  and when they announced this invention

  and they're saying we're gonna film

  everyone in the world 24/7 everything

  they do

  like that's so obviously like a

  pantomime villain idea but no one ever

  questioned it like it would have been a

  bit more realistic if someone said yeah

  I know you're gonna have some privacy

  concerns and we understand that but

  we've looked into it and we've got this

  and that like that would have made it

  realistic but it was so unrealistic that

  everyone had just like be all gooey odd

  and go oh what a great idea let's all

  clap like it was like a parody of like

  you know an apple launch event you

  needed some kind of realism some kind of

  questioning some kind of grittiness to

  it like everything was just such a

  cliche it was so cliched like I said

  before it was so lacking in any nuance

  that it made well didn't make it

  unwatchable because I watched the whole

  bloody thing but that makes it worse

  that was the fear you couldn't turn it

  off either I should have turned it off

  yeah you'll never get those hours of

  your life back but it was an

  impressively bad movie and they said

  things made no sense or Hermione Granger

  most of the time I feel like she's just

  like with the TripAdvisor stuff she's

  like being a chump who's doing all this

  work for the company and becoming like

  the spokesperson of their huge products

  you like to what benefits to her it's

  never clear at all why she would want to

  do this it's like it makes no sense at

  all she's she's sitting in some board

  meeting that's being live broadcast of

  the world and like all these ridiculous

  things are being said and she suddenly

  pipes up with let's make every single

  person in the world be a member of you

  know our Facebook circle like and make

  it compulsory right and like where the

  hell did that come from

  I didn't think even Tom Hanks was

  thinking of that look obviously he was

  that was supposed to be like the Senate

  but it was like she was so nothing at

  the end of the film do you understand

  the end of the film it makes no sense

  like she she brings down the supposed

  villains who as far as I could tell have

  done nothing wrong they've just been

  normal company owners right with that

  except they're trying to sell except it

  turns out they have secret email

  accounts so obviously that been up to

  maybe there are two villains that I

  don't know what they were doing and like

  you know maybe they were putting bad

  things in the water whatever but then

  she says to everyone come with me like

  you know Oh lead the way and I think I

  don't want her leading the company she's

  the one who's been coming up with all

  the terrible ideas and then at the end

  she's like being filmed and everything's

  being filmed and it's like okay so this

  is this confused premise of the ending

  Hermione Granger is live-streaming her

  entire life which is portrayed as a

  thing which is kind of ruining her

  entire lives ruining her family

  relationships is ruining her personal

  relationships but she loves it and it's

  great and it's fantastic yes

  she's like this is great she's rising up

  through the company as the spokesperson

  for how live-streaming should work and

  the comeuppance that she gets the

  villain Tom Hanks is by just sort of

  tricking him onstage to agree to


  his life as well but this is all just

  part of everyone will livestream all of

  their lives so that is the conclusion is

  like hahaha we got what we pulled one

  over on Tom thanks we're gonna make him

  livestream his life but as part of just

  making everybody live stream their light

  it's like what's the victory here I

  don't understand I don't understand how

  this is supposed to be like ha ha ha

  she's won like the music is telling me

  that we've won but I don't understand at

  all what's occurred here it's also again

  so lacking in nuance like if tomorrow

  Apple came out with this invention us

  and everyone you know you have to wear a

  camera so we can watch every single move

  of your life right it would be five

  seconds before someone said well I hope

  Tim Cook's gonna be the first person to

  wear one right that would take five

  seconds like that's such an obvious

  thing but here it was like but you never

  saw that one coming and you've got no no

  out Sephora or no like way to wiggle out

  of it the CEO of the company using their

  own products this never occurred to me

  like if he doesn't want to wear a lot

  surely he would have already thought

  about this a million times and had all

  these clever arts

  and yes I'd like to wear the camera have

  only Granger but for legal reasons and

  to do with the you know share price of

  the company or like you know I'm sure he

  could come up with a thousand reason yes

  not where and not just sit there like a

  stun mullet and thing yeah oh you've got

  me I'm pretty sure broadcasting some of

  those secret meetings would be like an

  SEC violation right like I think they

  were taking about two seconds to come up

  with legitimate reason why he couldn't

  do and if that guy who hacked all the

  emails has always had the ability to get

  look cuz she goes to him doesn't she

  that she goes to this mystery handsome

  man who says I need you to help me like

  she obviously just said to him that

  night before can you go and get all the

  bosses secret emails

  well if he's like really worried about

  this company anyway and he's always been

  able to do that ah

  so I'm sorry gray this is what bad

  movies do to you right they they bounce

  around in your head and and you feel

  like you need to vent them out it's like

  you gotta get rid of this terrible movie

  this one upset me in a different way to

  say the hobbit' I think the reason maybe

  is because it's such a a black mirror

  wannabe and black mirror is so good like

  nerd did all this stuff so well yeah

  it's like daytime TV black mirror I also

  personally feel like it's a horrific ly

  wasted premise and opportunity because I

  genuinely think there is some

  interesting discussion to be had about

  these kind of giant technological

  companies that run our lives in a in a

  very different way from what's occurred

  before do you not think that's been if a

  hack made like cliche discussion though

  I know I know what you're gonna say but

  it's like I'm very fortunate that I've

  had the experience of being on the

  campuses of a bunch of these companies

  and it's just deeply weird in a way that

  is hard to articulate there is something

  that is interesting there to be

  discovered and to be explored

  hmm I dunno what you're saying about it

  being a hackneyed conversation about

  like oh you know weyland-yutani is an

  evil company that's trying to destroy

  all of our lives but I do think that

  there is something different in the

  world now about really living in a place


  a very few companies have such

  tremendous power and and influence going

  back to just touch very briefly on the

  on the copyright thing but it is one of

  the reasons why like the goings on of

  how are people able to express

  themselves on a place like YouTube we're

  on Twitter it's so central to the

  conversation because those places are so

  incredibly important and silencing

  people on the on these platforms is like

  I think we're way past the point where

  you can just say like oh oh it's just a

  company and they can do whatever they

  want it's like these are companies with

  power that rivals governmental powers

  and so I really do think like there

  could have been a much better version of

  this movie which which might have had

  something to say on on these topics and

  the setting of like in real life like

  Facebook is such a such a surreal

  setting for a movie to take place and

  that there's a way to like show the

  viewer how this place is so different

  and I almost want to use the word like

  cult-like then normal company

  experiences mm-hmm but that's where the

  the circle just failed to deliver across

  all of these areas and so it just feels

  like oh you wasted a great premise and

  you wasted a great setting on a movie

  that makes no sense which is what makes

  it twice as infuriating as it would be

  if it was just a bad movie if it feels

  to me more like oh it's this could have

  been great but it was terrible do you

  disagree yeah okay I mean to sort of

  slightly exaggerate what you've just

  done it's almost like you've watched a

  really really bad detective movie and

  you're saying oh this could have been a

  good detective movie it was good yeah

  but it wasn't it was bad like yeah okay

  I agree that you could make a really

  good film and you're right there

  probably hasn't been a lot of films

  about that sort of things yeah oh yeah I

  will complete I really I think you can

  make a good movie about anything I find

  myself more frustrated when

  I feel like there's a particular setting

  that has has been kind of wasted so if

  you feel that there hasn't been or they

  haven't been enough or any really good

  movies really critiquing the culture of

  these big mega tech companies yeah I

  think this is this is a cinematic

  universe that has not been portrayed in

  a way that I feel like you know what

  this really nails

  what's so deeply weird about the

  Facebook campus I feel like that is that

  is a an area to be explored that has

  that has not been explored properly yeah

  fair enough fair enough

  so you're not gonna recommend that

  people watch the circle if they've made

  it to the end of the part you know

  whatever you do for the love of God go

  and check out some objectivity get some

  Keith watch some Keith what you cut the

  gray videos too if you want