The Accidental Tech Podcast

236: Irresponsible Use of Infinite Terabytes


  live from Wednesday night it's a TV I [TS]

  feel like if I had watched Saturday [TS]

  Night Live more frequently I would have [TS]

  rift on that whole announcer spiel you [TS]

  would have realized how badly he mangled [TS]

  the quote in reference live from [TS]

  Wednesday night from Wednesday night [TS]

  that's the plan [TS]

  live from New York they're definitely [TS]

  not from Wednesday yeah fair enough or a [TS]

  Saturday I have some pre-show [TS]

  announcements gentlemen first of all for [TS]

  the next few minutes I am a single [TS]

  parent so it is possible that I will [TS]

  need to depart if Declan wakes up as he [TS]

  has done recently although usually at [TS]

  2:00 or 3:00 in the morning explaining [TS]

  to me that he doesn't want to be asleep [TS]

  and that he wants to be awake hmm been [TS]

  there so if so if I disappear [TS]

  momentarily that would be why and before [TS]

  any parents in the room email me to say [TS]

  oh you need a sleep to wake alarm we [TS]

  have one you have a nice little alarm [TS]

  clock that will turn green when it's [TS]

  time for him to wake up and even though [TS]

  I think of him as a I was gonna say [TS]

  reasonably smart kid but you can't tell [TS]

  it in almost three so as as a not [TS]

  moronic kid even with that said he seems [TS]

  to forget in the middle of the night [TS]

  that the green light is not yet on and [TS]

  that he needs to go the fall asleep [TS]

  which by the way it's a great bedtime [TS]

  story it's so we have that same alarm I [TS]

  have two other parent friends who have [TS]

  that same alarm for their two different [TS]

  children all of the children regard that [TS]

  alarm as simply one input a suggestion [TS]

  yeah yeah it's advice the advice oh it's [TS]

  not green it's okay well I want to be up [TS]

  now and I want to go bother my bother [TS]

  mom dad so you know it's like it is [TS]

  simply one input of many and they will [TS]

  choose to ignore it whenever they feel [TS]

  like it isn't a matter of your kid being [TS]

  smart or not smart you'll get it [TS]

  perfectly smart enough your kid is as [TS]

  smart as all the other kids who've had [TS]

  these same alarms and said well it's not [TS]

  green but I don't care and it doesn't [TS]

  really matter so I'm gonna go in there [TS]

  anyway I think it worked on my son [TS]

  we have thought the same thing well we [TS]

  didn't even try it on my daughter [TS]

  because just personality-wise food would [TS]

  be useless in fact we had to remove all [TS]

  clocks with still no clocks no room we [TS]

  had to remove all clocks in my room [TS]

  I guess she would she would stare at [TS]

  them and be like you know whatever her [TS]

  bedtime was and like five minutes after [TS]

  I'm still awake and then so she'd be [TS]

  there like it's 134 and I'm still awake [TS]

  it's 247 and I'm still awake she were [TS]

  just stared and then obsess about the [TS]

  fact that she's still awake so we had to [TS]

  remove all clocks from room we haven't [TS]

  put them back yet that was years ago we [TS]

  haven't put them back yet but probably [TS]

  we could but then again maybe not [TS]

  yeah so he actually does do a pretty [TS]

  darn good job in the actual morning time [TS]

  when we really don't want him to like [TS]

  get fussy or anything like that before [TS]

  it's time for him to get up but in the [TS]

  middle of the night like Marco said it [TS]

  seems to be but a recommendation and [TS]

  nothing more and so that's been the [TS]

  festivities of late but that's actually [TS]

  not the big announcement the big [TS]

  announcement is we have moved and by we [TS]

  I mean just me and I mean just the [TS]

  office from one room in the house to [TS]

  another but talk about burying the lede [TS]

  yeah right if if if I sound like garbage [TS]

  don't blame Marco blame me I've put up [TS]

  some sound deadening material on the [TS]

  wall directly behind my 27-inch [TS]

  reflective glass but I may need more [TS]

  okay see god sake why did you move well [TS]

  because we need we need a place for a [TS]

  baby yeah okay congratulations it's [TS]

  about damn time [TS]

  yes Oh guess what Aaron's pregnant and [TS]

  that's super exciting and and based on [TS]

  your recent car purchase we can conclude [TS]

  she's having sex droplets is that it [TS]

  exactly right now there's only one baby [TS]

  in there as as we as has been confirmed [TS]

  numerous times but anyway suffice to say [TS]

  I've relocated rooms this room is bigger [TS]

  potentially more echoey [TS]

  maybe less eques who knows so Marco made [TS]

  me really really have some fun to do on [TS]

  this edit with what is the the toolchain [TS]

  that that has like the thing that that [TS]

  magically erases john's air-conditioner [TS]

  well there's a number of tools that can [TS]

  do that that I have used in the past [TS]

  audacity has the most basic one for free [TS]

  it's basically it's like a noise profile [TS]

  remover so you like select some of the [TS]

  recording that's just the noise you want [TS]

  to remove like when no one's talking you [TS]

  just hear the background noise and then [TS]

  you say alright profile this and then [TS]

  you select the whole recorder and say [TS]

  remove [TS]

  that noise from this whole recording so [TS]

  audition does it audacity does it the [TS]

  one I've been using most recently is the [TS]

  iZotope rx that says has a number of [TS]

  other tools as well and that thing is [TS]

  amazing it is it is not cheap but if you [TS]

  process audio I need to remove annoying [TS]

  background noise or echo or headphone [TS]

  bleed or hum or so many other things I [TS]

  have not found anything better than [TS]

  iZotope Rx it is really something else [TS]

  well congratulations on the reason you [TS]

  moved and don't worry about the audio [TS]

  will figure it out yeah so yeah thanks I [TS]

  forgot that we had we had talked about [TS]

  this in the post show that I think it [TS]

  was like the post post post post show [TS]

  last week and it didn't even cross my [TS]

  mind that that probably didn't make the [TS]

  released recording so yeah I guess what [TS]

  Aaron's pregnant and so far everything [TS]

  everywhere everything and everyone seems [TS]

  healthy and we're super excited about it [TS]

  and we'll put a link in the show notes [TS]

  with a little bit of background [TS]

  information about that in an adorable [TS]

  picture of Aaron and Declan so for the [TS]

  people who are just gonna listen to the [TS]

  podcast [TS]

  the gender is sealed in an envelope in [TS]

  case you don't don't want to know no we [TS]

  haven't [TS]

  yes well no but when we were told to [TS]

  turn around so the so the technician can [TS]

  figure out what the gender was that took [TS]

  suspiciously little time so we'll see [TS]

  that that indicates to me that it was a [TS]

  suspiciously short amount of time to to [TS]

  prove a negative but you never know so [TS]

  we'll see what happens [TS]

  my my kind of Farmers Almanac tale or my [TS]

  experience which is a hundred and fifty [TS]

  percent anecdotal and I recognize that [TS]

  is that if if the woman tends to carry [TS]

  all of the baby like in the tummy area [TS]

  and doesn't seem to get any bigger [TS]

  anywhere else that seems to generally [TS]

  speaking be a boy this is completely [TS]

  anti-scientific no science in any way no [TS]

  no there's no science involved this is [TS]

  all this is ball is ball every bite [TS]

  I was like when the child was conceived [TS]

  and definitely a boy is that do you know [TS]

  what that's relate no not really [TS]

  I tell you uh Kate's story so if she we [TS]

  went in for one I guess was the the [TS]

  first ultra time where you gonna [TS]

  actually find out and I said do you want [TS]

  to know and we said yes and I said it's [TS]

  a girl I'm like great cuz we're gonna [TS]

  have a boy snow I've wanted you so great [TS]

  okay then but that how actually you [TS]

  responded great like we were in for like [TS]

  another ultrasound I guess later in the [TS]

  pregnancy whatever you like dude like [TS]

  the routine second one over I don't know [TS]

  but anyway later we're in is already [TS]

  we'd like oh you know picking out girls [TS]

  things and thinking of girls names and [TS]

  stuff like that we going front later and [TS]

  they're like oh looks like it's a boy [TS]

  and like they told us it was a girl last [TS]

  time you like that boy and then the [TS]

  person looks closer and like maybe right [TS]

  maybe there was just a thumb and so and [TS]

  they're like all right anyway [TS]

  everything's fine you're doing like and [TS]

  so that you know let me know that it's [TS]

  not it's not an exact science first of [TS]

  all anyway she came out she was totally [TS]

  girl it was fine but not just a little [TS]

  bit yeah there's no confusion but [TS]

  ultrasounds it's a confusing picture and [TS]

  yeah it takes some skill and experience [TS]

  as a technician to interpret that as [TS]

  anything and you know a thumb or a toe [TS]

  ends up in the wrong position with the [TS]

  baby ultimate setup you people get [TS]

  confused but both people on their [TS]

  initial proclamation sounded very very [TS]

  sure and the only reason the second [TS]

  person kind of hemmed in hard after was [TS]

  because we said wait a second we've had [TS]

  like a month and a half of thinking this [TS]

  is gonna be a girl and now you tell me [TS]

  boy yeah so you'll find out or you'll [TS]

  have in my situation it's like well [TS]

  sometimes the baby is resting in sexual [TS]

  way in sexual position and you see [TS]

  something that makes it very very clear [TS]

  and it couldn't really be anything else [TS]

  and situations like well aren't really [TS]

  supposed to tell you yet but I'm like [TS]

  but yeah what's that and they're like [TS]

  well you know so yeah so we asked the [TS]

  technician you know to put it in an [TS]

  envelope seal it in and we are not the [TS]

  kind of people that want to do like a [TS]

  gender reveal party I understand it's [TS]

  very that's [TS]

  be popular and fun and whatever but it's [TS]

  not really for us we just wanted to be [TS]

  able to change our minds in the future [TS]

  so if we if we so desire and so we have [TS]

  a sealed envelope with the gender in it [TS]

  and both of us are very very type a very [TS]

  anal retentive so I would say if you [TS]

  wanted to make a bet that it's likely [TS]

  that we will probably end up opening it [TS]

  I'm waiting for somebody to like start [TS]

  an ATP pool to see what day it is we [TS]

  open it but sitting here now the hope is [TS]

  we will hold out until the baby is born [TS]

  and we'll see what happens [TS]

  in any case say yeah I didn't mean to [TS]

  make that the entire pre-show but yeah [TS]

  that's the thing so let's start with [TS]

  some follow-up and as it turns out the [TS]

  follow-up is the Marco show today so [TS]

  what yeah you know if you if you so as I [TS]

  as I see or hear Marco saying oh I [TS]

  should probably open the document by the [TS]

  magic of Google Docs I see a new [TS]

  personal open up the document it turns [TS]

  out it's Marco Arment [TS]

  so uh so yes so it turns out that iTunes [TS]

  U collections are moving to Apple [TS]

  podcast and that got you on I don't want [TS]

  to call it a rant but kind of a because [TS]

  that implies negativity but kind of a [TS]

  you want you got on your soapbox and [TS]

  talked about your thoughts for the [TS]

  future of iTunes so can you kind of talk [TS]

  us through that yeah basically there was [TS]

  this little news article last week that [TS]

  said that iTunes U which is like the [TS]

  kind of educational course collection [TS]

  things and iTunes that have been around [TS]

  for quite a long time [TS]

  remember when was launched it was it's [TS]

  not recently right yeah I don't think so [TS]

  yeah so anyway so iTunes U content which [TS]

  is actually wonderful and and quite [TS]

  extensive that has that's been announced [TS]

  that that's moving into Apple podcasts [TS]

  so the no longer be a separate section [TS]

  that it's always been like a section in [TS]

  iTunes and now that is moving to Apple [TS]

  podcasts and I interpret this as you [TS]

  know if it was just this by itself [TS]

  that's kind of a weird thing but when [TS]

  you when you combine it with things like [TS]

  the stopping selling all iPods that [TS]

  aren't iOS based and and just some other [TS]

  little moves you've seen here and there [TS]

  and just timing in general but [TS]

  I think this is just one of many signs [TS]

  that they are preparing for the [TS]

  abandonment or total deletion of iTunes [TS]

  probably abandonment if it's re gonna [TS]

  sit around forever as like you know in [TS]

  the utilities folder for the very few [TS]

  you know Knicks used cases that people [TS]

  need for anymore but I think iTunes is [TS]

  finally being relegated to the dustbin [TS]

  of history as it should have been a very [TS]

  long time ago and they are I bet in the [TS]

  next version of Mac OS not you know not [TS]

  the one that's coming out like in a [TS]

  month but the one is coming out probably [TS]

  next year I bet we're gonna see finally [TS]

  I split up of iTunes into brand new apps [TS]

  called things like music TV podcasts [TS]

  things like that do you remember the [TS]

  screenshots for some of the dialog boxes [TS]

  saying you know open document in movies [TS]

  or something like that do you remember [TS]

  that oh this just went through not long [TS]

  ago didn't it yeah someone someone had [TS]

  found some dialog in some version of Mac [TS]

  OS some beta version of Mac OS that in [TS]

  response to trying to open a video [TS]

  instead of it opening an iTunes or [TS]

  QuickTime Player it said do you want to [TS]

  open this in movies that's right yeah [TS]

  yeah and that makes me think if that's [TS]

  real that's why I wish I could still [TS]

  find out but I have lost track of it is [TS]

  this the case where the replacements for [TS]

  iTunes we're kind of almost ready but [TS]

  just didn't quite make the cut or is [TS]

  this the case where they're not gonna be [TS]

  ready for a long time but someone got [TS]

  ahead of the game and did the easy part [TS]

  which is updating a dialog box or [TS]

  something like I'm always trying to [TS]

  gauge is how close are we to the death [TS]

  of iTunes it's one of those things that [TS]

  probably is not people don't care enough [TS]

  about it for it to leak like iPhone [TS]

  parts so we'll probably just kind of [TS]

  find out either when they accidentally [TS]

  post a bit if they're not supposed to or [TS]

  when someone announces it on stage I [TS]

  mean at this point I kind of wonder how [TS]

  many people will even care like based on [TS]

  how many people still use iTunes I mean [TS]

  it'll probably be a big during the tech [TS]

  press just because tech press is full of [TS]

  old people who remember iTunes right but [TS]

  for everyone else is it going to be a [TS]

  significant moment [TS]

  and what I'm what I'm worried about is [TS]

  all the boringly named apps music [TS]

  whatever think this would be like music [TS]

  movies what else is gonna be TV probably [TS]

  podcasts I would bet yeah maybe [TS]

  anyway if those apps have to travel the [TS]

  same road as the new Photos app did I'll [TS]

  be kind of sad because photos just start [TS]

  off very anemic and weird and janky and [TS]

  it's a little bit better now and it's [TS]

  getting a little bit better still in [TS]

  high sierra but it was like a big [TS]

  regression for my father in terms of [TS]

  functionality and just polish and [TS]

  everything like it was a super [TS]

  simplified it basically looked like a UI [TS]

  kid application that was somehow ported [TS]

  to the Mac and everything was all [TS]

  stripped down and removed and it wasn't [TS]

  like tiny and quick and lightning fast [TS]

  with that stripping down I was like [TS]

  stripped down but also still sluggish [TS]

  and annoying and I don't want that like [TS]

  iTunes you know we don't love iTunes but [TS]

  the functionality that it has for like [TS]

  finding a song and playing it more or [TS]

  less works and I can just imagine that [TS]

  exact same function of typing in [TS]

  something in the search box and having a [TS]

  narrow this down and having me like [TS]

  double-click on a thing to hear it [TS]

  adding the photos style lag to every one [TS]

  of those operations just a few extra [TS]

  milliseconds to make you feel better and [TS]

  remove as many controls as possible it [TS]

  kind of already removed lock controls [TS]

  but remove all the controls that you're [TS]

  used to so it's just like a big empty [TS]

  blank window where everything is a [TS]

  little bit slower than you want it to be [TS]

  with less functionality than it had [TS]

  before I'm hoping that's not the case [TS]

  I'm hoping these new slim down [TS]

  applications give us the benefits that [TS]

  we want from them being slimmed down not [TS]

  just the lack of confusion about like [TS]

  this is just an app for playing music [TS]

  and you don't worry about anything else [TS]

  but that the apps themselves are nicer [TS]

  and not they don't just look like hey we [TS]

  took the music app from iOS and we put a [TS]

  Mac title bar on top of it here you go [TS]

  because that will make me sad I think [TS]

  the reason I'm kind of looking forward [TS]

  to this happening assuming this that [TS]

  this is on the table and I think it [TS]

  probably is I mean it does seem like [TS]

  this is the direction they're moving but [TS]

  one of the reasons why I'm interested in [TS]

  this is just on a basic level [TS]

  I just appreciate seeing significant [TS]

  effort into the Mac platform you know [TS]

  because it's so it's so easy to look at [TS]

  the Apple has operated over the last few [TS]

  years and conclude that the Mac is [TS]

  really being neglected and there they've [TS]

  been a few things in in the very recent [TS]

  past like basically in the last year [TS]

  they've done a few things that that [TS]

  suggest that no the Mac isn't being [TS]

  neglected at least anymore maybe it was [TS]

  for a little bit but now you know now it [TS]

  isn't being a little intense for some [TS]

  good stuff that's happening so any sign [TS]

  of significant investment into the Mac [TS]

  platform which breaking up iTunes and [TS]

  rewriting all these things as presumably [TS]

  new apps that's a big undertaking you [TS]

  know it's it's not like a big [TS]

  undertaking at the low level OS level [TS]

  but it is a big undertaking for the app [TS]

  for you know like the basically the [TS]

  applications teams you know and and the [TS]

  people responsible for all these media [TS]

  apps and their backends any meals like [TS]

  that that's a big undertaking and so to [TS]

  have that to take that on [TS]

  when technically you didn't have to like [TS]

  they could just keep iTunes going even [TS]

  though it's terrible and they could they [TS]

  could you say well it's not really worth [TS]

  ever facing iTunes you know and that [TS]

  would be disappointed that you know that [TS]

  would show that they don't really care [TS]

  but the Mac anymore but the fact that [TS]

  they seem like they're probably going in [TS]

  this direction if they do this that's a [TS]

  very good sign for the Mac platform in [TS]

  general and then secondarily in regard [TS]

  to the actual apps the answer will [TS]

  really be it depends I mean a lot of the [TS]

  roles of some of these apps like podcast [TS]

  there has never been a podcast app on [TS]

  the Mac from Apple you know the iTunes [TS]

  can play podcasts but that's you know [TS]

  it's pretty basic and it's really not [TS]

  very well designed for it [TS]

  similarly iTunes can also play movies [TS]

  and TV shows it pretty much sucks like [TS]

  I've done that it's not very pleasant to [TS]

  play these things in iTunes again it [TS]

  works you can do it but it's not very [TS]

  good and then the music part of iTunes [TS]

  is this weird [TS]

  whatever the multi-headed thing is at [TS]

  the Hydra mm-hmm okay [TS]

  so it's like this weird thanks reference [TS]

  check it's like as weird Hydra of like [TS]

  you have like this this entire local [TS]

  management thing on with iTunes Match [TS]

  that matches your local music to the [TS]

  cloud and everything and then you also [TS]

  have this Apple music thing which is [TS]

  really totally separate and work totally [TS]

  separate but it tries to integrate at [TS]

  the same interface and the combination [TS]

  of Apple music in [TS]

  to iTunes with your local music [TS]

  librarian because that is a disaster in [TS]

  the UI it's so clunky and confusing and [TS]

  opens people up to weird bugs and [TS]

  accidental data loss and things it's [TS]

  it's really not great at all so the idea [TS]

  of making a whole new music app I think [TS]

  raises the significant question of [TS]

  whether it would be Apple music only and [TS]

  I think I would prefer if it was because [TS]

  to me if they could remove Apple music [TS]

  from iTunes and just let iTunes be the [TS]

  legacy app that does your local music [TS]

  library and has nothing to do that with [TS]

  music then the Apple music app could [TS]

  finally have its own like coherent [TS]

  design that would be way less confusing [TS]

  way more lightweight would solve you [TS]

  know people's issues with like storage [TS]

  and cloud matching and everything by [TS]

  basically just not supporting it that [TS]

  stuff that would be so much better so I [TS]

  hope that's the direction they're going [TS]

  I don't know if it will be I will give [TS]

  it maybe 50/50 odds if they do this but [TS]

  are you saying that you wouldn't be able [TS]

  to have a local music collection the [TS]

  music I would iTunes stay around forever [TS]

  I don't know there are lots of ancient [TS]

  os10 at or sorry Mac OS apps that do [TS]

  basically stay around forever you know [TS]

  many of them are better than the [TS]

  utilities folder but you know they're [TS]

  all still there so you know if you [TS]

  wanted iTunes to be your look immunity [TS]

  player fine I can keep your local music [TS]

  player also it isn't the only one that [TS]

  exists in the world there are other [TS]

  local music players for Mac OS and if [TS]

  Apple went in this direction with the [TS]

  official music app and also iTunes [TS]

  basically died eventually over time or [TS]

  immediately then there be an immediate [TS]

  large market for other people to make [TS]

  these apps so I wouldn't worry too much [TS]

  about that even like I am a person who [TS]

  uses iTunes almost entirely for local [TS]

  music and that's not going to change [TS]

  anytime soon but I recognize also that [TS]

  is like a dying breed and if Apple music [TS]

  is able to be its own app and basically [TS]

  kick it out of iTunes that's way better [TS]

  for both Apple music and local music [TS]

  libraries I don't like that idea I want [TS]

  the I think just an app just dedicated [TS]

  to music like the solution I think is [TS]

  not to so it's confusing as you have [TS]

  iTunes Match and local files both cloud [TS]

  files and it's all confusing in iTunes [TS]

  the solution is not to not let people do [TS]

  local it's [TS]

  make a dedicated music app that you know [TS]

  makes it not confusing like so is it's [TS]

  better about all the things that we [TS]

  complain about items about about not [TS]

  respecting your files on disk about [TS]

  improperly matching them about not [TS]

  respecting your metadata like it has to [TS]

  it has to serve the needs of the entire [TS]

  range of music you could have you could [TS]

  have music that you from your own CDs or [TS]

  illegally downloaded or whatever that [TS]

  you've carefully tagged and organized [TS]

  over many many years you could [TS]

  subscription to Apple music all these [TS]

  things that could be that and it has to [TS]

  it has to respect them and as to you [TS]

  know it has to treat them not treat them [TS]

  cavalierly and do a good job backing [TS]

  things up and be reliable and all the [TS]

  things you get a chance to do when you [TS]

  start from scratch with a new [TS]

  application rather than saying oh this [TS]

  is just gonna be an apple ease [TS]

  experiment player and we'll let you know [TS]

  a third party opportunity to do musical [TS]

  because I don't think there's enough of [TS]

  a market for there to be you know [TS]

  because I just don't think that many [TS]

  people have local music collections that [TS]

  they care that much about for there to [TS]

  be a robust third party music player [TS]

  especially if that third party music [TS]

  player doesn't support streaming [TS]

  services who's gonna make that [TS]

  application and say we're just gonna [TS]

  sell to the diminishing proportion of [TS]

  the user base who have local music that [TS]

  they care about like that's not a [TS]

  winning even without iTunes in the [TS]

  picture at all like that's not a winning [TS]

  formula so I really hope they don't do [TS]

  that I hope I hope they have a music app [TS]

  that does everything that needs to do [TS]

  you know I think you underestimate how [TS]

  much both Marco and Steven Hackett would [TS]

  pay for this sort of managers standalone [TS]

  music app but be that as it may it's [TS]

  funny because I feel like my heart [TS]

  agrees with Marco and left [TS]

  if I were calling the shots I would want [TS]

  there to be a two different apps like [TS]

  let iTunes stick around forever but slim [TS]

  it down to be just managing your local [TS]

  music library and or iTunes Match and [TS]

  and you know obviously there's some [TS]

  nuances there but it's just simple for [TS]

  the purposes of simplicity let's call it [TS]

  that and then have like Marco said a [TS]

  brand new Apple music app that's just [TS]

  for Apple music and and I think I would [TS]

  like that a lot and that's part of the [TS]

  reason why I've stuck with Spotify [TS]

  even after a from Apple music became a [TS]

  thing part of it was because I didn't [TS]

  care for much of Apple music in general [TS]

  but I also actually liked having that [TS]

  separation and continued to like having [TS]

  that separation of the music that is [TS]

  legitimately mine and the music that I'm [TS]

  just renting basically and having Apple [TS]

  music versus iTunes would satisfy that [TS]

  but my brain even though my heart agrees [TS]

  with Marco my brain agrees the John and [TS]

  I think that the rightest answer to the [TS]

  solution is probably just making iTunes [TS]

  or whatever replaces it not crappy and [TS]

  have it more eloquently handle remote [TS]

  music versus local music etc and the [TS]

  other thing I'm really wary of is even [TS]

  though I really would love to see iTunes [TS]

  either die or get revamped such that [TS]

  it's not all things to all people I [TS]

  really worry in John you were saying [TS]

  this earlier I really worry that we're [TS]

  in one of those photos scenarios when [TS]

  when all of us was calling for you know [TS]

  oh let's replace photos photos is so old [TS]

  nobody's paying attention to it let's [TS]

  let's let's fix it and then we got the [TS]

  fixed and we were all like oh no this is [TS]

  not what we wanted and always Ari yes [TS]

  yes yes thank you replace iPhoto and and [TS]

  obviously it's gotten a lot better but [TS]

  it it still was not really what we [TS]

  wanted look at what was it Final Cut X [TS]

  is that right something like that how [TS]

  that one I mean I mean I mean I totally [TS]

  did that on purpose anyway I'm so sorry [TS]

  to everyone but the point is when Final [TS]

  Cut Pro got redone and everyone you know [TS]

  was really perturbed about the things [TS]

  that were driving on saying unfairly but [TS]

  was perturbed about the things that were [TS]

  dropped the features that were dropped I [TS]

  I fear that we're in a similar situation [TS]

  with iTunes and I don't see any way how [TS]

  we couldn't be given that iTunes is all [TS]

  things to all people and there's so much [TS]

  code there and it's what was wasn't a [TS]

  Joel on software a Joel Spolsky that [TS]

  that wrote a really good post years and [TS]

  years and years ago about how you should [TS]

  never rewrite anything discussed [TS]

  on the show and I said it wasn't that [TS]

  good you know like many things that is a [TS]

  great rule it's it's a great input when [TS]

  you're making a decision but like all [TS]

  rules like you have to decide when you [TS]

  know how to break them or not and this [TS]

  and you know if you say like between [TS]

  this release of our products and [TS]

  actually is for a product we should [TS]

  rewrite the whole thing from scratch [TS]

  like well is the product still like [TS]

  needing to do the same things like what [TS]

  are you really getting out of that [TS]

  whereas with this it's like this is the [TS]

  needs of these products have changed so [TS]

  much over time that keeping them around [TS]

  is actually more of a liability in a lot [TS]

  of ways and not only from the code but [TS]

  even from the design of having this all [TS]

  be one app you're not like we're not [TS]

  suggesting that you rewrite iTunes from [TS]

  scratch we are suggesting that you break [TS]

  up this app into like five different [TS]

  other apps each of which can be way [TS]

  better at solving the problem that it's [TS]

  meant to solve than this one app that [TS]

  tries to solve all five of these things [TS]

  badly so here's my medic concern about [TS]

  this whole thing and this is always I [TS]

  was trying to think of this while you [TS]

  guys were talking and I can't come up [TS]

  with something maybe you can my question [TS]

  is does Apple still know how to make [TS]

  really great mac apps I'm trying to [TS]

  think of the last really great mac app [TS]

  that Apple made maybe is it is it maybe [TS]

  Final Cut Pro 10 and iMovie like that [TS]

  when they revamp those because those are [TS]

  pretty good right but I'm not sure like [TS]

  it used to be you know Apple makes the [TS]

  best Mac absent if you're a third-party [TS]

  developer try to make your apps as good [TS]

  as them and it slowly shifted to be like [TS]

  if you want to see the exemplars of [TS]

  great Mac applications you have to look [TS]

  at third parties because all the first [TS]

  party stuff is either not half-butted [TS]

  and Marcos parlance but like it's slight [TS]

  like for example when they redid [TS]

  contacts and notes on the Mac I mean you [TS]

  know they're alright they're not bad but [TS]

  they're pretty slight right no one would [TS]

  say this is a tour de force Mac [TS]

  application of the Mac version of notes [TS]

  like it's alright you know it's there [TS]

  and now all the great Mac apps it's like [TS]

  if you want to see an amazing Mac [TS]

  application like you know look at look [TS]

  at panics you know transmit right or [TS]

  something from Omni right where it's [TS]

  like a a full-featured beautifully [TS]

  designed [TS]

  and well thought-out stable reliable you [TS]

  know like all the things that you want [TS]

  from a great Mac application the kind of [TS]

  applications are BBEdit for that matter [TS]

  kind of applications to make people love [TS]

  them and be dedicated to them known as [TS]

  no one is dedicated to the Mac version [TS]

  of notes right I mean the iOS version of [TS]

  notes as you know gotten way better and [TS]

  they're adding features left and right [TS]

  there but I'm trying to think of what's [TS]

  the last great man you're supposed to [TS]

  fari [TS]

  sorry it's pretty darn good too but [TS]

  that's that's oh like the last great new [TS]

  Mac App Apple's head in the past few [TS]

  years it seems like every time they make [TS]

  a new Mac application it's alright yeah [TS]

  like I feel like photos is like the best [TS]

  example photos is the the app that [TS]

  should have been a great demonstration [TS]

  of what the Mac can do and it hasn't [TS]

  been at all and I would even brought in [TS]

  your question of Ken Apple still make [TS]

  great mac apps I would remove the word [TS]

  Mac from that and say can Apple still [TS]

  great still make great apps Apple is [TS]

  remarkably good these days at being a [TS]

  platform company their OS is amazing [TS]

  their ap eyes are amazing that keep [TS]

  adding new cool API is like a Ark it [TS]

  like just to add to their other massive [TS]

  pile of incredibly sophisticated api's [TS]

  Apple is really good at the platform's [TS]

  the frameworks the OS but I I really [TS]

  have not gotten the sense from Apple [TS]

  that they really know how to make great [TS]

  apps anymore and and to their credit [TS]

  they haven't made very many new apps [TS]

  recently like maybe they maybe they [TS]

  realize this too or maybe they've [TS]

  decided not to do that much anymore [TS]

  they've been making good apps I feel [TS]

  like especially on iOS I think they're [TS]

  making good iOS apps and a lot of it I [TS]

  think a lot of the iOS ones are [TS]

  exemplars you could say hey you want to [TS]

  you want to make a good eye o s app look [TS]

  at Apple's applications and that's kind [TS]

  of like the baseline try to match that [TS]

  right but none of them I mean it may I [TS]

  don't know in iOS but like on the Mac [TS]

  anyway I don't feel like any of them are [TS]

  great and it kind of in the way that [TS]

  iTunes was great in the beginning like [TS]

  you know at one iTunes sort of got got [TS]

  the ball rolling and it was like you [TS]

  could search for music so quickly and [TS]

  the interface was so straightforward and [TS]

  intuitive than anyone could figure out [TS]

  how to do it with a three pane browser [TS]

  and you know and then integrating the [TS]

  store that all seemed to work like [TS]

  before iTunes became the [TS]

  jack-of-all-trades [TS]

  I think it was a pretty great [TS]

  application too even though it was just [TS]

  sound jam or whatever reskin to begin [TS]

  with right yeah something like that I'm [TS]

  sure there is still the talent in the [TS]

  company to make great applications like [TS]

  what we're talking about if they [TS]

  prioritize them I think they just [TS]

  haven't prioritized them really like [TS]

  they've been doing so much else they've [TS]

  been launching new platforms and making [TS]

  new services and you know making the OS [TS]

  is better and everything they've been [TS]

  doing so much else that it just seems [TS]

  like they don't really put a lot behind [TS]

  their first party apps anymore and that [TS]

  shows in some big you know end of life [TS]

  things like aperture and also just the [TS]

  kind of you know languishing nature of a [TS]

  lot of their other apps along with apps [TS]

  that are revamped into new versions that [TS]

  aren't necessarily to do the old ones [TS]

  like the Photos app you know in that [TS]

  place iPhoto and aperture you know like [TS]

  the I think it is very clear like I [TS]

  would say you know I don't want to put [TS]

  this entirely on Johnny I've because I [TS]

  do that a lot but in the the big shuffle [TS]

  up when Forrestal was out and Ives [TS]

  Department became head of software [TS]

  design as well as hardware design I [TS]

  would say since that happened appala [TS]

  seem to be in a period of flux with [TS]

  their application design skills that [TS]

  have not been good and even going into [TS]

  iOS 11 like we still don't know what the [TS]

  new phone and this potential notch is [TS]

  gonna look like but if that knotch [TS]

  you know if basically we're looking at [TS]

  the iOS 11 design with these like giant [TS]

  title bars with the big white you know [TS]

  bold text titles and basically making [TS]

  everything like Apple music which seems [TS]

  like a terrible idea because if you [TS]

  would have said after last year after I [TS]

  was 10 we're gonna make all the apps in [TS]

  the system look like Apple music people [TS]

  thought you were joking but now you know [TS]

  now that's the style that might make [TS]

  sense in some big grand vision here that [TS]

  we have yet to see the you know the [TS]

  final play of wouldn't when the new [TS]

  phone comes out it's also possible the [TS]

  apples just going through like this kind [TS]

  of like design puberty period where like [TS]

  they're they're in between you know two [TS]

  different eras or ages or they're trying [TS]

  to find their footing or whatever the [TS]

  case may be it seems like Apple is has [TS]

  been all over the map with software [TS]

  design in the last few years and they [TS]

  have not yet found the right place to be [TS]

  yet yeah [TS]

  I feel like Final Cut Pro 10 and the new [TS]

  iMovie that that was before it those [TS]

  were actually I think the only Mac [TS]

  applications that could rarely be called [TS]

  great they were after the you know the [TS]

  skeuomorphic age like a garage band and [TS]

  stuff like that with the wood paneling [TS]

  like that was you know high movie and [TS]

  the original digital hub like there's a [TS]

  lot of great applications there but [TS]

  those were all definitely in the forest [TS]

  all skeuomorphic whatever or even though [TS]

  he you know whatever that that her right [TS]

  and then where we are now is the place [TS]

  where you know photos and the revised [TS]

  you know contacts and notes an even [TS]

  calendar and self on the Mac they're [TS]

  kind of you know they're right they're [TS]

  very simple they're slight bit more of [TS]

  the Johnny hive thing and I feel like in [TS]

  between there was the iMovie design [TS]

  which was not super skeuomorphic but was [TS]

  also not like oh let's remove every [TS]

  single control from the interface and [TS]

  make just giant expanses of white white [TS]

  or in this case black so I think maybe [TS]

  that is and that's the last time I can [TS]

  recall seeing one of those maybe there's [TS]

  other applications that I don't use them [TS]

  people keep bringing up like the iWork [TS]

  Sweeting everything but those aren't [TS]

  those are new applications like they've [TS]

  evolved and I could say those have the [TS]

  same kind of problem with the syncing up [TS]

  with the uikit and all right now do you [TS]

  like it syncing up with iOS features and [TS]

  losing stuff and coming back up they've [TS]

  they've had their our own problems [TS]

  during the way during the their their [TS]

  development I don't think those are [TS]

  great applications yeah and even if they [TS]

  were you'd have to date them back to [TS]

  when they were introduced so maybe it's [TS]

  just iMovie and Final Cut Pro 10 and [TS]

  those were controversial as well we are [TS]

  sponsored this week by hover find a [TS]

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  I mean my first email address was at [TS]

  Juno comm and my first web site was a [TS]

  big long path named after Geocities comm [TS]

  both of those seemed massive and [TS]

  invincible at the time but things change [TS]

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  customer support is top-notch I manage [TS]

  the vast majority of my domains at hover [TS]

  and it's a breeze because what you want [TS]

  is a domain registrar to be really easy [TS]

  to use for like the hour that you set it [TS]

  up and then to never bother you or need [TS]

  attention from you again and that's what [TS]

  hover does for me it's the best [TS]

  compliment can pay them it gets out of [TS]

  the way it just works it's there right [TS]

  when I need it if I need to buy another [TS]

  domain name or if we need to change a [TS]

  DNS record or something and the rest of [TS]

  the time I can just get on with my [TS]

  online life and not worry about my [TS]

  domain names that I know hover has it [TS]

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  visit hover calm slash ATP to learn more [TS]

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  hover find a domain name for your [TS]

  passion we have what is possibly my [TS]

  favorite line item that has ever [TS]

  appeared in follow up ever and I will [TS]

  read it verbatim for the listeners the [TS]

  topic that we are apparently about to [TS]

  discuss a topic it's a foul of item [TS]

  whatever [TS]

  good grief the follow-up item copyright [TS]

  2011 Johnson he said that we are about [TS]

  to discuss is as follows quote advice [TS]

  for Markos sensitive Toshi end quote [TS]

  would one of us I'm assuming Jon like to [TS]

  tell us what his advice would be for [TS]

  Marco's since my advice its listeners [TS]

  advice last week and people had advice [TS]

  for what he could do to make his bump [TS]

  feel better one piece of advice was to [TS]

  buy shorts with a pad in the butt [TS]

  especially made for people who ride [TS]

  bikes I go for made for mountain bikers [TS]

  so probably that's the thing that you [TS]

  can [TS]

  get and someone suggested that but the [TS]

  other suggestion that I think it is even [TS]

  better is bicycle riders saying don't [TS]

  put all your weight on your butt when [TS]

  you're riding your bike put some of your [TS]

  weight on the pedals and some of your [TS]

  weight and the handlebars and some of [TS]

  the weight on your butt and then you [TS]

  won't have your entire weight on the [TS]

  very hard seat and if you do that it [TS]

  will make any seat feel more comfortable [TS]

  for you [TS]

  I would say the latter option of [TS]

  changing my biking technique to put less [TS]

  weight on my butt that is a good idea if [TS]

  I was a professional bike list but I'm [TS]

  not have to be a professional bike guest [TS]

  in your words to do that you can you can [TS]

  you can change the way you bike and not [TS]

  be paid to be a bicycle rider you know [TS]

  that's something I will slowly work [TS]

  towards but that's like you know a [TS]

  gradual technique thing also like a lot [TS]

  of the riding I'm doing around here is [TS]

  very slowly because I'm riding with my [TS]

  kid who is now very well riding a bike [TS]

  that took no time thank you John you [TS]

  were right and it's awesome so we're [TS]

  riding around but it's running very [TS]

  slowly so like it's kind of hard to like [TS]

  hold yourself up all that time and [TS]

  you're going like two miles an hour [TS]

  secondly the bike shorts with built in [TS]

  but padding I don't really see the point [TS]

  of that honestly I mean again maybe this [TS]

  is I mean that professional bike ists [TS]

  have some good reason for but if they're [TS]

  saying the seat shouldn't be padded your [TS]

  shorts should be padded well I think [TS]

  there but I think they're both padded [TS]

  like double doubling up the padding I [TS]

  guess then you get then you get to look [TS]

  like stupid sexy flanders III appreciate [TS]

  these two options [TS]

  written in by the professional bike ists [TS]

  I am NOT going to take either of them [TS]

  instead I did what I said I was gonna do [TS]

  last week and I just went on Amazon and [TS]

  spent eighteen dollars on a really soft [TS]

  cushy seat and that's great and it's [TS]

  fixed it pretty much as well as anything [TS]

  besides new tyres could so done well [TS]

  stupid sexy finest was skiing not biking [TS]

  there wasn't refiners have bike shorts [TS]

  too anyway [TS]

  bike shorts you can kind of be a no [TS]

  Majah stupid sexy flanders is this the [TS]

  first time i've ever had to podcast [TS]

  topic about my butt name might be [TS]

  not the last probably dan just to do a [TS]

  quick status check how many bikes did [TS]

  you buy in the last week well how do I [TS]

  measure so what if I said you've [TS]

  returned Tony but we're the new bike [TS]

  slow [TS]

  Harmony House hopeful well technically I [TS]

  was asking to be funny and now you're [TS]

  giving me a legitimate friggin answer [TS]

  technically two but one was a [TS]

  replacement for a defect one in one all [TS]

  right oh my god yeah the other one was [TS]

  the sand bike it's amazing I thought you [TS]

  weren't getting one but you borrowed the [TS]

  neighbors and you were like oh that's [TS]

  just saved me a lot of money now I'm not [TS]

  gonna buy the thing because I know that [TS]

  it's hard work yep and then I bought it [TS]

  it's a lot of fun it's a lot of how do [TS]

  we do this John John how do we how do we [TS]

  do it you're gonna say I'm like for Adam [TS]

  he's got unlimited energy he could just [TS]

  be whirring away on those pedestals [TS]

  forever he's riding nine miles a day [TS]

  just get him a sandbag he'll be down to [TS]

  like you know four and a half the same [TS]

  amount of effort it's actually a lot [TS]

  easier to follow him in a sand bike [TS]

  because it's like you can go first of [TS]

  all you can go slowly more easily [TS]

  because the tires are so big that's five [TS]

  inch times and then the other thing is [TS]

  that when when he you know as you're [TS]

  going down Lee you know some of the [TS]

  boring parts of the ride if you're on [TS]

  the sand bike you can go in like the [TS]

  sand berm on the side of the sidewalk [TS]

  and have more fun and jump over the [TS]

  various things there and you know makes [TS]

  a little more fun the regular bike it [TS]

  with the firm ride is the way more [TS]

  practical one that is the one I should [TS]

  have and the one I still ride a lot of [TS]

  the time the sand bike is the fun one [TS]

  that's the one that makes me smile I [TS]

  can't believe you had a serious answer [TS]

  for that question I should have known [TS]

  better I should have known just window [TS]

  he stops using the same bike in the snow [TS]

  bring it back home for the winter [TS]

  actually was thinking about trying that [TS]

  I have it attached jetan who's this sign [TS]

  put skis into the wheels okay let's just [TS]

  move on to ask a teepee Robert [TS]

  prejudiced I'm so sorry Robert asks OLED [TS]

  or LCD for future iPhone in my [TS]

  experience OLED is inferior burns out [TS]

  why doesn't ever white but rather [TS]

  pinkish or greenish I don't have very [TS]

  many thoughts on this other than to say [TS]

  the only oled screen that I'm aware of [TS]

  that I have is my Apple watch because [TS]

  that's all LED right and and I haven't [TS]

  noticed any of these issues personally [TS]

  that doesn't mean he's wrong by any [TS]

  means I just it just means I haven't [TS]

  noticed them so androids been [TS]

  Android shows an OLED for a long time [TS]

  and like why why samples that have LCD [TS]

  the one of the theories is that Apple's [TS]

  standards for colour reproduction and [TS]

  you know like just general quality image [TS]

  quality have not been able to be met by [TS]

  OLED screen so you know that practically [TS]

  speaking like future I'll see the future [TS]

  for iPhone well the new iPhones coming [TS]

  out are gonna be all that certainly the [TS]

  pro one maybe the other ones as well [TS]

  right so there's that practical thing of [TS]

  like hey the next new iPhones you're [TS]

  gonna get some o LEDs on long term does [TS]

  that mean like all phones are gonna be [TS]

  already going forward if Apple puts an [TS]

  OLED in their fancy new phone it [TS]

  probably means they were able to get the [TS]

  quality up to their standards so it's as [TS]

  good as and certainly better in black [TS]

  levels than the LCDs ones to replace [TS]

  them so Apple has waited a long time to [TS]

  jump from LCD to OLED but they're doing [TS]

  it now which probably means they're [TS]

  gonna be good and if they are good the [TS]

  potential power saving advantages of [TS]

  them mean that there's no reason for [TS]

  them to go back to LCD and you know and [TS]

  the the black level improvements on them [TS]

  so I think that the future of the iPhone [TS]

  line is all OLED as soon as Apple can [TS]

  swing that in terms of cost maybe right [TS]

  now they're fancy OLED screen and the [TS]

  volumes they can get produced in I mean [TS]

  that they'll have to keep shipping LCD [TS]

  iPhones for a long time and certainly [TS]

  these step-down models a lot gonna be [TS]

  LCD for their lives until they get [TS]

  replaced by step-down OLED model some [TS]

  for burnin you know image retention [TS]

  whatever LCD still has that all that is [TS]

  supposedly worse we'll find out how much [TS]

  worse but you know we've seen LCDs with [TS]

  really bad image retention and LCDs with [TS]

  not so bad image retention presumably [TS]

  the same is true we'll find out and [TS]

  white being never white or pinkish that [TS]

  goes back to quality like presumably [TS]

  than one of the screens that Apple's got [TS]

  don't suffer from that problem so short [TS]

  answer kool-aid Josh stager writes what [TS]

  is Marcos process for reselling his [TS]

  myriad of machines would this work for [TS]

  someone without a hundred thousand [TS]

  Twitter followers so basically my [TS]

  process is when I want to sell something [TS]

  whether it's a laptop or you know [TS]

  something else when I want to sell [TS]

  something that I think anybody on [TS]

  Twitter might [TS]

  you know it moves fast the reason that [TS]

  moves fast yes it part of it is that I [TS]

  have a lot of followers so I kind of [TS]

  have an unfair advantage there part of [TS]

  it is that I know how much it cost me to [TS]

  sell something on eBay if you sell [TS]

  something on eBay you're gonna lose [TS]

  roughly 15% in various fees and [TS]

  everything so it's eBay is great if you [TS]

  search completed items and more [TS]

  specifically sold items it's great to [TS]

  tell you kind of what something is worth [TS]

  and I know that if I I sell it on eBay [TS]

  I'm only gonna net you know 15 or 20% [TS]

  under that price so then I just post on [TS]

  Twitter saying hey I'll sell us you know [TS]

  for you know 20 percent under eBay is [TS]

  price whatever and it moves fast because [TS]

  it's both you know being shown to a lot [TS]

  of people and it's also a really good [TS]

  deal [TS]

  I value simplicity and speed to the deal [TS]

  over you know getting the absolute [TS]

  maximum price for it so if you're what [TS]

  if you want to sell things either you [TS]

  have two tools at your disposal you can [TS]

  either you know go for a big audience or [TS]

  you know which you know if you if you [TS]

  don't a lot of Twitter followers and [TS]

  followers elsewhere you know eBay is [TS]

  your best chance there or you can just [TS]

  sell it for a very very attractive price [TS]

  if you just want to move fast and I [TS]

  choose to do both of those things so I [TS]

  don't think it's really the follower [TS]

  count that is as big a deal I mean [TS]

  certainly that helps but an obviously [TS]

  need to be above some threshold to have [TS]

  any idea selling but the the key factor [TS]

  for why once you get above a certain [TS]

  number or followers why you why Marco in [TS]

  particular has success selling things in [TS]

  addition to the pricing that you just [TS]

  talked about is that lots of people feel [TS]

  like Lea no Marco from all the things [TS]

  that he does in public and so there's a [TS]

  certain level of trust that is implicit [TS]

  trust that he's not just some random [TS]

  scammer and not just trust like oh he [TS]

  seems nice on podcast so I think he's a [TS]

  nice person it's sort of a mutually [TS]

  assured destruction thing if you are a [TS]

  quote-unquote public figure right if you [TS]

  have a public reputation and something [TS]

  to lose chances are good that you're not [TS]

  going to be like you know an internet [TS]

  famous nerd person with a hundred [TS]

  thousand followers and then scam someone [TS]

  by taking their money and never shipping [TS]

  the machine to them right you wouldn't [TS]

  do that because that person's gonna be [TS]

  like hey they'll write a blog post it'll [TS]

  be like I tried to buy Mark Roberts [TS]

  computer and he took my money and never [TS]

  sent me the computer [TS]

  and that would get a bazillion hits and [TS]

  it would be all over the internet like [TS]

  Marco has something to lose his [TS]

  reputation and people would care about [TS]

  that story people would listen to that [TS]

  person's story if it's like Oh famous [TS]

  person doesn't mean thing whereas random [TS]

  scammer takes your money doesn't send [TS]

  you the thing on eBay and you write a [TS]

  blog post about it [TS]

  no one's gonna post that on Hacker News [TS]

  no one's con dude you know it's not [TS]

  gonna be on TechCrunch front page it's [TS]

  not gonna be in tech name no one cares [TS]

  about you so you got scammed by selling [TS]

  Internet that's great right so I think [TS]

  the combination of people understanding [TS]

  that Marco has something to lose and [TS]

  people generally think feeling like they [TS]

  know him from all this podcasts and it's [TS]

  work say that he's probably really got [TS]

  this computer he's not lying about it [TS]

  he's gonna ship it to me like he says [TS]

  he's going to and that peace of mind [TS]

  does not exist on ebay whether buying or [TS]

  selling or Craigslist or anything like [TS]

  that it's like I don't know these people [TS]

  this could not be a person at all this [TS]

  could be a bot somewhere you know in [TS]

  Lithuania I have no idea about any of [TS]

  this whereas it's kind of like it's not [TS]

  like buying it for a friend because they [TS]

  don't know Marco know him but the [TS]

  combination of mutually assured [TS]

  destruction public figure thing and the [TS]

  general nice feelings people have for [TS]

  people that they read their blog posts [TS]

  and listen to that podcast that is super [TS]

  important on top of the large number of [TS]

  followers now does that mean all this [TS]

  advice is completely useless for [TS]

  everybody I think Marcos advice is the [TS]

  most useful like price it's move and [TS]

  it'll move but you still have to find [TS]

  some venue for putting your offer in [TS]

  front of people and then you have to [TS]

  Marco's got this on his side you have to [TS]

  deal with the person who makes the offer [TS]

  you write the thing on Twitter hopefully [TS]

  you're narrowing down but people who [TS]

  follow you on Twitter and notifying your [TS]

  stuff there as it's not just a bunch of [TS]

  random individuals but you still have to [TS]

  deal with that person and hope that they [TS]

  you know you get the money from them [TS]

  you're gonna send another thing and all [TS]

  that stuff like that so I don't think [TS]

  there's any easy answers here but if you [TS]

  can if you can at all get yourself a [TS]

  hundred thousand Twitter followers and [TS]

  have a public reputation on the internet [TS]

  for a decade or two that really helps [TS]

  out with selling stuff I'd also like to [TS]

  add that if you're willing to trade a [TS]

  little bit of lost money so to speak for [TS]

  convenience [TS]

  ghazal who honestly don't remember if [TS]

  they were a past sponsor of the show [TS]

  they probably were but I've used them by [TS]

  choice and there are other equipment [TS]

  people as well but gizelle is super nice [TS]

  for technology related things so like [TS]

  old computers old phones etc and [TS]

  basically you just tell them hey I've [TS]

  got some such device it's approximately [TS]

  this quantity quality and they mail you [TS]

  a box you put your device in the box you [TS]

  mail it to them and they will give you I [TS]

  think it used to be I don't know if this [TS]

  is still true like an Amazon gift card [TS]

  or a I think like a cheque or something [TS]

  like that and typically these prices are [TS]

  not as good as they would be if you did [TS]

  like an eBay or something like that but [TS]

  they're not terrible and if you want it [TS]

  if you're willing to trade a little bit [TS]

  of money for supreme convenience I def [TS]

  and you don't have a hundred thousand [TS]

  Twitter collars I definitely recommend [TS]

  looking into one of these places like [TS]

  gazelle I've heard very good things [TS]

  about some sort of quasi equivalent [TS]

  thing or maybe it's more like eBay that [TS]

  Amazon does I don't know anything about [TS]

  it really but I've heard good things but [TS]

  there are there are ways you can do this [TS]

  is what I'm driving out there were there [TS]

  are ways you can do this without having [TS]

  a hundred thousand Twitter followers I [TS]

  would also say if you if what you are [TS]

  selling is an Apple product if you're [TS]

  gonna go that route [TS]

  check out Mac me and offer this is [TS]

  something I learned from Paul Haddad of [TS]

  Tweetbot I got a great deal on one of my [TS]

  MacBook Pros that I sold last year by [TS]

  just talking to them instead it you know [TS]

  there's a bunch of these sites that buy [TS]

  this stuff most of the time the deals [TS]

  that you get are awful a big site like [TS]

  gazelle that you know the the prices you [TS]

  get are hideously bad like you only sell [TS]

  to them if you really really don't want [TS]

  to go to like eBay or something like [TS]

  that but yeah this is and sometimes it [TS]

  doesn't work out sometimes you know like [TS]

  like one of the things I found is when [TS]

  you're selling something that is not [TS]

  that old but not that popular or not [TS]

  nestling very well so for instance when [TS]

  I sold my 15 inch touch bar last year or [TS]

  when I sold the twelve point nine inch [TS]

  iPad pro those were things that because [TS]

  I guess they weren't selling that well [TS]

  Apple was discount of them pretty deeply [TS]

  in in both their refurb store and [TS]

  through partners like Best Buy and [TS]

  Target that are like apples official [TS]

  retailers but that like they go on sale [TS]

  they're mysteriously when Apple needs to [TS]

  move more [TS]

  them even when Apple themselves never [TS]

  puts anything on sale so if the thing [TS]

  you're selling is one of those things [TS]

  you might like you might be stuck with [TS]

  something that's not worth nearly what [TS]

  you what you paid for it or what you [TS]

  think it should be worth but you know if [TS]

  you go to one of these sites you can [TS]

  usually you know get a bunch of offers [TS]

  and you know pick whatever one is [TS]

  easiest for you alright the final ask [TS]

  ATP for this week [TS]

  t Dell rights have any of you ever seen [TS]

  a doctor or physical therapist because [TS]

  of RSI I will start because I have a [TS]

  boring answer which is no I haven't [TS]

  every great once in a while one of my [TS]

  wrists will hurt ever so slightly and [TS]

  I'll adjust my positioning or whatever [TS]

  the case may be and I've been lucky [TS]

  enough that it tends to go away very [TS]

  quickly this is where the entire [TS]

  internet writes in to say oh you've [TS]

  already got it it's too late oh that's [TS]

  probably true and that's okay I will try [TS]

  to do this in order of severity of RSI [TS]

  problems so I will move on now to Marco [TS]

  I have I don't think of a person a [TS]

  doctor for RSI I did have a major back [TS]

  issue that put me into physical therapy [TS]

  for a little while about ten years ago [TS]

  but that was you know I asked a few [TS]

  hours I related questions during that [TS]

  little process but I made a few changes [TS]

  that happen to be similar because it was [TS]

  about like sitting too much and stuff [TS]

  but otherwise the answer is generally no [TS]

  I've only had very minor RSI problems [TS]

  and I have solved them mostly by reading [TS]

  a few books and articles and making [TS]

  changes to like you know make sure my [TS]

  desk is the right height make sure my I [TS]

  have an appropriate chair and I switched [TS]

  to a natural keyboard with the split [TS]

  layout and and those things were [TS]

  basically enough for for me to solve my [TS]

  minor issues so far alright John I'm [TS]

  buckled in let's hear the story so I [TS]

  have Condor doctor my first really bad [TS]

  flare was back when I lived in Georgia [TS]

  shortly after graduating college and I [TS]

  went to a general practitioner and got [TS]

  referred and nothing really came of that [TS]

  and then I you know didn't everything [TS]

  they recommended was not useful [TS]

  I eventually came up to move back up to [TS]

  Massachusetts and same deal went to [TS]

  general practitioner got referred [TS]

  eventually found a physical therapist [TS]

  who actually helped me [TS]

  and kept going to see that person for a [TS]

  while and it did a bunch of adjustments [TS]

  and life changes and stuff like that and [TS]

  now I'm basically managing it the the [TS]

  difficulty with this is it's basically [TS]

  it's hard to find doctors or specialists [TS]

  or GPS who understand RSI like at all [TS]

  right a lot of doctors have a vague [TS]

  surface-level understanding it's [TS]

  basically at the same level the average [TS]

  person where I think our RSI is [TS]

  synonymous with carpal tunnel and don't [TS]

  really know about any of the details and [TS]

  give you dumb advice or tell you to take [TS]

  Advil all which is useless if you do [TS]

  find someone who actually understands [TS]

  our I saw it and treats RSI and you know [TS]

  takes it seriously and actually knows [TS]

  what will help people because they have [TS]

  lots of patients that do this that's [TS]

  that's great but it takes a lot of tries [TS]

  to get there you don't I don't think [TS]

  anyone ever needs their their general [TS]

  practitioner do anything for them mostly [TS]

  you need to find some kind of specialist [TS]

  whether it's a specialist doctor or [TS]

  occupational therapist or physical [TS]

  therapist or whatever it may be I you [TS]

  know I always tell people that they with [TS]

  you know I would tell Casey you know see [TS]

  a doctor but it's like it's good advice [TS]

  this is something they should do but [TS]

  it's bad advice because I know if I tell [TS]

  them that and they go see their doctor [TS]

  their doctor is almost certainly not [TS]

  gonna help them at all but you have to [TS]

  keep going and like finding it's like [TS]

  you know use the internet find other [TS]

  people in your area who have RSI and as [TS]

  I think everyone has learned now in this [TS]

  age where everybody sits in front of [TS]

  something and types for long periods of [TS]

  time [TS]

  did you know if if you're certainly in [TS]

  our tech nerd programming circles right [TS]

  but I think just in general the number [TS]

  of people that we all know that have RSI [TS]

  is way bigger than people think too some [TS]

  people just don't talk about it I just [TS]

  think about it who do we know that is [TS]

  that are that you both know me Marco [TS]

  said it a little bit [TS]

  we know Mike early we just go through [TS]

  all the real a family Gray has RSI [TS]

  problems like this a lot of people have [TS]

  it and so there there is a market for [TS]

  helping these people so you should be [TS]

  able to find it'll be difficult I'd been [TS]

  we'll be difficult it will not be easy [TS]

  but you should be able to find someone [TS]

  who can help you in your area and what [TS]

  will help you what kind of doctor will [TS]

  help you what kind of treatment will [TS]

  help you I don't know but you should the [TS]

  worst thing you can do is ignore it so [TS]

  you have to go through that annoying [TS]

  terrible US healthcare system rigmarole [TS]

  of doing whatever you have to do to get [TS]

  whatever referrals you need to have and [TS]

  if referrals crappy go back to your GP [TS]

  if you still need to referral and say I [TS]

  would like you to refer me to this [TS]

  person or sometimes you just can't you [TS]

  know this person has added Network and [TS]

  you have to pay out-of-pocket you have [TS]

  to do what you have to do but ignoring [TS]

  is the worst thing you do so sure to [TS]

  answer that question yes some of us have [TS]

  seen oh my word we should answer the [TS]

  next yes-or-no question we get we should [TS]

  just ask you know each of us go yes or [TS]

  no answer yeah okay I'm not sure I'm [TS]

  capable with that and with respect I am [TS]

  positive that you to or not I could [TS]

  totally do it no you're you're you're [TS]

  wrong sir we are sponsored this week by [TS]

  aftershocks bone conduction headphones [TS]

  go to ATP aftershocks calm to learn more [TS]

  aftershokz headphones worked by bone [TS]

  conduction small transducers rest in [TS]

  front of your ears not inside or around [TS]

  or on top of them like most headphones [TS]

  and they send vibrations through your [TS]

  cheek bones directly to your inner ear [TS]

  which bypasses your ears and eardrums so [TS]

  unlike every other kind of headphone [TS]

  bone conduction leaves your ears [TS]

  completely open with nothing in or on [TS]

  top of them this pretty some major [TS]

  benefits so first of all it's great for [TS]

  comfort if like me [TS]

  earbuds actually hurt your ears and [TS]

  they're also as I'm finding this summer [TS]

  great for exercise and hot weather [TS]

  because they don't cover your ear so [TS]

  they are far less sweaty than regular [TS]

  headphones and if I do sweat a little or [TS]

  if I get caught in the rain outside no [TS]

  problem they are ip55 certified for [TS]

  water resistance and for me the biggest [TS]

  thing about aftershocks the big reason [TS]

  that determines whether they are right [TS]

  for you [TS]

  is that because nothing is blocking your [TS]

  ears you hear all of the sound from the [TS]

  world around you so this can be a bad [TS]

  thing if you're in a place like a very [TS]

  loud subway station but this can be a [TS]

  very good thing if you think about it in [TS]

  different situations such as if you are [TS]

  taking a phone call while doing things [TS]

  around the house or you need to listen [TS]

  for your kids while you also listen to a [TS]

  podcast or if you're like I do here [TS]

  walking or cycling or running when it's [TS]

  really important for safety and [TS]

  practicality for you to hear the world [TS]

  around you but you might want to listen [TS]

  to you know an audiobook or a talk-show [TS]

  while you're doing that after Sox work [TS]

  great if you need to generally hear the [TS]

  outside world while you want to listen [TS]

  to a podcast or take a phone call if I'm [TS]

  honest you know sound quality for music [TS]

  is not great you want these things for [TS]

  spoken word content when you're in an [TS]

  environment where you want to hear [TS]

  what's going on around you that's the [TS]

  bet and aftershocks are so good for that [TS]

  Here I am I'm on vacation for about a [TS]

  month I have only brought with me the [TS]

  aftershock headphones for all of my [TS]

  portable use everyday I've been walking [TS]

  my dog and taking bike rides for like [TS]

  two hours using aftershocks and they are [TS]

  the best for this purpose I'm so happy [TS]

  with them the model I'm using it's a [TS]

  flagship model called the trucks [TS]

  titanium I cannot recommend this enough [TS]

  for outdoor activities doing stuff [TS]

  around the house anywhere where it's not [TS]

  too loud around you and you want to hear [TS]

  what's going on around you while [TS]

  listening to talk content they are [TS]

  perfect for that battery life is great [TS]

  they're water resistant check it out the [TS]

  abstracts track titanium retails for one [TS]

  hundred and thirty bucks but through our [TS]

  link ATP after song comm you can get a [TS]

  pair for just 100 bucks [TS]

  ATP aftershocks calm thank you so much [TS]

  to aftershocks for sponsoring our show I [TS]

  got two pieces of bad news this week I'm [TS]

  gonna start with the easy one because [TS]

  that's not a topic but it's just sad and [TS]

  if people have workarounds I want to [TS]

  hear it apparently there's a new version [TS]

  of the Google photos uploader and in [TS]

  that new version I'm being told by a [TS]

  friend of mine it does not recognize [TS]

  Network there or perhaps there's just no [TS]

  place to add a network share I have not [TS]

  yet updated and now I fear it but there [TS]

  will probably come a time that I will [TS]

  need to update and I don't know what I'm [TS]

  going to do because I currently have it [TS]

  pointed at a folder on my knowledge II [TS]

  that has all of our pictures because now [TS]

  that we have a child there is in an [TS]

  insurmountable just indescribable amount [TS]

  of photos and I need the disk space on [TS]

  this analogy to hold them that was bad [TS]

  news number one bad news number two the [TS]

  m5 only comes automatic now oh that's [TS]

  right [TS]

  I tell both of you this like [TS]

  weeks ago I didn't want to believe you I [TS]

  didn't either it was not a rumor it was [TS]

  like it's the real Newt anyway God was [TS]

  that was that was bad news number two [TS]

  and not only that but I I would like to [TS]

  publicly concede to Marco that I believe [TS]

  you and I had an argument I don't [TS]

  remember if it was public or not I don't [TS]

  remember if this was neutral time or not [TS]

  but you were adamant that the next m5 [TS]

  would have all-wheel-drive and I don't [TS]

  think I was adamantly opposed but I was [TS]

  definitely very opposed and you were [TS]

  correct sir that the next m5 I can't [TS]

  believe you're conceding this now [TS]

  because I also believe I'm this very [TS]

  show like a year ago I said hey guess [TS]

  what Marco was right it's coming in [TS]

  all-wheel drive again again I wasn't I [TS]

  wasn't relating to you a rumor I was [TS]

  telling you a fact but apparently and [TS]

  only now to the public like oh wow it's [TS]

  real I was holding out hope I liked it [TS]

  when I told you it was like this was a [TS]

  done deal [TS]

  done anyway you guys don't listen to me [TS]

  well why would we what do you know about [TS]

  anything anyway the actual piece of bad [TS]

  news that I'm meandering toward that I [TS]

  really wanted to talk about now is that [TS]

  my backup provider I don't know if I [TS]

  would even say of choice I feel like [TS]

  this was kind of a I have no other [TS]

  options that I cared for so this was the [TS]

  only option I had which was crash plan [TS]

  has decided to sunset their consumer [TS]

  business so the reason I chose crash [TS]

  plan is because you can have it back up [TS]

  a network drive and it's considered to [TS]

  be part of your computer and thus I [TS]

  don't really don't remember what I was [TS]

  paying CrashPlan a year but it was [TS]

  something somewhere between five and ten [TS]

  bucks a month and in you could have it [TS]

  back up for in my case for example the [TS]

  Synology and it is just part of my ten [TS]

  bucks a month or whatever the number may [TS]

  have been and perhaps in part because of [TS]

  people like me they've decided okay [TS]

  we're not going to do the consumer side [TS]

  anymore we're only gonna do business [TS]

  small business enough a small business [TS]

  an enterprise and it's not going away [TS]

  for I think over a year and so I have [TS]

  plenty of time to figure out the answer [TS]

  but I've already been wanting to move [TS]

  away from CrashPlan because they have [TS]

  the world's worst native app which isn't [TS]

  really that terribly native it's a god [TS]

  whole java app is job got off on java [TS]

  redundant I think it is but anyway I [TS]

  thought they had a real native app now I [TS]

  believe they promised [TS]

  believe they promised [TS]

  native apps basically every three months [TS]

  for the last two years and never [TS]

  actually deliver them no III think they [TS]

  have one but it might only be for the [TS]

  business customers and not for the [TS]

  consumer ones that's exactly it so that [TS]

  the thing of being too I've been told [TS]

  and again I don't know if this is true [TS]

  or not is that it is only for the [TS]

  business side so one of the options that [TS]

  I have as a CrashPlan user is I could [TS]

  change to a business plan and I didn't [TS]

  think I wanted to do that on account of [TS]

  the fact that I didn't want their [TS]

  god-awful Java based client app but as [TS]

  we just established perhaps the business [TS]

  app or the business side wouldn't be so [TS]

  bad but I haven't had an overwhelmingly [TS]

  positive experience with CrashPlan it [TS]

  just hasn't been negative enough for me [TS]

  to do anything about it [TS]

  so at this point I'm starting to explore [TS]

  okay what are my other options and not [TS]

  only because they've sponsored the show [TS]

  and so you know they've given us some [TS]

  money in the past and and I'm kind of [TS]

  endeared to them for that but because [TS]

  everyone I know genuinely is said that [TS]

  CrashPlan is or excuse me that that [TS]

  Backblaze is phenomenal [TS]

  I've been looking at Backblaze but the [TS]

  problem with Backblaze is you can't do a [TS]

  network share and have that as part of a [TS]

  a regular home backways plan which is if [TS]

  I'm not mistaken why Marco is running I [TS]

  scuzzy or was a very at the very least [TS]

  running eyes cousin ology there you go [TS]

  because then it's treated as sort of [TS]

  kind of a local drive as far as backways [TS]

  is concerned and so you can you can [TS]

  upload your Synology and and still have [TS]

  a regular consumer plan so I could go I [TS]

  scuzzy but but I've heard Marco say in [TS]

  the past a lot of terrible things about [TS]

  it in just a five-way like forgiving [TS]

  what you've told me about your [TS]

  experience I I I am fearful of going [TS]

  down that road nobody should do it so [TS]

  there you go so I've heard some stories [TS]

  about well and somebody saying the chat [TS]

  right now well you can mount it as in yo [TS]

  via NFS and you know do some UNIX e [TS]

  things and maybe that would work okay [TS]

  maybe I've had a lot of people recommend [TS]

  using them back please be to hold on [TS]

  John I'm almost done I promise okay [TS]

  people saying maybe that org it does [TS]

  work people do do this it is the thing [TS]

  you have to futz [TS]

  but it absolutely is the thing that [TS]

  works with that place you can trick back [TS]

  plays into backing up your network share [TS]

  either by using eyes guys you like Marco [TS]

  which no one should do or by using the [TS]

  various means to mount your thing [TS]

  through NFS or Auto FS or whatever and [TS]

  that will work as well but that's also [TS]

  annoying right and that's the thing is I [TS]

  want something that's not fiddly because [TS]

  for all the bad things I have to say [TS]

  about crash plan it was not fiddly which [TS]

  is good so what was my final option Oh [TS]

  back lays b2 that's what it was one of [TS]

  the things that back lays is offering is [TS]

  instead of doing the traditional [TS]

  Backblaze home offering you can do back [TS]

  lays b2 and I'm not entirely clear on [TS]

  the delineation between the two but for [TS]

  the purposes of the conversation so far [TS]

  anyway it's basically a different kind [TS]

  of storage plan a different kind of [TS]

  setup where it's half a cent a gigabyte [TS]

  per month in order to back up to there [TS]

  and if you were to download more than [TS]

  just a pittance then there's a charge [TS]

  for that but that would hypothetically [TS]

  work for the Synology and in fact they [TS]

  either they have software or I think [TS]

  it's actually the Synology itself has a [TS]

  a front end that can upload directly to [TS]

  B 2 such that it would be very not [TS]

  fiddly however I have personally between [TS]

  4 and 5 terabytes of stuff on the [TS]

  Synology that I think is worth backing [TS]

  up now a lot of that is is say ripped [TS]

  copies of blu-rays that I still own [TS]

  before anyone starts calling the RIAA [TS]

  and MPAA that - thank you if my bad but [TS]

  anyway yeah I I realized that after you [TS]

  said it but point being like you know [TS]

  I'm not even talking about things that [TS]

  have fallen off of trucks a lot of this [TS]

  stuff is stuff that I have in Plex for [TS]

  convenience if nothing else and I [TS]

  recognize that I could rebuild it and I [TS]

  could perhaps exclusive exclude that [TS]

  from the backup but here again my my [TS]

  preference is I am willing to throw some [TS]

  modicum of money at this problem in [TS]

  order to make my life easier this [TS]

  probably sounds familiar given our [TS]

  conversation about Marko selling things [TS]

  so if I wanted to go to b2 which is my [TS]

  current theory it equates to roughly 20 [TS]

  bucks a month which is a far cry from I [TS]

  think the 60-ish dollars a year that I [TS]

  was giving to crash [TS]

  plans so I think the two most appealing [TS]

  options for me and then I'm gonna stop [TS]

  talking is go to the CrashPlan small [TS]

  business plan which is probably [TS]

  approximately the same money I was [TS]

  paying and it should in theory capture [TS]

  the Synology like he used to and there's [TS]

  a lot of me that's thinking that may be [TS]

  the right answer or finally use this as [TS]

  the excuse to divorce from CrashPlan and [TS]

  just use a combination of b2 for the [TS]

  Synology and regular Backblaze for my [TS]

  iMac and just do it that way so that is [TS]

  a lot of I know that was not a very [TS]

  brief summary but there's a lot here so [TS]

  let me I guess start by saying Marco [TS]

  what do you what are your thoughts on I [TS]

  scuzzy and then John I think you're in a [TS]

  similar scenario to me so I'd like to [TS]

  hear your thoughts on a more general [TS]

  level after Marcos well first let me [TS]

  step back a little bit let me say my [TS]

  opening statement to I know John's and I [TS]

  do think it's worth considering how much [TS]

  giant storage you actually need to keep [TS]

  and backup and everything you know we we [TS]

  as as nerds and as computer power users [TS]

  have for years you know many of us have [TS]

  kept these giant media libraries giant [TS]

  media collections and for some people [TS]

  yeah I you know if you actually go and [TS]

  watch those things on a regular basis [TS]

  maybe it's worth keeping those things [TS]

  but a lot of us I think ripped them from [TS]

  like this like artificial scarcity like [TS]

  when we were growing up and then with [TS]

  wasn't it a thing really and computer [TS]

  media was hard and rare you know it's [TS]

  like depression-era [TS]

  grandparents like you know you you grow [TS]

  up like hoarding this stuff so when you [TS]

  now we have these giant hard drives [TS]

  giant bandwidth you know media that's [TS]

  easier to rip off these giant disks like [TS]

  now we want to hoard it alright but the [TS]

  fact is like if you actually want to [TS]

  like finally go back and re-watch [TS]

  something that you've been saving all [TS]

  this time like is it really worth having [TS]

  paid all the money in the meantime on [TS]

  disks on backups of those disks on [TS]

  electricity to power these things in [TS]

  your house that are on all the time [TS]

  suppose you want to watch like one movie [TS]

  a month from your collection you just [TS]

  pay like five or ten bucks to buy it or [TS]

  whatever [TS]

  eat eat watch it you know the very few [TS]

  time [TS]

  is that you actually want to watch me [TS]

  out of that giant library and you might [TS]

  very well come out ahead [TS]

  and you're also gonna think like in that [TS]

  scenario where like suppose you don't [TS]

  store these all these files and you [TS]

  occasionally have to rebuy something to [TS]

  to watch it again might you even not [TS]

  even have to buy it like will it [TS]

  probably be available from like Netflix [TS]

  or a video or a few or like with some [TS]

  other service that you might already be [TS]

  paying for like many of the things that [TS]

  I've ripped I've ended up never watching [TS]

  because like oh I can just get them on [TS]

  Netflix also then if they deal with like [TS]

  suppose you have this library of you [TS]

  know ripped movies well suppose you [TS]

  ripped them as DVDs then HD comes out [TS]

  then blueberries come out then 4k comes [TS]

  out then 4k HDR comes out like by the [TS]

  time you actually want to go back and [TS]

  watch the thing is that Eve is your [TS]

  version of it even still the best [TS]

  quality or can you go on like Netflix [TS]

  the Netflix app on your TV that comes [TS]

  with your TV for free and watch like the [TS]

  same thing in 4k now you know so like I [TS]

  I highly suggest that anybody who's [TS]

  dealing with this problem of how do I [TS]

  backup a massive collection of media [TS]

  really do some some introspection here [TS]

  as like do I really need to be storing [TS]

  all this stuff and if I am storing other [TS]

  software I really need to be backing it [TS]

  up as much as I'm backing up like my [TS]

  family photos or is this a lot less [TS]

  important and can I either delete it and [TS]

  stop worrying about all this or not be [TS]

  backing it up in so many different [TS]

  places so that being said if you are [TS]

  going to backup stuff like this you know [TS]

  we we have these network attached [TS]

  storage devices from Synology that they [TS]

  sent us a long time ago it was very nice [TS]

  of them network attached storage devices [TS]

  are very complicated they're a huge [TS]

  solution to what might be a small [TS]

  problem if your problem is any more disk [TS]

  space an ass is massive overkill for [TS]

  that problem because they are big [TS]

  they're expensive they are entire other [TS]

  computers that you need to manage you [TS]

  need to run separate software updates [TS]

  because they have their own software [TS]

  usually their Linux base or something [TS]

  and because they're kind of their own [TS]

  computers their own kind of servers but [TS]

  they don't [TS]

  quite run Mac OS or Windows or you know [TS]

  anything that you're used to using on a [TS]

  regular computer they have their own [TS]

  special applications they can't run the [TS]

  applications that you might want the [TS]

  processors they run it usually very low [TS]

  end so certain things like Flex [TS]

  transcoding are very limited or you need [TS]

  certain models with certain accelerators [TS]

  or whatever else they're you know [TS]

  running an ass they're very powerful [TS]

  because they are there are little app [TS]

  platforms but if your main problem is I [TS]

  want more disk space for apps that run [TS]

  on a Mac I would say an ass is really [TS]

  quite overkill [TS]

  in the years since we've all gotten [TS]

  these network attacks George Nass things [TS]

  is okay to say NASA I never quite know [TS]

  is that like saying lies or is it like [TS]

  is it actually acceptable I think it's [TS]

  acceptable [TS]

  unlike nitrous Sox whatever the nitrous [TS]

  is yeah yeah this is why our car show [TS]

  was never good anyway yeah so also in [TS]

  the time since we've gotten these nasty [TS]

  vices hard drives gotten way bigger like [TS]

  we got these when the biggest dist you [TS]

  could buy at the time was four terabytes [TS]

  now you can get 10 terabyte drives and [TS]

  while the 10 terabyte ones are kind of [TS]

  expensive they're like about 500 bucks 8 [TS]

  terabyte ones which are barely smaller [TS]

  are like 300 bucks now like they're like [TS]

  these are really like hard drives are [TS]

  massive they're way bigger than they [TS]

  were even just a few years ago and they [TS]

  cost very little per terabyte the amount [TS]

  of stuff that we need to store seems it [TS]

  seems like if you're if you're able to [TS]

  use full-size three and a half inch hard [TS]

  drives the heart of capacity has [TS]

  dramatically outpaced our needs for you [TS]

  know most of the things we're storing [TS]

  like you're storing you said about 5 [TS]

  terabytes on my on my Synology which I [TS]

  you know I I have something like 16 [TS]

  terabytes of usable space with the way [TS]

  I've arranged all the drives with raid [TS]

  and everything I've used out of the 16 [TS]

  terabytes I've used about 10 or 8 but [TS]

  I've used it very irresponsibly just [TS]

  look because I knew I had like infinite [TS]

  space so I'm just like throwing stuff [TS]

  all over it like I'm here saying yeah [TS]

  tons of duplication movies that I will [TS]

  probably never watch stuff like that [TS]

  like because I just use it incredibly [TS]

  responsible now if I wanted to store my [TS]

  incredibly irresponsible roughly 10 [TS]

  terabytes of stuff [TS]

  I could get to 10 terabyte hard drives [TS]

  and put them in RAID one and be done so [TS]

  an ass first of all I don't think the [TS]

  complexity of an ass makes sense if [TS]

  you're gonna have fewer than about five [TS]

  or even eight disks and and if you're [TS]

  gonna have it you know it's this massive [TS]

  things like if you're gonna have an ass [TS]

  at all I think you to have a really good [TS]

  reason for why specifically that's the [TS]

  right approach for you as opposed to [TS]

  just any other option that's simpler [TS]

  that's maybe more local to a computer [TS]

  you know I understand and mostly agree [TS]

  with everything you've said however I [TS]

  think I would be remiss not to not [TS]

  mention that there are a lot of things [TS]

  that my Synology does that I am glad I [TS]

  have the Synology to do it so as an [TS]

  example I really like that I can have my [TS]

  Synology act as a VPN endpoint I really [TS]

  like that I can have my Synology act as [TS]

  a downloader for you know torrents such [TS]

  as Linux distros and other legal things [TS]

  or you know if I wanted to download some [TS]

  sort of binary from a newsgroup again [TS]

  nothing but legal things then I can do [TS]

  that sort of thing now to be fair all of [TS]

  those can be done on my iMac that is [TS]

  also usually on 24/7 but I do like that [TS]

  there is something off to the side that [TS]

  handles these sorts of things and so I [TS]

  agree with you that that if all you're [TS]

  looking for is a big hard drive there [TS]

  are better ways to solve this problem [TS]

  but in a lot of cases you may want just [TS]

  an absurdly large hard drive which this [TS]

  functions as and and that allows you to [TS]

  treat it as infinite storage because [TS]

  I've done the exact same thing you've [TS]

  done or maybe you want it to actually [TS]

  maybe you want to actually leverage some [TS]

  of the features of this computer that's [TS]

  always on on your network and so there's [TS]

  something to be said for that too oh [TS]

  absolutely and and there are other [TS]

  options for that too so like and and so [TS]

  before before I forget to cover the I [TS]

  scuzzy topic because I want I want to [TS]

  then move on to just attaching disk to a [TS]

  Mac but before I forget to cover eyes [TS]

  Guzzi so for those unfamiliar the way I [TS]

  scuzzy works in an a situation like this [TS]

  is basically the NASS treats a disk [TS]

  partition [TS]

  usually you know it's you say like [TS]

  alright these four just whatever make [TS]

  these into like a raid 5 raid 10 set [TS]

  this is now a nice cozy volume and then [TS]

  you you can see that I scuzzy software [TS]

  called nice cuz the initiator for some [TS]

  reason now to drive her not software and [TS]

  I don't have to call it initiator don't [TS]

  know I don't care please don't email me [TS]

  about that so you get the I scuzzy [TS]

  initiator which is $200 or so on the Mac [TS]

  because it's not built into Mac OS and [TS]

  that allows the Mac to mount that giant [TS]

  block of storage on the NASS as a local [TS]

  disc and it treats it like a local disc [TS]

  the Mac like the application of the Mac [TS]

  I'll see it as a local disc including [TS]

  Backblaze which is why this works and [TS]

  the Mac you actually format this virtual [TS]

  drive at from the max filesystem like [TS]

  you format it as Asian Fest or I hope [TS]

  eventually a PFS and then as far as Max [TS]

  is concerned that's a hard drive put [TS]

  into it they said it happens to be over [TS]

  your network and you know being hosted [TS]

  physically by the NASS this has a number [TS]

  of advantages you know it does allow [TS]

  things like Backblaze to work [TS]

  it also lets the Mac think the drive is [TS]

  native so like if you're only using [TS]

  network shared drives in the regular [TS]

  Nass way where the NASS just opens up [TS]

  shares over NFS or SMB or whatever you [TS]

  know whatever protocols it's using [TS]

  certain things on the Mac don't work [TS]

  very well like because it's a network [TS]

  share so it doesn't auto map for one [TS]

  usually and then it things like [TS]

  spotlight don't work very well like [TS]

  searching a network share doesn't work [TS]

  very well certain applications don't [TS]

  like running on network shares or [TS]

  operating on files on network share [TS]

  stuff like that a nice cozy volume [TS]

  because it is just like dumb block [TS]

  storage over the network there is no [TS]

  sharing of it like only one thing can be [TS]

  connected at a time like that is it's [TS]

  disk the whatever computer is running [TS]

  the initiator like that's that's the one [TS]

  that's using it there's no sharing you [TS]

  can share it from that computer as like [TS]

  a Mac share which I actually do on mine [TS]

  but then all the all the NASA's built in [TS]

  applications if there's like a media [TS]

  server application or plex on the NASA [TS]

  whatever else also all the supplications [TS]

  can't see the data anymore because as [TS]

  far as the NASA concerned this is just a [TS]

  big block of bits it cannot see the [TS]

  filesystem that's the running on it it [TS]

  is not interacting with it at all [TS]

  so it's really a pretty big waste of a [TS]

  NASA's capabilities to use I scuzzy also [TS]

  I scuzzy is fragile you know because [TS]

  you're treating the network like a local [TS]

  disk it must be on a wiry connection if [TS]

  that connection drops for a second it on [TS]

  mats and that could be you know damaging [TS]

  your data whatever else if it comes at [TS]

  the wrong time or whatever else happens [TS]

  and it's certainly inconvenient amounts [TS]

  and in general I don't recommend I [TS]

  scuzzy to anybody because you are [TS]

  wasting the NASA's abilities as an [TS]

  application platform you are needed to [TS]

  have another computer being always on [TS]

  computer on the network you know like in [TS]

  my case it's a Mac Mini and this Mac [TS]

  Mini does a few different things for me [TS]

  and it hosts this giant ice cozy volume [TS]

  off the Synology it's like you're [TS]

  already you're you're already using a [TS]

  computer that's on all the time anyway [TS]

  but using an ass as basically a giant [TS]

  hard drive enclosure which is fine if [TS]

  you already have one but I would never [TS]

  in a million years recommend that [TS]

  anybody who's starting fresh and doesn't [TS]

  already own an ass do this it is a [TS]

  terrible idea [TS]

  and nobody ever should do this alright [TS]

  John you've been very patient I [TS]

  appreciate it [TS]

  tell us your thoughts well I was gonna [TS]

  talk about a alternatives to crash plan [TS]

  but now apparently I have to defend the [TS]

  concept of an ass and also the idea of [TS]

  keeping movies so the the one area I [TS]

  think didn't get mentioned by Marco and [TS]

  one of the main reasons that I used an [TS]

  ass aside from the things Kasey was [TS]

  talking about like having a little [TS]

  computer and all the applications which [TS]

  I do use and enjoy is that you know the [TS]

  hard drives these hard drives are big [TS]

  and cheaper eight terabyte hard drives [TS]

  10 terabyte hard drives or whatever oh [TS]

  that whole discussion was about spinning [TS]

  disks these are all spinning disks [TS]

  they're you know eight terabyte SSDs are [TS]

  not cheap all right right you can buy [TS]

  them not cheap right so these are all [TS]

  spinning discs spinning disks are big [TS]

  noisy and hot I like big cheap storage [TS]

  especially for stuff like movies where [TS]

  it's just sequential reads and stuff [TS]

  like that I do not like spinning discs [TS]

  anywhere near me so I like the idea of a [TS]

  bunch of big cheap hot noisy expensive [TS]

  discs far far away from me for [TS]

  far away means network means the network [TS]

  attached storage so even if I just [TS]

  wanted the cheapest bucket of drives to [TS]

  throw crap into and even if an ass had [TS]

  no applications I would still want an [TS]

  ass just to get those disks far away [TS]

  from me and I would only be using them [TS]

  not for like primary storage but for for [TS]

  very large files that will mostly be [TS]

  read sequentially so I wouldn't put my [TS]

  photo library on an ass don't do that [TS]

  you probably be sad right I wouldn't put [TS]

  my applications there or anything like [TS]

  that but big data files there and of [TS]

  course an ass doesn't just give me a big [TS]

  bucket of stuff it gives me all the [TS]

  other things so that's that's why I [TS]

  think about this law I look at my sin [TS]

  analogy down there something to think [TS]

  about I ripped out all those drives [TS]

  replace them all with 8 terabytes how [TS]

  much space whatever by the way I'm like [TS]

  the two of you I don't know I kind of [TS]

  dunno I know how this happened but I am [TS]

  I have not been using my we have the [TS]

  same amount of store I have not been [TS]

  using my storage frivolously I've been [TS]

  using it carefully after I watch them [TS]

  right like if I ever watch a movie and [TS]

  it was crap immediately you know deleted [TS]

  if I rip a movie but then a new version [TS]

  comes out I delete that and rip the the [TS]

  new version right I have and have been [TS]

  using it frivolously and yet my analogy [TS]

  has been basically on the verge of being [TS]

  full meaning like only a few hundred [TS]

  gigabytes available on various volumes [TS]

  for almost this entire life the main [TS]

  reason is I do Time Machine backups to [TS]

  it if you do it if you have a couple of [TS]

  machines with a terabyte internal hard [TS]

  drives plus some external drives both [TS]

  time machine backing up to your Synology [TS]

  your backups get pretty big pretty fast [TS]

  so I've allocated a chunk of it to for [TS]

  backups for my two Macs right that's two [TS]

  terabytes just for their internal drives [TS]

  plus the three other internal drives [TS]

  there are a Mac Pro and the external [TS]

  drives that are attached to my wife's [TS]

  iMac so that's a couple of terabytes [TS]

  there and I have that on a raid set with [TS]

  some redundancy protection it's not raid [TS]

  zero right so there's more drives being [TS]

  used up so let's slow down slow down [TS]

  slow down you have your time machine [TS]

  volume with raid redundancy yes [TS]

  yes see I I i I'm not gonna say you're [TS]

  wrong there but when I was asking Marco [TS]

  cuz I think Marco had either gotten his [TS]

  Synology before me or maybe just set it [TS]

  up before me [TS]

  I'd ask Marco you know how did you do [TS]

  this and we have eight bay so knowledge [TS]

  ease and and what Marco recommended [TS]

  which I think was a good call was do was [TS]

  it raid zero for two of the physical [TS]

  drives so basically you're making one [TS]

  large hard drive out of two physical [TS]

  hard drives but having absolutely no [TS]

  redundancy and the only thing that goes [TS]

  on that volume is my time machine [TS]

  backups so if I drop one yeah I lose my [TS]

  time machine backups I I cannot tell you [TS]

  the last time I've needed a time machine [TS]

  back up I still use it because I want it [TS]

  to be there but I haven't used one in [TS]

  forever and yes this is where everyone [TS]

  writes us in says Oh raid zero you [TS]

  should never use that blah blah it's [TS]

  just for time machine that's it all so I [TS]

  can follow up that I'm I think I I can't [TS]

  tell from here but I think I actually [TS]

  switched it over to raid one when I [TS]

  upgraded its storage capacity a few [TS]

  years later because but I would also say [TS]

  also like you know it also only makes [TS]

  sense to do raid zero on Time Machine if [TS]

  my machine is not your primary backup [TS]

  you know which for us it isn't like I [TS]

  have a super-duper clone that's local to [TS]

  to the computer it's like a little local [TS]

  SSD that I tape onto the desk and and so [TS]

  like that is my primary backup our main [TS]

  drive time machine is a convenience [TS]

  historical backup only I also have cloud [TS]

  backup look there's the you know we have [TS]

  multiple things so if Time Machine is [TS]

  one of multiple things and you are and [TS]

  you want to not waste too much harddrive [TS]

  space on it that's when I recommend [TS]

  using raid zero if you're gonna do [TS]

  something like this but even today like [TS]

  again like a lot of this made sense back [TS]

  when we were doing it in when we're [TS]

  setting this up like what three years [TS]

  ago but these days with with the hard [TS]

  drive just so big it really removes a [TS]

  lot of the need to use RAID much at all [TS]

  or if you're going to use raid now you [TS]

  can much more often just use RAID one [TS]

  which is just straight mirroring and it [TS]

  the loss of the disk space doesn't [TS]

  really matter as much that's less space [TS]

  efficient than the other raid schemes [TS]

  that let you use more of the space but [TS]

  I'm more inclined to use raid0 I don't [TS]

  do this now but I'd be more inclined to [TS]

  use red zero for my media because media [TS]

  has less churn and there's less versions [TS]

  you know though but absolute Ripper [TS]

  clones - right but super duper z' don't [TS]

  save all versions I want to save as many [TS]

  old versions as possible and if if I had [TS]

  raid zero and one of the disks died I've [TS]

  lost all versions of Time Machine [TS]

  backups for two entire Mac's [TS]

  right now I have other Time Machine [TS]

  backups - anyway I have a little bit [TS]

  understand I have liberties but anyway [TS]

  that that burns a lot of disks and then [TS]

  of course I have my media I don't have a [TS]

  lot a lot of media and I do delete stuff [TS]

  from it but it adds up is I also have [TS]

  stuff in there like every WWDC video [TS]

  that Apple has ever released and the [TS]

  highest definition right that's the [TS]

  perfect thing for that right and it's [TS]

  like are you ever gonna watch it I'm [TS]

  archiving it I can't easily get that [TS]

  stuff again I have lots of crap like [TS]

  that and so that's my analogy basically [TS]

  filled up - anyway I I like it I like [TS]

  having an ass I like those big spinning [TS]

  you know he's far away from me and [TS]

  despite how huge it is I would even want [TS]

  more of it um and like Casey said before [TS]

  that's why I'm using CrashPlan in that [TS]

  Backblaze is because you know on my Mac [TS]

  I use back plays on my wife's Mac I use [TS]

  CrashPlan and on her Mac I mount to this [TS]

  analogy and I have CrashPlan back up the [TS]

  Synology volumes just like any other [TS]

  thing because it doesn't work backups no [TS]

  CrashPlan like back plays it's a flat [TS]

  fee for unlimited data and like Casey I [TS]

  take advantage of that and I have about [TS]

  5 terabytes fresh enough to crash plants [TS]

  like you said you know there's many [TS]

  times as you want so I did that's just [TS]

  for Jason snow I probably blew the quote [TS]

  sorry Jason [TS]

  so yeah so it was a great deal right and [TS]

  maybe that's why they're not offering it [TS]

  anymore it was like we can't afford to [TS]

  do that right so I'm in the same [TS]

  situation as Casey where they're their [TS]

  Sun setting and consumer product and I [TS]

  have to figure out what I'm gonna do [TS]

  about it the I forget how much I'm [TS]

  paying for our crash plant per year but [TS]

  it's it's super cheap especially for the [TS]

  amount of data I'm putting on it the [TS]

  offer they have for the small business [TS]

  thing it's least twice as expensive as [TS]

  the consumer one but still only like $10 [TS]

  a month per device for people with [TS]

  multiple devices that's a problem but [TS]

  I've only got [TS]

  one device is my wife's Mac that I'm [TS]

  doing that with so I don't mind that [TS]

  much the small business thing will have [TS]

  a link to the CrashPlan fact one of the [TS]

  questions on the fact is can i still [TS]

  move to CrashPlan for small business [TS]

  even if I'm not a small business the [TS]

  answer yes you can anyone can migrate it [TS]

  like other wise it's just called small [TS]

  business you don't have to be a small [TS]

  business although annoyingly they make [TS]

  you enter a company name so I entered [TS]

  some bogus thing or whatever but you do [TS]

  not have to be a small business use a [TS]

  small business and it's $10 per month [TS]

  per device but if you're a current [TS]

  crash-land subscriber there's an apology [TS]

  price for one year this that is 75% off [TS]

  so it's two dollars and fifty cents a [TS]

  month to upload unlimited data to [TS]

  CrashPlan and if you already have a [TS]

  CrashPlan thing you don't have to [TS]

  re-upload your five terabytes it will [TS]

  migrate your existing five terabyte back [TS]

  up and you'll just continue as normal [TS]

  that deal was too good for me to pass up [TS]

  two dollars and fifty cents a month for [TS]

  a year starting at the end of my current [TS]

  subscription that was extended for 60 [TS]

  days for unlimited backup yes please [TS]

  right even when it goes into ten dollars [TS]

  a month I might keep paying it just for [TS]

  the convenience I'm pretty sure I'm [TS]

  still running the java application and [TS]

  no it's not the most efficient thing in [TS]

  the world and it fills my disk with big [TS]

  files and takes a lot of memory and does [TS]

  stuff but in general I have enough [TS]

  control to make it lay off when I'm [TS]

  using the computer and only room and I'm [TS]

  not using it and for the most part it's [TS]

  done its job they do they do a you know [TS]

  it does a pretty good job of finding the [TS]

  files and backing them up and I just I [TS]

  just can't beat that pricing right and [TS]

  so after at the end of at the end of [TS]

  2018 when my gravy train ends and I have [TS]

  to decide whether I want to start paying [TS]

  $10 a month for my five terabyte backup [TS]

  that I might be like okay that's you [TS]

  know I'll just unsubscribe from Hulu or [TS]

  whatever the hell streaming service that [TS]

  I haven't used to take that money and [TS]

  and put it towards this or I might use [TS]

  one of the alternatives Erie listed but [TS]

  for now the sort of what's the least I [TS]

  can do to not have to think about this [TS]

  problem until the end of 2018 it was do [TS]

  the small business migration a lot of [TS]

  people are mad at crash plan like oh I'm [TS]

  never giving my business blah blah they [TS]

  should have handled the transition [TS]

  better [TS]

  arguably the 60-day extension could have [TS]

  been like a one-year extension or [TS]

  whatever but there's no real easy way to [TS]

  do this [TS]

  I made a plea to Backblaze which I you [TS]

  know use enjoy but that doesn't do [TS]

  Network volumes on Twitter which is [TS]

  where you where you interact with brands [TS]

  in case you didn't know you were sorry [TS]

  were you engaged with brands I engaged [TS]

  with the brand on Twitter and I said hey [TS]

  I would love it if you could backup [TS]

  Network shares and the disembodied voice [TS]

  of Backblaze the corporation said on [TS]

  Twitter unfortunately they left out a [TS]

  comma our business model would need a [TS]

  lot of reworking for us to offer Nass [TS]

  slash server for a fixed rate so it [TS]

  basically is any like we don't you know [TS]

  and well I'd said that you know so [TS]

  obviously they can't they would need to [TS]

  figure out how they can pay for that I [TS]

  said well you don't need to do what [TS]

  CrashPlan did which is whatever the [TS]

  thing was like sixty dollars a year for [TS]

  unlimited all you need to do is match [TS]

  CrashPlan small business because [TS]

  crash-land for home is gone you don't [TS]

  have to match their price anymore like [TS]

  apparently that was an unsustainable [TS]

  model right presumably CrashPlan for [TS]

  small business is a sustainable model at [TS]

  ten dollars per month per device so I [TS]

  would love it if Backblaze did that even [TS]

  they put a lemon ought they said like [TS]

  like you know five terabytes for ten [TS]

  dollars a month per device including [TS]

  Network things you know like I would I [TS]

  would try that right so I don't know [TS]

  what they're gonna do there I think b2 [TS]

  is their preferred solution for that [TS]

  which is not really a service it's it's [TS]

  a play on s3 it's just like a storage [TS]

  back-end but it has I think the cheapest [TS]

  rates let me look at had their pricing [TS]

  page up anyone else yeah I'm pretty sure [TS]

  it's the cheapest like large online [TS]

  block storage thing yeah so it's a point [TS]

  zero zero five cents per gigabyte per [TS]

  month for storage and point zero two [TS]

  I sign in front sorry I was gonna say my [TS]

  calculations are on half a cent for [TS]

  storage and two cents per gigabyte for a [TS]

  download and then it is less than s3 and [TS]

  Azure and Google Cloud which are the [TS]

  ones they put in a they also have a [TS]

  price calculator at the bottom or you [TS]

  could say here's what my initial upload [TS]

  is here's one monthly upload is here's [TS]

  my monthly deleted my monthly down [TS]

  load and it will price it out for you [TS]

  and it's not that bad but for my data [TS]

  for reasonable values that comes out of [TS]

  like twenty or thirty dollars a month [TS]

  but that's still three times but ten [TS]

  dollars a month is but that's just [TS]

  storage and Synology can backup directly [TS]

  to be two so I could do that [TS]

  but want to asked on Twitter as soon as [TS]

  this announcement was made okay what's [TS]

  everybody's favorite thing that will [TS]

  backup a Mac including an ass and in [TS]

  that tweet just save my try to save [TS]

  myself though it didn't work but tried [TS]

  to save myself a little time I said [TS]

  what's the best thing that on the Mac [TS]

  that backs up to an ass the backs up [TS]

  Network at that drives is it Ark or is [TS]

  it something else because I knew [TS]

  everyone know about Ark and I wanted to [TS]

  preempt them by saying yes I'm aware of [TS]

  Ark I'm checking in with everybody to [TS]

  see is there something else out there [TS]

  that's better and some people did get [TS]

  alternate suggestions that I looked at [TS]

  but then a thousand people are bought [TS]

  you try Ark anyway Ark a Mac application [TS]

  a third-party Mac application that will [TS]

  backup your Mac it's been it's been in [TS]

  development for a long time now and it's [TS]

  sort of novel thing is that you choose [TS]

  and pay for whatever storage back-end [TS]

  you want so if you want to pay for [TS]

  Amazon glacier or Amazon Drive or s3 or [TS]

  B to Ark will backup to any of them mark [TS]

  as a backup program it just says just [TS]

  point me at your place where you want me [TS]

  to put the data and it will put its data [TS]

  there and its format or whatever it does [TS]

  blah blah but you have to choose the [TS]

  storage thing and you pay for the [TS]

  storage thing so and you could change [TS]

  like you could you know stop paying for [TS]

  b2 and switch to Amazon drive or [TS]

  something presumably you have to you [TS]

  know transfer your backup over there or [TS]

  whatever so it's a nice divorce from the [TS]

  backup program and the storage back-end [TS]

  and a lot of people use that and they [TS]

  enjoy them they've been successful with [TS]

  it but given these storage back-end [TS]

  pricing [TS]

  none of these come close to matching [TS]

  CrashPlan splicing pricing or bad places [TS]

  pricing for that matter if you're not [TS]

  doing network attached storage so it [TS]

  seems like Ark is sort of the power user [TS]

  fancy thing where you get to pick the [TS]

  components and assemble it but if you [TS]

  have a huge amount of data like I do it [TS]

  just can't match the price of one of [TS]

  these all-you-can-eat things and all [TS]

  that you can meet things I'm being [TS]

  subsidized by people who backup like 100 [TS]

  Meg's right that's how they can be so [TS]

  cheapest because [TS]

  I'm paying the same amount per month for [TS]

  back blazer for CrashPlan as somebody [TS]

  who backs up like their 100 megabyte [TS]

  little folder of stuff right and so [TS]

  that's how I happens on him you know [TS]

  that's how these services can afford to [TS]

  give you the flower right because most [TS]

  people don't upload 5 terabytes it's [TS]

  just the stinkers like me and Casey that [TS]

  are for everybody else right but but you [TS]

  know that's how they have to figure out [TS]

  they're sort of you know histogram of [TS]

  how much people upload and make all the [TS]

  math work out whereas things like s3 and [TS]

  b2 where they're just selling you [TS]

  storage they just charge you for the [TS]

  storage like it's all you know it's all [TS]

  completely chunked out it's like well [TS]

  we're just a storage back-end and you [TS]

  don't get the - you don't get the past [TS]

  less for your storage just because [TS]

  someone else store is a little bit less [TS]

  than our thing it's it's a exactly [TS]

  dollars per gigabyte very granular [TS]

  service that doesn't care what you're [TS]

  doing with the storage you just pay for [TS]

  what you use and plus the paying for [TS]

  transfers is another thing that really [TS]

  it really bites you to paying on how [TS]

  much transfers you do so that was my [TS]

  choice for now is it basically I'm [TS]

  punting it down the road I'm gonna [TS]

  continue using CrashPlan for as long as [TS]

  I can also because I don't want to [TS]

  upload five terabytes anyplace else [TS]

  again I mean I have a fast connection [TS]

  but that would take a long time and [TS]

  during that time I would have no cloud [TS]

  backups of my thingies now to get back [TS]

  to Marco's point about not backing up [TS]

  not even having stuff on there in the [TS]

  first place for like ripped movies that [TS]

  you're never going to watch and others [TS]

  big stuff like that you could just you [TS]

  know pay five dollars to get it online [TS]

  or streaming from Netflix or whatever [TS]

  that only works for the people who [TS]

  aren't using an ass like Casey was just [TS]

  subscribing where there or like I have [TS]

  tried to do but I had to bail on and may [TS]

  try again ripping blu-rays without [TS]

  recompressing them right because there [TS]

  is nothing i'm recompressing them mo [TS]

  your complete animal like you are all [TS]

  right well anyway a lot of people rip [TS]

  them and don't recompress them just so [TS]

  they don't have to deal with blu-ray [TS]

  discs which as has been established in [TS]

  the show are terrible right so you just [TS]

  get rid of everything except the movie [TS]

  the actual movie file you hit play and [TS]

  it starts playing the movie right that [TS]

  actually is not a bad idea at all yeah [TS]

  but the thing is they're humongous and [TS]

  you know even if you watch them rarely [TS]

  is that always easy just to buy it on [TS]

  iTunes you can't get a [TS]

  you know a 4k you know if you have a 4k [TS]

  blu-ray thing UHD blu-ray and you rip [TS]

  that losslessly there is nothing you can [TS]

  get online streaming that can match that [TS]

  quality there's just nothing it's not [TS]

  even close even like 4k Netflix is just [TS]

  so massively compressed compared to [TS]

  where you get off of that plastic disc [TS]

  so if you care about that and you have [TS]

  some giant Nass somewhere with all these [TS]

  50 to 100 gigabyte rips of these things [TS]

  right there is no like oh I'll just get [TS]

  it online if you don't care about that [TS]

  well then why are you ripping a bunch of [TS]

  movies to you know I guess to get rid of [TS]

  the menus whatever but then the marcoh [TS]

  system starts to look better and better [TS]

  the less you care about the quality of [TS]

  your stuff right I'm kind of in the [TS]

  middle where I do care about it I didn't [TS]

  have any way to play things like that on [TS]

  there so sometimes I have like versions [TS]

  of things for kids on there with like [TS]

  English dubs and other more rare [TS]

  material sometimes I transferred things [TS]

  from my TiVo to there to free up space [TS]

  on my Tivo which is terrible because the [TS]

  compression is anyway it's better you [TS]

  don't do that it's dumb but it has [TS]

  happened so there's a lot of churn in it [TS]

  but it's not always the case that you [TS]

  can orbit something like home movies [TS]

  like I have all of my Omaha movies taken [TS]

  with my camcorder because I'm old and my [TS]

  kids are old now and my camcorder right [TS]

  I need to get that video off of the [TS]

  camcorders DV at least analog off of the [TS]

  camcorder and someplace else it's all [TS]

  ripped to the Synology then all gets [TS]

  backed up so if I had to do sort of like [TS]

  a trimming and say you can't back up 5 [TS]

  terabytes anymore deal with it I would [TS]

  try to stop backing up all of my media [TS]

  that is replaceable but I would still [TS]

  backup like all my Apple videos I would [TS]

  still backup all my kids videos and [TS]

  stuff like that and that's probably like [TS]

  half of the stuff because I don't have [TS]

  that many movies I mean I think I've [TS]

  shared my plex thing with with both of [TS]

  you guys like there's not that many [TS]

  movies in there like my my movie [TS]

  collection is mostly on shelves on [TS]

  plastic discs and I still take them out [TS]

  of the containers and put them in I just [TS]

  did it this weekend I took a thing out [TS]

  of a plastic out of case and put it into [TS]

  a slot and watched a movie it's a thing [TS]

  I still do it was a blu-ray it was [TS]

  criterion collection and it was look [TS]

  really good [TS]

  not 4k though but soon like Parker said [TS]

  I'll have to be getting the 4k versions [TS]

  of all of my favorite movies we're just [TS]

  fine I'm fine with it but anyway um yeah [TS]

  so CrashPlan sad don't pooh-pooh the [TS]

  small business thing take a look at it [TS]

  Ark seems to be the consensus for the [TS]

  things that you might want to try and if [TS]

  you don't have network attached discs [TS]

  back place [TS]

  I think you've convinced me that I [TS]

  should just bite the bullet and move to [TS]

  small business because that is [TS]

  definitely the price performer I didn't [TS]

  use tweet earlier Casey but there was a [TS]

  five terabyte limit on it no I don't [TS]

  think so [TS]

  I checked it's unlimited ok so then if [TS]

  it's basically the same thing you were [TS]

  getting before just now it's gonna be [TS]

  ten bucks a month after the apology [TS]

  period instead of five that's you know [TS]

  yeah bite the bullet that's still a [TS]

  pretty good deal for unlimited space [TS]

  with network volumes like that glaze [TS]

  beats it by I think about half if for a [TS]

  local file but for net to include [TS]

  Network files in that that's yeah just [TS]

  just pay it that's fine like they're [TS]

  they're really showing you a price hike [TS]

  here but that's totally fine you know [TS]

  you your other alternatives are all [TS]

  going to be more disruptive and probably [TS]

  more expensive we're sponsor this week [TS]

  by betterment rethink what your money [TS]

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  betterment comm / ATP that's betterment [TS]

  comm slash ATP betterment rethink what [TS]

  your money can do we've talked about [TS]

  doing an ass we talked about doing an [TS]

  ass with I scuzzy we've talked about [TS]

  trying to just not need any of this [TS]

  what if you still need lots of storage [TS]

  and you don't want an ass and I've [TS]

  wanted to I wanted to close my topic [TS]

  hopefully this topic with the other [TS]

  option which is if I were starting over [TS]

  today how would I do it cuz the only [TS]

  reason I have I scuzzy have mine ass now [TS]

  is because I already had an ass full of [TS]

  big disks and I'm like well I already [TS]

  have all the hardware might as well use [TS]

  it what I would do today if I was [TS]

  starting fresh I already have a Mac Mini [TS]

  server in my home I would just get a [TS]

  small number probably either 2 or 4 8 [TS]

  terabyte or 10 terabyte disks put them [TS]

  into very basic enclosures that have [TS]

  pretty much no intelligence to them [TS]

  whatsoever and plug them into the Mac [TS]

  Mini and have it be you know in in the [TS]

  you know basement or garage or whatever [TS]

  else so the noise isn't pod mirror just [TS]

  in the closet and just run either no [TS]

  raid whatsoever or the built-in Mac OS [TS]

  10 raid or there's an app called soft [TS]

  raid that is almost certainly the best [TS]

  option for any kind of advanced use as [TS]

  software raid on the Mac it's kind of [TS]

  expensive it's a hundred and eighty [TS]

  bucks for the full woman raid five or if [TS]

  you just need raid one or zero it's [TS]

  fifty bucks [TS]

  and again these days like you can get an [TS]

  eight you can get two eight terabyte [TS]

  drives for total of 600 bucks you get [TS]

  software soft raid live Edition for 50 [TS]

  bucks [TS]

  split min raid one and you have really [TS]

  safe 8 terabytes of storage for under a [TS]

  thousand dollars yeah you just build the [TS]

  Mac OS nasty realize so here's so [TS]

  basically here's where this benefits [TS]

  well the downside I think is obvious [TS]

  that you know you have to then run on a [TS]

  Mac OS you won't get some of the [TS]

  advanced rave features most NASA's these [TS]

  days including this analogies we have [TS]

  have some kind of system to [TS]

  automatically expand or at least [TS]

  somewhat gracefully expand capacity down [TS]

  the road without having to blow away [TS]

  your whole volume this is a system [TS]

  similar to what Drobo has offered for [TS]

  years Gerber made a famous but Drobo is [TS]

  terrible nobody should ever used robos [TS]

  they are incredibly unreliable if you [TS]

  ask around you will see so many horror [TS]

  stories from people who have trusted [TS]

  Robo and have had that trust be violated [TS]

  so I would not recommend Robo and and [TS]

  you know so other NASA's offer features [TS]

  like that where you can expand volumes [TS]

  over time by like replacing a small hard [TS]

  drive for the big one and then letting [TS]

  the thing rebuild and then eventually [TS]

  you can replace another the next drive [TS]

  with another big one let that rebuild [TS]

  and everything it's a slow process but [TS]

  it does indeed work you can't do that [TS]

  with I scuzzy [TS]

  unfortunately because it you know just [TS]

  has to be that one big block and can't [TS]

  resize a file system that doesn't know [TS]

  about you also as far as I know can't do [TS]

  that if you do a direct attached Mac [TS]

  method like what I'm what I'm saying [TS]

  here if like just get some drives plug [TS]

  it into a Mac as far as I know you can't [TS]

  do that in any way on the Mac that's at [TS]

  all reasonable except if you use the [TS]

  Drobo which again you should not do [TS]

  other than that other than losing [TS]

  dynamic expansion though a lot of the [TS]

  other stuff I actually find to either be [TS]

  a wash on the Mac or to be better so [TS]

  software wise if you think about like [TS]

  all the stuff case you know you've run [TS]

  on your Synology you run plex you run a [TS]

  VPN server you run the photo hosting [TS]

  it's like I honestly don't know what VPN [TS]

  server options exist for mac OS but I'm [TS]

  sure they exist oh definitely you can [TS]

  definitely run plex because I do and so [TS]

  I know I know that works it's even [TS]

  better because you have more processing [TS]

  power right right to quickly interrupt [TS]

  and to be absolutely clear the [TS]

  particular Nass that we have it is not [TS]

  powerful enough to be the Plex host so [TS]

  really my plex host is the iMac it's [TS]

  simply serving the content off of the [TS]

  Synology so I used my Synology as my [TS]

  primary plex server only when I had in [TS]

  the rare case where I can't transcode I [TS]

  switched to the iMac flex server so you [TS]

  know this is an aside that I wouldn't [TS]

  have interrupted had I realized we were [TS]

  going down since we've since I've [TS]

  interrupted here we are [TS]

  what I noticed was when I first started [TS]

  using the the Synology with Plex being [TS]

  served on the Synology it could not keep [TS]

  up with the media I was looking at at [TS]

  the time however I have been extremely [TS]

  diligent for literally years that [TS]

  anytime I add something to the Synology [TS]

  I make sure I convert it to mp4 so [TS]

  hopefully it can send that natively to [TS]

  whatever apple-based client I am viewing [TS]

  it upon and it's rare I use anything to [TS]

  look at plex other than an iPad or an [TS]

  Apple TV or something like that [TS]

  so I wonder if it actually isn't that [TS]

  bad if long as I'm not doing like an MKV [TS]

  or something like that which sometimes [TS]

  is already in h.264 anyway but I guess [TS]

  that's a roundabout way of saying I [TS]

  should probably try that again [TS]

  but and mess with the settings like go [TS]

  to original quality so it allows it to [TS]

  do with not transcoding it doesn't have [TS]

  to be m4v or mp4 it can be MKV like I've [TS]

  had a lot of success but obviously h.265 [TS]

  forget it like if anything thanks to 6/5 [TS]

  I worry that my Mac it's not gonna be [TS]

  able to do it until you know high sierra [TS]

  or whatever but this analogy can't do it [TS]

  prefer I just like it's my go-to think [TS]

  that's this when I have the big choice [TS]

  of which you know Plex thing do you want [TS]

  to pick Synology is the one I pick only [TS]

  after I try it first and it fails [TS]

  actually if I try it first and it fails [TS]

  the next thing I usually try is infuse [TS]

  on my Apple TV where it does the [TS]

  supposedly does the decoding on the [TS]

  Apple TV's CPU yeah yeah and then my [TS]

  third choice is Plex and well so the [TS]

  reason I brought all this up and I'm [TS]

  sorry for interrupting market but the [TS]

  reason I brought this up is to say [TS]

  you're right that the that I'm using my [TS]

  iMac to serve Plex and and that's [TS]

  basically what you're talking about [TS]

  doing as well yeah exactly like you know [TS]

  if you have like basically a headless [TS]

  Mac that is running as a server in your [TS]

  house and it doesn't have to be a Mac [TS]

  Mini it can be just like an old laptop [TS]

  or something you know it can be anything [TS]

  I think it's important though that it [TS]

  you know that it's serving literally a [TS]

  server role that it is not used for [TS]

  anything else and you then you can like [TS]

  you know you can put it somewhere so [TS]

  it's out of the way so you don't have to [TS]

  deal with harddrive noise like what John [TS]

  hates if you don't like the folks with [TS]

  hard drives and you can dedicate [TS]

  - rolls so like you know not only can [TS]

  you do things like we were talking about [TS]

  plexus stuff you can also do things that [TS]

  are exclusive to Apple platforms like I [TS]

  mentioned last week how or two weeks ago [TS]

  that I actually have my server Mac Mini [TS]

  logged into iCloud photos and the Photos [TS]

  app downloads originals to that Mac Mini [TS]

  and then back lays backs up those [TS]

  originals from that Mac Mini even though [TS]

  in addition to the ones that I have my [TS]

  main computer because that's one more [TS]

  place you can have your originals and [TS]

  then maybe you can have a laptop that [TS]

  doesn't have a hard drive big enough to [TS]

  store your originals but you know you [TS]

  have your originals on this other [TS]

  computer in your house that is being [TS]

  backed up to a cloud backup service also [TS]

  because it's a Mac you can use any of [TS]

  the cloud backup services you can use [TS]

  Ark you can use back plays you can use [TS]

  CrashPlan anything else if it runs on [TS]

  the Mac you can run on this unlike you [TS]

  know on an ass you're limited to [TS]

  whatever handful of services have [TS]

  clients for that Nass but on a Mac it's [TS]

  you can use any of them [TS]

  right and you can also do things you [TS]

  know you can do Network Time Machine you [TS]

  know again - but you can do things like [TS]

  Xcode bots that Nasus can't do you can [TS]

  run other Mac software like I have a [TS]

  fujitsu scansnap scanner and the [TS]

  scansnap software is hideous and [TS]

  requires the ugliest icon I've ever seen [TS]

  to be running on your talk all the time [TS]

  so I have run them on the Mac Mini so I [TS]

  don't have to have my main computer but [TS]

  you can also you know there's also [TS]

  occasional other server things that some [TS]

  people need in their house you know [TS]

  media related things development related [TS]

  things I've run my you bik wa t unify [TS]

  controller app on there you know just [TS]

  like stuff that you have to run on a Mac [TS]

  all the time for some reason for your [TS]

  home having a Mac server is this isn't [TS]

  for everybody of course you know that [TS]

  it's I would say it's a luxury but [TS]

  compared to an ass I think just a Mac [TS]

  server with a small number of giant hard [TS]

  drives plugged into it is actually more [TS]

  competitive today for what most people [TS]

  need than getting something getting some [TS]

  big NASA like a Synology the only other [TS]

  thing I will add to this is I would say [TS]

  if you run a Mac Mini headless which [TS]

  means with no display put into it you [TS]

  have probably [TS]

  weird little issues with the video [TS]

  weather it doesn't wake from sleep [TS]

  screen-sharing doesn't come up right or [TS]

  it comes up all black or the performance [TS]

  just sucks [TS]

  OS 10 does weird things when when [TS]

  there's no display plugged in Amazon you [TS]

  can get a $10 HDMI display emulator it's [TS]

  a little black dongle that plugs into [TS]

  the HDMI port on the back of a Mac Mini [TS]

  or set the side of any old laptop and it [TS]

  emulates a display which is a couple of [TS]

  resistors inside that's what I caught [TS]

  it's ten dollars a little plug thing it [TS]

  makes the Mac think that a 4k display is [TS]

  connected to it [TS]

  so it will run at 4k resolution through [TS]

  the you know screen sharing thing that [TS]

  you're using or any resolution between [TS]

  you know 0 and 4k and it fixes all those [TS]

  problems it wakes from sleep immediately [TS]

  with like any kind of screen sharing [TS]

  it's fast the animations are all smooth [TS]

  it it makes it rock solid I ran a Mac [TS]

  Mini headless for a few years for that [TS]

  one of these then I learn about this and [TS]

  got one it makes a massive difference I [TS]

  highly recommend anybody running a Mac [TS]

  Mini headless going Amazon get this here [TS]

  we'll put link in the show notes it is [TS]

  called the Compu lab 4k display emulator [TS]

  it's 10 bucks it completely changes [TS]

  running a Mac Mini headless so sad times [TS]

  with CrashPlan but it sounds like we [TS]

  might have a solution and the solution [TS]

  is more crash times the crash but the [TS]

  solution is pay them more money pay them [TS]

  less money is actually half the price [TS]

  you are paying for for the next year [TS]

  yeah 250 a month can't be 250 my friend [TS]

  limited backup with me yeah that's tough [TS]

  so they got a whole year grace period to [TS]

  evaluate our can decide what you're [TS]

  doing and so on and so forth that's why [TS]

  by the way for you mentioned Markova [TS]

  like things that you care the most about [TS]

  like do you should be backing up your [TS]

  photo is way more carefully than you're [TS]

  backing up like your ripped movies and [TS]

  stuff like that and I totally am and [TS]

  that's why I like having and paying for [TS]

  all these other things that aren't [TS]

  technically backup things like paying [TS]

  for a terabyte of google drive space and [TS]

  using the Google backup app to backup my [TS]

  photos like it's not it doesn't think [TS]

  it's backing them up and thinks oh [TS]

  you're using Google photos look [TS]

  have like 90,000 photos in google photos [TS]

  you must be using it's like no I'm using [TS]

  you as a backup that you were just [TS]

  another backup of just my photos right [TS]

  and you don't know you're another backup [TS]

  and I like it that way and you have [TS]

  redundant copies of pictures and you [TS]

  somehow slurp down the edits of my [TS]

  photos in addition to the originals like [TS]

  I don't care like your purpose is to be [TS]

  one more backup and you know a terabyte [TS]

  of Google Drive space is more expensive [TS]

  than I'm paying for crash plaintiff is [TS]

  just like you know ecosystem variety [TS]

  don't rely on one thing don't rely on [TS]

  one company on one service on one [TS]

  technique on one kind of backup even got [TS]

  incremental backups that clone backup so [TS]

  you got I don't even know I'm a backup [TS]

  all I do know is I'm getting a bunch of [TS]

  photos uploaded to me backups that's [TS]

  what you need and you know all the other [TS]

  hard drive backups and time machine and [TS]

  everything else that that's what helps [TS]

  me sleep at night with my backups is [TS]

  having a lot of them and having them all [TS]

  be very different in both corporation [TS]

  and even type and so CrashPlan not being [TS]

  perfect in being weird and having [TS]

  problems I'm able to deal with that [TS]

  because it's like oh I wasn't crash - [TS]

  not my only off-site backup of the [TS]

  things I care about most in the world [TS]

  not by a long shot [TS]

  like I've got you know photos in the [TS]

  cloud from Apple as well so my photos [TS]

  are in three cloud locations three and a [TS]

  half because I do backup some of them [TS]

  from my Mac with back plays - but anyway [TS]

  I'm hoping that my drive sizes will get [TS]

  bumped up and I guess that will probably [TS]

  cause me to pay even more for cloud [TS]

  storage but as you know as the spring [TS]

  hard drive prices and come down SSD [TS]

  prices have come down you can get to [TS]

  terabyte as is these for about the same [TS]

  prices I got my one terabyte SSD so [TS]

  things are going in the right direction [TS]

  I'm just hoping cloud storage starts [TS]

  dropping as well because I don't want my [TS]

  hard drives to be creeping up but cloud [TS]

  storage to be about the same price for [TS]

  the next five years cuz that will make [TS]

  me sad also my one final tip do not use [TS]

  Amazon glacier for anything it is awful [TS]

  even with arc architrave tries it's best [TS]

  it puts in a valiant effort but Amazon [TS]

  glacier is the worst do not use it if [TS]

  you need really cheap storage use back [TS]

  please be - anyway thanks for three [TS]

  sponsors this week betterment hover and [TS]

  aftershocks and mysteriously not back [TS]

  please responses show this week and [TS]

  we'll see you next week [TS]

  now the show is over [TS]

  they didn't even mean to begin because [TS]

  it was accidental oh it was accidental [TS]

  johnny research Margo and Casey wouldn't [TS]

  let him cuz it was accidental he was [TS]

  accidental finally today e yl is esta [TS]

  that's Casey less and a RC own a RM ante [TS]

  Marco Arment are [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  all right [TS]

  Marco tell me about your home security [TS]

  experiences of late a lot of bike [TS]

  thieves are stalking his house these [TS]

  days [TS]

  gets a new bike every day this is a [TS]

  honey pot for bike thieves well if you [TS]

  would have asked me before I had this [TS]

  experience which company is best at AI [TS]

  type problems you know I would have said [TS]

  you know Apple is not so good or day I [TS]

  type problems you know and Google is the [TS]

  best right or something like that you [TS]

  probably Google to be the best this is a [TS]

  turn out Logitech is the best we were [TS]

  you know we were leaving our home for an [TS]

  extended time and we had the bright idea [TS]

  you know what let's put up some security [TS]

  cameras so that we can see if anybody [TS]

  breaks into our house or whatever or we [TS]

  could just check on things make sure [TS]

  that like you know see if there's like a [TS]

  tree branch that lands in our front yard [TS]

  or anything weird like that [TS]

  let's just put up so a couple of cameras [TS]

  and give us peace of mind while we are [TS]

  away for a while I did some research and [TS]

  and it did appear from my research and [TS]

  the world of home security cameras or [TS]

  just yeah just video home video cameras [TS]

  or security cameras at all it leads into [TS]

  this community of ultra paranoid crazy [TS]

  gun people pretty quickly neat so this [TS]

  is a world that I have avoided for some [TS]

  time because it just it starts getting [TS]

  into this weird like paranoia community [TS]

  of craziness that I don't respond well [TS]

  to or want to be a part of I'm sorry I [TS]

  didn't want something that was going to [TS]

  be like too crazy too complicated you [TS]

  know I could I could host things myself [TS]

  in my own house using my craziness and [TS]

  have IP cameras that recorded to it [TS]

  using all sorts of crazy hideous [TS]

  software packages that can do this thing [TS]

  for you or you can just you know buy one [TS]

  of the cameras that comes with some kind [TS]

  of online retainer retain service for [TS]

  the archive that's basically streams all [TS]

  the video to their web hosting thing and [TS]

  you pay per month to have like [TS]

  a certain amount of retention of video [TS]

  there like you know ten days or a week [TS]

  or whatever else and it pretty much led [TS]

  me to the best ones were the nest cams [TS]

  formerly the drop cams now its nest cam [TS]

  which is owned by Google or alphabet I [TS]

  don't even can't even keep track anymore [TS]

  but who cares don't buy Google and nest [TS]

  cams advertise of his wonderful features [TS]

  like being able to recognize people in [TS]

  the frame and be able to like only alert [TS]

  you when it sees a person in the frame [TS]

  and not just like a leaf blowing by or a [TS]

  moth or something and and you know and [TS]

  in addition to all the AI stuff everyone [TS]

  pretty much agreed that the nest camera [TS]

  has had the best video quality of pretty [TS]

  much anything out there and they could [TS]

  see better in the dark and stuff like [TS]

  that so I thought okay if the only [TS]

  downside of the nest cams seems to be [TS]

  the cost well I'll pay more upfront for [TS]

  something good if it really is better so [TS]

  let's give them a try so I got two of [TS]

  the advanced ones for inside the new [TS]

  crazy IQ ones where the first review is [TS]

  Merlyn telling you that you can't rotate [TS]

  the image and I completely agree with [TS]

  him by the way that is BS and then I got [TS]

  two of the regular outdoor nest cam [TS]

  outdoor ones four for the outdoor the [TS]

  outside you don't know you don't know [TS]

  this yet but on an upcoming rekt if I [TS]

  talk about my purchase of the self-same [TS]

  Nest IQ camera oh yeah I argue with [TS]

  Merlin about his review of it so I won't [TS]

  go over it all here but anyway I [TS]

  actually have one of these as well [TS]

  okay I cannot believe how incredibly [TS]

  crappy these cameras are the picture [TS]

  quality is not great I can't believe [TS]

  this is the best that we can do every [TS]

  phone in the world it could does better [TS]

  than these cameras for video quality so [TS]

  I can't believe that this is what the [TS]

  best we can do the online streaming of [TS]

  these videos from Google like from nest [TS]

  this is a Google company the online [TS]

  streaming is laggy and crappy beyond the [TS]

  interface to browsing the videos is [TS]

  horrendously clunky and crappy you're [TS]

  talking about it from the from the web [TS]

  or from the app both they're both there [TS]

  harness and clunky in different ways but [TS]

  they're both horrendous and clunky the [TS]

  eeeh the ATLA in a typical nest you know [TS]

  the I've had nest thermostats for a [TS]

  while it's one of the reasons I decide [TS]

  to do this as well I already have a nest [TS]

  account I already have nest devices I [TS]

  already have the nest app set up on my [TS]

  phone in my wife's phone so it [TS]

  be trivial to add this and then I don't [TS]

  have to deal with anyone else's crappy [TS]

  apps I at least you know you know the [TS]

  devil you know you know getting all set [TS]

  up you know it was it was fine you know [TS]

  I was disappointed but by all this all [TS]

  the quality the ass and everything then [TS]

  it came time for them to actually do [TS]

  their do their job and alert me when [TS]

  they saw people in certain spots in the [TS]

  frame these things are the stupidest [TS]

  things I've ever seen [TS]

  there have been apps for the Mac forever [TS]

  that like you can use the built-in it [TS]

  webcam on the Mac to do similar things [TS]

  like this did be like a little security [TS]

  camera and stuff I'm pretty sure those [TS]

  apps that I use like 10 years ago to try [TS]

  that out we're better at more advanced [TS]

  than Google with their advanced AI and [TS]

  everything and nest it is so crappy at [TS]

  trying to recognize what is a person and [TS]

  what isn't even with their highest end [TS]

  camera even with their highest and i q-- [TS]

  service that you're paying every month [TS]

  for their terrible it thinks everything [TS]

  is a person I guess no one a Google [TS]

  tested the fact that maybe Sun might be [TS]

  in the frame sometimes like maybe you [TS]

  might have windows that lets some Sun in [TS]

  and so throughout the day the pattern of [TS]

  light on the floor will slowly move that [TS]

  they think is a person every time they [TS]

  think no motion at all as a person I [TS]

  have one that includes the view of the [TS]

  street in front of my house in the [TS]

  corner of the frame every single time a [TS]

  car passes by it says you're in front [TS]

  yard camera thinks a saw a person they [TS]

  are horrendous [TS]

  it is totally useless because I have to [TS]

  turn down all the alert thresholds [TS]

  because everything it sees every bit of [TS]

  motion every leaf that blows by every [TS]

  time the Sun slightly moves as it does [TS]

  every day every single thing it sees it [TS]

  thinks is a person I am stunned at how [TS]

  bad these are and I can't like I [TS]

  expected so much more from Google [TS]

  because they are supposed to be good at [TS]

  this stuff they're supposed to be like [TS]

  the leaders of the world in image [TS]

  recognition and intelligence in these [TS]

  kinds of ways and the fact that it works [TS]

  so horrendously you and I I'll even help [TS]

  it out I'd be like all right fine I [TS]

  don't care [TS]

  if there's a person in my front yard [TS]

  we'll leave that alone how about just [TS]

  tell me if there's a person on my front [TS]

  porch [TS]

  here's a little rectangle I'll draw I'll [TS]

  draw you the pork you can tell where it [TS]

  is tell me if you see a person in this [TS]

  area nope still everytime like you know [TS]

  a leaf blows by oh we think we saw a [TS]

  person you know the Sun moves here's a [TS]

  person nope nope it's never a person I I [TS]

  give Apple a full credit now I thought [TS]

  all these years Apple needs to catch up [TS]

  to Google with image recognition turns [TS]

  out Google image recognition is total [TS]

  garbage [TS]

  and I now apologized to Apple for ever [TS]

  insulting their efforts because my god [TS]

  the rest of the industry is no better [TS]

  fault there but anyway I have the same [TS]

  thing and my expectations were much [TS]

  lower than yours I think cuz I assumed [TS]

  all these security cameras were crap and [TS]

  I was pleasantly surprised mine detected [TS]

  all the faces and I went through the app [TS]

  and told them all the faces that I [TS]

  recognized and it never alerts me again [TS]

  about interfaces that it already knows [TS]

  it tells me when there is a legit person [TS]

  or legit motion which is my dog that's [TS]

  why I have the camera I'm watching my [TS]

  dog during the day it has never sent me [TS]

  a false alert at all now granted it's [TS]

  pointed an internal room and not at a [TS]

  window but the Sun does move and the Sun [TS]

  does move across the room during the [TS]

  time like I agree with you the image [TS]

  quality is not great but people say that [TS]

  this is the best of the security cameras [TS]

  whatever but the fact that I can have it [TS]

  on and [TS]

  on and [TS]

  but not send me alerts when anybody in [TS]

  my family walks through the room but do [TS]

  send me alert like when the dog walker [TS]

  walks in the room because I haven't ad [TS]

  the dog walkers face that's exactly what [TS]

  I want it for and it does it exactly as [TS]

  advertised I've gotten no false alarms [TS]

  then maybe it's missing the the cat [TS]

  burglars that are coming into my house [TS]

  and and it's doing a crappy job there [TS]

  and obviously the apps aren't great and [TS]

  I wish they had more control especially [TS]

  as scheduling interacts with the [TS]

  geofence alerting but the geofence [TS]

  alerting works to when I leave the house [TS]

  with my phone it automatically turns the [TS]

  camera on because I'm away like I was [TS]

  pleasantly surprised as I expected the [TS]

  worst because you read all overviews of [TS]

  all these things they're all terrible [TS]

  and I was pleasantly surprised that the [TS]

  IQ features that I thought were probably [TS]

  gonna be stupid actually make the thing [TS]

  useful for me now I don't have it [TS]

  pointed outside where there's a lot more [TS]

  motion and I'm not trying to look for [TS]

  like people on my porch I'm just [TS]

  pointing it at my dog during the day so [TS]

  it is a more limited use case but for [TS]

  that limited use case I think it's fine [TS]

  it's overpriced and you're right about [TS]

  the camera being not as good as it [TS]

  should be for that price but it's it's [TS]

  doing the job I wanted to do so I'm a [TS]

  little surprised Marco that you didn't [TS]

  dive into the world of I think it's IP [TS]

  cameras I don't know if it's the right [TS]

  terminology but my dad he has a [TS]

  different Synology a much smaller one I [TS]

  think it's a 2-14 play if I'm not [TS]

  mistaken well anyways he wanted to have [TS]

  a view of his driveway because there's [TS]

  not a lot of windows in the house that [TS]

  can show him the view of the driveway [TS]

  and so he put in an IP camera of some [TS]

  designation I'm not entirely clear what [TS]

  it was and wired Ethernet from that [TS]

  camera through the house which [TS]

  admittedly suppe no I'm not trying to [TS]

  just fluff over that but he wired it [TS]

  into a Power over Ethernet hub or switch [TS]

  or whatever again I'm talking a little [TS]

  outside my comfort zone here and then [TS]

  when subtly bringing this back around it [TS]

  is now that that camera is plugged into [TS]

  in a figurative sense plugged into the [TS]

  Synology so the Synology is watching the [TS]

  camera and taking taking recordings of [TS]

  the camera etc etc and there's software [TS]

  on the Synology that it's built exactly [TS]

  for this and so since you have the [TS]

  Synology sitting in the house I'm a [TS]

  little bit surprised you didn't go that [TS]

  route because I don't see the IQ [TS]

  in the head camera you know it's just a [TS]

  camera and nothing more so like John for [TS]

  you it certainly would not have worked [TS]

  but if you're just pointing it out the [TS]

  outside world it might have solved the [TS]

  problem pretty well if and this is a big [TS]

  if you're willing to get an Ethernet [TS]

  cable to it well and I mean the main [TS]

  reason I didn't look at solutions like [TS]

  that I mean in the past when I've had [TS]

  like the duct camera on the back girls [TS]

  I've actually had a few I I have a two I [TS]

  think that and and so I I know this [TS]

  world slightly and and by trying to do [TS]

  this world with those that turned me off [TS]

  so much to that world that when it came [TS]

  time we wanted to do this first of all [TS]

  we had this idea to do this like a few [TS]

  days before like we were gonna leave [TS]

  like a week before it's like I didn't [TS]

  have a lot of time so I got you know III [TS]

  can't it was just kind of blessing like [TS]

  I can't spend a lot of time on the [TS]

  solution of this problem if we're going [TS]

  to do this I have to do something simple [TS]

  I have to just like throw some money at [TS]

  it and make the problem go away [TS]

  hopefully and that's what we did in [TS]

  retrospect you know the the correct [TS]

  solution of the problem was something we [TS]

  came up with a few days after that which [TS]

  was why don't we just get a safe deposit [TS]

  box at the bank and put expensive stuff [TS]

  in that and it costs way less because [TS]

  like the problem is here's the problem [TS]

  what if somebody breaks into my house [TS]

  and I have a video of that what do I do [TS]

  with that exactly the video of that I'm [TS]

  gonna have is gonna be pretty low [TS]

  quality it might be in the dark so it [TS]

  might just be with the IR camera and [TS]

  it's gonna be a video of some you know [TS]

  burglar whose face is gonna be like 16 [TS]

  pixels total in this video and I'm gonna [TS]

  give it to the police and they're gonna [TS]

  do what exactly with that like it's not [TS]

  it's it's not like I'm gonna be dealing [TS]

  with like the FBI with top notch [TS]

  national databases of criminals and [TS]

  they're gonna be able to swivel their [TS]

  face around like CSI and see oh this is [TS]

  this criminal it's gonna be like some [TS]

  some you know crazy desperate person [TS]

  like it's not gonna be like I'm not [TS]

  gonna be able to like get my stuff back [TS]

  with this it's totally useless like I'm [TS]

  buying this with the idea this will [TS]

  somehow keep my stuff safer or I'll have [TS]

  some recourse if someone steals all my [TS]

  stuff but that's really probably not [TS]

  true in practice like [TS]

  it's fine doing it to find out if your [TS]

  house is flooding or if a tree branch [TS]

  found something or a raccoon is somehow [TS]

  penetrated your home and is is busily [TS]

  shredding every one of your cereal boxes [TS]

  or someone writing well you can have a [TS]

  neighbor come by and shoot out of the [TS]

  house with a broom I don't think it's so [TS]

  much I mean for theft I know they might [TS]

  be called security camera I mean [TS]

  obviously I'm using mine to look at my [TS]

  dog to make sure my dog has an escape [TS]

  that's pen and you know isn't freaking [TS]

  out and peeing and pooping all over the [TS]

  house like you know peace of mind but [TS]

  definitely not for theft although I do [TS]

  have the the ring stick up cam like the [TS]

  ring non doorbell camera I've been using [TS]

  that pick it to because someone did [TS]

  steal one of my I think it's my second [TS]

  gen iPod Touch was kind of a shame they [TS]

  stole that out of mine oh yeah I [TS]

  remember that mhm and so now I have a [TS]

  camera on that dead zone and of course [TS]

  that means nothing will ever happen [TS]

  again but you know that one that one's [TS]

  pretty good with the alerts - it sends [TS]

  me an alert at work when like the FedEx [TS]

  guy comes because I use the FedEx app to [TS]

  tell them for one delivery to deliver my [TS]

  packages to a different location than my [TS]

  front door and now for every FedEx [TS]

  package they delivered to a location [TS]

  that is not my front door and so every [TS]

  time they walk by that camera yeah oh a [TS]

  package is arriving and there's the [TS]

  person and you know you see the [TS]

  landscapers and stuff like that so it [TS]

  works okay like but I have no illusions [TS]

  about security it's more like knowing oh [TS]

  hey did that package come or not like I [TS]

  don't think I even have notifications on [TS]

  for it I can just go to the app and say [TS]

  oh did that package come today scroll [TS]

  scroll oh yeah there's the guy that is [TS]

  the only use my found for these so far [TS]

  it's not about security it's about [TS]

  basically showing me things are ok I can [TS]

  see that my staff hasn't been broken [TS]

  into as far as I know I can see that [TS]

  like there isn't a package sitting on my [TS]

  porch for two weeks the model of the [TS]

  inside of your house like in Ocean's [TS]

  eleven spoilers right yeah I actually [TS]

  did see that like it's mostly for that [TS]

  or you know like my house is like not [TS]

  flooded or on fire like that that's [TS]

  basically what I want to know is like [TS]

  stuff like that but that's pretty much [TS]

  all it's good for and I'm I'm quite [TS]

  disappointed in the in the usefulness of [TS]

  the rest of the system and the accuracy [TS]

  of things like the face recognition and [TS]

  people recognition and everything was [TS]

  like [TS]

  I probably could have gotten by with a [TS]

  much simpler setup like an iPhone with [TS]

  like a timer that would capture a [TS]

  picture every day and send it up to [TS]

  Dropbox or something like that like that [TS]

  would have probably been just as useful [TS]

  it would have caused way less I used to [TS]

  like my wife was looking at and she said [TS]

  asked if my daughter had left her [TS]

  bathing suit at home but she could see [TS]

  it like it on the counter like after [TS]

  every was gone and we were all at work [TS]

  the kids were all I can't it's like did [TS]

  she leave her bathing suit because I see [TS]

  it there on the like zoom in zoom and [TS]

  enhance the that's baby bottom she [TS]

  forgot to pack it you know it's I mean [TS]

  I'm glad I only have one of them like [TS]

  and if we didn't have for the door I [TS]

  wouldn't wanna cuz I don't like the idea [TS]

  of you know recording devices recording [TS]

  the inside of her house and uploading it [TS]

  to the Internet in general cuz I don't [TS]

  trust that you know which is why for the [TS]

  most of the time I have it off like we [TS]

  have it all for her home which seems [TS]

  silly it's like oh you're home upstairs [TS]

  asleep don't you want to catch the cat [TS]

  burglars but I mean probably not like I [TS]

  just don't want video of the inside of [TS]

  my house being uploaded anywhere ever so [TS]

  it's mostly only on when there is nobody [TS]

  in the house yeah during during like the [TS]

  week that we were there before we [TS]

  actually left when we had these things [TS]

  set up we wouldn't [TS]

  I kept the indoor ones off until we [TS]

  actually left like only the outdoor ones [TS]

  I kept running thinking this evening [TS]

  what if someone brings in behalf but [TS]

  it's like we've lived there for like ten [TS]

  years and no one's broken into the house [TS]

  ever like my rule is if anybody ever [TS]

  breaks into my house we're gonna move [TS]

  like I can't live with that stress if [TS]

  we're in a place but that's a real thing [TS]

  that's a real thing everywhere though [TS]

  like there is no place you can move [TS]

  except for an island tropical island [TS]

  where you're the only resident and there [TS]

  are no boats like because where are you [TS]

  gonna go like oh we're in a high crime [TS]

  area there is no like the lowest crime [TS]

  area you go to is like you get richer [TS]

  and richer people and those are prime [TS]

  targets for theft there's not a lot of [TS]