Hello Internet

H.I. #86: Banana Republic


  okay is not cutesy yeah you have not

  understood what Icarus no uncle wouldn't

  be cute

  oka would be like there are the cash

  bastard have you lose the cash bastard

  yeah yeah I paid I paid for my toes with

  the cash bastard hmm I'm thinking like

  akka is is like the ha for getting the

  word but like the Japanese word for

  cuteness that a thousand people will put

  it in the comments no awkwardness is

  very masculine and it's very unrefined

  not always obscene but someone who's

  aqua is very likely to use a lot of

  swear words haka in my head it feels

  like a koala with big eyes that's what

  aqua feels like really oh no you have

  not understood okay I'm gonna improve

  your education on that with some

  materials I think I like this definition

  of ARCA much better oka is like

  Australian cuteness we have talked a

  little bit about Disney we were talking

  about the fastpasses

  which yes I don't even want to get into

  it but boy did I discover that fast

  passes work different everywhere they

  were different in different Disney parks

  we got explained in the reddit all of

  the various algorithms that exist with

  fast passes everywhere in the world and

  I left feeling ten times more confused

  than it had started but I am

  appreciative to everybody who wrote in

  all that stuff but it's like holy hell

  fast passes are complicated that must be

  a in the top 10 or top 20 of most fed

  back things we've ever got and I

  understand maybe we made some mistakes

  and if you want to understand it just go

  to the subreddit from that previous

  episode and knock yourself out

  fill your books but one thing I did

  notice is obviously a lot of people who

  work for Disney listen to hello internet

  because a lot of them got in touch and

  one thing which I was obviously aware of

  before and was emphasized by these

  messages and I just wonder what you

  think about it is the fact that Disney

  call their staff cast members this is

  like obviously a very Disney thing in

  there I think they're known for it and

  the staff seem to like it too because

  they always like referring to themselves

  as cast members what do you think of


  alright are you giggling already baby

  because I know what I'm talking

  we will never discuss this but I know

  you well enough to think you must have

  used on this and I think that will

  entertain me

  I don't have use okay sort of do it cozy

  day because this kind of crap I hate

  when businesses do when it's like oh

  we're a family and you're a guest in our

  company here coming to visit us and the

  like false familiarity and the false

  chumminess it really rubs me the wrong

  way yeah except somehow somehow the

  magic Disney Tinkerbell pixie dust has

  gotten into my brain and I feel like I'm

  perfectly okay with the Disney staff

  being called cast members I'm perfectly

  happy with probably in Disney corporate

  lingo than referring to the guests like

  as guests right as opposed to customers

  right so I feel like I'm perfectly fine

  with this with Disney I'm not sure there

  are very many other companies in the

  whole world I would be okay with this

  but I'm gonna give it a thumbs up I'm

  perfectly fine with it all right

  disappointed Brady do you think I'd be

  angrier I did actually I'm a bit

  disappointed I didn't think you'd give

  Disney such a pass I didn't think he'd

  be so suckered by the corporate behemoth

  that is Disney into thinking it's like

  Tinkerbell and stuff

  isn't that what Disney is aren't they

  small and vulnerable and charming like

  Tinkerbell and you just have to believe

  in them otherwise they'll go away and

  not one of the world's largest companies

  yeah that's why I think it's funny like

  it totally shouldn't work on me but for

  some reason it just does tell me why

  that term though why cast members why

  would that have been chosen as the way

  to describe staff of the theme park I

  just realized is this supposed to refer

  to staff in addition to the people in

  the costumes like does cast members

  refer to everybody no I think Pete like

  the person assuring you onto the roller

  coaster is a cast member okay but what

  what about the guy doing paperwork in an

  office on the park now I don't know now

  you've got me wondering is that guy a

  cast member but see the thing is I feel

  like I could actually make an argument

  for him being a cast member because if

  you're putting on a big show and it

  feels like a Disney park is kind of like

  a big show even though it's really a

  machine lets you feed the mouse it's

  kind of like a big show

  so like on a Broadway show are members

  of the crew are they called cast members

  - I don't know if they are not I don't

  know I imagined all the public facing

  people were cast members not just the

  person that dressed as Mickey I will

  give Disney a pass for every person that

  a guest would see in the park I think

  that's okay to call them cast members

  even if you're the person like saying

  okay you go and sit in that seat on the

  roller coaster yes I think I'm gonna

  give Disney a pass on that one but only

  Disney okay don't even think about it

  Six Flags you're not getting a pass on

  this one for me all right I'm only gonna

  give it to Disney I think that's the way

  this works

  Amaya hello Internet cast member yes I

  think you are Brady I am however I think

  our corporate policy should not be to

  use these terms like I think you are we

  were better described as a co-host of

  the show don't you think that's a more

  accurate way to describe it do you think

  describing me as a co-host rightly or

  wrongly is belittling like because if

  someone said they were the co-pilot that

  doesn't sound as awesome as saying like

  you're the captain or you're the pilot

  the other copilot makes it sound like

  you're the junior guy in the right seat

  who occasionally gets to land if there's

  no wind and stuff now I know you don't

  describe yourself differently you also

  call yourself a co-host but do you think

  is the term co-host sounds like you're

  the vice president because I say

  sometimes I'm the co-host of a podcast

  called hello Internet does that make me

  sound less than if I said I was a host I

  think what you've done here is that

  you've done like an anchoring effect

  that by mentioning pilots which is one

  of the cases where the copilot does mean

  something else

  mm I can't wait to hear from all the

  pilots co-pilots they should be called

  sub pilots it's not the co-pilot

  because the captain is right that's the

  way that works well I don't want to be

  called the sub host of hello intimate I

  wouldn't mind being called the vice host

  no but that's worse I know it's worse

  but I just think it sounds funny no

  that's way worse you can't be the vice

  host of the show that makes no sense at

  all that's what makes if you ever

  incapacitated I would be the host no 3d

  it's not how this works these titles

  work so I think you have anchored it in

  bringing up maybe the one or very few

  places where Co actually means sub

  that's fair enough I said I see you

  you're saying and I agree with what

  you're saying but I still think Co does

  have a slight belittling effect because

  it says you don't do it on your own like

  if you were the co first person to step

  on top of Mount Everest as opposed to

  being the first person it's not as

  awesome you've kind of lost a bit of

  your glory because it's not all yours I

  will totally grant that if Hillary and

  Eva wrists held hands and stepped tents

  on the mountain or Tenzing at the same


  Tenzing siffredi right it would be

  amazing if the first person on top of

  Mount Everest also happened to be caught

  Everest yeah like George Everest or

  whatever that's right that's how it's

  named after but he never climbed it well

  I'm spinning a tale of magic here that

  if Hillary and Eva is a held hands and

  stepped on top at the same time yeah or

  if Armstrong and come on Zizi

  I'm strong and Buzz Aldrin Aldrin oh

  thank you thank you like okay I should

  have got that one I should have gotten

  that if they held hands and jumped onto

  the moon at the same time yeah like I

  would be going back through the footage

  and going frame by frame like whose foot

  landed first right like I'm gonna

  disallow this notion that your co first

  men on the moon you're the co first

  climbers of the mountain that's not how

  this works this is a debate that centers

  around the climbing of men Everest it

  was always an often discussed topic as

  to who actually led the way and stepped

  on the summit of Mount Everest first out

  of Hillary and Tenzing it was like a

  huge debate and they never wanted to

  answer the question and talk about it

  because for all the sort of people of

  Nepal they like to think it was Tenzing

  and for people through the Commonwealth

  I think they liked to think it was

  Hillary and it wasn't until one of

  Hillary's late autobiographies came out

  that he actually put in writing that he

  was actually in front and got to the top

  first according to him

  tensing's dead so he couldn't argue with

  it but Hillary's dead too now by the way

  but okay yeah time to wait right yeah

  yeah we all know was a Sherpa right

  that's the first person on the top of

  the mountain let's the era clearly gonna

  be the case that's not what Hillary said

  in his book but anyway

  I don't even know how we got onto this

  topic we were talking about Disney cast

  members the way we got onto this topic

  is as always the Brady wandering through

  the valley of misplaced metaphors and

  analogies yeah and I think yes you are

  correct that being the co person to

  discover a thing or get to a place is a

  ridiculous notion yeah I don't think Co

  in the in the world of podcasts has any

  kind of sub meaning yeah because I think

  the most directly comparable thing is

  like companies where people Co found a

  company because you're not getting to a

  place you're making a thing together but

  even then and as I said it's still

  awesome to found a company but isn't it

  more awesome to be the only founder

  rather than a co-founder like saying I'm

  the co-founder of something means mmm I

  wonder who like had more of the ideas

  and who was cleverer and who's richer

  and like it just shows those seeds there

  CONUS it's like hmm you say you're the

  co-discoverer of that comic but does

  that mean the other guy actually saw it

  first and this is just a technical

  reason we have to call you the

  co-discoverer you know what's really

  funny about this Brady I think there is

  something I have recently really gotten

  an understanding of with you that I

  haven't had over these lo these many

  years hmm which is your competitiveness

  you've mentioned to me about your

  competitiveness and you we've talked

  about it on the show sometimes like at

  you're competitive person but I feel

  like I have only recently actually

  understood this on a more deep level and

  somehow this conversation about the

  nature of co versus solo yeah I feel

  like I get this deep down this is a

  question of competitiveness and Brady

  there cannot be ties right someone must

  win and isn't it better to win than to

  tie I think that's what's going on here

  Brady I think that's my interpretation

  of what's going on in your Brady mind I

  don't think that's true like in the case

  of hello Internet I mean hello internet

  was your idea you came up with a you did

  all the work at start so like I would

  consider if we had to say who is the

  junior person of course it would be me

  like I wouldn't doubt it for a second so

  it's not like I'm thinking ah why am i

  Co it's not fair like I have no problem

  with that it just gets me thinking about

  the word Co I think we are we are

  because Brady no we're doing here yeah

  we're building a beautiful thing

  together in the last episode you

  mentioned that you had a new wedding

  ring that your wife got for you because

  your previously chubby fingers have been

  replaced with new alive 55,000 that's

  exactly the way I phrased it yeah yes my

  chubby chubby hands so as someone who

  doesn't like to hoard objects I didn't

  get the chance to ask because the topic

  sort of moved on what have you done with

  your old wedding ring the original uh I

  don't know where it is all I know is

  that it is somewhere under the aegis of

  my wife's protection I can she has it

  somewhere it still exists it's in the

  house someplace it hasn't been thrown

  into Mount Doom or anything like that no

  it hasn't been thrown into Mount Doom I

  don't think I could throw it into Mount

  Doom I would I would stand upon the

  precipice and resist wear that the case

  speaking of dropping things into Mount

  Doom you know I left my Segway so I'm

  just gonna go with that you know how I

  talk about how I'm invincible when it

  comes to dropping phones and I can drop

  I literally have dropped my phone off a

  cliff and it didn't break mm-hmm I was

  listening to the last podcast of ours

  because I like to check to see what made

  it into the final episode about me

  saying how invincible I was dropping my

  phone when I bumped into a lady I knew

  at the park walking dogs so I stopped

  the podcast and was started talking to

  her and while I was fiddling with my

  headphones and trying to put my phone

  away I dropped my phone onto the

  Ashville path we were standing on and it

  landed facedown and went bang and the

  woman oh my goodness oh no and I said to

  her before I even pick up my phone I

  said don't worry there's no chance it's

  broken I leaned over turned around the

  face pristine absolutely pristine she

  was like oh my goodness how did you know

  it wasn't broken

  i lo my phone never breaks no case or

  anything bang I think with that story

  all of the credit goes to your

  superpowers hmm and none of it goes to

  the hundreds of materials engineers

  who've been working on the magic

  quote glass that isn't glass at all

  that's on the front of those screens but

  my wife sneezes on her iPhone and it

  shatters into a thousand pieces that

  sounds a little bit overblown that's a

  description what skirt sounded good they

  did it it does sound good

  it would make a fantastic Android

  commercial like they hire here wife she

  sneezes on the phone into a thousand


  hey what they've since then and since I

  last saw you which wasn't long ago I've

  changed my iphone Oh help me Brady you

  were using the iPhone se mm-hm and you

  have you've changed now I'm trying at

  the moment the the newest one plus

  you're trying the plus I am I'm trying

  it I can't remember now cuz I feel like

  we've switched phones a bunch of times

  and though in the course of the podcast

  have you ever used a plus phone before

  no it's my first plus okay what do you

  think of the plus pros and cons okay

  pros and cons it's a hell of a thing to

  go to after the SE it is an occasionally

  I go back to my se for certain things

  still and it does feel very small now


  of course but I'm undecided I'm gonna

  stick with it for a while because it's

  really expensive and I paid a lot of

  money for us I'm gonna use it for a

  while yeah this is that cheap no say I'm

  kind of stuck with it now but it's good

  for some things the main reason I got it

  was because I found myself watching so

  much a video on my phone that I wanted a

  bigger screen for video watching like

  whether it's just watching sports

  highlights or graphs of videos that

  people are editing with me

  professionally and stuff and for that

  I'm liking it it's nice to quickly you

  know watch the goals that have been

  scored in the football that day on on

  the biggest ground but the reaching

  around and navigating the screen with my

  mortal human fingers which I don't think

  I have overly small hands but there

  certainly no match for the plus screen

  nobody has hands that are a match

  smartphone it's awesome no man can do it

  only Giants I like using my phone while

  I'm walking like you know walking down

  the street and you don't want to use two

  hands when you're doing that so I'm a

  big one-handed phone user I find it very

  hard to switch to two hand phone use I

  just don't think it's a fit for me and I

  don't think the plus is suited to

  one-handed phone users so unless I get

  down with the kids and start becoming a

  two-handed phone user I'm gonna continue

  to be frustrated by is that what the

  kids do Brady the kids are the

  two-handed phone users a parent that's

  what someone told me apparently that's a

  young person's game it's two-handed

  phone use well I do have a little bit of

  good news for you because I am running

  the beta version of the next operating

  system on my phone currently on my plus

  size phone hmm and I've sent you a

  picture that they have finally conceded

  and acknowledged that this phone is too

  big for people's hands and there is a

  scrunched over to the left keyboard in

  the iPhone plus that makes one-handed

  texting easier to do see the one thing I

  do want is a big keyboard because I was

  having problems I'm a small phone of

  miss typing all the time I felt like I

  was making more typos so one of my

  keyboard buttons further apart that's

  the one thing I don't want okay then I

  have no good news for you Brady I'm

  sorry I thought you were going to be

  happy the top of the phone is just like

  a wasteland mm-hmm that I can't get to

  right I'm using the plus you know I

  haven't been happy with any of the

  phones really for like what four years

  now with this rounded design that I've

  just been very sad and frustrated with

  it is also frustrating that app

  designers and everybody keeps putting

  stuff at the top of the phone it's like

  hey yeah that might as well be a hundred

  miles away yeah I can't reach that why

  don't you put all the controls at the

  bottom of the phone the bottom of the

  phone is where the action is yeah I need

  to do a big icon rearrange I know

  there's all these little trick things

  but I need to start putting my go-to

  apps like my Twitter and stuff like that

  down low where my thumb can get to yeah

  if you switch to the big phone you have

  to reverse everything everything that's

  a frequent use that's got to go at the

  bottom yeah like my iMessages maps like

  calendar all of that stuff have got to

  be at the bottom of the phone I need to

  do that and then I'll relearn it in a

  day or two so it is very hard to get rid

  of that muscle memory though yeah I

  almost hate to bring this up Brady but

  you do know the time that we're

  recording this is this is like right

  before new iPhone season are you aware

  of this

  I do but whatever he just couldn't wait

  anymore I don't think I'm gonna like the

  new ones as much like I'm liking them

  less as they go

  so I'm figuring they're gonna do

  something else I don't like on the next

  one you know they'll remove whatever

  ports are left I would say no we don't

  think screens are the way of the future

  everything's just gonna be smelled now

  like I don't know you never know what

  they're gonna do so get in before they

  ruin it more ill if the rumors are did

  we believe they're taking away the home

  button on the next phone yeah

  we'll see but uh I wish you were happier

  with your phone I wish I was happier

  with my phone but it is a hell of a

  transition going from the little one to

  the big one

  you've got to reverse absolutely

  everything I'm sorry that the smouched

  over keyboard is of no assistance to you


  iPhones they've been frustrating for the

  last four years yeah hopefully less

  frustrating soon but I'm not necessarily

  holding my breath on that one

  you remind me of like those football

  fans whose team loses every season and

  at the start of every season they're

  like this is the one this is the year

  we're gonna get it together and go all

  the way and then yet again disappointed

  I am simply saying I am hopeful about

  the next phone I'm not expecting to be

  happy okay we'll see in a in a couple

  short months but big phones too big

  little phones too outdated middle phone

  both too big and too small that's the

  situation oh and they're all made of

  soap I've actually put a case on this

  one believe it or not why have you put a

  case on these phones Brady you don't

  have to worry about dropping them at all

  you have some kind of superpower you can

  confidently tell ladies in the street

  don't worry my phone it's unbroken yeah

  but the problem is the longer that goes

  the more disappointed I'll be when I

  finally break one so now I'm taking

  steps to minimize breakage so I can keep

  your streak yeah and like not only is

  this one soapy but because I can't hold

  it the way I like with my safe one hand

  one finger underneath back up mm-hmm I

  just know that more drops are imminent

  so need a bit of friction

  I'm not worried Brady I have confidence

  in you from now until the end of time no

  broken phones

  that's the Brady promise this episode of

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  so Brady last time you mentioned that

  you'd seen the Tim's come up with a

  bunch of words to describe their actions

  yep there was Tim foolery yes there was

  Tim work there was Tim work that's right

  a bunch of these different words going

  around that the Tim's like I've seen

  really run with this with many different

  variations like a thousand let a

  thousand Tim prefixes bloom as far as

  words or concerns seems to be what the

  audience is done yeah and they've really

  build with that there was like an

  explosion of hello internet creativity

  on the subreddit recently and I just

  wanted to point out that related to all

  of this one of my favorite things that a

  user put together Monken tarus is a

  hello Internet

  pirate flag that I absolutely adore

  because I think it strikes an excellent

  balance of being adorable and

  intimidating I just thought yay what do

  you think of this pirate flag that the

  Tim's have made I do like it's sort of

  like a slightly comic Jolly Roger but

  with a few little hello Internet

  flourishes like the famous gray glasses

  my kind of side pattered hair and like a

  robotic arm and a nail instead of the

  two crossed bones it's worth a look I'm

  sure gray link to it in the show notes

  and I think you're right you sum it up

  right it's like it's the perfect mixture

  of cute yeah it has got a slight menace

  to it like any Jolly Roger does I've got

  to say I really like it it seems like a

  great little logo for Tim mischief that

  occurs it's really greatly put together

  this is one of the reasons why I do love

  having the hello Internet subreddit

  where people just post whatever they're

  working on and I really wanted to draw

  attention to this one because I think

  this is one of my favorite things to

  come out of the show artwork in quite a

  while I really like this flag it's

  adorable and thank you for making it and

  I hope you guys have fun with it it's

  hilarious it was made in the context of

  the recent voting hijinks which we might

  come to later in the show and for that

  reason I like it because I I think it

  was sort of made in the context of when

  you see this flying like when you see

  this coming over the horizon you know

  something is gonna happen that's not

  necessarily good if you don't like

  mischief so I do I do like it as a kind

  of a warning sign like I can just see

  it's striking fear into the heart of

  Wikipedia editors everywhere yeah

  there's an armada of Tim's approaching

  that's what it is


  quick serious one because I know that

  you have been giving me a hard time

  about basically how I'd neglected to CGP

  grey the penguin

  oh yes forgot about her basically until

  we found out about her demise so I was

  trying to make this tragic I was trying

  to make amends for this and I contacted

  the zoo and I said I want to know how

  she died

  like I want details obviously we know

  she died on this trip there this foreign

  trip she was going on to go to another

  zoo mm-hmm yeah we were awaiting that

  penguin autopsy whirring yeah so I was

  kind of I was tenacious I was you know I

  was reminding them I wasn't gonna let

  this one slip through the cracks I said

  I insisted on you know and I said okay

  we'll have someone from like the penguin

  office call you when we know all the

  details so I finally got the coal but

  the coal came like while I was on

  holiday and having a nice time and I was

  just about to go down to the pool and

  like my phone rings and I'm like this is

  I think this was when I was in Greece

  and my phone rings and I'm like duh

  what's this it's a Bristol number I was

  like ah you interrupting my holiday and

  then it was the lady sang out so-and-so

  from Bristol Zoo I'm calling with the

  details of the penguin death it wasn't

  the right time for it so I ended up

  being one of those phone calls I was

  like yep yep yep fine appreciate that

  thank you and now I feel like I can't

  contact them again asking for loads more

  detail because they code me like the

  person called me to give me all the

  details so I feel like I failed again

  basically I like this because it feels

  like what you're basically saying is I

  didn't want this penguin death for which

  I am responsible to be a downer on my

  vacation that's the story that you're

  telling me well it sounds like you're

  the one putting words in people's mouths

  - I would never do such a thing that's

  that's what I did glean because there

  was talk that maybe

  CGP grey the lady penguin had died from

  maybe like some kind of disease or virus

  that exacerbated when the plane travel

  happened but I was told that's not the

  case the penguin just died from like the

  stress of the plane travel there were

  lots of penguins that did it two or

  three died from memory oh he's bad but

  it sounds like it was just like CGP Grey

  Lady ping which wasn't made of a stern

  stuff as some

  the other ones the zoo lady also did

  tell me like you know they're taking

  lessons from this and other measures are

  going to be implemented to make sure

  nothing like this can happen again

  so CTP gray the lady penguin did not die

  in vain it sounds a little bit like

  you're saying that she wasn't hard as

  nails like if she was made of sterner

  stuff she would have survived the

  journey is that what you're saying there

  Brady I'm not gonna sit here on a

  podcast and start bad-mouthing a dead

  penguin I would never try to get you to

  do that that would be ridiculous I'm not

  gonna do that

  penguin and I still feel a bit sad when

  I think about it but I always had a

  feeling that it was like a softer

  penguin compared to the other ones which

  it's you but maybe that's because I felt

  protective of it but like if you were

  gonna ship 20 penguins to another

  country I felt like

  CGP Grey Lady penguin might be the one

  that would have struggled and it turns

  out that was true well I mean this is

  the thing with most animals pets in

  particular we love them but they're all

  just tragedies waiting to happen a

  moment of silence for cgp grey the lady

  penguin alright let's talk a bit about

  shops been going to the shops lately so

  I go to Tesco - supermarket quite a lot

  these days like I go almost every day

  now is like a quick shop rather than

  doing like a one big shop I like just

  going every day and buying two or three

  things and we have talked about self

  checkout before you like it and I don't

  right I have now decided self checkout

  at the shops I go - he's a mug's game I

  see them queuing to use it looking for

  the barcodes on their things and not

  being able to find that they all look


  it takes them ages and meanwhile where I

  go there are like 20 checkouts that are

  staffed usually there's no queue at all

  you'll walk right up to it you don't

  have to have a conversation if you're a

  bit introverted you can just say hello

  they scan your stuff they're so good at

  it because they know

  all the barcodes are because they've

  seen everything before they do it for a

  job they're way better at putting things

  in bags than I am everything so fast and

  now with like contactless payment like

  the interactions even less most of the

  time I think self checkout is bit of a

  mug's game I keep having the feeling

  that this is like a suburban versus

  urban divide because you're a

  description of this I find baffling and

  doesn't match my experience now personal

  preferences about which till to go aside

  like when I think of all the

  supermarket's I go to even the big

  supermarkets around me that I think

  might be more on the scale of what you

  would find in a suburban environment

  yeah they're always the case that it

  looks like the lines with the actual

  checkout people have long lines and

  people with shopping carts filled with

  three four five hundred items in them

  that to me looks like boy I feel sorry

  for you if you have to use the human

  line because this this is the line for I

  have a thousand things that need to be

  checked out yeah whereas the self

  checkout lines they're fast they're

  faster they're smaller like they're

  there's a bazillion machines in the same

  amount of space that you could put like

  a few checkout people so I feel like I

  almost want to go with you on one of

  your holiday excursions to pick up two

  items at the supermarket okay and see

  like what's the situation that Brady's

  working with you see how the other half


  will arrange that I know that we must be

  having different experiences how does

  this country mouse go shopping that's

  what I'm trying to find out here it

  doesn't make any sense to me your

  description of what's occurring but I

  have to say while I am traditionally the

  advocate of the old-fashioned way of

  doing things and you are more the modern

  man my goodness

  contactless payment with cards what a

  life-changing thing that is how quickly

  I've become used to her how much I

  resent having to even put my pin number

  in when I'm buying things it is such a

  wonderful innovation it's a much bigger

  step up from going from money to pin

  cards which is I don't think much of as

  a step but there's a step up from

  putting your PIN into contactless is

  fabulous and places that don't take

  contactless I think a barbaric and they

  have to lift the limits on these things

  like you know if

  I spend 40 or 50 pounds on something

  that's like I know you can't use

  contactless I'm like what what are you


  since sane I need to use my contactless

  I don't want to touch things I don't

  want to press buttons I just want to do

  the thing I think it's fabulous

  literally just before this show was

  starting I was running an errand to pick

  up a few things from the local

  supermarket for the house and the total

  bill went over 30 pounds which at this

  store is the limit for using contact

  lists yeah and it was something like 33

  pounds or like just barely over and I

  caught myself

  unfortunately there's no self checkout

  at this thing I have to actually use a

  person but I caught myself looking at

  the guy and almost saying just wring it

  as two separate things so I can tap

  twice like because it's also about like

  I don't want to touch your buttons that

  have been touched by a thousand people

  and the contact list is so pleasing like

  you just Boop Bucky it just goes like I

  use it on my phone or my watch all the

  time it's the greatest thing in the

  whole world I'm with you 100%

  I absolutely love the contactless but

  this is a case where I feel like I have

  become so spoiled by it as well and I

  did not realize until I had spent all of

  this time in America this past summer

  because in my world in all of the places

  that I go I'm essentially 99.9% of the

  time using contactless payment because

  everything is under 30 or 40 pounds and

  every single store that I go to takes it

  and I can just use my watch or my phone

  everywhere like I'm so ridiculously

  spoiled and then going to America it

  feels like stepping back in time a

  hundred years when they ask you for your

  signature on the card to do payments it

  feels like why don't you bring out that

  machine from my childhood where you like

  put the credit card in the thing and

  then you go over it and then I get like

  a piece of yellow paper and you take two

  pieces I don't even know what the hell

  that machine is like what is this thing

  even doing I don't understand how any

  payment is getting processed by this

  analogue thing yeah I never understood

  that and you need that there rosetta

  stone to read what's on the

  bit of paper because it's so hard to

  decipher I mean I guess thinking it

  through that machine must be a

  mechanical version of an IOU like is

  that what those things were obviously

  being sent off to like some head office


  how could anyone read those curb and

  helping paper things they were awful

  it's ridiculous but that but that's what

  it felt like in America where I'm using

  my card and they're like oh you have to

  sign for this thing and I'm like

  surprised and angry every single time

  that I have I have to sign and the

  signing is is also like it's just such a

  ridiculous farce like you're not

  checking my signature yeah right I had a

  credit card that like four years went

  unsigned before anybody ever commented

  on it right like some picky rules

  following person's like well you have to

  sign the card but no the stuff just

  feels it feels so arcane and so

  ridiculous and I felt so happy coming

  back to London and like we had

  contactless payments everywhere

  beep-beep-beep like it just works and

  there's a thing in America that I don't

  I had heard people describe but I sort

  of didn't believe it because obviously I

  know Americans I listen to podcasts that

  have Americans on them and people

  complain about these credit card

  machines that are being rolled out in

  America and I heard people complain

  about them and I just like what is the

  problem with this but there are these

  like weird clunky gigantic credit card

  machines that I guess are supposed to be

  the American version of the little

  wireless terminals that everybody in

  Europe uses except there they're like

  twice as big and huge and confusing and

  what is baffling to me is that when you

  make a successful payment they make a

  noise like and they have like an angry

  beeping noise which is confirmation that

  everything went okay right it's like

  everything's great alarm like it

  confused me every single time I used it

  and I was in a bunch of different places

  in America and I came across them

  and a whole bunch of different states I

  was like oh ma why are you so behind the

  times with payments like why are you so

  bad at this there's a solution for

  contactless new payments these little

  machines that we use over here like why

  don't we use these in America I don't

  understand I don't understand it all it

  was infuriating

  okay people here we go I'm gonna ask you

  some questions and just answer yes or no

  in your head no out loud because you

  might get some funny looks

  do you ever travel in planes trains or

  automobiles do you ever walk places do

  you ever just lay in bed at night do you

  listen to podcasts now if you answered

  yes to any one of those questions that I

  think you might like audiobooks and if

  you're like audiobooks today's sponsor

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  trial at audible.com slash hallo

  internet a free audiobook shall I

  recommend one I think I shall today it's

  going to be Conclave by Robert Harris

  this is a fictional account of the vote

  for a new pope and for anyone fascinated

  by what happens in the Sistine Chapel

  when the Vatican when a new Pope's being

  elected this is a great book for you

  plenty of politics intrigue mystery but

  also a really easy listen it really rips

  along I got through this one pretty

  quickly desperate to know what had

  happened next so that's my

  recommendation Conclave but there are

  countless others you may prefer as your

  free audiobook with that 30-day trial I

  know that Tim's on reddit even keep a

  list of previous recommendations from

  the show both from gray and myself so

  maybe check that out that address for

  the free book audible.com slash hallo

  internet and hallo internet is all one

  word they'll also be a link in the show

  description they help us make Hello

  Internet as sponsors but we're also just

  everyday customers and we really like

  them you know that bench

  I sit on sometimes where I have lunch

  where I was sitting a few months ago

  when I saw like someone crash into

  another car and try to sneak away and I


  we've had this quandary about what do i

  do do i dub them in do i leave a note

  that sort of stuff you're wondering how

  much of a Samaritan do you have to be

  mmm is there a Good Samaritan law that

  you need to worry about in this area

  what is the right thing I was sitting on

  that same bench yesterday just minding

  my own business swinging your feet back

  and forth eating a sandwich that's how I

  imagined it in fact that is what I was


  and something caught my eye on the

  ground a little flash of red and silver

  glint ooh and it was a dropped these

  occurred like a Visa debit card with

  contactless payment and everything like

  that and I had the person's name on it

  it was brand-new in pristine condition

  like it looked brand-new and the expiry

  date was like matched the month we're in

  so it made me think maybe it was a brand

  new card so I picked it up and I sort of

  looked around and there was no one

  around so I went bought another sandwich

  with that najin I looked around there

  was no one around and I was like what do

  I do like what are my responsibilities

  here what is the right thing to do with

  this card what would you have done

  hmm it's one of those things that you're

  not entirely educated about best

  practices I'm just pausing here because

  I feel like there is there's some

  version of an old school teacher in my

  head who is like well if you find a

  thing you should take it to a police

  station yeah I guess here's here's a

  complication which you didn't find is

  somebody's wallet no right just the card

  yeah if you find somebody's wallet it

  feels like okay I guess I'll take this

  to the authorities yeah and the police

  have a Lost & Found box in the station

  yeah or they get the new guy to try to

  track down the owner of a wallet in

  between solving homicides like I don't

  know what's gonna I mean to be honest if

  I found someone's wallet I feel like I

  would have enough information to

  probably find that person in 10-15

  minutes and get it back to them you know

  I could google them or if the address

  was nearby I could just walk to their

  house like that seems easier in many

  ways but yes if not I thought they would

  take him to a police station but all I

  had was a

  name my you know mr. Jones and a card if

  you have address information in the

  wallet and that also makes it much

  easier right that's that's a much

  clearer thing to do

  I don't think there's anything in my

  wallet that actually I list my address

  on it like if my wallet was lost someone

  we need to take it to a police station

  yeah you'd have a driver's license or

  anything yeah I don't have a driver's

  license so there's nothing in there with

  with my address on it as far as I know

  yeah but an individual card what we have

  here is something that's on the spectrum

  from how much burden do you feel versus

  personal inconvenience yeah right and a

  wallet feels like it's very far along

  that spectrum of it's horrific ly

  inconvenient for another person to lose

  the wallet so you feel like oh I'm doing

  a great thing by bringing the person the

  wall I'm saving them an enormous amount

  of here like if I happen to me I'd be

  begging for someone to find that rather

  than may have to deal with all of that

  bureaucracy right but a single car yeah

  a single card feels like it's sitting on

  that knife's edge of is the personal

  hassle to me worth this thing yeah or

  like will the police officer laugh me

  out of the station if I bring them a

  single crap like I think they would I

  think if I go in there officer McNulty

  is gonna be like get the hell out of

  here with this yeah with this credit

  cards like why are you wasting my time I

  just take it out of your hand and cut it

  in half with a pair of scissors and say

  thanks for coming that is exactly what I

  expect would happen talking this through

  I think that is what I would think is my

  level of responsibility I would cut it

  in half and leave it at that no further

  Good Samaritan action to be required

  than that okay the question is break

  what did I do

  what did you do I'm a bit reluctant to

  say in case I broke some law or someone

  says I shouldn't have done it well I

  mean we cannot we can just say that this

  is of course a fanciful story

  it was just being told on a podcast yes

  so there were one or two people in my

  vicinity so I did say to them did you

  just drop a card and if they'd said yes

  I would have then said what's your name

  and if they got the name right I would

  have handed to the car what are the last

  four did yeah but no one no one had I

  walked into like the sandwich shop where

  I had gotten my sandwich and I said has

  anyone come in here saying they'd lost a

  cut I don't know what I would have done

  if they said yes cuz I guess I would

  have said - have you got their details I

  wouldn't have given it to st. people at

  the shop

  but they said no and the girl behind the

  checkout said you should probably just

  cut it in half because they probably

  already canceled it there were two

  restaurants right near where it had

  dropped like a Italian restaurant and a

  Chinese restaurant and I did think about

  going in and asking if I should make

  some kind of public announcement because

  there's you know 50 or 60 people so it

  was a good chance that the person who

  dropped up was in the restaurant and

  needed it to like pay for their meal or

  something but I did feel like that was a

  high level of disruption for maybe not

  even success so I decided not to do that

  what I did was I then went back to the

  bench near where I found her

  and I sat there for another 15 20

  minutes just finishing my food and

  faffing around on my phone to see if I

  could see anyone walking around looking

  for a card and no one no one emerged who

  fit that description so then I went home

  and I cut it into lots of small pieces

  with scissors and threw it in the bin

  you didn't shred it Brede you have a

  shredder that can handle a credit card

  know that a shredder I famously bought

  right at the start of hello Internet

  hasn't worked for about two years and I

  haven't replaced it or fixed it it just

  sits under my desk dormant that's very

  sad a number of levels annoys me but I

  yeah anyway let's not go there anyway

  I'm much more interested in the shredder

  underneath your desk taking up your

  precious foot space that you haven't

  fixed after two years it is still there

  I do need to throw it away because I did

  like it when I was running I just got

  greedy and tried to put too many pieces

  of paper in it one day

  it jammed and like no matter what I

  tried to do I couldn't fix it no of

  course that's the call of the paper

  shredder yeah I want to push it to its

  breaking limit right you're never

  satisfied until you get too many pieces

  of paper five six six is for weaklings

  what about seven seven yeah that's for

  co-hosts why not oh yeah that's what

  existence is for shredders it's like

  some kind of hellish torment where no

  matter how much they can eat like you're

  constantly upping the spectrum of like

  oh but you're gonna eat more until it

  breaks I'm sorry that you broke your

  shredder Brady I'm sorry that you had to

  manually cut up this credit card by hand

  it's quite pleasant cutting credit cards

  with scissors because it's like a

  naughty thing like it's quite fun I like

  it I'm glad you got a naughty thrill out

  of cutting up that credit card into

  multiple pieces it must've been very

  exciting for you it's quite a

  pleasurable amount of resistance on the

  scissors when you cut credit card to

  like you don't normally get that level

  of resistance on a cut it's nice

  cutting a credit card is a nice with

  scissors is a pleasant feeling no people

  drop your credit cards around Brady so

  he can get the naughty satisfaction of

  cutting up other people's credit cards I

  will have cut it in half before it even

  hits the ground you'd be like wait wait

  that's mine

  I was bang you past the event horizon

  you're gonna be carrying scissors to

  that Park just just hoping just waiting

  who knows what moral conundrum will

  strike next on Brady's bench and you

  know how you get those park benches

  where it says you know Gladys and Ron

  used to sit here and watch the Sun set

  for 50 years maybe one day they'll put

  like a little metal plaque on the back

  of the bench saying this is where Brady

  saw two cars hit and where he found a

  credit card and like it could become

  famous I don't know if this is a

  national thing or if it's if it's just

  in London but do you have those blue

  badges that are the historical markers

  it's more of a London thing but other

  cities and parts of the UK do keep

  trying to co-opt it so you do see blue

  plaques around the place yeah there's

  historic markers yeah that is a thing

  that exists then where in your town

  you're walking around there's a blue

  plaque and it says Bobby Thorpe inton

  the third yep writer of something you've

  never heard of was born here yeah but

  they're not usually as official outside

  this is a how we could do a whole

  podcast about blue plaques but yeah

  there are a couple Whitney where I live

  but they're not like officially

  sanctioned ones well I guess where I was

  going with this is these blue historical

  plaques that I see all over the place in

  London you can hardly move in London for

  blue plaques

  it's like wading through treacle I do

  feel like hey guys maybe we should tone

  it down a little bit especially there's

  a couple that I love that aren't even

  like oh this famous person was born here

  there's a few that kind of make me laugh

  every time because it's like oh this

  person you never heard of lived in a

  house on this site yeah from 1832 to

  1835 yeah what is this plaque it's like

  a Jane Austen stayed in a room in the

  house for three hours while she was

  smoking the second draft of Pride and

  Prejudice yeah that's what it feels like

  like the bar is just too low for some of

  these things like there's too many of

  them all over the place and I feel like

  the number of times I have any idea who

  the person they're referring to is is

  very small compared to the number of

  total plaques but I was just wondering

  cuz we touched on the idea of Fame last

  time now that you're talking about this

  bench then you clearly want to be made a

  historical object you think Brady that

  after you're dead this is seriously yeah

  you are

  famous enough to get a blue plaque on

  that bench that says this is Brady's


  Brady sat here eating lunch and thinking

  about moral conundrum sometimes great I

  can say without a shadow of a doubt that

  I'm not famous enough to get a blue

  plaque anywhere anything any time to do

  with anything I've ever done I totally

  disagree with that I think you should

  have a blue plaque you're way more

  famous than most of the blue plaques I

  see where it's like oh some nobody 200

  years ago no one's ever heard of gets a

  blue plaque gray I can promise you in

  two hundred years I'll be an even bigger

  nobody I don't know man people might be

  listening to the show in two hundred


  well let's say let's say it's not over

  yet I could still make that late move

  into Test cricket and become the oldest

  player ever to score 100 for Australia

  yeah that's the thing that's gonna make

  you the famous person yeah that's what's

  gonna be it that's what I want to make

  me a famous person no I understand that

  Brady I understand that very clearly

  yeah apparently you don't want to be

  known as the mirror co-host a popular

  podcast you want to be a man who strikes

  out and does his own thing that's what

  you want to be remembered for not a

  co-host gray I want us to introduce the

  term vice host from my position no I am

  vetoing this is ridiculous title it

  makes no sense for podcast co-hosts this

  is gray the host of hello Internet and

  I'm his vice host it's ridiculous and I

  think it's self demeaning Brady I don't

  agree with this I'd be quite happy to be

  a vice host I think that's a really cool


  like if it would be really a good

  talking point like how many podcasts do

  you know that have a vice host we might

  be the first and that would make us

  special it's like have you heard that

  podcast they've got a host and a vice

  host all right I'm gonna listen to that

  just to check that out and then they'll

  listen to me oh I thought this would be

  boring but actually it turns out they

  talk about blue Plex

  penguin deaths it's really cool yeah

  contactless payment cards that have

  existed for two years it's brilliant

  yeah I thought they were just a couple

  of clowns but cutting-edge okay

  so that'll be your blue plaque then

  world's oldest cricketer and vice host

  of hello internet podcasts and I sat on

  this bench I've take that not whales I

  was cricket at world's oldest cricketer

  to score a hundred I have to score a

  test century just being old is not good

  enough I hope to score a ton it probably

  is too late for me

  sports-wise but you can always be the

  world's first vice vice I host of a

  podcast I don't like it I still don't

  like you crazy that's out of the photo

  now my friend I feel like I know you

  will enough but sometimes get an idea in

  your Brady head and there's just no

  dislodging it this moment I'm ordering

  the embroidered t-shirt across my back

  in big red letters of Isis until the

  buzz started I didn't realize how many B

  stories were in the media every week

  it's massive it is I feel the same way

  like I was on Twitter earlier and I saw

  someone had made a little logo for the

  buzz with CGP grey like a like a cute

  little turning a microphone into B wings

  a little bit of a logo and I was making

  a joke about how like everybody seems

  really interested in all the B news but

  like there really isn't like haha the

  joke is over there really isn't enough B

  news all of the time to have any kind of

  regular segment that's the buzz and then

  immediately people are like oh did you

  know this week there was a million

  dollars worth of bees stolen it a bee

  heist like what all right and then it's

  like oh not only was this a bee heist

  but it's be heists our thing at least

  stolen bees the

  this is like a whole underground yeah

  industry there are bay rustlers yeah I

  know I think I can't believe like this

  is really a thing that people go around

  stealing bees so someone sent me this

  article about like Fresno police

  officers find 1 million dollars worth of

  stolen bees in the great be heist it's

  just it's it's crazy like the guy who

  stole all these bees is facing 10 years

  in prison if he's convicted yours

  weren't even better one you've got the

  American Bay hush there was a British

  Bay heist as well just recently there

  are multiple be heists going on I mean

  of course America's be heists are bigger

  and better than it be heist in England

  yeah they're more small-scale here yeah

  go big or go home with American be

  heists yeah I guess is the way that

  works today in The Times there was a

  story about a new nature paper that's

  just been published about some pesticide

  that we all use that's devastating

  bumblebees they found that bumble bee

  Queens that are exposed to this New Yawk

  denied thing a 26 percent less likely to

  lay eggs and start a colony like how

  detailed is that research they're like

  exposing queen bees to this chemical and

  then like that's detailed research they

  go on hardcore they are going hardcore

  and it was in The Times you know baby

  news is big it's obviously like demand

  for the sub editors of the newspaper

  obviously thinking what are we going to

  put in are we gonna put in this yet

  another story about YouTube terrorism or

  should we just have a break from that

  and like put in this story about bees

  and I put the base Torian this kind of

  stuff is increasing like reading through

  the bee heist news my favorite quote so

  far is from Steve Godwin from the

  California State Beekeepers Association

  he says quote there used to be a code of

  honor that you didn't mess with another

  man's bees but the perpetrators of this

  giant hive heist broke that code some

  things are just wrong it's like the Wild

  West out there with bees what's the

  security measures one can put in place

  to prevent ones Bay's being taken I mean

  foolishly I would have assumed that the

  bees themselves would be the security

  measure you know I guess is like cattle


  the bees are happy to go along with

  somebody who's you know giving them some

  smoke and then here they would get all

  sleepy and you can just take them I

  don't have any idea but I quote this guy

  apparently the police got him in an

  elaborate sting Jihad Brady that was

  absolutely awful

  I'm here awake hello hello internet

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  Squarespace calm /hello

  I caught up with gray and mrs. gray a

  week ago or so was it yeah I saw you in


  we had a lovely day together and the day

  got off to a brilliant start because the

  moment your wife walked in the room she

  was carrying this incredibly huge

  wrapped present for me wrapped in gold

  paper with a big red bow mm-hmm I felt a

  bit bad because like I hadn't turned up

  with anything and you guys were

  bestowing on me this enormous gift which

  I have to say as one of the best wrapped

  and ribbond gifts I've ever seen I will

  put a picture of it wrapped in the

  shownotes and I couldn't wait to open it

  mm-hmm and then you guys told me I

  couldn't open it until this episode so

  it remains wrapped and it's sitting next

  to me right this moment fantastic ready

  yes we got a little gift for you huh and

  I wanted to wait it's not little it's

  massive you have a picture I'll put in

  the show notes of the gifts with Audrey

  for scale so people can immediately

  understand how big the packages yeah but

  yes there's a presence that we got for

  you yeah that we wanted to have you open

  on the show we thought would be the best

  way to do it so we've made you wait a

  week a suspense has been killing me has

  it brainy hasn't actually been killing

  you actually kind of has I've grown kind

  of attached to it now that it's been

  sitting in my office and cause it's so

  such a beautiful object mm-hmm you know

  it's big and gold with a big red sash

  I've come to quite like it it's the

  point where unwrapping it is gonna be

  disappointed because the beauty of it

  will be destroyed I'm not a very like

  Nate and rapper either I wouldn't expect

  you a very neat unwrapped er either I

  figured this he'd go one of two ways

  which is that one you would obsess over

  what's in the box

  hmm or two you might just totally forget

  about it

  did you put it in a room and it would

  out of sight out of mind it didn't occur

  to me that you would you would place

  in a spot where you could see it and

  gaze upon it all the time and then just

  just like it as an actual object in your

  office the only slight problem with

  having a beautiful gold gift wrapped in

  your office at a time that like it's not

  Christmas and stuff like that is over

  the past few days I've had a few people

  visit my house like some of them have

  been here for like extended stays as

  well because they're like numberphile

  guests who sometimes come here and we

  make videos together for a day or two

  and then they go off so all of these

  people like when they come into my

  office they see this wrapped gift and

  I'm a bit worried in the back of their

  head they've all been thinking oh I

  wonder if that's for me is little thank

  you for doing numberphile they never get

  it and then I feel really guilty that

  all these people have been coming and

  thinking that the presents for them and

  they they it's not it's for me if people

  don't say anything I think you can kind

  of assume that in the back of their mind

  they were hoping what the gift is for

  them cuz I don't go oh what's the gift

  because you wouldn't say that yeah

  exactly right like they're standing by

  it like you know rubbing their toe into

  the ground looking at you and going like

  so is it time to go now that the day is


  Oh big s I'll be here to go if there's

  nothing else nothing else that I think

  that's the implicit social thing that's

  occurring there yeah feeling like it

  gives her for them so I'm sorry about

  that Brady maybe they just didn't notice

  it although he's hard to miss because

  it's gold and red it's crazy

  so should I open up okay yes you can

  open the gift now okay just preface yes

  that there is some assembly required

  just so that you know that you know that

  going into it but yes you can open the

  gift you can open the gift now Brady

  okay here we go

  oh I'm putting it on my lap and I'm

  undoing this secure doesn't contain

  basil yeah surprise it's a bag full of

  live view that would make quite the

  podcast Sigma all right I've done the


  Wow this is a new microphone

  it's called Shore legend

  it's called Shore legend

  Darry performance 75th anniversary model

  limited edition it's amazing looking

  like it funnily enough it's the sort of

  thing that I would quite like the look

  of it's almost like the people who

  bought it and you might taste it's

  almost like we've been in your house and

  know how things look again

  top-of-the-line early 1900s

  look for everything that's in your house

  Brady this is gorgeous I'm actually

  opening the box to look at the device

  itself now this is what I was going to

  say is what you have to understand is

  that it is it's not just a microphone

  that we got your Brady yeah this is a a

  symbol of something so what I want you

  to take a look at is the base because

  what we got you is not just a microphone

  but it is it is a trophy is what it is

  Brady Wow

  so oh wow so it's got like a numbered

  certificate of authenticity mm-hmm so

  like that that already it really excites

  me and it's like wow this is amazing

  it's in like a its own little steel

  suitcase mm-hmm like you would see

  someone carrying if it was like like you

  play your head like like it should be

  handcuffed to my wrist yeah that's

  exactly what like that that case totally

  looks like the case that's handcuffed to

  a security guard kind of case so I'm

  gonna I'm gonna undo the case now Wow

  there's the microphone like in all

  spongy sponginess mm-hmm

  that's a good-looking microphone now it

  doesn't appear the basis that looks like

  the base is separate so I'm gonna open

  the other box with the base in it

  because you know it's all about the base

  on hello Internet

  well here's the base oh hang on no the

  base isn't engraved there we know oh

  well what is the base a Brady the base

  says dr. Brady Haran radio and podcast

  champion 2017 you're being naughty

  we're not being Yeti because as the

  audience already knows at this point the

  people who follow hello internet

  intensely now you won the internet radio

  competition podcast voting extravaganza

  that the Radio Times put on we were

  discussing in the last episode yes you

  won that you won that by an enormous

  amount and what was there from the Radio

  Times not but silence and my wife and I

  thought that's not the kind of respect

  and acknowledgement that dr. Brady Haran

  deserves we need to give him a trophy to

  embody this accomplishment and this

  award that Brady has won so my wife went

  out on the Internet's and we decided to

  find a trophy for Brady and there was

  nothing that was up to what we thought

  would be the magnificent standard that

  you deserve so we found this

  limited-edition microphone and we got it

  engraved in London and the base so this

  is the trophy to represent your triumph

  in podcasting Brady well I feel like I

  should make a short speech I would just

  like to say this is not just a victory

  for me mm-hmm

  this is a victory for my co-host

  although he fell in the battle and was

  not able to make it all the way to the

  final stages I felt like he was with me

  in spirit and he was certainly with me

  on Twitter


  I was with you on Twitter every step of

  the way buddy but also this is not about

  me mm-hmm no and this is not a victory

  for me this is a victory for the Tim's

  and I mean that quite literally because

  as we were discussed early they pretty

  much did it and I was a slightly

  confused and bemused passenger for their

  mischief-making but before we talk about

  this vote and how it came to be that I

  am the Radio Times rarely on podcast

  champion and we will talk about it

  because it was fascinating and also I

  need some of it explain to me there is a

  group of people I want to thank and

  these are not the people who are

  responsible for the victory really but

  they actually are a really sizable group

  and that is the group of people that sat

  at their computer and just clicked on a

  button and refresh the page and waited

  and click the button again and then

  wouldn't had a coffee and click the

  button again and I had like some friends

  that dinner and like some friends wives

  and people like that who were oblivious

  to the technological firestorm that was

  taking place behind the scenes on both

  sides even people who were aware we're

  still participating there were many a

  manual vote cast in the gray household

  for Brady I'll tell you them yes and

  there are lots of people who used the

  conventional way of mallets died think

  of just voting over and over again on

  their computer I seriously want to thank

  them because some people like spent a

  lot of time doing and it was really

  sweet like Alan who famously composed

  the hello internet jingle mm-hmm it'll

  sound at the side of a show called me up

  and said oh my wife and I so happy that

  you weren't my wife like stayed up

  really late and was sitting in bed

  voting for you lots and lots of times

  and then I sort of said to him like you

  realized like that was quite a lot of

  other stuff going on and he was like I

  didn't I had no idea like so there are

  lots of people who were just like really

  sweet voting the old-fashioned way and

  like that means a lot like you know the

  whole thing doesn't mean anything cause

  they silly vote but I want to thank

  those people because they're like you

  know they're old school I guess we'd

  better talk about what happened in this

  vote and discuss a few things about it


  it had quite the conclusion let's talk

  about that vote just to finish my speech

  thank you to gray and mrs. gray because

  this is actually a really lovely thing

  you've given me as well like actually

  does mean a lot to me so thank you very

  much and I will thank her in person

  that's well again we know physical

  objects mean a lot to you Brady

  we wanted you to have an embodiment of

  this tremendous thing that we have all

  gone through together as a big hello

  internet group I mean should I use this

  microphone now as my podcasting

  microphone or should I put it on my

  little shelf where I have like my

  favorite because I do have three or four

  trophies that means so much to me I do

  have them on display so I could put that

  up there on my little my mantle of Fame

  this is 100% up to you it serves either

  as a trophy or it can be a hell of an

  Internet microphone it is a working

  microphone it is a limited edition

  working microphone so it looks like the

  bangs nice to be honest

  however it's your trophy now it is in

  your hands

  however it best serves you baby I just

  don't want to sully it it's so lovely

  like I don't want to scratch it and

  knock it but maybe that will add you

  know charm to it if it's like you used

  in battle like it will increase its

  value if hello Internet episodes were

  actually recorded on it it's up to you

  man it's up to you all right all right

  so let me very quickly recap what

  happened for people who are smart enough

  to have taken absolutely no interest in

  this debacle that happened a few weeks

  ago now just before you even begin with

  this like I just have to say I love kind

  of sometimes getting involved in these

  sort of silly internet things it really

  is fun to let yourself get like swept

  away in an event like this something

  like that just really heightens the

  feeling of even like you were saying

  with with Alan and his wife who were

  voting for you in the election that

  people are just unaware of like to us

  what seemed like this incredible

  all-consuming Malstrom for a weekend

  yeah there's Twitter and this

  coordination on reddit and there's

  messages going back and forth where I am

  in and it's like this is this flurry of

  activity that seems so all-consuming

  which you realize is like just one of

  like an infinite number of internet

  maelstroms that are occurring and every

  corner of the globe right it's like

  outside of this world totally


  inside of this world to a sub community

  all consuming like 40 points in 72 hours

  I have followed no election in my life

  more closely than this way so I'll give

  like a brief summary of what I think

  happened you can you can explain some of

  it to me and tell me the parts of it

  that tickled your fancy so last time

  people listened if they listened to the

  last episode they'll know the radio

  times around this pole for their radio

  and podcast champion they ran all

  different polls for different categories

  like TV stars and comedians and there

  was a radio and podcast section there

  was a huge big thing very elaborate with

  all different groups and a knockout

  section and it got to a point where I

  was in this quarter-final up against

  this guy called Steve Allen who gray and

  I thought was a bit dismissive of us

  within wait so we we sort of caused a

  call to arms to try and win the vote let

  me win the vote against this guy and

  that's how the last podcast ended and we

  deliberately released that podcast after

  all the voting was over because we

  didn't we didn't want to be seen to be

  like you know getting involved

  well at least via the back up that

  phrasing we thought it would be better

  to drop the episode after results were

  closed yeah I mean releasing the podcast

  to like you know 900 thousand downloads

  whatever felt a bit like we'd be

  bringing a gun to a knife fight

  so it was like let's just do it they do

  this the old-fashioned way

  mmm-hmm so I won this vote against the

  Steve Allen and I had said on the

  podcast that was it this is a

  meaningless silly vote to just drive

  clicks to their website and increase

  their advertising and I said I'm gonna

  have anything more to do with it I want

  to just jump in here as well that I to

  at this point felt satiated in this

  internet's kerfuffle I think my exact

  words were that I wanted I wanted your

  opponent crushed into the ground yeah I

  feel like that was in internet terms

  accomplished it was victory and I felt

  like ah okay catharsis

  it's all over oh good oh good so in the

  semi-final I was paired up with someone

  called lilah Parsons who is a DJ and a

  TV presenter and a model and obvious

  very talented and successful but it

  turns out I won that vote as well I

  didn't even follow that vote really but

  it turns out I won that vote and that

  put me into the final and the final was

  against funnily enough a colleague a

  radio colleague of Steve Allen like a

  co-presenter on the same station threw

  like mates and I was in the final

  against him and he had taken an interest

  in this whole vote and had been tweeting

  about it and encouraging people to vote

  now out of kind of respect I kind of

  looked him up and who he was and found

  out a bit about him and I listened to

  his show and I just want to say from the

  outset I quite like this guy like I

  listened to his show a couple of times

  I've read some of the stuff he writes he

  seems reasonably like-minded to me on

  some issues a lot of people who follow

  it hello internet like him I found out

  there was a lot of crossover seems of

  sound guy and also before the vote

  started he even tweeted me and like said

  you know good luck mate haha and I sort

  of tweeted back so no issues with this

  guy at all sound guy everything's good

  yeah so the vote started and there was a

  bit of to and fro early and I think he

  had a lead but what happened then was

  the Tim's took over at this point and

  they got really really into it and I

  want to say Radio Times was really

  whipping this up into a frenzy there

  article and their website said in the

  blue corner and in the red corner and

  they all the way through the whole thing

  they were tweeting about it all the time

  they were inciting people to vote they

  were using language that like made it

  sound like a real war they were using

  language like rally the troops oh yeah

  they specifically said on their website

  and in multiple places vote as many

  times as you want vote often because I

  think they wanted people to continually

  refresh the pages and up their ad

  impression exactly yeah that that's 100%

  what it was I realized they were they

  were retweeting everything that they

  possibly could that was related to these

  internet fights they were whipping it up

  they were really whipping it up

  so the Tim's took the gauntlet now I

  decided to stay out of it that was my

  decision I wasn't going to tweet about

  it I wasn't going to get involved in the

  end my only policy was to retweet

  whenever this James O'Brien tweeted so

  if he ever said come on everyone that's

  vote lots of times

  just retweet his thing and let people

  decide what to do but the Tim's the

  Tim's got really into it they created

  this like battle command station on

  River on a reddit thread where they

  coordinated in ways that I still don't


  they were clearly using automated voting

  and BOTS and things like that they were

  creating pages where the voting could be

  done automatically by your computer and

  clearly a kind of arms war started

  because James O'Brien fans who I want to

  point out were doing the same thing and

  I have lots of evidence they were doing

  the same thing and the vote wouldn't

  have been as close as it was if they

  weren't doing the same thing but the

  James some of the more old-fashioned

  James O'Brien fans started crying foul

  and because this was the teams were

  doing this so openly they were doing on

  reddit they were explaining their

  tactics so that other people could do it

  it was a real public communal effort

  there wasn't it wasn't clandestine yeah

  that's why the James O'Brien fans was

  stealing all the technology and codes

  that they were finding and using it to

  vote for their guy so it was very open

  but like the more old-fashioned fans of

  James O'Brien probably a more typical

  Radio Times readers I think when they

  found this thread thought they'd found

  something from like the dark web or

  something some great secret yeah and

  they were then tweeting it and sending

  it to Radio Times going look what's

  going on this cheating and they started

  crying foul and they started saying some

  like inflammatory things like I'm gonna

  you know cancel my subscription and this

  whole thing's corrupt and they got

  really upset because their beloved radio

  presenter looked like he might lose the

  vote and at that point Radio Times were

  like oh my god what have we done we've

  created a monster yeah there was

  definitely a tonal shift from Radio

  Times they went deadly silent on the

  whole thing they never said or tweeted

  another word they still haven't to this

  day even though they're happy tweeting

  about other winners they went completely

  silent but they obviously started trying

  to implement technological solutions

  like at one point they introduced

  captures to stop people from using the

  automated process but when they did that

  yeah the lead I had actually started

  increasing which makes me think maybe I

  had more manual voters then than the

  other guy I want to just point out a

  couple things as we're going along this

  along this road here right because yes

  automated voting started

  happening and and escalating at a rate

  that almost felt like there's like

  there's a self-learning artificial

  intelligence here that is pulling apart

  everything everything that has anything

  to do with how the entire system works

  and cranking out every advantage that

  there could possibly be it's like yeah

  it was very interesting to see in the

  reddit threads slightly terrifying to

  see what the audience can do if it could

  it's like yeah Jesus Christ like I'd

  like these guys might be rigging real

  elections right it was it was amazing it

  was very impressive what I really liked

  is someone put together a data

  visualization of the percentage win over

  time which made it much easier to follow

  the election this is like you know if I

  was if I was the kind of person who

  follow a real election you'd be checking

  updates in the like the polls of the of

  the predicted wins of candidates you

  know once a day when the news publishes

  it but like there's a graph that's

  updating every 5 seconds with what the

  current exact tenth of a percentage edge

  is technology the technology was amazing

  there's a few things about I want to

  come to yeah it was really interesting

  to follow like I kept refreshing the

  graphs and seeing how things were going

  and once the graph existed you could see

  more clearly that at some point as the

  bots were introduced it became entirely

  about war because the graph just ended

  up being just too smooth right like when

  humans are voting it was much more spiky

  but then at a point when you have BOTS

  that are voting whatever it was like

  hundreds and hundreds of times a second

  yeah and you have BOTS on both sides

  voting it ends up becoming like a smooth

  curve because you're just looking at the

  difference between the bots on either

  side and this is where I would have paid

  so much money to know what was going on

  inside Radio Times headquarters because

  they obviously built a clique machine

  like they wanted this to be a bring your


  bring advertising revenue to us click

  machine for Radio Times own benefit and

  much like a shredder in which you keep

  shoving in more paper until it breaks

  this felt like the same thing like Radio

  Times you want votes you're gonna get

  votes you're gonna get millions and

  millions of votes you're going to get

  more votes than there ever will be

  people in the universe like I wouldn't

  be the least bit surprised if in the end

  the results on that final vote were in

  the billions like on either side I made

  the percentages public but they didn't

  make the number of votes public they

  didn't make the number of votes public

  you could only you can only see the

  percentages so for me again it's like

  just like in the the first round where

  it's like Oh la-dee-da isn't this fun

  and then I got angry when Steve Allen

  tweeted the kind of dismissive of you

  tweet like please vote for me over this

  like I have never heard of thing then I

  got riled up I was having the same

  feeling with the later rounds at the

  election like oh isn't this a kind of

  fun thing to follow over the weekend

  like let's see if Brady wins oh it's

  it's now become a bot war like it

  obviously would like lol it's hilarious

  but then the thing that you just

  mentioned is where once again I felt

  myself turned from like happy fun gray

  into like furious gray and it was when

  very obviously someone at the Radio

  Times was looking at the numbers looking

  at the monster that they themselves have

  summoned from the internet and they

  wanted to turn it off right they wanted

  to stop it and so they introduced the

  CAPTCHA so the CAPTCHAs are those those

  words you have to type in to prove that

  you are not a robot right or that the

  pictures that you have to click but they

  were they were using like a

  bargain-basement word CAPTCHA as the

  thing that they were using to try to

  determine that they were actually humans

  voting this to me was when it's like oh

  okay I see what's going on here you now

  you've set up your dopey election which

  has dumb rules in the first place where

  you can vote as many times as you want

  because it's not really an election it's

  an impressions generating machine for

  you now this has gotten out of control

  because you radio times probably have

  like actual people on the radio being

  quite annoyed with you and your position

  as you're trying to be like this thing

  that radio people might care about so

  like they suddenly found themselves in

  awkward position


  I do people didn't seem to take it as

  quite the joke we did no and I think

  obviously you know core business for

  Radio Times is probably radio these

  people probably buy ads in their

  magazine they pay to have their listings

  on there so the people they were pissing

  off and the people who were losing

  suddenly right would like the people who

  actually put bread on the table and the

  podcasters who they don't really care

  about and they just put in there to try

  and up their clicks by getting people

  with like Twitter followers we're

  suddenly winning and they're like oh no

  this is the structural problem they have

  is like this is why like it started to

  get into my brain like it makes me mad

  about the whole system because like you

  obviously included podcasters in some of

  these polls because you wanted to bring

  in like those juicy juicy Internet

  clicks but it's like none of these

  people are your business you don't

  actually want any of the podcasters to

  win and we know that's the case because

  like you said when they introduced the

  CAPTCHA it actually made things worse

  because like you said so many people

  were manually voting for you from hello

  internet versus the number of people

  voting for the radio people that when

  they introduced the CAPTCHA for a couple

  of hours you could see on the graph that

  is like your lead just kept increasing

  even faster than without and so after a

  couple of hours they pulled the CAPTCHA

  and that was when is like my blood is

  now boiling it's like oh okay

  you're just being really open about this

  banana republic that you're running over

  here right like okay if you're gonna put

  the CAPTCHA on and then you're gonna

  take it away because you're obviously

  trying to monkey with the results to get

  the thing that is financially in your

  own best interest like why don't you

  just make up the results at this point

  like this whole thing was a ridiculous

  Sharad like before it even began now you

  have made it into like an even more

  ridiculous thing that the person who

  clearly has more people manually voting

  for him like you kind of wanted to have

  happen in the first place but you don't

  want him to win so you're switching it

  back hoping that the radio personalities

  bots will somehow win or that it won't

  be such an incredibly crushing defeat if

  you have the bots fighting it out versus

  having the actual people fighting it out

  so it made me furious to see this

  election where they wanted to change the

  rules to get the result they want and

  when it wasn't working and it was

  actually worse for them to like whoop I

  guess we'll go back to

  the other way and like change it back so

  the whole thing was just ridiculous but

  my like my blood was boiling after the

  CAPTCHA incidents in this election it's

  like my it's still like it still riles

  me up that's when you started

  marshalling a few troops and started

  encouraging people on Twitter because I

  was trying to be like president you know

  and like stay out of it and I never

  linked to anything that encouraged

  multiple voting either manually or

  automatically I was trying to rise above

  it but then you energized and already

  very energetic group my feeling of it

  was like Radio Times you made me do this

  like I didn't want to do this but you

  made me do it because after the the

  quarterfinals with Steve Allen when you

  won I felt like oh we're done and this

  is just a fun thing to follow and see

  what happens over the weekend but after

  the capture thing it was like no Brady

  has to win this like I'm like I'm gonna

  come in on Twitter and try to make sure

  that like push as much as I can like I

  want this thing to go a particular way

  because Radio Times is like shown their

  hand with this vote manipulation that

  they wanted to have happen but didn't

  happen you want to blow past the capture

  thing like but if it's like to me this

  was like that one of the major events in

  the great election of 2017 well there's

  a few other things I want to ask you

  about and talk about but just to kind of

  finish the the emotional story first I

  didn't want to care but as you have

  pointed out I have like this naturally

  competitive you know streak like most

  Australians I didn't want to win because

  it would be a little bit embarrassing

  but I also really didn't want to lose so

  it got to a point where I was really

  like consumed by it but trying not to be

  and I kept I would look at the numbers

  and like I would see myself like going

  up and holding a lead but as the O'Brien

  fans got more savvy with the automated

  voting sometimes he would claw back some


  and I'd be thinking that's it I'm gonna

  lose now this is the start of the

  precipice and it's all gonna end and I

  would you know and it got to a point

  where I was so like worked up about it

  over days because they made the final

  last more days this is a prelim the

  cruelty and their revenue of course it

  got to a point where I was like just

  going for walks like I would just go for

  a walk out flight to the sea so that I

  didn't have to think about it and like

  then I would get my phone out just

  quickly check the score

  gone down another point one of a percent

  and when whenever a trend started it

  would continue you know you would drop a

  you know a point one of a percent every

  minute and then someone else would do

  something technological and it would it

  would change so anyway I decided I

  thought the best thing for me would be

  to win but to win narrowly so that

  everyone saved face but that's not what

  happened no and I ended up winning about

  80% but never a word was spoken about it

  by Radio Times they like they completely

  disowned the whole thing which is again

  exactly exactly shows you that this is

  not what they wanted on all of the other

  things they're very happy to promote the

  winners and then suddenly this is like

  silence I'm kind of a little bit glad

  because like if they'd made a big deal

  about it and stirred it up again then

  all the O'Brien fans would have come

  back online and said that it was a farce

  and that would have all and that would

  have riled me up again and it would have

  riled you up and I just wouldn't I'm

  quite happy for it to sort of just fade

  a little bit out of existence but still

  happy to of won and like to have my

  trophy from you and mrs. gray but there

  are a few things that I observed and

  liked about it and a few questions I've

  come out with mm-hmm

  first is I said thank you to the people

  who like voted manually but also thank

  you to the people who did all this

  technological stuff because like it was

  awesome like they were awesome and it

  was really interesting to watch as like

  an outsider all the discussions they

  were having and all the tactics they

  were coming up with and all the things

  they were doing and like the camaraderie

  they were having and like the two camps

  of like nailing gear and flag a flag got

  together to work together for others

  laughs so there was a it had a real fun

  spirit to it and I've got a few friends

  who are like just casual hello internet

  observers and they went and had a look

  at like that subreddit what was going on

  and they said to me afterwards I didn't

  realize like hello Internet had so much

  like law about it like so many in jokes

  and so many things and like all of that

  stuff really bubbled to the surface in a

  really fun way on that subreddit I did

  enjoy that but an important question is

  I'm not going to say is this cheating

  because I think that's not even a valid

  question it's not cheating because it's

  not prohibited in the rolls but the

  thing is is that morally right

  and if you think it's morally shady to

  be winning the election this way isn't

  any more morally shady than auntie Doris

  who likes listening to the radio sitting

  there with a cup of coffee and the lamp

  clicking over and over again because

  they were told to you know with a sore

  finger clicking a thousand times like is

  that more legitimate than the people who

  say well I'm not gonna get a sore finger

  when I can just automate this mm-hmm

  like are there moral shades here is it

  the wrong thing is it the right thing

  what do you think about that

  I have zero moral qualms about this

  whatsoever right Radio Times asked for

  as many votes as humans could give them

  and just panicked when when more votes

  were being shoved down their throats

  than they expected right but I don't

  think there's a moral problem with this

  that's why again like there's something

  about this in my mind that it's just

  like like a perfect little storm of

  antagonism is a vote that is so

  obviously intentionally set up to be an

  illegitimate vote by an organization

  that is sort of pretending like it's a

  real thing you're taking a bit of shine

  off this trophy right now by the way

  great this is why I wanted to get you

  this trophy is I think like the trophy

  is a manifestation of like the thing

  that the hello Internet audience did

  that's my question is what did this vote

  measure because it hasn't voted who's a

  better radio presenter or podcaster or

  champion of anything in terms of us as

  individuals like me or James O'Brien or

  Steve Allen or anyone what has this vote

  established has established that hello

  Internet listeners are the most

  technologically savvy and determined or

  has established that there's a size of

  them what do you think this vote has has

  established what has been won I think

  what has been won is a kind of audience

  intensity I think that's what has been

  established here this is why I have such

  a fun feeling about this meeting 'less

  vote because of precisely what you were

  saying before that it was enjoyable and

  engaging to see everybody on the

  subreddit like working toward a thing

  yeah and working toward a thing in

  complicated intricate manner one of the

  things that that was happening just

  before the Radio Times turned off the

  CAPTCHA so like it was a couple of hours

  in but there was like 30 minutes before

  they actually ended up shining a thing

  off was people who didn't have technical

  skills were asking like oh what can I do

  to help in addition to just manually

  voting someone was was essentially

  running the CAPTCHA through like a

  Mechanical Turk system so that people

  could decode what the words were and

  then have a bot do the other parts of

  doing the voting automatically it's like

  they just got that system set up like

  right before the CAPTCHA got shut down

  that was the equivalent of Internet

  users saying like and you have my axe

  right like I don't I don't have

  programming skills but like what else

  can I bring to this table the hell yeah

  and people building a system so that

  there was something that was that was

  there to help so I think it's a real

  indicator of audience intensity and

  interest that's why like when the Radio

  Times doubled down on their silence it

  felt even more intense to me like there

  needs to be some acknowledgment of this

  that's why this trophy exists right is

  like hey Radio Times you thought you

  were doing something you were not

  remotely doing what you thought you were

  doing something far more interesting

  happened around this that's what this

  trophy is about there Brady it was just

  a very very fun and interesting weekend

  and terrifyingly impressive to see what

  an internet community can do so I guess

  the next big question is when they do it

  again next year and I think they will

  because it seems to be something they're

  quite proud of will you and I be put in

  I mean I'm the defending champion you

  know ad you are the defending champion

  it wouldn't outrageous not included next

  year it would be interesting to see how

  they conduct the vote next year I

  imagine it would be different it would

  also be really interesting if next year

  we were both put in because this kind of

  slipped under the radar before the teams

  were really onto it and you got knocked

  out by the very zealous Steve Allen fans

  before you know without us rallying the

  troops so if you if this time we were

  ready and troops were bradleyt before

  the vote

  you know we could get our long-awaited

  showdown no no is I don't want there to

  be a showdown I can click I will promote

  no poles until after I have been

  eliminated that is my policy so that's

  the way that's gonna work I want to win

  these things but when I won it was so

  sweet I was like I saw some of the light

  like teams and that was saying this is

  so great that we're really pleased I

  wonder if they're gonna do like a

  magazine spread with Braley and an

  interview and like I think they

  genuinely thought like I was you know so

  I have seen someone mock up a cover of

  Radio Times with me on the cover

  I think they genuinely thought like you

  know there would be some celebration of

  the wind as opposed to the Stoney Stoney

  cold silence that it's been met by yeah

  well again if it was how could we phrase

  this a more legitimately intended poll

  like yeah of course they would have some

  some kind of photo shoot with Brady

  you know you and Audrey they'd have

  pictures the trophy my new trophy like

  just lounging with the trophy yeah a

  trophy they do all this kind of stuff

  but of course no absolute silence on

  their end but again that that's why

  that's why you needed you needed a

  physical tangible symbol of this thing

  Brady this thing we will never forget

  you my friend are a radio and podcast

  champion you deserve that trophy