The Accidental Tech Podcast

233: Nobody Cares But Me, But I Do Care

 

  so you use the it's a 15 inch know you [TS]

  have but you know you have the the [TS]

  escape with the 5k and the escapes [TS]

  clamshell close its back to a 15 [TS]

  remember I know I make it hard to keep [TS]

  track [TS]

  I can't keep track holy shit on a 15 [TS]

  touch bar I'm a 15 touch bar which I [TS]

  never actually used the touch bar and [TS]

  that was because all the ports it was [TS]

  partially because of the ports it was [TS]

  partially because I tried the first few [TS]

  weekends I was spending here I used the [TS]

  the map book escape with the 5k and it [TS]

  was struggling to drive all those pixels [TS]

  like basic operations like window [TS]

  dragging was slow and and then and I I [TS]

  did want more performance if it was [TS]

  gonna be like my main computer for a [TS]

  month of heavy iOS development you know [TS]

  then I rationalize it away by saying [TS]

  well then when I go home I can bring the [TS]

  LG 5k and I can sell my iMac while it is [TS]

  still under any kind of warranty it has [TS]

  like it's I think it's under warranty to [TS]

  October and then you know use my [TS]

  clamshell with this but instead of I [TS]

  have now as my main set up until the Mac [TS]

  Pro comes out next year so I have [TS]

  appropriated a second 4k monitor which [TS]

  is a story that's not worth telling at [TS]

  the moment so I have two of these LJ 4k [TS]

  monitor LG for the Duchesse ALJ LG 4k [TS]

  monitors that are now being run off of [TS]

  my pre touch bar MacBook Pro and to be [TS]

  honest it actually seems just fine with [TS]

  these now granted there for K not 5k [TS]

  it's a big difference but it seems just [TS]

  fine with two 4k s however I have [TS]

  forgotten how persnickety and and fickle [TS]

  Mac OS is when it comes to clamshell [TS]

  mode there are lots of times that all [TS]

  like I put it to sleep and I open it up [TS]

  and it spurious and sometimes doesn't [TS]

  wake up I don't put it to sleep and I [TS]

  just rip all the cables out and I walk [TS]

  away and it goes to sleep and then may [TS]

  or may not wake up I'll open the lid and [TS]

  I'll rip all the cables out then [TS]

  everything just dances all over the [TS]

  place and then it may or may not [TS]

  actually be the way I want it to be its [TS]

  clamshell is not really what we should [TS]

  be doing with these things which is [TS]

  unfortunate because I do like it when I [TS]

  have either you know a 5k is you have or [TS]

  like a couple of for K's like I have and [TS]

  say what like as [TS]

  I've been using clamshell here at [TS]

  vacation times and I completely agree [TS]

  like it's been a while since I've used [TS]

  just a laptop with Mac OS at like laptop [TS]

  with a desktop screen connected to it [TS]

  like it's been a like I used to do it [TS]

  all the time I used my my main setup but [TS]

  that was probably a good six seven years [TS]

  ago at least and I had forgotten like [TS]

  quite how just inconsistent a lot of the [TS]

  stuff is like it just it doesn't work [TS]

  right and that le now with the touch bar [TS]

  it's even worse like every time I log in [TS]

  the text box won't show on the main [TS]

  screen I think you start typing because [TS]

  it's the laptop is waiting for touch ID [TS]

  but it's closed and so on the big LG [TS]

  screen it just shows me a login window [TS]

  and it will not show the text area [TS]

  unless you start typing it's like weird [TS]

  little stuff like that it's just it's [TS]

  just not it's not good I really honestly [TS]

  I'm rethinking my plan now of like [TS]

  getting rid of my iMac early I'm like oh [TS]

  god this is this is awkward [TS]

  not to mention like this lg screen is [TS]

  such a piece of crap really [TS]

  I rented a vanity for like it's not I [TS]

  mean so one thing is I had to get an [TS]

  Ergo Tron arm because the stand is so [TS]

  wobbly [TS]

  it just kept wobbling like every time I [TS]

  would like type on my keyboard I don't [TS]

  think I'm I'm that aggressive of a [TS]

  typist but every time I would type on [TS]

  the keyboard my monitor would wobble [TS]

  back and forth but yeah yeah LG is it's [TS]

  it's a piece of crap it's just it's not [TS]

  a good it's it's a PC monitor it has [TS]

  crap speaker that has crap frame around [TS]

  it it's you know it had that stupid [TS]

  interference problem with the early ones [TS]

  like it's just not a well engineered [TS]

  piece of anything and I I don't expect [TS]

  to be buying more non-apple monitors [TS]

  there if I can help it alright so this [TS]

  is a weird setup for tonight it is [TS]

  currently the evening of Friday the 4th [TS]

  of August and we are going to do a [TS]

  marathon recording session and we need [TS]

  to get this week's which probably won't [TS]

  be released until tomorrow on the fifth [TS]

  Saturday the 5th of August this week's [TS]

  recording which will probably be a [TS]

  mostly normal ATP recording and next [TS]

  weeks which will be released on or [TS]

  around Wednesday the 9th we are going to [TS]

  do a [TS]

  bit of Q&A probably for most of what [TS]

  ends up being the second episode but we [TS]

  are recording these both back-to-back [TS]

  and we may or may not have a cleaned [TS]

  separation between the first episode in [TS]

  the second depending on how aggressive [TS]

  Marko gets when he does the slicing and [TS]

  dicing so I have so many ideas I can [TS]

  only imagine this is like I'm thinking [TS]

  like so my two favorite ideas are either [TS]

  we do like next week on a TP like one of [TS]

  those like previous or we do like the [TS]

  classic cop-out of like I don't know how [TS]

  to end this song in the 80s so I'm just [TS]

  gonna fade it out I'll just be repeating [TS]

  the same sentence over and over again [TS]

  and just slowly fade way to spoil your [TS]

  two best ideas I hope you don't put this [TS]

  in the episode so anyway so this one it [TS]

  might feel this one in the next one I [TS]

  should say might feel slightly weird and [TS]

  I apologize if that's the case like we [TS]

  had mentioned I think on the last [TS]

  episode between the three of us we have [TS]

  planned our vacations to not overlap at [TS]

  all which is kind of unfortunate for [TS]

  times when you want to make sure all [TS]

  three of you are here to record so we're [TS]

  doing the best we can we apologize and [TS]

  thanks for bearing with us [TS]

  that being said John how was your beach [TS]

  vacation it's fine beat that I would [TS]

  have guessed let's talk about TSM C's [TS]

  ten millimeters excuse me ten nanometers [TS]

  versus Intel Intel's 10 nanometers and [TS]

  we had somebody in the know right in and [TS]

  that person said you know I work for one [TS]

  of the companies involved and they might [TS]

  be biased but I like the show this is [TS]

  this person talking and I just wanted to [TS]

  point out that like so many other things [TS]

  in technology naming of processed notes [TS]

  has become more marketing than reality [TS]

  so there's an article that talks about [TS]

  this and one of the recent tricks [TS]

  continues this anonymous email or one of [TS]

  the recent tricks is to quote a distance [TS]

  between features that are not [TS]

  electrically active so this allows you [TS]

  to quote a small number but of course [TS]

  doesn't do much for increasing [TS]

  transistor debt then [TS]

  and another person in a Julian Heather [TS]

  Bell wrote in to say that TSM sees ten [TS]

  nanometers is only a bit denser than [TS]

  Intel's 14 so Intel claims a three-year [TS]

  advantage on ten nanometers and wants to [TS]

  redefine everything we have another post [TS]

  about that and yet another post which [TS]

  will put them show notes about how Intel [TS]

  may still be set to lose process [TS]

  leadership after next year we're gonna [TS]

  race you in a hurry you got somewhere to [TS]

  be we have two episodes to fill here [TS]

  stretch it out you know do you know the [TS]

  TV stretch out motion looks like you're [TS]

  pulling taffy doing the opposite you're [TS]

  doing the the fingers rotate bring it [TS]

  together yeah yeah get it together [TS]

  do you really need to try hard to [TS]

  stretch out follow up apparently we do [TS]

  because Casey's going for a speed run [TS]

  again let me know there will be three [TS]

  links in those show nuts if you want to [TS]

  read more about this but the upshot is [TS]

  that a lot a lot of people rose to say [TS]

  hey until 10 nanometre isn't gonna be [TS]

  way smaller than TSMC Nana made 10 [TS]

  nanometre and there's a lot of reasons [TS]

  for that and feature size is not very [TS]

  strictly defined as this couple is [TS]

  emails pointed out you know you can [TS]

  quote-unquote cheat by quoting distances [TS]

  that are in meaningful recording [TS]

  distances that make your particular [TS]

  arrangement look good because again [TS]

  these are when they're laying out the [TS]

  things on the chips it's a 3d [TS]

  arrangement of things there's a layering [TS]

  vertical horizontal you know it's it's [TS]

  three-dimensional it's not just like [TS]

  even though it's done with you know with [TS]

  ography it's not just two-dimensional [TS]

  like a drawing it's actually a 3d shape [TS]

  and it influences what the distances are [TS]

  between things anyway it's complicated [TS]

  but consensus was from all the different [TS]

  feedback and all that in articles that [TS]

  TSMC ten millimeter is not as small as [TS]

  until ten nanometer tint also has a lead [TS]

  and that final link is like well maybe [TS]

  they have lead now but they're gonna [TS]

  lose it and in 2019 and later and I [TS]

  guess we'll see that was still fairly [TS]

  quick thank you very much but you're [TS]

  right we should stretch it out so Steven [TS]

  Dean wrote in to say I can't even [TS]

  continue with it I thought you were [TS]

  struggling to pronounce his name even [TS]

  Dean that one's really difficult so [TS]

  Steven wrote in to say you're missing a [TS]

  lot of your movies sound [TS]

  without a subwoofer your atoms only go [TS]

  down to about 86 Hertz which is normal [TS]

  cutoff for a non full range can you [TS]

  translate that into English for me yeah [TS]

  so basically you know speakers because [TS]

  they are these giant moving things and [TS]

  everything there's a certain frequency [TS]

  range that they're able to reproduce and [TS]

  and what he's saying is that the low end [TS]

  of the frequency range of the woofers [TS]

  that are in my paradigm atom speakers [TS]

  are they can't reproduce very very very [TS]

  low frequencies and subwoofers have a [TS]

  lower floor they can reproduce [TS]

  frequencies much lower and and that is [TS]

  certainly one reason to have a sub [TS]

  woofer I think a better reason to have a [TS]

  sub woofer is to get like more bass [TS]

  energy you know more you can get more of [TS]

  that thump more of that slam I'm like [TS]

  and you know base hits and sounds and [TS]

  stuff and you can just also just get [TS]

  more volume and more spread that's [TS]

  probably a better reason to have it [TS]

  honestly but my my reasons for not [TS]

  liking subwoofers and not really wanting [TS]

  one remain I designed my TV speaker [TS]

  setup to be really good for music in a [TS]

  way that still is okay for TV and I [TS]

  think for music I still largely prefer [TS]

  two speakers not surround and for that [TS]

  to be not with some like big booming [TS]

  thumpy subwoofer you know on in the [TS]

  corner of the room now I know it there [TS]

  are ways to do it better [TS]

  however the arrangement of my living [TS]

  room is such that I don't really have a [TS]

  good place to put a subwoofer or maybe [TS]

  even a pair of subwoofers that would [TS]

  make any sense and that would sound good [TS]

  so you know it lots of people have [TS]

  written in saying you know you can put [TS]

  the subwoofer in good places there are [TS]

  good so but you know there are more of [TS]

  that more you know more ways to do it [TS]

  and then when I said last time and that [TS]

  is true you know in an ideal world but [TS]

  my living room is on an ideal world and [TS]

  so I have limitations of of you know [TS]

  what I can put where how much space I [TS]

  have in the current arrangement how [TS]

  things need to look because we don't [TS]

  want everything to just be this one like [TS]

  giant box so you know my setup is fine [TS]

  for me and if you want subwoofers and [TS]

  you were set up or if you want surround [TS]

  sound and your setup cool I don't really [TS]

  mind either [TS]

  I don't know how the setup is good for [TS]

  music if you're giving up 2286 hurts [TS]

  that entire frequency range that's it [TS]

  that president music - it's not just [TS]

  movies explosions that have it you know [TS]

  I mean all the things about volume [TS]

  obviously yeah maybe you want to [TS]

  exaggerate in a movie but just plain old [TS]

  music music has bass - I know you don't [TS]

  like bass you're doing your own reviews [TS]

  but that's not true i I don't like when [TS]

  basses all you hear and and so while [TS]

  again I agree that it would be nice to [TS]

  have you know solid response across the [TS]

  whole frequency range in practice that's [TS]

  hard it's easy it's way easier doing [TS]

  headphones than it is and speakers [TS]

  headphones you only have one driver and [TS]

  you can you know you can do a lot of [TS]

  even easier things with it but you know [TS]

  the speakers you have to have like large [TS]

  things that depend on the arrangement of [TS]

  your room and and large boxes and large [TS]

  transducers of some kind that vibrate up [TS]

  and down and just get a home pot it will [TS]

  figure out how your room is arranged and [TS]

  make sure everything sounds okay [TS]

  I actually really curious to hear how [TS]

  the home pod deals with bass because [TS]

  basically it's one of those things it's [TS]

  kind of like the it's kind of like how [TS]

  it's hard for very very small camera [TS]

  sensors to do things that require big [TS]

  glass bass reproduction is one of those [TS]

  things where like at some point you kind [TS]

  of just need largeness like you need [TS]

  like a large surface to vibrate slowly [TS]

  to get some of that you know and and so [TS]

  it's very very hard for any kind of very [TS]

  small speaker to have good bass response [TS]

  that's why once the trend moved in [TS]

  computer speakers and then later on home [TS]

  theater speakers once the trend moved to [TS]

  very very small speakers they also had [TS]

  to add subwoofers because the little [TS]

  tiny speakers would reproduce the higher [TS]

  frequency it's just fine but then they [TS]

  needed to add a sub woofer to get the [TS]

  low frequencies and there was no way to [TS]

  make like a small speaker that could [TS]

  also do the low frequencies so the [TS]

  Amazon echo definitely has this problem [TS]

  where the bass on it it's non-existent [TS]

  although the sound quality isn't very [TS]

  good anyway on it so maybe they just [TS]

  don't care but the home pod I would [TS]

  imagine they're gonna care a lot about [TS]

  sound quality so I am really curious to [TS]

  see how they solve that problem if they [TS]

  solve that problem or if they just you [TS]

  know crank up the bass in in DSP in [TS]

  wheaton within the speaker like [TS]

  artificially inflate the little bit of [TS]

  bass they have and just hope that's [TS]

  enough and call today what was the [TS]

  biggest driver in the home pot it was [TS]

  like four inches or six inches or [TS]

  something I don't know I have I sleuth [TS]

  it up six inches is pretty big the whole [TS]

  thing is not that big so we know it [TS]

  can't be it's not bigger than than the [TS]

  pot itself that's a pretty small little [TS]

  thing but yeah I can't yeah can't be [TS]

  that big of a speaker in there it's kind [TS]

  of a shame that you know it was a [TS]

  question I had about them and I still [TS]

  have that although I think it's mostly [TS]

  been answered if you buy two of them [TS]

  like they recommend it's not as if they [TS]

  act like stereo speakers it seems like [TS]

  they both just figure out how to best [TS]

  fill the room with sound but each one of [TS]

  them it's not like one is the left [TS]

  speaker more it's the right and [TS]

  similarly one is wooden doesn't just [TS]

  become the sub you know I mean like [TS]

  imagine if one could just do the low [TS]

  frequencies and it looks like a little [TS]

  subwoofer anyway looks like a jellyfish [TS]

  but apparently they don't work that way [TS]

  when when we were living in Connecticut [TS]

  so this is when I was in like high [TS]

  school and dad had decided that he [TS]

  wanted to take his home theater really [TS]

  seriously and so not only did we have [TS]

  some subwoofers somewhere in the corner [TS]

  of the room but he actually installed I [TS]

  believe the term was based shakers or at [TS]

  least maybe maybe that's a brand like a [TS]

  xerox thing and what is that a [TS]

  proprietary eponym or whatever it is but [TS]

  anyways basically under the floor of the [TS]

  room the the TV room there were a [TS]

  handful of basically vibrator motors [TS]

  like you would find in your phone just [TS]

  much bigger and they were wired into [TS]

  like the amplifier and acted as like [TS]

  ancillary subwoofers so you would [TS]

  literally feel explosions when you were [TS]

  watching movies is pretty cool at the [TS]

  time magic fingers right I'm sure that's [TS]

  a reference and I don't get it but I'm [TS]

  just gonna roll with it these terms all [TS]

  sound really gross and the modern [TS]

  parlance it's a book the local furniture [TS]

  store that has an IMAX theater this is a [TS]

  normal thing if you are from where I'm [TS]

  from oh my god has a thing called butt [TS]

  kickers oh yeah it's not similar yeah [TS]

  they call them butt kickers thing in [TS]

  everybody seat that shakes you it's it's [TS]

  novel it is novel that's well put also [TS]

  Marco I want to commend you for being [TS]

  okay with not perfection [TS]

  because I completely agree with you like [TS]

  it is unequivocally not perfection to [TS]

  not have a subwoofer [TS]

  to be okay with that it's kind of [TS]

  freeing well it's the best it could [TS]

  possibly be okay again it's the living [TS]

  room set up right leg first of all that [TS]

  is mostly not you it was mostly used for [TS]

  TV I still wanted to sound very good for [TS]

  music but it honestly is mostly used for [TS]

  TV and and it sounds very good enough [TS]

  for TV for us and like I even run this [TS]

  by tiff like when we start having all [TS]

  these discussions and everyone's telling [TS]

  us you have to get a center channel you [TS]

  have to you can't you can't use the [TS]

  stereo mix it's terrible I asked him [TS]

  like hey you wanna do other stuff it'll [TS]

  apparently sound betters like no that's [TS]

  it just no and okay really I don't [TS]

  either so I don't even know why I'm [TS]

  asking so there you go no we don't want [TS]

  it but yeah I do understand it would be [TS]

  better but there are there are different [TS]

  factors here also like you know how we [TS]

  want it to look how we actually use it [TS]

  how we actually live you know so that's [TS]

  different when it comes to my headphones [TS]

  on the other hand right I actually [TS]

  recently bought a second pair of my [TS]

  awesome best headphones in the world [TS]

  headphones the hi-fi man he6 [TS]

  because they they were discontinued a [TS]

  couple years ago and you kick him [TS]

  anymore so I actually bought a used pair [TS]

  on a forum that was in really like [TS]

  brand-new condition basically and so now [TS]

  I have a backup of those and of course I [TS]

  brought one here so because we're in the [TS]

  middle of a huge long a huge run of new [TS]

  fish shows I'm not gonna listen to that [TS]

  on my crap headphones I want to listen [TS]

  with my awesome headphones so here I am [TS]

  right right in the middle of a huge run [TS]

  of fish shows that before you finish [TS]

  that census like it's like are the fish [TS]

  spawning are they coming up onto the [TS]

  shore and if you get into your house [TS]

  like now nope eh of course [TS]

  well yeah well only one of them is good [TS]

  but is this a thing that happens is like [TS]

  the weather like during the summer [TS]

  that's when the fish shows come [TS]

  [Laughter] [TS]

  Christmas Island crabs they just crawl [TS]

  across the landscape and though there [TS]

  was fish they surely you know the credit [TS]

  am I getting the reference Christmas [TS]

  Island crabs am I getting that right - [TS]

  you know zone no I'm talking about your [TS]

  I see us yeah you're asking the wrong [TS]

  persons person versus people's [TS]

  I think people's the word Rams if you [TS]

  have never googled Christmas Island [TS]

  crabs you need to do that after whatever [TS]

  caused the show Google Christmas on [TS]

  crabs you should watch the videos and [TS]

  look at some of the pictures then come [TS]

  back oh my gosh you have to keep doing [TS]

  the show oh my god what is that what is [TS]

  going on why are they doing this that's [TS]

  when the fish comes and that's the [TS]

  representation of gigabytes of live [TS]

  music of oh my god there's waves and [TS]

  waves of these things and see waves is a [TS]

  very good song there's like three lyrics [TS]

  I'm just just a lot of guitar oh my god [TS]

  yeah got your meat stick right here we [TS]

  are sponsored this week by Squarespace [TS]

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  from Squarespace we got a lot of people [TS]

  a lot of a lot a lot of people write in [TS]

  with opinions about bicycles who knew [TS]

  that so many people who listen this show [TS]

  at opinions about bicycles but there are [TS]

  a lot of people that do and one of the [TS]

  things that was striking to me and I [TS]

  wasn't really paying close attention to [TS]

  the feedback to this because quite [TS]

  frankly I don't care however a ton of [TS]

  people a ton of people wrote in to say [TS]

  that Eila bikes that's is LA which is [TS]

  apparently a UK company so this is [TS]

  www.hyken.com [TS]

  all right exactly so anyways almost [TS]

  unanimously almost everyone who wrote in [TS]

  said oh you should get an Iowa bike [TS]

  they're the best they're expensive but [TS]

  they're the best so I actually took a [TS]

  note that when Declan is of age we need [TS]

  to look at these I love bikes because [TS]

  there was not a single person that said [TS]

  oh don't get in Iowa they're overrated [TS]

  but no everyone said get them so we'll [TS]

  put a link in the show notes to their [TS]

  uk-based website and then what is this [TS]

  video that I presume John put we did get [TS]

  tons of suggestions at first when they [TS]

  first started coming in like boy we'll [TS]

  have lots of links for the show notes [TS]

  I'll put links to all these people's [TS]

  recommended bike manufacturers but then [TS]

  there were just too many like there were [TS]

  just too many things so is buy we just [TS]

  won't move the grd rules Iowa bikes got [TS]

  the most recommendations second most [TS]

  recommendations was whoom bikes wo om [TS]

  bikes calm I think they have a us [TS]

  location because the URL have here is us [TS]

  thought one bikes calm there were a ton [TS]

  of other places these are both obscure [TS]

  some people are recommending less [TS]

  obscure things like REI and specialized [TS]

  but a lot of anyway bottom eyes people [TS]

  are finding bikes that they find [TS]

  satisfying but we'll just put these two [TS]

  links in if you're looking for ones that [TS]

  the majority of parents and/or bike [TS]

  nerds recommending them it was these two [TS]

  yeah well and and there were there were [TS]

  a ton of bike recommendations for what I [TS]

  should get like not just what I should [TS]

  get for my son but also what I should [TS]

  get I think what I what I'd have decided [TS]

  and this is based on not actually riding [TS]

  any of these yet what I want is very [TS]

  very low maintenance and simplicity so [TS]

  there I basically came down to a few [TS]

  things that that became things I really [TS]

  consider requirements that end up ruling [TS]

  out most of what people recommend also [TS]

  preferences so you know because I'm like [TS]

  do be moved if I'm riding in a beach [TS]

  town for instance I wanted like two inch [TS]

  tires not the little skinny one-inch [TS]

  ones that are better for like going fast [TS]

  on roads [TS]

  I want big two-inch one so that it's [TS]

  more comfortable it's better you know [TS]

  better if I like have to go on the edge [TS]

  of one of the walks and go into a little [TS]

  packed sand for a second I won't [TS]

  immediately just like stop and fall over [TS]

  like a skinny tire might you know it's [TS]

  so like stuff like that so basically my [TS]

  list of requirements became I want [TS]

  something that could accommodate two [TS]

  inch tires with fenders and the big ones [TS]

  are I want belt drive instead of a chain [TS]

  and I want there to be no God I don't [TS]

  know how to pronounce [TS]

  do you really order a yearly whatever [TS]

  that thing is [TS]

  yeah whatever the thing is that moves [TS]

  the gears you want you want an internal [TS]

  internal geared hubs and a belt drive [TS]

  you're so you're so trendy like you've [TS]

  never you've never had a bike with any [TS]

  one of these things but you already know [TS]

  that you want them because somebody told [TS]

  you that belt drive is better than a [TS]

  chain internal well ok first of all [TS]

  because the bike I have here now that [TS]

  came in the house in the basement is you [TS]

  know a rusty old mountain bike that has [TS]

  a derailleur and rusty a chain yeah but [TS]

  what but when they work they work fine [TS]

  believe me they're fine no it's not no [TS]

  it's not fine [TS]

  because because now we have better [TS]

  things like it was fine when I was a kid [TS]

  when I had my mountain bike rounds like [TS]

  in high school [TS]

  modern bikes would derail as I swear to [TS]

  you are absolutely fine there and don't [TS]

  use your credit file whatever I didn't I [TS]

  haven't used them either I can't say [TS]

  that they're bad I'm just saying like I [TS]

  don't don't pull them as hard fast [TS]

  requirements they're really funny things [TS]

  John is that they now have bike CVTs oh [TS]

  my god yeah look up NuVinci [TS]

  and it's it they have there's a CVT [TS]

  that's it's like about this it seem like [TS]

  it's about in the same price tier as [TS]

  like [TS]

  decent like 11 speed internal hub I just [TS]

  thought like oh my god if I get a CVT [TS]

  John will die like I will never hear the [TS]

  end of it you know it'll be well you [TS]

  already I mean I was just thinking about [TS]

  this the other day both of you are [TS]

  slowly slowly fading from the manuals [TS]

  Marco doesn't even have anymore Casey [TS]

  well I guess you just replaced an on [TS]

  manual with an my manual but still [TS]

  exactly I'm the only one who's holding [TS]

  strong here anyway you take your CVT and [TS]

  just pretend it has gears just like the [TS]

  software does in most modern cars and [TS]

  it's making noises yeah so basically so [TS]

  my short list right now I'm still [TS]

  looking at various things some of the [TS]

  some of the headliners are priority the [TS]

  priority company and actually ordered [TS]

  our priority coast to have here at the [TS]

  beach house for like a general purpose [TS]

  bike because we have lots of people here [TS]

  TIFF wants to ride one also so I figure [TS]

  I'll get this try it out it's belt drive [TS]

  fixed gear coaster brake so it's very [TS]

  simple it's also fairly affordable it's [TS]

  like 400 bucks so I'm getting that to [TS]

  try it out at the high end if I get into [TS]

  this and I want a nice bike probably for [TS]

  home I am very very taken by the button [TS]

  it's bicycles or I don't I assume it's [TS]

  Browns button it's they're pretty [TS]

  expensive but they're very nice and that [TS]

  they basically make exactly what I want [TS]

  so I'm gonna try to find a showroom and [TS]

  try one of those out if I want a nice [TS]

  bike for home it's probably a little [TS]

  expensive for the beach so for the beach [TS]

  I'm looking at priority honorable [TS]

  mention for Breezer and Electra everyone [TS]

  recommended these two brands and I would [TS]

  like to investigate them like to see [TS]

  them neither of them really make what I [TS]

  want like they don't have all those [TS]

  things as a combination but yeah both [TS]

  Breezer and Electra look really really [TS]

  good also everyone says Trek you know [TS]

  there's a reason why Trek is so big and [TS]

  well-known I find the amount of branding [TS]

  on Trek spikes a little bit garish like [TS]

  they like across like the diagonal bar [TS]

  and the frame it just has those giant [TS]

  letters to say trick like I don't really [TS]

  want that like I want something a little [TS]

  more low-key and subtle which we get a [TS]

  Cannondale yes they do yeah like and [TS]

  yeah so like again like wanting a belt [TS]

  drive internal gearing 2h tires and [TS]

  minimal branding [TS]

  that rules out a lot of people suggest [TS]

  so I will I will follow up if I if I buy [TS]

  anything more I'm gonna do the priority [TS]

  for the you know for the next few days [TS]

  and then you know whatever it arrives [TS]

  try that out and then if I love it [TS]

  I'll just use that if I hate it it'll be [TS]

  the tif slash spare bike here and I'll [TS]

  keep Wow know she wants more question is [TS]

  why do you why do you want fenders [TS]

  because of the drainage on this island [TS]

  is not very good there's often in very [TS]

  large puddles I have to drive through so [TS]

  I just don't want it to splash back up [TS]

  on my back oh and for everybody who's [TS]

  sending me the IKEA bike I did look at [TS]

  the IKEA slaughter bike it is belt drive [TS]

  it has internal two-speed gear it is in [TS]

  my opinion one of the most boring [TS]

  looking bikes I've ever seen I would [TS]

  like a bike to have some visual [TS]

  personality it doesn't but not like not [TS]

  to scream its brand name and giant [TS]

  letters on the frame but to have like [TS]

  maybe a color that isn't just black and [TS]

  grey like that would be nice you know [TS]

  some kind of color is the guy who buys [TS]

  black cars my car is bright red mmm this [TS]

  one was although you know what though [TS]

  this priority beach cruiser bike that I [TS]

  ordered it does happen to be white you [TS]

  know it's funny Marco that can happen to [TS]

  a person from time to time can't it it [TS]

  was the only good color funny how that [TS]

  is Marco you know it can happen to a [TS]

  person from time to time [TS]

  can't it that's funny I can't wait to [TS]

  see pictures of you flow by on Instagram [TS]

  on your delete on your delightful white [TS]

  bike it honestly it looks really good in [TS]

  white white is not a bad bike color [TS]

  it's a terrible car color I think this [TS]

  bike looks super dorky which one the [TS]

  priority coaster I ordered it does yes [TS]

  super dorky this looks like a beach bike [TS]

  to me it's a beach bike yes and this [TS]

  company makes something they make other [TS]

  varieties per these priority bikes they [TS]

  make other varieties that are almost [TS]

  what I want like the the the continuum [TS]

  onyx and the classic Plus Gotham Edition [TS]

  like they're almost what I want but they [TS]

  only have skinny tires and because [TS]

  you know they're made for commuters and [TS]

  stuff so that so yeah that's I'm [TS]

  probably not gonna do that but I don't [TS]

  know anyway so this could be the one [TS]

  with us forever but we are in a huge [TS]

  hurry because we don't have any time to [TS]

  really talk about all these Apple rumors [TS]

  cuz I'm sure no one's heard enough about [TS]

  the MA there's that too we should we [TS]

  should also mention there's one of the [TS]

  link in the show notes with regard to [TS]

  bikes huffy apparently is being eaten by [TS]

  Walmart do you want to explain this John [TS]

  this is actually tangential to the [TS]

  larger Walmart it's a lot of stories [TS]

  about what is ruined by companies [TS]

  involved them pivoting to sell to super [TS]

  stores because that's where all the [TS]

  money is and then having to make [TS]

  crappier and crappier things and getting [TS]

  squeezed by the super stores that demand [TS]

  that you take smaller and smaller profit [TS]

  margins and that's this huffy store is [TS]

  actually something different it's for [TS]

  huffy got into deal with Walmart and [TS]

  didn't realize how many bikes they'd [TS]

  actually sell through Walmart and they [TS]

  couldn't actually manufacture them so [TS]

  they they let their competitors [TS]

  manufacture them and sell them don't [TS]

  make the money from them anyway Walmart [TS]

  is bad and we all feel bad but this is [TS]

  another bit of feedback from Ryan Ricard [TS]

  you said that uh Schwinn and Mongoose [TS]

  both pivoted to be bargain-basement crap [TS]

  for Walmart and Target you know a lot of [TS]

  these companies the name remains kind of [TS]

  like atari or commodore like the [TS]

  Mongoose name remains but it shares [TS]

  nothing with the brand of my youth you [TS]

  know everything about it [TS]

  the way the bikes are designed what [TS]

  they're made of what where they're [TS]

  assembled what their target market is [TS]

  everything is just you know so yeah [TS]

  that's a shame and you can kind of tell [TS]

  why he's looking at him but yeah super [TS]

  stores yeah and yet another thing super [TS]

  stores have tried to ruin bicycles I'm [TS]

  sorry John this is what it is John would [TS]

  you like to say face on your Christmas [TS]

  story line that you tried to quote ATP [TS]

  references uh do me the favor of looking [TS]

  at it's from IMDB and I always like [TS]

  here's what it whenever I look up movie [TS]

  quotes a lot because I want to get them [TS]

  right it's important for me to get them [TS]

  right and to revalidate the correct [TS]

  memory because very often I have a lot [TS]

  of movie quotes in my head and they [TS]

  mutate over time as you repeat them they [TS]

  change a little bit and so like 15 years [TS]

  and according something you're like [TS]

  super duper sure it's one way [TS]

  cuz you've said it a thousand times [TS]

  right but it's changed like through a [TS]

  game of telephone only it's been inside [TS]

  your head the whole time right and so [TS]

  it's changed inside your head anyway I [TS]

  always want to look them up but they [TS]

  don't trust in the internet texts of [TS]

  someone like oh here's this famous quote [TS]

  from this movie because text is not the [TS]

  movie you know the map is not the [TS]

  territory I need to see the video I need [TS]

  to see the clip from the movie and [TS]

  obviously that can be doctored too and I [TS]

  weep for our children who will be able [TS]

  to trust video even less than we do due [TS]

  to the easy ability to synthesize video [TS]

  sorry kids anyway that's progress for [TS]

  you but according to IMDB they up ramble [TS]

  aside the line I was trying to quote [TS]

  last time from Christmas story is the [TS]

  greatest Christmas gift I have ever [TS]

  received or ever would receive I think I [TS]

  missed the Hat greatest Christmas gift I [TS]

  had ever received or would ever receive [TS]

  anyway there it is dears with me but I [TS]

  do care awesome that's I should be the [TS]

  title of my biography no nobody cares [TS]

  but me but I do care [TS]

  the John Syracuse story that's perfect [TS]

  we are sponsored this week by Casper [TS]

  that make the perfect mattress with just [TS]

  the right sink and just the right bounce [TS]

  to learn more visit Casper comm slash [TS]

  ATP and use code ATP for $50 towards any [TS]

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  the science behind a mattress the Casper [TS]

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  and incredibly practical based on tons [TS]

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  is completely easy because you can order [TS]

  online it's delivered to your door in a [TS]

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  you don't like it free returns and they [TS]

  will give you a hundred nights to try it [TS]

  out and see if it's for you you sleep [TS]

  for a hundred nights and if you don't [TS]

  think it's for you you call them up and [TS]

  they give you a no hassle no questions [TS]

  asked [TS]

  free return they arrange for to be [TS]

  picked up at your house it's been [TS]

  available in the US and Canada and now [TS]

  it's also available in the UK so UK [TS]

  people you can now join the casper [TS]

  parade you know if you consider you [TS]

  spend a third of our lives on the [TS]

  mattress that you have it is so [TS]

  important to really get a great mattress [TS]

  to be able to try it out for those [TS]

  hundred days before you commit and to [TS]

  really make sure you got the right one [TS]

  for you if you're just in learning more [TS]

  you can dive deeper into the science [TS]

  behind the perfect mattress and get $50 [TS]

  towards any mattress purchase at Casper [TS]

  comm slash ATP by using code ATP Terms & [TS]

  Conditions do apply thank you very much [TS]

  to Casper for sponsoring our show the [TS]

  good news is not a lot happened this [TS]

  week no things have happened [TS]

  my friends things have happened so let [TS]

  me do my best job as chief summarizer in [TS]

  chief and kind of do a 50,000 foot [TS]

  summary and then we'll dig him to the [TS]

  details which inevitably means you too [TS]

  will interrupt me and I'm about since [TS]

  three and I will never get to complete [TS]

  my summary but there was a home pod [TS]

  firmware that was posted to the place [TS]

  one would expect home pod firmware to be [TS]

  do you guys say firmware firmwares I [TS]

  would say firmware is the plural you [TS]

  would say firmware is like like [TS]

  software's well that's why I would say [TS]

  growing up but for a fleeting moment [TS]

  there I just thought yeah this should it [TS]

  be firmwares no it shouldn't be Wayne [TS]

  isn't isn't where's how you should have [TS]

  your supposed to pronounce W a are easy [TS]

  oh yes that is true yeah yeah did you [TS]

  ever say it that way in your head [TS]

  growing because I always said Juarez and [TS]

  Mexico no I definitely said where's in [TS]

  my head oh my dad where's to this I was [TS]

  gonna say you should cut this but no [TS]

  this is worth it now alright so anyway [TS]

  so where wherever you would expect the [TS]

  home pod firmware singular yet plural to [TS]

  be is where they found somebody had [TS]

  stumbled across [TS]

  upon firmware download and so a couple [TS]

  of people seem to grab a grab onto that [TS]

  well many people but particularly a [TS]

  couple of people seem to grab on this [TS]

  and start digging it apart a friend of [TS]

  the show can you concentrate we're [TS]

  professionals that's seven second ago [TS]

  joke kiba all right let's bring it back [TS]

  together kids bring it back together so [TS]

  two people really dug into this in [TS]

  particular and the two people were Steve [TS]

  John Smith who is a dear friend of the [TS]

  show and gear may Rambo who also did a [TS]

  lot of digging on this and so they found [TS]

  a lot of interesting stuff and the [TS]

  highlights were an image that is for an [TS]

  iPhone that is codenamed D 22 that looks [TS]

  like the image that we've seen off and [TS]

  on of this supposed I phone pro where it [TS]

  seems to be an edge to edge screen [TS]

  there's like a little notch at the top [TS]

  which presumably holds the speaker in [TS]

  the FaceTime camera there was some [TS]

  information about how apparently there [TS]

  will be front-facing IR camera that [TS]

  presumably looks to be for face [TS]

  detection and a bunch of other stuff too [TS]

  but that's kind of the quick quick quick [TS]

  summary so how would we like to dig into [TS]

  this I'll tell you one way we did not [TS]

  want to dig into this is by spring bug [TS]

  spray on our legs earlier so I could [TS]

  we'd whack all the tick infested grass [TS]

  out in front of the house and then [TS]

  coming inside doing a podcast with you [TS]

  fine gentleman putting my hands on my [TS]

  legs and then member my eyes oh that's [TS]

  not wise do you need a moment to collect [TS]

  yourself it's slowly going away I think [TS]

  I might be okay or you might go blind [TS]

  soon next time just accept the bug bites [TS]

  well there's ticks out there oh I'm [TS]

  gonna try not to touch my feet I'm like [TS]

  I was just put it on my legs that way I [TS]

  won't be a problem for the rest of the [TS]

  night like it is when you put it like on [TS]

  your whole body because it's like all [TS]

  you really need for ticks is to put on [TS]

  here on your feet and legs and I found [TS]

  one tick on me I'm Laurie island just a [TS]

  couple days ago and it was not on my [TS]

  legs [TS]

  yikes all right [TS]

  I don't want to hear the rest of that [TS]

  story yeah this sounds super ominous it [TS]

  had not bitten me yet it was still [TS]

  crawling trying to find a place to bite [TS]

  that's good I removed it was prejudice [TS]

  all right so what do we think if d-22 so [TS]

  I think well here's a couple thing so [TS]

  this I don't know if you want to go into [TS]

  the leaking things I guess we're going [TS]

  to that at the end but the information [TS]

  revealed once you leak the home [TS]

  platformer people thinking okay so what [TS]

  who cares they leak the home plot of fur [TS]

  where what the home pods not out yet we [TS]

  already know what it is it's a speaker [TS]

  tourney thing why why would we get any [TS]

  information from that and it's because [TS]

  it runs iOS and iOS has a bunch of crap [TS]

  in it and normally that crap is removed [TS]

  from bills that they release to the [TS]

  public even in the betas they remove all [TS]

  the stuff that they don't want you to [TS]

  see what might they not want you to see [TS]

  icons frameworks you know the names of [TS]

  symbols programmer e-type stuff and the [TS]

  people who pulled down this home plot [TS]

  firmware you know extract that stuff [TS]

  they look at all the frameworks and look [TS]

  at the names of the frameworks and the [TS]

  names of the functions and the symbols [TS]

  that are in them they look at all of the [TS]

  resources for different kinds of icons [TS]

  and graphics and and stuff like that it [TS]

  appears and dialog boxes and in the UI [TS]

  and you can learn a tremendous amount [TS]

  without even executing any of this code [TS]

  just because it happens to be iOS and [TS]

  this bill doesn't help that stuff [TS]

  excluded from it so we learned learned [TS]

  quote-unquote a lot of interesting [TS]

  things just by looking at the framework [TS]

  commands and the symbols and this is the [TS]

  whole frameworks having to do and you [TS]

  know classes and methods having to do [TS]

  with things about face recognition and [TS]

  recognizing different kinds of faces and [TS]

  why would that be in there well we are [TS]

  have the rumors are better recognized in [TS]

  your face you put two together and you [TS]

  say that's probably what that is down to [TS]

  the point where you're looking at like [TS]

  attributes and classes that say like in [TS]

  said and border-radius and stuff that's [TS]

  sort of confirming the idea that the [TS]

  entire edge to edge screen will be [TS]

  addressable with sort of curves around [TS]

  the edges you know and classes that [TS]

  might indicate how they might handle the [TS]

  home button at the bottom of the screen [TS]

  and displaying things there and stuff [TS]

  like that so it's it's kind of tea leaf [TS]

  reading in that we don't have any actual [TS]

  leaked hardware for the phone or [TS]

  anything like that where we just have is [TS]

  a bunch of symbols it functions but if [TS]

  you're a program [TS]

  and you're familiar with uikit and the [TS]

  rest of iOS and just programming in [TS]

  general you can kind of piece together a [TS]

  surprisingly detailed picture of how [TS]

  this new phone might work based on the [TS]

  iOS that was released as part of the [TS]

  home pod you know home pods OS release [TS]

  and so it's kind of a weird kind of a [TS]

  weird leak but it just goes to show that [TS]

  like anything on the internet you don't [TS]

  like it security through obscurity is no [TS]

  security at all it never has been but in [TS]

  the age of the internet even even less [TS]

  so but I was I was fascinated to see the [TS]

  slow leak of people pulling out all the [TS]

  different details of the OS to the point [TS]

  where there was really good blog post by [TS]

  Allen pike where he put so it puts it [TS]

  all together and says based on [TS]

  everything that we've seen here's one [TS]

  way that I think the theoretical phone [TS]

  might work from a software perspective [TS]

  so we've got Hardware rumors and then [TS]

  we've got a link of the home pod thing [TS]

  and then we from that synthesize this [TS]

  entire complete picture of one way that [TS]

  the the OS might work now [TS]

  it could be entirely wrong it could be [TS]

  you know something different than this [TS]

  but I was pretty impressed by this to [TS]

  say you know just the normal parts leak [TS]

  that you get plus a bunch of class dumps [TS]

  and icon files and now we have like a [TS]

  complete iPhone Pro possible scenario [TS]

  supported by all the available leaked [TS]

  evidence though I think it actually is [TS]

  pretty cool if they don't do this I hope [TS]

  they do something just as cool because I [TS]

  read this thing I'm like that a makes [TS]

  sense B fits with everything that we've [TS]

  been leaked and C is pretty neat yeah I [TS]

  completely agree yeah I mean like this [TS]

  it does like I I'm not a fan of the idea [TS]

  of this weird cutout into the screen [TS]

  with the cameras and everything like I [TS]

  don't I don't like that it seems like a [TS]

  weird hack but if they're going to do it [TS]

  this looks like a really cool way to do [TS]

  it like with the the whole idea of [TS]

  having a split status bar such that [TS]

  basically you it's almost as if the [TS]

  screens not cut out it's almost like if [TS]

  applications don't really have access to [TS]

  that area or if you only get it in [TS]

  things like over scroll areas [TS]

  navigation bars and stuff like that then [TS]

  it's still weird but it's a clever it's [TS]

  a clever hack it's a good question about [TS]

  things like where the clock goes and [TS]

  what about a stuff that won't fit in the [TS]

  cutouts like there's a lot in the status [TS]

  bar these days things like not having as [TS]

  much on Android though well that's true [TS]

  yeah I was just about to say the same [TS]

  thing oh my goodness looking at my [TS]

  co-workers Android phone Android phones [TS]

  that have just a mountain of icons up [TS]

  there a new Android phone that I just [TS]

  saw like at fresh out of the box no [TS]

  weird stuff on the Samsung Android phone [TS]

  100 icons in the status bar I may be [TS]

  overestimating but only slightly it's so [TS]

  true it's like a ticker-tape of icons [TS]

  and I think it's I think it's bad it's [TS]

  like a Mac user you've ever seen in your [TS]

  officers 100 icons of the menu bar Casey [TS]

  oh no I have fewer than most thank you [TS]

  very much you just start heating on the [TS]

  ISTEP menus that I have up there but no [TS]

  I like the the fact if you have to [TS]

  install bartender which I'm sure is a [TS]

  very great app if you have to install [TS]

  bartender you have bigger problems my [TS]

  friend then then just moving some of [TS]

  them out of your menu bar like you [TS]

  should just get them out into Oh God I'd [TS]

  hate apps that for some any bar icon of [TS]

  Trajan Hana's oh so actually I've [TS]

  derailed myself looking at the topless [TS]

  notes I mean look looking at the symbols [TS]

  and everything and having face [TS]

  recognition symbols like that is not a [TS]

  big a slam-dunk as people think if we [TS]

  didn't already have the face recognition [TS]

  rumor there's all sorts of weird symbols [TS]

  on there and maybe wouldn't ship maybe [TS]

  it's not ready like we didn't see we [TS]

  didn't see the internal builds of iOS 10 [TS]

  for all we know these symbols could have [TS]

  been in there in iOS 10 they just didn't [TS]

  make the cut you know or something like [TS]

  that or whatever right but we have all [TS]

  those other rumors about being face [TS]

  recognition so this you know but it all [TS]

  adds up right the other part of this [TS]

  though is all the rumors about that a [TS]

  little unibrow thing a little notch to [TS]

  the cut I mean we talked we saw a little [TS]

  notch thing I think we talked about it [TS]

  when we're talking about touch ID being [TS]

  on the back and how they're gonna do a [TS]

  screen thing edge to edge and what they [TS]

  can and can embed in the screen and [TS]

  apparently they can embed like the [TS]

  cameras and if there's gonna be an IR [TS]

  sensor and the speaker and blah blah so [TS]

  this is not CH I think one of you may be [TS]

  Marco thought it was the not just [TS]

  doesn't seem like an apple thing to do [TS]

  way back when when we talked about it [TS]

  you know it's not elegant like you just [TS]

  said before like the notch seems weird [TS]

  doesn't it like it wouldn't it be great [TS]

  if the whole thing was [TS]

  it would be oh but we can't quite pull [TS]

  it off so what can we do well we'll do [TS]

  the best we can and leave this little [TS]

  notch right and that's always been the [TS]

  question though Apple wouldn't do it [TS]

  unless they could do the whole screen [TS]

  they're not gonna do a little notch [TS]

  thing kind of like people saying apples [TS]

  not going to put a camera that causes a [TS]

  bulge but they totally did because it's [TS]

  more worth it to have a really good [TS]

  camera than to make the back of a smooth [TS]

  so camera bulge here to stay and so in [TS]

  the home pod firmware at leak there is [TS]

  an icon for d-22 that is just it's not a [TS]

  picture of the new iPhone it is it's an [TS]

  icon like a little vector drawing or [TS]

  whatever other thing but it has to look [TS]

  like carnac that's let you know by [TS]

  looking at this little icon this is the [TS]

  phone we're talking about so if just [TS]

  basically like a rounded rectangle I [TS]

  imagine for the seven and seven plus [TS]

  sizes right but this one has the notch [TS]

  in it and it's the only thing in it it [TS]

  is a rounded rectangle and the only [TS]

  distinguishing characteristic Oh than [TS]

  the width and height and the border [TS]

  radius is the knotch [TS]

  and so this is a pretty hard [TS]

  confirmation of that notch because [TS]

  they're not waffling about whether it's [TS]

  give me a notch at this point there's no [TS]

  this this icon is in there and it [TS]

  doesn't seem like they would have this [TS]

  thing and the codename d-22 is right on [TS]

  what you expect it to be so this thing's [TS]

  gonna have a notch and that's weird [TS]

  and that's it's like the camera bump but [TS]

  even worse it's not as bad as touch ID [TS]

  on the back but it is a weird thing to [TS]

  do and so you know Apple rumors are that [TS]

  this this all screen OLED phone has been [TS]

  in the works for a long time and not [TS]

  them say it's behind schedule but I bet [TS]

  Apple would have loved to ship it last [TS]

  year but they couldn't it wasn't ready [TS]

  it now it's ready they're going with the [TS]

  notch so for me from this leak the most [TS]

  important thing about it is notches it [TS]

  go get ready get ready for not you're [TS]

  ready to love the notch get ready to [TS]

  deal with the notch get ready to fix [TS]

  your application that gets screwed up [TS]

  when the notches they're also on a press [TS]

  conversation about hey they change the [TS]

  dots to be bars you think they did that [TS]

  to get make room for the notch I think [TS]

  and it was like wow maybe but we didn't [TS]

  know if this is gonna be a notch well [TS]

  it's gonna be a notch so no more dots [TS]

  back to bars makes perfect sense I think [TS]

  what I like about this leak though is [TS]

  that it gives us enough to be really [TS]

  interested in this but there's still so [TS]

  much that we don't know that we're only [TS]

  going to know once we see the software [TS]

  running on this phone but we're probably [TS]

  we're almost certainly not going to see [TS]

  before the event so like even though [TS]

  like leading up to this we we had the [TS]

  idea of a lot of the major themes of [TS]

  this device leading up you know for [TS]

  almost the last year in all the rumors [TS]

  and everything but we didn't know many [TS]

  specifics and most of the most of the [TS]

  things we that we'd see like leaked or [TS]

  rumored or talked about here and there [TS]

  would be very vague and very unsure of [TS]

  themselves and oftentimes conflicting [TS]

  and so now even though this is now like [TS]

  pretty strong evidence of it being a [TS]

  certain way and so some of that surprise [TS]

  is now kind of spoiled what we have now [TS]

  learned you know and again it's not like [TS]

  knowledge it's not it isn't the fact it [TS]

  isn't a guarantee it's just very strong [TS]

  evidence in a certain direction [TS]

  but what this you know nearly confirms [TS]

  is not something that we is was totally [TS]

  unknown to us like there were rumors of [TS]

  all these things there were rumors of [TS]

  the notch there rumors of the face [TS]

  detection type stuff and depth cameras [TS]

  and everything like all that stuff what [TS]

  was rumored for months and that and that [TS]

  was already becoming the dominant [TS]

  narrative of the rumors that was [TS]

  becoming like where most of them were [TS]

  were kind of coalescing and gathering so [TS]

  it didn't actually spoil much surprise [TS]

  it just kind of like says all right this [TS]

  group of the rumors which was already [TS]

  the predominant ones this is probably on [TS]

  the right path but there's still so many [TS]

  questions that it's still very [TS]

  interesting to us and most of those [TS]

  questions are not going to be answered [TS]

  until the event they added some [TS]

  information to like again with the [TS]

  symbol dumps stuff that we wouldn't have [TS]

  known normally until the keynote because [TS]

  is software based right so there's a [TS]

  bunch of symbols having to do with [TS]

  apparently the camera detecting what it [TS]

  is you're taking a picture up you're [TS]

  taking a picture of person is it a plant [TS]

  it is a son is it a sunset is it you [TS]

  know whatever it might be [TS]

  most modern regular cameras have [TS]

  something oh I can tell it's portrait [TS]

  versus landscape as I do simple face [TS]

  detection but this was way more detail [TS]

  my friend a link to put all things but [TS]

  it was like figuring out in a fairly [TS]

  detailed manner what it is you're [TS]

  looking at and what we'll do with that [TS]

  information besides putting the word hot [TS]

  dog or not hot dog on the screen like [TS]

  presumably you can adjust the camera [TS]

  based on what it's looking at I get that [TS]

  good [TS]

  it could metadata tag them or something [TS]

  I mean who knows but like those symbols [TS]

  are in there for you know and there's [TS]

  all sorts of other stuff about face [TS]

  detection or we assume that face [TS]

  detection where is that the face is half [TS]

  covered the face is smiling or frowning [TS]

  or like all tons of symbols that only [TS]

  make sense if if this phone with these [TS]

  set of sensors on it can figure out way [TS]

  more about what it's looking at whether [TS]

  it's looking at it to take a picture or [TS]

  looking at it to unlock your phone or [TS]

  whatever all these symbols indicate that [TS]

  there surely features somewhere in iOS [TS]

  11 running on this phone that are based [TS]

  on the camera having a much richer [TS]

  awareness of what's going on around it [TS]

  also including like presence detection [TS]

  are you in front of the phone or [TS]

  whatever so that I think added [TS]

  information none of that stuff had been [TS]

  rumored like wow you know we the rumors [TS]

  that oh it's gonna have camera and a [TS]

  notch and an IR sensor and face [TS]

  detection unlocking that's all the stuff [TS]

  that would leak but but the key note [TS]

  would be like oh and also now that we [TS]

  have all those sensors you know we can [TS]

  do we can know when you take a picture [TS]

  of a dog and tag it with dog and make [TS]

  this the smart search easier when you [TS]

  search for dog even if you took a [TS]

  picture of the tip of the dog's tail we [TS]

  you know we figured that out and like I [TS]

  don't like features like that are things [TS]

  normally we don't get to see until the [TS]

  day up so I think this is one of the [TS]

  biggest software leaks that has ever [TS]

  happened to Apple because I think it [TS]

  reveals potentially so much about stuff [TS]

  that they're gonna demo that they just [TS]

  assumed no one would know about because [TS]

  in general the software doesn't leak [TS]

  this I mean this is this is legal stuff [TS]

  this is a pretty big leak in terms of [TS]

  just oops [TS]

  like we didn't mean to put this build [TS]

  there by the way people wondering why [TS]

  why is this build accessible at all home [TS]

  pods have been testing on Apple [TS]

  employees and other people who were in [TS]

  the know have been testing home pods for [TS]

  a long time and they have a feed for [TS]

  software updates but that is a fee that [TS]

  is not accessible to the general public [TS]

  is only accessible to Apple employees [TS]

  right someone made a mistake and took [TS]

  the firmware that's supposed to go in [TS]

  that feed it's only accessible to Apple [TS]

  employees and put it on the public [TS]

  facing one and that is a pretty big [TS]

  mistake like it's kind of like taking [TS]

  you know I don't know like iOS 11 before [TS]

  any of the betas came out and putting it [TS]

  on a publicly accessible URL on the [TS]

  Internet and again it's security through [TS]

  obscurity it's like what [TS]

  you put something on a URL it's [TS]

  accessible Internet as long as no one [TS]

  knows the URL it's like people are [TS]

  randomly typing in URLs to guess where [TS]

  your thing might be that's exactly what [TS]

  they're doing and that you are always [TS]

  guessable because you just replace the [TS]

  word TV with the word audio in an [TS]

  existing URL for the TV OS updates and [TS]

  guess what you got this and somebody had [TS]

  a really bad day at Apple and I feel bad [TS]

  because you know it's you're human you [TS]

  make mistakes it just goes to show all [TS]

  the security and all these billions of [TS]

  dollars they spend you know it's not I [TS]

  don't think there's some malicious just [TS]

  someone someone made a mistake we don't [TS]

  like a snake sometimes you leave a phone [TS]

  in a bar sometimes sometimes you upload [TS]

  the the unredacted version of the new [TS]

  iOS that includes all the secret symbols [TS]

  for your new super secret phone onto a [TS]

  public URL and so I feel I feel kind of [TS]

  bad but I'm also kind of excited about [TS]

  exactly how much we were able to mine [TS]

  out of this and like Margot said and [TS]

  still and still we're not sure still we [TS]

  have to wait for the keynote to see [TS]

  which things are which it's a it's a [TS]

  little bit of spoiling Christmas morning [TS]

  to know how you know because I can [TS]

  extrapolate so many things that could [TS]

  possibly be there and the keynote will [TS]

  just be a narrowing but still pretty [TS]

  exciting do you um I don't have the link [TS]

  handy but there maybe it was now ins I [TS]

  don't think it was though but anyways [TS]

  there was someone who was critiquing no [TS]

  was a different UI designer critiquing [TS]

  what do you do with the knotch and [TS]

  there's like one of the approaches he [TS]

  approaches is you pretend the notch [TS]

  isn't really there and one of the [TS]

  approaches is you embrace the knotch and [TS]

  I think it was Steve trout and Smith [TS]

  that was saying oh I say embrace the [TS]

  notch you know make it visible make it [TS]

  plain but from what I see on like for [TS]

  example Alan's post where it's just a [TS]

  big black bar and presumably this is [TS]

  OLED so it would just kind of all blend [TS]

  in and there would just be this big gap [TS]

  in the center of the black bar but you [TS]

  wouldn't necessarily be able to tell [TS]

  very well what was there I think I like [TS]

  that at a glance more than this like [TS]

  embrace the notch make it white to the [TS]

  left and the right of the knotch what do [TS]

  you guys think about that let's start [TS]

  with Marco totally with you [TS]

  I think the design that makes the parts [TS]

  left and right of the not just black it [TS]

  makes it look like a big status bar that [TS]

  and to me is by far the best-looking [TS]

  option here [TS]

  and that is the one matter I think they [TS]

  should and hopefully will do but there [TS]

  is there is a risk I don't know if it's [TS]

  a big risk there's a risk that the [TS]

  desire to have these like over these [TS]

  like overflow areas these over scroll [TS]

  areas in the UI some wonder how like you [TS]

  know when I was seven ever since I was [TS]

  seven you've had like if you have like a [TS]

  navigation bar or a tool bar in an [TS]

  interface you could you have like the [TS]

  blurred version of the scroll view in [TS]

  the middle kind of under hanging though [TS]

  like the top and bottom like it kind of [TS]

  overflowed in those areas as you scroll [TS]

  I can see maybe the Apple UI designers [TS]

  wanting to do more of that with this [TS]

  newfound screen real estate and to have [TS]

  the to have these new areas both the [TS]

  little tabs next to the status bar and [TS]

  also the new like presumed home button [TS]

  area at the bottom I could see those [TS]

  becoming just over scroll areas but I [TS]

  hope they don't do that I hope if [TS]

  anything if they want to do that just [TS]

  make at the bottom one and not little [TS]

  tabs on top because having this big like [TS]

  you know file card shaped UI I think [TS]

  looks weird I don't like having those [TS]

  two tabs at the top be visibly like [TS]

  light-colored UI I think it should just [TS]

  look like a big status bar and you [TS]

  shouldn't even really really really [TS]

  think about the notch most of the time I [TS]

  agree so as I think it was Steve drought [TS]

  and Smith pointed this out but I think [TS]

  as well the thing that we extracted we [TS]

  the thing that has been extracted by an [TS]

  industrious hackers from the firmware is [TS]

  an icon of the phone and it's supposed [TS]

  to be identifiable so you look at that [TS]

  you know oh they're talking about [TS]

  whatever the iPhone Pro or the iPhone 8 [TS]

  or wherever this thing's gonna be called [TS]

  so it needs to be a recognizable symbol [TS]

  at small sizes and the only [TS]

  distinguishing feature of that icon is [TS]

  the knotch [TS]

  so for in order to be able to look at [TS]

  that and say oh that means my phone [TS]

  which is the purpose of the icon that [TS]

  knotch has to be a distinguishing [TS]

  visible cat or visual characteristics of [TS]

  the phone as far as the users are [TS]

  concerned otherwise that icon is not [TS]

  useful for identifying it so that could [TS]

  be as simple as okay well it works [TS]

  exactly like you guys were just [TS]

  describing when you use it like it we [TS]

  pretend it's not there and just like the [TS]

  status bar but the lockscreen [TS]

  for example when we show your big [TS]

  lockscreen picture that shows with the [TS]

  notch all the time because that would [TS]

  make you know that's your first [TS]

  experience of turning on the phone you [TS]

  know we're seeing the lock screen or [TS]

  whatever that oh it's got a notch right [TS]

  if the knotch goes away when you launch [TS]

  apps you still recognize it as the phone [TS]

  with the notch because that's what you [TS]

  see when you first turn it on but I [TS]

  think at the very least Apple is [TS]

  embracing the notch to the degree to the [TS]

  degree that this icon is representative [TS]

  it doesn't mean you're gonna see it the [TS]

  whole time you're using it inside [TS]

  applications but it does mean that [TS]

  they're embracing it somewhere probably [TS]

  in the lock screen maybe also in [TS]

  springboard maybe also I mean I'm trying [TS]

  to think of you know if developers [TS]

  wanted to could they addressed it in [TS]

  show video and the knotch [TS]

  like overflow video bleeped like who [TS]

  knows how far it availables would be [TS]

  able to go but it seems clear to me that [TS]

  Apple in the same way they essentially [TS]

  embrace the camera by saying we're not [TS]

  hiding it it's there it's a camera bump [TS]

  look at it there's gonna be a notch and [TS]

  I think there has to be at least some [TS]

  context where the notch is absolutely [TS]

  visible and distinguished and a [TS]

  distinguishing characteristic to people [TS]

  I also would prefer like both of you [TS]

  alright fine I see the notch I get your [TS]

  branding I can identify my phone but [TS]

  once I'm using the application don't you [TS]

  know I know I don't need it doesn't need [TS]

  to be emphasized you can make it [TS]

  disappear with a nice status bar [TS]

  hopefully that's up to developers if [TS]

  developers want to do something fancy [TS]

  with the notch maybe they can and the [TS]

  same way you can mess with the status [TS]

  bar in weird ways to varying degrees and [TS]

  although I couldn't change the color of [TS]

  the status bar to anything you wanted [TS]

  back in the old days and they kind of [TS]

  clamped down on that no you could never [TS]

  you could have it be like white or black [TS]

  but you could never have it be arbitrary [TS]

  colors you could have a translucent one [TS]

  and kind of put like a window behind it [TS]

  you know to make it kind of fake to kind [TS]

  of fake it but I don't know of any apps [TS]

  that really ever did that with any [TS]

  success yeah and I actually you know [TS]

  either way they go with this I think the [TS]

  bottom part of the screen is actually [TS]

  more interesting that gets into what [TS]

  Allen Pike was talking about so the top [TS]

  line we assume it's a status bar and [TS]

  there's some interesting things you can [TS]

  do by you know getting you know going [TS]

  bleeding the pixels up higher on the [TS]

  screen because this it's almost edge to [TS]

  edge especially if you incorporate [TS]

  dodging to the status bar but the action [TS]

  happens down at the bottom where all of [TS]

  a sudden you've got all the screen [TS]

  where there used to be a hardware home [TS]

  button and of course you can draw a [TS]

  software home button there but you've [TS]

  got all this other space where you can [TS]

  draw things to what might you use that [TS]

  for and one of Allen Pike suggestions [TS]

  take your UI navbar wherever that class [TS]

  is called [TS]

  and take the current awkward arrangement [TS]

  with lots of white space and take those [TS]

  navigation controls like done or edit or [TS]

  whatever those little words that are up [TS]

  in the corner that are hard to reach in [TS]

  your big phone and shove them down next [TS]

  to the home button because now that's [TS]

  all a screen and it's actually easier to [TS]

  reach there's been a lot of articles [TS]

  recently about how it's easier to reach [TS]

  the bottom of your really big phone with [TS]

  your thumb the top of the really big [TS]

  phone so bottom navigation becomes more [TS]

  preferable than it was back in the days [TS]

  of the original iPhone size or even the [TS]

  5 size and it makes a lot of sense like [TS]

  whether they do that or not you look up [TS]

  and you go oh ok well that would work [TS]

  and it would make sense based on the [TS]

  design we currently see in iOS 11 betas [TS]

  but maybe they won't do that maybe what [TS]

  can you do with the bottom you've got a [TS]

  lot of pixels down there apples is [TS]

  surely gonna reserve some of them for OS [TS]

  related functions in in the sort of the [TS]

  default case where you don't want to go [TS]

  you know a full bleed video or whatever [TS]

  you could do interesting stuff down [TS]

  there instead of just showing a circle [TS]

  where you put your thumb presumably to [TS]

  use touch ID sensor that's [TS]

  may or may not be buried under the [TS]

  screen yeah it's funny because I feel [TS]

  like we have learned a lot in this leak [TS]

  but I think you guys are right that I [TS]

  don't know that we've learned all that [TS]

  much but we've more gotten some soft [TS]

  confirmation of a lot of the things that [TS]

  were already suspected and though I [TS]

  still think this is the second biggest [TS]

  leak that I've ever witnessed as [TS]

  compared to the what was at the iPhone 4 [TS]

  that was found in the bar yep so I think [TS]

  that still takes the cake for the [TS]

  biggest leak but man this is a close [TS]

  second and and it's fascinating like I [TS]

  feel kind of bad for the Apple [TS]

  developers like the developers within [TS]

  Apple that have been working on this [TS]

  stuff and have been really sweating this [TS]

  and and we're hoping for the big splash [TS]

  surprise like that article was I think [TS]

  was that article that float floated [TS]

  around a like a month ago that talked [TS]

  about this but any or but or maybe was [TS]

  on the talk show live [TS]

  what was it doesn't matter somewhere [TS]

  they were saying you know really it's [TS]

  it's a bummer for the employees when [TS]

  something leaks the other employees and [TS]

  that kind of stinks but I do think it is [TS]

  fascinating and super cool how you know [TS]

  a couple of [TS]

  a couple of [TS]

  developers in particular have been able [TS]

  to kind of figure out all of this stuff [TS]

  just by going spelunking into the [TS]

  firmware and I should have expected [TS]

  something like this from a man with the [TS]

  surname of Rambo I mean this is how it [TS]

  this is how the Rambo's work right [TS]

  that's what we learned from the movies [TS]

  before and I just got from the firmware [TS]

  but like it's interesting to me that [TS]

  with home pod we reverted to the old [TS]

  nomenclature is back on the original [TS]

  iPhone the iPhone came with firmware [TS]

  because the phone phones don't run OS is [TS]

  silly its firmware right I'm obviously [TS]

  that's before you know it was called [TS]

  iPhone OS after that I believe and then [TS]

  it switched to iOS right but now on the [TS]

  home pod because it's so we'll see and [TS]

  doesn't have a screen even though [TS]

  they've extracted a screen resolution as [TS]

  far as iOS is concerned a very small [TS]

  screen resolution and potentially an [TS]

  humble number of addressable LEDs blah [TS]

  blah blah anyway now it's back to [TS]

  firmware it's like it's called you know [TS]

  the reason I got this in the URLs they [TS]

  change TV OS to audio uh so if you want [TS]

  to give it a name TV OS runs on Apple TV [TS]

  I owe s runs on you know iPhones and [TS]

  iPods and iPads and audio us runs on the [TS]

  home pod but we don't call it audio as [TS]

  it's still it's stuck in from I guess [TS]

  you got a starting firmware and work [TS]

  your way up do we start referring you to [TS]

  your actual OS update yeah that's a [TS]

  little bit weird I guess I want to make [TS]

  it seem like an embedded things also in [TS]

  case you were wondering about the Amazon [TS]

  echo show and the potential we discussed [TS]

  many times of Apple's home thing that [TS]

  sits in your home having a screen on it [TS]

  naming the thing audio s obviously [TS]

  doesn't nothing because you can rename [TS]

  or whatever you want they renamed their [TS]

  rests all the time but it's a pretty [TS]

  strong stake in the ground of this [TS]

  product or this product we already know [TS]

  but like in case you're wondering do [TS]

  they expect the operating system to do a [TS]

  lot of displaying of pictures no it's [TS]

  called audio OS like whether or not it [TS]

  has a screen that can show weird symbols [TS]

  or an addressable grid of LEDs under a [TS]

  diffuser or whatever the OS is all about [TS]

  audio any other thoughts about all this [TS]

  not really sure there's stuff that I [TS]

  forgot to put in the notes but there was [TS]

  there was so much so much stuff that was [TS]

  leaked and so many people digging and [TS]

  this that I couldn't even keep up with [TS]

  it yeah I feel like this should be like [TS]

  a four hour conversation for us but I [TS]

  really feel like we've we've kind of [TS]

  touched on all of it so well and also [TS]

  like I mean as Parker said before [TS]

  everything that's in this leak have been [TS]

  discussed before with the exception of a [TS]

  few additional symbols that lean towards [TS]

  features that hadn't been you know that [TS]

  could have been imagined but that hadn't [TS]

  been thought about you know like the [TS]

  camera understanding was taking a [TS]

  picture of and adjusting things but you [TS]

  can extrapolate that from the sensors [TS]

  and it shows how imagination plus the [TS]

  usual hardware supply chain leaks can [TS]

  get us most of the way there anyway [TS]

  OLED we've known forever screen [TS]

  edge-to-edge we've also known forever [TS]

  face detection was a big leak and then [TS]

  IR a sensor isn't like that how to [TS]

  support it touch a D in the screen [TS]

  versus the back is still up in the air [TS]

  nothing in this it goes one way or the [TS]

  other I think and then the home pod leak [TS]

  would just nail all that dying for us [TS]

  but we were already talking about all [TS]

  those things like I feel bad for the [TS]

  employees blah blah blah well if this [TS]

  leak could not happen [TS]

  we'd all be watching that keynote saying [TS]

  I can't wait to see the OLED phone that [TS]

  does face recognition with the next ice [TS]

  cream potentially with a notch in it [TS]

  like we were already there it's just you [TS]

  know it's just confirming stuff we're [TS]

  you know so you know it's it continues [TS]

  to be hard for Apple to be secretive [TS]

  about something that it's going to build [TS]

  literally millions of like months ahead [TS]

  of time like someone's gonna build them [TS]

  human beings are gonna build them and [TS]

  this information has value to many [TS]

  different parties the least of which is [TS]

  a bunch of Apple in there it's like as [TS]

  values like people who are designing [TS]

  cases or making clones or competitive [TS]

  they're like it's it's really it's [TS]

  really hard to keep this kind of secret [TS]

  and Apple continues to prove that but no [TS]

  matter how much money you have no matter [TS]

  how careful you are we're gonna find out [TS]

  about your phone Mac Pro is gonna be [TS]

  pretty secret though let me tell you [TS]

  yeah we were sponsored this week by [TS]

  audible with an unmatched selection of [TS]

  audiobooks original audio shows news [TS]

  comedy and more get a free 30-day trial [TS]

  at audible.com slash ATP if you want to [TS]

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  trial today by signing up at audible.com [TS]

  slash ATP that's audible.com slash ATP [TS]

  thanks to audible for sponsoring our [TS]

  show what do you have John about this [TS]

  nickname that a grouper reported the [TS]

  Ferrari nickname yeah iPhone D 22s [TS]

  nickname may have been Ferrari oh yeah [TS]

  that make that makes perfect sense [TS]

  because we've all been talking about [TS]

  this phone in in that kind of way as [TS]

  they're gonna make phones like the 7 and [TS]

  the 7 plus and they're gonna be fine [TS]

  phones and those the normal ones but [TS]

  then there's the fancy one a fancy one [TS]

  is you know edge to edge screen and made [TS]

  of exact materials and gonna be more [TS]

  expensive and you know Ferrari it's the [TS]

  perfect name for it it's like it's not [TS]

  the phone that everybody's gonna have [TS]

  and a lot of the stories and a lot of [TS]

  Gruber's writing about has been about [TS]

  how hey this will be phone to be more [TS]

  expensive because though I make it the [TS]

  same price as the other ones it's called [TS]

  you know you're going to segment the [TS]

  market like good better best or whatever [TS]

  and be how they probably can't make as [TS]

  many of these like if this was the only [TS]

  iPhone that potentially they wouldn't be [TS]

  able to make as many of them because one [TS]

  or more parts in that are not being able [TS]

  to be manufactured in volume and the [TS]

  meta point about the Ferrari phone is [TS]

  like if Apple can only ever put [TS]

  technology in its phones that it can [TS]

  make 60 million of like for a launch day [TS]

  or whatever it's going to be a [TS]

  disadvantage against competitors that [TS]

  only have to make like [TS]

  million phones if you can make two [TS]

  million phones feel like I just need two [TS]

  million of this special awesome screen [TS]

  and apples like oh that screen is [TS]

  awesome we would love to put that screen [TS]

  that iPhone is sorry we can only make [TS]

  two million of those and they will [TS]

  apples like well we need 60 million well [TS]

  we can't make them any of that screen [TS]

  you can't put that screen your phone so [TS]

  this gives them an addition to [TS]

  segmenting the market like oh you want [TS]

  to pay even more for an iPhone Apple is [TS]

  happy to accommodate you yay what can we [TS]

  put in this phone that's worth the extra [TS]

  money [TS]

  what could make it look cooler we could [TS]

  have fancy features like the face [TS]

  detection and the edge to edge screen [TS]

  and we can put components in it that we [TS]

  can only make 12 million over 15 million [TS]

  of them said of 60 mm making these [TS]

  numbers up but like whatever like and [TS]

  the Ferrari name fits of debt Ferraris [TS]

  cars that cost more than other cars they [TS]

  make fewer of them and they're really [TS]

  fancy so and Eddy Cue is on the board of [TS]

  Ferrari so everything fits it all works [TS]

  yeah yeah all right so no more thoughts [TS]

  on this leak I feel bad for the [TS]

  responsible party though my goodness I [TS]

  can't tell if my water smells like DEET [TS]

  or if my hands smell you deep that are [TS]

  handling the waters stop stop eating bug [TS]

  spray Marco it's gonna affect the show [TS]

  eventually Marco's I can tell Marc was [TS]

  drinking and I can tell when he's eating [TS]

  bug spray he is high today hey there's [TS]

  no more iPods except the iPod Touch [TS]

  which could be only one [TS]

  yeah that's Highlander John hi Liam yeah [TS]

  went over my head at least don't worry [TS]

  I'm still okay I didn't get a reference [TS]

  Oh can't get there can be only one this [TS]

  is a new low folks one isn't the most [TS]

  well-known reference the market will not [TS]

  get Highlander is now there can be only [TS]

  one is now in the lead [TS]

  I mean if you're talking about like most [TS]

  popular things that I haven't seen you [TS]

  got to go probably Lord of the Rings or [TS]

  Harry Potter or maybe Star Trek but but [TS]

  you but you know but this is differently [TS]

  you don't expect you to have seen [TS]

  Highlander we're not crazy but you know [TS]

  that is that is a reference to [TS]

  Highlander like it's at a very popular [TS]

  engine I mean we use many many times you [TS]

  don't have to have ever seen the movie [TS]

  to know that that anyway but I think [TS]

  that's the top of the leaderboard now [TS]

  because I would say that is pretty well [TS]

  known [TS]

  anyway no more ipods sometimes I forget [TS]

  they still make them like I feel like [TS]

  that's the like the best time for Apple [TS]

  to discontinue a product quietly like [TS]

  this is when half people who hear the [TS]

  news say oh they still made those yeah [TS]

  like that's that probably is a good [TS]

  indicator that they that they killed in [TS]

  an appropriate time it was not too soon [TS]

  it might have been too late but it was [TS]

  not too soon and yeah I mean this is if [TS]

  anything I think this is I mean first of [TS]

  all yeah probably long overdue but [TS]

  second of all this might help usher in [TS]

  the post iTunes era because one of the [TS]

  biggest reasons that iTunes has to keep [TS]

  existing is because it's the only way to [TS]

  sync music on to iPods so maybe this [TS]

  will help that I don't know I mean I [TS]

  know this is up there with like the Mac [TS]

  App Store rewrite as incredibly unlikely [TS]

  predictions I've made recently but I [TS]

  don't know that they if they're going to [TS]

  do it they have to lay the groundwork to [TS]

  finally like fix / replace iTunes and [TS]

  one of the biggest ways to do that is [TS]

  first of all get rid of the need for to [TS]

  ever run on Windows and then second of [TS]

  all get rid of the need for it to sync [TS]

  iPods and like if you can do those [TS]

  things which are related you can clear [TS]

  out a lot of the need for it to hold on [TS]

  to all this old Kroft there was a leak [TS]

  related to that actually I think it was [TS]

  actually a Mac OS leaked some sort of [TS]

  thing in Mac OS that was like oh you [TS]

  know like quick looking on a video or [TS]

  something was like open this in in [TS]

  movies or something like that instead of [TS]

  open in iTunes right it was like a [TS]

  string for a dialog box thing that [TS]

  opened it in one of Apple's incredibly [TS]

  boring Lee named applications like [TS]

  there's no more iTunes now we have an [TS]

  application called movies and an [TS]

  application called podcasts and an [TS]

  application called music and that is [TS]

  totally what Apple would do was their [TS]

  super boring games anyway that's coming [TS]

  we all know something like that is [TS]

  coming and you're right getting rid of [TS]

  the iPods does does help it what if they [TS]

  don't use those boring names [TS]

  what if they pull a planet of the apps [TS]

  and they call every single one of the [TS]

  new apps Apple music yeah that would [TS]

  make just as much sense as this TV shows [TS]

  on Apple music well they did call it [TS]

  Audio os2 they have they always have to [TS]

  every time they solve solve a naming [TS]

  problem by like a lining [TS]

  stupid capitalization of all the row [TS]

  asses to be worse uniformly worse then [TS]

  they make a new crisis of naming which [TS]

  is like you no audio OS and Apple music [TS]

  with TV shows on it but they'll sort it [TS]

  out yeah so I don't know what the [TS]

  timeline is and those things seems like [TS]

  a lot to bite off but I'm you know even [TS]

  though it is totally fine to get rid of [TS]

  the iPods like their time has come there [TS]

  are still people who miss things about [TS]

  them and you know not that I miss the [TS]

  products specifically about I miss Apple [TS]

  being in that market so what kind of [TS]

  mark are we talking about well a lot of [TS]

  people have been running about missing [TS]

  the shuffle because it's just so darn [TS]

  small and some people don't want to [TS]

  strap a phone to them and like oh I just [TS]

  got an Apple watch that's the the watch [TS]

  is the new shuffle right you don't you [TS]

  know you just wear your watch and does [TS]

  so much more than the shuffle does the [TS]

  shuffle is kind of like being in some of [TS]

  the same markets is Fitbit and make an [TS]

  incredibly cheap thing that you don't [TS]

  mind too much when you put it through [TS]

  the washing machine does one simple [TS]

  thing well now that it has them in the [TS]

  shuffle a long time it's that one simple [TS]

  thing not really well because getting [TS]

  music on it was super pain but imagine [TS]

  something that was similar form factor [TS]

  and price to the iPod shuffle but you [TS]

  never needed to connect the iTunes like [TS]

  they did everything wirelessly and it's [TS]

  sync with all your music and you know [TS]

  like people would buy that for 50 bucks [TS]

  Apple doesn't want to be in the market [TS]

  to sell you that little Terrier 50 bucks [TS]

  like they've stayed in it a lot longer [TS]

  than anyone thought they would [TS]

  who knows how cheaply they can [TS]

  manufacture those things now but it's [TS]

  kind of a shame that Apple doesn't want [TS]

  to go that far down they just want to [TS]

  sell you glass rectangles of varying [TS]

  sizes the smallest one they're gonna [TS]

  make so far it's gonna be on your watch [TS]

  that's probably great for everybody but [TS]

  the Apple watch is not the same market [TS]

  as 50 dollar piece of crap electronic [TS]

  thing that you just clip on to your [TS]

  clothes that is you know incredibly [TS]

  lightweight and that has access to all [TS]

  of your music like effortlessly so I [TS]

  hope to see like the return of the [TS]

  shuffle like if Apple if the Apple I [TS]

  used to be successful five years from [TS]

  now or whatever you know the watch gets [TS]

  super cheap and travels down to that [TS]

  segment or some other you know some [TS]

  other things some other sort of you can [TS]

  find it in a box of cereal incredibly [TS]

  cheap don't really worry about it too [TS]

  much but also incredibly light and also [TS]

  empowered by Apple's sort of ecosystem [TS]

  like all the stuff they have all you [TS]

  your podcasts or music and you know all [TS]

  the clouds stuff I mean talk about [TS]

  having cellular to the Apple watch which [TS]

  we talked about many years ago as an [TS]

  inevitability you know a tiny iPod [TS]

  shuffle that has access to your entire [TS]

  library of music and podcast [TS]

  it also has cell access that cost 50 [TS]

  bucks like I would love that product in [TS]

  10-15 years so I hope not that the iPod [TS]

  comes back but that form-factor come [TS]

  back and that Apple doesn't rosanna it [TS]

  doesn't continue to travel up market [TS]

  without remembering they can also extend [TS]

  down market as well I think ultimately [TS]

  the the biggest problem and probably the [TS]

  reason why this was killed and why this [TS]

  doesn't exist you know it hops us Krantz [TS]

  I major let me let him in so I had a [TS]

  tough love I ferberize my dog he's [TS]

  whining out there she's whining out [TS]

  there and you know I just just wait it [TS]

  out eventually you know we put it on [TS]

  airplane mode what does that even mean I [TS]

  don't want to make fun of you so badly [TS]

  for that but that is genius all right so [TS]

  I think one of the reasons why they [TS]

  killed the iPods now and and why I think [TS]

  John your hope for a shuffle is totally [TS]

  futile is that my 15 years come on cut [TS]

  me a break here but like I'm going to [TS]

  come back tomorrow [TS]

  first of all I have own shuffles my [TS]

  first I think my first two iPods were [TS]

  shuffles and I was not as big of a fan [TS]

  but I think that the big problem now and [TS]

  and one of the reasons why they could [TS]

  probably do this now and kill all the [TS]

  iPods now is I think it's easy for [TS]

  people like like us basically old [TS]

  computer nerds to overestimate how many [TS]

  people actually still maintain their own [TS]

  music collections you know these days [TS]

  streaming is so popular it is it is the [TS]

  default of what everyone does so many [TS]

  people either never built up a music [TS]

  collection or have abandoned it you know [TS]

  years ago for streaming services that I [TS]

  think the whole idea of a music player [TS]

  that you sink a collection of you know [TS]

  DRM free locally stored files that you [TS]

  sync those on [TS]

  - this music player and bring it with [TS]

  you somewhere I think that whole idea [TS]

  has had it today and is done and I don't [TS]

  think it's coming back that's not really [TS]

  do the form factor I said it would have [TS]

  to have cell access and have access to [TS]

  the cloud stuff that includes Apple [TS]

  music that includes Spotify well then [TS]

  that's that's that's a cellular Apple [TS]

  watch basically and and there they might [TS]

  be allegedly making right but it's not a [TS]

  watch it's not a watch and it's not [TS]

  gonna be $300 like a $50 thing then it's [TS]

  a phone you can connect all your cloud [TS]

  stuff to and your podcasts which aren't [TS]

  the same as you know you could stream [TS]

  your podcast that's fine but yourself to [TS]

  know what podcast you subscribe do [TS]

  anyway all the existing cloud stuff the [TS]

  existing cloud stuff is Apple music you [TS]

  know iTunes Match your iCloud music [TS]

  library your podcasts Spotify everything [TS]

  like that [TS]

  all those ecosystems even if it just did [TS]

  like okay like the watch does now like [TS]

  well the watch can't get there by itself [TS]

  but it can go on Wi-Fi and it can talk [TS]

  to your phone or whatever they the whole [TS]

  point is they don't want to sell [TS]

  something that's 50 bucks that you can [TS]

  listen to music and podcasts on [TS]

  regardless of how you do this they just [TS]

  they're you know you can't [TS]

  technologically do what I'm describing [TS]

  right now cuz it would cost more than 50 [TS]

  bucks and the $50 thing they have now [TS]

  sucks because it's so hard to get the [TS]

  music onto it and it's so hard to use [TS]

  right so I'm just hoping they come back [TS]

  to that when technology catches up I [TS]

  hope they don't say well you got to buy [TS]

  a watch in the watch out we starts at [TS]

  $1.99 like it never goes below that [TS]

  because you know Apple and prices that [TS]

  was keep going up market I hope I hope [TS]

  they extend back down because kinda like [TS]

  the iPod accidentally ended up 50 bucks [TS]

  or whatever the shuffles bar because the [TS]

  first shuffle was $1.99 or something [TS]

  like that yeah [TS]

  820 just so happen I think yeah like in [TS]

  a rare case of it becoming cheaper or [TS]

  cheaper to make this type of thing it [TS]

  just so happened that the price dropped [TS]

  down and people didn't care about it and [TS]

  you know it's one of those cases where [TS]

  app even Apple [TS]

  couldn't fight against the fact that [TS]

  this thing was incredibly cheap to make [TS]

  I wonder how much the shuffle that they [TS]

  were selling for whatever they were [TS]

  selling for actually cost them to [TS]

  manufacture the margins were probably [TS]

  big but they probably sold nine months [TS]

  who cares [TS]

  um but that's what's happening with all [TS]

  electronics that's why the watch is [TS]

  going to get Cellular's because [TS]

  eventually you can do that that fits in [TS]

  that form factor and in that price that [TS]

  will eventually happen for something [TS]

  like a shuffle and so I hope when that [TS]

  does happen that Apple revisits that [TS]

  especially as they expand out there it's [TS]

  like they're doing it but the phone [TS]

  diversifying the phone to make a big one [TS]

  they're small and now they're gonna make [TS]

  a big one a small and and a medium [TS]

  expensive one like this always room like [TS]

  they were said they're not gonna leave a [TS]

  price umbrella [TS]

  it's just that Apple loves to go upwards [TS]

  like how we make it even more expensive [TS]

  Foam let's make a bigger net 100 bucks [TS]

  let's make it all glass another hundred [TS]

  bucks like that's it's totally Apple way [TS]

  to do and that's great they should do [TS]

  that they should also make a really [TS]

  expensive Mac Pro that we'll all [TS]

  potentially buy but the other direction [TS]

  like don't just accidentally land there [TS]

  revisited and you know in many years [TS]

  when you can make the shuffle that I was [TS]

  describing because I think they can sell [TS]

  a lot of those things enough that to [TS]

  make it worth their while and people [TS]

  people do like them they don't like the [TS]

  old shuffle because now is out outdated [TS]

  but if they made a new one that did all [TS]

  that stuff a lot of people about it I [TS]

  say there's mostly because I see people [TS]

  with fit bits which fitbit's would do [TS]

  almost nothing and a junkie and people [TS]

  put through the washer all the time but [TS]

  I see a ton of them so I think there is [TS]

  you know there is a there is a market [TS]

  for so cheap you don't worry about it [TS]

  too much [TS]

  wearables that do something useful yeah [TS]

  there is in general but I think there's [TS]

  a lot more of that in the fitness [TS]

  community than there is in the audio [TS]

  playback market like it you know I think [TS]

  when you're looking at just having a [TS]

  small audio player the shuffle did make [TS]

  sense for a while too as a thing that is [TS]

  in life again I will stand by the fact [TS]

  that it was never good but but it was it [TS]

  made sense to exist in cell and it was [TS]

  fine for certain uses but now you are [TS]

  you're starting from a place where by [TS]

  default you assume everyone has a phone [TS]

  and then so you're what you're saying is [TS]

  basically like or like the the case that [TS]

  a shuffle would have to make is not I [TS]

  need some of the complete music on the [TS]

  go because your phone is that thing and [TS]

  you already have that so that's [TS]

  effectively free for you like there's no [TS]

  additional cost for you to have music on [TS]

  the go you already have that with your [TS]

  phone and so now it's well if you want [TS]

  to buy something else something smaller [TS]

  that you can clip onto your body maybe [TS]

  because of certain types of workouts [TS]

  that you do like running where you don't [TS]

  want to strap a phone to you or you know [TS]

  something like that [TS]

  well then their answer is the watch then [TS]

  their answer as well if you're doing [TS]

  these things we already have something [TS]

  small that completely you can clip to [TS]

  your body it's better than anything it's [TS]

  better than any shuffle ever made [TS]

  because it you don't have to clip it to [TS]

  some part of your clothing you just [TS]

  strap on your wrist in a location that [TS]

  people are totally fine wearing things [TS]

  most of the time and it doesn't you [TS]

  don't you there's no wires you can't [TS]

  plug a wire into even if you wanted to [TS]

  so you don't have a headphone wire they [TS]

  have to route somewhere along your arm [TS]

  or strap it down or through your shirt [TS]

  anything like that you can just use [TS]

  bluetooth you don't have to work with [TS]

  the air pods right exactly and so for [TS]

  the shuffle would do that too yes but if [TS]

  you're saying like Apple should sell a [TS]

  small inexpensive wearable device that [TS]

  you can sync music to in a modern way [TS]

  that can run modern apps and modern [TS]

  streaming services and can stream things [TS]

  to bluetooth that's smaller than a phone [TS]

  they do it's called the Apple watch and [TS]

  I don't think it's ever gonna get down [TS]

  to 50 bucks I already said that like [TS]

  they could if the way they can get to [TS]

  that market is they're making a fifty [TS]

  dollar Apple watch that's fine [TS]

  but if they never want the Apple watch [TS]

  to go down to 50 bucks what I'm saying [TS]

  is there's still place when to put [TS]

  something like that if they don't [TS]

  they'll put this way if they don't do it [TS]

  in a Fitbit is still in business Fitbit [TS]

  will make this because Fitbit already [TS]

  sells you something that is small [TS]

  lightweight cheap that does less than an [TS]

  Apple watch and eventually if they can [TS]

  sell something at that price and Apple [TS]

  doesn't then Fitbit will in the same way [TS]

  that Fitbit will sell a thing that [TS]

  counts your steps it's much cheaper than [TS]

  an Apple watch and Apple thus far can't [TS]

  make an Apple watch that's cheap because [TS]

  it's too complicated right so they could [TS]

  you know I'm just saying like don't [TS]

  don't leave this market out and I'm [TS]

  saying not to do it with the watch [TS]

  because thus far Apple has made the [TS]

  watch to be not upscale like the [TS]

  addition days are behind us but they're [TS]

  still making the ceramic ones and [TS]

  they're all about fashion and fanciness [TS]

  it seems to me that there is less of an [TS]

  appetite to bring the Apple watch down [TS]

  to 50 bucks even if they can technically [TS]

  so that leaves the room for if they [TS]

  don't want to do that and if they don't [TS]

  want Fitbit to sell that thing these [TS]

  room to bring back something like the [TS]

  shuffle in the future that is [TS]

  essentially it just an Apple watch [TS]

  without a strap and maybe without a [TS]

  screen on it even if you want to make it [TS]

  super cheap I think we can all agree [TS]

  though that no one is crying for the [TS]

  iPod Nano yeah and and that was so good [TS]

  for so long but that time [TS]

  long past yeah my first Apple products [TS]

  if memory serves were the original iPod [TS]

  shuffle that looked like a stick of gum [TS]

  or pack of gum I guess I should say and [TS]

  then following that an iPod Nano the one [TS]

  that was really easy to scratch the back [TS]

  of and I think there was like a [TS]

  class-action lawsuit or something [TS]

  scratch the front not the back the front [TS]

  what's the front okay yeah right way [TS]

  either way those were my first two Apple [TS]

  products so I think I have a similar [TS]

  reaction to every one or a lot of people [TS]

  which is well that that kind of sucks [TS]

  but no actually it doesn't because who's [TS]

  really buying these anymore anyway so [TS]

  yeah and they also do we already did we [TS]

  already mention that the capacity bumped [TS]

  the iPod Touch as well which is nobody [TS]

  cares I know you know is even worse than [TS]

  I have my phone I see users now it's [TS]

  been so lucky that's why I had to leave [TS]

  it like it was just fall you know [TS]

  getting a phone cuz I was gonna get [TS]

  phone but like they you know updated in [TS]

  forever and yeah they bumped the [TS]

  capacities but left the price is the [TS]

  same but it's still overpriced like the [TS]

  problem like it's not it's not super [TS]

  expensive but for what's in it like I [TS]

  find it hard to recommend that product I [TS]

  suppose if you want to get something for [TS]

  your kid and it's still cheaper than an [TS]

  iPad right but I find it really hard to [TS]

  recommend that product at the current [TS]

  price and capabilities if they want if [TS]

  they don't want to can the iPod Touch [TS]

  which apparently they don't want to do [TS]

  because it could have just canned it now [TS]

  they need to get it on they need to give [TS]

  a slightly better upgrade cycle I mean I [TS]

  guess they're not motivated to do that [TS]

  because you know it's it's uh it's like [TS]

  the Mac Mini of the iOS line it's like [TS]

  well it's the product exists in our [TS]

  lineup and people do buy it and it fills [TS]

  a role but we're not killing ourselves [TS]

  to make a new one so it's got what it's [TS]

  got the a8 in it now like when the a12 [TS]

  is out can we update the iPod touch [TS]

  again you know a capacity bump like come [TS]

  on I just if you're gonna have it may be [TS]

  updated every once in a while that's all [TS]

  I'm saying it's also interesting like [TS]

  how it fits now in the lineup you know [TS]

  first so you have the iPod touch at what [TS]

  200 bucks even is that the base yeah I [TS]

  think so then you have at 3:29 the new [TS]

  cheap iPad it seems like you're getting [TS]

  way more exactly you get way more with [TS]

  the iPad [TS]

  and then at 400 you have the iPhone se [TS]

  which if you still want a small device [TS]

  that is you're getting way more for the [TS]

  iPhone se than you are with an iPod [TS]

  Touch of 200 now granted that's I've now [TS]

  doubled the price but like I feel like [TS]

  any discussion of what the iPod Touch [TS]

  should or shouldn't have or should or [TS]

  shouldn't be updated or how it should be [TS]

  priced has to also then consider how it [TS]

  fits in with these other low-end [TS]

  inexpensive iOS devices yeah I mean it [TS]

  is kind of you know people sound like [TS]

  all the real iPods are on the iPod Touch [TS]

  was never really an iPod it was an iPod [TS]

  a name only but now it is it's actually [TS]

  filling the role of the iPod because why [TS]

  in the world would like so you're gonna [TS]

  get a kid you know it's get a kid so [TS]

  then I can have a phone you don't want [TS]

  to this kid doesn't have a cell number [TS]

  this kid is 6 years old right you want [TS]

  to get them an iOS device you're gonna [TS]

  get that kid that iPad right unless what [TS]

  the kid actually wants is a music player [TS]

  because the iPad is not a great music [TS]

  player to carry around with you at [TS]

  school or whatever like say the kid is [TS]

  you know 11 or 12 and maybe just want to [TS]

  have fun yet right parents will want to [TS]

  pay for a cell data plan so I thought [TS]

  any kind of iPhone is out because [TS]

  they're not paying for a cell data plan [TS]

  it's a waste to buy an iPhone and pay [TS]

  that extra Spencer or something it's not [TS]

  gonna be a phone but a kid would still [TS]

  rather have it an iPad to watch YouTube [TS]

  on and stuff too [TS]

  unless they want to carry it around the [TS]

  school and listen to music or whatever [TS]

  they would run with it or you know take [TS]

  it with them to camp or whatever it's a [TS]

  music player as the only the only [TS]

  advantages has is its small size [TS]

  everything else about is a disadvantage [TS]

  like because the price is too close to [TS]

  the to the cheap iPad it's really slow [TS]

  the storage capacity so it's kind of [TS]

  weird the iPod Touch just now is now [TS]

  actually living up to its iPod name [TS]

  because literal only reason for [TS]

  existence in any sensible thing is to [TS]

  fill the role of a non phone thing that [TS]

  you can also get access to all of your [TS]

  you know and I suppose text messages if [TS]

  you have Wi-Fi but it is more iPod like [TS]

  than has ever been before which is kind [TS]

  of depressing because it you know as I [TS]

  pointed out many times was once the [TS]

  fastest iPhone iOS device you could buy [TS]

  for a brief moment in time those days [TS]

  are long gone that was John's favorite [TS]

  brief moment in time that's what I feel [TS]

  like a part of the probably a big part [TS]

  of the market for the iPod Touch in [TS]

  addition to being eaten alive by the [TS]

  low-end iPad has probably also been [TS]

  eaten alive [TS]

  by the increasing numbers of people who [TS]

  just give old iPhones to kids like it's [TS]

  a good point [TS]

  I now know a bunch of parents of young [TS]

  children in like that that had age range [TS]

  where like they could have an iOS device [TS]

  but you don't want to give them a good [TS]

  one and I don't know any of them that [TS]

  have an iPod Touch they're all using [TS]

  their parents old iPhones it's you know [TS]

  like iPhone 4s and stuff like that like [TS]

  that of that age range or maybe an [TS]

  iPhone five like they're all using those [TS]

  and so like granted not everybody keeps [TS]

  their all devices a lot of people trade [TS]

  them in or sell them to help fund the [TS]

  new ones but I've had a lot of people [TS]

  who want it who have you know children [TS]

  of this age range they just give them [TS]

  what is that what they already have in a [TS]

  drawer somewhere which is a few years [TS]

  old iPhone okay maybe a little but I'm [TS]

  trying to think of why didn't we do that [TS]

  with our kids I mean from the beginning [TS]

  was because yeah I had the old iPod [TS]

  Touches in them but we actually did buy [TS]

  two brand-new iPod Touches it when we [TS]

  ran out of my old supply of iPod Touches [TS]

  right but the kids still wanted [TS]

  something that was better and faster you [TS]

  know that my old iPod Touches for two [TS]

  crappy for them which they really were [TS]

  at that point we had the choice we could [TS]

  have said well why don't we take you [TS]

  know the old iPhone for us and give it [TS]

  to one of the kids or we could just buy [TS]

  a brand new iPod Touch and we ended up [TS]

  buying a new iPod touch you know twice [TS]

  we did that for a variety of business [TS]

  you know because it was cheap because [TS]

  it's new because the battery will be [TS]

  fresh all the kind of reasons you know [TS]

  that you might so it's for us when we [TS]

  had access to both of them you know we [TS]

  could have gone either way on it so I [TS]

  don't think it's always a slam dunk but [TS]

  you know it depends on it depends on how [TS]

  often you upgrade your phones if y'all [TS]

  read your phone every year you have a [TS]

  much greater supply of reasonable ish [TS]

  iPhones to go through something also [TS]

  some people might want to resell their [TS]

  iPhones like if you do upgrade every [TS]

  year you can get some good money for [TS]

  reselling your iPhone and maybe that [TS]

  makes up the cost of the iPod Touch [TS]

  anyway I'm sure they're not selling too [TS]

  many of these but they don't gonna break [TS]

  that out for us but they did keep it [TS]

  around just like the Mac Mini so I'll [TS]

  keep our eye on it [TS]

  iPod Touch Deathwatch begins now oh my [TS]

  goodness and speaking of death watches [TS]

  flash is on the verge of dead like for [TS]

  real for real pleasure this is another [TS]

  one of those things where the correct [TS]

  response is they were [TS]

  making flash yeah I could tell they were [TS]

  still making flash because I still come [TS]

  across websites that require flash or [TS]

  don't work right or complain that my [TS]

  version of Flash is updated I'm like [TS]

  still really what is what is this [TS]

  website why do you want me to have flash [TS]

  I just want to see some video what [TS]

  century are we in but the reason this is [TS]

  a story is because Adobe the makers of [TS]

  flash are saying we're not going to do [TS]

  that anymore okay so finally like you [TS]

  have no choice people who continue to [TS]

  make websites with flash soon you will [TS]

  not be able to get flash our Flash [TS]

  plugin that works in modern browsers [TS]

  because Adobe is not going to spend more [TS]

  time developing it and blah blah blah so [TS]

  truly only Adobe could really ever kill [TS]

  flash because if they continued to make [TS]

  it and sell it as again a product in [TS]

  their lineup some people buy it and use [TS]

  it and force you to have it for their [TS]

  web sites and those are bad people and [TS]

  so I'm glad Dobies putting it into this [TS]

  how do you really feel thanks to our [TS]

  three sponsors this week Casper [TS]

  Squarespace and audible and we will see [TS]

  you next week now the show is over [TS]

  they didn't even mean to begin as it was [TS]

  accidental accidental [TS]

  research Marco and Casey wouldn't let [TS]

  because it was accidentally was [TS]

  accidental and you can find the show [TS]

  notes at a s ey l is s so that's K [TS]

  sealless and a are Co AR m and T Marco [TS]

  Arment si are a Syracuse [TS]

  so John how was your big vacation I [TS]

  really want to hear more about this is [TS]

  the same as it always is I always go [TS]

  down to Long Island for it's usually [TS]

  just a week this time it was almost two [TS]

  weeks because reasons and we took the [TS]

  dog with us this time we've gone on [TS]

  there with dog before but that was our [TS]

  other dog and he was much better behaved [TS]

  than this little monster well she's [TS]

  still a puppy though yeah she was much [TS]

  older dog but we survived we had pretty [TS]

  okay weather took a lot of pictures [TS]

  filled up a lot of memory cards filled [TS]

  up my wife's iMac we came back home she [TS]

  got that warning that Ohio s will give [TS]

  you that says your disc is running low [TS]

  in space which is never good worrying to [TS]

  get because Mac OS like so many UNIX is [TS]

  before it does not behave well when it [TS]

  runs out of disk space things get very [TS]

  bad very quickly so I had to come home [TS]

  and well I try to delete a bunch of [TS]

  pictures but then you got to go into [TS]

  recently deleted and delete them and you [TS]

  know I do I did as much picture deleting [TS]

  Isaac oh but the bottom line is pictures [TS]

  don't pictures only accumulate [TS]

  essentially you know you just keep [TS]

  taking more of them and you don't delete [TS]

  the old ones and there have been more [TS]

  worthless into leaving them than they [TS]

  have in the past not just out of focus [TS]

  or bad ones but just like you know just [TS]

  deleting everything except for the ones [TS]

  I think are decent but then I have to go [TS]

  through her computer and delete a bunch [TS]

  of other stuff too so polla just can [TS]

  menteur EXI look for alternatives I know [TS]

  there's a bunch of alternatives that [TS]

  people like people like dayz disk grande [TS]

  perspective is a discriminatory acts [TS]

  look-alike type program space gremlin is [TS]

  my favorite oh I don't know about that [TS]

  one I got checked going up it's fairly [TS]

  hideous but it's pretty functional I [TS]

  like the the tree map view of the big [TS]

  rectangle I liked disconfort inventory [TS]

  axis I'm concerned that it's not being [TS]

  maintained and it sometimes does some [TS]

  weird stuff that bothers me a little bit [TS]

  so that's why I just download a grand [TS]

  perspective but anyway if you've never [TS]

  used one of these programs or omni just [TS]

  sweeper or Daisy disk whatever whichever [TS]

  one you want when you're trying to free [TS]

  up disk space this is the way to do it [TS]

  get a program that will show you somehow [TS]

  all the stuff that's on your disk and [TS]

  find the big things and don't spend a [TS]

  year going through a million tiny files [TS]

  to fair what to delete delete like three [TS]

  big ones right and that [TS]

  so deleted a bunch of games from Steam I [TS]

  moved my iTunes backups to a different [TS]

  volume yes speaking of things you can [TS]

  safely delete with this new modern age [TS]

  I tuned zdevice backups are huge most [TS]

  people have no idea that they're even [TS]

  still keeping those if they don't use [TS]

  them anymore and they take up tons of [TS]

  disk space so that's a number one hit is [TS]

  like you've got to get rid of those [TS]

  iTunes backups also if you're a [TS]

  developer Xcode keeps around all sorts [TS]

  of support files for old simulators and [TS]

  old devices that you probably don't use [TS]

  anymore [TS]

  the Xcode developer directory is always [TS]

  a great source of clearing out stuff [TS]

  yeah I still keep the iTunes device [TS]

  backups just because it's is still even [TS]

  with the crappiness of iTunes slightly [TS]

  the fastest and most convenient way to [TS]

  restore like a kids a device that got [TS]

  totally hosed so I keep them around I [TS]

  didn't want to leave them all I didn't [TS]

  need to obviously all the old ones that [TS]

  for device that I'm using abroad just [TS]

  move them to a different volume that [TS]

  isn't backed up they don't like if I [TS]

  lose them oh well these are all the [TS]

  devices are all backed up the iCloud [TS]

  right so I just have local iTunes [TS]

  backups you know it's just convenient [TS]

  encrypted backups I have all the [TS]

  passwords though I think they added that [TS]

  to the iCloud backups - now didn't they [TS]

  anyway more backups is good so I didn't [TS]

  want to delete them I just moved them [TS]

  what else did I delete well the trick [TS]

  now is so if you want the password [TS]

  doesn't have to be saved they're still [TS]

  excluded from from iCloud backups but [TS]

  iCloud keychain now exists so the [TS]

  official the official word of like how [TS]

  you're supposed to do this is to use [TS]

  iCloud keychain also in addition to [TS]

  iCloud backups and then you will have [TS]

  those things work so that saves a lot of [TS]

  spend up freeing up like 130 gigs or [TS]

  something which gave me a little bit [TS]

  more breathing room but it's that you [TS]

  look at the disk inventory acts like [TS]

  giant rectangle picture and it's just a [TS]

  huge rectangle that is my photo library [TS]

  and there's a little skinny row with a [TS]

  bunch of tiny little things that is [TS]

  everything else on the system and what [TS]

  can you do like I got the biggest you [TS]

  know it's a one terabyte drive and her [TS]

  iMac and that's the time we moved you [TS]

  know we moved the photos from an [TS]

  external drive to an internal one it's [TS]

  so much more convenient and fast [TS]

  obviously to have everything in one [TS]

  volume before I have this even more [TS]

  complicated backup scheme where I had [TS]

  you know her internal drive on her old [TS]

  computer but then also my external [TS]

  photos [TS]

  and then you had to do like it just [TS]

  doubles the amount of backup headaches [TS]

  that you have to do and I like having it [TS]

  all one but at this point you know when [TS]

  we replaced this iMac I'm gonna get her [TS]

  one with a two terabyte disk or gonna [TS]

  move the iPhoto library to my Mac Pro [TS]

  with the 4 terabyte internal SSD where [TS]

  the hell are going to get in my fantasy [TS]

  world that's actually that's that's a [TS]

  non not crazy way to do it like one of [TS]

  the little hacks I've recently decided [TS]

  to try was I have you know my iMac and [TS]

  then a laptop and they have one terabyte [TS]

  each cuz that was like the most fecund [TS]

  iMac at the time and so I got that but I [TS]

  I'm pushing that so like on the iMac a [TS]

  couple of years ago now I bought a [TS]

  little external Samsung SSD too and I [TS]

  moved over it's very very easy to have [TS]

  iTunes and Apple photos store their [TS]

  giant libraries anywhere else like on an [TS]

  external driver and it's very easy to do [TS]

  that you'd like you don't have to do any [TS]

  kind of weird symlink trick or anything [TS]

  you can just tell it I'm now moving this [TS]

  here and and it just works and both for [TS]

  both photos and iTunes and so and [TS]

  because there's such big things for most [TS]

  people does you know that's like number [TS]

  one hit rate to move but one thing I [TS]

  started doing now with photos is I [TS]

  signed it so I have this Mac Mini server [TS]

  at home it's like a little home utility [TS]

  server among other things that usually [TS]

  runs the live stream for this show it [TS]

  also hosts a giant ice cozy volume on [TS]

  mine ass and this is I would not [TS]

  honestly recommend doing ice Guzzi it's [TS]

  too much of a pain if I were starting [TS]

  fresh today I wouldn't do it but what I [TS]

  would do is just plug in a couple of [TS]

  giant external hard drives to that Mac [TS]

  Mini which would serve the same function [TS]

  so anyway so I have this Mac Mini that [TS]

  thinks it has a whole bunch of locally [TS]

  attached storage so one thing I've [TS]

  started doing now is I signed in to [TS]

  photos app on that Mac Mini and I'm [TS]

  having it keep a local copy of a hundred [TS]

  percent quality of everything so now I [TS]

  can safely if I want to I'm not sure if [TS]

  I will but if I want to now I can I can [TS]

  have future computers not keep my entire [TS]

  photo library on them and therefore [TS]

  maybe I don't need to buy the giant [TS]

  expensive 2 terabyte or future 4 [TS]

  terabyte options you know [TS]

  now maybe I could get quote only the one [TS]

  or two terabyte SSDs built-in so that [TS]

  now because I have this other of Mac [TS]

  press other Mac Mini in my house that is [TS]

  keeping a full resolution copy of [TS]

  everything locally and you know the [TS]

  third option is you could just trust [TS]

  cloud backup I don't like that option so [TS]

  I still have this thing locally I still [TS]

  have everything locally like it in my [TS]

  house but it's hard to you know because [TS]

  once as you said John like once you add [TS]

  photos to your life [TS]

  you're basically gonna keep paying for [TS]

  that storage forever like you know every [TS]

  computer you buy you're gonna have to [TS]

  get the bigger and bigger disk each time [TS]

  and you're gonna have to keep paying [TS]

  that giant has--is D tax over and over [TS]

  and over again every time you buy a [TS]

  computer so one way to solve it is see [TS]

  if there's some kind of clever way you [TS]

  can use other or different or cheaper [TS]

  hard drive space in your house and so [TS]

  for me having the Mac Mini signed into [TS]

  Photos app and having having that down [TS]

  all the originals then frees up the [TS]

  other computers to have it do the [TS]

  optimized storage thing and so yeah that [TS]

  that's one option this could be crazy I [TS]

  don't know but it seemed reasonable when [TS]

  I set it up no I mean I did the same [TS]

  thing I have another Mac that signed [TS]

  Emily one terabyte disk you know thing [TS]

  is I just don't like in the same way [TS]

  that raid is not a backup solution I [TS]

  don't consider that a backup like it's [TS]

  good to have it but I would never turn [TS]

  on up to my storage on my iMac because I [TS]

  need one canonical location that I want [TS]

  that backed up the old-fashioned way you [TS]

  know three times the time machine to two [TS]

  separate disks cloud backup and also [TS]

  super-duper clone like the photos are [TS]

  the most important thing that I backups [TS]

  so I bought them in more places not [TS]

  fewer so I never I'm never gonna uncheck [TS]

  I'm never gonna check that off to my [TS]

  storage box even though like I did this [TS]

  that's what I did in vacation I took a [TS]

  laptop with me on vacation with the one [TS]

  terabyte drive right and so I'm taking [TS]

  the pictures signed into the same [TS]

  account my wife's account like I made on [TS]

  this laptop and I'm doing all the [TS]

  pictures there and doing all the edits [TS]

  and everything and deleting and [TS]

  favoriting and doing all this stuff and [TS]

  then I come back home and the whole time [TS]

  I'm leaving my laptop open all night [TS]

  long I like to upload you know the [TS]

  iCloud photo stuff right and then I come [TS]

  home and look at her iMac and there all [TS]

  the pictures all the edits that I did on [TS]

  vacation are basically there except for [TS]

  a few stragglers and then I leave both [TS]

  computers like on and connected to Wi-Fi [TS]

  for a couple you know for like eight [TS]

  hours to make sure okay guys we're all [TS]

  in Sigma P said this [TS]

  point my photos are only on the laptop [TS]

  like I've had to overwrite I brought two [TS]

  SD cards with me but I had to overwrite [TS]

  one of them right so I don't even have [TS]

  the SD cards as the backup photos are [TS]

  only on the laptop and the laptop is [TS]

  pushing out to the cloud and then I want [TS]

  them to be pulled down from the cloud [TS]

  onto what's supposed to be by a [TS]

  canonical computer which is the iMac [TS]

  normally after I'm a hundred percent [TS]

  sure that no one is doing me syncing and [TS]

  everyone is all in the same page and [TS]

  everyone's got all the original quality [TS]

  images on two computers and they're [TS]

  backed up a hundred times only then can [TS]

  I turn on up to my storage on the the [TS]

  laptop or more likely I'm just going to [TS]

  you know delete that account on the [TS]

  laptop whatever because there's a [TS]

  temporary thing but I'm really like the [TS]

  thing with Mac Mini I would love to have [TS]

  a solution like that if I had the disk [TS]

  space and another Mac to throw at it [TS]

  but in general I don't I want my backup [TS]

  my backups to use different software [TS]

  than the regular functioning of stuff I [TS]

  think for a while I also had it on my [TS]

  Mac on my Mac Pro the same thing without [TS]

  in my storage on but not to my storage [TS]

  is to to blunt of an instrument like I [TS]

  wanted to I want some control over the [TS]

  optimized storage I don't want to be [TS]

  like will almost feel you're just giving [TS]

  back off I would love to say optimized [TS]

  storage and never get bigger than X size [TS]

  right or so I don't know something to [TS]

  let me have more control or like keep [TS]

  the originals for the last X months or [TS]

  years yeah for that you can start our [TS]

  coven you know stuff like that but also [TS]

  to clarify by the way that Mac Mini that [TS]

  hosts this full size library that [TS]

  everything it has is also back up to [TS]

  Backblaze yeah so there were always [TS]

  people in chat asking so I figured let [TS]

  me save myself a week of email just say [TS]

  that's also backed up too late [TS]

  yeah that's why it's I scuzzy speakers [TS]

  at that place doesn't do network discs [TS]

  so you need you know direct attached [TS]

  storage that's exactly it [TS]

  yeah and I have a feeling I don't think [TS]

  photos dot app would appreciate being on [TS]

  a network disk either anyway yeah if I [TS]

  were starting over honestly if I were [TS]

  starting over today with like large [TS]

  stories like this I would not get an ass [TS]

  I would just get I would just have like [TS]

  have another Mac somewhere or another [TS]

  computer somewhere in your house that's [TS]

  you know small speck inexpensive and [TS]

  just plug in a few large external hard [TS]

  drives and call it a day [TS]

  because and and then because then you [TS]

  can have things like Backblaze backing [TS]

  it up and [TS]

  I have found that I don't you know [TS]

  unlike Casey like Casey you you use [TS]

  crazy cool features of the Nast like [TS]

  with its built-in apps I use none of [TS]

  them in practice like i the the Nass to [TS]

  me is just a giant external hard drive [TS]

  box you don't even use Plex on it no I I [TS]

  use Plex on that Mac Mini actually yeah [TS]

  that's the same setup I have on my iMac [TS]

  so I don't use Plex on the device but I [TS]

  mean I don't really do that much with [TS]

  the Synology although I didn't want to [TS]

  interrupt John earlier but I was [TS]

  surprised that you don't have the [TS]

  Synology hosting a VPN for you so you [TS]

  can like easily get to any device on [TS]

  your network and force all of those [TS]

  things to be uploaded you know yes [TS]

  analogy is not accessible to the [TS]

  Internet because it just it's a peace of [TS]

  mind thing like Synology and [TS]

  network-attached start like you can't [TS]

  reach I can't reach it no one can reach [TS]

  it from the internet I feel better that [TS]

  way I don't have any access to my home [TS]

  network from outside like I have [TS]

  anything like you know any kind of like [TS]

  dynamic DNS thing or any kind of like [TS]

  forwarded screen sharing or VNC I have [TS]

  no access to my home network anything I [TS]

  want to do that I don't want to access [TS]

  when I'm out on the go I have to either [TS]

  access it through sync services like [TS]

  Dropbox or if I really need something I [TS]

  can pull a file off a back plays but [TS]

  that's it all right is that good enough [TS]

  after sure what was I gonna say one more [TS]

  thing about my setup that I was gonna [TS]

  say so John I guess your vacation how'd [TS]

  your vacation go here's all the stories [TS]

  of a disk space my folks [TS]

  I mean you know my vacation is like it's [TS]

  for the kids and everyone to go to the [TS]

  beach and hang out and you know me [TS]

  taking care of the dog this time is a [TS]

  little bit of added hassle and stress [TS]

  and lots of waking up early but I take a [TS]

  lot of pictures like it you know I just [TS]

  well I brought both cameras cuz you [TS]

  gotta have a backups but I just used my [TS]

  new Sony camera didn't even use my super [TS]

  zoom at all super zoom was just there in [TS]

  case I dropped the Sony in the ocean I [TS]

  successfully did not drop it in the [TS]

  ocean once again I brought a new zoom [TS]

  lens for it which is longer zoom but a [TS]

  crappier lens but it was cheap then I [TS]

  used last time and it was alright I used [TS]

  most of the lenses I brought with me [TS]

  it's a lot took lots of pictures got [TS]

  some good ones but that's a lot of my [TS]

  beautification series I take a lot of [TS]

  pictures and then I edit them and mess [TS]

  with them and post a couple Instagram [TS]

  in general I don't post pictures of like [TS]

  pictures of my relatives who don't want [TS]

  to be featured on my Instagram and [TS]

  really don't post most pictures of my [TS]

  family alone now that my kids are older [TS]

  I post a few pictures of them here and [TS]

  there but yeah this is my the heaviest [TS]

  photography time of the year most if you [TS]

  look at when the most pictures taken by [TS]

  far it's these one or two weeks that I'm [TS]

  long I will come home from the ocean one [TS]

  day and I'll have 1600 pictures [TS]

  obviously I'm not keeping all posts I'm [TS]

  deleting a lot of them but that's what [TS]

  it looks like secret to good photography [TS]

  as far as I've been able to determine so [TS]

  far take a huge number of pictures and [TS]

  then delete most of them yeah the secret [TS]

  to give a target for you is lots of bad [TS]

  photography yeah so I'm definitely doing [TS]

  that what else that lens wise yeah I [TS]

  still don't have a really good zoom that [TS]

  I like because good zooms are really [TS]

  expensive and really heavy and it's like [TS]

  I'm just resigned to the fact that I [TS]

  will you know the smaller and you know [TS]

  my my 50 millimeter prime is still my [TS]

  favorite lens but that's not gonna cut [TS]

  it at the ocean and so as you as I get [TS]

  more flexible the image quality goes [TS]

  down and the size and weight go up and [TS]

  I've mostly accepted that but I'm still [TS]

  it's a pretty happy with my camera got a [TS]

  lot of good shots out of it and like I [TS]

  said didn't drop it in the ocean so [TS]

  that's key yeah I mean they're basically [TS]

  there is no good zoom like there every [TS]

  zoom is is a giant compromise and at [TS]

  least one factor either you're [TS]

  compromising image quality severely in [TS]

  order to get something reasonably sized [TS]

  and reasonably inexpensive or you are [TS]

  having really great image quality but [TS]

  then the thing is massive and probably a [TS]

  pretty small zoom range and probably [TS]

  very expensive like it's you can't there [TS]

  it's just impossible to make a great [TS]

  zoom lens that has a large range and is [TS]

  reasonably priced and it's reasonably [TS]

  small you just can't do it well in one [TS]

  brief dog story so I've been training uh [TS]

  to come one called like on you know in [TS]

  in adverse conditions when you really [TS]

  want it to happen like for example when [TS]

  all the other dogs in the Dog Fart run [TS]

  to the mud puddle and get covered head [TS]

  to toe in you know muddy water right and [TS]

  literally changes the colour of the dog [TS]

  and you don't want your or do that [TS]

  that's the time when you want to and [TS]

  every dog wants to go to the nub bottle [TS]

  they all start hitting there and all the [TS]

  orders like no that's when you need the [TS]

  come one called thing to actually work [TS]

  I call my dad today I used that was it [TS]

  today today yesterday exactly that [TS]

  happened you know I told her to come she [TS]

  came I was exciting right [TS]

  but I found limits to that on vacation [TS]

  because she was out in the backyard and [TS]

  we let her loose for a little bit and [TS]

  she's wandering around usually where she [TS]

  does the Sun rabbit turds and eat them [TS]

  because they're delicious [TS]

  well this time okay but this time she [TS]

  found a dead bird and I didn't know what [TS]

  she had found I started getting into [TS]

  something and I called her to come over [TS]

  and she comes running towards me she [TS]

  gets about three inches from my hand or [TS]

  I'm about to like grab her collar and I [TS]

  see the wing of the dead birds think I'm [TS]

  a small bird this is a pretty [TS]

  significant bird that's in her mouth [TS]

  that's like you know and she gets close [TS]

  to me and she sees that I'm gonna reach [TS]

  for the collar and she's like I'm out [TS]

  turns the other direction runs away as [TS]

  fast as she can I run after his front [TS]

  yard like I run after her I eventually [TS]

  catch up with her she as far as I can [TS]

  tell swallowed that bird whole like just [TS]

  you know dig the thing out of her mouth [TS]

  like so many things that I dig out of my [TS]

  dog's mouth that I don't want her to [TS]

  have she just you know like full like [TS]

  Python lizard just slurp down like whole [TS]

  dead bird beak feathers everything [TS]

  that's dogs for you so she will come [TS]

  when called when all the other dogs are [TS]

  running to the mud puddle but she gets [TS]

  dead bird just like I have made the [TS]

  mental calculation and whatever treat [TS]

  you're going to give me for coming when [TS]

  called does not match this dead bird so [TS]

  dead bird wins [TS]