The Accidental Tech Podcast

233: Nobody Cares But Me, But I Do Care


  so you use the it's a 15 inch know you

  have but you know you have the the

  escape with the 5k and the escapes

  clamshell close its back to a 15

  remember I know I make it hard to keep


  I can't keep track holy shit on a 15

  touch bar I'm a 15 touch bar which I

  never actually used the touch bar and

  that was because all the ports it was

  partially because of the ports it was

  partially because I tried the first few

  weekends I was spending here I used the

  the map book escape with the 5k and it

  was struggling to drive all those pixels

  like basic operations like window

  dragging was slow and and then and I I

  did want more performance if it was

  gonna be like my main computer for a

  month of heavy iOS development you know

  then I rationalize it away by saying

  well then when I go home I can bring the

  LG 5k and I can sell my iMac while it is

  still under any kind of warranty it has

  like it's I think it's under warranty to

  October and then you know use my

  clamshell with this but instead of I

  have now as my main set up until the Mac

  Pro comes out next year so I have

  appropriated a second 4k monitor which

  is a story that's not worth telling at

  the moment so I have two of these LJ 4k

  monitor LG for the Duchesse ALJ LG 4k

  monitors that are now being run off of

  my pre touch bar MacBook Pro and to be

  honest it actually seems just fine with

  these now granted there for K not 5k

  it's a big difference but it seems just

  fine with two 4k s however I have

  forgotten how persnickety and and fickle

  Mac OS is when it comes to clamshell

  mode there are lots of times that all

  like I put it to sleep and I open it up

  and it spurious and sometimes doesn't

  wake up I don't put it to sleep and I

  just rip all the cables out and I walk

  away and it goes to sleep and then may

  or may not wake up I'll open the lid and

  I'll rip all the cables out then

  everything just dances all over the

  place and then it may or may not

  actually be the way I want it to be its

  clamshell is not really what we should

  be doing with these things which is

  unfortunate because I do like it when I

  have either you know a 5k is you have or

  like a couple of for K's like I have and

  say what like as

  I've been using clamshell here at

  vacation times and I completely agree

  like it's been a while since I've used

  just a laptop with Mac OS at like laptop

  with a desktop screen connected to it

  like it's been a like I used to do it

  all the time I used my my main setup but

  that was probably a good six seven years

  ago at least and I had forgotten like

  quite how just inconsistent a lot of the

  stuff is like it just it doesn't work

  right and that le now with the touch bar

  it's even worse like every time I log in

  the text box won't show on the main

  screen I think you start typing because

  it's the laptop is waiting for touch ID

  but it's closed and so on the big LG

  screen it just shows me a login window

  and it will not show the text area

  unless you start typing it's like weird

  little stuff like that it's just it's

  just not it's not good I really honestly

  I'm rethinking my plan now of like

  getting rid of my iMac early I'm like oh

  god this is this is awkward

  not to mention like this lg screen is

  such a piece of crap really

  I rented a vanity for like it's not I

  mean so one thing is I had to get an

  Ergo Tron arm because the stand is so


  it just kept wobbling like every time I

  would like type on my keyboard I don't

  think I'm I'm that aggressive of a

  typist but every time I would type on

  the keyboard my monitor would wobble

  back and forth but yeah yeah LG is it's

  it's a piece of crap it's just it's not

  a good it's it's a PC monitor it has

  crap speaker that has crap frame around

  it it's you know it had that stupid

  interference problem with the early ones

  like it's just not a well engineered

  piece of anything and I I don't expect

  to be buying more non-apple monitors

  there if I can help it alright so this

  is a weird setup for tonight it is

  currently the evening of Friday the 4th

  of August and we are going to do a

  marathon recording session and we need

  to get this week's which probably won't

  be released until tomorrow on the fifth

  Saturday the 5th of August this week's

  recording which will probably be a

  mostly normal ATP recording and next

  weeks which will be released on or

  around Wednesday the 9th we are going to

  do a

  bit of Q&A probably for most of what

  ends up being the second episode but we

  are recording these both back-to-back

  and we may or may not have a cleaned

  separation between the first episode in

  the second depending on how aggressive

  Marko gets when he does the slicing and

  dicing so I have so many ideas I can

  only imagine this is like I'm thinking

  like so my two favorite ideas are either

  we do like next week on a TP like one of

  those like previous or we do like the

  classic cop-out of like I don't know how

  to end this song in the 80s so I'm just

  gonna fade it out I'll just be repeating

  the same sentence over and over again

  and just slowly fade way to spoil your

  two best ideas I hope you don't put this

  in the episode so anyway so this one it

  might feel this one in the next one I

  should say might feel slightly weird and

  I apologize if that's the case like we

  had mentioned I think on the last

  episode between the three of us we have

  planned our vacations to not overlap at

  all which is kind of unfortunate for

  times when you want to make sure all

  three of you are here to record so we're

  doing the best we can we apologize and

  thanks for bearing with us

  that being said John how was your beach

  vacation it's fine beat that I would

  have guessed let's talk about TSM C's

  ten millimeters excuse me ten nanometers

  versus Intel Intel's 10 nanometers and

  we had somebody in the know right in and

  that person said you know I work for one

  of the companies involved and they might

  be biased but I like the show this is

  this person talking and I just wanted to

  point out that like so many other things

  in technology naming of processed notes

  has become more marketing than reality

  so there's an article that talks about

  this and one of the recent tricks

  continues this anonymous email or one of

  the recent tricks is to quote a distance

  between features that are not

  electrically active so this allows you

  to quote a small number but of course

  doesn't do much for increasing

  transistor debt then

  and another person in a Julian Heather

  Bell wrote in to say that TSM sees ten

  nanometers is only a bit denser than

  Intel's 14 so Intel claims a three-year

  advantage on ten nanometers and wants to

  redefine everything we have another post

  about that and yet another post which

  will put them show notes about how Intel

  may still be set to lose process

  leadership after next year we're gonna

  race you in a hurry you got somewhere to

  be we have two episodes to fill here

  stretch it out you know do you know the

  TV stretch out motion looks like you're

  pulling taffy doing the opposite you're

  doing the the fingers rotate bring it

  together yeah yeah get it together

  do you really need to try hard to

  stretch out follow up apparently we do

  because Casey's going for a speed run

  again let me know there will be three

  links in those show nuts if you want to

  read more about this but the upshot is

  that a lot a lot of people rose to say

  hey until 10 nanometre isn't gonna be

  way smaller than TSMC Nana made 10

  nanometre and there's a lot of reasons

  for that and feature size is not very

  strictly defined as this couple is

  emails pointed out you know you can

  quote-unquote cheat by quoting distances

  that are in meaningful recording

  distances that make your particular

  arrangement look good because again

  these are when they're laying out the

  things on the chips it's a 3d

  arrangement of things there's a layering

  vertical horizontal you know it's it's

  three-dimensional it's not just like

  even though it's done with you know with

  ography it's not just two-dimensional

  like a drawing it's actually a 3d shape

  and it influences what the distances are

  between things anyway it's complicated

  but consensus was from all the different

  feedback and all that in articles that

  TSMC ten millimeter is not as small as

  until ten nanometer tint also has a lead

  and that final link is like well maybe

  they have lead now but they're gonna

  lose it and in 2019 and later and I

  guess we'll see that was still fairly

  quick thank you very much but you're

  right we should stretch it out so Steven

  Dean wrote in to say I can't even

  continue with it I thought you were

  struggling to pronounce his name even

  Dean that one's really difficult so

  Steven wrote in to say you're missing a

  lot of your movies sound

  without a subwoofer your atoms only go

  down to about 86 Hertz which is normal

  cutoff for a non full range can you

  translate that into English for me yeah

  so basically you know speakers because

  they are these giant moving things and

  everything there's a certain frequency

  range that they're able to reproduce and

  and what he's saying is that the low end

  of the frequency range of the woofers

  that are in my paradigm atom speakers

  are they can't reproduce very very very

  low frequencies and subwoofers have a

  lower floor they can reproduce

  frequencies much lower and and that is

  certainly one reason to have a sub

  woofer I think a better reason to have a

  sub woofer is to get like more bass

  energy you know more you can get more of

  that thump more of that slam I'm like

  and you know base hits and sounds and

  stuff and you can just also just get

  more volume and more spread that's

  probably a better reason to have it

  honestly but my my reasons for not

  liking subwoofers and not really wanting

  one remain I designed my TV speaker

  setup to be really good for music in a

  way that still is okay for TV and I

  think for music I still largely prefer

  two speakers not surround and for that

  to be not with some like big booming

  thumpy subwoofer you know on in the

  corner of the room now I know it there

  are ways to do it better

  however the arrangement of my living

  room is such that I don't really have a

  good place to put a subwoofer or maybe

  even a pair of subwoofers that would

  make any sense and that would sound good

  so you know it lots of people have

  written in saying you know you can put

  the subwoofer in good places there are

  good so but you know there are more of

  that more you know more ways to do it

  and then when I said last time and that

  is true you know in an ideal world but

  my living room is on an ideal world and

  so I have limitations of of you know

  what I can put where how much space I

  have in the current arrangement how

  things need to look because we don't

  want everything to just be this one like

  giant box so you know my setup is fine

  for me and if you want subwoofers and

  you were set up or if you want surround

  sound and your setup cool I don't really

  mind either

  I don't know how the setup is good for

  music if you're giving up 2286 hurts

  that entire frequency range that's it

  that president music - it's not just

  movies explosions that have it you know

  I mean all the things about volume

  obviously yeah maybe you want to

  exaggerate in a movie but just plain old

  music music has bass - I know you don't

  like bass you're doing your own reviews

  but that's not true i I don't like when

  basses all you hear and and so while

  again I agree that it would be nice to

  have you know solid response across the

  whole frequency range in practice that's

  hard it's easy it's way easier doing

  headphones than it is and speakers

  headphones you only have one driver and

  you can you know you can do a lot of

  even easier things with it but you know

  the speakers you have to have like large

  things that depend on the arrangement of

  your room and and large boxes and large

  transducers of some kind that vibrate up

  and down and just get a home pot it will

  figure out how your room is arranged and

  make sure everything sounds okay

  I actually really curious to hear how

  the home pod deals with bass because

  basically it's one of those things it's

  kind of like the it's kind of like how

  it's hard for very very small camera

  sensors to do things that require big

  glass bass reproduction is one of those

  things where like at some point you kind

  of just need largeness like you need

  like a large surface to vibrate slowly

  to get some of that you know and and so

  it's very very hard for any kind of very

  small speaker to have good bass response

  that's why once the trend moved in

  computer speakers and then later on home

  theater speakers once the trend moved to

  very very small speakers they also had

  to add subwoofers because the little

  tiny speakers would reproduce the higher

  frequency it's just fine but then they

  needed to add a sub woofer to get the

  low frequencies and there was no way to

  make like a small speaker that could

  also do the low frequencies so the

  Amazon echo definitely has this problem

  where the bass on it it's non-existent

  although the sound quality isn't very

  good anyway on it so maybe they just

  don't care but the home pod I would

  imagine they're gonna care a lot about

  sound quality so I am really curious to

  see how they solve that problem if they

  solve that problem or if they just you

  know crank up the bass in in DSP in

  wheaton within the speaker like

  artificially inflate the little bit of

  bass they have and just hope that's

  enough and call today what was the

  biggest driver in the home pot it was

  like four inches or six inches or

  something I don't know I have I sleuth

  it up six inches is pretty big the whole

  thing is not that big so we know it

  can't be it's not bigger than than the

  pot itself that's a pretty small little

  thing but yeah I can't yeah can't be

  that big of a speaker in there it's kind

  of a shame that you know it was a

  question I had about them and I still

  have that although I think it's mostly

  been answered if you buy two of them

  like they recommend it's not as if they

  act like stereo speakers it seems like

  they both just figure out how to best

  fill the room with sound but each one of

  them it's not like one is the left

  speaker more it's the right and

  similarly one is wooden doesn't just

  become the sub you know I mean like

  imagine if one could just do the low

  frequencies and it looks like a little

  subwoofer anyway looks like a jellyfish

  but apparently they don't work that way

  when when we were living in Connecticut

  so this is when I was in like high

  school and dad had decided that he

  wanted to take his home theater really

  seriously and so not only did we have

  some subwoofers somewhere in the corner

  of the room but he actually installed I

  believe the term was based shakers or at

  least maybe maybe that's a brand like a

  xerox thing and what is that a

  proprietary eponym or whatever it is but

  anyways basically under the floor of the

  room the the TV room there were a

  handful of basically vibrator motors

  like you would find in your phone just

  much bigger and they were wired into

  like the amplifier and acted as like

  ancillary subwoofers so you would

  literally feel explosions when you were

  watching movies is pretty cool at the

  time magic fingers right I'm sure that's

  a reference and I don't get it but I'm

  just gonna roll with it these terms all

  sound really gross and the modern

  parlance it's a book the local furniture

  store that has an IMAX theater this is a

  normal thing if you are from where I'm

  from oh my god has a thing called butt

  kickers oh yeah it's not similar yeah

  they call them butt kickers thing in

  everybody seat that shakes you it's it's

  novel it is novel that's well put also

  Marco I want to commend you for being

  okay with not perfection

  because I completely agree with you like

  it is unequivocally not perfection to

  not have a subwoofer

  to be okay with that it's kind of

  freeing well it's the best it could

  possibly be okay again it's the living

  room set up right leg first of all that

  is mostly not you it was mostly used for

  TV I still wanted to sound very good for

  music but it honestly is mostly used for

  TV and and it sounds very good enough

  for TV for us and like I even run this

  by tiff like when we start having all

  these discussions and everyone's telling

  us you have to get a center channel you

  have to you can't you can't use the

  stereo mix it's terrible I asked him

  like hey you wanna do other stuff it'll

  apparently sound betters like no that's

  it just no and okay really I don't

  either so I don't even know why I'm

  asking so there you go no we don't want

  it but yeah I do understand it would be

  better but there are there are different

  factors here also like you know how we

  want it to look how we actually use it

  how we actually live you know so that's

  different when it comes to my headphones

  on the other hand right I actually

  recently bought a second pair of my

  awesome best headphones in the world

  headphones the hi-fi man he6

  because they they were discontinued a

  couple years ago and you kick him

  anymore so I actually bought a used pair

  on a forum that was in really like

  brand-new condition basically and so now

  I have a backup of those and of course I

  brought one here so because we're in the

  middle of a huge long a huge run of new

  fish shows I'm not gonna listen to that

  on my crap headphones I want to listen

  with my awesome headphones so here I am

  right right in the middle of a huge run

  of fish shows that before you finish

  that census like it's like are the fish

  spawning are they coming up onto the

  shore and if you get into your house

  like now nope eh of course

  well yeah well only one of them is good

  but is this a thing that happens is like

  the weather like during the summer

  that's when the fish shows come


  Christmas Island crabs they just crawl

  across the landscape and though there

  was fish they surely you know the credit

  am I getting the reference Christmas

  Island crabs am I getting that right -

  you know zone no I'm talking about your

  I see us yeah you're asking the wrong

  persons person versus people's

  I think people's the word Rams if you

  have never googled Christmas Island

  crabs you need to do that after whatever

  caused the show Google Christmas on

  crabs you should watch the videos and

  look at some of the pictures then come

  back oh my gosh you have to keep doing

  the show oh my god what is that what is

  going on why are they doing this that's

  when the fish comes and that's the

  representation of gigabytes of live

  music of oh my god there's waves and

  waves of these things and see waves is a

  very good song there's like three lyrics

  I'm just just a lot of guitar oh my god

  yeah got your meat stick right here we

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  from Squarespace we got a lot of people

  a lot of a lot a lot of people write in

  with opinions about bicycles who knew

  that so many people who listen this show

  at opinions about bicycles but there are

  a lot of people that do and one of the

  things that was striking to me and I

  wasn't really paying close attention to

  the feedback to this because quite

  frankly I don't care however a ton of

  people a ton of people wrote in to say

  that Eila bikes that's is LA which is

  apparently a UK company so this is

  all right exactly so anyways almost

  unanimously almost everyone who wrote in

  said oh you should get an Iowa bike

  they're the best they're expensive but

  they're the best so I actually took a

  note that when Declan is of age we need

  to look at these I love bikes because

  there was not a single person that said

  oh don't get in Iowa they're overrated

  but no everyone said get them so we'll

  put a link in the show notes to their

  uk-based website and then what is this

  video that I presume John put we did get

  tons of suggestions at first when they

  first started coming in like boy we'll

  have lots of links for the show notes

  I'll put links to all these people's

  recommended bike manufacturers but then

  there were just too many like there were

  just too many things so is buy we just

  won't move the grd rules Iowa bikes got

  the most recommendations second most

  recommendations was whoom bikes wo om

  bikes calm I think they have a us

  location because the URL have here is us

  thought one bikes calm there were a ton

  of other places these are both obscure

  some people are recommending less

  obscure things like REI and specialized

  but a lot of anyway bottom eyes people

  are finding bikes that they find

  satisfying but we'll just put these two

  links in if you're looking for ones that

  the majority of parents and/or bike

  nerds recommending them it was these two

  yeah well and and there were there were

  a ton of bike recommendations for what I

  should get like not just what I should

  get for my son but also what I should

  get I think what I what I'd have decided

  and this is based on not actually riding

  any of these yet what I want is very

  very low maintenance and simplicity so

  there I basically came down to a few

  things that that became things I really

  consider requirements that end up ruling

  out most of what people recommend also

  preferences so you know because I'm like

  do be moved if I'm riding in a beach

  town for instance I wanted like two inch

  tires not the little skinny one-inch

  ones that are better for like going fast

  on roads

  I want big two-inch one so that it's

  more comfortable it's better you know

  better if I like have to go on the edge

  of one of the walks and go into a little

  packed sand for a second I won't

  immediately just like stop and fall over

  like a skinny tire might you know it's

  so like stuff like that so basically my

  list of requirements became I want

  something that could accommodate two

  inch tires with fenders and the big ones

  are I want belt drive instead of a chain

  and I want there to be no God I don't

  know how to pronounce

  do you really order a yearly whatever

  that thing is

  yeah whatever the thing is that moves

  the gears you want you want an internal

  internal geared hubs and a belt drive

  you're so you're so trendy like you've

  never you've never had a bike with any

  one of these things but you already know

  that you want them because somebody told

  you that belt drive is better than a

  chain internal well ok first of all

  because the bike I have here now that

  came in the house in the basement is you

  know a rusty old mountain bike that has

  a derailleur and rusty a chain yeah but

  what but when they work they work fine

  believe me they're fine no it's not no

  it's not fine

  because because now we have better

  things like it was fine when I was a kid

  when I had my mountain bike rounds like

  in high school

  modern bikes would derail as I swear to

  you are absolutely fine there and don't

  use your credit file whatever I didn't I

  haven't used them either I can't say

  that they're bad I'm just saying like I

  don't don't pull them as hard fast

  requirements they're really funny things

  John is that they now have bike CVTs oh

  my god yeah look up NuVinci

  and it's it they have there's a CVT

  that's it's like about this it seem like

  it's about in the same price tier as


  decent like 11 speed internal hub I just

  thought like oh my god if I get a CVT

  John will die like I will never hear the

  end of it you know it'll be well you

  already I mean I was just thinking about

  this the other day both of you are

  slowly slowly fading from the manuals

  Marco doesn't even have anymore Casey

  well I guess you just replaced an on

  manual with an my manual but still

  exactly I'm the only one who's holding

  strong here anyway you take your CVT and

  just pretend it has gears just like the

  software does in most modern cars and

  it's making noises yeah so basically so

  my short list right now I'm still

  looking at various things some of the

  some of the headliners are priority the

  priority company and actually ordered

  our priority coast to have here at the

  beach house for like a general purpose

  bike because we have lots of people here

  TIFF wants to ride one also so I figure

  I'll get this try it out it's belt drive

  fixed gear coaster brake so it's very

  simple it's also fairly affordable it's

  like 400 bucks so I'm getting that to

  try it out at the high end if I get into

  this and I want a nice bike probably for

  home I am very very taken by the button

  it's bicycles or I don't I assume it's

  Browns button it's they're pretty

  expensive but they're very nice and that

  they basically make exactly what I want

  so I'm gonna try to find a showroom and

  try one of those out if I want a nice

  bike for home it's probably a little

  expensive for the beach so for the beach

  I'm looking at priority honorable

  mention for Breezer and Electra everyone

  recommended these two brands and I would

  like to investigate them like to see

  them neither of them really make what I

  want like they don't have all those

  things as a combination but yeah both

  Breezer and Electra look really really

  good also everyone says Trek you know

  there's a reason why Trek is so big and

  well-known I find the amount of branding

  on Trek spikes a little bit garish like

  they like across like the diagonal bar

  and the frame it just has those giant

  letters to say trick like I don't really

  want that like I want something a little

  more low-key and subtle which we get a

  Cannondale yes they do yeah like and

  yeah so like again like wanting a belt

  drive internal gearing 2h tires and

  minimal branding

  that rules out a lot of people suggest

  so I will I will follow up if I if I buy

  anything more I'm gonna do the priority

  for the you know for the next few days

  and then you know whatever it arrives

  try that out and then if I love it

  I'll just use that if I hate it it'll be

  the tif slash spare bike here and I'll

  keep Wow know she wants more question is

  why do you why do you want fenders

  because of the drainage on this island

  is not very good there's often in very

  large puddles I have to drive through so

  I just don't want it to splash back up

  on my back oh and for everybody who's

  sending me the IKEA bike I did look at

  the IKEA slaughter bike it is belt drive

  it has internal two-speed gear it is in

  my opinion one of the most boring

  looking bikes I've ever seen I would

  like a bike to have some visual

  personality it doesn't but not like not

  to scream its brand name and giant

  letters on the frame but to have like

  maybe a color that isn't just black and

  grey like that would be nice you know

  some kind of color is the guy who buys

  black cars my car is bright red mmm this

  one was although you know what though

  this priority beach cruiser bike that I

  ordered it does happen to be white you

  know it's funny Marco that can happen to

  a person from time to time can't it it

  was the only good color funny how that

  is Marco you know it can happen to a

  person from time to time

  can't it that's funny I can't wait to

  see pictures of you flow by on Instagram

  on your delete on your delightful white

  bike it honestly it looks really good in

  white white is not a bad bike color

  it's a terrible car color I think this

  bike looks super dorky which one the

  priority coaster I ordered it does yes

  super dorky this looks like a beach bike

  to me it's a beach bike yes and this

  company makes something they make other

  varieties per these priority bikes they

  make other varieties that are almost

  what I want like the the the continuum

  onyx and the classic Plus Gotham Edition

  like they're almost what I want but they

  only have skinny tires and because

  you know they're made for commuters and

  stuff so that so yeah that's I'm

  probably not gonna do that but I don't

  know anyway so this could be the one

  with us forever but we are in a huge

  hurry because we don't have any time to

  really talk about all these Apple rumors

  cuz I'm sure no one's heard enough about

  the MA there's that too we should we

  should also mention there's one of the

  link in the show notes with regard to

  bikes huffy apparently is being eaten by

  Walmart do you want to explain this John

  this is actually tangential to the

  larger Walmart it's a lot of stories

  about what is ruined by companies

  involved them pivoting to sell to super

  stores because that's where all the

  money is and then having to make

  crappier and crappier things and getting

  squeezed by the super stores that demand

  that you take smaller and smaller profit

  margins and that's this huffy store is

  actually something different it's for

  huffy got into deal with Walmart and

  didn't realize how many bikes they'd

  actually sell through Walmart and they

  couldn't actually manufacture them so

  they they let their competitors

  manufacture them and sell them don't

  make the money from them anyway Walmart

  is bad and we all feel bad but this is

  another bit of feedback from Ryan Ricard

  you said that uh Schwinn and Mongoose

  both pivoted to be bargain-basement crap

  for Walmart and Target you know a lot of

  these companies the name remains kind of

  like atari or commodore like the

  Mongoose name remains but it shares

  nothing with the brand of my youth you

  know everything about it

  the way the bikes are designed what

  they're made of what where they're

  assembled what their target market is

  everything is just you know so yeah

  that's a shame and you can kind of tell

  why he's looking at him but yeah super

  stores yeah and yet another thing super

  stores have tried to ruin bicycles I'm

  sorry John this is what it is John would

  you like to say face on your Christmas

  story line that you tried to quote ATP

  references uh do me the favor of looking

  at it's from IMDB and I always like

  here's what it whenever I look up movie

  quotes a lot because I want to get them

  right it's important for me to get them

  right and to revalidate the correct

  memory because very often I have a lot

  of movie quotes in my head and they

  mutate over time as you repeat them they

  change a little bit and so like 15 years

  and according something you're like

  super duper sure it's one way

  cuz you've said it a thousand times

  right but it's changed like through a

  game of telephone only it's been inside

  your head the whole time right and so

  it's changed inside your head anyway I

  always want to look them up but they

  don't trust in the internet texts of

  someone like oh here's this famous quote

  from this movie because text is not the

  movie you know the map is not the

  territory I need to see the video I need

  to see the clip from the movie and

  obviously that can be doctored too and I

  weep for our children who will be able

  to trust video even less than we do due

  to the easy ability to synthesize video

  sorry kids anyway that's progress for

  you but according to IMDB they up ramble

  aside the line I was trying to quote

  last time from Christmas story is the

  greatest Christmas gift I have ever

  received or ever would receive I think I

  missed the Hat greatest Christmas gift I

  had ever received or would ever receive

  anyway there it is dears with me but I

  do care awesome that's I should be the

  title of my biography no nobody cares

  but me but I do care

  the John Syracuse story that's perfect

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  good news is not a lot happened this

  week no things have happened

  my friends things have happened so let

  me do my best job as chief summarizer in

  chief and kind of do a 50,000 foot

  summary and then we'll dig him to the

  details which inevitably means you too

  will interrupt me and I'm about since

  three and I will never get to complete

  my summary but there was a home pod

  firmware that was posted to the place

  one would expect home pod firmware to be

  do you guys say firmware firmwares I

  would say firmware is the plural you

  would say firmware is like like

  software's well that's why I would say

  growing up but for a fleeting moment

  there I just thought yeah this should it

  be firmwares no it shouldn't be Wayne

  isn't isn't where's how you should have

  your supposed to pronounce W a are easy

  oh yes that is true yeah yeah did you

  ever say it that way in your head

  growing because I always said Juarez and

  Mexico no I definitely said where's in

  my head oh my dad where's to this I was

  gonna say you should cut this but no

  this is worth it now alright so anyway

  so where wherever you would expect the

  home pod firmware singular yet plural to

  be is where they found somebody had

  stumbled across

  upon firmware download and so a couple

  of people seem to grab a grab onto that

  well many people but particularly a

  couple of people seem to grab on this

  and start digging it apart a friend of

  the show can you concentrate we're

  professionals that's seven second ago

  joke kiba all right let's bring it back

  together kids bring it back together so

  two people really dug into this in

  particular and the two people were Steve

  John Smith who is a dear friend of the

  show and gear may Rambo who also did a

  lot of digging on this and so they found

  a lot of interesting stuff and the

  highlights were an image that is for an

  iPhone that is codenamed D 22 that looks

  like the image that we've seen off and

  on of this supposed I phone pro where it

  seems to be an edge to edge screen

  there's like a little notch at the top

  which presumably holds the speaker in

  the FaceTime camera there was some

  information about how apparently there

  will be front-facing IR camera that

  presumably looks to be for face

  detection and a bunch of other stuff too

  but that's kind of the quick quick quick

  summary so how would we like to dig into

  this I'll tell you one way we did not

  want to dig into this is by spring bug

  spray on our legs earlier so I could

  we'd whack all the tick infested grass

  out in front of the house and then

  coming inside doing a podcast with you

  fine gentleman putting my hands on my

  legs and then member my eyes oh that's

  not wise do you need a moment to collect

  yourself it's slowly going away I think

  I might be okay or you might go blind

  soon next time just accept the bug bites

  well there's ticks out there oh I'm

  gonna try not to touch my feet I'm like

  I was just put it on my legs that way I

  won't be a problem for the rest of the

  night like it is when you put it like on

  your whole body because it's like all

  you really need for ticks is to put on

  here on your feet and legs and I found

  one tick on me I'm Laurie island just a

  couple days ago and it was not on my


  yikes all right

  I don't want to hear the rest of that

  story yeah this sounds super ominous it

  had not bitten me yet it was still

  crawling trying to find a place to bite

  that's good I removed it was prejudice

  all right so what do we think if d-22 so

  I think well here's a couple thing so

  this I don't know if you want to go into

  the leaking things I guess we're going

  to that at the end but the information

  revealed once you leak the home

  platformer people thinking okay so what

  who cares they leak the home plot of fur

  where what the home pods not out yet we

  already know what it is it's a speaker

  tourney thing why why would we get any

  information from that and it's because

  it runs iOS and iOS has a bunch of crap

  in it and normally that crap is removed

  from bills that they release to the

  public even in the betas they remove all

  the stuff that they don't want you to

  see what might they not want you to see

  icons frameworks you know the names of

  symbols programmer e-type stuff and the

  people who pulled down this home plot

  firmware you know extract that stuff

  they look at all the frameworks and look

  at the names of the frameworks and the

  names of the functions and the symbols

  that are in them they look at all of the

  resources for different kinds of icons

  and graphics and and stuff like that it

  appears and dialog boxes and in the UI

  and you can learn a tremendous amount

  without even executing any of this code

  just because it happens to be iOS and

  this bill doesn't help that stuff

  excluded from it so we learned learned

  quote-unquote a lot of interesting

  things just by looking at the framework

  commands and the symbols and this is the

  whole frameworks having to do and you

  know classes and methods having to do

  with things about face recognition and

  recognizing different kinds of faces and

  why would that be in there well we are

  have the rumors are better recognized in

  your face you put two together and you

  say that's probably what that is down to

  the point where you're looking at like

  attributes and classes that say like in

  said and border-radius and stuff that's

  sort of confirming the idea that the

  entire edge to edge screen will be

  addressable with sort of curves around

  the edges you know and classes that

  might indicate how they might handle the

  home button at the bottom of the screen

  and displaying things there and stuff

  like that so it's it's kind of tea leaf

  reading in that we don't have any actual

  leaked hardware for the phone or

  anything like that where we just have is

  a bunch of symbols it functions but if

  you're a program

  and you're familiar with uikit and the

  rest of iOS and just programming in

  general you can kind of piece together a

  surprisingly detailed picture of how

  this new phone might work based on the

  iOS that was released as part of the

  home pod you know home pods OS release

  and so it's kind of a weird kind of a

  weird leak but it just goes to show that

  like anything on the internet you don't

  like it security through obscurity is no

  security at all it never has been but in

  the age of the internet even even less

  so but I was I was fascinated to see the

  slow leak of people pulling out all the

  different details of the OS to the point

  where there was really good blog post by

  Allen pike where he put so it puts it

  all together and says based on

  everything that we've seen here's one

  way that I think the theoretical phone

  might work from a software perspective

  so we've got Hardware rumors and then

  we've got a link of the home pod thing

  and then we from that synthesize this

  entire complete picture of one way that

  the the OS might work now

  it could be entirely wrong it could be

  you know something different than this

  but I was pretty impressed by this to

  say you know just the normal parts leak

  that you get plus a bunch of class dumps

  and icon files and now we have like a

  complete iPhone Pro possible scenario

  supported by all the available leaked

  evidence though I think it actually is

  pretty cool if they don't do this I hope

  they do something just as cool because I

  read this thing I'm like that a makes

  sense B fits with everything that we've

  been leaked and C is pretty neat yeah I

  completely agree yeah I mean like this

  it does like I I'm not a fan of the idea

  of this weird cutout into the screen

  with the cameras and everything like I

  don't I don't like that it seems like a

  weird hack but if they're going to do it

  this looks like a really cool way to do

  it like with the the whole idea of

  having a split status bar such that

  basically you it's almost as if the

  screens not cut out it's almost like if

  applications don't really have access to

  that area or if you only get it in

  things like over scroll areas

  navigation bars and stuff like that then

  it's still weird but it's a clever it's

  a clever hack it's a good question about

  things like where the clock goes and

  what about a stuff that won't fit in the

  cutouts like there's a lot in the status

  bar these days things like not having as

  much on Android though well that's true

  yeah I was just about to say the same

  thing oh my goodness looking at my

  co-workers Android phone Android phones

  that have just a mountain of icons up

  there a new Android phone that I just

  saw like at fresh out of the box no

  weird stuff on the Samsung Android phone

  100 icons in the status bar I may be

  overestimating but only slightly it's so

  true it's like a ticker-tape of icons

  and I think it's I think it's bad it's

  like a Mac user you've ever seen in your

  officers 100 icons of the menu bar Casey

  oh no I have fewer than most thank you

  very much you just start heating on the

  ISTEP menus that I have up there but no

  I like the the fact if you have to

  install bartender which I'm sure is a

  very great app if you have to install

  bartender you have bigger problems my

  friend then then just moving some of

  them out of your menu bar like you

  should just get them out into Oh God I'd

  hate apps that for some any bar icon of

  Trajan Hana's oh so actually I've

  derailed myself looking at the topless

  notes I mean look looking at the symbols

  and everything and having face

  recognition symbols like that is not a

  big a slam-dunk as people think if we

  didn't already have the face recognition

  rumor there's all sorts of weird symbols

  on there and maybe wouldn't ship maybe

  it's not ready like we didn't see we

  didn't see the internal builds of iOS 10

  for all we know these symbols could have

  been in there in iOS 10 they just didn't

  make the cut you know or something like

  that or whatever right but we have all

  those other rumors about being face

  recognition so this you know but it all

  adds up right the other part of this

  though is all the rumors about that a

  little unibrow thing a little notch to

  the cut I mean we talked we saw a little

  notch thing I think we talked about it

  when we're talking about touch ID being

  on the back and how they're gonna do a

  screen thing edge to edge and what they

  can and can embed in the screen and

  apparently they can embed like the

  cameras and if there's gonna be an IR

  sensor and the speaker and blah blah so

  this is not CH I think one of you may be

  Marco thought it was the not just

  doesn't seem like an apple thing to do

  way back when when we talked about it

  you know it's not elegant like you just

  said before like the notch seems weird

  doesn't it like it wouldn't it be great

  if the whole thing was

  it would be oh but we can't quite pull

  it off so what can we do well we'll do

  the best we can and leave this little

  notch right and that's always been the

  question though Apple wouldn't do it

  unless they could do the whole screen

  they're not gonna do a little notch

  thing kind of like people saying apples

  not going to put a camera that causes a

  bulge but they totally did because it's

  more worth it to have a really good

  camera than to make the back of a smooth

  so camera bulge here to stay and so in

  the home pod firmware at leak there is

  an icon for d-22 that is just it's not a

  picture of the new iPhone it is it's an

  icon like a little vector drawing or

  whatever other thing but it has to look

  like carnac that's let you know by

  looking at this little icon this is the

  phone we're talking about so if just

  basically like a rounded rectangle I

  imagine for the seven and seven plus

  sizes right but this one has the notch

  in it and it's the only thing in it it

  is a rounded rectangle and the only

  distinguishing characteristic Oh than

  the width and height and the border

  radius is the knotch

  and so this is a pretty hard

  confirmation of that notch because

  they're not waffling about whether it's

  give me a notch at this point there's no

  this this icon is in there and it

  doesn't seem like they would have this

  thing and the codename d-22 is right on

  what you expect it to be so this thing's

  gonna have a notch and that's weird

  and that's it's like the camera bump but

  even worse it's not as bad as touch ID

  on the back but it is a weird thing to

  do and so you know Apple rumors are that

  this this all screen OLED phone has been

  in the works for a long time and not

  them say it's behind schedule but I bet

  Apple would have loved to ship it last

  year but they couldn't it wasn't ready

  it now it's ready they're going with the

  notch so for me from this leak the most

  important thing about it is notches it

  go get ready get ready for not you're

  ready to love the notch get ready to

  deal with the notch get ready to fix

  your application that gets screwed up

  when the notches they're also on a press

  conversation about hey they change the

  dots to be bars you think they did that

  to get make room for the notch I think

  and it was like wow maybe but we didn't

  know if this is gonna be a notch well

  it's gonna be a notch so no more dots

  back to bars makes perfect sense I think

  what I like about this leak though is

  that it gives us enough to be really

  interested in this but there's still so

  much that we don't know that we're only

  going to know once we see the software

  running on this phone but we're probably

  we're almost certainly not going to see

  before the event so like even though

  like leading up to this we we had the

  idea of a lot of the major themes of

  this device leading up you know for

  almost the last year in all the rumors

  and everything but we didn't know many

  specifics and most of the most of the

  things we that we'd see like leaked or

  rumored or talked about here and there

  would be very vague and very unsure of

  themselves and oftentimes conflicting

  and so now even though this is now like

  pretty strong evidence of it being a

  certain way and so some of that surprise

  is now kind of spoiled what we have now

  learned you know and again it's not like

  knowledge it's not it isn't the fact it

  isn't a guarantee it's just very strong

  evidence in a certain direction

  but what this you know nearly confirms

  is not something that we is was totally

  unknown to us like there were rumors of

  all these things there were rumors of

  the notch there rumors of the face

  detection type stuff and depth cameras

  and everything like all that stuff what

  was rumored for months and that and that

  was already becoming the dominant

  narrative of the rumors that was

  becoming like where most of them were

  were kind of coalescing and gathering so

  it didn't actually spoil much surprise

  it just kind of like says all right this

  group of the rumors which was already

  the predominant ones this is probably on

  the right path but there's still so many

  questions that it's still very

  interesting to us and most of those

  questions are not going to be answered

  until the event they added some

  information to like again with the

  symbol dumps stuff that we wouldn't have

  known normally until the keynote because

  is software based right so there's a

  bunch of symbols having to do with

  apparently the camera detecting what it

  is you're taking a picture up you're

  taking a picture of person is it a plant

  it is a son is it a sunset is it you

  know whatever it might be

  most modern regular cameras have

  something oh I can tell it's portrait

  versus landscape as I do simple face

  detection but this was way more detail

  my friend a link to put all things but

  it was like figuring out in a fairly

  detailed manner what it is you're

  looking at and what we'll do with that

  information besides putting the word hot

  dog or not hot dog on the screen like

  presumably you can adjust the camera

  based on what it's looking at I get that


  it could metadata tag them or something

  I mean who knows but like those symbols

  are in there for you know and there's

  all sorts of other stuff about face

  detection or we assume that face

  detection where is that the face is half

  covered the face is smiling or frowning

  or like all tons of symbols that only

  make sense if if this phone with these

  set of sensors on it can figure out way

  more about what it's looking at whether

  it's looking at it to take a picture or

  looking at it to unlock your phone or

  whatever all these symbols indicate that

  there surely features somewhere in iOS

  11 running on this phone that are based

  on the camera having a much richer

  awareness of what's going on around it

  also including like presence detection

  are you in front of the phone or

  whatever so that I think added

  information none of that stuff had been

  rumored like wow you know we the rumors

  that oh it's gonna have camera and a

  notch and an IR sensor and face

  detection unlocking that's all the stuff

  that would leak but but the key note

  would be like oh and also now that we

  have all those sensors you know we can

  do we can know when you take a picture

  of a dog and tag it with dog and make

  this the smart search easier when you

  search for dog even if you took a

  picture of the tip of the dog's tail we

  you know we figured that out and like I

  don't like features like that are things

  normally we don't get to see until the

  day up so I think this is one of the

  biggest software leaks that has ever

  happened to Apple because I think it

  reveals potentially so much about stuff

  that they're gonna demo that they just

  assumed no one would know about because

  in general the software doesn't leak

  this I mean this is this is legal stuff

  this is a pretty big leak in terms of

  just oops

  like we didn't mean to put this build

  there by the way people wondering why

  why is this build accessible at all home

  pods have been testing on Apple

  employees and other people who were in

  the know have been testing home pods for

  a long time and they have a feed for

  software updates but that is a fee that

  is not accessible to the general public

  is only accessible to Apple employees

  right someone made a mistake and took

  the firmware that's supposed to go in

  that feed it's only accessible to Apple

  employees and put it on the public

  facing one and that is a pretty big

  mistake like it's kind of like taking

  you know I don't know like iOS 11 before

  any of the betas came out and putting it

  on a publicly accessible URL on the

  Internet and again it's security through

  obscurity it's like what

  you put something on a URL it's

  accessible Internet as long as no one

  knows the URL it's like people are

  randomly typing in URLs to guess where

  your thing might be that's exactly what

  they're doing and that you are always

  guessable because you just replace the

  word TV with the word audio in an

  existing URL for the TV OS updates and

  guess what you got this and somebody had

  a really bad day at Apple and I feel bad

  because you know it's you're human you

  make mistakes it just goes to show all

  the security and all these billions of

  dollars they spend you know it's not I

  don't think there's some malicious just

  someone someone made a mistake we don't

  like a snake sometimes you leave a phone

  in a bar sometimes sometimes you upload

  the the unredacted version of the new

  iOS that includes all the secret symbols

  for your new super secret phone onto a

  public URL and so I feel I feel kind of

  bad but I'm also kind of excited about

  exactly how much we were able to mine

  out of this and like Margot said and

  still and still we're not sure still we

  have to wait for the keynote to see

  which things are which it's a it's a

  little bit of spoiling Christmas morning

  to know how you know because I can

  extrapolate so many things that could

  possibly be there and the keynote will

  just be a narrowing but still pretty

  exciting do you um I don't have the link

  handy but there maybe it was now ins I

  don't think it was though but anyways

  there was someone who was critiquing no

  was a different UI designer critiquing

  what do you do with the knotch and

  there's like one of the approaches he

  approaches is you pretend the notch

  isn't really there and one of the

  approaches is you embrace the knotch and

  I think it was Steve trout and Smith

  that was saying oh I say embrace the

  notch you know make it visible make it

  plain but from what I see on like for

  example Alan's post where it's just a

  big black bar and presumably this is

  OLED so it would just kind of all blend

  in and there would just be this big gap

  in the center of the black bar but you

  wouldn't necessarily be able to tell

  very well what was there I think I like

  that at a glance more than this like

  embrace the notch make it white to the

  left and the right of the knotch what do

  you guys think about that let's start

  with Marco totally with you

  I think the design that makes the parts

  left and right of the not just black it

  makes it look like a big status bar that

  and to me is by far the best-looking

  option here

  and that is the one matter I think they

  should and hopefully will do but there

  is there is a risk I don't know if it's

  a big risk there's a risk that the

  desire to have these like over these

  like overflow areas these over scroll

  areas in the UI some wonder how like you

  know when I was seven ever since I was

  seven you've had like if you have like a

  navigation bar or a tool bar in an

  interface you could you have like the

  blurred version of the scroll view in

  the middle kind of under hanging though

  like the top and bottom like it kind of

  overflowed in those areas as you scroll

  I can see maybe the Apple UI designers

  wanting to do more of that with this

  newfound screen real estate and to have

  the to have these new areas both the

  little tabs next to the status bar and

  also the new like presumed home button

  area at the bottom I could see those

  becoming just over scroll areas but I

  hope they don't do that I hope if

  anything if they want to do that just

  make at the bottom one and not little

  tabs on top because having this big like

  you know file card shaped UI I think

  looks weird I don't like having those

  two tabs at the top be visibly like

  light-colored UI I think it should just

  look like a big status bar and you

  shouldn't even really really really

  think about the notch most of the time I

  agree so as I think it was Steve drought

  and Smith pointed this out but I think

  as well the thing that we extracted we

  the thing that has been extracted by an

  industrious hackers from the firmware is

  an icon of the phone and it's supposed

  to be identifiable so you look at that

  you know oh they're talking about

  whatever the iPhone Pro or the iPhone 8

  or wherever this thing's gonna be called

  so it needs to be a recognizable symbol

  at small sizes and the only

  distinguishing feature of that icon is

  the knotch

  so for in order to be able to look at

  that and say oh that means my phone

  which is the purpose of the icon that

  knotch has to be a distinguishing

  visible cat or visual characteristics of

  the phone as far as the users are

  concerned otherwise that icon is not

  useful for identifying it so that could

  be as simple as okay well it works

  exactly like you guys were just

  describing when you use it like it we

  pretend it's not there and just like the

  status bar but the lockscreen

  for example when we show your big

  lockscreen picture that shows with the

  notch all the time because that would

  make you know that's your first

  experience of turning on the phone you

  know we're seeing the lock screen or

  whatever that oh it's got a notch right

  if the knotch goes away when you launch

  apps you still recognize it as the phone

  with the notch because that's what you

  see when you first turn it on but I

  think at the very least Apple is

  embracing the notch to the degree to the

  degree that this icon is representative

  it doesn't mean you're gonna see it the

  whole time you're using it inside

  applications but it does mean that

  they're embracing it somewhere probably

  in the lock screen maybe also in

  springboard maybe also I mean I'm trying

  to think of you know if developers

  wanted to could they addressed it in

  show video and the knotch

  like overflow video bleeped like who

  knows how far it availables would be

  able to go but it seems clear to me that

  Apple in the same way they essentially

  embrace the camera by saying we're not

  hiding it it's there it's a camera bump

  look at it there's gonna be a notch and

  I think there has to be at least some

  context where the notch is absolutely

  visible and distinguished and a

  distinguishing characteristic to people

  I also would prefer like both of you

  alright fine I see the notch I get your

  branding I can identify my phone but

  once I'm using the application don't you

  know I know I don't need it doesn't need

  to be emphasized you can make it

  disappear with a nice status bar

  hopefully that's up to developers if

  developers want to do something fancy

  with the notch maybe they can and the

  same way you can mess with the status

  bar in weird ways to varying degrees and

  although I couldn't change the color of

  the status bar to anything you wanted

  back in the old days and they kind of

  clamped down on that no you could never

  you could have it be like white or black

  but you could never have it be arbitrary

  colors you could have a translucent one

  and kind of put like a window behind it

  you know to make it kind of fake to kind

  of fake it but I don't know of any apps

  that really ever did that with any

  success yeah and I actually you know

  either way they go with this I think the

  bottom part of the screen is actually

  more interesting that gets into what

  Allen Pike was talking about so the top

  line we assume it's a status bar and

  there's some interesting things you can

  do by you know getting you know going

  bleeding the pixels up higher on the

  screen because this it's almost edge to

  edge especially if you incorporate

  dodging to the status bar but the action

  happens down at the bottom where all of

  a sudden you've got all the screen

  where there used to be a hardware home

  button and of course you can draw a

  software home button there but you've

  got all this other space where you can

  draw things to what might you use that

  for and one of Allen Pike suggestions

  take your UI navbar wherever that class

  is called

  and take the current awkward arrangement

  with lots of white space and take those

  navigation controls like done or edit or

  whatever those little words that are up

  in the corner that are hard to reach in

  your big phone and shove them down next

  to the home button because now that's

  all a screen and it's actually easier to

  reach there's been a lot of articles

  recently about how it's easier to reach

  the bottom of your really big phone with

  your thumb the top of the really big

  phone so bottom navigation becomes more

  preferable than it was back in the days

  of the original iPhone size or even the

  5 size and it makes a lot of sense like

  whether they do that or not you look up

  and you go oh ok well that would work

  and it would make sense based on the

  design we currently see in iOS 11 betas

  but maybe they won't do that maybe what

  can you do with the bottom you've got a

  lot of pixels down there apples is

  surely gonna reserve some of them for OS

  related functions in in the sort of the

  default case where you don't want to go

  you know a full bleed video or whatever

  you could do interesting stuff down

  there instead of just showing a circle

  where you put your thumb presumably to

  use touch ID sensor that's

  may or may not be buried under the

  screen yeah it's funny because I feel

  like we have learned a lot in this leak

  but I think you guys are right that I

  don't know that we've learned all that

  much but we've more gotten some soft

  confirmation of a lot of the things that

  were already suspected and though I

  still think this is the second biggest

  leak that I've ever witnessed as

  compared to the what was at the iPhone 4

  that was found in the bar yep so I think

  that still takes the cake for the

  biggest leak but man this is a close

  second and and it's fascinating like I

  feel kind of bad for the Apple

  developers like the developers within

  Apple that have been working on this

  stuff and have been really sweating this

  and and we're hoping for the big splash

  surprise like that article was I think

  was that article that float floated

  around a like a month ago that talked

  about this but any or but or maybe was

  on the talk show live

  what was it doesn't matter somewhere

  they were saying you know really it's

  it's a bummer for the employees when

  something leaks the other employees and

  that kind of stinks but I do think it is

  fascinating and super cool how you know

  a couple of

  a couple of

  developers in particular have been able

  to kind of figure out all of this stuff

  just by going spelunking into the

  firmware and I should have expected

  something like this from a man with the

  surname of Rambo I mean this is how it

  this is how the Rambo's work right

  that's what we learned from the movies

  before and I just got from the firmware

  but like it's interesting to me that

  with home pod we reverted to the old

  nomenclature is back on the original

  iPhone the iPhone came with firmware

  because the phone phones don't run OS is

  silly its firmware right I'm obviously

  that's before you know it was called

  iPhone OS after that I believe and then

  it switched to iOS right but now on the

  home pod because it's so we'll see and

  doesn't have a screen even though

  they've extracted a screen resolution as

  far as iOS is concerned a very small

  screen resolution and potentially an

  humble number of addressable LEDs blah

  blah blah anyway now it's back to

  firmware it's like it's called you know

  the reason I got this in the URLs they

  change TV OS to audio uh so if you want

  to give it a name TV OS runs on Apple TV

  I owe s runs on you know iPhones and

  iPods and iPads and audio us runs on the

  home pod but we don't call it audio as

  it's still it's stuck in from I guess

  you got a starting firmware and work

  your way up do we start referring you to

  your actual OS update yeah that's a

  little bit weird I guess I want to make

  it seem like an embedded things also in

  case you were wondering about the Amazon

  echo show and the potential we discussed

  many times of Apple's home thing that

  sits in your home having a screen on it

  naming the thing audio s obviously

  doesn't nothing because you can rename

  or whatever you want they renamed their

  rests all the time but it's a pretty

  strong stake in the ground of this

  product or this product we already know

  but like in case you're wondering do

  they expect the operating system to do a

  lot of displaying of pictures no it's

  called audio OS like whether or not it

  has a screen that can show weird symbols

  or an addressable grid of LEDs under a

  diffuser or whatever the OS is all about

  audio any other thoughts about all this

  not really sure there's stuff that I

  forgot to put in the notes but there was

  there was so much so much stuff that was

  leaked and so many people digging and

  this that I couldn't even keep up with

  it yeah I feel like this should be like

  a four hour conversation for us but I

  really feel like we've we've kind of

  touched on all of it so well and also

  like I mean as Parker said before

  everything that's in this leak have been

  discussed before with the exception of a

  few additional symbols that lean towards

  features that hadn't been you know that

  could have been imagined but that hadn't

  been thought about you know like the

  camera understanding was taking a

  picture of and adjusting things but you

  can extrapolate that from the sensors

  and it shows how imagination plus the

  usual hardware supply chain leaks can

  get us most of the way there anyway

  OLED we've known forever screen

  edge-to-edge we've also known forever

  face detection was a big leak and then

  IR a sensor isn't like that how to

  support it touch a D in the screen

  versus the back is still up in the air

  nothing in this it goes one way or the

  other I think and then the home pod leak

  would just nail all that dying for us

  but we were already talking about all

  those things like I feel bad for the

  employees blah blah blah well if this

  leak could not happen

  we'd all be watching that keynote saying

  I can't wait to see the OLED phone that

  does face recognition with the next ice

  cream potentially with a notch in it

  like we were already there it's just you

  know it's just confirming stuff we're

  you know so you know it's it continues

  to be hard for Apple to be secretive

  about something that it's going to build

  literally millions of like months ahead

  of time like someone's gonna build them

  human beings are gonna build them and

  this information has value to many

  different parties the least of which is

  a bunch of Apple in there it's like as

  values like people who are designing

  cases or making clones or competitive

  they're like it's it's really it's

  really hard to keep this kind of secret

  and Apple continues to prove that but no

  matter how much money you have no matter

  how careful you are we're gonna find out

  about your phone Mac Pro is gonna be

  pretty secret though let me tell you

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  show what do you have John about this

  nickname that a grouper reported the

  Ferrari nickname yeah iPhone D 22s

  nickname may have been Ferrari oh yeah

  that make that makes perfect sense

  because we've all been talking about

  this phone in in that kind of way as

  they're gonna make phones like the 7 and

  the 7 plus and they're gonna be fine

  phones and those the normal ones but

  then there's the fancy one a fancy one

  is you know edge to edge screen and made

  of exact materials and gonna be more

  expensive and you know Ferrari it's the

  perfect name for it it's like it's not

  the phone that everybody's gonna have

  and a lot of the stories and a lot of

  Gruber's writing about has been about

  how hey this will be phone to be more

  expensive because though I make it the

  same price as the other ones it's called

  you know you're going to segment the

  market like good better best or whatever

  and be how they probably can't make as

  many of these like if this was the only

  iPhone that potentially they wouldn't be

  able to make as many of them because one

  or more parts in that are not being able

  to be manufactured in volume and the

  meta point about the Ferrari phone is

  like if Apple can only ever put

  technology in its phones that it can

  make 60 million of like for a launch day

  or whatever it's going to be a

  disadvantage against competitors that

  only have to make like

  million phones if you can make two

  million phones feel like I just need two

  million of this special awesome screen

  and apples like oh that screen is

  awesome we would love to put that screen

  that iPhone is sorry we can only make

  two million of those and they will

  apples like well we need 60 million well

  we can't make them any of that screen

  you can't put that screen your phone so

  this gives them an addition to

  segmenting the market like oh you want

  to pay even more for an iPhone Apple is

  happy to accommodate you yay what can we

  put in this phone that's worth the extra


  what could make it look cooler we could

  have fancy features like the face

  detection and the edge to edge screen

  and we can put components in it that we

  can only make 12 million over 15 million

  of them said of 60 mm making these

  numbers up but like whatever like and

  the Ferrari name fits of debt Ferraris

  cars that cost more than other cars they

  make fewer of them and they're really

  fancy so and Eddy Cue is on the board of

  Ferrari so everything fits it all works

  yeah yeah all right so no more thoughts

  on this leak I feel bad for the

  responsible party though my goodness I

  can't tell if my water smells like DEET

  or if my hands smell you deep that are

  handling the waters stop stop eating bug

  spray Marco it's gonna affect the show

  eventually Marco's I can tell Marc was

  drinking and I can tell when he's eating

  bug spray he is high today hey there's

  no more iPods except the iPod Touch

  which could be only one

  yeah that's Highlander John hi Liam yeah

  went over my head at least don't worry

  I'm still okay I didn't get a reference

  Oh can't get there can be only one this

  is a new low folks one isn't the most

  well-known reference the market will not

  get Highlander is now there can be only

  one is now in the lead

  I mean if you're talking about like most

  popular things that I haven't seen you

  got to go probably Lord of the Rings or

  Harry Potter or maybe Star Trek but but

  you but you know but this is differently

  you don't expect you to have seen

  Highlander we're not crazy but you know

  that is that is a reference to

  Highlander like it's at a very popular

  engine I mean we use many many times you

  don't have to have ever seen the movie

  to know that that anyway but I think

  that's the top of the leaderboard now

  because I would say that is pretty well


  anyway no more ipods sometimes I forget

  they still make them like I feel like

  that's the like the best time for Apple

  to discontinue a product quietly like

  this is when half people who hear the

  news say oh they still made those yeah

  like that's that probably is a good

  indicator that they that they killed in

  an appropriate time it was not too soon

  it might have been too late but it was

  not too soon and yeah I mean this is if

  anything I think this is I mean first of

  all yeah probably long overdue but

  second of all this might help usher in

  the post iTunes era because one of the

  biggest reasons that iTunes has to keep

  existing is because it's the only way to

  sync music on to iPods so maybe this

  will help that I don't know I mean I

  know this is up there with like the Mac

  App Store rewrite as incredibly unlikely

  predictions I've made recently but I

  don't know that they if they're going to

  do it they have to lay the groundwork to

  finally like fix / replace iTunes and

  one of the biggest ways to do that is

  first of all get rid of the need for to

  ever run on Windows and then second of

  all get rid of the need for it to sync

  iPods and like if you can do those

  things which are related you can clear

  out a lot of the need for it to hold on

  to all this old Kroft there was a leak

  related to that actually I think it was

  actually a Mac OS leaked some sort of

  thing in Mac OS that was like oh you

  know like quick looking on a video or

  something was like open this in in

  movies or something like that instead of

  open in iTunes right it was like a

  string for a dialog box thing that

  opened it in one of Apple's incredibly

  boring Lee named applications like

  there's no more iTunes now we have an

  application called movies and an

  application called podcasts and an

  application called music and that is

  totally what Apple would do was their

  super boring games anyway that's coming

  we all know something like that is

  coming and you're right getting rid of

  the iPods does does help it what if they

  don't use those boring names

  what if they pull a planet of the apps

  and they call every single one of the

  new apps Apple music yeah that would

  make just as much sense as this TV shows

  on Apple music well they did call it

  Audio os2 they have they always have to

  every time they solve solve a naming

  problem by like a lining

  stupid capitalization of all the row

  asses to be worse uniformly worse then

  they make a new crisis of naming which

  is like you no audio OS and Apple music

  with TV shows on it but they'll sort it

  out yeah so I don't know what the

  timeline is and those things seems like

  a lot to bite off but I'm you know even

  though it is totally fine to get rid of

  the iPods like their time has come there

  are still people who miss things about

  them and you know not that I miss the

  products specifically about I miss Apple

  being in that market so what kind of

  mark are we talking about well a lot of

  people have been running about missing

  the shuffle because it's just so darn

  small and some people don't want to

  strap a phone to them and like oh I just

  got an Apple watch that's the the watch

  is the new shuffle right you don't you

  know you just wear your watch and does

  so much more than the shuffle does the

  shuffle is kind of like being in some of

  the same markets is Fitbit and make an

  incredibly cheap thing that you don't

  mind too much when you put it through

  the washing machine does one simple

  thing well now that it has them in the

  shuffle a long time it's that one simple

  thing not really well because getting

  music on it was super pain but imagine

  something that was similar form factor

  and price to the iPod shuffle but you

  never needed to connect the iTunes like

  they did everything wirelessly and it's

  sync with all your music and you know

  like people would buy that for 50 bucks

  Apple doesn't want to be in the market

  to sell you that little Terrier 50 bucks

  like they've stayed in it a lot longer

  than anyone thought they would

  who knows how cheaply they can

  manufacture those things now but it's

  kind of a shame that Apple doesn't want

  to go that far down they just want to

  sell you glass rectangles of varying

  sizes the smallest one they're gonna

  make so far it's gonna be on your watch

  that's probably great for everybody but

  the Apple watch is not the same market

  as 50 dollar piece of crap electronic

  thing that you just clip on to your

  clothes that is you know incredibly

  lightweight and that has access to all

  of your music like effortlessly so I

  hope to see like the return of the

  shuffle like if Apple if the Apple I

  used to be successful five years from

  now or whatever you know the watch gets

  super cheap and travels down to that

  segment or some other you know some

  other things some other sort of you can

  find it in a box of cereal incredibly

  cheap don't really worry about it too

  much but also incredibly light and also

  empowered by Apple's sort of ecosystem

  like all the stuff they have all you

  your podcasts or music and you know all

  the clouds stuff I mean talk about

  having cellular to the Apple watch which

  we talked about many years ago as an

  inevitability you know a tiny iPod

  shuffle that has access to your entire

  library of music and podcast

  it also has cell access that cost 50

  bucks like I would love that product in

  10-15 years so I hope not that the iPod

  comes back but that form-factor come

  back and that Apple doesn't rosanna it

  doesn't continue to travel up market

  without remembering they can also extend

  down market as well I think ultimately

  the the biggest problem and probably the

  reason why this was killed and why this

  doesn't exist you know it hops us Krantz

  I major let me let him in so I had a

  tough love I ferberize my dog he's

  whining out there she's whining out

  there and you know I just just wait it

  out eventually you know we put it on

  airplane mode what does that even mean I

  don't want to make fun of you so badly

  for that but that is genius all right so

  I think one of the reasons why they

  killed the iPods now and and why I think

  John your hope for a shuffle is totally

  futile is that my 15 years come on cut

  me a break here but like I'm going to

  come back tomorrow

  first of all I have own shuffles my

  first I think my first two iPods were

  shuffles and I was not as big of a fan

  but I think that the big problem now and

  and one of the reasons why they could

  probably do this now and kill all the

  iPods now is I think it's easy for

  people like like us basically old

  computer nerds to overestimate how many

  people actually still maintain their own

  music collections you know these days

  streaming is so popular it is it is the

  default of what everyone does so many

  people either never built up a music

  collection or have abandoned it you know

  years ago for streaming services that I

  think the whole idea of a music player

  that you sink a collection of you know

  DRM free locally stored files that you

  sync those on

  - this music player and bring it with

  you somewhere I think that whole idea

  has had it today and is done and I don't

  think it's coming back that's not really

  do the form factor I said it would have

  to have cell access and have access to

  the cloud stuff that includes Apple

  music that includes Spotify well then

  that's that's that's a cellular Apple

  watch basically and and there they might

  be allegedly making right but it's not a

  watch it's not a watch and it's not

  gonna be $300 like a $50 thing then it's

  a phone you can connect all your cloud

  stuff to and your podcasts which aren't

  the same as you know you could stream

  your podcast that's fine but yourself to

  know what podcast you subscribe do

  anyway all the existing cloud stuff the

  existing cloud stuff is Apple music you

  know iTunes Match your iCloud music

  library your podcasts Spotify everything

  like that

  all those ecosystems even if it just did

  like okay like the watch does now like

  well the watch can't get there by itself

  but it can go on Wi-Fi and it can talk

  to your phone or whatever they the whole

  point is they don't want to sell

  something that's 50 bucks that you can

  listen to music and podcasts on

  regardless of how you do this they just

  they're you know you can't

  technologically do what I'm describing

  right now cuz it would cost more than 50

  bucks and the $50 thing they have now

  sucks because it's so hard to get the

  music onto it and it's so hard to use

  right so I'm just hoping they come back

  to that when technology catches up I

  hope they don't say well you got to buy

  a watch in the watch out we starts at

  $1.99 like it never goes below that

  because you know Apple and prices that

  was keep going up market I hope I hope

  they extend back down because kinda like

  the iPod accidentally ended up 50 bucks

  or whatever the shuffles bar because the

  first shuffle was $1.99 or something

  like that yeah

  820 just so happen I think yeah like in

  a rare case of it becoming cheaper or

  cheaper to make this type of thing it

  just so happened that the price dropped

  down and people didn't care about it and

  you know it's one of those cases where

  app even Apple

  couldn't fight against the fact that

  this thing was incredibly cheap to make

  I wonder how much the shuffle that they

  were selling for whatever they were

  selling for actually cost them to

  manufacture the margins were probably

  big but they probably sold nine months

  who cares

  um but that's what's happening with all

  electronics that's why the watch is

  going to get Cellular's because

  eventually you can do that that fits in

  that form factor and in that price that

  will eventually happen for something

  like a shuffle and so I hope when that

  does happen that Apple revisits that

  especially as they expand out there it's

  like they're doing it but the phone

  diversifying the phone to make a big one

  they're small and now they're gonna make

  a big one a small and and a medium

  expensive one like this always room like

  they were said they're not gonna leave a

  price umbrella

  it's just that Apple loves to go upwards

  like how we make it even more expensive

  Foam let's make a bigger net 100 bucks

  let's make it all glass another hundred

  bucks like that's it's totally Apple way

  to do and that's great they should do

  that they should also make a really

  expensive Mac Pro that we'll all

  potentially buy but the other direction

  like don't just accidentally land there

  revisited and you know in many years

  when you can make the shuffle that I was

  describing because I think they can sell

  a lot of those things enough that to

  make it worth their while and people

  people do like them they don't like the

  old shuffle because now is out outdated

  but if they made a new one that did all

  that stuff a lot of people about it I

  say there's mostly because I see people

  with fit bits which fitbit's would do

  almost nothing and a junkie and people

  put through the washer all the time but

  I see a ton of them so I think there is

  you know there is a there is a market

  for so cheap you don't worry about it

  too much

  wearables that do something useful yeah

  there is in general but I think there's

  a lot more of that in the fitness

  community than there is in the audio

  playback market like it you know I think

  when you're looking at just having a

  small audio player the shuffle did make

  sense for a while too as a thing that is

  in life again I will stand by the fact

  that it was never good but but it was it

  made sense to exist in cell and it was

  fine for certain uses but now you are

  you're starting from a place where by

  default you assume everyone has a phone

  and then so you're what you're saying is

  basically like or like the the case that

  a shuffle would have to make is not I

  need some of the complete music on the

  go because your phone is that thing and

  you already have that so that's

  effectively free for you like there's no

  additional cost for you to have music on

  the go you already have that with your

  phone and so now it's well if you want

  to buy something else something smaller

  that you can clip onto your body maybe

  because of certain types of workouts

  that you do like running where you don't

  want to strap a phone to you or you know

  something like that

  well then their answer is the watch then

  their answer as well if you're doing

  these things we already have something

  small that completely you can clip to

  your body it's better than anything it's

  better than any shuffle ever made

  because it you don't have to clip it to

  some part of your clothing you just

  strap on your wrist in a location that

  people are totally fine wearing things

  most of the time and it doesn't you

  don't you there's no wires you can't

  plug a wire into even if you wanted to

  so you don't have a headphone wire they

  have to route somewhere along your arm

  or strap it down or through your shirt

  anything like that you can just use

  bluetooth you don't have to work with

  the air pods right exactly and so for

  the shuffle would do that too yes but if

  you're saying like Apple should sell a

  small inexpensive wearable device that

  you can sync music to in a modern way

  that can run modern apps and modern

  streaming services and can stream things

  to bluetooth that's smaller than a phone

  they do it's called the Apple watch and

  I don't think it's ever gonna get down

  to 50 bucks I already said that like

  they could if the way they can get to

  that market is they're making a fifty

  dollar Apple watch that's fine

  but if they never want the Apple watch

  to go down to 50 bucks what I'm saying

  is there's still place when to put

  something like that if they don't

  they'll put this way if they don't do it

  in a Fitbit is still in business Fitbit

  will make this because Fitbit already

  sells you something that is small

  lightweight cheap that does less than an

  Apple watch and eventually if they can

  sell something at that price and Apple

  doesn't then Fitbit will in the same way

  that Fitbit will sell a thing that

  counts your steps it's much cheaper than

  an Apple watch and Apple thus far can't

  make an Apple watch that's cheap because

  it's too complicated right so they could

  you know I'm just saying like don't

  don't leave this market out and I'm

  saying not to do it with the watch

  because thus far Apple has made the

  watch to be not upscale like the

  addition days are behind us but they're

  still making the ceramic ones and

  they're all about fashion and fanciness

  it seems to me that there is less of an

  appetite to bring the Apple watch down

  to 50 bucks even if they can technically

  so that leaves the room for if they

  don't want to do that and if they don't

  want Fitbit to sell that thing these

  room to bring back something like the

  shuffle in the future that is

  essentially it just an Apple watch

  without a strap and maybe without a

  screen on it even if you want to make it

  super cheap I think we can all agree

  though that no one is crying for the

  iPod Nano yeah and and that was so good

  for so long but that time

  long past yeah my first Apple products

  if memory serves were the original iPod

  shuffle that looked like a stick of gum

  or pack of gum I guess I should say and

  then following that an iPod Nano the one

  that was really easy to scratch the back

  of and I think there was like a

  class-action lawsuit or something

  scratch the front not the back the front

  what's the front okay yeah right way

  either way those were my first two Apple

  products so I think I have a similar

  reaction to every one or a lot of people

  which is well that that kind of sucks

  but no actually it doesn't because who's

  really buying these anymore anyway so

  yeah and they also do we already did we

  already mention that the capacity bumped

  the iPod Touch as well which is nobody

  cares I know you know is even worse than

  I have my phone I see users now it's

  been so lucky that's why I had to leave

  it like it was just fall you know

  getting a phone cuz I was gonna get

  phone but like they you know updated in

  forever and yeah they bumped the

  capacities but left the price is the

  same but it's still overpriced like the

  problem like it's not it's not super

  expensive but for what's in it like I

  find it hard to recommend that product I

  suppose if you want to get something for

  your kid and it's still cheaper than an

  iPad right but I find it really hard to

  recommend that product at the current

  price and capabilities if they want if

  they don't want to can the iPod Touch

  which apparently they don't want to do

  because it could have just canned it now

  they need to get it on they need to give

  a slightly better upgrade cycle I mean I

  guess they're not motivated to do that

  because you know it's it's uh it's like

  the Mac Mini of the iOS line it's like

  well it's the product exists in our

  lineup and people do buy it and it fills

  a role but we're not killing ourselves

  to make a new one so it's got what it's

  got the a8 in it now like when the a12

  is out can we update the iPod touch

  again you know a capacity bump like come

  on I just if you're gonna have it may be

  updated every once in a while that's all

  I'm saying it's also interesting like

  how it fits now in the lineup you know

  first so you have the iPod touch at what

  200 bucks even is that the base yeah I

  think so then you have at 3:29 the new

  cheap iPad it seems like you're getting

  way more exactly you get way more with

  the iPad

  and then at 400 you have the iPhone se

  which if you still want a small device

  that is you're getting way more for the

  iPhone se than you are with an iPod

  Touch of 200 now granted that's I've now

  doubled the price but like I feel like

  any discussion of what the iPod Touch

  should or shouldn't have or should or

  shouldn't be updated or how it should be

  priced has to also then consider how it

  fits in with these other low-end

  inexpensive iOS devices yeah I mean it

  is kind of you know people sound like

  all the real iPods are on the iPod Touch

  was never really an iPod it was an iPod

  a name only but now it is it's actually

  filling the role of the iPod because why

  in the world would like so you're gonna

  get a kid you know it's get a kid so

  then I can have a phone you don't want

  to this kid doesn't have a cell number

  this kid is 6 years old right you want

  to get them an iOS device you're gonna

  get that kid that iPad right unless what

  the kid actually wants is a music player

  because the iPad is not a great music

  player to carry around with you at

  school or whatever like say the kid is

  you know 11 or 12 and maybe just want to

  have fun yet right parents will want to

  pay for a cell data plan so I thought

  any kind of iPhone is out because

  they're not paying for a cell data plan

  it's a waste to buy an iPhone and pay

  that extra Spencer or something it's not

  gonna be a phone but a kid would still

  rather have it an iPad to watch YouTube

  on and stuff too

  unless they want to carry it around the

  school and listen to music or whatever

  they would run with it or you know take

  it with them to camp or whatever it's a

  music player as the only the only

  advantages has is its small size

  everything else about is a disadvantage

  like because the price is too close to

  the to the cheap iPad it's really slow

  the storage capacity so it's kind of

  weird the iPod Touch just now is now

  actually living up to its iPod name

  because literal only reason for

  existence in any sensible thing is to

  fill the role of a non phone thing that

  you can also get access to all of your

  you know and I suppose text messages if

  you have Wi-Fi but it is more iPod like

  than has ever been before which is kind

  of depressing because it you know as I

  pointed out many times was once the

  fastest iPhone iOS device you could buy

  for a brief moment in time those days

  are long gone that was John's favorite

  brief moment in time that's what I feel

  like a part of the probably a big part

  of the market for the iPod Touch in

  addition to being eaten alive by the

  low-end iPad has probably also been

  eaten alive

  by the increasing numbers of people who

  just give old iPhones to kids like it's

  a good point

  I now know a bunch of parents of young

  children in like that that had age range

  where like they could have an iOS device

  but you don't want to give them a good

  one and I don't know any of them that

  have an iPod Touch they're all using

  their parents old iPhones it's you know

  like iPhone 4s and stuff like that like

  that of that age range or maybe an

  iPhone five like they're all using those

  and so like granted not everybody keeps

  their all devices a lot of people trade

  them in or sell them to help fund the

  new ones but I've had a lot of people

  who want it who have you know children

  of this age range they just give them

  what is that what they already have in a

  drawer somewhere which is a few years

  old iPhone okay maybe a little but I'm

  trying to think of why didn't we do that

  with our kids I mean from the beginning

  was because yeah I had the old iPod

  Touches in them but we actually did buy

  two brand-new iPod Touches it when we

  ran out of my old supply of iPod Touches

  right but the kids still wanted

  something that was better and faster you

  know that my old iPod Touches for two

  crappy for them which they really were

  at that point we had the choice we could

  have said well why don't we take you

  know the old iPhone for us and give it

  to one of the kids or we could just buy

  a brand new iPod Touch and we ended up

  buying a new iPod touch you know twice

  we did that for a variety of business

  you know because it was cheap because

  it's new because the battery will be

  fresh all the kind of reasons you know

  that you might so it's for us when we

  had access to both of them you know we

  could have gone either way on it so I

  don't think it's always a slam dunk but

  you know it depends on it depends on how

  often you upgrade your phones if y'all

  read your phone every year you have a

  much greater supply of reasonable ish

  iPhones to go through something also

  some people might want to resell their

  iPhones like if you do upgrade every

  year you can get some good money for

  reselling your iPhone and maybe that

  makes up the cost of the iPod Touch

  anyway I'm sure they're not selling too

  many of these but they don't gonna break

  that out for us but they did keep it

  around just like the Mac Mini so I'll

  keep our eye on it

  iPod Touch Deathwatch begins now oh my

  goodness and speaking of death watches

  flash is on the verge of dead like for

  real for real pleasure this is another

  one of those things where the correct

  response is they were

  making flash yeah I could tell they were

  still making flash because I still come

  across websites that require flash or

  don't work right or complain that my

  version of Flash is updated I'm like

  still really what is what is this

  website why do you want me to have flash

  I just want to see some video what

  century are we in but the reason this is

  a story is because Adobe the makers of

  flash are saying we're not going to do

  that anymore okay so finally like you

  have no choice people who continue to

  make websites with flash soon you will

  not be able to get flash our Flash

  plugin that works in modern browsers

  because Adobe is not going to spend more

  time developing it and blah blah blah so

  truly only Adobe could really ever kill

  flash because if they continued to make

  it and sell it as again a product in

  their lineup some people buy it and use

  it and force you to have it for their

  web sites and those are bad people and

  so I'm glad Dobies putting it into this

  how do you really feel thanks to our

  three sponsors this week Casper

  Squarespace and audible and we will see

  you next week now the show is over

  they didn't even mean to begin as it was

  accidental accidental

  research Marco and Casey wouldn't let

  because it was accidentally was

  accidental and you can find the show

  notes at a s ey l is s so that's K

  sealless and a are Co AR m and T Marco

  Arment si are a Syracuse

  so John how was your big vacation I

  really want to hear more about this is

  the same as it always is I always go

  down to Long Island for it's usually

  just a week this time it was almost two

  weeks because reasons and we took the

  dog with us this time we've gone on

  there with dog before but that was our

  other dog and he was much better behaved

  than this little monster well she's

  still a puppy though yeah she was much

  older dog but we survived we had pretty

  okay weather took a lot of pictures

  filled up a lot of memory cards filled

  up my wife's iMac we came back home she

  got that warning that Ohio s will give

  you that says your disc is running low

  in space which is never good worrying to

  get because Mac OS like so many UNIX is

  before it does not behave well when it

  runs out of disk space things get very

  bad very quickly so I had to come home

  and well I try to delete a bunch of

  pictures but then you got to go into

  recently deleted and delete them and you

  know I do I did as much picture deleting

  Isaac oh but the bottom line is pictures

  don't pictures only accumulate

  essentially you know you just keep

  taking more of them and you don't delete

  the old ones and there have been more

  worthless into leaving them than they

  have in the past not just out of focus

  or bad ones but just like you know just

  deleting everything except for the ones

  I think are decent but then I have to go

  through her computer and delete a bunch

  of other stuff too so polla just can

  menteur EXI look for alternatives I know

  there's a bunch of alternatives that

  people like people like dayz disk grande

  perspective is a discriminatory acts

  look-alike type program space gremlin is

  my favorite oh I don't know about that

  one I got checked going up it's fairly

  hideous but it's pretty functional I

  like the the tree map view of the big

  rectangle I liked disconfort inventory

  axis I'm concerned that it's not being

  maintained and it sometimes does some

  weird stuff that bothers me a little bit

  so that's why I just download a grand

  perspective but anyway if you've never

  used one of these programs or omni just

  sweeper or Daisy disk whatever whichever

  one you want when you're trying to free

  up disk space this is the way to do it

  get a program that will show you somehow

  all the stuff that's on your disk and

  find the big things and don't spend a

  year going through a million tiny files

  to fair what to delete delete like three

  big ones right and that

  so deleted a bunch of games from Steam I

  moved my iTunes backups to a different

  volume yes speaking of things you can

  safely delete with this new modern age

  I tuned zdevice backups are huge most

  people have no idea that they're even

  still keeping those if they don't use

  them anymore and they take up tons of

  disk space so that's a number one hit is

  like you've got to get rid of those

  iTunes backups also if you're a

  developer Xcode keeps around all sorts

  of support files for old simulators and

  old devices that you probably don't use


  the Xcode developer directory is always

  a great source of clearing out stuff

  yeah I still keep the iTunes device

  backups just because it's is still even

  with the crappiness of iTunes slightly

  the fastest and most convenient way to

  restore like a kids a device that got

  totally hosed so I keep them around I

  didn't want to leave them all I didn't

  need to obviously all the old ones that

  for device that I'm using abroad just

  move them to a different volume that

  isn't backed up they don't like if I

  lose them oh well these are all the

  devices are all backed up the iCloud

  right so I just have local iTunes

  backups you know it's just convenient

  encrypted backups I have all the

  passwords though I think they added that

  to the iCloud backups - now didn't they

  anyway more backups is good so I didn't

  want to delete them I just moved them

  what else did I delete well the trick

  now is so if you want the password

  doesn't have to be saved they're still

  excluded from from iCloud backups but

  iCloud keychain now exists so the

  official the official word of like how

  you're supposed to do this is to use

  iCloud keychain also in addition to

  iCloud backups and then you will have

  those things work so that saves a lot of

  spend up freeing up like 130 gigs or

  something which gave me a little bit

  more breathing room but it's that you

  look at the disk inventory acts like

  giant rectangle picture and it's just a

  huge rectangle that is my photo library

  and there's a little skinny row with a

  bunch of tiny little things that is

  everything else on the system and what

  can you do like I got the biggest you

  know it's a one terabyte drive and her

  iMac and that's the time we moved you

  know we moved the photos from an

  external drive to an internal one it's

  so much more convenient and fast

  obviously to have everything in one

  volume before I have this even more

  complicated backup scheme where I had

  you know her internal drive on her old

  computer but then also my external


  and then you had to do like it just

  doubles the amount of backup headaches

  that you have to do and I like having it

  all one but at this point you know when

  we replaced this iMac I'm gonna get her

  one with a two terabyte disk or gonna

  move the iPhoto library to my Mac Pro

  with the 4 terabyte internal SSD where

  the hell are going to get in my fantasy

  world that's actually that's that's a

  non not crazy way to do it like one of

  the little hacks I've recently decided

  to try was I have you know my iMac and

  then a laptop and they have one terabyte

  each cuz that was like the most fecund

  iMac at the time and so I got that but I

  I'm pushing that so like on the iMac a

  couple of years ago now I bought a

  little external Samsung SSD too and I

  moved over it's very very easy to have

  iTunes and Apple photos store their

  giant libraries anywhere else like on an

  external driver and it's very easy to do

  that you'd like you don't have to do any

  kind of weird symlink trick or anything

  you can just tell it I'm now moving this

  here and and it just works and both for

  both photos and iTunes and so and

  because there's such big things for most

  people does you know that's like number

  one hit rate to move but one thing I

  started doing now with photos is I

  signed it so I have this Mac Mini server

  at home it's like a little home utility

  server among other things that usually

  runs the live stream for this show it

  also hosts a giant ice cozy volume on

  mine ass and this is I would not

  honestly recommend doing ice Guzzi it's

  too much of a pain if I were starting

  fresh today I wouldn't do it but what I

  would do is just plug in a couple of

  giant external hard drives to that Mac

  Mini which would serve the same function

  so anyway so I have this Mac Mini that

  thinks it has a whole bunch of locally

  attached storage so one thing I've

  started doing now is I signed in to

  photos app on that Mac Mini and I'm

  having it keep a local copy of a hundred

  percent quality of everything so now I

  can safely if I want to I'm not sure if

  I will but if I want to now I can I can

  have future computers not keep my entire

  photo library on them and therefore

  maybe I don't need to buy the giant

  expensive 2 terabyte or future 4

  terabyte options you know

  now maybe I could get quote only the one

  or two terabyte SSDs built-in so that

  now because I have this other of Mac

  press other Mac Mini in my house that is

  keeping a full resolution copy of

  everything locally and you know the

  third option is you could just trust

  cloud backup I don't like that option so

  I still have this thing locally I still

  have everything locally like it in my

  house but it's hard to you know because

  once as you said John like once you add

  photos to your life

  you're basically gonna keep paying for

  that storage forever like you know every

  computer you buy you're gonna have to

  get the bigger and bigger disk each time

  and you're gonna have to keep paying

  that giant has--is D tax over and over

  and over again every time you buy a

  computer so one way to solve it is see

  if there's some kind of clever way you

  can use other or different or cheaper

  hard drive space in your house and so

  for me having the Mac Mini signed into

  Photos app and having having that down

  all the originals then frees up the

  other computers to have it do the

  optimized storage thing and so yeah that

  that's one option this could be crazy I

  don't know but it seemed reasonable when

  I set it up no I mean I did the same

  thing I have another Mac that signed

  Emily one terabyte disk you know thing

  is I just don't like in the same way

  that raid is not a backup solution I

  don't consider that a backup like it's

  good to have it but I would never turn

  on up to my storage on my iMac because I

  need one canonical location that I want

  that backed up the old-fashioned way you

  know three times the time machine to two

  separate disks cloud backup and also

  super-duper clone like the photos are

  the most important thing that I backups

  so I bought them in more places not

  fewer so I never I'm never gonna uncheck

  I'm never gonna check that off to my

  storage box even though like I did this

  that's what I did in vacation I took a

  laptop with me on vacation with the one

  terabyte drive right and so I'm taking

  the pictures signed into the same

  account my wife's account like I made on

  this laptop and I'm doing all the

  pictures there and doing all the edits

  and everything and deleting and

  favoriting and doing all this stuff and

  then I come back home and the whole time

  I'm leaving my laptop open all night

  long I like to upload you know the

  iCloud photo stuff right and then I come

  home and look at her iMac and there all

  the pictures all the edits that I did on

  vacation are basically there except for

  a few stragglers and then I leave both

  computers like on and connected to Wi-Fi

  for a couple you know for like eight

  hours to make sure okay guys we're all

  in Sigma P said this

  point my photos are only on the laptop

  like I've had to overwrite I brought two

  SD cards with me but I had to overwrite

  one of them right so I don't even have

  the SD cards as the backup photos are

  only on the laptop and the laptop is

  pushing out to the cloud and then I want

  them to be pulled down from the cloud

  onto what's supposed to be by a

  canonical computer which is the iMac

  normally after I'm a hundred percent

  sure that no one is doing me syncing and

  everyone is all in the same page and

  everyone's got all the original quality

  images on two computers and they're

  backed up a hundred times only then can

  I turn on up to my storage on the the

  laptop or more likely I'm just going to

  you know delete that account on the

  laptop whatever because there's a

  temporary thing but I'm really like the

  thing with Mac Mini I would love to have

  a solution like that if I had the disk

  space and another Mac to throw at it

  but in general I don't I want my backup

  my backups to use different software

  than the regular functioning of stuff I

  think for a while I also had it on my

  Mac on my Mac Pro the same thing without

  in my storage on but not to my storage

  is to to blunt of an instrument like I

  wanted to I want some control over the

  optimized storage I don't want to be

  like will almost feel you're just giving

  back off I would love to say optimized

  storage and never get bigger than X size

  right or so I don't know something to

  let me have more control or like keep

  the originals for the last X months or

  years yeah for that you can start our

  coven you know stuff like that but also

  to clarify by the way that Mac Mini that

  hosts this full size library that

  everything it has is also back up to

  Backblaze yeah so there were always

  people in chat asking so I figured let

  me save myself a week of email just say

  that's also backed up too late

  yeah that's why it's I scuzzy speakers

  at that place doesn't do network discs

  so you need you know direct attached

  storage that's exactly it

  yeah and I have a feeling I don't think

  photos dot app would appreciate being on

  a network disk either anyway yeah if I

  were starting over honestly if I were

  starting over today with like large

  stories like this I would not get an ass

  I would just get I would just have like

  have another Mac somewhere or another

  computer somewhere in your house that's

  you know small speck inexpensive and

  just plug in a few large external hard

  drives and call it a day

  because and and then because then you

  can have things like Backblaze backing

  it up and

  I have found that I don't you know

  unlike Casey like Casey you you use

  crazy cool features of the Nast like

  with its built-in apps I use none of

  them in practice like i the the Nass to

  me is just a giant external hard drive

  box you don't even use Plex on it no I I

  use Plex on that Mac Mini actually yeah

  that's the same setup I have on my iMac

  so I don't use Plex on the device but I

  mean I don't really do that much with

  the Synology although I didn't want to

  interrupt John earlier but I was

  surprised that you don't have the

  Synology hosting a VPN for you so you

  can like easily get to any device on

  your network and force all of those

  things to be uploaded you know yes

  analogy is not accessible to the

  Internet because it just it's a peace of

  mind thing like Synology and

  network-attached start like you can't

  reach I can't reach it no one can reach

  it from the internet I feel better that

  way I don't have any access to my home

  network from outside like I have

  anything like you know any kind of like

  dynamic DNS thing or any kind of like

  forwarded screen sharing or VNC I have

  no access to my home network anything I

  want to do that I don't want to access

  when I'm out on the go I have to either

  access it through sync services like

  Dropbox or if I really need something I

  can pull a file off a back plays but

  that's it all right is that good enough

  after sure what was I gonna say one more

  thing about my setup that I was gonna

  say so John I guess your vacation how'd

  your vacation go here's all the stories

  of a disk space my folks

  I mean you know my vacation is like it's

  for the kids and everyone to go to the

  beach and hang out and you know me

  taking care of the dog this time is a

  little bit of added hassle and stress

  and lots of waking up early but I take a

  lot of pictures like it you know I just

  well I brought both cameras cuz you

  gotta have a backups but I just used my

  new Sony camera didn't even use my super

  zoom at all super zoom was just there in

  case I dropped the Sony in the ocean I

  successfully did not drop it in the

  ocean once again I brought a new zoom

  lens for it which is longer zoom but a

  crappier lens but it was cheap then I

  used last time and it was alright I used

  most of the lenses I brought with me

  it's a lot took lots of pictures got

  some good ones but that's a lot of my

  beautification series I take a lot of

  pictures and then I edit them and mess

  with them and post a couple Instagram

  in general I don't post pictures of like

  pictures of my relatives who don't want

  to be featured on my Instagram and

  really don't post most pictures of my

  family alone now that my kids are older

  I post a few pictures of them here and

  there but yeah this is my the heaviest

  photography time of the year most if you

  look at when the most pictures taken by

  far it's these one or two weeks that I'm

  long I will come home from the ocean one

  day and I'll have 1600 pictures

  obviously I'm not keeping all posts I'm

  deleting a lot of them but that's what

  it looks like secret to good photography

  as far as I've been able to determine so

  far take a huge number of pictures and

  then delete most of them yeah the secret

  to give a target for you is lots of bad

  photography yeah so I'm definitely doing

  that what else that lens wise yeah I

  still don't have a really good zoom that

  I like because good zooms are really

  expensive and really heavy and it's like

  I'm just resigned to the fact that I

  will you know the smaller and you know

  my my 50 millimeter prime is still my

  favorite lens but that's not gonna cut

  it at the ocean and so as you as I get

  more flexible the image quality goes

  down and the size and weight go up and

  I've mostly accepted that but I'm still

  it's a pretty happy with my camera got a

  lot of good shots out of it and like I

  said didn't drop it in the ocean so

  that's key yeah I mean they're basically

  there is no good zoom like there every

  zoom is is a giant compromise and at

  least one factor either you're

  compromising image quality severely in

  order to get something reasonably sized

  and reasonably inexpensive or you are

  having really great image quality but

  then the thing is massive and probably a

  pretty small zoom range and probably

  very expensive like it's you can't there

  it's just impossible to make a great

  zoom lens that has a large range and is

  reasonably priced and it's reasonably

  small you just can't do it well in one

  brief dog story so I've been training uh

  to come one called like on you know in

  in adverse conditions when you really

  want it to happen like for example when

  all the other dogs in the Dog Fart run

  to the mud puddle and get covered head

  to toe in you know muddy water right and

  literally changes the colour of the dog

  and you don't want your or do that

  that's the time when you want to and

  every dog wants to go to the nub bottle

  they all start hitting there and all the

  orders like no that's when you need the

  come one called thing to actually work

  I call my dad today I used that was it

  today today yesterday exactly that

  happened you know I told her to come she

  came I was exciting right

  but I found limits to that on vacation

  because she was out in the backyard and

  we let her loose for a little bit and

  she's wandering around usually where she

  does the Sun rabbit turds and eat them

  because they're delicious

  well this time okay but this time she

  found a dead bird and I didn't know what

  she had found I started getting into

  something and I called her to come over

  and she comes running towards me she

  gets about three inches from my hand or

  I'm about to like grab her collar and I

  see the wing of the dead birds think I'm

  a small bird this is a pretty

  significant bird that's in her mouth

  that's like you know and she gets close

  to me and she sees that I'm gonna reach

  for the collar and she's like I'm out

  turns the other direction runs away as

  fast as she can I run after his front

  yard like I run after her I eventually

  catch up with her she as far as I can

  tell swallowed that bird whole like just

  you know dig the thing out of her mouth

  like so many things that I dig out of my

  dog's mouth that I don't want her to

  have she just you know like full like

  Python lizard just slurp down like whole

  dead bird beak feathers everything

  that's dogs for you so she will come

  when called when all the other dogs are

  running to the mud puddle but she gets

  dead bird just like I have made the

  mental calculation and whatever treat

  you're going to give me for coming when

  called does not match this dead bird so

  dead bird wins