Top Four

Top Four 5: Podcasts


  all right have my top 4 list and I have

  8 items on it oh I have a shortlist of 1

  2 3 4 17 items on my short list but I

  only have four of my top four we're

  gonna be talking about our favorite

  podcasts and because many many many of

  our friends and friends do podcasts that

  we're going to stay positive this

  episode and we promise not to poop on

  anybody's parade I would like to propose

  a slight modification and this is this

  is kind of how top 4 always is but I

  just want to codify it for this one in

  particular I'd like to say these is this

  is not our top 4 podcasts period yes I

  would say this is our top 4 podcasts

  right now that's I totally wanted to say

  that too yeah because I mean and it's it

  I think that that's a theme throughout

  our entire show is that our top four

  things in general our top 4 how we feel

  right now I mean if we watch different

  TV shows next week and we fall in love

  with something it could totally jump the

  list right like I mean that's how I feel

  anyway yeah right now listening to all

  these podcasts we are right now thinking

  about it and our what our top four would

  be in our current listening moods

  exactly like for instance like one of my

  favorites you look nice today which is a

  long term favorite but they've basically

  not been making new episodes for like

  three years or something like they've

  had one or two here and there but

  they've basically not been making the

  episodes for a while so I would consider

  that extremely inactive and therefore I

  don't listen to it much because they're

  not making new episodes so I'm not sure

  I can have that on my list because

  unless you think it's so good that it

  transcends its dormancy I guess you

  would say because if you think it's good

  enough to make the list even though

  there are no new episodes as a whole

  like as of entity it could possibly jump

  the list into even current listen to

  podcasts of B of being preferred maybe

  but I don't know like to me like my

  enjoyment of podcast is very much in the


  so one that doesn't have new episodes

  for so long and and it might be dormant

  forever you never really quite know I I

  can't enjoy that as much so I actually

  if I was if I had to do like best

  podcasts ever I would probably put you

  look nice today somewhere in the top

  four but as of now it's I don't think

  it's in my top four because it is not

  active and I haven't enjoyed it for so

  long Steve I have such great memories of

  like listening to it at my old job

  sitting there stitching costumes

  listening and laughing to myself and

  like I don't know I just and getting to

  know the guys like when we you know

  we're meeting them and for the first

  time and hanging out and South by

  Southwest and I don't know just if it

  feels like an old friend like they are

  you know like I can't and that's the

  thing a lot of a lot of the podcasts we

  listen to especially because of your

  career a lot of the podcasts we're

  listening to now our friends talking so

  I guess I have a little bit of a bias

  edge on preferring certain podcasts over

  others because I just like hearing

  conversations amongst our friends it

  gets to be very frustrated that I can't

  get involved but it it I don't know it's

  a little bit more personal because we've

  had conversations with these people

  before and I want to have conversations

  again and hearing them in our house is

  like you get to keep up to date on

  friends that don't live nearby and you

  don't have to make stupid phone calls

  because phone calls are the worst agreed

  on that I composed a list of all the

  podcasts that I would potentially put on

  my list and that like iix true in joy

  over others because we do listen to a

  lot so super-sorry if you don't hear

  your podcasts on this list I feel so bad

  okay just the tip 99% invisible you look

  nice today undisclosed Planet Money

  serial roderick on the line hello

  internet startup robot or not word nerds

  cortex reconcilable differences bonanza

  even though I've only heard one episode

  I want to talk about that yeah I have

  lol written in parentheses right next to

  it yep This American Life reply all and

  mystery show

  a big list is a big list and none of a

  lot of them don't even make it close to

  the top four but for me I really enjoy

  all of those and like I said it's not

  even near all the podcasts I listen to

  we listen to so many more but those are

  the ones that I think I would want to

  like put on in the car something when

  listening with somebody else and be like

  oh you would be interested in hearing

  this show for reasons either that it's

  exceptionally funny or it is interesting

  and thought-provoking or it's just the

  barrier to entry is something that's

  really easy yeah that's fair yeah I

  mostly agree with those kind of things I

  ranked mine more personally like what I

  enjoy even if you would not enjoy them

  as you probably put more tech shows and

  stuff on so I was hoping to leave those

  up to you yeah so so for me I mean I'm

  just gonna start the bottom and work my

  way up do you have a shortlist or hire

  losers just eight so that's pretty short

  okay so do your whole shortlist don't

  don't do right don't rank of just just

  random order like put them in the bag

  and shake them up and read them off oh

  no they don't know I don't know too much

  pressure all right so I'm gonna start so

  my number eight of my top eight my

  number eight on our top four list is you

  look nice today cause if it was still

  active like on a regular schedule I

  would probably retire I probably be

  getting more enjoyment out of it but

  because this is my top four podcasts

  right now I I'm not getting enough you

  look nice today to have it go further up

  on the list see I think it actually

  makes my list I don't know I've been

  flip-flopping it around I think it might

  make my list and if it's not on the list

  it's like hovering at number five just

  because I really like it I feel like I

  could listen to it again and it would

  feel just as funny as it did the first

  time you know it's not it's not very I

  don't know it just it's like a little

  comedy show so yeah I will say like when

  I'm in my in a couple of my overcast

  test accounts that I test the the app

  with I always subscribe do you look nice

  today because it is I don't mind hearing

  them again like and I'm gonna hear

  little bits and

  as I test various functionality of the

  app so I don't mind hearing them again

  they're they're relatively short and

  they they are a good test and a few few

  attributes that it has like you know

  it's because I think it's mostly mono

  and stuff like that like so I always add

  those so I end up hearing bits and

  pieces of you look nice today pretty

  often but I haven't actually sat down

  and listened to entire episodes of it

  for years see now you're making me

  question if I want to have it on my list

  taking up a spot well you don't have to

  decide yet you can wait till we get

  closer to the end but but yeah so so I

  do hear it a lot and the Parts I hear

  you're right they are evergreen and they

  it is really funny still but I really

  haven't gone back and listened to them

  like at length in years and so I I don't

  know because there's so much more to

  listen to now right that's the problem

  there's nothing to listen to and not

  saying that that's why it was good it

  was good without it would still be good

  even if it had tons of competition but

  now there's so much to listen to

  thinking about going back and listening

  to a retired podcast it just doesn't

  seem that productive well and and it's

  it's mostly just like it never enters

  your mind because there is there's

  always something there's always a new

  episode of one of your current active

  podcasts ready to play in your podcast

  but I would always recommend you look

  nice today to someone who's getting into

  podcasts oh absolutely and for me like

  it was for me it was one of my biggest

  professional inspirations and influences

  like the way I edit I try to edit the

  way they did even though I'm probably

  not really doing you know the to the to

  the degree that which they did it but

  like the way I edit and produce ATP I I

  think I'm very heavily inspired by you

  look nice today and I and they I mean

  the ground they broke was incredible and

  like when we see them do little live

  shows here and there still today like

  the one that they did at xoxo they still

  got it they're still really good and and

  I really hope to see more from them but

  and that's live too so you don't even

  get the benefit of editing out some of

  the slow bits you know that you that

  happen when you're talking to somebody

  on a podcast and they are still very

  good they had a whole audience laughing

  yeah that was that was solid so anyway

  so that's that's my number eight okay my

  number seven

  he's 99% invisible oh that's only number

  seven for you it this is you know how I

  rank things this is this is a loose

  ranking this is like what I felt like

  two hours ago when I wrote this ranking

  down did you really just write this two

  hours ago we've been talking about doing

  this for like four weeks now at least we

  almost did it when we did the reality

  show yep yep

  Marco okay anyway 99% invisible is

  definitely in my top four yeah it's it's

  very very good I love that show I

  recommend it to a ton of people I think

  it is so informative and interesting it

  it's if for anyone who hasn't heard 99%

  invisible you're crazy

  but so you should go here and it's about

  all the little things in life that are

  basically something you wouldn't know

  about but is very interesting little

  fact whether it's about history it's an

  information about a city a person

  architecture like it's it it spans the

  wide range of just knowledge and

  interesting things and it focuses on one

  small particular thing and illuminates

  it for the audience and it's hosted by

  Roe and Mars right mm-hm and he has a

  fantastic voice yeah like that voice and

  I wish you would mix with a little bit

  less bass makes it very hard to hear in

  the car yeah that's true it is that was

  a good test for voice booth because I

  have to like try to make room in Mars

  audible in a car which is very difficult

  and that's usually where we're listening

  to 99% of business yeah I know that's

  the problem and it's also a great show

  to have on if you have you know a mixed

  company I guess of passengers where

  you're not gonna be worried about any

  swear words or anything that's gonna

  offend anybody or turning one off or be

  a certain type of humor that someone's

  not going to get or be too specific of a

  topic that someone wouldn't find it into

  roaring to most people yeah that most of

  my shows are tech shows and like you

  know like if I was making a list of top

  four podcasts to play around other

  people I think that would be possibly

  number one if it would certainly be

  higher up on my list the number seven

  but because this is you know the list of

  what I even what my

  my favorite right now for me and most of

  my listening I do alone then you know

  it's not quite up there simply because

  I'm much more into tech shows that being

  said though like there's this whole this

  massive category of most most podcast

  listening I think that occurs is these

  like but often public radio shows but

  shows that are like kind of general

  interests like here's a nifty

  interesting thing and it's kind of a

  general audience thing it's not really

  about any one subject it's not really

  narrowly defined to one industry it

  doesn't go very deep into the industry

  but it's like here's an interesting

  story that is a very big category in

  podcasting and for good reason but I

  don't usually get that much into those

  because I have so many tech shows that I

  enjoy that are that are shows by our

  friends that I would like I'd rather

  hear those so I don't really get a lot

  of those like general interest shows and

  I see the 90 percent invisible is one of

  those and it's one of the best ones and

  that's why I listen to it so much

  whereas I don't even listen to most

  other like kind of turns out this is

  interesting shows yeah I mean I listen

  and I know you got me into 99% invisible

  I listen to I really enjoy when we do

  listen to it and like you I totally

  listen to our friend tech shows but

  honestly I don't get much out of it I

  mean I get a little bit out of it I kind

  of feel like I'm keeping up to date in

  your world and can know what's kind of

  going on which is slowly becoming my

  world I guess - the programming

  nerdiness but but yeah I just I would

  honestly rather listen to 99% invisible

  which we save to listen to together in

  the car then a tech news show because I

  just it's not that's not me so maybe

  someday I know but don't do a lot of

  tech I know I listen to a TV every week

  but I'm sorry hon I can't say it's a

  favorite I listen to it because it's my

  John and Casey right you know and I know

  you're gonna pick new trilogy number one

  yes neutral is my number one oh sorry

  didn't make up a shortlist not even in

  the top 17 no and I mean I listened to a

  whole bunch of video game podcasts here

  and there but again I don't listen to

  them consistently because I just I don't

  have the time to focus on

  as much as I would want to I think if

  you know I wasn't taking care of a kid

  all day I would listen to much more but

  a lot of the news shows I and then once

  I it it kind of passes me by you know

  and I'm like well that's kind of

  outdated I can't listen to that anymore

  yeah the new shows have a pretty short

  half-life like if you don't listen to a

  new show within about two weeks of it

  airing you're pretty much and that's a

  lot of the videogame ones too it's like

  all about what's coming out now what's

  new and what's hot and you know what's

  and so it's not something I can really

  get into as often as I would actually

  want to yeah that makes sense

  speaking of techie shows all right my

  number six right now that I feel like as

  of two hours ago my number six is cortex

  which is from our friends at relay FM

  from featuring Mike curly and CGP grey

  that's not so much of a tech show though

  I have it on my short list

  it is techie I wouldn't say it's a tech

  you mentioned technology sometimes it's

  well but it's more about like living

  life with technology I mean but like who

  doesn't do that yeah I mean it's it's a

  techie show the way like a Corolla S is

  a sporty car it's like it's not a tech

  show it's into a Corolla

  no I'm saying like it's not a tech show

  it's a techie show just like it's like

  chocolate versus chocolatey food it's

  food items you know it's like there's a

  difference there go ahead keep making

  more analogies yeah this is great so

  anyway so cortex and what I like about

  it I'm a huge fan of both CGP grey and

  I'm Michael Hurley and they they are

  they're both so good and and they work

  really well together there and it is it

  goes into a lot of depth into techy

  topics that that I enjoy while also

  having you know these two people I like

  a lot so it is also one of my favorite

  shows I don't have it on the list

  because I have more things on the list

  but so I'm your top 17 no well it could

  be in the top five okay

  I mean I was I make sure I keep up to

  date with that show I like that show a

  lot also I really like CGP grey voice a


  cut that out of you what yeah I know I

  think you have to live with the

  awkwardness I'm leaving yeah anyway so

  so my number five I love you mark my

  number five

  in a similar vein of people I like

  talking about tech things although this

  is more technical is upgrade featuring

  Jason Snell and I Michael Hurley

  on this really FM network yeah I see I

  don't listen to that sorry guys

  well it's it's really a lot more

  technical than I like all those guys but

  all two of them yeah yeah so upgrade

  with Jason snow and Mike early it is

  really good like they it just kind of

  came out of the blue like you know

  whenever they started I don't know a

  year ago roughly I had no idea what to

  think of it I thought well you know they

  already have like shows talking about

  Apple and we have a joking about Apple

  you know I guess I'll listen to one more

  and it very quickly became one of my

  favorites it's incredibly good and it

  like if you listen to only a very small

  number of techie shows about Apple I

  would definitely include upgrade in that

  list it is incredibly smart incredibly

  good it is really really up there I

  probably wouldn't fall asleep to it in

  the car Wow no no there are certain like

  really really tech heavy shows that you

  put on in the car when I'm like dozing

  off and you're like up time to stop

  listening to like you know the ones that

  we save for each other and oh yeah

  listening to the text shows and you turn

  on something and it's just so dry

  technical like they're great shows and

  you really like them but for me it just

  it goes too deep right developer shows

  yeah it go they go too deep and that's

  all I'm saying is that that's why I doze

  off because the topic just doesn't grab

  me as a non programming person oh yeah

  yeah like I I will save actual

  programming shows like core intuition

  and release notes I'll save those for

  when you are not with me or asleep and I

  know that you know you are not developer

  and they will be a lot less interesting

  to you although freakishly that's how

  you got me into

  whole bunch of shows where you started

  listening to them because you thought I

  was dozing off and it stopped me from

  dozing off and I started listening yeah

  that's how you got into hypercritical

  yep yep I did get into hypercritical

  that way and I really really want to

  have enough time to go through and

  listen to all those again but again it's

  one of those podcasts that are it's not

  making new ones so I'm less inclined to

  catch up yeah you know because I know

  it's gonna be there and it's not gaining

  on me that I need to feel like I need to

  get ahead of it you know what I did you

  understand so if there's a current

  podcast that I really like that I hadn't

  heard all the episodes to which we I'm

  sure will come up and talk about because

  it's on my list I want to listen to that

  first before going back to the dormant

  shows yeah yeah I agree but I mean

  hypercritical if you're gonna go back

  and listen that is one that has

  substantial value gamecontroller episode

  no good there are so many that were so

  good I mean almost every episode I would

  say is worth hearing again but again it

  is on my list because it's not an active

  podcast like of mine you know and it's

  not you know I really like John like I

  like him as a person that we know and a

  lot of times that brings me closer to a

  podcast that I wouldn't normally

  attached to as as quickly but I mean

  John's just amazing beyond cast though

  yeah I mean that's that's one of the

  reasons why hypercritical worked so well

  is because John is just so interesting

  and and so likable like it's and he's

  he's so unlike you know most people if

  you put those people in that role it

  wouldn't have been nearly as interesting

  but he articulates things so well and

  identifies so much about what makes

  something good or bad and can express it

  so well that he really is a completely

  different class than most people in

  doing those things ever reference he's

  exactly like that in real life like

  exact you know you should I heard him

  critiquing his birthday cake one year

  that was amazing except he melts when

  you give them a baby or a dog yes all

  right so my my number four riser right

  now as

  two hours ago whenever this list is the

  talk show with John Gruber excellent

  choice yeah I I think you know again

  it's among the tech shows that I listen

  to it is really really up there in fact

  it is I think it's the highest ranked

  show on my list that I consider like a

  tech show really I I really liked when

  they did the well back when it was on

  five by five when they did the bond

  series I was very into it then that was

  great yeah it was really great we

  definitely we watched along with it and

  that was really fun but nowadays I catch

  it here and there when you're playing it

  in the kitchen but uh I I don't listen

  to it as much sorry John but I have

  another group or a podcast on my list

  that's very close in the top four I'm

  not sure if it's in the top four it

  might be number five it's not but my my

  ranking is just bobbing around all over

  the place right now but just the tip Amy

  Jane very good Paul Cabasa yeah it's a

  very good show yes I hear they're

  starting a new season soon excellent you

  know it's mostly about their totally

  strange happenings in their life which

  are I can't believe these things happen

  to people and we know that they do

  because we've been there when it happens

  sometimes and it's they're just too

  outrageous funny personable people that

  you just kind of want to listen to crazy

  things they get into what makes the tip

  good is that the they're there they're

  both individually really funny mm-hmm

  and they're funny together and they're

  friends and you can tell their friends

  you can tell they know each other very

  well and they you can tell they like

  hanging around biessing and being funny

  together a lot and and that that

  chemistry really comes through and it is

  just really funny and it yeah that's

  like they can they can nitpick

  the littlest tiniest things almost like

  in like a Seinfeld II kind of way but

  more like more modern and funnier like

  it like the way they like the ridiculous

  situations that happen to them and the

  way they relate that later on or like

  you know the way they interpret it at

  the time is just always like a certain

  lens of just like

  critical dry funniness perfect yep

  exactly I really enjoy the show and it's

  a quick show - yeah exactly them what

  like a half-hour

  yeah and they and they don't make

  episodes every week they do like these

  like seasonal batches so they'll do like

  you know ten a year or something so it's

  it's it's pretty easy to get into pretty

  easy to listen to not a big like time

  cost and and very they're very dense

  episodes yeah I like that a lot

  it depends on see that's it depends on

  where you look nice today falls based on

  where just the tip Falls interested s if

  she said well alright my number three is

  again right now as I feel like it two

  hours ago is Roderick on the line

  awesome yeah I so I've been listening to

  Roderick on the line since the beginning

  it has been for most of its life that

  has been my shower podcast where I we

  have a big Bluetooth speaker on a shelf

  next to the shower so I can blast

  podcast and hear them clearly in the

  shower my shower podcast is ATP and

  analog nice good choices sorry dudes if

  that makes this awkward well so like I

  love rock on the line it is it so it's

  it's John Roderick and Merlin Mann just

  talking basically and and what initially

  got me hooked is that it puts Merlin in

  the host role which on almost every

  other show Merlin does he's not in that

  host role and it turns out he's really

  good at it and it's interesting to hear

  that other side of him you know and and

  so that got me and then of course John

  Roderick is like kind of what's but seal

  the deal and kept me there and kept me

  interested for so long because he is

  John Roderick is just this infinite

  depth of interesting insights

  interesting stories and and just like a

  time capsule I don't know like I feel

  like if you just dug around in the dirt

  you found like a little plaque you know

  that used to be quite shiny and amazing

  and like you dusted it off and it

  actually is now more amazing of a plaque

  and you

  pull it out on the ground and it's this

  like weathered amazing stunning

  container of a life and you open it up

  and it just has these and these little

  objects and trinkets and I don't know it

  just that's what he feels like and

  Merlin is just opening up this time

  capsule of Roderick and he's telling

  about his life and things that have

  happened to him and it's like I can't

  even believe that this is one person but

  this is all we have so many videos of

  Adam as an infant with Roderick on the

  line playing in the background of the

  videos right because I was like taking a

  shower or something yeah and I was

  hanging out you know like doing the

  nursing business and and our Adams room

  is right across from the bathroom

  so yeah Adam has also heard a lot of

  John Roderick yeah the one I remember

  most is when they're talking about

  stress bumps which is really awkward

  because we're taking a video of our

  little baby and they're talking about

  like stress bumps on people yeah awkward

  but yeah that's a cute video thank you

  and you know that that's another show

  where John and Merlin have known each

  other for a long time and you can tell

  and it comes through and they play off

  each other very well

  Merlin like you know John if you let

  John talk he'll go on forever Merlin

  knows like how like how to lead the

  conversation how to bracket it where to

  jump in where not to jump in he's very

  very good at that yeah they did the

  dynamic between them is just amazing and

  it makes the podcast really great yeah

  and and so in you know to have to have

  that amount of depth and storytelling

  and and just like deep references in in

  a relatively short show it's pretty

  impressive like the show is usually

  around an hour see that's where I

  disagree with you it is not a short show

  that's why I can't keep up it's too long

  I guess you fell behind right I fell

  behind at one point and now I'm my my

  debt of Roderick on the line is so great

  like I catch it when you're in the

  shower and you tell me when there's like

  a particular episode that I really need

  to listen to and I do

  and I love every time I listen to it but

  I just can't keep up which is really sad

  because I want to keep up yeah you know

  that's the reality of podcasts like

  there's always gonna be a lot of great

  podcasts out there and you don't always

  gonna have time for all of them you know

  and that that's why I like you know you

  gotta you gotta pick and choose like I

  as I said earlier like I don't really

  listen to most of the popular public

  radio shows because I just I would

  rather hear these other things by my

  friends and by tech people and stuff

  like there's very few of those

  mass-market shows that I actually want

  to listen to over the other things that

  I like yeah yeah I can't let's do this

  American life anymore I mean I love it

  and I want to listen to it but it just

  it ends up not making the cut yeah I

  mean I haven't listened to this American

  life in years you know like we used to

  listen to that in the car a lot but now

  we've have other things that we like

  better that are you know more specific

  to us or by our friends or whatever

  mm-hmm and I don't I don't have a bad

  thing I mean podcasting like this is one

  of the strengths of podcasting is that

  you have this wonderful specialization

  and if you want to hear podcasts about

  you know to pen enthusiasts discussing

  pens I just listen to it yeah and I was

  super excited they were talking about

  adult coloring because I totally have an

  adult coloring book that I have because

  I'm sick of coloring and Adams dumb

  coloring books Wow I just need a little

  more challenge anyway it is pretty great

  but again and you know so I what are the

  the podcasts I keep up with like

  regularly oh I don't want to list it yet

  because it might give away my number one

  okay almost done all right my number two

  right now as of two hours ago

  my number two podcast is reconcilable

  differences oh that's my cooking podcast

  uh yeah that's a great

  I always listen to that one when I'm

  cooking so it's a little bit too dense

  for me like that's that's one where so

  this very little differences it's

  another show here in relay FM and it is

  it features John siracusa and Merlin

  Mann and so what I like about this shows

  are first of all John and Merlin are Bo

  as we know we've talked to them already

  so far they're both incredibly good

  podcasters they're both incredibly

  interesting and one thing I like about

  it is that they're both in their 40s and

  I'm 33 and they're both also very smart

  and very wise even for their age like it

  isn't they're not just Martin wise

  because they're in their 40s they're

  smart and wise in general and they

  happen to have you know 10 to 15

  whatever you know more years of life

  experience than I do and so I listen to

  that show that's a very dense show and

  like I don't listen to a ball cooking

  because I need to pay closer attention

  to it see that's when I have a chance to

  actually pay attention to a podcast is

  when I'm cooking and you're keeping Adam

  away from me like I can actually be in

  the kitchen by myself just sauteing some

  vegetables listening to John him early

  he's very easy for you like compared

  like you I have to put a lot more

  thought into it because I mess up too

  much if I don't but you know you were

  much better than that cooking that I am

  yeah I don't really focus that much on

  right you don't mean to so anyway so I I

  enjoy the show because you know it's

  it's these two guys who I respect a lot

  and and they they have never as far as I

  know they've never regularly done

  another podcast together like I've heard

  both of them separately on lots of

  things but I've never heard the man

  incomparable episodes together well yeah

  one or two here and there but not like

  on a regular basis and in there those

  are big episodes with a lot of other

  people to use though right and you know

  and both that you know John and Merlyn

  have so much to say that you know they

  there's not room for anyone else you

  know on that show and to get a

  meaningful amount of them at the same

  time certainly so I like the show and

  and it is so it is the you know these

  two friends of mine who are great on

  podcast together who are also incredibly

  wise and it's them talking about their

  lives and their philosophies about life

  and their experiences in life so it's

  it's a amazing combination of like very

  high value content for me like very high

  very dense very it's it's full of wisdom

  and philosophy

  from from these guys who who I you know

  I I I stand to gain a lot from their

  wisdom I think like there's a lot that

  they have learned in life that I haven't


  yet and or that or things they do or

  ways they look at things that I would

  like to be better at that I would like

  to pick up or even the way they've

  analyzed their own pass to yeah when

  they bring that up I think that that's a

  very self-aware and it's really I don't

  know it's just it makes you think it

  makes you think about yourself and the

  way you perceive things and I just and

  their banter is really good together and

  they lead each other really well and

  exactly and that's this that's the show

  that I rewind the most of all shows like

  if I'm you know walking walking hops or

  doing something else if I like kind of

  zone out for a second or don't pay

  attention for a second because it like

  something happens you know what I'm

  walking I got I pay attention to across

  the street or whatever like I will

  rewind to here again what I just didn't

  pay much attention to I also don't mind

  if I'm playing it you're like no no keep

  it on I'll hear this part again yeah I

  can re listen to it because again it is

  so dense oftentimes I will I will get

  more value out of listen to it a second

  time and so that that one I'm I'm very

  happy they're continuing to do it now

  and and it is really really up there for

  me alright so what's next you that was

  your number two where's the number two

  oh wait then you're missing one that I

  thought we were going to be talking

  about a lot okay keep going good well my

  number one hello Internet that's my

  number one really it's not just because

  you like crazy voice a little bit no

  it's more than that I can go beyond my

  yeah anyway so I feel so awkward right

  now what you want me to save you save me

  okay so the reason so hello Internet is

  my number one right now and and it's

  been it's been my number one for a

  little while and what I like about hello


  is that so this is CGP grey and Brady

  Haran to people who are mostly known I

  believe for their YouTube stuff although

  they're kind of taking the podcast world

  by storm here because hello Internet is

  is more popular than almost every show

  I've talked about here and and it is as

  they describe it it

  is the two dudes talking podcast format

  books many of you show yeah actually all

  of your like top ones talking yeah I

  know dudes talking can you what can I

  say I like what you like yeah so but you

  got me into this we were listening I

  remember the first episode that I got

  into it with was the flags they were

  talking about flag design and I'm like

  what the hell is this these do people

  just talking on and on and on about

  flags I was like really I think you

  might have put it on because you thought

  I was falling asleep and I and I ended

  up really really liking it and it wasn't

  until a couple months later that I got

  into it even more and yeah it's just the

  two of them have such a great chemistry

  together I love it's when they describe

  themselves it's you know the robot in

  the caveman which i think is pretty

  extreme but it's it's pretty funny

  because they just you know one is one

  way ones the other way and the way they

  talk to each other and they play off

  each other it's it's just fantastic it's

  fantastic if you have I don't even know

  how to describe how great it is yeah you

  could get keep going no I mean that's

  that's exactly how I feel about it it's

  it is the two dudes talking format and

  it is talking you know occasionally

  about tech but you know kind of also

  about YouTube also about life you know

  also about ships and it's just about

  whatever sit in which is what yeah great

  and I love when Brady derails everything

  and gray I could just hear him rolling

  his eyes and shaking his head and it's

  just so funny it's so funny with Brady

  and all of his corners now it's and it

  just it seems to have escalated so I

  went back I just started listening to

  the first few episodes just this past

  weekend and it's amazing how they stand

  up they don't it doesn't feel like it

  was a podcast that grew into itself

  because it was so good right from the

  first episode I I thought I was gonna go

  back and feel like oh this is gonna feel

  really kind of like green and then they

  were going to evolve into the podcast

  that they are today and they did a

  little bit of that you know it's

  definitely expanded and it started off

  it was supposed to just be 10 episodes

  and it expanded and it just it was so

  good from the beginning there was even

  this crazy episode I was just telling

  mark about um about ad blockers that was

  so crazy relevant to what was happening

  like two weeks ago so but that was put

  out over a year ago and what they go

  back and listen to it again you have to

  because it was like they were ice you

  would have guessed that they recorded

  that after the whole hoopla debacle yeah

  I mean like what I like about it is like

  they these two characters and you know I

  believe they're genuine I don't feel

  like playing characters like these these

  two people are amazing character there's

  no way you can make up all the crazy

  stuff that they talk about and have that

  there's the depth to both of them that

  they've revealed in the show and their

  own I guess neuroses about things and

  the way they look at life you know one

  is he says he's not a minimalist but

  whatever gray one's a minimalist one

  loves collecting trinkets and things and

  having a house full of old stuff and

  looking at thing and it's just the the

  way they're so different but yet they

  come together and they're so similar

  right and Lee and you know this is like

  you know that that is not an original

  formula of like these two different

  people kind of yeah I mean yeah

  obviously this has been done before in

  media but this is a really really good

  and totally organic version of that and

  like they really they know how to push

  each other's buttons so well too and and

  they're also yeah and they're also

  friends and you can tell and and so you

  know it just comes together to be not an

  original format but an incredibly

  incredibly good implementation of that

  of those pieces that have been done

  before you know but these two people who

  I they're just so perfect to do this

  together you know and it just it comes

  together so well that you can listen to

  them talk about anything and we do he

  wasn't talking about anything and it's

  good new episodes of hello hello

  internet are definitely my don't disturb

  while listening to podcasts like I will

  rewind and hear stuff

  I don't want to miss a second of it

  because I like it so much

  yeah I'm the same way like I don't I

  won't zone out during that one I'll save

  it for like times and I can listen more

  you know and not miss things every once

  in a while we can listen together and

  that's pretty fun yeah yeah that's good

  but it's not often we would get so

  backlogged if we had to wait to listen

  together yeah yeah all right that's my

  my top four my top eight actually so

  well okay let's go to you yeah so hello

  internets my first one number one there

  was no doubt about that number two three

  and four I'm waffling Oh waffling so

  yeah I have okay so my two three and

  four and I guess number five because

  they're all I'm wobbling okay I have you

  look nice today undisclosed 99%

  invisible and just the tip as my top

  ones under hello Internet and I feel

  like any of them could go anywhere

  because depending on the episode except

  for you look nice today which is retired

  which is why it's kind of like

  flip-flopping in between spots here for

  me and also just the tip doesn't come

  out very often so that one's also hard

  to pin down I guess in which number I

  would prefer it at but undisclosed is a

  podcast that we need to talk about yeah


  so undisclosed is a podcast that started

  after serial and if you haven't heard of

  Syria living under a rock you at least

  have to have heard of it but we only

  listen to it a couple months ago we

  started listening yeah we listen to it

  after it ended right and I because I was

  kind of on a podcasting low right at a

  certain I'm like you know I'm gonna

  listen to serial I have some time so I

  started listening and about like two

  episodes in I stopped and I said Marco

  we have to listen to this together

  because you would be really really into

  it and he was all new and so I

  eventually got him to listen to it and

  he got into it you got into it right oh

  I was hooked immediately yeah you were

  totally hooked and because I would stop

  and I would listen to the first few

  episodes and the first episode like oh

  my gosh this happened and I would

  explain the whole thing and tell him all

  this stuff that this crazy thing was

  happening to this poor guy

  we were and then the next episode would

  happen I would spend all this time

  talking to him about what happened on

  cereal and so he's like finally I'm like

  you have to just listen to it because

  you're listening to me tell you all

  about it and we got very very into it we

  debated back and forth whether he was

  guilty or innocent and I think you were

  much more on the I don't know side and I

  was more on the innocent side yeah at

  the end of cereal of cereal at the end

  of cereal I thought he I was in the

  middle I was like he prob I was leaning

  towards he probably was guilty but that

  they definitely should not have

  convicted him based on the case and

  evidence that were presented mm-hmm so

  next so after a cereal ended it left a

  lot of questions open because the style

  of podcasts that it was it was it's kind

  of like a storytelling podcast it was

  its NPR right it's public radio I don't

  think it's actually a VMP organization

  but if any of you so it was more of like

  the storytelling format and it was very

  edited and they told a great story but

  it wasn't technically perfect and so a

  new podcast came up after cereal called

  undisclosed and undisclosed is run by

  three lawyers one of which knows Adnan

  personally and two others who are

  interested in the case and started

  blogging about it and talking about it

  through sere because of serial

  there are various law professors or

  parts of different projects that help I

  don't know that that helped people rifle

  convictions and and yes everything make

  sure people get to get you know adequate

  defenses stuff like that yeah if you

  want to look up their names we could say

  I don't know but so we started listening

  to this and it's a very technical

  podcast what it has done is it goes into

  depth every single episode

  it focuses on one little tiny part of

  the case and just picks it apart and

  blows it totally open and explains

  everything so if you're ever if you're

  at all interested in

  criminal justice in law in forensics in

  anything to do with crime solving and

  and the actual intricacies of it that

  pertain to real life and not fiction

  this is a fantastic podcast for you and

  I think that that's what we really like

  it's very deep into the law aspect of it

  it's very deep into how the workings of

  the police department were it just it's

  so fascinating how detailed they get and

  how well produced it is in addition to

  that it's not just a whole bunch of

  lawyers talking it has music it has

  transitions and it's it's really just

  beautifully beautifully done and it's

  super super fascinating and all of the

  proceeds I believe two of the podcasts

  go to help

  Adnan's case so the majority of the

  they're all on side of Adnan innocent

  and wanting to or not at least innocent

  but at least saying that he was not

  given a fair trial that he should not

  have been convicted thank you convicted

  based on the evidence that that was

  available at the time and it just goes

  it just adds layer upon layer upon layer

  of frustration of you're like how could

  this actually have happened in our

  criminal justice system and it blows

  open that it happens all the time and

  it's just so interesting and frustrating

  I think of it it's a lot like who we

  really like the wire which we talked

  about on a previous show and this takes

  place like in Baltimore right yeah in

  Baltimore yeah it's late night like in

  1999 like the same time period like the

  same type of cops the same kind of

  Police Department and you're talking

  about them or you're talking about you

  know it it just it it goes into these

  details that you can't help but draw

  parallels with the wire but this is real

  life and it it's just it's scary it's

  scary but it's fascinating and it's it

  makes you feel like you're learning

  something about the world that you need

  to know

  yeah and it's it is you know like as you

  mentioned like it is very well produced

  it is not just like

  you know a lot of times if you have like

  subject matter experts talking about a

  subject from a podcast a lot of times

  those are like recorded like on

  somebody's speakerphone you can barely

  hear it's all echoey and or like podcast

  about people like people who do podcast

  about like oh let's talk about Project

  Runway you know what I mean fans of

  something creating a podcast which is

  what this kind of started out as but

  it's so much more serious than that yeah

  like the production values are just as

  good as any like popular popular public

  radio style show and the content as you

  said like it is so good it is so

  interesting and their professions and

  they're talking to experts and they're

  uncovering things and they know how to

  read through the paperwork and they know

  how to get hold of this paperwork and

  because they all are lawyers with

  degrees and access to all this kind of

  stuff they're not just investigative

  reporters right but they but at the same

  time even though they are all lawyers

  that that that are going into all those

  technical jargon they also explain it

  and so you don't have them accessible

  yeah like we aren't lawyers we wouldn't

  know what half this stuff was but they

  explain it and so like if you are at all

  interested if you were all interested in

  serial and you haven't heard undisclosed

  you have to listen to undisclosed it is

  like because first of all you know what

  they uncover it goes way beyond what

  serial could have done you know just as

  like a brief term done by a journalist

  like these are experts in wrongful

  convictions and evidence problems and

  everything and so they actually went

  through and found a lot of new stuff and

  you know my opinion of the non science

  guilt went from he probably did it but

  shouldn't have been convicted to he

  almost certainly didn't do it like the

  the now like what they have uncovered it

  makes it such that it would have been

  almost impossible for him to do it and

  there's all this evidence of so many

  other problems and so many other

  plausible theories of what happened that

  are actually supported by evidence and

  it's really I mean it's what happened

  here was I mean you know we can't say

  definitely but what happened here was mo

  most probably severe injustice and

  wrongful conviction yeah after the guys

  in the prison for 15

  now but it's a type of it's a type of

  podcast that we keep pausing it and

  being like oh my gosh did you just hear

  that can you believe that let's target

  like you that it's the type of podcast

  that you pause and you talk about it

  with whoever you're listening to and if

  you're not listening to it with somebody

  you have to pause it and be like oh my

  gosh that just has like even if you're

  by yourself you need a minute it would

  be like that was crazy like you just

  want to call up your friend be like you

  won't believe what I just listened to

  and even if it's just it's just one of

  the it is it just brings out so much I

  guess adrenaline while you're listening

  to I don't know what little and anger at

  the system I mean because a lot you know

  in a lot of a lot of what they're

  uncovering it's it's suggesting very

  strongly evidence not only of people

  being incompetent but if people like

  actively presenting a case they knew to

  be false or impossible but it's just

  like actual misconduct happening here

  and even when they're explaining stuff

  to you like they're not dumbing anything

  down you know they are they're just

  saying it in clear concise you know

  understandable terms that just make it

  so incredibly accessible I really really

  love this podcast I can't wait for every

  new episode to come out and we listen to

  we save it for each other and listen to

  it together yeah I mean like when it

  when it for when we first finished

  serial and a few weeks later or whatever

  we found this but you find this podcast

  cuz I wanted to know more because it was

  we I finished serial almost a year after

  it aired and so I was like there has to

  be something more about this case so I

  started looking it up right and so when

  you found this pot like you described to

  me as a bunch of lawyers talking more

  about that case and that sounds so dull

  it sounds so boring it like if you if

  you if that's what you're thinking this

  will be trust me it is way more

  interesting than it sounds yeah and they

  and their most recent episode too is

  super fascinating they are actually

  talking to a whole bunch of of inmates

  in prison in a prison who have listened

  to cereal and undisclosed and discussing

  with them what they think about it and

  it is really eye-opening and it totally

  changes your mind about who an inmate

  would be and what they would sound like

  and what they

  would think it's it's really great

  they're having some trouble getting some

  release information in order to get the

  audio from these interviews from from

  these guys that are incarcerated but

  half of the episode has has already

  aired and it's really very interesting

  so it's taking a little bit of a turn it

  it it's evolving the podcast is evolving

  but it's still staying on track it's

  real good all right so all right so okay

  I'm putting it down because undisclosed

  it's definitely going up to number two

  because I did we just talked tons about

  it and it made me remember how much I

  really really liked it so because we're

  talking about favorites right now so I

  have hello Internet undisclosed 99%

  invisible and then you look nice today

  top four top four that we don't talk

  about no I mean is there any other that

  was a good stopping point we need to do

  that I can sing the ATP song I usually

  lip-sync it while I'm doing my hair in

  the mirror my makeup do you want to

  write well now this show is over there's

  no need to damn it it was accidental

  accidental accidental accidental John

  didn't do any research Marco and Kasey

  wouldn't let him cuz it was accidental

  accidental accidental accidental and you

  can find the show notes at ATP fm and if

  you're into Twitter you can follow them

  at CAS UIL ISS so that's Casey less ma

  RC o AR M ent Marco Arment SI r AC USA

  siracusa it's accidental they didn't

  mean to it's hard there's one more long

  accidental tech podcast soul

  that's amazing

  so it's pretty good for unprompted on a

  podcast pretty good maybe in my top four