The Incomparable

153: Monkey with a Tinfoil Sandwich


  the incomparable number 153 artists 2013 [TS]

  we're back on the uncomfortable i'm your [TS]

  host Jason snow and tonight we're going [TS]

  to be talking about time travel movies [TS]

  but I have a confession to make [TS]

  what you're listening to is timeline be [TS]

  this podcast we already did the podcast [TS]

  and then we entered a time-travel box [TS]

  traveled back a little more than an hour [TS]

  in time and are now emerging from the [TS]

  box at the beginning of the podcast [TS]

  which i know is very confusing just like [TS]

  some of the movies were going to be [TS]

  talking about tonight among my guests on [TS]

  tonight's show our Lex Friedman who were [TS]

  gonna find out didn't really like primer [TS]

  hi Lex I I really didn't like primer no [TS]

  no that's too bad because we're going to [TS]

  talk about it i'm glad you watched it [TS]

  spoiler alert i watched it twice it's [TS]

  all spoilers we will fire the spoiler [TS]

  horn off at the end of the podcast but [TS]

  yeah we're going to talk about all the [TS]

  movies [TS]

  Tony sindelar is also here hi Tony [TS]

  I you know if somebody ran up to me and [TS]

  shakes me and asked me what year is it [TS]

  i'm just slap them unless they're like [TS]

  filling out a check or something when [TS]

  they get that's that's a good idea if [TS]

  you run into yourself and yourself has [TS]

  gold bars or silver bars all taped to [TS]

  his chest [TS]

  I would ask for a 50-50 split yeah just [TS]

  take the money and run man that's just [TS]

  that's that's how you do this be called [TS]

  being a gentleman I think so [TS]

  david lawrence here hi David [TS]

  hello I'm i'm hoping we didn't get [TS]

  around to talking about Inspector [TS]

  Spacetime Oh Who I think we I think I [TS]

  can guarantee you that there will be no [TS]

  talk about Inspector Spacetime on this [TS]

  episode I just have a feeling it's it's [TS]

  the braider time don't change the [TS]

  timeline David don't alter the time line [TS]

  or we'll have to record this podcast [TS]

  again and nobody wants that [TS]

  don't don't Drive Angry well how we [TS]

  maybe we'll talk about groundhog day [TS]

  know that would be nice if we mentioned [TS]

  that at the end that would be that would [TS]

  be good [TS]

  John siracusa is here hi John if I'm [TS]

  listening to this just a message to [TS]

  myself make sure you get into the box [TS]

  it's imperative that you do that thank [TS]

  you completely thank you [TS]

  and then I know that in this episode [TS]

  you're gonna you're going to talk about [TS]

  all of the things that you absolutely [TS]

  love about twelve Monkeys probably that [TS]

  it's not a time travel movie probably we [TS]

  haven't recorded that part [TS]

  no you know no that's right it's all to [TS]

  come buddy ashley is also here Monty I [TS]

  suspect is going to like primer or [TS]

  primer as much as i do I like time [TS]

  travel movies because they have lots of [TS]

  rules rules are important i love [TS]

  diagrams even if the diagrams aren't [TS]

  exactly right [TS]

  I like favorite part of back to the [TS]

  future when they stopped the movie to [TS]

  show a diagram what happened nothing [TS]

  like a good checkpoint sequence that is [TS]

  it's the best is the best so I don't [TS]

  know where to begin with these three [TS]

  movies that are that the ones that I [TS]

  told you to see I the earliest is 12 [TS]

  monkeys which I just watched again last [TS]

  night and I want to talk about twelve [TS]

  Monkeys looper and and primer intern [TS]

  primer primer there's a whole convoluted [TS]

  you can call it either 1 it's shane [TS]

  carruth director says that it was [TS]

  supposed to be called primer and he got [TS]

  because that's what the word means is a [TS]

  you know an instruction manual basically [TS]

  to teach you how to do something but [TS]

  everybody called primer instead of [TS]

  primer so he gave up so that really [TS]

  caught there it just like primer fine [TS]

  but that's not the word and i do want to [TS]

  talk about time travel in general are [TS]

  these movies these movies have different [TS]

  takes on time mechanics and every time [TS]

  travel movie is different back to the [TS]

  future is you know fade away when you [TS]

  change the timeline kind of thing [TS]

  the reason i wanted us to talk about 12 [TS]

  monkeys is having seen so many time [TS]

  travel movies i really love the fact [TS]

  that 12 monkeys has a really kind of [TS]

  hard definition of time travel which is [TS]

  that there's only one timeline things [TS]

  only are ever what they are [TS]

  everything is inevitable it's kind of [TS]

  really depressing in twelve Monkeys [TS]

  because everything out some point bruce [TS]

  willis just says you're all dead to me [TS]

  already [TS]

  you're all gonna die doesn't matter but [TS]

  i like that 12 monkeys doesn't go in for [TS]

  any of this sort of like wait a second [TS]

  that's a paradox like the doctor who [TS]

  kind of thing where you're like you [TS]

  don't even know anymore it's like it [TS]

  the time paradoxes beat you down until [TS]

  you can't complain [TS]

  anymore and 12 monkeys like no one said [TS]

  the things happens it always happens the [TS]

  first scene of the movie is the last [TS]

  seen the movie and that's what that's [TS]

  what I appreciate about 12 monkeys is I [TS]

  really like its perspective on time [TS]

  travel [TS]

  you thought it was the hardest of I [TS]

  would I thought that primer or primary [TS]

  was it has the hardest take on time [TS]

  travel and the 12 monkeys was artistic [TS]

  license and it was it was it was not [TS]

  answerable artistic license because they [TS]

  wanted to be like they didn't want to go [TS]

  for the happy ending but like it's like [TS]

  they punted they weren't going to do [TS]

  anything like it's a time travel movie [TS]

  yes but I think I like its purity I like [TS]

  the purity that the of saying there is [TS]

  only one timeline and you don't even [TS]

  need to wrap your head around everything [TS]

  that is going to happen happened if you [TS]

  send somebody back in time they're gonna [TS]

  do what they did [TS]

  there's only one stream and everything [TS]

  is in that stream and there's no [TS]

  changing anything and I thought that was [TS]

  interesting because yeah because because [TS]

  primer is not like that at all [TS]

  correct but if you're going to have a [TS]

  movie where ever there's only one [TS]

  timeline i want more complicated things [TS]

  to have happened in 12 monkeys only [TS]

  really listened in on itself once and I [TS]

  want to get really complicated dance and [TS]

  I i don't think they needed to do lots [TS]

  of looping stuff because i had the time [TS]

  travel part 12mon cases is like less [TS]

  important i think then because it's [TS]

  unlike unlike the other movies there is [TS]

  no authoritative voice in the movie [TS]

  explain do you have time travel works [TS]

  you have these crazy scientists who [TS]

  you're not sure about the competence of [TS]

  the scientists and quotes you have a [TS]

  crazy you have a crazy person who had [TS]

  various points what they do what they do [TS]

  more in 12 monkeys at a time families [TS]

  they do the unreliable narrator things [TS]

  like wait a second maybe there is no [TS]

  timetable this guy is really nuts and [TS]

  they don't go heavily into that but that [TS]

  it's more of that kind of movie than it [TS]

  is a time-travel Murray and this goes is [TS]

  nobody it being crazy when he jumps and [TS]

  then he sort of gradually becomes less [TS]

  crazy which I liked it's like a symptom [TS]

  of being described as he is nuts but he [TS]

  is the main voice like because he says [TS]

  you're already dead to me because he [TS]

  says you can't change that he is our [TS]

  he's the only person we have telling us [TS]

  have the rules of time travel movie for [TS]

  the most part and are we supposed to [TS]

  believe him [TS]

  nothing i can do is change you're all [TS]

  going to die anyway pop what does he [TS]

  know about time travel he's it has he [TS]

  been told this by authoritative people [TS]

  are not even sure it but it's mostly [TS]

  because they didn't want a hat like [TS]

  that's not what the story is about the [TS]

  story is about this guy and it's about [TS]

  like the audience's hope that the world [TS]

  will be saved and the directors desire [TS]

  not to have that happen which I find [TS]

  pleasing and and makes it a fun movie [TS]

  for me up but it's almost like time [TS]

  travel is not an important part of this [TS]

  movie is just a and it's kind of like [TS]

  they could have had a regular movie shot [TS]

  out of sequence like the pulp fiction [TS]

  type thing and had the same type of [TS]

  effect you didn't need that i'm driving [TS]

  seat for me i have this thing where I [TS]

  you know I'm not a huge fan of all [TS]

  genres of sci-fi but time-traveling that [TS]

  will always suck me in any medium and I [TS]

  feel like 12 monkeys sucks most of the [TS]

  fun out of time travel it takes a very [TS]

  sort of basic take on it with no fancy [TS]

  fullness which I am craving and I don't [TS]

  know I I saw that movie knowing nothing [TS]

  about it if you can imagine me not [TS]

  knowing anything about a movie talking [TS]

  and I I was not surprised by I like to [TS]

  be surprised by time travel to like I [TS]

  want to be surprised by was possible but [TS]

  it's sort of i don't call it exactly [TS]

  predictable but it feels to Pat I think [TS]

  there's too fine a point on it i can see [TS]

  that i mean it is directly predictable [TS]

  in that you can see that first scene and [TS]

  kind of expect what's gonna happen [TS]

  although they try to misdirect you but [TS]

  like what i liked about it is that it [TS]

  was a straight line and I I've seen so [TS]

  many twisty time travel movies that I [TS]

  don't know there's something about [TS]

  seeing something that's a little bit a [TS]

  little bit more straightforward i also [TS]

  like the fact that he goes back and [TS]

  forth and that you know it's not that [TS]

  he's unstuck he's he's just kind of [TS]

  alternating back and forth [TS]

  I don't know it also it's one of the [TS]

  more coherent terry gilliam movies ever [TS]

  it was fun it's one of the most [TS]

  conventional movies and yeah i think the [TS]

  things that are good about it are the [TS]

  Gilliam things like it has charm and [TS]

  character and whacking is I think it has [TS]

  one of the best crazy Brad Pitt [TS]

  performances but she came to do many [TS]

  performances they were like that but i [TS]

  think this is one of the best ones [TS]

  Bruce Willis's yeah I like I would [TS]

  really like brad pitt's crazy person [TS]

  performances it's sort of like is the [TS]

  baseline for crazy bread [TS]

  and other boys reason similar things [TS]

  that have no idea where I thought this [TS]

  one was charming was like that's what [TS]

  the movie is supposed to be like they're [TS]

  it's not time bandits right but it's a [TS]

  little bit wacky a little bit dark a [TS]

  little bit weird and that's what's [TS]

  interesting about this movie i think the [TS]

  weakest part of the movie are we [TS]

  watching it is the parts are trying to [TS]

  be like a regular Hollywood movie like [TS]

  the female love interest yeah her [TS]

  character arc is not believable and [TS]

  silly and you know that she's from [TS]

  another movie and you don't care about [TS]

  that you just want to see wacky [TS]

  scientists guys and bruce willis not [TS]

  knowing what's going on and failing to [TS]

  save the world like that's what i want [TS]

  to see i love the scientists to the [TS]

  that's a Gilliam moment that you almost [TS]

  right out of Brazil that I love is the [TS]

  rig that they put him in a high chair [TS]

  and there's the weird rigged with this [TS]

  monitors on it in the various British [TS]

  actors her [TS]

  there's a shot of them all looming over [TS]

  him that's just like a shot in Brazil [TS]

  where they think I mean yeah never been [TS]

  a big painting hanging over to give him [TS]

  something pleasing to look at because I [TS]

  we have an unbelievable underground and [TS]

  then these terrible cages and he's some [TS]

  kind of criminal and how to time travel [TS]

  happens without special effects and [TS]

  without any sort of pomp and [TS]

  circumstance for the most part is [TS]

  refreshing i really like and I don't [TS]

  think I notice the first time i watch [TS]

  this movie I really like how when he [TS]

  first tries to escape he ends up at a at [TS]

  like a cat scan and it's the big tube [TS]

  that they're sticking a guy into and he [TS]

  really recoiled at that and then later [TS]

  we see [TS]

  oh that's pretty much how they do the [TS]

  time travel is they put a wrap them in [TS]

  plastic and and shove them into it you [TS]

  know what plastic is essential part of [TS]

  their technique clearly the clear [TS]

  plastic a plastic environment suits all [TS]

  like the electrodes that they want to [TS]

  have their cake and eat it too that you [TS]

  want to be a silly movie and be whacking [TS]

  everything but they do want to have time [TS]

  travel but they don't want to explain it [TS]

  in anyway and so like they kind of [TS]

  trying to walk a line between don't take [TS]

  this seriously but do take it seriously [TS]

  because like you know that it's the type [TS]

  of movie like look at they are human [TS]

  races and beaten down to the apartment [TS]

  living underground and this is the time [TS]

  they discovered time travel that's not [TS]

  how you know it makes no sense right but [TS]

  you but not a type of movie you must [TS]

  think about that desperate times John [TS]

  call for desperate time travel measures [TS]

  but would it still be plausible because [TS]

  I've been part of the in seeing the [TS]

  movie is like is bristles character [TS]

  crazy or not right and if they had a [TS]

  whole thing where like they explain this [TS]

  is how time travel works and he [TS]

  understands that he knows how he's gonna [TS]

  be traveled [TS]

  you know transported back right like [TS]

  they never get into that he's just back [TS]

  whenever you know had some arbitrary [TS]

  amount of time I mean if they explained [TS]

  that wouldn't that kind of I feel like [TS]

  that kind of week in the question that [TS]

  the first half of the movie ass in terms [TS]

  of like is he crazy or not right if you [TS]

  like by keeping it vague [TS]

  it makes it to a certain extent unclear [TS]

  it's unreliable narrator more than time [TS]

  travel paradoxes and stuff yeah I mean I [TS]

  i really like 12 monkeys but it's really [TS]

  unclear what type of movie it is right [TS]

  is a science fiction movie is a terrible [TS]

  movie within science fiction genre is a [TS]

  dark comedy is it this weird love story [TS]

  that attacked in there also it's like [TS]

  it's all these things which I think are [TS]

  interesting but it's kind of jumbled and [TS]

  unclear i love this movie [TS]

  I really do but i think you're right i [TS]

  think and i think i think john hit on it [TS]

  too which is in some ways the time [TS]

  travel time travel and 12 monkeys is the [TS]

  way they do the out-of-sequence [TS]

  storytelling that ever since pulp [TS]

  fiction pretty much every other movie [TS]

  does and accepted 12 monkeys [TS]

  it's telling a linear story from bruce [TS]

  willis's perspective but it's not linear [TS]

  in terms of time which i think is kind [TS]

  of interesting without it being the [TS]

  point of the movie because the point of [TS]

  the movie isn't that the point of the [TS]

  movie is this inevitability that he's [TS]

  you know there are lots of non tried [TS]

  time travel movies where the protagonist [TS]

  is inevitably going to reach his [TS]

  destination and you maybe there's been a [TS]

  for uh you know flash forward every or [TS]

  it's told in flashback and here you know [TS]

  instead time travel is the device that [TS]

  we use to basically say that humanity is [TS]

  hurtling toward disaster and then what [TS]

  what caused it and then you have to [TS]

  wonder so that you know it's a different [TS]

  use of time travel works or not the [TS]

  point [TS]

  it's almost just like a narrative device [TS]

  to tell the story but i do like this [TS]

  movie and I love some of terry gilliam's [TS]

  movies and why I you know what I [TS]

  mentioned it earlier i really mean of [TS]

  one of the things i like about this [TS]

  movie is that it is Gilliam button down [TS]

  just enough that i didn't write it [TS]

  somewhere we have some of his excesses [TS]

  are not on display but it's still [TS]

  interesting i like the Surrey ality of [TS]

  the beginning part and I because i think [TS]

  it's sort of illustrates the [TS]

  unreliable narrator because maybe they [TS]

  are perfectly normal scientists and [TS]

  maybe this is a perfectly normal [TS]

  facility but maybe we're perceiving it [TS]

  through bruce willis's eyes and going ok [TS]

  this is really weird and he's freaking [TS]

  out and then all of a sudden he's in the [TS]

  past [TS]

  David David people's by the way who who [TS]

  r Blade Runner and Unforgiven is the [TS]

  co-writer of this movie so it's an [TS]

  interesting screenwriter to has anybody [TS]

  seen the french film that it's based on [TS]

  my youtube i believe i have shit a [TS]

  logitech no well no nobody has seen that [TS]

  movie I yeah I have a I have a link to [TS]

  it in fact the users attention to have [TS]

  seen it and they've left terrible [TS]

  comments about that that's not yes it's [TS]

  interesting it's well it's all it's all [TS]

  done in photographs he couldn't that the [TS]

  guy who made it couldn't get a film [TS]

  camera so it's all it's like a Ken Burns [TS]

  action film was it's like sliding across [TS]

  photographs and zooming in and zooming [TS]

  out [TS]

  yeah does not sound appealing know it's [TS]

  like French new way of with more action [TS]

  than some of those movies [TS]

  yeah I I so so i like i like this movie [TS]

  a lot that's why that's why I tossed it [TS]

  in here and i'm intrigued by the way [TS]

  that it uses time travel but it's not a [TS]

  movie about time travel [TS]

  so you know I like that a lot more when [TS]

  i saw when it was released because I [TS]

  guess I was a lot younger and now i'm [TS]

  still charmed by it but now I see that [TS]

  did that's problem i I'm right there [TS]

  with you this was a five-star kind of [TS]

  movie when it came out for me and now [TS]

  when I look at it I i I'm that's exactly [TS]

  what I'm charmed by it but some of the [TS]

  stuff in and madeleine stowe you know [TS]

  she's she's nice and all but her [TS]

  character is a kind of a disaster [TS]

  because it she never does she outside [TS]

  the first five minutes she's on screen I [TS]

  think she never does anything that makes [TS]

  any sense that any human being would [TS]

  ever behave the way that she does and [TS]

  she doesn't act like a nap someone in a [TS]

  terry gilliam move if she did that [TS]

  they're like all right it doesn't act [TS]

  like a normal person but she's wacky and [TS]

  crazy she's just like just like from [TS]

  another movie has no inkling that he [TS]

  might actually be from the future for a [TS]

  very long [TS]

  time and then all of a sudden she [TS]

  believes it's like her arc is not [TS]

  yeah that's that's ok when she gets [TS]

  there that she might start believing it [TS]

  but she's like sticking around with this [TS]

  guy and I never believed that she's [TS]

  doing it because she you know she's just [TS]

  a bleeding-heart who wants to make sure [TS]

  he's taken care of [TS]

  I just I never get that from her there's [TS]

  a little hook up like she remembers him [TS]

  from somewhere but like it its it's not [TS]

  enough right it's just she would have [TS]

  remembered it because the child actor [TS]

  they got the papers will look nothing [TS]

  like him and that happens later and that [TS]

  child was Joseph Gordon know I feel bad [TS]

  that I don't like about monkeys more [TS]

  because i love time travel movies i love [TS]

  Terry Gilliam I like Bruce Willis I like [TS]

  Brad Pitt can't stand this movie [TS]

  Wow and 'iblame brad pitt's he just [TS]

  really gets on my nerves he's acting I [TS]

  don't think he's acting like a crazy [TS]

  person he's acting like somebody acting [TS]

  crazy just wonder why he's acting like [TS]

  crazy Brad Pitt which is different [TS]

  yeah crazy bread print is the thing he [TS]

  thinks that crazy is you talk really [TS]

  fast and you repeat some of your [TS]

  dialogue but I I'm not charmed by I'm [TS]

  not charmed by his performance is I [TS]

  think he's hit his gestures and his [TS]

  physical comedy in this with this black [TS]

  stuff he's not believable it's not like [TS]

  in a serious movie would be a crazy guy [TS]

  he's a crazy guy is crazy for comments a [TS]

  straight stage East AG performance right [TS]

  how special needs to get him into his [TS]

  own room because nobody's getting any [TS]

  sleep no sleep gonna get better know [TS]

  what is what is wrong hospital [TS]

  plus he gets a key from somewhere how [TS]

  does that happen [TS]

  I don't know where it got it either [TS]

  first you know like present-day [TS]

  philadelphia and baltimore don't [TS]

  actually look that much worse then [TS]

  post-apocalyptic underground yeah [TS]

  seriously I was trying to think like [TS]

  we're gonna shoot this they have to make [TS]

  all sides understand our plants it's [TS]

  it's all there is no sleep they had no [TS]

  sound stages for stuff it's all power [TS]

  plants and they have a building with [TS]

  like pillars on it somewhere and they [TS]

  put like homeless people just all over [TS]

  like would put a building that nice have [TS]

  that many homeless people swarming on it [TS]

  spoiler Philadelphia remind me not to [TS]

  visit any other thoughts about twelve [TS]

  Monkeys before we we move on to another [TS]

  bit of time travel could use more [TS]

  monkeys more much [TS]

  there's a lot of markets people [TS]

  speculate there are 12 [TS]

  monkeys in their arm someone maybe he [TS]

  used too many monkeys there's a lot of [TS]

  there's a monkey that goes down the hole [TS]

  which is like you know let's be a [TS]

  parallel for you know Bruce will is not [TS]

  a continuity error to for the living [TS]

  among I said the sandwiches in tin foil [TS]

  but it's actually a plastic bag [TS]

  yeah like that's an unreliable what you [TS]

  take the word of like a guy hanging [TS]

  outside the mansion while the rumors we [TS]

  trips where you get your news the rumors [TS]

  weren't true they they didn't actually [TS]

  lower a monkey with a temple i am [TS]

  prepared to defend almost on the pics of [TS]

  12 monkeys to do you know they fired [TS]

  monkeys into the TimeGate in Southland [TS]

  Tales maybe this isn't the same universe [TS]

  one of the things i like about this [TS]

  movie is the is the appearance and and [TS]

  they overplayed a little bit in a scene [TS]

  that again I will just not resemble the [TS]

  president president the presentation of [TS]

  an academic paper that exist in any [TS]

  universe where Madeline stones got her [TS]

  various slides that she's speaking to a [TS]

  rap yeah mostly empty room of sight [TS]

  khayat rest's historians I don't even [TS]

  know what but i like the idea that these [TS]

  guys in the future had been just [TS]

  randomly shooting people through history [TS]

  trying to get information and the end [TS]

  that they're the source of these tales [TS]

  of the Apocalypse from history [TS]

  I always thought that was kind of fun [TS]

  yeah they're very good at the joke it [TS]

  you know science isn't an exact science [TS]

  okay right right on the money cut to you [TS]

  know you're in the trench warfare and [TS]

  friend out the whole idea of getting [TS]

  information from the from the past by [TS]

  like recovering like the only thing that [TS]

  survived which is like some ladies [TS]

  answering machine you know [TS]

  yes a voicemail from some random thing [TS]

  like that's all they have to go on right [TS]

  and what they didn't plan for it right [TS]

  it's no one plans for the apocalypse is [TS]

  the wilder the first guy comes back you [TS]

  think they come up with a better plan [TS]

  than leave a message on the answering [TS]

  machine if it's after we've gotten the [TS]

  phone number they get to time travel but [TS]

  they can't do you know anything else [TS]

  that's sophisticated or interesting it's [TS]

  easy to leave a message for the future [TS]

  is sketching on a rock or something [TS]

  well I think they would they knew what [TS]

  answering machines they had access to [TS]

  and so they should call this one and I'm [TS]

  gonna make sense and then I that that's [TS]

  one of those rare time-travel real time [TS]

  travel moments in this movie is where [TS]

  bruce willis leaves his message and then [TS]

  immediately his buddy John Cena from [TS]

  homicide who I really didn't like on [TS]

  homicide is it says appears and he's [TS]

  like yeah we got your message my god [TS]

  yeah at time travel movie there any [TS]

  hands on the ridiculous like kinda [TS]

  here's a gun that you need for something [TS]

  seeing the airport data that movie so [TS]

  much all I know if two metal detectors [TS]

  and he's handing him a gun while they go [TS]

  down the escalator and everything they [TS]

  could fight your way through security on [TS]

  that whole scene is shot in the [TS]

  philadelphia convention center [TS]

  oh and I've been to conferences there [TS]

  you walk down that big hallway when the [TS]

  stairs on either side you hear the whole [TS]

  accordion music is your water is no [TS]

  accordion music and it's much better lit [TS]

  um but yeah you know they've gotten much [TS]

  better at sending people into time once [TS]

  they send John Sita they sent him to [TS]

  exactly the right square foot- it it's a [TS]

  shotgun approach you know how many times [TS]

  he's been sent and where everything is [TS]

  that you don't know but we don't know [TS]

  that he could have been hanging around [TS]

  he has been eating sandwiches at the [TS]

  airport waiting six months I'd watch [TS]

  that movie but it's the terminal well [TS]

  sandwiches [TS]

  I mean him showing up is need from a [TS]

  time travel but it doesn't quite make [TS]

  sense in terms of like what is Bruce was [TS]

  actually supposed to do [TS]

  yeah didn't enjoy that part in the movie [TS]

  the audience's is still it is like you [TS]

  moved on to the Bruce Willis has to save [TS]

  the world because that [TS]

  yeah okay whatever the disappointment [TS]

  yes but that's what they're playing on a [TS]

  certain point of the movie makes you [TS]

  believe that it will be possible for [TS]

  Bruce will save the world that it takes [TS]

  that away which is what strongly about [TS]

  it see if you're a scientist the first [TS]

  thing you do when you have time travel [TS]

  is find out if you can change the past [TS]

  we should have found that out before [TS]

  sending bruce willis back yeah maybe [TS]

  they could have just screwed up [TS]

  that's true maybe just bad luck ellipse [TS]

  they're doing the best they can they're [TS]

  not the best scientists they're the only [TS]

  science that's that's why before you [TS]

  move off this movie that is actually my [TS]

  favorite part of this movies in the very [TS]

  end sequence when you've got [TS]

  what's-his-name with the ponytail going [TS]

  through a divorce [TS]

  yeah and they want and they you know [TS]

  this point you're still waiting for [TS]

  Bruce Willis to save the world and got [TS]

  the woman and they're going to go off [TS]

  together whatever and I think the 12 [TS]

  monkeys were just letting the animals [TS]

  are no big deal and they guy insist on [TS]

  seeing the stuff they're doing that [TS]

  tension thing you think it's to be like [TS]

  oh don't worry they're gonna break or [TS]

  something the guy asked them to open so [TS]

  sure pop and like that's the end of it [TS]

  with you [TS]

  that's the end of the movie opens the [TS]

  thing up before the actual end of the [TS]

  movie was yesterday everything right [TS]

  that is the great gut-punch of like [TS]

  world so how does not gonna be that kind [TS]

  of movie and it's not actually the end [TS]

  of the movies we still have the steaks [TS]

  like crystal is what happens to him or [TS]

  whatever that I love that I love that [TS]

  that's definitely terry gilliam thing [TS]

  it's like we're not going to say that is [TS]

  a big dramatic reveal we're not going to [TS]

  have a scene where we build tension but [TS]

  he just puts the miles away he's gonna [TS]

  pop that sucker open let the guys smell [TS]

  it game over and then everything else [TS]

  like he's just off to travel the rest of [TS]

  the world look at that point you know [TS]

  things are not going well so that I [TS]

  really like that and then the scientists [TS]

  on the airplane has that great line [TS]

  I'm in insurance yeah I like that that's [TS]

  that moment of that's your little moment [TS]

  of Hope right is that now they figured [TS]

  it out the end or maybe or not I guess [TS]

  some people speculate that scientists is [TS]

  there to maintain the position of [TS]

  authority that the scientists have in [TS]

  there you know dystopian future where [TS]

  they get to you know hang out and you [TS]

  know behind tables and yelling inmates i [TS]

  prefer to believe that that's the shows [TS]

  that Bruce Willis you know even though [TS]

  he died he succeeded in and saving your [TS]

  getting the information they needed to [TS]

  figure out what caused the virus but you [TS]

  could be its come on give me a little [TS]

  shred of hope in this bleak do you [TS]

  prefer like Bruce Willis as as Christ [TS]

  figure interpretation of 12 12 12 [TS]

  monkeys sure 12 monkeys will be back in [TS]

  11 mungkin 613 monkeys do not know how [TS]

  this normal what's going back we kill me [TS]

  kill a monkey every time until they're [TS]

  no more monkeys the hope at the end of [TS]

  this movie is that the animals rule the [TS]

  world and are happy and find all those [TS]

  people are gone and I get around these [TS]

  cool buildings that's that I think that [TS]

  line is not gonna like a winter in [TS]

  Philadelphia gonna it was there in the [TS]

  winter in the zoo anyway yeah yeah the [TS]

  other 12 monkeys is essentially planet [TS]

  of the apes and John's wide planted here [TS]

  and slide around on that would be much [TS]

  much bigger makeup challenge planning on [TS]

  the drafts and yeah you there Lex i have [TS]

  here yes well I you know I like what I [TS]

  what I do so I i want to thank our [TS]

  sponsor and when I do that I like to [TS]

  have people with me on this journey [TS]

  because i think it's a much more [TS]

  interesting thing where when we're [TS]

  talking about the sponsor together and [TS]

  and I i know that you are well versed in [TS]

  in in hover I him [TS]

  it's true however is an excellent [TS]

  company where they've got you can get [TS]

  your own domain there's a maiden name [TS]

  registrar that's right that you get your [TS]

  own domain and can be not just calm [TS]

  although I and you think all the [TS]

  dot-coms are gone i want i went on [TS]

  however the other day and and [TS] in about two minutes [TS]

  I got it paid for it and it was it was a [TS]

  visible in my web browser in like less [TS]

  than five minutes and and here's the [TS]

  thing you might have noticed is that [TS]

  unlike many competitive competing [TS]

  registrars you did not get interrupted [TS]

  with a million upsells along the way [TS]

  like pay extra for privacy guard and pay [TS]

  extra for faster registration and [TS]

  whatever they don't they don't do the [TS]

  upsells that ever which is nice i was [TS]

  impressed that it's our it's a very [TS]

  simple easy-to-use mean I've registered [TS]

  a lot of domains and a lot of different [TS]

  registers over the years and going to [TS]

  hover it was like I said it was super [TS]

  easy and fast in and and I appreciate [TS]

  that plus they've got I mean I mentioned [TS]

  dot-com but they've got all the domain [TS]

  endings the dot codes that TV is just [TS]

  about anything you can think about so [TS]

  you so if you've got something like I [TS]

  registered a domain for for the book [TS]

  that I'm writing because I'm gonna wanna [TS]

  I'm gonna want to promote it when when I [TS]

  publish it and it took no time at all [TS]

  and you can do all that dns matcha [TS]

  nations to set it up to point to a [TS]

  specific server or it's also got like [TS]

  easy redirect support when you check a [TS]

  box and put in a URL you want to [TS]

  redirect your domain to and boom it's [TS]

  done and that's what I did and it was it [TS]

  was done in minutes and then they also [TS]

  offer they offer email services so that [TS]

  you can for for a really low price [TS]

  add-on you can add in email addresses or [TS]

  even a blanket email addresses for [TS]

  domain so if you want to receive email [TS]

  you can do it and have all forward to [TS]

  your gmail account or any other account [TS]

  that you've got which I think it's [TS]

  pretty cool so basically it's trying to [TS]

  if you want to have that place on the [TS]

  web that you can point to it with hover [TS]

  it it demystifies all that you don't [TS]

  have to go through the rigmarole it used [TS]

  to be back in the old days when when I [TS]

  registered my first domain it was like [TS]

  cracking cracking a code and like a you [TS]

  need a time-travel scientists from 12 [TS]

  monkeys to figure it out [TS]

  and you know the the truly magical thing [TS]

  with her besides the fact that you know [TS]

  it's got that non it's got a nice design [TS]

  it's the rare domain registrar that [TS]

  isn't totally cluttered as you look at [TS]

  it but when you call them and they're [TS]

  open from eight am-2 a p.m. eastern time [TS]

  when you call them at their toll free [TS]

  number you never hear music a human [TS]

  being answers the phone actual human you [TS]

  don't have to leave a message that the [TS]

  people in the future after the [TS]

  apocalypse will get it and i use their [TS]

  there they want their valet transfer [TS]

  service so you call them up and you say [TS]

  here's the main want to transfer from [TS]

  this other crappy registrar and transfer [TS]

  to you and I was like okay we'll take [TS]

  care of it and they do it all they do [TS]

  all the work for you don't do anything [TS]

  that's pretty cool and I the other thing [TS]

  i want to mention about however was they [TS]

  are part of two cows which has been on [TS]

  the in the Mac community for ages now [TS]

  they've been around since 94 [TS]

  if you remember two cows the website and [TS]

  shareware reviews and things like that [TS]

  maybe they are they become one of the [TS]

  largest domain registers in the world [TS]

  but they're they're humble beginnings [TS]

  were actually the very Mac friendly kind [TS]

  of beginning and there and there they're [TS]

  still very nice people but they're there [TS]

  are people and now they've become this [TS]

  wild success in this other area so let's [TS]

  now is the time where I should probably [TS]

  give everybody the secret code which is [TS]

  also my favorite URL on the entire [TS]

  internet this week what is that URL if [TS]

  I'm glad you asked it is hovered calm / [TS]

  incomparable what do i get if i go there [TS]

  do you know i do you get ten percent off [TS]

  of whatever you by using that code ten [TS]

  percent off [TS]

  wow you just put it put it in you can [TS]

  also if you go just hover com you can [TS]

  put in the code and comfortable but the [TS]

  easiest way it will automatically be [TS]

  applied to your order hover com / [TS]

  incomparable so if you've got a domain [TS]

  you don't want you don't fool around [TS]

  with stuff you've already got a webhost [TS]

  somewhere else maybe you can register [TS]

  with her get that domain that you want [TS]

  and even just set it to forward and [TS]

  start there and and you don't have to [TS]

  configure any crazy dns anything and you [TS]

  can get your website up and running and [TS]

  then you can add some email to to it and [TS]

  you no longer have to be just some guy @ [TS] you can have your whole any [TS]

  domain you want as long as somebody else [TS]

  doesn't have it but [TS]

  they're out there i got a dot-com I got [TS]

  a dot-com I thought they were all gone i [TS]

  thought literally every alphabetical [TS]

  combination was taken and it's [TS]

  not so so thanks to hover and thank you [TS]

  Lex for coming along on my little helper [TS]

  journey with me but thanks to her for [TS]

  sponsoring the incomparable it's really [TS]

  great and thanks to them for letting me [TS]

  register a domain in under five minutes [TS]

  without any hassle that was pretty cool [TS]

  yeah so let's talk about a another Bruce [TS]

  Willis movie from of more recent vintage [TS]

  which is looper is rian johnson's movie [TS]

  from from last year from 2012 [TS]

  I don't know what youre you're listening [TS]

  to this podcast you could be the future [TS]

  or the past by a time-travel we just [TS]

  don't know but it was made in 2012 and [TS]

  it's bruce willis and Joseph [TS]

  gordon-levitt and I saw this movie on [TS]

  home video I didn't see it when it was [TS]

  out there so there was a lot of buzz [TS]

  about it and people really liked it and [TS]

  and you know this this is the movie [TS]

  about the the time-traveling hitmen [TS]

  let's just say the laws of time and [TS]

  space are not adhere to as firmly and [TS]

  looper as in other movies we're talking [TS]

  about tonight would that be a fair [TS]

  assessment [TS]

  well it has a set of rules and it's very [TS]

  clear about them but they're dumb rule [TS]

  yeah as soon as they announced the rules [TS]

  you're like this movie a lot but they're [TS]

  dumb rules [TS]

  yeah just like I complain about the [TS]

  scientists and 12 monkeys I feel like [TS]

  the Mafia looper could be taking much [TS]

  better advantage of the rules of the [TS]

  world they find themselves it well they [TS]

  are criminals [TS]

  yeah organized crime it's not that [TS]

  organized like 12 monkeys like this is [TS]

  what kind of branded down to the title [TS]

  as a time travel movie but the that I [TS]

  think the reason people got excited [TS]

  about this movie is that it's a time [TS]

  probably and another kind of movie that [TS]

  you don't expect it to be right [TS]

  so they have that you know that the [TS]

  telekinesis thing like it around mid way [TS]

  through the movie it shifts of like you [TS]

  thought this movie is about time travel [TS]

  actually this superpower is a kid that [TS]

  super powers on a farm and that is like [TS]

  that is really the the pros and honesty [TS]

  time travel time travel tractor [TS]

  time-travels para practica like just [TS]

  like a backdrop for the story of this [TS]

  kit [TS]

  yeah and how much you're willing to buy [TS]

  into that and how much you enjoy that [TS]

  you just want to appear time travel [TS]

  would you just want to rip our movie do [TS]

  you want to mixed it's it's an [TS]

  interesting mixture it's done and I [TS]

  think that to the two generals are mixed [TS]

  together not a clumsy way but more in [TS]

  like he didn't care that these two [TS]

  things like these to taste might not [TS]

  taste great together they're gonna be [TS]

  together and it's gonna you know it's [TS]

  going to work out the purposes of the [TS]

  story i like the idea of you meeting [TS]

  your older self and the the rules that [TS]

  have to be set up to the idea that we [TS]

  kill i'm not quite sure I understand all [TS]

  the mechanics of why they're killing who [TS]

  they're killing when they're killing [TS]

  them in the act of dumping people back [TS]

  in time to kill them and all of that it [TS]

  seems that seems like not a great use of [TS]

  time travel but but when I just like [TS]

  it's a Rube Goldberg machine yeah I do i [TS]

  do like though the that it sets up this [TS]

  yet you know young Joe and old Joe [TS]

  meeting and interesting scenes with [TS]

  Joseph gordon-levitt and bruce willis [TS]

  and also i enjoy that [TS]

  fast-forward of sort of like here's what [TS]

  would have happened if you had killed [TS]

  him then this is the life that you would [TS]

  have led which is what leads him back [TS]

  although again I i have that moment of [TS]

  like we'll wait but if he came back and [TS]

  now he didn't kill him why is he still [TS]

  here and are these parallel universes [TS]

  but no they're not because if you kill [TS]

  yourself them things disappear and [TS]

  there's no paradoxes paradoxes are [TS]

  prohibited in this universe [TS]

  sure well but what about things like [TS]

  somebody watching his fingers disappear [TS]

  yeah like that's a great comparison with [TS]

  us back to you better not but back to [TS]

  the future like that's a great [TS]

  comparison because they both did very [TS]

  similar things were like things that are [TS]

  going on now somehow affect the past [TS]

  which affect you in your current [TS]

  situation which really makes no sense [TS]

  but for some reason like in a silly you [TS]

  know kind of adventure comedy romp movie [TS]

  like back to the future find the guy's [TS]

  hand phase-out was playing guitar [TS]

  everyone's fine with it right in this [TS]

  movie that was trying to be so like here [TS]

  are rules or whatever that is perhaps [TS]

  the dumbest rule that somehow because [TS]

  we've got your other self and we cut off [TS]

  his fingers now you find yourself back [TS]

  in the exact same position you have been [TS]

  before we didn't like everything else [TS]

  happen exactly the same the only [TS]

  difference is now you don't have your [TS]

  fingers you would never be in the same [TS]

  position and same generation if you [TS]

  don't have your finger and you wouldn't [TS]

  remember you would you be like oh I [TS]

  always didn't have [TS]

  finger instead of being like holy cow i [TS]

  lost a finger will know you always [TS]

  didn't have a finger and it's the same [TS]

  and it's the same rules and more lessons [TS]

  back to the future but totally just does [TS]

  not work in this movie that rule doesn't [TS]

  work here [TS]

  I didn't like the finger stuff but I [TS]

  totally was on board with you okay I'm [TS]

  gonna scar myself now so that my older [TS]

  self can suddenly get the message i like [TS]

  that and that also seems like i got [TS]

  really bad like it makes them leaving [TS]

  messages on answering machine look like [TS]

  look civilized it's it's a cool idea [TS]

  it's you know it's so much easier in [TS]

  building 10 like we're just going to [TS]

  remember to do this later right right [TS]

  yeah yeah it was a cool idea but it [TS]

  didn't make a whole lot of sense i mean [TS]

  I the way it's executed in the movie is [TS]

  fascinating right it's like oh my God [TS]

  look what's happening [TS]

  I just feel like it would be easier to [TS]

  take the guy you want to kill and send [TS]

  it back in time into a volcano him into [TS]

  the ocean [TS]

  yea yea or just you know tell them right [TS]

  there where you got them will be [TS]

  actually have that one line that says [TS]

  why they can't do that doesn't make [TS]

  sense when you die [TS]

  ok now for the ocean whatever thats [TS]

  that's kind of why I find it refreshing [TS]

  that by the end of the movie like people [TS]

  are being torn apart by telekinesis and [TS]

  like all right now we're getting [TS]

  somewhere [TS]

  yeah i did like the one seen the diner [TS]

  where bruce willis just said it's [TS]

  complicated [TS]

  uh-huh we don't want to make diagrams [TS]

  and stuff it will get you know like it's [TS]

  fun in Back to the Future to where he [TS]

  makes a diagram but the idea that they [TS]

  made us think they were going to explain [TS]

  the rules mother said ma'am yeah well I [TS]

  didn't he didn't want to explain like [TS]

  paradoxes and timelines they had [TS]

  established the rules but it's like but [TS]

  wait a second like the person the movie [TS]

  is about to consider the dumb rules and [TS]

  merciless don't think about the dumb [TS]

  rules just like Bruce Willis in this too [TS]

  I I think he's he's got this you know [TS]

  he's he's tired and he's kind of old lug [TS]

  and he's got regret and you know there [TS]

  are a lot of things i like I liked about [TS]

  him in this movie it is weird when it [TS]

  turns into Chronicle toward the end [TS]

  where it's all you nor the x-men it's [TS]

  all this telekinesis and a showdown at a [TS]

  farm and and it didn't go where I [TS]

  expected it and I like the novelty of [TS]

  that but uh I don't know that is for a [TS]

  movie maybe the bar was set too high for [TS]

  me going in and so my expectations were [TS]

  just raised but I I I came out of this [TS]

  movie thinking it was kind of a mess and [TS]

  I [TS]

  I i liked parts of it but i'm not sure i [TS]

  liked it as a whole and that maybe it [TS]

  was just overhyped maybe that's the [TS]

  reason I felt that way [TS]

  yeah I'm not gonna be like oh I liked [TS]

  his older albums but brick when Perseus [TS]

  i enjoy doing so much more than this [TS]

  moving I thought brick was just [TS]

  fantastic and I even like Terriers which [TS]

  apparently also did an episode of [TS]

  looking at IMDB page but I like this a [TS]

  lot more than brick but break just you [TS]

  know about the brother the brothers [TS]

  bloom but no fans of that either [TS]

  I I like that very much like that [TS]

  haven't seen it you should see it [TS]

  alright that's good and you should see [TS]

  break if you haven't because i really [TS]

  like that I think it's worth watching [TS]

  it's very its kind of maybe it's like a [TS]

  one-trick pony but that trick is really [TS]

  good [TS]

  everybody but me really likes it that if [TS]

  mommy hates 12 monkeys so take that as [TS]

  you ride with your head up with nothing [TS]

  I like real film noir not see I don't [TS]

  inject well I I didn't object to loopers [TS]

  really lousy the time-travel rules [TS]

  because I i like that at least seem to [TS]

  to stick to them [TS]

  the thing that took me out of the movie [TS]

  but besides that third act where it's [TS]

  now all about superheroes instead now [TS]

  what was this notion that I'm I I don't [TS]

  like when the same person is from two [TS]

  different times fights with himself [TS]

  because I I don't know I feel like if my [TS]

  future self came to me I could be very [TS]

  quickly convinced that we were the same [TS]

  person you can make out the whole time [TS]

  like right i don't understand most of [TS]

  the time and like hash embrace but I [TS]

  feel like there's it doesn't make any [TS]

  sense to fight with a few yourself to me [TS]

  that is a paradox much more than [TS]

  anything else the movie doesn't make [TS]

  sense [TS]

  you gotta get along if my future self [TS]

  game here we just sit in the corner talk [TS]

  about how we're both the only two people [TS]

  who don't like brick and we be [TS]

  high-fiving would you not much to say no [TS]

  it would be you know that's the thing [TS]

  you already know what you're gonna tell [TS]

  me about the future [TS]

  I know what its gonna say now when I [TS]

  still like hearing myself say it [TS]

  wow you just blew my mind you just [TS]

  explain podcasting I thought Joseph [TS]

  gordon-levitt had a good job making [TS]

  bruce willis his face [TS]

  yeah yeah yeahs either miss facial [TS]

  expression that will this does a lot [TS]

  those good yeah that's sort of squinting [TS]

  thing [TS]

  yeah I fought him as the younger bruce [TS]

  willis which and a lot of movies like [TS]

  this you don't buy [TS]

  right and he had to do homework where [TS]

  they did some makeup and then he also [TS]

  had to do acting because that's what it [TS]

  really is is just gordon-levitt is [TS]

  trying to be young Bruce Willis here [TS]

  Bruce Willis's get trying to do anything [TS]

  but here's what shows up [TS]

  yeah it's not like faceoff where you [TS]

  have two characters trying to meet in [TS]

  the middle right nothing like thisoh [TS]

  personal assistants Bruno I've returned [TS]

  and that's it you just have to go with [TS]

  it i also like that they should have new [TS]

  parents watch this movie if you want to [TS]

  know what it's like when kids have [TS]

  tantrums [TS]

  oh god yes blood everywhere yeah don't [TS]

  have time to watch the looper they have [TS]

  their kids having tantrums they can [TS]

  watch the last hop just skip to the end [TS]

  they can watch it in 10 minutes [TS]

  installments over a couple of weeks [TS]

  that's why do parents hate people who [TS]

  don't have kids people who don't have [TS]

  kids are all I saw this movie called [TS]

  looper [TS]

  yeah it was actually kind of liked that [TS]

  movie it like i like that the idea of a [TS]

  you know you had kids with super powers [TS]

  and tianjin super what about like [TS]

  toddlers supervisor because that seems [TS]

  like a much bigger problem [TS]

  yeah acre rotate great strips Superman's [TS]

  babysitter go searching for that it's [TS]

  great it's the problems a babysitter has [TS]

  with Superman the toddler one of the [TS]

  things i did like about looper was that [TS]

  you know it so you have the time-travel [TS]

  you have the the sort of mutant [TS]

  superpower kid but you also have film [TS]

  noir and you also have like Shane [TS]

  basically you know your hero defending [TS]

  the the woman and the child and I kinda [TS]

  like that it it did take that Shane [TS]

  template and then resolved it in a way [TS]

  that Shane would never have done [TS]

  although the kid would still go come [TS]

  back trying not to spoil it but you know [TS]

  and we will play the spoiler horn at the [TS]

  end of the episode that it wasn't 12 and [TS]

  12 monkeys the members forces all i see [TS]

  are dead people i don't remember the [TS]

  movies before after success before is [TS]

  before four or maybe it was after [TS]

  oh it was both it depends what time when [TS]

  you're in [TS]

  alright i did find it interesting too [TS]

  that both 12 monkeys and looper don't [TS]

  just deal with time travel but the idea [TS]

  of the time-travel screws up your brain [TS]

  right right [TS]

  he's crazy and 12 monkeys and he's kind [TS]

  of losing his mind the longer he's in [TS]

  the past and looper which is weird but I [TS]

  like it [TS]

  well you know the idea that time travel [TS]

  is a really bad idea [TS]

  yes no on so many levels yeah and then [TS]

  they organized crime comes in and they [TS]

  put their own bad idea of how to time [TS]

  travel on top of the bad idea [TS]

  I feel like in addition to the just eat [TS]

  the general idea of sending people back [TS]

  in time not being a great idea [TS]

  like why have people in charge of [TS]

  killing themselves that seems like just [TS]

  like that's an administrative decision [TS]

  that they made that I don't agree with [TS]

  it so easy to send you back to someone [TS]

  who won't have a moral problem with [TS]

  killing yeah it seems like you know like [TS]

  there's 30 other guys and that they have [TS]

  a ready supply of those people [TS]

  yeah they use one of them I i would kill [TS]

  them in the future and send the body [TS]

  back to the ocean and done or I feel [TS]

  like if you have time travel [TS]

  you could probably make a whole lot of [TS]

  money without going to all the effort of [TS]

  being the mob [TS]

  yeah yes betting on horse dreams whether [TS]

  they only intended well I guess yeah we [TS]

  don't know today only in time travel in [TS]

  one direction or something weird [TS]

  yeah the whole idea of i was actually [TS]

  let down by the idea of the Rainmaker [TS]

  who is consolidating all the gangs and I [TS]

  thought that was going to be an [TS]

  interesting you know this is why this is [TS]

  accelerating but it was sort of shadowy [TS]

  and then at the end we get this [TS]

  revelation of like oh that the kid is [TS]

  gonna grow up to be the Rainmaker or is [TS]

  he and i kinda wanted the other kids to [TS]

  be the Rainmaker [TS]

  yeah i was just like okay yes i would [TS]

  have been a nice twist it will and it [TS]

  was the law of the economy of characters [TS]

  to happening there where it's like well [TS]

  who could it be there you know it's the [TS]

  people we've known apparently because it [TS]

  has to be somebody we have known and [TS]

  yeah i don't know i don't know like i [TS]

  said i don't think it was a bad movie [TS]

  but it didn't you know people were [TS]

  raving about it and maybe I've seen too [TS]

  many time travel movies to be impressed [TS]

  I I saw it on like opening day and went [TS]

  into it not knowing too much about it [TS]

  and I enjoyed it a lot but you know i'd [TS]

  say it's one of the better science [TS]

  fiction movies i saw that year but that [TS]

  is a yeah lobar yeah I thought it was [TS]

  really fun but i think the next one down [TS]

  the line was like Prometheus or [TS]

  something you know I thought was really [TS]

  fun when I was walking out of it and by [TS]

  the time I got home I thought of a lot [TS]

  of plot holes but didn't really affect [TS]

  my enjoyment during the movie itself [TS]

  there's a lot of interesting stuff in [TS]

  there with her you know they're funny [TS]

  rocket cars and you know these weird you [TS]

  know the guy that setback from from the [TS]

  future to run the organized crime was [TS]

  like kind of a big deal but you get the [TS]

  idea that probably getting sent back in [TS]

  time is you know not exactly a motion [TS]

  motion for me I like my character a lot [TS]

  yeah that was reported a lot of there's [TS]

  a lot of interesting stuff in there but [TS]

  yeah there's some stuff that doesn't [TS]

  that doesn't stick [TS]

  um you know I i enjoyed the ending I [TS]

  didn't expect the ending the way it was [TS]

  and I don't know other people you know [TS]

  read that had you know 30 minutes into [TS]

  it but now that was clever this this lot [TS]

  of moving parts in this movie I feel [TS]

  like they had too much stuff in it like [TS]

  all the things we just mentioned [TS]

  time-travel telekinesis rocket cars [TS]

  organized crime especially love love [TS]

  this love interest child in danger [TS]

  motherhood like you could remove a whole [TS]

  bunch of those pieces and and make the [TS]

  end like the individual scenes were good [TS]

  you know the crime boss the guy in [TS]

  trouble the crime boss like those scenes [TS]

  were fine but like is like now we're [TS]

  gonna have one of those scenes and now [TS]

  we're going to seem like this and now [TS]

  we're going to be seen this movie is [TS]

  just but by the end of it and what is [TS]

  the kid [TS]

  have to be a telekinetic monster why [TS]

  can't he just be like really good at [TS]

  running organized crime in the future [TS]

  right [TS]

  not that I want to capture that lineup [TS]

  but I would have been like look at you [TS]

  can't you can't also make a sort of film [TS]

  noir and also make a time-travel we also [TS]

  make an organized crime would also make [TS]

  a little you know same time movie like [TS]

  he can't do all those well and so I [TS]

  would have concentrated on the ones that [TS]

  were the most interesting and sacrifice [TS]

  the bunch of others when when I i will [TS]

  they did like a lot of the acting in it [TS]

  you know i like the Bruce will is [TS]

  actually acted a little bit a little bit [TS]

  you can do that sometimes [TS]

  yeah this is rian johnson is directed [TS]

  several episodes of Breaking Bad [TS]

  including i think i'm pretty sure he [TS]

  directed the one called fly which is [TS]

  just the two of them in her room and [TS]

  they never leave the room and that's it [TS]

  and I mean there's some really nice [TS]

  acting in that so there were a lot of [TS]

  scenes in this that reminded me of that [TS]

  but then I wanted to go see that instead [TS]

  gets better [TS]

  ryan Johnson in my opinion is kind of a [TS]

  show-off [TS]

  yes he would like you to know he is [TS]

  clever and he is clever and he is [TS]

  cleaned up we get it you made a movie [TS]

  time-travel gangster telekinesis film [TS]

  noir Shane rocket car movie we got a [TS]

  space for Krugerrands [TS]

  well if you guys want a movie that's [TS]

  just time travel let me interest you in [TS]

  primer and also left an 80-minute 100k [TS]

  primer primer whatever you want to call [TS]

  it [TS]

  I thought we were only watching bruce [TS]

  willis time travel movies with bruce [TS]

  willis ladies bracelet replace the box i [TS]

  watch disney's a kid was that an [TS]

  accident that was it was an accident on [TS]

  many lives I watched Pulp Fiction i'm [TS]

  pretty sure they jump I'd be I'd be [TS]

  happy to talk about unbreakable because [TS]

  i love that movie but we probably should [TS]

  stick to the time travel theme and I've [TS]

  been meaning to talk about primer primer [TS]

  however you want to call it premieres [TS]

  correct forever [TS]

  you can call it whatever you like it's [TS]

  it famously 2004 movie directed produced [TS]

  starring written financed all seven [TS]

  thousand dollars of it by a chain [TS]

  Carruth literally made this movie for [TS]

  seven thousand dollars but is overrated [TS]

  shows uh well it's 47 thousand dollars [TS]

  its kind of [TS]

  amazing as good as it looks but it's [TS]

  definitely a seven thousand dollar movie [TS]

  I i really love this movie but i also [TS]

  have no judgments against people who [TS]

  hate it because it is weird and it is [TS]

  hard to follow and it's mumbly and lots [TS]

  of things don't happen for a while and [TS]

  then when things start happening they [TS]

  happen in rapid succession and you go [TS]

  what wait a second what happened but as [TS]

  a time travel movie what I like about it [TS]

  is it feels to me appropriately [TS]

  confusing for time travel i guess that's [TS]

  the thing I liked about it is consistent [TS]

  in its own way and yet completely crazy [TS]

  in a way that I think time travel would [TS]

  be so I like that about it i'm [TS]

  interested what you guys think of a [TS]

  primer that's what i was saying i [TS]

  thought i had the hardest rules of time [TS]

  travel because it was like no time [TS]

  travel messes you up [TS]

  it is confusing if you're an observer or [TS]

  participants anybody it is doesn't act [TS]

  in the way that you expected to and it's [TS]

  totally hardcore of like we are you know [TS]

  they even had seems like here we're [TS]

  going to show you with a pencil paper [TS]

  how this thing works or whatever but [TS]

  like that's just it within the context [TS]

  of the movie once people start time [TS]

  traveling it's like sorry it's time [TS]

  travel it's going to be confusing and [TS]

  yes and the model they have ya is our [TS]

  the the rules are confusing which I like [TS]

  to like the system they have laid out is [TS]

  a confusing system just you know simply [TS]

  how the box works it is not simple even [TS]

  it is most basic level before it starts [TS]

  being experienced before you before you [TS]

  before you even get some the box just [TS]

  explain how the box works like [TS]

  understanding that rule system and then [TS]

  it's like a game where they teach you a [TS]

  mechanic like here's why jumping works [TS]

  and here's our weapon works right and [TS]

  then they slowly ramp you up this one is [TS]

  like they teach you a mechanic [TS]

  you don't understand the mechanics and [TS]

  then they put your last level of the [TS]

  game and before they tell you that [TS]

  there's time travel in the movie you're [TS]

  already on at least the third time [TS]

  through some of the essence [TS]

  yes you think you're watching the [TS]

  discovery of it and then realize that [TS]

  it's actually already been well [TS]

  discovered i think that's debatable I've [TS]

  seen the big chart and everything I [TS]

  don't you can you can see a lot of early [TS]

  scenes as the first time TSU works [TS]

  perfectly well because they do show you [TS]

  the same thing [TS]

  the original seems yes but the first [TS]

  scene where a biz up on [TS]

  building looking down at Aaron all you [TS]

  got the head Brian that's at least the [TS]

  third time that scene is played out [TS]

  right but you cannot there's also an [TS]

  interpretation that works within the [TS]

  rules of the movie that the first time [TS]

  you see a lot of the scenes is actually [TS]

  not the first time that they occurred in [TS]

  the timelines because you know in the [TS]

  times when things go well on the [TS]

  headphones go off without a hitch [TS]

  it looks the same as the first time [TS]

  that's the whole point [TS]

  yeah yeah I like um and I know again [TS]

  there are reasons why people and i'm [TS]

  waiting because I know Lex didn't like [TS]

  this movie i think the things that I [TS]

  like about it is I I like that it's a [TS]

  bunch of nerds who are trying to figure [TS]

  something out i like that the idea that [TS]

  time travel might be invented in this [TS]

  completely random accidental way in an [TS]

  office park in austin and somewhere in [TS]

  Texas in Austin but it's seems like cost [TS]

  ya will say it's austin uh and and you [TS]

  know they figure it out slowly they [TS]

  think they're doing something else and [TS]

  they're wondering there's a guy i think [TS]

  a nice scene when they when the good [TS]

  they go to the guy who's like this is [TS]

  months of growth on this penny or [TS]

  whatever it is we love we bore a weeble [TS]

  that's right [TS]

  uh I like all of that that that they [TS]

  they don't know what they're doing you [TS]

  know that they just suddenly have this [TS]

  thing and then and then we understand [TS]

  again it's a movie that nerds can love [TS]

  because it explainers it explains like [TS]

  in an interesting way it's not a magic [TS]

  portal that you step through you have to [TS]

  get in a box with an oxygen tank and [TS]

  wait there as you go back [TS]

  second-by-second I kinda like that [TS]

  mechanic that it's it's really hard it's [TS]

  weird it's what you know it's perfectly [TS]

  reasonably what time travel would be [TS]

  when you discovered time travel which is [TS]

  not easy [TS]

  I don't know if it's it's the fact that [TS]

  it's hard as it is realistic but not the [TS]

  amended mechanics I'm willing to give it [TS]

  a pass on that but it's not real time [TS]

  travel John I know you know the secrets [TS]

  of the rear travel but that's how we [TS]

  look so yeah but it seems really wish to [TS]

  me that it would be weird and hard and [TS]

  that that not what we expect from the [TS]

  movies and the idea that it's discovered [TS]

  by accident and yeah i mean this movie [TS]

  is very INXS unaccessible the amount we [TS]

  are just the the opening sequence with [TS]

  the the nerds who are wearing ties [TS]

  sitting in a kitchen putting something [TS]

  two envelopes and there [TS]

  talking over each other and there [TS]

  mumbling and there's four characters two [TS]

  of them were not actually going to see [TS]

  that much yeah it's you know there's [TS]

  there's a lot in that first like like 20 [TS]

  minutes that like I could see a lot of [TS]

  people pretty justifiably turning this [TS]

  movie off especially for a 78 with [TS]

  minute yes spent 20 minutes of nothing [TS]

  happening [TS]

  yeah well that's why works as a film [TS]

  festival movie though because film [TS]

  festival ways they love that you go in [TS]

  it's a bunch of people in the kitchen [TS]

  you don't know what it's about and then [TS]

  they hit you in the film festival people [TS]

  love that but you compare that to the [TS]

  final 20 minutes which is right about [TS]

  when they say yes maybe we can purposely [TS]

  affect the past and then think just go [TS]

  completely crazy and every day the [TS]

  director had throating immediately then [TS]

  the movies over [TS]

  i I've seen this movie I think three or [TS]

  four times now the most recent time like [TS]

  two days ago when I was rewatching it [TS]

  was feeling like really good like I'm [TS]

  finally getting it and then like you [TS]

  know I rewatched the last 12 minutes [TS]

  like you have twice and I was like oh so [TS]

  close and yet no I don't you know it's [TS]

  like I've seen the chart and I could [TS]

  like replicate that chart for somebody [TS]

  but i could not construct that chart [TS]

  from my own viewing of the monster movie [TS]

  I've seen it like five or six times and [TS]

  every time it's like that where I get to [TS]

  the point I'm like wait a second [TS]

  hydrocodone looks like i can look at the [TS]

  terminus ya doing when they step matches [TS]

  to what I've seen it's like it's like if [TS]

  I was looking at like a matter you know [TS]

  math problem when I'd be like yeah that [TS]

  solution makes sense but I could never [TS]

  solve this problem but there but there [TS]

  are multiple possible solutions given [TS]

  the rule that string variable yeah there [TS]

  are multiple possible solutions that fit [TS]

  and like and I think the trend is the [TS]

  simplest basically I was gonna say my [TS]

  favorite thing about the movie for Lex [TS]

  craft over but now i'm going to crap all [TS]

  over a little bit a lot of the problem [TS]

  with this movie aside from like pacing [TS]

  and low budget stuff like that [TS]

  is that a lot and a lot of the reason [TS]

  it's hard to understand it it fails to [TS]

  communicate the ideas that i wanted to [TS]

  communicate like if you watch a movie a [TS]

  hundred times you can see I can see in [TS]

  this scene this is what the director was [TS]

  trying to say but it does a bad job of [TS]

  community that either because they have [TS]

  an important conversation and they only [TS]

  got one take of it and then decided to [TS]

  buy it by running water like [TS]

  16-millimeter film is our attention and [TS]

  you can't really defend that's what I [TS]

  mean he specifically said this I guess [TS]

  this movie basically couldn't have been [TS]

  longer than 80 minutes because they're [TS]

  just there was no other footage right [TS]

  they did like maximum to take some [TS]

  everything right [TS]

  it's also like it didn't even it didn't [TS]

  even succeed on the basic level just [TS]

  communicating waterbar be communicated [TS]

  the same because of budget and because [TS]

  of you know experience all things and [TS]

  that is probably the worst thing about [TS]

  this movie you can see like there's a [TS]

  confidence problem and that contributes [TS]

  to its difficulty understanding the [TS]

  people who love the movies i'll know [TS]

  it's don't you understand so awesome is [TS]

  so hard to understand sometimes it's [TS]

  hard to understand because the guy did a [TS]

  bad job is right and that's that's my [TS]

  problem is that it's not i don't mind a [TS]

  movie where you have to work extra hard [TS]

  to understand i don't mind movie where [TS]

  you get more out of it by watching it [TS]

  multiple times or even if you basically [TS]

  need to watch at multiple times [TS]

  understand it but i think that that was [TS]

  not necessarily their intent when they [TS]

  made this movie i think it is a side [TS]

  effect of not just pour filmmaking in a [TS]

  sense of its low budget like I think you [TS]

  could show somebody this movie and they [TS]

  would not necessarily recognize that it [TS]

  was made for seven thousand dollars i [TS]

  think that's a testament to whatever [TS]

  grilling skills they had that they [TS]

  pulled off what they did I think it is a [TS]

  script that is flawed and I i get and I [TS]

  respect the notion of i'm going to write [TS]

  this with you know i'm not going to [TS]

  pander to the audience i'm not going to [TS]

  make any of the dialogue accessible in [TS]

  the first half of the film is losing [TS]

  more money i shot and I started and I [TS]

  paid for its for be but you have to do [TS]

  something you have to be involved in [TS]

  math maybe you know I do a lot of [TS]

  multi-screen stuff there's a lot of [TS]

  movies and television that I consumed [TS]

  while i also have a laptop on my lap or [TS]

  an iPad in my hand this is not a movie [TS]

  for you right so there's you know when i [TS]

  watch this movie the first time I made [TS]

  that mistake so when I rewatched it last [TS]

  week for this podcast I said you know [TS]

  there will be no distractions nobody was [TS]

  home the kids were all asleep my wife [TS]

  was as it was just me and the TV and I [TS]

  really got no further i mean i've read [TS]

  the charts [TS]

  I've read the articles i've read [TS]

  analysis I don't want to work this hard [TS]

  and it's not it misses out on the [TS]

  enjoyable factor like i was talking [TS]

  before with 12 monkeys that there's some [TS]

  kind of innate fun to me in time travel [TS]

  even if it's a dark story i wanna do [TS]

  something fun about it and this is just [TS]

  the chores just manual labor in movie [TS]

  form eight kids do you ever think your [TS]

  movies didn't have the challenge of a [TS]

  crossword puzzle in them yet but I have [TS]

  delicate hands [TS]

  this is one of my favorite movies and I [TS]

  watched it so many times I'm convinced i [TS]

  dunno what happened [TS]

  in it and I have a correction i like to [TS]

  make to that charter one scene but i [TS]

  will say i noticed today we'll be [TS]

  watching it if I walk out of the room i [TS]

  immediately can't understand anybody [TS]

  like I have to be staring at screens yes [TS]

  time [TS]

  yeah it's up Monty i'm with you this is [TS]

  this is one of my favorites as well but [TS]

  it's not for everybody eat it one of the [TS]

  things I like about it is that I feel [TS]

  like it is internally consistent i think [TS]

  i think Lex and John are right that [TS]

  there's a combination of some it in [TS]

  competence or something like that of the [TS]

  director because he's new to this that [TS]

  is part of it but I do i do think [TS]

  absolutely that this is a movie that [TS]

  does not [TS]

  it's gonna come to you on your own terms [TS]

  and it doesn't it just doesn't care if [TS]

  you don't understand it which I kind of [TS]

  I'm up for that challenge and I feel [TS]

  like I do understand it more now but i [TS]

  love that every time i go back to it I i [TS]

  get another nuance of it and i love that [TS]

  it is telling a story that i haven't [TS]

  seen a million times before or at least [TS]

  in a way that makes me feel like I [TS]

  haven't seen a million times before for [TS]

  such a short movie and for such a techie [TS]

  movie i love the little extra things [TS]

  that puts in like I can see somebody's [TS]

  bleeding from the ear because time [TS]

  travel was hard on you or maybe it's [TS]

  from spending all that time in a box [TS]

  full of argon but then later when they [TS]

  say and I can't write anymore i can see [TS]

  the show you how much but I can't make [TS]

  the hand do it [TS]

  that's neat yeah that's disturbing thing [TS]

  to have happened to the movies an [TS]

  interesting contrast with another movie [TS]

  that is compared to a lot of memento [TS]

  which has a similar structure where you [TS]

  gotta pay attention to it and you can [TS]

  figure it out if you watch enough [TS]

  memento is like if you had filled in all [TS]

  the gaps in the script where someone [TS]

  should have said something they didn't [TS]

  if you had shot a slightly more complex [TS]

  momento you watch it three times you get [TS]

  it I get you know it you don't need a [TS]

  chart you don't need to read articles [TS]

  but you probably do need to see more [TS]

  than one time and maybe I and momentum [TS]

  has the amazing than the first time you [TS]

  see it if you pay attention you will [TS]

  believe you understand it by the end of [TS]

  it and maybe even will [TS]

  that's not true of this movie at all and [TS]

  so like you get its a similar approach [TS]

  to filmmaking it if you like that kind [TS]

  of puzzle movie memento is kind of the [TS]

  easy listening [TS]

  smooth jazz version and primers like the [TS]

  thrash metal or indie rocker REM in 1972 [TS]

  we'll see i think the other piece [TS]

  there's that memento you could react it [TS]

  and people have I think you can even get [TS]

  a DVD that does it you can re-edit [TS]

  momento in chronological order and [TS]

  understand what's actually happening and [TS]

  I don't think you can do that with [TS]

  private not without additional voiceover [TS]

  probably right [TS]

  there's parts of primer that don't [TS]

  happen in the movie there's a guy that [TS]

  yeah Charles Iranian lots and lots of [TS]

  the future we never see ya there's a guy [TS]

  right that's one of my favorite moments [TS]

  is that there's a guy who's obviously [TS]

  been using the box and they don't even [TS]

  know like yeah I mean we have never seen [TS]

  him and he's been mentioned but how the [TS]

  hell did that happen but he donated then [TS]

  they're like we're not we're not going [TS]

  to worry about that that's just letting [TS]

  you know that you know that things are [TS]

  unsettled things aren't really [TS]

  problematic that is not again we're not [TS]

  going to solve that guy's not gonna be [TS]

  okay with calculator because that's what [TS]

  it would be like if you were in that if [TS]

  you're in the situation where time [TS]

  travels possible things would happen [TS]

  that you have no explanation for that [TS]

  don't make any sense and that even [TS]

  though you know time travel is possible [TS]

  you still can decrease that never got [TS]

  there like your your causality engine of [TS]

  trying to make explain the world is [TS]

  broken because something happens and you [TS]

  can even use like but if he went like [TS]

  this too many possibilities yeah so [TS]

  that's why I mean that it's same thing [TS]

  with the sort of obtusa voiceovers why [TS]

  doesn't why is the voice-over say [TS]

  everything like why doesn't come out and [TS]

  say anything why is it all kind of like [TS]

  I'm apologizing to my cell phone [TS]

  answering machine about something that [TS]

  happened that we both already know so i [TS]

  don't have to spell it out like that the [TS]

  voice-over being like that is part of [TS]

  the challenge of the movie but it also [TS]

  is part of the you know failing to [TS]

  communicate part of the movie and it's [TS]

  also part of the this is not the smooth [TS]

  jazz version so it's you know that the [TS]

  good things and the bad things kind of [TS]

  combined with my thing in time travel [TS]

  movies as i always want the scientists [TS]

  like i said in a 12 monkeys [TS]

  the first thing you do is find out if [TS]

  you can change the past well that's what [TS]

  these guys did you can actually see them [TS]

  tinkering saying we have time travel [TS]

  what can we do with it yeah but my [TS]

  favorite part of this movie and the part [TS]

  that makes this whole movie for me the [TS]

  first time I watched them like finally [TS]

  someone has made this movie is that this [TS]

  has the best and as far as I'm concerned [TS]

  the only realistic scene between two [TS]

  people I where one is introducing the [TS]

  other something fantastical that scene [TS]

  where they're at the truck and they're [TS]

  saying look you're about to [TS]

  something I know you're going to think [TS]

  that I'm like making fun of you or that [TS]

  I'm you know like that is what a dirty [TS]

  person would do to preface what was [TS]

  about to happen because it's the it's [TS]

  you have to go in and say I know what [TS]

  you're going to think because it's [TS]

  ridiculous but I promise you I'm not [TS]

  playing a joke on you i wouldn't do [TS]

  something like that whole preface is the [TS]

  most human part of this movie and i [TS]

  think is you know the most realistic [TS]

  part because that's what draws you win [TS]

  you like the whole idea these guys are [TS]

  gonna do this in their garage or like if [TS]

  they didn't do this in the garage this [TS]

  is how they were acting having them go [TS]

  immediately to and let's go for the [TS]

  stock market like that's what nerds [TS]

  would do right and then of course it [TS]

  goes off the rails because they're human [TS]

  and it's like well we have time travel [TS]

  now bad things are gonna happen and the [TS]

  darker natures are gonna come out all [TS]

  the stuff or whatever but that that [TS]

  little nugget in the center of the movie [TS]

  and that whole scene i think it's nicely [TS]

  letting everything that sells the whole [TS]

  movie to me oh it's the nicely let's see [TS]

  it shouldn't be in the middle of a movie [TS]

  it should be earlier in the movie my [TS]

  favorite movie is when it ended in like [TS]

  you didn't like that bet [TS]

  no I did I liked that bit it just came [TS]

  too late even beyond the kind of the [TS]

  confusion about the time-travel elements [TS]

  there's also some stuff that in there [TS]

  that's confusing just in terms of not [TS]

  explaining that would like there's the [TS]

  whole thing we're gonna go back in and [TS]

  redo the party over and over again and [TS]

  why is that is the word that seem like [TS]

  like like that I did I couldn't even [TS]

  completely piece together who the [TS]

  relationships were between them and [TS]

  people rights [TS]

  people rights [TS]

  why that like it was like his eyes [TS]

  married but he wants to be a hero right [TS]

  like the details the details and [TS]

  confusing and I think that that you [TS]

  could potentially chalk up to the you [TS]

  know this being a novice writer-director [TS]

  I felt like the other stuff that was [TS]

  intentionally confusing like like that [TS]

  that right boys like light up that seam [TS]

  is that they're trying to keep doing [TS]

  that something terrible happens at the [TS]

  party and they keep redoing it until [TS]

  they get it right but I but their [TS]

  motivation was unclear but I think [TS]

  that's right that's just the part of the [TS]

  movie where they've stopped hiding in a [TS]

  hotel because they're afraid of [TS]

  affecting anything which was a good idea [TS]

  another like well screw we can define [TS]

  the future however we want and my guess [TS]

  and this is just a guess is that they [TS]

  decided that the shooting at the party [TS]

  was what led to grainger coming back [TS]

  from the future so fix that [TS]

  yeah it's just weird because i didn't [TS]

  really explain it was the whole thing [TS]

  where Aaron wanted to be the hero right [TS]

  like that was like they would get things [TS]

  where it wasn't like the shooting would [TS]

  be prevented no one's hurt but it wasn't [TS]

  satisfactory enough right and like I [TS]

  didn't really get why did he care about [TS]

  what was his relationship with the woman [TS]

  who I thought was actually involved a [TS]

  but they don't really explain that life [TS]

  you know there was that that to me was [TS]

  like wire but I didn't get that there's [TS]

  a lot of technical detail in this movie [TS]

  not so much with the character detail [TS]

  let me guess you guys are are sort of [TS]

  interesting although sort of [TS]

  interchangeable at times and some of [TS]

  their interaction about discovery and [TS]

  enthusiasm of the discovery is good it's [TS]

  possible that naming them a band Aaron [TS]

  there's a problem you [TS]

  I mean I liked a lot about they had a [TS]

  lot of that like their interplay between [TS]

  them [TS]

  I like the discovery process where it's [TS]

  kind of their going back and forth each [TS]

  making kind of little breakthroughs I [TS]

  thought I thought that actually kind of [TS]

  modeled scientific discovery in a way [TS]

  that ya never see in movies and that was [TS]

  neat and and things like that and then [TS]

  not understanding stuff and working [TS]

  through it but but then yet it is it's [TS]

  completely unclear to move kind of what [TS]

  their relationships with any of these [TS]

  other people are and there are other [TS]

  people in the movie right are no i did [TS]

  enjoy the moment speaking of other [TS]

  people when they are talking a [TS]

  like I don't know his characters which [TS]

  but when there's one say to the other [TS]

  that you should go to another hemisphere [TS]

  and just live his life and don't come [TS]

  back [TS]

  I like the idea of having multiples of [TS]

  you who are living a different [TS]

  hemispheres that you can each have your [TS]

  own take on your life i thought that was [TS]

  fun [TS]

  yeah i'm gonna go to France or I'm gonna [TS]

  go to Asia and i'm going to do mandarin [TS]

  i'm going to build a very large box and [TS]

  we believe they shot that on location [TS]

  and trance on that budget have these [TS]

  whole justify everybody they have to [TS]

  fragment when i say when i saw that [TS]

  scene because I hadn't seen this movie [TS]

  in a long time when I saw that scene [TS]

  again in my head that scene was so [TS]

  clearly France is so clearly epic and [TS]

  then you look at it again it's like [TS]

  close shots of people in a room like [TS]

  there's nothing to suggest it's like [TS]

  Israel to suggest they didn't even try [TS]

  like but somehow the first time I saw [TS]

  that movie I was so on you know just for [TS]

  the magic of moviemaking yep he's in [TS]

  France now he's gonna build a big one of [TS]

  these things like if you know the [TS]

  theater of the mind works so much better [TS]

  than now now i can watch it without [TS]

  getting that caught up and unlike out [TS]

  they there there in some guys garage yet [TS]

  the guy who speaks French is that good [TS]

  because we couldn't afford that that [TS]

  match shot of the big-box being [TS]

  constructed that would cost more than [TS]

  the movie so that's a big point in favor [TS]

  of this movie [TS]

  this might be the only movie ever where [TS]

  they have one scene in France and they [TS]

  don't establish it with the Eiffel Tower [TS]

  expensive to buy the footage David [TS]

  lawyer or an actual writer of things we [TS]

  look at a movie like this by a novice [TS]

  writer-director I mean do you look at it [TS]

  and think it's it's it's an interesting [TS]

  attempt or is it is it more of a weird [TS]

  failure [TS]

  I'm just kind of curious what your take [TS]

  on a movie like this is well I you know [TS]

  I'd love to walk up to him and slap him [TS]

  a few times haha [TS]

  because well you know i love i really [TS]

  like the logic of it and you know and [TS]

  the rules and you know building the [TS]

  thing in the discovery and all that you [TS]

  know there's so many things that are [TS]

  really well done and then the story and [TS]

  the acting just don't hold up to the [TS]

  rigid logic of the science of it you [TS]

  know the acting I mean I think that's [TS]

  why we don't know any of these other [TS]

  characters is that there they don't know [TS]

  any actors ahead to have it over and [TS]

  also have well lines yeah yeah [TS]

  the right down here a biz blonde this [TS]

  movie I've seen like double digits [TS]

  yeah well after I saw the first time [TS]

  because i watched it twice in the last [TS]

  week because I've never seen it before [TS]

  and what I heard about it for years and [TS]

  so I read up on it afterwards and you [TS]

  know the whole thing if you know I [TS]

  couldn't find any actors who couldn't [TS]

  inject you know they injected too much [TS]

  drama into it so we decided to do it [TS]

  ourselves and first of all I know enough [TS]

  actors in Texas to know that [TS]

  yeah there are people who can do that [TS]

  but if he had been able to step outside [TS]

  and see someone else doing it then he [TS]

  might have seen the problems with it [TS]

  right [TS]

  um you know Woody Allen can get away [TS]

  with that and even Woody Allen has [TS]

  problems with some of his movies [TS]

  especially of late but you know to write [TS]

  and direct and star and be the [TS]

  cinematographer that's too much for your [TS]

  first movie yeah and I think all of the [TS]

  problems I had with the story came from [TS]

  that and all the problems I had with the [TS]

  acting came from because because a lot [TS]

  of it is done in that sort of dragnet [TS]

  monotone yeah let's get through the [TS]

  scene before the film runs out we're [TS]

  gonna talk like this and you talk about [TS]

  me however years talk i think i know [TS]

  you're a bit of a control freak is what [TS]

  I want you know really I grew up with [TS]

  engineers so yeah I know [TS]

  yeah exactly the weird thing is that i [TS]

  think he did the things that are [TS]

  difficult [TS]

  well and the things that are yes sadly [TS]

  so for example that uses there's a [TS]

  cinema star will be like that there's a [TS]

  cns movie where lighters for Aaron [TS]

  fights himself and you believe that our [TS]

  invites himself but he couldn't afford [TS]

  half hour and actually find himself he [TS]

  couldn't even afford to have a guy with [TS]

  a wig you see from the back fight [TS]

  himself the the scene in the movie reads [TS]

  as oakley that's Aaron fighting himself [TS]

  that's a good job someone who you think [TS]

  that's difficult to do on a budget when [TS]

  you can't do any of those good things [TS]

  but the basic thing of like have people [TS]

  have lines to establish what they are [TS]

  what their relationships are to each [TS]

  other and make sure the oddball the [TS]

  audio is it [TS]

  understandable that he messes up but but [TS]

  he can he can do a guy fighting himself [TS]

  for seven thousand dollars for the whole [TS]

  movie [TS]

  I mean look I'm not going to defend the [TS]

  audio in the scene where they're from [TS]

  the fountain ridiculous [TS]

  oh oh yeah that hurt yeah that hurt [TS]

  seven thousand dollars though it's got [TS]

  you know there was a pretty fountain is [TS]

  sure 11 of the rules that I was brought [TS]

  up in when i started doing theater was [TS]

  that a playwright never direct his own [TS]

  work because you need to be able to [TS]

  watch and you can't watch when you're [TS]

  trying to tell people how to do it the [TS]

  way you want it to be done because maybe [TS]

  the way you want it to be done might not [TS]

  work and so you know so that bothered me [TS]

  so when I watched the second time was [TS]

  like and you know that's why [TS]

  ok ok but yeah I i did like so much of [TS]

  it so so yeah that the things I didn't [TS]

  like pissed me off and the thing I [TS]

  really liked made the things I didn't [TS]

  like piss me off even more [TS]

  it's a strange strange moving it is [TS]

  unlike any other movie I've ever seen it [TS]

  is a weird thing its I mean I like it [TS]

  but I think I like it more as a puzzle [TS]

  but as a movie or a story yes [TS]

  yeah yeah it's really liked puzzles I [TS]

  like puzzles [TS]

  yeah oh yeah yeah I think that's right [TS]

  as i watch it i'm watching it to kind of [TS]

  have that experience of whether it's [TS]

  like replaying a game or you know [TS]

  whatever whatever it's like not quite [TS]

  watching a movie it's like experiencing [TS]

  the mystification and trying to figure [TS]

  out what i'm missing and and I it's not [TS]

  the same as watching other favorite [TS]

  movies it's more like yeah I'm gonna do [TS]

  another crossword puzzle [TS]

  so what have we learned about time [TS]

  travel movies guys by watching these [TS]

  three movies are very different takes on [TS]

  time travel did we learn that we have [TS]

  other movies that we like better about [TS]

  time travel that way i mean i don't know [TS]

  i like i love primer but I I think we [TS]

  learned that these three movies that we [TS]

  talked about even though they seem to [TS]

  have some kind of unifying theme and [TS]

  time travel don't 3-parachute there are [TS]

  three very different movies that share [TS]

  almost nothing in common except the [TS]

  general idea of time with mr Bruce [TS]

  Willis movies not even that except the [TS]

  time-travel screws you up [TS]

  time travel does screw you up in all [TS]

  three of them know that's what that's [TS]

  true actually [TS]

  bad either too many pallets don't [TS]

  traveling at I'm virus research screwed [TS]

  us up and throw monkeys time travel is [TS]

  fine [TS]

  that wasn't a problem what screwed up [TS]

  Bruce Willis right he makes him drool [TS]

  like a large amount of drool always [TS]

  drills that scenario work it out cg [TS]

  afterwards simple Shepherd screwed up [TS]

  Bruce Willis now and where there's the [TS]

  David Addison movie I watched that I [TS]

  would watch them just David Addison [TS]

  really yeah yeah i think it was a [TS]

  chemistry thing now the Charles rocket [TS]

  is dead i'm not sure they can do that [TS]

  but if you like David medicine so much [TS]

  go listen to Bruce Willis's harmonica [TS]

  album i own a return of Brunei how ya on [TS]

  cassette I see you [TS]

  wow that was weak [TS]

  all right do we have before before we go [TS]

  I wanted to ask all you guys since we're [TS]

  talking about time travel you have a [TS]

  preferred you know a favorite time [TS]

  travel movie that that you'd like to [TS]

  mention here before we go I think [TS]

  somewhere in time is really sweet [TS]

  somewhere in time is lovely and the book [TS]

  did time return that it's based on a [TS]

  richard matheson very good i was on [TS]

  Mackinac Island last weekend and I saw [TS]

  the location they used for the coin shop [TS]

  which I thought was weird because they [TS]

  also used the hotel del coronado in san [TS]

  diego for more action movie and I was in [TS]

  two places are nowhere near each other [TS]

  not even close and believe it or not [TS]

  it's being turned into a musical as we [TS]

  speak [TS]

  Oh over for the stage we already [TS]

  mentioned back to the future but i think [TS]

  it's you know that's that's my go-to [TS]

  time travel movie first the movie that's [TS]

  just so successful and so many levels [TS]

  and just handles time travel like it's [TS]

  nothing like that like they can get that [TS]

  movie just does everything right and [TS]

  just casual and breezy time-travel sure [TS]

  always the whole movie on and we'll just [TS]

  have funny jokes and interesting [TS]

  situations and we'll just do everything [TS]

  we can do with it thats equals less so [TS]

  of course but that I think it's probably [TS]

  my favorite time probably it's my second [TS]

  favorite time travel movie my favorite [TS]

  time travel movie and calling a [TS]

  time-travel i agree is will I pre defend [TS]

  is a bit of a stretch but i'm going to [TS]

  go with groundhog day [TS]

  yeah that's close that's close deadline [TS]

  a definitely different kind of movie [TS]

  there but higher degree of difficulty me [TS]

  yeah yeah that's like the ground today [TS]

  is like transcendent [TS]

  right yeah i would go with grand hog day [TS]

  in Back to the Future back and forth and [TS]

  then the movie that hasn't been made yet [TS]

  that i would love to see how I saw in [TS]

  the past from the future [TS]

  there you go this will make them more [TS]

  and very happy [TS]

  it's Connie Willis's to say nothing of [TS]

  the dog [TS]

  oh yeah that would be at that that's not [TS]

  a fun book that's the nice part is that [TS]

  is delightful i would like somebody to [TS]

  make a movie out of Robert highlands all [TS]

  you zombies but very little happens that [TS]

  isn't just plot its pile of owen [TS]

  speaking of books time and again by Jack [TS]

  Finney which I think jon stewart bought [TS]

  the rights to years and years ago before [TS]

  the daily show and then hasn't done [TS]

  anything with bastard Tony did you have [TS]

  a design star trek for counters at a [TS]

  time travel movie or just a whale movie [TS]

  that has time-travel payment [TS]

  well it is a movie about whales that has [TS]

  time travel in it like that movie it's [TS]

  mostly a whale vehicle that's an itch I [TS]

  you know I'm the wikipedia page on Whale [TS]

  movies is woefully incomplete compared [TS]

  to the wikipedia page on the time-travel [TS]

  movies get on it shut in citation needed [TS]

  he's at work haha blackfish currently in [TS]

  theaters you know that the book the time [TS]

  traveler's wife that's good time travel [TS]

  yes but not the movie know the movies [TS]

  terrible time travel put the book is [TS]

  good time for hope it's good times roll [TS]

  well my favorite time travel movies [TS]

  primer so yeah yeah mine too [TS]

  wow I can't believe you know I'd the [TS]

  most time travel it is the most tribe [TS]

  travel of any touch [TS]

  yeah you have one more energy hold the [TS]

  board had too much stuff diluting the [TS]

  time-travel primer is the answer [TS]

  rumors like that you want all time [TS]

  travel this is it is you're getting it [TS]

  you turn that you don't like it so much [TS]

  if I discovered time travel [TS]

  I would do a lot of things but the very [TS]

  first thing i do would be go back in [TS]

  time and not watch primer for that you [TS]

  can unwatchable yet depending on which a [TS]

  continuity you would get really going to [TS]

  make sure that the wax their gets back [TS]

  in the bus so what you do is you drugged [TS]

  you drugged the lex there before he [TS]

  watched the movie take the movie and and [TS]

  break it right if it was a digital copy [TS]

  just destroy all the digital devices in [TS]

  your house [TS]

  Lex in order for that to happen some Lex [TS]

  has to see primer that's the problem [TS]

  damn best you the best you can do is not [TS]

  be that lets tribe that's the thing [TS]

  about the movie is like a can't have [TS]

  darkest timeline primer can't help but [TS]

  follow a character or a set of [TS]

  characters and they get the privilege [TS]

  point of view when in reality there is [TS]

  no privilege for the third there is no [TS]

  hit you know privilege frame of [TS]

  reference like all of those versions of [TS]

  a baron are equally important in the [TS]

  same and just be great cameras following [TS]

  this one we think it's okay for him to [TS]

  drugs other one so in the reality Lex [TS]

  wants to go back and not watch that [TS]

  movie you think that's okay because [TS]

  you're thinking respect perspective of [TS]

  you but you are also the other person [TS]

  who is seeing the movie so you want to [TS]

  see yourself you're not see or not see [TS]

  exactly he's excited for this new movies [TS]

  heard his first i'll talk about so [TS]

  there's no you're not saving anybody for [TS]

  anything I think what sold me on primer [TS]

  was like my fourth or fifth viewing when [TS]

  I realized early on that the life was [TS]

  complaining about rats in the walls [TS]

  oh yeah and that's the drugged yeah [TS]

  whichever of that drug geriatric that [TS]

  was on your fourth viewing you should [TS]

  definitely consult the chart [TS]

  yeah that was the one I was gonna say it [TS]

  was literally on this movie and then I [TS]

  got in the first run River significant [TS]

  have heard that it's a grower you know [TS]

  you gotta watch it four or five times [TS]

  before you really start to like it i [TS]

  like that i think on the second time [TS]

  through i got that he was bleeding from [TS]

  his ear not because from that one trip [TS]

  but then like he had done multiple years [TS]

  many trips [TS]

  yeah he was ahead of the other one [TS]

  because he was filling in for himself [TS]

  and it was because otherwise I'm like [TS]

  you're bleeding from your ear and [TS]

  there's like he's looking at how old a [TS]

  lot of lovin it's like no we should do [TS]

  like a couple more runs to make more [TS]

  money on the stock market it's like [TS]

  there's blood coming from your brain on [TS]

  to this time it's a problem and [TS]

  originally they were saying well we [TS]

  could just win the lottery [TS]

  well I'll take until Saturday yeah guys [TS]

  this isn't safe this place to get a time [TS]

  machine also get really impatient [TS]

  yeah yeah that's what I the character [TS]

  arc i really do like when they start off [TS]

  very cautious and then throw that out [TS]

  screw it so quickly that i like the fact [TS]

  they throw it over the idea of like [TS]

  punching the Boston the fakes and then [TS]

  going back and not have [TS]

  done it like a concept like that'sthat's [TS]

  the impetus like that's where the idea [TS]

  gets out there and and the motivation is [TS]

  so petty and silly but part of that is [TS]

  the scientific thing we go [TS]

  well can we do this maybe well well can [TS]

  I do that what if there were now two of [TS]

  me can i duplicate myself and the whole [TS]

  that I like when that when they get the [TS]

  cell phone and they have to like debate [TS]

  how much is the technology of cellphone [TS]

  networks before we like I don't know how [TS]

  they worked you know how they worked out [TS]

  real that's real that's a good see [TS]

  that's unbelievable engineer Eddie and I [TS]

  think it's really bring my phone and his [TS]

  phone [TS]

  well I guess this is how it works maybe [TS]

  I like there'll be saving money can we [TS]

  use the freon known to hit did you cut [TS]

  anything at ya know one of my [TS]

  discoveries when I looked at that chart [TS]

  for the first time was the idea that [TS]

  primer takes place like over like I [TS]

  think five days [TS]

  yes it's like ground it's like Groundhog [TS]

  Day underground for years or whatever [TS]

  yeah I am troubled i have trouble [TS]

  processing that even for like an [TS]

  80-minute movie it it feels like it's [TS]

  taking place over a much larger haha [TS]

  well it's only five like chronological [TS]

  days but they go three and a half days [TS]

  past they spent many days awake again [TS]

  the first time they use the failsafe [TS]

  there only three and a half days in but [TS]

  now they're starting over right when [TS]

  they travel a long way they can't sleep [TS]

  in the box right so that's one of the [TS]

  reasons they're all frazzled when they [TS]

  get out and there's that and there's the [TS]

  cute line like oh I'm hungry cuz i have [TS]

  meat two ladies I think that's the best [TS]

  line in the movie that's probably the [TS]

  best of the best time travel i never [TS]

  knew we because it's not in the movie [TS]

  with lots of jokes and one-liners and [TS]

  not even very community community seems [TS]

  that when just kind of lands right in [TS]

  the middle like hey I haven't even said [TS]

  it wrong and i haven't eaten since later [TS]

  this afternoon [TS]

  yeah delivered delivered in that same on [TS]

  the tone is everything else that's why [TS]

  it works about this is a movie this [TS]

  would actually benefit from a remake [TS]

  can you imagine like a fancy glossy [TS]

  remake of this by a director who with an [TS]

  hour-long car chase right at the end [TS]

  no not like that but just like done [TS]

  night done more nicely and you could do [TS]

  more stuff like you could further [TS]

  explore things in a more coherent way [TS]

  you know somebody you wouldn't even need [TS]

  a big remake I think somebody could take [TS]

  digital video cameras and their friends [TS]

  and make me make this movie we didn't [TS]

  make it better if shane carruth just [TS]

  come forward in time to now the team i [TS]

  could have made an amazing movie for [TS]

  7,000 audio doesn't work just like [TS]

  another track it's all day no you know i [TS]

  have an iphone [TS]

  take the script and make a perfectly [TS]

  adequate movie yes [TS]

  yeah yeah nine years later I'm gonna [TS]

  really love this movie the 30th time I [TS]

  see ya [TS]

  it gets better every time it does it [TS]

  does it but you might not like it [TS]

  let's just watch it like 20 more times [TS]

  and you'll be there with us if I'm not [TS]

  seeing any remix by the way it's it's [TS]

  the Stockholm Syndrome of time tracking [TS]

  it is you see the rate we're going to [TS]

  recite all the dialogue and still not be [TS]

  able to explain what because that's when [TS]

  it was really sinks in that yeah I don't [TS]

  know they were they were afraid that [TS]

  like the studio was afraid that like [TS]

  people wouldn't understand twelve [TS]

  Monkeys so I don't think it's not that [TS]

  was like there you go home yeah you can [TS]

  you imagine a studio ever letting his [TS]

  movie out that last audience for 12 [TS]

  monkeys did really poorly and people [TS]

  didn't understand it and it was like [TS]

  they were basically wanted to like have [TS]

  terry gilliam go back and like change a [TS]

  bunch of stuff that we shoot Stephanie [TS]

  he said he wasn't going to and you know [TS]

  and then it kind of did okay but yeah [TS]

  but yeah but yeah that no one's gonna [TS]

  give this guy money to do a primer 12 [TS]

  monkeys came out a year after pulp [TS]

  fiction and I really peg pulp fiction as [TS]

  the the moment where everybody realized [TS]

  that telling stories out of order was [TS]

  cool and since then there's been a flood [TS]

  of them so that was very early on and I [TS]

  think you know that's why they were [TS]

  afraid people are going to not [TS]

  understand it's not linear ho [TS]

  but not everyone is quentin tarantino [TS]

  unfortunately no well that's true i like [TS]

  when turn you know but it's probably [TS]

  good that everybody isn't it yeah i [TS]

  would think about yeah what everybody's [TS]

  forgetting my good heat but he made it [TS]

  look so easy like you shoot things out [TS]

  of sequence and it all comes together [TS]

  and satisfying way if the only movies [TS]

  you can take your kids were two are [TS]

  rated that would get a fast right you [TS]

  know is a Quentin Tarantino Reggie kids [TS]

  with quentin tarantino scooby-doo man [TS]

  I'd see that he's probably down so much [TS]

  energy stuff g-rated stuff that he's [TS]

  obsessed with but quite would put [TS]

  himself in a shaggy and you don't ya [TS]

  we'll leave that for another podcast [TS]

  where we maybe we draft directors and [TS]

  assign them bizarre movies I don't know [TS]

  there's there's there's a topic there [TS]

  somewhere but we should we should step [TS]

  out of the time machine and get on with [TS]

  our lives are actually no I think the [TS]

  machine is warmed up so we can all enter [TS]

  the box and and exit at the beginning of [TS]

  the podcast but before we step inside [TS]

  the time machine I want to thank my [TS]

  guests for being here [TS]

  Tony sindelar thank you for watching [TS]

  movies and coming and talking about them [TS]

  it was my pleasure David lure always [TS]

  nice to have you on [TS]

  thank you very much always nice to be [TS]

  here Monty I'm glad there's somebody who [TS]

  likes primer glad I could help [TS]

  it's takes ever being on my side [TS]

  Lex Friedman thank you for being on it's [TS]

  not always nice to have you on the [TS]

  uncomfortable it was a pleasure except [TS]

  for the part where i watch primer yeah i [TS]

  got two and three in bed and John [TS]

  siracusa thank you for being here too i [TS]

  really like primer to is just not very [TS]

  very very fit no problem is probably [TS]

  number three and it has some issues [TS]

  there's no doubt about it i love it [TS]

  anyway but yeah there's plenty of issues [TS]

  and for everybody here at the [TS]

  uncomfortable I've been your host Jason [TS]

  snow [TS]

  thanks for listening we'll see you next [TS]

  time [TS]

  we're back on the uncomfortable i'm your [TS]

  host Jason snow and tonight we're going [TS]

  to be talking about time travel movies [TS]

  but I have a confession to make [TS]

  what you're listening to is timeline be [TS]

  this podcast we already did the podcast [TS]

  and then we entered a time-travel box [TS]

  traveled back a little more than an hour [TS]

  and are now emerging from the beginning [TS]

  I know [TS]