Hello Internet

H.I. #84: Sloppy Buns


  let's descend into prayer for this

  podcast dear podcast gods please forgive

  the sins we've committed over the last

  half-hour and let this episode actually

  make it to air amen amen

  it seems Brady that Trafalgar Square is

  doubling down on their policy of no fun

  big time I was there the other day

  mm-hmm and you know how you're not

  allowed on the lines and you said there

  was like some guard right well now the

  whole lion area at the bottom of

  Nelson's column had like this like black

  and yellow crime scene esque tape around

  it so you couldn't even get to within

  touching distance of the Lions yet alone

  climb on them it was like all

  quarantined there was no water in the

  fountains so there was no fun to be had

  in the fountains seriously it was crazy

  it was the least fun place in all of the

  UK except when you talked about

  Trafalgar Square and you were dissing it

  and you were quite right to be dissing

  it you did leave out Nelson's column

  itself which i think is one of the great

  sites of London and that is still a

  reason to go to Trafalgar Square and I

  do still love that I guess but it

  doesn't help that Nelson's column is now

  in the center of this no fun zone

  yeah and on one side you have Trafalgar

  Square which used to be fun and on the

  other side you just have a massive

  traffic intersection yeah it needs a

  reason to be a fun place to go but you

  sent me this photograph of the square

  crime scene off yeah it is hard to

  express how enraged that made me because

  the thing I was aware of when I was

  there the first time and saw those signs

  about don't climb on the Lions the thing

  that a bunch of people were doing which

  the guard seemed totally okay on is

  there's two positions to photograph

  yourself with the Lions at Trafalgar


  there is the risky one for the

  adventurous types which is to climb up

  on to the actual back of the lion and

  get a photograph there yeah but lots of

  families take a kind of classic

  Trafalgar Square photo which is a dad

  will raise up their kids onto the paws

  of the lion so like there's this

  relatively low area between

  the two pause of each of the Lions and

  every family loves to pack their kids in

  between the paws and take photographs of

  that it's a super cute photo right it's

  great and it seemed like that was okay

  with the guards they weren't stopping

  anybody from doing that it was just

  going on the backs of the Lions but now

  like you said they've put this tape

  around the whole thing so that you can't

  touch the Lions you certainly can't put

  people between the paws of the Lions

  it's unbelievable again it makes me so

  angry I could just I don't know it well

  before you go off on one there are two

  possible explanations for this that have

  come to mind mm-hmm the first and the

  one that I hope is true but is by far

  the least likely is that in a hallow

  internet wikipedia style lockdown moment

  the sheer act of us talking about a

  topic has caused such nuisance making by

  tims that the authorities have had no

  choice but to essentially lock down the

  Lions which would amuse me no end but

  clearly is not the case the second and

  more likely scenario is that some kind

  of work is going on some kind of

  preparation maybe they were having to do

  something to to concrete up above and

  they didn't want things falling down

  onto people from Lord Nelson or they

  were prepping something I mean the fact

  the fountains are empty as well tells me

  that maybe they're doing though you know

  once or twice a year

  spring clean so I think the most likely

  scenario is that this was a temporary

  measure but nevertheless it would be fun

  if it was it was like a Wikipedia style

  page lock there and that would cause

  again we would never promote Wikipedia

  vandalism that's the wrong thing to do

  and of course we never promote social

  disobedience on this podcast that would

  be wrong to do to promote people to go

  and sit on the backs of the Lions to

  retweet people doing that kind of thing

  that would be wrong on many levels but

  neither of us would ever do such a thing

  and as we've said that the perfect storm

  of the two is to go into the Wikipedia

  page for Trafalgar Square and fill it

  with photos of a city on the line yeah

  we would never encourage that but I'm

  always suspicious about this because my

  personal experience with

  bureaucracies and this kind of structure

  is there's like a crank shift that only

  turns in one direction and the direction

  that it turns is more regulations more

  rules and less fun and that it's

  essentially impossible to turn that back

  in the other direction and so yeah even

  if this is for building works let's say

  let's say is the best case scenario that

  go we just want to polish up the liens

  right and I can still imagine them

  thinking after a little bit like hey you

  know what this square is way easier to


  once we wall off the whole central

  column like now we don't have to worry

  about anything and then some lawyer

  would say hey you know what now you

  don't have to worry about people

  climbing up on Nelson's column not even

  on the liens there's just like a

  stair-step thing that you can climb up

  on why don't we just leave it up it's

  already been up for a couple of weeks

  and everything's been fine so that

  that's my fear it's like I can just feel

  the machinery of desaturating the world

  turning another tick yeah

  that's my worry my favorite example of

  fun being taken away because of safety

  won't mean a tremendous amount to you

  because you have no idea how the game of

  Australian rules football works but you

  know it's like an oblong like egg-shaped

  bowl that people kick and catch and do

  things like that with and it was a great

  tradition at Australian rules football

  games that at the end of the game when

  the final siren went and after the

  players had left the field they would

  sound the siren again about five or ten

  minutes later and everyone could run out

  onto the field with the balls they'd

  brought along themselves and like just

  to run around on the field and kick the

  ball and you could like try and kick for

  the goals and pretend to be a hero and

  kick the ball through the goals that

  your heroes had just been doing wow that

  sounds great it was great fun and you'd

  have two or three thousand people all

  over the field each having their own

  little games kicking it back and forward

  the probability of walking off that

  field without getting hit in the face by

  a football it was virtually zero of

  course no guarantee that at least once

  you would get hit by a ball you didn't

  see coming because it was just like a

  frenzy of balls in the air

  but it was so much fun you know you'd

  line up the girls and try and kick a

  goal from an angle you just saw your

  heroes doing it and then eventually so

  many people were complaining about

  getting hurt by getting hit by balls in

  the head or like you know twisting their

  ankle that eventually they banned it and

  like it went away and it was one of the

  great quaint traditions of Australian

  sport that all the kids were allowed to

  do this after a big professional game of

  sport but gone now gone tour the

  professionalism and health and safety

  gone mad I tell you

  it's not even health and safety gone mad

  it's there's a certain kind of I think

  undue weight that boredom and

  seriousness and safety always have in

  conversations because it ends up being

  really hard to argue for the intangible

  values like fun over the tangible thing

  like someone could hurt themselves no

  matter how small the probability of

  someone could hurt themselves or a thing

  could be dangerous is it's like I feel

  like any possibility of that in all

  conversations in organizations around

  anything like it it's always biased

  toward this direction that's why I find

  it really frustrating you know now it's

  a long time ago but I was always hugely

  frustrated when I was a teacher to

  discover how many of the things that I

  thought were awesome cool fun things

  that my teachers had done when I was a

  kid in the science lab were totally off

  limits Oh like we can't do any of that

  like are you crazy you can't have a kid

  touch a Van de Graaff generator what if

  they have a heart condition we don't

  know about it's like has this ever

  happened in the history of ever that a

  kids died from a heart attack from

  touching a Van de Graaff generator and

  they're like it could happen it's the

  case of course it could happen but like

  how we have to weigh these things

  they're like mmm no it could happen

  we're not gonna do that like only things

  that are totally safe oh my god it

  really bothers me I think that's why the

  Trafalgar Square thing gets right at the

  heart of me just to top it off I think

  this is the funniest thing I have seen

  which is related to Trafalgar Square

  being the no fun zone just mere hours

  ago on the hello internet subreddit

  someone posted a video of themselves in

  Trafalgar Square a couple of years ago

  doing some juggling and the guards at

  Trafalgar Square come over and tell him

  the juggling

  not allowed in Trafalgar Square it looks

  like this guy was putting together one

  of those videos where he's doing

  juggling in various spots all over the

  world he says in the description that

  like he'd traveled to all of these

  various places and there was only one

  spot in the whole world where they told


  oh sorry you're not allowed to juggle

  and that was Trafalgar Square yeah I

  mean to be fair that is also probably

  one of the prime spot where like you

  know professional jugglers try and bust

  for twenty minutes and make a bit of

  money if there was one place where I

  thought you would get cracked down on

  for juggling it actually would be

  Trafalgar Square

  that's like busker central isn't it and

  they're like very fine-tuned to people

  doing unauthorized busking they're

  busking I can totally understand

  well juggling is a busker classic as

  well it's not busking if you don't have

  a like a sad poppers hat in front of you

  with some coins that you placed inside

  of it to get the thing going they

  clearly thought that's what he was

  starting to do I need to watch the video

  I don't get me wrong I like a good

  juggle do you like a good juggle I'm a

  very good juggler oh yeah

  yeah how many balls can you juggle the

  ones Brady well I'm not very good at

  four but I'm very good at three and I

  can do like behind my back and tricks

  and under my legs and stuff well I look

  forward to the brady juggling roadshow

  i can't believe you haven't been

  subjected to it yet to be honest you

  know what I'm surprised I haven't been

  subjected to it yet either but I have a

  feeling like the next time we see each

  other in person there's gonna be some

  juggling if there's like middle kids

  that are bored sometimes my wife will

  say just do a bit of juggling for them

  just to cheer them up and I'd like it's

  them all excited to say that feels very

  uncle Brady do you pull coins from

  behind their ears as well do you do that

  do you take their noses now I'm a bit

  more like edgy than that I tell you what

  a couple more things though coming back

  to the Lions hmm because I was reading

  about why they banned people going on

  the Lions and I read quite a bit about

  this and how they were like structural

  problems they did like surveys of the

  Lions and found that people were

  starting to wear them away and stuff of

  course yeah yeah but like fix them then

  because this is part of the experience

  it's like saying we're gonna ban people

  from throwing coins into the Trevi

  Fountain because occasionally coins hit

  the stonework and cause little chips

  right well yeah and the Trevi Fountain

  is old and famous and important and

  shouldn't be chipped but it's way more

  important that you're there to throw

  coins into it so this kind of damage and

  wear and tear

  is part of the story of the lines so if

  they get worn away and you've got to

  give one of them you know a bit of back

  surgery or reinforce one or do some work

  on them okay do the work but you've got

  to take the hit you know I'm with you

  100% and I think this is another example

  of where there's an easy argument to

  make which like with the pigeons as well

  it's like you can put a number on how

  much damage does pigeon poo cause in

  Trafalgar Square every year in terms of

  dollars right you can say like it costs

  us X amount to clean this thing every

  year you can also say oh the Lions if we

  need to strengthen up the backs every

  decade it's gonna cost us X amount and

  like that is a real clear bureaucratic

  argument but what it just feel like is

  the intangible thing on the other side

  is but you know this is why people come

  here if you have to have touristy

  interesting things for people to do and

  if you continually crank this dial of

  having more and more of them more and

  more off limits like what is the point

  of all of this it's like yes I'm sure it

  costs a lot of money to clean up all the

  pigeon poo in Trafalgar Square but

  people come from the world over to see

  the pigeons and to go on the backs of

  the Lions and surely hundreds of

  thousands of tourists a year pay through

  tax revenue and buying stuff and

  supporting the local economy like they

  pay for that upkeep like there's no way

  that it doesn't but I feel like somehow

  the preservationist side and the cost

  side of the argument is just the de

  facto winner and it's it's like

  impossible to try to be on the side of

  these intangible things and I feel like

  I got again I'm totally with you on this

  it's like hey look guess what these

  lions being outside wears them away

  everything erodes over time you're going

  to have to update them anyway

  why not update them more frequently and

  also let people enjoy them and we could

  just put the whole thing inside a

  gigantic plastic box right and there's I

  go well there's also sun damage getting

  through that box so we can put it in a

  gigantic opaque box right all around

  your vulgar square and nobody is allowed

  in is like is that what you want now

  it'll last a really long time right but

  nobody gets to appreciate it like that

  feels like the logical conclusion of


  sends up well that wouldn't be good with

  a big black box around Trafalgar Square

  everybody wants that nobody wants that

  except someone going like well you know

  it would save us a lot of money every

  year on meeting its cost like yeah I'm

  sure it would I'm sure it goddamn would

  it's fine but like the last thing I just

  want to mention about this is the

  juggling guy reminded me of something

  that I haven't thought about in years

  but as soon as I saw his video I was

  like oh yeah I forgot about this event

  so this is something like maybe 7 years

  ago now my wife and I thought that we

  might be leaving London permanently we

  weren't sure this is the time of my life

  where I sort of ended up living in

  Hawaii for a little bit but we were

  thinking there's a good possibility that

  we're leaving London and we won't come

  back obviously that didn't happen but we

  thought that at the time and now the

  place where my wife and I met each other

  in person for the first time was

  Trafalgar Square if you are standing at

  the National Gallery and you are looking

  toward Nelson's column we actually met

  right beneath the paws of one of those

  lions and it'd be the lion on the left

  hand side that is where we met for the

  first time and so when we were leaving

  London we thought you know what might be

  nice is let's take some really nice

  photographs of ourselves in Trafalgar

  Square as just like a little memory and

  momento of here's a city that we really

  like and here's the place that we met so

  my wife and I we got dressed up all nice

  and fancy my wife had a bunch of very

  high-end photography gear and we got up

  super early in the morning and we went

  out to Trafalgar Square and we thought

  okay we're gonna take some photographs

  of ourselves at sunrise right like we

  get there there is nobody in Trafalgar

  Square the place is totally empty it's

  just my wife and I and she sets up her

  camera on the tripod so that we can take

  some pictures of us in various locations

  and we're there for mere minutes before

  out of nowhere a guard comes along and

  tells us that we're not allowed to be

  taking these pictures in Trafalgar

  Square it's like are you serious man

  like is this is this something that's

  really happening right now he goes yeah

  well you're not allowed to do commercial

  photography like okay but we're taking

  pictures of ourselves

  for us lives like this isn't commercial

  photography look what are you talking

  about there goes uh well you have a

  tripod with that camera so it must be

  commercial photography there's no

  tripods allowed in Trafalgar Square for

  taking photographs it's one of these

  things where it's just so crazy making

  you feel like you're in this bizarro

  moment of weight like presumably you

  don't want tripods in Trafalgar Square

  because they take up a lot of space and

  there's a lot of people here but there's

  only three humans in the world in

  Trafalgar Square right now it's like my

  wife myself and this guy telling us that

  we're not allowed to take these pictures

  it was just like this incredibly

  frustrating back-and-forth where we're

  trying to convince this guy like we're

  not taking commercial photographs and

  he's like well why are you dressed up

  all nice and like he just wouldn't let

  it go and he's like now you can't do

  this you got to go you got to get out of

  here and not take these nice uh memento

  photographs of yourself bothering no one

  at 6:00 a.m. or whatever in Trafalgar

  Square how did that end did you walk

  away with the tie between your legs or

  did you stand up for your rights and

  sock him once I didn't punch him if

  that's what you're saying all right well

  here's an interesting thing which is

  that we knew in advance that Trafalgar

  Square and there's one other place in

  the UK which have really strange rules

  around photography inside of them

  they're super harsh on commercial

  photography and getting filming rights

  and all the rest of this yeah because

  it's a revenue stream yeah and it's like

  again also for doing like filming stuff

  there it makes total sense because you

  see movies and TV shows being filmed in

  Trafalgar Square and they have to close

  the whole place down it's like yeah of

  course that makes sense because it's a

  big hassle like it takes up the square

  bla bla bla but I think it's a very big

  difference between that kind of thing

  and to people who are just like no we're

  taking photographs for ourselves like we

  don't have a crew here there's just two

  people and we've come at a time that's

  bothering no one the problem is you two

  is so damn good-looking he probably

  thought you were both models yes I'm

  sure that is precisely what it was he's

  like oh look at these amazingly

  good-looking people they must be models

  but so all we did was like the dude was

  super frustrating and we went up the

  staircase and sort of by the National

  Gallery and just waited for a little bit

  he wandered around and then seemed to

  disappear from somewhere so he just went

  back out and took a bunch of photos and

  then left it's just it's just like what

  the lion is like okay sure mr. guard

  like I know you're gonna stand here

  you're gonna take the camera if

  leave it on the tripod and try to take

  some pictures of ourselves so I'm just

  gonna wait until you're further away and

  out of eyesight and then just do it

  again and then leave but it's like yeah

  Jeff allgor square no fun zone for a

  long time and the ratchet is only

  getting turned up the whole professional

  photography thing also it must be

  getting just impossible to police

  because any amateur these days you know

  has a tripod and a posh camera and a

  nice lens but also you could be there

  just clowning around on your iPhone and

  you could be some youtuber making your

  video that's gonna get watched by 30

  million people how they're policing that

  I've got no idea it doesn't make any

  sense I think especially with YouTube

  the whole notion of commercial is very

  strange because I took some videos of

  the signs in Trafalgar Square and I put

  that up on my second channel and the

  second channel does have ads that run on

  that video so like was I commercially

  filming in Trafalgar Square on my iPhone

  it's like I guess by have a letter of

  the law I was but by no reasonable

  person's definition would you say oh

  that was a commercial filming operation

  lock him up lock him up it is very funny

  because that you also see when I was

  there on that day I did see a bunch of

  people with what I think of as like the

  the KC nice tat filming set up where

  they have a very impressive looking

  canon camera with a little road

  microphone attachment on the top and the

  gorilla pod stand to hold it in their

  hands and it is it's this funny thing of

  like is that just some kid filming stuff

  for himself right or is that a vlogger

  with millions and millions of

  subscribers like you don't know and then

  is that a commercial operation or not it

  really is crazy and it's unbelievable

  and it's frustrating

  I was actually alerted to this situation

  by a couple of Tim's who I think had go

  onto the square they're from San

  Francisco but they were holidaying in

  London I was a married couple and they'd

  gone to the square I think for a little

  bit of gray inspired civil disobedience

  and they obviously saw this roped-off

  area and realized they couldn't get up

  on the lines so they took like a photo

  and posted it on Twitter sort of saying

  look how unfun the no-fun zone is now

  and I saw this and I just happened to be

  on the train on

  my way into London where I had meetings

  that day right near Trafalgar Square and

  I felt so bad I felt like I had to do my

  bit for London and for the UK I didn't

  want them leaving thinking so terribly

  of Trafalgar Square so I did message

  them on Twitter and I said I'll tell you

  what if you're in that same place at six

  o'clock tonight I'll come and say hello

  and let's take a better photo

  so sure enough we went later on and they

  turned up and like we get our own little

  photoshoot and funnily enough I think

  that photoshoot may have been with your

  love lion because as I think about it

  now it was that lion on the left nearest

  the gallery as you look down mm-hmm from

  the gallery so I think we were doing our

  little photo at the grail of life we

  didn't get stopped by the way kudos to

  the first person that goes on to

  Wikipedia and refers to that line as the

  love line right now brady you're just

  encouraging Wikipedia vandalism that we

  don't promote that on the show don't do

  that you wouldn't want to cause but

  could be view problems I don't want to

  tell you that I don't want to tell you

  that you're so good to the tim's brady

  you really are taking photographs in

  Trafalgar Square manufacturing shoes

  getting vinyl records printed you're

  very good to the audience you always put

  me to shame with that no I was writing

  hereby and like they had previously

  posted another picture as well where

  they had been at the San Francisco

  baseball stadium sitting like near where

  I sat when I went as well so they'd been

  goodtimz our like rewarding good Tim

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  gray in the last podcast I talked about

  how traffic responds to ambulances and

  you know people getting out the way of

  ambulances and that caused lots of

  interesting discussion and there was

  lots of legal debate and things like

  that and there's no need to go over all

  that again I think it's been well and

  truly thrashed out on the reddit but one

  thing I said that caused some

  controversy was I referred to the

  drivers of ambulances as ambulance

  drivers mm-hmm and I don't know if you

  have seen some of the reaction this

  course I said at the time that a lot of

  people who work in ambulances listen to

  the podcast and that was proven to be

  true because they all got in touch I

  have seen very much of this as well yes

  and basically that to summarize their

  argument I supposedly have done them a

  disservice by referring to them as

  ambulance drivers as mere ambulance

  drivers because they are trained

  paramedics and they don't take well to

  being called ambulance drivers and I was

  wondering how you felt about this how

  you felt to this admonishment that I

  received it's a funny thing because I

  feel like there is a presumption from

  the people who are paramedics about a

  thing that we're saying which were not

  because when I say something like

  ambulance driver which is the phrase

  that I also used I feel like in my mind

  you can translate that into like a hero

  among men right like like that person is

  doing like awesome cool danger is

  driving down the roads like they're

  going to literally save lives yeah

  they're going in all of these dangerous

  situations there was no suggestion they

  were not trained to do it as well

  not-here is like ambulance driver it

  does not equate to like uber driver like

  dude with a car right who's just doing a

  thing that is not the comparison in my

  mind like I can totally understand from

  the perspective of a paramedic like you

  go through a whole bunch of training and

  then you you have a title that you are a

  paramedic that means a particular thing

  in your mind

  whereas when we're talking about it at

  least in my head it's all kind of mushed

  together where it's like oh yes of


  ambulance drivers and paramedics like

  these are just people who are saving

  people's lives I and they are incredibly

  valuable members of society and they do

  great things we got a lot of feedback

  because I can understand why from the

  perspective of a paramedic they might

  feel like being referred to as an

  ambulance driver is less than what they

  are but that is by no means the feeling

  in at least my head and I presume your

  head when you are discussing what these

  people do well yes

  can I second what gray just said but can

  I also add with all the love in the

  world to those paramedics get off your

  high horse

  whoa because I accept that you have this

  incredible training and knowledge that I

  don't have and I'm so thankful for what

  you do and I think you're heroes and you

  know one day one of you might be leaning

  over me to save my life and I hope

  you're not still angry at me at that

  point and the words he will say is he's

  putting the mask over your face are your

  Brady Haran yeah has this on your high

  horse but no the thing is like yes you

  have all this medical training but at

  that moment in time when you are driving

  the ambulance to me you are an ambulance

  driver and that also is important and

  amazing and well trained and brilliant

  mm-hmm but a person driving an ambulance

  is an ambulance driver kind of like by

  definition even if they've stolen it

  they're an ambulance driver at that

  point in time and if like say someone

  drove into the front wall of my house

  tomorrow and knocked over the wall and I

  was upset at them and I was like here on

  the podcast complaining about it and I

  said oh great gonna believe it like some

  car driver drove into my wall and

  knocked it over yesterday they're not

  gonna call me up and say well actually I

  happen to be a brain surgeon and I'd

  prefer if you'd said a brain surgeon

  drove into

  my world yesterday like yes maybe you

  are a brain surgeon but at the time you

  were driving the car and knocking over

  the wall all you were to me was the

  driver of a car

  likewise when someone is driving an

  ambulance past me at high speed just go

  and save a life at that point in time

  you're an ambulance driver and I think

  it's a fair description of what you are

  and trust me you know if I am out in the

  field making one of my videos and a

  little kid says mommy mommy look at that

  cameraman over there I'm not gonna turn

  around and say excuse me

  I'm a trained journalist and I have

  interview skills and I also do the

  editing and I've also put things

  together and I'm gonna create a lovely

  narrative out of the story I just think

  okay I'm a cameraman at the moment

  oh my god okay a few things I feel like

  I cannot go down this line of reasoning

  with you the thing is I would bet so

  much money in real life that you would

  turn to that kid and be like excuse me I

  am a trained journalist like everything

  I know about you everything about our

  private conversations to me like are all

  arrows pointing in the direction of yes

  Brady would tell that child that he is a

  trained journalist and not really a

  cameraman in that moment that you've got

  that wrong you've got that wrong but

  putting that aside the ambulance driver

  thing okay so if you were in that field

  filming a video about ambulances and

  they let you drive the ambulance would

  you say that you were an ambulance

  driver in that moment no okay you caught

  me out there okay perhaps using the

  notion of someone having stolen the

  ambulance was maybe me taking a little

  bit of dramatic license the amusement of

  our listeners but I do think it is fair

  to call someone who is earning money

  while driving the ambulance an ambulance

  driver and yes they also have an even

  more important role to play but in the

  context of my story mhm

  all that mattered was that their own

  ambulance driver so here's the thing

  that I'm a little bit foggy on so the

  preferred term is paramedic

  I feel like I don't understand very

  clearly the boundaries of this word

  because do paramedics only exist in some

  form of transit like I'm thinking about

  right a paramedic is coming in and

  ambulance where a paramedic is coming in

  a helicopter do paramedics operate

  inside of the hospital or do they

  operate exclusively outside of the

  hospital in transit back to it like I

  don't understand actually very clearly

  where the boundaries of this are you're

  asking me I'm already in trouble for not

  knowing this so you don't ask me okay

  I'm looking at now while I look this up

  I have another question I want to throw

  out there to the paramedics if you're a

  paramedic and you lose your driver's

  license let's say for drink-driving I'm

  assuming you can't now drive the

  ambulance are you still a paramedic if

  you can't drive an ambulance who drives

  the ambulance

  are there any just bespoke ambulance

  drivers you know I Drive the ambulance

  but like I've got nothing about the

  human body like I just get the

  paramedics there to those people even

  exist that's a very interesting question

  I feel like economies tend towards

  specialization I feel like somewhere in

  some country this has to be a clear

  division of labor that there does exist

  someone who is an ambulance driver only

  who's trained on racetracks and like

  pretend villages to be able to drive

  around corners because that seems like a

  very different skill sets from being

  able to stop someone from bleeding to

  death in their kitchen I don't think

  there's necessarily overlap so there

  must be someplace that has this division

  of labor I'm sure we'll find out from

  all of the paramedics well we're not

  gonna find out from the paramedic

  Wikipedia page because that's a little

  bit nebulous I was looking over that too

  and I'm like I'm getting no help from

  your Wikipedia page this is now what I'm

  looking for plays plays plays nuisance

  Tim make the term ambulance driver

  redirect to paramedic Brady you you are

  such a troublemaker it's a thing I have

  to disapprove of greatly in your

  personality so these are the questions

  are there people who are ambulance

  drivers only and do paramedics only

  exist in transit from location our

  paramedics do they not exist inside of a

  hospital I feel like this is this is

  what we need to know please go to the

  reddit's and have a big angry discussion

  about it I'm feeling a bit bad about

  this Wikipedia thing I'll tell you what

  if you are a Wikipedia mischief-maker

  not only are you very naughty and we


  proof of that but I hope at least once a

  year you make a donation to the wiki

  foundation to support them because like

  Wikipedia is pretty important it's one

  of the few things that like when I get

  pestered about donations on the Internet

  I will sometimes say you know what I

  like Wikipedia I'm gonna check him a few

  bucks that is the same in our household

  because yes it is Wikipedia it's super

  fun to mess with and it is also maybe

  one of the most important things for

  civilization that has emerged in the

  past 20 years it's on both sides of

  those scales support your local

  Wikipedia people was that an NPR joke I

  don't know what that was I feel like

  I've heard that phrase but I wasn't

  intentionally making an NPR joke because

  like this is something that's been on my

  mind lately and you've just brought it

  up by accident but I don't listen to NPR

  radio because I live in England right

  but I do listen to lots of NPR podcasts

  an NPR podcasts are obviously supported

  through like the NPR pot of money and I

  think they've gotten themselves into

  this weird antiquated situation now

  where there's obviously some turf war

  going on and there's a lot of politics

  involved because whenever you're

  listening to the podcasts they always

  say if you want to support the podcast

  and give money so we can keep making

  this excellent podcast right go to your

  local radio station and give them money

  because some of that money will find its

  way here and that's what keeps the

  podcast guy and I understand the

  situation that has come about and why

  this has happened but I think at some

  stage in PR are gonna have to say do you

  know are like our podcasts are really

  popular now and people want to give them

  money but they don't want to do this

  like indirect weird thing where they

  have to go to their radio station and

  prop up the radio station yeah let's

  keep getting their podcast yeah so I

  think NPR needs to soon revisit this

  situation where their podcasts are

  saying hey go to your local radio

  station and give them money I understand

  the politics I can see what's happened

  as old media versus new media thing

  going on within the one organization but

  it's very strange to me and it's

  starting to sound strange that makes no

  sense to me so you're listening to an

  NPR podcast yeah so I'm listening to it

  and they say if you like this and you

  want to give us money here's what you do

  go to your local NPR radio station and

  give them money okay so I am Joe Johnson

  listening in Boise Idaho and I like a

  podcast from Washington about about

  Washington politics or something Yeah

  right it's not about Boise it's some NPR

  podcast broadcast to everybody and yeah

  in theory the thing that I'm supposed to

  do is find Boise radio be qrx 103.2 and

  hand them an envelope full of cash like

  that seems so crazy I don't even

  understand how that mechanism is

  supposed to work that is so weird it's a

  bit like us saying if you like hello

  internet and want to support Brady and

  gray give money to my best friends

  cousins sisters brother cuz I owe him

  money for something I borrowed from him

  six months ago

  and that will really help me out people

  will know I don't do that yeah I would

  never do that they need to set up crowd

  funding for the podcast that seems like

  what they should do and clearly I mean I

  can see what's happened obviously this

  is the huge radio infrastructure which

  is probably crumbling in some way

  because of everyone's listening to

  podcasts instead of radio and the radio

  people are like worried that they're

  gonna cease to exist totally be worried

  they are on the way out and you don't

  need to explain to me that that the

  journalism of the radio stations feeds

  into the podcast I understand all that

  there's a New York Times podcast I

  listen to sometimes and they always say

  hey people always ask how to give money

  the best thing you can do is get a

  subscription to The New York Times

  because that's the journalistic engine

  that keeps this podcast going and again

  that's true but it's that extra layer of

  abstraction that I think makes you

  resistant the New York Times one is at

  least to me a much straighter arrow yes

  this is the parent organization the New

  York Times give us some money to support

  the podcast it's very interesting from a

  big organization perspective of like if

  you want people to give you money how to

  do it I feel like in that situation

  let's say there was a podcast from the

  New York Times I was listening to and

  that I liked and I want to support it

  like I would feel a little bit of a

  weirdness giving to the New York Times

  as a whole because I feel like but I

  want to give it to this exact podcast

  yeah but you can see that the New York

  Times organization wants the money to go

  to the parent organization not to the

  podcast in particular and of course like


  is fungible for an organization like

  that it doesn't really matter

  yeah but I'm thinking like if NPR was

  doing crowdfunding

  I think the institution's instinct would

  be to do the thing that would probably

  get them less money overall which is to

  have one gigantic contribute to NPR fund

  as opposed to setting up a whole bunch

  of contribute to this particular podcast

  funds even if they had some little

  disclaimer like oh you're contributing

  to podcast X and 50% of the revenue that

  goes to podcast X goes to the parent

  organization as well hmm

  like I'd be willing to bet they would

  make more revenue overall by asking for

  donations to particular podcast than to

  the parent organization but also bet

  they would never actually set it up that

  way no probably not

  speaking of big organizations let me

  tell you a funny thing that happened to

  me yesterday I went to my local gym I

  just want to sit in the jacuzzi actually

  so I went along and I sat in the jacuzzi

  because I that's what I wanted all right

  this is what I wanted and where my sort

  of gym is is sort of connected to this

  posh hotel and guests of the posh hotel

  used the same facility and this hotel

  always hosts like away days and weddings

  and stuff like that right so I was

  sitting in the jacuzzi for probably half

  an hour and there was obviously this big

  away day happening at the hotel they

  were all men all these men who were at

  this away day for this business came and

  sat in the jacuzzi around me so there

  was like probably eight of us and the

  seven of them worked for this business

  and they were talking about their work

  and then a few of them got out and then

  a couple more came and then a few of

  others got out and a couple more came

  and over the course of half an hour

  probably 16 or 17 people that worked for

  this business set in the jacuzzi with me

  and they spent the whole time talking

  about their work non-stop the politics

  of how bills lazy and isn't pulling his

  weight and this email and their email

  and this report I had to fill out and

  this thing I had to do they never

  stopped talking about their work the

  whole time the whole half hour I was in

  the jacuzzi and it was only at the very

  very end it suddenly occurred to me

  after listening to these people talk

  non-stop about their work for half an

  hour I had no idea what they did or what

  business not one single thing gave away

  what their business was and it made me

  realize how universal people complaining

  about their work is like I even said to

  them at the end guys I've been listening

  to you guys for the last half an hour I

  have no idea what you do like what's

  your business like and they all laughed

  and like they realized like at certain

  points I was like I thought I'd figured

  it out and I was transposing different

  businesses on to what they did they

  could they could have been a bunch of

  journalists seriously they could have

  been they could have been accountants at

  one point I thought they were like

  estate agents and things like that I

  couldn't figure out what they were doing

  listening to them talk for half an hour

  part of it made me miss working because

  they had such comradery and you know but

  another part of me made me realize well

  working in their organizations pretty

  crappy yeah you're always getting sucked

  up into politics

  as soon as you get past maybe five

  people working together it's it's like

  politics starts to happen it's just a

  natural side-effect of the way humans

  are so what was the business I have to

  know now even when they told me I still

  don't know what they did cuz apparently

  they worked in operations for a retail

  organization okay okay yeah so I don't

  know exactly what that means does that

  mean is there like head office for a

  shop I don't know this scenario when I'm

  talking to somebody and I get an answer

  about their job that's what you should

  say your job is when you don't want

  people to ask questions because as soon

  as they said operations for a retail

  organization I just shut up yeah you

  know what that's that's not a bad idea

  I work in digital operations I mean the

  thing I wanted to say when they said

  that was what retail organization then I

  was a stranger and I just basically had

  told these people I've been listening to

  you gossip I would have looked like some

  kind of industrial spy or like

  investigative journalist if I said what

  organization yeah give me names you

  bring out a little waterproof notepad to

  write things down any oh yeah

  interesting I think what's happening

  here is there is like a larger and

  larger portion of the economy which is

  not directly involved in doing the thing

  but is instead involved in managing

  doing the thing yeah and I feel like

  this is why is an incredibly common

  experience to run into people and it's


  everybody seems to be like so what do

  you do exactly

  like I don't understand on making a

  thing you're overseeing people who make

  a thing or you're overseeing departments

  of people who make a thing it just feels

  like the economy leans more towards

  layers of management and I'm not even

  saying that those layers are unnecessary

  like I think as the economy gets more

  complicated it shouldn't be surprised

  that more and more people are involved

  in which you could broadly call like

  management or logistics like that

  becomes more and more vital as a thing

  to do yeah but I do have this let's call

  it like not really great pro-social

  tendency that in these moments when

  somebody gives me an answer like that I

  have a very hard time not like drilling

  down with the person precisely what it

  is that they do it almost always ends up

  in this thing where is like oh if I'm

  meeting with someone on a Friday the

  conversation will bend towards be like

  okay look I still don't understand this

  morning when you went when you went into

  work is like 9:00 a.m. what was the

  thing that you did it's like this line

  of questioning makes people really

  uncomfortable yeah it would have made

  them more uncomfortable because our bare

  legs were touching underwater I could

  see how that definitely encourages a

  little bit of social walk for this I

  love the fact that you're chatting with

  a bunch of other guys in the jacuzzi

  after spying on them for a while that's

  it's like oh I wanted to go out with him

  they were planning their night out

  sounds like they were gonna have a big

  night out though talking about what pub

  they were gonna go to and go out

  drinking and I was like oh yeah that's

  fantastic and then these guys are

  wondering who the hell is this hanger I

  know from the way they were talking

  they'd probably just think I was one of

  them like I didn't think anyone knew who

  anyone was like who is that guy Arden hi

  you must be in I thought you knew who he


  I don't know he seems to fit in you

  could have totally blended right in this

  is like an American Psycho situation

  where none of these guys really know who

  the other guys are anyway so what's it


  this episode of Hello Internet is

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  audible.com slash hello internet to get

  a free audiobook with your 30 day trial

  now audible as always likes for us to

  recommend a book so I recently read a

  book that I can highly recommend and

  it's tribe by Sebastian Junger he's the

  same guy who wrote a perfect storm if

  you ever read that it's a little bit of

  a difficult book to describe but I can

  briefly say that it is a little bit

  about people in war particularly men in

  war and how that affects them it talks

  about some of the difficult things like

  why is it that some soldiers really find

  solace in being in a group in war and

  why they can have difficulty

  reintegrating into society afterwards

  that makes the book sound like it's a

  huge downer but I actually found it a

  fascinating non downer read and it's

  also very short which is the thing that

  I really appreciate in books sometimes

  so if you're looking for a book to try

  maybe something that's a little bit

  different than what you would normally

  do give tribe a try on audible.com so if

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  hello Internet that's a you DIBL EECOM

  slash hello Internet I remember when

  Theresa May the prime minister of the UK

  which is prime minister as I'm speaking

  now I don't know what the situation

  would be with this podcast goes out the

  prime minister who called the snap

  election to consolidate her power as we

  discussed and I couldn't resist

  on election night when it all went wrong

  for her and she lost her majority and it

  must have been one of the less enjoyable

  evenings of her professional career I

  couldn't resist going back to your tweet

  and when the election was first called

  where you just had the Jurassic Park

  meme of clever girl and I remember you

  talking about it on the podcast her you

  talked about what a genius move it was

  people had to vote for her she cornered

  them in such a clever way that they had

  no choice but to vote for her and

  increase her power for those who don't

  know that's not how it played out then

  she went from having a small majority in

  the House of Commons to having no

  majority in the House of Commons how are

  you feeling now are you feeling sheepish

  so I didn't follow the election at all

  between that tweet and then when

  somebody sent me a message about like oh

  there's a coalition government in the UK

  now like as far as on my radar

  like the whole election disappeared and

  then just reappeared several weeks later

  yeah it's interesting and from my

  perspective I have no idea what happened

  in the intermediate time what's happen

  is she's obviously in the minority she

  hasn't got enough votes to get anything

  through okay but what she's doing is

  rather than forming a coalition which is

  what happened a couple of elections ago

  between the Conservatives and the

  Liberal Democrats right what she's

  trying to do as we're speaking now it

  hasn't actually been signed and it's

  causing controversy for some other

  reasons that I won't bore you with but

  what she's trying to do is broker a deal

  with a political party the DUP from

  Northern Ireland mm-hmm who have some

  handful of seats in the Commons but

  they've got just enough seats to give

  her a majority so what she's doing is

  she's trying to broker a deal with them

  where they're not in coalition and they

  don't have to support her laws and all

  her votes and everything she does but

  they do agree to support her on two

  important things confidence and supply

  so if there's a no confidence vote they

  agree to support the government so the

  government can stay in government and if

  there's something that's going to block

  up the money in the budget supply they

  also will support the government on that

  so it's not a coalition they don't have

  like you know oh interests they're not

  part of the government it's just an

  agreement to support them on those two

  crucial things and everything else is

  gonna be just chaos and what they're

  gonna get for that deal is yet to be

  finalized like you know lb suddenly

  gonna get lots of shiny new gorgeous

  infrastructure in certain parts of

  Northern Ireland as a result of this I

  imagine that might happen yes but of

  course the problem is Northern Ireland

  is deeply deeply divided between its own

  parties like the DUP lynchin phone well

  we're not going to go into that but

  obviously like shin vain and these other

  parties in Northern Ireland like hang on

  a second you're the UK government you're

  supposed to in some ways kind of

  keep out of the Northern Ireland mess

  you know there's agreements here that

  have been made and now you're like

  budding up with just one of the parties

  to get their votes so more messes to

  come as we speak now this agreement

  hasn't been signed

  that's very interesting I thought she

  had formed an official coalition this is

  a much more interesting situation the UK

  government sort of kind of taking aside

  in the Northern Irish politics like boy

  that sounds like a whole bunch and not

  fun I like this idea that there's a

  coalition that is a it's like an

  unofficial official coalition is what's

  happening here which is amazing because

  it sounds like maximum instability now

  it's like coalition's people always

  worry about them being unstable and now

  to not even have a coalition is unstable

  err that's fantastic I don't know what

  the betting markets are saying at the

  moment but a lot of people are saying

  that they'll probably be another

  election this year

  oh really interesting I think not but

  why do you think not because I mean one

  of the reasons this election went so

  pear-shaped I think for Teresa may was

  like election fatigue and I think people

  are sick of having elections all the

  time and they thought she was having

  another one to be a bit greedy people

  wanted to give her bit of a bloody nose

  for that well they did for whatever

  reason so I think if there's another

  election this year it will be one that's

  kind of forced upon them certainly I

  don't think the Conservative Party would

  risk holding it but I don't know what do

  I know

  I don't know much your bet is that if

  there is another election it would just

  be simply because the government just

  falls apart it is in essentially

  dissolves yeah and we have another

  election interesting folks two paces

  yeah it's interesting because again I I

  didn't follow any of the things going on

  but the reason I thought it was such a

  clever move is because I did have this

  feeling like boy really boxed in to

  having to support Theresa May because

  like my feeling is the result we have

  now is kind like the worst of everything

  because if brexit is going to happen

  even though i am not in favor of brexit

  i would still want the UK government to

  be in the strongest negotiating position

  for brexit to occur otherwise it feels

  like cutting your nose to spite your

  face hmm and so that's why I thought

  like oh man this elections lockdown be

  because everyone else is gonna make this

  kind of like same game theory

  calculation like well we don't want

  brexit to happen but if it's gonna

  happen like we might as well make our

  position super strong now it feels like

  oh god here we go like well the UK is

  wandering into brexit with a real bloody

  nose before the negotiations have even

  really begun I feel like this is not a

  good situation I tell you one thing

  that's interesting that I mean I know

  you and I are not you know we don't talk

  a lot of politics and stuff and you know

  especially you aren't particularly

  interested but this does mean that if

  BRICS it goes ahead which it seems like

  it still will you being so wrong about

  the general election does mean you're

  probably more likely to be right now

  about your bricks at prediction and that

  is everyone seems to agree now that soft

  brexit is much more likely than hard

  brick so we seem to be drifting towards

  a hard brick set before this election

  and now soft bricks that seems like the

  more likely scenario yeah I don't know

  it's like I still feel like with all of

  this stuff there's some weird part of me

  which still thinks like this will just

  never be resolved right but this will

  just go on forever and ever even though

  I know that it can't like article 50 has

  been triggered yeah there's some part of

  me which just can't let go of the idea

  of like man people can stall forever

  sometimes and are we just are we just

  going to be left in a limbo that just

  never ends that's a remain of fantasy

  then that remain a fantasy suddenly

  became a little bit more possible I

  think it's still a fantasy but I

  obviously was hoping we would stay in

  the EU as well so the idea of it falling

  apart delights me but I don't know if

  it'll happen or not but yeah I think it

  won't I don't think it will fall apart

  something happens or endless negotiation

  happens but those are different from it

  falling apart I don't know it's been a

  real interesting time with elections

  that's for sure and I feel like this one

  was to me particularly unexpected I feel

  like I don't really understand what

  happened between when she called the

  election and when the election happened

  but yeah it's surprising it is

  interesting and I don't like the

  position that the UK is in now because I

  feel like it's a it's a worse

  negotiating position but maybe if it

  ends up being a softer brexit in the

  long run that's better

  I don't know who knows only in the

  future will we know current US recording

  this now has no idea so there was

  another page

  of news I wanted to bring up with you

  this is one of the times where the fact

  that our podcasts are so far apart comes

  in handy or works against us I don't

  know which it's summertime Brady you

  can't have a lot of podcast in the

  summer everybody knows that no you

  certainly can't there was big news that

  I couldn't wait to tell you it's not be

  related we haven't actually had the buzz

  this week is there gonna be a buzz this

  week there's no buzz this week Brady

  okay there has been a lot of B news in

  fact did you not see the story about the

  Vice President of the United States has

  put a beehive at his house this sounds

  vaguely familiar it was like

  presidential buzz news in the summertime

  Twitter is also very hard to do so I

  haven't been keeping up with the Twitter

  as much because it's warm outside the

  second lady has installed a beehive at

  the vice presidential residence it's to

  raise awareness of the dwindling

  honeybee population well now that we've

  gotten some honeybees in the vice

  presidency there's only one place to go

  presidential honeybees in the future

  imagine that like a big white house of

  bees yeah that'll be awesome White House

  or bust for bees okay so after that

  accidental piece of buzz let me tell you

  more importantly what I thought was

  going to be Mount Everest news that I

  couldn't wait to discuss with you but I

  think it's been snatched away from me

  because there was this story during the

  rounds a few weeks ago that this really

  famous feature on Mount Everest called

  the Hillary step which is a sort of

  rocky outcropping it's the last bit of

  technical climbing you have to do before

  you get to like the summit of Everest

  mm-hmm had like collapsed had fallen

  apart apparently it was shaken apart by

  the earthquake that happened a couple of

  years ago and because no one had gone

  and navigated it since because of

  problems on Everest all the climbers

  were going back for the first time and

  they were like it's not there anymore

  there's just all this snow and the rocks

  falling apart and my impression was it

  had become actually easier now to get up

  past her and go on up to the summit and

  they were like these before and after

  pictures doing the rounds and it looked

  to me like it wasn't there anymore and I

  was really excited and so just before

  the show I was like getting everything

  ready to tell you about it mm-hmm and

  now there seems to be this second story

  where climbers are saying no no no no we

  think it's still there there's just been

  a lot of snow and you can't see

  properly and it's covering snow at the

  moment but the Hillary step is still

  there so the jury is out as to whether

  or not this famous feature this beloved

  feature on Mount Everest may not even be

  there anymore it's not often you get

  geological news is it that works in a

  pretty slow time scale so the idea that

  we have like a new piece of geology to

  tell everyone about that was quite

  exciting to me but now I don't know yes

  I have to wait a bit longer issues of

  the buzz might come out on a monthly

  basis but I feel like the geology Now

  magazine maybe comes out once a year

  geological news happens on a geological

  time scale yeah but like of all the

  things that could change like all the

  geological features in the world that

  could change like there's only one

  geological feature like higher than the

  Hillary step and that is like the summit

  of Mount Everest so sure of the summit

  of Mount Everest disappearing which I

  don't think is technically possible the

  Hillary step disappearing is like big

  news it's the second highest named thing

  in the world I think so anyway there you

  go there's Mount Everest non news or

  maybe news let's wait till the snow

  thaws but I have been hearing you Tim's

  for those 400,000 Tim's that alerted me

  to this news I didn't receive your

  emails and tweets thank you so you went

  to WWDC mm-hmm and I know you've

  discussed this on detail in the other

  place but I do want to find out what it

  was like that was it good by the way the

  other place is like a politics joke like

  if people don't know how that

  Parliament's work you don't name the

  other chamber and stuff oh yeah my

  learned friend in another place is what

  you sometimes stay instead of like the

  House of Lords really is it like a

  question time thing I don't think I've

  ever heard that yeah it's like it's like

  a parliament thing so anyway was it good

  did you have a good time I always feel

  kind of funny going to a conference like

  WWDC because I don't really have any

  reason to be there like I'm not a

  developer I don't have like a software

  business that has any reason to be in

  WWDC this is for me just totally an

  extension of really like my professional

  interest in Apple as a user of their

  products and particularly interesting to

  go after what feels like has been a long

  time where there haven't been any

  updates in in their products

  I went I really enjoyed it I feel like

  they had a whole bunch of exciting

  announcements which it's it's kind of

  nice to be there in person for that and

  to be around people when that's

  happening why well it's nice to be in

  person because when you're watching the

  announcements you can see other people's

  reactions to things and you know how you

  know what other people care about and

  what you care about and this was this

  was a really good show because everybody

  got something that they liked and then

  yeah the other reason I do like to be

  there in person is when Apple announces

  that they have new products like this

  year they have new iPads they give out

  review units to some of the people who

  are there and mmm there are

  circumstances under which maybe a person

  like me can get their hands on the brand

  new thing to get a first look at it for

  brief periods of time and that's the

  kind of thing that you can only do if

  you are physically at where the

  conference is happening that's just

  plain exciting like it's it's super fun

  and super interesting to see the brand

  new thing that was announced the day

  before which hasn't gone on sale yet so

  I really quite like that who would have

  thought that you of all people would

  like get a thrill from that luck because

  you know you're gonna get it in a few

  weeks and you buy everything new anyway

  so you are gonna have one who would have

  thought that like that kind of cheap

  thrill would penetrate your rational

  exterior don't get me wrong like it

  would work on me because I like cheap

  thrills but who would have thought that

  you would be so susceptible to the cheap

  thrill of oh I'm getting to touch this a

  few weeks before everyone else is that a

  cheap thrill though I mean the joke is

  always like Apple has this reality

  distortion bubble that they announce

  things and and it seems like it's

  amazing in their presentations but

  there's a really big difference between

  seeing and handling something in person

  hmm versus just seeing it presented on a

  stage oh yeah don't get me wrong oh yeah

  no I understand the difference between

  saying a picture of it and actually

  getting to use it and I just could have

  imagined a scenario in which you said

  well it's going to be in the shop in six

  weeks anyway and I'm going to buy it so

  the fact that I've touched it for 15

  minutes six weeks before is really

  irrelevant I'm gonna come to grips with

  it soon anyway and I

  no in six weeks whether it's good or

  it's bad and it's basically just that

  kind of not that you would boast about

  it but that kind of boast enos of I got

  to touch it before everyone else I would

  have thought would have little impact on

  you I feel like you don't understand it

  all the joy that I'm getting out of this

  right it's not that I get to change it

  before other people do it's I want to

  pass it through my own evaluation filter

  as soon as possible so impatient you're

  impatient to see it ya know you use you

  don't me see you such funny words it's

  like I want to know if the thing is as

  good as they're saying it is but you are

  gonna find that out like you're gonna

  find that out whether you're at WWDC or

  not like you're gonna find out when it's

  in the shop if it's as good as they say

  it is yeah I just like to find out

  sooner it's fun to find out sooner

  hence my word impatient which I think

  was the ideal word for that to describe

  that I want to find out sooner I think

  yes but it somehow really when you use

  the words I feel like I have the shape

  of some like Brady thought in my mind

  which you seem to be expressing which

  doesn't match up with my own internal

  experience here because if I was in

  London still I don't think I'd be

  feeling like oh man I can't wait to see

  the thing like I got to get my hands on

  it I would just be waiting until it was

  available but if I can go to WWE word to

  use but maybe you're right maybe it is

  the best word in in this circumstance

  I mean WWDC like isn't that like fueled

  by impatience like people's enthusiasm

  to see the stuff as soon as humanly

  possible like that's why everyone's

  there I know there are the reasons like

  collaboration and you know the primary

  thing with WWDC is apples announcing all

  of their new software changes so that

  all of the developers who are there can

  get their apps ready for when the

  software is officially released like

  there has to be a big period of time

  between which Apple reveals here's all

  the new things we've been working on

  here all the changes that we've made you

  need to adapt all of your programs to

  work with this new paradigm like there

  has to be at least a several month gap

  before the time yeah before then apple

  says here we're now putting all of these

  changes on

  everybody's iPhone impatience isn't the

  correct word to describe that it's just

  like we need

  like we need

  buffer period where people can adapt

  their stuff to the new way things are

  going to work and that is why

  essentially everybody is at WWDC they

  want to find out what's happening and

  more importantly software developers can

  actually get in touch with people at

  Apple and ask them questions about how

  to change their software that's why I

  feel I always feel like really out of

  place you're the one guy there that

  wants to just touch an iPad before

  everyone oh yeah exactly

  everybody else is there for like serious

  business work and I'm they're going to

  let me look at the thing it's so that's

  why I don't it feels a bit funny to go

  but it it just so happens to have worked

  out in the past two years that WWDC

  combined with other things and family

  stuff it's worked out that I can roll it

  up into one gigantic ball of traveling

  for the summer it happens to have worked

  out this way but it's not the kind of

  thing like I wouldn't fly over only for

  WWDC most likely I need to like wrap it

  up in a whole bunch of other stuff to do

  because again I have no real reason to

  be there except in patients are they

  releasing anything that I should be

  excited about I would say the thing that

  you should be excited about is new iMac

  pros yeah I did hear there is one and it

  excites me I went to the Apple store

  today but obviously it wasn't there

  because I wanted to find out what it was

  all about but it's not coming out until

  much later in the year it's coming out

  in December supposedly but yes this is

  for you and I for the work that we do

  probably the machines that we should get

  and it's also very nice because they're

  making it in black which is nice instead

  of the silver co as a way to distinguish

  like this is their professional thing

  but yet it's coming out in a few months

  and I don't know about you but my iMac

  certainly could use a bit of horsepower

  update yeah when it comes to exporting

  videos and editing podcasts and all the

  rest of that differently please tell me

  it's gonna have like some ports in it

  please they're not gonna like just have

  like one hole in it for Apple stuff only

  like is it gonna have like am I gonna be

  able to plug stuff into it it's funny

  you mention that because I'm recording

  right now on my macbook pro which I

  brought with me for this trip and

  the lack of ports is just killing me

  setting it up today it's like I have

  four USB seaports but of course the

  microphone that I'm using isn't USB see

  it's USB a so I need to have an adapter

  and it's like all of the hard drives I

  have also need adapters and I'm sitting

  here over the past few weeks realizing

  like I don't have enough adapters to

  work with this thing and even when I

  went out and bought like a big bag full

  of adapters there's still only four

  ports and it's like I need to plug in

  more than four things when I'm doing

  professional work on the road and the

  lack of SD card slot is just killing me

  on this trip I just had this today I

  went to the mech store today and I was

  looking at the MacBook Pro and I was

  just like I was looking for an SD slot

  in it just then the lady from the shop

  came up to me and said can I help you

  and I basically this turned her and said

  you guys are having a laugh and walked

  off I was disenchanted I gotta say of

  all of the things that they've done okay

  switching to USB C ports I can get on

  board a train that's driving to the

  future fine right reducing the number of

  ports I guess I can live with it but

  cutting out the SD card slot so that you

  can pull footage off your camera fast

  like isn't that the definition of Pro

  like how is this not in the laptop it

  has killed me so many times on this trip

  it is such a pain in the butt to not

  have that I do know that the new Mac Pro

  does have USB C slots and has USB a

  slots and has thunderbolt slots I don't

  know if it has an SD card slot or not

  but it seems like they've reversed a

  little bit on their decision of we will

  just go with two beautiful USB C ports

  because how could you possibly ever need

  more so it does look like they're black

  I Mac Pro will actually have a bunch of

  slots but it kills me on this laptop

  like I swear to God if Apple released

  the exact same laptop and they only

  changed one thing they added an SD card

  like I would buy it because it's so

  important you reminded me with this s

  taste stuff because obviously you're

  taking photos on your trip what

  percentage of the photos that you take

  have you in them have you taken any

  photos with you in them okay I am going

  to estimate five

  sent of the photos I take have me in

  them oh that's more than I would have

  guessed there might be a real over

  estimate but here's the thing Brady the

  only reason that I take photographs with

  me in them is because I know that my

  parents and my wife vastly prefer

  photographs that have me in them versus

  just photographs of things which I can

  totally understand but if for some

  reason my family did not want

  photographs of what I'm up to I think I

  would have essentially 0 photographs

  with with myself in them I go a little

  bit back and forward on this because

  don't get me wrong like I love taking

  like a nice photo for the sake of just a

  photo but part of me does think like if

  you're not taking any pictures with you

  in them what's the point of taking a

  photo at all I guess like why not just

  like buy a postcard buy a photographer

  who would have taken a much better

  further from the same spot I don't agree

  with that I think there's something

  about taking a photograph of a spot that

  you have taken like obviously of course

  any any notable landmark of any kind if

  you go to there will exist better

  photographs of that thing but I think

  there's something kind of nice about

  taking a photograph yourself of a place

  even if it's not a as good of a

  photograph as it could possibly be I

  also think that if you go somewhere

  significant you should like take a photo

  of yourself there like it's kind of like

  your flag on the moon it's just like

  yeah I I was here you know I was there

  when you look back at it I've liked if

  you go somewhere really amazing and

  don't and have no photograph of yourself

  there I think you could regret it later

  I'm mentally running over my last 10

  years of taking photographs and I feel

  like I don't really regret not having

  photographs of me and any particular

  places I feel like I'm totally fine with

  a photograph of the thing but it is

  mostly that other people are much less

  fine with solely photographs of things

  they want photographs of people which is

  completely understandable in further fun

  election news we have another election

  that took place recently and this was

  the Puerto Rican referendum on whether

  or not

  Puerto Rico should become a state of the

  United States

  raaah Puerto Rico has existed for a very

  long time in this in-between land

  as a territory and the US has this very

  strange system of territories which was

  obviously designed for the 1800s when

  America was adding a whole bunch of

  states and was not intended to be a

  thing that would just go on forever but

  Puerto Rico has ended up being a

  territory for a very very long time

  and there has been a debate for ages

  about whether or not Puerto Rico should

  become a state of the United States if

  it should become an independent country

  of its own or if it should enter into

  what is called free association with the

  United States which is I guess you could

  describe it as independence light where

  it is functionally an independent

  country but a bit under the aegis of the

  United States these are the options that

  have been open to Puerto Rico and they

  just recently had a referendum on it and

  Puerto Rico has voted for full statehood

  as the option that they wish to pursue

  all right there are a few things coming

  to mind and a few things to talk about

  that you're going to want to talk about

  but just to start me off here you're

  talking as if this is entirely their

  decision which I find hard to believe

  like there's a there's a whole other

  party here isn't there which is the

  other 50 states it's not just their

  decision is it's not like you and I

  could decide we want to form a state of

  the United States and vote on it and

  then tell them right all right we're in

  this is the beginning of even under the

  best of circumstances what would be a

  very long dance between Puerto Rico and

  and the United States

  I don't know offhand what the exact

  procedure is but yeah it is not the case

  that if Puerto Rico decides that it

  wants to be a state that it is just

  immediately accepted into the Union

  given its status as a territory right so

  given that is a known thing I assume

  polling been done but I don't know

  whether it's that this is a common

  knowledge or not is it a well known

  thing how the greater body of the United

  States feels about this like do most

  people think yeah let him in order most

  people think no way we don't want to

  like what's the general temperature of

  the United States in in relation to this

  I have never seen any polling data on it


  would be curious but I would bet that if

  you asked Americans about Puerto Rico

  you would only get one of two answers

  and it would be people who think it is a

  separate country and people who think it

  is already a state in the United States

  no I would wager an enormous amount of

  money on that that most people would not

  be able to answer that Puerto Rico is a

  territory of the United States right

  most continental citizens yeah I agree

  with part one of what you said I just

  cannot believe part two I cannot believe

  you could find people who think Puerto

  Rico is one of the 50 states you always

  have such a high opinion of people Brady

  I find it really charming it's like I

  know too many things about how people in

  New Mexico have a hard time getting

  deliveries to New Mexico in the United

  States like I've run across too much of

  this stuff where people just don't

  understand what the states are I'm not

  even confident that more than 75% of

  adult Americans would know that there

  are 50 states exactly I've run into

  people who are like oh it's 52 states

  isn't it for some reason like this seems

  to be a number that lodges in people's

  heads I can see where that confusion

  comes from but yeah okay so that's why I

  would be very willing to bet that most

  Americans think it is already a state or

  think it is a separate country and just

  don't really have any opinion on this

  matter at all but what I think is a

  really really interesting snag in this

  because because as we said like this is

  going to start a dance between Puerto

  Rico and the United States but just I

  think there's interesting parallels with

  this to brexit because just like the

  brexit turnout was lower than expected

  the voter turnout in the Puerto Rican

  referendum was hilariously low 23% of

  the population turned out to vote in

  this referendum that seems to me just

  like a real snag perhaps in this because

  again it's like a non-binding referendum

  but I feel like it is really hard to

  call that a clear victory that Puerto

  Ricans want to become an official state

  in the United States when only 23% of

  people turned out to vote in the actual


  I mean I'm no expert on this I've only

  read one article about the story at all

  but in that article I did read two

  important pieces of information that

  feed into that though one is they have

  voted on this before yes yeah it's not

  the first time yeah and the second thing

  is this particular election was unique

  because there was this like call for a

  boycott like there was a political

  reason for that low turnout it wasn't

  that people don't care and things that

  was like the low turnout it was in

  itself part of the the politics of it

  that's exactly right that I didn't

  follow the exact details of it but the

  two other major parties and options

  boycotted the referendum which when you

  look at the voter turnout makes it even

  more hilarious because 23 percent of the

  people showed up to vote but of those 23

  percent who showed up to vote 97 percent

  of them voted for state it is like okay

  this is not any kind of normal election

  result whatsoever so I wouldn't be

  surprised if this ends up going nowhere

  I just don't know I don't I don't know

  what are the interests of all of the

  parties that are involved in this like I

  don't know if the United States wants to

  add an additional state like is that

  advantageous over the situation with

  Puerto Rico now like I'm not sure that

  it is I just don't know

  it's just yet another in the past year

  of elections of like an election about a

  very important thing and the election

  itself the results are unexpected and

  strange so if you were made like boss of

  the universe tomorrow and the people of

  the United States and the people of

  Puerto Rico said gray we don't know what

  to do can you just decide for us you had

  to decide tomorrow and no one would

  complain about your decision they just

  said gray just to cite a forest man what

  would you do

  there's many complications here what I

  was gonna say is I guess if I could snap

  my fingers I would make Puerto Rico an

  independent nation because in general I

  prefer for political power to be in

  smaller more local groups than in larger

  blocks and yeah this would like a creat

  more power to the level of the federal

  government and away from Puerto Rico

  over time which is what happens in the

  United States but I guess the problem

  there is there's an

  enormous number of Puerto Ricans who

  live and work in the United States it's

  a perennial problem for Puerto Rico that

  there's a bit of a brain drain of many

  of its talented citizens saying well as

  a Puerto Rican I can live and work in

  the United States and so I'm moving to

  New York or moving to San Francisco and

  I'm not going to stay down here on this

  island so I don't think those people

  would be super happy so I guess I don't

  know I guess maybe the optimal solution

  is really for Puerto Rico to just stay

  as a territory essentially forever

  because they think one of the only major

  downsides of that is is like an

  inability to vote for presidents and I

  think there are a few tax implications

  but maybe for Puerto Ricans the best

  thing to do would be to stay as a

  territory forever to be slightly arm's

  length from the federal government while

  still having all of the advantages of

  American citizenship no just thinking it

  out loud maybe that's what it what the

  result really should be soft brexit soft

  territoriality I would say though that

  if I was in charge of everything

  tomorrow I would declare this referendum

  just totally invalid I feel like no do

  it again if you get 23 percent of the

  people to show up like I'm sorry we're

  not making any decisions based on that

  like this is this is no indication of

  what people actually think I've got to

  try again with your referendum Puerto

  Rico I mean of course this being hello

  internet matters of sort of governance

  and voting and immigration pale into

  insignificance when compared to the

  discussion that must be had about what

  to do with the American flag if Puerto

  Rico becomes a state I know I know this

  is the most exciting part is it the most

  exciting part by far it's been so long

  since we added a star to the US flag hmm

  and what makes it even better is 51 is

  such a terrible number no good way to

  arrange 51 stars so yeah this to me

  would be the most exciting thing about

  Puerto Rico joining the United States is

  we would have to have some kind of

  decision made about what our options

  would be for 51 star flag and there's

  some institution which has mapped out

  possible designs for like the next ten


  to be added which i think is a little

  bit optimistic many states you can add

  but this is the thing that people like

  to think about and I'll send you a link

  to what are some of the top options for

  51 star flag designs ok 51 let's have a

  look here maybe no no maybe maybe maybe

  no no okay so be careful the link that

  I've sent to you the first three are 51

  star designs the rest of them are it's

  52 there are 10 is 52 and 50 okay so

  you're right of the 352 is I'm saying

  yes no no so only the first one there is

  acceptable what so basically one of them

  kind of to the at first glance looks

  like the current flag but a little bit

  disjointed kind of a little bit Kindle

  not justified but acceptable yeah if you

  just add one more star and try to keep

  the rows in the way that it looks right

  now I feel like this is just a nightmare

  of a flag it just looks wrong the rows

  are unsymmetrical from top to bottom

  yeah this is totally unacceptable as a

  flag but then if you're not going to do

  that you have to try to find a way to

  aesthetically pleasing ly rearrange the

  Stars well you've got one that's kind of

  like some kind of like it kind of looks

  like a optical illusion cube or some

  kind of weird it's like if you took a

  hexagon but you made the top you

  stretched out the top and bottom so it's

  all it's a longer gone hexagon is what

  it is it looks like a regular hexagon

  that someone has sat on and squashed oh

  yeah that's good that's that's also good

  yeah that's correct

  yeah and that again no because that

  leaves all this excess blue in the bit

  in the corner I've tried to arrange them

  in kind of are they concentric circles I

  don't know but it just creates weird

  shapes and apparently this is the one

  proposed by the new Progressive Party of

  Puerto Rico I think the new Progressive

  Party of Puerto Rico is not listening to

  enough hello Internet and not getting

  their act together with legs there is a

  a way to arrange 51 stars into roughly a

  sphere by put

  one star in the center and then you have

  to be very careful about how you put all

  the other stars around it

  what's fierce phase three dimension of

  it that would be an awesome plan

  I think the reason why I said a sphere

  is because when I look at this thing

  full screen like if a full-screen image

  of the 51 star circular flag there is

  almost like it's an optical illusion

  yeah it's like an optical illusion that

  it it almost feels like the first star

  is closer

  it ends up reminding me very much of the

  giant ball at Epcot in Disney that's

  what it looks like it looks like they

  are different distances apart because in

  order to try to make it a filled in

  circle you have to change the

  distribution of distances between the

  stars yeah so what I think is so

  fascinating about the idea of Puerto

  Rico joining is the u.s. flag who said

  before it's not my favorite flag but all

  of the options for what on earth can you

  do with 51 stars I think they're all

  terrible options they're not great if I

  had to go with one I would actually go

  with the sphere of stars no no gray no


  but here's the thing here's a real

  problem with that one that's smaller and

  smaller sizes it looks worse and worse

  and at larger and larger sizes you have

  this optical illusion effect but

  something about my desire for order

  cannot abide by the uneven rows of the

  51 stars like I just I can look at that

  so I have to mark that one out and then

  the only option is between the squashed

  hexagons and the circle and neither of

  them are great but if I have to pick one

  I'm going to pick the circle over the

  squash hexagon because at least

  everything terrible I'm not saying the

  circles good but at least the circle

  evokes the Betsy Ross flag so I feel

  like I can go along with that right you

  can I can go along with that no you're

  wrong okay what do you go with then

  Brady it also the circle has like these

  lines for me in it like your mind

  creates these weird lines like a sort of

  a weird person doing a star jump or

  something and I totally see what you're

  saying yeah and

  that looks worse and worse at smaller

  sizes I would go with the first one the

  first one with your Kindle justification

  I could live with because you said it

  looks disordered but to me there is like

  there is order to it there was method to

  it but I could live with that because

  it's most like the current flag I'll

  tell you one thing though I think a lot

  of people in the US would be reasonably

  indifferent to the idea of Puerto Rico

  becoming a state until you told them it

  would involve changing the flag I think

  the fact that when it will involve

  changing the flag is the biggest barrier

  to the people of the u.s. letting Puerto

  Rico in you know what it hadn't crossed

  my mind but I think you're totally right

  you could run an anti Puerto Rico

  campaign that simply took the squash

  hexagon flag and said this is what

  America will look like if Puerto Rico

  joins right and it's like boom 97%

  disapproval of Puerto Rico joining

  America like I think I think that would

  just be over it's the stars and stripe

  of flag flag now if I had to pick a guy

  I would go with that circle one if you

  had to pick you would go with the uneven

  ones I do think there is one option

  which I would highly approve of if

  you're going to 51 is to say look the

  hell with this

  the hell with all these stars let's just

  go back to the Betsy Ross flag with the

  13 stars I think that would be a much

  better decision to say we're gonna stop

  this uneven star business this was fine

  in the 1800's when we were drawing

  graphs of how many states we keep adding

  every year and isn't this a fun thing to

  do it's like but we're well beyond that

  now it's been what 60 or 70 years since

  the last state joined the Union I don't

  even know it's been forever if you had

  to choose I would be a big proponent of

  go back to the Betsy Ross flag with just

  the 13 stars and we'll leave it like

  that and we won't ever have to mess with

  this again I think that's option one hmm

  option two is the 52 star flag looks

  pretty good and I think at a glance you

  could totally

  not even notice that it's different from

  the current US flag and so I think

  option two is Puerto Rico can join but

  we need to find somebody else as well

  right we need an additional states to

  join the union so that we can make it 52


  those are my courses of action you mean

  the first 50 to starvation on this page

  I'm looking at yeah okay

  the first 52 star version it's still a

  little uneven but there's something

  about its unevenness which is less

  bothersome than the 51 star version okay

  right the 51 star version is just

  terrible I'm with you I'm with you

  okay so here's my thoughts on that first

  up like I agree the 52 uneven looks

  better than the 51 uneven I agree it is

  a bit more pleasing on the eye


  but obviously you're being bit of a

  silly-billy and we can't like have an

  extra state in the flag races so I'm

  gonna rule out that joke that is not a

  joke I am deadly serious about that like

  if we have to annex somewhere like will

  annex somewhere now you're just being a

  mischief-maker watch out British

  Columbia let's go to a situation where

  we do have to have 51 states I think

  that the Betsy Ross flag is a very

  good-looking flag mm-hmm

  I think it would be a lovely plagg to

  have but that I think is also completely

  untenable because of the politics and

  the history involved with what the 13

  stars represent so you would never be

  able to push that through so even though

  I have no great attachment to all that

  history you know anyone can see that

  that's going to be an insurmountable

  problem yeah 100% I agree with you on

  that one because every state is just

  going to run the campaign of can you

  believe they want to remove Nebraska's

  star from the flag like that's

  outrageous and so you're never gonna win

  that one politically I mean clearly the

  best solution is to have one star with

  51 points the classic 51 pointed star I

  wonder for 51 pointed star exist someone

  must have done this by now I feel like I

  need to open up Inkscape and do the

  thing where you can dynamically generate

  a 51 pointed star I'm sure someone's

  done it on the flag Vicks

  ji-sub beretta at some point I can't be

  the first person to have thought of this

  I don't know Brady it's so crazy it just

  might work well then it would be code

  the Brady Haran flag and I would be up

  there with the Betsy Ross I just

  generated a 51 pointed star in my

  animation program Wow

  you are fast my friend how can you do

  that so quickly and put out so few

  videos animation is not the hardest part

  let me just quickly put it on a blue

  background so you get the real

  experience right can you check it on

  with the straps as well while you're

  there I want the first time I see it to

  be the full experience you know what

  actually I can do that I can do that

  pretty quick give me two seconds see

  this is the business we should have gray

  I just sit here coming up with ideas and

  then you make them a reality for me is

  that what you want your the ideas guy

  I'll do the implementation

  I am the ideas guy and you're like

  logistics and you know okay thank you

  hope Brady I've just sent a team over

  iMessage for people listening that gray

  spent two hours on this oh no no you

  haven't done it right I'm sorry how do

  you want it the spikes need to be more

  spiky that just looks like a circle with

  a few spikes on it yeah I can give you a

  more spiky version in two seconds longer

  spikes again you're the ideas guy here

  I'll implement your ideas until you are

  satisfied with the spike eNOS keep that

  as version one though gray so when they

  write the book about us they'll be able

  to show like the evolution of the

  process yeah of course yeah I will do

  that no problem at all that was version

  1 version 2 on the way uh-hmm I can make

  it even more spiky yeah more spiky I

  don't want there to be a circle in the

  middle well yeah okay we'll see it looks

  really weird if you take out the circle

  but I will go for maximum spike eNOS and

  then we'll put all three there and

  people can decide okay do you know what

  I said that as a joke and it actually

  looks better than I expected but anyway

  let's see what the final versions like

  I'm not saying it's the solution but

  here's the problem that we're getting

  into Brady is the number of pixels that

  are even available to show that there

  are 51 spokes so here is about as spikey

  as I can make it where the spokes are

  even still visible okay I don't want

  excuses gray what results I'm just

  telling you man okay yeah that's let's

  see I see the problem you're having

  there there's something else I can do

  which I kind of like hold on I know how

  it is in your head but this is just a

  problem of 51 is so many that there

  isn't enough space

  to actually do it yeah I get it right

  but it's like I have that same flag in

  my head but it you just can't really

  reproduce it yeah I'm gonna call this

  one the buzzsaw version of 51 not great

  puzzles not happening though of course

  that looks terrible

  I think the only one that even remotely

  looks good is the first most chunky one

  but then what that looks like is you've

  stuck one of those as-seen-on-tv labels

  on the flag I think the second one had

  potential but yeah I know what you're

  thinking but it it just looks really

  weird very fast adjusting the number of

  spikes there's just not enough space I

  don't want to get too carried away

  because I said it as a joke anyway about

  it there we go we'll put them in the

  show notes so people can take a look at

  our brainstorming what a fifty-one star

  flag looks like and I love that we did a

  bit of live flag design on the podcast

  you don't get that every day folks how

  many other podcast here listen to you

  where you get to listen to two guys

  desiring a flag life or one visionary

  suggesting flags and one like you know

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  show okay brainy I need to ask your

  opinion on something mm-hmm let me

  describe for you a situation that

  occurred I'm traveling this summer and

  I'm out on the road and I'm trying very

  hard to at least vaguely stay healthy

  and to not balloon up and wait while

  you're in America which is hard to do

  because the streets are paved with

  donuts and hot dogs man and hot dogs how

  much do I love hot dogs they always

  smell good when you're walking by the

  hot dog vendor like that seems like a

  good idea even if it isn't a good hot

  dog a good hot dog so I have been trying

  to stay as low carb as possible which is

  actually especially out in like

  California is way easier to do than you

  might imagine

  like lots of places are used to this and

  one of the easiest ways to just be able

  to stay low carb anywhere is to just

  order a burger and just eat the burger

  part of it don't eat the bun so I was

  out having lunch with a few people and I

  ordered a burger and everybody else is

  eating and now I'm the weirdo who's

  taking the top off of the burger and I'm

  using a knife and fork to start eating

  the burger itself you are a weirdo I

  have no time for people who order a

  burger and don't eat the bun but anyway

  I say why don't you see what's happening

  here so before the story continues I

  just need to specify something that this

  was a breakfast burger so it was a

  burger that had eggs on top of it and it

  also had a kind of eggs benedict sauce

  on top of it so it was an unusually

  messy kind of burger okay right with

  eggs and sauce on it it's not just like

  um neatly lifting the burger out of the

  bun so I'm eating the burger

  I finished the burger do you remove the

  bottom bun first or the

  the bottom bun like it's the plate and

  you're like cutting in I treated it like

  it was the plate and I was just cutting

  that on top of it because it would have

  been more terrible to try to remove this

  very messy burger from the bottom bun I

  left the whole bottom button intact so I

  didn't cut through it I was just cutting

  it like it was the plate that's some

  precise knife work

  that's like surgical cutting through the

  meat but stopping before you go through

  the bun I'm impressed by your knife

  skill I've had much practice in doing

  this so have the picture in your head

  I have eaten all the meat yep but

  there's a lot of like burger juice and

  McGuiness and sauce

  that's in the bun and I took the top bun

  and I put it back on top sloppy sloppy

  bun yeah it's a it's a total sloppy

  button as I'm sitting there and I'm done

  with this yep the guy sitting across

  from me takes one look at what I've done

  yep and then he says no can I eat your

  buns can I eat your sloppy buns yeah are

  you trying to get this podcast pledge

  this was one of these moments in life

  where I feel like it like a situation is

  so strange and unexpected that my brain

  just doesn't like it has no previous

  experience here and goes into like a

  weird autopilot mode of how is it

  appropriate to be social in moments when

  you don't know and just err on the side

  of nice so I think my brain just like

  flipped into that mode because it had no

  idea of what to do and so I said sure

  and i slided the plate across and this

  guy then ate my sloppy buns with a knife

  and fork or by hand by hand he ate it by

  hand here's the thing I'm very sorry if

  person who you were is listening to this

  podcast which there is a nonzero chance

  about this like I'm very thinking I'm

  very aware that the person who did this

  may be listening right now and I'm sorry

  to bring this up but here's the thing I

  haven't been able to stop thinking about

  this for more than a week now

  this happened at least 10 days ago and I

  find myself at random moments coming

  back to this thought again and again

  like the guy wanted to eat my sloppy

  buns and I gave

  them to him so here's what I keep coming

  back to if they had been french fries if

  I had ordered a burger and it came with

  french fries and the guy had said can I

  eat your french fries I would have said

  yes of course why not yeah there's no

  reason not to except if I was some kind

  of really antisocial weird out like no I

  bought these french fries I'm not gonna

  eat them because I'm on a low-carb diet

  I'm just gonna throw them on the ground

  right so nobody can eat them great you

  had no choice I understand what happened

  you had no choice but to surrender the

  sloppy buns because clearly you weren't

  gonna have them and like how could you

  say no either you had to say no and eat

  them yourself or you had to give them up

  the thing that you did that surprises me

  is you didn't like confront the person

  who out saying are you serious sloppy

  buns that's ridiculous like you're a

  crazy person like I can't believe you

  didn't like call them out on it that's

  what you should have done you should

  have said if you're sure if you want but

  you're crazy you seriously wanna eat my

  sloppy buns I was just so taken aback

  that I just did this automatic reflex

  and then I just it can't it will not

  leave my mind the reason why I can't

  leave my mind is is like okay the fries

  are unambiguous but then feels like I

  don't know I don't know how to describe

  it it almost feels weirdly personally

  invasive but this person these buns like

  it doesn't make any sense right because

  we're not sharing them all right I'm

  done with them it's not like he was

  gumming them and then giving them back

  to me and I'm going to eat them again

  it's done they're just going in the

  garbage but I feel like weirdly violated

  in this situation and in a way that I

  just I just cannot describe I think it's

  all on him cuz I know you're pretty big

  on like you know germs and sterility and

  like the chain of custody of saliva and

  right right yeah and I think you're safe

  well clearly you're safe here you would

  yeah that's exactly it there is no germ

  objection that can take place in this

  scenario it's just a bit of oh yeah but

  the other person I think had does have

  questions to answer in that respect but

  they're they're probably quite

  comfortable with it I mean the buns had

  clearly reached a point where there had

  been sufficiently sullied that it seems

  strange that someone was willing to

  touch and consume them but that's on


  you probably wouldn't be having these

  problems if you just discussed it at the

  time I think you would have gotten out

  of your chest maybe that's what it is I

  feel like I just I didn't clarify enough

  with the situation and my brain is

  treating this like an open loop that it

  just keeps coming back to you and back

  to but the problem is I do kind of feel

  like in the future I would say no

  because I couldn't put my finger on it

  but it just it feels like some kind of

  personal violation has occurred when

  there other people besides you two at

  the table there were other people at the


  what glance is being exchanged at the

  time or did anyone speak up or like was

  it just treated like normal or were

  people that look at each other guy did

  you just see that he just took that guy

  sloppy buns so the way things happened

  is I was so fixated on what was

  occurring I don't know if they were

  glances being directed around the table

  and right it just so happens that the

  two other people who were there I didn't

  have a chance to revisit this topic with

  them after the way the group broke up it

  just it just didn't work out mmm mm-hmm

  and so I've been discussing this with

  like every human being that I have met

  what's been that consensus there's

  universal consensus that it's weird to

  ask but that it would be wrong to say no

  yeah that seems to be the consensus I

  keep circling around this idea of like

  if I'm ever in this scenario again I'm

  gonna have to make sure to stand up for

  myself and say no like no I will not

  give you my sloppy second buns this is

  an inappropriate violation of my

  personal space in a way that french

  fries are not what if the person says

  why not like you're not gonna eat them

  why do you mind meeting them it's

  wasteful but this is it I have no good

  answer other than well now I'm asking

  you for an answer

  you're in the situation I'm sorry I'm

  challenging you on it now what are you

  gonna say I think I've asked you you've

  said no what's your I've said why now

  what do you say you need to gain this

  three men my only answer paints me as a

  crazy person which I think I will just

  have to bite the bullet on this one but

  the answer will be no I paid for these

  buns and I'm uncomfortable with the idea

  of you eating them no you can't that's

  unacceptable why is that unacceptable do

  you know what you actually have the

  acceptable answer now because of this

  because of this catharsis that you've

  done here

  you can say do you know what I know I

  should say yes but this has happened to

  me once before and after it happened it

  became such a difficult thing I even

  made a whole podcast episode about it

  which you could listen to if you like

  but for that reason for that reason and

  how it affected me the previous time I'm

  gonna have to respectfully and

  regretfully say keep your hands off my

  sloppy pants