H.I. #84: Sloppy Buns
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let's descend into prayer for this
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podcast dear podcast gods please forgive
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the sins we've committed over the last
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half-hour and let this episode actually
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make it to air amen amen
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it seems Brady that Trafalgar Square is
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doubling down on their policy of no fun
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big time I was there the other day
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mm-hmm and you know how you're not
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allowed on the lines and you said there
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was like some guard right well now the
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whole lion area at the bottom of
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Nelson's column had like this like black
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and yellow crime scene esque tape around
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it so you couldn't even get to within
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touching distance of the Lions yet alone
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climb on them it was like all
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quarantined there was no water in the
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fountains so there was no fun to be had
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in the fountains seriously it was crazy
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it was the least fun place in all of the
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UK except when you talked about
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Trafalgar Square and you were dissing it
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and you were quite right to be dissing
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it you did leave out Nelson's column
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itself which i think is one of the great
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sites of London and that is still a
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reason to go to Trafalgar Square and I
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do still love that I guess but it
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doesn't help that Nelson's column is now
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in the center of this no fun zone
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yeah and on one side you have Trafalgar
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Square which used to be fun and on the
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other side you just have a massive
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traffic intersection yeah it needs a
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reason to be a fun place to go but you
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sent me this photograph of the square
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crime scene off yeah it is hard to
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express how enraged that made me because
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the thing I was aware of when I was
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there the first time and saw those signs
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about don't climb on the Lions the thing
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that a bunch of people were doing which
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the guard seemed totally okay on is
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there's two positions to photograph
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yourself with the Lions at Trafalgar
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there is the risky one for the
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adventurous types which is to climb up
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on to the actual back of the lion and
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get a photograph there yeah but lots of
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families take a kind of classic
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Trafalgar Square photo which is a dad
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will raise up their kids onto the paws
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of the lion so like there's this
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relatively low area between
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the two pause of each of the Lions and
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every family loves to pack their kids in
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between the paws and take photographs of
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that it's a super cute photo right it's
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great and it seemed like that was okay
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with the guards they weren't stopping
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anybody from doing that it was just
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going on the backs of the Lions but now
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like you said they've put this tape
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around the whole thing so that you can't
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touch the Lions you certainly can't put
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people between the paws of the Lions
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it's unbelievable again it makes me so
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angry I could just I don't know it well
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before you go off on one there are two
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possible explanations for this that have
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come to mind mm-hmm the first and the
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one that I hope is true but is by far
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the least likely is that in a hallow
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internet wikipedia style lockdown moment
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the sheer act of us talking about a
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topic has caused such nuisance making by
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tims that the authorities have had no
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choice but to essentially lock down the
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Lions which would amuse me no end but
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clearly is not the case the second and
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more likely scenario is that some kind
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of work is going on some kind of
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preparation maybe they were having to do
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something to to concrete up above and
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they didn't want things falling down
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onto people from Lord Nelson or they
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were prepping something I mean the fact
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the fountains are empty as well tells me
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that maybe they're doing though you know
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spring clean so I think the most likely
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scenario is that this was a temporary
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measure but nevertheless it would be fun
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if it was it was like a Wikipedia style
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page lock there and that would cause
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again we would never promote Wikipedia
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vandalism that's the wrong thing to do
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and of course we never promote social
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disobedience on this podcast that would
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be wrong to do to promote people to go
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and sit on the backs of the Lions to
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retweet people doing that kind of thing
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that would be wrong on many levels but
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neither of us would ever do such a thing
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and as we've said that the perfect storm
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of the two is to go into the Wikipedia
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page for Trafalgar Square and fill it
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with photos of a city on the line yeah
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we would never encourage that but I'm
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always suspicious about this because my
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personal experience with
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bureaucracies and this kind of structure
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is there's like a crank shift that only
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turns in one direction and the direction
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that it turns is more regulations more
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rules and less fun and that it's
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essentially impossible to turn that back
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in the other direction and so yeah even
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if this is for building works let's say
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let's say is the best case scenario that
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go we just want to polish up the liens
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right and I can still imagine them
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thinking after a little bit like hey you
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know what this square is way easier to
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once we wall off the whole central
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column like now we don't have to worry
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about anything and then some lawyer
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would say hey you know what now you
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don't have to worry about people
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climbing up on Nelson's column not even
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on the liens there's just like a
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stair-step thing that you can climb up
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on why don't we just leave it up it's
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already been up for a couple of weeks
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and everything's been fine so that
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that's my fear it's like I can just feel
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the machinery of desaturating the world
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turning another tick yeah
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that's my worry my favorite example of
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fun being taken away because of safety
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won't mean a tremendous amount to you
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because you have no idea how the game of
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Australian rules football works but you
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know it's like an oblong like egg-shaped
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bowl that people kick and catch and do
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things like that with and it was a great
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tradition at Australian rules football
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games that at the end of the game when
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the final siren went and after the
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players had left the field they would
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sound the siren again about five or ten
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minutes later and everyone could run out
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onto the field with the balls they'd
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brought along themselves and like just
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to run around on the field and kick the
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ball and you could like try and kick for
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the goals and pretend to be a hero and
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kick the ball through the goals that
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your heroes had just been doing wow that
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sounds great it was great fun and you'd
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have two or three thousand people all
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over the field each having their own
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little games kicking it back and forward
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the probability of walking off that
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field without getting hit in the face by
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a football it was virtually zero of
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course no guarantee that at least once
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you would get hit by a ball you didn't
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see coming because it was just like a
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frenzy of balls in the air
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but it was so much fun you know you'd
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line up the girls and try and kick a
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goal from an angle you just saw your
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heroes doing it and then eventually so
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many people were complaining about
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getting hurt by getting hit by balls in
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the head or like you know twisting their
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ankle that eventually they banned it and
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like it went away and it was one of the
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great quaint traditions of Australian
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sport that all the kids were allowed to
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do this after a big professional game of
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sport but gone now gone tour the
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professionalism and health and safety
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it's not even health and safety gone mad
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it's there's a certain kind of I think
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undue weight that boredom and
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seriousness and safety always have in
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conversations because it ends up being
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really hard to argue for the intangible
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values like fun over the tangible thing
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like someone could hurt themselves no
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matter how small the probability of
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someone could hurt themselves or a thing
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could be dangerous is it's like I feel
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like any possibility of that in all
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conversations in organizations around
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anything like it it's always biased
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toward this direction that's why I find
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it really frustrating you know now it's
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a long time ago but I was always hugely
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frustrated when I was a teacher to
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discover how many of the things that I
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thought were awesome cool fun things
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that my teachers had done when I was a
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kid in the science lab were totally off
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limits Oh like we can't do any of that
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like are you crazy you can't have a kid
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touch a Van de Graaff generator what if
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they have a heart condition we don't
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know about it's like has this ever
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happened in the history of ever that a
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kids died from a heart attack from
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touching a Van de Graaff generator and
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they're like it could happen it's the
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case of course it could happen but like
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how we have to weigh these things
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they're like mmm no it could happen
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we're not gonna do that like only things
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that are totally safe oh my god it
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really bothers me I think that's why the
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Trafalgar Square thing gets right at the
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heart of me just to top it off I think
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this is the funniest thing I have seen
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which is related to Trafalgar Square
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being the no fun zone just mere hours
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ago on the hello internet subreddit
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someone posted a video of themselves in
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Trafalgar Square a couple of years ago
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doing some juggling and the guards at
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Trafalgar Square come over and tell him
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not allowed in Trafalgar Square it looks
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like this guy was putting together one
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of those videos where he's doing
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juggling in various spots all over the
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world he says in the description that
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like he'd traveled to all of these
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various places and there was only one
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spot in the whole world where they told
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oh sorry you're not allowed to juggle
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and that was Trafalgar Square yeah I
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mean to be fair that is also probably
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one of the prime spot where like you
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know professional jugglers try and bust
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for twenty minutes and make a bit of
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money if there was one place where I
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thought you would get cracked down on
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for juggling it actually would be
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that's like busker central isn't it and
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they're like very fine-tuned to people
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doing unauthorized busking they're
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busking I can totally understand
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well juggling is a busker classic as
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well it's not busking if you don't have
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a like a sad poppers hat in front of you
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with some coins that you placed inside
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of it to get the thing going they
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clearly thought that's what he was
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starting to do I need to watch the video
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I don't get me wrong I like a good
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juggle do you like a good juggle I'm a
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very good juggler oh yeah
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yeah how many balls can you juggle the
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ones Brady well I'm not very good at
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four but I'm very good at three and I
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can do like behind my back and tricks
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and under my legs and stuff well I look
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forward to the brady juggling roadshow
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i can't believe you haven't been
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subjected to it yet to be honest you
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know what I'm surprised I haven't been
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subjected to it yet either but I have a
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feeling like the next time we see each
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other in person there's gonna be some
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juggling if there's like middle kids
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that are bored sometimes my wife will
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say just do a bit of juggling for them
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just to cheer them up and I'd like it's
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them all excited to say that feels very
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uncle Brady do you pull coins from
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behind their ears as well do you do that
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do you take their noses now I'm a bit
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more like edgy than that I tell you what
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a couple more things though coming back
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to the Lions hmm because I was reading
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about why they banned people going on
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the Lions and I read quite a bit about
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this and how they were like structural
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problems they did like surveys of the
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Lions and found that people were
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starting to wear them away and stuff of
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course yeah yeah but like fix them then
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because this is part of the experience
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it's like saying we're gonna ban people
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from throwing coins into the Trevi
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Fountain because occasionally coins hit
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the stonework and cause little chips
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right well yeah and the Trevi Fountain
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is old and famous and important and
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shouldn't be chipped but it's way more
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important that you're there to throw
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coins into it so this kind of damage and
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is part of the story of the lines so if
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they get worn away and you've got to
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give one of them you know a bit of back
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surgery or reinforce one or do some work
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on them okay do the work but you've got
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to take the hit you know I'm with you
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100% and I think this is another example
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of where there's an easy argument to
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make which like with the pigeons as well
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it's like you can put a number on how
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much damage does pigeon poo cause in
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Trafalgar Square every year in terms of
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dollars right you can say like it costs
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us X amount to clean this thing every
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year you can also say oh the Lions if we
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need to strengthen up the backs every
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decade it's gonna cost us X amount and
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like that is a real clear bureaucratic
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argument but what it just feel like is
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the intangible thing on the other side
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is but you know this is why people come
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here if you have to have touristy
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interesting things for people to do and
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if you continually crank this dial of
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having more and more of them more and
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more off limits like what is the point
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of all of this it's like yes I'm sure it
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costs a lot of money to clean up all the
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pigeon poo in Trafalgar Square but
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people come from the world over to see
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the pigeons and to go on the backs of
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the Lions and surely hundreds of
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thousands of tourists a year pay through
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tax revenue and buying stuff and
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supporting the local economy like they
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pay for that upkeep like there's no way
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that it doesn't but I feel like somehow
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the preservationist side and the cost
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side of the argument is just the de
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facto winner and it's it's like
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impossible to try to be on the side of
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these intangible things and I feel like
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I got again I'm totally with you on this
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it's like hey look guess what these
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lions being outside wears them away
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everything erodes over time you're going
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to have to update them anyway
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why not update them more frequently and
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also let people enjoy them and we could
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just put the whole thing inside a
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gigantic plastic box right and there's I
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go well there's also sun damage getting
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through that box so we can put it in a
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gigantic opaque box right all around
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your vulgar square and nobody is allowed
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in is like is that what you want now
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it'll last a really long time right but
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nobody gets to appreciate it like that
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feels like the logical conclusion of
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sends up well that wouldn't be good with
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a big black box around Trafalgar Square
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everybody wants that nobody wants that
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except someone going like well you know
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it would save us a lot of money every
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year on meeting its cost like yeah I'm
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sure it would I'm sure it goddamn would
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it's fine but like the last thing I just
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want to mention about this is the
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juggling guy reminded me of something
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that I haven't thought about in years
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but as soon as I saw his video I was
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like oh yeah I forgot about this event
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so this is something like maybe 7 years
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ago now my wife and I thought that we
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might be leaving London permanently we
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weren't sure this is the time of my life
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where I sort of ended up living in
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Hawaii for a little bit but we were
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thinking there's a good possibility that
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we're leaving London and we won't come
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back obviously that didn't happen but we
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thought that at the time and now the
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place where my wife and I met each other
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in person for the first time was
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Trafalgar Square if you are standing at
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the National Gallery and you are looking
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toward Nelson's column we actually met
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right beneath the paws of one of those
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lions and it'd be the lion on the left
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hand side that is where we met for the
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first time and so when we were leaving
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London we thought you know what might be
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nice is let's take some really nice
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photographs of ourselves in Trafalgar
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Square as just like a little memory and
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momento of here's a city that we really
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like and here's the place that we met so
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my wife and I we got dressed up all nice
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and fancy my wife had a bunch of very
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high-end photography gear and we got up
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super early in the morning and we went
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out to Trafalgar Square and we thought
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okay we're gonna take some photographs
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of ourselves at sunrise right like we
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get there there is nobody in Trafalgar
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Square the place is totally empty it's
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just my wife and I and she sets up her
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camera on the tripod so that we can take
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some pictures of us in various locations
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and we're there for mere minutes before
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out of nowhere a guard comes along and
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tells us that we're not allowed to be
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taking these pictures in Trafalgar
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Square it's like are you serious man
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like is this is this something that's
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really happening right now he goes yeah
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well you're not allowed to do commercial
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photography like okay but we're taking
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pictures of ourselves
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for us lives like this isn't commercial
◼
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photography look what are you talking
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about there goes uh well you have a
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tripod with that camera so it must be
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commercial photography there's no
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tripods allowed in Trafalgar Square for
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taking photographs it's one of these
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things where it's just so crazy making
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you feel like you're in this bizarro
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moment of weight like presumably you
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don't want tripods in Trafalgar Square
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because they take up a lot of space and
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there's a lot of people here but there's
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only three humans in the world in
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Trafalgar Square right now it's like my
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wife myself and this guy telling us that
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we're not allowed to take these pictures
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it was just like this incredibly
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frustrating back-and-forth where we're
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trying to convince this guy like we're
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not taking commercial photographs and
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he's like well why are you dressed up
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all nice and like he just wouldn't let
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it go and he's like now you can't do
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►
this you got to go you got to get out of
◼
►
here and not take these nice uh memento
◼
►
photographs of yourself bothering no one
◼
►
at 6:00 a.m. or whatever in Trafalgar
◼
►
Square how did that end did you walk
◼
►
away with the tie between your legs or
◼
►
did you stand up for your rights and
◼
►
sock him once I didn't punch him if
◼
►
that's what you're saying all right well
◼
►
here's an interesting thing which is
◼
►
that we knew in advance that Trafalgar
◼
►
Square and there's one other place in
◼
►
the UK which have really strange rules
◼
►
around photography inside of them
◼
►
they're super harsh on commercial
◼
►
photography and getting filming rights
◼
►
and all the rest of this yeah because
◼
►
it's a revenue stream yeah and it's like
◼
►
again also for doing like filming stuff
◼
►
there it makes total sense because you
◼
►
see movies and TV shows being filmed in
◼
►
Trafalgar Square and they have to close
◼
►
the whole place down it's like yeah of
◼
►
course that makes sense because it's a
◼
►
big hassle like it takes up the square
◼
►
bla bla bla but I think it's a very big
◼
►
difference between that kind of thing
◼
►
and to people who are just like no we're
◼
►
taking photographs for ourselves like we
◼
►
don't have a crew here there's just two
◼
►
people and we've come at a time that's
◼
►
bothering no one the problem is you two
◼
►
is so damn good-looking he probably
◼
►
thought you were both models yes I'm
◼
►
sure that is precisely what it was he's
◼
►
like oh look at these amazingly
◼
►
good-looking people they must be models
◼
►
but so all we did was like the dude was
◼
►
super frustrating and we went up the
◼
►
staircase and sort of by the National
◼
►
Gallery and just waited for a little bit
◼
►
he wandered around and then seemed to
◼
►
disappear from somewhere so he just went
◼
►
back out and took a bunch of photos and
◼
►
then left it's just it's just like what
◼
►
the lion is like okay sure mr. guard
◼
►
like I know you're gonna stand here
◼
►
you're gonna take the camera if
◼
►
leave it on the tripod and try to take
◼
►
some pictures of ourselves so I'm just
◼
►
gonna wait until you're further away and
◼
►
out of eyesight and then just do it
◼
►
again and then leave but it's like yeah
◼
►
Jeff allgor square no fun zone for a
◼
►
long time and the ratchet is only
◼
►
getting turned up the whole professional
◼
►
photography thing also it must be
◼
►
getting just impossible to police
◼
►
because any amateur these days you know
◼
►
has a tripod and a posh camera and a
◼
►
nice lens but also you could be there
◼
►
just clowning around on your iPhone and
◼
►
you could be some youtuber making your
◼
►
video that's gonna get watched by 30
◼
►
million people how they're policing that
◼
►
I've got no idea it doesn't make any
◼
►
sense I think especially with YouTube
◼
►
the whole notion of commercial is very
◼
►
strange because I took some videos of
◼
►
the signs in Trafalgar Square and I put
◼
►
that up on my second channel and the
◼
►
second channel does have ads that run on
◼
►
that video so like was I commercially
◼
►
filming in Trafalgar Square on my iPhone
◼
►
it's like I guess by have a letter of
◼
►
the law I was but by no reasonable
◼
►
person's definition would you say oh
◼
►
that was a commercial filming operation
◼
►
lock him up lock him up it is very funny
◼
►
because that you also see when I was
◼
►
there on that day I did see a bunch of
◼
►
people with what I think of as like the
◼
►
the KC nice tat filming set up where
◼
►
they have a very impressive looking
◼
►
canon camera with a little road
◼
►
microphone attachment on the top and the
◼
►
gorilla pod stand to hold it in their
◼
►
hands and it is it's this funny thing of
◼
►
like is that just some kid filming stuff
◼
►
for himself right or is that a vlogger
◼
►
with millions and millions of
◼
►
subscribers like you don't know and then
◼
►
is that a commercial operation or not it
◼
►
really is crazy and it's unbelievable
◼
►
I was actually alerted to this situation
◼
►
by a couple of Tim's who I think had go
◼
►
onto the square they're from San
◼
►
Francisco but they were holidaying in
◼
►
London I was a married couple and they'd
◼
►
gone to the square I think for a little
◼
►
bit of gray inspired civil disobedience
◼
►
and they obviously saw this roped-off
◼
►
area and realized they couldn't get up
◼
►
on the lines so they took like a photo
◼
►
and posted it on Twitter sort of saying
◼
►
look how unfun the no-fun zone is now
◼
►
and I saw this and I just happened to be
◼
►
my way into London where I had meetings
◼
►
that day right near Trafalgar Square and
◼
►
I felt so bad I felt like I had to do my
◼
►
bit for London and for the UK I didn't
◼
►
want them leaving thinking so terribly
◼
►
of Trafalgar Square so I did message
◼
►
them on Twitter and I said I'll tell you
◼
►
what if you're in that same place at six
◼
►
o'clock tonight I'll come and say hello
◼
►
and let's take a better photo
◼
►
so sure enough we went later on and they
◼
►
turned up and like we get our own little
◼
►
photoshoot and funnily enough I think
◼
►
that photoshoot may have been with your
◼
►
love lion because as I think about it
◼
►
now it was that lion on the left nearest
◼
►
the gallery as you look down mm-hmm from
◼
►
the gallery so I think we were doing our
◼
►
little photo at the grail of life we
◼
►
didn't get stopped by the way kudos to
◼
►
the first person that goes on to
◼
►
Wikipedia and refers to that line as the
◼
►
love line right now brady you're just
◼
►
encouraging Wikipedia vandalism that we
◼
►
don't promote that on the show don't do
◼
►
that you wouldn't want to cause but
◼
►
could be view problems I don't want to
◼
►
tell you that I don't want to tell you
◼
►
that you're so good to the tim's brady
◼
►
you really are taking photographs in
◼
►
Trafalgar Square manufacturing shoes
◼
►
getting vinyl records printed you're
◼
►
very good to the audience you always put
◼
►
me to shame with that no I was writing
◼
►
hereby and like they had previously
◼
►
posted another picture as well where
◼
►
they had been at the San Francisco
◼
►
baseball stadium sitting like near where
◼
►
I sat when I went as well so they'd been
◼
►
goodtimz our like rewarding good Tim
◼
►
äj-- this episode of Hello Internet is
◼
►
brought to you in part by Squarespace
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Squarespace is everything you need to
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create a website of your own even if you
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hello so get started right now with your
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Squarespace for supporting the show so
◼
►
gray in the last podcast I talked about
◼
►
how traffic responds to ambulances and
◼
►
you know people getting out the way of
◼
►
ambulances and that caused lots of
◼
►
interesting discussion and there was
◼
►
lots of legal debate and things like
◼
►
that and there's no need to go over all
◼
►
that again I think it's been well and
◼
►
truly thrashed out on the reddit but one
◼
►
thing I said that caused some
◼
►
controversy was I referred to the
◼
►
drivers of ambulances as ambulance
◼
►
drivers mm-hmm and I don't know if you
◼
►
have seen some of the reaction this
◼
►
course I said at the time that a lot of
◼
►
people who work in ambulances listen to
◼
►
the podcast and that was proven to be
◼
►
true because they all got in touch I
◼
►
have seen very much of this as well yes
◼
►
and basically that to summarize their
◼
►
argument I supposedly have done them a
◼
►
disservice by referring to them as
◼
►
ambulance drivers as mere ambulance
◼
►
drivers because they are trained
◼
►
paramedics and they don't take well to
◼
►
being called ambulance drivers and I was
◼
►
wondering how you felt about this how
◼
►
you felt to this admonishment that I
◼
►
received it's a funny thing because I
◼
►
feel like there is a presumption from
◼
►
the people who are paramedics about a
◼
►
thing that we're saying which were not
◼
►
because when I say something like
◼
►
ambulance driver which is the phrase
◼
►
that I also used I feel like in my mind
◼
►
you can translate that into like a hero
◼
►
among men right like like that person is
◼
►
doing like awesome cool danger is
◼
►
driving down the roads like they're
◼
►
going to literally save lives yeah
◼
►
they're going in all of these dangerous
◼
►
situations there was no suggestion they
◼
►
were not trained to do it as well
◼
►
not-here is like ambulance driver it
◼
►
does not equate to like uber driver like
◼
►
dude with a car right who's just doing a
◼
►
thing that is not the comparison in my
◼
►
mind like I can totally understand from
◼
►
the perspective of a paramedic like you
◼
►
go through a whole bunch of training and
◼
►
then you you have a title that you are a
◼
►
paramedic that means a particular thing
◼
►
whereas when we're talking about it at
◼
►
least in my head it's all kind of mushed
◼
►
together where it's like oh yes of
◼
►
ambulance drivers and paramedics like
◼
►
these are just people who are saving
◼
►
people's lives I and they are incredibly
◼
►
valuable members of society and they do
◼
►
great things we got a lot of feedback
◼
►
because I can understand why from the
◼
►
perspective of a paramedic they might
◼
►
feel like being referred to as an
◼
►
ambulance driver is less than what they
◼
►
are but that is by no means the feeling
◼
►
in at least my head and I presume your
◼
►
head when you are discussing what these
◼
►
can I second what gray just said but can
◼
►
I also add with all the love in the
◼
►
world to those paramedics get off your
◼
►
whoa because I accept that you have this
◼
►
incredible training and knowledge that I
◼
►
don't have and I'm so thankful for what
◼
►
you do and I think you're heroes and you
◼
►
know one day one of you might be leaning
◼
►
over me to save my life and I hope
◼
►
you're not still angry at me at that
◼
►
point and the words he will say is he's
◼
►
putting the mask over your face are your
◼
►
Brady Haran yeah has this on your high
◼
►
horse but no the thing is like yes you
◼
►
have all this medical training but at
◼
►
that moment in time when you are driving
◼
►
the ambulance to me you are an ambulance
◼
►
driver and that also is important and
◼
►
amazing and well trained and brilliant
◼
►
mm-hmm but a person driving an ambulance
◼
►
is an ambulance driver kind of like by
◼
►
definition even if they've stolen it
◼
►
they're an ambulance driver at that
◼
►
point in time and if like say someone
◼
►
drove into the front wall of my house
◼
►
tomorrow and knocked over the wall and I
◼
►
was upset at them and I was like here on
◼
►
the podcast complaining about it and I
◼
►
said oh great gonna believe it like some
◼
►
car driver drove into my wall and
◼
►
knocked it over yesterday they're not
◼
►
gonna call me up and say well actually I
◼
►
happen to be a brain surgeon and I'd
◼
►
prefer if you'd said a brain surgeon
◼
►
my world yesterday like yes maybe you
◼
►
are a brain surgeon but at the time you
◼
►
were driving the car and knocking over
◼
►
the wall all you were to me was the
◼
►
likewise when someone is driving an
◼
►
ambulance past me at high speed just go
◼
►
and save a life at that point in time
◼
►
you're an ambulance driver and I think
◼
►
it's a fair description of what you are
◼
►
and trust me you know if I am out in the
◼
►
field making one of my videos and a
◼
►
little kid says mommy mommy look at that
◼
►
cameraman over there I'm not gonna turn
◼
►
around and say excuse me
◼
►
I'm a trained journalist and I have
◼
►
interview skills and I also do the
◼
►
editing and I've also put things
◼
►
together and I'm gonna create a lovely
◼
►
narrative out of the story I just think
◼
►
okay I'm a cameraman at the moment
◼
►
oh my god okay a few things I feel like
◼
►
I cannot go down this line of reasoning
◼
►
with you the thing is I would bet so
◼
►
much money in real life that you would
◼
►
turn to that kid and be like excuse me I
◼
►
am a trained journalist like everything
◼
►
I know about you everything about our
◼
►
private conversations to me like are all
◼
►
arrows pointing in the direction of yes
◼
►
Brady would tell that child that he is a
◼
►
trained journalist and not really a
◼
►
cameraman in that moment that you've got
◼
►
that wrong you've got that wrong but
◼
►
putting that aside the ambulance driver
◼
►
thing okay so if you were in that field
◼
►
filming a video about ambulances and
◼
►
they let you drive the ambulance would
◼
►
you say that you were an ambulance
◼
►
driver in that moment no okay you caught
◼
►
me out there okay perhaps using the
◼
►
notion of someone having stolen the
◼
►
ambulance was maybe me taking a little
◼
►
bit of dramatic license the amusement of
◼
►
our listeners but I do think it is fair
◼
►
to call someone who is earning money
◼
►
while driving the ambulance an ambulance
◼
►
driver and yes they also have an even
◼
►
more important role to play but in the
◼
►
context of my story mhm
◼
►
all that mattered was that their own
◼
►
ambulance driver so here's the thing
◼
►
that I'm a little bit foggy on so the
◼
►
preferred term is paramedic
◼
►
I feel like I don't understand very
◼
►
clearly the boundaries of this word
◼
►
because do paramedics only exist in some
◼
►
form of transit like I'm thinking about
◼
►
right a paramedic is coming in and
◼
►
ambulance where a paramedic is coming in
◼
►
a helicopter do paramedics operate
◼
►
inside of the hospital or do they
◼
►
operate exclusively outside of the
◼
►
hospital in transit back to it like I
◼
►
don't understand actually very clearly
◼
►
where the boundaries of this are you're
◼
►
asking me I'm already in trouble for not
◼
►
knowing this so you don't ask me okay
◼
►
I'm looking at now while I look this up
◼
►
I have another question I want to throw
◼
►
out there to the paramedics if you're a
◼
►
paramedic and you lose your driver's
◼
►
license let's say for drink-driving I'm
◼
►
assuming you can't now drive the
◼
►
ambulance are you still a paramedic if
◼
►
you can't drive an ambulance who drives
◼
►
are there any just bespoke ambulance
◼
►
drivers you know I Drive the ambulance
◼
►
but like I've got nothing about the
◼
►
human body like I just get the
◼
►
paramedics there to those people even
◼
►
exist that's a very interesting question
◼
►
I feel like economies tend towards
◼
►
specialization I feel like somewhere in
◼
►
some country this has to be a clear
◼
►
division of labor that there does exist
◼
►
someone who is an ambulance driver only
◼
►
who's trained on racetracks and like
◼
►
pretend villages to be able to drive
◼
►
around corners because that seems like a
◼
►
very different skill sets from being
◼
►
able to stop someone from bleeding to
◼
►
death in their kitchen I don't think
◼
►
there's necessarily overlap so there
◼
►
must be someplace that has this division
◼
►
of labor I'm sure we'll find out from
◼
►
all of the paramedics well we're not
◼
►
gonna find out from the paramedic
◼
►
Wikipedia page because that's a little
◼
►
bit nebulous I was looking over that too
◼
►
and I'm like I'm getting no help from
◼
►
your Wikipedia page this is now what I'm
◼
►
looking for plays plays plays nuisance
◼
►
Tim make the term ambulance driver
◼
►
redirect to paramedic Brady you you are
◼
►
such a troublemaker it's a thing I have
◼
►
to disapprove of greatly in your
◼
►
personality so these are the questions
◼
►
are there people who are ambulance
◼
►
drivers only and do paramedics only
◼
►
exist in transit from location our
◼
►
paramedics do they not exist inside of a
◼
►
hospital I feel like this is this is
◼
►
what we need to know please go to the
◼
►
reddit's and have a big angry discussion
◼
►
about it I'm feeling a bit bad about
◼
►
this Wikipedia thing I'll tell you what
◼
►
if you are a Wikipedia mischief-maker
◼
►
not only are you very naughty and we
◼
►
proof of that but I hope at least once a
◼
►
year you make a donation to the wiki
◼
►
foundation to support them because like
◼
►
Wikipedia is pretty important it's one
◼
►
of the few things that like when I get
◼
►
pestered about donations on the Internet
◼
►
I will sometimes say you know what I
◼
►
like Wikipedia I'm gonna check him a few
◼
►
bucks that is the same in our household
◼
►
because yes it is Wikipedia it's super
◼
►
fun to mess with and it is also maybe
◼
►
one of the most important things for
◼
►
civilization that has emerged in the
◼
►
past 20 years it's on both sides of
◼
►
those scales support your local
◼
►
Wikipedia people was that an NPR joke I
◼
►
don't know what that was I feel like
◼
►
I've heard that phrase but I wasn't
◼
►
intentionally making an NPR joke because
◼
►
like this is something that's been on my
◼
►
mind lately and you've just brought it
◼
►
up by accident but I don't listen to NPR
◼
►
radio because I live in England right
◼
►
but I do listen to lots of NPR podcasts
◼
►
an NPR podcasts are obviously supported
◼
►
through like the NPR pot of money and I
◼
►
think they've gotten themselves into
◼
►
this weird antiquated situation now
◼
►
where there's obviously some turf war
◼
►
going on and there's a lot of politics
◼
►
involved because whenever you're
◼
►
listening to the podcasts they always
◼
►
say if you want to support the podcast
◼
►
and give money so we can keep making
◼
►
this excellent podcast right go to your
◼
►
local radio station and give them money
◼
►
because some of that money will find its
◼
►
way here and that's what keeps the
◼
►
podcast guy and I understand the
◼
►
situation that has come about and why
◼
►
this has happened but I think at some
◼
►
stage in PR are gonna have to say do you
◼
►
know are like our podcasts are really
◼
►
popular now and people want to give them
◼
►
money but they don't want to do this
◼
►
like indirect weird thing where they
◼
►
have to go to their radio station and
◼
►
prop up the radio station yeah let's
◼
►
keep getting their podcast yeah so I
◼
►
think NPR needs to soon revisit this
◼
►
situation where their podcasts are
◼
►
saying hey go to your local radio
◼
►
station and give them money I understand
◼
►
the politics I can see what's happened
◼
►
as old media versus new media thing
◼
►
going on within the one organization but
◼
►
it's very strange to me and it's
◼
►
starting to sound strange that makes no
◼
►
sense to me so you're listening to an
◼
►
NPR podcast yeah so I'm listening to it
◼
►
and they say if you like this and you
◼
►
want to give us money here's what you do
◼
►
go to your local NPR radio station and
◼
►
give them money okay so I am Joe Johnson
◼
►
listening in Boise Idaho and I like a
◼
►
podcast from Washington about about
◼
►
Washington politics or something Yeah
◼
►
right it's not about Boise it's some NPR
◼
►
podcast broadcast to everybody and yeah
◼
►
in theory the thing that I'm supposed to
◼
►
do is find Boise radio be qrx 103.2 and
◼
►
hand them an envelope full of cash like
◼
►
that seems so crazy I don't even
◼
►
understand how that mechanism is
◼
►
supposed to work that is so weird it's a
◼
►
bit like us saying if you like hello
◼
►
internet and want to support Brady and
◼
►
gray give money to my best friends
◼
►
cousins sisters brother cuz I owe him
◼
►
money for something I borrowed from him
◼
►
and that will really help me out people
◼
►
will know I don't do that yeah I would
◼
►
never do that they need to set up crowd
◼
►
funding for the podcast that seems like
◼
►
what they should do and clearly I mean I
◼
►
can see what's happened obviously this
◼
►
is the huge radio infrastructure which
◼
►
is probably crumbling in some way
◼
►
because of everyone's listening to
◼
►
podcasts instead of radio and the radio
◼
►
people are like worried that they're
◼
►
gonna cease to exist totally be worried
◼
►
they are on the way out and you don't
◼
►
need to explain to me that that the
◼
►
journalism of the radio stations feeds
◼
►
into the podcast I understand all that
◼
►
there's a New York Times podcast I
◼
►
listen to sometimes and they always say
◼
►
hey people always ask how to give money
◼
►
the best thing you can do is get a
◼
►
subscription to The New York Times
◼
►
because that's the journalistic engine
◼
►
that keeps this podcast going and again
◼
►
that's true but it's that extra layer of
◼
►
abstraction that I think makes you
◼
►
resistant the New York Times one is at
◼
►
least to me a much straighter arrow yes
◼
►
this is the parent organization the New
◼
►
York Times give us some money to support
◼
►
the podcast it's very interesting from a
◼
►
big organization perspective of like if
◼
►
you want people to give you money how to
◼
►
do it I feel like in that situation
◼
►
let's say there was a podcast from the
◼
►
New York Times I was listening to and
◼
►
that I liked and I want to support it
◼
►
like I would feel a little bit of a
◼
►
weirdness giving to the New York Times
◼
►
as a whole because I feel like but I
◼
►
want to give it to this exact podcast
◼
►
yeah but you can see that the New York
◼
►
Times organization wants the money to go
◼
►
to the parent organization not to the
◼
►
podcast in particular and of course like
◼
►
is fungible for an organization like
◼
►
that it doesn't really matter
◼
►
yeah but I'm thinking like if NPR was
◼
►
I think the institution's instinct would
◼
►
be to do the thing that would probably
◼
►
get them less money overall which is to
◼
►
have one gigantic contribute to NPR fund
◼
►
as opposed to setting up a whole bunch
◼
►
of contribute to this particular podcast
◼
►
funds even if they had some little
◼
►
disclaimer like oh you're contributing
◼
►
to podcast X and 50% of the revenue that
◼
►
goes to podcast X goes to the parent
◼
►
organization as well hmm
◼
►
like I'd be willing to bet they would
◼
►
make more revenue overall by asking for
◼
►
donations to particular podcast than to
◼
►
the parent organization but also bet
◼
►
they would never actually set it up that
◼
►
speaking of big organizations let me
◼
►
tell you a funny thing that happened to
◼
►
me yesterday I went to my local gym I
◼
►
just want to sit in the jacuzzi actually
◼
►
so I went along and I sat in the jacuzzi
◼
►
because I that's what I wanted all right
◼
►
this is what I wanted and where my sort
◼
►
of gym is is sort of connected to this
◼
►
posh hotel and guests of the posh hotel
◼
►
used the same facility and this hotel
◼
►
always hosts like away days and weddings
◼
►
and stuff like that right so I was
◼
►
sitting in the jacuzzi for probably half
◼
►
an hour and there was obviously this big
◼
►
away day happening at the hotel they
◼
►
were all men all these men who were at
◼
►
this away day for this business came and
◼
►
sat in the jacuzzi around me so there
◼
►
was like probably eight of us and the
◼
►
seven of them worked for this business
◼
►
and they were talking about their work
◼
►
and then a few of them got out and then
◼
►
a couple more came and then a few of
◼
►
others got out and a couple more came
◼
►
and over the course of half an hour
◼
►
probably 16 or 17 people that worked for
◼
►
this business set in the jacuzzi with me
◼
►
and they spent the whole time talking
◼
►
about their work non-stop the politics
◼
►
of how bills lazy and isn't pulling his
◼
►
weight and this email and their email
◼
►
and this report I had to fill out and
◼
►
this thing I had to do they never
◼
►
stopped talking about their work the
◼
►
whole time the whole half hour I was in
◼
►
the jacuzzi and it was only at the very
◼
►
very end it suddenly occurred to me
◼
►
after listening to these people talk
◼
►
non-stop about their work for half an
◼
►
hour I had no idea what they did or what
◼
►
business not one single thing gave away
◼
►
what their business was and it made me
◼
►
realize how universal people complaining
◼
►
about their work is like I even said to
◼
►
them at the end guys I've been listening
◼
►
to you guys for the last half an hour I
◼
►
have no idea what you do like what's
◼
►
your business like and they all laughed
◼
►
and like they realized like at certain
◼
►
points I was like I thought I'd figured
◼
►
it out and I was transposing different
◼
►
businesses on to what they did they
◼
►
could they could have been a bunch of
◼
►
journalists seriously they could have
◼
►
been they could have been accountants at
◼
►
one point I thought they were like
◼
►
estate agents and things like that I
◼
►
couldn't figure out what they were doing
◼
►
listening to them talk for half an hour
◼
►
part of it made me miss working because
◼
►
they had such comradery and you know but
◼
►
another part of me made me realize well
◼
►
working in their organizations pretty
◼
►
crappy yeah you're always getting sucked
◼
►
as soon as you get past maybe five
◼
►
people working together it's it's like
◼
►
politics starts to happen it's just a
◼
►
natural side-effect of the way humans
◼
►
are so what was the business I have to
◼
►
know now even when they told me I still
◼
►
don't know what they did cuz apparently
◼
►
they worked in operations for a retail
◼
►
organization okay okay yeah so I don't
◼
►
know exactly what that means does that
◼
►
mean is there like head office for a
◼
►
shop I don't know this scenario when I'm
◼
►
talking to somebody and I get an answer
◼
►
about their job that's what you should
◼
►
say your job is when you don't want
◼
►
people to ask questions because as soon
◼
►
as they said operations for a retail
◼
►
organization I just shut up yeah you
◼
►
know what that's that's not a bad idea
◼
►
I work in digital operations I mean the
◼
►
thing I wanted to say when they said
◼
►
that was what retail organization then I
◼
►
was a stranger and I just basically had
◼
►
told these people I've been listening to
◼
►
you gossip I would have looked like some
◼
►
kind of industrial spy or like
◼
►
investigative journalist if I said what
◼
►
organization yeah give me names you
◼
►
bring out a little waterproof notepad to
◼
►
write things down any oh yeah
◼
►
interesting I think what's happening
◼
►
here is there is like a larger and
◼
►
larger portion of the economy which is
◼
►
not directly involved in doing the thing
◼
►
but is instead involved in managing
◼
►
doing the thing yeah and I feel like
◼
►
this is why is an incredibly common
◼
►
experience to run into people and it's
◼
►
everybody seems to be like so what do
◼
►
like I don't understand on making a
◼
►
thing you're overseeing people who make
◼
►
a thing or you're overseeing departments
◼
►
of people who make a thing it just feels
◼
►
like the economy leans more towards
◼
►
layers of management and I'm not even
◼
►
saying that those layers are unnecessary
◼
►
like I think as the economy gets more
◼
►
complicated it shouldn't be surprised
◼
►
that more and more people are involved
◼
►
in which you could broadly call like
◼
►
management or logistics like that
◼
►
becomes more and more vital as a thing
◼
►
to do yeah but I do have this let's call
◼
►
it like not really great pro-social
◼
►
tendency that in these moments when
◼
►
somebody gives me an answer like that I
◼
►
have a very hard time not like drilling
◼
►
down with the person precisely what it
◼
►
is that they do it almost always ends up
◼
►
in this thing where is like oh if I'm
◼
►
meeting with someone on a Friday the
◼
►
conversation will bend towards be like
◼
►
okay look I still don't understand this
◼
►
morning when you went when you went into
◼
►
work is like 9:00 a.m. what was the
◼
►
thing that you did it's like this line
◼
►
of questioning makes people really
◼
►
uncomfortable yeah it would have made
◼
►
them more uncomfortable because our bare
◼
►
legs were touching underwater I could
◼
►
see how that definitely encourages a
◼
►
little bit of social walk for this I
◼
►
love the fact that you're chatting with
◼
►
a bunch of other guys in the jacuzzi
◼
►
after spying on them for a while that's
◼
►
it's like oh I wanted to go out with him
◼
►
they were planning their night out
◼
►
sounds like they were gonna have a big
◼
►
night out though talking about what pub
◼
►
they were gonna go to and go out
◼
►
drinking and I was like oh yeah that's
◼
►
fantastic and then these guys are
◼
►
wondering who the hell is this hanger I
◼
►
know from the way they were talking
◼
►
they'd probably just think I was one of
◼
►
them like I didn't think anyone knew who
◼
►
anyone was like who is that guy Arden hi
◼
►
you must be in I thought you knew who he
◼
►
I don't know he seems to fit in you
◼
►
could have totally blended right in this
◼
►
is like an American Psycho situation
◼
►
where none of these guys really know who
◼
►
the other guys are anyway so what's it
◼
►
this episode of Hello Internet is
◼
►
brought to you in part by audible
◼
►
audible is a leading provider of premium
◼
►
digital spoken audio information and
◼
►
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◼
►
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at audible.com slash hello internet
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that's where you should go right now
◼
►
audible.com slash hello internet to get
◼
►
a free audiobook with your 30 day trial
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now audible as always likes for us to
◼
►
recommend a book so I recently read a
◼
►
book that I can highly recommend and
◼
►
it's tribe by Sebastian Junger he's the
◼
►
same guy who wrote a perfect storm if
◼
►
you ever read that it's a little bit of
◼
►
a difficult book to describe but I can
◼
►
briefly say that it is a little bit
◼
►
about people in war particularly men in
◼
►
war and how that affects them it talks
◼
►
about some of the difficult things like
◼
►
why is it that some soldiers really find
◼
►
solace in being in a group in war and
◼
►
why they can have difficulty
◼
►
reintegrating into society afterwards
◼
►
that makes the book sound like it's a
◼
►
huge downer but I actually found it a
◼
►
fascinating non downer read and it's
◼
►
also very short which is the thing that
◼
►
I really appreciate in books sometimes
◼
►
so if you're looking for a book to try
◼
►
maybe something that's a little bit
◼
►
different than what you would normally
◼
►
do give tribe a try on audible.com so if
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►
you want to listen to it audible has it
◼
►
with an unmatched selection of audio
◼
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◼
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hello Internet that's a you DIBL EECOM
◼
►
slash hello Internet I remember when
◼
►
Theresa May the prime minister of the UK
◼
►
which is prime minister as I'm speaking
◼
►
now I don't know what the situation
◼
►
would be with this podcast goes out the
◼
►
prime minister who called the snap
◼
►
election to consolidate her power as we
◼
►
discussed and I couldn't resist
◼
►
on election night when it all went wrong
◼
►
for her and she lost her majority and it
◼
►
must have been one of the less enjoyable
◼
►
evenings of her professional career I
◼
►
couldn't resist going back to your tweet
◼
►
and when the election was first called
◼
►
where you just had the Jurassic Park
◼
►
meme of clever girl and I remember you
◼
►
talking about it on the podcast her you
◼
►
talked about what a genius move it was
◼
►
people had to vote for her she cornered
◼
►
them in such a clever way that they had
◼
►
no choice but to vote for her and
◼
►
increase her power for those who don't
◼
►
know that's not how it played out then
◼
►
she went from having a small majority in
◼
►
the House of Commons to having no
◼
►
majority in the House of Commons how are
◼
►
you feeling now are you feeling sheepish
◼
►
so I didn't follow the election at all
◼
►
between that tweet and then when
◼
►
somebody sent me a message about like oh
◼
►
there's a coalition government in the UK
◼
►
now like as far as on my radar
◼
►
like the whole election disappeared and
◼
►
then just reappeared several weeks later
◼
►
yeah it's interesting and from my
◼
►
perspective I have no idea what happened
◼
►
in the intermediate time what's happen
◼
►
is she's obviously in the minority she
◼
►
hasn't got enough votes to get anything
◼
►
through okay but what she's doing is
◼
►
rather than forming a coalition which is
◼
►
what happened a couple of elections ago
◼
►
between the Conservatives and the
◼
►
Liberal Democrats right what she's
◼
►
trying to do as we're speaking now it
◼
►
hasn't actually been signed and it's
◼
►
causing controversy for some other
◼
►
reasons that I won't bore you with but
◼
►
what she's trying to do is broker a deal
◼
►
with a political party the DUP from
◼
►
Northern Ireland mm-hmm who have some
◼
►
handful of seats in the Commons but
◼
►
they've got just enough seats to give
◼
►
her a majority so what she's doing is
◼
►
she's trying to broker a deal with them
◼
►
where they're not in coalition and they
◼
►
don't have to support her laws and all
◼
►
her votes and everything she does but
◼
►
they do agree to support her on two
◼
►
important things confidence and supply
◼
►
so if there's a no confidence vote they
◼
►
agree to support the government so the
◼
►
government can stay in government and if
◼
►
there's something that's going to block
◼
►
up the money in the budget supply they
◼
►
also will support the government on that
◼
►
so it's not a coalition they don't have
◼
►
like you know oh interests they're not
◼
►
part of the government it's just an
◼
►
agreement to support them on those two
◼
►
crucial things and everything else is
◼
►
gonna be just chaos and what they're
◼
►
gonna get for that deal is yet to be
◼
►
finalized like you know lb suddenly
◼
►
gonna get lots of shiny new gorgeous
◼
►
infrastructure in certain parts of
◼
►
Northern Ireland as a result of this I
◼
►
imagine that might happen yes but of
◼
►
course the problem is Northern Ireland
◼
►
is deeply deeply divided between its own
◼
►
parties like the DUP lynchin phone well
◼
►
we're not going to go into that but
◼
►
obviously like shin vain and these other
◼
►
parties in Northern Ireland like hang on
◼
►
a second you're the UK government you're
◼
►
supposed to in some ways kind of
◼
►
keep out of the Northern Ireland mess
◼
►
you know there's agreements here that
◼
►
have been made and now you're like
◼
►
budding up with just one of the parties
◼
►
to get their votes so more messes to
◼
►
come as we speak now this agreement
◼
►
that's very interesting I thought she
◼
►
had formed an official coalition this is
◼
►
a much more interesting situation the UK
◼
►
government sort of kind of taking aside
◼
►
in the Northern Irish politics like boy
◼
►
that sounds like a whole bunch and not
◼
►
fun I like this idea that there's a
◼
►
coalition that is a it's like an
◼
►
unofficial official coalition is what's
◼
►
happening here which is amazing because
◼
►
it sounds like maximum instability now
◼
►
it's like coalition's people always
◼
►
worry about them being unstable and now
◼
►
to not even have a coalition is unstable
◼
►
err that's fantastic I don't know what
◼
►
the betting markets are saying at the
◼
►
moment but a lot of people are saying
◼
►
that they'll probably be another
◼
►
oh really interesting I think not but
◼
►
why do you think not because I mean one
◼
►
of the reasons this election went so
◼
►
pear-shaped I think for Teresa may was
◼
►
like election fatigue and I think people
◼
►
are sick of having elections all the
◼
►
time and they thought she was having
◼
►
another one to be a bit greedy people
◼
►
wanted to give her bit of a bloody nose
◼
►
for that well they did for whatever
◼
►
reason so I think if there's another
◼
►
election this year it will be one that's
◼
►
kind of forced upon them certainly I
◼
►
don't think the Conservative Party would
◼
►
risk holding it but I don't know what do
◼
►
I don't know much your bet is that if
◼
►
there is another election it would just
◼
►
be simply because the government just
◼
►
falls apart it is in essentially
◼
►
dissolves yeah and we have another
◼
►
election interesting folks two paces
◼
►
yeah it's interesting because again I I
◼
►
didn't follow any of the things going on
◼
►
but the reason I thought it was such a
◼
►
clever move is because I did have this
◼
►
feeling like boy really boxed in to
◼
►
having to support Theresa May because
◼
►
like my feeling is the result we have
◼
►
now is kind like the worst of everything
◼
►
because if brexit is going to happen
◼
►
even though i am not in favor of brexit
◼
►
i would still want the UK government to
◼
►
be in the strongest negotiating position
◼
►
for brexit to occur otherwise it feels
◼
►
like cutting your nose to spite your
◼
►
face hmm and so that's why I thought
◼
►
like oh man this elections lockdown be
◼
►
because everyone else is gonna make this
◼
►
kind of like same game theory
◼
►
calculation like well we don't want
◼
►
brexit to happen but if it's gonna
◼
►
happen like we might as well make our
◼
►
position super strong now it feels like
◼
►
oh god here we go like well the UK is
◼
►
wandering into brexit with a real bloody
◼
►
nose before the negotiations have even
◼
►
really begun I feel like this is not a
◼
►
good situation I tell you one thing
◼
►
that's interesting that I mean I know
◼
►
you and I are not you know we don't talk
◼
►
a lot of politics and stuff and you know
◼
►
especially you aren't particularly
◼
►
interested but this does mean that if
◼
►
BRICS it goes ahead which it seems like
◼
►
it still will you being so wrong about
◼
►
the general election does mean you're
◼
►
probably more likely to be right now
◼
►
about your bricks at prediction and that
◼
►
is everyone seems to agree now that soft
◼
►
brexit is much more likely than hard
◼
►
brick so we seem to be drifting towards
◼
►
a hard brick set before this election
◼
►
and now soft bricks that seems like the
◼
►
more likely scenario yeah I don't know
◼
►
it's like I still feel like with all of
◼
►
this stuff there's some weird part of me
◼
►
which still thinks like this will just
◼
►
never be resolved right but this will
◼
►
just go on forever and ever even though
◼
►
I know that it can't like article 50 has
◼
►
been triggered yeah there's some part of
◼
►
me which just can't let go of the idea
◼
►
of like man people can stall forever
◼
►
sometimes and are we just are we just
◼
►
going to be left in a limbo that just
◼
►
never ends that's a remain of fantasy
◼
►
then that remain a fantasy suddenly
◼
►
became a little bit more possible I
◼
►
think it's still a fantasy but I
◼
►
obviously was hoping we would stay in
◼
►
the EU as well so the idea of it falling
◼
►
apart delights me but I don't know if
◼
►
it'll happen or not but yeah I think it
◼
►
won't I don't think it will fall apart
◼
►
something happens or endless negotiation
◼
►
happens but those are different from it
◼
►
falling apart I don't know it's been a
◼
►
real interesting time with elections
◼
►
that's for sure and I feel like this one
◼
►
was to me particularly unexpected I feel
◼
►
like I don't really understand what
◼
►
happened between when she called the
◼
►
election and when the election happened
◼
►
but yeah it's surprising it is
◼
►
interesting and I don't like the
◼
►
position that the UK is in now because I
◼
►
feel like it's a it's a worse
◼
►
negotiating position but maybe if it
◼
►
ends up being a softer brexit in the
◼
►
long run that's better
◼
►
I don't know who knows only in the
◼
►
future will we know current US recording
◼
►
this now has no idea so there was
◼
►
of news I wanted to bring up with you
◼
►
this is one of the times where the fact
◼
►
that our podcasts are so far apart comes
◼
►
in handy or works against us I don't
◼
►
know which it's summertime Brady you
◼
►
can't have a lot of podcast in the
◼
►
summer everybody knows that no you
◼
►
certainly can't there was big news that
◼
►
I couldn't wait to tell you it's not be
◼
►
related we haven't actually had the buzz
◼
►
this week is there gonna be a buzz this
◼
►
week there's no buzz this week Brady
◼
►
okay there has been a lot of B news in
◼
►
fact did you not see the story about the
◼
►
Vice President of the United States has
◼
►
put a beehive at his house this sounds
◼
►
vaguely familiar it was like
◼
►
presidential buzz news in the summertime
◼
►
Twitter is also very hard to do so I
◼
►
haven't been keeping up with the Twitter
◼
►
as much because it's warm outside the
◼
►
second lady has installed a beehive at
◼
►
the vice presidential residence it's to
◼
►
raise awareness of the dwindling
◼
►
honeybee population well now that we've
◼
►
gotten some honeybees in the vice
◼
►
presidency there's only one place to go
◼
►
presidential honeybees in the future
◼
►
imagine that like a big white house of
◼
►
bees yeah that'll be awesome White House
◼
►
or bust for bees okay so after that
◼
►
accidental piece of buzz let me tell you
◼
►
more importantly what I thought was
◼
►
going to be Mount Everest news that I
◼
►
couldn't wait to discuss with you but I
◼
►
think it's been snatched away from me
◼
►
because there was this story during the
◼
►
rounds a few weeks ago that this really
◼
►
famous feature on Mount Everest called
◼
►
the Hillary step which is a sort of
◼
►
rocky outcropping it's the last bit of
◼
►
technical climbing you have to do before
◼
►
you get to like the summit of Everest
◼
►
mm-hmm had like collapsed had fallen
◼
►
apart apparently it was shaken apart by
◼
►
the earthquake that happened a couple of
◼
►
years ago and because no one had gone
◼
►
and navigated it since because of
◼
►
problems on Everest all the climbers
◼
►
were going back for the first time and
◼
►
they were like it's not there anymore
◼
►
there's just all this snow and the rocks
◼
►
falling apart and my impression was it
◼
►
had become actually easier now to get up
◼
►
past her and go on up to the summit and
◼
►
they were like these before and after
◼
►
pictures doing the rounds and it looked
◼
►
to me like it wasn't there anymore and I
◼
►
was really excited and so just before
◼
►
the show I was like getting everything
◼
►
ready to tell you about it mm-hmm and
◼
►
now there seems to be this second story
◼
►
where climbers are saying no no no no we
◼
►
think it's still there there's just been
◼
►
a lot of snow and you can't see
◼
►
properly and it's covering snow at the
◼
►
moment but the Hillary step is still
◼
►
there so the jury is out as to whether
◼
►
or not this famous feature this beloved
◼
►
feature on Mount Everest may not even be
◼
►
there anymore it's not often you get
◼
►
geological news is it that works in a
◼
►
pretty slow time scale so the idea that
◼
►
we have like a new piece of geology to
◼
►
tell everyone about that was quite
◼
►
exciting to me but now I don't know yes
◼
►
I have to wait a bit longer issues of
◼
►
the buzz might come out on a monthly
◼
►
basis but I feel like the geology Now
◼
►
magazine maybe comes out once a year
◼
►
geological news happens on a geological
◼
►
time scale yeah but like of all the
◼
►
things that could change like all the
◼
►
geological features in the world that
◼
►
could change like there's only one
◼
►
geological feature like higher than the
◼
►
Hillary step and that is like the summit
◼
►
of Mount Everest so sure of the summit
◼
►
of Mount Everest disappearing which I
◼
►
don't think is technically possible the
◼
►
Hillary step disappearing is like big
◼
►
news it's the second highest named thing
◼
►
in the world I think so anyway there you
◼
►
go there's Mount Everest non news or
◼
►
maybe news let's wait till the snow
◼
►
thaws but I have been hearing you Tim's
◼
►
for those 400,000 Tim's that alerted me
◼
►
to this news I didn't receive your
◼
►
emails and tweets thank you so you went
◼
►
to WWDC mm-hmm and I know you've
◼
►
discussed this on detail in the other
◼
►
place but I do want to find out what it
◼
►
was like that was it good by the way the
◼
►
other place is like a politics joke like
◼
►
if people don't know how that
◼
►
Parliament's work you don't name the
◼
►
other chamber and stuff oh yeah my
◼
►
learned friend in another place is what
◼
►
you sometimes stay instead of like the
◼
►
House of Lords really is it like a
◼
►
question time thing I don't think I've
◼
►
ever heard that yeah it's like it's like
◼
►
a parliament thing so anyway was it good
◼
►
did you have a good time I always feel
◼
►
kind of funny going to a conference like
◼
►
WWDC because I don't really have any
◼
►
reason to be there like I'm not a
◼
►
developer I don't have like a software
◼
►
business that has any reason to be in
◼
►
WWDC this is for me just totally an
◼
►
extension of really like my professional
◼
►
interest in Apple as a user of their
◼
►
products and particularly interesting to
◼
►
go after what feels like has been a long
◼
►
time where there haven't been any
◼
►
updates in in their products
◼
►
I went I really enjoyed it I feel like
◼
►
they had a whole bunch of exciting
◼
►
announcements which it's it's kind of
◼
►
nice to be there in person for that and
◼
►
to be around people when that's
◼
►
happening why well it's nice to be in
◼
►
person because when you're watching the
◼
►
announcements you can see other people's
◼
►
reactions to things and you know how you
◼
►
know what other people care about and
◼
►
what you care about and this was this
◼
►
was a really good show because everybody
◼
►
got something that they liked and then
◼
►
yeah the other reason I do like to be
◼
►
there in person is when Apple announces
◼
►
that they have new products like this
◼
►
year they have new iPads they give out
◼
►
review units to some of the people who
◼
►
are there and mmm there are
◼
►
circumstances under which maybe a person
◼
►
like me can get their hands on the brand
◼
►
new thing to get a first look at it for
◼
►
brief periods of time and that's the
◼
►
kind of thing that you can only do if
◼
►
you are physically at where the
◼
►
conference is happening that's just
◼
►
plain exciting like it's it's super fun
◼
►
and super interesting to see the brand
◼
►
new thing that was announced the day
◼
►
before which hasn't gone on sale yet so
◼
►
I really quite like that who would have
◼
►
thought that you of all people would
◼
►
like get a thrill from that luck because
◼
►
you know you're gonna get it in a few
◼
►
weeks and you buy everything new anyway
◼
►
so you are gonna have one who would have
◼
►
thought that like that kind of cheap
◼
►
thrill would penetrate your rational
◼
►
exterior don't get me wrong like it
◼
►
would work on me because I like cheap
◼
►
thrills but who would have thought that
◼
►
you would be so susceptible to the cheap
◼
►
thrill of oh I'm getting to touch this a
◼
►
few weeks before everyone else is that a
◼
►
cheap thrill though I mean the joke is
◼
►
always like Apple has this reality
◼
►
distortion bubble that they announce
◼
►
things and and it seems like it's
◼
►
amazing in their presentations but
◼
►
there's a really big difference between
◼
►
seeing and handling something in person
◼
►
hmm versus just seeing it presented on a
◼
►
stage oh yeah don't get me wrong oh yeah
◼
►
no I understand the difference between
◼
►
saying a picture of it and actually
◼
►
getting to use it and I just could have
◼
►
imagined a scenario in which you said
◼
►
well it's going to be in the shop in six
◼
►
weeks anyway and I'm going to buy it so
◼
►
the fact that I've touched it for 15
◼
►
minutes six weeks before is really
◼
►
irrelevant I'm gonna come to grips with
◼
►
no in six weeks whether it's good or
◼
►
it's bad and it's basically just that
◼
►
kind of not that you would boast about
◼
►
it but that kind of boast enos of I got
◼
►
to touch it before everyone else I would
◼
►
have thought would have little impact on
◼
►
you I feel like you don't understand it
◼
►
all the joy that I'm getting out of this
◼
►
right it's not that I get to change it
◼
►
before other people do it's I want to
◼
►
pass it through my own evaluation filter
◼
►
as soon as possible so impatient you're
◼
►
impatient to see it ya know you use you
◼
►
don't me see you such funny words it's
◼
►
like I want to know if the thing is as
◼
►
good as they're saying it is but you are
◼
►
gonna find that out like you're gonna
◼
►
find that out whether you're at WWDC or
◼
►
not like you're gonna find out when it's
◼
►
in the shop if it's as good as they say
◼
►
it is yeah I just like to find out
◼
►
sooner it's fun to find out sooner
◼
►
hence my word impatient which I think
◼
►
was the ideal word for that to describe
◼
►
that I want to find out sooner I think
◼
►
yes but it somehow really when you use
◼
►
the words I feel like I have the shape
◼
►
of some like Brady thought in my mind
◼
►
which you seem to be expressing which
◼
►
doesn't match up with my own internal
◼
►
experience here because if I was in
◼
►
London still I don't think I'd be
◼
►
feeling like oh man I can't wait to see
◼
►
the thing like I got to get my hands on
◼
►
it I would just be waiting until it was
◼
►
available but if I can go to WWE word to
◼
►
use but maybe you're right maybe it is
◼
►
the best word in in this circumstance
◼
►
I mean WWDC like isn't that like fueled
◼
►
by impatience like people's enthusiasm
◼
►
to see the stuff as soon as humanly
◼
►
possible like that's why everyone's
◼
►
there I know there are the reasons like
◼
►
collaboration and you know the primary
◼
►
thing with WWDC is apples announcing all
◼
►
of their new software changes so that
◼
►
all of the developers who are there can
◼
►
get their apps ready for when the
◼
►
software is officially released like
◼
►
there has to be a big period of time
◼
►
between which Apple reveals here's all
◼
►
the new things we've been working on
◼
►
here all the changes that we've made you
◼
►
need to adapt all of your programs to
◼
►
work with this new paradigm like there
◼
►
has to be at least a several month gap
◼
►
before the time yeah before then apple
◼
►
says here we're now putting all of these
◼
►
everybody's iPhone impatience isn't the
◼
►
correct word to describe that it's just
◼
►
buffer period where people can adapt
◼
►
their stuff to the new way things are
◼
►
going to work and that is why
◼
►
essentially everybody is at WWDC they
◼
►
want to find out what's happening and
◼
►
more importantly software developers can
◼
►
actually get in touch with people at
◼
►
Apple and ask them questions about how
◼
►
to change their software that's why I
◼
►
feel I always feel like really out of
◼
►
place you're the one guy there that
◼
►
wants to just touch an iPad before
◼
►
everyone oh yeah exactly
◼
►
everybody else is there for like serious
◼
►
business work and I'm they're going to
◼
►
let me look at the thing it's so that's
◼
►
why I don't it feels a bit funny to go
◼
►
but it it just so happens to have worked
◼
►
out in the past two years that WWDC
◼
►
combined with other things and family
◼
►
stuff it's worked out that I can roll it
◼
►
up into one gigantic ball of traveling
◼
►
for the summer it happens to have worked
◼
►
out this way but it's not the kind of
◼
►
thing like I wouldn't fly over only for
◼
►
WWDC most likely I need to like wrap it
◼
►
up in a whole bunch of other stuff to do
◼
►
because again I have no real reason to
◼
►
be there except in patients are they
◼
►
releasing anything that I should be
◼
►
excited about I would say the thing that
◼
►
you should be excited about is new iMac
◼
►
pros yeah I did hear there is one and it
◼
►
excites me I went to the Apple store
◼
►
today but obviously it wasn't there
◼
►
because I wanted to find out what it was
◼
►
all about but it's not coming out until
◼
►
much later in the year it's coming out
◼
►
in December supposedly but yes this is
◼
►
for you and I for the work that we do
◼
►
probably the machines that we should get
◼
►
and it's also very nice because they're
◼
►
making it in black which is nice instead
◼
►
of the silver co as a way to distinguish
◼
►
like this is their professional thing
◼
►
but yet it's coming out in a few months
◼
►
and I don't know about you but my iMac
◼
►
certainly could use a bit of horsepower
◼
►
update yeah when it comes to exporting
◼
►
videos and editing podcasts and all the
◼
►
rest of that differently please tell me
◼
►
it's gonna have like some ports in it
◼
►
please they're not gonna like just have
◼
►
like one hole in it for Apple stuff only
◼
►
like is it gonna have like am I gonna be
◼
►
able to plug stuff into it it's funny
◼
►
you mention that because I'm recording
◼
►
right now on my macbook pro which I
◼
►
brought with me for this trip and
◼
►
the lack of ports is just killing me
◼
►
setting it up today it's like I have
◼
►
four USB seaports but of course the
◼
►
microphone that I'm using isn't USB see
◼
►
it's USB a so I need to have an adapter
◼
►
and it's like all of the hard drives I
◼
►
have also need adapters and I'm sitting
◼
►
here over the past few weeks realizing
◼
►
like I don't have enough adapters to
◼
►
work with this thing and even when I
◼
►
went out and bought like a big bag full
◼
►
of adapters there's still only four
◼
►
ports and it's like I need to plug in
◼
►
more than four things when I'm doing
◼
►
professional work on the road and the
◼
►
lack of SD card slot is just killing me
◼
►
on this trip I just had this today I
◼
►
went to the mech store today and I was
◼
►
looking at the MacBook Pro and I was
◼
►
just like I was looking for an SD slot
◼
►
in it just then the lady from the shop
◼
►
came up to me and said can I help you
◼
►
and I basically this turned her and said
◼
►
you guys are having a laugh and walked
◼
►
off I was disenchanted I gotta say of
◼
►
all of the things that they've done okay
◼
►
switching to USB C ports I can get on
◼
►
board a train that's driving to the
◼
►
future fine right reducing the number of
◼
►
ports I guess I can live with it but
◼
►
cutting out the SD card slot so that you
◼
►
can pull footage off your camera fast
◼
►
like isn't that the definition of Pro
◼
►
like how is this not in the laptop it
◼
►
has killed me so many times on this trip
◼
►
it is such a pain in the butt to not
◼
►
have that I do know that the new Mac Pro
◼
►
does have USB C slots and has USB a
◼
►
slots and has thunderbolt slots I don't
◼
►
know if it has an SD card slot or not
◼
►
but it seems like they've reversed a
◼
►
little bit on their decision of we will
◼
►
just go with two beautiful USB C ports
◼
►
because how could you possibly ever need
◼
►
more so it does look like they're black
◼
►
I Mac Pro will actually have a bunch of
◼
►
slots but it kills me on this laptop
◼
►
like I swear to God if Apple released
◼
►
the exact same laptop and they only
◼
►
changed one thing they added an SD card
◼
►
like I would buy it because it's so
◼
►
important you reminded me with this s
◼
►
taste stuff because obviously you're
◼
►
taking photos on your trip what
◼
►
percentage of the photos that you take
◼
►
have you in them have you taken any
◼
►
photos with you in them okay I am going
◼
►
sent of the photos I take have me in
◼
►
them oh that's more than I would have
◼
►
guessed there might be a real over
◼
►
estimate but here's the thing Brady the
◼
►
only reason that I take photographs with
◼
►
me in them is because I know that my
◼
►
parents and my wife vastly prefer
◼
►
photographs that have me in them versus
◼
►
just photographs of things which I can
◼
►
totally understand but if for some
◼
►
reason my family did not want
◼
►
photographs of what I'm up to I think I
◼
►
would have essentially 0 photographs
◼
►
with with myself in them I go a little
◼
►
bit back and forward on this because
◼
►
don't get me wrong like I love taking
◼
►
like a nice photo for the sake of just a
◼
►
photo but part of me does think like if
◼
►
you're not taking any pictures with you
◼
►
in them what's the point of taking a
◼
►
photo at all I guess like why not just
◼
►
like buy a postcard buy a photographer
◼
►
who would have taken a much better
◼
►
further from the same spot I don't agree
◼
►
with that I think there's something
◼
►
about taking a photograph of a spot that
◼
►
you have taken like obviously of course
◼
►
any any notable landmark of any kind if
◼
►
you go to there will exist better
◼
►
photographs of that thing but I think
◼
►
there's something kind of nice about
◼
►
taking a photograph yourself of a place
◼
►
even if it's not a as good of a
◼
►
photograph as it could possibly be I
◼
►
also think that if you go somewhere
◼
►
significant you should like take a photo
◼
►
of yourself there like it's kind of like
◼
►
your flag on the moon it's just like
◼
►
yeah I I was here you know I was there
◼
►
when you look back at it I've liked if
◼
►
you go somewhere really amazing and
◼
►
don't and have no photograph of yourself
◼
►
there I think you could regret it later
◼
►
I'm mentally running over my last 10
◼
►
years of taking photographs and I feel
◼
►
like I don't really regret not having
◼
►
photographs of me and any particular
◼
►
places I feel like I'm totally fine with
◼
►
a photograph of the thing but it is
◼
►
mostly that other people are much less
◼
►
fine with solely photographs of things
◼
►
they want photographs of people which is
◼
►
completely understandable in further fun
◼
►
election news we have another election
◼
►
that took place recently and this was
◼
►
the Puerto Rican referendum on whether
◼
►
Puerto Rico should become a state of the
◼
►
raaah Puerto Rico has existed for a very
◼
►
long time in this in-between land
◼
►
as a territory and the US has this very
◼
►
strange system of territories which was
◼
►
obviously designed for the 1800s when
◼
►
America was adding a whole bunch of
◼
►
states and was not intended to be a
◼
►
thing that would just go on forever but
◼
►
Puerto Rico has ended up being a
◼
►
territory for a very very long time
◼
►
and there has been a debate for ages
◼
►
about whether or not Puerto Rico should
◼
►
become a state of the United States if
◼
►
it should become an independent country
◼
►
of its own or if it should enter into
◼
►
what is called free association with the
◼
►
United States which is I guess you could
◼
►
describe it as independence light where
◼
►
it is functionally an independent
◼
►
country but a bit under the aegis of the
◼
►
United States these are the options that
◼
►
have been open to Puerto Rico and they
◼
►
just recently had a referendum on it and
◼
►
Puerto Rico has voted for full statehood
◼
►
as the option that they wish to pursue
◼
►
all right there are a few things coming
◼
►
to mind and a few things to talk about
◼
►
that you're going to want to talk about
◼
►
but just to start me off here you're
◼
►
talking as if this is entirely their
◼
►
decision which I find hard to believe
◼
►
like there's a there's a whole other
◼
►
party here isn't there which is the
◼
►
other 50 states it's not just their
◼
►
decision is it's not like you and I
◼
►
could decide we want to form a state of
◼
►
the United States and vote on it and
◼
►
then tell them right all right we're in
◼
►
this is the beginning of even under the
◼
►
best of circumstances what would be a
◼
►
very long dance between Puerto Rico and
◼
►
and the United States
◼
►
I don't know offhand what the exact
◼
►
procedure is but yeah it is not the case
◼
►
that if Puerto Rico decides that it
◼
►
wants to be a state that it is just
◼
►
immediately accepted into the Union
◼
►
given its status as a territory right so
◼
►
given that is a known thing I assume
◼
►
polling been done but I don't know
◼
►
whether it's that this is a common
◼
►
knowledge or not is it a well known
◼
►
thing how the greater body of the United
◼
►
States feels about this like do most
◼
►
people think yeah let him in order most
◼
►
people think no way we don't want to
◼
►
like what's the general temperature of
◼
►
the United States in in relation to this
◼
►
I have never seen any polling data on it
◼
►
would be curious but I would bet that if
◼
►
you asked Americans about Puerto Rico
◼
►
you would only get one of two answers
◼
►
and it would be people who think it is a
◼
►
separate country and people who think it
◼
►
is already a state in the United States
◼
►
no I would wager an enormous amount of
◼
►
money on that that most people would not
◼
►
be able to answer that Puerto Rico is a
◼
►
territory of the United States right
◼
►
most continental citizens yeah I agree
◼
►
with part one of what you said I just
◼
►
cannot believe part two I cannot believe
◼
►
you could find people who think Puerto
◼
►
Rico is one of the 50 states you always
◼
►
have such a high opinion of people Brady
◼
►
I find it really charming it's like I
◼
►
know too many things about how people in
◼
►
New Mexico have a hard time getting
◼
►
deliveries to New Mexico in the United
◼
►
States like I've run across too much of
◼
►
this stuff where people just don't
◼
►
understand what the states are I'm not
◼
►
even confident that more than 75% of
◼
►
adult Americans would know that there
◼
►
are 50 states exactly I've run into
◼
►
people who are like oh it's 52 states
◼
►
isn't it for some reason like this seems
◼
►
to be a number that lodges in people's
◼
►
heads I can see where that confusion
◼
►
comes from but yeah okay so that's why I
◼
►
would be very willing to bet that most
◼
►
Americans think it is already a state or
◼
►
think it is a separate country and just
◼
►
don't really have any opinion on this
◼
►
matter at all but what I think is a
◼
►
really really interesting snag in this
◼
►
because because as we said like this is
◼
►
going to start a dance between Puerto
◼
►
Rico and the United States but just I
◼
►
think there's interesting parallels with
◼
►
this to brexit because just like the
◼
►
brexit turnout was lower than expected
◼
►
the voter turnout in the Puerto Rican
◼
►
referendum was hilariously low 23% of
◼
►
the population turned out to vote in
◼
►
this referendum that seems to me just
◼
►
like a real snag perhaps in this because
◼
►
again it's like a non-binding referendum
◼
►
but I feel like it is really hard to
◼
►
call that a clear victory that Puerto
◼
►
Ricans want to become an official state
◼
►
in the United States when only 23% of
◼
►
people turned out to vote in the actual
◼
►
I mean I'm no expert on this I've only
◼
►
read one article about the story at all
◼
►
but in that article I did read two
◼
►
important pieces of information that
◼
►
feed into that though one is they have
◼
►
voted on this before yes yeah it's not
◼
►
the first time yeah and the second thing
◼
►
is this particular election was unique
◼
►
because there was this like call for a
◼
►
boycott like there was a political
◼
►
reason for that low turnout it wasn't
◼
►
that people don't care and things that
◼
►
was like the low turnout it was in
◼
►
itself part of the the politics of it
◼
►
that's exactly right that I didn't
◼
►
follow the exact details of it but the
◼
►
two other major parties and options
◼
►
boycotted the referendum which when you
◼
►
look at the voter turnout makes it even
◼
►
more hilarious because 23 percent of the
◼
►
people showed up to vote but of those 23
◼
►
percent who showed up to vote 97 percent
◼
►
of them voted for state it is like okay
◼
►
this is not any kind of normal election
◼
►
result whatsoever so I wouldn't be
◼
►
surprised if this ends up going nowhere
◼
►
I just don't know I don't I don't know
◼
►
what are the interests of all of the
◼
►
parties that are involved in this like I
◼
►
don't know if the United States wants to
◼
►
add an additional state like is that
◼
►
advantageous over the situation with
◼
►
Puerto Rico now like I'm not sure that
◼
►
it is I just don't know
◼
►
it's just yet another in the past year
◼
►
of elections of like an election about a
◼
►
very important thing and the election
◼
►
itself the results are unexpected and
◼
►
strange so if you were made like boss of
◼
►
the universe tomorrow and the people of
◼
►
the United States and the people of
◼
►
Puerto Rico said gray we don't know what
◼
►
to do can you just decide for us you had
◼
►
to decide tomorrow and no one would
◼
►
complain about your decision they just
◼
►
said gray just to cite a forest man what
◼
►
there's many complications here what I
◼
►
was gonna say is I guess if I could snap
◼
►
my fingers I would make Puerto Rico an
◼
►
independent nation because in general I
◼
►
prefer for political power to be in
◼
►
smaller more local groups than in larger
◼
►
blocks and yeah this would like a creat
◼
►
more power to the level of the federal
◼
►
government and away from Puerto Rico
◼
►
over time which is what happens in the
◼
►
United States but I guess the problem
◼
►
enormous number of Puerto Ricans who
◼
►
live and work in the United States it's
◼
►
a perennial problem for Puerto Rico that
◼
►
there's a bit of a brain drain of many
◼
►
of its talented citizens saying well as
◼
►
a Puerto Rican I can live and work in
◼
►
the United States and so I'm moving to
◼
►
New York or moving to San Francisco and
◼
►
I'm not going to stay down here on this
◼
►
island so I don't think those people
◼
►
would be super happy so I guess I don't
◼
►
know I guess maybe the optimal solution
◼
►
is really for Puerto Rico to just stay
◼
►
as a territory essentially forever
◼
►
because they think one of the only major
◼
►
downsides of that is is like an
◼
►
inability to vote for presidents and I
◼
►
think there are a few tax implications
◼
►
but maybe for Puerto Ricans the best
◼
►
thing to do would be to stay as a
◼
►
territory forever to be slightly arm's
◼
►
length from the federal government while
◼
►
still having all of the advantages of
◼
►
American citizenship no just thinking it
◼
►
out loud maybe that's what it what the
◼
►
result really should be soft brexit soft
◼
►
territoriality I would say though that
◼
►
if I was in charge of everything
◼
►
tomorrow I would declare this referendum
◼
►
just totally invalid I feel like no do
◼
►
it again if you get 23 percent of the
◼
►
people to show up like I'm sorry we're
◼
►
not making any decisions based on that
◼
►
like this is this is no indication of
◼
►
what people actually think I've got to
◼
►
try again with your referendum Puerto
◼
►
Rico I mean of course this being hello
◼
►
internet matters of sort of governance
◼
►
and voting and immigration pale into
◼
►
insignificance when compared to the
◼
►
discussion that must be had about what
◼
►
to do with the American flag if Puerto
◼
►
Rico becomes a state I know I know this
◼
►
is the most exciting part is it the most
◼
►
exciting part by far it's been so long
◼
►
since we added a star to the US flag hmm
◼
►
and what makes it even better is 51 is
◼
►
such a terrible number no good way to
◼
►
arrange 51 stars so yeah this to me
◼
►
would be the most exciting thing about
◼
►
Puerto Rico joining the United States is
◼
►
we would have to have some kind of
◼
►
decision made about what our options
◼
►
would be for 51 star flag and there's
◼
►
some institution which has mapped out
◼
►
possible designs for like the next ten
◼
►
to be added which i think is a little
◼
►
bit optimistic many states you can add
◼
►
but this is the thing that people like
◼
►
to think about and I'll send you a link
◼
►
to what are some of the top options for
◼
►
51 star flag designs ok 51 let's have a
◼
►
look here maybe no no maybe maybe maybe
◼
►
no no okay so be careful the link that
◼
►
I've sent to you the first three are 51
◼
►
star designs the rest of them are it's
◼
►
52 there are 10 is 52 and 50 okay so
◼
►
you're right of the 352 is I'm saying
◼
►
yes no no so only the first one there is
◼
►
acceptable what so basically one of them
◼
►
kind of to the at first glance looks
◼
►
like the current flag but a little bit
◼
►
disjointed kind of a little bit Kindle
◼
►
not justified but acceptable yeah if you
◼
►
just add one more star and try to keep
◼
►
the rows in the way that it looks right
◼
►
now I feel like this is just a nightmare
◼
►
of a flag it just looks wrong the rows
◼
►
are unsymmetrical from top to bottom
◼
►
yeah this is totally unacceptable as a
◼
►
flag but then if you're not going to do
◼
►
that you have to try to find a way to
◼
►
aesthetically pleasing ly rearrange the
◼
►
Stars well you've got one that's kind of
◼
►
like some kind of like it kind of looks
◼
►
like a optical illusion cube or some
◼
►
kind of weird it's like if you took a
◼
►
hexagon but you made the top you
◼
►
stretched out the top and bottom so it's
◼
►
all it's a longer gone hexagon is what
◼
►
it is it looks like a regular hexagon
◼
►
that someone has sat on and squashed oh
◼
►
yeah that's good that's that's also good
◼
►
yeah and that again no because that
◼
►
leaves all this excess blue in the bit
◼
►
in the corner I've tried to arrange them
◼
►
in kind of are they concentric circles I
◼
►
don't know but it just creates weird
◼
►
shapes and apparently this is the one
◼
►
proposed by the new Progressive Party of
◼
►
Puerto Rico I think the new Progressive
◼
►
Party of Puerto Rico is not listening to
◼
►
enough hello Internet and not getting
◼
►
their act together with legs there is a
◼
►
a way to arrange 51 stars into roughly a
◼
►
one star in the center and then you have
◼
►
to be very careful about how you put all
◼
►
the other stars around it
◼
►
what's fierce phase three dimension of
◼
►
it that would be an awesome plan
◼
►
I think the reason why I said a sphere
◼
►
is because when I look at this thing
◼
►
full screen like if a full-screen image
◼
►
of the 51 star circular flag there is
◼
►
almost like it's an optical illusion
◼
►
yeah it's like an optical illusion that
◼
►
it it almost feels like the first star
◼
►
it ends up reminding me very much of the
◼
►
giant ball at Epcot in Disney that's
◼
►
what it looks like it looks like they
◼
►
are different distances apart because in
◼
►
order to try to make it a filled in
◼
►
circle you have to change the
◼
►
distribution of distances between the
◼
►
stars yeah so what I think is so
◼
►
fascinating about the idea of Puerto
◼
►
Rico joining is the u.s. flag who said
◼
►
before it's not my favorite flag but all
◼
►
of the options for what on earth can you
◼
►
do with 51 stars I think they're all
◼
►
terrible options they're not great if I
◼
►
had to go with one I would actually go
◼
►
with the sphere of stars no no gray no
◼
►
but here's the thing here's a real
◼
►
problem with that one that's smaller and
◼
►
smaller sizes it looks worse and worse
◼
►
and at larger and larger sizes you have
◼
►
this optical illusion effect but
◼
►
something about my desire for order
◼
►
cannot abide by the uneven rows of the
◼
►
51 stars like I just I can look at that
◼
►
so I have to mark that one out and then
◼
►
the only option is between the squashed
◼
►
hexagons and the circle and neither of
◼
►
them are great but if I have to pick one
◼
►
I'm going to pick the circle over the
◼
►
squash hexagon because at least
◼
►
everything terrible I'm not saying the
◼
►
circles good but at least the circle
◼
►
evokes the Betsy Ross flag so I feel
◼
►
like I can go along with that right you
◼
►
can I can go along with that no you're
◼
►
wrong okay what do you go with then
◼
►
Brady it also the circle has like these
◼
►
lines for me in it like your mind
◼
►
creates these weird lines like a sort of
◼
►
a weird person doing a star jump or
◼
►
something and I totally see what you're
◼
►
that looks worse and worse at smaller
◼
►
sizes I would go with the first one the
◼
►
first one with your Kindle justification
◼
►
I could live with because you said it
◼
►
looks disordered but to me there is like
◼
►
there is order to it there was method to
◼
►
it but I could live with that because
◼
►
it's most like the current flag I'll
◼
►
tell you one thing though I think a lot
◼
►
of people in the US would be reasonably
◼
►
indifferent to the idea of Puerto Rico
◼
►
becoming a state until you told them it
◼
►
would involve changing the flag I think
◼
►
the fact that when it will involve
◼
►
changing the flag is the biggest barrier
◼
►
to the people of the u.s. letting Puerto
◼
►
Rico in you know what it hadn't crossed
◼
►
my mind but I think you're totally right
◼
►
you could run an anti Puerto Rico
◼
►
campaign that simply took the squash
◼
►
hexagon flag and said this is what
◼
►
America will look like if Puerto Rico
◼
►
joins right and it's like boom 97%
◼
►
disapproval of Puerto Rico joining
◼
►
America like I think I think that would
◼
►
just be over it's the stars and stripe
◼
►
of flag flag now if I had to pick a guy
◼
►
I would go with that circle one if you
◼
►
had to pick you would go with the uneven
◼
►
ones I do think there is one option
◼
►
which I would highly approve of if
◼
►
you're going to 51 is to say look the
◼
►
the hell with all these stars let's just
◼
►
go back to the Betsy Ross flag with the
◼
►
13 stars I think that would be a much
◼
►
better decision to say we're gonna stop
◼
►
this uneven star business this was fine
◼
►
in the 1800's when we were drawing
◼
►
graphs of how many states we keep adding
◼
►
every year and isn't this a fun thing to
◼
►
do it's like but we're well beyond that
◼
►
now it's been what 60 or 70 years since
◼
►
the last state joined the Union I don't
◼
►
even know it's been forever if you had
◼
►
to choose I would be a big proponent of
◼
►
go back to the Betsy Ross flag with just
◼
►
the 13 stars and we'll leave it like
◼
►
that and we won't ever have to mess with
◼
►
this again I think that's option one hmm
◼
►
option two is the 52 star flag looks
◼
►
pretty good and I think at a glance you
◼
►
not even notice that it's different from
◼
►
the current US flag and so I think
◼
►
option two is Puerto Rico can join but
◼
►
we need to find somebody else as well
◼
►
right we need an additional states to
◼
►
join the union so that we can make it 52
◼
►
those are my courses of action you mean
◼
►
the first 50 to starvation on this page
◼
►
I'm looking at yeah okay
◼
►
the first 52 star version it's still a
◼
►
little uneven but there's something
◼
►
about its unevenness which is less
◼
►
bothersome than the 51 star version okay
◼
►
right the 51 star version is just
◼
►
terrible I'm with you I'm with you
◼
►
okay so here's my thoughts on that first
◼
►
up like I agree the 52 uneven looks
◼
►
better than the 51 uneven I agree it is
◼
►
a bit more pleasing on the eye
◼
►
but obviously you're being bit of a
◼
►
silly-billy and we can't like have an
◼
►
extra state in the flag races so I'm
◼
►
gonna rule out that joke that is not a
◼
►
joke I am deadly serious about that like
◼
►
if we have to annex somewhere like will
◼
►
annex somewhere now you're just being a
◼
►
mischief-maker watch out British
◼
►
Columbia let's go to a situation where
◼
►
we do have to have 51 states I think
◼
►
that the Betsy Ross flag is a very
◼
►
good-looking flag mm-hmm
◼
►
I think it would be a lovely plagg to
◼
►
have but that I think is also completely
◼
►
untenable because of the politics and
◼
►
the history involved with what the 13
◼
►
stars represent so you would never be
◼
►
able to push that through so even though
◼
►
I have no great attachment to all that
◼
►
history you know anyone can see that
◼
►
that's going to be an insurmountable
◼
►
problem yeah 100% I agree with you on
◼
►
that one because every state is just
◼
►
going to run the campaign of can you
◼
►
believe they want to remove Nebraska's
◼
►
star from the flag like that's
◼
►
outrageous and so you're never gonna win
◼
►
that one politically I mean clearly the
◼
►
best solution is to have one star with
◼
►
51 points the classic 51 pointed star I
◼
►
wonder for 51 pointed star exist someone
◼
►
must have done this by now I feel like I
◼
►
need to open up Inkscape and do the
◼
►
thing where you can dynamically generate
◼
►
a 51 pointed star I'm sure someone's
◼
►
done it on the flag Vicks
◼
►
ji-sub beretta at some point I can't be
◼
►
the first person to have thought of this
◼
►
I don't know Brady it's so crazy it just
◼
►
might work well then it would be code
◼
►
the Brady Haran flag and I would be up
◼
►
there with the Betsy Ross I just
◼
►
generated a 51 pointed star in my
◼
►
animation program Wow
◼
►
you are fast my friend how can you do
◼
►
that so quickly and put out so few
◼
►
videos animation is not the hardest part
◼
►
let me just quickly put it on a blue
◼
►
background so you get the real
◼
►
experience right can you check it on
◼
►
with the straps as well while you're
◼
►
there I want the first time I see it to
◼
►
be the full experience you know what
◼
►
actually I can do that I can do that
◼
►
pretty quick give me two seconds see
◼
►
this is the business we should have gray
◼
►
I just sit here coming up with ideas and
◼
►
then you make them a reality for me is
◼
►
that what you want your the ideas guy
◼
►
I'll do the implementation
◼
►
I am the ideas guy and you're like
◼
►
logistics and you know okay thank you
◼
►
hope Brady I've just sent a team over
◼
►
iMessage for people listening that gray
◼
►
spent two hours on this oh no no you
◼
►
haven't done it right I'm sorry how do
◼
►
you want it the spikes need to be more
◼
►
spiky that just looks like a circle with
◼
►
a few spikes on it yeah I can give you a
◼
►
more spiky version in two seconds longer
◼
►
spikes again you're the ideas guy here
◼
►
I'll implement your ideas until you are
◼
►
satisfied with the spike eNOS keep that
◼
►
as version one though gray so when they
◼
►
write the book about us they'll be able
◼
►
to show like the evolution of the
◼
►
process yeah of course yeah I will do
◼
►
that no problem at all that was version
◼
►
1 version 2 on the way uh-hmm I can make
◼
►
it even more spiky yeah more spiky I
◼
►
don't want there to be a circle in the
◼
►
middle well yeah okay we'll see it looks
◼
►
really weird if you take out the circle
◼
►
but I will go for maximum spike eNOS and
◼
►
then we'll put all three there and
◼
►
people can decide okay do you know what
◼
►
I said that as a joke and it actually
◼
►
looks better than I expected but anyway
◼
►
let's see what the final versions like
◼
►
I'm not saying it's the solution but
◼
►
here's the problem that we're getting
◼
►
into Brady is the number of pixels that
◼
►
are even available to show that there
◼
►
are 51 spokes so here is about as spikey
◼
►
as I can make it where the spokes are
◼
►
even still visible okay I don't want
◼
►
excuses gray what results I'm just
◼
►
telling you man okay yeah that's let's
◼
►
see I see the problem you're having
◼
►
there there's something else I can do
◼
►
which I kind of like hold on I know how
◼
►
it is in your head but this is just a
◼
►
problem of 51 is so many that there
◼
►
to actually do it yeah I get it right
◼
►
but it's like I have that same flag in
◼
►
my head but it you just can't really
◼
►
reproduce it yeah I'm gonna call this
◼
►
one the buzzsaw version of 51 not great
◼
►
puzzles not happening though of course
◼
►
I think the only one that even remotely
◼
►
looks good is the first most chunky one
◼
►
but then what that looks like is you've
◼
►
stuck one of those as-seen-on-tv labels
◼
►
on the flag I think the second one had
◼
►
potential but yeah I know what you're
◼
►
thinking but it it just looks really
◼
►
weird very fast adjusting the number of
◼
►
spikes there's just not enough space I
◼
►
don't want to get too carried away
◼
►
because I said it as a joke anyway about
◼
►
it there we go we'll put them in the
◼
►
show notes so people can take a look at
◼
►
our brainstorming what a fifty-one star
◼
►
flag looks like and I love that we did a
◼
►
bit of live flag design on the podcast
◼
►
you don't get that every day folks how
◼
►
many other podcast here listen to you
◼
►
where you get to listen to two guys
◼
►
desiring a flag life or one visionary
◼
►
suggesting flags and one like you know
◼
►
grunt worker doing the work this week's
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thanks to Harry's for supporting the
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show okay brainy I need to ask your
◼
►
opinion on something mm-hmm let me
◼
►
describe for you a situation that
◼
►
occurred I'm traveling this summer and
◼
►
I'm out on the road and I'm trying very
◼
►
hard to at least vaguely stay healthy
◼
►
and to not balloon up and wait while
◼
►
you're in America which is hard to do
◼
►
because the streets are paved with
◼
►
donuts and hot dogs man and hot dogs how
◼
►
much do I love hot dogs they always
◼
►
smell good when you're walking by the
◼
►
hot dog vendor like that seems like a
◼
►
good idea even if it isn't a good hot
◼
►
dog a good hot dog so I have been trying
◼
►
to stay as low carb as possible which is
◼
►
actually especially out in like
◼
►
California is way easier to do than you
◼
►
like lots of places are used to this and
◼
►
one of the easiest ways to just be able
◼
►
to stay low carb anywhere is to just
◼
►
order a burger and just eat the burger
◼
►
part of it don't eat the bun so I was
◼
►
out having lunch with a few people and I
◼
►
ordered a burger and everybody else is
◼
►
eating and now I'm the weirdo who's
◼
►
taking the top off of the burger and I'm
◼
►
using a knife and fork to start eating
◼
►
the burger itself you are a weirdo I
◼
►
have no time for people who order a
◼
►
burger and don't eat the bun but anyway
◼
►
I say why don't you see what's happening
◼
►
here so before the story continues I
◼
►
just need to specify something that this
◼
►
was a breakfast burger so it was a
◼
►
burger that had eggs on top of it and it
◼
►
also had a kind of eggs benedict sauce
◼
►
on top of it so it was an unusually
◼
►
messy kind of burger okay right with
◼
►
eggs and sauce on it it's not just like
◼
►
um neatly lifting the burger out of the
◼
►
bun so I'm eating the burger
◼
►
I finished the burger do you remove the
◼
►
bottom bun first or the
◼
►
the bottom bun like it's the plate and
◼
►
you're like cutting in I treated it like
◼
►
it was the plate and I was just cutting
◼
►
that on top of it because it would have
◼
►
been more terrible to try to remove this
◼
►
very messy burger from the bottom bun I
◼
►
left the whole bottom button intact so I
◼
►
didn't cut through it I was just cutting
◼
►
it like it was the plate that's some
◼
►
that's like surgical cutting through the
◼
►
meat but stopping before you go through
◼
►
the bun I'm impressed by your knife
◼
►
skill I've had much practice in doing
◼
►
this so have the picture in your head
◼
►
I have eaten all the meat yep but
◼
►
there's a lot of like burger juice and
◼
►
that's in the bun and I took the top bun
◼
►
and I put it back on top sloppy sloppy
◼
►
bun yeah it's a it's a total sloppy
◼
►
button as I'm sitting there and I'm done
◼
►
with this yep the guy sitting across
◼
►
from me takes one look at what I've done
◼
►
yep and then he says no can I eat your
◼
►
buns can I eat your sloppy buns yeah are
◼
►
you trying to get this podcast pledge
◼
►
this was one of these moments in life
◼
►
where I feel like it like a situation is
◼
►
so strange and unexpected that my brain
◼
►
just doesn't like it has no previous
◼
►
experience here and goes into like a
◼
►
weird autopilot mode of how is it
◼
►
appropriate to be social in moments when
◼
►
you don't know and just err on the side
◼
►
of nice so I think my brain just like
◼
►
flipped into that mode because it had no
◼
►
idea of what to do and so I said sure
◼
►
and i slided the plate across and this
◼
►
guy then ate my sloppy buns with a knife
◼
►
and fork or by hand by hand he ate it by
◼
►
hand here's the thing I'm very sorry if
◼
►
person who you were is listening to this
◼
►
podcast which there is a nonzero chance
◼
►
about this like I'm very thinking I'm
◼
►
very aware that the person who did this
◼
►
may be listening right now and I'm sorry
◼
►
to bring this up but here's the thing I
◼
►
haven't been able to stop thinking about
◼
►
this for more than a week now
◼
►
this happened at least 10 days ago and I
◼
►
find myself at random moments coming
◼
►
back to this thought again and again
◼
►
like the guy wanted to eat my sloppy
◼
►
them to him so here's what I keep coming
◼
►
back to if they had been french fries if
◼
►
I had ordered a burger and it came with
◼
►
french fries and the guy had said can I
◼
►
eat your french fries I would have said
◼
►
yes of course why not yeah there's no
◼
►
reason not to except if I was some kind
◼
►
of really antisocial weird out like no I
◼
►
bought these french fries I'm not gonna
◼
►
eat them because I'm on a low-carb diet
◼
►
I'm just gonna throw them on the ground
◼
►
right so nobody can eat them great you
◼
►
had no choice I understand what happened
◼
►
you had no choice but to surrender the
◼
►
sloppy buns because clearly you weren't
◼
►
gonna have them and like how could you
◼
►
say no either you had to say no and eat
◼
►
them yourself or you had to give them up
◼
►
the thing that you did that surprises me
◼
►
is you didn't like confront the person
◼
►
who out saying are you serious sloppy
◼
►
buns that's ridiculous like you're a
◼
►
crazy person like I can't believe you
◼
►
didn't like call them out on it that's
◼
►
what you should have done you should
◼
►
have said if you're sure if you want but
◼
►
you're crazy you seriously wanna eat my
◼
►
sloppy buns I was just so taken aback
◼
►
that I just did this automatic reflex
◼
►
and then I just it can't it will not
◼
►
leave my mind the reason why I can't
◼
►
leave my mind is is like okay the fries
◼
►
are unambiguous but then feels like I
◼
►
don't know I don't know how to describe
◼
►
it it almost feels weirdly personally
◼
►
invasive but this person these buns like
◼
►
it doesn't make any sense right because
◼
►
we're not sharing them all right I'm
◼
►
done with them it's not like he was
◼
►
gumming them and then giving them back
◼
►
to me and I'm going to eat them again
◼
►
it's done they're just going in the
◼
►
garbage but I feel like weirdly violated
◼
►
in this situation and in a way that I
◼
►
just I just cannot describe I think it's
◼
►
all on him cuz I know you're pretty big
◼
►
on like you know germs and sterility and
◼
►
like the chain of custody of saliva and
◼
►
right right yeah and I think you're safe
◼
►
well clearly you're safe here you would
◼
►
yeah that's exactly it there is no germ
◼
►
objection that can take place in this
◼
►
scenario it's just a bit of oh yeah but
◼
►
the other person I think had does have
◼
►
questions to answer in that respect but
◼
►
they're they're probably quite
◼
►
comfortable with it I mean the buns had
◼
►
clearly reached a point where there had
◼
►
been sufficiently sullied that it seems
◼
►
strange that someone was willing to
◼
►
touch and consume them but that's on
◼
►
you probably wouldn't be having these
◼
►
problems if you just discussed it at the
◼
►
time I think you would have gotten out
◼
►
of your chest maybe that's what it is I
◼
►
feel like I just I didn't clarify enough
◼
►
with the situation and my brain is
◼
►
treating this like an open loop that it
◼
►
just keeps coming back to you and back
◼
►
to but the problem is I do kind of feel
◼
►
like in the future I would say no
◼
►
because I couldn't put my finger on it
◼
►
but it just it feels like some kind of
◼
►
personal violation has occurred when
◼
►
there other people besides you two at
◼
►
the table there were other people at the
◼
►
what glance is being exchanged at the
◼
►
time or did anyone speak up or like was
◼
►
it just treated like normal or were
◼
►
people that look at each other guy did
◼
►
you just see that he just took that guy
◼
►
sloppy buns so the way things happened
◼
►
is I was so fixated on what was
◼
►
occurring I don't know if they were
◼
►
glances being directed around the table
◼
►
and right it just so happens that the
◼
►
two other people who were there I didn't
◼
►
have a chance to revisit this topic with
◼
►
them after the way the group broke up it
◼
►
just it just didn't work out mmm mm-hmm
◼
►
and so I've been discussing this with
◼
►
like every human being that I have met
◼
►
what's been that consensus there's
◼
►
universal consensus that it's weird to
◼
►
ask but that it would be wrong to say no
◼
►
yeah that seems to be the consensus I
◼
►
keep circling around this idea of like
◼
►
if I'm ever in this scenario again I'm
◼
►
gonna have to make sure to stand up for
◼
►
myself and say no like no I will not
◼
►
give you my sloppy second buns this is
◼
►
an inappropriate violation of my
◼
►
personal space in a way that french
◼
►
fries are not what if the person says
◼
►
why not like you're not gonna eat them
◼
►
why do you mind meeting them it's
◼
►
wasteful but this is it I have no good
◼
►
answer other than well now I'm asking
◼
►
you're in the situation I'm sorry I'm
◼
►
challenging you on it now what are you
◼
►
gonna say I think I've asked you you've
◼
►
said no what's your I've said why now
◼
►
what do you say you need to gain this
◼
►
three men my only answer paints me as a
◼
►
crazy person which I think I will just
◼
►
have to bite the bullet on this one but
◼
►
the answer will be no I paid for these
◼
►
buns and I'm uncomfortable with the idea
◼
►
of you eating them no you can't that's
◼
►
unacceptable why is that unacceptable do
◼
►
you know what you actually have the
◼
►
acceptable answer now because of this
◼
►
because of this catharsis that you've
◼
►
you can say do you know what I know I
◼
►
should say yes but this has happened to
◼
►
me once before and after it happened it
◼
►
became such a difficult thing I even
◼
►
made a whole podcast episode about it
◼
►
which you could listen to if you like
◼
►
but for that reason for that reason and
◼
►
how it affected me the previous time I'm
◼
►
gonna have to respectfully and
◼
►
regretfully say keep your hands off my