The Accidental Tech Podcast

228: I Never Cancel a Drag


  why is chrome using a hundred percent of [TS]

  my CPU because Chrome oh I know why I [TS]

  have an apple tab open that's why you [TS]

  know when they added that thing where [TS]

  they put like a little speaker icon [TS]

  which by the way this is kind of like a [TS]

  telephone icon it's one of those things [TS]

  that I wonder about people how people [TS]

  recognize it except just by like pattern [TS]

  matching like you know the you know the [TS]

  speaker icon looks like a paper cone [TS]

  with a little magnet coiled like but in [TS]

  profile show you like which tab is [TS]

  making sound yeah with the sound wave [TS]

  coming out of it do people even know [TS]

  that that's supposed to be a speaker do [TS]

  they just think that's the sound symbol [TS]

  anyway because who the hell knows what a [TS]

  speaker looks like these days right [TS]

  certainly the speakers in our phones and [TS]

  iPads don't look like that I mean they [TS]

  have the same part maybe they have [TS]

  similar parts fulfilling similar look [TS]

  like anyway they have that thing where [TS]

  you can find oh what tab is making the [TS]

  noise like Safari has it in chrome has [TS]

  it they have some way for you to find [TS]

  the tab that's making the noise which is [TS]

  like oh that's great this is a good [TS]

  feature they recognize this this need [TS]

  it's annoying when you can't find the [TS]

  tab that's making noise then you find it [TS]

  and you know kill it or close it but [TS]

  then we when you relaunch the browser [TS]

  and it like restores the state of your [TS]

  previous session all of the tabs that [TS]

  were they could possibly make noise like [TS]

  everything you start to autoplay yeah [TS]

  you have seven seven YouTube videos and [TS]

  they all start playing it's like whoa [TS]

  you're so close you're like you've given [TS]

  the information to stop one when they [TS]

  start spontaneously or lose track and [TS]

  you don't autoplay when tabs load in the [TS]

  background but when i rewatch from you [TS]

  note and restore a state it says you [TS]

  know what I bet this person wants seven [TS]

  YouTube videos all play at the same time [TS]

  let me do that and then yes I can find [TS]

  them and stop them all one by one you [TS]

  know what a solution of this problem is [TS]

  John having fewer tabs couple of tabs [TS]

  open that is a completely reasonable [TS]

  solution doesn't say it doesn't make [TS]

  many like I think I only had four tabs [TS]

  playing but you know because I had a [TS]

  bunch of YouTube videos up you know [TS]

  doing YouTube research right and you [TS]

  have a bunch of videos open in tabs [TS]

  which is fine you watch them one at a [TS]

  time you leave them open some of them [TS]

  are like pause in the middle but then [TS]

  you launch your browser for whatever [TS]

  reason and they all start playing [TS]

  alright so I have some follow-up about [TS]

  my MacBook / MacBook one slash Mac look [TS]

  adorable [TS]

  you've made it already don't no no no [TS]

  there are people that are very perturbed [TS]

  about the MacBook adorable nickname and [TS]

  I think your monsters not really but I [TS]

  don't understand why people are so upset [TS]

  by this a lot of people wrote in to [TS]

  recommend a particular kind of port [TS]

  replicator that apparently will solve [TS]

  all of my problems because it has power [TS]

  in it has a thorough net it has USB [TS]

  ports it has an SD card reader and on [TS]

  the surface they are correct but the [TS]

  reason I didn't buy this was a couple [TS]

  one it was very expensive although the [TS]

  sum total of the other dongles I got was [TS]

  probably at least as much if not more [TS]

  than this is and we'll put an example on [TS]

  the show notes but there appear to be [TS]

  like seven different manufacturers at [TS]

  all white label or excuse me sever [TS]

  different several different companies [TS]

  that all white label the same thing [TS]

  that's manufactured by gosh knows who [TS]

  yeah but anyway the main reason I was [TS]

  not in terribly interested in this is [TS]

  from what I had seen when I did a little [TS]

  bit of research in order to get the [TS]

  Ethernet port to work you have to [TS]

  install a kernel extension like a [TS]

  specific driver or whatever it was like [TS]

  nope I'm out and that was problem number [TS]

  one and problem number two is it looks [TS]

  very small and it appears on the surface [TS]

  to be very small but in actuality it is [TS]

  quite large or larger than I would want [TS]

  and like when I went to Chicago last [TS]

  week with the adorable I didn't bring [TS]

  the ethernet / USB [TS]

  I almost said hub I guess it is kind of [TS]

  a hub but anyway I didn't bring that [TS]

  dongle I only brought the HDMI dongle [TS]

  which I actually used more than a couple [TS]

  of times and it worked out very nicely [TS]

  but uh but my point is that I do like [TS]

  the flexibility of only bringing the one [TS]

  or ones that I absolutely need and not [TS]

  bringing the one or ones that I don't [TS]

  need so I thought I would just mention [TS]

  that but I do appreciate the feedback I [TS]

  honestly do because sometimes I don't [TS]

  see everything and then finally I just [TS]

  wanted to point out that I also wrote a [TS]

  blog post a review of my MacBook [TS]

  adorable so if you want many more words [TS]

  than we've already spoken on this [TS]

  podcast about the MacBook feel free to [TS]

  check that out [TS]

  I enjoyed the review thanks thanks I [TS]

  appreciate it it was actually a lot [TS]

  longer than I intended and for a while I [TS]

  thought maybe I'll go through and try to [TS]

  cut what I can and then I thought you [TS]

  what I'm just gonna leave it because I'd [TS]

  love to say because I really like this [TS]

  thing anyway we will put links in the [TS]

  show notes but uh yeah I really like [TS]

  this adorable it is not the fastest [TS]

  thing in the world but it is quick [TS]

  enough for me and that's all that [TS]

  matters [TS]

  speaking of these sorts of things Connor [TS]

  Brooks writes in and says here's some [TS]

  comparison pictures of the 27 excuse me [TS]

  2016 vs. 2017 key caps there have been [TS]

  there's been a small revision this [TS]

  Connor says I've heard that the retrofit [TS]

  is known internally as a shim kit and to [TS]

  be honest with you I can't really see [TS]

  the difference which probably means I'm [TS]

  completely missing it I'm sure this [TS]

  picture is completely fine I couldn't [TS]

  see it either okay good that makes me [TS]

  feel a little better yeah I wish there [TS]

  was like red arrows or circle like look [TS]

  here here's the back and forth and I'm [TS]

  like I could not speak am I looking at [TS]

  the underside of the key caps I will say [TS]

  though I have had a chance to I got a [TS]

  chance to try typing on a 2017 MacBook [TS]

  Pro in a store and and it really is [TS]

  actually a different feeling they they [TS]

  it is not like a dramatic difference it [TS]

  doesn't feel like a whole different type [TS]

  of keyboard but it does feel a little [TS]

  softer at like almost as if they put [TS]

  like a rubber mat under all the keys so [TS]

  like your like your your when you bottom [TS]

  out the key it feels like you're [TS]

  bottoming out on something rubbery [TS]

  instead of something flat and it sounds [TS]

  different as well so I think that [TS]

  actually is a nice improvement is it [TS]

  quieter slightly yeah it's it's a little [TS]

  more dull sounding and a little more [TS]

  dull feeling like it really does feel [TS]

  like they just added some rubber [TS]

  somewhere which i think is actually what [TS]

  they did but it it is it seems like it's [TS]

  better I still would not describe this [TS]

  as a good keyboard but they are [TS]

  incrementally making it more tolerable [TS]

  and if this if they also took this [TS]

  opportunity to fix whatever was causing [TS]

  the keys to stick and fail then I get [TS]

  too aggressive I know so but yeah I hope [TS]

  yeah it's and maybe this is it maybe it [TS]

  maybe it needed some kind of you know [TS]

  rubber o-ring around a certain part or [TS]

  something I don't I don't know the [TS]

  details but the the 2017 s do definitely [TS]

  feel slightly but noticeably different [TS]

  yeah I gotta tell you and I talked about [TS]

  this in my review so I'm not gonna [TS]

  belabor it but when I first got the [TS]

  keyboard [TS]

  I was like oh I mean I knew what I was [TS]

  getting into but at the same time no and [TS]

  then I kind of got into like the little [TS]

  work I actually kind of liked it now [TS]

  that's it I don't I don't know if I like [TS]

  that I like it though because I love my [TS]

  magic keyboard I I can never come back I [TS]

  know so I I do prefer the magic keyboard [TS]

  and I think in no small part because I [TS]

  prefer a deeper throw and when I when I [TS]

  is that the right term for it basically [TS]

  I want I want more travel when I push [TS]

  the travel on the key I want the key to [TS]

  depress whatever amount I don't know [TS]

  what the amount is on the magic keyboard [TS]

  but I find that to be perfect and on the [TS]

  on the MacBook it does not travel into [TS]

  the into the MacBook as much as I would [TS]

  like and that still frustrates me a [TS]

  little bit but you know wait and I [TS]

  couldn't figure out how to describe it [TS]

  in and only you guys in you know a [TS]

  handful of people that read the review [TS]

  will truly understand what I meant but [TS]

  the only way I can describe it is the [TS]

  difference between like a proper shifter [TS]

  on a rear-wheel drive car you know we're [TS]

  like the shifter is sitting directly [TS]

  over the transmission so there's like [TS]

  rods that are connecting the shifter [TS]

  that you hold in your hand to the [TS]

  transmission itself like that feeling of [TS]

  sturdiness and notch enos and just good [TS]

  feeling that's what the adorable [TS]

  keyboard feels like [TS]

  whereas especially the the on-board [TS]

  keyboard on my older macbook pro so [TS]

  before they went to the these and new [TS]

  style keyboards that feels like I've [TS]

  actually understood Honda's to have very [TS]

  good shift linkages but like my Saturn [TS]

  which admittedly yes it's a Saturn haha [TS]

  I get it but the Saturn had the [TS]

  sloppiest worst most disgusting shift [TS]

  linkage in the world where he could [TS]

  shimmy the stick left and right like an [TS]

  inch either direction while the thing is [TS]

  in gear it was terrible and that's what [TS]

  like the old MacBook Pro feels like and [TS]

  the magic keyboard is closer to the [TS]

  adorable z' keyboard but not quite as [TS]

  sturdy and that sturdiness is actually [TS]

  really really really nice and I really [TS]

  enjoy it and it seems so silly and and [TS]

  if I was listening to this not having [TS]

  really had this for a while I would [TS]

  think you are bananas that sturdy [TS]

  keyboard what but that's the best way I [TS]

  can think of to describe it and I don't [TS]

  know if this is your [TS]

  Macbook what are we calling yours the [TS]

  quick escape yeah [TS]

  that has the same keyboard that this [TS]

  does doesn't it well probably not [TS]

  because you probably have the new 2017 [TS]

  keys on that oh right yeah yeah yeah [TS]

  right okay but it's very similar mm-hmm [TS]

  so you find it to be more sturdy is that [TS]

  a decent adjective for it can you figure [TS]

  out a better way to describe it I know [TS]

  what you mean it's it's basically like [TS]

  what Johnny I've and his white world [TS]

  video described as precise or stable and [TS]

  so I know the feeling unfortunately I [TS]

  hesitate to use the word sturdy because [TS]

  it's unreliable in the 20 and I haven't [TS]

  gotten it replaced by the AppleCare bar [TS]

  yet because I just don't I haven't at [TS]

  the time then I need to use this [TS]

  computer but yeah so i assuming that i [TS]

  can get this fixed it'll it'll then be [TS]

  probably the same keyboard and then it [TS]

  will be precise and stable and sturdy [TS]

  and everything else but until then i [TS]

  can't agree with the the specific words [TS]

  thirty because it keeps failing fair [TS]

  enough so coming back to the actual [TS]

  point we're trying to make none of the [TS]

  three of us can see the difference in [TS]

  these two pictures no but there is a [TS]

  different hundred out there right back [TS]

  in and like mark up these diagrams or [TS]

  you know tell us what we're supposed to [TS]

  be seeing cuz i've looked at them for a [TS]

  long time and i I'm not I'm not getting [TS]

  it I I don't doubt that that this this [TS]

  is accurate and you know I'm not trying [TS]

  to say that this is fake news it's just [TS]

  that for my eyes I cannot tell the [TS]

  difference I'm sure there's a difference [TS]

  but darned if I can see where it is [TS]

  alright moving on [TS]

  Joseph writes a very very fascinating [TS]

  email about USBC yeah this was awesome [TS]

  because like his last episode we I had [TS]

  complained that one of the problems with [TS]

  the USBC lifestyle is that you kind of [TS]

  can't go all-in on it yet because see to [TS]

  me the one thing I just didn't really [TS]

  ever come around to saying but I should [TS]

  have said is like my goal here is okay [TS]

  if I have a laptop that has all USB C [TS]

  ports on it let me go to Amazon and just [TS]

  buy all new cables for everything the [TS]

  end in USB C and then I can totally [TS]

  avoid having to use weird adapters a [TS]

  liver the place for almost anything [TS]

  I'll just get USB C cables for all my [TS]

  stuff and if I need to and I can get a [TS]

  couple of new things like a USB C card [TS]

  reader and [TS]

  a couple of things and then I'm [TS]

  converted and I can just bring USBC [TS]

  cables with me on trips that is the [TS]

  dream and that is pretty much impossible [TS]

  to do in practice or it's hard to do in [TS]

  practice because my complaint last time [TS]

  is basically there are no USB C hubs [TS]

  that multiply USB C ports two more USB [TS]

  seaports the only one I knew of was the [TS]

  one that's inside the LG 5k display [TS]

  which converts one to three and those [TS]

  are D and those are just USB C 3.1 not [TS]

  you know Thunderbolt or DisplayPort [TS]

  which we'll get to in a second all week [TS]

  people have been sending me hubs and [TS]

  they say oh I think this does it almost [TS]

  none of them actually do almost every [TS]

  other hub that people sent me this past [TS]

  week the only thing it did was it had [TS]

  USB C import and and a single USBC out [TS]

  port so the best it could do is not lose [TS]

  you the port but but it still would not [TS]

  create more the only product I found [TS]

  that actually created more there's a [TS]

  Belkin hub for like 30 bucks it has one [TS]

  star reviews everywhere because it's [TS]

  it's totally passive and unpowered it [TS]

  converts one USB C port to two USB C [TS]

  ports and two USB a ports and actually [TS]

  bought one I have one right here it's [TS]

  fine [TS]

  it is unpowered so it can't like really [TS]

  charge anything meaningfully and you [TS]

  can't plug in like high draw current [TS]

  things to it but and and the reason it [TS]

  has one star reviews everywhere is that [TS]

  nobody expected that when they bought it [TS]

  and it also does not do power [TS]

  pass-through so Casey wouldn't help you [TS]

  at all because you couldn't charge your [TS]

  bank adorable while you while this will [TS]

  slow down but if you have anything but a [TS]

  macbook one so if you have any more than [TS]

  one USB port you can plug this into one [TS]

  of the second ones that's not being used [TS]

  for power and you can you can turn more [TS]

  important so - so this is the only thing [TS]

  out there and everything else does not [TS]

  do this and and so Joseph C mail which [TS]

  is full of wonderful information about [TS]

  us PC spec that he's very familiar with [TS]

  basically tells us why it's so what [TS]

  basically why aren't their hubs out [TS]

  there that multiply USB seaports in two [TS]

  more USB sea ports with the same [TS]

  capabilities as the ones built into the [TS]

  laptop right and so I'm going to read [TS]

  most of the scene [TS]

  it's a little bit on the long side [TS]

  especially for feedback email but it's [TS]

  fascinating and I think it's worth it so [TS]

  go on go on this journey with me kids [TS]

  the problem this is Joseph now the [TS]

  problem with doing USBC hubs is the spec [TS]

  USBC has alternate modes there's [TS]

  Thunderbolt and DisplayPort when you go [TS]

  into thunderbolt mode the wires are [TS]

  completely disconnected from the USB [TS]

  controller hand it over to the [TS]

  Thunderbolt controller when you go into [TS]

  the DisplayPort mode the wires are [TS]

  completely disconnected from the USB [TS]

  controller and handed it over to the [TS]

  display controller the key here is that [TS]

  this is all done at connection time so I [TS]

  think you can see the problems with hubs [TS]

  if you plug in a hub and nothing's [TS]

  plugged into it from below then what is [TS]

  it well to USB hub right so now the [TS]

  upstream lanes from that hub or USB and [TS]

  this is connected inside the PC or Mac [TS]

  as USB but those ports below the hub [TS]

  haven't changed there's still the same [TS]

  USBC connector which can have [TS]

  Thunderbolt or DisplayPort devices [TS]

  plugged in so now you go to plug in a [TS]

  display to the downstream hubs ports [TS]

  well it can't be a display because that [TS]

  would mean you need to the upstream port [TS]

  to be renegotiated as a display you can [TS]

  force the rego renegotiation but if you [TS]

  did that then none of the other ports [TS]

  downstream from the hub can now be USP [TS]

  USB ports because the upstream port is [TS]

  no longer USB it's DisplayPort and you [TS]

  can see a similar issue for Thunderbolt [TS]

  now there's an interesting thing here [TS]

  and I'm sure somebody at Apple's thought [TS]

  of it [TS]

  Thunderbolt itself can carry DisplayPort [TS]

  it's a Time multiplex bus and since [TS]

  Thunderbolt is really just PCI Express [TS]

  over a cable with the same multiplexing [TS]

  ability of a display you can build a [TS]

  Thunderbolt hub or dock that has a USB C [TS]

  capable host controller in it and thus [TS]

  the upstream is Thunderbolt but the [TS]

  downstream ports can still be USB C [TS]

  because those ports are now quote [TS]

  unquote route ports I think Thunderbolt [TS]

  adopting the u.s. PC connector here is [TS]

  like a Trojan horse call it USB C but [TS]

  instead it's really thunderbolt and [TS]

  Thunderbolt takes over the world from [TS]

  within the USB C spec by making the [TS]

  default behavior of USB C to be the [TS]

  thunderbolt alternate mode that is [TS]

  fascinating I read this email and was [TS]

  like wow this is a lot of text this is [TS]

  the sort of email I would normally be [TS]

  like okay whatever I am so glad I hadn't [TS]

  spent the time because we actually did [TS]

  cut some of it this was one of my [TS]

  favorite team feedback emails ever it [TS]

  was and it tells you basically [TS]

  everything you need to know yes I have a [TS]

  feeling however the [TS]

  that you guys have some thoughts on this [TS]

  yeah yeah I mean basically to summarize [TS]

  like because of the way it works you you [TS]

  basically can't make a hub that is [TS]

  reasonably good that multiplies the [TS]

  port's that are on the laptop that have [TS]

  all the same capabilities so you it's [TS]

  you're basically never gonna get one [TS]

  that has that can multiply to like more [TS]

  displays or more high very high speed [TS]

  Thunderbolt peripherals the the problem [TS]

  is that you know you buy USB C stuff you [TS]

  don't really unless you're painting [TS]

  really close attention and you're a huge [TS]

  nerd you don't really know which [TS]

  alternate mode if any it needs to work [TS]

  like I have I have this card reader I [TS]

  have some Ethernet adapters and it's [TS]

  like well are any of these Thunderbolt [TS]

  devices or are they all us PC devices I [TS]

  don't actually know and as a nerd I can [TS]

  figure out well the problem not the [TS]

  normal devices because that would be you [TS]

  know overkill but like how are regular [TS]

  people supposed to navigate this weird [TS]

  world like they tried to make this [TS]

  connector this one unified thing and [TS]

  this will solve all of our problems but [TS]

  in reality this is a world of hurt and [TS]

  it's it's complicated by things like you [TS]

  know by these alternate modes well yeah [TS]

  it's nice that you can put displays and [TS]

  Thunderbolt over you know over the same [TS]

  connector and stuff but like Casey's [TS]

  MacBook one doesn't have Thunderbolt it [TS]

  only thing it's just I was just about to [TS]

  interrupt you and say exactly right [TS]

  because that reminded me one of the [TS]

  things that people were one of the [TS]

  common themes amongst what people [TS]

  suggested for alternate dongles for me [TS]

  is Oh use this thing that has everything [TS]

  you want and a lot of the times it did [TS]

  but it was Thunderbolt and not USB see [TS]

  and it wasn't until I got the adorable [TS]

  that it was really made clear to me that [TS]

  that just like you said Marco this this [TS]

  machine does have USB see but it does [TS]

  not support Thunderbolt via that [TS]

  connector so so I have a very small [TS]

  subset of things that I can use that are [TS]

  all on the same physical connector but [TS]

  internally are very very different yeah [TS]

  and so this whole that this these [TS]

  connectors are kind of a mess like the [TS]

  whole the whole spec the way the [TS]

  standard works it's kind of like if you [TS]

  just look at USB see as USB 3.1 as the [TS]

  protocol and you only connect USB 3.1 or [TS]

  3 devices to it that's great then it is [TS]

  just a smaller connector for the [TS]

  standard [TS]

  already had before with usb3 and it's [TS]

  great because there's lots of USB [TS]

  devices out there and USB 3 is a great [TS]

  standard relatively speaking and and we [TS]

  can connect everything that's fine the [TS]

  problem comes like that there's all [TS]

  these little asterisks on it and that's [TS]

  going to just end and those asterisks [TS]

  apply to devices computers cables and [TS]

  hubs all four of those things can screw [TS]

  this up in some way and make something [TS]

  that you bought just not work for a [TS]

  reason that to most people would be a [TS]

  mystery and and even though the computer [TS]

  can put up some kind of weird dialogue [TS]

  of it smart that's still not really [TS]

  helping the problem so it's it's nice [TS]

  that they unify this all into one [TS]

  connector but the implementation details [TS]

  make it kind of a mess so the idea of [TS]

  the Thunderbolt being like you know the [TS]

  catch-all or the Trojan horse like [TS]

  everyone's gonna put these ports in [TS]

  their machines but they'll eventually [TS]

  learn that you know it's neat that you [TS]

  can connect display and also USB device [TS]

  to that thing but really the only [TS]

  protocol that can tunnel everything over [TS]

  it and multiply stuff out is Thunderbolt [TS]

  so a thunderbolt will take over the [TS]

  world because it's the it's the superset [TS]

  of everything like won't everybody just [TS]

  make everything Thunderbolt because once [TS]

  they learn oh you know if you give you [TS]

  like this email says if you plug in a [TS]

  hub you if the thing has to decide [TS]

  whether it is and you know sending [TS]

  through DisplayPort a USB or Thunderbolt [TS]

  and why wouldn't everybody just a [TS]

  thunderbolt and the reason everyone [TS]

  won't do thunderbolt is because it's [TS]

  more expensive it's more expensive [TS]

  everywhere it's more expensive in the [TS]

  cables in the in the hardware that's in [TS]

  the hubs and the purpose like at USB is [TS]

  just cheaper to implement so it's going [TS]

  to be very difficult for Thunderbolt to [TS]

  take over everywhere and maybe Intel [TS]

  opening up with Thunderbolt spec will [TS]

  help with this because people can make [TS]

  like knockoff controllers legally [TS]

  knockoffs but like legally they can [TS]

  implement their own spec router but I [TS]

  think it's just more expensive to [TS]

  implement even if you don't have to do [TS]

  the active cables with the chips in them [TS]

  because you have a low speed device or [TS]

  whatever I'm not entirely sure that you [TS]

  we're gonna get the Thunderbolt everyone [TS]

  I think it will help for the high end [TS]

  devices where people are spending gobs [TS]

  and money on the you know upcoming Mac [TS]

  Pro and there's a bunch of Thunderbolt [TS]

  peripherals that you can attach to it [TS]

  and there's tons of you know PCI Express [TS]

  Lanes inside the box and you know but I [TS]

  think it will probably live on the high [TS]

  end but for the medium to low end like [TS]

  people just using their laptops [TS]

  around it's almost like this is yet [TS]

  another problem the more port solve in [TS]

  theory again I'm not sure how many lanes [TS]

  there are but if you know if you've got [TS]

  this port of like oh this one is [TS]

  connected to redisplay so it has to be [TS]

  display and this one is USB so it's [TS]

  connected by USB hub like if if you can [TS]

  have more ports and have each individual [TS]

  port beside what it wants to be [TS]

  independently but you probably can't do [TS]

  completely independently once you [TS]

  register a number of ports because [TS]

  there's just not enough you know [TS]

  controllers on the inside but surely you [TS]

  know in Casey's case if you had one more [TS]

  port that one port could decide well [TS]

  he's gonna burn one in power so one is [TS]

  power and then USB and then one is [TS]

  display so so you had a 3 port computer [TS]

  those three ports and those 3 ports [TS]

  could decide individually what they [TS]

  wanted to be if there was sufficient you [TS]

  know controller hardware and [TS]

  independence inside the box maybe maybe [TS]

  forget about KC's thing sorry adorable [TS]

  you're stuck go to Markos computer [TS]

  surely Markos computer you could put 4 [TS]

  ports in that thing one of the D power [TS]

  and three other ones and then those [TS]

  three ports can decide what they want to [TS]

  be and then you get the advantage of [TS]

  having a bunch of uniform ports in your [TS]

  computer that are all the same shape and [TS]

  size and you just plug display in this [TS]

  one and put your hub and this one and [TS]

  put your power in that one and they all [TS]

  just work but once a daisy chains that [TS]

  it's like well what are you even daisy [TS]

  chaining like you can't you can't sweep [TS]

  that under the carpet because it's not [TS]

  like there's one magic protocol that [TS]

  does everything well there kind of is [TS]

  its Thunderbolt but it's the most [TS]

  expensive one and that isn't a lot of [TS]

  all your peripherals so every time you [TS]

  plug something in you're sort of [TS]

  deciding what this port is going to be [TS]

  and plugging in a box that has a bunch [TS]

  of other ports on it you basically just [TS]

  decided that the thing has to be [TS]

  Thunderbolt and now everything is [TS]

  expensive yes okay uh definitely on the [TS]

  Hall of Fame for me for a great feedback [TS]

  emails really what that yeah Marco you [TS]

  have some home pod follow up according [TS]

  to the night news Oh tell me more okay [TS]

  so this is this is probably my second [TS]

  favorite follow up in the history of [TS]

  follow up my favorite follow up in the [TS]

  history of follow up is there is an old [TS]

  episode of it was either connected or [TS]

  the connected predecessor show the [TS]

  prompt one of those shows [TS]

  Mike had misstated his own age he was [TS]

  off by one and a listener wrote in the [TS]

  next episode to correct him on his own [TS]

  age [TS]

  that's my favorite follow-up ever this [TS]

  is my second favorite follow-up ever we [TS]

  spent about a half hour and a couple [TS]

  episodes ago speculating about whether [TS]

  the home pod had a screen or not and one [TS]

  guy even wrote in to say like it was [TS]

  somebody basically like a tipster about [TS]

  it saying here's how it's actually [TS]

  implemented there's this diffuser and [TS]

  there's these LEDs below it and it's not [TS]

  really a screen and but it might be a [TS]

  screen later on and we talked about this [TS]

  for like a half-hour it turns out none [TS]

  of us thought to check Apple's site but [TS]

  Rob buck house did and Rob buck house [TS]

  writes in to say Apple site clears us up [TS]

  pretty well there's a section on the [TS]

  home pod page that says tap the top of [TS]

  home pod to play pause or adjust the [TS]

  volume it also shows you when Siri is [TS]

  listening with an LED waveform that [TS]

  animates with your every word yeah I had [TS]

  read that when we did the show that's [TS]

  why we talked about the idea of it being [TS]

  like okay well maybe this is just a [TS]

  temporary one and they'll put the real [TS]

  screen on it later so who knows I [TS]

  thought we had all read the website at [TS]

  the time we were discussing it yeah but [TS]

  I think if Apple is putting this on [TS]

  their product page saying this is what [TS]

  home pod does and this is the thing it [TS]

  has that's it that's final yeah that's [TS]

  what they're doing if you read the text [TS]

  there's no screen describe something as [TS]

  an LED waveform even if it's a screen [TS]

  because you know they have like LED TV [TS]

  they wouldn't say LED I know LED TVs [TS]

  aren't really LED right and if it was [TS]

  old I said it would say it would say [TS]

  OLED like it's not and it's if it was a [TS]

  if it was an LCD screen it would say LCD [TS]

  or it would say anything I said it fits [TS]

  within if they wanted to change this to [TS]

  a screen they wouldn't have to change [TS]

  that copy but but either way as I said [TS]

  on the show it this is not the type of [TS]

  thing that you would do as a stopgap [TS]

  right because it's just too complicated [TS]

  it's too complicated and too polished to [TS]

  have in there as a stopgap if they if [TS]

  they were gonna make it a bitmap display [TS]

  they would already have done that they [TS]

  wouldn't have spent all this time on [TS]

  this weird thing yeah I fix it well show [TS]

  us exactly how many colored LEDs are [TS]

  inside there but it's probably fewer [TS]

  than her in the Google home because I [TS]

  think Google home like I said Google [TS]

  them it's like a ring of them so it's [TS]

  got a lot this probably just has I don't [TS]

  know maybe 20 who knows [TS]

  we are sponsored this week by fracture [TS]

  who prints vivid color photos directly [TS]

  on glass visit fracture maqams / podcast [TS]

  for more info fracture is a photo decor [TS]

  company that's out to rescue your [TS]

  favorite photos from the digital either [TS]

  they print photos directly on to glass [TS]

  with a laser-cut rigid backing so it's [TS]

  ready to hang up right out of the box [TS]

  they even include the wall anchor all [TS]

  you have to do is upload a digital photo [TS]

  and pick your size it is that simple and [TS]

  the fracture printing process makes the [TS]

  color and contrast really pop and the [TS]

  sleek edge to edge frameless design of [TS]

  these wonderful pieces of glass lets [TS]

  your photo stand out and it matches [TS]

  pretty much any decorating style and [TS]

  again you don't have to get these frame [TS]

  they are their own thing already so you [TS]

  hang it up it's ready to go and it looks [TS]

  great with fracture you can bring a [TS]

  special memory to life and they also [TS]

  make fantastic gifts if you want to get [TS]

  them for their special people in your [TS]

  life maybe you take a photo of your kid [TS]

  or your dog and give it to you know [TS]

  their grandparents like they really [TS]

  appreciate that these make wonderful [TS]

  gifts we've given lots of them over time [TS]

  we have our our house is filled with [TS]

  fractures they're amazing they look [TS]

  great we get compliments on them all the [TS]

  time [TS]

  Tiff's are actually recently ordered a [TS]

  giant one eye it's something like 2 feet [TS]

  wide and it looks fantastic and then it [TS]

  comes in a massive box [TS]

  it's pretty great and they scale up from [TS]

  like the size of a CD cover all the way [TS]

  up to that and it looks great fracture [TS]

  comes with a 60-day happiness guarantee [TS]

  on all prints so you're sure to love [TS]

  your order and each fracture is handmade [TS]

  in gainesville florida from us source [TS]

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  for more information and 10% off your [TS]

  first order visit fracture me comm slash [TS]

  podcast and in there give you a [TS]

  one-question survey basically just ask [TS]

  you what podcasts did you hear about [TS]

  this from so make sure you put a teepee [TS]

  in there so that they know you came from [TS]

  here it helps support us and it helps [TS]

  tell them where their ads are working so [TS]

  it's great for everybody once again to [TS]

  get 10% of your first order go to [TS]

  fracture slash podcast and make [TS]

  sure to tell them that a teepee sent you [TS]

  thank you very much to fracture for [TS]

  sponsoring our show [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  speaking of new family members Marco you [TS]

  have welcomed a new family member to [TS]

  your house can you tell us about this [TS]

  well there's master risks on that [TS]

  did you already return it is that the [TS]

  essence today I received my my pre-order [TS]

  of the echo show the new Amazon echo [TS]

  device with the screen and the the [TS]

  reviews had come out yesterday or the [TS]

  day before and their reviews showed it [TS]

  in different angles and in real life [TS]

  before this when we were pre-ordered we [TS]

  were only shown like the product shots [TS]

  which were taken at a very careful angle [TS]

  and even at that very ideal flattering [TS]

  angle this looks like a pretty ugly [TS]

  product but I thought okay but you know [TS]

  the echos I love the echo cylinder it's [TS]

  really useful we use it all the time and [TS]

  there are contexts in which it would be [TS]

  nice to have a screen you know there you [TS]

  know there is you know the timer is [TS]

  especially timers the big one you can [TS]

  watch the timer countdown or like a lot [TS]

  of like Tiff's will ask it about the [TS]

  weather in the morning it would be nice [TS]

  to see that so as opposed to you know [TS]

  just having to sit through this like [TS]

  four sentence long description of the [TS]

  weather you know so a screen would be [TS]

  helpful we thought and I convinced if [TS]

  despite the way it looked [TS]

  - - let me preorder one and try it so we [TS]

  get it here set it up plug it in and boy [TS]

  the thing is hideous in person I mean it [TS]

  is really ugly in person and and if you [TS]

  look at all the reviews and we got the [TS]

  white one - I figured that would be a [TS]

  little bit less hideous no it's just as [TS]

  hideous is it is it uglier than the [TS]

  original Kindle no but it is larger all [TS]

  right like I think it is it can't be [TS]

  uglier but it does it doesn't pose the [TS]

  obvious that it has it doesn't pose that [TS]

  more in your face than the original [TS]

  Kindle that is it right there and so let [TS]

  me expand on that so basically so it [TS]

  would plug it and now like because I [TS]

  hadn't opened up the Alexa app in a long [TS]

  time I had not yet connected it to being [TS]

  a try to do it's like FaceTime or [TS]

  calling thing so I open it up in order [TS]

  to set this up I'm required to give the [TS]

  Alexa app [TS]

  real name and confirm it and then it [TS]

  really tries hard to get me to give it a [TS]

  phone number and access to my contact [TS]

  list so we can periodically sync it with [TS]

  us at the gammas on service and i say no [TS]

  no no and there's no that you can skip [TS]

  that part you can skip the contact and [TS]

  phone number part but you can't skip the [TS]

  name part and you I don't see any way to [TS]

  opt out of calling completely I don't [TS]

  want people calling me on my echo [TS]

  I know Amazon just launched the service [TS]

  where they you know they are doing that [TS]

  they had like their own like FaceTime [TS]

  network I could not possibly care less [TS]

  or be less interested in using it like [TS]

  we have a million other ways to do that [TS]

  now that are all better and not run by [TS]

  could be companies like Amazon so that [TS]

  the whole idea of being forced to set [TS]

  this up and not having a clear opt-out [TS]

  really put me off so I was already kind [TS]

  of unhappy and maybe that colored my [TS]

  later reaction so we set the thing up [TS]

  the first thing that's to do is the [TS]

  software update okay fine [TS]

  software B takes forever no can't walk [TS]

  away you know obviously they couldn't [TS]

  update the software you know before they [TS]

  ship to me two days ago but okay and [TS]

  then the thing finally boots up and the [TS]

  screen is super bright and I know we can [TS]

  probably change that but the screen is [TS]

  super bright and it's just blaring news [TS]

  headlines at you that you that lates and [TS]

  it the frit it's like you know some [TS]

  celebrity baby thing I don't care at all [TS]

  like the last thing I want is for this [TS]

  screen to be blaring visually blaring [TS]

  news headlines at me and we tried a [TS]

  couple things okay I guess we'll set [TS]

  this up like we don't have calendars [TS]

  paired yet so the counter screen is not [TS]

  usually yet but I really want to give [TS]

  Amazon access to my calendar well maybe [TS]

  not me okay I won't judge it on that [TS]

  let's try playing some music so the [TS]

  first thing is it completely fails to [TS]

  recognize my Amazon music whatever [TS]

  whatever the subscription is that is on [TS]

  the echo that like the premium thing for [TS]

  the echo there's like four bucks a month [TS]

  we have that and it totally failed to [TS]

  recognize it I don't know why it [TS]

  eventually started working the sound [TS]

  quality on it is really poor it is only [TS]

  a very small improvement over the echo [TS]

  cylinder and I don't care for that like [TS]

  they had all this time [TS]

  this device costs two hundred and thirty [TS]

  dollars and granted yes it has a screen [TS]

  and everything so that's that's a pretty [TS]

  good price for order is but they [TS]

  couldn't improve the sound quality like [TS]

  that think that's like the one major [TS]

  problem with the echo cylinders sound [TS]

  quality and they they really I would say [TS]

  they almost didn't improve it at all [TS]

  it's it's very very close to the old one [TS]

  and and it just like it just keeps [TS]

  blaring this this screen at us and I and [TS]

  TIFF was very quickly out of love and I [TS]

  and I very quickly followed because what [TS]

  I realized was regardless of what anyone [TS]

  else thinks of this product I had made a [TS]

  mistake in thinking it was right for us [TS]

  because one thing that I now realize in [TS]

  retrospect that we like about the echo [TS]

  cylinder is that it is it does not take [TS]

  visual attention away from anything it [TS]

  is this you know it's not pretty but [TS]

  it's discreet you know it's this black [TS]

  cylinder you put somewhere they had to [TS]

  come in white to now so it's the [TS]

  cylinder you put somewhere and you don't [TS]

  really ever have to look at it it [TS]

  doesn't draw attention to itself so the [TS]

  the echo cylinder fits into your life in [TS]

  a more discreet way the echo show with [TS]

  the screen draws attention in it draws [TS]

  your eyes and it takes attention out of [TS]

  the room and it does it for something [TS]

  that really doesn't deserve that kind of [TS]

  attention it is it is just this the [TS]

  screen in your kitchen that's telling [TS]

  you about Kanye's baby or whatever and I [TS]

  could not possibly like and yeah I'm [TS]

  sure I can figure those things in in [TS]

  some different way but just like this [TS]

  thing draws your eye and it's designed [TS]

  to do that it's Amazon stuff is not good [TS]

  enough to make it worth using they're [TS]

  they're gooeys and I kind of knew that [TS]

  already I don't I don't know why I [TS]

  thought those would be any different [TS]

  but for some reason I thought this would [TS]

  be different and that was a mistake so [TS]

  this thing is not for us at all so I'm [TS]

  returning it well that's disappointing [TS]

  but maybe you got the Amazon echo show [TS]

  with special offers paid 50 bucks more [TS]

  without special offers yeah and and and [TS]

  what one of the things that makes me sad [TS]

  about this is I realize like what [TS]

  there is a future where they make their [TS]

  app even worse and they make me and they [TS]

  require my calling information or [TS]

  whatever else or they require more stuff [TS]

  I don't want to give them or if there's [TS]

  a future in which all echos have screens [TS]

  and and there is no more option to get [TS]

  on that or or that the ones without [TS]

  screens start sucking because they [TS]

  because the service assumes you always [TS]

  have one or something like that [TS]

  you know like it made me realize I quite [TS]

  how fragile this ecosystem is because [TS]

  this was depending on Amazon doing this [TS]

  one cool thing just just keep doing it [TS]

  like there's one thing they made it's [TS]

  great this the cylinders like they're [TS]

  great just keep doing that but instead [TS]

  they're broadening outreaches weird [TS]

  creepy things like the look and and the [TS]

  show that are going in a direction that [TS]

  I really don't like and again if you you [TS]

  know if you listeners like this stuff [TS]

  that's fine [TS]

  all I'm saying is this was dramatically [TS]

  not for us and not but not the kind of [TS]

  thing we were looking for even though I [TS]

  probably should have no not going in but [TS]

  I didn't oh well sometimes it happens [TS]

  but it made me think for a second like [TS]

  I'm actually gonna be really sad if this [TS]

  ecosystem goes south in a way that ruins [TS]

  the cylinder for us because I really [TS]

  like the cylinder the way it has been [TS]

  and if that goes away like I mean I [TS]

  guess we could try the the Google air [TS]

  freshener but I'm not a big fan of that [TS]

  the home pod might be great but we don't [TS]

  really know yet and honestly the more I [TS]

  keep trying Syria I keep giving it the [TS]

  benefit of the doubt and it keeps making [TS]

  me not want to try it anymore [TS]

  I don't have a good luck with Siri so so [TS]

  I'm not incredibly optimistic about that [TS]

  and and the home pod is also larger and [TS]

  much more expensive and so it'll be hard [TS]

  to justify buying you know more than one [TS]

  of them or I don't know home pod is a [TS]

  big question mark [TS]

  I hope Amazon does not screw up what [TS]

  they have that's really great with the [TS]

  echo cylinders with the new weird creepy [TS]

  stuff they're trying to do now so what [TS]

  did you think you were going to get from [TS]

  from the echo show when you bought it [TS]

  like I don't mean that in an in a nasty [TS]

  way I'm genuinely asking like did you [TS]

  think oh it'll be really nice to have I [TS]

  don't know a visible view of your [TS]

  grocery list [TS]

  you'd made mention of your calendar like [TS]

  what sorts of things did you think this [TS]

  was going to help out with that it seems [TS]

  to either not or do a crummy job of it [TS]

  the only reasons I really wanted the [TS]

  screen were to show me timers and [TS]

  whether that's about it and and I and we [TS]

  don't I didn't need the screen like we [TS]

  get along just fine with a cylinder but [TS]

  it would just be nicer to be able to [TS]

  like just glance at timer statuses and [TS]

  just and just you know see the weather [TS]

  presented without having to listen to [TS]

  the full you know three sentence [TS]

  description with all the words in it [TS]

  like that would be nice and this is [TS]

  again like everyone out there is yelling [TS]

  at me to just you know we're an Apple [TS]

  watch because then it really does solve [TS]

  many of these problems and Siri even [TS]

  occasionally works on that so that that [TS]

  that could be nice but it but it's just [TS]

  not the way I want to do things so you [TS]

  know this is all really nitpicky stuff [TS]

  and this technology is all really [TS]

  amazing so it feels weird to complain [TS]

  about any of it really because in like [TS]

  absolute terms this is all amazing and [TS]

  we should be thankful we have any of it [TS]

  but in relative terms I never want to [TS]

  use an Amazon GUI if I can help it and I [TS]

  think what I was what I was hoping for [TS]

  is more like what we thought the home [TS]

  pod might be before we read Apple's site [TS]

  which is like just a very small discreet [TS]

  screen output for small amounts of [TS]

  information to be presented subtly that [TS]

  I that I think would be nice [TS]

  it could even still be an echo cylinder [TS]

  just with like a little like like an [TS]

  OLED strip around the top to do like a [TS]

  Time Square kind of like you know [TS]

  scrolling marquee kind of size something [TS]

  like something small and discreet that [TS]

  does not draw your eye that that like if [TS]

  there's no timers and if there's nothing [TS]

  that you've asked for recently it would [TS]

  just be blank that would be nice [TS]

  but that doesn't that is terrible by the [TS]

  way nobody I know that actually is that [TS]

  but like okay a small screen like like a [TS]

  watch sized screen right you could have [TS]

  like two timer stack they're counting [TS]

  down and it would be fine you know like [TS]

  something small on the screen is what I [TS]

  wanted and this is not that this is like [TS]

  this becomes the center of attention in [TS]

  your kitchen [TS]

  or wherever you put it it's like a tea [TS]

  it's like having a TV on and I'm the [TS]

  kind of person that if I'm in a [TS]

  restaurant that has TVs and there's one [TS]

  in my field of view I'm constantly [TS]

  distracted by it and I don't want to be [TS]

  but my eyes just drawn to it that's how [TS]

  this is even though it's not always like [TS]

  moving and stuff all that sometimes is [TS]

  but like it just constantly drew my eye [TS]

  to it and I couldn't ignore it and it [TS]

  really deserves to be ignored most of [TS]

  the time so if if what you want is more [TS]

  TV like screens that are always on in [TS]

  your life this might be for you but [TS]

  that's not what I want it feels like you [TS]

  could have gotten this thing quieted [TS]

  down so to speak get it to the point [TS]

  where I mean I don't even know if it [TS]

  displays the time or in the weather [TS]

  stuff but in theory one of the things [TS]

  that Amazon might have a leg up over [TS]

  Apple on is just saying oh we'll just [TS]

  make everything configurable like you'll [TS]

  just be you know turn things on turn [TS]

  things off whatever and then you can get [TS]

  it to the point where all it ever [TS]

  displays is your three timers in the [TS]

  weather and you start looking at it more [TS]

  like like an old-style clock radio where [TS]

  yeah the light that's constantly on but [TS]

  doesn't change much it just shows the [TS]

  time all you know I mean yeah it's [TS]

  probably wise to wait for a [TS]

  second-generation device instead of this [TS]

  hideous thing but on the other hand look [TS]

  at your cylinder they haven't made great [TS]

  strides with that cylinder they did I [TS]

  wouldn't worry too much about the [TS]

  ecosystem going all screened because [TS]

  they still got the the dot and then they [TS]

  got the cylinder and then they got this [TS]

  and now they've got like a three Park [TS]

  family not even counting all the weird [TS]

  buttons that you pressed to get paper [TS]

  towels and stuff so I think Amazon will [TS]

  keep making one of everything but I also [TS]

  think if they actually iterate on this [TS]

  which remains to be seen it they will [TS]

  but if they do iterate on it I think [TS]

  this this approach is better than the [TS]

  hey just give me cylinder with a tiny [TS]

  screen because so whatever the tiny [TS]

  screen is just has more limited use [TS]

  cases what you really want is instead of [TS]

  this this thing looks like like a [TS]

  speaker grille housing apparently some [TS]

  crappy speakers and then a screen on top [TS]

  of it what you really want is for it to [TS]

  be and what people are going to suggest [TS]

  so why don't you have an iPad in your [TS]

  kitchen because then you can run [TS]

  whatever app you want you figure out [TS]

  whoever you want use hey Siri to do [TS]

  everything you want and won't that solve [TS]

  your problems and you already hear our [TS]

  discuss no it won't biggest seer [TS]

  doesn't listen to me and does dumb [TS]

  things but having a big giant screen [TS]

  that can do anything is much more [TS]

  flexible than having a small screen that [TS]

  can do the three things that you want to [TS]

  do with it [TS]

  provided you can make the big screen you [TS]

  know quiet down not show you special [TS]

  offers by the way if people don't know [TS]

  what that's a reference to the Kindles [TS]

  for many years perhaps they still do [TS]

  this you get a Kindle cheaper if you're [TS]

  willing to have ads displayed on it when [TS]

  you're not using it and Amazon had a [TS]

  euphemism for this they called it Kindle [TS]

  with special offers that way of saying [TS]

  buy this Kindle for less money and will [TS]

  constantly show you ads and if you want [TS]

  the as they go away give us a little bit [TS]

  of more money and let me tell you that's [TS]

  the best money you'll ever spend in your [TS]

  life their book to show the special [TS]

  offers yeah it was only it was only 25 [TS]

  bucks it wasn't a massive amount of [TS]

  money [TS]

  yeah like get the one by all means get [TS]

  the one with special offers and then [TS]

  just say every quarter that you're fine [TS]

  like in the laundry just keep saving [TS]

  that until you get 25 bucks and then [TS]

  spend it it's great yeah use your money [TS]

  but anyway I'm still a believer in a big [TS]

  screen thing that is stationary and [TS]

  plugged in and has cameras and [TS]

  microphones and good speakers in it but [TS]

  apparently this is not yet it but I also [TS]

  think that Marco didn't quite give this [TS]

  a long enough chance to know exactly how [TS]

  much he would hate her like because I [TS]

  feel like if you had kept it for a [TS]

  couple weeks you could probably come to [TS]

  some uneasy truce with this super bright [TS]

  screen and get it settled down and then [TS]

  then you really know whether like it's [TS]

  untenable and this needs to go or [TS]

  whatever but it's probably easier for [TS]

  all involved if you don't add more of [TS]

  these devices to your house so maybe [TS]

  just start buying cylinders and [TS]

  stockpiling them now yeah it'll be Marco [TS]

  with the cylinders Gruber with his [TS]

  keyboards john steven hackett with [TS]

  everything well see the thing with the [TS]

  keyboards is you can probably keep [TS]

  getting this to work but the cylinder is [TS]

  like if Amazon gives up on the cylinders [TS]

  the cylinder is useless without the yak [TS]

  and services that feed it so numbers [TS]

  have a bunch of useless and market you [TS]

  would know to have they ever revised the [TS]

  cylinder no that's that's not a good [TS]

  sign they've already they revised the [TS]

  dot already there's been two dots [TS]

  and there's been the other ones that no [TS]

  one buys that the the tap and oh god [TS]

  what's the other one called [TS]

  there's two other ones that nobody buys [TS]

  but the tap and the spud and the da yeah [TS]

  but but yeah like there's been two dots [TS]

  but there's only ever been one [TS]

  full-sized cylinder all right anything [TS]

  else on the echo show hopefully not we [TS]

  are sponsored this week by Harry is [TS]

  giving you a great shave at a fair price [TS]

  go to slash ATP for more info [TS]

  and to get a free trial set Harry's is [TS]

  all about giving you a high quality [TS]

  great shave and they do this with these [TS]

  wonderful five bladed razor cartridges [TS]

  and if you've ever seen a five blade [TS]

  razor cartridge in a store before you [TS]

  know roughly what they cost [TS]

  Harry's blades are half the cost of the [TS]

  leading other razor out there that you [TS]

  probably know of and have probably [TS]

  bought if you ever need to shave and I [TS]

  probably regretted how much you paid for [TS]

  it Harry's blades are an incredible [TS]

  value because they bought their own [TS]

  factory it's a wonderful German factory [TS]

  with over a hundred years of blade [TS]

  making experience they give you high [TS]

  quality blades backed by a hundred [TS]

  percent quality guarantee they are so [TS]

  confident you're going to love their [TS]

  blades they want to give you a trial set [TS]

  for free here's what you do you sign up [TS]

  at Harry's comm slash ATP you just pay [TS]

  three bucks for shipping and they will [TS]

  give you the trial set which is a 13 [TS]

  dollar value just for free all you gotta [TS]

  do is cover the shipping three bucks for [TS]

  the shipping and you get the trial set [TS]

  that includes a razor handle it includes [TS]

  five blades in the cartridge with the [TS]

  lubricating strip and a trimmer blade [TS]

  rich lathering shave gel a travel blade [TS]

  cover which is also when you travel all [TS]

  that just $3.00 for shipping at Harry's [TS]

  comm slash ATP it's all about a great [TS]

  shave at a fair price and they know [TS]

  you're gonna love it so try out the [TS]

  trial set today slash ATP [TS]

  thank you very much to Harry's for [TS]

  sponsoring our show [TS]

  once again ok moving on we wanted to [TS]

  talk a little bit about iOS drag and [TS]

  drop and I have not really experienced [TS]

  this yet I don't have a new iPad I [TS]

  haven't put the beta on my iPad Mini but [TS]

  there's there was a little bit of [TS]

  discussion that I think all of us had [TS]

  had overheard when we were in San Jose [TS]

  for W [TS]

  DC and it was a really fascinating [TS]

  conversation that I'm gonna try my best [TS]

  to summarize so dr. wave Michael Johnson [TS]

  of Pixar had an interesting use case [TS]

  that he didn't feel like the existing [TS]

  drag-and-drop API would work with and [TS]

  his specific examples slightly different [TS]

  than this but I heard him talk about [TS]

  this a couple of times with a couple of [TS]

  people and I'm gonna use his example [TS]

  that is not really for Pixar but just a [TS]

  general example so let's say you had a [TS]

  photograph that you were dragging from [TS]

  say photos into pages vo the Apple word [TS]

  processor app what what dr. wave was [TS]

  saying was in general like say on a Mac [TS]

  you would expect that as you're dragging [TS]

  this photo over the text that's in pages [TS]

  say you're dragging it into the middle [TS]

  of like an essay or something you would [TS]

  expect that the text would flow around [TS]

  the image such that it's hugging the [TS]

  borders of the sandwich presumably this [TS]

  image is some sort of rectangle and you [TS]

  know it's it's trying to hug the four [TS]

  edges of that image as best as possible [TS]

  so as you drag it up all the text moves [TS]

  down as you drag it down all the text [TS]

  moves up etc I'm trying my best to paint [TS]

  a word picture here so what he was [TS]

  saying was that's not really allowed the [TS]

  way things work today and now I'm [TS]

  talking a little outside my comfort zone [TS]

  so feel free to interrupt me but [TS]

  basically you're given a bare minimum of [TS]

  I guess metadata about what's getting [TS]

  dragged if any and it's not until the [TS]

  user releases the drag and thus commits [TS]

  yes this is the app I would like to [TS]

  receive this thing I'm holding on to [TS]

  that's the moment at which the the [TS]

  destination app gets all kinds of [TS]

  information including actual object [TS]

  that's being dragged but the theory from [TS]

  Apple was until you have released your [TS]

  finger and you know taking it off the [TS]

  screen and thus dropped what you have [TS]

  quote-unquote in your hand what if you [TS]

  drag across some other app that you [TS]

  don't want to see [TS]

  anything about that informations let's [TS]

  say you have you know one of those [TS]

  situations where you have three apps [TS]

  open you're going from photos and you're [TS]

  going across Twitter and because you're [TS]

  a maniac you don't use Tweetbot you use [TS]

  the official Twitter app don't at me [TS]

  okay so you drag across Twitter app but [TS]

  you don't want Twitter to see that [TS]

  photograph and then you go into pages [TS]

  and that's when we release so that's why [TS]

  they don't want to give a not final [TS]

  destination any sort of real information [TS]

  about what's being dragged but that's a [TS]

  real bummer for cases where you want to [TS]

  do things like reflow text around an [TS]

  image so it was a very very interesting [TS]

  use case and I actually witnessed a [TS]

  couple of conversations between dr. wave [TS]

  and a couple of people including some [TS]

  Apple employees one of which was [TS]

  extremely fascinating about what are the [TS]

  pros and cons of Apple's approach and [TS]

  you know what what could or should they [TS]

  do about it and there's a lot of gray [TS]

  area here that I'm kind of fluffing over [TS]

  as an example if they're - if the source [TS]

  and destination apps are from the same [TS]

  developer you know say comics are not [TS]

  whatever then there's I believe more [TS]

  information available to you than there [TS]

  would be otherwise but I don't recall if [TS]

  that's enough to get through this [TS]

  particular problem or not but it was [TS]

  just a really really fascinating news [TS]

  case and I don't know if I should go so [TS]

  first to say edge case but it's [TS]

  certainly it's not one of those things [TS]

  where I heard this was like wow this API [TS]

  sucks it's actually wow they really [TS]

  really thought about this API they made [TS]

  a decision that may or may not have been [TS]

  the best but I think that makes sense [TS]

  and I understand why they did it so I [TS]

  don't I have not experienced this myself [TS]

  I've kind of summarized as best I can [TS]

  mark oh you have a new iPad and you do [TS]

  have the beta on it right so anything to [TS]

  add on this I thought you're wrong but [TS]

  now I'm questioning it I thought that [TS]

  there was a whole thing in DC sessions [TS]

  which I haven't I haven't finished [TS]

  watching the dragon drop ones yet but [TS]

  yeah I've seen them either yeah but I [TS]

  thought that that they actually did [TS]

  provide for photos they provided [TS]

  dimensions and there was even some way [TS]

  to to like to tell the drag agent [TS]

  how to render a preview to see like show [TS]

  a thumbnail of the image here like and [TS]

  and didn't figure federighi talk about [TS]

  that on the talk show like I for some [TS]

  reason I think you might be wrong about [TS]

  this entire this entire concept like I [TS]

  think they're like you are right that [TS]

  that they get that the apps don't [TS]

  receive information I don't receive the [TS]

  data that's being right unless it [TS]

  dropped for security concern reasons but [TS]

  I think there's this whole API in place [TS]

  for like previewing that allows the like [TS]

  the Windows Server to the the basically [TS]

  the app can tell the server like well if [TS]

  you happen to have an image let me know [TS]

  its dimensions and render it you know at [TS]

  this kind of alpha of level at this [TS]

  scale here you know I think there [TS]

  actually is waiting that you're both [TS]

  right Marco you you ever calling this [TS]

  and actually there's even more than that [TS]

  there's other places where you can stash [TS]

  a limited amount of actual data like an [TS]

  8k buffer or something and a case he's [TS]

  right about the not friend apps but like [TS]

  app groups and stuff they're all those [TS]

  things are true but the specific use [TS]

  case and the case that Apple has [TS]

  specifically protected against is [TS]

  getting it the actual data that is [TS]

  behind that dragged item they have all [TS]

  these things surrounding it to give you [TS]

  some way to let the destination know [TS]

  stuff about your thing without getting [TS]

  it the actual data and there's a couple [TS]

  reasons that one is the thing the case [TS]

  you talked about which is privacy and it [TS]

  kind of makes sense in in in the in the [TS]

  iOS ecosystem in the modern computing [TS]

  ecosystem the idea of dragging an image [TS]

  across the Facebook app and the Facebook [TS]

  app extracting all the image data and [TS]

  like analyzing it and uploading or [TS]

  whatever like that sounds crazy you're [TS]

  just paranoid no we've seen we've seen [TS]

  we've seen worse from other applications [TS]

  on iOS this is you know this is why [TS]

  Apple did this if they can't give you [TS]

  the data and so if they if they're not [TS]

  gonna give you the data then all these [TS]

  problems you're talking about well what [TS]

  do I do for you know for a preview what [TS]

  should it look like what I'm dragging it [TS]

  can I give some metadata can I give some [TS]

  limited amount of other data of my [TS]

  choosing you know a couple kilobytes of [TS]

  information and a lot of times that can [TS]

  be enough for example if the thing that [TS]

  you're dragging is representable by URL [TS]

  for example and you [TS]

  jam that URL into that you know 8 [TS]

  kilobyte field then your destination [TS]

  application it's like oh hi you're [TS]

  dragging this thing but I can't get it [TS]

  the real data it's like yeah but I my [TS]

  date is just a URL and I'll put in a [TS]

  little area and then you can read the [TS]

  URL and then you can hit the URL and [TS]

  pull down the data and get it but in [TS]

  other cases when you're dragging [TS]

  something very large like a large data [TS]

  file or something like that [TS]

  they don't want the application to get [TS]

  at that actual data and all the preview [TS]

  stuff you can do is never going to [TS]

  represent the thing I don't want to get [TS]

  into I know some more specific details [TS]

  about the use cases the Pixar thing but [TS]

  I don't want to talk about them but [TS]

  there are situations where a preview is [TS]

  not sufficient a thumbnail preview [TS]

  dimensions all of which are not [TS]

  sufficient you can imagine things that [TS]

  Pixar does that may not be adequately [TS]

  represented are nicely representable as [TS]

  merely some dimensions in the thumbnail [TS]

  right because picsArt of stuff in 3d so [TS]

  just feel free to extrapolate from there [TS]

  and that's that's a user experience [TS]

  thing where you would just expect on the [TS]

  Mac or on a PC type operating system [TS]

  that the destination has access to the [TS]

  full set of data and can do whatever it [TS]

  wants with it and not just say give me a [TS]

  little placeholder because sometimes a [TS]

  placeholder especially if the [TS]

  placeholder just a thumbnail or [TS]

  something or a kilobits is not adequate [TS]

  and so I think Apple made the right [TS]

  decision for the environment because [TS]

  especially since it's so hard to ensure [TS]

  that you don't drag across something you [TS]

  know that you like because everything is [TS]

  you know it's a tiling window manager [TS]

  essentially there is no dead zone [TS]

  there's no demilitarized zone between [TS]

  the quote-unquote windows all right so I [TS]

  guess if you invoke the multitasking [TS]

  switcher you've got you're sort of out [TS]

  of dragging across things until you pull [TS]

  it back but maybe when you pull it to [TS]

  the front to maybe you know you're not [TS]

  hovering over the right side of the pane [TS]

  as it zooms and like it's it's difficult [TS]

  not to accidentally hover over something [TS]

  and I don't know if it's just iOS or [TS]

  just modern computing in general but iOS [TS]

  grew up in an environment where it is [TS]

  not it is not overly paranoid to think [TS]

  that applications will try to extract [TS]

  any piece of information they can [TS]

  because they can do stuff with it they [TS]

  can upload to a server they can analyze [TS]

  it they could figure out how to sell ads [TS]

  against your thing they can [TS]

  you know like that that is real stuff [TS]

  that happens so I have to protect [TS]

  against it and but after hearing these [TS]

  specific use cases I think there is [TS]

  there is a situation that Apple needs to [TS]

  address and I think the best way to [TS]

  address it is probably by you know the [TS]

  same thing with the app group stuff of [TS]

  like opening the floodgates between [TS]

  applications that that know each other [TS]

  right and I'm sure this use case beyond [TS]

  that was like all right well what about [TS]

  you know third-party company that wants [TS]

  to sell an application into professional [TS]

  environment and they're not the same [TS]

  company they want to share things so [TS]

  there needs to be some sort of secure [TS]

  way for applications even across [TS]

  companies to agree that it's okay that [TS]

  we show that we share each other's full [TS]

  data instead of doing a lot of this [TS]

  stuff but I mean this this is what [TS]

  software design is about that you know [TS]

  you make the best decision for everybody [TS]

  and then everybody who's who doesn't [TS]

  fall into that you know that 80% the the [TS]

  fat part of the bell curve sends you bug [TS]

  reports and you try to find some way to [TS]

  accommodate them so I don't know what [TS]

  the outcome of this conversation is [TS]

  other than I was fairly convinced that [TS]

  this is a legit use case and I think [TS]

  Apple was as well on it hopefully [TS]

  they'll do stuff to address it but I [TS]

  still think they made they made the [TS]

  right decision for the majority of users [TS]

  you know it's sort of safety first [TS]

  security first privacy first approach [TS]

  with many allowances to let you know [TS]

  your average application do something [TS]

  reasonable and then the more demanding [TS]

  applications have to find another [TS]

  solution [TS]

  anything else on drag-and-drop so [TS]

  there's a subsection here about dragging [TS]

  on a drag and drop on the phone this was [TS]

  all this is all older notes but it was [TS]

  like right after the key knows like wait [TS]

  does drag-and-drop work on the phone or [TS]

  does it work in the bay there's it's [TS]

  supposed to work or no there they're [TS]

  gonna intentionally make it not work [TS]

  because they don't want drag and drop [TS]

  could be on the phone I don't have iOS [TS]

  lovin on a phone so I don't know the [TS]

  current status is this mark oh do you [TS]

  have it yeah can you drag between [TS]

  anything on the phone can you drag [TS]

  between apps no you can drag within your [TS]

  own app though I'm not entirely sure why [TS]

  they impose this limitation like I can [TS]

  see why somebody might have argued for [TS]

  this but you know on the iPad you can [TS]

  drag and drop within an app and also [TS]

  between apps on the iPhone you can only [TS]

  drag and drop within an app however [TS]

  if you if the argument is the screen is [TS]

  too small and so you can expect people [TS]

  to like you know cram their fingers on [TS]

  or whatever that doesn't work because [TS]

  there's this awesome system that they [TS]

  built where you can you can you know [TS]

  pick up some items in a drag and then [TS]

  with another finger from an you know [TS]

  maybe from your other hand with another [TS]

  finger you can navigate the interface to [TS]

  a different screen and then drop the [TS]

  drag items somewhere else like not just [TS]

  within the same list or within the same [TS]

  screen but you can actually like go to [TS]

  like a different level in the navigation [TS]

  hierarchy and drop them there or you can [TS]

  drive them through the whole different [TS]

  app entirely and that's great that's an [TS]

  incredibly powerful system but if you're [TS]

  gonna allow navigation within an app to [TS]

  happen while you're in mid drag on the [TS]

  phone why not also allow you to kick out [TS]

  to a different app and along something [TS]

  else you know so the only thing I can [TS]

  think of is on the iPad you have the [TS]

  screen space to have two apps side by [TS]

  side or you know more than one app side [TS]

  by side so you have that ability on on [TS]

  the iPad and you don't have that in the [TS]

  iPhone and that's that's fine I think [TS]

  that makes sense given given the screen [TS]

  sizes in the in the app environment but [TS]

  I don't see why there's a limitation [TS]

  that you that you can't do it between [TS]

  apps by like holding down your dragged [TS]

  items on the phone and then hitting the [TS]

  home button and go into a different app [TS]

  and opening up a different apps like you [TS]

  already enabled it within the app so why [TS]

  not that yes Steve drone Smith [TS]

  responding some people offering them [TS]

  maybe it's because you know that the [TS]

  phone's not powerful enough where they [TS]

  want to save as an upsell feature for [TS]

  the next iPhone or whatever and from [TS]

  what he heard WWC is they just wanted to [TS]

  this to be an iPad only feature for now [TS]

  maybe it will come to the phone [TS]

  eventually a lot of by the way related [TS]

  to this both on the phone not on the [TS]

  iPad one of the things that kept coming [TS]

  up during the keynote and afterwards is [TS]

  the idea of a shelf which is a concept [TS]

  that pretty sure existed in next step [TS]

  but certainly they were there were like [TS]

  copycat products on the Mac they [TS]

  probably still are on the Mac these days [TS]

  it's just I think even Quicksilver has [TS]

  something like good it's a region of the [TS]

  screen like a shelf like a little [TS]

  rectangular area that comes out and it's [TS]

  like hey put stuff here and when you put [TS]

  things there does [TS]

  actually move them to there that is [TS]

  proxies like oh it's like if you start [TS]

  dragging something just put it on the [TS]

  shelf here and it's as if you continued [TS]

  the drag but you don't have to you just [TS]

  drop it on the shelf then you can go do [TS]

  whatever it is you want to do go find [TS]

  where you're gonna dress or we're going [TS]

  drop that drag thing then you open up [TS]

  the shelf again you're like all right [TS]

  take the thing back off the shelf and [TS]

  put it in so it's it's a multi-part drag [TS]

  operation with like a rest stop in [TS]

  between you could have multiple things [TS]

  on the shelf so you could but it's [TS]

  imagine it's like multiple clipboards [TS]

  there's lots of things in the current [TS]

  interface that are equivalent to that [TS]

  the tricky bit in iOS and maybe the [TS]

  reason that Bowl hasn't committed to [TS]

  anything like a shelf yet is where do [TS]

  you put the shelf how do you activate it [TS]

  do you want to hog the whole screen edge [TS]

  with it how do you get it to appear and [TS]

  disappear do you feel like you're [TS]

  burning are you burning parts of the [TS]

  interface of this now you use entire [TS]

  applications as a shelf you can make a [TS]

  shelf application and dock it on the [TS]

  right side of your thing and like this [TS]

  there's lots of ways you can work around [TS]

  this but all the demos in the keynotes [TS]

  and a lot of the stuff that I've seen [TS]

  online is people showing multi finger [TS]

  drags with the thing I think I referred [TS]

  to at the live show is that holding your [TS]

  breath operation where you begin doing a [TS]

  bunch of stuff and now you got stuff in [TS]

  flight like fingers are on the screen [TS]

  and maybe and basically you can't let go [TS]

  like you you're dragging stuff and you [TS]

  can't let go you haven't gotten to your [TS]

  destination yet you're getting there [TS]

  your other hand is navigating somehow [TS]

  you're you're doing this with one hand [TS]

  wrapped around your little phone or you [TS]

  have two hands on the phone it's resting [TS]

  it whatever those type of operations [TS]

  that's kind of the same reason that you [TS]

  guys don't remember this but that on the [TS]

  Mac originally the menubar worked like [TS]

  the thing at the top of screen you'd [TS]

  have to hold down the mouse button so [TS]

  you go up to the file menu you click and [TS]

  hold down the mouse button and you have [TS]

  to keep holding down the mouse button [TS]

  until you mouse over the menu item you [TS]

  wanted and you would release and that is [TS]

  like the the smallest version of a [TS]

  breath-holding maneuver because you did [TS]

  mouse down and you've had to keep [TS]

  holding it down while you looked around [TS]

  the menus you'd go to the next menu go [TS]

  down go into a submenu try to find the [TS]

  thing you want but you're holding the [TS]

  mouse button down this entire time which [TS]

  is a more difficult operation especially [TS]

  back [TS]

  Mack wasn't even knowing knew how to use [TS]

  a mouse it's a more difficult operation [TS]

  than you might think like okay hold down [TS]

  the mouse button but keep moving the [TS]

  mouse you know what but I have to I have [TS]

  to keep pressing the button so do I just [TS]

  rest my finger on it and press it into [TS]

  the table or do I push upward on them [TS]

  the table or do I push upward on them [TS]

  Allisyn things we take for granted now [TS]

  that it sounds crazy I mean the [TS]

  suggestiveness but believe me this was a [TS]

  manoeuvre that was difficult for people [TS]

  to do much more difficult for people to [TS]

  do than the equivalent which is what [TS]

  Windows did which is go to the file menu [TS]

  and click Mouse down mouse up no you [TS]

  know you'll have to hold anything down [TS]

  anymore the file menu will fall down and [TS]

  now you're free to navigate and the [TS]

  flipside of that and the windows roll [TS]

  okay well I did this click on the file [TS]

  menu and I decided I don't want anything [TS]

  in the phone on you but now the file [TS]

  menu was stuck down like how do I get [TS]

  rid of it I think you move your cursor [TS]

  around the other menus come down and you [TS]

  try to move your cursor off the end and [TS]

  it's like I just want to get rid of [TS]

  these menus how do I make them go away [TS]

  you can drill on your Mac now click the [TS]

  file menu and then just move your mouse [TS]

  around it and pretend you're a novice [TS]

  user it's like how the file menu is down [TS]

  I don't want it to go and then you hit [TS]

  the edit menu now the Edit menu is down [TS]

  your shake you have to find a safe place [TS]

  to click to deactivate it where is it [TS]

  with the old Mac's table when you hold [TS]

  down you just release the mouse button [TS]

  anywhere that's not on the menu item and [TS]

  you have canceled the operation [TS]

  eventually Apple came around to the [TS]

  Windows way of doing things because it's [TS]

  a list of a breath-holding maneuver you [TS]

  get to click and now you need to think [TS]

  find the menu item scroll around or [TS]

  whatever and eventually people learn the [TS]

  safe areas to click to deactivate the [TS]

  thing or whatever so on iOS all these [TS]

  drag operations you're just holding your [TS]

  breath that whole time until you can [TS]

  find a place to put these and worse this [TS]

  is my question after the Kuna and I [TS]

  still kind of have this question even [TS]

  though I do have I always love it on my [TS]

  iPad now is how do you safely cancel a [TS]

  complex drag operation you've got seven [TS]

  things in flight you're swiping around [TS]

  and you're like you change your mind [TS]

  you're like no never mind if I was in [TS]

  the Mac I would hit the Escape key which [TS]

  nobody knows because uh people aren't [TS]

  old-school Mac users and it would cancel [TS]

  the drag off I didn't know that but on [TS]

  in iOS I'm like what what do I do with [TS]

  all scrappy I've got in my hand I'm [TS]

  holding my breath I gotta get rid of [TS]

  this like a hangar and I gotta get rid [TS]

  of stuff safely I don't want to [TS]

  accidentally drag all this stuff into it [TS]

  so like you go off the screen edge maybe [TS]

  I mean there's a million places we know [TS]

  is you probably go to springboard it's [TS]

  probably safe you that's you're dragging [TS]

  applications in which case maybe you'll [TS]

  move them to there you can go to a thing [TS]

  they have different cursors of like [TS]

  canvas drag potentially [TS]

  happen in this location at all one of [TS]

  them is like the forbidden cursor which [TS]

  they tell you're not supposed to use but [TS]

  at least tells you like look you can't [TS]

  drag this here ever it's never gonna [TS]

  work don't bother like oh now it's safe [TS]

  to drop I can drop it there like they [TS]

  don't show demos like that but having [TS]

  having a safe way to change your mind [TS]

  mid-flight and also having a way to to [TS]

  think about what you're doing [TS]

  mid-flight without the pressure without [TS]

  the literal pressure of having to hold [TS]

  your fingers down on the screen or the [TS]

  mental pressure of knowing that you have [TS]

  this thing in flight those are problems [TS]

  that can potentially be solved by a [TS]

  shelf because then you have a two-part [TS]

  maneuver I'm gonna do something with [TS]

  this thing and this other thing chuck [TS]

  them on the shelf and now I'm free I'm [TS]

  not holding my breath animo I'm not [TS]

  holding my fingers on the screen I'm [TS]

  free to figure out what I'm gonna do [TS]

  with that stuff if I decide I'm not [TS]

  gonna do anything with it it's over like [TS]

  I can just leave it on the shelf it or I [TS]

  could delete it from the shelf or it has [TS]

  led to each other stuff or whatever but [TS]

  eventually do find the thing I want to [TS]

  do I can bring the Shelf back onto the [TS]

  screen take the thing off the shelf put [TS]

  it where I was going to put it so I [TS]

  think there's room for that type of [TS]

  interface element in iOS and I think a [TS]

  lot of these multi-finger drag things [TS]

  are cool to look at an impressive but [TS]

  are way above the the physical mental [TS]

  dexterity of most people most of the [TS]

  time and even people who can pull them [TS]

  off I think they are they're less [TS]

  comfortable than a more relaxed multi [TS]

  part operation the same way that holding [TS]

  down the mouse cursor on a menu is less [TS]

  comfortable for people on the original [TS]

  Mac and why we're all used to just [TS]

  single clicking if you want to get a [TS]

  feeling of this by the way just fire up [TS]

  an old Mac emulator everybody even [TS]

  old-school Mac users like me you fire up [TS]

  one of those old Mac emulators and you [TS]

  go to go to go to menu and you click on [TS]

  it and then you briefly flickers on the [TS]

  screen and you go oh yeah yeah I [TS]

  remember this or if you're not an [TS]

  old-school Mac user like this thing is [TS]

  broken and just quit so there was an app [TS]

  there was an app that I loved that is [TS]

  not being made anymore and I think there [TS]

  was like an API change or they got [TS]

  booted from Mac App Store I don't [TS]

  remember what it was it was called drag [TS]

  and drop that's dragon is in the animal [TS]

  dry [TS]

  and it was a play obviously on the [TS]

  phrase drag and drop yeah yeah funny huh [TS]

  anyway but it did was on the Mac if you [TS]

  start a drag and then wiggle your mouse [TS]

  the same way you wiggle your mouse to [TS]

  get the huge cursor in cearĂ¡ what it [TS]

  would do is it would pop up I'm sure [TS]

  there's a term for this kind of pain but [TS]

  whatever the term is it would bring up [TS]

  one of those like I don't know how to [TS]

  describe it but it's like a little [TS]

  temporary window basically and you could [TS]

  drag or you could drop I should say [TS]

  whatever you have in your in your drag [TS]

  onto this drag and drop pane and it [TS]

  would stay there then you couldn't you [TS]

  know mouse around and do whatever you [TS]

  needed maybe get to a different path on [TS]

  your on your desktop you know or you [TS]

  know and your harddrive whatever and [TS]

  then you could go back to drag and drop [TS]

  and drag out of that so it was basically [TS]

  a shelf like you were saying and dragged [TS]

  out of that and onto finder or what have [TS]

  you and it was amazing and it made the [TS]

  computer so much better and easier to [TS]

  use and maybe there's another equivalent [TS]

  of that and if there is that actually [TS]

  kind of like to know it but unlike 20 of [TS]

  those apps for the Mac the drag and [TS]

  drops innovation was the Wiggly cursor I [TS]

  think that was the first app that did [TS]

  that one [TS]

  most of them use screen edges like I [TS]

  said Quicksilver has one I'm sure yes [TS]

  cursor yeah oh you want the wheely [TS]

  cursor out of them here's a copy copy [TS]

  drag and drop but yeah I'm trying to [TS]

  think if the next shelf was the original [TS]

  one of these that I'm mostly coming from [TS]

  Mac world and even in classic Mac OS [TS]

  there was a ton of these things some of [TS]

  them are really good sorry I I love this [TS]

  thing and I also did know you could have [TS]

  some hit escape to cancel drag by the [TS]

  way and I you lived this long not [TS]

  knowing this part what are you doing yet [TS]

  to cancel a drag I never cancel a drag [TS]

  never cancel I've committed to this drag [TS]

  I'm seeing it's pretty good to the end I [TS]

  gotta find someplace to drop this thing [TS]

  damn it I know I'm doing Oh sick burn [TS]

  yeah let's go to the Mac you can only [TS]

  grab well you know I grabbed either one [TS]

  thing at once or multiple things all at [TS]

  once it is more difficult than most Mac [TS]

  programs do not allow you to do this to [TS]

  add to your drag well as an iOS that's [TS]

  all the demos look like I've gone into [TS]

  another app and you know what I'm gonna [TS]

  add more crap to this drag add add add [TS]

  I'm running out of fingers but it's okay [TS]

  you keep going oh one more thing on this [TS]

  since we got to have an AP FS section [TS]

  every shown out as my legal agreement [TS]

  with Apple another one of the things you [TS]

  know I keep brings up like why do I care [TS]

  about a BFS then snapshots everything [TS]

  last time dragging a large thing but [TS]

  there'd be a photo or a giant audio file [TS]

  or a video file or you know a 3d model [TS]

  or whatever from some iOS application to [TS]

  another one when you drop it and you've [TS]

  committed to have all the data appear [TS]

  over there sandboxing is still a thing [TS]

  in iOS and despite app groups and all [TS]

  the things with the data sharing or [TS]

  whatever especially if it's across [TS]

  applications from different vendors it [TS]

  has to get you all that data if this is [TS]

  a three gigabyte video file it can't [TS]

  just say oh you can just read that three [TS]

  gigabyte video file out of that other [TS]

  application sandbox because you can't [TS]

  that's the whole point of sandbox you [TS]

  can't get to that other application [TS]

  stuff but you also don't want to wait [TS]

  and like throw up a progress bar of like [TS]

  now copying three gigabytes of data from [TS]

  application eight application B which is [TS]

  what would happen on the Mac if you drag [TS]

  this huge thing someplace you know that [TS]

  in the Mac progress bars are everywhere [TS]

  you know everyone gets a progress bar [TS]

  it's it's part of thematic experience [TS]

  progress bars are less a part of the iOS [TS]

  experience massively less a part of the [TS]

  iOS experience the best forget our [TS]

  stupid little spinners in the App door [TS]

  store that never actually terminated but [TS]

  anyway those are circular those aren't [TS]

  progress bars those are progress of [TS]

  rings so the solution to this [TS]

  good old API FS to the rescue because [TS]

  drag and drop is only available in iOS [TS]

  11 and in the way that we're talking [TS]

  about and because iOS 11 comes with a [TS]

  PFS for everybody when you drag that [TS]

  three gigabyte video file from one [TS]

  application to another you get an [TS]

  instant clone of it in the other [TS]

  application sandbox it doesn't actually [TS]

  actually copy any data it doesn't matter [TS]

  how big it is that clone takes the exact [TS]

  same amount of time doesn't take it any [TS]

  more space on disk it's copying right so [TS]

  if that application starts modifying it [TS]

  it will start to become unshared I'm not [TS]

  gonna say the a BFS makes drag-and-drop [TS]

  possible but it almost makes Drive [TS]

  because if you didn't think of what you [TS]

  would have to do like what where would [TS]

  the progress bar everything appear what [TS]

  it would be [TS]

  at modal would it be like a progress bar [TS]

  just underneath a little thumbnail icon [TS]

  of the thing is it slowly copy 300 bytes [TS]

  it would be terrible ap FS is saving the [TS]

  universe once again Oh John although I [TS]

  kind of think it's enabling like it's [TS]

  enabling them not to think about Sam [TS]

  boxing like Sam boxing but then how we [TS]

  can have drag and drop between [TS]

  applications oh don't worry you don't [TS]

  have to rethink your sandboxing model [TS]

  notice me him instant clone I kind of [TS]

  wish they had to rethink their [TS]

  sandboxing model or have come up with [TS]

  some other sharing sirens they were [TS]

  saying it's alright everyone will have [TS]

  their own copy of this data in their own [TS]

  sandbox and we can make as many clones [TS]

  we want instantly so it's no problem [TS]

  right and I still think it actually is a [TS]

  problem we are sponsored this week by [TS]

  betterment investing made better go to [TS]

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  [Music] [TS]

  John tell me about dilled 3 it's not one [TS]

  of those sneaky things that Apple does [TS]

  every once in a while that maybe it's [TS]

  not sneaky maybe because people don't [TS]

  care about it used to write about them [TS]

  on my OS 10 reviews the canonical [TS]

  example is launch D where or actually [TS]

  more recently we've had discovery D lots [TS]

  of things at nd so does the wild e where [TS]

  their core parts of the mac brings us [TS]

  some sometimes the core parts of the [TS]

  underlying base operating system darwin [TS]

  is underneath you know iOS and mac OS [TS]

  you never hear that name anymore these [TS]

  days and apple will decide they need to [TS]

  rewrite it and that can be exciting but [TS]

  also scary discovery d last time that [TS]

  happened was a little bit scary because [TS]

  they what was the thing that was replace [TS]

  can't forget mdns responders yeah and so [TS]

  that was a problem because like [TS]

  endianness Runner was a mess and had [TS]

  tons of bugs but the thing they replaced [TS]

  it had more bugs and was even a bigger [TS]

  mess and so they wrote back that change [TS]

  but things like launch d where they [TS]

  replace the the process that spawns off [TS]

  all the other processes and duns it [TS]

  doesn't million other things rewrite [TS]

  that from scratch and replace the old [TS]

  init process that worked out pretty well [TS]

  did we ever find out whether it was bono [TS]

  that rescued us from rescuing us from [TS]

  discovery d remember they're like like [TS]

  with that well there was some celebrity [TS]

  complained of Tim Cook I think it was [TS]

  like I know like you know doesn't know [TS]

  how to use computers there was it was [TS]

  some big celebrity and like imagine like [TS]

  you know of all the like the world peace [TS]

  things that Bono has done but like also [TS]

  rescuing us from Discovery D that would [TS]

  that would rank pretty high up on that [TS]

  list John Mayer I'm trying to think [TS]

  maybe yeah it was something it was some [TS]

  celebrity that that allegedly complained [TS]

  to Tim Cook about this thing and got it [TS]

  faced like the next week [TS]

  well fixes in rolling rolling it back to [TS]

  whatever it was it was fixed yeah oh for [TS]

  some people so [TS]

  in the upcoming operating systems in [TS]

  high sierra and iOS 11 Apple's core OS [TS]

  group I'm assuming or some other people [TS]

  who work down in the guts of stuff have [TS]

  decided there's another part that needs [TS]

  to be replaced and that's the dynamic [TS]

  linker which is a thing you probably [TS]

  don't know about if you're not a [TS]

  programmer but it's the thing that [TS]

  figures out where all the other code [TS]

  that you're going to be calling into is [TS]

  and so you can call it from your [TS]

  application you can PI your applications [TS]

  that how to call this method in this [TS]

  framework here in this function in this [TS]

  library there and when you launch your [TS]

  application the operating system needs [TS]

  to connect all those dots because you [TS]

  know maybe that library has changed and [TS]

  these libraries aren't part of your [TS]

  application they're somewhere else in [TS]

  the system directory and the address of [TS]

  all the functions in them might be [TS]

  different from when you compile your [TS]

  application so this is dynamic linking [TS]

  it's not static linking where at the [TS]

  time they can build your application it [TS]

  knows where everything is and writes all [TS]

  that information it's dynamic linking it [TS]

  says I'm gonna call this function in [TS]

  this framework and you're gonna tell me [TS]

  where it is because it's gonna move [TS]

  around and there's also address based [TS]

  randomization a bunch of other stuff for [TS]

  security reasons which means is that [TS]

  dynamic linking really has to figure out [TS]

  where everything is the title of the [TS]

  relevant WWDC session is app startup [TS]

  time : past present and future which [TS]

  seems like it's very innocuous like oh [TS]

  I'm gonna learn how to make my app [TS]

  startup faster but surprise session 4:13 [TS]

  we will put the link in the show notes [TS]

  this session is really about how Apple [TS]

  is rewriting it in that dynamic linker [TS]

  again for the third time and as you [TS]

  might imagine the dynamic linker is a [TS]

  really really really important part of [TS]

  the system because if it's broken [TS]

  like nothing works because everything is [TS]

  dynamic linked to everything and it's [TS]

  super important it's kind of like when [TS]

  they change the compiler but worse [TS]

  because they compiler like they left the [TS]

  old compiler around and the new dynamic [TS]

  linker is gonna be used to link like [TS]

  everything in the operating system [TS]

  itself and probably eventually all your [TS]

  third-party applications so here's the [TS]

  the skinny on this the old version dy [TS]

  ld2 will be completely replaced but [TS]

  nudee way ld3 and it's not me have you [TS]

  heard this one before hopefully this [TS]

  will go well and not gonna be a repeat [TS]

  of this get ready situation it will be [TS]

  the default for all system apps and this [TS]

  is their phrasing for 2017 Apple OS [TS]

  platforms so I guess that means the [TS]

  watch the home pod the Apple TV the Mac [TS]

  and all iOS devices for system apps [TS]

  which means Apple's own applications or [TS]

  mean I guess third party applications [TS]

  will keep still be using dld 2.0 anyway [TS]

  the reason this session is called app [TS]

  start time past present future is [TS]

  because what they're pitching developers [TS]

  on is this will let your application [TS]

  launch faster and there's been a lot of [TS]

  WABC sessions about that and you might [TS]

  think this is like oh great my app is [TS]

  slow and startup this D way ld3 will [TS]

  make my app lunch faster well maybe but [TS]

  probably not because as the session says [TS]

  in the beginning to try to you know [TS]

  level set what they're talking about [TS]

  making startup time faster is everything [TS]

  that happens before they call main [TS]

  you're like well wait a second my code [TS]

  doesn't even start until they call main [TS]

  but you know if your application is slow [TS]

  on startup because you're doing a bunch [TS]

  of stuff in your code this will not help [TS]

  you because this all the time they're [TS]

  trying to remove is before main is [TS]

  called right you're like oh well nothing [TS]

  happens before you call main right it's [TS]

  not like the first thing that happens [TS]

  and from a dynamic language super second [TS]

  it's like no no no you think your [TS]

  program starts at main really we have to [TS]

  do a bunch of crap to find all your [TS]

  stuff before we can even call main and [TS]

  so this team is like we are everything [TS]

  that happens before developers think [TS]

  there is zero time before main is called [TS]

  but that is not true at all and so [TS]

  they're working in a much smaller level [TS]

  obviously in most non-trivial [TS]

  applications I would imagine the time [TS]

  required and you know after main is [TS]

  called and before like your application [TS]

  are usable Dwarfs all this time but for [TS]

  very small simple applications or system [TS]

  demons or stuff like that maybe not [TS]

  sorry I'm not gonna repeat everything [TS]

  that's in the presentation but the [TS]

  summary is that they are taking a [TS]

  dynamic linker and moving it out into a [TS]

  daemon process which might be terrifying [TS]

  to people like wait how can how can a [TS]

  clinker be a daemon process [TS]

  and as I don't like demon processes and [TS]

  D well the RTA ends in D which is [TS]

  convenient for them it's a call to dy LD [TS]

  d I don't know they tried to it's simple [TS]

  caching mechanism there's a bunch of [TS]

  stuff that has to happen before you call [TS]

  me and of like figuring out where all [TS]

  your stuff is and the addresses of [TS]

  everything and finding all the [TS]

  dependencies and stuff like that and [TS]

  doing symbol lookups that doesn't change [TS]

  unless the library has change and so [TS]

  they're gonna do all that in an external [TS]

  process and catch the results of it if [TS]

  someone subsequent launches they don't [TS]

  have to redo that they could say oh I've [TS]

  launched you before I know where all [TS]

  your crap is and so we can skip right to [TS]

  the part where we start doing stuff and [TS]

  executing and having it in a separate [TS]

  process even though it sounds terrifying [TS]

  like from a security perspective like oh [TS]

  that if you can hack that process you [TS]

  own the system it's actually better than [TS]

  having in the process because if you're [TS]

  gonna try to mess with dynamic linker a [TS]

  dynamic linker is running in the same [TS]

  process as you if you can corrupt that [TS]

  process you have access to all the stuff [TS]

  that I'm Ankur is doing because you were [TS]

  in the same process whereas if it's in [TS]

  an external process and a program is [TS]

  corrupted it's gonna have a harder time [TS]

  leaping across the barrier to a whole [TS]

  separate process that it hasn't yet [TS]

  corrupted I don't know we'll see how [TS]

  this works out security wise I can see [TS]

  the argument for it that it is harder to [TS]

  hack with things in a separate process [TS]

  than in your own process but on the [TS]

  other hand this is now a very attractive [TS]

  target for all sorts of hack so I'm sure [TS]

  they're doing a good job with it and [TS]

  they made a pitch from a development [TS]

  perspective of like developing this as a [TS]

  separate process makes it easier for [TS]

  them to test like it's not a bunch of [TS]

  code running inside a bunch of other [TS]

  people's applications right inside other [TS]

  people's memory spaces or who knows what [TS]

  the heck is going on it is a separate [TS]

  process and it's in its own memory space [TS]

  that other processes aren't messing with [TS]

  because of memory protection and that [TS]

  makes it more reproducible and reliable [TS]

  everything like that so I think this is [TS]

  a fascinating presentation one most [TS]

  people probably haven't watched session [TS]

  439 encourage everyone to watch [TS]

  everybody see videos are free for [TS]

  everybody you don't have to have [TS]

  developer account you can just click on [TS]

  the link in our show notes and watch it [TS]

  right away I think this stuff is super [TS]

  cool I love it when Apple replaces the [TS]

  guts of operating systems I hope they [TS]

  don't screw it up because this is super [TS]

  important and terrifying but I really [TS]

  like that they're doing [TS]

  yeah one of my favorite sessions this [TS]

  year so there are a few people in my [TS]

  life who are not programmers but listen [TS]

  to this show anyway and there are a [TS]

  number of people who write in and and [TS]

  comments that effect sometimes they are [TS]

  gonna love this chapter of the show I [TS]

  didn't go to that much detail but let's [TS]

  put it this way here for regular people [TS]

  like again with a PFS like why do I care [TS]

  this happening in theory things could [TS]

  launch faster on your Apple platforms in [TS]

  theory will that be perceptible to you I [TS]

  don't know maybe maybe not but anyway [TS]

  the other and the potential downside is [TS]

  everything is broking and nothing works [TS]

  so if that doesn't happen consider it a [TS]

  victory so you got a little bonus [TS]

  surprised at WDC Marco you also got a [TS]

  little bonus surprised at WWDC did you [TS]

  not I did last summer as I was writing [TS]

  my mp3 encoder I ran into an issue you [TS]

  know mp3 has had for a very very long [TS]

  time has had the option to have VBR or [TS]

  variable bitrate files the idea being [TS]

  that you know if different different [TS]

  parts of a file of like an audio track [TS]

  could have different complexity levels [TS]

  you know in a podcast all of the gaps [TS]

  that are between all the words that [TS]

  we're speaking that you don't need that [TS]

  many bits to encode what's mostly [TS]

  silence to a level that most people [TS]

  would not even notice right and then you [TS]

  can use more bits to encode complex [TS]

  passages like music and a variable [TS]

  bitrate file allows the encoder to just [TS]

  decide like you know for this for these [TS]

  few milliseconds I'm gonna use this [TS]

  bitrate and then for the next few [TS]

  milliseconds I'm gonna use a different [TS]

  bitrate and and so on and it's a much [TS]

  more efficient way to encode audio and [TS]

  the problem is that the mp3 format does [TS]

  not have great ways at least it did not [TS]

  start out having great ways to know [TS]

  ahead of time before you've read the [TS]

  entire file if you want to say jump to [TS]

  an hour and 10 seconds in what byte [TS]

  position is that if it's a constant [TS]

  bitrate file you can [TS]

  calculate well each second is this many [TS]

  bytes so therefore jump to you know [TS]

  offset times bytes per second and that's [TS]

  where you go if it's a VBR file you [TS]

  can't guarantee that because you don't [TS]

  know what the average bitrate is across [TS]

  the whole file and so in order to jump [TS]

  to a precise point you have to have some [TS]

  kind of lookup table or something to say [TS]

  you know for every second or for every [TS]

  half second or for every tenth of a [TS]

  second this is it's a byte position and [TS]

  maybe put that at the beginning of the [TS]

  file in the mid the metadata section or [TS]

  something and then you can jump to it [TS]

  and there were a few standards on how to [TS]

  do this but Apple supported none of them [TS]

  so if you would load a very long file [TS]

  like a podcast in something that was [TS]

  using an apple decoder which is every [TS]

  podcast player on iOS or Safari or at [TS]

  you know any pretty much anywhere on app [TS]

  on Apple platforms that could play an [TS]

  mp3 would have this problem you would [TS]

  jump ahead like if you were trying to [TS]

  seek and within that file you jump ahead [TS]

  and you would actually not be at the [TS]

  right point because it was it was not [TS]

  having any kind of intelligence about [TS]

  VBR filed and how to seek within them so [TS]

  it would just try to estimate based on [TS]

  file size and it would say well you know [TS]

  you you this file is you know 100 [TS]

  megabytes and it's I can read from the [TS]

  duration header upfront that it's two [TS]

  hours long and you told me to jump to [TS]

  one hour so I'm gonna jump to the 50 [TS]

  megabyte mark and just assume that's [TS]

  correct and that could be off by like [TS]

  two minutes or more like that that could [TS]

  be off by a lot depending on the content [TS]

  on the content of the file like how the [TS]

  variable bitrate stuff was allocated [TS]

  between different parts of it and so [TS]

  that's sucked so it basically meant that [TS]

  it was it was impractical for podcasts [TS]

  or a lot of any kind of long-form audio [TS]

  content to really ever use VBR encoding [TS]

  and I filed a bug report it's the best [TS]

  like a Dorota blog post to draw [TS]

  attention to it and heard nothing for a [TS]

  very long time well for a year and then [TS]

  in iOS 11 and in High Sierra that's [TS]

  fixed iOS 11 and High Sierra now [TS]

  properly seek VBR mp3s that have the [TS]

  seek tables at the beginning of them [TS]

  there are three different formats of [TS]

  those that I know that exist [TS]

  they support all three of them they [TS]

  prioritize is the highest part the [TS]

  highest precision one first which is the [TS]

  ML LTE id3 tag they prioritize that [TS]

  first forecast my encoder now writes [TS]

  those tags so now we will soon you know [TS]

  there's always gonna be issues the VBR [TS]

  files on like random like car head units [TS]

  and stuff and you know like things that [TS]

  aren't you know advanced computer [TS]

  platforms but it will soon become more [TS]

  reasonable like you know once iOS 11 and [TS]

  High Sierra are widespread it will [TS]

  become more reasonable for podcasters to [TS]

  potentially use VBR encoding on their [TS]

  mp3s and what this means for you the [TS]

  listeners is better sound quality for [TS]

  things like dropped in music like if we [TS]

  drop in a clip for music or if we play a [TS]

  theme song whatever like you will hear [TS]

  better quality on that and also you can [TS]

  maintain the same level of quality for [TS]

  the whole file for just basic speech [TS]

  like what we're doing now and have it [TS]

  take up like 25 to 50 percent less space [TS]

  and therefore also download faster use [TS]

  less battery while downloading you know [TS]

  less space burn on your phone etc so [TS]

  it's a pretty nice gain it's like a 25 [TS]

  to 50 percent gain depending on the [TS]

  content it's a pretty nice gain and you [TS]

  can get better quality for dropped in [TS]

  clips and stuff all because now Apple [TS]

  will seek this properly now again like [TS]

  there are gonna be non Apple platforms [TS]

  is gonna be ways in which like you know [TS]

  Android listeners for instance are kind [TS]

  of a problem for this so you know [TS]

  podcasters like us will have to decide [TS]

  like what percentage of our audience is [TS]

  on platforms that don't support proper [TS]

  VBR seeking and are we willing to let [TS]

  them live with miscalculated durations [TS]

  or miscalculated seek points as they [TS]

  seek throughout the file and so you know [TS]

  that that's gonna be a trade-off for you [TS]

  know any podcaster trim so I what format [TS]

  to encode their audio in but having it [TS]

  in the Apple platforms is by far the the [TS]

  biggest gain like it is like that's the [TS]

  big one we needed like overcast already [TS]

  supports it because I use Apple's [TS]

  decoder so like overcast already [TS]

  supports all this stuff iOS 11 and high [TS]

  sierra well I don't have a Mac App sorry [TS]

  Casey but if I'm able it [TS]

  support the High Sierra and and every [TS]

  other app that uses Apple's decoders [TS]

  which is as far as I know all of them I [TS]

  don't think any pond guys have some [TS]

  funnel they're on mp3 decoders so you [TS]

  know it's it [TS]

  this basically makes all I oh s apps [TS]

  suddenly support this without any [TS]

  changes whatsoever so that's really [TS]

  great I'm incredibly happy about this it [TS]

  might be a while you know it might be [TS]

  another year or two before we should [TS]

  practically use that but this is the [TS]

  start of that like this is this is the [TS]

  first step and that's really great [TS]

  spoiler alert [TS]

  audience Marco will make a VBR episode [TS]

  of A to B way before you think he's [TS]

  going to oh yeah definitely he's dying [TS]

  to do it the episode you're listening to [TS]

  right now might be VBR that's what I'm [TS]

  saying I wouldn't do during the the beta [TS]

  if I was sure he would you wouldn't tell [TS]

  anybody either I'll just be like you [TS]

  know what that last episode that was VBR [TS]

  you didn't even know it yeah notice how [TS]

  good the theme song sounded want to add [TS]

  more music clips like yeah explicably [TS]

  lots and lots of symbols and syncopated [TS]

  rhythms that trip up depression [TS]

  algorithms the funny thing is to Apple [TS]

  also added in very few places but they [TS]

  did add rudimentary support for the Opus [TS]

  audio codec also which is very [TS]

  interesting the open audio codec is kind [TS]

  of the successor to OGG Vorbis it's by [TS]

  the same people and it's it's this you [TS]

  know it's open source and as far as [TS]

  anybody knows patent free other that's [TS]

  you know that's that's always open to [TS]

  like whether it's really been challenged [TS]

  or not but it's a very good codec very [TS]

  advanced very modern it have in a very [TS]

  small number of places iOS 11 and high [TS]

  sierra support that now so if there [TS]

  might be a future in which mp3 might not [TS]

  be the most practical solution anymore [TS]

  it might become you know if everywhere [TS]

  support start supporting opus you know [TS]

  this is step one towards that [TS]

  possibility that's probably not gonna [TS]

  happen in reality you just you know it's [TS]

  probably always gonna be more practical [TS]

  to just ship mp3s because everything [TS]

  supports them but you know maybe in the [TS]

  future I get together with some other [TS]

  podcast app makers and we figure out [TS]

  like how to advertise multiple formats [TS]

  of the same show and if you're using a [TS]

  compatible client that maybe maybe it [TS]

  sends a [TS]

  etter that said that that lets it say to [TS]

  the downloading server you know what you [TS]

  can send me opus if you have it and [TS]

  maybe you know maybe publishers then can [TS]

  publish files that are automatically [TS]

  transferred to multiple formats or [TS]

  something you know if this would take a [TS]

  lot of a lot on the tooling side to make [TS]

  this to make anybody actually do this [TS]

  but this is this is the the start of [TS]

  making better quality podcasts that take [TS]

  up less space and I love that I remember [TS]

  having to make multiple video tags [TS]

  because with the whole was that a VC 1 [TS]

  or vp9 I forget the web of me would ya [TS]

  WebM and all that other stuff because [TS]

  they wouldn't do h.264 and so all my [TS]

  always 10 reviews I had to have multiple [TS]

  versions of every video so all devices [TS]

  could see them but but anyway that's [TS]

  from a current production perspective [TS]

  it's annoying but it is nice to be able [TS]

  to do a cascade and say here's seven [TS]

  versions of this thing and just you know [TS]

  browsers and between the browser and the [TS]

  server you figure out which one you want [TS]

  but I rank them like what kind of like [TS]

  Apple did with the algorithms for the [TS]

  VBR thing rank them and or from best to [TS]

  worst then you just go down the scale [TS]

  until you find the one that you can read [TS]

  thanks much for three sponsors this week [TS]

  betterment fracture and Harry's we will [TS]

  see you next week now the show is over [TS]

  they didn't even mean to begin as it was [TS]

  accidental accidental [TS]

  Marco and Casey wouldn't let him cuz it [TS]

  was accidentally was accidental and you [TS]

  can find the show notes at ADP CAS UIL [TS]

  is esta that's Casey list and a are Co [TS]

  AR m and T Marco Arment [TS]

  are [TS]

  [Music] [TS]

  so I was not entirely clear about why I [TS]

  had experience with a 20-17 laptop [TS]

  keyboard earlier Oh God [TS]

  I I lied I said I used it in a store I [TS]

  didn't use it in a store I use it in my [TS]

  house and yeah so so here's here's the [TS]

  situation [TS]

  oh and a week's vacation I know come on [TS]

  I'm trying to I'm trying to do the [TS]

  nineties references for you guys your [TS]

  generation [TS]

  so you know how I'm the chief summarizer [TS]

  in chief Marco is the chief justifier in [TS]

  chief yes what did you buy and how did [TS]

  you justify it my MacBook escaped as I [TS]

  mentioned it you know I need to send it [TS]

  and get the keyboard repairs that [TS]

  started me thinking like alright when's [TS]

  a good him to do this and everything [TS]

  else I'm going away for a week we also [TS]

  will be at the beach for a month later [TS]

  this summer I have sent a I have placed [TS]

  an LG 5k display at the at the beach [TS]

  house so I can work for a month because [TS]

  you know the summer time I record I work [TS]

  a lot in the summer because as an iOS [TS]

  developer you do make your upgrades [TS]

  using the new beta OS and new [TS]

  capabilities and everything and of [TS]

  course I'm still gonna be recording with [TS]

  you guys gonna be podcasting awhile [TS]

  there it's gonna be you know a work [TS]

  month for the most part is it but I work [TS]

  a lot during the summer would be a great [TS]

  title for this episode so my plan was to [TS]

  bring the MacBook Escape and connect it [TS]

  to the LG 5k and work on that all summer [TS]

  long wait on your on your LG 5k before [TS]

  you go on yeah do you did you get it [TS]

  replaced with the one that doesn't like [TS]

  this draw it doesn't flicker off when [TS]

  Wi-Fi is nearby cuz then they like fix [TS]

  that yeah as far as I know cuz I bought [TS]

  it on the very last day of the discount [TS]

  mm-hmm because we were we were starting [TS]

  to plan our summer and we were thinking [TS]

  we would probably you know do a whole [TS]

  month out there and so and I was like [TS]

  you know I should have some big monitor [TS]

  to plug into and on the very last day [TS]

  that discount before I even had the [TS]

  MacBook Escape I decided you know what [TS]

  I'm probably gonna do this you know and [TS]

  this was this was after they had like [TS]

  selling them to fix the problem so as [TS]

  far as I know mine design have the [TS]

  problem all right [TS]

  all right so anyway so this was my plan [TS]

  bring the escape up there and and just [TS]

  you know work of it work on that all [TS]

  summer long and I knew it would be [TS]

  slower than my iMac but fine you know [TS]

  it's it's still you know it's a [TS]

  compromised situation but you know I [TS]

  would deal with it because I love the [TS]

  escape in so many other ways then the [TS]

  escape keyboards are having problems [TS]

  then I went on to WTC and hated having [TS]

  only two USB ports as we discussed last [TS]

  episode like that that got in the way [TS]

  a lot and even now the keyboard is fixed [TS]

  on the new ones probably that is still [TS]

  the one thing that I can say I didn't [TS]

  like about the MacBook Escape overall in [TS]

  my use of it so far I really don't like [TS]

  having only those two ports which if [TS]

  you're powered is really only one port [TS]

  but that was that's not a big enough [TS]

  problem to make me dump it but I had [TS]

  this other problem now my iMac keeps [TS]

  having problems and these are problems [TS]

  that I don't think we're gonna get [TS]

  easily fixed my iMac is not only does it [TS]

  have the image retention that it's that [TS]

  I complained about months ago and and [TS]

  that's still getting worse and worse and [TS]

  worse [TS]

  I'm also getting what appear to be i/o [TS]

  stalls on a pretty regular basis my [TS]

  performance is actually getting [TS]

  noticeably worse I'm having weird pauses [TS]

  logic is giving me that wonderful disk [TS]

  disk too slow or system overload [TS]

  dialogue if you see a resume that I love [TS]

  it so much I've never seen that dialog [TS]

  before two months ago and I'm having [TS]

  problems with my iMac is what I'm saying [TS]

  now I really want either an iMac pro or [TS]

  probably a Mac Pro my plan has always [TS]

  been you know let me ride this iMac out [TS]

  the AppleCare on my iMac is up in a few [TS]

  months in October I think we know [TS]

  whenever or whatever three years after [TS]

  the 5k came out is which I think it's [TS]

  October [TS]

  let me just last till then and then I [TS]

  can like sell it and get the mi Pro you [TS]

  should make a run at to getting the [TS]

  screen takes like before your thing runs [TS]

  out just bring it in just be like look I [TS]

  have stalls on the screen has image [TS]

  trends and blah blah blah do something [TS]

  and who knows I'm going to but the thing [TS]

  is there's never a good time to do that [TS]

  like they [TS]

  there's never really or the beach for a [TS]

  month but but you can't like you can't [TS]

  have Apple send it back to you and have [TS]

  it sit in a store for a month I think I [TS]

  think that would be a problem you know [TS]

  so like that or likes it like on my [TS]

  porch for a month so basically I'm [TS]

  having problems it with my iMac but this [TS]

  is a terrible time for me to want to [TS]

  replace my desktop because I want to [TS]

  wait even if the iMac Pro ends up being [TS]

  for me what I should really do is wait [TS]

  for the Mac Pro to come out before I [TS]

  decide that just so I can see what the [TS]

  Mac Pro is and I can weigh those [TS]

  decisions equally and and whatever [TS]

  they're Pro display is etc I already [TS]

  have this LG display so my new plan is [TS]

  let me use a laptop full time with the [TS]

  LG display after vacation month this [TS]

  summer I'll bring the display home I [TS]

  will use it on my desk full time I will [TS]

  send in my iMac to get serviced the new [TS]

  laptop plus display will become my iMac [TS]

  you know effect it'll become like my [TS]

  desktop my main computer and that can [TS]

  bridge me over until the Mac Pro comes [TS]

  out presumably like probably about a [TS]

  year from now and then I can buy a new [TS]

  desktop with all the options available [TS]

  to me and decide then T de passe in the [TS]

  chat room has a good suggestion for you [TS]

  it sounds like what you need is a Mac [TS]

  subscription service and Apple just [TS]

  sends you every computer it makes just [TS]

  all with all of them whenever they have [TS]

  a new computer you they just send them [TS]

  to you and you just you just keep paying [TS]

  the subscription and the ones you don't [TS]

  like you return and it's like blue apron [TS]

  if you want to cancel a Mac you don't [TS]

  want the back to have to come this month [TS]

  that's fine and if you don't like one of [TS]

  the Macs you have you just send it back [TS]

  to them they send you a different one [TS]

  that they actually have leasing for [TS]

  business customers and I am a business [TS]

  customer at my local store so they [TS]

  actually started offering me the leasing [TS]

  option which is not that different from [TS]

  that the only reason I didn't take it [TS]

  was that it's not that great of a deal [TS]

  like it's like it's it's it's a two-year [TS]

  it's you know two or three years fixed [TS]

  of course you know because of the lease [TS]

  and it's like a fixed time scale and I [TS]

  don't love having my computer purchases [TS]

  be tied to a fixed time scale like I [TS]

  care less of a car [TS]

  that's like a big deal to change and you [TS]

  know when new minor revisions come out I [TS]

  don't really care but like to have to [TS]

  tie a laptop to a two-year schedule that [TS]

  that that can't be slower or faster than [TS]

  that that I don't like that much and [TS]

  also the way it was priced is you get a [TS]

  pretty nice discount for doing the least [TS]

  like if you add up all the payments you [TS]

  end up paying something like 20% less [TS]

  than the retail price but then at the [TS]

  end you have nothing on that like you're [TS]

  not paying it off at the end you can buy [TS]

  it out for fair market value at the time [TS]

  but you're basically paying 80% of the [TS]

  retail price over two years to at the [TS]

  end have nothing whereas if you just buy [TS]

  it and then sell it later [TS]

  you might only lose twenty to fifty [TS]

  percent instead of 80% and you can sell [TS]

  whenever you want to so you got these [TS]

  these sticky keys and you had your image [TS]

  retention yeah your IO stalls we're [TS]

  having a lot of problems the computer [TS]

  reliability if you're interested in a [TS]

  couple years I may have a very reliable [TS]

  computer market if you're interested [TS]

  this this is a proven track record I can [TS]

  give you all the repair history totally [TS]

  solid [TS]

  everything works you know one owner only [TS]

  drove it to church on Sundays it's great [TS]

  I've never been in an accident but it's [TS]

  been full of browser tabs the whole time [TS]

  yeah so basically I did have a chance to [TS]

  use the LG display we went we went to [TS]

  the to the beach couple of weeks ago or [TS]

  days ago whenever it was and and I tried [TS]

  to do some stuff on it with the MacBook [TS]

  Escape and the GPU and the Escape is [TS]

  really not great at fairly basic [TS]

  operations on a 5k display and in all [TS]

  fairness that's not what it's made to do [TS]

  that like that's a hefty GPU load to put [TS]

  on an intel integrated GPU there's a [TS]

  reason why like Apple does not really [TS]

  advertise much with like the 13-inch [TS]

  class of laptops on the big 5k display [TS]

  they always show with a 15-inch because [TS]

  the 15-inch has a discrete GPU which is [TS]

  way more powerful than the Intel one and [TS]

  when you plug your 15-inch into just [TS]

  into a display [TS]

  the discrete GPU locks itself on like it [TS]

  always uses that it forces it on if it's [TS]

  ever kind to an external display because [TS]

  it knows like you kind of need that so [TS]

  the MacBook escape while awesome for [TS]

  everything I needed before now with this [TS]

  summer need that I need to have a nice [TS]

  big monitor and do big development in [TS]

  the open sometime I now have a need that [TS]

  it does not cover very well it really is [TS]

  quite poor at it actually like even if [TS]

  things like resizing windows is like a [TS]

  sluggish like that's because it isn't [TS]

  made to be doing that I decided now that [TS]

  my needs now that my iMac has caused me [TS]

  to have different needs and I now need a [TS]

  desktop replacement to last me a year [TS]

  until the Mac Pro comes out presumably I [TS]

  need something powerful so I got a 15 [TS]

  inch again [TS]

  I got a 20-17 almost maxed out 15 inch [TS]

  and I see how this goes I mean I'm sure [TS]

  I'm still the return period business [TS]

  represent I can return however I want [TS]

  this yeah he's a big pile in his office [TS]

  it just says Marco well technically I [TS]

  feel like this is oh I have a 15 inch [TS]

  again but you don't you have the 2017 [TS]

  keyboard that will make all the [TS]

  difference I'm sure honestly it does [TS]

  feel dramatically better but I don't [TS]

  know yet how reliable it is like I I got [TS]

  fairly accustomed to the MacBook Escape [TS]

  keyboard like I didn't you know I still [TS]

  don't love the butterfly keys but I got [TS]

  used to it enough that I could operate [TS]

  but I can't operate when the keys fail [TS]

  so that's I hope they have fixed that [TS]

  I'll tell you because how know there's [TS]

  not a lot of grit in the beach house so [TS]

  you'll be fine [TS]

  nice I mean I don't use it in the sand [TS]

  but yeah there's a you know what they [TS]

  say about sand [TS]

  what neither one kind of correction you [TS]

  two don't know if that's fine there's [TS]

  one time I'm glad you didn't get a [TS]

  reference mmm anyway so yes I know this [TS]

  is totally ridiculous yes I know this is [TS]

  completely wasteful but you know my [TS]

  requirements changed well it's not [TS]

  wasteful I thought you're throwing these [TS]

  computers in the garbage like you're [TS]

  turning or selling them so other people [TS]

  are getting use of them yeah and and and [TS]

  you know when they're this new like the [TS]

  resale is not too bad it's a shame [TS]

  because I really do love everything else [TS]

  about the escape and and in the future [TS]

  you know once once my desktop situation [TS]

  settles back down again once I get a Mac [TS]

  Pro probably or an iMac Pro next year it [TS]

  wouldn't surprise me if whatever laptop [TS]

  I buy next after that I might then go [TS]

  back to the escape form factor because I [TS]

  really do like it as a travel laptop but [TS]

  it is not what I want for a like desktop [TS]

  replacement you know I want more power [TS]

  for that you're gonna get an adorable [TS]

  you're gonna get a two-port adorable [TS]

  you'll see if that exists maybe but I [TS]

  really do like the escape over the [TS]

  adorable honestly it the adorable I find [TS]

  a little bit too small to comfortably [TS]

  use in my lap like the way it sits on my [TS]

  legs like I need a little bit more width [TS]

  and and the 13 inch line offers that so [TS]

  I'm a big fan of a 13 inch size overall [TS]

  I think it really is I think for for [TS]

  almost everybody the 13-inch is the [TS]

  right choice it is really great and it [TS]

  is a wonderful balance I will say though [TS]

  another I've used the escape for you [TS]

  know three months or whatever whatever [TS]

  it's been the 15 days looks like an [TS]

  aircraft carrier by comparison so big [TS]

  now I mean Casey from even worse for you [TS]

  right because you're like bouncing [TS]

  between the the adorable and the old 50 [TS]

  nation well right so I've got the [TS]

  adorable that I used from Wednesday [TS]

  through Sunday when I was in Chicago [TS]

  then I came home to the 27-inch iMac and [TS]

  then I needed to do something specific [TS]

  for work so I got out the 15 and the [TS]

  iMac is a little different because it's [TS]

  kind of an it's like an external display [TS]

  I so to speak and that it's it's it just [TS]

  occupies a different part of my brain [TS]

  you know it's like oh that's a [TS]

  a desktop but holy smokes when I grab [TS]

  that 15-inch looked enormous an aircraft [TS]

  carriers a perfect description and I li [TS]

  remember having handled 17-inch [TS]

  computers back when they were yeah those [TS]

  were I kind I kind of want to just use [TS]

  the adorable for a while and then have [TS]

  somebody hand me a 17-inch and I I would [TS]

  I can't imagine what it was what it [TS]

  would be like because the 15 just looked [TS]

  obscenely large and I'd had 15s four [TS]

  years before the adorable probably six [TS]

  or so years by now and godly it just [TS]

  looked massive I've got a Mac portable [TS]

  if you're interested how do you feel [TS]

  about a 16 pound portable Macintosh with [TS]

  a lead-acid battery somehow I think [TS]

  that's gonna have trouble driving the 5k [TS]

  display active-matrix [TS]

  LCD display that's the thing I can't [TS]

  communicate to you youngsters adequately [TS]

  like the the idea that back in the day [TS]

  every Mac had something amazing about [TS]

  even this giant disgusting portable [TS]

  computer and an active-matrix LCD [TS]

  display and all of the like that typical [TS]

  PC laptops had passive-matrix screens [TS]

  and I don't know if you remember what [TS]

  those were like awful you know [TS]

  ghosting like you'd you would move the [TS]

  cursor remove a windows and you would [TS]

  see like 17 ghost images of the things [TS]

  was terrible active-matrix [TS]

  yeah yeah transistor behind every pixel [TS]

  and you can move your cursor and the [TS]

  cursor would actually move and it was [TS]

  like it was like a portable a flat [TS]

  screen can't do that because everyone [TS]

  knows what a flat screen looks like it [TS]

  says ghosty mess [TS]

  and yes it was monochrome I think yeah I [TS]

  think the first backwards my room but [TS]

  active-matrix it was like well first [TS]

  it's like it was it was the promotion of [TS]

  its day it was the 120 Hertz of its day [TS]

  it's like well once you see active [TS]

  matrix you can't go back my dad had a [TS]

  had a think pad and I don't remember the [TS]

  model number but it was black and white [TS]

  or well I should say it's grayscale it [TS]

  was grayscale and and I remember running [TS]

  Wolfenstein 3d on it and it was [TS]

  unplayable because of all the ghosting [TS]

  it was ridiculous however I believe at [TS]

  dads house right now is an IBM PC [TS]

  convertible in John you don't know [TS]

  anything about these because you didn't [TS]

  believe in pcs so let me tell [TS]

  about old hardware John the PC [TS]

  convertible came out in the early 90s [TS]

  and it had two low-density [TS]

  three-and-a-half inch drives as a matter [TS]

  of fact according to Wikipedia it was [TS]

  the first IBM computer to use the three [TS]

  and a half inch floppy disk format which [TS]

  went on to become the industry standard [TS]

  you're welcome John anyway it was a [TS]

  complete piece of garbage anyway it [TS]

  wasn't IBM that made it the industry [TS]

  standard it was Apple mm-hmm [TS]

  it weighed 13 pounds according to [TS]

  Wikipedia and it was an amazing machine [TS]

  and I loved it and it's a total piece of [TS]

  garbage if I'm really honest with you [TS]

  but it's worse than the Mac portable [TS]

  we're just saying something yeah [TS]

  so the if you look at the image in Wow [TS]

  and you close so imagine you close the [TS]

  lid if you look at the very front of the [TS]

  keyboard you see how there's like a grey [TS]

  bar going across the front and the side [TS]

  of the it's a handle you know that's [TS]

  being okay so yeah the thing would slide [TS]

  out is you grabbed it and you can carry [TS]

  this 13 I mean granted I am NOT the [TS]

  strongest man in the world but I I [TS]

  actually saw this thing than the last [TS]

  year dad's and and I picked it up I'm [TS]

  just like oh god this thing is heavy [TS]

  like it is uncomfortably heavy at [TS]

  apparently 13 pounds which for those of [TS]

  you who believe in units that make sense [TS]

  that's almost 6 kilograms lighter than [TS]

  the the Mac portable by almost an entire [TS]

  15 inch like the the current 15 inch is [TS]

  very light it's only 4 pounds but it's [TS]

  about the weight of the previous 13-inch [TS]

  models of the of the old retina [TS]

  generation and and so it really is very [TS]

  light it's just large it has a big [TS]

  footprint so it feels like you're waving [TS]

  around a lunch tray you know but you [TS]

  know I do like a lot of that like if if [TS]

  you're if you want a really powerful [TS]

  laptop that's a great one to have and [TS]

  that's far the best one to have and it [TS]

  really you know all my complaints about [TS]

  battery life aside and I haven't had [TS]

  time to test this one really yet I [TS]

  haven't really used my battery yet it's [TS]

  only a few days old but the form factor [TS]

  of this current 15-inch is really [TS]

  remarkable because [TS]

  if you put it in a bag you know it's [TS]

  like you it's like all the previous 13s [TS]

  like it you it doesn't feel any heavier [TS]

  than that but you have the power and [TS]

  massive screen size relatively of the [TS]

  15-inch so it's a great computer and it [TS]

  wasn't for me before but my requirements [TS]

  changed dramatically so and that's [TS]

  that's why I have it now ok save [TS]

  something that you're a convertible PC [TS]

  can't do and didn't do which is it Auto [TS]

  eject a floppy disk in space in space in [TS]

  space like it no gravity you mean well [TS]

  this gravity but you're falling on the [TS]

  earth [TS]

  it's called orbit anyway if you brought [TS]

  to a geostationary orbit satellite can [TS]

  you reject yeah Auto inject and eject [TS]

  drives on the max we're we're great but [TS]

  this is a the word for that [TS]

  auto-injectors is the feature yet [TS]

  another feature that made apple [TS]

  computers superior to pcs for I love you [TS]

  John but but you being smug about old [TS]

  have Apple hardware auto auto inject and [TS]

  eject will never die will never get old [TS]

  it they will live forever did though [TS]

  they will live forever no cuz the floppy [TS]

  disk so just went away I mean on the [TS]

  other hand like you know you look at [TS]

  this IBM monstrosity like you think you [TS]

  know what's better than a laptop with a [TS]

  floppy drive a laptop with two floppy [TS]

  drives well there was no our tribe what [TS]

  are you gonna do you had you know one [TS]

  floppy for like Das or whatever and then [TS]

  the other floppy for actually doing so [TS]

  it wasn't enough room in a 13 pound [TS]

  package for them to fit the hard your [TS]

  snarking but there wasn't [TS]

  Welbeck portable had a 40 megabyte hard [TS]

  drive so there you go 40 megabytes it [TS]

  was also forced at $14,000 in 2016 money [TS]

  by the way [TS]