The Accidental Tech Podcast

224: Yearning for Reflection


  this is the show that will not end kuba [TS]

  boga Jewett's kuba said that apple used [TS]

  to have many edits of one original this [TS]

  is within the context of photos apps [TS]

  aperture had it and called it versions [TS]

  you could have many versions of one [TS]

  master and it worked this is with regard [TS]

  to what john was asking for last episode [TS]

  the nice reminder reminder of what we've [TS]

  lost you know for people who are in the [TS]

  Apple ecosystem and remember the days [TS]

  when Apple had a pro video a pro photo [TS]

  editing app and then one day they didn't [TS]

  anymore and Lightroom is great and you [TS]

  can get it in it's by Adobe and it's [TS]

  good that there's competition in that [TS]

  market but very often I forget that [TS]

  aperture even existed if you had [TS]

  reminded me that aperture existed I [TS]

  probably would have remembered this [TS]

  multi-version things because I did try [TS]

  aperture a few times especially when [TS]

  they got like that where I used to share [TS]

  its library with iPhoto in some weird [TS]

  way that never really worked quite right [TS]

  you know I kind of missed that I wish [TS]

  that stuff would come I wish I thought [TS]

  of stuff we'll come back to photos and [TS]

  if you run out of iPhoto stuff to steal [TS]

  you can bring stuff from aperture like [TS]

  it's all in the family they've got that [TS]

  source code that those people are still [TS]

  there somewhere right all right and then [TS]

  an anonymous person wrote in and said I [TS]

  was speaking with an Apple Mac OS [TS]

  engineer when they said they will or [TS]

  have been making better versions of the [TS]

  new macbook pro keyboard and using them [TS]

  in newly produced units without any [TS]

  public acknowledgement or change of [TS]

  model number by implication Apple will [TS]

  also be using these refined keyboards in [TS]

  any MacBook Pro keyboards they said that [TS]

  this refinement of component designs is [TS]

  very common and they said that it is [TS]

  often good to wait a few months after [TS]

  new product is released so that you can [TS]

  get the revised versions of any [TS]

  components that fact that were found to [TS]

  have had issues after all why do they [TS]

  all have to prove John right I like the [TS]

  idea of them uh you know modifying the [TS]

  product but not changing the the model [TS]

  number like just that just to add an [TS]

  error mystery kind of like oh these are [TS]

  the good ones yeah I know I know it's [TS]

  exactly the same part it looks exactly [TS]

  the same of the model number is the same [TS]

  but these the good ones we learned so [TS]

  much about about assembling the old ones [TS]

  to the degree you know put magic special [TS]

  dust in it like I mean they do it you do [TS]

  refine your manufacturing process like [TS]

  you refine the assembly you could even [TS]

  refine some of the [TS]

  the materials for the pieces you could [TS]

  source them from different places this [TS]

  happens the manufacturer of any remotely [TS]

  complicated good and I imagine you don't [TS]

  always change the model number but as a [TS]

  consumer this this is like telling us [TS]

  what we want to hear like if you buy [TS]

  later they're better like I always [TS]

  believe that voodoo too and you know it [TS]

  was good to like wait a little bit even [TS]

  if only from like the the old-style [TS]

  American car battle days of American car [TS]

  manufacturing where you don't buy the [TS]

  cars that were assembled on a Friday [TS]

  because the workers don't care that much [TS]

  and they just want to go off of the [TS]

  weekend right and so they don't do a [TS]

  good job assembling your car the idea [TS]

  that after after some company has been [TS]

  building a thing for some period of time [TS]

  every part of the process of building it [TS]

  becomes refined and the people slash [TS]

  machine slash whatever get better at [TS]

  building the thing even if every single [TS]

  part of it is the same and so you kind [TS]

  of don't want like the very first [TS]

  PlayStation 4 off the assembly line [TS]

  maybe you want the 7,000 or 100,000 [TS]

  versus the first three but all those are [TS]

  things that is kind of like modern-day [TS]

  folk tales I tell myself to make myself [TS]

  feel better about delaying purchases for [TS]

  a small amount of time it's kind of the [TS]

  opposite of Margot's folk tales that he [TS]

  tells himself to make himself feel [TS]

  better about buying things immediately [TS]

  but we all have heard that make us feel [TS]

  the biggest feel good about our [TS]

  decisions honestly I I would like to [TS]

  believe this uh but I just I just don't [TS]

  know and by the way in my defense the [TS]

  MacBook Escape came out in October I [TS]

  bought it in March oh look at you [TS]

  waiting six months which one the first [TS]

  one of the second one because you didn't [TS]

  buy it before you did order it before it [TS]

  even was shipping to anybody if I recall [TS]

  yes that's true [TS]

  but the one I actually oh what I didn't [TS]

  cancel that I let deliver to me the [TS]

  MacBook escaped I ordered it in March [TS]

  well that's good because the one you got [TS]

  they've totally sorted out those sticky [TS]

  keyboard situation mmm this anonymous [TS]

  person would say Oh Marco got the last [TS]

  bad one but now they're using all these [TS]

  refine ones that have the same model [TS]

  number mm-hmm we respond to this week by [TS]

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  investing made better ah let's start the [TS]

  show proper let's do what we really need [TS]

  to do let's do what we've been waiting [TS]

  on for several months now let's talk [TS]

  about software methodologies Marco why [TS]

  don't you start [TS]

  I believe in fully test-driven agile [TS]

  stand-up parking-lot element oh god stop [TS]

  okay so let's talk about WDC so for some [TS]

  reason you don't know what we're talking [TS]

  about WTC is well by developer [TS]

  conference it is happening next week as [TS]

  we record this in San Jose California [TS]

  first time that any of us have been to [TS]

  San Jose for dub-dub it did happen there [TS]

  back in the days before anyone really [TS]

  cared about Apple don't write me uh but [TS]

  now we're coming back to San Jose it's [TS]

  going to be new experience for all of us [TS]

  and there's a lot to talk about there's [TS]

  a lot of stuff going on and there's been [TS]

  surprisingly little chatter about what's [TS]

  forthcoming and I bet you if you were to [TS]

  listen to past episodes I bet you I've [TS]

  said that the last several years but man [TS]

  sitting here now the way I remember the [TS]

  chatter leading up to Iowa's ten Iowa's [TS]

  at nine and eight and seven I feel like [TS]

  we knew a lot more about what was going [TS]

  into those releases than we do what's [TS]

  going into iOS well what presumably will [TS]

  be iOS 11 do you guys feel the same way [TS]

  yeah I mean especially because I mean [TS]

  first of all is a little bit weird like [TS]

  we've heard a lot of kind of like weak [TS]

  second tier rumors but very little of [TS]

  much credibility or or of much certainty [TS]

  and it seems like you know and and the [TS]

  rumors are so spread out and relatively [TS]

  diverse in their nature like it isn't [TS]

  like all about one product or all about [TS]

  one thing that it's looking like it's [TS]

  going to be a pretty potentially pretty [TS]

  big WDC but that nobody can really say [TS]

  for sure exactly why which is kind of [TS]

  interesting yeah it's kind of fun that [TS]

  way like we have a whole bunch of things [TS]

  that we've heard might happen or [TS]

  supposed to or intend to do happen maybe [TS]

  but but I don't but really nothing like [TS]

  nothing that's concrete as a lot of [TS]

  previous leaks and reports have been we [TS]

  can make it up in volume like it right [TS]

  there's no like big spearhead like the [TS]

  one big thing everyone's looking for and [TS]

  then the ancillary thinks it's just a [TS]

  bunch of other things it kind of reminds [TS]

  me well maybe this maybe I miss [TS]

  remembering what was it iOS 8 the year [TS]

  iOS 8 was announced they now saw all [TS]

  those features that we thought would [TS]

  never come to iOS and there was you know [TS]

  no one of them was a you know the thing [TS]

  that we all held up but just the fact [TS]

  that there were so many things in iOS 8 [TS]

  that I was so desperately needed and [TS]

  they all came that it would gave you [TS]

  gave you the satisfaction of sort of you [TS]

  know being overwhelmed that with the [TS]

  sheer number of things that I've always [TS]

  doing to improve its product and we [TS]

  would all like that right but the [TS]

  problem with these big laundry lists [TS]

  where there's no one thing that's just a [TS]

  bunch of other stuff is it's not all [TS]

  going to be there like we've heard [TS]

  rumors of everything they can't possibly [TS]

  all be there so there's going to be some [TS]

  disappointments mixed in depending on [TS]

  what what you care about the most mixed [TS]

  in with the other stuff so let's go [TS]

  through this somebody has done a little [TS]

  bit of preparation in the show notes and [TS]

  since I don't know who it is and it [TS]

  couldn't possibly have been Marco that [TS]

  my process of elimination means it must [TS]

  have been John who shouldn't be doing [TS]

  any prep [TS]

  research ahem budget night you never [TS]

  notice I fill this document before every [TS]

  single show you think elves do that [TS]

  yes but yeah yes I did I thought it was [TS]

  Keebler elves when they were done baking [TS]

  out but anyway you should now honor my [TS]

  my organization here because what I have [TS]

  written as the the heading for the [TS]

  section that we're getting into here is [TS]

  says WWC hopes in dreams because as [TS]

  marco pointed out the rumors are all [TS]

  kind of wishy-washy like they'll [TS]

  probably do some iOS stuff man like all [TS]

  right yeah okay I'm not I'm not that [TS]

  interested in predictions because if [TS]

  there's one big thing we be like are [TS]

  they gonna introduce the hoverboards or [TS]

  not it's been super heavily rumor let's [TS]

  talk about the hoverboards right instead [TS]

  I feel like it's what do what do we want [TS]

  or what do we think Apple should do in [TS]

  each of these areas and obviously we'll [TS]

  talk about predictions in terms of [TS]

  handicapping them how they go but I feel [TS]

  ill-equipped this year to offer any kind [TS]

  of prediction about what will be [TS]

  announced at WWC but I feel reasonably [TS]

  well equipped to talk about what I would [TS]

  like to see and then secondarily what I [TS]

  think Apple should do and then like I [TS]

  said inevitably will say well could they [TS]

  possibly do this all right so we're [TS]

  going to start and we're going to go [TS]

  through software and then we'll go [TS]

  through hardware and then we'll go [TS]

  through I don't know kind of [TS]

  miscellaneous stuff [TS]

  can I offer an opening statement well [TS]

  since you seem eager to then please [TS]

  proceed on the ones ready for the [TS]

  incomparable no it's way too intimating [TS]

  basically I slightly disagree with with [TS]

  the hopes and dreams angle of this I [TS]

  have I have kind of prepared my [TS]

  expectations to be things that I would [TS]

  like to happen but that I also think [TS]

  will happen things that are realistic [TS]

  that are plausible that fit within [TS]

  Apple's you know recent hopes and dreams [TS]

  fits within that I'm not saying like you [TS]

  want a hoverboard or you want them to [TS]

  roll the car out on the stage and do it [TS]

  donut I mean like we're all gonna be [TS]

  within the realm of reason here I think [TS]

  that that was implied if that wasn't [TS]

  clear right and I do think before we get [TS]

  into specifics I would say the general [TS]

  trend I expect this year you know what [TS]

  I'm pretty sure will happen like [TS]

  overarching themes the most powerful [TS]

  messages that are being delivered [TS]

  I think it's we're going to have a very [TS]

  heavy [TS]

  focus on Siri first and foremost and [TS]

  it's going to take all sorts of [TS]

  different forms which we'll get to down [TS]

  the road but heavy focus on Siri also [TS]

  have you focused on iPad productivity [TS]

  and kind of integrated with that iCloud [TS]

  Drive and then I think secondarily we'll [TS]

  see things like you know the iOS you [TS]

  know potential redesign [TS]

  I think the Mac is going to be you know [TS]

  kind of mid-range priority and then [TS]

  relatively quiet years for watch OS and [TS]

  TV OS but really heavy focus everywhere [TS]

  on Siri in number one and then kind of [TS]

  iPad productivity and iCloud Drive like [TS]

  kind of number two so you're predicting [TS]

  that but since there isn't just talking [TS]

  about overall theme do you also hope for [TS]

  that and secondarily do you think that's [TS]

  what Apple should be focusing on well it [TS]

  depends I mean you know this is not only [TS]

  is this like you know here's all the [TS]

  cool stuff that we've made this year but [TS]

  you know like every Apple event and like [TS]

  every Apple launch there is a certain [TS]

  degree of marketing strategy that goes [TS]

  into how they present things what they [TS]

  even present at all you know what they [TS]

  name things how things are structured [TS]

  and I think Apple is facing a very very [TS]

  strong competitive force right now on [TS]

  the voice assistant front from both [TS]

  Google and Amazon and maybe even [TS]

  Microsoft that you know Siri has been [TS]

  criticized for being behind most of it [TS]

  rightfully so in various areas here also [TS]

  you know Apple doesn't yet have a like a [TS]

  Siri cylinder slash standalone speaker [TS]

  thing and we'll get to that because [TS]

  that's rumored to possibly be announced [TS]

  this this week or next week I guess [TS]

  so that might happen but anyway it just [TS]

  seems like Siri is an area in which kind [TS]

  of the the current trend of the text [TS]

  fear that Apple operates in this is like [TS]

  the hot thing to be working on is to [TS]

  have really awesome voice assistant [TS]

  stuff and Apple is widely perceived [TS]

  mostly fairly as being behind in that [TS]

  area so I expect this to be kind of like [TS]

  the way last year Apple was perceived to [TS]

  be behind in machine learning [TS]

  AI big data kind of problems and so last [TS]

  year you heard them say machine learning [TS]

  like a billion times [TS]

  named everything machine learning they [TS]

  bragged about how awesome that machine [TS]

  learning was it was a hugely driven home [TS]

  talking point and it was everything was [TS]

  kind of marketed around their version of [TS]

  saying we are doing machine learning in [TS]

  this awesome way and here's here's why [TS]

  and here's how we're doing it and look [TS]

  at it look at all the machine learning [TS]

  we're doing similarly I that's what I [TS]

  think Syria is going to be this year [TS]

  it's going to be like the overall theme [TS]

  of basically everything being called [TS]

  Siri just like last year where [TS]

  everything was cooperation learning you [TS]

  know everything's going to be named Siri [TS]

  even features that aren't necessarily [TS]

  what we think of a Siri today so like [TS]

  like maybe maybe spotlight we've renamed [TS]

  to Siri maybe search in mail or messages [TS]

  we renamed to Siri you know who knows [TS]

  like there could be a lot of angles to [TS]

  this I actually think it's possible that [TS]

  homekit will be renamed to Siri so you [TS]

  would just say things like this light [TS]

  switch works with Siri you know like I [TS]

  think that's a there's a big chance of [TS]

  stuff like this happening that Siri is [TS]

  what Apple is going to be beating us [TS]

  over the head with this year this is [TS]

  going to be like the talking point theme [TS]

  of the year and they're going to be all [TS]

  about how awesome Siri is how far [TS]

  they've come and how incredibly more [TS]

  advanced it is and everything else out [TS]

  there I think they're going to be [TS]

  throwing machine learning at us some [TS]

  more I don't think machine learnings day [TS]

  and the Sun is over like in addition [TS]

  Siri like oh here's the thing about the [TS]

  Siri focus that you know it's getting at [TS]

  with like this is something you want to [TS]

  see and do something you think they [TS]

  should do well so by saying they're [TS]

  behind and I agree or they're both [TS]

  perceived to be behind it actually are a [TS]

  little behind in a lot of these areas [TS]

  it's something they should do if they're [TS]

  actually concerned with keeping up with [TS]

  the Joneses very many times in history [TS]

  Apple seems totally unconcerned with [TS]

  doing the same thing as other come as [TS]

  its competitors are doing in this [TS]

  situation because Apple was pretty early [TS]

  out of the gate was Syria like it's not [TS]

  like they just didn't touch this area at [TS]

  all they're in it like they they're in [TS]

  that market of like smart assistant [TS]

  thing that you talk to and they were in [TS]

  it very early and they have a brand and [TS]

  so on and so forth so I think it's a [TS]

  situation where they can't say Oh apples [TS]

  not interested in that art market like [TS]

  or will enter it when we think there's [TS]

  something there already they're right [TS]

  there just behind so if they can if they [TS]

  can have a CFO 'kiss I think it is [TS]

  something they should and if they can [TS]

  means do they have the api's and new [TS]

  you know software things to do do they [TS]

  have Syrian a tube or you know like you [TS]

  have to have something behind it you [TS]

  can't just sort of float on oh we've [TS]

  made Syria a little bit better here some [TS]

  demos you have to have something you [TS]

  have to new API is WWC new ways for apps [TS]

  to integrate it a new product would be [TS]

  awesome right and rebranding you know [TS]

  I'm not sure they're going to ditch home [TS]

  kit in that way and I don't think they [TS]

  care enough about the Mac to rebrand any [TS]

  part of it to both Siri I mean you know [TS]

  Snapple Mac OS just got Syria recently [TS]

  it's like be happy for a couple years [TS]

  Mac OS will pay attention to you later [TS]

  okay yeah I think it is I think it is [TS]

  something they should do and I and I [TS]

  think it's also something that I would [TS]

  want to see them do because I like you [TS]

  know we always except for Casey the the [TS]

  hold out have cylinders in our houses [TS]

  that we talked to and I still [TS]

  occasionally talk to Siri on my phone [TS]

  and other things like that and I would [TS]

  love for Siri to get better and I would [TS]

  love for there to be other products and [TS]

  other api's that incorporate Siri like I [TS]

  said last show I would like to talk to [TS]

  overcast and have it play things for me [TS]

  so that kind of Siri can integration [TS]

  with that kind of intent would be great [TS]

  as well [TS]

  so that theme you know and again this is [TS]

  not we haven't delved into the specifics [TS]

  we're just saying broadly speaking iOS [TS]

  Mac OS hardware software Siri machine [TS]

  learning that type of thing it's maybe [TS]

  not my biggest hope well you know it [TS]

  hopes and dreams for it but it is [TS]

  plausible it is the thing I think they [TS]

  should do and I hope they do do it so we [TS]

  will actually finish the series segment [TS]

  now is that like I think how are you [TS]

  getting away with this John usually [TS]

  stops we don't follow the show because [TS]

  he he framed it correctly as abroad it [TS]

  cuts across all these things we're not [TS]

  talking about just iOS or just Mac OS or [TS]

  just hardware just new products it is an [TS]

  overall theme he framed it well his [TS]

  opening statement the overall theme of [TS]

  the show if you come away you know and [TS]

  it is kind of a prediction but I brought [TS]

  it back to is something you hope for and [TS]

  is it something that you think they [TS]

  should do so since I sort of have the [TS]

  mic now I will say that Siri does not do [TS]

  much for me either way it doesn't [TS]

  actively make me angry terribly often [TS]

  although that certainly happens and it [TS]

  doesn't actively help my day terribly [TS]

  often although that also certainly [TS]

  happens so right now I'm pretty [TS]

  uninterested in all of this that being [TS]

  said [TS]

  if history tells me anything any time I [TS]

  tell you that I am completely [TS]

  underwhelmed and uninterested in in [TS]

  something which may or may not also meet [TS]

  be me being nonplussed about something [TS]

  depending on who you ask I always end up [TS]

  becoming the world's biggest fan for [TS]

  example would you wait one moment while [TS]

  I check the time on my beloved Apple [TS]

  watch so we'll see what happens if they [TS]

  do release a Syrian a canister but [TS]

  sitting here now I just don't care [TS]

  not a bit so let's talk about the Syrian [TS]

  a canister because this is very heavily [TS]

  rumored it it really does seem like not [TS]

  only is this a real product but this [TS]

  really might be announced next week that [TS]

  that is what the current you know most [TS]

  common rumors are saying so first of all [TS]

  I think let's assume for the sake of [TS]

  this discussion let's assume that the [TS]

  that this thing is real I'm going to [TS]

  call it the Siri speaker for now because [TS]

  like I don't even know is going to be [TS]

  cylindrical shape you know like if it's [TS]

  going to have a screen a cylinder [TS]

  doesn't only make a lot of sense so it [TS]

  might not be cylindrical who knows so [TS]

  I'll call it the Siri speaker although I [TS]

  do think there's actually a small chance [TS]

  but kind of a long shot that it might be [TS]

  beats branded but I think probably I [TS]

  think Siri is the stronger brand for [TS]

  them and they're going to want to [TS]

  they're going to want to you know use [TS]

  that here or at least that's the one [TS]

  that they want to drive more so first of [TS]

  all the way I picture this project if [TS]

  you think about if you think through [TS]

  like how would you do things like [TS]

  configure apps on it what kind of apps [TS]

  would there even be on it how would you [TS]

  set it up what would manage it the way [TS]

  that the Amazon family of products does [TS]

  this is there is an there is a leading [TS]

  the tube named app on your phone it's [TS]

  not that different from Apple's watch [TS]

  app on the iPhone so it's like the [TS]

  companion app for the hardware product [TS]

  which means this Harvard product would [TS]

  need to be paired with an iPhone that's [TS]

  what I think Apple is going to do with [TS]

  this product I suspect that it's going [TS]

  to be like there's going to be a Serie A [TS]

  p-- much like the Amazon lady named app [TS]

  and this will be like the centralized [TS]

  control panel and I do think this is [TS]

  kind of going to be iOS in general if [TS]

  you're going to be able to access the [TS]

  Siri a p-- for other things as well like [TS]

  that could be a centralized control [TS]

  panel for homekit devices which might be [TS]

  security devices any kind of [TS]

  integrations apps etc I expect that to [TS]

  also then be you know just like the [TS]

  watch app is for the watch [TS]

  that'll be how you manage apps and [TS]

  configuration in advanced configuration [TS]

  of the Siri speaker device because if [TS]

  you if you have like a small you know [TS]

  it's probably like a small OLED screen [TS]

  on there it probably will be a touch [TS]

  screen and everything but it's probably [TS]

  going to be too small and not that great [TS]

  for things like a full keyboard I don't [TS]

  think it's going to be that size screen [TS]

  probably gonna be more like small status [TS]

  displays maybe for things like timers [TS]

  and maybe room for a few buttons like a [TS]

  few big touch targets on screen but not [TS]

  like you know probably bigger than a [TS]

  watch but smaller than a phone what [TS]

  makes you think it'll have a screen at [TS]

  all have you read more recent rumors [TS]

  than I have no but but most of the [TS]

  rumors have said it will have a screen [TS]

  so I'm inclined to believe that it will [TS]

  I also having used the Amazon cylinders [TS]

  without screens for all this time I do [TS]

  think it would be nicer with a screen [TS]

  for some basic tasks there's still [TS]

  there's still like you know the the the [TS]

  primary interface will still be voice [TS]

  but it's nice to have a screen as a [TS]

  secondary information output device or [TS]

  an ambient information output device so [TS]

  for things like watching a timer [TS]

  countdown or displaying the weather all [TS]

  the time or things like that it's nice [TS]

  to have a screen for things like that I [TS]

  don't know if they're going to go [TS]

  full-blown like video screen for video [TS]

  calls the way Amazon has I don't know [TS]

  about that because that that whole idea [TS]

  kind of makes not that much sense to me [TS]

  it's kind of ungraceful and I don't know [TS]

  I'm not sure I see Apple even though [TS]

  they already have like FaceTime and [TS]

  everything I'm not sure I see them doing [TS]

  the video call market with this device [TS]

  because they already have in all their [TS]

  other devices but anyway I do suspect [TS]

  that they're going to have an iPhone [TS]

  companion app named Siri that will [TS]

  encompass all this stuff probably even [TS]

  replace what is now called the home app [TS]

  that abuse with the new home app now [TS]

  it's called Siri and it comes all the [TS]

  stuff and it lets you manage your Siri [TS]

  cylinder I expect the series cylinder to [TS]

  be primarily sold on privacy screen [TS]

  itself and you know [TS]

  it will be the first screened one of [TS]

  these things to market probably or at [TS]

  least it'll be close to Amazon's that's [TS]

  coming at the end of this month [TS]

  I also expect Apple to push sound [TS]

  quality hard you know Apple still has [TS]

  big foothold in music and they have a [TS]

  lot of people there who care about music [TS]

  and frankly it wouldn't be that hard to [TS]

  sound better than the echo so I expect [TS]

  them to push sound quality hard it is [TS]

  totally possible to sound good in a [TS]

  small enclosure and I know that because [TS]

  I have a Sonos play:1 speaker right next [TS]

  to my echo that I hardly ever use [TS]

  anymore because it's so much less [TS]

  convenient but the play one is almost [TS]

  the same size as the echo and it sounds [TS]

  way better it's not even close and so I [TS]

  know Apple would have the expertise to [TS]

  develop something really good sounding [TS]

  in that size class if they want to and [TS]

  they probably do want to that could be a [TS]

  great selling point I would also suggest [TS]

  that this is also Apple and this is also [TS]

  Tim Cook's Apple so there is almost no [TS]

  chance it's going to be just one of [TS]

  these it's probably going to be like you [TS]

  know at the Amazon one with the screen [TS]

  is like 230 bucks something like that [TS]

  I'm guessing the cheapest one you can [TS]

  buy from Apple is 300 maybe even more [TS]

  and that that's not going to be the one [TS]

  anybody wants to buy that there's going [TS]

  to be upsell models maybe they'll be [TS]

  like different materials different [TS]

  colors probably they're going to be [TS]

  things like bigger or differently SPECT [TS]

  speakers you know like and that's what [TS]

  Sonos does they have like the small ones [TS]

  medium big ones and the big ones are [TS]

  really expensive [TS]

  maybe they'll even go as far as to have [TS]

  different storage tiers like the Apple [TS]

  TV but that was kind of my comedy option [TS]

  I don't actually believe they're going [TS]

  to do that I hope they don't because the [TS]

  actual storage tiers on the actual Apple [TS]

  TV are a comedy option that make no [TS]

  sense so I hope they've learned and I [TS]

  hope they don't do that here but I'm [TS]

  guessing like roughly 300 bucks for a [TS]

  base model but the one you're going to [TS]

  actually want is going to be more than [TS]

  that for some premium reason probably [TS]

  better speakers or something like that [TS]

  and then otherwise I think you know this [TS]

  you know if it if it runs it would make [TS]

  sense for to run apps and the way they [TS]

  would probably do that is very similar [TS]

  to how the watch is doing it so the iOS [TS]

  app would be the post slash container [TS]

  and it would have a special extension [TS]

  that runs on the Siri speaker and that [TS]

  the companion app would manage that [TS]

  relationship for you if you wanted to [TS]

  install or delete them but that it would [TS]

  be an iOS extension that is not running [TS]

  on the phone it's running on the speaker [TS]

  but it's managed by the parent app on [TS]

  the phone and by the companion app and [TS]

  then my other my only other kind of long [TS]

  shot on this obviously going to heavily [TS]

  push Apple music and music gonna be is [TS]

  gonna be I think one of the biggest [TS]

  selling points of this thing I think [TS]

  long shot number two besides the beats [TS]

  brand is that they might even pull a [TS]

  Sonos and attack them head-on and do [TS]

  multi-room audio from day one which [TS]

  currently Amazon doesn't do it all yet I [TS]

  know Google announced they were going to [TS]

  but have they actually shipped that yet [TS]

  I don't have the famoust idea John [TS]

  you're that you're in charge of Google [TS]

  home on this show I have one of them I [TS]

  would I know [TS]

  I'll get a second one on the answered a [TS]

  question all right but so yeah III think [TS]

  it would be really cool if Apple did [TS]

  Sonos multi-room audio now that I've had [TS]

  a Sonu system for a couple of years I do [TS]

  really enjoy that like it's really nice [TS]

  to have speakers in multiple rooms of [TS]

  your house so like when you're doing [TS]

  things around the house you can have the [TS]

  same music playing and all them it's [TS]

  really nice and the main reason I don't [TS]

  use that anymore is because it's so much [TS]

  more convenient to have everything voice [TS]

  controlled so if Apple can combine those [TS]

  things Amazon I'm kind of surprised they [TS]

  haven't but they haven't so if Apple can [TS]

  be the first one to combine those things [TS]

  and if they're going to have a heavy [TS]

  music focus and if they're going to have [TS]

  good speakers in these things to begin [TS]

  with that could be a really strong [TS]

  competitive advantage because they're [TS]

  probably not going to be as strong with [TS]

  like the voice accuracy or the [TS]

  reliability or the speed or the [TS]

  third-party integrations so they can try [TS]

  to get advantages in other areas where [TS]

  Apple is strong so things like physical [TS]

  design the UI the thing is sound quality [TS]

  multi-room audio you know major music [TS]

  integration that's where I expect Apple [TS]

  to go with this you have such a specific [TS]

  vision of this entire ecosystem of [TS]

  products and as you think you have [TS]

  inside information that we don't have I [TS]

  think I do a lot of specifics that's a [TS]

  lot of specific no but I don't wait what [TS]

  I basically did was I started writing [TS]

  out the this note of like what I expect [TS]

  this thing might be [TS]

  and I started thinking about okay well [TS]

  it does it run apps you know if it runs [TS]

  apps have word is that where the apps [TS]

  come from and it was it once you're [TS]

  thinking through like oh how how might [TS]

  they do this yeah now that every every [TS]

  one of those things sounds like yep [TS]

  that's exactly the way they would do it [TS]

  if they were doing that but what I have [TS]

  trouble with is you just listed up if [TS]

  they were to catch up with everybody on [TS]

  all fronts at once this is how they do [TS]

  it and I agree like I don't know I'm [TS]

  pessimistic that they are going to do [TS]

  that like and and what I'm thinking of [TS]

  as all things you described it's like [TS]

  okay you're not going to get all this [TS]

  stuff with the first product it's going [TS]

  to concentrate on one area or another so [TS]

  for example one angle could be again if [TS]

  this thing is even announced WWC [TS]

  multi-room audio no screen series [TS]

  speaker right that alone seems like a [TS]

  version of one product from Apple like [TS]

  none of the other things you mentioned [TS]

  are there there's no screen there's no [TS]

  apps there's no you know home kit [TS]

  central home hub thing there's no you [TS]

  know it's just is just Siri speaker you [TS]

  can talk to it and it's multi-room audio [TS]

  and that's it and they're expensive in [TS]

  this two of them right I'm on board with [TS]

  that or it could be a home hub thing but [TS]

  then no multi-room audio but just like [TS]

  one good speaker and the thing or it [TS]

  could be a little app platform thing [TS]

  that isn't a speaker but that you know [TS]

  it's like I have trouble making myself [TS]

  believe that today's Apple is going to [TS]

  come out of the gate with something so [TS]

  comprehensive well if they did like I [TS]

  agree with you that if they if they did [TS]

  attack on all those fronts that's [TS]

  probably how they would attack on every [TS]

  single one of those fronts because there [TS]

  is based on you know something they've [TS]

  done before technology they already have [TS]

  things they're already good at and [TS]

  enhancements to things that that you [TS]

  know obviously that were obviously [TS]

  assuming enhancements to Siri to go [TS]

  along with this to make it more capable [TS]

  just in general right well but what I'm [TS]

  describing is a a smaller scale than the [TS]

  first version of the Apple watch and [TS]

  it's way easier to make because this big [TS]

  chunky thing the Apple watch was so [TS]

  incredibly hyped and rumored that it was [TS]

  like them you know and it just the Apple [TS]

  watch came out and it did do all those [TS]

  things all at once but the lead up to it [TS]

  matched that like it was not I mean they [TS]

  were they they built that whole [TS]

  temporary thing and had this giant [TS]

  special event for it and we all knew it [TS]

  was coming it was just like and what is [TS]

  it going to be is it going to be a [TS]

  holographic wrist thing that floats [TS]

  under like it was just it was added [TS]

  control right and they did do a really [TS]

  good [TS]

  job on it and you know they figured out [TS]

  the software eventually - but the series [TS]

  stuff is like I wonder if Apple whatever [TS]

  have a tube thing man maybe oh here [TS]

  might be WABC maybe have screen maybe [TS]

  won't probably speaker cool like it's [TS]

  getting back to like the scope of like [TS]

  Apple can make a really good Bluetooth [TS]

  speaker as I think I said a couple of [TS]

  shows ago it's like yeah they could if [TS]

  they felt like it right and you're like [TS]

  no Apple can dominate this home market [TS]

  by doing everything super awesome way [TS]

  and just charging us twice as much well [TS]

  no I didn't say that I didn't say that [TS]

  because there are going to be major [TS]

  areas of the that Apple's not gonna be [TS]

  competitive on because it's all based on [TS]

  Siri and there are major areas this [TS]

  serious and competitive on things like [TS]

  speed reliability and certain levels of [TS]

  intelligence Wow again like the [TS]

  underlying premise is that the this [TS]

  comes along with a new and improved [TS]

  version of Siri like the Siri and this [TS]

  tube is better than Siri in all of the [TS]

  places it's interesting question of [TS]

  whether say they even do that oh I don't [TS]

  believe that at all I think it's gonna [TS]

  be exactly the same Siri you think so I [TS]

  mean it's the very least I would hope [TS]

  that it would hear me better than the [TS]

  microphones in a watch or in the phone [TS]

  just because they've got more room for [TS]

  more microphones right well it might but [TS]

  honestly I don't have much problem with [TS]

  Siri hearing me properly like the words [TS]

  that I say are usually transcribed very [TS]

  accurately it's what they do afterwards [TS]

  that's that's usually probably yeah I [TS]

  have some trouble with activations but [TS]

  yeah but like on the Siri tube speaker [TS]

  screen whatever thing I'm currently [TS]

  filing this in the category of a thing [TS]

  that I totally believe Apple has worked [TS]

  on and may still be working on but that [TS]

  I would not shock me if there was no [TS]

  dedicated Siri related hardware announce [TS]

  at WWDC so I'm not I'm not pinning my [TS]

  hopes on this being at WWDC even if it's [TS]

  a thing they're working on even if they [TS]

  are going to ship it later I don't know [TS]

  like just think of the Apple TV that [TS]

  Miss WWC remember when that happened [TS]

  like the new Apple TV and they were [TS]

  gonna have it for everybody and it just [TS]

  it didn't quite make it right so this [TS]

  I'm putting in that this in that bin [TS]

  right now which would be a shame but [TS]

  looking down the list of the rest of the [TS]

  things I still feel like they would have [TS]

  enough stuff to make a good keynote [TS]

  without any serious stuff and if they [TS]

  did have it like would they save it for [TS]

  the end is that is that the biggest [TS]

  announcement that they save towards the [TS]

  you know the end slot where the good [TS]

  stuff comes like they obviously like [TS]

  lead with like watch OS and Mac OS [TS]

  updates then build up to the stuff that [TS]

  we really care about right and this is [TS]

  the last thing I you know I guess we'll [TS]

  find out but anyway that's how I feel [TS]

  about this eerie thing in terms of [TS]

  predictions that durable that it will be [TS]

  more constrained than all the things [TS]

  that Marco listed and that I would not [TS]

  be shocked if it didn't appear and I'm [TS]

  not gonna and I wouldn't and honestly if [TS]

  everything else comes out you know [TS]

  everything else has reasonably good [TS]

  announcements of fulfilling some of my [TS]

  hopes and dreams I'll be okay with that [TS]

  we are sponsored this week by jet go to [TS]

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  tried this out and and I gotta say I was [TS]

  very very impressed I thought they would [TS]

  you know maybe not have some really [TS]

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  had everything I searched for I was [TS]

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  there's no annual membership fee to get [TS]

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  and conditions do apply sea jet comm for [TS]

  details thank you very much to Jett for [TS]

  sponsoring our show all right so I'm [TS]

  sorry boss what are we doing LS iOS [TS]

  because we're going for the biggest I [TS]

  feel like now please mark I wanted to go [TS]

  right for the desert and talk about the [TS]

  Siri which is like you know the new [TS]

  hardware new product category like the [TS]

  most probably the most exciting thing [TS]

  that could be announced at WWC you know [TS]

  inducing a new product category that [TS]

  Apple was in him before thing this thing [TS]

  that rarely happens we did that one and [TS]

  I feel like iOS is the next biggest [TS]

  possible announcement because there's a [TS]

  lot of a lot of rumors and ideas around [TS]

  iOS not just improving its capabilities [TS]

  improving capabilities of the iPad and [TS]

  you know adding features that people [TS]

  have wanted and like getting back on the [TS]

  bandwagon of advancing iOS but also the [TS]

  possibility that the major foundational [TS]

  interface paradigms in iOS could be [TS]

  rethought like particularly about how [TS]

  how application is deal with files and [TS]

  drag and drop which dragon drop is like [TS]

  not at all and files is in in in a way [TS]

  that is not like the old way where there [TS]

  was no access to the file system but is [TS]

  kind of this awkward middle ground so [TS]

  there's a lot of rumors surrounding that [TS]

  and again when we say file system we [TS]

  don't mean like the literal file system [TS]

  which is a PFS now yay but like in terms [TS]

  of file management there's a lot of [TS]

  rumors about that and any and all of [TS]

  those things are significant for iOS and [TS]

  most of it I feel like is focused on [TS]

  sort of the high end of iOS the devices [TS]

  that are big and fast and have a lot of [TS]

  memory not so much on your phones like [TS]

  what is this going to do about your [TS]

  phones more about like hey I've got this [TS]

  big powerful 12.5 inch iPad pro with the [TS]

  stylus but multitasking hasn't changed [TS]

  much in many years and there's no [TS]

  drag-and-drop and dealing with files is [TS]

  still kind of a pain [TS]

  and for many years that have been [TS]

  reversed about that being rejiggered but [TS]

  this certainly seems like the year when [TS]

  the announcement kind of like ios8 where [TS]

  the announcements for iOS will be things [TS]

  that have been a long time coming that [TS]

  are super impressive that people look at [TS]

  and say eh this is going to change how I [TS]

  use my iOS device in a positive way and [TS]

  developers are gonna say be I can't wait [TS]

  to add support for that from my [TS]

  application which is a perfect fit for [TS]

  WWC iOS is the glory OS and they can [TS]

  start adding it for lack of a better [TS]

  word Pro features to iOS the crowd [TS]

  beloved developers were level useable of [TS]

  it yeah I don't know what to make of all [TS]

  that I was asked by a friend of the show [TS]

  Stephen Hackett to do a piece for his [TS]

  members newsletter and so I wrote a [TS]

  piece that I'll eventually post on my [TS]

  website but probably not for a few weeks [TS]

  um about why I think that the iOS the [TS]

  iOS gee-gees the iPad is not for me [TS]

  anymore and since I just made this [TS]

  public declaration that the iPad is not [TS]

  for me anymore [TS]

  I expect that whatever is done at WDC [TS]

  this year will make me go crawling [TS]

  directly back to the iPad and tell [TS]

  everyone about how I never doubted the [TS]

  iPad and the iPad has always been the [TS]

  thing for me but I think it's obvious [TS]

  that this is going to be a year that's [TS]

  heavy on iPad I think I think it's [TS]

  possible that Federico vtg smile may not [TS]

  fit through the doors on the way out of [TS]

  the keynote which to be a truth be told [TS]

  is a good thing um I I don't dislike the [TS]

  iPad I just feel like I'm neutered or [TS]

  not neutered maybe but handcuffed is [TS]

  better word for it handcuffed by it and [TS]

  and so if if a lot of the pain points [TS]

  that I have when using the iPad went [TS]

  away that would be really great but to [TS]

  come back to the a sensible point of all [TS]

  this which is hopes and dreams [TS]

  I do hope and dream for a better Siri a [TS]

  P I I think it would be somewhat useful [TS]

  for what I do at my day job but I think [TS]

  it would be super useful for things like [TS]

  overcast there's been many times that [TS]

  I've wanted to say you know hey dingus [TS]

  play [TS]

  I don't know fatal error in in overcast [TS]

  or something like that or you know hey [TS]

  dingus played Dubai [TS]

  Friday and overcast and and having the [TS]

  ability to do that would be really [TS]

  really awesome I'm a little disappointed [TS]

  that Swift is open source in that as far [TS]

  as I know a lot of the things that I [TS]

  want from Swift aren't happening because [TS]

  if they were happening I would know them [TS]

  because open source and so I'm hopeful [TS]

  that maybe some stuff has been happening [TS]

  behind the scenes that is Swift specific [TS]

  I've been yearning for reflection I've [TS]

  been yearning for async/await [TS]

  there's a bunch of other things that [TS]

  I've wanted that I can't think of off [TS]

  top my head but I every indication is [TS]

  that I'm not getting any of those things [TS]

  because if I was I would know about it [TS]

  because open source however that being [TS]

  said you know any improvements tax code [TS]

  to make writing Swift a little better to [TS]

  make using Swift a little better would [TS]

  be great and I think I know that's [TS]

  tangentially related to iOS but that [TS]

  varies what are you tangentially I would [TS]

  say you know I rang you in but I will [TS]

  allow you to make the bold prediction [TS]

  that there will be a new version of [TS]

  Xcode that's at WWDC no no but I mean I [TS]

  want to see like as an example they [TS]

  added I forget the official term for the [TS]

  feature but like the memory graph [TS]

  visualizer and they added you know the [TS]

  reveal clone which is also excellent and [TS]

  those are great but that's that's that [TS]

  sort of a change is not what I'm looking [TS]

  for what I'm looking for is something [TS]

  that makes yeah writing swift better and [TS]

  easier like being able to refactor Swift [TS]

  code like the fact that we can't do that [TS]

  is kind of preposterous now and I've [TS]

  been talking to some people at work [TS]

  about Kotlin about some of these other [TS]

  languages about the way dotnet matured [TS]

  and if you look at the differences in [TS]

  dotnet over the same stretch of time as [TS]

  Swift has had I feel like c-sharp but [TS]

  maybe I should use c-sharp rather than [TS]

  that c-sharp moved way way quicker and I [TS]

  wish that Swift could pick up the pace a [TS]

  little bit which is funny because maybe [TS]

  the only way for them to pick up the [TS]

  pace a little bit might be to take away [TS]

  some of the community involvement and [TS]

  make it more dictatorial rather than [TS]

  democratic but anyway I digress [TS]

  I'm driving it I guess can go faster you [TS]

  really think c-sharp moved faster like [TS]

  did it did it have backwards [TS]

  incompatible syntax changes as rapidly [TS]

  as Swift did because I feel like that [TS]

  was unprecedented no I mean generally it [TS]

  was additive any time that the c-sharp [TS]

  maybe it wasn't always but generally my [TS]

  recollection is was always additive and [TS]

  in in you know there were always [TS]

  humongous features and pretty much every [TS]

  version like I don't remember the exact [TS]

  history offhand but one one didn't have [TS]

  generics then - Oh had generics that's [TS]

  when the language actually got usable I [TS]

  forget what 300 brought but then you had [TS]

  link and then you had async/await and so [TS]

  there's problems you're up to buy that [TS]

  Swift is in the three to four stage now [TS]

  right so I'm talking in terms of [TS]

  equivalent calendar time though and [TS]

  maybe I'm misremembering maybe I don't [TS]

  get the check those calendar days [TS]

  because I think actually Swift has been [TS]

  moving pretty quickly and I think it [TS]

  took a long time for c-sharp it [TS]

  check-check the timelines I feel like [TS]

  even sharp moved at a similar rate but [TS]

  didn't break syntax as much and went for [TS]

  longer until it got certainly before [TS]

  until it got a single weight and maybe [TS]

  even before it got linked yeah I don't [TS]

  remember off the top of my head when [TS]

  link came out but it was it is always [TS]

  been - my eyes moving quicker than then [TS]

  then Swift so link was released as a [TS]

  major part of dotnet 3507 so the [TS]

  2000-2001 ish was dotnet 1 1 2006 years [TS]

  so it doesn't been out for six years [TS]

  yeah that's true that's fair point it [TS]

  makes it seem it seems more compressed [TS]

  cos in the past and maybe IDs Shores [TS]

  coming along better but yeah I think [TS]

  truth yeah so I expect obviously there'd [TS]

  be new version Xcode and you know some [TS]

  of those things that you talked about [TS]

  feel like they should be coming around [TS]

  this time as as Apple turns the the [TS]

  giant ship that is its dev tools [TS]

  division slowly but surely over a [TS]

  multi-year period entirely towards Swift [TS]

  still no ABI compatibility like we're [TS]

  still waiting on that limits as many [TS]

  people plan out every time rings up is [TS]

  more of a concern for Apple than it is [TS]

  for developers people say who don't mind [TS]

  shipping slightly larger than normal [TS]

  applications which I guess is everybody [TS]

  judging by the App Store but things like [TS]

  refactoring and other features that like [TS]

  aren't available for Swift but have been [TS]

  available in some limited form for [TS]

  see or seem like they'll be reasonably [TS]

  easy to do given that the entire ID is [TS]

  built on the same compiler platform as [TS]

  the language and so on and so forth that [TS]

  uh yeah I expect people to be happy with [TS]

  with the features they get there but [TS]

  honestly it seems to me from looking at [TS]

  those public mailing lists and [TS]

  everything that there is still a pretty [TS]

  big emphasis on the basics you know [TS]

  compile quickly correctly without [TS]

  crashing you know that Depa [TS]

  that maybe they're still not quite in a [TS]

  position to start giving you all the [TS]

  frills that you want and that's probably [TS]

  the best place for them to be [TS]

  concentrating you out there they're [TS]

  getting more serious about source [TS]

  compatibility now and every developer [TS]

  there wants their thing to compile in a [TS]

  sane amount of time and they don't want [TS]

  the compiler to crash and they don't [TS]

  want there to be bugs and we're kind [TS]

  think we're coming out of that phase or [TS]

  Swift slowly but surely and maybe [TS]

  they'll have some things to brag about [TS]

  like look I don't know they usually [TS]

  don't worry about how many times EXO [TS]

  crashes but they will brag about compile [TS]

  times hey look you enable whole module [TS]

  optimisation and pile this big project [TS]

  and it was garbage in the past version [TS]

  but the new WWC beta version is like 10 [TS]

  times faster and everybody cheers so I [TS]

  was a crowd pleaser WotC compile times [TS]

  mm-hmm but in terms of like iOS directly [TS]

  shrug I don't know and like I'm there's [TS]

  there's nothing I can think of that I [TS]

  can point to that that really grinds my [TS]

  gears on a daily basis and and I think [TS]

  that's largely because I don't use the [TS]

  iPad very much at all so you think so [TS]

  you know if you're not an iPad user or [TS]

  we're setting aside the iPad where we [TS]

  think Apple have all needs to do stuff [TS]

  and they will do stuff I think that if [TS]

  they're rethinking how applications deal [TS]

  with and share their data not the [TS]

  drag-and-drop business because like on a [TS]

  phone you know you still just got one [TS]

  app on the screen at the same time [TS]

  probably all the windows what the hell [TS]

  will do with the giant phone but if they [TS]

  change how apps deal with data that [TS]

  could surface itself on the phone I'm [TS]

  trying to think if that would that would [TS]

  change something about how how we use [TS]

  the phone right like because that [TS]

  wouldn't be a paradigm that only changes [TS]

  on the iPad it would change everywhere [TS]

  across iOS and if they have a good idea [TS]

  about how to do it that would change the [TS]

  way we all use our phones [TS]

  in some small way imagine maybe even God [TS]

  I don't know like I was trying to think [TS]

  of like what we do with our phones we [TS]

  deal with photos a lot but we don't deal [TS]

  with them as files we deal with them as [TS]

  these abstract things so yeah I'm also [TS]

  struggling to think of any specific [TS]

  thing that they desperately need to do [TS]

  on the phone specifically to iOS but I'm [TS]

  sure there will be something and you [TS]

  know obviously you know you need new [TS]

  small features performance improvements [TS]

  you know bug fixes all sorts of stuff [TS]

  like that but burn we're not really [TS]

  counting those but dpi I feel like this [TS]

  will be this will be a pro year for iOS [TS]

  if all the rumors do be believed and it [TS]

  should be because that's that's where [TS]

  iOS needs the most tension I mean I [TS]

  would say that you know what with all [TS]

  the rumblings we've heard about the iPad [TS]

  productivity enhancements do sound very [TS]

  plausible I think a lot of it could come [TS]

  to the phone I mean you know some of the [TS]

  stuff like side-by-side multitasking [TS]

  obviously won't be coming from the phone [TS]

  in all likelihood but they could do drag [TS]

  and drop [TS]

  you know what if they did some kind of [TS]

  thing you know this is just totally [TS]

  random but you're sort of right now like [TS]

  what if they did some kind of thing [TS]

  where if you like force pressed on a [TS]

  selected piece of content say then you [TS]

  got something kind of like what expose [TS]

  and the Mac is where you were like it [TS]

  kind of zooms out to like a grid of the [TS]

  last couple of most recently used apps [TS]

  and you can drop it on to one of them [TS]

  and then that pops in you could drop on [TS]

  to a specific part of the app but there [TS]

  there are ways to do it on the phone I'm [TS]

  not saying they will do this or this [TS]

  this may even be a terrible idea I just [TS]

  thought of it now so I haven't thought [TS]

  this through [TS]

  so it could be terrible but they could [TS]

  totally do drag and drop [TS]

  and in inter app communication and data [TS]

  sharing without actually having side by [TS]

  side multitasking where the screen is [TS]

  too small like on the iPhone so I [TS]

  wouldn't rule it out but I would just [TS]

  say like in general I'm very excited to [TS]

  see if the rumors are to be believed [TS]

  here the the elevation of iCloud drive [TS]

  probably into like the desktop only the [TS]

  Documents folder for the I for iOS and [TS]

  that is a really I I think since they [TS]

  did since the dawn of iOS [TS]

  there has been this constant fight with [TS]

  an apple promptly from what we've heard [TS]

  spearheaded by Steve Jobs personally and [TS]

  possibly even forestall and kind of that [TS]

  line of thought of trying to get rid of [TS]

  having to deal with files they have [TS]

  worked so hard to get rid of files [TS]

  because files are the old way of doing [TS]

  things and people find them confusing [TS]

  them whatever else whatever else they [TS]

  have files have problems just like [TS]

  everything else but I think what we [TS]

  found over the years is that people [TS]

  people understand files better than [TS]

  Apple gave them credit for and that's so [TS]

  much of work that people do on computing [TS]

  devices really comes down to dealing [TS]

  with files and no matter what you try to [TS]

  do with the app model with having these [TS]

  little containers at the apps work use [TS]

  their own data this kind of like file [TS]

  lists architecture and or that you kind [TS]

  of hide the files in these little dark [TS]

  places like the document picker that we [TS]

  have now and you kind of reluctantly [TS]

  deal with files like it as the system I [TS]

  think what we found over over these you [TS]

  knows eight year whatever years that [TS]

  we've had the iPad that we have that we [TS]

  had a iOS 10 years Wow Gia's been a long [TS]

  time no 11 oh my god anyway all these [TS]

  years that we've had iOS I think what we [TS]

  found is that files are here to stay [TS]

  that we can we can reduce the ways we [TS]

  deal with files we can design apps that [TS]

  don't need to deal with files and maybe [TS]

  that should even be the default way most [TS]

  apps are designed depending on what they [TS]

  do but that we can't get rid of files [TS]

  that they're here to stay that people [TS]

  use them that they aren't necessarily [TS]

  even bad like it for many types of work [TS]

  that is less bad than the alternatives [TS]

  that we've been trying trying to shove [TS]

  down people's throats for the last [TS]

  decade so maybe this is finally the time [TS]

  when Apple has finally embraced files on [TS]

  iOS because everything they've done [TS]

  prior to this has really not been that [TS]

  it's really been like reluctant you know [TS]

  back alley stuff now like they from what [TS]

  we've what we've heard is at all true it [TS]

  sounds like they have finally taken the [TS]

  step of making files [TS]

  easier to work with an iOS yeah that's [TS]

  definitely the rumor but I feel like [TS]

  they already took a big step in that [TS]

  direction when they when they adopted a [TS]

  modified version of the Dropbox model [TS]

  with iCloud Drive like that was that was [TS]

  a big change that was kind of not that I [TS]

  agree that it didn't solve the problem [TS]

  in the same way but that was the turning [TS]

  point I feel like where you could see [TS]

  from the outside you could see aha [TS]

  inside the company the argument that you [TS]

  just described like the the supposed [TS]

  jobs for stall position totally against [TS]

  files that the tide had turned right now [TS]

  obviously they couldn't come out at that [TS]

  point and say oh we've revamped the [TS]

  entire way we deal with files in iOS [TS]

  like they took a while and a lot of [TS]

  these things bother by a lot of the iOS [TS]

  rumored things a lot of them are like oh [TS]

  that was almost ready for iOS 10 it [TS]

  didn't quite make it like they have been [TS]

  a long time coming some of them could [TS]

  have been theory almost made it to iOS [TS]

  10 but they have just you know they [TS]

  missed releases and so they've built up [TS]

  and so now it's all landing now but [TS]

  iCloud Drive did come out it came out to [TS]

  the Mac and iOS and it did change the [TS]

  way a lot of applications you do with [TS]

  things you mentioned like the Dropbox [TS]

  picker which thought that was something [TS]

  unheard of in the early days of iOS so [TS]

  this could be like the coming-out party [TS]

  for a strategy that was embarked upon [TS]

  multiple years ago and now finally you [TS]

  know comes to fruition and in terms of [TS]

  the files like every time I think about [TS]

  different ways of dealing with files [TS]

  that are not actual files or not actual [TS]

  file system and stuff like that I think [TS]

  a little bit about Google's take on this [TS]

  which I know is different cuz all their [TS]

  stuff is in the cloud but the [TS]

  interesting files and documents like [TS]

  well this you know there's not really [TS]

  any difference like it's just [TS]

  alternative ways of viewing the same [TS]

  thing but it's the way Google is pretty [TS]

  relentless about dealing with documents [TS]

  and documents that are organized into [TS]

  things that look like little folders but [TS]

  at no point are there anything is there [TS]

  any abstraction that is identifiable as [TS]

  a file really I mean even when they give [TS]

  you like a list view like in in [TS]

  experience of my experience using Google [TS]

  Docs and Google sheets and all that [TS]

  Google presentations and Google Drive at [TS]

  work with a bunch of other people seeing [TS]

  how other people both talk about and [TS]

  deal with documents Google Documents is [TS]

  subtly different than how they talk [TS]

  about and deal with files because we do [TS]

  have shared drives with files in the [TS]

  Mareth and I'm not sure one way is [TS]

  better than the [TS]

  but Google has been made a pretty [TS]

  convincing case for me that dealing with [TS]

  things like documents even with awkward [TS]

  weird shareable URLs but that the URLs [TS]

  that still work even if you [TS]

  quote-unquote remove the documents to a [TS]

  different quote-unquote folder like it's [TS]

  weird it's like this weird half measure [TS]

  that I don't think is appropriate for [TS]

  iOS but it shows me that there is that [TS]

  it is possible to have a middle path [TS]

  that people find at least as usable and [TS]

  in some aspects better than the old way [TS]

  of dealing with files obviously the [TS]

  multi-user collaboration helps [TS]

  tremendously to I think it bounces off [TS]

  the awkwardness like that people would [TS]

  in the grand scheme of things people [TS]

  probably would rather be dealing with [TS]

  files and folders but because Google [TS]

  does so well with live multiple verse [TS]

  and editing and permissioning on [TS]

  documents that makes you know a group of [TS]

  people like a company or working on [TS]

  files together forgive a whole bunch of [TS]

  other things unfortunately don't feel [TS]

  like Apple can bring that if history has [TS]

  shown Apple cannot bring the seamless [TS]

  multi-user editing of all data types [TS]

  with the constant synchronization in the [TS]

  cloud a source of truth and blah blah [TS]

  blah blah and style that Google does so [TS]

  they have to they have to bring [TS]

  something else and this is probably a [TS]

  bad time for me to be pondering the [TS]

  future of an iCloud Drive style [TS]

  revolution for the entirety of iOS [TS]

  bringing it more in line with enhancing [TS]

  its capabilities by taking the taking [TS]

  the shackles off and not confining to a [TS]

  very simple paradigm because I just got [TS]

  done today reading a sad tweets read [TS]

  from our friend CGP grey about his [TS]

  battles with iCloud Drive and the amount [TS]

  of free spaces Mac thinks he has and [TS]

  also Marco with his potentially [TS]

  exhausted file descriptors which may or [TS]

  may not be attributable to this all this [TS]

  is to say that at least on the Mac [TS]

  iCloud Drive is still in the doghouse as [TS]

  far as I'm concerned and I kind of don't [TS]

  relish that paradigm expanding much more [TS]

  until reliability gets better but on iOS [TS]

  I have to confess I haven't had any of [TS]

  those problems on iOS and in iOS [TS]

  everything is much more locked down and [TS]

  maybe it will be fine [TS]

  but but the thing you described mark [TS]

  over like the force press and like the [TS]

  dragging onto things if like you were [TS]

  talking about dragging data right yet if [TS]

  there is any kind of file picker [TS]

  interface some way to grab one of those [TS]

  one of those documents or files or [TS]

  whatever and bring it somewhere seems [TS]

  like a necessity and obviously that that [TS]

  then inference you described works even [TS]

  better on a big screen because then [TS]

  you've got the second hand to swipe like [TS]

  that's the whole problem with like once [TS]

  you've grabbed that quote-unquote [TS]

  grabbed it what if the thing you want to [TS]

  drag it to isn't there because it does [TS]

  the grid of things like then you have to [TS]

  do like it's the springboard rearranging [TS]

  problem like when you grab a thing to [TS]

  rearrange springboard and you want to [TS]

  rearrange it to a different screen you [TS]

  got a drag you to the edge you hold it [TS]

  there and it's generally it's an [TS]

  operation that people find awkward and [TS]

  unsatisfying whereas if you can grab it [TS]

  on your iPad and with your other hand [TS]

  swipe around to find the thing you want [TS]

  to drag it on top that works on a phone [TS]

  it works less well so I almost think [TS]

  that interface you describe a will [TS]

  almost certainly be a part of a bunch of [TS]

  demos even if it's not files data but [TS]

  just like it has to be some kind of grab [TS]

  a file and then zoom in or out to a [TS]

  different view and put it on something [TS]

  else it can't just be side by side at [TS]

  least I feel away they're going to even [TS]

  be some kind of a little like shelf [TS]

  thing to kind of temporarily hold it [TS]

  while you use your other while you use [TS]

  the same hand to pick the destination [TS]

  right but I always think that interface [TS]

  is actually better suited to a bigger [TS]

  screen it sounds like they won't do it [TS]

  on a smaller one in fact they have no [TS]

  choice but to do in a smaller one [TS]

  because they said you can't split it [TS]

  even a shelf on a smaller one so well on [TS]

  my phone iPhone 5 iPhone se where the [TS]

  hell that thing is called you can have [TS]

  room for a shelf to put I don't know but [TS]

  I'm kind of excited about that I saw the [TS]

  coming out party of this this file-based [TS]

  paradigm because and I think it's also [TS]

  no guarantee that it will be the [TS]

  solution everyone seeks obviously nerds [TS]

  will love it way better but but we'll [TS]

  see like you know again with my [TS]

  experience with Google with Google's [TS]

  products nothing about them made people [TS]

  better about dealing with files but it [TS]

  brought a bunch of features with it that [TS]

  everybody loves and I guess the only [TS]

  thing only improvement to the file [TS]

  paradigm it brought with it is sharing [TS]

  the people seem to be able to figure out [TS]

  which is not true of like sharing and a [TS]

  lot of other systems [TS]

  and the fact that you can move things [TS]

  around and people's links to them don't [TS]

  break which is is convenient so I have [TS]

  I've kind of middle the road hopes for [TS]

  iOS 11 but I expect it to be the true [TS]

  star of the keynote if there's no Siri [TS]

  tube I would also expect some degree of [TS]

  redesign we've seen little rumblings [TS]

  here and there about this I think if you [TS]

  look at the conditions that were right [TS]

  before iOS 7 so at the iOS 6 era it was [TS]

  a time when the system stock UI widgets [TS]

  started looking more dated than usual [TS]

  and they're starting like apps started [TS]

  coming out that people consider to be [TS]

  really good new design that was kind of [TS]

  fresh and different that also was kind [TS]

  of converging on some similar principles [TS]

  so back then it was like letterpress and [TS]

  like then vesper like the you know these [TS]

  apps that were back in the I was 6 era [TS]

  that were doing like you know flat [TS]

  shapes no big textures you know mostly [TS]

  color and you know accent color based [TS]

  design things that that ended up being [TS]

  very close to what iOS 7 was and then [TS]

  iOS 7 came out it was kind of at the [TS]

  right time for it well I think now is [TS]

  the right time for a redesign not on the [TS]

  scale of iOS 7 redesign but maybe on the [TS]

  scale of when we went from iOS 5 to 6 [TS]

  remember [TS]

  iOS 6 was kind of a half step in a [TS]

  redesign like it kind of it got rid of a [TS]

  lot of the iOS 5 extravagance of things [TS]

  like textures like certain things were [TS]

  flattened and toned down and sanded away [TS]

  and things like that so I think we're [TS]

  going to have that level of redesign [TS]

  here because we can see even if you look [TS]

  around even Apple's own apps if you look [TS]

  at iOS 10 the iOS 10 music app and maps [TS]

  especially I think has a different look [TS]

  than everything else and a couple years [TS]

  ago they released the WTC 2017 NASA [TS]

  isn't that the thing we always do it we [TS]

  see app and we say this is what the new [TS]

  iOS is going to look like and sometimes [TS]

  there's an element of truth that a lot [TS]

  of times not right but but there are I [TS]

  think we can see common elements that [TS]

  are now considered [TS]

  good fresh new design that are kind of [TS]

  being agreed upon or converged upon that [TS]

  are very different from ios7 some [TS]

  examples this would be things like kind [TS]

  of layered sheets with rounded corners [TS]

  instead of navigation controllers in iOS [TS]

  7 the push big white sharp rectangles [TS]

  side to side and now you have these like [TS]

  softer rounded sheets that slide up you [TS]

  pull things with swipes and you know and [TS]

  swipes are your primary navigation often [TS]

  for a lot of apps you move controls you [TS]

  know you scoot them kind of in away from [TS]

  the edges and corners so much because [TS]

  they're harder to reach on big phones [TS]

  this is a lot of stuff I did with [TS]

  overcast and the reason I did it was [TS]

  because I saw the stuff happening I saw [TS]

  this trend happening I wanted to get [TS]

  ahead of it you have buttons that look a [TS]

  little bit more like buttons like in the [TS]

  WC app is a great example they're like [TS]

  they're rounded rectangles that are [TS]

  they're not textured there there's a [TS]

  solid little solid color instead of just [TS]

  an outline because that I go in with [TS]

  with note with just the text and then [TS]

  there was outlines around the text and [TS]

  now we can go slowly creeping back up [TS]

  onto the old style button where it is a [TS]

  solid rounded rectangle with text in the [TS]

  middle exactly yeah now you guys have a [TS]

  flat saw a flat shaded filled solid [TS]

  filled rectangle or round wrecked with [TS]

  with and and it's with a bold color to [TS]

  it isn't like a subtle thing it isn't a [TS]

  gray it's a bold color and it seems like [TS]

  apps are now kind of permitted to use [TS]

  more than one color at a time like the [TS]

  the iOS 7 design was largely based upon [TS]

  using mostly white some thin grey lines [TS]

  and then you'd have one tint color and [TS]

  that would be like your one accent color [TS]

  for your app and you'd use that one so [TS]

  you basically had like single color [TS]

  design grayscale plus one color now I [TS]

  think we're having multiple colors are [TS]

  now okay to have an apps again and so an [TS]

  eeo again if you look at like look at [TS]

  Apple music look at the iOS 10 Maps app [TS]

  and this new WTC 2017 app and I think [TS]

  you see this clear convergence of a [TS]

  refreshed design language it is not on [TS]

  the scale of iOS 7's redesign but the [TS]

  same or more maybe as the iOS 6 readers [TS]

  was [TS]

  was [TS]

  think you're going to keep the I mean I [TS]

  guess they have to probably in some way [TS]

  the the button list buttons like even [TS]

  just for things that are in whatever you [TS]

  call the top bar where you had done or [TS]

  you we good yeah navigate yeah that's [TS]

  that was a big question I have when when [TS]

  write-ins I was like what do they do [TS]

  with navigation bar buttons because in [TS]

  the iOS six days they would have [TS]

  outlines and textures and like and it [TS]

  and I don't think that would look good [TS]

  here but I think they can be done well [TS]

  part I mean part of the answer honestly [TS]

  might just be that navigation bars are [TS]

  going out of style and that you know [TS]

  most apps are not using these kind of [TS]

  like sheets and cards and things that [TS]

  are not as often using navigation bars [TS]

  or not putting buttons there because you [TS]

  can't reach that anymore so bright but [TS]

  they're they're still going to be in the [TS]

  OS I think they're going to keep the [TS]

  they'll keep them in the OS especially [TS]

  for legacy applications they obviously [TS]

  have to importing them and I think they [TS]

  will continue to be on the Doorn because [TS]

  at this point like the bar itself serves [TS]

  as a pretty good framing device to be - [TS]

  indeed the tint color plus the bar this [TS]

  is one area where I think they were [TS]

  right makes it pretty clear that by this [TS]

  point if you have an iPhone for any of [TS]

  your time that that done thing is a [TS]

  button and then you can hit it and you [TS]

  kind of have an idea of what it will do [TS]

  one of the most awkward elements that [TS]

  was that'd recently was at the iOS 9 [TS]

  where they had the back arrow thing they [TS]

  jam up into the upper left corner to get [TS]

  you back to the previous application I [TS]

  would love for them to come up with a [TS]

  better solution for that I don't have an [TS]

  idea for them but it always strikes me [TS]

  is the the most awkward Johnny I've [TS]

  painting inappropriately composed text [TS]

  jammed up into the cars it's like the [TS]

  beginning of a kernel panic like it [TS]

  starts writing here's this tiny little [TS]

  bit and I appreciate the functionality [TS]

  like I use it all the time it is good [TS]

  although sometimes it fakes me out [TS]

  because sometimes I want to hit the [TS]

  thing that's in the navigation bar [TS]

  underneath that thing that's not a fun [TS]

  operation to like carefully you know [TS]

  here's the thing I do like I go for my [TS]

  mail application click a link and then [TS]

  I'm into Safari the navigation thing [TS]

  that hop says go back to mail right and [TS]

  then you're scrolling through the web [TS]

  page it open in Safari and you navigate [TS]

  that you navigating you realize oh I [TS]

  want to go back to the previous page in [TS]

  Safari yes if you didn't have a case on [TS]

  your iPhone you'll probably edge swipe [TS]

  but I have difficulty with that because [TS]

  I do have a case so what I want to do is [TS]

  hit the back button in Safari which a is [TS]

  invisible right now because I've [TS]

  scrolled [TS]

  right and B when I find a way to make [TS]

  visible is nestled snugly under the back [TS]

  to mail link so very frequently I go to [TS]

  hit the back button instead I hit the [TS]

  two pixels away back to mail thing [TS]

  instead of going back as far I go into [TS]

  an entirely different application and [TS]

  then I'm sad so I would love for them to [TS]

  sort that out [TS]

  speaking of it there you go there's [TS]

  something they could do for iOS on the [TS]

  phone for small screens sort out that [TS]

  mess up there somehow and if the [TS]

  solution is like like you said like you [TS]

  know navigation bars the advices don't [TS]

  do that because people can't reach them [TS]

  anymore and here are different paradigms [TS]

  you know either just you know edge [TS]

  swipes or a lower navigation bar thing [TS]

  or those rounded rect sheets or whatever [TS]

  I'm I'm ready for that because I think [TS]

  that a iOS interface it read it up you [TS]

  know best practices shift that better [TS]

  reflects the size of phone screens these [TS]

  days is a little bit overdue ya have a [TS]

  double tap to move things down like it [TS]

  was nice they put that there but you [TS]

  know that that's another like that [TS]

  little back thing that's another like [TS]

  well what can we do in the timeframe of [TS]

  this release to help people with large [TS]

  screens up you know well they could tap [TS]

  on the thing and make the screen fold [TS]

  that yeah all right perfect ship it that [TS]

  I think is the more embarrassing hack [TS]

  compared to the status bar back button [TS]

  thing the reach ability feature is so [TS]

  embarrassing I honestly I I think it [TS]

  probably has some utility but I just [TS]

  never remembered that it exists the only [TS]

  time I remembers it exists is when I [TS]

  accidentally activate it and then I go [TS]

  you know I could probably benefit from [TS]

  using that intentionally every once in a [TS]

  while but I no never never do I don't [TS]

  think I've ever used it intentionally [TS]

  that eventually I just disabled it [TS]

  there's an option so instead of super [TS]

  say because I knew I would only ever [TS]

  accidentally invoke it and it drove me [TS]

  nuts so I just turned it off and it's [TS]

  been fine so anything else about iOS [TS]

  we're just zoom 11 there's gonna keep [TS]

  going up with the numbers yeah yeah [TS]

  somebody had an interesting theory I [TS]

  want to say it was either Mike or Jason [TS]

  that that everything will go to 11 this [TS]

  year so in Mac OS 11 I Oh s 11 yeah that [TS]

  was that was Jason I highly recommend if [TS]

  you if you haven't heard by the end of [TS]

  this episode at this like probably four [TS]

  hour long episode if you haven't heard [TS]

  enough WC predictions [TS]

  I highly recommend this week's episode [TS]

  of upgrade there's a lot of good stuff [TS]

  in there yeah very much so they do a [TS]

  whole draft it's very funny and it's [TS]

  where it's very much worth listening to [TS]

  in the show is in general but [TS]

  particularly the WDC episodes are great [TS]

  but anyway yeah going to 11 I mean they [TS]

  took the numbers they took the Roman [TS]

  numeral off Mac OS and I don't I don't [TS]

  see why they put the number back on at [TS]

  this point you know I mean like iOS 11 [TS]

  Mac OS has the the place names and I [TS]

  like I like the yearly the flavor the [TS]

  yearly flavor I honestly it would be [TS]

  cool if I always have those two I know [TS]

  they don't do it or whatever but like [TS]

  it's kind of like a legacy thing for Mac [TS]

  OS when it had the code names then it [TS]

  had the cat names and now it's got the [TS]

  place names and get you know get Mac on [TS]

  with some fun stuff it had to endure [TS]

  this terrible capitalization squished up [TS]

  name so it matches all their other [TS]

  stupid OS names at the very least [TS]

  continue to give it to place names [TS]

  because there's lots of fun things you [TS]

  can do with that if they were to get rid [TS]

  of that and just go with Mac OS 11 iOS [TS]

  11 certainly fits with the human for me [TS]

  story like is that they want everything [TS]

  to be all the same and look now we're [TS]

  sick right but what the hell would the [TS]

  11 mean because it's not the version [TS]

  number I can tell you that like it [TS]

  really just bumped the version number to [TS]

  be 11 I think I feel like they should [TS]

  have learned their lesson when they went [TS]

  to you know from 10 9 to 10 10 and [TS]

  everyone's like version number you know [TS]

  everyone's incorrect version number [TS]

  checks and their applications got all [TS]

  freaked out to change the first digit [TS]

  from 10 to 11 in the version I mean they [TS]

  didn't do it once I suppose they can do [TS]

  it but it just it just seems like not a [TS]

  big marketing win because 11 is more [TS]

  boring than like Sacramento or whatever [TS]

  I think changed in the first digit makes [TS]

  total sense like it and you know as [TS]

  Jason said on the upgrade like if [TS]

  they're ever going to do it it makes [TS]

  total sense to do it now so it sort of [TS]

  then matches the iOS version for future [TS]

  marketing purposes [TS]

  and you know if it whether the first [TS]

  four you know right now the first digit [TS]

  has been 10 for so long it's basically [TS]

  meaningless like you can just ignore the [TS]

  first it doesn't matter at all which [TS]

  kind of raises the question of why why [TS]

  even bother keeping that for like it's [TS]

  like it what purpose is it serving just [TS]

  being ten point something for it it's [TS]

  making people's incorrect version number [TS]

  checks continue to function correctly [TS]

  that was a Windows thing that's why they [TS]

  went from 8 to 10 that was this on a Mac [TS]

  thing I mean like know that with them [TS]

  Mack they had it when they went ten nine [TS]

  to ten ten because a lot of things would [TS]

  interpret ten ten is ten one and being [TS]

  less than ten nine because yeah I mean [TS]

  it's not a big deal like those you know [TS]

  it's not gonna stop them from doing it [TS]

  certainly if they feel like it [TS]

  especially for marketing reasons but [TS]

  it's you know I don't I think the bigger [TS]

  reasons it to to not do it is because [TS]

  place names are more fun than numbers [TS]

  and and like and we all been asking like [TS]

  Mac OS stop trying to keep pace with iOS [TS]

  would be more comfortable if you waited [TS]

  a little bit longer between releases and [TS]

  got things settled because that's your [TS]

  role your role is the more slow-moving [TS]

  one but they're not doing that they're [TS]

  already not doing that they're already [TS]

  releasing them both once a year I know [TS]

  but but if they make the numbers sync [TS]

  then that's like saying we're signed up [TS]

  for you know an unlimited number more [TS]

  years where every year that they have to [TS]

  be in lockstep and I don't like that [TS]

  yeah anyway what else what else do [TS]

  besides naming things aside I love that [TS]

  every year this discussion happens about [TS]

  like Mac OS naming it's always heavily [TS]

  discussed because it is it is more [TS]

  interesting and everyone has an opinion [TS]

  myself included like much more than we [TS]

  think we will anyway so let's get aside [TS]

  with the new default desktop backgrounds [TS]

  will be that's the most exciting part of [TS]

  Mac OS is like and it's kind of and you [TS]

  know I speak as someone who reviews for [TS]

  Mac operating system for a long time [TS]

  I enjoyed the like the visual theming [TS]

  and branding and on the Mac the default [TS]

  desktop picture is the biggest boldest [TS]

  branding thing of the running OS iOS [TS]

  they do the best they do with branding [TS]

  is the lock screens they show in the PR [TS]

  stuff and maybe the selections of the [TS]

  springboard backgrounds but they're [TS]

  always much more hidden than if you see [TS]

  a Mac desktop of it like a newly booted [TS]

  Mac even if it has a few windows open [TS]

  like the the desktop background is so [TS]

  dominant whereas the springboard [TS]

  background is much less dominant so [TS]

  there's not much in iOS to massively [TS]

  brand the OS outside of the the widgets [TS]

  themselves and the UI and stuff like [TS]

  that so I I do enjoy like a you think [TS]

  you're making a joke like oh who cares [TS]

  what the default desktop background is [TS]

  the Mac yeah that's a big part of the [TS]

  excitement of a new version of the Mac [TS]

  operating system for me I don't know [TS]

  on an anomaly but like the big posters [TS]

  they put up with whatever the theme is [TS]

  or the big waves for mavericks and the [TS]

  cool pictures of Yosemite and I like [TS]

  that stuff and you know in the absence [TS]

  of them particularly changing the Mac UI [TS]

  which doesn't seem like they're [TS]

  interested in these days all we get is a [TS]

  cool name and a cool desktop picture and [TS]

  sometimes that's enough to make an [TS]

  association of my mind that I will I [TS]

  will link those images in that branding [TS]

  in that sort of mood and theme with [TS]

  whatever features they add whether they [TS]

  be oh this is the one that had Siri or [TS]

  this is the one where they added [TS]

  spotlight or is the one that had time [TS]

  machine or this year this is the one [TS]

  with the new file system that they won't [TS]

  even mention in the keynote so so that's [TS]

  so that leads into my next point here [TS]

  our Mac OS which is you know first of [TS]

  all I think we we all assume based on [TS]

  how they did iOS as roll out and their [TS]

  promises last year that a PFS is most [TS]

  likely going to ship with whatever the [TS]

  next version Mac OS is and I would even [TS]

  say most likely even the default and I [TS]

  would go a little bit further and say [TS]

  what if it's the only option what if you [TS]

  have to convert your boot drive other [TS]

  drives you do probably whatever you want [TS]

  but what if you have to convert your [TS]

  boot drive to a PFS upon installation I [TS]

  think that will be that big of a deal [TS]

  because a we know they can do it really [TS]

  really well right so that you know it's [TS]

  not like it's going to trash people's [TS]

  data and of all the things be like a [TS]

  boot drive the only time that messes [TS]

  with you is if you frequently use target [TS]

  disk mode right because every other way [TS]

  that that disk is read you don't have to [TS]

  worry there's not IDs Plus anymore [TS]

  target disk mode all of a sudden your [TS]

  other Mac's can't read it anymore if [TS]

  they're not upgraded as well right but [TS]

  all if you're sharing it like it's you [TS]

  know SMB or you know whatever like it's [TS]

  not doesn't matter what format it is and [TS]

  so I think that's a reasonable thing to [TS]

  do I'm just wondering like what would be [TS]

  the advantage right oh this operation [TS]

  doesn't have to run hfs+ maybe if [TS]

  there's some kind of headlining feature [TS]

  that demands a PFS like the newly [TS]

  rejected version of time machine that's [TS]

  like way more efficient and stuff but [TS]

  they have an old version of time machine [TS]

  that works as H of s plus I don't know [TS]

  personally I don't think there's going [TS]

  to be the fancy new version of time [TS]

  machine that works with a PS yet anyway [TS]

  so I think this is not the [TS]

  for forcing default unless is some other [TS]

  feature I that I'm not thinking of about [TS]

  forcing the the boot volume to be a PFS [TS]

  I think they could do it but I'm looking [TS]

  for a reason why they would want to but [TS]

  they would want to do that [TS]

  maybe maybe simplicity I like again with [TS]

  all the Mac things they just feel like [TS]

  do they care enough about the Mac to be [TS]

  that aggressive with the advancement of [TS]

  the platform or where they just you know [TS]

  this is one area where they will take a [TS]

  slower pace like this year a PFS rollout [TS]

  a couple new features that are based on [TS]

  it next year if we're lucky the new [TS]

  version of time machine that takes [TS]

  advantage of all the cool stuff right [TS]

  see I have a hard time gauging like how [TS]

  much of a big deal Mac OS is going to be [TS]

  this year there's a whole bunch of [TS]

  things that that the Mac could you know [TS]

  if they're going to be putting more [TS]

  effort into the Mac than they have been [TS]

  recently there are areas that that could [TS]

  be really cool things like a new time [TS]

  machine based on a PFS snapshots and [TS]

  everything and and that could there's [TS]

  that's incredibly powerful the things [TS]

  you can do by having a snapshot based [TS]

  time machine you know and there's - you [TS]

  know you can do not only the external [TS]

  drive backup but even like just making [TS]

  giving snapshot support to the internal [TS]

  time machine like the the time machine [TS]

  on its own drive kind of thing like kind [TS]

  of like mini time machine having get rid [TS]

  of the terrible local time machine hack [TS]

  that we are yeah our Mac laptops whether [TS]

  we know it or not which is in my [TS]

  experience extremely unreliable and yet [TS]

  still they're grinding away trying to do [TS]

  something useful for you and just like [TS]

  just please stop and you can turn it off [TS]

  yes I know exactly that like they're [TS]

  there are there's all this cruft [TS]

  in mac OS because of having to do these [TS]

  advanced features on HFS+ that if they [TS]

  just make a PFS the only option that [TS]

  just your boot drive automatically gets [TS]

  converted when you install the next Mac [TS]

  OS which is exactly what they did with [TS]

  iOS then they could they could stop [TS]

  supporting a whole lot of that legacy [TS]

  stuff like it would be it'd be much [TS]

  better for their efforts to bring the a [TS]

  PFS features forward if they knew the OS [TS]

  was only running on a PFS so I think [TS]

  it's it's plausible but I still have to [TS]

  support all hfs+ anyway because you [TS]

  could time machine back of external [TS]

  volumes and they're going to be H of s [TS]

  plus and so on and so forth so like it's [TS]

  not like they can get rid of all the [TS]

  legacy Croft code and [TS]

  time soon that's why I'm thinking of [TS]

  like but what if there's a feature that [TS]

  they just like they wouldn't want to [TS]

  have a feature that says oh let's let's [TS]

  demo this awesome new feature say it's [TS]

  the new time machine and also have to [TS]

  say oh and you could only use this [TS]

  feature if you convert your boot volume [TS]

  that's the case where they would say [TS]

  you're you know they probably won't even [TS]

  mention it but be it would be able to [TS]

  convert your boob on you no matter what [TS]

  but even in that case they still have to [TS]

  support the old crap way of time machine [TS]

  because people I have external drives [TS]

  that I back up their time machine and [TS]

  they are hfs+ and asking people to you [TS]

  know not asking but forcibly upgrading [TS]

  the boot drive as part of the upgrade [TS]

  process like they did in iOS you can [TS]

  swing that telling them oh and by the [TS]

  way you also have to convert all your [TS]

  external drives not not gonna happen [TS]

  yeah maybe [TS]

  well I I'm stopped miss that they might [TS]

  require on the boot drive though but [TS]

  anyway that's a that's a question for [TS]

  prediction wise do you think the were [TS]

  the letters AP FS and that order all [TS]

  capitals will appear on any slide or be [TS]

  spoken by any presenter like I said we [TS]

  spoken in passing maybe yes [TS]

  will it appear on a slide yes absolutely [TS]

  worst-case scenario it will appear on [TS]

  the word cloud slide uh yeah it is I [TS]

  mean obviously in State of the Union and [TS]

  stuff would be I'm trying to think of [TS]

  the keynote does it does it make peace [TS]

  didn't make the keynote last year and [TS]

  that's when it was introduced remember [TS]

  we found out about it when we left the [TS]

  building and it was like oh by the way a [TS]

  BFS I remember that moment very [TS]

  specifically as I remember it too but [TS]

  like the fact that it didn't make the [TS]

  keynote didn't do not good enough for [TS]

  the keynote sorry [TS]

  replacing a you know 15 year old 19 year [TS]

  old depending on how you trace it back [TS]

  the HFS the file system not not [TS]

  important it made the State of the Union [TS]

  and it totally will this time too and [TS]

  it'll be sessions about it and I'll be [TS]

  all happy and everything but I really [TS]

  that's big of hopes and dreams give me [TS]

  this one ha talk about a PFS at least in [TS]

  passing during the Mac section of the [TS]

  viz keynote do you hear that Craig make [TS]

  it happen [TS]

  Jesus so here's a long shot there was [TS]

  there was a thing that I think he TV [TS]

  tipster told us forever ago that was [TS]

  like being considered and I haven't [TS]

  heard a thing about it since what [TS]

  probably isn't happening long shot [TS]

  though do you think they would offer [TS]

  iCloud Time Machine as an online backup [TS]

  and and here's so one reason I think [TS]

  they might besides the fact that they [TS]

  now would have the the technical info [TS]

  sure with a PFS to reasonably do it I [TS]

  think one of the one of the themes that [TS]

  I expect to see here is Apple pushing [TS]

  people even harder into subscribing to [TS]

  iCloud data plants into buying more [TS]

  iCloud storage space give you more and [TS]

  more compelling reasons for people to [TS]

  start paying Apple three five ten or [TS]

  twenty dollars a month for this iPod [TS]

  storage space because there's going to [TS]

  be more and more features that can use [TS]

  it [TS]

  iCloud time machine would use a ton of [TS]

  it so what if they did that [TS]

  I'll buy totally going to do that it's [TS]

  just a question of whether it's it's [TS]

  this year or not and and speaking of [TS]

  Apple services I think I mean we still [TS]

  complain about their pricing and how [TS]

  they're sometimes competitive sometimes [TS]

  not depending on the year depending on [TS]

  the thing you're looking at depending on [TS]

  how you're measuring it but I've always [TS]

  felt like the Apple way to do things and [TS]

  we mention this many times in the [TS]

  context of iOS and now I think of it [TS]

  again in the context of iCloud time [TS]

  machine is not to buy an amount of space [TS]

  because that's a techie nerd thing and [TS]

  people don't like to think about that [TS]

  especially because it's like more price [TS]

  you know higher price for more put to [TS]

  sell to sell a backup my Mac plan right [TS]

  like I mean you're like Backblaze or any [TS]

  other things do like you don't buy based [TS]

  on space you buy based on I want to [TS]

  backup this Mac like you buy like a [TS]

  membership in a club and then you break [TS]

  the association between like Apple loves [TS]

  to do break the association between the [TS]

  dollar amount and a spec right the [TS]

  dollar amount and storage space and now [TS]

  it's the dollar amount and a result and [TS]

  the result is your Mac is part of the [TS]

  iCloud backup cloud and just like your [TS]

  phone is backed up to the cloud your Mac [TS]

  is back though obviously the phone has [TS]

  the same problem that you buy storage [TS]

  spacing people run out of it and they [TS]

  freak out and we've talked about this a [TS]

  million times if Apple's going to charge [TS]

  more than everybody else the way to hide [TS]

  that extra cost is to I mean essentially [TS]

  like go unlimited but not really like to [TS]

  make it to make it that you're buying [TS]

  the result and obviously how much [TS]

  storage space we would use would be [TS]

  based on the size of your your your boot [TS]

  drive of your device or their like that [TS]

  obviously that would be a limit and you [TS]

  know and I mean but like to frame it in [TS]

  that way or maybe it doesn't have to be [TS]

  a way honestly aback players can do it [TS]

  why the hell can't Apple right can't is [TS]

  very different and will continue anyway [TS]

  I [TS]

  Time Machine has to come just I don't [TS]

  know if local time machine is even [TS]

  coming this year let alone cloud Time [TS]

  Machine is it I think that is entirely a [TS]

  matter of how they could have done that [TS]

  years ago like they could have done it [TS]

  badly but like you know they did it on [TS]

  the phones with HFS+ and obviously the [TS]

  phones is easier because you know [TS]

  exactly what you need to back up and you [TS]

  can discard lots of stuff because you [TS]

  can get it from the store and yada yada [TS]

  yada [TS]

  but Apple love services and you're right [TS]

  this is a way to charge more for [TS]

  services and they have the technical [TS]

  underpinnings to do a much better job of [TS]

  this so it's it's only a matter of time [TS]

  and a matter of you know how much [TS]

  attention is the Matt getting yeah I [TS]

  really do think that what Apple wants [TS]

  and what you know they're pushing for [TS]

  more and more services revenue obviously [TS]

  it's it's the it's an area of growth [TS]

  that they can use that is probably [TS]

  easier to achieve than some of the other [TS]

  areas of growth to maintain such [TS]

  different scales and everything so [TS]

  they're going to be pushing this heavily [TS]

  as they have been the last couple years [TS]

  I expect in general I expect there to be [TS]

  things like very very heavy pushes [TS]

  towards subscribing to Apple music [TS]

  that's going to be a big one and I think [TS]

  iCloud Drive or just iCloud storage is [TS]

  going to be one of those things too I [TS]

  basically my theory is that within [TS]

  probably the next few years Apple wants [TS]

  to try to make it so that using an [TS]

  iPhone or Mac or any Apple device [TS]

  without having a decent amount of iCloud [TS]

  storage space that you're paying for [TS]

  every month should feel like using it [TS]

  without an Apple ID but there should be [TS]

  like all this stuff that you're missing [TS]

  out on by not paying Apple five or ten [TS]

  bucks a month for this additional [TS]

  storage that's where I think they want [TS]

  to push this and I think they will and [TS]

  it's not like purely cynical there's [TS]

  lots of great things they can offer once [TS]

  you do that but I do think there's [TS]

  certainly a big motivation there to [TS]

  increase that services revenue and [TS]

  that's going to be one of the ways they [TS]

  do it that happens to correspond to [TS]

  things that are also nice for users my [TS]

  stretch hope and dream for Mac OS before [TS]

  we leave this topic is that I left [TS]

  thinking about this but announcement of [TS]

  vastly improved 3d API support whether [TS]

  that be OpenGL Vulcan or whatever like [TS]

  an inexplicable announcement because [TS]

  they wouldn't have any hardware [TS]

  associated with it be like why alright [TS]

  that's great but [TS]

  like non-games on a Mac and all your [TS]

  GPUs are really weak why are you [TS]

  doubting your improved OpenGL support [TS]

  like that you're caught up with the spec [TS]

  and that you're like and we would know [TS]

  the answer is like this another shoe [TS]

  that's gonna drop it it's called the Mac [TS]

  Pro that they're going to make someday [TS]

  and maybe it'll have awesome GPUs right [TS]

  no not DirectX for mac OS blah more in [TS]

  the chat if it I would be excited by [TS]

  that because it's an area where they are [TS]

  super behind and they've been paying [TS]

  attention to metal and you know like I [TS]

  don't I don't know that's I don't [TS]

  predict it but I would I would be super [TS]

  excited by that so I have a couple of [TS]

  stretch goals I mean first of all we [TS]

  should before we leave the the more [TS]

  plausible section we should also cover [TS]

  that I think the rumored iPad pro [TS]

  drawing tablet mode is realistic [TS]

  implausible for this year's release the [TS]

  loving that in with Mac OS instead of [TS]

  the iPad I suppose yeah it's really a [TS]

  Mac OS feature the the idea behind this [TS]

  feature as rumored is that the is that [TS]

  an iPad pro with a pencil could be [TS]

  attached and some I don't know if it's [TS]

  only going to be working over a wire or [TS]

  whether they can do it wirelessly but [TS]

  they are wirelessly hopefully but [TS]

  basically that can enter a mode where a [TS]

  Mac app can use the iPad and it's pencil [TS]

  as a stylus surface of some kind and we [TS]

  don't really know anything more than [TS]

  that or whether this is even in for this [TS]

  year or not but I think the way they [TS]

  would probably do this if they're going [TS]

  to do this would not just be that it [TS]

  would be like a second screen that you [TS]

  could just move windows on to no I think [TS]

  it would be more like the way they to [TS]

  the touch bar which is it would be a [TS]

  separate type of output display slash [TS]

  input display that apps would have to [TS]

  specifically write support for so they [TS]

  would specifically say like what would [TS]

  be shown on it and specifically receive [TS]

  the events from the pencil from it so it [TS]

  would if they do it that way I think [TS]

  it's a much nicer feature I think it's [TS]

  it's better it and it would have slower [TS]

  adoption if you have to wait for all the [TS]

  apps that that could benefit from this [TS]

  to integrate this this potential new API [TS]

  you know just just like the tux bar but [TS]

  I think that that if that works out that [TS]

  could be a way better way to do it [TS]

  and that's probably the way that they [TS]

  would do such a feature yeah like [TS]

  everyone comes talking about it as the [TS]

  the the single phrase for this feature [TS]

  is oh you can use your iPad as a Cintiq [TS]

  but a Cintiq behaves as essentially a [TS]

  monitor that you can draw and like it [TS]

  appears as a second monitor you can [TS]

  arrange it with the other monitor the [TS]

  full UI of your mat can be there you can [TS]

  drag the little menu bar down to it so [TS]

  that is actually your primary display [TS]

  but that's not how you just described [TS]

  the this feature working on the iPad [TS]

  that it wouldn't just because there are [TS]

  apps now you can get for your iPad to do [TS]

  this like Oh your iPad is a second [TS]

  screen from your Mac and now you can [TS]

  draw in your drawing app with a with the [TS]

  stylus because of course it's the second [TS]

  screen you have input this seems like a [TS]

  more tart the rumors of a more targeted [TS]

  interface like you said like the touch [TS]

  bar that is it specifically addressable [TS]

  by the applications it is not just like [TS]

  hey every application gets us free [TS]

  because it's just a second small screen [TS]

  which they could also do as a mode or [TS]

  whatever but to really to leverage there [TS]

  the capabilities of the you know the [TS]

  high refresh rate and the stylus input [TS]

  and all that stuff it seems to me that [TS]

  it has better solution to have apps [TS]

  support it specifically in the same way [TS]

  the support touch bar to be able to draw [TS]

  a UI over there and to be able to have [TS]

  the iPad handle a lot of the drawing you [TS]

  know the the local drawing to make it as [TS]

  responsive as we know the pencil can be [TS]

  in in the good applications having that [TS]

  collaborate with the mac app and and it [TS]

  could be good and it will make people's [TS]

  iPads you know more powerful and capable [TS]

  but not that I'm going to say this [TS]

  reminds me of the old world but I think [TS]

  of that arrangement and it seems cool [TS]

  and useful and a great way to leverage [TS]

  Apple's existing hardware with the [TS]

  clever software solution but then I [TS]

  think of the Microsoft Surface Studio [TS]

  sitting over there kind of glaring at me [TS]

  gone you know tapping its fingers going [TS]

  you know hello guys I don't know what [TS]

  you're doing over there with your [TS]

  multiple devices and your steampunk [TS]

  Windows But Here I am a giant screen [TS]

  touch me drawn me and put me up now [TS]

  anyway yeah I don't understand why this [TS]

  is something that people want like I [TS]

  mean for like artists and stuff I guess [TS]

  but why would a regular Schmo want their [TS]

  iPad Pro is like a Wacom tablet for [TS]

  their can [TS]

  yeah as far dhis but it mean in this way [TS]

  we're describing it yes totally for [TS]

  artists because Cintiq s-- are super [TS]

  expensive and i have one they're not [TS]

  that great like they're they're okay if [TS]

  you already have an ipad with a stylus [TS]

  and you like drawing on it but you also [TS]

  like adobe illustrator the full version [TS]

  of which does not or you know photoshop [TS]

  whatever doesn't ship for iOS just these [TS]

  cut-down versions this is interesting [TS]

  solution to interesting solution to the [TS]

  pro app problem to get more people to [TS]

  buy iPads to use with their macs that [TS]

  they might buy anyway but this pushes [TS]

  them over the edge i because if it [TS]

  doesn't work as a second monitor or like [TS]

  a Cintiq i don't see people buying it as [TS]

  a way to use your Mac through a stylus [TS]

  and again they're there iOS apps you can [TS]

  buy today to remotely use your Mac to [TS]

  use your iPad as a second screen to use [TS]

  your iPads as a you know as a Cintiq [TS]

  like device for your Mac presumably when [TS]

  Apple influenced that they will do it a [TS]

  better job because they have you know [TS]

  low-level access to all of that good [TS]

  stuff and so that's what people are [TS]

  waiting for it is narrow but like in [TS]

  terms of you know the the potential [TS]

  slash promised focus on pros both with [TS]

  iOS 11 and making iOS more capable on [TS]

  the big iPads and the Mac Pro this seems [TS]

  like a move that is aimed towards [TS]

  creative pros and app developers who [TS]

  think they can make a cool application [TS]

  with this capability and think they can [TS]

  sell it for a fair price on the App [TS]

  Store just seems to me like it would be [TS]

  a lot of investment for not a lot of [TS]

  return I don't know maybe I'm missing [TS]

  the boat not that much investment though [TS]

  like I said I feel like they're almost [TS]

  there with the implements a third [TS]

  parties can do it the plumbing must be [TS]

  there Apple's just going to do the [TS]

  better lower latency job of it and have [TS]

  an opinion about how it should be done [TS]

  you know in terms of api's and stuff [TS]

  like it I think it could be really cool [TS]

  too I mean if you think about you know [TS]

  obviously there's lots of artistic uses [TS]

  for this and you know but and I wouldn't [TS]

  use any oh you want to use that audio I [TS]

  see it coming well I obviously I would [TS]

  consider I would try that but I think [TS]

  there's a lot of areas of common tasks [TS]

  that people do that could benefit from [TS]

  being able to quickly alternate between [TS]

  pen input especially really good pen [TS]

  input like this like like the iPad pro [TS]

  good pen input and also a keyboard a [TS]

  mouse and all and to be able to kind of [TS]

  alternate between like you know having [TS]

  having that incredibly awesome pen thing [TS]

  that only has been available directly in [TS]

  iOS so far but also integrated with Mac [TS]

  workflows that could that could apply to [TS]

  lots of things that could that could be [TS]

  as simple as like if I'm working in [TS]

  Apple notes which I really like notes [TS]

  I've been using it more and more and I [TS]

  did have one problem a couple months ago [TS]

  where like one device just wouldn't sink [TS]

  and it just was stuck for a long time [TS]

  and I tried a bunch of crap and [TS]

  eventually I started sinking again and [TS]

  I've heard a few other people who have [TS]

  had similar problems some that's a [TS]

  little concerning I hope I could work [TS]

  her up a note that you must hunt down [TS]

  and expunge right exactly yes who knows [TS]

  but but like one of the things notes has [TS]

  is you can integrate doodles and [TS]

  drawings with the pencil and everything [TS]

  and so like it right now if I want a [TS]

  note to contain a drawing I have to go [TS]

  over to my iPad and add there and that [TS]

  but it's like if I'm working on my Mac [TS]

  that's kind of not convenient but if I [TS]

  was working you know in if I had this [TS]

  that and my iPad was on my desk I could [TS]

  just like reach over doodle something [TS]

  and then just put my hands right back on [TS]

  the mat keyboard and go right back to [TS]

  work on the Mac not have to wait for a [TS]

  sync to happen but up and down to the [TS]

  cloud and everything like I'd be I'd be [TS]

  working in the document right here you [TS]

  know stuff like that I think there's a [TS]

  lot of potential workflows you know [TS]

  whether it's basic things like doodling [TS]

  or annotation marking up documents [TS]

  there's so many different things that [TS]

  aren't just like freehand drawing and [TS]

  Photoshop where this could be really [TS]

  helpful not to mention the freehand [TS]

  drawing on Photoshop or even things like [TS]

  like if you're drawing something in [TS]

  Illustrator you know in a vector program [TS]

  where you're doing less freehand stuff [TS]

  and more kind of like drawing with with [TS]

  math and parameters but you do want to [TS]

  add a freehand element to something it's [TS]

  easy to just add that and then go back [TS]

  to your keyboard and mouse for all the [TS]

  precise stuff you know so that I think [TS]

  there's and this all might not happen [TS]

  because this all depends on lots of good [TS]

  high-quality third-party integration [TS]

  happening and that's always a crapshoot [TS]

  you never know what developers will take [TS]

  advantage of and how soon and how well [TS]

  but there's a lot of potential for this [TS]

  kind of feature so if it isn't a massive [TS]

  deal for Apple to add this if it's not [TS]

  like [TS]

  a huge three-year undertaking where they [TS]

  can do nothing else this would be nice [TS]

  to have yes and it's something that that [TS]

  you know it I think features that can [TS]

  really change the way people work on the [TS]

  Mac are hard to come by these days so I [TS]

  think when they come behind them there's [TS]

  there's actually a decent chance you [TS]

  know that as long as there's not massive [TS]

  downsides they actually might consider [TS]

  doing them so this I consider plausible [TS]

  and if they assume you know if they [TS]

  actually do it I think it could be [TS]

  really cool I haven't had a good Adobe [TS]

  Mac app demo it keynote in a really long [TS]

  time that's the old world gonna be nice [TS]

  to come back and I'm back to the old [TS]

  days and have have a Photoshop demo on a [TS]

  Mac granted with an iOS device fine yeah [TS]

  okay win some you lose I should run some [TS]

  filters and time them now I do have to [TS]

  stretch goals you had one for the Mac I [TS]

  have to because it goes back to my [TS]

  earlier question of like I don't know [TS]

  how much effort they put into the Mac [TS]

  this year like if they put in a good [TS]

  amount these are actually kind of [TS]

  plausible but that's you know with the [TS]

  Mac you never really know whether it's [TS]

  gonna be a not even a big year a [TS]

  medium-sized year or a small year let's [TS]

  be honest and so I think my number one [TS]

  stretch goal is the beginning of the [TS]

  iTunes replacement now I'm not sure [TS]

  greedy I know yeah I'm not sure it would [TS]

  be complete in one pass it would [TS]

  probably not be but I'm thinking we [TS]

  would probably start seeing apps with [TS]

  new names uh that like that you know [TS]

  maybe the idea of the iTunes yeah that [TS]

  the iTunes app would still exist but it [TS]

  would be like in utilities or you know [TS]

  buried somewhere and then so like if you [TS]

  plugged in an iPod okay you here's your [TS]

  ancient app for your ancient device that [TS]

  would be the iPod a second app called [TS]

  iPhone yeah the worst yeah but uh I [TS]

  think it's plausible this year not I I [TS]

  wouldn't say likely but plausible that [TS]

  we have an Apple music app on the Mac [TS]

  and what that is is up in the air that [TS]

  could be they could literally be like as [TS]

  the first version it could be a fork and [TS]

  rename of iTunes with just the music [TS]

  stuff enabled and everything else [TS]

  stripped out and mask everything out all [TS]

  the [TS]

  code is still there the preference [TS]

  dialogue is still motile but yeah it's [TS]

  just about music it's an if deaf at the [TS]

  top so it could be as simple as that or [TS]

  it could be a total from scratch app [TS]

  that only does Apple music so it would [TS]

  only have the app music streaming [TS]

  service it would not have local library [TS]

  playback or even the iTunes Store [TS]

  because that's not Apple music that's [TS]

  different and there's a report of the [TS]

  iOS Apple music app don't forget that [TS]

  who use UX kit for everything right it's [TS]

  like motor was all over again honestly [TS]

  that I had on my list I had because the [TS]

  flick because if you think about it like [TS]

  you know one of the reasons why why it [TS]

  would be hard to do this all in one year [TS]

  is that if they don't want to just be [TS]

  Apple music if they want it to be Apple [TS]

  music plus local library support plus [TS]

  store support they would probably do one [TS]

  of those weird like iOS port kind of [TS]

  apps to the Mac where it would be kind [TS]

  of weirdly iOS see maybe it would use us [TS]

  cater maybe it would use its own version [TS]

  of that because that might be for that [TS]

  for the photos team who knows it would [TS]

  be weirdly limited it wouldn't feel very [TS]

  Mac like but you know it could be an [TS]

  apple music app and I think that goes [TS]

  along with you know obviously they've [TS]

  had like a video app or a TV for the Mac [TS]

  they'd have the TV app obviously uh I [TS]

  don't think of that anyway and then also [TS]

  the Apple the iTunes podcasts were [TS]

  recently renamed to Apple podcasts so [TS]

  maybe there'd be an Apple podcast app on [TS]

  the Mac so this stuff this stuff all [TS]

  makes sense like this it's very [TS]

  aggressive to have all this you know [TS]

  plan for this year which is why this was [TS]

  like my stretch goal I don't I don't [TS]

  again I wouldn't say it's likely but I [TS]

  do think it's plausible and I do think [TS]

  that it is it is something they will get [TS]

  to I just don't know when sometimes I [TS]

  think about the sort of concentrated [TS]

  political capital that must be in the [TS]

  iTunes Team app is that like there's got [TS]

  to be a lot of important people [TS]

  associated with their product at the [TS]

  high and low levels at various times in [TS]

  Apple's history it was arguably the most [TS]

  important product that Apple was [TS]

  currently making it ever made like a [TS]

  heyday of the iPod and everything like [TS]

  iTunes was where it was all happening [TS]

  and that it it managed to hitch a ride [TS]

  on the iPhone rocket a little bit but [TS]

  like the fact that it has remained so [TS]

  long and that every year it gets these [TS]

  it gets so much more attention than than [TS]

  the improvements that are actually made [TS]

  by this attention seem to warrant like [TS]

  year after year oh we've moved stuff [TS]

  around and we've changed the UI but [TS]

  fundamentally have not fixed this [TS]

  application it's like there must be [TS]

  people working on it and every year they [TS]

  have new things that they do and you [TS]

  know everything like not small things [TS]

  they have big new ideas about how the UI [TS]

  can be different and apparently this [TS]

  year they think the mini players should [TS]

  be not so many anymore and it's just [TS]

  always something but the preference [TS]

  dialogue is still modal and it's still [TS]

  old iTunes you just like but what is [TS]

  there must be such a concentration of [TS]

  power there that they that that like at [TS]

  power and like the power to make these [TS]

  people continue to add features combined [TS]

  with the neglect to say we don't care [TS]

  enough to make you do all those things [TS]

  that marketers have said that are [TS]

  inevitable but like we always wait for [TS]

  the first one to come so the only one of [TS]

  those things I believe is that an Apple [TS]

  music app is the closest to not being a [TS]

  stretch goal but all those other things [TS]

  like I don't I don't even know well you [TS]

  know it's it's I don't really understand [TS]

  how we could have somebody with a media [TS]

  app or a group of people with media pay [TS]

  so little attention to the Mac after [TS]

  years imagine imagine being in a [TS]

  position where you you have a media app [TS]

  and you just completely ignore the Mac I [TS]

  mean Marco how could one ever get in [TS]

  that position what would what would [TS]

  their their headspace have to be to just [TS]

  completely neglect the Mac for a media [TS]

  based Apple has people who know Africa [TS]

  though like that is key like that I clap [TS]

  kid I'm scared it's not like you I kid [TS]

  you could have stopped that sentence [TS]

  that Apple has people yeah Apple has a [TS]

  staff of more than one developer but [TS]

  haven't you heard you can charge way [TS]

  more for your Mac app oh yeah yeah once [TS]

  you ask the other Mac podcast players [TS]

  how well they're doing booming Marty see [TS]

  what that case you will have to pull a [TS]

  Twitter if ik for the Mac and just you [TS]

  know spend an obscene amount of money [TS]

  for his copy yeah well just be told I [TS]

  actually don't really need it as much [TS]

  anymore because I've just been using my [TS]

  air pods to connect to whatever device I [TS]

  need to connect to so when I listen to [TS]

  podcasts I connect to my phone but in [TS]

  principle we have to all agree that [TS]

  there is some amount of humor to mark [TS]

  lamenting iTunes as overcast for the Mac [TS]

  is simply a URL not much because again [TS]

  Marco is not the world's largest [TS]

  corporation so that in mind they're fair [TS]

  now if you want to talk about stretch [TS]

  goals I have the mother of all stretch [TS]

  goals this this is probably a macro know [TS]

  this I think I think the Mac Pro being [TS]

  released is more likely than this but I [TS]

  have it on here she's going to get a [TS]

  realm of fantasy now my number two [TS]

  stretch goal my final stretch goal for [TS]

  Mac OS is significant improvements to [TS]

  the Mac App Store and sandbox ok here's [TS]

  okay although ok so just brief [TS]

  background so both the Mac App Store and [TS]

  sandboxing launched in 2011 it was I had [TS]

  to look it up to so long ago 2011 they [TS]

  had a ton of shortcomings it was really [TS]

  like a they were both this both the App [TS]

  Store and sandboxing were really very [TS]

  very rough one-point O's and they have [TS]

  been completely untouched since they [TS]

  have been a rough 1.0 for 6 years and [TS]

  and so I actually did hear rumblings of [TS]

  what little while back that there was an [TS]

  effort to actually rewrite the Mac App [TS]

  Store app and to really improve it and [TS]

  we've seen you know ever since Phil took [TS]

  over the App Store there really has been [TS]

  substantial progress and there were some [TS]

  before that but they like now there's a [TS]

  lot of progress in the App Store's and I [TS]

  still think this is a very long shot for [TS]

  this year I do think it is probably [TS]

  finally on the roadmap I think somebody [TS]

  is finally working on this the only [TS]

  question is when it comes out are they [TS]

  racing the iTunes replacement team those [TS]

  two teams I mean honestly the Mac App [TS]

  star has a long way to go before it [TS]

  before it earns the stripes that iTunes [TS]

  have in terms of being the crusty old [TS]

  application that you can't get rid of on [TS]

  the system because it's essential but [TS]

  that is I mean I groves I guess iTunes [TS]

  doesn't prove like I left before but [TS]

  does it I think I think I mean the Mac [TS]

  App Store app has been improved in ways [TS]

  that are not visible to users like I [TS]

  believe [TS]

  they have addressed reliability under [TS]

  the covers to make it not as awful as it [TS]

  was they haven't I mean it is it is [TS]

  still buggy [TS]

  I totally granted that but I have to [TS]

  think that there has even if it's just [TS]

  messing with the demons that are [TS]

  underlying the thing because the Mac App [TS]

  Store is this strange application like [TS]

  so many of these cloud powered things [TS]

  where it's it's really just a thin a [TS]

  partially web-based UI on top of a bunch [TS]

  of persistent processes that are running [TS]

  whether the App Store is launched or not [TS]

  which is why you can click the update' [TS]

  thing to update your things or install [TS]

  an application then quit the Mac App [TS]

  Store app and your installation proceeds [TS]

  because it's not your app it's doing [TS]

  it's just communicating to background [TS]

  daemons and I feel like that also why [TS]

  you click that update button just [TS]

  nothing happens yeah well it's just [TS]

  rejection happens right if but I think [TS]

  the reliability of actually [TS]

  communicating to the background daemons [TS]

  and telling them to do their thing has [TS]

  improved over time but I think it is [TS]

  plausible for them to do a do an iTunes [TS]

  style refresh where you aren't [TS]

  fundamentally changing the nature of the [TS]

  application in any way but you moved a [TS]

  bunch of crap around and recolored some [TS]

  things right or maybe you add tab [TS]

  support and just say look significant [TS]

  improvements the Mac App Store which I [TS]

  think does not fall into the category of [TS]

  significant as far as I'm concerned [TS]

  because like I said it's an iTunes I'll [TS]

  update where it visually looks different [TS]

  people think it's the new Mac App Store [TS]

  but fundamentally it is still the same [TS]

  demons and the same weird web base you [TS]

  are communicating with it and they just [TS]

  added tab bar support or some crap like [TS]

  that I could see them doing that but I I [TS]

  am 100% willing to believe that the [TS]

  project is is under way somewhere to [TS]

  massively improve the Mac App Store by [TS]

  making a new application with the same [TS]

  name that works way better I'm sure it's [TS]

  in progress but I will be flabbergasted [TS]

  if we see it this year I thought like my [TS]

  open jail thing is even more far-fetched [TS]

  though probably yes we were sponsored [TS]

  this week by Casper an obsessively [TS]

  engineered mattress at a shockingly fair [TS]

  price go to Casper comm slash ATP and [TS]

  use code ATP for 50 dollars towards your [TS]

  mattress the mattress industry has for [TS]

  so long force people to pay ridiculous [TS]

  markups for mattresses that you can you [TS]

  know lie on for five minutes at a [TS]

  mattress store and then you know pay [TS]

  extra to have it shipped to your house [TS]

  and everything and then you're pretty [TS]

  much stuck with it after that [TS]

  Kasper has revolutionized all this they [TS]

  offer one perfect mattress this is an [TS]

  award-winning mattress with over 4.8 [TS]

  stars over 20,000 reviews based on a [TS]

  Casper Amazon and Google reviews so far [TS]

  this is quickly becoming the Internet's [TS]

  favorite mattress and here's why it has [TS]

  a remarkably small box so it's very [TS]

  practical to get you can get it up [TS]

  narrow stairs if you if you need to and [TS]

  they of course also offer adaptive [TS]

  pillows and soft breathable sheets if [TS]

  you want those and this mattress the the [TS]

  in-house engineers at Casper spent [TS]

  thousands of hours developing it with [TS]

  supportive memory foams for a sleep [TS]

  service with just the right sink and [TS]

  just the right bounce and a breathable [TS]

  design to sleep cool throughout the [TS]

  night and people love it too because not [TS]

  only is it comfortable but it's [TS]

  completely risk-free they have free [TS]

  delivery and free returns with a 100 [TS]

  night home trial if you don't love it [TS]

  within a hundred nights it's over three [TS]

  months of sleeping on it they will [TS]

  refund you completely and arrange for it [TS]

  to be picked up at your house they [TS]

  understand the importance of actually [TS]

  sleeping on it not just for five seconds [TS]

  in a store but actually living with it [TS]

  and sleeping with it and seeing how it [TS]

  works for you because you're gonna be [TS]

  spending a third of your life on your [TS]

  mattress so I highly suggest you check [TS]

  out Casper they have free shipping and [TS]

  returns to the US and Canada this is [TS]

  designed developed and assembled in the [TS]

  USA and you can get $50 towards any [TS]

  mattress purchase by visiting Casper [TS]

  comm slash ATP and using code ATP terms [TS]

  and conditions do apply once again [TS]

  Casper comm slash ATP and code ATP for [TS]

  $50 towards your mattress thank you very [TS]

  much to Casper for sponsoring our show [TS]

  ah it's weird because both for iOS Mac [TS]

  OS there's nothing I can think of right [TS]

  now that I'm like oh man [TS]

  I can't imagine them not delivering [TS]

  blank I feel like and I think Marco had [TS]

  talked about this a lot last year that [TS]

  that a lot of the low-hanging fruit has [TS]

  been plucked and so at this point like [TS]

  what do we really want and what it comes [TS]

  down for both for me is more about [TS]

  hardware than software and WDC in [TS]

  the last few years has not really been a [TS]

  hardware event but that being said what [TS]

  do we want from max this year and I can [TS]

  tell you I want a MacBook adorable [TS]

  update that's all I want in the world [TS]

  please can I have a MacBook adorable [TS]

  update yeah I think the the hardware [TS]

  rumors are unusually strong this year [TS]

  and usually in in previous years you are [TS]

  right that WBC is almost always a no [TS]

  Hardware event but usually in previous [TS]

  years when the Hardware rumors would [TS]

  start up Apple would shut them down with [TS]

  a carefully placed controlled leak so [TS]

  that there would be some kind of [TS]

  reliable report from the Wall Street [TS]

  Journal or something like that saying [TS]

  there's definitely not going to be new [TS]

  hardware announced as they saw for focus [TS]

  event and that hasn't happened this year [TS]

  there's a lot of hardware noise and [TS]

  there's been no denial like that or no [TS]

  expectations setting statement like that [TS]

  anywhere so I'm guessing that you know [TS]

  there is some fire under the smoke the [TS]

  only question is which of the hardware [TS]

  rumors are actually scheduled to to to [TS]

  come out this this time like now instead [TS]

  of the fall or some other time [TS]

  and and you know Apple schedule-wise I [TS]

  don't expect there to be an event in [TS]

  mid-july or anything like it's you know [TS]

  the hardware is going to either come out [TS]

  or it's either going to be announced [TS]

  when it ships is a different story [TS]

  but it's either going to be announced [TS]

  Monday or in September or October you [TS]

  know I wouldn't expect anything anything [TS]

  in the meantime there so I would say the [TS]

  the rumors this time are a little over [TS]

  the place it's the rumors basically that [TS]

  everything is getting update but the the [TS]

  ones the seem most plausible and most [TS]

  concentrated are the the pretty much [TS]

  every modern MacBook and MacBook Pro so [TS]

  the 12-inch and then the the modern [TS]

  generation of 13 and 15 inch MacBook [TS]

  Pros are all rumored to get KB Lake [TS]

  Intel CPU of updates that that would be [TS]

  nice it is as far as I know all of these [TS]

  parts are available like they're from [TS]

  Intel I don't think we're waiting on any [TS]

  on any chips being available or anything [TS]

  like that I think it is therefore [TS]

  plausible for all these things to get [TS]

  these these updates there are some [TS]

  people who are saying no it's way too [TS]

  soon but [TS]

  the fact is these all came out in [TS]

  October they were already late even then [TS]

  and you know going like nine months it [TS]

  between updates is not unheard of they [TS]

  used to do things like that all the time [TS]

  when new CPUs came out faster and Apple [TS]

  would get on top of them faster so that [TS]

  that is a thing that happens sometimes [TS]

  not not often but sometimes so it is [TS]

  totally plausible for them to update [TS]

  these things so quote soon and if they [TS]

  do you know everyone has this like wish [TS]

  list of things they want to be changed [TS]

  with the new Mac approach with us [TS]

  recently so I won't go too far into it [TS]

  basically I would expect no major [TS]

  external changes I wouldn't expect [TS]

  different ports or more ports or the [TS]

  return of an SD card reader or anything [TS]

  that people want that was removed I [TS]

  would not expect any external changes [TS]

  whatsoever if they have revised the [TS]

  keyboard to fix the issues that I've [TS]

  been complaining about with reliability [TS]

  especially with heat I think if they fix [TS]

  that they won't say so it'll be a silent [TS]

  update the one area that I think they [TS]

  might hit like the air the main areas of [TS]

  complaints well to one I think it is it [TS]

  is possible they will offer a 32 gig ram [TS]

  option on the 15 inch even though it [TS]

  would I think it still would need to use [TS]

  the higher battery draw Ram [TS]

  but I don't think the battery dry like I [TS]

  have looked into the defined details of [TS]

  this I'm out of time really qualified [TS]

  but the difference between the super low [TS]

  power ram and the kind of low-power ram [TS]

  would probably only make maybe like a 5% [TS]

  difference to battery life off the top [TS]

  of my head like that's probably that's [TS]

  probably the ballpark we're talking [TS]

  about here and it it is it makes total [TS]

  sense why Apple would not want that to [TS]

  be on all of the MacBook Pros of a [TS]

  certain size but it would not surprise [TS]

  me at all if they have that as an option [TS]

  so like if you want to trade 5% of your [TS]

  battery life for 32 gigs of ram fine you [TS]

  know that's that's within the realm of [TS]

  Apple component options they've offered [TS]

  before that's within the realm of [TS]

  different CPU options or things like [TS]

  whether you get the discrete GPU or it [TS]

  or integrated only on certain models [TS]

  that use offer that would be great if [TS]

  they come by [TS]

  9:32 get Graham option with the option [TS]

  for for no discrete GPU I don't think [TS]

  they will but that would be a way to [TS]

  offset it maybe in future of models [TS]

  right and that's one thing too I also do [TS]

  think I think are the GPUs in KB like [TS]

  powerful enough to do an integrated only [TS]

  15-inch now I know because with skylake [TS]

  there was a thing we're basically like [TS]

  yeah Intel's integrated GPUs for that [TS]

  generation sucked and so they were [TS]

  appleton probably won't think they were [TS]

  good enough I think KB like they've [TS]

  improved them and so it would so one of [TS]

  the biggest complaints about the new map [TS]

  of pros is that they've been more [TS]

  expensive in the old ones so I think [TS]

  Apple will try to address this in some [TS]

  small way with not necessarily price [TS]

  drops but lower SPECT entry prices for [TS]

  things so the 15-inch would probably be [TS]

  the first one to get such a thing maybe [TS]

  even the only one to get a meaningful [TS]

  lower price but maybe they could do a [TS]

  discrete or sorry an integrated GPU only [TS]

  15-inch like they used to do before [TS]

  which I've always been a big fan of [TS]

  because the battery life is usually [TS]

  substantially better and more consistent [TS]

  and more controllable and so integrated [TS]

  only 15-inch I do not expect a touch bar [TS]

  less like 15-inch escape I don't expect [TS]

  that at all [TS]

  maybe maybe later like in a couple years [TS]

  probably not soon but I do think having [TS]

  a cheaper entry level configuration is [TS]

  likely probably I GPU only and then also [TS]

  a 32 gig option on the high end and with [TS]

  no other changes to the lineup I suspect [TS]

  that will address a lot of people's [TS]

  concerns it'll it'll really turn around [TS]

  the discussion on these on whether [TS]

  they're pro or not if anyone still [TS]

  having the discussion like I think Apple [TS]

  wanted to hit that and I think they I [TS]

  think they will in these two ways if it [TS]

  it might have good PR but looking at [TS]

  those actual changes I think they [TS]

  actually don't address that many of the [TS]

  problems because it's like it's [TS]

  perception like oh we'll lower the entry [TS]

  price but if you get the 15-inch MacBook [TS]

  Pro you want it's still really expensive [TS]

  and will add 32 gigs of ram but it's not [TS]

  like we're making things that are adding [TS]

  more battery so you're sacrificing for [TS]

  it and you still have to get it read GPU [TS]

  like it is it is superficially making [TS]

  changes in the direction that people [TS]

  want but it doesn't fundamentally change [TS]

  the trade-offs of these [TS]

  means make it just kind of it's like [TS]

  better pressed except for the 32 which [TS]

  is a capability they didn't have before [TS]

  and so you know kudos for that like that [TS]

  that's that's going to be mostly a win [TS]

  but I would still you know I would still [TS]

  be awaiting an actual revision that [TS]

  reimagines these machines with with the [TS]

  new with the new demands of the market [TS]

  in mind like with it but what what the [TS]

  cranky part of the market has been [TS]

  saying about these like make a new set [TS]

  of machines that take that into account [TS]

  and I and for the MacBook adorable I [TS]

  know Casey just wants them to revise it [TS]

  and like whatever they revise it and [TS]

  he'll get it yeah I'm going to put a 25% [TS]

  chance it's not even gonna be a stretch [TS]

  oh but I would say like I think it is [TS]

  plausible that there can be another USB [TS]

  port on that sucker not 50% 25% chance [TS]

  because they know it's the thing that [TS]

  people want they're gonna do it [TS]

  eventually I think this is probably not [TS]

  the year to do it it's just like oh [TS]

  let's just do an internal swap kay be [TS]

  like blah blah blah but yeah just know [TS]

  I'm that's that's my that's my mac [TS]

  stretc goal aside from the Mac Pro stuff [TS]

  which we'll get to in a second that's my [TS]

  mac stretc goal that MacBook adorable if [TS]

  it's revised third eye [TS]

  I have a vision in my head of Phil [TS]

  Schiller's understated way that he would [TS]

  mention that I wish I could - Phil sure [TS]

  like the question would be like and [TS]

  we've got another USB port around the [TS]

  side they're not nice you know he would [TS]

  say that you know he would like [TS]

  undersell it right he would he would [TS]

  just like go through the slides get me [TS]

  not dwell on it too long I'm ready for [TS]

  that to happen but Casey will be happy [TS]

  no matter what he just wants he just [TS]

  wants an internals revision all I want [TS]

  is to give up all my money really why is [TS]

  that really so exciting when you're like [TS]

  yes they came out and we can order them [TS]

  and you get them and you key starts [TS]

  sticking it'll boy the shows we'll get [TS]

  out of that no because I won't be able [TS]

  to bring it up I won't be able to bring [TS]

  it up because if I do then we're gonna [TS]

  tell when you type in chatting there's [TS]

  no ease in your text anymore there's [TS]

  that if I bring it up then I have to [TS]

  admit hashtag marker was right and if we [TS]

  know anything about me we know that I [TS]

  don't like to do that he doesn't have a [TS]

  hashtag he's got a broken keyboard yeah [TS]

  there's the hash symbol doesn't work I [TS]

  would only say mark was right because my [TS]

  Oh key would be stuck down oh my god [TS]

  that's a sterically [TS]

  quis Marcus yep all right so what about [TS]

  the Mac Pro can we just get it over with [TS]

  I don't have a drink handy so let's make [TS]

  it quick I might take on the Mac Pro is [TS]

  they still keep people hearing they go [TS]

  they're gonna tease the Mac Pro I was [TS]

  like what what can they even do i I [TS]

  don't I don't need anything from them [TS]

  I'm patient I'm content to wait we [TS]

  already had our Mac Pro moment we had [TS]

  our shows about it there was a [TS]

  roundtable things were discussed [TS]

  apologies were made like I think [TS]

  everything is fine there if they want to [TS]

  tease something get us deciding I'm not [TS]

  I'm not you know I'm not a monster I'm [TS]

  not I don't object to being teased I [TS]

  just have a hard time believing oh my [TS]

  goodness I just have a hard time [TS]

  believing that there is anything worth [TS]

  teasing at this point like the best [TS]

  accomplices I have a logo I honestly at [TS]

  this point I hope I don't have a case [TS]

  design that they can tease I hope they [TS]

  haven't finalized that yet because I [TS]

  want them to do a really good job like I [TS]

  said I'm what I don't want them to rush [TS]

  to market with a box with a bunch of [TS]

  stuff in it I want it to be cool in all [TS]

  the ways that cool mat can be cool and I [TS]

  willing to wait a couple extra months [TS]

  for that right I have a hard time [TS]

  believing they have a case they could [TS]

  show hard to believing they would show [TS]

  the case I'm Marco pointed out when [TS]

  we're talking about this thing and slack [TS]

  before I pointed out like well they [TS]

  teased the 2013 Mac Pro but I feel like [TS]

  that was practically a finished machine [TS]

  i granted did a ship for months [TS]

  but they knew the design they knew [TS]

  everything was going into it like this [TS]

  was there was nothing that wasn't like a [TS]

  we're going to show you the case design [TS]

  of our work in progress like that was [TS]

  the sh machine that shipped like those [TS]

  everything about it right [TS]

  and they're not at that point within my [TS]

  prime admin so if they want to show a [TS]

  logo and a tone poem kind of video like [TS]

  the little dots connecting ios7 things [TS]

  they showed 700 times sure but I don't [TS]

  expect anything and I won't be mad if I [TS]

  get nothing [TS]

  yeah I'm with you on on all that [TS]

  basically I I really think it's it's [TS]

  very very soon to be showing anything [TS]

  meaningful it would be nice if they did [TS]

  but I would I would put the likelihood [TS]

  fairly low on that but I do think that [TS]

  it's worth asking about the iMac Pro [TS]

  they in that the Mac Pro ahead in the [TS]

  Mac section in the notes I had laptops [TS]

  none that said desktops ha [TS]

  remember at mike's desktops but the iMac [TS]

  is overdue for an update and they [TS]

  confirmed the existence of pro [TS]

  configurations of the iMac during that [TS]

  press briefing and and those I believed [TS]

  I believe it said those were for this [TS]

  year so so the you know the mapper they [TS]

  said not this year the iMac I think they [TS]

  specifically said this year like item so [TS]

  also right and so it's it you know it's [TS]

  either now or the fall event basically [TS]

  is when these are when these are likely [TS]

  to be happening I am still incredibly [TS]

  curious to to learn what is a pro [TS]

  configuration of an iMac and how does [TS]

  that differ from the Mac Pro and like [TS]

  how does this product not make either [TS]

  the other configuration of the iMac or [TS]

  the Mac Pro very redundant [TS]

  like where what is this middle ground [TS]

  there are things they could do there but [TS]

  they're all kind of weird and obscure [TS]

  like high end Intel CPUs and maybe like [TS]

  one or two Mac Pro features but I'm [TS]

  slightly better GPUs like yeah like I [TS]

  don't know that's why it's it sounds [TS]

  that that's why I'm incredibly curious [TS]

  about what the iMac Pro is and and what [TS]

  makes it different from the iMac and the [TS]

  Mac Pro I think the joke I made and it's [TS]

  likely there was pinstripe but now that [TS]

  I think about it [TS]

  Kasey's matte black iPhone put that [TS]

  finish on the iMac make no other changes [TS]

  called the iMac Pro people but they're [TS]

  your high profile that is possible that [TS]

  the IMAX could come out this you know [TS]

  this event but I think it feels it's [TS]

  weird it feels late for the regular iMac [TS]

  but it feels a little early for the iMac [TS]

  Pro depending on what they're putting in [TS]

  it so I would say that's more likely to [TS]

  be pushed to the fall event and and [TS]

  there's also there is this rumor that [TS]

  the MacBook Air would be updated with no [TS]

  changes other than it would get modern [TS]

  guts and I think it's unspecified [TS]

  whether that means sky like receive a [TS]

  low same old TN screen but modern guts [TS]

  right and that actually sounds [TS]

  incredibly plausible to me because the [TS]

  it because Intel at some point is going [TS]

  to stop making whatever ancient CPUs it [TS]

  has that point is probably soon so [TS]

  they're gonna have to stop like like [TS]

  they're gonna have to like finally put [TS]

  something else in II can that screen [TS]

  manufacture stop making that screen [TS]

  clean so we can get [TS]

  there yeah and and yeah and if if they [TS]

  would do such a thing I definitely think [TS]

  that I agree with the rest of the [TS]

  predictions I've heard which is that it [TS]

  will not be mentioned it would it would [TS]

  probably it would be barely indicated [TS]

  even on the website there there might be [TS]

  able yellow new tag on it right yeah at [TS]

  best like I think that would be the only [TS]

  change like I wouldn't expect a retina I [TS]

  wouldn't expect USBC I would expect no [TS]

  other modernization of this platform [TS]

  except skylight guts or even or KB Lake [TS]

  but probably it probably even skylight [TS]

  cuz like they don't even want to be too [TS]

  modern with what they put it so yeah [TS]

  that III would not expect big things [TS]

  they're just a very basic update and if [TS]

  you are a fan of the ancient macbook air [TS]

  platform that actually would be a pretty [TS]

  nice computer if you don't care about [TS]

  anything modern or retina you know you [TS]

  don't have eyes yeah right yeah exactly [TS]

  but like like imagine if they don't [TS]

  actually change the case size or the [TS]

  battery size that's going to get [TS]

  incredible battery life yeah that's not [TS]

  like it's the danger of that thing the [TS]

  longer you keep it around the more [TS]

  people realize you know if they just put [TS]

  a Retina screen on this thing it would [TS]

  be the baby would be Apple's [TS]

  best-selling laptop again don't tell [TS]

  anybody [TS]

  we wanted to buy these other things for [TS]

  way more money well the sad part is it [TS]

  probably still as Apple's best-selling [TS]

  laptop yeah but you know I mean like it [TS]

  would be that it would be the one that [TS]

  we back when we were all recommending [TS]

  13-inch MacBook Air is like yeah default [TS]

  recommendation right that would be in [TS]

  those times again all right what do we [TS]

  think about the iPad remember you just [TS]

  skipped over the Mac Mini let's just say [TS]

  no updates that seriously an option in [TS]

  there yeah here's the problem like all [TS]

  the stuff we've gone through so many [TS]

  things were like oh maybe or they could [TS]

  do this but they can't there's not [TS]

  enough time in the keynote for all this [TS]

  right so well but it's so like you know [TS]

  the Mac books I guarantee you we just [TS]

  spent more time talking about the [TS]

  MacBook Pros and they will ya know they [TS]

  would they wouldn't mention that but [TS]

  like all even just those the stuff that [TS]

  we have mentioned like this there's only [TS]

  so much time they get a lot of stuff to [TS]

  cover whether or not there's a Siri tube [TS]

  thing I just feel like this is we've [TS]

  overstuffed the thing with uh with with [TS]

  things that we think they're over fifty [TS]

  percent chance of being mentioned in the [TS]

  key [TS]

  already yeah and keep in mind also that [TS]

  the keynote is going to also have a ton [TS]

  of time consumed by things like retail [TS]

  updates like and like on the talk show [TS]

  Gruber endowment respectively like maybe [TS]

  there maybe this is when they announced [TS]

  AB major retail thing and then maybe [TS]

  they have angel Aaron's out on stage and [TS]

  like that all sounds very plausible [TS]

  there's probably also going to be some [TS]

  kind of you know Jeff Williams like [TS]

  social medical environmental good [TS]

  initiative something like that like so [TS]

  it's going to be time with that and it's [TS]

  going to be demos of any new stuff they [TS]

  have and there's gonna there's gonna be [TS]

  all these all these segments that will [TS]

  take up a lot of time and so the the [TS]

  stuff we're talking about is going to be [TS]

  squeezed into little like intermediate [TS]

  sections between it all so like they [TS]

  we're going to sit here spending two and [TS]

  a half hours on this but you know [TS]

  they're going to spend 20 minutes on on [TS]

  what we're talking about here for two [TS]

  and a half hours so I think that if they [TS]

  have a lot of announcements that I think [TS]

  what they'll do is they'll end up [TS]

  squeezing out the the less tech focused [TS]

  things because in engineers where they [TS]

  have a lot of those especially if it's [TS]

  tied to one of the tech announcements [TS]

  fine but not not that they feel like [TS]

  filler but you don't have the luxury of [TS]

  an extended Stegman about you know [TS]

  health monitoring thing or whatever [TS]

  right unless it's tied to oh and by the [TS]

  way here's the new Apple watch with a [TS]

  glucose measuring thing like that's the [TS]

  only time you get to have that segment [TS]

  or if you have a keynote it doesn't have [TS]

  a lot of stuff in it then it needs some [TS]

  time to fail they'll do that but if [TS]

  anything close to what we've gone [TS]

  through is there they're going to have [TS]

  to be super efficient to be like we got [TS]

  a lot of stuff to get to there's this is [TS]

  this like that's that's what you know [TS]

  for the Tim Cook's little thing where he [TS]

  comes out instead of stuff I expect his [TS]

  spiel to be we've you know we've got a [TS]

  jam-packed thing we have a lot of stuff [TS]

  to get to he always says that but like [TS]

  to actually mean it or emphasize it's [TS]

  slightly more before he gets off stage [TS]

  and the parade of other executives come [TS]

  out alright so any thoughts on iPad [TS]

  hardware so my prediction is that this [TS]

  is this year's iPad event I don't think [TS]

  there's going to be iPads in the fall I [TS]

  think this is the iPad event for the [TS]

  year because it goes in with all the all [TS]

  the software advances a third that [TS]

  they're announcing and there's so much [TS]

  time left in makino you might as well [TS]

  write exactly as like a shove in there [TS]

  on you know I think the the incredible [TS]

  rumors [TS]

  rumors [TS]

  we'll be strong rumors about this 10.5 [TS]

  inch or whatever it is ten point [TS]

  whatever inch iPad being basically the [TS]

  new the new 10 inch class size just [TS]

  bigger screen roughly same body shape [TS]

  and size that is so incredibly strongly [TS]

  rumored it's very likely to be true I [TS]

  think what we see basically is the new [TS]

  10.5 is the new high-end iPad pro I [TS]

  think the nine point seven goes [TS]

  basically unchanged and just has its [TS]

  price dropped a little bit because if [TS]

  you look now in the lineup we mentioned [TS]

  a couple episodes ago there's a massive [TS]

  price gap between the new cheap nine [TS]

  point seven inch iPad and the iPad pro [TS]

  and that and like the nine point seven [TS]

  it's 329 to 600 it like that's the price [TS]

  jump there it's a huge price jump so [TS]

  something's up like that seems like a [TS]

  temporary thing that we're waiting to be [TS]

  filled in with that gap by Sept by other [TS]

  things or by changes so I'm guessing [TS]

  basically the existing nine point seven [TS]

  get dropped in price probably a hundred [TS]

  bucks you know so it's not going to [TS]

  close the entire gap or it's not going [TS]

  to come all the way down to like 400 or [TS]

  anything but you know it'll go from 600 [TS]

  to 530 a price that's my best guess [TS]

  there so you have the 329 base one you [TS]

  have 500 for the iPad pro nobody cares [TS]

  the iPad Mini anymore sorry Casey and [TS]

  then the new ten point whatever will be [TS]

  600 that's my best guess the question [TS]

  one question I have though is the twelve [TS]

  point nine dead I think there's a very [TS]

  strong chance of this I think there's a [TS]

  very strong chance the twelve point nine [TS]

  gets no update and is basically left for [TS]

  dead similar to the menu we'll never [TS]

  hear the end of that uncertain bother [TS]

  podcasts I know well no they're all [TS]

  going to switch to the ten point [TS]

  whatever because it's going to be the [TS]

  same screen resolution in a smaller body [TS]

  because they all have nine point seven [TS]

  because they're better all the twelve [TS]

  point nine users like that are like like [TS]

  at like I mic and fatigue she like they [TS]

  all also bought nine point seven s and [TS]

  in many ways liked them better because [TS]

  the nine point seven is a way better [TS]

  size to actually hold [TS]

  I kind of hope they kill the 12.9 and [TS]

  make an even bigger one because you know [TS]

  I want bigger I know you want that but [TS]

  that's a different thing though like I [TS]

  think what what what I noticed with the [TS]

  12.9 and part of this is because I [TS]

  actually did resell the one the one that [TS]

  I bought at it met a substantial loss [TS]

  what I most what 12.9 is that very [TS]

  quickly after release it was being [TS]

  indefinitely discounted by a large [TS]

  amount of money it places like Best Buy [TS]

  and Target and Apple does this sometimes [TS]

  to kind of unload things at lower prices [TS]

  that aren't selling very well like Apple [TS]

  won't didn't want the PR maybe of [TS]

  dropping the price so soon but it was [TS]

  within a very short time of release that [TS]

  these other retailers that work closely [TS]

  with Apple and sell very large volumes [TS]

  were suddenly able to sell these things [TS]

  at like a hundred and fifty dollars [TS]

  below retail or $200 below retail and [TS]

  this wasn't like a temporary weekend [TS]

  sale it was like this was just kind of [TS]

  the new price and it seemed like there [TS]

  was quite a fire sale going on on the [TS]

  12.9 very soon after its release that [TS]

  never stopped so I'm guessing it did not [TS]

  sell to apples expectations and I and I [TS]

  really think that there's a very good [TS]

  chance that they that if they're able to [TS]

  cram in the functionality of the 12:9 [TS]

  into something with that 10.5 inch [TS]

  screen into a nine point seven inch [TS]

  style body which i will which they watch [TS]

  yeah which all the rumors say that [TS]

  that's exactly what they've done I'm [TS]

  guessing that the twelve point nine is [TS]

  not long for this world because oh but [TS]

  you got to remember Tim Cook's Apple all [TS]

  that means is they'll just keep selling [TS]

  it all right right but but what I'm [TS]

  saying is I bet it doesn't get an update [TS]

  but but it's more than that though right [TS]

  because even though this phantom 10 [TS]

  whatever inch iPad is theoretically the [TS]

  same screen resolution screen resolution [TS]

  is not the same as screen size and [TS]

  that's why you know the iPad Mini is the [TS]

  same resolution as a full-size iPad and [TS]

  by that I mean the nine point seven inch [TS]

  iPad but some people like the nine point [TS]

  seven and some people like the [TS]

  portability of the many and in so [TS]

  I don't think just because this phantom [TS]

  ten-inch I've had one of the same [TS]

  resolution as the iPad mega I don't [TS]

  think that that by default means that [TS]

  the 12-inch iPad just good iPad pro just [TS]

  goes away I think there are people like [TS]

  fatigue II like CGP grey like Mike that [TS]

  want in a a 12 inch iPad pro in their [TS]

  stable of 504 iPads [TS]

  I think the DG will switch better then [TS]

  and remember like 10 10 point whatever [TS]

  is much closer to 12 point 9 the mineus [TS]

  the nine point seven right in terms of [TS]

  area I think I think all those people [TS]

  you listed the teacher just wants to [TS]

  productivity right and I think he might [TS]

  take the size reduction as a win like he [TS]

  just needs to be able to have two [TS]

  full-size things next to each other in [TS]

  blah blah blah he'll get that in a 10.5 [TS]

  like he still has young eyes yeah yeah [TS]

  aside from setting aside the random [TS]

  people that we happen to know market [TS]

  wise the the selling point of a twelve [TS]

  point nine over a ten point something [TS]

  that has the same resolution [TS]

  maybe maybe barbecue made for four [TS]

  artists that you just want a bigger you [TS]

  know a bigger canvas drawn because [TS]

  you're you know physically moving the [TS]

  stylus over the cell height which is [TS]

  again why I argue for an even bigger one [TS]

  but I'm having a hard time thinking of [TS]

  someone outside that that problem domain [TS]

  who would actually prefer a twelve point [TS]

  nine over a ten point something with [TS]

  exactly the same resolution especially [TS]

  if they don't update the twelve point [TS]

  nine s internals and again getting back [TS]